From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Sat Aug 1 16:56:35 2009 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mg-t] 2009 Ventura, CA British Car Meet Report and Pix Message-ID: <19511483.1249167395324.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Anyone interested in the Ventura British Car Meet can read a report and see the pictures from the meet - click on the link below - It was fun and there were a number of unusual cars that are not often seen anywhere in the States. Check it out!! http://www.allcarcentral.com/Ventura_British_Car_Meet_2009.html Regards, Rick Feibusch British Car Network Venice, California From rdwilt at pol.net Sun Aug 2 17:15:01 2009 From: rdwilt at pol.net (Roger Wilt) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 19:15:01 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] GL-4 vs GL-5 gear oil TD gearbox/diff Message-ID: <6D816E04AFC6439C8A2475C57633C828@Gateway> I have a FREE gallon of 80W-90 GL-5/MT-1 I was going to use to replace the tranny and diff oil in my 51 MG TD but stumbled across a brief discussion re the EP sulfur additive very bad - eats up bronze. Is this real? I don't drive this car hard - maybe 1000 miles/year ..if lucky. Redline MT-90 a better product? Thanks in advance. Roger 51 MGTD 74 MGB From TATERRY at aol.com Fri Aug 7 16:59:48 2009 From: TATERRY at aol.com (TATERRY at aol.com) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:59:48 EDT Subject: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? Message-ID: Gents and Ladies, yesterday I received the top bows from something, MG I think, from a Mr. Ed McCord of Decatur, Illinois. I have no knowledge of this, nor do I know an Ed McCord unless I'm much worse off than I think I was!! ;-) Do any of you know him?? Am I in total brain failure? Don't answer that! Terry in Oakland From jvk52td at aol.com Sun Aug 9 22:38:39 2009 From: jvk52td at aol.com (jvk52td at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:38:39 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBE78B90FAC9B9-CD8-8FE1@webmail-mh26.sysops.aol.com> Terry, I am John Kinney, originally from Hoopeston, IL and now live in Decatur.? I met Ed McCord a few years ago when I relocated here. I met Ed when I worked at Caterpillar as he heads up the large mining trucks. He does have a quite a?few british cars and parts. I will send you an e-mail with his info on it when I find his buisness card. John -----Original Message----- From: TATERRY at aol.com To: mg-t at autox.team.net; mg-mmm at autox.team.net; mg-tabc at yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 5:59 pm Subject: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? Gents and Ladies, yesterday I received the top bows from something, MG I think, from a Mr. Ed McCord of Decatur, Illinois. I have no knowledge of this, nor do I know an Ed McCord unless I'm much worse off than I think I was!! ;-) Do any of you know him?? Am I in total brain failure? Don't answer that! Terry in Oakland Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From GABLEG at ecu.edu Mon Aug 10 06:35:03 2009 From: GABLEG at ecu.edu (Gable, Gerry) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:35:03 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? In-Reply-To: <8CBE78B90FAC9B9-CD8-8FE1@webmail-mh26.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBE78B90FAC9B9-CD8-8FE1@webmail-mh26.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <6B7C343F815BFB4C8FE918CBC25BF6A90C57EBFF51@ECUMB1.intra.ecu.edu> I am only receiving One Email from the Mg-t list every few days or so. Is anyone else having this problem? Thanks Gerry -----Original Message----- From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jvk52td at aol.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:39 AM To: TATERRY at aol.com; mg-t at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? Terry, I am John Kinney, originally from Hoopeston, IL and now live in Decatur.? I met Ed McCord a few years ago when I relocated here. I met Ed when I worked at Caterpillar as he heads up the large mining trucks. He does have a quite a?few british cars and parts. I will send you an e-mail with his info on it when I find his buisness card. John -----Original Message----- From: TATERRY at aol.com To: mg-t at autox.team.net; mg-mmm at autox.team.net; mg-tabc at yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 5:59 pm Subject: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? Gents and Ladies, yesterday I received the top bows from something, MG I think, from a Mr. Ed McCord of Decatur, Illinois. I have no knowledge of this, nor do I know an Ed McCord unless I'm much worse off than I think I was!! ;-) Do any of you know him?? Am I in total brain failure? Don't answer that! Terry in Oakland Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From peter-thiel at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 10 10:48:00 2009 From: peter-thiel at sbcglobal.net (peter-thiel at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:48:00 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? References: <8CBE78B90FAC9B9-CD8-8FE1@webmail-mh26.sysops.aol.com> <6B7C343F815BFB4C8FE918CBC25BF6A90C57EBFF51@ECUMB1.intra.ecu.edu> Message-ID: <0E28FC9CDA73455E8B8F0E32F80796E7@OURS> That's about right, lately. Pete Thiel >I am only receiving One Email from the Mg-t list every few days or so. Is > anyone else having this problem? > Thanks > Gerry From shop at justbrits.com Mon Aug 10 11:26:17 2009 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:26:17 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? In-Reply-To: <0E28FC9CDA73455E8B8F0E32F80796E7@OURS> References: <8CBE78B90FAC9B9-CD8-8FE1@webmail-mh26.sysops.aol.com> <6B7C343F815BFB4C8FE918CBC25BF6A90C57EBFF51@ECUMB1.intra.ecu.edu> <0E28FC9CDA73455E8B8F0E32F80796E7@OURS> Message-ID: <4A805839.8060908@justbrits.com> <> Yep. Ed From crownwheel at surfglobal.net Mon Aug 10 11:42:22 2009 From: crownwheel at surfglobal.net (Gene Fodor) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:42:22 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? In-Reply-To: <6B7C343F815BFB4C8FE918CBC25BF6A90C57EBFF51@ECUMB1.intra.ecu.edu> References: <8CBE78B90FAC9B9-CD8-8FE1@webmail-mh26.sysops.aol.com> <6B7C343F815BFB4C8FE918CBC25BF6A90C57EBFF51@ECUMB1.intra.ecu.edu> Message-ID: <002a01ca19e1$eb886140$c29923c0$@net> Gerry, that's all they wrote... Gene -----Original Message----- From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gable, Gerry Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 8:35 AM To: jvk52td at aol.com; TATERRY at aol.com; mg-t at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? I am only receiving One Email from the Mg-t list every few days or so. Is anyone else having this problem? Thanks Gerry -----Original Message----- From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jvk52td at aol.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:39 AM To: TATERRY at aol.com; mg-t at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? Terry, I am John Kinney, originally from Hoopeston, IL and now live in Decatur.? I met Ed McCord a few years ago when I relocated here. I met Ed when I worked at Caterpillar as he heads up the large mining trucks. He does have a quite a?few british cars and parts. I will send you an e-mail with his info on it when I find his buisness card. John -----Original Message----- From: TATERRY at aol.com To: mg-t at autox.team.net; mg-mmm at autox.team.net; mg-tabc at yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 5:59 pm Subject: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? Gents and Ladies, yesterday I received the top bows from something, MG I think, from a Mr. Ed McCord of Decatur, Illinois. I have no knowledge of this, nor do I know an Ed McCord unless I'm much worse off than I think I was!! ;-) Do any of you know him?? Am I in total brain failure? Don't answer that! Terry in Oakland Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From redscirocco at hotmail.com Mon Aug 10 14:04:56 2009 From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:04:56 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Who is Ed McCord? In-Reply-To: <6B7C343F815BFB4C8FE918CBC25BF6A90C57EBFF51@ECUMB1.intra.ecu.edu> References: <8CBE78B90FAC9B9-CD8-8FE1@webmail-mh26.sysops.aol.com> <6B7C343F815BFB4C8FE918CBC25BF6A90C57EBFF51@ECUMB1.intra.ecu.edu> Message-ID: It finally stopped raining long enough to shut down the computer and fire up our MGs. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_syn c:082009 From kingseim at earthlink.net Tue Aug 11 22:50:10 2009 From: kingseim at earthlink.net (John Seim) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:50:10 -0700 Subject: [Mg-t] MG VA Water Pump diagram Message-ID: Does any one know of a source where I can find an exploded view diagram of a MG VA water pump? Thanks/Cheers, John Seim Irvine, CA USA From leylandauto at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 07:04:01 2009 From: leylandauto at yahoo.com (Carl French) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 06:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mg-t] Urgent help needed Santa Cruz/LaBrea area Message-ID: <896569.46661.qm@web51907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This from the MGExperience forum; This was sent Friday night; received an e-mail for a Chris Johnson who lives in Santa Cruz in the path of the fire that is burning down there and has received evacuation notice. He has a MGTD that he is desperately trying to get out of danger, but it has a dead fuel pump in it. I gave him information on a replacement pump to get him going (provided the car will start once fuel is pumping). If there is anyone in that area that can help him get the car going and out of danger, please call him at 831-466-9256 and offer him whatever assistance you can. Thank you, From budkrueger at comcast.net Sat Aug 15 16:50:18 2009 From: budkrueger at comcast.net (Bud Krueger) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:50:18 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Urgent help needed Santa Cruz/LaBrea area In-Reply-To: <896569.46661.qm@web51907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <896569.46661.qm@web51907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A873BAA.1080805@comcast.net> Carl, have him look at http://www.ttalk.info/LockePump.htm for an emergency replacement. Believe me, it works. Bud Carl French wrote: > This from the MGExperience forum; > > This was sent Friday night; > > received an e-mail for a Chris Johnson who lives in Santa Cruz in the > path of the fire that is burning down there and has received evacuation > notice. He has a MGTD that he is desperately trying to get out of > danger, but it has a dead fuel pump in it. I gave him information on a > replacement pump to get him going (provided the car will start once > fuel is pumping). If there is anyone in that area that can help him get > the car going and out of danger, please call him at 831-466-9256 and > offer him whatever assistance you can. > > > Thank you, > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-t at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t > > Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From ddubois at sinclair.net Sat Aug 15 17:21:07 2009 From: ddubois at sinclair.net (Dave and Liz DuBois) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mg-t] Urgent help needed Santa Cruz/LaBrea area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63918.67.160.19.206.1250378467.squirrel@webmail.donobi.net> Bud - I started the message after getting an e-mail from Chris. At the time that he e-mailed it appeared that evacuations were emanate and it didn't sound like he had much time to scare up the necessary items to make the air pressure rig. I had him clean the points points on his fuel pump and that did the tric. I just got a message from him, stating among other things, "The fire is now 30% contained, and theyre saying that if nothing untoward happens, i.e., dramatic shift in direction and/or velocity of the wind, the firefighters might be starting to prevail. Were keeping our fingers crossed." so it looks like the immediate emergency is somewhat relieved. Thanks to everyone who responded to Chris - my wife and I used to live in southern California in an area that was often hit by wild fires and nothing is quite as intimidating as seeing one of them coming your way. I think, if nothing else, the response from other MG people made Chris feel less alone and saving his car. Thank you all, Dave > Carl, have him look at http://www.ttalk.info/LockePump.htm for an > emergency replacement. Believe me, it works. Bud > > Carl French wrote: >> This from the MGExperience forum; >> >> This was sent Friday night; >> >> received an e-mail for a Chris Johnson who lives in Santa Cruz in the >> path of the fire that is burning down there and has received evacuation >> notice. He has a MGTD that he is desperately trying to get out of >> danger, but it has a dead fuel pump in it. I gave him information on a >> replacement pump to get him going (provided the car will start once >> fuel is pumping). If there is anyone in that area that can help him get >> the car going and out of danger, please call him at 831-466-9256 and >> offer him whatever assistance you can. >> >> >> Thank you, >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Mg-t at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t >> >> Archives at http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-t at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t > > Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From ddubois at sinclair.net Sun Aug 16 01:19:08 2009 From: ddubois at sinclair.net (Dave and Liz DuBois) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:19:08 -0700 Subject: [Mg-t] Urgent help needed Santa Cruz/LaBrea area In-Reply-To: <4A873BAA.1080805@comcast.net> References: <896569.46661.qm@web51907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4A873BAA.1080805@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A87B2EC.7000306@sinclair.net> Bud and Carl, I posted the content of the e-mail that Chris Johnson sent to me on several bulletin boards and forums. At the time I got the e-mail (midnight last night) he sounded pretty desperate and it didn't sound like he had the time to round up the parts necessary to make up the quick and dirty pressurization set up that Stuart Lock cam up with. I thought of sending him the info, but decided that cleaning the points and/or installing a Facet pump would be the quickest way to get the car running. In an e-mail he sent me today, he said that cleaning the points got the car running and that the evacuation order never came. The fire is now 30% contained (at the time of his e-mail) and things are not as desperate as they were at 9:00 PM yesterday (of course that can change in an instant - we have experienced wild fires in southern California ourselves and know how erratic they can be). The responses that he got as a result of my e-mail campaign last night apparently was very comforting to him as he sounds much calmer and in control of things today. Thank you for your response. Dave From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Sun Aug 16 11:53:40 2009 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:53:40 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [Mg-t] THE FREE 2009 BRISBANE MARINA BRITISH MEET Message-ID: <14452337.1250445220472.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> THE 2009 BRISBANE MARINA BRITISH MEET Come join your British car friends in the San Francisco Bay Area for a smashing weekend at the Brisbane Marina for our 32nd Annual British Car Meet and Tour. www.allcarcentral.com/thebritishcarnetwork.html ABSOLUTELY FREE SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 12th b" TOUR TO THE SEA Leave anytime between 8:30 and 10:30AM . This tour takes you on some of the most beautiful roads in the area over to Cameronbs Pub in Half Moon Bay. There are two optional routes. One direct, yet still quite scenic, and the other, a longer more challenging drive. SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 13th b" BRUNCH & CAR SHOW Starts at 8:30AM and goes on into the afternoon. This will be a no fee, no frills, no awards gathering of British car enthusiasts. The Yacht Club will offer an optional brunch and the Brisbane Lions will have a BBQ lunch available all afternoon. HOTEL PACKAGE: At the Radisson Hotel in the Marina for $89.00 per night on Friday or Saturday. You must book your room by August 28th. For reservations contact: Carole Burton at Santa Cruz Travel Phone: 831-632-2323 Email: DIRECTIONS: The Brisbane Marina is located on Sierra Point, just east of the Bayshore Freeway (101) in Brisbane, between San Francisco and the SF Airport. Take the Brisbane/Sierra Point Exit and follow the signs to the Marina. INFORMATION: 310-392-6605 britishcarnetwork at gmail.com www.allcarcentral.com/thebritishcarnetwork.html From sumton at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 16 19:23:56 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:23:56 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] generator to tach connection References: <2E27CD30-1EAD-4919-9B3F-6EB5D40C0613@bcpl.net><200907111831.n6BIV2r5024492@mail.bcpl.net> <93AD3506-C153-4A2D-A35C-19A36846026C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6861401318444E7FA5218F372449B6D2@ranteer.local> hi, all. the generator to tach connection disconnected. i'm not real sure how these go together or what is supposed to be holding it in. here's what i have; the top picture is the part that is off, that connects to the tach cable (still on the car), and the lower picture is where it connects. i get the feeling i am missing something?????? http://www.ranteer.com/misc/ From sumton at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 16 19:42:27 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:42:27 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] tach connection References: <2E27CD30-1EAD-4919-9B3F-6EB5D40C0613@bcpl.net><200907111831.n6BIV2r5024492@mail.bcpl.net> <93AD3506-C153-4A2D-A35C-19A36846026C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <13F5805D53E045AE9CC160AB9BC3E2DF@ranteer.local> that third picture - that little piece - it's broken, isn't it? and there's a little doohickey that holds the gear reduction piece in, right? and its gone? thanks. www.ranteer.com/misc From sumton at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 16 19:44:07 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:44:07 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] tach