From m1garandusa at verizon.net  Sat Aug  2 18:03:30 2008
From: m1garandusa at verizon.net (James J.)
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:03:30 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Free MGB-GT in DC area
In-Reply-To: <00c701c8eb10$3ecebf40$0200a8c0@Three>
References: <000a01c8ead2$f7e83080$13f15061@ownerac837cb56>
	<001601c8ead7$ad9e9aa0$0201a8c0@DBHKTHD1>
	<00c701c8eb10$3ecebf40$0200a8c0@Three>
Message-ID: <4894F5D2.3080204@verizon.net>

All,
    I live in the DC metro area.  A neighbor complained to the county 
about my 77 B roadster in the driveway.  The county sent me a letter 
telling me that I need to dispose of it in 2 weeks.  That means hiding 
it where I presently keep my rubber-bumper 74 1/2 B-GT in the back yard.

Since it will be years before I start on that project, and I hate to 
just junk it, I've decided to give it to anyone who wants to come take 
it.  It is complete (there's a caveat, though), but in rough condition.  
It'll need the usual rocker-panel replacement and new door-skins.  I 
don't know if it runs, but there's the catch:  The person who sold it to 
me wants the engine, so (unless I can't track them down) the engine will 
need to be returned to the original owner at some point.

Anyhow, if anyone wants to come to Silver Spring Maryland and pick it 
up, it's free for the taking.

V/R
James Jewell
301.592.1431

p.s. Dave, if you still want the engine, please e-mail me or call me.  I 
no longer have your contact info.

From m1garandusa at verizon.net  Sun Aug  3 17:57:13 2008
From: m1garandusa at verizon.net (James J.)
Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:57:13 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Contact info for Dave Michel
In-Reply-To: <4894F5D2.3080204@verizon.net>
References: <000a01c8ead2$f7e83080$13f15061@ownerac837cb56>
	<001601c8ead7$ad9e9aa0$0201a8c0@DBHKTHD1>
	<00c701c8eb10$3ecebf40$0200a8c0@Three> <4894F5D2.3080204@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <489645D9.7050103@verizon.net>

Is Dave Michel reading this, or does anyone have any contact info for him?
V/R
James Jewell
301.592.1431

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Aug  4 09:10:33 2008
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:10:33 +0100
Subject: [Mgb-v8] 99,999
Message-ID: <002101c8f649$970d5ce0$0200a8c0@Three>

For the first time in over 40 years and more than a dozen cars at long last
I've had one go round the clock - the V8.

http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/00000.htm

Not only that but this was it's 2nd time round, so it is now on its 3rd!  It's
the original engine, and judging by the piston markings has only had one
rebore, and I reckon that must be getting on for at least 100k ago as I've
done 75k and there is no mention of it in the immediate POs list of work done.
I did the top-end and cam and followers just a couple of years ago, and while
the heads were off could still see the honing marks over most of the bore
surfaces.  Over the winter I'll take the sump off and investigate the big
ends, mains and crank, and then take a view on another rebore and regrind.

PaulH.

From cmfloyd at chartertn.net  Mon Aug  4 11:11:36 2008
From: cmfloyd at chartertn.net (Carl Floyd)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:11:36 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Contact info for Dave Michel
References: <000a01c8ead2$f7e83080$13f15061@ownerac837cb56><001601c8ead7$ad9e9aa0$0201a8c0@DBHKTHD1><00c701c8eb10$3ecebf40$0200a8c0@Three>
	<4894F5D2.3080204@verizon.net> <489645D9.7050103@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c8f655$27288880$6501a8c0@soprana>

James,

Jim Stuart can put you in touch with Dave.

Carl

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James J." <m1garandusa at verizon.net>
To: <mgb-v8 at autox.team.net>; <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:57 PM
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Contact info for Dave Michel


> Is Dave Michel reading this, or does anyone have any contact info for him?
> V/R
> James Jewell
> 301.592.1431
> _______________________________________________

From roger1 at eagle-carbide.com  Mon Aug  4 11:53:42 2008
From: roger1 at eagle-carbide.com (roger1 at eagle-carbide.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:53:42 +0000
Subject: [Mgb-v8] MGB V-8
Message-ID: <881272416-1217872368-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1575635837-@bxe007.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Can anyone add information regarding the MGB V8 I have standing in my garage.

It's titled as 1966 but was rebodied with one of the Brit Heritage bodies in early 90's.
It has a Rover V-8 and did have the older Lucas FI with flapper arm ( now updated). It has the Costello plenumn.
It also sported what I now understand is a Costello prototype 5 speed gearbox.
I've been told that this car may be one of a few built in St Louis in an aborted  attempt to produce V-8 Roadsters using or with support of the Ken Costello name.
The car has a date coded Costello plate attached to the "slam panel".
The dash is burled wood finish, the door panels are grey the carpets and soft top are black with green piping. The paint is E-type BR Green.
Front suspension is tube shocks, coil springs and lots of negative camber. Rear is solid axle with leaf springs, tube shocks and anti tramp bars. Wheels are splined minilite copies from UK.
I believe the car was once owned by a Brit living in the St Louis area, by the name of Robin Weatheral (sp)
I purchased the car in Virginia some time ago as a future project car.
I'm trying to evaluate the value I should place on originality (St Louis rebuild time frame) rather than just do it my way and maybe regret it later.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Roger comer

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From barrie at look.ca  Tue Aug  5 16:10:08 2008
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:10:08 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] IGNORE TEST ONLY
Message-ID: <E1KQUjO-0002EF-Ic@alpha.look.ca>

TEST ONE - 6.09 TUESDAY

Regards
Barrie

Barrie Robinson
(705) 721-9060
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
http://www.britcot.com 

From barrie at look.ca  Tue Aug  5 16:26:20 2008
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:26:20 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Back from the void
Message-ID: <E1KQUz8-0007C6-SI@zeta.look.ca>

Gentlemen,

For the past few weeks (maybe months!) I have not been receiving 
emails from the list so I might have missed things.  Some little 
gremlin somehow cut me off from the list and all the associated help 
addresses.  After tons of attempts to restore things and in 
desperation I called Mark Bradakis and explained my problem and also 
asked for an Aston Martin list.   The Aston Martin list came up fast 
and now a few days later I am up on the list.


Regards

Barrie Robinson

705-721-9060 (Canada)
MGB GT V8
Aston Martin DB 2/4 MkII in the wings
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm            TRY 
www.britcot.com - a unique web site for car goodies

From barrie at look.ca  Thu Aug  7 09:23:00 2008
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:23:00 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] What's in a G
Message-ID: <E1KR7KW-000482-As@eta.look.ca>

I had occasion to chat to my local Brit car garage.  He asked for my 
VIN number.  When I gave it to him he said that he rarely saw VIN 
numbers ending with"G" as mine did.

What does the "G" signify?

