From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Feb  1 01:05:29 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:05:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
In-Reply-To: <38EC0C9146634416ABDDFC15BC40179D@tiger>
References: <4B662B75.4040301@mayfco.com>
	<38EC0C9146634416ABDDFC15BC40179D@tiger>
Message-ID: <4B668B49.4020904@bradakis.com>

Neil Albaugh wrote:
> You're still on it, Mayf----or I'm off too.

 From what I've seen, pretty much everyone on this list is a little off...


mjb.

From kturk at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  1 05:26:50 2010
From: kturk at adelphia.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:26:50 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
References: <4B662B75.4040301@mayfco.com><38EC0C9146634416ABDDFC15BC40179D@tiger>
	<4B668B49.4020904@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <9DD65C356F034D13BADB02083B5D9D46@keithhrijwmm4p>

I'm still alive...... even looked at the Camaro yesterday..... Didn't do 
anything about it... but I looked at it....

it's a Dirty thing....  oh and couple of weeks ago I popped the radiator 
line to keep it from Freezing....

Did I mention I HATE winter.... LOL

K 

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Mon Feb  1 06:34:34 2010
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:34:34 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
In-Reply-To: <4B668B49.4020904@bradakis.com>
References: <4B662B75.4040301@mayfco.com>
	<38EC0C9146634416ABDDFC15BC40179D@tiger>
	<4B668B49.4020904@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <312E07F4D27F4E9E8CE5E99A0A7A20B7@Dell4400>

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>

> Neil Albaugh wrote:
>> You're still on it, Mayf----or I'm off too.
>
> From what I've seen, pretty much everyone on this list is a little off...
>
>
> mjb.
>

I beg to differ,

 I maintain that, it's the rest of the world that's off.   Everyone on this 
list is spot on ! 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Feb  1 07:51:16 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:51:16 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
In-Reply-To: <4B668B49.4020904@bradakis.com>
References: <4B662B75.4040301@mayfco.com>
	<38EC0C9146634416ABDDFC15BC40179D@tiger>
	<4B668B49.4020904@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <4B66EA64.1040803@mayfco.com>

Hey! I resemble that remark! I am just maybe a bit wider off than 
most......moohahahaha (evil laugh)

mayf

Mark J Bradakis wrote:

> Neil Albaugh wrote:
>
>> You're still on it, Mayf----or I'm off too.
>
>
> From what I've seen, pretty much everyone on this list is a little off...
>
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Feb  1 07:54:34 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:54:34 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
In-Reply-To: <9DD65C356F034D13BADB02083B5D9D46@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <4B662B75.4040301@mayfco.com><38EC0C9146634416ABDDFC15BC40179D@tiger>
	<4B668B49.4020904@bradakis.com>
	<9DD65C356F034D13BADB02083B5D9D46@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <4B66EB2A.1020000@mayfco.com>

Huh? You practically live on the equator!  But I do know what ya mean.. 
me too....

mayf
Keith Turk wrote:

> I'm still alive...... even looked at the Camaro yesterday..... Didn't 
> do anything about it... but I looked at it....
>
> it's a Dirty thing....  oh and couple of weeks ago I popped the 
> radiator line to keep it from Freezing....
>
> Did I mention I HATE winter.... LOL
>
> K _______________________________________________

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Feb  1 07:57:52 2010
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:57:52 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
In-Reply-To: <4B66EB2A.1020000@mayfco.com>
References: <4B662B75.4040301@mayfco.com><38EC0C9146634416ABDDFC15BC40179D@tiger>
	<4B668B49.4020904@bradakis.com>
	<9DD65C356F034D13BADB02083B5D9D46@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<4B66EB2A.1020000@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <E997F6D0-8317-47A1-B138-A9B08B2FAA0A@nancyandjon.org>

On Feb 1, 2010, at 9:54 AM, drmayf wrote:

Huh? You practically live on the equator!  But I do know what ya mean.. me
too....

mayf
Keith Turk wrote:

> I'm still alive...... even looked at the Camaro yesterday..... Didn't do
anything about it... but I looked at it....
>
> it's a Dirty thing....  oh and couple of weeks ago I popped the radiator
line to keep it from Freezing....
>
> Did I mention I HATE winter.... LOL
>
> K _______________________________________________
__





Yes, Keith, you have mentioned your distaste for winter.  Good thing you're
not here with us, then -- it's almost 10AM -- and the temperature is already
up to +2F.  Break out the tank tops, Nancy!

      Jon Wennerberg
Tall guy with moustache
and a pair of 2 Club hats

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Mon Feb  1 10:53:13 2010
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:53:13 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
Message-ID: <d478.304b39cc.38986f09@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/1/2010 3:02:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
mark at bradakis.com writes:

Neil  Albaugh wrote:
> You're still on it, Mayf----or I'm off too.

>From  what I've seen, pretty much everyone on this list is a little  off...


mjb.


Mark,
We're Off ? 
You're the one writing emails at 3 AM !
Plus, if you keep communicating, you'd better contribute $ to yourself. 
BW

From dwright at genetics.utah.edu  Mon Feb  1 12:42:41 2010
From: dwright at genetics.utah.edu (Dan Wright)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:42:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Question
Message-ID: <CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF6FB0427FC81@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>

Hi
I have a question-I'm sure some of you folks know the answer off the top of
your head-
What is the Frontal Area and the Coefficient of Drag of a typical Bonneville
Gas/Fuel Roadster??
The rules for these classes don't allow for much variation in the things that
affect these numbers.

I am involved in the currently ongoing build of a Gas Roadster for the USFRA
Club Volunteers.  Not intended to compete for class records, more like a class
legal Drivers Ed car.
It's intended to let the volunteers who work so hard to conduct the races get
a taste of the salt racing experience.
You can see some recent build photos here.
http://www.saltflats.com/club_car.htm

I always hear the roadsters described as a "brick", but I would really like to
have some rough numbers to think about.
Thanks in advance.

Dan Wright

A GUY WHO DRIVES
A CAR WIDE OPEN
IS NOT THINKIN'
HE'S JUST HOPIN'
Burma Shave

From dwright at genetics.utah.edu  Mon Feb  1 13:00:29 2010
From: dwright at genetics.utah.edu (Dan Wright)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:00:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Question
In-Reply-To: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05983725@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF6FB0427FC85@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>

David
Thanks, we hope that the opportunity to see things from the drivers
perspective will help our folks better understand the issues racers deal with.
Nothing like a taste of Bonneville reality to ramp up moral, motivation and
participation.  The only way to get in the seat of this car is to have worked
at least two events.
It ought to be a hoot to see these folks get a license step or two.

Dan Wright

 "I have not failed. I have just found ten thousand ways that won't work."
Thomas Edison

-----Original Message-----
From: Adin, David [mailto:DavidAdin at mercydurango.org]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:47 PM
To: Dan Wright
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Question

Ha!  Good for you, those folks need a little something besides a wave
from an old bum (that would be me).

I'd check the Mayfield website  - mayfco ????  there are CD charts
there.

Maybe he'll perk up and offer some insight . . .

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  1 13:04:28 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:04:28 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Question
Message-ID: <21571569.1265054669131.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Does it matter? Use a 32 shell, a straight axle, put the steering behind it, mount the shocks inside the hood/shell, skinniest front tires you can find, mount the cage as low as you can and get a 5 foot driver to drive it.



>
>Hi
>I have a question-I'm sure some of you folks know the answer off the top of
>your head-
>What is the Frontal Area and the Coefficient of Drag of a typical Bonneville
>Gas/Fuel Roadster??
>The rules for these classes don't allow for much variation in the things that
>affect these numbers.

From dwright at genetics.utah.edu  Mon Feb  1 13:20:58 2010
From: dwright at genetics.utah.edu (Dan Wright)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:20:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Question
In-Reply-To: <21571569.1265054669131.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF6FB0427FC86@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>

J.D.
Well, no it doesn't actually matter.  I realize that my knowing the number
doesn't change it.
But that doesn't mean I don't want to know?!?!

Most of the crap I know doesn't really matter that I know it, but I still like
knowing.  I know those numbers for my liner.  The knowing doesn't change them,
but it helps me put some things in better perspective.
I know how much I weigh, and that knowledge doesn't seem to help anything
either.

Oh yeah, we built using a Model A drop axle, and cut the roll bat to fit Monte
Widdison -- (somewhat over five feet tall)-- remember, this car will never
compete for records, it's a Drivers Ed car.

Dan Wright -- Just a curious guy!!!

"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand"
--Kurt Vonnegut

-----Original Message-----
From: James Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 1:04 PM
To: Dan Wright; 'land-speed at autox.team.net'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Question

Does it matter? Use a 32 shell, a straight axle, put the steering behind it,
mount the shocks inside the hood/shell, skinniest front tires you can find,
mount the cage as low as you can and get a 5 foot driver to drive it.



>
>Hi
>I have a question-I'm sure some of you folks know the answer off the top of
>your head-
>What is the Frontal Area and the Coefficient of Drag of a typical Bonneville
>Gas/Fuel Roadster??
>The rules for these classes don't allow for much variation in the things
that
>affect these numbers.

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Feb  1 15:18:45 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:18:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] FW:  No News, Good News?
In-Reply-To: <C8856AE9-4548-47F7-9392-5933E50FE54C@comcast.net>
References: <4B662B75.4040301@mayfco.com>,
	<SNT126-W12115F867ADAA964C02AA0C9580@phx.gbl>,
	<C8856AE9-4548-47F7-9392-5933E50FE54C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <SNT126-W420C91FA515D6C025C832DC9580@phx.gbl>

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah






From: saltfevr at q.com
To: wester6935 at comcast.net; drmayf at mayfco.com
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:17:51 -0700



Wester:

I can't help if the little ole ladies wanting to ride my bus come from your
neighorhood! LOL

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
> From: wester6935 at comcast.net
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:03:38 -0700
> To: saltfevr at q.com; drmayf at mayfco.com
>
> Mayf,
>
> You can't trust a thing Shannon says. He's one of those drivers who stop in
the middle of the street with their flashers on many times a day.
>
> Wes
>
> On Jan 31, 2010, at 6:32 PM, Tom Shannon wrote:
>
> > Mayf:
> >
> >
> >
> > You're still part of us bud!!
> >
> > Guess everyone is busy starting their annual taxes? LOL
> >
> > I just found my monthly Feb. Harbor Freight ad in the mailbox. As KT
says,
> > "Life is good".
> >
> > Tom Shannon
> > Magna, Utah
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 17:16:37 -0800
> >> From: drmayf at mayfco.com
> >> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> >> Subject: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
> >>
> >> It has been silent on the list. Was I finally kicked off of it? Wonder
> >> why it took so long...
> >>
> >> mayf

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  1 15:58:46 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:58:46 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Question
Message-ID: <12072621.1265065126982.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Sparky.......What speed secrets....It's a friggin' BRICK.
PS: If you knew which end to look at you wouldn't build a Ford.....

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Feb  1 16:30:11 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:30:11 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Question
In-Reply-To: <12072621.1265065126982.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20100201183011.PF70K.41838.imail@fed1rmwml31>

LOL  



---- James Tone <gmc6power at earthlink.net> wrote: 
> Sparky.......What speed secrets....It's a friggin' BRICK.
> PS: If you knew which end to look at you wouldn't build a Ford.....
> _______________________________________________

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Feb  1 18:03:04 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:03:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Pulley Question
In-Reply-To: <20100201183011.PF70K.41838.imail@fed1rmwml31>
References: <20100201183011.PF70K.41838.imail@fed1rmwml31>
Message-ID: <796EFD6C44694A64839DC618032BD03B@tiger>

List;

Can anyone recommend a pulley ratio for an SBC crank to water pump and 
alternator? I think I'll be running 7000 to 7500 RPM max.: either pulley 
ratios or pulley diameters will help.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 4:30 PM
To: "Dan Wright" <dwright at genetics.utah.edu>; "James Tone" 
<gmc6power at earthlink.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Question

> LOL
>
>
>
> ---- James Tone <gmc6power at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Sparky.......What speed secrets....It's a friggin' BRICK.
>> PS: If you knew which end to look at you wouldn't build a Ford.....
>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Mon Feb  1 20:19:26 2010
From: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 03:19:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] GNRS
In-Reply-To: <140401730.2005021265080752615.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1557458189.2005111265080766802.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

1100 pictures on Bang Shift, whew! 

From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Feb  1 22:04:35 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:04:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No News, Good News?
In-Reply-To: <d478.304b39cc.38986f09@aol.com>
References: <d478.304b39cc.38986f09@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B67B263.2030503@bradakis.com>

> We're Off ?
> You're the one writing emails at 3 AM !


Old habits die hard.  Up all night is leftover from my years as a grad
student and sys admin at the U.

> Plus, if you keep communicating, you'd better contribute $ to yourself.
> BW
>  

I was going to fax myself my credit card info, but the fax machine
broke last night when my wife was trying to make some copies.  One
of those all in one type things.

Guess I'll have to just mail myself a check and wait for it to arrive!

mjb.

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Feb  2 12:40:13 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:40:13 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Pulley Question
In-Reply-To: <796EFD6C44694A64839DC618032BD03B@tiger>
References: <20100201183011.PF70K.41838.imail@fed1rmwml31>
	<796EFD6C44694A64839DC618032BD03B@tiger>
Message-ID: <20100202194042.B0BFF18787F@autox.team.net>

Neil,
I used to run my alternator off the driveline coupler at 18K max 
until the fan blades disintegrated....now I run it at about 12K max. 
It still charges great right off the line and I experienced no 
trouble with it last year. Can't help with water pump though....mine 
is electric.

