From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat May  1 19:00:16 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 18:00:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
Message-ID: <4BDCCEA0.9050509@mayfco.com>

Seems like the list is very quiet. So lemme ask a question of some 
relevance to me.  What is the best electronic fuel injector o-ring 
lubricant during for use during assembly to the bungs and fuel rails? 
Vasoline? White lithium grease? Axle grease? Motor oil? Bear snot? KY 
jelly?    And then how often should one replace those suckers? 

mayf

From fosterap at flash.net  Sat May  1 20:31:22 2010
From: fosterap at flash.net (Jerry Foster)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 21:31:22 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <4BDCCEA0.9050509@mayfco.com>
References: <4BDCCEA0.9050509@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <6DA3B40B6F464777A05E1CA2ABD18667@blackhp>

Mayf..........I  have found the elusive O-ring lubricant.  It's available at 
any swimming pool supply place.  Comes in a tube, and it really works.  My 
air hose reel used to spring a leak all the time, until I put some of this 
stuff on the o-ring.....no problems since then.  Very, very sticky.....hard 
to get wiped off your hands.  Try it...you'll like it.  I don't know that 
you would ever have to replace the properly maintained o-ring.  Jerry in 
Dallas


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:00 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...


> Seems like the list is very quiet. So lemme ask a question of some 
> relevance to me.  What is the best electronic fuel injector o-ring 
> lubricant during for use during assembly to the bungs and fuel rails? 
> Vasoline? White lithium grease? Axle grease? Motor oil? Bear snot? KY 
> jelly?    And then how often should one replace those suckers?
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/fosterap at flash.net 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat May  1 21:26:17 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 20:26:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <6DA3B40B6F464777A05E1CA2ABD18667@blackhp>
References: <4BDCCEA0.9050509@mayfco.com>
	<6DA3B40B6F464777A05E1CA2ABD18667@blackhp>
Message-ID: <4BDCF0D9.9070703@mayfco.com>

Yeah, so ok, does this gorilla snot have a name?  Ugghhh, I don't think 
there is a pool supplier in Pahrump, now that I think about it, though...

Pahrump is not the end of the world but it is just a mile or so away...


Thanks for the reply and I will see if I can find some of this stuff...


mayf


Jerry Foster wrote:

> Mayf..........I  have found the elusive O-ring lubricant.  It's 
> available at any swimming pool supply place.  Comes in a tube, and it 
> really works.  My air hose reel used to spring a leak all the time, 
> until I put some of this stuff on the o-ring.....no problems since 
> then.  Very, very sticky.....hard to get wiped off your hands.  Try 
> it...you'll like it.  I don't know that you would ever have to replace 
> the properly maintained o-ring.  Jerry in Dallas
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:00 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>
>
>> Seems like the list is very quiet. So lemme ask a question of some 
>> relevance to me.  What is the best electronic fuel injector o-ring 
>> lubricant during for use during assembly to the bungs and fuel rails? 
>> Vasoline? White lithium grease? Axle grease? Motor oil? Bear snot? KY 
>> jelly?    And then how often should one replace those suckers?
>> mayf
>> _______________________________________________
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/fosterap at flash.net 

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat May  1 22:01:34 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 00:01:34 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
Message-ID: <F114690E476B425D85EBD783AE94152A@john>

Probably silicone grease . That's the stuff we used at work on O rings . 
Tenacious and harmless .



> Yeah, so ok, does this gorilla snot have a name?  Ugghhh, I don't think 
> there is a pool supplier in Pahrump, now that I think about it, though...
>
> Pahrump is not the end of the world but it is just a mile or so away...
>
>
> Thanks for the reply and I will see if I can find some of this stuff...
>
>
> mayf
>
>
> Jerry Foster wrote:
>
>> Mayf..........I  have found the elusive O-ring lubricant.  It's available 
>> at any swimming pool supply place.  Comes in a tube, and it really works. 
>> My air hose reel used to spring a leak all the time, until I put some of 
>> this stuff on the o-ring.....no problems since then.  Very, very 
>> sticky.....hard to get wiped off your hands.  Try it...you'll like it.  I 
>> don't know that you would ever have to replace the properly maintained 
>> o-ring.  Jerry in Dallas
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:00 PM
>> Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>
>>
>>> Seems like the list is very quiet. So lemme ask a question of some 
>>> relevance to me.  What is the best electronic fuel injector o-ring 
>>> lubricant during for use during assembly to the bungs and fuel rails? 
>>> Vasoline? White lithium grease? Axle grease? Motor oil? Bear snot? KY 
>>> jelly?    And then how often should one replace those suckers?
>>> mayf
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/fosterap at flash.net
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net

From mark at bradakis.com  Sat May  1 22:43:55 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 22:43:55 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <4BDCCEA0.9050509@mayfco.com>
References: <4BDCCEA0.9050509@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4BDD030B.2030405@bradakis.com>

Dow Corning high vacuum silicone grease will probably work well.

mjb.

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun May  2 01:14:12 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 03:14:12 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
Message-ID: <8EA91DB1485A4B568C023A7527BF7849@john>

Mayf I can tell you how it works with propane . Put new o-ring seals in the 
ball valve of my hot air balloon . One o-ring was too fat and the propane 
washed  the Dow Corning silicone vacuum grease off when I was 1000 ft over a 
woods . Got so tight I hought the brass shaft break . With a solvent the 
benefit is temporary .


> John, all...how well does any of the silicon stuff work with high octane 
> gasoline? The lower injector o-rings would most likely be ok but the upper 
> fuel rail ones are bathed in fuel all the time.   My o-rings are viton, I 
> forgot to mention, so stuff needs to be compatible with the material also. 
> As to vacuum grease, yeah I have used some of the best, Krytox. 
> Unfortunately I do not have any, lol.
>
> Ya'll have given me some leads, so I   will start looking.
> Thanks,
>
> mayf
>
>
> John Burk wrote:
>
>> Probably silicone grease . That's the stuff we used at work on O rings . 
>> Tenacious and harmless .
>>
>>
>>
>>> Yeah, so ok, does this gorilla snot have a name?  Ugghhh, I don't think 
>>> there is a pool supplier in Pahrump, now that I think about it, 
>>> though...
>>>
>>> Pahrump is not the end of the world but it is just a mile or so away...
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply and I will see if I can find some of this stuff...
>>>
>>>
>>> mayf
>>>
>>>
>>> Jerry Foster wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mayf..........I  have found the elusive O-ring lubricant.  It's 
>>>> available at any swimming pool supply place.  Comes in a tube, and it 
>>>> really works. My air hose reel used to spring a leak all the time, 
>>>> until I put some of this stuff on the o-ring.....no problems since 
>>>> then.  Very, very sticky.....hard to get wiped off your hands.  Try 
>>>> it...you'll like it.  I don't know that you would ever have to replace 
>>>> the properly maintained o-ring.  Jerry in Dallas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>>>> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:00 PM
>>>> Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Seems like the list is very quiet. So lemme ask a question of some 
>>>>> relevance to me.  What is the best electronic fuel injector o-ring 
>>>>> lubricant during for use during assembly to the bungs and fuel rails? 
>>>>> Vasoline? White lithium grease? Axle grease? Motor oil? Bear snot? KY 
>>>>> jelly?    And then how often should one replace those suckers?
>>>>> mayf
>>>>> _______________________________________________

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun May  2 07:18:02 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 06:18:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <8EA91DB1485A4B568C023A7527BF7849@john>
References: <8EA91DB1485A4B568C023A7527BF7849@john>
Message-ID: <4BDD7B8A.8090308@mayfco.com>

Well, that doesn't sound like the happiest of endings! 

mayf
John Burk wrote:

> Mayf I can tell you how it works with propane . Put new o-ring seals 
> in the ball valve of my hot air balloon . One o-ring was too fat and 
> the propane washed  the Dow Corning silicone vacuum grease off when I 
> was 1000 ft over a woods . Got so tight I hought the brass shaft break 
> . With a solvent the benefit is temporary .
>
>
>> John, all...how well does any of the silicon stuff work with high 
>> octane gasoline? The lower injector o-rings would most likely be ok 
>> but the upper fuel rail ones are bathed in fuel all the time.   My 
>> o-rings are viton, I forgot to mention, so stuff needs to be 
>> compatible with the material also. As to vacuum grease, yeah I have 
>> used some of the best, Krytox. Unfortunately I do not have any, lol.
>>
>> Ya'll have given me some leads, so I   will start looking.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> mayf
>>
>>
>> John Burk wrote:
>>
>>> Probably silicone grease . That's the stuff we used at work on O 
>>> rings . Tenacious and harmless .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yeah, so ok, does this gorilla snot have a name?  Ugghhh, I don't 
>>>> think there is a pool supplier in Pahrump, now that I think about 
>>>> it, though...
>>>>
>>>> Pahrump is not the end of the world but it is just a mile or so 
>>>> away...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the reply and I will see if I can find some of this 
>>>> stuff...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> mayf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jerry Foster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mayf..........I  have found the elusive O-ring lubricant.  It's 
>>>>> available at any swimming pool supply place.  Comes in a tube, and 
>>>>> it really works. My air hose reel used to spring a leak all the 
>>>>> time, until I put some of this stuff on the o-ring.....no problems 
>>>>> since then.  Very, very sticky.....hard to get wiped off your 
>>>>> hands.  Try it...you'll like it.  I don't know that you would ever 
>>>>> have to replace the properly maintained o-ring.  Jerry in Dallas
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>>>>> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems like the list is very quiet. So lemme ask a question of 
>>>>>> some relevance to me.  What is the best electronic fuel injector 
>>>>>> o-ring lubricant during for use during assembly to the bungs and 
>>>>>> fuel rails? Vasoline? White lithium grease? Axle grease? Motor 
>>>>>> oil? Bear snot? KY jelly?    And then how often should one 
>>>>>> replace those suckers?
>>>>>> mayf
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun May  2 07:57:39 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 07:57:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <4BDD030B.2030405@bradakis.com>
References: <4BDCCEA0.9050509@mayfco.com>
  <4BDD030B.2030405@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <CEEFC13100EF43988B5B1BDE68103099@GlenPC>

Having spent most of my career in the hydraulics field I totally agree with 
Mark on the Dow Corning silicone grease. You might be able to get it at 
McFadden-Dale in Las Vegas Mayf.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...


> Dow Corning high vacuum silicone grease will probably work well.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sun May  2 09:47:06 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 15:47:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <CEEFC13100EF43988B5B1BDE68103099@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

DC-4 

jack 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com 
To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>, "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2010 6:57:39 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube... 

Having spent most of my career in the hydraulics field I totally agree with 
Mark on the Dow Corning silicone grease. You might be able to get it at 
McFadden-Dale in Las Vegas Mayf. 
Glen 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com> 
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube... 


> Dow Corning high vacuum silicone grease will probably work well. 
> 
> mjb. 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Land-speed at autox.team.net 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive 
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com 
_______________________________________________ 
Land-speed at autox.team.net 
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive 
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums 
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun May  2 10:14:40 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 09:14:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4BDDA4F0.50409@mayfco.com>

So, what is DC-4?   Isn't that an old airplane?

mayf
NT788 at comcast.net wrote:

>DC-4 
>
>jack 
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com 
>To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>, "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net> 
>Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2010 6:57:39 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube... 
>
>Having spent most of my career in the hydraulics field I totally agree with 
>Mark on the Dow Corning silicone grease. You might be able to get it at 
>McFadden-Dale in Las Vegas Mayf. 
>Glen 
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com> 
>To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net> 
>Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:43 PM 
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube... 
>
>
>  
>
>>Dow Corning high vacuum silicone grease will probably work well. 
>>
>>mjb. 
>>_______________________________________________ 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun May  2 10:28:14 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 10:28:14 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <4BDDA4F0.50409@mayfco.com>
References: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<4BDDA4F0.50409@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <78FFFC7B383F42BDA768E961A68E1F7B@GlenPC>

DC-4 is a Dow-Corning silicone used for assembly of about anything rubber 
etc.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: <NT788 at comcast.net>
Cc: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...


> So, what is DC-4?   Isn't that an old airplane?
>
> mayf
> NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>
>>DC-4
>>jack ----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>, 
>>"LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net> Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2010 6:57:39 AM 
>>GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector 
>>O-ring Lube...
>>Having spent most of my career in the hydraulics field I totally agree 
>>with Mark on the Dow Corning silicone grease. You might be able to get it 
>>at McFadden-Dale in Las Vegas Mayf. Glen ----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com> To: "LSR" 
>><land-speed at autox.team.net> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: 
>>Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>
>>
>>>Dow Corning high vacuum silicone grease will probably work well.
>>>mjb. _______________________________________________

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun May  2 10:55:57 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 09:55:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <E88AB8775FB942A28424D203779AE61C@tiger>

I agree, Jack. Good Stuff. We also used it in our missile unit in the Army 
to waterproof electrical connectors.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: <NT788 at comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 8:47 AM
To: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...

> DC-4
>
> jack
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>, "LSR" 
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2010 6:57:39 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>
> Having spent most of my career in the hydraulics field I totally agree 
> with
> Mark on the Dow Corning silicone grease. You might be able to get it at
> McFadden-Dale in Las Vegas Mayf.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>
>
>> Dow Corning high vacuum silicone grease will probably work well.
>>
>> mjb.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/neil at dbelltech.com

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun May  2 10:56:54 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 09:56:54 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <4BDDA4F0.50409@mayfco.com>
References: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<4BDDA4F0.50409@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <0BCB20F1E5D64A8DBAAE0C49F6E5A202@tiger>

Mayf;

It is a silicone grease made by Dow Corning; it comes in a tube.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:14 AM
To: <NT788 at comcast.net>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...

> So, what is DC-4?   Isn't that an old airplane?
>
> mayf
> NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>
>>DC-4
>>jack ----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>, 
>>"LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net> Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2010 6:57:39 AM 
>>GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector 
>>O-ring Lube...
>>Having spent most of my career in the hydraulics field I totally agree 
>>with Mark on the Dow Corning silicone grease. You might be able to get it 
>>at McFadden-Dale in Las Vegas Mayf. Glen ----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com> To: "LSR" 
>><land-speed at autox.team.net> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: 
>>Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>
>>
>>>Dow Corning high vacuum silicone grease will probably work well.
>>>mjb. _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/neil at dbelltech.com

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun May  2 11:14:59 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 10:14:59 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <E88AB8775FB942A28424D203779AE61C@tiger>
References: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<E88AB8775FB942A28424D203779AE61C@tiger>
Message-ID: <4BDDB313.4080301@mayfco.com>

And so it works good in a gasoline environment?  We heard from one who 
used a silicon grease that propane washed it away. Gasoline do the same 
for this stuff?  That was the  question: What's good for EFI o-rings at 
the fuel rail.

mayf
Neil Albaugh wrote:

> I agree, Jack. Good Stuff. We also used it in our missile unit in the 
> Army to waterproof electrical connectors.
>
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <NT788 at comcast.net>
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 8:47 AM
> To: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>
>> DC-4
>>
>> jack
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>> To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>, "LSR" 
>> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2010 6:57:39 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>
>> Having spent most of my career in the hydraulics field I totally 
>> agree with
>> Mark on the Dow Corning silicone grease. You might be able to get it at
>> McFadden-Dale in Las Vegas Mayf.
>> Glen
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
>> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>
>>
>>> Dow Corning high vacuum silicone grease will probably work well.
>>>
>>> mjb.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com 
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/neil at dbelltech.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Sun May  2 11:34:02 2010
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 13:34:02 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
References: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><E88AB8775FB942A28424D203779AE61C@tiger>
	<4BDDB313.4080301@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <001201caea1d$a8cfc3e0$6501a8c0@Rick>

I'll bet the washing away was on a rotating valve.

