From clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com  Fri Oct  8 03:22:21 2010
From: clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com (Clive Sherriff)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:22:21 +0100
Subject: [Mg-t] Brake Fluids - DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 Mixtures (dont do it!) What
 happens?
References: <20090824.125415.2212.12.MGBOB@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3D5CED430F6841D88D63CD929BF91341@cypress>

>From another group:-

>>>   DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 are all glycol-based fluids and can
>>>   be mixed successfully.
>>>   DOT 5 is silicon-based and is not compatible with
>>>   any other type of  fluid. DOT 5 must not be mixed
>>>   with any other type of fluid!!!

>>>   There is often confusion about this because people
>>>   sometimes think DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are the same
>>>   thing, but in reality they are not. It's simply an
>>>   unfortunate numbering system that should have been
>>>   done differently to avoid this confusion. <<<

Aware of this DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 situation from quite
some time ago, I decided a survey was needed & asked
in a number of Autoparts shops around here, when I was
buying other stuff, whether the two could be mixed
safely.

Without exception I was told there was no problem!

Now I'm aware that one should not mix them, but from
this survey, I'd guess that there are a lot of vehicles
around with a mixture of DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 fluids.

Now a survey is one thing, but I'm not going to do the
experiment <G>  So does anyone  know what the actual
effects are on the braking system of such a mixture?

Clive
Oxford UK
===================================

From spook01 at comcast.net  Fri Oct  8 05:37:41 2010
From: spook01 at comcast.net (=?utf-8?B?c3Bvb2swMUBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA==?=)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 06:37:41 -0500
Subject: [Mg-t]
	=?utf-8?q?Brake_Fluids_-_DOT_5_/_DOT_5=2E1_Mixtures_=28don?=
	=?utf-8?q?t_do_it!=29_What_happens=3F?=
Message-ID: <20101008113647.8993A187644@autox.team.net>

Clive,
My buddy actually did that!!
The two fluids segregated themselves, but braking was not diminished.  
Go figure!
Ray 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

----- Reply message -----
From: "Clive Sherriff" <clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com>
Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 04:22
Subject: [Mg-t] Brake Fluids - DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 Mixtures (dont do it!) What happens?
To: <mg-t at autox.team.net>

>From another group:-

>>>   DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 are all glycol-based fluids and can
>>>   be mixed successfully.
>>>   DOT 5 is silicon-based and is not compatible with
>>>   any other type of  fluid. DOT 5 must not be mixed
>>>   with any other type of fluid!!!

>>>   There is often confusion about this because people
>>>   sometimes think DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are the same
>>>   thing, but in reality they are not. It's simply an
>>>   unfortunate numbering system that should have been
>>>   done differently to avoid this confusion. <<<

Aware of this DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 situation from quite
some time ago, I decided a survey was needed & asked
in a number of Autoparts shops around here, when I was
buying other stuff, whether the two could be mixed
safely.

Without exception I was told there was no problem!

Now I'm aware that one should not mix them, but from
this survey, I'd guess that there are a lot of vehicles
around with a mixture of DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 fluids.

Now a survey is one thing, but I'm not going to do the
experiment <G>  So does anyone  know what the actual
effects are on the braking system of such a mixture?

Clive
Oxford UK
===================================
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $11.47
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From PopeyMike at aol.com  Fri Oct  8 09:33:54 2010
From: PopeyMike at aol.com (PopeyMike at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:33:54 EDT
Subject: [Mg-t] Brake Fluids - DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 Mixtures (dont do it!)
 What happens?
Message-ID: <1ecee5.1e2569f2.39e093e2@aol.com>

Gentlemen:
 
Of course it is not good to do this - maybe also quite dangerous.
 
But in effect these two will separate and as long as there is no air - they 
 will still work as incompressible fluids and stop the car.
 
The real danger happens if you overheat the brakes and the heat is  
transferred to the fluid.  They they may actually act funny and  dangerously.
 
