From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Mar  1 06:13:57 2010
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 06:13:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] radical mormons or anything else
In-Reply-To: <4B8B4526.6070705@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05AACC42@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>

Landspeed only is my vote.

If you want the whole rant, please send your request on the back of a
$100 bill to:

Box 2161
Durango, CO  81302

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Mar  1 14:44:05 2010
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (Joe & Lynne Lance)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:44:05 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR But Funny
Message-ID: <193C2A26CA8D4A15923B7E6FD790A706@josephb4d4bd9f>

Subject: Hitler's Car is Stolen


http://tinyurl.com/y9psb7s

From rbuck at xmission.com  Mon Mar  1 21:22:16 2010
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:22:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] radical mormons
In-Reply-To: <20100301183032.004FA95EC7@queen.med.jhmi.edu>
References: <20100301183032.004FA95EC7@queen.med.jhmi.edu>
Message-ID: <4B8C9278.8090403@xmission.com>

I was being sarcastic.  I have no desire whatsoever to engage in any 
religious discussion, especially since it's so far off-topic 
that...well, I hope Mark sees fit to ban you from the list.

RtR

Sent from my Dreadnought using that gawdawful Thunderbird email program


On 3/1/2010 11:35 AM, proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
> On 28 Feb, Ray Buck wrote:
>    
>> Now this is interesting!
>>      
> Very happy that you found it interesting.  If you would like to discuss
> any aspect of The Radical Mormon, please feel free to contact me.
>
> Regards,
> proclus
> http://www.gnu-darwin.org/

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Mar  2 12:23:41 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:23:41 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] bad spell check
In-Reply-To: <4B8C9278.8090403@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <20100302142341.S6M6A.900972.imail@fed1rmwml38>

RtR,,,  it must have been a miss spelling --- one to many m     

---- Ray Buck <rbuck at xmission.com> wrote: 
> I was being sarcastic.  I have no desire whatsoever to engage in any 
> religious discussion, especially since it's so far off-topic 
> that...well, I hope Mark sees fit to ban you from the list.
> 
> RtR

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Mar  3 11:37:41 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:37:41 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] bad spell check
In-Reply-To: <20100302142341.S6M6A.900972.imail@fed1rmwml38>
References: <4B8C9278.8090403@xmission.com>
	<20100302142341.S6M6A.900972.imail@fed1rmwml38>
Message-ID: <20100303183810.EADFB187647@autox.team.net>

Dang!!! I'm slow this week.....good one Bill.

Skip






At 11:23 AM 3/2/2010, sparky.2211 at cox.net wrote:
>RtR,,,  it must have been a miss spelling --- one to many m
>
>---- Ray Buck <rbuck at xmission.com> wrote:
> > I was being sarcastic.  I have no desire whatsoever to engage in any
> > religious discussion, especially since it's so far off-topic
> > that...well, I hope Mark sees fit to ban you from the list.
> >
> > RtR

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Mar  3 11:38:24 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:38:24 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] bad spell check
Message-ID: <20100303183910.28F1B187647@autox.team.net>

Dang!!! I'm slow this week.....good one Bill.

Skip






At 11:23 AM 3/2/2010, sparky.2211 at cox.net wrote:
>RtR,,,  it must have been a miss spelling --- one to many m
>
>---- Ray Buck <rbuck at xmission.com> wrote:
> > I was being sarcastic.  I have no desire whatsoever to engage in any
> > religious discussion, especially since it's so far off-topic
> > that...well, I hope Mark sees fit to ban you from the list.
> >
> > RtR

From dlodom at charter.net  Wed Mar  3 13:05:16 2010
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 12:05:16 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Gas Up Heads Up
Message-ID: <043301cabb0c$d976e590$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Just a heads up...........This years gas up Hall of fame is going to be moved
to next year on the last Sat. of April or the first Sat. of May. We were
losing too many people that could not come the last Sat. of Sept. Because of
the Bub meet and Cooks shoot out running into the last of the month. The Gold
Coast had many meetings and finally came to the realization that the best time
was before the season starts. This also means the club members will not have
to be thrashing on their cars and working on getting the Gas Up ready.

Doug in big ditch
ps Glen, I have your gas up program from last year.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Mar  3 15:35:35 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:35:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR - projects for your "free" time
Message-ID: <243F2872-2096-4428-8708-D87A945D5CD1@comcast.net>

You can spend a lot of time checking out the neat projects in this magazine.

http://makezine.com/projects/

Wes

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Mar  3 16:25:59 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 18:25:59 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] bad spell check
In-Reply-To: <20100303183910.28F1B187647@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20100303182559.X7BFY.961831.imail@fed1rmwml35>

So far it apears you are the only one who got it!!!!!!!!!

From mark at bradakis.com  Wed Mar  3 17:00:52 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:00:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] bad spell check
In-Reply-To: <20100303182559.X7BFY.961831.imail@fed1rmwml35>
References: <20100303182559.X7BFY.961831.imail@fed1rmwml35>
Message-ID: <4B8EF834.9080808@bradakis.com>

Having lived in Utah all these years and not being a Morman I do
sometimes feel like a moron.

mjb.

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Mar  3 21:27:42 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 23:27:42 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] bad spell check
In-Reply-To: <4B8EF834.9080808@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <20100303232743.3V1EN.917977.imail@fed1rmwml34>

LOL
---- Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com> wrote: 
> Having lived in Utah all these years and not being a Morman I do
> sometimes feel like a moron.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Mar  4 02:35:56 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 02:35:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] bad spell check
In-Reply-To: <20100303232743.3V1EN.917977.imail@fed1rmwml34>
References: <20100303232743.3V1EN.917977.imail@fed1rmwml34>
Message-ID: <B33DF552-5DA2-4E40-8426-03970F70B4F7@comcast.net>

Would the fact that the word is properly spelled Mormon add to your
discomfort?

On Mar 3, 2010, at 9:27 PM, <sparky.2211 at cox.net> <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
wrote:

> LOL
> ---- Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com> wrote:
>> Having lived in Utah all these years and not being a Morman I do
>> sometimes feel like a moron.
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/wester6935 at comcast.net

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Thu Mar  4 08:58:49 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:58:49 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo archives
In-Reply-To: <243F2872-2096-4428-8708-D87A945D5CD1@comcast.net>
References: <243F2872-2096-4428-8708-D87A945D5CD1@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00AE89DF62C4471998734C25F0231FC7@Dell4400>

Life magazine photo archives has been placed on the net. through Google. 
there are some good photos of some salt flats
activity. including a good detailed photo of Rolly Free  there also a large 
series of 1937 photos of  Capt. Eyston & Thunderbolt

I went to the archives and used salt flats as the search word..  MANY photos 
are misplaced or misnamed so look around..


Rolly Free
Large version but with LIFE watermark

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26start%3D100%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=76ac649ec4b22f75


Smaller version without LIFE watermark

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=76ac649ec4b22f75&q=salt%20flats%20source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26start%3D100%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1

another view small

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=c9fff13d81de729f&q=Roland%20Free%20source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRoland%2BFree%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1

another view large with watermark

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Roland+Free+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRoland%2BFree%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=c9fff13d81de729f

another small

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=Roland+Free+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRoland%2BFree%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=b4aebf00ade52a28

another large

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Roland+Free+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRoland%2BFree%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=b4aebf00ade52a28

interview photo

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=Roland+Free+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRoland%2BFree%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=937736a84e79dc32


Capt. Eyston & Thunderbolt 1937

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&sa=1&q=+Capt.+Eyston+%26+Thunderbolt+source:life&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0 

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Thu Mar  4 11:34:52 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:34:52 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
 archives
Message-ID: <23939624.1267727692853.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I like the sign that says the "Salt is 4 Feet thick"..........

>
>I went to the archives and used salt flats as the search word..  MANY photos 
>are misplaced or misnamed so look around..

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Mar  4 14:12:58 2010
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:12:58 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Members
Message-ID: <20100304211321.C93AD18764B@autox.team.net>

Hello Mark,
How many members are now on the landspeed list? It is a wonderful 
resource and help comes from all directions when requested.
Thanks,
Skip

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Mar  4 09:28:55 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:28:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
	archives
In-Reply-To: <00AE89DF62C4471998734C25F0231FC7@Dell4400>
References: <243F2872-2096-4428-8708-D87A945D5CD1@comcast.net>
	<00AE89DF62C4471998734C25F0231FC7@Dell4400>
Message-ID: <7F4992F1-71DE-457A-81EF-A9D9EAEEA770@comcast.net>

The interview photo, second from the bottom, is Rollie Free and Ab Jenkins of
Mormon Meteor fame.  The morning Free set the record was September 13, 1948.
Those of you who have been on the salt, early on a "September Morn" know how
chilly it can be before the sun gets high enough to warm things.  Free
describes himself as being "blue with the cold" after his two runs.  His
150.313 average was an impressive benchmark.  Joe Petralli had set the record
Free broke on a Harley in 1937.  Petralli's son is the FIA representative who
has been at the Cook Shootout the last few years.  John Price, the current
owner of the Mormon Meteor has a movie that is due out in the next year or so
about the car, Jenkins, the Duesenberg brothers and the hundred or so records
Ab set with the car.  It should be interesting.

Wes

On Mar 4, 2010, at 8:58 AM, John Szalay wrote:

> Life magazine photo archives has been placed on the net. through Google.
there are some good photos of some salt flats
> activity. including a good detailed photo of Rolly Free  there also a large
series of 1937 photos of  Capt. Eyston & Thunderbolt
>
> I went to the archives and used salt flats as the search word..  MANY photos
are misplaced or misnamed so look around..
>
>
> Rolly Free
> Large version but with LIFE watermark
>
>
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%
3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26start%3D100%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26
ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=76ac649ec4b22f75
>
>
> Smaller version without LIFE watermark
>
>
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=76ac649ec4b22f75&q=salt%20flats
%20source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26start%3D100%26
um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1
>
> another view small
>
>
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=c9fff13d81de729f&q=Roland%20Fre
e%20source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRoland%2BFree%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tb
s%3Disch:1
>
> another view large with watermark
>
>
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Roland+Free+source:life&prev=/images
%3Fq%3DRoland%2BFree%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=c9fff13d81
de729f
>
> another small
>
>
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=Roland+Free+source:life&prev=/images
%3Fq%3DRoland%2BFree%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=b4aebf00ad
e52a28
>
> another large
>
>
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Roland+Free+source:life&prev=/images
%3Fq%3DRoland%2BFree%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=b4aebf00ad
e52a28
>
> interview photo
>
>
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=Roland+Free+source:life&prev=/images
%3Fq%3DRoland%2BFree%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=937736a84e
79dc32
>
>
> Capt. Eyston & Thunderbolt 1937
>
>
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&sa=1&q=+Capt.+Eyston+%2
6+Thunderbolt+source:life&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0
_______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/wester6935 at comcast.net

From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Mar  4 17:18:30 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:18:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Members
In-Reply-To: <20100304211321.C93AD18764B@autox.team.net>
References: <20100304211321.C93AD18764B@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <4B904DD6.2090908@bradakis.com>

Land-speed, one of about 60 lists I manage, has a current subscriber count
of just under 200, 196 I think.  So about 1.5% of the total Team.Net
membership.  I've not counted how many messages per month and
such other statistics for a while.

I do know that when I mentioned that folks could post pictures of themselves
and their cars at http://www.team.net/forums only *1* photo showed up.
The Triumph folks have been pretty busy.  If you want to put a face to
my name, check out the first picture at

http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27


mjb.

From atrav at copper.net  Thu Mar  4 19:10:41 2010
From: atrav at copper.net (atrav)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 21:10:41 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
 archives
References: <243F2872-2096-4428-8708-D87A945D5CD1@comcast.net>
	<00AE89DF62C4471998734C25F0231FC7@Dell4400>
Message-ID: <2818E17DAA0E400B9174B42B4A973945@janeh4d5yz2mne>

What's going on in this picture, I can't figure it out, duh.
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Capt.+Eyston+&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCapt.%2BEyston%2B%2526%2BThunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=a6e1a7f299b7a5da
-Aron-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Szalay" <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>


> Life magazine photo archives has been placed on the net. through Google. there are some good 
> photos of some salt flats
> activity. including a good detailed photo of Rolly Free  there also a large series of 1937 photos 
> of  Capt. Eyston & Thunderbolt

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Thu Mar  4 19:24:32 2010
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 21:24:32 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
 archives
In-Reply-To: <2818E17DAA0E400B9174B42B4A973945@janeh4d5yz2mne>
References: <243F2872-2096-4428-8708-D87A945D5CD1@comcast.net>
	<00AE89DF62C4471998734C25F0231FC7@Dell4400>
	<2818E17DAA0E400B9174B42B4A973945@janeh4d5yz2mne>
Message-ID: <8D1F1651-DBE7-44AA-A0F7-7D5C8F9320A3@nancyandjon.org>

On Mar 4, 2010, at 9:10 PM, atrav wrote:

What's going on in this picture, I can't figure it out, duh.
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Capt.+Eyston+&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCap
t.%2BEyston%2B%2526%2BThunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%2
6tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=a6e1a7f299b7a5da
-Aron-


Aron, I'm stumped, too.  Maybe someone old will tell us.  Or maybe someone
like Ron Christensen, who grew up in Wendover, will answer.  I'll forward the
link to him (he's not on this list).

      Jon Wennerberg
Tall guy with moustache
and a pair of 2 Club hats

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Fri Mar  5 08:29:25 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:29:25 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
 archives
In-Reply-To: <2818E17DAA0E400B9174B42B4A973945@janeh4d5yz2mne>
References: <243F2872-2096-4428-8708-D87A945D5CD1@comcast.net>
	<00AE89DF62C4471998734C25F0231FC7@Dell4400>
	<2818E17DAA0E400B9174B42B4A973945@janeh4d5yz2mne>
Message-ID: <32324E8A684A478090B5EBAA5E5C660B@Dell4400>

> What's going on in this picture, I can't figure it out, duh.
> -Aron-
>
>


Havent figured it out myself, there are several more of the same activity, 
what ever it is.
the more I look at those photos, I'm thinking perhaps it's a crude low 
volume salt brine pumping device
and the wheels/tires with the ramps are just a means of centering or 
leveling the pipe.

There are MANY mislabeled or misplace photos in the achive, and I.m 
wondering if this may be a set of those
that the photographer took WHILE he was covering the LSR attempt..



http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=thunderbolt+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=09208e01fe620f9d


Here it looks like a pipe going through the center of the wheels.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=thunderbolt+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=f708db1789f15e8f

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=thunderbolt+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=5cad0a3e9de262c2

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=thunderbolt+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=a20f4b9a73575bf6

and I'm pretty sure that its got something to do with this device ,

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=thunderbolt+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=978335d44b998eae 

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Mar  5 09:04:34 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 08:04:34 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
 archives
Message-ID: <BB07EFFFB940456C8C52A7F7BB839116@edc2750afa5a84>

FWD to list
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "23weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "atrav" <atrav at copper.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo 
archives


> Aron -- Looks to me like an early and no doubt unsuccessful effort to 
> level or more likely mark a course of some kind or maybe just an access 
> road. Another possibility is a somewhat portable or at least moveable 
> scheme to bring either a water pipeline or an electric conduit across an 
> area of briny salt.
> Ed Weldon

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "atrav" <atrav at copper.net>
> To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo 
> archives
>> What's going on in this picture, I can't figure it out, duh.
>> http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Capt.+Eyston+&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCapt.%2BEyston%2B%2526%2BThunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=a6e1a7f299b7a5da
>> -Aron-

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Fri Mar  5 11:53:05 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 13:53:05 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
 archives
In-Reply-To: <7F4992F1-71DE-457A-81EF-A9D9EAEEA770@comcast.net>
References: <243F2872-2096-4428-8708-D87A945D5CD1@comcast.net>
	<00AE89DF62C4471998734C25F0231FC7@Dell4400>
	<7F4992F1-71DE-457A-81EF-A9D9EAEEA770@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1DE868A014FE46BCA6FF1CDE20E2287E@Dell4400>

another interesting set of salt flats photos  appears to several different

the one car on the salt may be Capt Eyston's "Speed of the wind" endurance 
car  (zippy lizard)
                           REF: Ann Noeth's book

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=15f5b6d20a8a18b0

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=28b423d77dea50b7

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=c17782085183aa95

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=4e8009eddddc08d3

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=9ad69539790de23d

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=256d2cffe065b3b1

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=bf3f86acadb2f35e

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=ac0e7cad0a9d52d5

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=9e65d453b5626d6f

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=ac793eba46eea031

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=a8be25aeb6b58831

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=salt+flats+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsalt%2Bflats%2Bsource:life%26start%3D40%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=0cebf0755c005c5d

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=bonnieville+utah++source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbonnieville%2Butah%2B%2Bsource:life%26start%3D40%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=6dd4f34d38b1ffe1 

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Mar  5 12:34:48 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 11:34:48 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
 archives
References: <243F2872-2096-4428-8708-D87A945D5CD1@comcast.net><00AE89DF62C4471998734C25F0231FC7@Dell4400><2818E17DAA0E400B9174B42B4A973945@janeh4d5yz2mne>
	<32324E8A684A478090B5EBAA5E5C660B@Dell4400>
Message-ID: <ABA85371941A4338A41B7A53D8D34FBF@edc2750afa5a84>

I'm thinking now this is what you do to clean the salt out of the wire 
wheels when you have plenty of help in the pit crew and a somewhat limited 
supply of fresh water.  Maybe there is a tank truck back there on high 
ground out of the picture at the end of the pipe.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Szalay" <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>
To: "atrav" <atrav at copper.net>; "LAND SPEED LIST" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo 
archives


>> What's going on in this picture, I can't figure it out, duh.
>> -Aron-

> Havent figured it out myself, there are several more of the same activity, 
> what ever it is.
> the more I look at those photos, I'm thinking perhaps it's a crude low 
> volume salt brine pumping device
> and the wheels/tires with the ramps are just a means of centering or 
> leveling the pipe.
> There are MANY mislabeled or misplace photos in the achive, and I.m 
> wondering if this may be a set of those
> that the photographer took WHILE he was covering the LSR attempt..

> http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=thunderbolt+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=09208e01fe620f9d
> Here it looks like a pipe going through the center of the wheels.
> http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=thunderbolt+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=f708db1789f15e8f
>
> http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=thunderbolt+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=5cad0a3e9de262c2
>
> http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=thunderbolt+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=a20f4b9a73575bf6
> and I'm pretty sure that its got something to do with this device ,
> http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=thunderbolt+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthunderbolt%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=978335d44b998eae

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Fri Mar  5 13:27:37 2010
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:27:37 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
 archives
Message-ID: <21224.1090a003.38c2c339@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2010 11:21:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
23.weldon at comcast.net writes:

>  Aron -- Looks to me like an early and no doubt unsuccessful effort to 
>  level or more likely mark a course of some kind or maybe just an access  
> road. Another possibility is a somewhat portable or at least moveable  
> scheme to bring either a water pipeline or an electric conduit across  an 
> area of briny salt.
> Ed Weldon


I agree, seems similar to the wheeled irrigation devices common to the  
western area of the US. Only in this app it removes water? IMHO FWIW 
Bob W 

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Fri Mar  5 13:45:06 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:45:06 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] misplaced LIFE LSR  photos
Message-ID: <EEDF28D9E4514842BE549B50D4225C3E@Dell4400>

Some examples of misplaced or mislabeled LSR photos

these appear to be photos of Thunderbolt  LSR car..  but they showed up under
the group of photos
about North Platte Neb..

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=Hansel+Mieth+1937+source:life&prev=/
images%3Fq%3DHansel%2BMieth%2B1937%2Bsource:life%26start%3D40%26hl%3Den%26sa%
3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=fe2cffa3d1d31bdc

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Hansel+Mieth+1937+source:life&prev=/
images%3Fq%3DHansel%2BMieth%2B1937%2Bsource:life%26start%3D40%26hl%3Den%26sa%
3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=69941694559a1b1e

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Hansel+Mieth+1937+source:life&prev=/
images%3Fq%3DHansel%2BMieth%2B1937%2Bsource:life%26start%3D40%26hl%3Den%26sa%
3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=18c05c5a8bde64cf

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Hansel+Mieth+1937+source:life&prev=/
images%3Fq%3DHansel%2BMieth%2B1937%2Bsource:life%26start%3D120%26hl%3Den%26sa
%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=0bbefbe531e0596a

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Mar  5 14:49:06 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 13:49:06 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
 archives
References: <21224.1090a003.38c2c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <809AB5C3E6F54E37BF9707127CA53BF4@edc2750afa5a84>

After seeing additional pics here's what I'm guessing they did when they
realized that they would have a hard time cleaning the salt cakes out of wire
wheels in their pit with a limited water supply and no easy way to pump it in
any volume even if they had the water available:
They found someone with a tank truck and a PTO driven centrifugal pump that
could maintain a constant head of water in the pipe.  They got a bunch of 10
foot lengths of 1" pipe each with a tee and a hose bib on the end and
preassembled them.  They parked the truck on a roadway next to one of the
commonplace brine ponds. These long lengths of pipe would put each cleaning
station far enough away from its neighbor to keep splashes localized.
Then they connected a hose from the truck to the first pipe, put a wheel in
place over the end of the pipe and connected the second pipe with the tee and
hose bib next to the wheel where a short length of hose could be directed on
the tire for the washing process.  Note the wood blocks to hold the wheel and
tire above the pile of salt that collected there.  And the pipe running
through the wheel hub hole would keep it from tipping over.
They would add pipes and wheels across the pond until all wheels were set up
to clean, then they would cap the end and turn on the pump at the truck.  To
conserve water they probably used the brine and brushes and scrapers to rough
the bulk of the salt off, finish with fresh water and then when everything was
done dismantle the whole thing and carry the wheels to the truck for transport
back to the pits.
Ed Weldon
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: BWANA343 at aol.com
  To: 23.weldon at comcast.net ; land-speed at autox.team.net
  Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 12:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: Good detail Rollie Free photo in Life photo
archives


  In a message dated 3/5/2010 11:21:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
23.weldon at comcast.net writes:
    > Aron -- Looks to me like an early and no doubt unsuccessful effort to
    > level or more likely mark a course of some kind or maybe just an access
    > road. Another possibility is a somewhat portable or at least moveable
    > scheme to bring either a water pipeline or an electric conduit across an
    > area of briny salt.
    > Ed Weldon
  I agree, seems similar to the wheeled irrigation devices common to the
western area of the US. Only in this app it removes water? IMHO FWIW
  Bob W

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Fri Mar  5 17:48:30 2010
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 19:48:30 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Ron Christensen's guess
References: <30115DA6CBA03C4F8BCA80653DA2A7101030BC@om.wsadamson.local>
Message-ID: <ED094B1A-247F-435A-B42D-61239A7B8473@nancyandjon.org>

Ron grew up in Wendover (although not born 'til the late 40s - early 50s).  I
asked him about the wheels connected with pipes -- and here's his response:

Begin forwarded message:

What a mystery!  Besides the wheels all hooked together there is a paddle
wheel of some sort and a device spraying water out in the middle of the pond.
Must be some sort of test operation being done by the potash company back
then.  I assume these were taken in 1937 like the Eyston photos.

His comments include other photos from the same spread.

      Jon Wennerberg
Tall guy with moustache
and a pair of 2 Club hats

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Mar  7 09:08:33 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 09:08:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map
Message-ID: <3E84E93CECF24E93AA41A812D928F28C@GlenPC>

Check this out, fullscreenweather.com

A great weather station with lots of neat options and pictures, street maps
etc. Log on and check out wendover, utah

It shows everything

Glen

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Mar  7 09:32:18 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 08:32:18 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
References: <43376.40292.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4828873AD9DE4109813CA924E0E9BDA9@edc2750afa5a84>

Bravo Giorgio Rizzoni !!  Finally someone who has the stature to be listened
to has raised this issue. (Note that his Ohio State University is the home of
the landspeed streamliner, the Buckeye Bullet.)   I suspected a software
connection to the Toyota acceleration problem from the gitgo.  But I'm just a
tiny ripple in the sea.
I'm not a software guy having been discouraged from this path very early in my
engineering career by some graduate school experiences.  I learned first hand
how quickly the design of even the simplest system can balloon out of
manageable size.  The time was 1971 and the course was Systems Psychology.
What really drove the issue home to me has been the experience in recent years
of Microsoft and their Windows and Internet Explorer software.  They are
arguably the world's best in their field.
What hubris caused Toyota to think they were enough better than Microsoft to
trust their software development skills for the control of machinery whose
failure can kill people?  Such an attitude of trust in the halls of Toyota
management was badly misplaced.
Maybe it is time for the entire auto industry to rethink the way they design
the control systems in modern vehicles toward the direction of manageable
complexity.  If that isn't possible then the industry needs to follow the
policy of redundancy used in the design of similar aircraft control systems
regardless of the development cost.
It's bad enough that vehicles kill people as a result of driver failure.  Such
catastrophic software failure is simply unacceptable.
Ed Weldon
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Joel Wolcott
  To: 23.weldon at comcast.net
  Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 5:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
mileage


  From Washington Post article about Toyota.



  Attention has been focused on mechanical and electronic issues with Toyotas,
but Rizzoni raised another possible cause of the runaway acceleration: a
software glitch.

  He explained that each vehicle contains "layers of computer code that may be
added from one model year to next" that control nearly every system, from
acceleration to braking to stability. Rizzoni said this software is rigorously
tested, but he added: "It is well-known in our community that there is no
scientific, firm way of actually completely verifying and validating
software."





  Giorgio Rizzoni of Ohio State University, an expert in failure analysis and
director of the school's Center for Automotive Research.


  - full article is here.


  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/06/AR201003060
2448_2.html?hpid=sec-business

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Mar  7 09:40:54 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 08:40:54 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map
References: <3E84E93CECF24E93AA41A812D928F28C@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <A7199500EDD94EAF8F5CC89CA3548B98@edc2750afa5a84>

Thanks, Glen.  That link has just gone into my bookmarks.
I've long had a special link set up for a detailed graphic forecast spotted 
on the end of the entrance road to the Salt flats.  But that takes more 
fiddling around than most of us want to bother with.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 8:08 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map
> Check this out, fullscreenweather.com
> A great weather station with lots of neat options and pictures, street 
> maps
> etc. Log on and check out wendover, utah
> It shows everything
> Glen

From ed at vetteracing.com  Sun Mar  7 11:52:09 2010
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 18:52:09 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map
Message-ID: <W8788123275309981267987929@webmail41>

The coolest weather site I've seen!!
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 7, 2010 09:08 AM
To: landspeed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map

Check this out, fullscreenweather.com A great weather station with lots of neat options and pictures, street maps etc. Log on and check out wendover, utah It shows everything Glen 

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun Mar  7 12:45:58 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:45:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map
In-Reply-To: <W8788123275309981267987929@webmail41>
References: <W8788123275309981267987929@webmail41>
Message-ID: <ADB3CB84D3254B1CB6D690384F22BCDF@tiger>

Me too!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:52 AM
To: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "landspeed at autox.team.net" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Weather map

> The coolest weather site I've seen!!
> Ed
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 7, 2010 09:08 AM
> To: landspeed at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map
>
> Check this out, fullscreenweather.com A great weather station with lots of 
> neat options and pictures, street maps etc. Log on and check out wendover, 
> utah It shows everything Glen
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/neil at dbelltech.com

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sun Mar  7 16:06:05 2010
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 18:06:05 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
Message-ID: <8f87e.b955985.38c58b5d@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/7/2010 11:58:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
23.weldon at comcast.net writes:

It's bad  enough that vehicles kill people as a result of driver failure.   
Such
catastrophic software failure is simply unacceptable.
Ed  Weldon



Ed, 
Thank you very much for sharing this info, to me it's the last piece of the 
 puzzle. Toyota obviously has the majority of responsibility in this  
situation, especially the part about trying to get the emphasis on floor  mats or 
anything to get the supposedly bad American drivers to share the blame. 
Considering Toyota's reputation up to this point, I imagine the geniuses in 
 management figured it would be easy to say Soccer Mom or Junior the new  
driver freaked out due to a bad rug or the like. 
The software deal rests 100% of the cause at the manufacturers feet. The  
only recourse left is to say it was the fault of the actual supplier that  
delivered the parts. 
Toyota reportedly has around 48 Billion in cash, so you can imagine all the 
 tort lawyers drooling at all the cases, of which they'll probably lose a 
lot  more as they've demonized themselves with this failed gambit. 
Reminds me of the "unintended Audis acceleration" of a long time ago, maybe 
 a real good time to check out any Toyota products, as the prices should be 
 advantaged for a long time. 
I love this list. Beats the crap out of hoping to find non biased info  on 
the medias. 
Bob W 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Mar  7 17:54:55 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:54:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Nascar
Message-ID: <5260469752E342A199334B4A3A4F7BD0@GlenPC>

I just saw on the news where a red car,maybe Budweiser was starting a spin and
as soon as it got backwards the wing spoiled the air to the roof flaps and it
flipped. It's the 2nd time I have seen this happen.
Glen

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Sun Mar  7 18:07:10 2010
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:07:10 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
References: <8f87e.b955985.38c58b5d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B944DBD.00002B.01060@HOME>

Bob & All,

Don't be too quick to place the blame on causes in this case. I am always am
suspicious when congress is enjoying grilling heads of corporations.  Having
investigated a number of stuck throttles, brake failures, lemon cases, etc.
for  attorneys and insurance companies that involving a number of different
manufacturers, I would be reluctant to make decisions on what the causes are
in this Toyota case since I have not investigated it myself. I do know that
driver error has been a major cause in these kinds of cases. It still
puzzles me why anyone should accelerate to a 100 mph plus when the ignition
switch turned off or shifting to neutral is still a choice. I do know that
it takes a couple of seconds to respond to an unexpected situation. I guess
people can just freeze too. I don't have an answer on this one!