Once assembled the sealing of the common fuel injector is static unit load, 
rather than dynamic. Even if it is washed away the squeeze has been 
established in a dynamic environment and will suffice.
I have used Dow vacuum grease since my gas turbine days in the early 70's.
OEM's don't use anything exotic to my knowledge. If I remember correctly it 
was just a soapy solution when I worked with Lima engine plant on 2.3L 
intake manif assembly process.
Fuel leaks were VERYVERY LOW incidence. (no warranty)
I use the Dow silicon for assembly on methanol and gasoline injectors.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun May  2 12:20:17 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 11:20:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <001201caea1d$a8cfc3e0$6501a8c0@Rick>
References: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><E88AB8775FB942A28424D203779AE61C@tiger>
	<4BDDB313.4080301@mayfco.com> <001201caea1d$a8cfc3e0$6501a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <4BDDC261.5090405@mayfco.com>

Ok, Rick, you got me...  How would a rotating valve affect washing away 
of the seal lube mon the top side of the fuel injector at the fuel 
rail?   Yes to the static seal. But mine aren't necessarily static.  Or 
at least wont be as much next go around. And that gasoline that ERC 
sells really dries out the seal materials (also hands, lol).   A dish 
soap might be a good lube. I will see how it is affected by the gasoline.

You gonna have you car at B'ville this summer? Looks like we can only 
afford WOS only because of high room rents this year.  I'd like to see 
your car go!

mayf

Rick Byrnes wrote:

> I'll bet the washing away was on a rotating valve.
>
> Once assembled the sealing of the common fuel injector is static unit 
> load, rather than dynamic. Even if it is washed away the squeeze has 
> been established in a dynamic environment and will suffice.
> I have used Dow vacuum grease since my gas turbine days in the early 
> 70's.
> OEM's don't use anything exotic to my knowledge. If I remember 
> correctly it was just a soapy solution when I worked with Lima engine 
> plant on 2.3L intake manif assembly process.
> Fuel leaks were VERYVERY LOW incidence. (no warranty)
> I use the Dow silicon for assembly on methanol and gasoline injectors.

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sun May  2 13:28:55 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 15:28:55 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <E88AB8775FB942A28424D203779AE61C@tiger>
References: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<E88AB8775FB942A28424D203779AE61C@tiger>
Message-ID: <221933138B11458DBBFA0D055E0E9356@Dell4400>

Interesting.
We used Dow corning 111 for the same purpose,  seal, lube and Dielectric too

http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/default.aspx?R=393EN

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 12:55 PM
To: <NT788 at comcast.net>; <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...

> I agree, Jack. Good Stuff. We also used it in our missile unit in the Army 
> to waterproof electrical connectors.
>
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <NT788 at comcast.net>
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 8:47 AM
> To: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>
>> DC-4
>>
>> jack
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>> To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>, "LSR" 
>> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2010 6:57:39 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>
>> Having spent most of my career in the hydraulics field I totally agree 
>> with
>> Mark on the Dow Corning silicone grease. You might be able to get it at
>> McFadden-Dale in Las Vegas Mayf.
>> Glen
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
>> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>
>>
>>> Dow Corning high vacuum silicone grease will probably work well.
>>>
>>> mjb.
>>> _______________________________________________

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sun May  2 13:32:27 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 15:32:27 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
In-Reply-To: <E88AB8775FB942A28424D203779AE61C@tiger>
References: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<E88AB8775FB942A28424D203779AE61C@tiger>
Message-ID: <55850DCFBBE9404484CEDDB39FD81C74@Dell4400>

Heres the specson DC-4

 http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/default.aspx?R=402EN

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 12:55 PM
To: <NT788 at comcast.net>; <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...

> I agree, Jack. Good Stuff. We also used it in our missile unit in the Army 
> to waterproof electrical connectors.
>
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <NT788 at comcast.net>
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 8:47 AM
> To: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>
>> DC-4
>>
>> jack
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>> To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>, "LSR" 
>> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2010 6:57:39 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>
>> Having spent most of my career in the hydraulics field I totally agree 
>> with
>> Mark on the Dow Corning silicone grease. You might be able to get it at
>> McFadden-Dale in Las Vegas Mayf.
>> Glen
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
>> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
>>
>>
>>> Dow Corning high vacuum silicone grease will probably work well.

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Sun May  2 15:29:37 2010
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 17:29:37 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector O-ring Lube...
References: <662867899.24967341272815226435.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><E88AB8775FB942A28424D203779AE61C@tiger>
	<4BDDB313.4080301@mayfco.com> <001201caea1d$a8cfc3e0$6501a8c0@Rick>
	<4BDDC261.5090405@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <001801caea3e$97f1d240$6501a8c0@Rick>

Ok, Rick, you got me...  How would a rotating valve affect washing away of 
the seal lube mon the top side of the fuel injector at the fuel
rail?   Yes to the static seal. But mine aren't necessarily static.  Or
at least wont be as much next go around. And that gasoline that ERC
sells really dries out the seal materials (also hands, lol).   A dish
soap might be a good lube. I will see how it is affected by the gasoline.

I'm not listening.
don't know nothin bout rotating shaft sealing with o rings......

Racing fuel may dry out the joint, but Fluroro elastomers don't have 
problems with gasoline.  I have used viton at all Bosch injectors in gas 
applications with C16 and A8C without leakage problems.  Alchyhaul might be 
a different story.....or how bout nitro?


You gonna have you car at B'ville this summer? Looks like we can only afford 
WOS only because of high room rents this year.  I'd like to see
your car go!

Not this year.  I fired the Ford body design/stylist in Dec.  He really 
boned me.
Found a new guy and he is finally on line with the 3d model and beginning 
work. He is more than happy to work WITH me and the AERO guy.  I'm working 
on the last 20% of the chassis details but sometimes the last part takes the 
longest.  I am having a ball with the design, and building phase, but I need 
to be on the salt with this thing.
Next year.  I'm in agreement.  I have spent so much building, I won't be 
able to afford the big meet.  Sponsors are impossible, especially now with a 
car that isn't quite "real" So WOS and WF will be on my calendar.  I will do 
testing here, and was looking at going to Loring, this year, but I got sick 
late Feb and now am just feeling well enough to get back to work.  Lost 
hearing in one ear that may be permanent, but it sure could be worse.
The chassis may be good for Loring, but without at least the front body, 
running would be senseless.  Especially going 800? miles to do it.  I can 
test almost as good on a Dyna Pac locally.

I will muddle thru, and as I get closer to being done I'll post some details 
and photos. It will look good, I just pray for speed.

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon May  3 00:42:23 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 23:42:23 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector 0-ring lube
Message-ID: <1AFB80C12B5E42218C85DDA67C2E856A@dim8100>

I have used all of the products mentioned (except DC-4) for the appropriate
application, but never for fuel (in aviation). Silicon based greases are
usually good with oils but are generally bad for fuel. Krytox (a competitor
to Fomblin) are both excellent, but due to their expense, are not worth the
benefit when a better, lower cost product, is made for the purpose.



There was a product specifically formulated for fuel fittings in general
aviation. It was called Fuel Lube but is no longer available. The substitute
for Fuel Lube is EZ Turn Lube. I have not used it and cannot vouch for the
results but read the spec on the web site. I doubt Aircraft Spruce would
sell it if it didn't work. The 5 oz tube will last you a lifetime!



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php







.

From kturk at adelphia.net  Tue May  4 09:52:50 2010
From: kturk at adelphia.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 10:52:50 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....
In-Reply-To: <1AFB80C12B5E42218C85DDA67C2E856A@dim8100>
References: <1AFB80C12B5E42218C85DDA67C2E856A@dim8100>
Message-ID: <D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>

I shook the Box this morning and the damnest thing happened.......  The 
Camaro fell out of the  back of it....

Wow....  and now I have to find room in the shop for it.....  ( damn 
motorcycles are EVERYWHERE )...

Life is Good..... how you guys doing????

K

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue May  4 10:28:20 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 10:28:20 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....
In-Reply-To: <D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
References: <1AFB80C12B5E42218C85DDA67C2E856A@dim8100>
	<D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
Message-ID: <C3D05581-8D3D-4DEA-973A-3D8F9FA91CCC@comcast.net>

Getting ready for family coming in for my youngest's graduation from the U of
U nursing school.  Now she can
tell someone else how to take care of themselves.  Or maybe not ... she wants
to work in an emergency room.

Wes

On May 4, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Keith Turk wrote:

> I shook the Box this morning and the damnest thing happened.......  The
Camaro fell out of the  back of it....
>
> Wow....  and now I have to find room in the shop for it.....  ( damn
motorcycles are EVERYWHERE )...
>
> Life is Good..... how you guys doing????
>
> K
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/wester6935 at comcast.net

From neil at dbelltech.com  Tue May  4 10:44:20 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 09:44:20 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....
In-Reply-To: <D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
References: <1AFB80C12B5E42218C85DDA67C2E856A@dim8100>
	<D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
Message-ID: <7C75606378904601ABF335B1DF04966E@tiger>

Well Keith, just move the bikes around to make room for the Camaro.

Things are great here-- the desert is green and the wildflowers are 
blooming, the temperature is 77 and the sky is blue. I'm still cutting, 
grinding, and welding on my chassis to get it to Bonneville but it won't be 
this year. :(

We're having a Cinco de Mayo party out in our courtyard tomorrow evening .. 
as you said, "Life is good"

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at adelphia.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:52 AM
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....

> I shook the Box this morning and the damnest thing happened.......  The 
> Camaro fell out of the  back of it....
>
> Wow....  and now I have to find room in the shop for it.....  ( damn 
> motorcycles are EVERYWHERE )...
>
> Life is Good..... how you guys doing????
>
> K

From SCowle at mentorcollege.edu  Tue May  4 11:21:52 2010
From: SCowle at mentorcollege.edu (Scott Cowle)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 13:21:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....
In-Reply-To: <D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
References: <1AFB80C12B5E42218C85DDA67C2E856A@dim8100>
	<D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
Message-ID: <4BE01F70020000380000EB35@gw.40forest.com>

Hi Keith-it has been a couple of years since I've been down to Maxton. I've
been running my Duster and blowing the motor up with an amazing regularity.
But my main focus these past two years has been fund-raising for landmine
removal in Cambodia and in March I took 21 students to Cambodia and had the
most amazing experiences there. We were in three different minefields,and I
mean right in them.If that don't wake you up ,nothin will, but I know you guys
have seen this type of thing before.Anyways,that has used up most of my car
budget,but as you said and I agree 199% more now than ever, life is
fantastic,and some day soon I'll come back down to Maxton, just so I can blow
my motor up there instead of here! All the best to all of you. I miss the
racing something fierce! Scott Cowle-The "EH" Team

>>> "Keith Turk" <kturk at adelphia.net> 5/4/2010 11:52 AM >>>
I shook the Box this morning and the damnest thing happened.......  The
Camaro fell out of the  back of it....

Wow....  and now I have to find room in the shop for it.....  ( damn
motorcycles are EVERYWHERE )...

Life is Good..... how you guys doing????

K
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/scowle at mentorcollege.edu



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<<<MentorCollege>>>

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue May  4 11:31:39 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 11:31:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....
In-Reply-To: <D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
References: <1AFB80C12B5E42218C85DDA67C2E856A@dim8100>
	<D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
Message-ID: <44CA1C49E61B4EA188B12C8690F189DB@GlenPC>

Easy, put the motorcycles in the box and don't shake it. Give Tonya a hug 
for me.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at adelphia.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 9:52 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....


>I shook the Box this morning and the damnest thing happened.......  The 
>Camaro fell out of the  back of it....
>
> Wow....  and now I have to find room in the shop for it.....  ( damn 
> motorcycles are EVERYWHERE )...
>
> Life is Good..... how you guys doing????
>
> K
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From fosterap at flash.net  Tue May  4 11:54:19 2010
From: fosterap at flash.net (Jerry Foster)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 12:54:19 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....
In-Reply-To: <7C75606378904601ABF335B1DF04966E@tiger>
References: <1AFB80C12B5E42218C85DDA67C2E856A@dim8100><D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
	<7C75606378904601ABF335B1DF04966E@tiger>
Message-ID: <18882DBA964349B5B4228A6079099858@blackhp>

Everything good in Dallas.  My engine is #3 in line for the dyno.  I'll be 
at Speedweek, but, like Neal, my car won't make it this year.  Jerry


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at adelphia.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....


> Well Keith, just move the bikes around to make room for the Camaro.
>
> Things are great here-- the desert is green and the wildflowers are 
> blooming, the temperature is 77 and the sky is blue. I'm still cutting, 
> grinding, and welding on my chassis to get it to Bonneville but it won't 
> be this year. :(
>
> We're having a Cinco de Mayo party out in our courtyard tomorrow evening 
> .. as you said, "Life is good"
>
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at adelphia.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:52 AM
> To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....
>
>> I shook the Box this morning and the damnest thing happened.......  The 
>> Camaro fell out of the  back of it....
>>
>> Wow....  and now I have to find room in the shop for it.....  ( damn 
>> motorcycles are EVERYWHERE )...
>>
>> Life is Good..... how you guys doing????
>>
>> K

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Tue May  4 17:35:17 2010
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 18:35:17 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....
In-Reply-To: <D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
References: <1AFB80C12B5E42218C85DDA67C2E856A@dim8100>
	<D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20DC07653@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Engine on the stand, tranny on the floor, waiting on parts... this sound
familiar to anybody?

Mike Meierle
Sr. Systems Engineer
Alcatel-Lucent
7751 Windsor Drive
Dublin, OH 43016
(-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Keith Turk
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:53 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....

I shook the Box this morning and the damnest thing happened.......  The
Camaro fell out of the  back of it....

Wow....  and now I have to find room in the shop for it.....  ( damn
motorcycles are EVERYWHERE )...

Life is Good..... how you guys doing????

K
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/mike.meierle at alcatel-lu
cent.com

From websters at pyramid.net  Wed May  5 08:16:02 2010
From: websters at pyramid.net (Dan)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 07:16:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] D Motor
Message-ID: <001c01caec5d$7e58e870$ddcba3d8@gateway>

Good Morning List, brand new "D" motor for sale contact me off the list at
websters at pyramid.net  Thanks

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed May  5 08:27:16 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 08:27:16 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Is your personal information secure?  Non LSR
Message-ID: <3B31735C-6213-4F86-8A99-9CEDC9AA451A@comcast.net>

http://www.wimp.com/copymachines/

From david_dymaxion at yahoo.com  Wed May  5 09:42:41 2010
From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com (David Dymaxion)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 08:42:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Streamliner Electric
In-Reply-To: <mailman.17.1271700002.8061.land-speed@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.17.1271700002.8061.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <897591.39633.qm@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I thought the land speeders would like to see the pics of this street legal, very streamlined car. This car is using about half the energy of many typical electric conversions.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lektwik/DaveSStreamlinerDolphine#

From turbovortec6 at yahoo.com  Wed May  5 20:25:56 2010
From: turbovortec6 at yahoo.com (Randy Will)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 19:25:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....
In-Reply-To: <D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
References: <1AFB80C12B5E42218C85DDA67C2E856A@dim8100>
	<D7D9ABBA241D464991F87D46D31FDB1C@KeithTurksPC>
Message-ID: <787295.9986.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Keith, 
            I have a big empty space in my shop since I sold my 68 Chevelle,  but with 60  to 75 hour
work weeks I have no time for anything else. I have been looking for a bike project. Anybody have a big bore two stroke laying around.
 Randy
Wailer One Racing




________________________________
From: Keith Turk <kturk at adelphia.net>
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 10:52:50 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Ahhh So that's what was in there.....