I would not mix them and let everyone else know.
 
Michael Balahutrak
53 TD
Houston, TX

 
 
In a message dated 10/8/2010 6:58:42 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
spook01 at comcast.net writes:

Clive,
My buddy actually did that!!
The two fluids segregated  themselves, but braking was not diminished.  
Go figure!
Ray  

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

----- Reply message  -----
From: "Clive Sherriff" <clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com>
Date:  Fri, Oct 8, 2010 04:22
Subject: [Mg-t] Brake Fluids - DOT 5 / DOT 5.1  Mixtures (dont do it!) What 
happens?
To:  <mg-t at autox.team.net>

>From another  group:-

>>>   DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 are all glycol-based  fluids and can
>>>   be mixed  successfully.
>>>   DOT 5 is silicon-based and is not  compatible with
>>>   any other type of  fluid. DOT  5 must not be mixed
>>>   with any other type of  fluid!!!

>>>   There is often confusion about this  because people
>>>   sometimes think DOT 5 and DOT 5.1  are the same
>>>   thing, but in reality they are not.  It's simply an
>>>   unfortunate numbering system that  should have been
>>>   done differently to avoid this  confusion. <<<

Aware of this DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 situation from  quite
some time ago, I decided a survey was needed & asked
in a  number of Autoparts shops around here, when I was
buying other stuff,  whether the two could be mixed
safely.

Without exception I was told  there was no problem!

Now I'm aware that one should not mix them, but  from
this survey, I'd guess that there are a lot of vehicles
around with  a mixture of DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 fluids.

Now a survey is one thing, but I'm  not going to do the
experiment <G>  So does anyone  know  what the actual
effects are on the braking system of such a  mixture?

Clive
Oxford  UK
===================================
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
Donate:  http://www.team.net/donate.html
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______________________________________________

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From shop at justbrits.com  Fri Oct  8 12:00:06 2010
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:00:06 -0500
Subject: [Mg-t] Brake Fluids - DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 Mixtures (dont do it!)
 What happens?
In-Reply-To: <1ecee5.1e2569f2.39e093e2@aol.com>
References: <1ecee5.1e2569f2.39e093e2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4CAF5C26.9060304@justbrits.com>

  I feel the 'need' to "edit" your post, Popey 
<G><G> !!

<< The real danger happens if you overheat the 
brakes and the het is
transferred to the fluid. >>

That 'should' read:
*"*The real danger happens **WHEN** you overheat 
the brakes
and the heat is transferred to the fluid.*"*

<< They they may actually act funny and 
dangerously. >>

That 'should' read:
*"*They they **will** actually act funny and 
**very** dangerously.*"*

One of my **MAJOR** pet-peeves is people with an 
iota of "knowledge"
RE-working and/or RE-designing *SAFETY ITEMS*  
[which of course,
brakes/brake systems *ARE *] !!!   Now since 98+% 
of people on the various
Lists I am on live NOWHERE near me, I just feel 
bad for the other poor
drivers !!!  The person DOING the "altering" work 
I will NOT feel for
WHEN - not if - the hit a stationary object/other 
car occurs and said
person is maimed for life or at worst dead.

Got exactly what they deserved.  Shame for the car 
tho<G> !!

Ed

From PopeyMike at aol.com  Fri Oct  8 13:27:46 2010
From: PopeyMike at aol.com (PopeyMike at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 15:27:46 EDT
Subject: [Mg-t] Brake Fluids - DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 Mixtures (dont do it!)
 What happens?
Message-ID: <1fb9e1.431efe4f.39e0cab2@aol.com>

Ed:
 
You are exactly right in insisting on taking the safest approach.   
Unfortunately I look at things through my glasses and give people the benefit of  
the doubt that they know what they are doing.
 
