From v4gmr at yahoo.com Tue Aug 3 03:41:51 2010 From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 02:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] My adventure Message-ID: <533701.66354.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Recently I bought a '28 Chevy banger with a '25 Olds head. Old race motor built just after the war by some high school kids who were midget racing. It passed around and now I have it, but the guy who sold it to me knew the original builders and they are still in Hayward. So here I am driving down a semi paved alley with no name at the beginning of the Hayward hills. Looking for some sheds, under a tree with a race car out side. I see some sheds, randomly attached and a tip off is a stack 4 wide head high of flathead Ford blocks against the side of one. I notice several V8-60 blocks laying in the weeds and a T block on a stand. A victim of a crankshaft disaster and a recent hill climb, I learned later. On the other side a small trailer has a partially covered Midget with the hood off and a 110 Offy. One cam cover off. Inside the shed it's pretty dark and really crowded. B&M blown V8-60 on a stand going together for a street roadster going to the Good Guys show in two weeks, And a late model flathead for something else. A crank grinder and several lathes. Also a Bridgeport. One little Craftsman lathe has recent looking chips on it. Everything else you would need to move stuff to get at. Jim goes into another room and grabs a hand full of '28 Chevy pushrods, a bunch of stainless valves and a Fairbanks Mag for my Chevy and gives them to me. Not bad. Then we go into another room with a 1913? Buick engine all together and ready to go. Big banger. Lots of shiny brass. Also a 331 type Cad engine with the oem iron two bbl intake and carburetor but on each corner is a Holley 94 mounted sideways. Sort of an IR, one venturi for each port deal except for the stock two bbl. Progressive linkage. Starts off on one and goes to Five. Bunch of V8-60 blocks being ported and relieved. All in all a pretty interesting day. Three guys nearing 80 still at it. Cool. From saltracer at awwwsome.com Tue Aug 3 08:22:21 2010 From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 07:22:21 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Subject: [Land-speed] My adventure References: <533701.66354.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C58261D.000004.03432@TOMSCOMPUTER> Just makes me drool while reading this. This kind of stuff is still out there, but rarely seen. I really admire those that hang on to the stuff...I have thrown away sooo much that I wish I had kept. The other extreme was Barry. He never threw anything away and was always collecting things he might need later. Sure do miss him. Tom -------Original Message------- From: Rich Fox Date: 8/3/2010 2:50:57 AM To: Land-speed at autox.team.net Cc: Bill Hoddinott Subject: [Land-speed] My adventure Recently I bought a '28 Chevy banger with a '25 Olds head. Old race motor built just after the war by some high school kids who were midget racing. It passed around and now I have it, but the guy who sold it to me knew the original builders and they are still in Hayward. So here I am driving down a semi paved alley with no name at the beginning of the Hayward hills. Looking for some sheds, under a tree with a race car out side. I see some sheds, randomly attached and a tip off is a stack 4 wide head high of flathead Ford blocks against the side of one. I notice several V8-60 blocks laying in the weeds and a T block on a stand. A victim of a crankshaft disaster and a recent hill climb, I learned later. On the other side a small trailer has a partially covered Midget with the hood off and a 110 Offy. One cam cover off. Inside the shed it's pretty dark and really crowded. B&M blown V8-60 on a stand going together for a street roadster going to the Good Guys show in two weeks, And a late model flathead for something else. A crank grinder and several lathes. Also a Bridgeport. One little Craftsman lathe has recent looking chips on it. Everything else you would need to move stuff to get at. Jim goes into another room and grabs a hand full of '28 Chevy pushrods, a bunch of stainless valves and a Fairbanks Mag for my Chevy and gives them to me. Not bad. Then we go into another room with a 1913? Buick engine all together and ready to go. Big banger. Lots of shiny brass. Also a 331 type Cad engine with the oem iron two bbl intake and carburetor but on each corner is a Holley 94 mounted sideways. Sort of an IR, one venturi for each port deal except for the stock two bbl. Progressive linkage. Starts off on one and goes to Five. Bunch of V8-60 blocks being ported and relieved. All in all a pretty interesting day. Three guys nearing 80 still at it. Cool. _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltracer at awwwsome.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of stampa_girl_line_en.gif] From v4gmr at yahoo.com Tue Aug 3 09:02:29 2010 From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 08:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] My adventure In-Reply-To: <4C58261D.000004.03432@TOMSCOMPUTER> Message-ID: <634193.94520.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One interisting thing Jim told me was that he could not understand the SCTA not accepting the French blocks in XF. I explained the repicla block ruling and pointed out there was no shortage of flathead blocks at his place. He told me that he had milled, brazzed, and ground several French blocks so that they would pass tech as original Ford blocks. But he did not want to say for whom. He also showed me how on the rods in my Chevy, before they started converting to inserts, they built the ID of the big end with brass brazzing. Then machined the bore a few thousands oversize then pour the babbit. The plan was to end up with a very thin layer of babbit so that it wouldn't pound out like normal poured babbit will. From sparky.2211 at cox.net Tue Aug 3 11:05:25 2010 From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:05:25 -0400 Subject: [Land-speed] My adventure In-Reply-To: <4C58261D.000004.03432@TOMSCOMPUTER> Message-ID: <20100803130525.E41MS.287428.imail@fed1rmwml36> ---- Tom, so glad to see you posting again wmts From benn at sonic.net Tue Aug 3 12:21:09 2010 From: benn at sonic.net (Benn) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:21:09 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] My adventure References: <533701.66354.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Delightful read, Rich! I realized I was grinning wide right from the first sentence. Thanks for the vicarious thrill! Benn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Fox" To: Cc: "Bill Hoddinott" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:41 AM Subject: [Land-speed] My adventure > Recently I bought a '28 Chevy banger with a '25 Olds head. Old race motor > built just after the war by some high school kids who were midget racing. > It > passed around and now I have it, but the guy who sold it to me knew the > original builders and they are still in Hayward. So here I am driving down > a > semi paved alley with no name at the beginning of the Hayward hills. > Looking > for some sheds, under a tree with a race car out side. I see some sheds, > randomly attached and a tip off is a stack 4 wide head high of flathead > Ford > blocks against the side of one. I notice several V8-60 blocks laying in > the > weeds and a T block on a stand. A victim of a crankshaft disaster and a > recent > hill climb, I learned later. On the other side a small trailer has a > partially > covered Midget with the hood off and a 110 Offy. One cam cover off. Inside > the > shed it's pretty dark and really crowded. B&M blown V8-60 on a stand going > together for a street roadster going to the Good Guys > show in two weeks, And a late model flathead for something else. A crank > grinder and several lathes. Also a Bridgeport. One little Craftsman lathe > has > recent looking chips on it. Everything else you would need to move stuff > to > get at. Jim goes into another room and grabs a hand full of '28 Chevy > pushrods, a bunch of stainless valves and a Fairbanks Mag for my Chevy and > gives them to me. Not bad. Then we go into another room with a 1913? Buick > engine all together and ready to go. Big banger. Lots of shiny brass. Also > a > 331 type Cad engine with the oem iron two bbl intake and carburetor but on > each corner is a Holley 94 mounted sideways. Sort of an IR, one venturi > for > each port deal except for the stock two bbl. Progressive linkage. Starts > off > on one and goes to Five. Bunch of V8-60 blocks being ported and relieved. > All > in all a pretty interesting day. Three guys nearing 80 still at it. Cool. > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/benn at sonic.net From NT788 at comcast.net Tue Aug 3 14:52:12 2010 From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 20:52:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Land-speed] My adventure In-Reply-To: <1081667484.938495.1280868699917.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <306699865.938531.1280868731975.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack One interisting thing Jim told me was that he could not understand the SCTA not accepting the French blocks in XF. I explained the repicla block ruling and pointed out there was no shortage of flathead blocks at his place. He told me that he had milled, brazzed, and ground several French blocks so that they would pass tech as original Ford blocks. But he did not want to say for whom. He also showed me how on the rods in my Chevy, before they started converting to inserts, they built the ID of the big end with brass brazzing. Then machined the bore a few thousands oversize then pour the babbit. The plan was to end up with a very thin layer of babbit so that it wouldn't pound out like normal poured babbit will. _______________________________________________ From desotoman at dslextreme.com Wed Aug 4 13:10:12 2010 From: desotoman at dslextreme.com (desotoman @dslextreme.com) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 12:10:12 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead Message-ID: "The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack" Sorry Jack, I disagree, it makes for a level playing field. Tom Gerardi From mark at bradakis.com Wed Aug 4 20:31:32 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 20:31:32 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Server woes Message-ID: <20100805023132.882C82E0D5@bradakis.com> Came home from work and found out there were issues, starting a bit after noon Utah time. Team.Net is now back on the air. I wonder how many "Is this thing on?" messages I'll have to delete over the next little while? mjb, the one who is obviously overpaid and underworked when it comes to Team.Net! From saltrat at pahrump.com Thu Aug 5 08:32:42 2010 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 07:32:42 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100805143137.3EF06187647@autox.team.net> Tom, Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel playing field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb question........is there more to it? Skip At 12:10 PM 8/4/2010, desotoman @dslextreme.com wrote: >"The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack" > >Sorry Jack, I disagree, it makes for a level playing field. > >Tom Gerardi >_______________________________________________ >Land-speed at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltrat at pahrump.com From jdincau at qnet.com Thu Aug 5 09:17:00 2010 From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:17:00 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <20100805143137.3EF06187647@autox.team.net> References: <20100805143137.3EF06187647@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <4E95BA5D9CE5437EAA16634AFE960104@denpc> If you don't have to use vintage parts, what's the point of having a vintage class? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Higginbotham" To: "desotoman @dslextreme.com" ; Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > Tom, > > Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel playing > field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? > > Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb > question........is there more to it? > > Skip From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Aug 5 09:49:34 2010 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 08:49:34 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <20100805143137.3EF06187647@autox.team.net> References: <20100805143137.3EF06187647@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <4C5ADD8E.7060307@mayfco.com> Skip, me too! I was wondering how all the aftermarket super blocks fit into this argument. What makes a "Fench" block unacceptable? mayf Skip Higginbotham wrote: > Tom, > > Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel > playing field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? > > Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb > question........is there more to it? > > Skip > > > > At 12:10 PM 8/4/2010, desotoman @dslextreme.com wrote: > >> "The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack" >> >> Sorry Jack, I disagree, it makes for a level playing field. >> >> Tom Gerardi From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Aug 5 10:03:08 2010 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 09:03:08 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <4E95BA5D9CE5437EAA16634AFE960104@denpc> References: <20100805143137.3EF06187647@autox.team.net> <4E95BA5D9CE5437EAA16634AFE960104@denpc> Message-ID: <4C5AE0BC.2040804@mayfco.com> Interesting thought. But, I have trouble with the folk who take an old V8 block, hog out the valley and weld in a new valley so that the exhaust exits alongside the intake runners. Do those folk use vintage old cast iron or new steel or? Are cams new old stock? Or modern? How about the head gaskets? NOS? What exactly defines what vintage is? Is there a part by part list of what can or cannot be changed and who made the list, if so? Please note, I do not use vintage engines or parts. Other than the discussion, I have no dog in this rumpus. It all smacks of record protectionism to me. But, whadda I know.... mayf Jim Dincau wrote: >If you don't have to use vintage parts, what's the point of having a vintage >class? > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Skip Higginbotham" >To: "desotoman @dslextreme.com" ; > >Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 7:32 AM >Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > > > > >>Tom, >> >>Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel playing >>field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? >> >>Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb >>question........is there more to it? >> >>Skip >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Land-speed at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com From v4gmr at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 10:22:06 2010 From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <4C5ADD8E.7060307@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <355867.36768.