From frankk12 at verizon.net  Sat Jul  2 07:52:15 2011
From: frankk12 at verizon.net (frankk12 at verizon.net)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 09:52:15 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>

Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. My problem
is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does the group recommend
for installing belts? I had preferred to keep the cars original. Older cars
were grandfathered when it came to inspections and belts were not required if
they weren't originally installed. I assume this isn't the case with the new
mandatory law. Is there a set of belts that doesn't seriously compromise the
originality of the cars?

From leylandauto at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  2 08:14:17 2011
From: leylandauto at yahoo.com (Carl French)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 07:14:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <1309616057.94682.YahooMailClassic@web113315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I would first confirm that older cars are no longer exempt. If you are still
required to install them, look at the site below. They carry many of the same
style belts sold the usual suspects but at a much cheaper price. There are a
couple of different mounting styles for the two place, non retractable belts.
Permanent mount or clip in to a mounted eye bolt. Their hardware kits include
large grade 8 backing plates.
http://www.gotbelts.com/?gclid=CLy8kufr4qkCFUTBKgodPR5HXw

Carl French

--- On Sat, 7/2/11, frankk12 at verizon.net <frankk12 at verizon.net> wrote:

From: frankk12 at verizon.net <frankk12 at verizon.net>
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Date: Saturday, July 2, 2011, 9:52 AM

Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. My problem
is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does the group recommend
for installing belts? I had preferred to keep the cars original. Older cars
were grandfathered when it came to inspections and belts were not required if
they weren't originally installed. I assume this isn't the case with the new
mandatory law. Is there a set of belts that doesn't seriously compromise the
originality of the cars?
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/leylandauto at yahoo.com

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul  2 08:29:37 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 15:29:37 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <DEE971F7D7344936A9E103BA22DAB4B1@paul>

Clausager says the MGB at least always had the three mounting points which 
are suitable for lap and diagonal, even though belts fitted by North 
American dealers may have been lap only in the early days.  Originally fixed 
belts, the mountings points can be used for inertias with a suitable bracket 
to mount the reel.  See http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/belts.htm.

Paul;H.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. My 
> problem
> is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does the group 
> recommend
> for installing belts? 

From mgrick at mgcars.org.uk  Sat Jul  2 09:12:05 2011
From: mgrick at mgcars.org.uk (Rick Brown)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 11:12:05 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <B050CE7324DD40708F54E8715DE66A44@RickPC>

 Florida also has a mandatory seat belt law but cars built prior to (i 
think) 63 do not need to fit them.

Rick

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <frankk12 at verizon.net>
To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 9:52
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts


> Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. My 
> problem
> is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does the group 
> recommend
> for installing belts? I had preferred to keep the cars original. Older 
> cars
> were grandfathered when it came to inspections and belts were not required 
> if
> they weren't originally installed. I assume this isn't the case with the 
> new
> mandatory law. Is there a set of belts that doesn't seriously compromise 
> the
> originality of the cars?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgrick at mgcars.org.uk 

From mgrick at mgcars.org.uk  Sat Jul  2 09:16:20 2011
From: mgrick at mgcars.org.uk (Rick Brown)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 11:16:20 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <51B0ACFACF014B89AAABD15A751C6A17@RickPC>

 I just checked the Mass law on line at 
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Section13A
and it states that "(b) any person riding in a motor vehicle manufactured 
before July first, nineteen hundred and sixty-six; " is exempt.

Rick

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <frankk12 at verizon.net>
To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 9:52
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts


> Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. My 
> problem
> is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does the group 
> recommend
> for installing belts? I had preferred to keep the cars original. Older 
> cars
> were grandfathered when it came to inspections and belts were not required 
> if
> they weren't originally installed. I assume this isn't the case with the 
> new
> mandatory law. Is there a set of belts that doesn't seriously compromise 
> the
> originality of the cars?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgrick at mgcars.org.uk 

From lundgren at byu.net  Sat Jul  2 09:16:52 2011
From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 09:16:52 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] =?utf-8?q?Mg_owners_in_utah_county_utah_=3F?=
Message-ID: <6cb127ca-c2e7-4489-9d30-24b437bc70e2@blur>

I am in the process of moving to utah county utah. 

Anyone on the list live in that area or in the salt lake area? 

--
Andrew Lundgren
lundgren at byu.net

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Sat Jul  2 10:05:14 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 12:05:14 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <19a9f8.396ff3c4.3b409bba@aol.com>

Yes, all MGs starting with the MGA Mk 2 had factory installed mounting  
points.
 
Bill
 
In a message dated 02/07/2011 7:54:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk writes:

Clausager says the MGB at least always had the three mounting points  which 
are suitable for lap and diagonal, even though belts fitted by North  
American dealers may have been lap only in the early  days. 

From chillmog at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jul  2 10:26:17 2011
From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:26:17 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <1309616057.94682.YahooMailClassic@web113315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1309616057.94682.YahooMailClassic@web113315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4E0F46A9.4060905@sbcglobal.net>

Carl,
It is going to depend on where you live.  Exemptions vary from state to 
state and country to country.  There are even differences in some 
licensing jurisdictions based on registration types as they allow even 
more exemptions for vehicles registered as historic, antique, special 
interest or whatever.

Charles Hill

   On 7/2/2011 9:14 AM, Carl French wrote:
> I would first confirm that older cars are no longer exempt. If you are still
> required to install them, look at the site below. They carry many of the same
> style belts sold the usual suspects but at a much cheaper price. There are a
> couple of different mounting styles for the two place, non retractable belts.
> Permanent mount or clip in to a mounted eye bolt. Their hardware kits include
> large grade 8 backing plates.
> http://www.gotbelts.com/?gclid=CLy8kufr4qkCFUTBKgodPR5HXw
>
> Carl French

From dave at ranteer.com  Sat Jul  2 10:35:10 2011
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 11:35:10 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <EDA012E5D6FD4AA88AAC445C5C3DB2BA@ranteer.local>

I am going to get on my soap box for just a minute here, please forgive me

1.  at 35 mph a collision is fatal with no seat belts.  is it worth it?
2.  Princess Di would have been 50 yesterday if she had been wearing a seat 
belt.  (fact)
3.  There was a young man, college age, I believe, who railed against seat 
belt laws, blogged widely about it, and refused to wear his.  he was thrown 
from a car and killed

your choice

I'm done.  please don't start a big flame war over this.  just think about 
it and make an informed choice 

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Sat Jul  2 10:35:26 2011
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:35:26 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Mg owners in utah county utah ?
In-Reply-To: <6cb127ca-c2e7-4489-9d30-24b437bc70e2@blur>
References: <6cb127ca-c2e7-4489-9d30-24b437bc70e2@blur>
Message-ID: <621306.38185.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Check out the British Motor Club of Utah:
http://britishmotorclub.org
http://bmcu.drooartz.com

I dunno why the primary domain name doesn't work, as it has current 
registration.  Mark Bradakis must be asleep at the switch.  Hello, Mark?

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude
http://MGAguru.com


At 09:16 AM 7/2/2011 -0600, Andrew B. Lundgren wrote:
>I am in the process of moving to utah county utah.
>
>Anyone on the list live in that area or in the salt lake area?

From awhitema at panix.com  Sat Jul  2 11:06:10 2011
From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 10:06:10 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <EDA012E5D6FD4AA88AAC445C5C3DB2BA@ranteer.local>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<EDA012E5D6FD4AA88AAC445C5C3DB2BA@ranteer.local>
Message-ID: <70FC65D7-34B3-48A2-A1BD-B22D2A3E8243@panix.com>

On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Dave wrote:

> I am going to get on my soap box for just a minute here, please forgive me

Dave beat me to it.

When I bought my '75 B in 2000, the first thing I did was replace the seat
belts.  They weren't even missing, I just didn't like the look of them.

If you need them, you really need them.

--

From leylandauto at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  2 11:22:25 2011
From: leylandauto at yahoo.com (Carl French)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 10:22:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <51B0ACFACF014B89AAABD15A751C6A17@RickPC>
Message-ID: <1309627345.58645.YahooMailClassic@web113309.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Good to hear! Rhode Island is the southernmost county in Mass :-)

--- On Sat, 7/2/11, Rick Brown <mgrick at mgcars.org.uk> wrote:

From: Rick Brown <mgrick at mgcars.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Seat Belts
To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Date: Saturday, July 2, 2011, 11:16 AM

I just checked the Mass law on line at
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Sectio
n13A
and it states that "(b) any person riding in a motor vehicle manufactured
before July first, nineteen hundred and sixty-six; " is exempt.

Rick

----- Original Message ----- From: <frankk12 at verizon.net>
To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 9:52
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts


> Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. My
problem
> is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does the group
recommend
> for installing belts? I had preferred to keep the cars original. Older cars
> were grandfathered when it came to inspections and belts were not required
if
> they weren't originally installed. I assume this isn't the case with the
new
> mandatory law. Is there a set of belts that doesn't seriously compromise
the
> originality of the cars?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgrick at mgcars.org.uk
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/leylandauto at yahoo.com

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Sat Jul  2 11:26:07 2011
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 12:26:07 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Installation of seat belts is originally regulated by federal law, 
and pre-dates federal emissions regulations.  For 1960 model year 
cars were required to have seat belt anchor ponts for the front 
seats.  For 1963 they were required to have front lap belts and 
anchor points for rear seats.  In 1966 they were required to have 
rear lap belts.  In 1968 (or maybe 1969) they were required to have 
shoulder harness for the two outboard front seats, but it was common 
for the shoulder strap to attach separately (and maybe not be used). 
A few years later the law was ammended to require the shoulder strap 
to be permanently attached to the lap belt.

In 1974 for one year only the cars had a pressure sensor in the front 
seats and a seat belt latch sensor and and a seat-belt to ignition 
interlock.  You had to perforn the proper sequence to start the car, 
sit down, buckle up, and then start the engine.  This raised such a 
public outrage that it was changed the following year to require only 
visual and audible warnings (light and buzzer).

Vintage cars should be grandfathered in the law to specificatoins as 
of date of manufacture.  That means MGA would have seat belt anchor 
points in late 1959, but no MGA was ever required to actually have 
seat belts.  It is my understanding that the factory never insalled 
seat belts in any MGA, but dealers would do it it you wanted 
them.  So if your MGA has no seat belts you are exempt.  I have never 
heard of any state law in North America requiring retroactive 
modification contrary to the federal specifications.

However, if you do install seat belts in your MGA, you will be 
required to wear them in many states (including Illinois).  Seat 
belts actually installed but not used is a violation.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude
http://MGAguru.com


At 09:52 AM 7/2/2011 -0400, frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
>Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. 
>My problem is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does 
>the group recommend for installing belts? I had preferred to keep 
>the cars original. Older cars were grandfathered when it came to 
>inspections and belts were not required if they weren't originally 
>installed. I assume this isn't the case with the new mandatory law. 
>Is there a set of belts that doesn't seriously compromise the 
>originality of the cars?

From chillmog at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jul  2 12:46:15 2011
From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 13:46:15 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4E0F6777.7090005@sbcglobal.net>

Barney,
A very good review of the history of US seat belt laws.  I'm not sure if 
it applied to all of the laws but some of them were base on actual year 
of manufacture, not model year.  A very minor point.  I remember when my 
dad bought an early 63 Ford Falcon and I installed the seatbelts that he 
bought at Western Auto.  It took a little searching to find the anchor 
points under the carpet.

Charles Hill


On 7/2/2011 12:26 PM, Barney Gaylord wrote:
> Installation of seat belts is originally regulated by federal law, and 
> pre-dates federal emissions regulations.  For 1960 model year cars 
> were required to have seat belt anchor ponts for the front seats.  For 
> 1963 they were required to have front lap belts and anchor points for 
> rear seats.  In 1966 they were required to have rear lap belts.  In 
> 1968 (or maybe 1969) they were required to have shoulder harness for 
> the two outboard front seats, but it was common for the shoulder strap 
> to attach separately (and maybe not be used). A few years later the 
> law was ammended to require the shoulder strap to be permanently 
> attached to the lap belt.
>
> In 1974 for one year only the cars had a pressure sensor in the front 
> seats and a seat belt latch sensor and and a seat-belt to ignition 
> interlock.  You had to perforn the proper sequence to start the car, 
> sit down, buckle up, and then start the engine.  This raised such a 
> public outrage that it was changed the following year to require only 
> visual and audible warnings (light and buzzer).
>
> Vintage cars should be grandfathered in the law to specificatoins as 
> of date of manufacture.  That means MGA would have seat belt anchor 
> points in late 1959, but no MGA was ever required to actually have 
> seat belts.  It is my understanding that the factory never insalled 
> seat belts in any MGA, but dealers would do it it you wanted them.  So 
> if your MGA has no seat belts you are exempt.  I have never heard of 
> any state law in North America requiring retroactive modification 
> contrary to the federal specifications.
>
> However, if you do install seat belts in your MGA, you will be 
> required to wear them in many states (including Illinois).  Seat belts 
> actually installed but not used is a violation.
>
> Barney Gaylord
> 1958 MGA with an attitude
> http://MGAguru.com
>
>
> At 09:52 AM 7/2/2011 -0400, frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
>> Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. My 
>> problem is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does the 
>> group recommend for installing belts? I had preferred to keep the 
>> cars original. Older cars were grandfathered when it came to 
>> inspections and belts were not required if they weren't originally 
>> installed. I assume this isn't the case with the new mandatory law. 
>> Is there a set of belts that doesn't seriously compromise the 
>> originality of the cars?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/chillmog at sbcglobal.net

From hardt at sonic.net  Sat Jul  2 12:51:28 2011
From: hardt at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:51:28 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4E0F68B0.9090904@sonic.net>

Check out Article 1 sections 9 & 10 of the US Constitution regarding ex
post facto laws and the ability of State or Federal Governments to
impose laws retroactively. If the car never had seat belts, you can't be
forced to install them. If you install them, you must use them in
California and probably most everywhere else.

Ron
58 MGA


Barney Gaylord wrote:
> Installation of seat belts is originally regulated by federal law, and 
> pre-dates federal emissions regulations.  For 1960 model year cars were 
> required to have seat belt anchor ponts for the front seats.  For 1963 
> they were required to have front lap belts and anchor points for rear 
> seats.  In 1966 they were required to have rear lap belts.  In 1968 (or 
> maybe 1969) they were required to have shoulder harness for the two 
> outboard front seats, but it was common for the shoulder strap to attach 
> separately (and maybe not be used). A few years later the law was 
> ammended to require the shoulder strap to be permanently attached to the 
> lap belt.
> 
> In 1974 for one year only the cars had a pressure sensor in the front 
> seats and a seat belt latch sensor and and a seat-belt to ignition 
> interlock.  You had to perforn the proper sequence to start the car, sit 
> down, buckle up, and then start the engine.  This raised such a public 
> outrage that it was changed the following year to require only visual 
> and audible warnings (light and buzzer).
> 
> Vintage cars should be grandfathered in the law to specificatoins as of 
> date of manufacture.  That means MGA would have seat belt anchor points 
> in late 1959, but no MGA was ever required to actually have seat belts.  
> It is my understanding that the factory never insalled seat belts in any 
> MGA, but dealers would do it it you wanted them.  So if your MGA has no 
> seat belts you are exempt.  I have never heard of any state law in North 
> America requiring retroactive modification contrary to the federal 
> specifications.
> 
> However, if you do install seat belts in your MGA, you will be required 
> to wear them in many states (including Illinois).  Seat belts actually 
> installed but not used is a violation.
> 
> Barney Gaylord
> 1958 MGA with an attitude
> http://MGAguru.com
> 
> 
> At 09:52 AM 7/2/2011 -0400, frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
> 
>> Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. My 
>> problem is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does the 
>> group recommend for installing belts? I had preferred to keep the cars 
>> original. Older cars were grandfathered when it came to inspections 
>> and belts were not required if they weren't originally installed. I 
>> assume this isn't the case with the new mandatory law. Is there a set 
>> of belts that doesn't seriously compromise the originality of the cars?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/hardt at sonic.net

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  2 13:09:30 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 12:09:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1309633770.48643.YahooMailClassic@web112120.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 7/2/11, Barney Gaylord <barneymg at mgaguru.com> wrote:

> In 1968
(or
> maybe 1969) they were required to have shoulder harness for
> the two
outboard front seats, but it was common for the
> shoulder strap to attach
separately (and maybe not be used).
> A few years later the law was ammended
to require the
> shoulder strap to be permanently attached to the lap belt.
>
> In 1974 for one year only the cars had a pressure sensor in
> the front
seats and a seat belt latch sensor and and a
> seat-belt to ignition
interlock.  

I think 74 was the year that shoulder harnesses were
attached.
My grandfather had a 73 Cadillac and he'd
get really ticked off at it because
it had a seat belt
buzzer.  If he wanted to back it out of the garage, he'd
grab the belt and wrap it around his left leg to shut
off the buzzer.  All the
time I saw him do that, it was
the belt only - the shoulder harness was tucked
into
the headliner. 

The worst were those ironically-named "passive" seat
belts in the late 80s that would strangle you getting
into and out of the car.
I guess air bags put an end
to those.

From rocknatural at gmail.com  Sat Jul  2 14:02:14 2011
From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:02:14 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <4E0F6777.7090005@sbcglobal.net>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<4E0F6777.7090005@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <4E0F7946.5020501@gmail.com>

On 7/2/2011 1:46 PM, Charles Hill wrote:
> Barney,
> A very good review of the history of US seat belt laws.  I'm not 
> sure if it applied to all of the laws but some of them were base on 
> actual year of manufacture, not model year.  A very minor point.  I 
> remember when my dad bought an early 63 Ford Falcon and I installed 
> the seatbelts that he bought at Western Auto.  It took a little 
> searching to find the anchor points under the carpet.
When I started using seat belts was when I started racing at Mosport and Harewood. Then I installed them in the road cars. I figured that if they were mandatory where we were all going the same direction and all of the drivers were skilled to some extent, I should use them on the road, where most of the drivers were total idiots and the differential speed was often 100 mph or more.

-Rocky Frisco
--

From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com  Sat Jul  2 15:10:08 2011
From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 14:10:08 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <1309633770.48643.YahooMailClassic@web112120.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<1309633770.48643.YahooMailClassic@web112120.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim=ieam9EF1g3P=GbJgPWPfWaAsAA@mail.gmail.com>

The way those sensors and the buzzer was wired meant that they were
disabled by merely disconnecting the sensor under the seat. The car
would start normally with out buzzing.

Simon

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:09 PM, David Breneman
<david_breneman at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- On Sat, 7/2/11, Barney Gaylord <barneymg at mgaguru.com> wrote:
>
>> In 1968
> (or
>> maybe 1969) they were required to have shoulder harness for
>> the two
> outboard front seats, but it was common for the
>> shoulder strap to attach
> separately (and maybe not be used).
>> A few years later the law was ammended
> to require the
>> shoulder strap to be permanently attached to the lap belt.
>>
>> In 1974 for one year only the cars had a pressure sensor in
>> the front
> seats and a seat belt latch sensor and and a
>> seat-belt to ignition
> interlock.
>
> I think 74 was the year that shoulder harnesses were
> attached.
> My grandfather had a 73 Cadillac and he'd
> get really ticked off at it because
> it had a seat belt
> buzzer.  If he wanted to back it out of the garage, he'd
> grab the belt and wrap it around his left leg to shut
> off the buzzer.  All the
> time I saw him do that, it was
> the belt only - the shoulder harness was tucked
> into
> the headliner.
>
> The worst were those ironically-named "passive" seat
> belts in the late 80s that would strangle you getting
> into and out of the car.
> I guess air bags put an end
> to those.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Sat Jul  2 15:41:42 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 07:41:42 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>

OK I'll open up a can of worms here..... why is it that Americans were so
opposed to mandatory wearing of seat belts?  European, Australians, and pretty
well everyone else in the world just accepted it because it was
sensible......

Murray Arundell
Brisbane Australia

On 03/07/2011, at 3:26 AM, Barney Gaylord wrote:

> Installation of seat belts is originally regulated by federal law, and
pre-dates federal emissions regulations.  For 1960 model year cars were
required to have seat belt anchor ponts for the front seats.  For 1963 they
were required to have front lap belts and anchor points for rear seats.  In
1966 they were required to have rear lap belts.  In 1968 (or maybe 1969) they
were required to have shoulder harness for the two outboard front seats, but
it was common for the shoulder strap to attach separately (and maybe not be
used). A few years later the law was ammended to require the shoulder strap to
be permanently attached to the lap belt.
>
> In 1974 for one year only the cars had a pressure sensor in the front seats
and a seat belt latch sensor and and a seat-belt to ignition interlock.  You
had to perforn the proper sequence to start the car, sit down, buckle up, and
then start the engine.  This raised such a public outrage that it was changed
the following year to require only visual and audible warnings (light and
buzzer).
>
> Vintage cars should be grandfathered in the law to specificatoins as of date
of manufacture.  That means MGA would have seat belt anchor points in late
1959, but no MGA was ever required to actually have seat belts.  It is my
understanding that the factory never insalled seat belts in any MGA, but
dealers would do it it you wanted them.  So if your MGA has no seat belts you
are exempt.  I have never heard of any state law in North America requiring
retroactive modification contrary to the federal specifications.
>
> However, if you do install seat belts in your MGA, you will be required to
wear them in many states (including Illinois).  Seat belts actually installed
but not used is a violation.
>
> Barney Gaylord
> 1958 MGA with an attitude
> http://MGAguru.com
>
>
> At 09:52 AM 7/2/2011 -0400, frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
>> Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. My
problem is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does the group
recommend for installing belts? I had preferred to keep the cars original.
Older cars were grandfathered when it came to inspections and belts were not
required if they weren't originally installed. I assume this isn't the case
with the new mandatory law. Is there a set of belts that doesn't seriously
compromise the originality of the cars?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
>







Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au

From lundgren at byu.net  Sat Jul  2 16:07:18 2011
From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 16:07:18 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <d9164b87-da20-45e9-98e9-86cc4743c4dd@blur>

I think it is the idea of a nanny state telling you what to do.  It might be  
best, but it isn't the states place to tell you what to do.

--
Andrew Lundgren
lundgren at byu.net

-----Original message-----
From: Murray Arundell <arundell at ghs.com.au>
To: Barney Gaylord <barneymg at mgaguru.com>
Cc: MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sat, Jul 2, 2011 21:57:07 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Seat Belts

OK I'll open up a can of worms here..... why is it that Americans were so
opposed to mandatory wearing of seat belts?  European, Australians, and  
pretty
well everyone else in the world just accepted it because it was
sensible......

Murray Arundell
Brisbane Australia

On 03/07/2011, at 3:26 AM, Barney Gaylord wrote:

> Installation of seat belts is originally regulated by federal law, and
pre-dates federal emissions regulations.  For 1960 model year cars were
required to have seat belt anchor ponts for the front seats.  For 1963 they
were required to have front lap belts and anchor points for rear seats.  In
1966 they were required to have rear lap belts.  In 1968 (or maybe 1969)  
they
were required to have shoulder harness for the two outboard front seats, but
it was common for the shoulder strap to attach separately (and maybe not be
used). A few years later the law was ammended to require the shoulder strap  
to
be permanently attached to the lap belt.
>
> In 1974 for one year only the cars had a pressure sensor in the front  
seats
and a seat belt latch sensor and and a seat-belt to ignition interlock.  You
had to perforn the proper sequence to start the car, sit down, buckle up,  
and
then start the engine.  This raised such a public outrage that it was  
changed
the following year to require only visual and audible warnings (light and
buzzer).
>
> Vintage cars should be grandfathered in the law to specificatoins as of  
date
of manufacture.  That means MGA would have seat belt anchor points in late
1959, but no MGA was ever required to actually have seat belts.  It is my
understanding that the factory never insalled seat belts in any MGA, but
dealers would do it it you wanted them.  So if your MGA has no seat belts  
you
are exempt.  I have never heard of any state law in North America requiring
retroactive modification contrary to the federal specifications.
>
> However, if you do install seat belts in your MGA, you will be required to
wear them in many states (including Illinois).  Seat belts actually  
installed
but not used is a violation.
>
> Barney Gaylord
> 1958 MGA with an attitude
> http://MGAguru.com
>
>
> At 09:52 AM 7/2/2011 -0400, frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
>> Rhode Island, where I live just enacted a mandatory seat belt law. My
problem is that my MGA and 64 B don't have seat belts. What does the group
recommend for installing belts? I had preferred to keep the cars original.
Older cars were grandfathered when it came to inspections and belts were not
required if they weren't originally installed. I assume this isn't the case
with the new mandatory law. Is there a set of belts that doesn't seriously
compromise the originality of the cars?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
>







Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/lundgren at byu.net

From rocknatural at gmail.com  Sat Jul  2 16:16:46 2011
From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 17:16:46 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <4E0F98CE.6080701@gmail.com>

On 7/2/2011 4:41 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
> OK I'll open up a can of worms here..... why is it that Americans were so
> opposed to mandatory wearing of seat belts?  European, Australians, and pretty
> well everyone else in the world just accepted it because it was
> sensible......
>
> Murray Arundell
> Brisbane Australia
Sensible, yes. Within the proper purview of government, NO! Not wearing seatbelts does not endanger anybody else, only ones self. Americans tend to be opposed to meddling nannies telling us how to live, or at least we used to be.

-Rocky Frisco
--

From chillmog at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jul  2 16:22:39 2011
From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 17:22:39 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <4E0F9A2F.2050509@sbcglobal.net>

Murray,
This is getting in to dangerous territory.  It has nothing to do with 
wearing seat belts but government mandates.  To over-simplify, what 
might be an acceptable law in one country could provoke rebellion in 
another.

Charles Hill

On 7/2/2011 4:41 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
> OK I'll open up a can of worms here..... why is it that Americans were so
> opposed to mandatory wearing of seat belts?  European, Australians, and pretty
> well everyone else in the world just accepted it because it was
> sensible......
>
> Murray Arundell
> Brisbane Australia

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Sat Jul  2 16:33:57 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 18:33:57 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>

So Americans hate being told what to do to the extent that they will even  
ignore the right thing to do just because someone else told them to do it?
 
Seems a bit pig-headed to those of us from other countries, given that  
compliance with a law like that saves millions of dollars in health care every  
year.
 
Imagine what fun it is for us in Canada, living beside a country that has  
the highest per capita number of prison inmates in the world, the highest 
per  capita number of guns, and an attitude that no one can tell them 
anything.....  Kind of like living  next door to a Hell's Angels gang.....
 
Bill
 
In a message dated 02/07/2011 3:25:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lundgren at byu.net writes:

I think  it is the idea of a nanny state telling you what to do.  It might  
be  
best, but it isn't the states place to tell you what to  do.

From lundgren at byu.net  Sat Jul  2 16:34:34 2011
From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 16:34:34 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <EA623C00-BA8D-499D-AB6B-4A2B90EB015B@ghs.com.au>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
	<d9164b87-da20-45e9-98e9-86cc4743c4dd@blur>
	<EA623C00-BA8D-499D-AB6B-4A2B90EB015B@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <6c7be7c8-e09b-44b6-8350-9d726898305b@blur>


[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg]

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  2 16:58:37 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 15:58:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <1309647517.99651.YahooMailClassic@web112119.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 7/2/11, Murray Arundell <arundell at ghs.com.au> wrote:

> OK I'll
open up a can of worms
> here..... why is it that Americans were so
> opposed
to mandatory wearing of seat belts?  European,
> Australians, and pretty
>
well everyone else in the world just accepted it because it
> was
sensible......

After the 1940s, the design idioms of the US and Europe
diverged.  To Europeans, good car design meant that you
were better connected
to the experience of driving.  In
America, good car design meant that you were
isolated
from the experience of driving.  In an American car,
you sat on a
wide living room couch and turned a power-
numbed chrome wheel to make
suggestions to the car
where to go.  Anything that raised the suggestion that
there might be some danger in that activity went against
the design idiom, and
US car makers were loathe to raise
the topic.

In the 1920s, my grandfather
drove a solid-tire oil
truck over corduroy streets and sometimes in two
feet
of snow to make deliveries.  It's not surprising
that after a life like that,
he found the experience
of cruising in a Cadillac Coupe deVille the height of
automotive technology.  But of course, American car
companies didn't give him
anything to compare that with.