Tom

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of stampa_girl_line_en.gif]

From ecpurinton at wildblue.net  Sun Mar  7 18:47:39 2010
From: ecpurinton at wildblue.net (Ed Purinton)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 20:47:39 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Nascar
In-Reply-To: <5260469752E342A199334B4A3A4F7BD0@GlenPC>
References: <5260469752E342A199334B4A3A4F7BD0@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <e5e0d8b41003071747k4731ef5fi33948ac365b0adbc@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't followed NA$CAR near as close the last few years as I used to but
happened to catch the end of the race today.  Following the incident one of
the comentators mentioned that removal of the wing has been under discussion
by the powers that be for that reason.  Will be interesting to see what
happens now.

                   Ed Purinton

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 7:54 PM, <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> wrote:

> I just saw on the news where a red car,maybe Budweiser was starting a spin
> and
> as soon as it got backwards the wing spoiled the air to the roof flaps and
> it
> flipped. It's the 2nd time I have seen this happen.
> Glen
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/ecpurinton at wildblue.net

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sun Mar  7 19:56:44 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 21:56:44 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Nascar
In-Reply-To: <e5e0d8b41003071747k4731ef5fi33948ac365b0adbc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5260469752E342A199334B4A3A4F7BD0@GlenPC>
	<e5e0d8b41003071747k4731ef5fi33948ac365b0adbc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0726111AE993428CB834BBD5366A4EBF@Dell4400>

 I normally  don't either , but I have been reading the NASCAR articles in 
the papers after
Danica Patrick joined the tour, more in the interest of seeing how the "good 
Ole Boys"
treat a female driver, plus the NASCAR officals have recently "relaxed: the 
rules of aggressive
driving, and lowered the rules on  bumping ETC:  the wing issue is next up, 
and I expect the
next thing will be the removing of the restrictor plates at certain tracks, 
in order to get there fan
ratings (and MONEY) back up..   never did like sports where bullying and 
intimidation is the
norm..



> I haven't followed NA$CAR near as close the last few years as I used to 
> but
> happened to catch the end of the race today.  Following the incident one 
> of
> the comentators mentioned that removal of the wing has been under 
> discussion
> by the powers that be for that reason.  Will be interesting to see what
> happens now.
>
>                   Ed Purinton
>
> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 7:54 PM, <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> wrote:
>
>> I just saw on the news where a red car,maybe Budweiser was starting a 
>> spin
>> and  as soon as it got backwards the wing spoiled the air to the roof 
>> flaps and
>> it  flipped. It's the 2nd time I have seen this happen.
>> Glen
>> _______ 

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Mar  7 20:07:40 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 20:07:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
In-Reply-To: <4B944DBD.00002B.01060@HOME>
References: <8f87e.b955985.38c58b5d@aol.com>
  <4B944DBD.00002B.01060@HOME>
Message-ID: <9BB6A25A-53DB-4BE9-A76A-C0C30E589BBB@comcast.net>

I had an interesting visit with an old friend who is a GM dealer and has a
Nissan franchise as well.  He mentioned that the Japanese makers put off
correcting problems until they blow up to big recalls.  They protect their
image at all costs until it is  too late to do anything but damage control.
GM just corrects problems as they arise and there isn't the big press about
the recalls as a result.  He claims it's very much an approach from different
cultures.  The extended description of the two approaches made for a
fascinating evening.  He came out of college as a nuclear chemist and was
rising through the ranks very rapidly in that field until family matters
required him to come home and take over the family dealership.  I respect the
analytical approach he brings to a problem and enjoy hearing his side of the
story.  What I miss are the shorter discussions about like matters in the past
that have usually been on a chair lift at Alta.

Wes

On Mar 7, 2010, at 6:07 PM, Tom Bryant wrote:

> Bob & All,
>
> Don't be too quick to place the blame on causes in this case. I am always
am
> suspicious when congress is enjoying grilling heads of corporations.
Having
> investigated a number of stuck throttles, brake failures, lemon cases, etc.
> for  attorneys and insurance companies that involving a number of different
> manufacturers, I would be reluctant to make decisions on what the causes
are
> in this Toyota case since I have not investigated it myself. I do know that
> driver error has been a major cause in these kinds of cases. It still
> puzzles me why anyone should accelerate to a 100 mph plus when the ignition
> switch turned off or shifting to neutral is still a choice. I do know that
> it takes a couple of seconds to respond to an unexpected situation. I guess
> people can just freeze too. I don't have an answer on this one!
>
> Tom
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
faint_grain.jpg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of
stampa_girl_line_en.gif]
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/wester6935 at comcast.net

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sun Mar  7 20:45:24 2010
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 22:45:24 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
Message-ID: <9c97c.52be8441.38c5ccd4@aol.com>

Tom,
 

I agree  with you on the driver input aspect, one of the more famous cases 
quotes the  female driver as driving for miles, applying the brakes, and 
never mentioning  considering turning off the engine or putting it in neutral. 
Between the media  defending the unprepared victim Vs the giant car 
companies, especially the  current most successful foreign company with the deepest 
pockets, your culture  point of view males a lot of sense. Considering the 
extremely ill timed  Toyota debacle, expect the congressional hearings to 
morph into an  inquisition, a big difference from domestic maker run of the 
mill hearings.  Jury cases are sympathetic with that previously mentioned 
little guy, too. If  you'd rather not buy a Toyota, buy GM stock, seriously. Ford 
alone is up 600%  from it's lows, 
Bob W


 


 
 

Bob & All,

Don't be too quick to place the blame  on causes in this case. I am always 
am
suspicious when congress is enjoying  grilling heads of corporations.  
Having
investigated a number of stuck  throttles, brake failures, lemon cases, etc.
for  attorneys and  insurance companies that involving a number of different
manufacturers, I  would be reluctant to make decisions on what the causes 
are
in this Toyota  case since I have not investigated it myself. I do know that
driver error  has been a major cause in these kinds of cases. It still
puzzles me why  anyone should accelerate to a 100 mph plus when the ignition
switch turned  off or shifting to neutral is still a choice. I do know that
it takes a  couple of seconds to respond to an unexpected situation. I guess
people can  just freeze too. I don't have an answer on this  one!

Tom

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Mar  7 22:42:26 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 21:42:26 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
References: <43376.40292.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4828873AD9DE4109813CA924E0E9BDA9@edc2750afa5a84>
	<274F3712B85840C792D074A0A68A8B3B@tiger>
Message-ID: <50C10E1B46CC468F8467CA6BE4826DB3@edc2750afa5a84>

Neil -- I agree with your point about the need or lack thereof for "fly by 
wire" in a passenger automobile.  But that doesn't mean that there won't be 
some market demand for a level of performance and other capabilities that 
encourage its adoption in the higher end models.  Still, I'd like to have a 
reliable and readily accessible "power kill" control.

I do think this Toyota thing combined with the reality of changes in the way 
we will have to fuel our vehicles is going to have a profound effect on the 
passenger automobiles in our future.  I predict there will be a big 
rethinking of what we need and expect out of our cars. And I'm thinking that 
a lot of us old racers are not going to be real excited about what's coming. 
Me included.  Still I have to be pragmatic.

About "change a control from a direct linkage to an intermediate control "

I think one has to separate the idea of "potential failure mechanism" and 
actual reduced system reliability.  Like we have enough experience with 
failures of simple throttle linkages to require two return springs and 
discourage cable throttle systems. It's a case by case thing.

Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: "23weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "Joel Wolcott" 
<wolcott_jl at yahoo.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel 
mileage
> Ed;
> Any time you change a control from a direct linkage to an intermediate 
> control you have introduced a potential failure mechanism. Fly by wire 
> systems are necessary in modern high performance aircraft for lots of 
> reasons but I can't see any overwhelming reason to put it in a passenger 
> car.
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Mar  8 09:45:39 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:45:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
In-Reply-To: <50C10E1B46CC468F8467CA6BE4826DB3@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <43376.40292.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4828873AD9DE4109813CA924E0E9BDA9@edc2750afa5a84>
	<274F3712B85840C792D074A0A68A8B3B@tiger>
	<50C10E1B46CC468F8467CA6BE4826DB3@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <D884423C54AE4E31B5BD6336AE2D7731@tiger>

Ed;

Computer controls are great when they are working as they should but 
remember that every computer is made with a "RESET" button for a reason. :)

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "23weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:42 PM
To: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>; "Joel Wolcott" 
<wolcott_jl at yahoo.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel 
mileage

> Neil -- I agree with your point about the need or lack thereof for "fly by 
> wire" in a passenger automobile.  But that doesn't mean that there won't 
> be some market demand for a level of performance and other capabilities 
> that encourage its adoption in the higher end models.  Still, I'd like to 
> have a reliable and readily accessible "power kill" control.
>
> I do think this Toyota thing combined with the reality of changes in the 
> way we will have to fuel our vehicles is going to have a profound effect 
> on the passenger automobiles in our future.  I predict there will be a big 
> rethinking of what we need and expect out of our cars. And I'm thinking 
> that a lot of us old racers are not going to be real excited about what's 
> coming. Me included.  Still I have to be pragmatic.
>
> About "change a control from a direct linkage to an intermediate control "
>
> I think one has to separate the idea of "potential failure mechanism" and 
> actual reduced system reliability.  Like we have enough experience with 
> failures of simple throttle linkages to require two return springs and 
> discourage cable throttle systems. It's a case by case thing.
>
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>
> To: "23weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "Joel Wolcott" 
> <wolcott_jl at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel 
> mileage
>> Ed;
>> Any time you change a control from a direct linkage to an intermediate 
>> control you have introduced a potential failure mechanism. Fly by wire 
>> systems are necessary in modern high performance aircraft for lots of 
>> reasons but I can't see any overwhelming reason to put it in a passenger 
>> car.
>> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Mar  8 09:52:32 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:52:32 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
In-Reply-To: <9BB6A25A-53DB-4BE9-A76A-C0C30E589BBB@comcast.net>
References: <8f87e.b955985.38c58b5d@aol.com> <4B944DBD.00002B.01060@HOME>
	<9BB6A25A-53DB-4BE9-A76A-C0C30E589BBB@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <43AC657C15D141C3B730388A53D00D98@tiger>

Wes;

I lived in Japan right after the War-- I was an "Army Brat"-- so I am 
familiar with the Japanese culture. They do not like to admit mistakes--  
"lose face"-- so small mistakes go unreported or papered over.

But as the AVG Flying Tigers used to say "Better to lose face than to lose 
ass."

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 8:07 PM
To: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <BWANA343 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel 
mileage

> I had an interesting visit with an old friend who is a GM dealer and has a
> Nissan franchise as well.  He mentioned that the Japanese makers put off
> correcting problems until they blow up to big recalls.  They protect their
> image at all costs until it is  too late to do anything but damage 
> control.
> GM just corrects problems as they arise and there isn't the big press 
> about
> the recalls as a result.  He claims it's very much an approach from 
> different
> cultures.  The extended description of the two approaches made for a
> fascinating evening.  He came out of college as a nuclear chemist and was
> rising through the ranks very rapidly in that field until family matters
> required him to come home and take over the family dealership.  I respect 
> the
> analytical approach he brings to a problem and enjoy hearing his side of 
> the
> story.  What I miss are the shorter discussions about like matters in the 
> past
> that have usually been on a chair lift at Alta.
>
> Wes
>
> On Mar 7, 2010, at 6:07 PM, Tom Bryant wrote:
>
>> Bob & All,
>>
>> Don't be too quick to place the blame on causes in this case. I am always
> am
>> suspicious when congress is enjoying grilling heads of corporations.
> Having
>> investigated a number of stuck throttles, brake failures, lemon cases, 
>> etc.
>> for  attorneys and insurance companies that involving a number of 
>> different
>> manufacturers, I would be reluctant to make decisions on what the causes
> are
>> in this Toyota case since I have not investigated it myself. I do know 
>> that
>> driver error has been a major cause in these kinds of cases. It still
>> puzzles me why anyone should accelerate to a 100 mph plus when the 
>> ignition
>> switch turned off or shifting to neutral is still a choice. I do know 
>> that
>> it takes a couple of seconds to respond to an unexpected situation. I 
>> guess
>> people can just freeze too. I don't have an answer on this one!
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name 
>> of
> faint_grain.jpg]
>>
>> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of
> stampa_girl_line_en.gif]

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Mar  8 10:07:49 2010
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:07:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
In-Reply-To: <D884423C54AE4E31B5BD6336AE2D7731@tiger>
Message-ID: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05AAD30C@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>

Edit: and all the connectors/sensors/wires and crap are PERFECT.

David, nomo FI.


Ed;

Computer controls are great when they are working as they should but
remember that every computer is made with a "RESET" button for a reason.
:)

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Mar  8 12:02:42 2010
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 12:02:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map
In-Reply-To: <3E84E93CECF24E93AA41A812D928F28C@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05AAD35F@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>

www.fullscreenweather.com  bounces me to
http://www.wunderground.com/auto/wxmap/

An excellent resource.  Thanks!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
speedtimer at beyondbb.com
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:09 AM
To: landspeed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map

Check this out, fullscreenweather.com

A great weather station with lots of neat options and pictures, street
maps
etc. Log on and check out wendover, utah

It shows everything

Glen
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/davidadin at mercydurango.
org

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Mar  8 19:52:07 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:52:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map
In-Reply-To: <3E84E93CECF24E93AA41A812D928F28C@GlenPC>
References: <3E84E93CECF24E93AA41A812D928F28C@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <SNT126-W54A16DE317C03628DB7C53C9340@phx.gbl>

Glen;



Yes, this a great weather link. We use it in conjunction with National Weather
Service at Millers Track in Tooele. Of course there its: wind,wind, and more
wind! LOL

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 09:08:33 -0700
> Subject: [Land-speed] Weather map
>
> Check this out, fullscreenweather.com
>
> A great weather station with lots of neat options and pictures, street maps
> etc. Log on and check out wendover, utah
>
> It shows everything
>
> Glen
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltfevr at q.com

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Tue Mar  9 15:30:48 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:30:48 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Packing wheel bearings
Message-ID: <3EAA83F65532455994142F25EF62BBCF@john>

Should I put a normal amount of grease in my taper roller wheel bearings ? I'm
using killer expensive Kluber synthetic grease , NBU15 (high speed - moderate
load) .

From bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Tue Mar  9 18:22:18 2010
From: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:22:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Runaway Prius (non LSR)
Message-ID: <1522329724.1880771268184138466.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

Forgive me list, but I'm enjoying this. 
Who knew they'd go that fast? Did the batteries kick in too? Aero, though... 

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Mar  9 21:14:19 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 20:14:19 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Packing wheel bearings
References: <3EAA83F65532455994142F25EF62BBCF@john>
Message-ID: <8C971CC801814D5199F2071FE4CCB456@edc2750afa5a84>

I say stick with the normal amount unless someone with real experience 
suggests less.  What you don't want is more that will create a rapid 
overheating of the bearings from friction release in the churning of too 
much grease.We never saw problems in 200 mph cars we ran; but the weight 
loads were pretty light in the lakester and modified roadster.(Doug King's 
cars)
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:30 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Packing wheel bearings


> Should I put a normal amount of grease in my taper roller wheel bearings ? 
> I'm
> using killer expensive Kluber synthetic grease , NBU15 (high speed - 
> moderate
> load) .
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/23.weldon at comcast.net

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Fri Mar 12 08:03:06 2010
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:03:06 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Trouble subscribing
Message-ID: <B176783F-AE3D-47E2-8E4A-4C081D6E9FF8@nancyandjon.org>

Bob, the fellow that helps me with landracing.com, can't subscribe to this
list - for some reason.  He gets a "unknown list  land speed" when he attempts
to get in.  Anybody know if there's a new magic secret decoder ring that is
required?  Thanks.

Jon a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim

From mark at bradakis.com  Fri Mar 12 09:01:00 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:01:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trouble subscribing
In-Reply-To: <B176783F-AE3D-47E2-8E4A-4C081D6E9FF8@nancyandjon.org>
References: <B176783F-AE3D-47E2-8E4A-4C081D6E9FF8@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <4B9A653C.2050705@bradakis.com>

It is not that difficult - go to http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo


mjb.

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Fri Mar 12 19:34:00 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:34:00 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Life magazine images o fRods &  Bonneville  53-54
Message-ID: <E18A19C05246474C87F511D4D70D15BB@Dell4400>

Just found a huge file of Life magazine photos online in the archives on Hot
rods and BONNEVILLE 1953 and 1954   some are show photos and many-many photos
on the salt..
just a taste..  do not want to overload the message     hope this brings back
some good memories

 Du Bont Special   Beast No 2     car # 161   (car show)
  may 1952
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/38f702dd91677da5_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/8f6e95b13531e598_large

  Du Bont Motors roadster
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/39709005dbd79cd4_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/998a3fdd1c82b26e_large

  Al's Tune-up Shop Belly tank lakester Car # 14
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/ecf847c9b12a1443_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/013673f92cf1a517_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d79af7ef9e91e409_large

  Bob Higdon flathead roadster plus
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/cef93445144ca39c_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/bdd65d9c7bc71744_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/35bc9db6d8675cdc_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/b9f66ef5c18148aa_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/079b06b0abb5266c_large

  unknowns
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/fce0712e65a2f8f1_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/a16ae7d5e5c211f0_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/01558f817099bde2_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/2c7f80be2dc430ae_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e17c3d46964c5c13_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/ffcf426aa3762d82_large

   racer taking the hot rod for a spin.
   Date taken: September 1953
   Photographer: J. R. Eyerman
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d26ccb4d444e3aec_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/ef1c5df295f55494_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/31a0b94a3bf6c5f2_large

  Chet Herbert   Sept 1953
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/886690d046107464_large
  Chet Herbert 1954
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/0d3833b9d5230aec_large

  Rollie with his leathers on ?  1953
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9d666b333314a546_large

  Belly Tank # 57   1954
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/5d594fa773ebbc09_large

 Howards cams  sidecar ?  1954
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/dc26700e234f01bf_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/fd8457efbb195a31_large

  Salt 1953   Look at that camera...
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/2298e015411560fd_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/8699b05937ec0466_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/2b446d82fd9b5f16_large

  Bob Estes   Car 404    1953
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/8cbb60bda65a8e55_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/680c9973c2d3d178_large

  1954    car 166
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/527f67afb3534187_large

  1954   car  146
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/24a496a6212b5a31_large

  1954  car 211C
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/72313d9983e6fcaa_large

  1954  Start line waiting
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/aebf3346da4e9da1_large

From mark at bradakis.com  Fri Mar 12 20:01:03 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:01:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Life magazine images o fRods & Bonneville 53-54
In-Reply-To: <E18A19C05246474C87F511D4D70D15BB@Dell4400>
References: <E18A19C05246474C87F511D4D70D15BB@Dell4400>
Message-ID: <4B9AFFEF.8030202@bradakis.com>

Thank you.  Those are some NICE pics.

I was born in '54 - some of those guys look like my uncles.

mjb.

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 12 23:10:24 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:10:24 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Life magazine images o fRods & Bonneville 53-54
References: <E18A19C05246474C87F511D4D70D15BB@Dell4400>
Message-ID: <AF877E0A338348D5BB4A6BC0887AFC41@mydf7618c59bbf>

Looks like Jerry Johanson pushing back the twin tank. Howard was in the 
first pic of it.
Tom Beatty's tank with him in it with the 40 sedan delivery ready to push 
off., the last one. 

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sat Mar 13 06:41:34 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:41:34 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] more 1954 Life images
In-Reply-To: <AF877E0A338348D5BB4A6BC0887AFC41@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <E18A19C05246474C87F511D4D70D15BB@Dell4400>
	<AF877E0A338348D5BB4A6BC0887AFC41@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <97DA03D881F246FF99228B7ACF7F2B19@Dell4400>

  Bonneville 1954   car  204
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/dde972dd0be24680_large

     car 777
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/3e5edeca47245c87_large

  tank C88
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/ea4ecbaa09753914_large

  car 162
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9200e24ac33b0fcf_large

   tank
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/35d09ffe7b0d1ea6_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/dc88f094dd666778_large

  twin tank  204
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/03263cddd75d5409_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7c78a33be8d73ab3_large
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c8afb2ad4b06e2e4_large

  Car 888
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/0174ec223ee8de4a_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c074053b56cefaad_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e5620b948c71e6c1_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/f582387cea4b81d8_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/eabf3c0e7a5f39b2_large

  Car 136
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/0e0ad7236882ee1f_large

  coupe 176
  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/a0ca326fa6d0b20f_large

 car 264
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/aa3d60cf232da28f_large

  Stude
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/75bea511ade8954e_large

 unknowns
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/aa12f066c8a21559_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/503e0c8a24f542ba_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/6e3dd7d746866c14_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7f8151d928beb803_large

 car 27c
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9803c6ea7fc5849b_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/96855f86d49f07c5_large

 pits
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/444a42f8cf960d69_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7089a5872807056f_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/1b487c776fe2c367_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d4213206b8928161_large

 waiting in line
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/27b8e721a1e28d6a_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/848ffa79422822f8_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/fc50ac6352fa456b_large

 and if you want to cruise the thumbnails yourself
 http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=Bonneville+Hot+Rod+source%3Alife&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Mar 13 08:27:32 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 07:27:32 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] more 1954 Life images
In-Reply-To: <97DA03D881F246FF99228B7ACF7F2B19@Dell4400>
References: <E18A19C05246474C87F511D4D70D15BB@Dell4400>
	<AF877E0A338348D5BB4A6BC0887AFC41@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<97DA03D881F246FF99228B7ACF7F2B19@Dell4400>
Message-ID: <4B9BAEE4.5080106@mayfco.com>

John, many thanks for the photo links! Some great shots.  I also notice 
tha the wiat lines to run are much shorter, lol....

Car 888..that seems to have captured my imagination. Anybody know where 
it is or what happened to it?

mayf

John Szalay wrote:

>  Bonneville 1954   car  204
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/dde972dd0be24680_large
>
>     car 777
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/3e5edeca47245c87_large
>
>  tank C88
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/ea4ecbaa09753914_large
>
>  car 162
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9200e24ac33b0fcf_large
>
>   tank
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/35d09ffe7b0d1ea6_large
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/dc88f094dd666778_large
>
>  twin tank  204
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/03263cddd75d5409_large
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7c78a33be8d73ab3_large
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c8afb2ad4b06e2e4_large
>
>  Car 888
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/0174ec223ee8de4a_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c074053b56cefaad_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e5620b948c71e6c1_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/f582387cea4b81d8_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/eabf3c0e7a5f39b2_large
>
>  Car 136
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/0e0ad7236882ee1f_large
>
>  coupe 176
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/a0ca326fa6d0b20f_large
>
> car 264
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/aa3d60cf232da28f_large
>
>  Stude
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/75bea511ade8954e_large
>
> unknowns
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/aa12f066c8a21559_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/503e0c8a24f542ba_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/6e3dd7d746866c14_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7f8151d928beb803_large
>
> car 27c
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9803c6ea7fc5849b_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/96855f86d49f07c5_large
>
> pits
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/444a42f8cf960d69_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7089a5872807056f_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/1b487c776fe2c367_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d4213206b8928161_large
>
> waiting in line
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/27b8e721a1e28d6a_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/848ffa79422822f8_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/fc50ac6352fa456b_large
>
> and if you want to cruise the thumbnails yourself
> http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=Bonneville+Hot+Rod+source%3Alife&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sat Mar 13 08:36:43 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:36:43 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Life magazine images
In-Reply-To: <AF877E0A338348D5BB4A6BC0887AFC41@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <E18A19C05246474C87F511D4D70D15BB@Dell4400>
	<AF877E0A338348D5BB4A6BC0887AFC41@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <0820D8F2A04C4FFFB85FB671D42E7D97@Dell4400>

other racing &  Booneville images including   meet at Santa Ana 1957 among 
others
car shows

These images may be mis-labeled, mis-placed  .. or ?
there are over 2 million images in the archives covering years of  Life 
magazine unpublished and more still coming.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&tbs=isch:1&q=hot+rod+racing+source:life&sa=N&start=20&ndsp=20 

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sat Mar 13 09:55:04 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:55:04 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] more 1954 Life images
In-Reply-To: <D275FFE094A647449BD2ED61B8613A56@GlenPC>
References: <E18A19C05246474C87F511D4D70D15BB@Dell4400>
	<AF877E0A338348D5BB4A6BC0887AFC41@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<97DA03D881F246FF99228B7ACF7F2B19@Dell4400>
	<4B9BAEE4.5080106@mayfco.com>
	<D275FFE094A647449BD2ED61B8613A56@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <40E9052E107D4B29820CB3019F4407CC@Dell4400>

there are about 5 images of a horrible crash on the salt,  but there is no 
way to tell which vehicle it is.
I'm not into wrecks so I did not include those in the image links.
will post them if there is an interest..

--------------------------------------------------
From: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:37 AM
To: "John Szalay" <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: "Land Speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] more 1954 Life images

> Car 888 was built by Gene LeBlanc, Chrysler powered, the car had a weird 
> cable steering set up. Gary Cagle was asked to drive the car but turned it 
> down. Glenn Pangry ended up as the driver. The car crashed on the run and 
> and Pangry lost a arm when it came through the top hatch. Pangry was also 
> a driver for Fritz Voigt prior to that.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sat Mar 13 09:56:55 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:56:55 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] a few more Life image links
Message-ID: <99E7DBD57AF94B159C3E2A2980053A9E@Dell4400>

 1953 set of images
 1953  Bob Estes Mercury car,  Chet Herbert in the background
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/41169025aa4364db_large

 Hemi in the car
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/6b55ccfec33454e6_large

 car detail front end
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/13cab69ff7000b76_large

 Shadoff Spl pit sign & car 27c
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/4614185f50bf44ec_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/96855f86d49f07c5_large

 open spaces run
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/501ce2d1e9285f1b_large

  Webber Cams  # 239 twin flathead coupe  (1954)
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d16f4ea282d442aa_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7395af45479ab76c_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9f93b4341f6db7ca_large

 water on the salt
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/dbaf78d4e35e72c3_large

 # 86  push start
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/4418f613e04c474b_large

 Tank 88 push start
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/ea4ecbaa09753914_large

 Coupe 162 with salt on the roof
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9200e24ac33b0fcf_large

 888 start of run
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/72869ed53c2acf8f_large

 start line ?   1954
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/6b6ee0f1071b2d06_large

 Sports  # 61
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/1ae8b140c4ca0eb3_large

 Bonneville mirage
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/116668c4c8e7bb7c_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c29df0b8b4fb9b69_large

 bike #20  no leathers
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/bd1f1226de593f36_large

 streamliner bike
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/05922d64fcb61c9d_large

  rear engine roadster #128D
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9f267eb8ed65b9dc_large

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Mar 13 10:47:10 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:47:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville 1954
Message-ID: <318F8953-BA4E-4303-9E87-005FEAB90346@comcast.net>

There may have been 60 cars entered that year at Speed Week, all but about ten
from Southern California.

If you spot a skinny kid with hair, glasses, wearing tan Clark's Desert Boots
in any of these photos, that's very possibly me.

We drove out to the salt in my friend's black, '49 Merc Convertible.  I
stepped in a puddle of clear fuel by accident.  By the time we drove into
Wendover and I had walked across the gravel parking lot to the Stateline for
dinner, I had a permanent gravel sole on those shoes.  The fuel made the gum
rubber soles like rubber cement.

I can positively identify people in one shot and have a very good idea on
another.

> Car 888
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/0174ec223ee8de4a_large


> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c074053b56cefaad_large  		The red coupe
behind the liner is Don West's car, Mary West's ex.  Don finally qualified for
the 2 Club some 33 years and 4 or 5 cars, belly tank, Studebaker, Corvair,
Firebird that went upside down, and the Firebird he qualified in in the late
1980's.  His son Marty made the 2 Club in the same car after the Classic
category was opened.


> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e5620b948c71e6c1_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/f582387cea4b81d8_large


> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/eabf3c0e7a5f39b2_large  		That looks like
Mary West's back on the far right of this shot.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Mar 13 11:06:01 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:06:01 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville
Message-ID: <F2D8543B-577F-454F-8228-A76F7C9C02B1@comcast.net>

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7395af45479ab76c_large

F. G. Ferre & Son was a Salt Lake aftermarket parts store.  Located at 1986
south State st., now the O. C. Tanner Jewelry Company campus.

Ferre's had access to every line of speed parts that were made at that time.
I worked evenings, part time, for them around 1960 at a secondary location to
their Provo store and killed time between customers pouring over the catalogs
and checking prices.

