From saltrat at pahrump.com Thu Jan 1 11:21:12 2009 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 10:21:12 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump Message-ID: <20090101182019.30FB7187876@autox.team.net> Anybody have dry sump pump drive hp numbers? Might be an interesting comparison to submerged pump hp. Happy New Year! Skip At 10:26 PM 12/31/2008, you wrote: >Amen Jim, >I agree with all your pointers. > >Heard a story, BS or not about a Pro/Stock team dyno testing the >bottom end for least oil windage. Best HP 1380. Then one suggested >filling the oil tank and doing one quick pull with NO PAN ! >I figured a slight gain thru no pan cancelled out by lost power from >no pan vacuum. Story goes power jumped to 1420 HP. Less power to >drive pump had to be part of it >however...........................didn't catch on. LOL. > >Chris H..................NZed. > >>Chris: >> External screens are conducive to proper maintenance whether >> integral with the outlet on the pan or in line. The screened >> pickups require the pan be dropped, the windage tray removed and >> in some cases the pickups themselves removed from the pan for >> cleaning and inspection. We check the filter and screens after >> every run. Dyno tests we ran at Billy Williams shop on Dale Smarts >> drag race motors (blown alcohol) proved that the deeper the pan >> the better, dry sump or not. >>Jim in Palmdale ____________________________________________ >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as saltrat at pahrump.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From jolylance at earthlink.net Thu Jan 1 19:41:21 2009 From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 21:41:21 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids Message-ID: <000701c96c83$9f11cfb0$2101a8c0@WinXP> Newer variations on an old principle--any comments? Eaton Hydraulic Hybrids destined for UPS in 6 mos... http://www.automotivedesignline.com/news/212501881 and a Ford version........ http://www.newtechspy.com/articles06/hydraulichybrid.html Lance From Savethesaltflats at aol.com Thu Jan 1 20:07:38 2009 From: Savethesaltflats at aol.com (Savethesaltflats at aol.com) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:07:38 EST Subject: [Land-speed] Ethanol? Message-ID: Thank you Wes for your question about Ethanol and pointing to this article. Our opinion is that the article is comparing apples to oranges: A. Comparing an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) to electric motor technology is not a fair comparison. ICE at its highest efficiencies is half of what electric motor efficiencies are and the article is incomplete in other aspects as well. B. Present day infrastructure for transportation would require complete restructuring for the alternative energies described in the article whereas Ethanol requires little to no infrastructure improvements. C. The article doesn't mention that Alternative Fuel Vehicles (AFV) to run off these energy sources are no where near in mass production whereas flex-fuel vehicles are. D. In all the articles and research we've read Cellulosic Ethanol is favored. As it relates to lsr we feel it would be good business for lsr to support AFV Motor Sports, since the environmentally friendly cars we drive in the future will be made to perform better and faster as history demonstrates that testing and tuning petroleum products on the race tracks has improved, even reinvented the cars we drive today. Respectfully, The Singletons In a message dated 12/31/2008 12:43:23 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, wester6935 at comcast.net writes: Think E 85 is the answer? http://www.nextautos.com/stanford-university-study-shows-ethanol-be-worst-form -renewable-energy I wonder what the proponents would say about this article. **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From BWANA343 at aol.com Thu Jan 1 20:12:12 2009 From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:12:12 EST Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids Message-ID: In a message dated 1/1/2009 9:41:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jolylance at earthlink.net writes: Newer variations on an old principle--any comments? The IBM story is new, the tech is not. The Ford story is three years old , witnessed by the claim in it the vehicle will be "scheduled for launch for August 2008" Let's see what actually goes into production, as opposed to prediction. All the media seems to jump on any and everything they can label alternative, and we motorheads jump on every one, as a lot of them at least have potential eventually. Everybody keep sending whatever they find, these are great days for fresh innovation. BOB W ps, besides, these threads frighten the rulebook writers. **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From 23.weldon at comcast.net Thu Jan 1 22:17:37 2009 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 21:17:37 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids References: Message-ID: <002501c96c99$70bcd770$6401a8c0@S> Pretty slick. No question that the efficiency of recapturing and storing energy normally lost in braking will be better than using electric motor-generators and batteries. The remaining question is how far can the truck go on the energy it stores in accumulators of practical size and pressure holding capability. Recharging overnight wouldn't work unless an additional electric motor and small hydraulic pump were included in the package to repressurize the accumulators. The other issue here is that the efficiencies involved in the use of small diesel engines with power suitable for light delivery trucks would largely go away if the trucks were fitted with engines and hydraulic pump/motors of size sufficient to pull heavily loaded trucks up long hills. And note that the size of accumulators needed to store the energy that you try to recover from a fully loaded truck descending from say a 1000 ft elevation would be enormous. The numbers are reasonably easy to calculate. >From my experience high pressure hydraulic pumps and hydraulic motors have efficiencies in the range of 95% or better and a practical pressure limit around 5000 psi. The standard power calculation for oil pumps is pressure in psi times flow in gallons per minute divided by 1714 equals horsepower. For the pump you divide the horsepower calculated in the formula by the efficiency number to get the engine or accumulator input BHP you need. For the hydraulic motor you multiply the the horsepower by the efficiency to get the amount that goes to the drive wheels. So let's say you have a 50 gallon accumulator full of oil at a pressure of 5000 psi. At 95% efficiency that would give you 138 hp at the drive axle for one minute or 13.8 hp for 10 minutes. Good for a light delivery truck around town with short hills. Out on the freeway that energy would get a 4000 lb truck a bit less than 500 feet up a 4% grade (19ft in elevation) before it would be used up not counting the losses from aerodynamics, tire friction and drive train friction. Still looks reasonably good for urban light delivery use. Overnight recharges might use about 3 kwh of electric power and likely be able to propel the truck about 4-5 miles at 20-25mph. These are rough numbers with some assumptions on my part for power needed to move the truck on flat surfaces; so don't take them to the bank Ed Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids > In a message dated 1/1/2009 9:41:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jolylance at earthlink.net writes: > Newer variations on an old principle--any comments? > The IBM story is new, the tech is not. The Ford story is three years old , > witnessed by the claim in it the vehicle will be "scheduled for launch for > August 2008" From 23.weldon at comcast.net Thu Jan 1 23:00:46 2009 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:00:46 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids References: <002501c96c99$70bcd770$6401a8c0@S> Message-ID: <002d01c96c9f$770fe4e0$6401a8c0@S> Ha Ha Ha.... Oops!! I said the numbers were reasonably easy to calculate; but I still got one wrong. Something about those hollow spots all the gray hairs lead to. Anyhow I figured that the energy in the 50 gallon tank at 5000 psi would ideally lift 4000 lb truck only 19 feet. I was off by a factor of 60. (60 seconds in a minute) The calculation actually comes out to 1138 feet. That suggests that hydraulic energy storage braking on a long hill might be very possible and suggests that this scheme might indeed be practical for more than just local delivery trucks. What also struck me was that I do not see a real reason why a high pressure pump/hydraulic motor unit cannot be built into the transmission of such a truck and stored power transmitted to and from the rear axle via the conventional driveshaft. This would essentially allow trucks as they are designed today to adapt this hydraulic hybrid scheme without major design changes. Perhaps even an aftermarket retrofit scheme is possible, though I think with the cost of special high pressure tanks, high pressure hydraulic pump, drive shaft connectors, mounting brackets, electric clutches, 60 odd gallons of hydraulic oil and all the hydraulic lines and controls it wouldn't have a very good payback even with $5/gallon fuel costs. Sorry about the calculation mistake. Ed Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net> To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids > ....... And note that the size of accumulators needed > to store the energy that you try to recover from a fully loaded truck > descending from say a 1000 ft elevation would be enormous. The numbers are > reasonably easy to calculate. > ........Good for a light delivery truck around town with short hills. Out > on the freeway that energy would get a 4000 lb truck a bit less than 500 > feet up a 4% grade (19ft in elevation) before it would be used up not > counting the losses from aerodynamics, tire friction and drive train > friction. Still looks reasonably good for urban light delivery use..... From saltrat at pahrump.com Fri Jan 2 08:51:01 2009 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:51:01 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump In-Reply-To: <495D0F0C.4000706@mayfco.com> References: <20090101182019.30FB7187876@autox.team.net> <495D0F0C.4000706@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <20090102155001.6AAB0187661@autox.team.net> Yes we did go through this a while back but power required to drive the pumps was not discussed that I saw. Hence my question. It appears that the actual numbers are hard to get or nobody has them (which I doubt). Positive oil pressure during shutdown is the real reason I would consider a dry sump. Windage problems will happen with or without. Do I really need one? I could check the rod bearings on the cap end to see couldn't I? Skip At 10:44 AM 1/1/2009, drmayf wrote: >Skip, didn't we have a bout of this some time ago (ie, wet vs dry >sumps)? I dimly remember. But for a multistage pump, ie, one >pressure, maybe three scavenge, I suspect it has to be more. No >numbers, though.....I am watcing to see if anyone has them along with you... > >mayf >Skip Higginbotham wrote: > >>Anybody have dry sump pump drive hp numbers? Might be an >>interesting comparison to submerged pump hp. >> >>Happy New Year! >> >>Skip >> >> >> >>At 10:26 PM 12/31/2008, you wrote: >> >>>Amen Jim, >>>I agree with all your pointers. >>> >>>Heard a story, BS or not about a Pro/Stock team dyno testing the >>>bottom end for least oil windage. Best HP 1380. Then one suggested >>>filling the oil tank and doing one quick pull with NO PAN ! >>>I figured a slight gain thru no pan cancelled out by lost power >>>from no pan vacuum. Story goes power jumped to 1420 HP. Less power >>>to drive pump had to be part of it >>>however...........................didn't catch on. LOL. >>> >>>Chris H..................NZed. >>> >>>>Chris: >>>> External screens are conducive to proper maintenance whether >>>> integral with the outlet on the pan or in line. The screened >>>> pickups require the pan be dropped, the windage tray removed and >>>> in some cases the pickups themselves removed from the pan for >>>> cleaning and inspection. We check the filter and screens after >>>> every run. Dyno tests we ran at Billy Williams shop on Dale >>>> Smarts drag race motors (blown alcohol) proved that the deeper >>>> the pan the better, dry sump or not. >>>>Jim in Palmdale ____________________________________________ >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>>Land-speed mailing list >>> >>>You are subscribed as saltrat at pahrump.com >>> >>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>Land-speed mailing list >> >>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com >> >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From BWANA343 at aol.com Fri Jan 2 10:54:53 2009 From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:54:53 EST Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids Message-ID: In a message dated 1/2/2009 12:59:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 23.weldon at comcast.net writes: Anyhow I figured that the energy in the 50 gallon tank at 5000 psi would ideally lift 4000 lb truck only 19 feet. I was off by a factor of 60. (60 seconds in a minute) The calculation actually comes out to 1138 feet. Hey Ed , Might apply to quarter mile or now 1000ft racers. Say a 100 gallon tank , in a vehicle weighing half that truck's 4000 lbs in the example Ed used would give over ten to one ratio HP to weight in a package accelerates like an electric car, no ? Something you could scrounge up in a good junk yard . If you had Ed's background in both Hydraulics and I.C.E.s. Bottom line, like practically all Alternative power sources, you got to power it up at night for the next day, usually from electricity manufactured remotely. Bob, Watt ?, W **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From neil at dbelltech.com Fri Jan 2 11:02:52 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 11:02:52 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids In-Reply-To: <002d01c96c9f$770fe4e0$6401a8c0@S> References: <002501c96c99$70bcd770$6401a8c0@S> <002d01c96c9f$770fe4e0$6401a8c0@S> Message-ID: <86B10205462C479FA177EAD208F1B3E7@DBTech> Ed; 5000psi in a hydraulic accumulator is a bit scary in a vehicle. I'd rather not have an energy storage system that might go "bang" in a crash. Making the accumulator wall thickness larger increases its weight and winding it with carbon fibers makes it $$$. I dread the hydraulic fluid leaking out of that 5000psi system on to the road, too. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Weldon Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:01 PM To: Ed Weldon; BWANA343 at aol.com; jolylance at earthlink.net; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids Ha Ha Ha.... Oops!! I said the numbers were reasonably easy to calculate; but I still got one wrong. Something about those hollow spots all the gray hairs lead to. Anyhow I figured that the energy in the 50 gallon tank at 5000 psi would ideally lift 4000 lb truck only 19 feet. I was off by a factor of 60. (60 seconds in a minute) The calculation actually comes out to 1138 feet. That suggests that hydraulic energy storage braking on a long hill might be very possible and suggests that this scheme might indeed be practical for more than just local delivery trucks. What also struck me was that I do not see a real reason why a high pressure pump/hydraulic motor unit cannot be built into the transmission of such a truck and stored power transmitted to and from the rear axle via the conventional driveshaft. This would essentially allow trucks as they are designed today to adapt this hydraulic hybrid scheme without major design changes. Perhaps even an aftermarket retrofit scheme is possible, though I think with the cost of special high pressure tanks, high pressure hydraulic pump, drive shaft connectors, mounting brackets, electric clutches, 60 odd gallons of hydraulic oil and all the hydraulic lines and controls it wouldn't have a very good payback even with $5/gallon fuel costs. Sorry about the calculation mistake. Ed Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net> To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids > ....... And note that the size of accumulators needed > to store the energy that you try to recover from a fully loaded truck > descending from say a 1000 ft elevation would be enormous. The numbers are > reasonably easy to calculate. > ........Good for a light delivery truck around town with short hills. Out > on the freeway that energy would get a 4000 lb truck a bit less than 500 > feet up a 4% grade (19ft in elevation) before it would be used up not > counting the losses from aerodynamics, tire friction and drive train > friction. Still looks reasonably good for urban light delivery use..... Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Jan 2 14:02:19 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 13:02:19 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... Message-ID: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> Well, time to kick off the new year with a general question regarding ballast. I scanning the rule book I see that it only has to be bolted down, preferably to the frame and as low as possible is recommended. So what, if any, are general guidelines to screwing weight to the car frame? Som many bolts per pound? How many G's is it supposed to resist in an upset crash? Heck the motor is only generally screwed to the frame wih 4 bolts or so (2 front motor mounts and 2 for the trannyout back). So what's the rule of thumb for size and number of ballast attachemnts? Now, are the hotels accepting reservations yet? mayf From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Fri Jan 2 14:14:35 2009 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:14:35 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... In-Reply-To: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> References: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <6DDE877C-8C0B-48F9-BF4E-ADB9177563DF@nancyandjon.org> On Jan 2, 2009, at 4:02 PM, drmayf wrote: Now, are the hotels accepting reservations yet? mayf ______ Mayf: I just posed that query on the landracing.com website, and found this post: "I just called the Peppermill/Rainbow/Montego Bay reservation line to confirm Jan 9th as the day they will be taking reservations for Speedweek. They have moved the date forward to Feb 3rd, 8am mountain time." Give it a try if you'd like and let us know what you learn, hey? Thanks. Jon Wennerberg Tall guy with moustache and a pair of 2 Club hats From 23.weldon at comcast.net Fri Jan 2 14:26:26 2009 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:26:26 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids References: <002501c96c99$70bcd770$6401a8c0@S> <002d01c96c9f$770fe4e0$6401a8c0@S> <86B10205462C479FA177EAD208F1B3E7@DBTech> Message-ID: <000801c96d20$c7500120$6401a8c0@S> Neil -- I agree. The high pressure is a problem. Probably not a good DIY project. An awful lot of oil can leak through a hole you can't even see when it's got 5000 psi behind it. Such problems don't seem to discourage development work on hydrogen or even CNG vehicle technology. I suspect one of the big concerns for engineers is how to replace the flamable hydraulic fluid with fluids that won't burn. Fireproof hydraulic fluids and the internals of high pressure hydraulic pumps require expensive mediation to get them to coexist. But even at half the pressure their might be a decent payback. At 2500 psi you are in the realm of everyday hydraulic technology. ................Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'Ed Weldon'" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; ; ; Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:02 AM Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids > Ed; > 5000psi in a hydraulic accumulator is a bit scary in a vehicle. I'd rather > not have an energy storage system that might go "bang" in a crash. Making > the accumulator wall thickness larger increases its weight and winding it > with carbon fibers makes it $$$. I dread the hydraulic fluid leaking out of > that 5000psi system on to the road, too. > > Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ From neil at dbelltech.com Fri Jan 2 14:55:08 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:55:08 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... In-Reply-To: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> References: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <903325508D7F4CC3AC851274AB563320@DBTech> Mayf; Here's what I'd do-- calculate the shear load (F) that would be created by a crash of perhaps 30 Gs (A) on the weight (M) that you're bolting down. (F = M * A) Divide this shear load by the number of bolts (use as many as you can) and then look up the shear strength of various sizes and materials of bolts. Whatever you do use large washers under the heads of the bolts as well as under the nuts where they go through the sheet metal. A strong bolt is only as safe as the bearing strength of what it's put through. Add another safety factor to the calculated result if you want to be extra conservative. Maybe someone else may have a better idea..... Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 2:02 PM To: LSR Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... Well, time to kick off the new year with a general question regarding ballast. I scanning the rule book I see that it only has to be bolted down, preferably to the frame and as low as possible is recommended. So what, if any, are general guidelines to screwing weight to the car frame? Som many bolts per pound? How many G's is it supposed to resist in an upset crash? Heck the motor is only generally screwed to the frame wih 4 bolts or so (2 front motor mounts and 2 for the trannyout back). So what's the rule of thumb for size and number of ballast attachemnts? Now, are the hotels accepting reservations yet? mayf Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Jan 2 15:36:04 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 14:36:04 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... In-Reply-To: <903325508D7F4CC3AC851274AB563320@DBTech> References: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> <903325508D7F4CC3AC851274AB563320@DBTech> Message-ID: <495E96D4.6070309@mayfco.com> Wow, 30 g's. Man that is a lot! I bet that no one uses that high a standard, lol.. I have a 90 pound steel bar that I am gonna moiunt to my frame. Thanks for the info! mayf neil at dbelltech.com wrote: >Mayf; > >Here's what I'd do-- calculate the shear load (F) that would be created by a >crash of perhaps 30 Gs (A) on the weight (M) that you're bolting down. (F = >M * A) Divide this shear load by the number of bolts (use as many as you >can) and then look up the shear strength of various sizes and materials of >bolts. > >Whatever you do use large washers under the heads of the bolts as well as >under the nuts where they go through the sheet metal. A strong bolt is only >as safe as the bearing strength of what it's put through. > >Add another safety factor to the calculated result if you want to be extra >conservative. > >Maybe someone else may have a better idea..... > >Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ > >-----Original Message----- >From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net >[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf >Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 2:02 PM >To: LSR >Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... > >Well, time to kick off the new year with a general question regarding >ballast. I scanning the rule book I see that it only has to be bolted >down, preferably to the frame and as low as possible is recommended. So >what, if any, are general guidelines to screwing weight to the car >frame? Som many bolts per pound? How many G's is it supposed to resist >in an upset crash? Heck the motor is only generally screwed to the frame >wih 4 bolts or so (2 front motor mounts and 2 for the trannyout back). > >So what's the rule of thumb for size and number of ballast attachemnts? > > >Now, are the hotels accepting reservations yet? > >mayf >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From neil at dbelltech.com Fri Jan 2 15:42:48 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 15:42:48 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... In-Reply-To: <495E96D4.6070309@mayfco.com> References: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> <903325508D7F4CC3AC851274AB563320@DBTech> <495E96D4.6070309@mayfco.com> Message-ID: Mayf; The "30 Gs" is a WAG-- if an impact switch is triggered at 10 to 12 Gs, it makes me think there may be higher G crashes than that. Just a guess, though. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 3:36 PM To: neil at dbelltech.com Cc: 'LSR' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... Wow, 30 g's. Man that is a lot! I bet that no one uses that high a standard, lol.. I have a 90 pound steel bar that I am gonna moiunt to my frame. Thanks for the info! mayf neil at dbelltech.com wrote: >Mayf; > >Here's what I'd do-- calculate the shear load (F) that would be created by a >crash of perhaps 30 Gs (A) on the weight (M) that you're bolting down. (F = >M * A) Divide this shear load by the number of bolts (use as many as you >can) and then look up the shear strength of various sizes and materials of >bolts. > >Whatever you do use large washers under the heads of the bolts as well as >under the nuts where they go through the sheet metal. A strong bolt is only >as safe as the bearing strength of what it's put through. > >Add another safety factor to the calculated result if you want to be extra >conservative. > >Maybe someone else may have a better idea..... > >Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ > >-----Original Message----- >From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net >[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf >Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 2:02 PM >To: LSR >Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... > >Well, time to kick off the new year with a general question regarding >ballast. I scanning the rule book I see that it only has to be bolted >down, preferably to the frame and as low as possible is recommended. So >what, if any, are general guidelines to screwing weight to the car >frame? Som many bolts per pound? How many G's is it supposed to resist >in an upset crash? Heck the motor is only generally screwed to the frame >wih 4 bolts or so (2 front motor mounts and 2 for the trannyout back). > >So what's the rule of thumb for size and number of ballast attachemnts? > > >Now, are the hotels accepting reservations yet? > >mayf >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From v4gr at rcn.com Fri Jan 2 15:53:44 2009 From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:53:44 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids References: <002501c96c99$70bcd770$6401a8c0@S> <002d01c96c9f$770fe4e0$6401a8c0@S><86B10205462C479FA177EAD208F1B3E7@DBTech> <000801c96d20$c7500120$6401a8c0@S> Message-ID: <1F8392BA2B3245B7AB6875FDD68E6919@your55e5f9e3d2> Skydrol ? /----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net> To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids > Neil -- I agree. The high pressure is a problem. Probably not a good DIY > project. An awful lot of oil can leak through a hole you can't even see > when > it's got 5000 psi behind it. Such problems don't seem to discourage > development work on hydrogen or even CNG vehicle technology. I suspect > one > of the big concerns for engineers is how to replace the flamable hydraulic > fluid with fluids that won't burn. Fireproof hydraulic fluids and the > internals of high pressure