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Tjhe rule is clear. "any production FORD/MERCURY passenger car V-8 flathead engine, 1932 through 1953, up to 325 cid." How would the French blocks fit into that? Once again if you don't like a rule there are ways of trying to have them changed. Good luck with that. --- On Thu, 8/5/10, drmayf wrote: From: drmayf Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead To: "Skip Higginbotham" Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net, "desotoman @dslextreme.com" Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 8:49 AM Skip, me too! I was wondering how all the aftermarket super blocks fit into this argument. What makes a "Fench" block unacceptable? mayf Skip Higginbotham wrote: > Tom, > > Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel > playing field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? > > Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb > question........is there more to it? > > Skip > > > > At 12:10 PM 8/4/2010, desotoman @dslextreme.com wrote: > >> "The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack" >> >> Sorry Jack, I disagree, it makes for a level playing field. >> >> Tom Gerardi _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/v4gmr at yahoo.com From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Thu Aug 5 10:22:20 2010 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:22:20 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <4C5ADD8E.7060307@mayfco.com> References: <20100805143137.3EF06187647@autox.team.net> <4C5ADD8E.7060307@mayfco.com> Message-ID: This was discussed a great length on landracing.com as well as this site. Look into the archives of both. Lets go racing.. Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" To: "Skip Higginbotham" Cc: ; "desotoman @dslextreme.com" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > Skip, me too! I was wondering how all the aftermarket super blocks fit > into this argument. What makes a "Fench" block unacceptable? > > mayf > > Skip Higginbotham wrote: > >> Tom, >> >> Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel playing >> field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? >> >> Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb >> question........is there more to it? >> >> Skip >> >> >> >> At 12:10 PM 8/4/2010, desotoman @dslextreme.com wrote: >> >>> "The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack" >>> >>> Sorry Jack, I disagree, it makes for a level playing field. >>> >>> Tom Gerardi > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com From 23.weldon at comcast.net Thu Aug 5 10:28:17 2010 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:28:17 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead References: <20100805143137.3EF06187647@autox.team.net> <4E95BA5D9CE5437EAA16634AFE960104@denpc> Message-ID: Bit of sarcasm here.... How about the newbie street rodder types with scant 1950's experience in their memories form a "one design" flathead street roadster class and petition the SCTA to add that class to the record book. Everybody uses the same fiberglass roadster body. (How about a slippery 37 Ford Roadster if someone wants to 3d scan one of the 10 originals and make a buck from that.) French blocks allowed of course. Turbos, engine management systems, belly pans, alcohol fuel (PC for environmentalists) all OK. And of course rear wheel fender skirts.....or maybe no rear fenders. We're talking a thoroughly modern billet street rod here with the "gee wiz" "flathead V-8 for power but built in the "tradition" of the 21st century. They'd love them at "Good Guys". Ed Weldon =(: ) (Do I have to credit our resident troll and his copyright rip-off of the Bob Rufi story for the inspiration, skirted rear fenders, behind my comments above?) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Dincau" To: "desotoman @dslextreme.com" ; ; "Skip Higginbotham" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > If you don't have to use vintage parts, what's the point of having a > vintage class? From dwarner230 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 10:41:48 2010 From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <4C5AE0BC.2040804@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <379032.32191.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Well Mayf, Instead of asking questions like "What exactly defines what vintage is?" you might try to read the rulebook. Take a look at section 2.A.1. And, for your education, the reverse port configuration for the flathead V8 was used before the war in oval track racing. History is an interesting thing. DW --- On Thu, 8/5/10, drmayf wrote: From: drmayf Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead To: "Jim Dincau" Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net, "desotoman @dslextreme.com" Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 9:03 AM Interesting thought. But, I have trouble with the folk who take an old V8 block, hog out the valley and weld in a new valley so that the exhaust exits alongside the intake runners. Do those folk use vintage old cast iron or new steel or? Are cams new old stock? Or modern? How about the head gaskets? NOS? What exactly defines what vintage is? Is there a part by part list of what can or cannot be changed and who made the list, if so? Please note, I do not use vintage engines or parts. Other than the discussion, I have no dog in this rumpus. It all smacks of record protectionism to me. But, whadda I know.... mayf Jim Dincau wrote: > If you don't have to use vintage parts, what's the point of having a vintage class? > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Higginbotham" > To: "desotoman @dslextreme.com" ; > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 7:32 AM > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > > > >> Tom, >> >> Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel playing field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? >> >> Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb question........is there more to it? >> >> Skip >> > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/dwarner230 at yahoo.com From 23.weldon at comcast.net Thu Aug 5 11:26:18 2010 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:26:18 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead References: <379032.32191.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <18FECD018950432BB6B5879CB677B6BA@edc2750afa5a84> Dan - Minor historical note, not very PC these days. Back in New Jersey in the 1950's they were referred to as "Chinese" flatheads. I guess they must have had old updraft carbs on the exhaust ports. Marry a Model A intake flange to a flathead exhaust manifold, one carb on each side. That would make a pretty crazy street rod project today. Who's going to be the first rat rodder to show up at the Salt with one of those? I wonder how it would run with a normal rotation cam if you hooked the battery up backwards to make the whole thing turn over CCW , kept the ignition coil the right polarity and set the ignition about 15 degrees retard from the stock position. Of course use a model A rear end so the ring gear can be flipped to the other side. BTW, Dave McCain has an interesting story about his experience with the flathead exhaust through the hood of the pinto. (If he's willing to admit to it) Ed Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan warner" To: "Jim Dincau" ; Cc: ; "desotoman @dslextreme.com" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > And, for your education, the reverse port configuration for the flathead > V8 > was used before the war in oval track racing. History is an interesting > thing. From desotoman at dslextreme.com Thu Aug 5 11:53:37 2010 From: desotoman at dslextreme.com (desotoman @dslextreme.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:53:37 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <4c5acb7e.4620e70a.4e19.ffff9ecfSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <4c5acb7e.4620e70a.4e19.ffff9ecfSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Skip, IMO the key words everyone has to remember in this discussion is "Vintage Engine". If the rules say 1953 and earllier Ford/ Mercury passenger car engine, then a motor produced in the 1980's would not be vintage. Also the French made some changes to the block and I have been told it is about 30 lbs heavier than the Ford counterpart and much stronger. By keeping the rules at 1953 and before makes it truly a "Vintage Engine", and the block limits the amount of HP one can make. The french blocks would have an unfair advantage over the ford/mercury blocks, and that is where the playing field would be unlevel. There is no shortage of Ford/Mercury blocks so that in itself is not a problem. In regards to the aftermarket engine casting for other than Vintage Engine classes, The only other class I might have a problem with them running one in is in production class, since it would not be a production engine off the assembly line. I am not trying to start a big discussion on this subject, like someone said it has been discussed to death on other forums. These are just my views on the subject. Tom G. On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Skip Higginbotham wrote: > > Tom, > > Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel playing > field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? > > Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb > question........is there more to it? > > Skip > > > > > At 12:10 PM 8/4/2010, desotoman @dslextreme.com wrote: > >> "The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack" >> >> Sorry Jack, I disagree, it makes for a level playing field. >> >> Tom Gerardi >> _______________________________________________ >> Land-speed at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltrat at pahrump.com From NT788 at comcast.net Thu Aug 5 13:06:36 2010 From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 19:06:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <1184338857.1041645.1281034797203.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <903516090.1042047.1281035196506.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> The old term Hot Rod meant souping up stuff either byB hard workB and or by spending money! B It didn't mean makingB more rules!B That's what promoters do!B The effort spent making rules could be better spentB optimizing yourB combination! An old rusty antique flathead is more expensive to build than a frenchie! The fast ones have been camouflaged anyway!B WhenB aB B playing field is levelB the most money winsB I:E Nascar! Remember the frog who gets boiled slowly! The rule book is thick enough! Let freedom reign! Jack Costella ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Higginbotham" To: "desotoman @dslextreme.com" , land-speed at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2010 7:32:42 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead Tom, Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel playing field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb question........is there more to it? Skip At 12:10 PM 8/4/2010, desotoman @dslextreme.com wrote: >"The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack" > >Sorry Jack, I disagree, it makes for a level playing field. > >Tom Gerardi >_______________________________________________ >Land-speed at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltrat at pahrump.com _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net From jolylance at earthlink.net Thu Aug 5 13:07:40 2010 From: jolylance at earthlink.net (Joe & Lynne Lance) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:07:40 -0400 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <379032.32191.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <4C5AE0BC.2040804@mayfco.com> <379032.32191.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8AFD98DCDC884696B7C26600DBDE1BEC@josephb4d4bd9f> What is the advantage of the reverse port configuration ? Since the two inner exhaust ports on each side of the flat head are siamesed, I would think using those exhaust ports as intakes would add additional flow restriction if used for the intake side. If I remember correctly, the FLATFIRE engine uses the reverse port configuration but is turbocharged. Even then I don't see an advantage to reversing the ports. Reduced back pressure when exhausting thru the original intake ports ? ---what am I missing ? Lance -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of dan warner Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:42 PM To: Jim Dincau; drmayf at mayfco.com Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net; desotoman @dslextreme.com Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead Well Mayf, Instead of asking questions like "What exactly defines what vintage is?" you might try to read the rulebook. Take a look at section 2.A.1. And, for your education, the reverse port configuration for the flathead V8 was used before the war in oval track racing. History is an interesting thing. DW From jdincau at qnet.com Thu Aug 5 13:31:21 2010 From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:31:21 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <8AFD98DCDC884696B7C26600DBDE1BEC@josephb4d4bd9f> References: <4C5AE0BC.2040804@mayfco.com> <379032.32191.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8AFD98DCDC884696B7C26600DBDE1BEC@josephb4d4bd9f> Message-ID: <15323910CAF4421A85D1A897727AE347@denpc> In the standard configuration the exhaust port goes through the water jacket creating chronic overheating. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe & Lynne Lance" To: "'dan warner'" ; "'Jim Dincau'" ; Cc: ; "'desotoman @dslextreme.com'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:07 PM Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > What is the advantage of the reverse port configuration ? > > Since the two inner exhaust ports on each side of the flat head are > siamesed, I would think using those exhaust ports as intakes would add > additional flow restriction if used for the intake side. > > If I remember correctly, the FLATFIRE engine uses the reverse port > configuration but is turbocharged. Even then I don't see an advantage to > reversing the ports. Reduced back pressure when exhausting thru the > original > intake ports ? ---what am I missing ? > > Lance > > -----Original Message----- > From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of dan warner > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:42 PM > To: Jim Dincau; drmayf at mayfco.com > Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net; desotoman @dslextreme.com > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > > Well Mayf, > > Instead of asking questions like "What exactly defines what vintage is?" > you > might try to read the rulebook. Take a look at section 2.A.1. > > And, for your education, the reverse port configuration for the flathead > V8 > was used before the war in oval track racing. History is an interesting > thing. > > DW From turborick at turborick.com Thu Aug 5 13:46:58 2010 From: turborick at turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:46:58 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <903516090.1042047.1281035196506.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1184338857.1041645.1281034797203.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <903516090.1042047.1281035196506.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <08ff01cb34d6$f84358c0$e8ca0a40$@com> The fast ones have been camouflaged anyway! Jack Are you sure about that?.......were sorta fast Thanks Rick Yacoucci http://www.yacoucci.com http://www.turborick.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Higginbotham" To: "desotoman @dslextreme.com" , land-speed at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2010 7:32:42 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead Tom, Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel playing field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb question........is there more to it? Skip At 12:10 PM 8/4/2010, desotoman @dslextreme.com wrote: >"The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack" > >Sorry Jack, I disagree, it makes for a level playing field. > >Tom Gerardi >_______________________________________________ >Land-speed at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltrat at pahrump.com _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/turborick at turborick.com From NT788 at comcast.net Thu Aug 5 15:17:38 2010 From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 21:17:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <355867.36768.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1339116166.1049821.1281043058727.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hey Rich You already said "there are ways" to useB a French block. "Braze and grind"!B Think a death penalty would stop it? Jack Tjhe rule is clear. "any production FORD/MERCURY passenger car V-8 flathead engine, 1932 through 1953, up to 325 cid." How would the French blocks fit into that? Once again if you don't like a rule there are ways of trying to have them changed. Good luck with that. Skip, me too! I was wondering how all the aftermarket super blocks fit into this argument. What makes a "Fench" block unacceptable? mayf Skip Higginbotham wrote: > Tom, > > Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel > playing field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? > > Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb > question........is there more to it? > > Skip > > > > At 12:10 PM 8/4/2010, desotoman @dslextreme.com wrote: > >> "The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack" >> >> Sorry Jack, I disagree, it makes for a level playing field. >> >> Tom Gerardi _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/v4gmr at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net From v4gmr at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 15:18:42 2010 From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <903516090.1042047.1281035196506.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <719915.76275.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I believe the rule defining Vintage engines predated the French blocks. It is really ment to keep out Donavin and such blocks to maintain some semblance of Vintage in the Vintage classes. When the French blocks were made available they did not meet tie estabilished rules. The rules were not made as a response to the French blocks as Jack seems to me implying. --- On Thu, 8/5/10, NT788 at comcast.net wrote: From: NT788 at comcast.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead To: "Skip Higginbotham" Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net, "desotoman @dslextreme.com" Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 12:06 PM The old term Hot Rod meant souping up stuff either byB hard workB and or by spending money! B It didn't mean makingB more rules!B That's what promoters do!B The effort spent making rules could be better spentB optimizing yourB combination! An old rusty antique flathead is more expensive to build than a frenchie! The fast ones have been camouflaged anyway!B WhenB aB B playing field is levelB the most money winsB I:E Nascar! Remember the frog who gets boiled slowly! The rule book is thick enough! Let freedom reign! Jack Costella ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Higginbotham" To: "desotoman @dslextreme.com" , land-speed at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2010 7:32:42 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead Tom, Please help me understand how a stronger block makes an unlevel playing field. Does that make a World Castings Chevy Merlin block unfair? Since I have not studied the "French" issues, this may be a dumb question........is there more to it? Skip At 12:10 PM 8/4/2010, desotoman @dslextreme.com wrote: >"The french rule makes flathead "Lovers" spend more $. Bad! Jack" > >Sorry Jack, I disagree, it makes for a level playing field. > >Tom Gerardi >_______________________________________________ >Land-speed at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/saltrat at pahrump.com _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/v4gmr at yahoo.com From wester6935 at comcast.net Thu Aug 5 15:40:33 2010 From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:40:33 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: air density References: Message-ID: This may help to explain the figures Rick Gold posts on the door of the ERC trailer and why they can change during the day. Begin forwarded message: > From: Thomas Kirkham > Date: August 5, 2010 3:07:12 PM MDT > To: Wester Potter > Subject: air density > > Interesting article on air density. > > http://wahiduddin.net/calc/density_altitude.htm From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Aug 5 16:10:48 2010 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 15:10:48 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <379032.32191.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <379032.32191.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C5B36E8.3070501@mayfco.com> Dan, I know the reverse port config has been around a long time. The point I was making or trying to make is what materials are used to make the change. Vintage cast iron? New modern iron? Brazing methods? seems to me that if such a mod is allowed then it should be made with the same kind of tools and materials that it was originally done with. What about use of vintage gaskets? What parts are allowed to be non vintage? How about a modern cast aluminum or machined head? That certainly isn't vintage. Now draw a parallel to todays repop motor blocks. Many block and engines that are not manufacturer specific. A windsor Man O War block for my 5.0L may have the same dimesnion as that of the original for bore but most everything else has been improved with better and stronger materials. By the way is nitrous allowed in vintage racing? Heck, it was used by the Germans in WWII so that line of reasoning would make it allowable. It just seems screwy to me. Makes me glad I am not a part of trying to keep it all together, lol. mayf dan warner wrote: > Well Mayf, > > Instead of asking questions like "What exactly defines what vintage > is?" you might try to read the rulebook. Take a look at section 2.A.1. > > And, for your education, the reverse port configuration for the > flathead V8 was used before the war in oval track racing. History is > an interesting thing. > > DW > > > -- > snip From dwarner230 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 16:31:37 2010 From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <4C5B36E8.3070501@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <739168.90564.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> 80% of the answers you seek are still in the same rulebook. Monitoring the methods and tools used to modify a block seems an impossible task. How would you approach the program given the many, many people World Wide who would attempt such a project? DW --- On Thu, 8/5/10, drmayf wrote: From: drmayf Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead To: "dan warner" Cc: "Jim Dincau" , land-speed at autox.team.net, "desotoman @dslextreme.com" Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 3:10 PM Dan, I know the reverse port config has been around a long time. The point I was making or trying to make is what materials are used to make the change. Vintage cast iron? New modern iron? Brazing methods? seems to me that if such a mod is allowed then it should be made with the same kind of tools and materials that it was originally done with. What about use of vintage gaskets? What parts are allowed to be non vintage? How about a modern cast aluminum or machined head? That certainly isn't vintage. Now draw a parallel to todays repop motor blocks. Many block and engines that are not manufacturer specific. A windsor Man O War block for my 5.0L may have the same dimesnion as that of the original for bore but most everything else has been improved with better and stronger materials. By the way is nitrous allowed in vintage racing? Heck, it was used by the Germans in WWII so that line of reasoning would make it allowable. It just seems screwy to me. Makes me glad I am not a part of trying to keep it all together, lol. mayf dan warner wrote: > Well Mayf, > Instead of asking questions like "What exactly defines what vintage is?" you might try to read the rulebook. Take a look at section 2.A.1. > And, for your education, the reverse port configuration for the flathead V8 was used before the war in oval track racing. History is an interesting thing. > DW > > > -- > snip From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Aug 5 19:06:12 2010 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:06:12 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: air density In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C5B6004.1050003@mayfco.com> Well, interesting. Looks like someting I would put together, lol. But, to keep my tuning simple I just use the plain old air density. I go back to basics which use absolute pressure and temperature only and simply calculate the density at any given time. It is only a few calculator strokes. If I want to see how density of teh ari affects the current tune (carbed and mechanical injection) then I use the density when the tune was established, calculate the new density and ratio it to see how much of a change is needed. With my curent mass air flow meter, I don't even have to do that. The brain box measues the mass of air directly and then figures fueling as appropriate. Density altitude meters can be had for, I think, about a 100 bucks. I bought an old airplane absolute pressure gauge instead. YMMV mayf Wester Potter wrote: >This may help to explain the figures Rick Gold posts on the door of the ERC >trailer and why they can change during the day. > >Begin forwarded message: > > > >>From: Thomas Kirkham >>Date: August 5, 2010 3:07:12 PM MDT >>To: Wester Potter >>Subject: air density >> >>Interesting article on air density. >> >>http://wahiduddin.net/calc/density_altitude.htm >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Land-speed at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com From advo53 at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 20:48:17 2010 From: advo53 at gmail.com (greg meyers) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 21:48:17 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Grill covers in Alt class Message-ID: Wondering if grill covers in Alt classes can have holes or slots in them and still be considered grill covers.....We have overheated in the past with full grill covers and a full air dam. The car now has a different motor and hasn't overheated yet, but I haven't run it very long under a load either. From gmc6power at earthlink.net Thu Aug 5 21:38:28 2010 From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 20:38:28 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Grill covers in Alt class References: Message-ID: "Bumpers, grilles and front lights----MAY-----be removed and the opening created------MAY----be filled or covered. As I read it, and have done it in the past, slots or holes will be allowed as long as the others changes to make you legal for the class are done. As learned in NASCAR and other venues the more the air is forced around the body the faster one seems to go...Good Luck Subject: [Land-speed] Grill covers in Alt class > Wondering if grill covers in Alt classes can have holes or slots in them > and > still be considered grill covers.....We have overheated in the past with > full grill covers and a full air dam. The car now has a different motor > and > hasn't overheated yet, but I haven't run it very long under a load either. From saltfever at comcast.net Fri Aug 6 00:36:15 2010 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 23:36:15 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead Message-ID: The vintage class is about a level playing field. There is not a person here that does not respect the mechanical creativity and accomplishments of those in that era. The pursuit of a vintage record today is still about competing fairly against records of old. They had to play with Henry's metallurgy and all its inherent foibles. And yes, they were creative and massaged that old iron into hard to believe configurations. All the things Mayf mentioned, and many more he didn't mention, have all been tried at least 70 years ago. So there is really not much new in mechanisms that has not been tried in the vintage area. What has changed is metallurgy and casting techniques. The cast iron flathead starts to bend in the middle around 300HP. It can sag .006"-.008". The old timers tried many things but the inherent weakness was always there. The French blocks were made, under license, for their military up until about the mid 80's! Their metallurgy is profoundly better. Some evidence indicates they are STEEL blocks! It is undisputed that the French foundry core technology was incredibly better than Ford's. Internal exhaust passages are far superior to a vintage flathead. There is no comparison in strength or finish of a French block to a vintage flathead. How could you have any pride in your technical ability beating a vintage record with a new steel French block! As an aside, my 1907, single cylinder, Fairbanks Morris has a ROLLER cam. Most WWII radials and V engines all had roller cams. Other than modern electronics there is very little that is new. From NT788 at comcast.net Fri Aug 6 01:53:55 2010 From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 07:53:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <703080099.1071022.1281079917383.