connection Message-ID: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local> and while i'm at it - what does that set screw collar in the top picture hold in? it doesn't seem like it really does anything. From shop at justbrits.com Sun Aug 16 20:32:05 2009 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:32:05 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] generator to tach connection In-Reply-To: <6861401318444E7FA5218F372449B6D2@ranteer.local> References: <2E27CD30-1EAD-4919-9B3F-6EB5D40C0613@bcpl.net><200907111831.n6BIV2r5024492@mail.bcpl.net> <93AD3506-C153-4A2D-A35C-19A36846026C@earthlink.net> <6861401318444E7FA5218F372449B6D2@ranteer.local> Message-ID: <4A88C125.6090803@justbrits.com> << i'm not real sure how these go together or what is supposed to be holding it in. >> 1] So owing a Shop Service Manual and a Shop Parts Manual is not on your List of priorities, Oliver??? Pic # 1 - get a parts washer Pic # 2 - TOO close - can't even tell what it is. A knurled knob?? Pic # 3 - worn but not 'broken'. Also need parts washer! <> See 1]. Re-setting a camera to 1152pxs wide from 764pxs (???) is WASTED for 'web work'. Use Macro setting to show extreme close-ups. Ed From lkarpman at tx.rr.com Sun Aug 16 20:44:57 2009 From: lkarpman at tx.rr.com (Lawrence Karpman) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:44:57 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] tach connection In-Reply-To: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local> References: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local> Message-ID: <8BB0E221E2684B498D6691B076363174@LarryPC> The set screw holds the reduction gearbox in position, and keeps it from rotating. Often times if it rotates it will contact one of the clips that hold the distributor cover on and ruin your whole day. ----- Original Message ----- From: "oliver" To: "MG" Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:44 PM Subject: [Mg-t] tach connection > and while i'm at it - what does that set screw collar in the top picture > hold > in? it doesn't seem like it really does anything. > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-t at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t > > Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From simbafish at comcast.net Mon Aug 17 09:52:42 2009 From: simbafish at comcast.net (Stuart C. Keen, Jr.) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:52:42 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Questionable Starter Message-ID: How do I test the starter in a TD? The starter turns the engine, but in slow motion - i.e. Lugging effect. 1) I have replaced the Optima battery with a new Interstate one with 700 amp cranking power. 2) I have cleaned all electrical contacts between the battery and the starter. 3) Since ground is often the culprit in a Lucas system, I ran a jumper cable between the battery ground and the starter, but this did not help. 4) I checked the starter brushes and their respective wires and all was okay. The only two items left untested are a) the starter switch and 2) the starter itself. The evidence is: When I try to start the TD, it lugs (thus my initial suspicion of battery or wiring problem). It appears to be zapping the battery (like overload) because if the XPAG engine does not start by the third attempt, there is not enough amperage to crank one more time. Then I tried to make a compression check. Each crank only built up the compression to 30 psi (in the old days it would virtually jump to 150). That's what I mean by slow motion. The highest it would climb was 90 psi (3 cranks) and then the battery was too zapped to turn the engine anymore. I tried to minutely adjust the mount of the starter so not a tight meshing of gears between the starter pinion and flywheel (ring gear), but nothing I did helped. I am suspecting a shorted field wiring or something like that in the starter, but do not know how to test in house. Thanks for any insight and suggestions. Stu Keen 1951 MGTD Mark II PS You might say I am now paying the price for insanely driving this 58 year old MG from Venice, Florida to Prince Edward island, Canada (5,604 miles round trip - 26.03 mpg, 8 qts of oil), arriving home a week ago. The starter problem began on the return trip, outside Albany, NY. Parking on hills and pushing were the methods of choice to start the TD. Kept ye old hand-crank in reserve. From ddubois at sinclair.net Mon Aug 17 10:21:45 2009 From: ddubois at sinclair.net (Dave and Liz DuBois) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:21:45 -0700 Subject: [Mg-t] Questionable Starter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A898399.3080904@sinclair.net> Stuart, I would suggest taking the starter to a good auto electric shop and have them test it. They can tell you if it is good, bad and if it is repairable. If it turns out to be trash, I have one I restored some time ago that I can sell you. Cheers, Dave From budkrueger at comcast.net Mon Aug 17 17:37:33 2009 From: budkrueger at comcast.net (Bud Krueger) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:37:33 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Questionable Starter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A89E9BD.2090204@comcast.net> Stu, it sounds as if the one item you need to check before you take the starter to be tested is the switch. Take a heavy jumper cable and connect it directly between the ungrounded battery terminal and the starter terminal. Be prepared for a bunch of thunder and lightning. If that makes it spin over as it should, there's one more component to eliminate, the cable between the switch and the starter. Connecting the jumper between the battery and the terminal on the starter switch should give you the same effect if it's the switch. Good luck. Bud Krueger Stuart C. Keen, Jr. wrote: > How do I test the starter in a TD? The starter turns the engine, but in slow > motion - i.e. Lugging effect. > > 1) I have replaced the Optima battery with a new Interstate one with 700 amp > cranking power. > > 2) I have cleaned all electrical contacts between the battery and the > starter. > > 3) Since ground is often the culprit in a Lucas system, I ran a jumper cable > between the battery ground and the starter, but this did not help. > > 4) I checked the starter brushes and their respective wires and all was > okay. > > The only two items left untested are a) the starter switch and 2) the > starter itself. > > The evidence is: When I try to start the TD, it lugs (thus my initial > suspicion of battery or wiring problem). It appears to be zapping the > battery (like overload) because if the XPAG engine does not start by the > third attempt, there is not enough amperage to crank one more time. > > Then I tried to make a compression check. Each crank only built up the > compression to 30 psi (in the old days it would virtually jump to 150). > That's what I mean by slow motion. The highest it would climb was 90 psi (3 > cranks) and then the battery was too zapped to turn the engine anymore. > > I tried to minutely adjust the mount of the starter so not a tight meshing > of gears between the starter pinion and flywheel (ring gear), but nothing I > did helped. > > I am suspecting a shorted field wiring or something like that in the > starter, but do not know how to test in house. > > Thanks for any insight and suggestions. > > Stu Keen > 1951 MGTD Mark II > > PS You might say I am now paying the price for insanely driving this 58 year > old MG from Venice, Florida to Prince Edward island, Canada (5,604 miles > round trip - 26.03 mpg, 8 qts of oil), arriving home a week ago. The starter > problem began on the return trip, outside Albany, NY. Parking on hills and > pushing were the methods of choice to start the TD. Kept ye old hand-crank > in reserve. > _______________________________________________ From johnsfolly at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 20:35:22 2009 From: johnsfolly at gmail.com (JohnD) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:35:22 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] generator to tach connection In-Reply-To: <4A88C125.6090803@justbrits.com> References: <2E27CD30-1EAD-4919-9B3F-6EB5D40C0613@bcpl.net> <200907111831.n6BIV2r5024492@mail.bcpl.net> <93AD3506-C153-4A2D-A35C-19A36846026C@earthlink.net> <6861401318444E7FA5218F372449B6D2@ranteer.local> <4A88C125.6090803@justbrits.com> Message-ID: C'mon, Ed! Ease up! People who don't know what a curmudgeon you are just might start feeling bad.JohnD On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Shop at " Just Brits " wrote: > << i'm not real sure how these go together or what is supposed to be > holding it in. >> > > 1] So owing a Shop Service Manual and a Shop Parts Manual is not on your > List of priorities, Oliver??? > > Pic # 1 - get a parts washer > Pic # 2 - TOO close - can't even tell what it is. A knurled knob?? > Pic # 3 - worn but not 'broken'. Also need parts washer! > > <> > > See 1]. > > Re-setting a camera to 1152pxs wide from 764pxs (???) is WASTED for 'web > work'. > Use Macro setting to show extreme close-ups. > > Ed > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-t at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t > > Archives at http://www.team.net/archive > -- Racing in the Past