>From now on I will be more forceful in my statements.  (and check my  
spelling)
 
Michael Balahutrak
53 TD
Houston, TX
__________________________________________
 
 
In a message dated 10/8/2010 1:34:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
shop at justbrits.com writes:

I  feel the 'need' to "edit" your post, Popey 
<G><G>  !!

<< The real danger happens if you overheat the 
brakes and  the het is
transferred to the fluid. >>

That 'should'  read:
*"*The real danger happens **WHEN** you overheat 
the  brakes
and the heat is transferred to the fluid.*"*

<< They  they may actually act funny and 
dangerously. >>

That 'should'  read:
*"*They they **will** actually act funny and 
**very**  dangerously.*"*

One of my **MAJOR** pet-peeves is people with an  
iota of "knowledge"
RE-working and/or RE-designing *SAFETY ITEMS*   
[which of course,
brakes/brake systems *ARE *] !!!   Now  since 98+% 
of people on the various
Lists I am on live NOWHERE near me,  I just feel 
bad for the other poor
drivers !!!  The person DOING  the "altering" work 
I will NOT feel for
WHEN - not if - the hit a  stationary object/other 
car occurs and said
person is maimed for life  or at worst dead.

Got exactly what they deserved.  Shame for the  car 
tho<G>  !!

Ed
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
Donate:  http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation   $11.47
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From shop at justbrits.com  Fri Oct  8 15:14:23 2010
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:14:23 -0500
Subject: [Mg-t] Brake Fluids - DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 Mixtures (dont do it!)
 What happens?
In-Reply-To: <1fb9e1.431efe4f.39e0cab2@aol.com>
References: <1fb9e1.431efe4f.39e0cab2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4CAF89AF.9070805@justbrits.com>

  << Unfortunately I look at things through my 
glasses and give people the benefit
of the doubt that they know what they are doing. >>

Popey, first I have been looking thru glasses for 
right at 6
decades <G> !!

Second, for the past 5 decades I have seen for 
myself, chatted
about and/or read "things" that have MORE than 
PROVED the
opposite of your "giving 
benefit....doubt......know...... " comment !!

And the majority of times, it has been a SAD thing to
'experience' !!

There REALLY is a reason behind the "DPO" 'label' 
<sigh>

Ed
'67 BJ-7
[Hortense THE Healey wearing STD IL plates    AH 
BJ 7    ]
'72 Black Tulip MGB
[Murial wearing STD IL plates    CinsB 73    ]
Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com
[including SPECIALS in For Sale Section]

From mark at bradakis.com  Fri Oct  8 15:31:38 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 15:31:38 -0600
Subject: [Mg-t] Brake Fluids - DOT 5 / DOT 5.1 Mixtures (dont do it!)
 What happens?
In-Reply-To: <1fb9e1.431efe4f.39e0cab2@aol.com>
References: <1fb9e1.431efe4f.39e0cab2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4CAF8DBA.90601@bradakis.com>

The silicone fluid does not absorb water.  The traditional fluid does.
When both are used in the system the silicon is lighter and floats,
so to speak, while the traditional fluid tends to pool in the low
spots in the system.  Like in the calipers, where water vapor can
sneak in past the piston seals.  Over time this results in a blob
of waterlogged glycol fluid in the hottest point of the system.
It basically boils, turns into steam and steam is a LOT less
compressible than non-boiling brake fluid.

So the brakes quit working, and bad things happen.

mjb.

From TATERRY at aol.com  Mon Oct 11 19:50:04 2010
From: TATERRY at aol.com (TATERRY at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:50:04 EDT
Subject: [Mg-t] 1939 TA forsale, California
Message-ID: <2ea5a0.a745a23.39e518cc@aol.com>

Folks I do not know this gent, nor anything about the car but given the  
rarity I thought I would pass this on....
 
