From tsouthworth70 at hotmail.com  Sun Jun  6 14:32:41 2010
From: tsouthworth70 at hotmail.com (Tuck Southworth)
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 16:32:41 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Plug gap
Message-ID: <BLU129-W28FD1BE48D6603D5C71CC6BFD40@phx.gbl>

All,

Does anyone have advice for what plug gap to use after installing a Lucus
Sports Coil?  This is a TF 1500 and I normally gap them to .025.



What do you actually gain by increasing the gap?



Thanks,

Tuck

From lawrie at britcars.com  Sun Jun  6 18:22:44 2010
From: lawrie at britcars.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?lawrie?=)
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:22:44 -0800
Subject: [Mg-t] =?iso-8859-1?q?Plug_gap?=
Message-ID: <20100607002244.32230.qmail@s417.sureserver.com>

Tuck,

I run a Lucas Sports coil on my TD special and gap the NGK B6ES spark plugs at 35 thousandths. The Sport coil puts out 40K volts so can generate a much stronger spark. Giving it a larger gap to jump across makes for a bigger ignition source for the fuel mixture. Agreed, a book match or a butane lighter can both start a forest fire but when the fuel is wet (i.e. if the air-fuel mixture isn't perfect) the more intense flame gets the fire going more easily.

Lawrie
British Sportscar Center


>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: Tuck Southworth <tsouthworth70 at hotmail.com>
>  To: mg-t at autox.team.net
>  Subject: [Mg-t] Plug gap
>  Sent: 06 Jun '10 12:32
>  
>  All,
>  
>  Does anyone have advice for what plug gap to use after installing a Lucus
>  Sports Coil?  This is a TF 1500 and I normally gap them to .025.
>  
>  
>  
>  What do you actually gain by increasing the gap?
>  
>  
>  
>  Thanks,
>  
>  Tuck
>  ______________________________________________
>  
>  Mg-t at autox.team.net
>  Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>  Suggested annual donation  $11.47
>  Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>  Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>  Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/lawrie at britcars.com

From go2ghill at aol.com  Wed Jun  9 12:17:35 2010
From: go2ghill at aol.com (go2ghill at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:17:35 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
Message-ID: <8CCD6172B508AB5-7FC-DA5@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com>

 The gas line on my TD as it goes into the tank had a weak spot and broke.

I did not know how to repair or find a replacement.
Your advice would be appreciated.
Greg Hill
'50 TD

From LarryShoer at comcast.net  Wed Jun  9 13:13:42 2010
From: LarryShoer at comcast.net (Larry Shoer)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 15:13:42 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <4A1912CAAFDF44D985895991DAB9013C@BacklotTechnologies.local>
References: <4A1912CAAFDF44D985895991DAB9013C@BacklotTechnologies.local>
Message-ID: <37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611CF5@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>

Greg,

I suggest you replace the entire line.  You can get soft copper tubing
of the right diameter from a local plumbing supply house. Specifically,
it is 5/16" refrigeration tube and is usually sold in 50 foot lengths,
but you may be able to buy it by the foot.

Assuming the correct fittings are on your car, you can reuse those
fittings and solder them on the new copper tubing. Some advantages of
making your own fuel line are that you can fine-tune the length to
exactly match what you need and you will have plenty of extra tubing
(for less money than Moss, too) in case you make a mistake.

Larry

From mgcharlie at comcast.net  Wed Jun  9 14:09:10 2010
From: mgcharlie at comcast.net (Charlie Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 16:09:10 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611CF5@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>
References: <4A1912CAAFDF44D985895991DAB9013C@BacklotTechnologies.local>
	<37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611CF5@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>
Message-ID: <4C0FF4E6.7060203@comcast.net>

Larry Shoer wrote:
> Greg,
>
> I suggest you replace the entire line.  You can get soft copper tubing
> of the right diameter from a local plumbing supply house. Specifically,
> it is 5/16" refrigeration tube and is usually sold in 50 foot lengths,
> but you may be able to buy it by the foot.
>
> Assuming the correct fittings are on your car, you can reuse those
> fittings and solder them on the new copper tubing. Some advantages of
> making your own fuel line are that you can fine-tune the length to
> exactly match what you need and you will have plenty of extra tubing
> (for less money than Moss, too) in case you make a mistake.
>
> Larry
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/mgcharlie at comcast.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of mgcharlie.vcf]

From mgcharlie at comcast.net  Wed Jun  9 14:10:01 2010
From: mgcharlie at comcast.net (Charlie Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 16:10:01 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611CF5@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>
References: <4A1912CAAFDF44D985895991DAB9013C@BacklotTechnologies.local>
	<37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611CF5@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>
Message-ID: <4C0FF519.6040501@comcast.net>

Generally what I've heard is that you should always use steel for fuel 
and brake lines because the vibrations involved with a car will work 
harden copper making it brittle and prone to breaking.
There is a guy in the Austin-Healey world named Doug Reid who goes by 
the name of Mr. Finespanner who makes up new brake and fuel lines for 
Healeys.  He's worked as a mechanic in many British car shops all over 
the USA, even had his own business.  Perhaps he could make them for 
you.  http://www.vintage-sportscar-touring.ca/technical/brakelines.html
I don't know what section of the country he is in right now though 
Maryland is a place that he frequents.
Charlie

Larry Shoer wrote:
> Greg,
>
> I suggest you replace the entire line.  You can get soft copper tubing
> of the right diameter from a local plumbing supply house. Specifically,
> it is 5/16" refrigeration tube and is usually sold in 50 foot lengths,
> but you may be able to buy it by the foot.
>
> Assuming the correct fittings are on your car, you can reuse those
> fittings and solder them on the new copper tubing. Some advantages of
> making your own fuel line are that you can fine-tune the length to
> exactly match what you need and you will have plenty of extra tubing
> (for less money than Moss, too) in case you make a mistake.
>
> Larry
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/mgcharlie at comcast.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of mgcharlie.vcf]

From PopeyMike at aol.com  Wed Jun  9 16:22:55 2010
From: PopeyMike at aol.com (PopeyMike at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 18:22:55 EDT
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
Message-ID: <9bf0f.26f6f4e0.39416e3f@aol.com>

I'm with Larry on this - much cheaper - available at Lowe's amnd Home Depot 
 and works - rememeber to tie it into moving points - such as the gas tank 
with  flexible rubber fuel lines - this avoids any vibration damage to line 
s- mine  have been working for 28 years without a leak.
 
TDMike
MBalahutrak
53 TD
 
 
In a message dated 6/9/2010 3:39:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
mgcharlie at comcast.net writes:

Generally what I've heard is that you should always use steel for  fuel 
and brake lines because the vibrations involved with a car will work  
harden copper making it brittle and prone to breaking.
There is a guy  in the Austin-Healey world named Doug Reid who goes by 
the name of Mr.  Finespanner who makes up new brake and fuel lines for 
Healeys.  He's  worked as a mechanic in many British car shops all over 
the USA, even had  his own business.  Perhaps he could make them for 
you.   http://www.vintage-sportscar-touring.ca/technical/brakelines.html
I don't  know what section of the country he is in right now though 
Maryland is a  place that he frequents.
Charlie

Larry Shoer wrote:
>  Greg,
>
> I suggest you replace the entire line.  You can get  soft copper tubing
> of the right diameter from a local plumbing supply  house. Specifically,
> it is 5/16" refrigeration tube and is usually  sold in 50 foot lengths,
> but you may be able to buy it by the  foot.
>
> Assuming the correct fittings are on your car, you can  reuse those
> fittings and solder them on the new copper tubing. Some  advantages of
> making your own fuel line are that you can fine-tune the  length to
> exactly match what you need and you will have plenty of  extra tubing
> (for less money than Moss, too) in case you make a  mistake.
>
> Larry
>  ______________________________________________
>
>  Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>  Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive:  http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>  Unsubscribe/Manage:  
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/mgcharlie at comcast.net

[demime  1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name 
of  mgcharlie.vcf]
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
Donate:  http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation   $11.47
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums:  http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:  
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From LarryShoer at comcast.net  Wed Jun  9 18:09:05 2010
From: LarryShoer at comcast.net (Larry Shoer)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 20:09:05 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <CB0314CB23FE49C09426D50495F0E0B0@BacklotTechnologies.local>
References: <CB0314CB23FE49C09426D50495F0E0B0@BacklotTechnologies.local>
Message-ID: <37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611D03@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>

Remember that the fuel tank sending unit grounds through the fuel line to
activate the low fuel light on the dash.  If you electrically isolate the fuel
line you need to run a substitute ground to the fuel tank.

