From saltfever at comcast.net  Wed Sep  2 04:02:47 2009
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 03:02:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
Message-ID: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>

To get 1/1000 of any distance per hour, you have to be able to resolve time
to the 0.000277 seconds. However, fundamental metrology requires at least a
resolution of 1/10 to the right of the most significant digit to avoid
rounding errors. So timing resolution must be at  least 0.000027 seconds.
The Bonneville clocks are better than that and report 7 seven places to the
right of the decimal!

 

From: Malcolm Pittwood <mbp01 at sky.com>

(snip . . . ) "The calcualtion of the average speed . . . . "  All to a
timed accuracy of 1/1000th of a second and then expressed to 1/1000th of a
mph or kilo per hour.

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Wed Sep  2 05:50:44 2009
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:50:44 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
Message-ID: <CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>

You can go to 20 places past the decimal point and not be accurate though 
you might imply it.
How do the compensate for the length of the wire?
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:02 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph


> To get 1/1000 of any distance per hour, you have to be able to resolve 
> time
> to the 0.000277 seconds. However, fundamental metrology requires at least 
> a
> resolution of 1/10 to the right of the most significant digit to avoid
> rounding errors. So timing resolution must be at  least 0.000027 seconds.
> The Bonneville clocks are better than that and report 7 seven places to 
> the
> right of the decimal!
>
>
>
> From: Malcolm Pittwood <mbp01 at sky.com>
>
> (snip . . . ) "The calcualtion of the average speed . . . . "  All to a
> timed accuracy of 1/1000th of a second and then expressed to 1/1000th of a
> mph or kilo per hour.
> _______________________________________________

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Sep  2 06:41:18 2009
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:41:18 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C6842FB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Basic "Rule of Thumb" in the Telecom industry is information travels 1
foot per nanosecond. We have more accurate and complex equations when it
comes to thruput and buffering but there are a lot of applications that
have very strict timing requirements, and ways to measure it.

Mike Meierle
#847 F/BMMP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder/Bonneville Record Holder



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Dahlgren
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:51 AM
To: Kirkwood; land-speed
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph

You can go to 20 places past the decimal point and not be accurate
though you might imply it.
How do the compensate for the length of the wire?
Dave

From mbp01 at sky.com  Wed Sep  2 06:42:39 2009
From: mbp01 at sky.com (Malcolm Pittwood)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:42:39 +0100
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <4bc5a3b00909020542u316ddd8bybc01fa667c932591@mail.gmail.com>

I am not sure when the need for accuracy chimed in, but as Dave highlights
there will be differences at each venue because of the equipment - however
it is certified.

The wording of the FIA says time 1/1000th of a second (if the SCTA team of
timers go to 7 decimals then they will only need to work with the first
three that they record) and the mph or kph figure quoted to the world is cut
off at the third decimal without rounding.

Average of two times is the correct way to deal with the calculation of the
final average speed when two runs take place.

Malcolm



On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net> wrote:

> You can go to 20 places past the decimal point and not be accurate though
> you might imply it.
> How do the compensate for the length of the wire?
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
> To: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:02 AM
> Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
>
>
>
> To get 1/1000 of any distance per hour, you have to be able to resolve time
>> to the 0.000277 seconds. However, fundamental metrology requires at least
>> a
>> resolution of 1/10 to the right of the most significant digit to avoid
>> rounding errors. So timing resolution must be at  least 0.000027 seconds.
>> The Bonneville clocks are better than that and report 7 seven places to
>> the
>> right of the decimal!
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Malcolm Pittwood <mbp01 at sky.com>
>>
>> (snip . . . ) "The calcualtion of the average speed . . . . "  All to a
>> timed accuracy of 1/1000th of a second and then expressed to 1/1000th of a
>> mph or kilo per hour.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as mbp01 at sky.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Wed Sep  2 08:17:03 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:17:03 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C6842FB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C6842FB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <720563FC-1C5E-4CBD-A5DC-50D1E397B562@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:41 AM, MEIERLE Mike wrote:

> Basic "Rule of Thumb" in the Telecom industry is information travels 1
> foot per nanosecond. We have more accurate and complex equations  
> when it
> comes to thruput and buffering but there are a lot of applications  
> that
> have very strict timing requirements, and ways to measure it.
>
> Mike Meierle
> #847 F/BMMP
> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
> ECTA Record Holder/Bonneville Record Holder
>

I'm still wondering what's wrong with the idea of having a timing  
system that is comprised of discrete sensors that receive a common  
clock signal -- and then transmit not only a sensor closure and the  
time at which the event happened.  Since all sensors would be using  
the same clock, continuously synched together, there wouldn't be any  
delays for wire length of transmission lag.  Mike, you've said this  
won't work.  Why don't I agree -- what's wrong with the concept?

Jon

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Sep  2 08:28:27 2009
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <720563FC-1C5E-4CBD-A5DC-50D1E397B562@nancyandjon.org>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C6842FB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<720563FC-1C5E-4CBD-A5DC-50D1E397B562@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C684404@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

I didn't say it wouldn't work, your synchronization idea was to use GPS,
Public GPS isn't accurate enough for our application, the military
purposely vary's the signal to thwart our enemies, you have to have the
correction frequency to get the precision military signal. And It's just
more expensive. Think about when someone hits a timing light on the
track, now they're hitting a expensive sensor. The SCTA is happy with
what they have and have it worked out. The discussion is with them.

Mike M.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wennerberg [mailto:jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:17 AM
To: MEIERLE Mike
Cc: land-speed
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph


On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:41 AM, MEIERLE Mike wrote:

> Basic "Rule of Thumb" in the Telecom industry is information travels 1

> foot per nanosecond. We have more accurate and complex equations when
> it comes to thruput and buffering but there are a lot of applications
> that have very strict timing requirements, and ways to measure it.
>
> Mike Meierle
> #847 F/BMMP
> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA ECTA Record Holder/Bonneville
> Record Holder
>

I'm still wondering what's wrong with the idea of having a timing system
that is comprised of discrete sensors that receive a common clock signal
-- and then transmit not only a sensor closure and the time at which the
event happened.  Since all sensors would be using the same clock,
continuously synched together, there wouldn't be any delays for wire
length of transmission lag.  Mike, you've said this won't work.  Why
don't I agree -- what's wrong with the concept?

Jon

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Wed Sep  2 08:36:20 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:36:20 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C684404@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C6842FB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<720563FC-1C5E-4CBD-A5DC-50D1E397B562@nancyandjon.org>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C684404@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <371F4F5F-BA1A-4859-BBDF-1193C652ADF0@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 2, 2009, at 10:28 AM, MEIERLE Mike wrote:

> I didn't say it wouldn't work, your synchronization idea was to use  
> GPS,
> Public GPS isn't accurate enough for our application, the military
> purposely vary's the signal to thwart our enemies, you have to have  
> the
> correction frequency to get the precision military signal. And It's  
> just
> more expensive. Think about when someone hits a timing light on the
> track, now they're hitting a expensive sensor. The SCTA is happy with
> what they have and have it worked out. The discussion is with them.
>
> Mike M.



Ah-HA!  No, I surely did NOT mean to suggest GPS system, nor to imply  
that it would work.  I imagine a timing clock running here at a  
central location on the Salt -- say, the timing tower - sending the  
clock signal to the various individual sensors.  And since the  
individual stations are in fixed locations - it should be doable to  
correct for delay in receiving the clock signals within a few minutes  
of system initialisation.  Once that's done -- no changes, no delays  
to consider.  Each clock/sensor would send a packet saying "I had  
something happen (someone broke through the light beam) at such-and- 
such a time", and that time would be used with the other event times  
to compute time between entrance and departure of the timed stretch.

That's what I meant to say, at least.  Thanks for letting me know what  
it seems I said, Mike.

Radios are down out here at Bub's by the way -- everything is on  
hold.  Bub is pre-staged at the south end of the international course,  
Sam Wheeler is reported on the way out here with the 999 liner to get  
in line.  Wind is about 4-7 mph down course -- nobody running right now.

Jon

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Wed Sep  2 09:32:38 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:32:38 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <0B3073C2-7177-43AB-8D42-DE5F67F7AB45@comcast.net>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C6842FB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<720563FC-1C5E-4CBD-A5DC-50D1E397B562@nancyandjon.org>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C684404@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<371F4F5F-BA1A-4859-BBDF-1193C652ADF0@nancyandjon.org>
	<0B3073C2-7177-43AB-8D42-DE5F67F7AB45@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <26325E95-9EDA-425A-AC87-C32872FA0813@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 2, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Wester Potter wrote:

> It's obvious you have not worked timing on the salt.  We put down  
> those miles of wire for a reason, dependability!  We use a computer  
> program that limits numbers to the right of the decimal because you  
> can't use more than three numbers for your speed.  Our computer  
> gives additional possibilities but YOU don't need them.  We remember  
> the times when radio contact is impossible because of atmospheric  
> conditions on the salt.  Ask GMC about the year they ran the pickup  
> truck with Don Stringfellow Sr. driving.  They had a chase van  
> positioned parallel to the truck that could relay telemetry to the  
> motorhome (they gave it to us several years later) that had radip  
> connections to the GM proving ground computers.  It worked part of  
> the time.  Do you want part of the speeds?  We certify the computers  
> every year  by third party comparison with the atomic clock in  
> Colorado.  We use a wireless link between the computer and receiving  
> units across the course for time slips and at the start for the  
> radio announcer ... but we put a wire across to the time slips in  
> case the salt gremlins poke their ugly heads up which they  
> occasionally have a tendency to do.  The other, reliable, high tech   
> possibilities would boost your entry fees considerably because they  
> are expen$$$$$ive.  That and dead on dependability and reliability  
> is why we don't use them.
>
> Wes


Wes, it's obvious that you don't want to allow experimentation or you  
wouldn't be telling us about what didn't work in the past.  I allow  
that maybe the system now in use works -- but I respectfully suggest  
that if nobody tries to improve with new technology -- nobody will  
ever get any better system.  Your comments about prior attempts at new  
technology hold some important words -- "...several years later..."  
that tell us the technology is not the latest available today in  
September 2009.  Experimenting is not cheap -- but notice that I have  
not ever stated anything about how useable the system I'm dreaming  
about is right at this instant.  If someone doesn't try to move  
technology forward -- we're doomed to live in the past.

Jon

From NT788 at comcast.net  Wed Sep  2 09:36:21 2009
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 15:36:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
Message-ID: <661825679.2647931251905781260.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

I think the government should control speed attempts. They could raise taxes
and fix all the problems!

Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 3:02:47 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph

To get 1/1000 of any distance per hour, you have to be able to resolve time
to the 0.000277 seconds. However, fundamental metrology requires at least a
resolution of 1/10 to the right of the most significant digit to avoid
rounding errors. So timing resolution must be at B least 0.000027 seconds.
The Bonneville clocks are better than that and report 7 seven places to the
right of the decimal!

B 

From: Malcolm Pittwood <mbp01 at sky.com>

(snip . . . ) "The calcualtion of the average speed . . . . " B All to a
timed accuracy of 1/1000th of a second and then expressed to 1/1000th of a
mph or kilo per hour.
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Wed Sep  2 10:42:41 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:42:41 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <C2723FAE-40E8-4E84-BD80-42A3146FA07C@comcast.net>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C6842FB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<720563FC-1C5E-4CBD-A5DC-50D1E397B562@nancyandjon.org>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C684404@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<371F4F5F-BA1A-4859-BBDF-1193C652ADF0@nancyandjon.org>
	<0B3073C2-7177-43AB-8D42-DE5F67F7AB45@comcast.net>
	<26325E95-9EDA-425A-AC87-C32872FA0813@nancyandjon.org>
	<C2723FAE-40E8-4E84-BD80-42A3146FA07C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <080051B7-FA11-4422-9A0D-4E41C8816DAC@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 2, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Wester Potter wrote:

> Jon,
>
> We HAVE experimented but the on salt reliability isn't there without  
> a huge outlay of $$$.  We tried a timing system used in ski racing,  
> we tried everything our radio supplier has available, we have had  
> college students work on things in their engineering labs.  We keep  
> trying new things as they become available but DEPENDABILITY ON THE  
> SALT still isn't there.  Look at the problems you have had with your  
> computer links.  You're never 100% sure you can get on line while  
> you are on the salt.  You have said that in previous posts at other  
> locations.  You have commented on trying some new systems but with  
> no valid suggestions.  I guess there are some satellite links that  
> could offer reliability but we can't afford them.  What we use now  
> works 99.9% of the time ... and it's paid for.  You still have to  
> rely on some kind of not too expensive sensor that is salt proof and  
> won't be damaged if it somehow gets wet.
>
> If you find something new that is within our budget and is more than  
> 99.9% reliable I'm positive we'd jump on it.  So would Rice Bros.  
> and SCTA/BNI.  Until then we'll plod along with our tried and true  
> system that works for us and more importantly, for the racers.
>
> Wes


No, Wes - I'm not saying that you haven't tried.  And I guess it's  
time for a disclaimer -- I am not capable of designing the system I  
envision.  I do, however, insist that technology is advancing and that  
a concept such as I've suggested is worth investigating.  Why limit  
the creativity to college students -- why not have the professors  
investigate?  Why not have the commercial inventors investigate?  As  
for suggestions, I again say that while I'm not the guy that knows  
enough to invent -- I can try to point someone to a valid concept  
worth investigating.  A huge outlay of money?  Well, why not?  Not by  
an end-user, but by a firm or govenrment entity that might find a use  
for the technology.

I am now sure that I can get on line while on the salt.  It hasn't  
failed with the system I am now using.  Until it does - I AM 100% sure  
I can get on line.

In the meanitme -- I won't let you tell me that it can't work because  
there's something that already works okay.  Let's move ahead, not  
stand still.

Buddfab is warming the motor at the end of the Int'l long course at  
Bub's.

Jon

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Wed Sep  2 11:05:32 2009
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:05:32 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net><CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite><7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C6842FB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com><720563FC-1C5E-4CBD-A5DC-50D1E397B562@nancyandjon.org><7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20C684404@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com><371F4F5F-BA1A-4859-BBDF-1193C652ADF0@nancyandjon.org><0B3073C2-7177-43AB-8D42-DE5F67F7AB45@comcast.net>
	<26325E95-9EDA-425A-AC87-C32872FA0813@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <002201ca2bef$97d00150$6601a8c0@Rick>

To further the topic, in 2007, with state of the art equipment, the Ford 
Hydrogen Fuel Cell Team tried to use real time data with what we might call 
updated telemetrics equipment, and still had no data.  Until the race car 
was on the return road, then they could remotely download everything rather 
quickly.
Actually this was VERY successful in that the data was transmitted back to 
the scientists and engineers in the pit just while the car was being towed 
back.  By the time we reached our area at the far end of the pits, the team 
knew virtually everything that happened during the run and were in the 
middle of planning or correcting the problem.
Since refueling and re hydrating the fuel cells had to be done within a 
specific time frame for stack durability and efficiency they had information 
to make the right decisions.

Jon, when experimentation results in lost runs by racers that depend on the 
reliability of SCTA/BNI and the timing personnel and equipment, it kind of 
squashes experimentation.  I have not had that misfortune, but have seen it 
occur.  NOT often, but I certainly wouldn't want to be that guy.  Especially 
on a particularly hot return run.

I agree with you that a wireless system would be far superior to running 
miles and miles of wire, and all the guys and gals that string, remove, and 
repair that wire agree, Hell, you and Nancy probably were helping with that 
wire in recent years.  I do think though that losing runs is an awfully high 
price to pay unless the technology is VERY proven in many other venues.

Respectfully

Rick

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Sep  2 11:17:02 2009
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:17:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <661825679.2647931251905781260.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryv
	ille.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<661825679.2647931251905781260.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20090902171637.9A9AF18788B@autox.team.net>

Dang! Jack don't give BO any more ideas....next there will be a Czar..........

Skip



At 08:36 AM 9/2/2009, NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
>I think the government should control speed attempts. They could raise taxes
>and fix all the problems!
>
>Jack
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
>To: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 3:02:47 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
>Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
>
>To get 1/1000 of any distance per hour, you have to be able to resolve time
>to the 0.000277 seconds. However, fundamental metrology requires at least a
>resolution of 1/10 to the right of the most significant digit to avoid
>rounding errors. So timing resolution must be at B least 0.000027 seconds.
>The Bonneville clocks are better than that and report 7 seven places to the
>right of the decimal!
>
>B
>
>From: Malcolm Pittwood <mbp01 at sky.com>
>
>(snip . . . ) "The calcualtion of the average speed . . . . " B All to a
>timed accuracy of 1/1000th of a second and then expressed to 1/1000th of a
>mph or kilo per hour.
>Land-speed mailing list

From ed at vetteracing.com  Wed Sep  2 14:10:12 2009
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:10:12 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
Message-ID: <W2210718001159461251922212@webmail15>

So I'm guessing that the through-the-air inconsistencies are the reason that
in-vehicle transponders wouldn't work?
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wennerberg [mailto:jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org]
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 08:32 AM
To: 'Wester Potter'
Cc: 'LAND SPEED LIST'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph

On Sep 2, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Wester Potter wrote: > It's obvious you have not
worked timing on the salt. We put down > those miles of wire for a reason,
dependability! We use a computer > program that limits numbers to the right of
the decimal because you > can't use more than three numbers for your speed.
Our computer > gives additional possibilities but YOU don't need them. We
remember > the times when radio contact is impossible because of atmospheric >
conditions on the salt. Ask GMC about the year they ran the pickup > truck
with Don Stringfellow Sr. driving. They had a chase van > positioned parallel
to the truck that could relay telemetry to the > motorhome (they gave it to us
several years later) that had radip > connections to the GM proving ground
computers. It worked part of > the time. Do you want part of the speeds? We
certify the computers > every year by third party comparison with the atomic
clock in > Colorado. We use a wireless link between the computer and receiving
> units across the course for time slips and at the start for the > radio
announcer ... but we put a wire across to the time slips in > case the salt
gremlins poke their ugly heads up which they > occasionally have a tendency to
do. The other, reliable, high tech > possibilities would boost your entry fees
considerably because they > are expen$$$$$ive. That and dead on dependability
and reliability > is why we don't use them. > > Wes Wes, it's obvious that you
don't want to allow experimentation or you wouldn't be telling us about what
didn't work in the past. I allow that maybe the system now in use works -- but
I respectfully suggest that if nobody tries to improve with new technology --
nobody will ever get any better system. Your comments about prior attempts at
new technology hold some important words -- "...several years later..." that
tell us the technology is not the latest available today in September 2009.
Experimenting is not cheap -- but notice that I have not ever stated anything
about how useable the system I'm dreaming about is right at this instant. If
someone doesn't try to move technology forward -- we're doomed to live in the
past. Jon _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as
ed at vetteracing.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ed at vetteracing.com  Wed Sep  2 14:14:34 2009
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:14:34 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
Message-ID: <W2224823256319021251922474@webmail27>

They already tax speed attempts in Arizona with the use of photo radar about
every mile..... But they lose money because less than a third of the "victims"
pay the fines........
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: NT788 at comcast.net [mailto:NT788 at comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 08:36 AM
To: 'Kirkwood'
Cc: 'land-speed'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph

I think the government should control speed attempts. They could raise taxes
and fix all the problems! Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirkwood"
To: "land-speed" Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 3:02:47 AM GMT -08:00
US/Canada Pacific Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph To get
1/1000 of any distance per hour, you have to be able to resolve time to the
0.000277 seconds. However, fundamental metrology requires at least a
resolution of 1/10 to the right of the most significant digit to avoid
rounding errors. So timing resolution must be at B least 0.000027 seconds. The
Bonneville clocks are better than that and report 7 seven places to the right
of the decimal! B From: Malcolm Pittwood (snip . . . ) "The calcualtion of the
average speed . . . . " B All to a timed accuracy of 1/1000th of a second and
then expressed to 1/1000th of a mph or kilo per hour. Land-speed mailing list
You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfever at comcast.net  Wed Sep  2 14:54:56 2009
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:54:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <002601ca2c0f$a13299e0$e397cda0$@net>

I was very careful NOT to mention accuracy in my response to Malcolm.
Accuracy is a completely different issue. You not only have the wire to
consider but the latency of the photo cell and the speed of light. If the
lights are 1000ft apart (across the track) you have a 1000NS delay for
arrival to the photo cell. We also don't know the precision of the surveyed
mile. It was not my intent to open up another can or worms!  My point was if
you only have 0.001sec resolution you are introducing diminished precision
when rounding to mph. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Dahlgren [mailto:ddahlgren at snet.net] 
You can go to 20 places past the decimal point and not be accurate though
you might imply it.  How do the compensate for the length of the wire?