hydraulic pumps require expensive mediation to > get them to coexist. But even at half the pressure their might be a > decent > payback. At 2500 psi you are in the realm of everyday hydraulic > technology. > ................Ed From neil at dbelltech.com Fri Jan 2 16:10:37 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:10:37 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids In-Reply-To: <1F8392BA2B3245B7AB6875FDD68E6919@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <002501c96c99$70bcd770$6401a8c0@S> <002d01c96c9f$770fe4e0$6401a8c0@S><86B10205462C479FA177EAD208F1B3E7@DBTech> <000801c96d20$c7500120$6401a8c0@S> <1F8392BA2B3245B7AB6875FDD68E6919@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: <622746F91BDE405A9CED5155F59258B3@DBTech> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: Rich Fox [mailto:v4gr at rcn.com] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 3:54 PM To: Ed Weldon; neil at dbelltech.com; BWANA343 at aol.com; jolylance at earthlink.net; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids Skydrol ? /----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net> To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids > Neil -- I agree. The high pressure is a problem. Probably not a good DIY > project. An awful lot of oil can leak through a hole you can't even see > when > it's got 5000 psi behind it. Such problems don't seem to discourage > development work on hydrogen or even CNG vehicle technology. I suspect > one > of the big concerns for engineers is how to replace the flamable hydraulic > fluid with fluids that won't burn. Fireproof hydraulic fluids and the > internals of high pressure hydraulic pumps require expensive mediation to > get them to coexist. But even at half the pressure their might be a > decent > payback. At 2500 psi you are in the realm of everyday hydraulic > technology. > ................Ed From FastmetalBDF at aol.com Fri Jan 2 16:11:12 2009 From: FastmetalBDF at aol.com (FastmetalBDF at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:11:12 EST Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Sam's '34 Comp Coupe at Maxton ~ Message-ID: From: FastmetalBDF To: DiamondDeuceCoupe at hotmail.com, Flatheadking at verizon.net, fah60 at comcast.net, v8ford at charter.net, Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net, mag-neto at comcast.net, ecpurinton at wildblue.net, DRAG INC, rudedog306 at juno.com, Willys37 at charter.net, Smokeyhenj at sbcglobal.net, Want1937hd, rarog at crocker.com, bcastine3 at cox.net, Millbrookhomes, HastingsV, Garage6 at verizon.net, dominators20 at comcast.net, djdybick at snet.net, tomshea at sopris.net, CHOPSHOPCUSTOMS at comcast.net, JackWegman at verizon.net, SetSailJkid, dickkiusalas at verizon.net, obrien_dennis at emc.com Sent: 1/1/2009 6:55:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Subj: Fwd: Sam's '34 Competition Coupe at Maxton ~ Remember this great coupe with classic lines from Maine ? ... a true hot rod built by a true hot-rodder ! ____________________________________ From: FastmetalBDF To: JackFB1320, fah60 at comcast.net, SetSailJkid, Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net, HastingsV, djdybick at snet.net, Flatheadking at verizon.net, rarog at crocker.com, joyseydevil at comcast.net, bcastine3 at earthlink.net, Millbrookhomes, DRAG INC, Want1937hd, ecpurinton at wildblue.net, Smokeyhenj at sbcglobal.net, kliesecp at sbcglobal.net, v8ford at charter.net, DiamondDeuceCoupe at hotmail.com, dickkiusalas at verizon.net, boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com, I fixMGs at cox.net, CMKD at hotmail.com, falken at ihug.co.nz, yesford at clear.net.nz, shea_thomas at msn.com, rudedog306 at juno.com, FastmetalBDF Sent: 10/3/2007 4:20:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Subj: Sam's '34 Competition Coupe at Maxton ~ (javascript:;) and _Make AOL Your Homepage_ (http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169) . ____________________________________ New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making _headlines_ (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) . **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From saltfever at comcast.net Fri Jan 2 17:16:05 2009 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:16:05 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Hydraulic Hybrids Message-ID: I think the intent is only to supplement initial acceleration during the typical city stop-and-go scenario. Regenerative braking can do this task well, at low cost. You only need enough energy to accelerate to city road speed (25-35) and no more. Even a truck van requires only about 20%-30% of engine HP to cruise at 30 mph. Most fuel consumption is used during the initial acceleration from a stop. If the regenerative power is applied to initial acceleration the effect is about the same as perpetual cruise-mode. Tremendous gas savings can be attained with relative simplicity and low cost. Steady-state, flat cruise of big trucks is fairly efficient. A regenerative system to make up for the long pull up the Rockies would not be practical. F-1 has mandated regenerative braking. After the rule was introduced, and after some preliminary testing a year ago, they quickly add a rule change limiting maximum power input to 80KW! I'm not clear on this but the power limit may be for the total race. Nothing like money and ingenuity-in-action to scare the rule makers. It was estimated that applying limited regenerative power for acceleration out of the turns would give a car about a 1 second lap advantage. At 120 mph average that would be about 12 car lengths each lap. Both battery and fly wheel technologies are being used. Some numbers I have heard about flywheels (probably carbon filament wrapped cylinders) are 6"-10" in diameter around 120,000 RPM. I'm not aware of hydraulic systems. -Elon. From 23.weldon at comcast.net Fri Jan 2 17:28:47 2009 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:28:47 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Hydraulic Hybrids References: Message-ID: <002401c96d3a$4108b430$6401a8c0@S> That's ultracentrifuge territory. I wonder what kind of bearing support systems they are using...... Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elon" To: "land-speed submit" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 4:16 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Hydraulic Hybrids > ........ fly wheel technologies are being used. > Some numbers I have heard about flywheels (probably carbon filament wrapped > cylinders) are 6"-10" in diameter around 120,000 RPM. I'm not aware of > hydraulic systems. -Elon. From saltfever at comcast.net Fri Jan 2 17:55:26 2009 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:55:26 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump Message-ID: <8652A90142E74BC6A1A6077D15CA8895@dim8100> Skip, after you raised the question I went out and put a torque wrench my 4 stage, Moroso, gerotor pump. The problem with quantifying ''dry sump'' is there are too many variables. HP will vary with, number of stages, oil viscosity, oil pressure, and gear type (spur vs. gerotor). Anyway, I put a torque wrench on it and got 14 inch ounces (with residual internal oil but not flowing oil). That seems quite high but I guess that is it's internal friction. If I had a torque sensor I could pump oil by using a hand drill . . .sorry. So if friction increases as the square of the speed (I forget); 14 in-oz (or .07lb-ft) at 5252rpm is about 5 hp in friction alone. -Elon From saltfever at comcast.net Fri Jan 2 18:21:00 2009 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:21:00 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Hydraulic Hybrids In-Reply-To: <002401c96d3a$4108b430$6401a8c0@S> Message-ID: <98E628AF6A4444289B4D39D15D31C7C0@dim8100> The problem with recall from memory is that it's memory! I stand corrected, the F1 system is called Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) and its ". . . use is limited to 60Kw, operated for about 6.5 seconds per lap, under the drivers control". (Race car Engineering 11/08, pg. 38). I'm not aware of bearing technology. There has been some talk about the effect of flywheels on the cars handling. -Elon -----Original Message-----That's ultracentrifuge territory. I wonder what kind of bearing support systems they are using......Ed From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Jan 2 18:29:51 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:29:51 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Hydraulic Hybrids In-Reply-To: <002401c96d3a$4108b430$6401a8c0@S> References: <002401c96d3a$4108b430$6401a8c0@S> Message-ID: <495EBF8F.8030800@mayfco.com> When I was fiddling with magnetic bearings, long ago and far away, I obtained some ultra centrifuge specs. Most used a hydraulic motor driven by a 220 volt motor pump system. The quill that the rotor mounted on was fairly small. As to those speeds, some small turbos reach those speeds using only journal bearings. A crash of a centrifuge or turbo at those speeds is not something you want to be standing near when it happens, lol. I had plans on designing a small mag bearing centrifuge which used a homopolar type of motor that was being developed then, by another company, to turn 100000 rpm directly and from 110 volts. I had designed a carbon fiber sample holder head to withstand 1,000,000 g. Again, a crash is significant. A flywheel, with an axial gap motor where permanent magnets are mounted on the flywheel, would be a good solution to starting and stopping. Vertical axis and then the car is always turing around the spin axis. The inertia motor (flywheel) would drive the electric acceleration motors, also axial gap either on the wheels or flywheel of the fossil motor, to some speed then assist the fossil motor for continued down the road driving. Then on braking, the flywheel motor spins the flywheel back to operating speed or at least a holding speed. I had my guys fab up some stuff that coul dcoast over night at some bizarre speeds. Some could run for more than 24 hours supporting the mag lev system during a power outage. As with all things, YMMV, lol. We had several crashes and some were indeed spectacular and very dangerous. interesting stuff. I was involved more than 25 years ago....I am sure technology has advanced a bit. mayf Ed Weldon wrote: >That's ultracentrifuge territory. I wonder what kind of bearing support >systems they are using...... >Ed > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Elon" >To: "land-speed submit" >Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 4:16 PM >Subject: [Land-speed] Hydraulic Hybrids > > > >>........ fly wheel technologies are being used. >>Some numbers I have heard about flywheels (probably carbon filament >> >> >wrapped > > >>cylinders) are 6"-10" in diameter around 120,000 RPM. I'm not aware of >>hydraulic systems. -Elon. >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From 23.weldon at comcast.net Fri Jan 2 19:15:04 2009 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:15:04 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump References: <8652A90142E74BC6A1A6077D15CA8895@dim8100> Message-ID: <002901c96d49$1a3b1690$6401a8c0@S> Elon-- That friction you are measuring is mostly drag from the shaft seal, a little bearing friction and some friction from liquid shearing due to viscosity at the pumping temperature. That will not increase a whole lot with speed; certainly not by a square function especially with racing motor oils at temperatures in the 180-200 degree range. At 80psi output roughly 90 percent of the hp to pump the oil will be what goes into building the pressure. The formula I gave in the other thread on hydraulic hybrids applies here. Fluid power is psi x gpm /1714 = hp. Divide that by about .85 (which factor allows for the inefficiency in the pump drive belts) and you'll get the horsepower use of the dry sump pressure pump stage. As far as the scavenge pump stages are concerned they will be pumping the same amount only to a somewhat lower pressure. If you know that pressure then use the same formula and reduce figure that dividing constant of 0.85 will be about 1.0 minus 0.08 x the number of scavenge stages (eg 0.76 for 3 scavenge stages.) Air entrained in the scavenge pump flow will not have a big effect on the total horsepower once the motor is up to speed and the pan has been "emptied" of residual oil that was there when the engine fired up. My numbers on this come from data I accumulated on the performance of small industrial gear pumps in my 1st job with Worthington pump 40 years ago. It's a subject I feel I'm fairly well versed in. (& I don't throw away very much). For anyone really that interested in the minutia of the subject I will be glad to copy and forward (snail mail or email) what you may be interested in. (lots of charts and pump performance curves.) Still, if anyone out there has seen actual test stand performance on multistage dry sump pumps, especially horsepower readings from calibrated electric drives I'd love to look at it and use it to refine the constants in my abovementioned formulas. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elon" To: "land-speed submit" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 4:55 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump > Skip, after you raised the question I went out and put a torque wrench my 4 > stage, Moroso, gerotor pump. The problem with quantifying ''dry sump'' is > there are too many variables. HP will vary with, number of stages, oil > viscosity, oil pressure, and gear type (spur vs. gerotor). Anyway, I put a > torque wrench on it and got 14 inch ounces (with residual internal oil but > not flowing oil). That seems quite high but I guess that is it's internal > friction. If I had a torque sensor I could pump oil by using a hand drill . > . .sorry. So if friction increases as the square of the speed (I forget); 14 > in-oz (or .07lb-ft) at 5252rpm is about 5 hp in friction alone. -Elon > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as 23.weldon at comcast.