Thank you in advance for your erudite responses - as well as the 
hilarious - and yes. the reference to the "G" spot has already been realised!

Regards
Barrie

Barrie Robinson
(705) 721-9060
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
http://www.britcot.com 

From lists at brits-n-pieces.com  Thu Aug  7 16:55:26 2008
From: lists at brits-n-pieces.com (Brits'n'Pieces (Eric Frenken))
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 00:55:26 +0200
Subject: [Mgb-v8] What's in a G
In-Reply-To: <E1KR7KW-000482-As@eta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAPO6xBf31l1Dm6bMijCNPYbCgAAAEAAAAKrZGJoxJLhJoJkWkeNwi9oBAAAAAA==@brits-n-pieces.com>

What does the "G" signify?

I think Abingdon built, but others might know better ....

Eric
Heinsberg/Germany
www.brits-n-pieces.com

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Aug  8 02:07:41 2008
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:07:41 +0100
Subject: [Mgb-v8] MGB V-8
References: <881272416-1217872368-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1575635837-@bxe007.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <01eb01c8f939$0fbd1080$0200a8c0@Three>

Costello didn't start producing his V8 conversions until the early 70s, and
they were both GTs and roadsters.  They had the carbs in the middle of the Vee
and the bonnet bulge, at least until Abingdon started producing their own.
AFAIK the gearbox came after he stopped producing the cars.  Sounds a bit of a
'bitsa' now, and despite the Costello plate (if genuine) I doubt it would be
worth much more than any conversion, even in the UK original Costello cars
don't command much of a premium, apparently.

But have you seen http://www.themgdoc.com/all_about_john.htm?  About John
Mangles who worked on "what was probably the first commercial V8 conversion
project performed in the area (St Louis)" with Ken Costello who happened to be
staying with him at the time.  No date given, but the implication is that it
was post 1986 which would explain the plenum and the gearbox.  It's possible
Ken gave him a plate as a result.  Includes a link to photos of a Green
roadster with Minilite-type wheels!  Could even be the car, in which case it
would be unique and of value interest-wise although still only worth what
someone will pay for it.  If John Mangles is still around he should be able to
confirm or deny and give you a lot more info if it is.

PaulH.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: roger1 at eagle-carbide.com
  To: mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:53 PM
  Subject: [Mgb-v8] MGB V-8


  Can anyone add information regarding the MGB V8 I have standing in my
garage.

  It's titled as 1966 but was rebodied with one of the Brit Heritage bodies in
early 90's.
  It has a Rover V-8 and did have the older Lucas FI with flapper arm ( now
updated). It has the Costello plenumn.
  It also sported what I now understand is a Costello prototype 5 speed
gearbox.
  I've been told that this car may be one of a few built in St Louis in an
aborted  attempt to produce V-8 Roadsters using or with support of the Ken
Costello name.
  The car has a date coded Costello plate attached to the "slam panel".
  The dash is burled wood finish, the door panels are grey the carpets and
soft top are black with green piping. The paint is E-type BR Green.
  Front suspension is tube shocks, coil springs and lots of negative camber.
Rear is solid axle with leaf springs, tube shocks and anti tramp bars. Wheels
are splined minilite copies from UK.
  I believe the car was once owned by a Brit living in the St Louis area, by
the name of Robin Weatheral (sp)
  I purchased the car in Virginia some time ago as a future project car.
  I'm trying to evaluate the value I should place on originality (St Louis
rebuild time frame) rather than just do it my way and maybe regret it later.
  Any information would be greatly appreciated.
  Roger comer

  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
  _______________________________________________
  Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html

  Mgb-v8 mailing list

  You are subscribed as paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk

  Mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Aug  9 09:12:11 2008
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:12:11 +0100
Subject: [Mgb-v8] VSCC Hill Climb, Prescott
Message-ID: <001801c8fa32$5ce7c0e0$0200a8c0@Three>

http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/vsccp08.htm

Some pictures from this event on 2nd and 3rd August.  Stunning display of
2-300 spectators pre-war cars in Orchard car park, as well as the
competitors.

From barrie at look.ca  Sat Aug  9 17:25:44 2008
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:25:44 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] New springs, no more hitting policemen.
In-Reply-To: <02ae01c6c148$9fec2fe0$eee3fea9@one>
References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060816101537.01eec828@look.ca>
	<02ae01c6c148$9fec2fe0$eee3fea9@one>
Message-ID: <E1KRxpa-0001bX-JL@zeta.look.ca>

Paul,

If you remember we corresponded about raising the rear of my MGB GT 
V8.  Well, I have been having trouble with hitting sleeping policemen 
(speed bumps) and also having difficulty with all sorts of driveways 
etc.  So I had new exhaust system put in which helped but also 
removed some previous bad workmanship so got more power - but still 
hitting.  Remembering that I was low at the rear I decided a look at 
at height.   With horror I measured 12" instead of 14.5" (centre of 
hub to bottom of chrome strip) at the front and I could not get the 
jack under the cross member.   This seems to have happened gradually 
as I have just recently noticed that the jack no longer goes 
under.   So with 13" at the back I was LOW.  So I have ordered bog 
standard new front springs and new rear springs from Moss- and they 
go in next week.





At 11:15 AM 8/16/2006, you wrote:
>My problem was grounding in country lanes, with new springs.  I extended the
>shackle plates by about an inch or so by cutting and shutting two pairs (so
>as only to have one weld in each).  See
>http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/wn_suspensionframe.htm, click on 'Ride Height',
>and scroll down to 'Extended Shackles'.
>
>
>PaulH.
>
>----- Original Message -----
> > ... so how do you raise it a
> > half inch?

Regards
Barrie

Barrie Robinson
(705) 721-9060
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
http://www.britcot.com 

From sdaustin at shaw.ca  Sat Aug  9 21:34:17 2008
From: sdaustin at shaw.ca (Austins)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 20:34:17 -0700
Subject: [Mgb-v8] New springs, no more hitting policemen.
References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060816101537.01eec828@look.ca>
	<02ae01c6c148$9fec2fe0$eee3fea9@one> <E1KRxpa-0001bX-JL@zeta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <BB09410BF58544109D0C12204E2E6470@HAL2005>

Barrie,

If it helps you out somewhat, I just installed new OEM springs on my '69 GT 
(not a V8).  Actually, I installed new leaf springs a while back and swapped 
out new 480 lb front springs (uprated road springs I believe they're called) 
from some old springs that were on the car when I bought it.  These dropped 
the ride height down to 12", much like your's.  This also raised the rear to 
16"!

I've since changed the front ones back to OEM GT springs and the ride height 
is just under 15" at the front and just over 15" at the rear.  There's a 
1/2" difference L to R (higher on the Right).

Cheers
Simon



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Barrie Robinson" <barrie at look.ca>
Subject: [Mgb-v8] New springs, no more hitting policemen.


