From ptrmgb at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 21:45:35 2007 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 22:45:35 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] new list Message-ID: <22368FE1-CC3C-4225-9955-7C11B71BD78C@gmail.com> Looks like Mark's brought up the new Mailman list. Welcome to the Mgs at autox.team.net mailing list! To post to this list, send your email to: mgs at autox.team.net Paul Root ptrmgb at gmail.com 77 MGB 99 OBS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20070607/ffdf4448/attachment.htm From mark at bradakis.com Thu Jun 7 21:59:53 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:59:53 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] List changes Message-ID: <4668D439.7030503@bradakis.com> As I alluded to last week, I've switched mgs at autox.team.net from majordomo to mailman list management software. Some things will be different, some will be the same. As before, if you want to send mail to mgs at autox.team.net you send mail to mgs at autox.team.net - you'd be surprised at how many folks can NOT figure that one out! With Mailman, managing your subscription should be more web friendly. You can go to the web pages listed in the messages and muck about with your settings. One major change is that there is now just the one list mgs at autox.team.net, the list mgs-digest at autox.team.net no longer exists. But this doesn't mean there is no digest format, it just means that one doesn't need to unsubscribe from one list and subscribe to the other just to switch formats. Go to the list pages, log in, and select digest or non-digest as you desire. Another handy option is the 'nomail' feature. If you are going to be away from your email for a while, you can set your membership to nomail, and then back to regular delivery upon your return. A bit easier than having to unsubscribe and then subscribe again. A useful way to make use of the nomail feature is to enable submissions from multiple addresses. For example, one might want to subscribe a-student at diploma.mill.edu as your main address. But sometimes you send mail from work, so you can subscribe busybee at monolith.com and set the second address to nomail. So messages you send from either address will pass the membership test, but you won't get multiple copies of each list message. RealSoonNow I'll have a web page that covers some more of the various differences and features. mjb. ps: Wonder what sort of car I would drive if my middle name was George and not Joseph? From Aeseeyou at aol.com Thu Jun 7 23:23:41 2007 From: Aeseeyou at aol.com (Aeseeyou at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 01:23:41 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Cool! Message-ID: Welcome graciously accepted! Albert Escalante Central Coast British Car Club~CA. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20070608/4f9cf29e/attachment.htm From Allan.Thompson at ntlworld.com Fri Jun 8 02:57:53 2007 From: Allan.Thompson at ntlworld.com (Allan.Thompson) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:57:53 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] List changes In-Reply-To: <4668D439.7030503@bradakis.com> References: <4668D439.7030503@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <018701c7a9ab$1ca14020$6401a8c0@Desktop> Had a quick look and that is a good step forward. Will look forward to seeing how this develops. Thanks for your work - I am sure that we all appreciate it even if we don't tell you often enough! Allan From FlynShoot at aol.com Fri Jun 8 06:11:23 2007 From: FlynShoot at aol.com (FlynShoot at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:11:23 EDT Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? Message-ID: My local tire dealer does have 175/75R14's in stock but he does have 175/65R14 and 185/70R14. I am thinking about getting the 175/65s but am concerned about rubbing. I am running Rostyles. Any suggestions or ideas? Any other suggested sizes? Thanx. DC Smith _flynshoot at aol.com_ (mailto:flynshoot at aol.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20070608/e68e1a5e/attachment.htm From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 8 07:49:55 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:49:55 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? References: Message-ID: <005701c7a9d5$7e7f5230$0200a8c0@Three> 175/14s were standard for the V8 so you shouldn't have any rubbing, even with reduced clearance on the LHS as mine has. I've seen 195s on a V8 conversion, but they were tight. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > I am thinking about getting the 175/65s but am concerned about rubbing. I > am > running Rostyles. From doddk at mossmotors.com Fri Jun 8 09:56:29 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:56:29 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C4F6146@kb1.mossmotors.com> The 185/70 - 14 is going to be a good fit on the Rostyle wheel. No problem with rubbing and it was stock fitment on the Limited Edition cars. The Rostyle wheel is 5" wide which is within spec. for a 185/70. I don't recommend using 185/70 -14 tires on stock 4.5" wire wheels as they tend to roll around more than the alternate 175 or 165 series tires. 175/65 -14" tires are going to be really small and will cause havoc with your highway cruising, I recommend against using them. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of FlynShoot at aol.com > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 5:11 AM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? > > My local tire dealer does have 175/75R14's in stock but he does have > 175/65R14 and 185/70R14. > > I am thinking about getting the 175/65s but am concerned about rubbing. I > am > running Rostyles. > > Any suggestions or ideas? Any other suggested sizes? > > Thanx. > > DC Smith > _flynshoot at aol.com_ (mailto:flynshoot at aol.com) From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 8 09:53:21 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 08:53:21 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Concerned about rubbing what? 175/75 and 175/65 are the same width -- 175mm. 185/70 is 10mm wider, obviously. 175R14 has no clearance problems on a 66 B roadster. Not sure of your application. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/8/07 5:11 AM, FlynShoot at aol.com at FlynShoot at aol.com wrote: > My local tire dealer does have 175/75R14's in stock but he does have > 175/65R14 and 185/70R14. > > I am thinking about getting the 175/65s but am concerned about rubbing. I am > running Rostyles. > > Any suggestions or ideas? Any other suggested sizes? > > Thanx. > > DC Smith > _flynshoot at aol.com_ (mailto:flynshoot at aol.com) > From palte at gmx.net Fri Jun 8 12:08:25 2007 From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:08:25 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070608180829.0AC317000083@mwinf6106.orange.nl> At 14:11 8-6-2007, you wrote: >My local tire dealer does have 175/75R14's in stock but he does have >175/65R14 and 185/70R14. > >I am thinking about getting the 175/65s but am concerned about rubbing. I am >running Rostyles. > >Any suggestions or ideas? Any other suggested sizes? > >Thanx. > Please note that wider tires may cause much stiffer steering. BTDT! Bert From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Fri Jun 8 13:33:14 2007 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 21:33:14 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? References: <20070608180829.0AC317000083@mwinf6106.orange.nl> Message-ID: <003001c7aa03$db990190$1e00a8c0@uw471de61b465c> Hi Bert, You may try my 1971 BGT with 185/70 R14 on w/w. These are not causing heavy stearing! Cheers, Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert Palte" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? > At 14:11 8-6-2007, you wrote: >>My local tire dealer does have 175/75R14's in stock but he does have >>175/65R14 and 185/70R14. >> >>I am thinking about getting the 175/65s but am concerned about rubbing. I >>am >>running Rostyles. >> >>Any suggestions or ideas? Any other suggested sizes? >> >>Thanx. >> > > Please note that wider tires may cause much stiffer steering. > BTDT! > > Bert > From barrie at look.ca Fri Jun 8 13:36:51 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:36:51 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have 185/70/R14 on my MGB GT V8 with Dayton 5" wire wheels and they are a perfect size....and you can get good prices for this size At 11:53 AM 6/8/2007, Max Heim wrote: >Concerned about rubbing what? > >175/75 and 175/65 are the same width -- 175mm. > >185/70 is 10mm wider, obviously. > >175R14 has no clearance problems on a 66 B roadster. Not sure of your >application. > > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > >on 6/8/07 5:11 AM, FlynShoot at aol.com at FlynShoot at aol.com wrote: > > > My local tire dealer does have 175/75R14's in stock but he does have > > 175/65R14 and 185/70R14. > > > > I am thinking about getting the 175/65s but am concerned about > rubbing. I am > > running Rostyles. > > > > Any suggestions or ideas? Any other suggested sizes? > > > > Thanx. > > > > DC Smith > > _flynshoot at aol.com_ (mailto:flynshoot at aol.com) > > > > >_______________________________________________ >barrie at look.ca > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From barrie at look.ca Fri Jun 8 14:46:01 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:46:01 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? In-Reply-To: <003001c7aa03$db990190$1e00a8c0@uw471de61b465c> References: <20070608180829.0AC317000083@mwinf6106.orange.nl> <003001c7aa03$db990190$1e00a8c0@uw471de61b465c> Message-ID: I have 185/70/R14s on wires and steering is not too bad. But I have sent away for that Targett kit which changes the caster from 7 to 2.5 degrees, which apparently is what it should be for radials. Those who have tried the mod are very happy. At 03:33 PM 6/8/2007, Hans Duinhoven wrote: >Hi Bert, > >You may try my 1971 BGT with 185/70 R14 on w/w. >These are not causing heavy stearing! > >Cheers, > >Hans > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bert Palte" >To: >Cc: >Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:08 PM >Subject: Re: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? > > > > At 14:11 8-6-2007, you wrote: > >>My local tire dealer does have 175/75R14's in stock but he does have > >>175/65R14 and 185/70R14. > >> > >>I am thinking about getting the 175/65s but am concerned about rubbing. I > >>am > >>running Rostyles. > >> > >>Any suggestions or ideas? Any other suggested sizes? > >> > >>Thanx. > >> > > > > Please note that wider tires may cause much stiffer steering. > > BTDT! > > > > Bert > > > >_______________________________________________ >barrie at look.ca > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From John.Hed at faa.gov Fri Jun 8 17:00:37 2007 From: John.Hed at faa.gov (John.Hed at faa.gov) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 16:00:37 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] John Hed is TDY. Back in on Monday 6/18 Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 06/04/2007 and will not return until 06/18/2007. I am out on travel and will be back in the office on Monday June 18. I will occasionally be checking email and phone mail. If emergency, call my cell: 253-334-6779. From hardt at sonic.net Fri Jun 8 17:18:02 2007 From: hardt at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:18:02 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] John Hed is TDY. Back in on Monday 6/18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4669E3AA.9020003@sonic.net> Heh, here we go again. I remember many years back receiving hundreds of emails from this list when a member's out-of-office autoreply threw the mail manager into an endless loop. Ron 58 MGA John.Hed at faa.gov wrote: > I am out on travel and will be back in the office on Monday June 18. I > will occasionally be checking email and phone mail. If emergency, call my > cell: 253-334-6779. From WJHS1960 at comcast.net Fri Jun 8 17:37:28 2007 From: WJHS1960 at comcast.net (WJHS1960) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 18:37:28 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] John Hed is TDY. Back in on Monday 6/18 References: <4669E3AA.9020003@sonic.net> Message-ID: <00af01c7aa25$fa2f1550$6501a8c0@actualshop> <> Yeah, me too. At least NOW with Mark using MailMan as "list handler" you can opt for "noMail" and NOT have to un-sub. ASSUMING (yes, I know what it means) You have: KEPT THE DIRECTIONS to access your acccount. And I will BET less than 10% have -:( ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20070608/d6e489a7/attachment.htm From Rabeys at aol.com Fri Jun 8 18:51:16 2007 From: Rabeys at aol.com (Rabeys at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 20:51:16 EDT Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question Message-ID: Can't seem to get my signals to work. The hazard switch works and all the lights blink, but when I try left and right, nothing. I checked every ground I can think of and cleaned the connections. I just changed the relay and it worked for a short time, but only the right signal. The right would blink, but it seemed slow. The left didn't blink at all initially, but the lights came on and stayed on. Every so often it would blink, about once every 10 seconds or something weird like that. Now neither works. I'm at a loss. I'm not sure if its related, but the washer switch isnt working either. The signal switch is pretty new and all connections look great. I even tried a different switch from my parts car. Everything worked except the turn signals again. Seems to coincidental. I'm sure its something simple. Any ideas? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20070608/04c589cb/attachment.htm From barrie at look.ca Fri Jun 8 18:48:03 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:48:03 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] John Hed is TDY. Back in on Monday 6/18 In-Reply-To: <00af01c7aa25$fa2f1550$6501a8c0@actualshop> References: <4669E3AA.9020003@sonic.net> <00af01c7aa25$fa2f1550$6501a8c0@actualshop> Message-ID: I thought I would just add to the pot by saying I am not out of the office but in it - However, I shall not be replying to any emails just out of spite. I shall probably, well maybe, be in next week too and I may answer emails then - but then I may not. In case of emergency try phoning my cell phone, the number of which I will not give out. Does anyone really care a damn? At 07:37 PM 6/8/2007, WJHS1960 wrote: ><hundreds of emails from this list when a member's out-of-office >autoreply threw the mail manager into an endless loop.>> > >Yeah, me too. > >At least NOW with Mark using MailMan as "list handler" you can opt >for "noMail" and NOT have to un-sub. ASSUMING (yes, I know what >it means) You have: >KEPT THE DIRECTIONS to access your acccount. And I will BET >less than 10% have -:( ! >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: >http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20070608/d6e489a7/attachment.htm > >_______________________________________________ >barrie at look.ca > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 8 19:01:54 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:01:54 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bad ground at the lamps? Mine are getting slower and more hesitant to switch on. Time for the annual cleanup... -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/8/07 5:51 PM, Rabeys at aol.com at Rabeys at aol.com wrote: > Can't seem to get my signals to work. The hazard switch works and all the > lights blink, but when I try left and right, nothing. I checked every ground > I can think of and cleaned the connections. I just changed the relay and it > worked for a short time, but only the right signal. The right would blink, > but it seemed slow. The left didn't blink at all initially, but the lights > came on and stayed on. Every so often it would blink, about once every 10 > seconds or something weird like that. Now neither works. I'm at a loss. > I'm > not sure if its related, but the washer switch isnt working either. The > signal switch is pretty new and all connections look great. I even tried a > different switch from my parts car. Everything worked except the turn > signals > again. Seems to coincidental. I'm sure its something simple. Any ideas? > From doddk at mossmotors.com Fri Jun 8 19:11:21 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 18:11:21 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] John Hed is TDY. Back in on Monday 6/18 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C4F6250@kb1.mossmotors.com> Nope. Still in his office Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Barrie Robinson > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 5:48 PM > To: WJHS1960; mgs > Subject: Re: [Mgs] John Hed is TDY. Back in on Monday 6/18 > > > I thought I would just add to the pot by saying I am not out of the > office but in it - However, I shall not be replying to any emails > just out of spite. I shall probably, well maybe, be in next week too > and I may answer emails then - but then I may not. In case of > emergency try phoning my cell phone, the number of which I will not give > out. > > Does anyone really care a damn? From doddk at mossmotors.com Fri Jun 8 19:23:23 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 18:23:23 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C4F6251@kb1.mossmotors.com> Max may have it. When the hazard switch is on and the lamps flashing check to make sure they are all bright. All four lamps may be enough to trigger the hazard flasher unit, but two lamps with poor grounds may cause problems for the TS flasher. It could also be the hazard switch. In the OFF position it connects the TS circuit to the TS flasher feed. If the switch contacts are poor, the hazards could be working fine, but the TS can have problems. Try snapping the Hazard switch on and off a few times. It is self wiping and may clean up. If this doesn't work, it's going to be the slow slog of tracking bad connections with a voltmeter. Not easy as you have some power, but just not enough to get the TS flasher working correctly. Good luck. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Max Heim > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:02 PM > To: MG List > Subject: Re: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question > > Bad ground at the lamps? > > Mine are getting slower and more hesitant to switch on. Time for the > annual > cleanup... > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > on 6/8/07 5:51 PM, Rabeys at aol.com at Rabeys at aol.com wrote: > > > Can't seem to get my signals to work. The hazard switch works and all > the > > lights blink, but when I try left and right, nothing. I checked every > ground > > I can think of and cleaned the connections. I just changed the relay > and it > > worked for a short time, but only the right signal. The right would > blink, > > but it seemed slow. The left didn't blink at all initially, but the > lights > > came on and stayed on. Every so often it would blink, about once every > 10 > > seconds or something weird like that. Now neither works. I'm at a > loss. > > I'm > > not sure if its related, but the washer switch isnt working either. > The > > signal switch is pretty new and all connections look great. I even > tried a > > different switch from my parts car. Everything worked except the turn > > signals > > again. Seems to coincidental. I'm sure its something simple. Any > ideas? From muses at cableone.net Fri Jun 8 19:43:41 2007 From: muses at cableone.net (Todd Mullins) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 20:43:41 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I absolutely concur with the 185/70R14 recommendation. I've been using them on my Rostyles for years, with absolutely no clearance problems. You get a wider patch on the pavement, which helps handling, and the slight diameter increase compensates for the fact that most manufacturers calibrate their speedometers a bit conservatively. Plus, availability is still very good. 175/65R14 is right out. -t Todd Mullins '74 MGB Tourer in pieces '84 Bertone X1/9 with dinky 165/70R13s '87 VW Cabriolet with nice 195/60R14s > From: "Dodd, Kelvin" > > The 185/70 - 14 is going to be a good fit on the Rostyle wheel. No > problem with rubbing and it was stock fitment on the Limited Edition > cars. > > The Rostyle wheel is 5" wide which is within spec. for a 185/70. > > I don't recommend using 185/70 -14 tires on stock 4.5" wire wheels as > they tend to roll around more than the alternate 175 or 165 series > tires. > > 175/65 -14" tires are going to be really small and will cause havoc > with > your highway cruising, I recommend against using them. From rolindsay at yahoo.com Fri Jun 8 20:01:21 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 19:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] More interior pictures and the next challenge Message-ID: <530342.43860.qm@web82305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Friends, I've taken a few more pictures. The first two are of the interior. I have installed the console and the sunvisors. Here are the interior pictures. http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0630.JPG http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0631.JPG Eventually, if the car drives as nicely as I expect it to (it is an MGB after all), I may replace the carpets and invest a little more than sweat and odds-n-ends. And now, a little introduction to the NEXT system I shall attack. http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0632.JPG You can see that some jury-rigging has been done. The spacer between the pedals is water pipe and the spacing is done with a hose clamp! No wonder the pedals wobble! http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0633.JPG I think we can make a little progress here. The brake valve/switch also needs a little attention. http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0634.JPG . Regards, rick From Rabeys at aol.com Fri Jun 8 20:10:22 2007 From: Rabeys at aol.com (Rabeys at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:10:22 EDT Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question Message-ID: thanks for the feedback...i will check those things and let you know what happens. steph ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20070608/82fe1b59/attachment.htm From mg1948 at verizon.net Fri Jun 8 20:13:42 2007 From: mg1948 at verizon.net (Phil Marcell) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:13:42 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] [MGS] MGB tie rod end removal References: <001c01c7a707$60d749c0$6500a8c0@Edscomputer> <018f01c7a787$66c5a180$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <019401c7aa3b$cd53c4c0$6400a8c0@Phil> I had a problem of getting mine off. Guy overheard me discussing it & volunteered his two cents. Said he & his brother had been in car business 40 years. Said you can't get it off hitting the stud end but hit the part it goes into several times until it comes loose. It worked on the third hit! Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Ed Woods" ; Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [MGS] MGB tie rod end removal > See http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/wn_suspensionframe.htm > > and click on Rack Gaiters/Track-rod Ends. I've tried various cheaper > tools in the past including the 'pickle fork' but either they don't work > or they damage the rubber boots on the track-rod ends. Even this tool had > to be modified as described as the force on the bolt was at an angle and > not straight up through the line of the bolt. Slacken the nut so it just > covers the end of the thread to protect it from the pressure of the tool, > if you don't do that you can distort the threads on the stud, bad enough > if the nut is still on the stud, a real pain if you have completely > removed it as you then have to re-cut the threads with a small hacksaw to > be able to get the nut back on again. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Anyone know of a readily available tool for removing the MGB tie rods >> other than a BFH? That is a non-destructive tool? > > Your messages not reaching the list? > Check out http://www.team.net/posting.html > > === Help keep Team.Net on the air > === http://www.team.net/donate.html > > === unsubscribe/change address requests to majordomo at autox.team.net or > try > === http://www.team.net/cgi-bin/majorcool > === Other lists available at > === http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo > === Archives at http://www.team.net/archive > === http://www.team.net/the-local > === Edit your replies! From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Sat Jun 9 00:22:16 2007 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 08:22:16 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] More interior pictures and the next challenge References: <530342.43860.qm@web82305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901c7aa5e$86d45aa0$1e00a8c0@uw471de61b465c> I recommend to take apart the entire pedal box and have the box and its content overhauled. While the box is out of the car you will notice how brke fluid ruins the paint. When left in this state you will have serious rot spots. My ex-Calif GT did not have any rust except around the pedal box. A total fixup made everything fine. Has to replace the clutch master and the brake master had to be overhauled. Sold that one for good $ and bought a enw one - as the car was prayed to new anyway. If you like I can send some pics of these parts. Cheers, Hans 71 GT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lindsay" To: "MGS" Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:01 AM Subject: [Mgs] More interior pictures and the next challenge > Hello Friends, > I've taken a few more pictures. The first two are > of the interior. I have installed the console and the > sunvisors. Here are the interior pictures. > http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0630.JPG > http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0631.JPG > Eventually, if the car drives as nicely as I expect > it to (it is an MGB after all), I may replace the > carpets and invest a little more than sweat and > odds-n-ends. > > And now, a little introduction to the NEXT system I > shall attack. http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0632.JPG > You can see that some jury-rigging has been done. The > spacer between the pedals is water pipe and the > spacing is done with a hose clamp! No wonder the > pedals wobble! http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0633.JPG > I think we can make a little progress here. > The brake valve/switch also needs a little > attention. http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0634.JPG . > > Regards, > > rick From battanhr at comcast.net Sat Jun 9 10:55:02 2007 From: battanhr at comcast.net (Howard Battan) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 09:55:02 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <026901c7aab6$ec5239d0$6600a8c0@XPS410> I had similar problems with my '79B. I checked all the wiring and grounds, replaced the switch with new. Nothing. Then I put in a new signal flasher, and it has worked perfectly since. ------------------------ Behalf Of Rabeys at aol.com Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question Can't seem to get my signals to work. The hazard switch works and all the lights blink, but when I try left and right, nothing. I checked every ground From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sat Jun 9 10:53:38 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 09:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) Message-ID: <212588.4627.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Gang, I have been considering selling/trading in my 10-year-old M-B SL500 daily driver in for an '08 Solstice GXP. You guys have any experience with this car? My Mercedes is fantastic and it is in great shape, but it is 10 years old. It would take perhaps $12k + my car to work the deal. Then again, the Pontiac is dropping about $10k per year and the M-B, about $4k per year. The SL will floor-out at about $12k and stay there, if the older SLs are any guide. The GXP will eventually floor out in a junkyard. Your thoughts (because I respect your opinions)? Regards, rick From bilking at comcast.net Sat Jun 9 11:08:09 2007 From: bilking at comcast.net (bill) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 13:08:09 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: <212588.4627.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <212588.4627.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466ADE79.5030607@comcast.net> Rick Lindsay wrote: > > Your thoughts (because I respect your opinions)? > > > Knowing the Solstice is made down the street at the Wilmington DE assembly plant and knowing the plants proximity to Steve's Centerville Inn and also knowing how Steve sets up the bar with assigned seating and drinks lined up at lunchtime I'd think twice before buying a Solstice. But I'm sure it's the same at all the assembly plants. Besides, how memorable are really nice vintage SL's when you see them on the road, they catch your eye. Not as sweet as an old Type 1 Vdub but pretty nice for German iron. Just my opinion. 59 MGA 69 Penton 125 ISDT 79 Yamaha XS650F From WSpohn4 at aol.com Sat Jun 9 11:10:00 2007 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 13:10:00 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) Message-ID: In a message dated 09/06/2007 9:56:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rolindsay at yahoo.com writes: Then again, the Pontiac is dropping about $10k per year and the M-B, about $4k per year. The SL will floor-out at about $12k and stay there, if the older SLs are any guide. The GXP will eventually floor out in a junkyard. Your thoughts (because I respect your opinions)? ____________________________________ It isn't all about money. Just decide which one will give you more enjoyment. If you are tired of the MB and want a new toy, go for it - or wait a year or two and get a GSX when it comes off lease. I am actually thinking of the same car as a potential replacement for my 88 Fiero (which I run with non-stock turbo engine). I am trying to figure out if I could get equivalent power to weight in a Solstice, starting with the regular or GSX. I'd need another 45 bhp on the GSX, or 130 on the regular. Seems possible. I have no idea how they are turboing the regular model with after market kits to high psi when the danged things are over 10:1 already.... Bill. From sumton at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 9 11:19:02 2007 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 12:19:02 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) References: <212588.4627.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002f01c7aaba$478ed350$8115a8c0@Garage.local> my theory of life: buy a used honda accord (i paid 9k for a 5 year old 5 speed fully loaded accord with 80k miles 3 three years ago). they are fun to drive and reliable to the nth degree. buy tires, gas, and oil. if you must there is a world of aftermarket parts. then - buy an mg, a mb, a bmw, an alfa, a triumph, and/or a whatever, and drive it on weekends, nice evenings, etc. you'll get to work every day, in comfort, and your depreciation loss is very small at that point. you'll have a fun car to drive when your not in traffic, trying to get to work, etc. don't ever buy a new car unless you can spend an entire day bargaining away the rediculous profit they make on you!!!! my 2c ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lindsay" To: "MGS" Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 11:53 AM Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) > Hello Gang, > I have been considering selling/trading in my > 10-year-old M-B SL500 daily driver in for an '08 > Solstice GXP. You guys have any experience with this > car? My Mercedes is fantastic and it is in great > shape, but it is 10 years old. It would take perhaps > $12k + my car to work the deal. Then again, the > Pontiac is dropping about $10k per year and the M-B, > about $4k per year. The SL will floor-out at about > $12k and stay there, if the older SLs are any guide. > The GXP will eventually floor out in a junkyard. > Your thoughts (because I respect your opinions)? From awhitema at panix.com Sat Jun 9 12:19:36 2007 From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 11:19:36 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: <002f01c7aaba$478ed350$8115a8c0@Garage.local> References: <212588.4627.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002f01c7aaba$478ed350$8115a8c0@Garage.local> Message-ID: <3267C484-E853-4A78-B86F-2ECE15D25816@panix.com> On Jun 9, 2007, at 10:19 AM, oliver wrote: > my theory of life: Since you started it, I'll give mine too. my theory in life: Buy an MG. Buy it early, and buy one that is in reasonably good nick. Drive it, every day. Every. Day. Since you bought one in good mechanical shape, and you are driving it every day, you'll hear things start to go bad and fix them before they break. You'll have fun going to work, fun on the weekend, and the miles just go by. After a few years, when you discover perhaps it would be nice to share your car with a passenger AND some stuff, buy another car. Buy it new, and drive it into the ground. Don't worry about depreciation, that only matters if you *sell* the car. Enjoy life, and one of the joys of life is a car with a fresh odometer and a history that you are fully responsible for. No matter what, always buy a vehicle that makes the *journey* at least as important as the *destination*. ObSubject: Personally, unless the Merc has serious issues, I'd keep it. -- Aaron Whiteman -- http://www.panix.com/~awhitema/ '75 B (red for now), HIF4 carbs, 80000 miles '06 Subaru Impreza Outback, 6000 miles '05 Specialized Allez Elite, 700 miles From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Sat Jun 9 12:29:40 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 11:29:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: <212588.4627.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <378945.85022.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Rick Lindsay wrote: Hello Gang, I have been considering selling/trading in my 10-year-old M-B SL500 daily driver in for an '08 Solstice GXP. --------------------- Well, everyone that is telling you to buy an MGB obviously hasn't been paying attention to your notes from the past week, Rick! ;-) I personally like the Saturn Sky Red Line - the styling is a bit sharper, a little less 'amorphous' than the Solstice. But I'd check one out first, there are supposedly some ergonomic issues with the cars (placement of switches, etc.). Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sat Jun 9 13:14:33 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 12:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Decided to keep the SL500 (NMGB content Message-ID: <671787.36451.qm@web82301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks everyone, I really enjoy the SL. I spend over an hour per day in my daily driver and the SL500 is comfortable and had GOBBS of torque - if a little heavy. I've pretty much decided that for the $12k difference in price - discounting all the depreciation issues - I can keep the SL looking good, running well and me happy for years. I guess I'm still a Mercedes guy. :-) Now how the hell can I write that?! I drive an M-B daily. I have a Ferrari under the car cover in garage bay III. A L-R Disco-II to haul junk (read: Nancy's vehicle), a BMW 740iL with my son in college and the ongoing MGB restoration. :-o Thank you for your opinions and advice, everyone. regards, rick From WJHS1960 at comcast.net Sat Jun 9 14:29:48 2007 From: WJHS1960 at comcast.net (WJHS1960) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 15:29:48 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Decided to keep the SL500 (NMGB content References: <671787.36451.qm@web82301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01ed01c7aad4$ed26a530$6501a8c0@actualshop> Rick: My .02.! I HATE new cars. No character with NO "looks". My daily driver puirchased via ebay http://tinyurl.com/2koohr !! I paid EXACTLY $10,000. for it, flew to CA to pick-up, and spent right around $1200 to get it home (made some sales call on way back so wrote off entire trip!! LOL). Don't have more than $500 spent on repairs since and she passed Smog Test (but won't pass gas station - 500hp with 2BBL). I love her. Gotta up date & add pics to above. Exact same car was previous identical to above for 14 years. Now NEEDS complete ground-up resto (car available for $2500) and purchased about 15 blocks from me for $4700. I don't think that over the years I spent even close to a grand for "repairs". Think I got my money out of it?? Now the .02 part. LOL I would look for something like below and e-bay the MB where I in your shoes!! http://tinyurl.com/23fd89 Second fav. http://tinyurl.com/2yy5av http://tinyurl.com/ynkddc http://tinyurl.com/2a5w3u http://tinyurl.com/2kkl4f Just add A/C to this one!! My fav. There is about 7000 other listings to go thru so I stopped at page 11. Me From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sat Jun 9 17:33:59 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 16:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Just a few pictures Message-ID: <646387.60042.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello All, Quick note. http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0635.JPG wheel on, seat out, http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0636.JPG and carpet under repair. Two seat halves, http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0637.JPG and http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0638.JPG . And a final picture of the dash. And although you can't see it in this picture, the new steering column surround that I got from Peter looks GREAT! Thank you Peter! http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0639.JPG From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sat Jun 9 20:26:41 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 19:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Formula 1 (No MG content Message-ID: <567492.3334.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Friends, A few months ago I wrote a little piece about working a Grand Prix weekend as a pit/grid marshal. I received a number of very nice replies saying that they enjoyed learning what the Formula 1 circus looks like from the inside. Here is another crack at that same idea but this time as a random series of pictures from last year. I'll point out a couple I like then turn you loose to view them all. Here's a good starting place; Schumaker's office: http://www.aubard.us/F1/18.jpg My daughter and her husband in casual mode before going to work. They're marshals too, as is Rui Gigante (MGS Listmember with an MGA, an MGB-GT and a Ferrari 328GTS) but they're not working this year's event: http://www.aubard.us/F1/22.jpg Same two at work: http://www.aubard.us/F1/3.jpg That's me working pit-out: http://www.aubard.us/F1/4.jpg and again, this time on the radio to Race Control: http://www.aubard.us/F1/6.jpg The photographer and fellow marshal, responsible for these pictures, Dr. Brian Manning: http://www.aubard.us/F1/2.jpg And our SPEED hero, Steve: http://www.aubard.us/F1/57.jpg Enough of the silliness. Here's the link (to make it easier for you) to the directory containing the pictures. Enjoy. http://www.aubard.us/F1 This year I am working pit-in and operating communications from that station. We have a hard land-line there just to insure redundancy with the radios. Our goal, and the reason for communications, is to guarantee safety and rules-compliance between pit-in and the scrutineer station in garage 1. The FIA have their speed radar there also but that's not our concern. I leave for Indy in about 4 days. Can't wait!!! Regards, rick From ladaniels at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 9 21:25:08 2007 From: ladaniels at sbcglobal.net (Larry Daniels) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 22:25:08 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Fun on the road Message-ID: <06e901c7ab0e$f3229450$6401a8c0@Larry> I need to pass on a funny thing that happened today. I was out running errands in my 67 Austin A60 pickup which happens to be RHD. I took my youngest Golden Retriever with me who happens to sit upright in the seat facing forward looking out the windshield just like a human would do. We pulled up to a stop light in the right hand lane and I noticed a car pull up beside us in the left lane. She gave us a cursory glance and then looked away. Almost immediately, she snapped her head back as she must have realized that it appeared as though this dog was driving the truck. I bobbed my head forward and put both hands on top of the steering wheel and started laughing at the look of terror on her face as she must have thought she was sharing the road with a dog driver. She started laughing, too, as she realized what the deal was. It reminded me of last year when Peter C. and I were coming back from the Grattan, MI race where we were supporting Ron Soave. Almost the same thing happened when a couple of girls pulled up on our left and told PPP that they liked his truck. When Peter leaned back and motioned to me on the right side and told them it wasn't his truck and he wasn't driving, they just gasped. Evidently, they had never seen anybody drive on the wrong side... or was it the right side? LAD From mjb at autox.team.net Sat Jun 9 21:33:48 2007 From: mjb at autox.team.net (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 21:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Mgs] Sweet Sixteen Message-ID: <20070610033348.BE291187A67@autox.team.net> Today was the British Field Day, put on by various car clubs here in Salt Lake City, like the British Motor Club, the Healey club, the Land Rover folks as well as some vintage motorcycle groups. A fun time, a pleasant way to spend a few hours. And this year was the 16th annual event, having been started in 1991. And 1991 was the year that the domain Team.Net was first put on the air. Sixteen years ago, when you had to explain to folks that the dot was not silent. Actually the lists, only two back in the beginning, were going strong for a few years before the Team.Net domain went on the air. A lot has happened since then, some changes for the better, some not. But one thing remains, the various mailing lists, web sites, FTP archives, wiki and such are still being run by some old computer guy on piles of creaky hardware in his basement. That guy, of course, is me. There are out of pocket expenses incurred in keeping it all going. Once or twice a year I make a request for donations to help cover the costs of keeping it all going, or maybe a refreshing beverage from an appreciative subscriber. No big sales pitch, this is the only message you'll get from me. If you enjoy the services I put on the net and have a few extra dollars, I'd appreciate a contribution, of whatever dollar amount you feel comfortable with. If you aren't in a position to donate, don't worry about it. If you are one of the folks who has recently sent in something without prompting, go ahead and smile smugly - you are off the hook. Contribution details can be found at http://www.team.net/donate.html Thanks, mjb. From hdr at pobox.com Sat Jun 9 21:50:10 2007 From: hdr at pobox.com (Henry D. Reynolds) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 22:50:10 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <466B74F2.5050106@pobox.com> well having just had a pressure relief valve fail in my daily driven '78 MG has me driving my '82 280SL and if i would sell it in an instant to have my MG on the road again. the Mercedes is a nice ride for some but not for me. I can never get comfortable in the seats. It is accelerates nicely on the highway but is heavy as a tank and no spunk from a stand still. If i could sell if for 4k i'd feel like a thief. Back to my MG. I lost oil pressure gradually as the oil warmed and pulled over as soon as i noticed it was running below 25 PSI at highway speed. I pulled the capnut and the spring was a 1/4" shorter than the 3" that Haynes says it should have been. Having replaced that I feel the engine is a total loss: burning oil streaming from the tail pipe and clattering like a diesel. now i have an engine that came with a parts car I purchased around 12 years ago am prepping for the swap. but it will be end of July before my MG, and i am whole again. -- "Alle Menschen werden Bruder" Henry D. Reynolds - System Administrator mail: hdr at pobox.com - phone: 512.448.3617 - cell: 512.699.8658 From temporarilyoffline at gmail.com Sat Jun 9 22:22:28 2007 From: temporarilyoffline at gmail.com (Steve) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 00:22:28 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: <466B74F2.5050106@pobox.com> References: <466B74F2.5050106@pobox.com> Message-ID: <76664a460706092122n416288erb8bb52d41eeb9b65@mail.gmail.com> What about your Z4? I've got an old BMW that I daily drive... 305k/mi and still ticking... well clattering, its fun and I don't care if anything happens to it. - Steve On 6/9/07, Henry D. Reynolds wrote: > > well having just had a pressure relief valve fail in my daily driven '78 > MG has > me driving my '82 280SL and if i would sell it in an instant to have my MG > on > the road again. > > the Mercedes is a nice ride for some but not for me. I can never get > comfortable > in the seats. It is accelerates nicely on the highway but is heavy as a > tank and > no spunk from a stand still. > > If i could sell if for 4k i'd feel like a thief. > > Back to my MG. I lost oil pressure gradually as the oil warmed and pulled > over > as soon as i noticed it was running below 25 PSI at highway speed. I > pulled the > capnut and the spring was a 1/4" shorter than the 3" that Haynes says it > should > have been. Having replaced that I feel the engine is a total loss: burning > oil > streaming from the tail pipe and clattering like a diesel. > > now i have an engine that came with a parts car I purchased around 12 > years ago > am prepping for the swap. but it will be end of July before my MG, and i > am > whole again. > > -- > "Alle Menschen werden Bruder" > > Henry D. Reynolds - System Administrator > mail: hdr at pobox.com - phone: 512.448.3617 - cell: 512.699.8658 > _______________________________________________ > temporarilyoffline at gmail.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From dwoerpel at wi.net Sat Jun 9 22:47:11 2007 From: dwoerpel at wi.net (David Woerpel) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:47:11 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Formula 1 (No MG content In-Reply-To: <567492.3334.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <567492.3334.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466B824F.2030205@wi.net> Rick, I'll be joining you but on the spectator side of the fence. Haven't missed a year since the Circus came to town. We don't get down 'til late Friday night and are at the track early Saturday for the qual sessions and general meandering around. It should be a great race this year. Thanks for the pics and you and your family have a great job!!! Even with the hearing protection I bet the cars are loud standing that close. They better not move the date next year to following week; we want to go to the Ozarks! Let us know if you hear anything in that regard. Keep up the good work! Dave 59 :{) 59 MGA 1500 05 MCS Burlington WI Rick Lindsay wrote: > Hello Friends, > A few months ago I wrote a little piece about > working a Grand Prix weekend as a pit/grid marshal. I > received a number of very nice replies saying that > they enjoyed learning what the Formula 1 circus looks > like from the inside. > Here is another crack at that same idea but this > time as a random series of pictures from last year. > I'll point out a couple I like then turn you loose to > view them all. From eric at erickson.on.net Sun Jun 10 01:37:43 2007 From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric Erickson) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:07:43 +0930 Subject: [Mgs] Formula 1 (No MG content In-Reply-To: <567492.3334.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <567492.3334.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 10/06/2007, at 11:56 AM, Rick Lindsay wrote: > Here is another crack at that same idea but this > time as a random series of pictures from last year. > I'll point out a couple I like then turn you loose to > view them all. Enjoy! Enjoy! Always a hard but enjoyable few days. At least a MY office earlier this year (Turn 5 - Albert Park) we had a bit of grass to collapse on when required -) http://tinyurl.com/357zop http://tinyurl.com/36q2rz I always kick myself for not taking more photos... then everyone says they will share photos and shared e-mail addresses seem to disappear amongst the after-party drinks :-) Now, Rick, you need to make sure you get yourself a French flaggy like we had (well, she was seconded from the spectator marshall ranks but we made sure we trained her up pretty well :-) http://tinyurl.com/yw3x4k Have fun and report back - oh yeah, and see you at Albert Park next year! Stay SAFE! We hate losing good marshalls! Eric From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Jun 10 03:49:09 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:49:09 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question References: Message-ID: <018001c7ab45$503f7e60$0200a8c0@Three> If neither side works at all not even glowing with the turn signals, but the hazard signals flash all four corners, it is probably the hazard switch, power for the turn signals comes through this when the hazards are off. Can also be broken connections in the green 12v fused ignition supply to the hazard switch, or the green from the hazard switch to the turn flasher unit, or the light-green/brown (colours are for an MGB) from there to the turn switch. Also the turn flasher unit or turn switch themselves. An easy circuit to diagnose, with the ignition on (you might want to disconnect the coil to stop it overheating) track 12v with a test-lamp or meter through the hazard switch and turn flasher unit to the turn switch. On an MGB the washers and turn flashers and other circuits are all on the green circuit so if two fail together that indicates the problem could be from where they join back towards the battery. But it could also mean you have two independent faults! If the both lamps each side glow but don't flash either the turn flasher is faulty or there is insufficient current flowing to trigger the turn flasher. Unless the bad connection is very bad you are unlikely to spot different levels of brightness as only a slight dimming is enough to cause the problem. This is much more difficult to track down as only slightly bad connections can cause it, and you may have several very slightly bad connections in the circuit. If both sides do it it could be in the green and light-green/brown circuits as above, in fact anywhere back through the green, fusebox, white, ignition switch and brown circuits. If one side works OK but the other side just glows it is a bad connection or incorrect or tired bulb that side. Connections can be anywhere from the turn switch, bullet connectors out to the lamp units, bulb to bulb holder, and light unit to body (or wired ground where provided). Of course if one corner doesn't glow at all, that is the designed warning for bulb failure, which can be a broken connection out through that corner. New flasher units can sometimes get non flashers going as they seem to be slightly more sensitive, but as they 'burn in' they will fail also, indicating the problem is elsewhere. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 1:51 AM Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question > Can't seem to get my signals to work. The hazard switch works and all > the > lights blink, but when I try left and right, nothing. I checked every > ground > I can think of and cleaned the connections. I just changed the relay and > it > worked for a short time, but only the right signal. The right would > blink, > but it seemed slow. The left didn't blink at all initially, but the > lights > came on and stayed on. Every so often it would blink, about once every > 10 > seconds or something weird like that. Now neither works. I'm at a loss. > I'm > not sure if its related, but the washer switch isnt working either. The > signal switch is pretty new and all connections look great. I even tried > a > different switch from my parts car. Everything worked except the turn > signals > again. Seems to coincidental. I'm sure its something simple. Any > ideas? > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20070608/04c589cb/attachment.htm > _______________________________________________ > paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From sammler at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 10 09:02:05 2007 From: sammler at bellsouth.net (Pat Harris - "sammler") Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:02:05 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Insurance - "declared value" without usage restrictions In-Reply-To: <646387.60042.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <646387.60042.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466C126D.20004@bellsouth.net> I'm currently insured but it's one of the policies which places quite a few restrictions on the use of the car - something of an "events, meetings, etc." limitation. I'd like to have a "declared value" policy without any restrictions. The company I've used for over 40 years offers only the usual "actual value" type policies and they were unable to tell me what the "actual value" would be - until I had an accident :-( Does anyone have experience with a company which offers this type of "declared value" policy without any usage limitations? Thanks, Pat From bilking at comcast.net Sun Jun 10 09:22:57 2007 From: bilking at comcast.net (bill) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:22:57 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Insurance - "declared value" without usage restrictions In-Reply-To: <466C126D.20004@bellsouth.net> References: <646387.60042.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <466C126D.20004@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <466C1751.9020409@comcast.net> Pat Harris - "sammler" wrote: >I'm currently insured but it's one of the policies which places quite a >few restrictions on the use of the car - something of an "events, >meetings, etc." limitation. > >I'd like to have a "declared value" policy without any restrictions. >The company I've used for over 40 years offers only the usual "actual >value" type policies and they were unable to tell me what the "actual >value" would be - until I had an accident :-( > >Does anyone have experience with a company which offers this type of >"declared value" policy without any usage limitations? > >Thanks, >Pat >_______________________________________________ >bilking at comcast.net > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > > I use Grundy, declared value and unlimited mileage. The only thing I've needed them for is to get my registration so I cannot comment on a claim. From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sun Jun 10 09:57:59 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 08:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Formula 1 (No MG content In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <397983.35271.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey Eric! Thanks for the additional pictures. We had two French marshals in the pits last year - both male. :-( For those who didn't make the connection, Eric is also a Formula 1 marshal working the Australian F1 Grand Prix (and others). He also races an MGB (Please note the MG content!). Eric works communications. I guess this year at Indy, I will get a flavor of his job. Again, thanks for the extra pictures Eric. I'll be back to Melbourne next year! BTW, here are the Turn-5 marshals from last year. I'm the dweeb in the dark green rain slicker: http://www.aubard.us/F1/Turn_5_marshals_2006.jpg ...end of non-LBC content. Rick --- Eric Erickson wrote: > On 10/06/2007, at 11:56 AM, Rick Lindsay wrote: > > Here is another crack at that same idea but > this > > time as a random series of pictures from last > year. > > I'll point out a couple I like then turn you loose > to > > view them all. > > > Enjoy! Enjoy! > > Always a hard but enjoyable few days. At least a MY > office earlier > this year (Turn 5 - Albert Park) we had a bit of > grass to collapse on > when required -) > > http://tinyurl.com/357zop > http://tinyurl.com/36q2rz > > I always kick myself for not taking more photos... > then everyone says > they will share photos and shared e-mail addresses > seem to disappear > amongst the after-party drinks :-) > > Now, Rick, you need to make sure you get yourself a > French flaggy > like we had (well, she was seconded from the > spectator marshall ranks > but we made sure we trained her up pretty well :-) > > http://tinyurl.com/yw3x4k > > Have fun and report back - oh yeah, and see you at > Albert Park next > year! > > Stay SAFE! We hate losing good marshalls! > > > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From qualitas.jack at gmail.com Sun Jun 10 10:23:57 2007 From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:23:57 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Center Cap Dimensions Needed Message-ID: <48720d20706100923o4f3e090bpc3e8650ee66592a6@mail.gmail.com> I have some MGB aluminum wheels that look great. They were used and I had them sand blasted, painted and powder coated. What I forgot was that I need center caps to finish them off. It looks like the V8 center caps in the Victoria British catalog would do fine. (I can't find them in the Moss catalog.) I called VB, and the promised to measure them and get back to me. NO SUCH LUCK. Does anyone have a set they could caliper for me? I assume the height is OK since it is for an MG. However the diameter might be different than my wheels. If anyone has V8 center caps, I would appreciate the outside diameter, and perhaps the inside depth. This is holding up completion of the project. Thanks, Jack From qualitas.jack at gmail.com Sun Jun 10 10:48:32 2007 From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:48:32 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGC Motor Message-ID: <48720d20706100948p4ef9df82rd8999fbf451fbff8@mail.gmail.com> It is a common mistake to say the MG engine is derived from the Healey engine. NOT SO! It was an Australian 6 that was sent out to be reworked and lightened. As usual with the British car industry they screwed up and produced a much heavier engine. I agree that the transmission is the same, but uses a larger case. Manuals are available from the suppliers, and both Moss and VB have some parts for the car. If completely lost try the MGC guru Mark Miller at big6mark at aol.com. He also has a Healey. Jack 1960 Healey 3000 1969 MGC 1972 MGBGT And I love all three! From WSpohn4 at aol.com Sun Jun 10 11:08:38 2007 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:08:38 EDT Subject: [Mgs] MGC Motor Message-ID: In a message dated 10/06/2007 9:48:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, qualitas.jack at gmail.com writes: It is a common mistake to say the MG engine is derived from the Healey engine. NOT SO! It was an Australian 6 that was sent out to be reworked and lightened. As usual with the British car industry they screwed up and produced a much heavier engine. ____________________________________ In fact the MGC engine is lighter, not heavier than the Austin Healey, but it wasn't as light as they had intended. Bill From ptrmgb at gmail.com Sun Jun 10 11:27:27 2007 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:27:27 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Fun on the road In-Reply-To: <06e901c7ab0e$f3229450$6401a8c0@Larry> References: <06e901c7ab0e$f3229450$6401a8c0@Larry> Message-ID: <49D4F7E0-0F1C-4B44-BE66-14123F7950CF@gmail.com> Larry, Are you by chance going to the June Sprints this year? We're planning on going, though my youngest may now have a baseball tournament. Which could work in my favor, my 12 year old and I could take the 'B down then. My brother is racing, I believe, anyway. He hasn't had a good year so far. Too busy at work, and has only raced once. The car broke. If I do drive the 'B. It will definately go to the MG spot. Even though it's multi-colored primer. Paul. On Jun 9, 2007, at 10:25 PM, Larry Daniels wrote: > I need to pass on a funny thing that happened today. > > I was out running errands in my 67 Austin A60 pickup which happens > to be RHD. > I took my youngest Golden Retriever with me who happens to sit > upright in the > seat facing forward looking out the windshield just like a human > would do. > > We pulled up to a stop light in the right hand lane and I noticed a > car pull > up beside us in the left lane. She gave us a cursory glance and > then looked > away. Almost immediately, she snapped her head back as she must > have realized > that it appeared as though this dog was driving the truck. I > bobbed my head > forward and put both hands on top of the steering wheel and started > laughing > at the look of terror on her face as she must have thought she was > sharing the > road with a dog driver. She started laughing, too, as she realized > what the > deal was. > > It reminded me of last year when Peter C. and I were coming back > from the > Grattan, MI race where we were supporting Ron Soave. Almost the > same thing > happened when a couple of girls pulled up on our left and told PPP > that they > liked his truck. When Peter leaned back and motioned to me on the > right side > and told them it wasn't his truck and he wasn't driving, they just > gasped. > Evidently, they had never seen anybody drive on the wrong side... > or was it > the right side? > > > LAD > _______________________________________________ > ptrmgb at gmail.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Paul Root ptrmgb at gmail.com 77 MGB 99 OBS From pryner at verizon.net Sun Jun 10 11:27:36 2007 From: pryner at verizon.net (Peter Ryner) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:27:36 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Insurance - "declared value" without usage restrictions In-Reply-To: <466C1751.9020409@comcast.net> Message-ID: Both Hagerty and Grundy offer those policies. Neither have mileage restrictions and both have agreed value. Neither will let you drive your car back and forth to work. Hagerty requires that you have a car for every driver in the house other than the classic. Not sure about Grundy but they probably have the same restriction. I just received my new bill from Hagerty and the policy went up about 10% this year. Not sure if it is because I live in Florida or if prices have gone up that much. I've heard that both offer great claim service but never had to make a claim so I can't say for sure. You can get a free quote from either on line. NFI Pete -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of bill Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:23 AM To: Pat Harris - "sammler" Cc: MGS Subject: Re: [Mgs] Insurance - "declared value" without usage restrictions Pat Harris - "sammler" wrote: >I'm currently insured but it's one of the policies which places quite a >few restrictions on the use of the car - something of an "events, >meetings, etc." limitation. > >I'd like to have a "declared value" policy without any restrictions. >The company I've used for over 40 years offers only the usual "actual >value" type policies and they were unable to tell me what the "actual >value" would be - until I had an accident :-( > >Does anyone have experience with a company which offers this type of >"declared value" policy without any usage limitations? > >Thanks, >Pat >_______________________________________________ >bilking at comcast.net From mrazor at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 10 12:34:13 2007 From: mrazor at bellsouth.net (Michael Razor) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:34:13 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Insurance - "declared value" without usage restrictions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7ab8d$f1fb5fb0$6900a8c0@dad> I have had Grundy for years and have had one claim and I think they are great. The service on the claim was fast and exceeded my expectations. Michael L. Razor From qualitas.jack at gmail.com Sun Jun 10 14:42:46 2007 From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:42:46 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGC Engine Message-ID: <48720d20706101342j52fc43d1l6c1d857e6ce25434@mail.gmail.com> Rather than go through all my books, I went to the last two I read. Essential MG, by Graham Robson, and MGB Including Mgc and MGB GT V8, by David Knowles. Robson says the engine was the one Austin Healey, shared with the Austin Westminster and Knowles agrees. I don't know which book I have that says it isn't so. That is what happebs when you read more than one book! The Knowles book is fascinating. He looked at the factory records, and tells just who was responsible for designing each part of the car. He also explains why the confusion on where the engine came from. It seems the first six cylinder engines tried in the prototype MGCs did come from Australia. However, it was too costly to import, and Morris wouldn't build them at Longbridge. The redesign was too heavy, and was to be lower in height so it could fit under the B bonnet. It was neither lighter or lower. The height of the engine is the reason they had to create a new bonnet with bulges. Sorry for the confusion, but it is an old one. Jack From arundell at ghs.com.au Sun Jun 10 16:49:07 2007 From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:49:07 +1000 Subject: [Mgs] MGC Engine In-Reply-To: <48720d20706101342j52fc43d1l6c1d857e6ce25434@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000f01c7abb1$9b0781b0$c380820a@ghs.local> >The Knowles book is fascinating. He looked at the factory records, and >tells just who was responsible for designing each part of the car. He also >explains why the confusion on where the engine came from. As an ex long suffering Healey owner, can we have their names and addresses!! Murray Arundell From grunt333 at verizon.net Sun Jun 10 18:01:21 2007 From: grunt333 at verizon.net (CARL ELLIOT) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Show in Lacey New Jersey Message-ID: <856042.23698.qm@web84305.