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Fri Jan 2 19:37:39 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:37:39 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids References: <002501c96c99$70bcd770$6401a8c0@S><002d01c96c9f$770fe4e0$6401a8c0@S><86B10205462C479FA177EAD208F1B3E7@DBTech><000801c96d20$c7500120$6401a8c0@S> <1F8392BA2B3245B7AB6875FDD68E6919@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: <8E8485D31C254B4DB06B705909EA1EF4@Glens> Skydrol, skydrol 500 A & B are used in commercial aircraft and are fire resistant hydraulic fluids. They will also remove paint, burn the hell out of your eyes, skin and melt plastics. It was Developed by Douglas aircraft and Monsanto (SP) chemical co. Many people are allergic to it as far as skin contact. Also you MUST wash very good before taking a wizz or have a hard time telling the nurse you don't what is causing the burn and rash. I have been through a major failure of a skydrol test stand and was covered with the stuff from head to toe. Not something I would want on a car. Could cause a lot of law suits. Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Fox" To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; ; ; ; Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids > Skydrol ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net> > To: ; ; ; > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids > > >> Neil -- I agree. The high pressure is a problem. Probably not a good DIY >> project. An awful lot of oil can leak through a hole you can't even see >> when >> it's got 5000 psi behind it. Such problems don't seem to discourage >> development work on hydrogen or even CNG vehicle technology. I suspect >> one >> of the big concerns for engineers is how to replace the flamable >> hydraulic >> fluid with fluids that won't burn. Fireproof hydraulic fluids and the >> internals of high pressure hydraulic pumps require expensive mediation to >> get them to coexist. But even at half the pressure their might be a >> decent >> payback. At 2500 psi you are in the realm of everyday hydraulic >> technology. >> ................Ed > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.8 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2333 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From saltfever at comcast.net Fri Jan 2 20:05:55 2009 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:05:55 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Hydraulic Hybrids In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ed thanks for the good info. Am I to assume that piston friction does not increase with rpm? Neil I remember that experiment but I think it was done with Kevlar. I don't think carbon filament was invented at that time. I remember it as "proof of concept only" and since it was successful there was no need to continue. -Elon -----Original Message----- (Snip . . .) It supposedly had a carbon fiber "fiber" flywheel running in a vacuum chamber. . . . Neil. From 23.weldon at comcast.net Fri Jan 2 20:40:04 2009 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:40:04 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Hydraulic Hybrids References: Message-ID: <004501c96d55$5d111c60$6401a8c0@S> Elon -- Piston friction where there is a plain oil film present is roughly proportional to speed. Add hydrodynamic films and that throws the proportionality off. This is pretty much the case whether it is a piston traveling axially in a cylinder or a ring "gear" rotating in a geroter pump outer housing. The geroter gear is far more predictable in the ability to develop a hydrodynamic film so can be expected to be more effficient with respect to friction. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elon" To: ; ; "'Ed Weldon'" <23.weldon at comcast.net> Cc: "'land-speed submit'" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 7:05 PM Subject: Hydraulic Hybrids Ed thanks for the good info. Am I to assume that piston friction does not increase with rpm? Neil I remember that experiment but I think it was done with Kevlar. I don't think carbon filament was invented at that time. I remember it as "proof of concept only" and since it was successful there was no need to continue. -Elon -----Original Message----- (Snip . . .) It supposedly had a carbon fiber "fiber" flywheel running in a vacuum chamber. . . . Neil. From joetimney at dol.net Fri Jan 2 21:08:41 2009 From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 23:08:41 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... In-Reply-To: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> References: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <495EE4C9.9030409@dol.net> Take a tip from NHRA, two 1/2 steel bolts per 100 lbs...they have done the engineering!!! joe drmayf wrote: > Well, time to kick off the new year with a general question regarding > ballast. I scanning the rule book I see that it only has to be bolted > down, preferably to the frame and as low as possible is recommended. > So what, if any, are general guidelines to screwing weight to the car > frame? Som many bolts per pound? How many G's is it supposed to resist > in an upset crash? Heck the motor is only generally screwed to the > frame wih 4 bolts or so (2 front motor mounts and 2 for the trannyout > back). > > So what's the rule of thumb for size and number of ballast attachemnts? > > > Now, are the hotels accepting reservations yet? > > mayf > _______________________________________________ From bernien2 at swbell.net Fri Jan 2 21:53:03 2009 From: bernien2 at swbell.net (Bernie Brown) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:53:03 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)31/17 Message-ID: Congrats to you Utah guys and Utah football. 13-0. Bernie From saltfevr at q.com Fri Jan 2 21:55:49 2009 From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 21:55:49 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)31/17 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bernie; Thanks for the Congrats. I think even Wester was a Ute fan tonite !! Dang, I shouldn't have had a friendly wager with KT! Now,wheres my sparkling cider! LOLTom ShannonMagna, Utah> From: bernien2 at swbell.net> To: land-speed at autox.team.net> Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:53:03 -0600> Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)31/17> > Congrats to you Utah guys and Utah football. 13-0. Bernie> _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are subscribed as saltfevr at q.com> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From rbuck at xmission.com Fri Jan 2 22:20:19 2009 From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:20:19 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)31/17 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah!!! Go Utes!!! Could they be named #1? That would really be ossum! RtR At 09:55 PM 1/2/2009, Tom Shannon wrote: >Bernie; > >Thanks for the Congrats. I think even Wester was a Ute fan tonite !! Dang, I >shouldn't have had a friendly wager with KT! Now,wheres my sparkling cider! >LOLTom ShannonMagna, Utah From 23.weldon at comcast.net Fri Jan 2 22:41:39 2009 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 21:41:39 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... References: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> <495EE4C9.9030409@dol.net> Message-ID: <006301c96d65$f4f1edb0$6401a8c0@S> Thanks, Joe ---- That's a keeper Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Timney" To: Cc: "LSR" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... > Take a tip from NHRA, two 1/2 steel bolts per 100 lbs...they have done > the engineering!!! > joe > drmayf wrote: > > Well, time to kick off the new year with a general question regarding > > ballast. I scanning the rule book I see that it only has to be bolted > > down, preferably to the frame and as low as possible is recommended. From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Jan 2 23:05:35 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:05:35 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Ballast.... and Hotels...... In-Reply-To: <495EE4C9.9030409@dol.net> References: <495E80DB.3040101@mayfco.com> <495EE4C9.9030409@dol.net> Message-ID: <495F002F.7060105@mayfco.com> Ok, so my added weight total is 180 pounds. With that formula I would only need 4 bolts to hold everything on. Do they specify the grade to be used? I suspect not, fearing the worst: ie we'll do the cheapest we can get away with, lol.. I think 4each 7/16 grade 8 will do just fine. Thanks for the tip though! I appreciate it. mayf Joe Timney wrote: > Take a tip from NHRA, two 1/2 steel bolts per 100 lbs...they have done > the engineering!!! > joe > > drmayf wrote: > >> Well, time to kick off the new year with a general question regarding >> ballast. I scanning the rule book I see that it only has to be >> bolted down, preferably to the frame and as low as possible is >> recommended. So what, if any, are general guidelines to screwing >> weight to the car frame? Som many bolts per pound? How many G's is it >> supposed to resist in an upset crash? Heck the motor is only >> generally screwed to the frame wih 4 bolts or so (2 front motor >> mounts and 2 for the trannyout back). >> >> So what's the rule of thumb for size and number of ballast attachemnts? >> >> >> Now, are the hotels accepting reservations yet? >> >> mayf >> _______________________________________________ From Rick at RBMotorsports.com Sat Jan 3 07:46:15 2009 From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:46:15 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)31/17 References: Message-ID: <000e01c96db2$08a30f00$6501a8c0@Rick> OH, whats football? From neil at dbelltech.com Sat Jan 3 08:16:12 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 08:16:12 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Hydraulic Hybrids In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <09DAF3F96DD143E5993065245902FD97@DBTech> Elon; It was less than 10 years ago so carbon fiber was readily available then. A company here in Tucson was supposedly involved in the development. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: Elon [mailto:saltfever at comcast.net] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 8:06 PM To: neil at dbelltech.com; drmayf at mayfco.com; 'Ed Weldon' Cc: 'land-speed submit' Subject: Hydraulic Hybrids Ed thanks for the good info. Am I to assume that piston friction does not increase with rpm? Neil I remember that experiment but I think it was done with Kevlar. I don't think carbon filament was invented at that time. I remember it as "proof of concept only" and since it was successful there was no need to continue. -Elon -----Original Message----- (Snip . . .) It supposedly had a carbon fiber "fiber" flywheel running in a vacuum chamber. . . . Neil. From v4gr at rcn.com Sat Jan 3 08:29:00 2009 From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 07:29:00 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids References: <002501c96c99$70bcd770$6401a8c0@S><002d01c96c9f$770fe4e0$6401a8c0@S><86B10205462C479FA177EAD208F1B3E7@DBTech><000801c96d20$c7500120$6401a8c0@S> <1F8392BA2B3245B7AB6875FDD68E6919@your55e5f9e3d2> <8E8485D31C254B4DB06B705909EA1EF4@Glens> Message-ID: Worked around lots of it. Didn't much like the stuff, but I could live with it by being aware of where I was and what I was doing. Some of the guys started saying that the stuff must be bad for you because it burned so much and there was always a mist in the air around the test bench. So the company rep came to UAL SFO and drank a shot of Skydrol in front of us. Now that impressed me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Barrett" To: "Rich Fox" ; "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; ; ; ; Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids > Skydrol, skydrol 500 A & B are used in commercial aircraft and are fire > resistant hydraulic fluids. They will also remove paint, burn the hell out > of your eyes, skin and melt plastics. It was Developed by Douglas aircraft > and Monsanto (SP) chemical co. > > Many people are allergic to it as far as skin contact. Also you MUST wash > very good before taking a wizz or have a hard time telling the nurse you > don't what is causing the burn and rash. I have been through a major > failure of a skydrol test stand and was covered with the stuff from head > to toe. > > Not something I would want on a car. Could cause a lot of law suits. > > Glen From drmayf at mayfco.com Sat Jan 3 08:53:51 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 07:53:51 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids In-Reply-To: References: <002501c96c99$70bcd770$6401a8c0@S><002d01c96c9f$770fe4e0$6401a8c0@S><86B10205462C479FA177EAD208F1B3E7@DBTech><000801c96d20$c7500120$6401a8c0@S> <1F8392BA2B3245B7AB6875FDD68E6919@your55e5f9e3d2> <8E8485D31C254B4DB06B705909EA1EF4@Glens> Message-ID: <495F8A0F.4010305@mayfco.com> He must have had a stomach bypass and a colostomy bag, lol... When i was around it at Boeing we tended to try an not get it on us in any way shape or form.... mayf Rich Fox wrote: > Worked around lots of it. Didn't much like the stuff, but I could live > with it by being aware of where I was and what I was doing. Some of > the guys started saying that the stuff must be bad for you because it > burned so much and there was always a mist in the air around the test > bench. So the company rep came to UAL SFO and drank a shot of Skydrol > in front of us. Now that impressed me. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Barrett" > > To: "Rich Fox" ; "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; > ; ; ; > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 6:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR Hydraulic Hybrids > > >> Skydrol, skydrol 500 A & B are used in commercial aircraft and are >> fire resistant hydraulic fluids. They will also remove paint, burn >> the hell out of your eyes, skin and melt plastics. It was Developed >> by Douglas aircraft and Monsanto (SP) chemical co. >> >> Many people are allergic to it as far as skin contact. Also you MUST >> wash very good before taking a wizz or have a hard time telling the >> nurse you don't what is causing the burn and rash. I have been >> through a major failure of a skydrol test stand and was covered with >> the stuff from head to toe. >> >> Not something I would want on a car. Could cause a lot of law suits. >> >> Glen > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From saltrat at pahrump.com Sat Jan 3 10:20:47 2009 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:20:47 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump In-Reply-To: <002901c96d49$1a3b1690$6401a8c0@S> References: <8652A90142E74BC6A1A6077D15CA8895@dim8100> <002901c96d49$1a3b1690$6401a8c0@S> Message-ID: <20090103171954.134C9187647@autox.team.net> Thanks Ed and Elon. If nobody has the numbers, I think that I will start by measuring the torque used to drive my BBC HV oil pump with the drill for preoiling. If I measure the reaction force I can calculate a torque number....... It'll be in the spring 'cause I have to redo the engine first. Thanks, Skip At 06:15 PM 1/2/2009, Ed Weldon wrote: >Elon-- That friction you are measuring is mostly drag from the shaft seal, a >little bearing friction and some friction from liquid shearing due to >viscosity at the pumping temperature. That will not increase a whole lot >with speed; certainly not by a square function especially with racing motor >oils at temperatures in the 180-200 degree range. At 80psi output roughly 90 >percent of the hp to pump the oil will be what goes into building the >pressure. The formula I gave in the other thread on hydraulic hybrids >applies here. Fluid power is psi x gpm /1714 = hp. Divide that by about >.85 (which factor allows for the inefficiency in the pump drive belts) and >you'll get the horsepower use of the dry sump pressure pump stage. As far >as the scavenge pump stages are concerned they will be pumping the same >amount only to a somewhat lower pressure. If you know that pressure then >use the same formula and reduce figure that dividing constant of 0.85 will >be about 1.0 minus 0.08 x the number of scavenge stages (eg 0.76 for 3 >scavenge stages.) Air entrained in the scavenge pump flow will not have a >big effect on the total horsepower once the motor is up to speed and the pan >has been "emptied" of residual oil that was there when the engine fired up. >My numbers on this come from data I accumulated on the performance of small >industrial gear pumps in my 1st job with Worthington pump 40 years ago. It's >a subject I feel I'm fairly well versed in. (& I don't throw away very >much). For anyone really that interested in the minutia of the subject I >will be glad to copy and forward (snail mail or email) what you may be >interested in. (lots of charts and pump performance curves.) >Still, if anyone out there has seen actual test stand performance on >multistage dry sump pumps, especially horsepower readings from calibrated >electric drives I'd love to look at it and use it to refine the constants in >my abovementioned formulas. >Ed > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Elon" >To: "land-speed submit" >Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 4:55 PM >Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump > > > > Skip, after you raised the question I went out and put a torque wrench my >4 > > stage, Moroso, gerotor pump. The problem with quantifying ''dry sump'' is > > there are too many variables. HP will vary with, number of stages, oil > > viscosity, oil pressure, and gear type (spur vs. gerotor). Anyway, I put From BWANA343 at aol.com Sun Jan 4 21:48:13 2009 From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:48:13 EST Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: NON/LSR/ TRIUMPH ROCKET III - 21ST CENTURY MOTORCYCLE MANUFACTURE Message-ID: ____________________________________ From: BWANA343 To: Want1937hd, vennard at gmail.com, stuff66 at sbcglobal.net, shawnpelkey at yahoo.com, RRtaxman, mikeraceman1 at yahoo.com, Mattwanner at gmail.com, lawrence_zarcone at yahoo.com, kturk at ala.net, kliesecp at sbcglobal.net, kb2dhg at optonline.net, juergen at hubbellandhubbell.com, jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org, joetimney at dol.net, hola.joey at yahoo.com, Jbrosi, FastmetalBDF, dklogic at verizon.net, dak744 at msn.com, CUW123, brmrc51 at yahoo.com, bobbyhotrods at comcast.net, Bobberg, biltulipane at msn.com, blitz3 at juno.com Sent: 1/4/2009 11:47:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Subj: NON/LSR/ TRIUMPH ROCKET III - 21ST CENTURY MOTORCYCLE MANUFACTURE Amazing new tech on You Tube _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKEuzxC4eGc_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKEuzxC4eGc) ____________________________________ New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making _headlines_ (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) . **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From Rick at Turborick.com Sun Jan 4 21:57:53 2009 From: Rick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 20:57:53 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: NON/LSR/ TRIUMPH ROCKET III - 21ST CENTURY MOTORCYCLE MANUFACTURE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000901c96ef2$2ba78670$82f69350$@com> :-) to funny.......!!!!!! Rick Yacoucci NW Cryogenics www.nwcryo.com 661-944-3468 -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BWANA343 at aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 8:48 PM To: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: NON/LSR/ TRIUMPH ROCKET III - 21ST CENTURY MOTORCYCLE MANUFACTURE ____________________________________ From: BWANA343 To: Want1937hd, vennard at gmail.com, stuff66 at sbcglobal.net, shawnpelkey at yahoo.com, RRtaxman, mikeraceman1 at yahoo.com, Mattwanner at gmail.com, lawrence_zarcone at yahoo.com, kturk at ala.net, kliesecp at sbcglobal.net, kb2dhg at optonline.net, juergen at hubbellandhubbell.com, jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org, joetimney at dol.net, hola.joey at yahoo.com, Jbrosi, FastmetalBDF, dklogic at verizon.net, dak744 at msn.com, CUW123, brmrc51 at yahoo.com, bobbyhotrods at comcast.net, Bobberg, biltulipane at msn.com, blitz3 at juno.com Sent: 1/4/2009 11:47:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Subj: NON/LSR/ TRIUMPH ROCKET III - 21ST CENTURY MOTORCYCLE MANUFACTURE Amazing new tech on You Tube _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKEuzxC4eGc_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKEuzxC4eGc) ____________________________________ New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making _headlines_ (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) . **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as rick at turborick.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From saltracer at awwwsome.com Mon Jan 5 09:05:13 2009 From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:05:13 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Subject: [Land-speed] Time to sit back and watch! Message-ID: <49622FB9.000003.01304@D3DP98F1> http://thefiftiesandsixties.com/CarsWeDrove.htm Some of you can remember this. Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_animation_monkey_en_020908.gif] From drmayf at mayfco.com Mon Jan 5 15:08:58 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:08:58 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Car Info Wanted... Message-ID: <496284FA.2070203@mayfco.com> Can some one, any one at all, tell me who owns/drives a Ford Taurus SHO in the F/PRO class, car number 1147? If you have info, I would like an email addy. SOme one on a SHO list wants to get in touch with him or at least find out more about the car.. mayf From saltfever at comcast.net Tue Jan 6 02:17:49 2009 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 01:17:49 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Hydraulic Hybrids Message-ID: <0E337925A2B6488196FBB8DDFE8457B3@dim8100> Neil: only ten years ago? . . and it seemed so long ago! CRS had me thinking of the turbine work in the 60's. You are so right. The Patriot used carbon filament. -Elon Original message: It was less than 10 years ago so carbon fiber was readily available then. A company here in Tucson was supposedly involved in the development. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ From dlodom at charter.net Tue Jan 6 15:24:03 2009 From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:24:03 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Trans axle identification Message-ID: <019701c9704d$801df750$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA> List, A friend wants to build a car and use this trans axle he has. He was told it is a Hewland 5 speed out of a 84 March Indy car. I know nothing about trans axles so I took some pictures. If you email me off list I will send you the pictures and maybe you can verify that is what he has. The only markings on the thing is 84 T 053 stamped on top of the case. It also is set up for air jacks. Any help will greatly appreciated. Doug in big ditch From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Tue Jan 6 15:27:28 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 15:27:28 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Trans axle identification References: <019701c9704d$801df750$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA> Message-ID: Al Teague ran a hewland in the liner Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Odom" To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Trans axle identification > List, A friend wants to build a car and use this trans axle he has. He was > told it is a Hewland 5 speed out of a 84 March Indy car. I know nothing > about > trans axles so I took some pictures. If you email me off list I will send > you > the pictures and maybe you can verify that is what he has. The only > markings > on the thing is 84 T 053 stamped on top of the case. It also is set up for > air > jacks. Any help will greatly appreciated. > > Doug in big ditch > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.8 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2338 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From lsrvette at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 20:45:44 2009 From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 22:45:44 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Trans axle identification In-Reply-To: <01dd01c97061$9abee470$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA> References: <799103.42433.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <01dd01c97061$9abee470$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA> Message-ID: <003001c9707a$73ffba30$5bff2e90$@com> Doug, I think what you have is a Hewland DGB 5 speed with reverse. Most likely set up with a limited slip. In 84 the March 84C chassis finished 2, 3, and 4 if I recall. One thought - I think I read the engine was tilted 3 or 4 degrees. Since it was a direct couple to the transaxle this may play into any set up you do if you try to keep the suspension. Then again, I may not know what I'm talking about. Parts (new and old), gear sets, and info should be available from Chuck Haines at www.can-am-cars.com Chuck is a good guy who has been collecting old Indy and CAN-AM cars for decades. His house is like a museum with if I recall, no less than 6 Indy cars in his basement and a nice collection of Offy's. He also maintains a sizable warehouse. I believe he is in Kansas City Missouri. I think I have his phone number at the shop if you need it. Have fun, John Staiger 569 - Berkeley From: Doug Odom [mailto:dlodom at charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:48 PM To: John Staiger Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Trans axle identification John, Thanks, Her are some pictures I took today. Best regards, Doug Hi Doug, If you drop me a pic or two I'll see if I can ID it. The transaxle may be either a Hewland or a Patrick/Penskey as I believe they ran there own units in the March chassis durring the mid 80s. Still have a few units around somewere... but thats another story. Best regards, John Staiger 569 - Berkeley From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Tue Jan 6 22:00:22 2009 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:00:22 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump In-Reply-To: <002901c96d49$1a3b1690$6401a8c0@S> References: <8652A90142E74BC6A1A6077D15CA8895@dim8100> <002901c96d49$1a3b1690$6401a8c0@S> Message-ID: <496436E6.1080702@wildblue.net> Smokey did a lot of work on dry sump and windage control systems. He even built a clear plastic oil pan about 3 feet deep. His justification for dry sump was it could remove almost all of the air from the oil. Everything else was just a side benifit. You might check his writings. Bryan Ed Weldon wrote: > Elon-- That friction you are measuring is mostly drag from the shaft seal, a > little bearing friction and some friction from liquid shearing due to > viscosity at the pumping temperature. That will not increase a whole lot > with speed; certainly not by a square function especially with racing motor > oils at temperatures in the 180-200 degree range. At 80psi output roughly 90 > percent of the hp to pump the oil will be what goes into building the > pressure. The formula I gave in the other thread on hydraulic hybrids > applies here. Fluid power is psi x gpm /1714 = hp. Divide that by about > .85 (which factor allows for the inefficiency in the pump drive belts) and > you'll get the horsepower use of the dry sump pressure pump stage. As far > as the scavenge pump stages are concerned they will be pumping the same > amount only to a