Skip





At 05:03 PM 2/1/2010, Neil Albaugh wrote:
>List;
>
>Can anyone recommend a pulley ratio for an SBC crank to water pump 
>and alternator? I think I'll be running 7000 to 7500 RPM max.: 
>either pulley ratios or pulley diameters will help.
>
>Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
>Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 4:30 PM
>To: "Dan Wright" <dwright at genetics.utah.edu>; "James Tone" 
><gmc6power at earthlink.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Question
>
>>LOL
>>
>>
>>
>>---- James Tone <gmc6power at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>Sparky.......What speed secrets....It's a friggin' BRICK.
>>>PS: If you knew which end to look at you wouldn't build a Ford.....
>>>_______________________________________________
>>_______________________________________________
>>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Feb  2 12:43:16 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:43:16 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Pulley Question
Message-ID: <20100202194342.079B718787F@autox.team.net>

Neil,
I used to run my alternator off the driveline coupler at 18K max 
until the fan blades disintegrated....now I run it at about 12K max. 
It still charges great right off the line and I experienced no 
trouble with it last year. Can't help with water pump though....mine 
is electric.

Skip





At 05:03 PM 2/1/2010, Neil Albaugh wrote:
>List;
>
>Can anyone recommend a pulley ratio for an SBC crank to water pump 
>and alternator? I think I'll be running 7000 to 7500 RPM max.: 
>either pulley ratios or pulley diameters will help.
>
>Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 18:25:21 2010
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:25:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] 2010 SCTA rulebooks
Message-ID: <589977.11231.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I am informed that the 2010 rulebooks have been shipped to Mike Cook. Mike
will distribute the books to the office and SCTA store for shipment. SCTA club
reps will get their club book allotment this Friday at the board meeting. SCTA
members can get their books from their club.

I would like to thank everyone who gave of their time in order to get this
book out in a timely manner.

DW
XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!


A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
  

From saltfevr at q.com  Tue Feb  2 19:42:21 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:42:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] YouTube - Antique Auto Supply
In-Reply-To: <2FB02C7094E54F54AB09E5FBA9EAB54C@userPC>
References: <2FB02C7094E54F54AB09E5FBA9EAB54C@userPC>
Message-ID: <SNT126-W492C80D7E1F9C5FA34352CC9560@phx.gbl>

I knew more good things came from Arlington, other than my 1994 Buick
Roadmaster Wagon was made there. Thanks Dale for the video. Long Live Stacy!!
And others like him!

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah






From: d.pulju at pahrump.com
To: ;
Subject: YouTube - Antique Auto Supply
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:47:09 -0800





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VadAcb94GZE&feature=dir

dale

for car bufs

From benn at sonic.net  Tue Feb  2 21:41:33 2010
From: benn at sonic.net (Benn)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 20:41:33 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] YouTube - Antique Auto Supply
References: <2FB02C7094E54F54AB09E5FBA9EAB54C@userPC>
	<SNT126-W492C80D7E1F9C5FA34352CC9560@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C32BF77374634C1C93CFFF303090DDE7@BennsDesktop>

Oh, man, what a treasure!  Thanks for the link, bro'.
Benn


> From: d.pulju at pahrump.com
> To: ;
> Subject: YouTube - Antique Auto Supply
> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:47:09 -0800
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VadAcb94GZE&feature=dir
> 
> dale
> 
> for car bufs
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as benn at sonic.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Feb  3 18:09:29 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:09:29 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville
Message-ID: <4B6A1E49.2030203@mayfco.com>

How many Bonneville Salt Flats are there?

mayf

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Feb  3 20:50:08 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:50:08 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville
References: <4B6A1E49.2030203@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <F891D20E08FC4A7AB79DFBF83F9569C8@edc2750afa5a84>

3.  The one we race on, the one we drive by and the places you best not go 
(due to the presence of alien life forms).
The rest is an illusion created by those crazy types who think they can fly 
with the birds.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:09 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville


> How many Bonneville Salt Flats are there? mayf

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Wed Feb  3 22:31:11 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:31:11 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Bonneville
Message-ID: <0442AFA904E34F06AA5E4B9A7C990B0E@john>

Two



> How many Bonneville Salt Flats are there?
> 
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as joyseydevil at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Feb  3 23:02:31 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:02:31 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <4B6A1E49.2030203@mayfco.com>
References: <4B6A1E49.2030203@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4B6A62F7.8050303@mayfco.com>

The reason I asked this was because I was wondering why it is called the 
plural of flat.... Ie why isn't it the Bonneville Salt Flat (singular) 
instead of Bonnevill Salt Flats (plural).  If there is more than one, 
where the heck are they? 

mayf
drmayf wrote:

> How many Bonneville Salt Flats are there?
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From mark at bradakis.com  Wed Feb  3 23:57:14 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:57:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <F891D20E08FC4A7AB79DFBF83F9569C8@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <4B6A1E49.2030203@mayfco.com>
	<F891D20E08FC4A7AB79DFBF83F9569C8@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <4B6A6FCA.2070502@bradakis.com>

23weldon wrote:
> 3.  The one we race on, the one we drive by and the places you best 
> not go (due to the presence of alien life forms).

I often tell people that in my opinion the Department of Defense started the
rumors about Area 51 to draw attention away from Dugway.


mjb.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 01:49:03 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:49:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <4B6A6FCA.2070502@bradakis.com>
References: <4B6A1E49.2030203@mayfco.com>
	<F891D20E08FC4A7AB79DFBF83F9569C8@edc2750afa5a84>
	<4B6A6FCA.2070502@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <D9884FA7-6994-44C0-8876-0E4DFCD1F297@comcast.net>

Choose between Dugway Proving Grounds and the chemical testing there as well
as it being used as a firing range for the Utah National Guard and the Utah
Test and Training Range for Hill AFB on the north side of I-80 with access at
milepost 61 (for authorized vehicles only), there's a lot of Utah that has
been trashed by the mililtary.  Area 51 is just less available for travelers.
The Utah sites are more dangerous because of the unexploded munitions.

Wes

On Feb 3, 2010, at 11:57 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:

> 23weldon wrote:
>> 3.  The one we race on, the one we drive by and the places you best not go
(due to the presence of alien life forms).
>
> I often tell people that in my opinion the Department of Defense started
the
> rumors about Area 51 to draw attention away from Dugway.
>
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Feb  4 09:27:58 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:27:58 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <4B6A6FCA.2070502@bradakis.com>
References: <4B6A1E49.2030203@mayfco.com>
	<F891D20E08FC4A7AB79DFBF83F9569C8@edc2750afa5a84>
	<4B6A6FCA.2070502@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <4B6AF58E.9070909@mayfco.com>

I agree, there is more going on there than is being told.  I know that 
anti aging is being studied hard there.

mayf
Mark J Bradakis wrote:

> 23weldon wrote:
>
>> 3.  The one we race on, the one we drive by and the places you best 
>> not go (due to the presence of alien life forms).
>
>
> I often tell people that in my opinion the Department of Defense 
> started the
> rumors about Area 51 to draw attention away from Dugway.
>
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 10:55:10 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:55:10 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville
References: <4B6A1E49.2030203@mayfco.com><F891D20E08FC4A7AB79DFBF83F9569C8@edc2750afa5a84><4B6A6FCA.2070502@bradakis.com>
	<D9884FA7-6994-44C0-8876-0E4DFCD1F297@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <A2CBF27FA80F4F2EA380F05D279C7C61@edc2750afa5a84>

Wes -- You've got me worried now.  When I mentioned alien life forms I was 
thinking of Bonneville salt fish. You know, the ones that come out to breed 
during the August thunderstorms.......
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville


> Choose between Dugway Proving Grounds and the chemical testing there as 
> well
> as it being used as a firing range for the Utah National Guard and the 
> Utah
> Test and Training Range for Hill AFB on the north side of I-80 with access 
> at
> milepost 61 (for authorized vehicles only), there's a lot of Utah that has
> been trashed by the mililtary.  Area 51 is just less available for 
> travelers.
> The Utah sites are more dangerous because of the unexploded munitions.
> Wes

> On Feb 3, 2010, at 11:57 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:

>> 23weldon wrote:
>>> 3.  The one we race on, the one we drive by and the places you best not 
>>> go
> (due to the presence of alien life forms).

>> I often tell people that in my opinion the Department of Defense started
>> rumors about Area 51 to draw attention away from Dugway.
>> mjb.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 10:58:05 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:58:05 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville
References: <4B6A1E49.2030203@mayfco.com><F891D20E08FC4A7AB79DFBF83F9569C8@edc2750afa5a84><4B6A6FCA.2070502@bradakis.com>
	<D9884FA7-6994-44C0-8876-0E4DFCD1F297@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C01C943DE6044D3AB04A57C69C393801@edc2750afa5a84>

Wes -- You've got me worried now.  When I mentioned alien life forms I was
thinking of bonneville salt fish. You know, the ones that come out to breed
during the August thunderstorms.......
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
To: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville


> Choose between Dugway Proving Grounds and the chemical testing there as
> well
> as it being used as a firing range for the Utah National Guard and the
> Utah
> Test and Training Range for Hill AFB on the north side of I-80 with access
> at
> milepost 61 (for authorized vehicles only), there's a lot of Utah that has
> been trashed by the mililtary.  Area 51 is just less available for
> travelers.
> The Utah sites are more dangerous because of the unexploded munitions.
> Wes

> On Feb 3, 2010, at 11:57 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:

>> 23weldon wrote:
>>> 3.  The one we race on, the one we drive by and the places you best not
>>> go (due to the presence of alien life forms).

>> I often tell people that in my opinion the Department of Defense started
>> rumors about Area 51 to draw attention away from Dugway.
>> mjb.

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 15:02:21 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:02:21 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed]  Fw:  Bonneville
Message-ID: <97A806F03AE944FB906337FE08535F21@john>

 The one that's raced on and the one on north of Pilot Peak :
 http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=40.871988,-113.871918&spn=0.232092,0.598068&t=h&z=11> Explain?>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:31 PM, John Burk wrote:>>> Two>>>>>>>>>How many Bonneville Salt Flats are there?>>> mayf>>> _______________________________________________>>> SupportTeam.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html>>> Land-speed mailing list>>> You are subscribed asjoyseydevil at comcast.net>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed>> _______________________________________________>> Support Team.Nethttp://www.team.net/donate.html>>>> Land-speed mailing list>>>> You aresubscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net>>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed>>

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Fri Feb  5 08:07:24 2010
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:07:24 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Tow Vehicle
Message-ID: <20100205150737.D974418786F@autox.team.net>

List, I have changed to a heavier duty tow vehicle. The replaced 
truck is available cheap. Contact me off line for details.
Skip

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Fri Feb  5 09:11:20 2010
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:11:20 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Tow Vehicle
Message-ID: <20100205161134.570AE187917@autox.team.net>

List, I have changed to a heavier duty tow vehicle. The replaced 
truck is available cheap. Contact me off list for details.
Skip

From rbuck at xmission.com  Sat Feb  6 20:01:00 2010
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:01:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] facebook
Message-ID: <E1NdxOO-0005Ke-5e@in02.mta.xmission.com>

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=name&id=1103944527#!/profile.php?ref=name&id=1103944527

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sun Feb  7 11:01:01 2010
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:01:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Old LSR Racer - First Fire-Up After Restoration
In-Reply-To: <928746064.773831265564993075.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <295772992.777461265565661669.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

An interesting video clip of a 1905 Darracq Land Speed Racing car being fired
up for the first time after a 2.5-year restoration.



I assume this would have been classified as a 'Lakester'..??B B B B  ;o)B B 
;o)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4GCIPnjhzY



(w/sound)



I picked this up of off an extremely good thread from the H.A.M.B. entitled
"History Of Auto Racing,

1894-1944"



http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380814




I would recommend this thread to any ofB you snow-bound gear-heads with some
(serious)B time to kill.

It has some very good photographs of very early racing machinery and some
posts from some very knowledgeable people on the subject.



JG Magoo




B 

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Feb  7 14:03:36 2010
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:03:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Old LSR Racer - First Fire-Up After  Restoration
References: <295772992.777461265565661669.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8FFB68C71F424532B0A891CC4446478B@ZTxp>

Its not sure if it should burn that last gallon of oil or not . . ,.

If I was younger I could tell what the rpm is . . . .


great fun!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:01 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Old LSR Racer - First Fire-Up After Restoration


> An interesting video clip of a 1905 Darracq Land Speed Racing car being 
> fired
> up for the first time after a 2.5-year restoration.
>
>
>
> I assume this would have been classified as a 'Lakester'..??B B B B  ;o)B 
> B
> ;o)
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4GCIPnjhzY
>
>
>
> (w/sound)
>
>
>
> I picked this up of off an extremely good thread from the H.A.M.B. 
> entitled
> "History Of Auto Racing,
>
> 1894-1944"
>
>
>
> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380814
>
>
>
>
> I would recommend this thread to any ofB you snow-bound gear-heads with 
> some
> (serious)B time to kill.
>
> It has some very good photographs of very early racing machinery and some
> posts from some very knowledgeable people on the subject.
>
>
>
> JG Magoo
>
>
>
>
> B
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfevr at q.com  Sun Feb  7 21:13:51 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:13:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
Message-ID: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>

Frustrated with the annual SW Room debacle? Well here's your chance to buy a
Wendover Motel. Oh yeah, it's the one that mysteriously caught fire a few yrs.
back.

http://www.loopnet.com/property/15861705/375-E-Wendover-Blvd/

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Mon Feb  8 15:18:52 2010
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:18:52 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
In-Reply-To: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1730F591E4D04FC2AFDBC65A684804AB@ChrisHarrisPC>

Very interesting Tom...........now how many keen investors on our list ?
Salt Talks by the pool.
Chris Harris..............NZed.