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Next Sat the 16th at the Lacey Elks good day for all. Everyone welcome lots of trophies.Food vendors on the water, See you there . Will be first time out for my wife with her MGB Automatic, Candy apple orange with tan interior. CarlE. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 10 18:43:30 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:43:30 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: <212588.4627.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wait 'til next year and trade for a 1-year-old Pontiac, straight across. That would be my advice. Otherwise you're giving up a ton of value. Of course, if you really want a Solstice, and money is no object, go ahead... -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/9/07 9:53 AM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay at yahoo.com wrote: > Hello Gang, > I have been considering selling/trading in my > 10-year-old M-B SL500 daily driver in for an '08 > Solstice GXP. You guys have any experience with this > car? My Mercedes is fantastic and it is in great > shape, but it is 10 years old. It would take perhaps > $12k + my car to work the deal. Then again, the > Pontiac is dropping about $10k per year and the M-B, > about $4k per year. The SL will floor-out at about > $12k and stay there, if the older SLs are any guide. > The GXP will eventually floor out in a junkyard. > Your thoughts (because I respect your opinions)? > > Regards, > > rick From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 10 19:23:38 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:23:38 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: <002f01c7aaba$478ed350$8115a8c0@Garage.local> Message-ID: My theory: Only own enjoyable cars. Don't drive sedans, ever. Don't drive a car you can't fix on the road. Don't commute, period (take the train if you must). I've had my MGB since 1988, and my 67 Plymouth Barracuda since 1982 -- no other cars. They take turns as "daily driver". The MGB has never seen the business end of a tow truck (it was rope-towed by a friend's PU once when the original engine ate a bearing, but I had bought it cheap because it had rod knock, and was just driving it into the ground). The Barracuda was flat towed to my new house because it was out of registration at the time. That's it. I wonder how many Acura/Lexus/Toyota/Honda, etc. drivers can say the same over a similar period of time? Of course, half of the marques mentioned haven't even been around that long. -- ==================== Max 1967 Fastback Johnny Lightning Muscle Cars USA #14 273 Commando Factory disc brakes Mountain View, CA on 6/9/07 10:19 AM, oliver at sumton at sbcglobal.net wrote: > my theory of life: > > buy a used honda accord (i paid 9k for a 5 year old 5 speed fully loaded > accord with 80k miles 3 three years ago). they are fun to drive and > reliable to the nth degree. buy tires, gas, and oil. if you must there is a > world of aftermarket parts. > > then - buy an mg, a mb, a bmw, an alfa, a triumph, and/or a whatever, and > drive it on weekends, nice evenings, etc. > > you'll get to work every day, in comfort, and your depreciation loss is very > small at that point. you'll have a fun car to drive when your not in > traffic, trying to get to work, etc. > > don't ever buy a new car unless you can spend an entire day bargaining away > the rediculous profit they make on you!!!! > > my 2c > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Lindsay" > To: "MGS" > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 11:53 AM > Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for > opinions) > > >> Hello Gang, >> I have been considering selling/trading in my >> 10-year-old M-B SL500 daily driver in for an '08 >> Solstice GXP. You guys have any experience with this >> car? My Mercedes is fantastic and it is in great >> shape, but it is 10 years old. It would take perhaps >> $12k + my car to work the deal. Then again, the >> Pontiac is dropping about $10k per year and the M-B, >> about $4k per year. The SL will floor-out at about >> $12k and stay there, if the older SLs are any guide. >> The GXP will eventually floor out in a junkyard. >> Your thoughts (because I respect your opinions)? From mtyler at hctc.net Sun Jun 10 19:54:20 2007 From: mtyler at hctc.net (Marc&Heidi) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:54:20 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22D42FFD-6191-4B1B-9B4D-DFEFD15B273C@hctc.net> On Jun 10, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Max Heim wrote: > Don't drive sedans, ever. No BMW 2002s? no Datsun 510s? No Alfa Giulias? How terribly sad :^( -Marc From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com Sun Jun 10 21:33:45 2007 From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:33:45 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: <22D42FFD-6191-4B1B-9B4D-DFEFD15B273C@hctc.net> References: <22D42FFD-6191-4B1B-9B4D-DFEFD15B273C@hctc.net> Message-ID: Those are coupes, not sedans. And the 2002 and Giulia were made as some gorgeous convertibles, too -- look at these: http://www.oldtimergala.de/content/produktfotos/1153501595AlfaGTCkl.jpg http://www.cabrionews.de/katalog/bmw/02_cabrio.jpg Those look like fun... Matt On Jun 10, 2007, at 9:54 PM, Marc&Heidi wrote: > On Jun 10, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Max Heim wrote: > >> Don't drive sedans, ever. > > No BMW 2002s? no Datsun 510s? No Alfa Giulias? How terribly sad :^( > -Marc > _______________________________________________ > matt.lists at trebelhorn.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Sun Jun 10 18:29:47 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Insurance - "declared value" without usage restrictions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <668940.94329.qm@web50911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Peter Ryner wrote: Both Hagerty and Grundy offer those policies. Neither have mileage restrictions and both have agreed value. Neither will let you drive your car back and forth to work. Hagerty requires that you have a car for every driver in the house other than the classic. ----------------- Peter, I don't recall seeing in my Hagerty policy a prohibition from driving it daily. Yes, they do require that you do have another car but I have never seen anything specifically forbidding you from driving it every day, should you want to. Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From bispmotala at hotmail.com Sun Jun 10 22:10:12 2007 From: bispmotala at hotmail.com (bispmotala) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 06:10:12 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] [MGS] MGC Info? In-Reply-To: <4664A7F3.9090309@autox.team.net> Message-ID: Hi Mark The MGC transmission is nearly the same as the MGB, they are interchangeable for the same years, the ratios were originally different but who knows what might have been done to things during the years. The Austin Healy 3000 is indeed different. I compared parts lists a while ago and nothing were the same. I seem to remember that the tappet covers were identical. So there might be some parts but nothing to count on. Someone else may know better. Sven MGC GT and Mk3 Austin Healey -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-mgs at Autox.Team.Net [mailto:owner-mgs at Autox.Team.Net] Fvr Mark J. Bradakis Skickat: den 5 juni 2007 02:02 Till: mgs at autox.team.net Dmne: [MGS] MGC Info? We've got an MGC down at the shop that is going to get the engine rebuilt and the gearbox, with overdrive, gone through. Are the MGC transmissions the same as MGB, completely different or have only some parts in common? The claim is that the engine is based on the Healey straight 6, same bore and stroke, but is totally different. Wonder if any of the internal bits are the same as Healeys? Hey, I'm a Triumph guy, what do I know? mjb. ps: I'll probably be switching this list from majordomo to mailman later this week, so don't be alarmed if some odd things happen. From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Sun Jun 10 18:24:37 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Insurance - "declared value" without usage restrictions In-Reply-To: <466C126D.20004@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <957131.28757.qm@web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> "Pat Harris - \"sammler\"" wrote: I'm currently insured but it's one of the policies which places quite a few restrictions on the use of the car - something of an "events, meetings, etc." limitation. I'd like to have a "declared value" policy without any restrictions. The company I've used for over 40 years offers only the usual "actual value" type policies and they were unable to tell me what the "actual value" would be - until I had an accident :-( Does anyone have experience with a company which offers this type of "declared value" policy without any usage limitations? --------------- Hagerty. Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com Sun Jun 10 23:08:35 2007 From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 01:08:35 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: References: <22D42FFD-6191-4B1B-9B4D-DFEFD15B273C@hctc.net> Message-ID: <189686C5-2E43-47D6-83D2-67356F8665E0@trebelhorn.com> The alfa was manufactured as a convertible -- it's called a GTC. It was not chopped; it was manufactured as a convertible prior to the introduction of the duetto. The 2002 cabriolet was semi-factory; produced by Baur. The usage of "sedan" for a 2-door is new to me; but I'll yield. It just seems wrong, but if the term's used that way... And yes, I'm aware of the 4-door sedan (that feels redundant) Gulias and 510s. Not interested in them, mind; but aware. Matt On Jun 10, 2007, at 11:53 PM, Marc&Heidi wrote: > On Jun 10, 2007, at 10:33 PM, Matt Trebelhorn wrote: > >> Those are coupes, not sedans > > Um, Are you sure about that? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datsun_510 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_New_Class > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Giulia > > The Alfa pictured in your link was a coupe before it was chopped, > but many giulias were sedans. > All 2002s were sedans > 510s were sedans (2 or 4 door) or wagons (estates) > > Minis were (are) made as saloons/sedans as well. What could be > more fun than one of those? :^) > > -Marc From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 10 23:36:54 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:36:54 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: <22D42FFD-6191-4B1B-9B4D-DFEFD15B273C@hctc.net> Message-ID: Yeah, I'm prejudiced. Why would I want a 510 rather than a 240Z, for instance? Sure, there are good sedans, but they are compromises... In all cases, the coupe, GT or roadster version is even more fun. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/10/07 6:54 PM, Marc&Heidi at mtyler at hctc.net wrote: > > On Jun 10, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Max Heim wrote: > >> Don't drive sedans, ever. > > No BMW 2002s? no Datsun 510s? No Alfa Giulias? How terribly sad :^( > -Marc From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Sun Jun 10 19:51:44 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Show in Lacey New Jersey In-Reply-To: <856042.23698.qm@web84305.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <888897.28518.qm@web50907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> CARL ELLIOT wrote: Next Sat the 16th at the Lacey Elks good day for all. Everyone welcome lots of trophies.Food vendors on the water, See you there . Will be first time out for my wife with her MGB Automatic, Candy apple orange with tan interior. CarlE. -------------- Dang, gonna be at my daughter's dance recital all afternoon on Saturday.... I would like to have seen the auto MG. Did you convert it yourself, Carl? Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 11 02:35:30 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:35:30 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Center Cap Dimensions Needed References: <48720d20706100923o4f3e090bpc3e8650ee66592a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <009801c7ac05$0b2ed120$0200a8c0@Three> My factory V8 centre caps are 2.68" from the top of the rim to the back of the flange, and about 2.745" diameter. I say 'about' as it seems to vary from just over 2.74" to just under 2.75" around the circumference. They are only 'tin' and so will distort slightly according to how the hole in the wheel has been machined. I couldn't get an accurate figure on the hole as the back end of the caliper fouled the rim. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Does anyone have a set they could caliper for me? From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 11 03:16:20 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:16:20 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch Bleeding Message-ID: <00a801c7ac09$33bff610$0200a8c0@Three> After having read so often how difficult bleeding the clutch can be when I had replaced the master, slave and flex hose some years ago I didn't even bother, but instead reverse filled the system by connecting a Gunsons EeziBleed on very low pressure to the *slave* nipple, which needed no bleeding at all. Since then I'd heard about clamping the slave piston into the bottom of the cylinder, and even connecting the right-hand caliper to the clutch slave and using the *brake* pedal to bleed or fill the system (which I first came across via Dave Dubois from a posting to an MGA bulletin board by Ian Pearl), but until this week hadn't had an opportunity to try either. An acquaintance has just bought a 1978 GT as a non-runner for 620 quid which has stood for 4 years, with a silent fuel pump and a clutch pedal that went to the floor with no resistance. The clutch master was full, with pretty murky fluid so I don't think the PO had simply topped up a leaking system. Opening the slave nipple and pumping got no fluid through, just lots of gurgling. I pressed the slave piston right back into the cylinder as per tip 1 but that made no difference. I hadn't got my Gunsons with me but I wanted to try tip 2 as well, so I then siphoned all the fluid out of the clutch master, connected the right-hand caliper to the clutch, and got the owner to pump the brake pedal gently. Within a few pumps fluid rose up the clutch master whilst barely reducing the brake master level (the large transparent reservoir) hardly at all. The result was full clutch piston travel and the correct biting point with no further ado. It was also easier than using a Gunsons, which needs a bit of fiddling about to connect to the slave nipple as well as a source of air pressure at just a few psi. The two nipples are the same size so a length of plastic tubing fits both, even the spanner size is the same. Time will tell whether there is a leak or some other problem in the hydraulics yet to be discovered, but I would definitely use this method again to either fill or bleed the clutch over the Gunsons reverse fill/bleed method and certainly the normal fill and bleed process. FWIW the fuel pump was easy enough to get going by tickling the points, but was only pumping drops. I parted the solenoid and pump body to check the one-way valves and filter but they were fine, also removed the points to reface them. Along the way I found the air chamber cover bolt was barely finger-tight. Reassembled, reset the throw of the points, refitted, and bingo - plenty of flow and no leaks. The column switches were flopping all over the place - they had slid up the column and off the locating notch so that was easy enough to fix. The hazard wasn't flashing one side, so opened it up and cleaned the contact surfaces, but I could never get a reliable contact to the one terminal so one side kept going off and on as I wiggled the moving part of the switch about, so we cut our losses and bought a new switch. So the next step is to put it in for an MOT (annual test) and see what else fails. PaulH. From r.gosling at penspen.com Mon Jun 11 03:30:08 2007 From: r.gosling at penspen.com (Gosling, Richard) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:30:08 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch Bleeding Message-ID: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF600@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> Good tip, Paul, thanks! Good to hear that another barn-resting GT is on it's way back to the road!!! Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) ________________________________________________________________________ This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. 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The following UK companies within the Penspen Group and any electronic communication sent on behalf of any of them, are subject to the provisions of the UK Companies Act 1985; PENSPEN HOLDINGS LIMITED (Company Number : 980600) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) PENSPEN LIMITED (Company Number: 584446) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) (Unipen, Penspen Integrity and Andrew Palmer & Associates are operating divisions of Penspen Limited and Spencer & Partners and Pencol are trade names of Penspen Limited) LIBRA TECHNICAL SERVICES LIMITED (Company Number: 1874430) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) MANCHESTER JETLINE LIMITED (Company Number: 2392093) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 537 8635 08) From efrenken at lctax.de Mon Jun 11 07:19:05 2007 From: efrenken at lctax.de (Frenken, Eric) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:19:05 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] V8 tach Message-ID: <8F0D0744B564D511B0820002A551BB1A6FBDFD@lc-d-3.lctax.ads> Hi all, I've been searching for a MGB V8 tachometer to no avail. I wonder if one of you guys have one that you probably don't need and that you would be willing to sell. Any condition is fine. Please reply off list. Thanks for taking your time. Eric [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/x-pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s] From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Mon Jun 11 06:57:02 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 05:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <948274.26538.qm@web50911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Max Heim wrote: My theory: Only own enjoyable cars. Don't drive sedans, ever. Don't drive a car you can't fix on the road. ---------------- I dunno, Max, my Audi sedan is pretty enjoyable. Granted, I can't fix it on the road if it breaks - but it's been pretty reliable for the first 45k of it's like. Some people say that we're in a golden age for automobiles right now. Across the board, we've never had so many cars with the levels of safety, economy, performance, technology and quality. Certainly simplicity has suffered, and you typically need a laptop to fix a modern car versus a wrench, so shadetree fixes are hard to do. OTOH, there are plenty of cars that kids are hot rodding (and I'm not referring to neon lights and fart cans). So perhaps not everything is bad about the current crop. Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From lrc at red4est.com Mon Jun 11 10:04:12 2007 From: lrc at red4est.com (Larry Colen) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:04:12 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070611160412.GE25006@red4est.com> If I recall correctly, you can run up to 195-60-14 on an MGB before things start getting tricky. You may need to roll the fenderlips to keep them from rubbing in the back. -- All your apex are belong to us. Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com http://www.red4est.com/lrc From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 11 10:00:54 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:00:54 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: <948274.26538.qm@web50911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: OK, I was overstating the case for hyperbolic effect. My point was why waste driving time on an "appliance" car (Honda, Toyota, etc.) -- if you have a fun car you should drive it all the time, not save it for the occasional sunny weekend. It's more fun for you, and it's better for the car -- IME, regular driving and moderate maintenance result in a more reliable vehicle than occasional driving and fanatical maintenance. Even very moderate maintenance, as I am guilty of, since my MGB is essentially worthless (monetarily). -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/11/07 5:57 AM, Dan DiBiase at d_dibiase at yahoo.com wrote: > Max Heim wrote: My theory: > > Only own enjoyable cars. Don't drive sedans, ever. Don't drive a car you can't > fix on the road. ---------------- > I dunno, Max, my Audi sedan is pretty enjoyable. Granted, I can't fix it on > the road if it breaks - but it's been pretty reliable for the first 45k of > it's like. > > Some people say that we're in a golden age for automobiles right now. Across > the board, we've never had so many cars with the levels of safety, economy, > performance, technology and quality. Certainly simplicity has suffered, and > you typically need a laptop to fix a modern car versus a wrench, so shadetree > fixes are hard to do. OTOH, there are plenty of cars that kids are hot rodding > (and I'm not referring to neon lights and fart cans). So perhaps not > everything is bad about the current crop. > > > > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? > '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... > '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! > NAMGBR #5-2328 > http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From barrie at look.ca Sun Jun 10 13:03:52 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:03:52 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: <466ADE79.5030607@comcast.net> References: <212588.4627.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <466ADE79.5030607@comcast.net> Message-ID: .........you want to buy a Solstice and junk a 10 year old M-B ? Despite the fact that M-Bs have rapidly moved from the well built prestige car to the one that dozens in the street own, I cannot for the life of me how a Solstice could replace one. Unless of course one wants the "looks" after being wooed by advertising. At 01:08 PM 6/9/2007, bill wrote: >Rick Lindsay wrote: > > > > > Your thoughts (because I respect your opinions)? > > > > > > >Knowing the Solstice is made down the street at the Wilmington DE >assembly plant and knowing the plants proximity to Steve's Centerville >Inn and also knowing how Steve sets up the bar with assigned seating and >drinks lined up at lunchtime I'd think twice before buying a Solstice. >But I'm sure it's the same at all the assembly plants. > >Besides, how memorable are really nice vintage SL's when you see them on >the road, they catch your eye. Not as sweet as an old Type 1 Vdub but >pretty nice for German iron. > >Just my opinion. > >59 MGA >69 Penton 125 ISDT >79 Yamaha XS650F >_______________________________________________ >barrie at look.ca > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From lrc at red4est.com Mon Jun 11 10:18:35 2007 From: lrc at red4est.com (Larry Colen) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:18:35 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Sorting parts in the Santa Cruz Mountains Message-ID: <20070611161814.GF25006@red4est.com> About a year and a half ago, a local teenager did something stupid and ended up parked ass over teakettle on my carport. This was particularly exciting as I was in the shed under the carport at the time: http://red4est.com/shedcrash Many trials and tribulations later, after having to move many years worth of collecting car parts, electronics and other toys out, the six thousand dollar shed has been rebuilt. I've got the shelves up, and am ready to start putting all the tubs of parts back in. As you might understand, I'd much rather sort stuff out before putting it away, a process that would be easier with help, especially if the help can tell a carburettor from a camshaft, and especially if the help can tell a Miata part from an MGB part. What's in it for you? 1) An excuse to drive Santa Cruz mountain roads. 2) The fun of rummaging through someone elses collection of parts. 3) I've got a lot of spares, and would be willing to sell quite a few of them. When it comes to bargaining, I'll be particularly kindly disposed towards people who help. 4) Pizza, soda, beer... If you might be interested in helping out, let me know, and I'll update you with the planned schedule. -- All your apex are belong to us. Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com http://www.red4est.com/lrc From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Mon Jun 11 10:35:44 2007 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:35:44 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? In-Reply-To: <20070611160412.GE25006@red4est.com> References: <20070611160412.GE25006@red4est.com> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025FC128C1@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> I have been out of town the past week so I am a little late with my response. I am currently running fairly new 175/65-14 tyres on my 67BGT. My 72B on the other hand is running 175/75R-14 tires. The 65 aspect ratio shows as the tires definitely look a bit smaller than normal but otherwise they handle well for me. Because they are not as tall, the clearance of the car has been lowered a very small amount so it is a bit more likely to ground out on speed bumps or other higher clearance objects although I haven't really seen that problem. An on-line tire calculator does indicate that the tires have introduced a small (<5%) speedometer error, assuming the Smiths gauge is accurate to begin with. I went to the 175/65s to replace the no longer available 165R-14 tires that were on the car. I believe the closest size, in terms of speedometer accuracy, would have been the 175/70s if they are/were available although I haven't seen them in Montana. Personally, I would opt for the 175/75s rather than the 175/65s just for the larger look and the slight increase in clearance. I have tried to stay with the thinner tires although I have heard the 185s should work without rubbing. There are some schools of thought concerning advantages/disadvantages of width (175 vs 185 or 195) so the optimal tire may depend on driving conditions. My car sees a fair bit of snow and the thinner tires are supposed to give better traction under those conditions or so I have heard. I mentioned I was out of town. I took a 400 mile trip (one way) to the western part of the state, Montana, northern USA. I actually did see a RBB MGB, parked off the road about 2 miles south of Victor. It is for sale, appears to be owned or maybe being sold at a store called Country Treasures (as it sat in front of the store). I didn't see a price and the car was in a field that was a bit muddy so I didn't get too close. It had a fairly good condition tan top, no obvious rust, but the gas cap was missing so the filler hole was taped over with a clear tape (I suppose duct tape would have looked better). MGs are quite obscure around here in Montana so there is a chance the car could go fairly cheap to anyone interested in or planning to vacation in the area. The only other LBC I saw was a TR6 heading west of Missoula in a rain storm (I was in the wife's Volvo). David Councill 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Larry Colen Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 10:04 AM To: FlynShoot at aol.com Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? If I recall correctly, you can run up to 195-60-14 on an MGB before things start getting tricky. You may need to roll the fenderlips to keep them from rubbing in the back. -- All your apex are belong to us. Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com http://www.red4est.com/lrc _______________________________________________ From mlambdin at towson.edu Mon Jun 11 11:29:15 2007 From: mlambdin at towson.edu (Lambdin, Mike) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:29:15 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've got to agree with you Barrie. The Solstice, to me, is just a trendy car that will soon loose its' appeal. Just couple weeks back I was driving about in my '52 Jag XK120 and pulled into a 7-11 when right behind me came a Solstice. Despite being an impressive looking car with a marvelous interior it was my Jag that got most the looks/comments. (Despite the fact that it needs a paint job and interior.) Point being, Rick, you've got yourself a classy automobile...keep it. -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Barrie Robinson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 3:04 PM To: bill; Rick Lindsay Cc: MGS Subject: Re: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) .........you want to buy a Solstice and junk a 10 year old M-B ? Despite the fact that M-Bs have rapidly moved from the well built prestige car to the one that dozens in the street own, I cannot for the life of me how a Solstice could replace one. Unless of course one wants the "looks" after being wooed by advertising. From rolindsay at yahoo.com Mon Jun 11 12:34:46 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <464558.22630.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Final words, I hope: + Sorry I started this off-topic thread. + I'm keeping the SL500 for my daily driver. rick too-many-cars lindsay --- Max Heim wrote: > OK, I was overstating the case for hyperbolic > effect. My point was why waste > driving time on an "appliance" car (Honda, Toyota, > etc.) -- if you have a > fun car you should drive it all the time, not save > it for the occasional > sunny weekend. It's more fun for you, and it's > better for the car -- IME, > regular driving and moderate maintenance result in a > more reliable vehicle > than occasional driving and fanatical maintenance. > Even very moderate > maintenance, as I am guilty of, since my MGB is > essentially worthless > (monetarily). > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > on 6/11/07 5:57 AM, Dan DiBiase at > d_dibiase at yahoo.com wrote: > > > Max Heim wrote: My > theory: > > > > Only own enjoyable cars. Don't drive sedans, ever. > Don't drive a car you can't > > fix on the road. ---------------- > > I dunno, Max, my Audi sedan is pretty enjoyable. > Granted, I can't fix it on > > the road if it breaks - but it's been pretty > reliable for the first 45k of > > it's like. > > > > Some people say that we're in a golden age for > automobiles right now. Across > > the board, we've never had so many cars with the > levels of safety, economy, > > performance, technology and quality. Certainly > simplicity has suffered, and > > you typically need a laptop to fix a modern car > versus a wrench, so shadetree > > fixes are hard to do. OTOH, there are plenty of > cars that kids are hot rodding > > (and I'm not referring to neon lights and fart > cans). So perhaps not > > everything is bad about the current crop. > > > > > > > > > > Dan D > > Central NJ USA > > '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's > that smoke? > > '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... > > '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! > > NAMGBR #5-2328 > > http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From mtyler at hctc.net Mon Jun 11 12:43:37 2007 From: mtyler at hctc.net (Marc&Heidi) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:43:37 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinions) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I always thought coupes were the compromise: Fake sports cars with fake back seats. :^D On Jun 11, 2007, at 12:36 AM, Max Heim wrote: > Yeah, I'm prejudiced. > > Why would I want a 510 rather than a 240Z, for instance? Sure, > there are > good sedans, but they are compromises... In all cases, the coupe, > GT or > roadster version is even more fun. From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Mon Jun 11 11:15:32 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] In the 'Rick Lindsay' Tradition..... ;-) Message-ID: <448474.26577.qm@web50902.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From WSpohn4 at aol.com Mon Jun 11 14:37:53 2007 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:37:53 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinio... Message-ID: In a message dated 11/06/2007 11:44:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mtyler at hctc.net writes: I always thought coupes were the compromise: Fake sports cars with fake back seats. :^D ____________________________________ The term 'coupe' include true 2 seaters as well as 2+2's Bill From james.nazarian at gmail.com Mon Jun 11 20:10:24 2007 From: james.nazarian at gmail.com (James Nazarian) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:10:24 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? In-Reply-To: <20070611160412.GE25006@red4est.com> Message-ID: <006501c7ac96$d72f1f50$6400a8c0@theendindeed> I run 205x50R15s on my V8. Both the race and street tires fit with only having to roll the rear fender lips. I use polyurethane bushings in the whole suspension and have never seen any signs of tires rubbing anywhere. OTOH I have 185x70R14s on the roadster with stock rubber bushings (and wheels) and they rub the insides of the rear wheel wells. They only rub enough to buff the dirt off and only when autocrossing. FWIW, James ?-----Original Message----- ?From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net ?[mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Larry Colen ?Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:04 PM ?To: FlynShoot at aol.com ?Cc: mgs at autox.team.net ?Subject: Re: [Mgs] 175/65/14 Tires for MGB??? ? ?If I recall correctly, you can run up to 195-60-14 on an MGB ?before things start getting tricky. You may need to roll the ?fenderlips to keep them from rubbing in the back. ? ?-- ? All your apex are belong to us. ?Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com ?http://www.red4est.com/lrc From mlambdin at towson.edu Tue Jun 12 05:56:46 2007 From: mlambdin at towson.edu (Lambdin, Mike) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:56:46 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinio... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The term 'coupe' include true 2 seaters as well as 2+2's >Bill Right you are, Bill. For example: my '59 MGA and '52 Jaguar XK120, both 2 seater fixed head coupes. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From rolindsay at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 06:40:47 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 05:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinio... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <389382.43045.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Exactly. And if either those vehicles was a rag top, it would be called properly, a Drop Head Coupe'. My '63 E-type was called a OTS for Open Two Seater - and it was a drop head coupe'. rick --- "Lambdin, Mike" wrote: > >The term 'coupe' include true 2 seaters as well as > 2+2's > > >Bill > > Right you are, Bill. For example: my '59 MGA and '52 > Jaguar XK120, both 2 > seater fixed head coupes. > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From mlambdin at towson.edu Tue Jun 12 07:21:12 2007 From: mlambdin at towson.edu (Lambdin, Mike) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:21:12 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinio... In-Reply-To: <389382.43045.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Learn something new everyday. I always thought that the Open Two Seater didn't have a top, at all...where as the ragtop/drop head coupe did. Thanks, Rick, for the education. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Lindsay [mailto:rolindsay at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:41 AM To: Lambdin, Mike; WSpohn4 at aol.com; mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opinio... Exactly. And if either those vehicles was a rag top, it would be called properly, a Drop Head Coupe'. My '63 E-type was called a OTS for Open Two Seater - and it was a drop head coupe'. rick --- "Lambdin, Mike" wrote: > >The term 'coupe' include true 2 seaters as well as > 2+2's > > >Bill > > Right you are, Bill. For example: my '59 MGA and '52 Jaguar XK120, > both 2 seater fixed head coupes. > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From WSpohn4 at aol.com Tue Jun 12 08:00:31 2007 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:00:31 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Solstice, absolutely NO MGB content (personal quest for opin... Message-ID: In a message dated 12/06/2007 5:40:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rolindsay at yahoo.com writes: Exactly. And if either those vehicles was a rag top, it would be called properly, a Drop Head Coupe'. My '63 E-type was called a OTS for Open Two Seater - and it was a drop head coupe'. rick --- "Lambdin, Mike" wrote: > >The term 'coupe' include true 2 seaters as well as > 2+2's > > >Bill > > Right you are, Bill. For example: my '59 MGA and '52 > Jaguar XK120, both 2 > seater fixed head coupes. ____________________________________ Actually (to be pedantic) there was never a drop-head coupe MGA as that entails roll-up windows. The only convertible MGA was a roadster, not a DHC. The Jag XK 120 came both ways as I recall - OTS and DHC, the latter with more elaborate lined soft top. Bill From rowdon at sonoma-county.org Tue Jun 12 09:06:59 2007 From: rowdon at sonoma-county.org (DON SCOTT) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:06:59 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] eBay scam Message-ID: In my quest for an early B roadster, I placed a low bid on a car located back in Connecticut. My bid was less than the reserve price, so I knew that it was very unlikely that I would be buying the car. Photos looked nice, but buying a car without inspection would be very risky business (I live in California). When the auction ended and the car was not sold, I received a notification from eBay, or what seemed like eBay, that I had a second chance offering whereby I could buy the car for $6,000. The email notice looked very legitimate. Here's the email I got from the "seller" who apparently was a scam artist and not the owner or the car at all: ----- Forwarded message from Steven Sorci ----- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:23:27 +0000 From: Steven Sorci Reply-To: Steven Sorci Subject: RE: MGB I'm not good at explanations but I will try to explain you how the ebay process will work:1) You will send me your name and shipping address and eBay user ID.2) I will contact eBay to open a case and they will send you theinvoice.3) You will make the payment like is stated in the invoice.4) You will send the payment details at eBay.5) They will contact me to confirm the payment.6) I will send the item to your address and send you the trackingnumber. The shipping will take 3-4 days and you will receive it atyour door.7) After you will receive it and only if it is like I described ityou will contact eBay to release the payment to me.8) I will get the money and you will get the product Let me know if you understand how it works or if you have any otherquestions.> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:28:55 -0700> From ptrmgb at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 09:12:43 2007 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:12:43 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] eBay scam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5b0769cb0706120812m6775e400if8a74b48e0e30779@mail.gmail.com> This might not be a scam. There is "Second Chance" sales. If reserve is not met, the seller can offer it to the top bidder at his/her price. Also, if the winner backs out or otherwise fails to pay, the seller can offer that price to the next bidder. On 6/12/07, DON SCOTT wrote: > > In my quest for an early B roadster, I placed a low bid on a car located > back in Connecticut. My bid was less than the reserve price, so I knew > that it was very unlikely that I would be buying the car. Photos looked > nice, but buying a car without inspection would be very risky business > (I live in California). When the auction ended and the car was not > sold, I received a notification from eBay, or what seemed like eBay, > that I had a second chance offering whereby I could buy the car for > $6,000. The email notice looked very legitimate. Here's the email I > got from the "seller" who apparently was a scam artist and not the owner > or the car at all: > > ----- Forwarded message from Steven Sorci ----- > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:23:27 +0000 > From: Steven Sorci > Reply-To: Steven Sorci > Subject: RE: MGB > > > I'm not good at explanations but I will try to explain you how the ebay > process > will work:1) You will send me your name and shipping address and eBay > user > ID.2) I will contact eBay to open a case and they will send you > theinvoice.3) > You will make the payment like is stated in the invoice.4) You will > send the > payment details at eBay.5) They will contact me to confirm the > payment.6) I > will send the item to your address and send you the trackingnumber. > The > shipping will take 3-4 days and you will receive it atyour door.7) > After you > will receive it and only if it is like I described ityou will contact > eBay to > release the payment to me.8) I will get the money and you will get the > product > Let me know if you understand how it works or if you have any > otherquestions.> > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:28:55 -0700> > _______________________________________________ > ptrmgb at gmail.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From rowdon at sonoma-county.org Tue Jun 12 09:20:20 2007 From: rowdon at sonoma-county.org (DON SCOTT) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:20:20 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] eBay scam Message-ID: The real seller contacted me and told me it was a scam! The way in which shipping is addressed (or not addressed) in the email makes it sound pretty strange! Also, the English is a bit awkward; most noticeable to me was the use of the word "case" as the term for the transaction. >>> "Paul Root" 6/12/2007 8:12:43 AM >>> This might not be a scam. There is "Second Chance" sales. If reserve is not met, the seller can offer it to the top bidder at his/her price. Also, if the winner backs out or otherwise fails to pay, the seller can offer that price to the next bidder. On 6/12/07, DON SCOTT wrote: > > In my quest for an early B roadster, I placed a low bid on a car located > back in Connecticut. My bid was less than the reserve price, so I knew > that it was very unlikely that I would be buying the car. Photos looked > nice, but buying a car without inspection would be very risky business > (I live in California). When the auction ended and the car was not > sold, I received a notification from eBay, or what seemed like eBay, > that I had a second chance offering whereby I could buy the car for > $6,000. The email notice looked very legitimate. Here's the email I > got from the "seller" who apparently was a scam artist and not the owner > or the car at all: > > ----- Forwarded message from Steven Sorci ----- > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:23:27 +0000 > From: Steven Sorci > Reply-To: Steven Sorci > Subject: RE: MGB > > > I'm not good at explanations but I will try to explain you how the ebay > process > will work:1) You will send me your name and shipping address and eBay > user > ID.2) I will contact eBay to open a case and they will send you > theinvoice.3) > You will make the payment like is stated in the invoice.4) You will > send the > payment details at eBay.5) They will contact me to confirm the > payment.6) I > will send the item to your address and send you the trackingnumber. > The > shipping will take 3-4 days and you will receive it atyour door.7) > After you > will receive it and only if it is like I described ityou will contact > eBay to > release the payment to me.8) I will get the money and you will get the > product > Let me know if you understand how it works or if you have any > otherquestions.> > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:28:55 -0700> > _______________________________________________ > ptrmgb at gmail.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From rowdon at sonoma-county.org Tue Jun 12 09:21:31 2007 From: rowdon at sonoma-county.org (DON SCOTT) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:21:31 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] eBay scam Message-ID: The real seller contacted me and told me it was a scam! The way in which shipping is addressed (or not addressed) in the email makes it sound pretty strange! Also, the English is a bit awkward; most noticeable to me was the use of the word "case" as the term for the transaction. >>> "Paul Root" 6/12/2007 8:12:43 AM >>> This might not be a scam. There is "Second Chance" sales. If reserve is not met, the seller can offer it to the top bidder at his/her price. Also, if the winner backs out or otherwise fails to pay, the seller can offer that price to the next bidder. On 6/12/07, DON SCOTT wrote: > > In my quest for an early B roadster, I placed a low bid on a car located > back in Connecticut. My bid was less than the reserve price, so I knew > that it was very unlikely that I would be buying the car. Photos looked > nice, but buying a car without inspection would be very risky business > (I live in California). When the auction ended and the car was not > sold, I received a notification from eBay, or what seemed like eBay, > that I had a second chance offering whereby I could buy the car for > $6,000. The email notice looked very legitimate. Here's the email I > got from the "seller" who apparently was a scam artist and not the owner > or the car at all: > > ----- Forwarded message from Steven Sorci ----- > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:23:27 +0000 > From: Steven Sorci > Reply-To: Steven Sorci > Subject: RE: MGB > > > I'm not good at explanations but I will try to explain you how the ebay > process > will work:1) You will send me your name and shipping address and eBay > user > ID.2) I will contact eBay to open a case and they will send you > theinvoice.3) > You will make the payment like is stated in the invoice.4) You will > send the > payment details at eBay.5) They will contact me to confirm the > payment.6) I > will send the item to your address and send you the trackingnumber. > The > shipping will take 3-4 days and you will receive it atyour door.7) > After you > will receive it and only if it is like I described ityou will contact > eBay to > release the payment to me.8) I will get the money and you will get the > product > Let me know if you understand how it works or if you have any > otherquestions.> > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:28:55 -0700> > _______________________________________________ > ptrmgb at gmail.com From elco506 at austin.rr.com Tue Jun 12 10:22:52 2007 From: elco506 at austin.rr.com (Brian Lundgren) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:22:52 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Ebay scam Message-ID: <001501c7ad0d$ed96eda0$6401a8c0@Brian> Did the message show up in your Ebay message box. If not, it's probably junk. You can forward the email to spoof at ebay.com and they'll let you know if it's legit. Brian Lundgren Elgin, TX From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 12 11:02:12 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:02:12 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] eBay scam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's pretty obviously a scam, when you're talking about a car: "6. I will send the item to your address and send you the tracking number. The shipping will take 3-4 days and you will receive it at your door." I think a B might be a bit over the UPS size and weight limits... In general, anytime they say "item" instead of mentioning it by name, you know it's bogus. The real seller would call it a 'car', or an 'MG', but the scammer is spamming all failed auctions. For all he knows, it's an antique lampshade. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/12/07 8:06 AM, DON SCOTT at rowdon at sonoma-county.org wrote: > In my quest for an early B roadster, I placed a low bid on a car located > back in Connecticut. My bid was less than the reserve price, so I knew > that it was very unlikely that I would be buying the car. Photos looked > nice, but buying a car without inspection would be very risky business > (I live in California). When the auction ended and the car was not > sold, I received a notification from eBay, or what seemed like eBay, > that I had a second chance offering whereby I could buy the car for > $6,000. The email notice looked very legitimate. Here's the email I > got from the "seller" who apparently was a scam artist and not the owner > or the car at all: > > ----- Forwarded message from Steven Sorci ----- > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:23:27 +0000 > From: Steven Sorci > Reply-To: Steven Sorci > Subject: RE: MGB > > > I'm not good at explanations but I will try to explain you how the ebay > process > will work:1) You will send me your name and shipping address and eBay > user > ID.2) I will contact eBay to open a case and they will send you > theinvoice.3) > You will make the payment like is stated in the invoice.4) You will > send the > payment details at eBay.5) They will contact me to confirm the > payment.6) I > will send the item to your address and send you the trackingnumber. > The > shipping will take 3-4 days and you will receive it atyour door.7) > After you > will receive it and only if it is like I described ityou will contact > eBay to > release the payment to me.8) I will get the money and you will get the > product > Let me know if you understand how it works or if you have any > otherquestions.> > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:28:55 -0700> From duvallcom at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 12 11:21:01 2007 From: duvallcom at sbcglobal.net (Mike Duvall) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:21:01 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] brake line fitting Message-ID: Can anyone tell me what the thread is on MGA brake lines? I lost the sensor at the 4 way connector near the engine. I got the sensor at a local NAPA but while getting it loose it I damaged the line that goes to the rear of the car. I took the fitting over to the local brake store and he sold me a line for $10. It is standard fitting he pulled from a small selection in front of the counter. He took the fitting and the line and checked them against a fitting and said they fit ok. He was concerned I didn't strip out my 4 way. I'm concerned it was a close fit but not the exact thread. I don't want to screw up my threads either....any advice is appreciated. Please respond to me directly as I get the digest not individual emails. thanks Mike From doddk at mossmotors.com Tue Jun 12 11:32:26 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:32:26 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] brake line fitting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AE515@kb1.mossmotors.com> Mike: We need to know the VIN number. Early 1500s had 3/8 x 20 BSF threads, later ones had 3/8 x 24 UNF Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Mike Duvall > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:21 AM > To: mgs > Subject: [Mgs] brake line fitting > > Can anyone tell me what the thread is on MGA brake lines? I lost the > sensor at the 4 way connector near the engine. I got the sensor at a > local NAPA but while getting it loose it I damaged the line that goes > to the rear of the car. I took the fitting over to the local brake > store and he sold me a line for $10. It is standard fitting he > pulled from a small selection in front of the counter. He took the > fitting and the line and checked them against a fitting and said > they fit ok. He was concerned I didn't strip out my 4 way. > > I'm concerned it was a close fit but not the exact thread. I don't > want to screw up my threads either....any advice is appreciated. > > Please respond to me directly as I get the digest not individual > emails. thanks > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > doddk at mossmotors.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From WSpohn4 at aol.com Tue Jun 12 11:39:20 2007 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:39:20 EDT Subject: [Mgs] brake line fitting Message-ID: In a message dated 12/06/2007 10:25:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, duvallcom at sbcglobal.net writes: Can anyone tell me what the thread is on MGA brake lines? I lost the sensor at the 4 way connector near the engine. I got the sensor at a local NAPA but while getting it loose it I damaged the line that goes to the rear of the car. I took the fitting over to the local brake store and he sold me a line for $10. It is standard fitting he pulled from a small selection in front of the counter. He took the fitting and the line and checked them against a fitting and said they fit ok. He was concerned I didn't strip out my 4 way. ____________________________________ Have to be careful - early cars had different threading - BSF. Even if it is a later car with SAE threading, NAPA ain't gonna have the fittings with the extra unthreaded spigot at the end that is required to seal in the British receptacle. I suppose you could take a long SAE tube nut and have machine shop remove a few threads, but the best thing to do is just have the original fitting put on the new line - you need a double flairing tool to do that. If you can't do that because the original has been buggered, you should buy a new nut - not sure if Moss carries them separately. Bill Spohn From twobees at sprynet.com Tue Jun 12 12:21:16 2007 From: twobees at sprynet.com (Norm) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:21:16 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] eBay scam Message-ID: <000001c7ad1e$777e79b0$372a76d0@normoffice> >>> "Paul Root" says, "This might not be a scam. There is "Second Chance" sales. If reserve is not met, the seller can offer it to the top bidder at his/her price. Also, if the winner backs out or otherwise fails to pay, the seller can offer that price to the next bidder." This has all the earmarks of a scam. If it were legit, the seller would already know your eBay ID. And, when is the last time you heard of a car being shipped cross-country in 3-4 days? ".. will send the item to your address and send you the trackingnumber. The shipping will take 3-4 days and you will receive it atyour door." It takes at least a few days to arrange for shipping and then while it may only take a few days for the actual trip, no one can say they will deliver your car to your door. Transport companies deliver where you arrange - as close as they can get. And, you will need a shipper's Bill of Lading number, not a tracking number. Think - SCAM, SCAM, SCAM! Norm Sippel From rolindsay at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 15:34:54 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] 1970 Tourer convertible top instructions Message-ID: <832404.8848.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Friends, Will someone please send to me - or point me in the right direction - instructions for raising and lowering the soft top on the 1970 MGB Tourer? My car's top frame pivots inward at the sides and I have seen no written instructions as to how to operate this mechanism properly or how to fold the top material to minimize damage to any part (and avoid pinched fingers). All helpful advice is appreciated. Rick From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 12 15:40:15 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:40:15 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 1970 Tourer convertible top instructions In-Reply-To: <832404.8848.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Complete Official MGB (commonly known as Bentley), 1962-74 version, describes it in the driver's handbook, p.7. on 6/12/07 2:34 PM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay at yahoo.com wrote: > Hello Friends, > Will someone please send to me - or point me in the > right direction - instructions for raising and > lowering the soft top on the 1970 MGB Tourer? My > car's top frame pivots inward at the sides and I have > seen no written instructions as to how to operate this > mechanism properly or how to fold the top material to > minimize damage to any part (and avoid pinched > fingers). All helpful advice is appreciated. > -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires From elco506 at austin.rr.com Tue Jun 12 15:41:47 2007 From: elco506 at austin.rr.com (Brian Lundgren) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:41:47 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Folding soft top Message-ID: <002601c7ad3a$7aa3ebe0$6401a8c0@Brian> Here are instructions for bot older and later model MGBs. Hope this helps http://www.mgexperience.net/article/pdf/MGB-manual-1970-softtop.pdf http://www.mgexperience.net/article/folding-top.html Brian Lundgren, V. P. Elgin Cotton Oil Mill, Inc. P. O. Box 506 Elgin, TX 78621 512.285.3933 From TR6UO at aol.com Tue Jun 12 15:41:52 2007 From: TR6UO at aol.com (TR6UO at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:41:52 EDT Subject: [Mgs] eBay scam Message-ID: A definite scam and not that unusual. You may have noticed that Ebay no longer identifies previous bidders during or after an auction for this very reason. I'm not sure how the scammer was able to contact you. As I keep saying, the best thing eBay has going for it is a false sense of security. Steve ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From grunt333 at verizon.net Tue Jun 12 16:34:58 2007 From: grunt333 at verizon.net (CARL ELLIOT) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] On the Road Message-ID: <821868.98061.qm@web84314.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Took the MG Automatic for first run today . not bad, Rear brakes need some work , must be from sitting. Wife will be very pleased . CarlE. From temporarilyoffline at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 17:56:08 2007 From: temporarilyoffline at gmail.com (Steve) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:56:08 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] On the Road In-Reply-To: <821868.98061.qm@web84314.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <821868.98061.qm@web84314.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <76664a460706121656n2adbf7fave8491b43249e4411@mail.gmail.com> Congratulations! Hope you had fun. - Steve On 6/12/07, CARL ELLIOT wrote: > > Took the MG Automatic for first run today . not bad, > Rear brakes need some work , must be from sitting. > Wife will be very pleased . CarlE. > _______________________________________________ > temporarilyoffline at gmail.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From rolindsay at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 18:14:22 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Just two pictures Message-ID: <199991.77721.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I just put up a couple of pictures. The first one is a shot of the dash. I've finished the instrument area except for the two little markers above the heater controls. Here's the look, http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0641.JPG . Further, you can see where I have removed the driver's seat in http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0643.JPG . I'm working on the carpets and repairing the seats next. Right now, I'm prepairing for the trip to Indy for the US F1 GP. No MG work for almost a week. Regards, rick From darby at tri-lakes.net Tue Jun 12 20:25:19 2007 From: darby at tri-lakes.net (David F. Darby) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:25:19 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] 1970 Tourer convertible top instructions References: <832404.8848.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005a01c7ad62$16a5bfb0$baf61640@YOURDC3E0B8F38> Rick, Uh, here's how I've tried it in the past with my MGA... http://www.geocities.com/dfdarby/topup.html Cheers, David (Tongue firmly in cheek) From WJHS1960 at comcast.net Tue Jun 12 21:16:44 2007 From: WJHS1960 at comcast.net (WJHS1960) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:16:44 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] brake line fitting References: Message-ID: <01ac01c7ad69$457a9020$6501a8c0@actualshop> <> Sounds like you have early car with BSF fittings and the sensor WOULD be SAE, Mike. Close but NO cigar!! Fitting will start on to sensor for 1.5, maybe 2 turns and binds, right? From duvallcom at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 12 21:45:46 2007 From: duvallcom at sbcglobal.net (Mike Duvall) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:45:46 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] brake line fitting In-Reply-To: <01ac01c7ad69$457a9020$6501a8c0@actualshop> References: <01ac01c7ad69$457a9020$6501a8c0@actualshop> Message-ID: <0BB29103-A2D7-4386-851F-E35681FF7D96@sbcglobal.net> Thanks for all the information. Actually, I discovered it does fit. I hand screwed it several turns but it didn't want to go further. Then I thought hmmmm, there are 3 other holes in that connection and it screwed, by hand, right into the other three without a problem. It didn't take any effort with the wrench to snug it up. I may have warped it a little trying to get the original connection out. The Moss catalog shows the dividing line for BSF and SAE at 27989 and above for SAE. My car is well above that number. I usually just buy from the folks who sell MG parts but the local brake and clutch store had helped me with hoses for my 36 TA and I thought if they can help with that the A will be a snap! I did examine the end carefully since Bill mentioned the differences and I'm not sure what difference it will make since they are both flared pipes. I'll guess I'll find out if it holds (please no safety flames ) Mike On Jun 12, 2007, at 10:16 PM, WJHS1960 wrote: > <> > > Sounds like you have early car with BSF fittings and the sensor > WOULD be SAE, Mike. > > Close but NO cigar!! Fitting will start on to sensor for 1.5, > maybe 2 turns and binds, right? From dwoerpel at wi.net Tue Jun 12 22:38:42 2007 From: dwoerpel at wi.net (David Woerpel) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:38:42 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] 1970 Tourer convertible top instructions In-Reply-To: <005a01c7ad62$16a5bfb0$baf61640@YOURDC3E0B8F38> References: <832404.8848.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005a01c7ad62$16a5bfb0$baf61640@YOURDC3E0B8F38> Message-ID: <466F74D2.5030209@wi.net> Great web site David! As the owner of a '59 1500, I too have wrestled the Walrus. I had practice on a '68 MGB, purchased new, and could erect the hood in under a minute; or under an overpass in the rain! ;-) The "A" however was designed by Edgar Allen Poe whilst on one of his fanciful "trips". Actually it's not all that bad. The pivots wear and the contraption gets sloppy and recalcitrant. If you want to have some fun, try figuring out a Sunbeam Alpine hood w/o directions. As one wag put it, "Erecting hoods is intuitive; it's all in the wrist." (Did I mention, presently he can only use one wrist?) Just another reason to love these cars! If you are in the area around the 26-29 of June 2008, the Spridgets are gathering at the Inn at Grand Glaize for the 50th Anniversary of the Austin Healey Sprite. Bring the "A", I'd love to see it. Regards, Dave '59 MGA 1500 rdstr '59 :{) '05 MCS Burlington WI David F. Darby wrote: > Rick, > > Uh, here's how I've tried it in the past with my MGA... > > http://www.geocities.com/dfdarby/topup.html > > Cheers, > > David > (Tongue firmly in cheek) From Rabeys at aol.com Tue Jun 12 23:13:35 2007 From: Rabeys at aol.com (Rabeys at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 01:13:35 EDT Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question Message-ID: The feedback on my turn signal problem has been helpful, but I just can't seem to get the suckers to work. I have re-wired my entire car twice ( we won't talk about why I had to do it twice), and I am still at a loss. I checked my hazard switch and the fuse connected to it and all the connections on the individual wiring harness it has. Everything seems fine. I even took the hazard switch from the parts car and connected it to my wiring harness. Same exact problem. No turn signals at all...not even the glow, but the hazards light up. Then I replaced the hazard wiring harness with mine and tried it on each switch. Nothing. I have tried every combo I can think of. And then I went through all the connections again. The strange thing is, I know they worked previously. My car was almost completely restored, and then I got in a wreck. Total front end damage. I only had to replace the radiator and then the fenders etc. and new lights. I had all new lights on the front which were destroyed. The new lights are from the parts car and they all seem to be working fine. So really, the only re-wiring I had to do was with the front lights and a few things in the engine bay. I didnt mess with the dash or the hazard switch etc. By rights, everything should have worked like before...of course, it is Lucas. Im an amateur when it comes to volt meters and anmeters. The most I have used is the probe thing that lights up. Im starting to think this problem may be beyond me and that I may not have the right equipment. I haven't given up yet, but I know my temper so I have had to step back and cool off before I destroy it! Thanks all for the tips. Always open for more...Steph ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Jun 13 02:43:53 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:43:53 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] 1970 Tourer convertible top instructions References: <832404.8848.