From lpalmer at roundaboutmanor.com Sun Oct 4 17:59:12 2009 From: lpalmer at roundaboutmanor.com (Lew Palmer) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 18:59:12 -0500 Subject: [Mg-mmm] PA Instruments Message-ID: I'm redoing the instrument faces in PA1169 but need some information: On the tachometer, what does the small text either side of the Jaeger logo say? Spelling, punctuation, and capitalization is important, so if you can help, please specify exactly how the lettering appears. Cheers, Lew Palmer From grunau.garage at sympatico.ca Sun Oct 4 18:22:38 2009 From: grunau.garage at sympatico.ca (GRUNAU, ROBT) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:22:38 -0400 Subject: [Mg-mmm] FW: [mg-tabc] TA/TB and MMM spring trunnion repair pieces. Message-ID: Hi All, I need new rear spring trunnion repair sets for a couple of MMM and TA cars. I have investigated the possible manufacture of the repair tube, brass trunnion slider bearings, spacer washers and threaded nuts as a complete rear replacement assembly. BTW, both rear hex nuts are left hand thread on both sides. Phosphour bronze can be used for the bushes if desired ( slight cost increase ). If there is sufficient interest, I will proceed with the manufacture. The pieces will be very well made of high grade steel for the steel parts. The final price at this time is unknown as the cost will vary greatly with the numbers produced. This would be a one off batch made on CNC lathe and milling machines. Initial prices are $225.00 each side for the COMPLETE assembly if only 25 pieces are made. This price would include steel trunnion chassis extension repair tube, pair of brass bushes, steel spacer washer with pin, hardened steel disc next to brass bushes, and a new left hand thread outer nut. Price will be reduced if you don't need, or want, the complete assembly. Price would drop to approximately $150.00 each side if I can get enough orders to make 100 pieces ( 50 cars ). The same rear trunnion pieces will work for MMM cars and TA/TB. Variation in spring thickness in the brass bushes can be accomodated in the price. So if interested, please let me know, I need some idea of quantity to see if this is a product that people need. Thanks and best regards, Bob Bob Grunau 150 Pinewood Trail Mississauga, Ontario Canada, L5G-2L1 905-274-4136 grunau.garage at sympatico.ca The greasing system on the rear trunnions is a quite odd arrangement and I dont know if anyone makes the parts - S &V are the most likely source, and of course you can buy the whole rear trunnion repair sets to replace the ends of the main cross tube. Right hand thread one side, but left hand on the other dont forget! Clive =============================== FrC%n: mg-tabc at yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc at yahoogroups.com] FC6r Frank raham kickat: den 22 juli 2009 08:53 ill: mg-tabc at yahoogroups.com _____ mne: [mg-tabc] Re: TA spring trunnion dimensions needed I am attempting to resurrect a much abused TA chassis. I have the trunnion oxes for the front springs but nothing at all for the rear o nes. I am lanning to make my own trunnion bushings using a 1" bar of CDA 954 Aluminum ronze which is considered a heavy duty bearing material. I have a lathwe ad a milling machine so why not! The front springs are in good shape but he rears have very heavy wear at the rear of the main leaf. I have several ets of TC springs and I'm planning on having a local spring shop modify a C main leaf by cutting off most of the rear spring eye and flattening the emaining end. The TC main leaf is significantly thicker than the very worn A spring. I need details on the dimensions of the trunnion bushings and the ear distance piece that I see in the factory parts list. Was the rear istance piece brass or steel and what was the thickness and diameter? How uch clearance should there be between the bushing and the spring? I am also issing the hexagonal cap nuts for the rear trunnions...anyone have spares or sale or can recommend a good source for these or the rubber dust covers? Frank [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (5) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Members Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity a.. 3New Members b.. 4New Photos Visit Your Group Give Back Yahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ From lpalmer at roundaboutmanor.com Sun Oct 4 18:49:05 2009 From: lpalmer at roundaboutmanor.com (Lew Palmer) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 19:49:05 -0500 Subject: [Mg-mmm] PA Instruments In-Reply-To: <51C02FE294E8C74490CF76D0632025965138EA5161@chimera.northpark.edu> References: <51C02FE294E8C74490CF76D0632025965138EA5161@chimera.northpark.edu> Message-ID: <2D359EE2AABE49E3BDACFC423AE95D50@roundabout.com> Thanks, Phil! Cheers, Lew -----Original Message----- From: Anderson, Philip J [mailto:panderson at Northpark.edu] Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 7:21 PM To: Lew Palmer Subject: RE: [Mg-mmm] PA Instruments Lew, On my PA1212 it reads in very small capital letters: To the left: MADE IN ENGLAND To the right: PATENTED IN ENGLAND I hope this comes through as I typed it. Phil Anderson -----Original Message----- From: mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Lew Palmer Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:59 PM To: mg-mmm at autox.team.net; Emgeeguy at aol.com; 'Bill Tantau'; DB35PA at aol.com; 'Dan and Jenny Fest(Coles Nurseries Inc)'; 'DanielShockey' Subject: [Mg-mmm] PA Instruments I'm redoing the instrument faces in PA1169 but need some information: On the tachometer, what does the small text either side of the Jaeger logo say? Spelling, punctuation, and capitalization is important, so if you can help, please specify exactly how the lettering appears. Cheers, Lew Palmer Mg-mmm at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm You are subscribed as panderson at northpark.edu http://www.team.net/archive From grunau.garage at sympatico.ca Sun Oct 11 07:47:02 2009 From: grunau.garage at sympatico.ca (GRUNAU, ROBT) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:47:02 -0400 Subject: [Mg-mmm] FW: Torque Values Message-ID: Morning MMMers, I have been asked by the engine man for NA-0686 for some engine bolt torque values. Below is my findings and answers. Can anyone of you please add to the information or correct it if wrong. Thanks for any information. Bob Grunau in Canada where we are waiting for snow!! PA-0531 NA-0686 KN-0389 My correspondence below: 35 will be OK for the head studs and nuts, these are special purpose built rolled thread studs, the supplier says can go to 50 ft-lbs but that is way too much for the head. yes 35 may be on the high side for the 3/8" cheese bolts, Peter Green says it is OK with oiled threads. I tried the cheeses bolts on my PA block, same design, and they pulled up OK at 35 ft-lbs. Took about 45 ft-lbs to break them loose. In general terms, BSF torque values are shown as about 5% less