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sat Mar 13 11:56:09 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:56:09 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] a few more Life links
Message-ID: <0842B6BA35DF431EBB290C788825D666@Dell4400>

 Shadoff Special  car with body off
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/988dae06c4c80463_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/5a45d4a418c6abc8_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/58f34b868eaead5e_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/54f8f3343588fa38_large

 Wally Parks
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/aa874729a414b6ed_large

 the line
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/8414d86f50e242c5_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/2480ed0962927b8a_large

 design stage
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c9b793d097969105_large

 geting ready  1950
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7f59932d2c6a67b7_large

  Bob Estes Mercury  car # 404
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/8cbb60bda65a8e55_large

From v4gmr at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 14:43:41 2010
From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:43:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] 888 Car
In-Reply-To: <0842B6BA35DF431EBB290C788825D666@Dell4400>
Message-ID: <190748.33475.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

It has been a long time but I believe the 888 car is local Sam Mateo County muffler shop owner gene LeBlancs streamliner. Gene was a big Y block racer at the time with a sling shot that also used either Ford or Lincoln Y block power. I believe the streamliner crashed and was destroyed.

From ronggibson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 15:11:54 2010
From: ronggibson at gmail.com (Ron Gibson)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:11:54 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204
Message-ID: <7fed79f91003131411s10e26769uaf5ee4f7fc521a60@mail.gmail.com>

In the Life pictures, does anyone know where the #204, 54 Ford, with the
weird paint job was from?
 Just curious. A friend here in Omaha was doing some rust repair on a 54
Ford and it had an old "Bonneville participant 1954" adhesive sticker on the
firewall. Supposedly had been run at the salt. Had a McCullough blower on
the 239, was told it was an option in 54. Just wondering if it may be the
same car.

Ron

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Mar 13 15:34:21 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:34:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204
In-Reply-To: <7fed79f91003131411s10e26769uaf5ee4f7fc521a60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7fed79f91003131411s10e26769uaf5ee4f7fc521a60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <386F89EF362E4F97933E32322ABE5D93@GlenPC>

Ron
The only thing I found was a #204 that ran in 1957 and Entered as Stern & 
Mahoney from Venice California, Speed was 182.92 mph. It ran in the D comp. 
coupe class.Looks like it was 1st. in class that year. The record they ran 
against was Christmans coupe of 190 mph set in 1956. Hope this helps.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Gibson" <ronggibson at gmail.com>
To: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 3:11 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204


> In the Life pictures, does anyone know where the #204, 54 Ford, with the
> weird paint job was from?
> Just curious. A friend here in Omaha was doing some rust repair on a 54
> Ford and it had an old "Bonneville participant 1954" adhesive sticker on 
> the
> firewall. Supposedly had been run at the salt. Had a McCullough blower on
> the 239, was told it was an option in 54. Just wondering if it may be the
> same car.
>
> Ron
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From ronggibson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 18:01:57 2010
From: ronggibson at gmail.com (Ron Gibson)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:01:57 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204
In-Reply-To: <386F89EF362E4F97933E32322ABE5D93@GlenPC>
References: <7fed79f91003131411s10e26769uaf5ee4f7fc521a60@mail.gmail.com>
	<386F89EF362E4F97933E32322ABE5D93@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <7fed79f91003131701q1a955199h71da421eec956676@mail.gmail.com>

Glen
In the Email from John Szalay this morning, The first picture says 1954
Bonneville and shows a 54 Ford. Just going on what is shown. Could a 54 that
looks stock run in comp coupe back then? Don't know what the rules were back
then.
I just thought if it was the same car, I would try to get a hold of the
owner to tell him about the pictures. Really some cool pictures.

Thanks for looking.
Ron

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 4:34 PM, <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> wrote:

> Ron
> The only thing I found was a #204 that ran in 1957 and Entered as Stern &
> Mahoney from Venice California, Speed was 182.92 mph. It ran in the D comp.
> coupe class.Looks like it was 1st. in class that year. The record they ran
> against was Christmans coupe of 190 mph set in 1956. Hope this helps.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Gibson" <ronggibson at gmail.com>
> To: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 3:11 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204
> _______________________________________________
>
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From mark at bradakis.com  Sat Mar 13 18:29:10 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:29:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <F2D8543B-577F-454F-8228-A76F7C9C02B1@comcast.net>
References: <F2D8543B-577F-454F-8228-A76F7C9C02B1@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4B9C3BE6.4020601@bradakis.com>

A senior moment brain fart - was the displacement of the original
Chrysler FirePower hemi 262 cubic inches?  I sort of recall it wasn't
big in terms of displacement, but made a lot of power for its size.

mjb.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Mar 13 18:35:01 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:35:01 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204
In-Reply-To: <7fed79f91003131701q1a955199h71da421eec956676@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7fed79f91003131411s10e26769uaf5ee4f7fc521a60@mail.gmail.com>
	<386F89EF362E4F97933E32322ABE5D93@GlenPC>
	<7fed79f91003131701q1a955199h71da421eec956676@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C6B3D872310F4ECA9CE4C230B90E29F8@GlenPC>

Ron, back then the rules were a little different as the engine sizes were
A-being the smaller and B<C,D, etc going up in cu/in size, also a blower
increased the class up to two sizes, IE a B with a supercharger would be a D,
now they are different classes, blown and unblown.
The rules back then were on the back side of the entry form, Best I can do now
as the #204 was not pre entered in 54,55, or 56. 1957 was the only one I could
find.
Glen
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ron Gibson
  To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
  Cc: land-speed
  Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204


  Glen
  In the Email from John Szalay this morning, The first picture says 1954
Bonneville and shows a 54 Ford. Just going on what is shown. Could a 54 that
looks stock run in comp coupe back then? Don't know what the rules were back
then.
  I just thought if it was the same car, I would try to get a hold of the
owner to tell him about the pictures. Really some cool pictures.

  Thanks for looking.
  Ron


  On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 4:34 PM, <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> wrote:

    Ron
    The only thing I found was a #204 that ran in 1957 and Entered as Stern &
Mahoney from Venice California, Speed was 182.92 mph. It ran in the D comp.
coupe class.Looks like it was 1st. in class that year. The record they ran
against was Christmans coupe of 190 mph set in 1956. Hope this helps.
    Glen
    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Gibson" <ronggibson at gmail.com>
    To: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
    Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 3:11 PM
    Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204
    _______________________________________________

      Land-speed at autox.team.net
      Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
      Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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      Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Mar 13 18:43:45 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:43:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <4B9C3BE6.4020601@bradakis.com>
References: <F2D8543B-577F-454F-8228-A76F7C9C02B1@comcast.net>
	<4B9C3BE6.4020601@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <B977ECFEB539437AA1DA79F2274CC2CC@GlenPC>

The Chrysler 6 cyl, was 264 cu/in, the smallest V8- was a 301 cu/in, in the 
Winsor ,and the New Yorker had a 331 cu/in V8.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville


>A senior moment brain fart - was the displacement of the original
> Chrysler FirePower hemi 262 cubic inches?  I sort of recall it wasn't
> big in terms of displacement, but made a lot of power for its size.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 13 18:46:47 2010
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (Joe & Lynne Lance)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:46:47 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <4B9C3BE6.4020601@bradakis.com>
References: <F2D8543B-577F-454F-8228-A76F7C9C02B1@comcast.net>
	<4B9C3BE6.4020601@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <C87E77248C6941BEACA8F0FD749C06BA@josephb4d4bd9f>

It was 331 cid

Lance

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:29 PM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville

A senior moment brain fart - was the displacement of the original
Chrysler FirePower hemi 262 cubic inches?  I sort of recall it wasn't
big in terms of displacement, but made a lot of power for its size.

mjb.
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
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From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 13 19:23:56 2010
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (Joe & Lynne Lance)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:23:56 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <B977ECFEB539437AA1DA79F2274CC2CC@GlenPC>
References: <F2D8543B-577F-454F-8228-A76F7C9C02B1@comcast.net><4B9C3BE6.4020601@bradakis.com>
	<B977ECFEB539437AA1DA79F2274CC2CC@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <0AB4255401B7480396A2B02B5D1504A9@josephb4d4bd9f>

Not quite, the first Chrysler hemi V8s in 1951 were all 331 cid, first
Desoto hemi V8 in 1952 was 276 cid, first Dodge hemi V8 in 1953 was 241 cid.

In 1951 the Windsor came only with the 250 cid 6 which grew to 265 cid, this
six was replaced with the 301 cid hemi V8 in 1955. I believe 1955 was the
only year Chrysler made the 301 hemi--curious.

Lance

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
speedtimer at beyondbb.com
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:44 PM
To: Mark J Bradakis; LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville

The Chrysler 6 cyl, was 264 cu/in, the smallest V8- was a 301 cu/in, in the 
Winsor ,and the New Yorker had a 331 cu/in V8.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville


>A senior moment brain fart - was the displacement of the original
> Chrysler FirePower hemi 262 cubic inches?  I sort of recall it wasn't
> big in terms of displacement, but made a lot of power for its size.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
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From mark at bradakis.com  Sat Mar 13 19:51:32 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:51:32 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <0AB4255401B7480396A2B02B5D1504A9@josephb4d4bd9f>
References: <F2D8543B-577F-454F-8228-A76F7C9C02B1@comcast.net><4B9C3BE6.4020601@bradakis.com>
	<B977ECFEB539437AA1DA79F2274CC2CC@GlenPC>
	<0AB4255401B7480396A2B02B5D1504A9@josephb4d4bd9f>
Message-ID: <4B9C4F34.4080404@bradakis.com>

I wonder how the 262 got stuck in my head?  Oh well. so it goes.
I do somewhat remember Chrysler wedges of 383 and 440.  Guys
talk, you hear things.  I am sure my father never bought a Dodge
station wagon with the 440 wedge, and if he did he would never
let his oldest son drive the younger brother and some scouts to a
weekend camp and cruise at 100+ on the freeway , nope, never
happened, honest officer, it wasn't me.

mjb.

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Mar 13 20:16:49 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:16:49 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine size designations
Message-ID: <44F4B80440A341AA8C86B35DD70AF862@john>

"Ron, back then the rules were a little different as the engine sizes were
A-being the smaller and B<C,D, etc going up in cu/in size, also "

That reminds me of when my friend was driving my A/FD and another friends
AA/FD . His wife kept proudly telling her friends Bill was driving a D
dragster . She finally admitted she was thinking of bra sizes .

John

From jdincau at qnet.com  Sat Mar 13 22:25:49 2010
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:25:49 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <0AB4255401B7480396A2B02B5D1504A9@josephb4d4bd9f>
References: <F2D8543B-577F-454F-8228-A76F7C9C02B1@comcast.net><4B9C3BE6.4020601@bradakis.com><B977ECFEB539437AA1DA79F2274CC2CC@GlenPC>
	<0AB4255401B7480396A2B02B5D1504A9@josephb4d4bd9f>
Message-ID: <0719B39797BD436FB8BB62FADCFB6B74@denpc>

The 300 incher wasn't a hemi, it was what Chrysler called a polysphere. Hot 
rodders put 354 hemi heads on the 300 inch block.
Jim

>
> In 1951 the Windsor came only with the 250 cid 6 which grew to 265 cid, 
> this
> six was replaced with the 301 cid hemi V8 in 1955. I believe 1955 was the
> only year Chrysler made the 301 hemi--curious.
>
> Lance

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sun Mar 14 08:21:32 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:21:32 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204
In-Reply-To: <7fed79f91003131701q1a955199h71da421eec956676@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7fed79f91003131411s10e26769uaf5ee4f7fc521a60@mail.gmail.com>
	<386F89EF362E4F97933E32322ABE5D93@GlenPC>
	<7fed79f91003131701q1a955199h71da421eec956676@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F3EBE8240AEB4C9F890529D9722F7FE5@Dell4400>

 Ok there appears to be two images of the 204 Ford
 neither is really good
One shows the 204 Ford in the wait line behind the 239 Coupe
and by playing with the contrast and color depth I can make out
the words on the rear fender

            ELLICO      Ford
            Alhambra Calif

  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7395af45479ab76c_large
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/dde972dd0be24680_large

 and to muddy the waters a little more,  the Howards cams twin tank
also has the number 204 , and its push vehicle is a yellow truck  same shade 
of
yellow paint..and seen in a couple of images with the twin tank.

 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/b74e7c71b97967b8_large



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ron Gibson" <ronggibson at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:01 PM
To: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204

> Glen
> In the Email from John Szalay this morning, The first picture says 1954
> Bonneville and shows a 54 Ford. Just going on what is shown. Could a 54 
> that
> looks stock run in comp coupe back then? Don't know what the rules were 
> back
> then.
> I just thought if it was the same car, I would try to get a hold of the
> owner to tell him about the pictures. Really some cool pictures.
>
> Thanks for looking.
> Ron
>
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 4:34 PM, <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> wrote:
>
>> Ron
>> The only thing I found was a #204 that ran in 1957 and Entered as Stern &
>> Mahoney from Venice California, Speed was 182.92 mph. It ran in the D 
>> comp.
>> coupe class.Looks like it was 1st. in class that year. The record they 
>> ran
>> against was Christmans coupe of 190 mph set in 1956. Hope this helps.
>> Glen

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Mar 14 08:28:39 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 09:28:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204
In-Reply-To: <F3EBE8240AEB4C9F890529D9722F7FE5@Dell4400>
References: <7fed79f91003131411s10e26769uaf5ee4f7fc521a60@mail.gmail.com>
	<386F89EF362E4F97933E32322ABE5D93@GlenPC>
	<7fed79f91003131701q1a955199h71da421eec956676@mail.gmail.com>
	<F3EBE8240AEB4C9F890529D9722F7FE5@Dell4400>
Message-ID: <3C880139288C45AB851F53EBDD69A581@GlenPC>

John
I couldn't fine any other info on the Ford. The 239 coupe in front of him is 
Mickey Thompsons twin engine car. Had two flats heads in it in 54, the next 
year it had a flat head and a Chrysler in it and ran 194 mph as I recall. We 
were in the same class with a 34 coupe with 1 blown and 1 unblown flathead. 
Didn't do to well around 160 mph, had handling problems.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Szalay" <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>
To: "Ron Gibson" <ronggibson at gmail.com>; <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204


>
> Ok there appears to be two images of the 204 Ford
> neither is really good
> One shows the 204 Ford in the wait line behind the 239 Coupe
> and by playing with the contrast and color depth I can make out
> the words on the rear fender
>
>            ELLICO      Ford
>            Alhambra Calif
>
>  http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7395af45479ab76c_large
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/dde972dd0be24680_large
>
> and to muddy the waters a little more,  the Howards cams twin tank
> also has the number 204 , and its push vehicle is a yellow truck  same 
> shade of
> yellow paint..and seen in a couple of images with the twin tank.
>
> http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/b74e7c71b97967b8_large
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Ron Gibson" <ronggibson at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:01 PM
> To: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Cc: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] 1954 Bonneville -car #204
>
>> Glen
>> In the Email from John Szalay this morning, The first picture says 1954
>> Bonneville and shows a 54 Ford. Just going on what is shown. Could a 54 
>> that
>> looks stock run in comp coupe back then? Don't know what the rules were 
>> back
>> then.
>> I just thought if it was the same car, I would try to get a hold of the
>> owner to tell him about the pictures. Really some cool pictures.
>>
>> Thanks for looking.
>> Ron
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 4:34 PM, <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ron
>>> The only thing I found was a #204 that ran in 1957 and Entered as Stern 
>>> &
>>> Mahoney from Venice California, Speed was 182.92 mph. It ran in the D 
>>> comp.
>>> coupe class.Looks like it was 1st. in class that year. The record they 
>>> ran
>>> against was Christmans coupe of 190 mph set in 1956. Hope this helps.
>>> Glen

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sun Mar 14 09:26:01 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:26:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] 888 Car
In-Reply-To: <190748.33475.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1346099725.6228261268583961398.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Gene Le Blanc now lives in Glamis Ca. The sand dune place.My friend Yeaji Toyota "The King of Fremont 1959" drove LeBlancs Lincoln powered rail. 

Jack 

It has been a long time but I believe the 888 car is local Sam Mateo County muffler shop owner gene LeBlancs streamliner. Gene was a big Y block racer at the time with a sling shot that also used either Ford or Lincoln Y block power. I believe the streamliner crashed and was destroyed. 
_______________________________________________ 

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sun Mar 14 10:52:01 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:52:01 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Published in Life photo links
Message-ID: <9A47CC3C213944B0879EBD02CC37F413@Dell4400>

Salt Flats photos that were published in Life magazine,  some are ads
not from the submitted archives..

  Strange shapes on the Salt Flats.
 Life magazine itself Sept 28 1953
 page 16, 17, 18
 http://books.google.com/books?id=7UcEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=
1#v=twopage&q=&f=false

 Oct 29, 1956  issue   Ford ad on the salt flats  page 19, 20, 21
 http://books.google.com/books?id=s0EEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=
1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Oct 4 1948  issue   Rollie Free,  photo and description   page 50
http://books.google.com/books?id=vUoEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA50&dq=bonneville+salt+flat
s&as_pt=MAGAZINES&cd=6#v=onepage&q=bonneville%20salt%20flats&f=false

 Oct 14, 1940  Ab Jenkins featured in the Champion spark plug ad   page 128
 http://books.google.com/books?id=LEoEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA128&dq=ab+jenkins&as_pt=M
AGAZINES&cd=2#v=onepage&q=ab%20jenkins&f=false

 march 15, 1968  car 999   Autolight Spark plug ad   page   76
 http://books.google.com/books?id=5EwEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=
1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 July 22, 1957  issue   Firestone ad with car 777  Kenz & leslie streamliner
page 24, 25
 http://books.google.com/books?id=Mz8EAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=
1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Sun Mar 14 15:37:21 2010
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:37:21 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Early Hemis
In-Reply-To: <0AB4255401B7480396A2B02B5D1504A9@josephb4d4bd9f>
References: <F2D8543B-577F-454F-8228-A76F7C9C02B1@comcast.net>
	<4B9C3BE6.4020601@bradakis.com>
	<B977ECFEB539437AA1DA79F2274CC2CC@GlenPC>
	<0AB4255401B7480396A2B02B5D1504A9@josephb4d4bd9f>
Message-ID: <CDE95FC148B94428BA680AB941BA007C@ChrisHarrisPC>

If you want to lump all early Mopar hemi's together they ran in size :
241, 270, 276, 290, 291, 315, 325, 330, 331, 341, 345, 354, 392.
Not a lot of interchangeability amongst the non mainstream engine sizes.
I truly love these motors, an 'icon' of Hotrodding in all applications.
Would dearly like to buy a sound non bored 392 block and/or crank to build 
into a street rod mill. Can anyone on the list or out there help.
Chris Harris....................NZed. 

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Mar 14 18:47:25 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:47:25 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] non LSR daylight savings suggestion
Message-ID: <714A551B-DBF7-4651-BC8C-A6A3662681DA@comcast.net>

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016320/Daylight-after-work-is-all-that-
matters.html


Why not just turn our clocks back a few hours?

From david_dymaxion at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 09:38:32 2010
From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com (David Dymaxion)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:38:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric Motorcycle record
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8064.1268503593.6563.land-speed@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.8064.1268503593.6563.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <684843.48871.qm@web32808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Not super fast, but some great video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LZeXQV7mHY&feature=sub

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Mar 15 10:46:24 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:46:24 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric Motorcycle record
In-Reply-To: <684843.48871.qm@web32808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.8064.1268503593.6563.land-speed@autox.team.net>
	<684843.48871.qm@web32808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <374F605A48744F7787AE21CA791B04B5@GlenPC>

Kent Riches ran and set a record last year at speed week with his electric 
bike at 176.434 mph. and at El Mirage  149 MPH. LET THE CHALLENGE begin
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Dymaxion" <david_dymaxion at yahoo.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:38 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric Motorcycle record


> Not super fast, but some great video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LZeXQV7mHY&feature=sub
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Mar 15 15:16:13 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:16:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
Message-ID: <4B9EB1AD.4090300@mayfco.com>

I am curious about something. That is the number of head bolts/studs on 
flathead engines.  I had an old car once that had a Continental 6 cyl 
and that sucker had about a million head bolts. Same with old Ford 
flatheads, lots of bolts or studs. And yet, with todays high compresion 
engines, greater dimensional tolerance requirements for flatnes, etc, 
most only have 10 bolts/studs for each bank of cyliners.  What's up with 
all the bolts on a low comp enigine?

mayf, just in from the shop area...mostly doing nothing...

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Mar 15 16:39:57 2010
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:39:57 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
References: <4B9EB1AD.4090300@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4B9EC54D.00000A.03808@HOME>

Mayf,

Six cylinder, I don't know...21 stud flathead Ford V-8s and then came the 24
studs per head in late thirties. Don't know why so many on a low compression
engine Fords. Block cracks were a bigger problem than head gaskets. My
Desoto V-8 had 10 bolts that held the rocker assembly and head. Worked well
for me and lots of compression, had .040 off the block and .060 off the
heads running shim head gaskets.

Tom

-------Original Message-------

From: drmayf
Date: 3/15/2010 3:16:59 PM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines

I am curious about something. That is the number of head bolts/studs on
flathead engines.  I had an old car once that had a Continental 6 cyl
and that sucker had about a million head bolts. Same with old Ford
flatheads, lots of bolts or studs. And yet, with todays high compresion
engines, greater dimensional tolerance requirements for flatnes, etc,
most only have 10 bolts/studs for each bank of cyliners.  What's up with
all the bolts on a low comp enigine?

mayf, just in from the shop area...mostly doing nothing...
_______________________________________________

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of stampa_girl_line_en.gif]

From jdincau at qnet.com  Mon Mar 15 16:59:37 2010
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:59:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
In-Reply-To: <4B9EC54D.00000A.03808@HOME>
References: <4B9EB1AD.4090300@mayfco.com> <4B9EC54D.00000A.03808@HOME>
Message-ID: <A5462AA396154D71BF71CC366E1E1EFC@denpc>

     I don't know but since I am also doing nothing I would be glad to 
speculate;
1. An irregularly shaped line to be sealed what with the detour around the 
valve pockets.
2. Copper asbestos sandwich gaskets.
3. Relatively thin head castings prone to warpage.
Jim



> Mayf,
>
> Six cylinder, I don't know...21 stud flathead Ford V-8s and then came the 
> 24
> studs per head in late thirties. Don't know why so many on a low 
> compression
> engine Fords. Block cracks were a bigger problem than head gaskets. My
> Desoto V-8 had 10 bolts that held the rocker assembly and head. Worked 
> well
> for me and lots of compression, had .040 off the block and .060 off the
> heads running shim head gaskets.
>
> Tom
>
> I am curious about something. That is the number of head bolts/studs on
> flathead engines.  I had an old car once that had a Continental 6 cyl
> and that sucker had about a million head bolts. Same with old Ford
> flatheads, lots of bolts or studs. And yet, with todays high compresion
> engines, greater dimensional tolerance requirements for flatnes, etc,
> most only have 10 bolts/studs for each bank of cyliners.  What's up with
> all the bolts on a low comp enigine?
>
> mayf, just in from the shop area...mostly doing nothing...

From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Mar 15 17:27:08 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:27:08 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
In-Reply-To: <A5462AA396154D71BF71CC366E1E1EFC@denpc>
References: <4B9EB1AD.4090300@mayfco.com> <4B9EC54D.00000A.03808@HOME>
	<A5462AA396154D71BF71CC366E1E1EFC@denpc>
Message-ID: <4B9ED05C.9090701@bradakis.com>

Another possible reason - bolts of inferior construction, compared to 
today's
alloys.  Back then they might stretch under load more than current head
fasteners.

mjb.

From mike_lackey at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 17:31:15 2010
From: mike_lackey at yahoo.com (Mike Lackey)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:31:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
In-Reply-To: <4B9EB1AD.4090300@mayfco.com>
References: <4B9EB1AD.4090300@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <73856.48818.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I dunno about flatheads...

But I know that ten fine thread, M11 head bolts
are not adequate on my Northstar V8...

Mike


----- Original Message ----
From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: LSR <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent:
Mon, March 15, 2010 3:16:13 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
I am curious about something. That is the number of head bolts/studs on
flathead engines.  I had an old car once that had a Continental 6 cyl and that
sucker had about a million head bolts. Same with old Ford flatheads, lots of
bolts or studs. And yet, with todays high compresion engines, greater
dimensional tolerance requirements for flatnes, etc, most only have 10
bolts/studs for each bank of cyliners.  What's up with all the bolts on a low
comp enigine?

mayf, just in from the shop area...mostly doing nothing...
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
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From v4gmr at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 17:35:05 2010
From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:35:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
In-Reply-To: <4B9EB1AD.4090300@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <463740.77545.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I was just looking at a Dart 302 Ford block. 6 bolts per cylinder. Needs a
special ead which the owner didn't have an his ARP stud set was too short for
the heads he did have. Back to the catalog.
--- On Mon, 3/15/10, drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:


From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 3:16 PM


I am curious about something. That is the number of head bolts/studs on
flathead engines.  I had an old car once that had a Continental 6 cyl and that
sucker had about a million head bolts. Same with old Ford flatheads, lots of
bolts or studs. And yet, with todays high compresion engines, greater
dimensional tolerance requirements for flatnes, etc, most only have 10
bolts/studs for each bank of cyliners.  What's up with all the bolts on a low
comp enigine?

mayf, just in from the shop area...mostly doing nothing...
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
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From NT788 at comcast.net  Mon Mar 15 17:49:30 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:49:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
In-Reply-To: <463740.77545.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <95400434.6802321268700570248.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Big area, thin head, exhaust heat?

Jack



I was just looking at a Dart 302 Ford block. 6 bolts per cylinder. Needs a
special ead which the owner didn't have an his ARP stud set was too short for
the heads he did have. Back to the catalog.
--- On Mon, 3/15/10, drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:


Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 3:16 PM


I am curious about something. That is the number of head bolts/studs on
flathead engines. B I had an old car once that had a Continental 6 cyl and
that
sucker had about a million head bolts. Same with old Ford flatheads, lots of
bolts or studs. And yet, with todays high compresion engines, greater
dimensional tolerance requirements for flatnes, etc, most only have 10
bolts/studs for each bank of cyliners. B What's up with all the bolts on a low
comp enigine?

mayf, just in from the shop area...mostly doing nothing...
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
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From v4gmr at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 18:11:50 2010
From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:11:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
In-Reply-To: <4B9ED05C.9090701@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <500918.97629.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

When you look at my Plymouth flathead it has the classic ten head bolts
sealing the cylinders and another 8 bolts above the valve area. When I
converted to OHV I just used the ten bolts around the cylinders and put plugs
in the other eight.

--- On Mon, 3/15/10, Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com> wrote:


From: Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 5:27 PM


Another possible reason - bolts of inferior construction, compared to today's
alloys.  Back then they might stretch under load more than current head
fasteners.

mjb.
_______________________________________________
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From race427 at aol.com  Mon Mar 15 19:02:59 2010
From: race427 at aol.com (race427 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:02:59 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Jerry Branch of Branch Flowmetrics looking for
 technical writings
Message-ID: <8CC92C3F0435AF1-59E8-4101@webmail-d091.sysops.aol.com>

Hi All,

    I am certain you are familiar with Mr. Jerry Branch of Flowmetrics
fame.  I am trying to locate a copy of his technical book which was
written about 20 yrs ago titled " Harley Davidson  1340 Evolution
Branch Flowmetrics.   Book had an orange cover and not very thick,
about 60 pages of technical writing which I enjoy reading.   Any help
in finding a copy is greatly appreciated.   I am fascinated by
Mr. Branch's  knowledge and workings with Harley Davidson engines.

   Thank you,       Tony Greco   LI,NY

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Mar 15 19:08:29 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:08:29 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: A new virus to watch out for
Message-ID: <3D94128EEF0C4E35995623EB2076EFDF@GlenPC>

This is real folks.
Glen
----- Original Message -----
From: RRocketscientist at aol.com
To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com ; sadunn12 at hickorytech.net ;
hobbsstephen at yahoo.com ; hoda.s.storage at boeing.com ; gvholombo at aol.com ;
jackebba at aol.com ; mills756 at bellsouth.net ; cartershelly at sbcglobal.net ;
rvs001 at cox.net
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:51 PM
Subject: Fwd: A new virus to watch out for






        Subject: Fwd: A new virus to watch out for




              http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/f1key.asp

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Mon Mar 15 19:13:55 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:13:55 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
Message-ID: <6A465380387241A58450F492301F17C0@john>

Rich
I'm curious , what OHV head bolts to a FH6 Plymouth ?
John


> When you look at my Plymouth flathead it has the classic ten head bolts
> sealing the cylinders and another 8 bolts above the valve area. When I
> converted to OHV I just used the ten bolts around the cylinders and put 
> plugs
> in the other eight.
>
> --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 5:27 PM
>
>
> Another possible reason - bolts of inferior construction, compared to 
> today's
> alloys.  Back then they might stretch under load more than current head
> fasteners.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/v4gmr at yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Mar 15 19:28:30 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:28:30 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Enola Gay Hangar Restoration
Message-ID: <SNT126-W4147B7F66065EEF949228AC92D0@phx.gbl>

 The Famed Enola Gay Hangar Restoration at Historic Wendover Airfield has
finally begun!

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_14675685

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Mar 15 20:33:09 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:33:09 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Enola Gay Hangar Restoration
In-Reply-To: <SNT126-W4147B7F66065EEF949228AC92D0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT126-W4147B7F66065EEF949228AC92D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B9EFBF5.8080605@bradakis.com>

I've been involved with events at the Wendover airport for at
least 15 years.  There has always been talk of restoring the hangar.
We shall see.