> Paul,
>
> If you remember we corresponded about raising the rear of my MGB GT
> V8.  Well, I have been having trouble with hitting sleeping policemen
> (speed bumps) and also having difficulty with all sorts of driveways
> etc.  So I had new exhaust system put in which helped but also
> removed some previous bad workmanship so got more power - but still
> hitting.  Remembering that I was low at the rear I decided a look at
> at height.   With horror I measured 12" instead of 14.5" (centre of
> hub to bottom of chrome strip) at the front and I could not get the
> jack under the cross member.   This seems to have happened gradually
> as I have just recently noticed that the jack no longer goes
> under.   So with 13" at the back I was LOW.  So I have ordered bog
> standard new front springs and new rear springs from Moss- and they
> go in next week.

From barrie at look.ca  Wed Aug 27 08:31:15 2008
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:31:15 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] [Mgs] How many miles should a generator brush set last?
In-Reply-To: <20080826.161250.2380.13.MGBOB@juno.com>
References: <20080826.161250.2380.13.MGBOB@juno.com>
Message-ID: <E1KYMvl-0002rk-Js@theta.look.ca>

There is a bod who makes solid state voltage regulators.  He is going 
to make one for my 1955 Aston and he seems to have done an awful lot 
of these units - each customed to the gen/alt and fits inside the 
original core .  I had hoped he would come on the British Car Cottage 
Industries web site (www.britcot.com) but he has not done so yet.  He 
may be on next week


At 04:12 PM 8/26/2008, Bob Howard wrote:
>Simon,
>    One set in my TD lasted 25M miles or so, the second about 35M.
>    Easy to check the things, though, so do that first.  What you are
>looking for is clearance between the spring and the guide of the brush.
>If the spring is touching the guide, the brush is worn down to the point
>that it's not getting good contact.
>    The procedure for adjusting the regulator seems intimidating, but it
>works just as described in the workshop manual.
>Bob
>
>On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:07:52 -0700 "Simon Matthews"
><simon.d.matthews at gmail.com> writes:
> > My car  (MGA with original generator/regulator) is clearly not
> > charging the battery, so I need to investigate the charging system.
> >
> > It may be dirty contacts in the regulator, or it may be worn out
> > brushes in the generator. In order to know which to investigate
> > first,
> > it would be useful if I knew the expected life of a set of brushes
> > in
> > a generator.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Simon
>____________________________________________________________
>Click here for top quality Spyware removers.
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mEzAnTwSJBS2qP6RBdfo1IGIYgZk8YUkUDFxS1VHgjLLULT/
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>
>You are subscribed as barrie at look.ca
>
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs
>
>http://www.team.net/archive

Regards
Barrie

Barrie Robinson
(705) 721-9060
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
http://www.britcot.com 

From barrie at look.ca  Wed Aug 27 14:40:50 2008
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:40:50 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Shortened water pump
Message-ID: <E1KYRt6-0004Be-PF@epsilon.look.ca>

Some while back I had a bog standard Rover V8 (Buick) P591 water pump 
shortened so it was 3" back to front.  This allowed me to get in a 
BIG electric fan.  I have had some people in the UK saying they could 
want some.  So I am in the process of getting a quote for a 
batch.  The size of the batch makes a big difference to price - and I 
wonder who else would be interested in such a unit.  I have no idea 
of price but will no doubt will find out.

So if you are interested please let me know soon .....and if you want 
more than one (spare!)



Regards
Barrie

Barrie Robinson
(705) 721-9060
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
http://www.britcot.com 

From graytesla at aol.com  Thu Aug 28 11:57:41 2008
From: graytesla at aol.com (graytesla at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:57:41 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fwd:  Shortened water pump
In-Reply-To: <E1KYgvq-0002Di-Vj@eta.look.ca>
References: <E1KYRt6-0004Be-PF@epsilon.look.ca>
	<8CAD6A924DAA534-4E0-1BAC@webmail-de02.sysops.aol.com>
	<E1KYgvq-0002Di-Vj@eta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <8CAD74EB33578B4-374-BA9@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com>

Barrie,

First, thanks for the quick response. However, I'm still not sure my question was understood. 

I've looked at the picture of the?modified water pump and?a 3 inch thick unit?would indeed benefit my application. 

As you stated it appears that the body of the water pump has been machined on its "engine side" and that the protruding nose of the shaft have been machined off. The water pump pulley mounting flange has been pressed toward the body of the pump and the overall change offers a considerable savings in length.?? 

Now for the difficulty.??Since the pulley?mounting flange has been moved toward the engine and with the pump body itself machined to reduce its overall thickness, the pulley, when mounted, would be in a different plan than the crankshaft drive pulley.... unless I'm missing something. Such a misalignment would induce drive belt flip off.? Can you enlighten me further? I am trainable.

Darius



-----Original Message-----
From: Barrie Robinson <barrie at look.ca>
To: graytesla at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 6:48 am
Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Shortened water pump

Darius,

No change to pulley.? The unit is just made shorter by machining the body back and machining out for the bearing and cutting the axle back and retaining the thing onto which the pulley is bolted.?? See photo

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ShortPumpSide.jpg"; x-mac-type="4A504547"; x-mac-creator="4A565752]

From cmfloyd at chartertn.net  Thu Aug 28 13:43:14 2008
From: cmfloyd at chartertn.net (Carl Floyd)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:43:14 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fwd:  Shortened water pump
References: <E1KYRt6-0004Be-PF@epsilon.look.ca><8CAD6A924DAA534-4E0-1BAC@webmail-de02.sysops.aol.com><E1KYgvq-0002Di-Vj@eta.look.ca>
	<8CAD74EB33578B4-374-BA9@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <000301c90946$4fc5e5e0$6401a8c0@soprana>

Maybe this article will help:

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Shortie-Water-Pump.htm


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <graytesla at aol.com>
To: <barrie at look.ca>
Cc: <mgb-v8 at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:57 PM
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fwd: Shortened water pump


> Barrie,
>
> First, thanks for the quick response. However, I'm still not sure my 
> question was understood.
>
> I've looked at the picture of the?modified water pump and?a 3 inch thick 
> unit?would indeed benefit my application.
>
> As you stated it appears that the body of the water pump has been machined 
> on its "engine side" and that the protruding nose of the shaft have been 
> machined off. The water pump pulley mounting flange has been pressed 
> toward the body of the pump and the overall change offers a considerable 
> savings in length.??
>
> Now for the difficulty.??Since the pulley?mounting flange has been moved 
> toward the engine and with the pump body itself machined to reduce its 
> overall thickness, the pulley, when mounted, would be in a different plan 
> than the crankshaft drive pulley.... unless I'm missing something. Such a 
> misalignment would induce drive belt flip off.? Can you enlighten me 
> further? I am trainable.
>
> Darius
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barrie Robinson <barrie at look.ca>
> To: graytesla at aol.com
> Sent: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 6:48 am
> Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Shortened water pump
>
> Darius,
>
> No change to pulley.? The unit is just made shorter by machining the body 
> back and machining out for the bearing and cutting the axle back and 
> retaining the thing onto which the pulley is bolted.?? See photo
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> ShortPumpSide.jpg"; x-mac-type="4A504547"; x-mac-creator="4A565752]
> _______________________________________________

