From wsthompson at thicko.com Mon Aug 2 15:15:11 2010 From: wsthompson at thicko.com (Wm. Severin Thompson) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:15:11 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] my MKIII Sprite for sale part 1 Message-ID: <00bc01cb3287$cb517c80$61f47580$@com> Folks, Divorce #2 that took place earlier this year is requiring a hard look at liquidating assets. Sadly, I will be selling my 41,000 mile MKIII Sprite. Original paint (red), original 1098 engine, wire wheels, red upholstery, recent tires. Never rusted, as in zero rust anywhere top to bottom. Never hit. It includes a tonneau cover (with the bar), and if the accepted offer is in the price range I need to get, will include a very restorable, rare, factory hardtop (needs paint). There is no soft top with the car, but all the frames, and frame bag etc. are included. I purchased this car in 2002 or 2003 from fellow Sprite lover and Spridget list member Daniel Thompson (no relation). It had 20,000 miles on it at that time. Daniel lives in Montreal. this is a Canadian spec car, so it has subtle differences from a US spec car. For instance, the turn signals have a slightly different lens in front. I drove to Mosport, near Toronto, and trailered it home. The car was legally imported , and has a clear IL title. The car is located in central WI. As I recall, here's the story on the car. A Canadian Sprite racer purchased this car to use for spares. It was a 20,000 mile original car at the time. He completely disassembled it, bagged and tagged it, and took the body tub and all the parts and put it in his basement. From runner01 at wowway.com Mon Aug 2 18:51:22 2010 From: runner01 at wowway.com (Ray Graham) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 19:51:22 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Ignition Light In-Reply-To: <4C5163C6.1000803@ktc.com> Message-ID: Hey Listers, Thanks for your advice. Autozone checked out the old alternator (in the car)and the machine read "bad"...capacitor? I replaced it with a Duralast rebuild for $65.00 with a $15.00 core refund. The ignition light does not glow any longer and the tach used to kind of bounce a little at idle (not at highway speed)and the bounce is gone. I think I am good to go for a while, Ray Graham -----Original Message----- From: Charley & Peggy Robinson [mailto:ccrobins at ktc.com] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 6:20 AM To: Ray Graham Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Ignition Light Have Autozone check it on the car. If it's not working buy a rebuilt Duralast ( it's what' on my B) from them and have a lifetime guarantee. CR On 7/26/2010 6:45 PM, Ray Graham wrote: > Folks, > Thanks all who responded. I have 12 volts on the brown wires at the > plug to the alternator. The plan would be to pull it and get it > checked at my local AutoZone, I have heard they can do that? There is > a local shop that rebuilds alternators or would I be better off just > buying a new one from Moss, @$125.00 plus shipping? > > Thanks for the help, > Ray Graham From don at napanet.net Tue Aug 3 12:18:11 2010 From: don at napanet.net (don) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 11:18:11 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter Message-ID: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> The PO of my Mk 2 put an adaptor kit so that it now has a spin on oil filter. I want to change oil and filter, and need to purchase a new filter. Any recommendations for brand? And more importantly, does anyone have a part number for a replacement filter? The one on the car is a Carquest 85516, but the parts place I just called doesn't have a cross reference for this one. Thansk! Don Scott Calistoga CA 2 MGs 1 TR Misc. Japanese cars From ddarby at centurytel.net Tue Aug 3 12:43:40 2010 From: ddarby at centurytel.net (David F. Darby) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:43:40 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter In-Reply-To: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> References: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: Hello Don, If you have the Moss adapter (part no. 235-940), you have quite a range of choices. Barney lists 34 different models from 22 manufacturers. My preference is for the WIX #51516. This is a commonly used number for foreign and domestic models. You should be able to get it most anywhere. If you have clearance problems, you can run the shorter 51335. Cheers, David -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter The PO of my Mk 2 put an adaptor kit so that it now has a spin on oil filter. I want to change oil and filter, and need to purchase a new filter. Any recommendations for brand? And more importantly, does anyone have a part number for a replacement filter? The one on the car is a Carquest 85516, but the parts place I just called doesn't have a cross reference for this one. Thansk! Don Scott From richard.ewald at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 12:51:08 2010 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:51:08 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter In-Reply-To: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> References: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: If it is long, it's a V8 Ford filter. Fram PH8, Autolite FL1 etc. (No endorsement, I just remember these numbers) If it is short and stubby, a gas engine Volvo filter (1962-1998) fits, Sorry don't have that number memorized. Rick On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:18 AM, don wrote: > The PO of my Mk 2 put an adaptor kit so that it now has a spin on oil > filter. I want to change oil and filter, and need to purchase a new filter. > Any recommendations for brand? And more importantly, does anyone have a > part number for a replacement filter? The one on the car is a Carquest > 85516, but the parts place I just called doesn't have a cross reference for > this one. > Thansk! > Don Scott > Calistoga CA > 2 MGs > 1 TR > Misc. Japanese cars _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com From riverside at southslope.net Tue Aug 3 12:58:17 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:58:17 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter References: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: <002301cb333d$d69287e0$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> NAPA gold number is 1516 riverside sports cars ----- Original Message ----- From: "David F. Darby" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter > Hello Don, > > If you have the Moss adapter (part no. 235-940), you have quite a range of > choices. Barney lists 34 different models from 22 manufacturers. > > My preference is for the WIX #51516. This is a commonly used number for > foreign and domestic models. You should be able to get it most anywhere. > If > you have clearance problems, you can run the shorter 51335. > > Cheers, > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter > > The PO of my Mk 2 put an adaptor kit so that it now has a spin on oil > filter. I want to change oil and filter, and need to purchase a new > filter. Any recommendations for brand? And more importantly, does > anyone have a part number for a replacement filter? The one on the > car is a Carquest 85516, but the parts place I just called doesn't > have a cross reference for this one. > Thansk! > Don Scott > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net From mg_garage at comcast.net Tue Aug 3 13:57:00 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 15:57:00 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter In-Reply-To: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> References: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: <4C58748C.70601@comcast.net> Ever since reading the "oil filter study" of many years ago I have been using the Mobil 1 M1-209, or if you prefer the shorter version, M1-206. Of course, I'm assuming you have the same adapter as I do that puts the filter below the housing rather than above. Gordie '62 MGA '67 BGT don wrote: > The PO of my Mk 2 put an adaptor kit so that it now has a spin on oil > filter. I want to change oil and filter, and need to purchase a new > filter. Any recommendations for brand? And more importantly, does > anyone have a part number for a replacement filter? The one on the > car is a Carquest 85516, but the parts place I just called doesn't > have a cross reference for this one. > Thansk! > Don Scott > Calistoga CA > 2 MGs > 1 TR > Misc. Japanese cars _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg_garage at comcast.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5338 (20100803) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 3 13:57:33 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 12:57:33 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter In-Reply-To: <002301cb333d$d69287e0$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: NAPA, CarQuest and Wix are all the same part (note the similarity in numbering). Fram cross-reference numbers are PH8A for the long, and PH43 short. NB: Fram makes 3 quality grades of filter. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/3/10 11:58 AM, riverside at riverside at southslope.net wrote: > NAPA gold number is 1516 > > > riverside sports cars > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David F. Darby" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:43 PM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter > > >> Hello Don, >> >> If you have the Moss adapter (part no. 235-940), you have quite a range of >> choices. Barney lists 34 different models from 22 manufacturers. >> >> My preference is for the WIX #51516. This is a commonly used number for >> foreign and domestic models. You should be able to get it most anywhere. >> If >> you have clearance problems, you can run the shorter 51335. >> >> Cheers, >> >> David >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter >> >> The PO of my Mk 2 put an adaptor kit so that it now has a spin on oil >> filter. I want to change oil and filter, and need to purchase a new >> filter. Any recommendations for brand? And more importantly, does >> anyone have a part number for a replacement filter? The one on the >> car is a Carquest 85516, but the parts place I just called doesn't >> have a cross reference for this one. >> Thansk! >> Don Scott From jello at cableone.net Tue Aug 3 14:00:49 2010 From: jello at cableone.net (Phil Bates) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:00:49 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter Message-ID: <49976.1280865649@cableone.net> /H2SWtj: Permission denied From hardt at sonic.net Tue Aug 3 15:40:45 2010 From: hardt at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 14:40:45 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter In-Reply-To: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> References: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: <4C588CDD.1030102@sonic.net> I've had my car for decades so it may not have the same adapter but I've always used NAPA 1374 filters as that's what the car had when I got it. It's the same filter used by the early 70's BMW 2002. Ron 58 MGA don wrote: > The PO of my Mk 2 put an adaptor kit so that it now has a spin on oil > filter. I want to change oil and filter, and need to purchase a new > filter. Any recommendations for brand? And more importantly, does > anyone have a part number for a replacement filter? The one on the car > is a Carquest 85516, but the parts place I just called doesn't have a > cross reference for this one. > Thansk! > Don Scott > Calistoga CA > 2 MGs > 1 TR > Misc. Japanese cars _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/hardt at sonic.net From shop at justbrits.com Tue Aug 3 16:03:20 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:03:20 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C589228.6060808@justbrits.com> << NB: Fram makes 3 quality grades of filter. >> And NONE of them are anything I would put on any of my cars [LBC or Chevy] or my Customers' cars, Max. Don, I would strongly suggest the WIX brand 1st followed by the NAPA brand. Regards....... Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com [with LOTS of 1st time offers for Listers in the For Sale areas which ARE soon to go to fleabay -:(.] [with MGA & MGB stuff listed ! ] From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 3 16:32:44 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 15:32:44 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter In-Reply-To: <4C589228.6060808@justbrits.com> Message-ID: The reason I pointed this out is that the famous ongoing oil filter study webpage rated the Fram Tough Guard version as OK, even as it disparaged the other two grades. The whole issue is a little dicey since the manufacturers continually change the designs (seldom for the better), or buy each other out and so substitute different product under the old brand names. Caveat emptor. I still find it funny that every Ferrari I have ever seen with the hood open has sported a pair of the bright orange basic Fram filters (inverted, no less). Do you think they never actually start their engines? -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/3/10 3:03 PM, shop at justbrits.com at shop at justbrits.com wrote: > << NB: Fram makes 3 quality grades of filter. >> > > And NONE of them are anything I would put on any of my cars > [LBC or Chevy] or my Customers' cars, Max. > > Don, I would strongly suggest the WIX brand 1st followed by > the NAPA brand. > > Regards....... > > Ed > Please visit MY site at: > www.justbrits.com > [with LOTS of 1st time offers for Listers in the > For Sale areas which ARE soon to go to fleabay -:(.] > [with MGA & MGB stuff listed ! ] From bdavispics at yahoo.com Tue Aug 3 19:31:32 2010 From: bdavispics at yahoo.com (BDavis) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <139485.88035.qm@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here's an interesting site I've sometimes referred to when questioning the composition and manufacture of oil filters. http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/reference.html#w51515 Take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt! Forums and this post included. bdavis - MGB / MGTA From don at napanet.net Tue Aug 3 22:04:22 2010 From: don at napanet.net (don) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 21:04:22 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter In-Reply-To: References: <4C589228.6060808@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <20100804040446.56F56AE65F@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Thanks to all of you guys for the info on the oil filters! My oil pressure is less than 50 lb when the engine is at operating temp at higher RPMs. Perhaps fresh 20-50 oil will help. It still has the oil in from the PO, and it may be 30 wt. At least I have a spare 1622 engine in my garage if something horrible happens. In my early MG years, I used various oils and filters on my 1960 MGA fitted with a 3-main B engine. The combo that gave the best oil pressure at all times was Castrol 20-50 and a cotton-felt filter. The cardboard filters cut oil pressure down a lot. And back then, Castrol was not readily available; I had to buy it when I was lucky enough to find it. Don Scott Calistoga CA USA 1962 MGA Mk 2 1973 MGB GT (selling) 1965 MGB (seeking) 1966 TR4A Misc. Japanese cars At 03:32 PM 08/03/2010, Max Heim wrote: >The reason I pointed this out is that the famous ongoing oil filter study >webpage rated the Fram Tough Guard version as OK, even as it disparaged the >other two grades. > >The whole issue is a little dicey since the manufacturers continually change >the designs (seldom for the better), or buy each other out and so substitute >different product under the old brand names. Caveat emptor. > >I still find it funny that every Ferrari I have ever seen with the hood open >has sported a pair of the bright orange basic Fram filters (inverted, no >less). Do you think they never actually start their engines? > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > >on 8/3/10 3:03 PM, shop at justbrits.com at shop at justbrits.com wrote: > > > << NB: Fram makes 3 quality grades of filter. >> > > > > And NONE of them are anything I would put on any of my cars > > [LBC or Chevy] or my Customers' cars, Max. > > > > Don, I would strongly suggest the WIX brand 1st followed by > > the NAPA brand. > > > > Regards....... > > > > Ed From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Aug 4 02:23:09 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 09:23:09 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MGA spin-on oil filter References: <20100803181842.1F1D8AE664@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: <285A40ACFA8E4B21B540DA369A57E4FC@paul> As far as recommendations go I gave up on Fram PH2857A for my MGB as I found they drained back and gave a long pressure rise time, worse than any other filter I tried. The Volvo 3517857-3 is the best out of several I have tried for that, but 2 out of 3 have had the rubber seal twist up on fitting and shot a jet of oil out on first start up before sealing themselves, this is with less than half a turn of tightening after the seal makes contact, when other filters recommend 3/4. Comparing the diameter of the seal ring it *is* slightly smaller than book recommended filters, whether this is something to do with it I don't know. Te canister is also shorter, so on the face of it less filtration material, but when peering inside clean filters that seems to be more to do with the design of the internal bypass valve, the length of the filtration cartridge seems to be very similar at 2.57" compared to 2.785" for a Champion, whereas the external heights are 3.25" and 4" respectively. I haven't sectioned any though. If you have the anti-drainback tube fitted to the filter head the internal depth of the filter *must* exceed this by at least half an inch, some filters are too short and screw down onto the end of the tube which results in zero oil pressure on startup. But if it's a hanging spin-on, then probably little of the above applies. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- >> Any recommendations for brand? From mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com Thu Aug 5 10:12:41 2010 From: mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com (W. David Houser) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:12:41 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Needed: Dates for April 2011 Car shows Message-ID: Listers, Can anyone provide as complete list as possible for all events in the Southeast(Georgia, SC, FL) for April 2011 or point me to a site that has them? My club needs to avoid a booking conflict. TIA, Dave Houser From maine2me at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 12:52:04 2010 From: maine2me at yahoo.com (Dan Dwelley) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? Message-ID: <204036.25101.qm@web114105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Does anyone have any pics of a correct 69 BGT engine compartment they can send me or point me to? I'm trying to sort out the right and wrong in my newest project. Thanks in advance!! Dan From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 5 13:36:24 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:36:24 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? In-Reply-To: <204036.25101.qm@web114105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You might want to consult the book "Original MGB" by Clausager. Available through Moss and presumably elsewhere. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/5/10 11:52 AM, Dan Dwelley at maine2me at yahoo.com wrote: > Does anyone have any pics of a correct 69 BGT engine compartment they can send > me or point me to? I'm trying to sort out the right and wrong in my newest > project. > > Thanks in advance!! > Dan From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Thu Aug 5 15:01:31 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:01:31 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? In-Reply-To: References: <204036.25101.qm@web114105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D89F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> As Max said, the best (accurate) option is "Original MGB" by Clausager. I have a copy but when I needed it a few weeks ago I couldn't find it. So I used google and the Internet instead for a reference. Mine was a minor matter. There are likely many MG engine compartment pictures to be found on the Internet, particularly on cars for sale, and you would be looking at maybe years 69-71 for US spec. However, those may not be totally accurate but I'm sure if you found some pics and posted the links, some of us could verify that the layout is period correct or not. But since I brought it up, I was looking at MGB engine compartment pics because I just sandblasted and painted my air filter containers and was wondering about the layout of the Cooper stickers and whether one or both had the stickers originally. A minor point to be sure but I'm thinking when originally shipped only one had the sticker, not both. By the time I find my copy of "Original MGB" I will have forgotten this small matter though. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- on 8/5/10 11:52 AM, Dan Dwelley at maine2me at yahoo.com wrote: > Does anyone have any pics of a correct 69 BGT engine compartment they can send > me or point me to? I'm trying to sort out the right and wrong in my newest > project. > > Thanks in advance!! > Dan From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 15:48:04 2010 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D89F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <204036.25101.qm@web114105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D89F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <723085.50174.qm@web50908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> David, mine was within reach. Page 63 shows a '69 engine compartment, and only the rear canister has the sticker. However, all of the other pictures of various years show stickers on both cans... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: "Councill, David" To: MG List Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 5:01:31 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? As Max said, the best (accurate) option is "Original MGB" by Clausager. I have a copy but when I needed it a few weeks ago I couldn't find it. So I used google and the Internet instead for a reference. Mine was a minor matter. There are likely many MG engine compartment pictures to be found on the Internet, particularly on cars for sale, and you would be looking at maybe years 69-71 for US spec. However, those may not be totally accurate but I'm sure if you found some pics and posted the links, some of us could verify that the layout is period correct or not. But since I brought it up, I was looking at MGB engine compartment pics because I just sandblasted and painted my air filter containers and was wondering about the layout of the Cooper stickers and whether one or both had the stickers originally. A minor point to be sure but I'm thinking when originally shipped only one had the sticker, not both. By the time I find my copy of "Original MGB" I will have forgotten this small matter though. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- on 8/5/10 11:52 AM, Dan Dwelley at maine2me at yahoo.com wrote: > Does anyone have any pics of a correct 69 BGT engine compartment they can send > me or point me to? I'm trying to sort out the right and wrong in my newest > project. > > Thanks in advance!! > Dan _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From maine2me at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 16:10:32 2010 From: maine2me at yahoo.com (Dan Dwelley) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D89F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <204036.25101.qm@web114105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D89F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <155015.59054.qm@web114109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thanks folks. The MGB book by Clausenger is the only Clausinger book I do not have...otherwise I would have gone there first. This is the first B I've ever owned. I have or have had Sprites, Midgets, and MGAs. I know the basic layout but I want to ensure things aren't missing or additional items are removed. (The engine is not the original 18G...it's an 18V.) Thanks! Dan ----- Original Message ---- From: "Councill, David" To: MG List Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 5:01:31 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? As Max said, the best (accurate) option is "Original MGB" by Clausager. I have a copy but when I needed it a few weeks ago I couldn't find it. So I used google and the Internet instead for a reference. Mine was a minor matter. There are likely many MG engine compartment pictures to be found on the Internet, particularly on cars for sale, and you would be looking at maybe years 69-71 for US spec. However, those may not be totally accurate but I'm sure if you found some pics and posted the links, some of us could verify that the layout is period correct or not. But since I brought it up, I was looking at MGB engine compartment pics because I just sandblasted and painted my air filter containers and was wondering about the layout of the Cooper stickers and whether one or both had the stickers originally. A minor point to be sure but I'm thinking when originally shipped only one had the sticker, not both. By the time I find my copy of "Original MGB" I will have forgotten this small matter though. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Thu Aug 5 16:51:35 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 16:51:35 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? In-Reply-To: <155015.59054.qm@web114109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <204036.25101.qm@web114105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D89F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> <155015.59054.qm@web114109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C016@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Another option is that you can take some detailed pictures of the engine compartment and post them on the Internet for those of us on the list to see. If you don't have a site, you can email them to me and I can put them on a server (my email limit is 25 mb per message so keep them small). I'm sure a number of us can give you a complete analysis of what we see. With the 18V, there may be some changes, some visible some not. A 71BGT I bought had a replacement 18V engine in it that turned out to be an Austin Marina motor. One visible difference was a blocked coolant pipe on the head and not visible - the single row timing chain and gears and a modified pilot shaft from the transmission to where it inserted in the crankshaft. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: Dan Dwelley [mailto:maine2me at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 4:11 PM To: Councill, David; MG List Subject: Re: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? Thanks folks. The MGB book by Clausenger is the only Clausinger book I do not have...otherwise I would have gone there first. This is the first B I've ever owned. I have or have had Sprites, Midgets, and MGAs. I know the basic layout but I want to ensure things aren't missing or additional items are removed. (The engine is not the original 18G...it's an 18V.) Thanks! Dan From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Aug 6 02:25:58 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:25:58 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? References: <204036.25101.qm@web114105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D89F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: Clausager's cars are restored, but stickers are sold in pairs. You need original sale brochures if you want to get really anal about it, and they do show stickers on both. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > But since I brought it up, I was looking at MGB engine compartment pics > because I just sandblasted and painted my air filter containers and was > wondering about the layout of the Cooper stickers and whether one or > both had the stickers originally. From mrkshrmn at hotmail.com Fri Aug 6 06:15:41 2010 From: mrkshrmn at hotmail.com (MARK SHERMAN) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:15:41 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 39, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Dave: Have you tried hemmings.com? They have a page on events that has a search capability. Mark Sherman > Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:12:41 -0400 > From: "W. David Houser" > Subject: [Mgs] Needed: Dates for April 2011 Car shows > To: MGList List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Listers, > Can anyone provide as complete list as possible for all events in the > Southeast(Georgia, SC, FL) for April 2011 or point me to a site that > has them? > My club needs to avoid a booking conflict. > TIA, > Dave Houser > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mgs mailing list > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > > End of Mgs Digest, Vol 39, Issue 4 > ********************************** > > -- Mark Sherman Sanolite Corporation From qualitas.jack at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 17:29:21 2010 From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 18:29:21 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? now Amazon.com Message-ID: I usually avoid Moss when buying books or videos so I went to Amazon.com to see what they wanted for it. It seems they have only one seller with a new one and he wanted $281.83 (!!!) for it. There were a number of used ones starting at 74.98, also outrageous. Is this book our of print, or are there some folks who are trying to take advantage of someones lack of knowledge? Jack From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 6 18:05:28 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 17:05:28 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? now Amazon.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The ISBN number will be on the Amazon page. Use it to do a Google search. You can find out if it is still in print. But why not check the price at Moss? Or Motorbooks? -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/6/10 4:29 PM, Jack Feldman at qualitas.jack at gmail.com wrote: > I usually avoid Moss when buying books or videos so I went to Amazon.com to > see what they wanted for it. It seems they have only one seller with a new > one and he wanted $281.83 (!!!) for it. There were a number of used ones > starting at 74.98, also outrageous. > > Is this book our of print, or are there some folks who are trying to take > advantage of someones lack of knowledge? > > Jack From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Fri Aug 6 18:20:09 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 18:20:09 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? now Amazon.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C0C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> I see what you mean. Clausager's Original MGB is out of stock. However, you may have missed the new version which Amazon says will be released Feb 2011 but you can pre-order now for the bargain price of $32.97 (regular price USD49.95). Interesting too how most of the resellers are fairly uniform in the $75-$80 selling range for a used copy of the last release. A rather pricey book but perhaps that reflects on the quality of material within. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Feldman Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:29 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? now Amazon.com I usually avoid Moss when buying books or videos so I went to Amazon.com to see what they wanted for it. It seems they have only one seller with a new one and he wanted $281.83 (!!!) for it. There were a number of used ones starting at 74.98, also outrageous. Is this book our of print, or are there some folks who are trying to take advantage of someones lack of knowledge? Jack From eugeneb at nni.com Fri Aug 6 20:47:20 2010 From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 22:47:20 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] How to refill Gaitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All, I noticed the other day that the gaitor on my steering rack was leaking from the (outer) end. Apparently the clamp has worked loose and let the oil out. Is there a special way to refill the gaitor or do I just squeeze the 90W in there ? How much do I put in ? The gaitor has that funky little clamp on the end. I need to see if that is still serviceable or if I need to replace it. Thanks in advance for the help Gene 80 B --------------------------------------------------------------------- Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Aug 7 02:26:50 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 09:26:50 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] How to refill Gaitor References: Message-ID: Are you sure it was the clamp and not a split gaiter? Far more likely, and it can also leak from the seals for the upper and lower parts of where the pinion is, and the damper cover plate. If the clamp is defective simply replace it with a cable tie. Use a small oil can of the type with a trigger and narrow spout inserted under one end of the gaiter with the clamp loosened. Personally I do it at the top of the large end whilst clamping the lower part of the gaiter onto the rack housing with my other hand as that allows more to go in before it overflows. Put some in, about a third or a half, then clamp all round the gaiter with your hand while you work the rack *slowly* from one lock to the other to distribute it to the other end of the rack. 1/3 Imperial pint, .19 Litre, .39 US pint. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Is there a special way to refill the gaitor or do I just > squeeze the 90W in there ? From qualitas.jack at gmail.com Sat Aug 7 04:50:34 2010 From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 05:50:34 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? now Amazon.com In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C0C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C0C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: David, Clausinger no longer works for the Heritage Trust. I wonder who revised the book, and what new information it could possibly contain. Jack On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Councill, David wrote: > I see what you mean. Clausager's Original MGB is out of stock. However, > you may have missed the new version which Amazon says will be released > Feb 2011 but you can pre-order now for the bargain price of $32.97 > (regular price USD49.95). Interesting too how most of the resellers are > fairly uniform in the $75-$80 selling range for a used copy of the last > release. A rather pricey book but perhaps that reflects on the quality > of material within. > > David Councill > 64 B > 67 BGT > 72 B > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Jack Feldman > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:29 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? now Amazon.com > > I usually avoid Moss when buying books or videos so I went to Amazon.com > to see what they wanted for it. It seems they have only one seller with > a new one and he wanted $281.83 (!!!) for it. There were a number of > used ones starting at 74.98, also outrageous. > > Is this book our of print, or are there some folks who are trying to > take advantage of someones lack of knowledge? > > Jack From james.f.juhas at snet.net Sat Aug 7 09:54:30 2010 From: james.f.juhas at snet.net (J. F. Juhas) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 11:54:30 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Clutch recommendations Message-ID: <4C5D81B6.3070801@snet.net> I have been having considerable difficulty with the clutch(s) in my MGA with a lightly modified 1622 engine. Lots of slipping issues. Without going into the considerable history of what I have done in attempts to remedy it, what are you all using in your MGAs? The choices I know of are 1) stock or heavy duty standard MGA clutch & PP; 2) Twin Cam pressure plate; 3) MGB pressure plate with some choice of MGA disc; 4) uprated MGA pressure plate, as in more clamping force; 5) choices of clutch disk material. I have now tried the stock-type clutch faces, kevlar and ceramic. I have had oiling problems (from the engine rear scroll seal) but my engine shop is convinced that the amount of oil that I have shown him would not be enough to make a conventional clutch slip. So, what combinations have you all found work for you? I recognize that I may have some other issue somewhere but I hope this advice might help me to eliminate the materials as a variable. From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Sat Aug 7 11:33:47 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 11:33:47 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? now Amazon.com In-Reply-To: References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C0C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C0C7@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> It looks like a reprint. The cover shows the same picture and both old and new book have the same number of pages (152). Only difference I could see was the title was slightly different: New - Original MGB: The Restorer's Guide to All Roadster and GT Models 1962-80 (Original Series) by Anders Ditlev Clausager Earlier - Original MGB with MGC and MGB GT V8: The Restorer's Guide to All Roadster and GT Models 1962-80 by Anders Ditlev Clausager David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B From: Jack Feldman [mailto:qualitas.jack at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 4:51 AM To: Councill, David Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? now Amazon.com David, Clausinger no longer works for the Heritage Trust. I wonder who revised the book, and what new information it could possibly contain. Jack On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Councill, David wrote: I see what you mean. Clausager's Original MGB is out of stock. However, you may have missed the new version which Amazon says will be released Feb 2011 but you can pre-order now for the bargain price of $32.97 (regular price USD49.95). Interesting too how most of the resellers are fairly uniform in the $75-$80 selling range for a used copy of the last release. A rather pricey book but perhaps that reflects on the quality of material within. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Feldman Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:29 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Got 69 BGT engine pics? now Amazon.com I usually avoid Moss when buying books or videos so I went to Amazon.com to see what they wanted for it. It seems they have only one seller with a new one and he wanted $281.83 (!!!) for it. There were a number of used ones starting at 74.98, also outrageous. Is this book our of print, or are there some folks who are trying to take advantage of someones lack of knowledge? Jack From wmseverin at centurylink.net Mon Aug 2 15:14:52 2010 From: wmseverin at centurylink.net (Wm. Severin Thompson) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:14:52 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] my MKIII Sprite for sale part 2 Message-ID: <00b701cb3287$c131c7f0$439557d0$@net> Part 2 The gentlemen later retired from racing, took up woodworking, then passed away. Daniel became aware of the cars and parts, and purchased them. He reassembled the car, replacing any necessary parts, such as any old bushings, etc. It has a stainless exhaust on it. It has a new fuel tank. Upholsteryseats and side panels are original, and in great shape. It needs a carpet set. The original paint has patina it shines after a buffing, shows some scratches and minor dents from its time in the basement. The stock 1098 in this car runs smoother than any Sprite Ive owned, and as many of you know, Ive owned a considerable amount. It does not leak any appreciable amount of oil, which is astonishing. The transmission shifts cleaner up and down the pattern better than any gearbox in any Sprite Ive driven. I average about 42mpg in combined city and highway driving. I would not hesitate to climb in this car and drive across the country. Ill be taking serious offers on this car, cash or Paypal. I wont be in the mood for tire kickers or time wasters. Pictures are available Ill also get the car on the lift and get some additional shots to demonstrate how clean it is underneath and engine compartment is. Ill be putting the car up for auction on Ebay in the next few days. Theres a similar car (even lower stated mileage) , coincidentally a Canadian car, in close to similar condition on Ebay right now (however, it is in North Vancouver, BC. Canada mine is in WI) . Id say the paint looks a little nicer on that car, but without looking at it personally, or driving it, I cannot say for sure. That car is at $6100, reserve not met, with 3 = days left on the auction. Email me privately to discuss your interest in my car. WST From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Aug 8 08:08:49 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 15:08:49 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Clutch recommendations References: <4C5D81B6.3070801@snet.net> Message-ID: In my experience an oil leak caused the clutch to grab, not slip. Are you sure the pressure is being fully released? I'm not familiar with the MGA clutch as opposed to the MGB, but on that you should be able to push the slave piston back even further into the cylinder than the clutch does and create free play, if you can't then the clutch isn't fully engaging. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- >I have been having considerable difficulty with the clutch(s) in my MGA >with a lightly modified 1622 engine. Lots of slipping issues. From james.f.juhas at snet.net Sun Aug 8 10:32:25 2010 From: james.f.juhas at snet.net (Jim Juhas) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 12:32:25 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Clutch recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <4C5D81B6.3070801@snet.net> Message-ID: <4C5EDC19.8070703@snet.net> Yes, I did exactly that, and I'm suspicious of everything in the system because the oil does not seem excessive. New master, new slave, new teflon hose; I'm about to change the steel line, but it seems unlikely that's the culprit, but who knows? Paul Hunt wrote: > In my experience an oil leak caused the clutch to grab, not slip. Are > you sure the pressure is being fully released? I'm not familiar with > the MGA clutch as opposed to the MGB, but on that you should be able > to push the slave piston back even further into the cylinder than the > clutch does and create free play, if you can't then the clutch isn't > fully engaging. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> I have been having considerable difficulty with the clutch(s) in my >> MGA with a lightly modified 1622 engine. Lots of slipping issues. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of james_f_juhas.vcf] From rbgosling at googlemail.com Wed Aug 11 03:35:06 2010 From: rbgosling at googlemail.com (Richard Gosling) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:35:06 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Anyone want to adopt Sammy? Message-ID: Never thought it would happen, but I've decided to sell Sammy. I want to have a car I use, not one that languishes in the garage, and since I rarely go anywhere without kids (since I drive them to school on my way to work), and my wife has vetoed the kids riding in the so-called "back seat" with no seat-belts, I never get to drive her. I need a frivilous fun old car with 4 seats! So, Sammy is up for adoption. 1973 chrome bumper, black tulip (rare '73-only shade of dark purple, lovely colour) with ochre interior. She's a good reliable runner, mechanically everything works just a it should, but she won't win any prizes for cosmetic condition. She's a driver, not a show-er. Good stuff: -Just passed MOT last week (at first time of asking!). -New radiator and water pump. -Recent front suspension re-build with new springs, dampers and bushes. -Recent new passenger door (whole shell, not just outer skin). -New drivers side sill a couple of years ago (passenger side totally sound, guess previous owner did it!). -Whole braking system replaced with new/reconditioned components a couple of years ago - Master and slave cylinders, calipers, front pads and discs, rear shoes (drums fine), servo, flex-hoses (steel braided). -Both front wings and passenger door repainted within last couple years. -Stainless steel exhaust. -Overdrive. Less good stuff: -Some surface rust, particularly around rear wing top seams and rear wheel arches. -Small (5p-sized) rust hole in front edge of bonnet. -Dashboard paint somewhat chipped and showing its age. -Rust on bumpers. -Rust on wing mirrors (and they were brand new 5 years ago! cheap poor quality modern chrome plating). -For some reason the front seats are vinyl and the rear is velour. Should all be velour in a BGT, no idea whether it's a previous owner change or the factory had run out of velour front seats the day she was built. -Oil cooler removed - it was leaking, and really not needed in this climate, but could easily be replaced if desired. -Gets through a little oil, but no more than most MGBs (and it all helps to rust-proof the engine bay and underside of the car!). The car is largely original, with original engine. I've fitted alloy wheels that look identical to those fitted to the MGB LE (although these actually came off a Stag), got the original Rostyles but they are badly rusted. 14" leather-rimmed steering wheel fitted. Decent Blaupunkt stereo, 4-speaker which involved fitting speakers in the panels beside the rear seat (done quite neatly, if I may say so!). Otherwise everthing is pretty much as MG built it. Photos can be found at http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/104546114401834027749/MGBGT# Price is #1,900, and the car can be viewed, tested, and collected in Newburgh, just north of Aberdeen. E-mail me, or give me a call on 01224 615172 (work hours) or 07759 331936 (any other time). From jevans at mydb3.com Wed Aug 11 17:39:03 2010 From: jevans at mydb3.com (jevans at mydb3.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:39:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mgs] pre-bent brake lines? Message-ID: <3470.75.56.62.200.1281569943.squirrel@wm.mydb3.com> Anybody know of a source for pre-formed brake lines for RB MGB? Seems that Moss & VB only sell straight lines & bending tools. I am aware of the various DIY solutions to this need but would rather just take something out of a box and fasten it to the car. Jim Evans From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 11 19:11:52 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:11:52 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] pre-bent brake lines? In-Reply-To: <3470.75.56.62.200.1281569943.squirrel@wm.mydb3.com> Message-ID: It strikes me that one of the problems with this approach is shipping... -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/11/10 4:39 PM, jevans at mydb3.com at jevans at mydb3.com wrote: > Anybody know of a source for pre-formed brake lines for RB MGB? Seems > that Moss & VB only sell straight lines & bending tools. I am aware of > the various DIY solutions to this need but would rather just take > something out of a box and fasten it to the car. > Jim Evans From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Wed Aug 11 20:00:25 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:00:25 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] pre-bent brake lines? In-Reply-To: <3470.75.56.62.200.1281569943.squirrel@wm.mydb3.com> References: <3470.75.56.62.200.1281569943.squirrel@wm.mydb3.com> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C3C4@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> It seems like I had this problem on my 72B which involved replacing pretty much most of the brake lines. Ed of Just Brits said to use my thumbs (literally). So I did, slowly, and the lines and I survived unscathed. On my latest project, a 64B, I had to replace one of the rear lines. This time I used a cheap Harbor Freight tube bender (less than USD10) which was slightly easier/safer making a 90 degree bend. But either way, it is not tough but does take a bit of time. The lines are fairly flexible and are inexpensive (as I recall). David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jevans at mydb3.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:39 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] pre-bent brake lines? Anybody know of a source for pre-formed brake lines for RB MGB? Seems that Moss & VB only sell straight lines & bending tools. I am aware of the various DIY solutions to this need but would rather just take something out of a box and fasten it to the car. Jim Evans From v.navarrette at comcast.net Wed Aug 11 20:04:48 2010 From: v.navarrette at comcast.net (Vance Navarrette) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:04:48 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] pre-bent brake lines? In-Reply-To: <3470.75.56.62.200.1281569943.squirrel@wm.mydb3.com> Message-ID: <1BC8407DC83B470EB80D05E7CCF4AE08@HOMEBREW1> Jim: Classic Tube makes a complete pre-bent kit in steel or stainless, your choice. I think after you see the price for pre-bent, you will suddenly decide that the Moss Kit is the way to go =:-o Vance www.classictube.com -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jevans at mydb3.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 4:39 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] pre-bent brake lines? Anybody know of a source for pre-formed brake lines for RB MGB? Seems that Moss & VB only sell straight lines & bending tools. I am aware of the various DIY solutions to this need but would rather just take something out of a box and fasten it to the car. Jim Evans From richard.ewald at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 20:52:43 2010 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:52:43 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] pre-bent brake lines? In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C3C4@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <3470.75.56.62.200.1281569943.squirrel@wm.mydb3.