Oddly enough, I was thinking of it today.  For various reasons I am
moving out of a workshop in a complex where I've been a tenant
for, gee, 15 years.  Moving some heavy stuff around I finally
remembered where I left my handtruck - out at the last of the
Intermountain Vintage Racing events we held a few years ago.

So if you go to see the work on the hangar and spot a somewhat
decrepit gray handtruck with faded green  I V R   painted on it,
that's mine.


mjb.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Mar 15 20:34:20 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:34:20 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Propster Technology - Props
References: <75644.773dba40.38d04120@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CE806C3E3EC94C7286099319D25C0559@edc2750afa5a84>

Franklin -- If you have any car building resources, even the ability to
motivate someone else to actually build a prop driven car in partnership with
yourself doing what you can to support the project do it, then you should do
it.    Proof of concept does not necessarily require a 400 mph car and a
million dollar budget.  Some incredible things are being done with very small
displacement engines in streamliners both 2 and 4 wheel.  This is decidedly
low budget stuff.
I realize the SCTA/BNI rules and operational structure do not have a place at
the present time for prop driven vehicles.  But there are two other
organizations that regularly use the Salt for speed trials. They can probably
be more flexible.  And there are several western dry lakes where you could
easily set up fairly accurate clocks of your own to do actual speed runs
without actually involving a sanctioning organization.
Talk is cheap.  You need to actually do it.  Mathematical scaling of the
performance of a 125 mph car, i.e. power in to drag power, can be a credible
predictor of performance of an unlimited size/engine streamliner.
Meantime your compilation of history, as I have suggested before, needs a more
formal and permanent storage location than the my disc drive.  If nothing else
please organize it into chapters of a book along with illustrations and
publish under Lulu or one of the other self-publishing internet sources.
In spite of your own somewhat controversial and occasionally annoying persona
and presentation I sincerely feel that you have something to contribute here.
I, personally, do not want to see your efforts lost in a world of an
increasing flood of data and silly copyright laws.
Ed Weldon
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: PROPSTERGUY at aol.com
  To: (3 addressees)
  Cc: (a long list, Ed Weldon included)
  Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:04 PM
  Subject: Propster Technology - Props



  There are those who would say to me the idea of a prop-driven car for
Bonneville is farfetched or impractical or that there is no way a prop-driven
car could accelerate faster than a Bonneville streamliner.

  To those people, I say baloney. I say they do not have the vaguest notion or
the slightest idea of the technology available off the shelf.

  I say the test results of just one manufacturer with a 550 horsepower engine
showed 605 lbs thrust at 3,000 rpm, 1,055 lbs thrust at 4,000 rpm, and 1,480
lbs thrust at 4,750 rpm.

  I say in a 1,000 lbs gross weight car that's 1.4g acceleration when no
wheel-driven streamliner in the history of Bonneville has accelerated at
better than .6g.

  I say there are plenty of propellers in sizes suitable for a prop-driven car
capable of handling up to 1,000 horsepower.

  Sincerely, Franklin Ratliff

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon Mar 15 21:45:14 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:45:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Land-speed Digest, Vol 4, Issue 62
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8468.1268709210.6563.land-speed@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.8468.1268709210.6563.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <001201cac4c3$7859fa70$690def50$@net>

Since I don't have a coordinate measuring machine (CMM) I would probably use
a string to measure completely around the flathead CC. It may be the lineal
distance around the flathead CC is much greater than an OHV. Thus more bolts
needed for clamping force over a greater lineal distance. 

From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
I am curious about something. That is the number of head bolts/studs on
flathead engines. (snip)  . . . What's up with all the bolts on a low comp
enigine?

From v4gmr at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 06:42:04 2010
From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 06:42:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
In-Reply-To: <6A465380387241A58450F492301F17C0@john>
Message-ID: <514683.50543.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Ford Y block and Small block Windsor and Cleveland. 8 of the 10 bolts line up.
The other two I sunk pipe plugs in the deck surface and drilled and tapped
them to fit. The Y block has the correct valve sequence to work with the
Plymouth cam. Write me at V4GMR at yahoo.com for pictures if you like.  RF

--- On Mon, 3/15/10, John Burk <joyseydevil at comcast.net> wrote:


From: John Burk <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 7:13 PM


Rich
I'm curious , what OHV head bolts to a FH6 Plymouth ?
John


> When you look at my Plymouth flathead it has the classic ten head bolts
> sealing the cylinders and another 8 bolts above the valve area. When I
> converted to OHV I just used the ten bolts around the cylinders and put
plugs
> in the other eight.
>
> --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Old Flathead Engines
> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 5:27 PM
>
>
> Another possible reason - bolts of inferior construction, compared to
today's
> alloys.  Back then they might stretch under load more than current head
> fasteners.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/v4gmr at yahoo.com
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From saltfevr at q.com  Tue Mar 16 20:12:14 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:12:14 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Enola Gay Hangar Restoration
In-Reply-To: <4B9EFBF5.8080605@bradakis.com>
References: <SNT126-W4147B7F66065EEF949228AC92D0@phx.gbl>,
	<4B9EFBF5.8080605@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <SNT126-W6F660A4BE0D050C97469BC92C0@phx.gbl>

Mark;



I remember The Intermountain Vintage Racing Site. You had some nice pictures
on there!  Always wanted to come out and see what IVR was all about. Then came
a little race track called Millers, and well you know the rest.

Sure hope the Historics return to MMP in 2011?

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:33:09 -0600
> From: mark at bradakis.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Enola Gay Hangar Restoration
>
> I've been involved with events at the Wendover airport for at
> least 15 years. There has always been talk of restoring the hangar.
> We shall see.
>
> Oddly enough, I was thinking of it today. For various reasons I am
> moving out of a workshop in a complex where I've been a tenant
> for, gee, 15 years. Moving some heavy stuff around I finally
> remembered where I left my handtruck - out at the last of the
> Intermountain Vintage Racing events we held a few years ago.
>
> So if you go to see the work on the hangar and spot a somewhat
> decrepit gray handtruck with faded green I V R painted on it,
> that's mine.
>
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltfevr at q.com

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 16:45:37 2010
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:45:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Mojave Mile
Message-ID: <938780.19979.qm@web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Posted on the www.landracing.com forums:
 
"After reading the news of the NASCAR test at Talladega yesterday, where the
cars ran as fast as 213, I had a thought. Where were the dozens of cars that
would run the salt, if a class were available, at this event?"

Good question.




XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!
A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
  

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Wed Mar 17 17:01:58 2010
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:01:58 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Mojave Mile
In-Reply-To: <938780.19979.qm@web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <938780.19979.qm@web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B945BAE6EF7340BEABB273B159DBCFB3@DaveSatellite>

We ran 218 in the 90's with Ron Bouchard driving and won from fourth on the 
last lap offthe 4'th corner.. saved it all for the last minute and never 
showing what might be done.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
To: "land speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:45 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Mojave Mile


> Posted on the www.landracing.com forums:
>
> "After reading the news of the NASCAR test at Talladega yesterday, where 
> the
> cars ran as fast as 213, I had a thought. Where were the dozens of cars 
> that
> would run the salt, if a class were available, at this event?"
>
> Good question.
>
>
>
>
> XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!
> A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
> http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
> 1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
> www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/ddahlgren at snet.net 

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 17:33:23 2010
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:33:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Mojave Mile
In-Reply-To: <B945BAE6EF7340BEABB273B159DBCFB3@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <292668.16682.qm@web52508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dave,
 
You should let LVSALT(?) know. He may need some help to get going. There is a
second event scheduled for 09/25-26 later this year.
 
DW
XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!


A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
  

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net> wrote:


From: Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Mojave Mile
To: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>, "land speed"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 5:01 PM


We ran 218 in the 90's with Ron Bouchard driving and won from fourth on the
last lap offthe 4'th corner.. saved it all for the last minute and never
showing what might be done.
----- Original Message ----- From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
To: "land speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:45 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Mojave Mile


> Posted on the www.landracing.com forums:
>
> "After reading the news of the NASCAR test at Talladega yesterday, where
the
> cars ran as fast as 213, I had a thought. Where were the dozens of cars
that
> would run the salt, if a class were available, at this event?"
>
> Good question.
>
>
>
>
> XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!
> A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
> http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
> 1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
> www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/ddahlgren at snet.net

From race427 at aol.com  Wed Mar 17 19:14:16 2010
From: race427 at aol.com (race427 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:14:16 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Jerry Branch of Branch Flowmetrics any other articles
	to read?
Message-ID: <8CC9457D81EB5E5-5730-84D8@webmail-d091.sysops.aol.com>

Hi all,

    Thanks to Dale I was able to locate and purchase the Branch
Flowmetrics book from a used book dealer in Australia.  Thanks Dale!!
Any other motorcycle racers know of where I can locate more written
articles on or about Jerry Branch and Branch Flowmetrics?

   Just enjoy reading technical articles to learn as much as I can.

   Thank you for your help !!

    Tony Greco   LI,NY

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Mar 18 08:32:33 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:32:33 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
Message-ID: <91812A3D-DB1C-4C0E-A744-B5598B5C5097@comcast.net>

http://ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=6433

To continue his allegiance to ethanol, Hajek has begun production of a new
flex-fuel race car, a 2011 Mustang. This time Hajek is going further with
biobased products. Along with the use of E85, the car will be made with
bioplastic side panels provided by Ford. The hood and fenders are all
soy-based plastic. The advantage to the soy plastic body panels is the weight.
The soy is lighter and not petroleum-based plastic. This stuff is renewable,
more earth friendly, he explains.

Ask any Utah license plate collector about the soybean based plastic license
plates and goats.  That plate is one of the most difficult to collect and one
reason is goats seemed to like to eat them.  Not that there were that many
goats running around loose in Utah in 1944 ... !  The plates were a soy based
plastic with a paper printed license pasted onto the backing. They were not
that durable and I remember how many of them cracked when someone "parked by
ear."

I'm laughing because I had to call Jim Wright to confirm the year they used
the soy plastic plates.  He wasn't even a twinkle in his father's eye in
1944.

Wes

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 08:58:36 2010
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:58:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
In-Reply-To: <91812A3D-DB1C-4C0E-A744-B5598B5C5097@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <903015.92973.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Well, Brent will have to keep the goats at bay or risk the chance that he may
not have any fenders for the return run.
 
DW
XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!


A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
  

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net> wrote:


From: Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 8:32 AM


http://ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=6433

To continue his allegiance to ethanol, Hajek has begun production of a new
flex-fuel race car, a 2011 Mustang. This time Hajek is going further with
biobased products. Along with the use of E85, the car will be made with
bioplastic side panels provided by Ford. The hood and fenders are all
soy-based plastic. The advantage to the soy plastic body panels is the
weight.
The soy is lighter and not petroleum-based plastic. This stuff is renewable,
more earth friendly, he explains.

Ask any Utah license plate collector about the soybean based plastic license
plates and goats.  That plate is one of the most difficult to collect and one
reason is goats seemed to like to eat them.  Not that there were that many
goats running around loose in Utah in 1944 ... !  The plates were a soy based
plastic with a paper printed license pasted onto the backing. They were not
that durable and I remember how many of them cracked when someone "parked by
ear."

I'm laughing because I had to call Jim Wright to confirm the year they used
the soy plastic plates.  He wasn't even a twinkle in his father's eye in
1944.

Wes
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/dwarner230 at yahoo.com

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 09:08:05 2010
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:08:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] car #204 solved
Message-ID: <278416.50651.qm@web52508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have solved the confusion surrounding the photo from the Life magazine
archieves.
 
I have a book that was given to the attendees at the NHRA Mickey Thompson
exhibit presented by Gale Banks.
 
Page 6 shows a photo of #204 pushing Mickey's twin engined Bantam coupe,
#239.
The caption reads:
"In 1953 Mickey entered the infamous Carrera Panamericana (Mexican Road Race)
in a six cylinder Ford sponsered by Alhambra's Ellico Ford. He had a tough
time in the grueling contest, but the Ford survived to serve as a Bonneville
push car."
 
I am sorry that since my computer was repaired that my scanner no longer
works. If I find the software to reload the scanner I will link to a photo.
Maybe Mitech Mike or someone else who was at the exhibit debut could scan page
6.
 
DW
XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!


A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
  

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Mar 18 09:10:05 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:10:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
In-Reply-To: <91812A3D-DB1C-4C0E-A744-B5598B5C5097@comcast.net>
References: <91812A3D-DB1C-4C0E-A744-B5598B5C5097@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CA03386D7D304FB49E0842901B2F3D58@tiger>

Wes;

I also heard that dogs liked to eat those license plates.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:32 AM
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?

> http://ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=6433
>
> To continue his allegiance to ethanol, Hajek has begun production of a new
> flex-fuel race car, a 2011 Mustang. This time Hajek is going further with
> biobased products. Along with the use of E85, the car will be made with
> bioplastic side panels provided by Ford. The hood and fenders are all
> soy-based plastic. The advantage to the soy plastic body panels is the 
> weight.
> The soy is lighter and not petroleum-based plastic. This stuff is 
> renewable,
> more earth friendly, he explains.
>
> Ask any Utah license plate collector about the soybean based plastic 
> license
> plates and goats.  That plate is one of the most difficult to collect and 
> one
> reason is goats seemed to like to eat them.  Not that there were that many
> goats running around loose in Utah in 1944 ... !  The plates were a soy 
> based
> plastic with a paper printed license pasted onto the backing. They were 
> not
> that durable and I remember how many of them cracked when someone "parked 
> by
> ear."
>
> I'm laughing because I had to call Jim Wright to confirm the year they 
> used
> the soy plastic plates.  He wasn't even a twinkle in his father's eye in
> 1944.
>
> Wes

From gary_ellen at msn.com  Thu Mar 18 09:54:48 2010
From: gary_ellen at msn.com (Ellen Wilkinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:54:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
In-Reply-To: <91812A3D-DB1C-4C0E-A744-B5598B5C5097@comcast.net>
	<CA03386D7D304FB49E0842901B2F3D58@tiger>
References: <91812A3D-DB1C-4C0E-A744-B5598B5C5097@comcast.net>
	<CA03386D7D304FB49E0842901B2F3D58@tiger>
Message-ID: <SNT135-ds1BB0AD97D0C1DDC8C6D50F92B0@phx.gbl>

I have recently heard anecdotal stories about rodents eating soy based wire
insulation in some import cars. Anyone else heard this?
Gary W
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Neil Albaugh<mailto:neil at dbelltech.com>
  To: Wester Potter<mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net> ; LAND SPEED
LIST<mailto:land-speed at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:10 AM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?


  Wes;

  I also heard that dogs liked to eat those license plates.

  Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Mar 18 10:01:11 2010
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:01:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
References: <91812A3D-DB1C-4C0E-A744-B5598B5C5097@comcast.net>
	<CA03386D7D304FB49E0842901B2F3D58@tiger>
Message-ID: <00d601cac6bc$9eac1730$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Didn't Henry Ford sink millions of dollars into growing Soy beans because he 
thought they were going to be the next auto body material.

Doug in big ditch


>
> I also heard that dogs liked to eat those license plates.
>
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>
>>
>> To continue his allegiance to ethanol, Hajek has begun production of a 
>> new
>> flex-fuel race car, a 2011 Mustang. This time Hajek is going further with
>> biobased products. Along with the use of E85, the car will be made with
>> bioplastic side panels provided by Ford. The hood and fenders are all
>> soy-based plastic. The advantage to the soy plastic body panels is the 
>> weight.
>> The soy is lighter and not petroleum-based plastic. This stuff is 
>> renewable,
>> more earth friendly, he explains.
>>
>> Ask any Utah license plate collector about the soybean based plastic 
>> license
>> plates and goats.  That plate is one of the most difficult to collect and 
>> one
>> reason is goats seemed to like to eat them.  Not that there were that 
>> many
>> goats running around loose in Utah in 1944 ... !  The plates were a soy 
>> based
>> plastic with a paper printed license pasted onto the backing. They were 
>> not
>> that durable and I remember how many of them cracked when someone "parked 
>> by
>> ear."
>>
>> I'm laughing because I had to call Jim Wright to confirm the year they 
>> used
>> the soy plastic plates.  He wasn't even a twinkle in his father's eye in
>> 1944.
>>
>> Wes

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Thu Mar 18 11:15:57 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:15:57 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
Message-ID: <87E8A3B3E3BD41A7A467073BFBD7C74D@john>

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/image/getimage-idx?viewid=SHS00016;cc=sdlphotos;entryid=x-16;quality=m600;view=image



> Didn't Henry Ford sink millions of dollars into growing Soy beans because 
> he thought they were going to be the next auto body material.
>
> Doug in big ditch
>
>
>>
>> I also heard that dogs liked to eat those license plates.
>>
>> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>>
>>>
>>> To continue his allegiance to ethanol, Hajek has begun production of a 
>>> new
>>> flex-fuel race car, a 2011 Mustang. This time Hajek is going further 
>>> with
>>> biobased products. Along with the use of E85, the car will be made with
>>> bioplastic side panels provided by Ford. The hood and fenders are all
>>> soy-based plastic. The advantage to the soy plastic body panels is the 
>>> weight.
>>> The soy is lighter and not petroleum-based plastic. This stuff is 
>>> renewable,
>>> more earth friendly, he explains.
>>>
>>> Ask any Utah license plate collector about the soybean based plastic 
>>> license
>>> plates and goats.  That plate is one of the most difficult to collect 
>>> and one
>>> reason is goats seemed to like to eat them.  Not that there were that 
>>> many
>>> goats running around loose in Utah in 1944 ... !  The plates were a soy 
>>> based
>>> plastic with a paper printed license pasted onto the backing. They were 
>>> not
>>> that durable and I remember how many of them cracked when someone 
>>> "parked by
>>> ear."
>>>
>>> I'm laughing because I had to call Jim Wright to confirm the year they 
>>> used
>>> the soy plastic plates.  He wasn't even a twinkle in his father's eye in
>>> 1944.
>>>
>>> Wes
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 13:32:57 2010
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:32:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
In-Reply-To: <SNT135-ds1BB0AD97D0C1DDC8C6D50F92B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <202002.55393.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Toyota gas pedal components ? (someone had to say it)
Dale K
Cleveland OH

 It is the province of knowledge to speak and it is the privilege of wisdom to
listen.
~ Oliver Wendell Holmes


--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Ellen Wilkinson <gary_ellen at msn.com> wrote:

From: Ellen Wilkinson <gary_ellen at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
To: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>, "Wester Potter"
<wester6935 at comcast.net>, "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 12:54 PM

I have recently heard anecdotal stories about rodents eating soy based wire
insulation in some import cars. Anyone else heard this?
Gary W
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Neil Albaugh<mailto:neil at dbelltech.com>
  To: Wester Potter<mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net> ; LAND SPEED
LIST<mailto:land-speed at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:10 AM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?


  Wes;

  I also heard that dogs liked to eat those license plates.

  Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/dmirror3 at yahoo.com

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Thu Mar 18 13:33:04 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:33:04 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] car #204 solved
In-Reply-To: <278416.50651.qm@web52508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <278416.50651.qm@web52508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <146BE1D5A8F44444863840E2C9C698D7@Dell4400>

Great,
 the second photo I found of the 204 Ford shows it in line behind the 239 
twin flathead...
also explains the second person sitting in the shotgun seat in both images..

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7395af45479ab76c_large


                      Thank you
--------------------------------------------------
From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:08 PM
To: "land speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] car #204 solved

> I have solved the confusion surrounding the photo from the Life magazine
> archieves.
>
> I have a book that was given to the attendees at the NHRA Mickey Thompson
> exhibit presented by Gale Banks.
>
> Page 6 shows a photo of #204 pushing Mickey's twin engined Bantam coupe,
> #239.
> The caption reads:
> "In 1953 Mickey entered the infamous Carrera Panamericana (Mexican Road 
> Race)
> in a six cylinder Ford sponsered by Alhambra's Ellico Ford. He had a tough
> time in the grueling contest, but the Ford survived to serve as a 
> Bonneville
> push car."
> >
> DW
> XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Thu Mar 18 14:49:01 2010
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:49:01 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
In-Reply-To: <00d601cac6bc$9eac1730$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
References: <91812A3D-DB1C-4C0E-A744-B5598B5C5097@comcast.net>
	<CA03386D7D304FB49E0842901B2F3D58@tiger>
	<00d601cac6bc$9eac1730$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <061BC1637CBA4DD7BEEE5D811136A4CA@ChrisHarrisPC>

> Didn't Henry Ford sink millions of dollars into growing Soy beans because 
> he thought they were going to be the next auto body material.
>
> Doug in big ditch

Don't know how much he spent Doug, but yes, he certainly developed soy based 
body panels in the post war 40's.
Chris Harris...........NZed. 

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Mar 18 15:29:05 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:29:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
In-Reply-To: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05B2EEEB@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>
References: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05B2EEEB@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <6C4FB583CDD74BC7924B9FE8134FBC32@tiger>

Ever climbed in the Wind River Range, David?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at catholichealth.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:44 AM
To: "Ellen Wilkinson" <gary_ellen at msn.com>; "Neil Albaugh" 
<neil at dbelltech.com>; "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>; "LAND SPEED 
LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?

> When I was married my charming bride and I went to Canada for some
> outdoorsy type fun and games.
>
> Barb did a lot of research about the Bugaboos (spectacular scenery for
> my camera) and how to climb and such.  The website warned of rodents
> eating your vehicle, and how one should use some scrap pig wire left in
> the parking area of the trailhead with some fencepost and make a fence
> around your vehicle by laying the pig wire against the truck and piling
> fence posts and large rocks  around the bottom. (and this keeps out
> rodents?)
>
> After 50 miles of logging road we found the 2-track trail to the parking
> area (just about dark) so I wheeled my new, supercharged, shiny black,
> 4x4 up this trail to the parking area.  When we got up the hill and saw
> many other vehicles "fenced in."  One in particular had 4 or 5 large
> porcupines (technically rodents) trying to dig under the fence.  When
> they saw my new truck, the little porcupine eyes got a sparkle in them
> and they charged [1] for my truck.
>
> These "rodents" are famous at trailheads in Colorado - they eat wire
> looms, radiator hoses (anti-freeze doesn't faze them) and anything soft.
>
> Barb still laughs when she recalls the hasty retreat of the mighty new
> supercharged truck!
>
> David, no longer climbs anything that won't love me back.
>
> [1] a porcupine charges about as fast as a land speed racer walks in for
> a prostate exam.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ellen Wilkinson
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:55 AM
> To: Neil Albaugh; Wester Potter; LAND SPEED LIST
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
>
> I have recently heard anecdotal stories about rodents eating soy based
> wire
> insulation in some import cars. Anyone else heard this?
> Gary W
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Neil Albaugh<mailto:neil at dbelltech.com>
>  To: Wester Potter<mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net> ; LAND SPEED
> LIST<mailto:land-speed at autox.team.net>
>  Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:10 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
>
>
>  Wes;
>
>  I also heard that dogs liked to eat those license plates.
>
>  Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Mar 18 16:20:12 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:20:12 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
In-Reply-To: <6C4FB583CDD74BC7924B9FE8134FBC32@tiger>
References: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05B2EEEB@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>
	<6C4FB583CDD74BC7924B9FE8134FBC32@tiger>
Message-ID: <4BA2B52C.5050009@bradakis.com>

Neil Albaugh wrote:
> Ever climbed in the Wind River Range, David?

You folks are lucky.  This would be a great opportunity for me to go
on and on and on and on about the 1977 Weird Winter Wall trip.  It was
a multi-week attempt to do the 2,000 foot north face of Mt. Hooker in
winter.  Had it been successful, it would have been a  significant event
in North American mountaineering.  As it turned out, no one actually died
it just felt that way before we got back to the foothills north of Lander.

Enough for now.  I really do need to write up the tale of this epic before
memory fails me altogether.

mjb.

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 16:31:37 2010
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:31:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] car #204 solved
In-Reply-To: <146BE1D5A8F44444863840E2C9C698D7@Dell4400>
Message-ID: <644242.14239.qm@web52508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

That photo would be just before the one I have during push off.
 
DW
XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!


A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
  

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, John Szalay <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com> wrote:


From: John Szalay <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] car #204 solved
To: "land speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 1:33 PM


Great,
the second photo I found of the 204 Ford shows it in line behind the 239 twin
flathead...
also explains the second person sitting in the shotgun seat in both images..

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7395af45479ab76c_large


                     Thank you
--------------------------------------------------
From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:08 PM
To: "land speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] car #204 solved

> I have solved the confusion surrounding the photo from the Life magazine
> archieves.
>
> I have a book that was given to the attendees at the NHRA Mickey Thompson
> exhibit presented by Gale Banks.
>
> Page 6 shows a photo of #204 pushing Mickey's twin engined Bantam coupe,
> #239.
> The caption reads:
> "In 1953 Mickey entered the infamous Carrera Panamericana (Mexican Road
Race)
> in a six cylinder Ford sponsered by Alhambra's Ellico Ford. He had a tough
> time in the grueling contest, but the Ford survived to serve as a
Bonneville
> push car."
> >
> DW
> XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/dwarner230 at yahoo.com

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Mar 18 16:50:24 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:50:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
References: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05B2EEEB@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net><6C4FB583CDD74BC7924B9FE8134FBC32@tiger>
	<4BA2B52C.5050009@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <389A5693C25D49CCAD06AAF6123DCC05@edc2750afa5a84>

Mark -- Here's an interesting story of Mt Hooker North Face climbs:
http://jimdockery.com/climbaround/N.America/ShadyLady/ShadyLady.Hooker.html
and some further comments about Jim Dockery:
http://www.utahclimbers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=31443
And I thought we landspeed racing people were the sick ones........
I got a bit of a laugh about the innovative use of rocks (when all else 
fails)
We gotta hear your side of the winter sojourn story.  Dockery doesn't seem 
to want to say much about it.
Ed Weldon (thanks, Google)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?


> Neil Albaugh wrote:
>> Ever climbed in the Wind River Range, David?
> You folks are lucky.  This would be a great opportunity for me to go
> on and on and on and on about the 1977 Weird Winter Wall trip.  It was
> a multi-week attempt to do the 2,000 foot north face of Mt. Hooker in
> winter.  Had it been successful, it would have been a  significant event
> in North American mountaineering.  As it turned out, no one actually died
> it just felt that way before we got back to the foothills north of Lander.
> Enough for now.  I really do need to write up the tale of this epic before
> memory fails me altogether.
> mjb.

From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Mar 18 17:25:53 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:25:53 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Wind Rivers
In-Reply-To: <389A5693C25D49CCAD06AAF6123DCC05@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05B2EEEB@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net><6C4FB583CDD74BC7924B9FE8134FBC32@tiger>
	<4BA2B52C.5050009@bradakis.com>
	<389A5693C25D49CCAD06AAF6123DCC05@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <4BA2C491.10208@bradakis.com>

Quoting Dockery:

    Our audacious winter attempt was the hardest, most unenjoyable trip 
I have ever
    taken in the mountains.

That pretty much sums it up.  And when he says "minimal food" that is 
somewhat
understated.  We left a big cache of food at the base of Hooker, 
thinking it would
take us 3 - 4 days to get back, not 7.  A few bullion cubes and some 
Starburst
candies were not really enough to support the calories we needed to get 
out alive,
but we managed.  Maybe I'll talk about the Rock Springs McDonalds in another
message.  And the Safeway across the street.  And of course the back of 
chips
in the trailer.

This is not the appropriate venue for detailed discussion, but I will 
say that  the
morning of April 1st, 1977, sitting on some ice cold, snow glazed rock 
somewhere
on the east side of the Wind Rivers, watching the sun come up through 
the wispy
clouds in a burning blaze of crimson glory and *knowing* then and there that
we would, somehow, after all, make it out alive is a time I will never 
forget.


"The dawn in russet mantle clad climbs yon eastward hills"

Taken from a play called Hamlet, by, uh, what was his name again?


mjb.

From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Mar 18 17:49:17 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:49:17 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Slowly the lazily drifting vultures begin their
	descent...
Message-ID: <4BA2CA0D.1050407@bradakis.com>

In case any of you happen to be in the Salt Lake area this weekend.

mjb.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[Bmcu] Slowly the lazily drifting vultures begin their descent...
Date: 	Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:05:15 -0600
From: 	Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com>

	


Okay, maybe that subject line is a bit overly dramatic. I hate to

treat this list as my own personal advertising tool, but it hasn't
stopped me yet ;-)

As I've mentioned before, I am getting thrown out of the shop at
Garco, where I've been a tenant for about 15 years.  One accumulates
a *lot* of stuff in that time.  Most of it has been moved out and stashed
in various places, but there are still things left.  Maybe I'll post a
picture in the next day or two to give folks an idea if this plan is
worth it to them or not.

Anyway, here's the plan.  This coming saturday and sunday I'll be
down there.  Okay, I'll be down there every day this week, but over
the weekend it will be a going out of business sale, so to speak.

I'll be there from noon to 3 pm both days this weekend. Come on
down and see if any of the fixtures, furnishings and such might be
of use to you.  Shelves, file cabinets, some  galvanized pipe and
fittings for those of you plumbing your own place for compressed
air, various random parts that may have some value.  A light fixture
or two, lumber - whatever you buy or just haul away will mean that
much less work for me.  I'll try not to trick you into helping me
move the big compressor out of the far corner.