Larry
 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of PopeyMike at aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 6:45 PM
> To: mgcharlie at comcast.net
> Cc: mg-t at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
>
> I'm with Larry on this - much cheaper - available at Lowe's amnd Home
> Depot
>  and works - rememeber to tie it into moving points - such as the gas tank
> with  flexible rubber fuel lines - this avoids any vibration damage to
> line
> s- mine  have been working for 28 years without a leak.
>
> TDMike
> MBalahutrak
> 53 TD
>
>
> In a message dated 6/9/2010 3:39:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> mgcharlie at comcast.net writes:
>
> Generally what I've heard is that you should always use steel for  fuel
> and brake lines because the vibrations involved with a car will work
> harden copper making it brittle and prone to breaking.
> There is a guy  in the Austin-Healey world named Doug Reid who goes by
> the name of Mr.  Finespanner who makes up new brake and fuel lines for
> Healeys.  He's  worked as a mechanic in many British car shops all over
> the USA, even had  his own business.  Perhaps he could make them for
> you.   http://www.vintage-sportscar-touring.ca/technical/brakelines.html
> I don't  know what section of the country he is in right now though
> Maryland is a  place that he frequents.
> Charlie
>
> Larry Shoer wrote:
> >  Greg,
> >
> > I suggest you replace the entire line.  You can get  soft copper tubing
> > of the right diameter from a local plumbing supply  house. Specifically,
> > it is 5/16" refrigeration tube and is usually  sold in 50 foot lengths,
> > but you may be able to buy it by the  foot.
> >
> > Assuming the correct fittings are on your car, you can  reuse those
> > fittings and solder them on the new copper tubing. Some  advantages of
> > making your own fuel line are that you can fine-tune the  length to
> > exactly match what you need and you will have plenty of  extra tubing
> > (for less money than Moss, too) in case you make a  mistake.
> >
> > Larry
> >  ______________________________________________
> >
> >  Mg-t at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >  Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> > Archive:  http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> >  Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/mgcharlie at comcast.net
>
> [demime  1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name
> of  mgcharlie.vcf]
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate:  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation   $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums:  http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/popeymike at aol.com
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-
> t/larryshoer at comcast.net

From mgbob at juno.com  Thu Jun 10 06:36:45 2010
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:36:45 GMT
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
Message-ID: <20100610.083645.17437.1@webmail02.vgs.untd.com>

  It's true that vibration will work-harden copper lines. That was certainly a
problem with the T cars that had separate oil filter connected to the pump and
engine with copper lines.  One needed to anneal the copper from time to time
in order to avoid it cracking.
  But for fuel lines, work hardening is not much of a problem. Tank to chassis
to pump(s) in the engine space, the line is secured to something solid and is
not exposed to much vibration.
  Were my fuel lines to need replacement, I would use copper tube.
  Brake lines are, of course, a different matter.  Cupro nickel is one
material that some prefer to steel. A friend, a mechanical engineer,  used it
in his Austin Healey 3000 resto, only to have the Connecticut inspectors fail
the car because the line looked like copper. He was able to get material specs
from the tube manufacturer and the state relented.
Bob


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Charlie Baldwin <mgcharlie at comcast.net>
To: Undisclosed-recipients:;
Cc: mg-t at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 16:10:01 -0400

Generally what I've heard is that you should always use steel for fuel
and brake lines because the vibrations involved with a car will work
harden copper making it brittle and prone to breaking.
There is a guy in the Austin-Healey world named Doug Reid who goes by
the name of Mr. Finespanner who makes up new brake and fuel lines for
Healeys.  He's worked as a mechanic in many British car shops all over
the USA, even had his own business.  Perhaps he could make them for
you.  http://www.vintage-sportscar-touring.ca/technical/brakelines.html
I don't know what section of the country he is in right now though
Maryland is a place that he frequents.
Charlie

Larry Shoer wrote:
> Greg,
>
> I suggest you replace the entire line.  You can get soft copper tubing
> of the right diameter from a local plumbing supply house. Specifically,
> it is 5/16" refrigeration tube and is usually sold in 50 foot lengths,
> but you may be able to buy it by the foot.
>
> Assuming the correct fittings are on your car, you can reuse those
> fittings and solder them on the new copper tubing. Some advantages of
> making your own fuel line are that you can fine-tune the length to
> exactly match what you need and you will have plenty of extra tubing
> (for less money than Moss, too) in case you make a mistake.
>
> Larry
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/mgcharlie at comcast.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of
mgcharlie.vcf]
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $11.47
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/mgbob at juno.com

From clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com  Thu Jun 10 07:49:52 2010
From: clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com (Clive Sherriff)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:49:52 +0100
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
References: <20100610.083645.17437.1@webmail02.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <D9021810E00E473EA471345CA8FB01E4@cypress>

Whilst run of the mill "plumbing" copper will
indeed eventually work harden and crack ( I
experienced this 40 years ago on the TB), no
one would use normal copper tubing these
days surely?

The stuff to use is a copper - nickle alloy.

One of the most commonly seen CuNi brake
tube products goes by the name Kunifer.
Lots of it on Ebay.

Clive
Oxford UK
======================================
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <mgbob at juno.com>
To: <mgcharlie at comcast.net>
Cc: <mg-t at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement


>  It's true that vibration will work-harden copper lines. That was 
> certainly a
> problem with the T cars that had separate oil filter connected to the pump 
> and
> engine with copper lines.  One needed to anneal the copper from time to 
> time
> in order to avoid it cracking.
>  But for fuel lines, work hardening is not much of a problem. Tank to 
> chassis
> to pump(s) in the engine space, the line is secured to something solid and 
> is
> not exposed to much vibration.
>  Were my fuel lines to need replacement, I would use copper tube.
>  Brake lines are, of course, a different matter.  Cupro nickel is one
> material that some prefer to steel. A friend, a mechanical engineer,  used 
> it
> in his Austin Healey 3000 resto, only to have the Connecticut inspectors 
> fail
> the car because the line looked like copper. He was able to get material 
> specs
> from the tube manufacturer and the state relented.
> Bob
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Charlie Baldwin <mgcharlie at comcast.net>
> To: Undisclosed-recipients:;
> Cc: mg-t at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 16:10:01 -0400
>
> Generally what I've heard is that you should always use steel for fuel
> and brake lines because the vibrations involved with a car will work
> harden copper making it brittle and prone to breaking............. 

From feold3 at mac.com  Thu Jun 10 09:01:15 2010
From: feold3 at mac.com (Chip Old)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:01:15 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <D9021810E00E473EA471345CA8FB01E4@cypress>
Message-ID: <C836767B.179BB%feold3@mac.com>

On 6/10/10 9:49 AM, "Clive Sherriff" <clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Whilst run of the mill "plumbing" copper will
> indeed eventually work harden and crack ( I
> experienced this 40 years ago on the TB), no
> one would use normal copper tubing these
> days surely?
> 
> The stuff to use is a copper - nickle alloy.
> 
> One of the most commonly seen CuNi brake
> tube products goes by the name Kunifer.
> Lots of it on Ebay.

All the offerings of "Kunifer" I see on eBay are from UK sources. In the US
try http://store.fedhillusa.com/

-- 
Chip Old
Cub Hill, Maryland, US
feold3 at mac.com
1948 M.G. TC TC6710

From kingseim at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 10 09:14:00 2010
From: kingseim at earthlink.net (John Seim)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:14:00 -0700
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <8CCD6172B508AB5-7FC-DA5@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CCD6172B508AB5-7FC-DA5@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <D014AE3E-5333-42CF-8FD1-3B95303D8397@earthlink.net>

I would recommend the following:
Install an Airtex E-8016S low pressure fuel pump, at the rear axle.
These are available at AutoZone, under the brand name "Masters."
Also are sold as Federal-Mogul, and others. I believe that in all cases,
the part number is E-8016S. Pump has two wires coming out of it, so
works with positive as well as negative ground cars.
The pump comes with a clamp. The clamp can be held in place by the
same bolt holding the rear hydraulic damper in place. The wire from
the pump that needs to be grounded same as your car's polarity can
also be grounded at this same spot, using a 3/8" crimp ring terminal.
As you will have to cut the fuel line, to install the pump, you will
now have enough copper fuel pipe to have yours repaired.
A radiator shop can remove the fitting from the end of the fuel line,  
and
solder it onto a good section of your copper fuel line.
I would also recommend placing a see-through 5/16" fuel filter in  
line, between
the fuel tank, and fuel pump. Discard the metal can filter that comes  
with the
pump, as you will never know how much debris that filter has collected.
Also, check the fuel line adapter, that goes into the tank. It is  
supposed to
have a screen filter on it, and this filter gets clogged. The screen  
is there
to prevent rust scale from going down the adapter, into the pipe. It  
is a
necessary thing. If yours is missing, I would recommend buying a new
Fuel Line Adapter from Moss Motors. Part no. 376-665.
A new fuel line from Moss Motors is part no. 454-080.
As you just need to replace the rear section, you could also order  
454-085,
which is the rear section for a TF. Would have the fitting attached,  
for the
fuel line adapter. Cut off the other end, and attach to your existing  
fuel line,
with the 5/16" fuel filter connected between the two pipes.