He passed away just one year before I bought
my first
car - a 10 year old MGB.  But then, I had been an exchange
student in
Germany so I had seen how fun driving could
really be.

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Sat Jul  2 17:02:06 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 09:02:06 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <4E0F98CE.6080701@gmail.com>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
	<4E0F98CE.6080701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27C696E1-7046-44B0-8207-123B673F4914@ghs.com.au>

The only problem with this concept of unfetted personal freedom and no
intervention by Government is that this works when every citizen approaches
life from a responsible direction.  As we know, this does not happen.  However
to address the notion that failure to wear a seat belt only endangers the
non-wearer demonstrates a complete lack of understand of what happens in a car
crash.......   Imagine you are the driver of a sedan carrying three
passengers, one beside you in the front seat, two in the rear.  You are
wearing a seatbelt, the others are not.  Guess what happens when you crash
into a stationary object at say 30mph.  Your car is wrecked and every body is
killed..... even you wearing the seat belt because you are crushed by 100lbs
of human being smashed into your skull from behind because they were not
restrained.  Now please tell me how the irresponsible decision of the back
seat passenger has not endangered anyone else?  You're Dead and the guy behind
you that has killed you quite likely survived because your body has taken his
impact and stopped him going through the windshield.....

As I said, flawed if not stupid logic.....

Murray Arundell

On 03/07/2011, at 8:16 AM, The Roxter wrote:

> On 7/2/2011 4:41 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
>> OK I'll open up a can of worms here..... why is it that Americans were so
>> opposed to mandatory wearing of seat belts?  European, Australians, and
pretty
>> well everyone else in the world just accepted it because it was
>> sensible......
>>
>> Murray Arundell
>> Brisbane Australia
> Sensible, yes. Within the proper purview of government, NO! Not wearing
seatbelts does not endanger anybody else, only ones self. Americans tend to be
opposed to meddling nannies telling us how to live, or at least we used to
be.
>
> -Rocky Frisco
> --
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
>







Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  2 17:08:07 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 16:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1309648087.50368.YahooMailClassic@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 7/2/11, WSpohn4 at aol.com <WSpohn4 at aol.com> wrote:

> So Americans
hate being told what to
> do to the extent that they will even  
> ignore the
right thing to do just because someone else told
> them to do it?

Not just
"someone" but the government.  There is a firm
conviction amongst most
Americans that the government
exists for the convenience of the people, not
the other 
way around.  The government is an appliance, like a dish
washer or
garbage disposal.  I pay for it to do the things
I don't have the time or
inclination to do, and nothing
more.  I like my refrigerator.  I'm happy to
pay for it's
services.  But I'll be damned if I'm going to let it tell
me what
to do.

> Seems a bit pig-headed to those of us from other countries,
> given
that  
> compliance with a law like that saves millions of dollars
> in health
care every year.

And that's exactly the point.  Government can demand that
you do anything under the excuse that it will save the
government money.  Wear
a seat belt.  Wear a helmet.  Don't
eat fast food.  Turn down your thermostat.
Calisthenics
time, comrade citizen!

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Sat Jul  2 17:12:39 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 09:12:39 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C3AA09C0-5718-4C9E-A246-6B11BC59C3A8@ghs.com.au>

Scary thought that this logic exist in the first place, let alone from a
nation as the USA.  So much intelligence, so little common sense....

Murray

On 03/07/2011, at 8:33 AM, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote:

> So Americans hate being told what to do to the extent that they will even
> ignore the right thing to do just because someone else told them to do it?
>
> Seems a bit pig-headed to those of us from other countries, given that
> compliance with a law like that saves millions of dollars in health care
every
> year.
>
> Imagine what fun it is for us in Canada, living beside a country that has
> the highest per capita number of prison inmates in the world, the highest
> per  capita number of guns, and an attitude that no one can tell them
> anything.....  Kind of like living  next door to a Hell's Angels gang.....
>
> Bill
>
> In a message dated 02/07/2011 3:25:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> lundgren at byu.net writes:
>
> I think  it is the idea of a nanny state telling you what to do.  It might
> be
> best, but it isn't the states place to tell you what to  do.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
>







Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Sat Jul  2 17:34:22 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 18:34:22 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <C3AA09C0-5718-4C9E-A246-6B11BC59C3A8@ghs.com.au>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
	<C3AA09C0-5718-4C9E-A246-6B11BC59C3A8@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <AB71AD6B-2CFF-4557-BD8B-5E214290DDC6@gmail.com>

Can we drop the political talk before it becomes a full fledged flame war?

We Americans will destroy our country our way. You can destroy your country
your way.

On Jul 2, 2011, at 6:12 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:

> Scary thought that this logic exist in the first place, let alone from a
> nation as the USA.  So much intelligence, so little common sense....
>
> Murray
>
> On 03/07/2011, at 8:33 AM, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote:
>
>> So Americans hate being told what to do to the extent that they will even
>> ignore the right thing to do just because someone else told them to do it?
>>
>> Seems a bit pig-headed to those of us from other countries, given that
>> compliance with a law like that saves millions of dollars in health care
> every
>> year.
>>
>> Imagine what fun it is for us in Canada, living beside a country that has
>> the highest per capita number of prison inmates in the world, the highest
>> per  capita number of guns, and an attitude that no one can tell them
>> anything.....  Kind of like living  next door to a Hell's Angels gang.....
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> In a message dated 02/07/2011 3:25:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> lundgren at byu.net writes:
>>
>> I think  it is the idea of a nanny state telling you what to do.  It might
>> be
>> best, but it isn't the states place to tell you what to  do.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Murray G. Arundell
> Managing Director
> GHS Pty Ltd
> Glaziers Hardware Supplies
> Brisbane, Australia
> Phone:  +617 3277 1255
> Fax:      +617 3875 1256
> Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com

From lundgren at byu.net  Sat Jul  2 17:40:50 2011
From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 17:40:50 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <41867812-98B8-4D2C-8541-BB82F78A3AAE@ghs.com.au>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
	<d9164b87-da20-45e9-98e9-86cc4743c4dd@blur>
	<EA623C00-BA8D-499D-AB6B-4A2B90EB015B@ghs.com.au>
	<6c7be7c8-e09b-44b6-8350-9d726898305b@blur>
	<41867812-98B8-4D2C-8541-BB82F78A3AAE@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <da9b86df-482a-4fa0-bee2-6d7d1c5a796a@blur>


[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg]

From don at napanet.net  Sat Jul  2 17:40:34 2011
From: don at napanet.net (Don)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 16:40:34 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <4E0F98CE.6080701@gmail.com>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
	<4E0F98CE.6080701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110702234052.2E324B1107@mail.dsl.napanet.net>

As much as I hate the government meddling in my life in certain ways, 
I don't mind it when I am protected from corporate malfeasance such 
as toxins in my food or pollution in the air I breathe.
Seat belt requirements, like motorcycle helmet laws, not only protect 
the individual, they result in less of a burden on society in general 
as there are less disabled people to deal with.  Same with cigarette 
taxes and warning ads, but with tobacco there is some collateral damage.
However, when you can't even find playground equipment to buy because 
of liability laws, the state has really gone too far.




At 03:16 PM 7/2/2011, The Roxter wrote:
>On 7/2/2011 4:41 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
>>OK I'll open up a can of worms here..... why is it that Americans were so
>>opposed to mandatory wearing of seat belts?  European, Australians, 
>>and pretty
>>well everyone else in the world just accepted it because it was
>>sensible......
>>
>>Murray Arundell
>>Brisbane Australia
>Sensible, yes. Within the proper purview of government, NO! Not 
>wearing seatbelts does not endanger anybody else, only ones self. 
>Americans tend to be opposed to meddling nannies telling us how to 
>live, or at least we used to be.
>
>-Rocky Frisco
>--

From trijagparts at mindspring.com  Sat Jul  2 17:41:37 2011
From: trijagparts at mindspring.com (Brad Wilson)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 18:41:37 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <1309648087.50368.YahooMailClassic@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo .com>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
	<1309648087.50368.YahooMailClassic@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20110702234156.69EE5187674@autox.team.net>

And yet as Americans get ready to celebrate their "freedom" on 
Monday, it is rather ironic that from an MG point of view we 
Canadians get to enjoy the MGF ten years earlier than 
them..........  Bottom line is that there are three branches of 
government in the States, Financial, Petrochemical & 
Pharmaceutical.  Sadly, Canada is all too close to emulating that.

Brad

www.mgfcars.ca

From melfrankus at carolina.rr.com  Sat Jul  2 17:43:20 2011
From: melfrankus at carolina.rr.com (melfrankus at carolina.rr.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 19:43:20 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <20110702234321.ZKRGE.23900.root@cdptpa-web19-z01>

I'm too old and have too much invested in the US ie family and responsibilities.   But if I had known how passionately whacky my fellow citizens on this list are and how wacky our federal gov't has become, I would have moved to Canada or even Australia or NZ 60 years ago. You foreigners need to educate us about common sense. 

All you beer dirnking, white sock wearing psuedo patriots,Bring on your angry rebuttals and no helmet wearing motorcycle redneck responses.  Make sure the guns in the gun rack in your pickup are locked and loaded....Mel  71 mgbgt
---- David Breneman <david_breneman at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> --- On Sat, 7/2/11, WSpohn4 at aol.com <WSpohn4 at aol.com> wrote:
> and how 
> > So Americans
> hate being told what to
> > do to the extent that they will even  
> > ignore the
> right thing to do just because someone else told
> > them to do it?
> 
> Not just
> "someone" but the government.  There is a firm
> conviction amongst most
> Americans that the government
> exists for the convenience of the people, not
> the other 
> way around.  The government is an appliance, like a dish
> washer or
> garbage disposal.  I pay for it to do the things
> I don't have the time or
> inclination to do, and nothing
> more.  I like my refrigerator.  I'm happy to
> pay for it's
> services.  But I'll be damned if I'm going to let it tell
> me what
> to do.
> 
> > Seems a bit pig-headed to those of us from other countries,
> > given
> that  
> > compliance with a law like that saves millions of dollars
> > in health
> care every year.
> 
> And that's exactly the point.  Government can demand that
> you do anything under the excuse that it will save the
> government money.  Wear
> a seat belt.  Wear a helmet.  Don't
> eat fast food.  Turn down your thermostat.
> Calisthenics
> time, comrade citizen!
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/melfrankus at carolina.rr.com

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Sat Jul  2 18:05:07 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 10:05:07 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <20110702234052.2E324B1107@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
	<4E0F98CE.6080701@gmail.com>
	<20110702234052.2E324B1107@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
Message-ID: <4BFFF9AA-B3CE-468A-AD99-5C475CB85276@ghs.com.au>

I agree entirely with you..... this is however one of the things that stagger
me.  The Insurance Companies and Lawyers seem to be able to empty the parks of
playgyms and the like yet they standby and allow people to drive without seat
belts and helmets..... No consistency there.....

On 03/07/2011, at 9:40 AM, Don wrote:

> As much as I hate the government meddling in my life in certain ways, I
don't mind it when I am protected from corporate malfeasance such as toxins in
my food or pollution in the air I breathe.
> Seat belt requirements, like motorcycle helmet laws, not only protect the
individual, they result in less of a burden on society in general as there are
less disabled people to deal with.  Same with cigarette taxes and warning ads,
but with tobacco there is some collateral damage.
> However, when you can't even find playground equipment to buy because of
liability laws, the state has really gone too far.
>
>
>
>
> At 03:16 PM 7/2/2011, The Roxter wrote:
>> On 7/2/2011 4:41 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
>>> OK I'll open up a can of worms here..... why is it that Americans were so
>>> opposed to mandatory wearing of seat belts?  European, Australians, and
pretty
>>> well everyone else in the world just accepted it because it was
>>> sensible......
>>>
>>> Murray Arundell
>>> Brisbane Australia
>> Sensible, yes. Within the proper purview of government, NO! Not wearing
seatbelts does not endanger anybody else, only ones self. Americans tend to be
opposed to meddling nannies telling us how to live, or at least we used to
be.
>>
>> -Rocky Frisco
>> --
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
>







Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au

From d.mckinnie at usa.net  Sat Jul  2 18:06:00 2011
From: d.mckinnie at usa.net (Douglas McKinnie)
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 01:06:00 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <903PgcaFa5952S01.1309651560@web01.cms.usa.net>

Subject: Re: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C at ghs.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>OK I'll open up a can of worms here..... why is it that Americans were so
>opposed to mandatory wearing of seat belts? European, Australians, and
pretty
>well everyone else in the world just accepted it because it was
>sensible......

I regularly drive rural roads in New England that are a pretty close match to
roads I drive in Surrey UK. The US narrow two-lane (single carriageway) with
blind curves and occasional adverse camber are marked 30 or 25 MPH, the rural
Surrey roads are "national speed limit" which is 60 MPH (~100) for that class
of road. I'd never consider driving on a road with tight bends at 60 without
seat belts, but at 30 it would be manageable.

So that is my answer -- the driving style in much of Europe would have you
sliding off the seat without restraints, whereas Americans expect not to
spill
a drop of the coffee from the mug they have placed in the cup-holder.

Douglas
'70 bgt

From mg_garage at comcast.net  Sat Jul  2 18:31:18 2011
From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 20:31:18 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <20110702234156.69EE5187674@autox.team.net>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com><1309648087.50368.YahooMailClassic@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<20110702234156.69EE5187674@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <7D61967E42E04F63B1F088054A06B6A3@stargate>

Oh man, you're bottom line is right on!  I believe the term is plutocracy.
But hey, back to MGs

Gordie


> And yet as Americans get ready to celebrate their "freedom" on 
> Monday, it is rather ironic that from an MG point of view we 
> Canadians get to enjoy the MGF ten years earlier than 
> them..........  Bottom line is that there are three branches of 
> government in the States, Financial, Petrochemical & 
> Pharmaceutical.  Sadly, Canada is all too close to emulating that.
> 
> Brad
> 
> www.mgfcars.ca
> _______________________________________________

From chillmog at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jul  2 18:36:16 2011
From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 19:36:16 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <AB71AD6B-2CFF-4557-BD8B-5E214290DDC6@gmail.com>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
	<C3AA09C0-5718-4C9E-A246-6B11BC59C3A8@ghs.com.au>
	<AB71AD6B-2CFF-4557-BD8B-5E214290DDC6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E0FB980.3060503@sbcglobal.net>

I did a little searching for seat belt statistics.  I had no problem 
with US statistics.  NHTSA and other web sites have all sorts of 
numbers.  One thing that I noticed was that seatbelt use in states that 
have seatbelt use laws was much higher that in those without.  
Information on other countries was rather sparse.  What little I did 
find actually seemed to place USA somewhere in the middle of the pack 
overall with some states rating very highly.  Canada did very well.  One 
list I saw placed them number 1 with 95 percent compliance.  Most of 
what I found was 3 or 4 years old.  Hopefully everyone is doing better 
by now.

Charles Hill



On 7/2/2011 6:34 PM, Paul Root wrote:
> Can we drop the political talk before it becomes a full fledged flame war?
>
> We Americans will destroy our country our way. You can destroy your country
> your way.

From chillmog at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jul  2 19:28:26 2011
From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 20:28:26 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <4BFFF9AA-B3CE-468A-AD99-5C475CB85276@ghs.com.au>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
	<4E0F98CE.6080701@gmail.com>
	<20110702234052.2E324B1107@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
	<4BFFF9AA-B3CE-468A-AD99-5C475CB85276@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <4E0FC5BA.7080808@sbcglobal.net>

Murray,
They are trying.  There is no inconsistency.  The playing fields are 
completely different.  When they decide that something like gyms are 
dangerous and should be banned, they don't have any serious 
competition.  When they start meddling with cars and bikes, they are up 
against some serious political opposition - big auto manufacturers and 
their unions.  And when it comes to belt and helmet use, it is up to the 
legislature on each of the 50 states to pass laws requiring their use.  
They have seat belts and air bags in all cars now.  Which brings up 
another point.   I suspect that there are a lot of people who 
misguidedly think that since they have air bags they don't need to wear 
their seat belts.  I wonder how many of the countries that have high 
seat belt usage also require air bags?

Charles Hill

  On 7/2/2011 7:05 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
> I agree entirely with you..... this is however one of the things that stagger
> me.  The Insurance Companies and Lawyers seem to be able to empty the parks of
> playgyms and the like yet they standby and allow people to drive without seat
> belts and helmets..... No consistency there.....

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  2 19:49:05 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 18:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <1309657745.59452.YahooMailClassic@web112114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 7/2/11, Murray Arundell <arundell at ghs.com.au> wrote:

> What a complete and utter load of crap......

And yet you are the one who turned it from a civilized
exchange of ideas into an ad hominem attack.  Is this
the way you always discuss issues with your friends?
Do you have any?

From guinness at stclegal.com  Sat Jul  2 21:56:47 2011
From: guinness at stclegal.com (Robert J. Guinness)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:56:47 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Rhode Island Seat belts
Message-ID: <4E0FE87F.6020809@stclegal.com>

For those who need the specifics.  The new Rhode Island primary seat 
belt law, H.B. 5449 only applies to vehicles that are required to have 
seat belts under federal law.  ( Gen. Law 31-22-22 (f)(2) & (g)(2)).  
Federal Law requires vehicles built after January 1, 1968 to have seat 
belts.  See National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 (Act), 
80 Stat. 718, 15 U. S. C. '1381 et seq. (recodified without substantive 
change at 49 U. S. C. '30101 et seq.  The implementing regulations are 
found at 49 CFR '571.208.

The new Rhode Island law only changed whether the police could pull a 
driver over for a seat belt violation only without the driver first 
violating another traffic law.  It expires in 2013 unless renewed by the 
legislature.

On a personal viewpoint.  To all those who denigrate lawyers, lawsuits, 
and safety regulations, I recommend that they watch the documentary "Hot 
Coffee".  And please wear your seat belts.  Your family will be glad 
that you did.
-- 
Robert Guinness

From g.schnittke at comcast.net  Sun Jul  3 01:01:51 2011
From: g.schnittke at comcast.net (Glenn Schnittke)
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 02:01:51 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Subject: Re:  Seat Belts
Message-ID: <4E1013DF.1040500@comcast.net>

Murray,et al,

My take is that we Americans don't like being told what to do when most 
of us know what to do already. The marketplace is a magical thing. Given 
the data, a responsible person will choose to wear a belt because there 
is a good chance it will save his life. I myself have have been in a 
small number of accidents on the road and have done some racing. It's 
ingrained in me so much that if I'm moving a car out of the garage to 
another part of the driveway, I will automatically go to latch my belt 
before I start the car. And I would still vote against any politician 
who would try to force me by law to fasten my belt while driving on 
public roads.

We are in the midst of a national 'conversation' ( and I use the term 
loosely ) about just how far the government can go to 'make people 
responsible'. Traditionally, Americans like to be left alone to their 
own decisions and are willing to accept responsibility when they screw 
up. You will notice I prefaced that with "Traditionally". Over the last 
century the sense of responsibility has pretty much gone out the window 
to the point that we are no longer expected to have to live up to a 
mortgage agreement anymore. Some of us still believe in living up to our 
promises and social contracts. And since it is a republic slowly 
devolving onto a democracy, things will start to chance sooner rather 
than later.

And, since this is the MG's list, I must contribute some MG content. I 
drive a '67 MGB to work every day to maintain and restore old cars. I'm 
doing a hell of a lot more for the environment than Al Gore is.

End of rant. Thanks for listening. Donning fire suit.

Glenn

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Sun Jul  3 01:10:01 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 17:10:01 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <20110702234156.69EE5187674@autox.team.net>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
	<1309648087.50368.YahooMailClassic@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<20110702234156.69EE5187674@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <9209C3CB-AF1C-4308-B911-17B0C0AA4AD1@ghs.com.au>

Well said...... its also interesting to note that to some Americans on this
list, freedom of speech is only applicable to those who's opinions they agree
with.

To the clowns who mailed me off list and hurled abuse at me all I can say it
well done and thanks...... I've been thinking for some time now that I spend
too much time on my MG hobby..... You've convinced me that my time would be
better spent not wasting it by participating in this list......  I'm done with
it, and instead am going to drive my cars and associate with people whom have
a real passion for the marque...

Good bye......

Murray Arundell


On 03/07/2011, at 9:41 AM, Brad Wilson wrote:

> And yet as Americans get ready to celebrate their "freedom" on Monday, it is
rather ironic that from an MG point of view we Canadians get to enjoy the MGF
ten years earlier than them..........  Bottom line is that there are three
branches of government in the States, Financial, Petrochemical &
Pharmaceutical.  Sadly, Canada is all too close to emulating that.
>
> Brad
>
> www.mgfcars.ca
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
>







Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au

From don at napanet.net  Sun Jul  3 01:47:08 2011
From: don at napanet.net (Don)
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 00:47:08 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <9209C3CB-AF1C-4308-B911-17B0C0AA4AD1@ghs.com.au>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
	<1309648087.50368.YahooMailClassic@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<20110702234156.69EE5187674@autox.team.net>
	<9209C3CB-AF1C-4308-B911-17B0C0AA4AD1@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <20110703074730.913EEB1B22@mail.dsl.napanet.net>

As an American, I apologize.  I think many Americans have descended 
into being conservative extremist selfish macho warriors.  One of the 
reasons I liked MGs, decades ago and now, was that the hobby seemed 
to attract more sophisticated people than were found in the muscle 
car or hot rod segments of the hobby.  The typical MG owner used to 
be a pipe-smoking college professor who was a liberal and a world 
traveller, more of a thinking person.  This is a generalization, but 
it used to be applicable to a great extent, as most British sports 
car guys were more educated, had professional jobs, were not knuckle 
dragger types.  Maybe that is being too stereotypical.



At 12:10 AM 7/3/2011, you wrote:
>Well said...... its also interesting to note that to some Americans on this
>list, freedom of speech is only applicable to those who's opinions they agree
>with.
>
>To the clowns who mailed me off list and hurled abuse at me all I can say it
>well done and thanks...... I've been thinking for some time now that I spend
>too much time on my MG hobby..... You've convinced me that my time would be
>better spent not wasting it by participating in this list......  I'm done with
>it, and instead am going to drive my cars and associate with people whom have
>a real passion for the marque...
>
>Good bye......
>
>Murray Arundell
>
>
>On 03/07/2011, at 9:41 AM, Brad Wilson wrote:
>
> > And yet as Americans get ready to celebrate their "freedom" on 
> Monday, it is
>rather ironic that from an MG point of view we Canadians get to enjoy the MGF
>ten years earlier than them..........  Bottom line is that there are three
>branches of government in the States, Financial, Petrochemical &
>Pharmaceutical.  Sadly, Canada is all too close to emulating that.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > www.mgfcars.ca
> > _______________________________________________

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Jul  3 08:01:22 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 15:01:22 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
References: <1309647517.99651.YahooMailClassic@web112119.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AC554631842C4446BA9A004535AD248E@paul>

But not any more.  European car driving has been reduced to the level of 
watching TV on said couch/sofa and all the concentration that involves. 
Devices that warn of drifting out of your lane and that put the brakes on if 
you haven't seen the car in front slow down or even worse pull out in front 
of an oncoming vehicle don't help safe driving.

----- Original Message ----- 
> After the 1940s, the design idioms of the US and Europe
> diverged.  To Europeans, good car design meant that you
> were better connected
> to the experience of driving.  In
> America, good car design meant that you were
> isolated
> from the experience of driving.  In an American car,
> you sat on a
> wide living room couch and turned a power-
> numbed chrome wheel to make
> suggestions to the car
> where to go. 

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Jul  3 07:58:14 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 14:58:14 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5EF031E196544AD5A268A3B063C2A065@paul>

I've seen Canada described as "Those nice people living above a biker bar".

----- Original Message ----- 
> Imagine what fun it is for us in Canada, living beside a country that has
> the highest per capita number of prison inmates in the world, the highest
> per  capita number of guns, and an attitude that no one can tell them
> anything.....  Kind of like living  next door to a Hell's Angels gang.....

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Sun Jul  3 08:31:34 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 10:31:34 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <1b568f.78750f0b.3b41d746@aol.com>

Yes - classic Robin Williams I think.
 
In a message dated 03/07/2011 7:19:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk writes:

I've  seen Canada described as "Those nice people living above a biker  
bar".

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  3 08:39:25 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 07:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <AC554631842C4446BA9A004535AD248E@paul>
Message-ID: <1309703965.20559.YahooMailClassic@web112119.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Sun, 7/3/11, Paul Hunt <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> But not
any more.  European car
> driving has been reduced to the level of watching TV
on said
> couch/sofa and all the concentration that involves. Devices
> that
warn of drifting out of your lane and that put the
> brakes on if you haven't
seen the car in front slow down or
> even worse pull out in front of an
oncoming vehicle don't
> help safe driving.

I agree that those devices don't
help make drivers safer,
and they allow idiots to get into much more trouble.
I
don't think there's any electronic doo-dad that will save
your sorry butt if
you cut off a logging truck on the
freeway.

I can see, however, that those
devices (such as adaptive
cruise control and perimeter sonar) can be useful on
US
freeways where the speed limits are typically so slow, and
the volume so
high that sheer boredom easily sets in when
traveling more than a few dozen
miles.  And I know - I
commute 150 miles round-trip to work three times a
week.

Needless to say, I greatly prefer driving in Germany to
driving in the
US.  Being on a highway (or back road)
where your fellow drivers are generally
rational, serious
and competent is a revelation.  There's no trick to driving
a Fiesta or Yaris at over 100 MPH on the Autobahn when the
whole driving
environment is geared towards that.  It's so
damned refreshing, and so
disheartening to return to the
land of lazy, slow, stupid, distracted drivers.
A couple weeks ago, I had someone change lanes into me
(my commuter car, not
my MG), scrape my right-hand mirror,
gun the gas to get ahead of me and keep
going.

"Only in America."

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Jul  3 09:38:01 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 16:38:01 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
References: <1309703965.20559.YahooMailClassic@web112119.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9D17ECCA6DD840109C1A9C142A9269ED@paul>

There's been at least three cases recently where someone has pulled into a 
lane with a truck already in it and ended up being pushed sideways up the 
road in front of the truck.  The most recent I came across was a Stobart 
driver who said it was only when leaning forward to look down and see the 
roof because the truck didn't seem to be pulling very well that he knew 
anything about it.  The frightening thing is that after exchanging details 
the woman in the car continued her journey!  Another woman presenter on 
local radio recounted with no sense of shame or embarrassment that after 
misjudging an oncoming vehicle in a country lane and going into a ditch, she 
managed to extricate it and although the car 'felt funny, I thought it might 
correct itself', she completed the rest of he journey and got out to find 
one tyre flat and smoking.  Her response was to call the breakdown people to 
change the wheel, regardless of what else might have been bent or broken on 
the car.  If we didn't keep these idiots alive, they wouldn't be able to 
procreate and produce more idiots ...

----- Original Message ----- 
> A couple weeks ago, I had someone change lanes into me

From d_dibiase at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  3 11:32:59 2011
From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 10:32:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <AB71AD6B-2CFF-4557-BD8B-5E214290DDC6@gmail.com>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
	<C3AA09C0-5718-4C9E-A246-6B11BC59C3A8@ghs.com.au>
	<AB71AD6B-2CFF-4557-BD8B-5E214290DDC6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1309714379.73550.YahooMailRC@web39413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hear, hear, Paul. Nice time for the non-US contingent to bash the US, on our 
birthday. Thanks, guys.
I don't recall anyone here saying we were perfect. But I guess Canada and 
Australia are. Fortunately, I'm
an American.

 Dan D
Central NJ USA
'76 MGB Tourer
'65 MGB Tourer (Project)
NAMGBR #5-2328 
http://dans65b.blogspot.com/
http://dans76b.blogspot.com/
http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/
http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/
twitter: dandibiase





________________________________
From: Paul Root <ptrmgb at gmail.com>
To: Murray Arundell <arundell at ghs.com.au>
Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
Sent: Sat, July 2, 2011 7:34:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Seat Belts

Can we drop the political talk before it becomes a full fledged flame war?