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <310465775.1071169.1281081235906.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> To: "Kirkwood" Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead All the serious competitor's can buy their old spec. enginesB from the same licensed builder! They will be allowed to provide their own carburetor jets. Now that's very level and fair! Records of old didn't have roll bars tire specs. fire extinguishers ect. Do you really want to try to beat them with all the new rules. Think museums! Or count head studs! Or give everybody a trophy with their timing slip! Some people work hard, to make some things fair, for some people! Jack The vintage class is about a level playing field. There is not a person here that does not respect the mechanical creativity and accomplishments of those in that era. The pursuit of a vintage record today is still about competing fairly against records of old. They had to play with Henry's metallurgy and all its inherent foibles. And yes, they were creative and massaged that old iron into hard to believe configurations. All the things Mayf mentioned, and many more he didn't mention, have all been tried at least 70 years ago. So there is really not much new in mechanisms that has not been tried in the vintage area. What has changed is metallurgy and casting techniques. The cast iron flathead starts to bend in the middle around 300HP. It can sag .006"-.008". The old timers tried many things but the inherent weakness was always there. The French blocks were made, under license, for their military up until about the mid 80's! Their metallurgy is profoundly better. Some evidence indicates they are STEEL blocks! It is undisputed that the French foundry core technology was incredibly better than Ford's. Internal exhaust passages are far superior to a vintage flathead. There is no comparison in strength or finish of a French block to a vintage flathead. How could you have any pride in your technical ability beating a vintage record with a new steel French block! As an aside, my 1907, single cylinder, Fairbanks Morris has a ROLLER cam. Most WWII radials and V engines all had roller cams. Other than modern electronics there is very little that is new. _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net From NT788 at comcast.net Fri Aug 6 01:57:07 2010 From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 07:57:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <310465775.1071169.1281081235906.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1032963380.1071192.1281081427874.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> To: "Kirkwood" Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead All the serious competitor's can buy their old spec. enginesB from the same licensed builder! They will be allowed to provide their own carburetor jets. Now that's very level and fair! Records of old didn't have roll bars tire specs. fire extinguishers ect. Do you really want to try to beat them with all the new rules. Think museums! Or count head studs! Or give everybody a trophy with their timing slip! Some people work hard, to make some things fair, for some people! Jack The vintage class is about a level playing field. There is not a person here that does not respect the mechanical creativity and accomplishments of those in that era. The pursuit of a vintage record today is still about competing fairly against records of old. They had to play with Henry's metallurgy and all its inherent foibles. And yes, they were creative and massaged that old iron into hard to believe configurations. All the things Mayf mentioned, and many more he didn't mention, have all been tried at least 70 years ago. So there is really not much new in mechanisms that has not been tried in the vintage area. What has changed is metallurgy and casting techniques. The cast iron flathead starts to bend in the middle around 300HP. It can sag .006"-.008". The old timers tried many things but the inherent weakness was always there. The French blocks were made, under license, for their military up until about the mid 80's! Their metallurgy is profoundly better. Some evidence indicates they are STEEL blocks! It is undisputed that the French foundry core technology was incredibly better than Ford's. Internal exhaust passages are far superior to a vintage flathead. There is no comparison in strength or finish of a French block to a vintage flathead. How could you have any pride in your technical ability beating a vintage record with a new steel French block! As an aside, my 1907, single cylinder, Fairbanks Morris has a ROLLER cam. Most WWII radials and V engines all had roller cams. Other than modern electronics there is very little that is new. _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net From NT788 at comcast.net Fri Aug 6 02:04:28 2010 From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:04:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <451716106.1071211.1281081868451.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> All the serious competitor's can buy their old spec. enginesB from the same licensed builder! They will be allowed to provide their own carburetor jets. Now that's very level and fair! Records of old didn't have roll bars tire specs. fire extinguishers ect. Do you really want to try to beat them with all the new rules. Think museums! Or count head studs! Or give everybody a trophy with their timing slip! Some people work hard, to make some things fair, for some people! Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirkwood" To: land-speed at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2010 11:36:15 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead The vintage class is about a level playing field. There is not a person here that does not respect the mechanical creativity and accomplishments of those in that era. The pursuit of a vintage record today is still about competing fairly against records of old. They had to play with Henry's metallurgy and all its inherent foibles. And yes, they were creative and massaged that old iron into hard to believe configurations. All the things Mayf mentioned, and many more he didn't mention, have all been tried at least 70 years ago. So there is really not much new in mechanisms that has not been tried in the vintage area. What has changed is metallurgy and casting techniques. The cast iron flathead starts to bend in the middle around 300HP. It can sag .006"-.008". The old timers tried many things but the inherent weakness was always there. The French blocks were made, under license, for their military up until about the mid 80's! Their metallurgy is profoundly better. Some evidence indicates they are STEEL blocks! It is undisputed that the French foundry core technology was incredibly better than Ford's. Internal exhaust passages are far superior to a vintage flathead. There is no comparison in strength or finish of a French block to a vintage flathead. How could you have any pride in your technical ability beating a vintage record with a new steel French block! As an aside, my 1907, single cylinder, Fairbanks Morris has a ROLLER cam. Most WWII radials and V engines all had roller cams. Other than modern electronics there is very little that is new. _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net From saltfever at comcast.net Fri Aug 6 03:00:26 2010 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 02:00:26 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead Message-ID: <264906723BE84F258BE3A7C92479AEB2@dim8100> Mayf the rules are to replicate hot rod technology that was in general use at the time. Nitrous was a German secrete. It was definitely not used in Hot Rods of that time. It wasn't even known until after the war. Vintage is about car technology of its day not about submarines, airplanes, or whatever. Lance Flatfire doesn't use a turbo in vintage class. It used a centrifugal blower (I think a Vortec). Turbos are outlawed because they were not used during the vintage era. Just about every other style of blower was used and they are allowed. I think there is confusion on ''reverse flow" vs. individual port. The intake ports are used as exhaust ports because they are cast iron and will not weaken or melt. That way you get 4 exhaust ports per side and not three. The exhaust ports and then converted to intakes by manufacture a new passage at each end of the block where the previous exhaust ports existed. Since they are intakes the materials do not have to be cast-iron or steel and can be lower temperature materials. All ports, exhaust and intake, exit the top of the block just like the flathead Cadillac. That way you get 8 ports, short and big, all with good breathing. From: drmayf (edit . . .) By the way is nitrous allowed in vintage racing? Heck, it was used by the Germans in WWII so that line of reasoning would make it allowable. It just seems screwy to me. From saltfever at comcast.net Fri Aug 6 03:21:27 2010 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 02:21:27 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead Message-ID: <621FCAC1A78249DC887327BC91124244@dim8100> Jack I'll agree that the current roll bar might be a rare handicap in some open bodied classes. However, there are plenty of vintage sedan classes where there is no effect. Currently, there is a 5 main bearing, aluminum flathead being made. FIVE main bearings! How could you call that a fair competition? All the serious competitor's can buy their old spec. engines from the same licensed builder! They will be allowed to provide their own carburetor jets. Now that's very level and fair! Records of old didn't have roll bars tire specs. fire extinguishers ect. Do you really want to try to beat them with all the new rules. Think museums! Or count head studs! Or give everybody a trophy with their timing slip! Some people work hard to make some things fair for some people! From v4gmr at yahoo.com Fri Aug 6 05:03:37 2010 From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 04:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <451716106.1071211.1281081868451.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <886146.26223.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> For Jack and others who favor blanket amnesty for migrant flatheads I have devised a short test. You only have to read one short sentence. But you do have to read it. No skimming. Try to concentrate. I will type it in all capitals to make it easy........XF CLASS CONSISTS OF ANY PRODUCTION FORD/MERCURY PASSENGER CAR V-8 FLATHEAD ENGINE......That's it. Go back and read it again if you think you need to. Now the test. If you saw or understood....FRENCH ARMY TRUCKS...anywhere in that sentence you may have a condition that should be studied. From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Aug 6 08:53:57 2010 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 07:53:57 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <886146.26223.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <886146.26223.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C5C2205.8050507@mayfco.com> Rich! Ok, I got it! So every motor in this class is exactly as it rolled out the door in an old ford car! It say PRODUCTION engine. Not block. ENGINE! So it should have the exact cam, the exact lifters, the exact heads, and so on to be a PRODUCTION ENGINE. I can live with that. So no more high compression aluminum heads, no releiving of the blocks, no reverse port technology, and so on. The rules do not say PRODUCTIOON BLOCK. It says PRODUCTION ENGINE. Now can you read? mayf Rich Fox wrote: >For Jack and others who favor blanket amnesty for migrant flatheads I have >devised a short test. You only have to read one short sentence. But you do >have to read it. No skimming. Try to concentrate. I will type it in all >capitals to make it easy........XF CLASS CONSISTS OF ANY PRODUCTION >FORD/MERCURY PASSENGER CAR V-8 FLATHEAD ENGINE......That's it. Go back and >read it again if you think you need to. Now the test. If you saw or >understood....FRENCH ARMY TRUCKS...anywhere in that sentence you may have a >condition that should be studied. From dwarner230 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 6 10:07:30 2010 From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Grill covers in Alt class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <927578.2547.