John Seim
Irvine, CA

On Jun 9, 2010, at 11:17 AM, go2ghill at aol.com wrote:

>  The gas line on my TD as it goes into the tank had a weak spot and  
> broke.
>
> I did not know how to repair or find a replacement.
> Your advice would be appreciated.
> Greg Hill
> '50 TD
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/ 
> kingseim at earthlink.net

From LarryShoer at comcast.net  Thu Jun 10 09:44:18 2010
From: LarryShoer at comcast.net (Larry Shoer)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:44:18 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <9439E5879132479CBB03619602631112@BacklotTechnologies.local>
References: <D9021810E00E473EA471345CA8FB01E4@cypress>
	<9439E5879132479CBB03619602631112@BacklotTechnologies.local>
Message-ID: <37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611D18@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>

Next we need some discussion about how to attach the copper-nickel
tubing to the brass solder fittings at the tank and fuel pump.

(I do believe a LOT of us are running around with copper fuel lines.
Isn't that what Moss sells?)

Larry

From PopeyMike at aol.com  Thu Jun 10 09:52:51 2010
From: PopeyMike at aol.com (PopeyMike at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:52:51 EDT
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
Message-ID: <cc7f9.4f8ac4bb.39426453@aol.com>

This is exactly why I like to read this stuff.  All yous guys put your  
heads together to give the best - highest quality expertise.  Sorry there  is 
no great e-editor out in the wild cyber space that could edit this wisdom for 
 those that could use the help.  
 
Keep up the fantastic wonderful advice and emails - GREAT FUN
 
Michael Balahutrak
53 TD
Houston, TX
 
 
In a message dated 6/10/2010 10:44:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
kingseim at earthlink.net writes:

I would  recommend the following:
Install an Airtex E-8016S low pressure fuel pump,  at the rear axle.
These are available at AutoZone, under the brand name  "Masters."
Also are sold as Federal-Mogul, and others. I believe that in  all cases,
the part number is E-8016S. Pump has two wires coming out of it,  so
works with positive as well as negative ground cars.
The pump comes  with a clamp. The clamp can be held in place by the
same bolt holding the  rear hydraulic damper in place. The wire from
the pump that needs to be  grounded same as your car's polarity can
also be grounded at this same  spot, using a 3/8" crimp ring terminal.
As you will have to cut the fuel  line, to install the pump, you will
now have enough copper fuel pipe to  have yours repaired.
A radiator shop can remove the fitting from the end of  the fuel line,  
and
solder it onto a good section of your copper  fuel line.
I would also recommend placing a see-through 5/16" fuel filter  in  
line, between
the fuel tank, and fuel pump. Discard the metal  can filter that comes  
with the
pump, as you will never know how  much debris that filter has collected.
Also, check the fuel line adapter,  that goes into the tank. It is  
supposed to
have a screen filter  on it, and this filter gets clogged. The screen  
is there
to  prevent rust scale from going down the adapter, into the pipe. It  
is  a
necessary thing. If yours is missing, I would recommend buying a  new
Fuel Line Adapter from Moss Motors. Part no. 376-665.
A new fuel  line from Moss Motors is part no. 454-080.
As you just need to replace the  rear section, you could also order  
454-085,
which is the rear  section for a TF. Would have the fitting attached,  
for the
fuel  line adapter. Cut off the other end, and attach to your existing   
fuel line,
with the 5/16" fuel filter connected between the two  pipes.

John Seim
Irvine, CA

On Jun 9, 2010, at 11:17 AM,  go2ghill at aol.com wrote:

>  The gas line on my TD as it goes  into the tank had a weak spot and  
> broke.
>
> I did  not know how to repair or find a replacement.
> Your advice would be  appreciated.
> Greg Hill
> '50 TD
>  ______________________________________________
>
>  Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>  kingseim at earthlink.net
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
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From lpalmer at roundaboutmanor.com  Thu Jun 10 10:38:12 2010
From: lpalmer at roundaboutmanor.com (Lew Palmer)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:38:12 -0500
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611D18@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>
References: <D9021810E00E473EA471345CA8FB01E4@cypress><9439E5879132479CBB03619602631112@BacklotTechnologies.local>
	<37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611D18@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>
Message-ID: <BFD0620DE5044A8C934104A08C770C34@roundabout.com>

Silver solder. DO NOT soft solder them.

Lew Palmer

-----Original Message-----
From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Larry Shoer
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 10:44 AM
To: mg-t at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement

Next we need some discussion about how to attach the copper-nickel
tubing to the brass solder fittings at the tank and fuel pump.

(I do believe a LOT of us are running around with copper fuel lines.
Isn't that what Moss sells?)

Larry
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
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From felperg at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 10 11:09:58 2010
From: felperg at earthlink.net (Gerald Felper)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:09:58 -0700
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <BFD0620DE5044A8C934104A08C770C34@roundabout.com>
References: <D9021810E00E473EA471345CA8FB01E4@cypress><9439E5879132479CBB03619602631112@BacklotTechnologies.local>
	<37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611D18@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>
	<BFD0620DE5044A8C934104A08C770C34@roundabout.com>
Message-ID: <49CB846A-BBBE-47AD-9E7C-5E8253598207@earthlink.net>

Lew
I have been using copper fuel lines, as original, for 20 years with no  
problems. There is very little, if any movement or vibration of the  
copper lines and therefore little harding.
Jerry

On Jun 10, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Lew Palmer wrote:

> Silver solder. DO NOT soft solder them.
>
> Lew Palmer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t- 
> bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of Larry Shoer
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 10:44 AM
> To: mg-t at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
>
> Next we need some discussion about how to attach the copper-nickel
> tubing to the brass solder fittings at the tank and fuel pump.
>
> (I do believe a LOT of us are running around with copper fuel lines.
> Isn't that what Moss sells?)
>
> Larry
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/lpalmer at roundaboutmanor.com
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
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>

Gerald Felper
Felper Engineering
felperg at earthlink.net

From lpalmer at roundaboutmanor.com  Thu Jun 10 13:23:28 2010
From: lpalmer at roundaboutmanor.com (Lew Palmer)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:23:28 -0500
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <49CB846A-BBBE-47AD-9E7C-5E8253598207@earthlink.net>
References: <D9021810E00E473EA471345CA8FB01E4@cypress><9439E5879132479CBB03619602631112@BacklotTechnologies.local>
	<37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611D18@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>
	<BFD0620DE5044A8C934104A08C770C34@roundabout.com>
	<49CB846A-BBBE-47AD-9E7C-5E8253598207@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A254F69F08534F749F4D72F1919EE580@roundabout.com>

I'm not arguing about copper versus steel versus cupronickel. I have used
copper or cupronickel throughout my cars (except for brakes). I simply said
to silver solder the fittings, not soft solder them. Soft soldering will
inevitably lead to fractured joints.

 

Lew

 

  _____  

From: Gerald Felper [mailto:felperg at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:10 PM
To: Lew Palmer
Cc: 'Larry Shoer'; mg-t at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement

 

Lew

I have been using copper fuel lines, as original, for 20 years with no
problems. There is very little, if any movement or vibration of the copper
lines and therefore little harding. 

Jerry

 

On Jun 10, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Lew Palmer wrote:





Silver solder. DO NOT soft solder them.

Lew Palmer

-----Original Message-----
From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Larry Shoer
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 10:44 AM
To: mg-t at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement

Next we need some discussion about how to attach the copper-nickel
tubing to the brass solder fittings at the tank and fuel pump.

(I do believe a LOT of us are running around with copper fuel lines.
Isn't that what Moss sells?)

Larry
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
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Gerald Felper

Felper Engineering

felperg at earthlink.net

From clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com  Fri Jun 11 03:46:10 2010
From: clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com (Clive Sherriff)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:46:10 +0100
Subject: [Mg-t] Dry Storage of Lead Acid Batteries
References: <D9021810E00E473EA471345CA8FB01E4@cypress><9439E5879132479CBB03619602631112@BacklotTechnologies.local><37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611D18@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local><BFD0620DE5044A8C934104A08C770C34@roundabout.com>
	<49CB846A-BBBE-47AD-9E7C-5E8253598207@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A77D3E20DF5B4F7EB688CA7EDC8E5ED8@cypress>

 Dry Storage of Lead Acid Batteries
? 
In a recent pub discussion about battery storage 
there was little verifiable wisdom apparent!

If one has the tenacity and strength of mind it is 
recommended that a regular form of booster 
charge, or a continual trickle charge is applied.

However I recall that Dry Storing was another 
option.  

New batteries seem to be delivered dry but 
otherwise in a fully charged condition, and the 
electrolite acid (dilute sulphuric) is then added 
which automatically brings the battery up to I 
recall, about 80% of the full charge, or more 
if allowed to stand for 12 hours or so.