I shook the Box this morning and the damnest thing happened.......  The Camaro fell out of the  back of it....

Wow....  and now I have to find room in the shop for it.....  ( damn motorcycles are EVERYWHERE )...

Life is Good..... how you guys doing????

K
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/turbovortec6 at yahoo.com

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat May  8 09:00:24 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 08:00:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
Message-ID: <4BE57C88.9090505@mayfco.com>

Sitting here having a cuppa and was thinking about flow testing EFI 
injectors.   With the hardware in the loop simulator I have to test my 
brain box tunes I could also test the injectors for flow at all the 
scenarios likely to be encountered on a run down the white dyno.  But, I 
am a bit leery of spraying gasoline as a working fluid. Anyone know of a 
fluid that is similar to gasoline properties without being combustible  
or harming the injectors?   I would also want to use the same fuel pump 
and pressure regulator as well so the fluid would have to be harmless. 

Any chemists out there?

mayf

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sat May  8 10:12:52 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 09:12:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
In-Reply-To: <4BE57C88.9090505@mayfco.com>
References: <4BE57C88.9090505@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <2CC908AEEC704898914587670BC62456@tiger>

Mayf;

Maybe water with just a bit of soluble oil to lubricate the pump? I haven't 
tried it, though.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 8:00 AM
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing

> Sitting here having a cuppa and was thinking about flow testing EFI 
> injectors.   With the hardware in the loop simulator I have to test my 
> brain box tunes I could also test the injectors for flow at all the 
> scenarios likely to be encountered on a run down the white dyno.  But, I 
> am a bit leery of spraying gasoline as a working fluid. Anyone know of a 
> fluid that is similar to gasoline properties without being combustible  or 
> harming the injectors?   I would also want to use the same fuel pump and 
> pressure regulator as well so the fluid would have to be harmless.
> Any chemists out there?
>
> mayf

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sat May  8 13:10:44 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 12:10:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
In-Reply-To: <4BE57C88.9090505@mayfco.com>
References: <4BE57C88.9090505@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20100508190935.7D6E718767C@autox.team.net>

Mayf,
Why not call one of the fuel injection companies and see what they 
use? I think diesel would work. Not so volatile.
Skip




At 08:00 AM 5/8/2010, drmayf wrote:
>Sitting here having a cuppa and was thinking about flow testing EFI 
>injectors.   With the hardware in the loop simulator I have to test 
>my brain box tunes I could also test the injectors for flow at all 
>the scenarios likely to be encountered on a run down the white 
>dyno.  But, I am a bit leery of spraying gasoline as a working 
>fluid. Anyone know of a fluid that is similar to gasoline properties 
>without being combustible
>or harming the injectors?   I would also want to use the same fuel 
>pump and pressure regulator as well so the fluid would have to be harmless.
>Any chemists out there?
>
>mayf
>_______________________________________________
>Land-speed at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltrat at pahrump.com

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sat May  8 13:12:10 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 12:12:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
Message-ID: <20100508191101.83FF118767C@autox.team.net>

Mayf,
Why not call one of the fuel injection companies and see what they 
use? I think diesel would work. Not so volatile.
Skip




At 08:00 AM 5/8/2010, drmayf wrote:
>Sitting here having a cuppa and was thinking about flow testing EFI 
>injectors.   With the hardware in the loop simulator I have to test 
>my brain box tunes I could also test the injectors for flow at all 
>the scenarios likely to be encountered on a run down the white 
>dyno.  But, I am a bit leery of spraying gasoline as a working 
>fluid. Anyone know of a fluid that is similar to gasoline properties 
>without being combustible
>or harming the injectors?   I would also want to use the same fuel 
>pump and pressure regulator as well so the fluid would have to be harmless.
>Any chemists out there?
>
>mayf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat May  8 14:18:24 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 13:18:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
In-Reply-To: <4BE57C88.9090505@mayfco.com> 
References: <4BE57C88.9090505@mayfco.com> 
Message-ID: <4BE5C710.6060007@mayfco.com>

Well, diesel, while a petroleum product, isn't all that similar.  Has 
twice the molecular weight, has about 65 to 1 less vapor pressure,  
higher density, and about 5 times more viscose etc.   Plus, then I would 
have to clean the stuff out of everything.   I keep thinking of a 
refrigerant type fluid, but haven't looked. As to asking, I might do 
that but the research is a learning process for me and I am always 
trying to learn rather than just jumping in and implementing. I always 
learn something even if it is wrong most of the time, lol...

mayf
Skip Higginbotham wrote:

> Mayf,
> Why not call one of the fuel injection companies and see what they 
> use? I think diesel would work. Not so volatile.
> Skip
>
>
>
>
> At 08:00 AM 5/8/2010, drmayf wrote:
>
>> Sitting here having a cuppa and was thinking about flow testing EFI 
>> injectors.   With the hardware in the loop simulator I have to test 
>> my brain box tunes I could also test the injectors for flow at all 
>> the scenarios likely to be encountered on a run down the white dyno.  
>> But, I am a bit leery of spraying gasoline as a working fluid. Anyone 
>> know of a fluid that is similar to gasoline properties without being 
>> combustible
>> or harming the injectors?   I would also want to use the same fuel 
>> pump and pressure regulator as well so the fluid would have to be 
>> harmless.
>> Any chemists out there?
>>
>> mayf

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat May  8 20:10:27 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 19:10:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
References: <4BE57C88.9090505@mayfco.com>  <4BE5C710.6060007@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <F585F37F670A4F35A075C896CDF61CA9@edc2750afa5a84>

Mayf -- 
How about the ethanol you buy at the hardware store for shellac thinner?
Fairly cheap.  And any remainder will be gone as soon as you have a few 
seconds warm up. Besides it's already in the gasoline you get on the street. 
If the low flash point worries you then go pricier with 91% IPA you get in 
the drug store.  Or maybe 70% for most of the testing and a last shot of 91% 
to dissolve what water remains in the hardware.
Seems to me that anything with a safe high flash point is either going to be 
too high in viscosity, too expensive or kinda nasty to use (TCE, etc).
Ed Weldon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing


> Well, diesel, while a petroleum product, isn't all that similar.  Has 
> twice the molecular weight, has about 65 to 1 less vapor pressure,  higher 
> density, and about 5 times more viscose etc.   Plus, then I would have to 
> clean the stuff out of everything.   I keep thinking of a refrigerant type 
> fluid, but haven't looked. As to asking, I might do that but the research 
> is a learning process for me and I am always trying to learn rather than 
> just jumping in and implementing. I always learn something even if it is 
> wrong most of the time, lol...
>
> mayf
> Skip Higginbotham wrote:
>
>> Mayf,
>> Why not call one of the fuel injection companies and see what they use? I 
>> think diesel would work. Not so volatile.
>> Skip

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sun May  9 21:35:44 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 20:35:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
Message-ID: <C83036E112CB458D8C1C80528CF9F695@dim8100>

Great question, Mayf and thanks for asking it. I have been wondering about
it myself for a while. So thinking out loud I have a couple of questions.



Isn't viscosity more important than molecular weight? Viscosity is more
about material properties than MW. Or do you think kinetic energy will
effect the response time of the pintel and is therefore more important?



It has been easy to find the viscosity of various fuels except for gasoline!
What do you use for the viscosity of gas?



In looking at various flash points, Stoddard Solvent is 100F (not as high as
diesel but with a viscosity which I ''assume'' may be closer to gas). So if
you cranked up the good old AC in the shop to get into the 70-80F range
would you have some safety factor? Or is this a too hazardous approach? Auto
ignition of both gas and Stoddard are similar (in the mid 400F range). I
realize the goal is a non-flammable liquid period!  Another thought may be
some of these water-based aviation hydraulic fluids. Water based is being
required in aviation but again, I don't know the viscosity. For a gas
substitute, what are the material properties you want as close as possible?

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon May 10 07:57:10 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 06:57:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
In-Reply-To: <C83036E112CB458D8C1C80528CF9F695@dim8100>
References: <C83036E112CB458D8C1C80528CF9F695@dim8100>
Message-ID: <4BE810B6.7090601@mayfco.com>

Well, this wasn't meant tobe  a thesis paper or major effort to 
understand injectors. I simply want the closest in physical properties, 
to gasoline, non flamable fluid I can find. Why? So I don't have to go 
into a major research effort. I am no chemist, but the minimal data I 
looked at seems to indicate that long chain molecules are thicker than 
short chain ones. That would indicate that molecular weight is higher?  
Also, it appeared that density for long chains was higher than short 
chains for organic molecules.   I simply want that fluid so I do not 
have to do a lot of research.  I really do not give a hoot about having 
a  wealth of knowledge about some fluid other than it will work.  
Stoddard solvent is on  my list of those to check out.  To me, the most 
important items are "will it flow similarly to gasoline and not blow up 
in my face if ignited".  These two fluids are used as gasoline simulants 
so they are on my list to check: viscor 16a and 16b. 

So you are probably wondering why I want to do this. Well, every 
injector is off a tad from its brothers.  If I can get egt measurements 
from each cylinder at full bogie, then I know that the cylinder mixture 
is leaner or richer depending on temperature (rule of thumb). If it was 
hotter by a few percent then I might select an injector that flows a tad 
more and put it in that position. So I need to understand the injector 
flow at full boost and full rpm. And I need to use the hardware that is 
on the car because that affects it all as well. And so on. Seems to me 
that would be optimimun. Individual AFR sensors would work also, but  
that seems a bit expensive. Anyway, that's why I am considering this. My 
speed secret (soleful sigh..tongue in cheek) is out.....

mayf

Kirkwood wrote:

>Great question, Mayf and thanks for asking it. I have been wondering about
>it myself for a while. So thinking out loud I have a couple of questions.
>
>
>
>Isn't viscosity more important than molecular weight? Viscosity is more
>about material properties than MW. Or do you think kinetic energy will
>effect the response time of the pintel and is therefore more important?
>
>
>
>It has been easy to find the viscosity of various fuels except for gasoline!
>What do you use for the viscosity of gas?
>
>
>
>In looking at various flash points, Stoddard Solvent is 100F (not as high as
>diesel but with a viscosity which I ''assume'' may be closer to gas). So if
>you cranked up the good old AC in the shop to get into the 70-80F range
>would you have some safety factor? Or is this a too hazardous approach? Auto
>ignition of both gas and Stoddard are similar (in the mid 400F range). I
>realize the goal is a non-flammable liquid period!  Another thought may be
>some of these water-based aviation hydraulic fluids. Water based is being
>required in aviation but again, I don't know the viscosity. For a gas
>substitute, what are the material properties you want as close as possible?

From jdincau at qnet.com  Mon May 10 10:02:09 2010
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:02:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
In-Reply-To: <4BE810B6.7090601@mayfco.com>
References: <C83036E112CB458D8C1C80528CF9F695@dim8100>
	<4BE810B6.7090601@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <012AF68F446B4097B0156428AE9E00F7@denpc>

Why not give Enderlie or Hilborn a call and see what they use for flowing 
their mechanical injector pumps?
Jim 

From mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Mon May 10 11:07:33 2010
From: mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (Meierle, Michael D (Mike))
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:07:33 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
In-Reply-To: <4BE810B6.7090601@mayfco.com>
References: <C83036E112CB458D8C1C80528CF9F695@dim8100>
	<4BE810B6.7090601@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <CC519D1BCDE8D24482EC9913EAF3AD850AC5C3C779@USNAVSXCHMBSC2.ndc.alcatel-lucent.com>

Mayf,

Apparently there is a certified fluid used for testing, and is specifically
manufactured for testing injectors.

http://www.cruzinperformance.com/injsteps.html

Bout halfway down the page. Is a pix of ASTM Spec's and such.

Maybe you should just send them to these guys?

Mike Meierle
#847 F/BMMP
Gear Grinders/Sidewinders
SCTA-BNI/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder/Bonneville Record Holder


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:57 AM
To: Kirkwood
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing

Well, this wasn't meant tobe  a thesis paper or major effort to
understand injectors. I simply want the closest in physical properties,
to gasoline, non flamable fluid I can find. Why? So I don't have to go
into a major research effort. I am no chemist, but the minimal data I
looked at seems to indicate that long chain molecules are thicker than
short chain ones. That would indicate that molecular weight is higher?
Also, it appeared that density for long chains was higher than short
chains for organic molecules.   I simply want that fluid so I do not
have to do a lot of research.  I really do not give a hoot about having
a  wealth of knowledge about some fluid other than it will work.
Stoddard solvent is on  my list of those to check out.  To me, the most
important items are "will it flow similarly to gasoline and not blow up
in my face if ignited".  These two fluids are used as gasoline simulants
so they are on my list to check: viscor 16a and 16b.

So you are probably wondering why I want to do this. Well, every
injector is off a tad from its brothers.  If I can get egt measurements
from each cylinder at full bogie, then I know that the cylinder mixture
is leaner or richer depending on temperature (rule of thumb). If it was
hotter by a few percent then I might select an injector that flows a tad
more and put it in that position. So I need to understand the injector
flow at full boost and full rpm. And I need to use the hardware that is
on the car because that affects it all as well. And so on. Seems to me
that would be optimimun. Individual AFR sensors would work also, but
that seems a bit expensive. Anyway, that's why I am considering this. My
speed secret (soleful sigh..tongue in cheek) is out.....

mayf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon May 10 11:24:29 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:24:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
In-Reply-To: <62F979D345DA4507AF1A45887BEAF20C@stevescomp>
References: <C83036E112CB458D8C1C80528CF9F695@dim8100>
	<4BE810B6.7090601@mayfco.com>
	<62F979D345DA4507AF1A45887BEAF20C@stevescomp>
Message-ID: <4BE8414D.5020003@mayfco.com>

Steve, I am not seeking a company to do testing for  me. There are a lot 
of those. I am looking for the "perfect" fluid to use as a simulant for 
gasoline to use in testing here at my shop.  I have a hardware in the 
loop simulator which can operate my cars electronics and I want to use 
that to drive the injectors. That way I can see, using the on car 
hardware, how my injectors are flowing. This will give me that data and 
will also show up any faulty harness issues or EMS injector driver 
issues.   I am seeking a fluid that mimics gasoline but is not 
flammable, if such exists.  I did look at ASNU but could not determine 
what it is they use for the working fluid or for cleaning the 
injectors.  Did you happen to see anytnig like that on that site?

mayf


Steve Christophersen wrote:

> Try this site:
>
>
> http://www.asnu.com/
>
>
>
>
> Steve
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:57 AM
> To: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
>
>> Well, this wasn't meant tobe  a thesis paper or major effort to 
>> understand injectors. I simply want the closest in physical 
>> properties, to gasoline, non flamable fluid I can find. Why? So I 
>> don't have to go into a major research effort. I am no chemist, but 
>> the minimal data I looked at seems to indicate that long chain 
>> molecules are thicker than short chain ones. That would indicate that 
>> molecular weight is higher?  Also, it appeared that density for long 
>> chains was higher than short chains for organic molecules.   I simply 
>> want that fluid so I do not have to do a lot of research.  I really 
>> do not give a hoot about having a  wealth of knowledge about some 
>> fluid other than it will work.  Stoddard solvent is on  my list of 
>> those to check out.  To me, the most important items are "will it 
>> flow similarly to gasoline and not blow up in my face if ignited".  
>> These two fluids are used as gasoline simulants so they are on my 
>> list to check: viscor 16a and 16b.
>> So you are probably wondering why I want to do this. Well, every 
>> injector is off a tad from its brothers.  If I can get egt 
>> measurements from each cylinder at full bogie, then I know that the 
>> cylinder mixture is leaner or richer depending on temperature (rule 
>> of thumb). If it was hotter by a few percent then I might select an 
>> injector that flows a tad more and put it in that position. So I need 
>> to understand the injector flow at full boost and full rpm. And I 
>> need to use the hardware that is on the car because that affects it 
>> all as well. And so on. Seems to me that would be optimimun. 
>> Individual AFR sensors would work also, but  that seems a bit 
>> expensive. Anyway, that's why I am considering this. My speed secret 
>> (soleful sigh..tongue in cheek) is out.....
>>
>> mayf

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon May 10 11:58:01 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:58:01 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
In-Reply-To: <4BE8414D.5020003@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <7A291B1D31C64A079B424BEF37590FC3@dim8100>

Yep, I looked at all three videos and no joy on the fluid used. I suspect if
it is as hard to find a substitute for gasoline as we are finding out; they
aren't about to give away a proprietary secrete.  Interesting how the
picture was always clear and none of the fluid fogged the windows. Must have
a pretty good vacuum.