the NF torque values for various size and similar grades of bolts. I confirmed this this morning, using a new BSF Grade "R" bolts, 3/8"- BSF Gr "R" at 35 ft-lbs torque to 45 ft-lbs torque turning the NUT, in increments, no significant bolt elongation so I think 35 ft-lbs is OK. Bolt/nut were stripped at 47.5 ft-lbs. Repeated the test with new Grade "R" 3/8" BSF bolt by turning the BOLT, same result, no stretch between 35 and 45 ft-lbs. However in both cases, the bolt and nut were buggered going to 47.5 ft-lbs. Doing a Google search for BSF recommended torques, , I found a page that shows grade "R" 3/8" bolt recommended torque at 32 ft-lbs. Same table shows UNF at 34 ft-lbs recommended. So I guess this confirms we are OK at 32 ft-lbs, max 35 ft-lbs for 3/8" BSF bolt/nut. Repeated the test with 5/16" BSF Grade "R" bolt and nut, here 20 ft-lbs and below was OK Soon as I went to 25 ft-lbs had significant bolt strech. At 27 ft-lbs the bolt and nut were buggered. The Google chart, 5/16" BSF-Grade "R" fastener recommends 18 ft-lbs and same chart says 19 ft-lbs for UNF. So I guess 18 to 20 ft-lbs max is the range for 5/16" BSF grade 'R" new bolts. 1`/4" BSF grade "R" torque is recommended at 9.1 ft-lbs, UNF = 9.3 ft-lbs in the same table. Hope this helps. Bob 35 seems high to me but I'll work up to it and see how it feels. I may stop earlier if I think the bolts are stretching too much. Any other values would be helpful. Head stud nuts are 35 ft-lbs, 40 absolute max. I assume bolts holding the cheeses are the same 35 ft-lbs and this was confirmed this morning from Peter Green in the UK who sold me the block and crank. So use 35 ft-lbs for the cheese bolts as these are also 3/8" BSF. He says remainder of bolts are not critical and so I would use NF bolt torques. Grade 5 ????? Peter also had some obvious observations, ie: 1-Cheeses to be in and torqued before/during line boring the block. 2-Cheeses to be marked and install same way around after line boring. 3-Rear housing 9 bolts should be lock wired on final assembly. 4-Rest of the engine is just common sense and he says should be no problem. 5-He agrees with usung the shell bearings, again he said cheeses to be torqued before line boring shells. 6-Chesses to be in and torqued for the cylinder boring. All common stuff and I know you know it. I will try to get more info re torques but not sure there is much more available. I might try a few BSF bolts tightened to destruction to see what torque they take before failure. Would this be usefull? Also will go on the internet and try to find BSF recommended torque values. Block's going in the machine but I need torque values for the various fasteners. Can you assist? From TATERRY at aol.com Wed Oct 14 13:24:37 2009 From: TATERRY at aol.com (TATERRY at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:24:37 EDT Subject: [Mg-mmm] Rusty nuts Message-ID: A friend sent me this....interesting!! Terry in Oakland For those who do their own restoration work, here's some interesting comparisons on penetrating oils. Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrates for break-out torque on rusted nuts. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment. *Penetrating Oil and Average Load* Nothing..................... 516 pounds WD-40....................... 238 pounds PB Blaster................ 214 pounds Liquid Wrench......... 127 pounds Kano Kroil............... 106 pounds ATF-Acetone mix..... 53 pounds The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50-50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price From mgtom at zoominternet.net Sun Oct 18 11:08:14 2009 From: mgtom at zoominternet.net (Tom Metcalf) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:08:14 -0400 Subject: [Mg-mmm] Vintage Restoration Retirement References: Message-ID: Hello Group, My good friend, John Marks of Vintage Restorations, has been wrestling with the thought of retirement for the past few years. Unfortunately for us, after 42 years, that time has now come. John's knowledge of Triple-M, T-Series, and even up through modern MGA-B instruments is second to none. Plus, those of you fortunate enough to have met John through the years already know he and his wife Monica are simply world class folks. John's dedication to "getting it right" can be seen on many of our dashboards around the world, in addition to many cars that many of us can only dream about outside our MG world. Some of John's retirement reasons say it best in edited excerpts from his email to me Friday...... _____________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________ ............Dick and I started trading in 1967, and 2009 has been a awful year due to friends, colleagues, and employees retiring, dying, or ill ! Seven funerals since October 2008! Now it is time to decide. 'Officialdom' has become overwhelming with more new Customs regulations on work coming in from overseas, to the degree that I would probably have to insist on items being sent to us through a shipping agent, rather than post and UPS, all of which ends up costing as much and more than the work involved is worth. Paperwork returning goods to prove export without VAT is just as bad! Yet in spite of the recession we are overloaded with work and turning jobs away. So regrettably, after months of consideration and many restless nights, I have finally decided to close the business Vintage Restorations. Some jobs in hand will be returned as received, others where practical we will complete. This applies to jobs worldwide. Somehow, I have to get the message across to stop sending parcels to us unannounced. I have today asked DMR, the host of the MG car club Web Site, to 'delete us' and put a note on informing the situation. Will you please write a short note to this effect on the mg-tabc at yahoogroups.com and the Triple M register? We see every day the mail and discussions on mg-tabc at yahoogroups.com hosted by Jim Shade. I would prefer not to be flooded with emails or phone calls, so could you ask Jim to remove us from this link (immediately, please), and those who are in contact can remain so. The rest I prefer not to hear about!! Quite a decision after forty two years, but John (Whiteman), my remaining engineer retires next year, so even if I did find someone out of three million unemployed, it only prolongs the agony, and I cannot get any time off for 'family'... The (end of track) buffers are in sight. Has to come!!! All gettin older'....... _____________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________ Folks, note that John has asked to not be flooded with emails. John is quite content knowing he has done his very best Smith's & British Jaeger work in those years, while realizing there are always going to be a few "soreheads" that come along with any job. Also, note that John would like to be removed from the TABC List immediately. If you have been planning on sending a job to John - large or small, DO NOT. He is not preprared to go