What are the merits, and what is the process 
for preparing a battery, for dry storage?  My 
recollection is of fully charging the battery and 
then draining the acid into a plastic storage 
container.  The battery can then be washed out 
with plain water, or is distilled even better 
perhaps?, and left to dry out then just stored.

Rehabilitating the battery then being a simple 
matter of just refilling the cells with the stored 
acid and off one goes again.

Is there anyone out there of the Electrical 
Persuasion who could comment and give chapter 
and verse on the process to be carried out?

Clive
Oxford UK

From clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com  Fri Jun 11 03:53:38 2010
From: clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com (Clive Sherriff)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:53:38 +0100
Subject: [Mg-t] Removing Sulphation from Lead Acid Batteries
Message-ID: <962AC45A7A9E49CE98913235972FA1F8@cypress>

Removing Sulphation from Lead Acid Batteries

Whilst we are talking of Lead Acid batteries, there
is the  issue of sulphation, where lead sulphate
will build up over time and reduce the efficiency
of the cells until the cell fails.  Totally discharging
a battery and leaving for a time is a good way to
encourage this and ruin a battery in this way!

Tetrasodium EDTA is advised as a means of
"De-sulphating" a battery, either just adding it or
draining and soaking the battery in the stuff.

No doubt there are other reliable chemicals and
totally off the planet snake oils advertised to do
the same thing to greater or lesser result.

Again, Oh Electrically Inclined amongst us, what
benefits are to be had to both maintain a battery,
and to hopefully recover a failing battery by such
treatments?

Clive
Oxford UK

From clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com  Fri Jun 11 06:54:20 2010
From: clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com (Clive Sherriff)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:54:20 +0100
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
References: <D9021810E00E473EA471345CA8FB01E4@cypress><9439E5879132479CBB03619602631112@BacklotTechnologies.local>
	<37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611D18@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>
Message-ID: <5D9E1D2ACEB44174B2BC971F91BB6DB8@cypress>

I always use silver solder (note not the softer
plumbers or electrical solder) for this type of
application. A lot stronger than regular solder.

You can braze, but the silve solder has a lower
melt point than brazing rod and you are less
likely to melt the end fittings.

Dont forget to put the nuts on the tube, and
 the right way round, before fitting the nipples!

Clive
Oxford UK
==================================
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry Shoer" <LarryShoer at comcast.net>
To: <mg-t at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement


> Next we need some discussion about how to attach the copper-nickel
> tubing to the brass solder fittings at the tank and fuel pump.
>
> (I do believe a LOT of us are running around with copper fuel lines.
> Isn't that what Moss sells?)
>
> Larry
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com

From ddubois at sinclair.net  Fri Jun 11 21:21:36 2010
From: ddubois at sinclair.net (Dave and Liz DuBois)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:21:36 -0700
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <5D9E1D2ACEB44174B2BC971F91BB6DB8@cypress>
References: <D9021810E00E473EA471345CA8FB01E4@cypress><9439E5879132479CBB03619602631112@BacklotTechnologies.local>
	<37495C040F909C4693AE1093D0436B7C611D18@backlot01.BacklotTechnologies.local>
	<5D9E1D2ACEB44174B2BC971F91BB6DB8@cypress>
Message-ID: <4C12FD40.2010408@sinclair.net>

> You can braze, but the silve solder has a lower melt point than 
> brazing rod and you are less likely to melt the end fittings. 
Since brazing requires heating the surrounding metal to a temperature 
that will melt a brass brazing rod, the brass nipple will melt at the 
same temperature.  This is a case where silver solder would be the 
material of choice (I have always used straight plumbing grad soft 
solder and have never had a problem.

> Dont forget to put the nuts on the tube, and the right way round, 
> before fitting the nipples!

Now who would ever be dumb enough to forget that :-[

Kind of reminds me of the job I had back in the dark ages right after I 
got out of the Navy assembling electronic photo flash units.  These were 
the big studio units that used Amphenol connectors to attach the lights 
to the power supply.  Said connectors had a screw on ring to secure the 
plugs in the sockets and I was forever getting the connectors completely 
soldered and assembled, only to find the securing ring still on the 
bench.  I finally made a concerted effort to always remember to slide 
the ring into place BEFORE soldering the wires in place and assembling 
the plugs.  After much work and concentration on my part, I got it right 
every time I assembled the plugs, only to have the boss come around a 
bit later and say, "you know, those securing rings are really not 
necessary on thee plugs, just leave them off from now on" :'(
Cheers - Dave

From emmgeeteecee at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jun 11 22:17:27 2010
From: emmgeeteecee at yahoo.co.uk (David Lodge)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 04:17:27 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <4C12FD40.2010408@sinclair.net>
Message-ID: <66137.95541.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hello Clive and all,
I find this interesting because on the TC it would seem that all brass to
copper joints are brazed, e.g. carb overflow pipes, oil line from block to
head, lines to and from filter, etc.  Explanation?
Regards, Lodge, TC 1704, in dreary Vancouver

--- On Sat, 12/6/10, Dave and Liz DuBois <ddubois at sinclair.net> wrote:

From: Dave and Liz DuBois <ddubois at sinclair.net>
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
To: "Clive Sherriff" <clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com>
Cc: mg-t at autox.team.net
Date: Saturday, 12 June, 2010, 4:21

> You can braze, but the silve solder has a lower melt point than brazing rod
and you are less likely to melt the end fittings.
Since brazing requires heating the surrounding metal to a temperature that
will melt a brass brazing rod, the brass nipple will melt at the same
temperature.  This is a case where silver solder would be the material of
choice (I have always used straight plumbing grad soft solder and have never
had a problem.

> Dont forget to put the nuts on the tube, and the right way round, before
fitting the nipples!

Now who would ever be dumb enough to forget that :-[

Kind of reminds me of the job I had back in the dark ages right after I got
out of the Navy assembling electronic photo flash units.  These were the big
studio units that used Amphenol connectors to attach the lights to the power
supply.  Said connectors had a screw on ring to secure the plugs in the
sockets and I was forever getting the connectors completely soldered and
assembled, only to find the securing ring still on the bench.  I finally made
a concerted effort to always remember to slide the ring into place BEFORE
soldering the wires in place and assembling the plugs.  After much work and
concentration on my part, I got it right every time I assembled the plugs,
only to have the boss come around a bit later and say, "you know, those
securing rings are really not necessary on thee plugs, just leave them off
from now on" :'(
Cheers - Dave
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $11.47
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From ddubois at sinclair.net  Sat Jun 12 01:16:08 2010
From: ddubois at sinclair.net (Dave and Liz DuBois)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 00:16:08 -0700
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
In-Reply-To: <66137.95541.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <66137.95541.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C133438.6090506@sinclair.net>

> I find this interesting because on the TC it would seem that all brass 
> to copper joints are brazed, e.g. carb overflow pipes, oil line from 
> block to head, lines to and from filter, etc

I agree that those lines appear to brazed, they also appear that way on 
the TD, but a good hot soldering iron took the ones I have worked on 
right apart.  I cannot explain the appearance of being brazed and I 
would have sworn that that was how they were fastened until I tried 
unsoldering them and it worked.

Cheers,
Dave

From clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com  Sat Jun 12 01:35:03 2010
From: clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com (Clive Sherriff)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 08:35:03 +0100
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
References: <66137.95541.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3A141B1F33DF43C7BDEA68AD78A2766E@cypress>

It is possible that they might have used some low temperature braze rod.  Have
to admit that I somehow doubt they used silver solder, because it has a high
pure silver content and a price to match.

MG accountants would never sanction that!

Having said that, brazing these fittings is easy if you have the experience
and skill, and it is a much easier production process to produce many
identical items in sequence on a dedicated jig set up as production line by a
capable brazer, than it is to set up one in a vice (or propped up against the
coffee cup and a wrench) as we amateurs tend to do for a one off job.

Clive
=================================
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: David Lodge
  To: Clive Sherriff ; Dave and Liz DuBois
  Cc: mg-t at autox.team.net
  Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 5:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement


        Hello Clive and all,


        I find this interesting because on the TC it would seem that all brass
to copper joints are brazed, e.g. carb overflow pipes, oil line from block to
head, lines to and from filter, etc.  Explanation?


        Regards, Lodge, TC 1704, in dreary Vancouver

        --- On Sat, 12/6/10, Dave and Liz DuBois <ddubois at sinclair.net>
wrote:


          From: Dave and Liz DuBois <ddubois at sinclair.net>
          Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
          To: "Clive Sherriff" <clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com>
          Cc: mg-t at autox.team.net
          Date: Saturday, 12 June, 2010, 4:21


          > You can braze, but the silve solder has a lower melt point than
brazing rod and you are less likely to melt the end fittings.
          Since brazing requires heating the surrounding metal to a
temperature that will melt a brass brazing rod, the brass nipple will melt at
the same temperature.  This is a case where silver solder would be the
material of choice (I have always used straight plumbing grad soft solder and
have never had a problem.