-----Original Message-----
From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com]
(edit) . . . . I am seeking a fluid that mimics gasoline but is not
flammable, if such exists.  I did look at ASNU but could not determine
what it is they use for the working fluid or for cleaning the
injectors.  Did you happen to see anytnig like that on that site?

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Mon May 10 14:56:06 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 16:56:06 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance
Message-ID: <5C0A3DDFB94C4257B27E30E89A73DAF8@john>

For a 427 stroke , 7500 rpm and the lighter oil everybody uses what sort of
bearing clearance works at Bonneville .

John Burk

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon May 10 14:56:46 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 13:56:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Fuel Injector testing
Message-ID: <17ED2D84D77943B18724AB504BBB5CF8@edc2750afa5a84>

FWD to list with edits. ......EW

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "23weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing


> Mayf -- Here's a couple of items from a bit of Google searching:
> Viscor 16-B (which shows up in the photos mentioned in Mike's email)
> http://www.rockvalleyoil.com/cf.html
>
> PETROLEUM PRODUCTS GROUP:
> Petroleum Oils, Greases and Related Products (NMFC 155250)
> This spec shown in the photo from Mike's link:
> http://www.cruzinperformance.com/injsteps.html Suggests that the special 
> injector test fluid is petroleum based and thus has some flammability. 
> But the people who sell it should be in a fairly good position to discuss 
> the handling of the fluid with a potential customer (like yourself,  once 
> you get over the sticker shock)
> Here are other interesting web pages pertinent to what you are doing:
> http://society.kisti.re.kr/~Eksae/_notes/data/pdf/v5n1_2.pdf
> http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=209516&page=21
> http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=117108&page=1
> Ed

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "Steve Christophersen" <sotacd at comcast.net>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 10:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector testing
>> Steve, I am not seeking a company to do testing for  me. There are a lot 
>> of those. I am looking for the "perfect" fluid to use as a simulant for 
>> gasoline to use in testing here at my shop.  I have a hardware in the 
>> loop simulator which can operate my cars electronics and I want to use 
>> that to drive the injectors. That way I can see, using the on car 
>> hardware, how my injectors are flowing. This will give me that data and 
>> will also show up any faulty harness issues or EMS injector driver 
>> issues.   I am seeking a fluid that mimics gasoline but is not flammable, 
>> if such exists.  I did look at ASNU but could not determine what it is 
>> they use for the working fluid or for cleaning the injectors.  Did you 
>> happen to see anytnig like that on that site?
>> mayf

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon May 10 15:58:37 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 14:58:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing
Message-ID: <D3B38FB57F714E4BB0AA0FA1AACC51DE@dim8100>

Thanks for that link Mike Meierle. The one pic you pointed out led me
goggling the ASTM spec and the certified fluid. The ASTM spec is simply a
test procedure. Not worth reading at this point without a viable fluid. If
repeatability is important it may be helpful in the future.



After filtering through all the bs, and if you eliminate all citations to
any form of alcohol, some likely candidates are:

Stoddard Solvent

N-Heptane

Heptane

Viscor 120B

Viscor 16A & 16B

ANSU's proprietary fluid

Exsol D-40

Indolene (best match to gas)

Rock Valley's Viscor 1482 AW2 (calibrating fluid)



I find it interesting Stoddard was mentioned frequently even though it is
still flammable. (One posting said to use a explosion proof enclosure).  But
in all likely hood it appears a Chemical Company called Rock Valley makes
various calibrating fluids. I have signed up (it takes 24 hrs) to get an
MSDS. I'll post what I find out.

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Mon May 10 20:40:20 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 22:40:20 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance
Message-ID: <06573D7DAA8F48259A1E60E00BFBE28E@john>

 BBC

> John, 427 what? Chevy? Ford?  If tiz chevy and a stroked small block then 
> excuse the ring, lol.... I know nothing about them ch*vy critters...
>
> mayf
> John Burk wrote:
>
>>For a 427 stroke , 7500 rpm and the lighter oil everybody uses what sort 
>>of
>>bearing clearance works at Bonneville .
>>
>>John Burk

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue May 11 17:53:56 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 16:53:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance
In-Reply-To: <06573D7DAA8F48259A1E60E00BFBE28E@john>
References: <06573D7DAA8F48259A1E60E00BFBE28E@john>
Message-ID: <20100511235242.0679B18763F@autox.team.net>

More important than clearances is oil volume. If you run a dry sump 
system, you're fine. But if you run a wet sump, be sure to have at 
least 12 quarts of oil or one of the newer blocks that have priority 
oiling. I have not so good experience...........
On the subject of clearance, with lower viscosity oil, reduce bearing 
clearances. And piston skirt clearances. Depending on how light the 
oil is, 2 to 3 thou on the rods and 3 to 4 thou on the mains. At 
least 50 psi oil pressure and even better, 10 psi for each hundred 
HP. Doug Odom is a good source of info on engine lower ends.

It matters little the brand of engine....bearings are bearings.

Good luck,
Skip







At 07:40 PM 5/10/2010, John Burk wrote:
>BBC
>
>>John, 427 what? Chevy? Ford?  If tiz chevy and a stroked small 
>>block then excuse the ring, lol.... I know nothing about them ch*vy critters...
>>
>>mayf
>>John Burk wrote:
>>
>>>For a 427 stroke , 7500 rpm and the lighter oil everybody uses what sort of
>>>bearing clearance works at Bonneville .
>>>
>>>John Burk

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue May 11 18:48:07 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 17:48:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance
In-Reply-To: <20100511235242.0679B18763F@autox.team.net>
References: <06573D7DAA8F48259A1E60E00BFBE28E@john>
	<20100511235242.0679B18763F@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <4BE9FAC7.6000203@mayfco.com>

"bearings are bearings"....yeah you'd think so, but them you'd probably 
be wrong!  I can loan you a good book on tribology  should you be 
inclined.  Journal size makes a difference, how the oil is delivered to 
the bearing makes a difference,  bearing whirl makes a difference.  lots 
of things can make a difference.  Had this be a 427 side oiler, I had 
some factory infor for the lemans motors they ran way back when.  alas, 
twas a ch*vy..

You headed out in the morning?  Which way you decide on? 

mayf
Skip Higginbotham wrote:

> More important than clearances is oil volume. If you run a dry sump 
> system, you're fine. But if you run a wet sump, be sure to have at 
> least 12 quarts of oil or one of the newer blocks that have priority 
> oiling. I have not so good experience...........
> On the subject of clearance, with lower viscosity oil, reduce bearing 
> clearances. And piston skirt clearances. Depending on how light the 
> oil is, 2 to 3 thou on the rods and 3 to 4 thou on the mains. At least 
> 50 psi oil pressure and even better, 10 psi for each hundred HP. Doug 
> Odom is a good source of info on engine lower ends.
>
> It matters little the brand of engine....bearings are bearings.
>
> Good luck,
> Skip
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 07:40 PM 5/10/2010, John Burk wrote:
>
>> BBC
>>
>>> John, 427 what? Chevy? Ford?  If tiz chevy and a stroked small block 
>>> then excuse the ring, lol.... I know nothing about them ch*vy 
>>> critters...
>>>
>>> mayf
>>> John Burk wrote:
>>>
>>>> For a 427 stroke , 7500 rpm and the lighter oil everybody uses what 
>>>> sort of
>>>> bearing clearance works at Bonneville .
>>>>
>>>> John Burk
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue May 11 18:50:40 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 17:50:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance
In-Reply-To: <20100511235242.0679B18763F@autox.team.net>
References: <06573D7DAA8F48259A1E60E00BFBE28E@john>
	<20100511235242.0679B18763F@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <4BE9FB60.3000600@mayfco.com>

OOps! Forgot something... 10 psig for every hundred hp?   So a 1300 hp 
motor should have 130 psig? a 2500 hp one have 250 psig?  I though the 
rule was 10 psig for every 1000 rpm.

mayf

Skip Higginbotham wrote:

> More important than clearances is oil volume. If you run a dry sump 
> system, you're fine. But if you run a wet sump, be sure to have at 
> least 12 quarts of oil or one of the newer blocks that have priority 
> oiling. I have not so good experience...........
> On the subject of clearance, with lower viscosity oil, reduce bearing 
> clearances. And piston skirt clearances. Depending on how light the 
> oil is, 2 to 3 thou on the rods and 3 to 4 thou on the mains. At least 
> 50 psi oil pressure and even better, 10 psi for each hundred HP. Doug 
> Odom is a good source of info on engine lower ends.
>
> It matters little the brand of engine....bearings are bearings.
>
> Good luck,
> Skip
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 07:40 PM 5/10/2010, John Burk wrote:
>
>> BBC
>>
>>> John, 427 what? Chevy? Ford?  If tiz chevy and a stroked small block 
>>> then excuse the ring, lol.... I know nothing about them ch*vy 
>>> critters...
>>>
>>> mayf
>>> John Burk wrote:
>>>
>>>> For a 427 stroke , 7500 rpm and the lighter oil everybody uses what 
>>>> sort of
>>>> bearing clearance works at Bonneville .
>>>>
>>>> John Burk
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Tue May 11 20:40:09 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:40:09 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Oiling
Message-ID: <70EC553EE1AF46A89ACD126F8A16299B@john>

My pocket calculator just told me some things I didn't know about getting oil
from the main bearings to the rod bearings at higher rpm .

Using the formula for centrifugal force .00034 x weight (lb) x radius (ft) x
rpm squared

The weight of motor oil .0318 # / ci  ( 7.34 # / gal div. by 231 )

The radius .115 ft of a BBC main bearing of .  ( half of 2.75" div. by 12 )

The radius .248 ft from the axis to the outside of the rod journal of a 427
bbc  (half of 3.76" + 1.1 div. by 12 )

So at 7500 rpm it takes 70 psi to just push the oil to the center of the crank
but centrifugal force adds 154 psi at the rod bearing . My 427 bbc dragster
worked fine at 7500 rpm with 60 psi oil pressure so outward flow must have
sucked the oil in to the center of the crank . I wonder if some combination of
stroke , main journal dia , oil press and temp and rpm , rod bearing problems
might not come from oil vaporizing at the crank axis , especially with fuel on
the oil . Does anybody know the vapor pressure of motor oil at 200 deg .

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Tue May 11 21:43:14 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 23:43:14 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Oiling
Message-ID: <D213F6F408404D0785B67A4EE0A83808@john>

I think my pocket calculator had a case of GIGO and that the radius should be
halved . The in pressure required would be 30 psi and the out pressure gain
would be 77 psi . At 7500 rpm the rod bearings would see incoming pressure
less 30 + 77 or a gain of 47 psi .



>My pocket calculator just told me some things I didn't know about getting oil
from the main bearings to the rod >bearings at higher rpm .

>Using the formula for centrifugal force .00034 x weight (lb) x radius (ft) x
rpm squared

>The weight of motor oil .0318 # / ci  ( 7.34 # / gal div. by 231 )

>The radius .115 ft of a BBC main bearing of .  ( half of 2.75" div. by 12 )

>The radius .248 ft from the axis to the outside of the rod journal of a 427
bbc  (half of 3.76" + 1.1 div. by 12 )

>So at 7500 rpm it takes 70 psi to just push the oil to the center of the
crank but centrifugal force adds 154 psi >at the rod bearing . My 427 bbc
dragster worked fine at 7500 rpm with 60 psi oil pressure so outward flow
>must have sucked the oil in to the center of the crank . I wonder if some
combination of stroke , main journal >dia , oil press and temp and rpm , rod
bearing problems might not come from oil vaporizing at the crank axis ,
>especially with fuel on the oil . Does anybody know the vapor pressure of
motor oil at 200 deg .

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue May 11 21:53:42 2010
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 03:53:42 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injection
Message-ID: <W36282765723541273636422@webmail29>

Mayf, I called a buddy of mine that used to own a fuel injection shop and did bench cleaning and flow testing. He said he used mineral spirits.

Ed Van Scoy 
#128 B/GT Corvette 
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue May 11 23:00:26 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:00:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Oiling
In-Reply-To: <70EC553EE1AF46A89ACD126F8A16299B@john>
References: <70EC553EE1AF46A89ACD126F8A16299B@john>
Message-ID: <4BEA35EA.50204@mayfco.com>

John, your calculator failed to mention a couple of things. One is that 
the oil in the bearing clearance gap is flowing out the sides of the 
bearing and that the oil there is at a much much reduced pressure. So 
although centrifugal force slings the oil outward it is not pressing 
against a closed hole: the oil is escaping. Another thing is the phasing 
of the oil flowing into the main bearing journal and on out to the rod 
journal.  Need to check to see if the oil for a short time has a direct 
path from the oil gallery to the rod journal.   It is necessary that the 
oil escapes the bearings.it gets really hot from the shear forces and 
from pushing the wedge of oil around between the two serfaces.  I 
believe tha the NASCAR folk use a smaller bearign clearance and a low 
viscosity oil becaus eheat transfers to tha oil quicker than a heavier 
oil. And at high rpm hea tis the enemy. It kills bearings. So low 
viscosity oil,  move a lot of heat, les shearing force, less bearing 
generated heat,  oil out to oil cooler all tend to longer bearing life.  
Key here would be geting the clearance matched to weight of oil.  Also 
that low viscosity stuff is easier to pump so a free hp gain.

mayf
my  1/2 cents worh, lol.. and prolly not worh that...


John Burk wrote:

>My pocket calculator just told me some things I didn't know about getting oil
>from the main bearings to the rod bearings at higher rpm .
>
>Using the formula for centrifugal force .00034 x weight (lb) x radius (ft) x
>rpm squared
>
>The weight of motor oil .0318 # / ci  ( 7.34 # / gal div. by 231 )
>
>The radius .115 ft of a BBC main bearing of .  ( half of 2.75" div. by 12 )
>
>The radius .248 ft from the axis to the outside of the rod journal of a 427
>bbc  (half of 3.76" + 1.1 div. by 12 )
>
>So at 7500 rpm it takes 70 psi to just push the oil to the center of the crank
>but centrifugal force adds 154 psi at the rod bearing . My 427 bbc dragster
>worked fine at 7500 rpm with 60 psi oil pressure so outward flow must have
>sucked the oil in to the center of the crank . I wonder if some combination of
>stroke , main journal dia , oil press and temp and rpm , rod bearing problems
>might not come from oil vaporizing at the crank axis , especially with fuel on
>the oil . Does anybody know the vapor pressure of motor oil at 200 deg .
>_______________________________________________
>Land-speed at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Wed May 12 08:41:24 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:41:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Oiling
Message-ID: <13121899.1273675284852.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>Key here would be getting the clearance matched to weight of oil.  