The shop is at 3994 South 300 West, unit #59.  If you take I-15 get
off at 45th South.  Head east for a few hundred feet, turn north up
3rd west ( Commerce Drive ) at the light.  Go up to almost the
viaduct at 3900 south, turn west into the complex of the dingy brown
shops behind the gates that used to work.  My place is up at the west end
of the central building.  Parking will most likely be a real problem - one
of the things I will *not* miss about that place.  You may need to walk a
ways, we can work something out if you need to load a pallet rack or an
engine block in your vehicle.

If you come in via 3900 South ( that GT6 I mentioned at Main and 39th is
gone, shucks ) you need to turn south at the crest of the viaduct, down the
hill, past Mountain States then right into Garco.  Feel free to give me 
a call
at 801-673-6231, though some of you are well aware of how prompt I
am about answering the phone, or returning email for that matter.  I'll
try to respond in a timely fashion with info about what's left, directions,
etc.  And bring cash - I won't be set up to take credit cards down there.
I thought I would be out by now and had the power shut off.  No laptop or
any such thing.  Drat.

Hope to see a few of you there, I obviously will not be going on the
Grantsville run saturday.  So it goes.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Mar 19 12:50:36 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:50:36 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Top 10 Flybys
References: <B7BE32074FAB418B9C005E9C69568C61@NewellPC>
Message-ID: <977E14E3-5388-4C66-AE28-9A0701367F83@comcast.net>

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Newell Thornton" <Newell_T@
> Date: March 19, 2010 9:18:47 AM MDT
> To: "Wester Potter"
> Subject: Fw: Top 10 Flybys
>
>
>
>
>
> Subject: Top 10 Flybys
>
>
>
> These are fairly impressive    CC
>
>
>
>
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/pics-videos-buffet-149/679725-kb-mammoth
-flyby-nah-f16-jet-noise-inside.html

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Mar 19 16:29:23 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:29:23 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] far far Off Topic... A Tea Party Question
Message-ID: <4BA408D3.6060909@mayfco.com>

Is there one or more among us who is a "member" of the Tea Party 
movement? If so, email me off list? I have a question or two..
mayf

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Mar 19 16:33:47 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:33:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?
In-Reply-To: <4BA2B52C.5050009@bradakis.com>
References: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05B2EEEB@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net><6C4FB583CDD74BC7924B9FE8134FBC32@tiger>
	<4BA2B52C.5050009@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <A02A0C1F08854E4FB7EF2B60A84C1332@tiger>

Mark;

Our trip to the Wind River Range in 1969 was described by my friend as a 
"self rescue" :) We went in from Elkheart Park through Island Lake and on to 
Upper Titcomb Lake where we made our base camp for a climb up Mt. Woodrow 
Wilson. The conditions were bad-- the ice-filled colouir was treacherous 
with an ice crust over a layer of snow so ice screws & ice pitons would not 
hold and the rock was not solid enough for a reliable piton belay. Half way 
up the colouir, a blizzard struck and there was a thunderstorm with 
lightning striking just over our heads. We were on the rock face by then so 
a rapid retreat was out of the question; fortunately the shape of the 
colouir made a Faraday Cage so we didn't get hit but that close you can hear 
the "snap" that precedes the strike. We got down to the Sphinx Glacier after 
dark and crossed by moonlight. After the moon set we stumbled down, around 
the lake and back to camp around 1:00 AM.

I've seen recent pictures of that area and there is nowhere near the snow 
that was there back in "the olden days." We climbed Gannett Peak the year 
before by going in from the east side of the Continental Divide.

Hat's off to you for a mid- winter attempt-- the weather in this Range is 
dangerous. Our expeditions were in late September- early October and that 
was considered past the climbing season. Did you take any pictures?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 4:20 PM
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Soy based plastic?

> Neil Albaugh wrote:
>> Ever climbed in the Wind River Range, David?
>
> You folks are lucky.  This would be a great opportunity for me to go
> on and on and on and on about the 1977 Weird Winter Wall trip.  It was
> a multi-week attempt to do the 2,000 foot north face of Mt. Hooker in
> winter.  Had it been successful, it would have been a  significant event
> in North American mountaineering.  As it turned out, no one actually died
> it just felt that way before we got back to the foothills north of Lander.
>
> Enough for now.  I really do need to write up the tale of this epic before
> memory fails me altogether.
>
> mjb.

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Mar 19 16:50:02 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:50:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wind Rivers
In-Reply-To: <4BA2C491.10208@bradakis.com>
References: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05B2EEEB@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net><6C4FB583CDD74BC7924B9FE8134FBC32@tiger><4BA2B52C.5050009@bradakis.com><389A5693C25D49CCAD06AAF6123DCC05@edc2750afa5a84>
	<4BA2C491.10208@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <8A03247DEB074DAD8888835131A1E0D4@tiger>

Mark;

Just to add to my previous post about our '69 climb of Mt. Woodrow Wilson--  
when I returned to Pinedale my car had been towed away and I wound up 
spending three days in jail. What a trip!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:25 PM
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Wind Rivers

> Quoting Dockery:
>
>    Our audacious winter attempt was the hardest, most unenjoyable trip I 
> have ever
>    taken in the mountains.
>
> That pretty much sums it up.  And when he says "minimal food" that is 
> somewhat
> understated.  We left a big cache of food at the base of Hooker, thinking 
> it would
> take us 3 - 4 days to get back, not 7.  A few bullion cubes and some 
> Starburst
> candies were not really enough to support the calories we needed to get 
> out alive,
> but we managed.  Maybe I'll talk about the Rock Springs McDonalds in 
> another
> message.  And the Safeway across the street.  And of course the back of 
> chips
> in the trailer.
>
> This is not the appropriate venue for detailed discussion, but I will say 
> that  the
> morning of April 1st, 1977, sitting on some ice cold, snow glazed rock 
> somewhere
> on the east side of the Wind Rivers, watching the sun come up through the 
> wispy
> clouds in a burning blaze of crimson glory and *knowing* then and there 
> that
> we would, somehow, after all, make it out alive is a time I will never 
> forget.
>
>
> "The dawn in russet mantle clad climbs yon eastward hills"
>
> Taken from a play called Hamlet, by, uh, what was his name again?
>
>
> mjb.

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Fri Mar 19 16:56:55 2010
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 19:56:55 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Wind Rivers
In-Reply-To: <8A03247DEB074DAD8888835131A1E0D4@tiger>
References: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05B2EEEB@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net><6C4FB583CDD74BC7924B9FE8134FBC32@tiger><4BA2B52C.5050009@bradakis.com><389A5693C25D49CCAD06AAF6123DCC05@edc2750afa5a84>
	<4BA2C491.10208@bradakis.com> <8A03247DEB074DAD8888835131A1E0D4@tiger>
Message-ID: <2C469952-130E-4017-927B-D0CEE2B8708A@nancyandjon.org>

On Mar 19, 2010, at 7:50 PM, Neil Albaugh wrote:

Mark;

Just to add to my previous post about our '69 climb of Mt. Woodrow Wilson--
when I returned to Pinedale my car had been towed away and I wound up spending
three days in jail. What a trip!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ



Neil, it sounds like you get all of the fun.  How about leaving some for the
rest of us?

      Jon Wennerberg
Tall guy with moustache
and a pair of 2 Club hats

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Mar 19 17:13:27 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:13:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wind Rivers
In-Reply-To: <2C469952-130E-4017-927B-D0CEE2B8708A@nancyandjon.org>
References: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05B2EEEB@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net><6C4FB583CDD74BC7924B9FE8134FBC32@tiger><4BA2B52C.5050009@bradakis.com><389A5693C25D49CCAD06AAF6123DCC05@edc2750afa5a84>
	<4BA2C491.10208@bradakis.com> <8A03247DEB074DAD8888835131A1E0D4@tiger>
	<2C469952-130E-4017-927B-D0CEE2B8708A@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <4043DB14BAC34C28AC6310FC4E281320@tiger>

Well, I missed the fun over on the East Coast at Laurinburg, Jon.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jon Wennerberg" <jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:56 PM
To: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>
Cc: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>; "LAND SPEED LIST" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Wind Rivers

>
> On Mar 19, 2010, at 7:50 PM, Neil Albaugh wrote:
>
> Mark;
>
> Just to add to my previous post about our '69 climb of Mt. Woodrow 
> Wilson--  when I returned to Pinedale my car had been towed away and I 
> wound up spending three days in jail. What a trip!
>
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>
>
>
> Neil, it sounds like you get all of the fun.  How about leaving some for 
> the rest of us?
>
>      Jon Wennerberg
> Tall guy with moustache
> and a pair of 2 Club hats

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Mar 20 22:15:01 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 01:15:01 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Russ Meeks
Message-ID: <BFB741B3C32E490886337C3F450BFE38@john>

Does Russ Meeks still do header coating ?

From jdincau at qnet.com  Sat Mar 20 23:17:35 2010
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 23:17:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Russ Meeks
In-Reply-To: <BFB741B3C32E490886337C3F450BFE38@john>
References: <BFB741B3C32E490886337C3F450BFE38@john>
Message-ID: <A1EA696A52654BED9165CA35C1624B94@denpc>

Yes http://www.finishlinecoatings.com/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 10:15 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Russ Meeks


> Does Russ Meeks still do header coating ?
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/jdincau at qnet.com 

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Mar 21 11:09:22 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:09:22 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Some great old planes - non LSR
References: <561339.55277.qm@web82005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5C7AC476-D6B3-4A54-9FE3-5E14BD9B5E91@comcast.net>

> --
> 
> Old School Aircraft.  Worth another look.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Mar 21 11:53:42 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:53:42 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Try this link ...
References: <561339.55277.qm@web82005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <62E0EC7A-E4F7-4E3A-AD82-AD2D38439509@comcast.net>

Begin forwarded message:

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/vnd]

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Mar 21 12:22:47 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:22:47 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] old stuff
Message-ID: <FEB05AAE9A3F465B9259295122DC18F0@GlenPC>

Check out this web site for some fun and memories. It's every issue of Popular
Science Mag.
http://www.popsci.com/archives

Click on the search tab and type in Bonneville or what ever you might be
interested in.

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Mar 21 20:12:58 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:12:58 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
Message-ID: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43>

Well about 16 months ago I posted the statement that  we were facing a NATIONL INTELLIGENCE TEST

--- there were several preliminary reports; but tonight the final grades were posted we FAILED AS A Nation 219-212

---The last shot at saving the REPUBLIC rest with Supreme Court  may we be blessed by the LORD and he helps them save us as he did against ROOSEVELT during the last Depression.

Wm. T. Smith

From FFR554 at aol.com  Sun Mar 21 21:10:45 2010
From: FFR554 at aol.com (FFR554 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 00:10:45 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
Message-ID: <9d918.76a2521.38d847c5@aol.com>

Let's all PRAY.  Is the end of the USA near at hand?
 
 
In a message dated 3/21/2010 8:14:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
sparky.2211 at cox.net writes:

Well  about 16 months ago I posted the statement that  we were facing a 
NATIONL  INTELLIGENCE TEST

--- there were several preliminary reports; but  tonight the final grades 
were posted we FAILED AS A Nation  219-212

---The last shot at saving the REPUBLIC rest with Supreme  Court  may we be 
blessed by the LORD and he helps them save us as he did  against ROOSEVELT 
during the last Depression.

Wm. T.  Smith
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate:  http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive:  http://www.team.net/archive
Forums:  http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:  
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/ffr554 at aol.com

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun Mar 21 21:13:05 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 00:13:05 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
Message-ID: <4EC3274F26F64C21A96098CEA4FBB566@john>

Well said Sparky



> Well about 16 months ago I posted the statement that  we were facing a 
> NATIONL INTELLIGENCE TEST
>
> --- there were several preliminary reports; but tonight the final grades 
> were posted we FAILED AS A Nation 219-212
>
> ---The last shot at saving the REPUBLIC rest with Supreme Court  may we be 
> blessed by the LORD and he helps them save us as he did against ROOSEVELT 
> during the last Depression.
>
> Wm. T. Smith
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Mar 21 22:05:41 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:05:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
References: <4EC3274F26F64C21A96098CEA4FBB566@john>
Message-ID: <2C77D11F2B6F4DE69C87092D1FE620C1@edc2750afa5a84>

I used to jokingly quote a saying that went some thing like "If we don't 
want to give them a piece of the action we shouldn't be letting them buy 
assault weapons"  I knew this was just a joke. Most of them would die early 
because they had no health insurance.  But now that the 30 million will be 
covered I'm starting to really worry........
I suppose the new taxes may mean some of us may have to decide between 
staying in a hotel  and camping at the Bend so we can afford the nitro.  I 
wouldn't mind having that problem.
C'mon guys.  Lighten up.  If it really is so terrible then the GOP will take 
back the Congress in November and put a stop to the future you're all 
worrying about.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Mar 22 06:34:18 2010
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:34:18 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
References: <4EC3274F26F64C21A96098CEA4FBB566@john>
Message-ID: <4BA771DA.000007.02228@TOMSCOMPUTER>

Unfortunately, it took a declaration of war to recover from the depression
Roosevelt was fixing.  Read this quote and think about it...

"Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in
slavery ... The subjection of individuals will increase amongst democratic
nations, not only in the same proportion as their equality, but in the same
proportion as their ignorance."

ALEXIS DE TOCQUEVILLE, Democracy in America


Tom

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of stampa_girl_line_en.gif]

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Mon Mar 22 07:15:51 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:15:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43>
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43>
Message-ID: <20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net>

Yep!! and what, I suppose, is next???????? Watch carefully.
Skip




At 08:12 PM 3/21/2010, sparky.2211 at cox.net wrote:
>Well about 16 months ago I posted the statement that  we were facing 
>a NATIONL INTELLIGENCE TEST
>
>--- there were several preliminary reports; but tonight the final 
>grades were posted we FAILED AS A Nation 219-212
>
>---The last shot at saving the REPUBLIC rest with Supreme Court  may 
>we be blessed by the LORD and he helps them save us as he did 
>against ROOSEVELT during the last Depression.
>
>Wm. T. Smith
>_______________________________________________
>Land-speed at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltrat at pahrump.com

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Mon Mar 22 07:15:51 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:15:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43>
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43>
Message-ID: <20100322151424.57785187658@autox.team.net>

Yep!! and what, I suppose, is next???????? Watch carefully.
Skip




At 08:12 PM 3/21/2010, sparky.2211 at cox.net wrote:
>Well about 16 months ago I posted the statement that  we were facing 
>a NATIONL INTELLIGENCE TEST
>
>--- there were several preliminary reports; but tonight the final 
>grades were posted we FAILED AS A Nation 219-212
>
>---The last shot at saving the REPUBLIC rest with Supreme Court  may 
>we be blessed by the LORD and he helps them save us as he did 
>against ROOSEVELT during the last Depression.
>
>Wm. T. Smith
>_______________________________________________
>Land-speed at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltrat at pahrump.com

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Mar 22 07:30:33 2010
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:30:33 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net>
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43>
	<20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <8756E9A9-DD2D-4182-803C-33D7F72D68AE@nancyandjon.org>

On Mar 22, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Skip Higginbotham wrote:

> Yep!! and what, I suppose, is next???????? Watch carefully.
> Skip
>
>



I've gotta jump in here to defend socialized medicine.  My dad lives in
Austria with his girlfriend, and has claimed "life partner" status -- so he
gets full benefits as if he were an Austrian citizen.  He's 86 so has some
ailments from old age, among other things.

His hernia repair, about a year ago, was done within a week or so of when he
was diagnosed - no long waiting line.  He got a double-occupancy room for free
-- a private room would have cost him 10 Euros per day.  His regular physician
(everyone gets a "local", or regular doctor) referred him to the hernia
specialist - no charge.  He could have gone to another doctor instead of both
his regular one and the one referred by the regular one -- would have been a
ten-Euro cost.  While in hospital the government pays a 125 Euro stipend a day
to the patient.  Follow up care was included in the zero cost plan.

He had to pay for his hearing aid.  He doesn't pay for regular care, and is
allowed unlimited visits to said regular guy/girl.

Yep, the Austrian taxes are higher than US - by quite a long shot.  But then
-- Nancy and I are getting new health insurance -- with all of the concomitant
copays and restrictions and such -- from Blue Cross/Blue Shield.  Our rate is
lower than it might be - because we're co-owners of a business and thereby
qualify for this plan.  The monthly cost for the two of us is about $575.
That's darn near $7000 a year.  That much could be taxes and we'd have better
coverage in case of medical needs.

Further deponent sayeth not - at least for now.


Jon a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 07:48:01 2010
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:48:01 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <20100322151424.57785187658@autox.team.net>
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43>
	<20100322151424.57785187658@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <45ac72e91003220748jba57931xdc95913cdb5921e3@mail.gmail.com>

The ones who are protesting the most are the ones who need it the most.

Try substituting the word "education" for "health-care." People would fight
that too.

Most of us here are on Medicare. The only difference for that coverage is
the loss of "Advantage" a con put over on us over 65. Advantage is not
advantageous, it only sounds good. With Advantage you relinquish your
Medicare coverage to an insurance company. They put a cap where was no cap
and deny where there was no denial. When I had my lung cancer surgery, I
went to the best hospital I could find. The Cleavland Clinic. I was told
that if I had Advantage, I would pay a minimum of $15,000. If I had regular
Medicare I would pay nothing. And I paid nothing. The only thing Advantage
gives you is everything is on one card instead of three. You pay around
$100.00 a month for that.

Nobody seems to get that Advantage is a screw job. If you don't believe, and
I'm sure you probably won't, ask an insurance agent.

Sparky, if your statement about Roosevelt during the Depression of 1937 is
referring to social security, don't take it. You don't have to. Send it
back.

This is still so far from socialized medicine, but you won't believe that
either.


Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

Bob Denton

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Mar 22 07:57:31 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:57:31 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <45ac72e91003220748jba57931xdc95913cdb5921e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100322105731.HJJKI.871617.imail@eastrmwml47>

Robert,  
 When I reread my post I think that the only fact I stated was the vote---219-212,
 an I so demented that I didn't get that right?

If they will return to us  with intrest what my wife and I have paid in its a deal!

IF this REPUBLIC has ANY chace of surviving we must curtail and diminish what we seniors are carring off!!!!!!

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Mon Mar 22 08:15:47 2010
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:15:47 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
Message-ID: <8f80.7aac2f2a.38d8e3a3@aol.com>

SSS/Jon..I don't think Austria has the same percentage of hard core  
unemployables as the USA, comparison to the US doesn't work with me, anyhow. A  
lot easier to stomach taxes when you think you are the likely eventual  
beneficiary
Bob D/I think we are all aware of what SS morphed into, just another  
account for the Fed to dip into whenever it deems. FDR solved unemployment  
practically instantly by getting work for 16 million when WW ll started, in  a 
population of 130 million at that time. 
Wait'll the dust settles on this, and meanwhile try and stay abreast of the 
 little that matters among the political posturing. I wonder what kind of 
deals  were made to the holdouts yesterday. 
What seems to rankle most is the emphasis on Health care when it falls far  
behind the economy and the war in issues of contemporary importance.  I see 
it more as our Executive has taken this as the defining moment  in the 
relatively early part of his tenure, and wants to shove it through,  regardless 
of reality. Like a child. 
It's the Celebrity mentality, they are surrounded by Yes People (<PC) ,  
and are not aware of the consequences. As in November. We will see.  
Remember when you were a kid and were in awe of Washington, DC and the  way 
media glorified the President, Inc.? I wonder if grade school kids feel 
that  way now? 
BOB W, another cranky old man. 

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Mar 22 08:23:15 2010
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:23:15 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <8f80.7aac2f2a.38d8e3a3@aol.com>
References: <8f80.7aac2f2a.38d8e3a3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7B6C6B26-B1FB-40C1-A1E3-6F4CA4A9B808@nancyandjon.org>

As of Google this morning -- US unemployment (not sorting by long-term and not
long term) 9.7%
						   Austria unemployment
3.8

Jon


On Mar 22, 2010, at 11:15 AM, BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:

> SSS/Jon..I don't think Austria has the same percentage of hard core
> unemployables as the USA, comparison to the US doesn't work with me, anyhow.
A
> lot easier to stomach taxes when you think you are the likely eventual
> beneficiary
> Bob D/I think we are all aware of what SS morphed into, just another
> account for the Fed to dip into whenever it deems. FDR solved unemployment
> practically instantly by getting work for 16 million when WW ll started, in
a
> population of 130 million at that time.
> Wait'll the dust settles on this, and meanwhile try and stay abreast of the
> little that matters among the political posturing. I wonder what kind of
> deals  were made to the holdouts yesterday.
> What seems to rankle most is the emphasis on Health care when it falls far
> behind the economy and the war in issues of contemporary importance.  I see
> it more as our Executive has taken this as the defining moment  in the
> relatively early part of his tenure, and wants to shove it through,
regardless
> of reality. Like a child.
> It's the Celebrity mentality, they are surrounded by Yes People (<PC) ,
> and are not aware of the consequences. As in November. We will see.
> Remember when you were a kid and were in awe of Washington, DC and the  way
> media glorified the President, Inc.? I wonder if grade school kids feel
> that  way now?
> BOB W, another cranky old man.
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.or
g

Jon Wennerberg
jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org

From NT788 at comcast.net  Mon Mar 22 08:32:18 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:32:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <7B6C6B26-B1FB-40C1-A1E3-6F4CA4A9B808@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <1230605936.9180831269271938243.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

It is easy to blame everyone but ourselves!

Personally I confuse progress, with the loss of personal freedom.

Jack Costella




As of Google this morning -- US unemployment (not sorting by long-term and not
long term) 9.7%
B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B
 B B B B B B B B B  B  Austria unemployment
3.8

Jon


On Mar 22, 2010, at 11:15 AM, BWANA343@ aol .com wrote:

> SSS/Jon..I don't think Austria has the same percentage of hard core
> unemployables as the USA, comparison to the US doesn't work with me, anyhow.
A
> lot easier to stomach taxes when you think you are the likely eventual
> beneficiary
> Bob D/I think we are all aware of what SS morphed into, just another
> account for the Fed to dip into whenever it deems. FDR solved unemployment
> practically instantly by getting work for 16 million when WW ll started, in
a
> population of 130 million at that time.
> Wait'll the dust settles on this, and meanwhile try and stay abreast of the
> little that matters among the political posturing. I wonder what kind of
> deals B were made to the holdouts yesterday.
> What seems to rankle most is the emphasis on Health care when it falls far
> behind the economy and the war in issues of contemporary importance. B I see
> it more as our Executive has taken this as the defining moment B in the
> relatively early part of his tenure, and wants to shove it through,
regardless
> of reality. Like a child.
> It's the Celebrity mentality, they are surrounded by Yes People (<PC) ,
> and are not aware of the consequences. As in November. We will see.
> Remember when you were a kid and were in awe of Washington, DC and the B way
> media glorified the President, Inc.? I wonder if grade school kids feel
> that B way now?
> BOB W, another cranky old man.
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed@ autox .team.net
> Donate: http :// www .team.net/donate. html
> Archive: http :// www .team.net/archive
> Forums: http :// www .team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe /Manage:
http :// autox .team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/ jonwennerberg @
nancyandjon .or
g

Jon Wennerberg
jonwennerberg @ nancyandjon .org
_______________________________________________
Land-speed@ autox .team.net
Donate: http :// www .team.net/donate. html
Archive: http :// www .team.net/archive
Forums: http :// www .team.net/forums
Unsubscribe /Manage: http :// autox
.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Mon Mar 22 09:08:27 2010
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:08:27 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
Message-ID: <d6fb.58de9e9b.38d8effb@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/22/2010 11:32:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
NT788 at comcast.net writes:

As of  Google this morning -- US unemployment (not sorting by long-term and 
 not
long term)  9.7%
Austria unemployment
3.8


Considering Europe, Inc, is also in an economic downturn, 3.8% is terrific. 
I believe above 3.8% is our US average during the best of times. 
But our 3.8% is made up mostly of chronically unemployable that don't  
work, don't pay dues, but do get their entitlements. Not an option in  Austria.
It's not a health care bill as much as a tax bill, and whether it's  funded 
by newly printed money (DEBT), or taxes, the potential is  to cripple the 
economy for decades.    
 BW

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Mar 22 10:20:14 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:20:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <7B6C6B26-B1FB-40C1-A1E3-6F4CA4A9B808@nancyandjon.org>
References: <8f80.7aac2f2a.38d8e3a3@aol.com>
	<7B6C6B26-B1FB-40C1-A1E3-6F4CA4A9B808@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <4BA7A6CE.8010204@mayfco.com>

Jon, all, the unemployment figure does not include those who have run 
out of benefits!  Many many  have simply given up in trying to find a 
job and are living hand to mouth existence. There are several millions 
of them.

mayf
Jon Wennerberg wrote:

>As of Google this morning -- US unemployment (not sorting by long-term and not
>long term) 9.7%
>						   Austria unemployment
>3.8
>
>Jon
>
>
>On Mar 22, 2010, at 11:15 AM, BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:
>
>  
>
>>SSS/Jon..I don't think Austria has the same percentage of hard core
>>unemployables as the USA, comparison to the US doesn't work with me, anyhow.
>>    
>>
>A
>  
>
>>lot easier to stomach taxes when you think you are the likely eventual
>>beneficiary
>>Bob D/I think we are all aware of what SS morphed into, just another
>>account for the Fed to dip into whenever it deems. FDR solved unemployment
>>practically instantly by getting work for 16 million when WW ll started, in
>>    
>>
 snip

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Mar 22 10:22:08 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:22:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <1230605936.9180831269271938243.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1230605936.9180831269271938243.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4BA7A740.3000000@mayfco.com>

Me too, Jack!    I do not want a nanny. 

mayf
NT788 at comcast.net wrote:

>It is easy to blame everyone but ourselves!
>
>Personally I confuse progress, with the loss of personal freedom.
>
>Jack Costella
>
>
>
>
>As of Google this morning -- US unemployment (not sorting by long-term and not
>long term) 9.7%
>B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B
> B B B B B B B B B  B  Austria unemployment
>3.8
>
>Jon
>
>
>On Mar 22, 2010, at 11:15 AM, BWANA343@ aol .com wrote:
>
>  
>
>>SSS/Jon..I don't think Austria has the same percentage of hard core
>>unemployables as the USA, comparison to the US doesn't work with me, anyhow.
>>    
>>
>A
>  
>
>>lot easier to stomach taxes when you think you are the likely eventual
>>beneficiary
>>Bob D/I think we are all aware of what SS morphed into, just another
>>account for the Fed to dip into whenever it deems. FDR solved unemployment
>>practically instantly by getting work for 16 million when WW ll started, in
>>    
>>
>a
>  
>
>>population of 130 million at that time.
>>Wait'll the dust settles on this, and meanwhile try and stay abreast of the
>>little that matters among the political posturing. I wonder what kind of
>>    
>>
 snip

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Mar 22 13:06:53 2010
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:06:53 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43>
	<20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net>
	<8756E9A9-DD2D-4182-803C-33D7F72D68AE@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <4BA7CDDD.000010.01536@TOMSCOMPUTER>

I hope most of us are uneasy about the turn of events...Social Security is
not a gift, I paid into this insurance for years. The Medicare insurance is
deducted from the S/S benefits. The supplement insurance, Blue Cross,
actually went down $13 a month this year. The only out of pocket health care
for me has been minimal. Don't think it is going to be better now.

Tom

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of stampa_girl_line_en.gif]

From dlodom at charter.net  Mon Mar 22 14:39:29 2010
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:39:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43><20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net><8756E9A9-DD2D-4182-803C-33D7F72D68AE@nancyandjon.org>
	<4BA7CDDD.000010.01536@TOMSCOMPUTER>
Message-ID: <02a101caca08$29589220$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Tom, I agree. It is too bad these politicians were not raised by my mother. 
She was born in the twenty's and grew up in a small South Dakota town in the 
depression were a hand made doll and a fresh Orange were a good Christmas. I 
was born just before the war and my Dad went to Europe to fight the Germans 
and mom went to California to build airplanes for the war. She built 
airplanes till Lockheed made her retire.
 If I went and told her I wanted to get my Healthcare and charge it to her 
Grand and Great Grand kids she would just look me in the eye,   slap my face 
and say " I raised you up better than that boy". Then walk away in disgust.

You don't take things you don't earn!!!!

Doug in big ditch


Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT


>I hope most of us are uneasy about the turn of events...Social Security is
> not a gift, I paid into this insurance for years. The Medicare insurance 
> is
> deducted from the S/S benefits. The supplement insurance, Blue Cross,
> actually went down $13 a month this year. The only out of pocket health 
> care
> for me has been minimal. Don't think it is going to be better now.
>
> Tom
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> faint_grain.jpg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 
> stampa_girl_line_en.gif]
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/dlodom at charter.net

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 15:33:10 2010
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:33:10 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <02a101caca08$29589220$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43>
	<20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net>
	<8756E9A9-DD2D-4182-803C-33D7F72D68AE@nancyandjon.org>
	<4BA7CDDD.000010.01536@TOMSCOMPUTER>
	<02a101caca08$29589220$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <45ac72e91003221533v3c9d8d54v3bad94e178260db1@mail.gmail.com>

And Doug, you don't have to take anything. Just send it back!