through the paperword involved to get the job in, and quite literally, their staff is now down to the very minimum. Any packages will be returned regardless of its origins. That's the retirement news. Tom Metcalf www.safetyfastrestoration.com in cold but sunny Mansfield, Ohio From DB35PA at aol.com Wed Oct 21 08:45:18 2009 From: DB35PA at aol.com (DB35PA at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:45:18 EDT Subject: [Mg-mmm] door safety latch Message-ID: Gents, I have a friend who owns an MGT-D with a "flying" door. He's trying to restore and is resisting using any standard "gate latch" hardware for something more period correct. Anyone have a source for a set of safety latches? I'll be helping him replace the broken hinge, refit the latch... and repair body damage incurred. Luckily, no one left the car at speed, but he did get quite and ear full from wifey! Don B. From lawrie at britcars.com Wed Oct 21 10:12:58 2009 From: lawrie at britcars.com (Lawrie Alexander) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:12:58 -0700 Subject: [Mg-mmm] door safety latch References: Message-ID: <25BB0AC2CD4445D689FA6EF4C4952017@shop> Don, There is absolutely no need for any safety latch if the door is made to fit and close properly! If the hinges are tight, the door fits the opening properly and the body is solid, there will be minimal flex which would cause the door to want to come open. So, all you have to do is properly mount the striker so that the "pin" of the latch on the door fully enters the hole in the striker wedge when the door is closed. The usual problem is that people assume the door latch pin is supposed to engage the notch on the wedge, and that the hole is there just for decoration (or to lighten the striker?!). In fact, the notch is the factory's "safety" and the hole is for the latch pin. When that hole is properly aligned (by carefully fitting the striker assembly to the A-pillar) the pin goes in so far that there's no bump on earth that would cause the door to fly open. Cheers, Lawrie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:45 AM Subject: [Mg-mmm] door safety latch > Gents, > I have a friend who owns an MGT-D with a "flying" door. He's trying to > restore and is resisting using any standard "gate latch" hardware for > something more period correct. > > Anyone have a source for a set of safety latches? I'll be helping him > replace the broken hinge, refit the latch... and repair body damage > incurred. > Luckily, no one left the car at speed, but he did get quite and ear full > from wifey! > > Don B. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-mmm at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm > > You are subscribed as lawrie at britcars.com > > http://www.team.net/archive From pthelander at earthlink.net Wed Oct 21 17:57:56 2009 From: pthelander at earthlink.net (Pete Thelander) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:57:56 -0700 Subject: [Mg-mmm] door safety latch Message-ID: <410-2200910321235756500@earthlink.net> Don, Lawrie correct. What he did not get into is how to "properly mount the striker....". Trying to mount the striker to line up with the latch (or visa versa) is usually a hit and miss, trial and error proposition. What I have found to work (and I believe is the sequence the factory must have used) is to install the latch and striker as an assembly. They both have four mounting holes for attaching to their respective frames. If you look carefully, you will find two holes go to captive nuts in a cage which allow them to float and the other two holes are wood screws. Once you have the door fitting into the body opening properly, (bend or shim hinges as required) mount the striker with the machine bolts into the captive nuts leaving them a bit loose. With the latch engaged into the striker, bring the door closed. Now start the machine thread bolts into the captive nuts on the door. Loosely tighten all four bolts and shift the latch/striker assembly until you are happy with its location. Now you can put in the wood screws. Go around one more time and cinch all the screws up tight. Of course, the wood must be solid to give you that nice "click" as pin snaps into the hole in the striker.....but that can be another project that hopefully was done before this step. Pete pthelander at earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Lawrie Alexander > To: ; > Date: 10/21/2009 9:39:02 AM > Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] door safety latch > > Don, > > There is absolutely no need for any safety latch if the door is made to fit > and close properly! If the hinges are tight, the door fits the opening > properly and the body is solid, there will be minimal flex which would cause > the door to want to come open. So, all you have to do is properly mount the > striker so that the "pin" of the latch on the door fully enters the hole in > the striker wedge when the door is closed. > > The usual problem is that people assume the door latch pin is supposed to > engage the notch on the wedge, and that the hole is there just for > decoration (or to lighten the striker?!). In fact, the notch is the > factory's "safety" and the hole is for the latch pin. When that hole is > properly aligned (by carefully fitting the striker assembly to the A-pillar) > the pin goes in so far that there's no bump on earth that would cause the > door to fly open. > > Cheers, > > Lawrie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:45 AM > Subject: [Mg-mmm] door safety latch > > > > Gents, > > I have a friend who owns an MGT-D with a "flying" door. He's trying to > > restore and is resisting using any standard "gate latch" hardware for > > something more period correct. > > > > Anyone have a source for a set of safety latches? I'll be helping him > > replace the broken hinge, refit the latch... and repair body damage > > incurred. > > Luckily, no one left the car at speed, but he did get quite and ear full > > from wifey! > > > > Don B. > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Mg-mmm at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm > > > > You are subscribed as lawrie at britcars.com > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-mmm at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm > > You are subscribed as pthelander at earthlink.net > > http://www.team.net/archive From DB35PA at aol.com Fri Oct 23 07:07:34 2009 From: DB35PA at aol.com (DB35PA at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:07:34 EDT Subject: [Mg-mmm] Door saftey latch -thank you Message-ID: Thanks to all for the wide variety of solutions to the "flying door" issue with friend's TD. We received everything from "nail it shut and climb over" to very detailed guidance in re-hanging the door and latch assemblies. Thanks to all again, Don B. From lawrie at britcars.com Tue Oct 27 10:08:27 2009 From: lawrie at britcars.com (Lawrie Alexander) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:08:27 -0700 Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Message-ID: <61C3997535E54594B383BE25F43F1AB1@shop> Hi, Folks, My rebuild of PA engine # 1038A/135P continues, following the disappointing failure after 118 miles when the core plug on the top of the head decided to pop out. I'm glad I decided to tear the engine completely apart rather than just draining the oil several times as numerous problems were revealed, largely due to, shall we say, less-than-exemplary work by the English specialist rebuilder. While I had the head on the bench this morning, I noticed that the spark plug hole threads are quite long. The engine had been fitted with 1/2" reach plugs which, I noted, put the spark gap barely inside the combustion chamber. I tried a 3/4" plug and it appears to put the gap closer to where the incoming mixture leaves the intake valve. My Blower's manual references a KLG LK1 plug as being the one the factory fitted but I have no reference books which tell whether this was a 1/2" or 3/4" plug. While the car ran reasonably well with the 1/2" plugs, I am wondering if there is anything to be gained by fitting 3/4" plugs. Any comments from our P-type owners who may have tried both? TIA, Lawrie From p.green at mgk3.co.uk Tue Oct 27 10:22:48 2009 From: p.green at mgk3.co.uk (Peter Green) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:22:48 -0000 Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs References: <61C3997535E54594B383BE25F43F1AB1@shop> Message-ID: <8C5CD094979342569D591B8B74E63F80@magnette> Lawrie, The original plugs were 1/2" reach. Peter. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrie Alexander To: MMM Group Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:08 PM Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Hi, Folks, My rebuild of PA engine # 1038A/135P continues, following the disappointing failure after 118 miles when the core plug on the top of the head decided to pop out. I'm glad I decided to tear the engine completely apart rather than just draining the oil several times as numerous problems were revealed, largely due to, shall we say, less-than-exemplary work by the English specialist rebuilder. While I had the head on the bench this morning, I noticed that the spark plug hole threads are quite long. The engine had been fitted with 1/2" reach plugs which, I noted, put the spark gap barely inside the combustion chamber. I tried a 3/4" plug and it appears to put the gap closer to where the incoming mixture leaves the intake valve. My Blower's manual references a KLG LK1 plug as being the one the factory fitted but I have no reference books which tell whether this was a 1/2" or 3/4" plug. While the car ran reasonably well with the 1/2" plugs, I am wondering if there is anything to be gained by fitting 3/4" plugs. Any comments from our P-type owners who may have tried both? TIA, Lawrie _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mg-mmm at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm You are subscribed as p.green at mgk3.co.uk http://www.team.net/archive From bispmotala at hotmail.com Tue Oct 27 13:39:20 2009 From: bispmotala at hotmail.com (bispmotala) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:39:20 +0100 Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs In-Reply-To: <61C3997535E54594B383BE25F43F1AB1@shop> References: <61C3997535E54594B383BE25F43F1AB1@shop> Message-ID: Hi Lawrie Original plug reach was 3/8" but most people run 1/2 " reach nowadays. I think that 3/4" reach plugs would need careful monitoring to ascertain that there is sufficient clearance to pistons. Also the thread will probably be exposed in the combustion chamber which might give problems with removal at a later date due to carbon build up. Good luck Sven Sweden L types. -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net] Fvr Lawrie Alexander Skickat: den 27 oktober 2009 18:08 Till: MMM Group Dmne: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Hi, Folks, My rebuild of PA engine # 1038A/135P continues, following the disappointing failure after 118 miles when the core plug on the top of the head decided to pop out. I'm glad I decided to tear the engine completely apart rather than just draining the oil several times as numerous problems were revealed, largely due to, shall we say, less-than-exemplary work by the English specialist rebuilder. While I had the head on the bench this morning, I noticed that the spark plug hole threads are quite long. The engine had been fitted with 1/2" reach plugs which, I noted, put the spark gap barely inside the combustion chamber. I tried a 3/4" plug and it appears to put the gap closer to where the incoming mixture leaves the intake valve. My Blower's manual references a KLG LK1 plug as being the one the factory fitted but I have no reference books which tell whether this was a 1/2" or 3/4" plug. While the car ran reasonably well with the 1/2" plugs, I am wondering if there is anything to be gained by fitting 3/4" plugs. Any comments from our P-type owners who may have tried both? TIA, Lawrie Mg-mmm at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm You are subscribed as bispmotala at hotmail.com http://www.team.net/archive From lawrie at britcars.com Tue Oct 27 16:00:49 2009 From: lawrie at britcars.com (Lawrie Alexander) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:00:49 -0700 Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs References: <61C3997535E54594B383BE25F43F1AB1@shop> Message-ID: <3AC5C06BFBDC4E67ACB1821CAC3C2586@shop> Hi, Sven, Thanks for your reply to my question. Peter Green in England confirmed that the plugs were originally 1/2", so that question is settled. The position of the "plug hole" in the combustion chamber is sufficiently high that there's no way it could interfere with the piston, even if the plug were twice as long, so that's not a concern (but thank you for mentioning it). Your point about carbon on the threads is a good one but, again, the threads in the head are so long that the threads of a 3/4" plug would still be fully contained and not exposed to the combustion process. I still think a 3/4' plug might well give more efficient burning of the mixture but one has to wonder why the factory specified 1/2". Perhaps it had something to do with the less volatile petrol available in the thirties having a slower flame front? If no-one else has tried longer plugs, maybe I should try both sizes and see if there's a noticeable difference......... Cheers, Lawrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "bispmotala" To: "'Lawrie Alexander'" ; "'MMM Group'" Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:39 PM Subject: SV: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Hi Lawrie Original plug reach was 3/8" but most people run 1/2 " reach nowadays. I think that 3/4" reach plugs would need careful monitoring to ascertain that there is sufficient clearance to pistons. Also the thread will probably be exposed in the combustion