> Frustrated with the annual SW Room debacle? Well here's your chance to buy 
> a
> Wendover Motel. Oh yeah, it's the one that mysteriously caught fire a few 
> yrs.
> back.
>
> http://www.loopnet.com/property/15861705/375-E-Wendover-Blvd/
>
> Tom Shannon
> Magna, Utah

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Feb  8 18:03:09 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:03:09 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
References: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>
	<1730F591E4D04FC2AFDBC65A684804AB@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <DB857B123EB24BE5A87C2E479756B5B8@edc2750afa5a84>

# Price:$1,275,000  # No. Rooms:  78.   # Average Daily Rate: $49
# Average Occupancy: 50% .......wwwrrrr .......calculate........
$16,346 per room.  That's a lot cheaper than a motorhome.  If you attend 3 
Bonneville events per year figure 20 nights @  avg $100/night = $2000.  In 
about 10 years you'd get your money back and maybe some profit from income 
that comes the rest of the year from regular room rentals.
If you want to believe the occupancy and rate stats that's $697,500 - 
$76,500  =  $621,000 gross sales/year after deducting shareholder occupancy.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Harris" <yesford at clear.net.nz>
To: "Tom Shannon" <saltfevr at q.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover


> Very interesting Tom...........now how many keen investors on our list ?
> Salt Talks by the pool. Chris Harris..............NZed.
>
>> Frustrated with the annual SW Room debacle? Well here's your chance to >> 
>> buy  a Wendover Motel.
>>  Oh yeah, it's the one that mysteriously caught fire a few  yrs. back.

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Feb  8 19:26:20 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:26:20 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
In-Reply-To: <DB857B123EB24BE5A87C2E479756B5B8@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>
	<1730F591E4D04FC2AFDBC65A684804AB@ChrisHarrisPC>,
	<DB857B123EB24BE5A87C2E479756B5B8@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <SNT126-W2275190F7C09C3EF38FEBFC9500@phx.gbl>

Thanks guys! I knew someone would crunch the numbers! LOL I'm waitin' for Jon
W. to chime in. Like Chris' idea. Salt Talks by the pool!

Ed I'm sure you still got your canoe!! You know your signature roof top item.

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> From: 23.weldon at comcast.net
> To: yesford at clear.net.nz; saltfevr at q.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:03:09 -0800
>
> # Price:$1,275,000 # No. Rooms: 78. # Average Daily Rate: $49
> # Average Occupancy: 50% .......wwwrrrr .......calculate........
> $16,346 per room. That's a lot cheaper than a motorhome. If you attend 3
> Bonneville events per year figure 20 nights @ avg $100/night = $2000. In
> about 10 years you'd get your money back and maybe some profit from income
> that comes the rest of the year from regular room rentals.
> If you want to believe the occupancy and rate stats that's $697,500 -
> $76,500 = $621,000 gross sales/year after deducting shareholder occupancy.
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Harris" <yesford at clear.net.nz>
> To: "Tom Shannon" <saltfevr at q.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
>
>
> > Very interesting Tom...........now how many keen investors on our list ?
> > Salt Talks by the pool. Chris Harris..............NZed.
> >
> >> Frustrated with the annual SW Room debacle? Well here's your chance to >>
> >> buy a Wendover Motel.
> >> Oh yeah, it's the one that mysteriously caught fire a few yrs. back.

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Mon Feb  8 19:28:50 2010
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:28:50 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
In-Reply-To: <DB857B123EB24BE5A87C2E479756B5B8@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>
	<1730F591E4D04FC2AFDBC65A684804AB@ChrisHarrisPC>
	<DB857B123EB24BE5A87C2E479756B5B8@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <5F2E076F8C7D4A7EB58DB7EBDFF67064@ChrisHarrisPC>

Ed, your too generous, vendor say's they'll discount for cash, my first 
offer would be $800,000. it's plainly obvious they want out.
Chris H.

Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover

> # Price:$1,275,000  # No. Rooms:  78.   # Average Daily Rate: $49
> # Average Occupancy: 50% .......wwwrrrr .......calculate........
> $16,346 per room.  That's a lot cheaper than a motorhome.  If you attend 3 
> Bonneville events per year figure 20 nights @  avg $100/night = $2000.  In 
> about 10 years you'd get your money back and maybe some profit from income 
> that comes the rest of the year from regular room rentals.
> If you want to believe the occupancy and rate stats that's $697,500 - 
> $76,500  =  $621,000 gross sales/year after deducting shareholder 
> occupancy.
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chris Harris" <yesford at clear.net.nz>
> To: "Tom Shannon" <saltfevr at q.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
>
>
>> Very interesting Tom...........now how many keen investors on our list ?
>> Salt Talks by the pool. Chris Harris..............NZed.
>>
>>> Frustrated with the annual SW Room debacle? Well here's your chance to 
>>>  >> buy  a Wendover Motel.
>>>  Oh yeah, it's the one that mysteriously caught fire a few  yrs. back.

From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Feb  8 19:41:50 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon,  8 Feb 2010 19:41:50 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Team.Net Slowness
Message-ID: <20100209024150.8CC7C2E02F@bradakis.com>

Currently there is some issue with the main Team.Net
mail server.  Messages come in to the server, get handed
off to the mailing list manager and then for some as yet
unknown reason don't get sent out for roughly two hours,
maybe two and a half.  Ah, the wonders of modern technology.

I'm looking into it, hopefully will have the situation
improved soon.  That's why I get paid the big bucks here!


mjb.

From rbuck at xmission.com  Mon Feb  8 22:02:34 2010
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:02:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
In-Reply-To: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E1NeiF8-0004bD-3O@in01.mta.xmission.com>

Hmmm....that pool looks pretty much like the one shown here from 2004:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/lsr/bsf2004/wfi/20041011/20041011_022r8_jpg.html

If someone with venture capital were to provide some funding, I'd 
give it same serious thought.  But then I'm hardly ever serious about 
anything.  :)

RtR



At 09:13 PM 2/7/2010, Tom Shannon wrote:
>Frustrated with the annual SW Room debacle? Well here's your chance to buy a
>Wendover Motel. Oh yeah, it's the one that mysteriously caught fire a few yrs.
>back.
>
>http://www.loopnet.com/property/15861705/375-E-Wendover-Blvd/
>
>Tom Shannon
>Magna, Utah
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as rbuck at xmission.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From rbuck at xmission.com  Mon Feb  8 22:08:11 2010
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:08:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
In-Reply-To: <5F2E076F8C7D4A7EB58DB7EBDFF67064@ChrisHarrisPC>
References: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>
	<1730F591E4D04FC2AFDBC65A684804AB@ChrisHarrisPC>
	<DB857B123EB24BE5A87C2E479756B5B8@edc2750afa5a84>
	<5F2E076F8C7D4A7EB58DB7EBDFF67064@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <E1NeiKZ-0004pS-9I@in02.mta.xmission.com>

Hmmm...ya need a manager for the place?  :)  A friend and I are 
thinkin about relocating to the Wendover area with some manufacturing 
ideas in mind.  This might be a way to facilitate that.  Ya think 
they'd mind a speed parts production facility behind the place?

"Ya never know unless ya try."

RtR



At 07:28 PM 2/8/2010, Chris Harris wrote:
>Ed, your too generous, vendor say's they'll discount for cash, my 
>first offer would be $800,000. it's plainly obvious they want out.
>Chris H.
>
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
>
>># Price:$1,275,000  # No. Rooms:  78.   # Average Daily Rate: $49
>># Average Occupancy: 50% .......wwwrrrr .......calculate........
>>$16,346 per room.  That's a lot cheaper than a motorhome.  If you 
>>attend 3 Bonneville events per year figure 20 nights @  avg 
>>$100/night = $2000.  In about 10 years you'd get your money back 
>>and maybe some profit from income that comes the rest of the year 
>>from regular room rentals.
>>If you want to believe the occupancy and rate stats that's $697,500 
>>- $76,500  =  $621,000 gross sales/year after deducting shareholder occupancy.
>>Ed Weldon
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Harris" <yesford at clear.net.nz>
>>To: "Tom Shannon" <saltfevr at q.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:18 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
>>
>>
>>>Very interesting Tom...........now how many keen investors on our list ?
>>>Salt Talks by the pool. Chris Harris..............NZed.
>>>
>>>>Frustrated with the annual SW Room debacle? Well here's your 
>>>>chance to  >> buy  a Wendover Motel.
>>>>  Oh yeah, it's the one that mysteriously caught fire a few  yrs. back.
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as rbuck at xmission.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From rbuck at xmission.com  Mon Feb  8 22:35:41 2010
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:35:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <D9884FA7-6994-44C0-8876-0E4DFCD1F297@comcast.net>
References: <4B6A1E49.2030203@mayfco.com>
	<F891D20E08FC4A7AB79DFBF83F9569C8@edc2750afa5a84>
	<4B6A6FCA.2070502@bradakis.com>
	<D9884FA7-6994-44C0-8876-0E4DFCD1F297@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <E1NeilB-0006cc-Im@in01.mta.xmission.com>

Hey...6000 dead sheep don't make a case for nerve agent use at Dugway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dugway_sheep_incident

The firing/bombing range north of I-80 is more worrisome to me than 
the Tooele/Dugway storage/destruction of some very lethal 
chemical/biological chemicals.  So far there have been zero 
cataclysms at the destruction facility...but one never know, do one? 
(Quote attributed to Fats Waller.)

Scary thing is that my mother was a "Downwinder" and died at the age 
of 40 due to Myelomas that metastasized through out her entire 
body.  I've been wondering what mutated genes she passed on to me and 
to my sisters.  There are some common traits and physical issues that 
could be the results of "birth defects" (genetic changes caused by 
the radiation and passed on to her children.)

All in all. I'm just waiting for the mother ship to pick me up and 
take me home to my home galaxy.  In the meantime, I gotta deal with 
this infested planet...but maybe I'll spend more time near the 
Extraterrestial highway:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/temp/Extraterrestial-highway.jpg and see 
if I can hitch a ride with a benevolent "outworldly" race of folks 
who come to visit.  Remember The Byrd's song, "Hey Mr. 
Spaceman?"  Maybe if I hang out there long enough "Mr. Spaceman" will 
take me along for a ride.,

RtR


At 01:49 AM 2/4/2010, Wester Potter wrote:
>Choose between Dugway Proving Grounds and the chemical testing there as well
>as it being used as a firing range for the Utah National Guard and the Utah
>Test and Training Range for Hill AFB on the north side of I-80 with access at
>milepost 61 (for authorized vehicles only), there's a lot of Utah that has
>been trashed by the mililtary.  Area 51 is just less available for travelers.
>The Utah sites are more dangerous because of the unexploded munitions.
>
>Wes
>
>On Feb 3, 2010, at 11:57 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>
> > 23weldon wrote:
> >> 3.  The one we race on, the one we drive by and the places you best not go
>(due to the presence of alien life forms).
> >
> > I often tell people that in my opinion the Department of Defense started
>the
> > rumors about Area 51 to draw attention away from Dugway.
> >
> >
> > mjb.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as rbuck at xmission.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Feb  8 23:21:54 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon,  8 Feb 2010 23:21:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Team.Net Slowness
Message-ID: <20100209062154.3FBFD2E059@bradakis.com>

Currently there is some issue with the main Team.Net
mail server.  Messages come in to the server, get handed
off to the mailing list manager and then for some as yet
unknown reason don't get sent out for roughly two hours,
maybe two and a half.  Ah, the wonders of modern technology.

I'm looking into it, hopefully will have the situation
improved soon.  That's why I get paid the big bucks here!


mjb.

From mark at bradakis.com  Tue Feb  9 00:53:11 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:53:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
In-Reply-To: <5F2E076F8C7D4A7EB58DB7EBDFF67064@ChrisHarrisPC>
References: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>
	<1730F591E4D04FC2AFDBC65A684804AB@ChrisHarrisPC>
	<DB857B123EB24BE5A87C2E479756B5B8@edc2750afa5a84>
	<5F2E076F8C7D4A7EB58DB7EBDFF67064@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <4B711467.9040805@bradakis.com>

>>> Very interesting Tom...........now how many keen investors on our 
>>> list ?

I haven't checked behind the sofa cushions for loose change,  I might be
interested ;-)  As I recall this place was always the last to fill up on 
busy
weekends.  It might need a bit of tidying up.


mjb.

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Feb  9 06:07:23 2010
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 8:07:23 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <E1NeilB-0006cc-Im@in01.mta.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <20100209080723.9J2Z9.564829.imail@fed1rmwml40>

Ray,  I don't see why that wouldn't work out---after all even Howard Hughes got a ride one night while hanging out beside a desereted highway in a remote deseret location!!!!!!!!!!
> 
 I gotta deal with 
> this infested planet...but maybe I'll spend more time near the 
> Extraterrestial highway:
> http://www.chevyasylum.com/temp/Extraterrestial-highway.jpg and see 
> if I can hitch a ride with a benevolent "outworldly" race of folks 
> who come to visit.  Remember The Byrd's song, "Hey Mr. 
> Spaceman?"  Maybe if I hang out there long enough "Mr. Spaceman" will 
> take me along for a ride.,
> 
> RtR

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Tue Feb  9 06:41:34 2010
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:41:34 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
In-Reply-To: <SNT126-W2275190F7C09C3EF38FEBFC9500@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>
	<1730F591E4D04FC2AFDBC65A684804AB@ChrisHarrisPC>,
	<DB857B123EB24BE5A87C2E479756B5B8@edc2750afa5a84>
	<SNT126-W2275190F7C09C3EF38FEBFC9500@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4F76984F-EAA1-4591-896B-44CB45DB0C2F@nancyandjon.org>

On Feb 8, 2010, at 9:26 PM, Tom Shannon wrote:

Thanks guys! I knew someone would crunch the numbers! LOL I'm waitin' for Jon
W. to chime in. Like Chris' idea. Salt Talks by the pool!