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C3C4@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: Personally I find bending and flaring brake lines to be a easy project, and very satisfying. Depending on what you use for the line, the raw tubing can be dirt cheap. A couple of tubing benders which are not that expensive, and double flare kit is probably less than $50 Regardless of what kind of tubing you decide to use for the final installation, buy some bundyweld tubing (what they sell at the auto parts store in various lengths) and practice bends and flares. When you are ready buy your tubing in bulk and have at it. Rick On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Councill, David wrote: > It seems like I had this problem on my 72B which involved replacing > pretty much most of the brake lines. Ed of Just Brits said to use my > thumbs (literally). So I did, slowly, and the lines and I survived > unscathed. On my latest project, a 64B, I had to replace one of the rear > lines. This time I used a cheap Harbor Freight tube bender (less than > USD10) which was slightly easier/safer making a 90 degree bend. But > either way, it is not tough but does take a bit of time. The lines are > fairly flexible and are inexpensive (as I recall). > > David Councill > 64 B > 67 BGT > 72 B > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of jevans at mydb3.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:39 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] pre-bent brake lines? > > Anybody know of a source for pre-formed brake lines for RB MGB? Seems > that Moss & VB only sell straight lines & bending tools. I am aware of > the various DIY solutions to this need but would rather just take > something out of a box and fasten it to the car. > Jim Evans > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com From shop at justbrits.com Wed Aug 11 20:58:40 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 21:58:40 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] So you "think"... Message-ID: <4C636360.8050903@justbrits.com> ...yer having a bad day whilst on the way to Ortho Doc because back has gotten WORSE almost on 6th anniversary of org. prob !! http://www.justbrits.com/zz/wreck08_11.html At least the guy that RAN a Yield sign at about 10+ OVER posted speed limit jumps out of his Land Cruiser yelling: "I'm sorry !! It was my fault !!" at least 100 times, even to the two [2] Officers that answered call - both LONG time pals !! So ya suppose the guy knew he had a 'prob' when as he volunteered to drive me home was told by the Investigating Officer, "NO, I will be taking Ed home, sir !!" Damned near laughed out loud 'cause the look on the guys face was a Master Card Priceless candidate !!! Ed From paul at ece.rochester.edu Thu Aug 12 05:50:35 2010 From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:50:35 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help Message-ID: Hello, I need to have my OD transmission worked on. who can I take / send it to ? -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul at ece.rochester.edu From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 07:30:58 2010 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 06:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] So you "think"... In-Reply-To: <4C636360.8050903@justbrits.com> References: <4C636360.8050903@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <425000.10425.qm@web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Definitely not good for the back, Ed! Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: "Shop at " Just Brits "" To: 4 - Healeys ; 4 - Jensen-Cars ; 4 - MG List Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 10:58:40 PM Subject: [Mgs] So you "think"... ...yer having a bad day whilst on the way to Ortho Doc because back has gotten WORSE almost on 6th anniversary of org. prob !! http://www.justbrits.com/zz/wreck08_11.html At least the guy that RAN a Yield sign at about 10+ OVER posted speed limit jumps out of his Land Cruiser yelling: "I'm sorry !! It was my fault !!" at least 100 times, even to the two [2] Officers that answered call - both LONG time pals !! So ya suppose the guy knew he had a 'prob' when as he volunteered to drive me home was told by the Investigating Officer, "NO, I will be taking Ed home, sir !!" Damned near laughed out loud 'cause the look on the guys face was a Master Card Priceless candidate !!! Ed _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com Thu Aug 12 09:12:13 2010 From: mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com (W. David Houser) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:12:13 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] GT-35 Z Magnettes video Message-ID: Listers, For all who couldn't attend the GT, here is a peak at the largest gathering of Zed Magnettes ever! Cheers and enjoy Dave Houser http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-S6leAs9ik From mgbob at juno.com Thu Aug 12 09:31:24 2010 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:31:24 GMT Subject: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help Message-ID: <20100812.113124.14822.1@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> One of the best in the biz is John Esposito, Quantum Mechanics, Monroe CT. 203-459-9612. Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Paul Osborne To: MG List Subject: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:50:35 -0400 Hello, I need to have my OD transmission worked on. who can I take / send it to ? -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul at ece.rochester.edu _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From rpschauss at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 12:56:56 2010 From: rpschauss at gmail.com (Peter Schauss) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:56:56 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help Message-ID: Quantum Mechanics ( www.quantumechanics.com ) (without the double m). Peter Schauss 1980 MGB ============================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:50:35 -0400 From: Paul Osborne Subject: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help To: MG List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hello, I need to have my OD transmission worked on. who can I take / send it to ? -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul at ece.rochester.edu From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Thu Aug 12 13:31:44 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:31:44 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D8B4@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Well that makes two for Quantum. I also have a later OD transmission that needs worked on (sitting in my garage) but that's clear on the other side of the country. And my 67BGT also has a non-working OD but it is still in the car. I believe another place would be University Motors which has reopened. John Twist used to have clinics every year, usually in February, where you could attend along with your OD transmission and rebuild it in the session. I always wanted to do one of those except that would have involved possible treacherous long distance travel under winter conditions (below zero weather, possible heavy snow storms). David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Peter Schauss Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:57 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help Quantum Mechanics ( www.quantumechanics.com ) (without the double m). Peter Schauss 1980 MGB ============================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:50:35 -0400 From: Paul Osborne Subject: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help To: MG List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hello, I need to have my OD transmission worked on. who can I take / send it to ? -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul at ece.rochester.edu From vdiorio at hotmail.com Thu Aug 12 14:59:10 2010 From: vdiorio at hotmail.com (vincent diorio) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:59:10 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] Midget convertible top frame help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Someone please help! I asked for pictures of the 2-piece removeable convertible top frame for a 1966 midget that I am trying to restore, and the pictures someone was kind enough to send matched what I had, but the person putting on the top assures me that it is now the correct one. I need (PLEASE) pictures of the FRAME for the 1966 midget (2-pc) top frame, but will purchase one if I do not have the correct one. Can someone please help with such a picture or such a part? Thanx in advance! Vinny '66 Midget, '80 "B" > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:56:56 -0400 > From: rpschauss at gmail.com > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help > > Quantum Mechanics ( www.quantumechanics.com ) (without the double m). > > Peter Schauss > 1980 MGB > > ============================================================= > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:50:35 -0400 > From: Paul Osborne > Subject: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help > To: MG List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Hello, I need to have my OD transmission worked on. who can I take / > send it to ? > > -- > Paul Osborne > University of Rochester > Engineering & Technical Services > Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus > Rochester, New York 14627 > 585-275-5226 > paul at ece.rochester.edu > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/vdiorio at hotmail.com From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 14:55:44 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:55:44 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D8B4@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: It might be easier to diagnose the OD when it is in the car. Of course then the mechanic will have to remove it, if it requires a teardown. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/12/10 12:31 PM, Councill, David at dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote: > Well that makes two for Quantum. I also have a later OD transmission > that needs worked on (sitting in my garage) but that's clear on the > other side of the country. And my 67BGT also has a non-working OD but it > is still in the car. > > I believe another place would be University Motors which has reopened. > John Twist used to have clinics every year, usually in February, where > you could attend along with your OD transmission and rebuild it in the > session. I always wanted to do one of those except that would have > involved possible treacherous long distance travel under winter > conditions (below zero weather, possible heavy snow storms). > > David Councill > 64 B > 67 BGT > 72 B > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Peter Schauss > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:57 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help > > Quantum Mechanics ( www.quantumechanics.com ) (without the double m). > > Peter Schauss > 1980 MGB > > ============================================================= > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:50:35 -0400 > From: Paul Osborne > Subject: [Mgs] MGB Overdrive Help > To: MG List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Hello, I need to have my OD transmission worked on. who can I take / > send it to ? > > -- > Paul Osborne > University of Rochester > Engineering & Technical Services > Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus > Rochester, New York 14627 > 585-275-5226 > paul at ece.rochester.edu From vdiorio at hotmail.com Thu Aug 12 15:11:08 2010 From: vdiorio at hotmail.com (vincent diorio) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:11:08 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] Tops, hoods. In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Someone please help! I asked for pictures of the 2-piece removeable convertible top frame for a 1966 midget that I am trying to restore, and the pictures someone was kind enough to send matched what I had, but the person putting on the top assures me that it is now the correct one. I need (PLEASE) pictures of the FRAME for the 1966 midget (2-pc) top frame, but will purchase one if I do not have the correct one. Can someone please help with such a picture or such a part? Thanx in advance! Vinny '66 Midget, '80 "B" > From: tsouthworth70 at hotmail.com > To: redscirocco at hotmail.com; spridgets at autox.team.net; mgs at autox.team.net > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:48:16 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Tops, hoods. > > my .02 > > The Robbin's is great value and no issues after 12 years. Not so much with > Victory Bit. > > > From: redscirocco at hotmail.com > > To: spridgets at autox.team.net; mgs at autox.team.net > > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:41:48 -0500 > > Subject: [Mgs] Tops, hoods. > > > > I'm getting ready to buy a new vinyl top for my '73 Midget, and I'm looking > > for some advice on the price to value ratio of some of the commonly > available > > brands. I'm looking at: > > > > > > > > Ez-on - at $200 this is the least expensive option. U.S. made, with Haartz > > vinyl. > > > > > > > > Robbins - I think VB has these on sale for $329 - a company with name > > recognition and a good reputation > > > > > > > > Coventry - Also on sale, for $359 - OEM for not much more than Robbins. > > > > > > > > Now, like most of us, I plan to use the top as little as possible. > Hopefully, > > it will spend its summers tucked under the top boot, waiting for winter > > storage. Of course, that's not always possible, so I need a top that keeps > > water out of my new interior and doesn't look like a cheap rag for those > times > > when I get caught out in a shower. This is a driver, not a concours show > car, > > and the difference between the Ez-on and the Coventry would buy a lot of > other > > parts that I need. > > > > > > > > > > > > So I'm tempted to go for the Ez-on at $200 - does anyone have any > experience, > > positive or negative, with these tops? > > > > > > > > TIA, > > > > > > > > -Mike Eldred > > > > '73 Midget > > > > '54 MG TF > > > > '51 Willys M-38 > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive From vdiorio at hotmail.com Thu Aug 12 15:12:20 2010 From: vdiorio at hotmail.com (vincent diorio) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:12:20 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] [Spridgets] Tops, hoods. In-Reply-To: <6C23941F18674BDAAC708F42F45F439D@psych.washington.edu> References: , <6C23941F18674BDAAC708F42F45F439D@psych.washington.edu> Message-ID: Someone please help! I asked for pictures of the 2-piece removeable convertible top frame for a 1966 midget that I am trying to restore, and the pictures someone was kind enough to send matched what I had, but the person putting on the top assures me that it is now the correct one. I need (PLEASE) pictures of the FRAME for the 1966 midget (2-pc) top frame, but will purchase one if I do not have the correct one. Can someone please help with such a picture or such a part? Thanx in advance! Vinny (vdiorio at hotmail.com) '66 Midget, '80 "B" > From: richb at u.washington.edu > To: redscirocco at hotmail.com; spridgets at autox.team.net; mgs at autox.team.net > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:06:09 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Tops, hoods. > > Northwest Import Parts in the Portland Oregon area carries the Robbins tops > at a $279.00. Probably where I'll buy when I replace mine. NFI > > http://northwestimportparts.com/Midget-Tops-and-Tonneau-i46.aspx > > Rich Ball > '76 Midget > Everett, WA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Eldred" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:41 AM > Subject: [Spridgets] Tops, hoods. > > > > I'm getting ready to buy a new vinyl top for my '73 Midget, and I'm > > looking > > for some advice on the price to value ratio of some of the commonly > > available > > brands. I'm looking at: > > > > > > > > Ez-on - at $200 this is the least expensive option. U.S. made, with > > Haartz > > vinyl. > > > > > > > > Robbins - I think VB has these on sale for $329 - a company with name > > recognition and a good reputation > > > > > > > > Coventry - Also on sale, for $359 - OEM for not much more than Robbins. > > > > > > > > Now, like most of us, I plan to use the top as little as possible. > > Hopefully, > > it will spend its summers tucked under the top boot, waiting for winter > > storage. Of course, that's not always possible, so I need a top that > > keeps > > water out of my new interior and doesn't look like a cheap rag for those > > times > > when I get caught out in a shower. This is a driver, not a concours show > > car, > > and the difference between the Ez-on and the Coventry would buy a lot of > > other > > parts that I need. > > > > > > > > > > > > So I'm tempted to go for the Ez-on at $200 - does anyone have any > > experience, > > positive or negative, with these tops? > > > > > > > > TIA, > > > > > > > > -Mike Eldred > > > > '73 Midget > > > > '54 MG TF > > > > '51 Willys M-38 > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > > > You are subscribed as richb at u.washington.edu > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spridgets > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > You are subscribed as vdiorio at hotmail.com > > http://www.team.net/archive > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spridgets From PRNDL at sonic.net Thu Aug 12 23:08:48 2010 From: PRNDL at sonic.net (Rod Williams) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:08:48 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] pre-bent brake lines? In-Reply-To: <3470.75.56.62.200.1281569943.squirrel@wm.mydb3.com> References: <3470.75.56.62.200.1281569943.squirrel@wm.mydb3.com> Message-ID: <5C40A4F9-3683-4223-8022-1FF1F51E5F4B@sonic.net> On Aug 11, 2010, at 4:39 PM, jevans at mydb3.com wrote: > Anybody know of a source for pre-formed brake lines for RB MGB? I bought a full set of brake/clutch tubing form Classic Tube. They arrived in perfect condition. The longest tube was bent in half to fit the box but was easy to restore to proper shape. The tubing is all a perfect duplicate of the originals taken off of the car. They all fit first time with no corrections. They look just like they came on the car from the factory. I couldn't be happier. -- Rod Williams Petaluma, California 1967 MGB From thgun at comporium.net Fri Aug 13 04:23:15 2010 From: thgun at comporium.net (thgun at comporium.net) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 06:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] mga overheating Message-ID: <20100813062315.EUP75374@ms1.comporium.net> I took a test drive last night about 4 miles after finaly getting my 1957, 1500 mga running. Engine starts fine seemed to run good on the road and then I noticed the temp rising and the oil preasure dropping. Temp when all the way up. Oil preasure about 15lb. Limped home cooled the car off. I checked the water and it was full. I checked the oil and it was full. What checking should I start at this point? Tom 1957, 1500 , MGA rst. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Aug 13 08:10:01 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:10:01 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] mga overheating References: <20100813062315.EUP75374@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: I'd say it was a cooling issue that caused the oil pressure to drop. Newly rebuilt engines will run hotter than fully run-in as they are usually tighter. Crank stiffness should be checked with the plugs out. But something as simple as the thermostat not opening could have caused it, so warming up from cold keep feeling the top of the rad, it should stay cool as the temp gauge needle rises, then suddenly get very hot when the needle is around the 180F point, depending on what stat is fitted. If that happens then you need to check the radiator with an infra-red thermometer. Look for any cool spots which could indicate a blocked core, and compare the outlet temperature with the inlet. A big difference indicates lack of circulation through the core, possibly from a blockage anywhere in the circuit, or a problem with the pump. A small difference indicates too much heat is being generated by the engine for the radiator to dissipate. Causes can be retarded timing, mixture problems, as well as the stiffness mentioned previously. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- >I took a test drive last night about 4 miles after finaly getting my 1957, 1500 mga running. Engine starts fine seemed to run good on the road and then I noticed the temp rising and the oil preasure dropping. Temp when all the way up. Oil preasure about 15lb. From barneymg at mgaguru.com Fri Aug 13 09:56:49 2010 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:56:49 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] mga overheating In-Reply-To: <20100813062315.EUP75374@ms1.comporium.net> References: <20100813062315.EUP75374@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: <31274.64768.qm@smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I suppose 4 miles was not more than 10 minutes. That's hardly enough time to get the oil hot. But regardless of how long it runs or how hot it gets, oil pressure should never go as low as 15 pis (unless you have 300 rpm idle speed). You didn't say if it was an old engine or freshly rebuilt. Engine in good condition should have 50-70 psi at road speed (depending on pressure relief valve setting). It should also maintain 40 psi oil pressure at idle speed (700-1000 rpm), or at least 30 psi with abnormally low idle speed (~500-600 rpm). When I see 40 psi at road speed and 20 psi at HOT idle, it's time for serious investigation of the oil system. Good pressure in past going gradually to low pressure now, suspect worn con-rod bearings. Bad bearings is commonly accompanied by bearing knock. Low idle pressure with no knock, may be low oil flow rate, suspect pressure relief valve stuck open. Low pressure when you got the car, could be anything, but check oil pressire relief vavle, oil pump, and conrod bearings in that order (easiest things first). Overheating is sometimes a relative thing, but it should not peg the gauge on a 10 minute drive. Defective thermostat, stuck shut or barely opening, might be the first suspect. Check to be sure the fan belt is snug. Also be sure the fan blade is right way around, convex side forward, concave side rearward. For car with heater, three 4-inch air hoses should be in place, as well as the felt pad under bonnet on top of radiator. For no heater, one air hose left side forward, plus blanking plate on right side of radiator mount diaphgarm. For short trip light to light city driving or standing still in stop and stop traffic, a fan shroud is amazingly effective at keeping coolant temp under 220dF. Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude http://MGAguru.com At 06:23 AM 8/13/2010 -0400, thgun at comporium.net wrote: >I took a test drive last night about 4 miles after finaly getting my >1957, 1500 mga running. Engine starts fine seemed to run good on the >road and then I noticed the temp rising and the oil preasure >dropping. Temp when all the way up. Oil preasure about 15lb. Limped >home cooled the car off. I checked the water and it was full. I >checked the oil and it was full. What checking should I start at this point? >.... From rocknatural at gmail.com Fri Aug 13 17:18:42 2010 From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:18:42 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] mga overheating In-Reply-To: <20100813062315.EUP75374@ms1.comporium.net> References: <20100813062315.EUP75374@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: <4C65D2D2.1080803@gmail.com> thgun at comporium.net wrote: > I took a test drive last night about 4 miles after finaly getting my 1957, 1500 mga running. Engine starts fine seemed to run good on the road and then I noticed the temp rising and the oil preasure dropping. Temp when all the way up. Oil preasure about 15lb. Limped home cooled the car off. I checked the water and it was full. I checked the oil and it was full. What checking should I start at this point? Could be exacerbated by timing or carburetion, but it sounds to me like a stuck thermostat or a clog in the block. -Rocky Frisco -- From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Fri Aug 13 20:24:42 2010 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 22:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] Morris Minor Traveller For Sale - Stock Appearance- Updated mechanicals/automatic transmission Message-ID: <8511357.1281752682335.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Gang, The car belongs to an old friend in San Francisco and really needs some one who can use and enjoy it - With the automatic, it is no powerhouse but it drives great and is well put together - I'm blasting this all over CA as Bob really wants to sell it soon. Check it out and pass it on... Thanks, Rick ******************************************************* 1967 Morris Minor Traveller For Sale Stock Appearance- Updated mechanicals/automatic transmission This beautiful dark green 1967 Traveller had been totally restored in Yorkshire, England in 1984 and bought by Michael Freeman, an American engineer, while he was on work assignment in the UK. Mike brought the little car back to San Jose, CA when his job was completed. He drove the woody occasionally on weekends for less than a year when he was reassigned to the Denver area and the car went into storage in Union City, CA. When he learned that he was going to be there permanently, he called the Morris Minor Club to say it was for sale The present owner found out about the car from the local chapter of the Morris Minor Registry because he wanted to give it to his wife as a combination birthday and anniversary gift to use in the Antique store that she was planning to open.. He bought it and had it serviced and detailed before hiding it in the garage for the big surprise. An additional surprise was that she was unable to make peace with the stick shift and the car was used only sparingly on weekends with hubby at the wheel. In the late 1990s, the car was sent to Morris Minor guru Bruce Wyman (Morriservice founder) in Grass Valley, CA and professionally converted to a Datsun 1500 engine and automatic transmission, as well as disc brakes so she would be able to drive it smoothly while negotiating the hills of San Francisco. Due to other projects for the couple, many out of town, the Antique business never happened and now, after over 20 years and many, many thousands of dollars the car is being put up for sale.... The car still looks like it came new except for the lack of a clutch pedal and has all of the charm of an original (it even sounds Morris!) with the connivance of more power, better brakes and an automatic transmission. While the paint is old it is still in reasonable shape with few chips or flaws. The wood had been totally replaced during the English restoration and has been professionally refinished once since. The car has been featured in a number of publications and websites. You may see a picture and read a story about the car before the Datsun automatic conversion at: http://www.autowire.net/1999-27.html Asking price is $16,800 Contact: Bob Mendelsohn: 415-305-9313 email: From ladaniels at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 14 12:36:39 2010 From: ladaniels at sbcglobal.net (Larry Daniels) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:36:39 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] World Micro/Minicar Meet Message-ID: <9917DC216F9447718F58C22FAEE6F95D@HomePC> Anybody going to the World Microcar/Minicar Meet outside of Chicago next weekend? August 21 & 22 in Crystal Lake, IL. http://www.worldmeet2010.com/ From thgun at comporium.net Sun Aug 15 16:23:22 2010 From: thgun at comporium.net (Tom Gunderson) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:23:22 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Overheating Message-ID: Thanks for all your responces. I Changed the oil and filter. I drained the water and replaced the thermostat with a 195 deg. I tightened the fan belt. At this point the car still overheats after driving about 6 miles 50 mph, 3000 rpm. The oil preasure is about 20 pounds at 3000 rpm. I have not checked the timming. What is the best way to do that? Tom Gunderson 1957, 1500, MGA rst From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Sun Aug 15 16:24:53 2010 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] Morris Minor Collection For Sale/Van/Sedans/Convert/rare Minor 1, 000, 000 Message-ID: <6979836.1281911093259.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Morris Minor Collection - stored in Portland, Oregon This is a collection of Morris Minors that are owned by the man who owned Morriservice in Portland for many years, and has been a great friend to many Morris owners in need of parts, service, information and advice. His son Joey has now asked us (The Morris Minor Registry) to publicize the following cars that are being sold due to Paul's health issues. You can contact Joey directly by e-mail: I know the most about the Million; the rest of the short descriptions are from a quick visual inspection plus Paulbs comments and memories. Joey stressed that the cars are sold b AS ISb and that interested buyers should view the cars themselves. He doesnbt know that much about them, and Paulbs memories can be a little spotty. He will be back in Portland THIS WEEK, from Monday the 16th through Sunday the 21st of August. The cars are being sold, along with the Morriservice business and his stock of parts, to provide funds for Paulbs recent move to SoCal. If youbre interested in any of these cars, please contact Joey directly by email: He has asked not to be contacted by telephone. (1) 1961 MORRIS MINOR MILLION two-door sedan - $3,500 This is one of 350 special b Minor Millionsb built to commemorate the Minorbs status as the first British car to reach a production of one million units in 1961. It is an original LHD model with the serial number b 1000001b stamped into the firewall, one of fewer than 20 LHD Millions. Itbs also one of only three Minor Millions currently known in the U.S. (there are also a few in Canada). The Million needs total restoration inside and out. Its original lilac paint is covered in black primer on the outside, with red crackle finish inside the engine compartment and on the dashboard. The shell is rust-free, but the roof is lumpy. The trunk lid, hood, grille surround, and possibly one front fender arenbt original. The car hasnbt run since 1980 or so. It has a non-original, non-running 948cc engine and gearbox, though theybre of the right period for the car. None of the original white leather upholstery, piped in black, remains. It comes with a new period headliner and visors. Joey and Paul think they have b Minor 1000000b side badges for the hood sides, plus the special b 000b addition for a standard b 1000b trunk badgebbut they canbt locate them at the moment. The car was uncovered around 1980 by Rick Feibusch and Jeff Davis in San Francisco. It comes with documentation since then, various articles on Millions, and a British Motor Industry Heritage Collection certificate. The price of $3,500 reflects what Paul spent on the car. It has sat indoors for 30 years without ever being restored. Itbs a rare and unique Minor, although as an early article on Millions points out, b It takes a special man to drive a lilac Morris Minor.b (2) MORRIS MINOR VAN, no running gear - $2,500 This white van body is complete and rust-free, has no running gear, and would be an excellent basis for a restoration. (3) 1960 (?) MORRIS MINOR two-door sedan - $3,500 This car was Paulbs blue daily driver; itbs rust-free and in solid running condition. It has a good-running 950 and a very quiet ribcase gearbox, along with a 3.90 rear-axle ratio. It could and should go right back on the road and continue to provide daily transportation. (4) MORRIS MINOR two-door sedan - $750 This was Paulbs previous daily driver, with more than 500,000 miles racked up over several decades. It has some rust in the floorpans and doorsills, and is fitted with a Datsun 1400 and five-speed, along with 13-inch wheels. It doesnbt look great, but is said to run. Whether itbs a parts car or worth restoring back to running condition is debatable. (5) MORRIS MINOR CONVERTIBLE shell, no running gear - $500 This convertible body is complete and rust-free, totally disassembled and in primer. It too has no running gear, and would be an excellent basis for a restoration. (6) EARLY-1970s SPRIDGET PARTS CAR - offers From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Sun Aug 15 18:28:06 2010 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:28:06 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Overheating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tom, For the timing to cause such level of overheating, it would have to be a long way off, so you should start with a check of static timing. This is easy to do with an MGA, since you can use the starting handle to turn the engine over. Do you have oil pressure when cold? 20 psi at 3000 rpm is way too low. Did you check that the fan is installed the right way round? Is the water pump actually working? Barney advised checking the large hoses and the sealing between the radiator and the bonnet. I am sure these make a difference, but I don't have these on my '57 MGA and it doesn't get that hot that quickly, even if the temperature is close to 100F. I would not use a 195 F thermostat in summer, but I don't think this is your problem. Simon On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Tom Gunderson wrote: > Thanks for all your responces. I Changed the oil and filter. I drained the > water and replaced the thermostat with a 195 deg. I tightened the fan belt. > At this point the car still overheats after driving about 6 miles 50 mph, 3000 > rpm. The oil preasure is about 20 pounds at 3000 rpm. I have not checked the > timming. What is the best way to do that? > Tom Gunderson > 1957, 1500, MGA rst > ___ From msjeffcock at eastlink.ca Sun Aug 15 19:29:18 2010 From: msjeffcock at eastlink.ca (Malcolm Jeffcock) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 22:29:18 -0300 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation Message-ID: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> well as some know I have installed a "new" engine which I must say is pretty good-compression of 150lbs across all 4. I have had electronic ignition installed and that's fine but I am having a hesitation problem. When cold its ok or driving around town with a constant variation of revs but once I start to cruise along with revs at say 3300 and then I try to accelerate I have hesitation, at time severe, it also seems to be brought on if I go up a hill as driving at steady rev level, it feels like it is only running on 3 or 2 cylinders when this happens, feels just like when head gasket went in the past. If the car is idling in driveway I can rev engine to high revs without a problem Could it be a situation of the fuel pump being able to provide enough fuel but not being able to respond to the additional demand for fuel as required for acceleration? I should mention that the original SU pump was replaced with an aftermarket 3.5-5.0 lib pump... I adjusted the fuel mixture to make it richer but that didn't help at all...any thoughts? Malcolm From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 16 02:01:46 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:01:46 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Overheating References: Message-ID: <6E063CF055AE4018AD14123A7CA1D672@paul> That sounds like very low circulation of the coolant to me, I'd expect no circulation at all to get to the top of the gauge sooner than that, depending on what your ambient temperature is. Did you check the radiator during warm up from cold as previously advised? PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > At this point the car still overheats after driving about 6 miles 50 mph, > 3000 > rpm. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 16 02:08:43 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:08:43 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Message-ID: <079B7F3D18C14BA899B86DC56AB63455@paul> What you describe sounds like flat-spotting, which can be caused by insufficient damping of the carb pistons when accelerating. It can also be caused at a steady throttle but an increasing load by incorrect needles being too weak in mid-range but that is usually 'corrected' by richening, either by adjusting the jets or pulling the choke slightly, what does pulling the choke do? Fuel pump is easy to check, disconnect a delivery pipe from a carb and direct it into a container. With the ignition on it should deliver at least one Imperial pint per minute, and in practice closer to two, in a steady stream of pulses with minimal bubbling. That's the spec for an SU pump, but if an after-market doesn't deliver at least that it isn't up to the job. What's the tach doing when this is happening? Steady or jumping around? PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > When cold its ok or driving around town with a constant variation of revs > but once I start to cruise along with revs at say 3300 and then I try to > accelerate I have hesitation, at time severe, it also seems to be brought > on if I go up a hill as driving at steady rev level From mgbob at juno.com Mon Aug 16 09:13:39 2010 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:13:39 GMT Subject: [Mgs] MGA Overheating Message-ID: <20100816.111339.2002.7@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Hi Tom, Replacing the 'stat should eliminate the possibility of the old 'stat sticking closed. Timing would have to be way off the mark to cause the rapid overheating you are experiencing. If the car performs half-way as it should, timing won't be so far off that it would heat this fast. Check timing anyway, but I don't believe it's your problem. Static timing check is OK for this. Description is in the book, section B.7. You set the points opening, w feeler gauge or dwell meter, turn engine with starting handle to get the pulley notch aligned with the 5 degree pointer, then clip a 12v test light to the points so it lights/extinguishes when you turn the distributor back & forth a few degrees. Turn distrib clockwise to extinguish the light, then turn slowly anti clockwise just until test lamp lights. Clamp the distributor. You will adjust better later, but that's static timing, quick & easy. While you are turning the engine with the starting handle, observe the fan rotation and the cup of the blades. Compare to illustration in book, fig C.3. Cupped side should be aft, toward engine, with the metal web that bolts to the pulley forward. If installed backward, it will move some air, but not much, and it's prone to breakage. What comes out of the radiator when you open the drain cock? Is it acceptable coolant or a gooey mess of crud? What comes out of the drain tap on right side, rear, of the block, Fig C.2? These are frequently clogged (usually might be more accurate term) but you should find some flow of coolant when the cock is removed. Does the engine heat up less quickly when heater valve is open? Opening the valve allows the coolant to circulate through another few feet of hose and another smaller radiator (heater heat exchanger). If heater is not heating, something is clogged, probably the valve (R&R) but that's not THE problem, just A low-priority problem. Keep us posted. Bob Does the heater blow hot air when the engine is hot? ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Tom Gunderson" To: Subject: [Mgs] MGA Overheating Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:23:22 -0400 Thanks for all your responces. I Changed the oil and filter. I drained the water and replaced the thermostat with a 195 deg. I tightened the fan belt. At this point the car still overheats after driving about 6 miles 50 mph, 3000 rpm. The oil preasure is about 20 pounds at 3000 rpm. I have not checked the timming. What is the best way to do that? Tom Gunderson 1957, 1500, MGA rst _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From mgbob at juno.com Mon Aug 16 09:22:04 2010 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:22:04 GMT Subject: [Mgs] hesitation Message-ID: <20100816.112204.2002.8@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Further to Paul's comments: Check the level of the oil in the dashpots. If too low the mixture is lean for accelleration as the pistons rise too fast. MG specified motor oil for top-up. Did you install a pressure regulator with that aftermarket pump? It would not seem that the stumble would caused by excess fuel to the carbs, but one supposes it's possible that a regulator might not respond quickly enough to increased demand for fuel. Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Malcolm Jeffcock To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] hesitation Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 22:29:18 -0300 well as some know I have installed a "new" engine which I must say is pretty good-compression of 150lbs across all 4. I have had electronic ignition installed and that's fine but I am having a hesitation problem. When cold its ok or driving around town with a constant variation of revs but once I start to cruise along with revs at say 3300 and then I try to accelerate I have hesitation, at time severe, it also seems to be brought on if I go up a hill as driving at steady rev level, it feels like it is only running on 3 or 2 cylinders when this happens, feels just like when head gasket went in the past. If the car is idling in driveway I can rev engine to high revs without a problem Could it be a situation of the fuel pump being able to provide enough fuel but not being able to respond to the additional demand for fuel as required for acceleration? I should mention that the original SU pump was replaced with an aftermarket 3.5-5.0 lib pump... I adjusted the fuel mixture to make it richer but that didn't help at all...any thoughts? Malcolm _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From v.navarrette at comcast.net Mon Aug 16 09:29:05 2010 From: v.navarrette at comcast.net (Vance Navarrette) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:29:05 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation In-Reply-To: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Message-ID: Malcolm: First thing to check is that you have sufficient oil in the dashpots of your carbs. How are your air filters? A heavy load of filth in them can starve the engine for air. Try going back to conventional ignition to insure that your new fangled electronics are not the source of the issue. Vance -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Malcolm Jeffcock Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 6:29 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] hesitation well as some know I have installed a "new" engine which I must say is pretty good-compression of 150lbs across all 4. I have had electronic ignition installed and that's fine but I am having a hesitation problem. When cold its ok or driving around town with a constant variation of revs but once I start to cruise along with revs at say 3300 and then I try to accelerate I have hesitation, at time severe, it also seems to be brought on if I go up a hill as driving at steady rev level, it feels like it is only running on 3 or 2 cylinders when this happens, feels just like when head gasket went in the past. If the car is idling in driveway I can rev engine to high revs without a problem Could it be a situation of the fuel pump being able to provide enough fuel but not being able to respond to the additional demand for fuel as required for acceleration? Malcolm From guinness at stclegal.com Mon Aug 16 10:32:15 2010 From: guinness at stclegal.com (Robert J. Guinness) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:32:15 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Overheating Message-ID: <4C69680F.2090001@stclegal.com> For a video on timing an MGA see John Twist on Youtube at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpp67aqwM2Y You reported that you saw no oil consumption. Take a look again. Is there oil on the underside of your engine trailing to the rear? If so, it could be a rear engine "seal". Oil bypassing the seal can give these symptoms. But you would see the oil leaking. -- Robert Guinness From palte at gmx.net Mon Aug 16 12:07:52 2010 From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:07:52 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] mga overheating In-Reply-To: <20100813062315.EUP75374@ms1.comporium.net> References: <20100813062315.EUP75374@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: <20100816180700.C316318790F@autox.team.net> Hello Tom, How about the radiator, has it been 'rebuilt' (perhaps inadequately) recently? Just my $ .02 worth Bert At 12:23 13-8-2010, you wrote: >I took a test drive last night about 4 miles after finaly getting my >1957, 1500 mga running. Engine starts fine seemed to run good on the >road and then I noticed the temp rising and the oil preasure >dropping. Temp when all the way up. Oil preasure about 15lb. Limped >home cooled the car off. I checked the water and it was full. I >checked the oil and it was full. What checking should I start at this point? > >Tom >1957, 1500 , MGA rst. >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/palte at gmx.net From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Mon Aug 16 13:10:36 2010 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:10:36 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation In-Reply-To: References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Message-ID: What is the old truism about 90% of fuel problems turing out to be ignition problems? I would check the ignition system over fully. It's possible that it has enough energy to produce a spark at small throttle openings, but when you accellerate, more air goes into the cylinders, producing a higher pressure, which requires a higher voltage to get a spark. Simon On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Vance Navarrette wrote: > Malcolm: > > First thing to check is that you have sufficient oil in the > dashpots of your carbs. > > How are your air filters? A heavy load of filth in them can > starve the engine for air. > > Try going back to conventional ignition to insure that your new > fangled electronics are not the source of the issue. > > Vance > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Malcolm Jeffcock > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 6:29 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] hesitation > > > well as some know I have installed a "new" engine which I must say is > pretty good-compression of 150lbs across all 4. I have had electronic > ignition installed and that's fine but I am having a hesitation problem. > > > When cold its ok or driving around town with a constant variation of > revs but once I start to cruise along with revs at say 3300 and then I > try to accelerate I have hesitation, at time severe, it also seems to be > brought on if I go up a hill as driving at steady rev level, it feels > like it is only running on 3 or 2 cylinders when this happens, feels > just like when head gasket went in the past. If the car is idling in > driveway I can rev engine to high revs without a problem Could it be a > situation of the fuel pump being able to provide enough fuel but not > being able to respond to the additional demand for fuel as required for > acceleration? > > > > Malcolm > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com From msjeffcock at eastlink.ca Mon Aug 16 13:54:58 2010 From: msjeffcock at eastlink.ca (Malcolm Jeffcock) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:54:58 -0300 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Message-ID: <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> new electronic ignition (was doing it with points etc. as well) new plugs, reasonably new sport coil.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Matthews" To: "Malcolm Jeffcock" Cc: Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] hesitation What is the old truism about 90% of fuel problems turing out to be ignition problems? I would check the ignition system over fully. It's possible that it has enough energy to produce a spark at small throttle openings, but when you accellerate, more air goes into the cylinders, producing a higher pressure, which requires a higher voltage to get a spark. Simon On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Vance Navarrette wrote: > Malcolm: > > First thing to check is that you have sufficient oil in the > dashpots of your carbs. > > How are your air filters? A heavy load of filth in them can > starve the engine for air. > > Try going back to conventional ignition to insure that your new > fangled electronics are not the source of the issue. > > Vance > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Malcolm Jeffcock > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 6:29 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] hesitation > > > well as some know I have installed a "new" engine which I must say is > pretty good-compression of 150lbs across all 4. I have had electronic > ignition installed and that's fine but I am having a hesitation problem. > > > When cold its ok or driving around town with a constant variation of > revs but once I start to cruise along with revs at say 3300 and then I > try to accelerate I have hesitation, at time severe, it also seems to be > brought on if I go up a hill as driving at steady rev level, it feels > like it is only running on 3 or 2 cylinders when this happens, feels > just like when head gasket went in the past. If the car is idling in > driveway I can rev engine to high revs without a problem Could it be a > situation of the fuel pump being able to provide enough fuel but not > being able to respond to the additional demand for fuel as required for > acceleration? > > > > Malcolm > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3075 - Release Date: 08/16/10 06:35:00 From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Mon Aug 16 14:43:44 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:43:44 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation In-Reply-To: <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D8C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> I throw in another possibility based on the description as it sounds similar to a problem I had last year with my 67BGT. The problem was intermittent but usually happened after the engine was at operating temperature and when trying to accelerate after maintaining a steady speed (probably 2800-3200 rpm). Mine was more of a hesitation, somewhat of a miss. Maybe the same problem, maybe something entirely different, but we are relying on personal descriptions here. It took a bit of time to figure out my problem but it was the front carb piston (HS4s) that would stick after maintaining steady operation, partially elevated but hung up trying to go up further. I had to monkey around with piston/jet alignment (rise/drop motions) until I got it running smooth again. Anyway, another thing to check along with other suggestions given. As Paul mentioned earlier - what does the tach do when this happens? That will help differentiate whether its electrical or fuel (assuming it is not a mechanical tach from 1965 or earlier). David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Malcolm Jeffcock > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 6:29 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] hesitation > > > well as some know I have installed a "new" engine which I must say is > pretty good-compression of 150lbs across all 4. I have had electronic > ignition installed and that's fine but I am having a hesitation problem. > > > When cold its ok or driving around town with a constant variation of > revs but once I start to cruise along with revs at say 3300 and then I > try to accelerate I have hesitation, at time severe, it also seems to be > brought on if I go up a hill as driving at steady rev level, it feels > like it is only running on 3 or 2 cylinders when this happens, feels > just like when head gasket went in the past. If the car is idling in > driveway I can rev engine to high revs without a problem Could it be a > situation of the fuel pump being able to provide enough fuel but not > being able to respond to the additional demand for fuel as required for > acceleration? > > > > Malcolm From richard.ewald at gmail.com Mon Aug 16 15:19:02 2010 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:19:02 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D8C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D8C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: Don't forget that a secondary (HT) ignition problem won't show up on the tach. My first thought was a misfire when I read the OP. Have you pulled the plugs? What do they look like? Do all 4 look the same? From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 17 03:40:51 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:40:51 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91><05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91><4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D8C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <14B7BD1AB26B4C779DE57DB6E63A620D@paul> Of course not, nor fuel problems, but it *will* direct attention to or away from the LT side of the ignition which was the point of mentioning it. Checking the tach (and the ignition warning light) should always be the first step when you get a misfire or the engine cuts out, as soon as it happens, i.e. when the momentum of the car is still spinning the engine. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Don't forget that a secondary (HT) ignition problem won't show up on the > tach. From msjeffcock at eastlink.ca Tue Aug 17 04:43:11 2010 From: msjeffcock at eastlink.ca (Malcolm Jeffcock) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:43:11 -0300 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D8C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> <14B7BD1AB26B4C779DE57DB6E63A620D@paul> Message-ID: <072001cb3df8$fd4b10d0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Hello to all: plugs look fine, much as you'd expect after about 400 miles. When the car hesitates or loses power on the upslope of a hill tach slowly drops from say 3300 to 2500m what it displays is in keeping with what you'd expect if allowing the car to decelerate. I don't see tach dropping to 0 and back up. Choke no help once it starts to occur...I didn't drive it yesterday but will get out and try with choke out from the start. I will keep you advised.... Malcolm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hunt" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] hesitation > Of course not, nor fuel problems, but it *will* direct attention to or > away > from the LT side of the ignition which was the point of mentioning it. > Checking the tach (and the ignition warning light) should always be the > first step when you get a misfire or the engine cuts out, as soon as it > happens, i.e. when the momentum of the car is still spinning the engine. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Don't forget that a secondary (HT) ignition problem won't show up on the >> tach. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/msjeffcock at eastlink.ca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3076 - Release Date: 08/16/10 18:35:00 From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 17 05:21:02 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:21:02 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D8C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> <14B7BD1AB26B4C779DE57DB6E63A620D@paul> <072001cb3df8$fd4b10d0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Message-ID: <9055122E3FD045C1BD7573FFEBA78034@paul> OK, HT or fuel then, or possibly condenser of which new ones are well known to give problems. And if pulling the choke *made no difference at all* then probably fuel, as pulling the choke when it didn't need it should make it run even worse. Did you do the fuel delivery check? The other test is when this starts happening on the road, and it is safe to do so, switch off the ignition and bring the car to a halt, then turn on the ignition and listen to the pump before starting the engine, then start and drive off and note whether it is running OK or not. Also stop when it is happening and remove the fuel filler cap and see if you get a gasp or not, or even, on quiet roads, drive with the filler cap removed and see if it still happens. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > When the car hesitates or loses power on the upslope of a hill tach slowly > drops from say 3300 to 2500m what it displays is in keeping with what > you'd expect if allowing the car to decelerate. I don't see tach dropping > to 0 and back up. Choke no help once it starts to occur... From thgun at comporium.net Tue Aug 17 09:11:02 2010 From: thgun at comporium.net (thgun at comporium.net) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] MGA overheating Message-ID: <20100817111102.EUX45064@ms1.comporium.net> I took the car out for another test drive. Drove about 4 miles and the temp went up on the dash gauge to over 230 deg. f. I had a IF thermometer and the temp at the sensor on the side of the engine read 210 deg. f. The dash gauge seemed to be 30 or more deg. higher than the dash gauge. When I got home I let the car idle a while. I noticed that when I revved the engine I could hear a knocking. I plan to take the valve cover off and check valve rockers. The oil was about 20 pounds at 3000 rpm, road speed. Tom 1957,1500 MGA rst From mgbob at juno.com Tue Aug 17 09:56:05 2010 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:56:05 GMT Subject: [Mgs] MGA overheating Message-ID: <20100817.115605.12918.2@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Hi Tom, Neither pressure nor temperatures fall within specs, which you knew. Were you able to force water through the block and radiator with the garden hose? If not, then that radiator should come off for a visit to radiator shop. While it's off, remove and inspect the water pump too. The temp rise is faster and greater than I would expect in just four miles unless water is not circulating at all. 210 on the IR gauge is still too hot too soon. Was the rad cap steaming? The temperature problem could also be from a water pump that is not pumping. Though I have not seen one, I am told that some aftermarket water pumps had impellers that rusted away to nothing, so that there was no pumping of water. Were you able to force water through the block so that it flowed out the drain cock on the side? Can you describe the knocking? This low oil pressure is probably related to the high temperatures reducing viscosity somewhat; 20 psi at 3M rpm could be big-end bearing-related. Less audible is excess clearance of rockers to the rocker shaft, but this area can bleed off some oil pressure too. Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] MGA overheating Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:11:02 -0400 (EDT) I took the car out for another test drive. Drove about 4 miles and the temp went up on the dash gauge to over 230 deg. f. I had a IF thermometer and the temp at the sensor on the side of the engine read 210 deg. f. The dash gauge seemed to be 30 or more deg. higher than the dash gauge. When I got home I let the car idle a while. I noticed that when I revved the engine I could hear a knocking. I plan to take the valve cover off and check valve rockers. The oil was about 20 pounds at 3000 rpm, road speed. Tom 1957,1500 MGA rst _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From ccrobins at ktc.com Tue Aug 17 10:12:41 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:12:41 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation In-Reply-To: <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Message-ID: <4C6AB4F9.7030004@ktc.com> I had the problem you describe when I got a rebuilt engine running with twin SUs.. Turned out, after I bought and used a Unisyn gauge, that the carbs were way out of balance; I.E.: it was essentially running on one carb at part throttle. If you have twin carbs you might want to check this out. CR From redscirocco at hotmail.com Tue Aug 17 10:29:59 2010 From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:29:59 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGA overheating In-Reply-To: <20100817111102.EUX45064@ms1.comporium.net> References: <20100817111102.EUX45064@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: I have never heard of a water pump impeller rusting away to nothing as Bob says, but I'm not doubting him. You never know what kind of junk is out there, I guess. I still wouldn't buy a new one without examining the pump you have first. If the water is not circulating, I would suspect there's a blockage somewhere before I'd suspect a missing impeller. Without hearing it, I would guess the knocking explains the low oil pressure - worn rod bearings. The valve train might "clack" due to the a lack of oil pressure, but I wouldn't describe the sound as a "knock." -Mike Eldred Wilmington, VT '54 MG TF '73 Midget > From: thgun at comporium.net > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:11:02 -0400 > Subject: [Mgs] MGA overheating > > I took the car out for another test drive. Drove about 4 miles and the temp went up on the dash gauge to over 230 deg. f. I had a IF thermometer and the temp at the sensor on the side of the engine read 210 deg. f. The dash gauge seemed to be 30 or more deg. higher than the dash gauge. > When I got home I let the car idle a while. I noticed that when I revved the engine I could hear a knocking. I plan to take the valve cover off and check valve rockers. The oil was about 20 pounds at 3000 rpm, road speed. > Tom > 1957,1500 MGA rst > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com From richard.ewald at gmail.com Tue Aug 17 11:03:46 2010 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:03:46 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA overheating In-Reply-To: References: <20100817111102.EUX45064@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: <7C76F43E-2C07-4AF0-AB71-2EA0B51C9C9D@gmail.com> While I have never seen an impeller rust off back in the early 80s there were MG pumps with plastic impellers that would either fall off or melt off causing over heating. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 17, 2010, at 9:29, Mike Eldred wrote: > I have never heard of a water pump impeller rusting away to nothing as Bob > says, but I'm not doubting him. You never know what kind of junk is out > there, I guess. I still wouldn't buy a new one without examining the pump you > have first. If the water is not circulating, I would suspect there's a > blockage somewhere before I'd suspect a missing impeller. > > Without hearing it, I would guess the knocking explains the low oil pressure - > worn rod bearings. The valve train might "clack" due to the a lack of oil > pressure, but I wouldn't describe the sound as a "knock." > > -Mike Eldred > Wilmington, VT > '54 MG TF > '73 Midget > >> From: thgun at comporium.net >> To: mgs at autox.team.net >> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:11:02 -0400 >> Subject: [Mgs] MGA overheating >> >> I took the car out for another test drive. Drove about 4 miles and the temp > went up on the dash gauge to over 230 deg. f. I had a IF thermometer and the > temp at the sensor on the side of the engine read 210 deg. f. The dash gauge > seemed to be 30 or more deg. higher than the dash gauge. >> When I got home I let the car idle a while. I noticed that when I revved the > engine I could hear a knocking. I plan to take the valve cover off and check > valve rockers. The oil was about 20 pounds at 3000 rpm, road speed. >> Tom >> 1957,1500 MGA rst >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com From mallan at tampabay.rr.com Wed Aug 18 06:47:21 2010 From: mallan at tampabay.rr.com (Marvin A. Avery) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:47:21 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Hesitation Message-ID: Malcolm, I had a similar problem with a 57 Chevy I owned some 40+ years ago. Turns out all it needed was a new fuel filter. Lesson learned. Just one more thing to check. Marvin From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Wed Aug 18 09:22:04 2010 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:22:04 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA overheating In-Reply-To: <20100817111102.EUX45064@ms1.comporium.net> References: <20100817111102.EUX45064@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: Tom, I doubt that rocker clearances would cause your overheating or low oil pressure problems. At this point, I don't think you know whether you have: 1. A problem causing the engine to PRODUCE excessive heat OR: 2. A cooling system that is not working properly. Assuming the fan is working properly (and is installed the correct way round), simply checking the temperature of the radiator when the engine is hot should determine which of the above two possibilities is the cause of your overheating problem. Does your oil pressure start high, then drop, or is it never more than about 20psi? Simon On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:11 AM, wrote: > I took the car out for another test drive. Drove about 4 miles and the temp went up on the dash gauge to over 230 deg. f. I had a IF thermometer and the temp at the sensor on the side of the engine read 210 deg. f. The dash gauge seemed to be 30 or more deg. higher than the dash gauge. > When I got home I let the car idle a while. I noticed that when I revved the engine I could hear a knocking. I plan to take the valve cover off and check valve rockers. The oil was about 20 pounds at 3000 rpm, road speed. > Tom > 1957,1500 MGA rst > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com From msjeffcock at eastlink.ca Wed Aug 18 10:02:00 2010 From: msjeffcock at eastlink.ca (Malcolm Jeffcock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:02:00 -0300 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6AB4F9.7030004@ktc.com> Message-ID: <001c01cb3eee$b159ebf0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> I think I have ruled that out as the carbs were set up "professionally" that is to say I didn't have a chance to mess them up ;-) Anyway to answer some of the question about symptoms I have had the B out and about this morning and can state that: 1. when it happens the tach stays as it except as the car loses power and slows that tach drops as well...it is not instant with the hesitation/"coughing" 2. I went up a steep hill to try and create the hesitation and did virtually coming to a stop...I then tried same engine speed/gear to go at the hill again and had the choke full out, it helped car slowed but din't slow to anywhere near the extent it had. 3. Pulling out the choke once I am in "hesitation mode" is of no help but driving with choke out has helped some. 4. I have a relatively small sized fuel filter before the carbs, small as in the body..so could that be creating a restriction of fuel flow to the carbs when the demand for fuel increases? I am suspecting fuel pumps which is not and SU is the problem? Malcolm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley & Peggy Robinson" To: "Malcolm Jeffcock" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] hesitation > > I had the problem you describe when I got a rebuilt engine running with > twin SUs.. Turned out, after I bought and used a Unisyn gauge, that the > carbs were way out of balance; I.E.: it was essentially running on one > carb at part throttle. If you have twin carbs you might want to check > this out. > > CR > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3077 - Release Date: 08/17/10 06:35:00 From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Aug 19 01:40:34 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:40:34 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91><05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6AB4F9.7030004@ktc.com> <001c01cb3eee$b159ebf0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Message-ID: <038E44182B5F41508F559DE5DC021EDB@paul> As suggested before: "Fuel pump is easy to check, disconnect a delivery pipe from a carb and direct it into a container. With the ignition on it should deliver at least one Imperial pint per minute, and in practice closer to two, in a steady stream of pulses with minimal bubbling. That's the spec for an SU pump, but if an after-market doesn't deliver at least that it isn't up to the job." PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > 4. I have a relatively small sized fuel filter before the carbs, small as > in the body..so could that be creating a restriction of fuel flow to the > carbs when the demand for fuel increases? > > I am suspecting fuel pumps which is not and SU is the problem? From thgun at comporium.net Thu Aug 19 08:11:46 2010 From: thgun at comporium.net (thgun at comporium.net) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] Smiths temp/oil gauge Message-ID: <20100819101146.EVC35954@ms1.comporium.net> I have a new gauge and the temp seems to be reading too high. I checked it with a tester from work. Ca I calibrate it? Tom 1957 , 1500 MGA rst. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Aug 19 09:12:56 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:12:56 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Smiths temp/oil gauge References: <20100819101146.EVC35954@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: <52C041CD8C914E7D9FAD109A43684200@paul> No. If it really is reading too high, then it is faulty, take it back. I suppose you could remove the bezel and glass, prise off the needle, and replace at the correct position, but if you cock it up it's a lot of money wasted. Where did you position the other tester, and what did it and the new gauge say? PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- >I have a new gauge and the temp seems to be reading too high. I checked it >with a tester from work. Ca I calibrate it? From richard.ewald at gmail.com Thu Aug 19 10:01:16 2010 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 09:01:16 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Smiths temp/oil gauge In-Reply-To: <20100819101146.EVC35954@ms1.comporium.net> References: <20100819101146.EVC35954@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: Checked it with a tester from work? I have to ask, what kind of tester? I have always just used a pan of boiling water which is a known temp. I have never thought of referring to that as a tester however. Rick PS I agree with Paul, if it is in fact reading high send it back. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:11 AM, wrote: > I have a new gauge and the temp seems to be reading too high. I checked it > with a tester from work. Ca I calibrate it? > Tom > 1957 , 1500 MGA rst. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com From don at napanet.net Thu Aug 19 15:27:15 2010 From: don at napanet.net (don) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:27:15 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Mk 2- $30,250 Message-ID: <20100819212754.F3305AE65E@mail.dsl.napanet.net> An iris blue MGA Mk 2 sold at RM Auction in Monterey for $30,250 last weekend. (Aren't those Magnette hubcaps on it?) It still astounds me to see humble MGs trade for this kind of money. A similar car ('62 Mk 2 red), but restored to what looks to an even higher standard was sold privately by a fellow in Oregon a few months ago, and he said he got close to $30,000 for it. Iris blue MGA: http://www.rmauctions.com/featurecars.cfm?SaleCode=MO10CarID=r297fc=0&CarID=r236&fc=0# red MGA appears near bottom of page: http://www.ubscc.org/classified_ads.htm Don Scott Calistoga CA USA 1962 MGA Mk 2 1973 MGB GT (selling) 1965 MGB (seeking) 1966 TR4A Misc. Japanese cars From rocknatural at gmail.com Thu Aug 19 18:02:22 2010 From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:02:22 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Burned Victor Message-ID: <4C6DC60E.5060809@gmail.com> Turned the ignition key last Friday and the MG ignited. Big burst of flame from under the car, fire everywhere, grass on fire all around the car. Need to find another name for that damned key. All restricted to the engine compartment, no damage to the body. Hoses, wires, fuel pump, battery all melted. Carbs ruined. I suspect radiator damage too. Full coverage will fix it, but still a traumatic experience. -Rocky Frisco -- From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 19 18:52:45 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:52:45 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Burned Victor In-Reply-To: <4C6DC60E.5060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: Holy Incendiaries, Batman! You haven't made any enemies in the mob, have you? Glad it's not a total loss, and that you're all right. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires (at least when my starter burned up it didn't ignite any fuel) on 8/19/10 5:02 PM, The Roxter at rocknatural at gmail.com wrote: > Turned the ignition key last Friday and the MG ignited. Big burst of > flame from under the car, fire everywhere, grass on fire all around the > car. > > Need to find another name for that damned key. > > All restricted to the engine compartment, no damage to the body. Hoses, > wires, fuel pump, battery all melted. Carbs ruined. I suspect radiator > damage too. > > Full coverage will fix it, but still a traumatic experience. > > -Rocky Frisco > -- From mg_garage at comcast.net Thu Aug 19 19:05:40 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 21:05:40 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Burned Victor In-Reply-To: <4C6DC60E.5060809@gmail.com> References: <4C6DC60E.5060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C6DD4E4.1000804@comcast.net> LOL I'm sorry for your troubles, I really am, but that is damned funny. Gordie The Roxter wrote: > Turned the ignition key last Friday and the MG ignited. Big burst of > flame from under the car, fire everywhere, grass on fire all around > the car. > > *Need to find another name for that damned key. * > > All restricted to the engine compartment, no damage to the body. > Hoses, wires, fuel pump, battery all melted. Carbs ruined. I suspect > radiator damage too. > > Full coverage will fix it, but still a traumatic experience. > > -Rocky Frisco > -- > __ From ccrobins at ktc.com Thu Aug 19 21:54:45 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:54:45 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation In-Reply-To: <001c01cb3eee$b159ebf0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6AB4F9.7030004@ktc.com> <001c01cb3eee$b159ebf0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Message-ID: <4C6DFC85.3070108@ktc.com> Did this "professional" balance the air flow through the carbs at idle with the interconnecting linkage slackened off? That's what is meant by balancing. I've never seen it done right without an air flow meter. Now I'll catch it from all those who aver that they "don't need no stinkin' gauge." Flame suit on....... :-) CR On 8/18/2010 11:02 AM, Malcolm Jeffcock wrote: > > I think I have ruled that out as the carbs were set up > "professionally" that is to say I didn't have a chance to mess them up > ;-) > > > > Malcolm > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley & Peggy Robinson" > > To: "Malcolm Jeffcock" > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 1:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] hesitation > > >> >> I had the problem you describe when I got a rebuilt engine running with >> twin SUs.. Turned out, after I bought and used a Unisyn gauge, that the >> carbs were way out of balance; I.E.: it was essentially running on one >> carb at part throttle. If you have twin carbs you might want to check >> this out. >> >> CR >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3077 - Release Date: > 08/17/10 06:35:00 From barneymg at mgaguru.com Fri Aug 20 02:08:28 2010 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 03:08:28 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Burned Victor In-Reply-To: <4C6DC60E.5060809@gmail.com> References: <4C6DC60E.5060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <285771.7990.qm@smtp110.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm the practical type. I want to know how it happened, so someone might avoid it in the future. For a fire like that you need fuel, a fair amount of it loose where it should not be. Something like a loose or burst fuel line, so when you switch it on and wait a few seconds to the carbs to fill, the electric fuel pump might dump out some fuel before you crank it to start. Even then you need an ignition source in the vacinity of the loose fuel. Car engines and electrical parts do not normally make external sparks, but an open exhaust up front might do it. Probably never know now, after the fact, but it may beg for a close inspection anyway. Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude http://MGAguru.com ---------------------------------------- At 07:02 PM 8/19/2010 -0500, Rocky Frisco (The Roxter) wrote: >Turned the ignition key last Friday and the MG ignited. Big burst of >flame from under the car, fire everywhere, grass on fire all around the car. >.... >All restricted to the engine compartment, no damage to the body. >Hoses, wires, fuel pump, battery all melted. Carbs ruined. I suspect >radiator damage too. >.... From ptrmgb at gmail.com Fri Aug 20 05:44:22 2010 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 06:44:22 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Burned Victor In-Reply-To: <4C6DC60E.5060809@gmail.com> References: <4C6DC60E.5060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5DC6924A-C13E-4F30-A211-D01D5B4578E1@gmail.com> That's terrible. I so sorry to hear that Rocky. I'm hope that you are unscathed. On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:02 PM, The Roxter wrote: > Turned the ignition key last Friday and the MG ignited. Big burst of flame from under the car, fire everywhere, grass on fire all around the car. > > Need to find another name for that damned key. > > All restricted to the engine compartment, no damage to the body. Hoses, wires, fuel pump, battery all melted. Carbs ruined. I suspect radiator damage too. > > Full coverage will fix it, but still a traumatic experience. > > -Rocky Frisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From paul at ece.rochester.edu Fri Aug 20 06:12:34 2010 From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:12:34 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MG Hubs Needed-- Help Message-ID: HI, I am looking for a set of MGB rear tube axle hubs, or an old axle in any condition. needed for project car. Any one out there with parts? thank you -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul at ece.rochester.edu From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Fri Aug 20 06:17:29 2010 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 05:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Burned Victor In-Reply-To: <4C6DC60E.5060809@gmail.com> References: <4C6DC60E.5060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <148063.4229.qm@web50906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Glad you're ok, Rock.... I'm thinking the car was jealous of you playing so much recently and was wanting a little attention...! Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: The Roxter To: mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 8:02:22 PM Subject: [Mgs] Burned Victor Turned the ignition key last Friday and the MG ignited. Big burst of flame from under the car, fire everywhere, grass on fire all around the car. Need to find another name for that damned key. All restricted to the engine compartment, no damage to the body. Hoses, wires, fuel pump, battery all melted. Carbs ruined. I suspect radiator damage too. Full coverage will fix it, but still a traumatic experience. -Rocky Frisco -- _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From james.f.juhas at snet.net Fri Aug 20 08:39:31 2010 From: james.f.juhas at snet.net (James F Juhas) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:39:31 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation In-Reply-To: <4C6DFC85.3070108@ktc.com> References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6AB4F9.7030004@ktc.com> <001c01cb3eee$b159ebf0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6DFC85.3070108@ktc.com> Message-ID: <4C6E93A3.7050004@snet.net> No flame from me, even though I now have a gauge, but for years I relied on a length of hose held at the carb throat, the other end at my ear. Still need to disconnect the linkage, though. I, too, have been victim of the "professionally tuned" car that I acquired with the carbs so unbalanced and mal-adjusted so as to only be running on one. Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: > Did this "professional" balance the air flow through the carbs at > idle with the interconnecting linkage slackened off? That's what is > meant by balancing. I've never seen it done right without an air flow > meter. > > Now I'll catch it from all those who aver that they "don't need no > stinkin' gauge." Flame suit on....... :-) > > CR > > > On 8/18/2010 11:02 AM, Malcolm Jeffcock wrote: >> >> I think I have ruled that out as the carbs were set up >> "professionally" that is to say I didn't have a chance to mess them >> up ;-) >> >> >> >> Malcolm >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley & Peggy Robinson" >> >> To: "Malcolm Jeffcock" >> Cc: >> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 1:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] hesitation >> >> >>> >>> I had the problem you describe when I got a rebuilt engine running with >>> twin SUs.. Turned out, after I bought and used a Unisyn gauge, that the >>> carbs were way out of balance; I.E.: it was essentially running on >>> one >>> carb at part throttle. If you have twin carbs you might want to check >>> this out. >>> >>> CR >>> >>> -- [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of james_f_juhas.vcf] From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Fri Aug 20 08:53:11 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:53:11 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] MG Hubs Needed-- Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D8ED@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> What type of axle - banjo or Salisbury? And what type of hub - wire wheel or disc? I have some parts for the banjo axle in the bottom of this picture: http://www.karamursel.org/mg/PB080002A.jpg A bit rusty but useable left from the dpo who was converting my 64B from disc to wire wheel and had already completed the front. Since I was able to find some original disc wheels, I converted the front back to disc hubs. I might have parts for the Salisbury axle that my son disassembled for his high school automotive class several years ago, disc wheels. It was a spare axle (72 B) that I got back in pieces. But it went to some good. You could specify what you are looking for by using the Moss diagrams, her is the later tube type: http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29021 And the banjo: http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29021 David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Paul Osborne Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:13 AM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] MG Hubs Needed-- Help HI, I am looking for a set of MGB rear tube axle hubs, or an old axle in any condition. needed for project car. Any one out there with parts? thank you -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul at ece.rochester.edu From msjeffcock at eastlink.ca Fri Aug 20 09:12:39 2010 From: msjeffcock at eastlink.ca (Malcolm Jeffcock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:12:39 -0300 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6AB4F9.7030004@ktc.com> <001c01cb3eee$b159ebf0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6DFC85.3070108@ktc.com> Message-ID: <02aa01cb407a$21522350$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> An update: first the professional who tuned them is just that, not a "professional". I have no doubt in the quality of his work and and sure that their are many who sing his praise regarding the quality of his work on British cars. I replaced the fuel filter, the one in line before the carbs situate on the inner fender area. This one has a clear plastic chamber and I notice that the entire chamber is not filing as I would expect to see. I have ordered a new fuel pump based on a number of observations including the fact this little after market has been on the car about 7 years and I have had the hesitation with both points and electronic and it always seams to be after a period of steady delivery at about 3-3200 RPM...we shall see. Thanks for all the input, Malcolm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley & Peggy Robinson" To: "Malcolm Jeffcock" Cc: Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:54 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] hesitation > Did this "professional" balance the air flow through the carbs at > idle with the interconnecting linkage slackened off? That's what is > meant by balancing. I've never seen it done right without an air flow > meter. > > Now I'll catch it from all those who aver that they "don't need no > stinkin' gauge." Flame suit on....... :-) > > CR > > > On 8/18/2010 11:02 AM, Malcolm Jeffcock wrote: >> >> I think I have ruled that out as the carbs were set up >> "professionally" that is to say I didn't have a chance to mess them up >> ;-) >> >> >> >> Malcolm >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley & Peggy Robinson" >> >> To: "Malcolm Jeffcock" >> Cc: >> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 1:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] hesitation >> >> >>> >>> I had the problem you describe when I got a rebuilt engine running with >>> twin SUs.. Turned out, after I bought and used a Unisyn gauge, that the >>> carbs were way out of balance; I.E.: it was essentially running on one >>> carb at part throttle. If you have twin carbs you might want to check >>> this out. >>> >>> CR >>> >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3077 - Release Date: >> 08/17/10 06:35:00 >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3081 - Release Date: 08/19/10 06:35:00 From mjanacek at snet.net Fri Aug 20 11:11:46 2010 From: mjanacek at snet.net (Mike Janacek) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 13:11:46 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation In-Reply-To: <4C6E93A3.7050004@snet.net> References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6AB4F9.7030004@ktc.com> <001c01cb3eee$b159ebf0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6DFC85.3070108@ktc.com> <4C6E93A3.7050004@snet.net> Message-ID: <4C6EB752.2040208@snet.net> No flame from me either. Not for accurate syncing but as a quick check you can unscrew the dampener caps, leaving them in, and raising the engine speed above idle. Both should rise. My 44 year SU mechanic showed me this a few years ago. Screw them back in when done. Mike James F Juhas wrote: > No flame from me, even though I now have a gauge, but for years I relied > on a length of hose held at the carb throat, the other end at my ear. > Still need to disconnect the linkage, though. I, too, have been victim > of the "professionally tuned" car that I acquired with the carbs so > unbalanced and mal-adjusted so as to only be running on one. From mjanacek at snet.net Fri Aug 20 17:43:16 2010 From: mjanacek at snet.net (Mike Janacek) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 19:43:16 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] V8 Hotel Message-ID: <4C6F1314.9050902@snet.net> Check out this Morris Minor. This is the way to sleep! http://v8hotel.de/en/rooms/theme-based-rooms/werkstatt.html Mike From lundgren at byu.net Fri Aug 20 21:01:25 2010 From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:01:25 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? Message-ID: <4C6F4185.7050606@byu.net> Anyone have any experience with radiator repair they would like to share? I have never done it, I think you need to pressurize the radiator to 15lbs or so find the leaks then patch all the leaks by soldering them. Wash and repeat until they are all gone. A new replacement for my '70 from Moss runs ~$200. If I have to take the rad anywhere to have it repaired, I am guessing that the labor at todays prices will go up toward the replacement cost pretty quick. Do they still re-core radiators? I may be able to do it myself, I remember helping my father do it as a kid, but have never done it myself. I remember him fighting for quite a while with a few stubborn leaks on the old International Travelall. My dad is still around and would probably be willing to help me repair it. Anyone have any tips/suggestions? Thanks! -- Andrew Lundgren lundgren at byu.net From chillmog at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 20 22:57:36 2010 From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:57:36 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <4C6F4185.7050606@byu.net> References: <4C6F4185.7050606@byu.net> Message-ID: <4C6F5CC0.2070204@sbcglobal.net> Andrew, A new radiator is the best solution. Your radiator, if it is the original is 40 years old. Even if you fix the leak, who know what it like inside. And soldering a leaking radiator is not as easy as it might seem. BTDT when I was younger and perpetually broke. Solder up a leak and the heat from fixing that leak will melt the solder and create another leak somewhere else. If you have plenty of time on your hands, you can eventually get it done. Another alternative is trying a local radiator shop. Fixing a leak shouldn't be that expensive. Regards, Charles Hill Andrew B. Lundgren wrote: > Anyone have any experience with radiator repair they would like to > share? > > I have never done it, I think you need to pressurize the radiator to > 15lbs or so find the leaks then patch all the leaks by soldering > them. Wash and repeat until they are all gone. > > A new replacement for my '70 from Moss runs ~$200. > > If I have to take the rad anywhere to have it repaired, I am guessing > that the labor at todays prices will go up toward the replacement cost > pretty quick. Do they still re-core radiators? > > I may be able to do it myself, I remember helping my father do it as a > kid, but have never done it myself. I remember him fighting for quite > a while with a few stubborn leaks on the old International Travelall. > My dad is still around and would probably be willing to help me repair > it. > > Anyone have any tips/suggestions? > > Thanks! > > -- > Andrew Lundgren > lundgren at byu.net From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Aug 21 03:18:52 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:18:52 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] hesitation References: <053f01cb3ce2$726e7c70$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91><05a901cb3d7c$e85932f0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6AB4F9.7030004@ktc.com><001c01cb3eee$b159ebf0$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> <4C6DFC85.3070108@ktc.com> <02aa01cb407a$21522350$6501a8c0@D95Y3D91> Message-ID: <7412C5F0772E444AB3FA812E1117E6A5@paul> You can't take any notice of that, filters can be anywhere from completely full to almost completely empty and have no effect on running. Have you done a fuel delivery check yet? Replacing the fuel pump without confirming it is faulty is an expensive way of diagnosing a problem. If you have had the hesitation with at least two different pumps, if not three, what makes you think a fourth pump is going to be any different? PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > I replaced the fuel filter, the one in line before the carbs situate on > the inner fender area. This one has a clear plastic chamber and I notice > that the entire chamber is not filing as I would expect to see. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Aug 21 03:31:03 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:31:03 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? References: <4C6F4185.7050606@byu.net> Message-ID: <7485C3CBCBCB4D218F50D066E71A67AB@paul> My radiator had split in the soldered join between the header tank and the body. Couldn't have been easier to dig out the solder, clean up and resolder. But after it went for the third time I opted for a rebuilt unit. You need to pressurise to more that 15lb, if that is the pressure of your cap. If you have more than one or two pinholes there could be any number just waiting to go after you put it back. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Anyone have any experience with radiator repair they would like to share? From paul at ece.rochester.edu Sat Aug 21 05:10:34 2010 From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 07:10:34 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <4C6F4185.7050606@byu.net> References: <4C6F4185.7050606@byu.net> Message-ID: Andrew, most radiator shops will recore your's, and it will be a savings. Have had my 74 gt done 2yrs ago. Cost $138.00. paul > Anyone have any experience with radiator repair they would like to share? > >I have never done it, I think you need to pressurize the radiator to >15lbs or so find the leaks then patch all the leaks by soldering >them. Wash and repeat until they are all gone. > >A new replacement for my '70 from Moss runs ~$200. > >If I have to take the rad anywhere to have it repaired, I am >guessing that the labor at todays prices will go up toward the >replacement cost pretty quick. Do they still re-core radiators? > >I may be able to do it myself, I remember helping my father do it as >a kid, but have never done it myself. I remember him fighting for >quite a while with a few stubborn leaks on the old International >Travelall. My dad is still around and would probably be willing to >help me repair it. > >Anyone have any tips/suggestions? > >Thanks! > >-- >Andrew Lundgren >lundgren at byu.net >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paul at ece.rochester.edu -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul at ece.rochester.edu From richard.ewald at gmail.com Sat Aug 21 07:36:07 2010 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 06:36:07 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6F4185.7050606@byu.net> Message-ID: <259D991C-93EA-42D5-B755-5D778B463F1E@gmail.com> Unless excess money Laying all over your work bench is an issue I would not buy a new rad from Moss. I would also not necessarily automatically recore yours. I sure as well would not do the repair myself. (been there done that. Too hard to get a good result) I would remove the rad, take it to a good shop and ask them for a rod and repair. They will remove both tanks run a long rod down each tube to clean out all the crud then reassemble the entire unit. If the core is bad they can show you and replace it. Much cheaper than Moss Sent from my iPhone On Aug 21, 2010, at 4:10, Paul Osborne wrote: > Andrew, most radiator shops will recore your's, and it will be a savings. Have had my 74 gt done 2yrs ago. Cost $138.00. > > paul > > >> Anyone have any experience with radiator repair they would like to share? >> >> I have never done it, I think you need to pressurize the radiator to 15lbs or so find the leaks then patch all the leaks by soldering them. Wash and repeat until they are all gone. >> >> A new replacement for my '70 from Moss runs ~$200. >> >> If I have to take the rad anywhere to have it repaired, I am guessing that the labor at todays prices will go up toward the replacement cost pretty quick. Do they still re-core radiators? >> >> I may be able to do it myself, I remember helping my father do it as a kid, but have never done it myself. I remember him fighting for quite a while with a few stubborn leaks on the old International Travelall. My dad is still around and would probably be willing to help me repair it. >> >> Anyone have any tips/suggestions? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> Andrew Lundgren >> lundgren at byu.net >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paul at ece.rochester.edu > > > -- > Paul Osborne > University of Rochester > Engineering & Technical Services > Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus > Rochester, New York 14627 > 585-275-5226 > paul at ece.rochester.edu > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com From v.navarrette at comcast.net Sat Aug 21 10:37:53 2010 From: v.navarrette at comcast.net (Vance Navarrette) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 09:37:53 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <4C6F4185.7050606@byu.net> Message-ID: Pull the radiator and take it to a radiator shop. They will flush it, patch it and paint it for about half the cost of new in my experience. You save the cost of pulling and reinstalling the radiator which makes it a reasonable deal, AND you get to keep the original radiator that came with the car. Vance -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Andrew B. Lundgren Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:01 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? Anyone have any experience with radiator repair they would like to share? Anyone have any tips/suggestions? Thanks! -- Andrew Lundgren From atweditor at aol.com Sat Aug 21 11:50:51 2010 From: atweditor at aol.com (atweditor at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 13:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD0F70871EBC8C-26A0-13B60@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> I never had any temperature problems with my radiator, which may have been the original, but it started to leak badly. I took it around to several places looking for a recore, but only one place would consider it, and they wanted a huge amount of money (I'm in the Maryland suburbs of DC). So I bought a new one from Moss and it looks just fine, but now my temp gauge rides just under the "H", where as before it was just over the midpoint. And, yes, I did flush the system. Jay Donoghue 72 B-GT 66 Mustang -----Original Message----- From: Vance Navarrette To: 'Andrew B. Lundgren' ; mgs Sent: Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:20 pm Subject: Re: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? Pull the radiator and take it to a radiator shop. They will flush it, patch it and paint it for about half the cost of new in my experience. You save the cost of pulling and reinstalling the radiator which makes it a reasonable deal, AND you get to keep the original radiator that came with the car. Vance -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Andrew B. Lundgren Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:01 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? Anyone have any experience with radiator repair they would like to share? Anyone have any tips/suggestions? Thanks! -- Andrew Lundgren _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/atweditor at aol.com From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Sat Aug 21 13:12:00 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 13:12:00 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <8CD0F70871EBC8C-26A0-13B60@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD0F70871EBC8C-26A0-13B60@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C94F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> I usually have a radiator shop repair mine as well at about half the cost of new. But I had to replace the one on my 67BGT a few years ago with a new one from Moss or a Moss reseller. Mine also runs a bit hotter than the original one did. With the original one, coolant temps usually ran right at or slightly below the thermostat rating, 190 F, but now it usually runs 195-200 F even in cooler weather. Several other people have also mentioned that their new radiators have been running a bit hotter. But other than the slightly higher temps it hasn't been a problem as the temp stays stable. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of atweditor at aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:51 AM To: v.navarrette at comcast.net; lundgren at byu.net; mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? I never had any temperature problems with my radiator, which may have been the original, but it started to leak badly. I took it around to several places looking for a recore, but only one place would consider it, and they wanted a huge amount of money (I'm in the Maryland suburbs of DC). So I bought a new one from Moss and it looks just fine, but now my temp gauge rides just under the "H", where as before it was just over the midpoint. And, yes, I did flush the system. Jay Donoghue 72 B-GT 66 Mustang From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Sat Aug 21 13:34:22 2010 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:34:22 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] V8 Hotel References: <4C6F1314.9050902@snet.net> Message-ID: <8B4312778B7141069FFB1D07084C2C23@uw471de61b465c> Great! I'll try this when I need to go overthere in Germany. Cheers, Hans 71 BGT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Janacek" To: "MG-BBS" ; Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 1:43 AM Subject: [Mgs] V8 Hotel > Check out this Morris Minor. This is the way to sleep! > http://v8hotel.de/en/rooms/theme-based-rooms/werkstatt.html > Mike > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Sat Aug 21 14:31:24 2010 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 13:31:24 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6F4185.7050606@byu.net> Message-ID: I have done both. Fairly shortly after I bought my MGA, the radiator started leaking. I took it to a shop, paid to have it fixed, saved a lot over the cost of a new radiator. But ...... Then it started leaking again, so I bought a new one. The new radiator has been on the car for a long time now. Had I continued to have the radiator repaired again, I think I would have ended up paying more on repairs over the expected life of my new radiator. Simon On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Vance Navarrette wrote: > Pull the radiator and take it to a radiator shop. > > They will flush it, patch it and paint it for about half the > cost of new in my experience. > > You save the cost of pulling and reinstalling the radiator which > makes it a reasonable deal, AND you get to keep the original radiator > that came with the car. > > Vance From thgun at comporium.net Sat Aug 21 19:13:48 2010 From: thgun at comporium.net (Tom Gunderson) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:13:48 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] While talking we are radiators Message-ID: <869097262893474A9D77AF99715247BB@TOMPC> I have removed mine so I can replace the water pump. Should I paint the pump and what color should it be? Also what color should the fan blades be painted? New hoses and clamps will be put back on too. The water pump gasket is very thin. Should I use sealer? Tom Gunderson , 1957 MGA , 1500 rst From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Aug 22 04:29:53 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:29:53 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] While talking we are radiators References: <869097262893474A9D77AF99715247BB@TOMPC> Message-ID: <9D91D8724DB1416F90D3C0C24C187314@paul> Paint it what ever colour turns you on :o) The were usually engine colour for obvious reasons (sprayed with the parts covering passages into the engine in place), the blades were yellow presumably for visibility, not that you can see much of the colour when they are spinning. I would use a non-setting gasket compound such as Hermetite Red, and only a smear. I never use silicone sealants, whilst some take some time to go off some do so very quickly and if you are doing a large gasket the first part you did is semi-hard and the last part soft. If you *do* use silicone again only use a smear, not the thick bead often shown, or when you tighten the bolts great gobbets will ooze out everywhere. Messy outside the pump, not a good idea inside. I took some carbs off a while back and the throat area had been reduced by about a quarter by excess silicone. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- >I have removed mine so I can replace the water pump. Should I paint the >pump > and what color should it be? Also what color should the fan blades be > painted? > New hoses and clamps will be put back on too. The water pump gasket is > very > thin. Should I use sealer? From atweditor at aol.com Sun Aug 22 10:15:19 2010 From: atweditor at aol.com (atweditor at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 12:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] Free MGB engine In-Reply-To: <869097262893474A9D77AF99715247BB@TOMPC> References: <869097262893474A9D77AF99715247BB@TOMPC> Message-ID: <8CD102C595899C6-1AB8-482BE@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Folks, I've begun clearing out my house in preparation for selling it next year, and I need to get rid of an engine I picked up about 15 years ago. The serial number of 18GD-WE-H 22534. It was in the garage of the owner of the MGB roadster I bought at that time, that I later sold after I got my GT. He said he didn't know about its condition, so I certainly don't, although there is nothing about its appearance that is wrong. When I got it, I filled the cylinders with oil and put the plugs back in, and blocked the air rack holes, the rack being gone. Nearly everything else is, including both carbs, distributor, oil filter, etc. Ii took a few minor parts off over the years, but nothing major. It has been stored in my garage the whole time I've had it. If anyone wants it you'll need to come and get it. I ain't shipping this lump. I live in Silver Spring, MD. Send me an email and we can communicate by phone about details.. Jay Donoghue 72 MGB-GT 66 Mustang From atweditor at aol.com Sun Aug 22 13:35:40 2010 From: atweditor at aol.com (atweditor at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 15:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] Free MGB engine Message-ID: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> I don't my own copy very well. I meant to say that nearly everything else associated with the engine IS still there. Quite complete. Jay Donoghue From thgun at comporium.net Sun Aug 22 18:03:32 2010 From: thgun at comporium.net (Tom Gunderson) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:03:32 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGA FAN BELT Message-ID: <0C3FEF1BCE144A9B852E8A74D6AAFEF9@TOMPC> Can some one tell me the makers of the fan belt that will fit an MGA 1500? I have a Fennor belt. I am wondering if it may be too small for my engine. Tom Gunderson 1957, 1500 MGA rst From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 23 01:43:48 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:43:48 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MGA FAN BELT References: <0C3FEF1BCE144A9B852E8A74D6AAFEF9@TOMPC> Message-ID: Any number, I'd have said. It is the length that is important of course, most manufacturers make many different lengths, and the length is usually contained within the part number and painted on the belt. After breaking a belt on a car I had recently bought and having hell's own game to get the right one (there being about half a dozen for that engine at various times) I've since always kept a spare for each car I've had, and done a trial fit first. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Can some one tell me the makers of the fan belt that will fit an MGA 1500? From eric at erickson.on.net Mon Aug 23 04:03:25 2010 From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric Erickson) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:33:25 +0930 Subject: [Mgs] Racing Videos In-Reply-To: References: <0C3FEF1BCE144A9B852E8A74D6AAFEF9@TOMPC> Message-ID: <7F58E0D7-8FDB-40A7-9B62-7DF487516AA0@erickson.on.net> Some recently uploaded videos. Firsty, this weekend I took hundreds of photos of a great race meeting, but right at the end of the Sunday I set myself up to get some shots of the MGF guys doing their thing. A little incident actually caught me by surprise but I managed to capture a few frames of the O'Malley's battling to the finish line (and put them into a little slideshow for you - with no annoying background music). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvGHrfQxOY8 Next are two in-car video's from Bill Schapel's MGTC racing at Phillip Island and Winton Raceway here in Australia. Winton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4N846mKg44 Phillip Island: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyb_Ol8tZS0 Enjoy. Eric From wilkmanracing at aol.com Mon Aug 23 10:35:22 2010 From: wilkmanracing at aol.com (wilkmanracing at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:35:22 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Four Cylinder Club of America History Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD10F850B31308-1FF4-1D03@Webmail-d102.sysops.aol.com> I have undertaken the task of chronicling the history of the Four Cylinder Club of America. Some of the older members of this list may recall this club. Founded ca. 1949-1950, it was the largest non-racing sports car club in the United States, at least in the 1950s and 1960s. To display and provide a forum for the documentation of its history, I have developed the following web site: www.fourcylinderclubhistory.com I have only scratched the surface of the materials I have and I continue to post new items every week. I think most of the folks on this list will enjoy this trip down memory lane. There are lots of photographs of MGs from the era. If anyone on the list has any historical materials related to the club, I would greatly appreciate hearing from you. Bill Wilkman Riverside, CA From ccrobins at ktc.com Tue Aug 24 06:53:24 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 07:53:24 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C94F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <8CD0F70871EBC8C-26A0-13B60@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C94F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <4C73C0C3.5080708@ktc.com> I had a '70 B when I lived in the desert. It ran a bit warm after I rebuilt the engine. When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. Wouldn't surprise me if your after market rad has a bit lower cooling capacity then the original. CR On 8/21/2010 2:12 PM, Councill, David wrote: > I usually have a radiator shop repair mine as well at about half the > cost of new. But I had to replace the one on my 67BGT a few years ago > with a new one from Moss or a Moss reseller. Mine also runs a bit hotter > than the original one did. From ccrobins at ktc.com Tue Aug 24 07:16:31 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:16:31 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> Here's a little trouble-shooting exercise for ya, gang. I got my '69 B out of the garage after it had been sitting undriven for several months.Backed her out, hit the brakes and the pedal went to the metal! Wound up on the grass next to my driveway, fortunately an uphill slope. So I look in the master cylinder and the front chamber is almost dry - my bad, should have kept it topped up. So I fill it with Dot 4, do a little bleeding and get a nice firm pedal with no leaking down. Drove the car a few times in the cool of the morning with no problem. Couple days later I'm pulling slowly into my garage, got to stop and the brake pedal goes to the metal! I almost yanked the handbrake lever off the floor! So after I changed shorts, I looked in the master and it was still full. Hopped in the car and tried the brakes again and they worked fine with a firm pedal. Brake lights work too and there are no discernible leaks. I think I know what's wrong. What's your take? CR From lundgren at byu.net Tue Aug 24 08:25:14 2010 From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:25:14 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> Message-ID: <4C73D64A.6050905@byu.net> You have a slow leak some place. Last week I had to replace a frozen front caliper. One piston was frozen out and it was leaking very slowly internally behind the piston. I didn't catch it in time and ruined a disk. I got the car in '96; as of last week the remaining pads were still only about half gone. I now have new pads, rotors and one rebuilt caliper it breaks just like it did before the failure. (I was hoping for some new stopping power as the old breaks were probably 20+ years old.) My dad taught me to pump the breaks when they don't work the first time. I am very thankful for that as it is a horrible feeling when the pedal goes all the way down. On 08/24/2010 07:16 AM, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: > Here's a little trouble-shooting exercise for ya, gang. I got my '69 > B out of the garage after it had been sitting undriven for several > months.Backed her out, hit the brakes and the pedal went to the > metal! Wound up on the grass next to my driveway, fortunately an > uphill slope. So I look in the master cylinder and the front chamber > is almost dry - my bad, should have kept it topped up. So I fill it > with Dot 4, do a little bleeding and get a nice firm pedal with no > leaking down. Drove the car a few times in the cool of the morning > with no problem. > > Couple days later I'm pulling slowly into my garage, got to stop and > the brake pedal goes to the metal! I almost yanked the handbrake > lever off the floor! So after I changed shorts, I looked in the > master and it was still full. Hopped in the car and tried the brakes > again and they worked fine with a firm pedal. Brake lights work too > and there are no discernible leaks. > > I think I know what's wrong. What's your take? From mgbob at juno.com Tue Aug 24 08:37:24 2010 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:37:24 GMT Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? Message-ID: <20100824.103724.1951.1@webmail02.vgs.untd.com> A plausible explanation is that, over the months when parked, the MC lost whatever fluid had been in it and rust developed in the cylinder. When you topped it up, the MC worked well enough initially, but the rust chewed away the cups and now they cannot consistently make the pressure needed for the brakes. The brake-light clue would be puzzling in earlier cars, but as the switch in '69 is activated by pedal motion, not by hydraulic pressure, it does not matter. What is interesting, though, is that yours is a two-section MC. One would expect that either front or rear brakes would have worked. R&R of the MC is not difficult (have a 12" extension and 7/16 sockets for the under-dash nuts), though rebuilding of this MC is not something I have successfully accomplished. What do you think? Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Charley & Peggy Robinson To: Undisclosed-recipients:; Cc: Mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:16:31 -0500 Here's a little trouble-shooting exercise for ya, gang. I got my '69 B out of the garage after it had been sitting undriven for several months.Backed her out, hit the brakes and the pedal went to the metal! Wound up on the grass next to my driveway, fortunately an uphill slope. So I look in the master cylinder and the front chamber is almost dry - my bad, should have kept it topped up. So I fill it with Dot 4, do a little bleeding and get a nice firm pedal with no leaking down. Drove the car a few times in the cool of the morning with no problem. Couple days later I'm pulling slowly into my garage, got to stop and the brake pedal goes to the metal! I almost yanked the handbrake lever off the floor! So after I changed shorts, I looked in the master and it was still full. Hopped in the car and tried the brakes again and they worked fine with a firm pedal. Brake lights work too and there are no discernible leaks. I think I know what's wrong. What's your take? CR _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 24 08:35:36 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:35:36 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> Message-ID: <4889B4F007B54EEB80A78D8D51F4C029@paul> The whole point of dual circuit brakes is that if one circuit fails the other should give some stopping ability. According to the books the rear reservoir supplies the front brakes, and the front reservoir the rear. So with the apparent loss of the rear brakes *only* you should hardly have noticed any difference, which implies you lost the fronts, in not both. The second symptom of loss of a circuit is a longer pedal, but not so long it hits the firewall (or what would be the point?). The only reason master cylinders should need topping up is as the pads and shoes wear, and the pads and pistons gradually move out of their own accord, and you adjust the rear shoes and handbrake which likewise allows the slave pistons to be at rest further out. An empty reservoir implies a major leak, which is one problem, and brake fluid dries, even if it falls in a visible place. On a dual circuit system the brake lights are operated directly from movement of the pedal, which has no bearing on whether operation of the pedal develops hydraulic pressure to apply the brakes or not. It what you are telling us is correct, I'd say the master seal for the front circuit is highly suspect, sometimes sealing and sometimes not, which would be a second problem. That, with an empty rear reservoir, could explain the first 'pedal to the floor', but not the second unless *both* master seals were failing, which would be a third problem. It would be a heck of a coincidence for both to exhibit the same failure mode so close together ... unless the rear circuit isn't working at all and you have been driving for ages on the fronts only. Remember the adage "Just because you have discovered one problem, don't assume you have discovered the only problem". PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > ...Backed her out, hit the brakes and the pedal went to the metal! From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 24 09:06:19 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:06:19 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> <4C73D64A.6050905@byu.net> Message-ID: <01539B2BE99D4DEC92DBA81F4D773570@paul> 'Brakes', please! You don't want your brakes to break at all ... ----- Original Message ----- it breaks just like it did > old breaks were probably 20+ years old.) > > My dad taught me to pump the breaks when they don't work the first From lundgren at byu.net Tue Aug 24 09:29:02 2010 From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:29:02 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <01539B2BE99D4DEC92DBA81F4D773570@paul> References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> <4C73D64A.6050905@byu.net> <01539B2BE99D4DEC92DBA81F4D773570@paul> Message-ID: <4C73E53E.6070605@byu.net> I hate that typo too. :) I know they are brakes, they just sound so much lake breaks! On 08/24/2010 09:06 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > 'Brakes', please! You don't want your brakes to break at all ... > > ----- Original Message ----- it breaks just like it did >> old breaks were probably 20+ years old.) >> >> My dad taught me to pump the breaks when they don't work the first From barrie at look.ca Tue Aug 24 09:21:26 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:21:26 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <4C73C0C3.5080708@ktc.com> References: <8CD0F70871EBC8C-26A0-13B60@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0723C94F@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> <4C73C0C3.5080708@ktc.com> Message-ID: I had lots of heating problems with my MGB GT V8 so heating problems are of great interest to me. Obviously a V8 needs more attention than the 4 cylinder but there are some lessons to be learnt. If it was my MGB that was overheating, after checking the obvious (thermostat, blockages etc) I would rip out the rad and install an aluminium one. My V8 got to normality after I had ceramic coated the exhaust pipes, put in a stonking electric fan, and an aluminium rad. For the 4 cylinder I think only the last item is appropriate. At 08:53 AM 8/24/2010, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: >I had a '70 B when I lived in the desert. It ran a bit warm after I >rebuilt the engine. When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt >with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. Wouldn't >surprise me if your after market rad has a bit lower cooling >capacity then the original. > > CR > >On 8/21/2010 2:12 PM, Councill, David wrote: >>I usually have a radiator shop repair mine as well at about half the >>cost of new. But I had to replace the one on my 67BGT a few years ago >>with a new one from Moss or a Moss reseller. Mine also runs a bit hotter >>than the original one did. >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca Regards Barrie barrie at look.ca 705--721-9060 From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Tue Aug 24 09:58:20 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:58:20 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] 64B on the road Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D912@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Since its kind of a slow day on the list, I thought I'd throw in an update on my 64B project. It had been stored in a garage in Portland, Oregon (NW USA) since 1981. I started working on it about a year ago, spent a lot of time replacing rubber components, redid brakes/clutch, new exhaust, clean and installed gas tank, replace fuel pump, rebuild carbs. I converted it over completely to disc wheels last weekend (previous owner had disc wheels on rear, wire wheels on front as he was converting it to ww). It started right away when the time came and I took it for a couple of short drives. Then a long drive (maybe 10 miles) this weekend, enough to build in some confidence. So today I drove it to work, another milestone. It runs pretty good, granted it is still not totally assembled. I sent the speedo to Nisonger for repair so there is a hole there in the dash there (plus where the radio would have been). The driver side door is just a shell as I am working on renewing the rubber seals there. The one bolt on the wing mirror broke during disassembly as it was heavily rusted (the pivot bolt with the spring). I ordered a replacement from Moss and got the dreaded backorder, first time in a very long time. As far as running, the only problem I have seen is that oil pressure is low. It starts at 60 psi cold but after it warms up, the car runs about 45-48 psi and idles at 10 psi. So I'm overall pretty excited with the old car. I used to have a 65B in college, also with 3 main engine, mechanical tach - overall seems much more primitive than the later 68+ years and with a bit more power. And due to too many classic cars taking up garage space (67BGT, 72B), this car is insured/licensed as a regular vehicle so I plan on using it as a primary driver except during bad weather. That's where the LandRover comes in. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B 74 Toyota Landcruiser 01 LandRover Discovery II From ptrmgb at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 11:26:23 2010 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:26:23 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] 64B on the road In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D912@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D912@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: Sounds great, David! You don't state a color? That means it's not Iris Blue or old English White. I'm going to guess Tartan Red. On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Councill, David wrote: > Since its kind of a slow day on the list, I thought I'd throw in an > update on my 64B project. It had been stored in a garage in Portland, > Oregon (NW USA) since 1981. I started working on it about a year ago, > spent a lot of time replacing rubber components, redid brakes/clutch, > new exhaust, clean and installed gas tank, replace fuel pump, rebuild > carbs. I converted it over completely to disc wheels last weekend > (previous owner had disc wheels on rear, wire wheels on front as he was > converting it to ww). It started right away when the time came and I > took it for a couple of short drives. Then a long drive (maybe 10 miles) > this weekend, enough to build in some confidence. So today I drove it to > work, another milestone. It runs pretty good, granted it is still not > totally assembled. I sent the speedo to Nisonger for repair so there is > a hole there in the dash there (plus where the radio would have been). > The driver side door is just a shell as I am working on renewing the > rubber seals there. The one bolt on the wing mirror broke during > disassembly as it was heavily rusted (the pivot bolt with the spring). I > ordered a replacement from Moss and got the dreaded backorder, first > time in a very long time. > > > > As far as running, the only problem I have seen is that oil pressure is > low. It starts at 60 psi cold but after it warms up, the car runs about > 45-48 psi and idles at 10 psi. So I'm overall pretty excited with the > old car. I used to have a 65B in college, also with 3 main engine, > mechanical tach - overall seems much more primitive than the later 68+ > years and with a bit more power. And due to too many classic cars taking > up garage space (67BGT, 72B), this car is insured/licensed as a regular > vehicle so I plan on using it as a primary driver except during bad > weather. That's where the LandRover comes in. > > > > David Councill > > 64 B > > 67 BGT > > 72 B > > 74 Toyota Landcruiser > > 01 LandRover Discovery II > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 24 11:33:10 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 10:33:10 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yeah, but there are a couple hundred thousand MGBs running around with brass radiators that cool just fine. So an aluminum radiator is essentially just throwing money at the problem. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/24/10 8:21 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: > I had lots of heating problems with my MGB GT V8 so heating problems > are of great interest to me. Obviously a V8 needs more attention > than the 4 cylinder but there are some lessons to be learnt. If it > was my MGB that was overheating, after checking the obvious > (thermostat, blockages etc) I would rip out the rad and install an > aluminium one. My V8 got to normality after I had ceramic coated the > exhaust pipes, put in a stonking electric fan, and an aluminium > rad. For the 4 cylinder I think only the last item is appropriate. > > > > At 08:53 AM 8/24/2010, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: >> I had a '70 B when I lived in the desert. It ran a bit warm after I >> rebuilt the engine. When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt >> with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. Wouldn't >> surprise me if your after market rad has a bit lower cooling >> capacity then the original. >> >> CR From richard.ewald at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 12:25:20 2010 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:25:20 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <4889B4F007B54EEB80A78D8D51F4C029@paul> References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> <4889B4F007B54EEB80A78D8D51F4C029@paul> Message-ID: I suspect that the rear wheel cylinders are leaking explaining the loss of fluid in the master, and the seal for the front brakes is bypassing quite possibly due to corrosion in the master causing the pedal to the floor. Rick On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > The whole point of dual circuit brakes is that if one circuit fails the > other should give some stopping ability. According to the books the rear > reservoir supplies the front brakes, and the front reservoir the rear. So > with the apparent loss of the rear brakes *only* you should hardly have > noticed any difference, which implies you lost the fronts, in not both. The > second symptom of loss of a circuit is a longer pedal, but not so long it > hits the firewall (or what would be the point?). > > The only reason master cylinders should need topping up is as the pads and > shoes wear, and the pads and pistons gradually move out of their own accord, > and you adjust the rear shoes and handbrake which likewise allows the slave > pistons to be at rest further out. An empty reservoir implies a major leak, > which is one problem, and brake fluid dries, even if it falls in a visible > place. > > On a dual circuit system the brake lights are operated directly from > movement of the pedal, which has no bearing on whether operation of the > pedal develops hydraulic pressure to apply the brakes or not. > > It what you are telling us is correct, I'd say the master seal for the front > circuit is highly suspect, sometimes sealing and sometimes not, which would > be a second problem. That, with an empty rear reservoir, could explain the > first 'pedal to the floor', but not the second unless *both* master seals > were failing, which would be a third problem. It would be a heck of a > coincidence for both to exhibit the same failure mode so close together ... > unless the rear circuit isn't working at all and you have been driving for > ages on the fronts only. > > Remember the adage "Just because you have discovered one problem, don't > assume you have discovered the only problem". > > PaulH. From palte at gmx.net Tue Aug 24 12:52:52 2010 From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:52:52 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> Well, I always thought that the prime reason for using aluminium radiators nowadays is the cost, since brass has become very expensive... At 19:33 24-8-2010, you wrote: >Yeah, but there are a couple hundred thousand MGBs running around with brass >radiators that cool just fine. So an aluminum radiator is essentially just >throwing money at the problem. > > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > >on 8/24/10 8:21 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: > > > I had lots of heating problems with my MGB GT V8 so heating problems > > are of great interest to me. Obviously a V8 needs more attention > > than the 4 cylinder but there are some lessons to be learnt. If it > > was my MGB that was overheating, after checking the obvious > > (thermostat, blockages etc) I would rip out the rad and install an > > aluminium one. My V8 got to normality after I had ceramic coated the > > exhaust pipes, put in a stonking electric fan, and an aluminium > > rad. For the 4 cylinder I think only the last item is appropriate. > > > > > > > > At 08:53 AM 8/24/2010, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: > >> I had a '70 B when I lived in the desert. It ran a bit warm after I > >> rebuilt the engine. When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt > >> with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. Wouldn't > >> surprise me if your after market rad has a bit lower cooling > >> capacity then the original. > >> > >> CR From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Tue Aug 24 12:58:01 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:58:01 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] 64B on the road In-Reply-To: References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D912@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D91D@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Was this an educated guess? I hadn't really thought about the color selection back then. My first MGB was an old English white 65 B (with primer surrounding several prominent holes eaten by rust). And this one is tartan red. I had to dig up my pictures when I started the restoration: Picture of the car as I towed it back to Montana: http://www.karamursel.org/mg/64b.jpg And a few webpages where I was tracking the initial restoration: http://www.karamursel.org/mg/64B.htm http://www.karamursel.org/mg/restoration2.htm I guess I should take some more pictures of it in its current running condition. I still have some scuffing on the bonnet due to the previous owner covering it with a tarp that I haven't buffed out. I did replace the grille and the car also now sports four original early year rims and hubcaps (a few have minor pitting so I'll have to get them re-chromed). Both doors need to be completed on the interior. Have to install a new top. Nisonger has just sent my Jaegar speedometer back after repair. So overall, the car still needs a lot more work. Fortunately, it has very little rust in the usual areas. On a related note, my 72B was a more extensive restoration which is mostly complete. Are they ever complete? I decided I better at least get the wipers to work which I did last weekend. So all that's left with it is the heater to look at/fix and some repairs to the hard top. And the overdrive, but its gathering dust in the garage at present. David Councill 64 B tartan red 67 BGT british racing green 72 B black tulip -----Original Message----- From: Paul Root [mailto:ptroot at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Paul Root Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 11:26 AM To: Councill, David Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] 64B on the road Sounds great, David! You don't state a color? That means it's not Iris Blue or old English White. I'm going to guess Tartan Red. From ccrobins at ktc.com Tue Aug 24 13:17:36 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:17:36 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] 64B on the road In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D912@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D912@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <4C741AD0.30503@ktc.com> GOODONYA! Dave. Another one back on the road! Wahooo! CR On 8/24/2010 10:58 AM, Councill, David wrote: > Since its kind of a slow day on the list, I thought I'd throw in an > update on my 64B project. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 24 13:27:32 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:27:32 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <201008241852.o7OIqvUP010916@flpd245.prodigy.net> Message-ID: ??? Never heard that. All the replacement aluminum radiators I see are high performance items, and priced accordingly. New cars may have have aluminum (or plastic) for that reason. My point is that while installing a high performance radiator may indeed reduce the temps, it does so without diagnosing the actual problem. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/24/10 11:52 AM, Bert Palte at palte at gmx.net wrote: > Well, I always thought that the prime reason for using aluminium > radiators nowadays > is the cost, since brass has become very expensive... > > > At 19:33 24-8-2010, you wrote: >> Yeah, but there are a couple hundred thousand MGBs running around with brass >> radiators that cool just fine. So an aluminum radiator is essentially just >> throwing money at the problem. >> >> >> -- >> >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires >> >> >> >> on 8/24/10 8:21 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: >> >>> I had lots of heating problems with my MGB GT V8 so heating problems >>> are of great interest to me. Obviously a V8 needs more attention >>> than the 4 cylinder but there are some lessons to be learnt. If it >>> was my MGB that was overheating, after checking the obvious >>> (thermostat, blockages etc) I would rip out the rad and install an >>> aluminium one. My V8 got to normality after I had ceramic coated the >>> exhaust pipes, put in a stonking electric fan, and an aluminium >>> rad. For the 4 cylinder I think only the last item is appropriate. >>> >>> >>> >>> At 08:53 AM 8/24/2010, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: >>>> I had a '70 B when I lived in the desert. It ran a bit warm after I >>>> rebuilt the engine. When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt >>>> with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. Wouldn't >>>> surprise me if your after market rad has a bit lower cooling >>>> capacity then the original. >>>> >>>> CR From redscirocco at hotmail.com Tue Aug 24 13:50:20 2010 From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:50:20 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> References: , , <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I'm no radiator expert, but I play one on TV, and my understanding is that brass/copper radiators are as much two times more efficient than aluminum radiators. The benefit of an aluminum radiator is that it's less expensive, about two-thirds lighter, less expensive, more corrosion resistant with modern coolant, less expensive, and lasts longer. Oh, and did I mention that aluminum radiators are less expensive? Of course, that's the real reason brass/copper radiators aren't manufactured any longer. I believe some radiators even have plastic tanks bonded to an aluminum core. -Mike Eldred Wilmington, VT > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:52:52 +0200 > To: max_heim at sbcglobal.net > From: palte at gmx.net > CC: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? > > Well, I always thought that the prime reason for using aluminium > radiators nowadays > is the cost, since brass has become very expensive... > > > At 19:33 24-8-2010, you wrote: > >Yeah, but there are a couple hundred thousand MGBs running around with brass > >radiators that cool just fine. So an aluminum radiator is essentially just > >throwing money at the problem. > > > > > >-- > > > >Max Heim > >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 > >If you're near Mountain View, CA, > >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > > > > > >on 8/24/10 8:21 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: > > > > > I had lots of heating problems with my MGB GT V8 so heating problems > > > are of great interest to me. Obviously a V8 needs more attention > > > than the 4 cylinder but there are some lessons to be learnt. If it > > > was my MGB that was overheating, after checking the obvious > > > (thermostat, blockages etc) I would rip out the rad and install an > > > aluminium one. My V8 got to normality after I had ceramic coated the > > > exhaust pipes, put in a stonking electric fan, and an aluminium > > > rad. For the 4 cylinder I think only the last item is appropriate. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:53 AM 8/24/2010, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: > > >> I had a '70 B when I lived in the desert. It ran a bit warm after I > > >> rebuilt the engine. When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt > > >> with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. Wouldn't > > >> surprise me if your after market rad has a bit lower cooling > > >> capacity then the original. > > >> > > >> CR > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com From barneymg at mgaguru.com Tue Aug 24 14:24:31 2010 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:24:31 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> References: <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <857810.54390.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That's funny. Have you checked out the price on a custom fabrcated aluminum radiator? Alminum radiators are cheaper in mass production, but you can't buy one (mass produced) off the shelf for an MGA or MGB. Also since aluminum does not conduct heat as well as copper and brass, the aluminum radiator has to be larger to do any good. Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude http://MGAguru.com At 08:52 PM 8/24/2010 +0200, Bert Palte wrote: >Well, I always thought that the prime reason for using aluminium >radiators nowadays >is the cost, since brass has become very expensive... > > >At 19:33 24-8-2010, Max Heim wrote: >>Yeah, but there are a couple hundred thousand MGBs running around with brass >>radiators that cool just fine. So an aluminum radiator is essentially just >>throwing money at the problem. >>.... >> >> >>on 8/24/10 8:21 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: >> > .... Obviously a V8 needs more attention .... If it >> > was my MGB that was overheating, after checking the obvious >> > .... I would rip out the rad and install an aluminium one. .... >> > >> > >> > At 08:53 AM 8/24/2010, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: >> >> .... When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt >> >> with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. .... From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Tue Aug 24 15:25:53 2010 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] 64B on the road In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D91D@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D912@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F0593D91D@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <411429.85218.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Good deal, David.... Looks a lot like my '65. What is the chassis number on your car? Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: "Councill, David" To: Paul Root Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 2:58:01 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] 64B on the road Was this an educated guess? I hadn't really thought about the color selection back then. My first MGB was an old English white 65 B (with primer surrounding several prominent holes eaten by rust). And this one is tartan red. I had to dig up my pictures when I started the restoration: Picture of the car as I towed it back to Montana: http://www.karamursel.org/mg/64b.jpg And a few webpages where I was tracking the initial restoration: http://www.karamursel.org/mg/64B.htm http://www.karamursel.org/mg/restoration2.htm I guess I should take some more pictures of it in its current running condition. I still have some scuffing on the bonnet due to the previous owner covering it with a tarp that I haven't buffed out. I did replace the grille and the car also now sports four original early year rims and hubcaps (a few have minor pitting so I'll have to get them re-chromed). Both doors need to be completed on the interior. Have to install a new top. Nisonger has just sent my Jaegar speedometer back after repair. So overall, the car still needs a lot more work. Fortunately, it has very little rust in the usual areas. On a related note, my 72B was a more extensive restoration which is mostly complete. Are they ever complete? I decided I better at least get the wipers to work which I did last weekend. So all that's left with it is the heater to look at/fix and some repairs to the hard top. And the overdrive, but its gathering dust in the garage at present. David Councill 64 B tartan red 67 BGT british racing green 72 B black tulip -----Original Message----- From: Paul Root [mailto:ptroot at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Paul Root Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 11:26 AM To: Councill, David Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] 64B on the road Sounds great, David! You don't state a color? That means it's not Iris Blue or old English White. I'm going to guess Tartan Red. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From stargazer1 at cox.net Tue Aug 24 15:45:51 2010 From: stargazer1 at cox.net (David Ambrose) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:45:51 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: , , <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <4C743D8F.7080306@cox.net> On 8/24/2010 12:50 PM, Mike Eldred wrote: > The benefit of an aluminum radiator is that it's less expensive, about > two-thirds lighter, less expensive, more corrosion resistant with modern > coolant, less expensive, and lasts longer. Oh, and did I mention that > aluminum radiators are less expensive? Of course, that's the real reason > brass/copper radiators aren't manufactured any longer. I believe some > radiators even have plastic tanks bonded to an aluminum core. All the recent vintage Japanese cares in this household have an aluminum radiator with plastic top and bottom tanks. They suck. The tanks are crimped in, and cannot be repaired. They crack where the hoses attach and you get the privilege of replacing the entire radiator. Oddly enough, the brass replacement radiators, when available, half the price as a factory replacement radiator. We don't have any aluminum radiators any more. Cheers, Dave Ambrose From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 24 15:47:36 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:47:36 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <857810.54390.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Barney. I knew they were expensive, and that explains why -- they're custom-made. And the assumption is that anyone who wants to pay a premium is probably a racer or a wanna-be, so they are usually larger capacity crossflow designs, which explains how they can be "higher performance" given the inferior thermal qualities of aluminum. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/24/10 1:24 PM, Barney Gaylord at barneymg at mgaguru.com wrote: > That's funny. Have you checked out the price on a custom fabrcated > aluminum radiator? Alminum radiators are cheaper in mass production, > but you can't buy one (mass produced) off the shelf for an MGA or > MGB. Also since aluminum does not conduct heat as well as copper and > brass, the aluminum radiator has to be larger to do any good. > > Barney Gaylord > 1958 MGA with an attitude > http://MGAguru.com > > > At 08:52 PM 8/24/2010 +0200, Bert Palte wrote: >> Well, I always thought that the prime reason for using aluminium >> radiators nowadays >> is the cost, since brass has become very expensive... >> >> >> At 19:33 24-8-2010, Max Heim wrote: >>> Yeah, but there are a couple hundred thousand MGBs running around with brass >>> radiators that cool just fine. So an aluminum radiator is essentially just >>> throwing money at the problem. >>> .... >>> >>> >>> on 8/24/10 8:21 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: >>>> .... Obviously a V8 needs more attention .... If it >>>> was my MGB that was overheating, after checking the obvious >>>> .... I would rip out the rad and install an aluminium one. .... >>>> >>>> >>>> At 08:53 AM 8/24/2010, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: >>>>> .... When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt >>>>> with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. .... From barrie at look.ca Tue Aug 24 15:35:06 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:35:06 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Admittedly the best solution is to find the problem and putting in aluminium radiator may be using a hammer to knock in tin tack. But then MGBs do overheat given hot climates and big hills and thrashing - so who knows (only the Shadow!). I wonder if it is an internal collapsed wall of a rubber hose, - or maybe the water has been put in upside down?? I believe that the efficiency of aluminium rads has nothing to do with thermal co-efficiency but because aluminium is stronger and one can use long sided rectangular tubes giving far more surface area and thus better cooling. Anyone know about this? At 01:33 PM 8/24/2010, Max Heim wrote: >Yeah, but there are a couple hundred thousand MGBs running around with brass >radiators that cool just fine. So an aluminum radiator is essentially just >throwing money at the problem. > > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > >on 8/24/10 8:21 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: > > > I had lots of heating problems with my MGB GT V8 so heating problems > > are of great interest to me. Obviously a V8 needs more attention > > than the 4 cylinder but there are some lessons to be learnt. If it > > was my MGB that was overheating, after checking the obvious > > (thermostat, blockages etc) I would rip out the rad and install an > > aluminium one. My V8 got to normality after I had ceramic coated the > > exhaust pipes, put in a stonking electric fan, and an aluminium > > rad. For the 4 cylinder I think only the last item is appropriate. > > > > > > > > At 08:53 AM 8/24/2010, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: > >> I had a '70 B when I lived in the desert. It ran a bit warm after I > >> rebuilt the engine. When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt > >> with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. Wouldn't > >> surprise me if your after market rad has a bit lower cooling > >> capacity then the original. > >> > >> CR >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca Regards Barrie (705) 721-9060 From barrie at look.ca Tue Aug 24 15:40:42 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:40:42 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I have to entirely disagree on this point. I had a custom aluminium rad made by Howe's Racing and to the exact spec of the brass one I had. The difference was astounding ! I now have the problem that my engine runs too cool in 5th going down a highway at constant 120kmh. Also maybe these rice-burner-wannabe-Schumachers know something as they all seem to have aluminium rads. At 03:50 PM 8/24/2010, Mike Eldred wrote: >I'm no radiator expert, but I play one on TV, and my understanding is that >brass/copper radiators are as much two times more efficient than aluminum >radiators. >The benefit of an aluminum radiator is that it's less expensive, about >two-thirds lighter, less expensive, more corrosion resistant with modern >coolant, less expensive, and lasts longer. Oh, and did I mention that >aluminum radiators are less expensive? Of course, that's the real reason >brass/copper radiators aren't manufactured any longer. I believe some >radiators even have plastic tanks bonded to an aluminum core. > >-Mike Eldred >Wilmington, VT > > > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:52:52 +0200 > > To: max_heim at sbcglobal.net > > From: palte at gmx.net > > CC: mgs at autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? > > > > Well, I always thought that the prime reason for using aluminium > > radiators nowadays > > is the cost, since brass has become very expensive... > > > > > > At 19:33 24-8-2010, you wrote: > > >Yeah, but there are a couple hundred thousand MGBs running around with >brass > > >radiators that cool just fine. So an aluminum radiator is essentially just > > >throwing money at the problem. > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > > >Max Heim > > >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 > > >If you're near Mountain View, CA, > > >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > > > > > > > > > >on 8/24/10 8:21 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: > > > > > > > I had lots of heating problems with my MGB GT V8 so heating problems > > > > are of great interest to me. Obviously a V8 needs more attention > > > > than the 4 cylinder but there are some lessons to be learnt. If it > > > > was my MGB that was overheating, after checking the obvious > > > > (thermostat, blockages etc) I would rip out the rad and install an > > > > aluminium one. My V8 got to normality after I had ceramic coated the > > > > exhaust pipes, put in a stonking electric fan, and an aluminium > > > > rad. For the 4 cylinder I think only the last item is appropriate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:53 AM 8/24/2010, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: > > > >> I had a '70 B when I lived in the desert. It ran a bit warm after I > > > >> rebuilt the engine. When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt > > > >> with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. Wouldn't > > > >> surprise me if your after market rad has a bit lower cooling > > > >> capacity then the original. > > > >> > > > >> CR > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca Regards Barrie (705) 721-9060 From WSpohn4 at aol.com Tue Aug 24 17:01:50 2010 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:01:50 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? Message-ID: I have to disagree with this, Barrie. Aluminum is cheaper in terms of material cost, but it does not shed the same heat as a copper/brass core will. If you get better results with the aluminum radiator, it is because it has a bigger or better designed core, or it is simply new and had better flow than your old one you tossed out. I like them for weight considerations in race cars, but in terms of shedding heat the copper is simply better. The tubes in a copper core are smaller as the material isn't as stiff and would swell if large tubes were made, and so the larger tube alloy rads clog less easily. The clamped tank alloy rads are garbage and often leak at which point you throw them away. Always buy bonded core/tanks, whichever way you go. If you made identical thickness cores with exactly the same size tubes and fins per inch, the copper core will shed more heat. To get the same cooling capacity of an aluminum radiator you need a copper radiator with 15% smaller size - which because it is smaller will also be 7% lighter. What usually happens is that with the same size radiator, the alloy rad is lighter but doesn't cool quite as well, so you opt for a thicker core to make up for that. Bill In a message dated 8/24/2010 3:39:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, barrie at look.ca writes: I have to entirely disagree on this point. I had a custom aluminium rad made by Howe's Racing and to the exact spec of the brass one I had. The difference was astounding ! I now have the problem that my engine runs too cool in 5th going down a highway at constant 120kmh. Also maybe these rice-burner-wannabe-Schumachers know something as they all seem to have aluminium rads. From stargazer1 at cox.net Tue Aug 24 18:14:56 2010 From: stargazer1 at cox.net (David Ambrose) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:14:56 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C746080.9000500@cox.net> Aluminum and brass are both good heat conductors. In point of fact, aluminum conducts heat much better than brass, though not as well as copper. All other things being equal, an aluminum radiator should be better than a brass one. However, other things are rarely equal. I suspect the big determinate in clean radiator performance is the heat transfer from the radiator to the air. The temperature gradients are not that huge, so the heat transfer is probably limited by the physical design more than the construction material. There are probably a few things you can do with aluminum radiators that you can't do with brass. Extruded tubes come to mind, and that will certainly make a big difference. The only way to know with any certainty is to measure the temperatures going into, and coming out of, the radiator. Cheers, Dave From eric at erickson.on.net Tue Aug 24 18:15:58 2010 From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:45:58 +0930 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <4C7460BE.60604@erickson.on.net> Barrie Robinson wrote: > I have to entirely disagree on this point. I had a custom aluminium > rad made by Howe's Racing and to the exact spec of the brass one I > had. The difference was astounding ! I now have the problem that my > engine runs too cool in 5th going down a highway at constant 120kmh. > Also maybe these rice-burner-wannabe-Schumachers know something as > they all seem to have aluminium rads. > > Well, this is MY experience with my (relatively new) alloy radiator. I have always had some sort of overheating issues under various conditions (road or track) with most of my engines at some time. My alloy radiator has eliminated those issues to date. Road use - a little cool. Track use - perfect. Expensive? It depends on what you call expensive. Mine cost me about $AU400.00 and it is regarded as a "performance part". Not much more than one of my tires (that are consumables which will last maybe a year - the radiator should last a little longer than that) so I don't regard that as expensive. Eric From riverside at southslope.net Tue Aug 24 20:10:07 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 21:10:07 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> Message-ID: <005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Do you brake with your left foot in your nomally driven automatic car? Ron Sanborn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley & Peggy Robinson" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 8:16 AM Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? > Here's a little trouble-shooting exercise for ya, gang. I got my '69 B > out of the garage after it had been sitting undriven for several > months.Backed her out, hit the brakes and the pedal went to the metal! > Wound up on the grass next to my driveway, fortunately an uphill slope. > So I look in the master cylinder and the front chamber is almost dry - my > bad, should have kept it topped up. So I fill it with Dot 4, do a little > bleeding and get a nice firm pedal with no leaking down. Drove the car a > few times in the cool of the morning with no problem. > > Couple days later I'm pulling slowly into my garage, got to stop and the > brake pedal goes to the metal! I almost yanked the handbrake lever off > the floor! So after I changed shorts, I looked in the master and it was > still full. Hopped in the car and tried the brakes again and they worked > fine with a firm pedal. Brake lights work too and there are no > discernible leaks. > > I think I know what's wrong. What's your take? > > CR > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net From ccrobins at ktc.com Wed Aug 25 00:14:51 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 01:14:51 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> <005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: <4C74B4DB.5060500@ktc.com> No. Always drove stick shifts up until around 2004 on the Prius and 2007 on the Ford pickup. Only stick I have now is the B. Why do you ask? CR On 8/24/2010 9:10 PM, riverside wrote: > Do you brake with your left foot in your nomally driven automatic car? > Ron Sanborn From ccrobins at ktc.com Wed Aug 25 00:19:02 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 01:19:02 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> <005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: <4C74B5D6.9080808@ktc.com> Ok gang, here's the final hint: Take a look at the trap valves. :-P CR From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Aug 25 02:03:39 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:03:39 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com><005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> <4C74B5D6.9080808@ktc.com> Message-ID: <03F63677B97F42168BF6E5745A077C13@paul> Explain how the trap valve, situated in the outlet port of the master, can cause the pedal to go to the floor? Where does the fluid displaced by the master piston go? And why did both circuits apparently do it at exactly the same time, then stop doing it at exactly the same time? I say again, the whole purpose of the dual-circuit master is that if one circuit fails, the other will still operate to give some braking. Most of it if it is the rear circuit that has failed, very little of it if it is the front circuit. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Ok gang, here's the final hint: Take a look at the trap valves. :-P From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Aug 25 01:52:04 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:52:04 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> <005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: <595BB229271A4B92B637669DA3E4A64F@paul> You can do either. The normal recommendation for people moving from a manual to an automatic is to tuck the left foot back so you are not tempted to use it, because if you apply the brake with that foot with the pressure you usually use for the clutch you will stand the car on its nose. Once you get used to left-foot braking i.e. driving autos all the time, then there can be benefits in some circumstances (although not having had an auto for many years I can't remember what they are ...) PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Do you brake with your left foot in your nomally driven automatic car? From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Aug 25 01:47:04 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:47:04 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? References: <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8AD69AFE635F4F9B97F36D02E51FAB7A@paul> You are comparing a rotten orange with a shiny new apple. And overcooling means the thermostat isn't doing the job it's supposed to, outside of very low winter temperatures. ----- Original Message ----- >I have to entirely disagree on this point. I had a custom aluminium rad >made by Howe's Racing and to the exact spec of the brass one I had. The >difference was astounding ! I now have the problem that my engine runs too >cool in 5th going down a highway at constant 120kmh. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Aug 25 01:44:06 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:44:06 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? References: <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <12BBA5F32F4C4AC88A08F901370856C4@paul> Correct, and I've even heard of plastic radiators. Doesn't matter how inefficient at heat transfer a radiator gets (is aluminium better or worse than brass? Surely worse than copper?), as long as the designers of the *overall* system make it big enough and there is enough air forced through it as in modern cars. But I agree with the view that the 4-cylinder MGB in particular needs no mods if everything works as it should. If a particular car has a cooling problem, then there is a fault in it that needs correcting. I used to worry about my V8 even in the UK, having seen it on the border of the red (but still no coolant loss). After the header tank seam split twice I replaced it, and did opt for an uprated rad, but was very disappointed with the results. Since I went through the electrical connections for the fans cleaning them up as well as beefing them up, I've never had cause for concern. I've had it on test at nearly 40C and the needle only got 2/3rds the way from N to H. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Well, I always thought that the prime reason for using aluminium radiators > nowadays > is the cost, since brass has become very expensive... From lundgren at byu.net Wed Aug 25 06:41:44 2010 From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 06:41:44 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <595BB229271A4B92B637669DA3E4A64F@paul> References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> <005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> <595BB229271A4B92B637669DA3E4A64F@paul> Message-ID: <4C750F88.9050908@byu.net> One benefit is that you can get new brakes all the time. I never asked my mother-in-law about it, but she seemed to do it regularly for that purpose! :) On 08/25/2010 01:52 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > You can do either. The normal recommendation for people moving from a > manual to an automatic is to tuck the left foot back so you are not > tempted to use it, because if you apply the brake with that foot with > the pressure you usually use for the clutch you will stand the car on > its nose. Once you get used to left-foot braking i.e. driving autos > all the time, then there can be benefits in some circumstances > (although not having had an auto for many years I can't remember what > they are ...) > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Do you brake with your left foot in your nomally driven automatic car? > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/lundgren at byu.net From barrie at look.ca Wed Aug 25 09:57:05 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:57:05 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill, I was told (and I have not checked out my al rad) that aluminium allowed big fat high surface area tubes that would be impossible with copper/brass. Thus it gave vastly more cooling surface which pounded copper/brass rads into the ground ...well, slight exaggeration. But every time I chat to an al rad installer they all say it made a marked improvement. This especially true in the MGB V8 crowd. My al rad was exactly the same size as the brass one from D&D - but it cooled considerably better - no bones about that. At 07:01 PM 8/24/2010, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote: >I have to disagree with this, Barrie. > >Aluminum is cheaper in terms of material cost, but it does not shed the >same heat as a copper/brass core will. If you get better results with the >aluminum radiator, it is because it has a bigger or better designed >core, or it > is simply new and had better flow than your old one you tossed out. > >I like them for weight considerations in race cars, but in terms of >shedding heat the copper is simply better. The tubes in a copper core are >smaller as the material isn't as stiff and would swell if large >tubes were made, >and so the larger tube alloy rads clog less easily. > >The clamped tank alloy rads are garbage and often leak at which point you >throw them away. Always buy bonded core/tanks, whichever way you go. > >If you made identical thickness cores with exactly the same size tubes and >fins per inch, the copper core will shed more heat. To get the same cooling > capacity of an aluminum radiator you need a copper radiator with 15% >smaller size - which because it is smaller will also be 7% lighter. What >usually happens is that with the same size radiator, the alloy rad >is lighter but > doesn't cool quite as well, so you opt for a thicker core to make up for >that. > >Bill > > >In a message dated 8/24/2010 3:39:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >barrie at look.ca writes: > >I have to entirely disagree on this point. I had a custom aluminium >rad made by Howe's Racing and to the exact spec of the brass one I >had. The difference was astounding ! I now have the problem that my >engine runs too cool in 5th going down a highway at constant >120kmh. Also maybe these rice-burner-wannabe-Schumachers know >something as they all seem to have aluminium rads. >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca Regards Barrie barrie at look.ca 705--721-9060 From barrie at look.ca Wed Aug 25 09:25:41 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:25:41 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <8AD69AFE635F4F9B97F36D02E51FAB7A@paul> References: <20100824185208.6AD5A187645@autox.team.net> <8AD69AFE635F4F9B97F36D02E51FAB7A@paul> Message-ID: Paul, Cheeeeese, How did I miss that? Probably because I just put in a new thermostat.....and that probably threw me off.... so i will take it out and test it. Mind you, the needle is just about 5- 10 degrees below norm so no disaster. At 03:47 AM 8/25/2010, Paul Hunt wrote: >You are comparing a rotten orange with a shiny new apple. And >overcooling means the thermostat isn't doing the job it's supposed >to, outside of very low winter temperatures. > >----- Original Message ----- >>I have to entirely disagree on this point. I had a custom >>aluminium rad made by Howe's Racing and to the exact spec of the >>brass one I had. The difference was astounding ! I now have the >>problem that my engine runs too cool in 5th going down a highway at >>constant 120kmh. > Regards Barrie barrie at look.ca 705--721-9060 From barrie at look.ca Wed Aug 25 09:05:30 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:05:30 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: References: <857810.54390.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Max, The thermal qualities of aluminium are not all that bad - I do believe it is the aluminium's strength to allow bigger tubes that give better cooling At 05:47 PM 8/24/2010, Max Heim wrote: >Thank you, Barney. I knew they were expensive, and that explains why -- >they're custom-made. And the assumption is that anyone who wants to pay a >premium is probably a racer or a wanna-be, so they are usually larger >capacity crossflow designs, which explains how they can be "higher >performance" given the inferior thermal qualities of aluminum. > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > >on 8/24/10 1:24 PM, Barney Gaylord at barneymg at mgaguru.com wrote: > > > That's funny. Have you checked out the price on a custom fabrcated > > aluminum radiator? Alminum radiators are cheaper in mass production, > > but you can't buy one (mass produced) off the shelf for an MGA or > > MGB. Also since aluminum does not conduct heat as well as copper and > > brass, the aluminum radiator has to be larger to do any good. > > > > Barney Gaylord > > 1958 MGA with an attitude > > http://MGAguru.com > > > > > > At 08:52 PM 8/24/2010 +0200, Bert Palte wrote: > >> Well, I always thought that the prime reason for using aluminium > >> radiators nowadays > >> is the cost, since brass has become very expensive... > >> > >> > >> At 19:33 24-8-2010, Max Heim wrote: > >>> Yeah, but there are a couple hundred thousand MGBs running > around with brass > >>> radiators that cool just fine. So an aluminum radiator is > essentially just > >>> throwing money at the problem. > >>> .... > >>> > >>> > >>> on 8/24/10 8:21 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: > >>>> .... Obviously a V8 needs more attention .... If it > >>>> was my MGB that was overheating, after checking the obvious > >>>> .... I would rip out the rad and install an aluminium one. .... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> At 08:53 AM 8/24/2010, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: > >>>>> .... When it finally sprung a leak I had it rebuilt > >>>>> with a new, thicker core. Ran at normal temps after that. .... >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca Regards Barrie barrie at look.ca 705--721-9060 From twobees at sprynet.com Wed Aug 25 12:50:04 2010 From: twobees at sprynet.com (Norm 2Bs) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:50:04 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking Message-ID: <004801cb4486$54ca94a0$6401a8c0@normoffice> I missed the start of this thread. But, here's my 2-cents. "You can do either. The normal recommendation for people moving from a manual to an automatic is to tuck the left foot back so you are not tempted to use it, because if you apply the brake with that foot with the pressure you usually use for the clutch you will stand the car on its nose. Once you get used to left-foot braking i.e. driving autos all the time, then there can be benefits in some circumstances (although not having had an auto for many years I can't remember what they are ...) PaulH." Driver's Ed ALWAYS taught us to use ONLY the right foot - gas & brake with an automatic. Then one day I heard someone say that you can save 3/4 second by braking with the left foot with a/t. Makes sense since you don't have to move your foot & leg over. (And, in the past year more than a few Toyota drivers have had a major problem doing that. As did people back in the '80s with Audis. During those days both my parents & us had Audis 5000s. Never had a runaway problem with either because we left-foot-braked. In fact I used to do demos for doubters - flooring the gas pedal with my right foot & stopping the car with my left foot on the brake with no drama at all.) What does 3/4 second mean in the real world? Someone else can do the calculations for the exact number. But, it is about 75 feet at 60 mph. How many times do you think a 75 foot safety margin could keep you out of an accident with your 13-foot long MGB? Enough said. With an auto trans, I brake with my left foot. Has saved my butt more than once. Norm From barrie at look.ca Wed Aug 25 13:07:28 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:07:28 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? In-Reply-To: <3059.484be470.39a69b9a@aol.com> References: <3059.484be470.39a69b9a@aol.com> Message-ID: Bill, It never is my take that any lister is taking a snipe at me. On the whole everyone is polite and we all share experiences with no malice a fore thought!. But I have to go by my experience and that is an al rad replacing a virtually new brass one from D&D (no slouches in quality) made one awesome difference. Now, admittedly, I have a stonking V8 in the gnat sized engine bay and overheating is legendary for V8 conversions but it did fix my problem. Whenever I go to V8 meets the usual cry for those with the dreaded hot flushes problem is answered by advice to go to an al rad. Maybe the new copper is Kurnifer which is copper and nickel??? At 12:15 PM 8/25/2010, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote: >No question that the rigidity of the material allows larger tube >diameters, and the core construction is thus different. The shop I >talk to says that while this will give advantage over OEM rads with >brass tanks and copper cores, it isn't better than a modern >'optimal' copper core which is what they now use for recoring them. > >I have nothing against alloy cores, I just see them being given all >the credit for improving cooling when in fact 90% of the improvement >is due to ditching a clogged OEM core for a clean modern one. > >I use alloy core on some of my stuff, but still use copper in the >race car. The advantages are more the lighter weight for the same >cooling and the fact that you can easily get a crossflow core. > >Didn't mean to snipe at you, I was just commenting that I didn't >entirely agree with what you had stated, Barrie. > >Bill > >In a message dated 8/25/2010 9:02:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >barrie at look.ca writes: >I was told (and I have not checked out my al rad) that aluminium >allowed big fat high surface area tubes that would be impossible >with copper/brass. Thus it gave vastly more cooling surface which >pounded copper/brass rads into the ground ...well, slight >exaggeration. But every time I chat to an al rad installer they all >say it made a marked improvement. This especially true in the MGB >V8 crowd. My al rad was exactly the same size as the brass one >from D&D - but it cooled considerably better - no bones about that. Regards Barrie barrie at look.ca 705--721-9060 From thgun at comporium.net Wed Aug 25 18:30:23 2010 From: thgun at comporium.net (Tom Gunderson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:30:23 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGA oil weight Message-ID: <87518944AC1F42FDAD66B55DE64F08DC@TOMPC> What is the weight that I should be running in my 1957, 1500 MGA rst? Tom Gunderson From ccrobins at ktc.com Wed Aug 25 21:34:59 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:34:59 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <03F63677B97F42168BF6E5745A077C13@paul> References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com><005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> <4C74B5D6.9080808@ktc.com> <03F63677B97F42168BF6E5745A077C13@paul> Message-ID: <4C75E0E3.9010500@ktc.com> Think it through and keep in mind that the rear piston pushes the front one when there is pressure in the master. Also, there is a trap valve on each outlet. For those who haven't read up on Trap Valves (TV) - called Residual Pressure Valves (RPV) in US parlance - they are one way valves that let high pressure fluid flow through from master to slave but shut off low pressure reverse flow from slave to master. The idea is to keep the return springs at the wheel cylinders from retracting the slave cylinder pistons all the way into the cylinders. Likewise to keep the caliper pistons from being knocked all the way back in by the rotors. The trap valves give us that little bit of drag we're used to seeing. Without the TVs/RPVs we'd have to move a lot more fluid with each brake application than we do with them, plus they compensate for wear to a limited degree. My take on my intermittent problem is that the rear trap valve sometimes sticks open when the brakes are released. This allows the pistons to retract all the way; meaning that the next time the brake pedal is pushed there isn't enough fluid in that cylinder to engage the wheel cylinders before the pedal runs out of travel. Since there's no pressure in the rear cylinder the front piston doesn't get actuated either, so pedal to the metal. When the pedal is pushed a couple more times and the trap valve resumes working; say it comes unstuck or a little piece of debris gets flushed out, normal fluid distribution occurrs and the brakes work OK. Until the next time........ A few years ago when this problem first surfaced I replaced ther master cylinder with a rebuilt unit. However it was a bare bones unit. I had to use the valves, reservoir, etc., from the old one. Things were fine for a while but now the problem is back. I have a new reproduction master coming from LB Car Co (Moss 180-176). Hopefully the valves are new too. Meanwhile the car is sidelined. CR On 8/25/2010 3:03 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > Explain how the trap valve, situated in the outlet port of the master, > can cause the pedal to go to the floor? Where does the fluid > displaced by the master piston go? And why did both circuits > apparently do it at exactly the same time, then stop doing it at > exactly the same time? > > I say again, the whole purpose of the dual-circuit master is that if > one circuit fails, the other will still operate to give some braking. > Most of it if it is the rear circuit that has failed, very little of > it if it is the front circuit. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Ok gang, here's the final hint: Take a look at the trap valves. :-P From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 25 22:37:45 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:37:45 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <4C75E0E3.9010500@ktc.com> Message-ID: Hmm, I wouldn't expect to see a residual pressure valve on the disc brake half of the MC. My American car only has one on the rear line for the drums. My MG has only a single MC, so I would have thought the RPV would be after the split. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/25/10 8:34 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson at ccrobins at ktc.com wrote: > Think it through and keep in mind that the rear piston pushes the front > one when there is pressure in the master. Also, there is a trap valve > on each outlet. > > For those who haven't read up on Trap Valves (TV) - called Residual > Pressure Valves (RPV) in US parlance - they are one way valves that let > high pressure fluid flow through from master to slave but shut off low > pressure reverse flow from slave to master. The idea is to keep the > return springs at the wheel cylinders from retracting the slave cylinder > pistons all the way into the cylinders. Likewise to keep the caliper > pistons from being knocked all the way back in by the rotors. The trap > valves give us that little bit of drag we're used to seeing. Without > the TVs/RPVs we'd have to move a lot more fluid with each brake > application than we do with them, plus they compensate for wear to a > limited degree. > > My take on my intermittent problem is that the rear trap valve > sometimes sticks open when the brakes are released. This allows the > pistons to retract all the way; meaning that the next time the brake > pedal is pushed there isn't enough fluid in that cylinder to engage the > wheel cylinders before the pedal runs out of travel. Since there's no > pressure in the rear cylinder the front piston doesn't get actuated > either, so pedal to the metal. When the pedal is pushed a couple more > times and the trap valve resumes working; say it comes unstuck or a > little piece of debris gets flushed out, normal fluid distribution > occurrs and the brakes work OK. Until the next time........ > > A few years ago when this problem first surfaced I replaced ther master > cylinder with a rebuilt unit. However it was a bare bones unit. I had > to use the valves, reservoir, etc., from the old one. Things were fine > for a while but now the problem is back. I have a new reproduction > master coming from LB Car Co (Moss 180-176). Hopefully the valves are > new too. Meanwhile the car is sidelined. > > CR > > > > > > > > On 8/25/2010 3:03 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: >> Explain how the trap valve, situated in the outlet port of the master, >> can cause the pedal to go to the floor? Where does the fluid >> displaced by the master piston go? And why did both circuits >> apparently do it at exactly the same time, then stop doing it at >> exactly the same time? >> >> I say again, the whole purpose of the dual-circuit master is that if >> one circuit fails, the other will still operate to give some braking. >> Most of it if it is the rear circuit that has failed, very little of >> it if it is the front circuit. >> >> PaulH. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> Ok gang, here's the final hint: Take a look at the trap valves. :-P From lrc at red4est.com Wed Aug 25 22:46:40 2010 From: lrc at red4est.com (Larry Colen) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:46:40 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] '74 MGBGT for sale, Santa Cruz mountains Message-ID: <3B831699-F37C-4507-95EB-5E86A2571918@red4est.com> Last weekend I was checking out a 1960 Land Rover at the local Foster's Freeze. A friend of the owner is trying to sell his wife's MGBGT, she injured her knee and can't drive a clutch any more. Brian sent me a couple of pictures and it looks very clean, but I won't clog the list serve with the bandwidth of forwarding the pictures, so email him for more details. I've cc'd him on the list. Here are the details: 1974 MGB-GT White with new tan leather interior, brown carpets, new windshield, good tires, new master cylinder, new side moldings, new battery and many more replaced items. Kept in garage and driven on weekends. Asking $4500 or best offer. Call Brian 831-295-4447 or email hlacey at cruzio.com -- Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com sent from i4est From riverside at southslope.net Wed Aug 25 23:32:05 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:32:05 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> <005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> <4C74B4DB.5060500@ktc.com> Message-ID: <001401cb44e0$05ecd000$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> I brake left foot with automatics, right foot with stick shift. Probably so can maintain instant throttle control. After several mounths of driving the automatic (winter car, rust-out what you don't like) I have made the mistake of trying to left foot brake my stickshift. Whoops, wrong pedal !! What did cause your brake failure? Ron Sanborn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley & Peggy Robinson" To: "riverside" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:14 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? > No. Always drove stick shifts up until around 2004 on the Prius and 2007 > on the Ford pickup. Only stick I have now is the B. Why do you ask? > > CR > > > > On 8/24/2010 9:10 PM, riverside wrote: >> Do you brake with your left foot in your nomally driven automatic car? >> Ron Sanborn From riverside at southslope.net Wed Aug 25 23:48:52 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:48:52 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGA oil weight References: <87518944AC1F42FDAD66B55DE64F08DC@TOMPC> Message-ID: <006201cb44e2$5db016b0$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Whatever oil you run, don't forget the ZDDP ! Ron Sanborn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Gunderson" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:30 PM Subject: [Mgs] MGA oil weight > What is the weight that I should be running in my 1957, 1500 MGA rst? > Tom Gunderson > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Aug 26 01:56:16 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:56:16 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Repair or replace Radiator? References: <857810.54390.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6D01E1A7DBD84EC98B65FF5AD1D6E002@paul> That does tie in with having read about a single row of tubes in higher efficiency radiators, as opposed to the multiple rows of offset copper/brass. My '30% uprated' V8 copper/brass rad was very disappointing, the 4th row probably losing almost as much in increased resistance to air-flow as it gains in increased surface area. Price is just a matter of what people will pay, not what it costs. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > The thermal qualities of aluminium are not all that bad - I do believe it > is the aluminium's strength to allow bigger tubes that give better cooling From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Aug 26 02:02:53 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:02:53 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking References: <004801cb4486$54ca94a0$6401a8c0@normoffice> Message-ID: The people who have been having trouble with Toyotas over the last year or so have almost certainly been driving automatics for many years before. The Toyota problem seems to be far more serious, although precisely what still doesn't seem to be clear. The most recent thing I have read on the subject is that Toyota claim from the analysis of a number of 'black boxes' recovered from crashed cars (!), that the drivers didn't brake at all. That beggars belief, and even the company putting it out as a cause is almost believable, in that they expect us to believe it. Either that, or the human race is getting far more stupid than ever I had believed. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > ... Makes sense since you don't have to > move your foot & leg over. (And, in the past year more than a few Toyota > drivers have had a major problem doing that. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Aug 26 02:41:03 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:41:03 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com><005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> <4C74B5D6.9080808@ktc.com> <03F63677B97F42168BF6E5745A077C13@paul> <4C75E0E3.9010500@ktc.com> Message-ID: <03711BB34F3F41A5B5754BB849BC19DB@paul> This completely misses the point of dual circuit brakes, which is that even if one circuit is completely open, the other will still work, albeit with a slightly longer pedal. Also single-circuit masters don't have these trap valves, and neither as far as I can see do the boosted dual masters. Rear slave cylinders do not fully retract anyway if you have the shoe and handbrake cable correctly adjusted, and just how far are discs going to push caliper pistons back unless you have massive hub wobble? Incorrectly adjusted rear brakes and handbrake do indeed cause a long pedal, but whether they could ever be maladjusted enough to cause the pedal to go to the floor is a moot point. But even if they could, that could still only happen on a *single-circuit system*, not a dual circuit. A trap-valve in the rear circuit may well 'conceal' a maladjusted handbrake from the footbrake pedal, but not from the handbrake lever itself, which would probably come all the way up without applying the brakes. If you handbrake is working correctly, then the trap valves aren't doing anything anyway. You have two major questions to answer - where did all the fluid go from the front circuit? And what is causing *both* circuits to fail? Until you find and fix at least the second, it would be highly dangerous to drive the car anywhere, let alone on a public road. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > For those who haven't read up on Trap Valves (TV) - called Residual > Pressure Valves (RPV) in US parlance - they are one way valves that let > high pressure fluid flow through from master to slave but shut off low > pressure reverse flow from slave to master. The idea is to keep the > return springs at the wheel cylinders from retracting the slave cylinder > pistons all the way into the cylinders. Likewise to keep the caliper > pistons from being knocked all the way back in by the rotors. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Aug 26 02:34:08 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:34:08 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MGA oil weight References: <87518944AC1F42FDAD66B55DE64F08DC@TOMPC> Message-ID: Maybe 30wt originally, no reason not to use 20W/50 now I would have said. If you are bothered about ZDDP then use one intended for both Diesel and petrol engines. i.e. has both API Cx and Sx grades on the container. Diesel engine oils have higher quantities of ZDDP - at the moment. There is no guarantee that an oil that had high ZDDP 10 or 20 years ago still has it, without looking at the specs. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > What is the weight that I should be running in my 1957, 1500 MGA rst? From thgun at comporium.net Thu Aug 26 04:26:07 2010 From: thgun at comporium.net (thgun at comporium.net) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] OIL Message-ID: <20100826062607.EVQ61210@ms1.comporium.net> I was asking about oil because I changed the oil last week. My oil reads 40 - 50 while driving at about 50 mph. Idle drops it to near 20. I am using 10w30 Castroil. After I replaced the water pump, cleaned the radiator, new main hoses and installed a 160 thermostat. The temp seems to be running correct. Around 190. The temp gauge last week would go off the chart. Thanks for everyones input. Tom Gunderson 1957, 1500 MGA rst. From qualitas.jack at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 04:54:20 2010 From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 05:54:20 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Oil Weight in the NW Message-ID: My son has our MGC in Portland. We usually have the oil changed every year before the ABFM. This year the shop put in 30W. I have never heard of that before, and the mechanic said it that was what was used in the NW where the temp stays above freezing. No report of ZDDP in the oil. Comments from the NW? Thanks, Jack From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Aug 26 05:24:19 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:24:19 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: <20100826062607.EVQ61210@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: 10W/30 sounds too thin to me, depending on your location. FWIW for the MGB that grade is quoted for ambient temps between 10C/50F and -20C/-5F. For temps above that it should be 10W/40 minimum, or 10W/50 or 20W/50. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- >I was asking about oil because I changed the oil last week. My oil reads >40 - 50 while driving at about 50 mph. Idle drops it to near 20. I am using >10w30 Castroil. From ptrmgb at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 07:21:34 2010 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:21:34 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <20100826062607.EVQ61210@ms1.comporium.net> References: <20100826062607.EVQ61210@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com> I'd say 10W30 is too thin. 20W40 at least. Probably 20W50. On Aug 26, 2010, at 5:26 AM, wrote: > I was asking about oil because I changed the oil last week. My oil reads 40 - 50 while driving at about 50 mph. Idle drops it to near 20. I am using 10w30 Castroil. > After I replaced the water pump, cleaned the radiator, new main hoses and installed a 160 thermostat. The temp seems to be running correct. Around 190. The temp gauge last week would go off the chart. Thanks for everyones input. > Tom Gunderson > 1957, 1500 MGA rst. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From david_breneman at yahoo.com Thu Aug 26 08:17:23 2010 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Oil Weight in the NW In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <64921.54341.qm@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 8/26/10, Jack Feldman wrote: > My son has our MGC in Portland. We > usually have the oil changed every year > before the ABFM. This year the shop put in 30W. I have > never heard of that > before, and the mechanic said it that was what was used in > the NW where the temp stays above freezing. I had the engine in my MGA (a 5-main MGB engine installed by the previous owner) rebuilt 2002. At the recommendation of the mechanic, I've been running 30W in it since and it's been just fine. His contention is that whereas newer engines are designed for variable-viscosity oil, older engines are not, and there's little to be gained from using it if you're not racing. I live on the Kitsap Peninsula, and I don't drive the car in winter except on an occasional sunny day. From palte at gmx.net Thu Aug 26 11:05:47 2010 From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:05:47 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com> References: <20100826062607.EVQ61210@ms1.comporium.net> <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100826170547.53310@gmx.net> > I'd say 10W30 is too thin. 20W40 at least. Probably 20W50. > > Yeah, 20W50 is what I've been using over the last decades for my LBCs. An now, I find that, over here, it i gettin more and more difficult to get that grade.... Bert Holland -- GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 fC Message-ID: Try Valvoline VR-1 20W50. It has the required ZDDP Gene 80 B On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:21:34 -0500 Paul Root wrote: > I'd say 10W30 is too thin. 20W40 at least. Probably > 20W50. > > On Aug 26, 2010, at 5:26 AM, wrote: > > > I was asking about oil because I changed the oil last > week. My oil reads 40 > - 50 while driving at about 50 mph. Idle drops it to near > 20. I am using 10w30 > Castroil. > > After I replaced the water pump, cleaned the radiator, > new main hoses and > installed a 160 thermostat. The temp seems to be running > correct. Around 190. > The temp gauge last week would go off the chart. Thanks > for everyones input. > > Tom Gunderson > > 1957, 1500 MGA rst. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ From ccrobins at ktc.com Thu Aug 26 16:12:25 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:12:25 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <3C3277BF9FCE4218B6FA68A9205BFFE5@paul> References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com><005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> <4C74B5D6.9080808@ktc.com> <03F63677B97F42168BF6E5745A077C13@paul> <4C75E0E3.9010500@ktc.com> <03711BB34F3F41A5B5754BB849BC19DB@paul> <4C7668B1.3090703@ktc.com> <3C3277BF9FCE4218B6FA68A9205BFFE5@paul> Message-ID: <4C76E6C9.4060703@ktc.com> Paul, You're getting punitive. Nor do I feel the need to convince you that I'm right. Further discussion is a waste of bandwidth. Have a nice day, CR From richard.ewald at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 17:13:21 2010 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:13:21 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Brake failure - What caused it? In-Reply-To: <4C76E6C9.4060703@ktc.com> References: <8CD1048569B231C-1AB8-4AA92@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <4C73C62F.6090006@ktc.com> <005501cb43fa$a3cd3210$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> <4C74B5D6.9080808@ktc.com> <03F63677B97F42168BF6E5745A077C13@paul> <4C75E0E3.9010500@ktc.com> <03711BB34F3F41A5B5754BB849BC19DB@paul> <4C7668B1.3090703@ktc.com> <3C3277BF9FCE4218B6FA68A9205BFFE5@paul> <4C76E6C9.4060703@ktc.com> Message-ID: While Paul is an opinionated SOB (and I mean that in a nice way) In this he is 100% correct. Unless the brake fluid banditio came by and stole some brake fluid out of your rear brake circuit, it would appear that you have a leak. Also why did the front circuit fail? A bad RPV doesn't explain that. On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: > Paul, You're getting punitive. Nor do I feel the need to convince you that > I'm right. Further discussion is a waste of bandwidth. > > Have a nice day, > > CR > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com From rocknatural at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 17:20:32 2010 From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:20:32 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: References: <004801cb4486$54ca94a0$6401a8c0@normoffice> Message-ID: <4C76F6C0.4090102@gmail.com> Paul Hunt wrote: > The people who have been having trouble with Toyotas over the last > year or so have almost certainly been driving automatics for many > years before. The Toyota problem seems to be far more serious, > although precisely what still doesn't seem to be clear. The most > recent thing I have read on the subject is that Toyota claim from the > analysis of a number of 'black boxes' recovered from crashed cars (!), > that the drivers didn't brake at all. That beggars belief, and even > the company putting it out as a cause is almost believable, in that > they expect us to believe it. Either that, or the human race is > getting far more stupid than ever I had believed. I have known of a number of incidents where the driver was riding with his right foot lightly resting on the brake pedal, while either being towed on a rope or gliding down a hill. When an emergency appeared, the driver did what he would normally do, which is to move the foot one pedal to the left and hit the "brake," which in this case was the clutch. -Rocky Frisco -- From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 26 19:40:18 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:40:18 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] '74 MGBGT for sale, Santa Cruz mountains In-Reply-To: <3B831699-F37C-4507-95EB-5E86A2571918@red4est.com> Message-ID: Too bad it's white... Otherwise I might have had a buyer. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/25/10 9:46 PM, Larry Colen at lrc at red4est.com wrote: > Last weekend I was checking out a 1960 Land Rover at the local Foster's > Freeze. A friend of the owner is trying to sell his wife's MGBGT, she injured > her knee and can't drive a clutch any more. > > Brian sent me a couple of pictures and it looks very clean, but I won't clog > the list serve with the bandwidth of forwarding the pictures, so email him for > more details. I've cc'd him on the list. > > Here are the details: > > 1974 MGB-GT > White with new tan leather interior, brown carpets, new windshield, good > tires, new master cylinder, new side moldings, new battery and many more > replaced items. Kept in garage and driven on weekends. Asking $4500 or > best offer. Call Brian 831-295-4447 or email hlacey at cruzio.com > > -- > Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com sent from i4est From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 26 19:43:32 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:43:32 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I remember reading an analysis of the Audi "unintended acceleration" incidents several years back, and it pretty much determined they were all cases of mistaken application of the throttle instead of the brake. Apparently people panic and just press harder, instead of trying different pedals. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/26/10 1:02 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > The people who have been having trouble with Toyotas over the last year or > so have almost certainly been driving automatics for many years before. The > Toyota problem seems to be far more serious, although precisely what still > doesn't seem to be clear. The most recent thing I have read on the subject > is that Toyota claim from the analysis of a number of 'black boxes' > recovered from crashed cars (!), that the drivers didn't brake at all. That > beggars belief, and even the company putting it out as a cause is almost > believable, in that they expect us to believe it. Either that, or the human > race is getting far more stupid than ever I had believed. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> ... Makes sense since you don't have to >> move your foot & leg over. (And, in the past year more than a few Toyota >> drivers have had a major problem doing that. From ptrmgb at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 20:26:47 2010 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:26:47 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0737676B-0195-4650-9462-68C559AF4891@gmail.com> I remember the US study danced around the cause. The Canadian study just flat out said "driver error". On Aug 26, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Max Heim wrote: > I remember reading an analysis of the Audi "unintended acceleration" > incidents several years back, and it pretty much determined they were all > cases of mistaken application of the throttle instead of the brake. > Apparently people panic and just press harder, instead of trying different > pedals. > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > on 8/26/10 1:02 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > >> The people who have been having trouble with Toyotas over the last year or >> so have almost certainly been driving automatics for many years before. The >> Toyota problem seems to be far more serious, although precisely what still >> doesn't seem to be clear. The most recent thing I have read on the subject >> is that Toyota claim from the analysis of a number of 'black boxes' >> recovered from crashed cars (!), that the drivers didn't brake at all. That >> beggars belief, and even the company putting it out as a cause is almost >> believable, in that they expect us to believe it. Either that, or the human >> race is getting far more stupid than ever I had believed. >> >> PaulH. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> ... Makes sense since you don't have to >>> move your foot & leg over. (And, in the past year more than a few Toyota >>> drivers have had a major problem doing that. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From david_breneman at yahoo.com Thu Aug 26 21:06:22 2010 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <371094.62119.qm@web112120.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> -- On Thu, 8/26/10, Max Heim wrote: > I remember reading an analysis of the > Audi "unintended acceleration" > incidents several years back, and it pretty much determined > they were all > cases of mistaken application of the throttle instead of > the brake. > Apparently people panic and just press harder, instead of > trying different pedals. That's exactly it. The whole Toyota scandal, like the pickup truck explosive gas tanks (helped on by a skyrocket tied to the truck,) was just a case of a few idiots egged on by a story-hungry press. So far, last time I've heard, exactly *ONE* case of Toyota unintended exceleration has been tied to anything other than driver error -- or driver fraud. From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 22:33:02 2010 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:33:02 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: References: <004801cb4486$54ca94a0$6401a8c0@normoffice> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > The most recent thing I have read on the subject > is that Toyota claim from the analysis of a number of 'black boxes' > recovered from crashed cars (!), that the drivers didn't brake at all. That > beggars belief, and even the company putting it out as a cause is almost > believable, in that they expect us to believe it. As I understand it, there is precisely ONE laptop that runs some closed source software from Toyota and interrogates the black boxes. And yet, people apparently think that laptop gives a definitive answer. There is also the question that, if one assumes that the on-board computers have a fault, why would one assume that the same computers would record the unintended acceleration? What I don't understand is why is there no analysis of the braking systems? If people had been standing on the brakes while the cars continue to accelerate, the brake pads would show signs of being overheated. Finally, there was at least once case where a policeman followed a car that the driver claimed was out of control. The Priuses cut the engine if the brake pedal is depressed, so the driver can't fake unintended acceleration. Surely the policeman would have noticed the lack of brake lights? Simon From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Aug 27 01:51:26 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:51:26 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: <20100826062607.EVQ61210@ms1.comporium.net><35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com> <20100826170547.53310@gmx.net> Message-ID: Castrol GTX for example stopped 20W/50 in the UK many years ago - they made it 15W/50 instead which was an improvement. Then a few years ago they changed that to 15W/40, which showed up as lower oil pressure on my V8 but not the roadster. You can still get 20W/50 here, but only from the lesser names and specialist places. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Yeah, 20W50 is what I've been using over the last decades for my LBCs. > > An now, I find that, over here, it i gettin more and more difficult to > get that grade.... From mg_garage at comcast.net Fri Aug 27 04:21:01 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 06:21:01 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C77918D.8020906@comcast.net> I believe that pedal spacing and accelerator pedal height has much to do with it. I sometimes push on my accelerator on my A4 when I am braking. I tend to use the edge of the brake pedal and my foot can also hit the accelerator. On the plus side, heel/toeing is real easy on the Audi, unlike on the MGs. Gordie '62 MGA '67 BGT couple of Audis Max Heim wrote: > I remember reading an analysis of the Audi "unintended acceleration" > incidents several years back, and it pretty much determined they were all > cases of mistaken application of the throttle instead of the brake. > Apparently people panic and just press harder, instead of trying different > pedals. > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > on 8/26/10 1:02 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > > >> The people who have been having trouble with Toyotas over the last year or >> so have almost certainly been driving automatics for many years before. The >> Toyota problem seems to be far more serious, although precisely what still >> doesn't seem to be clear. The most recent thing I have read on the subject >> is that Toyota claim from the analysis of a number of 'black boxes' >> recovered from crashed cars (!), that the drivers didn't brake at all. That >> beggars belief, and even the company putting it out as a cause is almost >> believable, in that they expect us to believe it. Either that, or the human >> race is getting far more stupid than ever I had believed. >> >> PaulH. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> ... Makes sense since you don't have to >>> move your foot& leg over. (And, in the past year more than a few Toyota >>> drivers have had a major problem doing that. >>> > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg_garage at comcast.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5400 (20100826) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com From redscirocco at hotmail.com Fri Aug 27 06:38:11 2010 From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:38:11 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: References: <004801cb4486$54ca94a0$6401a8c0@normoffice>, Message-ID: "Almost believable" is right, but a lot of people seem to believe it. It would be a lot more believable if the "black boxes" could tell us why all these bad drivers chose to buy Toyotas. Why aren't other brands suffering from a rash of sudden-idiocy-induced unintended accelleration? Why is it that people who cannot operate two pedals are attracted to one brand? Mike Eldred > From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk > To: twobees at sprynet.com; mgs at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:02:53 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking > > The people who have been having trouble with Toyotas over the last year or > so have almost certainly been driving automatics for many years before. The > Toyota problem seems to be far more serious, although precisely what still > doesn't seem to be clear. The most recent thing I have read on the subject > is that Toyota claim from the analysis of a number of 'black boxes' > recovered from crashed cars (!), that the drivers didn't brake at all. That > beggars belief, and even the company putting it out as a cause is almost > believable, in that they expect us to believe it. Either that, or the human > race is getting far more stupid than ever I had believed. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > ... Makes sense since you don't have to > > move your foot & leg over. (And, in the past year more than a few Toyota > > drivers have had a major problem doing that. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Fri Aug 27 07:10:21 2010 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 06:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: References: <004801cb4486$54ca94a0$6401a8c0@normoffice>, Message-ID: <516962.437.qm@web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> When this happened to Audi, I recall that it was somewhat unique due to the positioning of the gas and brake pedals - they were not necessarily on the same plane and the brake pedals were basically the same size and position as a manual-equipped car. They changed that and put the shift interlock in as well (need to step on the brake to move the lever out of Park). In Toyota's case, they have insisted all along that there was nothing wrong with the software, but they also have made a change to that software to ensure that the engine power is cut when the brakes are fully applied. As we know, in 99% of cars, the brakes override the engine - that is, stomping on the brakes WILL bring the car to a halt even if the engine is at full power. But usually, you can only do this once.... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Mike Eldred To: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk; mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 8:38:11 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking "Almost believable" is right, but a lot of people seem to believe it. It would be a lot more believable if the "black boxes" could tell us why all these bad drivers chose to buy Toyotas. Why aren't other brands suffering from a rash of sudden-idiocy-induced unintended accelleration? Why is it that people who cannot operate two pedals are attracted to one brand? Mike Eldred > From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk > To: twobees at sprynet.com; mgs at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:02:53 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking > > The people who have been having trouble with Toyotas over the last year or > so have almost certainly been driving automatics for many years before. The > Toyota problem seems to be far more serious, although precisely what still > doesn't seem to be clear. The most recent thing I have read on the subject > is that Toyota claim from the analysis of a number of 'black boxes' > recovered from crashed cars (!), that the drivers didn't brake at all. That > beggars belief, and even the company putting it out as a cause is almost > believable, in that they expect us to believe it. Either that, or the human > race is getting far more stupid than ever I had believed. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > ... Makes sense since you don't have to > > move your foot & leg over. (And, in the past year more than a few Toyota > > drivers have had a major problem doing that. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Fri Aug 27 08:10:43 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:10:43 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: References: <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353D0E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Where does one buy this VR-1 oil? I am already having trouble finding plain old 20W50. I usually buy oil at Walmart due to price but it looks like they are evolving to mostly 5w30 and 10w30, even the 10W40 supply is dwindling. But I live in a fairly small city, not much selection. However I am in a big metropolis (Portland, Oregon) today and part of tomorrow so there is likely a store somewhere nearby, maybe even those chains I hear about like Autozone. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Eugene Balinski Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:33 PM To: Paul Root; thgun at comporium.net Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL Try Valvoline VR-1 20W50. It has the required ZDDP Gene 80 B From barrie at look.ca Fri Aug 27 08:28:32 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:28:32 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: References: <004801cb4486$54ca94a0$6401a8c0@normoffice> Message-ID: There is a definite phenomena related to the masses.and that is they pick up and go with a trend. You just have to look at the stupid trend to buy bottled water despite it being less regulated than tap water from disciplined municipalities, or the equally stupid trend to get permanent tattoos, to realise that the Toyota situation is another trend. I have to confess I have been guilty of hitting the wrong pedal. Fortunately being an experienced and "conscious" driver I recognise my mistake. But someone not in petrol-head" mode may not recognise the mistake. At 08:38 AM 8/27/2010, Mike Eldred wrote: >"Almost believable" is right, but a lot of people seem to believe it. It >would be a lot more believable if the "black boxes" could tell us why all >these bad drivers chose to buy Toyotas. Why aren't other brands suffering >from a rash of sudden-idiocy-induced unintended accelleration? Why is it that >people who cannot operate two pedals are attracted to one brand? > >Mike Eldred > > > > From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk > > To: twobees at sprynet.com; mgs at autox.team.net > > Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:02:53 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking > > > > The people who have been having trouble with Toyotas over the last year or > > so have almost certainly been driving automatics for many years before. The > > Toyota problem seems to be far more serious, although precisely what still > > doesn't seem to be clear. The most recent thing I have read on the subject > > is that Toyota claim from the analysis of a number of 'black boxes' > > recovered from crashed cars (!), that the drivers didn't brake at all. That > > beggars belief, and even the company putting it out as a cause is almost > > believable, in that they expect us to believe it. Either that, or the human > > race is getting far more stupid than ever I had believed. > > > > PaulH. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > ... Makes sense since you don't have to > > > move your foot & leg over. (And, in the past year more than a few Toyota > > > drivers have had a major problem doing that. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca Regards Barrie (705) 721-9060 From mgrick at mgcars.org.uk Fri Aug 27 08:38:49 2010 From: mgrick at mgcars.org.uk (Rick Brown) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:38:49 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353D0E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353D0E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: Valvoline Racing oil can be found at Advance Auto - usually mix one VR-1 with the balance castrol 20-50. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Councill, David" To: "Eugene Balinski" Cc: Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:10 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > Where does one buy this VR-1 oil? I am already having trouble finding > plain old 20W50. I usually buy oil at Walmart due to price but it looks > like they are evolving to mostly 5w30 and 10w30, even the 10W40 supply > is dwindling. But I live in a fairly small city, not much selection. > However I am in a big metropolis (Portland, Oregon) today and part of > tomorrow so there is likely a store somewhere nearby, maybe even those > chains I hear about like Autozone. > > David Councill > 64 B > 67 BGT > 72 B > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Eugene Balinski > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:33 PM > To: Paul Root; thgun at comporium.net > Cc: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > > Try Valvoline VR-1 20W50. It has the required ZDDP > > > Gene > > 80 B > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgrick at mgcars.org.uk From redscirocco at hotmail.com Fri Aug 27 09:23:25 2010 From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:23:25 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: References: <004801cb4486$54ca94a0$6401a8c0@normoffice>, , , Message-ID: Even if I buy that it's an "everyone else is doing it" kind of phenomenon, it still doesn't explain why Toyota drivers are prone to "falsely" blaming the auto manufacturer, while drivers of, say , Ford, Hyundai, Volkswagen, Fiat, Nissan, etc., are not. Does it mean there is something different about Toyota drivers, or does it mean there's something different about Toyota cars? > Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:28:32 -0400 > To: redscirocco at hotmail.com; paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk; mgs at autox.team.net > From: barrie at look.ca > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking > > > There is a definite phenomena related to the masses.and that is they > pick up and go with a trend. You just have to look at the stupid > trend to buy bottled water despite it being less regulated than tap > water from disciplined municipalities, or the equally stupid trend to > get permanent tattoos, to realise that the Toyota situation is > another trend. I have to confess I have been guilty of hitting the > wrong pedal. Fortunately being an experienced and "conscious" > driver I recognise my mistake. But someone not in petrol-head" mode > may not recognise the mistake. > > At 08:38 AM 8/27/2010, Mike Eldred wrote: > >"Almost believable" is right, but a lot of people seem to believe it. It > >would be a lot more believable if the "black boxes" could tell us why all > >these bad drivers chose to buy Toyotas. Why aren't other brands suffering > >from a rash of sudden-idiocy-induced unintended accelleration? Why is it that > >people who cannot operate two pedals are attracted to one brand? > > > >Mike Eldred > > > > > > > From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk > > > To: twobees at sprynet.com; mgs at autox.team.net > > > Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:02:53 +0100 > > > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking > > > > > > The people who have been having trouble with Toyotas over the last year or > > > so have almost certainly been driving automatics for many years before. The > > > Toyota problem seems to be far more serious, although precisely what still > > > doesn't seem to be clear. The most recent thing I have read on the subject > > > is that Toyota claim from the analysis of a number of 'black boxes' > > > recovered from crashed cars (!), that the drivers didn't brake at all. That > > > beggars belief, and even the company putting it out as a cause is almost > > > believable, in that they expect us to believe it. Either that, or the human > > > race is getting far more stupid than ever I had believed. > > > > > > PaulH. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > ... Makes sense since you don't have to > > > > move your foot & leg over. (And, in the past year more than a few Toyota > > > > drivers have had a major problem doing that. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > > Unsubscribe: > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Mgs at autox.team.net > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Suggested annual donation $12.75 > >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca > > Regards > > Barrie > (705) 721-9060 From ptrmgb at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 09:30:10 2010 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:30:10 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: References: <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353D0E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: Why? On Aug 27, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Rick Brown wrote: > Valvoline Racing oil can be found at Advance Auto - usually mix one VR-1 with the balance castrol 20-50. > > Rick From mgrick at mgcars.org.uk Fri Aug 27 10:16:30 2010 From: mgrick at mgcars.org.uk (Rick Brown) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:16:30 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: References: <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353D0E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <515E91D8754344919A4355F70C7AC351@RickPC> Cost of the VR1 compared to the Castrol - I have been told that the one bottle of VR1 should give enough zinc protection. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Root" To: "Rick Brown" Cc: Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:30 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL Why? On Aug 27, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Rick Brown wrote: > Valvoline Racing oil can be found at Advance Auto - usually mix one VR-1 > with the balance castrol 20-50. > > Rick From riverside at southslope.net Fri Aug 27 10:32:46 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:32:46 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com><4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353D0E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> <515E91D8754344919A4355F70C7AC351@RickPC> Message-ID: <001a01cb4605$7c2daca0$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> VR1 has 1200 ppm of zddp according to their material data sheet. This is the amount i have seen recommended for flat tappet engines if all makes. Tough to bring up the average of a fill of oil if your best is at the recommended level. Does anyone know how much ZDDP there is in GTX? art de armond ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Brown" To: Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > Cost of the VR1 compared to the Castrol - I have been told that the one > bottle of VR1 should give enough zinc protection. > > Rick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Root" > To: "Rick Brown" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:30 > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > > > Why? > > On Aug 27, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Rick Brown wrote: > >> Valvoline Racing oil can be found at Advance Auto - usually mix one VR-1 >> with the balance castrol 20-50. >> >> Rick > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net From david_breneman at yahoo.com Fri Aug 27 11:44:41 2010 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <184732.58359.qm@web112104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 8/27/10, Mike Eldred wrote: > Even if I buy that it's an "everyone > else is doing it" kind of phenomenon, it > still doesn't explain why Toyota drivers are prone to > "falsely" blaming the > auto manufacturer, while drivers of, say , Ford, Hyundai, > Volkswagen, Fiat, Nissan, etc., are not. It's just like the Audi issue from 20-some years ago. It's happening to everyone because it's happening to everyone. Part of it is herd mentality - blame the car, not the driver (ie, "It can't be MY mistake - everyone is having this problem!"). Part is get-rich-quick opportunists hoping to make some money. Part is a panic created by the press. It becomes a life unto itself. In another 20 years, it will be another make of car, and the process will start all over again. It just happened to reach critical mass this year with this car. From v.navarrette at comcast.net Fri Aug 27 13:05:38 2010 From: v.navarrette at comcast.net (Vance Navarrette) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:05:38 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Paul: To get that large a viscosity range, the manufacturer adds more viscositizer. Viscositizer has inferior lubricating properties compared to the base stock, so the wider the viscosity range, the worse the lubricating properties. Consumer reports recommended a viscosity range no greater than 25, and stated that a range of 20 was to be preferred. This was many years ago, and I am sure that technology has improved since then. Never the less, I stick to 10W/30. This is within the range of recommended viscosities in the owners manual (as I recall, but I am bit fuzzy on that point). The lighter oils circulate more quickly on startup when most of the wear occurs. Once you have oil circulating the wear drops sharply, to the point where for the average motorist the lighter viscosities will result in improved engine life even though the ultimate film shear strength of the lower vis oils is inferior. Trust me, the thinking that you need higher oil pressure at high RPMs is just plain obsolete. Higher oil pressure reduces fuel economy because the oil pump works harder to pump the oil, and it gives no wear benefit. The lighter vis oils reduce wear AND improve economy - hence they are the recommended oils for modern engines. Us old timers with oil pressure gauges get twitchy when the oil pressure is not at 75PSI, so we tend to favor the higher weight oils, to the detriment of our motors. Vance -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Paul Hunt Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 12:51 AM To: Bert Palte; mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL Castrol GTX for example stopped 20W/50 in the UK many years ago - they made it 15W/50 instead which was an improvement. Then a few years ago they changed that to 15W/40, which showed up as lower oil pressure on my V8 but not the roadster. You can still get 20W/50 here, but only from the lesser names and specialist places. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Yeah, 20W50 is what I've been using over the last decades for my LBCs. > > An now, I find that, over here, it i gettin more and more difficult to > get that grade.... From v.navarrette at comcast.net Fri Aug 27 13:07:42 2010 From: v.navarrette at comcast.net (Vance Navarrette) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:07:42 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <183793959D724876A4A88EC65B08CE0D@HOMEBREW1> Uhh... Hasn't this gotten a bit off topic? Vance -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mike Eldred Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:23 AM To: barrie at look.ca; mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking Even if I buy that it's an "everyone else is doing it" kind of phenomenon, it still doesn't explain why Toyota drivers are prone to "falsely" blaming the auto manufacturer, while drivers of, say , Ford, Hyundai, Volkswagen, Fiat, Nissan, etc., are not. Does it mean there is something different about Toyota drivers, or does it mean there's something different about Toyota cars? From riverside at southslope.net Fri Aug 27 13:23:35 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:23:35 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: Message-ID: <005201cb461d$58a86d20$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Most, but not all piston engines of our size like 10 lbs of oil pressure per 1000rpm. I do not like to go over 15 'cause we're just wasting power squeezing the crap out of the oil. Using heavy oil to compensate for worn or improperly sized bearings is a utilitarian band aid . art de armond ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Navarrette" To: "'Paul Hunt'" ; Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > Paul: > > To get that large a viscosity range, the manufacturer adds more > viscositizer. Viscositizer has inferior lubricating properties compared > to the base stock, so the wider the viscosity range, the worse the > lubricating properties. > Consumer reports recommended a viscosity range no greater than > 25, and stated that a range of 20 was to be preferred. This was many > years ago, and I am sure that technology has improved since then. Never > the less, I stick to 10W/30. This is within the range of recommended > viscosities in the owners manual (as I recall, but I am bit fuzzy on > that point). > The lighter oils circulate more quickly on startup when most of > the wear occurs. Once you have oil circulating the wear drops sharply, > to the point where for the average motorist the lighter viscosities will > result in improved engine life even though the ultimate film shear > strength of the lower vis oils is inferior. > Trust me, the thinking that you need higher oil pressure at high > RPMs is just plain obsolete. Higher oil pressure reduces fuel economy > because the oil pump works harder to pump the oil, and it gives no wear > benefit. The lighter vis oils reduce wear AND improve economy - hence > they are the recommended oils for modern engines. > Us old timers with oil pressure gauges get twitchy when the oil > pressure is not at 75PSI, so we tend to favor the higher weight oils, to > the detriment of our motors. > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Paul Hunt > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 12:51 AM > To: Bert Palte; mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > > > Castrol GTX for example stopped 20W/50 in the UK many years ago - they > made > it 15W/50 instead which was an improvement. Then a few years ago they > changed that to 15W/40, which showed up as lower oil pressure on my V8 > but > not the roadster. You can still get 20W/50 here, but only from the > lesser > names and specialist places. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Yeah, 20W50 is what I've been using over the last decades for my LBCs. >> >> An now, I find that, over here, it i gettin more and more difficult > to >> get that grade.... > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 27 16:40:00 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:40:00 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <001a01cb4605$7c2daca0$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: It would help if there were labeling requirements for motor oil, like there are for candy bars, etc. Mostly we are left guessing. The labels just make unsubstantiated claims about improved gas mileage and reduced wear. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/27/10 9:32 AM, riverside at riverside at southslope.net wrote: > VR1 has 1200 ppm of zddp according to their material data sheet. > This is the amount i have seen recommended for flat tappet engines > if all makes. Tough to bring up the average of a fill of oil if your > best is at the recommended level. Does anyone know how much > ZDDP there is in GTX? > > art de armond > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Brown" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > > >> Cost of the VR1 compared to the Castrol - I have been told that the one >> bottle of VR1 should give enough zinc protection. >> >> Rick >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul Root" >> To: "Rick Brown" >> Cc: >> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:30 >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL >> >> >> Why? >> >> On Aug 27, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Rick Brown wrote: >> >>> Valvoline Racing oil can be found at Advance Auto - usually mix one VR-1 >>> with the balance castrol 20-50. >>> >>> Rick From eugeneb at nni.com Fri Aug 27 21:21:31 2010 From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353D0E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: NAPA has VR-1. So does my local auto parts jobber (Consumers Auto Parts). If they do not have it, most will order it. While you are at NAPA, get a new oil filter (Napa Gold)... Safety Fast, Gene 80 B On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:10:43 -0600 "Councill, David" wrote: > Where does one buy this VR-1 oil? I am already having > trouble finding > plain old 20W50. I usually buy oil at Walmart due to > price but it looks > like they are evolving to mostly 5w30 and 10w30, even the > 10W40 supply > is dwindling. But I live in a fairly small city, not much > selection. > However I am in a big metropolis (Portland, Oregon) today > and part of > tomorrow so there is likely a store somewhere nearby, > maybe even those > chains I hear about like Autozone. > > David Councill > 64 B > 67 BGT > 72 B > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Eugene Balinski > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:33 PM > To: Paul Root; thgun at comporium.net > Cc: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > > Try Valvoline VR-1 20W50. It has the required ZDDP > > > Gene > > 80 B --------------------------------------------------------------------- Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ From eugeneb at nni.com Fri Aug 27 21:30:06 2010 From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:30:06 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why the mix ? VR-1 comes in 2 versions - one for the street (with all of the usual industry qualifications) and a pure racing version. I use the street version in the B. No real need to mix Gene 80 B On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:38:49 -0400 "Rick Brown" wrote: > Valvoline Racing oil can be found at Advance Auto - > usually mix one VR-1 with the balance castrol 20-50. > > Rick > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Councill, David" > > To: "Eugene Balinski" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:10 > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > > > > Where does one buy this VR-1 oil? I am already having > trouble finding > > plain old 20W50. I usually buy oil at Walmart due to > price but it looks > > like they are evolving to mostly 5w30 and 10w30, even > the 10W40 supply > > is dwindling. But I live in a fairly small city, not > much selection. > > However I am in a big metropolis (Portland, Oregon) > today and part of > > tomorrow so there is likely a store somewhere nearby, > maybe even those > > chains I hear about like Autozone. > > > > David Councill > > 64 B > > 67 BGT > > 72 B > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > > Behalf Of Eugene Balinski > > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:33 PM > > To: Paul Root; thgun at comporium.net > > Cc: mgs at autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > > > > Try Valvoline VR-1 20W50. It has the required ZDDP > > > > > > Gene > > > > 80 B > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgrick at mgcars.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ From riverside at southslope.net Fri Aug 27 22:23:19 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:23:19 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: Message-ID: <00a501cb4668$be8d1050$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp and is labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the high milage additives of the street version. It is meant to be changed after every race, or about every five hundred or so miles. This is about the milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in a driving season in a moderate climate area. Ron S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene Balinski" To: "Rick Brown" ; Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > Why the mix ? VR-1 comes in 2 versions - one for the > street (with all of the usual industry qualifications) and > a pure racing version. > > I use the street version in the B. No real need to mix > > Gene 80 B > > On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:38:49 -0400 > "Rick Brown" wrote: >> Valvoline Racing oil can be found at Advance Auto - >> usually mix one VR-1 with the balance castrol 20-50. >> >> Rick >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Councill, David" >> >> To: "Eugene Balinski" >> Cc: >> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:10 >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL >> >> >> > Where does one buy this VR-1 oil? I am already having >> trouble finding >> > plain old 20W50. I usually buy oil at Walmart due to >> price but it looks >> > like they are evolving to mostly 5w30 and 10w30, even >> the 10W40 supply >> > is dwindling. But I live in a fairly small city, not >> much selection. >> > However I am in a big metropolis (Portland, Oregon) >> today and part of >> > tomorrow so there is likely a store somewhere nearby, >> maybe even those >> > chains I hear about like Autozone. >> > >> > David Councill >> > 64 B >> > 67 BGT >> > 72 B >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net >> [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On >> > Behalf Of Eugene Balinski >> > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:33 PM >> > To: Paul Root; thgun at comporium.net >> > Cc: mgs at autox.team.net >> > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL >> > >> > Try Valvoline VR-1 20W50. It has the required ZDDP >> > >> > >> > Gene >> > >> > 80 B >> > _______________________________________________ >> > >> > Mgs at autox.team.net >> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> > Unsubscribe: >> > >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgrick at mgcars.org.uk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. > http://www.nni.com/ > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net From don at napanet.net Fri Aug 27 23:11:09 2010 From: don at napanet.net (don) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 22:11:09 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Secret to longevity Message-ID: <20100828051118.294EBAE8AB@mail.dsl.napanet.net> A friend of mine that lives in Vancouver sent me this today, an inspiring article about a 92-year old British car nut in Vancouver. His thing is Triumphs, but I thought MG enthusiasts would enjoy reading it too. Secret to longevity: classic car restoration, says Spitfire Dick. At 92, Dick Frankish shows no sign of slowing down and remains one of the world's leading authorities on restoration. Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/cars/Secret+longevity+classic+restoration+says+Spitfire+Dick/3449074/story.html Don Scott Calistoga CA USA 1966 TR4A 1962 MGA Mk 2 1973 MGB GT (selling) 1965 MGB (seeking) Misc. Japanese cars From barneymg at mgaguru.com Sat Aug 28 01:35:40 2010 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 02:35:40 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <00a501cb4668$be8d1050$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <00a501cb4668$be8d1050$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: <754018.83875.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My MGA fairly often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 miles and counting. So far I do not worry about ZDDP, except during a new cam break in period. I run NAPA 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in winter. Current engine has 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the bottom end apart. Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude http://MGAguru.com At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( wrote: >The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp >and is labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the high >milage additives of the street version. It is meant to be changed >after every race, or about every five hundred or so miles. This is >about the milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in a driving >season in a moderate climate area. >.... From paul at ece.rochester.edu Sat Aug 28 08:54:45 2010 From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 10:54:45 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <754018.83875.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <00a501cb4668$be8d1050$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> <754018.83875.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm with Barney, why all of these exotic oils and lube mixes??? Have been using NAPA 20-50 too and with 100,000 + and in 2 cars , regular changes all is just fine. Guess there is a need to spend $$ . paul >Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My MGA fairly >often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 miles and counting. >So far I do not worry about ZDDP, except during a new cam break in >period. I run NAPA 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in winter. Current >engine has 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the bottom end >apart. > >Barney Gaylord >1958 MGA with an attitude >http://MGAguru.com > > >At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( wrote: >>The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp >>and is labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the high >>milage additives of the street version. It is meant to be changed >>after every race, or about every five hundred or so miles. This is >>about the milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in a driving >>season in a moderate climate area. >>.... ___ -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul at ece.rochester.edu From ptrmgb at gmail.com Sat Aug 28 09:38:24 2010 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 10:38:24 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: References: <00a501cb4668$be8d1050$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> <754018.83875.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The NAPA oil is just Valvoline. I use it's High Milage formula too, or regular Valvoline if it's on sale. And if I only drove my car 500 miles a year, I'd sell it. I was upset that I only got 2000 last year. And this year, the car sat idle when I was too busy to work on it. I'm sitting at 12x,xxx miles now. I bought it at 84,xxx, 9 years ago. It may not be pretty, but the engine hums. On Aug 28, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Paul Osborne wrote: > I'm with Barney, why all of these exotic oils and lube mixes??? Have been using NAPA 20-50 too and with 100,000 + and in 2 cars , regular changes all is just fine. Guess there is a need to spend $$ . > paul > > >> Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My MGA fairly often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 miles and counting. So far I do not worry about ZDDP, except during a new cam break in period. I run NAPA 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in winter. Current engine has 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the bottom end apart. >> >> Barney Gaylord >> 1958 MGA with an attitude >> http://MGAguru.com >> >> >> At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( wrote: >>> The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp and is labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the high milage additives of the street version. It is meant to be changed after every race, or about every five hundred or so miles. This is about the milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in a driving season in a moderate climate area. >>> .... > ___ > > -- > Paul Osborne > University of Rochester > Engineering & Technical Services > Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus > Rochester, New York 14627 > 585-275-5226 > paul at ece.rochester.edu > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 28 15:30:05 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 14:30:05 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <754018.83875.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's not the bottom end that suffers, it's the cam and lifters. When my B motor had approximately 70-80K miles the cam lobes were worn down to nubs, and the lifters were spalled all to pieces. I didn't do the initial breakin -- it supposedly had under 10,000 miles when I installed it (I did pull a main cap at the time and the bearings looked brand new). While I have had it it it has used 20W50 Castrol. But over that period Castrol reduced the amount of ZDDP several times. Since I put in the new cam I have been adding STP with every oil change, since I can't find a motor oil with a documented adequate level of zinc. I won't run racing oil because it's a year-round daily driver (over 210K so far), not a 500 mile/year driveway queen. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/28/10 12:35 AM, Barney Gaylord at barneymg at mgaguru.com wrote: > Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My MGA fairly > often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 miles and > counting. So far I do not worry about ZDDP, except during a new cam > break in period. I run NAPA 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in > winter. Current engine has 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the > bottom end apart. > > Barney Gaylord > 1958 MGA with an attitude > http://MGAguru.com > > > At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( wrote: >> The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp >> and is labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the high >> milage additives of the street version. It is meant to be changed >> after every race, or about every five hundred or so miles. This is >> about the milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in a driving >> season in a moderate climate area. >> .... From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Sat Aug 28 20:25:44 2010 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 19:25:44 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: References: <754018.83875.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Amsoil sell a 100% synthetic oil which claims a "high zinc formula" which they recommend for flat tappet engines. Simon On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Max Heim wrote: > It's not the bottom end that suffers, it's the cam and lifters. > > When my B motor had approximately 70-80K miles the cam lobes were worn down > to nubs, and the lifters were spalled all to pieces. I didn't do the initial > breakin -- it supposedly had under 10,000 miles when I installed it (I did > pull a main cap at the time and the bearings looked brand new). While I have > had it it it has used 20W50 Castrol. But over that period Castrol reduced > the amount of ZDDP several times. > > Since I put in the new cam I have been adding STP with every oil change, > since I can't find a motor oil with a documented adequate level of zinc. I > won't run racing oil because it's a year-round daily driver (over 210K so > far), not a 500 mile/year driveway queen. From barrie at look.ca Sun Aug 29 11:03:44 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 13:03:44 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: References: <00a501cb4668$be8d1050$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> <754018.83875.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was paid by Shell to test out their oil on my brand newly restored Austin Healey. It was meticulously measured for the dreaded valve seat recession and I put a lot of miles on. After this Shell measured again (they made a special tool to fit the engine) - and voila! - no signs of wear! This during a period when some companies were pushing additives At 10:54 AM 8/28/2010, Paul Osborne wrote: >I'm with Barney, why all of these exotic oils and lube mixes??? >Have been using NAPA 20-50 too and with 100,000 + and in 2 cars >, regular changes all is just fine. Guess there is a need to spend $$ . >paul > > >>Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My MGA fairly >>often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 miles and counting. >>So far I do not worry about ZDDP, except during a new cam break in >>period. I run NAPA 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in winter. Current >>engine has 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the bottom end apart. >> >>Barney Gaylord >>1958 MGA with an attitude >>http://MGAguru.com >> >> >>At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( wrote: >>>The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp >>>and is labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the >>>high milage additives of the street version. It is meant to be >>>changed after every race, or about every five hundred or so miles. >>>This is about the milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in >>>a driving season in a moderate climate area. >>>.... >___ > >-- >Paul Osborne >University of Rochester >Engineering & Technical Services >Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering >201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus >Rochester, New York 14627 >585-275-5226 >paul at ece.rochester.edu >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca Regards Barrie barrie at look.ca 705--721-9060 From eugeneb at nni.com Sun Aug 29 12:31:31 2010 From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 14:31:31 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Barrie, This is very interesting and encouraging. Has Shell published any of the results? Can you tell us how many miles you put on ? Thanks, Gene 80 B On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 13:03:44 -0400 Barrie Robinson wrote: > I was paid by Shell to test out their oil on my brand > newly restored Austin Healey. It was meticulously > measured for the dreaded valve seat recession and I put > a lot of miles on. After this Shell measured again > (they made a special tool to fit the engine) - and voila! > - no signs of wear! This during a period when some > companies were pushing additives > > > At 10:54 AM 8/28/2010, Paul Osborne wrote: > >I'm with Barney, why all of these exotic oils and lube > mixes??? Have been using NAPA 20-50 too and with 100,000 > + and in 2 cars , regular changes all is just fine. > Guess there is a need to spend $$ . > >paul > > > > > >>Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My > MGA fairly often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 > miles and counting. So far I do not worry about ZDDP, > except during a new cam break in period. I run NAPA > 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in winter. Current engine has > 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the bottom end > apart. > >> > >>Barney Gaylord > >>1958 MGA with an attitude > >>http://MGAguru.com > >> > >> > >>At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( > wrote: > >>>The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does > contain zddp and is labeled for off-road use only but > does not contain the high milage additives of the street > version. It is meant to be changed after every race, or > about every five hundred or so miles. This is about the > milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in a driving > season in a moderate climate area. > >>>.... > >___ > > > >-- > >Paul Osborne > >University of Rochester > >Engineering & Technical Services > >Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > >201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus > >Rochester, New York 14627 > >585-275-5226 > >paul at ece.rochester.edu > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Mgs at autox.team.net > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Suggested annual donation $12.75 > >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > >Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca > > Regards > > Barrie > barrie at look.ca > 705--721-9060 > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ From barrie at look.ca Sun Aug 29 16:02:26 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:02:26 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gene, This was along time ago and I have forgotten the mileage, lost the special bit (it was quite elegant!) and out of touch with the Shell people. The bloke responsible was moved to Calgary but I understand he wrote something on it . The nice thing was they paid for my gas, servicing, insurance and all that stuff. It was great going to meets knowing my gas bills would be re-imbursed - to mis-quote "broom broom". At 02:31 PM 8/29/2010, Eugene Balinski wrote: >Barrie, > > This is very interesting and encouraging. Has Shell >published any of the results? Can you tell us how many >miles you put on ? > > Thanks, > > Gene > 80 B > > >On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 13:03:44 -0400 > Barrie Robinson wrote: > > I was paid by Shell to test out their oil on my brand > > newly restored Austin Healey. It was meticulously > > measured for the dreaded valve seat recession and I put > > a lot of miles on. After this Shell measured again > > (they made a special tool to fit the engine) - and voila! > > - no signs of wear! This during a period when some > > companies were pushing additives > > > > > > At 10:54 AM 8/28/2010, Paul Osborne wrote: > > >I'm with Barney, why all of these exotic oils and lube > > mixes??? Have been using NAPA 20-50 too and with 100,000 > > + and in 2 cars , regular changes all is just fine. > > Guess there is a need to spend $$ . > > >paul > > > > > > > > >>Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My > > MGA fairly often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 > > miles and counting. So far I do not worry about ZDDP, > > except during a new cam break in period. I run NAPA > > 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in winter. Current engine has > > 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the bottom end > > apart. > > >> > > >>Barney Gaylord > > >>1958 MGA with an attitude > > >>http://MGAguru.com > > >> > > >> > > >>At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( > > wrote: > > >>>The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does > > contain zddp and is labeled for off-road use only but > > does not contain the high milage additives of the street > > version. It is meant to be changed after every race, or > > about every five hundred or so miles. This is about the > > milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in a driving > > season in a moderate climate area. > > >>>.... > > >___ > > > > > >-- > > >Paul Osborne > > >University of Rochester > > >Engineering & Technical Services > > >Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > > >201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus > > >Rochester, New York 14627 > > >585-275-5226 > > >paul at ece.rochester.edu > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > >Mgs at autox.team.net > > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > >Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > >Unsubscribe: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca > > > > Regards > > > > Barrie > > barrie at look.ca > > 705--721-9060 > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. >http://www.nni.com/ Regards Barrie (705) 721-9060 From ccrobins at ktc.com Sun Aug 29 16:29:19 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:29:19 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] EZ Bleed? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C7ADF3F.80401@ktc.com> Hay guys 'n Gals, What ever happened to the Gunson EZ Bleed kit? CR From don at napanet.net Sun Aug 29 17:17:13 2010 From: don at napanet.net (don) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:17:13 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG Message-ID: <20100829231720.2494FAE6A8@mail.dsl.napanet.net> I just read that Glenn Beck's first car was a '69 MG. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/08/glenn-beck-loves-cadillac-escalade-disses-hybrids/1 From schultejim at msn.com Sun Aug 29 17:21:24 2010 From: schultejim at msn.com (James Schulte) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:21:24 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B Message-ID: Folks I pulled the right front wheel and disassembled the bearings due to it having too much play on my 70B. The outside bearing (smaller of the 2 ) was charred like it might have been over tightened. I'm replacing it with a new set of bearings. There was a really thin shim that was stuck on the cone shaped spacer. Not sure what size. Any hints or tips welcome. Jim Schulte VP Lehigh Valley Kayak & Canoe Club ACA Instructor From eric at erickson.on.net Sun Aug 29 17:31:45 2010 From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:01:45 +0930 Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG In-Reply-To: <20100829231720.2494FAE6A8@mail.dsl.napanet.net> References: <20100829231720.2494FAE6A8@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: <4C7AEDE1.9070104@erickson.on.net> don wrote: > I just read that Glenn Beck's first car was a '69 MG. > > It wasn't the MG's fault! ;-) From mg_garage at comcast.net Sun Aug 29 17:43:59 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:43:59 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C7AF0BF.7050903@comcast.net> Ed, you wanna answer this one...again? James Schulte wrote: > Folks > I pulled the right front wheel and disassembled the bearings due to it having > too much play on my 70B. The outside bearing (smaller of the 2 ) was charred > like it might have been over tightened. I'm replacing it with a new set of > bearings. There was a really thin shim that was stuck on the cone shaped > spacer. Not sure what size. Any hints or tips welcome. > > Jim Schulte > VP Lehigh Valley Kayak& Canoe Club > ACA Instructor > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg_garage at comcast.