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Wed Sep  2 15:14:26 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:14:26 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <002601ca2c0f$a13299e0$e397cda0$@net>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
	<002601ca2c0f$a13299e0$e397cda0$@net>
Message-ID: <DF3BECFC-B4F5-46C2-809F-6A0CD30C70FE@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 2, 2009, at 4:54 PM, Kirkwood wrote:

> I was very careful NOT to mention accuracy in my response to Malcolm.
> Accuracy is a completely different issue. You not only have the wire  
> to
> consider but the latency of the photo cell and the speed of light.  
> If the
> lights are 1000ft apart (across the track) you have a 1000NS delay for
> arrival to the photo cell. We also don't know the precision of the  
> surveyed
> mile. It was not my intent to open up another can or worms!  My  
> point was if
> you only have 0.001sec resolution you are introducing diminished  
> precision
> when rounding to mph.


The 1000NS sec delay would only b e in the instance that the vehicle  
crosses at maximum distance from the light-emitting beam, right?  If  
the vehicle was right by the receiver the delay would be much smaller,  
I think.  But realistic traps are narrower -- more like 100 feet,  
taking a full order of magnitude off that number.

The precision of the surveying has always been a question in my mind  
-- although today's high-end surveys are very accurate, I'm told by my  
surveyor friend.  But -- his new-end GPS surveys, which he reports are  
within a half-inch over ten miles -- are within the half-inch error  
when compared to old chain-type measuring.  How precise was that?

My proposed system would not be affected by speed of light (other than  
the delay in the photocell beam break) -- because each timing event  
would include clock information -- so delay in arriving at the  
computer is not of an issue.  And wouldn't many of the errors be  
consistent - and therefore subject to being tuned out of the system by  
measurement and then correction in all computations?

Jon

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Sep  2 17:03:14 2009
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:03:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <661825679.2647931251905781260.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net>
	<661825679.2647931251905781260.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B7383DB733D243E9935A11DBA34F703B@DBTech>

Right, Jack-- and no "winners (records) because that would make the losers
feel bad and hurt their self- esteem. :)

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of NT788 at comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
To: Kirkwood
Cc: land-speed
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph

I think the government should control speed attempts. They could raise taxes
and fix all the problems!

Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirkwood" <saltfever at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 3:02:47 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph

To get 1/1000 of any distance per hour, you have to be able to resolve time
to the 0.000277 seconds. However, fundamental metrology requires at least a
resolution of 1/10 to the right of the most significant digit to avoid
rounding errors. So timing resolution must be at B least 0.000027 seconds.
The Bonneville clocks are better than that and report 7 seven places to the
right of the decimal!

B 

From: Malcolm Pittwood <mbp01 at sky.com>

(snip . . . ) "The calcualtion of the average speed . . . . " B All to a
timed accuracy of 1/1000th of a second and then expressed to 1/1000th of a
mph or kilo per hour.
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Sep  2 17:29:10 2009
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:29:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <002601ca2c0f$a13299e0$e397cda0$@net>
References: <005e01ca2bb4$86bcfac0$9436f040$@net><CF918A0AD06C4462A1DB2A8EDFA452C2@DaveSatellite>
	<002601ca2c0f$a13299e0$e397cda0$@net>
Message-ID: <6A42FC440AC84FD194F91F7A3131F655@DBTech>

Don't forget that if the wires are of equal length, the absolute delays
cancel since you are looking only at the time difference.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kirkwood
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:55 PM
To: 'Dave Dahlgren'; land-speed
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph

I was very careful NOT to mention accuracy in my response to Malcolm.
Accuracy is a completely different issue. You not only have the wire to
consider but the latency of the photo cell and the speed of light. If the
lights are 1000ft apart (across the track) you have a 1000NS delay for
arrival to the photo cell. We also don't know the precision of the surveyed
mile. It was not my intent to open up another can or worms!  My point was if
you only have 0.001sec resolution you are introducing diminished precision
when rounding to mph. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Dahlgren [mailto:ddahlgren at snet.net] 
You can go to 20 places past the decimal point and not be accurate though
you might imply it.  How do the compensate for the length of the wire?
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Thu Sep  3 07:44:29 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 09:44:29 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <803207.27982.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <803207.27982.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7D2977D4-56FE-41E8-BE9C-1FB1059310CC@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 2, 2009, at 10:14 PM, dan warner wrote:

> So, what does everyone who is dissatisfied with current timing  
> system propose to do with previous records? Toss 'em because the  
> older methods were not as accurate as the current or future methods?
>
> I noticed no one has claimed to not have accepted a record because  
> they are didsatisfied with the recording methods currently in use.  
> One thing about the timing as now used is that it is consistant for  
> everyone involved. I also noticed that there are no complaints from  
> the people who string, rewind and service the wire.I would think  
> that they would be the first on the wireless bandwagon.
>
> I helped James Rice setup the course for the steam car. We were  
> within 1/4" across the mile and kilo measured by length and width  
> and cross measured. If I remember James' comment about FIA  
> requirements, the mile/kilo needs be only 4 or 6" accurate. The FIM  
> on the other hand requires something like .0010" accuracy. Has  
> anyone checked the certificate of accuracy at the Bub meet?
>
> DW


Dan --

I hope you're not including me in the group of folks "...dissatisfied  
with current timing system...".  There is absolutely no way that I  
have ever either stated - or even implied any dissatisfaction with the  
current system.  And as for tossing old records when a new measuring  
system arrives on the technological scene -- sure, toss out the old  
ones, just like has evidently been done each time there has been any  
advance in measurements.  It was done that way in the past, I presume,  
if you suggest (by implication)
  that it be done again.

Unless, that is, you go from my words to a conclusion that because I  
suggest trying to design a different system - which might have less  
errors inherent -- is an expression of dissatisfaction.  I can't stop  
you from interpreting what I say - as you choose to so do rather than  
as what I mean.

I won't get into a discussion about the relative accuracy of surveying  
methods -- I'm not trained in that field and can't offer any real  
input.  I have questions -- but will ask a surveyor, not this board.

Deep enough for Thursday morning.  Have another cup of coffee and sit  
back and enjoy the day.

Jon

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Thu Sep  3 09:30:26 2009
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:30:26 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam/LSR Measuring Devices
Message-ID: <bf6.3b84cc49.37d13b12@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/3/2009 9:49:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org writes:

I won't  get into a discussion about the relative accuracy of surveying   
methods -- I'm not trained in that field and can't offer any real   
input.  I have questions -- but will ask a surveyor, not this  board.


Good question, how do you check the accuracy of the measuring devices? 
We had the Maine State Police up on June 3rd to use LASER distance  
measurement to check the distance at Loring, nice fresh state of the art stuff,  
did the one and a half miles to within under 3 inches linear. The 132ft L X  
150ft W trap box was perfect as far as I know, as these devices improve at  
shorter distances. 
My point on starting this thread was both on discussing various methods  
currently utilized and what might be available to improve our sport, not to  
defend or criticize a specific type or brand on anybody's' venue. 
Again, it would be nice if there was a standardized measuring method/device 
 that could also lead to a similar sanctioning criteria for all LSR. Good 
Luck  with that, it seems...
What I wanted was to improve acceptance of racers accomplishments at our  
place by garnering respect for our diligence and the equipment we use. I  
always stated we compare to no place else, just would like our peers to  agree 
we did what we did. as honestly as possible. 
Now I go for another cuppa Black Coffee. 
 
Bob W, Loring Guy

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Sep  3 09:50:39 2009
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 09:50:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <7D2977D4-56FE-41E8-BE9C-1FB1059310CC@nancyandjon.org>
References: <803207.27982.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<7D2977D4-56FE-41E8-BE9C-1FB1059310CC@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <49C58C5C-6382-46EC-A961-0FB755B7EAEE@comcast.net>

I think the answer to this whole flap is that if there is a better  
system
out there that:
	1-  Is affordable
	2-  is as accurate
	3-  Is reliable for not missing ANY times
Everyone would use it, USFRA, SCTA/BNI and Rice Bros.

When you have invested as much time in searching and testing as
Gary Wilkinson has ... you'll know why we use what we have now.

Wes

On Sep 3, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Jon Wennerberg wrote:

> On Sep 2, 2009, at 10:14 PM, dan warner wrote:
>
>> So, what does everyone who is dissatisfied with current timing
>> system propose to do with previous records? Toss 'em because the
>> older methods were not as accurate as the current or future methods?
>>
>>
>> DW
>
>
> Dan --
>
> I hope you're not including me in the group of folks "...dissatisfied
> with current timing system...".  There is absolutely no way that I
> have ever either stated - or even implied any dissatisfaction with the
> current system.

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Thu Sep  3 09:56:19 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:56:19 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <49C58C5C-6382-46EC-A961-0FB755B7EAEE@comcast.net>
References: <803207.27982.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<7D2977D4-56FE-41E8-BE9C-1FB1059310CC@nancyandjon.org>
	<49C58C5C-6382-46EC-A961-0FB755B7EAEE@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <24FFE1B9-AADC-4B74-BA98-6E3ED48FC785@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:50 AM, Wester Potter wrote:

> I think the answer to this whole flap is that if there is a better  
> system
> out there that:
> 	1-  Is affordable
> 	2-  is as accurate
> 	3-  Is reliable for not missing ANY times
> Everyone would use it, USFRA, SCTA/BNI and Rice Bros.
>
> When you have invested as much time in searching and testing as
> Gary Wilkinson has ... you'll know why we use what we have now.
>
> Wes



I don't think you're on the same page as me, Wes.  There will never be  
a better system is what I'm saying -- never until someone invents it.   
And I don't think that refusing to experiment, to invent, will ever  
make a better system appear.

Jon, saying that I am all for quitting this discussion -- we're not  
getting anything accomplished by talking AT each other.

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Sep  3 10:32:24 2009
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:32:24 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
Message-ID: <W954632915193831251995544@webmail26>

Whatever happened to the concept "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ?
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Wester Potter [mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 08:50 AM
To: 'Jon Wennerberg'
Cc: 'Kirkwood', 'land-speed'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph

I think the answer to this whole flap is that if there is a better system out
there that: 1- Is affordable 2- is as accurate 3- Is reliable for not missing
ANY times Everyone would use it, USFRA, SCTA/BNI and Rice Bros. When you have
invested as much time in searching and testing as Gary Wilkinson has ...
you'll know why we use what we have now. Wes On Sep 3, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Jon
Wennerberg wrote: > On Sep 2, 2009, at 10:14 PM, dan warner wrote: > >> So,
what does everyone who is dissatisfied with current timing >> system propose
to do with previous records? Toss 'em because the >> older methods were not as
accurate as the current or future methods? >> >> >> DW > > > Dan -- > > I hope
you're not including me in the group of folks "...dissatisfied > with current
timing system...". There is absolutely no way that I > have ever either stated
- or even implied any dissatisfaction with the > current system.

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Thu Sep  3 10:39:14 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 12:39:14 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <W954632915193831251995544@webmail26>
References: <W954632915193831251995544@webmail26>
Message-ID: <ECF68143-4146-4722-BA2F-A4E0E7B1526A@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 3, 2009, at 12:32 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:

> Whatever happened to the concept "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"  ?
> Ed



If that were the case we'd still be dragging big rocks on the ground  
-- why invent the axle when slaves are so cheap?

Jon

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Sep  3 10:45:04 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:45:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <W954632915193831251995544@webmail26>
References: <W954632915193831251995544@webmail26>
Message-ID: <4A9FF290.70007@mayfco.com>

We would all still be hunter-gathers. Improvement is what drives the 
human race. Doing it better, cheaper, faster, inventing what  hasn't 
been made before...

what's going on down there in your neck of the woods?

we are just farkling around here..

mayf
Ed Van Scoy wrote:

>Whatever happened to the concept "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ?
>Ed
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wester Potter [mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net]
>Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 08:50 AM
>To: 'Jon Wennerberg'
>Cc: 'Kirkwood', 'land-speed'
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
>
>I think the answer to this whole flap is that if there is a better system out
>there that: 1- Is affordable 2- is as accurate 3- Is reliable for not missing
>ANY times Everyone would use it, USFRA, SCTA/BNI and Rice Bros. When you have
>invested as much time in searching and testing as Gary Wilkinson has ...
>you'll know why we use what we have now. Wes On Sep 3, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Jon
>Wennerberg wrote: > On Sep 2, 2009, at 10:14 PM, dan warner wrote: > >> So,
>what does everyone who is dissatisfied with current timing >> system propose
>to do with previous records? Toss 'em because the >> older methods were not as
>accurate as the current or future methods? >> >> >> DW > > > Dan -- > > I hope
>you're not including me in the group of folks "...dissatisfied > with current
>timing system...". There is absolutely no way that I > have ever either stated
>- or even implied any dissatisfaction with the > current system.

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Sep  3 13:41:54 2009
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:41:54 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
Message-ID: <W67436899154321252006914@webmail4>

Actually Jon, that should have read " If it ain't broke.... It ain't mine" 
Ed 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wennerberg [mailto:jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org]
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 09:39 AM
To: 'Ed Van Scoy'
Cc: 'Wester Potter', 'Kirkwood', 'land-speed'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph


On Sep 3, 2009, at 12:32 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:

Whatever happened to the concept "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ?
Ed






If that were the case we'd still be dragging big rocks on the ground -- why invent the axle when slaves are so cheap?


Jon

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Thu Sep  3 13:46:48 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:46:48 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
In-Reply-To: <W67436899154321252006914@webmail4>
References: <W67436899154321252006914@webmail4>
Message-ID: <0345A793-8770-4BB9-8F7E-A5CA01CA3C34@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 3, 2009, at 3:41 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:

> Actually Jon, that should have read " If it ain't broke.... It ain't  
> mine"
> Ed
>


Okay, Ed.  I like that -- sounds way too close to what real life is  
like at our house, too.

Jon

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Sep  3 13:48:55 2009
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:48:55 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph
Message-ID: <W70738433108141252007335@webmail36>

Maybe that's my problem.... my knuckles are all scraped from trying to hunt &
gather. ( with little luck). Still hotter than hell here Mayf, and that
hurricane has the dew point in the 60's...... Saps your energy and desire to
work on the car.
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 09:45 AM
To: 'Ed Van Scoy'
Cc: 'Wester Potter', 'Jon Wennerberg', 'land-speed', 'Kirkwood'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph

We would all still be hunter-gathers. Improvement is what drives the human
race. Doing it better, cheaper, faster, inventing what hasn't been made
before... what's going on down there in your neck of the woods? we are just
farkling around here.. mayf Ed Van Scoy wrote: >Whatever happened to the
concept "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ? >Ed >-----Original Message-----
>From: Wester Potter [mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net] >Sent: Thursday,
September 3, 2009 08:50 AM >To: 'Jon Wennerberg' >Cc: 'Kirkwood', 'land-speed'
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] British Steam effort 139.843mph > >I think the
answer to this whole flap is that if there is a better system out >there that:
1- Is affordable 2- is as accurate 3- Is reliable for not missing >ANY times
Everyone would use it, USFRA, SCTA/BNI and Rice Bros. When you have >invested
as much time in searching and testing as Gary Wilkinson has ... >you'll know
why we use what we have now. Wes On Sep 3, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Jon >Wennerberg
wrote: > On Sep 2, 2009, at 10:14 PM, dan warner wrote: > >> So, >what does
everyone who is dissatisfied with current timing >> system propose >to do with
previous records? Toss 'em because the >> older methods were not as >accurate
as the current or future methods? >> >> >> DW > > > Dan -- > > I hope >you're
not including me in the group of folks "...dissatisfied > with current >timing
system...". There is absolutely no way that I > have ever either stated >- or
even implied any dissatisfaction with the > current system. > >

From adin at frontier.net  Thu Sep  3 18:23:54 2009
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 18:23:54 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] interesting . . .
Message-ID: <30D95A68BB994ACA99D87745CA9ACB9E@ZTxp>

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=20543

From saltfevr at q.com  Fri Sep  4 22:15:03 2009
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 22:15:03 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] 2009 SW Nish Video
Message-ID: <BAY122-W413FBEB426966A652A9C69C9ED0@phx.gbl>

Very well done 3 1/2 min. 2009 Speedweek Video. Click on Videos,then 400mph
clip.

http://www.speedhunters.com
Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Sep  6 19:53:07 2009
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:53:07 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt Away
Message-ID: <1D0484DF-E512-4388-9119-FAF642D8C07B@comcast.net>

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/BonnevillePage.htm

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Tue Sep  8 13:22:52 2009
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:22:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Early LSR & Stanley Steamer vs. Durracq>From>JGMagoo
In-Reply-To: <1709726832.7004701252437434105.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1721740770.7008121252437772915.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

An amazing and interesting link about the 1906 land speed attempts with the
Darracq vs. the Stanley Steamer.

It mentions the conditions of the sand at Daytona and a lot of other
interesting information.B  It ran 197 km/hr (122 MPH) in 1906!

www.darracq-v8.co.uk

Also, this video link of the Darracq V-8 starting-up and running after
97-years.

(90-degree V-8, pushrod-operated overhead valves, etc.B  Pretty cool for
1906!)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3028548803958300134#docid=62141729208
64535386

-----------

I found these links and several GREATB  color pictures of the DarracqB on the
H.A.M.B..........

B B B B B 
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4309802#post4309802

-------------

Posts #342 & 3343

JG

From jdincau at qnet.com  Tue Sep  8 19:26:49 2009
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:26:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] custom streamliner canopy manufacturers
Message-ID: <DC6A05222D804B1EBBAD356620B37278@denpc>

Any others besides

 Gustafson plastics

wisil.recumbents.com

Aircraft Windshield in Los Alamitos

http://www.bikescreen.com/index.html 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Sep  8 19:28:39 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:28:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...
Message-ID: <4AA704C7.8090707@mayfco.com>

Just for curiosity sake, just how much oil is actually pumped through a 
motor say during a run of 5 miles at  some nominal speed? I know that 
the oil pump in my wet sump bypasses a lot of oil so it mush have lots 
more capability than actually needed    Anyone ever done an experiment 
where they hook up their dry sump return oil to a separate tank and just 
see how much oil is pumped per second? Or minute or?  Or is there a web 
site somewhere I might go look for answers.  I have a project in mind 
where I want to pump oil through the motor once only and I am trying to 
guess how big an oil tank might be needed for a run of about 2 minutes 
plus some reserve.

mayf.

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Tue Sep  8 19:47:06 2009
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 21:47:06 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...
References: <4AA704C7.8090707@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <000901ca30ef$70c55ce0$6601a8c0@Rick>

OHHHHHMAN
Doc
You just got too much time on your hands.....
:-d

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:28 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...


> Just for curiosity sake, just how much oil is actually pumped through a 
> motor say during a run of 5 miles at  some nominal speed? I know that 
> the oil pump in my wet sump bypasses a lot of oil so it mush have lots 
> more capability than actually needed    Anyone ever done an experiment 
> where they hook up their dry sump return oil to a separate tank and just 
> see how much oil is pumped per second? Or minute or?  Or is there a web 
> site somewhere I might go look for answers.  I have a project in mind 
> where I want to pump oil through the motor once only and I am trying to 
> guess how big an oil tank might be needed for a run of about 2 minutes 
> plus some reserve.
> 
> mayf.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as rickbyrnes at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep  8 20:20:34 2009
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:20:34 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...
In-Reply-To: <000901ca30ef$70c55ce0$6601a8c0@Rick>
References: <4AA704C7.8090707@mayfco.com> <000901ca30ef$70c55ce0$6601a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <BC1813E9-8D0E-457B-B22B-DD8DE18C3865@comcast.net>

Nothing else to do in Pahrump?