          > Dont forget to put the nuts on the tube, and the right way round,
before fitting the nipples!

          Now who would ever be dumb enough to forget that :-[

          Kind of reminds me of the job I had back in the dark ages right
after I got out of the Navy assembling electronic photo flash units.  These
were the big studio units that used Amphenol connectors to attach the lights
to the power supply.  Said connectors had a screw on ring to secure the plugs
in the sockets and I was forever getting the connectors completely soldered
and assembled, only to find the securing ring still on the bench.  I finally
made a concerted effort to always remember to slide the ring into place BEFORE
soldering the wires in place and assembling the plugs.  After much work and
concentration on my part, I got it right every time I assembled the plugs,
only to have the boss come around a bit later and say, "you know, those
securing rings are really not necessary on thee plugs, just leave them off
from now on" :'(
          Cheers - Dave
          ______________________________________________

          Mg-t at autox.team.net
          Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
          Suggested annual donation  $11.47
          Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
          Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
          Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/emmgeeteecee at yahoo.co.uk

From clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com  Sat Jun 12 02:01:05 2010
From: clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com (Clive Sherriff)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:01:05 +0100
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line / Brake line replacement Copper or Kunifer forensic
 opinion
References: <66137.95541.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<4C133438.6090506@sinclair.net>
Message-ID: <FAACFC468ABC49EBAAD3E04D1828E8FC@cypress>

It's just an observation, but the discussion originally 
on the fuel lines drifted into that of brake lines too.

For the fuel line I would suggest that plain old copper
tube is fine, but for the brakes the Copper - Nickle 
(Kunifer) should be used due to it's higher stress 
resistance.

The reason for this is that copper (and most metals) 
"work harden" over time under repeated stress, 
become brittle (it's almost a crystalisation process) 
and finally breaks when it reaches an "elastic limit" 
under what would be a ridiculously low breaking 
stress when new.  You can experienc this by just 
repeatedly bending say, a welding rod about the 
same point. You will notice it gets easier each 
time until it finally breaks at that point. It is a 
form of "stress fracture" and you can also feel 
the heat generated at the break point!

Now the fuel line is not subject to much stress, it 
just sits in place and fuel flows gently through it. 
Any movement in the pipe is easily taken up well 
within the elastic limits of the copper by the radii 
of the pipe's bends and so there is no problem.

The brake pipes however are subjected to a most 
considerable stress due to the very high brake fluid 
pressures generated each and every time we hit 
the brakes, and though the physical movement this 
causes is small, the STRESS induced is high. The 
result over time is work hardening, crystalisation, 
and eventual catastrophic failure probably under 
braking and with a very slight physical distortion 
caused by heavy chassis movement shuch as hitting 
a pothole or mounting a kerb. 
.

So for fuel lines - Copper is OK and Kunifer is 
an overspecification but just as good, but for the 
Brake lines - you definately should use a more 
stress resistant Copper - Nickle alloy tubing such 
as Kunifer.

Clive
Oxford UK

From PopeyMike at aol.com  Sat Jun 12 08:40:06 2010
From: PopeyMike at aol.com (PopeyMike at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:40:06 EDT
Subject: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
Message-ID: <ec1d4.76d8c113.3944f646@aol.com>

Here Hear Here Hear:
 
What a great analysis and how very true.  
 
Michael Balahutrak
53 TD
 
 
In a message dated 6/12/2010 3:11:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com writes:

It is  possible that they might have used some low temperature braze rod.   
Have
to admit that I somehow doubt they used silver solder, because it has  a 
high
pure silver content and a price to match.

MG accountants  would never sanction that!

Having said that, brazing these fittings is  easy if you have the experience
and skill, and it is a much easier  production process to produce many
identical items in sequence on a  dedicated jig set up as production line 
by a
capable brazer, than it is to  set up one in a vice (or propped up against 
the
coffee cup and a wrench) as  we amateurs tend to do for a one off  job.

Clive
=================================
-----  Original Message -----
From: David Lodge
To: Clive  Sherriff ; Dave and Liz DuBois
Cc: mg-t at autox.team.net
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line  replacement


Hello Clive and  all,


I find this interesting because on  the TC it would seem that all brass
to copper joints are brazed, e.g. carb  overflow pipes, oil line from block 
to
head, lines to and from filter,  etc.  Explanation?


Regards, Lodge,  TC 1704, in dreary Vancouver

--- On Sat,  12/6/10, Dave and Liz DuBois  <ddubois at sinclair.net>
wrote:


From: Dave and Liz DuBois <ddubois at sinclair.net>
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Gas line replacement
To: "Clive Sherriff"  <clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com>
Cc:  mg-t at autox.team.net
Date: Saturday, 12  June, 2010, 4:21


> You can  braze, but the silve solder has a lower melt point than
brazing rod and you  are less likely to melt the end fittings.
Since brazing requires heating the surrounding metal to  a
temperature that will melt a brass brazing rod, the brass nipple will  melt 
at
the same temperature.  This is a case where silver solder  would be the
material of choice (I have always used straight plumbing grad  soft solder 
and
have never had a problem.

> Dont forget to put the nuts on the tube, and the right way  round,
before fitting the nipples!

Now who would ever be dumb enough to forget that :-[

Kind of reminds me of the job I had back in the  dark ages right
after I got out of the Navy assembling electronic photo  flash units.  These
were the big studio units that used Amphenol  connectors to attach the 
lights
to the power supply.  Said connectors  had a screw on ring to secure the 
plugs
in the sockets and I was forever  getting the connectors completely soldered
and assembled, only to find the  securing ring still on the bench.  I 
finally
made a concerted effort  to always remember to slide the ring into place 
BEFORE
soldering the wires  in place and assembling the plugs.  After much work and
concentration  on my part, I got it right every time I assembled the plugs,
only to have  the boss come around a bit later and say, "you know, those
securing rings  are really not necessary on thee plugs, just leave them off
from now on"  :'(
Cheers - Dave
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
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From jquilter at peoplepc.com  Sat Jun 12 13:22:43 2010
From: jquilter at peoplepc.com (John F. Quilter)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:22:43 -0700
Subject: [Mg-t] Tappet cover hold down bolts
Message-ID: <450CDE30CC44424AAC05B2EED85D0823@JQLT070909>

Question for those in the know:  I am trying to identify some brass bolts I
have and if they are for the T series tappet cover.  The bolts have a 3/16
whitworth head with an intrigral  shoulder washer.  They measure 1.5 inch
overall length, a 3/8th diameter and they are threaded on the inside.  They do
not fit my TD which has an aftermarket aluminum side cover and uses a similiar
bolt with a 1/4 whitworth head.  Could these be different than the stock bolts
with the pressed steel cover?

John F. Quilter
Brisbane, California

From tsouthworth70 at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 13 09:28:11 2010
From: tsouthworth70 at hotmail.com (Tuck Southworth)
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:28:11 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Tappet cover hold down bolts
In-Reply-To: <450CDE30CC44424AAC05B2EED85D0823@JQLT070909>
References: <450CDE30CC44424AAC05B2EED85D0823@JQLT070909>
Message-ID: <BLU129-W1924DDA03215F3C1F6BB05BFDB0@phx.gbl>

 John,

I removed one of the tappet cover bolts on my TF.  The bolt matches your
discription with one exception, its steel, not brass.  Mine have brass washers
and are drilled through the center to act as breathers (I think).



Tuck






> From: jquilter at peoplepc.com
> To: mg-t at autox.team.net
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:22:43 -0700
> Subject: [Mg-t] Tappet cover hold down bol
>
> Question for those in the know: I am trying to identify some brass bolts I
> have and if they are for the T series tappet cover. The bolts have a 3/16
> whitworth head with an intrigral shoulder washer. They measure 1.5 inch
> overall length, a 3/8th diameter and they are threaded on the inside. They
do
> not fit my TD which has an aftermarket aluminum side cover and uses a
similiar
> bolt with a 1/4 whitworth head. Could these be different than the stock
bolts
> with the pressed steel cover?
>
> John F. Quilter
> Brisbane, California
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/tsouthworth70 at hotmail.com

From LAF48 at aol.com  Sun Jun 13 16:52:01 2010
From: LAF48 at aol.com (LAF48 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 18:52:01 EDT
Subject: [Mg-t] Tappet cover hold down bolts
Message-ID: <9b27d.6ffe0a0.3946bb11@aol.com>

The holes thru the shank of the bolt is because they were originally "banjo 
bolts," for either brake or oil line banjo fittings.
Len</HTML>

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 18 09:22:22 2010
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:22:22 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Clutch Rod Kaput
Message-ID: <SNT124-W3929CF01C566E6094C0E0DB7C00@phx.gbl>

Listers,



I went for a spin in my '54 TF last night, but my fun was cut short when the
clutch operating rod snapped.  It resulted in a long walk before someone I
knew came along and picked me up, and a pricey tow.  But all in all, not a
major nightmare.