From dkern at napanet.net  Thu Aug 28 23:58:27 2008
From: dkern at napanet.net (David Kernberger)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:58:27 -0700
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fwd:  Shortened water pump
In-Reply-To: <000301c90946$4fc5e5e0$6401a8c0@soprana>
References: <E1KYRt6-0004Be-PF@epsilon.look.ca><8CAD6A924DAA534-4E0-1BAC@webmail-de02.
	sysops.aol.com><E1KYgvq-0002Di-Vj@eta.look.ca>
	<8CAD74EB33578B4-374-BA9@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com>
	<000301c90946$4fc5e5e0$6401a8c0@soprana>
Message-ID: <f05111b01c4dd3d58de70@[204.14.185.185]>

To all,

	For what it is worth, I am with Darius.  It seems to me that 
either this short pump will require a pulley with a different amount 
of offset, or the other pulleys in the system will also need to be 
changed to match.  All pulley grooves for a single belt must lie in 
the same plane.  I even wonder if the short pump might locate the fan 
in the old belt plane??  Or maybe awfully close?  Am I missing 
something here also???

Cheers,
Dave K.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

>Maybe this article will help:
>
>http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Shortie-Water-Pump.htm


Carl

>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>  Barrie,
>>
>>	First, thanks for the quick response. However, I'm still not sure my
>>  question was understood.
>>
>  > I've looked at the picture of the modified water pump and a 3 inch thick
>  > unit would indeed benefit my application.
>  >
>>  As you stated it appears that the body of the water pump has been machined
>>  on its "engine side" and that the protruding nose of the shaft have been
>>  machined off. The water pump pulley mounting flange has been pressed
>>  toward the body of the pump and the overall change offers a considerable
>  > savings in length.
>  >
>  > Now for the difficulty.  Since the pulley mounting flange has been moved
>  > toward the engine and with the pump body itself machined to reduce its
>>  overall thickness, the pulley, when mounted, would be in a different plane
>>  than the crankshaft drive pulley.... unless I'm missing something. Such a
>  > misalignment would induce drive belt flip off.  Can you enlighten me
>  > further? I am trainable.


Darius

---------------------------------------------------------------

>  >Darius,
>  >
>  >	No change to the pulley. The unit is just made shorter by 
>machining the body back and machining out for the bearing and 
>cutting the axle back and
>retaining the thing onto which the pulley is bolted. See photo.

Barrie

From barrie at look.ca  Fri Aug 29 07:06:41 2008
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:06:41 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fwd:  Shortened water pump
In-Reply-To: <f05111b01c4dd3d58de70@[204.14.185.185]>
References: <E1KYRt6-0004Be-PF@epsilon.look.ca>
	<8CAD6A924DAA534-4E0-1BAC@webmail-de02. sysops.aol.com>
	<E1KYgvq-0002Di-Vj@eta.look.ca>
	<8CAD74EB33578B4-374-BA9@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com>
	<000301c90946$4fc5e5e0$6401a8c0@soprana>
	<f05111b01c4dd3d58de70@[204.14.185.185]>
Message-ID: <E1KZ40f-0006TP-OY@eta.look.ca>

David et al,

I did not install my engine (no facilities for large lumps).  All I 
can say is that it was, and is, installed and works.  The chaps who 
did it listed all the problems they had with the installation (to 
justify their invoice!) and this was not a problem area !!!!!  If 
anyone wants I can take photos and send.



At 01:58 AM 8/29/2008, David Kernberger wrote:
>To all,
>
>         For what it is worth, I am with Darius.  It seems to me that
>either this short pump will require a pulley with a different amount
>of offset, or the other pulleys in the system will also need to be
>changed to match.  All pulley grooves for a single belt must lie in
>the same plane.  I even wonder if the short pump might locate the fan
>in the old belt plane??  Or maybe awfully close?  Am I missing
>something here also???
>
>Cheers,
>Dave K.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >Maybe this article will help:
> >
> >http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Shortie-Water-Pump.htm
>
>
>Carl
>
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >>  Barrie,
> >>
> >>      First, thanks for the quick response. However, I'm still not sure my
> >>  question was understood.
> >>
> >  > I've looked at the picture of the modified water pump and a 3 inch thick
> >  > unit would indeed benefit my application.
> >  >
> >>  As you stated it appears that the body of the water pump has 
> been machined
> >>  on its "engine side" and that the protruding nose of the shaft have been
> >>  machined off. The water pump pulley mounting flange has been pressed
> >>  toward the body of the pump and the overall change offers a considerable
> >  > savings in length.
> >  >
> >  > Now for the difficulty.  Since the pulley mounting flange has been moved
> >  > toward the engine and with the pump body itself machined to reduce its
> >>  overall thickness, the pulley, when mounted, would be in a 
> different plane
> >>  than the crankshaft drive pulley.... unless I'm missing something. Such a
> >  > misalignment would induce drive belt flip off.  Can you enlighten me
> >  > further? I am trainable.
>
>
>Darius
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >  >Darius,
> >  >
> >  >    No change to the pulley. The unit is just made shorter by
> >machining the body back and machining out for the bearing and
> >cutting the axle back and
> >retaining the thing onto which the pulley is bolted. See photo.
>
>Barrie
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Mgb-v8 mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as barrie at look.ca
>
>Mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8

Regards
Barrie

Barrie Robinson
(705) 721-9060
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
http://www.britcot.com 

From barrie at look.ca  Fri Aug 29 08:07:19 2008
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:07:19 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] shortened water pump
In-Reply-To: <003901c909da$fbd831a0$020fa8c0@RONWS>
References: <002e01c9091f$8507b200$020fa8c0@RONWS>
	<E1KYo5n-0008AC-TM@eta.look.ca> <003901c909da$fbd831a0$020fa8c0@RONWS>
Message-ID: <E1KZ4mG-0001Jr-Q6@zeta.look.ca>

Ron,

I am really surprise at the fuss the pulley has caused and so I 
called the shop who did the work.  Naturally after 6-7 years they had 
no clear recollection.   The chap said he felt sure it was an SD1 or 
Buick crank pulley he used - no special work.  I suppose I could get 
under the car and see what is what but at this time it is having new 
springs fitted (front sagged to 12", rear to 13" and I was scraping 
the bottom).  I also have some trouble with the traction bars as the 
new Moss springs are fatter than currently installed and it is 
missing bolts to floor.