Ed I'm sure you still got your canoe!! You know your signature roof top item.

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah



Yeah, I've heard from a number of you "off-list".  And I thought you had more
faith in my sense of common sense.  I ran the numbers through my head a few
times and came up with this - n - that, but don't hold your breath for Nancy
and me to make the first move.

Things that'd be vital:  First of all, keep the long-term renters.  You'll
need revenue year-round.  If you've got worries about them staying honest, up
to date, and clean rooms -- change the rules to "Rent is due weekly and will
be collected by our resident manager visiting your rental unit each Friday."
That way your person is in each unit weekly -- reduces the nmber of meth lans
that'll be run.

Second, have some maximum for the number of long-term rentals -- be available
for overnighters during the no-racing season.  And write the long-term rental
contracts such that they'll have to move out by 1 August.

Third -- unh, before you use that $16k++/room number -- add in money for
maintenance, taxes, utilities, and so on.  Then it's time to come up with your
monthly outgo -- what'll it take to make the monthly payments?  That's the big
number you'll have to hit, the "nut you'll have to crack", every month.  Is
the number such that in August and September you can put bucks into the bank
account - so you'll have enough to make the monthly payments in February?

Unh, no thanks, but it's sure fun to dream, isn't it?

      Jon Wennerberg
Tall guy with moustache
and a pair of 2 Club hats

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Feb  9 08:55:08 2010
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:55:08 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
Message-ID: <W3084917531161611265730908@webmail28>

Jon, you could always make it a condo complex ;-)
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wennerberg [mailto:jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 06:41 AM
To: 'Tom Shannon'
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover

On Feb 8, 2010, at 9:26 PM, Tom Shannon wrote: Thanks guys! I knew someone
would crunch the numbers! LOL I'm waitin' for Jon W. to chime in. Like Chris'
idea. Salt Talks by the pool! Ed I'm sure you still got your canoe!! You know
your signature roof top item. Tom Shannon Magna, Utah Yeah, I've heard from a
number of you "off-list". And I thought you had more faith in my sense of
common sense. I ran the numbers through my head a few times and came up with
this - n - that, but don't hold your breath for Nancy and me to make the first
move. Things that'd be vital: First of all, keep the long-term renters. You'll
need revenue year-round. If you've got worries about them staying honest, up
to date, and clean rooms -- change the rules to "Rent is due weekly and will
be collected by our resident manager visiting your rental unit each Friday."
That way your person is in each unit weekly -- reduces the nmber of meth lans
that'll be run. Second, have some maximum for the number of long-term rentals
-- be available for overnighters during the no-racing season. And write the
long-term rental contracts such that they'll have to move out by 1 August.
Third -- unh, before you use that $16k++/room number -- add in money for
maintenance, taxes, utilities, and so on. Then it's time to come up with your
monthly outgo -- what'll it take to make the monthly payments? That's the big
number you'll have to hit, the "nut you'll have to crack", every month. Is the
number such that in August and September you can put bucks into the bank
account - so you'll have enough to make the monthly payments in February? Unh,
no thanks, but it's sure fun to dream, isn't it? Jon Wennerberg Tall guy with
moustache and a pair of 2 Club hats

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Tue Feb  9 08:58:17 2010
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:58:17 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
In-Reply-To: <W3084917531161611265730908@webmail28>
References: <W3084917531161611265730908@webmail28>
Message-ID: <533E1760-851E-4D38-A2A6-6907D2322F4F@nancyandjon.org>

On Feb 9, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:

> Jon, you could always make it a condom complex  ;-)
> Ed

Ed, what do I need with a bunch of rubbers?

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Feb  9 09:18:27 2010
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:18:27 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
Message-ID: <W3221716727174021265732307@webmail33>

CONDO! Must ahve been a freaudian slip........ 
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wennerberg [mailto:jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 08:58 AM
To: 'Ed Van Scoy'
Cc: 'Tom Shannon', land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover


On Feb 9, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:

Jon, you could always make it a condom complex ;-)
Ed


Ed, what do I need with a bunch of rubbers?

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Feb  9 09:36:10 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:36:10 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..
Message-ID: <4B718EFA.8080600@mayfco.com>

I sent  my M&R seat belts back to M&R for recertification. I called 
first and asked how long to have that done plus a bit of lengthening on 
the shoulder strap pulls.  I was told 3 weeks. Great I said.... so I 
immediately shipped them and they arrived and were signed for on the 
14th of January. I called last week and they were going to get back with 
me....call or email... nothing, so I called again today.... Wow, now I 
need to add another 2 weeks before they are recertified and then another 
week to ship them to me..  They seem to be completely unreliable and I 
certainly won't ever never be buying from them again.   YMMV

mayf

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Tue Feb  9 09:48:50 2010
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:48:50 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Instant lumpy cam and open headers!
References: <27D0451B03054CC6A0A57CA7E346756B@JormaLankinePC>
Message-ID: <7D160147-CC50-4C3C-9186-BD9EE7A358B0@nancyandjon.org>

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9XAC-BvUyo

From benn at sonic.net  Tue Feb  9 10:20:18 2010
From: benn at sonic.net (Benn)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:20:18 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
References: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl><1730F591E4D04FC2AFDBC65A684804AB@ChrisHarrisPC>,
	<DB857B123EB24BE5A87C2E479756B5B8@edc2750afa5a84><SNT126-W2275190F7C09C3EF38FEBFC9500@phx.gbl>
	<4F76984F-EAA1-4591-896B-44CB45DB0C2F@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <4CD6BB8A2170487F9D5B2BD9A0CBA829@BennsDesktop>

Hmm, condos, at, say $25K apiece?  Annual association dues of $1K could 
cover a resident manager for those who wanted to rent out their units, and 
possibly cover commons maintenance as well.  Each unit covers their own 
utilities and taxes.
Benn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Wennerberg" <jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org>
To: "Tom Shannon" <saltfevr at q.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover


> On Feb 8, 2010, at 9:26 PM, Tom Shannon wrote:
>
> Thanks guys! I knew someone would crunch the numbers! LOL I'm waitin' for 
> Jon
> W. to chime in. Like Chris' idea. Salt Talks by the pool!
>
> Ed I'm sure you still got your canoe!! You know your signature roof top 
> item.
>
> Tom Shannon
> Magna, Utah
>
>
>
> Yeah, I've heard from a number of you "off-list".  And I thought you had 
> more
> faith in my sense of common sense.  I ran the numbers through my head a 
> few
> times and came up with this - n - that, but don't hold your breath for 
> Nancy
> and me to make the first move.
>
> Things that'd be vital:  First of all, keep the long-term renters.  You'll
> need revenue year-round.  If you've got worries about them staying honest, 
> up
> to date, and clean rooms -- change the rules to "Rent is due weekly and 
> will
> be collected by our resident manager visiting your rental unit each 
> Friday."
> That way your person is in each unit weekly -- reduces the nmber of meth 
> lans
> that'll be run.
>
> Second, have some maximum for the number of long-term rentals -- be 
> available
> for overnighters during the no-racing season.  And write the long-term 
> rental
> contracts such that they'll have to move out by 1 August.
>
> Third -- unh, before you use that $16k++/room number -- add in money for
> maintenance, taxes, utilities, and so on.  Then it's time to come up with 
> your
> monthly outgo -- what'll it take to make the monthly payments?  That's the 
> big
> number you'll have to hit, the "nut you'll have to crack", every month. 
> Is
> the number such that in August and September you can put bucks into the 
> bank
> account - so you'll have enough to make the monthly payments in February?
>
> Unh, no thanks, but it's sure fun to dream, isn't it?
>
>      Jon Wennerberg
> Tall guy with moustache
> and a pair of 2 Club hats
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as benn at sonic.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Feb  9 14:18:15 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:18:15 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..
Message-ID: <12306444.1265750296132.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I've never sent any back, I asked different manufacturers at different times and the cost of rewebbing was ALWAYS more than buying a new set from some one like Summitt, Jegs. Herbert, etc. Sold most of the outdated ones at swap meets. 



>
>I sent  my M&R seat belts back to M&R for recertification. I called 
>first and asked how long to have that done plus a bit of lengthening on 
>the shoulder strap pulls.  I was told 3 weeks. Great I said.... so I 
>immediately shipped them and they arrived and were signed for on the 
>14th of January. I called last week and they were going to get back with 
>me....call or email... nothing, so I called again today.... Wow, now I 
>need to add another 2 weeks before they are recertified and then another 
>week to ship them to me..  They seem to be completely unreliable and I 
>certainly won't ever never be buying from them again.   YMMV
>
>mayf
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as gmc6power at earthlink.net
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Feb  9 15:28:54 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:28:54 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..
In-Reply-To: <12306444.1265750296132.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <12306444.1265750296132.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4B71E1A6.20803@mayfco.com>

The cost for recert was only 75 bucks.  I don't know where to buy new 
ones for that price aand meet spec. 

mayf
James Tone wrote:

>I've never sent any back, I asked different manufacturers at different times and the cost of rewebbing was ALWAYS more than buying a new set from some one like Summitt, Jegs. Herbert, etc. Sold most of the outdated ones at swap meets. 
>
>
>
>  
>
>>I sent  my M&R seat belts back to M&R for recertification. I called 
>>first and asked how long to have that done plus a bit of lengthening on 
>>the shoulder strap pulls.  I was told 3 weeks. Great I said.... so I 
>>immediately shipped them and they arrived and were signed for on the 
>>14th of January. I called last week and they were going to get back with 
>>me....call or email... nothing, so I called again today.... Wow, now I 
>>need to add another 2 weeks before they are recertified and then another 
>>week to ship them to me..  They seem to be completely unreliable and I 
>>certainly won't ever never be buying from them again.   YMMV
>>
>>mayf
>>_______________________________________________
>>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>You are subscribed as gmc6power at earthlink.net
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Tue Feb  9 15:35:28 2010
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:35:28 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Toyota recall.
Message-ID: <493A21C020D8475DB0FA09FB18E9073B@ChrisHarrisPC>

While your Prius is in the shop, try this gadget while driving your wife's 
'shopping basket'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9XAC-BvUyo&feature=fvhl

Chris H................NZed. 

From dlodom at charter.net  Tue Feb  9 15:49:55 2010
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:49:55 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..
References: <4B718EFA.8080600@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <020a01caa9da$3413adb0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Mayf, Check with D.J. Safety ( in the rule book). Just get new ones. They 
are not that much money and DJ was at the salt to take care of anything that 
was a problem. He has treated me right every time.
Big ditch Doug    starting to dry out

Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..


>I sent  my M&R seat belts back to M&R for recertification. I called first 
>and asked how long to have that done plus a bit of lengthening on the 
>shoulder strap pulls.  I was told 3 weeks. Great I said.... so I 
>immediately shipped them and they arrived and were signed for on the 14th 
>of January. I called last week and they were going to get back with 
>me....call or email... nothing, so I called again today.... Wow, now I need 
>to add another 2 weeks before they are recertified and then another week to 
>ship them to me..  They seem to be completely unreliable and I certainly 
>won't ever never be buying from them again.   YMMV
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Tue Feb  9 16:41:02 2010
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:41:02 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..
In-Reply-To: <020a01caa9da$3413adb0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
References: <4B718EFA.8080600@mayfco.com>
	<020a01caa9da$3413adb0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20D863A96@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

I had my DJ's Re-webbed last year, $50 plus shipping, one week.

Mike M.
-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Odom
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 5:50 PM
To: drmayf at mayfco.com; LSR
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..

Mayf, Check with D.J. Safety ( in the rule book). Just get new ones.
They
are not that much money and DJ was at the salt to take care of anything
that
was a problem. He has treated me right every time.
Big ditch Doug    starting to dry out

Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..


>I sent  my M&R seat belts back to M&R for recertification. I called
first
>and asked how long to have that done plus a bit of lengthening on the
>shoulder strap pulls.  I was told 3 weeks. Great I said.... so I
>immediately shipped them and they arrived and were signed for on the
14th
>of January. I called last week and they were going to get back with
>me....call or email... nothing, so I called again today.... Wow, now I
need
>to add another 2 weeks before they are recertified and then another
week to
>ship them to me..  They seem to be completely unreliable and I
certainly
>won't ever never be buying from them again.   YMMV
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Tue Feb  9 16:58:16 2010
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:58:16 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..
Message-ID: <198c8.147e05b7.38a35098@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/9/2010 6:26:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
dlodom at charter.net writes:

Mayf,  Check with D.J. Safety ( in the rule book). Just get new ones. They 
are  not that much money and DJ was at the salt to take care of anything 
that  
was a problem. He has treated me right every time.
Big ditch Doug   starting to dry out

Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad  Day..