Lane! From johnsfolly at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 20:44:22 2009 From: johnsfolly at gmail.com (JohnD) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:44:22 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] tach connection In-Reply-To: <8BB0E221E2684B498D6691B076363174@LarryPC> References: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local> <8BB0E221E2684B498D6691B076363174@LarryPC> Message-ID: Oliver:Try to find a blow-up drawing of the tach drive gear box and how it connects, or take a close look at someone else's right on the car. It'll become obvious. The back of the dynamo drives the little shaft. The knurled knob holds the shaft into the dynamo. As I remember it, the u-shaped brass thing keeps the gearbox unit from rotating out of position and shorting out your distributor. After you compare yours to a working one, you may decide to just buy a new tach drive gearbox. The little shaft gets chewed up. This can happen if the gears inside the box get stiff or jammed. You may be able to fab something, but...you'll probably have to buy one. Friendly Mr. Ed can help you with that. John Deikis On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Lawrence Karpman wrote: > The set screw holds the reduction gearbox in position, and keeps it from > rotating. Often times if it rotates it will contact one of the clips that > hold the distributor cover on and ruin your whole day. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "oliver" > To: "MG" > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:44 PM > Subject: [Mg-t] tach connection > > > and while i'm at it - what does that set screw collar in the top picture >> hold >> in? it doesn't seem like it really does anything. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Mg-t at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t >> >> Archives at http://www.team.net/archive >> > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-t at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t > > Archives at http://www.team.net/archive > -- Racing in the Past Lane! From jquilter at peoplepc.com Mon Aug 17 20:51:31 2009 From: jquilter at peoplepc.com (John Quilter) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:51:31 -0700 Subject: [Mg-t] generator to tach connection References: <2E27CD30-1EAD-4919-9B3F-6EB5D40C0613@bcpl.net><200907111831.n6BIV2r5024492@mail.bcpl.net><93AD3506-C153-4A2D-A35C-19A36846026C@earthlink.net><6861401318444E7FA5218F372449B6D2@ranteer.local><4A88C125.6090803@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <17388D9639D348A2931F44D1FEF6DC04@JQLT070909> Thank you. John F.Quilter Brisbane, California 1951 MGTD ----- Original Message ----- From: "JohnD" To: Cc: "MG" Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [Mg-t] generator to tach connection > C'mon, Ed! Ease up! People who don't know what a curmudgeon you are just > might start feeling bad.JohnD > > On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Shop at " Just Brits " > > wrote: > >> << i'm not real sure how these go together or what is supposed to be >> holding it in. >> >> >> 1] So owing a Shop Service Manual and a Shop Parts Manual is not on your >> List of priorities, Oliver??? >> >> Pic # 1 - get a parts washer >> Pic # 2 - TOO close - can't even tell what it is. A knurled knob?? >> Pic # 3 - worn but not 'broken'. Also need parts washer! >> >> <> >> >> See 1]. >> >> Re-setting a camera to 1152pxs wide from 764pxs (???) is WASTED for 'web >> work'. >> Use Macro setting to show extreme close-ups. >> >> Ed >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Mg-t at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t >> >> Archives at http://www.team.net/archive >> > > > > -- > Racing in the Past Lane! > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-t at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t > > Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From taterry at pacbell.net Mon Aug 17 21:46:25 2009 From: taterry at pacbell.net (Terry Sanders) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mg-t] tach connection In-Reply-To: <13F5805D53E045AE9CC160AB9BC3E2DF@ranteer.local> Message-ID: <261125.34844.qm@web83404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Oliver, your "doohickey" is broken....go to mossmotors.com, search for part no. 360-040, then click on it....you see a picture of it but not the details...you need this part. It has all the pieces you need. I do agree that you need a parts washer!! Terry in Oakland --- On Sun, 8/16/09, oliver wrote: From: oliver Subject: [Mg-t] tach connection To: "MG" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 6:42 PM that third picture - that little piece - it's broken, isn't it? and there's a little doohickey that holds the gear reduction piece in, right? and its gone? thanks. www.ranteer.com/misc Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From mgcharlie at comcast.net Tue Aug 18 06:08:46 2009 From: mgcharlie at comcast.net (Charlie Baldwin) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:08:46 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Questionable Starter In-Reply-To: <4A89E9BD.2090204@comcast.net> References: <4A89E9BD.2090204@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A8A99CE.2080305@comcast.net> Stu, If the cost to rebuild your starter seems to be a lot or if you want a spare for situations like this, many other British cars used the same starter. This would include MGAs and Spridgets (at least early ones) plus others, I'm sure. This starter is also probably available new, or at least one that works. Of course you would have to not be concerned with it having the right date code. Even then, you may be able to find one that came off of a TD or other car of the same month and year. Charlie Bud Krueger wrote: > Stu, it sounds as if the one item you need to check before you take > the starter to be tested is the switch. Take a heavy jumper cable and > connect it directly between the ungrounded battery terminal and the > starter terminal. Be prepared for a bunch of thunder and lightning. > If that makes it spin over as it should, there's one more component to > eliminate, the cable between the switch and the starter. Connecting > the jumper between the battery and the terminal on the starter switch > should give you the same effect if it's the switch. Good luck. > > Bud Krueger > > Stuart C. Keen, Jr. wrote: >> How do I test the starter in a TD? The starter turns the engine, but >> in slow >> motion - i.e. Lugging effect. >> >> 1) I have replaced the Optima battery with a new Interstate one with >> 700 amp >> cranking power. >> >> 2) I have cleaned all electrical contacts between the battery and the >> starter. >> 3) Since ground is often the culprit in a Lucas system, I ran a >> jumper cable >> between the battery ground and the starter, but this did not help. >> >> 4) I checked the starter brushes and their respective wires and all was >> okay. >> The only two items left untested are a) the starter switch and 2) the >> starter itself. >> The evidence is: When I try to start the TD, it lugs (thus my initial >> suspicion of battery or wiring problem). It appears to be zapping the >> battery (like overload) because if the XPAG engine does not start by the >> third attempt, there is not enough amperage to crank one more time. >> >> Then I tried to make a compression check. Each crank only built up the >> compression to 30 psi (in the old days it would virtually jump to 150). >> That's what I mean by slow motion. The highest it would climb was 90 >> psi (3 >> cranks) and then the battery was too zapped to turn the engine anymore. >> >> I tried to minutely adjust the mount of the starter so not a tight >> meshing >> of gears between the starter pinion and flywheel (ring gear), but >> nothing I >> did helped. >> I am suspecting a shorted field wiring or something like that in the >> starter, but do not know how to test in house. >> >> Thanks for any insight and suggestions. >> >> Stu Keen >> 1951 MGTD Mark II >> >> PS You might say I am now paying the price for insanely driving this >> 58 year >> old MG from Venice, Florida to Prince Edward island, Canada (5,604 miles >> round trip - 26.03 mpg, 8 qts of oil), arriving home a week ago. The >> starter >> problem began on the return trip, outside Albany, NY. Parking on >> hills and >> pushing were the methods of choice to start the TD. Kept ye old >> hand-crank >> in reserve. >> _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-t at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t > > Archives at http://www.team.net/archive [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of mgcharlie.vcf] From shop at justbrits.com Tue Aug 18 08:50:02 2009 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:50:02 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] Questionable Starter In-Reply-To: <4A8A99CE.2080305@comcast.net> References: <4A89E9BD.2090204@comcast.net> <4A8A99CE.2080305@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A8ABF9A.3030808@justbrits.com> Mornin', Charlie !! <> Only Stu can say for sure, but I would think he WOULD be 'concerned' about have correct date code be 'cause he DOES have one (1) of less then a dozen'51 Mk. IIs !!! To coin a phrase, about 10 -15 years ago I was "on a mission from God" to locate '51 MK. IIs