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00d701c7ad97$eeeb8d70$0200a8c0@Three> You might like to have a look at http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/wn_bodyframe.htm and click on 'Roadster hood/top'. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Will someone please send to me - or point me in the > right direction - instructions for raising and > lowering the soft top on the 1970 MGB Tourer? From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Jun 13 03:08:45 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:08:45 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question References: Message-ID: <00ef01c7ad9c$2253f720$0200a8c0@Three> Start with the two greens (these are MGB colours, can't be sure how close they are to yours) on the hazard switch. With the hazards off and the ignition on both these should have 12v. If only on one green and not both either the switch is on, wired incorrectly, or faulty. If on neither check the green wires at the fusebox all have 12v. If not the problem is with the ignition or fusebox, if so then probably one of the several connectors linking green wires behind the dash is corroded or pulled apart. If both greens in the first test have 12v move on to the turn flasher, the green and light-green/brown there should also both have 12v. If neither then there is a break in the green between the hazard switch and the turn flasher, but that is unlikely as it should be a direct wire. If on the green but not the light-green/brown the turn flasher unit is faulty. If on both move on to the turn switch. If not on the light-green/brown at the turn switch there is a break in that wire between there and the turn flasher, which is quite possibly in one of the connectors joining the main harness to the switch harness, which may be multi-way plugs. Even when pushed fully together individual pins can get pushed out the back of one of the plastic mouldings, or otherwise not be making good contact, test both sides of the connection. If on the light-green/brown at the turn switch operate it first one way and then the other and check that 12v appears on the green/red and green/white wires at the switch. If not the switch is faulty. If so, but the corners still don't light, check these wires in the steering column connectors as above. From there out to the lights the circuit *should* be the same as for the hazards. If they still don't work, go through the sequence of tests above again, but this time operating the turn switch on and off which you are measuring the voltage. If the terminal shows 12v with the turn switch off, but drops with the turn switch on, there is a bad connection back towards the fusebox. If you find two points where on one the voltage does drop and on the other it doesn't, then the fault is between those two points. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > ... No turn signals at all...not even the glow, but the hazards > light up. From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 05:27:56 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] On the Road In-Reply-To: <821868.98061.qm@web84314.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <565396.20077.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> CARL ELLIOT wrote: Took the MG Automatic for first run today . not bad, Rear brakes need some work , must be from sitting. Wife will be very pleased . CarlE. ---------------- Would love to see some pictures of that, Carl.... The transformation would also make a god article for one of the MG magazines...... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 05:29:12 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] 1970 Tourer convertible top instructions In-Reply-To: <832404.8848.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <607574.10657.qm@web50910.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Rick Lindsay wrote: Hello Friends, Will someone please send to me - or point me in the right direction - instructions for raising and lowering the soft top on the 1970 MGB Tourer? My car's top frame pivots inward at the sides and I have seen no written instructions as to how to operate this mechanism properly or how to fold the top material to minimize damage to any part (and avoid pinched fingers). All helpful advice is appreciated. -------------------- Rick, does your car have the first type of attached folding top, the 'scissors' type? I don't think I've ever seen one of those before, and am not even sure if it folds the same as the later folding top.... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From rolindsay at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 07:42:02 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question In-Reply-To: <00ef01c7ad9c$2253f720$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <617446.56400.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Note to all who need to know more electrical bits and don't have the tools: Harbor Freight has a cheap volt-ohm meter that is all the precision and quality needed for our trouble shooting. And its dead-cheap. Take a look here: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90899 rick --- Paul Hunt wrote: > Start with the two greens (these are MGB colours, > can't be sure how close > they are to yours) on the hazard switch. With the > hazards off and the > ignition on both these should have 12v. > > If only on one green and not both either the switch > is on, wired > incorrectly, or faulty. > > If on neither check the green wires at the fusebox > all have 12v. If not the > problem is with the ignition or fusebox, if so then > probably one of the > several connectors linking green wires behind the > dash is corroded or pulled > apart. > > If both greens in the first test have 12v move on to > the turn flasher, the > green and light-green/brown there should also both > have 12v. If neither > then there is a break in the green between the > hazard switch and the turn > flasher, but that is unlikely as it should be a > direct wire. If on the > green but not the light-green/brown the turn flasher > unit is faulty. > > If on both move on to the turn switch. If not on > the light-green/brown at > the turn switch there is a break in that wire > between there and the turn > flasher, which is quite possibly in one of the > connectors joining the main > harness to the switch harness, which may be > multi-way plugs. Even when > pushed fully together individual pins can get pushed > out the back of one of > the plastic mouldings, or otherwise not be making > good contact, test both > sides of the connection. > > If on the light-green/brown at the turn switch > operate it first one way and > then the other and check that 12v appears on the > green/red and green/white > wires at the switch. If not the switch is faulty. > If so, but the corners > still don't light, check these wires in the steering > column connectors as > above. From there out to the lights the circuit > *should* be the same as for > the hazards. > > If they still don't work, go through the sequence of > tests above again, but > this time operating the turn switch on and off which > you are measuring the > voltage. If the terminal shows 12v with the turn > switch off, but drops with > the turn switch on, there is a bad connection back > towards the fusebox. If > you find two points where on one the voltage does > drop and on the other it > doesn't, then the fault is between those two points. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > ... No turn signals at all...not even the glow, > but the hazards > > light up. > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From battanhr at comcast.net Wed Jun 13 08:13:58 2007 From: battanhr at comcast.net (Howard Battan) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:13:58 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004501c7adc5$15c2a9b0$6600a8c0@XPS410> Have you replaced the turn signal flasher? My similar problem was cured with a new one. -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rabeys at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:14 PM To: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk; mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question The feedback on my turn signal problem has been helpful, but I just can't seem to get the suckers to work. I have re-wired my entire car twice ( we won't talk about why I had to do it twice), and I am still at a loss. From dwoerpel at wi.net Wed Jun 13 10:04:51 2007 From: dwoerpel at wi.net (David Woerpel) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:04:51 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] 1970 Tourer convertible top instructions In-Reply-To: <00d701c7ad97$eeeb8d70$0200a8c0@Three> References: <832404.8848.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00d701c7ad97$eeeb8d70$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <467015A3.1030605@wi.net> Hey! That's precisely how I do the MGA! The only difference is one must deal with the spare tire. Great web site. Anybody on the list live near Burlington? I saw my twin Monday on Hwy 36 and Spring Valley Rd. MGA, OEW and the bonnet was open to the safety latch (cooling problem?). Dave '59 MGA 1500 rdstr '59 :{) '05 MCS Burlington WI Paul Hunt wrote: > You might like to have a look at > http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/wn_bodyframe.htm > and click on 'Roadster hood/top'. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> Will someone please send to me - or point me in the >> right direction - instructions for raising and >> lowering the soft top on the 1970 MGB Tourer? From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 13 10:29:33 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:29:33 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hmm, the story about the wreck implies to me that the front wings may be electrically isolated from the chassis. That is, there is no path to ground, due to paint, packing or rubber welting. Try running an independent ground wire to the engine block, temporarily, from one of the lamp housings. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/12/07 10:13 PM, Rabeys at aol.com at Rabeys at aol.com wrote: > The feedback on my turn signal problem has been helpful, but I just can't > seem to get the suckers to work. I have re-wired my entire car twice ( we > won't talk about why I had to do it twice), and I am still at a loss. I > checked > my hazard switch and the fuse connected to it and all the connections on the > individual wiring harness it has. Everything seems fine. I even took the > hazard switch from the parts car and connected it to my wiring harness. Same > exact problem. No turn signals at all...not even the glow, but the hazards > light up. Then I replaced the hazard wiring harness with mine and tried it > on > each switch. Nothing. I have tried every combo I can think of. And then I > went through all the connections again. > > The strange thing is, I know they worked previously. My car was almost > completely restored, and then I got in a wreck. Total front end damage. I > only > had to replace the radiator and then the fenders etc. and new lights. I had > all new lights on the front which were destroyed. The new lights are from > the parts car and they all seem to be working fine. So really, the only > re-wiring I had to do was with the front lights and a few things in the > engine bay. > I didnt mess with the dash or the hazard switch etc. By rights, everything > should have worked like before...of course, it is Lucas. > > Im an amateur when it comes to volt meters and anmeters. The most I have > used is the probe thing that lights up. Im starting to think this problem > may > be beyond me and that I may not have the right equipment. > > I haven't given up yet, but I know my temper so I have had to step back and > cool off before I destroy it! > > Thanks all for the tips. Always open for more...Steph From smarc at smarc.net Wed Jun 13 15:11:27 2007 From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:11:27 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question In-Reply-To: <617446.56400.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <617446.56400.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46705D7F.8020503@smarc.net> FWIW, Those multi-testers all seem to suffer from a very poor function selector switch. I thought they were cheap enough to keep as a disposable in the tool box of every vehicle I own. But you just need to be aware that a zero voltage reading may just mean that you need to 'jiggle' the selector switch... Also, the lack of an auto-off function plays hell with battery life! Marc Rick Lindsay wrote: > Note to all who need to know more electrical bits and > don't have the tools: Harbor Freight has a cheap > volt-ohm meter that is all the precision and quality > needed for our trouble shooting. And its dead-cheap. > Take a look here: > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90899 > > rick From mvrose at charter.net Wed Jun 13 19:24:38 2007 From: mvrose at charter.net (Valda and Merl Rosenthal) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:24:38 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 1980 MGB Dash Board Cover Message-ID: <003c01c7ae22$c9496520$aa43ba44@Primary> I have a brand new dash cover for a 1980 MGB for sale. The box the cover came in has not been opened. I will sell it for $80.00 and shipping. Merl Rosenthal From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jun 14 01:50:23 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:50:23 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question References: Message-ID: <013901c7ae58$eef16120$0200a8c0@Three> In that case although the fronts wouldn't light at all the rears would light but not flash. Would also affect the front parking lights, unless they are in the headlights as per later models. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Hmm, the story about the wreck implies to me that the front wings may be > electrically isolated from the chassis. That is, there is no path to > ground, > due to paint, packing or rubber welting. From raspberrybanana at juno.com Thu Jun 14 19:32:11 2007 From: raspberrybanana at juno.com (raspberrybanana at juno.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 01:32:11 GMT Subject: [Mgs] will pay for a MG Midget Hub Message-ID: <20070614.193211.16885.0@webmail02.lax.untd.com> Hey! I have a very nice 79 Midget and the front passenger wheel is loose. you can wiggle it by hand. I thought it was the bearings in the hub and had that rebuilt. No Avail! I am now looking for a new hub AND the post it goes on to. Does that make sense? Please email me at raspberrybanana at juno.com with part info :) or post to this list! thanks BTW preferably it should be for wire wheels, if not that is ok. (I have the conversion peice) Marty _____________________________________________________________ Get free information on how to make money by trading currency. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?u=http://tagline.untd.us/fc/CAaCX09txzTTbWNACSpaok ARuJNCSDkL/ From Rabeys at aol.com Thu Jun 14 21:22:28 2007 From: Rabeys at aol.com (Rabeys at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:22:28 EDT Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question Message-ID: I'm going to throw a couple more things into the mix that I didn't really think about before. I went through the wiring diagram...again. i noticed that several things lead to the same ground: panel lamps, heater motor, wiper motor....I'm kind of brain storming here. Earlier I thought I made a great discovery, but now not so sure. So, my panel lamps are not working and neither are the windshield and signal switches. I dont know if its related, but at some point I took the heater out. It wasnt working anyway. I taped off the ground and other wire. I also didnt have the wires plugged into the heater/fan switch on the dash. Is there something to do with a circuit not being completed? I tried plugging the fan switch wires in and I also grounded the fan wire to the car since the heater is not in. Do i need to put the heater back in and plug everything in to complete a circuit? It seems like the fact that all these things that are not working now and were working prior to my wreck should be related somehow. But i cant remember at what point I took the heater out and if it made a difference. I also took a front light out and sanded the body to the metal where it bolts just in case that made a difference. Nothing again...but I think Paul had said the rear lights should have been glowing still anyway and they arent. When I replaced the relay for the turn signals, the right one worked for a short time and the left one would blink sporadically. Then at some point they stopped working at all and would not even glow. Seems wierd that they would have even worked at all. Could the relay have somehow shorted out because of something else that is still wrong and thats why it worked for a very short time? Dont know if this complicated the issue but wanted to throw it out there. Think I will likely be going to Harbor Frieght to pick up the voltmeter. Thanks again for all the tips...steph ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 15 01:57:11 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 08:57:11 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] will pay for a MG Midget Hub References: <20070614.193211.16885.0@webmail02.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <00c501c7af24$d74fe790$0200a8c0@Three> If the *wheel* is loose it could be one or more of several things - loose wheel nuts, badly adjusted hub shims or very badly worn bearings, worn swivel axle bushes, worn upper and lower wishbones, either outer or inner. If the play is only when rocking the wheel from side to side and not top and bottom it could be track-rod ends, rack, etc. This is what I'd be looking at on an MGB, I don't know how the Midget varies. Before you splash out for anything else you need to know where the play is coming from, diagnose is cheaper than parts replacement willy-nilly. In the case of MGB bearings there is *supposed* to be slight play, this is the end-float which is set by shims. As I say I don't know whether that applies to the Midget. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Hey! I have a very nice 79 Midget and the front passenger wheel is > loose. you can wiggle it by hand. I thought it was the bearings in the > hub and had that rebuilt. No Avail! I am now looking for a new hub AND > the post it goes on to. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 15 02:15:58 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 09:15:58 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] 1972 MG Midget wiring question References: Message-ID: <00d601c7af26$f17a2340$0200a8c0@Three> Whilst the panel lamps and wipers not working could be due to a common ground fault, there is no connection between that ground and the turn signals. Neither would removing the heater have any effect on any other circuit, *unless* the 12v wire were allowed to come into contact with a ground while the heater switch was on (which should blow the fuse). But if the wires weren't connected to the switch either then there is no way they can affect anything, unless the *green* wire at the switch came into contact with ground (same result as before). If the rear lights aren't working either then you need to be looking at the 12v feed to them, not the grounds which are all independent. Have you looked for 12v on any of the wires yet? You should, with a meter or test-lamp (i.e. a bulb with a couple of wires soldered on if nothing else), you will never diagnose electrical problems without that. I still haven't been able to locate a 72 Midget wiring diagram on the web but a 72 MGB has a 4-fuse fusebox and the top two fuses are for the parking lights, one fuse per side. There is a single red/green going to the front of those two fuses (they are linked together underneath). The back of the top two fuses has 4 red wires, 2 per fuse, and these go out to the corners of the car. With the main lighting switch in its middle position (parking lights only) see if you have 12v on the red/green. If so, check the other side of the fuses. If not check at the main lighting switch itself, and any connectors between it and the main harness. If the parking lights aren't working *or* the panel lights, the switch or its connections are a common cause. With the turn signals check you have 12v both sides of the flasher unit (it's not really a relay) with the ignition on, moving the turn switch on and off (both sides) to see if the voltage changes. If it stays at 12v check the three connections between the turn switch and the harness. If there is voltage on one terminal of the turn flasher but not the other the turn flasher is faulty. If it's on neither terminal of the turn flasher check the two green wires (I'm assuming) on the hazard flasher. On one but not the other, with the hazards off, means the switch is faulty. On neither means the fused ignition supply isn't reaching it, could be a bad connection at the fusebox or one of the several green bullet connectors behind the dash pulled apart or corroded. That's assuming that at least one of the other fused ignition circuits like brake lights, fuel gauge etc. are working. If none of those are working then you need to check the green circuit fuse, but if there is no voltage on the white terminals of the fusebox then the ignition switch or its connections. In fact if you have the main lighting switch on the steering column housing, the one common pint for all these problems is connections around the steering column. Not that poking around there is any substitute for proper diagnosis, of course >:| PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > So, my panel lamps are not working and neither are the windshield and > signal > switches... From RampantNM at aol.com Fri Jun 15 08:16:04 2007 From: RampantNM at aol.com (RampantNM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:16:04 EDT Subject: [Mgs] will pay for a MG Midget Hub Message-ID: In a message dated 6/15/2007 3:11:48 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk writes: If the *wheel* is loose it could be one or more of several things - loose wheel nuts, badly adjusted hub shims or very badly worn bearings, worn swivel axle bushes, worn upper and lower wishbones, either outer or inner. If the play is only when rocking the wheel from side to side and not top and bottom it could be track-rod ends, rack, etc. Could also be the wire wheel splines or spokes... RH ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From jello at ida.net Fri Jun 15 09:31:36 2007 From: jello at ida.net (Phil Bates) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 09:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Mgs] Oil Pressure line early Healey (almost midget content) Message-ID: <1889.209.180.80.45.1181921496.squirrel@webmail.ida.net> I have a buddy restoring an Austin-Healey Sprite. He's trying to figure outhow to connect up the oil pressure gauge. Any advice?? I see moss says you have to soldier the line in. Phil Bates From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 15 10:01:05 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 17:01:05 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Oil Pressure line early Healey (almost midget content) References: <1889.209.180.80.45.1181921496.squirrel@webmail.ida.net> Message-ID: <00e001c7af66$66528ec0$0200a8c0@Three> That would be unusual, it would depend on what is there are already. If there is an oil pressure switch then there is a special tee that screws in to the block in place of the switch, the switch screws into the end of the tee, and the pipe from the gauge then screws onto the side of the tee. Alternatively if the gauge is replacing the switch a male-to-male adapter screws into the block and the gauge pipe on to that. These all have tapered BSP fittings. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- >I have a buddy restoring an Austin-Healey Sprite. He's trying to figure > outhow to connect up the oil pressure gauge. Any advice?? I see moss > says you have to soldier the line in. From 1971mgb at cox.net Fri Jun 15 10:46:03 2007 From: 1971mgb at cox.net (1971-red-mgb) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:46:03 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] wobble Message-ID: <000c01c7af6c$a951af20$3537a046@ownerlziq1i9t3> I've experienced an phenomenal that's new to me on my 71 MGB and that is every time I apply the brake my front starts to wobble, the wobble is transferred from the front all the way up the steering wheel which has a site to site vibration, when I let off the brakes all seems normal. I had the wheel balanced two days ago and al is well with that,. any thoughts of where I should start looking ? From doddk at mossmotors.com Fri Jun 15 11:05:01 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:05:01 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] wobble In-Reply-To: <000c01c7af6c$a951af20$3537a046@ownerlziq1i9t3> Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AE9ED@kb1.mossmotors.com> Usually this is caused by burnt brake pad material adhering to the brake rotor causing a grab - slide phenomenon. It's often misdiagnosed as warped rotors. The fix is the same for either diagnosis. If there is sufficient material left on the brake rotor, the faces can be cleaned and de-grooved by a machine shop. MGB brake rotors don't have a lot of meat on them, so it may be necessary to install new rotors and pads. It may be cheaper too, as the price of new rotors is pretty low. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of 1971-red-mgb > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 9:46 AM > To: MG LIST > Subject: [Mgs] wobble > > I've experienced an phenomenal that's new to me on my 71 MGB and that is > every > time I apply the brake my front starts to wobble, the wobble is > transferred > from the front all the way up the steering wheel which has a site to site > vibration, when I let off the brakes all seems normal. I had the wheel > balanced two days ago and al is well with that,. > any thoughts of where I should start looking ? From WSpohn4 at aol.com Fri Jun 15 11:27:08 2007 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:27:08 EDT Subject: [Mgs] wobble Message-ID: In a message dated 15/06/2007 10:05:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, doddk at mossmotors.com writes: If there is sufficient material left on the brake rotor, the faces can be cleaned and de-grooved by a machine shop. MGB brake rotors don't have a lot of meat on them, so it may be necessary to install new rotors and pads. It may be cheaper too, as the price of new rotors is pretty low. ____________________________________ Just to add to what Kelvin said, new rotors are cheap like Borscht - replacing them on an MGB isn't painful at all. You only have as I recall, about .040" to play with at most. You do NOT need to clean off all the scoring from dust and grit. Although it makes a nice looking rotor, it doesn't affect braking much at all. Better to leave a few divots than to cut the rotor down enough to clean even the deepest marks. The reason is twofold. First, the scoring doesn't cause a problem with the pads - they wear into the score pattern very quickly and you'll never know they are there. Second, if you cut the rotor down too much, you have the pistons coming out even further, they can corrode on the newly exposed surfaces and you'll probably be looking at new pistons next time you put new pads in and push those now rough pistons back into the bore (they typically don't seal very well thereafter). One caveat - I used to work on a shop that did brakes and we quickly learned to take a few thou skim on brand new rotors to true them up as they were notoriously slightly out of true and if we didn't do this, we'd get come backs with brake pedal pulsing etc. Kelvin can probably tell us if that is still true (no pun intended), although even if it were, he might not hear about it as the shops would just true them up rather than bitching about it. Bill Spohn From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri Jun 15 12:12:48 2007 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 06:12:48 -1200 Subject: [Mgs] wobble Message-ID: <4672d6a0.124.100a8.1515813422@ml2.myemail.com> As others have mentioned, brake rotor warpage is the first thing that comes to mind. It was the first thing that came to mind when our '78 MGB developed an odd front end behavior. Trueing the rotors did not fix it... Turns out the rubber pads between the crossmember and body had perished. Tightening the cross member to body bolts didn't help as they are shouldered bolts (threw me off for a while as I thought that connection was thus tight). I replaced the pads (with polyurethane pads) and all became well again. Eric Russell Mebane, NC > Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:46:03 -0400 > From: "1971-red-mgb" <1971mgb at cox.net> > Subject: [Mgs] wobble > To: "MG LIST" > > I've experienced an phenomenal that's new to me on my 71 > MGB and that is every time I apply the brake my front > starts to wobble, the wobble is transferred from the front > all the way up the steering wheel which has a site to site > vibration, when I let off the brakes all seems normal. I > had the wheel balanced two days ago and al is well with > that,. any thoughts of where I should start looking ? Login from home, work, school. Anywhere! From jello at ida.net Fri Jun 15 13:34:35 2007 From: jello at ida.net (Phil Bates) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:34:35 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Mgs] Oil Pressure line early Healey (almost midget content) In-Reply-To: <014701c7af67$65cb19d0$6501a8c0@actualshop> References: <1889.209.180.80.45.1181921496.squirrel@webmail.ida.net> <014701c7af67$65cb19d0$6501a8c0@actualshop> Message-ID: <2585.209.180.80.45.1181936075.squirrel@webmail.ida.net> That's complex. The Sprite is a 1960, but the engine is a midget engine - 1275 engine # 12CD-Da-H1340. Ok, now there is some MG content. > Phil: > > What year?? > > Ed From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Jun 16 07:45:07 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:45:07 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] wobble References: Message-ID: <010e01c7b01d$cec11910$0200a8c0@Three> When I changed my discs over from Rostyle hubs to wire wheel I found the nuts/bolts were recessed and a standard socket did not fit well at all. Even by pressing the socket onto the nut (or bolt) as I turned I was only just able to undo them, but could easily have damaged the flats. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > replacing them on an MGB isn't painful at all. From RampantNM at aol.com Sat Jun 16 12:14:32 2007 From: RampantNM at aol.com (RampantNM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:14:32 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Gulp Valve Question Message-ID: I've removed the smog pump from my 74.5 BGT this morning and will put the plugs in the head shortly (thanks Larry). One question, probably already asked and answered, but what should I do about the gulp valve? Block it off? Remove it and plug the intake manifold hose? Also, there is no EGR are valve evident from the front timing cover hose to the inlet on the intake....any aftermarket thoughts on one I could find at Autozone or PepBoys today? Robert Houston ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From RampantNM at aol.com Sat Jun 16 12:14:32 2007 From: RampantNM at aol.com (RampantNM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:14:32 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Gulp Valve Question Message-ID: I've removed the smog pump from my 74.5 BGT this morning and will put the plugs in the head shortly (thanks Larry). One question, probably already asked and answered, but what should I do about the gulp valve? Block it off? Remove it and plug the intake manifold hose? Also, there is no EGR are valve evident from the front timing cover hose to the inlet on the intake....any aftermarket thoughts on one I could find at Autozone or PepBoys today? Robert Houston ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From smarc at smarc.net Sat Jun 16 15:53:03 2007 From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:53:03 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Oh No! Harness burnt up! Message-ID: <46745BBF.5080601@smarc.net> I started up my LE and within seconds heavy smoke erupted from under the dash. I turned off the key, jumped out and disconnected the battery. Digging around, I found the white/green from the ignition switch melted, heavily damaging the rest of the adjacent wires. That harness is cooked. I think white/green goes to the starter solenoid, right? I just replaced that a few months ago. I can't imagine what the heck could have happened??? I am dismayed.... guess I'll start taking it apart to see what went wrong... -- Marc From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sat Jun 16 19:01:39 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Gulp Valve Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <502334.32116.qm@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My solution has been to block off the entire valve as it is a potential source of vacuum leak. The less green just rout the crankcase breather, via a long hose, down under the car. Why? Adding oil vapor back to the inlet charge the lowers the effective octane. rick --- RampantNM at aol.com wrote: > I've removed the smog pump from my 74.5 BGT this > morning and will put the > plugs in the head shortly (thanks Larry). One > question, probably already asked > and answered, but what should I do about the gulp > valve? Block it off? > Remove it and plug the intake manifold hose? > > Also, there is no EGR are valve evident from the > front timing cover hose to > the inlet on the intake....any aftermarket thoughts > on one I could find at > Autozone or PepBoys today? > > Robert Houston > > > > ************************************** See what's > free at http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 16 19:23:51 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:23:51 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Gulp Valve Question In-Reply-To: <502334.32116.qm@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Maybe, from a technical standpoint, but I really doubt it *effectively* lowers the octane. Unless you have a major crankcase pressurization problem, like bad rings, you'd only be talking a few parts per million of oil -- you're probably gettng more than that through the valvestem seals. I wouldn't consider that a factor whatsoever. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/16/07 6:01 PM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay at yahoo.com wrote: > My solution has been to block off the entire valve as > it is a potential source of vacuum leak. The less > green just rout the crankcase breather, via a long > hose, down under the car. Why? Adding oil vapor back > to the inlet charge the lowers the effective octane. > > rick > > --- RampantNM at aol.com wrote: > >> I've removed the smog pump from my 74.5 BGT this >> morning and will put the >> plugs in the head shortly (thanks Larry). One >> question, probably already asked >> and answered, but what should I do about the gulp >> valve? Block it off? >> Remove it and plug the intake manifold hose? >> >> Also, there is no EGR are valve evident from the >> front timing cover hose to >> the inlet on the intake....any aftermarket thoughts >> on one I could find at >> Autozone or PepBoys today? >> >> Robert Houston From 1971mgb at cox.net Sat Jun 16 19:37:26 2007 From: 1971mgb at cox.net (1971-red-mgb) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:37:26 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] wobble References: <000c01c7af6c$a951af20$3537a046@ownerlziq1i9t3> <4672C453.9090206@byu.net> Message-ID: <001e01c7b080$0f82c7c0$3537a046@ownerlziq1i9t3> Thank to all for taking the time to answer my inquiry about the wobble in my front end when applying the brakes on the 71 "B" . I've ordered new brake rotors and brake disk pads today, hopefully that will solve the problem, should that fail then I'll go after the bushing, again thanks to all. From smarc at smarc.net Sat Jun 16 19:35:16 2007 From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:35:16 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Oh No! Harness burnt up! Message-ID: <46748FD4.40200@smarc.net> Looking at the wiring diagram, the only white/green wire on the ignition switch is the radio wire, which is supposed to be fused... Perhaps a little better situation, but "something bad" happened to cause this... -- Marc On 6/16/07, Marc wrote: I started up my LE and within seconds heavy smoke erupted from under the dash. I turned off the key, jumped out and disconnected the battery. Digging around, I found the white/green from the ignition switch melted, heavily damaging the rest of the adjacent wires. That harness is cooked. I think white/green goes to the starter solenoid, right? I just replaced that a few months ago. I can't imagine what the heck could have happened??? I am dismayed.... guess I'll start taking it apart to see what went wrong... From wbmcleod at cox.net Sat Jun 16 21:16:10 2007 From: wbmcleod at cox.net (William McLeod) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 20:16:10 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 1980 MGB to be for sale Message-ID: <9D67E18F-E401-4CE3-8FF3-0D1848544EB5@cox.net> I just bought a 1980 MGB, with Air (not charged), OD transmission, hardtop, totally rust-free, running and driving well despite having all the correct emissions equipment for the year, generally quite straight other than a small kink in the trunk lid (hinge point), pretty dead paint and a semi-shabby interior. I should have pictures next week. Will be asking around $3,000. Located in Tucson, AZ (desert car). Any interest before I throw it on ebay? Sorry to bomb the list, but somebody has to! Regards, Bill From toms_mg at tombuchanan.net Sun Jun 17 07:40:26 2007 From: toms_mg at tombuchanan.net (toms_mg at tombuchanan.net) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:40:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries Message-ID: <1275.70.11.76.39.1182087626.squirrel@saturn.afmu.com> I travel around alot with a laptop with a cellphone hooked so I can stay connected to the internet. There are times that the computer will run the battery down when I leave it on too long with out the engine running. What I'm planning to do is to put two 12v batteries (one in each battery hole in my early 74 B) connected in parallel which will still give me 12v but twice the usage time or twice the cranking time (I'll use marine battery clamps so I can take advantage of straps instead of "T" clamps). I also plan to put a battery cutoff switch on the jump seat wall behind the driver's seat on the negative side. Does anyone see any problems with my plans? Thanks Tom From mghirsch at netzero.net Sun Jun 17 08:06:29 2007 From: mghirsch at netzero.net (Maynard Hirsch) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:06:29 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries Message-ID: <002101c7b0e8$b5544ad0$6600a8c0@maynardi2jlr25> There is a device available at marine dealers called an iosolator. It allows the alternator to charge two batteries at once. From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Sun Jun 17 09:25:04 2007 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:25:04 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Gulp Valve Question References: <502334.32116.qm@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c7b0f3$adff7510$1e00a8c0@uw471de61b465c> This conversion is well described in Lindsay Porter's boor How to restore and DIY MGB. Incxluding reasonable good pictures. Good luck. Cheers, Hans 1971 converted BGT - ex Calif. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lindsay" To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Gulp Valve Question > My solution has been to block off the entire valve as > it is a potential source of vacuum leak. The less > green just rout the crankcase breather, via a long > hose, down under the car. Why? Adding oil vapor back > to the inlet charge the lowers the effective octane. > > rick > > --- RampantNM at aol.com wrote: > >> I've removed the smog pump from my 74.5 BGT this >> morning and will put the >> plugs in the head shortly (thanks Larry). One >> question, probably already asked >> and answered, but what should I do about the gulp >> valve? Block it off? >> Remove it and plug the intake manifold hose? >> >> Also, there is no EGR are valve evident from the >> front timing cover hose to >> the inlet on the intake....any aftermarket thoughts >> on one I could find at >> Autozone or PepBoys today? >> >> Robert Houston From WJHS1960 at comcast.net Sun Jun 17 12:06:18 2007 From: WJHS1960 at comcast.net (WJHS1960) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 13:06:18 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries References: <1275.70.11.76.39.1182087626.squirrel@saturn.afmu.com> Message-ID: <0c5001c7b10a$348d4010$6501a8c0@actualshop> << I also plan to put a battery cutoff switch on the jump seat wall behind the driver's seat on the negative side. Does anyone see any problems with my plans?>> Sort of good idea Tom, but there is a better way. -:) In a previous period of time I designed electrical systems & bodies for ambulances, mini-fire trucks and mini-resques trucks. IMHO, a dual battery switch (in the bulkhead is fine) would be a much better choise. Essentily is would allow you to have your goodies connected and an OFF (disconnect from BOTH batteries) Batt. #1, Batt. #2, and Both Batts.! When you get somewhere that you want goodies to operate just switch to one of the Batts.. That leave to other OUT of the circuit and not being discharged. Or in the OFF(both dis-connected). Now when your goodies run A batt down, you have the other Batt. to Start and run on. If both batts are good and new, you can start and run with the Alternator charging both. If the goodies batt. is REALLY dead just switch to UN-used one and off you go. The addition of an Isolater is STILL a good idea as even if you Start and Run on the un-used one it WILL allow both to be charged WITH no effect as to draining the good one whereas without the isolater you would have to put the goodies one on a battery charger to bring at least "up to snuff". Now, if you DO go this route you sould go check with Fire Department's Equipment Chief (easiest) or private ambulance and check a couple vehicle Spec Manuals. Ed From WJHS1960 at comcast.net Sun Jun 17 12:14:06 2007 From: WJHS1960 at comcast.net (WJHS1960) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 13:14:06 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries References: <1275.70.11.76.39.1182087626.squirrel@saturn.afmu.com> Message-ID: <0c8a01c7b10b$4b282ff0$6501a8c0@actualshop> Rats. For got link to Manufacture that was and mostly still supplies 90% of both F.D.'s and private ambulance Cos. Didn't look for Isolater (but know they have) but Dual Batt. Switch is here: http://www.colehersee.com/catalog_top/index.htm Product M-750 (can't get it out of my MIND-:) ) From eric at erickson.on.net Sun Jun 17 12:37:14 2007 From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric Erickson) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 04:07:14 +0930 Subject: [Mgs] Formula 1 (No MG content) In-Reply-To: <567492.3334.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <567492.3334.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7FA72E07-C899-4C6C-B107-CC1FE42FA237@erickson.on.net> On 10/06/2007, at 11:56 AM, Rick Lindsay wrote: > > This year I am working pit-in and operating > communications from that station. Well Rick, Can you tell us who the marshall was who dropped their flag on the racetrack? :-) We have a bit of a trophy/title for any Australian marshall that does that (I have only seen it once when a car went along the wall at turn three, Albert Park, into the gravel trap and sucked the flag out of the guy's hands). I hope you had a great time - I had to stay up rather late to watch the race in Australia. It started at 2:30am here and finished at 4:00am! You didn't wave to us (they kept cutting you out of the camera angles at pit entry). Murray Walker predicted Hamilton would be winner of the championship this year - and that was just after the first GP of the year. I hope he put some money on that prediction. I hope everyone enjoyed the race - it was a good one again. Eric From barrie at look.ca Sun Jun 17 15:57:24 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:57:24 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] (no subject) Message-ID: Met a chap at a car do today. He drooled over my V8 and said he was going t build one but he got sick - and he looked it!! Here are details. It is somewhere close to Toronto MGB GT 1973 for sale $2,500 - that's Canadian. Complete except prop shaft missing Body sound Bits in boxes. Was going to fit Buick or Rover Dave Legge 905-639-0645 Too sick to finish Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From barrie at look.ca Sun Jun 17 16:33:07 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:33:07 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries In-Reply-To: <1275.70.11.76.39.1182087626.squirrel@saturn.afmu.com> References: <1275.70.11.76.39.1182087626.squirrel@saturn.afmu.com> Message-ID: Without seeming to be a smart sod, why would anyone want to be plugged into the 'net continually? Why don't you get smart and organise your life...... and work !! I was at a car show today and had to give a chap a telephone number - He asked his two daughters if they had a pencil - Neither had pen or paper. He launched into high efficiency high tech and asked them to text the number to him - but both their cell phone batteries were flat - They were in complete confusion, so I got a scrap of paper and pen from the MGB. The latter I showed them as my "high tech" device and how it was switched on!!!!! I wrote the number on the scrap of paper and gave it to the chap. I advised both girls to go really really high tech and keep pen and paper in their handbags !!! At 09:40 AM 6/17/2007, toms_mg at tombuchanan.net wrote: > I travel around alot with a laptop with a cellphone hooked so I can >stay connected to the internet. There are times that the computer will >run the battery down when I leave it on too long with out the engine >running. What I'm planning to do is to put two 12v batteries (one in >each battery hole in my early 74 B) connected in parallel which will >still give me 12v but twice the usage time or twice the cranking time >(I'll use marine battery clamps so I can take advantage of straps >instead of "T" clamps). > I also plan to put a battery cutoff switch on the jump seat wall behind >the driver's seat on the negative side. > Does anyone see any problems with my plans? > >Thanks >Tom >_______________________________________________ >barrie at look.ca > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From barneymg at mgaguru.com Mon Jun 18 00:29:29 2007 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 01:29:29 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries In-Reply-To: References: <1275.70.11.76.39.1182087626.squirrel@saturn.afmu.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.1.20070618005909.01e88710@mgaguru.com> At 09:40 AM 6/17/2007, toms_mg at tombuchanan.net wrote: > > I travel around alot with a laptop with a cellphone hooked so > I can stay connected to the internet. .... At 06:33 PM 6/17/2007 -0400, Barrie Robinson wrote: >Without seeming to be a smart sod, why would anyone want to be >plugged into the 'net continually? Why don't you get smart and >organise your life...... and work !! Don't rag on him too hard. I took a laptop along on my two month MG trip to Alaska ten years ago, specifically to keep in touch with friends on the mgs e-mail list. No cell phone, but we did manage to plug into a land line periodically. Technology being what it was in those days (cell phone wouldn't work in Alaska anyway), we had the laptop computer with internal battery and AC to DC power pack, an external dial-up modem, a digital to accustical converter (to operate from a pay phone if needed), a 4-amp-hour 12-volt battery pack, and a DC-to-AC inverter to run the AC toys from either the car or the battery pack. The battery pack could recharge from either AC or from 12-volts on the car. Most of the time all power for the toys came from the stock 20-amp generator in the MGA. >I was at a car show today and had to give a chap a telephone number >.... I wrote the number on the scrap of paper and gave it to the chap. .... For what it's worth, I still don't carry a cell phone or an auto club card. It just wouldn't be the sporting way to travel in an MG. But I do carry pen and paper in the car (along with some other tools). I recently went slightly nuts and installed and alternator in my MGA. It has 70-amp output, because it was just lying around the shelf, and I was too cheap to buy a smaller one. Now I'm spending too much time trying to find any good use for the excess 600 watts of available electrical power. I'm thinking a second 12-volt battery might be good to power some camping equipment, lights, radio, electric stove or heater maybe? How much space does a 500-watt stereo radio and speaker set-up take? That might scare the hell out of some jack rabbits next time I'm in Baja, MX. Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude http://MGAguru.com From mgamgb at ihug.co.nz Mon Jun 18 02:14:34 2007 From: mgamgb at ihug.co.nz (mgamgb) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:14:34 +1200 Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries References: <1275.70.11.76.39.1182087626.squirrel@saturn.afmu.com> Message-ID: <000a01c7b180$b5e3e490$48c8adcb@ian> "... connected in parallel which will still give me 12V but twice the usage time or twice the cranking time...." Not necessarilary - Check the Amp hour capacity of the batteries that you have, and the ones that you intend to use. A 12V battery and a 6V battery of the same physical size will not have the same Amp hour capacity. It is probable that the 12V battery will only have approx half the capacity of the 6V one. (twice as many cells, but half the number of plates) So if you were to connect 2 x 6V in series or 2 x 12V in parallel you will have about that same total stored energy, There are advantages however in being able to operate 2 x 12V batteries independently, but you will need to look at your electrical circuits carefully. Directly connecting a fully charged battery to a fully discharged one can lead to very high currents and subsequent heating. Ian F From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 18 02:43:01 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:43:01 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Oh No! Harness burnt up! References: <46745BBF.5080601@smarc.net> Message-ID: <01a201c7b185$b139f240$0200a8c0@Three> The white/green is the accessories wire i.e. for radio etc. (the solenoid wire is white/light-green and goes to the coil +ve). On an American LE (i.e. 79-80 model) that is all it is used for (on some 70s models it fed washers, wipers and heater fan via an in-line fuse), so either whatever is connected to it has shorted out, or the wire itself has become trapped and the insulation cut through, or possibly the bullet on the end of the wire wasn't insulated (i.e. with a bullet connector) and that touched the body. It could have damaged the ignition switch as well as the browns feeding it coming up from the solenoid. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- >I started up my LE and within seconds heavy smoke erupted from under the > dash. I turned off the key, jumped out and disconnected the battery. > > Digging around, I found the white/green from the ignition switch melted, From barrie at look.ca Mon Jun 18 07:16:18 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:16:18 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.1.20070618005909.01e88710@mgaguru.com> References: <1275.70.11.76.39.1182087626.squirrel@saturn.afmu.com> <6.2.3.4.1.20070618005909.01e88710@mgaguru.com> Message-ID: <20070618132136.58F3A1879D9@autox.team.net> Barney, When I was swaning around in Malaya as a "Mercantile Assistant" in the 50's, I had a friend who had an SS100 (genuine). He fitted two 500W landing lights purloined from a crashed airplane. When someone failed to dip their lights he used a flick on/off switch resulting in a beam that almost burnt the paint off the offending car. He agreed it was probably highly dangerous but he said they always dipped their beams!!!! Trouble was it drained his battery ....so Barney, there is your excess wattage !!!! At 02:29 AM 6/18/2007, Barney Gaylord wrote: >At 09:40 AM 6/17/2007, toms_mg at tombuchanan.net wrote: >> > I travel around alot with a laptop with a cellphone hooked so >> I can stay connected to the internet. .... > >At 06:33 PM 6/17/2007 -0400, Barrie Robinson wrote: >>Without seeming to be a smart sod, why would anyone want to be >>plugged into the 'net continually? Why don't you get smart and >>organise your life...... and work !! > >Don't rag on him too hard. I took a laptop along on my two month MG >trip to Alaska ten years ago, specifically to keep in touch with >friends on the mgs e-mail list. No cell phone, but we did manage to >plug into a land line periodically. Technology being what it was in >those days (cell phone wouldn't work in Alaska anyway), we had the >laptop computer with internal battery and AC to DC power pack, an >external dial-up modem, a digital to accustical converter (to >operate from a pay phone if needed), a 4-amp-hour 12-volt battery >pack, and a DC-to-AC inverter to run the AC toys from either the car >or the battery pack. The battery pack could recharge from either AC >or from 12-volts on the car. Most of the time all power for the >toys came from the stock 20-amp generator in the MGA. > >>I was at a car show today and had to give a chap a telephone number >>.... I wrote the number on the scrap of paper and gave it to the chap. .... > >For what it's worth, I still don't carry a cell phone or an auto >club card. It just wouldn't be the sporting way to travel in an >MG. But I do carry pen and paper in the car (along with some other tools). > >I recently went slightly nuts and installed and alternator in my >MGA. It has 70-amp output, because it was just lying around the >shelf, and I was too cheap to buy a smaller one. Now I'm spending >too much time trying to find any good use for the excess 600 watts >of available electrical power. I'm thinking a second 12-volt >battery might be good to power some camping equipment, lights, >radio, electric stove or heater maybe? How much space does a >500-watt stereo radio and speaker set-up take? That might scare the >hell out of some jack rabbits next time I'm in Baja, MX. > >Barney Gaylord >1958 MGA with an attitude >http://MGAguru.com > Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson barrie at look.ca http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From jkk at adams.net Mon Jun 18 09:58:04 2007 From: jkk at adams.net (James Kleemeyer) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:58:04 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Formula 1 (No MG content) References: <567492.3334.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7FA72E07-C899-4C6C-B107-CC1FE42FA237@erickson.on.net> Message-ID: <005f01c7b1c1$74b37170$6401a8c0@DD1H1CB1> I can't speak for anyone else, but the SO and I had a great time at Indy, our first Formula 1 weekend. We got there in time for the pit walk-about on Thursday and was home late last night. We had great seats and really enjoyed the race as well as the practice and qualifying sessions. I didn't see the marshall drop his flag on the track, but I WAS pretty concerned about the flag girl who passed out on the grid :-), can't remember whose flag she was holding. I just can't get over the sound of the cars as they came out of the last corner and headed down the front straight, it was truly amazing, something I hadn't expected, and you just don't get that watching on TV! If Bernie lets us keep the race, I'm planning on making this an annual event for my wife and I. Jim K From smarc at smarc.net Mon Jun 18 10:10:33 2007 From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:10:33 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Oh No! Harness burnt up! In-Reply-To: <01a201c7b185$b139f240$0200a8c0@Three> References: <46745BBF.5080601@smarc.net> <01a201c7b185$b139f240$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <4676AE79.5080409@smarc.net> Hi Paul - You are, of course correct! I discovered that after looking at the very nice schematics at http://www.advanceautowire.com/mgb.pdf (Set your print options to tile, the tape the pages together for a nice large color schematic) I killed the ignition immediately, but once the smoke was there, it was already too late. It only took seconds... My son & I removed the dash yesterday, and it appears that the bullet connector to the radio had worked itself loose and shorted on something... It's melted right to the end of the bullet, and throughout the harness. The browns that fed it are charred, and some smaller wires burnt through. The ignition switch is also fried. The dash sub-harness appears fine. You can follow the melt line through the main wiring harness though... I thought the accessory line was fused, but either I've been DPO'ed, or I'm just wrong. Either way, I have a mess on my hands. The trick now seems to be avoiding "project creep". The repair has already expanded to cover some things I've been wanting to address, and now "might as well" since it's all apart anyway. So far this means clean and lube the wiper wheel boxes and motor, and chase down a working clock, and a speedometer that works properly. Replace all the washer tubing. A new headlight switch. And since they are out, glassbead the demister vents and respray. Of course all new bulbs upon dash reassembly/install. The item I'm really waffling on is removing the windscreen to replace the seal which has seen better days. Then of course, does it pay to reinstall a 27 year old glass that is showing it's age? And new glazing rubber and all the joys associated with that... Big problem with pulling the windscreen, is then do I pull the front fenders to address the seams by the windscreen that are showing signs of a problem beginning to form? Of course that means some painting required... And so it goes... Marc Paul Hunt wrote: > The white/green is the accessories wire i.e. for radio etc. (the > solenoid wire is white/light-green and goes to the coil +ve). On an > American LE (i.e. 79-80 model) that is all it is used for (on some 70s > models it fed washers, wipers and heater fan via an in-line fuse), so > either whatever is connected to it has shorted out, or the wire itself > has become trapped and the insulation cut through, or possibly the > bullet on the end of the wire wasn't insulated (i.e. with a bullet > connector) and that touched the body. > > It could have damaged the ignition switch as well as the browns > feeding it coming up from the solenoid. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> I started up my LE and within seconds heavy smoke erupted from under the >> dash. I turned off the key, jumped out and disconnected the battery. >> >> Digging around, I found the white/green from the ignition switch melted, From david_breneman at yahoo.com Mon Jun 18 15:40:12 2007 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <120203.92049.qm@web42105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Barrie Robinson wrote: > Without seeming to be a smart sod, why would anyone want to be > plugged into the 'net continually? Why don't you get smart and > organise your life...... and work !! Although no one relishes getting old, there's one thing that has me looking forward to retirement. The damned cell phone can stay in the car. Having to tote that ball and chain (and before it, a pager) everywhere I go as a requirement of my job is one thing I won't miss in the least. David Breneman david_breneman at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather From Rabeys at aol.com Mon Jun 18 18:27:08 2007 From: Rabeys at aol.com (Rabeys at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:27:08 EDT Subject: [Mgs] using a volt meter/72 Midge Message-ID: ok, i broke down and bought a volt meter to tackle this wiring. i always avoided it because i consider myself an amateur and it seemed so intimidating. i printed out the tips Paul sent on finding the fault for the turn signal problem. so now i need a crash course on using the volt meter. i read the instructions but i'm kind of a hands on learner. i got one of those $20 jobs at Schucks. if its not too complicated to email tips on using this i would greatly appreciate it. i see all the warnings about eye protection and things blowing up and what not that i'm a little fearful of it! i have the pages Paul sent me on what should be reading as 12V on what wires...i just need to know where to set the dial and put the red and black probes. i'm guessing that i set the device to the Bat Load setting for 12V and then probably ground the black wire on something metal and touch the red probe to whatever i'm testing...am i close? steph ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From TMcnam4510 at aol.com Mon Jun 18 18:45:09 2007 From: TMcnam4510 at aol.com (TMcnam4510 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:45:09 EDT Subject: [Mgs] using a volt meter/72 Midge Message-ID: Hey Steph, don't be afraid. It is easy to use a volt meter. The setting on the knob will indicate the scale of the reading. At this point, you are able to ignore all of the amp settings. A volt is the amount of electrical "pressure". Think of a hydraulic circuit, PSI is a measure of hydraulic pressure, PSI = pounds per square inch, volts = electrical pressure. Our cars have 12 Volts of electrical pressure from the battery. IN order to complete a circuit and have something happen, (i.e. a lamp light), the electric circuit must go from the battery to the earthing point, positive (+) to negative (-). If a circuit is "grounded" before the circuit is completed, the action will not happen. The ohm scale on your meter tells the amount of resistance to circuit flow, measured in ohms. The closer you get to ground/earth/negative the lower the ohm reading. Does this help? Let me know and perhaps we can talk on the phone. Electronics is my game. Regards, Tom ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From chillmog at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 18 20:05:57 2007 From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:05:57 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46773A05.10301@sbcglobal.net> My only experience with running 2 12-volt batteries in parallel is with old Porsche 911s. In the early 70s Porsche stuck twin batteries (2 12 volts in parallel) as far forward as possible to improve weight distribution. They were a constant problem. Unless they were perfectly matched, the battery with the least internal resistance would get charged and the other wouldn't. So while simply installing 2 batteries in parallel might not be a good idea, there are undoubtedly ways to do it today but they will be a little more involved than running an second set of battery cables. Charles Hill From WJHS1960 at comcast.net Mon Jun 18 21:27:19 2007 From: WJHS1960 at comcast.net (WJHS1960) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:27:19 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries References: <46773A05.10301@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <01f301c7b221$be80b780$6501a8c0@actualshop> <> Yep, Charles!! That is why I suggest a Batt. Switch and isolater. Works like a charm!! From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jun 19 02:05:49 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:05:49 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Oh No! Harness burnt up! References: <46745BBF.5080601@smarc.net> <01a201c7b185$b139f240$0200a8c0@Three> <4676AE79.5080409@smarc.net> Message-ID: <010801c7b249$a43238e0$0200a8c0@Three> It doesn't take long (to burn up a harness). Sadly they only fitted an in-line fuse when it fed the washers, wipers and heater fan, but even then it was only at the end of that wire and not at the switch. Personally I'd just do what can be done after removing the bits that have to be moved to fix the harness, like the dash and the stuff behind it. Leave everything else for another day, unless you were imminently planning to deal with them anyway. Cheers, Paul. ----- Original Message ----- > I thought the accessory line was fused, but either I've been DPO'ed, or > I'm just wrong. Either way, I have a mess on my hands. The trick now seems > to be avoiding "project creep". From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jun 19 02:19:21 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:19:21 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Two 12 volt batteries References: <46773A05.10301@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <015601c7b24b$c5d488c0$0200a8c0@Three> I can't see that happening unless one of the batteries was nearly short or the system was barely charging. At anything over 12.8v (normal charging voltage is 14.5v) both batteries will be charging. The problem occurs while parked - if one battery is even slightly leaky it will drain both itself and the good battery connected to it. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > ... Unless they were perfectly > matched, the battery with the least internal resistance would get > charged and the other wouldn't. From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Tue Jun 19 09:18:56 2007 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:18:56 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] carb leak Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025FC12920@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> I took my 67BGt for a spin the other day and ended up sniffing gas fumes again. The top of the front float cover was wet with fuel. This has been an ongoing problem for a while now and I haven't been able to fix it yet. I have new fuel line hoses which show no leaks. I have replaced the needle/valve seat a couple of times. The fuel pump does shut off after the bowl fills. Fuel level in the bowl is correct. It only seems to leak when I am driving, not when its idling. The overflow is connected to what is probably the original design where the overflow tube is connected to another steel tube by a small rubber hose, set to vent fuel to the ground and it remains dry. My only guess right now is that the lid itself has a small leak, maybe in the input or output connections in the lid. Has anyone seen or heard of such a possibility since I am only making an educated guess? And does anyone have a used lid they can sell me? It is an earlier SU (AUD 100? something, not sure exact number since car is not here at work). It appears to be a flat lid whereas the later HS4 style from my 71BGT (now on my 72B) appears to have an indented lid, which allows it to hold slightly more fuel on the cover if it was to leak. It looks like Moss does sell the whole lid with float for about $50 USD but I suspect it is of the newer design and my 67BGT is still virtually original. David Councill 67 BGT 72 B From ejrussell at mebtel.net Tue Jun 19 14:54:35 2007 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:54:35 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 1, Issue 18 References: Message-ID: <014101c7b2b4$175ff310$0202a8c0@ejrussell> I heard (recently, here on the MG list I think) of a lid cracking. I think it was an H-4 carb on an MGA Perhaps due to over-tightening? Have you examined the lid carefully for a crack? I've seen used carbs sell for a lot less (on eBay) than what you quoted for a new lid. Would that be a viable option? Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:18:56 -0600 > From: "Councill, David" > Subject: [Mgs] carb leak > My only guess right now is that the > lid itself has a small leak, maybe in the input or output > connections in > the lid. Has anyone seen or heard of such a possibility since I am > only > making an educated guess? > > David Councill > 67 BGT > 72 B From rolindsay at yahoo.com Tue Jun 19 14:40:16 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] carb leak In-Reply-To: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025FC12920@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <485269.24377.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm at work and my car's at home BUT, can you swap float bowl covers (and valves,etc) and see if the problem moves with the part? rick --- "Councill, David" wrote: > I took my 67BGt for a spin the other day and ended > up sniffing gas fumes > again. The top of the front float cover was wet with > fuel. This has been > an ongoing problem for a while now and I haven't > been able to fix it > yet. I have new fuel line hoses which show no leaks. > I have replaced the > needle/valve seat a couple of times. The fuel pump > does shut off after > the bowl fills. Fuel level in the bowl is correct. > It only seems to leak > when I am driving, not when its idling. The overflow > is connected to > what is probably the original design where the > overflow tube is > connected to another steel tube by a small rubber > hose, set to vent fuel > to the ground and it remains dry. My only guess > right now is that the > lid itself has a small leak, maybe in the input or > output connections in > the lid. Has anyone seen or heard of such a > possibility since I am only > making an educated guess? And does anyone have a > used lid they can sell > me? It is an earlier SU (AUD 100? something, not > sure exact number since > car is not here at work). It appears to be a flat > lid whereas the later > HS4 style from my 71BGT (now on my 72B) appears to > have an indented lid, > which allows it to hold slightly more fuel on the > cover if it was to > leak. It looks like Moss does sell the whole lid > with float for about > $50 USD but I suspect it is of the newer design and > my 67BGT is still > virtually original. > > David Councill > 67 BGT > 72 B From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Tue Jun 19 15:29:59 2007 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:29:59 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] carb leak In-Reply-To: <485269.24377.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025FC12920@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> <485269.24377.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025FC12930@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> I would have to check for sure. On my 71 carbs, they are not the same and not interchangeable without work rerouting the main fuel line. One lid has three ports (inlet, outlet to other carb, overflow) and the other has just inlet/overflow. I was hoping maybe someone had HS4 parts they would sell. I know I got a carb dashpot and piston from a lister a few years back. The possible bad lid is the two port lid. I cannot see any discernable cracks and suspect the leak might be in the casting with the inlet or overflow brass tubing connection to the lid but that's just a guess. David -----Original Message----- From: Rick Lindsay [mailto:rolindsay at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 2:40 PM To: Councill, David; mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] carb leak I'm at work and my car's at home BUT, can you swap float bowl covers (and valves,etc) and see if the problem moves with the part? rick From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Tue Jun 19 16:43:28 2007 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:43:28 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] carb leak In-Reply-To: <730311.8452.qm@web82309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025FC12930@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> <730311.8452.qm@web82309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025FC12932@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Why didn't I think about that? I made a webpage several years ago (as in 1999 or 2000) to show someone how the fuel lines were routed. I know it was about then because I replaced the air filters with the standard ones about then: http://cu.imt.net/~dcouncil/mg/su_setup.html A bit grainy due to primitive technology. But I didn't need to have the cars nearby to figure out the layout. David -----Original Message----- From: Rick Lindsay [mailto:rolindsay at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:44 PM To: Councill, David Subject: RE: [Mgs] carb leak Fair enough. My car uses a brass 'T' fitting to split the fuel line at the front carb. http://www.aubard.us/MGB/Carbs_017.jpg rick --- "Councill, David" wrote: > I would have to check for sure. On my 71 carbs, they > are not the same > and not interchangeable without work rerouting the > main fuel line. One > lid has three ports (inlet, outlet to other carb, > overflow) and the > other has just inlet/overflow. I was hoping maybe > someone had HS4 parts > they would sell. I know I got a carb dashpot and > piston from a lister a > few years back. > > The possible bad lid is the two port lid. I cannot > see any discernable > cracks and suspect the leak might be in the casting > with the inlet or > overflow brass tubing connection to the lid but > that's just a guess. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Lindsay [mailto:rolindsay at yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 2:40 PM > To: Councill, David; mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgs] carb leak > > I'm at work and my car's at home BUT, can you swap > float bowl covers (and valves,etc) and see if the > problem moves with the part? > > rick From RonFineEsq at earthlink.net Tue Jun 19 21:45:11 2007 From: RonFineEsq at earthlink.net (Ron Fine) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:45:11 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Engine Rebuild Video or books Message-ID: <00d001c7b2ed$67d4c8a0$6501a8c0@XPS400> I am about to pull the engine and transmission on my '66 MGB to rebuild as necessary. I noticed that there are some engine rebuild videos advertised on Ebay and Moss Motors. Has anyone seen these and are they useful? I do have some engine rebuilding experience (Austin Healey 3000) but I wouldn't mind looking at some additional MGB stuff before starting. I have the big green factory manual and Haynes books. Are there any other resources I might look at? Thanks for any help or suggestions. Ron Fine 66 MGB 61 BN7 From r.gosling at penspen.com Wed Jun 20 02:05:18 2007 From: r.gosling at penspen.com (Gosling, Richard) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:05:18 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Engine Rebuild Video or books Message-ID: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF618@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> There's an article (might be the first of a short series) on rebuilding MGB engines in this months MG Enthusiast magazine. Haven't got around to reading it yet, so I don't know if it's any good... Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) ________________________________________________________________________ This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received it by mistake please notify the sender by return E-mail and delete this message from your system. Any unauthorised use or dissemination of this message in whole or in part is strictly prohibited. Please note that E-mails are susceptible to change. The Penspen Group shall not be liable for the improper or incomplete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt or damage to your system. The Penspen Group does not guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained or that this communication is free of viruses, interceptions or interference. The following UK companies within the Penspen Group and any electronic communication sent on behalf of any of them, are subject to the provisions of the UK Companies Act 1985; PENSPEN HOLDINGS LIMITED (Company Number : 980600) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) PENSPEN LIMITED (Company Number: 584446) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) (Unipen, Penspen Integrity and Andrew Palmer & Associates are operating divisions of Penspen Limited and Spencer & Partners and Pencol are trade names of Penspen Limited) LIBRA TECHNICAL SERVICES LIMITED (Company Number: 1874430) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) MANCHESTER JETLINE LIMITED (Company Number: 2392093) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 537 8635 08) From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Jun 20 02:34:25 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:34:25 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] carb leak References: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025FC12920@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Message-ID: <00f801c7b316$53c8f600$0200a8c0@Three> The fuel level could be too high in one float chamber, and the gasket defective, such that fuel is splashing up and leaking out when in motion. That would explain why the fuel pump stops. But OTOH only clicks closer than 30 secs apart indicate a problem (either with the float valve or pump, or possibly in your case a cracked float chamber lid or delivery pipe) so maybe you need to wait longer to see if any fuel appears. Is the vent pipe clear? If it were blocked and the valve leaking then it may well leak out of the top, again if the gasket were faulty. If the vent is blocked and no other path then the float wouldn't rise and shut off the fuel, which would be pump straight up the jet and into the inlet manifold, which would be accompanied by frequent clicking. Does it ever show a leak with your head under the bonnet revving the engine? If not then it would seem like splashing when in motion is the only way it could happen, since any leak in delivery should show under virtually any conditions when the ignition is on. But then again, maybe when the engine gets hot a crack in the lid opens up, but that should *continue* to leak if you keep the engine running once fuel has appeared on the lid. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- >I took my 67BGt for a spin the other day and ended up sniffing gas fumes > again. The top of the front float cover was wet with fuel. From qualitas.jack at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 05:51:50 2007 From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:51:50 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. Message-ID: <48720d20706200451i7e6fd0f4gc93a77c15967d686@mail.gmail.com> I just got my BGT back after some restoration work. The engin is bored .40 over, has larger carbs, a shaved flywheel, and the head is ported and polished. It has great torque. When I traveled in my MGC, I would cruse at 3000 rpm, which gave me a speed of just over 70 MPH. Taking into account both the handling and the engine stress, I was just wondering what you folks would consider a safe cruising speed for the BGT. Jack From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Jun 20 06:20:36 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:20:36 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. References: <48720d20706200451i7e6fd0f4gc93a77c15967d686@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <018701c7b335$df3eec70$0200a8c0@Three> As far as the engine goes I regularly cruise my standard engine at 80, and have often been higher than that. If your engine has been balanced I'd expect to be able to cruise higher than that with no problems, the problem is that once an engine has been modified things do change, not always for the better. I regularly read of fears that these cars are going to break, they are stronger than many think. As for handling it all depends on the road and traffic conditions at the time, and that can only be your call. On a motorway the handling far outdoes the performance, unless you have to take violent avoiding action when faced with an unexpected incident. A narrow, twisty lane with traffic travelling in both directions is a different issue. That's what driving is about - making value judgements taking into account all the variables at the time, not simply pointing it and being oblivious as to what is going on around you (as all too many people do these days). PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Taking into account both the handling and the engine stress, I was just > wondering what you folks would consider a safe cruising speed for the BGT. From rolindsay at yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 06:33:05 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 05:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Engine Rebuild Video or books In-Reply-To: <00d001c7b2ed$67d4c8a0$6501a8c0@XPS400> Message-ID: <931980.38613.qm@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Time to say it again; Colin Campbell's great book from the '60s, "The Sports Car Engine: Its Tuning and Modification" is the best understand-before-you-try-it book I have ever read. The link below is an example for reference but this particular offering is WAY over priced. I bought two copies recently for under $20 each. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000J3QDAO/ref=sr_1_olp_3/102-6306932-1762542?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182342604&sr=1-3 rick --- Ron Fine wrote: > I am about to pull the engine and transmission on my > '66 MGB to rebuild as > necessary. I noticed that there are some engine > rebuild videos advertised on > Ebay and Moss Motors. Has anyone seen these and are > they useful? I do have > some engine rebuilding experience (Austin Healey > 3000) but I wouldn't mind > looking at some additional MGB stuff before > starting. I have the big green > factory manual and Haynes books. Are there any > other resources I might look > at? > Thanks for any help or suggestions. > Ron Fine > 66 MGB > 61 BN7 From rolindsay at yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 06:41:22 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 05:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. In-Reply-To: <018701c7b335$df3eec70$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <303956.27492.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Paul writes: > That's what driving is about - making value > judgements taking into account all the variables > at the time, not simply pointing it and being > oblivious as to what is going on around you (as all > too many people do these days). > > PaulH. I like this phrase. Fernando Alonzo's driving style in F1 is described as "point and squirt". Kinda goes with Paul's comment. rick - F1 marshal - Lindsay '79 308GTB '70 MGB From mgbob at juno.com Wed Jun 20 07:28:58 2007 From: mgbob at juno.com (Bob Howard) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:28:58 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. Message-ID: <20070620.093412.3108.0.MGBOB@juno.com> Jack, The MGB travels about 18 MPH / 1000 rpm in 4th speed, and 22 MPH/ 1000 rpm in 4th overdrive. 3500 rpm in OD will be 77 mph. Once upon a time a piston speed of 2500 ft / min was considered max safe speed for long distances. I don't know if that is still considered valid, but 2500 ft/min is about 4300 rpm. The engine won't break at that speed; MG red-lined at 5500 or so. It's something of a question of the rate of wear one is willing to accept. Kept to 3500 rpm most times, you can probably expect about 100,000 miles before cylinder wear would be an issue of concern, and that's a lot of driving miles for most of us. I run the car pretty much with the flow of traffic. Here in CT, that is 65-70 most weekdays, and 70+ when the traffic is heavier as on weekends and holidays. My concern is of being run over from behind more than damage to the engine at 75 mph. Bob On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:51:50 -0500 "Jack Feldman" writes: > I just got my BGT back after some restoration work. The engin is > bored .40 > over, has larger carbs, a shaved flywheel, and the head is ported > and > polished. It has great torque. > > When I traveled in my MGC, I would cruse at 3000 rpm, which gave me > a speed > of just over 70 MPH. > > Taking into account both the handling and the engine stress, I was > just > wondering what you folks would consider a safe cruising speed for > the BGT. > > Jack From mgbob at juno.com Wed Jun 20 07:33:34 2007 From: mgbob at juno.com (Bob Howard) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:33:34 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Engine Rebuild Video or books Message-ID: <20070620.093412.3108.1.MGBOB@juno.com> Hi Ron, Rich suggested Colin Cambell's book. I've not seen that one. For this winter's rebuild of my MGB engine, I followed Peter Burgess' book, How to Power Tune MGB Engines. I found it easy to follow and well illustrated. His discussion of camshafts seemed particularly useful. The engine runs great and offers much more torque in the 2000-3500 rpm range. It also seems to burn a bit less fuel, though that is subject to further measurement. Bob On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:45:11 -0700 "Ron Fine" writes: > I am about to pull the engine and transmission on my '66 MGB to > rebuild as necessary. I noticed that there are some engine rebuild videos > advertised on Ebay and Moss Motors. Has anyone seen these and are they useful? I > do have some engine rebuilding experience (Austin Healey 3000) but I > wouldn't mind looking at some additional MGB stuff before starting. I have the > big green factory manual and Haynes books. Are there any other resources I > might look at? > Thanks for any help or suggestions. > Ron Fine > 66 MGB > 61 BN7 From WSpohn4 at aol.com Wed Jun 20 07:37:38 2007 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:37:38 EDT Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. Message-ID: In a message dated 20/06/2007 4:52:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, qualitas.jack at gmail.com writes: Taking into account both the handling and the engine stress, I was just wondering what you folks would consider a safe cruising speed for the BGT. ____________________________________ I am comfortable cruising the 4 cylinder at up to around 4500 - after that it gets a bit buzzy. BTW, I think my MGC is doing more than 70 MPH @ 3000 RPM - you must have one of the lower axle ratios? Bill S. From mark.jones at exxonmobil.com Wed Jun 20 08:44:07 2007 From: mark.jones at exxonmobil.com (mark.jones at exxonmobil.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:44:07 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Engine Rebuild Video or books Message-ID: Ron, Dr Doolin's MGB engine rebuild video (available from Moss) is very good and the booklet that comes with it is even better than the video IMHO. Last year I rebuilt the engine in my 73 MGBGT and found the video to be of help in understanding the rebuild process. But it was the booklet, that I made a copy of, that was out there in the garage with me getting greasy and having check marks put on it as I finished each step. I have several thousand miles on the engine now and it is still running well (knock on wood), which I would attest to Dr Doolin's video and booklet and not scrimping on the machine shop work. Mark 73 MGBGT 80 Spitfire From: "Ron Fine" Subject: [Mgs] Engine Rebuild Video or books To: "MG List" Message-ID: <00d001c7b2ed$67d4c8a0$6501a8c0 at XPS400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am about to pull the engine and transmission on my '66 MGB to rebuild as necessary. I noticed that there are some engine rebuild videos advertised on Ebay and Moss Motors. Has anyone seen these and are they useful? I do have some engine rebuilding experience (Austin Healey 3000) but I wouldn't mind looking at some additional MGB stuff before starting. I have the big green factory manual and Haynes books. Are there any other resources I might look at? Thanks for any help or suggestions. Ron Fine 66 MGB 61 BN7 From barrie at look.ca Wed Jun 20 08:43:55 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:43:55 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. In-Reply-To: <48720d20706200451i7e6fd0f4gc93a77c15967d686@mail.gmail.com > References: <48720d20706200451i7e6fd0f4gc93a77c15967d686@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070620155803.8886E187B3E@autox.team.net> ......heading into the wind, or a following one? Sorry, I'm just being facetious. I drove a GT for years but found it lacking when trying to overtake lorries (trucks!). So I went the V8 route. At 07:51 AM 6/20/2007, Jack Feldman wrote: >I just got my BGT back after some restoration work. The engin is bored .40 >over, has larger carbs, a shaved flywheel, and the head is ported and >polished. It has great torque. > >When I traveled in my MGC, I would cruse at 3000 rpm, which gave me a speed >of just over 70 MPH. > >Taking into account both the handling and the engine stress, I was just >wondering what you folks would consider a safe cruising speed for the BGT. > >Jack >_______________________________________________ >barrie at look.ca > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson barrie at look.ca http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From doddk at mossmotors.com Wed Jun 20 10:08:03 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:08:03 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Engine Rebuild Video or books In-Reply-To: <00d001c7b2ed$67d4c8a0$6501a8c0@XPS400> Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AEF31@kb1.mossmotors.com> Ron: Mark pretty much took the words out of my mouth. I've built a number of B engines, but they are usually at least a year apart and I forget most of what I learnt the last time. The Doolin video is a great refresher for me and I got a lot out of it. The step by step booklet, as Mark noted is a must have on the bench. I also agree that if you want to learn more about engine performance, the Peter Burgess book is excellent. It blows a lot of old "lore" out of the water and gives excellent procedures for such things as cam timing and balancing. It doesn't cover the engine rebuild, but does a great job of what to pay attention to. The Doolin video covers the greasy, nasty bits better than any workshop manual. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Ron Fine > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:45 PM > To: MG List > Subject: [Mgs] Engine Rebuild Video or books > > I am about to pull the engine and transmission on my '66 MGB to rebuild as > necessary. I noticed that there are some engine rebuild videos advertised > on > Ebay and Moss Motors. Has anyone seen these and are they useful? I do > have > some engine rebuilding experience (Austin Healey 3000) but I wouldn't mind > looking at some additional MGB stuff before starting. I have the big > green > factory manual and Haynes books. Are there any other resources I might > look > at? > Thanks for any help or suggestions. > Ron Fine > 66 MGB > 61 BN7 From doddk at mossmotors.com Wed Jun 20 10:48:17 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:48:17 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. In-Reply-To: <48720d20706200451i7e6fd0f4gc93a77c15967d686@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AEF48@kb1.mossmotors.com> Jack: This is an interesting point. The MGB motor will cruise all day long at 4500 rpm without any problems if tuned correctly. The problem is that without tuning the car on a dyno or rolling road, it is unlikely that the tuning is going to be accurate at that speed. On a typical set of older SU carbs and distributor, the tuning at idle can be set but linkage adjustment and distributor wear can cause a lot of roughness at higher speed. As an example, I've driven two MGBs that were professionally tuned. Both ran well around town with lots of power. On the freeway, they both felt rough above 3500 rpm and the fastest comfortable cruising speed was 65 mph. Getting technical, some quick checks with a timing light showed that both original distributors were giving far too much advance, which accounted for some of the roughness. New distributors helped dramatically. The interesting thing is that both cars were subsequently fitted with superchargers. At cruise, all the supercharger does is provide a well mixed fuel mixture to all cylinders. All of the high speed roughness smoothed out and both cars felt completely smooth at high speed allowing comfortable cruising in the 4500-5000 rpm range. No more thrashing and the engines acted more like electric motors. The experience showed that it is very important to tune the car accurately for the anticipated rev range. That the MGB can be as smooth as a modern FI car if care is taken to ensure that all the systems are working optimally not only at idle, but at anticipated cruising speed too. Sorry for the long answer, but it was an interesting experience that showed how much potential these cars really have if tuned correctly. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Jack Feldman > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 4:52 AM > To: A Leveque; mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. > > I just got my BGT back after some restoration work. The engin is bored .40 > over, has larger carbs, a shaved flywheel, and the head is ported and > polished. It has great torque. > > When I traveled in my MGC, I would cruse at 3000 rpm, which gave me a > speed > of just over 70 MPH. > > Taking into account both the handling and the engine stress, I was just > wondering what you folks would consider a safe cruising speed for the BGT. > > Jack From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 20 10:52:43 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:52:43 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. In-Reply-To: <018701c7b335$df3eec70$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: I concur about them being strong. I've been flogging mine for years, and last fall in the California Melee I drove the heck out of it, thru mountains, on freeways, in temps up into the 90s, all with it in an indifferent state of tune due to insufficient prep time. And that's with 60-70K miles on the engine. Or, another example: before I had installed the overdrive, I did a round trip to Yosemite in September... 95 degress in the central valley, maintaining 85 mph on the freeway. Can't manage that now despite the OD because the wheels need truing -- it would shake my ears off. I would surmise the noise and vibration (and wind blast, in a roadster) would cap your speed before you got to the point of stressing the engine. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/20/07 5:20 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > As far as the engine goes I regularly cruise my standard engine at 80, and > have often been higher than that. If your engine has been balanced I'd > expect to be able to cruise higher than that with no problems, the problem > is that once an engine has been modified things do change, not always for > the better. I regularly read of fears that these cars are going to break, > they are stronger than many think. > > As for handling it all depends on the road and traffic conditions at the > time, and that can only be your call. On a motorway the handling far > outdoes the performance, unless you have to take violent avoiding action > when faced with an unexpected incident. A narrow, twisty lane with traffic > travelling in both directions is a different issue. That's what driving is > about - making value judgements taking into account all the variables at the > time, not simply pointing it and being oblivious as to what is going on > around you (as all too many people do these days). > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Taking into account both the handling and the engine stress, I was just >> wondering what you folks would consider a safe cruising speed for the BGT. From rolindsay at yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 13:08:24 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Engine Rebuild Video or books In-Reply-To: <20070620.093412.3108.1.MGBOB@juno.com> Message-ID: <232311.78889.qm@web82301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Colin's book has been out of print for 30+ years but is still available in the used book market. rick --- Bob Howard wrote: > Hi Ron, > Rich suggested Colin Cambell's book. I've not > seen that one. > For this winter's rebuild of my MGB engine, I > followed Peter Burgess' > book, How to Power Tune MGB Engines. I found it > easy to follow and well > illustrated. His discussion of camshafts seemed > particularly useful. The > engine runs great and offers much more torque in the > 2000-3500 rpm range. > It also seems to burn a bit less fuel, though that > is subject to further > measurement. > Bob > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:45:11 -0700 "Ron Fine" > > writes: > > I am about to pull the engine and transmission on > my '66 MGB to > > rebuild as necessary. I noticed that there are > some engine rebuild > videos > > advertised on Ebay and Moss Motors. Has anyone > seen these and are they > useful? I > > do have some engine rebuilding experience (Austin > Healey 3000) but I > > wouldn't mind looking at some additional MGB stuff > before starting. I > have the > > big green factory manual and Haynes books. Are > there any other > resources I > > might look at? > > Thanks for any help or suggestions. > > Ron Fine > > 66 MGB > > 61 BN7 > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From rolindsay at yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 15:39:52 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 14:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Back to MG work Message-ID: <195100.39813.qm@web82301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Friends, The US F1 Grand Prix is over and the honey-do list is chewed down a bit - or at least the high priority items are addressed - so it is about time to get back to the MG. I need to get my tonneaux cover repaired. The zipper is trashed but the rest of the cover is like new. I hope to take it to an auto upholstery shop this weekend for a zipper-ectomy and transplant. I can then cover my interior easily to keep garage dust from soiling my hard refinishing work. Of course, I could just put the top up but that too is an area needing maintenance. Tonight I hope to spend a few minutes mending a puncture wound in the driver's seat. You can just see the problem in this picture: http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0637.JPG . I'll use Leatherique's CrackFiller with a little heavy canvas placed under the wound. That should make short work of this little problem. Otherwise, its time to clean up the work area. Things have gone a mess after a frantic spell of work last week. Happy Wednesday! rick From mmilkevitch at yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 19:47:42 2007 From: mmilkevitch at yahoo.com (Matthew Milkevitch) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue Message-ID: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Fellow Listers; I have a cooling issue with my '74 MGB-GT, and I was wondering if anyone had any input as to the cause. The basic problem is this: The past couple of days have been fairly hot here in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with a 165 deg F thermostat, the car seems to run a little hot (in my opinion). The needle on the temp gauge is a little above the "N." When I sit in traffic, the temp goes up some more, maybe 1/2 way between "N" and "H." It comes down a little when I get going. Recently, I drained the radiator, had it cleaned out and checked....and I re-installed it with fresh hoses (one was leaking some) and a new thermostat. Today, it was in the low 80's in Phila...very dry and nice. I ran the car and it pretty much did the same thing! Any insights? I have yet to check the water pump. The temp sender could also be suspect. Thanks for all your help, Matt Milkevitch '74 MGB-GT Willow Grove, PA Today's weather in Philadelphia was in the low 80's with low humidity (quite a nice day). From ptrmgb at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 20:37:50 2007 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:37:50 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] URL: "Austin Healey | Auto Express News | News | Auto Express" Message-ID: More news from Nanjing http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/209133/ austin_healey.htmlAuto Express understands that three cars are being evaluated. First is a small front-wh Paul Root ptrmgb at gmail.com 77 MGB 99 OBS From nory1 at adelphia.net Wed Jun 20 20:56:28 2007 From: nory1 at adelphia.net (Nory) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:56:28 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Engine Rebuild Video or books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks! I just found it at an online used book seller at a pretty good price! > Time to say it again; Colin Campbell's great book from > the '60s, "The Sports Car Engine: Its Tuning and > Modification" is the best understand-before-you-try-it > book I have ever read. The link below is an example > for reference but this particular offering is WAY over > priced. I bought two copies recently for under $20 > each. > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000J3QDAO/ > ref=sr_1_olp_3/102-6306932-1762542? > ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182342604&sr=1-3 > > rick From awhitema at panix.com Wed Jun 20 20:58:52 2007 From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:58:52 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <62DBD752-0F6D-46D0-82C6-C75FCB4EFCC2@panix.com> On Jun 20, 2007, at 6:47 PM, Matthew Milkevitch wrote: > I have a cooling issue with my '74 MGB-GT, and I was wondering if > anyone had any input as to the cause. Step 1 is to determine the actual temperature of your head and radiator. Go buy an infrared thermometer from NAPA or Radio Shack. Get the car to temp, then pull over and point at the thermostat housing, intake of the rad, and exit of the rad. The radiator temp should be at or above the thermostat temp. > The basic problem is this: The past couple of days have been > fairly hot here in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with a 165 deg F > thermostat, the car seems to run a little hot (in my opinion). The > needle on the temp gauge is a little above the "N." When I sit in > traffic, the temp goes up some more, maybe 1/2 way between "N" and > "H." It comes down a little when I get going.= That's perfectly normal. When my car was having severe heat issues, "half way between N and H" was about 210 degrees, which is hot, but not too hot. Full H was about 240, which was a problem. > Today, it was in the low 80's in Phila...very dry and nice. I > ran the car and it pretty much did the same thing! Check your temps first. Don't even worry unless you are above the boiling point of water. If your rad has warm water in it, the thermostat is working. In my case, changing thermostats, changing water pumps, re-coring the radiator, adding an oil cooler, and all sorts of things didn't help. If the temp was above 80, I'd routinely be running temperatures in excess of 230 degrees at the thermostat elbow. The problem went away a few years ago when the head was cleaned in the caustic tank as a result of a valve job (I had a valve stick in a 15 degree winter day). I now run a 190 degree stat year round, which works in -5 winter days and 90 summer days. I still see the gauge spike to the 210 point, but no higher. If your temps are out of whack and nothing else fixes it, clean out the water passages in your head and block (hah!). -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet? From james.nazarian at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 22:36:07 2007 From: james.nazarian at gmail.com (James Nazarian) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:36:07 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Performance oil systems Message-ID: <004401c7b3bd$b0c7bf60$6400a8c0@theendindeed> I tried this on the V8 list a couple of weeks ago but it didn't go anywhere useful so I'd like to ask this list for some help. My BGT V8 is mostly an autocross car. Unfortunately, during autocross, I'm uncovering the oil pickup and starving the engine for oil. I'm trying to find information about wet sump oil systems for high performance engines. I'm not opposed to building an oil pan, I just want to know what to build. I guessed once and that was not effective. Does anyone have any advice, or can they point me to information that might be helpful? I don't have the time/money/space in car to design a dry sump system, and I'm considering an accusump, but I'd like to solve the root cause first. thanks, James From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jun 21 01:48:27 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:48:27 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Performance oil systems References: <004401c7b3bd$b0c7bf60$6400a8c0@theendindeed> Message-ID: <00b701c7b3d9$55285450$0200a8c0@Three> The root cause is using the engine outside the parameters the designers catered for. Is it 'just' a case of baffling the sump to create a number of chambers, with only small holes between them to increase the time it takes for all the oil to end up at one end (or side) of the pan under high G forces? This Google search lists lots of sites that discuss this, the 3rd one down being for a Rover V8. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=baffled+sump&btnG=Google+Search&meta= PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > ... My BGT V8 is mostly an > autocross car. Unfortunately, during autocross, I'm uncovering the oil > pickup and starving the engine for oil. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jun 21 02:06:47 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:06:47 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. References: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AEF48@kb1.mossmotors.com> Message-ID: <00d001c7b3db$6f258c90$0200a8c0@Three> The comment about the carbs and getting the *ideal* curve (as opposed to the design curve) on a rolling road is perfectly correct, but you can diagnose a faulty curve i.e. too aggressive due to tired advance springs with nothing more than a timing light, preferable an adjustable one where you can turn a dial until the flashes are on TDC then read off the real advance from the dial. With a standard engine and carbs in good condition I'd expect mixture to be pretty much as it should be, it is timing which is more likely to go off. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > The problem is that without tuning the car on a dyno or rolling road, it > is unlikely that the tuning is going to be accurate at that speed. ... > Getting technical, some quick checks with a timing light showed that > both original distributors were giving far too much advance. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jun 21 01:57:43 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:57:43 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue References: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00ce01c7b3db$6eea0a30$0200a8c0@Three> You say 74, I presume this is the chrome bumper model with mechanical cooling fan and not the 74.5 model with electric. Your running temps seem normal to me given the ambient of low 80s, and that would indicate the gauge is accurate. However I'd have said that going up to mid-way between N and H when you are idling *is* a little high, unless it is for several minutes at a time with a slight following wind (the difference between a following and head wind can be quite significant). OTOH if you are stopped in traffic your radiator will be 'breathing' all the heated air being pumped out of the radiators of the cars around you, which will also cause your gauge to go up. Another factor is temperature of the air near the road surface i.e. heated by the effect of sun on tarmac, this can be 20 degrees higher than air temperature, again causing a rise in the gauge. What does it do if left idling on, say, grass with no other traffic around and in a slight cross or head wind? If that is only slightly higher than your normal running temps then I'd say you had nothing to worry about. At the end of the day, cars with electric fans have the thermo switch calibrated to only cut in about mid-way between N and H, and the gauge should be able to go up nearly to the H without any problems. If it isn't steaming or losing coolant, it isn't overheating. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > The basic problem is this: The past couple of days have been fairly hot > here in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with a 165 deg F thermostat, the car > seems to run a little hot (in my opinion). The needle on the temp gauge > is a little above the "N." When I sit in traffic, the temp goes up some > more, maybe 1/2 way between "N" and "H." It comes down a little when I > get going. From blair at ifd.mv.com Thu Jun 21 04:21:36 2007 From: blair at ifd.mv.com (Blair J. Weiss) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 06:21:36 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Tachometer maxes out @ 2500 rpm References: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <00ce01c7b3db$6eea0a30$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <001b01c7b3ed$f3547cd0$d6637dc7@Terrafirma> I am pretty sure I have seen this question before, but because of the new mailserver, I cannot search the archives past june of this year... Basically, the subject says it all.. the car will idle @ 800 rpm and the tach will display 800 rpm... I bring up the rpms using the accelerator pedel and the tach will follow the engine speed untill it reaches @ 2500 rpm, then the tach freezes and the motor will increase in speed. When the engine rpms come down below 2500, the tach starts working again. I am so sure I have seen this question... Thanks Blair 78 B 80 B 53 TD From paul at ece.rochester.edu Thu Jun 21 05:41:39 2007 From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:41:39 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Matt, Hello, I have the same car 74 Bgt that I have owned since new. I live in Rochester NY and any needle on the gauge runs from one side of the N to the other. In trafficsittinf it does go up about 1/2 way to the H , but comes drops when moving again. I have had no problems with this , and run a 185 thermostat. paul >Fellow Listers; > > I have a cooling issue with my '74 MGB-GT, and I was wondering if >anyone had any input as to the cause. > > The basic problem is this: The past couple of days have been >fairly hot here in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with a 165 deg F >thermostat, the car seems to run a little hot (in my opinion). The >needle on the temp gauge is a little above the "N." When I sit in >traffic, the temp goes up some more, maybe 1/2 way between "N" and >"H." It comes down a little when I get going. > > Recently, I drained the radiator, had it cleaned out and >checked....and I re-installed it with fresh hoses (one was leaking >some) and a new thermostat. > > Today, it was in the low 80's in Phila...very dry and nice. I ran >the car and it pretty much did the same thing! > > Any insights? I have yet to check the water pump. The temp >sender could also be suspect. > > > Thanks for all your help, > Matt Milkevitch > '74 MGB-GT > Willow Grove, PA > > > > > > Today's weather in Philadelphia was in the low 80's with low >humidity (quite a nice day). >_______________________________________________ >paul at ece.rochester.edu > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul at ece.rochester.edu From paul at ece.rochester.edu Thu Jun 21 05:56:00 2007 From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:56:00 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Tachometer maxes out @ 2500 rpm In-Reply-To: <001b01c7b3ed$f3547cd0$d6637dc7@Terrafirma> References: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <00ce01c7b3db$6eea0a30$0200a8c0@Three> <001b01c7b3ed$f3547cd0$d6637dc7@Terrafirma> Message-ID: Blair, very good article at http://www.classictiger.com/techtips/motach.html half way down it mentions your problem, lack of lubrication for the meter movement could be part of the cause. paul >I am pretty sure I have seen this question before, but because of the new >mailserver, I cannot search the archives past june of this year... > >Basically, the subject says it all.. the car will idle @ 800 rpm and the >tach will display 800 rpm... I bring up the rpms using the accelerator pedel >and the tach will follow the engine speed untill it reaches @ 2500 rpm, then >the tach freezes and the motor will increase in speed. > >When the engine rpms come down below 2500, the tach starts working again. > >I am so sure I have seen this question... > >Thanks > >Blair > >78 B >80 B >53 TD >_______________________________________________ >paul at ece.rochester.edu > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul at ece.rochester.edu From rolindsay at yahoo.com Thu Jun 21 06:33:36 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 05:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: <00ce01c7b3db$6eea0a30$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <339521.41800.qm@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Paul's comment is of course, right on. The other error I have seen is that POs install incorrect design and range thermostats. These are thermo-mechanical devices and they do wear out. rick --- Paul Hunt wrote: > You say 74, I presume this is the chrome bumper > model with mechanical > cooling fan and not the 74.5 model with electric. > > Your running temps seem normal to me given the > ambient of low 80s, and that > would indicate the gauge is accurate. However I'd > have said that going up > to mid-way between N and H when you are idling *is* > a little high, unless it > is for several minutes at a time with a slight > following wind (the > difference between a following and head wind can be > quite significant). > OTOH if you are stopped in traffic your radiator > will be 'breathing' all the > heated air being pumped out of the radiators of the > cars around you, which > will also cause your gauge to go up. Another factor > is temperature of the > air near the road surface i.e. heated by the effect > of sun on tarmac, this > can be 20 degrees higher than air temperature, again > causing a rise in the > gauge. What does it do if left idling on, say, > grass with no other traffic > around and in a slight cross or head wind? If that > is only slightly higher > than your normal running temps then I'd say you had > nothing to worry about. > > At the end of the day, cars with electric fans have > the thermo switch > calibrated to only cut in about mid-way between N > and H, and the gauge > should be able to go up nearly to the H without any > problems. If it isn't > steaming or losing coolant, it isn't overheating. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > The basic problem is this: The past couple of > days have been fairly hot > > here in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with a 165 > deg F thermostat, the car > > seems to run a little hot (in my opinion). The > needle on the temp gauge > > is a little above the "N." When I sit in traffic, > the temp goes up some > > more, maybe 1/2 way between "N" and "H." It comes > down a little when I > > get going. > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From rolindsay at yahoo.com Thu Jun 21 06:34:51 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 05:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed. In-Reply-To: <00d001c7b3db$6f258c90$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <798917.41184.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> When I rebuilt my MGB's distributor there was so much PO-installed grease that the advance weights wouldn't move! No wonder the car was dead when I got it! rick --- Paul Hunt wrote: > The comment about the carbs and getting the *ideal* > curve (as opposed to the > design curve) on a rolling road is perfectly > correct, but you can diagnose a > faulty curve i.e. too aggressive due to tired > advance springs with nothing > more than a timing light, preferable an adjustable > one where you can turn a > dial until the flashes are on TDC then read off the > real advance from the > dial. With a standard engine and carbs in good > condition I'd expect mixture > to be pretty much as it should be, it is timing > which is more likely to go > off. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > The problem is that without tuning the car on a > dyno or rolling road, it > > is unlikely that the tuning is going to be > accurate at that speed. > ... > > Getting technical, some quick checks with a timing > light showed that > > both original distributors were giving far too > much advance. > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jun 21 06:20:25 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:20:25 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Tachometer maxes out @ 2500 rpm References: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com><00ce01c7b3db$6eea0a30$0200a8c0@Three> <001b01c7b3ed$f3547cd0$d6637dc7@Terrafirma> Message-ID: <002901c7b400$1cee08b0$0200a8c0@Three> Try tapping it when the engine is doing 3000 or 4000. If the needle jumps up it is a physical problem in the movement. If nothing happens it could be electrical or physical. You *could* open it up and connect a voltmeter to the movement terminals (which is all the movement is anyway) and see what happens over 2500 rpm. If the voltage keeps going up but the movement doesn't again its physical. If the voltage stops going up it is electrical i.e. tach electronics. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Basically, the subject says it all.. the car will idle @ 800 rpm and the > tach will display 800 rpm... I bring up the rpms using the accelerator > pedel > and the tach will follow the engine speed untill it reaches @ 2500 rpm, > then > the tach freezes and the motor will increase in speed. > > When the engine rpms come down below 2500, the tach starts working again. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Thu Jun 21 08:36:45 2007 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:36:45 -1200 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue Message-ID: <467a8cfd.165.94c4.1645295699@ml2.myemail.com> "...had it cleaned out..." meaning what? Assume your radiator is the original (it's possible). It is over 30 years old. Even assuming it has received proper cooling system maintanance all those years (less likely...) all the flushing and even chemical cleaning is not going to make it 'good as new'. Unless 'had it cleaned out' means it was 'rodded out' (had the core physically scraped clean) there is likely a significant loss of cooling efficiency in that old radiator. Is the coolant temp gauge in your '74 MGB electrical or mechanical? Our '78 MGB has an electrical gauge. If yours is mechanical you can skip the rest of my drivel. Anyway, one day, after getting stuck in some stop & go traffic with outside temps over 90F, our 'B's coolant gauge began reading high. It continued to read high after we got moving again and even later that evening when the air temps had cooled off. At first I feared an engine or cooling system problem but everything checked out OK. A few days later, while doing some other maintanance work, I noticed the instrument's voltage stabilizer was loose where it is bolted to the inside firewall. I cleaned its mounting tab and the spot on the firewall, snugged it back up and subsequently noticed the gauge was now reading normally again! Eric Russell Mebane, NC > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:47:42 -0700 (PDT) > From: Matthew Milkevitch > Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue > To: mgs at autox.team.net > > I have a cooling issue with my '74 MGB-GT, and I was > wondering if anyone had any input as to the cause. > > The basic problem is this: The past couple of days have > been fairly hot here in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with > a 165 deg F thermostat, the car seems to run a little hot > (in my opinion). The needle on the temp gauge is a little > above the "N." When I sit in traffic, the temp goes up > some more, maybe 1/2 way between "N" and "H." It comes > down a little when I get going. > > Recently, I drained the radiator, had it cleaned out and > checked....and I re-installed it with fresh hoses (one was > leaking some) and a new thermostat. > > Today, it was in the low 80's in Phila...very dry and > nice. I ran the car and it pretty much did the same > thing! > > Any insights? I have yet to check the water pump. The > temp sender could also be suspect. > > > Thanks for all your help, > Matt Milkevitch > '74 MGB-GT > Willow Grove, PA Login from home, work, school. Anywhere! From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 20 20:05:49 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:05:49 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don't see a problem here, unless you're saying that this is radically different behavior than in the past. "A little above the N" is certainly nothing to worry about, considering you don't even know precisely what temperature "N" represents. When it actually hits the "H", or blows steam out of the radiator cap, then you have a cooling issue. Otherwise, the needle goes up and down, depending on conditions -- these aren't like modern cars where the temperature gauge never budges year-round. If you think you'd be more comfortable with a steady needle, though, I'd put in a 180 thermostat. In my experience, they aren't going to operate at a steady 165 in summer, anyway, so you might as well go with the flow. And that way you might actually get some warmth out of the heater at night on the highway. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/20/07 6:47 PM, Matthew Milkevitch at mmilkevitch at yahoo.com wrote: > Fellow Listers; > > I have a cooling issue with my '74 MGB-GT, and I was wondering if anyone had > any input as to the cause. > > The basic problem is this: The past couple of days have been fairly hot here > in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with a 165 deg F thermostat, the car seems to > run a little hot (in my opinion). The needle on the temp gauge is a little > above the "N." When I sit in traffic, the temp goes up some more, maybe 1/2 > way between "N" and "H." It comes down a little when I get going. > > Recently, I drained the radiator, had it cleaned out and checked....and I > re-installed it with fresh hoses (one was leaking some) and a new thermostat. > > Today, it was in the low 80's in Phila...very dry and nice. I ran the car > and it pretty much did the same thing! > > Any insights? I have yet to check the water pump. The temp sender could > also be suspect. > > > Thanks for all your help, > Matt Milkevitch > '74 MGB-GT > Willow Grove, PA > > > > > > Today's weather in Philadelphia was in the low 80's with low humidity (quite > a nice day). From Wilkmanracing at aol.com Thu Jun 21 10:04:37 2007 From: Wilkmanracing at aol.com (Wilkmanracing at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:04:37 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA Message-ID: I just had the engine on my 1960 MGA rebuilt by a reputable British car machine shop. Before the rebuild, it would run 190 degrees to 200 plus on hot days. I figured the rebuild, which included a thorough block and head cleaning, would tame these numbers. While breaking in the cam in the garage with a huge floor fan pushing air toward the engine, it experienced the same pre-rebuild temps. So, I had the radiator recored. But it still runs at the same temps on the road. I'm thinking of adding an electric cooling fan, but I've always been bothered by the huge, flat motors on most of these, that would seem to block air flow to a portion of the radiator. Does anyone have a recommendation as to a brand/model of electric fan that would work well on an MGA? Due to the limited space between the radiator and engine, the fan has to be placed in the "pusher" position on the front of the rad. TIA Bill Wilkman ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 21 10:03:29 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:03:29 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Performance oil systems In-Reply-To: <004401c7b3bd$b0c7bf60$6400a8c0@theendindeed> Message-ID: Usually a solution involves a higher-capacity pan (usually extended wider rather than deeper becasue of clearance issues), with a windage tray and baffles (often hinged baffles). I'd look for a race car fabricator/shop, since I doubt there is an off-the-shelf kit for this engine. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/20/07 9:36 PM, James Nazarian at james.nazarian at gmail.com wrote: > I tried this on the V8 list a couple of weeks ago but it didn't go anywhere > useful so I'd like to ask this list for some help. My BGT V8 is mostly an > autocross car. Unfortunately, during autocross, I'm uncovering the oil > pickup and starving the engine for oil. I'm trying to find information > about wet sump oil systems for high performance engines. I'm not opposed to > building an oil pan, I just want to know what to build. I guessed once and > that was not effective. Does anyone have any advice, or can they point me > to information that might be helpful? I don't have the time/money/space in > car to design a dry sump system, and I'm considering an accusump, but I'd > like to solve the root cause first. > > thanks, > James From r.gosling at penspen.com Thu Jun 21 10:11:10 2007 From: r.gosling at penspen.com (Gosling, Richard) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:11:10 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] UK Govt. refuses to extend tax exemption Message-ID: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF61A@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> An e-petition on the Prime Minister's website recently asked for the classic car tax exemption to be extended - it used to apply to any cars over 25 years old, but when the current government took power it froze the exemption at 1/1/1973, where it has remained ever since (5 months too early for Sammy to qualify :-( ). Here is the government's response to that petition: http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page12025.asp Basically - No, sod off! They are using the supposed 'green' arguement (as usual) to refuse the request. Never mind that classic cars tend to be lighter, have smaller engines, and far less parasitic loads (e.g. aircon, power steering etc.), so that their fuel consumption remains comparable to a similar modern car despite the less efficient engines. Let alone the fact that maintaining an exisiting car is far less polluting that disposing of it and building a new one. Oh well. It was never going to happen, really. Since when has this government ever listened to anything that's its citizens have asked for (rather than just pretending to listen then doing what they were going to do anyway)? But it was still right to ask. Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) ________________________________________________________________________ This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received it by mistake please notify the sender by return E-mail and delete this message from your system. 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The following UK companies within the Penspen Group and any electronic communication sent on behalf of any of them, are subject to the provisions of the UK Companies Act 1985; PENSPEN HOLDINGS LIMITED (Company Number : 980600) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) PENSPEN LIMITED (Company Number: 584446) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) (Unipen, Penspen Integrity and Andrew Palmer & Associates are operating divisions of Penspen Limited and Spencer & Partners and Pencol are trade names of Penspen Limited) LIBRA TECHNICAL SERVICES LIMITED (Company Number: 1874430) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) MANCHESTER JETLINE LIMITED (Company Number: 2392093) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 537 8635 08) From elco506 at austin.rr.com Thu Jun 21 10:16:47 2007 From: elco506 at austin.rr.com (Brian Lundgren) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:16:47 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Performance oil systems Message-ID: <001801c7b41f$91df12d0$7e01a8c0@Brian> Might this help??? http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?42,518987,519927#msg-519927 Brian Lundgren From peter at nosimport.com Thu Jun 21 10:20:46 2007 From: peter at nosimport.com (Peter C) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:20:46 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070621111947.03448bc0@nosimport.com> At 11:04 AM 6/21/2007, Wilkmanracing at aol.com wrote: >I just had the engine on my 1960 MGA rebuilt by a reputable British car >machine shop. Before the rebuild, it would run 190 degrees to 200 >plus on hot >days. That's fine.... isn't it? Peter C Lord, I pray my brakes are twice as good as the guy in front of me.... ... and half as good as the guy behind. From enquiries at classic-car-world.co.uk Thu Jun 21 10:22:46 2007 From: enquiries at classic-car-world.co.uk (Classic-Car-World Ltd) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:22:46 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA References: <7.0.1.0.2.20070621111947.03448bc0@nosimport.com> Message-ID: <009a01c7b420$6e71e6a0$0c00a8c0@ClassicCarWorld.local> What temperature thermostat are you using? If it doesn't open until 190 deg I would have thought that this will be normal. Kindest Regards Tom Tom McCay (Director) Classic-Car-World Ltd Tel: 01522 888178 FAX: 0870 705 9115 E-Mail: tom at classic-car-world.co.uk URL: www.classic-car-world.co.uk Now offering quality Sealey & Draper tools at discount prices, see www.ccw-tools.com for further details. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter C" To: ; Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA > At 11:04 AM 6/21/2007, Wilkmanracing at aol.com wrote: > >>I just had the engine on my 1960 MGA rebuilt by a reputable British car >>machine shop. Before the rebuild, it would run 190 degrees to 200 >>plus on hot >>days. > > That's fine.... isn't it? > > Peter C > > Lord, I pray my brakes are twice as good as the guy in front of me.... > ... and half as good as the guy behind. > _______________________________________________ > enquiries at classic-car-world.co.uk > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From WSpohn4 at aol.com Thu Jun 21 10:34:16 2007 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:34:16 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA Message-ID: In a message dated 21/06/2007 9:05:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Wilkmanracing at aol.com writes: Before the rebuild, it would run 190 degrees to 200 plus on hot days. I figured the rebuild, which included a thorough block and head cleaning, would tame these numbers. While breaking in the cam in the garage with a huge floor fan pushing air toward the engine, it experienced the same pre-rebuild temps. So, I had the radiator recored. But it still runs at the same temps on the road. ____________________________________ There is absolutely nothing wrong with those numbers. You've made sure the rad is good, and the thermostat is working. Just live with the temps, on a hot day they are par for the course. I highly recommend that people have their filler neck replaced at the time they recore the rad so that they can run more than a 7 lb. cap. Using a 15 lb. cap allows you a wider margin. It isn't the heat per se that damages engines, it is the boiling when they exceed the ability of the rad and coolant, at the pressure of the cap they are using. Make sure that you install the felt excluder - none of the retailers seem to highlight this part. It is Moss 472-560 on this page _http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29239#top_ (http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29239#top) There isn't even a picture or mention of it other than being the bottom-most part on the list. It is glued to the underside of the bonnet so that it bears on the top of the rad when the bonnet is closed and stops air going over the top of the rad instead of through it. IMO it should be highlighted and included in the cooling page as it can have a fairly large effect on cooling. I am going to cc this to Kelvin Dodd in case he wants to do anything about this. Many owners I've talked to don't even know they are supposed to have one of these! I would also like to see some radiator cap make a cap for the deep throat that has higher than the standard 7 lb.rating, but I expect the demand wouldn't warrant it (we are a pretty small market). I like a 15 lb. cap. I use a 25 lb. cap on the Jamaican. As an alternative, I have machined up a thin aluminum ring that can be epoxied into the neck. It has to be the correct thickness to take a shallow neck cap and it has to have a hole in the centra that doesn't foul the little valve in the cap, but it isn't exactly rocket science. The only problem is that it also has to avoid covering the overflow pipe and they vary a little. I suppose someone could make up and sell such a ring that you could pop into your original neck and then jsut use a new style short cap. If the small overflow pipe happened to be occluded, one would just have to get the rad shop to solder it over and move it up a hair. Send your royalty cheques c/o this address...... Bill Spohn From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 21 10:24:48 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:24:48 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 1. I'm not sure I'm convinced that 190 to 200 on "hot" days is any kind of a problem. 2. If you are trying to reduce the engine temp at highway speed, you aren't going to address that with a fan. Above 35-40mph, the fan is just blocking airflow. The electric pusher would be much worse in this regard than the engine-driven fan. The main advantage of an electric fan is that it continues to turn at high speed when the car is stationary and idling. The thing you can do is try to ensure that all the airflow through the grill is directed through the radiator core. This might mean finding a new source of 'cold' air for the carburetors. Pondering this issue of the large electric motor blocking airflow, I am somewhat surprised no one has come up with a kit that has the motor located at the corner of the radiator, driving the fan with a belt to a small diameter pulley. This would have advantages in fitting a "puller" fan to a shallow depth situation, and in improved airflow. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/21/07 9:04 AM, Wilkmanracing at aol.com at Wilkmanracing at aol.com wrote: > I just had the engine on my 1960 MGA rebuilt by a reputable British car > machine shop. Before the rebuild, it would run 190 degrees to 200 plus on > hot > days. I figured the rebuild, which included a thorough block and head > cleaning, would tame these numbers. While breaking in the cam in the garage > with a > huge floor fan pushing air toward the engine, it experienced the same > pre-rebuild temps. So, I had the radiator recored. But it still runs at the > same > temps on the road. I'm thinking of adding an electric cooling fan, but I've > always been bothered by the huge, flat motors on most of these, that would > seem > to block air flow to a portion of the radiator. Does anyone have a > recommendation as to a brand/model of electric fan that would work well on an > MGA? > Due to the limited space between the radiator and engine, the fan has to be > placed in the "pusher" position on the front of the rad. > > TIA > > Bill Wilkman From ptrmgb at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 10:44:48 2007 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:44:48 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5b0769cb0706210944xebcd1d1jfa8c1e063eeef8ee@mail.gmail.com> 190 to 200 doesn't really sound like a problem to me either. The problem with the remote motor would be required maintenance of adjusting the belt. We all know that most Americans can't be bothered doing basic maintenance on cars. Now your adding something more to do? On 6/21/07, Max Heim wrote: > > 1. I'm not sure I'm convinced that 190 to 200 on "hot" days is any kind of > a > problem. > > 2. If you are trying to reduce the engine temp at highway speed, you > aren't > going to address that with a fan. Above 35-40mph, the fan is just blocking > airflow. The electric pusher would be much worse in this regard than the > engine-driven fan. > > The main advantage of an electric fan is that it continues to turn at high > speed when the car is stationary and idling. > > The thing you can do is try to ensure that all the airflow through the > grill > is directed through the radiator core. This might mean finding a new > source > of 'cold' air for the carburetors. > > Pondering this issue of the large electric motor blocking airflow, I am > somewhat surprised no one has come up with a kit that has the motor > located > at the corner of the radiator, driving the fan with a belt to a small > diameter pulley. This would have advantages in fitting a "puller" fan to a > shallow depth situation, and in improved airflow. From doddk at mossmotors.com Thu Jun 21 11:33:13 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:33:13 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Performance oil systems In-Reply-To: <004401c7b3bd$b0c7bf60$6400a8c0@theendindeed> Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF130@kb1.mossmotors.com> James: I just happened to have a copy of "How to Power Tune Rover V8" by Des Hammill on my desk as I was looking up oil pump information. BTW. I highly recommend the book. The recommendation pretty much follows that on the SEight site. Stick a plate across the pan with a hole in it for the pickup. He does note that most commercial modified pans start with the Range Rover pan which has much thicker material. The downside of that pan is that the oil drain plug is situated and threaded such that on a lowered car it can loosen if bumped. He does follow up with the point that on very long turns enough oil can be thown away from the pickup that even in a baffled pan of this type the pickup can go dry. I don't believe this would be an issue with autox. though. One point I'd make from personal experience. Be diligent with any kind of sheet metal work inside the pan. The extremes of heat can cause cracking of any large surfaces of metal hard fastened to the pan. Take into account expansion and contraction as I've seen more than one home brewed windage tray badly cracked upon engine tear down. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of James Nazarian > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:36 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Performance oil systems > > I tried this on the V8 list a couple of weeks ago but it didn't go > anywhere > useful so I'd like to ask this list for some help. My BGT V8 is mostly an > autocross car. Unfortunately, during autocross, I'm uncovering the oil > pickup and starving the engine for oil. I'm trying to find information > about wet sump oil systems for high performance engines. I'm not opposed > to > building an oil pan, I just want to know what to build. I guessed once > and > that was not effective. Does anyone have any advice, or can they point me > to information that might be helpful? I don't have the time/money/space > in > car to design a dry sump system, and I'm considering an accusump, but I'd > like to solve the root cause first. > > thanks, > James From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 21 11:13:05 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:13:05 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA In-Reply-To: <5b0769cb0706210944xebcd1d1jfa8c1e063eeef8ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I suppose that's a point, but the old engine-driven fan already had a fanbelt, so this isn't adding anything. I imagine it would be a relatively low-tension, toothed belt, anyway. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/21/07 9:44 AM, Paul Root at ptrmgb at gmail.com wrote: > 190 to 200 doesn't really sound like a problem to me either. > > The problem with the remote motor would be required maintenance of adjusting > the > belt. We all know that most Americans can't be bothered doing basic > maintenance > on cars. Now your adding something more to do? > > > On 6/21/07, Max Heim wrote: >> >> 1. I'm not sure I'm convinced that 190 to 200 on "hot" days is any kind of >> a >> problem. >> >> 2. If you are trying to reduce the engine temp at highway speed, you >> aren't >> going to address that with a fan. Above 35-40mph, the fan is just blocking >> airflow. The electric pusher would be much worse in this regard than the >> engine-driven fan. >> >> The main advantage of an electric fan is that it continues to turn at high >> speed when the car is stationary and idling. >> >> The thing you can do is try to ensure that all the airflow through the >> grill >> is directed through the radiator core. This might mean finding a new >> source >> of 'cold' air for the carburetors. >> >> Pondering this issue of the large electric motor blocking airflow, I am >> somewhat surprised no one has come up with a kit that has the motor >> located >> at the corner of the radiator, driving the fan with a belt to a small >> diameter pulley. This would have advantages in fitting a "puller" fan to a >> shallow depth situation, and in improved airflow. From doddk at mossmotors.com Thu Jun 21 12:02:23 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:02:23 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF143@kb1.mossmotors.com> Matt: First. Go out and buy an infrared thermometer as suggested. They are really cool fun toys and will let you know what is really happening. Second. Quit worrying. If your temperature gauge starts heading north and keeps steadily going. Then and only then do you have a problem. A stable temperature of 215 degrees is not a problem in stop and go traffic. Variations up to just shy of the H mark are fine when sitting, as long as they stay there and go back down as soon as you start moving. The gauge, sending unit and voltage stabilizer can all vary over time. Also a 4 degree change in timing can cause a change from below N to above N. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Matthew Milkevitch > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:48 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue > > Fellow Listers; > > I have a cooling issue with my '74 MGB-GT, and I was wondering if anyone > had any input as to the cause. > > The basic problem is this: The past couple of days have been fairly hot > here in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with a 165 deg F thermostat, the car > seems to run a little hot (in my opinion). The needle on the temp gauge > is a little above the "N." When I sit in traffic, the temp goes up some > more, maybe 1/2 way between "N" and "H." It comes down a little when I > get going. > > Recently, I drained the radiator, had it cleaned out and checked....and > I re-installed it with fresh hoses (one was leaking some) and a new > thermostat. > > Today, it was in the low 80's in Phila...very dry and nice. I ran the > car and it pretty much did the same thing! > > Any insights? I have yet to check the water pump. The temp sender > could also be suspect. > > > Thanks for all your help, > Matt Milkevitch > '74 MGB-GT > Willow Grove, PA From rowdon at sonoma-county.org Thu Jun 21 12:13:28 2007 From: rowdon at sonoma-county.org (DON SCOTT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:13:28 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue Message-ID: What does one of those thermometers cost? Wish I had one years ago when I was more involved with overheating Britcars! My Miata and Civic Si temp gauge just go to N and stay there regardless of the ambient temp or the grade of the road or movement of the car. Maybe the gauges on Japanese cars are inaccurate and are designed to make the driver think everything's ok? >>> "Dodd, Kelvin" 6/21/2007 11:02:23 AM >>> Matt: First. Go out and buy an infrared thermometer as suggested. They are really cool fun toys and will let you know what is really happening. Second. Quit worrying. If your temperature gauge starts heading north and keeps steadily going. Then and only then do you have a problem. A stable temperature of 215 degrees is not a problem in stop and go traffic. Variations up to just shy of the H mark are fine when sitting, as long as they stay there and go back down as soon as you start moving. The gauge, sending unit and voltage stabilizer can all vary over time. Also a 4 degree change in timing can cause a change from below N to above N. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Matthew Milkevitch > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:48 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue > > Fellow Listers; > > I have a cooling issue with my '74 MGB-GT, and I was wondering if anyone > had any input as to the cause. > > The basic problem is this: The past couple of days have been fairly hot > here in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with a 165 deg F thermostat, the car > seems to run a little hot (in my opinion). The needle on the temp gauge > is a little above the "N." When I sit in traffic, the temp goes up some > more, maybe 1/2 way between "N" and "H." It comes down a little when I > get going. > > Recently, I drained the radiator, had it cleaned out and checked....and > I re-installed it with fresh hoses (one was leaking some) and a new > thermostat. > > Today, it was in the low 80's in Phila...very dry and nice. I ran the > car and it pretty much did the same thing! > > Any insights? I have yet to check the water pump. The temp sender > could also be suspect. > > > Thanks for all your help, > Matt Milkevitch > '74 MGB-GT > Willow Grove, PAfo/mgs From peter at nosimport.com Thu Jun 21 12:25:32 2007 From: peter at nosimport.com (Peter C) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:25:32 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF143@kb1.mossmotors.co m> References: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF143@kb1.mossmotors.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070621131927.03467de0@nosimport.com> All this cooling talk..... Modern cars lie with their gauges. They are not showing real temps, not even relative temps, they are just showing N unless there's a problem, then they show H, and likely the check engine light appears. Very digital in operation. And H to a modern car is very H in an LBC.... 240 or so. Modern cars would have many, many emergency phone calls about overheating if you actually saw the temp, so they don't show it. Peter C Lord, I pray my brakes are twice as good as the guy in front of me.... ... and half as good as the guy behind. From rowdon at sonoma-county.org Thu Jun 21 12:33:00 2007 From: rowdon at sonoma-county.org (DON SCOTT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:33:00 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue Message-ID: Now I remember regarding Miatas- early cars had temp gauges that were accurate. Later Miatas (from '94 up I think) had temp gauges that were fake, always showed N unless serious overheating was taking place. Owners of newer cars will convert to accurate temp gauges, but it's a big project to do it. My Miata is a '91 but the gauge does stay at N anyway. >>> Peter C 6/21/2007 11:25:32 AM >>> All this cooling talk..... Modern cars lie with their gauges. They are not showing real temps, not even relative temps, they are just showing N unless there's a problem, then they show H, and likely the check engine light appears. Very digital in operation. And H to a modern car is very H in an LBC.... 240 or so. Modern cars would have many, many emergency phone calls about overheating if you actually saw the temp, so they don't show it. Peter C Lord, I pray my brakes are twice as good as the guy in front of me.... .. and half as good as the guy behind. ______________ From doddk at mossmotors.com Thu Jun 21 12:58:09 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:58:09 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF161@kb1.mossmotors.com> There is a belt driven electric fan on the market, sorry I did a web search and could not find the brand. A friend of mine has one on his MGB GT V8. It looks like an attic fan and is useful for applications where there is not much room between the water pump pulley and the radiator, as in the MGB V8. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Max Heim > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:13 AM > To: MG List > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA > > I suppose that's a point, but the old engine-driven fan already had a > fanbelt, so this isn't adding anything. I imagine it would be a relatively > low-tension, toothed belt, anyway. > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires From peter at nosimport.com Thu Jun 21 13:11:33 2007 From: peter at nosimport.com (Peter C) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:11:33 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070621140107.031a0950@nosimport.com> But, you must know what IS N, and more importantly H. If the gauge in your new says 240, or 250, should you be worried? I think folks who drive new cars, and then hop into their "classic" often get too worried, because the classic's gauge moves, and may venture above N when the environment isn't N. ;-) fergetabout it, unless then needle lives in H. Then test the gauge, radiator cap, and look for leaks allowing the pressure to be too low. Peter C. === At 01:33 PM 6/21/2007, DON SCOTT wrote: >Now I remember regarding Miatas- early cars had temp gauges that were >accurate. Later Miatas (from '94 up I think) had temp gauges that were >fake, always showed N unless serious overheating was taking place. >Owners of newer cars will convert to accurate temp gauges, but it's a >big project to do it. My Miata is a '91 but the gauge does stay at N >anyway. > > > > >>> Peter C 6/21/2007 11:25:32 AM >>> >All this cooling talk..... Modern cars lie with their gauges. They >are not showing real temps, not even relative temps, they are just >showing N unless there's a problem, then they show H, and likely the >check engine light appears. Very digital in operation. And H to a >modern car is very H in an LBC.... 240 or so. Modern cars would have >many, many emergency phone calls about overheating if you actually >saw the temp, so they don't show it. > >Peter C > >Lord, I pray my brakes are twice as good as the guy in front of me.... >.. and half as good as the guy behind. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 21 13:21:36 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:21:36 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 6/21/07 11:13 AM, DON SCOTT at rowdon at sonoma-county.org wrote: > What does one of those thermometers cost? Wish I had one years ago when > I was more involved with overheating Britcars! My Miata and Civic Si > temp gauge just go to N and stay there regardless of the ambient temp or > the grade of the road or movement of the car. Maybe the gauges on > Japanese cars are inaccurate and are designed to make the driver think > everything's ok? Not so much "inaccurate" as "severely damped" -- they are not analog real-time gauges, but are under control of the ECU. For example, my wife's Geo Metro has a temp gauge that scarcely ever moves off "cold" (this seems unlikely for an inline 3 with a heritage of overheating problems and a plastic radiator the size of a sheet of letterhead). Dealer diagnostics traced it to the computer, which also tends to display the "check engine" warning at random. Their response was "Live with it -- it's not worth replacing the ECU". -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires > >>>> "Dodd, Kelvin" 6/21/2007 11:02:23 AM >>> > Matt: > > First. Go out and buy an infrared thermometer as suggested. They are > really cool fun toys and will let you know what is really happening. > > Second. Quit worrying. > If your temperature gauge starts heading north and keeps steadily > going. > Then and only then do you have a problem. A stable temperature of 215 > degrees is not a problem in stop and go traffic. > > Variations up to just shy of the H mark are fine when sitting, as long > as they stay there and go back down as soon as you start moving. The > gauge, sending unit and voltage stabilizer can all vary over time. > Also > a 4 degree change in timing can cause a change from below N to above > N. > > > > > Kelvin Dodd > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] > > On >> Behalf Of Matthew Milkevitch >> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:48 PM >> To: mgs at autox.team.net >> Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue >> >> Fellow Listers; >> >> I have a cooling issue with my '74 MGB-GT, and I was wondering if > anyone >> had any input as to the cause. >> >> The basic problem is this: The past couple of days have been > fairly > hot >> here in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with a 165 deg F thermostat, > the > car >> seems to run a little hot (in my opinion). The needle on the temp > gauge >> is a little above the "N." When I sit in traffic, the temp goes up > some >> more, maybe 1/2 way between "N" and "H." It comes down a little > when > I >> get going. >> >> Recently, I drained the radiator, had it cleaned out and > checked....and >> I re-installed it with fresh hoses (one was leaking some) and a new >> thermostat. >> >> Today, it was in the low 80's in Phila...very dry and nice. I ran > the >> car and it pretty much did the same thing! >> >> Any insights? I have yet to check the water pump. The temp > sender >> could also be suspect. >> >> >> Thanks for all your help, >> Matt Milkevitch >> '74 MGB-GT >> Willow Grove, PAfo/mgs From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 21 13:23:20 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:23:20 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA In-Reply-To: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF161@kb1.mossmotors.com> Message-ID: Ah, there went my patent application... on 6/21/07 11:58 AM, Dodd, Kelvin at doddk at mossmotors.com wrote: > There is a belt driven electric fan on the market, sorry I did a web > search and could not find the brand. A friend of mine has one on his MGB > GT V8. > > It looks like an attic fan and is useful for applications where there is > not much room between the water pump pulley and the radiator, as in the > MGB V8. > > > > Kelvin Dodd > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] > On >> Behalf Of Max Heim >> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:13 AM >> To: MG List >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA >> >> I suppose that's a point, but the old engine-driven fan already had a >> fanbelt, so this isn't adding anything. I imagine it would be a > relatively >> low-tension, toothed belt, anyway. >> >> >> -- >> >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires > -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires From rowdon at sonoma-county.org Thu Jun 21 13:45:58 2007 From: rowdon at sonoma-county.org (DON SCOTT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:45:58 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue Message-ID: Does a Geo Metro make you eligible for the Arcane Car Society of the SF Bay Area? The British Car show held in Palo Alto CA in the fall of each year, has a big (or small?) bonus feature. Cars from the Arcane group are the strangest assortment of micro, mini, and otherwise oddball cars I've seen in one place- Isettas,Volgas, tiny Fiats, Auto Unions, etc. etc. >>> Max Heim 6/21/2007 12:21:36 PM >>> on 6/21/07 11:13 AM, DON SCOTT at rowdon at sonoma-county.org wrote: > What does one of those thermometers cost? Wish I had one years ago when > I was more involved with overheating Britcars! My Miata and Civic Si > temp gauge just go to N and stay there regardless of the ambient temp or > the grade of the road or movement of the car. Maybe the gauges on > Japanese cars are inaccurate and are designed to make the driver think > everything's ok? Not so much "inaccurate" as "severely damped" -- they are not analog real-time gauges, but are under control of the ECU. For example, my wife's Geo Metro has a temp gauge that scarcely ever moves off "cold" (this seems unlikely for an inline 3 with a heritage of overheating problems and a plastic radiator the size of a sheet of letterhead). Dealer diagnostics traced it to the computer, which also tends to display the "check engine" warning at random. Their response was "Live with it -- it's not worth replacing the ECU". -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires From ptrmgb at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 14:06:15 2007 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:06:15 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7762A591-3BC4-4989-B92E-8B7336B05E74@gmail.com> http://tinyurl.com/2233ze $19.99 for a cheapy. I think someone said that modern gauges are computer controlled, and don't show minor fluctuations. On Jun 21, 2007, at 1:13 PM, DON SCOTT wrote: > What does one of those thermometers cost? Wish I had one years ago > when > I was more involved with overheating Britcars! My Miata and Civic Si > temp gauge just go to N and stay there regardless of the ambient > temp or > the grade of the road or movement of the car. Maybe the gauges on > Japanese cars are inaccurate and are designed to make the driver think > everything's ok? > >>>> "Dodd, Kelvin" 6/21/2007 11:02:23 AM >>> > Matt: > > First. Go out and buy an infrared thermometer as suggested. They are > really cool fun toys and will let you know what is really happening. > > Second. Quit worrying. > If your temperature gauge starts heading north and keeps steadily > going. > Then and only then do you have a problem. A stable temperature of 215 > degrees is not a problem in stop and go traffic. > > Variations up to just shy of the H mark are fine when sitting, as long > as they stay there and go back down as soon as you start moving. The > gauge, sending unit and voltage stabilizer can all vary over time. > Also > a 4 degree change in timing can cause a change from below N to above > N. > > > > > Kelvin Dodd > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] > > On >> Behalf Of Matthew Milkevitch >> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:48 PM >> To: mgs at autox.team.net >> Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue >> >> Fellow Listers; >> >> I have a cooling issue with my '74 MGB-GT, and I was wondering if > anyone >> had any input as to the cause. >> >> The basic problem is this: The past couple of days have been > fairly > hot >> here in Philadelphia. Running my BGT with a 165 deg F thermostat, > the > car >> seems to run a little hot (in my opinion). The needle on the temp > gauge >> is a little above the "N." When I sit in traffic, the temp goes up > some >> more, maybe 1/2 way between "N" and "H." It comes down a little > when > I >> get going. >> >> Recently, I drained the radiator, had it cleaned out and > checked....and >> I re-installed it with fresh hoses (one was leaking some) and a new >> thermostat. >> >> Today, it was in the low 80's in Phila...very dry and nice. I ran > the >> car and it pretty much did the same thing! >> >> Any insights? I have yet to check the water pump. The temp > sender >> could also be suspect. >> >> >> Thanks for all your help, >> Matt Milkevitch >> '74 MGB-GT >> Willow Grove, PAfo/mgs > _______________________________________________ > ptrmgb at gmail.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Paul Root ptrmgb at gmail.com 77 MGB 99 OBS From WSpohn4 at aol.com Thu Jun 21 14:11:55 2007 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:11:55 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue Message-ID: In a message dated 21/06/2007 12:28:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, peter at nosimport.com writes: Modern cars would have many, many emergency phone calls about overheating if you actually saw the temp, so they don't show it. ____________________________________ Its not the water temp that bothers me on modern cars, it is the oil pressure - measured in an on/off fashion by a light that tells you you either have an engine, or an ex-engine..... Bill From sammler at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 21 14:26:49 2007 From: sammler at bellsouth.net (Pat Harris - "sammler") Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:26:49 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF143@kb1.mossmotors.com> References: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF143@kb1.mossmotors.com> Message-ID: <467ADF09.5080500@bellsouth.net> I can second the recommendation to purchase an IR thermometer. In addition to using it to convince myself that the temperature of the circulating water was somewhat correct at various locations I also used it to help me locate the "hot spots" on the inside of the firewall/foot well of my MGA so that I could make an attempt to lower the temp inside the car. I found a sizable gap on the passenger side where the slanted floorboard meets the firewall and plugging it helped quite a bit. For city driving I found that the plastic cooling shroud kept the temp down a few degrees - as I understand it the effect of the shroud is just to make a better pathway for the air at low rpms, forcing it toward the rear of the engine compartment and thus not allowing the air which has just passed through the radiator from being sucked around to the front of the radiator. Dodd, Kelvin wrote: > Matt: > > First. Go out and buy an infrared thermometer as suggested. They are > really cool fun toys and will let you know what is really happening. From peter at nosimport.com Thu Jun 21 14:30:25 2007 From: peter at nosimport.com (Peter C) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:30:25 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: <467ADF09.5080500@bellsouth.net> References: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF143@kb1.mossmotors.com> <467ADF09.5080500@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070621152957.034afeb8@nosimport.com> Helps with alignments, too. At 03:26 PM 6/21/2007, Pat Harris - \"sammler\" wrote: >I can second the recommendation to purchase an IR thermometer. In >addition to using it to convince myself that the temperature of the >circulating water was somewhat correct at various locations I also used >it to help me locate the "hot spots" on the inside of the firewall/foot >well of my MGA so that I could make an attempt to lower the temp inside >the car. I found a sizable gap on the passenger side where the slanted >floorboard meets the firewall and plugging it helped quite a bit. > >For city driving I found that the plastic cooling shroud kept the temp >down a few degrees - as I understand it the effect of the shroud is just >to make a better pathway for the air at low rpms, forcing it toward the >rear of the engine compartment and thus not allowing the air which has >just passed through the radiator from being sucked around to the front >of the radiator. > >Dodd, Kelvin wrote: > > Matt: > > > > First. Go out and buy an infrared thermometer as suggested. They are > > really cool fun toys and will let you know what is really happening. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 21 14:20:36 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:20:36 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue [now microcars, OT] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not really... Metros are pretty common (later on they were even badged as Chevies). But a lot of the folks in the AAS are also members of the Microcar & Minicar Club, which we participated in when my wife had a Honda 600 (which qualified as both Mini and Arcane). We joined them for the Xmas Tree Run one year and brought back a tree on the roof (a small tree, needless to say). On that subject, I saw a Scootacar (on a trailer, not on the track -- heaven forbid) at the Wine Country Classic vintage races. That would definitely be a double-qualifier... -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/21/07 12:45 PM, DON SCOTT at rowdon at sonoma-county.org wrote: > Does a Geo Metro make you eligible for the Arcane Car > Society of the SF Bay Area? The British Car show held in > Palo Alto CA in the fall of each year, has a big (or small?) > bonus feature. Cars from the Arcane group are the strangest > assortment of micro, mini, and otherwise oddball cars I've > seen in one place- Isettas,Volgas, tiny Fiats, Auto Unions, > etc. etc. > > > >>>> Max Heim 6/21/2007 12:21:36 PM >>>> > on 6/21/07 11:13 AM, DON SCOTT at rowdon at sonoma-county.org > wrote: > >> What does one of those thermometers cost? Wish I had one > years ago when >> I was more involved with overheating Britcars! My Miata > and Civic Si >> temp gauge just go to N and stay there regardless of the > ambient temp or >> the grade of the road or movement of the car. Maybe the > gauges on >> Japanese cars are inaccurate and are designed to make the > driver think >> everything's ok? > > Not so much "inaccurate" as "severely damped" -- they are > not analog > real-time gauges, but are under control of the ECU. > > For example, my wife's Geo Metro has a temp gauge that > scarcely ever moves > off "cold" (this seems unlikely for an inline 3 with a > heritage of > overheating problems and a plastic radiator the size of a > sheet of > letterhead). Dealer diagnostics traced it to the computer, > which also tends > to display the "check engine" warning at random. Their > response was "Live > with it -- it's not worth replacing the ECU". > > > -- From WSpohn4 at aol.com Thu Jun 21 14:47:07 2007 From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:47:07 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue Message-ID: In a message dated 21/06/2007 1:34:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ptrmgb at gmail.com writes: I think someone said that modern gauges are computer controlled, and don't show minor fluctuations. ____________________________________ I believe that's right Doesn't much matter on water temp. And on oil pressure gauges, the stock small bore capillary type do a lousy job - the actual pressure can drop momentarily to zero and the gauge hardly shows a flicker. Which is why we use larger bore mechanical tube gauges on race cars. Bill S. From cyberemp at comcast.net Thu Jun 21 15:01:34 2007 From: cyberemp at comcast.net (cyberemp at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 21:01:34 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] best electric cooling fan for MGA Message-ID: <062120072101.23442.467AE72E000D355900005B9222165662769F030A9D0A0D970C@comcast.net> Hi Bill, list. Every time I've rebuilt an engine (or had it done for me ), it has run hot for the first few hundred miles. I always expected this was because the rings are causing a lot of friction as they seat them selves, or "bed in" You will also see a lovely golden color to your first oil change because of the initial run in period for your engine does seem to "free up" some surface of your bearings as a seat in process. I Don't understand the golden color of the oil bit. Maybe it was just me fitting bearings imprecisely. But the extra heat seems understandable. Eric (rare unlurking appearance) 46 MGTC 59 MGA 65 MGB 70 MGB 71 MGB 74.5 MGB 00 Nissan X-Terra 03 MINI So many cars, so little parking Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:04:37 EDT From: Wilkmanracing at aol.com Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA To: mgs at autox.team.net Message-ID: " << References: Message-ID: There is a model that has the motor off to the side. Someone at the Brit V8 show at Townsend had one on an MGB. Maybe they are not as robust as central on-the-shaft one At 12:24 PM 6/21/2007, Max Heim wrote: >1. I'm not sure I'm convinced that 190 to 200 on "hot" days is any kind of a >problem. > >2. If you are trying to reduce the engine temp at highway speed, you aren't >going to address that with a fan. Above 35-40mph, the fan is just blocking >airflow. The electric pusher would be much worse in this regard than the >engine-driven fan. > >The main advantage of an electric fan is that it continues to turn at high >speed when the car is stationary and idling. > >The thing you can do is try to ensure that all the airflow through the grill >is directed through the radiator core. This might mean finding a new source >of 'cold' air for the carburetors. > >Pondering this issue of the large electric motor blocking airflow, I am >somewhat surprised no one has come up with a kit that has the motor located >at the corner of the radiator, driving the fan with a belt to a small >diameter pulley. This would have advantages in fitting a "puller" fan to a >shallow depth situation, and in improved airflow. > > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > >on 6/21/07 9:04 AM, Wilkmanracing at aol.com at Wilkmanracing at aol.com wrote: > > > I just had the engine on my 1960 MGA rebuilt by a reputable British car > > machine shop. Before the rebuild, it would run 190 degrees to 200 plus on > > hot > > days. I figured the rebuild, which included a thorough block and head > > cleaning, would tame these numbers. While breaking in the cam in > the garage > > with a > > huge floor fan pushing air toward the engine, it experienced the same > > pre-rebuild temps. So, I had the radiator recored. But it > still runs at the > > same > > temps on the road. I'm thinking of adding an electric cooling > fan, but I've > > always been bothered by the huge, flat motors on most of these, that would > > seem > > to block air flow to a portion of the radiator. Does anyone have a > > recommendation as to a brand/model of electric fan that would > work well on an > > MGA? > > Due to the limited space between the radiator and engine, the > fan has to be > > placed in the "pusher" position on the front of the rad. > > > > TIA > > > > Bill Wilkman >_______________________________________________ >barrie at look.ca > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From peter at nosimport.com Thu Jun 21 15:21:11 2007 From: peter at nosimport.com (Peter C) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:21:11 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070621161902.031fc998@nosimport.com> Late Audis use them. They have electric water pumps, too. Plastic. Sell like hotcakes, so they must be good ;-) (personally, I would not copy Audi/VW's technology of the past 8 years) Peter C' At 04:04 PM 6/21/2007, Barrie Robinson wrote: >There is a model that has the motor off to the side. Someone at the >Brit V8 show at Townsend had one on an MGB. Maybe they are not as >robust as central on-the-shaft one > > >At 12:24 PM 6/21/2007, Max Heim wrote: > >1. I'm not sure I'm convinced that 190 to 200 on "hot" days is any kind of a > >problem. > > > >2. If you are trying to reduce the engine temp at highway speed, you aren't > >going to address that with a fan. Above 35-40mph, the fan is just blocking > >airflow. The electric pusher would be much worse in this regard than the > >engine-driven fan. > > > >The main advantage of an electric fan is that it continues to turn at high > >speed when the car is stationary and idling. > > > >The thing you can do is try to ensure that all the airflow through the grill > >is directed through the radiator core. This might mean finding a new source > >of 'cold' air for the carburetors. > > > >Pondering this issue of the large electric motor blocking airflow, I am > >somewhat surprised no one has come up with a kit that has the motor located > >at the corner of the radiator, driving the fan with a belt to a small > >diameter pulley. This would have advantages in fitting a "puller" fan to a > >shallow depth situation, and in improved airflow. > > > > > >-- > > > >Max Heim > >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 > >If you're near Mountain View, CA, > >it's the primer red one with chrome wires From rowdon at sonoma-county.org Thu Jun 21 15:51:25 2007 From: rowdon at sonoma-county.org (DON SCOTT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:51:25 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] test Message-ID: test From Rabeys at aol.com Thu Jun 21 16:12:14 2007 From: Rabeys at aol.com (Rabeys at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:12:14 EDT Subject: [Mgs] 72Midge turn signal prob solved Message-ID: well...it turns out that it was indeed the relay for the turn signals that was the problem. i foolishly assumed because it was new that it wouldnt be the problem. it worked initially and then stopped altogether so i figured there was still an underlying wire problem. i bought a heavy duty relay, and it started working again. i also realized that i was getting the function of the volt meter confused with the probe thing...whatever the official term for that is. so im thinking i dont need to mess with the volt meter yet. instead, i took it back, went for a nice long drive and had a cocktail lunch. i figure i deserved that much. i still have no windshield wipers or dash lights so that is the next problem, however, on my nice drive, i felt something liquid drop on a toe and found that my master cylinder is on the way out. fix one thing and something bigger breaks...aint that the way it goes. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 21 16:44:40 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:44:40 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 72Midge turn signal prob solved In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Better put some plastic down in the footwell. Brake fluid will destroy the carpet and rust the floors. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/21/07 3:12 PM, Rabeys at aol.com at Rabeys at aol.com wrote: > > i still have no windshield wipers or dash lights so that is the next > problem, however, on my nice drive, i felt something liquid drop on a toe and > found > that my master cylinder is on the way out. fix one thing and something > bigger breaks...aint that the way it goes. From sammler at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 21 16:51:35 2007 From: sammler at bellsouth.net (Pat Harris - "sammler") Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:51:35 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue In-Reply-To: References: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF143@kb1.mossmotors.com> <467ADF09.5080500@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <467B00F7.3040000@bellsouth.net> Any specifics below are referring to my MGA and you are making an assumption that the IR thermometer is working correctly and the temperature gauge is also working correctly. Also, my suggestions are for making readings which you will simply "compare/contrast". For starters and something of a "baseline" you could check the temp of the thermostat housing with a "cold" engine. Make any readings on the metal parts where hoses attach and not on the hose(s). Before starting the engine the 2 connections on the heater box should be the same as that of the thermostat housing. Start with the valve for controlling the water going to the heater box in the OFF position. Although a rising temp in the engine compartment temp may cause these points to rise a bit you should be able to determine if the valve is faulty as the temp of the water exiting the heater box would increase if the valve was not shutting completely and conversely the temp shouldn't go up if the valve was not opening at all. The heater valve on the MGA has an area on the outside where you can see a flat spot at one end of the ramp where the actuating arm is suppose to rest for a "full off" position and you may need to use a screwdriver or something else to push it to this position - it's not supposed to get into that position by simply moving the heat control lever on the dash. In winter it's supposed to be in the "not fully closed" position and easily moved with the heater control lever on the dash. Before starting, the metal for attaching the hose going to the top of the radiator should be the same as any other metal under the hood, perhaps even the ambient temperature. As the engine warms up there should be a point where the metal part of the thermostat housing to which the top hose is connected should show a rapid increase in temperature, reaching the temp at which the thermostat is rated. As the engine warms up the temp reading at this point will probably go up, up, up as will the needle on the dashboard gauge. The metal connection on the radiator for the top hose should reach that same temp and the temp on the metal connection on the bottom of the radiator should show a lesser temp as a result of the radiator cooling the water as it passes through. You can also use the IR thermometer to check locations across the radiator to see if there are any spots where it is considerably cooler that other locations. That would probably indicate a portion of the radiator NOT circulating any water - blocked?? After things start to warm up you can get the best indication of what temperature reading your dashboard gauge should show by checking the temp at the point where the gauge connects to the water pump - just above the front dynamo mount and at the same time see what the dashboard thermometer displays. From barneymg at mgaguru.com Thu Jun 21 17:11:47 2007 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:11:47 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Performance oil systems In-Reply-To: <004401c7b3bd$b0c7bf60$6400a8c0@theendindeed> References: <004401c7b3bd$b0c7bf60$6400a8c0@theendindeed> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.1.20070621171932.03f81470@mgaguru.com> At 12:36 AM 6/21/2007 -0400, James Nazarian wrote: >.... My BGT V8 is mostly an autocross car. Unfortunately, during >autocross, I'm uncovering the oil pickup and starving the engine for oil. Been there, but in my case it was cavitation of the oil pump at 7000 rpm. >I'm trying to find information about wet sump oil systems for high >performance engines. I'm not opposed to building an oil pan, I just >want to know what to build. .... I'm considering an accusump, but >I'd like to solve the root cause first. A car running on race tires can generate up to 1g of side force in a fast turn. For gravity return oil flow this is equivelant to tilting the car 45 degrees to one side while the engine is running at high speed. Naturlly oil will flow to one side of the sump, so the sump needs to be deep and narrow.. Oil flow rate is quite high. In the Austin B-series 3-main engine (for example) the oil pump displaces 1/2 cubic inch of oil per revolution. That works out to 54 quarts per minute at 7000 rpm, or nearly 1 quart per second. An engine in good condition only needs about 12 quarts per minute to reach relief pressure (at less than 2000 rpm), after which all excess flow (most of the oil flow) goes past the relief valve returning directly to the sump. The pressure relief return port is at the LR corner of the sump. As such, articulated baffles might help to retain oil near the pickup screen during a left hand turn, but may do nothing to help during a right hand turn. The amount of oil trapped between the baffles may last 2 seconds or less before the center of the sump is sucked dry. It could help to pipe the relief return port over to the center of the sump in conjunction with baffles, but you then need to assure that the baffles are not so tall as to raise oil level in the center of the sump high enough to touch the whirling connecting rods. It is more effective to make the oil pan narrow and an inch deeper and extend the pick-up pipe an inch to lower the pick-up screen. If the sump extends below the frame, then speed bumps become a hazzard. A windage tray might be used to reduce foaming of the oil, but does nothing to help the sump slosh problem. An Accusump unit that can retain one quart of oil can supply oil to the engine for up to 5 seconds in the event of pick-up starvation. The Accusump maximum pressure must be set slightly below the setting of the pressure relief valve so it will charge up from normal oil pump delivery and will not dump its contents past the relief valve. A single hard turn lasting more than 5 seconds would be rare for an autocross car. However, consecutive left and right hard turns with very little transition time in between (like a long slalom for instance) could do you in. For oil starvation conditions lasting more than five seconds, the "standard" solution is a shallow oil pan, dry sump, scavenger pump, and external oil reservoir. This gives the possibility of having a deep narrow sump without extending the oil pan near the ground. From james.nazarian at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 17:31:39 2007 From: james.nazarian at gmail.com (James Nazarian) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:31:39 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Performance oil systems In-Reply-To: <00b701c7b3d9$55285450$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <002201c7b45c$51955300$6400a8c0@theendindeed> That is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for! I don't know why I couldn't find that myself. Thanks Paul. James ?-----Original Message----- ?From: Paul Hunt [mailto:paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk] ?Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:48 AM ?To: James Nazarian; mgs at autox.team.net ?Subject: Re: [Mgs] Performance oil systems ? ?The root cause is using the engine outside the parameters the ?designers catered for. Is it 'just' a case of baffling the ?sump to create a number of chambers, with only small holes ?between them to increase the time it takes for all the oil to ?end up at one end (or side) of the pan under high G forces? ? ?This Google search lists lots of sites that discuss this, the ?3rd one down being for a Rover V8. ?http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=baffled+sump&btnG=Google +Search&meta= ? ?PaulH. ? ?----- Original Message ----- ?> ... My BGT V8 is mostly an ?> autocross car. Unfortunately, during autocross, I'm uncovering the ?> oil pickup and starving the engine for oil. ? ? From rolindsay at yahoo.com Thu Jun 21 17:52:02 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] 72Midge turn signal prob solved In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <843569.92704.qm@web82312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Congratulations! Messages learned: + Its always our assumptions that trip us up. + Things do continue to go wrong but the answer to that is to fix everything correctly when it fails. Eventually there will be nothing left to fix. rick --- Rabeys at aol.com wrote: > well...it turns out that it was indeed the relay for > the turn signals that > was the problem. i foolishly assumed because it was > new that it wouldnt be > the problem. it worked initially and then stopped > altogether so i figured > there was still an underlying wire problem. i > bought a heavy duty relay, and it > started working again. i also realized that i was > getting the function of > the volt meter confused with the probe > thing...whatever the official term for > that is. so im thinking i dont need to mess with > the volt meter yet. > instead, i took it back, went for a nice long drive > and had a cocktail lunch. i > figure i deserved that much. > > i still have no windshield wipers or dash lights so > that is the next > problem, however, on my nice drive, i felt something > liquid drop on a toe and found > that my master cylinder is on the way out. fix one > thing and something > bigger breaks...aint that the way it goes. > > > > > > ************************************** See what's > free at http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From barneymg at mgaguru.com Thu Jun 21 19:18:39 2007 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:18:39 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Best Electric Cooling Fan for MGA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.1.20070621192511.01e798e0@mgaguru.com> This is getting a bit away from the subject line, but following the discussion. At 12:34 PM 6/21/2007 -0400, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote: >.... >I highly recommend that people have their filler neck replaced at >the time they recore the rad so that they can run more than a 7 lb. >cap. Using a 15 lb. cap allows you a wider margin. How hot do you intend to run the cooling system? 50/50 mix of glycol/water boils at 223dF at sea level. Boiling temperature increases about 3dF for each psi of applied pressure, so the 7psi pressure cap takes the boillong point up to about 244dF. My MGA temperature gauge goes up to 230dF. It is verified correct at 212dF with the sensor in boiling water. Last weekend I managed to drive the coolant temperature up to near the 230dF mark with extended puttering around a few small towns during a club rally (with 90dF+ ambient temperature). When I shut the engine off the indicated temperature would go higher, in fact peaking out at 85 PSI in the oil pressure scale on the combination gauge. That would be at least 240dF, and still it didn't boil or dribble. The only thing to be gained by increasing the pressure rating of the radiator cap above 7psi is the capability to drive the cooling system temperature even higher than 244dF without boiling (233dF with plain water). Such higher operating temperature is far beyond the end of the gauge scale reading, so you would have no indication of the real temperature until it might start to boil and spit. If you have any intention of going into that operating range you will need a different temperature gauge. As noted by several others, as long as it doesn't boil the engine is safe (if not entirely happy). The greater problem these days with our carbureted vintage cars is boiling of fuel in the carburetor, which is aggrevated by the presence of alcohol in the fuel. This is not a problem during cruising at road speed when air intake and fuel flow is sufficient to cool the carbs. But puttering around near idle with slow ground speed on a hot day allows greater heating of the carbs. Under those conditions my MGA has problems with vapor bubbles in the fuel causing a lean running condition (at anything over 220dF). In this case I have to pull the choke out to keep it running. As such, I cannot imagine wanting to run the cooling system hotter than 240dF, so no reason to use a pressure cap higher than 7psi. >.... >.... I like a 15 lb. cap. I use a 25 lb. cap on the Jamaican. Wow. 15 psi brings the boiling point up to 268dF (with 50/50 glycol/water). 25 psi is more like 298dF. I know some new cars with fuel injection and fuel recirculation systems may run into that range, but for our vintage carbureted MGs the higher pressure cap only puts more pressure stress on the radiator structure (apt to burst a solder seam). Due to thermal expansion of the coolant, as soon as the system starts to warm up it starts to expell fluid past the pressure cap, and system pressure rises immediately to the relief pressure rating of the cap (even when coolant temperature is well below the boiling point at atmospheric pressure). >As an alternative, I have machined up a thin aluminum ring that can >be epoxied into the neck. It has to be the correct thickness to take >a shallow neck cap and it has to have a hole in the centra that >doesn't foul the little valve in the cap, but it isn't exactly >rocket science. .... Years ago my similar solution was to drop in the 1/4-inch thick rubber seal ring that is included with the cooling system pressure tester. I did it because I was installing a coolant recover setup, and the long neck caps were not available in recovery style with the top rubber seal. That worked fine for a few years, until I had the shorter neck installed on the radiator. These days you can buy the long neck cap in recovery style (up to 7psi). Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude http://MGAguru.com From Wilkmanracing at aol.com Fri Jun 22 00:08:13 2007 From: Wilkmanracing at aol.com (Wilkmanracing at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 02:08:13 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Cooling Issue Message-ID: Regarding the IR thermometer, where should you point it to see if the temp gauge is accurate? Bill Wilkman ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 22 02:03:00 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:03:00 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue References: Message-ID: <00b401c7b4a4$1236b580$0200a8c0@Three> That's 'cos modern cars control the temp gauge from the ECU, precisely because owners get paranoid about fluctuations :o) ----- Original Message ----- > ... Otherwise, the needle goes up and down, depending > on conditions -- these aren't like modern cars where the temperature gauge > never budges year-round. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 22 02:06:07 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:06:07 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] UK Govt. refuses to extend tax exemption References: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF61A@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> Message-ID: <012701c7b4a6$2c1e1bd0$0200a8c0@Three> Like you say, 'It was never going to happen'. I didn't sign it, I was more bothered that they'd say 'Lets scrap it all together and get more money in". PaulH One just in, one just out. ----- Original Message ----- > Basically - No, sod off! From blair at ifd.mv.com Fri Jun 22 03:55:13 2007 From: blair at ifd.mv.com (Blair J. Weiss) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 05:55:13 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Tachometer maxes out @ 2500 rpm References: <561459.78342.qm@web50909.mail.re2.yahoo.com><00ce01c7b3db$6eea0a30$0200a8c0@Three> <001b01c7b3ed$f3547cd0$d6637dc7@Terrafirma> Message-ID: <011c01c7b4b3$a5c14180$d6637dc7@Terrafirma> Update: Started the car last night and the tachometer worked fine. I didn't do anything to it... Blair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blair J. Weiss" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:21 AM Subject: [Mgs] Tachometer maxes out @ 2500 rpm >I am pretty sure I have seen this question before, but because of the new > mailserver, I cannot search the archives past june of this year... > > Basically, the subject says it all.. the car will idle @ 800 rpm and the > tach will display 800 rpm... I bring up the rpms using the accelerator > pedel > and the tach will follow the engine speed untill it reaches @ 2500 rpm, > then > the tach freezes and the motor will increase in speed. > > When the engine rpms come down below 2500, the tach starts working again. > > I am so sure I have seen this question... > > Thanks > > Blair > > 78 B > 80 B > 53 TD > _______________________________________________ > blair at ifd.mv.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From rolindsay at yahoo.com Fri Jun 22 06:13:50 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 05:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Tachometer maxes out @ 2500 rpm In-Reply-To: <011c01c7b4b3$a5c14180$d6637dc7@Terrafirma> Message-ID: <424280.88922.qm@web82312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ...so the question now is; What changed? Temperature, More frequent use? Peer pressure from other Listmembers? I still vote for a mechanical binding in the meter. Hopefully it has cleared and you'll have another 30 years of service. :-) rick --- "Blair J. Weiss" wrote: > Update: Started the car last night and the > tachometer worked fine. I didn't > do anything to it... > > Blair From toms_mg at tombuchanan.net Fri Jun 22 06:57:50 2007 From: toms_mg at tombuchanan.net (toms_mg at tombuchanan.net) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 08:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] Good used or rebuilt engine Message-ID: <3494.70.11.22.138.1182517070.squirrel@saturn.afmu.com> I am looking for (that is I'm willing to pay for it) a good used or rebuilt 5 main bearing MGB engine. Somewhere around '67 to '71. Within 100 miles of Bristol, Tennessee. Thanks to all, Tom From mmilkevitch at yahoo.com Fri Jun 22 09:37:19 2007 From: mmilkevitch at yahoo.com (Matthew Milkevitch) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 08:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited Message-ID: <106257.26226.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Fellow Listers; Thanks to everyone for all the helpful comments and advice. It appears that what I thought was an issue really wasn't, until yesterday.... Yesterday I started up the B and took her out. Temp was around 85 F (with low humidity) here in Philadelphia. What occurred before didn't happen this time at all. First of all, it seemed like the car got to "N" on the temp gauge in about 3 minutes. Somehow, I don't think this is normal. Second, instead of just settling a little to the right of "N", the temp needle went to exactly half-way between "N" and "H." I took it for a short drive, and it started to inch up toward "H." It stopped exactly to the left of "H." Not on "H," just a hair-width to the left. It would not come down off of "H" as I drove normally. I brought it home and let it cool down some. I then removed the radiator cap and started up the car. I confirmed that I was getting flow through the radiator (I could see the coolant moving). I ran the car (at idle) for about 10 min. I measured the temperature of the coolant using a candy thermometer (don't tell the wife!). I topped out at 185 deg F. My thermostat is 165 F. No steam, no leaks anywhere. I am assuming I've either got a bad sender or gauge? Any thoughts with this new information?? Thanks for your input, Matt Willow Grove, PA 74 BGT From r.gosling at penspen.com Fri Jun 22 09:49:18 2007 From: r.gosling at penspen.com (Gosling, Richard) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:49:18 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited Message-ID: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF621@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> I'd guess your voltage stabiliser is dead. This little box of tricks hangs around the back of your speedo, and converts the rather variable 12-14.5V at the battery to a steady 10V (or more specifically, switches back and forth between battery voltage and 0V to give an average of 10V). This prevents the temperature and fuel gauges rising every time the voltage rises due to an increase in engine revs. Is your fuel gauge reading high, as far as you can tell? If it is, it's definitely the stabiliser. It is hard to test using a digital multimeter, because of the way it works - the digital meter gives you an instantaneous reading, so will jump around between 0V and 12-14V (unless it's an advanced one with an averaging device). An old analogue multimeter will show more effectively. Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) ________________________________________________________________________ This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. 