For sale 1939 MG TA $12,000, car has British green book and lic plate which 
 match and history file, came to America in the back of a military 
transport  plane. Includes in addition to what's in the picture, new or rebuilt; new 
set of  old-stock fenders/running boards, set pro rebuilt speed O/ tach , 
wiring  harness, lights ft/back, voltage reg, horn, wood kit (wood mostly in 
good  condition), cables, brake cyl , ready  to be restoration. Runs: Value 
for  a  new restoration 58 to 65k +, older restoration 30 to 40k +-.  

He is in Placerville, CA
And email is: _rbuchanan2680 at comcast.net_ 
(mailto:rbuchanan2680 at comcast.net) 

Rich   530-626-7762

From lawrie at britcars.com  Mon Oct 11 20:00:17 2010
From: lawrie at britcars.com (Lawrie Alexander)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 19:00:17 -0700
Subject: [Mg-t] 1939 TA forsale, California
References: <2ea5a0.a745a23.39e518cc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <533BC96E39D449698017C317B5CA451D@shop>

Having seen this car, I can tell you it really is pretty much a complete 
basket case! Not a restoration for the faint of heart - or light of wallet 
.....

Lawrie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <TATERRY at aol.com>
To: <mg-t at autox.team.net>; <mg-tabc at egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 6:50 PM
Subject: [Mg-t] 1939 TA forsale, California


> Folks I do not know this gent, nor anything about the car but given the
> rarity I thought I would pass this on....
>
> For sale 1939 MG TA $12,000, car has British green book and lic plate 
> which
> match and history file, came to America in the back of a military
> transport  plane. Includes in addition to what's in the picture, new or 
> rebuilt; new
> set of  old-stock fenders/running boards, set pro rebuilt speed O/ tach ,
> wiring  harness, lights ft/back, voltage reg, horn, wood kit (wood mostly 
> in
> good  condition), cables, brake cyl , ready  to be restoration. Runs: 
> Value
> for  a  new restoration 58 to 65k +, older restoration 30 to 40k +-.
>
> He is in Placerville, CA
> And email is: _rbuchanan2680 at comcast.net_
> (mailto:rbuchanan2680 at comcast.net)
>
> Rich   530-626-7762
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/lawrie at britcars.com

From clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com  Thu Oct 14 06:44:06 2010
From: clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com (Clive Sherriff)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 13:44:06 +0100
Subject: [Mg-t] Thoughts on Balancing the MG TA Crankshaft assembly
References: <1fb9e1.431efe4f.39e0cab2@aol.com> <4CAF8DBA.90601@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <7E5EA0FDF28947DCAB16747B592616BE@cypress>

Thoughts on Balancing the MG TA Crankshaft assembly

We are all mostly familiar with the XPAG crank/
flywheel and clutch assembly,  the usual balancing 
operation is straight forward i.e. :-

1  Balance Crank alone,
2  Balance crank plus fan pulley and Timing Gear 
            assembly
3  Bolt on flywheel and relalance,
4  Bolt on clutch cover and do the final assembly 
            balance.

The TC clutch is a relatively "solid" component 
which simply bolts onto the flywheel.

But with the TA MPJG engine the clutch is quite 
a different assembly within the flywheel, involving 
cover, driven plate and the 12 rather unprecicely 
located pressure springs.  Whilst the driven plate is 
fairly well located by the three square studs in the 
flywheel, when the clutch cover is added, then it is 
impossible to accurately position the 12 springs on 
the back of the driven plate.  There will inevitably 
be some movement when the engine is eventually 
assembled, started and operated at normal revs.

I suppose the perfect way is to carry out steps 1 to 3 
above, assemble the clutch on the balanced crank/
flywheel assembly, then assemble and run the engine 
to settle all the pressure plate springs into position, 
dismantle and repeat step 4 again to check the final 
balance position. A lot of bother!

Two compromised could be used

1  Balance without the springs, then assemble and 
hope there will be no unbalancing.

2  Just assemble as step 4 and call it a day on that.

The MPJG crank assembly is net exactly a well 
balanced item as it left the factory and benefits from 
balancing, but given that the TA's wet clutch is full 
of engine oil sloshing about anyway - is it all worth 
the bother of too much precision anyway?