Or, Joe Timney at Delaware Chassis Works. DCW sells M&R, among many  
quality parts, and we all know he stands behind anything he produces. 
Like Doug suggested, remember to always consider patronizing the guys in  
the books First. 
Bob W 

From jdincau at qnet.com  Tue Feb  9 18:40:53 2010
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:40:53 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..
In-Reply-To: <4B71E1A6.20803@mayfco.com>
References: <12306444.1265750296132.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4B71E1A6.20803@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <F179349D9E9D4BE1A8454A82E6CBEBA0@denpc>

Cost to re web at JD safety was similar and they did it while we went to 
lunch.


> The cost for recert was only 75 bucks.  I don't know where to buy new ones 
> for that price aand meet spec.
> mayf

From saltfevr at q.com  Tue Feb  9 19:27:25 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:27:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
In-Reply-To: <4B711467.9040805@bradakis.com>
References: <SNT126-W58D2E75F32EFCCDEA4F1EAC9510@phx.gbl>,
	<1730F591E4D04FC2AFDBC65A684804AB@ChrisHarrisPC>,
	<DB857B123EB24BE5A87C2E479756B5B8@edc2750afa5a84>,
	<5F2E076F8C7D4A7EB58DB7EBDFF67064@ChrisHarrisPC>,
	<4B711467.9040805@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <SNT126-W279B268DC043F9E6DE05C1C94F0@phx.gbl>

Hey Mark;



Are you sure you're not mixing the Bonneville Inn with the (World's Fastest
Indian) our beloved Western Ridge?? LOL

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 00:53:11 -0700
> From: mark at bradakis.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bonneville Inn For Sale in Wendover
>
> >>> Very interesting Tom...........now how many keen investors on our
> >>> list ?
>
> I haven't checked behind the sofa cushions for loose change, I might be
> interested ;-) As I recall this place was always the last to fill up on
> busy
> weekends. It might need a bit of tidying up.
>
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Feb  9 19:42:28 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:42:28 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] M&R Seat Belt Bad Day..
References: <12306444.1265750296132.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4B71E1A6.20803@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <CF5519319C3447CFAD05A6EB05DBE2A7@mydf7618c59bbf>

As I remember the last set I bought from G-Force was $59 meeting SFI spec 
16-1 as directed by our rule book. I looked them up in Summit and they are 
presantly $69.95 for the style I use.....To each his own



> The cost for recert was only 75 bucks.  I don't know where to buy new ones 
> for that price aand meet spec.
> mayf
> James Tone wrote:
>
>>I've never sent any back, I asked different manufacturers at different 
>>times and the cost of rewebbing was ALWAYS more than buying a new set from 
>>some one like Summitt, Jegs. Herbert, etc. Sold most of the outdated ones 
>>at swap meets.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Feb 15 03:57:44 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:57:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Ultimate Cobra
Message-ID: <0662B466-4BC3-4E60-BD04-2FE707FAE0D4@comcast.net>

Check out the Kirkham's Motorsports open house post under World of Speed
specific stuff at Landracing.com and get the link to the car they built for
the president of Oracle computer software.

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Mon Feb 15 19:04:56 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:04:56 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Water jet cutter
Message-ID: <F97E38504B4146AC8C99371D8261ADD8@john>

Stopped in to see my friend Bob today . He showed me some things he's made
recently with his water jet cutter . It makes ready to tap holes in 1/2"
aluminum and cuts hard material up to rockwell 64C . . It has 2 hydraulically
driven pistons that step way down in diameter to pump the water . The water
passes through a tiny hole in a ruby jet at supersonic speed into a chamber
filled with abrasive and out another hole to do the cutting . The work piece
is slightly under the surface of a water tank with 3 ft of water below to
decelerate the abrasive . He keeps asking what  he can make for my streamliner
with it . I wouldn't be surprised if it could make a  crankshaft ready to
grind .

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon Feb 15 19:43:16 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:43:16 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings
Message-ID: <000001caaeb1$d0bcd0c0$72367240$@net>

Has anybody replaced their a-arm bushings with solid metal bushings, reamed
with very little clearance? How about the soft rubber bushing in back on the
control arms? I'm not talking about replacing with high durometer synthetics
but unforgiving solid metal.  Good or bad idea?   TIA :-)

From dlodom at charter.net  Mon Feb 15 20:12:57 2010
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:12:57 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings
References: <000001caaeb1$d0bcd0c0$72367240$@net>
Message-ID: <026401caaeb5$f1981530$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

What kind of car are we dealing with? What are we trying to accomplish?

Doug in big ditch
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 6:43 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings


> Has anybody replaced their a-arm bushings with solid metal bushings, 
> reamed
> with very little clearance? How about the soft rubber bushing in back on 
> the
> control arms? I'm not talking about replacing with high durometer 
> synthetics
> but unforgiving solid metal.  Good or bad idea?   TIA :-)
> _______________________________________________

From benn at sonic.net  Mon Feb 15 21:22:01 2010
From: benn at sonic.net (Benn)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:22:01 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings
References: <000001caaeb1$d0bcd0c0$72367240$@net>
Message-ID: <AE75EEAB53A54E54BF8FE6948C48D96B@BennsDesktop>

A million years ago I used steel bushings with zerks on the upper A-arms of 
my roadracing 'vette (the non-loaded arms; i.e., the ones that didn't carry 
the spring load, FWIW).  Worked fine, no issues.   I would think on a 
vehicle that you don't really care about ride and doesn't get a lot of miles 
on it that solid steel would work fine.
Benn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 6:43 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings


> Has anybody replaced their a-arm bushings with solid metal bushings, 
> reamed
> with very little clearance? How about the soft rubber bushing in back on 
> the
> control arms? I'm not talking about replacing with high durometer 
> synthetics
> but unforgiving solid metal.  Good or bad idea?   TIA :-)
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as benn at sonic.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon Feb 15 23:33:49 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:33:49 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings
In-Reply-To: <026401caaeb5$f1981530$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
References: <000001caaeb1$d0bcd0c0$72367240$@net>
	<026401caaeb5$f1981530$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <000f01caaed2$0004a4f0$000deed0$@net>

Opps! I should have mentioned the application. Thanks to all who jumped on
this right away. I got a few great off-list comments but am replying back to
the list you will all see the same information. 

The car is a 75 Chevy Monza for LSR,  race only, and never will be
streetable. My thoughts were to remove any slop in the suspension to prevent
''hunting'' at speed. However, I did talk to a famous SoCal racer a year ago
and he preferred a "loose" front end. We were discussion the benefits of a
rack and pinion steering set-up and he said he would NOT want the precision
or positive responsiveness at high speed. (He has both red and blue hats). 

Since I have to rebuild the front end anyway I was thinking of machining
some aluminum bushings to replace the rubber ones in the a-frame. I am
welding up the sheet metal seams in the engine bay to add stiffness and was
wondering about those a-arms. Guys replace the OEM stamped steel with
tubular a-arms, supposedly to add stiffness, strength, and lightness.

From kturk at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 16 03:03:18 2010
From: kturk at adelphia.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:03:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings
References: <000001caaeb1$d0bcd0c0$72367240$@net>
	<026401caaeb5$f1981530$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <01F29F31FA2E4682B95DF29FC158279C@keithhrijwmm4p>

Yes I've replaced all my front bushings with Global west stuff.... it's not 
solid ... but Aluminum and Delron ( hard ass Teflon )....  it doesn't rust 
and it doesn't give.. when I set up the front end it stays where I set it... 
good junk

I wouldn't recommend anything that has the ability to rust... cause if it 
can.... it will

Keith 

From race427 at aol.com  Tue Feb 16 08:46:49 2010
From: race427 at aol.com (race427 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:46:49 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings
In-Reply-To: <001d01caaed5$4538ae10$cfaa0a30$@net>
References: <001d01caaed5$4538ae10$cfaa0a30$@net>
Message-ID: <8CC7D3662C3CEDE-7D70-57F1@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>

GM Kirk,

Since this is for a race car only then I would say give it a try.
Solid A arm bushings were a common drag strip mod back in the 60's and
70's.  I would think that the suspension should feel and act more
responsive.  But, since this is land speed racing you would not have to
worry about any cornering.  As already mentioned I too would have
concerns about an 'over reactive' front suspension and / or steering.
Sort of riding a bicycle with a collision bent fork,  too much negative
caster.  You could always compensate for too loose steering with more
positive caster.    Chevy Monza, an interesting car, although I always
preferred the Vega myself.    Could never get over the fact that we had
to raise the V8 engine in order to replace one spark plug !!   Not
refined engineering?  LOL  GM, Ford and Chrysler had their opportunity
to give the Japanese auto industry and good fight in the 70's and they
blew it.   Sad to say, but I do not think we will ever come back to
what we once were.  :(   Different times, different economics and
environmental issues.  It would be great to see us get back to what we
were 40 yrs ago.

    Always wonder what the body style of a Honda Insight stuffed with a
high HP engine would do at Bonneville.   Prius also, but not as a
Hybrid.   Just wonder how aero-dynamic their body styles truly are?

   Good luck,  anxious to hear how your modifications work out.

  Thanks,

    Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Kirkwood <saltfever at comcast.net>
To: land-speed <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:43 pm
Subject: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings

The rubber A arm bushing are suppose to absorb vibration and shock,
they are also difficult to move once tightened in their proper rest
position.  One would think that solid steel ' bearing assemblies' would
transfer an aweful huge amount of road noise, vibration and road shock.
  Just a thought, remembering my days when working for a local Pontiac
dealership in the Bronx.

   Tony G

-----Original Message-----
From: Kirkwood <saltfever at comcast.net>
To: land-speed <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:43 pm
Subject: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings

Has anybody replaced their a-arm bushings with solid metal bushings,
reamed
with very little clearance? How about the soft rubber bushing in back
on the
control arms? I'm not talking about replacing with high durometer
synthetics
but unforgiving solid metal.  Good or bad idea?   TIA :-)
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as race427 at aol.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Feb 16 09:32:51 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:32:51 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] [not Land-speed]
References: <001d01caaed5$4538ae10$cfaa0a30$@net>
	<8CC7D3662C3CEDE-7D70-57F1@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84>

I think Toyota is singing a some like that this year. The Japanese have 
never been strong in software and this particular weakness has bitten out of 
their automakers, at least Toyota, a big nasty chunk.  They sure got away 
with blaming the floormats for a long time.
Toyota (and I'm sure other auto manufacturers) is learning what Microsoft is 
struggling with.  Systems so complex that they area beyond the ability of 
humans to completely control.  A software crash in your PC is a nuisance.  A 
software crash in your automobile is a bit more of an inconvenience.
I wonder how long it will be before some government requires that all cars 
sold must have a big red emergency stop button (like you see on lots of 
industrial machinery) right in front of the driver.

Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <race427 at aol.com>
To: <saltfever at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings


> ........    Sad to say, but I do not think we will ever come back to
> what we once were. 

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 16 10:11:52 2010
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:11:52 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] [not Land-speed]
Message-ID: <31740155.1266340312591.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

IMO a cable should be mandated. It may not be any better but for my peace of mind I like one. My diesel is wire and I don't feel all that warm and fuzzy. I really do like drive by wire.


-----Original Message-----
>From: 23weldon <23.weldon at comcast.net>
>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 8:32 AM
>To: saltfever at comcast.net, land-speed at autox.team.net, race427 at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] [not Land-speed]
>
>I think Toyota is singing a some like that this year. The Japanese have 
>never been strong in software and this particular weakness has bitten out of 
>their automakers, at least Toyota, a big nasty chunk.  They sure got away 
>with blaming the floormats for a long time.
>Toyota (and I'm sure other auto manufacturers) is learning what Microsoft is 
>struggling with.  Systems so complex that they area beyond the ability of 
>humans to completely control.  A software crash in your PC is a nuisance.  A 
>software crash in your automobile is a bit more of an inconvenience.
>I wonder how long it will be before some government requires that all cars 
>sold must have a big red emergency stop button (like you see on lots of 
>industrial machinery) right in front of the driver.
>
>Ed Weldon
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <race427 at aol.com>
>To: <saltfever at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:46 AM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings
>
>
>> ........    Sad to say, but I do not think we will ever come back to
>> what we once were. 
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as gmc6power at earthlink.net
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From race427 at aol.com  Tue Feb 16 10:33:41 2010
From: race427 at aol.com (race427 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:33:41 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics
In-Reply-To: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <8CC7D45510040FA-5028-A75@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>

Ed,

    The entire automotive industry among others is totally governed by
electronics.  Electronic parts are less expensive to manufacture than
mechanical parts. Electronic stuff does not wear out, it burns out or
simply fails.   Much more difficult to diagnose, requires specialized
tools and equipment, much smarter people to do the work.  Call them
mechanics or technicians, it does not matter, the bottom line is they
must be smarter to survive in today's automotive world. They must also
make a huge investment in tools and equipment.    Cars, trucks are no
longer easy to work on.  But, we already know this.  :)   I teach
automotive tech to high school kids,  most do not see the big picture.
Still too young and immature.   Maybe when they get older and have to
survive in the real world.

  Tony




-----Original Message-----
From: 23weldon <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: saltfever at comcast.net; land-speed at autox.team.net; race427 at aol.com
Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:32 am
Subject: Re: [not Land-speed]

I think Toyota is singing a some like that this year. The Japanese have
never been strong in software and this particular weakness has bitten
out of
their automakers, at least Toyota, a big nasty chunk.  They sure got
away
with blaming the floormats for a long time.
Toyota (and I'm sure other auto manufacturers) is learning what
Microsoft is
struggling with.  Systems so complex that they area beyond the ability
of
humans to completely control.  A software crash in your PC is a
nuisance.  A
software crash in your automobile is a bit more of an inconvenience.
I wonder how long it will be before some government requires that all
cars
sold must have a big red emergency stop button (like you see on lots of
industrial machinery) right in front of the driver.