somewhat lower pressure. If you know that pressure then > use the same formula and reduce figure that dividing constant of 0.85 will > be about 1.0 minus 0.08 x the number of scavenge stages (eg 0.76 for 3 > scavenge stages.) Air entrained in the scavenge pump flow will not have a > big effect on the total horsepower once the motor is up to speed and the pan > has been "emptied" of residual oil that was there when the engine fired up. > My numbers on this come from data I accumulated on the performance of small > industrial gear pumps in my 1st job with Worthington pump 40 years ago. It's > a subject I feel I'm fairly well versed in. (& I don't throw away very > much). For anyone really that interested in the minutia of the subject I > will be glad to copy and forward (snail mail or email) what you may be > interested in. (lots of charts and pump performance curves.) > Still, if anyone out there has seen actual test stand performance on > multistage dry sump pumps, especially horsepower readings from calibrated > electric drives I'd love to look at it and use it to refine the constants in > my abovementioned formulas. > Ed From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Tue Jan 6 22:00:22 2009 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:00:22 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump In-Reply-To: <002901c96d49$1a3b1690$6401a8c0@S> References: <8652A90142E74BC6A1A6077D15CA8895@dim8100> <002901c96d49$1a3b1690$6401a8c0@S> Message-ID: <496436E6.7090905@wildblue.net> Smokey did a lot of work on dry sump and windage control systems. He even built a clear plastic oil pan about 3 feet deep. His justification for dry sump was it could remove almost all of the air from the oil. Everything else was just a side benifit. You might check his writings. Bryan Ed Weldon wrote: > Elon-- That friction you are measuring is mostly drag from the shaft seal, a > little bearing friction and some friction from liquid shearing due to > viscosity at the pumping temperature. That will not increase a whole lot > with speed; certainly not by a square function especially with racing motor > oils at temperatures in the 180-200 degree range. At 80psi output roughly 90 > percent of the hp to pump the oil will be what goes into building the > pressure. The formula I gave in the other thread on hydraulic hybrids > applies here. Fluid power is psi x gpm /1714 = hp. Divide that by about > .85 (which factor allows for the inefficiency in the pump drive belts) and > you'll get the horsepower use of the dry sump pressure pump stage. As far > as the scavenge pump stages are concerned they will be pumping the same > amount only to a somewhat lower pressure. If you know that pressure then > use the same formula and reduce figure that dividing constant of 0.85 will > be about 1.0 minus 0.08 x the number of scavenge stages (eg 0.76 for 3 > scavenge stages.) Air entrained in the scavenge pump flow will not have a > big effect on the total horsepower once the motor is up to speed and the pan > has been "emptied" of residual oil that was there when the engine fired up. > My numbers on this come from data I accumulated on the performance of small > industrial gear pumps in my 1st job with Worthington pump 40 years ago. It's > a subject I feel I'm fairly well versed in. (& I don't throw away very > much). For anyone really that interested in the minutia of the subject I > will be glad to copy and forward (snail mail or email) what you may be > interested in. (lots of charts and pump performance curves.) > Still, if anyone out there has seen actual test stand performance on > multistage dry sump pumps, especially horsepower readings from calibrated > electric drives I'd love to look at it and use it to refine the constants in > my abovementioned formulas. > Ed From kturk at adelphia.net Wed Jan 7 02:14:07 2009 From: kturk at adelphia.net (KeithTurk) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 03:14:07 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Trans axle/ Berkeley References: <799103.42433.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com><01dd01c97061$9abee470$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA> <003001c9707a$73ffba30$5bff2e90$@com> Message-ID: <019801c970a8$4bbeec70$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> Amazing collection of knowledge... Hey John... how's the Berkeley coming? Keith From kturk at adelphia.net Wed Jan 7 03:24:36 2009 From: kturk at adelphia.net (KeithTurk) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:24:36 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Water Injection Message-ID: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> Just curious... anyone ever actually run water injection successfully? what where the results... would you mess with it again? and why do you think it worked... Keith From ddahlgren at snet.net Wed Jan 7 04:46:59 2009 From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:46:59 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Water Injection In-Reply-To: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> Message-ID: <6D7C0DE3E52E4AED83A4F32B8FF588A2@DaveSatellite> I would like to see a dyno sheet optimzed for with it and without with an apropriate fuel in both cases. In most cases why you think it worked is an equally interesting conversation as in 'think it worked'! Over the years I have found most racers rationalize why something works in direct proportion to the amount of time and money spent on 'the plan'.... As an aside many engines at Bonneville I have seen run are so pig rich that adding water to cool them down is almost funny at times. From jon.the.wise at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 05:08:04 2009 From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jonathan) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:08:04 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)31/17 In-Reply-To: <5f048ef70901070407g48ed02c8q954a56e4eb2c5c53@mail.gmail.com> References: <000e01c96db2$08a30f00$6501a8c0@Rick> <5f048ef70901070407g48ed02c8q954a56e4eb2c5c53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f048ef70901070408u296ee8a7yf455f5e8a0345728@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Rick Byrnes wrote: > OH, whats football? Really depends on where you are. Here, in the US, it's a game where you put foot to ball about a half dozen to a dozen times a game, the rest of the time you carry it or throw it. I never thought the name was appropriate. The rest of the world has the naming convention right, and play a game where you spent the better part of the game using your feet to control the ball. -- ~Jon From drmayf at mayfco.com Wed Jan 7 09:15:40 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:15:40 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Water Injection.... Message-ID: <4964D52C.8030904@mayfco.com> Keith Said.. Just curious... anyone ever actually run water injection successfully? what where the results... would you mess with it again? and why do you think it worked... Keith" And Dave said.. "I would like to see a dyno sheet optimzed for with it and without with an apropriate fuel in both cases. In most cases why you think it worked is an equally interesting conversation as in 'think it worked'! Over the years I have found most racers rationalize why something works in direct proportion to the amount of time and money spent on 'the plan'.... As an aside many engines at Bonneville I have seen run are so pig rich that adding water to cool them down is almost funny at times. " This is absolutley a very good set of thoughts and questions. And who better to answer than the two above? How about this? How about Dave doing the optimizing on an engine or chassis dyno with Keith supplying the hardware? I would like to see a set of test conditions where the three power adder types, ie, rootes, centrifugal, and turbo are run to see the effects of water injection. Two conditions of WI could be used: without methanol injection and with. To keep it simple, I would use some previously optimized mule motor for all tests. Same with the engine management system. Just swap out the top end components to suit the various power adders then optimize each with and without the WI configurations.To keep from clouding the issue, no other charge air cooling would be used: ie no intercoolers of any kind. Just WI. I see about 36 dyno pulls for the various configurations. Take the test data and then share it all with everyone and let the reader decide for himself. If I had name stature and recognition anywhere I would ask both Hot Rod Mag and Horsepower TV folks to help on this. And I suspect that some of the hardware suppliers would also get involved. The Blower Shop or BDS for a roots blower, Paxton maybe for the centrifugal blower and maybe Turbonetics for the turbo systems. Get FAST or AEM to do the engine management. Snow Performance for the Water/Methanol Injection. Me? I am in the process of using WI on my dinky car. Why? Well, I know what power levels I need to reach my one and only goal are and it is modest. Can be done fairly easily with money, lol. But I will use WI in a quest for reliability. I simply cannot afford to esentially purchase a new motor every August or September. So anything that can help the motor be reliable is a real boon to me. Water and methanol in the combustion chamber change the chemistry of the combustion to make it cooler. Cooler is of some benefit I think. If needed I would donate or contribute to the effort. How about the rest of you? mayf From saltrat at pahrump.com Wed Jan 7 13:38:41 2009 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:38:41 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Water Injection.... Message-ID: <20090107203850.04DC0187872@autox.team.net> I'd participate if the engine had a clear plastic pan.........I think that oil drag inside the engine means more than WI, personally, this while I install an intercooler on my deal. Am I biased....yeah, maybe, but I can still learn. Thanks Dave! I always value your opinion. Skip From lsrvette at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 18:56:46 2009 From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:56:46 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Trans axle/ Berkeley In-Reply-To: <019801c970a8$4bbeec70$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> References: <799103.42433.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com><01dd01c97061$9abee470$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA> <003001c9707a$73ffba30$5bff2e90$@com> <019801c970a8$4bbeec70$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> Message-ID: <000701c97134$63d1ed30$2b75c790$@com> Hi Keith, We just started working on the Berkeley this past weekend. After Bonneville we had some major honey-due lists to work through, not to mention repairing the tow vehicle, trailer and other damaged items from the trailering mishap, installed a new furnace in the shop and of course the obligatory PRI show and holiday family season (grin). Anyhow, we got our punch list together and started working it off... Fix the bent steering... fix the front king pin... wiring harness... fuel lines... and chute packs frames... then its let her rip time! I hope to see you at Maxton this spring. John 569 Berkeley -----Original Message----- From: KeithTurk [mailto:kturk at adelphia.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:14 AM To: John Staiger; 'Doug Odom' Cc: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: Trans axle/ Berkeley Amazing collection of knowledge... Hey John... how's the Berkeley coming? Keith From jgmagoo at comcast.net Wed Jan 7 21:33:28 2009 From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:33:28 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] Question About SCTA Online Store>From>JGMagoo Message-ID: <010820090433.8654.49658218000441B8000021CE22007507440101090E030906@comcast.net> Does anyone know what is going on with the SCTA online store. I tried to buy a rule book at Speedweek '08 but was told they were out of them. I ordered one on line a few days after I got home. (Mid August '08) I got an email response back immediately thanking me for my order and giving me my "order number" It is now Jan 7, 2009, over 4-months and I still have not received my rule book. I have sent them approximately six (6) emails during that period, quoting my order number and asking "Is there a problem?" No response to any of those emails. I have tried calling the phone number listed on their web site about 10-times at various times of the day and it is always "busy". What gives with that outfit??? JGMagoo From Rick at Turborick.com Wed Jan 7 22:10:04 2009 From: Rick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:10:04 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> Message-ID: <001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com> Hi guys Happy New Year!!! Does anyone know of any electric fuel pumps that are good for 1000 hp on alcohol @65 psi I see that Magnafuel has one #mp-4103 and Weldon has one #2345. Is there any others out there??? Any experience good or bad ???? Thanks Rick Yacoucci From ddahlgren at snet.net Wed Jan 7 23:58:58 2009 From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 01:58:58 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com> References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> <001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com> Message-ID: Why Electric?? Mechanical makes a ton more sense. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Yacoucci" To: "'landspeed at autox.team.net'" Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:10 AM Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps > Hi guys Happy New Year!!! > > Does anyone know of any electric fuel pumps that are good for 1000 hp on > alcohol @65 psi > I see that Magnafuel has one #mp-4103 and Weldon has one #2345. > Is there any others out there??? > Any experience good or bad ???? > > Thanks Rick Yacoucci > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as ddahlgren at snet.