chamber which might give problems with removal at a later date due to carbon build up. Good luck Sven Sweden L types. -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net] Fvr Lawrie Alexander Skickat: den 27 oktober 2009 18:08 Till: MMM Group Dmne: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Hi, Folks, My rebuild of PA engine # 1038A/135P continues, following the disappointing failure after 118 miles when the core plug on the top of the head decided to pop out. I'm glad I decided to tear the engine completely apart rather than just draining the oil several times as numerous problems were revealed, largely due to, shall we say, less-than-exemplary work by the English specialist rebuilder. While I had the head on the bench this morning, I noticed that the spark plug hole threads are quite long. The engine had been fitted with 1/2" reach plugs which, I noted, put the spark gap barely inside the combustion chamber. I tried a 3/4" plug and it appears to put the gap closer to where the incoming mixture leaves the intake valve. My Blower's manual references a KLG LK1 plug as being the one the factory fitted but I have no reference books which tell whether this was a 1/2" or 3/4" plug. While the car ran reasonably well with the 1/2" plugs, I am wondering if there is anything to be gained by fitting 3/4" plugs. Any comments from our P-type owners who may have tried both? TIA, Lawrie Mg-mmm at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm You are subscribed as bispmotala at hotmail.com http://www.team.net/archive From TATERRY at aol.com Tue Oct 27 16:23:34 2009 From: TATERRY at aol.com (TATERRY at aol.com) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:23:34 EDT Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Message-ID: Lawrie, I am using NGK BP5HS plugs in the NA....seem to work well but not so much time or mileage yet....these are 1/2" reach with an extended nose....recommended by Bob Bazzica for use in all my cars, TA, TF, Arnolt and NA..... What are others using? Terry From lawrie at britcars.com Tue Oct 27 16:52:28 2009 From: lawrie at britcars.com (Lawrie Alexander) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:52:28 -0700 Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs References: Message-ID: Terry, I was using BP5HS too. The protruding tip does enable the spark to take place just barely inside the chamber; a regular 1/2" plug has the gap virtually at the combustion chamber wall. My reasoning for a 3/4" plug with a protruding tip is that this would put the spark well into the area where the mixture comes out from the valve throat, rather than tucked back against the wall. However, not being an expert on flame fronts and so forth, maybe I'm completely wrong! That's the reason for this thread on the list ..... Cheers, Lawrie ----- Original Message ----- From: TATERRY at aol.com To: lawrie at britcars.com ; mg-mmm at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Lawrie, I am using NGK BP5HS plugs in the NA....seem to work well but not so much time or mileage yet....these are 1/2" reach with an extended nose....recommended by Bob Bazzica for use in all my cars, TA, TF, Arnolt and NA..... What are others using? Terry From TATERRY at aol.com Tue Oct 27 17:05:26 2009 From: TATERRY at aol.com (TATERRY at aol.com) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:05:26 EDT Subject: [Mg-mmm] From Andrew Fock on the sparking plug issue Message-ID: Hi Terry, I have used Champion L87Ys for some years in the NA with good results... However the engine is old and I do run a hotter plug in one cylinder that used to oil a bit. The exact heat is a matter for trial and error and it took me a year or so of mucking around with different heats before I was happy. If you think this will be of interest to the list please pass it on.... it seems to bounce when I try to post! Andrew NA 0279 PA 1294 From pthelander at earthlink.net Tue Oct 27 17:10:42 2009 From: pthelander at earthlink.net (Pete Thelander) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:10:42 -0700 Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Message-ID: <410-22009103280104293@earthlink.net> Lawrie, Terry et al, I have been using the NGK BP6HS for the past ten years in the NE. The 1/2" reach plugs are a bit short, but that is why I run the extended tips. So far as Terry using 5s and my using 6 or 7s, The compression ratio is up to the original spec at 9.8:1. I don't think Terry is near that high, so the 5s might be more appropriate for his car. Pete pthelander at earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: > To: ; > Date: 10/27/2009 4:23:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs > > Lawrie, I am using NGK BP5HS plugs in the NA....seem to work well but not > so much time or mileage yet....these are 1/2" reach with an extended > nose....recommended by Bob Bazzica for use in all my cars, TA, TF, Arnolt and NA..... > What are others using? > Terry > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-mmm at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm > > You are subscribed as pthelander at earthlink.net > > http://www.team.net/archive From hiro at octagongarage.com Tue Oct 27 21:14:46 2009 From: hiro at octagongarage.com (Hiro Nishio) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:14:46 +0900 Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs In-Reply-To: <410-22009103280104293@earthlink.net> References: <410-22009103280104293@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002801ca5785$2faf87a0$8f0e96e0$@com> Lawrie, Terry, Pete, and all, First of all, there are usually two reach lengths available, longer one is 3/4"(19mm) and shorter one is 1/2"(12.7mm). In case of NGK, "BP" means longer one, and "B" means shorter one. 3/8" (9.5mm) is hardly used in my case. And there are two kind of tips, extended one (ES) and normal (HS). Hence BP6ES has 3/4"(19mm) reach and extended nose. B6HS has 1/2"(12.7mm) reach and normal tip. Theoretically I think the long reach + extended nose plug would ignite well inside the combustion chamber, but after trying many kinds of plugs including iridium to M/J/P/F/K/L/Ns, the actual result was vary, some car was good with BP6ES, but some was good with B6HS. Recently I rebuilt an F Magna engine (it had 14mm thread instead of original 18mm - someone in the past modified) and I thought BP+ES should be good by exactly the same thought as Lawrie. Then fitted BP6ES first, not satisfied. Then changed to BP6HS, which I usually use for any normal MMMs, better but not perfect, then finally B6HS, very good. No misfire occurred at all finally. Lawrie, spark plugs are cheap, so try many and find the best one - it is one of the fun given to us to play with old MGs. But do not use iridium plugs! That's expensive but no good for MMMs, unless rather lean mixture setting. Good luck, Hiro -----Original Message----- From: mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Pete Thelander Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:11 