We Americans will destroy our country our way. You can destroy your country
your way.

On Jul 2, 2011, at 6:12 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:

> Scary thought that this logic exist in the first place, let alone from a
> nation as the USA.  So much intelligence, so little common sense....
>
> Murray
>
> On 03/07/2011, at 8:33 AM, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote:
>
>> So Americans hate being told what to do to the extent that they will even
>> ignore the right thing to do just because someone else told them to do it?
>>
>> Seems a bit pig-headed to those of us from other countries, given that
>> compliance with a law like that saves millions of dollars in health care
> every
>> year.
>>
>> Imagine what fun it is for us in Canada, living beside a country that has
>> the highest per capita number of prison inmates in the world, the highest
>> per  capita number of guns, and an attitude that no one can tell them
>> anything.....  Kind of like living  next door to a Hell's Angels gang.....
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> In a message dated 02/07/2011 3:25:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> lundgren at byu.net writes:
>>
>> I think  it is the idea of a nanny state telling you what to do.  It might
>> be
>> best, but it isn't the states place to tell you what to  do.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Murray G. Arundell
> Managing Director
> GHS Pty Ltd
> Glaziers Hardware Supplies
> Brisbane, Australia
> Phone:  +617 3277 1255
> Fax:      +617 3875 1256
> Email:  arundell at ghs.com.au
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com

From rocknatural at gmail.com  Sun Jul  3 12:01:58 2011
From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter)
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:01:58 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <903PgcaFa5952S01.1309651560@web01.cms.usa.net>
References: <903PgcaFa5952S01.1309651560@web01.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <4E10AE96.4070402@gmail.com>

On 7/2/2011 7:06 PM, Douglas McKinnie wrote:
>
> I regularly drive rural roads in New England that are a pretty close match to
> roads I drive in Surrey UK. The US narrow two-lane (single carriageway) with
> blind curves and occasional adverse camber are marked 30 or 25 MPH, the rural
> Surrey roads are "national speed limit" which is 60 MPH (~100) for that class
> of road. I'd never consider driving on a road with tight bends at 60 without
> seat belts, but at 30 it would be manageable.
>
> So that is my answer -- the driving style in much of Europe would have you
> sliding off the seat without restraints, whereas Americans expect not to
> spill
> a drop of the coffee from the mug they have placed in the cup-holder.
I found it terrifying to ride in the UK with a UK driver on those lanes. The hedge is right next to the road, so there's no visibility around the curves. I asked why this was so and was told that the hedges are protected because of the wee bunnies and hedgehogs needing them. Here in Murkia, there's at least a 50-foot "right-of-way" so you can see around the bends. We don't care that much about the bunnies and we don't have hedgehogs.

-Rocky Frisco
--

From timfboston at aol.com  Sun Jul  3 12:07:07 2011
From: timfboston at aol.com (timfboston at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 14:07:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <9D17ECCA6DD840109C1A9C142A9269ED@paul>
References: <1309703965.20559.YahooMailClassic@web112119.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<9D17ECCA6DD840109C1A9C142A9269ED@paul>
Message-ID: <8CE07C3280FDF00-1A80-4D008@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com>

"Man dies after motorcycle crashes during helmet protest ride"


http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story/Man-dies-after-motorcycle-crashes-durin
g-helmet/3hjcjSPXsUCsrtyM9cBn0g.cspx





-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Hunt <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: David Breneman <david_breneman at yahoo.com>; mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Jul 3, 2011 12:16 pm
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Seat Belts


There's been at least three cases recently where someone has pulled into a
ane with a truck already in it and ended up being pushed sideways up the
oad in front of the truck.  The most recent I came across was a Stobart
river who said it was only when leaning forward to look down and see the
oof because the truck didn't seem to be pulling very well that he knew
nything about it.  The frightening thing is that after exchanging details
he woman in the car continued her journey!  Another woman presenter on
ocal radio recounted with no sense of shame or embarrassment that after
isjudging an oncoming vehicle in a country lane and going into a ditch, she
anaged to extricate it and although the car 'felt funny, I thought it might
orrect itself', she completed the rest of he journey and got out to find
ne tyre flat and smoking.  Her response was to call the breakdown people to
hange the wheel, regardless of what else might have been bent or broken on
he car.  If we didn't keep these idiots alive, they wouldn't be able to
rocreate and produce more idiots ...
----- Original Message -----
 A couple weeks ago, I had someone change lanes into me
______________________________________________
Mgs at autox.team.net
onate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
uggested annual donation  $12.75
rchive: http://www.team.net/archive
orums: http://www.team.net/forums
nsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/timfboston at aol.com

From rocknatural at gmail.com  Sun Jul  3 12:09:01 2011
From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter)
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:09:01 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <20110702234052.2E324B1107@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
	<4E0F98CE.6080701@gmail.com>
	<20110702234052.2E324B1107@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
Message-ID: <4E10B03D.6040508@gmail.com>

On 7/2/2011 6:40 PM, Don wrote:
> As much as I hate the government meddling in my life in certain 
> ways, I don't mind it when I am protected from corporate malfeasance 
> such as toxins in my food or pollution in the air I breathe.
> Seat belt requirements, like motorcycle helmet laws, not only 
> protect the individual, they result in less of a burden on society 
> in general as there are less disabled people to deal with.  Same 
> with cigarette taxes and warning ads, but with tobacco there is some 
> collateral damage.
> However, when you can't even find playground equipment to buy 
> because of liability laws, the state has really gone too far.
The real truth about the government protecting us from corporate poisoning is that they don't really do that. There is a federal law against any food company labeling food, stating that it does not contain genetically modified material. If you want to avoid "Frankenfoods," the government doesn't want you to. As far as the government protecting you from pollution, did you know that the US Military is exempt from all those laws? The military uses more CFC's than any other entity and they are allowed to vent refrigerant to the air. If I did that I could be fined $50,000 and go the the federal pen for ten years.

-Rocky Frisco
--

From rocknatural at gmail.com  Sun Jul  3 12:13:43 2011
From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter)
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:13:43 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <27C696E1-7046-44B0-8207-123B673F4914@ghs.com.au>
References: <00143ED9DF914E2084CB187EED4C9B22@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<984687.11286.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<2886A225-D7BB-43BC-B97C-A14191E71C8C@ghs.com.au>
	<4E0F98CE.6080701@gmail.com>
	<27C696E1-7046-44B0-8207-123B673F4914@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <4E10B157.20705@gmail.com>

On 7/2/2011 6:02 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
> The only problem with this concept of unfetted personal freedom and 
> no intervention by Government is that this works when every citizen 
> approaches life from a responsible direction.  As we know, this does 
> not happen.  However to address the notion that failure to wear a 
> seat belt only endangers the non-wearer demonstrates a complete lack 
> of understand of what happens in a car crash.......   Imagine you 
> are the driver of a sedan carrying three passengers, one beside you 
> in the front seat, two in the rear.  You are wearing a seatbelt, the 
> others are not.  Guess what happens when you crash into a stationary 
> object at say 30mph.  Your car is wrecked and every body is 
> killed..... even you wearing the seat belt because you are crushed 
> by 100lbs of human being smashed into your skull from behind because 
> they were not restrained.  Now please tell me how the irresponsible 
> decision of the back seat passenger has not endangered anyone else? 
>  You're Dead and the guy behind you that has killed you quite likely 
> survived because your body has taken his impact and stopped him 
> going through the windshield.....
>
> As I said, flawed if not stupid logic.....
>
> Murray Arundell
You don't approve of Darwin awards?

BTW, there's no back seat in my MG.

-Rocky Frisco
--

From barrie at look.ca  Sun Jul  3 10:41:59 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 12:41:59 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <AB71AD6B-2CFF-4557-BD8B-5E214290DDC6@gmail.com>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
	<C3AA09C0-5718-4C9E-A246-6B11BC59C3A8@ghs.com.au>
	<AB71AD6B-2CFF-4557-BD8B-5E214290DDC6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1QdSrL-0006Om-Le@epsilon.look.ca>

Yes, leave the Americans alone!  After all they don't go destroying 
other countries' forests, mineral rich countryside, lakes, seas, 
deserts, icy places, and such:-)


At 07:34 PM 7/2/2011, Paul Root wrote:
>Can we drop the political talk before it becomes a full fledged flame war?
>
>We Americans will destroy our country our way. You can destroy your country
>your way.
>
>On Jul 2, 2011, at 6:12 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
>
> > Scary thought that this logic exist in the first place, let alone from a
> > nation as the USA.  So much intelligence, so little common sense....
> >
> > Murray
> >
> > On 03/07/2011, at 8:33 AM, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> So Americans hate being told what to do to the extent that they will even
> >> ignore the right thing to do just because someone else told them to do it?
> >>
> >> Seems a bit pig-headed to those of us from other countries, given that
> >> compliance with a law like that saves millions of dollars in health care
> > every
> >> year.
> >>
> >> Imagine what fun it is for us in Canada, living beside a country that has
> >> the highest per capita number of prison inmates in the world, the highest
> >> per  capita number of guns, and an attitude that no one can tell them
> >> anything.....  Kind of like living  next door to a Hell's Angels gang.....
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> In a message dated 02/07/2011 3:25:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> >> lundgren at byu.net writes:
> >>
> >> I think  it is the idea of a nanny state telling you what to do.  It might
> >> be
> >> best, but it isn't the states place to tell you what to  do.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Mgs at autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Murray G. Arundell
> > Managing Director
> > GHS Pty Ltd
> > Glaziers Hardware Supplies
> > Brisbane, Australia
> > Phone:  +617 3277 1255
> > Fax:      +617 3875 1256
> > Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From awhitema at panix.com  Sun Jul  3 14:47:15 2011
From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 13:47:15 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <E1QdSrL-0006Om-Le@epsilon.look.ca>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
	<C3AA09C0-5718-4C9E-A246-6B11BC59C3A8@ghs.com.au>
	<AB71AD6B-2CFF-4557-BD8B-5E214290DDC6@gmail.com>
	<E1QdSrL-0006Om-Le@epsilon.look.ca>
Message-ID: <4D78F4A6-C4F1-473D-AF10-0993735DE0F9@panix.com>

On Jul 3, 2011, at 9:41 AM, Barrie Robinson wrote:

> Yes, leave the Americans alone!  After all they don't go destroying other
countries' forests, mineral rich countryside, lakes, seas, deserts, icy
places, and such:-)

OK guys, seriously.

Can we at least get back to talking about Seat Belts?

F'instance, does the relatively recently introduced "Retractable Seat Belt
Kit" ('specially engineered kit, not a generic replacement') work
significantly better than the generic kit?  Since I've installed the belt
guides that attach to the headrest, the balky belt has been less so, but
passengers still bitch about them being difficult to put on.

--

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Sun Jul  3 14:51:44 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 06:51:44 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <1309714379.73550.YahooMailRC@web39413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com>
	<C3AA09C0-5718-4C9E-A246-6B11BC59C3A8@ghs.com.au>
	<AB71AD6B-2CFF-4557-BD8B-5E214290DDC6@gmail.com>
	<1309714379.73550.YahooMailRC@web39413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D409BA15-8434-4AE6-A1F0-F7A1D82860FD@ghs.com.au>

Oh please.....

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to your knowledge of the world and name the
birthdays of Canada UK Aus NZ and European countries.....

When will you guys get it?   Most of the world lies beyond your northern and
southern boarders as well as your left and right coasts.....  But then what
can you say about a mob that has a "World Series" sporting competition where
only American teams complete.....

Enjoy your holiday.....

On 04/07/2011, at 3:32 AM, Dan DiBiase wrote:

> Hear, hear, Paul. Nice time for the non-US contingent to bash the US, on our
birthday. Thanks, guys.
> I don't recall anyone here saying we were perfect. But I guess Canada and
Australia are. Fortunately, I'm
> an American.
>
> Dan D
> Central NJ USA
> '76 MGB Tourer
> '65 MGB Tourer (Project)
> NAMGBR #5-2328
> http://dans65b.blogspot.com/
> http://dans76b.blogspot.com/
> http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/
> http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/
> twitter: dandibiase
>
>
> From: Paul Root <ptrmgb at gmail.com>
> To: Murray Arundell <arundell at ghs.com.au>
> Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
> Sent: Sat, July 2, 2011 7:34:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Seat Belts
>
> Can we drop the political talk before it becomes a full fledged flame war?
>
> We Americans will destroy our country our way. You can destroy your country
> your way.
>
> On Jul 2, 2011, at 6:12 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
>
> > Scary thought that this logic exist in the first place, let alone from a
> > nation as the USA.  So much intelligence, so little common sense....
> >
> > Murray
> >
> > On 03/07/2011, at 8:33 AM, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> So Americans hate being told what to do to the extent that they will
even
> >> ignore the right thing to do just because someone else told them to do
it?
> >>
> >> Seems a bit pig-headed to those of us from other countries, given that
> >> compliance with a law like that saves millions of dollars in health care
> > every
> >> year.
> >>
> >> Imagine what fun it is for us in Canada, living beside a country that
has
> >> the highest per capita number of prison inmates in the world, the
highest
> >> per  capita number of guns, and an attitude that no one can tell them
> >> anything.....  Kind of like living  next door to a Hell's Angels
gang.....
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> In a message dated 02/07/2011 3:25:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> >> lundgren at byu.net writes:
> >>
> >> I think  it is the idea of a nanny state telling you what to do.  It
might
> >> be
> >> best, but it isn't the states place to tell you what to  do.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Mgs at autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> >> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Murray G. Arundell
> > Managing Director
> > GHS Pty Ltd
> > Glaziers Hardware Supplies
> > Brisbane, Australia
> > Phone:  +617 3277 1255
> > Fax:      +617 3875 1256
> > Email:  arundell at ghs.com.au
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com







Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au

From g.schnittke at comcast.net  Sun Jul  3 16:39:38 2011
From: g.schnittke at comcast.net (Glenn Schnittke)
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 17:39:38 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <4E10EFAA.30104@comcast.net>

> From: Don<don at napanet.net>
> To:mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
> Message-ID:<20110703074730.913EEB1B22 at mail.dsl.napanet.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> As an American, I apologize.  I think many Americans have descended
> into being conservative extremist selfish macho warriors.  One of the
> reasons I liked MGs, decades ago and now, was that the hobby seemed
> to attract more sophisticated people than were found in the muscle
> car or hot rod segments of the hobby.  The typical MG owner used to
> be a pipe-smoking college professor who was a liberal and a world
> traveller, more of a thinking person.  This is a generalization, but
> it used to be applicable to a great extent, as most British sports
> car guys were more educated, had professional jobs, were not knuckle
> dragger types.  Maybe that is being too stereotypical.

By half. My, but we are full of ourselves, aren't we? What have you got 
in that pipe?

As an American, I don't apologize for anything. If it wasn't for us the 
world would be in much sadder shape today - politics, technology, 
economics, society, ecology; take your pick of issues. Our short history 
has improved the world immensely. I stand by that.

I suggest that if it wasn't for our markets, the British auto industry 
would probably have collapsed much sooner than it did and what marques 
are left would be gone and not just owned by the Chinese or Indians. 
There's the obligatory MG content and that's open to a new thread. And 
it's the knuckle draggers that are keeping the vintage car industry 
alive. Someone has to restore and maintain them and it's difficult to do 
with a pipe in your mouth and your finger up.



Glenn

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Sun Jul  3 17:08:15 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 19:08:15 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <55ce.7c9a595b.3b42505f@aol.com>

I don't think we are getting anywhere and it is no doubt time to drop it  
and get back to cars.
 
I have never seen one of these discussions change any minds. The Americans  
are usually sure they are right and ignore what the rest of the world says, 
 assuming they have to be wrong.  That sort of intransigence doesn't foster 
 debate, just bitterness, which seems to be where we are headed.

 
At least with cars we have a chance of some sort of general  consensus!
 
Bill
 
In a message dated 03/07/2011 4:02:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
g.schnittke at comcast.net writes:

By half.  My, but we are full of ourselves, aren't we? What have you got 
in that  pipe?

From dave at ranteer.com  Sun Jul  3 17:13:05 2011
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 18:13:05 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <4D78F4A6-C4F1-473D-AF10-0993735DE0F9@panix.com>
References: <1a2ed7.40d4d527.3b40f6d5@aol.com><C3AA09C0-5718-4C9E-A246-6B11BC59C3A8@ghs.com.au><AB71AD6B-2CFF-4557-BD8B-5E214290DDC6@gmail.com><E1QdSrL-0006Om-Le@epsilon.look.ca>
	<4D78F4A6-C4F1-473D-AF10-0993735DE0F9@panix.com>
Message-ID: <013D90AD4F1F45ACBC57B37556A6FE28@ranteer.local>

I think you have a choice - the belts I put in my td are a pain to adjust, 
but they look great and somewhat vintage.  I prefer that to a more modern 
looking (read plastic) buckle.  after all <grin> nothing on that car is 
easy.  why should the seat belts be?

OK, the smiles when I'm driving it are easy . . . . .


> OK guys, seriously.
>
> Can we at least get back to talking about Seat Belts?
>
> F'instance, does the relatively recently introduced "Retractable Seat Belt
> Kit" ('specially engineered kit, not a generic replacement') work
> significantly better than the generic kit?  Since I've installed the belt
> guides that attach to the headrest, the balky belt has been less so, but
> passengers still bitch about them being difficult to put on.

From mark at bradakis.com  Sun Jul  3 17:52:17 2011
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 17:52:17 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Enough already
Message-ID: <4E1100B1.1010003@bradakis.com>

I don't normally do this, but mgs at autox.team.net is now a
moderated list.  Each and every post will have to be approved
by me.

If you wish to rant and roar about stuff that is not related to MGs,
I suggest you subscribe to the-local at autox.team.net.  You can vent
to your heart's content there without annoying folks who assumed
the MG list was for discussion of MGs.

http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/the-local

Actually I hope the link works, still having troubles with the old
version of software and have not gotten the new, updated server
on line yet.  If everyone on the list used the donate link below to
send me 14.95 I could take some time off from my day job and devote
it to getting Team.Net stuff done.  But that ain't gonna happen.

Anyway, this should be just a minor inconvenience for a day or two
while the furor dies dies down, sorry for the trouble.

mjb, frazzled list admin.

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Sun Jul  3 18:59:12 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 19:59:12 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Enough already
In-Reply-To: <4E1100B1.1010003@bradakis.com>
References: <4E1100B1.1010003@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <4E111060.4000707@gmail.com>

Thanks for all you do, Mark.

I've put in my (probably past due) donation.

I'm sorry we children can keep a civil list.

Paul.



Mark J Bradakis wrote:
> I don't normally do this, but mgs at autox.team.net is now a
> moderated list.  Each and every post will have to be approved
> by me.

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  3 20:51:27 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 22:51:27 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Enough already
In-Reply-To: <4E1100B1.1010003@bradakis.com>
References: <4E1100B1.1010003@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W6E6906C57FA580F3EA108B75C0@phx.gbl>

Thank you.  I unsubscribed from the spridget list a few months ago because of
similar idiocy.
I'm here for MG talk, not to wade through the global/political bickering of
rude children.
It just so happens I'm installing seatbelts this weekend.  Foolishly, I had
hoped to learn something useful when I saw the subject line.

-Mike Eldred
1954 MG TF
1973 Midget


> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 17:52:17 -0600
> From: mark at bradakis.com
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Mgs] Enough already
>
> I don't normally do this, but mgs at autox.team.net is now a
> moderated list. Each and every post will have to be approved
> by me.
>
> If you wish to rant and roar about stuff that is not related to MGs,
> I suggest you subscribe to the-local at autox.team.net. You can vent
> to your heart's content there without annoying folks who assumed
> the MG list was for discussion of MGs.
>
> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/the-local
>
> Actually I hope the link works, still having troubles with the old
> version of software and have not gotten the new, updated server
> on line yet. If everyone on the list used the donate link below to
> send me 14.95 I could take some time off from my day job and devote
> it to getting Team.Net stuff done. But that ain't gonna happen.
>
> Anyway, this should be just a minor inconvenience for a day or two
> while the furor dies dies down, sorry for the trouble.
>
> mjb, frazzled list admin.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jul  4 01:57:55 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 08:57:55 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
References: <903PgcaFa5952S01.1309651560@web01.cms.usa.net>
	<4E10AE96.4070402@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <02BF58E4CFFA4DFFBF075A2DED9AAAA3@paul>

We (most of us anyway) drive at such a speed that our stopping distance is 
within our seeing distance.  'Course if the other person doesn't ...

----- Original Message ----- 
> I found it terrifying to ride in the UK with a UK driver on those lanes. 
> The hedge is right next to the road, so there's no visibility around the 
> curves. 

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Mon Jul  4 10:12:45 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:12:45 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
Message-ID: <29b7c.66934507.3b43407d@aol.com>

Sad thing is that many people have become incredibly sloppy in their  
driving habits. I have seen many times a person backing out onto a main road  
where they can't see and seem to be content to delegate responsibility for  
stopping to anyone coming along. I have seen people merging onto main highways  
assuming that they will be let in, presumably because they feel they have a 
God  given right to a place in line and don't have to wait for one, as 
people should  give way to them.
 
Of course when the people coming along share the same attitudes, the  
results are often expensive in terms of bent metal and possibly bodies!
 
One of the necessary additions to anyone driving a small car seems to be a  
very loud horn!
 
Bill
 
 
In a message dated 7/4/2011 9:00:28 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk writes:

We (most  of us anyway) drive at such a speed that our stopping distance is 
within  our seeing distance.  'Course if the other person doesn't  ...

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Mon Jul  4 18:41:02 2011
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 20:41:02 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Seat Belts
In-Reply-To: <903PgcaFa5952S01.1309651560@web01.cms.usa.net>
References: <903PgcaFa5952S01.1309651560@web01.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <010a01cc3aac$379a8080$a6cf8180$@com>

A little late on the topic this weekend,
I grew up in West Virginia with a lot of fun mountain roads to drive.
I noticed it was easier to let the seat belt hold my rear in position when
driving with my boot down.
That gave me a big advantage over my fellow road racers.
Then I grew up a bit and realized racing on public roads wasn't the
brightest thing I had ever done.
However, I have always worn seat belts.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK


-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Douglas McKinnie
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 8:06 PM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Seat Belts

I regularly drive rural roads in New England that are a pretty close match
to
roads I drive in Surrey UK. The US narrow two-lane (single carriageway) with
blind curves and occasional adverse camber are marked 30 or 25 MPH, the
rural
Surrey roads are "national speed limit" which is 60 MPH (~100) for that
class
of road. I'd never consider driving on a road with tight bends at 60 without
seat belts, but at 30 it would be manageable.

From frankk12 at verizon.net  Wed Jul  6 13:53:15 2011
From: frankk12 at verizon.net (frankk12 at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 15:53:15 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Switch
Message-ID: <E18022941FCD4B91B9A55152AFC6F5E8@frankdcczr6l6k>

The ignition switch on my 1980 LE is just about ready to fail and strand me.
The key is barely able to turn it to start despite my attempts to inject
various lubricants. I know it isn't the key because it acts the same
regardless of which of my spare keys I try and some of them are like new. Is
it possible to get the swicth rebuilt so I can continue to use my original
keys? Will a local locksmith be able to rebuild it?  Has anyone here
accomplished that or do I have to replace it and get new keys?
Frank Krajewski

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  6 14:20:10 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 16:20:10 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Switch
In-Reply-To: <E18022941FCD4B91B9A55152AFC6F5E8@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <E18022941FCD4B91B9A55152AFC6F5E8@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W5134AE610C70B4E2EE27A0B75E0@phx.gbl>

Frank,
A competent local locksmith should be able to rebuild it, or you can buy a new
switch from one of the suppliers.

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to carefully disassemble and rebuild one of
the older ignition switches, but I wouldn't pull one of the later switches
apart myself.

-Mike Eldred


> From: frankk12 at verizon.net
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 15:53:15 -0400
> Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Switch
>
> The ignition switch on my 1980 LE is just about ready to fail and strand
me.
> The key is barely able to turn it to start despite my attempts to inject
> various lubricants. I know it isn't the key because it acts the same
> regardless of which of my spare keys I try and some of them are like new.
Is
> it possible to get the swicth rebuilt so I can continue to use my original
> keys? Will a local locksmith be able to rebuild it? Has anyone here
> accomplished that or do I have to replace it and get new keys?
> Frank Krajewski
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From mike at sportscarslimited.net  Wed Jul  6 14:46:28 2011
From: mike at sportscarslimited.net (Michael Singleton)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 13:46:28 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Switch
In-Reply-To: <E18022941FCD4B91B9A55152AFC6F5E8@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <E18022941FCD4B91B9A55152AFC6F5E8@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <CFDF6BE7F1A74F27B84AA0C48F5ECAD1@scloffice>

New locksets come with new keys. The ignition key only fits the ignition,
trunk, doors and glove box (when fitted) use their own key.


Michael Singleton
Sportscars Ltd
10170 Croydon Way
Suite M
Sacramento, CA 95826
 
(916)366-0330
mike at sportscarslimited.net
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of frankk12 at verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 12:53 PM
To: MG List
Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Switch

The ignition switch on my 1980 LE is just about ready to fail and strand me.
The key is barely able to turn it to start despite my attempts to inject
various lubricants. I know it isn't the key because it acts the same
regardless of which of my spare keys I try and some of them are like new. Is
it possible to get the swicth rebuilt so I can continue to use my original
keys? Will a local locksmith be able to rebuild it?  Has anyone here
accomplished that or do I have to replace it and get new keys?
Frank Krajewski
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mike at sportscarslimited.net

From dwoerpel at wi.net  Wed Jul  6 18:23:05 2011
From: dwoerpel at wi.net (dwoerpel at wi.net)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 19:23:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Switch
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-W5134AE610C70B4E2EE27A0B75E0@phx.gbl>
References: <E18022941FCD4B91B9A55152AFC6F5E8@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<SNT124-W5134AE610C70B4E2EE27A0B75E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <52853.173.109.203.139.1309998185.squirrel@wm.wi.net>

Just for kicks, visit Barney Gaylord's sight and look at the MGA ignition
switch.  Gives you an idea what's involved with a "simple" switch.

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et124.htm

I found an NOS one for the MGA.

Dave W.

MGA 1500



> Frank,
> A competent local locksmith should be able to rebuild it, or you can buy a
> new
> switch from one of the suppliers.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to carefully disassemble and rebuild one
> of
> the older ignition switches, but I wouldn't pull one of the later switches
> apart myself.
>
> -Mike Eldred
>
>
>> From: frankk12 at verizon.net
>> To: mgs at autox.team.net
>> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 15:53:15 -0400
>> Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Switch
>>
>> The ignition switch on my 1980 LE is just about ready to fail and strand
> me.
>> The key is barely able to turn it to start despite my attempts to inject
>> various lubricants. I know it isn't the key because it acts the same
>> regardless of which of my spare keys I try and some of them are like
>> new.
> Is
>> it possible to get the swicth rebuilt so I can continue to use my
>> original
>> keys? Will a local locksmith be able to rebuild it? Has anyone here
>> accomplished that or do I have to replace it and get new keys?
>> Frank Krajewski
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/dwoerpel at wi.net

From lincman90 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  6 20:41:54 2011
From: lincman90 at hotmail.com (Tom Daughdrill)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 21:41:54 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Switch
In-Reply-To: <E18022941FCD4B91B9A55152AFC6F5E8@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <E18022941FCD4B91B9A55152AFC6F5E8@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <BLU146-W2155E162E10F093D7581ECAC410@phx.gbl>

A new assembly is $100 or less, and is easy to replace.  Get new stuff, and
put the worries behind you!




>
> The ignition switch on my 1980 LE is just about ready to fail and strand
me.
> The key is barely able to turn it to start despite my attempts to inject
> various lubricants. I know it isn't the key because it acts the same
> regardless of which of my spare keys I try and some of them are like new.
Is
> it possible to get the swicth rebuilt so I can continue to use my original
> keys? Will a local locksmith be able to rebuild it? Has anyone here
> accomplished that or do I have to replace it and get new keys?
> Frank Krajewski

From mark at bradakis.com  Wed Jul  6 20:47:32 2011
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:47:32 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Well, gosh
Message-ID: <4E151E44.10200@bradakis.com>

I guess my "Enough already" message scared everyone off, no traffic to 
speak of on the list.