At 09:27 AM 8/29/2008, you wrote:
>ON reading the list I see a person has asked a good question. The 
>pulley definetly looks like it will be in a different plane now.
>I saw the article in the V8 magizine and it has the pulley closer to 
>the engine. ??
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:barrie at look.ca>Barrie Robinson
>To: <mailto:rshellen at comcast.net>Ron Shellenberger
>Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 4:27 PM
>Subject: Re: shortened water pump
>
>Ron,
>
>
>Your name is on the list!!
>
>
>At 11:05 AM 8/28/2008, you wrote:
>>I have a Buick engine waiting on a body and a Rover SD1 that I want 
>>to restore. Will I ever get to them, who knows. If you will take a 
>>maybe to figure cost , count me in for 2. Depending on cost I may 
>>still get them even though the projects are a ways off.
>>Ron Shellenberger
>
>Regards
>Barrie
>
>Barrie Robinson
>(705) 721-9060
>http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
>http://www.britcot.com

Regards
Barrie

Barrie Robinson
(705) 721-9060
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
http://www.britcot.com 

From dkern at napanet.net  Fri Aug 29 12:57:32 2008
From: dkern at napanet.net (David Kernberger)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:57:32 -0700
Subject: [Mgb-v8] shortened water pump
In-Reply-To: <E1KZ4mG-0001Jr-Q6@zeta.look.ca>
References: <002e01c9091f$8507b200$020fa8c0@RONWS>
	<E1KYo5n-0008AC-TM@eta.look.ca> <003901c909da$fbd831a0$020fa8c0@RONWS>
	<E1KZ4mG-0001Jr-Q6@zeta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <f05111b00c4ddf33e9a20@[204.14.185.80]>

Barrie et al,

	Perhaps I spoke up a bit too soon and without enough 
knowledge of the particular situation.  Please forgive me.  I saw the 
side by side comparison picture but my old slow computer would not 
show me the V8 magazine article.  My comments were based on the 
simple assumption that the pulleys had aligned properly with the 
unmodified pump in place.  Now it appears that nobody knows if that 
was true.  In fact nobody even knows what crank pulley and/or 
generator pulleys were used, or if anything else was changed at all. 
So it is about as clear as mud.

	The only thing we know for sure is that, if things line up OK 
BEFORE the pump is modified, they won't align properly AFTER the pump 
is modified, unless other pulleys are also modified.  It really is 
just that simple.

	My 2 cents worth.  I will shut up now.

Cheers,
Dave K.

----------------------------------------------------------------

>Ron,
>
>I am really surprised at the fuss the pulley has caused and so I
>called the shop who did the work.  Naturally after 6-7 years they had
>no clear recollection.   The chap said he felt sure it was an SD1 or
>Buick crank pulley he used - no special work.  I suppose I could get
>under the car and see what is what but at this time it is having new
>springs fitted (front sagged to 12", rear to 13" and I was scraping
>the bottom).  I also have some trouble with the traction bars as the
>new Moss springs are fatter than currently installed and it is
>missing bolts to floor.


Barrie

-----------------------------------------------------------------

>
>
>At 09:27 AM 8/29/2008, you wrote:
>  >	On reading the list I see a person has asked a good question. The
>  >pulley definitly looks like it will be in a different plane now.
>  >I saw the article in the V8 magizine and it has the pulley closer to
>the engine.

From GrayTesla at aol.com  Fri Aug 29 14:26:41 2008
From: GrayTesla at aol.com (GrayTesla at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:26:41 EDT
Subject: [Mgb-v8] For Clarity --  shortened water pump
Message-ID: <c4c.383169f9.35e9b581@aol.com>

Let me offer my limited knowledge on modified cooling systems for our 
favorite 215 engine.
 
My applications have been limited to a Chevrolet Vega and to various 
iterations in Chevrolet Corvairs. The Vega presented no problem as the standard water 
pump and stock radiator kept everything appropriately cool. The Corvairs were 
another matter.
 
There are two shelves in my garage filled with sundry high priced electric 
fans of different sizes and various manufacturers. There are also modified front 
covers which were combined with JabsCo electric water pumps and at least 
three different custom radiators. The vehicles in question were being prepare to 
be driven daily.
 
With all of that said, I have also played with various pulley arrangements, 
both at the crank and at the water pump, and the alignment of those two pulley 
becomes more an issue if the vehicle is driven in a "sporting" manner.  
 
So, the intent of my first post was not to criticize Barrie's shortened water 
pump but to inquire about its fitment. Personal experience has shown that 
such matters can make the difference between a pleasant car and a troublesome 
car. 
 
I am YET interested in that 3" pump and would yet like to hear a price. If in 
the final analysis the lower crankshaft pulley is problematic, which I 
believe it will be, it becomes an invitation for creative problem solving.
 
Best to you all,
 
Darius



**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel 
deal here.      
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

From dkern at napanet.net  Fri Aug 29 15:59:40 2008
From: dkern at napanet.net (David Kernberger)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:59:40 -0700
Subject: [Mgb-v8] shortened water pump
In-Reply-To: <000501c90a0f$3cb59490$6401a8c0@soprana>
References: <002e01c9091f$8507b200$020fa8c0@RONWS><E1KYo5n-0008AC-TM@eta.look.ca>
	<003901c909da$fbd831a0$020fa8c0@RONWS><E1KZ4mG-0001Jr-Q6@zeta.look.ca>
	<f05111b00c4ddf33e9a20@[204.14.185.80]>
	<000501c90a0f$3cb59490$6401a8c0@soprana>
Message-ID: <f05111b00c4de1fbb79c8@[204.14.185.176]>

	Excuse me, but all the postings I saw clearly stated NO 
PULLEY CHANGE at all was necessary when the pump was modified 
according to the side by side comparison picture.  If the pulley was 
actually changed, then I have no idea where this question even 
originated.  I can only guess there must have been some careless 
readings by somebody of someone else's explanations.

I said I would shut up.  This time I mean it.

Cheers,
Dave K.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

>David,
>
>Let me help you with that mud.  ;)
>
>The stock water pump with our setup has a pulley with a lot of 
>offset toward the water pump. The only pulley that has to be changed 
>is the water pump pulley.
>
>Here's a pic of Barrie's engine with the shortened pump:
>
>http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson/BarrieRobinson-H.jpg
>
>Compare that with the offset on Mike Moor's water pump pulley:
>
>http://www.britishv8.org/MG/MikelMoor/MikelMoor-H.JPG
>
>Carl Floyd

From cmfloyd at chartertn.net  Fri Aug 29 19:01:48 2008
From: cmfloyd at chartertn.net (Carl Floyd)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:01:48 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] shortened water pump
References: <002e01c9091f$8507b200$020fa8c0@RONWS><E1KYo5n-0008AC-TM@eta.look.ca>
	<003901c909da$fbd831a0$020fa8c0@RONWS><E1KZ4mG-0001Jr-Q6@zeta.look.ca>
	<f05111b00c4ddf33e9a20@[204.14.185.80]>
	<000501c90a0f$3cb59490$6401a8c0@soprana>
	<f05111b00c4de1fbb79c8@[204.14.185.176]>
Message-ID: <003101c90a3b$faea5820$6401a8c0@soprana>

"...all the postings I saw clearly stated NO PULLEY CHANGE at all was 
necessary when the pump was modified "

I've re-read all the emails I received and can find no reference to this. It 
is quite obvious that something has to change. The stock water pump pulley 
isn't going to even bolt up to the modified water pump. Changing the water 
pump pulley is easier, anyway,  than changing the other two (or three if AC 
is involved).