Ed Weldon

----- Original Message -----
From: <race427 at aol.com>
To: <saltfever at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings


> ........    Sad to say, but I do not think we will ever come back to
> what we once were.

From race427 at aol.com  Tue Feb 16 10:46:16 2010
From: race427 at aol.com (race427 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:46:16 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage
In-Reply-To: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <8CC7D4712E59AFA-5028-EAF@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>

Ed,

     You would think with all of the advancements in electronics and
engine design, vehicles would be getting better fuel mileage.  The
price of oil keeps going up and up and the fuel mileage remains the
same.   Our economy is in a shambles because of the oil prices.  Not
one manufacturer can come out with a car which gives excellent fuel
economy 40 + mpg.   Not talking Hybrids.  VW does it with the TDI, but
I have not heard good things about this little diesel.  Something is
wrong somewhere.   Guess I am not smart enough to see it.  :(    All I
know, is it costs a small fortune to travel anywhere today by car.
Between the price of fuel and tolls here in the Northeast, they are
robbing us.   What will happen if gas goes to $ 5.00 gallon and stays
there?    Arggggggh

     Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: 23weldon <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: saltfever at comcast.net; land-speed at autox.team.net; race427 at aol.com
Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:32 am
Subject: Re: [not Land-speed]

I think Toyota is singing a some like that this year. The Japanese have
never been strong in software and this particular weakness has bitten
out of
their automakers, at least Toyota, a big nasty chunk.  They sure got
away
with blaming the floormats for a long time.
Toyota (and I'm sure other auto manufacturers) is learning what
Microsoft is
struggling with.  Systems so complex that they area beyond the ability
of
humans to completely control.  A software crash in your PC is a
nuisance.  A
software crash in your automobile is a bit more of an inconvenience.
I wonder how long it will be before some government requires that all
cars
sold must have a big red emergency stop button (like you see on lots of
industrial machinery) right in front of the driver.

Ed Weldon

----- Original Message -----
From: <race427 at aol.com>
To: <saltfever at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings


> ........    Sad to say, but I do not think we will ever come back to
> what we once were.

From mike_lackey at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 12:18:24 2010
From: mike_lackey at yahoo.com (Mike Lackey)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:18:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] [not Land-speed]
In-Reply-To: <31740155.1266340312591.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <31740155.1266340312591.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <248940.41124.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I greatly prefer cables too.  

Drive by wire allows for the computer to
behave in ways that the driver does not want.  I have a Saturn Vue  for my
wife with drive by wire.  Snapping the throttle shut between shifts increases
emissions slightly, so they decided to slowly shut the throttle instead when
you let off between shifts.  This little quirk drives me nuts every time I
drive it.  

It's a great little mini-SUV otherwise and the wife doesn't seem
to mind the throttle

Mike.



----- Original Message ----
From: James Tone
<gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Sent: Tue, February
16, 2010 9:11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] [not Land-speed]

IMO a cable
should be mandated. It may not be any better but for my peace of mind I like
one. My diesel is wire and I don't feel all that warm and fuzzy. I really do
like drive by wire.


-----Original Message-----
>From: 23weldon
<23.weldon at comcast.net>
>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 8:32 AM
>To:
saltfever at comcast.net, land-speed at autox.team.net, race427 at aol.com
>Subject:
Re: [Land-speed] [not Land-speed]
>
>I think Toyota is singing a some like
that this year. The Japanese have 
>never been strong in software and this
particular weakness has bitten out of 
>their automakers, at least Toyota, a
big nasty chunk.  They sure got away 
>with blaming the floormats for a long
time.
>Toyota (and I'm sure other auto manufacturers) is learning what
Microsoft is 
>struggling with.  Systems so complex that they area beyond the
ability of 
>humans to completely control.  A software crash in your PC is a
nuisance.  A 
>software crash in your automobile is a bit more of an
inconvenience.
>I wonder how long it will be before some government requires
that all cars 
>sold must have a big red emergency stop button (like you see
on lots of 
>industrial machinery) right in front of the driver.
>
>Ed Weldon
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <race427 at aol.com>
>To:
<saltfever at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, February
16, 2010 7:46 AM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] A-arm and other bushings
>
>
>>
........    Sad to say, but I do not think we will ever come back to
>> what
we once were. 
>_______________________________________________
>Support
Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You
are subscribed as gmc6power at earthlink.net
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net 
http://www.team.net/donate.html

Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed
as mike_lackey at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Feb 16 15:14:01 2010
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:14:01 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage
In-Reply-To: <8CC7D4712E59AFA-5028-EAF@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
References: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84>
	<8CC7D4712E59AFA-5028-EAF@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <40FAC38141EA490A8409EF20E49AA322@DaveSatellite>

We can easily get 50 mpg no problem VW got 265 with a 2 seater.. problem is 
the emissions regs that make no sense and the prospect of small car vs. SUV 
or 18 wheeler and electric everything with too much mass to haul around.. 
The EPA regs should be grams per mile of pollutants vs. parts per million.. 
it is all fake but easy to measure.. You have 6 airbags electric everything 
from seats to windows to mirrors God forbid you should have to crank the 
mirror or window.. When was the last time you changed the seat position and 
could not pull a lever? Blame the feds and states like CA that are working 
so far to the right of the decimal point it is silly. Ethanol fixed nothing 
but parts per million but not parts per mile as you now have to burn more 
and burns more fuel to make than it saves... You need to read a bit and it 
is all very plain. We have been sold down the river by a few who think they 
know something but actually could not do the btu calcs if they had a gun to 
their head.. So if you really want good mileage you have a lot to request 
from your Congressmen and Senators and State gov people to get realistic.. 
It is not the ability but the lack of goverment acceptace to exercise it.
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <race427 at aol.com>
To: <23.weldon at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:46 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage


> Ed,
>
>     You would think with all of the advancements in electronics and
> engine design, vehicles would be getting better fuel mileage.  The
> price of oil keeps going up and up and the fuel mileage remains the
> same.   Our economy is in a shambles because of the oil prices.  Not
> one manufacturer can come out with a car which gives excellent fuel
> economy 40 + mpg.   Not talking Hybrids.  VW does it with the TDI, but
> I have not heard good things about this little diesel.  Something is
> wrong somewhere.   Guess I am not smart enough to see it.  :(    All I
> know, is it costs a small fortune to travel anywhere today by car.
> Between the price of fuel and tolls here in the Northeast, they are
> robbing us.   What will happen if gas goes to $ 5.00 gallon and stays
> there?    Arggggggh
>
>     Tony

From neil at dbelltech.com  Tue Feb 16 16:33:30 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:33:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage
In-Reply-To: <40FAC38141EA490A8409EF20E49AA322@DaveSatellite>
References: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84><8CC7D4712E59AFA-5028-EAF@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
	<40FAC38141EA490A8409EF20E49AA322@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <0A2BD2412876427CAB64D57E306CC98C@tiger>

Amen, Dave.

The emission "PPM" criterion makes no sense at all. Using that method, a 
1710 CID Allison V12 might pass but a 50cc Vespa motor scooter could fail. 
Which one adds the greatest QUANTITY of emissions to the atmosphere?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:14 PM
To: <23.weldon at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <race427 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage

> We can easily get 50 mpg no problem VW got 265 with a 2 seater.. problem 
> is the emissions regs that make no sense and the prospect of small car vs. 
> SUV or 18 wheeler and electric everything with too much mass to haul 
> around.. The EPA regs should be grams per mile of pollutants vs. parts per 
> million.. it is all fake but easy to measure.. You have 6 airbags electric 
> everything from seats to windows to mirrors God forbid you should have to 
> crank the mirror or window.. When was the last time you changed the seat 
> position and could not pull a lever? Blame the feds and states like CA 
> that are working so far to the right of the decimal point it is silly. 
> Ethanol fixed nothing but parts per million but not parts per mile as you 
> now have to burn more and burns more fuel to make than it saves... You 
> need to read a bit and it is all very plain. We have been sold down the 
> river by a few who think they know something but actually could not do the 
> btu calcs if they had a gun to their head.. So if you really want good 
> mileage you have a lot to request from your Congressmen and Senators and 
> State gov people to get realistic.. It is not the ability but the lack of 
> goverment acceptace to exercise it.
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <race427 at aol.com>
> To: <23.weldon at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:46 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage
>
>
>> Ed,
>>
>>     You would think with all of the advancements in electronics and
>> engine design, vehicles would be getting better fuel mileage.  The
>> price of oil keeps going up and up and the fuel mileage remains the
>> same.   Our economy is in a shambles because of the oil prices.  Not
>> one manufacturer can come out with a car which gives excellent fuel
>> economy 40 + mpg.   Not talking Hybrids.  VW does it with the TDI, but
>> I have not heard good things about this little diesel.  Something is
>> wrong somewhere.   Guess I am not smart enough to see it.  :(    All I
>> know, is it costs a small fortune to travel anywhere today by car.
>> Between the price of fuel and tolls here in the Northeast, they are
>> robbing us.   What will happen if gas goes to $ 5.00 gallon and stays
>> there?    Arggggggh
>>
>>     Tony

From neil at dbelltech.com  Tue Feb 16 16:36:59 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:36:59 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage
In-Reply-To: <40FAC38141EA490A8409EF20E49AA322@DaveSatellite>
References: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84><8CC7D4712E59AFA-5028-EAF@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
	<40FAC38141EA490A8409EF20E49AA322@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <F72ED2497E7C4F4BBDB4052B69B5A2F5@tiger>

Dave;

One more thought--

You know what they say about politicians who don't know sh*t from Shinola?


Don't let them polish your shoes! :)

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:14 PM
To: <23.weldon at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <race427 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage

> We can easily get 50 mpg no problem VW got 265 with a 2 seater.. problem 
> is the emissions regs that make no sense and the prospect of small car vs. 
> SUV or 18 wheeler and electric everything with too much mass to haul 
> around.. The EPA regs should be grams per mile of pollutants vs. parts per 
> million.. it is all fake but easy to measure.. You have 6 airbags electric 
> everything from seats to windows to mirrors God forbid you should have to 
> crank the mirror or window.. When was the last time you changed the seat 
> position and could not pull a lever? Blame the feds and states like CA 
> that are working so far to the right of the decimal point it is silly. 
> Ethanol fixed nothing but parts per million but not parts per mile as you 
> now have to burn more and burns more fuel to make than it saves... You 
> need to read a bit and it is all very plain. We have been sold down the 
> river by a few who think they know something but actually could not do the 
> btu calcs if they had a gun to their head.. So if you really want good 
> mileage you have a lot to request from your Congressmen and Senators and 
> State gov people to get realistic.. It is not the ability but the lack of 
> goverment acceptace to exercise it.
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <race427 at aol.com>
> To: <23.weldon at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:46 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage
>
>
>> Ed,
>>
>>     You would think with all of the advancements in electronics and
>> engine design, vehicles would be getting better fuel mileage.  The
>> price of oil keeps going up and up and the fuel mileage remains the
>> same.   Our economy is in a shambles because of the oil prices.  Not
>> one manufacturer can come out with a car which gives excellent fuel
>> economy 40 + mpg.   Not talking Hybrids.  VW does it with the TDI, but
>> I have not heard good things about this little diesel.  Something is
>> wrong somewhere.   Guess I am not smart enough to see it.  :(    All I
>> know, is it costs a small fortune to travel anywhere today by car.
>> Between the price of fuel and tolls here in the Northeast, they are
>> robbing us.   What will happen if gas goes to $ 5.00 gallon and stays
>> there?    Arggggggh
>>
>>     Tony
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Feb 16 17:33:58 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:33:58 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage
In-Reply-To: <40FAC38141EA490A8409EF20E49AA322@DaveSatellite>
References: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84>
	<8CC7D4712E59AFA-5028-EAF@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
	<40FAC38141EA490A8409EF20E49AA322@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <20100217003406.A2694187660@autox.team.net>

Well said, Dave!!!!