Check the Joe Gibbs Oil website will show this match... 

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Wed May 12 18:41:57 2010
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 00:41:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing
Message-ID: <714742014.12165421273711317573.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Mayf,



The rig that the diesel shops use to test injectors looks like a series of
glass (or maybe acrylic) tubes, maybe 24 to 30-inches longB mounted vertically
on a wall and calibrated in cc's.B  An injector is placed in the top of each
tube and aB petcock valve is closed at the bottom of each tube. The injector
pump is then spun on a machine at a known rpm or known number of revolutionsB 
at given throttle settings.B  As diesel fuel is sprayed into each tube it is
measured in cc's. This indicates the performance of each individual injector.



A similar 'poor boy' device might be made from lengths of clear vinyl (1-inch
or 3/4-inch??) tubing available at most hardware stores and fairly cheap. A
piece of plywood, some clamps. plugs for the bottom of the tubing and a tape
measure, and you're in business.



Use gasoline and do it outside....and just be careful!B B  No smoking!





;o)



JGMagoo

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Wed May 12 18:55:45 2010
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 00:55:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing #2--Adendum
Message-ID: <564503720.12170951273712145767.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Mayf,



Re-read my previous post and it dawned on me (duh!) that the inside diameter
of the vinyl tubing would not be consistant enough to get an accurate
reading.B  (double duh!)



Put a plug in the bottom of each tube, starting out with the tube(s) empty.B 
After each test open the petcock(s) and drain the gasolineB into a graduated
beaker to measure the amount of gasoline dispensed by each injector.



With this method, possibly just one catch-tube could be used.B  It would be
slower, but probably just as accurate.B B  A length of white PVC tubing could
also be used as transparancy of the tube would no longer be an issue using
this measurement method.



JGMagoo

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed May 12 20:02:33 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 19:02:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing #2--Adendum
In-Reply-To: <564503720.12170951273712145767.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <564503720.12170951273712145767.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4BEB5DB9.1090307@mayfco.com>

JG, we are thinking along the same lines with a few differences.   I 
will use my hardware in the loop simulator to run the cars efi 
electronics That provides the drive for the injectors just as if I was 
making a run. I can stop at any rpm and any engine load and gather 
samples. I want to get a set of 8 samples at a time so I can do a direct 
comparison of the fuel mass per unit time or rpm  Instead of volume 
measurement, since injectors are rated in pounds per hour, I will use a 
scale to make a weight measurement on the sample jars. I was thinking 
some pint mason jars, lol.   If I use gasoline it will be via long 
extension hoses outside the shop.  I have a 5 gallon can of mineral 
spirits that may be the working fluid, however. Hopefully less flamable 
and it will also clean the  injectors.

Thanks for th eideas!

mayf
jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:

>Mayf,
>
>
>
>Re-read my previous post and it dawned on me (duh!) that the inside diameter
>of the vinyl tubing would not be consistant enough to get an accurate
>reading.B  (double duh!)
>
>
>
>Put a plug in the bottom of each tube, starting out with the tube(s) empty.B 
>After each test open the petcock(s) and drain the gasolineB into a graduated
>beaker to measure the amount of gasoline dispensed by each injector.
>
>
>
>With this method, possibly just one catch-tube could be used.B  It would be
>slower, but probably just as accurate.B B  A length of white PVC tubing could
>also be used as transparancy of the tube would no longer be an issue using
>this measurement method.
>
>
>
>JGMagoo
>_______________________________________________
>Land-speed at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Wed May 12 20:21:04 2010
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 19:21:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing #2--Adendum
Message-ID: <627522.14608.qm@web58001.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

This may be a little too late and really no solution to your query.
I tried doing a search for the specs in the photo at www dot cruzinperformance
dot com  /injsteps.html but didn't find anything of value. Photo indicates 16B
calibration fluid then another line CF 16B-5 etc.
Perhaps someone recognizes the standards and has more input for you ?
Again, no solution, just thinking... (always dangerous)
All the best,
Dale K
Cleveland OH



 It is the province of knowledge to speak and it is the
 privilege of wisdom
to listen.
~ Oliver Wendell Holmes


--- On Wed, 5/12/10, drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:

From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing #2--Adendum
To: jgmagoo at comcast.net
Cc: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 10:02 PM

JG, we are thinking along the same lines with a few differences.   I
will use my hardware in the loop simulator to run the cars efi
electronics That provides the drive for the injectors just as if I was
making a run. I can stop at any rpm and any engine load and gather
samples. I want to get a set of 8 samples at a time so I can do a direct
comparison of the fuel mass per unit time or rpm  Instead of
 volume
measurement, since injectors are rated in pounds per hour, I will use a
scale to make a weight measurement on the sample jars. I was thinking
some pint mason jars, lol.   If I use gasoline it will be via long
extension hoses outside the shop.  I have a 5 gallon can of mineral
spirits that may be the working fluid, however. Hopefully less flamable
and it will also clean the  injectors.

Thanks for th eideas!

mayf
jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:

>Mayf,
>
>
>
>Re-read my previous post and it dawned on me (duh!) that the inside diameter
>of the vinyl tubing would not be consistant enough to get an accurate
>reading.B  (double duh!)
>
>
>
>Put a plug in the bottom of each tube, starting out with the tube(s) empty.B
>After each
 test open the petcock(s) and drain the gasolineB into a
graduated
>beaker to measure the amount of gasoline dispensed by each injector.
>
>
>
>With this method, possibly just one catch-tube could be used.B  It would be
>slower, but probably just as accurate.B B  A length of white PVC tubing
could
>also be used as transparancy of the tube would no longer be an issue using
>this measurement method.
>
>
>
>JGMagoo
>_______________________________________________
>Land-speed at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/dmirror3 at yahoo.com

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed May 12 20:48:21 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 19:48:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing #2--Adendum
In-Reply-To: <627522.14608.qm@web58001.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <627522.14608.qm@web58001.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4BEB6875.3040401@mayfco.com>

It's viscor 16B test calibration fluid.  I don't have the spec yet  but 
I will find it somewhere even if I have to get with the mfg.  I think it 
costs an arm and a leg.

mayf
Dale Krumheuer wrote:

> This may be a little too late and really no solution to your query.
> I tried doing a search for the specs in the photo at www dot 
> cruzinperformance dot com  /injsteps.html but didn't find anything of 
> value. Photo indicates 16B calibration fluid then another line CF 
> 16B-5 etc.
> Perhaps someone recognizes the standards and has more input for you ?
> Again, no solution, just thinking... (always dangerous)
> All the best,
> Dale K
> Cleveland OH
>
>
>
>  It is the province of knowledge to speak and it is the privilege of 
> wisdom to listen.
> ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 5/12/10, drmayf /<drmayf at mayfco.com>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>     Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing #2--Adendum
>     To: jgmagoo at comcast.net
>     Cc: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>     Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 10:02 PM
>
>     JG, we are thinking along the same lines with a few differences.   I
>     will use my hardware in the loop simulator to run the cars efi
>     electronics That provides the drive for the injectors just as if I
>     was
>     making a run. I can stop at any rpm and any engine load and gather
>     samples. I want to get a set of 8 samples at a time so I can do a
>     direct
>     comparison of the fuel mass per unit time or rpm  Instead of volume
>     measurement, since injectors are rated in pounds per hour, I will
>     use a
>     scale to make a weight measurement on the sample jars. I was thinking
>     some pint mason jars, lol.   If I use gasoline it will be via long
>     extension hoses outside the shop.  I have a 5 gallon can of mineral
>     spirits that may be the working fluid, however. Hopefully less
>     flamable
>     and it will also clean the  injectors.
>
>     Thanks for th eideas!
>
>     mayf
>     jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:
>
>     >Mayf,
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >Re-read my previous post and it dawned on me (duh!) that the
>     inside diameter
>     >of the vinyl tubing would not be consistant enough to get an accurate
>     >reading.B  (double duh!)
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >Put a plug in the bottom of each tube, starting out with the
>     tube(s) empty.B
>     >After each test open the petcock(s) and drain the gasolineB into
>     a graduated
>     >beaker to measure the amount of gasoline dispensed by each injector.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >With this method, possibly just one catch-tube could be used.B 
>     It would be
>     >slower, but probably just as accurate.B B  A length of white PVC
>     tubing could
>     >also be used as transparancy of the tube would no longer be an
>     issue using
>     >this measurement method.

From saltfever at comcast.net  Thu May 13 23:59:08 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 22:59:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing #2--Addendum
Message-ID: <FC6B8AA7B36F429686AA272C1618BA72@dim8100>

A series of Viscor products are manufactured by Rock Valley Oil and Chemical
Co. The other day I mentioned that I signed up to get a MSDS on Viscor
16,-A, 16-B, and 16-BR. Their sign-up process requires a user name and
password that is mailed to you within 24 hours. Well 2 days later no joy! I
plan to call them and get a spec and pricing details, however, I will be
leaving for El Mirage tomorrow. I'll will call next Tuesday. If anybody
would like to call, the number is 815/654-2400 (Illinois). Please post what
you find out.

 

From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>

It's viscor 16B test calibration fluid.  I don't have the spec yet  but 

I will find it somewhere even if I have to get with the mfg.  I think it 

costs an arm and a leg.

From saltfever at comcast.net  Fri May 14 14:08:10 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 13:08:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing #2--Addendum
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1273860002.18233.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <65F09E550F604685AA218EF6CA0E8577@dim8100>

Just a quick note. I called and the company says they are swamped and a few
days behind in answering email. They will mail me the MSDS and pricing (5
gallon quantities) for Viscor 16, A, B and BR. I'll post results on Monday
or Tuesday.  Out-o-here for EM . . . .

From: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
A series of Viscor products are manufactured by Rock Valley Oil and Chemical
Co. The other day I mentioned that I signed up to get a MSDS on Viscor
16,-A, 16-B, and 16-BR.

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon May 17 17:05:39 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 16:05:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Testing
Message-ID: <7961A0E1A7C745FEB9310CE751D01CD8@dim8100>

I have received pricing and the MSDS for the following:



Viscor 16-A Gasoline Calibrating Fluid, 5 gallon pail $131.25 plus $25.00
Small Package Service Charge, plus a $15.00 box charge. Density heavier than
air, Flash Point 106F, Explosive range 1.4-8.1%.



Viscor 16-B, 5 gallon pail $131.40, plus $25.00 Package Service Charge, plus
a $15.00 Box Charge. Density is heavier than air, Flash Point 109F,
Explosive range 2.3-8.1%



Viscor 16-BR, 5 gallon pail $133.00, plus a $25.00 Small Package Service
Charge, plus a $15.00 Box Charge. Density is heavier than air, Flash Point
109F, Explosive range 2.3-12.1%



Each MSDS is 5 pages. Send me a PM and indicate the product if you want an
MSDS.

 -Kirk

From sardatech at yahoo.com  Thu May 20 19:15:00 2010
From: sardatech at yahoo.com (tom sarda)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 18:15:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] hans
Message-ID: <769100.10175.qm@web54404.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hey everyone, I'm looking at HANS devices and wonder which tether, sliding or fixed should I get. The seat is at 40 degrees and my neck is 15 so I need a medium 40. Just wonder about the tethers. Thanks, Tom

From NT788 at comcast.net  Fri May 21 10:51:13 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 16:51:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] hans
In-Reply-To: <769100.10175.qm@web54404.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <133972719.32637571274460673543.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Tom 

Sliding tethers allow looking side to side. Is that neccessary in your case? 

Jack 

Hey everyone, I'm looking at HANS devices and wonder which tether, sliding or fixed should I get. The seat is at 40 degrees and my neck is 15 so I need a medium 40. Just wonder about the tethers. Thanks, Tom 
_______________________________________________ 

From saltfever at comcast.net  Fri May 21 13:22:56 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 12:22:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hans
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1274464803.5316.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <39E2F16FD76842A09A0C46180D28C10F@dim8100>

Also, look into the ''optional'' quick-release on the helmet (about $110).
It makes egress far easier than the standard fixed attached point. 

From: tom sarda <sardatech at yahoo.com>
. . .  which tether, sliding or fixed should I get. The seat is at 40
degrees and my neck is 15 so I need a medium 40. Just wonder about the
tethers.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun May 23 12:14:21 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 12:14:21 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Quote of the day
Message-ID: <BD2D490BA0874B058FF1D29F7B98BDA3@GlenPC>

" If all economists were laid end to end ,they would not reach a conclusion"

George Bernard Shaw



Ya think!!

Glen

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sun May 23 13:52:48 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 19:52:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Quote of the day
In-Reply-To: <BD2D490BA0874B058FF1D29F7B98BDA3@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <1015498832.295831274644368807.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

People will be people! 

Jack 

" If all economists were laid end to end ,they would not reach a conclusion" 

George Bernard Shaw 



Ya think!! 

Glen 
_______________________________________________ 

From adin at frontier.net  Sun May 23 14:16:52 2010
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 14:16:52 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Quote of the day
References: <1015498832.295831274644368807.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B6B0B7C15F194C28A4A7FCC9BD63864E@ZTxp>

People never change, they become moreso.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <NT788 at comcast.net>
To: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Quote of the day


> People will be people!
>
> Jack
>
> " If all economists were laid end to end ,they would not reach a 
> conclusion"
>
> George Bernard Shaw
>
>
>
> Ya think!!
>
> Glen
> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/adin at frontier.net
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
> signature database 5139 (20100523) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 


__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5139 (20100523) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sun May 23 14:19:33 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 20:19:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Quote of the day
In-Reply-To: <B6B0B7C15F194C28A4A7FCC9BD63864E@ZTxp>
Message-ID: <827619147.300541274645973013.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Yeah Yeah Thats it! 


People never change, they become moreso. 




> People will be people! 
> 
> Jack 
> 
> " If all economists were laid end to end ,they would not reach a 
> conclusion" 
> 
> George Bernard Shaw 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya think!! 
> 
> Glen 
> _______________________________________________ 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Land-speed at autox.team.net 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive 
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/adin at frontier.net 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
> signature database 5139 (20100523) __________ 
> 
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. 
> 
> http://www.eset.com 
> 
> 
> 


__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5139 (20100523) __________ 

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. 

http://www.eset.com 

From mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Sun May 23 15:12:52 2010
From: mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (Meierle, Michael D (Mike))
Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 16:12:52 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Quote of the day
Message-ID: <CC519D1BCDE8D24482EC9913EAF3AD850AC5CF3BDC@USNAVSXCHMBSC2.ndc.alcatel-lucent.com>

Opportunity is missed by most because it is dressed in overalls and looks like
work. - Thomas Edison

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sun May 23 15:48:54 2010
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (Joe & Lynne Lance)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 17:48:54 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Quote of the day
In-Reply-To: <CC519D1BCDE8D24482EC9913EAF3AD850AC5CF3BDC@USNAVSXCHMBSC2.ndc.alcatel-lucent.com>
References: <CC519D1BCDE8D24482EC9913EAF3AD850AC5CF3BDC@USNAVSXCHMBSC2.ndc.alcatel-lucent.com>
Message-ID: <E15BD3F4C9DD4D4EAF90D2BBDD0E2ECE@josephb4d4bd9f>

There comes a time when every man has to grab the bull by the tail and face
the situation----W. C. Fields

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Meierle, Michael D
(Mike)
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 5:13 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [?? Probable Spam] Re: [Land-speed] Quote of the day

Opportunity is missed by most because it is dressed in overalls and looks
like
work. - Thomas Edison
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/jolylance at earthlink.net

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun May 23 23:02:30 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 22:02:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Gear Drives...
Message-ID: <4BFA0866.2060305@mayfco.com>

Got a new Jegs sale catalog today and was thumbing through it.  Saw a 
cam gear drive ans stopped to think about that. Hmmm, I do not know if I 
ever knew of anyone who actually used one of those on their car. Anybody 
on the list use one for a Ford Small block? It work? 