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The following UK companies within the Penspen Group and any electronic communication sent on behalf of any of them, are subject to the provisions of the UK Companies Act 1985; PENSPEN HOLDINGS LIMITED (Company Number : 980600) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) PENSPEN LIMITED (Company Number: 584446) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) (Unipen, Penspen Integrity and Andrew Palmer & Associates are operating divisions of Penspen Limited and Spencer & Partners and Pencol are trade names of Penspen Limited) LIBRA TECHNICAL SERVICES LIMITED (Company Number: 1874430) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) MANCHESTER JETLINE LIMITED (Company Number: 2392093) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 537 8635 08) From doddk at mossmotors.com Fri Jun 22 09:55:40 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 08:55:40 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Tachometer maxes out @ 2500 rpm In-Reply-To: <011c01c7b4b3$a5c14180$d6637dc7@Terrafirma> Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF2A9@kb1.mossmotors.com> Behold the power of the mgs list!!! Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Blair J. Weiss > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 2:55 AM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Tachometer maxes out @ 2500 rpm > > Update: Started the car last night and the tachometer worked fine. I > didn't > do anything to it... > > Blair > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Blair J. Weiss" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:21 AM > Subject: [Mgs] Tachometer maxes out @ 2500 rpm > > > >I am pretty sure I have seen this question before, but because of the new > > mailserver, I cannot search the archives past june of this year... > > > > Basically, the subject says it all.. the car will idle @ 800 rpm and the > > tach will display 800 rpm... I bring up the rpms using the accelerator > > pedel > > and the tach will follow the engine speed untill it reaches @ 2500 rpm, > > then > > the tach freezes and the motor will increase in speed. > > > > When the engine rpms come down below 2500, the tach starts working > again. From doddk at mossmotors.com Fri Jun 22 10:02:24 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:02:24 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited In-Reply-To: <106257.26226.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF2B3@kb1.mossmotors.com> Matt: If your fuel gauge is registering normally, I'd replace the temperature sender. If the fuel gauge is also acting wonky (technical term), then I'd suggest the voltage stabilizer. Temp gauges tend to be pretty dependable, whereas temp senders are prone to drift and failure. Make sure you get the correct sender for your year. The later sender looks the same but will read hotter. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Matthew Milkevitch > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 8:37 AM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited > > Fellow Listers; > > Thanks to everyone for all the helpful comments and advice. It appears > that what I thought was an issue really wasn't, until yesterday.... > > Yesterday I started up the B and took her out. Temp was around 85 F > (with low humidity) here in Philadelphia. What occurred before didn't > happen this time at all. > > First of all, it seemed like the car got to "N" on the temp gauge in > about 3 minutes. Somehow, I don't think this is normal. > > Second, instead of just settling a little to the right of "N", the temp > needle went to exactly half-way between "N" and "H." I took it for a > short drive, and it started to inch up toward "H." It stopped exactly to > the left of "H." Not on "H," just a hair-width to the left. It would not > come down off of "H" as I drove normally. > > I brought it home and let it cool down some. I then removed the > radiator cap and started up the car. I confirmed that I was getting flow > through the radiator (I could see the coolant moving). > > I ran the car (at idle) for about 10 min. I measured the temperature of > the coolant using a candy thermometer (don't tell the wife!). I topped > out at 185 deg F. My thermostat is 165 F. > > No steam, no leaks anywhere. > > I am assuming I've either got a bad sender or gauge? Any thoughts with > this new information?? > > > Thanks for your input, > > Matt > Willow Grove, PA > 74 BGT From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Fri Jun 22 10:18:59 2007 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:18:59 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited In-Reply-To: <106257.26226.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <106257.26226.qm@web50903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025FC12950@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> When my 72B had similar symptoms, it turned out to be a poorly grounded voltage stabilizer. On my 72B, it is mounted on the wall behind the dash and above my feet (LHD). Make sure it is not loosely mounted and maybe clean the metal surfaces where it mounts to insure you are getting a good ground. If that does not fix it, you could try replacing the voltage stabilizer and maybe the temperature sender. Both are fairly inexpensive parts. David Councill 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Milkevitch Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:37 AM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited Fellow Listers; Thanks to everyone for all the helpful comments and advice. It appears that what I thought was an issue really wasn't, until yesterday.... Yesterday I started up the B and took her out. Temp was around 85 F (with low humidity) here in Philadelphia. What occurred before didn't happen this time at all. First of all, it seemed like the car got to "N" on the temp gauge in about 3 minutes. Somehow, I don't think this is normal. Second, instead of just settling a little to the right of "N", the temp needle went to exactly half-way between "N" and "H." I took it for a short drive, and it started to inch up toward "H." It stopped exactly to the left of "H." Not on "H," just a hair-width to the left. It would not come down off of "H" as I drove normally. I brought it home and let it cool down some. I then removed the radiator cap and started up the car. I confirmed that I was getting flow through the radiator (I could see the coolant moving). I ran the car (at idle) for about 10 min. I measured the temperature of the coolant using a candy thermometer (don't tell the wife!). I topped out at 185 deg F. My thermostat is 165 F. No steam, no leaks anywhere. I am assuming I've either got a bad sender or gauge? Any thoughts with this new information?? Thanks for your input, Matt Willow Grove, PA 74 BGT From mmilkevitch at yahoo.com Fri Jun 22 10:26:53 2007 From: mmilkevitch at yahoo.com (Matthew Milkevitch) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited In-Reply-To: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C5AF2B3@kb1.mossmotors.com> Message-ID: <185235.61218.qm@web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Kelvin (and others).... The fuel gauge seems to be working normally. I will check and make sure the voltage stabilizer is properly mounted though. I think I may have a used sender around here...I may just do a quick check with that. I will also order a new one and put that one in. Thanks again, Matt "Dodd, Kelvin" wrote: Matt: If your fuel gauge is registering normally, I'd replace the temperature sender. If the fuel gauge is also acting wonky (technical term), then I'd suggest the voltage stabilizer. Temp gauges tend to be pretty dependable, whereas temp senders are prone to drift and failure. Make sure you get the correct sender for your year. The later sender looks the same but will read hotter. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Matthew Milkevitch > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 8:37 AM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited > > Fellow Listers; > > Thanks to everyone for all the helpful comments and advice. It appears > that what I thought was an issue really wasn't, until yesterday.... > > Yesterday I started up the B and took her out. Temp was around 85 F > (with low humidity) here in Philadelphia. What occurred before didn't > happen this time at all. > > First of all, it seemed like the car got to "N" on the temp gauge in > about 3 minutes. Somehow, I don't think this is normal. > > Second, instead of just settling a little to the right of "N", the temp > needle went to exactly half-way between "N" and "H." I took it for a > short drive, and it started to inch up toward "H." It stopped exactly to > the left of "H." Not on "H," just a hair-width to the left. It would not > come down off of "H" as I drove normally. > > I brought it home and let it cool down some. I then removed the > radiator cap and started up the car. I confirmed that I was getting flow > through the radiator (I could see the coolant moving). > > I ran the car (at idle) for about 10 min. I measured the temperature of > the coolant using a candy thermometer (don't tell the wife!). I topped > out at 185 deg F. My thermostat is 165 F. > > No steam, no leaks anywhere. > > I am assuming I've either got a bad sender or gauge? Any thoughts with > this new information?? > > > Thanks for your input, > > Matt > Willow Grove, PA > 74 BGT From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Jun 23 08:36:09 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:36:09 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited References: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF621@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> Message-ID: <00c701c7b5a4$3e2b0820$0200a8c0@Three> Or a test-lamp, all you are looking for is the output of the stabiliser (light-green/green) is switching on and off. But then if the digital meter *does* switch between 0v and 12v, then the stabiliser probably *is* OK. If it reads a steady 12v check the physical mount to the firewall, it needs a good ground to work. If that's OK then the stabiliser is probably dead. It normally takes 2 or 3 secs to start switching when first turning on the ignition, then switches about once per second after that. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > It is hard to test using a digital multimeter, because of the way it > works - the digital meter gives you an instantaneous reading, so will > jump around between 0V and 12-14V (unless it's an advanced one with an > averaging device). An old analogue multimeter will show more > effectively. From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sat Jun 23 12:51:21 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited In-Reply-To: <00c701c7b5a4$3e2b0820$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <812755.2380.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey Paul, et al., There is a potential point of confusion when using digital meters. The meter display does not continuously represent the measured parameter like an analog meter (damping ignored) but rather, it updates itself at a quarter-second to one second rate. This typically isn't much of a problem because most things we measure are static or better put, steady-state. The (somewhat) rapidly pulsing stabilizer output is NOT steady-state and not in sync with the meter's sample-and-hold circuit. Therefore, it is easier to evaluate the output of an old style analog meter or even a test light when evaluating a pulsing source. My son is a nuclear physicist in his fourth year of college. When he was home at the start of the summer (read: that time gap between end-of-term and start-of-summer-job where huge quantities of mom and dad's food is consumed) I had the stabilizer out of my MGB. (The fuel and temp gauges did not work so I knew where to look for the problem. It turned out that the stabilizer's mounting screw was loose and and enough rust had grown between the two to insulate the ground (earth) connection.) I put the stabilizer on my bench power supply and an analog meter across the output. I first applied about 9 volts to the stabilizer and it didn't cycle. Allen recorded 9 volts in produces 9 volts out. We then brought the input voltage up to 12 volts and the stabilizer cycled with a duty-cycle of about 75% on - 25% off. Allen soon realized that all that calculus he studied was just put to use. Even though the output voltage, when on, is 12 volts, it is also 0 volts when off. The output must be integrated over time. When that is done, the AVERAGE output is still 9 volts! He was fascinated that a mechanical device was putting the math to use so practically! Ahhhh, youth. Regards, rick --- Paul Hunt wrote: > Or a test-lamp, all you are looking for is the > output of the stabiliser > (light-green/green) is switching on and off. But > then if the digital meter > *does* switch between 0v and 12v, then the > stabiliser probably *is* OK. > > If it reads a steady 12v check the physical mount to > the firewall, it needs > a good ground to work. If that's OK then the > stabiliser is probably dead. > > It normally takes 2 or 3 secs to start switching > when first turning on the > ignition, then switches about once per second after > that. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > It is hard to test using a digital multimeter, > because of the way it > > works - the digital meter gives you an > instantaneous reading, so will > > jump around between 0V and 12-14V (unless it's an > advanced one with an > > averaging device). An old analogue multimeter > will show more > > effectively. > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From prbasmith at gmail.com Sat Jun 23 14:46:00 2007 From: prbasmith at gmail.com (Preston Smith) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 17:46:00 -0300 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cockpit Cover Message-ID: <467D8688.3050100@gmail.com> Hi all! Does anyone have any experience with moss Motors cockpit cover 237-900 for an MGB? What is it made of and does it repel light rain? Would it serve as a second cover over the tonneau to keep the interior of window and dash relatively dry? How is it mounted? In a nutshell is it worthwhile? Or is an alternative product better? AT $45 it is almost disposable. Thanks Preston From leylandauto at yahoo.com Sat Jun 23 15:17:11 2007 From: leylandauto at yahoo.com (Carl French) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cockpit Cover In-Reply-To: <467D8688.3050100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <93392.7301.qm@web51910.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I got one last year just before Stowe after one of our cats fell through the main zipper. We had damp nights and the cover performed very well in doing exactly what you would be asking of it (from my experience). It has six clips that connected to my car via the wipers, the rear wheel arches and I think the boot lid (or maybe the rack). YMMV Carl French Preston Smith wrote: Hi all! Does anyone have any experience with moss Motors cockpit cover 237-900 for an MGB? What is it made of and does it repel light rain? Would it serve as a second cover over the tonneau to keep the interior of window and dash relatively dry? How is it mounted? In a nutshell is it worthwhile? Or is an alternative product better? AT $45 it is almost disposable. Thanks --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. From sumton at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 23 15:18:50 2007 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:18:50 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cockpit Cover References: <467D8688.3050100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001501c7b5dc$3f69cf40$8115a8c0@Garage.local> i have one but i don't have a tonneau. i built a windscreen for the rear that uses the tonneau support bars, and this covers that and the cockpit well. i rather like it; its easier to put up than a tonneau and folds into a pretty small space. i also put it over the erected hood at night if i'm traveling and i think its going to rain, just to protect the interior a little better. it's a tad small for that, but does protect the hood/window joints pretty well. its fine for a light mist but i sure wouldn't want to rely on it in a heavy rain. to answer your question, i'm keeping it, i'm glad i have it, and i don't see myself buying a tonneau! Oliver ----- Original Message ----- From: "Preston Smith" To: "MG List" Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 3:46 PM Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cockpit Cover > Hi all! > > Does anyone have any experience with moss Motors cockpit cover 237-900 > for an MGB? What is it made of and does it repel light rain? Would it > serve as a second cover over the tonneau to keep the interior of window > and dash relatively dry? How is it mounted? > > In a nutshell is it worthwhile? Or is an alternative product better? > AT $45 it is almost disposable. > > Thanks > > Preston From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Jun 24 03:32:36 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:32:36 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited References: <812755.2380.qm@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009501c7b643$1a7a3870$0200a8c0@Three> The stabiliser output is so slow that analogue meter damping usually has no effect i.e. the needle swings up and down fully or almost so between 0v and 12v. You wouldn't *want* a digital meter to be in-sync with the switching, or it would read 12v all the time or 0v all the time, and either indication would lead you to think the stabiliser was faulty. The point I was making is that a test-lamp, analogue meter and unsynchronised digital meter all give you a simple go/no go indication of whether the stabiliser is working or not, which is all you need, the test being just whether the output *is* switching between 0v and 12v. Cheers, PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > There is a potential point of confusion when using > digital meters. The meter display does not > continuously represent the measured parameter like an > analog meter (damping ignored) but rather, it updates > itself at a quarter-second to one second rate. This > typically isn't much of a problem because most things > we measure are static or better put, steady-state. > The (somewhat) rapidly pulsing stabilizer output is > NOT steady-state and not in sync with the meter's > sample-and-hold circuit. Therefore, it is easier to > evaluate the output of an old style analog meter or > even a test light when evaluating a pulsing source. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Jun 24 03:39:03 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:39:03 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cockpit Cover References: <467D8688.3050100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <009f01c7b645$375207f0$0200a8c0@Three> I use an MGOC 'Rhino' cover which can be used with the hood up or down. It keeps the interior completely dry even in very heavy wind and rain. It's a substantial rubberised woven material, probably significantly heavier grade than the Moss cover, as it is about 60 quid i.e. 120 dollars. 20 quid sounds pretty flimsy, OK for light showers, but may shred in wind. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Does anyone have any experience with moss Motors cockpit cover 237-900 > for an MGB? From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sun Jun 24 06:37:55 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 05:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Cooling issue, revisited In-Reply-To: <009501c7b643$1a7a3870$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <954489.44656.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Paul and I wrote... >> ...and not in sync with the meter's sample-and- >> hold circuit. > > You wouldn't *want* a digital meter to be > in-sync with the switching... Correct. Those of us working in digital signal analysis deal with sampling issues daily. The problem we face is called aliasing. It occurs when the sampling rate is inadequate to represent the frequencies in the input data. There is a frequency called the Nyquist Frequency and that is the MAXIMUM frequency that can be present in the input signal to avoid aliasing. Aliasing is the phenominon that occurs where the input frequency is above the Nyquist and appears or 'aliases' as a lower frequency. The condition you suggested is the ultimate aliasing. That is, when a pulsing signal is in sync with the sampling. That means that the Nyquist is HALF of the input signal and therefore aliases at zero hertz - either the sample value of 0 or 12. Okay, now back to your originally scheduled program - already in progress. rick From Otis15 at aol.com Sun Jun 24 07:15:27 2007 From: Otis15 at aol.com (Otis15 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 09:15:27 EDT Subject: [Mgs] test please ignore Message-ID: test ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From ptrmgb at gmail.com Sun Jun 24 08:00:04 2007 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 09:00:04 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] June Sprints Message-ID: <6095E5D0-B9F4-4527-B7D9-D96AE900C142@gmail.com> We had a good day at the June Sprints yesterday. Sunny and warm (80s F). My brothers car ran pretty well, but he thought it might be a bit down on power. yy He decided we should switch out the left front brakes before the race, and did that in the morning. A few other things, and we had most of the afternoon off. Went by and saw BS Levy, and got a couple of his books autographed. Time came to go to the grid, he was third in class. Driving too the staging area, something wasn't right. the wheel was hung up. Fortunately, we had a little time. Unfortunately for someone in the previous race, they wrecked, causing the delay. We run back to the padock, and pull the wheel. Sure enough, we'd installed the pads wrong, got that fixed up and back to the grid, we weren't even the laskt ones there. None of us can figure out why we didn't think to test it before hand, we had lots of time. The race was quite good. He was turning consistent 2:52s on the 4 mile track. On the second lap, he goes by the start finish side by side with the 1st in class driver. 2nd place was still up there. The next lap he had a few second lead. Around lap 10, he passed the other car. In the end he won, came in after the cool down lap, and he tells me 1st, 3rd, and 5th weren't working. He takes his victory lap, and we have a great time in the victory circle! The two cars ahead of him had troubles, and he recognized that. But he has had more than his share of troubles on the track so he earned it! LBC content. The Brit's Pits (historic area of where British cars parked) only had a nice Jenson Healey. Down by turn one were 2 really nice Bs. A 67-68 BRG and a 71 Blaze Orange (whatever that color is). There was also a nice BGT out in the lot, that appeared to be a V8 conversion. A few spitfires, one TR3, and one TR6 are about all I saw of road cars. Some year, I'll drive my B down. But it doesn't hold 4. :-) Paul Root ptrmgb at gmail.com 77 MGB 99 OBS From qualitas.jack at gmail.com Sun Jun 24 12:47:54 2007 From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:47:54 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed Message-ID: <48720d20706241147v10c9e801v8f83de5b30aa4aed@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to the folk who responded to the question. Looks like I can be comfortable at 70+. In keeping my speed down to 65, the speed limit on the Interstate, I noticed that I could maintain a steady speed without passing slower cars. I guess that means I was one of the slower cars. Something to experiment with on the next trip. Once again, thanks to all who responded. Jack From jmc987 at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 17:50:32 2007 From: jmc987 at earthlink.net (joseph cianciotti) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:50:32 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Starting up a stored car Message-ID: <6A54F732-E323-4DC4-AD16-EE5FCE9E2CBE@earthlink.net> I'm been a bad boy. My MG's been parked in the garage for about 18 months. I know I need to change the oil since I needed to do it before I parked it. But what else do I need to do before I can safely (for me and it) take it on the road? Thanks in advance for all your sage advice. Joseph 67 MGB Roadster From lrc at red4est.com Sun Jun 24 17:55:16 2007 From: lrc at red4est.com (Larry Colen) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:55:16 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] O/D MGB tranny w/o O/D Message-ID: <20070624235515.GC25965@red4est.com> In the process of cleaning up, I found the transmission that went with my dead overdrive. I have no need of it. It's free to whoever wants to pick it up in Felton (Santa Cruz). I may be able to drop it off in the San Jose area as well. -- All your apex are belong to us. Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com http://www.red4est.com/lrc From temporarilyoffline at gmail.com Sun Jun 24 18:52:49 2007 From: temporarilyoffline at gmail.com (Steve) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:52:49 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Starting up a stored car In-Reply-To: <6A54F732-E323-4DC4-AD16-EE5FCE9E2CBE@earthlink.net> References: <6A54F732-E323-4DC4-AD16-EE5FCE9E2CBE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <76664a460706241752ue80322eu7c98c4067969f502@mail.gmail.com> If you go to Tony's website (theautoist.com) he has a checklist for starting a long term stored car... use it as an inspection sheet, fix anything that needs repair. Its called "waking a sleeping B" - Steve On 6/24/07, joseph cianciotti wrote: > > I'm been a bad boy. > > My MG's been parked in the garage for about 18 months. I know I need > to change the oil since I needed to do it before I parked it. But > what else do I need to do before I can safely (for me and it) take it > on the road? Thanks in advance for all your sage advice. > > Joseph > 67 MGB Roadster > _______________________________________________ > temporarilyoffline at gmail.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From rolindsay at yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 07:05:43 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 06:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] a little more progress Message-ID: <43648.31828.qm@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Friends, Made a little more progress on the '70 MGB restoration this past weekend. The emphasis should be on the word 'little'. The driver's seat is repaired and reinstalled in the car. It looks great (looks new) and is very comfortable now that the diaphram is repaired. The slide mechanism was also rebuilt, repainted and lubricated so the seat slides smoothly. I also cleaned and lubricated the headrest bar and the squab recline mechanism. In short, the seat operates and feels new. Mounted back over the newly cleaned and repositioned carpet, the whole package feels pretty nice. I installed the tonneaux cover only to discover that not only had the main zipper failed, the fabric has shrunk beyond usability. Yes, I can get it on but it is too tight and that probably caused the main zipper failure. I think I will scrap it. I checked the timing and verified that the car idles at 10 degrees BTDC. That's at a fast idle of 1000rpm. The idle at 800rpm is still a little 'lumpy' and all indications are that the mixture is a little lean. Still, it starts okay and idles nicely, if at a fast idle. I'll wait until I have a few road miles on the car before fine tuning the final mixture. I also installed the nicely restored pancake air cleaners using new filter foam. Next came the brakes. The brake and clutch pedal arms were surface rusted and the pivot points were loose so I removed the whole package. I cleaned away the rust with the wire wheel on the grinder and repainted the pedal arms gloss black. I also cleaned the pivot bushings and inserts. They were pretty nasty but not really damaged. The wobbly pedals were caused by missing shims on the pivot bolt. The PO had tried to address this problem by installing a hose clamp! Upon reassembly I simply trial fitted washers of varying thickness until I found a combination that allowed the pedals to move freely but without wobbling. I then greased up all the moving joints and assembled the whole package. Everything now operates smoothly. The pedal pads were undamaged and only slightly worn so I cleaned them with brake cleaner to strip away the oxidized and discolored top layer of rubber and they now look new. Once reinstalled, the whole package looks as good as it operates. Next step is to bleed the clutch, which works okay but I want to flush out the old fluid, and brakes which are now dead due to a damaged bleed screw on one slave cylinder. That circuit will also get flushed and bled after I service the brakes all around. Okay, it wasn't such a 'little' weekend. Until I wrote all this down I didn't realize how much progress I really made! I now need to shoot some 'after' picture to add to the archive. Best regards and Happy Monday, rick '70 MGB - work in progress '79 308GTB From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 08:59:48 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 07:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] June Sprints In-Reply-To: <6095E5D0-B9F4-4527-B7D9-D96AE900C142@gmail.com> Message-ID: <651990.93433.qm@web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Paul, what kind of car does your brother run? Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From John.Gunnell at fwpubs.com Mon Jun 25 09:43:43 2007 From: John.Gunnell at fwpubs.com (John Gunnell) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:43:43 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Does anyone know? Message-ID: Hi Mates We are rebuilding the 1500 B Series engine in a 1957 MG Magnette. We purchased new large and small timing sprockets from Scarborough Faire. They are the same as the MGA 1500 engine. We set the old gears on the bench and put the new ones on top of them. Then we lined up the notches for the keyways and the timing marks on both sets of gears. When these were lined up, the teeth on both gears do not match the teeth on the old ones? Both are about a half tooth off. Do we have a problem or does it not matter? John Gunnell Team Leader Transportation Books F + W Publications 700 E. State Street Iola, WI 54990 715 445 2214 extension 248 John.Gunnell at FWPubs.com From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 09:47:48 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 08:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] a little more progress In-Reply-To: <43648.31828.qm@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <105188.80547.qm@web50902.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Well, I made little progress although major in the move towards disconnecting things. Got the speedo drive, reverse switch and slave cylinder un-done and dangling, now just need to get the starter cover removed to access the wiring to the motor. Apparently, the covers are pretty rare! Pics in my blog. Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From doddk at mossmotors.com Mon Jun 25 10:53:23 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:53:23 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cockpit Cover In-Reply-To: <467D8688.3050100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C64CA6E@kb1.mossmotors.com> Preston: I left the recommendations to others for obvious reasons. The cockpit cover is made from the same Duravent fabric that our 4 year warranty car covers are made from. It is light, compact and would hold up to anything short of small herd animals trying to jump into your car. The material is water resistant enough that you would not want to leave the cover on during a rain storm without a tonneau under it. It will hold water, but after the first couple of gallons it's going to be dripping pretty quickly. BTDT. I'm not making promises, but I think the cockpit cover installed over a tonneau would keep the car completely dry even in a major storm. A properly fitted tonneau usually only leaks at the center zip (keep it lubed with beeswax) and a little behind the dash from splash. The cockpit cover would do a good job preventing these leaks. The best uses for the cover are as a quick sun cover or leaf/sap cover. It's much quicker to throw on than to snap down both sides of a tonneau. The elastic hold downs connect to the wipers and bottom of rockers. At the rear there are two tabs which are clamped under the boot lid. If you lock the boot, the cover cannot wander off. For MGA owners, there is an added benefit. If you store you car without a top up, the windshield post top pins play havoc with regular car covers. The cockpit cover for the A has reinforced pads where the pins hit so prevents damage if you are using a full cover outside in the wind. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Preston Smith > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:46 PM > To: MG List > Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cockpit Cover > > Hi all! > > Does anyone have any experience with moss Motors cockpit cover 237-900 > for an MGB? What is it made of and does it repel light rain? Would it > serve as a second cover over the tonneau to keep the interior of window > and dash relatively dry? How is it mounted? > > In a nutshell is it worthwhile? Or is an alternative product better? > AT $45 it is almost disposable. > > Thanks > > Preston From RampantNM at aol.com Mon Jun 25 15:43:47 2007 From: RampantNM at aol.com (RampantNM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:43:47 EDT Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed Message-ID: In a message dated 6/24/2007 12:48:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time, qualitas.jack at gmail.com writes: In keeping my speed down to 65, the speed limit on the Interstate, 65 on the interstate? Once you get out of El Paso county headed west the daytime speed limit on I10 in Texas is 80. Regards, Robert B. Houston 63 TR4 74.5 MGBGT 73 MG Midget b&Reminds me of my safari in Africa, somebody forgot the corkscrew and for several days we had to live on nothing but food and water. W. C Fields ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From Craig.Brownlee at oneok.com Mon Jun 25 16:13:59 2007 From: Craig.Brownlee at oneok.com (Brownlee, Craig) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:13:59 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Might as well be in Oklahoma... anything less than 80 and I'm getting run over! Its that reason why I'd like to find a good OD solution so that I'm not constantly turning 4500 rpm Regards, Craig 77 MGB -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RampantNM at aol.com Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 4:44 PM To: qualitas.jack at gmail.com; mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB Cruising Speed In a message dated 6/24/2007 12:48:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time, qualitas.jack at gmail.com writes: In keeping my speed down to 65, the speed limit on the Interstate, 65 on the interstate? Once you get out of El Paso county headed west the daytime speed limit on I10 in Texas is 80. Regards, Robert B. Houston 63 TR4 74.5 MGBGT 73 MG Midget b&Reminds me of my safari in Africa, somebody forgot the corkscrew and for several days we had to live on nothing but food and water. W. C Fields ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ craig.brownlee at oneok.com Edit your replies Mgs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From james.nazarian at gmail.com Mon Jun 25 16:47:24 2007 From: james.nazarian at gmail.com (James Nazarian) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:47:24 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Oil Issues Message-ID: <000301c7b77a$cca643d0$6400a8c0@theendindeed> Based on your advice, and a lot of research, I put about 20 hours of labor into the sump on my 215 V8 over the weekend. I wound up adding two quarts of capacity via wings, breaking it into 4 sections and adding 5 trap doors to it. I also discovered that the stock pickup required 1" of oil in the sump to cover the pickup completely. I reshaped the pickup and tube to only require 1/4" of oil to cover the pickup. As an added bonus, the factory location for the pickup bolts to the right side of the block and sits on the left side of the sump, after the reshaping, it sits centered in the sump. The end result is that the sump will easily hold the pickup submerged up to 45 degree angles. If I had a way to post pics I would, but I don't have an easy method, and I'm too lazy to figure one out. If anyone wants pictures, email me and I'll happily send a couple along. I will have the car running again Thursday night, and another autocross on Sunday so I'll update everyone about the success of the project afterwards. Thanks especially to Paul for finding a site about baffling Rover V8 sumps, and Barney for driving home just how much oil is moving around in the sump at speed. James From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Tue Jun 26 01:40:56 2007 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (Richard Feibusch) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:40:56 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] The Last Waltz - Palo Alto British Meet's Final Year Message-ID: A message to all West Coast/California people on this list The Last Waltz - Palo Alto British Meet's Final Year Dear Readers, It is with great regret that I must report that this year will be the last for the 30-year-old Palo Alto British Car Meet. The park is going to be reconstructed into an emergency reservoir for Palo Alto and rebuilt using astroturf on the fields. No more car shows as oil and gas will damage the new surface. Park and Rec officials have offered the city streets as an alternative, to be held in conjunction with other special events like art & craft shows. While we appreciate the offers, this is not what we envisioned three dacades ago, a reasonably priced, all British concours, that would serve as a convention to not only bring enthusiasts, publications, local shops and national parts suppliers together, but to showcase our automotive passion to newcomers and enthusiasts from other corners of the hobby. This year will be our last at El Camino Park in Palo Alto. We are planning the same show that you all have come to expect - lawn, jazz coordinated by musical director Herb Gibson, proper British breakfasts and lunches by Dennis Bedford and his The Ministry Of Food. Prizes in a bunch of classes, club displays and specialty vendors - plans are underway to bring back the Saturday Swap Meet one more time and our Saturday tour to the coast will be better than ever. Come join us for the last waltz at El Camino Park on September 8th & 9th, 2007 We are already looking for a new venue for 2008 and we will keep you posted in The British Car Network. We would like to thank all of you, especially the marque clubs, both in LA, where we lost our park a few years ago, and in the San Francisco Bay Area, for 30 years of enthusiastic support and all of the fun and good cheer that you have brought to these meets and our hobby in general. As one of the first in the US, we know that we sparked a movement that spread all over the country and our offspring can be seen in all corners of the nation. Long live the British car and the people who cherish them ......... Best, Rick Feibusch, If you would like to join the British Car Network and know about all of the California British car events and stories of British Automotive intrest, email: , and ask to be put on the list - This list is privately held, non-commercial and not available to spammers. ***************************************************** From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Tue Jun 26 01:41:15 2007 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (Richard Feibusch) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:41:15 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] Palo Alto British Car Meet 2007 Message-ID: ***************************************************** THE 2007 PALO ALTO BRITISH CAR MEET El Camino Park - Just Across From Stanford Center September Eighth & Ninth - 9:00AM - 5:00PM Join us for the most historic British automotive lawn event in California. 400 quirky, classic, and thoroughly lovable British cars are once again expected to grace the field at El Camino Park for the 29th Annual Palo Alto British Car Meet. SUNDAY CAR SHOW - SEPTEMBER 9th Join your British car friends for a smashing day at the park. Don't have a show car? Don't worry! Daily drivers, vintage racers, street rods & works-in-progress are as welcome as Concours quality restorations. British food, jazz, and more fun than you'll be able to tolerate! This year there will be individual marque awards in a minimum of 15 classes. There is no preregistration and all entrants will receive a commemorative dash plaque. Cars will be placed on the field starting at about 9:00AM, and the fun goes on all day. The registration fee is $25 per car at the gate. Joining us again this year will be the cool little cars from around the world in the Arcane Auto Society. Spectators attend for free. SATURDAY BACKROAD TOUR TO THE SEA - SEPTEMBER 8th The British Car Meet TOUR TO THE SEA starts at El Camino Park in Palo Alto - the same place as the Sunday Car Show. This is a no-cost option for people who like to drive their cars as well as show 'em. We will be sending cars off between 8:30 and 10:30AM. A map will be provided. The tour ends at Cameron's Pub in Half Moon Bay where we will be kicking tyres and telling tall tales well into the afternoon. SATURDAY SWAP MEET - SEPTEMBER 8th We are trying to bring back this event this year and have been contacted by a number of marque clubs that might be willing to organize ond administrate the swap meet - our staff is stretched with the tour and the show - more details as they become available ...... DIRECTIONS TO EL CAMINO PARK: El Camino Park is located on the El Camino, just north of University Ave, opposite Stanford Center. From 101 take University Ave. west, go under the Alma Street overpass, and turn right onto the El Camino Real. From 280, take the Sandhill Road Exit east and turn right on the El Camino, stay to the right to the University Ave exit, turn left at the overpass, then left again back onto the El Camino heading north. PLEASE, DO NOT PARK TRAILERS IN THE STANFORD CENTER PARKING LOT! Trailer parking will be available on-site on the south field baseball diamond. Call for information: 310-392-6605 e-mail: ************************************************* From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jun 26 02:12:46 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:12:46 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MGB Cockpit Cover References: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C64CA6E@kb1.mossmotors.com> Message-ID: <007d01c7b7c9$f8d50cd0$0200a8c0@Three> The tonneau bars are usually considered to be for the short cover that covers the hood/top, or the full cover when used in the same way, going behind the seats, and this is how it is shown in the driver's handbook. But if you fit them the other way round i.e. in *front* of the seats when installing the full-length cover, it lifts up the middle and rain runs off to the sides. As Michael Caine never said "Not a lot of people know that". PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > ... It will > hold water, but after the first couple of gallons it's going to be > dripping pretty quickly. BTDT. > >A properly fitted tonneau usually only leaks at the center zip From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jun 26 02:06:52 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:06:52 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Oil Issues References: <000301c7b77a$cca643d0$6400a8c0@theendindeed> Message-ID: <007c01c7b7c9$f8971970$0200a8c0@Three> Glad to help, especially on a subject I know little about! You mention Barney, and one of the first things I recall from joining the MGS list was Barney's account of oil starvation at high revs (in his MGA), because the pick-up was too close to the sump bottom and stopped pulling oil through at very high suction rates. Just a warning, reading the bit below, the Rover V8 oil system *is* classed as a high flow system (rather than a high pressure one). PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > ... I also discovered that the stock pickup required 1" of oil in the > sump to cover the pickup completely. I reshaped the pickup and tube to > only > require 1/4" of oil to cover the pickup. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jun 26 02:16:24 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:16:24 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Does anyone know? References: Message-ID: <008201c7b7cc$1f6e1d30$0200a8c0@Three> I'd have said that as long as the keyways lined up on both pairs of gears you will be fine. The position of the teeth is immaterial, they are only used to pull the chain which turns the other gear. If the keyways were lined up on one gear but not on the other, then you *would* have a cam timing error on one set or the other. Quite why the two sets are different is something else. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > We set the old gears on the bench and put the new ones on top of them. > Then > we lined up the notches for the keyways and the timing marks on both sets > of > gears. When these were lined up, the teeth on both gears do not match the > teeth on the old ones? Both are about a half tooth off. From mmilkevitch at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 07:35:29 2007 From: mmilkevitch at yahoo.com (Matthew Milkevitch) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans Message-ID: <133611.35057.qm@web50911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello Listers; Again, thanks to all who responsed to my cooling issues. I have installed a new sender unit and the car seems to be acting just as everyone has described. Remaining on the subject of cooling, what is everyone's opinion on electric cooling fans? Pros/cons? Personal experiences? Regards, Matt Milkevitch Willow Grove, PA From r.gosling at penspen.com Tue Jun 26 07:46:44 2007 From: r.gosling at penspen.com (Gosling, Richard) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:46:44 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans Message-ID: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF629@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> Apart from the faff and expense of acquiring and correctly fitting the electric fan, it's got to be all pro's, no con's. The mechanical fan is at its least effective when you need it most, when the car is stationary and the engine is just ticking over. Meanwhile, when you have no need of the fan at all, travelling along at speed, the fan is spinning round at great speed, and sapping precious engine power in doing so. On the other hand, an electric fan only comes on when you need it, at when it is on it's working as hard as it can, whatever speed the car and engine are doing. Better cooling, no un-necessary parasitic losses. Oh, I suppose there is another con, in that an electric fan has more potential to fail. Unless it falls off, or the fan belt breaks (in which case you are screwed anyway), a mechanical fan can't really go wrong. Having said that, after two BGTs and one Spitfire I have still never bothered swapping any car I've owned to an electric fan. But that's purely down to the faff and expense involved... Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) ________________________________________________________________________ This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received it by mistake please notify the sender by return E-mail and delete this message from your system. Any unauthorised use or dissemination of this message in whole or in part is strictly prohibited. Please note that E-mails are susceptible to change. 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The following UK companies within the Penspen Group and any electronic communication sent on behalf of any of them, are subject to the provisions of the UK Companies Act 1985; PENSPEN HOLDINGS LIMITED (Company Number : 980600) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) PENSPEN LIMITED (Company Number: 584446) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) (Unipen, Penspen Integrity and Andrew Palmer & Associates are operating divisions of Penspen Limited and Spencer & Partners and Pencol are trade names of Penspen Limited) LIBRA TECHNICAL SERVICES LIMITED (Company Number: 1874430) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) MANCHESTER JETLINE LIMITED (Company Number: 2392093) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 537 8635 08) From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jun 26 08:27:23 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:27:23 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans References: <133611.35057.qm@web50911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011c01c7b7fe$b00f2ff0$0200a8c0@Three> I'd agree with the general pros and cons of mechanical and electrical fans already expressed. But unless you really do need additional cooling through very extreme operating conditions, or need every little performance gain for competition use, it just isn't worth the time and effort converting to electric. When everything is working properly both types keep their cool, including in desert states. When set up correctly electric fans are also yet another source of paranoia i.e. seeing the temp gauge rise above normal (which is what the factory system is designed to do), plus worries about whether it is going to switch on or not. This is why modern cars control the temp gauge through the ECU, only allowing abnormal variations to show on the gauge, otherwise keeping it stuck firmly on 'N'. I have one of each, and the one with electric has always been more of a concern and source of problems. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Remaining on the subject of cooling, what is everyone's opinion on > electric cooling fans? Pros/cons? Personal experiences? From schultejim at msn.com Tue Jun 26 08:42:29 2007 From: schultejim at msn.com (James Schulte) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:42:29 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans References: <133611.35057.qm@web50911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <011c01c7b7fe$b00f2ff0$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: Matt My 2 cents. I had ,I thought a heating problem with my 70B and bought a fan. It didn't help. Turns out it was a bad thermostat. I took the fan off and just ran standard when I replaced the thermostat. Car is fine. Of course the rad was re-cored previous and all hoses etc were new. So, I agree with Paul, unless you are doing something extra with the car like racing or hill climbs etc. The standard system is fine if maintained properly. Even my 69 MGC runs on standard equipment and drove out and back to Louisville, KY and Gatlinburg, TN in 95* weather without a hitch. Jim Schulte Aquatic Coordinator Souderton S.D. Co-Secretary Philadelphia MG Club Co-Coordinator MG 2008 ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Hunt To: Matthew Milkevitch ; mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Electric Fans I'd agree with the general pros and cons of mechanical and electrical fans already expressed. But unless you really do need additional cooling through very extreme operating conditions, or need every little performance gain for competition use, it just isn't worth the time and effort converting to electric. When everything is working properly both types keep their cool, including in desert states. When set up correctly electric fans are also yet another source of paranoia i.e. seeing the temp gauge rise above normal (which is what the factory system is designed to do), plus worries about whether it is going to switch on or not. This is why modern cars control the temp gauge through the ECU, only allowing abnormal variations to show on the gauge, otherwise keeping it stuck firmly on 'N'. I have one of each, and the one with electric has always been more of a concern and source of problems. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Remaining on the subject of cooling, what is everyone's opinion on > electric cooling fans? Pros/cons? Personal experiences? _______________________________________________ From rmort at bezeqint.net Tue Jun 26 12:01:34 2007 From: rmort at bezeqint.net (R. Martin Rogovein) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:01:34 +0300 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans References: <133611.35057.qm@web50911.mail.re2.yahoo.com><011c01c7b7fe$b00f2ff0$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <004001c7b81c$d2666730$d2c11bac@bigmort> I have an electric fan on my 70, but without a temp sensor - it's just wired to a switch on the dash (DPO). after a rad recore a few years ago, i have never had a problem with overheating, even on 90-100 degree days. i only switch it on on really hot days in the summer, sitting in traffic, or sometimes on long uphill stretches on the highway from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, when the needle starts to climb towards H (it may well stop by itself before it gets all the way to H, but no need to tempt fate). RMort Tel Aviv ___________________________________________________ That's the difference between marijuana and alcohol: When Willie Nelson was pulled over, he had only nice things to say about Jews. --The Onion ___________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Schulte" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Electric Fans > Matt > My 2 cents. I had ,I thought a heating problem with my 70B and bought a fan. > It didn't help. Turns out it was a bad thermostat. I took the fan off and just > ran standard when I replaced the thermostat. Car is fine. Of course the rad > was re-cored previous and all hoses etc were new. > So, I agree with Paul, unless you are doing something extra with the car like > racing or hill climbs etc. The standard system is fine if maintained > properly. > Even my 69 MGC runs on standard equipment and drove out and back to > Louisville, KY and Gatlinburg, TN in 95* weather without a hitch. > Jim Schulte > Aquatic Coordinator Souderton S.D. > Co-Secretary Philadelphia MG Club > Co-Coordinator MG 2008 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Hunt > To: Matthew Milkevitch ; > mgs at autox.team.net > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:27 AM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Electric Fans > > > I'd agree with the general pros and cons of mechanical and electrical fans > already expressed. But unless you really do need additional cooling through > very extreme operating conditions, or need every little performance gain for > competition use, it just isn't worth the time and effort converting to > electric. When everything is working properly both types keep their cool, > including in desert states. When set up correctly electric fans are also > yet another source of paranoia i.e. seeing the temp gauge rise above normal > (which is what the factory system is designed to do), plus worries about > whether it is going to switch on or not. This is why modern cars control > the temp gauge through the ECU, only allowing abnormal variations to show on > the gauge, otherwise keeping it stuck firmly on 'N'. > > I have one of each, and the one with electric has always been more of a > concern and source of problems. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Remaining on the subject of cooling, what is everyone's opinion on > > electric cooling fans? Pros/cons? Personal experiences? > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > rmort at bezeqint.net > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From Allan.Thompson at ntlworld.com Tue Jun 26 12:17:56 2007 From: Allan.Thompson at ntlworld.com (Allan.Thompson) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:17:56 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Message-ID: <00d201c7b81e$533ced60$6401a8c0@Desktop> My nephew just emailed me this and thought the group might be interested... Imagine you're going to live in Portugal. You find a lovely farmhouse set on a decent plot of land. The place has been empty for 15 years... While exploring your new property you find a large barn. The door is padlocked and welded shut and it's all rusted solid. So you grind the padlock and the welds off and......... http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 26 12:19:22 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:19:22 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans In-Reply-To: <004001c7b81c$d2666730$d2c11bac@bigmort> Message-ID: This may not apply to you, but what I'd worry about is someone else driving my car, not being in the habit of manually switching on the fan (or even watching the temp gauge). It's hard enough to get them to understand the choke procedure... -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/26/07 11:01 AM, R. Martin Rogovein at rmort at bezeqint.net wrote: > I have an electric fan on my 70, but without a temp sensor - it's just wired > to a switch on the dash (DPO). > after a rad recore a few years ago, i have never had a problem with > overheating, even on 90-100 degree days. > i only switch it on on really hot days in the summer, sitting in traffic, or > sometimes on long uphill stretches on the highway from Tel Aviv to > Jerusalem, when the needle starts to climb towards H (it may well stop by > itself before it gets all the way to H, but no need to tempt fate). > RMort > Tel Aviv From frankk at intap.net Tue Jun 26 12:53:58 2007 From: frankk at intap.net (frank) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:53:58 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn References: <00d201c7b81e$533ced60$6401a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <001b01c7b823$5d02cfe0$238a0fce@D3N5Y331> Wow! I am still drooling! Don't leave us hanging. Who owns all these cars and what will happen to them all? Was worth looking at every pic. Thanks for sharing. Frank Krajewski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allan.Thompson" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn > My nephew just emailed me this and thought the group might be > interested... > > Imagine you're going to live in Portugal. > > You find a lovely farmhouse set on a decent plot of land. The place has > been > empty for 15 years... > > While exploring your new property you find a large barn. > > The door is padlocked and welded shut and it's all rusted solid. > > So you grind the padlock and the welds off and......... > > > http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm > _______________________________________________ > frankk at intap.net > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From rolindsay at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 14:07:21 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans In-Reply-To: <011c01c7b7fe$b00f2ff0$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <231237.87012.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Our mate Paul writes, > ...But unless you really do need additional cooling > through very extreme operating conditions ... it > just isn't worth the time and effort converting to > electric. Paul, you make me smile. I would almost believe that you live in England where a scorching-hot day means 70+ degrees F! :-o Of course, I'm just poking fun at you and mean no disrespect. I get called ugly names by my friends on the Ferrari list because I want my 308GTB air conditioner to work. I LIVE IN HOUSTON, FOLKS!!! Humans aren't supposed to exist in this environment! :-P All joking aside, the temperature typically hits 95 degrees F each day, all summer long - and that's over 6 months of the year. My M-B has a nice outside thermometer on-board and it works to typical German high precision. On my daily commute, it is not uncommon for the air temperature just above Houston streets to be 105 degrees F! That's the air entering the grill of our cars. Does my MG have an electric fan? No, not yet but it may as soon as I put it on the road. Please excuse me now; I have to take my 308GTB to the A/C shop. regards, rick From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Tue Jun 26 14:26:33 2007 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:26:33 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans In-Reply-To: <231237.87012.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <011c01c7b7fe$b00f2ff0$0200a8c0@Three> <231237.87012.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40b437200706261326h54fc3e75kf0a219bcf1ec6799@mail.gmail.com> Rick, when I lived in Dallas (generally hotter than Houston), I never had problems with my '74B overheating. It was basically stock (no electric fan), but minus the smog pump. On the other hand, when I took the car back to the UK, I had to block part of the radiator to get it to warm up on winter days. YMMV, and I think that (over) heating issues varied as the smog equipment changed on the B. Regards, Simon On 6/26/07, Rick Lindsay wrote: > Our mate Paul writes, > > > ...But unless you really do need additional cooling > > through very extreme operating conditions ... it > > just isn't worth the time and effort converting to > > electric. > > Paul, you make me smile. I would almost believe > that you live in England where a scorching-hot day > means 70+ degrees F! :-o Of course, I'm just poking > fun at you and mean no disrespect. I get called ugly > names by my friends on the Ferrari list because I want > my 308GTB air conditioner to work. I LIVE IN HOUSTON, > FOLKS!!! Humans aren't supposed to exist in this > environment! :-P > All joking aside, the temperature typically hits 95 > degrees F each day, all summer long - and that's over > 6 months of the year. My M-B has a nice outside > thermometer on-board and it works to typical German > high precision. On my daily commute, it is not > uncommon for the air temperature just above Houston > streets to be 105 degrees F! That's the air entering > the grill of our cars. > Does my MG have an electric fan? No, not yet but > it may as soon as I put it on the road. Please excuse > me now; I have to take my 308GTB to the A/C shop. > > regards, > > rick > _______________________________________________ > simon.d.matthews at gmail.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From Aeseeyou at aol.com Tue Jun 26 15:39:01 2007 From: Aeseeyou at aol.com (Aeseeyou at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:39:01 EDT Subject: [Mgs] British Car Show July 22, 2007 Oxnard, CA. Message-ID: On Sunday July 22nd, 2007 The Central Coast British Car Club will be hosting it's 17th Annual All British Car and 'Cycle Show from 9:00 am until 3:00 p.m. It will be at The Channel Islands Yacht Harbor at 3600 Harbor Blvd~ Oxnard, CA. 93030. For information call C. Darryl Struth at (805) 644-6211 or Don Greene at (805) 652-0330 or email: _dggreene at aol.com_ (mailto:dggreene at aol.com) or go to _www.centralcoastbritishcarclub.com_ (http://www.centralcoastbritishcarclub.com) for downloadable registration forms This year we will feature "MORGAN cars and 3-Wheelers" as the Marque of the show. The organizers of the Car Show have arranged for a brand new Morgan Aero 8 to be on display. Besides MORGANS, we expect 200 other wonderful British automobiles on display. There will be trophies given to the winners of each class. Plus Peoples Choice and Best of Show and Presidents Award. A Raffle will take place all day with prizes awarded to lucky ticket holders. You must be present to win. There will also be 1960's British Invasion Music & authentic Scottish Highlands music and dancing to entertain the crowds all day! Plus, we'll have a huge Swap Meet in the parking lot again this year! Bring in and sell your "valuable" old car parts Swap Meet booths available. Call Gary Rice (805) 644-3290 or email him at: _gary.rice at worldnet.att.net_ (mailto:gary.rice at worldnet.att.net) Don't miss this Great British Car Show..All Marques welcome. Free admission for walk in spectators. Plenty of free parking. Food and refreshments also available. July 22, 2007 from 9:00 am to 3:00 pm (Pre-registered cars will be allowed onto the Car Show site early...) So Register now and avoid having to wait until 9:00 am to enter and set up! Thanks, Central Coast British Car Club PO Box 503 Ventura, CA 93002 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From james.nazarian at gmail.com Tue Jun 26 17:42:18 2007 From: james.nazarian at gmail.com (James Nazarian) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:42:18 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Oil Issues In-Reply-To: <007c01c7b7c9$f8971970$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <005b01c7b84b$a29d6330$6400a8c0@theendindeed> Well, at this point I've had the engine out three times this year so what's one more if the pickup sucks itself onto the bottom of the sump. Just kidding. Thanks for the advice. In my case, the V8 sump is beaded along the bottom surface. There are three longitudinal beads under the pickup. Each one about 1/8 or 3/16 high. In theory, if the pickup does try to suck itself down the beads will prevent a stoppage in flow. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. LOL, James ?-----Original Message----- ?From: Paul Hunt [mailto:paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk] ?Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 4:07 AM ?To: James Nazarian; mgs; v8 ?Subject: Re: Oil Issues ? ?Glad to help, especially on a subject I know little about! ?You mention Barney, and one of the first things I recall from ?joining the MGS list was Barney's account of oil starvation at ?high revs (in his MGA), because the pick-up was too close to ?the sump bottom and stopped pulling oil through at very high ?suction rates. Just a warning, reading the bit below, the Rover ?V8 oil system *is* classed as a high flow system (rather than ?a high pressure one). ? ?PaulH. ? ?----- Original Message ----- ?> ... I also discovered that the stock pickup required 1" of ?oil in the ?> sump to cover the pickup completely. I reshaped the pickup and tube ?> to only require 1/4" of oil to cover the pickup. ? ? From james.nazarian at gmail.com Tue Jun 26 17:44:27 2007 From: james.nazarian at gmail.com (James Nazarian) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:44:27 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans In-Reply-To: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF629@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> Message-ID: <005d01c7b84b$ef480140$6400a8c0@theendindeed> I can think of one other detractor of the metal engine fan. They make a real mess of the bonnet when they explode. James ?-----Original Message----- ?From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net ?[mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gosling, Richard ?Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 9:47 AM ?To: Matthew Milkevitch; mgs at autox.team.net ?Subject: Re: [Mgs] Electric Fans ? ?Apart from the faff and expense of acquiring and correctly ?fitting the electric fan, it's got to be all pro's, no con's. ? ?The mechanical fan is at its least effective when you need it ?most, when the car is stationary and the engine is just ?ticking over. Meanwhile, when you have no need of the fan at ?all, travelling along at speed, the fan is spinning round at ?great speed, and sapping precious engine power in doing so. ? ?On the other hand, an electric fan only comes on when you need ?it, at when it is on it's working as hard as it can, whatever ?speed the car and engine are doing. Better cooling, no ?un-necessary parasitic losses. ? ?Oh, I suppose there is another con, in that an electric fan ?has more potential to fail. Unless it falls off, or the fan ?belt breaks (in which case you are screwed anyway), a ?mechanical fan can't really go wrong. ? ?Having said that, after two BGTs and one Spitfire I have still ?never bothered swapping any car I've owned to an electric fan. ? But that's purely down to the faff and expense involved... ? ? ?Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) From james.nazarian at gmail.com Tue Jun 26 17:52:10 2007 From: james.nazarian at gmail.com (James Nazarian) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:52:10 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn In-Reply-To: <00d201c7b81e$533ced60$6401a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <005e01c7b84d$03b3b510$6400a8c0@theendindeed> A couple of thoughts come to mind... 1. Holy sh$t. 2. Who has all the titles on these cars. 3. Did they transfer with the sale of the land. I could see this being terribly depressing if the finder didn't/couldn't own any of them. James ?-----Original Message----- ?From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net ?[mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allan.Thompson ?Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:18 PM ?To: mgs at autox.team.net ?Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn ? ?My nephew just emailed me this and thought the group might be ?interested... ? ? Imagine you're going to live in Portugal. ? ?You find a lovely farmhouse set on a decent plot of land. The ?place has been empty for 15 years... ? ?While exploring your new property you find a large barn. ? ?The door is padlocked and welded shut and it's all rusted solid. ? ? So you grind the padlock and the welds off and......... ? ? ?http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm ?_______________________________________________ From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 26 18:37:10 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:37:10 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans In-Reply-To: <005d01c7b84b$ef480140$6400a8c0@theendindeed> Message-ID: True. I've seen a photo of where one exited through the fender. But the mid-generation cars had plastic engine-driven fans, so they're safe. Looking at my three-bladed "propellor", it's hard to imagine it failing. The metal is twice as thick as on a typical American fan. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/26/07 4:44 PM, James Nazarian at james.nazarian at gmail.com wrote: > I can think of one other detractor of the metal engine fan. They make a > real mess of the bonnet when they explode. > > James From lrc at red4est.com Wed Jun 27 01:00:07 2007 From: lrc at red4est.com (Larry Colen) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:00:07 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] A sportscar evening Message-ID: <20070627070007.GA16606@red4est.com> While I've been waiting, first on parts, then on money, finally having time and a place, to reassemble my MG, I've been racing a '91 Spec Miata, and driving a ratty '93 Miata as my daily driver (and occasional track rat). A while back I joined a mailing list called Bay Area Miata Outlaws, which is for people who own Miatas but are interested in using them for sportier pursuits than car shows and wine and cheese tours. On my drive home this evening I was struck, not by how much the Miata reminds me of what an MG designed in the 20th century would be like, but how much the Miata drivers of today remind me of MG drivers, when our MGs were 10 - 15 years old. One girl, who doesn't make a lot of money, was trying to figure out ways of fixing all the various imperfections in her paint (chips, dings, ruined paint from bird droppings ...), and was also looking for a way to mount five point belts so that she'd be better held in place when she took her car on the track. Other guys were discussing the relative merits, and problems of various turbocharger, and intercooler kits, as well as shocks and other suspension bits. What really sparked the feeling of deja vu was the comment, after a hint on how to fix something "When you own a Miata people tell you how to fix it, with other cars, people just say to take it to the dealer". Go back in time 25 years when I was in college, and people were saying the same thing about our LBCs. Driving home over hwy 17 (a moderately twisty, 50-75MPH road (depending on the driver and the car), I caught up with a very pretty TR4. I finally pulled next to her at the light in Felton, complimented the driver and commented I hadn't seen the car before. She said she'd only had it a few weeks. In a town of a few thousand people, most of the LBC drivers know each other, or at least the cars. Even someone I've just met, I'll find I can refer to most of the cars, or owners, and they'll know who I mean. In the meantime, I've finally got the shelves (about $1000 worth of gorilla racks, plus three lateral file cabinets) up in my freshly rebuilt shed, and have started moving my car parts from the piles in my yard into the shed. I haven't done the major sorting that I want to, but it's nice to have all the parts for my new motor in one place, easily visible, in close proximity to all of my spares. -- All your apex are belong to us. Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com http://www.red4est.com/lrc From lrc at red4est.com Wed Jun 27 01:11:58 2007 From: lrc at red4est.com (Larry Colen) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:11:58 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Oil filter mount, oil cooler, accusump .... Message-ID: <20070627071158.GB16606@red4est.com> As I finish repairing my carport, I am getting closer to getting my MGBGT http://red4est.com/jasmine put back together. With the supercharger, I should probably get about 100hp to the ground out of it. When it was last running with the blower (and a few problems like cracked rings) I saw between 95 and 105 on the chassis dyno. The car will also probably see track time every couple of months, and occasional rallycross or autocross. Maybe 1,000 - 2,000 miles of hard driving a year, plus regular spirited driving around the Santa Cruz mountains. If one is not worried about maintaining originality, but is concerned with functionality, ease of use and the like, what is the best oil filter mount to use on an MGB? I've used a couple of different types of spin-on mounts, and prefer them to the canister type. I learned a painful lesson about overtightening, when I blew the o-ring where it mounted and dumped all the oil in my brand new motor on the ground. I can see that there would be various advantages in access, as well as cleanliness, if the oil filter were moved from the side of the block to a remote location (side of the engine compartment?). I have heard of people mounting oil coolers directly below the stock location, where they don't block air flow to the radiator. It seems to be fairly straightforward, without much cutting required. How much luck have people had with this? What sort of luck have people had with accusumps? They seem like they'd do well for getting pressure to the bearings on startup, and would prevent pressure loss on long turns on the racetrack. -- All your apex are belong to us. Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com http://www.red4est.com/lrc From r.gosling at penspen.com Wed Jun 27 02:20:42 2007 From: r.gosling at penspen.com (Gosling, Richard) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:20:42 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Message-ID: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF62C@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> Another thought from me: Whatever he paid for the land, the contents of the barn must be worth at least 10x that!!! If he has trouble re-homing any of those, I'll take a couple off his hands. Nothing too exotic, I don't have the patience or the money to track down parts for real exotica or old stuff - maybe a Lotus (7 or Elan), and the Alfa Giulia Sprint Special, that's a truly beautiful car. That is just mind-blowing. Eclectic mix of really old and more recent, rare and not-so-rare, high performance, luxury, and basic. Wow. Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) ________________________________________________________________________ This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received it by mistake please notify the sender by return E-mail and delete this message from your system. Any unauthorised use or dissemination of this message in whole or in part is strictly prohibited. Please note that E-mails are susceptible to change. The Penspen Group shall not be liable for the improper or incomplete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt or damage to your system. The Penspen Group does not guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained or that this communication is free of viruses, interceptions or interference. The following UK companies within the Penspen Group and any electronic communication sent on behalf of any of them, are subject to the provisions of the UK Companies Act 1985; PENSPEN HOLDINGS LIMITED (Company Number : 980600) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) PENSPEN LIMITED (Company Number: 584446) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) (Unipen, Penspen Integrity and Andrew Palmer & Associates are operating divisions of Penspen Limited and Spencer & Partners and Pencol are trade names of Penspen Limited) LIBRA TECHNICAL SERVICES LIMITED (Company Number: 1874430) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) MANCHESTER JETLINE LIMITED (Company Number: 2392093) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 537 8635 08) From wbmcleod at cox.net Wed Jun 27 02:50:56 2007 From: wbmcleod at cox.net (William McLeod) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:50:56 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn In-Reply-To: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF62C@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> References: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF62C@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> Message-ID: <95D1F4A2-464F-434C-9E25-059230612FFC@cox.net> What puzzles me is that this story surfaced at least a year ago, complete with pictures, but I have never seen a follow-up of any kind.... Bill On Jun 27, 2007, at 1:20 AM, Gosling, Richard wrote: > Another thought from me: > > Whatever he paid for the land, the contents of the barn must be > worth at > least 10x that!!! From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com Wed Jun 27 05:01:58 2007 From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:01:58 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Oil filter mount, oil cooler, accusump .... In-Reply-To: <20070627071158.GB16606@red4est.com> References: <20070627071158.GB16606@red4est.com> Message-ID: <75D50EC8-FE38-440A-AF9E-4A6315B885E0@trebelhorn.com> I've moved my oil cooler to the lower location, behind the valence. It took two cuts with a holesaw and a little dressing of the edges, two grommets like the ones where the oil cooler lines pass through the radiator support, and longer bolts -- I think they're 2". And replace the oil cooler hoses with the later ones that are straight on the cooler end. The original oil cooler on my car did not have upper mounting ears, but my replacement does. It's reversable, and it cleans up area in front of the rad. I'm also running an oil cooler thermostat; with this setup I have no complaints about cooling when flogging the car in 100 degrees or commuting in 20 degree weather. (knock on wood.) And cutting the oil cooler lines for the 'stat gives you the flexibility for the slightly longer distance to the lowered cooler. So with that, I've had good luck, to answer your question directly. It's cheap, simple, and appears effective. Best of luck, Matt On Jun 27, 2007, at 3:11 AM, Larry Colen wrote: > As I finish repairing my carport, I am getting closer to getting my > MGBGT http://red4est.com/jasmine put back together. With the > supercharger, I should probably get about 100hp to the ground out of > it. When it was last running with the blower (and a few problems like > cracked rings) I saw between 95 and 105 on the chassis dyno. The car > will also probably see track time every couple of months, and > occasional rallycross or autocross. Maybe 1,000 - 2,000 miles of hard > driving a year, plus regular spirited driving around the Santa Cruz > mountains. > > If one is not worried about maintaining originality, but is concerned > with functionality, ease of use and the like, what is the best oil > filter mount to use on an MGB? > > I've used a couple of different types of spin-on mounts, and prefer > them to the canister type. I learned a painful lesson about > overtightening, when I blew the o-ring where it mounted and dumped all > the oil in my brand new motor on the ground. > > I can see that there would be various advantages in access, as well as > cleanliness, if the oil filter were moved from the side of the block > to a remote location (side of the engine compartment?). > > I have heard of people mounting oil coolers directly below the stock > location, where they don't block air flow to the radiator. It seems to > be fairly straightforward, without much cutting required. How much > luck have people had with this? > > What sort of luck have people had with accusumps? They seem like > they'd do well for getting pressure to the bearings on startup, and > would prevent pressure loss on long turns on the racetrack. > > > -- > All your apex are belong to us. > Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com http:// > www.red4est.com/lrc > _______________________________________________ > matt.lists at trebelhorn.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From mgbob at juno.com Wed Jun 27 06:14:53 2007 From: mgbob at juno.com (Bob Howard) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:14:53 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans Message-ID: <20070627.082255.3116.5.MGBOB@juno.com> Max, It is hard to imagine one failing, but it's worthwhile to inspect the fans from time to time. Fans on the TCs and TDs are two narrow pieces of flat metal that cross at the hub. Made as thick or thicker than millions of American fans, each has a small reinforcing pad. Yet, surprisingly, the blades have been known to break. I've been in an MG when a sparkplug blew out and dented the bonnet. Have not experienced a broken fan blade, but imagine it's at least as exciting. Bob On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:37:10 -0700 Max Heim writes: > True. I've seen a photo of where one exited through the fender. But > the > mid-generation cars had plastic engine-driven fans, so they're > safe. > > Looking at my three-bladed "propellor", it's hard to imagine it > failing. The > metal is twice as thick as on a typical American fan. > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires From duvallcom at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 27 09:08:06 2007 From: duvallcom at sbcglobal.net (Mike Duvall) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:08:06 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11D9BC24-1A8B-4301-8C99-3B4D332FA8C5@sbcglobal.net> I bet they are all stolen! Keep us updated. I curious what the laws down there say and how it gets handled. Mike > My nephew just emailed me this and thought the group might be > interested... > > Imagine you're going to live in Portugal. > > You find a lovely farmhouse set on a decent plot of land. The place > has been > empty for 15 years... > > While exploring your new property you find a large barn. > > The door is padlocked and welded shut and it's all rusted solid. > > So you grind the padlock and the welds off and......... > > > http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm From rowdon at sonoma-county.org Wed Jun 27 09:08:59 2007 From: rowdon at sonoma-county.org (DON SCOTT) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:08:59 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] unsubscribing help Message-ID: I am taking a few days off from work and need to unsubscribe from the list. (I still get it at home.) I am having no success at stopping the subscription, and I am following the rules as outlined. Anyone out there have any tips? Thanks, Don Scott From ptrmgb at gmail.com Wed Jun 27 09:19:10 2007 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:19:10 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] unsubscribing help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5b0769cb0706270819w40987023laa3c217005682c3d@mail.gmail.com> Do you have your mailman password? It was sent to you when Mark swtiched from majordomo to mailman list managers. On 6/27/07, DON SCOTT wrote: > > I am taking a few days off from work and need to unsubscribe from the > list. (I still get it at home.) > I am having no success at stopping the subscription, and I am following > the rules as outlined. Anyone out there have any tips? > Thanks, > Don Scott > _______________________________________________ > ptrmgb at gmail.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From yd3 at nvc.net Wed Jun 27 11:28:04 2007 From: yd3 at nvc.net (Bullwinkle) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:28:04 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans In-Reply-To: <20070627.082255.3116.5.MGBOB@juno.com> Message-ID: <<>> I've had a TD loose a blade out in nowhere Montana. Cruising along nicely at about 60 MPH when "Bang" and then terrible vibration. Quick shut down. Pop the bonnet, but nothing was initially visible. Start up and vibration. Then my brother spotted only three fan blades. The broken one had hit the frame going out the bottom. We removed the other half of the offending blade and continued. The car is still running with only on blade. Blake <<>> Max, It is hard to imagine one failing, but it's worthwhile to inspect the fans from time to time. Fans on the TCs and TDs are two narrow pieces of flat metal that cross at the hub. Made as thick or thicker than millions of American fans, each has a small reinforcing pad. Yet, surprisingly, the blades have been known to break. I've been in an MG when a sparkplug blew out and dented the bonnet. Have not experienced a broken fan blade, but imagine it's at least as exciting. Bob From barrie at look.ca Wed Jun 27 11:24:42 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:24:42 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find In-Reply-To: <11D9BC24-1A8B-4301-8C99-3B4D332FA8C5@sbcglobal.net> References: <11D9BC24-1A8B-4301-8C99-3B4D332FA8C5@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: I would hazard a guess that they were not stolen! The collection is far too eclectic. Who would go out and steal single seater race cars, old rusty heaps with bits missing, or old American rubbish and stash them. Trade ins maybe, or cars rescued from scrap yards - Remember the Bugatti Royale was saved from a scrap yard ! At 11:08 AM 6/27/2007, Mike Duvall wrote: >I bet they are all stolen! Keep us updated. I curious what the laws >down there say and how it gets handled. > >Mike > > > > My nephew just emailed me this and thought the group might be > > interested... > > > > Imagine you're going to live in Portugal. > > > > You find a lovely farmhouse set on a decent plot of land. The place > > has been > > empty for 15 years... > > > > While exploring your new property you find a large barn. > > > > The door is padlocked and welded shut and it's all rusted solid. > > > > So you grind the padlock and the welds off and......... > > > > > > http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm >_______________________________________________ >barrie at look.ca > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From GB127167 at ncr.com Wed Jun 27 12:03:48 2007 From: GB127167 at ncr.com (Brinkman, Gerardo V) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:03:48 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] It's come time (Scimitar for sale) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: After 25 years of ownership, it's time to sell my Scimitar. The main reason is that I kind of lost interest in it - I have not driven it for 2 years and it needs to go to some one who at least will drive it, so that it does not deteriorate any more and becomes undriveable. My BIG question is: What price? I have no idea what a fair market value would be, my thinking is to price it 10% above a similar TVR of similar vintage. I'd like to hear other's opinions. Obligatory MG content: the Scimitar shares door handles, wiper motor and wheels with an MGB-GT !!!! Gerry From pchast at francomm.com Wed Jun 27 12:12:27 2007 From: pchast at francomm.com (Peter Chast) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:12:27 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: <11D9BC24-1A8B-4301-8C99-3B4D332FA8C5@sbcglobal.net> References: <11D9BC24-1A8B-4301-8C99-3B4D332FA8C5@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: I wonder........ As you look at the pictures. The cars ane not uniformly dirty. Some have hand prints like they were recently pushed. The floor looks clean with no footprints. The walls and the heating system is clean...................... a bunch of things make me suspicious. Perhaps a few car clubs got together with a breaker yard and................. Pete On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:08:06 -0400, Mike Duvall wrote: > > I bet they are all stolen! Keep us updated. I curious what the laws > down there say and how it gets handled. > > Mike > > >> My nephew just emailed me this and thought the group might be >> interested... >> >> Imagine you're going to live in Portugal. >> >> You find a lovely farmhouse set on a decent plot of land. The place >> has been >> empty for 15 years... >> >> While exploring your new property you find a large barn. >> >> The door is padlocked and welded shut and it's all rusted solid. >> >> So you grind the padlock and the welds off and......... >> >> >> http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm > _______________________________________________ > pchast at francomm.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From rowdon at sonoma-county.org Wed Jun 27 12:17:30 2007 From: rowdon at sonoma-county.org (DON SCOTT) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:17:30 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? Message-ID: why bother???? Has anyone Snopesed it? If not, maybe someone should submit it for their review. >>> "Peter Chast" 6/27/2007 11:12:27 AM >>> I wonder........ As you look at the pictures. The cars ane not uniformly dirty. Some have hand prints like they were recently pushed. The floor looks clean with no footprints. The walls and the heating system is clean...................... a bunch of things make me suspicious. Perhaps a few car clubs got together with a breaker yard and................. Pete On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:08:06 -0400, Mike Duvall wrote: > > I bet they are all stolen! Keep us updated. I curious what the laws > down there say and how it gets handled. > > Mike > > >> My nephew just emailed me this and thought the group might be >> interested... >> >> Imagine you're going to live in Portugal. >> >> You find a lovely farmhouse set on a decent plot of land. The place >> has been >> empty for 15 years... >> >> While exploring your new property you find a large barn. >> >> The door is padlocked and welded shut and it's all rusted solid. >> >> So you grind the padlock and the welds off and......... >> >> >> http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm > _____ > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ _______________________________________________ rowdon at sonoma-county.org Edit your replies Mgs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From barrie at look.ca Wed Jun 27 13:16:17 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:16:17 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: References: <11D9BC24-1A8B-4301-8C99-3B4D332FA8C5@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Of course they are not uniformly dirty. Dust, bird droppings, rain from roof leaks. condensation, and assorted similar stuff is not uniform. And the cars could have been stored many years apart...and be already dirty! Floor is not clean and there is bound to be a lot of disturbance by several people not just the photographer. I doubt anyone would stage such a display because it serves no purpose At 02:12 PM 6/27/2007, Peter Chast wrote: >I wonder........ > >As you look at the pictures. The cars ane not uniformly dirty. Some have >hand prints like they were recently pushed. The floor looks clean with no >footprints. The walls and the heating system is clean...................... > >a bunch of things make me suspicious. Perhaps a few car clubs got together >with a breaker yard and................. > >Pete > >On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:08:06 -0400, Mike Duvall >wrote: > > > > > I bet they are all stolen! Keep us updated. I curious what the laws > > down there say and how it gets handled. > > > > Mike > > > > > >> My nephew just emailed me this and thought the group might be > >> interested... > >> > >> Imagine you're going to live in Portugal. > >> > >> You find a lovely farmhouse set on a decent plot of land. The place > >> has been > >> empty for 15 years... > >> > >> While exploring your new property you find a large barn. > >> > >> The door is padlocked and welded shut and it's all rusted solid. > >> > >> So you grind the padlock and the welds off and......... > >> > >> > >> http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm > > _______________________________________________ > > pchast at francomm.com > > > > Edit your replies > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > > > > > > >-- >Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >_______________________________________________ >barrie at look.ca > >Edit your replies > >Mgs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From rolindsay at yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 13:25:17 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <216651.64655.qm@web82305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Agreed. I suspect the cars are as found. They are a nice mix of new(ish) and old, LHD and RHD, etc. The romance surrounding the 'find' may be fanciful lore but the collection of iron is impressive. List-member Rui Gigante lives in Portugal - if the storage facility really is in Portugal. Perhaps he has insight? rick --- Barrie Robinson wrote: > Of course they are not uniformly dirty. Dust, bird > droppings, rain > from roof leaks. condensation, and assorted similar > stuff is not > uniform. And the cars could have been stored many > years apart...and > be already dirty! Floor is not clean and there is > bound to be a lot > of disturbance by several people not just the > photographer. I doubt > anyone would stage such a display because it serves > no purpose > > > At 02:12 PM 6/27/2007, Peter Chast wrote: > >I wonder........ > > > >As you look at the pictures. The cars ane not > uniformly dirty. Some have > >hand prints like they were recently pushed. The > floor looks clean with no > >footprints. The walls and the heating system is > clean...................... > > > >a bunch of things make me suspicious. Perhaps a few > car clubs got together > >with a breaker yard and................. > > > >Pete > > > >On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:08:06 -0400, Mike Duvall > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > I bet they are all stolen! Keep us updated. I > curious what the laws > > > down there say and how it gets handled. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > >> My nephew just emailed me this and thought the > group might be > > >> interested... > > >> > > >> Imagine you're going to live in Portugal. > > >> > > >> You find a lovely farmhouse set on a decent > plot of land. The place > > >> has been > > >> empty for 15 years... > > >> > > >> While exploring your new property you find a > large barn. > > >> > > >> The door is padlocked and welded shut and it's > all rusted solid. > > >> > > >> So you grind the padlock and the welds off > and......... > > >> > > >> > > >> http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pchast at francomm.com > > > > > > Edit your replies > > > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: > http://www.opera.com/mail/ > >_______________________________________________ > >barrie at look.ca > > > >Edit your replies > > > >Mgs at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > Regards > Barrie > > Barrie Robinson > (705) 721-9060 > http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm > _______________________________________________ > rolindsay at yahoo.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 27 13:28:51 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:28:51 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I first heard about this and saw photos in February. Since then they have probably had time to push a few cars around, clean up, etc. Even in those photos a few of the later model cars were much cleaner, but all that means is they were put in storage much more recently. No one is saying this is an untouched time capsule from the 1960s -- it's just somebody's car collection, acquired over many years, and forgotten. The last car could have been rolled into the barn in 1995, for all we know. How long does it take for a padlock to rust in Portugal (briny sea air and all that)? What is curious is the lack of follow-up stories. But it may be tangled in legal hassles. on 6/27/07 11:12 AM, Peter Chast at pchast at francomm.com wrote: > I wonder........ > > As you look at the pictures. The cars ane not uniformly dirty. Some have > hand prints like they were recently pushed. The floor looks clean with no > footprints. The walls and the heating system is clean...................... > > a bunch of things make me suspicious. Perhaps a few car clubs got together > with a breaker yard and................. > > Pete > -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires From itswonderful at comcast.net Wed Jun 27 13:39:08 2007 From: itswonderful at comcast.net (Frank P. Marrone) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:39:08 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003e01c7b8f2$d4f0dd60$0801a8c0@FPMengineering> http://www.classiccar.com/garage/blog/index.php?/archives/241-Update-Portuga l-Barn-Find.html Frank 1972 MGB-GT 3.1L-V6/5 speed 1964 Sunbeam Tiger > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Max Heim > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:29 PM > To: MG List > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? > > I first heard about this and saw photos in February. Since then they have > probably had time to push a few cars around, clean up, etc. > > Even in those photos a few of the later model cars were much cleaner, but > all that means is they were put in storage much more recently. No one is > saying this is an untouched time capsule from the 1960s -- it's just > somebody's car collection, acquired over many years, and forgotten. The > last > car could have been rolled into the barn in 1995, for all we know. How > long > does it take for a padlock to rust in Portugal (briny sea air and all > that)? > > What is curious is the lack of follow-up stories. But it may be tangled in > legal hassles. > > > > on 6/27/07 11:12 AM, Peter Chast at pchast at francomm.com wrote: > > > I wonder........ > > > > As you look at the pictures. The cars ane not uniformly dirty. Some have > > hand prints like they were recently pushed. The floor looks clean with > no > > footprints. The walls and the heating system is > clean...................... > > > > a bunch of things make me suspicious. Perhaps a few car clubs got > together > > with a breaker yard and................. > > > > Pete > > > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > _______________________________________________ > itswonderful at comcast.net > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 27 14:07:12 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:07:12 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: <003e01c7b8f2$d4f0dd60$0801a8c0@FPMengineering> Message-ID: Ah.... A collection, but not forgotten. Just an eccentric, who eventually felt compelled to "leak" his secret. But not, apparently, enough to let anyone visit it personally. This kind of miserly hoarding is all too familiar -- the old guy down the road with the wonderful old cars rusting away in his pasture... "I'll never sell them...I'll fix 'em some day"... Then, by the time he dies, they have rusted into memories... At least these are under cover and reasonably well protected, though I worry about the exposed upholstery under all that filth. It's not like there is anything enormously valuable or exotic here (no Bugattis, Duesenbergs or SWB Berlinettas), but there are a lot of desirable older cars that might be better enjoyed as drivers than moldering away in the shadows. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/27/07 12:39 PM, Frank P. Marrone at itswonderful at comcast.net wrote: > http://www.classiccar.com/garage/blog/index.php?/archives/241-Update-Portuga > l-Barn-Find.html > > > Frank > 1972 MGB-GT 3.1L-V6/5 speed > 1964 Sunbeam Tiger > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Max Heim >> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:29 PM >> To: MG List >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? >> >> I first heard about this and saw photos in February. Since then they have >> probably had time to push a few cars around, clean up, etc. >> >> Even in those photos a few of the later model cars were much cleaner, but >> all that means is they were put in storage much more recently. No one is >> saying this is an untouched time capsule from the 1960s -- it's just >> somebody's car collection, acquired over many years, and forgotten. The >> last >> car could have been rolled into the barn in 1995, for all we know. How >> long >> does it take for a padlock to rust in Portugal (briny sea air and all >> that)? >> >> What is curious is the lack of follow-up stories. But it may be tangled in >> legal hassles. >> >> >> >> on 6/27/07 11:12 AM, Peter Chast at pchast at francomm.com wrote: >> >>> I wonder........ >>> >>> As you look at the pictures. The cars ane not uniformly dirty. Some have >>> hand prints like they were recently pushed. The floor looks clean with >> no >>> footprints. The walls and the heating system is >> clean...................... >>> >>> a bunch of things make me suspicious. Perhaps a few car clubs got >> together >>> with a breaker yard and................. >>> >>> Pete From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Wed Jun 27 14:24:41 2007 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:24:41 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn References: <00d201c7b81e$533ced60$6401a8c0@Desktop> <001b01c7b823$5d02cfe0$238a0fce@D3N5Y331> Message-ID: <00b701c7b8f9$3130d5c0$1e00a8c0@uw471de61b465c> I might do some detour from my holiday destination in France and towards this interesting destination... Where is this located? I recognize a 1960 6 cyl Opel Katitan like my father had - his 1st new car since the 2nd world war ended... Cheers, Hans 71 BGT ----- Original Message ----- From: "frank" To: "Allan.Thompson" Cc: "MG List" Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Old Barn > Wow! I am still drooling! Don't leave us hanging. Who owns all these cars > and what will happen to them all? Was worth looking at every pic. Thanks > for > sharing. > Frank Krajewski From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Wed Jun 27 14:27:09 2007 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:27:09 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find References: <11D9BC24-1A8B-4301-8C99-3B4D332FA8C5@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <00c901c7b8f9$896566c0$1e00a8c0@uw471de61b465c> Well the license plates are typical Portugese I can confoirm that! Cheers, Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Duvall" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:08 PM Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find >I bet they are all stolen! Keep us updated. I curious what the laws > down there say and how it gets handled. > > Mike > > >> My nephew just emailed me this and thought the group might be >> interested... >> >> Imagine you're going to live in Portugal. >> >> You find a lovely farmhouse set on a decent plot of land. The place >> has been >> empty for 15 years... >> >> While exploring your new property you find a large barn. >> >> The door is padlocked and welded shut and it's all rusted solid. >> >> So you grind the padlock and the welds off and......... >> >> >> http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm From frankk at intap.net Wed Jun 27 15:12:11 2007 From: frankk at intap.net (frank) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:12:11 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? References: <003e01c7b8f2$d4f0dd60$0801a8c0@FPMengineering> Message-ID: <001c01c7b8ff$d596f580$338a0fce@D3N5Y331> I checked out that website but couldn't find the Portugal update. Is it my lack of computer knowledge? Frank Krajewski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank P. Marrone" To: "'MG List'" Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? > http://www.classiccar.com/garage/blog/index.php?/archives/241-Update-Portuga > l-Barn-Find.html > > > Frank > 1972 MGB-GT 3.1L-V6/5 speed > 1964 Sunbeam Tiger From doddk at mossmotors.com Wed Jun 27 15:37:38 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:37:38 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C64CE6F@kb1.mossmotors.com> Max: I'll make you a deal on a bunch of MGAs that are rusting away in my pasture. If you are interested, give me yell. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Max Heim > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:07 PM > To: MG List > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? > > Ah.... A collection, but not forgotten. Just an eccentric, who eventually > felt compelled to "leak" his secret. But not, apparently, enough to let > anyone visit it personally. > > This kind of miserly hoarding is all too familiar -- the old guy down the > road with the wonderful old cars rusting away in his pasture... "I'll > never > sell them...I'll fix 'em some day"... Then, by the time he dies, they have > rusted into memories... > > At least these are under cover and reasonably well protected, though I > worry > about the exposed upholstery under all that filth. > > It's not like there is anything enormously valuable or exotic here (no > Bugattis, Duesenbergs or SWB Berlinettas), but there are a lot of > desirable > older cars that might be better enjoyed as drivers than moldering away in > the shadows. > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires From dynajim at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 27 15:43:59 2007 From: dynajim at bellsouth.net (dynajim) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:43:59 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Barn in Portugal Message-ID: I Suppose I'll Chime in on the Cars in the Barn. Just for the Record, I "Snoped" the Subject and Got No Results? As Much as I Hope it is True(Isn't That Everyone's Dream?), I Still Suspect it's a Hoax. But, Who Knows? This May Actually be the Real Thing? From ladaniels at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 27 16:16:50 2007 From: ladaniels at sbcglobal.net (Larry Daniels) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:16:50 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? References: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C64CE6F@kb1.mossmotors.com> Message-ID: <049601c7b908$dd55e7a0$6401a8c0@Larry> It is quite possible that this is not a hoax. Look at this article of a similar find in De Pere, WI. This sort of thing does happen. http://tinyurl.com/avs24 Larry Daniels 79 MGB LE 60 Bugeye 67 Austin A60 Pickup (Ute) "You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape." From doddk at mossmotors.com Wed Jun 27 16:40:53 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:40:53 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: <049601c7b908$dd55e7a0$6401a8c0@Larry> Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C64CEA4@kb1.mossmotors.com> I was contacted on a similar "barn find" in Los Angeles about 3 years ago. Someone bought a building in LA and found that the back storage area was full of British cars. The story I got was that there was a one man restoration shop run by an Englishman out of the back area. The man disappeared a number of years ago and the cars just sat there. Perhaps he went back to the UK? When the building sold, as is, the cars became the problem of the new property owner. He contacted me in the hopes of finding a buyer for the vehicles. I gave him the names of some British car specialists down in LA and that is the last I heard of the deal. >From what I remember there were about 20 cars in all including MGs and TRs. It happens closer to home too. My wife and I bought a house and property up in Ojai, about 10 miles from Ventura in Southern Ca. The 1/2 acre next door had been owned by a guy who died owing lots of taxes. His family didn't want anything to do with the property due to the tax liability, so the bank foreclosed and put it up for auction. We bid on the property, but came up short. There were over 50 cars on the property! Including two mid 60s Lincoln suicide doors, a Thunderbird two seater cvt. Volvo P1800, two TR4As and over 20 Rovers including a 109 station wagon, two 1980 SD1s and a couple of V8 powered P6Bs. Just before we moved, a crane came onto our soon to be property and picked up the Thunderbird, lifted it out of the yard and then disappeared. An enclosed trailer full of V8 engines also disappeared a couple of days before the new owner moved in. I ended up buying the four V8 powered Rovers from the new owner for $100 each. Most of the American iron found new homes along with the P1800, the Triumphs and the 109 Landrover. The rest of the cars including the Rovers were crushed. Let's face it. There are a number of people in the hobby who have no immediate family, are reclusive and accumulate lots of dead cars. It's no wonder that barn finds happen on a fairly regular basis. Now if I could just find something more intriguing than Rovers I'd be set. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Larry Daniels > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:17 PM > To: MG List > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? > > It is quite possible that this is not a hoax. > > Look at this article of a similar find in De Pere, WI. This sort of thing > does happen. > > > http://tinyurl.com/avs24 > > Larry Daniels > > 79 MGB LE > 60 Bugeye > 67 Austin A60 Pickup (Ute) From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 27 17:20:49 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:20:49 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C64CE6F@kb1.mossmotors.com> Message-ID: Heh heh... Then they'd be rusting in MY pasture... -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/27/07 2:37 PM, Dodd, Kelvin at doddk at mossmotors.com wrote: > > > Max: > > I'll make you a deal on a bunch of MGAs that are rusting away in my > pasture. > > If you are interested, give me yell. > > > > > > > Kelvin Dodd > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] > On >> Behalf Of Max Heim >> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:07 PM >> To: MG List >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? >> >> Ah.... A collection, but not forgotten. Just an eccentric, who > eventually >> felt compelled to "leak" his secret. But not, apparently, enough to > let >> anyone visit it personally. >> >> This kind of miserly hoarding is all too familiar -- the old guy down > the >> road with the wonderful old cars rusting away in his pasture... "I'll >> never >> sell them...I'll fix 'em some day"... Then, by the time he dies, they > have >> rusted into memories... >> >> At least these are under cover and reasonably well protected, though I >> worry >> about the exposed upholstery under all that filth. >> >> It's not like there is anything enormously valuable or exotic here (no >> Bugattis, Duesenbergs or SWB Berlinettas), but there are a lot of >> desirable >> older cars that might be better enjoyed as drivers than moldering away > in >> the shadows. >> >> >> -- >> >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires From cattias at ucsc.edu Wed Jun 27 17:44:04 2007 From: cattias at ucsc.edu (Chris Attias) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:44:04 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? Message-ID: The best explanation of the Portuguese collection I've seen was in Sports Car Market a few months back. See: http://www.sportscarmarket.com/articles/archives/1110 -- Chris Attias Felton, CA '64 MGB From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 27 17:50:17 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:50:17 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C64CEA4@kb1.mossmotors.com> Message-ID: Just for fun, here is the list that SCM magazine compiled from the photos... So, What9s In There? All the cars are dusty and the lighting is pretty poor, but searching through photos of these cars on various web sites, I was able to identify a fair number. Here is a partial list: Abarth 1300 Scorpione Alfa GTV Alfa 1900 SS Alfa Bertone Alfa Giuiletta Alfa Giulietta Sprint Alfa Giulia Sprint Speciale Alfa Sud 1.5 Austin A30 Austin A40 Somerset Austin Healey Sprite Austin Mini Cooper Austin Mini Cooper S BMW 2002 BMW 1800 BMW 501 V8 Sedan BMW Isetta Bristol 404 Saloon 1931 Chrysler CD Citrokn Traction Avant Datsun 240Z DKW 1000SP Fiat Cabriolet Fiat Topolino Fiat 500 Fiat 508 Balilla Ford Cortina Ford Taunus Hillman Imp Californian Lancia Aurelia B20 2+2 Lancia Aurelia B24 Lancia Appia Lancia Flaminia Zagato Lancia Flaminia Coupe Lotus Elan DHC Lotus Elan FHC Lotus Elan +2 Lotus Europa Lotus Super 7 Series IV MG Midget MG Magnette Matra Djet 1923-4 Maxwell Mini Moke Nash Metropolitan Opel GT Opel Rekord Peugeot 202 Peugeot 404 Cabriolet Peugeot 505 Cabriolet 1939 Plymouth Porsche 356B Porsche 356C Renault Dauphine Rover P5 Saloon Rover P6 Saab 93 Simca Coupe de Ville Singer Gazelle Steyr Puch Triumph TR4 Volvo PV444 VW Beetle Dozens of American sedans, from a 1932 Ford 2-door sedan to 1970s Olds Cutlasses; Dozens of 1950s and 1960s Mercedes sedans; A couple of Formula race cars; There may be more than one example of each of the cars listed above. on 6/27/07 3:40 PM, Dodd, Kelvin at doddk at mossmotors.com wrote: > I was contacted on a similar "barn find" in Los Angeles about 3 years > ago. > > Someone bought a building in LA and found that the back storage area was > full of British cars. > > The story I got was that there was a one man restoration shop run by an > Englishman out of the back area. The man disappeared a number of years > ago and the cars just sat there. Perhaps he went back to the UK? > > When the building sold, as is, the cars became the problem of the new > property owner. He contacted me in the hopes of finding a buyer for the > vehicles. I gave him the names of some British car specialists down in > LA and that is the last I heard of the deal. > >> From what I remember there were about 20 cars in all including MGs and > TRs. > > > It happens closer to home too. My wife and I bought a house and property > up in Ojai, about 10 miles from Ventura in Southern Ca. The 1/2 acre > next door had been owned by a guy who died owing lots of taxes. His > family didn't want anything to do with the property due to the tax > liability, so the bank foreclosed and put it up for auction. We bid on > the property, but came up short. > > There were over 50 cars on the property! Including two mid 60s Lincoln > suicide doors, a Thunderbird two seater cvt. Volvo P1800, two TR4As and > over 20 Rovers including a 109 station wagon, two 1980 SD1s and a couple > of V8 powered P6Bs. > > Just before we moved, a crane came onto our soon to be property and > picked up the Thunderbird, lifted it out of the yard and then > disappeared. > > An enclosed trailer full of V8 engines also disappeared a couple of days > before the new owner moved in. > > I ended up buying the four V8 powered Rovers from the new owner for $100 > each. Most of the American iron found new homes along with the P1800, > the Triumphs and the 109 Landrover. The rest of the cars including the > Rovers were crushed. > > Let's face it. There are a number of people in the hobby who have no > immediate family, are reclusive and accumulate lots of dead cars. > > It's no wonder that barn finds happen on a fairly regular basis. Now if > I could just find something more intriguing than Rovers I'd be set. > > > Kelvin Dodd -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires From dynajim at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 27 18:28:48 2007 From: dynajim at bellsouth.net (dynajim) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 20:28:48 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? Message-ID: Well, I Keep Wondering, "WHY CAN'T I FIND ONE of THESE DEALS!!" (Sigh) Dynajim- '72 Midget From Aeseeyou at aol.com Wed Jun 27 22:43:05 2007 From: Aeseeyou at aol.com (Aeseeyou at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:43:05 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? Message-ID: Kelvin, There a fellow, who lives up at the end of Soule Rd. in Ojai, that still owns every car he's ever had. He has never sold any of his cars. Plus he also owns about 100 others. I counted seven XKE's, a 1956 Jaguar Mk.1 and two XK-120's, a XK-140 about 6 MK 7's and Mk. 8's-and 3 Mk 10's. A couple of Jensen Interceptors, plus about 10 or so MG's (TD's and MGA's and B's) He also has lots of early American cars (Packards, Buicks Fords, etc.) Our club took a drive up to see his collection about 5 years ago..He's wealthy and has no need to sell or get rid of anything but says that each year it's a pain to mow the grass and keep the weeds down around them. We saw 1 1946 Ford coupe that he'd built inside a room and the only way to get it out would be to knock out a wall as it's fully enclosed! The things some people do... Albert Escalante ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From barrie at look.ca Wed Jun 27 23:25:35 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 01:25:35 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Background image Message-ID: Some while ag I sent a file which could be used as a background. It had all sorts of marque logos. I seem to have mislaid my own copy - Can someone please send it back to me? Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Thu Jun 28 00:07:06 2007 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:07:06 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Background image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40b437200706272307i684d8abcs2bcc8ed1992c0585@mail.gmail.com> Barrie, the list software strips attachments, so I doubt that anyone has the file -- unless you sent it as a link? Regards, Simon On 6/27/07, Barrie Robinson wrote: > Some while ag I sent a file which could be used as a background. It > had all sorts of marque logos. I seem to have mislaid my own copy - > Can someone please send it back to me? > > Regards > Barrie > > Barrie Robinson > (705) 721-9060 > http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm > _______________________________________________ > simon.d.matthews at gmail.com > > Edit your replies > > Mgs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs From mgrick at mgcars.org.uk Thu Jun 28 04:36:33 2007 From: mgrick at mgcars.org.uk (Rick Brown) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 06:36:33 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Background image References: Message-ID: <002301c7b970$332c5e90$6501a8c0@RicksPC> Barrie I have a background up on one of my websites perhaps it is the same one? Let me know and Ill send it to you http://www.britishcarclub.net Rick Webmaster for: ___________________________________________________________ http://www.mgcars.org.uk/namgbr - The North American MGB Register http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgcouncil - North American Council of MG Registers http://www.britishcarclub.net - The Suncoast Classic MG Club and Nature Coast English Car Club ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrie Robinson" To: ; Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 01:25 Subject: [Mgs] Background image > Some while ag I sent a file which could be used as a background. It > had all sorts of marque logos. I seem to have mislaid my own copy - > Can someone please send it back to me? > > Regards > Barrie > > Barrie Robinson > (705) 721-9060 > http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From rolindsay at yahoo.com Thu Jun 28 06:46:32 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Brake repairs started Message-ID: <590810.74335.qm@web82314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Troopers, Interesting information has come to light. I talked to my '70 MGB's PO yesterday and asked him the history of the brakes on the car I bought from him. (When I got the car the brakes were dead.) I wanted to know why. You know, the 'Diagnose BEFORE surgery' idea. He told me that they just failed on him when driving the car and he had to "pump them up to get stopped." Towed it home and hadn't driven it since. Okay, no failure-mode information there, just a report of failure. I then asked him if the fluid level had been dropping. Answer: "Dunno, never checked it." Upon examination, I discovered the reservoir so low that air was entering the system. There was no evidence of having been topped-up recently (cap dirty and kinda stuck on). Last night I began pulling wheels looking for wet slave cylinders. I found none. The master cylinder is also clean and dry. At this point I am thinking that there may be no mechanical reason for the system failure. The PO may have just run the fluid level down so low that air entered the system. Then again, the piston seals in the MC may be damaged. Okay, now for repairs. I have rebuilt part of the pedal box at the master cylinders. http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0644.JPG shows the newly refreshed pivot and linkage. Here's how it looked before http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0633.JPG . I don't want to disassemble the whole pedal box because I don't want to break the hydraulic connections. I just plan to carefully brush paint the surface-rusted areas with POR15. That work has already begun, as you may detect. I have found that I need to replace the front rotors. They have been worn and/or turned beyond their minimum thickness, as seen here http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0649.JPG and here http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0653.JPG . Conversely, the rear shoes and drums look just fine. I suspect they have been poorly adjusted for ages and haven't contributed much to braking. The handbrake presently does nothing. Here's a look at the driver's side with the drum removed http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0650.JPG . I have already cleaned the old grease away from the splines, threads and seating surface. Here's a look after 'dusting off' the shoes http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0652.JPG . I'll clean this whole mess carefully before reassembly. BTW, the drum doesn't need to be turned, only cleaned. Of course, I'll paint it while I have it off. Once the brakes are back working I will be able to drive the car. Next in the queue after that is to restore the wiring in the engine bay. This '70 car has a '65 engine so the starter circuit has been jury-rigged. I'll clean all that up and refresh all connections when I get to that project. Here's a quick look at the passenger-side inner wheel-well. wiring http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0648.JPG . And one last picture: http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0645.JPG . This is a view of the carbs with the air cleaners reinstalled. Happy Thursday! rick From saidel at camden.rutgers.edu Thu Jun 28 07:52:17 2007 From: saidel at camden.rutgers.edu (Bill Saidel) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:52:17 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find? In-Reply-To: References: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C64CEA4@kb1.mossmotors.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20070628094819.022e0f28@camden.rutgers.edu> After I sutured my jaw back up, I realized there were very few MG's and none of A or B vintage. Anyone have an idea as to why that was? Since there was a TR-4, it cannot be because of the age of the collection. Is this lack a political expression of a British-Portugese relationship???? So why? Bill Saidel '76B '74B, under restoration At 07:50 PM 6/27/2007, Max Heim wrote: >Just for fun, here is the list that SCM magazine compiled from the photos... > >So, What's In There? >All the cars are dusty and the lighting is pretty poor, but searching >through photos of these cars on various web sites, I was able to identify a >fair number. Here is a partial list: > >Abarth 1300 Scorpione >Alfa GTV >Alfa 1900 SS >Alfa Bertone >Alfa Giuiletta >Alfa Giulietta Sprint >Alfa Giulia Sprint Speciale >Alfa Sud 1.5 >Austin A30 >Austin A40 Somerset >Austin Healey Sprite >Austin Mini Cooper >Austin Mini Cooper S >BMW 2002 >BMW 1800 >BMW 501 V8 Sedan >BMW Isetta >Bristol 404 Saloon >1931 Chrysler CD >Citrokn Traction Avant >Datsun 240Z >DKW 1000SP >Fiat Cabriolet >Fiat Topolino >Fiat 500 >Fiat 508 Balilla >Ford Cortina >Ford Taunus >Hillman Imp Californian >Lancia Aurelia B20 2+2 >Lancia Aurelia B24 >Lancia Appia >Lancia Flaminia Zagato >Lancia Flaminia Coupe >Lotus Elan DHC >Lotus Elan FHC >Lotus Elan +2 >Lotus Europa >Lotus Super 7 Series IV >MG Midget >MG Magnette >Matra Djet >1923-4 Maxwell >Mini Moke >Nash Metropolitan >Opel GT >Opel Rekord >Peugeot 202 >Peugeot 404 Cabriolet >Peugeot 505 Cabriolet >1939 Plymouth >Porsche 356B >Porsche 356C >Renault Dauphine >Rover P5 Saloon >Rover P6 >Saab 93 >Simca Coupe de Ville >Singer Gazelle >Steyr Puch >Triumph TR4 >Volvo PV444 >VW Beetle > >Dozens of American sedans, from a 1932 Ford 2-door sedan to 1970s Olds >Cutlasses; >Dozens of 1950s and 1960s Mercedes sedans; >A couple of Formula race cars; > >There may be more than one example of each of the cars listed above. From Rabeys at aol.com Thu Jun 28 10:03:26 2007 From: Rabeys at aol.com (Rabeys at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:03:26 EDT Subject: [Mgs] 72 Midge brakes Message-ID: I fix one thing and another brakes. Discovered that my master cyclinder was leaking and decided it was something I could tackle. Have assisted in the project before but never done it completely on my own. So i get the mc off and the new one back on with no problems. I go to hook up the brake lines and problems. I was told to be very careful about cross threading and I did my best. I got one on after several tries making sure i wasnt cross threading. The other one was a major pain. I finally gave up, it simply would not thread. I thought I might have damaged it taking it off because it was harder to do then the first. The bend in the line seemed to put tension on it, and it was coming out at an angle. I took the whole brake line off and took the other brake line from my parts car. I hook it up and it hand threaded with ease into the master cylinder, however, when i tried to connect it to the brake pressure thing ( i dont know what its called but its where the other ende of my brake line connected and 2 wires come out of it) it would not thread...same as the original problem. I was besides my self and I'm sure i offended the ears of my neighbors, but good lord! I tried the original brake line fitting from that side and it threaded fine...they look almost identical but i think it might be a tad bit longer than the parts car line. Has anyone ever experienced that?! Im going to take both lines to a shop or something and see if they can transfer fittings...surely a specialty brake place could do that. Otherwise, the parts store told me I would have to order the entire brake line set which is over $100 and i just spent $200 something. Any thoughts on this or similar experiences? Steph ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From sumton at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 27 14:23:45 2007 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:23:45 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] It's come time (Scimitar for sale) References: Message-ID: <000201c7b99f$1eb11990$800101df@Garage.local> pics??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brinkman, Gerardo V" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:03 PM Subject: [Mgs] It's come time (Scimitar for sale) > After 25 years of ownership, it's time to sell my Scimitar. The main > reason is that I kind of lost interest in it - I have not driven it for > 2 years and it needs to go to some one who at least will drive it, > so that it does not deteriorate any more and becomes undriveable. > > My BIG question is: What price? I have no idea what a fair market > value would be, my thinking is to price it 10% above a similar TVR > of similar vintage. > > I'd like to hear other's opinions. > > Obligatory MG content: the Scimitar shares door handles, wiper motor > and wheels with an MGB-GT !!!! > Gerry > ____ From barrie at look.ca Thu Jun 28 09:30:04 2007 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:30:04 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Background image In-Reply-To: <40b437200706272307i684d8abcs2bcc8ed1992c0585@mail.gmail.co m> References: <40b437200706272307i684d8abcs2bcc8ed1992c0585@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070628161334.F3EA3187ACC@autox.team.net> Simon, I sent out an email to the list saying people could contact me and then I would send it to them direct - I got about 6 requests for the file - but I cannot remember from whom!!! At 02:07 AM 6/28/2007, Simon Matthews wrote: >Barrie, > >the list software strips attachments, so I doubt that anyone has the >file -- unless you sent it as a link? > >Regards, >Simon > >On 6/27/07, Barrie Robinson wrote: >>Some while ag I sent a file which could be used as a background. It >>had all sorts of marque logos. I seem to have mislaid my own copy - >>Can someone please send it back to me? >> >>Regards >>Barrie >> >>Barrie Robinson >>(705) 721-9060 >>http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm >>_______________________________________________ >>simon.d.matthews at gmail.com >> >>Edit your replies >> >>Mgs at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson barrie at look.ca http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm From mghirsch at netzero.net Thu Jun 28 10:25:17 2007 From: mghirsch at netzero.net (Maynard Hirsch) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:25:17 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] 72 midge brakes Message-ID: <005a01c7b9a0$ebf3d540$6600a8c0@maynardi2jlr25> It happens occassionally, and is very frustrating. I think what happens is the there is a slight difference in angle of the brake line and it doesn't enter the hole straight. Because of all the room you have to work in the midget (VBG) try this. Don't have the master bolted in place. Let it wiggle on the mounting studs. Then try the lines. Maynard From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 28 10:44:43 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:44:43 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Then there's a guy in Castroville with a large metal building that must have 50-60 cars, including a Lambo, a Roller, Bristols, TVRs, Jags and the usual motley assortment of MGs, Fiats and whatnot. Not concours, not necessarily running...put a padlock on the door and leave it for 20 years and you've got the Portugal situation... Just thinking, there must be a lot of these hoards around, if we can name three or four of them in central/northern California alone. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/27/07 9:43 PM, Aeseeyou at aol.com at Aeseeyou at aol.com wrote: > Kelvin, > There a fellow, who lives up at the end of Soule Rd. in Ojai, that still > owns every car he's ever had. He has never sold any of his cars. Plus he also > owns about 100 others. I counted seven XKE's, a 1956 Jaguar Mk.1 and two > XK-120's, a XK-140 about 6 MK 7's and Mk. 8's-and 3 Mk 10's. A couple of > Jensen > Interceptors, plus about 10 or so MG's (TD's and MGA's and B's) He also has > lots of early American cars (Packards, Buicks Fords, etc.) Our club took a > drive > up to see his collection about 5 years ago..He's wealthy and has no need to > sell or get rid of anything but says that each year it's a pain to mow the > grass and keep the weeds down around them. We saw 1 1946 Ford coupe that he'd > built inside a room and the only way to get it out would be to knock out a > wall as it's fully enclosed! The things some people do... > Albert Escalante From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 28 10:51:34 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:51:34 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070628094819.022e0f28@camden.rutgers.edu> Message-ID: Well, one explanation comes to mind, considering how difficult it is to find a B in a crowded parking lot... They may just be parked in the back and impossible to see in order to photograph (or even to approach). Or, the article hints that most of these cars were acquired as trade-ins at this fellow's dealership -- perhaps nobody traded in MGAs or Bs, because they were having too much fun driving them. Although the presence of Spridgets tends to belie this theory. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/28/07 6:52 AM, Bill Saidel at saidel at camden.rutgers.edu wrote: > After I sutured my jaw back up, I realized there were very few MG's > and none of A or B vintage. Anyone have an idea as to why that > was? Since there was a TR-4, it cannot be because of the age of the > collection. Is this lack a political expression of a > British-Portugese relationship???? > > So why? > > Bill Saidel > '76B > '74B, under restoration > > At 07:50 PM 6/27/2007, Max Heim wrote: >> Just for fun, here is the list that SCM magazine compiled from the photos... >> >> So, What's In There? >> All the cars are dusty and the lighting is pretty poor, but searching >> through photos of these cars on various web sites, I was able to identify a >> fair number. Here is a partial list: >> >> Abarth 1300 Scorpione >> Alfa GTV >> Alfa 1900 SS >> Alfa Bertone >> Alfa Giuiletta >> Alfa Giulietta Sprint >> Alfa Giulia Sprint Speciale >> Alfa Sud 1.5 >> Austin A30 >> Austin A40 Somerset >> Austin Healey Sprite >> Austin Mini Cooper >> Austin Mini Cooper S >> BMW 2002 >> BMW 1800 >> BMW 501 V8 Sedan >> BMW Isetta >> Bristol 404 Saloon >> 1931 Chrysler CD >> Citrokn Traction Avant >> Datsun 240Z >> DKW 1000SP >> Fiat Cabriolet >> Fiat Topolino >> Fiat 500 >> Fiat 508 Balilla >> Ford Cortina >> Ford Taunus >> Hillman Imp Californian >> Lancia Aurelia B20 2+2 >> Lancia Aurelia B24 >> Lancia Appia >> Lancia Flaminia Zagato >> Lancia Flaminia Coupe >> Lotus Elan DHC >> Lotus Elan FHC >> Lotus Elan +2 >> Lotus Europa >> Lotus Super 7 Series IV >> MG Midget >> MG Magnette >> Matra Djet >> 1923-4 Maxwell >> Mini Moke >> Nash Metropolitan >> Opel GT >> Opel Rekord >> Peugeot 202 >> Peugeot 404 Cabriolet >> Peugeot 505 Cabriolet >> 1939 Plymouth >> Porsche 356B >> Porsche 356C >> Renault Dauphine >> Rover P5 Saloon >> Rover P6 >> Saab 93 >> Simca Coupe de Ville >> Singer Gazelle >> Steyr Puch >> Triumph TR4 >> Volvo PV444 >> VW Beetle >> >> Dozens of American sedans, from a 1932 Ford 2-door sedan to 1970s Olds >> Cutlasses; >> Dozens of 1950s and 1960s Mercedes sedans; >> A couple of Formula race cars; >> >> There may be more than one example of each of the cars listed above. From rolindsay at yahoo.com Thu Jun 28 12:26:57 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] front axle grease cups Message-ID: <922376.53744.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey Gang, I'm at work and the car and manuals are at home. Please share a bit of advice: My '70 B has wire wheels so it has spline hubs. How does the (front, obviously) grease cap come off? Is it press fit in? Screwed in? Magic? Thanks, rick From doddk at mossmotors.com Thu Jun 28 12:41:47 2007 From: doddk at mossmotors.com (Dodd, Kelvin) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:41:47 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] front axle grease cups In-Reply-To: <922376.53744.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F0C64CF90@kb1.mossmotors.com> Rick: It's pressed in. There should be a threaded rod sticking out of the center. I think 5/16 fine. You can make a pulling tool out of a 5/16" spacer or Moss does have a puller available if you plan on doing this again. Worst case, do what thousands of DPO have done and use vice grips. http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=53723 Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Rick Lindsay > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:27 AM > To: MGS > Subject: [Mgs] front axle grease cups > > Hey Gang, > I'm at work and the car and manuals are at home. > Please share a bit of advice: My '70 B has wire wheels > so it has spline hubs. How does the (front, > obviously) grease cap come off? Is it press fit in? > Screwed in? Magic? > > Thanks, > > rick From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 28 12:42:00 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:42:00 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] front axle grease cups In-Reply-To: <922376.53744.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It is pressed in, but has a threaded stud on it to aid extraction. Exactly how is left as an exercise for the reader... -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/28/07 11:26 AM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay at yahoo.com wrote: > Hey Gang, > I'm at work and the car and manuals are at home. > Please share a bit of advice: My '70 B has wire wheels > so it has spline hubs. How does the (front, > obviously) grease cap come off? Is it press fit in? > Screwed in? Magic? > > Thanks, > > rick From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Thu Jun 28 14:10:50 2007 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (Richard Feibusch) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:10:50 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] Palo Alto British Car Meet 2007 Message-ID: ****************************************************** THE 2007 PALO ALTO BRITISH CAR MEET El Camino Park - Just Across From Stanford Center September Eighth & Ninth Join us for the most historic British automotive lawn event in California. 400 quirky, classic, and thoroughly lovable British cars are once again expected to grace the field at El Camino Park for the 29th Annual Palo Alto British Car Meet. SUNDAY CAR SHOW - SEPTEMBER 9th - 9:00AM - 5:00PM Join your British car friends for a smashing day at the park. Don't have a show car? Don't worry! Daily drivers, vintage racers, street rods & works-in-progress are as welcome as Concours quality restorations. British food, jazz, and more fun than you'll be able to tolerate! This year there will be individual marque awards in a minimum of 15 classes. We will start placing cars on the field at about 9:AM and the fun goes on all day! There is no preregistration and all entrants will receive a commemorative gift. The registration fee is $25 per car at the gate. Joining us again this year will be the cool little cars from around the world in the Arcane Auto Society. Spectators attend for free. SATURDAY BACKROAD TOUR TO THE SEA - SEPTEMBER 8th The British Car Meet TOUR TO THE SEA starts at El Camino Park in Palo Alto - the same place as the Sunday Car Show. We will be sending cars off between 8:30 and 10:30AM. A map will be provided. This is a no-cost option for people who like to drive their cars as well as show 'em. The tour ends at Cameron's Pub in Half Moon Bay where we will be kicking tyres and telling tall tales well into the afternoon. SATURDAY SWAP MEET - SEPTEMBER 8th - 8:00AM - 11:00AM We are trying to bring back this event this year - more details as they become available ...... tentatively 8:00AM - 11:00AM in Santa Clara DIRECTIONS TO EL CAMINO PARK: El Camino Park is located on the El Camino, just north of University Ave, opposite Stanford Center. From 101 take University Ave. west, go under the Alma Street overpass, and turn right onto the El Camino Real. From 280, take the Sandhill Road Exit east and turn right on the El Camino, stay to the right to the University Ave exit, turn left at the overpass, then left again back onto the El Camino heading north. PLEASE, DO NOT PARK TRAILERS IN THE STANFORD CENTER PARKING LOT! Trailer parking will be available on-site on the south field baseball diamond. Call for information: 310-392-6605 e-mail: ************************************************* From sumton at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 28 13:46:15 2007 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:46:15 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] front axle grease cups References: Message-ID: <003b01c7b9bd$711445e0$8115a8c0@Garage.local> it is press fit (pounded) in. you have to grab it by the balls, er, thingee, and pull it out. > >> Hey Gang, >> I'm at work and the car and manuals are at home. >> Please share a bit of advice: My '70 B has wire wheels >> so it has spline hubs. How does the (front, >> obviously) grease cap come off? Is it press fit in? >> Screwed in? Magic? >> >> Thanks, >> >> rick From sumton at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 28 13:50:55 2007 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:50:55 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] skype - ot References: <002601c7ad3a$7aa3ebe0$6401a8c0@Brian> Message-ID: <000201c7b9bd$a56dea30$8115a8c0@Garage.local> hi. i have a client who wants me to set up skype on his laptop. thought it would be fun to test it with a lister out there. anyone? From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Thu Jun 28 14:02:22 2007 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:02:22 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] skype - ot In-Reply-To: <000201c7b9bd$a56dea30$8115a8c0@Garage.local> References: <002601c7ad3a$7aa3ebe0$6401a8c0@Brian> <000201c7b9bd$a56dea30$8115a8c0@Garage.local> Message-ID: <4801E63444304342BA12869D78DB025FC1297E@EXVS01.msubillings.edu> Skype is bad news. In fact, we have banned it on our campus (Montana State University) where I work. Our policy essentially is for people to use any Internet telephony application but Skype. Its main problem is that it converts user computers into bandwidth sucking supernodes in order to route other Skype traffic. And you as the user agree to that when you install the software because of the software agreement (that length legal jargon that most people do not read). To quote the Skype EULA (way down, something like page 15): Article 4 Utilization of Your computer 4.1 Utilization of Your computer. You hereby acknowledge that the Skype Software may utilize the processor and bandwidth of the computer (or other applicable device) You are utilizing, for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between Skype Software users. David Councill 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of oliver Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:51 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] skype - ot hi. i have a client who wants me to set up skype on his laptop. thought it would be fun to test it with a lister out there. anyone? From Rabeys at aol.com Thu Jun 28 15:57:31 2007 From: Rabeys at aol.com (Rabeys at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 17:57:31 EDT Subject: [Mgs] 72 Midge brakes Message-ID: that's exactly what it was. i took the brake lines in to my mechanic down the road to ask him about it. he said the same thing...filed it down and checked by threading a nut onto it. i haven't hooked it back up yet, because i figured it best to take a little break from it. when i was taking the line out, a screw for one of the clamps on the firewall didnt want to come out. well...it came out the hard way, and now there is a much larger, jagged hole where it once was. i just had to have it out right then and there didn't i....geez! and i thought the bleeding of the brakes was going to be the hard part.... ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 28 16:09:04 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:09:04 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] 72 Midge brakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ah, sounds like you are getting a real taste of the joys of LBC ownership. It helps to cultivate a zen attitude and not force things. Take everything in its turn and try not to get frustrated. Taking a break can be a good idea. Inanimate objects are not actually malevolent even if it seems they are; conversely, threats, curses and rhetoric have no effect on them, although it may make you feel better. If you have to hit something, I suggest picking on one of the other objects in the garage, such as a partially inflated soccer ball, or the lawn chair cushions. Most parts of the car are much harder than your fist. ;-) -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires [BTDT] on 6/28/07 2:57 PM, Rabeys at aol.com at Rabeys at aol.com wrote: > that's exactly what it was. i took the brake lines in to my mechanic down > the road to ask him about it. he said the same thing...filed it down and > checked by threading a nut onto it. i haven't hooked it back up yet, because > i > figured it best to take a little break from it. when i was taking the line > out, a screw for one of the clamps on the firewall didnt want to come out. > well...it came out the hard way, and now there is a much larger, jagged hole > where it once was. i just had to have it out right then and there didn't > i....geez! and i thought the bleeding of the brakes was going to be the hard > part.... From Aeseeyou at aol.com Thu Jun 28 16:30:12 2007 From: Aeseeyou at aol.com (Aeseeyou at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 18:30:12 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Question about MG 1500 cc Midget transmisins and differetials Message-ID: Does anyone know of a transmission specialist for a 1979 Midget (1500?) Supposedly they are different from other Midgets....according to my friend who owns one, he's having a heck of a time with his (see below) To all, Madge, my 1500 cc MG Midget has a transmission problem. It has a very noisy 1st gear. I do have a spare transmission, but, before I embark on a major undertaking, since itbs already out of the car I'd like to have it checked out and attended to, if necessary. Before swapping it into my Midget! Would you (anyone) happen to know somebody (anyone) in the business? As long as we are on the subject, I also have a noisy differential. Same question. Thanks, Radu P.S. I considered the 5-speed route, almost ordered one (Pierce Manifolds here and Frontline Spridgets in the UK are the only ones that carry MG Midget 1500 5-speed kits), changed my mind at the last minute. I really don't need to go 80 mph ALL the time. Truly 70 is fine. Specially uphill ;-) Send me the name of the Transmission specialist via this list. I'll make sure my friend gets it! Thanks. Albert Escalante _aeseeyou at aol.com_ (mailto:aeseeyou at aol.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From awhitema at panix.com Thu Jun 28 22:25:13 2007 From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:25:13 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay Message-ID: This summer, I'm going to head to Petaluma, CA (From Pullman, WA) to visit my roommate in the dorms. I've visited a few times in the past, but have always flown. This time, I have the time to drive, so I'm seriously considering it, even though it would be cheaper to fly. My plan would be to take Washington Hwy 24 along the Columbia to Vancouver and then cross into Oregon to stay the night at a friends place. I can then head west to US-101 and turn south. I would follow the coast all the way to Bodega Bay before heading inland. For the return, I'd head north on I-5 to Weed, then turn northeast on US-97 to Bend, Oregon. From there, I'll northeast to La Grande, eventually getting to Enterprise where I can head north for home. Google map route plans linked at: http://www.panix.com/~awhitema/tmp/petaluma.html So, the questions: First, is two days reasonable to get from Portland to the Bay area along the Coast Highway? Second, with that route, are there conveniently placed listers that know of places where I can stay along the way (I'm thinking tent, not motel). Third, is $4/gallon a reasonable overestimate of fuel cost for Northern California and Oregon? -- Aaron Whiteman -- http://www.panix.com/~awhitema/ '75 MGB (red for now), HIF4 carbs '06 Subaru Impreza Outback From PRNDL at sonic.net Thu Jun 28 23:55:38 2007 From: PRNDL at sonic.net (Rod Williams) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:55:38 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Man, Aaron, you've got a real Road Warier trip planned, my friend! > First, is two days reasonable to get from Portland to the Bay area > along the Coast Highway? Umm... not really. The drive is insanely great but *very* twisty and you'll want to/have to stop to take in the view, eat, get your heart to slow down after almost being run off the road by a huge lumber truck again, etc. It's really more like two and a half to two and three quarters days minimum. And that's not being pokey either. You didn't say; what will you be driving? I assume the Subaru. You *could* just slam it through in two very long, tiring days, but why bother?? Two long days will just about get you from Petaluma to Portland via 5 and 101 whistling along at 75 mph. > Second, with that route, are there conveniently placed listers that > know of places where I can stay along the way (I'm thinking tent, not > motel). The tent thing will be fun, wet, and affordable, but it will also determine your stops 'cause there's not a lot of organized civilization for a big chunk of your route. One great stop is the Redwood National Forrest south of Crescent City. Super cool. > Third, is $4/gallon a reasonable overestimate of fuel cost for > Northern California and Oregon? Regular gas here in Petaluma is $3.12 or so and premium is $3.40-.50. Petaluma's a great place. You'll enjoy your time here. -- Rod Williams Petaluma, California 1967 MGB From r.gosling at penspen.com Fri Jun 29 02:08:31 2007 From: r.gosling at penspen.com (Gosling, Richard) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:08:31 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay Message-ID: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF636@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> Well, I drove from Vancouver to Los Angeles in 2 days once upon a time, so that's certainly do-able. It was two days solid driving, no breaks, and I got into LA around 8:00pm (to discover all the Youth Hostels were full to overflowing :-( ). This was 16 years ago, in a car that was 23 years old at the time, cruising at a comfortable 80mph (until an unfortunate incident with the California Highway Patrol). It's quite possible I took the I5 rather that US101, which would have been a bit quicker, to be honest I can't remember. I camped the night I was half-way, had no problem finding a campsite, hadn't organised or located one in advance, but maybe I just got lucky! I was young and carefree and just took life as it was thrown at me at the time :-) At the time I think I paid no more than $1.50/gall (once I got out of Canada!), but prices may have risen a little since then. I love long road trips (not that they are really possible in the UK, nothing is that far away), they journey is often as good as the destination, as long as you are under no time pressure. Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) ________________________________________________________________________ This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received it by mistake please notify the sender by return E-mail and delete this message from your system. Any unauthorised use or dissemination of this message in whole or in part is strictly prohibited. Please note that E-mails are susceptible to change. The Penspen Group shall not be liable for the improper or incomplete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt or damage to your system. The Penspen Group does not guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained or that this communication is free of viruses, interceptions or interference. The following UK companies within the Penspen Group and any electronic communication sent on behalf of any of them, are subject to the provisions of the UK Companies Act 1985; PENSPEN HOLDINGS LIMITED (Company Number : 980600) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) PENSPEN LIMITED (Company Number: 584446) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) (Unipen, Penspen Integrity and Andrew Palmer & Associates are operating divisions of Penspen Limited and Spencer & Partners and Pencol are trade names of Penspen Limited) LIBRA TECHNICAL SERVICES LIMITED (Company Number: 1874430) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) MANCHESTER JETLINE LIMITED (Company Number: 2392093) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 537 8635 08) From r.gosling at penspen.com Fri Jun 29 02:12:45 2007 From: r.gosling at penspen.com (Gosling, Richard) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:12:45 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Question about MG 1500 cc Midget transmisins and differetials Message-ID: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF637@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> The Midget 1500 uses the engine from the Triumph Spitfire, and presumably its gearbox too (although I wouldn't swear on it). I have no idea where the best place would be to have it attended to, just a pointer to search under "Triumph" as well as "MG". Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) ________________________________________________________________________ This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received it by mistake please notify the sender by return E-mail and delete this message from your system. Any unauthorised use or dissemination of this message in whole or in part is strictly prohibited. Please note that E-mails are susceptible to change. The Penspen Group shall not be liable for the improper or incomplete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt or damage to your system. The Penspen Group does not guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained or that this communication is free of viruses, interceptions or interference. The following UK companies within the Penspen Group and any electronic communication sent on behalf of any of them, are subject to the provisions of the UK Companies Act 1985; PENSPEN HOLDINGS LIMITED (Company Number : 980600) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) PENSPEN LIMITED (Company Number: 584446) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) (Unipen, Penspen Integrity and Andrew Palmer & Associates are operating divisions of Penspen Limited and Spencer & Partners and Pencol are trade names of Penspen Limited) LIBRA TECHNICAL SERVICES LIMITED (Company Number: 1874430) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) MANCHESTER JETLINE LIMITED (Company Number: 2392093) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 537 8635 08) From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 29 02:06:24 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:06:24 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Brake repairs started References: <590810.74335.qm@web82314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02fc01c7ba25$64136f20$0200a8c0@Three> Except that without leaks, I wonder how many years would be needed to evaporate the level down to the point of pumping in air. And that's only if you have the metal master reservoirs. It's true that I have to top up mine slightly from time to time, but that is just pad wear. When I fit new pads I usually have to wrap the neck in kitchen roll to absorb the overflow. Always assuming Abingdon and the original dealer sent it out with the correct level, of course. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > ... The PO may have just run the fluid level > down so low that air entered the system. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 29 02:14:12 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:14:12 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Electric Fans References: <231237.87012.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <031a01c7ba27$7e8c4000$0200a8c0@Three> Whilst 70 degree rain can often be called an English 'summer', it is not that uncommon to get temps of 80 and 90, and it's exceeded 100 in recent years. It is those occasions I refer to, not the more normal average of 70-odd. It doesn't matter how many days the temperature reaches 95, it isn't cumulative. But my experiences are immaterial, how many thousands of MGBs went to desert states with standard cooling and had no problems? So I say again, if you think you need additional cooling, unless you are operating in very extreme conditions, you have a problem that should be able to be fixed. No offence taken :o) PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > All joking aside, the temperature typically hits 95 > degrees F each day, all summer long - and that's over > 6 months of the year. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 29 02:26:18 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:26:18 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] It's come time (Scimitar for sale) References: Message-ID: <031b01c7ba27$7ea8efc0$0200a8c0@Three> Not quite wheels, they are very similar, but not exactly the same. I had a Scimitar many years ago, and a brilliant drivers car it was too. Mind you, that was after I had owned it for a year, it took me that long to get it fully sorted, the previous owners had not looked after it and it seemed to break down almost every time I took it out. Hoses were the big problem originally, after the third failure I decided to replace all the rest regardless, I'm sure there were about a dozen in all. The first went when I was taking my bosses boss through the wilds of Lincolnshire and we stopped in a cloud of steam. I looked around and in a field could see what looked like a farmers water bowser. Climbed the gate and rooted around in the hedge and found an empty fertiliser bag. Took that across to the bowser and filled it with water, then we both carried it back to the car and filled the radiator. It was a heater hose that had split, and all I had was some insulation tape which at least stopped the water running out. I left the radiator cap off so it didn't pressurise, and like that we got to the next garage, where we found a length of hose that would fit. My passenger said he was more impressed with my ingenuity than annoyed at the breakdown. On another occasion a head gasket went - and this is the obligatory MG content. They are composition, which has to bond to the head and block with heat before you add coolant, so you run it up dry first. I'm just nearing the end of a Midget 1500 head gasket replacement and that needs doing the same way. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Obligatory MG content: the Scimitar shares door handles, wiper motor > and wheels with an MGB-GT !!!! From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 29 02:57:14 2007 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:57:14 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Oil filter mount, oil cooler, accusump .... References: <20070627071158.GB16606@red4est.com> Message-ID: <033601c7ba2b$b207bc80$0200a8c0@Three> You can get that with spin-ons as well, if my experience with an expensive Volvo filter at the last oil change is anything to go by, but they are preferable, just be sure you put plenty of fresh oil on the rubber ring, and be sure not to tighten them any more than it says on the can. The V8 is remote and suspended, so by wrapping newspaper round the bottom it is usually possible to catch the spillage that occurs even with these. The upended filter on the roadster is a pain, some always gets past the paper and runs down the side of the crankcase and sump. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > I've used a couple of different types of spin-on mounts, and prefer > them to the canister type. I learned a painful lesson about > overtightening, when I blew the o-ring where it mounted and dumped all > the oil in my brand new motor on the ground. From mark.jones at exxonmobil.com Fri Jun 29 06:31:19 2007 From: mark.jones at exxonmobil.com (mark.jones at exxonmobil.com) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:31:19 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] (no subject) Message-ID: Can't help specifically with a transmission specialist, but the transmission in a Midget 1500 is the same as the one in a Spitfire 1500 so you may want to hang around some Spitfire owners. Regarding a 5 speed, try finding an overdrive transmission from a Spitfire. Mark 73 MGBGT 80 Spitfire 1500 From: Aeseeyou at aol.com Subject: [Mgs] Question about MG 1500 cc Midget transmisins and differetials Does anyone know of a transmission specialist for a 1979 Midget (1500?) Supposedly they are different from other Midgets....according to my friend who owns one, he's having a heck of a time with his (see below) To all, Madge, my 1500 cc MG Midget has a transmission problem. It has a very noisy 1st gear. I do have a spare transmission, but, before I embark on a major undertaking, since itbs already out of the car I'd like to have it checked out and attended to, if necessary. Before swapping it into my Midget! Would you (anyone) happen to know somebody (anyone) in the business? As long as we are on the subject, I also have a noisy differential. Same question. Thanks, Radu P.S. I considered the 5-speed route, almost ordered one (Pierce Manifolds here and Frontline Spridgets in the UK are the only ones that carry MG Midget 1500 5-speed kits), changed my mind at the last minute. I really don't need to go 80 mph ALL the time. Truly 70 is fine. Specially uphill ;-) Send me the name of the Transmission specialist via this list. I'll make sure my friend gets it! Thanks. Albert Escalante _aeseeyou at aol.com_ (mailto:aeseeyou at aol.com) From r.gosling at penspen.com Fri Jun 29 06:44:42 2007 From: r.gosling at penspen.com (Gosling, Richard) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:44:42 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] (no subject) Message-ID: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF638@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> ..."Regarding a 5 speed, try finding an overdrive transmission from a Spitfire"... I believe the Spitfire transmission doesn't fit when an overdrive is attached. Otherwise MG would have offered that as an option when new. Maybe some folk out there have found a way to make it fit, I have no idea! Richard & Sammy ________________________________________________________________________ This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received it by mistake please notify the sender by return E-mail and delete this message from your system. Any unauthorised use or dissemination of this message in whole or in part is strictly prohibited. Please note that E-mails are susceptible to change. The Penspen Group shall not be liable for the improper or incomplete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt or damage to your system. The Penspen Group does not guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained or that this communication is free of viruses, interceptions or interference. The following UK companies within the Penspen Group and any electronic communication sent on behalf of any of them, are subject to the provisions of the UK Companies Act 1985; PENSPEN HOLDINGS LIMITED (Company Number : 980600) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) PENSPEN LIMITED (Company Number: 584446) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) (Unipen, Penspen Integrity and Andrew Palmer & Associates are operating divisions of Penspen Limited and Spencer & Partners and Pencol are trade names of Penspen Limited) LIBRA TECHNICAL SERVICES LIMITED (Company Number: 1874430) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 239 7770 19) MANCHESTER JETLINE LIMITED (Company Number: 2392093) Registered Office: 3 Water Lane, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1TJ Registered in England and Wales (VAT No; 537 8635 08) From rolindsay at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 06:55:04 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Brake repairs started In-Reply-To: <02fc01c7ba25$64136f20$0200a8c0@Three> Message-ID: <861379.56352.qm@web82311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please keep in mind that this car has been through quite a few owners. The brakes have been worked on a number of times and who knows how much fluid was in the reservoir when my PO got the car. Remember, he said he never checked it. Besides, I'm just going to run fluid through it anyway. The stuff that's in there is black. If I find that the M/C appears anything less that 100% it will all come apart. FWIW, the rest of the system looks pretty nice. No leaks seen, no perished rubber boots, etc.. Yes, I know, I should pull it all apart and rebuild everything. I also should rebuild the engine, service the transmission, replace the top, repaint the car, whatever, if this was a proper restoration. It is not. It is just a hobby. rick --- Paul Hunt wrote: > Except that without leaks, I wonder how many years > would be needed to > evaporate the level down to the point of pumping in > air. And that's only if > you have the metal master reservoirs. It's true > that I have to top up mine > slightly from time to time, but that is just pad > wear. When I fit new pads > I usually have to wrap the neck in kitchen roll to > absorb the overflow. > Always assuming Abingdon and the original dealer > sent it out with the > correct level, of course. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > ... The PO may have just run the fluid level > > down so low that air entered the system. From mark.jones at exxonmobil.com Fri Jun 29 06:56:48 2007 From: mark.jones at exxonmobil.com (mark.jones at exxonmobil.com) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:56:48 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Question about MG 1500 cc Midget transmissions and differentials In-Reply-To: <76458B73D88AF649B30C48899A95ACB09EF638@sv-lon-exch1.Penspen.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, You certainly could be right, although there is no difference in the overall length of an overdrive or non-overdrive transmission, they both use the same driveshaft. Of course there is the width of the overdrive unit to contend with, which may fetch-up in the Midget's transmission tunnel. The other problem being that Spitfires with overdrive were not common in N.A. so they are a bit hard to find. I was lucky to find a Spitfire with overdrive. Mark "Gosling, Richard" , m> cc: Subject: RE: [Mgs] (no subject) 06/29/2007 08:44 AM ..."Regarding a 5 speed, try finding an overdrive transmission from a Spitfire"... I believe the Spitfire transmission doesn't fit when an overdrive is attached. Otherwise MG would have offered that as an option when new. Maybe some folk out there have found a way to make it fit, I have no idea! Richard & Sammy From mark.jones at exxonmobil.com Fri Jun 29 07:12:16 2007 From: mark.jones at exxonmobil.com (mark.jones at exxonmobil.com) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:12:16 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Brake repairs started Message-ID: It may be just a hobby but brakes are a safety item and to me the most important piece of the puzzle to have working perfectly, otherwise I agree, its just a hobby. If the stuff that is in there is black to me that means that the brake hoses have perished and need to be replaced. Mark From: Rick Lindsay Subject: Re: [Mgs] Brake repairs started Please keep in mind that this car has been through quite a few owners. The brakes have been worked on a number of times and who knows how much fluid was in the reservoir when my PO got the car. Remember, he said he never checked it. Besides, I'm just going to run fluid through it anyway. The stuff that's in there is black. If I find that the M/C appears anything less that 100% it will all come apart. FWIW, the rest of the system looks pretty nice. No leaks seen, no perished rubber boots, etc.. Yes, I know, I should pull it all apart and rebuild everything. I also should rebuild the engine, service the transmission, replace the top, repaint the car, whatever, if this was a proper restoration. It is not. It is just a hobby. rick From mark.jones at exxonmobil.com Fri Jun 29 07:25:37 2007 From: mark.jones at exxonmobil.com (mark.jones at exxonmobil.com) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:25:37 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay Message-ID: I too love road trips. Tomorrow I'm heading out on a 2,000 mile trip from southwestern Ontario to New Brunswick in my GT, shall be fun! Mark 73 MGBGT From: "Gosling, Richard" Subject: Re: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay I love long road trips (not that they are really possible in the UK, nothing is that far away), they journey is often as good as the destination, as long as you are under no time pressure. Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) From awhitema at panix.com Fri Jun 29 07:35:03 2007 From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 06:35:03 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2007, at 10:55 PM, Rod Williams wrote: > Man, Aaron, you've got a real Road Warier trip planned, my friend! That's part of the plan. Make the journey part of the destination. >> First, is two days reasonable to get from Portland to the Bay area >> along the Coast Highway? > Umm... not really. The drive is insanely great but *very* twisty > and you'll > want to/have to stop to take in the view, eat, get your heart to > slow down > after almost being run off the road by a huge lumber truck again, > etc. It's > really more like two and a half to two and three quarters days > minimum. And > that's not being pokey either. That's good to know, I can extend the trip to 4 days down (including the day to Portland). > You didn't say; what will you be driving? I assume the Subaru. Nope. US 101 and CA-1 are MG roads, and the MG needs to play. > You *could* just slam it through in two very long, tiring > days, but why bother?? Two long days will just about get you from > Petaluma > to Portland via 5 and 101 whistling along at 75 mph. If that was my only choice, I'd just fly :) I'd get there in 5 hours, and enjoy the compliments of Horizon air doing it. > The tent thing will be fun, wet, and affordable, but it will also > determine > your stops 'cause there's not a lot of organized civilization for a > big > chunk of your route. One great stop is the Redwood National Forrest > south of > Crescent City. Super cool. It sounds like it's just a matter of knowing where I am and doing some research to know where I can throw up a tent. I'm actually less worried about finding places to stay going south than the return trip. I grew up in a 2 season town ("July and 'wet'"), so a little moisture won't bother me. > Petaluma's a great place. You'll enjoy your time here. Yeah, I've enjoyed the previous trips too. Normally, I head down in the fall to catch the cougs playing Cal or Stanford, but this year the game is during a bad time, so I'm going to enjoy the summer. -- Aaron Whiteman -- http://www.panix.com/~awhitema/ '75 MGB (red for now), HIF4 carbs '06 Subaru Impreza Outback From ladaniels at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 29 07:37:33 2007 From: ladaniels at sbcglobal.net (Larry Daniels) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:37:33 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay References: Message-ID: <08b801c7ba52$a724f450$6401a8c0@Larry> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay I too love road trips. Tomorrow I'm heading out on a 2,000 mile trip from southwestern Ontario to New Brunswick in my GT, shall be fun! Mark 73 MGBGT =========================== For those in the Wisconsin or Ohio areas, there is a two day run called the "America's British Reliability Run". It is on October 6th and 7th. There are 2 two day runs of approx. 800 miles each being held simultaneously in WI and OH. They are charity events and are based on a similar event in Britain. America's British Reliability Run www.abrr.org Larry Daniels 79 MGB LE 60 Bugeye 67 Austin A60 Pickup (Ute) "You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape." From RampantNM at aol.com Fri Jun 29 08:02:52 2007 From: RampantNM at aol.com (RampantNM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:02:52 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Question about MG 1500 cc Midget transmisins and differetials Message-ID: In a message dated 6/28/2007 4:30:51 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, Aeseeyou at aol.com writes: Does anyone know of a transmission specialist for a 1979 Midget (1500?) Supposedly they are different from other Midgets....according to my friend who owns one, he's having a heck of a time with his (see below) To all, Madge, my 1500 cc MG Midget has a transmission problem. It has a very noisy 1st gear. I do have a spare transmission, but, before I embark on a major undertaking, since itbs already out of the car I'd like to have it checked out and attended to, if necessary. Before swapping it into my Midget! Would you (anyone) happen to know somebody (anyone) in the business? As long as we are on the subject, I also have a noisy differential. Same question. Thanks, Radu P.S. I considered the 5-speed route, almost ordered one (Pierce Manifolds here and Frontline Spridgets in the UK are the only ones that carry MG Midget 1500 5-speed kits), changed my mind at the last minute. I really don't need to go 80 mph ALL the time. Truly 70 is fine. Specially uphill ;-) Send me the name of the Transmission specialist via this list. I'll make sure my friend gets it! Thanks. Albert Escalante _aeseeyou at aol.com_ (mailto:aeseeyou at aol.com) First suggestion is to sign on to the Spridget and TR lists at autox, or there may be a Spitfire list. This 1500 transmission is a Triumph trans and those folks will know more about it. If you source a replacement from a SPitfire, you can possibly find one with overdrive. One of the Spridget list members, Dr. Macy, has done the Frontline conversion and loves it. 70 with the ability to manuver when you need to sounds good to me. RBH ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From RampantNM at aol.com Fri Jun 29 08:09:35 2007 From: RampantNM at aol.com (RampantNM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:09:35 EDT Subject: [Mgs] (no subject) Message-ID: In a message dated 6/29/2007 6:43:50 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, r.gosling at penspen.com writes: I believe the Spitfire transmission doesn't fit when an overdrive is attached. Otherwise MG would have offered that as an option when new. Maybe some folk out there have found a way to make it fit, I have no idea! Richard & Sammy Takes a bit of pounding on the transmission hump, but it will fit. RBH ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From ptrmgb at gmail.com Fri Jun 29 12:01:15 2007 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:01:15 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Cosmic Wheels are on! Message-ID: <5b0769cb0706291101r70f5aed7gcca02f9c0b689db@mail.gmail.com> I just got back from Dwight's, with my new Cosmic wheels mounted and balanced. If you will recall. A month or so ago, I sent out mail about Tires Plus not being able to mount the tires, afraid they'd tear them. Dwight had absolutely no problem. And I got to be in there to help. Plus good conversation for an hour. Dwight's your guy, if you are in the Twin Cities. Oh, he also had a BGTV8 in the garage. Can't remember who's it is now. But it was one of the two that got imported last year. It's a 76. Looks pretty good. Dwight was rebuilding the SUs. It was green, Pretty good. Now, I need to find some hub caps that will work for the Cosmics. With the wheels and going to the June Sprints last weekend, seeing all the cars, I really want to get the car painted now. I'll never find time to do it myself. I think the checkbook has to come out. :-( Paul. From david_breneman at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 14:26:07 2007 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Unusual MG sighting - supermarket flier! Message-ID: <169454.33367.qm@web42110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is a local yuppie type upscale grocery store chain. http://metropolitan-markets.com/ad.php David Breneman david_breneman at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ From david_breneman at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 14:38:22 2007 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <974768.62298.qm@web42105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Aaron Whiteman wrote: > First, is two days reasonable to get from Portland to the Bay area > along the Coast Highway? Yes. A friend and drove my MGB from Tacoma to San Francisco in 1979, cutting over to 101 at Portland. We left Tacoma at 6:00 and arrived in Oakland (where we finally found a motel) at 2:00 the next morning. I'd never do that again. But in two days, yes, it would be great. At least nowadays there won't be as many logging trucks to get stuck behind, but probably just as many Winnebagos with clueless Good Sams at the wheel. > Second, with that route, are there conveniently placed listers that > know of places where I can stay along the way (I'm thinking tent, > not motel). I can't really reccommend any hotels, but if you're going down the coast you've got to do Sea Lion Caves, Trees of Mystery and some of the other cheesy roadside attractions. "There's something about Sea Lion Caves that steals your heart!" Yeah, the smell. :-) David Breneman david_breneman at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC From david_breneman at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 14:43:07 2007 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay In-Reply-To: <974768.62298.qm@web42105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <246440.37995.qm@web42110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- David Breneman wrote: > I can't really reccommend any hotels, I meant non-hotels. :-) David Breneman david_breneman at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 29 15:52:36 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:52:36 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 6/28/07 10:55 PM, Rod Williams at PRNDL at sonic.net wrote: > Man, Aaron, you've got a real Road Warier trip planned, my friend! > >> First, is two days reasonable to get from Portland to the Bay area >> along the Coast Highway? > Umm... not really. The drive is insanely great but *very* twisty and you'll > want to/have to stop to take in the view, eat, get your heart to slow down > after almost being run off the road by a huge lumber truck again, etc. It's > really more like two and a half to two and three quarters days minimum. And > that's not being pokey either. You didn't say; what will you be driving? I > assume the Subaru. You *could* just slam it through in two very long, tiring > days, but why bother?? Two long days will just about get you from Petaluma > to Portland via 5 and 101 whistling along at 75 mph. No way it takes that long. I used to do South Bay to Portland in 11-12 hours on I-5, with a dinner stop. From Petaluma is an hour and a half shorter. Portland to San Jose is only about 700 miles. I've done Portland to Eugene on 5, then over to the coast and down 101 to the Bay Area in one day, driving very moderately in a Subaru wagon, in heavy rain. The trick is to stay on 101, and not cut over to Hwy 1 on the California coast. That's the really twisty, slow part. That last 50 miles before Bodega Bay, every ten mile stretch takes twice as long as the previous one. But if you get an early start from your campsite, go for it. But I highly recommend you do this midweek, not on a weekend. > >> Second, with that route, are there conveniently placed listers that >> know of places where I can stay along the way (I'm thinking tent, not >> motel). > The tent thing will be fun, wet, and affordable, but it will also determine > your stops 'cause there's not a lot of organized civilization for a big > chunk of your route. One great stop is the Redwood National Forrest south of > Crescent City. Super cool. Yeah, if you are going to camp, it might as well be in the redwoods, and that's more or less halfway, anyway. Weekends may be pretty booked up, though, for car spaces. Better check. > >> Third, is $4/gallon a reasonable overestimate of fuel cost for >> Northern California and Oregon? > Regular gas here in Petaluma is $3.12 or so and premium is $3.40-.50. > > Petaluma's a great place. You'll enjoy your time here. Just stay north of Marin County. Anywhere you can see the Bay from they tack on another 30-40 cents. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires From jkk at adams.net Fri Jun 29 17:15:41 2007 From: jkk at adams.net (James Kleemeyer) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:15:41 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Old Barn Find - Hoax? References: Message-ID: <009d01c7baa3$698afb20$6401a8c0@DD1H1CB1> There is a guy in Quincy, Il who is supposed to have 50 or 60 MGAs. I've been in one of his buildings where he works on his cars and have seen 10 or 12 MGAs stored on racks against the walls as well as a half dozen in all stages of assembly (or disassembly). He also has quite a few Bs as well as T series cars, a few Jaguars, and an assortment of other cars and trucks in that same building. There was a painted MGA shell sitting outside of a small shop in Ursa for most of the winter that is his, now there is a pretty decent complete car (OEW WW MGA) sitting in it's place, I assume it's waiting it's turn in the paint booth. I ride by there everyday on my way to work and dream about dragging it home with me. Jim From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sat Jun 30 10:28:08 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] A couple of uninteresting pictures Message-ID: <788701.65023.qm@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Troopers, Tiny bit of work over the past few days. I have removed the rear brakes and cleaned the internal mechanism. I posted a picture or two of that work. Here's the one of the left rear brakes http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0652.JPG . I also wrote that I was cleaning and evaluating the drum. Here's how it looks now http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0654.JPG . You can see the coat of black paint curing on the rim. the braking surface is in very nice condition, not pitted or scored. It required no maintenance other than a clean-up with ScotchBrite. The exterior of the drum got the same treatment http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0655.JPG . And a coat of gloss black paint, seen drying in this shot http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0656.JPG . The finish is now uniformaly smooth and neat. Regards, rick From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 30 12:02:02 2007 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (Richard Feibusch) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 10:02:02 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] Oxnard, California - All British Car/Bike Show 7-22-07 Message-ID: ************************************************** The 17th Annual Central Coast British Car Club's All British Car & Motorcycle Show July 22, 2007 All Day 8:00 am to 4:00 pm Channel Islands Yacht Harbor 3600 Harbor Blvd. Oxnard Beach, CA Featured Marque: Morgan Cars and 3-wheelers Trophies in every class- Raffle Prizes given all day! Swap Meet! ~ Entertainment! ~ Food! - Fun! Please call C. Darryl Struth at (805) 644-6211 Or Don Greene (805) 652-0330 or email: , To get a registration form go on line to the clubs website: http://www.centralcoastbritishcarclub.com ***************************************************** From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Sat Jun 30 14:08:54 2007 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 13:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] A couple of uninteresting pictures In-Reply-To: <788701.65023.qm@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <491078.8452.qm@web50911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Rick Lindsay wrote: And a coat of gloss black paint, seen drying in this shot http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0656.JPG . The finish is now uniformaly smooth and neat. ---------------- Black is so boring, Rick, why not a nice coat of red to match the car? You can paint the front calipers to match!! Next up: purple neon lites underneath! ;) Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that smoke? '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From lrc at red4est.com Sat Jun 30 16:18:20 2007 From: lrc at red4est.com (Larry Colen) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:18:20 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] West coast road trip time and places to stay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070630221820.GP8902@red4est.com> If you're heading back up on I-5, try to schedule your trip to go through Willows when they're having an open track day at Thunderhill http://thunderhill.com It's a very fun track. Quite challenging, but designed to be safe, with almost nothing large and heavy to hit in any likely impact zones. -- All your apex are belong to us. Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com http://www.red4est.com/lrc From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sat Jun 30 16:35:32 2007 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] A couple of uninteresting pictures In-Reply-To: <491078.8452.qm@web50911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <489651.65792.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yo, yo Dan, whaz up?! If you have some red paint, hook me up. ;-) No, sorry, these cars are British so perhaps I should have been more conservative. I should have used flat black paint. I'd consider the purple neon lights but being in the realm of Lucas, they'd probably be dark anyway. rick --- Dan DiBiase wrote: > Rick Lindsay wrote: And a coat > of gloss black paint, seen drying in this shot > http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0656.JPG . The finish > is > now uniformaly smooth and neat. > > ---------------- > Black is so boring, Rick, why not a nice coat of red > to match the car? You can paint the front calipers > to match!! Next up: purple neon lites underneath! ;) > > > > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that > smoke? > '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... > '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! > NAMGBR #5-2328 > http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 30 21:36:04 2007 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 20:36:04 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] A couple of uninteresting pictures In-Reply-To: <489651.65792.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What you don't realize is that Lucas pioneered the concept of under-car neon lighting back in the 60s, with the Riley Elf and Wolseley Hornet "Dub Editions"... Sadly, the lighting never worked, and the trend didn't catch on. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/30/07 3:35 PM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay at yahoo.com wrote: > Yo, yo Dan, whaz up?! > If you have some red paint, hook me up. ;-) > No, sorry, these cars are British so perhaps I > should have been more conservative. I should have > used flat black paint. > I'd consider the purple neon lights but being in > the realm of Lucas, they'd probably be dark anyway. > > rick > > --- Dan DiBiase wrote: > >> Rick Lindsay wrote: And a coat >> of gloss black paint, seen drying in this shot >> http://www.aubard.us/MGB/HPIM0656.JPG . The finish >> is >> now uniformaly smooth and neat. >> >> ---------------- >> Black is so boring, Rick, why not a nice coat of red >> to match the car? You can paint the front calipers >> to match!! Next up: purple neon lites underneath! ;) >> >> >> >> >> Dan D >> Central NJ USA >> '76 MGB Tourer - Driver - What's that >> smoke? >> '65 MGB Tourer Project - Yep, still is.... >> '04 Audi A4 1.8T q MT-6 - quattro, baby! >> NAMGBR #5-2328 >> http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ From Rabeys at aol.com Sat Jun 30 22:03:59 2007 From: Rabeys at aol.com (Rabeys at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 00:03:59 EDT Subject: [Mgs] brake bleeding question Message-ID: I got the MC and brake lines all back together and tried bleeding the brakes today. I'm done, but I think I will probably do it once more with someone to watch/help. I used a self bleed hose...the kind you attach and secure with a clamp and the put in the jar, no extra fluid necessary because it has some kind of valve that won't let air back in when you are pumping. So I guess my question is, how should the brake pedal feel after I'm done with each brake. I started with the rear wheel furthest away from the MC. I would pump many, many times and it still seemed like I had some big air bubbles. Sometimes the brake would feel like the pressure was building up, but because I thought there were still bubbles, I continued pumping and then all of a sudden there would be no pressure. I went through this until I thought I had most bubbles out and some good pressure. Both my rear tires were a pain, and I did monitor the MC and keep it topped off. I also checked the hose to make sure it was on etc. The front brakes were no problem. A few pumps and I had pressure and no bubbles...the bleed nipples were bigger up front so I wonder if the seal was better and I wasnt sucking in air. Thinking maybe this "self bleed" hose may still need someone to monitor it. Thoughts or suggestions on this? Thanks for the help...Stephanie ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From Rabeys at aol.com Sat Jun 30 22:49:00 2007 From: Rabeys at aol.com (Rabeys at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 00:49:00 EDT Subject: [Mgs] brake bleeding question Message-ID: Thanks for the tip...going to print out your email and re-do with some help. I have bled brakes before but i was always the brake pumper. It dawned on me though when I was thinking about the bleed nipple being bigger in front, that there is some attachment on that hose that says to use it for the "mini nipples". Its basically a smaller hole in a plastic piece that you shove the hose through to constrict it more. Like I said it worked great on the front brakes. I may try it again on the rear, but I will still have someone there to watch how its doing. If it works great, then I know I can use it in a pinch, but I have a feeling will be resorting to the old method. I don't want to resort to the Fred Flintstone method of braking. And I'll make sure my helper knows the difference between the clutch and brake pedals! haha Thanks, steph ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From frankk at intap.net Fri Jun 29 14:55:54 2007 From: frankk at intap.net (frank) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:55:54 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Laws for British Sports Cars Message-ID: <000d01c7ba8f$e3c581d0$e78a0fce@D3N5Y331> A friend sent this to me and I hadn't seen it before. Frank Krajewski The Laws for British Sports Cars John's Cars, Inc. Most of us are familiar with the physical laws thought up by Isaac Newton, the guy who invented gravity. He said things like "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" and "If you sit under a tree long enough, an apple will eventually fall on your head, provided you are sitting under an apple tree." Isaac was considered very intelligent and was eventually responsible for the invention of calculus, which was a new kind of math for people who thought math wasn't already hard enough. He is also the reason why, even today, people who work in apple orchards often wear large, protective hats. Newton's Laws made sense for hundreds of years, and everybody believed them. They believed them right up until the time when British sports cars were invented, when it was suddenly realized that a whole new bunch of laws was going to be needed. Many distinguished scientists have worked their entire lives to try and figure out why British autos never seem to obey any scientific laws known to man. These eminent scientists, with names like Morris, Healey, Leyland, Mowog, and Murphy, shook the scientific community when they published their new theory of mechanical behavior called "The Laws for British Sports Cars." Many people are not familiar with the five major laws, so they are listed below with a brief explanation of each. 1. Law of Peculiar Random Nomenclature The name of a British Sports Car shall consist primarily of letters and numbers, with said letters and numbers chosen in random fashion so that the resultant vehicle name is wholly devoid of meaning. This law explains why British cars always have spectacularly bad names like 'XKE' or worse yet, 'MGBGT'. 2. Law of Cryptic Instruction Any book, manual, pamphlet, or text dealing with the maintenance, repair, or restoration of a British Sports Car shall be written so that at least every fourth word will be unknown to the average reader. In the event that any portion of the text is understandable, the information contained therein shall be incorrect. Most people are familiar with this law. Here is an excerpt from page 132 of the MGA shop manual: "Before rebushing the lower grunnion banjos, you must remove the bonnet facia and undo the A-arm nut with a #3 spanner." All attempts to publish an English language version of this manual have failed. 3. Love of Hardship Law The more a British Sports Car malfunctions, breaks, and/or falls apart, the more endearing it becomes to the owner. You buy a British Sports Car. You have had it a year and a half, and have replaced every item on the car at least twice. When the engine is started it sounds as if someone has thrown a handful of ball bearings into a blender. But when someone offers to buy it, you are offended because "It's like part of the family, and besides, it's so much fun to drive." British Sports Car owners often stare into space and smile a lot. This is referred to as the "Foolish Person Syndrome." 4. Law of Non-Functional Attributes All British Sports Cars, regardless of condition or age, shall always have at least one system or sub-system of components which is entirely non-functional, and cannot be repaired except on a semi-permanent or semi-functional basis. This is also known as the famous Lucas Electrics Law. 5. Recently Discovered Component Failure Law Any component of a British Sports Car which is entirely unknown to the owner shall function perfectly, until such time that the owner becomes aware of the component's existence, when it shall instantly fail. Case in point: I have owned a rather natty MGB for six years. I never knew there was such a thing as a 'Gulp Valve' until I saw new ones offered for sale by Moss Motors. The next day, driving my MGB to work, the Gulp Valve fell off the motor and was run over by a truck. I do not know what the Gulp Valve gulps, nor do I particularly care to know, since it sounds messy and dangerous. But I figured I would buy a new Gulp Valve and install it myself. One look at the shop manual and I decided to have somebody else install it (see Law of Cryptic Instructions, above). While I'm driving the car over to the local repair establishment, I notice that the MGB is performing just as well as it ever did and that the loss of the mysterious Gulp Valve has not had any effect on its behavior. I figure this is due to the Non-functional Attribute Law, which means that the Gulp Valve probably wasn't gulping anything anyway, so I decided not to replace it after all. Three days later the engine had no more oil in it and promptly seized into a solid mass of metal. The tow truck operator, being ignorant of the Love of Hardship Law, offered to take the car off my hands for $100.00. I just smiled. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. 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