Wes

On Sep 8, 2009, at 7:47 PM, Rick Byrnes wrote:

> OHHHHHMAN
> Doc
> You just got too much time on your hands.....
> :-d
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:28 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...
>
>
>> Just for curiosity sake, just how much oil is actually pumped  
>> through a motor say during a run of 5 miles at  some nominal speed?  
>> I know that the oil pump in my wet sump bypasses a lot of oil so it  
>> mush have lots more capability than actually needed    Anyone ever  
>> done an experiment where they hook up their dry sump return oil to  
>> a separate tank and just see how much oil is pumped per second? Or  
>> minute or?  Or is there a web site somewhere I might go look for  
>> answers.  I have a project in mind where I want to pump oil through  
>> the motor once only and I am trying to guess how big an oil tank  
>> might be needed for a run of about 2 minutes plus some reserve.
>> mayf.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Land-speed mailing list
>> You are subscribed as rickbyrnes at comcast.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 21:16:20 2009
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:16:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...
In-Reply-To: <BC1813E9-8D0E-457B-B22B-DD8DE18C3865@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <664143.72370.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

With a 7/16" primary pickup at 70 psi you would need a whole crappin' bunch of
oil, Mayf.  Llike maybe thirty gallons! 
 
I know that with a broken oil filter seal you can run 7 quarts out of a hemi
in the length of a suburban driveway.
 
I think they're right Mayf,  you need to take some time off and drive into Las
Vegas for an evening or something. 
 
DickJ
In East Texas
 

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net> wrote:


From: Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...
To: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 9:20 PM


Nothing else to do in Pahrump?

Wes

On Sep 8, 2009, at 7:47 PM, Rick Byrnes wrote:

> OHHHHHMAN
> Doc
> You just got too much time on your hands.....
> :-d
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:28 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...
>
>
>> Just for curiosity sake, just how much oil is actually pumped through a
motor say during a run of 5 miles at  some nominal speed? I know that the oil
pump in my wet sump bypasses a lot of oil so it mush have lots more capability
than actually needed    Anyone ever done an experiment where they hook up
their dry sump return oil to a separate tank and just see how much oil is
pumped per second? Or minute or?  Or is there a web site somewhere I might go
look for answers.  I have a project in mind where I want to pump oil through
the motor once only and I am trying to guess how big an oil tank might be
needed for a run of about 2 minutes plus some reserve.
>> mayf.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Land-speed mailing list
>> You are subscribed as rickbyrnes at comcast.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as lsr_man at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dlodom at charter.net  Tue Sep  8 21:50:11 2009
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:50:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...
References: <4AA704C7.8090707@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <00cc01ca3100$a3cb4850$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Mayf, I remember when dry sumps first came to nascar looking inside the tank 
with the motor running. At fast idle it looked like a garden hose with water 
coming out turned on full. I think there is a lot more oil going through the 
motor than you would imagine.

Doug in big ditch


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:28 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...


> Just for curiosity sake, just how much oil is actually pumped through a 
> motor say during a run of 5 miles at  some nominal speed? I know that the 
> oil pump in my wet sump bypasses a lot of oil so it mush have lots more 
> capability than actually needed    Anyone ever done an experiment where 
> they hook up their dry sump return oil to a separate tank and just see how 
> much oil is pumped per second? Or minute or?  Or is there a web site 
> somewhere I might go look for answers.  I have a project in mind where I 
> want to pump oil through the motor once only and I am trying to guess how 
> big an oil tank might be needed for a run of about 2 minutes plus some 
> reserve.
>
> mayf.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as dlodom at charter.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From FFR554 at aol.com  Tue Sep  8 22:37:44 2009
From: FFR554 at aol.com (FFR554 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 00:37:44 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd:  An Oily Question...
Message-ID: <c0e.59e421ee.37d88b18@aol.com>

FYI
 
  
____________________________________
 From: FFR554
To: dlodom at charter.net
Sent: 9/8/2009 9:35:19 P.M. Pacific  Daylight Time
Subj: Re: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...


On the Dyno a 360 cu in SB Chev, dry sump pumps 10 to 12+ gal per  minute 
at 7000 rpm.  Some engines may pump a greater amount.
 
Bruce
 
 
In a message dated 9/8/2009 8:59:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
dlodom at charter.net writes:

Mayf,  I remember when dry sumps first came to nascar looking inside the 
tank  
with the motor running. At fast idle it looked like a garden hose with  
water 
coming out turned on full. I think there is a lot more oil going  through 
the 
motor than you would imagine.

Doug in big  ditch


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf"  <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR"  <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:28  PM
Subject: [Land-speed] An Oily Question...


> Just for  curiosity sake, just how much oil is actually pumped through a 
>  motor say during a run of 5 miles at  some nominal speed? I know that  
the 
> oil pump in my wet sump bypasses a lot of oil so it mush have  lots more 
> capability than actually needed    Anyone ever  done an experiment where 
> they hook up their dry sump return oil to  a separate tank and just see 
how 
> much oil is pumped per second? Or  minute or?  Or is there a web site 
> somewhere I might go look  for answers.  I have a project in mind where I 
> want to pump  oil through the motor once only and I am trying to guess 
how 
> big an  oil tank might be needed for a run of about 2 minutes plus some 
>  reserve.
>
> mayf.
>  _______________________________________________
> Support  Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed  mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as  dlodom at charter.net
>
>  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing  list

You are subscribed as  ffr554 at aol.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



 
____________________________________

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Sep  9 10:35:53 2009
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:35:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 316 stainless steel boat hardware
References: <c0e.59e421ee.37d88b18@aol.com>
Message-ID: <53085E57798542DAA7C744218CC99E5D@edc2750afa5a84>

Check out www.marinepartdepot.com
I ran into this outfit a while back.  They sell polished 316 stainless steel 
deck hardware for boats at really great prices. Obviously most is for boats 
only; but some of the items have applications for our stuff that spends a 
lot of time at Bonneville  I'm thinking more of support vehicles than the 
race cars although there may be a few uses there.
How about a 1/4 x 1-1/2 stainless quick release pin for $1.99? 
http://www.marinepartdepot.com/newststqurep.html.
Or a 316  4" carabiner (700 lb safe working load) ($4.78) for your tow 
strap?  http://www.marinepartdepot.com/new316ststca.html
Best I can figure is that this guy has lined up some foundry in Asia that 
investment casts this stuff for him at real low wholesale prices.  I've 
ordered some items from him for my boat as well as a couple of flush pull 
rings to mount in my pickup tailgate for tiedowns and they look like good 
stuff.
316 stainless steel is a lot better for corrosion resistance to salt water 
than the common 18-8 stainless.  It's also stronger and a bit of a bear to 
machine unless you have pretty high quality cutting tools and plenty of 
power behind them.
I'm placing a small order with him today (Sept 9) because it is the last day 
of his free shipping deal.
Ed Weldon

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Sep 10 08:16:48 2009
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:16:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: September Breakfast Reminder
Message-ID: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D0562E540@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>

Hi kids,
Follows is the breakfast reminder sent out for our local group, with a reply
from a friend.

To avoid the risk of getting all warm and fuzzy, I'll remind you to take it
out and play with it . . .

Best to all,

David in Durango






>
>
> This Saturday, September 12 will be our motorhead breakfast.
>
>
>
> As always, 8ight-ish at the Kennebec Cafi.  Hope to see you there, Drive
> Safely!
>
>


Hi...........

Thank you for the message !!!

Can't make it.  Awaiting cancer diagnosis in Houston.

Enjoy your life and your vehicles at every opportunity.  Never know when
the hammer will fall !!

Take care !!

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Sep 10 18:25:17 2009
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:25:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: September Breakfast Reminder
In-Reply-To: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D0562E540@chimsx015.CHI.catho
	lichealth.net>
References: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D0562E540@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <20090911002447.0290A187649@autox.team.net>

David,
Please keep us posted on the Houston results...........
Skip




At 07:16 AM 9/10/2009, Adin, David wrote:
>Hi kids,
>Follows is the breakfast reminder sent out for our local group, with a reply
>from a friend.
>
>To avoid the risk of getting all warm and fuzzy, I'll remind you to take it
>out and play with it . . .
>
>Best to all,
>
>David in Durango
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > This Saturday, September 12 will be our motorhead breakfast.
> >
> >
> >
> > As always, 8ight-ish at the Kennebec Cafi.  Hope to see you there, Drive
> > Safely!
> >
> >
>
>
>Hi...........
>
>Thank you for the message !!!
>
>Can't make it.  Awaiting cancer diagnosis in Houston.
>
>Enjoy your life and your vehicles at every opportunity.  Never know when
>the hammer will fall !!
>
>Take care !!

From adin at frontier.net  Thu Sep 10 20:17:26 2009
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:17:26 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: September Breakfast Reminder
References: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D0562E540@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>
	<20090911002447.0290A187649@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <03F3EA7B16984AD3A18248697DA4583C@ZTxp>

Absolutely - to be clear: it is NOT me, but a good friend.  I hope folks 
remember to get out and play and see friends and enjoy loveds ones!

Best to all - see you on the salt!

David
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
Cc: <land-speed at Autox.Team.Net>; "panteras" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] FW: September Breakfast Reminder


> David,
> Please keep us posted on the Houston results...........
> Skip
>
>
>
>
> At 07:16 AM 9/10/2009, Adin, David wrote:
>>Hi kids,
>>Follows is the breakfast reminder sent out for our local group, with a 
>>reply
>>from a friend.
>>
>>To avoid the risk of getting all warm and fuzzy, I'll remind you to take 
>>it
>>out and play with it . . .
>>
>>Best to all,
>>
>>David in Durango
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > This Saturday, September 12 will be our motorhead breakfast.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > As always, 8ight-ish at the Kennebec Cafi.  Hope to see you there, 
>> > Drive
>> > Safely!
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>Hi...........
>>
>>Thank you for the message !!!
>>
>>Can't make it.  Awaiting cancer diagnosis in Houston.
>>
>>Enjoy your life and your vehicles at every opportunity.  Never know when
>>the hammer will fall !!
>>
>>Take care !!
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 11 06:59:51 2009
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:59:51 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Almost got it right.
Message-ID: <44155A63-BBC8-45DD-9525-5D9017CB24C2@comcast.net>

http://universe.byu.edu/node/1727

From adin at frontier.net  Fri Sep 11 07:09:02 2009
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:09:02 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Almost got it right.
References: <44155A63-BBC8-45DD-9525-5D9017CB24C2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <93D3C02D06C24FE0B574BF8493EC3C45@ZTxp>

Never trust someone else to say what you mean.

Yes, you can quote me.

also, when asked to explain jazz, Mr Armstong once quipped: "Man, if I have 
to explain it to you, you ain't never goin' to get it."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:59 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Almost got it right.


> http://universe.byu.edu/node/1727
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 11 12:23:07 2009
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:23:07 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Almost got it right.
In-Reply-To: <44155A63-BBC8-45DD-9525-5D9017CB24C2@comcast.net>
References: <44155A63-BBC8-45DD-9525-5D9017CB24C2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <54B52B92-465B-42F1-A8FA-389EA1B73FCB@comcast.net>

We will have under 150 entries for the long course.  I told the  
reporter that.  He almost got it right.  Perhaps he got the 500 number  
from one of the others he interviewed while they were talking about  
other events on the salt.

Wes

On Sep 11, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Wester Potter wrote:

>
>
> http://universe.byu.edu/node/1727

From saltfevr at q.com  Fri Sep 11 20:42:57 2009
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:42:57 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Here She Comes To N.Y. Harbor....Never Forget(non
	lsr)
In-Reply-To: <9d76844c0909111147v187f0be1v129ccebab9b2b43a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA7682.000007.03424@SCARLET-PC> <C6D00B82.176B2%jbalsam@ptd.net>
	<9d76844c0909111145s60d718e1o8c01e7ad5164917b@mail.gmail.com> 
	<9d76844c0909111147v187f0be1v129ccebab9b2b43a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W42132068C25DAE76D4B65FC9E60@phx.gbl>

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah






Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:47:55 -0400
Subject: Here She Comes To N.Y. Harbor....Never Forget









NEVER FORGET...!!!
She will be arriving in NY harbor on Nov 1, 2009 and commissioned in the US
Navy Nov. 7.
If you are planning a trip to NY, you will be able to tour the ship during
that week.

Here she is














Here SHE is, the USS New York, made from the

World   Trade   Center !






USS New York


It was built with 24 tons of scrap steel from the  World   Trade   Center.

It is the fifth in a new class of warship - designed for missions that include
special operations against terrorists. It will carry a crew of 360 sailors and
700 combat-ready Marines to be delivered ashore by helicopters and assault
craft.

Steel from the   World   Trade   Center   was melted down in a foundry in
Amite,   LA to cast the ship's bow section.  When it was poured into the molds
on Sept 9, 2003, 'those big rough steelworkers treated it with total
reverence,' recalled Navy Capt. Kevin Wensing, who was there. 'It was a
spiritual moment for everybody there.'


Junior Chavers, foundry operations manager, said that when the trade center
steel first arrived, he touched it with his hand and the 'hair on my neck
stood up.' 'It had a big meaning to it for all of us,' he said 'They knocked
us down. They can't keep us down.We're going to be back.'


The ship's motto? 'Never Forget'

Please keep this so everyone can see what we are made of in this country!  (











































--
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret
Mead, Anthropologist 1901-1978 - Jackee

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]

From saltfevr at q.com  Fri Sep 11 21:21:09 2009
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:21:09 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Here She Comes To N.Y. Harbor....Never
 Forget(non	lsr)
In-Reply-To: <BAY122-W42132068C25DAE76D4B65FC9E60@phx.gbl>
References: <4AAA7682.000007.03424@SCARLET-PC> <C6D00B82.176B2%jbalsam@ptd.net>
	<9d76844c0909111145s60d718e1o8c01e7ad5164917b@mail.gmail.com> 
	<9d76844c0909111147v187f0be1v129ccebab9b2b43a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<BAY122-W42132068C25DAE76D4B65FC9E60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W39D12A1B145677AF389AB5C9E60@phx.gbl>

List;



I forgot the email list can't do pictures. Heres a link from Snoped featuring
the USS New York.

BTW, hope to see many of you at World of Speed!

http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/ussnewyork.asp

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> From: saltfevr at q.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:42:57 -0600
> Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Here She Comes To N.Y. Harbor....Never Forget(non
lsr)
>
> Tom Shannon
> Magna, Utah
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:47:55 -0400
> Subject: Here She Comes To N.Y. Harbor....Never Forget
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> NEVER FORGET...!!!
> She will be arriving in NY harbor on Nov 1, 2009 and commissioned in the US
> Navy Nov. 7.
> If you are planning a trip to NY, you will be able to tour the ship during
> that week.
>
> Here she is
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Here SHE is, the USS New York, made from the
>
> World Trade Center !
>
>
>
>
>
>
> USS New York
>
>
> It was built with 24 tons of scrap steel from the World Trade Center.
>
> It is the fifth in a new class of warship - designed for missions that
include
> special operations against terrorists. It will carry a crew of 360 sailors
and
> 700 combat-ready Marines to be delivered ashore by helicopters and assault
> craft.
>
> Steel from the World Trade Center was melted down in a foundry in
> Amite, LA to cast the ship's bow section. When it was poured into the molds
> on Sept 9, 2003, 'those big rough steelworkers treated it with total
> reverence,' recalled Navy Capt. Kevin Wensing, who was there. 'It was a
> spiritual moment for everybody there.'
>
>
> Junior Chavers, foundry operations manager, said that when the trade center
> steel first arrived, he touched it with his hand and the 'hair on my neck
> stood up.' 'It had a big meaning to it for all of us,' he said 'They
knocked
> us down. They can't keep us down.We're going to be back.'
>
>
> The ship's motto? 'Never Forget'
>
> Please keep this so everyone can see what we are made of in this country! (
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
> change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret
> Mead, Anthropologist 1901-1978 - Jackee
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sat Sep 12 08:15:23 2009
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:15:23 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Here She Comes To N.Y. Harbor....Never
 Forget(non lsr)
Message-ID: <cce.582b5c7d.37dd06fb@aol.com>

For those of us that are attachment challenged, here's the website..
_http://www.ussny.org/_ (http://www.ussny.org/) 
 
Bob W 

From saltfevr at q.com  Sat Sep 12 22:30:08 2009
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:30:08 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Here She Comes To N.Y. Harbor....Never
 Forget(non lsr)
In-Reply-To: <cce.582b5c7d.37dd06fb@aol.com>
References: <cce.582b5c7d.37dd06fb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W32DA40550A8B4337B1CED0C9E50@phx.gbl>

Bob;



Thanks for the link! The Navy son is now a recruiter in Northern Utah. Anybody
wanna re-up? LOL

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah






From: BWANA343 at aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:15:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] FW: Here She Comes To N.Y. Harbor....Never
Forget(non lsr)
To: saltfevr at q.com; land-speed at autox.team.net


For those of us that are attachment challenged, here's the website..
http://www.ussny.org/

Bob W

From mark at bradakis.com  Sun Sep 13 14:35:47 2009
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:35:47 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Whining time, Team.Net updates
Message-ID: <20090913203547.4F4CB2E059@bradakis.com>

Yes, I know that as the fellow behind the curtain who
keeps Team.Net on the air, I do my share of whining.
But the whining here is coming from one of the disks
on the server, a bearing ready to fail in a few days,
a couple of weeks, maybe not until 2010.  Who knows?

Rather than risk a sudden failure, it would be prudent
to consider getting new hardware.  And that is where you
come in.  I didn't have an official fund drive this year,
though donations have come in at random times during the
year.  Got one just the other day from someone on this
list.

It seems to be time for those of you who have not
recently contributed to step up and assist in keeping
Team.Net on the air.  If you have a few dollars to spare
and desire to support this endeavor, check out the web
page http://www.team.net/donate.html  I, and thousands
of folks around the planet would appreciate it.  Gee, I
haven't taken an actual count of all subscribers lately,
I ought to do a headcount.

On a related note, I have been doing a few things, like
moving a few more lists from majordomo to mailman.  Back
when I started doing this about 20 years ago majordomo
was the hot ticket.  It is a bit outdated now, mailman is
much more web friendly, hopefully much easier for you
folks to use.  Of course, there are those who still try
to use majordomo to manage their mailman subscriptions,
not much I can do about that!

One thing I did was change the judson list, which was
intended for discussion of classic Judson superchargers
to superchargers at autox.team.net, opening it up for folks
to discuss other brands.  Feel free to go to the mailman
page, http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo to sign up if
you so desire.

Actually I had hoped more folks would sign up for the-local
list, a place for random discussion about all sorts of stuff.
Tell a joke, review a movie, report the antics of your favorite
public idiot, lament the last loss of your team, whatever.

If there is a list you'd like to see, chances are I'd set one
up, no problem.

But for now, consider this an Official Team.Net fund drive,
and assist as you can: http://www.team.net/donate.html

Thanks!

mjb.

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Sep 13 20:13:03 2009
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:13:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Whining time, Team.Net updates
In-Reply-To: <20090913203547.4F4CB2E059@bradakis.com>
References: <20090913203547.4F4CB2E059@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <4AADA6AF.1090607@wildblue.net>

Mark,

I've been in the computer (IBM) biz since 1963 and worked with PC's 
1982. Working in
Silicon Valley, I knew where and how to get deals that were, 
occasionally, better than
small dealers could get.

The last 8 months have presented greater value for the money than I 
thought possible.
There couldn't be a better time. Ever.

NOTE: 95-99% of ALL "Returns" marked "Refurbished" are new equipment 
returned by
dealers. Circuit City  returned train loads of stuff when they went 
belly up. WD is almost
giving away drives. Newegg has a Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB 3.5" 
for only $84.99
with free shipping, for example.

I'll send you enough to get one,
Bryan





Mark J Bradakis wrote:
> Yes, I know that as the fellow behind the curtain who
> keeps Team.Net on the air, I do my share of whining.
> But the whining here is coming from one of the disks
> on the server, a bearing ready to fail in a few days,
> a couple of weeks, maybe not until 2010.  Who knows?
> 
> Rather than risk a sudden failure, it would be prudent
> to consider getting new hardware.  And that is where you
> come in.  I didn't have an official fund drive this year,
> though donations have come in at random times during the
> year.  Got one just the other day from someone on this
> list.
> 
> It seems to be time for those of you who have not
> recently contributed to step up and assist in keeping
> Team.Net on the air.  If you have a few dollars to spare
> and desire to support this endeavor, check out the web
> page http://www.team.net/donate.html  I, and thousands
> of folks around the planet would appreciate it.  Gee, I
> haven't taken an actual count of all subscribers lately,
> I ought to do a headcount.