as I have one here waiting assembly for which I HAVE sourced ALL of the Mk. II 'goodies !! When I was 'sourcing' said parts I had a couple phone conversations with Al Moss who flat told me that as soon as a Mk. II crossed his door's threshold the FIRST thing to get "tossed in the trash...," WAS the larger Oil Bath Air Filter and the Air Plenum !!!! He also said that if I turned as extra "set" he would like them even tho he didn't have a '51 !!! And yes, found Andrex Shox AND all proper links Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com PS: IIRC, I only actually 'located' either 7 or 8 world wide !!! From Douglas.Ormrod at neurological.org.nz Fri Aug 21 17:17:28 2009 From: Douglas.Ormrod at neurological.org.nz (Douglas Ormrod) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:17:28 +1200 Subject: [Mg-t] Broken axle In-Reply-To: References: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local><8BB0E221E2684B498D6691B076363174@LarryPC> Message-ID: I snapped an axle yesterday - bummer. I have taken it out and it has broken way up inside at the diff end. Seems to have snapped just inside the outer bearing in the diff carrier. So do I have to take the whole rear end out and split the diff or can I take the other shaft out and push the broken bit through form the other side? If it can be pushed through do I need one of those slide hammer things shown in the manual or will the intact shaft come out fairly easily? I guess I should replace both axles at this point. Any advice on the job gratefully accepted. Cheers Douglas in New Zealand From grunau.garage at sympatico.ca Fri Aug 21 18:35:22 2009 From: grunau.garage at sympatico.ca (GRUNAU, ROBT) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:35:22 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Broken axle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Douglas, I think you need to at least take off half the axle casing, the small half. . Yes you can punch out the busted piece with a 3/8" diameter rod, but what about the swarf . I would split the axle, clean out the swarf ( which is SURE to be there ), then reassemble the diff. Install new axle , and carry on. BUT, I would seriously recommend taking the whole rear axle out, stripping it down, checking wear on spider gear thrust bushings etc. replace front oil seal and do the whole job right. 50 yuears ago I snapped an axle and the cause was the spider ghear bushings were so worn that the spider gear teeth did not mesh properly, jammed, and snapped the axle. Do it right the first time. Bob Grunau -----Original Message----- From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Douglas Ormrod Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 7:17 PM To: MG Subject: [Mg-t] Broken axle I snapped an axle yesterday - bummer. I have taken it out and it has broken way up inside at the diff end. Seems to have snapped just inside the outer bearing in the diff carrier. So do I have to take the whole rear end out and split the diff or can I take the other shaft out and push the broken bit through form the other side? If it can be pushed through do I need one of those slide hammer things shown in the manual or will the intact shaft come out fairly easily? I guess I should replace both axles at this point. Any advice on the job gratefully accepted. Cheers Douglas in New Zealand Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From dcongleton at embarqmail.com Fri Aug 21 19:00:56 2009 From: dcongleton at embarqmail.com (Dallas Congleton) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:00:56 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Broken axle References: Message-ID: <88AABEE6CD6E4D18A691379764C0478C@your4dacd0ea75> If you decide to remove the rear axle for rebuild, it would be an ideal time to consider a gear ratio change, if you have a 5.125 gear ratio. Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: "GRUNAU, ROBT" To: "Douglas Ormrod" ; "MG" Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Broken axle > Douglas, > I think you need to at least take off half the axle casing, the small > half. > . Yes you can punch out the busted piece with a 3/8" diameter rod, but > what > about the swarf . I would split the axle, clean out the swarf ( which is > SURE to be there ), then reassemble the diff. Install new axle , and carry > on. > > BUT, I would seriously recommend taking the whole rear axle out, stripping > it down, checking wear on spider gear thrust bushings etc. replace front > oil > seal and do the whole job right. 50 yuears ago I snapped an axle and the > cause was the spider ghear bushings were so worn that the spider gear > teeth > did not mesh properly, jammed, and snapped the axle. Do it right the > first > time. > Bob Grunau > > -----Original Message----- > From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Douglas Ormrod > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 7:17 PM > To: MG > Subject: [Mg-t] Broken axle > > > I snapped an axle yesterday - bummer. > > I have taken it out and it has broken way up inside at the diff end. > Seems to have snapped just inside the outer bearing in the diff carrier. > > > So do I have to take the whole rear end out and split the diff or can I > take the other shaft out and push the broken bit through form the other > side? If it can be pushed through do I need one of those slide hammer > things shown in the manual or will the intact shaft come out fairly > easily? I guess I should replace both axles at this point. From shop at justbrits.com Fri Aug 21 20:59:48 2009 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:59:48 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] Broken axle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8F5F24.50908@justbrits.com> Douglas: I am with Bob G. 1000% !!! You WILL be REALLY be P.O.'d at YOURSELF if something goes wrong because of the swarf. And it will NOT transpire WHEN/WHERE you remotely think you want it to happen (pulling into your drive = NEVER). To see what COULD occur, just visit: http://www.justbrits.com/tdx/tdaxle.html *NOT 'pretty' !!! Ed * From budkrueger at comcast.net Sat Aug 22 06:51:41 2009 From: budkrueger at comcast.net (Bud Krueger) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:51:41 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Broken axle In-Reply-To: References: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local><8BB0E221E2684B498D6691B076363174@LarryPC> Message-ID: <4A8FE9DD.7080208@comcast.net> Sorry to hear about it, Doug. You might take a look at http://www.ttalk.info/HalfShafts.htm for some more insight into the problem. Bud Krueger Douglas Ormrod wrote: > I snapped an axle yesterday - bummer. > > I have taken it out and it has broken way up inside at the diff end. > Seems to have snapped just inside the outer bearing in the diff carrier. > > > So do I have to take the whole rear end out and split the diff or can I > take the other shaft out and push the broken bit through form the other > side? If it can be pushed through do I need one of those slide hammer > things shown in the manual or will the intact shaft come out fairly > easily? I guess I should replace both axles at this point. > > Any advice on the job gratefully accepted. > > Cheers > > Douglas in New Zealand > _______________________________________________ From redscirocco at hotmail.com Sat Aug 22 07:27:38 2009 From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:27:38 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Broken axle In-Reply-To: References: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local><8BB0E221E2684B498D6691B076363174@LarryPC> Message-ID: Douglas, I had the same situation last year - snapped an axle about 20 yards from my garage. Unfortunately, it was 20 uphill yards. Mine snapped in the same place, leaving an axle stub stuck in the diff. To answer your question, yes, you can withdraw the other axle and push the broken bit out. We were able to do it with a long metal rod. I almost seem to remember that we had to bend the end of the rod to accomodate some obstruction in the diff (I could be wrong, though) Take a look at a diagram of the diff so you can "see" where the rod has to go and you'll figure it out, I'm sure. You won't need a slide hammer, since you'll be pushing the stub out - you can just bang on the end of the rod with a heavy hammer. The slide hammer is used for pulling things, and it sounds like you've already gotten one axle pulled out, now you just need to pull the other one out the same way. I wouldn't discount the advice of those who are urging you to rebuild the diff. But, that said, I didn't rebuild mine. I just put a NOS axle in and it has been fine. Actually, I put two NOS axles in, since I had both the old ones out. I would recommend you ask around about axle quality. NOS axles and the specially made, new, competition axles that some people are offering on ebay and the like are my personal recommendation (based on no expert qualification of my own). I have been warned-off new axles that are sold commercially, although the last time I mentioned that on this list, I got a vaguely threatening email from one of the large commercial suppliers, along with specifications for their axles indicating that they were of more than adequate quality. So take it for what it's worth. They're probably