The list has been deadly silent and I am starting to worry that Pahrump 
actually slid off th earth. Anybody there?

mayf

From NT788 at comcast.net  Mon May 24 08:45:16 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 14:45:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Gear Drives...
In-Reply-To: <4BFA0866.2060305@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <872331126.511411274712316297.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

I have heard the good ones take 13hp.Belt drives the least.

Jack
Got a new Jegs sale catalog today and was thumbing through it. B Saw a
cam gear drive ans stopped to think about that. Hmmm, I do not know if I
ever knew of anyone who actually used one of those on their car. Anybody
on the list use one for a Ford Small block? It work?

The list has been deadly silent and I am starting to worry that Pahrump
actually slid off th earth. Anybody there?

mayf
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net

From NT788 at comcast.net  Mon May 24 09:22:59 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 15:22:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Quote of the day
In-Reply-To: <E15BD3F4C9DD4D4EAF90D2BBDD0E2ECE@josephb4d4bd9f>
Message-ID: <440760279.532141274714579563.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Thank goodness for poets authorsB  composers and comedians!

Jack

There comes a time when every man has to grab the bull by the tail and face
the situation----W. C. Fields

Opportunity is missed by most because it is dressed in overalls and looks
like
work. - Thomas Edison
_______________________________________________

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Mon May 24 09:51:13 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 11:51:13 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Ring end gap
Message-ID: <D61600F66CCD4FC0A1975DD2A86D606F@john>

How much is enough ring end gap for the top 2 rings of an unblown gas bbc ?
This is for my A/GS .

John Burk

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon May 24 13:51:04 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 12:51:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Gear Drives...
Message-ID: <761FFA21B50D4057A4C1400FF35344B9@dim8100>

It is a not needed for LSR and a waste of money. . . before the flames start
let me explain. Gear drive was really developed for circle cars. They are
constantly on and off throttle every 15-30 seconds. In that environment a
chain takes an incredible beating. The first ones were noisy (most still
are) and a lot of ''kids'' liked the artificial blower sound! Precision was
not the focus, longer life was the real issue. In order to sell more units
advertising swill slanted toward the street and other cars . . . it worked!
Bottom line, in LSR you are WOT . . . run a good chain and save money.  YMMV

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Tue May 25 10:39:24 2010
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 16:39:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] The World's Fastest Motorcycle Is For Sale>From>JG
	Magoo
Message-ID: <647928556.1130621274805564673.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

The World's Fastest Motorcycle is For Sale 

From neil at dbelltech.com  Tue May 25 13:15:43 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 12:15:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Gear Drives...
In-Reply-To: <4BFA0866.2060305@mayfco.com>
References: <4BFA0866.2060305@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <029D5FCB88B342E2B65F9784EE84DDF2@tiger>

Mayf;

I have one on my built- up Donovan SBC. It is a Summers Brothers gear drive 
which is pretty popular with circle track and drag guys. It is fairly 
expensive but unless you are going to go with a really good gear drive like 
this I'd stick with a Cloyes roller chain cam drive.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 10:02 PM
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Gear Drives...

> Got a new Jegs sale catalog today and was thumbing through it.  Saw a cam 
> gear drive ans stopped to think about that. Hmmm, I do not know if I ever 
> knew of anyone who actually used one of those on their car. Anybody on the 
> list use one for a Ford Small block? It work?
> The list has been deadly silent and I am starting to worry that Pahrump 
> actually slid off th earth. Anybody there?
>
> mayf

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Tue May 25 13:56:17 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 15:56:17 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NOT LSR,  but a car question none the less..
Message-ID: <9CF6C2024DF24BE4A7AC48051F00B3D0@Dell4400>

 I know that everyone is working toward Bonneville
and time is running out..
 but I came across some photos in the LIFE archives that
 answered one question I had for many years.

 There was a Model A Ford that the test pilots at
 Muroc & Edwards drove. Heard the story for years.
 even has half a page in Chuck Yeagers autobiography.
 The LIFE archives provided a couple of photos of the
 car showing the 1956 Calif. license plate  GGD-283
 photos were taken March 1956, One were in the Life
 Magazine issue of June 18, 1956

 Can anyone come up with a way to obtain the serial Or VIN of
 that Ford, from the CA DMV ?

 If we could trace that car , I think it would be worth seeing
 if its still on the road, and what shape its in..
I have no financial interest, just curious..

 Some of the past owners of that 31 Ford..(Yeager's words)
 Joe Wolfe
 Neil Latham
 Chuck Yeager
 Pete Everest
 Iven Kincheloe
 Bob White

 IF you recognize those names, you know that in the 40s, 50s,
 and 60s they were some of the fastest men in the world.
 Test pilots at Muroc which later became Edwards test center.

 Chuck Yeager flew the X-1 to be the first man to break the sound
 barrier, Bob White flew the X-15 to Mach 4, 5, & 6
the others just as fast but not as lucky.
 The car, by gentleman's agreement was supposed to remain at Edwards
 and was to be sold only to test pilots, for no more then $100.
 According to Chuck Yeager,  Bob White could not keep it running,
 ended up selling it to an airman, who, when he left, took the car
 with him.
 Here are photos of Chuck Yeager with the car.
 and Pete Everest during the time he flew the X-2
 the photos of the car, front and rear, show the  plate in 1956.

 the car with 1956 Calif plates
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/2ba498ec50d42232_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9b3c77a3c552c5fd_large

 on the apron at Edwards. 1956 with Pete Everest at the wheel
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/96ed9b88ad5f0359_large

 On the Flightline at Edwards AFB 1956
 B-50 mothership with X-2 on-board.
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/8380861c2c1a4d85_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/3a4f0d930a0d646d_large

 Pete Everest with car , 1956 lic plate visible
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/0b0136c339a14061_large

 Pete Everest getting a pushstart.
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/6b9546d3fa230cb0_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d4e7d10fdfb3a303_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/90dd21074a2fb4b8_large

 Closeup pf the car and Pete Everest
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/def60a78203b5709_large

  test pilot Iven C. Kincheloe posing with his plane.
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d74bfa24281392cf_large

 Chuck Yeager with the car..
  http://jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=428585&page=22

 Leaving the flight line or guard shack
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e100a9d3c004628a_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/240f2f50ed971736_large

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Tue May 25 16:01:30 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 18:01:30 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NOT LSR,  but a car question none the less..
In-Reply-To: <5E3EA19A7E1944BC90F0FEF15D248636@DaveSatellite>
References: <9CF6C2024DF24BE4A7AC48051F00B3D0@Dell4400>
	<5E3EA19A7E1944BC90F0FEF15D248636@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <76D8C050D49F4761B2B12D100B8FA51A@Dell4400>

Oh Yea, Chuck and Glennis Yeager, both had a lot to say about her in the 
autobiography.
she was a hell of a pilot and character in her own right.
AIr Farce brass done her dirty.......

FWIW: I was looking into the LIFE archives to see if they had any photos 
about the LSR
days at Muroc when I stumbled onto the model A photos.   heard the car 
story, years before
but had never been able to get any real info. until the license photos 
popped up..

 Never know what you are going to find in there...


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:01 PM
To: "John Szalay" <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NOT LSR,  but a car question none the less..

> Poncho Barnes???? Happy Bottom riding club there was a movie I read the 
> book she was the real deal.. they all hung out at her place in the 
> desert..
> ----- Original Message ----- 

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Tue May 25 16:04:04 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 18:04:04 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NOT LSR,  but a car question none the less..
In-Reply-To: <24E6F8718EC1444A91E94A83430DE15D@GlenPC>
References: <9CF6C2024DF24BE4A7AC48051F00B3D0@Dell4400>
	<24E6F8718EC1444A91E94A83430DE15D@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <0C4653C0BD014C3DBBC2D0904D873FBB@Dell4400>

Will do..    THanks...

was scanning the LIFE archives to see if they had any Muroc LSR photos when 
I stumbled onto the
model A shots..
Never know what you will find in there, if you don't dig...

--------------------------------------------------
From: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:13 PM
To: "John Szalay" <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>; "Land Speed" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NOT LSR,  but a car question none the less..

> John
> I would think checking with the Modal A clubs in California would be a 
> good place to start. Google the club for contact information. Good luck 
> and let us know what you find out.
> Glen

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed May 26 09:03:07 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 09:03:07 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Bill Smith Collection : Museum of American Speed :
 Speedway Motors Collection : Lincoln, NE
In-Reply-To: <FCEED3F15C31434186183BB242D033E9@userPC>
References: <FCEED3F15C31434186183BB242D033E9@userPC>
Message-ID: <BB75BDFA-7FAB-4936-80EA-A7AA421C4318@comcast.net>

Their regular tour hours are Monday thru Friday at 2 PM from May through
September.  Admission is $10 for the tour.  Call ahead to find out when they
are having scheduled tours from October through April.  The number is
1-402-323-3166.

To get to the museum, take the I-80 Exit #396 to West "O" Street, turn left to
Sun Valley Blvd ( I think it's almost a mile) and turn left again on Victory
Lane.  The museum is a large, square, three story building with open space on
either side.  There is parking between the Speedway warehouse/sales entrance
and the museum.

There's several sandwich shops on your left as you approach the Sun Valley
Blvd.  stop light.  You'll likely want to eat something there.  They don't
allow food or drinks in the museum.

The tours move at a rather brisk pace to cover all three floors of the museum.
That's the only draw back because for a racer there's just so very much to see
there.  There's a good representation of the things on display at the museum
site Dale has listed.  The displays are not static.  I've been there several
times and there's always something new and interesting to see.  John's
challenge is getting what Speedy Bill  buys out on display, there's a lot he
acquires that is in the process of preparation for display.  There is an
elevator if you don't handle stair well.

If you know John MacKichan you may want to call his cell phone, 402-314-6862
for more information.   He has been given expanded duties for Speedway and
isn't always available.  Tom Burkland, Ron Shook and I were there in early
April and we felt guilty about the time he spent with us but really
appreciated his insight on the collection and the mission of the museum.

Wes

On May 26, 2010, at 7:37 AM, Dale Pulju wrote:

>
> http://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/index.shtml
>
> i think i will stop here this year on way back to penna
>
> dale

From saltfever at comcast.net  Wed May 26 15:33:16 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 14:33:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Gear Drives
Message-ID: <499A1081D84144F4B29CFCEB69C66FB7@dim8100>

In the old days (after the flathead) the ubiquitous SBC was the engine of
choice in circle track racing. That environment was a killer of stock timing
chains. When a chain broke it was not a matter of simply replacing a $19.95
chain. With a high compression motor a broken chain always resulted in a
piston-to-valve collision! That $19 part turned into hundreds of dollars for
repairs! When the $39 Cloyes roller came out it was supposed to be a fix.
Not!  The gear drive was created for durability in an abusive environment
and nothing more. Regardless of advertising swill, I have not seen any good
data clearly showing increased precision or efficiency over a roller chain.
Although, engineering tests have shown precision gear systems may possibly
have better efficiency that a chain it has never been demonstrated for
currently manufactured timing gears.

From saltfever at comcast.net  Wed May 26 15:34:29 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 14:34:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Belt-Drives
Message-ID: <96DE694B52094C41914C6763F0D203C3@dim8100>

Mayf's timely question has raised another issue. If one was to believe
advertising you would think that a belt drive was a magic excelsior to
dampen all the bad harmonics coupled to the cam. Not being an engineer it
sounded like a plausible solution. However, as a technocrat suspicious of
unsubstantiated advertising, I am always looking for good data proving the
supposition. I am still neutral about belt drive claims. Testing and
engineering analysis to prove belt-drive claims is non-trivial and
expensive. In Experimental Aviation a belt-drive-prop-reduction-unit has
always claimed, among other things, to be beneficial due to its dampening
characteristics.  So, in absence of good data, it is refreshing to see an
interesting article that appears to debunk the status quo. 

http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-10_beltdrive.asp

 

Knowledge is horsepower. Too much is a good thing :-)

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed May 26 16:57:56 2010
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 10:57:56 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Belt-Drives
In-Reply-To: <96DE694B52094C41914C6763F0D203C3@dim8100>
References: <96DE694B52094C41914C6763F0D203C3@dim8100>
Message-ID: <836F65F2A09247B5B059EBEC3BD85086@ChrisHarrisPC>

Interesting data, despite lack of harmonic dampening with belt drive, still 
wouldn't use anything else. They're a super nice setup, very dependable and 
make cam timing changes a snap when dyno flogging etc.
Chris Harris...............NZed.

> Mayf's timely question has raised another issue. If one was to believe
> advertising you would think that a belt drive was a magic excelsior to
> dampen all the bad harmonics coupled to the cam. Not being an engineer it
> sounded like a plausible solution. However, as a technocrat suspicious of
> unsubstantiated advertising, I am always looking for good data proving the
> supposition. I am still neutral about belt drive claims. Testing and
> engineering analysis to prove belt-drive claims is non-trivial and
> expensive. In Experimental Aviation a belt-drive-prop-reduction-unit has
> always claimed, among other things, to be beneficial due to its dampening
> characteristics.  So, in absence of good data, it is refreshing to see an
> interesting article that appears to debunk the status quo.
>
> http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-10_beltdrive.asp

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Wed May 26 17:44:49 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 19:44:49 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] ] Cam Gear Drives
Message-ID: <D23026B8DA774AC6BE85AB2C9959617D@john>

Mayf my only experience so far is limited to my B/GD & A/FD ,150 full throttle
miles , 600 x 1/4 . My only failure (stock Chevy chain , die cast / nylon
upper , powdered iron  lower) was with an experimental flat tappet cam Howards
reground on a stock cam and all the lobes wiped out at the same time . Got a
Cloyes and never had another problem . Gary Peters / Hemi Hunter , successful
bbc top fueler only ever used a stock chain and sprockets . I'd say Cloyes .

John

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed May 26 18:52:10 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 17:52:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Belt-Drives
In-Reply-To: <96DE694B52094C41914C6763F0D203C3@dim8100>
References: <96DE694B52094C41914C6763F0D203C3@dim8100>
Message-ID: <4BFDC23A.8060403@mayfco.com>

Sorry, I am not buying it.  Why, you may ask? Well, he provides 
absolutley no data, no methodology to test  or anything other than trust 
me. Just because he says  it is so.  Well, he has to show me the math 
and physics involved.  He talks of no torsional inputs from the prop, 
but looking at his cowling arrangement shows me that's baloney. Every 
time a blade half goes from the horizintal and passing below the 
radiator it has a torsioan; input that is different that the rest of the 
propeller arc.  And teh belt is way more than just a coupling stiffness 
mechanism. How's that? well the teeth on the belt are teh shock 
absorbers which give to reduce the harmonics.   It is kind of like a 
rubber torsional coupling for a boat or anything that needs drive shaft 
shock absorbing, just on a smaller basis but more of them.  In teh case 
of a ICE th eidea is to reduce crank harmonics and preven them from 
getting into the cam causing valve train  errors. Not to mention spark 
timing issues. So I am still on board with cam drive belt systems. Just 
wish I could afford one, lol...