From jdincau at qnet.com  Mon Sep 14 12:51:37 2009
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:51:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Traction at Bonneville
Message-ID: <0D94BD88BB954BC2A91CEE234A04BB2A@denpc>

FWIW
     This year at Speedweek my brother made a rig to drag a piece of tire 
tread on the salt and measure the force required. He says;

>From my testing, Bonneville traction is roughly 67% of dry concrete, which 
is the same as dry Asphalt.

Again your mileage may vary.
Jim in Palmdale 

From benn at sonic.net  Mon Sep 14 13:25:32 2009
From: benn at sonic.net (Benn)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:25:32 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Traction at Bonneville
References: <0D94BD88BB954BC2A91CEE234A04BB2A@denpc>
Message-ID: <F1B51BC47EA34E3F8B06815F5D9F6CB6@BennsDesktop>

So, assuming dry concrete has a coefficient of friction of 0.7-1.0, it 
sounds like the coefficient of friction is about 0.5 to 0.7, which would 
correspond at the upper end to worn, smooth asphalt or concrete with typical 
street tires.  And of course, like other aspects of life, you still have to 
watch out for the "wet spots".
Benn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
To: "land Speed List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:51 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Traction at Bonneville


> FWIW
>     This year at Speedweek my brother made a rig to drag a piece of tire 
> tread on the salt and measure the force required. He says;
>
>>From my testing, Bonneville traction is roughly 67% of dry concrete, which
> is the same as dry Asphalt.
>
> Again your mileage may vary.
> Jim in Palmdale _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as benn at sonic.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Sep 14 15:23:51 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:23:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
Message-ID: <4AAEB467.3080506@mayfco.com>

Just been looking at the weather radar for Wendover. Looks like a lot of 
rain from thunderstorms. Anyone have any current real time information 
of what it is like on the salt?

USFRA?

mayf

From Turborick at Turborick.com  Mon Sep 14 16:09:53 2009
From: Turborick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:09:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fire Bottles ( LOOK )
In-Reply-To: <4AAEB467.3080506@mayfco.com>
References: <4AAEB467.3080506@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <00c201ca3588$16693b20$433bb160$@com>

I was advised Sat at El Mirage that there are many coldfire fire bottles
that have a "for use with Halon only" pressure gage
I have coldfire and sure enough my gages are "for use with Halon only". if
you look at the front of the gage at the very bottom it says "for use with
Halon only".
The problem is that the internals of the gage rust with the coldfire so when
the bottle looses pressure the gage will stay in the green
also when you get your bottles re certified they could weigh correctly with
no pressure.
2 competitors had this problem at Bonneville this year so check your gages

Rick

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Sep 14 16:19:33 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:19:33 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
In-Reply-To: <4AAEB467.3080506@mayfco.com>
References: <4AAEB467.3080506@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <CE4BB7A6-C111-4074-B158-34F9F437F635@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 14, 2009, at 5:23 PM, drmayf wrote:

> Just been looking at the weather radar for Wendover. Looks like a  
> lot of rain from thunderstorms. Anyone have any current real time  
> information of what it is like on the salt?
>
> USFRA?
>
> mayf
> ___________


Nancy and I are in the apartment we've rented in West Wendover and  
have been making regular weather reports on landracing.com.  Sorry I  
didn't moseyover to this ist with an update.

First of all, it's rained quite a bit in the past six hours.  We've  
been out to the Salt a couple of times and while there's no official  
word yet from Jim Burkdoll, the race director and president of USFRA,  
there's no way that there'll be any racing in the next two days.  One  
of those, tomorrow, is for inspection, anyway, but from what we saw --  
it'll take at least a couple of days for the wind and hot weather to  
dry the salt enough to race.

And that hot weather and wind are only forecast -- not here yet.   
Right now it's breezy but cloudy and still sprinkling on and off.  The  
last time I checked the weather was about an hour ago -- and the  
forecast still called for rain tonight, tomorrow, tomorrow night, and  
Tuesday -- before starting to dry out in time for okay weahter  
Wednesday and hot weather beginning again Thursday.

Take that for what you will.

Weather forecast:

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Wendover&state=UT&site=SLC&textField1=40.7372&textField2=-114.037&e=0

Weather radar:

http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=mtx&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=no


Jon

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Mon Sep 14 16:39:43 2009
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:39:43 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Traction at Bonneville
References: <0D94BD88BB954BC2A91CEE234A04BB2A@denpc>
Message-ID: <000c01ca358c$4331a120$6601a8c0@Rick>

Gee, it is interesting when someone actually tries to measure.
Staggemeir and Eakers performed coastdown tests on the salt in I think 88 
and the data reportedly was something like   0.66  with good dry concrete 
given at 1.0  Salt conditions were hard and dry. (I think)
Physics hasn't changed in 21 years has it?
Did I just say 21 years.  Man doesn't time fly when you are having fun....

Rick
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
To: "land Speed List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Traction at Bonneville


> FWIW
>     This year at Speedweek my brother made a rig to drag a piece of tire 
> tread on the salt and measure the force required. He says;
>
>>From my testing, Bonneville traction is roughly 67% of dry concrete, which
> is the same as dry Asphalt.
>
> Again your mileage may vary.
> Jim in Palmdale _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as rick at rbmotorsports.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Sep 14 17:43:36 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:43:36 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
In-Reply-To: <4AAED1FE.2040603@mayfco.com>
References: <4AAEB467.3080506@mayfco.com>
	<CE4BB7A6-C111-4074-B158-34F9F437F635@nancyandjon.org>
	<4AAED1FE.2040603@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <0C7512CE-1D4F-486A-A90C-68D236E8C856@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 14, 2009, at 7:30 PM, drmayf wrote:

> Thanks, Jon. I have bbeen watching the weathe rthere all day long  
> also. What I on't have is how much rain has fallen. From the radar,  
> it looked like a lot.   While the water migh drain or blow off the  
> actual course, i wont have time to get really hard again. But,  
> Unless they call it off, we are coming! Tomorrow morning at 4 am is  
> our launch time.  Skip HIgginbotham shuold be there about now. He  
> left this mornign at 6 am or that was his plan anyway.
>
> Keep us ALL posted please...
>
> mayf


Yes, it's going to be crowded in town in another few hours.  Jon Amo  
is heading this way, Joe Ledford is in mid-Wyoming, and so on and so  
forth.  We're here, and Todd, our crew chief, should walk in the door  
at any moment -- having flown from Washington DC today.  If nothing  
else we'll have him set up the bike for Maxton -- maybe Texas Mile on  
our way home.

There were a half-dozen vehicles on the salt (in the water) when we  
were out there at noon.  I just saw a post from someone that was out  
there a half-hour ago -- says there's water visible from Land's End.   
We'll keep up the reports.

Nancy and Jon

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Sep 14 17:54:29 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:54:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Traction at Bonneville
In-Reply-To: <000c01ca358c$4331a120$6601a8c0@Rick>
References: <0D94BD88BB954BC2A91CEE234A04BB2A@denpc>
	<000c01ca358c$4331a120$6601a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <4AAED7B5.2060706@mayfco.com>

I did salt coefficient tests up there one year when I was just messing 
around. I made a test rig and I ran the test every 15 m inutes for an 
entire day. The 0.66 is pretty much what I got as well, mine was 0.68.  
I did find that it changed during the hday though. Satrting low getting 
better then going low then getting better then as the sun went down 
getting worse.  It was a double hump curve. HAd something to do with 
water percolation up with the heat and then druying out faster that it 
could pecolate then as  the wate rose, went down. SOme where I may have 
the data.  It just confirmed what was intuitively known.

mayf
Rick Byrnes wrote:

> Gee, it is interesting when someone actually tries to measure.
> Staggemeir and Eakers performed coastdown tests on the salt in I think 
> 88 and the data reportedly was something like   0.66  with good dry 
> concrete given at 1.0  Salt conditions were hard and dry. (I think)
> Physics hasn't changed in 21 years has it?
> Did I just say 21 years.  Man doesn't time fly when you are having 
> fun....
>
> Rick
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
> To: "land Speed List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:51 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Traction at Bonneville
>
>
>> FWIW
>>     This year at Speedweek my brother made a rig to drag a piece of 
>> tire tread on the salt and measure the force required. He says;
>>
>>> From my testing, Bonneville traction is roughly 67% of dry concrete, 
>>> which
>>
>> is the same as dry Asphalt.
>>
>> Again your mileage may vary.
>> Jim in Palmdale _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> You are subscribed as rick at rbmotorsports.com
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Sep 14 21:10:08 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:10:08 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] World of Speed Update
Message-ID: <BF3FCBBB-32AD-4A99-8487-1EE550F99C85@nancyandjon.org>

Here's a copy of what I just posted on the landracing.com site Forum:

"It's about bedtime -- here's today's last update from us.

It's mellow out there right now, and partly cloudy.  The weather  
forecast still has a 50% chance of rain tonight and 40% tomorrow.

If you haven't already seen it -- go to www.saltflats.com, the USFRA  
site, and you'll find their announcement that there will be a decision  
about whther the event will be cancelled or not -- tomorrow at 10AM.   
I've heard here that there'll be inspecting on the pavement at Land's  
End starting first thing in the morning -- in case we're going to  
race.  I've received no calls from USFRA folks to give me any  
information on the event so I can't report anything "more official"  
than what I've already said.

We went to supper with Todd Dross and when we got out of the Stateline  
it was too dark to see much -- so we didn't go out to Land's End for a  
last look for you.

Ed Van Scoy and Linda called from Ely a few hours ago -- still headed  
this way.

It looks and sounds like most everyone has faith that there'll be an  
event -- they're all on the way here.  I haven't heard from anyone  
that has turned back.

That's all for now, folks.  See you in the morning."

Take it for what you will.  I hope to see some of you on the salt  
tomorrow or at least later this week.

Jon

From rbuck at xmission.com  Tue Sep 15 11:19:40 2009
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:19:40 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] World of Speed Update
In-Reply-To: <BF3FCBBB-32AD-4A99-8487-1EE550F99C85@nancyandjon.org>
References: <BF3FCBBB-32AD-4A99-8487-1EE550F99C85@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <E1MnbhG-0004yY-97@in01.mta.xmission.com>

And here's what I just posted on landracing:

I just got a call from SSS (Jon) who said that some vehicle 
inspection is taking place at Land's End although that location may 
be "abandoned" and further tech done "at the hotel" although he 
wasn't sure which one.

Apparently things are looking better rather than worse and the 
tentative plan is to continue tech on Wednesday, then race on Thursday.

Ohh...and I need to remember to bring the tomatoes that Texican 
prepared for him and were left behind by Pork Pie.  (Real hot news scoop, huh?)

My plans for the moment are to take a nap, replace the brake pads in 
the Burb, then head out tomorrow morning...assuming that nothing 
changes drastically while I'm napping.


G'nite (morning?)

RtR



At 09:10 PM 9/14/2009, Jon Wennerberg wrote:
>Here's a copy of what I just posted on the landracing.com site Forum:
>
>"It's about bedtime -- here's today's last update from us.
>
>It's mellow out there right now, and partly cloudy.  The weather
>forecast still has a 50% chance of rain tonight and 40% tomorrow.
>
>If you haven't already seen it -- go to www.saltflats.com, the USFRA
>site, and you'll find their announcement that there will be a decision
>about whther the event will be cancelled or not -- tomorrow at 10AM.
>I've heard here that there'll be inspecting on the pavement at Land's
>End starting first thing in the morning -- in case we're going to
>race.  I've received no calls from USFRA folks to give me any
>information on the event so I can't report anything "more official"
>than what I've already said.
>
>We went to supper with Todd Dross and when we got out of the Stateline
>it was too dark to see much -- so we didn't go out to Land's End for a
>last look for you.
>
>Ed Van Scoy and Linda called from Ely a few hours ago -- still headed
>this way.
>
>It looks and sounds like most everyone has faith that there'll be an
>event -- they're all on the way here.  I haven't heard from anyone
>that has turned back.
>
>That's all for now, folks.  See you in the morning."
>
>Take it for what you will.  I hope to see some of you on the salt
>tomorrow or at least later this week.
>
>Jon
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as rbuck at xmission.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From desotoman at dslextreme.com  Tue Sep 15 13:39:16 2009
From: desotoman at dslextreme.com (desotoman @dslextreme.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:39:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Traction at Bonneville
Message-ID: <51a5f2e00909151239n1ff50818xd034b6585f823bc9@mail.gmail.com>

For those of you that don't know, this is on the USFRA website. It pretty
much sums up what traction on the Salt is like, and how it varies.

Tom Gerardi

http://www.saltflats.com/traction.html

From dlodom at charter.net  Tue Sep 15 18:43:49 2009
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:43:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fire Bottles ( LOOK )
References: <4AAEB467.3080506@mayfco.com> <00c201ca3588$16693b20$433bb160$@com>
Message-ID: <02cb01ca3666$c25a91c0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Rick, Thanks for the heads up. I checked all my Firefox bottles and they are 
good.    Doug Odom in big ditch





Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:09 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Fire Bottles ( LOOK )


>I was advised Sat at El Mirage that there are many coldfire fire bottles
> that have a "for use with Halon only" pressure gage
> I have coldfire and sure enough my gages are "for use with Halon only". if
> you look at the front of the gage at the very bottom it says "for use with
> Halon only".
> The problem is that the internals of the gage rust with the coldfire so 
> when
> the bottle looses pressure the gage will stay in the green
> also when you get your bottles re certified they could weigh correctly 
> with
> no pressure.
> 2 competitors had this problem at Bonneville this year so check your gages
>
> Rick

From rbuck at xmission.com  Wed Sep 16 06:57:18 2009
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 06:57:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] World of Speed Update
In-Reply-To: <SNT108-W52E00620CF43C4AA8D2CE5D9E30@phx.gbl>
References: <BF3FCBBB-32AD-4A99-8487-1EE550F99C85@nancyandjon.org>
	<E1MnbhG-0004yY-97@in01.mta.xmission.com>
	<SNT108-W52E00620CF43C4AA8D2CE5D9E30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E1Mnu2R-0001un-Kr@in01.mta.xmission.com>

Well, if they actually run the event, I sure
will.  We should know around 10 am salt flats time.

RtR

At 04:24 PM 9/15/2009, Doug ............. wrote:


>   Hey RtR   take lotsa pichers forus!
>
>
>
>          c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug '
>
>
>   105.4 + miles south of the world famous 'Syracuse Mile
>
>   241.4  miles north of the Williams Grove Speedway pit gate
>
>   2243.3  or so miles due east of the marvelous Bonneville Salt Flats
>
>but never more than a few feet from a cold one
>
>
>
>    Dog Training,  Bear neutering,  Cold Beer, & Hot Blues.
>
>    Speedway Bikes, Minibikes and  Harley- D's
> rode with equal joy. Airship repair,
>
>    Aerial Surveillance.  Corrupt Politicians
> investigated and indicted. Hot air.
>
>    Midgets, Sprint Cars  -and 'Slide
> Jobs'  truly appreciated  for the  FINE ART  that they are

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Wed Sep 16 12:29:21 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:29:21 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] World of Speed update
Message-ID: <FACA9231-8BB5-4C9D-BBEF-CD313D4F3475@nancyandjon.org>

Well, we'll have a race course -- tomorrow (Thursday).  Here's the  
latest scoop:

Things are drying nicely.  We will not have any access to the salt  
today, Wednesday, but tomorrow morning we'll be allowed out there to  
set up the pits.  The drivers meeting will be tomorrow, and racing  
will start tomorrow.

The course will be a fuyll long course -- seven good miles now, and  
Jim Burkdoll, race director, is heading out to drag from the 7 to the  
9 to give lots of run-off/back door room.

The pits are much smaller, as usual, than at SpeedWeek -- but when we  
were there they weren't very wet at all.  There was a bit of standing  
water -- small puddles, maybe a foot or so in diameter -- with very  
wet and glistening salt on the surface.  I wouldn't care to set up the  
pit today.

But -- we'll be ready for tomorrow.  Yee-hah, we're gonna race --  
assuming, that is, that the weather turns out as per the forecast --  
which is nice and warm and sunny and mild winds.

For photos go to the forum on landracing.com and look at the "World  
Off Speed Results" topic.

Jon

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Wed Sep 16 16:58:34 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:58:34 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt update -- Tuesday afternoon
Message-ID: <76BEE13A-F0E6-437C-8CE3-0B1D4EAA18F3@nancyandjon.org>

Here it is -- the latest.  We're going to have a full-length event,  
but starting racing one day later.  We'll race all day Saturday and  
half of Sunday -- there's the extra day.  Tomorrow we'lll finally be  
able to go to the pits to set up, have a drivers meeting, then start  
racing immediately thereafter.

The course will be a full 7 miles long, with about two more of okay  
salt for those who might need it.  There'll be the usual sep[arate  
course for the 130 Club.

The course is still damp -- some standing water here and there, but  
getting better by the hour.  The pits have standing water at the  
extreme west (mountain side) border, but otherwise are dry enough to  
set up.  The water on the salt is still wet enough (vs. damp and  
sticky) that none sticks to the tires and underbody of the pickup.  I  
hope it gets way drier on the race course, of course -- it's wet  
enough right now to be really slick.

Nice turnout -- the Vesco #444 'liner is here, a bunch of the regulars  
(Ed Van Scoy and Bob Ragsdale come to mind, and Joe Amo and his bike,  
and Jon is here, too, as well, of course, as Nancy who'll try to bump  
her record to over 200 on our production bike).  A fair turnout of 130  
Club cars and bikes, the batch of Austin Healeys and the group of Mini  
Coopers.

I could go on, but you get the idea.  It looks, in review, that all  
will be fine at World of Speed 2009.

Later --

Jon

From david_dymaxion at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 01:35:10 2009
From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com (David Dymaxion)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 00:35:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Free wireless internet in Wendover?
Message-ID: <954655.94527.qm@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Subject line says it all. Thanks.

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Thu Sep 17 07:28:22 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:28:22 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Free wireless internet in Wendover?
In-Reply-To: <954655.94527.qm@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <954655.94527.qm@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1C7D2620-3F45-4771-A2BB-0F17538290B2@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 17, 2009, at 3:35 AM, David Dymaxion wrote:

> Subject line says it all. Thanks.

City-wide?  Wendover, Utah -- and/or West Wendover, NV?  We're in W.  
Wendover (near Smith's grocery store) and there's no free wi-fi here.   
I know the West Wendover Welcome Center has free wi-fi -- but that's  
only at the Center and in the parking lot.

Have you any details?  I'd like ot share the information with others  
out here -- but don't have time to go out in the truck and drive  
around to find it.

Thanks -- Jon

From rbuck at xmission.com  Thu Sep 17 09:33:39 2009
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:33:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Free wireless internet in Wendover?
In-Reply-To: <954655.94527.qm@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <954655.94527.qm@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E1MoIzS-0003ea-GN@in01.mta.xmission.com>

At 01:35 AM 9/17/2009, David Dymaxion wrote:
>Subject line says it all. Thanks.

OSU is here with the Buckeye Bullet 2...they didn't bring their 
satellite dish like they did last year., but they have a cellular air 
card setup with a router so there's some sort of connectivity 
there.  I'm using my own air card with my laptop.