This is the second clutch operating rod that has broken on this car in the
last 40 or so years.  This is the "pull" rod that connects to the clutch pedal
and the lever mounted on the side of the engine.  I have ordered, from
Lbcarco, another clutch rod, as well as an adjustable clutch link that will,
hopefully, improve the geometry.
http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/products/PDF/190-422.pdf
http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/products/PDF/190-422.pdf



I have two questions.  First, the TD/TF manual doesn't mention how I get at
the bottom of the clutch pedal, inside the pedal box, to remove and replace
the clutch rod.  Do I access this area from under the car?  Do I need to pull
up the carpet?  The floorboards?  This may become quite obvious when I finally
get under the car and start rooting around, but maybe someone else has dealt
with this and can advise.



Second, just wondering if anyone has any pointers on the job, or on clutch
adjustment generally.  I have found that I have to push the clutch in farther
and farther over the last few years, probably because of normal wear, and I'm
expecting that the adjustable link will improve the "shiftability."



Cheers!

-Mike Eldred

Wilmington, VT





_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with
Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID2832
6::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4

From jquilter at peoplepc.com  Fri Jun 18 14:08:13 2010
From: jquilter at peoplepc.com (John F. Quilter)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:08:13 -0700
Subject: [Mg-t] Fw:  Clutch Rod Kaput
Message-ID: <F437BB5978BF412A927FE443D0AC6BCA@JQLT070909>

I always adjust my clutches for maximum free travel at the pedal consistant 
with a clean, no grinding, shift into first and reverse with the engine 
running, clutch depressed, and the car stationary.  This minimizes the 
strain on the linkage and wear on the release bearing.   Others may 
disagree, however.

John F. Quilter
Brisbane,  California
1951 MGTD
1960 Morris Minor

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Eldred" <redscirocco at hotmail.com>
To: <mg-t at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 8:22 AM
Subject: [Mg-t] Clutch Rod Kaput


> Listers,
>
>
>
> I went for a spin in my '54 TF last night, but my fun was cut short when 
> the
> clutch operating rod snapped.  It resulted in a long walk before someone I
> knew came along and picked me up, and a pricey tow.  But all in all, not a
> major nightmare.
>
>
>
> This is the second clutch operating rod that has broken on this car in the
> last 40 or so years.  This is the "pull" rod that connects to the clutch 
> pedal
> and the lever mounted on the side of the engine.  I have ordered, from
> Lbcarco, another clutch rod, as well as an adjustable clutch link that 
> will,
> hopefully, improve the geometry.
> http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/products/PDF/190-422.pdf
> http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/products/PDF/190-422.pdf
>
>
>
> I have two questions.  First, the TD/TF manual doesn't mention how I get 
> at
> the bottom of the clutch pedal, inside the pedal box, to remove and 
> replace
> the clutch rod.  Do I access this area from under the car?  Do I need to 
> pull
> up the carpet?  The floorboards?  This may become quite obvious when I 
> finally
> get under the car and start rooting around, but maybe someone else has 
> dealt
> with this and can advise.
>
>
>
> Second, just wondering if anyone has any pointers on the job, or on clutch
> adjustment generally.  I have found that I have to push the clutch in 
> farther
> and farther over the last few years, probably because of normal wear, and 
> I'm
> expecting that the adjustable link will improve the "shiftability."
>
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> -Mike Eldred
>
> Wilmington, VT
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with
> Hotmail.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID2832
> 6::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/jquilter at peoplepc.com

From kingseim at earthlink.net  Fri Jun 18 16:47:54 2010
From: kingseim at earthlink.net (John Seim)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:47:54 -0700
Subject: [Mg-t] Clutch Rod Kaput
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-W3929CF01C566E6094C0E0DB7C00@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT124-W3929CF01C566E6094C0E0DB7C00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7699CEA1-DD2A-4A2F-A790-63F1EB3A4B80@earthlink.net>

There is an access panel on the side of the clutch pedal box on a LHD  
TD/TF.
Plate held with three 1/4"-26 BSF bolts, and 1 BSF nut.
Remove the plate, remove the cotter pin from the clevis pin, and  
withdraw the
clutch rod through the pedal box.

Now then... the adjustable link is for the new supplied clutch rods.  
The original clutch
link rods were 13" center to center. Over time, this dimension  
somehow reduced to
12 7/8" center to center, or a loss of 1/8". Wear on the clevis pins,  
as well as wear at
the ends of the clutch link rod, and the clutch lever holes, can  
further reduce engagement
length. The clutch rod stopped being threaded as far down the shaft  
as they used to be,
and current suppliers now thread them about 1/4" less than what they  
used to be.
Couple that with a surfaced flywheel, resurfaced clutch pressure  
plate, and you come
close to a 7/16" loss in adjustment.
Lengthen the clutch link rod to 13 1/2", and the entire clutch  
operation should work
fine.

John Seim
Irvine, CA

On Jun 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Mike Eldred wrote:

> Listers,
>
>
>
> I went for a spin in my '54 TF last night, but my fun was cut short  
> when the
> clutch operating rod snapped.  It resulted in a long walk before  
> someone I
> knew came along and picked me up, and a pricey tow.  But all in  
> all, not a
> major nightmare.
>
>
>
> This is the second clutch operating rod that has broken on this car  
> in the
> last 40 or so years.  This is the "pull" rod that connects to the  
> clutch pedal
> and the lever mounted on the side of the engine.  I have ordered, from
> Lbcarco, another clutch rod, as well as an adjustable clutch link  
> that will,
> hopefully, improve the geometry.
> http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/products/PDF/190-422.pdf
> http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/products/PDF/190-422.pdf
>
>
>
> I have two questions.  First, the TD/TF manual doesn't mention how  
> I get at
> the bottom of the clutch pedal, inside the pedal box, to remove and  
> replace
> the clutch rod.  Do I access this area from under the car?  Do I  
> need to pull
> up the carpet?  The floorboards?  This may become quite obvious  
> when I finally
> get under the car and start rooting around, but maybe someone else  
> has dealt
> with this and can advise.
>
>
>
> Second, just wondering if anyone has any pointers on the job, or on  
> clutch
> adjustment generally.  I have found that I have to push the clutch  
> in farther
> and farther over the last few years, probably because of normal  
> wear, and I'm
> expecting that the adjustable link will improve the "shiftability."
>
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> -Mike Eldred
>
> Wilmington, VT
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts  
> with
> Hotmail.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy? 
> tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID2832
> 6::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/ 
> kingseim at earthlink.net

From lawrie at britcars.com  Thu Jun 24 14:14:36 2010
From: lawrie at britcars.com (Lawrie Alexander)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 13:14:36 -0700
Subject: [Mg-t] Bob Grunau
Message-ID: <A03FCD12845C4F06BDB0F318EBEBEE34@shop>

If I remember correctly, Bob now supplies tapered rear axles for TCs and 
pre-war cars, along the lines of the conversions that Phil Marino used to 
do. I also believe Bob subscribes to one or both of these lists.

If either or both of my recollections are correct, I'd appreciate Bob 
getting in touch with me (or someone giving me contact information) as I 
have a need for a set of axles for a TC.

Thanks!

Lawrie Alexander 

From grunau.garage at sympatico.ca  Thu Jun 24 15:19:23 2010
From: grunau.garage at sympatico.ca (BOB GRUNAU)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 17:19:23 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Bob Grunau
In-Reply-To: <A03FCD12845C4F06BDB0F318EBEBEE34@shop>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP487BA971F100E48CEE37B392C60@phx.gbl>

Hi Lawrie,
I'm alive and well and can supply tapered outer ends rear axles and new
tapered rear hubs for TA/TB/TC and some MMM cars.
Axles are in stock. Also have a list of other parts I supply.
I'll send a list of my parts, with prices, to anyone who emails me off list.
Good MG weather, hope to see some of you at GOF Central, Sandusky Ohio next
weekend. Can even deliver some parts there I know in advance.
Bob
Bob Grunau
150 Pinewood Trail
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada, L5G-2L1
905-274-4136
grunau.garage at sympatico.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Lawrie Alexander
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 4:15 PM
To: mg-t at autox.team.net; MMM Group
Subject: [Mg-t] Bob Grunau


If I remember correctly, Bob now supplies tapered rear axles for TCs and
pre-war cars, along the lines of the conversions that Phil Marino used to
do. I also believe Bob subscribes to one or both of these lists.

If either or both of my recollections are correct, I'd appreciate Bob
getting in touch with me (or someone giving me contact information) as I
have a need for a set of axles for a TC.

Thanks!