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Holes are OK, do what JD does and you will be on your way to LSR fame and fortune. Well, not the fortune part too much. DW --- On Thu, 8/5/10, J.D. Tone wrote: From: J.D. Tone Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Grill covers in Alt class To: "greg meyers" , "land Speed List" Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 8:38 PM "Bumpers, grilles and front lights----MAY-----be removed and the opening created------MAY----be filled or covered. As I read it, and have done it in the past, slots or holes will be allowed as long as the others changes to make you legal for the class are done. As learned in NASCAR and other venues the more the air is forced around the body the faster one seems to go...Good Luck Subject: [Land-speed] Grill covers in Alt class > Wondering if grill covers in Alt classes can have holes or slots in them and > still be considered grill covers.....We have overheated in the past with > full grill covers and a full air dam. The car now has a different motor and > hasn't overheated yet, but I haven't run it very long under a load either. _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/dwarner230 at yahoo.com From NT788 at comcast.net Fri Aug 6 11:30:21 2010 From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:30:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <1594270695.1086044.1281114431961.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <949773672.1087175.1281115821918.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> So Spec. engines it is? Or just pure honest good people having fun?B P roabition made bootleggers! B Why isn,t a timing slip good enough for your antique, it always looks and sounds good in a museum! In an English foxhunt the fox didn't make the rules. The aristocrats did to help the fox. IB say develop the flathead and lets beat some Chevys.That is if your a flathead lover! Jack Costella ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirkwood" To: land-speed at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 6, 2010 2:21:27 AM Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead Jack I'll agree that the current roll bar might be a rare handicap in some open bodied classes. However, there are plenty of vintage sedan classes where there is no effect. Currently, there is a 5 main bearing, aluminum flathead being made. FIVE main bearings! How could you call that a fair competition? All the serious competitor's can buy their old spec. engines from the same licensed builder! They will be allowed to provide their own carburetor jets. Now that's very level and fair! Records of old didn't have roll bars tire specs. fire extinguishers ect. Do you really want to try to beat them with all the new rules. Think museums! Or count head studs! Or give everybody a trophy with their timing slip! Some people work hard to make some things fair for some people! _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net From v4gmr at yahoo.com Fri Aug 6 13:48:32 2010 From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 12:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <949773672.1087175.1281115821918.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <875829.25480.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Jack. You got it. No body is stopping you or anyone from building a French flathead and running in E or D classes against SBC motors and whatever, and beating them if you can. When a Conservative sees a rule he disagrees with, he will probably find some other class he fits. The true Liberal will lobby to have the class changed so that everyone else fits him. --- On Fri, 8/6/10, NT788 at comcast.net wrote: From: NT788 at comcast.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead To: "Kirkwood" Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 10:30 AM So Spec. engines it is? Or just pure honest good people having fun?B P roabition made bootleggers! B Why isn,t a timing slip good enough for your antique, it always looks and sounds good in a museum! In an English foxhunt the fox didn't make the rules. The aristocrats did to help the fox. IB say develop the flathead and lets beat some Chevys.That is if your a flathead lover! Jack Costella ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirkwood" To: land-speed at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 6, 2010 2:21:27 AM Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead Jack I'll agree that the current roll bar might be a rare handicap in some open bodied classes. However, there are plenty of vintage sedan classes where there is no effect. Currently, there is a 5 main bearing, aluminum flathead being made. FIVE main bearings! How could you call that a fair competition? All the serious competitor's can buy their old spec. engines from the same licensed builder! They will be allowed to provide their own carburetor jets. Now that's very level and fair! Records of old didn't have roll bars tire specs. fire extinguishers ect. Do you really want to try to beat them with all the new rules. Think museums! Or count head studs! Or give everybody a trophy with their timing slip! Some people work hard to make some things fair for some people! _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/v4gmr at yahoo.com From v4gmr at yahoo.com Fri Aug 6 14:08:33 2010 From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 13:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Re: Ford Flathead Message-ID: <961201.85183.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Rich Fox wrote: From: Rich Fox Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead To: drmayf at mayfco.com Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 12:52 PM I think if you go to the rule book and use your reading skill you will appreciate the ludicrousness of your position. I personally will not be lured into wasting any more time on it. --- On Fri, 8/6/10, drmayf wrote: From: drmayf Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead To: "Rich Fox" Cc: "Kirkwood" , NT788 at comcast.net, land-speed at autox.team.net Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 7:53 AM Rich! Ok, I got it! So every motor in this class is exactly as it rolled out the door in an old ford car! It say PRODUCTION engine. Not block. ENGINE! So it should have the exact cam, the exact lifters, the exact heads, and so on to be a PRODUCTION ENGINE. I can live with that. So no more high compression aluminum heads, no releiving of the blocks, no reverse port technology, and so on. The rules do not say PRODUCTIOON BLOCK. It says PRODUCTION ENGINE. Now can you read? mayf Rich Fox wrote: > For Jack and others who favor blanket amnesty for migrant flatheads I have > devised a short test. You only have to read one short sentence. But you do > have to read it. No skimming. Try to concentrate. I will type it in all > capitals to make it easy........XF CLASS CONSISTS OF ANY PRODUCTION > FORD/MERCURY PASSENGER CAR V-8 FLATHEAD ENGINE......That's it. Go back and > read it again if you think you need to. Now the test. If you saw or > understood....FRENCH ARMY TRUCKS...anywhere in that sentence you may have a > condition that should be studied. > From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Fri Aug 6 14:38:46 2010 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 14:38:46 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Re: Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <961201.85183.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <961201.85183.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sure glad I just time them GB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Fox" To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 2:08 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Re: Ford Flathead > --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Rich Fox wrote: > > > From: Rich Fox > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > To: drmayf at mayfco.com > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 12:52 PM > > > > > > > I think if you go to the rule book and use your reading skill you will > appreciate the ludicrousness of your position. I personally will not be > lured > into wasting any more time on it. > > --- On Fri, 8/6/10, drmayf wrote: > > > From: drmayf > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > To: "Rich Fox" > Cc: "Kirkwood" , NT788 at comcast.net, > land-speed at autox.team.net > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 7:53 AM > > > Rich! Ok, I got it! So every motor in this class is exactly as it rolled > out > the door in an old ford car! It say PRODUCTION engine. Not block. ENGINE! > So > it should have the exact cam, the exact lifters, the exact heads, and so > on to > be a PRODUCTION ENGINE. I can live with that. So no more high > compression > aluminum heads, no releiving of the blocks, no reverse port technology, > and > so on. The rules do not say PRODUCTIOON BLOCK. It says PRODUCTION ENGINE. > Now > can you read? > > mayf > Rich Fox wrote: > >> For Jack and others who favor blanket amnesty for migrant flatheads I >> have >> devised a short test. You only have to read one short sentence. But you >> do >> have to read it. No skimming. Try to concentrate. I will type it in all >> capitals to make it easy........XF CLASS CONSISTS OF ANY PRODUCTION >> FORD/MERCURY PASSENGER CAR V-8 FLATHEAD ENGINE......That's it. Go back >> and >> read it again if you think you need to. Now the test. If you saw or >> understood....FRENCH ARMY TRUCKS...anywhere in that sentence you may have >> a >> condition that should be studied. >> > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com From dwarner230 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 6 16:17:11 2010 From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Re: Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <134542.46469.qm@web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Good response Rich. High five!!!! DW --- On Fri, 8/6/10, speedtimer at beyondbb.com wrote: From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: Re: Ford Flathead To: "Rich Fox" , Land-speed at autox.team.net Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 1:38 PM Sure glad I just time them GB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Fox" To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 2:08 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Re: Ford Flathead > --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Rich Fox wrote: > > > From: Rich Fox > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > To: drmayf at mayfco.com > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 12:52 PM > > > > > > > I think if you go to the rule book and use your reading skill you will > appreciate the ludicrousness of your position. I personally will not be lured > into wasting any more time on it. > > --- On Fri, 8/6/10, drmayf wrote: > > > From: drmayf > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > To: "Rich Fox" > Cc: "Kirkwood" , NT788 at comcast.net, > land-speed at autox.team.net > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 7:53 AM > > > Rich! Ok, I got it! So every motor in this class is exactly as it rolled out > the door in an old ford car! It say PRODUCTION engine. Not block. ENGINE! So > it should have the exact cam, the exact lifters, the exact heads, and so on to > be a PRODUCTION ENGINE. I can live with that. So no more high compression > aluminum heads, no releiving of the blocks, no reverse port technology, and > so on. The rules do not say PRODUCTIOON BLOCK. It says PRODUCTION ENGINE. Now > can you read? > > mayf > Rich Fox wrote: > >> For Jack and others who favor blanket amnesty for migrant flatheads I have >> devised a short test. You only have to read one short sentence. But you do >> have to read it. No skimming. Try to concentrate. I will type it in all >> capitals to make it easy........XF CLASS CONSISTS OF ANY PRODUCTION >> FORD/MERCURY PASSENGER CAR V-8 FLATHEAD ENGINE......That's it. Go back and >> read it again if you think you need to. Now the test. If you saw or >> understood....FRENCH ARMY TRUCKS...anywhere in that sentence you may have a >> condition that should be studied. >> > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/speedtimer at beyondbb.com _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/dwarner230 at yahoo.com From bobbyhotrods at comcast.net Fri Aug 6 18:36:32 2010 From: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (bobbyhotrods at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 00:36:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Land-speed] bounce In-Reply-To: <312600916.849547.1281141060772.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1220065582.849664.1281141392772.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Alright all you grouchy old farts, I can't think of a better bunch to bounce this query off. I finally ran my roadster last weekend at Loring, and had a great time btw. Surprisingly, there were no major issues and the car performed better than the guy making the decisions. But braking after the lights resulted in the front tires bouncing. The more brake, the more bounce. The front is dampened with friction shocks, and I'm pretty sure I replaced the rubber with fresh sheeting when I built the car some years back. Yeah, I can tighten them, but they weren't loose. Does any lister have any experience on what works best with these things? McMaster Carr has a variety of rubber sheeting, and I can put any finish necessary on the "washers", or even on the rubber I suppose. Even a good guess would be appreciated, thanks, BJ From neil at dbelltech.com Fri Aug 6 19:25:27 2010 From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 18:25:27 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] bounce In-Reply-To: <1220065582.849664.1281141392772.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1220065582.849664.1281141392772.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <37C1FE1B30354CF781801DE1B2F27313@tiger> BJ; Check to see if you have toe-out as the front wheels rise. This is the same as the nose dipping under deceleration. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:36 PM To: "Landspeed" Subject: [Land-speed] bounce > Alright all you grouchy old farts, I can't think of a better bunch to > bounce this query off. > I finally ran my roadster last weekend at Loring, and had a great time > btw. Surprisingly, there were no major issues and the car performed better > than the guy making the decisions. > But braking after the lights resulted in the front tires bouncing. The > more brake, the more bounce. > The front is dampened with friction shocks, and I'm pretty sure I replaced > the rubber with fresh sheeting when I built the car some years back. Yeah, > I can tighten them, but they weren't loose. > Does any lister have any experience on what works best with these things? > McMaster Carr has a variety of rubber sheeting, and I can put any finish > necessary on the "washers", or even on the rubber I suppose. Even a good > guess would be appreciated, thanks, BJ > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/neil at dbelltech.com From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Fri Aug 6 20:56:27 2010 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 19:56:27 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <886146.26223.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <886146.26223.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C5CCB5B.4040301@wildblue.net> XF CLASS CONSISTS OF ANY PRODUCTION FORD/MERCURY PASSENGER CAR V-8 FLATHEAD ENGINE Hell, even I can understand that. Thanks for the quick glimpse, of clear, rational thought Rich. Rich, now if I'm right, a replica is a replica. Correct? I don't see it as a big deal because there will always be a small number of people who are incapable of understanding concepts like Duty and Honor. Honesty is something their mental handicap can not possibility understand. Back to my hole, Bryan Rich Fox wrote: > For Jack and others who favor blanket amnesty for migrant flatheads I have > devised a short test. You only have to read one short sentence. But you do > have to read it. No skimming. Try to concentrate. I will type it in all > capitals to make it easy........XF CLASS CONSISTS OF ANY PRODUCTION > FORD/MERCURY PASSENGER CAR V-8 FLATHEAD ENGINE......That's it. Go back and > read it again if you think you need to. Now the test. If you saw or > understood....FRENCH ARMY TRUCKS...anywhere in that sentence you may have a > condition that should be studied. From 23.weldon at comcast.net Fri Aug 6 23:05:05 2010 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 22:05:05 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead References: <886146.26223.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4C5CCB5B.4040301@wildblue.net> Message-ID: <34B1846A4B3647479B8EFBF4C4C63707@edc2750afa5a84> OK guys.... As long as we're into the "much ado about nothing" mode here comes the kind of question that you ought to expect from Ed Weldon. Assuming here that only the block needs to be a production original how much of that original engine block must be left for it to still be considered a production flathead? Section 4.N offers some general philosophy on the subject; but it is generally not applicable to the flathead engine classes being less restrictive. Consider in the world of today's 3d CNC profiling methods combined with new 3d scanning technology it's entirely possible to saw a stock flathead block in half and profile the entire inside to a uniform wall thickness of, say, 3/8". This shell could cover a high strength internal structure considerably more robust than the original. This is not as crazy as it sounds. I'm not sure about such an approach working with a flathead that had the exhaust running though the block like the stocker. I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that. But a top exhaust XF class block or one with an overhead valve head (XXF), especially where water cooling in the block is not needed? ...... That may not be as crazy as it sounds. Make the internal structure out of a precision assembly of machined ductile iron castings (good CTE match to the cast iron shell) and maybe utilizing oil cooling in the block with a big dry sump system and suitably light Mobil1 Racing oil. As long as this project would be starting in a foundry you might as well add a hefty fully enveloping crankcase girdle. Oh yeah, BTW, make a little more room for connecting rod clearance to the block and larger cam bearing bosses. No talk here of 5 main bearings. Not sure they could be big enough to do anything good what with the close cylinder spacing. But the principle main bearing support could be in designed into the girdle; so maybe that's possible. Back to the original premise........How much of the original engine must be left for it to still be an "XF" or an "XXF". Maybe some attention to this subject is appropriate before someone with the same level of resources that Ron Main put into the original Flatfire engine tries what I suggest. Ed Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Savage" To: "Rich Fox" Cc: ; "Kirkwood" ; Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead > XF CLASS CONSISTS OF ANY PRODUCTION > FORD/MERCURY PASSENGER CAR V-8 FLATHEAD ENGINE From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Sat Aug 7 00:11:03 2010 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 23:11:03 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] [Fwd: Fw: Penetrating Oils Compared] Message-ID: <4C5CF8F7.5090505@wildblue.net> Subject: Fw: Penetrating Oils Compared > > >> >> Penetrating Oils Compared >> >> Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrates for break out >> torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a subjective >> test >> of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque >> required to >> remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment. >> >> Penetrating oil ..... Average load >> >> None ..................... 516 pounds >> >> WD-40 .................. 238 pounds >> >> PB Blaster ..............214 pounds >> >> Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds >> >> Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds >> >> ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds >> >> The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic >> transmission >> fluid and acetone. >> >> Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one >> particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now >> use it >> with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as >> good >> as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price. From saltrat at pahrump.com Sat Aug 7 10:07:46 2010 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 09:07:46 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <34B1846A4B3647479B8EFBF4C4C63707@edc2750afa5a84> References: <886146.26223.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4C5CCB5B.4040301@wildblue.net> <34B1846A4B3647479B8EFBF4C4C63707@edc2750afa5a84> Message-ID: <20100807160636.C8533187645@autox.team.net> Thank you everybody for an informative and entertaining dialogue on the Flathead Ford/Mercury engine. I know a lot more than I did previously and hope that nobody got too upset as I notice a lot of sensitivity on this subject. Skip From dwarner230 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 7 10:40:03 2010 From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 09:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <20100807160636.C8533187645@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <591002.6218.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> No sensitivity on my part. As Sgt. Joe Friday used to say ... "Just the facts Mamne" DW --- On Sat, 8/7/10, Skip Higginbotham wrote: From: Skip Higginbotham Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead To: "23weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>, "Bryan Savage" , "Rich Fox" Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net, "Kirkwood" , NT788 at comcast.net Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 9:07 AM Thank you everybody for an informative and entertaining dialogue on the Flathead Ford/Mercury engine. I know a lot more than I did previously and hope that nobody got too upset as I notice a lot of sensitivity on this subject. Skip _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/dwarner230 at yahoo.com From NT788 at comcast.net Sat Aug 7 12:10:06 2010 From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 18:10:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead In-Reply-To: <591002.6218.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1480659437.1125576.1281204606093.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Jack says ; Just opinions and information! ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan warner" To: "23weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>, "Bryan Savage" , "Rich Fox" , "Skip Higginbotham" Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net, "Kirkwood" , NT788 at comcast.net Sent: Saturday, August 7, 2010 9:40:03 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead No sensitivity on my part. B As Sgt. Joe Friday used to say ... "Just the facts Mamne" B DW B --- On Sat, 8/7/10, Skip Higginbotham wrote: From: Skip Higginbotham Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford Flathead To: "23weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>, "Bryan Savage" , "Rich Fox" Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net, "Kirkwood" , NT788 at comcast.net Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 9:07 AM Thank you everybody for an informative and entertaining dialogue on the Flathead Ford/Mercury engine. I know a lot more than I did previously and hope that nobody got too upset as I notice a lot of sensitivity on this subject. Skip _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/dwarner230 at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/nt788 at comcast.net From drmayf at mayfco.com Sun Aug 8 19:14:22 2010 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 18:14:22 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Disaster strikes! Message-ID: <4C5F566E.7030500@mayfco.com> Here of late, I have been experiencing some serious computer issues. So today, I decided to see if I could find the cause. I ran a program to check for malicious software hiding in cookies and such. None found. The I ran a Norton Internet Security system scan (900,000 files, ouch!) with no issues. So then after heming and hawing I decided to do a disk cleanup. So I open the program files and went to accessories. I selected disk cleanup. I let it run though the C drive and it found that it coul dclean around 237 MB of dsk space up. So I looked over it carefully (but not carefully enough) and I cehcked a box that said Win ME/Installation files.. Gulped and hit the button. Near instant disaster. after a second or two, the screen blinked and everything that was not native XP disappeared! Literally. That included all of my excel files I developed for the web site I have, all of the speciality programs for various folk, all WOrd files are gone, all files under the my douments are gone: all the pdf files I have collected for the last 10 years... Even at that as the screen blinked, I had hit cancel hoping it would reverse the file catastrophe that had happened. Unfortunately now. The blasted thing also did nto creat a system restore point before doing the dastardly deed either. Oh, my email client also disappeared which had my 10 years of collected tiger, alpine, and race car stuff on it. If I didn't live on a ground floor I would jump out the window. I am going to continue to recover this, how, I do not know yet, but if any of you do, please shoot me a note and tell me how. Also, since my address book and everything else went out with teh email client, then how about those of you who have coresponde with me ove the years, drop me a short email so I can add you back into a addy book. Anybody I was working with, please send my your addy for sure! Dan NIcoson, send me your two email addy's? Dave Adin? What a mess, lol... mayf From saltracer at awwwsome.com Sun Aug 8 19:51:09 2010 From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 18:51:09 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Subject: [Land-speed] Disaster strikes! References: <4C5F566E.7030500@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <4C5F5F0D.000001.04312@TOM-PC> Restore to an earlier date will correct it I think. Tom [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of stampa_girl_line_en.gif] From neil at dbelltech.com Sun Aug 8 19:57:22 2010 From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 18:57:22 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Disaster strikes! In-Reply-To: <4C5F566E.7030500@mayfco.com> References: <4C5F566E.7030500@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <4EEFD7D3537C401BB805F0345CE05598@tiger> Mayf; Yup, a real mess-- I guess it's too late to back up the files. :( I hope you can recover those that you lost. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -------------------------------------------------- From: "drmayf" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 6:14 PM To: ; ; ; ; ; Subject: [Land-speed] Disaster strikes! > Here of late, I have been experiencing some serious computer issues. So > today, I decided to see if I could find the cause. I ran a program to > check for malicious software hiding in cookies and such. None found. The I > ran a Norton Internet Security system scan (900,000 files, ouch!) with > no issues. So then after heming and hawing I decided to do a disk > cleanup. So I open the program files and went to accessories. I selected > disk cleanup. I let it run though the C drive and it found that it coul > dclean around 237 MB of dsk space up. So I looked over it carefully (but > not carefully enough) and I cehcked a box that said Win ME/Installation > files.. Gulped and hit the button. Near instant disaster. after a second > or two, the screen blinked and everything that was not native XP > disappeared! Literally. That included all of my excel files I developed > for the web site I have, all of the speciality programs for various folk, > all WOrd files are gone, all files under the my douments are gone: all the > pdf files I have collected for the last 10 years... Even at that as the > screen blinked, I had hit cancel hoping it would reverse the file > catastrophe that had happened. Unfortunately now. The blasted thing also > did nto creat a system restore point before doing the dastardly deed > either. Oh, my email client also disappeared which had my 10 years of > collected tiger, alpine, and race car stuff on it. If I didn't live on a > ground floor I would jump out the window. > > I am going to continue to recover this, how, I do not know yet, but if > any of you do, please shoot me a note and tell me how. Also, since my > address book and everything else went out with teh email client, then how > about those of you who have coresponde with me ove the years, drop me a > short email so I can add you back into a addy book. Anybody I was > working with, please send my your addy for sure! > Dan NIcoson, send me your two email addy's? Dave Adin? > What a mess, lol... > > mayf > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/neil at dbelltech.com From bob at arrowracing.org Mon Aug 9 11:16:45 2010 From: bob at arrowracing.org (Bob Williams) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:16:45 -0400 Subject: [Land-speed] RE land speed racers In-Reply-To: <4C5CF8F7.5090505@wildblue.net> Message-ID: SPEED WEEK THREE ROOMS ARE AVILABLE AUGUST 13 to 19 at the Montego Bay . Pleas contact Bob Williams by E mail .... bob at arrowracing.org Thanks Regards Bob Williams Motorcycle Streamliner 1150 -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Bryan Savage Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 2:11 AM To: List Land Speed Subject: [Land-speed] [Fwd: Fw: Penetrating Oils Compared] Subject: Fw: Penetrating Oils Compared > > >> >> Penetrating Oils Compared >> >> Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrates for break out >> torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a subjective >> test >> of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque >> required to >> remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment. >> >> Penetrating oil ..... Average load >> >> None ..................... 