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From Rick at Turborick.com Thu Jan 8 08:16:46 2009 From: Rick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:16:46 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> <001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com> Message-ID: <002801c971a4$1fa7ddc0$5ef79940$@com> Hi Dave The liner is so narrow that we have to put everything in front of the engine, no room the sides So we have run out of room. We have a vacuum pump, alternator, oil pump and water pump already in front. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Dahlgren [mailto:ddahlgren at snet.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 10:59 PM To: Rick Yacoucci; 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Why Electric?? Mechanical makes a ton more sense. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Yacoucci" To: "'landspeed at autox.team.net'" Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:10 AM Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps > Hi guys Happy New Year!!! > > Does anyone know of any electric fuel pumps that are good for 1000 hp on > alcohol @65 psi > I see that Magnafuel has one #mp-4103 and Weldon has one #2345. > Is there any others out there??? > Any experience good or bad ???? > > Thanks Rick Yacoucci > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as ddahlgren at snet.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From neil at dbelltech.com Thu Jan 8 08:21:58 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 08:21:58 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com> References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> <001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com> Message-ID: <7A0B8E23AE7147B1962CB3707641F1D4@DBTech> Rick; It's possible to use two or more pumps in parallel to get the flow you need instead of one monster pump. I don't have any recommendations, though. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Yacoucci Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 10:10 PM To: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Hi guys Happy New Year!!! Does anyone know of any electric fuel pumps that are good for 1000 hp on alcohol @65 psi I see that Magnafuel has one #mp-4103 and Weldon has one #2345. Is there any others out there??? Any experience good or bad ???? Thanks Rick Yacoucci Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From v4gr at rcn.com Thu Jan 8 08:35:54 2009 From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:35:54 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Question About SCTA Online Store>From>JGMagoo References: <010820090433.8654.49658218000441B8000021CE22007507440101090E030906@comcast.net> Message-ID: They are out of them. They were out of them and still are. When the 09 books get printed you will get yours. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "land-speed-digest" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:33 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Question About SCTA Online Store>From>JGMagoo > Does anyone know what is going on with the SCTA online store. > > I tried to buy a rule book at Speedweek '08 but was told they were out of > them. > > I ordered one on line a few days after I got home. (Mid August '08) > > I got an email response back immediately thanking me for my order and > giving me my "order number" > > It is now Jan 7, 2009, over 4-months and I still have not received my rule > book. > > I have sent them approximately six (6) emails during that period, quoting > my order number and asking "Is there a problem?" No response to any of > those emails. > > I have tried calling the phone number listed on their web site about > 10-times at various times of the day and it is always "busy". > > What gives with that outfit??? > > JGMagoo-speed From sparky.2211 at cox.net Thu Jan 8 09:12:55 2009 From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 8:12:55 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <002801c971a4$1fa7ddc0$5ef79940$@com> Message-ID: <20090108111255.CNA0L.485822.imail@fed1rmwml36> use an electric for start and such---could you drive the mechanical off the drive train somewhere for the BOOSTED FUEL needs? ---- Rick Yacoucci wrote: > Hi Dave > The liner is so narrow that we have to put everything in front of the > engine, no room the sides > So we have run out of room. We have a vacuum pump, alternator, oil pump and > water pump already in front. From Rick at Turborick.com Thu Jan 8 09:55:27 2009 From: Rick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 08:55:27 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <7A0B8E23AE7147B1962CB3707641F1D4@DBTech> References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> <001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com> <7A0B8E23AE7147B1962CB3707641F1D4@DBTech> Message-ID: <002a01c971b1$e88f5f30$b9ae1d90$@com> Hi Neil we ran dual pumps last year and it worked but..... I was always worried about one pump dying and going lean Rick -----Original Message----- From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:22 AM To: 'Rick Yacoucci'; 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Rick; It's possible to use two or more pumps in parallel to get the flow you need instead of one monster pump. I don't have any recommendations, though. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Yacoucci Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 10:10 PM To: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Hi guys Happy New Year!!! Does anyone know of any electric fuel pumps that are good for 1000 hp on alcohol @65 psi I see that Magnafuel has one #mp-4103 and Weldon has one #2345. Is there any others out there??? Any experience good or bad ???? Thanks Rick Yacoucci Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Thu Jan 8 10:55:44 2009 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:55:44 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <002801c971a4$1fa7ddc0$5ef79940$@com> References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> <001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com> <002801c971a4$1fa7ddc0$5ef79940$@com> Message-ID: <49663E20.2040205@wildblue.net> Is there room for it on the back of the motor, driven by the cam? It works on sprint cars. Bryan Rick Yacoucci wrote: > Hi Dave > The liner is so narrow that we have to put everything in front of the > engine, no room the sides > So we have run out of room. We have a vacuum pump, alternator, oil pump and > water pump already in front. From Rick at Turborick.com Thu Jan 8 11:06:49 2009 From: Rick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:06:49 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <49663E20.2040205@wildblue.net> References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> <001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com> <002801c971a4$1fa7ddc0$5ef79940$@com> <49663E20.2040205@wildblue.net> Message-ID: <000501c971bb$e0e5f640$a2b1e2c0$@com> Hi Bryan Do you have any web links that show this configuration?? Rick -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Savage Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: Rick Yacoucci Cc: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Is there room for it on the back of the motor, driven by the cam? It works on sprint cars. Bryan Rick Yacoucci wrote: > Hi Dave > The liner is so narrow that we have to put everything in front of the > engine, no room the sides > So we have run out of room. We have a vacuum pump, alternator, oil pump and > water pump already in front. Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as rick at turborick.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com Thu Jan 8 12:04:06 2009 From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:04:06 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <000501c971bb$e0e5f640$a2b1e2c0$@com> References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c><001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com><002801c971a4$1fa7ddc0$5ef79940$@com> <49663E20.2040205@wildblue.net> <000501c971bb$e0e5f640$a2b1e2c0$@com> Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B739D5D@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com> http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Hilborn-Direct-Drive-Fuel-Pump-17-GPM,320. html ?? -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Yacoucci Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:07 PM To: 'Bryan Savage' Cc: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Hi Bryan Do you have any web links that show this configuration?? Rick -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Savage Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: Rick Yacoucci Cc: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Is there room for it on the back of the motor, driven by the cam? It works on sprint cars. Bryan Rick Yacoucci wrote: > Hi Dave > The liner is so narrow that we have to put everything in front of the > engine, no room the sides So we have run out of room. We have a vacuum > pump, alternator, oil pump and > water pump already in front. Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as rick at turborick.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From Rick at Turborick.com Thu Jan 8 12:16:27 2009 From: Rick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:16:27 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B739D5D@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com> References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c><001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com><002801c971a4$1fa7ddc0$5ef79940$@com> <49663E20.2040205@wildblue.net> <000501c971bb$e0e5f640$a2b1e2c0$@com> <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B739D5D@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com> Message-ID: <000f01c971c5$9b74d130$d25e7390$@com> Mike, John and Bryan Are these not for the front of the engine?? Rick -----Original Message----- From: MEIERLE Mike [mailto:Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:04 AM To: Rick Yacoucci; Bryan Savage Cc: landspeed at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Hilborn-Direct-Drive-Fuel-Pump-17-GPM,320. html ?? -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Yacoucci Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:07 PM To: 'Bryan Savage' Cc: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Hi Bryan Do you have any web links that show this configuration?? Rick -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Savage Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: Rick Yacoucci Cc: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Is there room for it on the back of the motor, driven by the cam? It works on sprint cars. Bryan Rick Yacoucci wrote: > Hi Dave > The liner is so narrow that we have to put everything in front of the > engine, no room the sides So we have run out of room. We have a vacuum > pump, alternator, oil pump and > water pump already in front. Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as rick at turborick.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From Rick at Turborick.com Thu Jan 8 13:48:18 2009 From: Rick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:48:18 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <000f01c971c5$9b74d130$d25e7390$@com> References: <01af01c970b2$2425b3b0$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c><001701c9714f$5e2a10e0$1a7e32a0$@com><002801c971a4$1fa7ddc0$5ef79940$@com> <49663E20.2040205@wildblue.net> <000501c971bb$e0e5f640$a2b1e2c0$@com> <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B739D5D@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com> <000f01c971c5$9b74d130$d25e7390$@com> Message-ID: <001e01c971d2$6fe26a70$4fa73f50$@com> For anyone who hasn't got the kinsler catalog it's really good reading!!! They have been really busy in the last 10 years you can download it here http://www.kinsler.com/Cat_32_Whole_PDF/Cat_32_Whole_PDF_sm.pdf Rick -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Yacoucci Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:16 AM To: 'MEIERLE Mike'; 'Bryan Savage' Cc: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Mike, John and Bryan Are these not for the front of the engine?? Rick -----Original Message----- From: MEIERLE Mike [mailto:Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:04 AM To: Rick Yacoucci; Bryan Savage Cc: landspeed at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Hilborn-Direct-Drive-Fuel-Pump-17-GPM,320. html ?? -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Yacoucci Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:07 PM To: 'Bryan Savage' Cc: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Hi Bryan Do you have any web links that show this configuration?? Rick -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Savage Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: Rick Yacoucci Cc: 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Is there room for it on the back of the motor, driven by the cam? It works on sprint cars. Bryan Rick Yacoucci wrote: > Hi Dave > The liner is so narrow that we have to put everything in front of the > engine, no room the sides So we have run out of room. We have a vacuum > pump, alternator, oil pump and > water pump already in front. Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as rick at turborick.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as rick at turborick.