Lawrie Alexander
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $11.47
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/grunau.garage at sympatico.ca


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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02:35:00

From lawrie at britcars.com  Thu Jun 24 19:57:25 2010
From: lawrie at britcars.com (Lawrie Alexander)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 18:57:25 -0700
Subject: [Mg-t] Bob Grunau
Message-ID: <1318D09904CD4022BA56CC8412E44BEE@shop>

Thanks to all who responded, including Bob. I have forwarded the contact 
info to my friend who was seeking information (and I have made the 
appropriate entries in my own file!)

Cheers,

Lawrie 

From nels at flightsim.com  Tue Jun 29 16:13:34 2010
From: nels at flightsim.com (Nels Anderson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 18:13:34 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Fouled Spark Plugs
Message-ID: <4C2A700E.4020700@flightsim.com>

It seems that as long as I've had my '53 TD the spark plugs have fouled 
on a regular basis. Last summer I had the carbs professionally rebuilt 
and adjusted and expected that to solve the problem. But today I tried 
to drive the car and it was running so rough I turned right around and 
went home.

I pulled the plugs and found #3 fouled (black material between points) 
and #4 somewhat caked with black material but not fouled. #1 and #2 were 
black but not so bad looking. This is pretty much the same thing I used 
to see before the carbs were rebuilt.

Carbs were rebuilt last September, 1300 miles ago.
Plugs were new last September, 1200 miles ago.
Ignition wires were new in 2007.
Distributor cap, etc. new in 2004.

So I'm wondering what I can do to reduce this fouling? Would hotter 
spark plugs work; I'm currently using Champion L82YC. Would a sport coil 
help (hotter spark)? And if so, I believe the plugs have to be regapped; 
to what setting? Currently they are gapped between .020 and .022 
according to the book.

Thanks for any help.

--Nels Anderson

From PopeyMike at aol.com  Tue Jun 29 17:19:46 2010
From: PopeyMike at aol.com (PopeyMike at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:19:46 EDT
Subject: [Mg-t] Fouled Spark Plugs
Message-ID: <18a07.6666c725.395bd992@aol.com>

Nels:
 
Non of that matters.  The main problem is fuel and air  distribution.  
There is no way on earth that you can balance the correct  amount of air and 
fuel flow.  I found this to be an impossible task -  especially since i get 
older and my hearing is worse since it has deteriorated  due to the rumble of 
the MG Jungle.   I love to listen to that engine  - the true identity of a 
fine sports breed.
 
I have looked for more scientific and better ways to do the balancing since 
 the eyes and ears are fading quickly.
 
So I managed to buy a 
_http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=572_ (http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=572)  STE  air flow 
indicator - make sure you get the right size to fit your carbs.   This site 
is just one of many - so look around prices vary.  About  $30
 
This one single tool did more good in balancing air flow then any other  
method I found before - and believe you me I tried them all.
 
The next thing I invested in is a Gunson color tune spark plug - I actually 
 bought two - to screw into each pair 12 or 34.  About $30 ea
 
What this did was balance the flow of fuel based on the color of the  
ignition.
 
What a remarkable and easy job it is to do this carb tuning and the engine  
hums, Sings, PERCOLATES with the precision of a fine swiss watch.  What a  
difference I tell you, I am sold on this more scientific way and less on 
using  my worn out eyes and ears.
 
Use Google - Check out several sites - prices vary also try Amazon and  
Ebay.  The color tune can be bought used - but the STE I would buy new  since 
it is a delicate instrument and should be in tip top shape to give you  good 
readings.
 
Good luck.
 
Michael Balahutrak
53 TD Houston TX
 
 
In a message dated 6/29/2010 5:17:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
nels at flightsim.com writes:

It seems  that as long as I've had my '53 TD the spark plugs have fouled 
on a  regular basis. Last summer I had the carbs professionally rebuilt 
and  adjusted and expected that to solve the problem. But today I tried 
to  drive the car and it was running so rough I turned right around and 
went  home.

I pulled the plugs and found #3 fouled (black material between  points) 
and #4 somewhat caked with black material but not fouled. #1 and  #2 were 
black but not so bad looking. This is pretty much the same thing I  used 
to see before the carbs were rebuilt.

Carbs were rebuilt last  September, 1300 miles ago.
Plugs were new last September, 1200 miles  ago.
Ignition wires were new in 2007.
Distributor cap, etc. new in  2004.

So I'm wondering what I can do to reduce this fouling? Would  hotter 
spark plugs work; I'm currently using Champion L82YC. Would a sport  coil 
help (hotter spark)? And if so, I believe the plugs have to be  regapped; 
to what setting? Currently they are gapped between .020 and .022  
according to the book.

Thanks for any help.

--Nels  Anderson
______________________________________________

Mg-t at autox.team.net
Donate:  http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation   $11.47
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From feold3 at mac.com  Tue Jun 29 17:59:20 2010
From: feold3 at mac.com (Chip Old)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:59:20 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Fouled Spark Plugs
In-Reply-To: <4C2A700E.4020700@flightsim.com>
References: <4C2A700E.4020700@flightsim.com>
Message-ID: <197134AF-EA2C-450D-A97B-6E2350D0BD25@mac.com>

Nels,

If it is a 1953, and if the cylinder head has not been replaced by one from an earlier TD (or TC or TB), then you're using the wrong spark plug. The late TD/TF head requires a plug with a 3/4 inch thread reach (Champion N series). The L series plug you're using has a 1/2 inch thread reach. In the late head, an L series plug's electrode is recessed into the lug hole, so is shrouded and not exposed to the full blast of combustion and will foul.

If you aren't sure which head you have, there are visual clues that I don't remember off the top of my head. Nor do I remember the correct current N series plug.  I'm away from my books and notes this evening so can't look them up. Hopefully someone else will chime in, but if not I'll post the info later.

Another way to tell is to bend a piece of stiff wire into an el, with the bottom leg of the el very short. Insert it through the plug hole and hook it at the bottom if the hole. Mark the wire parallel to the plug seat. Pull it out and measure to the mark.

If it turns out that you do have an early head on your late TD then the L series Champion is correct, but L82YC is colder than normal. L87YC is better for most standard XPAG engines, or the equivalent heat range from another maker.

--  
Chip Old
Via iPhone Mail


On Jun 29, 2010, at 6:13 PM, Nels Anderson <nels at flightsim.com> wrote:

> It seems that as long as I've had my '53 TD the spark plugs have fouled on a regular basis. Last summer I had the carbs professionally rebuilt and adjusted and expected that to solve the problem. But today I tried to drive the car and it was running so rough I turned right around and went home.
> 
> I pulled the plugs and found #3 fouled (black material between points) and #4 somewhat caked with black material but not fouled. #1 and #2 were black but not so bad looking. This is pretty much the same thing I used to see before the carbs were rebuilt.
> 
> Carbs were rebuilt last September, 1300 miles ago.
> Plugs were new last September, 1200 miles ago.
> Ignition wires were new in 2007.
> Distributor cap, etc. new in 2004.
> 
> So I'm wondering what I can do to reduce this fouling? Would hotter spark plugs work; I'm currently using Champion L82YC. Would a sport coil help (hotter spark)? And if so, I believe the plugs have to be regapped; to what setting? Currently they are gapped between .020 and .022 according to the book.
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> --Nels Anderson

From grunau.garage at sympatico.ca  Tue Jun 29 19:37:27 2010
From: grunau.garage at sympatico.ca (BOB GRUNAU)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 21:37:27 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Fouled Spark Plugs
In-Reply-To: <197134AF-EA2C-450D-A97B-6E2350D0BD25@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP99AEF36B90DC85FA66A66992CC0@phx.gbl>

Early 1/2" reach plug heads take L series Champion plugs and are ientified
by the number 22952 ( as I recall ) cast into the front right top corner of
the head.
Late heads use 3/4" N series Champion plugs and have the number 168XXX
stamped into the front right top corner of the head..
Yes it is important to have the right plugs.
Bob Grunau
Canada


Nels,

If it is a 1953, and if the cylinder head has not been replaced by one from
an earlier TD (or TC or TB), then you're using the wrong spark plug. The
late TD/TF head requires a plug with a 3/4 inch thread reach (Champion N
series). The L series plug you're using has a 1/2 inch thread reach. In the
late head, an L series plug's electrode is recessed into the lug hole, so is
shrouded and not exposed to the full blast of combustion and will foul.

If you aren't sure which head you have, there are visual clues that I don't
remember off the top of my head. Nor do I remember the correct current N
series plug.  I'm away from my books and notes this evening so can't look
them up. Hopefully someone else will chime in, but if not I'll post the info
later.

Another way to tell is to bend a piece of stiff wire into an el, with the
bottom leg of the el very short. Insert it through the plug hole and hook it
at the bottom if the hole. Mark the wire parallel to the plug seat. Pull it
out and measure to the mark.

If it turns out that you do have an early head on your late TD then the L
series Champion is correct, but L82YC is colder than normal. L87YC is better
for most standard XPAG engines, or the equivalent heat range from another
maker.