516 pounds >> >> WD-40 .................. 238 pounds >> >> PB Blaster ..............214 pounds >> >> Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds >> >> Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds >> >> ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds >> >> The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic >> transmission >> fluid and acetone. >> >> Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one >> particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now >> use it >> with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as >> good >> as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price. _______________________________________________ Land-speed at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/bob at arrowracing.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 02:35:00 From fosterap at flash.net Wed Aug 11 20:11:31 2010 From: fosterap at flash.net (Jerry Foster) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 21:11:31 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] TEST Message-ID: <469B2305F70B4D07805229E78170367E@blackhp> I managed to fall off the LSR list. Am I back on now? Hello? Hello? See everybody on the salt on Saturday. Jerry in Dallas From neil at dbelltech.com Wed Aug 11 20:47:57 2010 From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:47:57 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] TEST In-Reply-To: <469B2305F70B4D07805229E78170367E@blackhp> References: <469B2305F70B4D07805229E78170367E@blackhp> Message-ID: <6753A6C4EAF8495FA725DF54E2CF69DA@tiger> You're ON, Jerry! Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Foster" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:11 PM To: "LSR" Subject: [Land-speed] TEST > I managed to fall off the LSR list. Am I back on now? Hello? Hello? > > See everybody on the salt on Saturday. > > Jerry in Dallas > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/neil at dbelltech.com From Rick at RBMotorsports.com Thu Aug 12 07:59:32 2010 From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:59:32 -0400 Subject: [Land-speed] TEST References: <469B2305F70B4D07805229E78170367E@blackhp> Message-ID: <001701cb3a26$984b48b0$6501a8c0@Rick> Safe trip Jerry From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Thu Aug 12 08:28:18 2010 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:28:18 -0400 Subject: [Land-speed] We're here Message-ID: Just for the sake of confirming that this place is open, Nancy and I are in Wendover and leaving in a few minutes for the Salt. We got here Tuesday mid-diy, spent yesterday sprinkling about 5 dozen porta-potties around the 30 square miles of the racing area, and today go out to watch the fun as hoi polloi beings to arrive. Land's End was to open for racers to arrive this morning at 8, with registration and such opening at 10. Some inspecting will start today, and tomorrow will be the big day for that. Then Saturday morning -- Drivers Meeting at 10 or thereabouts, cruise down the courses after that, and racing begins once the course ride and rookie orientation have finished after the meeting. About 500 pre-entries, including 150 bikes and the rest of them those 4-wheel things -- unh, whaddaya call 'em, cars? Yeah, that's it. The salt is pretty danged good. The wettest area isn't wet at all, and that's in the pits. The access road has some soft/dry spots about 1- 1 1/2 miles from Land's End, but the rest of the place is fine. The courses are good, and turnouts HAVE been made this year. Three courses once again -- long and two short (the second short is referred to as the special course, not because only folks from the short bus get to use it, but because otherwise it'd be confusing to say "first short course" or "second short course". They're identical. Enough for now. I've posted some photos on landracing.com, and will do so more as the week continues. See you later, crocodile. Jon a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim From mark at bradakis.com Fri Aug 13 18:57:03 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:57:03 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Quick note Message-ID: <4C65E9DF.8040002@bradakis.com> A reminder to folks that the email list does not allow photos to be sent. If you are out on the salt this coming week and want to share, http://www.team.net/forums does have the land-speed section. mjb. From saltfevr at q.com Fri Aug 13 20:25:06 2010 From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 20:25:06 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek & Salt Talks Message-ID: Off to SW as Course Steward once again and hope to see many of you near the 5 mile long course or Salt Talks! Hey save me a Pasty! As Glen or Wester might wrestle for the last one! Go fast,be safe,have fun! Tom Shannon Magna, Utah From pookie at dslextreme.com Sat Aug 21 09:49:58 2010 From: pookie at dslextreme.com (pookie @dslextreme.com) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 08:49:58 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number Message-ID: Anyone on the list recall Dr. Mayfs race car number? Thanks for your time, Mike R. From neil at dbelltech.com Sat Aug 21 11:02:39 2010 From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:02:39 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50A8151E0E5C4D2A90424AE6E5E405BE@tiger> It is 1542; I think he will be at WOS next month. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -------------------------------------------------- From: "pookie @dslextreme.com" Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:49 AM To: Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number > Anyone on the list recall Dr. Mayfs race car number? Thanks for your > time, > Mike R. > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/neil at dbelltech.com From saltrat at pahrump.com Sat Aug 21 11:58:37 2010 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:58:37 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100821175744.251C918766E@autox.team.net> At 08:49 AM 8/21/2010, pookie @dslextreme.com wrote: >Anyone on the list recall Dr. Mayfs race car number? Thanks for your time, >Mike R. >_______________________________________________ 1542 C/FMS Skip From saltrat at pahrump.com Sat Aug 21 12:01:50 2010 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 11:01:50 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number Message-ID: <20100821180057.6DDD618767F@autox.team.net> At 08:49 AM 8/21/2010, pookie @dslextreme.com wrote: >Anyone on the list recall Dr. Mayfs race car number? Thanks for your time, >Mike R. >_______________________________________________ 1542 C/BFMS Skip (Forgot about the turbo) From pookie at dslextreme.com Sat Aug 21 19:44:22 2010 From: pookie at dslextreme.com (pookie @dslextreme.com) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 18:44:22 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number In-Reply-To: <4c7013ca.2371730a.1a68.62c4SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <4c7013ca.2371730a.1a68.62c4SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 8/21/10, Skip Higginbotham wrote: > > At 08:49 AM 8/21/2010, pookie @dslextreme.com wrote: > >> Anyone on the list recall Dr. Mayfs race car number? Thanks for your >> time, >> Mike R. >> _______________________________________________ >> > > > > 1542 C/FMS > > Skip > list : Thank you all for the info, Mike R, From saltfever at comcast.net Sun Aug 22 14:27:56 2010 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 13:27:56 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number Message-ID: I never noticed the F (fuel) part of it before. Leave it to Mayf to cut through the bureaucracy and find an efficient way to race. No tank inspections and sealing to worry about and you run with gas from the neighborhood station instead of expensive race gas. :-) From: Skip Higginbotham 1542 C/FMS From saltrat at pahrump.com Sun Aug 22 21:45:06 2010 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:45:06 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100823034414.33840187644@autox.team.net> Even better if you run E85.......think about it. Blown Fuel Modified Sports.......... Skip At 01:27 PM 8/22/2010, Kirkwood wrote: >I never noticed the F (fuel) part of it before. Leave it to Mayf to cut >through the bureaucracy and find an efficient way to race. No tank >inspections and sealing to worry about and you run with gas from the >neighborhood station instead of expensive race gas. :-) > > > >From: Skip Higginbotham > > 1542 C/FMS From drmayf at mayfco.com Sun Aug 22 21:47:48 2010 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:47:48 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C71EF64.8080904@mayfco.com> Well, it is almost that simple. The red hat speed is 260 mph and I wont be going that fast ever. But the class was open when I started so I decided to go with the fuel class. Yeah, I used a 100 octane fuel available at the Rebel gas stations until I killed some pistons. Then I got smart and started using some of Ricks A8C gasoline. Nothing inexpensive about it for sure. But it works well. And I will fill my small drum with it at WOS for here at home in the off season running. But basically what you said is correct. mayf On 8/22/2010 1:27 PM, Kirkwood wrote: > I never noticed the F (fuel) part of it before. Leave it to Mayf to cut > through the bureaucracy and find an efficient way to race. No tank > inspections and sealing to worry about and you run with gas from the > neighborhood station instead of expensive race gas. :-) > > > > From: Skip Higginbotham > > 1542 C/FMS > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/drmayf at mayfco.com From drmayf at mayfco.com Sun Aug 22 21:48:20 2010 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:48:20 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C71EF84.1060309@mayfco.com> Well, it is almost that simple. The red hat speed is 260 mph and I wont be going that fast ever. But the class was open when I started so I decided to go with the fuel class. Yeah, I used a 100 octane fuel available at the Rebel gas stations until I killed some pistons. Then I got smart and started using some of Ricks A8C gasoline. Nothing inexpensive about it for sure. But it works well. And I will fill my small drum with it at WOS for here at home in the off season running. But basically what you said is correct. mayf On 8/22/2010 1:27 PM, Kirkwood wrote: > I never noticed the F (fuel) part of it before. Leave it to Mayf to cut > through the bureaucracy and find an efficient way to race. No tank > inspections and sealing to worry about and you run with gas from the > neighborhood station instead of expensive race gas. :-) > > > > From: Skip Higginbotham > > 1542 C/FMS > _______________________________________________ From mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com Mon Aug 23 06:51:51 2010 From: mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (Meierle, Michael D (Mike)) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 07:51:51 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number In-Reply-To: <4C71EF84.1060309@mayfco.com> References: <4C71EF84.1060309@mayfco.com> Message-ID: I thought Mayf's car was a Turbo/Blown Car? Or was that a prior incarnation? Mike Meierle #847 F/BMMP Gear Grinders/Sidewinders SCTA-BNI/ECTA ECTA Record Holder/Bonneville Record Holder -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Larry Mayfield Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:48 PM To: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number Well, it is almost that simple. The red hat speed is 260 mph and I wont be going that fast ever. But the class was open when I started so I decided to go with the fuel class. Yeah, I used a 100 octane fuel available at the Rebel gas stations until I killed some pistons. Then I got smart and started using some of Ricks A8C gasoline. Nothing inexpensive about it for sure. But it works well. And I will fill my small drum with it at WOS for here at home in the off season running. But basically what you said is correct. mayf On 8/22/2010 1:27 PM, Kirkwood wrote: > I never noticed the F (fuel) part of it before. Leave it to Mayf to cut > through the bureaucracy and find an efficient way to race. No tank > inspections and sealing to worry about and you run with gas from the > neighborhood station instead of expensive race gas. :-) > > > > From: Skip Higginbotham > > 1542 C/FMS > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ From saltrat at pahrump.com Mon Aug 23 12:08:28 2010 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:08:28 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number In-Reply-To: References: <4C71EF84.1060309@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <20100823180731.6819518764D@autox.team.net> Mike, It is, it is!! I forgot to put the "B" in the number at first. I thought that I had fixed it but