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Doug Odom <dlodom at charter.net> wrote:

> Tom, I agree. It is too bad these politicians were not raised by my mother.
> She was born in the twenty's and grew up in a small South Dakota town in the
> depression were a hand made doll and a fresh Orange were a good Christmas. I
> was born just before the war and my Dad went to Europe to fight the Germans
> and mom went to California to build airplanes for the war. She built
> airplanes till Lockheed made her retire.
> If I went and told her I wanted to get my Healthcare and charge it to her
> Grand and Great Grand kids she would just look me in the eye,   slap my face
> and say " I raised you up better than that boy". Then walk away in disgust.
>
> You don't take things you don't earn!!!!
>
> Doug in big ditch

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 22 19:10:39 2010
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (Joe & Lynne Lance)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:10:39 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <8756E9A9-DD2D-4182-803C-33D7F72D68AE@nancyandjon.org>
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43><20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net>
	<8756E9A9-DD2D-4182-803C-33D7F72D68AE@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <47F23B884C7F47B195DDC4D9E60FFD6A@josephb4d4bd9f>

Jon:

My wife and I are paying a lot more than you and Nancy for our health
insurance and our coverage is very limited---it's because we have to buy our
coverage as individuals.
 
While I'm in favor of health care reform the bill that passed on Sunday is
the most dishonest and corrupt piece of legislation I've ever seen. The cost
of the bill has been fudged by starting taxes now and delaying benefits for
years, so the first ten year cost is phony. I can't see how health care
costs are going to be reduced by increasing the taxes of everybody in the
health care business including bed pan manufacturers.

The bill contains special deals for all kinds of groups--I have no doubt
that government employees at all levels, big union members, members of
congress, and especially school teachers will be protected. In my state if a
school board asks the teachers to contribute more than 1% to their health
care premiums they go on strike and our real estate taxes go up. Our corrupt
state legislators have increased, but not funded, big increases in teachers
pensions so we are facing huge increases in real estate taxes.

So the above groups will get special treatment at the expense of people like
my wife and I who will pay much higher premiums.

My own view is that Obama and company have caused so much economic
uncertainty with the health care bill and the proposed cap & trade bill that
private investment is being seriously depressed. As a result it's going to a
very long time before unemployment goes down and the economy starts growing
again.

Lance  
------------------

Jon wrote:

  But then Nancy and I are getting new health insurance -- with all of the
concomitant
copays and restrictions and such -- from Blue Cross/Blue Shield.  Our rate
is
lower than it might be - because we're co-owners of a business and thereby
qualify for this plan.  The monthly cost for the two of us is about $575.
That's darn near $7000 a year.  That much could be taxes and we'd have
better
coverage in case of medical needs.

Further deponent sayeth not - at least for now.


Jon a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
_______________________________________________

From NT788 at comcast.net  Mon Mar 22 19:30:19 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 02:30:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <1599936182.9498581269311263981.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <966345259.9499951269311419197.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Robert

Doug andB I need the money to pay for the inflationB that free moneyB and
benifits have created! You know like a pyramid scheme!Give me your money and
"We" will make you rich, healthy and free!

Jack


And Doug, you don't have to take anything. Just send it back!

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Doug Odom <dlodom at charter.net> wrote:

> Tom, I agree. It is too bad these politicians were not raised by my mother.
> She was born in the twenty's and grew up in a small South Dakota town in the
> depression were a hand made doll and a fresh Orange were a good Christmas. I
> was born just before the war and my Dad went to Europe to fight the Germans
> and mom went to California to build airplanes for the war. She built
> airplanes till Lockheed made her retire.
> If I went and told her I wanted to get my Healthcare and charge it to her
> Grand and Great Grand kids she would just look me in the eye, B  slap my
face
> and say " I raised you up better than that boy". Then walk away in disgust.
>
> You don't take things you don't earn!!!!
>
> Doug in big ditch
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
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From NT788 at comcast.net  Mon Mar 22 19:52:45 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 02:52:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <4BA7A740.3000000@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <2014223772.9509921269312765883.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Mayf

What if you needed one?

Jack




Me too, Jack! B  B I do not want a nanny.

mayf


NT788 at comcast.net wrote:

>It is easy to blame everyone but ourselves!
>
>Personally I confuse progress, with the loss of personal freedom.
>
>Jack Costella
>
>
>
>
>As of Google this morning -- US unemployment (not sorting by long-term and
not
>long term) 9.7%
>B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B
> B B B B B B B B B B B B Austria unemployment
>3.8
>
>Jon
>
>
>On Mar 22, 2010, at 11:15 AM, BWANA343@ aol .com wrote:
>
> B 
>
>>SSS/Jon..I don't think Austria has the same percentage of hard core
>>unemployables as the USA, comparison to the US doesn't work with me, anyhow.
>> B  B 
>>
>A
> B 
>
>>lot easier to stomach taxes when you think you are the likely eventual
>>beneficiary
>>Bob D/I think we are all aware of what SS morphed into, just another
>>account for the Fed to dip into whenever it deems. FDR solved unemployment
>>practically instantly by getting work for 16 million when WW ll started, in
>> B  B 
>>
>a
> B 
>
>>population of 130 million at that time.
>>Wait'll the dust settles on this, and meanwhile try and stay abreast of the
>>little that matters among the political posturing. I wonder what kind of
>> B  B 
>>
B snip

From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Mar 22 21:13:24 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:13:24 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <d6fb.58de9e9b.38d8effb@aol.com>
References: <d6fb.58de9e9b.38d8effb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4BA83FE4.8000003@bradakis.com>

> But our 3.8% is made up mostly of chronically unemployable that don't  
> work, don't pay dues, but do get their entitlements.

Okay, I'd like to know where to get this entitlement you speak of.  I 
was laid off
in August of 2005 and have not had a full time steady job since then.  
Too young
to retire, too old to rehire.  I should have asked for five hundred 
dollars for that
charcoal grill instead of the five I got for it at my moving sale.  I 
ran out of
unemployment benefits 4 years ago, so I am not part of the unemployment
figures, but I don't have a job.  Which one of you will step up and hire me?
Mid fifties with a master's degree in Computer Science and I get about a
zero percent acknowledgment from the cover letters and resumes I send out
on a regular basis.  How many millions more like me are out there?

It could be worse.  Luckily our house is paid off and our cars are paid 
off.  We
manage to keep good food on the table or in bowls on the floor when it comes
to the kitties.  Do you whiners have any idea how long it has been since 
I could
afford to actually fully fill up the gas tank on my 13 year old vehicle?

I imagine those of you who make a big fuss about taking care of 
yourselves and
not relying on the efforts of others will certainly unsubscribe from any and
all of these Team.Net lists to avoid the blatant hypocrisy of taking 
something
[ the fruits of my labors ] for nothing.


mjb.

ps:  Sheesh, I was going to talk about off topic stuff on the list, but 
got sidetracked.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Mar 22 22:20:40 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:20:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <2014223772.9509921269312765883.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <2014223772.9509921269312765883.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4BA84FA8.70406@mayfco.com>

Then I would pay for one.

mayf
NT788 at comcast.net wrote:

>
> Mayf
>
> What if you needed one?
>
> Jack
>
>  
>
>
> Me too, Jack!    I do not want a nanny.
>
> mayf
>
>
> NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>
> >It is easy to blame everyone but ourselves!
> >
> >Personally I confuse progress, with the loss of personal freedom.
> >
> >Jack Costella
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >As of Google this morning -- US unemployment (not sorting by 
> long-term and not
> >long term) 9.7%
> >B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B 
> B B B B
> > B B B B B B B B B  B  Austria unemployment
> >3.8
> >
> >Jon
> >
> >
> >On Mar 22, 2010, at 11:15 AM, BWANA343@ aol .com wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>S
>
snip

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Mar 22 22:47:51 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:47:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
References: <2014223772.9509921269312765883.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<4BA84FA8.70406@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <529E0E236333491A8AF176DFA489EFB6@edc2750afa5a84>

And get your little tushy thrown in the hoosegow, you would!!
Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: <NT788 at comcast.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <BWANA343 at aol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT


> Then I would pay for one.
> mayf

> NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>> Mayf
>> What if you needed one?
>> Jack

>> Me too, Jack!    I do not want a nanny.
>> mayf

>> NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>> >It is easy to blame everyone but ourselves!
>> >Personally I confuse progress, with the loss of personal freedom.
>> >Jack Costella

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Mar 23 00:17:13 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 3:17:13 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR rant  --Taxes and such
Message-ID: <20100323031713.I7PFX.1173463.imail@eastrmwml31>

Mayf---I thank you are wrong---

they have jumped WAY past needing to tax you to redistribute wealth---
they will and ARE printing all they want, send it to whom they want in the form of tax credits, rebates, and EARMARKS ---THEY only tax who they want to take it away from and try to DESTROY any more.


This PROGRESSIVE__MARXIST ADMIMISTRATION's AGENDA is all about DESTROYING personal RESOURCES---as long as you have resources you are a citizen and  have OPTIONS  wmts

---when you are on the DOLE you become a SUBJECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 00:48:37 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 01:48:37 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <529E0E236333491A8AF176DFA489EFB6@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <2014223772.9509921269312765883.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<4BA84FA8.70406@mayfco.com>
	<529E0E236333491A8AF176DFA489EFB6@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <ECB82D15-0F75-447D-8F33-234EED2B8FC0@comcast.net>

You forget Ed.... Mayf lives in Pahrump, Nevada.  LOL!

Wes

On Mar 22, 2010, at 11:47 PM, 23weldon wrote:

> And get your little tushy thrown in the hoosegow, you would!!
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: <NT788 at comcast.net>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <BWANA343 at aol.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
>
>
>> Then I would pay for one.
>> mayf
>
>> NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>>> Mayf
>>> What if you needed one?
>>> Jack
>
>>> Me too, Jack!    I do not want a nanny.
>>> mayf
>
>>> NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>>> >It is easy to blame everyone but ourselves!
>>> >Personally I confuse progress, with the loss of personal freedom.
>>> >Jack Costella
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/wester6935 at comcast.net

From FFR554 at aol.com  Tue Mar 23 00:51:20 2010
From: FFR554 at aol.com (FFR554 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:51:20 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
Message-ID: <82775.6367472b.38d9ccf8@aol.com>

November will be an opportunity to make changes in Washington.   Remember 
to vote.
 
Bruce
 
 
In a message dated 3/23/2010 12:49:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
wester6935 at comcast.net writes:

You  forget Ed.... Mayf lives in Pahrump, Nevada.  LOL!

Wes

On  Mar 22, 2010, at 11:47 PM, 23weldon wrote:

> And get your little  tushy thrown in the hoosegow, you would!!
> Ed
>
> -----  Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To:  <NT788 at comcast.net>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>;  <BWANA343 at aol.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:20 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
>
>
>>  Then I would pay for one.
>> mayf
>
>>  NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>>> Mayf
>>> What if you  needed one?
>>> Jack
>
>>> Me too, Jack!   I do not want a nanny.
>>> mayf
>
>>>  NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>>> >It is easy to blame everyone but  ourselves!
>>> >Personally I confuse progress, with the loss of  personal freedom.
>>> >Jack Costella
>  _______________________________________________
>  Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate:  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:  http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>  Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/wester6935 at comcast.net
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate:  http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive:  http://www.team.net/archive
Forums:  http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:  
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/ffr554 at aol.com

From bob at southmtpages.com  Tue Mar 23 05:35:23 2010
From: bob at southmtpages.com (Bob Clancy)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:35:23 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <02a101caca08$29589220$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43><20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net><8756E9A9-DD2D-4182-803C-33D7F72D68AE@nancyandjon.org>
	<4BA7CDDD.000010.01536@TOMSCOMPUTER>
	<02a101caca08$29589220$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <4BA8B58B.4000607@southmtpages.com>

Seems to me a lot of people are missing the point.

First, we have this thing called the "insurance industry" whose job is 
to collect money (from us), ration care, and turn over as much money as 
possible to their investors.  That's the only reason they exist.  They 
suck up more bucks from us than the health-care system in any other 
industrialized country, and do nothing productive in return.

Did you notice that (admittedly with some federal help for the very 
poor) people are being forced to buy insurance from those corporate 
vultures? Yet a  non-profit public option was given up.  And a 
non-profit national health system (like the rest of the industrialized 
world has) was not even considered.  What the heck is Socialist / 
Communist / Maoist / Nazi about that?

Secondly, there are a lot of people running around pretending to be 
"patriots".... yet what is patriotic about working against "the common 
welfare" (heard those words before?).  It seems to me that some folks 
want no taxes, no government, and complete "freedom".  Well, if you have 
that, you don't have a nation.  A nation is a bunch of people working 
together to promote the common good.  We're in it *together*.  Sure, the 
line has to be drawn somewhere between anarchy and totalitarianism, but 
I fail to see how making a weak, compromised effort to rein in the 
abuses of the insurance industry is going too far.  This whole thing is 
blown grossly out of proportion.

Third, I'd just like to mention a few of our horrible Socialist 
institutions..... schools, libraries, roads, fire departments, the FAA, 
police departments, the military, the Coast Guard, the National Weather 
Service, NOAA, the US Geologic Survey, Forest Service, BLM, and every 
town, city, county and state government that provides water, sewer, 
garbage collection....... and paid the guy to drive the snow plow that 
made it possible for me to get home a couple nights ago.

Add to that Social Security, a program infinitely more Socialistic than 
anything in the 'health reform' bill.  That didn't seem to destroy the 
country.  In fact, I know a lot of people (who paid into it all along) 
who think it's a pretty good program.

Looking at all this in the light of history and the experiences of other 
'advanced' nations, I sure can't fathom what all the hysteria is about.

Bob C.

PS, Where were all the anti-tax deficit hawks when the Bush 
administration was sending the deficit through the roof?

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 23 05:52:59 2010
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:52:59 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <4BA8B58B.4000607@southmtpages.com>
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43>
	<20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net>
	<8756E9A9-DD2D-4182-803C-33D7F72D68AE@nancyandjon.org>
	<4BA7CDDD.000010.01536@TOMSCOMPUTER>
	<02a101caca08$29589220$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
	<4BA8B58B.4000607@southmtpages.com>
Message-ID: <45ac72e91003230552q6b02d6a2u56e9383b07e67c38@mail.gmail.com>

Finally. A voice of reason. Thank you for spelling it all out. You hit the
nail on the head.

Let me add one more thing. Of all the "political parties," one of them
isn't. The Tea Party. It is a for profit (as opposed to non-profit)
organization. It is trademarked and any money you send them is not tax
deductible. The more riled up and pissed they get you, they will be pushing
you to give them money. Neat trick, huh?

Thanks, Bob!


Bob D.


On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 6:35 AM, Bob Clancy <bob at southmtpages.com> wrote:

> Seems to me a lot of people are missing the point.
>
> First, we have this thing called the "insurance industry" whose job is to
> collect money (from us), ration care, and turn over as much money as
> possible to their investors.  That's the only reason they exist.  They suck
> up more bucks from us than the health-care system in any other
> industrialized country, and do nothing productive in return.
>
> Did you notice that (admittedly with some federal help for the very poor)
> people are being forced to buy insurance from those corporate vultures? Yet
> a  non-profit public option was given up.  And a non-profit national health
> system (like the rest of the industrialized world has) was not even
> considered.  What the heck is Socialist / Communist / Maoist / Nazi about
> that?
>
> Secondly, there are a lot of people running around pretending to be
> "patriots".... yet what is patriotic about working against "the common
> welfare" (heard those words before?).  It seems to me that some folks want
> no taxes, no government, and complete "freedom".  Well, if you have that,
> you don't have a nation.  A nation is a bunch of people working together to
> promote the common good.  We're in it *together*.  Sure, the line has to be
> drawn somewhere between anarchy and totalitarianism, but I fail to see how
> making a weak, compromised effort to rein in the abuses of the insurance
> industry is going too far.  This whole thing is blown grossly out of
> proportion.
>
> Third, I'd just like to mention a few of our horrible Socialist
> institutions..... schools, libraries, roads, fire departments, the FAA,
> police departments, the military, the Coast Guard, the National Weather
> Service, NOAA, the US Geologic Survey, Forest Service, BLM, and every town,
> city, county and state government that provides water, sewer, garbage
> collection....... and paid the guy to drive the snow plow that made it
> possible for me to get home a couple nights ago.
>
> Add to that Social Security, a program infinitely more Socialistic than
> anything in the 'health reform' bill.  That didn't seem to destroy the
> country.  In fact, I know a lot of people (who paid into it all along) who
> think it's a pretty good program.
>
> Looking at all this in the light of history and the experiences of other
> 'advanced' nations, I sure can't fathom what all the hysteria is about.
>
> Bob C.
>
> PS, Where were all the anti-tax deficit hawks when the Bush administration
> was sending the deficit through the roof?

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Mar 23 07:08:36 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:08:36 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <4BA8B58B.4000607@southmtpages.com>
Message-ID: <20100323100836.MLMH1.812475.imail@eastrmwml46>

 and do nothing productive in return.---
their job is to let you spread your risk---for a fee---if you want it---optional untill now

> 
> Did you notice that (admittedly with some federal help for the very > poor) people are being forced to buy insurance from those corporate > vultures?   What the heck is Socialist / > Communist / Maoist / Nazi about that?

  Maybe, just maybe : your own words laid it out pretty well for us.


> 
> Secondly, there are a lot of people running around pretending to be 
> "patriots".... yet what is patriotic about working against "the common 
> welfare" (heard those words before?).  It seems to me that some folks 
> want no taxes, no government, and complete "freedom".  Well, if you have 
> that, you don't have a nation.  A nation is a bunch of people working 
> together to promote the common good.  We're in it *together*.  Sure, the 
> line has to be drawn somewhere between anarchy and totalitarianism, but 
> I fail to see how making a weak, compromised effort to rein in the 
> abuses of the insurance industry is going too far.  This whole thing is 
> blown grossly out of proportion.
> 
> Third, I'd just like to mention a few of our horrible Socialist 
> institutions..... schools, libraries, roads, fire departments, the FAA, 
> police departments, the military, the Coast Guard, the National Weather 
> Service, NOAA, the US Geologic Survey, Forest Service, BLM, and every 
> town, city, county and state government that provides water, sewer, 
> garbage collection....... and paid the guy to drive the snow plow that 
> made it possible for me to get home a couple nights ago.  

Bob you are lumping lots of OPTIONAL govt.institutions and optional services with few mentioned Fed responsibilities!

Shore-border defense---turn the fedral lands over to the States like in Texas and you have fewer beruacrats required---the mail got deliverd for may years by contract carriers in many areas---on and on> 
>

 Add to that Social Security, a program infinitely more Socialistic than 
> anything in the 'health reform' bill.  

That didn't seem to destroy the > country.  In fact, I know a lot of people (who paid into it all along) 
> who think it's a pretty good program.
> 
> 
Looking at all this in the light of history and the experiences of other 
 'advanced' nations, I sure can't fathom what all the hysteria is about.

We are trying to not reach their ADVANCED STATE of detoriation!!!
> 
> Bob C.
>  
 Bob you got it right we, --agree on someting---- we US citizens are abuch of D As

The debate is about the SUBJECT MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!


> PS, Where were all the anti-tax deficit hawks when the Bush 
> administration was sending the deficit through the roof? 

 A lot of us were SCREAMING!!!!!!!!!!

Wm. T. Smith
> _______________________________________________

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Tue Mar 23 08:04:37 2010
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:04:37 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
References: <20100323100836.MLMH1.812475.imail@eastrmwml46>
Message-ID: <4BA8D885.00001F.01800@TOMSCOMPUTER>

Folks, there is enough to rant about. Taxes are a way of life and I don't
complain about that within reason. The original Tea Party was because of
taxes without representation. This country's way of life is because of
Capitalism". Government should create the environment that lets it flourish.
The desire to rise above status quo is man's nature unless it has been
quenched. It is kind of like domesticating a wild animal. If turned loose in
the wild it probably will not survive. Another possibility is that it will
turn on you for no apparent reason. A good reason not to keep wild animals..
We should not be fenced in...our rights from God not from government.
Hopefully those in power will open their eyes and consider the message being
voiced. We are actually more intelligent than our leaders think. To me,
Landracing proves it!

Tom (Freedom requires Responsibility)

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of stampa_girl_line_en.gif]

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 08:18:13 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:18:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43><20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net><8756E9A9-DD2D-4182-803C-33D7F72D68AE@nancyandjon.org><4BA7CDDD.000010.01536@TOMSCOMPUTER><02a101caca08$29589220$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA><4BA8B58B.4000607@southmtpages.com>
	<45ac72e91003230552q6b02d6a2u56e9383b07e67c38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E8080A9D523742EB8E25A81FA0DA7611@edc2750afa5a84>

"I sure can't fathom what all the hysteria is about. Bob C."

Follow the money.  The money buys lots of noise. The noise is addictive to 
the sheep.  It makes them bleat irrationally and suppress all objectivity. 
Some of our best friends and very decent people have addictive personalities 
that fall victim to this.  At least being a shill for the insurance industry 
has one noble side....... helping protect all their workers' jobs. ......

Then there's the Tea Party variant.  It can be a lot of fun to have someone 
buy you plane tickets, put you up in a nice hotel and buy you drinks and 
meals so you'll go out,  raise hell and blow off steam for a few hours.  I 
expect that their next trick will be to take all that tea and use it to dye 
their T-shirts brown.

Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert J. Denton" <rjdenton479 at gmail.com>
To: "Bob Clancy" <bob at southmtpages.com>
Cc: "AA list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT


> Finally. A voice of reason. Thank you for spelling it all out. You hit the
> nail on the head.
> Let me add one more thing. Of all the "political parties," one of them
> isn't. The Tea Party. It is a for profit (as opposed to non-profit)
> organization. It is trademarked and any money you send them is not tax
> deductible. The more riled up and pissed they get you, they will be 
> pushing
> you to give them money. Neat trick, huh?
> Thanks, Bob!
> Bob D.

> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 6:35 AM, Bob Clancy <bob at southmtpages.com> wrote:
>> Seems to me a lot of people are missing the point.
>> First, we have this thing called the "insurance industry" whose job is to
>> collect money (from us), ration care, and turn over as much money as
>> possible to their investors.  That's the only reason they exist.  They 
>> suck
>> up more bucks from us than the health-care system in any other
>> industrialized country, and do nothing productive in return.
(clip)
>> Looking at all this in the light of history and the experiences of other
>> 'advanced' nations, I sure can't fathom what all the hysteria is about.
>> Bob C.

From NT788 at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 09:07:22 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:07:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <4BA83FE4.8000003@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <2016861107.9667991269360442922.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Mark

Did you say charcoal grill? Isn't there a law against that?

Jack






> But our 3.8% is made up mostly of chronically unemployable that don't B 
> work, don't pay dues, but do get their entitlements.

Okay, I'd like to know where to get this entitlement you speak of. B I
was laid off
in August of 2005 and have not had a full time steady job since then. B 
Too young
to retire, too old to rehire. B I should have asked for five hundred
dollars for that
charcoal grill instead of the five I got for it at my moving sale. B I
ran out of
unemployment benefits 4 years ago, so I am not part of the unemployment
figures, but I don't have a job. B Which one of you will step up and hire me?
Mid fifties with a master's degree in Computer Science and I get about a
zero percent acknowledgment from the cover letters and resumes I send out
on a regular basis. B How many millions more like me are out there?

It could be worse. B Luckily our house is paid off and our cars are paid
off. B We
manage to keep good food on the table or in bowls on the floor when it comes
to the kitties. B Do you whiners have any idea how long it has been since
I could
afford to actually fully fill up the gas tank on my 13 year old vehicle?

I imagine those of you who make a big fuss about taking care of
yourselves and
not relying on the efforts of others will certainly unsubscribe from any and
all of these Team.Net lists to avoid the blatant hypocrisy of taking
something
[ the fruits of my labors ] for nothing.


mjb.

ps: B Sheesh, I was going to talk about off topic stuff on the list, but
got sidetracked.
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net

From mark at bradakis.com  Tue Mar 23 09:52:29 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:52:29 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <2016861107.9667991269360442922.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <2016861107.9667991269360442922.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4BA8F1CD.7000300@bradakis.com>

NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> Mark
>
> Did you say charcoal grill? Isn't there a law against that?
>
>

Only sometimes.  The air in the Salt Lake valley gets pretty polluted
sometimes and is unfit to breathe.  So I could get a ticket if I tried
lighting a fire on a no-burn day.

As a side note, someone on this list bought the grill, and gave me a
nice donation for Team.Net as well.

mjb.

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Tue Mar 23 11:01:17 2010
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:01:17 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
Message-ID: <23018.22aebb0c.38da5bed@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/23/2010 12:15:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
mark at bradakis.com writes:

Okay,  I'd like to know where to get this entitlement you speak of.  I 
was  laid off
in August of 2005 and have not had a full time steady job since  then.  


My statement about the chronically unemployable should have been more  
specifically directed towards those who choose to be unemployed, some  
seasonally, and some because they have a decent cash paying job to compliment  their 
unemployment checks. There's 10 million aliens in this country working for  
half what a lot of those "in need of jobs" could do in our pretentious  
society. There's also millions more jobs that have been outsourced, many of them 
 replacing well-educated Americans. 
 Obviously this is a very sensitive point, especially if you are among  the 
millions that have been out of genuine gainful employment for years  in 
many cases. I apologize if I hit a sore spot. 
Let's stick to LSR....
BW

From jt_short at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 23 11:45:27 2010
From: jt_short at hotmail.com (Jim Short)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:45:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Land Speed Forum?
Message-ID: <SNT123-DS68099A4B3B6B24B528B03FC260@phx.gbl>

Hello Guys and Gals,

I'm a long term lurker on this list and part of my daily routine is devouring
new messages that pop up frequently during the day.  I'll be sitting in a
restaurant with my wife and my phone will beep with a new email.  "Honey, look
at this."  She indulges me but thinks I'm nuts.

I've held a dream to run on the salt since 1962.  That dream came to pass in
2007 with my first experience as a rider on a MPS-BG 1000cc bike(#6407), at
the WOS venue.  A severe family issue precluded my participation in the 2008
season and last minute mechanical gremlins kept me away for 2009.  I'll be
ready for WOS this year however.  I'll be running the same bike except in fuel
class.

I'm humbled by the expertise I've seen on this list and with nothing to
contribute, I've simply lurked and enjoyed.  Okay, the reason for my finally
speaking up.  Since "the vote" tipped to the Demos, it appears the LSR
community's thoughts, observances, advice, and sharing have turned away from
LSR topics and have concentrated on non-relevant issues to this list.  Seems
to me there are better forums to direct these off topic issues to.  I for one
would like to see you folks return to LSR topics.

That's my two cents.

Jim Short

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 23 12:13:24 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:13:24 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Land Speed Forum?
Message-ID: <31295096.1269371604809.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

You shouldn't have waited so long..........
>
>I've held a dream to run on the salt since 1962.  That dream came to pass in
>2007

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 12:32:21 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:32:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political REMINDER
References: <20100321231259.ORFFJ.855904.imail@eastrmwml43><20100322151424.557B018763F@autox.team.net><8756E9A9-DD2D-4182-803C-33D7F72D68AE@nancyandjon.org><4BA7CDDD.000010.01536@TOMSCOMPUTER><02a101caca08$29589220$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA><4BA8B58B.4000607@southmtpages.com>
	<45ac72e91003230552q6b02d6a2u56e9383b07e67c38@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8080A9D523742EB8E25A81FA0DA7611@edc2750afa5a84>
	<8DBF28E4-7E7D-4199-89FB-2D09C209B748@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FBD8E299DD7A4EA0890EAD8B3CF0A260@edc2750afa5a84>

Wes -- You're right about that one.  Both government and private enterprise
make some big mistakes (think Lehman Bros.).  My attitude toward "Cash for
Clunkers" was pretty negative for other reasons that were likely shared by
most car collectors.



Good thing we have a two party system in this country.  The other side can be
quite effective if they work at it.  But like in our own family situations all
effectiveness goes away when the two sides start screaming and throwing things
at each other.



This health care law is a big complex system full of imperfections.  It's like
the Navy just launched a brand new aircraft carrier full of new unproven
technologies. Lots of things are going to have to be tweaked during the sea
trials.  Even after the commissioning there will be lots of further
modifications as they wring out the operational effectiveness of the primary
systems.  Imagine where we would be if the US Navy were a two party system
where if one side didn't like the carrier's propulsion system and could refuse
to approve any improvements other than a total system replacement the way they
though it should be built?



Our nation needs to come to grips with some very basic issues relative to
health care.  Up til now the ending was looking untenable.

We now have a chance to work this all out.  Segments of our population that
were getting benefits far beyond what they were willing to pay for are going
to have to face reality.  Wall Street and a lot of smart medical business
entrepreneurs are going to have to expect some substantial leaning of their
cash cows.  A lot of irresponsible people are going to find that they will
have to pay for the goodies they got for free from hospital emergency rooms.
Criminals who have been bleeding Medicare are going to see their businesses
dry up.  And maybe we'll work our way through how to best handle the natural
process of our bodies wearing out without throwing massive resources into
futile efforts at prolonging life.  (this is the difficult one)



We cannot possibly do this if half of our population is at war with the other
half over what amounts to idealological positions.



Ed Weldon

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Wester Potter
  To: 23weldon
  Cc: Robert J. Denton ; Bob Clancy ; AA list
  Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:31 AM
  Subject: Re: NON LSR Political REMINDER


  This has been around before but it is a good reminder of what happens with
government programs.