Ray the Rat

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Thu Sep 17 17:05:03 2009
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:05:03 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] GM Mesa AZ LSR ?
Message-ID: <d44.53823251.37e41a9f@aol.com>

Page 14 of the latest HotRod mag announces the closing of the GM Mesa, AZ  
proving grounds. They built a new one near Yuma on leased US Army land, with 
the  stipulation the Army also gets to use it for testing. 
I Googled and found 
_http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=GM+Mesa+AZ&fb=1&hq=GM&hnear=Mesa+AZ&cid=0,0,10228285032467850468&ei=lb-
yStXmC4nIlAfdz6jvDg&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1_ 
(http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=GM+Mesa+AZ&fb=1&hq=GM&hnear=Mes
a+AZ&cid=0,0,10228285032467850468&ei=lb-yStXm
C4nIlAfdz6jvDg&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1) .
That double straightaway with looped ends is three miles, LSR fans. Paved,  
methinks. 
Anybody care  to check this out ? 
Bob W 

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Thu Sep 17 19:05:32 2009
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:05:32 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] GM Mesa AZ LSR ?
References: <d44.53823251.37e41a9f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000601ca37fc$1f8ea9d0$6601a8c0@Rick>

AND
Ford "sold" the Kingman Az. proving ground, and is using the Volvo site, 
wherever that is.
Kingman has a 5 mile oval.  I've driven it many times in the old gas turbine 
trucks.
I don't know if it is being used.
Another to check out.

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Thu Sep 17 20:59:45 2009
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:59:45 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] GM Mesa AZ LSR ?
Message-ID: <d54.5b1f294a.37e451a1@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/17/2009 9:48:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
Rick at RBMotorsports.com writes:

AND
Ford "sold" the Kingman Az. proving ground, and is using the  Volvo site, 
wherever that is.
Kingman has a 5 mile oval.  I've  driven it many times in the old gas 
turbine 
trucks.
I don't know if it  is being used.
Another to check out.



Actually Yucca, Az. Only two miles straightaway. 
Like you said, nice big oval, though. 
BW

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Fri Sep 18 19:51:45 2009
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:51:45 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] GM Mesa AZ LSR ?
Message-ID: <c56.62fcf7e5.37e59331@aol.com>

Just one more place I read about some time back, the VW test facility in  
Germany. 
It's got a straight-away over 4 miles long, looks to be only about 40 ft  
wide though. 
Just north of the town in this address.
 
_http://maps.google.com/maps?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS257&q=Ehra-Less
ien+germany&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Ehra-Lessien,+Germany&ei=gjW0SvD2MIeutgf
C8NGiDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1_ 
(http://maps.google.com/maps?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS257&q=Ehra-Lessien+germany&um=1&ie=UTF-8&
hq=&hnear=Ehra-Lessien,+Germany&ei=gjW0SvD2MIeutgfC8NGiDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_re
sult&ct=image&resnum=1) 
 
Something for the European LSR guys to check out. It's in the former East  
Germany, they'd love to have tourists, I'd think. 
Bob W 

From saltfevr at q.com  Fri Sep 18 22:20:56 2009
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:20:56 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Free wireless internet in Wendover?
In-Reply-To: <1C7D2620-3F45-4771-A2BB-0F17538290B2@nancyandjon.org>
References: <954655.94527.qm@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1C7D2620-3F45-4771-A2BB-0F17538290B2@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W1910071730DBAE866F9A0CC9DF0@phx.gbl>

Jon:

USFRA rooms have wi fi at our Rainbow Rooms! No pot ' o gold though!

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org
> To: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:28:22 -0400
> CC: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Free wireless internet in Wendover?
>
> On Sep 17, 2009, at 3:35 AM, David Dymaxion wrote:
>
> > Subject line says it all. Thanks.
>
> City-wide? Wendover, Utah -- and/or West Wendover, NV? We're in W.
> Wendover (near Smith's grocery store) and there's no free wi-fi here.
> I know the West Wendover Welcome Center has free wi-fi -- but that's
> only at the Center and in the parking lot.
>
> Have you any details? I'd like ot share the information with others
> out here -- but don't have time to go out in the truck and drive
> around to find it.
>
> Thanks -- Jon
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From rbuck at xmission.com  Fri Sep 18 22:53:53 2009
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:53:53 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] A "Rat's Pix" page from World of Speed
Message-ID: <E1MorvB-0007yi-Cx@in02.mta.xmission.com>

I'm back home for the moment.  I left the salt around 5 pm 
Friday.  It's 10:30 now.  I transferred the files from the laptop to 
the main box and threw a quick web thingie together:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/lsr/bsf2009/wos/pix/Welcome.html

It was a hard workin 2.5 days.  And it ain't gonna get a lot easier 
for about 10 days.  Rolex Grand-Am tomorrow, then back to the salt 
for the Shootout.  I might get a half-day off if they take extra time 
to set that up.

There were several records broken, but I really didn't have time to 
get into the speeds/records.  I was pretty much on my own, since the 
owner of landracing (Seldom Seen Slim, aka Jon Wennerberg, for whom I 
was working) was busy getting his wife, Nancy into the 200 mph club 
on a Hayabusa.  She ran 204 today (I missed the run cuz I took a 
potty break...dammit!) and has to run 206 tomorrow to break the 
record over 200.  It's a slightly strange deal, but that's the way they run it.

There were a few scares...the worst one was Bob Johnson in his Caddy 
XLR-S (I think) who had broken the C/Gas Modified Sports record at 
Speed week and was trying to get the Fuel record by adding a little 
nitro to the mix.  He'd just run 257 to qualify for the record and 
all he had to do was stop, turn around, go to impound and repeat it 
the next morning.  However, he didn't expect the chute to lift the 
ass end of the car off the ground.  When that happened, the front end 
dug in and it flipped end-over-end several times.  Bob, the owner, 
builder and driver of the car was hung upside-down in the harness cuz 
it landed on its lid.  When they got him out, all he had was a bloody 
nose...probably from hangin like that for a few minutes before the EV 
guys got there.  Tom Shannon (friend of mine from Miller's and USFRA 
for years) was the first one on the scene, but he didn't wanna let 
him out of the harnesses until he had some help.  But I was real 
happy to shake Bob's hand later that evening and see that he was up, 
walking around and bitching cuz he couldn't back up the 
record.  Oh...and that he had a wrecked race car.

There were a fair number of blown motors, some of which oiled things 
down a bit (most of it seeps into the salt, not like asphalt) and a 
few spins.  There were also some of the craziest vehicles (and I use 
the term loosely) running on the 130 mph Club course.  Karts, street 
luges (one ran on the long course at over 150 mph...with the driver 
lying on his back) and various and sundry other wheeled things.

I gotta get some sleep.

Ray

From mbp01 at sky.com  Sat Sep 19 03:38:53 2009
From: mbp01 at sky.com (Malcolm Pittwood)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 10:38:53 +0100
Subject: [Land-speed] GM Mesa AZ LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <c56.62fcf7e5.37e59331@aol.com>
References: <c56.62fcf7e5.37e59331@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4bc5a3b00909190238t305c04afm39585be35f5a29e9@mail.gmail.com>

Bob

Some have tried to get a single car on to this facility but it is strictly
for VW folk and their commercial partners, not open to speed record teams.
The area might enjoy tourists but the facility operates for the most part
for testing of 'secret' cars with no cameras allowed.  Probably higher
security than is applied to Edwards AFB!

Now people may understand why one european speed record team wanting to run
on tarmac, was content to use the Dolly Varden straight highjway in Nevada
in 2005.
Malcolm UK
On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 2:51 AM, <BWANA343 at aol.com> wrote:

> Just one more place I read about some time back, the VW test facility in
> Germany.
> It's got a straight-away over 4 miles long, looks to be only about 40 ft
> wide though.
> Just north of the town in this address.
>
> _
> http://maps.google.com/maps?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS257&q=Ehra-Less
>
> ien+germany&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Ehra-Lessien,+Germany&ei=gjW0SvD2MIeutgf
> C8NGiDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1_
> (
> http://maps.google.com/maps?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS257&q=Ehra-Lessien+germany&um=1&ie=UTF-8&
>
> hq=&hnear=Ehra-Lessien,+Germany&ei=gjW0SvD2MIeutgfC8NGiDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_re
> sult&ct=image&resnum=1)
>
> Something for the European LSR guys to check out. It's in the former East
> Germany, they'd love to have tourists, I'd think.
> Bob W
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as mbp01 at sky.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Sat Sep 19 06:47:58 2009
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:47:58 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] A "Rat's Pix" page from World of Speed
In-Reply-To: <E1MorvB-0007yi-Cx@in02.mta.xmission.com>
References: <E1MorvB-0007yi-Cx@in02.mta.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <7F0A7D83-EC86-4B61-B183-ECDD53DBD271@nancyandjon.org>

On Sep 19, 2009, at 12:53 AM, Ray Buck wrote:

> I'm back home for the moment.  I left the salt around 5 pm Friday.   
> It's 10:30 now.  I transferred the files from the laptop to the main  
> box and threw a quick web thingie together:
> http://www.chevyasylum.com/lsr/bsf2009/wos/pix/Welcome.html



>   I was pretty much on my own, since the owner of landracing (Seldom  
> Seen Slim, aka Jon Wennerberg, for whom I was working) was busy  
> getting his wife, Nancy into the 200 mph club on a Hayabusa.  She  
> ran 204 today (I missed the run cuz I took a potty break...dammit!)  
> and has to run 206 tomorrow to break the record over 200.  It's a  
> slightly strange deal, but that's the way they run it.

Thanks to Ray -- he did a wonderful job of keeping things online while  
Nancy and I were otherwise occupied.  Two quick comments from me and  
we're heading out to get the bike out of impound -- and then back, we  
hope, to impound.

First of all the record on which Nancy is running is hers from  
SpeedWeek a few weeks ago -- 198.909.  There's a 205 minimum in our  
class (P/P 1650), so the run she made yesterday, at 204.051 will have  
to be backed up with one that's at least 205.951.  We're hoping the  
cooler-still air (yesterday's DA during her run was 5271 ft.) and the  
we-hope even better track will give her the extra mph.

But most important (about the stuff Ray reported) is that we are one  
of the very few teams that do not run a Hayabusa.  They're admittedly  
the easier was to go fast on a bike -- but we long ago chose the  
Kawasaki route (all of our race bikes are Kawis).  This is a ZX14R --  
the latest of hhe firm's big "crotch rockets".

That's it for now.  I'll be posting some stuff on the website Forum  
later today, and I'll put information here, too.

Jon

PS  Once more -- thanks, Ray.  Check out his website for photos!

From rbuck at xmission.com  Sat Sep 19 22:08:47 2009
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 22:08:47 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] A "Rat's Pix" page from World of Speed
In-Reply-To: <7F0A7D83-EC86-4B61-B183-ECDD53DBD271@nancyandjon.org>
References: <E1MorvB-0007yi-Cx@in02.mta.xmission.com>
	<7F0A7D83-EC86-4B61-B183-ECDD53DBD271@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <E1MpDh3-0008LF-LD@in02.mta.xmission.com>

At 06:47 AM 9/19/2009, Jon Wennerberg wrote:
But most important (about the stuff Ray reported) is that we are one
>of the very few teams that do not run a Hayabusa.  They're admittedly
>the easier was to go fast on a bike -- but we long ago chose the
>Kawasaki route (all of our race bikes are Kawis).  This is a ZX14R --
>the latest of hhe firm's big "crotch rockets".
>
>That's it for now.  I'll be posting some stuff on the website Forum
>later today, and I'll put information here, too.
>
>Jon

Oops!  Sorry again about the Hayabusa thing.  I'll try to burn Kawis 
into my brain.


>PS  Once more -- thanks, Ray.  Check out his website for photos!

Yer welcome.  Here's the address again:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/lsr/bsf2009/wos/pix/Welcome.html

Some are pics that were posted on landracing, some are "new"...that 
is some that I edited and didn't get a chance to put on the forum.

And one more thing.  I shot the Grand-Am race today.  It was a long 
day (and still is) but I really enjoyed it.  Met some old friends, 
made some new ones.  I was gonna attach a photo, then I remembered 
this list doesn't allow it.  So, in a coupla hours, I should have a 
minimal series of pages here:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/racing/racing2009/Welcome.html

It'll be at the bottom, right after the NASA Championships.

After I pick up a replacement monopod (wore mine out) and pair of 
shoes (wore them out, too) I'll be heading back to the salt for the 
Shootout.  Photo coverage of that will most likely be on this thread:
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,6381.0.html

RtR

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sun Sep 20 15:31:26 2009
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Kirkwood)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:31:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Ray's Pics
Message-ID: <000001ca3a39$b5c9d250$215d76f0$@net>

Ray, many thanks for all the work you share with us. As always, the pictures
are great.  I noticed a picture of a camera that looks like Speed Graphic.
Can you comment about the pic? Yours? How was it used? Why on the salt? Etc.
Thanx again. 

From ed at vetteracing.com  Sun Sep 20 22:23:30 2009
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:23:30 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] A"Rat's Pix"page from  World  of Speed
Message-ID: <W695524445196951253507010@webmail3>

Great fotos Ray, and great seein' ya on the salt!
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Buck [mailto:rbuck at xmission.com]
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 09:53 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] A "Rat's Pix" page from World of Speed

I'm back home for the moment. I left the salt around 5 pm Friday. It's 10:30
now. I transferred the files from the laptop to the main box and threw a quick
web thingie together:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/lsr/bsf2009/wos/pix/Welcome.html It was a hard
workin 2.5 days. And it ain't gonna get a lot easier for about 10 days. Rolex
Grand-Am tomorrow, then back to the salt for the Shootout. I might get a
half-day off if they take extra time to set that up. There were several
records broken, but I really didn't have time to get into the speeds/records.
I was pretty much on my own, since the owner of landracing (Seldom Seen Slim,
aka Jon Wennerberg, for whom I was working) was busy getting his wife, Nancy
into the 200 mph club on a Hayabusa. She ran 204 today (I missed the run cuz I
took a potty break...dammit!) and has to run 206 tomorrow to break the record
over 200. It's a slightly strange deal, but that's the way they run it. There
were a few scares...the worst one was Bob Johnson in his Caddy XLR-S (I think)
who had broken the C/Gas Modified Sports record at Speed week and was trying
to get the Fuel record by adding a little nitro to the mix. He'd just run 257
to qualify for the record and all he had to do was stop, turn around, go to
impound and repeat it the next morning. However, he didn't expect the chute to
lift the ass end of the car off the ground. When that happened, the front end
dug in and it flipped end-over-end several times. Bob, the owner, builder and
driver of the car was hung upside-down in the harness cuz it landed on its
lid. When they got him out, all he had was a bloody nose...probably from
hangin like that for a few minutes before the EV guys got there. Tom Shannon
(friend of mine from Miller's and USFRA for years) was the first one on the
scene, but he didn't wanna let him out of the harnesses until he had some
help. But I was real happy to shake Bob's hand later that evening and see that
he was up, walking around and bitching cuz he couldn't back up the record.
Oh...and that he had a wrecked race car. There were a fair number of blown
motors, some of which oiled things down a bit (most of it seeps into the salt,
not like asphalt) and a few spins. There were also some of the craziest
vehicles (and I use the term loosely) running on the 130 mph Club course.
Karts, street luges (one ran on the long course at over 150 mph...with the
driver lying on his back) and various and sundry other wheeled things. I gotta
get some sleep. Ray

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Mon Sep 21 20:05:18 2009
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:05:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hilborn Injection and other parts
Message-ID: <20090922020406.21209187649@autox.team.net>

List,

A fellow salt racing friend needs a Hilborn Injector for a 572 Chevy 
crate engine. If there is one out there, please let me know off line 
and maybe I can get you together. Also, I need an new BBC block and 
I'm not sure what else after WOS decided to take my engine 
apart.....they always break when they are running well...........

Thanks in advance,
Skip

From adin at frontier.net  Tue Sep 22 08:47:17 2009
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:47:17 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] PistonHeads Headlines
Message-ID: <E21DB94E5AEE4998A7C023655122CD01@ZTxp>

Greenmonster . . .

http://www.pistonheads.com:80/news/default.asp?storyId=20694

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Sep 23 10:59:43 2009
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:59:43 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Great Loring Timing Association logo
Message-ID: <3E2E6E8C-F9F3-4BCC-B251-6C6C67730D90@comcast.net>

To avoid the kind of skin cancer problems that killed my uncle I wear  
a cap or hat when I'm outside,  When I saw the Loring logo moose I  
just had to have one of their caps.  I'm sending a link to their order  
form in case any of you may want to have one of their tees or caps for  
yourself or a family member.

Wes


http://www.lta-lsr.com/docs/LORING%20TIMING%20ASSOCIATION%20order.pdf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Sep 25 09:33:41 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:33:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines
Message-ID: <4ABCE2D5.2000202@mayfco.com>

I see that the rule book permits fuel lines to be run into the cockpit 
area (3.I) provided they are steel or steel braid covered. I guess Steel 
Braid covered means SS braided hose. Having fuel in the drivers 
compartment seems anathema to me, but for sure it can be an easier way 
to run fuel lines. I am curious as to how many teams out there run the 
fuel lines into the drivers compartment and what experiences they have 
had with that method (ie inspection and redesign suggestions from 
inspectors).  I am contemplating such a move. Why? Well, at WOS, I 
discovered a leaking fuel cell fitting up near the hot exhaust system 
feeding the turbo. I had put the fuel cell in front of the old radiator 
position to keep from having the fuel lines run into the drivers 
compartment or under the car when I had two old turbos in different  
locations that did not pose a heat threat to the fuel cell.  I am now 
fabricating a new fuel cell to fit in the cramped trunk area and running 
the fuel lines through the drivers compartment would be much easier to 
do.  

Comments? Thoughts?

mayf

From advo at comcast.net  Fri Sep 25 10:03:53 2009
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:03:53 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines
In-Reply-To: <4ABCE2D5.2000202@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <C6E25419.4817%advo@comcast.net>

We've been inspected six times now, and never had anyone comment on our fuel
line routing.  We used stainless braided fuel line inside a steel pipe which
ran along the floor of our 53' Stude inside, on the passenger side.  The
pipe was one solid piece, with open ends in the trunk and in front of the
firewall. My guess is that they  like to see extra metal covering fuel line
in the plane of the flywheel/clutch.
Greg
Salt2salt.com


On 9/25/09 10:33 AM, "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:

> I see that the rule book permits fuel lines to be run into the cockpit
> area (3.I) provided they are steel or steel braid covered. I guess Steel
> Braid covered means SS braided hose. Having fuel in the drivers
> compartment seems anathema to me, but for sure it can be an easier way
> to run fuel lines. I am curious as to how many teams out there run the
> fuel lines into the drivers compartment and what experiences they have
> had with that method (ie inspection and redesign suggestions from
> inspectors).  I am contemplating such a move. Why? Well, at WOS, I
> discovered a leaking fuel cell fitting up near the hot exhaust system
> feeding the turbo. I had put the fuel cell in front of the old radiator
> position to keep from having the fuel lines run into the drivers
> compartment or under the car when I had two old turbos in different
> locations that did not pose a heat threat to the fuel cell.  I am now
> fabricating a new fuel cell to fit in the cramped trunk area and running
> the fuel lines through the drivers compartment would be much easier to
> do.  
> 
> Comments? Thoughts?
> 
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as advo at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Turborick at Turborick.com  Fri Sep 25 11:15:13 2009
From: Turborick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:15:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines
In-Reply-To: <C6E25419.4817%advo@comcast.net>
References: <4ABCE2D5.2000202@mayfco.com>
  <C6E25419.4817%advo@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <05b301ca3e03$bf03c600$3d0b5200$@com>

About SS braided hose.... how often do you guys change it out? How do you
inspect it?
I have seen perfectly good looking SS hose leak.