fine. I didn't want to take the chance. The only other thing I'd mention, although I'm sure I don't have to, is to replace both outer bearings and the seals while you're at it. They're so cheap it's not worth re-using the old ones. I can find the contact information for the guy I got my axles from if you can't find something more local - at the time he had both NOS and competition axles available. Hope this helps. Keep us posted Cheers, -Mike Eldred 1954 TF 1250 Wilmington, Vermont. > Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:17:28 +1200 > From: Douglas.Ormrod at neurological.org.nz > To: mg-t at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mg-t] Broken axle > > I snapped an axle yesterday - bummer. > > I have taken it out and it has broken way up inside at the diff end. > Seems to have snapped just inside the outer bearing in the diff carrier. > > > So do I have to take the whole rear end out and split the diff or can I > take the other shaft out and push the broken bit through form the other > side? If it can be pushed through do I need one of those slide hammer > things shown in the manual or will the intact shaft come out fairly > easily? I guess I should replace both axles at this point. > > Any advice on the job gratefully accepted. > > Cheers > > Douglas in New Zealand _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail. is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM _HYGN_faster:082009 From Douglas.Ormrod at neurological.org.nz Sun Aug 23 15:43:35 2009 From: Douglas.Ormrod at neurological.org.nz (Douglas Ormrod) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:43:35 +1200 Subject: [Mg-t] Thanks TD Broken axle In-Reply-To: References: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local><8BB0E221E2684B498D6691B076363174@LarryPC> Message-ID: Thanks all for all the advice. The diff and rear end was rebuilt with all new bearings etc. and a better ratio when I restored the car - only done 2000 miles since. So no need to do anything there. I did reuse the original axles which was probably a mistake considering the money I spent on the car! I have now ordered two of the modern uprated ones. The hub bearings are new, but I will replace the seals - discovered one was leaking a bit so need to get the shoes relined as well. It looked like I had pushed the seal too far into the hole so it was right up against the bearing and it was not making good contact on the collar. Have now stripped out both sides. RH axle has broken just inside the distance piece at the end of the tube - so I guess and swarf will be outside of the actual diff casing and in the tube? But perhaps not? Drained the oil and it is clean. Cheers Douglas, I had the same situation last year - snapped an axle about 20 yards from my garage. Unfortunately, it was 20 uphill yards. Mine snapped in the same place, leaving an axle stub stuck in the diff. To answer your question, yes, you can withdraw the other axle and push the broken bit out. We were able to do it with a long metal rod. I almost seem to remember that we had to bend the end of the rod to accomodate some obstruction in the diff (I could be wrong, though) Take a look at a diagram of the diff so you can "see" where the rod has to go and you'll figure it out, I'm sure. You won't need a slide hammer, since you'll be pushing the stub out - you can just bang on the end of the rod with a heavy hammer. The slide hammer is used for pulling things, and it sounds like you've already gotten one axle pulled out, now you just need to pull the other one out the same way. I wouldn't discount the advice of those who are urging you to rebuild the diff. But, that said, I didn't rebuild mine. I just put a NOS axle in and it has been fine. Actually, I put two NOS axles in, since I had both the old ones out. I would recommend you ask around about axle quality. NOS axles and the specially made, new, competition axles that some people are offering on ebay and the like are my personal recommendation (based on no expert qualification of my own). I have been warned-off new axles that are sold commercially, although the last time I mentioned that on this list, I got a vaguely threatening email from one of the large commercial suppliers, along with specifications for their axles indicating that they were of more than adequate quality. So take it for what it's worth. They're probably fine. I didn't want to take the chance. The only other thing I'd mention, although I'm sure I don't have to, is to replace both outer bearings and the seals while you're at it. They're so cheap it's not worth re-using the old ones. I can find the contact information for the guy I got my axles from if you can't find something more local - at the time he had both NOS and competition axles available. Hope this helps. Keep us posted Cheers, -Mike Eldred 1954 TF 1250 Wilmington, Vermont. > Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:17:28 +1200 > From: Douglas.Ormrod at neurological.org.nz > To: mg-t at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mg-t] Broken axle > > I snapped an axle yesterday - bummer. > > I have taken it out and it has broken way up inside at the diff end. > Seems to have snapped just inside the outer bearing in the diff carrier. > > > So do I have to take the whole rear end out and split the diff or can I > take the other shaft out and push the broken bit through form the other > side? If it can be pushed through do I need one of those slide hammer > things shown in the manual or will the intact shaft come out fairly > easily? I guess I should replace both axles at this point. > > Any advice on the job gratefully accepted. > > Cheers > > Douglas in New Zealand ________________________________ Hotmail(r) is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. From Douglas.Ormrod at neurological.org.nz Sun Aug 23 21:49:41 2009 From: Douglas.Ormrod at neurological.org.nz (Douglas Ormrod) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:49:41 +1200 Subject: [Mg-t] Thanks TD Broken axle References: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local><8BB0E221E2684B498D6691B076363174@LarryPC> <60B03C032EC049A6B4C9327F0DBCC10E@JQLT070909> Message-ID: How it broke was that I was going over some judder bars (speed humps). With the IFS the front goes over quite smoothly but the cart springs on the back tend to give you a good bounce. I was probably going a bit fast - I had the clutch in and when the back hit the judder bar my foot slipped off the clutch and it came in with a bang - and that's when it broke! Cheers Douglas -----Original Message----- From: John Quilter [mailto:jquilter at peoplepc.com] Sent: Monday, 24 August 2009 1:38 p.m. To: Douglas Ormrod Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Thanks TD Broken axle I'd probably get flamed for this on the list but if you chose not to fully split and disassemble the center housing why not try to flush out the diff a number of times using some type of solvent like kerosene and see if you get any swarf out. John Quilter Brisbane, California PS my diff was changed from 5:12 to 4:55 gears a number of years ago. Probably should have replaced the axles at the time but they looked fine with no signs of twisting. I wonder if the 5:12 ratio puts more stress on them due to the high torque taking off from a stop. From ddubois at sinclair.net Sun Aug 23 22:34:26 2009 From: ddubois at sinclair.net (Dave and Liz DuBois) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:34:26 -0700 Subject: [Mg-t] Thanks TD Broken axle In-Reply-To: References: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local><8BB0E221E2684B498D6691B076363174@LarryPC> <60B03C032EC049A6B4C9327F0DBCC10E@JQLT070909> Message-ID: <4A921852.5010603@sinclair.net> Doug, That sounds like a good way to snap an axle - I absolutely abhor those speed bumps, but they can be smoothed right out if one can get one side of the car off of them. The best way, particularly with a 5.125:1 differential is to allow the car to roll backward a bit down a grade and pop the clutch to catch it. I've heard of more axles broken that way than anything else and is why I always use the hand brake to hold the car if I am stopped on even the slightest incline. Cheers, Dave From lists at brits-n-pieces.com Mon Aug 24 04:50:04 2009 From: lists at brits-n-pieces.com (Eric Frenken) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:50:04 +0200 Subject: [Mg-t] TD windshield frame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301ca24a8$a34e3e00$e9eaba00$@com> Hi list, I'm in urgent need for a windshield frame for a TD. Although I know they are rare and hard to find I dare to ask the list whether anybody has one (any condition) lying around and is willing to part with it or knows somebody having one for sale. Replies please off-list. Eric From crownwheel at surfglobal.net Mon Aug 24 06:11:46 2009 From: crownwheel at surfglobal.net (Gene Fodor) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:11:46 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Colors Message-ID: <002801ca24b4$0e322140$2a9663c0$@net> Does anyone know if the original paint color of the generator and oil filter assy. on a '52 TD was black or engine color? Tks Gene Vermont From drmoyce at ent-oakland.com Mon Aug 24 08:46:58 2009 From: drmoyce at ent-oakland.com (Andrew