  Wes

  > A  " clunker "  that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800
gallons of gas a year.  (average mpg of traded-in clunker)

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Mar 23 12:25:26 2010
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:25:26 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Land Speed Forum?
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-DS68099A4B3B6B24B528B03FC260@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT123-DS68099A4B3B6B24B528B03FC260@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <ED9185B9B9674497961C22C9FE9D0656@GlenPC>

Jim
I agree politics have there own place. I hate to see this forum turn into a 
contest of he said ,she said. Lets get back to racing.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Short" <jt_short at hotmail.com>
To: <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:45 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Land Speed Forum?


> Hello Guys and Gals,
>
> I'm a long term lurker on this list and part of my daily routine is 
> devouring
> new messages that pop up frequently during the day.  I'll be sitting in a
> restaurant with my wife and my phone will beep with a new email.  "Honey, 
> look
> at this."  She indulges me but thinks I'm nuts.
>
> I've held a dream to run on the salt since 1962.  That dream came to pass 
> in
> 2007 with my first experience as a rider on a MPS-BG 1000cc bike(#6407), 
> at
> the WOS venue.  A severe family issue precluded my participation in the 
> 2008
> season and last minute mechanical gremlins kept me away for 2009.  I'll be
> ready for WOS this year however.  I'll be running the same bike except in 
> fuel
> class.
>
> I'm humbled by the expertise I've seen on this list and with nothing to
> contribute, I've simply lurked and enjoyed.  Okay, the reason for my 
> finally
> speaking up.  Since "the vote" tipped to the Demos, it appears the LSR
> community's thoughts, observances, advice, and sharing have turned away 
> from
> LSR topics and have concentrated on non-relevant issues to this list. 
> Seems
> to me there are better forums to direct these off topic issues to.  I for 
> one
> would like to see you folks return to LSR topics.
>
> That's my two cents.
>
> Jim Short
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Tue Mar 23 12:45:24 2010
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:45:24 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Land Speed Forum?
In-Reply-To: <ED9185B9B9674497961C22C9FE9D0656@GlenPC>
References: <SNT123-DS68099A4B3B6B24B528B03FC260@phx.gbl>
	<ED9185B9B9674497961C22C9FE9D0656@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20DA9C51F@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

I'm about to put the list on my Junk e-mail filter. Nothing said in the
past 2 days has had ANYTHING to do with LSR.

There are plenty of other places to discuss this. E-mail Fox and CNN

Mike Meierle
#847 F/BMMP
Sidewinders
BNI/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder/Bonneville Record Holder

From FFR554 at aol.com  Tue Mar 23 13:00:06 2010
From: FFR554 at aol.com (FFR554 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:00:06 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
Message-ID: <6bdcc.5d2f9dd8.38da77c6@aol.com>

Tom speaks for me, also.  His words should be considered by all.   Lets get 
back to planning for speed and wait and see what happens with Health  Care.
 
Bruce
 
 
In a message dated 3/23/2010 8:04:59 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
saltracer at awwwsome.com writes:

Folks,  there is enough to rant about. Taxes are a way of life and I don't
complain  about that within reason. The original Tea Party was because of
taxes  without representation. This country's way of life is because  of
Capitalism". Government should create the environment that lets it  
flourish.
The desire to rise above status quo is man's nature unless it has  been
quenched. It is kind of like domesticating a wild animal. If turned  loose 
in
the wild it probably will not survive. Another possibility is that  it will
turn on you for no apparent reason. A good reason not to keep wild  
animals..
We should not be fenced in...our rights from God not from  government.
Hopefully those in power will open their eyes and consider the  message 
being
voiced. We are actually more intelligent than our leaders  think. To me,
Landracing proves it!

Tom (Freedom requires  Responsibility)

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Mar 23 13:42:16 2010
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:42:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
Message-ID: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>

List,

When connecting two engines together at the crankshafts, what is the 
best offset to use? My thought is that harmonics should be arranged 
such that the rear crankshaft gets as little abuse as possible. Ideas?

Thanks,
Skip

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Mar 23 13:51:32 2010
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:51:32 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NOW almost LSR related CARB SCHOOL
In-Reply-To: <6bdcc.5d2f9dd8.38da77c6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05B2F36E@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>

Motor in question: 302/ 650 holley/ no choke/ mechanical secondaries

I understand Holley sets these up for 70 degrees sea level.  It came w/
69 and 75 mains, 41airbleed mains and 69 air bleed idle.  It has a ?65?
power valve. (the motor pulls about 9" of vacuum at idle - I ordered a
couple of 45 power valves)

Symptom: during a long pull it just keeps getting richer and richer
until it misses (about 10:1 a/f )

Cause: I am at 6600 ft elevation.

Is there a formula to figure the jet changes?  Holley says 1 jet size
per 2000 feet.  What about the air bleeds?

Or am I doomed to discover the satisfaction of testing until I find a
good combo?????

Thanks in advance!

I remain the dummy from Durango.

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Mar 23 14:04:14 2010
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:04:14 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>
References: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite>

Having never done done this but intuitively I would separate the firing 
points 45 degrees EX if engine 1 were to fire at 0 BTDC I would have engine 
2 fire either 45 BTDC or 45 ATDC to fill in the time between firing any 
other choice would have them add to a higher torque level for the rear 
crankshaft. Obviously you need to add the ignition advance and only used 
those numbers for easy math..
Dave
BTW thanks for the racing related post!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:42 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines


> List,
>
> When connecting two engines together at the crankshafts, what is the best 
> offset to use? My thought is that harmonics should be arranged such that 
> the rear crankshaft gets as little abuse as possible. Ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Skip

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Tue Mar 23 14:32:52 2010
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:32:52 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite>
References: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>
	<38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20DA9C556@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

So the idea is to make it a smooth V16 instead of a synchronized Double
V8? Wonder what the Tractor Pull guys are doing with the 5 engine
setups?

Mike Meierle
Sr. Systems Engineer
Alcatel-Lucent
7751 Windsor Drive
Dublin, OH 43016
(614) 284-6229

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Dahlgren
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:04 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net; Skip Higginbotham
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines

Having never done done this but intuitively I would separate the firing
points 45 degrees EX if engine 1 were to fire at 0 BTDC I would have
engine
2 fire either 45 BTDC or 45 ATDC to fill in the time between firing any
other choice would have them add to a higher torque level for the rear
crankshaft. Obviously you need to add the ignition advance and only used

those numbers for easy math..
Dave
BTW thanks for the racing related post!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:42 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines


> List,
>
> When connecting two engines together at the crankshafts, what is the
best
> offset to use? My thought is that harmonics should be arranged such
that
> the rear crankshaft gets as little abuse as possible. Ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Skip
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/mike.meierle at alcatel-lu
cent.com

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Mar 23 14:42:46 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:42:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite>
References: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>
	<38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <20100323224116.0C2D3187649@autox.team.net>

Thank you and you are welcome!

I will try to get to the 45 degree number.....coupler is made and it 
has 20 teeth and 6 bolts so some combination of those should result 
in 42 degrees........or so. One bolt - one tooth...
or 60 degrees minus 18 degrees. Dang!!! My head hurts already.......

What can I do with my data logger to see how much the rear crank is twisting?

Skip



At 02:04 PM 3/23/2010, Dave Dahlgren wrote:
>Having never done done this but intuitively I would separate the 
>firing points 45 degrees EX if engine 1 were to fire at 0 BTDC I 
>would have engine 2 fire either 45 BTDC or 45 ATDC to fill in the 
>time between firing any other choice would have them add to a higher 
>torque level for the rear crankshaft. Obviously you need to add the 
>ignition advance and only used those numbers for easy math..
>Dave
>BTW thanks for the racing related post!!!
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat at pahrump.com>
>To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:42 PM
>Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
>
>
>>List,
>>
>>When connecting two engines together at the crankshafts, what is 
>>the best offset to use? My thought is that harmonics should be 
>>arranged such that the rear crankshaft gets as little abuse as possible. Ideas?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Skip

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Mar 23 15:05:17 2010
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:05:17 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <201003232141.o2NLfgDa027953@flpd120.prodigy.net>
References: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>
	<38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite>
	<201003232141.o2NLfgDa027953@flpd120.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <0FE2EE6008244BBA8B940BD8ADE005E0@DaveSatellite>

Put a speed sensor with the same number of teeth on the front and rear of 
the crank and watch for degrees of separation change. that will read 
directly into degrees of twist and I have no idea what is acceptable to be 
honest. Possibly a crankshaft company could give some guidance there.. I 
would be tempted to but them with a tooth at 14 degress ATDC as that is when 
peak cylinder pressure should be or very close to it at least and the 
greatest twist.. I would not swaet 42 or 45 degrees close enough... much 
better than 3...
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines


> Thank you and you are welcome!
>
> I will try to get to the 45 degree number.....coupler is made and it has 
> 20 teeth and 6 bolts so some combination of those should result in 42 
> degrees........or so. One bolt - one tooth...
> or 60 degrees minus 18 degrees. Dang!!! My head hurts already.......
>
> What can I do with my data logger to see how much the rear crank is 
> twisting?
>
> Skip
>
>
>
> At 02:04 PM 3/23/2010, Dave Dahlgren wrote:
>>Having never done done this but intuitively I would separate the firing 
>>points 45 degrees EX if engine 1 were to fire at 0 BTDC I would have 
>>engine 2 fire either 45 BTDC or 45 ATDC to fill in the time between firing 
>>any other choice would have them add to a higher torque level for the rear 
>>crankshaft. Obviously you need to add the ignition advance and only used 
>>those numbers for easy math..
>>Dave
>>BTW thanks for the racing related post!!!

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Mar 23 15:16:45 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:16:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <0FE2EE6008244BBA8B940BD8ADE005E0@DaveSatellite>
References: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>
	<38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite>
	<201003232141.o2NLfgDa027953@flpd120.prodigy.net>
	<0FE2EE6008244BBA8B940BD8ADE005E0@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <20100323231517.99035187649@autox.team.net>

Thanks Dave, I'll head that way.

How did you do at Sebring?

Skip




At 03:05 PM 3/23/2010, Dave Dahlgren wrote:
>Put a speed sensor with the same number of teeth on the front and 
>rear of the crank and watch for degrees of separation change. that 
>will read directly into degrees of twist and I have no idea what is 
>acceptable to be honest. Possibly a crankshaft company could give 
>some guidance there.. I would be tempted to but them with a tooth at 
>14 degress ATDC as that is when peak cylinder pressure should be or 
>very close to it at least and the greatest twist.. I would not swaet 
>42 or 45 degrees close enough... much better than 3...
>Dave
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
>To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:42 PM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
>
>
>>Thank you and you are welcome!
>>
>>I will try to get to the 45 degree number.....coupler is made and 
>>it has 20 teeth and 6 bolts so some combination of those should 
>>result in 42 degrees........or so. One bolt - one tooth...
>>or 60 degrees minus 18 degrees. Dang!!! My head hurts already.......
>>
>>What can I do with my data logger to see how much the rear crank is twisting?
>>
>>Skip

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Mar 23 15:31:27 2010
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:31:27 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20DA9C556@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
References: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>
	<38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20DA9C556@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <E7590CB262D84456847E4BADA3F46BC3@DaveSatellite>

My idea is you fill in you do not add much twist or torque and in you close 
them up they add to the torque on the rear crank has to transfer.. Like I 
said no practical experience but shooting form the hip here to avoid twist. 
Easiest way is to avoid load hence the 45 degree split.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MEIERLE Mike" <Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Skip 
Higginbotham" <Saltrat at pahrump.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines


So the idea is to make it a smooth V16 instead of a synchronized Double
V8? Wonder what the Tractor Pull guys are doing with the 5 engine
setups?

Mike Meierle
Sr. Systems Engineer
Alcatel-Lucent
7751 Windsor Drive
Dublin, OH 43016
(614) 284-6229

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Dahlgren
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:04 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net; Skip Higginbotham
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines

Having never done done this but intuitively I would separate the firing
points 45 degrees EX if engine 1 were to fire at 0 BTDC I would have
engine
2 fire either 45 BTDC or 45 ATDC to fill in the time between firing any
other choice would have them add to a higher torque level for the rear
crankshaft. Obviously you need to add the ignition advance and only used

those numbers for easy math..
Dave
BTW thanks for the racing related post!!!

From turborick at turborick.com  Tue Mar 23 15:36:14 2010
From: turborick at turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:36:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] El Mirage
In-Reply-To: <20100323224116.0C2D3187649@autox.team.net>
References: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>
	<38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite>
	<20100323224116.0C2D3187649@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <01c901cacad9$40280900$c0781b00$@com>

El Mirage in 52 days is everyone ready.....
I'm not :-)


Thanks

Rick Yacoucci
http://www.yacoucci.com
http://www.turborick.com

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Mar 23 16:16:34 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:16:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <E7590CB262D84456847E4BADA3F46BC3@DaveSatellite>
References: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>
	<38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20DA9C556@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<E7590CB262D84456847E4BADA3F46BC3@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <4BA94BD2.1060907@mayfco.com>

Hey, Dave! Good to see you survived all the snow and stuff.  You bring 
up an interesting sub plot in your statement.  And that would be  
placing teh  cranks in such a position that teh torques do add 
together.   Off hand it seems that by adding together such that the 
firing pulses add does indeed add the torques together and isn't that an 
increase in power?  If the pulses are off set, then the torque is much 
smoother but  it might not make as much horsepower because the peak 
torque is way lower?  Thinking like a V16 with two cylinders firing at 
the same time. To me that would also seem to lessen the load on the 
front of  the back engine's crank snout. Because both cranks are in 
synch with each other in firing.  Have to also watch for crank harmonics 
as well.  One of the smarter folk on teh list might be abble to do a 
harmonic analysis of two cranks tied together. 

Just odd thoughts as I do not and will not likely ever have that 
challenge, lol...

mayf
Dave Dahlgren wrote:

> My idea is you fill in you do not add much twist or torque and in you 
> close them up they add to the torque on the rear crank has to 
> transfer.. Like I said no practical experience but shooting form the 
> hip here to avoid twist. Easiest way is to avoid load hence the 45 
> degree split.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "MEIERLE Mike" 
> <Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
> To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>; 
> "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat at pahrump.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:32 PM
> Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
>
>
> So the idea is to make it a smooth V16 instead of a synchronized Double
> V8? Wonder what the Tractor Pull guys are doing with the 5 engine
> setups?
>
> Mike Meierle
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> Alcatel-Lucent
> 7751 Windsor Drive
> Dublin, OH 43016
> (614) 284-6229
>
> -

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 23 16:28:00 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:28:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] El Mirage
References: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net><38515CBD40E34030B744AF56BC083994@DaveSatellite><20100323224116.0C2D3187649@autox.team.net>
	<01c901cacad9$40280900$c0781b00$@com>
Message-ID: <EF832F3A3F7D4A0A9DE09436ADCCFED7@mydf7618c59bbf>

I'm ready....but then again I'm not planning on going..............JD



> El Mirage in 52 days is everyone ready.....
> I'm not :-)
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rick Yacoucci

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 17:41:57 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:41:57 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
Message-ID: <9326ADCDD0084E88A15CA79E1C2291E0@john>

I think crankshafts are stout to raise the harmonic frequency and resist 
bending . For torque capacity think how small the transmission input shaft 
is .
John



> List,
>
> When connecting two engines together at the crankshafts, what is the best 
> offset to use? My thought is that harmonics should be arranged such that 
> the rear crankshaft gets as little abuse as possible. Ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Mar 23 18:14:59 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:14:59 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <9326ADCDD0084E88A15CA79E1C2291E0@john>
References: <9326ADCDD0084E88A15CA79E1C2291E0@john>
Message-ID: <4BA96793.7020806@mayfco.com>

Aren't torsonial frequencies important?  That is probably more in line 
with shearing at the main bearing journals. 

mayf
John Burk wrote:

> I think crankshafts are stout to raise the harmonic frequency and 
> resist bending . For torque capacity think how small the transmission 
> input shaft is .
> John
>
>
>
>> List,
>>
>> When connecting two engines together at the crankshafts, what is the 
>> best offset to use? My thought is that harmonics should be arranged 
>> such that the rear crankshaft gets as little abuse as possible. Ideas?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Skip
>> _______________________________________________
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com

From mark at bradakis.com  Tue Mar 23 18:56:00 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:56:00 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] List topics
Message-ID: <4BA97130.90201@bradakis.com>

Here's what I meant to send the other day before I wrote up my
personal little rant.  I'm assuming most of you have the brain
power to substitute 'land-speed' for 'healeys' in this message.

And I do apologize for being one of the folks who kept the
political discussion going for longer than it should have.

mjb.



-------- Original Message --------

For those with a single digit IQ this could be hard to figure out.
Sort of like that fellow who sent 15 messages trying to get off
the list.  Alas, poor AOL loser, I did not know him well.

Healeys at autox.team.net is for discussion about Healeys.
I know, a shocking revelation.  Deal with it.

Sure, over the years a community of friends has been built up
and we often wander into the realms of other subjects.  Such
behavior can't be avoided and often offers a welcome respite
from a dry and droll monotone conversation.  [ Cannibal
kids?? ] Getting too far into politics is not appropriate for
this list.

I'm tempted to make use of my position as the all powerful
Lord and Omnipotent Ruler of Team.Net and subscribe the
lot of you to the list the-local at autox.team.net where you
would be welcome to rant and rave about politics until your
keyboard melts from the abuse and flaming responses.  You
can rest assured, though, that I would not start the ball rolling
by posting some sort of nonsense that would offend the most
people possible, never, honest, trust me ;-)

As for the Healey list, though, stay focused and play nice.

mjb.

http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/the-local

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 19:29:24 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:29:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] List topics
References: <4BA97130.90201@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <5C03C78AB78B4B29A86A9E2399203BFF@edc2750afa5a84>

OK ...... mea culpa too.  Will try to as I would on the Salt when wives/girl 
friends/daughters etc. are present.
But I gotta admit that it was neat discovering that there was an interesting 
human side to this "Bradakis" who seemed to be just a bit more than a tangle 
of computer code.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
To: "land speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:56 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] List topics


> Here's what I meant to send the other day before I wrote up my
> personal little rant.  I'm assuming most of you have the brain
> power to substitute 'land-speed' for 'healeys' in this message.
>
> And I do apologize for being one of the folks who kept the
> political discussion going for longer than it should have.
>
> mjb.
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
> For those with a single digit IQ this could be hard to figure out.
> Sort of like that fellow who sent 15 messages trying to get off
> the list.  Alas, poor AOL loser, I did not know him well.
>
> Healeys at autox.team.net is for discussion about Healeys.
> I know, a shocking revelation.  Deal with it.
>
> Sure, over the years a community of friends has been built up
> and we often wander into the realms of other subjects.  Such
> behavior can't be avoided and often offers a welcome respite
> from a dry and droll monotone conversation.  [ Cannibal
> kids?? ] Getting too far into politics is not appropriate for
> this list.
>
> I'm tempted to make use of my position as the all powerful
> Lord and Omnipotent Ruler of Team.Net and subscribe the
> lot of you to the list the-local at autox.team.net where you
> would be welcome to rant and rave about politics until your
> keyboard melts from the abuse and flaming responses.  You
> can rest assured, though, that I would not start the ball rolling
> by posting some sort of nonsense that would offend the most
> people possible, never, honest, trust me ;-)
>
> As for the Healey list, though, stay focused and play nice.
>
> mjb.
>
> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/the-local
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/23.weldon at comcast.net

From mark at bradakis.com  Tue Mar 23 19:45:27 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:45:27 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] List topics
In-Reply-To: <5C03C78AB78B4B29A86A9E2399203BFF@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <4BA97130.90201@bradakis.com>
	<5C03C78AB78B4B29A86A9E2399203BFF@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <4BA97CC7.8010405@bradakis.com>

23weldon wrote:
> But I gotta admit that it was neat discovering that there was an 
> interesting human side to this "Bradakis" who seemed to be just a bit 
> more than a tangle of computer code.

If you'd like to put a face with that name:

http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27

That first message is me along with my incredibly patient and
long-suffering wife, Karen.

mjb.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 20:17:48 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:17:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
References: <9326ADCDD0084E88A15CA79E1C2291E0@john>
Message-ID: <388A2B97802D47068B3E3BE60F692E59@edc2750afa5a84>

Sparky and others --
My thought on this is that more torsional dampening in the form of a better 
harmonic balancer might be what is called for.  Of course that is aside from 
the issues of misalignment between the two engines and Dave's suggestion to 
put in a 45 degree separation between the two engines to smooth out the 
torque peaks. But be careful with this.  Such a proposal can double the 
forcing frequency and put it closer to one of the new vibration mode 
frequencies than you want.
I do think that I'd want someone else's experience with the coupling of two 
engines as an example to follow or a benchmark.  Lacking that I'd spend some 
time relearning the methodology of torsional vibration analysis I learned in 
my mechanical vibrations course some 50 years ago and promptly forgot.  At 
the time the hot setup was a tabular calculation protocol known as Holzer's 
method.  http://www.sdrl.uc.edu/book/Chap-5.pdf  Den Hartog, pg 197
The right contact in the world of engine, turbine or other heavy rotating 
machinery engineering could provide access to modern computerized methods 
for torsional vibration analysis.  If you were to get into this your shop 
capabilities would likely make it possible to determine actual spring 
constants and moments of inertia that an engineer with the right software 
would need to begin the calculations.
Ed Weldon


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines


>I think crankshafts are stout to raise the harmonic frequency and resist 
>bending . For torque capacity think how small the transmission input shaft 
>is .
> John
>
>
>
>> List,
>>
>> When connecting two engines together at the crankshafts, what is the best 
>> offset to use? My thought is that harmonics should be arranged such that 
>> the rear crankshaft gets as little abuse as possible. Ideas?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Skip
>> _______________________________________________
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/23.weldon at comcast.net

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Mar 23 20:41:47 2010
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 03:41:47 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] List topics
Message-ID: <W20022473174421269402107@webmail15>

Mark,
>From the looks of the left side of the "killer spit", it appears that you have
killed a lot of orange cones in your time................

Ed V
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark J Bradakis [mailto:mark at bradakis.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 07:45 PM
To: 'land speed'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] List topics

23weldon wrote: > But I gotta admit that it was neat discovering that there
was an > interesting human side to this "Bradakis" who seemed to be just a bit
> more than a tangle of computer code. If you'd like to put a face with that
name: http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27 That first message is
me along with my incredibly patient and long-suffering wife, Karen. mjb.

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 21:31:35 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 00:31:35 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
Message-ID: <A67E2E16093148E6915E6066698DA8E1@john>

In Bill Hoddinott's Burkland interview in the most recent issue of 
Bonneville Racing News they said they have Vibratec Fluidampers with 4 keys 
on each engines and a custom coupler made from "old Lenco parts" between the 
crankshafts .
John



> Sparky and others --
> My thought on this is that more torsional dampening in the form of a 
> better harmonic balancer might be what is called for.  Of course that is 
> aside from the issues of misalignment between the two engines and Dave's 
> suggestion to put in a 45 degree separation between the two engines to 
> smooth out the torque peaks. But be careful with this.  Such a proposal 
> can double the forcing frequency and put it closer to one of the new 
> vibration mode frequencies than you want.
> I do think that I'd want someone else's experience with the coupling of 
> two engines as an example to follow or a benchmark.  Lacking that I'd 
> spend some time relearning the methodology of torsional vibration analysis 
> I learned in my mechanical vibrations course some 50 years ago and 
> promptly forgot.  At the time the hot setup was a tabular calculation 
> protocol known as Holzer's method.  http://www.sdrl.uc.edu/book/Chap-5.pdf 
> Den Hartog, pg 197
> The right contact in the world of engine, turbine or other heavy rotating 
> machinery engineering could provide access to modern computerized methods 
> for torsional vibration analysis.  If you were to get into this your shop 
> capabilities would likely make it possible to determine actual spring 
> constants and moments of inertia that an engineer with the right software 
> would need to begin the calculations.
> Ed Weldon
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
> To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
>
>
>>I think crankshafts are stout to raise the harmonic frequency and resist 
>>bending . For torque capacity think how small the transmission input shaft 
>>is .
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>> List,
>>>
>>> When connecting two engines together at the crankshafts, what is the 
>>> best offset to use? My thought is that harmonics should be arranged such 
>>> that the rear crankshaft gets as little abuse as possible. Ideas?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Skip
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/23.weldon at comcast.net

From race427 at aol.com  Wed Mar 24 03:15:18 2010
From: race427 at aol.com (race427 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:15:18 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Harley Davidson racers of Land Speed Racing...Branch
 Flowmetrics question
Message-ID: <8CC995209B492C5-C6C-1F1F@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com>

I have been searching for any and all articles, with limited success,
written by or about Jerry Branch and Flowmetrics.   Just enjoy reading
technical writings and stories by a person who is at the top of their
game.  There is much to be learned.  Would greatly appreciate any
copies of articles you may have about Jerry Branch and Flowmetrics.  I
understand that Mr. Branch visits the Salt Flats.   I will gladly pay
the postage.

  Thank you for your help !!

   Tony Greco

   LI,NY

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Mar 24 08:48:44 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:48:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <9326ADCDD0084E88A15CA79E1C2291E0@john>
References: <9326ADCDD0084E88A15CA79E1C2291E0@john>
Message-ID: <3708B8EA7A12492DB3B663AA28C79CA2@tiger>

John;

Crankshaft designs vary depending on what the engine is designed to drive. 
An aircraft engine drives a propeller, which is considered a "flexible 
load". Their crankshafts are light and so they lack the torsional stiffness 
of an automotive crankshaft. They also run at a relatively low RPM; even so, 
some engines have a section of the tach with a yellow segment and a warning 
not to operate for a long time within this RPM region. This is because it is 
a high harmonic vibration RPM and would cause eventual fatigue failure.

The old Mercedes GP car had a straight 8 cylinder engine but took the power 
off the middle of the crank to get around the long straight- 8 crank 
flexibility problem. They essentially converted the straight- 8 to two 
coupled inline 4s.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:41 PM
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines

> I think crankshafts are stout to raise the harmonic frequency and resist 
> bending . For torque capacity think how small the transmission input shaft 
> is .
> John
>
>
>
>> List,
>>
>> When connecting two engines together at the crankshafts, what is the best 
>> offset to use? My thought is that harmonics should be arranged such that 
>> the rear crankshaft gets as little abuse as possible. Ideas?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Skip

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 24 10:11:17 2010
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:11:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton
Message-ID: <878367.34853.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Is anybody on this list going to the April Maxton meet as a spectator?

DickJ
In East Texas

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Mar 24 10:50:46 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:50:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <SNT135-ds166669727B47409E31BE20F9250@phx.gbl>
References: <20100323214046.21B9618764A@autox.team.net>
	<SNT135-ds166669727B47409E31BE20F9250@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20100324184915.04C8718764E@autox.team.net>

Thanks everybody for the info.
Gary, I have the actual drawings of the Vesco coupler courtesy of 
Rick and Don several years ago and it looks nice and strong and good 
compliance. John, I have discussed the coupler issue with Tom and 
Gene some time ago. Their coupler idea without the fluid damper is 
roughly where I have ended up using Mark Williams coupler materials 
and quite a bit of trial and error in design and build of the coupler 
. I don't think that I can eliminate torsional harmonics with a fluid 
damper so I don't use one.....Nolan and Rick White used a simple chain coupler.
I have found, so far, that compliance must be considered before there 
can be a harmonic issue related to breaking a crankshaft. In other 
words, without enough compliance the engines will kill each other 
before the harmonics get going.

I will see what happens.

Thanks again for all the help.
Skip



At 10:37 PM 3/23/2010, Ellen Wilkinson wrote:
>Skip
>You might contact Rick Vesco the Turbinator started out with two 
>small blocks connected together. Hope you and Joyce are well
>
>Gary
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:Saltrat at pahrump.com>Skip Higginbotham
>To: <mailto:land-speed at autox.team.net>land-speed at autox.team.net
>Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:42 PM
>Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
>
>List,
>
>When connecting two engines together at the crankshafts, what is the
>best offset to use? My thought is that harmonics should be arranged
>such that the rear crankshaft gets as little abuse as possible. Ideas?
>
>Thanks,
>Skip

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Mar 24 11:05:15 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:05:15 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant
Message-ID: <20100324140515.N09NZ.48361.imail@eastrmwml30>

I have a recuring problem---I am having issues with the back rod journasl and mains---We have lost these with and with out dry sump--I am begining to suspect harmonics---

I run a flex plate with no converter and a circle track type auto pum drive cupler--I am thinking of running  clutch type flywheel instead of the flexplate---

thoughts and comments  thanks sparky

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Mar 24 13:02:26 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:02:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant
References: <20100324140515.N09NZ.48361.imail@eastrmwml30>
Message-ID: <546450511F2F4379BC10E1D2799451EA@edc2750afa5a84>

Sparky -- 
It's hard for me to imagine how torsional vibration harmonics could create 
this problem although I'll quickly defer to the experienced wisdom of guys 
like Dave Dahlgren or his ilk. (I like that word, "ilk".  Sort of fits 
Dave.)
We usually don't worry about lateral vibrations although theoretically that 
could be an issue if the wrong kind of unbalances are present or clearances 
in the main bearings are two high.
A few routine questions here.......
Are you happy with all the possible misalignments and two plane balance of 
the flexplate-torque converter assembly and the transmission to block 
interface?
How about all the oil flow passageways in the back half of the motor?
End clearance on the crank thrust bearing?
Anything out of the ordinary with your main bearing clearances?
What oil temperatures do you reach at the end of a good run and what kind of 
oil do you use?
Any possibility of weakness or out of the ordinary block distortion around 
the rear main structure under high power outputs or even from basic 
machining, checkable at assembly?
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
To: "AA list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:05 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant
>I have a recuring problem---I am having issues with the back rod journals 
>and mains---We have lost these with and with out dry sump--I am begining to 
>suspect harmonics---
> I run a flex plate with no converter and a circle track type auto pump 
> drive coupler--I am thinking of running  clutch type flywheel instead of 
> the flexplate--
> thoughts and comments  thanks sparky

From fosterap at flash.net  Wed Mar 24 13:16:59 2010
From: fosterap at flash.net (Jerry Foster)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton
In-Reply-To: <878367.34853.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <878367.34853.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9E1DE1817D6749C29E2C5A7295C2FB0E@blackhp>

I'm shooting for Saturday, wife going too, I think.

Jerry in Dallas




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dick J" <lsr_man at yahoo.com>
To: "lsr list autox" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:11 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton


> Is anybody on this list going to the April Maxton meet as a spectator?
> 
> DickJ
> In East Texas

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Mar 24 13:46:15 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:46:15 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant
In-Reply-To: <20100324140515.N09NZ.48361.imail@eastrmwml30>
References: <20100324140515.N09NZ.48361.imail@eastrmwml30>
Message-ID: <8E68DCCE98154D7AB7FFFBAA29C833A2@tiger>

Bill;

Are you using a crank damper? Sprint car guys don't for some reason and they 
lose a lot of cranks from fatigue cracks-- I don't know if it affects 
bearings as well.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:05 AM
To: "AA list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant

> I have a recuring problem---I am having issues with the back rod journasl 
> and mains---We have lost these with and with out dry sump--I am begining 
> to suspect harmonics---
>
> I run a flex plate with no converter and a circle track type auto pum 
> drive cupler--I am thinking of running  clutch type flywheel instead of 
> the flexplate---
>
> thoughts and comments  thanks sparky

From dlodom at charter.net  Wed Mar 24 14:19:18 2010
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:19:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant
References: <20100324140515.N09NZ.48361.imail@eastrmwml30>
Message-ID: <00d901cacb97$ab18f440$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Sparky, Sounds more like an oiling problem to me. Are the thrust bearing 
surfaces showing any lack of oil. I do some things to my mains in the small 
blocks that are not DART block. The rods will throw the oil off because of 
centrifugal force faster than the system can keep up at a high RPM for a 
long period of time. LSR being about the only type of racing where you don't 
lift for two minutes or more. With the dry sump system were you putting oil 
in both the front and back of the block? I know GM had some issues with the 
rear main thrust wearing out and changed bearings. I always liked the 
Vandervell bearings because the thrust was staked and not molded to the rear 
main.

The reason I don't think the harmonics is the issue is I have run both 
flexplate and flywheel  9500 at Bonneville with no converter and see no 
difference in the bearing surface.

Big Ditch Doug


>I have a recuring problem---I am having issues with the back rod journasl 
>and mains---We have lost these with and with out dry sump--I am begining to 
>suspect harmonics---
>
> I run a flex plate with no converter and a circle track type auto pum 
> drive cupler--I am thinking of running  clutch type flywheel instead of 
> the flexplate---
>
> thoughts and comments  thanks sparky

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Mar 24 15:35:01 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:35:01 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant
In-Reply-To: <8E68DCCE98154D7AB7FFFBAA29C833A2@tiger>
Message-ID: <20100324183501.IDQX7.878733.imail@eastrmwml49>

Neil,  
Yes we have the Big BBC hormonic balancer on the front---

 ---ie circle track guys crank problems---is what lead me to believe that not having  a HUGE mass on that end of the crank may be some of my problems
---
- Neil Albaugh <neil at dbelltech.com> wrote: 
> Bill;
> 
> Are you using a crank damper? Sprint car guys don't for some reason and they 
> lose a lot of cranks from fatigue cracks-- I don't know if it affects 
> bearings as well.
> 
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From kturk at adelphia.net  Wed Mar 24 15:37:13 2010
From: kturk at adelphia.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:37:13 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton?
Message-ID: <E7825D130E8A4C2F808E93E966C95A3C@KeithTurksPC>

Be cool to catch up with you two yahoo's....

Unfortunately Dick I'll be working a bit... wish I was going as a Spectator
again.. LOL

K

From saltfever at comcast.net  Wed Mar 24 18:16:49 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:16:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
Message-ID: <003701cacbb8$d8953ac0$89bfb040$@net>

It seems to me you may be smoothing out your torsional frequency. As Dave
mentioned the cylinder pressure is greatest somewhere around 14 degrees. If
you index the motors 45 degrees the pressure peak (on the rear motor) will
occur every 22 degrees. In addition the rear crank is preloaded with the
torque input of the front engine. That means the rear crank never returns to
its single engine torque value. You have decreased the amplitude of the
torque input and doubled its frequency.  For example, let's say one firing
impulse results in a pressure of 1,000 psi and bleeds down to something like
500 lbs due to overlap from the next firing cylinder. With the front engine
introducing a torque peak 22 degrees later the crank never returns to its
lowest state of a single motor. Torque amplitude is less and frequency
doubles. The only issue I see is doubling frequency moves anything closer to
destructive harmonics, but is it germane here? I think John Burk might be
right.

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Wed Mar 24 22:30:10 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 01:30:10 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant
Message-ID: <0F8106F73E0843DF8BEB69846E5D57CC@john>

Sparky are your crank and flexplate compatible as far as internal or 
external balance ? Have you checked the alignment of the crank and trans ? 
Has the block been line bored raising the crank out of alignment ?
John



>I have a recuring problem---I am having issues with the back rod journasl 
>and mains---We have lost these with and with out dry sump--I am begining to 
>suspect harmonics---
>
> I run a flex plate with no converter and a circle track type auto pum 
> drive cupler--I am thinking of running  clutch type flywheel instead of 
> the flexplate---
>
> thoughts and comments  thanks sparky
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Mar 25 04:54:16 2010
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 07:54:16 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant
In-Reply-To: <546450511F2F4379BC10E1D2799451EA@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <20100324140515.N09NZ.48361.imail@eastrmwml30>
	<546450511F2F4379BC10E1D2799451EA@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <96123ACC166540F99F0DB7175173D118@DaveSatellite>

What RPM do you run for the majority of the run. I know in years gone by 
there was a lot of trouble running offshore boats at 5000-5400 continuously. 
Cranks would flex and break along with main caps etc. If you dwell there a 
long time it could be an issue. Have you checked for crankshaft end play 
after the engine is installed? Did you run a dial indicator around the 
register in the bell housing to make sure the transmission is centered 
with the crankshaft. You need to do the same with the face of the bell 
housing to make sure the trans is directly inline with the crank too. I 
would definitely run a flex plate. The other applications run tires that are 
much more compliant and dampen the shock loads considerably.

Ilk is that a term of endearment? My ex-wife used to refer to me at times 
with that and she after all is my ex-wife so for her I would have to lean 
towards maybe not..LOL..
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "23weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant


> Sparky -- 
> It's hard for me to imagine how torsional vibration harmonics could create 
> this problem although I'll quickly defer to the experienced wisdom of guys 
> like Dave Dahlgren or his ilk. (I like that word, "ilk".  Sort of fits 
> Dave.)
> We usually don't worry about lateral vibrations although theoretically 
> that could be an issue if the wrong kind of unbalances are present or 
> clearances in the main bearings are two high.
> A few routine questions here.......
> Are you happy with all the possible misalignments and two plane balance of 
> the flexplate-torque converter assembly and the transmission to block 
> interface?
> How about all the oil flow passageways in the back half of the motor?
> End clearance on the crank thrust bearing?
> Anything out of the ordinary with your main bearing clearances?
> What oil temperatures do you reach at the end of a good run and what kind 
> of oil do you use?
> Any possibility of weakness or out of the ordinary block distortion around 
> the rear main structure under high power outputs or even from basic 
> machining, checkable at assembly?
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
> To: "AA list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:05 AM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant
>>I have a recuring problem---I am having issues with the back rod journals 
>>and mains---We have lost these with and with out dry sump--I am begining 
>>to suspect harmonics---
>> I run a flex plate with no converter and a circle track type auto pump 
>> drive coupler--I am thinking of running  clutch type flywheel instead of 
>> the flexplate--
>> thoughts and comments  thanks sparky

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Thu Mar 25 07:29:03 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:29:03 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] MiC---
Message-ID: <20100325102903.KE25Z.1057662.imail@eastrmwml36>

Dave, of all people you should know I am just the MONKEY sitting in the nose of this thing---you, John and ED are asking me GREAT analytical questions.  I am embarrassed to say that I can only say that the only thing I can say; we start off with around 70 psi and finish with around 50 psi---

being the MONKEY that I am-- I have not worked though all of the DATA LOGGING issues---but thanks to you two and all the others Eng building  questions furnished by others---you have given me some areas for GROWTH---

maybe from Rhesus to Chimp---definitely NOT to Orangutan or much less Great APE   !!!!!!!!!!  lol

sparky the MiC

 monkey in the cockpit

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Thu Mar 25 07:34:24 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:34:24 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] BBC issues
Message-ID: <20100325103424.AGQ4G.1057759.imail@eastrmwml36>

Dave and others---I will Print the responses and group all the questions and answer to  my knowledge LIMITS

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Thu Mar 25 15:10:37 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:10:37 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Real Racing --no rant
Message-ID: <6B7B3B32FFE248C2BDDD2E0EFCD48634@john>

Sparky
I think I'm remembering this correctly my engine machinist said on later bbc 
with the rear cam bearings oil entering at 9 o'clock (front view) the 
bearing sometimes fails and reduces oil pressure to the rear main bearing . 
His fix is to drill a new cam bg oil feed hole up from the rear main and 
reinstall the bearing with the feed hole at the bottom  making it like 427s 
were . If you find your rear cam bearing is warn that might explain your 
problem . Somebody tell me if I'm remembering wrong
John



> Sparky are your crank and flexplate compatible as far as internal or 
> external balance ? Have you checked the alignment of the crank and trans ? 
> Has the block been line bored raising the crank out of alignment ?
> John
>
>
>
>>I have a recuring problem---I am having issues with the back rod journasl 
>>and mains---We have lost these with and with out dry sump--I am begining 
>>to suspect harmonics---
>>
>> I run a flex plate with no converter and a circle track type auto pum 
>> drive cupler--I am thinking of running  clutch type flywheel instead of 
>> the flexplate---
>>
>> thoughts and comments  thanks sparky
>> _______________________________________________
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/joyseydevil at comcast.net

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Mar 25 15:30:42 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:30:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Multiple Engines
In-Reply-To: <003701cacbb8$d8953ac0$89bfb040$@net>
References: <003701cacbb8$d8953ac0$89bfb040$@net>
Message-ID: <20100325232909.138A0187657@autox.team.net>

I think so too. So, if I understand, the rear crank effectively stays 
loaded and never unloads as much as it would have on it's own. As you 
point out, the cycle is therefore shorter in amplitude so loads are 
much less than they would be if the engines fired together although 
the total load is higher. It would be interesting to know actually 
what doubling the frequency might do but it doesn't seem to matter 
with the loads reduced from worst case.
Thanks Kirk.





At 06:16 PM 3/24/2010, Kirkwood wrote:
>It seems to me you may be smoothing out your torsional frequency. As Dave
>mentioned the cylinder pressure is greatest somewhere around 14 degrees. If
>you index the motors 45 degrees the pressure peak (on the rear motor) will
>occur every 22 degrees. In addition the rear crank is preloaded with the
>torque input of the front engine. That means the rear crank never returns to
>its single engine torque value. You have decreased the amplitude of the
>torque input and doubled its frequency.  For example, let's say one firing
>impulse results in a pressure of 1,000 psi and bleeds down to something like
>500 lbs due to overlap from the next firing cylinder. With the front engine
>introducing a torque peak 22 degrees later the crank never returns to its
>lowest state of a single motor. Torque amplitude is less and frequency
>doubles. The only issue I see is doubling frequency moves anything closer to
>destructive harmonics, but is it germane here? I think John Burk might be
>right.

From NT788 at comcast.net  Fri Mar 26 08:14:18 2010
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:14:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Political RANT
In-Reply-To: <SNT105-DS202B25AA207867BBCD3E71AC260@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <612087388.10985801269616458113.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

LOL

Only if she's a Nurse Maid.... B 

Hmmm

K

--------------------------------------------------
> Mayf
>
> What if you needed one?
>
> Jack
>
>
>
>
> Me too, Jack! B B B I do not want a nanny.
>
> mayf
>
> B 

From saltfevr at q.com  Fri Mar 26 19:30:21 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 20:30:21 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Impact Racing Decertified
Message-ID: <SNT126-W498EFD2327B217DBB7DDF2C9220@phx.gbl>

Found this on Bangshift.com site.

 Bill Simpsons Impact Racing Gear decertified by SFI.

http://www.sfifoundation.com

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 26 20:47:19 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 20:47:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Impact Racing Decertified
References: <SNT126-W498EFD2327B217DBB7DDF2C9220@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F9596F0CCF134A54B814CEF0A6B67568@mydf7618c59bbf>

Making counterfeit patches to put on his stuff?  Allegedly sounds like he 
may not have been receiving enough of them fast enough and made his own it 
true....



> Found this on Bangshift.com site.
>
> Bill Simpsons Impact Racing Gear decertified by SFI.
>
> http://www.sfifoundation.com
>
> Tom Shannon
> Magna, Utah
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/gmc6power at earthlink.net

From adin at frontier.net  Fri Mar 26 21:36:27 2010
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:36:27 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Impact Racing Decertified
References: <SNT126-W498EFD2327B217DBB7DDF2C9220@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E27580AE6AB743C69AD18369DE2B85F3@ZTxp>

Thanks, good to know.

Not good news, my belts outdate this June. Dang.


David
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Shannon" <saltfevr at q.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 8:30 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Impact Racing Decertified


> Found this on Bangshift.com site.
>
> Bill Simpsons Impact Racing Gear decertified by SFI.
>
> http://www.sfifoundation.com
>
> Tom Shannon
> Magna, Utah
> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/adin at frontier.net
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
> signature database 4978 (20100326) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 


__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

From dlodom at charter.net  Sat Mar 27 09:59:10 2010
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:59:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Impact Racing Decertified
References: <SNT126-W498EFD2327B217DBB7DDF2C9220@phx.gbl>
	<F9596F0CCF134A54B814CEF0A6B67568@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <048e01cacdce$d3a93800$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

There just has to be more to this story. Don't know if we will ever hear it 
all but it is still sad.

Doug in big ditch


Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Impact Racing Decertified


> Making counterfeit patches to put on his stuff?  Allegedly sounds like he 
> may not have been receiving enough of them fast enough and made his own it 
> true....

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Mar 27 21:54:09 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 21:54:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Impact Racing Decertified
Message-ID: <000101cace32$b48e6d00$1dab4700$@net>

This time of year a lot of us are buying new safety equipment. That was a
very timely link you sent. Many thanks, Tom.

 

Interesting to note that SFI is decertifying the Company only. It is NOT
decertifying equipment in the field so as to ''not work a hardship on the
racers.'' However, they want all counterfeit patches removed from the
equipment and returned to SFI. Since SCTA, as well as others, require a
label on the equipment; removing it is the same as decertification, duh!

 

From: Tom Shannon

Found this on Bangshift.com site.Bill Simpsons Impact Racing Gear
decertified by SFI.

From race427 at aol.com  Sun Mar 28 18:39:07 2010
From: race427 at aol.com (race427 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 21:39:07 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] RB Racing and Mike Geokan  and LSR
In-Reply-To: <8CC9CF6FDEB51FA-784-2D1BB@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC9CF6FDEB51FA-784-2D1BB@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CC9CF7C1B71D9B-784-2D2BA@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com>

Hello Gang,

    I am certain many of you have seen this web site, but for those of
you who have not, I believe it is worth the read.   A very informative
and educational web site indeed.  One could spend hours just reading
through all of their links.  Good to see that there is a company who
has their exhaust theory down to a "science" and does not worry about
sound alone !!

   Mike Geokan has to be respected, a Viet Nam Veteran who continues to
follow his dream on the Salt Flats !!  He runs one impressive bike and
with an even more impressive engine.

   The more I read in this web site, the more informative I can bring
into my shop class here at school.  The information is similar to
reading a technical book, the best kind.  Always did enjoy reading
technical stuff since high school.

  Give RB Racing.com a look, you will enjoy it !!!

  Hope this helps you !!

  Thanks,

    Tony G    LI,NY

From turborick at turborick.com  Sun Mar 28 20:47:46 2010
From: turborick at turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:47:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] RB Racing and Mike Geokan  and LSR
In-Reply-To: <8CC9CF7C1B71D9B-784-2D2BA@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC9CF6FDEB51FA-784-2D1BB@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com>
	<8CC9CF7C1B71D9B-784-2D2BA@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <009c01cacef2$98f10420$cad30c60$@com>

Cool sites.....Just be very careful doing business with RB Racing 
I and several others have made very expensive mistakes.

Anyone want a RB racing ECU.... really cheap with a harness very little use


Thanks

Rick Yacoucci
http://www.yacoucci.com
http://www.turborick.com


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of race427 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 6:39 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] RB Racing and Mike Geokan and LSR

Hello Gang,

    I am certain many of you have seen this web site, but for those of
you who have not, I believe it is worth the read.   A very informative
and educational web site indeed.  One could spend hours just reading
through all of their links.  Good to see that there is a company who
has their exhaust theory down to a "science" and does not worry about
sound alone !!

   Mike Geokan has to be respected, a Viet Nam Veteran who continues to
follow his dream on the Salt Flats !!  He runs one impressive bike and
with an even more impressive engine.

   The more I read in this web site, the more informative I can bring
into my shop class here at school.  The information is similar to
reading a technical book, the best kind.  Always did enjoy reading
technical stuff since high school.

  Give RB Racing.com a look, you will enjoy it !!!

  Hope this helps you !!

  Thanks,

    Tony G    LI,NY
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/turborick at turborick.com

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Mar 29 03:46:58 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 04:46:58 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Athol Grahams Liner to be rebuilt
Message-ID: <SNT126-W12262DED0F6599D9AD0016C9200@phx.gbl>

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14765190

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

From desotoman at dslextreme.com  Mon Mar 29 11:16:13 2010
From: desotoman at dslextreme.com (desotoman @dslextreme.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:16:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Athol Grahams Liner to be rebuilt
In-Reply-To: <F609ABC0C6EB46B482101D5DFFC80036@GlenPC>
References: <F609ABC0C6EB46B482101D5DFFC80036@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <51a5f2e01003291116m6c9144e9jba1748cdda9a4ee5@mail.gmail.com>

Nice article, thanks Glen. I saw where we all can help by buying a T-shirt.

Tom Gerardi


*Want to help?*

To raise money to finance the rebuild, Butch is selling commemorative
T-shirts at his shop, Paint West, 1606 West 3500 South.


On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 7:11 AM, <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> wrote:

> Article in the Salt Lake Tribune today.
> Subject: [Land-speed] Athol Grahams Liner to be rebuilt
>
>
>  http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14765190
>>
>>
> Glen
>
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 29 14:44:09 2010
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (Joe & Lynne Lance)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:44:09 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Athol Grahams Liner to be rebuilt
In-Reply-To: <51a5f2e01003291116m6c9144e9jba1748cdda9a4ee5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F609ABC0C6EB46B482101D5DFFC80036@GlenPC>
	<51a5f2e01003291116m6c9144e9jba1748cdda9a4ee5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <393ED8EAB82B43F69F9A5A53DC05AC59@josephb4d4bd9f>

I remember Mickey Thompson's comment at the time: "Athol Graham can't make
400 without AWD"

Lance

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of desotoman
@dslextreme.com
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 2:16 PM
To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
Cc: land speed list
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: Athol Grahams Liner to be rebuilt

Nice article, thanks Glen. I saw where we all can help by buying a T-shirt.

Tom Gerardi


*Want to help?*

To raise money to finance the rebuild, Butch is selling commemorative
T-shirts at his shop, Paint West, 1606 West 3500 South.


On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 7:11 AM, <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> wrote:

> Article in the Salt Lake Tribune today.
> Subject: [Land-speed] Athol Grahams Liner to be rebuilt
>
>
>  http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14765190
>>
>>
> Glen
>
>> Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/jolylance at earthlink.net

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 30 19:16:10 2010
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:16:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Official SCTA statement re: Impact Racing Products
Message-ID: <896575.68325.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

This is the just released statement from SCTA:
B 
Southern California Timing Association, Inc.
Bonneville Nationals, Incorporated

Tuesday, March 30, 2010
RE: DECERTIFICATION OF MOST SFI APPROVED IMPACT RACING PRODUCTS
The following press release from SFI was announced this past Friday and in
essence it decertifies most
of the SFI approved Impact Racing products. This quote was taken from the
press release: bAt this time
SFI does not know how many products have counterfeit labels and patches and
which ones have
authentic labels and patches. Therefore, it was unfortunately necessary to
decertify all the products
manufactured by Impact pursuant to SFI specifications 3.2A, 3.3, 16.1 and
16.5.b The full press release
can be viewed by following this link: http://www.sfifoundation.com/
After careful consideration and investigation by the SCTA Technical Committee,
inclusive of
information exchanged with representatives from the safety certification
organizations SFI and Snell,
SCTA / BNI has decided to follow their recommendations. In plain English this
is how this decision
may affect you. If you currently own any of the decertified Impact Racing
products listed below you will
be required to replace them with a non-Impact product prior to competing at an
SCTA-BNI event.
3.2A Driver Suits (3.2A/1, 3.2A/3, 3.2A/5)
3.2A Driver Suits (3.2A/10, 3.2A/15, 3.2A/20)
B 
3.3 Driver Accessories:
Arm Restraints
Shoes (3.3/5)
Drag Boots (3.3/15, 3.3/20)
Gloves (3.3/1, 3.3/5, 3.3/10, 3.3/15, 3.3/20)
Harness Pads
Helmet Supports
Hoods/Balaclavas
Socks
Underclothing
B 
16.1 Driver Restraint Assemblies
16.5 Stock Car Driver Restraint Assemblies
B 
Other Impact products not listed MAY also be under scrutiny and may be
decertified at any time in the
future. Impact manufactured helmets ARE NOT decertified at this time. However,
if the helmet has an
SFI certification tag for the nomex interior or balaclavas, then you will be
required to use an additional
nomex head sock, manufactured by another company, with a SFI certification tag
attached.
For specific questions please contact:
B 
Lee Kennedy, Technical DirectorB 
Lee.Kennedy at AVMetrics.net
805.421.5056 Ext 113(O)
818.519.6896 (C)
Steve Davies, Chief Car Inspector
flyingkiwi97 at aol.com
(714) 671-9454
Van Butler, Motorcycle Committee Chair
SCTA b BNI
catherinejuneau3 at mac.com
(949) 497-6478
B 
DW
XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!


A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435B  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
B B 

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 09:54:58 2010
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:54:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Official SCTA statement re: Impact Racing Products
Message-ID: <714270.70475.qm@web52505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I'm resending this because I didn't get a copy in my mailbox.
B 
DW
B 
From: dan warner <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Official SCTA statement re: Impact Racing Products
To: "land speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 7:16 PM








This is the just released statement from SCTA:
B 
Southern California Timing Association, Inc.
Bonneville Nationals, Incorporated

Tuesday, March 30, 2010
RE: DECERTIFICATION OF MOST SFI APPROVED IMPACT RACING PRODUCTS
The following press release from SFI was announced this past Friday and in
essence it decertifies most
of the SFI approved Impact Racing products. This quote was taken from the
press release: bAt this time
SFI does not know how many products have counterfeit labels and patches and
which ones have
authentic labels and patches. Therefore, it was unfortunately necessary to
decertify all the products
manufactured by Impact pursuant to SFI specifications 3.2A, 3.3, 16.1 and
16.5.b The full press release
can be viewed by following this link: http://www.sfifoundation.com/
After careful consideration and investigation by the SCTA Technical Committee,
inclusive of
information exchanged with representatives from the safety certification
organizations SFI and Snell,
SCTA / BNI has decided to follow their recommendations. In plain English this
is how this decision
may affect you. If you currently own any of the decertified Impact Racing
products listed below you will
be required to replace them with a non-Impact product prior to competing at an
SCTA-BNI event.
3.2A Driver Suits (3.2A/1, 3.2A/3, 3.2A/5)
3.2A Driver Suits (3.2A/10, 3.2A/15, 3.2A/20)
B 
3.3 Driver Accessories:
Arm Restraints
Shoes (3.3/5)
Drag Boots (3.3/15, 3.3/20)
Gloves (3.3/1, 3.3/5, 3.3/10, 3.3/15, 3.3/20)
Harness Pads
Helmet Supports
Hoods/Balaclavas
Socks
Underclothing
B 
16.1 Driver Restraint Assemblies
16.5 Stock Car Driver Restraint Assemblies
B 
Other Impact products not listed MAY also be under scrutiny and may be
decertified at any time in the
future. Impact manufactured helmets ARE NOT decertified at this time. However,
if the helmet has an
SFI certification tag for the nomex interior or balaclavas, then you will be
required to use an additional
nomex head sock, manufactured by another company, with a SFI certification tag
attached.
For specific questions please contact:
B 
Lee Kennedy, Technical DirectorB 
Lee.Kennedy at AVMetrics.net
805.421.5056 Ext 113(O)
818.519.6896 (C)
Steve Davies, Chief Car Inspector
flyingkiwi97 at aol.com
(714) 671-9454
Van Butler, Motorcycle Committee Chair
SCTA b BNI
catherinejuneau3 at mac.com
(949) 497-6478
B 
DW
XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!


A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435B  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
B B 

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Wed Mar 31 12:33:37 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:33:37 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Valve cover gaskets
Message-ID: <ACC984013D8746E195955318978BFCB8@john>

I have 2 questions relating to the crankcase vacuum of a dry sump pump .

Any of you folks turn the rear main or front cover seals with the lip outward
?

Do cork valve cover gaskets ever get sucked inward ?

John Burk

From jdincau at qnet.com  Wed Mar 31 14:36:46 2010
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:36:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Valve cover gaskets
In-Reply-To: <ACC984013D8746E195955318978BFCB8@john>
References: <ACC984013D8746E195955318978BFCB8@john>
Message-ID: <373DCBF86F1F412CA316E0B4DC4835A2@denpc>

no and no



>I have 2 questions relating to the crankcase vacuum of a dry sump pump .
>
> Any of you folks turn the rear main or front cover seals with the lip 
> outward
> ?
>
> Do cork valve cover gaskets ever get sucked inward ?
>
> John Burk

From v4gmr at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 16:02:07 2010
From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:02:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Valve cover gaskets
In-Reply-To: <373DCBF86F1F412CA316E0B4DC4835A2@denpc>
Message-ID: <750222.91174.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Using a Pan-evact pump on a SBC I know that double lip seals may be necessary
to keep it from pumping an oil mist into the headers. Maybe that would be a
better way. Don't know wbout cork Valve cover gaskets.

--- On Wed, 3/31/10, Jim Dincau <jdincau at qnet.com> wrote:


From: Jim Dincau <jdincau at qnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Valve cover gaskets
To: "land Speed List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>, "John Burk"
<joyseydevil at comcast.net>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 2:36 PM


no and no



>I have 2 questions relating to the crankcase vacuum of a dry sump pump .
>
> Any of you folks turn the rear main or front cover seals with the lip
> outward
> ?
>
> Do cork valve cover gaskets ever get sucked inward ?
>
> John Burk
_______________________________________________
Land-speed at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
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From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Mar 31 18:36:59 2010
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 14:36:59 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Valve cover gaskets
In-Reply-To: <373DCBF86F1F412CA316E0B4DC4835A2@denpc>
References: <ACC984013D8746E195955318978BFCB8@john>
	<373DCBF86F1F412CA316E0B4DC4835A2@denpc>
Message-ID: <F5DE16D3BDC04676AFDA4B62C5A0BD7E@ChrisHarrisPC>

John,

We plan on running pan vac this year. In past we've vented our engine to 
atmosphere while using a 4 stage dry sump pump.
We will seal engine up plus run an electric vacuum pump. These are easy to 
mount anywhere, not requiring extra belt drive and associated pulley. Will 
wire to switch on with ignition and it
will pull 10" at all times. Will dyno engine using vac from oil pump 
initially, then observe what electric pump adds. Will install vac relief 
valve to maintain 10 to 12". Anymore vac requires extra money being spent on 
coated wrist pins and other mods to seals & gaskets etc for minimal extra 
gain I'm told.

Will be interesting dyno test, will let you know if interested.

Chris Harris...........NZed.

>>I have 2 questions relating to the crankcase vacuum of a dry sump pump .
>>
>> Any of you folks turn the rear main or front cover seals with the lip 
>> outward
>> ?
>>
>> Do cork valve cover gaskets ever get sucked inward ?
>>
>> John Burk
> _______________________________________________