Skip




At 02:14 PM 2/16/2010, Dave Dahlgren wrote:
>We can easily get 50 mpg no problem VW got 265 with a 2 seater.. 
>problem is the emissions regs that make no sense and the prospect of 
>small car vs. SUV or 18 wheeler and electric everything with too 
>much mass to haul around.. The EPA regs should be grams per mile of 
>pollutants vs. parts per million.. it is all fake but easy to 
>measure.. You have 6 airbags electric everything from seats to 
>windows to mirrors God forbid you should have to crank the mirror or 
>window.. When was the last time you changed the seat position and 
>could not pull a lever? Blame the feds and states like CA that are 
>working so far to the right of the decimal point it is silly. 
>Ethanol fixed nothing but parts per million but not parts per mile 
>as you now have to burn more and burns more fuel to make than it 
>saves... You need to read a bit and it is all very plain. We have 
>been sold down the river by a few who think they know something but 
>actually could not do the btu calcs if they had a gun to their 
>head.. So if you really want good mileage you have a lot to request 
>from your Congressmen and Senators and State gov people to get 
>realistic.. It is not the ability but the lack of goverment 
>acceptace to exercise it.
>Dave
>----- Original Message ----- From: <race427 at aol.com>
>To: <23.weldon at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:46 PM
>Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage
>
>
>>Ed,
>>
>>     You would think with all of the advancements in electronics and
>>engine design, vehicles would be getting better fuel mileage.  The
>>price of oil keeps going up and up and the fuel mileage remains the
>>same.   Our economy is in a shambles because of the oil prices.  Not
>>one manufacturer can come out with a car which gives excellent fuel
>>economy 40 + mpg.   Not talking Hybrids.  VW does it with the TDI, but
>>I have not heard good things about this little diesel.  Something is
>>wrong somewhere.   Guess I am not smart enough to see it.  :(    All I
>>know, is it costs a small fortune to travel anywhere today by car.
>>Between the price of fuel and tolls here in the Northeast, they are
>>robbing us.   What will happen if gas goes to $ 5.00 gallon and stays
>>there?    Arggggggh
>>
>>     Tony

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Feb 16 17:40:20 2010
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:40:20 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage
In-Reply-To: <0A2BD2412876427CAB64D57E306CC98C@tiger>
References: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84><8CC7D4712E59AFA-5028-EAF@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
	<40FAC38141EA490A8409EF20E49AA322@DaveSatellite>
	<0A2BD2412876427CAB64D57E306CC98C@tiger>
Message-ID: <69883F0DF1FC4A0C905307A092F50D67@DaveSatellite>

You got it your a good engineer it is just not that complicated..
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>; <23.weldon at comcast.net>; 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>; <race427 at aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage


> Amen, Dave.
>
> The emission "PPM" criterion makes no sense at all. Using that method, a 
> 1710 CID Allison V12 might pass but a 50cc Vespa motor scooter could fail. 
> Which one adds the greatest QUANTITY of emissions to the atmosphere?
>
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Feb 16 19:11:28 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:11:28 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
References: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84><8CC7D4712E59AFA-5028-EAF@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
	<40FAC38141EA490A8409EF20E49AA322@DaveSatellite>
	<F72ED2497E7C4F4BBDB4052B69B5A2F5@tiger>
Message-ID: <05DD6FEEC59D4FD18424CDACE3226234@edc2750afa5a84>

I just happen to have an old almost empty can of Shinola and the residue 
therein indeed has a substantial color and texture resemblance to mammalian 
excrement, particularly the type that results from the organism's ingestion 
of something that is abnormal in its diet. (How would I know about this but 
that our family pet is a dachshund?)
Now for most of us the distinction between the two substances is quickly 
made by our sense of smell.  However it is been noted here that politicians 
cannot sense the difference.
We see and hear a lot of our politicians on the TV so it is pretty obvious 
that they have reasonable acuity in vision and hearing.  But since TV cannot 
convey anything about their sense of smell one could easily suspect that 
they have lost that ability.  Perhaps the election process and the 
associated funding environment creates the essential destruction of one of 
the politician's five senses.
Nevertheless the Shinola Test may be the principal determinant of why the 
behavior of politicians in the face of things that truly stink is so much 
different from the rest of us.  I hereby rest my case awaiting further 
evidence to support my hypothesis.
BTW, my indictment of Toyota is not so much for their use of hardware 
electronics as their inability to properly manage the software development. 
The problem here is that when you get thousands of lines of software code it 
gets impossible for the human brain to understand all the possible 
interactions from unusual input combinations.
A logical follow-on question is what will our technical inspectors have to 
say when someone shows up with one of these "fly by wire" Toyota's?
Oh yeah .....re: mileage and emissions.  I agree with Dahlgren.
IMHO I think we should be in a pay tax at the pump based on the amount 
emissions your vehicle puts out per gallon of fuel.  This is doable.  We 
have the technology and the specific data from state emissions testing.  All 
we need is a bar code or RFI chip on your car keys.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>; <23.weldon at comcast.net>; 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>; <race427 at aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage


> Dave; One more thought-- 
> You know what they say about politicians who don't know sh*t from Shinola?
> Don't let them polish your shoes! :)
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From RickByrnes at comcast.net  Tue Feb 16 21:23:31 2010
From: RickByrnes at comcast.net (RickByrnes at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:23:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
In-Reply-To: <05DD6FEEC59D4FD18424CDACE3226234@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <708639447.4654581266380611487.JavaMail.root@sz0129a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

BTW, my indictment of Toyota is not so much for their use of hardware
electronics as their inability to properly manage the software development.
The problem here is that when you get thousands of lines of software code it
gets impossible for the human brain to understand all the possible
interactions from unusual input combinations.


Software development is a bit unusual.B  Ford recognized in theB early
development of EEC that softwareB strategy was completely different than
calibrating an engine or other vehicle systems.B  Back then very few people
that wrote strategy ever really calibrated engines and visa versa.B  There
were a few, but even thenB one guy cannot think ofB all theB interactions.B  I
have no idea of how they do it today.



B 

A logical follow-on question is what will our technical inspectors have to
say when someone shows up with one of these "fly by wire" Toyota's?


I wonder what the tech inspectors did for two throttle return springs on the
Prius that ran a few years ago.



The Fusion Fuel cell was fly by wire.B  We used a Ford Diesel pedal assembly
and I had them add return springs.B  They (ford and roush) thought it was
silly, but the car went thru two very thorough inspections with no problems on
the technical inspectors and no comments in our book..

Now, concerns about the "hydrogen bomb" were a little differentB  and really
unfounded, but thats a different story.



Gee I wonder where that book is these days.

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Feb 17 09:28:53 2010
From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:28:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel
 mileage
In-Reply-To: <05DD6FEEC59D4FD18424CDACE3226234@edc2750afa5a84>
References: <31A7988EBFB6436DAA5A8BEA129C71E1@edc2750afa5a84><8CC7D4712E59AFA-5028-EAF@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
	<40FAC38141EA490A8409EF20E49AA322@DaveSatellite>
	<F72ED2497E7C4F4BBDB4052B69B5A2F5@tiger>
	<05DD6FEEC59D4FD18424CDACE3226234@edc2750afa5a84>
Message-ID: <000B8F26F1F44F23B4E7D542B3DD9FD7@tiger>

Great observation, Ed.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "23weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:11 PM
To: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>; "Dave Dahlgren" 
<ddahlgren at snet.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <race427 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] [non LSR]Electronics and other stuff like fuel 
mileage

> I just happen to have an old almost empty can of Shinola and the residue 
> therein indeed has a substantial color and texture resemblance to 
> mammalian excrement, particularly the type that results from the 
> organism's ingestion of something that is abnormal in its diet. (How would 
> I know about this but that our family pet is a dachshund?)
> Now for most of us the distinction between the two substances is quickly 
> made by our sense of smell.  However it is been noted here that 
> politicians cannot sense the difference.
> We see and hear a lot of our politicians on the TV so it is pretty obvious 
> that they have reasonable acuity in vision and hearing.  But since TV 
> cannot convey anything about their sense of smell one could easily suspect 
> that they have lost that ability.  Perhaps the election process and the 
> associated funding environment creates the essential destruction of one of 
> the politician's five senses.
> Nevertheless the Shinola Test may be the principal determinant of why the 
> behavior of politicians in the face of things that truly stink is so much 
> different from the rest of us.  I hereby rest my case awaiting further 
> evidence to support my hypothesis.
> BTW, my indictment of Toyota is not so much for their use of hardware 
> electronics as their inability to properly manage the software 
> development. The problem here is that when you get thousands of lines of 
> software code it gets impossible for the human brain to understand all the 
> possible interactions from unusual input combinations.
> A logical follow-on question is what will our technical inspectors have to 
> say when someone shows up with one of these "fly by wire" Toyota's?
> Oh yeah .....re: mileage and emissions.  I agree with Dahlgren.
> IMHO I think we should be in a pay tax at the pump based on the amount 
> emissions your vehicle puts out per gallon of fuel.  This is doable.  We 
> have the technology and the specific data from state emissions testing. 
> All we need is a bar code or RFI chip on your car keys.
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Neil Albaugh" <neil at dbelltech.com>
> To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>; <23.weldon at comcast.net>; 
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <race427 at aol.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electronics and other stuff like fuel mileage
>
>
>> Dave; One more thought-- 
>> You know what they say about politicians who don't know sh*t from 
>> Shinola?
>> Don't let them polish your shoes! :)
>> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Feb 18 00:08:50 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:08:50 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Nice chuckle
Message-ID: <4B7CE782.3070505@bradakis.com>

As a list admin, I've had countless troubles from folks at AOL for 
various reasons.
This one is great.  Race427 at aol.com thinks that mail from 
race427 at aol.com is not
worth the effort of reading.

mjb.


Subject:
Mail Delivery Problem
From:
Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at aol.com>
Date:
Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:50:51 EST

To:
<land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net>


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Subject: Mail Delivery Problem
Mailer: AIRmail [v127_r1.1]
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Message-ID: <201002161304.7e164b7ade1785 at omr-m25.mx.aol.com>

Your mail to the following recipients could not be delivered because they are not accepting mail from race427 at aol.com:
	race427 at aol.com

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Thu Feb 18 15:48:22 2010
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:48:22 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Buy a Bonneville drive.
Message-ID: <B967E8A8C1684F81B979F607FC84947B@ChrisHarrisPC>

List,
A number of years ago Bill Summers offered his lakester for 'rent a ride' to 
anyone wanting to do runs down the salt without building their own car.
Is there anyone offering this sort proposition currently ?
I've a friend who is happy to pay money for the opportunity to run on the 
salt up to, maybe, 200 mph, on a rental car basis.
Chris Harris.....................NZed. 

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 17:43:49 2010
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:43:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Buy a Bonneville drive.
In-Reply-To: <B967E8A8C1684F81B979F607FC84947B@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <212158.35951.qm@web52501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dennis Zainfield still has that program in place.
 
He can offer a red hat, Mark Weiler got his blue hat in the ex-Joe Law
lakester. I don't have contact info, it was on ebay. Maybe someone will have
current contact.
 
DW
XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!


A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
  

--- On Thu, 2/18/10, Chris Harris <yesford at clear.net.nz> wrote:


From: Chris Harris <yesford at clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Land-speed] Buy a Bonneville drive.
To: "Land speed list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 2:48 PM


List,
A number of years ago Bill Summers offered his lakester for 'rent a ride' to
anyone wanting to do runs down the salt without building their own car.
Is there anyone offering this sort proposition currently ?
I've a friend who is happy to pay money for the opportunity to run on the salt
up to, maybe, 200 mph, on a rental car basis.
Chris Harris.....................NZed.
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wolcott_jl at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 18:24:01 2010
From: wolcott_jl at yahoo.com (Joel Wolcott)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:24:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Buy a Bonneville drive.
In-Reply-To: <212158.35951.qm@web52501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <212158.35951.qm@web52501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <640837.24806.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Here is Dennis' site from Sums links list.

http://www.lsrdriving.com/index.htm



________________________________
From: dan warner <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
To: Land speed list <land-speed at autox.team.net>; Chris Harris <yesford at clear.net.nz>
Sent: Thu, February 18, 2010 7:43:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Buy a Bonneville drive.

Dennis Zainfield still has that program in place.

He can offer a red hat, Mark Weiler got his blue hat in the ex-Joe Law
lakester. I don't have contact info, it was on ebay. Maybe someone will have
current contact.

DW
XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!


A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
  

--- On Thu, 2/18/10, Chris Harris <yesford at clear.net.nz> wrote:


From: Chris Harris <yesford at clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Land-speed] Buy a Bonneville drive.
To: "Land speed list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 2:48 PM


List,
A number of years ago Bill Summers offered his lakester for 'rent a ride' to
anyone wanting to do runs down the salt without building their own car.
Is there anyone offering this sort proposition currently ?
I've a friend who is happy to pay money for the opportunity to run on the salt
up to, maybe, 200 mph, on a rental car basis.
Chris Harris.....................NZed.
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as wolcott_jl at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfevr at q.com  Thu Feb 18 19:51:14 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:51:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Buy a Bonneville drive.
In-Reply-To: <640837.24806.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <212158.35951.qm@web52501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>,
	<640837.24806.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT126-W34061D88E9E9041AB8B4E1C9460@phx.gbl>

Thanks for the link;



Never saw an onboard Maxton video before. Pretty cool stuff! Thanks again

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:24:01 -0800
> From: wolcott_jl at yahoo.com
> To: dwarner230 at yahoo.com; land-speed at autox.team.net; yesford at clear.net.nz
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Buy a Bonneville drive.
>
> Here is Dennis' site from Sums links list.
>
> http://www.lsrdriving.com/index.htm
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: dan warner <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
> To: Land speed list <land-speed at autox.team.net>; Chris Harris
<yesford at clear.net.nz>
> Sent: Thu, February 18, 2010 7:43:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Buy a Bonneville drive.
>
> Dennis Zainfield still has that program in place.
>
> He can offer a red hat, Mark Weiler got his blue hat in the ex-Joe Law
> lakester. I don't have contact info, it was on ebay. Maybe someone will
have
> current contact.
>
> DW
> XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!
>
>
> A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
> http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
> 1-818-998-4435 Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
> www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
>
>
> --- On Thu, 2/18/10, Chris Harris <yesford at clear.net.nz> wrote:
>
>
> From: Chris Harris <yesford at clear.net.nz>
> Subject: [Land-speed] Buy a Bonneville drive.
> To: "Land speed list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 2:48 PM
>
>
> List,
> A number of years ago Bill Summers offered his lakester for 'rent a ride'
to
> anyone wanting to do runs down the salt without building their own car.
> Is there anyone offering this sort proposition currently ?
> I've a friend who is happy to pay money for the opportunity to run on the
salt
> up to, maybe, 200 mph, on a rental car basis.
> Chris Harris.....................NZed.
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wolcott_jl at yahoo.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 21 15:16:35 2010
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (Joe & Lynne Lance)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:16:35 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR NASCAR PHYSICS
Message-ID: <3B2694ABD1C14A008D281EA8F66FCB4B@josephb4d4bd9f>

Just read an interesting book: "The Physics of Nascar-The science behind the
Speed" by Diandra Leslie-Pelecky.