But I like his motor! That is the one on my Turbo Sprint! A screaming 
993 cc of turbo terror......maybe......

mayf
Kirkwood wrote:

>Mayf's timely question has raised another issue. If one was to believe
>advertising you would think that a belt drive was a magic excelsior to
>dampen all the bad harmonics coupled to the cam. Not being an engineer it
>sounded like a plausible solution. However, as a technocrat suspicious of
>unsubstantiated advertising, I am always looking for good data proving the
>supposition. I am still neutral about belt drive claims. Testing and
>engineering analysis to prove belt-drive claims is non-trivial and
>expensive. In Experimental Aviation a belt-drive-prop-reduction-unit has
>always claimed, among other things, to be beneficial due to its dampening
>characteristics.  So, in absence of good data, it is refreshing to see an
>interesting article that appears to debunk the status quo. 
>
>http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-10_beltdrive.asp
>
> 
>
>Knowledge is horsepower. Too much is a good thing :-)
>_______________________________________________
>Land-speed at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed May 26 18:57:13 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 17:57:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Belt-Drives
In-Reply-To: <96DE694B52094C41914C6763F0D203C3@dim8100>
References: <96DE694B52094C41914C6763F0D203C3@dim8100>
Message-ID: <4BFDC369.7060200@mayfco.com>

Resent...stupid trailer at the end.....

m

Sorry, I am not buying it.  Why, you may ask? Well, he provides
absolutley no data, no methodology to test  or anything other than trust
me. Just because he says  it is so.  Well, he has to show me the math
and physics involved.  He talks of no torsional inputs from the prop,
but looking at his cowling arrangement shows me that's baloney. Every
time a blade half goes from the horizintal and passing below the
radiator it has a torsioan; input that is different that the rest of the
propeller arc.  And teh belt is way more than just a coupling stiffness
mechanism. How's that? well the teeth on the belt are teh shock
absorbers which give to reduce the harmonics.   It is kind of like a
rubber torsional coupling for a boat or anything that needs drive shaft
shock absorbing, just on a smaller basis but more of them.  In teh case
of a ICE th eidea is to reduce crank harmonics and preven them from
getting into the cam causing valve train  errors. Not to mention spark
timing issues. So I am still on board with cam drive belt systems. Just
wish I could afford one, lol...

But I like his motor! That is the one on my Turbo Sprint! A screaming
993 cc of turbo terror......maybe......

mayf
Kirkwood wrote:

>Mayf's timely question has raised another issue. If one was to believe
>advertising you would think that a belt drive was a magic excelsior to
>dampen all the bad harmonics coupled to the cam. Not being an engineer it
>sounded like a plausible solution. However, as a technocrat suspicious of
>unsubstantiated advertising, I am always looking for good data proving the
>supposition. I am still neutral about belt drive claims. Testing and
>engineering analysis to prove belt-drive claims is non-trivial and
>expensive. In Experimental Aviation a belt-drive-prop-reduction-unit has
>always claimed, among other things, to be beneficial due to its dampening
>characteristics.  So, in absence of good data, it is refreshing to see an
>interesting article that appears to debunk the status quo. 
>
>http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-10_beltdrive.asp
>
> 
>
>Knowledge is horsepower. Too much is a good thing :-)
>_______________________________________________
>Land-speed at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed May 26 19:13:06 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 18:13:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Gear Drives
In-Reply-To: <499A1081D84144F4B29CFCEB69C66FB7@dim8100>
References: <499A1081D84144F4B29CFCEB69C66FB7@dim8100>
Message-ID: <F0D39266075F4C7F88807436260E5FE5@tiger>

Back in '72 or '73 we were practicing on Saturday for a Can-Am race the next 
day when a timing chain broke on our aluminum BBC. We pulled the engine and 
hauled off it to George Bolthoff's shop where we helped tear it down and 
scrounged through the shop to find parts that were good enough to replace 
the broken ones-- all the speed shops were closed by then. We found 
everything but a few Crane roller rocker arms but with the engine assembled 
and missing a few rockers we went back to Riverside and the Shadow team was 
kind enough to lend us the rockers that we needed to finish the engine. We 
worked all night refitting the engine & tranny and made it to the starting 
grid-- they actually held up the start of the race a few minutes so we could 
take our place on the grid. The damn crowd was keeping us from getting out 
on the track so Bob smoked the tires and scattered the people like quail.

The interesting thing was that our M8C McLaren finished and the Shadow 
didn't.

Oh well-- just a story about broken timing chains from a non- sprint car 
venue.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 2:33 PM
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Gear Drives

> In the old days (after the flathead) the ubiquitous SBC was the engine of
> choice in circle track racing. That environment was a killer of stock 
> timing
> chains. When a chain broke it was not a matter of simply replacing a 
> $19.95
> chain. With a high compression motor a broken chain always resulted in a
> piston-to-valve collision! That $19 part turned into hundreds of dollars 
> for
> repairs! When the $39 Cloyes roller came out it was supposed to be a fix.
> Not!  The gear drive was created for durability in an abusive environment
> and nothing more. Regardless of advertising swill, I have not seen any 
> good
> data clearly showing increased precision or efficiency over a roller 
> chain.
> Although, engineering tests have shown precision gear systems may possibly
> have better efficiency that a chain it has never been demonstrated for
> currently manufactured timing gears.

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed May 26 19:16:13 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 18:16:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Belt-Drives
In-Reply-To: <96DE694B52094C41914C6763F0D203C3@dim8100>
References: <96DE694B52094C41914C6763F0D203C3@dim8100>
Message-ID: <E903F0E653224573AFB04D85D63EE942@tiger>

I might have more faith in the article's author if he had shown some actual 
test data to back up his claim.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 2:34 PM
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Belt-Drives

> Mayf's timely question has raised another issue. If one was to believe
> advertising you would think that a belt drive was a magic excelsior to
> dampen all the bad harmonics coupled to the cam. Not being an engineer it
> sounded like a plausible solution. However, as a technocrat suspicious of
> unsubstantiated advertising, I am always looking for good data proving the
> supposition. I am still neutral about belt drive claims. Testing and
> engineering analysis to prove belt-drive claims is non-trivial and
> expensive. In Experimental Aviation a belt-drive-prop-reduction-unit has
> always claimed, among other things, to be beneficial due to its dampening
> characteristics.  So, in absence of good data, it is refreshing to see an
> interesting article that appears to debunk the status quo.
>
> http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-10_beltdrive.asp
>
>
>
> Knowledge is horsepower. Too much is a good thing :-)

From NT788 at comcast.net  Thu May 27 10:34:54 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:34:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Belt-Drives
In-Reply-To: <4BFDC369.7060200@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <980496416.1910511274978094863.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

the little belt drive on my cheap rockwell table saw has held up for years and
years under my abuse!
i don't have one on my trailer jack
m

Sorry, I am not buying it. B Why, you may ask? Well, he provides
absolutley no data, no methodology to test B or anything other than trust
me. Just because he says B it is so. B Well, he has to show me the math
and physics involved. B He talks of no torsional inputs from the prop,
but looking at his cowling arrangement shows me that's baloney. Every
time a blade half goes from the horizintal and passing below the
radiator it has a torsioan; input that is different that the rest of the
propeller arc. B And teh belt is way more than just a coupling stiffness
mechanism. How's that? well the teeth on the belt are teh shock
absorbers which give to reduce the harmonics. B  It is kind of like a
rubber torsional coupling for a boat or anything that needs drive shaft
shock absorbing, just on a smaller basis but more of them. B In teh case
of a ICE th eidea is to reduce crank harmonics and preven them from
getting into the cam causing valve train B errors. Not to mention spark
timing issues. So I am still on board with cam drive belt systems. Just
wish I could afford one, lol...

But I like his motor! That is the one on my Turbo Sprint! A screaming
993 cc of turbo terror......maybe......

mayf
Kirkwood wrote:

>Mayf's timely question has raised another issue. If one was to believe
>advertising you would think that a belt drive was a magic excelsior to
>dampen all the bad harmonics coupled to the cam. Not being an engineer it
>sounded like a plausible solution. However, as a technocrat suspicious of
>unsubstantiated advertising, I am always looking for good data proving the
>supposition. I am still neutral about belt drive claims. Testing and
>engineering analysis to prove belt-drive claims is non-trivial and
>expensive. In Experimental Aviation a belt-drive-prop-reduction-unit has
>always claimed, among other things, to be beneficial due to its dampening
>characteristics. B So, in absence of good data, it is refreshing to see an
>interesting article that appears to debunk the status quo.
>
>http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-10_beltdrive.asp
>
>
>
>Knowledge is horsepower. Too much is a good thing :-)
>_______________________________________________
>Land-speed at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net

From NT788 at comcast.net  Thu May 27 10:47:29 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:47:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Belt-Drives
In-Reply-To: <96DE694B52094C41914C6763F0D203C3@dim8100>
Message-ID: <1224039017.1916241274978849281.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Attention to and learning detail is what makes an engine work! I can put on
decals real good, and that's about it!

Jack

Mayf's timely question has raised another issue. If one was to believe
advertising you would think that a belt drive was a magic excelsior to
dampen all the bad harmonics coupled to the cam. Not being an engineer it
sounded like a plausible solution. However, as a technocrat suspicious of
unsubstantiated advertising, I am always looking for good data proving the
supposition. I am still neutral about belt drive claims. Testing and
engineering analysis to prove belt-drive claims is non-trivial and
expensive. In Experimental Aviation a belt-drive-prop-reduction-unit has
always claimed, among other things, to be beneficial due to its dampening
characteristics. B So, in absence of good data, it is refreshing to see an
interesting article that appears to debunk the status quo.

http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-10_beltdrive.asp

B 

Knowledge is horsepower. Too much is a good thing :-)
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net

From saltfever at comcast.net  Thu May 27 13:31:54 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:31:54 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Belt-Drives
In-Reply-To: <4BFDC23A.8060403@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <154B793E7C4842ED8229292B4A03E8C7@dim8100>

Well that is kind of the same story for the proponents of belt drive. No
data. I appreciated the article in that it made me really think of all the
inertias in the system and how they are coupled together. I am neutral about
claims from either side without data.

From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com]
Sorry, I am not buying it.  Why, you may ask? Well, he provides absolutley
no data, no methodology to test  or anything other than trust me. Just
because he says  it is so.  Well, he has to show me the math and physics
involved. Edit . . .

From jdincau at qnet.com  Thu May 27 14:02:48 2010
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:02:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cam Belt-Drives
In-Reply-To: <154B793E7C4842ED8229292B4A03E8C7@dim8100>
References: <154B793E7C4842ED8229292B4A03E8C7@dim8100>
Message-ID: <BADBFC42B23549299FCFF0656769859F@denpc>

I have no data just an observation. Engines purpose designed for racing and 
not handicapped by stock block rules all seem to use gear drives for all the 
accessories.
Jim 

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Thu May 27 21:55:26 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 23:55:26 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Streamliner nose
In-Reply-To: <007901cafe0d$cf63e1e0$4001a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <20100527235526.MVDI2.557061.imail@fed1rmwml40>

LOL   
---- Doug Odom <dlodom at att.net> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
>     I have been cutting patterens and making bucks for the new streamliner body. I really wanted to make the body out of aluminum but I was not sure my skill level was good enought. Most of the panels will not be to compound but the nose is. I could make the whole body out of fiberglass but that stuff is so much mess and you have to make the damn part 3 times. The plug, the mould and then the part. I figured I would start with the easiest panels in the back and work my way to the nose. Then I could alway make the nose out of composite materal.
> 
>  Last weekend there was a metal meet up in Santa Cruz. Now I have read about them and seen pictures so I thought I might go. Went with my son in law and a friend that does street rod work. We took the buck and some aluminum and hoped someone could give us some help. Well I got lucky and fell into a gold mine of information and help. Lazze and Ron Covell were there and Ron took a real interest in my project and stayed late, after 6pm Sunday to finish it up for me. There were 5 diffenent English wheels you could use andI learned things that I will use to tune mine up. Planishing hammers, shrinker/streicher, bead rollers, etc.If you ever have a chance to go to one of  these by all means do it.
> 
> So on the drive home we were talking about how we all got lucky and I had to start to laugh. Getting lucky sure has a different meaning when your 69 years old and coming back from a weekend than it used to. 
> 
> Doug Odom in big ditch

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu May 27 23:05:14 2010
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 01:05:14 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Streamliner nose
In-Reply-To: <20100527235526.MVDI2.557061.imail@fed1rmwml40>
References: <20100527235526.MVDI2.557061.imail@fed1rmwml40>
Message-ID: <713FEF79514E46518127C204ECB4A4CD@DaveSatellite>

Sounds like a perfect weekend.. I have a lincoln precision tig 275 a bunch 
or rods and supplies because i always wanted to know how to tig weld.. you 
got a meeting with a master at metal working and a problem solved!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
To: "Doug Odom" <dlodom at popmotorsports.com>; "landspeed" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Cc: "Doug Odom" <dlodom at att.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Streamliner nose


> LOL
> ---- Doug Odom <dlodom at att.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     I have been cutting patterens and making bucks for the new 
>> streamliner body. I really wanted to make the body out of aluminum but I 
>> was not sure my skill level was good enought. Most of the panels will not 
>> be to compound but the nose is. I could make the whole body out of 
>> fiberglass but that stuff is so much mess and you have to make the damn 
>> part 3 times. The plug, the mould and then the part. I figured I would 
>> start with the easiest panels in the back and work my way to the nose. 
>> Then I could alway make the nose out of composite materal.
>>
>>  Last weekend there was a metal meet up in Santa Cruz. Now I have read 
>> about them and seen pictures so I thought I might go. Went with my son in 
>> law and a friend that does street rod work. We took the buck and some 
>> aluminum and hoped someone could give us some help. Well I got lucky and 
>> fell into a gold mine of information and help. Lazze and Ron Covell were 
>> there and Ron took a real interest in my project and stayed late, after 
>> 6pm Sunday to finish it up for me. There were 5 diffenent English wheels 
>> you could use andI learned things that I will use to tune mine up. 
>> Planishing hammers, shrinker/streicher, bead rollers, etc.If you ever 
>> have a chance to go to one of  these by all means do it.
>>
>> So on the drive home we were talking about how we all got lucky and I had 
>> to start to laugh. Getting lucky sure has a different meaning when your 
>> 69 years old and coming back from a weekend than it used to.
>>
>> Doug Odom in big ditch
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/ddahlgren at snet.net 

From v4gmr at yahoo.com  Fri May 28 11:04:48 2010
From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:04:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Streamliner nose
In-Reply-To: <20100527235526.MVDI2.557061.imail@fed1rmwml40>
Message-ID: <638844.29529.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Ron Covell's first big project is what is now my roadster. Shows that his work will last.

From saltfevr at q.com  Fri May 28 21:26:18 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 21:26:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Memorial Day Thanks
Message-ID: <SNT126-W54BC65A2DEFF48E6EFB218C9EC0@phx.gbl>

Thanks to all that have served and those that are! Please be safe this
weekend, and remember to fly your flag with family and friends. Enjoy this
short video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2RwRi2TjA0

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sat May 29 07:04:38 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 9:04:38 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Memorial Day
Message-ID: <20100529090438.XBE90.331133.imail@fed1rmwml28>

Lets all take a moment to say THANKS & REMEMBER all who served to found and protect our great REPUBLIC.  

I also encourage you all to honor their service by getting involved with your labor and money to promote, &  protect the freedoms that we are so evidently taking for granted. We are being intentionally bankrupted as a Nation in the name of taking care of the less fortunate.