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5407 (20100829) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com From mg_garage at comcast.net Sun Aug 29 17:45:09 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:45:09 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] EZ Bleed? In-Reply-To: <4C7ADF3F.80401@ktc.com> References: <4C7ADF3F.80401@ktc.com> Message-ID: <4C7AF105.3070304@comcast.net> Still available, try www.lbcarco.com. Jeff says he still carries them. Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: > Hay guys 'n Gals, > > What ever happened to the Gunson EZ Bleed kit? > > CR > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg_garage at comcast.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5407 (20100829) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 29 17:41:25 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:41:25 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yeah, but why can't they define "high zinc"? Why make the customer guess, unless it's just marketing blather? -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/28/10 7:25 PM, Simon Matthews at simon.d.matthews at gmail.com wrote: > Amsoil sell a 100% synthetic oil which claims a "high zinc formula" > which they recommend for flat tappet engines. > > Simon > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Max Heim wrote: >> It's not the bottom end that suffers, it's the cam and lifters. >> >> When my B motor had approximately 70-80K miles the cam lobes were worn down >> to nubs, and the lifters were spalled all to pieces. I didn't do the initial >> breakin -- it supposedly had under 10,000 miles when I installed it (I did >> pull a main cap at the time and the bearings looked brand new). While I have >> had it it it has used 20W50 Castrol. But over that period Castrol reduced >> the amount of ZDDP several times. >> >> Since I put in the new cam I have been adding STP with every oil change, >> since I can't find a motor oil with a documented adequate level of zinc. I >> won't run racing oil because it's a year-round daily driver (over 210K so >> far), not a 500 mile/year driveway queen. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 29 17:42:57 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:42:57 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oil has little or nothing to do with valve seat recession -- that was all about leaded (or unleaded) gas. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/29/10 10:03 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: > I was paid by Shell to test out their oil on my brand newly restored > Austin Healey. It was meticulously measured for the dreaded valve > seat recession and I put a lot of miles on. After this Shell > measured again (they made a special tool to fit the engine) - and > voila! - no signs of wear! This during a period when some > companies were pushing additives > > > At 10:54 AM 8/28/2010, Paul Osborne wrote: >> I'm with Barney, why all of these exotic oils and lube mixes??? >> Have been using NAPA 20-50 too and with 100,000 + and in 2 cars >> , regular changes all is just fine. Guess there is a need to spend $$ . >> paul >> >> >>> Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My MGA fairly >>> often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 miles and counting. >>> So far I do not worry about ZDDP, except during a new cam break in >>> period. I run NAPA 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in winter. Current >>> engine has 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the bottom end apart. >>> >>> Barney Gaylord >>> 1958 MGA with an attitude >>> http://MGAguru.com >>> >>> >>> At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( wrote: >>>> The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp >>>> and is labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the >>>> high milage additives of the street version. It is meant to be >>>> changed after every race, or about every five hundred or so miles. >>>> This is about the milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in >>>> a driving season in a moderate climate area. >>>> .... >> ___ >> >> -- >> Paul Osborne >> University of Rochester >> Engineering & Technical Services >> Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering >> 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus >> Rochester, New York 14627 >> 585-275-5226 >> paul at ece.rochester.edu > > Regards > > Barrie > barrie at look.ca > 705--721-9060 > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/max_heim at sbcglobal.net From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 29 17:44:17 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:44:17 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG In-Reply-To: <20100829231720.2494FAE6A8@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: Too bad that idiot had anything to do with MGs. The fact that he loves Escalades tells you all you need to know. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/29/10 4:17 PM, don at don at napanet.net wrote: > I just read that Glenn Beck's first car was a '69 MG. > > http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/08/glenn-beck-loves- > cadillac-escalade-disses-hybrids/1 From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 29 17:45:30 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:45:30 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You need to set the shim pack anytime you replace the bearings. Consult your Bentley's manual. You will need an assortment of shims. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/29/10 4:21 PM, James Schulte at schultejim at msn.com wrote: > Folks > I pulled the right front wheel and disassembled the bearings due to it having > too much play on my 70B. The outside bearing (smaller of the 2 ) was charred > like it might have been over tightened. I'm replacing it with a new set of > bearings. There was a really thin shim that was stuck on the cone shaped > spacer. Not sure what size. Any hints or tips welcome. > > Jim Schulte > VP Lehigh Valley Kayak & Canoe Club > ACA Instructor > _______________________________________________ From mg_garage at comcast.net Sun Aug 29 17:47:26 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:47:26 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG In-Reply-To: <4C7AEDE1.9070104@erickson.on.net> References: <20100829231720.2494FAE6A8@mail.dsl.napanet.net> <4C7AEDE1.9070104@erickson.on.net> Message-ID: <4C7AF18E.3080206@comcast.net> Hmmm, do I foresee a surge in Tr*umph owership? Eric wrote: > don wrote: >> I just read that Glenn Beck's first car was a '69 MG. >> > > It wasn't the MG's fault! > > ;-) > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg_garage at comcast.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5407 (20100829) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com From lkinmonth at comcast.net Sun Aug 29 18:26:51 2010 From: lkinmonth at comcast.net (Lily Kinmonth) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:26:51 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG In-Reply-To: <4C7AEDE1.9070104@erickson.on.net> References: <20100829231720.2494FAE6A8@mail.dsl.napanet.net> <4C7AEDE1.9070104@erickson.on.net> Message-ID: <0103176E-3651-49F9-9982-5561574A6E09@comcast.net> Shows great taste in cars! Sent from my iPad On Aug 29, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Eric wrote: > don wrote: >> I just read that Glenn Beck's first car was a '69 MG. >> >> > > It wasn't the MG's fault! > > ;-) > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/lkinmonth at comcast.net From ddarby at centurytel.net Sun Aug 29 19:06:36 2010 From: ddarby at centurytel.net (David F. Darby) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:06:36 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG In-Reply-To: <20100829231720.2494FAE6A8@mail.dsl.napanet.net> References: <20100829231720.2494FAE6A8@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: <96437B39AF1E45FEBDBAE8BFD9476086@YOURF3E40984A8> Doesn't explain the idiocy level... -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of don Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 6:17 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG I just read that Glenn Beck's first car was a '69 MG. From rdwilt at pol.net Sun Aug 29 20:12:16 2010 From: rdwilt at pol.net (Roger Wilt) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 22:12:16 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG References: <20100829231720.2494FAE6A8@mail.dsl.napanet.net> <96437B39AF1E45FEBDBAE8BFD9476086@YOURF3E40984A8> Message-ID: <70CB0089BA864BAEA5D7FDE43C4075E2@Gateway> Comments like that say a lot about the source of origin. He was just stating a fact. May I suggest we all stick to MGs and leave the politics to the next election........ Roger Columbus, OH 51 TD 74 B ----- Original Message ----- From: "David F. Darby" To: Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] American icon had an MG > Doesn't explain the idiocy level... > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of don > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 6:17 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG > > I just read that Glenn Beck's first car was a '69 MG. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rdwilt at pol.net From ccrobins at ktc.com Sun Aug 29 21:04:17 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 22:04:17 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] EZ Bleed? In-Reply-To: <4C7AF105.3070304@comcast.net> References: <4C7ADF3F.80401@ktc.com> <4C7AF105.3070304@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4C7B1FB1.6030902@ktc.com> Thanks, also found it from the distributor: http://www.autoexpertproducts.com/eezibleed.htm CR On 8/29/2010 6:45 PM, gordies garage wrote: > Still available, try www.lbcarco.com. Jeff says he still carries them. > > Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: >> Hay guys 'n Gals, >> >> What ever happened to the Gunson EZ Bleed kit? >> >> CR From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 30 02:22:31 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:22:31 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: Message-ID: The factory recommended 10W/30 only for temps consistently between 10C to -20C/50F to -5F. For temps above that the lowest recommended grade is 10W/40. Very low viscosity oils are intended for modern low-clearance engines, where high viscosity can erode the bearing material as well as reduce through-put. Conversely modern low viscosity oils are said to allow more metal to metal contact in older engines with higher clearances, but then we have had this, erm, discussion before. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > ... Never > the less, I stick to 10W/30. This is within the range of recommended > viscosities in the owners manual (as I recall, but I am bit fuzzy on > that point). From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 30 01:55:13 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 08:55:13 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com> <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353D0E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: For me it's a classic Mini specialist that happens to be nearby. But I'm not happy with claim and counter-claim concerning ZDDP in VR1 (which concerns me more than the viscosity) and one container that only contained a gallon when marked with 5 litres, so I doubt I will buy it again. My preferred oil is 15W/40 but specified for Diesel engines as well as petrol (i.e. API CF-4, CF and SJ)and therefore has more ZDDP. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Where does one buy this VR-1 oil? I am already having trouble finding > plain old 20W50. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 30 02:11:17 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:11:17 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com><4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353D0E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu><515E91D8754344919A4355F70C7AC351@RickPC> <001a01cb4605$7c2daca0$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: I don't trust VR1, they claim to have that level but then also label their containers API SM which need much lower levels than that to avoid poisoning catalysers. Royal Purple claims to have 1500-1600 ppm of ZDDP and say "we could take all of the ZDDP out of our engine oils and still have 4 times the wear resistance of even the VR-1 oil due to our Synerlec additive technology". It makes it a farce for people like us. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > VR1 has 1200 ppm of zddp according to their material data sheet. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 30 02:00:38 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:00:38 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking References: <004801cb4486$54ca94a0$6401a8c0@normoffice>, , , Message-ID: <05541D50FB25411883F86242B0AEDDBD@paul> Seeing as how they have just announced yet another million-plus recall (11 million so far in 15 recalls in 10 months), this time for engine stalling ... ----- Original Message ----- > ... or does it mean there's something different about Toyota cars? From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 30 02:26:49 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:26:49 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: Message-ID: Isn't that what the API and ACEA gradings are for? ----- Original Message ----- > It would help if there were labeling requirements for motor oil, like > there > are for candy bars, etc. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 30 02:25:42 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:25:42 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: <00a501cb4668$be8d1050$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: Exactly what I mean ... ----- Original Message ----- > The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp and is > labeled for off-road use only but > does not contain the high milage additives of the street version. >> Why the mix ? VR-1 comes in 2 versions - one for the >> street (with all of the usual industry qualifications) and >> a pure racing version. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 30 03:00:28 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:00:28 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: <00a501cb4668$be8d1050$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2><754018.83875.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <948B7875A7EB4A2180747EE84A1FB9E7@paul> Valve seat recession, when it occurs, is down to petrol, not oil, n'est pas? ----- Original Message ----- >I was paid by Shell to test out their oil on my brand newly restored > Austin Healey. It was meticulously measured for the dreaded valve > seat recession and I put a lot of miles on. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 30 03:03:33 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:03:33 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] EZ Bleed? References: <4C7ADF3F.80401@ktc.com> Message-ID: <8DE30BCB1BBE4A34A3975188B06CD225@paul> Still commonly available in the UK http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=gunson+eezibleed ----- Original Message ----- > What ever happened to the Gunson EZ Bleed kit? From ladaniels at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 30 05:15:30 2010 From: ladaniels at sbcglobal.net (Larry Daniels) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 06:15:30 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG In-Reply-To: <70CB0089BA864BAEA5D7FDE43C4075E2@Gateway> References: <20100829231720.2494FAE6A8@mail.dsl.napanet.net><96437B39AF1E45FEBDBAE8BFD9476086@YOURF3E40984A8> <70CB0089BA864BAEA5D7FDE43C4075E2@Gateway> Message-ID: <09F94914315D488CA5CB76BCD0D0425A@HomePC> As you can see in the subject line, the original poster identified Beck as an "American Icon". That is an opinion, not "just stating a fact". Politics were not mentioned. Mr. Beck is not a politician. He is an entertainer -- with a lot of well-founded opinions about him. A few of which were stated here. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Wilt" Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:12 PM To: "David F. Darby" ; Subject: Re: [Mgs] American icon had an MG Comments like that say a lot about the source of origin. He was just stating a fact. May I suggest we all stick to MGs and leave the politics to the next election........ Roger Columbus, OH 51 TD 74 B ----- Original Message ----- From: "David F. Darby" To: Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] American icon had an MG > Doesn't explain the idiocy level... > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of don > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 6:17 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG > > I just read that Glenn Beck's first car was a '69 MG. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rdwilt at pol.net _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ladaniels at sbcglobal.net From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Aug 30 05:14:42 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:14:42 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B References: Message-ID: <8A92F012BEEB4315BA9DDBD41CA19537@paul> Was it the rollers or the inner ring they run on that was marked? If the latter it could have been because the inner ring was spinning on the axle shaft, but then the nut would have been loose when the split-pin was removed. Insufficient shims causing lack of free play or end-float would affect both bearings in the set equally. There should have been a series of shims between the spacer and the outer bearing. A thick one of 30 thou, then a series of thinner ones at 3, 5 and 10 thou which set the gap. Reassemble dry (easier to judge when there is end-float or not) and don't fit the oil seal, with no shims tighten the nut to 40 ft lb or until they start to bind to seat the bearings in the hub, then start setting the shims. By juggling combinations 3, 5 and 10 thou you can get pretty much any thickness in one thou steps from 8 thou up, and you should need more than that. What you are looking for is one set that gives just perceptible play, and another set one thou smaller that doesn't. The lower set plus a 3 thou will give you the correct 2 to 4 thou end-float. The shims are not marked, but by using one shim to bend another one you can tell which is which. When you have the right combination remove the races and pack them by pressing grease in from one side only until it oozes out the other end of the rollers. Patience is required, don't be tempted to speed things up by pressing it in from both sides or you will trap air and have insufficient grease. The smaller outer bearing is more important, centrifugal force tends to throw grease into the larger inner bearing. With the races replaced fit the oil seal, groove and lip facing the bearing, lip greased, with the groove packed with grease. Don't pack the space between the bearings with grease. Refit the hub, spacer, shims, outer race, sealing washer and nut. Tighten the nut to a minimum of 40 ft lb, then to the next split-pin hole (should be two in the spindle), which should be before 70 ft lb, and insert a split-pin. This *shouldn't* remove the end float. Make sure the play you are feeling is in the hub bearings and not anywhere else like the king-pin bearings etc. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > I pulled the right front wheel and disassembled the bearings due to it > having > too much play on my 70B. The outside bearing (smaller of the 2 ) was > charred > like it might have been over tightened. I'm replacing it with a new set of > bearings. There was a really thin shim that was stuck on the cone shaped > spacer. Not sure what size. Any hints or tips welcome. From rstarkweather at scottmadden.com Mon Aug 30 07:05:21 2010 From: rstarkweather at scottmadden.com (Richard D Starkweather) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:05:21 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] EZ Bleed? In-Reply-To: <4C7B1FB1.6030902@ktc.com> Message-ID: I9ve got a used one (as in ~20 years old) I9d be happy to part with. Rick Starkweather, Partner | O: 919-781-4191 | M: 919-345-9871 ScottMadden Inc. | 2626 Glenwood Ave, #480 | Raleigh, NC 27608 | scottmadden.com rstarkweather at scottmadden.com From: Charley & Peggy Robinson Organization: Computer Helpers Reply-To: Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 23:04:17 -0400 To: Cc: MG List Subject: Re: [Mgs] EZ Bleed? Thanks, also found it from the distributor: http://www.autoexpertproducts.com/eezibleed.htm CR On 8/29/2010 6:45 PM, gordies garage wrote: > Still available, try www.lbcarco.com. Jeff says he still carries them. > > Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: >> Hay guys 'n Gals, >> >> What ever happened to the Gunson EZ Bleed kit? >> >> CR _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rstarkweather at scottmadden.com From eugeneb at nni.com Mon Aug 30 08:13:01 2010 From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:13:01 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just to be clear, the street version of VR-1 DOES INDEED contain ZDDP. It is listed on the bottle and on the web site. Gene 80 B On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:25:42 +0100 "Paul Hunt" wrote: > Exactly what I mean ... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does > contain zddp and is > > labeled for off-road use only but > > does not contain the high milage additives of the > street version. > > >> Why the mix ? VR-1 comes in 2 versions - one for the > >> street (with all of the usual industry qualifications) > and > >> a pure racing version. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ From riverside at southslope.net Mon Aug 30 09:39:37 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:39:37 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: Message-ID: <006a01cb4859$8e47f200$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> how much ZDDP in STP?? art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Heim" To: "MG List" Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > It's not the bottom end that suffers, it's the cam and lifters. > > When my B motor had approximately 70-80K miles the cam lobes were worn > down > to nubs, and the lifters were spalled all to pieces. I didn't do the > initial > breakin -- it supposedly had under 10,000 miles when I installed it (I did > pull a main cap at the time and the bearings looked brand new). While I > have > had it it it has used 20W50 Castrol. But over that period Castrol reduced > the amount of ZDDP several times. > > Since I put in the new cam I have been adding STP with every oil change, > since I can't find a motor oil with a documented adequate level of zinc. I > won't run racing oil because it's a year-round daily driver (over 210K so > far), not a 500 mile/year driveway queen. > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > > on 8/28/10 12:35 AM, Barney Gaylord at barneymg at mgaguru.com wrote: > >> Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My MGA fairly >> often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 miles and >> counting. So far I do not worry about ZDDP, except during a new cam >> break in period. I run NAPA 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in >> winter. Current engine has 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the >> bottom end apart. >> >> Barney Gaylord >> 1958 MGA with an attitude >> http://MGAguru.com >> >> >> At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( wrote: >>> The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp >>> and is labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the high >>> milage additives of the street version. It is meant to be changed >>> after every race, or about every five hundred or so miles. This is >>> about the milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in a driving >>> season in a moderate climate area. >>> .... > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net From riverside at southslope.net Mon Aug 30 09:43:35 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:43:35 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: <754018.83875.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007701cb485a$1c216c00$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> There are also other manufacturers claiming "high" or "adequate" amounts of ZDDP. Why are they so bashful about giving an objective answer. If it is less than 1200 ppm the risk of cam/lifter damage goes up. art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Matthews" To: "Max Heim" Cc: "MG List" Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > Amsoil sell a 100% synthetic oil which claims a "high zinc formula" > which they recommend for flat tappet engines. > > Simon > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Max Heim wrote: >> It's not the bottom end that suffers, it's the cam and lifters. >> >> When my B motor had approximately 70-80K miles the cam lobes were worn >> down >> to nubs, and the lifters were spalled all to pieces. I didn't do the >> initial >> breakin -- it supposedly had under 10,000 miles when I installed it (I >> did >> pull a main cap at the time and the bearings looked brand new). While I >> have >> had it it it has used 20W50 Castrol. But over that period Castrol reduced >> the amount of ZDDP several times. >> >> Since I put in the new cam I have been adding STP with every oil change, >> since I can't find a motor oil with a documented adequate level of zinc. >> I >> won't run racing oil because it's a year-round daily driver (over 210K so >> far), not a 500 mile/year driveway queen. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net From riverside at southslope.net Mon Aug 30 09:47:01 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:47:01 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: <00a501cb4668$be8d1050$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2><754018.83875.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009801cb485a$96b3bf90$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> ZDDP has no impact on valve seat recession. It is effective in slip and slide (cam and lifter) movies only. art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrie Robinson" To: "Paul Osborne" ; "Barney Gaylord" Cc: Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL >I was paid by Shell to test out their oil on my brand newly restored Austin >Healey. It was meticulously measured for the dreaded valve seat recession >and I put a lot of miles on. After this Shell measured again (they made a >special tool to fit the engine) - and voila! - no signs of wear! This >during a period when some companies were pushing additives > > > At 10:54 AM 8/28/2010, Paul Osborne wrote: >>I'm with Barney, why all of these exotic oils and lube mixes??? Have been >>using NAPA 20-50 too and with 100,000 + and in 2 cars , regular >>changes all is just fine. Guess there is a need to spend $$ . >>paul >> >> >>>Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My MGA fairly often >>>does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 miles and counting. So far I do >>>not worry about ZDDP, except during a new cam break in period. I run >>>NAPA 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in winter. Current engine has 75,000 >>>miles, going strong, never had the bottom end apart. >>> >>>Barney Gaylord >>>1958 MGA with an attitude >>>http://MGAguru.com >>> >>> >>>At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( wrote: >>>>The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp and is >>>>labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the high milage >>>>additives of the street version. It is meant to be changed after every >>>>race, or about every five hundred or so miles. This is about the milage >>>>the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in a driving season in a moderate >>>>climate area. >>>>.... >>___ >> >>-- >>Paul Osborne >>University of Rochester >>Engineering & Technical Services >>Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering >>201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus >>Rochester, New York 14627 >>585-275-5226 >>paul at ece.rochester.edu >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Mgs at autox.team.net >>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>Suggested annual donation $12.75 >>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca > > Regards > > Barrie > barrie at look.ca > 705--721-9060 _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net From riverside at southslope.net Mon Aug 30 10:10:01 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:10:01 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: <35FBAD8D-CDDF-44E4-B3D3-3551444525E4@gmail.com><4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353D0E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <00da01cb485d$cd18e3f0$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Used to use Shell Rotella because of the ZDDP but so much was going into modern gas engines that they reducced the ZDDP a couple years ago if my recollection is correct. art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Councill, David" ; "Eugene Balinski" Cc: Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > For me it's a classic Mini specialist that happens to be nearby. But I'm > not happy with claim and counter-claim concerning ZDDP in VR1 (which > concerns me more than the viscosity) and one container that only contained > a gallon when marked with 5 litres, so I doubt I will buy it again. My > preferred oil is 15W/40 but specified for Diesel engines as well as petrol > (i.e. API CF-4, CF and SJ)and therefore has more ZDDP. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Where does one buy this VR-1 oil? I am already having trouble finding >> plain old 20W50. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 30 11:17:20 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:17:20 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No, these are performance specs, not ingredient specs. And flat tappet engine wear is no longer part of the performance spec, apparently. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/30/10 1:26 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > Isn't that what the API and ACEA gradings are for? > > ----- Original Message ----- >> It would help if there were labeling requirements for motor oil, like >> there >> are for candy bars, etc. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 30 11:22:52 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:22:52 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] American icon had an MG In-Reply-To: <09F94914315D488CA5CB76BCD0D0425A@HomePC> Message-ID: Precisely. I would also note that the opinion expressed by Mr. Beck in the article referenced was that he "loved Cadillac Escalades" -- I think that qualifies as an automotive subject, not to mention qualifying as idiocy. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/30/10 4:15 AM, Larry Daniels at ladaniels at sbcglobal.net wrote: > As you can see in the subject line, the original poster identified Beck as > an "American Icon". That is an opinion, not "just stating a fact". > Politics were not mentioned. Mr. Beck is not a politician. He is an > entertainer -- with a lot of well-founded opinions about him. A few of > which were stated here. > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Roger Wilt" > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:12 PM > To: "David F. Darby" ; > Subject: Re: [Mgs] American icon had an MG > > Comments like that say a lot about the source of origin. He was > just stating a fact. > > May I suggest we all stick to MGs and leave the politics to the next > election........ > > Roger > Columbus, OH > 51 TD > 74 B > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David F. Darby" > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] American icon had an MG > > >> Doesn't explain the idiocy level... From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 30 11:35:57 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:35:57 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <006a01cb4859$8e47f200$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: According to the MSDS, 1-4% by weight. Which is pretty damn vague. But seems like that would be up in the 10,000 to 40,000 ppm range. It comes in a 15oz bottle. So, very roughly, figuring in an oil change it is diluted by a factor of 8, and assuming no ZDDP at all in the motor oil (which is not true), you would wind up with a minimum of 1250 to 5000 ppm in the sump. Makes me wonder why it doesn't have a warning on the label "do not use with catalytic convertors". -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/30/10 8:39 AM, riverside at riverside at southslope.net wrote: > how much ZDDP in STP?? > > > art d > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Max Heim" > To: "MG List" > Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 4:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > > >> It's not the bottom end that suffers, it's the cam and lifters. >> >> When my B motor had approximately 70-80K miles the cam lobes were worn >> down >> to nubs, and the lifters were spalled all to pieces. I didn't do the >> initial >> breakin -- it supposedly had under 10,000 miles when I installed it (I did >> pull a main cap at the time and the bearings looked brand new). While I >> have >> had it it it has used 20W50 Castrol. But over that period Castrol reduced >> the amount of ZDDP several times. >> >> Since I put in the new cam I have been adding STP with every oil change, >> since I can't find a motor oil with a documented adequate level of zinc. I >> won't run racing oil because it's a year-round daily driver (over 210K so >> far), not a 500 mile/year driveway queen. >> >> >> -- >> >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires >> >> >> >> on 8/28/10 12:35 AM, Barney Gaylord at barneymg at mgaguru.com wrote: >> >>> Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My MGA fairly >>> often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 miles and >>> counting. So far I do not worry about ZDDP, except during a new cam >>> break in period. I run NAPA 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in >>> winter. Current engine has 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the >>> bottom end apart. >>> >>> Barney Gaylord >>> 1958 MGA with an attitude >>> http://MGAguru.com >>> >>> >>> At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( wrote: >>>> The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp >>>> and is labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the high >>>> milage additives of the street version. It is meant to be changed >>>> after every race, or about every five hundred or so miles. This is >>>> about the milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in a driving >>>> season in a moderate climate area. >>>> .... From barrie at look.ca Mon Aug 30 10:14:40 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:14:40 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Max, OMG !! What the devil was I thinking of !!! It must be because I had a fantastic run in the MGB GT V8 through Muskoka - all beautiful lakes and bendy roads. Car just purred along and nature just besotted me. Sorry folks for being so far off. At 07:42 PM 8/29/2010, Max Heim wrote: >Oil has little or nothing to do with valve seat recession -- that was all >about leaded (or unleaded) gas. > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > >on 8/29/10 10:03 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: > > > I was paid by Shell to test out their oil on my brand newly restored > > Austin Healey. It was meticulously measured for the dreaded valve > > seat recession and I put a lot of miles on. After this Shell > > measured again (they made a special tool to fit the engine) - and > > voila! - no signs of wear! This during a period when some > > companies were pushing additives > > > > > > At 10:54 AM 8/28/2010, Paul Osborne wrote: > >> I'm with Barney, why all of these exotic oils and lube mixes??? > >> Have been using NAPA 20-50 too and with 100,000 + and in 2 cars > >> , regular changes all is just fine. Guess there is a need to spend $$ . > >> paul > >> > >> > >>> Chuckle. Something wrong with "the average LBC"? My MGA fairly > >>> often does 500 miles in a single day. 385,000 miles and counting. > >>> So far I do not worry about ZDDP, except during a new cam break in > >>> period. I run NAPA 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in winter. Current > >>> engine has 75,000 miles, going strong, never had the bottom end apart. > >>> > >>> Barney Gaylord > >>> 1958 MGA with an attitude > >>> http://MGAguru.com > >>> > >>> > >>> At 11:23 PM 8/27/2010 -0500, "Ron S" ( wrote: > >>>> The street version does not contain zddp. VR-1 does contain zddp > >>>> and is labeled for off-road use only but does not contain the > >>>> high milage additives of the street version. It is meant to be > >>>> changed after every race, or about every five hundred or so miles. > >>>> This is about the milage the average LBC `weekend tourer' does in > >>>> a driving season in a moderate climate area. > >>>> .... > >> ___ > >> > >> -- > >> Paul Osborne > >> University of Rochester > >> Engineering & Technical Services > >> Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > >> 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus > >> Rochester, New York 14627 > >> 585-275-5226 > >> paul at ece.rochester.edu > > > > > Regards > > > > Barrie > > barrie at look.ca > > 705--721-9060 > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/max_heim at sbcglobal.net >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca Regards Barrie barrie at look.ca 705--721-9060 From mgbob at juno.com Mon Aug 30 12:21:22 2010 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:21:22 GMT Subject: [Mgs] OIL Message-ID: <20100830.142122.20649.1@webmail24.vgs.untd.com> It does seem thin to me also, now, though in the 1980s I used 10-30 in my '75 MGB whilst living on west coast of Florida. Temps and pressures were fine, and the car even towed a Laser class sailing dinghy around Florida and to New England w/o excessive consumption. Engine had some 65M miles on it when I got the car, and I added another 75M or so before my sister snagged it from me. Compression was good at 150M miles too. Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Paul Hunt" To: , Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:24:19 +0100 10W/30 sounds too thin to me, depending on your location. FWIW for the MGB that grade is quoted for ambient temps between 10C/50F and -20C/-5F. For temps above that it should be 10W/40 minimum, or 10W/50 or 20W/50. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- >I was asking about oil because I changed the oil last week. My oil reads >40 - 50 while driving at about 50 mph. Idle drops it to near 20. I am using >10w30 Castroil. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From mgbob at juno.com Mon Aug 30 13:06:15 2010 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:06:15 GMT Subject: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking Message-ID: <20100830.150615.1487.1@webmail02.vgs.untd.com> Driver Error was what Car & Driver wrote about their test results. Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Paul Root To: Max Heim Cc: MG List Subject: Re: [Mgs] Re. Brake Failure, now Left foot/Right Foot Braking Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:26:47 -0500 I remember the US study danced around the cause. The Canadian study just flat out said "driver error". On Aug 26, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Max Heim wrote: > I remember reading an analysis of the Audi "unintended acceleration" > incidents several years back, and it pretty much determined they were all > cases of mistaken application of the throttle instead of the brake. > Apparently people panic and just press harder, instead of trying different > pedals. > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > on 8/26/10 1:02 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > >> The people who have been having trouble with Toyotas over the last year or >> so have almost certainly been driving automatics for many years before. The >> Toyota problem seems to be far more serious, although precisely what still >> doesn't seem to be clear. The most recent thing I have read on the subject >> is that Toyota claim from the analysis of a number of 'black boxes' >> recovered from crashed cars (!), that the drivers didn't brake at all. That >> beggars belief, and even the company putting it out as a cause is almost >> believable, in that they expect us to believe it. Either that, or the human >> race is getting far more stupid than ever I had believed. >> >> PaulH. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> ... Makes sense since you don't have to >>> move your foot & leg over. (And, in the past year more than a few Toyota >>> drivers have had a major problem doing that. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From schultejim at msn.com Mon Aug 30 15:27:36 2010 From: schultejim at msn.com (James Schulte) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:27:36 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B In-Reply-To: <8A92F012BEEB4315BA9DDBD41CA19537@paul> References: , <8A92F012BEEB4315BA9DDBD41CA19537@paul> Message-ID: Folks, I think I'm screwed here. I took everything apart and cleaned and air dried. I was putting the races back in when I discovered the outer is loose in it's proper position. The inner is snug as it should be. I took the new race out and put the old one back in to see if there was a difference. It was loose as well. I don't remember this being the case when I took it apart but I was in a rush and may not have noticed. This may be the cause of the wobble in the tire. The old bearing was not scored nor is the bearing spindle. I believe I need to replace the Hub. Jim Schulte VP Lehigh Valley Kayak & Canoe Club ACA Instructor > From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk > To: schultejim at msn.com; mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:14:42 +0100 > > Was it the rollers or the inner ring they run on that was marked? If the > latter it could have been because the inner ring was spinning on the axle > shaft, but then the nut would have been loose when the split-pin was > removed. Insufficient shims causing lack of free play or end-float would > affect both bearings in the set equally. > > There should have been a series of shims between the spacer and the outer > bearing. A thick one of 30 thou, then a series of thinner ones at 3, 5 and > 10 thou which set the gap. Reassemble dry (easier to judge when there is > end-float or not) and don't fit the oil seal, with no shims tighten the nut > to 40 ft lb or until they start to bind to seat the bearings in the hub, > then start setting the shims. By juggling combinations 3, 5 and 10 thou you > can get pretty much any thickness in one thou steps from 8 thou up, and you > should need more than that. What you are looking for is one set that gives > just perceptible play, and another set one thou smaller that doesn't. The > lower set plus a 3 thou will give you the correct 2 to 4 thou end-float. > The shims are not marked, but by using one shim to bend another one you can > tell which is which. > > When you have the right combination remove the races and pack them by > pressing grease in from one side only until it oozes out the other end of > the rollers. Patience is required, don't be tempted to speed things up by > pressing it in from both sides or you will trap air and have insufficient > grease. The smaller outer bearing is more important, centrifugal force > tends to throw grease into the larger inner bearing. With the races > replaced fit the oil seal, groove and lip facing the bearing, lip greased, > with the groove packed with grease. Don't pack the space between the > bearings with grease. Refit the hub, spacer, shims, outer race, sealing > washer and nut. Tighten the nut to a minimum of 40 ft lb, then to the next > split-pin hole (should be two in the spindle), which should be before 70 ft > lb, and insert a split-pin. This *shouldn't* remove the end float. Make > sure the play you are feeling is in the hub bearings and not anywhere else > like the king-pin bearings etc. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > I pulled the right front wheel and disassembled the bearings due to it > > having > > too much play on my 70B. The outside bearing (smaller of the 2 ) was > > charred > > like it might have been over tightened. I'm replacing it with a new set of > > bearings. There was a really thin shim that was stuck on the cone shaped > > spacer. Not sure what size. Any hints or tips welcome. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 30 16:06:00 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:06:00 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It is at least conceivably possible that your machine shop could repair this hub by adding a bead of weld then lathing it to the correct inside diameter and pressing the new race. I suggest this since I know quality hubs can be hard to find. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/30/10 2:27 PM, James Schulte at schultejim at msn.com wrote: > Folks, > I think I'm screwed here. I took everything apart and cleaned and air dried. I > was putting the races back in when I discovered the outer is loose in it's > proper position. The inner is snug as it should be. I took the new race out > and put the old one back in to see if there was a difference. It was loose as > well. I don't remember this being the case when I took it apart but I was in a > rush and may not have noticed. This may be the cause of the wobble in the > tire. The old bearing was not scored nor is the bearing spindle. I believe I > need to replace the Hub. > > Jim Schulte > VP Lehigh Valley Kayak & Canoe Club > ACA Instructor > > > > > >> From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk >> To: schultejim at msn.com; mgs at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B >> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:14:42 +0100 >> >> Was it the rollers or the inner ring they run on that was marked? If the >> latter it could have been because the inner ring was spinning on the axle >> shaft, but then the nut would have been loose when the split-pin was >> removed. Insufficient shims causing lack of free play or end-float would >> affect both bearings in the set equally. >> >> There should have been a series of shims between the spacer and the outer >> bearing. A thick one of 30 thou, then a series of thinner ones at 3, 5 and >> 10 thou which set the gap. Reassemble dry (easier to judge when there is >> end-float or not) and don't fit the oil seal, with no shims tighten the nut >> to 40 ft lb or until they start to bind to seat the bearings in the hub, >> then start setting the shims. By juggling combinations 3, 5 and 10 thou you >> can get pretty much any thickness in one thou steps from 8 thou up, and you >> should need more than that. What you are looking for is one set that gives >> just perceptible play, and another set one thou smaller that doesn't. The >> lower set plus a 3 thou will give you the correct 2 to 4 thou end-float. >> The shims are not marked, but by using one shim to bend another one you can >> tell which is which. >> >> When you have the right combination remove the races and pack them by >> pressing grease in from one side only until it oozes out the other end of >> the rollers. Patience is required, don't be tempted to speed things up by >> pressing it in from both sides or you will trap air and have insufficient >> grease. The smaller outer bearing is more important, centrifugal force >> tends to throw grease into the larger inner bearing. With the races >> replaced fit the oil seal, groove and lip facing the bearing, lip greased, >> with the groove packed with grease. Don't pack the space between the >> bearings with grease. Refit the hub, spacer, shims, outer race, sealing >> washer and nut. Tighten the nut to a minimum of 40 ft lb, then to the next >> split-pin hole (should be two in the spindle), which should be before 70 ft >> lb, and insert a split-pin. This *shouldn't* remove the end float. Make >> sure the play you are feeling is in the hub bearings and not anywhere else >> like the king-pin bearings etc. >> >> PaulH. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> I pulled the right front wheel and disassembled the bearings due to it >>> having >>> too much play on my 70B. The outside bearing (smaller of the 2 ) was >>> charred >>> like it might have been over tightened. I'm replacing it with a new set > of >>> bearings. There was a really thin shim that was stuck on the cone shaped >>> spacer. Not sure what size. Any hints or tips welcome. From richard.ewald at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 16:33:42 2010 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:33:42 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B In-Reply-To: References: <8A92F012BEEB4315BA9DDBD41CA19537@paul> Message-ID: You can use Loctite stud and bearing mount in a case like this. It is basically a metal glue, designed for this purpose. Or you can buy a new hub. Rick On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 2:27 PM, James Schulte wrote: > Folks, > I think I'm screwed here. I took everything apart and cleaned and air dried. I > was putting the races back in when I discovered the outer is loose in it's > proper position. The inner is snug as it should be. I took the new race out > and put the old one back in to see if there was a difference. It was loose as > well. I don't remember this being the case when I took it apart but I was in a > rush and may not have noticed. This may be the cause of the wobble in the > tire. The old bearing was not scored nor is the bearing spindle. I believe I > need to replace the Hub. > > Jim Schulte > VP Lehigh Valley Kayak & Canoe Club > ACA Instructor > > > > > >> From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk >> To: schultejim at msn.com; mgs at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B >> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:14:42 +0100 >> >> Was it the rollers or the inner ring they run on that was marked? If the >> latter it could have been because the inner ring was spinning on the axle >> shaft, but then the nut would have been loose when the split-pin was >> removed. Insufficient shims causing lack of free play or end-float would >> affect both bearings in the set equally. >> >> There should have been a series of shims between the spacer and the outer >> bearing. A thick one of 30 thou, then a series of thinner ones at 3, 5 and >> 10 thou which set the gap. Reassemble dry (easier to judge when there is >> end-float or not) and don't fit the oil seal, with no shims tighten the nut >> to 40 ft lb or until they start to bind to seat the bearings in the hub, >> then start setting the shims. By juggling combinations 3, 5 and 10 thou you >> can get pretty much any thickness in one thou steps from 8 thou up, and you >> should need more than that. What you are looking for is one set that gives >> just perceptible play, and another set one thou smaller that doesn't. The >> lower set plus a 3 thou will give you the correct 2 to 4 thou end-float. >> The shims are not marked, but by using one shim to bend another one you can >> tell which is which. >> >> When you have the right combination remove the races and pack them by >> pressing grease in from one side only until it oozes out the other end of >> the rollers. Patience is required, don't be tempted to speed things up by >> pressing it in from both sides or you will trap air and have insufficient >> grease. The smaller outer bearing is more important, centrifugal force >> tends to throw grease into the larger inner bearing. With the races >> replaced fit the oil seal, groove and lip facing the bearing, lip greased, >> with the groove packed with grease. Don't pack the space between the >> bearings with grease. Refit the hub, spacer, shims, outer race, sealing >> washer and nut. Tighten the nut to a minimum of 40 ft lb, then to the next >> split-pin hole (should be two in the spindle), which should be before 70 ft >> lb, and insert a split-pin. This *shouldn't* remove the end float. Make >> sure the play you are feeling is in the hub bearings and not anywhere else >> like the king-pin bearings etc. >> >> PaulH. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > I pulled the right front wheel and disassembled the bearings due to it >> > having >> > too much play on my 70B. The outside bearing (smaller of the 2 ) was >> > charred >> > like it might have been over tightened. I'm replacing it with a new set > of >> > bearings. There was a really thin shim that was stuck on the cone shaped >> > spacer. Not sure what size. Any hints or tips welcome. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Mon Aug 30 16:47:49 2010 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:47:49 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353EBF@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> I sure hope we are not that desperate for a hub. I would hope that there are still plenty of good used hubs out there. I just replaced the front hubs on my 64B, converting from wire wheels to disc wheels to match the rear axle wheels. It was fairly straight forward but I had to obtain one front hub since I could only find one spare (from my 71BGT) amongst my growing collection of used parts. I got one from a Canadian salvage which also included the bearings, spacer, shims, washer and nut, all for $45 including shipping. A couple US salvage yards also offered to sell me one, at prices ranging from $50-$75. Wire wheel hubs will likely be a bit more expensive and run a chance of worn splines but new ones are available from Moss for about $120. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Max Heim Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 4:06 PM To: MG List Subject: Re: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B It is at least conceivably possible that your machine shop could repair this hub by adding a bead of weld then lathing it to the correct inside diameter and pressing the new race. I suggest this since I know quality hubs can be hard to find. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 30 17:42:59 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:42:59 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353EBF@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: I was thinking wire wheel hubs, I admit. The "new" ones are generally considered inferior, so it could be worth salvaging an original with good splines. Junkyard hubs, if you can find them, are unlikely to have usable splines. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/30/10 3:47 PM, Councill, David at dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote: > I sure hope we are not that desperate for a hub. I would hope that there > are still plenty of good used hubs out there. I just replaced the front > hubs on my 64B, converting from wire wheels to disc wheels to match the > rear axle wheels. It was fairly straight forward but I had to obtain one > front hub since I could only find one spare (from my 71BGT) amongst my > growing collection of used parts. I got one from a Canadian salvage > which also included the bearings, spacer, shims, washer and nut, all for > $45 including shipping. A couple US salvage yards also offered to sell > me one, at prices ranging from $50-$75. Wire wheel hubs will likely be a > bit more expensive and run a chance of worn splines but new ones are > available from Moss for about $120. > > David Councill > 64 B > 67 BGT > 72 B > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Max Heim > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 4:06 PM > To: MG List > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B > > It is at least conceivably possible that your machine shop could repair > this hub by adding a bead of weld then lathing it to the correct inside > diameter and pressing the new race. I suggest this since I know quality > hubs can be hard to find. > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires From barrie at look.ca Mon Aug 30 18:16:09 2010 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:16:09 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B In-Reply-To: References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353EBF@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: I got new splines for my MGB wire wheels and they were fine - not inferior, At 07:42 PM 8/30/2010, Max Heim wrote: >I was thinking wire wheel hubs, I admit. The "new" ones are generally >considered inferior, so it could be worth salvaging an original with good >splines. Junkyard hubs, if you can find them, are unlikely to have usable >splines. > > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > >on 8/30/10 3:47 PM, Councill, David at dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote: > > > I sure hope we are not that desperate for a hub. I would hope that there > > are still plenty of good used hubs out there. I just replaced the front > > hubs on my 64B, converting from wire wheels to disc wheels to match the > > rear axle wheels. It was fairly straight forward but I had to obtain one > > front hub since I could only find one spare (from my 71BGT) amongst my > > growing collection of used parts. I got one from a Canadian salvage > > which also included the bearings, spacer, shims, washer and nut, all for > > $45 including shipping. A couple US salvage yards also offered to sell > > me one, at prices ranging from $50-$75. Wire wheel hubs will likely be a > > bit more expensive and run a chance of worn splines but new ones are > > available from Moss for about $120. > > > > David Councill > > 64 B > > 67 BGT > > 72 B > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > > Behalf Of Max Heim > > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 4:06 PM > > To: MG List > > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B > > > > It is at least conceivably possible that your machine shop could repair > > this hub by adding a bead of weld then lathing it to the correct inside > > diameter and pressing the new race. I suggest this since I know quality > > hubs can be hard to find. > > > > > > -- > > > > Max Heim > > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > > it's the primer red one with chrome wires >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca Regards Barrie (705) 721-9060 From rgrlzsk8gr8 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 30 18:24:41 2010 From: rgrlzsk8gr8 at yahoo.com (Neil Anderson) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive Message-ID: <659796.56556.qm@web37306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Do you need to depress the clutch when using the overdrive button the manual 4 speed shifter knob? From lundgren at byu.net Mon Aug 30 18:34:24 2010 From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:34:24 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B In-Reply-To: References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353EBF@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <4C7C4E10.8000707@byu.net> I put new wire splines on mine a few years back. I don't know if they are up to par with the original ones, but they were far better than the old ones! On 8/30/2010 6:16 PM, Barrie Robinson wrote: > I got new splines for my MGB wire wheels and they were fine - not > inferior, > > > At 07:42 PM 8/30/2010, Max Heim wrote: >> I was thinking wire wheel hubs, I admit. The "new" ones are generally >> considered inferior, so it could be worth salvaging an original with >> good >> splines. Junkyard hubs, if you can find them, are unlikely to have >> usable >> splines. >> >> >> -- >> >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires >> >> >> on 8/30/10 3:47 PM, Councill, David at dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote: >> >> > I sure hope we are not that desperate for a hub. I would hope that >> there >> > are still plenty of good used hubs out there. I just replaced the >> front >> > hubs on my 64B, converting from wire wheels to disc wheels to match >> the >> > rear axle wheels. It was fairly straight forward but I had to >> obtain one >> > front hub since I could only find one spare (from my 71BGT) amongst my >> > growing collection of used parts. I got one from a Canadian salvage >> > which also included the bearings, spacer, shims, washer and nut, >> all for >> > $45 including shipping. A couple US salvage yards also offered to sell >> > me one, at prices ranging from $50-$75. Wire wheel hubs will likely >> be a >> > bit more expensive and run a chance of worn splines but new ones are >> > available from Moss for about $120. >> > >> > David Councill >> > 64 B >> > 67 BGT >> > 72 B >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net >> [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On >> > Behalf Of Max Heim >> > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 4:06 PM >> > To: MG List >> > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B >> > >> > It is at least conceivably possible that your machine shop could >> repair >> > this hub by adding a bead of weld then lathing it to the correct >> inside >> > diameter and pressing the new race. I suggest this since I know >> quality >> > hubs can be hard to find. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Max Heim >> > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> > If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> > it's the primer red one with chrome wires >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca > > Regards > > Barrie > (705) 721-9060 _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/lundgren at byu.net From runner01 at wowway.com Mon Aug 30 18:58:07 2010 From: runner01 at wowway.com (Ray Graham) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:58:07 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Carpet Message-ID: <34EA6893FA654E799E989C45612BAC6A@AcerPC> Hey Listers, Looking for the passenger side floor carpet piece for a 1980 MGB without having to buy the whole carpet set. Any ideas? Thanks, Ray Graham From leylandauto at yahoo.com Mon Aug 30 19:03:50 2010 From: leylandauto at yahoo.com (Carl French) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive In-Reply-To: <659796.56556.qm@web37306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <571745.24867.qm@web51903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> No you do not. However, I often do when engaging the OD in either my 67 or 73. It just seems easier on the transmission. --- On Mon, 8/30/10, Neil Anderson wrote: From: Neil Anderson Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive To: mgs at autox.team.net Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 8:24 PM Do you need to depress the clutch when using the overdrive button the manual 4 speed shifter knob? _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/leylandauto at yahoo.com From WSpohn4 at aol.com Mon Aug 30 19:05:52 2010 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:05:52 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive Message-ID: In a message dated 30/08/2010 5:47:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rgrlzsk8gr8 at yahoo.com writes: Do you need to depress the clutch when using the overdrive button the manual 4 speed shifter knob? No. Bill From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 30 19:16:28 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:16:28 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive In-Reply-To: <659796.56556.qm@web37306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No, the electric overdrive does not require using the clutch. It doesn't even require lifting off the gas. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires On 8/30/10 5:24 PM, Neil Anderson at rgrlzsk8gr8 at yahoo.com wrote: > Do you need to depress the clutch when using the overdrive button the manual 4 > speed shifter knob? From lundgren at byu.net Mon Aug 30 19:57:01 2010 From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:57:01 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. Message-ID: <4C7C616D.9060203@byu.net> When my OD gets hot it won't engage, it will actually disengage once it gets too hot. I had the entire OD and transmission gone though before I installed it at a local MG specialist that was probably 5 years ago. Since then I have put less then a few thousand miles on the car. I don't want to buy a new solenoid if that can't be the problem... I have changed the oil in it a few times hoping that might be it. Thanks! -- Andrew From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 30 20:35:13 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:35:13 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. In-Reply-To: <4C7C616D.9060203@byu.net> Message-ID: Well, what are you running for oil? I have to admit I don't see why it should get hot in the first place. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/30/10 6:57 PM, Andrew B. Lundgren at lundgren at byu.net wrote: > When my OD gets hot it won't engage, it will actually disengage once > it gets too hot. > > I had the entire OD and transmission gone though before I installed it > at a local MG specialist that was probably 5 years ago. Since then I > have put less then a few thousand miles on the car. > > I don't want to buy a new solenoid if that can't be the problem... I > have changed the oil in it a few times hoping that might be it. > > Thanks! > > -- > Andrew From schultejim at msn.com Mon Aug 30 20:43:23 2010 From: schultejim at msn.com (schultejim at msn.com) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 02:43:23 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353EBF@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025F07353EBF@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <1327056742-1283222602-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-86986872-@bda177.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I found a hub from a friend in the Philly MG Club. I have it all cleaned up. I put it on dry and it fits very well. I just have to pack the bearings and get er done. Thanks for everyones help! Jim Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Councill, David" Sender: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:47:49 To: Max Heim Cc: Subject: Re: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B I sure hope we are not that desperate for a hub. I would hope that there are still plenty of good used hubs out there. I just replaced the front hubs on my 64B, converting from wire wheels to disc wheels to match the rear axle wheels. It was fairly straight forward but I had to obtain one front hub since I could only find one spare (from my 71BGT) amongst my growing collection of used parts. I got one from a Canadian salvage which also included the bearings, spacer, shims, washer and nut, all for $45 including shipping. A couple US salvage yards also offered to sell me one, at prices ranging from $50-$75. Wire wheel hubs will likely be a bit more expensive and run a chance of worn splines but new ones are available from Moss for about $120. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Max Heim Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 4:06 PM To: MG List Subject: Re: [Mgs] Front Wheel bearings 70B It is at least conceivably possible that your machine shop could repair this hub by adding a bead of weld then lathing it to the correct inside diameter and pressing the new race. I suggest this since I know quality hubs can be hard to find. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/schultejim at msn.com From mgb72 at airmail.net Mon Aug 30 20:46:05 2010 From: mgb72 at airmail.net (Chad) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:46:05 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. In-Reply-To: <4C7C616D.9060203@byu.net> References: <4C7C616D.9060203@byu.net> Message-ID: <000001cb48b6$ac89a260$059ce720$@net> I have never heard of that problem, I don't know what would cause that. Mine works no matter the temperature, live near Dallas, TX. We just had about 20 straight days over 100 degrees. -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Andrew B. Lundgren Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:57 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. When my OD gets hot it won't engage, it will actually disengage once it gets too hot. I had the entire OD and transmission gone though before I installed it at a local MG specialist that was probably 5 years ago. Since then I have put less then a few thousand miles on the car. I don't want to buy a new solenoid if that can't be the problem... I have changed the oil in it a few times hoping that might be it. Thanks! -- Andrew From lundgren at byu.net Mon Aug 30 21:36:53 2010 From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:36:53 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C7C78D5.3060003@byu.net> Normal engine 20w-50 to start with. Then I read some comments on using ND. I tried that, didn't make a bit of difference. So I went back to normal. Again with no difference. By hot I should say after I have been driving on a 80-100 deg day for about 30 minutes. You can feel the heat on the metal plate that the gear shifter comes though. It won't burn you, but you could make a cup of noodles on it. :) -- Andrew On 8/30/2010 8:35 PM, Max Heim wrote: > Well, what are you running for oil? > > I have to admit I don't see why it should get hot in the first place. > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > > on 8/30/10 6:57 PM, Andrew B. Lundgren at lundgren at byu.net wrote: > >> When my OD gets hot it won't engage, it will actually disengage once >> it gets too hot. >> >> I had the entire OD and transmission gone though before I installed it >> at a local MG specialist that was probably 5 years ago. Since then I >> have put less then a few thousand miles on the car. >> >> I don't want to buy a new solenoid if that can't be the problem... I >> have changed the oil in it a few times hoping that might be it. >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> Andrew > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/lundgren at byu.net From richard.ewald at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 22:49:39 2010 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:49:39 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. In-Reply-To: <4C7C78D5.3060003@byu.net> References: <4C7C78D5.3060003@byu.net> Message-ID: A bad electrical connection can have increasing resistance when it gets hot. We see this on modern cars and AC clutches. Works fine for 30 minutes or so then disengages due to too high a voltage drop. I wrote a piece for the Healey list on voltage drops and testing them, you can find it on www.healey6.com under technical. One suggestion, do the tests with every thing hot. Rick On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Andrew B. Lundgren wrote: > Normal engine 20w-50 to start with. Then I read some comments on using ND. > I tried that, didn't make a bit of difference. So I went back to normal. > Again with no difference. > > By hot I should say after I have been driving on a 80-100 deg day for about > 30 minutes. You can feel the heat on the metal plate that the gear shifter > comes though. It won't burn you, but you could make a cup of noodles on it. > :) > > -- > Andrew > > On 8/30/2010 8:35 PM, Max Heim wrote: >> >> Well, what are you running for oil? >> >> I have to admit I don't see why it should get hot in the first place. >> >> >> -- >> >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires >> >> >> >> on 8/30/10 6:57 PM, Andrew B. Lundgren at lundgren at byu.net wrote: >> >>> When my OD gets hot it won't engage, it will actually disengage once >>> it gets too hot. >>> >>> I had the entire OD and transmission gone though before I installed it >>> at a local MG specialist that was probably 5 years ago. Since then I >>> have put less then a few thousand miles on the car. >>> >>> I don't want to buy a new solenoid if that can't be the problem... I >>> have changed the oil in it a few times hoping that might be it. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> -- >>> Andrew >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/lundgren at byu.net > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com From ccrobins at ktc.com Tue Aug 31 02:21:15 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:21:15 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. In-Reply-To: <4C7C616D.9060203@byu.net> References: <4C7C616D.9060203@byu.net> Message-ID: <4C7CBB7B.9010700@ktc.com> Don't know which OD you have but there's a switch on mine that prevents the OD from engaging 1st & 2nd gears. This switch is adjustable as to the depth that is seats into the housing. Sometimes heat expansion will cause the switch contacts to open up. You might try turning it in a half turn or so. It's located on the upper left side of the gearbox. A quick check is to bypass that part of the wiring harness on the box. Just run a wire direct to the solenoid. I did this on my '70B so as to have OD in all 4 forward. Playing around..... Be careful though, this is also the reverse lockout switch, AIR. ;-) CR On 8/30/2010 8:57 PM, Andrew B. Lundgren wrote: > When my OD gets hot it won't engage, it will actually disengage once > it gets too hot. > > I had the entire OD and transmission gone though before I installed it > at a local MG specialist that was probably 5 years ago. Since then I > have put less then a few thousand miles on the car. > > I don't want to buy a new solenoid if that can't be the problem... I > have changed the oil in it a few times hoping that might be it. > > Thanks! > > -- > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 31 02:16:55 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:16:55 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: Message-ID: <48ED3F7250744870A919972E11027E73@paul> That would just reduce sales ... ----- Original Message ----- > Makes me wonder why it doesn't have a warning on the label "do not use > with > catalytic convertors". From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 31 02:15:53 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:15:53 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] OIL References: Message-ID: <20C46703085041AA910464CD7AF3C7BA@paul> Both API and ACEA specifications include limits for levels of zinc and phosphorus: http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/150916thAdd10308forprint-2.pdf I've seen (but can't now find) a statement that from some official body that modern formulations don't cause accelerated wear in older engines - not that I believed it given the amount of empirical evidence to the contrary. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > No, these are performance specs, not ingredient specs. And flat tappet > engine wear is no longer part of the performance spec, apparently. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 31 02:32:49 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:32:49 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive References: <659796.56556.qm@web37306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Definitely not! Neither do you lift off the throttle, in fact you get smoother changes with the throttle applied than with a trailing throttle, the early ODs had a vacuum switch and relay arrangement so that it could *only* be disengaged with the throttle on. Just flip the switch whenever you want. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Do you need to depress the clutch when using the overdrive button the > manual 4 > speed shifter knob? From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 31 02:45:12 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:45:12 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. References: <4C7C616D.9060203@byu.net> Message-ID: <5AAE116AB56D435DB4D962DFD3C352DA@paul> First thing is to tackle the easy stuff first and determine whether it is electrical or not, and the way to do that is connect an ammeter, positioned where you can see it, in series with the circuit. You don't say the year, but if you have the dash manual switch then it is easiest applied there by removing one of the spades. Remember that this circuit is unfused so you don't either of your ammeter connections coming into contact with anything else. If you have the column switch then interrupt the 2-way connector where the yellow wire from the main harness joins the gearbox harness. If you have a gear-lever switch then it will be a white/brown wire. You should get between 800mA at 12v, and just under an amp when running. If this suddenly drops when the OD drops out you know it is electrical, you then need a voltmeter or test-lamp applied to various places along the circuit to see where the break is. PaulH,. ----- Original Message ----- > When my OD gets hot it won't engage, it will actually disengage once it > gets too hot. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 31 03:58:09 2010 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:58:09 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. References: <4C7C616D.9060203@byu.net> <4C7CBB7B.9010700@ktc.com> Message-ID: And you will wreck the overdrive if you reverse with it bypassed and the manual switch on! ----- Original Message ----- > ... Be careful though, this is also the reverse lockout switch From thgun at comporium.net Tue Aug 31 07:11:07 2010 From: thgun at comporium.net (thgun at comporium.net) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] MGA pan removal Message-ID: <20100831091107.EWA45586@ms1.comporium.net> Can I drop the oil pan on my MGA 1500 to inspect the crank without lifting the engine? Tom Gunderson From barneymg at mgaguru.com Tue Aug 31 07:44:26 2010 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:44:26 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGA pan removal In-Reply-To: <20100831091107.EWA45586@ms1.comporium.net> References: <20100831091107.EWA45586@ms1.comporium.net> Message-ID: <394582.37202.qm@smtp111.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yup. See here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/engine/of106.htm At 09:11 AM 8/31/2010 -0400, Tom Gunderson wrote: >Can I drop the oil pan on my MGA 1500 to inspect the crank without >lifting the engine? From WSpohn4 at aol.com Tue Aug 31 07:50:53 2010 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:50:53 EDT Subject: [Mgs] MGA pan removal Message-ID: In a message dated 31/08/2010 6:35:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, thgun at comporium.net writes: Can I drop the oil pan on my MGA 1500 to inspect the crank without lifting the engine? Depends on how agile your fingers are - the front bolts are a bit tight. Not too hard to do though. Bill From eugeneb at nni.com Tue Aug 31 07:52:13 2010 From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:52:13 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Diesel oil like Rotella and others is probably a good alternative. It is recommended by some of the Land Rover mechanics for their "series" engines because of the zinc content. Gene 80 B On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 08:55:13 +0100 "Paul Hunt" wrote: > For me it's a classic Mini specialist that happens to be > nearby. But I'm not happy with claim and counter-claim > concerning ZDDP in VR1 (which concerns me more than the > viscosity) and one container that only contained a gallon > when marked with 5 litres, so I doubt I will buy it > again. My preferred oil is 15W/40 but specified for > Diesel engines as well as petrol (i.e. API CF-4, CF and > SJ)and therefore has more ZDDP. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Where does one buy this VR-1 oil? I am already having > trouble finding > > plain old 20W50. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ From peter.schauss at ngc.com Tue Aug 31 08:34:01 2010 From: peter.schauss at ngc.com (Schauss, Peter (IT Solutions)) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:34:01 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot Message-ID: I have found that the isolation switch which Moss is currently selling is a bit too short even when installed without shims. The original switch which came with my rebuilt gearbox/overdrive worked for about a year and then started to disconnect intermittently (and finally completely). A replacement from Moss which looked like the same switch lasted about a year. I replaced it with a switch scavenged from my old gearbox which, so far, has works. As an added advantage, the new switch gives me overdrive in third and fourth gears (but not in reverse or first and second). HTH, Peter Schauss 1980 MGB ======================================================================== ====== Message: 4 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:21:15 -0500 From: Charley & Peggy Robinson Subject: Re: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. To: "Andrew B. Lundgren" Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Message-ID: <4C7CBB7B.9010700 at ktc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't know which OD you have but there's a switch on mine that prevents the OD from engaging 1st & 2nd gears. This switch is adjustable as to the depth that is seats into the housing. Sometimes heat expansion will cause the switch contacts to open up. You might try turning it in a half turn or so. It's located on the upper left side of the gearbox. A quick check is to bypass that part of the wiring harness on the box. Just run a wire direct to the solenoid. I did this on my '70B so as to have OD in all 4 forward. Playing around..... Be careful though, this is also the reverse lockout switch, AIR. ;-) CR From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 31 11:14:45 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:14:45 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <20C46703085041AA910464CD7AF3C7BA@paul> Message-ID: The limit is so they don't foul cats (hence the problem); which is a performance spec re emissions. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/31/10 1:15 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > Both API and ACEA specifications include limits for levels of zinc and > phosphorus: > http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf > http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/150916thAdd10308forpri > nt-2.pdf > > I've seen (but can't now find) a statement that from some official body that > modern formulations don't cause accelerated wear in older engines - not that > I believed it given the amount of empirical evidence to the contrary. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> No, these are performance specs, not ingredient specs. And flat tappet >> engine wear is no longer part of the performance spec, apparently. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 31 11:17:38 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:17:38 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. In-Reply-To: <4C7CBB7B.9010700@ktc.com> Message-ID: Eek, I don't think I'd do that. Too easy to forget just once... Good suggestion about the switch. Mine had 2 or 3 paper washers under it to set the depth, so he could play with those. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/31/10 1:21 AM, Charley & Peggy Robinson at ccrobins at ktc.com wrote: > Don't know which OD you have but there's a switch on mine that prevents > the OD from engaging 1st & 2nd gears. This switch is adjustable as to > the depth that is seats into the housing. Sometimes heat expansion will > cause the switch contacts to open up. You might try turning it in a > half turn or so. It's located on the upper left side of the gearbox. A > quick check is to bypass that part of the wiring harness on the box. > Just run a wire direct to the solenoid. I did this on my '70B so as to > have OD in all 4 forward. Playing around..... Be careful though, this > is also the reverse lockout switch, AIR. ;-) > > CR From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 31 11:22:01 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:22:01 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Unfortunately, with increasingly stringent limits on diesel emissions, this oil is undergoing the same transformation that gas engine oil has gone through. So you can't assume that anymore. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/31/10 6:52 AM, Eugene Balinski at eugeneb at nni.com wrote: > Diesel oil like Rotella and others is probably a good > alternative. It is recommended by some of the Land Rover > mechanics for their "series" engines because of the zinc > content. > > Gene > 80 B > > On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 08:55:13 +0100 > "Paul Hunt" wrote: >> For me it's a classic Mini specialist that happens to be >> nearby. But I'm not happy with claim and counter-claim >> concerning ZDDP in VR1 (which concerns me more than the >> viscosity) and one container that only contained a gallon >> when marked with 5 litres, so I doubt I will buy it >> again. My preferred oil is 15W/40 but specified for >> Diesel engines as well as petrol (i.e. API CF-4, CF and >> SJ)and therefore has more ZDDP. >> >> PaulH. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> Where does one buy this VR-1 oil? I am already having >> trouble finding >>> plain old 20W50. From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Tue Aug 31 12:45:28 2010 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <836767.47321.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Uh oh, are we starting up a cat thread?? Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Max Heim To: MG List Sent: Tue, August 31, 2010 1:14:45 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL The limit is so they don't foul cats (hence the problem); which is a performance spec re emissions. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/31/10 1:15 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > Both API and ACEA specifications include limits for levels of zinc and > phosphorus: > http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf > http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/150916thAdd10308forpri > nt-2.pdf > > I've seen (but can't now find) a statement that from some official body that > modern formulations don't cause accelerated wear in older engines - not that > I believed it given the amount of empirical evidence to the contrary. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> No, these are performance specs, not ingredient specs. And flat tappet >> engine wear is no longer part of the performance spec, apparently. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From atweditor at aol.com Tue Aug 31 13:31:48 2010 From: atweditor at aol.com (atweditor at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] OIL (and cats) In-Reply-To: <836767.47321.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <836767.47321.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD175A49C6D78F-1BFC-19BD@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Dan, Glad you asked. My cat suddenly has started hacking up furballs while laying on top of my B-GT, and only on the MG. WTF? Jay Donoghue 72MGB-GT 66Mustang -----Original Message----- From: Dan DiBiase To: Max Heim ; MG List Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2010 3:05 pm Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL Uh oh, are we starting up a cat thread?? Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Max Heim To: MG List Sent: Tue, August 31, 2010 1:14:45 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL The limit is so they don't foul cats (hence the problem); which is a performance spec re emissions. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/31/10 1:15 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > Both API and ACEA specifications include limits for levels of zinc and > phosphorus: > http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pd f > http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/150916thAdd10308forpr i > nt-2.pdf > > I've seen (but can't now find) a statement that from some official body that > modern formulations don't cause accelerated wear in older engines - not that > I believed it given the amount of empirical evidence to the contrary. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> No, these are performance specs, not ingredient specs. And flat tappet >> engine wear is no longer part of the performance spec, apparently. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/atweditor at aol.com From palte at gmx.net Tue Aug 31 13:35:26 2010 From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:35:26 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] OIL, now Cats In-Reply-To: <836767.47321.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <836767.47321.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100831193449.6856018766C@autox.team.net> AGAIN? That was years ago IIRC... At 20:45 31-8-2010, you wrote: >Uh oh, are we starting up a cat thread?? > > Dan D From steve at coastaldatasystems.com Tue Aug 31 13:47:32 2010 From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:47:32 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <20C46703085041AA910464CD7AF3C7BA@paul> References: <20C46703085041AA910464CD7AF3C7BA@paul> Message-ID: <007201cb4945$5aa38cb0$0feaa610$@com> If you look at the amount of zinc in modern formulations as compared to that in the 50's, you will find they are about the same. Zinc in oil started rising in the late 60's, I don't recall the reason but I doubt it was due to flat tappets. My own take on the problems a few people started having has more to do with modern "offshore" metallurgy or the number of overhauls the cams have survived. -- Stephen West-Fisher Coastal Data Systems 727.831.1142 http://www.coastaldatasystems.com/ -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Paul Hunt Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 4:16 AM To: Max Heim; MG List Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL Both API and ACEA specifications include limits for levels of zinc and phosphorus: http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.p df http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/150916thAdd10308forp rint-2.pdf I've seen (but can't now find) a statement that from some official body that modern formulations don't cause accelerated wear in older engines - not that I believed it given the amount of empirical evidence to the contrary. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 31 14:19:22 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:19:22 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OIL In-Reply-To: <007201cb4945$5aa38cb0$0feaa610$@com> Message-ID: I think you will find that the increase in zinc tracked increasing compression ratios and higher valve spring pressures. Even the B engine was high compression and high revving compared to the typical sedan engine of the mid 50s. The typical 5- or 6-liter Detroit V8 went from maybe 140hp to well over 300hp in that period, almost entirely through higher CR and higher revs. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/31/10 12:47 PM, Stephen West-Fisher at steve at coastaldatasystems.com wrote: > If you look at the amount of zinc in modern formulations as compared to that > in the 50's, you will find they are about the same. Zinc in oil started > rising in the late 60's, I don't recall the reason but I doubt it was due to > flat tappets. > > My own take on the problems a few people started having has more to do with > modern "offshore" metallurgy or the number of overhauls the cams have > survived. > > -- > Stephen West-Fisher > Coastal Data Systems > 727.831.1142 > http://www.coastaldatasystems.com/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Paul Hunt > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 4:16 AM > To: Max Heim; MG List > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OIL > > Both API and ACEA specifications include limits for levels of zinc and > phosphorus: > http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.p > df > http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/150916thAdd10308forp > rint-2.pdf > > I've seen (but can't now find) a statement that from some official body that > > modern formulations don't cause accelerated wear in older engines - not that > > I believed it given the amount of empirical evidence to the contrary. From ccrobins at ktc.com Tue Aug 31 16:01:39 2010 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 17:01:39 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. In-Reply-To: References: <4C7C616D.9060203@byu.net> <4C7CBB7B.9010700@ktc.com> Message-ID: <4C7D7BC3.7080406@ktc.com> That's why I said "be careful." I'll give Andy credit for being smart enuff to do so. -- CR On 8/31/2010 4:58 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > And you will wreck the overdrive if you reverse with it bypassed and > the manual switch on! > > ----- Original Message ----- >> ... Be careful though, this is also the reverse lockout switch > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 31 16:34:28 2010 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:34:28 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. In-Reply-To: <4C7D7BC3.7080406@ktc.com> Message-ID: I find it so easy to forget that the switch is engaged, that I rigged an indicator light in the dash that glows when the switch is on. It happens frequently...cruising on the freeway, when suddenly traffic slows and you have to downshift, then you wind up taking the exit and tootling off in 2nd or 3rd, and don't realize the OD switch is on until you're reentering the freeway, pop back into 4th and suddenly bog down...scarey. I wouldn't dare disable the reverse lockout function. That would just be stupid. Hell, the cat might have jumped into the cockpit and flipped the switch in the driveway, just before I got into the car to back out... -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 8/31/10 3:01 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson at ccrobins at ktc.com wrote: > That's why I said "be careful." I'll give Andy credit for being smart > enuff to do so. -- CR > > On 8/31/2010 4:58 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: >> And you will wreck the overdrive if you reverse with it bypassed and >> the manual switch on! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> ... Be careful though, this is also the reverse lockout switch From lundgren at byu.net Tue Aug 31 16:38:39 2010 From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew B. Lundgren) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:38:39 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. In-Reply-To: <4C7D7BC3.7080406@ktc.com> References: <4C7C616D.9060203@byu.net> <4C7CBB7B.9010700@ktc.com> <4C7D7BC3.7080406@ktc.com> Message-ID: <4C7D846F.6010808@byu.net> That I knew! I guess I should have posted more info. I have a '70 B. From the numbers, the engine is out of a '77. I will have to go play around with some of these options. Thanks! On 8/31/2010 4:01 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote: > That's why I said "be careful." I'll give Andy credit for being smart > enuff to do so. -- CR > > On 8/31/2010 4:58 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: >> And you will wreck the overdrive if you reverse with it bypassed and >> the manual switch on! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> ... Be careful though, this is also the reverse lockout switch >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Tue Aug 31 18:11:33 2010 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 17:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <915795.2666.qm@web50908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hmmm, there's that cat thing again, twice in one day..... ;-) Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Max Heim To: MG List Sent: Tue, August 31, 2010 6:34:28 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. I find it so easy to forget that the switch is engaged, that I rigged an indicator light in the dash that glows when the switch is on. It happens frequently...cruising on the freeway, when suddenly traffic slows and you have to downshift, then you wind up taking the exit and tootling off in 2nd or 3rd, and don't realize the OD switch is on until you're reentering the freeway, pop back into 4th and suddenly bog down...scarey. I wouldn't dare disable the reverse lockout function. That would just be stupid. Hell, the cat might have jumped into the cockpit and flipped the switch in the driveway, just before I got into the car to back out... From david_breneman at yahoo.com Tue Aug 31 19:56:53 2010 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Interesting Haynes Manual Message-ID: <878253.41945.qm@web112119.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Just happened across this. Has anyone else seen it? I guess this hardware is old enough (more than 25 years) to qualify as exempt under US auto regulations... http://www.amazon.com/NASA-Apollo-Owners-Workshop-Manual/dp/1844256839 David Breneman david_breneman at yahoo.com From g.schnittke at comcast.net Tue Aug 31 20:11:32 2010 From: g.schnittke at comcast.net (Glenn Schnittke) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:11:32 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. Message-ID: <4C7DB654.3040407@comcast.net> I agree with the above comments about finding an electrical fault first. When you're troubleshooting you should always start with the easiest and most comprehensive tests. I had my LH overdrive go on me progressing from intermittent to completely dead and then move on to a dead battery until I found the bad feed wire from the alternator. It had slowly started breaking strand by strand until it no longer had the ampacity to feed anything on the car at all. Fixed the connection and all of a sudden the overdrive came back as if by magic. This is to say that, as with fuel problems, you should check for electrical problems first. That's probably where the problem is and it's much cheaper to fix. If it's not electrical, I want to know who rebuilt it for you so I don't have to go there. Glenn > Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. > > When my OD gets hot it won't engage, it will actually disengage once > it gets too hot. -- From shop at justbrits.com Tue Aug 31 21:02:25 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 22:02:25 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] [Fwd: [Spridgets] Good read] Message-ID: <4C7DC241.5040404@justbrits.com> This is a great read !! Enjoy !! -------- Original Message -------- Nice article about slow cars http://tinyurl.com/2cl53te _______________________________________________ From bachldrs at airadv.net Tue Aug 31 21:34:50 2010 From: bachldrs at airadv.net (Allen Bachelder) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 23:34:50 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Overdrive does not work when it is hot. Message-ID: Another way to skin this cat (if I may use that metaphor) if you wish to bypass the lockout switch, use a relay wired to the reverse light switch such that when the primary is energized (by the reverse light circuit), the secondary (wired to the overdrive) is shut down. This option gives you overdrive in any gear (should you ever want it), but disables the overdrive when the car is in reverse. I have not done this, but I do have an indicator light for the overdrive (as does Max), which might warn you, should the reverse lamp circuit, or the relay fail. I got this idea from a vintage racer friend who likes to have OD available in any gear - particularly 2nd - while racing. He can also energize the relay from a cockpit switch for fast engagement/disengagement. Another advantage is that a reverse lamp switch is a heckuva lot easier to replace than an OD lock-out switch! FWIW, Allen ******************************************* Allen H. Bachelder =iii=< Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs Harbor Beach, Michigan 48441, USA 53 TD, 58 ZBV, 63 Farina Mk IV, 65 MGB, 69 C/GT, 73 B/GT http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs ******************************************* From ddarby at centurytel.net Tue Aug 31 22:34:31 2010 From: ddarby at centurytel.net (David F. Darby) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 23:34:31 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Good read In-Reply-To: <4C7DC241.5040404@justbrits.com> References: <4C7DC241.5040404@justbrits.com> Message-ID: Yea, verily yea. David -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Shop at " Just Brits " Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 10:02 PM Subject: [Mgs] [Fwd: [Spridgets] Good read] This is a great read !! Enjoy !! -------- Original Message -------- Nice article about slow cars http://tinyurl.com/2cl53te From palte at gmx.net Tue Aug 31 23:42:46 2010 From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 07:42:46 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Interesting Haynes Manual In-Reply-To: <878253.41945.qm@web112119.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <878253.41945.qm@web112119.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100901054246.187740@gmx.net> > Just happened across this. Has anyone else seen it? I guess > this hardware is old enough (more than 25 years) to qualify as > exempt under US auto regulations... > > http://www.amazon.com/NASA-Apollo-Owners-Workshop-Manual/dp/1844256839 > An equally unusual Haynes manual can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Manual-Practical-Step---step/dp/1844250865/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283319625&sr=1-1 -- GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 fC