 

The writer covers a lot of participants and technical aspects and ends up
embedded in Elliot Sadler's crew.

 

Available from Amazon.

 

Lance

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Feb 22 14:52:42 2010
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:52:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Toyota - Non LSR
Message-ID: <4177A8D5-2A77-447F-8DF0-F8A71DDBBF8C@comcast.net>


From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon Feb 22 22:58:56 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:58:56 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Sim Software
Message-ID: <000001cab44d$4a285880$de790980$@net>

Does anybody use Engine Pro simulator software? Can you weigh in on its
usefulness? I know this subject has been addresses many times in the past
but there is a interesting purchase offer starting on Tuesday and user
opinions would be valuable. If you don't use Engine Pro what program do you
use? I have used Patrick Hale's dos based software in the past and it was
good and worked as advertised. Patrick recently sold the company to Don
Terrill and he is making an unusual offer at  http://quarterjr.com. I am
primarily interested in the Engine program but if you use any of these
products could you give us your opinion. 

 

Many thanks in advance. 

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Fri Feb 26 17:10:47 2010
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:10:47 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] King Pin Bearings
Message-ID: <20100227001019.6D259187665@autox.team.net>

List,
I have been looking for a better bearing system for the king pins on 
the liner. I want to use tapered rollers instead of bushings but I 
can't find what I want. I want to do this to firm up the inline front 
end and make alignment more accurate.

Is there a kit to replace bushings with tapered rollers? The front 
end is early Chevy pickup.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Skip

From benn at sonic.net  Fri Feb 26 17:47:23 2010
From: benn at sonic.net (Benn)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:47:23 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] King Pin Bearings
References: <20100227001019.6D259187665@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <FBF9D9C9D5B8473E85AB6BFAA9F3119B@BennsDesktop>

My gut feel is that king pins may induce a little friction in the system 
that could be good for damping (assuming you've reamed the bushings on the 
snug side).  But, for calibration purposes, my experience with making a 
liner go fast is, uh, zero.
Benn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:10 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] King Pin Bearings


> List,
> I have been looking for a better bearing system for the king pins on the 
> liner. I want to use tapered rollers instead of bushings but I can't find 
> what I want. I want to do this to firm up the inline front end and make 
> alignment more accurate.
>
> Is there a kit to replace bushings with tapered rollers? The front end is 
> early Chevy pickup.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as benn at sonic.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Fri Feb 26 20:15:31 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:15:31 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] King Pin Bearings
Message-ID: <EE994E52BBF0487C90C56AFE791DA966@john>

Skip
You could ream the spindle bores for the next size rollers above the bushing 
wall thickness . Brinelling could be a problem and you'd need a way to 
retain the lower rollers . Is your scrub radius small . If not , correcting 
it would reduce the friction of standard bushings .
John



> List,
> I have been looking for a better bearing system for the king pins on the 
> liner. I want to use tapered rollers instead of bushings but I can't find 
> what I want. I want to do this to firm up the inline front end and make 
> alignment more accurate.
>
> Is there a kit to replace bushings with tapered rollers? The front end is 
> early Chevy pickup.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as joyseydevil at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Feb 26 20:43:49 2010
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:43:49 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] King Pin Bearings
References: <EE994E52BBF0487C90C56AFE791DA966@john>
Message-ID: <296B28EF4BB9400C9336592DE31B351A@edc2750afa5a84>

Skip -- Check out Torrington drawn cup needle bearings.  There are a lot of 
issues to consider there, including brinelling; but first go look at their 
engineering data and then let's talk.  You can harden and grind kingpins to 
an exact diametral fit (like a few tenths); but picking the right alloy and 
hardness requires a pretty close look at the loadings.  You don't want the 
kingpins so hard that they are subject to stress concentrations and fatigue. 
I suspect that 8620 with a heavy case hardening may be the answer.  But 
don't take my answer "to the bank" quite yet.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] King Pin Bearings


> Skip
> You could ream the spindle bores for the next size rollers above the 
> bushing wall thickness . Brinelling could be a problem and you'd need a 
> way to retain the lower rollers . Is your scrub radius small . If not , 
> correcting it would reduce the friction of standard bushings .
> John

>> List,
>> I have been looking for a better bearing system for the king pins on the 
>> liner. I want to use tapered rollers instead of bushings but I can't find 
>> what I want. I want to do this to firm up the inline front end and make 
>> alignment more accurate.
>>
>> Is there a kit to replace bushings with tapered rollers? The front end is 
>> early Chevy pickup.

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sat Feb 27 10:42:43 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:42:43 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] King Pin Bearings
Message-ID: <20100227174209.438EB187684@autox.team.net>

No problems since I fixed the scrub radius. The car is solid as 
always and the steering is now easy. Too much scrub radius in the 
past has put a significant load on the steering system that held the 
car still on the run. In the event of a blowout on the front, the 
driver would have likely lost control of the car when all the weight 
was concentrated on the remaining tire.

What I'm trying to fix now is inaccurate alignment....or at least 
unknown alignment. With the inline system I am not able, so far, to 
set the "toe in" accurately. I have used lasers and straight edges 
and when I get done setting it, I run the car back and forth on the 
shop floor and the wheels seem to flop and get out of alignment. This 
is because there is no opposing forces on a tie rod to keep 
everything in proper alignment since there is no conventional tie 
rod......I guess. There is considerable caster so slop is magnified.

So I have simply sighted them in when the car is moving "forward" and 
it seems to work. Tire wear is non existent so I think that it is OK. 
Still looking for something better. The Speedway Motors kit should do 
it or at least help, I hope.

Skip




At 11:57 PM 2/26/2010, you wrote:
> From my experience well fitted bushings appear to have no slack . 
> With bushing the amount of clearance is in the hands of the man 
> doing the fitting . I believe lathe heads always have bushings 
> because roller bearings have too much slack . . Have you had 
> handling or wheel flutter problems .

From saltfevr at q.com  Sat Feb 27 22:26:10 2010
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:26:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) 89 yr old woman,45 year Mercury!
Message-ID: <SNT126-W52E11549A21C3F0D67F733C93D0@phx.gbl>

This Granny drives a 540K mile Mercury Caliente. She's a hoot! Oh yeah ,she
packs heat too!

http://www.growingbolder.com/media/technology/vehicles/romancing-the-road-259
598.html

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sun Feb 28 03:35:45 2010
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:35:45 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] King Pin Bearings
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1267297202.27574.land-speed@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.15.1267297202.27574.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <000901cab861$c9b03fb0$5d10bf10$@net>

What exactly is that kit, Skip?

-----Original Message-----
. . . The Speedway Motors kit should do it or at least help, I hope.

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Feb 28 08:24:49 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:24:49 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] King Pin Bearings
In-Reply-To: <000901cab861$c9b03fb0$5d10bf10$@net>
References: <mailman.15.1267297202.27574.land-speed@autox.team.net>
	<000901cab861$c9b03fb0$5d10bf10$@net>
Message-ID: <20100228152512.43C23187664@autox.team.net>

Kirk,
I forwarded Speedway P/N 910-32117 Deluxe King Pin Kit catalog page 
to you. Did you receive it?
Skip



  02:35 AM 2/28/2010, Kirkwood wrote:
>What exactly is that kit, Skip?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>. . . The Speedway Motors kit should do it or at least help, I hope.

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Feb 28 10:22:52 2010
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:22:52 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] King Pin Bearings
Message-ID: <20100228172315.B1837187650@autox.team.net>

Mayf,
The instructions say to machine the king pin bores to 1.062/ 1.063 or 
if you buy their spindles you don't have to do the machining. I will 
do the machining, I think. I will also do some measuring before I get 
the kit. There are several kits available, it looks like. I'll talk 
to them Monday.
Skip




At 08:26 AM 2/28/2010, drmayf wrote:
>Skip, I was about to ask for kit details also.. I see  that  this 
>kit requires the use of speedway part numbered spindles. You going 
>to change from truck to roadster spindles?  Here is the Speedway note..
>
>"They're simple to install and are an easy, cost-effective way to 
>upgrade your 1937-1948 Ford or 1949-1954 Chevy suspension, as well 
>as tubular or I-beam street rod axles using 1949-1954 Chevy spindles.
>
>Use with 91632100 or 91632104 spindles."
>
>mayf

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun Feb 28 16:32:10 2010
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:32:10 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tank vent
Message-ID: <973A40793A854F1F9A97392A4DA9CA69@john>

Do I need a catch can on my dry sump tank vent and if so how big ?

Should my engine have a vent with a check valve in case of excessive blowby ?

From proclus at gnu-darwin.org  Sun Feb 28 21:15:54 2010
From: proclus at gnu-darwin.org (proclus at gnu-darwin.org)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:15:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Land-speed] radical mormons
Message-ID: <20100301041554.71D27D5C0DA@gnu-darwin.org>

Those of you who have been following mormonism on the web
for many years will probably recognize The Radical Mormon
publication.  This was likely the first attempt to make
a web portal for latter-day saint people, and this pioneering
effort helped to inspire many other sites to do likewise.  
Radical set itself apart as a place where devout and sincere
LDS and mormons could intelligently discuss controversial
doctrines in a positive light, at a time when the anti-mormon
forces were very powerful on the web.  The publication has been
active off and on ever since that time.  If you are not
familiar with it, you might want to have a look at it.  This
site broke new ground at the time that it was started in 1999.

http://proclus.tripod.com/radical/

For those who are already familiar with The Radical Mormon,
you might be interested to know that the editors and 
contributors have recently started work on some historical
information regarding the publication, which provides many
links to related websites.  You can have an advance look, 
and see as it evolves.  

http://proclus.tripod.com/radical/editor.html

Some of you may even like to contribute something; help us
fix broken links, contribute a news item, editorial, or
personal story.  If you were a part of the activity that
spawned The Radical Mormon, you might like to submit your
link for inclusion on our contributors page.

Regards,
proclus
http://www.gnu-darwin.org/

From rbuck at xmission.com  Sun Feb 28 21:40:06 2010
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:40:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] radical mormons
In-Reply-To: <20100301041554.71D27D5C0DA@gnu-darwin.org>
References: <20100301041554.71D27D5C0DA@gnu-darwin.org>
Message-ID: <4B8B4526.6070705@xmission.com>

Now this is interesting!

Not quite what I expected to see in my LSR folder.

RtR

Sent from my Dreadnought using that gawdawful Thunderbird email program


On 2/28/2010 9:15 PM, proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
> Those of you who have been following mormonism on the web
> for many years will probably recognize The Radical Mormon
> publication.  This was likely the first attempt to make
> a web portal for latter-day saint people, and this pioneering
> effort helped to inspire many other sites to do likewise.
> Radical set itself apart as a place where devout and sincere
> LDS and mormons could intelligently discuss controversial
> doctrines in a positive light, at a time when the anti-mormon
> forces were very powerful on the web.  The publication has been
> active off and on ever since that time.  If you are not
> familiar with it, you might want to have a look at it.  This
> site broke new ground at the time that it was started in 1999.
>
> http://proclus.tripod.com/radical/
>
> For those who are already familiar with The Radical Mormon,
> you might be interested to know that the editors and
> contributors have recently started work on some historical
> information regarding the publication, which provides many
> links to related websites.  You can have an advance look,
> and see as it evolves.
>
> http://proclus.tripod.com/radical/editor.html
>
> Some of you may even like to contribute something; help us
> fix broken links, contribute a news item, editorial, or
> personal story.  If you were a part of the activity that
> spawned The Radical Mormon, you might like to submit your
> link for inclusion on our contributors page.
>
> Regards,
> proclus
> http://www.gnu-darwin.org/

From mark at bradakis.com  Sun Feb 28 21:54:58 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:54:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] radical mormons
In-Reply-To: <4B8B4526.6070705@xmission.com>
References: <20100301041554.71D27D5C0DA@gnu-darwin.org>
	<4B8B4526.6070705@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <4B8B48A2.8040403@bradakis.com>

Ray Buck wrote:
> Now this is interesting!
>
> Not quite what I expected to see in my LSR folder.
>
>   
The author did just subscribe to the list a couple of hours ago.  I'm 
guessing that
whoever it is is some brain dead piece of human debris that for some reason
thinks this is an appropriate place for that stuff.  So it goes.

mjb.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Feb 28 22:11:59 2010
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:11:59 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] radical mormons
In-Reply-To: <4B8B48A2.8040403@bradakis.com>
References: <20100301041554.71D27D5C0DA@gnu-darwin.org>
	<4B8B4526.6070705@xmission.com> <4B8B48A2.8040403@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <4B8B4C9E.2020906@mayfco.com>

You did, I hope, unsubscribe him? Although...  I know what radical 
Islamic folk are, but what the heck is a radical Mormon... isn't that 
akin to saying radical Amish or something? hard to picture.... anyway he 
is now in my automatic junk folder ....

mayf
Mark J Bradakis wrote:

> Ray Buck wrote:
>
>> Now this is interesting!
>>
>> Not quite what I expected to see in my LSR folder.
>>
>>   
>
> The author did just subscribe to the list a couple of hours ago.  I'm 
> guessing that
> whoever it is is some brain dead piece of human debris that for some 
> reason
> thinks this is an appropriate place for that stuff.  So it goes.
>
> mjb.
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