Clive
Oxford UK
========================================

From crownwheel at comcast.net  Fri Oct 22 06:38:41 2010
From: crownwheel at comcast.net (Gene)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:38:41 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] TC Fuel Tank
Message-ID: <005c01cb71e6$0f41fa30$2dc5ee90$@net>

Listers . a friend is rebuilding a TC and wants to put a stainless steel
fuel tank on it. His thought is to have one made, does anyone know of such a
craftsman who can do that? Or, is there an alternative?

Gene

Eliot ' 53 TD

Vermont

From peter-thiel at sbcglobal.net  Fri Oct 22 15:38:56 2010
From: peter-thiel at sbcglobal.net (peter-thiel at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:38:56 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] TC Fuel Tank
References: <005c01cb71e6$0f41fa30$2dc5ee90$@net>
Message-ID: <1C1C88D8629A4BB3974645E581793A2B@OURS>

If he is still in business, you might inquire with Gene Gardner at

Gardner Engineering (Welding)
862 S.Colony Rd
Wallingford, CT

203 265-1036

He's an older gentleman, and an industrial welding "artist", with old world
quality. A great guy, loves cars and one-off projects. Makes his bread and
butter with short-run exquisite micro welding of steel, stainless, aluminum
and other metals. I had some aluminum welding done and saw his shop and work.

Pete Thiel
'53 MG TD


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <crownwheel at comcast.net>
To: "'MG'" <mg-t at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 8:38 AM
Subject: [Mg-t] TC Fuel Tank


> Listers . a friend is rebuilding a TC and wants to put a stainless steel
> fuel tank on it. His thought is to have one made, does anyone know of such
a
> craftsman who can do that? Or, is there an alternative?
>
> Gene
>
> Eliot ' 53 TD
>
> Vermont
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/peter-thiel at sbcglobal.net

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Fri Oct 22 15:57:41 2010
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:57:41 +1000
Subject: [Mg-t] TC Fuel Tank
In-Reply-To: <005c01cb71e6$0f41fa30$2dc5ee90$@net>
References: <005c01cb71e6$0f41fa30$2dc5ee90$@net>
Message-ID: <A01BDC81-9819-43E8-AABA-FE4D50C00D53@ghs.com.au>

My question is Why?

Murray Arundell
Brisbane Australia

On 22/10/2010, at 10:38 PM, Gene wrote:

> Listers . a friend is rebuilding a TC and wants to put a stainless steel
> fuel tank on it. His thought is to have one made, does anyone know of such
a
> craftsman who can do that? Or, is there an alternative?
>
> Gene
>
> Eliot ' 53 TD
>
> Vermont
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/arundell at ghs.com.au
>
>







Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au

From shop at justbrits.com  Fri Oct 22 17:39:26 2010
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:39:26 -0500
Subject: [Mg-t] TC Fuel Tank
In-Reply-To: <A01BDC81-9819-43E8-AABA-FE4D50C00D53@ghs.com.au>
References: <005c01cb71e6$0f41fa30$2dc5ee90$@net>
	<A01BDC81-9819-43E8-AABA-FE4D50C00D53@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <4CC220AE.4030805@justbrits.com>

  I'm with you, Murray !!!
Tank would be worth more than the car <VBG> !!!!

Ed

On 10/22/2010 4:57 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
> My question is Why?

From crownwheel at comcast.net  Sat Oct 23 05:50:16 2010
From: crownwheel at comcast.net (Gene)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:50:16 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] TC Tank
Message-ID: <008d01cb72a8$763491e0$629db5a0$@net>

Thanks to all who responded .

As this is not my car, I can't answer the question "why" does he want to do
that. 

To each his own, I guess.

Thanks again .

Gene