In general I don't worry too much about list content, what is off topic 
and what isn't.  If
you subscribe to the Spridgets list you know that for sure.  The seat 
belt thing was just
getting a bit too mean-spirited and personal.

Now that you've all had a chance to sit back, relax and catch your 
breath perhaps we
can get back to talking about cars and how they influence our lives.  
Well, if Qwest
comes through - they will be "upgrading" the Team.Net DSL service 
sometime in the
next 24 hours.  No problem, unless they screw it up and we are off the 
air for days.

We shall see.

mjb.

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul  7 01:54:02 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 08:54:02 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Switch
References: <E18022941FCD4B91B9A55152AFC6F5E8@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <D405EECBF6274A02A6271C7E0D4908EB@paul>

The lock and the switch are usually held together with a little grub-screw, 
so you should be able to work out if it is the switch or the lock that are 
causing the problem.  However the only lubricant that should be used in the 
lock is powdered graphite, liquid lubricants will attract dust and cause 
jamming.  New locks come with keys, and the ignition keys only operate that 
lock and switch (in the UK at least) so unless you are particularly attached 
to the original key that shouldn't be an issue.  If the locks are anything 
like the door locks it may also be possible to swap the unique bits over 
from one lock to another and so use the original key, but bear in mind the 
innards may be different even though the assembly is compatible with your 
column, and you may just transfer the problem to the new lock.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> The ignition switch on my 1980 LE is just about ready to fail and strand 
> me.
> The key is barely able to turn it to start despite my attempts to inject
> various lubricants. 

From lincman90 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  8 08:56:47 2011
From: lincman90 at hotmail.com (Tom Daughdrill)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:56:47 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Switch
In-Reply-To: <D249535DAA8A4EDEADA63BCC324C4F48@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <E18022941FCD4B91B9A55152AFC6F5E8@frankdcczr6l6k>,
	<BLU146-W2155E162E10F093D7581ECAC410@phx.gbl>,
	<D249535DAA8A4EDEADA63BCC324C4F48@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <BLU146-W16850FE8A5B68120740B03AC400@phx.gbl>

I think I saw one recently for around $100 from BP Northwest.  I bought one
from them recently, and it was Lucas NOS.




> Tom: Where can you get a new assembly for under $100? Moss is asking
> $134.95.
> Frank
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Daughdrill" <lincman90 at hotmail.com>
> To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Ignition Switch
>
>
> >A new assembly is $100 or less, and is easy to replace. Get new stuff, and
> > put the worries behind you!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> The ignition switch on my 1980 LE is just about ready to fail and strand
> > me.
> >> The key is barely able to turn it to start despite my attempts to inject
> >> various lubricants. I know it isn't the key because it acts the same
> >> regardless of which of my spare keys I try and some of them are like
new.
> > Is
> >> it possible to get the swicth rebuilt so I can continue to use my
> >> original
> >> keys? Will a local locksmith be able to rebuild it? Has anyone here
> >> accomplished that or do I have to replace it and get new keys?
> >> Frank Krajewski
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe:
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/frankk12 at verizon.net

From bobmgtd at comcast.net  Fri Jul  8 09:50:39 2011
From: bobmgtd at comcast.net (Bob Donahue)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:50:39 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] How to change clutch hose on a '71 MGB?
Message-ID: <871B80340252425BB7E2FEE3DA68D477@yourmb2swywknr>

What does it take to change the clutch hose on a '71 MGB? Can it be done
without removing the starter? (Hopefully not the engine!)

Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s)
Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net
Cars:       52 MGTD - #17639
               71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361
Member:  NEMGTR #11470
               NAMGBR # 7-3336
               Hoosier MGB Club
               Olde Octagons of Indiana

From mgbob at juno.com  Fri Jul  8 11:23:17 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:23:17 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] How to change clutch hose on a '71 MGB?
Message-ID: <20110708.132317.29046.7@webmail12.vgs.untd.com>

  It is not a difficult job. Here is how I do it:
  Disconnect the battery -- starter wire in in close proximity to wrenches.
  Lay a piece of saran wrap/plastic film on the MC filler opening; screw down
the cap
  Cut off the old hose
  Remove the slave cylinder with hose end
  Disconnect hose to metal tube end
  Install new hose on the slave cylinder
  "offer up" the new hose to the metal tube end and fasten
  Bolt up slave cylinder.
  Bleed the system
     remove the plastic film
    use a cable tie to hold slave pushrod fully into the slave cylinder.
    do the usual bleeding procedure
    connect the slave cylinder to the clutch lever.
Bob




---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bob Donahue" <bobmgtd at comcast.net>
To: "mgs" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Mgs] How to change clutch hose on a '71 MGB?
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:50:39 -0400

What does it take to change the clutch hose on a '71 MGB? Can it be done
without removing the starter? (Hopefully not the engine!)

Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s)
Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net
Cars:       52 MGTD - #17639
               71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361
Member:  NEMGTR #11470
               NAMGBR # 7-3336
               Hoosier MGB Club
               Olde Octagons of Indiana
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Fri Jul  8 12:08:49 2011
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 20:08:49 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] How to change clutch hose on a '71 MGB?
References: <871B80340252425BB7E2FEE3DA68D477@yourmb2swywknr>
Message-ID: <0F0B0790B242443DA2AD58127AB6F490@uw471de61b465c>

I did this job with the engine insitu on my 71 BGT.
The starter has to be taken out regrettably.
When you're busy you also can take out the slave cylinder and clean it and 
have the piston seal replaced.
Well worth while to do together with the hose job.

Hint: Often it is easy to remove the distributor cap in order to have more 
room to move for removing and putting back the starter motor.
I once did not notice, that one of the distributor cap clamps was fallen 
downwards, where it normally falls onto the starter motor. Yes I had to take 
out the motor another time.
So keep the clamps together with an elastic band when remounting the motor.

Good luck

Cheers,

Hans - who leaves to the UK in his GT tomorrow and will see Paul Hunt next 
monday!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Donahue" <bobmgtd at comcast.net>
To: "mgs" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 5:50 PM
Subject: [Mgs] How to change clutch hose on a '71 MGB?


> What does it take to change the clutch hose on a '71 MGB? Can it be done
> without removing the starter? (Hopefully not the engine!)
>
> Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s)
> Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net
> Cars:       52 MGTD - #17639
>               71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361
> Member:  NEMGTR #11470
>               NAMGBR # 7-3336
>               Hoosier MGB Club
>               Olde Octagons of Indiana

From dave at ranteer.com  Fri Jul  8 15:38:46 2011
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:38:46 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] How to change clutch hose on a '71 MGB?
In-Reply-To: <0F0B0790B242443DA2AD58127AB6F490@uw471de61b465c>
References: <871B80340252425BB7E2FEE3DA68D477@yourmb2swywknr>
	<0F0B0790B242443DA2AD58127AB6F490@uw471de61b465c>
Message-ID: <8D08ADF4C9164F12A5E483A538C7C424@ranteer.local>

I will second that.  it is worth removing the starter . . .

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Hans Duinhoven" <h.duinhoven at planet.nl>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 1:08 PM
To: "Bob Donahue" <bobmgtd at comcast.net>; "mgs" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] How to change clutch hose on a '71 MGB?

> I did this job with the engine insitu on my 71 BGT.
> The starter has to be taken out regrettably.
> When you're busy you also can take out the slave cylinder and clean it and 
> have the piston seal replaced.
> Well worth while to do together with the hose job.
>
> Hint: Often it is easy to remove the distributor cap in order to have more 
> room to move for removing and putting back the starter motor.
> I once did not notice, that one of the distributor cap clamps was fallen 
> downwards, where it normally falls onto the starter motor. Yes I had to 
> take out the motor another time.
> So keep the clamps together with an elastic band when remounting the 
> motor.
>
> Good luck
>
> Cheers,

From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com  Sat Jul  9 00:16:16 2011
From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 23:16:16 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] How to change clutch hose on a '71 MGB?
In-Reply-To: <8D08ADF4C9164F12A5E483A538C7C424@ranteer.local>
References: <871B80340252425BB7E2FEE3DA68D477@yourmb2swywknr>
	<0F0B0790B242443DA2AD58127AB6F490@uw471de61b465c>
	<8D08ADF4C9164F12A5E483A538C7C424@ranteer.local>
Message-ID: <CAEUYfyO3ZzwYxsHroeoz8nn0Jdrp1bgySxw1uwxki6XtftjVew@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Dave <dave at ranteer.com> wrote:
> I will second that.  it is worth removing the starter . . .

Really? Some years ago, I removed, cleaned the cylinder and replaced
the slave cylinder on the '74 MGB that I used to own without any great
difficulty.

Simon

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul  9 03:09:30 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 10:09:30 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] How to change clutch hose on a '71 MGB?
References: <871B80340252425BB7E2FEE3DA68D477@yourmb2swywknr><0F0B0790B242443DA2AD58127AB6F490@uw471de61b465c><8D08ADF4C9164F12A5E483A538C7C424@ranteer.local>
	<CAEUYfyO3ZzwYxsHroeoz8nn0Jdrp1bgySxw1uwxki6XtftjVew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E22568179F414EE287C7703D5404D964@paul>

Slave cylinder on its own yes, replacing the hose (which was the question) 
can be a very different thing.  In theory you can undo the pipe nut and the 
hose top securing nut with everything in-situ.  But if they are corroded you 
may have to remove the starter to make more room, but even then you may not 
be able to undo them, even with crows-foot spanners.  If all else fails you 
can cut the hose at the top and grind off the bottom of the fitting flush 
with the bracket, then manoeuvre the upper part down past the bracket and 
work on the pipe nut from there.  It has been mentioned in passing but make 
sure you tighten the new hose into the slave, with its copper washer, and 
with the slave bolted to the bell-housing, before you tighten the upper 
fitting onto the bracket.  If you tighten the top end first the hose will 
probably end up twisted which is a Bad Thing.

If you have the engine out, then it is definitely worth replacing the hose 
there and then unless it is relatively new anyway.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Really? Some years ago, I removed, cleaned the cylinder and replaced
> the slave cylinder on the '74 MGB that I used to own without any great
> difficulty.

From pboldtrix at juno.com  Sat Jul  9 15:26:26 2011
From: pboldtrix at juno.com (Phil Bacon)
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 21:26:26 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] Bezel removal tool
Message-ID: <20110709.172626.18780.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>

____________________________________________________________
24x7 New Credit Cards
Ever wonder what a new credit card is like? Savometer is the next big thing in
credit cards.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4e18c7a837262cdaa1st06vuc

From pboldtrix at juno.com  Sat Jul  9 15:46:28 2011
From: pboldtrix at juno.com (Phil Bacon)
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 21:46:28 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] Bezel removal tool
Message-ID: <20110709.174628.18780.1@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>

____________________________________________________________
Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210

From pboldtrix at juno.com  Sun Jul 10 07:19:25 2011
From: pboldtrix at juno.com (Phil Bacon)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:19:25 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] Bezel removal tool - where to find
Message-ID: <20110710.091925.18699.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Bert Palte <palte at gmx.net>
To: "Phil Bacon" <pboldtrix at juno.com>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Bezel removal tool
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 10:35:53 +0200

Hi Phil,
Where is the content of your message?


At 23:46 9-7-2011, you wrote:
>____________________________________________________________
>Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
>http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/palte at gmx.net



____________________________________________________________
57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4e19a6f41e6782dfe12st04vuc

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Sun Jul 10 08:23:24 2011
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 07:23:24 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Bezel removal tool - where to find
In-Reply-To: <20110710.091925.18699.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20110710.091925.18699.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <149EDC4B-022A-451A-BDC8-B8DEDAACFBF6@gmail.com>

Phil is a man of few words...
:-)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 10, 2011, at 13:19, "Phil Bacon" <pboldtrix at juno.com> wrote:

> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Bert Palte <palte at gmx.net>
> To: "Phil Bacon" <pboldtrix at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Bezel removal tool
> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 10:35:53 +0200
>
> Hi Phil,
> Where is the content of your message?
>
>
> At 23:46 9-7-2011, you wrote:
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
>> http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/palte at gmx.net
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> 57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
> Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4e19a6f41e6782dfe12st04vuc
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com

From dave at ranteer.com  Sun Jul 10 12:32:55 2011
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:32:55 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Bezel removal tool - where to find
In-Reply-To: <149EDC4B-022A-451A-BDC8-B8DEDAACFBF6@gmail.com>
References: <20110710.091925.18699.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
	<149EDC4B-022A-451A-BDC8-B8DEDAACFBF6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A91C6AA46F54E69BD88D143A5CADDB1@ranteer.local>

ebay



me too
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Ewald" <richard.ewald at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 9:23 AM
To: "Phil Bacon" <pboldtrix at juno.com>
Cc: <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Bezel removal tool - where to find

> Phil is a man of few words...
> :-)

From pboldtrix at juno.com  Sun Jul 10 13:12:44 2011
From: pboldtrix at juno.com (Phil Bacon)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 19:12:44 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] Testing...subject line posts but not message...why?
Message-ID: <20110710.151244.8363.0@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>

Testing, Testing,   Trying to get subject to send
____________________________________________________________
57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4e19fa1a88b982e8d4ast01vuc

From barrie at look.ca  Sun Jul 10 14:08:51 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:08:51 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Testing...subject line posts but not message...why?
In-Reply-To: <20110710.151244.8363.0@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20110710.151244.8363.0@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <E1Qg0MQ-0002EG-0V@eta.look.ca>

Another SCAM !    When will people learn


At 03:12 PM 7/10/2011, Phil Bacon wrote:
>Testing, Testing,   Trying to get subject to send
>____________________________________________________________
>57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
>Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4e19fa1a88b982e8d4ast01vuc
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From strovato at optonline.net  Sun Jul 10 14:18:50 2011
From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:18:50 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Testing...subject line posts but not message...why?
In-Reply-To: <20110710.151244.8363.0@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20110710.151244.8363.0@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <0LO400980WFI8150@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

My guess is that there was something in your earlier messages that 
the forum software thought was not kosher.  Like you, being named 
Bacon and all.  Sorry.  I couldn't help myself.  But seriously, 
perhaps your mail contained HTML formatting that the list would not 
accept.  Your test message did get through, so try keeping your other 
messages all in plain text and see if that helps.

-Steve Trovato
strovato at optonline.net

From pboldtrix at juno.com  Sun Jul 10 15:51:08 2011
From: pboldtrix at juno.com (Phil Bacon)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:51:08 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] Where to find Bezel removal tool
Message-ID: <20110710.175108.19873.2@webmail02.vgs.untd.com>

____________________________________________________________
57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4e1a1f0594c7e2ed66cst03vuc

From pboldtrix at juno.com  Sun Jul 10 15:50:43 2011
From: pboldtrix at juno.com (Phil Bacon)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:50:43 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] Where to find Bezel removal tool
Message-ID: <20110710.175043.19873.0@webmail02.vgs.untd.com>

____________________________________________________________
57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4e1a1f05c07d52ed66dst03vuc

From pboldtrix at juno.com  Sun Jul 10 15:50:51 2011
From: pboldtrix at juno.com (Phil Bacon)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:50:51 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] Where to find Bezel removal tool
Message-ID: <20110710.175051.19873.1@webmail02.vgs.untd.com>

____________________________________________________________
57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4e1a1f058f8422ed7e0st04vuc

From bamadio at comcast.net  Sun Jul 10 20:17:43 2011
From: bamadio at comcast.net (bruce madio)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 22:17:43 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] TD Gearbox problem
Message-ID: <3EA46CC9-3232-4F12-BF6B-058C469E98BE@comcast.net>

My brother has been looking at a TD for sale and noted the transmission pops
out of gear.  He didn't say in what gear this happens.  My question is: what
are the likely cause(s) of this and what's involved in the the cure.  Any
ideas  and advise is appreciated.

Thanks,

From twobees at sprynet.com  Sun Jul 10 13:25:22 2011
From: twobees at sprynet.com (Norm 2Bs)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:25:22 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Turner 30/206 For Sale
Message-ID: <003801cc3f37$1f56b8b0$6401a8c0@normoffice>

Greetings all!
 
It is with regret that I have put my Turner, #30/206, up for sale.  I have
posted it on the Turner Web site and will shortly put it on eBay.  It has
been a fun car.  But, I guess I have the 10 year itch and my vision is not
what it was during the peak of my racing days.  
 
Once it sells, I will put the 2004 ATC 20 ft. enclosed trailer up for sale
as well.  Obviously the Turner & trailer can be purchased as a package.
 
To see more, go to:  <http://www.turnersportscars.co.uk/>
http://www.turnersportscars.co.uk/  Then go to "Sales & Wants."
 
FYI, some photos taken last weekend are attached.  The better race engine
should be ready shortly.
 
Please pass this on to anyone who might have an interest in these
lightweight, limited-production cars.  
 
Thanks.
 
Cheers!
 
Norm

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 000_0038 (Large).jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of IMG_9118 (Large).jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 206 sump 1 (Large).jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 000_0036 (Large).jpg]

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[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of SippelN_CDA_113 (Large).jpg]

From g.schnittke at comcast.net  Sun Jul 10 22:09:47 2011
From: g.schnittke at comcast.net (Glenn Schnittke)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 23:09:47 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Bezel removal tool - where to find (Phil Bacon)
Message-ID: <4E1A778B.10104@comcast.net>

While I'm waiting for my new Savometer credit card to arrive (and I 
can't wait), let me take a moment to make a professional endorsement of 
Moss' fairly new bezel removal tool. It not only fits the bezel nut for 
removal, but amazingly, fits the very same bezel nut on re-installation!!!!

Seriously, it's a good tool. It seems to self center on the nut which 
helps keep you from trashing your precious wrinkle paint. Thank you Moss 
Motors. The only thing it won't handle on an early MGB dashboard is an 
overdrive 'shepherd's crook' switch. For that they'd need to come up 
with a bezel with a built in three-way universal joint. For that I'm 
still using the Jesus-clip removal tool because I haven't had the time 
to make a custom tool for it.

Glenn

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Sun Jul 10 22:30:51 2011
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:30:51 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] TD Gearbox problem
In-Reply-To: <3EA46CC9-3232-4F12-BF6B-058C469E98BE@comcast.net>
References: <3EA46CC9-3232-4F12-BF6B-058C469E98BE@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CACOF-Tp-_UkYppPAvpyPnDPxZTcv4akjujv-PUpeGgzGqjwuyg@mail.gmail.com>

The bearing (or bushing) inside the gear is worn causing the gear to wobble.
The wobble works on the shifter fork, which moves.  This causes it to pop
out of gear.
Of course on a trans this old it could be several parts all worn a bit.

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 7:17 PM, bruce madio <bamadio at comcast.net> wrote:

> My brother has been looking at a TD for sale and noted the transmission
> pops
> out of gear.  He didn't say in what gear this happens.  My question is:
> what
> are the likely cause(s) of this and what's involved in the the cure.  Any
> ideas  and advise is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jul 11 02:28:20 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:28:20 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Bezel removal tool - where to find (Phil Bacon)
References: <4E1A778B.10104@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <A16408111FBB4FAAB124C15B7428EA7E@paul>

That's the locking-ring tool for toggle-switches.  A bezel is typically a 
trim piece around the edge of something, and in this case I'd assumed it 
referred to the rocker switches and the U-shaped gizmos that are required to 
depress the tangs on the bezel to get them out of the dash, and a smaller 
version to get switch out of the bezel.  With what Moss *have* produced, I'm 
surprised they haven't produced these tools given the number of cars with 
these switches in North America and the number of times it has been asked 
how to remove them.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Seriously, it's a good tool. It seems to self center on the nut which 
> helps keep you from trashing your precious wrinkle paint. Thank you Moss 
> Motors. The only thing it won't handle on an early MGB dashboard is an 
> overdrive 'shepherd's crook' switch. 

From mgbob at juno.com  Mon Jul 11 07:52:07 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 13:52:07 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] TD Gearbox problem
Message-ID: <20110711.095207.9921.10@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

   Suggest to your brother that he call John Esposito, Quantum Mechanics, who
is a rebuilder of gearboxes.  203-203-463-8299.   John is easy to talk with
and very helpful.
Bob




---------- Original Message ----------
From: bruce madio <bamadio at comcast.net>
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] TD Gearbox problem
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 22:17:43 -0400

My brother has been looking at a TD for sale and noted the transmission pops
out of gear.  He didn't say in what gear this happens.  My question is: what
are the likely cause(s) of this and what's involved in the the cure.  Any
ideas  and advise is appreciated.

Thanks,
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Jul 13 13:34:23 2011
From: mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com (W. David Houser)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:34:23 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] TD wheels, tires and things
Message-ID: <9D5AD01B-61DA-448E-BE02-9E1C858E0027@tampabay.rr.com>

Listers,
I have only to put the wheels and mounted tires back on my steel wheel  
MGTD and then I hope the saga is over.
Almost makes me feel the next custodian should be taking over the  
reins for the next 50 years... not really,
Just a bit frustrated with the experience of finding tires, powder- 
coating wheels, buying tubes, then finding someone to install the  
tubes and finally mount and balance the tires.
Anyone else with TD or TF steel wheels finding this experience to be a  
major one?
Also, has anyone even come across a replacement wheel for the 5-stud  
TD/TF?
Cheers,
Dave Houser

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul 13 14:07:49 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:07:49 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] TD wheels, tires and things
In-Reply-To: <9D5AD01B-61DA-448E-BE02-9E1C858E0027@tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CA434925.32D43%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

You think that's frustrating, try wire wheels.

Most shops can't balance them at all -- they would wind up putting 20
weights around the rim and they would still vibrate.

And tall (75-80 series) 14in tires aren't easy to come by, either.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 7/13/11 12:34 PM, W. David Houser at mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com wrote:

> Listers,
> I have only to put the wheels and mounted tires back on my steel wheel
> MGTD and then I hope the saga is over.
> Almost makes me feel the next custodian should be taking over the
> reins for the next 50 years... not really,
> Just a bit frustrated with the experience of finding tires, powder-
> coating wheels, buying tubes, then finding someone to install the
> tubes and finally mount and balance the tires.
> Anyone else with TD or TF steel wheels finding this experience to be a
> major one?
> Also, has anyone even come across a replacement wheel for the 5-stud
> TD/TF?
> Cheers,
> Dave Houser
> _______________________________________________

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 14 01:57:26 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 08:57:26 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] MGB was TD wheels, tires and things
References: <CA434925.32D43%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <5A1226B1017142E7B934DC7251ECFF8A@paul>

Can't speak for the TD but on the MGB the critical thing is how the wheel is 
mounted on the balancer shaft.  Normally they mount the back of the wheel 
against a flat surface and put a cone through the centre hole.  That's fine 
for modern wheels as the centre hole is designed for that purpose, whereas 
on MGB stud wheels it's just a hole that was punched through to make space 
for the hub nut without much consideration for concentricity or roundness. 
It's bad enough with those, but on wire wheels neither of the machined 
tapered mounting surfaces are being used, and I've had tyre places point out 
a massive wobble with the wheel on their machine that isn't there on the 
hub.  I've had a pair of cones machined 
(http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/MGBCones.exe) that support the wheel both 
sides - on the inside taper at the back of the wheel and the outside taper 
at the front which has solved the problem for the wire wheels, and I have a 
hub waiting to be machined so I can mount my V8 wheel by the studs.  However 
it does need the agreement of the tyre place to use them.  I have done some 
tests at my tyre place and found that their standard cone when used on the 
back of the wheel gives the same balance results as the machined cone even 
though the standard cone has a different taper and so holds the wheel on the 
edge of its taper instead of its flat, so potentially you only need the 
outer cone.  YMMV.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> You think that's frustrating, try wire wheels.
>
> Most shops can't balance them at all -- they would wind up putting 20
> weights around the rim and they would still vibrate.

From pchast at francomm.com  Thu Jul 14 07:03:51 2011
From: pchast at francomm.com (Pete Chast)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:03:51 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MGB was TD wheels, tires and things
In-Reply-To: <5A1226B1017142E7B934DC7251ECFF8A@paul>
References: <CA434925.32D43%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<5A1226B1017142E7B934DC7251ECFF8A@paul>
Message-ID: <op.vyl08pvdsjevdj@pete200>

I avoid all that by going to my local body shop and they balance the tires  
on th ecar
by spinning the wheel as it is mounted.

Pete
Athens, NY
66 Midget


On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 03:57:26 -0400, Paul Hunt  
<paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Can't speak for the TD but on the MGB the critical thing is how the  
> wheel is mounted on the balancer shaft.  Normally they mount the back of  
> the wheel against a flat surface and put a cone through the centre  
> hole.  That's fine for modern wheels as the centre hole is designed for  
> that purpose, whereas on MGB stud wheels it's just a hole that was  
> punched through to make space for the hub nut without much consideration  
> for concentricity or roundness. It's bad enough with those, but on wire  
> wheels neither of the machined tapered mounting surfaces are being used,  
> and I've had tyre places point out a massive wobble with the wheel on  
> their machine that isn't there on the hub.  I've had a pair of cones  
> machined (http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/MGBCones.exe) that support the  
> wheel both sides - on the inside taper at the back of the wheel and the  
> outside taper at the front which has solved the problem for the wire  
> wheels, and I have a hub waiting to be machined so I can mount my V8  
> wheel by the studs.  However it does need the agreement of the tyre  
> place to use them.  I have done some tests at my tyre place and found  
> that their standard cone when used on the back of the wheel gives the  
> same balance results as the machined cone even though the standard cone  
> has a different taper and so holds the wheel on the edge of its taper  
> instead of its flat, so potentially you only need the outer cone.  YMMV.
>
> PaulH.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> You think that's frustrating, try wire wheels.
>>
>> Most shops can't balance them at all -- they would wind up putting 20
>> weights around the rim and they would still vibrate.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:  
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/pchast at francomm.com


-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 14 08:04:45 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:04:45 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] MGB was TD wheels, tires and things
References: <CA434925.32D43%max_heim@sbcglobal.net><5A1226B1017142E7B934DC7251ECFF8A@paul>
	<op.vyl08pvdsjevdj@pete200>
Message-ID: <FE0033C6975245EBAD3CA43F2D73FEC1@paul>

I wish it were still that simple here.  Tyre places no longer have the kit, 
and whilst I have found one specialist vibration analysis and dynamic (I 
wrote 'dymanic' - Freudian?) balancing specialist it is quite a way from me 
and they charge #65 for a pair of wheels.

----- Original Message ----- 
>I avoid all that by going to my local body shop and they balance the tires 
>on th ecar
> by spinning the wheel as it is mounted.

From barrie at look.ca  Thu Jul 14 11:29:32 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:29:32 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MGB was TD wheels, tires and things
In-Reply-To: <5A1226B1017142E7B934DC7251ECFF8A@paul>
References: <CA434925.32D43%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<5A1226B1017142E7B934DC7251ECFF8A@paul>
Message-ID: <E1QhQPM-0008Mq-MX@alpha.look.ca>

Paul,

It seems I am fortunate in this backwater where they still use the 
old fashioned way - no fancy equipment !