AM To: TATERRY at aol.com; lawrie at britcars.com; mg-mmm at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Lawrie, Terry et al, I have been using the NGK BP6HS for the past ten years in the NE. The 1/2" reach plugs are a bit short, but that is why I run the extended tips. So far as Terry using 5s and my using 6 or 7s, The compression ratio is up to the original spec at 9.8:1. I don't think Terry is near that high, so the 5s might be more appropriate for his car. Pete pthelander at earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: > To: ; > Date: 10/27/2009 4:23:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs > > Lawrie, I am using NGK BP5HS plugs in the NA....seem to work well but not > so much time or mileage yet....these are 1/2" reach with an extended > nose....recommended by Bob Bazzica for use in all my cars, TA, TF, Arnolt and NA..... > What are others using? > Terry > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-mmm at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm > > You are subscribed as pthelander at earthlink.net > > http://www.team.net/archive Mg-mmm at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm You are subscribed as hiro at octagongarage.com http://www.team.net/archive From pthelander at earthlink.net Tue Oct 27 23:05:58 2009 From: pthelander at earthlink.net (Pete Thelander) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:05:58 -0700 Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Message-ID: <410-22009103286558609@earthlink.net> Hiro, You have the NGK designations almost correct. My NGK catalog gives the following breakdown of the letters. In the plugs under discussion - BP6HS : the first letter designates thread diameter. B = 14mm Second letter indicates the type of construction. One or more may be combined. P indicates a projected insulator type. A standard plug construction would have no second letter. Next comes the heat range from 2 for hot to 12 for cold. H indicates the shorter 1/2" thread length - E would indicate the 3/4" longer thread length. S indicates a standard 2.5mm diameter center electrode I hope this will get everyone straightened out and on the same page when talking NGK plugs. There are many more choices in each category, but they are not applicable to our MMM engines. Pete pthelander at earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Hiro Nishio > To: ; ; ; > Date: 10/28/2009 3:14:55 PM > Subject: RE: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs > > Lawrie, Terry, Pete, and all, > > First of all, there are usually two reach lengths available, longer one is > 3/4"(19mm) and shorter > one is 1/2"(12.7mm). In case of NGK, "BP" means longer one, and "B" means > shorter one. > 3/8" (9.5mm) is hardly used in my case. > And there are two kind of tips, extended one (ES) and normal (HS). > Hence BP6ES has 3/4"(19mm) reach and extended nose. B6HS has 1/2"(12.7mm) > reach and normal tip. > > Theoretically I think the long reach + extended nose plug would ignite well > inside the combustion chamber, > but after trying many kinds of plugs including iridium to M/J/P/F/K/L/Ns, > the actual result was vary, > some car was good with BP6ES, but some was good with B6HS. > > Recently I rebuilt an F Magna engine (it had 14mm thread instead of original > 18mm - someone in the past > modified) and I thought BP+ES should be good by exactly the same thought as > Lawrie. > Then fitted BP6ES first, not satisfied. Then changed to BP6HS, which I > usually use for any normal MMMs, > better but not perfect, then finally B6HS, very good. No misfire occurred at > all finally. > > Lawrie, spark plugs are cheap, so try many and find the best one - it is one > of the fun given to us > to play with old MGs. > > But do not use iridium plugs! That's expensive but no good for MMMs, unless > rather lean mixture setting. > > Good luck, > Hiro > > -----Original Message----- > From: mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Pete Thelander > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:11 AM > To: TATERRY at aol.com; lawrie at britcars.com; mg-mmm at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs > > Lawrie, Terry et al, > > I have been using the NGK BP6HS for the past ten years in the NE. The 1/2" > reach plugs are a bit short, but that is why I run the extended tips. So > far as Terry using 5s and my using 6 or 7s, The compression ratio is up to > the original spec at 9.8:1. I don't think Terry is near that high, so the > 5s might be more appropriate for his car. > > Pete > pthelander at earthlink.net > > > > > [Original Message] > > From: > > To: ; > > Date: 10/27/2009 4:23:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs > > > > Lawrie, I am using NGK BP5HS plugs in the NA....seem to work well but not > > so much time or mileage yet....these are 1/2" reach with an extended > > nose....recommended by Bob Bazzica for use in all my cars, TA, TF, Arnolt > and NA..... > > What are others using? > > Terry > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Mg-mmm at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm > > > > You are subscribed as pthelander at earthlink.net > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-mmm at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm > > You are subscribed as hiro at octagongarage.com > > http://www.team.net/archive From hiro at octagongarage.com Tue Oct 27 23:28:24 2009 From: hiro at octagongarage.com (Hiro Nishio) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:28:24 +0900 Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs In-Reply-To: <410-22009103286558609@earthlink.net> References: <410-22009103286558609@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003001ca5797$db2629b0$91727d10$@com> Hi Pete, You are correct. I just short cut the explanation. There is Japanese explanation here at the web, maybe somewhere in English? http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/products/sparkplugs/basic/03_01.html I have a very good friend working for NGK and one day he gave me a good instruction. "Never use wire brush to remove soot. Better way is to use torch to burn soot, or to use sand blast to clean" After that I always carry several sets of spare plugs, soot cleaned by acetylene torch, but no wire brush in my tool roll!! Hope it helps. Cheers, Hiro -----Original Message----- From: Pete Thelander [mailto:pthelander at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:06 PM To: Hiro Nishio; TATERRY at aol.com; lawrie at britcars.com; mg-mmm at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs Hiro, You have the NGK designations almost correct. My NGK catalog gives the following breakdown of the letters. In the plugs under discussion - BP6HS : the first letter designates thread diameter. B = 14mm Second letter indicates the type of construction. One or more may be combined. P indicates a projected insulator type. A standard plug construction would have no second letter. Next