Rick


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg Meyers
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:04 AM
To: drmayf at mayfco.com; 'land Speed List'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines

We've been inspected six times now, and never had anyone comment on our fuel
line routing.  We used stainless braided fuel line inside a steel pipe which
ran along the floor of our 53' Stude inside, on the passenger side.  The
pipe was one solid piece, with open ends in the trunk and in front of the
firewall. My guess is that they  like to see extra metal covering fuel line
in the plane of the flywheel/clutch.
Greg
Salt2salt.com


On 9/25/09 10:33 AM, "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:

> I see that the rule book permits fuel lines to be run into the cockpit
> area (3.I) provided they are steel or steel braid covered. I guess Steel
> Braid covered means SS braided hose. Having fuel in the drivers
> compartment seems anathema to me, but for sure it can be an easier way
> to run fuel lines. I am curious as to how many teams out there run the
> fuel lines into the drivers compartment and what experiences they have
> had with that method (ie inspection and redesign suggestions from
> inspectors).  I am contemplating such a move. Why? Well, at WOS, I
> discovered a leaking fuel cell fitting up near the hot exhaust system
> feeding the turbo. I had put the fuel cell in front of the old radiator
> position to keep from having the fuel lines run into the drivers
> compartment or under the car when I had two old turbos in different
> locations that did not pose a heat threat to the fuel cell.  I am now
> fabricating a new fuel cell to fit in the cramped trunk area and running
> the fuel lines through the drivers compartment would be much easier to
> do.  
> 
> Comments? Thoughts?
> 
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as advo at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as turborick at turborick.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From advo at comcast.net  Fri Sep 25 11:32:39 2009
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:32:39 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines
In-Reply-To: <05b301ca3e03$bf03c600$3d0b5200$@com>
Message-ID: <C6E268E7.481F%advo@comcast.net>

We put it under pressure and watch both ends of the steel pipe for fuel.
Probably time to change it anyhow.
This July we found an AN fitting at one of the fuel pumps had failed.  We
also determined that all fire extinguisher lines are suspect. They need to
be blown out to confirm patency. We found fractures and corrosion within
tie-down locations.  Beware of the aluminum line provided with some fire
systems.....
Greg

On 9/25/09 12:15 PM, "Rick Yacoucci" <Turborick at Turborick.com> wrote:

> About SS braided hose.... how often do you guys change it out? How do you
> inspect it?
> I have seen perfectly good looking SS hose leak.
> 
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg Meyers
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:04 AM
> To: drmayf at mayfco.com; 'land Speed List'
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines
> 
> We've been inspected six times now, and never had anyone comment on our fuel
> line routing.  We used stainless braided fuel line inside a steel pipe which
> ran along the floor of our 53' Stude inside, on the passenger side.  The
> pipe was one solid piece, with open ends in the trunk and in front of the
> firewall. My guess is that they  like to see extra metal covering fuel line
> in the plane of the flywheel/clutch.
> Greg
> Salt2salt.com
> 
> 
> On 9/25/09 10:33 AM, "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
> 
>> I see that the rule book permits fuel lines to be run into the cockpit
>> area (3.I) provided they are steel or steel braid covered. I guess Steel
>> Braid covered means SS braided hose. Having fuel in the drivers
>> compartment seems anathema to me, but for sure it can be an easier way
>> to run fuel lines. I am curious as to how many teams out there run the
>> fuel lines into the drivers compartment and what experiences they have
>> had with that method (ie inspection and redesign suggestions from
>> inspectors).  I am contemplating such a move. Why? Well, at WOS, I
>> discovered a leaking fuel cell fitting up near the hot exhaust system
>> feeding the turbo. I had put the fuel cell in front of the old radiator
>> position to keep from having the fuel lines run into the drivers
>> compartment or under the car when I had two old turbos in different
>> locations that did not pose a heat threat to the fuel cell.  I am now
>> fabricating a new fuel cell to fit in the cramped trunk area and running
>> the fuel lines through the drivers compartment would be much easier to
>> do.  
>> 
>> Comments? Thoughts?
>> 
>> mayf
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> 
>> Land-speed mailing list
>> 
>> You are subscribed as advo at comcast.net
>> 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as turborick at turborick.com
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Sep 25 11:42:45 2009
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:42:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines
In-Reply-To: <05b301ca3e03$bf03c600$3d0b5200$@com>
References: <4ABCE2D5.2000202@mayfco.com> 
	<C6E25419.4817%advo@comcast.net> <05b301ca3e03$bf03c600$3d0b5200$@com>
Message-ID: <C88C968E8D254C209A9A56EE34085832@DBTech>

Rick; 

SS braided hose comes in two types-- a neoprene runner lined hose, generally
used for fuel hoses, etc and Teflon lined hose, generally used for high
pressure applications like brake lines.

The lifetime of each one depends on the temperature it is exposed to and for
how long. I have also experienced leaks from perfectly good looking SS
braided hose; it was because the neoprene liner had deteriorated and cracked
under the SS braid because the line had been routed too close to the
headers.

Teflon hose lasts for a long time unless it is exposed to very high
temperatures, then it too can become stiff and subject to cracking.

Keeping the hose away from heat sources can make a huge difference in hose
lifetime.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Yacoucci
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:15 AM
To: 'Greg Meyers'; drmayf at mayfco.com; 'landSpeed List'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines

About SS braided hose.... how often do you guys change it out? How do you
inspect it?
I have seen perfectly good looking SS hose leak.


Rick


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg Meyers
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:04 AM
To: drmayf at mayfco.com; 'land Speed List'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines

We've been inspected six times now, and never had anyone comment on our fuel
line routing.  We used stainless braided fuel line inside a steel pipe which
ran along the floor of our 53' Stude inside, on the passenger side.  The
pipe was one solid piece, with open ends in the trunk and in front of the
firewall. My guess is that they  like to see extra metal covering fuel line
in the plane of the flywheel/clutch.
Greg
Salt2salt.com


On 9/25/09 10:33 AM, "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:

> I see that the rule book permits fuel lines to be run into the cockpit
> area (3.I) provided they are steel or steel braid covered. I guess Steel
> Braid covered means SS braided hose. Having fuel in the drivers
> compartment seems anathema to me, but for sure it can be an easier way
> to run fuel lines. I am curious as to how many teams out there run the
> fuel lines into the drivers compartment and what experiences they have
> had with that method (ie inspection and redesign suggestions from
> inspectors).  I am contemplating such a move. Why? Well, at WOS, I
> discovered a leaking fuel cell fitting up near the hot exhaust system
> feeding the turbo. I had put the fuel cell in front of the old radiator
> position to keep from having the fuel lines run into the drivers
> compartment or under the car when I had two old turbos in different
> locations that did not pose a heat threat to the fuel cell.  I am now
> fabricating a new fuel cell to fit in the cramped trunk area and running
> the fuel lines through the drivers compartment would be much easier to
> do.  
> 
> Comments? Thoughts?
> 
> mayf

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Sep 25 11:57:30 2009
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (23weldon)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:57:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines
References: <4ABCE2D5.2000202@mayfco.com> 
	<C6E25419.4817%advo@comcast.net> <05b301ca3e03$bf03c600$3d0b5200$@com>
Message-ID: <2AF30B7FF6704947BAB07C31665B84D4@edc2750afa5a84>

There is a phenomena most technical folks are not familiar with.  It is 
electrostatic charge build-up in nonmetallic piping carrying hydrocarbon 
fuels and similar insulating liquids.  We had to address this issue in some 
of our semiconductor fabrication equipment at Applied Materials.  Some of 
our tests showed the ability of high flow rates through relatively small 
teflon lined piping runs of a few feet length to create discharges that 
would blow tiny pin holes in the pipe.
My recollection of the actual details of what I read on the subject is 
fuzzy; so I'm not going to recommend anything here.  A bit of Google 
searching using keywords like the phrase "electrostatic sparks non metallic 
fuel piping" would be informative for anyone interested in pursuing the 
subject.
IIRC the first observations of this problem came sometime in the last years 
of WWII, I think in England, where someone decided there were some good 
reasons to layout the refueling pipelines at a military airfield with 
newfangled plastic pipes for carrying avgas.  I think the results were a bit 
more spectacular than the builders expected.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick Yacoucci" <Turborick at Turborick.com>
To: "'Greg Meyers'" <advo at comcast.net>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "'landSpeed 
List'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines


> About SS braided hose.... how often do you guys change it out? How do you
> inspect it?
> I have seen perfectly good looking SS hose leak.
> Rick

From ed at vetteracing.com  Fri Sep 25 13:41:11 2009
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:41:11 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines
Message-ID: <W71905867178921253907671@webmail41>

A very true observation Rick. It's been my experience that steel braided hose
will eventually start "weeping" even though it looks fine on the outside. I
have a feed and a return line running through the interior of my car..... It
is too low to trust it from the elements and scraping under the car. I replace
the lines with a single piece about every 5 years, even if they look fine, and
when the car is stored, I never store it with fuel in it. I prefer the
Twist-Tite hose and fittings..... NEVER had a hose leak yet. Unfortunately,
you can't use them in the interior of your car. Just my personal
experience.......

Ed


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Yacoucci [mailto:Turborick at Turborick.com]
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:15 AM
To: ''Greg Meyers'', drmayf at mayfco.com, ''land Speed List''
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines

About SS braided hose.... how often do you guys change it out? How do you
inspect it? I have seen perfectly good looking SS hose leak. Rick
-----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg Meyers Sent:
Friday, September 25, 2009 9:04 AM To: drmayf at mayfco.com; 'land Speed List'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fuel Lines We've been inspected six times now, and
never had anyone comment on our fuel line routing. We used stainless braided
fuel line inside a steel pipe which ran along the floor of our 53' Stude
inside, on the passenger side. The pipe was one solid piece, with open ends in
the trunk and in front of the firewall. My guess is that they like to see
extra metal covering fuel line in the plane of the flywheel/clutch. Greg
Salt2salt.com On 9/25/09 10:33 AM, "drmayf" wrote: > I see that the rule book
permits fuel lines to be run into the cockpit > area (3.I) provided they are
steel or steel braid covered. I guess Steel > Braid covered means SS braided
hose. Having fuel in the drivers > compartment seems anathema to me, but for
sure it can be an easier way > to run fuel lines. I am curious as to how many
teams out there run the > fuel lines into the drivers compartment and what
experiences they have > had with that method (ie inspection and redesign
suggestions from > inspectors). I am contemplating such a move. Why? Well, at
WOS, I > discovered a leaking fuel cell fitting up near the hot exhaust system
> feeding the turbo. I had put the fuel cell in front of the old radiator >
position to keep from having the fuel lines run into the drivers > compartment
or under the car when I had two old turbos in different > locations that did
not pose a heat threat to the fuel cell. I am now > fabricating a new fuel
cell to fit in the cramped trunk area and running > the fuel lines through the
drivers compartment would be much easier to > do. > > Comments? Thoughts? > >
mayf >

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 25 23:27:45 2009
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:27:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
Message-ID: <232079F002CB477CA37AF4900ECB341E@mydf7618c59bbf>

Subject: RM Auction


Saturday is the Auction at the Perterson Museum with a few of the hiustoric
LSR cars.................Will you be watching?

From jdincau at qnet.com  Sat Sep 26 06:01:54 2009
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:01:54 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
In-Reply-To: <232079F002CB477CA37AF4900ECB341E@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <232079F002CB477CA37AF4900ECB341E@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <339C138FF81141F09CC820E07487B132@denpc>

is it going to be on TV?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:27 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction


> Subject: RM Auction
>
>
> Saturday is the Auction at the Perterson Museum with a few of the 
> hiustoric
> LSR cars.................Will you be watching?
> _______________________________________________

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sat Sep 26 08:07:54 2009
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:07:54 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
Message-ID: <d61.58226bb7.37ef7a3a@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/26/2009 8:15:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
jdincau at qnet.com writes:

Subject:  RM Auction


You got about 45 minutes to get there....
 
_http://www.petersen.org/default.cfm?DocID=902&CalendarID=764_ 
(http://www.petersen.org/default.cfm?DocID=902&CalendarID=764) 
 
Bob W

From adin at frontier.net  Sat Sep 26 08:12:52 2009
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:12:52 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
References: <232079F002CB477CA37AF4900ECB341E@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<339C138FF81141F09CC820E07487B132@denpc>
Message-ID: <FE93FB6486764467AECC9975EFF13857@ZTxp>

Found this . . .

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401972


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "Landspeed" 
<Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction


> is it going to be on TV?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
> To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:27 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
>
>
>> Subject: RM Auction
>>
>>
>> Saturday is the Auction at the Perterson Museum with a few of the 
>> hiustoric
>> LSR cars.................Will you be watching?
>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfevr at q.com  Sat Sep 26 21:02:24 2009
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:02:24 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
In-Reply-To: <FE93FB6486764467AECC9975EFF13857@ZTxp>
References: <232079F002CB477CA37AF4900ECB341E@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<339C138FF81141F09CC820E07487B132@denpc> 
Message-ID: <SNT126-W641ABD85D124EDD85B6594C9D70@phx.gbl>

Looks Like Auction ended at 6P Cali Time:

Teague Liner 250K

Sadd,Teague Bentley Roadster 110K

Tom Grady Belly Tank 190K

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> From: adin at frontier.net
> To: jdincau at qnet.com; gmc6power at earthlink.net; Land-speed at Autox.team.net
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:12:52 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
>
> Found this . . .
>
> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401972
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
> To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "Landspeed"
> <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 6:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
>
>
> > is it going to be on TV?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
> > To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:27 PM
> > Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
> >
> >
> >> Subject: RM Auction
> >>
> >>
> >> Saturday is the Auction at the Perterson Museum with a few of the
> >> hiustoric
> >> LSR cars.................Will you be watching?
> >> _______________________________________________
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfevr at q.com  Sat Sep 26 21:24:06 2009
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:24:06 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NHRA / RM Auction results
In-Reply-To: <SNT108-W182A287B5994BA924F81A1D9D70@phx.gbl>
References: <232079F002CB477CA37AF4900ECB341E@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<339C138FF81141F09CC820E07487B132@denpc>   
Message-ID: <SNT126-W39934567682938F4E1718CC9D70@phx.gbl>

Doug a Louie:



Correct. I meant the #100B Tom Beatty Belly Tank Lakester.

How 'bout 550K for Little Red Wagon??

Good to hear from 'uh brothu!

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah






From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com
To: saltfevr at q.com
CC: speedtimer at beyondbb.com; slobitz at ptd.net; ppanos at rochester.rr.com;
mseiver at stny.rr.com; neatoldstuff at webtv.net; ynst at verizon.net;
joetimney at dol.net; gda726 at yahoo.com; blackradon at hotmail.com;
boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com; brianjdolin at yahoo.com; want1937hd at aol.com;
bobbyhotrods at comcast.net; boogiespeed at yahoo.com; adin at frontier.net;
jdincau at qnet.com; gmc6power at earthlink.net
Subject: RE: NHRA / RM Auction results
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:16:29 +0000





     Tommy! how'ya been ?  ;-)


   isn't that the TOM BEATTY belly tanker that sold  @ $190 K?


whoa, -can you imagine the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and the $$$$ people with it,
that are willing to spend that much to buy a famous car,..  -just to "be
somebody" ?


  whoa...  I can't  hardly  imagine....




         c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug '   da' school bus drivin' foo'







???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? huh
????




> From: saltfevr at q.com
> To: adin at frontier.net; jdincau at qnet.com; gmc6power at earthlink.net;
land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:02:24 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
>
> Looks Like Auction ended at 6P Cali Time:
>
> Teague Liner @ 250K
>
> Sadd, Teague, & Bentley Roadster @ 110K
>
> Tom Grady Belly Tank @ 190K
>
>               - Tom Shannon    Magna, Utah
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
> > From: adin at frontier.net

> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction

    Found this ;   http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401972



================================================================



> > From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
> > To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "Landspeed"
> > <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 6:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction

                is it going to be on TV?



        ---------------------------------------------------------------------


        From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
         Subject: RM Auction

    Saturday is the Auction at the Peterson Museum
                               with a few of the historic LSR
cars.................


            Will you be watching?









Hotmail. has ever-growing storage! Dont worry about storage limits. Check it
out.

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 17:29:44 2009
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
In-Reply-To: <SNT126-W641ABD85D124EDD85B6594C9D70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <328033.56134.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Who is/was Tom Grady?

DW

XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!A natural anti-inflammatory Immune
system booster &
antioxidant.http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/1-818-998-4435  Dan and
Joanie use XanGo, won't you?www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com  

--- On Sat, 9/26/09, Tom Shannon <saltfevr at q.com> wrote:

From: Tom Shannon <saltfevr at q.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
To: adin at frontier.net, jdincau at qnet.com, gmc6power at earthlink.net,
land-speed at autox.team.net
Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 8:02 PM

Looks Like Auction ended at 6P Cali Time:

Teague Liner 250K

Sadd,Teague Bentley Roadster 110K

Tom Grady Belly Tank 190K

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> From: adin at frontier.net
> To: jdincau at qnet.com; gmc6power at earthlink.net; Land-speed at Autox.team.net
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:12:52 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
>
> Found this . . .
>
> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401972
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
> To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "Landspeed"
> <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 6:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
>
>
> > is it going to be on TV?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
> > To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:27 PM
> > Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
> >
> >
> >> Subject: RM Auction
> >>
> >>
> >> Saturday is the Auction at the Perterson Museum with a few of the
> >> hiustoric
> >> LSR cars.................Will you be watching?
> >> _______________________________________________
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Mon Sep 28 09:23:46 2009
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:23:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Question re: Glaspar At Bonneville 1954
In-Reply-To: <1359001802.6703851254151148552.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <915043164.6706071254151426725.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Hello All,



I received this question from a friend who is trying to trace the history of a
Glaspar automobile that B he owns.B  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The car ran at the 1954 Bonneville event.B  There is a name printed on the
cowl that says "---- ---- Special" but I can't make it out.B B  The car
appears in the pictures to be a light color....possibly white or yellow.

Thanks.

JG





"Any idea where I could get a Bonneville entry list for 1954.B  Like to figure
out who had this Glasspar
there.B  Was there a sports car class then?"

The pictures that he included clearly shows the Glaspar numbered #218

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Glasspar 1954 bonneville.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Glaspar Nutting1.jpg]

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Sep 28 09:59:06 2009
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:59:06 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Question re: Glaspar At Bonneville 1954
In-Reply-To: <915043164.6706071254151426725.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <915043164.6706071254151426725.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <D1410CF82CF943A488DD56653165F292@GlenPC>

JM
E-mail me the pictures as you can't add attachments to this site.
I should have something on it or know someone that does

Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:23 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Question re: Glaspar At Bonneville 1954


> Hello All,
>
>
>
> I received this question from a friend who is trying to trace the history 
> of a
> Glaspar automobile that B he owns.B  Any help would be greatly 
> appreciated.
> The car ran at the 1954 Bonneville event.B  There is a name printed on the
> cowl that says "---- ---- Special" but I can't make it out.B B  The car
> appears in the pictures to be a light color....possibly white or yellow.
>
> Thanks.
>
> JG
>
>
>
>
>
> "Any idea where I could get a Bonneville entry list for 1954.B  Like to 
> figure
> out who had this Glasspar
> there.B  Was there a sports car class then?"
>
> The pictures that he included clearly shows the Glaspar numbered #218
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> Glasspar 1954 bonneville.jpg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> Glaspar Nutting1.jpg]
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Sep 28 14:18:01 2009
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:18:01 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Question re: Glaspar At Bonneville 1954
References: <915043164.6706071254151426725.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4AC119F7.000025.02872@D3DP98F1>

JG

You can see the results for 1954 on my web site, www.bryantauto - Bryant
Racing, scroll down to Early years at Bonneville. I don't have a picture of
this car, but the car ran in Sports Car - Open - over 1500cc.  Entry was
Warner-Wright of Chula Vista CA. It ran 137.61 MPH.

Tom



I received this question from a friend who is trying to trace the history of
a
Glaspar automobile that B he owns.B  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The car ran at the 1954 Bonneville event.B  There is a name printed on the
Cowl that says "---- ---- Special" but I can't make it out.B B  The car
Appears in the pictures to be a light color....possibly white or yellow.

Thanks.

JG

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of stampa_hand_draw_en.gif]

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Sep 28 19:08:15 2009
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:08:15 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
In-Reply-To: <SNT126-W641ABD85D124EDD85B6594C9D70@phx.gbl>
References: <232079F002CB477CA37AF4900ECB341E@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<339C138FF81141F09CC820E07487B132@denpc>  
Message-ID: <SNT126-W481C2A4B2F664129F81429C9D50@phx.gbl>

Final Auction results are finally posted at:

http://www.rmsuctions.com

click on Icons of Speed & Style,

 I apologize for some of my early on bid prices were incorrect.

Sure hope the rumors of 'Sprit of 76' liner  coming to a yet to be built Salt
Lake Museum comes true!