At 03:57 AM 7/14/2011, Paul Hunt wrote:
>Can't speak for the TD but on the MGB the critical thing is how the 
>wheel is mounted on the balancer shaft.  Normally they mount the 
>back of the wheel against a flat surface and put a cone through the 
>centre hole.  That's fine for modern wheels as the centre hole is 
>designed for that purpose, whereas on MGB stud wheels it's just a 
>hole that was punched through to make space for the hub nut without 
>much consideration for concentricity or roundness. It's bad enough 
>with those, but on wire wheels neither of the machined tapered 
>mounting surfaces are being used, and I've had tyre places point out 
>a massive wobble with the wheel on their machine that isn't there on 
>the hub.  I've had a pair of cones machined 
>(http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/MGBCones.exe) that support the wheel 
>both sides - on the inside taper at the back of the wheel and the 
>outside taper at the front which has solved the problem for the wire 
>wheels, and I have a hub waiting to be machined so I can mount my V8 
>wheel by the studs.  However it does need the agreement of the tyre 
>place to use them.  I have done some tests at my tyre place and 
>found that their standard cone when used on the back of the wheel 
>gives the same balance results as the machined cone even though the 
>standard cone has a different taper and so holds the wheel on the 
>edge of its taper instead of its flat, so potentially you only need 
>the outer cone.  YMMV.
>
>PaulH.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>>You think that's frustrating, try wire wheels.
>>
>>Most shops can't balance them at all -- they would wind up putting 20
>>weights around the rim and they would still vibrate.
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From mgbob at juno.com  Thu Jul 14 15:15:30 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:15:30 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] MGB was TD wheels, tires and things
Message-ID: <20110714.171530.15831.3@webmail12.vgs.untd.com>

Pete,
  Cherish your friendship with the guy who owns that balancer.  You might see
if he will put your name on it to sell it to you when he retires.  I have not
seen one in 25 years, and they are great tools.
Bob

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Pete Chast" <pchast at francomm.com>
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB was TD wheels, tires and things
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:03:51 -0400

I avoid all that by going to my local body shop and they balance the tires
on th ecar
by spinning the wheel as it is mounted.

Pete
Athens, NY
66 Midget


On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 03:57:26 -0400, Paul Hunt
<paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Can't speak for the TD but on the MGB the critical thing is how the
> wheel is mounted on the balancer shaft.  Normally they mount the back of
> the wheel against a flat surface and put a cone through the centre
> hole.  That's fine for modern wheels as the centre hole is designed for
> that purpose, whereas on MGB stud wheels it's just a hole that was
> punched through to make space for the hub nut without much consideration
> for concentricity or roundness. It's bad enough with those, but on wire
> wheels neither of the machined tapered mounting surfaces are being used,
> and I've had tyre places point out a massive wobble with the wheel on
> their machine that isn't there on the hub.  I've had a pair of cones
> machined (http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/MGBCones.exe) that support the
> wheel both sides - on the inside taper at the back of the wheel and the
> outside taper at the front which has solved the problem for the wire
> wheels, and I have a hub waiting to be machined so I can mount my V8
> wheel by the studs.  However it does need the agreement of the tyre
> place to use them.  I have done some tests at my tyre place and found
> that their standard cone when used on the back of the wheel gives the
> same balance results as the machined cone even though the standard cone
> has a different taper and so holds the wheel on the edge of its taper
> instead of its flat, so potentially you only need the outer cone.  YMMV.
>
> PaulH.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> You think that's frustrating, try wire wheels.
>>
>> Most shops can't balance them at all -- they would wind up putting 20
>> weights around the rim and they would still vibrate.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/pchast at francomm.com


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_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
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From mg1948 at verizon.net  Thu Jul 14 18:54:58 2011
From: mg1948 at verizon.net (John Marcell)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:54:58 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] TD wheels, tires and things
In-Reply-To: <CA434925.32D43%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
References: <CA434925.32D43%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <144C25E4-73AB-4CDA-9217-CE8EF3AF3768@verizon.net>

I'v always taken my TC wheels to a motorcycle shop & they do it with no
problem.

Phil
On Jul 13, 2011, at 3:07 PM, Max Heim wrote:

> You think that's frustrating, try wire wheels.
>
> Most shops can't balance them at all -- they would wind up putting 20
> weights around the rim and they would still vibrate.
>
> And tall (75-80 series) 14in tires aren't easy to come by, either.
>
> --
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Mountain View, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>
>
>
> on 7/13/11 12:34 PM, W. David Houser at mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com wrote:
>
>> Listers,
>> I have only to put the wheels and mounted tires back on my steel wheel
>> MGTD and then I hope the saga is over.
>> Almost makes me feel the next custodian should be taking over the
>> reins for the next 50 years... not really,
>> Just a bit frustrated with the experience of finding tires, powder-
>> coating wheels, buying tubes, then finding someone to install the
>> tubes and finally mount and balance the tires.
>> Anyone else with TD or TF steel wheels finding this experience to be a
>> major one?
>> Also, has anyone even come across a replacement wheel for the 5-stud
>> TD/TF?
>> Cheers,
>> Dave Houser
>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg1948 at verizon.net

From bobmgtd at comcast.net  Fri Jul 15 07:59:07 2011
From: bobmgtd at comcast.net (Bob Donahue)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:59:07 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] What size wrench for brake/clutch lines?
Message-ID: <F6AB3942D1C44566B7B09B24A66ACB62@yourmb2swywknr>

I'd like to get a flare nut wrench for the hydraulic lines on my '71 MGB. What
size are the fittings?

Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s)
Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net
Cars:       52 MGTD - #17639
               71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361
Member:  NEMGTR #11470
               NAMGBR # 7-3336
               Hoosier MGB Club
               Olde Octagons of Indiana

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Fri Jul 15 08:48:39 2011
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:48:39 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] What size wrench for brake/clutch lines?
In-Reply-To: <F6AB3942D1C44566B7B09B24A66ACB62@yourmb2swywknr>
References: <F6AB3942D1C44566B7B09B24A66ACB62@yourmb2swywknr>
Message-ID: <60057.53451.qm@smtp109.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I'm not a MGB guy, so I don't know.  However, if you are buying 
replacement parts, don't bet on it being original.  These days lots 
of replacement hoses are being made with metric hex sizes..


At 09:59 AM 7/15/2011 -0400, Bob Donahue wrote:
>I'd like to get a flare nut wrench for the hydraulic lines on my '71 
>MGB. What size are the fittings?
>....

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 15 10:15:19 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:15:19 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] What size wrench for brake/clutch lines?
In-Reply-To: <60057.53451.qm@smtp109.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <F6AB3942D1C44566B7B09B24A66ACB62@yourmb2swywknr>,
	<60057.53451.qm@smtp109.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W2596C48C54A2EB113DC197B7490@phx.gbl>

Most of the ones I've come across have been 7/16", but as Barney says, there
are no guarantees that yours are the same size.


> Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:48:39 -0500
> To: bobmgtd at comcast.net; mgs at autox.team.net
> From: barneymg at mgaguru.com
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] What size wrench for brake/clutch lines?
>
> I'm not a MGB guy, so I don't know. However, if you are buying
> replacement parts, don't bet on it being original. These days lots
> of replacement hoses are being made with metric hex sizes..
>
>
> At 09:59 AM 7/15/2011 -0400, Bob Donahue wrote:
> >I'd like to get a flare nut wrench for the hydraulic lines on my '71
> >MGB. What size are the fittings?
> >....
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From g.schnittke at comcast.net  Fri Jul 15 20:29:43 2011
From: g.schnittke at comcast.net (g.schnittke at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 02:29:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mgs] Re;  What size wrench for brake/clutch lines?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1310752803.30293.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <1513184558.743929.1310783383560.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

What I've seen in the shop is - 

Actual flare fittings (hard line to caliper, rear union, etc.) - 7/16" wrench. Thread 3/8x24 . Pretty regular. 
Hoses - again 3/8x24 thread. Wrench size could be 9/16, 14mm, 15mm, or 5/8" 
Bleeder screws - What a cornucopia! recently I've seen 7mm, 8mm, 5/16", 7/16" 3/8" and an E-Type with a 1/4-28 bolt (but that's beside the point.) 

Glenn 

----- Original Message -----


>I'd like to get a flare nut wrench for the hydraulic lines on my '71 MGB. What 
>size are the fittings? 

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul 16 02:11:59 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 09:11:59 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Re;  What size wrench for brake/clutch lines?
References: <1513184558.743929.1310783383560.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <EF18061CB4CA4415A9EFCD641C6CAA36@paul>

About what I was going to say, just based on my 73 and 75.  The two need 
different spanners in various places, and they aren't always AF sizes i.e. 
Imperial.  My 1975 (date of publication) Workshop Manual details both 
Imperial and metric hydraulic fittings and how to identify them, so either 
they changed what they were using at some time (or even from time to time) 
or it varied from market to market.  I was looking into this earlier this 
year hoping to get a definitive answer prior to purchasing the pukka flare 
nut spanner/s i.e. the ones that encompasses four flats and five corners 
instead of the more usual four flats and three corners.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Actual flare fittings (hard line to caliper, rear union, etc.) - 7/16" 
> wrench. Thread 3/8x24 . Pretty regular.
> Hoses - again 3/8x24 thread. Wrench size could be 9/16, 14mm, 15mm, or 
> 5/8"

From barrie at look.ca  Mon Jul 18 12:09:33 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:09:33 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Considerably off topic
Message-ID: <E1QisId-0004Iy-Mw@eta.look.ca>

I hate to do this to the list but I have to advise that I have come 
into a considerable amount of money and I feel I should share it with 
you.  The amount is approx $83,790,000 and was the result of the 
following, all of which are obviously for real as they are supported 
with impressive names and contact numbers

Lucky Four Star Prize winner            $422,032
Mount Casino Promotional Lottery     $4,500,000
Dr Moshoon Baye                            $14,000,000
Dr Philip Watson                              $1,200,000
Mr Kofi Ansah                                  $13,700,000
Electronic Award                              $2,500,000
Spanish National Lottery                   $2,500,000
Malaysian Govt                                $820,000
Hang Seng Bank                              $12,500,000
New York Clearing House                 $12,500,000
El Gordo de la Primitiva                    $19,151,301

So I will share this amount with anyone who wishes to apply.  Just 
send me $245 for bank transfer fees plus $450 registration fee as 
well as $2.50 for postage.

Oh please do not crucify me - I just got these within two weeks and 
had to add them up and do this - There is obviously a market for this 
stupidity !!!

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From don at napanet.net  Mon Jul 18 14:04:52 2011
From: don at napanet.net (Don)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:04:52 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Considerably off topic
In-Reply-To: <E1QisId-0004Iy-Mw@eta.look.ca>
References: <E1QisId-0004Iy-Mw@eta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <20110718200503.766F3AFBA3@mail.dsl.napanet.net>

Do you accept Paypal?  Or if I send a check, I will need your mailing 
address.  Thanks for sharing the wealth!




At 11:09 AM 7/18/2011, Barrie Robinson wrote:
>I hate to do this to the list but I have to advise that I have come 
>into a considerable amount of money and I feel I should share it 
>with you.  The amount is approx $83,790,000 and was the result of 
>the following, all of which are obviously for real as they are 
>supported with impressive names and contact numbers
>
>Lucky Four Star Prize winner            $422,032
>Mount Casino Promotional Lottery     $4,500,000
>Dr Moshoon Baye                            $14,000,000
>Dr Philip Watson                              $1,200,000
>Mr Kofi Ansah                                  $13,700,000
>Electronic Award                              $2,500,000
>Spanish National Lottery                   $2,500,000
>Malaysian Govt                                $820,000
>Hang Seng Bank                              $12,500,000
>New York Clearing House                 $12,500,000
>El Gordo de la Primitiva                    $19,151,301
>
>So I will share this amount with anyone who wishes to apply.  Just 
>send me $245 for bank transfer fees plus $450 registration fee as 
>well as $2.50 for postage.
>
>Oh please do not crucify me - I just got these within two weeks and 
>had to add them up and do this - There is obviously a market for 
>this stupidity !!!
>
>Regards
>
>Barrie
>barrie at look.ca
>705-721-9060 _______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/don at napanet.net
>
>
>
>-----
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3772 - Release Date: 07/18/11

From degraff at erols.com  Tue Jul 19 11:48:37 2011
From: degraff at erols.com (Elliott and Martha DeGraff)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 13:48:37 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG Car Club Washington DC Centre Braille Rallye
Message-ID: <4E25C375.5020609@erols.com>

Below is a link to a short video (under 2 minutes) about the local MG 
car club's Braille Rallye which was held in Burke, Virginia on July 16. 
  As always, it was a lot of fun.

http://burke.patch.com/articles/video-braille-rally-supports-the-visually-impaired#video-7044116

From qualitas.jack at gmail.com  Tue Jul 19 13:11:37 2011
From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:11:37 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Is This a Scam?
Message-ID: <CAGhWe-dgDoJt6mzcmUmp87zm_dcLGNiFJ3s0USDAZ=kmpUXvnA@mail.gmail.com>

I shared the following email with the Healey list. Interestingly enough the
responses were divided between scam and real offer.

One member is married to  a woman who is from Slovakia ;and who is presently
visiting. He is going to ask her to look at the car. I can hardly wait to
read what she says.

Jack

-----------------------------------------------
Martin Pastir mpastir at raton.sk to me
show details Jul 18 (2 days ago)

Dear Mr. Feldman,

I found contact for your Austin Healey club on internet. My uncle from
Slovakia made renovation of Austin Healey for last 3 years. You can find
all information before renovation, during renovation and after
renovation on following FTP server:

ftp: 195.28.77.180
user: profigarant
password: 2468

Also you can find all pictures and information about this car.
Renovation was finished only last month (6/2011) and from this time this
car was 3 time awarded on several veterans meetings in Slovakia. Veteran
has all technical documents from government for next 5 years and it was
awarded with best mark A1 (from government expert). All parts in car are
originally and there are no new spare parts. All spare parts was
renovated. Car is "new" and also interier is from leather like you can
see at the pictures. My ucle would like to sell this unique car, becuse
only few pieces are in Europe. You are focused especially for Austin
Healey cars and I would like to know if you have some fans or potential
buyers for this car or if you can focus me on some buyers or veterans
clubs. Thank you for information.

Warm regards,

Ing. Martin Pastir

Mobile phone: +421 911 233 960

From enquiries at classic-car-world.co.uk  Tue Jul 19 13:55:39 2011
From: enquiries at classic-car-world.co.uk (Tom McCay - Classic-Car-World Ltd)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 20:55:39 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Is This a Scam?
In-Reply-To: <CAGhWe-dgDoJt6mzcmUmp87zm_dcLGNiFJ3s0USDAZ=kmpUXvnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGhWe-dgDoJt6mzcmUmp87zm_dcLGNiFJ3s0USDAZ=kmpUXvnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26448474CBCC4A02938E9C082B4B4217@TomVistaPC>

Hi Jack, I have mixed thoughts on this one. The FTP address is assigned to a 
Slovakia server but the contact name is different to the name in the e-mail. 
Please see the following look- information on the address:

% This is the RIPE Database query service.
% The objects are in RPSL format.
%
% The RIPE Database is subject to Terms and Conditions.
% See http://www.ripe.net/db/support/db-terms-conditions.pdf

% Information related to '195.28.77.176 - 195.28.77.191'

inetnum:        195.28.77.176 - 195.28.77.191
netname:        SNET-KRYHA-STIP-SK
descr:          Slovanet customers Kryha Presov
country:        SK
admin-c:        MWPO-RIPE
tech-c:         MWPO-RIPE
status:         ASSIGNED PA
notify:         ********@slovanet.net
mnt-by:         SLOVANET-MNT
changed:        ***********@slovanet.net 20090616
source:         RIPE

role:           Slovanet Wireless Network Administrator PO
address:        Slovanet a.s., Plzenska 2,080 01 Presov
phone:          +421 55 2828 554
e-mail:         **********@slovanet.net
abuse-mailbox:  *******@slovanet.net
admin-c:        MM11819-RIPE
tech-c:         MM11819-RIPE
nic-hdl:        MWPO-RIPE
notify:         ********@slovanet.net
mnt-by:         SLOVANET-MNT
changed:        ***********@slovanet.net 20090123
source:         RIPE

% Information related to '195.28.64.0/19AS8778'

route:        195.28.64.0/19
descr:        Slovanet (ViaPVT)
origin:       AS8778
notify:       ********@slovanet.net
mnt-by:       SLOVANET-MNT
changed:      *************@slovanet.net 20030922
source:       RIPE

Secondly nobody in their right mind would pass an FTP account login details 
in an open e-mail. The server could be hacked very quickly with this 
information. The server is also running a program called Team Viewer which 
is used to take remote control of another computer via the Internet. IT 
support companies use this all the time to support customers in remote 
locations.

I would treat it with caution and simply delete it without giving it too 
much regard.

Kindest Regards

Tom
Tom McCay - Director, CCW-Tools, a division of Classic-Car-World Ltd, 32 
Washingborough Road, Heighington, Lincoln, LN4 1RE. 01522 888178 (Tel) 0870 
705 9115 (fax) enquiries at ccw-tools.com  www.ccw-tools.com

Registered address: 32 Washingborough Road, Heighington, Lincoln, LN4 1RE. 
Classic-Car-World Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with 
company number 3930761.  VAT registration number: 755 7630 05

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Feldman" <qualitas.jack at gmail.com>
To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 8:11 PM
Subject: [Mgs] Is This a Scam?


>I shared the following email with the Healey list. Interestingly enough the
> responses were divided between scam and real offer.
>
> One member is married to  a woman who is from Slovakia ;and who is 
> presently
> visiting. He is going to ask her to look at the car. I can hardly wait to
> read what she says.
>
> Jack
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Martin Pastir mpastir at raton.sk to me
> show details Jul 18 (2 days ago)
>
> Dear Mr. Feldman,
>
> I found contact for your Austin Healey club on internet. My uncle from
> Slovakia made renovation of Austin Healey for last 3 years. You can find
> all information before renovation, during renovation and after
> renovation on following FTP server:
>
> ftp: 195.28.77.180
> user: profigarant
> password: 2468
>
> Also you can find all pictures and information about this car.
> Renovation was finished only last month (6/2011) and from this time this
> car was 3 time awarded on several veterans meetings in Slovakia. Veteran
> has all technical documents from government for next 5 years and it was
> awarded with best mark A1 (from government expert). All parts in car are
> originally and there are no new spare parts. All spare parts was
> renovated. Car is "new" and also interier is from leather like you can
> see at the pictures. My ucle would like to sell this unique car, becuse
> only few pieces are in Europe. You are focused especially for Austin
> Healey cars and I would like to know if you have some fans or potential
> buyers for this car or if you can focus me on some buyers or veterans
> clubs. Thank you for information.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ing. Martin Pastir
>
> Mobile phone: +421 911 233 960
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/enquiries at classic-car-world.co.uk 

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 19 15:43:57 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:43:57 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Is This a Scam?
In-Reply-To: <CAGhWe-dgDoJt6mzcmUmp87zm_dcLGNiFJ3s0USDAZ=kmpUXvnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGhWe-dgDoJt6mzcmUmp87zm_dcLGNiFJ3s0USDAZ=kmpUXvnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W225DEFF337ACC0112DB535B74D0@phx.gbl>

Sounds like the typical Nigerian scam, just substitute "Austin Healey" for "6
million dollars."


> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:11:37 -0500
> From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Mgs] Is This a Scam?
>
> I shared the following email with the Healey list. Interestingly enough the
> responses were divided between scam and real offer.
>
> One member is married to a woman who is from Slovakia ;and who is presently
> visiting. He is going to ask her to look at the car. I can hardly wait to
> read what she says.
>
> Jack
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Martin Pastir mpastir at raton.sk to me
> show details Jul 18 (2 days ago)
>
> Dear Mr. Feldman,
>
> I found contact for your Austin Healey club on internet. My uncle from
> Slovakia made renovation of Austin Healey for last 3 years. You can find
> all information before renovation, during renovation and after
> renovation on following FTP server:
>
> ftp: 195.28.77.180
> user: profigarant
> password: 2468
>
> Also you can find all pictures and information about this car.
> Renovation was finished only last month (6/2011) and from this time this
> car was 3 time awarded on several veterans meetings in Slovakia. Veteran
> has all technical documents from government for next 5 years and it was
> awarded with best mark A1 (from government expert). All parts in car are
> originally and there are no new spare parts. All spare parts was
> renovated. Car is "new" and also interier is from leather like you can
> see at the pictures. My ucle would like to sell this unique car, becuse
> only few pieces are in Europe. You are focused especially for Austin
> Healey cars and I would like to know if you have some fans or potential
> buyers for this car or if you can focus me on some buyers or veterans
> clubs. Thank you for information.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ing. Martin Pastir
>
> Mobile phone: +421 911 233 960
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From d_dibiase at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 20 08:02:22 2011
From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 07:02:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] MG Car Club Washington DC Centre Braille Rallye
In-Reply-To: <4E25C375.5020609@erols.com>
References: <4E25C375.5020609@erols.com>
Message-ID: <1311170542.84334.YahooMailRC@web39420.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Very cool, Elliott!

 Dan D
Central NJ USA
'76 MGB Tourer
'65 MGB Tourer (Project)
NAMGBR #5-2328 
http://dans65b.blogspot.com/
http://dans76b.blogspot.com/
http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/
http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/
twitter: dandibiase





________________________________
From: Elliott and Martha DeGraff <degraff at erols.com>
To: MG Digest (E-mail) <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 1:48:37 PM
Subject: [Mgs] MG Car Club Washington DC Centre Braille Rallye

Below is a link to a short video (under 2 minutes) about the local MG car club's 
Braille Rallye which was held in Burke, Virginia on July 16.  As always, it was 
a lot of fun.

http://burke.patch.com/articles/video-braille-rally-supports-the-visually-impaired#video-7044116

_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com

From daybell7 at aol.com  Fri Jul 22 05:01:40 2011
From: daybell7 at aol.com (daybell7 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 07:01:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Strange Starting
Message-ID: <8CE1675DE88D243-90C-65E@webmail-d013.sysops.aol.com>

MG'ers,

My car starts at the point when I stop cranking the starter.  I can crank all
day and the car won't start.  This happens whether the car is cold or warmed
up.  There is also a backfire through the carbs when I stop cranking.  (I
think the fuel mixture is lean).  Is this a voltage problem?

Thanks in advance,
Steve Hughes
Gainesville, FL

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 22 07:37:48 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 06:37:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Strange Starting
In-Reply-To: <8CE1675DE88D243-90C-65E@webmail-d013.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1311341868.96893.YahooMailClassic@web112109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

-- On Fri, 7/22/11, daybell7 at aol.com <daybell7 at aol.com> wrote:

> My car
starts at the point when I stop cranking the
> starter.  I can crank all day
and the car won't start.

Model?

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 22 08:19:37 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:19:37 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Strange Starting
References: <8CE1675DE88D243-90C-65E@webmail-d013.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <B2D098F3714847D5B5C4970C63258286@paul>

Quite possibly the ignition switch disconnecting 12v from the white ignition 
wire when you turn the key to 'crank', and only reconnecting it when you 
release the key from the crank position back towards the 'run' position. 
However this would reveal itself as the fuel gauge dropping back towards 
zero while you were cranking ... assuming it works.  That would also cut 
power to the pump, so possibly the fuel level is dropping in the carb float 
chambers which could cause a weak mixture.  However resolve the ignition 
issue first, then see if you still have the backfire.

Other possibilities if you have after-market electronic ignition, especially 
on a rubber-bumper car, are that depending on where the power feed for the 
electronic module is taken from, the voltage could be too low during 
cranking for the ignition module to fire.

So as a previous respondent has indicated, we need to know the model and 
whether it is factory or has after-market mods.

PaulH.


----- Original Message ----- 
> My car starts at the point when I stop cranking the starter.  I can crank 
> all
> day and the car won't start.  This happens whether the car is cold or 
> warmed
> up.  There is also a backfire through the carbs when I stop cranking.  (I
> think the fuel mixture is lean).  Is this a voltage problem?

From daybell7 at aol.com  Fri Jul 22 09:39:05 2011
From: daybell7 at aol.com (daybell7 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:39:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Strange Starting
In-Reply-To: <B2D098F3714847D5B5C4970C63258286@paul>
References: <8CE1675DE88D243-90C-65E@webmail-d013.sysops.aol.com>
	<B2D098F3714847D5B5C4970C63258286@paul>
Message-ID: <8CE169C9F76539B-1E64-307B@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com>

Thanks, Paul.  The problem is on my TR6 ('73) which had a ballast resister
that I by-passed with a wire from the fuse box (white wire) to the coil (12
V).  I'll try another wire or confirm the absence of voltage at the connection
when I crank the starter.  The car does have an electronic ignition module and
I'll check the power source.

I've found that the MG experts are way better than anyone else, plus I do have
two MGs.

Thanks again,
Steve H.
68 BGT
72 B
59 Minor
73 TR6






-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Hunt <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>; daybell7 <daybell7 at aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:26 am
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Strange Starting


Quite possibly the ignition switch disconnecting 12v from the white ignition
ire when you turn the key to 'crank', and only reconnecting it when you
elease the key from the crank position back towards the 'run' position.
owever this would reveal itself as the fuel gauge dropping back towards
ero while you were cranking ... assuming it works.  That would also cut
ower to the pump, so possibly the fuel level is dropping in the carb float
hambers which could cause a weak mixture.  However resolve the ignition
ssue first, then see if you still have the backfire.
Other possibilities if you have after-market electronic ignition, especially
n a rubber-bumper car, are that depending on where the power feed for the
lectronic module is taken from, the voltage could be too low during
ranking for the ignition module to fire.
So as a previous respondent has indicated, we need to know the model and
hether it is factory or has after-market mods.
PaulH.

---- Original Message -----
 My car starts at the point when I stop cranking the starter.  I can crank
 all
 day and the car won't start.  This happens whether the car is cold or
 warmed
 up.  There is also a backfire through the carbs when I stop cranking.  (I
 think the fuel mixture is lean).  Is this a voltage problem?

From qualitas.jack at gmail.com  Fri Jul 22 12:08:51 2011
From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:08:51 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] It is not a scam
Message-ID: <CAGhWe-cZCH=up7aN-Vou3A533ip6WhB4vFwPDBhktdFb0xayAg@mail.gmail.com>

Here is the response given on the Healey list. Evidently it wasn't a scam,
or was it?

Jack

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 17:32:11 +0800
From: Alan Seigrist <healey.nut at gmail.com>
To: Healey <Healeys at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Healeys] Slovak Healey
Message-ID:
       <CAFBXTkLfN4BiZD3ekTSBaWy6+7mZPfK+sfqHmDAtEL152ThUDA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sorry for the slow response on this but I've been quite busy the last week.
 My wife did talk to the guy and he is in Presov,SK which isn't far from
where my wife is.  For those of you who know your WWII history, the Battle
for Dukla Pass occurred in this area, one of the biggest battles of WWII.

Anyway, unfortunately the owner of this car is, shall we say, typical in
their thinking for an older Slovak male.  On the one hand the amount of work
and attention to detail on the car is to be absolutely admired, apparently
it has won awards in several shows in Europe (Slovaks can be very detailed
with respect to mechanical things). On the other hand his asking price for
the car is..... drum roll please .....

210,000 Euro ($300,000).


(now click here:)
http://www.sadtuba.com/


Some particulars:

The car is a 1960 BT7, and the entire car was stripped and rebuilt by the
owner over three years.  Apparently the owner actually acquired the car 30
years ago (I have to wonder how, it was the communist early 80s then).  If
you recall I felt the interior color seemed a bit off - well apparently the
interior was done locally in Slovakia to great expense (it is supposed to be
the finest leather done in the best shop in the country, probably costed a
bomb), but unfortunately when you do this, the color for red will almost
always be off.

I believe the owner is under the mistaken impression that there are only 6
BT7s in Europe, hence the price.

I suggest this car is legit, that the work is very nicely done, and also
completely overpriced.  He did offer to have my wife go look at the car, I
told her don't bother.

I have pics if anyone wants them.

Who is the registrar for the BT7 registry so I can send the car number data
to him.

Cheers,

Alan

From don at napanet.net  Fri Jul 22 17:24:00 2011
From: don at napanet.net (Don)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:24:00 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'
Message-ID: <20110722232420.052F8B0EB6@mail.dsl.napanet.net>

I no longer own a Triumph, but I am still on the list.  Just got 
this.  Anyone MG folks know about it, where it might be discussed on 
the internet?



I know this ought to appear on the MG list - but it makes one wonder if the
same might be done for Triumph, subject to BMW giving a green light, which is
doubtful.

I see that the latest edition of Practical Classics in the UK has
announced that British Motor Heritage has joined forces with another
specialist to build just 50 MGBGT 'one-offs' to mark the thirty years that has
passed since the last MG left Abingdon. Using the original body jigs, the cars
will use a Mazda 2.0 litre engine and a six speed manual box. Power output is
indicated to be in excess of 210burps and with a slight modification to the
front suspenders. The announcement in the August edition of Practical Classics
didn't give *all* the info, except for the fact that the price is likely to be
in excess of GBP50k - approx 80k US.

It would be nice to see a TR6 getting a
similar comemmorative treatment but I guess the lederhosen clad mob in Munchen
would veto it. Perhaps the best that Triumph enthusiasts can hope for is a
barely rebodied version of that so-called 'mini' with some Triumph Globe
roundels slapped on the hubcaps?

Jonmac


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don Scott
Calistoga CA USA
1955 MGTF
1962 MGA Mk 2
1973 MGB GT (selling)
1963-7 MGB (seeking)
Misc. Japanese cars

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jul 22 18:17:23 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 17:17:23 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'
In-Reply-To: <20110722232420.052F8B0EB6@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
Message-ID: <CA4F6123.331E2%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

Haven't heard about this one.

There's a good reason it wouldn't be done with a Triumph -- that's a
body-on-frame design. With the MGB, if you have all the body stampings, you
have the whole car. With the Triumph, all you have is a pile of panels
sitting on the shop floor.



Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 7/22/11 4:24 PM, Don at don at napanet.net wrote:

> I no longer own a Triumph, but I am still on the list.  Just got
> this.  Anyone MG folks know about it, where it might be discussed on
> the internet?
> 
> 
> 
> I know this ought to appear on the MG list - but it makes one wonder if the
> same might be done for Triumph, subject to BMW giving a green light, which is
> doubtful.
> 
> I see that the latest edition of Practical Classics in the UK has
> announced that British Motor Heritage has joined forces with another
> specialist to build just 50 MGBGT 'one-offs' to mark the thirty years that has
> passed since the last MG left Abingdon. Using the original body jigs, the cars
> will use a Mazda 2.0 litre engine and a six speed manual box. Power output is
> indicated to be in excess of 210burps and with a slight modification to the
> front suspenders. The announcement in the August edition of Practical Classics
> didn't give *all* the info, except for the fact that the price is likely to be
> in excess of GBP50k - approx 80k US.
> 
> It would be nice to see a TR6 getting a
> similar comemmorative treatment but I guess the lederhosen clad mob in Munchen
> would veto it. Perhaps the best that Triumph enthusiasts can hope for is a
> barely rebodied version of that so-called 'mini' with some Triumph Globe
> roundels slapped on the hubcaps?
> 
> Jonmac
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------
> 
> Don Scott
> Calistoga CA USA
> 1955 MGTF
> 1962 MGA Mk 2
> 1973 MGB GT (selling)
> 1963-7 MGB (seeking)
> Misc. Japanese cars

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Sat Jul 23 03:40:44 2011
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 11:40:44 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'
References: <CA4F6123.331E2%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <8A7A17B3DA8345BAA41A3472AE208B38@uw471de61b465c>

MGB GT body still is being made per order.
So why not make it a special version.
Last week I visited the BMIHT during a weeks vacation trip to England and 
had a look in the official papers wherein my BGT is registered.
Quite impressive!

Friendly people helped us around and we had a great day.
We (my son Dave and I) have met Paul Hunt, who specially came to see us.

We had a special look at the BGT, which was divided into two parts - we even 
could walk between the two parts and look closely how the car is built.
There was no indication at the site mentioning the BGT would be made for any 
special reason.

The amount of money asked for this jubilee car I think is a lot.
I appreciate there is a lot of work included, but on the market there are 
more original GT's for sale, which can be made to a pristine status for less 
than half the money.

Cheers,

Hans


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Heim" <max_heim at sbcglobal.net>
To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 2:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'


> Haven't heard about this one.
>
> There's a good reason it wouldn't be done with a Triumph -- that's a
> body-on-frame design. With the MGB, if you have all the body stampings, 
> you
> have the whole car. With the Triumph, all you have is a pile of panels
> sitting on the shop floor.
>
>
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Mountain View, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>
>
> on 7/22/11 4:24 PM, Don at don at napanet.net wrote:
>
>> I no longer own a Triumph, but I am still on the list.  Just got
>> this.  Anyone MG folks know about it, where it might be discussed on
>> the internet?
>>
>>
>>
>> I know this ought to appear on the MG list - but it makes one wonder if 
>> the
>> same might be done for Triumph, subject to BMW giving a green light, 
>> which is
>> doubtful.
>>
>> I see that the latest edition of Practical Classics in the UK has
>> announced that British Motor Heritage has joined forces with another
>> specialist to build just 50 MGBGT 'one-offs' to mark the thirty years 
>> that has
>> passed since the last MG left Abingdon. Using the original body jigs, the 
>> cars
>> will use a Mazda 2.0 litre engine and a six speed manual box. Power 
>> output is
>> indicated to be in excess of 210burps and with a slight modification to 
>> the
>> front suspenders. The announcement in the August edition of Practical 
>> Classics
>> didn't give *all* the info, except for the fact that the price is likely 
>> to be
>> in excess of GBP50k - approx 80k US.
>>
>> It would be nice to see a TR6 getting a
>> similar comemmorative treatment but I guess the lederhosen clad mob in 
>> Munchen
>> would veto it. Perhaps the best that Triumph enthusiasts can hope for is 
>> a
>> barely rebodied version of that so-called 'mini' with some Triumph Globe
>> roundels slapped on the hubcaps?
>>
>> Jonmac
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------------------------
>>
>> Don Scott
>> Calistoga CA USA
>> 1955 MGTF
>> 1962 MGA Mk 2
>> 1973 MGB GT (selling)
>> 1963-7 MGB (seeking)
>> Misc. Japanese cars

From mgmagnette at aol.com  Sat Jul 23 06:43:39 2011
From: mgmagnette at aol.com (John)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:43:39 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'
In-Reply-To: <8A7A17B3DA8345BAA41A3472AE208B38@uw471de61b465c>
References: <CA4F6123.331E2%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<8A7A17B3DA8345BAA41A3472AE208B38@uw471de61b465c>
Message-ID: <95267BD5-3FEE-4BF3-B23B-64C709D603A2@aol.com>


From barrie at look.ca  Sat Jul 23 07:33:46 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:33:46 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'
In-Reply-To: <8A7A17B3DA8345BAA41A3472AE208B38@uw471de61b465c>
References: <CA4F6123.331E2%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<8A7A17B3DA8345BAA41A3472AE208B38@uw471de61b465c>
Message-ID: <E1QkcQD-00009d-OH@zeta.look.ca>

Hans,

You are quite right.  I built a complete MGB GT V8, body chemically 
stripped and repaired, professionally painted, all new brakes stuff 
and hubs, Rover V8 engine slightly modified from RPi in UK, new 
leather interior, new windscreen, everything re-chromed, new wire 
wheels & tyres, etc etc - In other words a new car!!    And it cost 
considerably less than this jubilee model.   I have to assume that it 
will have 25 speakers. Wilton carpet, cruise control, sixty five 
do-dads, electric windows, doors, ashtray, boot lid, glove 
box...........in other words everything an MG is not !!  Hate to say 
it but ....how much is the Miata?


At 05:40 AM 7/23/2011, Hans Duinhoven wrote:
>MGB GT body still is being made per order.
>So why not make it a special version.
>Last week I visited the BMIHT during a weeks vacation trip to 
>England and had a look in the official papers wherein my BGT is registered.
>Quite impressive!
>
>Friendly people helped us around and we had a great day.
>We (my son Dave and I) have met Paul Hunt, who specially came to see us.
>
>We had a special look at the BGT, which was divided into two parts - 
>we even could walk between the two parts and look closely how the car is built.
>There was no indication at the site mentioning the BGT would be made 
>for any special reason.
>
>The amount of money asked for this jubilee car I think is a lot.
>I appreciate there is a lot of work included, but on the market 
>there are more original GT's for sale, which can be made to a 
>pristine status for less than half the money.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Hans
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Heim" <max_heim at sbcglobal.net>
>To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 2:17 AM
>Subject: Re: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'
>
>
>>Haven't heard about this one.
>>
>>There's a good reason it wouldn't be done with a Triumph -- that's a
>>body-on-frame design. With the MGB, if you have all the body stampings, you
>>have the whole car. With the Triumph, all you have is a pile of panels
>>sitting on the shop floor.
>>
>>
>>
>>Max Heim
>>'66 MGB GHN3L76149
>>If you're near Mountain View, CA,
>>it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>>
>>
>>on 7/22/11 4:24 PM, Don at don at napanet.net wrote:
>>
>>>I no longer own a Triumph, but I am still on the list.  Just got
>>>this.  Anyone MG folks know about it, where it might be discussed on
>>>the internet?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I know this ought to appear on the MG list - but it makes one wonder if the
>>>same might be done for Triumph, subject to BMW giving a green 
>>>light, which is
>>>doubtful.
>>>
>>>I see that the latest edition of Practical Classics in the UK has
>>>announced that British Motor Heritage has joined forces with another
>>>specialist to build just 50 MGBGT 'one-offs' to mark the thirty 
>>>years that has
>>>passed since the last MG left Abingdon. Using the original body 
>>>jigs, the cars
>>>will use a Mazda 2.0 litre engine and a six speed manual box. 
>>>Power output is
>>>indicated to be in excess of 210burps and with a slight modification to the
>>>front suspenders. The announcement in the August edition of 
>>>Practical Classics
>>>didn't give *all* the info, except for the fact that the price is 
>>>likely to be
>>>in excess of GBP50k - approx 80k US.
>>>
>>>It would be nice to see a TR6 getting a
>>>similar comemmorative treatment but I guess the lederhosen clad 
>>>mob in Munchen
>>>would veto it. Perhaps the best that Triumph enthusiasts can hope for is a
>>>barely rebodied version of that so-called 'mini' with some Triumph Globe
>>>roundels slapped on the hubcaps?
>>>
>>>Jonmac
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>---------------------------
>>>
>>>Don Scott
>>>Calistoga CA USA
>>>1955 MGTF
>>>1962 MGA Mk 2
>>>1973 MGB GT (selling)
>>>1963-7 MGB (seeking)
>>>Misc. Japanese cars
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From pryner at verizon.net  Sat Jul 23 08:17:18 2011
From: pryner at verizon.net (Peter Ryner)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 10:17:18 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Fw: [DiRT] Spray on Chrome paint demo by Jay Leno
Message-ID: <7CC7280E2D804A06A19EB21225939818@PetePC>

I just received this from my Dodge list.  Has anyone tried this product? 
Looks like a wonderful solution for LBC chrome parts!
Pete

Subject: [DiRT] Spray on Chrome paint demo by Jay Leno


> http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/spray-on-chrome/1232328/
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 23 09:03:59 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:03:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'
In-Reply-To: <8A7A17B3DA8345BAA41A3472AE208B38@uw471de61b465c>
Message-ID: <1311433439.78846.YahooMailClassic@web112110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 7/23/11, Hans Duinhoven <h.duinhoven at planet.nl> wrote:


> The amount of money asked for this jubilee car I think is a
> lot.
> I appreciate there is a lot of work included, but on the
> market there are more original GT's for sale, which can be
> made to a pristine status for less than half the money.

And here in the US, there's no way the federal regulators
would let such a car into the country.  You'd probably have
to crash-test more than they're building.

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 23 09:08:33 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:08:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] MG Weather
Message-ID: <1311433713.78124.YahooMailClassic@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Wow, after a summer with clouds, rain and temperatures in
the 60s (upper 10's for you international types :-)  ),
we/re finally seeing some real summer weather here in
the Pacific Northwest.  I changed the oil in my MGA
three weeks ago and haven't been able to drive it
since!  Of course, I also have to cut the grass this
weekend.  I understand the eastern US is having a heat
wave.  Maybe some of it has finally made it here.

David Breneman         david_breneman at yahoo.com

From mike at sportscarslimited.net  Sat Jul 23 12:46:33 2011
From: mike at sportscarslimited.net (Michael Singleton)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 11:46:33 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'
In-Reply-To: <CA4F6123.331E2%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
References: <20110722232420.052F8B0EB6@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
	<CA4F6123.331E2%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <99CF4020D163430892B67AEE5C25582F@scloffice>

 Actually, I don't know why it couldn't be done. A frame isn't that
difficult to fabricate, in fact, TR6 frames are available from Ratco. The
body panels are still available, and the mechanical parts from a BMW M3 (6
cyl) quite likely could be grafted on. That would be really cool.

Don't know about costs or prices, although Morgan's seems to be able to pull
it off regularly using a number of similar components. 


Michael Singleton
Sportscars Ltd
10170 Croydon Way
Suite M
Sacramento, CA 95826
 
(916)366-0330
mike at sportscarslimited.net
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Max Heim
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 5:17 PM
To: MG List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'

Haven't heard about this one.

There's a good reason it wouldn't be done with a Triumph -- that's a
body-on-frame design. With the MGB, if you have all the body stampings, you
have the whole car. With the Triumph, all you have is a pile of panels
sitting on the shop floor.



Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 7/22/11 4:24 PM, Don at don at napanet.net wrote:

> I no longer own a Triumph, but I am still on the list.  Just got this.  
> Anyone MG folks know about it, where it might be discussed on the 
> internet?
> 
> 
> 
> I know this ought to appear on the MG list - but it makes one wonder 
> if the same might be done for Triumph, subject to BMW giving a green 
> light, which is doubtful.
> 
> I see that the latest edition of Practical Classics in the UK has 
> announced that British Motor Heritage has joined forces with another 
> specialist to build just 50 MGBGT 'one-offs' to mark the thirty years 
> that has passed since the last MG left Abingdon. Using the original 
> body jigs, the cars will use a Mazda 2.0 litre engine and a six speed 
> manual box. Power output is indicated to be in excess of 210burps and 
> with a slight modification to the front suspenders. The announcement 
> in the August edition of Practical Classics didn't give *all* the 
> info, except for the fact that the price is likely to be in excess of
GBP50k - approx 80k US.
> 
> It would be nice to see a TR6 getting a similar comemmorative 
> treatment but I guess the lederhosen clad mob in Munchen would veto 
> it. Perhaps the best that Triumph enthusiasts can hope for is a barely 
> rebodied version of that so-called 'mini' with some Triumph Globe 
> roundels slapped on the hubcaps?
> 
> Jonmac
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> ---------------------------
> 
> Don Scott
> Calistoga CA USA
> 1955 MGTF
> 1962 MGA Mk 2
> 1973 MGB GT (selling)
> 1963-7 MGB (seeking)
> Misc. Japanese cars
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mike at sportscarslimited.net

From g.schnittke at comcast.net  Sat Jul 23 17:40:26 2011
From: g.schnittke at comcast.net (Glenn Schnittke)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:40:26 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG Weather
Message-ID: <4E2B5BEA.4000406@comcast.net>

Don't wish for something you don't really want.

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Sun Jul 24 03:31:22 2011
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:31:22 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] MG Weather
References: <1311433713.78124.YahooMailClassic@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <409D93D1EDAB4A359771F7DCFA3E3B41@uw471de61b465c>

Here in the Netherlands we're drowning.
Funny thing is my wife always has been telling me, that we should not go to 
England for a vacation.
I'm back home for a week now after a weeks vacation in England with my GT.
Except one day we have had great weather, where the Netherlands guys still 
were soaking.

Hope it will end soon.
Did some little maintenance on the GT, but like to roll again.
UK again seems to have the dryer weather again...

Cheers,

Hans

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Breneman" <david_breneman at yahoo.com>
To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:08 PM
Subject: [Mgs] MG Weather


> Wow, after a summer with clouds, rain and temperatures in
> the 60s (upper 10's for you international types :-)  ),
> we/re finally seeing some real summer weather here in
> the Pacific Northwest.  I changed the oil in my MGA
> three weeks ago and haven't been able to drive it
> since!  Of course, I also have to cut the grass this
> weekend.  I understand the eastern US is having a heat
> wave.  Maybe some of it has finally made it here.
>
> David Breneman         david_breneman at yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl 

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jul 25 08:07:16 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:07:16 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'
References: <20110722232420.052F8B0EB6@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
Message-ID: <C610323AD41F40DEA6F45E4697090C4A@paul>

I'm not sure whether BMH have 'joined forces'.  This link
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/06/british-tuner-frontline-to-build-an-mgb-with-mazda-mx-5-motor.html
talks about Frontline building a Mazda-powered MGB which happens to be using
shells from BMH, which isn't the same thing, and I can't see anything
immediately on the BMH site.  The article includes the $80k price, but
doesn't mention anything about it being a GT.  A GT is shown with the text,
but saying it is just a file photo i.e. not from the builder and my first
thought was 'why a GT and not a roadster?'.  It also says 240bhp rather than
210.

Their comment "Frontline wants to bring you the old with a some new
technology, so you can enjoy your classic on the road, rather than it
steaming on the hard shoulder.
"Frontline will be dumping the miserable, old four-cylinder of the original
MGB..."

should really win the hearts of MG owners.

I'll believe it when I see it.





----- Original Message ----- 
> I see that the latest edition of Practical Classics in the UK has
> announced that British Motor Heritage has joined forces with another
> specialist to build just 50 MGBGT 'one-offs'

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul 25 10:00:56 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:00:56 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] 50 MGB GT 'one-offs'
In-Reply-To: <C610323AD41F40DEA6F45E4697090C4A@paul>
Message-ID: <CA52E148.33276%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

"Miserable"... That's harsh.



on 7/25/11 7:07 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

> I'm not sure whether BMH have 'joined forces'.  This link
> http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/06/british-tuner-frontline-to-build-an
> -mgb-with-mazda-mx-5-motor.html
> talks about Frontline building a Mazda-powered MGB which happens to be using
> shells from BMH, which isn't the same thing, and I can't see anything
> immediately on the BMH site.  The article includes the $80k price, but
> doesn't mention anything about it being a GT.  A GT is shown with the text,
> but saying it is just a file photo i.e. not from the builder and my first
> thought was 'why a GT and not a roadster?'.  It also says 240bhp rather than
> 210.
> 
> Their comment "Frontline wants to bring you the old with a some new
> technology, so you can enjoy your classic on the road, rather than it
> steaming on the hard shoulder.
> "Frontline will be dumping the miserable, old four-cylinder of the original
> MGB..."
> 
> should really win the hearts of MG owners.
> 
> I'll believe it when I see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> I see that the latest edition of Practical Classics in the UK has
>> announced that British Motor Heritage has joined forces with another
>> specialist to build just 50 MGBGT 'one-offs'
> _______________________________________________


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From mgbob at juno.com  Mon Jul 25 13:11:20 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 19:11:20 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] MG Weather
Message-ID: <20110725.151120.7221.12@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

  In coastal Connecticut USA we had warm weather Friday.  Air temp at my house
was 101 F.   Coolant temp of my TD reached 89 C, on a long grade.
  The Toyota was, once again, in the shop.
Bob



---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Hans Duinhoven" <h.duinhoven at planet.nl>
To: "David Breneman" <david_breneman at yahoo.com>, <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG Weather
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:31:22 +0200

Here in the Netherlands we're drowning.
Funny thing is my wife always has been telling me, that we should not go to
England for a vacation.
I'm back home for a week now after a weeks vacation in England with my GT.
Except one day we have had great weather, where the Netherlands guys still
were soaking.

Hope it will end soon.
Did some little maintenance on the GT, but like to roll again.
UK again seems to have the dryer weather again...

Cheers,

Hans

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Breneman" <david_breneman at yahoo.com>
To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:08 PM
Subject: [Mgs] MG Weather


> Wow, after a summer with clouds, rain and temperatures in
> the 60s (upper 10's for you international types :-)  ),
> we/re finally seeing some real summer weather here in
> the Pacific Northwest.  I changed the oil in my MGA
> three weeks ago and haven't been able to drive it
> since!  Of course, I also have to cut the grass this
> weekend.  I understand the eastern US is having a heat
> wave.  Maybe some of it has finally made it here.
>
> David Breneman         david_breneman at yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From Craig.Brownlee at oneok.com  Tue Jul 26 11:57:09 2011
From: Craig.Brownlee at oneok.com (Brownlee, Craig)
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 12:57:09 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG Weather
In-Reply-To: <1311433713.78124.YahooMailClassic@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1311433713.78124.YahooMailClassic@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8F7371A00ADEE44EA4DDAF565305D8700400E132@SRVMAILMBX6OKE.oneok.com>

I would love to share some of our heat with you.  This summer has been brutal
here in Oklahoma.  So far in July we have had 2 days that the high temperature
was below 100F (38-40C).  Usually June is a great month for running around in
the B but about half of June was over 100 too.  I'm hoping that by September
it will cool down some.

We only had a trace of rain in July too.

Oklahoma weather has been so strange this year.  In January we had two snow
storms that drop 40-inches of snow (normal year is 6-inches total) and we hit
-22F (-30C) at my house.


    



Craig A. Brownlee, PE
Oklahoma Natural Gas Company
Director of Operations - Eastern Region
918.606.4182 (cell)
918.831.8201 (office)
918.831.8213 (fax)
5848 E. 15th Street
Tulsa, OK 74112
www.oklahomanaturalgas.com



-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of David Breneman
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 10:09 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] MG Weather

Wow, after a summer with clouds, rain and temperatures in
the 60s (upper 10's for you international types :-)  ),
we/re finally seeing some real summer weather here in
the Pacific Northwest.  I changed the oil in my MGA
three weeks ago and haven't been able to drive it
since!  Of course, I also have to cut the grass this
weekend.  I understand the eastern US is having a heat
wave.  Maybe some of it has finally made it here.

David Breneman         david_breneman at yahoo.com
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/craig.brownlee at oneok.com

From allan.thompson at ntlworld.com  Tue Jul 26 17:30:35 2011
From: allan.thompson at ntlworld.com (Thompson Allan)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 00:30:35 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] MGB 1977 brakes...
Message-ID: <CABrxh4FJHi+5HfsJdL9jp4HU7Bz2aP27TxDt-X9kGOEPJjhZ=g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

My wife and I had a great day out in Cheshire on an MG Run called 'the
Cheshire Romp' travelling along many lanes that were a single car width..
until the brake pedal started to lose its strength, eventually losing
every vestige of resistance just before a major crossroads!
Fortunately, I managed to bring the car to a halt before the junction with a
combination of gears and hand-brake... and there was a pub opposite which
supplied a superb lunch and a pint of refreshing beer! We were trailered
home... which is another story...
The next day I looked into the system and it appears that the seals in the
servo had failed.. so that when the pedal was operated, fluid was drawn into
the servo.
I have obtained another servo off eBay for a very reasonable price - half
the price of the seals... but we'll see when I fit it!
My question is whether anyone has experience with a fluid level detector in
the master cylinder...
This one seems to fit the bill!
<
http://www.v8register.net/FilesDHT/V8%20Hampshire%20Tour%202011%20flyer%20090
711.pdf
>

The the kit is #59 + carriage (#5) + VAT = #76.80

Seems quite expensive... but then it could be well worth it!

Anyone?

Allan
Lincolnshire
UK

From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com  Tue Jul 26 21:47:11 2011
From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews)
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:47:11 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] MG Weather
In-Reply-To: <8F7371A00ADEE44EA4DDAF565305D8700400E132@SRVMAILMBX6OKE.oneok.com>
References: <1311433713.78124.YahooMailClassic@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8F7371A00ADEE44EA4DDAF565305D8700400E132@SRVMAILMBX6OKE.oneok.com>
Message-ID: <CAEUYfyM66B-No=4wkJ2F41e8wyMcOqo1Wv5NqOo5BCmESx9qog@mail.gmail.com>

Move to California! This summer has been unusually cool.

Simon

On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Brownlee, Craig
<Craig.Brownlee at oneok.com> wrote:
> I would love to share some of our heat with you.  This summer has been
brutal
> here in Oklahoma.  So far in July we have had 2 days that the high
temperature
> was below 100F (38-40C).  Usually June is a great month for running around
in
> the B but about half of June was over 100 too.  I'm hoping that by
September
> it will cool down some.
>
> We only had a trace of rain in July too.
>
> Oklahoma weather has been so strange this year.  In January we had two snow
> storms that drop 40-inches of snow (normal year is 6-inches total) and we
hit
> -22F (-30C) at my house.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Craig A. Brownlee, PE
> Oklahoma Natural Gas Company
> Director of Operations - Eastern Region
> 918.606.4182 (cell)
> 918.831.8201 (office)
> 918.831.8213 (fax)
> 5848 E. 15th Street
> Tulsa, OK 74112
> www.oklahomanaturalgas.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf
> Of David Breneman
> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 10:09 AM
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Mgs] MG Weather
>
> Wow, after a summer with clouds, rain and temperatures in
> the 60s (upper 10's for you international types :-)  ),
> we/re finally seeing some real summer weather here in
> the Pacific Northwest.  I changed the oil in my MGA
> three weeks ago and haven't been able to drive it
> since!  Of course, I also have to cut the grass this
> weekend.  I understand the eastern US is having a heat
> wave.  Maybe some of it has finally made it here.
>
> David Breneman         david_breneman at yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/craig.brownlee at oneok.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Wed Jul 27 07:26:01 2011
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 09:26:01 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MGB 1977 brakes...
In-Reply-To: <CABrxh4FJHi+5HfsJdL9jp4HU7Bz2aP27TxDt-X9kGOEPJjhZ=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABrxh4FJHi+5HfsJdL9jp4HU7Bz2aP27TxDt-X9kGOEPJjhZ=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <014901cc4c60$ba658ad0$2f30a070$@com>

I don't know of anything to fit the MG, but I do know a mid 80s VW cap will
fit a 60s Land-Rover and it has a level switch. You may want to measure the
cap on the MG and see what more modern cars may have used the same size. 

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK


-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Thompson Allan
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 7:31 PM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] MGB 1977 brakes...

Hi there,

My wife and I had a great day out in Cheshire on an MG Run called 'the
Cheshire Romp' travelling along many lanes that were a single car width..
until the brake pedal started to lose its strength, eventually losing
every vestige of resistance just before a major crossroads!
Fortunately, I managed to bring the car to a halt before the junction with a
combination of gears and hand-brake... and there was a pub opposite which
supplied a superb lunch and a pint of refreshing beer! We were trailered
home... which is another story...
The next day I looked into the system and it appears that the seals in the
servo had failed.. so that when the pedal was operated, fluid was drawn into
the servo.
I have obtained another servo off eBay for a very reasonable price - half
the price of the seals... but we'll see when I fit it!
My question is whether anyone has experience with a fluid level detector in
the master cylinder...
This one seems to fit the bill!
<
http://www.v8register.net/FilesDHT/V8%20Hampshire%20Tour%202011%20flyer%2009
0
711.pdf
>

The the kit is #59 + carriage (#5) + VAT = #76.80

Seems quite expensive... but then it could be well worth it!

Anyone?

Allan
Lincolnshire
UK
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/steve at coastaldatasystems.com

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Wed Jul 27 13:07:02 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:07:02 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
Message-ID: <D5AE91FE-0F60-43A7-91A4-CF2CC3D0E53D@gmail.com>

I took this morning off to handle an issue with my daily driver, and since I
was in the garage, and dirty, I decided to change the oil on the MGB (77).

When I finished, and started the car to check pressure and then level, I was
getting no pressure. I look over, oil is pumping out. Pulled the oil filter,
and the rubber gasket came out of it's channel.

I have this trouble seemingly ever other year. I really dislike the inverted
filter mount. Are there alternatives? Being a 77, I have the larger starter so
I guess an early hanging filter will not work.

Paul.

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul 27 13:47:23 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:47:23 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
In-Reply-To: <D5AE91FE-0F60-43A7-91A4-CF2CC3D0E53D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA55B95B.333F8%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

Doesn't the 77 use a spin-on filter? I have that adapter installed on my 66
(since I have the later 4-syncro OD tranny and starter), and the only gasket
I'm aware of is built-in to the filter cartridge. I've never had that come
loose.

on 7/27/11 12:07 PM, Paul Root at ptrmgb at gmail.com wrote:

> I took this morning off to handle an issue with my daily driver, and since I
> was in the garage, and dirty, I decided to change the oil on the MGB (77).
> 
> When I finished, and started the car to check pressure and then level, I was
> getting no pressure. I look over, oil is pumping out. Pulled the oil filter,
> and the rubber gasket came out of it's channel.
> 
> I have this trouble seemingly ever other year. I really dislike the inverted
> filter mount. Are there alternatives? Being a 77, I have the larger starter so
> I guess an early hanging filter will not work.
> 
> Paul.



--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Wed Jul 27 14:51:06 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:51:06 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
In-Reply-To: <CA55B95B.333F8%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
References: <CA55B95B.333F8%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <4161B307-621D-4CDD-8E4B-CB19D15A8911@gmail.com>

Yep,
	That's the one that came loose. This filter sat on my shelf in the garage
over the winter. That may have something to do with it.

Paul.


On Jul 27, 2011, at 2:47 PM, Max Heim wrote:

> Doesn't the 77 use a spin-on filter? I have that adapter installed on my 66
> (since I have the later 4-syncro OD tranny and starter), and the only
gasket
> I'm aware of is built-in to the filter cartridge. I've never had that come
> loose.
>
> on 7/27/11 12:07 PM, Paul Root at ptrmgb at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I took this morning off to handle an issue with my daily driver, and since
I
>> was in the garage, and dirty, I decided to change the oil on the MGB (77).
>>
>> When I finished, and started the car to check pressure and then level, I
was
>> getting no pressure. I look over, oil is pumping out. Pulled the oil
filter,
>> and the rubber gasket came out of it's channel.
>>
>> I have this trouble seemingly ever other year. I really dislike the
inverted
>> filter mount. Are there alternatives? Being a 77, I have the larger starter
so
>> I guess an early hanging filter will not work.
>>
>> Paul.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Mountain View, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com

From mgbob at juno.com  Wed Jul 27 15:27:15 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:27:15 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
Message-ID: <20110727.172715.10266.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>

Paul,
  Your engine should be fitted with the spin-on filter. It is inverted, not
hanging, but the spin-on type works well. I have not heard before of the
gasket problem you mention.
  The filter is not a cannister type, with a bolt running through it, is it?
Though their brackets will fit all engines, and were used on engines for a
couple of years, the inverted cannister filters are far from ideal. They have
gasket issues and, worse, about a pint of oil must be pumped up into the
filter before the bearings are supplied with any.
  Take a look at Moss catalogue, Oil Filters, and see the three types on the
page.
Bob




---------- Original Message ----------
From: Paul Root <ptrmgb at gmail.com>
To: MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:07:02 -0500

I took this morning off to handle an issue with my daily driver, and since I
was in the garage, and dirty, I decided to change the oil on the MGB (77).

When I finished, and started the car to check pressure and then level, I was
getting no pressure. I look over, oil is pumping out. Pulled the oil filter,
and the rubber gasket came out of it's channel.

I have this trouble seemingly ever other year. I really dislike the inverted
filter mount. Are there alternatives? Being a 77, I have the larger starter
so
I guess an early hanging filter will not work.

Paul.
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Wed Jul 27 15:59:49 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:59:49 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
In-Reply-To: <20110727.172715.10266.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20110727.172715.10266.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <E1E46C28-5EF6-4E8A-9FE5-CF8728E1C052@gmail.com>

Yes, mine is the inverted, spin on type. I hate it. Makes a big mess when
changing. And the threads are very soft aluminum, easy to cross-thread/strip.
I did that 6-7 years ago.
The one I have now isn't too bad, but I never seem to get it tight the first
time. I double checked, but the gasket coming out did me in this time.

Sitting for a year in the Minnesota cold garage may have compromised the
integrity of the gasket.

On Jul 27, 2011, at 4:27 PM, mgbob at juno.com wrote:

> Paul,
>  Your engine should be fitted with the spin-on filter. It is inverted, not
hanging, but the spin-on type works well. I have not heard before of the
gasket problem you mention.
>  The filter is not a cannister type, with a bolt running through it, is it?
Though their brackets will fit all engines, and were used on engines for a
couple of years, the inverted cannister filters are far from ideal. They have
gasket issues and, worse, about a pint of oil must be pumped up into the
filter before the bearings are supplied with any.
>  Take a look at Moss catalogue, Oil Filters, and see the three types on the
page.
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Paul Root <ptrmgb at gmail.com>
> To: MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:07:02 -0500
>
> I took this morning off to handle an issue with my daily driver, and since
I
> was in the garage, and dirty, I decided to change the oil on the MGB (77).
>
> When I finished, and started the car to check pressure and then level, I
was
> getting no pressure. I look over, oil is pumping out. Pulled the oil
filter,
> and the rubber gasket came out of it's channel.
>
> I have this trouble seemingly ever other year. I really dislike the
inverted
> filter mount. Are there alternatives? Being a 77, I have the larger starter
so
> I guess an early hanging filter will not work.
>
> Paul.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 28 02:15:52 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:15:52 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
References: <D5AE91FE-0F60-43A7-91A4-CF2CC3D0E53D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E5B8810DA86441FB9E16A511247F48AD@paul>

I don't think the filter being hanging or inverted is the issue, but the 
seal.

I've had exactly the same thing happen to me three out of the last five or 
so years.  Well, I say exactly but in my case the seal seems to seal itself 
after pushing out about half a cupful of oil.  The first time it happened 
(after 17 years or so without a problem) was the second time I had used a 
Volvo filter.  The next Volvo filter I used it happened again, so I 
suspected some issue with the filter.  This year I used a Mann and the same 
thing happened again.  Whilst the Volvo filter has no tightening 
instructions certainly the second and third times I was careful not to 
over-tighten, only turning about 180 degrees after contact, but the Mann 
says 270 degrees.  I also oil the seal on the new filter, and don't wipe off 
the face it contacts.  Maybe it's some generic thing with the rubber used 
for the seal, or the adhesive, but yours is the first instance of this I 
have come across apart from my own.

As for inverted or hanging - give me inverted any day.  Yes oil dribbles out 
while you are unscrewing, but the canister stays oil-free and on the MGB at 
least that is relatively easily trapped by positioning newspaper under the 
filter head to form a bowl.  My V8 is hanging and that also dribbles oil as 
soon as you start unscrewing, and that runs down the side of the filter 
making it nigh-on impossible to turn the filter while wearing latex gloves 
without wrapping masking tape or similar round the canister to start with. 
That also needs newspaper pulled up and round the canister to catch the 
leaking oil.  My ZS is even worse as that filter is below the engine, so not 
only do you have the aforementioned problems but the oil is running up your 
hands while unscrewing.  It's relatively easy to punch a hole in the ZS 
canister from below and let it drain before fully unscrewing it, but only 
after you have *started* unscrewing it (I hope I don't have to explain why 
...)!  That's much less of an option on the V8.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> When I finished, and started the car to check pressure and then level, I 
> was
> getting no pressure. I look over, oil is pumping out. Pulled the oil 
> filter,
> and the rubber gasket came out of it's channel.
>
> I have this trouble seemingly ever other year. I really dislike the 
> inverted
> filter mount. 

From aschneider at shaw.ca  Thu Jul 28 12:54:08 2011
From: aschneider at shaw.ca (Aubrey Schneider)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:54:08 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] wicked mechanic!
Message-ID: <DA3469EDDD874F179111BE0502EC05EB@owneraur2ue3rs>

Hi,

My name is Aubrey & I was involved with the list up to 7 yrs ago. Pse bear
with me.
After being idled for 7 yrs, due to my health problems,I wanted to put it back
on the road.
I was an OF then but now I'm a bigger one & don't remember much how things go
back.

I was recommended to a "so called " excellent fellow who said yes he will get
it through Air Care
( our smog inspection ).

Long story short.

He had 2 attempts to get the vehicle running correctly & although it passed
Air Care, it runs ok, with the following problems.

The car overheats.
He said he had to change TDC. Now misses.
Have 94 octane in & it still runs on.
Has ok performance
Chews gas.

I'm sorry to ask you folks but I cannot find this problem in the archives.

Could someone direct me where to look, or if you choose to comment I'd be most
grateful.

Thank you very much

Aubrey Schneider 75 B

Beautiful British Columbia

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 05:56:14 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:56:14 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
In-Reply-To: <48235.24248.qm@smtp107.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <CA55B95B.333F8%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<4161B307-621D-4CDD-8E4B-CB19D15A8911@gmail.com>
	<48235.24248.qm@smtp107.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D480B4A5-53EA-4C26-8385-4FC5A33B316C@gmail.com>

I only use the Wix or the NAPA Gold. This one was a NAPA Gold 1068.


On Jul 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, Barney Gaylord wrote:

> Faulty filters.  Switch to a dfferent brand.
>
> I've been using the late MGB inverted spin-on filter adapter in my MGA for
about 20 years and 200,000 miles with no problem, and I really like the thing.
I guess that I've changed the filter about 50 times at 4000 mile intervals (2
to 5 times per year).  I usually use NAPA Gold oil filter number 1068 (made by
WIX).  Good stuff.
>
> Barney Gaylord
> 1958 MGA with an attitude
> http://MGAguru.com
>
>
> At 03:51 PM 7/27/2011 -0500, Paul Root wrote:
>> Yep,
>>        That's the one that came loose. This filter sat on my shelf in the
garage over the winter. That may have something to do with it.
>> ....
>
>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 2:47 PM, Max Heim wrote:
>>
>> > Doesn't the 77 use a spin-on filter? I have that adapter installed on my
66 (since I have the later 4-syncro OD tranny and starter), and the only
gasket I'm aware of is built-in to the filter cartridge. I've never had that
come loose.
>
>
>> > on 7/27/11 12:07 PM, Paul Root at ptrmgb at gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> I took this morning off to handle an issue with my daily driver, and
since I was in the garage, and dirty, I decided to change the oil on the MGB
(77).
>> >>
>> >> When I finished, and started the car to check pressure and then level, I
was getting no pressure. I look over, oil is pumping out. Pulled the oil
filter, and the rubber gasket came out of it's channel.
>> >>
>> >> I have this trouble seemingly ever other year. I really dislike the
inverted filter mount. Are there alternatives? Being a 77, I have the larger
starter so I guess an early hanging filter will not work.

From pryner at verizon.net  Thu Jul 28 16:28:02 2011
From: pryner at verizon.net (Peter Ryner)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:28:02 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] su carb overhaul source
Message-ID: <927C15D95DD6445FB28CC7842824B324@PetePC>

I need to rebuild a pair of HS-4 carbs.  They need a full overhaul including
throttle shaft bushing replacements.  After finding the best parts cost on the
web I came up with $170 for parts for both carbs.  I checked with the CAR
component of the RF and they will do the throttle shafts for $135/pr.  That
brings the total to $305.  I found SUCarbs.com on the web and they will do the
whole job for $325 including all needed parts and shipping.  They also polish
the dashpots, use stainless screws and will include cleaning the heat shield
and manifold at no extra cost.

Has anyone had any experience with this company?  Sounds great but I'd like
some feedback first.
TIA
Pete

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 05:58:06 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:58:06 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
In-Reply-To: <886183.95888.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <20110727.172715.10266.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>
	<E1E46C28-5EF6-4E8A-9FE5-CF8728E1C052@gmail.com>
	<886183.95888.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A8EDB17-48D8-4D50-84FD-DFD9160FC9DF@gmail.com>

Ah, now this helps. I'd punched holes in the middle, but never on the edge
before. Since it never seemed to do much, I haven't bothered in a long time.

On Jul 28, 2011, at 1:18 AM, Barney Gaylord wrote:

> To avoid the big mess, before drianing the oil punch two holes in the top
end of the filter to let air in, one near the center, and one close to the
outer edge (inside and outside of the filter media.  Then drian the oil and
when finished put the plug back in.  By that time all of the oil will have
drained down from the filter, leaving only a tablespoon or so in the bottom
that you can catch with a rag when you uncsrew the filter.  Always works for
me.
>
> When the filters were white I would always use a black felt marker to write
the date and mileage on top of the filter (always in view when you check the
dip stick).  Doesn't work so well on a black filter.
>
> Barney Gaylord
> 1958 MGA with an attitude
> http://MGAguru.com
>
>
> At 04:59 PM 7/27/2011 -0500, Paul Root wrote:
>> Yes, mine is the inverted, spin on type. I hate it. Makes a big mess when
changing. ....
>> ....

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 06:13:03 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:13:03 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
In-Reply-To: <E5B8810DA86441FB9E16A511247F48AD@paul>
References: <D5AE91FE-0F60-43A7-91A4-CF2CC3D0E53D@gmail.com>
	<E5B8810DA86441FB9E16A511247F48AD@paul>
Message-ID: <7B254D05-514D-40AA-B75C-2F7490F5FAB1@gmail.com>

Of my 3 cars, the MG is the middle in terms of oil changing pain.

The Subaru is the best, the filter is right out in front, with nothing around
it.

The Mazda6 is up above a half shaft with not quite enough room on either side
to get it out without a lot of fiddling. It leaks out and runs down the filter
as you are loosening, Then you have to tip it and make a mess to ultimately
get it out. Maybe a punch hole in the center is the way to go for that too?



On Jul 28, 2011, at 3:15 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:

> I don't think the filter being hanging or inverted is the issue, but the
seal.
>
> I've had exactly the same thing happen to me three out of the last five or
so years.  Well, I say exactly but in my case the seal seems to seal itself
after pushing out about half a cupful of oil.  The first time it happened
(after 17 years or so without a problem) was the second time I had used a
Volvo filter.  The next Volvo filter I used it happened again, so I suspected
some issue with the filter.  This year I used a Mann and the same thing
happened again.  Whilst the Volvo filter has no tightening instructions
certainly the second and third times I was careful not to over-tighten, only
turning about 180 degrees after contact, but the Mann says 270 degrees.  I
also oil the seal on the new filter, and don't wipe off the face it contacts.
Maybe it's some generic thing with the rubber used for the seal, or the
adhesive, but yours is the first instance of this I have come across apart
from my own.
>
> As for inverted or hanging - give me inverted any day.  Yes oil dribbles out
while you are unscrewing, but the canister stays oil-free and on the MGB at
least that is relatively easily trapped by positioning newspaper under the
filter head to form a bowl.  My V8 is hanging and that also dribbles oil as
soon as you start unscrewing, and that runs down the side of the filter making
it nigh-on impossible to turn the filter while wearing latex gloves without
wrapping masking tape or similar round the canister to start with. That also
needs newspaper pulled up and round the canister to catch the leaking oil.  My
ZS is even worse as that filter is below the engine, so not only do you have
the aforementioned problems but the oil is running up your hands while
unscrewing.  It's relatively easy to punch a hole in the ZS canister from
below and let it drain before fully unscrewing it, but only after you have
*started* unscrewing it (I hope I don't have to explain why ...)!  That's much
less of an option on the V8.
>
> PaulH.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> When I finished, and started the car to check pressure and then level, I
was
>> getting no pressure. I look over, oil is pumping out. Pulled the oil
filter,
>> and the rubber gasket came out of it's channel.
>>
>> I have this trouble seemingly ever other year. I really dislike the
inverted
>> filter mount.

From mgbob at juno.com  Thu Jul 28 11:54:31 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:54:31 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
Message-ID: <20110728.135431.19986.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

  I keep a couple of spin-on filters on a shelf in my garage, but it's never
as cold in CT as in Minnesota.   The instructions with the Wix filters I use
say to wipe a film of oil onto the gasket face before installation, then to
turn 1/4 turn (or something slight) after gasket touches the filter bracket.
  TD owners sometimes report that their gaskets in the horizontal cannister
type filter will twist and bunch up, then leak profusely.  It's not happened
to me, but make a real mess, they say. I suspect that happens because the
cannister turns against a dry gasket (they have a square-cut O ring) and the
ring moves and bunches.
Bob


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Paul Root <ptrmgb at gmail.com>
To: "mgbob at juno.com" <mgbob at juno.com>
Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:59:49 -0500

Yes, mine is the inverted, spin on type. I hate it. Makes a big mess when
changing. And the threads are very soft aluminum, easy to cross-thread/strip.
I did that 6-7 years ago.
The one I have now isn't too bad, but I never seem to get it tight the first
time. I double checked, but the gasket coming out did me in this time.

Sitting for a year in the Minnesota cold garage may have compromised the
integrity of the gasket.

On Jul 27, 2011, at 4:27 PM, mgbob at juno.com wrote:

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 29 02:15:47 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:15:47 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
References: <20110727.172715.10266.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com><E1E46C28-5EF6-4E8A-9FE5-CF8728E1C052@gmail.com><886183.95888.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4A8EDB17-48D8-4D50-84FD-DFD9160FC9DF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F6D93EE973D34060A059588C0D61EF71@paul>

Not so sure about that, the inverted filters should have an anti drain-back 
valve on the inlet, and the filter head should have an anti drain-back tube 
going up the middle of the filter.  If the valve is still functional (as it 
should be) the filter will only drain as far as the top of the tube, leaving 
most of the oil still in the filter to come out when you unscrew it. 
Punching a hole in the bottom of a hanging filter *should* stop oil running 
down the outside as you are trying to unscrew it.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
>> To avoid the big mess, before drianing the oil punch two holes in the top
> end of the filter to let air in, one near the center, and one close to the
> outer edge (inside and outside of the filter media.  Then drian the oil 
> and
> when finished put the plug back in.  By that time all of the oil will have
> drained down from the filter, leaving only a tablespoon or so in the 
> bottom
> that you can catch with a rag when you uncsrew the filter. 

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 29 02:36:06 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:36:06 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] wicked mechanic!
References: <DA3469EDDD874F179111BE0502EC05EB@owneraur2ue3rs>
Message-ID: <36F87AC392BE4908A01998B192E65E90@paul>

What do you mean by overheats?  A car is only overheating if it is losing 
coolant or steaming.  However it can run hotter than it should for a very 
wide range of reasons, in two categories.  One is that the cooling system 
isn't capable of getting rid of as much heat as it should, the other is the 
engine is generating more heat than it should.

The first can be caused by things like obstructions anywhere in the cooling 
circuit i.e. debris or sludge, a thermostat not fully opening when it 
should, corroded water pump vanes causing low circulation etc.

The second can be things like tight bearings, incorrect ignition or carb 
settings which should be relatively easy to resolve.

Of course, the gauge could simply be over-reading, so if that is the only 
indication then check the actual coolant temperature with a thermometer.

Running-on is an indication that the combustion chambers are hotter than 
they should be, although mid-70s engines do seem prone to it especially on 
unleaded, and anti-runon valves wee fitted to North American spec from 1973 
on.  This system is closely integrated with the emissions plumbing, problems 
with that usually mean that it won't pass the smog tests, so maybe the 
non-functioning valve (if it's still fitted) has an electrical problem.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aubrey Schneider" <aschneider at shaw.ca>
To: "mg list" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 7:54 PM
Subject: [Mgs] wicked mechanic!


> Hi,
>
> My name is Aubrey & I was involved with the list up to 7 yrs ago. Pse bear
> with me.
> After being idled for 7 yrs, due to my health problems,I wanted to put it 
> back
> on the road.
> I was an OF then but now I'm a bigger one & don't remember much how things 
> go
> back.
>
> I was recommended to a "so called " excellent fellow who said yes he will 
> get
> it through Air Care
> ( our smog inspection ).
>
> Long story short.
>
> He had 2 attempts to get the vehicle running correctly & although it 
> passed
> Air Care, it runs ok, with the following problems.
>
> The car overheats.
> He said he had to change TDC. Now misses.
> Have 94 octane in & it still runs on.
> Has ok performance
> Chews gas.
>
> I'm sorry to ask you folks but I cannot find this problem in the archives.
>
> Could someone direct me where to look, or if you choose to comment I'd be 
> most
> grateful.
>
> Thank you very much
>
> Aubrey Schneider 75 B
>
> Beautiful British Columbia
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk 

From rick_guenard at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jul 29 07:56:18 2011
From: rick_guenard at sbcglobal.net (Richard Guenard)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:56:18 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] wicked mechanic!
In-Reply-To: <36F87AC392BE4908A01998B192E65E90@paul>
References: <DA3469EDDD874F179111BE0502EC05EB@owneraur2ue3rs>
	<36F87AC392BE4908A01998B192E65E90@paul>
Message-ID: <05583B0762B74274B857E97B8D5E4643@Office>

Another issue not touched upon is a clogged water jacket in the block,
especially if the car has sat for a while.  The blockage can cause cracked
head which I experienced.
Best regards, 
Rick G. '78B

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Paul Hunt
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 4:36 AM
To: Aubrey Schneider; mg list
Subject: Re: [Mgs] wicked mechanic!

What do you mean by overheats?  A car is only overheating if it is losing 
coolant or steaming.  However it can run hotter than it should for a very 
wide range of reasons, in two categories.  One is that the cooling system 
isn't capable of getting rid of as much heat as it should, the other is the 
engine is generating more heat than it should.

The first can be caused by things like obstructions anywhere in the cooling 
circuit i.e. debris or sludge, a thermostat not fully opening when it 
should, corroded water pump vanes causing low circulation etc.

The second can be things like tight bearings, incorrect ignition or carb 
settings which should be relatively easy to resolve.

Of course, the gauge could simply be over-reading, so if that is the only 
indication then check the actual coolant temperature with a thermometer.

Running-on is an indication that the combustion chambers are hotter than 
they should be, although mid-70s engines do seem prone to it especially on 
unleaded, and anti-runon valves wee fitted to North American spec from 1973 
on.  This system is closely integrated with the emissions plumbing, problems

with that usually mean that it won't pass the smog tests, so maybe the 
non-functioning valve (if it's still fitted) has an electrical problem.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aubrey Schneider" <aschneider at shaw.ca>
To: "mg list" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 7:54 PM
Subject: [Mgs] wicked mechanic!


> Hi,
>
> My name is Aubrey & I was involved with the list up to 7 yrs ago. Pse bear
> with me.
> After being idled for 7 yrs, due to my health problems,I wanted to put it 
> back
> on the road.
> I was an OF then but now I'm a bigger one & don't remember much how things

> go
> back.
>
> I was recommended to a "so called " excellent fellow who said yes he will 
> get
> it through Air Care
> ( our smog inspection ).
>
> Long story short.
>
> He had 2 attempts to get the vehicle running correctly & although it 
> passed
> Air Care, it runs ok, with the following problems.
>
> The car overheats.
> He said he had to change TDC. Now misses.
> Have 94 octane in & it still runs on.
> Has ok performance
> Chews gas.
>
> I'm sorry to ask you folks but I cannot find this problem in the archives.
>
> Could someone direct me where to look, or if you choose to comment I'd be 
> most
> grateful.
>
> Thank you very much
>
> Aubrey Schneider 75 B
>
> Beautiful British Columbia
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk 
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rick_guenard at sbcglobal.net

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 29 08:09:39 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:09:39 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] wicked mechanic!
References: <DA3469EDDD874F179111BE0502EC05EB@owneraur2ue3rs>
	<36F87AC392BE4908A01998B192E65E90@paul>
	<05583B0762B74274B857E97B8D5E4643@Office>
Message-ID: <B4D78351977A4721B2B13FE0F9428C3B@paul>

"Obstructions in the cooling circuit" includes the block.

----- Original Message ----- 

> Another issue not touched upon is a clogged water jacket in the block,
> especially if the car has sat for a while.

From mmilkevitch at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 29 08:35:54 2011
From: mmilkevitch at yahoo.com (Matthew Milkevitch)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 07:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Temp Gauge Reading High
Message-ID: <1311950154.15457.YahooMailClassic@web39413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello Listers;

A recent post discussed the issue of overheating, and this "jogged" my memory
about a particular issue my '74 MGB-GT is having.  The temp gauge consistently
reads high.  At normal running the needle is just below the "hot" region. 
I've looked into this and the car is not overheating.  I've measured the
temperature of the coolant and it doesn't rise above 180 F. 

I've tried a different gauge and it still does this.  Also, I replaced the
sender unit and this doesn't help the problem either.

Any ideas?  My guess it must be in the wiring somewhere....???

Thanks,
Matt Milkevitch
'74 MGB-GT
Willow Grove, PA

From dcouncill at msubillings.edu  Fri Jul 29 09:07:49 2011
From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:07:49 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] Temp Gauge Reading High
In-Reply-To: <1311950154.15457.YahooMailClassic@web39413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <1311950154.15457.YahooMailClassic@web39413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA1610D7C4@BILEXMB01.msubillings.edu>

There is also the voltage stabilizer - if not properly grounded or not working
right, it will cause the temp gauge to run high. However, the fuel gauge would
also be similarly affected if this is the case.

David Councill
64 B
67 BGT
72 B

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Matthew Milkevitch
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 8:36 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] Temp Gauge Reading High

Hello Listers;

A recent post discussed the issue of overheating, and this "jogged" my memory
about a particular issue my '74 MGB-GT is having.  The temp gauge
consistently
reads high.  At normal running the needle is just below the "hot" region.
I've looked into this and the car is not overheating.  I've measured the
temperature of the coolant and it doesn't rise above 180 F.

I've tried a different gauge and it still does this.  Also, I replaced the
sender unit and this doesn't help the problem either.

Any ideas?  My guess it must be in the wiring somewhere....???

Thanks,
Matt Milkevitch
'74 MGB-GT
Willow Grove, PA
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/dcouncill at msubillings.edu

From mgbob at juno.com  Fri Jul 29 13:13:50 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 19:13:50 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
Message-ID: <20110729.151350.4696.3@webmail12.vgs.untd.com>

  I punch one hole in the center of the cannister; have not tried the two that
Barney suggested.
 Oil above in the cannister above the tube seems to drain back through the
tube, and the oil remaining in the filter is held there by the red rubber
gasket inside the filter.
  I expect about a tablespoon of oil to spill, an amount easily captured by
one rag.
Bob


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Paul Hunt" <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: "Paul Root" <ptrmgb at gmail.com>
Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:15:47 +0100

Not so sure about that, the inverted filters should have an anti drain-back
valve on the inlet, and the filter head should have an anti drain-back tube
going up the middle of the filter.  If the valve is still functional (as it
should be) the filter will only drain as far as the top of the tube, leaving
most of the oil still in the filter to come out when you unscrew it.
Punching a hole in the bottom of a hanging filter *should* stop oil running
down the outside as you are trying to unscrew it.

PaulH.

From mgbob at juno.com  Fri Jul 29 14:10:22 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 20:10:22 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] wicked mechanic!
Message-ID: <20110729.161022.4696.8@webmail12.vgs.untd.com>

  I would ask him to set the timing back to the original specs with, perhaps,
an additional degree or two of advance. This is done with engine warm and
running at MG's specified RPM.  Unless your fuel in BC is quite different from
ours in New England, the original timing specifications are about right.  John
Twist recommends 32 degrees at 3500 rpm----check his site to be certain.
   Look at the diaphragm in your Zenith-Stromberg,  Moss part #366-040, $3.75.
Just a slight crack in the rubber can cause some strange operation, and these
seem to expire with time.
  At one time, in order to get my '72 through CT emissions, it had to be
leaned so much that it barely ran, ran hot, stumbled and, seemingly strangely,
drank a lot of gas.   The mechanic with the emissions gauges needed to set it
up so that I could (barely) drive to the CT official station, charged once for
a two-part service:  setting it up to pass inspection; resetting it so it
would run properly.
  A couple of years later, the gasoline formula changed and the test was
changed from idle test to 2500 rpm test. I could then tune and take to the
test center, and it would pass easily.
  As others have noted, the cooling system could be loaded with sediment.
Rinsing it out is not difficult, and be sure to hose out the heater core too.
Bob


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Aubrey Schneider" <aschneider at shaw.ca>
To: "mg list" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Mgs] wicked mechanic!
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:54:08 -0700

Hi,

My name is Aubrey & I was involved with the list up to 7 yrs ago. Pse bear
with me.After being idled for 7 yrs, due to my health problems,I wanted to put
it back
on the road.I was an OF then but now I'm a bigger one & don't remember much
how things go
back.
I was recommended to a "so called " excellent fellow who said yes he will get
it through Air Care( our smog inspection ).
Long story short.
He had 2 attempts to get the vehicle running correctly & although it passed
Air Care, it runs ok, with the following problems.
The car overheats.
He said he had to change TDC. Now misses.
Have 94 octane in & it still runs on.
Has ok performance
Chews gas.