WmTS

Constitutionally Incapable of Capitulation

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun May 30 16:31:45 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 15:31:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed!
Message-ID: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com>

Ok, so I have an associate here in Pahrump, who shall remain nameless to 
protect the guilty, who has a 3 year old Dell that has Vista 64 bit 
installed on it.  Unfortunately he never updated or bought the antivirus 
or even updated the OS during that time. And in the process it may have 
as many as 15 trojans and worms and other nasty little bastards.  
because now, it will not let any  *.exe run, nor *.com, not anything. It 
will not access the dvd drive, not will i tpopulate the control panel. I 
even tried to format it but it would not let that run either.   The 
software apopears like an aftermarket buy me web site and has all the 
good stuff like a normal web site. However, he even tried to pay to let 
it activate (that was a dumb sh*t move in my opinion) and that would not 
take either. Cannot download any updates from MicroSoft such as Defender 
or the malicious software removal tools.  My son just hit me with an 
idea though and that was to turn it off, then restart and go to the BIOS 
and tell it to start from a dvd. I don't have thet either but he does 
have a dell reinstallation disk for installed software so we could if 
needed and can actually do it, reformat the drive.  This is why I use 
Win XP Pro, lol....

Any suggestions?   It  needs help!  Could the drive be removed and set 
up as a slave and then reformatted that way?


help!!!!

mayf

From mark at bradakis.com  Sun May 30 16:49:13 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 16:49:13 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed!
In-Reply-To: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com>
References: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4C02EB69.90300@bradakis.com>

> Any suggestions?   

Lose that god awful, virus spewing garbage from Microsoft and run a real
operating system like Linux.

mjb.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun May 30 16:57:39 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 15:57:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed!
In-Reply-To: <4C02EB69.90300@bradakis.com>
References: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com> <4C02EB69.90300@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <4C02ED63.8000202@mayfco.com>

I'll tell him. Thanks for the help.

mayf

Mark J Bradakis wrote:

>> Any suggestions?   
>
>
> Lose that god awful, virus spewing garbage from Microsoft and run a real
> operating system like Linux.
>
> mjb.

From mark at bradakis.com  Sun May 30 17:14:23 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 17:14:23 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed!
In-Reply-To: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com>
References: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4C02F14F.6070107@bradakis.com>

>   he does have a dell reinstallation disk for installed software so we 
> could if needed and can actually do it, reformat the drive.
In spite of my previous retort I do have some experience with Windows.
The Dell disk may have a rescue mode option that will let you boot up
a minimal operating system.  Then you can go in and clean up the stuff
on the Vista drive by hand, or just start all over with a reformat and fresh
install.  Hopefully he won't lose too many files, though it sounds like
there is a good chance it will all be gone.

mjb.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun May 30 17:28:29 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 16:28:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed!
In-Reply-To: <4C02F14F.6070107@bradakis.com>
References: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com>
  <4C02F14F.6070107@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <4C02F49D.1010606@mayfco.com>

I did download the removal instructions so I am that far ahead. Now if I 
can somehow get to the bios so that I can start up on the dell disk.  If 
I can get the task manager operating I can kill the two pieces that keep 
it popping up and then go after the individual files and remove them.  
This particular virus/trojan/malware is awful. I have never seen one do 
cause so much trouble...

Thanks for sure on this help..

mayf
Mark J Bradakis wrote:

>>   he does have a dell reinstallation disk for installed software so 
>> we could if needed and can actually do it, reformat the drive.
>
> In spite of my previous retort I do have some experience with Windows.
> The Dell disk may have a rescue mode option that will let you boot up
> a minimal operating system.  Then you can go in and clean up the stuff
> on the Vista drive by hand, or just start all over with a reformat and 
> fresh
> install.  Hopefully he won't lose too many files, though it sounds like
> there is a good chance it will all be gone.
>
> mjb.
> _

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun May 30 19:14:57 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 18:14:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed! (non-LSR)
References: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com> 
	<4C02F14F.6070107@bradakis.com> <4C02F49D.1010606@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <F30E8DEB3AAA41EF80B8DA4D7F4CF733@edc2750afa5a84>

Mayf -- Tell you friend: Get rid of the hard drive.  There's no practical 
way to reformat. New ones, either IDE or SATA, cost around $75.  Then reload 
everything including going to Microsoft for the updates.
The Norton Security suite is a good deal. Costs about $50 a year and does 
everything in the background if you go with the default settings.
Also get an external USB drive that is setup to automatically backup 
everything.  Better still subscribe to an internet backup service if you've 
got broadband.  Costs like $5.00 a month.  So for a little over $100 a year 
you buy insurance for your software files and maybe even your identity.
Look at it this way.  You buy insurance for your car, don't you?  Sure if 
you lived 50 miles out at the end of some desert road and never drove into 
town you wouldn't buy car insurance.  But would you really want to drive 
around Las Vegas without it?
Computers are the same way.  As soon as you hook up to the Internet you've 
come to the big city and best become street smart or sooner or later you're 
going to be eaten alive.
Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed! 

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sun May 30 20:29:07 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 22:29:07 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed!
In-Reply-To: <4C02F14F.6070107@bradakis.com>
References: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com>
  <4C02F14F.6070107@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <6E58C49F93984F3EA31CADB6B2F9BB49@Dell4400>

IF it is like XP .
Boot the machine, BUT as soon as the startup check is done BUT BEFORE the OS 
starts., start pressing the F-8 key.
IF you get it fast enough the operating system SHOULD offer to let you go 
into SAFE MODE,
Once you get to safe mode , you can start your cleaning...

 AFTER you clean, make sure you turn OFF "system restore",   after you are 
sure its cleaned and the MS Essentials
 program  is loaded  ( it replaced MS Defender, Defender is no longer 
supported.)
You can turn system restore back on..

You can get "Essentials" from the MS download page.  its free to verified 
Windoze OS ..

and Yes there are better OS, out there,  but how many support EVERY 
application you may  want to run ?



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 7:14 PM
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed!

>>   he does have a dell reinstallation disk for installed software so we 
>> could if needed and can actually do it, reformat the drive.
> In spite of my previous retort I do have some experience with Windows.
> The Dell disk may have a rescue mode option that will let you boot up
> a minimal operating system.  Then you can go in and clean up the stuff
> on the Vista drive by hand, or just start all over with a reformat and 
> fresh
> install.  Hopefully he won't lose too many files, though it sounds like
> there is a good chance it will all be gone.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun May 30 22:06:10 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 21:06:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] !(non-LSR)Windows Vista 64 Help Needed
References: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com> <4C02F14F.6070107@bradakis.com>
	<6E58C49F93984F3EA31CADB6B2F9BB49@Dell4400>
Message-ID: <5F59B259663B400A8D7679D2CCFB4A56@edc2750afa5a84>

John -- We run XP Professional and have experienced crashes that even 
immobilized "safe mode" and kept it that way after several successive 
attempts to start.  And these were simply the result of a human error of 
some kind when trying to load common software and picking the wrong 
interpretation of poorly written instructions.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Szalay" <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed!
> IF it is like XP .
> Boot the machine, BUT as soon as the startup check is done BUT BEFORE the 
> OS starts., start pressing the F-8 key.
> IF you get it fast enough the operating system SHOULD offer to let you go 
> into SAFE MODE,
> Once you get to safe mode , you can start your cleaning... AFTER you 
> clean, make sure you turn OFF "system restore",   after you are sure its 
> cleaned and the MS Essentials
> program  is loaded  ( it replaced MS Defender, Defender is no longer 
> supported.)
> You can turn system restore back on.. You can get "Essentials" from the MS 
> download page.  its free to verified Windoze OS ..
> and Yes there are better OS, out there,  but how many support EVERY 
> application you may  want to run ?

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon May 31 07:36:21 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 07:36:21 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR, Wendover Hanger saved
Message-ID: <0B3D41A7-96C6-439F-802A-B7D4AC547725@comcast.net>

For the first few years the barracks at the Wendover  Airport were "The Bend
in the Road" for racers.  You could hear engines running at various spots most
of the night as racers worked on their cars.  Most of the buildings are gone
now along with the 15,000 troops stationed at the base.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon May 31 07:47:29 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 07:47:29 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR, Wendover
Message-ID: <A8EA69F7-D74C-49BE-A67E-BB89741F93E1@comcast.net>

More Wendover from today's newspaper:

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon May 31 08:15:41 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 08:15:41 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd:  Non LSR, Wendover
References: <A8EA69F7-D74C-49BE-A67E-BB89741F93E1@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C6218C78-7303-4F32-AD72-2E40B4193BA0@comcast.net>

Ooops!  Here's the article.

Thanks Glen!

Begin forwarded message:

>
>
> More Wendover from today's newspaper:

   http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700036465/Wendover-the-middle-of-nowher
e.html

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Mon May 31 11:04:38 2010
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 10:04:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance
In-Reply-To: <20100511235242.0679B18763F@autox.team.net>
References: <06573D7DAA8F48259A1E60E00BFBE28E@john>
	<20100511235242.0679B18763F@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <4C03EC26.4000402@wildblue.net>

The closer you can get to 100% oil, the better your results will be.
Excessive oil pressure just soaks up HP and heats the oil.

Bryan



Skip Higginbotham wrote:
> More important than clearances is oil volume. If you run a dry sump 
> system, you're fine. But if you run a wet sump, be sure to have at 
> least 12 quarts of oil or one of the newer blocks that have priority 
> oiling. I have not so good experience...........
> On the subject of clearance, with lower viscosity oil, reduce bearing 
> clearances. And piston skirt clearances. Depending on how light the 
> oil is, 2 to 3 thou on the rods and 3 to 4 thou on the mains. At least 
> 50 psi oil pressure and even better, 10 psi for each hundred HP. Doug 
> Odom is a good source of info on engine lower ends.
>
> It matters little the brand of engine....bearings are bearings.
>
> Good luck,
> Skip
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 07:40 PM 5/10/2010, John Burk wrote:
>> BBC
>>
>>> John, 427 what? Chevy? Ford?  If tiz chevy and a stroked small block 
>>> then excuse the ring, lol.... I know nothing about them ch*vy 
>>> critters...
>>>
>>> mayf
>>> John Burk wrote:
>>>
>>>> For a 427 stroke , 7500 rpm and the lighter oil everybody uses what 
>>>> sort of
>>>> bearing clearance works at Bonneville .
>>>>
>>>> John Burk
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/b.a.savage at wildblue.net

From gary_ellen at msn.com  Mon May 31 11:14:54 2010
From: gary_ellen at msn.com (Ellen Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 11:14:54 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed!
In-Reply-To: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com>
References: <4C02E751.7000301@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <SNT135-ds218CCA673B49862644884BF9EE0@phx.gbl>

Mayf
How important are the files on the affected hard drive? How much room is left
on the hard drive?
Easy expensive solution, take computer to computer repair shop, they will plug
it into their network or remove the hard drive hook it another computer run a
virus/malware scan remove problems, install antivirus software charge money
and your buddy is back in business.
If the files are not important not too expensive solution, replace hard drive,
use recovery disk to reinstall OS, drivers and software.  Recovery disk does
have OS right?
Gary
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: drmayf<mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com>
  To: LSR<mailto:land-speed at autox.team.net> ;
tweecer at yahoogroups.com<mailto:tweecer at yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 4:31 PM
  Subject: [Land-speed] Windows Vista 64 Help Needed!


  Ok, so I have an associate here in Pahrump, who shall remain nameless to
  protect the guilty, who has a 3 year old Dell that has Vista 64 bit
  installed on it.  Unfortunately he never updated or bought the antivirus
  or even updated the OS during that time. And in the process it may have
  as many as 15 trojans and worms and other nasty little bastards.
  because now, it will not let any  *.exe run, nor *.com, not anything. It
  will not access the dvd drive, not will i tpopulate the control panel. I
  even tried to format it but it would not let that run either.   The
  software apopears like an aftermarket buy me web site and has all the
  good stuff like a normal web site. However, he even tried to pay to let
  it activate (that was a dumb sh*t move in my opinion) and that would not
  take either. Cannot download any updates from MicroSoft such as Defender
  or the malicious software removal tools.  My son just hit me with an
  idea though and that was to turn it off, then restart and go to the BIOS
  and tell it to start from a dvd. I don't have thet either but he does
  have a dell reinstallation disk for installed software so we could if
  needed and can actually do it, reformat the drive.  This is why I use
  Win XP Pro, lol....

  Any suggestions?   It  needs help!  Could the drive be removed and set
  up as a slave and then reformatted that way?


  help!!!!

  mayf
  _______________________________________________
  Land-speed at autox.team.net<mailto:Land-speed at autox.team.net>
  Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
  Archive: http://www.team.net/archive<http://www.team.net/archive>
  Forums: http://www.team.net/forums<http://www.team.net/forums>
  Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/gary_ellen at msn.com<http://au
tox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/gary_ellen at msn.com>

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Mon May 31 11:26:22 2010
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 13:26:22 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance
In-Reply-To: <4C03EC26.4000402@wildblue.net>
References: <06573D7DAA8F48259A1E60E00BFBE28E@john><20100511235242.0679B18763F@autox.team.net>
	<4C03EC26.4000402@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <1BFC177F84EE45CAAC9DD0A2C0CDD8DF@DaveSatellite>

With all due respect I think bearing width diameter and surface speed all 
matter to clearance and oil..
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
Cc: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance


> The closer you can get to 100% oil, the better your results will be.
> Excessive oil pressure just soaks up HP and heats the oil.
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
> Skip Higginbotham wrote:
>> More important than clearances is oil volume. If you run a dry sump 
>> system, you're fine. But if you run a wet sump, be sure to have at least 
>> 12 quarts of oil or one of the newer blocks that have priority oiling. I 
>> have not so good experience...........
>> On the subject of clearance, with lower viscosity oil, reduce bearing 
>> clearances. And piston skirt clearances. Depending on how light the oil 
>> is, 2 to 3 thou on the rods and 3 to 4 thou on the mains. At least 50 psi 
>> oil pressure and even better, 10 psi for each hundred HP. Doug Odom is a 
>> good source of info on engine lower ends.
>>
>> It matters little the brand of engine....bearings are bearings.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Skip

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon May 31 13:43:34 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 12:43:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance
In-Reply-To: <1BFC177F84EE45CAAC9DD0A2C0CDD8DF@DaveSatellite>
References: <06573D7DAA8F48259A1E60E00BFBE28E@john><20100511235242.0679B18763F@autox.team.net><4C03EC26.4000402@wildblue.net>
	<1BFC177F84EE45CAAC9DD0A2C0CDD8DF@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <4EEB62DDDAC54A25902F27F19F1209BA@tiger>

I think you're right Dave. I'd check with the bearing manufacturer for his 
recommendations.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 10:26 AM
To: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>; "Skip Higginbotham" 
<saltrat at pahrump.com>
Cc: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance

> With all due respect I think bearing width diameter and surface speed all 
> matter to clearance and oil..
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
> To: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
> Cc: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bearing clearance
>
>
>> The closer you can get to 100% oil, the better your results will be.
>> Excessive oil pressure just soaks up HP and heats the oil.
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>>
>> Skip Higginbotham wrote:
>>> More important than clearances is oil volume. If you run a dry sump 
>>> system, you're fine. But if you run a wet sump, be sure to have at least 
>>> 12 quarts of oil or one of the newer blocks that have priority oiling. I 
>>> have not so good experience...........
>>> On the subject of clearance, with lower viscosity oil, reduce bearing 
>>> clearances. And piston skirt clearances. Depending on how light the oil 
>>> is, 2 to 3 thou on the rods and 3 to 4 thou on the mains. At least 50 
>>> psi oil pressure and even better, 10 psi for each hundred HP. Doug Odom 
>>> is a good source of info on engine lower ends.
>>>
>>> It matters little the brand of engine....bearings are bearings.
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>> Skip