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> From: saltfevr at q.com
> To: adin at frontier.net; jdincau at qnet.com; gmc6power at earthlink.net;
land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:02:24 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
>
> Looks Like Auction ended at 6P Cali Time:
>
> Teague Liner 250K
>
> Sadd,Teague Bentley Roadster 110K
>
> Tom Grady Belly Tank 190K
>
> Tom Shannon
> Magna, Utah
>
>
>
>
> > From: adin at frontier.net
> > To: jdincau at qnet.com; gmc6power at earthlink.net; Land-speed at Autox.team.net
> > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:12:52 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
> >
> > Found this . . .
> >
> > http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401972
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
> > To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "Landspeed"
> > <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 6:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
> >
> >
> > > is it going to be on TV?
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
> > > To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:27 PM
> > > Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
> > >
> > >
> > >> Subject: RM Auction
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Saturday is the Auction at the Perterson Museum with a few of the
> > >> hiustoric
> > >> LSR cars.................Will you be watching?
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > >
> > > Land-speed mailing list
> > >
> > > You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
> > >
> > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Sep 28 19:10:46 2009
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:10:46 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] FW:  Fw: RM Auction
In-Reply-To: <SNT126-W641ABD85D124EDD85B6594C9D70@phx.gbl>
References: <232079F002CB477CA37AF4900ECB341E@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<339C138FF81141F09CC820E07487B132@denpc>   
Message-ID: <SNT126-W515092F16F43C8B211DA54C9D50@phx.gbl>

Sorry guys, try ths corrected link:

http://www.rmauctions.com

click on Icons of Speed & Style

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah






From: saltfevr at q.com
To: adin at frontier.net; jdincau at qnet.com; gmc6power at earthlink.net;
land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:08:15 -0600



Final Auction results are finally posted at:
http://www.rmsuctions.com
click on Icons of Speed & Style,
 I apologize for some of my early on bid prices were incorrect.
Sure hope the rumors of 'Sprit of 76' liner  coming to a yet to be built Salt
Lake Museum comes true!

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




> From: saltfevr at q.com
> To: adin at frontier.net; jdincau at qnet.com; gmc6power at earthlink.net;
land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:02:24 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
>
> Looks Like Auction ended at 6P Cali Time:
>
> Teague Liner 250K
>
> Sadd,Teague Bentley Roadster 110K
>
> Tom Grady Belly Tank 190K
>
> Tom Shannon
> Magna, Utah
>
>
>
>
> > From: adin at frontier.net
> > To: jdincau at qnet.com; gmc6power at earthlink.net; Land-speed at Autox.team.net
> > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:12:52 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
> >
> > Found this . . .
> >
> > http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401972
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
> > To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "Landspeed"
> > <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 6:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
> >
> >
> > > is it going to be on TV?
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
> > > To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:27 PM
> > > Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: RM Auction
> > >
> > >
> > >> Subject: RM Auction
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Saturday is the Auction at the Perterson Museum with a few of the
> > >> hiustoric
> > >> LSR cars.................Will you be watching?
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > >
> > > Land-speed mailing list
> > >
> > > You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
> > >
> > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Mon Sep 28 20:26:15 2009
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:26:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] #218 Glaspar @ Bonneville 1954
Message-ID: <1969644548.7054671254191175002.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

All, 



Thanks for your many responses to the question about the Glaspar at the 1954 Bonneville event. 



My friend was very pleased...and quite impressed with your quick and helpful responses. 



You guys.....and this site.....are great! 



Thanks again 



JG 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Sep 29 09:29:42 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:29:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
Message-ID: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com>

Dale Pulju sent me a note about the Buckeye Bullet setting a record of 
300 + mph with Hydrogen.  Now this brings an interesting question or 
two. But first, I say well done to that effort!  Now the questions: 
they  had previously set a record using batteries. Batteries are 
electric storage devices. So the record was listed as an electrical 
record. Good enough I say. But now another record is claimed as a 
hydrogen record. Yet the car's drive system was electrical.  Hydrogen 
(actually hydrogen and oxygen mix)  was used to produce electricity 
which powered the car.  So was the original record using batteries 
really a gasoline record because the batteries that supplied the power 
were charged via some generator? Or Nuke because the electrons came from 
that?  With the H2O2 and the fuel cells generating electrons I believe 
that the record is really an electrical one.  Think hard about this. Do 
the rule making authorities need new definitions of what actually powers 
a vehicle?  Take  a hybrid vehicle. Doesn't the gasoline motor provide 
most of the power? If so, why is it called a hybrid?  If I could put a 
gasoline powered generator in a car and use the gen power to run the 
electric motor that drives the wheels, would that be electrical or 
fossil fuel powered?  It cannot run without gasoline so is it defined as 
a petroleum powered car or electrical. Isn't that what a hybrid is?  Me, 
I think that the drive mechanism has to be primarily fueled by something 
directly and that should be the definition. for instance the car that 
Jesse James used had a true hydrogen motor. The fuel was directly 
powering the vehicle.  The Ford Fusion and the Buckeye Bullet used 
electric drive to move the vehicle and I think that is electrical. Not 
hydrogen.


Any thoughtful comments out there? I am sitting here waiting for parts....


mayf

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 09:36:52 2009
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:36:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <45261.28177.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Why not ask the FIA who classified the vehicle?
 
DW




XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!
A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435  Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
  

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:


From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 8:29 AM


Dale Pulju sent me a note about the Buckeye Bullet setting a record of 300 +
mph with Hydrogen.  Now this brings an interesting question or two. But first,
I say well done to that effort!  Now the questions: they  had previously set a
record using batteries. Batteries are electric storage devices. So the record
was listed as an electrical record. Good enough I say. But now another record
is claimed as a hydrogen record. Yet the car's drive system was electrical. 
Hydrogen (actually hydrogen and oxygen mix)  was used to produce electricity
which powered the car.  So was the original record using batteries really a
gasoline record because the batteries that supplied the power were charged via
some generator? Or Nuke because the electrons came from that?  With the H2O2
and the fuel cells generating electrons I believe that the record is really an
electrical one.  Think hard about this. Do the rule making authorities need
new definitions of what
 actually powers a vehicle?  Take  a hybrid vehicle. Doesn't the gasoline
motor provide most of the power? If so, why is it called a hybrid?  If I could
put a gasoline powered generator in a car and use the gen power to run the
electric motor that drives the wheels, would that be electrical or fossil fuel
powered?  It cannot run without gasoline so is it defined as a petroleum
powered car or electrical. Isn't that what a hybrid is?  Me, I think that the
drive mechanism has to be primarily fueled by something directly and that
should be the definition. for instance the car that Jesse James used had a
true hydrogen motor. The fuel was directly powering the vehicle.  The Ford
Fusion and the Buckeye Bullet used electric drive to move the vehicle and I
think that is electrical. Not hydrogen.


Any thoughtful comments out there? I am sitting here waiting for parts....


mayf
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Tue Sep 29 10:28:08 2009
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:28:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com>
References: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <9E88BFB3CEF34918AF82F5E47D81D4B8@DBTech>

Good point, Mayf. Does the charging system determine the classification? If
so, a diesel record could be claimed if the hybrid had a diesel engine
charging the batteries. Next could be a fuel class, blown, etc. ad nauseum.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:30 AM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet

Dale Pulju sent me a note about the Buckeye Bullet setting a record of 
300 + mph with Hydrogen.  Now this brings an interesting question or 
two. But first, I say well done to that effort!  Now the questions: 
they  had previously set a record using batteries. Batteries are 
electric storage devices. So the record was listed as an electrical 
record. Good enough I say. But now another record is claimed as a 
hydrogen record. Yet the car's drive system was electrical.  Hydrogen 
(actually hydrogen and oxygen mix)  was used to produce electricity 
which powered the car.  So was the original record using batteries 
really a gasoline record because the batteries that supplied the power 
were charged via some generator? Or Nuke because the electrons came from 
that?  With the H2O2 and the fuel cells generating electrons I believe 
that the record is really an electrical one.  Think hard about this. Do 
the rule making authorities need new definitions of what actually powers 
a vehicle?  Take  a hybrid vehicle. Doesn't the gasoline motor provide 
most of the power? If so, why is it called a hybrid?  If I could put a 
gasoline powered generator in a car and use the gen power to run the 
electric motor that drives the wheels, would that be electrical or 
fossil fuel powered?  It cannot run without gasoline so is it defined as 
a petroleum powered car or electrical. Isn't that what a hybrid is?  Me, 
I think that the drive mechanism has to be primarily fueled by something 
directly and that should be the definition. for instance the car that 
Jesse James used had a true hydrogen motor. The fuel was directly 
powering the vehicle.  The Ford Fusion and the Buckeye Bullet used 
electric drive to move the vehicle and I think that is electrical. Not 
hydrogen.


Any thoughtful comments out there? I am sitting here waiting for parts....


mayf

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Sep 29 10:48:55 2009
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:48:55 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com>
References: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <94CBE2799B1C4CA2A71C43C17A66EA92@GlenPC>

Didn't you guys forget Rick Byrnes and the Ford. He went 200 with a hydrogen 
power vehicle.
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:29 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet


> Dale Pulju sent me a note about the Buckeye Bullet setting a record of 300 
> + mph with Hydrogen.  Now this brings an interesting question or two. But 
> first, I say well done to that effort!  Now the questions: they  had 
> previously set a record using batteries. Batteries are electric storage 
> devices. So the record was listed as an electrical record. Good enough I 
> say. But now another record is claimed as a hydrogen record. Yet the car's 
> drive system was electrical.  Hydrogen (actually hydrogen and oxygen mix) 
> was used to produce electricity which powered the car.  So was the 
> original record using batteries really a gasoline record because the 
> batteries that supplied the power were charged via some generator? Or Nuke 
> because the electrons came from that?  With the H2O2 and the fuel cells 
> generating electrons I believe that the record is really an electrical 
> one.  Think hard about this. Do the rule making authorities need new 
> definitions of what actually powers a vehicle?  Take  a hybrid vehicle. 
> Doesn't the gasoline motor provide most of the power? If so, why is it 
> called a hybrid?  If I could put a gasoline powered generator in a car and 
> use the gen power to run the electric motor that drives the wheels, would 
> that be electrical or fossil fuel powered?  It cannot run without gasoline 
> so is it defined as a petroleum powered car or electrical. Isn't that what 
> a hybrid is?  Me, I think that the drive mechanism has to be primarily 
> fueled by something directly and that should be the definition. for 
> instance the car that Jesse James used had a true hydrogen motor. The fuel 
> was directly powering the vehicle.  The Ford Fusion and the Buckeye Bullet 
> used electric drive to move the vehicle and I think that is electrical. 
> Not hydrogen.
>
>
> Any thoughtful comments out there? I am sitting here waiting for parts....
>
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From david_dymaxion at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 11:13:51 2009
From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com (David Dymaxion)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:13:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10984.1254242960.3240.land-speed@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.10984.1254242960.3240.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <958178.60152.qm@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

This is a good question. A good standard might be what is the ultimate energy source carried on board the vehicle? This eliminates the nuke/coal/diesel generator part of the equation. If you pump hydrogen into the vehicle, who cares if it is burned, fuel celled, or fused? May the best hydrogen system win. This would also make a hybrid vehicle a gasoline vehicle.

It is because of debates like this that the electric car crowd clarifies by saying "Battery Electric Vehicle."

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:29 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet

> Dale Pulju sent me a note about the Buckeye Bullet setting a record of 300 
> + mph with Hydrogen.  Now this brings an interesting question or two. But 
> first, I say well done to that effort!  Now the questions: they  had 
> previously set a record using batteries. Batteries are electric storage 
> devices. So the record was listed as an electrical record. Good enough I 
> say. But now another record is claimed as a hydrogen record. Yet the car's 
> drive system was electrical.  Hydrogen (actually hydrogen and oxygen mix) 
> was used to produce electricity which powered the car.  So was the 
> original record using batteries really a gasoline record because the 
> batteries that supplied the power were charged via some generator? Or Nuke 
> because the electrons came from that?  With the H2O2 and the fuel cells 
> generating electrons I believe that the record is really an electrical 
> one.  Think hard about this. Do the rule making authorities need new 
> definitions of what actually powers a vehicle?  Take  a hybrid vehicle. 
> Doesn't the gasoline motor provide most of the power? If so, why is it 
> called a hybrid?  If I could put a gasoline powered generator in a car and 
> use the gen power to run the electric motor that drives the wheels, would 
> that be electrical or fossil fuel powered?  It cannot run without gasoline 
> so is it defined as a petroleum powered car or electrical. Isn't that what 
> a hybrid is?  Me, I think that the drive mechanism has to be primarily 
> fueled by something directly and that should be the definition. for 
> instance the car that Jesse James used had a true hydrogen motor. The fuel 
> was directly powering the vehicle.  The Ford Fusion and the Buckeye Bullet 
> used electric drive to move the vehicle and I think that is electrical. 
> Not hydrogen.
>
>
> Any thoughtful comments out there? I am sitting here waiting for parts....

From jdincau at qnet.com  Tue Sep 29 11:35:49 2009
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:35:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] FIA groups under catagory A
Message-ID: <F14FB47FD845455A8561DC260DC720EE@denpc>

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/records/appendixb/Pages/CategoryA.aspx 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Sep 29 11:52:00 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:52:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <94CBE2799B1C4CA2A71C43C17A66EA92@GlenPC>
References: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com>
	<94CBE2799B1C4CA2A71C43C17A66EA92@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <4AC24940.2020404@mayfco.com>

Not forgotten as that is the Ford Fusion I mention in the question. And 
it was not hydrogen powered. It used electric motors to drive the car.  
That is part and parcel of the question being discussed...

mayf
speedtimer at beyondbb.com wrote:

> Didn't you guys forget Rick Byrnes and the Ford. He went 200 with a 
> hydrogen power vehicle.
> GB
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:29 AM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
>
>
>> Dale Pulju sent me a note about the Buckeye Bullet setting a record 
>> of 300 + mph with Hydrogen.  Now this brings an interesting question 
>> or two. But first, I say well done to that effort!  Now the 
>> questions: they  had previously set a record using batteries. 
>> Batteries are electric storage devices. So the record was listed as 
>> an electrical record. Good enough I say. But now another record is 
>> claimed as a hydrogen record. Yet the car's drive system was 
>> electrical.  Hydrogen (actually hydrogen and oxygen mix) was used to 
>> produce electricity which powered the car.  So was the original 
>> record using batteries really a gasoline record because the batteries 
>> that supplied the power were charged via some generator? Or Nuke 
>> because the electrons came from that?  With the H2O2 and the fuel 
>> cells generating electrons I believe that the record is really an 
>> electrical one.  Think hard about this. Do the rule making 
>> authorities need new definitions of what actually powers a vehicle?  
>> Take  a hybrid vehicle. Doesn't the gasoline motor provide most of 
>> the power? If so, why is it called a hybrid?  If I could put a 
>> gasoline powered generator in a car and use the gen power to run the 
>> electric motor that drives the wheels, would that be electrical or 
>> fossil fuel powered?  It cannot run without gasoline so is it defined 
>> as a petroleum powered car or electrical. Isn't that what a hybrid 
>> is?  Me, I think that the drive mechanism has to be primarily fueled 
>> by something directly and that should be the definition. for instance 
>> the car that Jesse James used had a true hydrogen motor. The fuel was 
>> directly powering the vehicle.  The Ford Fusion and the Buckeye 
>> Bullet used electric drive to move the vehicle and I think that is 
>> electrical. Not hydrogen.
>>
>>
>> Any thoughtful comments out there? I am sitting here waiting for 
>> parts....
>>
>>
>> mayf
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Sep 29 12:04:36 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:04:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com>
References: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4AC24C34.6030004@mayfco.com>

Let me add some more fuel to the discussion. Let's consider steam.  If 
the analogy between steam and electric or hydrogen is permitted then a 
steam powered vehicle should be listed as what ever was used to generate 
the steam, steam being the equivalent of electrons.  Then the record for 
the steam car would be listed as a fuel car and classified somehow in 
that classification.  Steam, as are electrons, the media which powers 
the final drive. So if a steam car is a "steam car" then both the 
buckeye bullet and the Ford Fusion should be reclassified as electric 
cars since final drive power was electricity.   What if the steam car 
had used hydrogen to fuel th eburnes that made the steam? Would i thave 
been classified as a hydrogen fuel car? Can't have it both ways, I am 
thinking..

mayf
drmayf wrote:

> Dale Pulju sent me a note about the Buckeye Bullet setting a record of 
> 300 + mph with Hydrogen.  Now this brings an interesting question or 
> two. But first, I say well done to that effort!  Now the questions: 
> they  had previously set a record using batteries. Batteries are 
> electric storage devices. So the record was listed as an electrical 
> record. Good enough I say. But now another record is claimed as a 
> hydrogen record. Yet the car's drive system was electrical.  Hydrogen 
> (actually hydrogen and oxygen mix)  was used to produce electricity 
> which powered the car.  So was the original record using batteries 
> really a gasoline record because the batteries that supplied the power 
> were charged via some generator? Or Nuke because the electrons came 
> from that?  With the H2O2 and the fuel cells generating electrons I 
> believe that the record is really an electrical one.  Think hard about 
> this. Do the rule making authorities need new definitions of what 
> actually powers a vehicle?  Take  a hybrid vehicle. Doesn't the 
> gasoline motor provide most of the power? If so, why is it called a 
> hybrid?  If I could put a gasoline powered generator in a car and use 
> the gen power to run the electric motor that drives the wheels, would 
> that be electrical or fossil fuel powered?  It cannot run without 
> gasoline so is it defined as a petroleum powered car or electrical. 
> Isn't that what a hybrid is?  Me, I think that the drive mechanism has 
> to be primarily fueled by something directly and that should be the 
> definition. for instance the car that Jesse James used had a true 
> hydrogen motor. The fuel was directly powering the vehicle.  The Ford 
> Fusion and the Buckeye Bullet used electric drive to move the vehicle 
> and I think that is electrical. Not hydrogen.
>
>
> Any thoughtful comments out there? I am sitting here waiting for 
> parts....
>
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jdincau at qnet.com  Tue Sep 29 12:08:31 2009
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:08:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] FIA groups under catagory A
In-Reply-To: <4AC249C1.8060104@mayfco.com>
References: <F14FB47FD845455A8561DC260DC720EE@denpc>
	<4AC249C1.8060104@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <3E7FE813C7DB40C1A308FF97BC7B1BAC@denpc>

I thought we we were talking about the OSU car. Weren't they going after an 
FIA record?
Jim
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] FIA groups under catagory A


> Jim, how does that break down for an SCTA or USFRA event?

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Sep 29 13:01:01 2009
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:01:01 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] landracing.com
Message-ID: <0621A535DCC845DE94A998D9D5250309@GlenPC>

Just received a message from SSS that there is going to be an interruption of
2 to 24 hours from his web server. He will keep us posted.
Glen

From NT788 at comcast.net  Tue Sep 29 13:10:26 2009
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:10:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <45261.28177.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1841580611.6631361254251426165.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

FIM banned my flat bottom, what willI do?

Jack


Why not ask the FIA who classified the vehicle?
B 
DW




XanGo, the Whole Fruit Mangosteen Puree!
A natural anti-inflammatory Immune system booster & antioxidant.
http://www.joaniewarner.mymangosteen.com/
1-818-998-4435 B Dan and Joanie use XanGo, won't you?
www.mangosteenfruitinfo.com
B B 

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:


From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 8:29 AM


Dale Pulju sent me a note about the Buckeye Bullet setting a record of 300 +
mph with Hydrogen. B Now this brings an interesting question or two. But
first,
I say well done to that effort! B Now the questions: they B had previously set
a
record using batteries. Batteries are electric storage devices. So the record
was listed as an electrical record. Good enough I say. But now another record
is claimed as a hydrogen record. Yet the car's drive system was electrical.
Hydrogen (actually hydrogen and oxygen mix) B was used to produce electricity
which powered the car. B So was the original record using batteries really a
gasoline record because the batteries that supplied the power were charged via
some generator? Or Nuke because the electrons came from that? B With the H2O2
and the fuel cells generating electrons I believe that the record is really an
electrical one. B Think hard about this. Do the rule making authorities need
new definitions of what
B actually powers a vehicle? B Take B a hybrid vehicle. Doesn't the gasoline
motor provide most of the power? If so, why is it called a hybrid? B If I
could
put a gasoline powered generator in a car and use the gen power to run the
electric motor that drives the wheels, would that be electrical or fossil fuel
powered? B It cannot run without gasoline so is it defined as a petroleum
powered car or electrical. Isn't that what a hybrid is? B Me, I think that the
drive mechanism has to be primarily fueled by something directly and that
should be the definition. for instance the car that Jesse James used had a
true hydrogen motor. The fuel was directly powering the vehicle. B The Ford
Fusion and the Buckeye Bullet used electric drive to move the vehicle and I
think that is electrical. Not hydrogen.