Carl


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Kernberger" <dkern at napanet.net>
To: "Carl Floyd" <cmfloyd at chartertn.net>
Cc: "MG" <mgb-v8 at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] shortened water pump


> Excuse me, but all the postings I saw clearly stated NO PULLEY CHANGE at 
> all was necessary when the pump was modified according to the side by side 
> comparison picture.  If the pulley was actually changed, then I have no 
> idea where this question even originated.  I can only guess there must 
> have been some careless readings by somebody of someone else's 
> explanations.
>
> I said I would shut up.  This time I mean it.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave K.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>David,
>>
>>Let me help you with that mud.  ;)
>>
>>The stock water pump with our setup has a pulley with a lot of offset 
>>toward the water pump. The only pulley that has to be changed is the water 
>>pump pulley.
>>
>>Here's a pic of Barrie's engine with the shortened pump:
>>
>>http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson/BarrieRobinson-H.jpg
>>
>>Compare that with the offset on Mike Moor's water pump pulley:
>>
>>http://www.britishv8.org/MG/MikelMoor/MikelMoor-H.JPG
>>
>>Carl Floyd

From GrayTesla at aol.com  Fri Aug 29 19:09:14 2008
From: GrayTesla at aol.com (GrayTesla at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:09:14 EDT
Subject: [Mgb-v8] I see the light!! (shortened water pump)
Message-ID: <c99.32404d5a.35e9f7ba@aol.com>

<<Here's a pic of Barrie's engine with the shortened pump:
_http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson/BarrieRobinson-H.jpg_ 
(http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson/BarrieRobinson-H.jpg) 

Compare that with the offset on Mike Moor's water pump pulley:
_http://www.britishv8.org/MG/MikelMoor/MikelMoor-H.JPG_ 
(http://www.britishv8.org/MG/MikelMoor/MikelMoor-H.JPG) 

Carl Floyd>>
 
Dave is right in that originally it was stated that no change in either 
pulley was needed. 
 
However, Carl's pictures have cleared the entire mess up -- at least for me. 
I can see from the two pictures that the actual plane remains the same in the 
modification and therefore the pump pulley is in alignment with the crank 
pulley. The difference is in how far forward the remainder of the pump sits in its 
original configuration.
 
Overall, a very nice savings allowing much needed space. Thanks again to Carl 
for those pictures and to Barrie for "gettin er done."
 
Darius




**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel 
deal here.      
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

From cmfloyd at chartertn.net  Sat Aug 30 07:17:24 2008
From: cmfloyd at chartertn.net (Carl Floyd)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:17:24 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] I see the light!! (shortened water pump)
References: <c99.32404d5a.35e9f7ba@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000701c90aa2$be64da30$6401a8c0@soprana>

"...originally it was stated that no change in either pulley was needed. "

Still looking for that reference.

Carl

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: GrayTesla at aol.com
  To: dkern at napanet.net ; cmfloyd at chartertn.net
  Cc: mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
  Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 9:09 PM
  Subject: Re: I see the light!! (shortened water pump)


  <<Here's a pic of Barrie's engine with the shortened pump:
  http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson/BarrieRobinson-H.jpg

  Compare that with the offset on Mike Moor's water pump pulley:
  http://www.britishv8.org/MG/MikelMoor/MikelMoor-H.JPG

  Carl Floyd>>

  Dave is right in that originally it was stated that no change in either
pulley was needed.

  However, Carl's pictures have cleared the entire mess up -- at least for me.
I can see from the two pictures that the actual plane remains the same in the
modification and therefore the pump pulley is in alignment with the crank
pulley. The difference is in how far forward the remainder of the pump sits in
its original configuration.

  Overall, a very nice savings allowing much needed space. Thanks again to
Carl for those pictures and to Barrie for "gettin er done."

  Darius






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
  It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.

From barrie at look.ca  Sat Aug 30 08:39:23 2008
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:39:23 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] I see the light!! (shortened water pump)
In-Reply-To: <000701c90aa2$be64da30$6401a8c0@soprana>
References: <c99.32404d5a.35e9f7ba@aol.com>
	<000701c90aa2$be64da30$6401a8c0@soprana>
Message-ID: <E1KZRk0-0006Ob-SY@eta.look.ca>

Folks of MG persuasion

Carl is right - no mention was made stating that the plane remained 
the same.  It was said that the pulley remains the same - this is NOT 
the same as the plane.   If one looks at the picture at 
http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Shortie-Water-Pump.htm you will see 
that body was cut down and "re-bearinged".  Then the shaft was 
shortened and the pulley mount thing refitted.  So to be certain we 
all understand - these are the details


Engine is bog standard Rover 3.5L V8
Engine mounts are Towery A/C

Standard P591 water pump from Canadian Tire
Water pump body cut back at pulley side
New bearing inserted in new cut back position
Shaft shortened
Pulley mount refitted

RESULT

Overall length changed from 4" to 3"
Will accept SAME pulley as before
Belt plane now 1" closer to engine
Requires 1" shortened crank pulley (Buick or SD1)
Requires alternator to be moved back 1" (trivial!)


However, one point has been consistently ignored and that is it has 
been done and IT WORKS (approx 10K kilometres)  I have taken photos 
of the crank pulley and alternator/belt setup and if anyone wants 
them I will send.



At 09:17 AM 8/30/2008, Carl Floyd wrote:
>"...originally it was stated that no change in either pulley was needed. "
>
>Still looking for that reference.
>
>Carl
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: GrayTesla at aol.com
>   To: dkern at napanet.net ; cmfloyd at chartertn.net
>   Cc: mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
>   Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 9:09 PM
>   Subject: Re: I see the light!! (shortened water pump)
>
>
>   <<Here's a pic of Barrie's engine with the shortened pump:
>   http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson/BarrieRobinson-H.jpg
>
>   Compare that with the offset on Mike Moor's water pump pulley:
>   http://www.britishv8.org/MG/MikelMoor/MikelMoor-H.JPG
>
>   Carl Floyd>>
>
>   Dave is right in that originally it was stated that no change in either
>pulley was needed.
>
>   However, Carl's pictures have cleared the entire mess up -- at 
> least for me.
>I can see from the two pictures that the actual plane remains the same in the
>modification and therefore the pump pulley is in alignment with the crank
>pulley. The difference is in how far forward the remainder of the pump sits in
>its original configuration.
>
>   Overall, a very nice savings allowing much needed space. Thanks again to
>Carl for those pictures and to Barrie for "gettin er done."
>
>   Darius
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>   It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Mgb-v8 mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as barrie at look.ca
>
>Mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8

Regards
Barrie

Barrie Robinson
(705) 721-9060
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
http://www.britcot.com  

From GrayTesla at aol.com  Sat Aug 30 09:09:43 2008
From: GrayTesla at aol.com (GrayTesla at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:09:43 EDT
Subject: [Mgb-v8] For the sake of clarity (Shortened water pump)
Message-ID: <c13.3c92093e.35eabcb7@aol.com>

<<"...originally it was stated that no change in either pulley was needed. "

Still looking for that reference.
 
Carl>>

 
Carl,
 
I'm not sure what the words, "No change to pulley" would convey to you but 
when Barrie posted those words and then added, "The unit is just made shorter by 
machining the body  back and machining out for the bearing and cutting the 
axle back and retaining the thing onto which the pulley is bolted"  the clear 
impression to me, David and possibly others, was that there were no custom 
pulleys needed.  THAT is the reference.  
 
I hope this clears the matter of WHERE to find the reference (See complete 
original message below). 
 
You may have missed that posting or you may have read it differently but 
please understand that for some of us we took the words literally.  
 
The pictures you posted cleared the matter for me and I believe Barrie's 
shortened pump to be a very worthwhile addition for those who encounter clearance 
problems. The intent is not, and was not, to argue or disparage, but simply to 
inquire for the sake of clarity. My Inquiry has been satisfied and by way of 
this posting I certainly hope yours has been as well.
 
 
Darius
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Barrie Robinson <barrie at look.ca>
To: graytesla at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 6:48 am
Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Shortened water pump
>
> Darius,
>
> No change to pulley. The unit is just made shorter by machining the body 
> back and machining out for the bearing and cutting the axle back and 
> retaining the thing onto which the pulley is bolted. See photo
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> ShortPumpSide.jpg"; x-mac-type="4A504547"; x-mac-creator="4A565752]
> _______________________________________________







----- Original 






**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel 
deal here.      
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

From cmfloyd at chartertn.net  Sat Aug 30 11:21:52 2008
From: cmfloyd at chartertn.net (Carl Floyd)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:21:52 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] I see the light!! (shortened water pump)
References: <c99.32404d5a.35e9f7ba@aol.com>
	<000701c90aa2$be64da30$6401a8c0@soprana>
	<E1KZRk0-0006Ob-SY@eta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <000d01c90ac4$e5150e80$6401a8c0@soprana>

Barrie,

I would be interested depending on price & pump used. I much prefer the Buick
300 water pump.

Also, I would be looking for a 1" shallower water pump pulley. That, to me,
would be preferable to moving the other two. Plus, my Delco alternator is
already against the valve cover.

Carl
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Barrie Robinson
  To: Carl Floyd ; GrayTesla at aol.com ; dkern at napanet.net
  Cc: mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
  Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 10:39 AM
  Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] I see the light!! (shortened water pump)


  Folks of MG persuasion

  Carl is right - no mention was made stating that the plane remained the
same.  It was said that the pulley remains the same - this is NOT the same as
the plane.   If one looks at the picture at
http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Shortie-Water-Pump.htm you will see that
body was cut down and "re-bearinged".  Then the shaft was shortened and the
pulley mount thing refitted.  So to be certain we all understand - these are
the details


  Engine is bog standard Rover 3.5L V8
  Engine mounts are Towery A/C

  Standard P591 water pump from Canadian Tire
  Water pump body cut back at pulley side
  New bearing inserted in new cut back position
  Shaft shortened
  Pulley mount refitted

  RESULT

  Overall length changed from 4" to 3"
  Will accept SAME pulley as before
  Belt plane now 1" closer to engine
  Requires 1" shortened crank pulley (Buick or SD1)
  Requires alternator to be moved back 1" (trivial!)


  However, one point has been consistently ignored and that is it has been
done and IT WORKS (approx 10K kilometres)  I have taken photos of the crank
pulley and alternator/belt setup and if anyone wants them I will send.



  At 09:17 AM 8/30/2008, Carl Floyd wrote:

    "...originally it was stated that no change in either pulley was needed.
"

    Still looking for that reference.

    Carl

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: GrayTesla at aol.com
      To: dkern at napanet.net ; cmfloyd at chartertn.net
      Cc: mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
      Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 9:09 PM
      Subject: Re: I see the light!! (shortened water pump)


      <<Here's a pic of Barrie's engine with the shortened pump:
      http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson/BarrieRobinson-H.jpg

      Compare that with the offset on Mike Moor's water pump pulley:
      http://www.britishv8.org/MG/MikelMoor/MikelMoor-H.JPG

      Carl Floyd>>

      Dave is right in that originally it was stated that no change in either
    pulley was needed.

      However, Carl's pictures have cleared the entire mess up -- at least for
me.
    I can see from the two pictures that the actual plane remains the same in
the
    modification and therefore the pump pulley is in alignment with the crank
    pulley. The difference is in how far forward the remainder of the pump
sits in
    its original configuration.

      Overall, a very nice savings allowing much needed space. Thanks again
to
    Carl for those pictures and to Barrie for "gettin er done."

      Darius






    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
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here.
    _______________________________________________
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  Regards
  Barrie

  Barrie Robinson
  (705) 721-9060
  http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
  http://www.britcot.com

From cmfloyd at chartertn.net  Sat Aug 30 11:32:02 2008
From: cmfloyd at chartertn.net (Carl Floyd)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:32:02 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] For the sake of clarity (Shortened water pump)
References: <c13.3c92093e.35eabcb7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001901c90ac6$50cf6020$6401a8c0@soprana>

Darius,

Thanks. I wasn't copied on that email. I, personally, wouldn't do it that way.
That's part of the fun of these conversions. Every one does things their own
way.

Carl

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: GrayTesla at aol.com
  To: cmfloyd at chartertn.net ; dkern at napanet.net
  Cc: mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
  Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:09 AM
  Subject: Re: For the sake of clarity (Shortened water pump)


  <<"...originally it was stated that no change in either pulley was needed.
"
    Still looking for that reference.

    Carl>>

  Carl,

  I'm not sure what the words, "No change to pulley" would convey to you but
when Barrie posted those words and then added, "The unit is just made shorter
by machining the body  back and machining out for the bearing and cutting the
axle back and retaining the thing onto which the pulley is bolted"  the clear
impression to me, David and possibly others, was that there were no custom
pulleys needed.  THAT is the reference.