--
Chip Old
Via iPhone Mail


On Jun 29, 2010, at 6:13 PM, Nels Anderson <nels at flightsim.com> wrote:

> It seems that as long as I've had my '53 TD the spark plugs have fouled on
a regular basis. Last summer I had the carbs professionally rebuilt and
adjusted and expected that to solve the problem. But today I tried to drive
the car and it was running so rough I turned right around and went home.
>
> I pulled the plugs and found #3 fouled (black material between points) and
#4 somewhat caked with black material but not fouled. #1 and #2 were black
but not so bad looking. This is pretty much the same thing I used to see
before the carbs were rebuilt.
>
> Carbs were rebuilt last September, 1300 miles ago.
> Plugs were new last September, 1200 miles ago.
> Ignition wires were new in 2007.
> Distributor cap, etc. new in 2004.
>
> So I'm wondering what I can do to reduce this fouling? Would hotter spark
plugs work; I'm currently using Champion L82YC. Would a sport coil help
(hotter spark)? And if so, I believe the plugs have to be regapped; to what
setting? Currently they are gapped between .020 and .022 according to the
book.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> --Nels Anderson
______________________________________________

From clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com  Wed Jun 30 02:16:13 2010
From: clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com (Clive Sherriff)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 09:16:13 +0100
Subject: [Mg-t] Fouled Spark Plugs
References: <4C2A700E.4020700@flightsim.com>
Message-ID: <77D021A66AAD4E298FCE2FFD2C44CEF2@cypress>

Nels,

A few things spring to mind -

1 Is your cylinder head a later one that needs 3/4 in reach plugs not the 
1/2 inch of the L82xx plugs?

2 Though the carbs have been rebuilt, did you just bolt them on and go, or 
did you fit them and then carefully set them up correctly by adjusting fuel 
mix, balancing them etc?

3 When you say "black material" I assume you means a fine carbon deposit 
which would be the result of too rich a fuel mixture.  On the other hand if 
its a thicker oily deposit it would lead me to think the pistons and rings 
are shot, and/or the cylinder walls are worn /scoured and a rebore is 
needed. In the latter case you would probably also be getting a bit of blue 
smoke from the exhaust too.

Clive
Oxford, UK
===========================


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nels Anderson" <nels at flightsim.com>
To: <mg-t at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:13 PM
Subject: [Mg-t] Fouled Spark Plugs


> It seems that as long as I've had my '53 TD the spark plugs have fouled on 
> a regular basis. Last summer I had the carbs professionally rebuilt and 
> adjusted and expected that to solve the problem. But today I tried to 
> drive the car and it was running so rough I turned right around and went 
> home.
>
> I pulled the plugs and found #3 fouled (black material between points) and 
> #4 somewhat caked with black material but not fouled. #1 and #2 were black 
> but not so bad looking. This is pretty much the same thing I used to see 
> before the carbs were rebuilt.
>
> Carbs were rebuilt last September, 1300 miles ago.
> Plugs were new last September, 1200 miles ago.
> Ignition wires were new in 2007.
> Distributor cap, etc. new in 2004.
>
> So I'm wondering what I can do to reduce this fouling? Would hotter spark 
> plugs work; I'm currently using Champion L82YC. Would a sport coil help 
> (hotter spark)? And if so, I believe the plugs have to be regapped; to 
> what setting? Currently they are gapped between .020 and .022 according to 
> the book.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> --Nels Anderson
> ______________________________________________
>
> Mg-t at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com

From nels at flightsim.com  Wed Jun 30 08:23:03 2010
From: nels at flightsim.com (Nels Anderson)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:23:03 -0400
Subject: [Mg-t] Fouled Spark Plugs
In-Reply-To: <77D021A66AAD4E298FCE2FFD2C44CEF2@cypress>
References: <4C2A700E.4020700@flightsim.com>
	<77D021A66AAD4E298FCE2FFD2C44CEF2@cypress>
Message-ID: <4C2B5347.1090001@flightsim.com>

Oops, it looks like I misspoke on the spark plug type. The L82YC are 
what was in the car when I first got it, and are the wrong type since I 
do have the later head that requires the 3/4" reach plugs. What is 
actually in it now are Champion N5C plugs.

About the carbs. I didn't do any of the work, as I know my limitations! 
The rebuild and install was done by a local expert, who is a full time 
British car only mechanic with more than 30 years experience. He's far 
more qualified than me to install and set carbs, which is why I did not 
expect to see this problem again.

The black deposits on the plugs are what I would believe to be carbon. 
It's dry and hard but pretty thick on the #3 and #4 plugs. I have a 
little smoke from the exhaust, but it's pretty minimal so I don't 
believe I have any serious ring problem.

In general, the engine runs pretty good actually so this isn't really 
that big a problem. If I have to clean the plugs every 1000 miles I can 
live with that but if there's a way to improve it that would be nice.

--Nels Anderson

Clive Sherriff wrote:
> Nels,
>
> A few things spring to mind -
>
> 1 Is your cylinder head a later one that needs 3/4 in reach plugs not 
> the 1/2 inch of the L82xx plugs?
>
> 2 Though the carbs have been rebuilt, did you just bolt them on and 
> go, or did you fit them and then carefully set them up correctly by 
> adjusting fuel mix, balancing them etc?
>
> 3 When you say "black material" I assume you means a fine carbon 
> deposit which would be the result of too rich a fuel mixture.  On the 
> other hand if its a thicker oily deposit it would lead me to think the 
> pistons and rings are shot, and/or the cylinder walls are worn 
> /scoured and a rebore is needed. In the latter case you would probably 
> also be getting a bit of blue smoke from the exhaust too.
>
> Clive
> Oxford, UK
> ===========================
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nels Anderson" <nels at flightsim.com>
> To: <mg-t at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:13 PM
> Subject: [Mg-t] Fouled Spark Plugs
>
>
>> It seems that as long as I've had my '53 TD the spark plugs have 
>> fouled on a regular basis. Last summer I had the carbs professionally 
>> rebuilt and adjusted and expected that to solve the problem. But 
>> today I tried to drive the car and it was running so rough I turned 
>> right around and went home.
>>
>> I pulled the plugs and found #3 fouled (black material between 
>> points) and #4 somewhat caked with black material but not fouled. #1 
>> and #2 were black but not so bad looking. This is pretty much the 
>> same thing I used to see before the carbs were rebuilt.
>>
>> Carbs were rebuilt last September, 1300 miles ago.
>> Plugs were new last September, 1200 miles ago.
>> Ignition wires were new in 2007.
>> Distributor cap, etc. new in 2004.
>>
>> So I'm wondering what I can do to reduce this fouling? Would hotter 
>> spark plugs work; I'm currently using Champion L82YC. Would a sport 
>> coil help (hotter spark)? And if so, I believe the plugs have to be 
>> regapped; to what setting? Currently they are gapped between .020 and 
>> .022 according to the book.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> --Nels Anderson
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Mg-t at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/clive.sherriff at ntlworld.com

From bispmotala at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 30 12:43:58 2010
From: bispmotala at hotmail.com (Ulla&Sven Ordell)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:43:58 +0200
Subject: [Mg-t] Fouled Spark Plugs
In-Reply-To: <4C2B5347.1090001@flightsim.com>
References: <4C2A700E.4020700@flightsim.com><77D021A66AAD4E298FCE2FFD2C44CEF2@cypress>
	<4C2B5347.1090001@flightsim.com>
Message-ID: <SNT140-ds9A3D0DEEF19E200A756BDDDCC0@phx.gbl>

Hi Nels

Champion N5's are probably way to hard which would explain your fouling.
I would suggest you change to N12's for a test and if these are too soft go
to N9,s which is what MGB:s are using.

Best luck
Sven

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fren: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net] Fvr
Nels Anderson
Skickat: den 30 juni 2010 16:23
Till: mg-t at autox.team.net
Dmne: Re: [Mg-t] Fouled Spark Plugs

Oops, it looks like I misspoke on the spark plug type. The L82YC are
what was in the car when I first got it, and are the wrong type since I
do have the later head that requires the 3/4" reach plugs. What is
actually in it now are Champion N5C plugs.

About the carbs. I didn't do any of the work, as I know my limitations!
The rebuild and install was done by a local expert, who is a full time
British car only mechanic with more than 30 years experience. He's far
more qualified than me to install and set carbs, which is why I did not
expect to see this problem again.

The black deposits on the plugs are what I would believe to be carbon.
It's dry and hard but pretty thick on the #3 and #4 plugs. I have a
little smoke from the exhaust, but it's pretty minimal so I don't
believe I have any serious ring problem.

In general, the engine runs pretty good actually so this isn't really
that big a problem. If I have to clean the plugs every 1000 miles I can
live with that but if there's a way to improve it that would be nice.

--Nels Anderson