I'm sorry to ask you folks but I cannot find this problem in the archives.

Could someone direct me where to look, or if you choose to comment I'd be
most
grateful.

Thank you very much

Aubrey Schneider 75 B

Beautiful British Columbia
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From dave at ranteer.com  Fri Jul 29 17:11:45 2011
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:11:45 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] carpet
Message-ID: <D7024E19FF8443A7B17A5D7891999B46@ranteer.local>

Hi, all.

I have some carpet and padding I inherited with this project.  Although its
probably temporary (however you define that . . .) I was wondering if anyone
has a recommendation on what to cut carpet with?

thanks!

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Fri Jul 29 18:21:59 2011
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 19:21:59 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
In-Reply-To: <F6D93EE973D34060A059588C0D61EF71@paul>
References: <20110727.172715.10266.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>
	<E1E46C28-5EF6-4E8A-9FE5-CF8728E1C052@gmail.com>
	<886183.95888.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4A8EDB17-48D8-4D50-84FD-DFD9160FC9DF@gmail.com>
	<F6D93EE973D34060A059588C0D61EF71@paul>
Message-ID: <947496.77402.qm@smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The center tube is not an anti drain back device, but serves an 
entirely different purpose.  If you remove the center tube you will 
likely never find any differeence in function.  There are nearly 
identical filter mounts with no tube manufactureed and used in 
Australia for many years (decades) without incident.  (and don't 
bother saying it's because the continent in upside down).

If the anti drain back valve fails, it may be possible for oil to 
drain backward past a non-sealing pressure relief valve or through a 
well worn oil pump.  Even then it is very unlikely that the filter 
will ever not be full of oil, because for oil to drain out some air 
must get inside.  Regardless of where that air might come from, the 
only way it can get into the filter is by way of the main oil galley, 
which is the only connection on the output side of the filter 
mount.  This is why you have to punch a hole in the filter to let air 
in if you want the oil to drain out before removing the filter.

The standpipe will not retain oil in a filter that is draining down 
anywhere.  Regardless of which side of the filter may be draining, if 
one side may have low oil level the oil can run freely through the 
filter element to equalize oil lever on both sides.  Any drain down 
would then eventually lead to a completely empty filter.  But even 
then there would have to be some way for air to enter the filter.

The point that no one as touched on yet is, where does the oil drain 
to when you punch an air hole in the filter?  It drains down via the 
main oil galley and drips out through all crankshaft bearings, 
camshaft bearings, timing chain tensioner, and anything else that is 
below the level of the oil filter in the oil flow path.  Such oil 
escape routes must be very small in order to maintain oil pressure 
when running.

As such, the oil drain down is very slow even after you punch a hole 
im the cannister, so give it at least 10 minutes to drain down before 
removing the filter.  That's why I mentinoed to punch the hole first, 
then drain the oil, reinstall the drain plug, and maybe even put 4 
quarts of oil in the sump before removing the filter.

Punching two holes is likely to speed the draining process 
slightly.  If you only punch one hole in the center, then air going 
in will have to bleed radially outward through the top part of the 
filter media as oil is bleeding inward farther down.  With the second 
hole outboard, air gets there easily allowing oil to flow inward 
through the entire surface of the filter media.

If anyone is interested in the real purpose of the stand pipe, see here:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/engine/of100b1.htm

Barney


At 09:15 AM 7/29/2011 +0100, Paul Hunt wrote:
>Not so sure about that, the inverted filters should have an anti 
>drain-back valve on the inlet, and the filter head should have an 
>anti drain-back tube going up the middle of the filter.  If the 
>valve is still functional (as it should be) the filter will only 
>drain as far as the top of the tube, leaving most of the oil still 
>in the filter to come out when you unscrew it. Punching a hole in 
>the bottom of a hanging filter *should* stop oil running down the 
>outside as you are trying to unscrew it.
>....

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jul 29 18:26:40 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 17:26:40 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] carpet
In-Reply-To: <D7024E19FF8443A7B17A5D7891999B46@ranteer.local>
Message-ID: <CA589DD0.3351E%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

If you have a suitable mat to cut against, a sharp utility knife. Or a pair
of heavy shears.


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 7/29/11 4:11 PM, Dave at dave at ranteer.com wrote:

> Hi, all.
> 
> I have some carpet and padding I inherited with this project.  Although its
> probably temporary (however you define that . . .) I was wondering if anyone
> has a recommendation on what to cut carpet with?
> 
> thanks!

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Fri Jul 29 18:42:43 2011
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 19:42:43 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] carpet
In-Reply-To: <D7024E19FF8443A7B17A5D7891999B46@ranteer.local>
References: <D7024E19FF8443A7B17A5D7891999B46@ranteer.local>
Message-ID: <386314.23984.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Kitchen shears.  Long handles, short blades, lots of bite 
leverage.  I've done at least three sets of carpet trimming ALL of 
the edges with this tool.
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=Kitchen%20Shears

Or do lik the pros and by electric carpet shears.
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=electric+carpet+shears


At 06:11 PM 7/29/2011 -0500, Dave wrote:
>....
>.... I was wondering if anyone has a recommendation on what to cut 
>carpet with?
>....

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul 30 03:28:36 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:28:36 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Temp Gauge Reading High
References: <1311950154.15457.YahooMailClassic@web39413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E7A954E5C93D451C891280319B8D9711@paul>

If it were a wiring fault i.e. a short the gauge would either be pegged or 
nearly so as soon as you turned on the ignition.  If it starts off from C 
and only gradually rises as the engine warms, and the coolant temperature is 
correct, then there is probably a mis-match between gauge and sender. 
http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/electricstext1.htm#tempgauge has some resistance 
measurements for the pre-77 sender, and there is also some info on gauge and 
sender changes.

As already said it could be the stabiliser but that would affect the fuel 
gauge as well, and the readings would go up and down with system voltage. 
You can check that by removing the green/blue wire from the temperature 
*sender* and measuring the voltage on it.  With the factory stabiliser when 
you first turn on the ignition you should see 12v for a few seconds, then it 
should start pulsing on and off about once per second.  If you have an 
after-market stabiliser this will probably show a constant 10v or so while 
the ignition is on.  If you see a constant 12v for more than a few seconds 
then the stabiliser is either faulty or has been bypassed.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> ...  The temp gauge consistently
> reads high.  At normal running the needle is just below the "hot" region.
> I've looked into this and the car is not overheating.  I've measured the
> temperature of the coolant and it doesn't rise above 180 F.
>
> I've tried a different gauge and it still does this.  Also, I replaced the
> sender unit and this doesn't help the problem either.

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul 30 03:32:59 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:32:59 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] alternative to the inverted oil filter mount?
References: <20110727.172715.10266.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>
	<E1E46C28-5EF6-4E8A-9FE5-CF8728E1C052@gmail.com>
	<886183.95888.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4A8EDB17-48D8-4D50-84FD-DFD9160FC9DF@gmail.com>
	<F6D93EE973D34060A059588C0D61EF71@paul>
	<947496.77402.qm@smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C6BF0038C82B48B08752F6CC2235AAA8@paul>

Quite.  But with a 2" pipe up the middle of the filter, which is where the 
oil drains to the bearings from, it will only drain the oil that is above 
the top of the pipe.

----- Original Message ----- 
> The point that no one as touched on yet is, where does the oil drain to 
> when you punch an air hole in the filter?  It drains down via the main oil 
> galley and drips out through all crankshaft bearings, camshaft bearings, 
> timing chain tensioner, and anything else that is below the level of the 
> oil filter in the oil flow path. 

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul 30 03:30:20 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:30:20 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] carpet
References: <D7024E19FF8443A7B17A5D7891999B46@ranteer.local>
Message-ID: <0334C34277D74CB2A1A9DD409EC9701D@paul>

Anything that results in a clean edge!  And that will depend on the carpet.

----- Original Message ----- 
> ... I was wondering if anyone
> has a recommendation on what to cut carpet with?

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Sat Jul 30 03:47:24 2011
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:47:24 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Temp Gauge Reading High
References: <1311950154.15457.YahooMailClassic@web39413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA1610D7C4@BILEXMB01.msubillings.edu>
Message-ID: <86D8BE82F8A944CD97520D5E431D61E6@uw471de61b465c>

The voltage stabilizer also would affect other gauges.
So check, if these are working as expected.
If other gauges are not working properly, the stabilizer maybe faulty.
Before replacing this instrument, it is important to check, is the 
stabilizer is making a good ground contact with its housing.
After so many years there may well be some dirt and corrosion between the 
firewall and the stabilizer, which obstructs the effective working of the 
stabilizer. The ground contact of the stabilizer is essential for the entire 
electrical cicuit.

If the temp gauge is the only which shows unexpected readings, the gauge or 
sender maybe faulty.
The sender is the easiest part to fix, though can be hard to remove from the 
engine block.
I had to really stand with my full weight on the wrench, before the sender 
came lose.
You also may try to find tables, which show electical values measured at the 
sender against certain temperatures.
Measure this at the sender and see what the readings are.

It also might be, that the gauge should be readjusted. This only should be 
done, if you never have had good gauge readings. Readjustment is possible 
with two screws accessable via the rear of the gauge.
Two cork caps are normally filling the access hole for this adjustment.

Cheers,

Hans

2 weeks after a weeks vacation in England with the 71 BGT.
Was a great event - met Paul Hunt at the Heritage Museum @ Gaydon.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Councill, David" <dcouncill at msubillings.edu>
To: "'Matthew Milkevitch'" <mmilkevitch at yahoo.com>; <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Temp Gauge Reading High


> There is also the voltage stabilizer - if not properly grounded or not 
> working
> right, it will cause the temp gauge to run high. However, the fuel gauge 
> would
> also be similarly affected if this is the case.
>
> David Councill
> 64 B
> 67 BGT
> 72 B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On 
> Behalf
> Of Matthew Milkevitch
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 8:36 AM
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Mgs] Temp Gauge Reading High
>
> Hello Listers;
>
> A recent post discussed the issue of overheating, and this "jogged" my 
> memory
> about a particular issue my '74 MGB-GT is having.  The temp gauge
> consistently
> reads high.  At normal running the needle is just below the "hot" region.
> I've looked into this and the car is not overheating.  I've measured the
> temperature of the coolant and it doesn't rise above 180 F.
>
> I've tried a different gauge and it still does this.  Also, I replaced the
> sender unit and this doesn't help the problem either.
>
> Any ideas?  My guess it must be in the wiring somewhere....???
>
> Thanks,
> Matt Milkevitch
> '74 MGB-GT
> Willow Grove, PA

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 30 05:49:27 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:49:27 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] carpet
In-Reply-To: <D7024E19FF8443A7B17A5D7891999B46@ranteer.local>
References: <D7024E19FF8443A7B17A5D7891999B46@ranteer.local>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W30A083CF0C1B85516AE4BBB7360@phx.gbl>

I use medical scissors.  They'll cut through anything, even metal.

http://www.amazon.com/Prestige-Medical-Utility-Scissor-Black/dp/B002WJHE9W/re
f=sr_1_14?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1312026463&sr=1-14

-Mike Eldred
Wilmington, VT


> From: dave at ranteer.com
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:11:45 -0500
> Subject: [Mgs] carpet
>
> Hi, all.
>
> I have some carpet and padding I inherited with this project. Although its
> probably temporary (however you define that . . .) I was wondering if
anyone
> has a recommendation on what to cut carpet with?
>
> thanks!
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From rsexson at excite.com  Sat Jul 30 19:03:16 2011
From: rsexson at excite.com (BOb Sexson)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 21:03:16 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] computers
Message-ID: <20110730210316.22112@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>

Are there any computers made in the USA now? I am replacing my computer, and
prefers to purchase one made in this country.

From don at napanet.net  Sat Jul 30 19:41:21 2011
From: don at napanet.net (Don)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 18:41:21 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] computers
In-Reply-To: <20110730210316.22112@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
References: <20110730210316.22112@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
Message-ID: <20110731014126.C22A3AE94B@mail.dsl.napanet.net>

Nothing complex other than missiles and RPGs are made in the 
US.  That is why our economy has failed.  What was cool about MGs 
back in the day was that they were a "foreign" car.  Things made in 
other countries were a novelty.  Now things made in the USA are a novelty.




At 06:03 PM 7/30/2011, BOb Sexson wrote:
>Are there any computers made in the USA now? I am replacing my computer, and
>prefers to purchase one made in this country.

From dcouncill at msubillings.edu  Sat Jul 30 20:22:34 2011
From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 02:22:34 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] computers
In-Reply-To: <20110730210316.22112@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
References: <20110730210316.22112@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
Message-ID: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA1610E2A5@BILEXMB01.msubillings.edu>

Depends on the meaning of "made in."

Dell comes to mind and there are others. But they are assembly plants with the
bulk of the components coming from Asia and then assembled in US based plants.
There are likely local computer shops where you live that do the same thing,
building custom computers from similar foreign built parts. The last computer
I bought was in 1993, and since then, I have always built my own. But local
computer shops do the same - this gives you a longer lasting computer because
you can upgrade individual parts as needed to keep the computer current with
technology changes.

David Councill
64 B
67 BGT
72 B

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of BOb Sexson
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:03 PM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] computers

Are there any computers made in the USA now? I am replacing my computer, and
prefers to purchase one made in this country.

From d_dibiase at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 30 20:42:47 2011
From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 19:42:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] computers
In-Reply-To: <20110730210316.22112@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
References: <20110730210316.22112@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
Message-ID: <1312080167.26412.YahooMailNeo@web39404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Google gave me this -

http://www.computersmadeinusa.com/

No idea if this is
true or not, and I am in the computer industry but haven't heard of
Systemax....

 
Dan D
Central NJ USA
'76 MGB Tourer
'65 MGB Tourer (Project)
NAMGBR #5-2328 
http://dans65b.blogspot.com/
http://dans76b.blogspot.com/
http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/
http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/
twitter:
dandibiase



________________________________
From: BOb Sexson
<rsexson at excite.com>
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:03
PM
Subject: [Mgs] computers

Are there any computers made in the USA now? I am
replacing my computer, and
prefers to purchase one made in this country.
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate:
http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive:
http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com

From sgorr2 at comcast.net  Sat Jul 30 22:21:28 2011
From: sgorr2 at comcast.net (Steven Gorr)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:21:28 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] computers
In-Reply-To: <1312080167.26412.YahooMailNeo@web39404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20110730210316.22112@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
	<1312080167.26412.YahooMailNeo@web39404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C5702C88AC4DF8ADAE95FD2AA8F5D0@sgorrAcer7>

Systemax has been around for years at TigerDirect.com and the plus is that 
their support is in the USA.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Dan DiBiase
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:42 PM
To: BOb Sexson ; mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] computers

Google gave me this -

http://www.computersmadeinusa.com/

No idea if this is
true or not, and I am in the computer industry but haven't heard of
Systemax....


Dan D
Central NJ USA
'76 MGB Tourer
'65 MGB Tourer (Project)
NAMGBR #5-2328
http://dans65b.blogspot.com/
http://dans76b.blogspot.com/
http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/
http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/
twitter:
dandibiase



________________________________
From: BOb Sexson
<rsexson at excite.com>
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:03
PM
Subject: [Mgs] computers

Are there any computers made in the USA now? I am
replacing my computer, and
prefers to purchase one made in this country.
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate:
http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive:
http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/sgorr2 at comcast.net 

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Jul 31 03:47:54 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:47:54 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] computers
References: <20110730210316.22112@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
Message-ID: <48DB47FEEA564FB3B7B7441B50CF040A@paul>

Unlikely.  Even if you find one *assembled* in the country it is unlikely 
that the components will have been manufactured there also.

If you are restricting yourself to stuff totally produced in the USA you are 
likely to find yourself hungry, naked, and be living in an empty property.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Are there any computers made in the USA now? I am replacing my computer, 
> and
> prefers to purchase one made in this country.

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 31 08:41:05 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 07:41:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] computers
In-Reply-To: <20110731014126.C22A3AE94B@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
Message-ID: <1312123265.2914.YahooMailClassic@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 7/30/11, Don <don at napanet.net> wrote:

> Nothing complex other
than missiles
> and RPGs are made in the US.  That is why our economy
> has
failed.

There's plenty of stuff made in the US, just not the
cheap junk that
most "consumers" insist on buying.
Everyone loves to diss WallMart, but people
keep buying
their cheap cr*p nonetheless.  As long as people
believe that a
$12 toaster that lasts a year is a better
deal than a $50 toaster that lasts a
lifetime, there
will be a market for shoddily constructed consumer junk.
And
the story of the US car industry in the 1960s, 70s
and 80s shows that it
doesn't need to be imported junk,
either.

Shop for quality.  It doesn't
matter where the item is
made; if you buy quality, you'll be rewarding those
who
deserve it.  And maybe that will inspire other quality
manufacturers to
spring up locally.

From barrie at look.ca  Sun Jul 31 09:59:40 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:59:40 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Steering wheel
Message-ID: <E1QnZNS-0007tt-7T@gamma.look.ca>

Anybody interested in a steering wheel?   It is the 1977 onwards one 
Moss part no. 263-7301 which is NA now

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From aschneider at shaw.ca  Sun Jul 31 11:48:01 2011
From: aschneider at shaw.ca (Aubrey Schneider)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:48:01 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] thanks.  wicked mechanic
Message-ID: <0E6316F9796445D6BC6F8BBAD8190BDB@owneraur2ue3rs>

Hi listers

Thank you all for your valuable input.

I am attempting to rectify the problems I encountered & I actually remembered
quite a bit.
Will keep the list up to date.

Also when I spoke of overheating, I meant it. Anti freeze dripping from
somewhere, steam from 'somewhere', so I guess  it is as you said, start from
the very beginning.

Thank you all again.

Aubrey 75 B

From rareisse at cox.net  Sun Jul 31 14:01:00 2011
From: rareisse at cox.net (rareisse at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 16:01:00 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] su carb overhaul source
In-Reply-To: <927C15D95DD6445FB28CC7842824B324@PetePC>
Message-ID: <20110731160100.0S6CV.588489.imail@eastrmwml36>

SOme on in our car club recommended:

British Classic Motors
SU Carburetor Rebuilding
109 Mersey Road
Greensboro, NC 27406
336-674-1024
barry at britishclassicmotors.com

No experience personally, but the recommender thought they were reasonable priced and relative fast with service.


---- Peter Ryner <pryner at verizon.net> wrote: 
> I need to rebuild a pair of HS-4 carbs.  They need a full overhaul including
> throttle shaft bushing replacements.  After finding the best parts cost on the
> web I came up with $170 for parts for both carbs.  I checked with the CAR
> component of the RF and they will do the throttle shafts for $135/pr.  That
> brings the total to $305.  I found SUCarbs.com on the web and they will do the
> whole job for $325 including all needed parts and shipping.  They also polish
> the dashpots, use stainless screws and will include cleaning the heat shield
> and manifold at no extra cost.
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with this company?  Sounds great but I'd like
> some feedback first.
> TIA
> Pete
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rareisse at cox.net

From barrie at look.ca  Sun Jul 31 08:04:47 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:04:47 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] computers - off topic
In-Reply-To: <20110731014126.C22A3AE94B@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
References: <20110730210316.22112@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
	<20110731014126.C22A3AE94B@mail.dsl.napanet.net>
Message-ID: <E1Qnchk-0006NQ-T1@beta.look.ca>

At least you do not suffer from Canadian inferiority 
complex.  Canadians will not buy electronics/software that is 
made/written in Canada.  It has to come from the good old USA or 
Japan (for Japan now read China).  In my experience Canadian tech 
companies opened minuscule offices in California so they could 
correspond with Canadian prospects and look as if they were in 
California.  I was VP Marketing with one company and we were going to 
ship bits to California,assemble them there ( took 15 minutes), and 
thus label them "Made in USA".  Just look what happened to WordPerfect.


At 09:41 PM 7/30/2011, Don wrote:
>Nothing complex other than missiles and RPGs are made in the 
>US.  That is why our economy has failed.  What was cool about MGs 
>back in the day was that they were a "foreign" car.  Things made in 
>other countries were a novelty.  Now things made in the USA are a novelty.
>
>
>
>
>At 06:03 PM 7/30/2011, BOb Sexson wrote:
>>Are there any computers made in the USA now? I am replacing my computer, and
>>prefers to purchase one made in this country.
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
(705) 721-9060 

From mgmagnette at aol.com  Sun Jul 31 15:03:34 2011
From: mgmagnette at aol.com (mgmagnette)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 17:03:34 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Octagonal Hotel/Garage 1850's - 1950's
Message-ID: <e64c9413.f055.4754.8f1b.8a2731e0ef3a@aol.com>

Thought this was amusing.

The Octagon Hotel, Circa 1850, where Teddy Roosevelt had his NY state Governor's campaign office at one time:

http://www.chsorgan.org/octagonalhotel.jpg

And here it is in the 1950's, as an auto repair shop... for MGs!

http://www.chsorgan.org/octagonalmgshop.jpg

Apparently now it's a complete wreck but the town of Oyster River NY wants to restore it.  

From mgmagnette at aol.com  Sun Jul 31 17:26:20 2011
From: mgmagnette at aol.com (mgmagnette)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 19:26:20 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Octagonal Hotel/Garage 1850's - 1950's
In-Reply-To: <9E0023FA-195E-454A-883A-24C4290FB769@ghs.com.au>
References: <e64c9413.f055.4754.8f1b.8a2731e0ef3a@aol.com>,
	<9E0023FA-195E-454A-883A-24C4290FB769@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <ea9b493a.ab24.4a19.87d1.cfbac8b61319@aol.com>

Or, possibly, those are time traveling MGBs :)


In a message dated 07/31/11 18:33:19 Eastern Daylight Time, arundell at ghs.com.au writes:
Great Picture, but suggest the second one is c1960's - 1970's.  MGB is   
foreground and showroom is Mk1 or 2.... 


> 
> And here it is in the 1950's, as an auto repair shop... for MGs! 

From dwoerpel at wi.net  Sun Jul 31 17:25:15 2011
From: dwoerpel at wi.net (dwoerpel at wi.net)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 18:25:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Octagonal Hotel/Garage 1850's - 1950's
In-Reply-To: <e64c9413.f055.4754.8f1b.8a2731e0ef3a@aol.com>
References: <e64c9413.f055.4754.8f1b.8a2731e0ef3a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <62783.108.101.143.88.1312154715.squirrel@wm.wi.net>

Dang.  Now why didn't I think of that.  I just built a new garage and that
would have very neat to do.  Nice archival pictures; love 'em.
Dave W.



> Thought this was amusing.
>
> The Octagon Hotel, Circa 1850, where Teddy Roosevelt had his NY state
> Governor's campaign office at one time:
>
> http://www.chsorgan.org/octagonalhotel.jpg
>
> And here it is in the 1950's, as an auto repair shop... for MGs!
>
> http://www.chsorgan.org/octagonalmgshop.jpg
>
> Apparently now it's a complete wreck but the town of Oyster River NY wants
> to restore it.
> _______________________________________________

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 18:56:56 2011
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 17:56:56 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] OD trans
Message-ID: <CACOF-Tp3FWbULEEMB47we=tDnLhOP2zSyoEAZigOdnktf6fUEg@mail.gmail.com>

A buddy of mine is looking for a -67 overdrive transmission for his B.
Anybody know of one for sale?
Rick

From ladaniels at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jul 31 19:04:35 2011
From: ladaniels at sbcglobal.net (Larry Daniels)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:04:35 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Octagonal Hotel/Garage 1850's - 1950's
In-Reply-To: <ea9b493a.ab24.4a19.87d1.cfbac8b61319@aol.com>
References: <e64c9413.f055.4754.8f1b.8a2731e0ef3a@aol.com>,
	<9E0023FA-195E-454A-883A-24C4290FB769@ghs.com.au>
	<ea9b493a.ab24.4a19.87d1.cfbac8b61319@aol.com>
Message-ID: <17DA4DF47306432AA63B95F5DF9B29AB@HomePC>

The first pic wasn't 1850, either.  There is an electric street light in the 
pic which didn't happen in the U.S. until at least 30 years later.

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, there is what looks possibly like a Model A 
behind the flagpole on the left side.  That was much later.


-----Original Message----- 
From: mgmagnette
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 6:26 PM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Octagonal Hotel/Garage 1850's - 1950's

Or, possibly, those are time traveling MGBs :)


In a message dated 07/31/11 18:33:19 Eastern Daylight Time, 
arundell at ghs.com.au writes:
Great Picture, but suggest the second one is c1960's - 1970's.  MGB is
foreground and showroom is Mk1 or 2....


>
> And here it is in the 1950's, as an auto repair shop... for MGs!
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
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From shop at justbrits.com  Sun Jul 31 18:15:24 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 19:15:24 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] [Fwd: [Fwd: [9issa] Reluctantly Offered]]
Message-ID: <4E35F01C.9080103@justbrits.com>

NOT sure of WHY this bounced as it only went to eight [8] address 
including ONE [1] BCC,  FOUR [4] to AutoX Lists, THREE [3] to
POS yahoo Lists, and ONE [1] justbrits List ??  VERY odd ?!?

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[Fwd: [9issa] Reluctantly Offered]
Date: 	Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:36:35 -0500
From: 	Shop at " Just Brits " <shop at justbrits.com>
To: 	4 - bugeye at yahoo <bugeye at yahoogroups.com>, 4 - Healeys 
<healeys at autox.team.net>, 4 - MG-MGB <MG-MGB at yahoogroups.com>, 4 - MG Ts 
<mg-t at autox.team.net>, 4 - MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>, 4 - 
MidgetSprite - Yahoo <Midgetsprite at yahoogroups.com>, 4 - Poly-Sci List 
<polysci_101 at justbrits.com>


If interested, plz 'talk' to me and I'll put you in touch with Kate.

NFI, YMMV, YADA, YADA, BLAH, AND BLAH !!!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[9issa] Reluctantly Offered
Date: 	Sat, 30 Jul 2011 17:52:46 +0000 (UTC)
From: 	Kate in Elko, NV ! !
To: 	9issa at justbrits.com
CC: 	spridgets at autox.team.net



In addition to a broken neck, I now also have five freshly separated ribs. I don't foresee myself driving Madge at any time in the reasonable future, and she is just too nice to allow to sit and deteriorate. I will not be able to put my Comanche back together without more money than I presently have access to, so Madge Midget is looking for a home where she will be loved and appreciated as much as she has been with me.

She is a 1972 RWA with a fresh 1275 and ribcase. The engine has about 4000 miles and the gearbox about 1000. No oil leaks anywhere. She has never been wrecked, but had a car roll into a front fender. It was replaced with a good one off my parts car, and the difference in paint color is barely noticeable if the light is right.

She has rebuilt and freshly covered Bugeye seats, roll bar, 1962 chrome grille, and the early two piece tail lights. A new black top, still in the package, comes with her, as does a hood cover and slightly munched tonneau cover. Any extra parts I have lurking about will also be included.

Pictures, pre tail light, are available on Just Ed's site. I am not able to take more at the present time. She is a solid, very driveable car that also looks good, despite a few rick chips. 

Make me a decent offer and she's yours to drive home. I would drive this car to the east coast and back without hesitation.

Kate

_______________________________________________
9issa mailing list
9issa at box267.bluehost.com
http://box267.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/9issa_justbrits.com
http://www.justbrits.com

From strovato at optonline.net  Sun Jul 31 19:32:27 2011
From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 21:32:27 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Octagonal Hotel/Garage 1850's - 1950's
In-Reply-To: <e64c9413.f055.4754.8f1b.8a2731e0ef3a@aol.com>
References: <e64c9413.f055.4754.8f1b.8a2731e0ef3a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0LP8005AY721F090@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

The town is Oyster Bay.  It's on Long Island, about an hour away from 
me. Cool pictures. This article says it has already been restored:

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/nassau-s-historic-octagon-hotel-restored-1.3031501

Also says it was once a Ford dealership. I guess they missed the MG period.

-Steve Trovato
strovato at optonline.net