  I hope this clears the matter of WHERE to find the reference (See complete
original message below).

  You may have missed that posting or you may have read it differently but
please understand that for some of us we took the words literally.

  The pictures you posted cleared the matter for me and I believe Barrie's
shortened pump to be a very worthwhile addition for those who encounter
clearance problems. The intent is not, and was not, to argue or disparage, but
simply to inquire for the sake of clarity. My Inquiry has been satisfied and
by way of this posting I certainly hope yours has been as well.


  Darius

  -----Original Message-----
   From: Barrie Robinson <barrie at look.ca>
   To: graytesla at aol.com
   Sent: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 6:48 am
   Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Shortened water pump
  >
  > Darius,
  >
  > No change to pulley. The unit is just made shorter by machining the body
  > back and machining out for the bearing and cutting the axle back and
  > retaining the thing onto which the pulley is bolted. See photo
  >
  > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
  > ShortPumpSide.jpg"; x-mac-type="4A504547"; x-mac-creator="4A565752]
  > _______________________________________________





      ----- Original





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
  It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.

From GrayTesla at aol.com  Sat Aug 30 11:58:19 2008
From: GrayTesla at aol.com (GrayTesla at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:58:19 EDT
Subject: [Mgb-v8] So that we can all stay on the same page - here is
 what I sent Barrie today
Message-ID: <cfe.3c61d501.35eae43b@aol.com>

<<Carl is right - no mention was made stating that the plane remained 
the same.  It was said that the pulley remains the same - this is NOT 
the same as the plane.>>
 
Barrie, the pictures show that the water pump pulley DOES NOT remain the 
same. That difference is what affords the shortened pump to not protrude, yet have 
the drive portion, the groove, stay aligned.
 
No, I am not a MG owner and if my asking question here is uncomfortable for 
some I apologize. If as a non-MG 215 owner I am on the wrong forum please let 
me know. 
 
Barrie, I hope my note (For the Sake of Clarity) has shed light on why there 
was confusion for some of us. Now, I say it here for the third time: you are 
to be commended for this wonderful innovation -- HOWEVER, the words you 
original wrote obviously caused some confusion. There is not harm in that and no 
blame being place. People simply wish to understand the details. You may not be as 
directly involved with the actual mechanics as some of us but questions of 
pulleys and plane alignment can be significant matters. 
 
Again, no one is trying to disparage you. Please afford those of us who read 
your note literally the same curtesy. I'll now go quietly into that dark night.
 
Darius






**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel 
deal here.      
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

From m1garandusa at verizon.net  Sat Aug 30 12:37:37 2008
From: m1garandusa at verizon.net (James J.)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:37:37 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] So that we can all stay on the same page - here is
 what I sent Barrie today
In-Reply-To: <cfe.3c61d501.35eae43b@aol.com>
References: <cfe.3c61d501.35eae43b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <48B99371.1080505@verizon.net>

All,
Is this new pump shorter than a Buick 300 A/C pump?  If so, by how much?

Also, do the Rover/Buick pulleys share the same bolt pattern as any 
other big name engine?  I'm curious as to where folks are getting 
different sized pulleys.

James J.

GrayTesla at aol.com wrote:
> <<Carl is right - no mention was made stating that the plane remained 
> the same.  It was said that the pulley remains the same - this is NOT 
> the same as the plane.>>
>  
> Barrie, the pictures show that the water pump pulley DOES NOT remain the 
> same. That difference is what affords the shortened pump to not protrude, yet have 
> the drive portion, the groove, stay aligned.
>  
> No, I am not a MG owner and if my asking question here is uncomfortable for 
> some I apologize. If as a non-MG 215 owner I am on the wrong forum please let 
> me know. 
>  
> Barrie, I hope my note (For the Sake of Clarity) has shed light on why there 
> was confusion for some of us. Now, I say it here for the third time: you are 
> to be commended for this wonderful innovation -- HOWEVER, the words you 
> original wrote obviously caused some confusion. There is not harm in that and no 
> blame being place. People simply wish to understand the details. You may not be as 
> directly involved with the actual mechanics as some of us but questions of 
> pulleys and plane alignment can be significant matters. 
>  
> Again, no one is trying to disparage you. Please afford those of us who read 
> your note literally the same curtesy. I'll now go quietly into that dark night.
>  
> Darius

From barrie at look.ca  Sun Aug 31 11:18:13 2008
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:18:13 -0400
Subject: [Mgb-v8] So that we can all stay on the same page - here is
 what I sent Barrie today
In-Reply-To: <48B99371.1080505@verizon.net>
References: <cfe.3c61d501.35eae43b@aol.com>
  <48B99371.1080505@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <E1KZqiF-0003Us-Sz@epsilon.look.ca>

James,

My pulley came with engine (from RPi in the UK).    The water pump 
made for me is 3" back to front as against the 4" one I had on the 
engine.  I believe it was made from a Buick water pump and I sent 
neither my own pump or the bolt pattern - they just made it!!!!.   My 
engine chap told me that other pulleys have same bolt holes and I 
seem to remember he mentioned Volvo (???)



At 02:37 PM 8/30/2008, James J. wrote:
>All,
>Is this new pump shorter than a Buick 300 A/C pump?  If so, by how much?
>
>Also, do the Rover/Buick pulleys share the same bolt pattern as any
>other big name engine?  I'm curious as to where folks are getting
>different sized pulleys.
>
>James J.
>
>GrayTesla at aol.com wrote:
> > <<Carl is right - no mention was made stating that the plane remained
> > the same.  It was said that the pulley remains the same - this is NOT
> > the same as the plane.>>
> >
> > Barrie, the pictures show that the water pump pulley DOES NOT remain the
> > same. That difference is what affords the shortened pump to not 
> protrude, yet have
> > the drive portion, the groove, stay aligned.
> >
> > No, I am not a MG owner and if my asking question here is 
> uncomfortable for
> > some I apologize. If as a non-MG 215 owner I am on the wrong 
> forum please let
> > me know.
> >
> > Barrie, I hope my note (For the Sake of Clarity) has shed light 
> on why there
> > was confusion for some of us. Now, I say it here for the third 
> time: you are
> > to be commended for this wonderful innovation -- HOWEVER, the words you
> > original wrote obviously caused some confusion. There is not harm 
> in that and no
> > blame being place. People simply wish to understand the details. 
> You may not be as
> > directly involved with the actual mechanics as some of us but questions of
> > pulleys and plane alignment can be significant matters.
> >
> > Again, no one is trying to disparage you. Please afford those of 
> us who read
> > your note literally the same curtesy. I'll now go quietly into 
> that dark night.
> >
> > Darius
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Mgb-v8 mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as barrie at look.ca
>
>Mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
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>
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Regards
Barrie

Barrie Robinson
(705) 721-9060
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
http://www.britcot.com