comes the heat range from 2 for hot to 12 for cold. H indicates the shorter 1/2" thread length - E would indicate the 3/4" longer thread length. S indicates a standard 2.5mm diameter center electrode I hope this will get everyone straightened out and on the same page when talking NGK plugs. There are many more choices in each category, but they are not applicable to our MMM engines. Pete pthelander at earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Hiro Nishio > To: ; ; ; > Date: 10/28/2009 3:14:55 PM > Subject: RE: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs > > Lawrie, Terry, Pete, and all, > > First of all, there are usually two reach lengths available, longer one is > 3/4"(19mm) and shorter > one is 1/2"(12.7mm). In case of NGK, "BP" means longer one, and "B" means > shorter one. > 3/8" (9.5mm) is hardly used in my case. > And there are two kind of tips, extended one (ES) and normal (HS). > Hence BP6ES has 3/4"(19mm) reach and extended nose. B6HS has 1/2"(12.7mm) > reach and normal tip. > > Theoretically I think the long reach + extended nose plug would ignite well > inside the combustion chamber, > but after trying many kinds of plugs including iridium to M/J/P/F/K/L/Ns, > the actual result was vary, > some car was good with BP6ES, but some was good with B6HS. > > Recently I rebuilt an F Magna engine (it had 14mm thread instead of original > 18mm - someone in the past > modified) and I thought BP+ES should be good by exactly the same thought as > Lawrie. > Then fitted BP6ES first, not satisfied. Then changed to BP6HS, which I > usually use for any normal MMMs, > better but not perfect, then finally B6HS, very good. No misfire occurred at > all finally. > > Lawrie, spark plugs are cheap, so try many and find the best one - it is one > of the fun given to us > to play with old MGs. > > But do not use iridium plugs! That's expensive but no good for MMMs, unless > rather lean mixture setting. > > Good luck, > Hiro > > -----Original Message----- > From: mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Pete Thelander > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:11 AM > To: TATERRY at aol.com; lawrie at britcars.com; mg-mmm at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs > > Lawrie, Terry et al, > > I have been using the NGK BP6HS for the past ten years in the NE. The 1/2" > reach plugs are a bit short, but that is why I run the extended tips. So > far as Terry using 5s and my using 6 or 7s, The compression ratio is up to > the original spec at 9.8:1. I don't think Terry is near that high, so the > 5s might be more appropriate for his car. > > Pete > pthelander at earthlink.net > > > > > [Original Message] > > From: > > To: ; > > Date: 10/27/2009 4:23:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs > > > > Lawrie, I am using NGK BP5HS plugs in the NA....seem to work well but not > > so much time or mileage yet....these are 1/2" reach with an extended > > nose....recommended by Bob Bazzica for use in all my cars, TA, TF, Arnolt > and NA..... > > What are others using? > > Terry > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Mg-mmm at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm > > > > You are subscribed as pthelander at earthlink.net > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-mmm at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm > > You are subscribed as hiro at octagongarage.com > > http://www.team.net/archive From lawrie at britcars.com Wed Oct 28 06:17:42 2009 From: lawrie at britcars.com (Lawrie Alexander) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 06:17:42 -0700 Subject: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs References: <410-22009103280104293@earthlink.net> <002801ca5785$2faf87a0$8f0e96e0$@com> Message-ID: Hiro, Thank you for telling us that you tried three different styles of plug, each of which took the spark further out of the combustion chamber. The results of your test were exactly opposite to what I would have expected! That is why I raised the question in the first place, to see if anyone had any experience with the longer, projected tip plugs. Obviously, there is something at work here which I don't understand. However, I like your comment that plugs are cheap and that experimentation is part of the fun of owning old MGs. Once the engine is back in the car, I shall try a set of BP6ES to see if they make a noticeable difference from the B6HS. I shall report my findings in due course. For now, thanks to all who offered comments on this subject. Lawrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hiro Nishio" To: ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:14 PM Subject: RE: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs > Lawrie, Terry, Pete, and all, > > First of all, there are usually two reach lengths available, longer one is > 3/4"(19mm) and shorter > one is 1/2"(12.7mm). In case of NGK, "BP" means longer one, and "B" means > shorter one. > 3/8" (9.5mm) is hardly used in my case. > And there are two kind of tips, extended one (ES) and normal (HS). > Hence BP6ES has 3/4"(19mm) reach and extended nose. B6HS has 1/2"(12.7mm) > reach and normal tip. > > Theoretically I think the long reach + extended nose plug would ignite > well > inside the combustion chamber, > but after trying many kinds of plugs including iridium to M/J/P/F/K/L/Ns, > the actual result was vary, > some car was good with BP6ES, but some was good with B6HS. > > Recently I rebuilt an F Magna engine (it had 14mm thread instead of > original > 18mm - someone in the past > modified) and I thought BP+ES should be good by exactly the same thought > as > Lawrie. > Then fitted BP6ES first, not satisfied. Then changed to BP6HS, which I > usually use for any normal MMMs, > better but not perfect, then finally B6HS, very good. No misfire occurred > at > all finally. > > Lawrie, spark plugs are cheap, so try many and find the best one - it is > one > of the fun given to us > to play with old MGs. > > But do not use iridium plugs! That's expensive but no good for MMMs, > unless > rather lean mixture setting. > > Good luck, > Hiro > > -----Original Message----- > From: mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Pete Thelander > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:11 AM > To: TATERRY at aol.com; lawrie at britcars.com; mg-mmm at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs > > Lawrie, Terry et al, > > I have been using the NGK BP6HS for the past ten years in the NE. The > 1/2" > reach plugs are a bit short, but that is why I run the extended tips. So > far as Terry using 5s and my using 6 or 7s, The compression ratio is up > to > the original spec at 9.8:1. I don't think Terry is near that high, so the > 5s might be more appropriate for his car. > > Pete > pthelander at earthlink.net > > > >> [Original Message] >> From: >> To: ; >> Date: 10/27/2009 4:23:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [Mg-mmm] MG PA spark plugs >> >> Lawrie, I am using NGK BP5HS plugs in the NA....seem to work well but not >> so much time or mileage yet....these are 1/2" reach with an extended >> nose....recommended by Bob Bazzica for use in all my cars, TA, TF, Arnolt > and NA..... >> What are others using? >> Terry >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Mg-mmm at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm >> >> You are subscribed as pthelander at earthlink.net >> >> http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mg-mmm at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm > > You are subscribed as hiro at octagongarage.com > > http://www.team.net/archive From coles at colesnurseries.com Thu Oct 29 18:08:27 2009 From: coles at colesnurseries.com (Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc)) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:08:27 -0400 Subject: [Mg-mmm] shipping of bits Message-ID: I am looking at some MMM bits on the west coast to be shipped to the east coast. These would include some larger items like a frame as well as smaller items. I have shipped cars before but has anyone had bits shipped that required the shipper to packae them up. If so, can anyone recommend a company to do this ? Thanks, Dan From zwart1 at cox.net Thu Oct 29 22:59:41 2009 From: zwart1 at cox.net (Robert Zwart) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:59:41 -0700 Subject: [Mg-mmm] Vintage Restorations Message-ID: <6CD71352-7E67-4DD0-A5D3-5F724023C3C6@cox.net> I was one of the happy recipients of restored instruments from John. It started with MGTD and TC instruments and finally with my M Type restorations. Much of the work depended on his memory and the lack of detailed design data. When I got back my instruments, I could just install them, knowing they were going to work. Thanks to John and his staff of one or two or maybe a platoon; they kept our cars running and looking perfect. I hope he gets to enjoy his retirement. There will be desperate diehards out there who will NEED his expertise and not willing to let THEIR gauges be touched by anyone else...... GOOD LUCK Have fun, John. Travel and think 'relaxing'. If you are ever here in USA and California you can stay with us while you enjoy the usual nice weather and our many things to see and do. Bob and Margie Zwart, Vintage MG Club of Southern California [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Dscf0082_075.jpg] From zwart1 at cox.net Thu Oct 29 23:53:05 2009 From: zwart1 at cox.net (Robert Zwart) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:53:05 -0700 Subject: [Mg-mmm] Vintage Restorations Message-ID: <2BE80601-B5AC-4FD9-B583-D34F1B94AB0D@cox.net> I was one of the happy recipients of restored instruments from John. It started with MGTD and TC instruments and finally with my M Type restorations. Much of the work depended on his memory and the lack of detailed design data. When I got back my instruments, I could just install them, knowing they were going to work. Thanks to John and his staff of one or two or maybe a platoon; they kept our cars running and looking perfect. I hope he gets to enjoy his retirement. There will be desperate diehards out there who will NEED his expertise and not willing to let THEIR gauges be touched by anyone else...... GOOD LUCK Have fun, John. Travel and think 'relaxing'. If you are ever here in USA and California you can stay with us while you enjoy the usual nice weather and our many things to see and do. Bob and Margie Zwart, Vintage MG Club of Southern California [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Dscf0082_075.jpg] Mg-mmm at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm You are subscribed as zwart1 at cox.net http://www.team.net/archive From grunau.garage at sympatico.ca Fri Oct 30 03:45:58 2009 From: grunau.garage at sympatico.ca (GRUNAU, ROBT) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:45:58 -0400 Subject: [Mg-mmm] shipping of bits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Dan, Several years ago I had the same problem when trying to buy a couple TA engines and gearboxes and assorted parts from LA, CA. The sellor said local pickup only and refused to assist in packing the parts up ( not that I blame him ). So I asked my long suffering wife if she want to go to LA for a "holiday" in our old Ford F-150 truck. She said sure. So as the Beverley Hillbilly song goes, we loaded up the truck and headed west to California. Turned out to be a good trip, visited several TC and MMM owners, saw the Grand Canyon, Al Moss, several other interesting sights, but best of all bought a whole truck load of interesting TA Tickford and J2 parts in addition to the TA engines. All in all, a very good trip.. So you might consider driving out. Good luck and good hunting, Bob Grunau -----Original Message----- From: mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mg-mmm-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc) Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:08 PM To: mg-mmm at autox.team.net Subject: [Mg-mmm] shipping of bits I am looking at some MMM bits on the west coast to be shipped to the east coast. These would include some larger items like a frame as well as smaller items. I have shipped cars before but has anyone had bits shipped that required the shipper to packae them up. If so, can anyone recommend a company to do this ? Thanks, Dan Mg-mmm at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm You are subscribed as grunau.garage at sympatico.ca http://www.team.net/archive From mgtom at zoominternet.net Fri Oct 30 19:44:04 2009 From: mgtom at zoominternet.net (mgtom at zoominternet.net) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:44:04 -0400 Subject: [Mg-mmm] shipping of bits Message-ID: <2859.1256957044@zoominternet.net> Dan, I used Schenker Logistics when I shipped a disassembled car from CA a few years ago. The cost was very reasonable. I'm at the HHI Concours right now but I can get you the details next week. tommm On Thu 10/29/09 9:08 PM , "Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc)" coles at colesnurseries.com sent: I am looking at some MMM bits on the west coast to be shipped to the east coast. These would include some larger items like a frame as well as smaller items. I have shipped cars before but has anyone had bits shipped that required the shipper to packae them up. If so, can anyone recommend a company to do this ? Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html [1] http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mg-mmm [3] You are subscribed as http://www.team.net/archive [5] Links: ------ [1] http://webmail2.agoc.com/parse.php?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.team.net%2Fdonat e.html [3] http://webmail2.agoc.com/parse.php?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fautox.team.net%2Fmai lman%2Flistinfo%2Fmg-mmm [5] http://webmail2.agoc.com/parse.php?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.team.net%2Farchi ve