Moyce) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:46:58 -0700 Subject: [Mg-t] Thanks TD Broken axle In-Reply-To: <4A921852.5010603@sinclair.net> References: <9EDC2516D4D74523BC0FCEE5163E66BA@ranteer.local><8BB0E221E2684B498D6691B076363174@LarryPC><60B03C032EC049A6B4C9327F0DBCC10E@JQLT070909> <4A921852.5010603@sinclair.net> Message-ID: <8995F275C1E3C749A710CEE5191D1AB127F80C@AHSDC.ent-oakland.local> Mine snapped with a downshift on a long downhill on a back road with lots of potholes. My downfall was ignoring a leaking rear damper (shock). The damper's job is to keep the wheel on the road, and I think the excess play kept beating up the axle with every bump(and the splines in the brake drum, which were also shot.) Andy Moyce 52 TD -----Original Message----- From: mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-t-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave and Liz DuBois Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:34 PM To: Douglas Ormrod Cc: mg-t at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Thanks TD Broken axle Doug, That sounds like a good way to snap an axle - I absolutely abhor those speed bumps, but they can be smoothed right out if one can get one side of the car off of them. The best way, particularly with a 5.125:1 differential is to allow the car to roll backward a bit down a grade and pop the clutch to catch it. I've heard of more axles broken that way than anything else and is why I always use the hand brake to hold the car if I am stopped on even the slightest incline. Cheers, Dave Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From grunau.garage at sympatico.ca Mon Aug 24 09:03:37 2009 From: grunau.garage at sympatico.ca (GRUNAU, ROBT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:03:37 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Thanks TD Broken axle In-Reply-To: <8995F275C1E3C749A710CEE5191D1AB127F80C@AHSDC.ent-oakland.local> Message-ID: Nearly 50 years ago I snapped a TD axle backing out of the drive and turning onto the street. The problem was very worn spider gear thrust washers which allowed end to end teeth contact of the spider gears and locked up the diff. So if you have a broken axle, it is worth while checking there is not a lot of wear in the spider gear brass thrust washers. Bob Grunau Mine snapped with a downshift on a long downhill on a back road with lots of potholes. My downfall was ignoring a leaking rear damper (shock). The damper's job is to keep the wheel on the road, and I think the excess play kept beating up the axle with every bump(and the splines in the brake drum, which were also shot.) Andy Moyce 52 TD Doug, That sounds like a good way to snap an axle - I absolutely abhor those speed bumps, but they can be smoothed right out if one can get one side of the car off of them. The best way, particularly with a 5.125:1 differential is to allow the car to roll backward a bit down a grade and pop the clutch to catch it. I've heard of more axles broken that way than anything else and is why I always use the hand brake to hold the car if I am stopped on even the slightest incline. Cheers, Dave Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From budkrueger at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 09:11:39 2009 From: budkrueger at comcast.net (Bud Krueger) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:11:39 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Colors In-Reply-To: <002801ca24b4$0e322140$2a9663c0$@net> References: <002801ca24b4$0e322140$2a9663c0$@net> Message-ID: <4A92ADAB.9020508@comcast.net> Gene, The generator would have been black, but it's not that simple for the oil filter. It was neither black, nor engine color. It's color depended upon the filter manufacturer. Tecalemit would have been 'bronze'. Purolator was greenish. See http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_finishes.htm#engine . Bud Gene Fodor wrote: > Does anyone know if the original paint color of the generator and oil filter > assy. on a '52 TD was black or engine color? > > Tks > > Gene > > Vermont > _______________________________________________ From mgbob at juno.com Mon Aug 24 10:54:14 2009 From: mgbob at juno.com (Bob Howard) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:54:14 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Colors Message-ID: <20090824.125415.2212.12.MGBOB@juno.com> Gene, On my car, generator was black from new. Oil filter (horizontal filter, integrated w oil pump) cannister was a minty-green metallic, but the cast-iron part was engine red. Bob On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:11:46 -0400 "Gene Fodor" writes: > Does anyone know if the original paint color of the generator and oil > filter > assy. on a '52 TD was black or engine color? > > Tks > > Gene > > Vermont > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-t at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t > > Archives at http://www.team.net/archive > > ____________________________________________________________ Need cash? Click to get a cash advance. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFRKCbx4uuXQ7962ESBHzECXPF0xDzl5u3xYfnTIyxbt1nMPhQR8E/ From crownwheel at surfglobal.net Wed Aug 26 11:48:56 2009 From: crownwheel at surfglobal.net (Gene Fodor) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:48:56 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] Colors Message-ID: <001501ca2675$7c3c82d0$74b58870$@net> Listers, you have shown your true colors, with words, diagrams, color swatches and photos of the specified parts. Thanks to all who responded to my request for help to determine oil assy. and filter colors. This is a great list. Thank you Gene Vermont From sales at justbrits.com Fri Aug 28 06:31:25 2009 From: sales at justbrits.com (Sales at " Just Brits ") Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:31:25 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] [Fwd: Bugeye/Frogeye Club..... Awesome V10 BMW build] Message-ID: <4A97CE1D.8090402@justbrits.com> This just in from a Frogeye Shop Owner in Oz !!!! *UN-REAL !!!!!* Whilst NON-LBC it is just UN-believable !!!! Enjoy !! -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Bugeye/Frogeye Club..... Awesome V10 BMW build Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:55:18 +1000 From: Colin Dodds Reply-To: bugeye AT yahoogroups.com G'day all Amazing fabrication at work. Check out the welding on the exhaust system. It's no robot that did that, and it's unbelievable. I really admire people who can do this sort of shit! Colin http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4515333&page=1 From emmgeeteecee at yahoo.co.uk Sat Aug 29 14:31:37 2009 From: emmgeeteecee at yahoo.co.uk (David Lodge) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:31:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Mg-t] [Fwd: Bugeye/Frogeye Club..... Awesome V10 BMW build] In-Reply-To: <4A97CE1D.8090402@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <131899.6520.qm@web24301.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hmmm! Looks as though his welding is a bit better than mine (ahem!). Regards, Lodge --- On Fri, 28/8/09, Sales at " Just Brits " wrote: From: Sales at " Just Brits " Subject: [Mg-t] [Fwd: Bugeye/Frogeye Club..... Awesome V10 BMW build] To: "4 - Healeys" , "4 - Spridgets" , "9issa" <9issa at justbrits.com>, "4 - MG Ts" , "4 - MGs" Date: Friday, 28 August, 2009, 1:31 PM This just in from a Frogeye Shop Owner in Oz !!!! *UN-REAL !!!!!* Whilst NON-LBC it is just UN-believable !!!! Enjoy !! -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Bugeye/Frogeye Club..... Awesome V10 BMW build Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:55:18 +1000 From: Colin Dodds Reply-To: bugeye AT yahoogroups.com G'day all Amazing fabrication at work. Check out the welding on the exhaust system. It's no robot that did that, and it's unbelievable. I really admire people who can do this sort of shit! Colin http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4515333&page=1 Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From crownwheel at surfglobal.net Sun Aug 30 08:19:42 2009 From: crownwheel at surfglobal.net (Gene Fodor) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:19:42 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] TD Colors Message-ID: <002c01ca297c$ebccc6f0$c36654d0$@net> Listers . A week or so ago I asked for help on colors of the TD's oil filter, etc. So many responded and I thank you all again. The request for was a friend, Dave Sander who is rebuilding the TD. And one of our listers sent a note saying, "Gene - Don't keep your secret, at least share. THX...Mick" I asked Dave if it was OK to share this story hand he agreed that it was. So, here's the rest of the story: Dave is rebuilding the TD that Frank Churchill the co-founder of the New England MGT Resister was killed in a number of years ago but seem like only yesterday. It is a full ground up restoration with a lot of welding and straightening going on. This is not only a rebuild/restoration it is a project of love. So, now you know the rest of the story. Gene Vermont From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Sun Aug 30 10:59:15 2009 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 09:59:15 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [Mg-t] THE WOODSTOCK (NY) BRITISH CAR MEET - SATURDAY, SEPT. 26 Message-ID: <14036767.1251651555810.