Any thoughtful comments out there? I am sitting here waiting for parts....


mayf
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Sep 29 13:18:08 2009
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:18:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Pistons
Message-ID: <20090929191643.9BA7818786E@autox.team.net>

List,

Does anyone know who, if anybody, is making what used to be 
Childs-Albert pistons? The salt deities took one or two at WOS and I 
need to acquire replacements.

Thank you in advance,
Skip

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep 29 13:18:02 2009
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:18:02 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <94CBE2799B1C4CA2A71C43C17A66EA92@GlenPC>
References: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com>
	<94CBE2799B1C4CA2A71C43C17A66EA92@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <6B66CCA8-E5D7-48C5-9DD8-B4B9DC7AB445@comcast.net>

Same Ballard/Ford technology as Buckeye bullerr II.

Wes

On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:48 AM, <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> <speedtimer at beyondbb.com 
 > wrote:

> Didn't you guys forget Rick Byrnes and the Ford. He went 200 with a  
> hydrogen power vehicle.
> GB
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:29 AM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
>
>
>> Dale Pulju sent me a note about the Buckeye Bullet setting a record  
>> of 300 + mph with Hydrogen.  Now this brings an interesting  
>> question or two. But first, I say well done to that effort!  Now  
>> the questions: they  had previously set a record using batteries.  
>> Batteries are electric storage devices. So the record was listed as  
>> an electrical record. Good enough I say. But now another record is  
>> claimed as a hydrogen record. Yet the car's drive system was  
>> electrical.  Hydrogen (actually hydrogen and oxygen mix) was used  
>> to produce electricity which powered the car.  So was the original  
>> record using batteries really a gasoline record because the  
>> batteries that supplied the power were charged via some generator?  
>> Or Nuke because the electrons came from that?  With the H2O2 and  
>> the fuel cells generating electrons I believe that the record is  
>> really an electrical one.  Think hard about this. Do the rule  
>> making authorities need new definitions of what actually powers a  
>> vehicle?  Take  a hybrid vehicle. Doesn't the gasoline motor  
>> provide most of the power? If so, why is it called a hybrid?  If I  
>> could put a gasoline powered generator in a car and use the gen  
>> power to run the electric motor that drives the wheels, would that  
>> be electrical or fossil fuel powered?  It cannot run without  
>> gasoline so is it defined as a petroleum powered car or electrical.  
>> Isn't that what a hybrid is?  Me, I think that the drive mechanism  
>> has to be primarily fueled by something directly and that should be  
>> the definition. for instance the car that Jesse James used had a  
>> true hydrogen motor. The fuel was directly powering the vehicle.   
>> The Ford Fusion and the Buckeye Bullet used electric drive to move  
>> the vehicle and I think that is electrical. Not hydrogen.
>>
>>
>> Any thoughtful comments out there? I am sitting here waiting for  
>> parts....
>>
>>
>> mayf
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From v4gmr at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 13:31:34 2009
From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <4AC24C34.6030004@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <365901.58534.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Well since it's a steam turbine engine why isn't it listed as a turbine
record?

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:


From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
To: drmayf at mayfco.com
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 11:04 AM


Let me add some more fuel to the discussion. Let's consider steam.  If the
analogy between steam and electric or hydrogen is permitted then a steam
powered vehicle should be listed as what ever was used to generate the steam,
steam being the equivalent of electrons.  Then the record for the steam car
would be listed as a fuel car and classified somehow in that classification. 
Steam, as are electrons, the media which powers the final drive. So if a steam
car is a "steam car" then both the buckeye bullet and the Ford Fusion should
be reclassified as electric cars since final drive power was
electricity.   What if the steam car had used hydrogen to fuel th eburnes that
made the steam? Would i thave been classified as a hydrogen fuel car? Can't
have it both ways, I am thinking..

mayf

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep 29 13:32:45 2009
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:32:45 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <4AC24C34.6030004@mayfco.com>
References: <4AC227E5.1060708@mayfco.com> <4AC24C34.6030004@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <6FA04D4C-90B3-47D8-AB4C-5061EBED7F73@comcast.net>

No!  The deciding factor is what is used to drive the wheels of the  
vehicle,  Would you classify the Vesco Turbinator as gasolin/jet  
fueled powered or as a turbine no matter what the fuel that was used.

Wes

On Sep 29, 2009, at 12:04 PM, drmayf wrote:

> Let me add some more fuel to the discussion. Let's consider steam.   
> If the analogy between steam and electric or hydrogen is permitted  
> then a steam powered vehicle should be listed as what ever was used  
> to generate the steam, steam being the equivalent of electrons.   
> Then the record for the steam car would be listed as a fuel car and  
> classified somehow in that classification.  Steam, as are electrons,  
> the media which powers the final drive. So if a steam car is a  
> "steam car" then both the buckeye bullet and the Ford Fusion should  
> be reclassified as electric cars since final drive power was  
> electricity.   What if the steam car had used hydrogen to fuel th  
> eburnes that made the steam? Would i thave been classified as a  
> hydrogen fuel car? Can't have it both ways, I am thinking..
>
> mayf
> drmayf wrote:

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Sep 29 14:09:02 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:09:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] FIA groups under catagory A
In-Reply-To: <3E7FE813C7DB40C1A308FF97BC7B1BAC@denpc>
References: <F14FB47FD845455A8561DC260DC720EE@denpc>
	<4AC249C1.8060104@mayfco.com> <3E7FE813C7DB40C1A308FF97BC7B1BAC@denpc>
Message-ID: <4AC2695D.1010806@mayfco.com>

Yes, but they also run at SCTA and USFRA events as well...

mayf
Jim Dincau wrote:

>I thought we we were talking about the OSU car. Weren't they going after an 
>FIA record?
>Jim
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>To: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:54 AM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] FIA groups under catagory A
>
>
>  
>
>>Jim, how does that break down for an SCTA or USFRA event?

From bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Tue Sep 29 17:22:05 2009
From: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:22:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Bullett
Message-ID: <1122904386.5770691254266525890.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

I think we've all got caught up in thinking fuel cells as "powerplants"....not energy sources 

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep 29 18:53:25 2009
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:53:25 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Tire (tyre) question
Message-ID: <7CB3B34C-B312-45D6-AD67-C3BE51229679@comcast.net>

Dunlop made some tires for the Austin Healey cars that ran at World of  
Speed that were speed rated to at least 200 MPH.  Would there be any  
benefit to seeing what they say about higher speed ratings or are the  
Frontrunners covering that speed band adequately for price and  
performance?  Just musing while looking at the photos I shot.

Wes

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Tue Sep 29 19:24:19 2009
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:24:19 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] FIA groups under catagory A
References: <F14FB47FD845455A8561DC260DC720EE@denpc><4AC249C1.8060104@mayfco.com>
	<3E7FE813C7DB40C1A308FF97BC7B1BAC@denpc> <4AC2695D.1010806@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <001601ca416c$bc530030$6601a8c0@Rick>

I've been away visiting Jim and his family for a week and missed all this 
Hydrogen and FIA stuff.
This is an interesting topic BUT

Electric is electric is electric.


Until somebody got to FIA and convinced them to making a class for Hydrogen 
Fuel cell engine for power, even though the "engine" only produces 
electricity, heat, and water.

The engineers and scientists at Ford referred the power plant as a Fuel Cell 
engine and I suspect that most engineers working on Hydrogen Fuel Cell power 
also refer to it as an engine, as that is exactly the job it does.

I would bet my  next beer that Professor Dr. Giorgio Rizzoni who is the OSU 
advisor for their program went to FIA after the first year of success of BB2 
campaigning for inclusion of a "Fuel Cell Engine".
He is a very respected scientist and his international presence has great 
influence even though he was educated at Maize and Blue.

I can just see the complicated class structure related to electric cars 20 
years from now.
As you all have said the power can come from a number of sources.
For now SCTA/BNI doesn't have to address this problem, BUT it is coming.
Having had a fun year with the Ford Fusion, and the technology, I can see oh 
so many changes in the racing world.
For now, I'm happy returning to my "GREEN" methanol............with a touch 
of NITRO


Rick

From v4gmr at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 20:46:06 2009
From: v4gmr at yahoo.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] FIA groups under catagory A
In-Reply-To: <001601ca416c$bc530030$6601a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <156034.22678.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I can appreciate the difference between power that was generated elsewhere and
the storage medium (Batteries) powering the motor. And a car with a fuel cell
producing it's own power on board. But then we get into Diesel-electric cars
GE-Electromotive and such, or Nitro-electric cars. Should they run against
fuel cell cars?

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, Rick Byrnes <Rick at RBMotorsports.com> wrote:


From: Rick Byrnes <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] FIA groups under catagory A
To: drmayf at mayfco.com, "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
Cc: "land Speed List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 6:24 PM


I've been away visiting Jim and his family for a week and missed all this
Hydrogen and FIA stuff.
This is an interesting topic BUT

Electric is electric is electric.


Until somebody got to FIA and convinced them to making a class for Hydrogen
Fuel cell engine for power, even though the "engine" only produces
electricity, heat, and water.

The engineers and scientists at Ford referred the power plant as a Fuel Cell
engine and I suspect that most engineers working on Hydrogen Fuel Cell power
also refer to it as an engine, as that is exactly the job it does.

I would bet my  next beer that Professor Dr. Giorgio Rizzoni who is the OSU
advisor for their program went to FIA after the first year of success of BB2
campaigning for inclusion of a "Fuel Cell Engine".
He is a very respected scientist and his international presence has great
influence even though he was educated at Maize and Blue.

I can just see the complicated class structure related to electric cars 20
years from now.
As you all have said the power can come from a number of sources.
For now SCTA/BNI doesn't have to address this problem, BUT it is coming.
Having had a fun year with the Ford Fusion, and the technology, I can see oh
so many changes in the racing world.
For now, I'm happy returning to my "GREEN" methanol............with a touch of
NITRO


Rick
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as v4gmr at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From tatmatt at socal.rr.com  Tue Sep 29 22:24:35 2009
From: tatmatt at socal.rr.com (Matt Shuss)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:24:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
References: <1841580611.6631361254251426165.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <007901ca4185$eac75bf0$6601a8c0@mattshuss>

Which brings up the jet bike.
Since SCTA/BNI only allows wheel-driven vehicles and the FIM now requires a 
bike to have 30 degrees of lean, that jet bike can only run for time at the 
USFRA or private event.
Correct?


Matt

> FIM banned my flat bottom, what willI do?
>
> Jack

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Sep 29 22:24:47 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:24:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tire (tyre) question
In-Reply-To: <7CB3B34C-B312-45D6-AD67-C3BE51229679@comcast.net>
References: <7CB3B34C-B312-45D6-AD67-C3BE51229679@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4AC2DD8F.5010009@mayfco.com>

Wes, alternate sources for tires are always welcome! Ask them for sure. 
They may just be Y or W rated for that speed. But we wont know until you 
ask them..

mayf
Wester Potter wrote:

> Dunlop made some tires for the Austin Healey cars that ran at World 
> of  Speed that were speed rated to at least 200 MPH.  Would there be 
> any  benefit to seeing what they say about higher speed ratings or are 
> the  Frontrunners covering that speed band adequately for price and  
> performance?  Just musing while looking at the photos I shot.
>
> Wes

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep 29 22:46:07 2009
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:46:07 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <007901ca4185$eac75bf0$6601a8c0@mattshuss>
References: <1841580611.6631361254251426165.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<007901ca4185$eac75bf0$6601a8c0@mattshuss>
Message-ID: <F6085D18-92B5-45A2-90C5-6715AD5A419D@comcast.net>

Wrong.  USFRA does not allow thrust powered vehicles at our events.   
The jet bike is a private meet only vehicle.

Wes

On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:24 PM, Matt Shuss wrote:

> Which brings up the jet bike.
> Since SCTA/BNI only allows wheel-driven vehicles and the FIM now  
> requires a bike to have 30 degrees of lean, that jet bike can only  
> run for time at the USFRA or private event.
> Correct?
>
>
> Matt
>
>> FIM banned my flat bottom, what willI do?
>>
>> Jack
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Sep 30 13:48:59 2009
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 08:48:59 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Buckeye Bullet
Message-ID: <8BB2CDBC31744972A8CE279D9F0C2062@ChrisHarrisPC>

 FIM banned my flat bottom,
 
 Jack
 

 Jack, your like Mayf..................sitting round to much.
 Chris H..........................NZed.

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Wed Sep 30 13:58:30 2009
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:58:30 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] test
Message-ID: <002101ca4208$62ba5270$6601a8c0@Rick>

I have posted a number of times, but not seen my notes posted.....
TESTING

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Sep 30 14:08:01 2009
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:08:01 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] test
In-Reply-To: <002101ca4208$62ba5270$6601a8c0@Rick>
References: <002101ca4208$62ba5270$6601a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <20090930200634.E00EA187651@autox.team.net>

Saw one yesterday Rick.

Skip




At 12:58 PM 9/30/2009, Rick Byrnes wrote:
>I have posted a number of times, but not seen my notes posted.....
>TESTING

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Sep 30 14:14:24 2009
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 09:14:24 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] test
In-Reply-To: <002101ca4208$62ba5270$6601a8c0@Rick>
References: <002101ca4208$62ba5270$6601a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <4F8CD0C696C645FDA66D7A7F106FC4A3@ChrisHarrisPC>

> I have posted a number of times, but not seen my notes posted.....
> TESTING

Loud & clear 'down under' Rick.
Chris H...............NZed. 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Sep 30 14:29:42 2009
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:29:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <8BB2CDBC31744972A8CE279D9F0C2062@ChrisHarrisPC>
References: <8BB2CDBC31744972A8CE279D9F0C2062@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <4AC3BFB6.9080706@mayfco.com>

Well, interesting to know I have been sitting around to much. 

Hey, Jack, when did the FIM decide that a 30 degree lean was required as 
part of the motorcycle definition?  Sounds like they are protecting some 
ones record. Think that's it?

Back to the shop to sit around a bunch more. The new fuel tank has been 
welded up and now needs to be leak checked before I do anymore on it.  
The fuel tank replacement and move should be finished by the end of the 
week. Then I will sit around some more and build a new ice-water tank 
for the intercooler I am also installing. After that then I will 
relocate the water injection system as well, and, oh, the fire 
extinguishers. Then I will sit around some more.

mayf

Chris Harris wrote:

> FIM banned my flat bottom,
>
> Jack
>
>
> Jack, your like Mayf..................sitting round to much.
> Chris H..........................NZed.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 30 15:40:48 2009
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Shock Absorber Information
Message-ID: <911810.14630.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Does anybody know where to find specifications for shock absorbers?  I'm
looking for some heavy-duty front shocks that have an installed height of 13"
with bayonet mount on both ends. Monroe? Gabriel? KYB?  ???
 
DickJ
In East Texas

From NT788 at comcast.net  Wed Sep 30 16:05:23 2009
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:05:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Buckeye Bullet
In-Reply-To: <8BB2CDBC31744972A8CE279D9F0C2062@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <692425594.273881254348323508.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

You mean my bottom is flat because I sit to much? When "they" level the
playing field I'll bet my flat bottomB will neverB fit that!

Jack
B 



FIM banned my flat bottom,
B 
B Jack
B 

B Jack, your like Mayf..................sitting round to much.
B Chris H..........................NZed.
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 30 16:08:24 2009
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:08:24 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Shock Absorber Information
Message-ID: <4246352.1254348505122.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I went to my local parts house and asked if I could look thru their shock absorber book. At the front were the designs of the ends and how they were numbered. I went to the back of the book and the spec were given for extended and retracted lengths. I found the length first and then the ends by the number given from the front. I was pretty simple. To thank then I ordered the shocks from them. I found it easier than expected. This many not be possible if the parts house only uses computer catalogs. Good Luck

>
>Does anybody know where to find specifications for shock absorbers?  I'm
>looking for some heavy-duty front shocks that have an installed height of 13"
>with bayonet mount on both ends. Monroe? Gabriel? KYB?  ???
> 

>

>

>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dlodom at charter.net  Wed Sep 30 17:10:51 2009
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:10:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Shock Absorber Information
References: <911810.14630.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <026501ca4223$461a7cb0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Dick, Any parts supplier worth anything will have a " Buyers Guide " book or 
it will be inside the catalog. It tells you what you need to know about 
size, shape and type ends on shocks.         Doug in Big Ditch


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dick J" <lsr_man at yahoo.com>
To: "lsr list autox" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Shock Absorber Information


> Does anybody know where to find specifications for shock absorbers?  I'm
> looking for some heavy-duty front shocks that have an installed height of 
> 13"
> with bayonet mount on both ends. Monroe? Gabriel? KYB?  ???
>
> DickJ
> In East Texas
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as dlodom at charter.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Sep 30 17:39:11 2009
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (speedtimer at beyondbb.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:39:11 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Web site down
Message-ID: <69DD3152416241A6B7E1783D52DDDAE4@GlenPC>

www.landracing.com is still down for server updates. Not sure on when it will
be back on line.

Glen

From mike_lackey at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 30 18:06:40 2009
From: mike_lackey at yahoo.com (Mike Lackey)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Shock Absorber Information
In-Reply-To: <911810.14630.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <911810.14630.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <802874.21242.qm@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

You could try Doetsch Tech.  They have specs for most of their shocks on their
website:
http://www.doetsch-shocks.com/37.asp
http://www.shocksandsuspension.com/content.asp?id=1

Mike


----- Original
Message ----
From: Dick J <lsr_man at yahoo.com>
To: lsr list autox
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wed, September 30, 2009 2:40:48 PM
Subject:
[Land-speed] Shock Absorber Information

Does anybody know where to find
specifications for shock absorbers?  I'm
looking for some heavy-duty front
shocks that have an installed height of 13"
with bayonet mount on both ends.
Monroe? Gabriel? KYB?  ???

DickJ
In East Texas
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net 
http://www.team.net/donate.html

Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed
as mike_lackey at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 30 19:48:42 2009
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:48:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Web site down
References: <69DD3152416241A6B7E1783D52DDDAE4@GlenPC>
Message-ID: <4AC3B858DD4D44C0A714ED01A716F6DC@mydf7618c59bbf>

Stuff keeps popping up..I hope it doesn't expect me to figureout 
anything...........



> www.landracing.com is still down for server updates. Not sure on when it 
> will
> be back on line.
>
> Glen

From jon.the.wise.gdrive at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 20:05:42 2009
From: jon.the.wise.gdrive at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:05:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd:  Bullett
References: <441312699.6141061254355085415.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00403F19-D322-4500-A236-A3299526F790@gmail.com>

Meant to reply to the list. whoops.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net
> Date: September 30, 2009 4:58:05 PM PDT
> To: Jon Bishop <jon.the.wise.gdrive at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bullett
>
> I like it! You'd have to get your transformer checked and sealed!  
> Sneak puny a123 batteries in your framerails!

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon Bishop" <jon.the.wise.gdrive at gmail.com>
> To: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:40:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada  
> Eastern
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bullett
>
> More appropriately, it's just a contraption that turns hydrogen into a
> battery. The 'powerplant' is the electric drive motor, which they
> usually classify (at least on the Electric Vehicle Mailing list) by
> diameter...
>
> I think that if they are going to do anything with classes, it should
> be by volts and amps. That's really what determines how much power an
> electric motor will put out (provided the motor's windings can handle
> it). Otherwise there's going to have to be Lithium classes and NiMH
> classes and Lead Acid classes and Super Cap classes... and you see
> where I'm going with that...
>
> ~Jon
>
> On Sep 29, 2009, at 4:22 PM, bobbyhotrods at comcast.net wrote:
>
>> I think we've all got caught up in thinking fuel cells as
>> "powerplants"....not energy sources
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> You are subscribed as jon.the.wise.gdrive at gmail.com
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed