[Land-speed] Dry Sump Tank Questions...

[Neil Albaugh]

Mayf;

May answers in blue below--

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Mayfield
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 9:25 AM
To: LSR ; monte
Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump Tank Questions...

I am considering the use of a dry sump system. Why? Well, the aspect of
fire caught my attention.  Ventilating the pan with a lot of oil at full
boogie makes a big mess and even bigger fire if it gets ablaze.  So, a
smaller blaze with a small oil pan for oil collection only.

If there is a link to something that can provide me with an education on
the kinds of questions below, I sure would appreciate it! I suspect
others would like it also!

Just put your comments after the questions for me?

  I see there are at least two different types of tanks: round and
square. Seems to me that a square or rectangular tank provides for more
oil than a round one of the same basic dimension, however, there appears
that there are more round ones than rectangular. Any idea as to why?
Seems like a flat sided one would be easier to locate and mount.

Sometimes rectangular tanks are convenient to mount but the round ones are
more efficient in de-aerating the oil.

Notice that good tanks like Peterson or Patterson return the oil tangentially
to the round tank wall. This swirls the oil around on the inside wall of the
tank. The shearing of the oil going around the wall allows the air bubbles to
break and the trapped air is vented.


I have seen some in catalogs with removable tops or panels, both round
and square and I guess that would be for removable of debris; but seems
to me that if debris is present in the tank then the pump is probably
toast.  So, why would a LSR team need a cleanable tank like that?  Looks
like another place to leak.

There is eventually a buildup of fine stuff like carbon particles that you
donbt want to mix with new, clean oil, so the tank must be taken apart to
clean it. The pressure inside the tank is minimal so an o-ring seals it
effectively. There are internal baffles and discs that prevent oil sloshing
under high-G loads and the additional surface area of the discs helps
de-aerate the oil.


Now, does the shape of the tank have anything to do with deareating the
oil returned from  the engine sump? Is round better for getting rid of
air in the oil? Why would that be?  Does the tank need a vent? Other
than the cap? I would guess so since air can be trapped in the oil as it
goes though the engine and it needs a place to escape.  However, if a
crankcase vacuum system is used though, would the vent be required?
Maybe a vent connected to the engine internally with a hose so that air
pressure is balanced everywhere?

I have no experience with crankcase vacuum systems so Ibll not comment.

The oil tank does need to be vented to the air. It needs a collection tank for
condensed oil vapor and a filtered breather.


Should the tank be located below the pump to prevent siphoning or
draining back into the engine pan when the engine is off?


For LSR type activities, are multi stage scavenge systems needed?  I
have see some with pick ups in the lifter valley, the valve covers, and
the pan in two or more places.   Are pumps driven at engine speed? Or
under/over driven?


Finally, pressure regulators.  Since oil is incompressible, then the
pressure regulator is also a flow regulator as well.  I have an external
NASCAR regulator on my parts shelf, but where to actually put it in the
system? Seems to me that putting it just after the pump is draining flow
from the engine. The "extra" oil being dumped could be put directly into
the pan where the scavenge system would return it to the tank or
actually plumbed to the tank directly: that seems better, but, is it?
What if the OP regulator is at  the last place to get oil? Wouldn't that
be an ideal place because that way oil is delivered at full flow and
pressure to those places that absolutely must have both flow and
pressure: main bearings and rod bearings.

Ibd put the pressure regulator after the pump and plumb the relief oil back
to the tank.

Standing by for any and all replies, no matter what they might be! I get
a lot of "you dumb f**k" so even those are ok.

Heybnobody knows everything. We all keep learning if we are wise.

larry

aka dipstick, dumb shit, idiot, no brains etc...

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--
______________________________
drmayf
Worlds Fastest Sunbeam, period.
204.913 mph flying mile
210.779 mph exit speed
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