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Second Annual WOODSTOCK BRITISH CAR MEET (British motorcycles & pre-1980 European cars invited too) SATURDAY, SEPT. 26 10 am to 4 pm (Rain Date: Sunday, September 27) Woodstock Playhouse Intersection of Route 212 and Route 375, Woodstock, NY Join more than 100 British car owners for a smashing display of classic, quirky, and lovable British classics, right in the heart of Woodstock New York and the Catskill Mountains. Don't have a show car? Don't worry! Projects-in-progress, daily drivers, and vintage racers are just as welcome as Concours d'Elegance show cars. If it's British, bring it! Cars will enter the field starting at 10 am, and the fun goes on all day. Around 2 pm, we'll present awards, including People's Choice and the Longest Distance Traveled. Spectators are welcome, and FREE parking is available. The heart of the picturesque historic hamlet of Woodstock is just minutes' walk from the Playhouse, offering shops, restaurants, live music, and much more. The registration fee for British cars is $15 per car at the gate; there is no pre-registration. All proceeds from this event benefit the Woodstock Playhouse ( a non-profit org. ) Food and Refreshments will be available DIRECTIONS >From NYS Thruway / I-87: Take Exit 19 (Kingston) and head west on Route 28 for 5.8 miles (Speed Trap - stay under 50 mph) then turn right onto Route 375 North, which will end 2.9 miles later at Route 212 and the Playhouse. >From Saugerties (Exit 20) Take Route 212 West into the hamlet of Woodstock. The intersection of Route 375 will be on your left; the Playhouse entrance is on your right. >From points west: Take Route 28 East to Route 375 North. Travel 2.9 miles, and the road will end at Route 212 and the Playhouse. FOR MORE INFORMATION: e-mail Woodstock.British at gmail.com From sales at justbrits.com Sun Aug 30 16:48:45 2009 From: sales at justbrits.com (Sales at " Just Brits ") Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:48:45 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] VERY interesting article Message-ID: <4A9B01CD.7030304@justbrits.com> Hope you folks 'enjoy' !!!! http://www.carlectro.com/node/33 Anon From crownwheel at surfglobal.net Mon Aug 31 08:46:14 2009 From: crownwheel at surfglobal.net (Gene Fodor) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:46:14 -0400 Subject: [Mg-t] More on colors Message-ID: <004401ca2a49$cadc39d0$6094ad70$@net> As some of the color information was sent to me off list, I was asked to share that information with others. As we can't do pix, you will have to read the description into these responses: Cheers Gene in VT Gene, The generator would have been black, but it's not that simple for the oil filter. It was neither black, nor engine color. It's color depended upon the filter manufacturer. Tecalemit would have been 'bronze'. Purolator was greenish. See http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_finishes.htm#engine . Attached are a couple of photos- The accepted colors now are black for the generator and starter, and the brackets. The oil filter canister is painted a light green or bronze, depending upon type. The base of the filter assembly is engine color. (In actual practice back in the day, the entire assembled engine was many times given a final complete re-spray of engine color - hoses, brackets and all.) Dallas Gene, On my car, generator was black from new. Oil filter (horizontal filter, integrated w oil pump) cannister was a minty-green metallic, but the cast-iron part was engine red. Bob Gene - my car is pretty original; of course i don't know what's been replaced. the generator is black; the oil filter assembly is a painted green color. seems similar to the obviously replacement water pump that we had to replace. if i had to guess i'd say its not original. being the second owner (the first owner died) i really can't know for sure. let me know if you want me to take pictures. Oliver <<...original paint color of the || generator || and || oil filter assy.|| ..................on a '52 TD was || black.......|| or.. ||..engine color.||?>> To the best of my knowledge (and how I have treated cars to date), Gene: || in order as above ||!!! Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com Gene- Have you ever tried this site? http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_finishes.htm Also there are some good photos of an original TD as shown: http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgtd/Pictures/UnRstr51/Thumbnails/mgtd_gallery_unrs trd51.htm I hope this helps. Roy Challberg Generator body was black. Pulley, or pulley/fan combination was engine red. If the fan is stamped steel, it was black. The cast iron pulley and pulley/fan castings were red. Oil Filter Cannister. Many books give these colors for the cannister. Depends on the manufacturer. Tecalemite had a metal plate with two rivets attached to the cannister. If you go to the Abingdon Spares website, and look at Engine, External (Page 3) it will show some differences with the washer on the end of the cannister, to help ID the cannisters. I suspect that the information from the books was taken from parts off the shelf, in boxes from the manufacturer's. Tecalemite: Coppery Brown Purolator: Light Green John Seim Irvine, CA That was the thread off line . From sumton at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 31 09:30:35 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:30:35 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] fuel lines Message-ID: hi all. been discussing what is original and what is available. my fuel lines are both braided cloth, probably rubber inside that. both moss and abingdon sell metal fuel lines. anyone know what's original, and if its the cloth braid where to get it? thanks Oliver From taterry at pacbell.net Mon Aug 31 10:21:12 2009 From: taterry at pacbell.net (Terry Sanders) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mg-t] fuel lines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <505843.53982.qm@web83401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Oliver, get rid of those original fuel lines as soon as possible. They are dangerous and fire is a likely result...go with the Moss or AS fuel lines as they have teflon tubing in side the metal sleeves and will not fail with the use of modern petrol. They most likely were metal with rubber tubing inside originally. Terry in Oakland --- On Mon, 8/31/09, oliver wrote: From: oliver Subject: [Mg-t] fuel lines To: "T series list" Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 8:30 AM hi all. been discussing what is original and what is available. my fuel lines are both braided cloth, probably rubber inside that. both moss and abingdon sell metal fuel lines. anyone know what's original, and if its the cloth braid where to get it? thanks Oliver Mg-t at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-t Archives at http://www.team.net/archive From sales at justbrits.com Mon Aug 31 11:08:22 2009 From: sales at justbrits.com (Sales at " Just Brits ") Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:08:22 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] fuel lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A9C0386.7090101@justbrits.com> << been discussing what is original and what is available. >> Haven't you BOUGHT any books so that you might actually LEARN something, Oliver ????? Geesh. Ed From anngene at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 31 11:43:09 2009 From: anngene at bellsouth.net (anngene at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:43:09 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] fuel lines In-Reply-To: <4A9C0386.7090101@justbrits.com> References: <4A9C0386.7090101@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <4BEEA65F14A84E98B3971B6CE56703A4@Home> Agreed.... Asking questions is great but it seems every thing you've asked could have been answered by the most rudimentary book on the T-series or by going to a show and asking fellow T-series owners. I don't want to seem to be putting you down but in the *old* days you could actually LEARN about the cars from books and photos. Gene -------------------------------------------------- From: "Sales at " Just Brits "" Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:08 PM Cc: "T series list" Subject: Re: [Mg-t] fuel lines > << been discussing what is original and what is available. >> > > Haven't you BOUGHT any books so that you might actually > LEARN something, Oliver ????? > > Geesh. > > Ed > _______________________________________________ From anngene at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 31 15:54:00 2009 From: anngene at bellsouth.net (anngene at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:54:00 -0500 Subject: [Mg-t] Fuel Lines Message-ID: <8D6EBFB5358D4991B9D4131E4591A6B6@Home> I want to apologize for an email I sent earlier today on this subject. It was the type of response that should not have been sent to a list but should have stayed between myself and Oliver. For that matter I should never have sent the email at all...I was wrong in every respect and I hope Oliver will forgive me, forget what I said and continue to ask questions. Again, I apologize. Gene Gillam Saucier, MS