I guess not.........It has a turbo. Sorry about the confusion. Skip At 05:51 AM 8/23/2010, Meierle, Michael D (Mike) wrote: >I thought Mayf's car was a Turbo/Blown Car? Or was that a prior incarnation? > >Mike Meierle >#847 F/BMMP >Gear Grinders/Sidewinders >SCTA-BNI/ECTA >ECTA Record Holder/Bonneville Record Holder > >-----Original Message----- >From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net >[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Larry Mayfield >Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:48 PM >To: land-speed at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Dr. Mayfs' race car number > > Well, it is almost that simple. The red hat speed is 260 mph and I >wont be going that fast ever. But the class was open when I started so >I decided to go with the fuel class. Yeah, I used a 100 octane fuel >available at the Rebel gas stations until I killed some pistons. Then I >got smart and started using some of Ricks A8C gasoline. Nothing >inexpensive about it for sure. But it works well. And I will fill my >small drum with it at WOS for here at home in the off season running. >But basically what you said is correct. From 23.weldon at comcast.net Tue Aug 24 11:31:24 2010 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 10:31:24 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Video borescopes References: <4C71EF84.1060309@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <91DE546E08F84060B29BA471F26BC60A@edc2750afa5a84> Video borescopes are getting pretty nice. Kinda pricey for most of us. But if your racing budget for motors is starting to run into the high 5 figure range something like this may be a good investment. .....especially if there's a nitro addiction present. http://www.gradientlens.com/RigidVideoBorescopes.asp I have no interest in this company. Just something I ran into on the internet Ed Weldon From mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com Wed Aug 25 07:40:13 2010 From: mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (Meierle, Michael D (Mike)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:40:13 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] www.youdrivewhat.com Message-ID: No LSR Cars here, but some imagination at work for sure. Some of it may have been artificially induced. http://www.youdrivewhat.com/ Mike Meierle #847 F/BMMP Gear Grinders/Sidewinders SCTA-BNI/ECTA ECTA Record Holder/Bonneville Record Holder From jimwebb at nutsracing.com Sat Aug 28 08:23:28 2010 From: jimwebb at nutsracing.com (Jim Webb) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:23:28 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] SpeedWeek Was Excellent Message-ID: OK, it wasn't so excellent for our personal effort, but SpeedWeek was run so smoothly and efficiently, that it was amazing. SCTA deserves sincere congratulations for such a good job running the show. The addition of the Combo course really changed the game. Thanks to all the volunteers at SCTA-BNI for a most excellent event! Jim Webb Chock Full o' Nuts A/PP B/PP C/PP D/PP ?/FL From neil at dbelltech.com Sat Aug 28 08:54:04 2010 From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 07:54:04 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] SpeedWeek Was Excellent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43AE0E4E41AC4642BB331204F4CD6C23@tiger> My sentiments, too, Jim. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Webb" Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 7:23 AM To: "'landspeed at autox.team.net'" Subject: [Land-speed] SpeedWeek Was Excellent > OK, it wasn't so excellent for our personal effort, but SpeedWeek was run > so > smoothly and efficiently, that it was amazing. SCTA deserves sincere > congratulations for such a good job running the show. The addition of the > Combo course really changed the game. > > Thanks to all the volunteers at SCTA-BNI for a most excellent event! > > > > Jim Webb > > Chock Full o' Nuts > > A/PP B/PP C/PP D/PP ?/FL From drmayf at mayfco.com Sun Aug 29 10:00:28 2010 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 09:00:28 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] OT: My computer drash Message-ID: <4C7A841C.5060707@mayfco.com> I took the hard drive to the drive experts and had them take a look at it. Their comment was..."it's gone..all gone..." But, am persevering and I purchased some software to let me scan for deleted files. I ran that program and found 63,000 deleted files and when I told it to recover the deleted items, 14,000 or so were recovered. Unfortunately not one single one could be opened and had significant data in it. Most were just headers. But, before all teh stuff hit the fan, I had maybe 25 GB of stuff on this120 GB drive. Some how, the amount of free space has dwindled to approx 57 GB. When I use disk frag to analyze the disk and, no I haven't defragged yet, I see that most of the disk has lots of stuff on it. When I use the recovery console I still cannot get to the area where the stuff seems to be. So, I seem to recall looking at a freeware program that would scan the disk and then let me put the cursor over a section of that scan and it would tell me what was there. Have any of you heard of anything like that? Or know of a program that will let me look at the entire disk surface? hopefully, one of you do... mayf From neil at dbelltech.com Sun Aug 29 12:01:05 2010 From: neil at dbelltech.com (Neil Albaugh) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:01:05 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] OT: My computer drash In-Reply-To: <4C7A841C.5060707@mayfco.com> References: <4C7A841C.5060707@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <56A15FAC115C4A5989AB8A3FBA54646A@tiger> Mayf; No, I haven't seen a program like that but if you find one I'd like to know about it. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Mayfield" Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:00 AM To: ; Subject: [Land-speed] OT: My computer drash > I took the hard drive to the drive experts and had them take a look at > it. Their comment was..."it's gone..all gone..." But, am persevering and > I purchased some software to let me scan for deleted files. I ran that > program and found 63,000 deleted files and when I told it to recover the > deleted items, 14,000 or so were recovered. Unfortunately not one single > one could be opened and had significant data in it. Most were just > headers. > > But, before all teh stuff hit the fan, I had maybe 25 GB of stuff on > this120 GB drive. Some how, the amount of free space has dwindled to > approx 57 GB. When I use disk frag to analyze the disk and, no I haven't > defragged yet, I see that most of the disk has lots of stuff on it. When > I use the recovery console I still cannot get to the area where the stuff > seems to be. So, I seem to recall looking at a freeware program that > would scan the disk and then let me put the cursor over a section of that > scan and it would tell me what was there. Have any of you heard of > anything like that? Or know of a program that will let me look at the > entire disk surface? > > hopefully, one of you do... > > mayf From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com Sun Aug 29 20:32:22 2010 From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 22:32:22 -0400 Subject: [Land-speed] OT: My computer drash In-Reply-To: <4C7A841C.5060707@mayfco.com> References: <4C7A841C.5060707@mayfco.com> Message-ID: Dave. Back in the days Before NT and XP we used to used Norton's Editor when would allow us to look at the disk sector by sector and Bit by Bit. however with the new file handling systems its a little hard to do that.. but will check to see if there is a comparable program for later operating systems IF you do really have files, then you can use the Programmers editor to open those files to see what is there.. ( have found this to be an excellent way to work on files. and will open them.) Pfe32 free to use.. download location. http://www.lancs.ac.uk/staff/steveb/cpaap/pfe/ http://www.lancs.ac.uk/staff/steveb/cpaap/pfe/faq.htm -------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Mayfield" Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:00 PM To: ; Subject: [Land-speed] OT: My computer drash > I took the hard drive to the drive experts and had them take a look at > it. Their comment was..."it's gone..all gone..." But, am persevering and > I purchased some software to let me scan for deleted files. I ran that > program and found 63,000 deleted files and when I told it to recover the > deleted items, 14,000 or so were recovered. Unfortunately not one single > one could be opened and had significant data in it. Most were just > headers. > > But, before all teh stuff hit the fan, I had maybe 25 GB of stuff on > this120 GB drive. Some how, the amount of free space has dwindled to > approx 57 GB. When I use disk frag to analyze the disk and, no I haven't > defragged yet, I see that most of the disk has lots of stuff on it. When > I use the recovery console I still cannot get to the area where the stuff > seems to be. So, I seem to recall looking at a freeware program that > would scan the disk and then let me put the cursor over a section of that > scan and it would tell me what was there. Have any of you heard of > anything like that? Or know of a program that will let me look at the > entire disk surface? > > hopefully, one of you do... > > mayf From mark at bradakis.com Sun Aug 29 21:06:50 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:06:50 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] OT: My computer drash In-Reply-To: References: <4C7A841C.5060707@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <4C7B204A.5040803@bradakis.com> Too bad you use Windows instead of a real operating system ;-) But your computer troubles did remind me that there are some Team.Net backup issues I need to tend to. After 20+ years of doing this I do have a reasonably good record of keeping services on the air, I'd hate to have anything drastic happen. Actually something that COULD have been drastic did happen just over a week ago - I need to make some contingency plans. I am not immortal: http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=105 mjb. From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Mon Aug 30 12:39:07 2010 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:39:07 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Speed week/team vesco Message-ID: Check out the www.teamvescoracing.com. Two videos and complete history of the family racing. Good stuff. The newest video is the 335 mph run. Enjoy Glen From wester6935 at comcast.net Mon Aug 30 19:00:08 2010 From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:00:08 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Huge Coupon Savings this Week Only! Save up to 56% References: <4C7BDB61.00000025@m51.harborfreight22.com> Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: "Harbor Freight Tools" > Date: August 30, 2010 10:25:05 AM MDT > To: > Subject: Huge Coupon Savings this Week Only! Save up to 56% > Reply-To: mktdelano-reply at harborfreight22.com > > > If graphics do not display, view this email online > For instructions on how to White List Us, Click Here > HARBOR FREIGHT TOOLS - HOT BUYS! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember you need a ground cover under your race car on the salt! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Search | Customer Service | Sale Items | Free Catalog | Store Locator > > PRICES- Although we make every effort to assure that our prices, products and coupons are advertised as accurately as possible, > we are only human, and in the event an error is made, we reserve the right to correct it. > > Offer valid August 30, 2010 through September 5, 2010 > No adjustments on Prior Purchases > > > > To change your email address, email format, or to unsubscribe, press here. > > Invite a friend to become a member of Harbor Freight's Preferred Customer Email List. > > Opt-in for Harbor Freight Tools' offers provided by Harbor Freight Tools. Copyright 2010. > Harbor Freight Tools > 3491 Mission Oaks Blvd. Camarillo, CA 93012 > 1-800-444-3353 > > Fedex service marks used by permission. > > 3510A_Creative1 From wester6935 at comcast.net Mon Aug 30 19:42:57 2010 From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:42:57 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Fwd: Huge Coupon Savings this Week Only! Save up to 56% References: Message-ID: <803CE3AD-7C4E-4B7C-8ECF-C97DA5F2D962@comcast.net> Tried to send the coupon from Harbor Freight for their BIG tarp. Wouldn't forward. Sorry. Just a reminder for a ground cover on the salt. Wes Begin forwarded message: > From: Wester Potter > Date: August 30, 2010 7:00:08 PM MDT > To: LAND SPEED LIST > Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Huge Coupon Savings this Week Only! Save up to 56% > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Harbor Freight Tools" >> Date: August 30, 2010 10:25:05 AM MDT >> To: >> Subject: Huge Coupon Savings this Week Only! Save up to 56% >> Reply-To: mktdelano-reply at harborfreight22.com >> >> >> If graphics do not display, view this email online >> For instructions on how to White List Us, Click Here >> HARBOR FREIGHT TOOLS - HOT BUYS! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Remember you need a ground cover under your race car on the salt! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Search | Customer Service | Sale Items | Free Catalog | Store Locator >> >> PRICES- Although we make every effort to assure that our prices, products > and coupons are advertised as accurately as possible, >> we are only human, and in the event an error is made, we reserve the right > to correct it. >> >> Offer valid August 30, 2010 through September 5, 2010 >> No adjustments on Prior Purchases >> >> >> >> To change your email address, email format, or to unsubscribe, press here. >> >> Invite a friend to become a member of Harbor Freight's Preferred Customer > Email List. >> >> Opt-in for Harbor Freight Tools' offers provided by Harbor Freight Tools. > Copyright 2010. >> Harbor Freight Tools >> 3491 Mission Oaks Blvd. Camarillo, CA 93012 >> 1-800-444-3353 >> >> Fedex service marks used by permission. >> >> 3510A_Creative1 > _______________________________________________ > Land-speed at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/land-speed/wester6935 at comcast.net