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From jdincau at qnet.com Thu Jan 8 13:57:19 2009 From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:57:19 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <93DA8A1BCB2C4EA9ACD363154D6E9CDD@i> References: <93DA8A1BCB2C4EA9ACD363154D6E9CDD@i> Message-ID: Rick, The setup they are refering to is for sprint cars that allows the fuel pump to be driven off the back of the cam. Problem is Sprinters use no flywheel or clutch so there is nothing in the way. Typicaly the block sits against the 1/4 " firewall with an access hole for the fuel pump to stick through. I dont think many use this setup any more most having changed to a flex drive with the pump in the fuel tank. they may still drive the flex coupling from the back of the block though. I am sorry but I have no links to provide. Jim in Palmdale From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Thu Jan 8 14:15:37 2009 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:15:37 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: References: <93DA8A1BCB2C4EA9ACD363154D6E9CDD@i> Message-ID: <49666CF9.1060209@wildblue.net> Thanks Rick, I didn't explain it at all. Bryan Jim Dincau wrote: > Rick, > The setup they are refering to is for sprint cars that allows the fuel > pump to be driven off the back of the cam. Problem is Sprinters use no > flywheel or clutch so there is nothing in the way. Typicaly the block sits > against the 1/4 " firewall with an access hole for the fuel pump to stick > through. I dont think many use this setup any more most having changed to a > flex drive with the pump in the fuel tank. they may still drive the flex > coupling from the back of the block though. I am sorry but I have no links > to provide. > Jim in Palmdale > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as b.a.savage at wildblue.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From Rick at Turborick.com Thu Jan 8 14:23:16 2009 From: Rick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:23:16 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps In-Reply-To: <49666CF9.1060209@wildblue.net> References: <93DA8A1BCB2C4EA9ACD363154D6E9CDD@i> <49666CF9.1060209@wildblue.net> Message-ID: <002201c971d7$526926a0$f73b73e0$@com> Thanks Jim Now I understand Rick -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Savage Jr. [mailto:basavage at wildblue.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Savage Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:16 PM To: Jim Dincau Cc: land Speed List; Rick Yacoucci Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric fuel pumps Thanks Rick, I didn't explain it at all. Bryan Jim Dincau wrote: > Rick, > The setup they are refering to is for sprint cars that allows the fuel > pump to be driven off the back of the cam. Problem is Sprinters use no > flywheel or clutch so there is nothing in the way. Typicaly the block sits > against the 1/4 " firewall with an access hole for the fuel pump to stick > through. I dont think many use this setup any more most having changed to a > flex drive with the pump in the fuel tank. they may still drive the flex > coupling from the back of the block though. I am sorry but I have no links > to provide. > Jim in Palmdale > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as b.a.savage at wildblue.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From saltfever at comcast.net Thu Jan 8 15:00:35 2009 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:00:35 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Water Injection Message-ID: Interesting thread . . . thanks for the comments. Just to mention a subtlety that may get missed. You can run water injection in a GAS class as long as the water tank is inspected and sealed. If you add methanol to the water you are now in a FUEL class! -Elon From saltfever at comcast.net Thu Jan 8 17:37:51 2009 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:37:51 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Rear Pump Message-ID: Rick: I have seen the pump drive Brian is talking about. However, for the life of me (and a search of my favorites) I can't find the brand name. I know Tilton and Quarter Master all make rear mounted starters for sprint cars. I thought one of them offered the rear mounted pump drive but I can't find it. However, Waterman makes a great cable drive that opens up many possibilities for you! http://www.watermanracing.com/dirt_modified_kit.htm I agree that a mechanical pump (with its greater power density) is far better than any electrical unit. I get the digest and don't see replies in real time. Apologies if this redundant. -Elon From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 8 17:40:18 2009 From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:40:18 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] Rear Pump In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi fellers - it's prolly a Kinsler. Check Speedway Motors online first. those are very pop'lar in the Sprinter 'community' (hows that for "PC" ? ;-) c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug ' -105 + miles south of the world famous 'Syracuse Mile ' -241.4 miles north of the Williams Grove Speedway pit gate -2247 or so miles due east of the marvelous Bonneville Salt Flats but never more than a few feet from a cold one Cold Beer, Hot Blues, and warm willin' wimin' is what we're all about.... Speedway Bikes, Minibikes and Harley- D's rode with equal joy, Dog Training, Bear neutering, Emergency Airship repair, Hot air , Aerial Surveillance, Corrupt Politicians exposed, Midgets, Sprint Cars -and 'Slide Jobs' truly appreciated for the FINE ART that they are > From: saltfever at comcast.net > To: land-speed at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:37:51 -0800 > Subject: [Land-speed] Rear Pump Rick: I have seen the pump drive Brian is talking about. However, for the life of me (and a search of my favorites) I can't find the brand name. I > know Tilton and Quarter Master all make rear mounted starters for sprint cars. I thought one of them offered the rear mounted pump drive but I can't find it. However, Waterman makes a great cable drive that opens up many possibilities for you! http://www.watermanracing.com/dirt_modified_kit.htm I agree that a mechanical pump (with its greater power density) is far better than any electrical unit. I get the digest and don't see replies in real time. Apologies if this redundant. -Elon _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail.: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_ 012009 From saltfevr at q.com Thu Jan 8 20:46:16 2009 From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:46:16 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) 1959 Detroit NHRA Color Video Message-ID: Came across this 15 min. 1959 NHRA Nats. video. Had never seen it before. Great shots of Wally Parks,Robert Petersen,Ohio George,Art Arfons,and several Dragmaster teams. Scroll down past the Drag History section to play video arrow. Enjoy!! http://www.dragcars.com/html/drag_history.html What a simpler time! Gotta love the flagman..Tom ShannonMagna, Utah From wester6935 at comcast.net Fri Jan 9 06:20:34 2009 From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 06:20:34 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Utah tries 80 on I 15 Message-ID: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705276163,00.html?linkTrack=Email%2DGME This just makes the usual speeds closer to legal. The section aroound Fillmore is prime ticketing territory for the UHP when the universities in Utah let out for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring Break and at the end of classes in the spring. I wonder if they will be able to control speeds better by this boost in the limit? Wes From Rick at Turborick.com Fri Jan 9 08:09:37 2009 From: Rick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:09:37 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004301c9726c$49fd6ef0$ddf84cd0$@com> Hi anybody have any experience with the Moran adjustable injector? Here is what there web page says EFI guru Mike Moran makes it easy for EFI engines to produce 1,000 to 4,000 HP with either gasoline or methanol, with the new M.R.E. PowerTip 5 fuel injector. Machined from a proprietary material, coated with titanium nitride, these PowerTip injectors flow from 150 lb/hr up to 600 lb/hr. The PowerTip 5 was designed as the first purpose built racing fuel injector. The injectors operate linearly with pulse width as small as 1.5 milliseconds and opens with the standard 4/1 amp peak & hold ECU drivers. Plus the M.R.E. PowerTip injector is a direct replacement for all standard injectors and are compatible with all aftermarket E.F.I systems out of the box, no injector driver adapters needed. Order yours today, Starting at $236 each. http://www.moranmotorsports.com/products/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=63&p roducts_id=103 From ddahlgren at snet.net Fri Jan 9 14:32:28 2009 From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:32:28 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector In-Reply-To: <004301c9726c$49fd6ef0$ddf84cd0$@com> References: <004301c9726c$49fd6ef0$ddf84cd0$@com> Message-ID: <7EDB8D022B114B9EB71E83D5EDA049F7@DaveSatellite> Give some thought to a minimum pulse of 1.5 ms and a 600 lb/hr injector... Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Yacoucci" To: "'LAND SPEED LIST'" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector > Hi anybody have any experience with the Moran adjustable injector? > > Here is what there web page says > EFI guru Mike Moran makes it easy for EFI engines to produce 1,000 to > 4,000 > HP with either gasoline or methanol, with the new M.R.E. PowerTip 5 fuel > injector. Machined from a proprietary material, coated with titanium > nitride, these PowerTip injectors flow from 150 lb/hr up to 600 lb/hr. The > PowerTip 5 was designed as the first purpose built racing fuel injector. > The > injectors operate linearly with pulse width as small as 1.5 milliseconds > and > opens with the standard 4/1 amp peak & hold ECU drivers. Plus the M.R.E. > PowerTip injector is a direct replacement for all standard injectors and > are > compatible with all aftermarket E.F.I systems out of the box, no injector > driver adapters needed. > Order yours today, Starting at $236 each. > http://www.moranmotorsports.com/products/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=63&p > roducts_id=103 From wester6935 at comcast.net Fri Jan 9 16:11:57 2009 From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:11:57 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Totally non LSR... but fun music! Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsXyKV8ElkM&featur From adin at frontier.net Fri Jan 9 17:32:23 2009 From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:32:23 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Totally non LSR... but fun music! References: Message-ID: <005301c972ba$e828eed0$6401a8c0@ZTxp> Thanks for that! Love that hot fiddlin' . . . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wester Potter" To: "LAND SPEED LIST" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:11 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Totally non LSR... but fun music! > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsXyKV8ElkM&featur > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From Rick at Turborick.com Fri Jan 9 17:47:18 2009 From: Rick at Turborick.com (Rick Yacoucci) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:47:18 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector In-Reply-To: <7EDB8D022B114B9EB71E83D5EDA049F7@DaveSatellite> References: <004301c9726c$49fd6ef0$ddf84cd0$@com> <7EDB8D022B114B9EB71E83D5EDA049F7@DaveSatellite> Message-ID: <005d01c972bc$fda3fa50$f8ebeef0$@com> I was thinking 300 lb/hr for my setup "The injectors operate linearly with pulse width as small as 1.5 milliseconds" The way I understand this is that they will pulse under 1.5ms but not linearly.... Am I wrong in that assumption ? Rick -----Original Message----- From: Dave Dahlgren [mailto:ddahlgren at snet.net] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 1:32 PM To: Rick Yacoucci; 'LAND SPEED LIST' Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector Give some thought to a minimum pulse of 1.5 ms and a 600 lb/hr injector... Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Yacoucci" To: "'LAND SPEED LIST'" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector > Hi anybody have any experience with the Moran adjustable injector? > > Here is what there web page says > EFI guru Mike Moran makes it easy for EFI engines to produce 1,000 to > 4,000 > HP with either gasoline or methanol, with the new M.R.E. PowerTip 5 fuel > injector. Machined from a proprietary material, coated with titanium > nitride, these PowerTip injectors flow from 150 lb/hr up to 600 lb/hr. The > PowerTip 5 was designed as the first purpose built racing fuel injector. > The > injectors operate linearly with pulse width as small as 1.5 milliseconds > and > opens with the standard 4/1 amp peak & hold ECU drivers. Plus the M.R.E. > PowerTip injector is a direct replacement for all standard injectors and > are > compatible with all aftermarket E.F.I systems out of the box, no injector > driver adapters needed. > Order yours today, Starting at $236 each. > http://www.moranmotorsports.com/products/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=63&p > roducts_id=103 From karhu at california.com Fri Jan 9 18:32:38 2009 From: karhu at california.com (Benn) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:32:38 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector References: <004301c9726c$49fd6ef0$ddf84cd0$@com> <7EDB8D022B114B9EB71E83D5EDA049F7@DaveSatellite> Message-ID: Aw, c'mon, Dave. Now you're just teasing us again. At 6000 rpm, we have 5 ms during the intake stroke....presumably the injectors are open almost full-time (i.e., during all strokes) to move 600 #/hr (about 3.3 oz/sec). Now, what sort of "thought" are you suggesting is required here? Is the 1.5 ms min open time too long to make for an idle-able amount of fuel? Benn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dahlgren" To: "Rick Yacoucci" ; "'LAND SPEED LIST'" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector > Give some thought to a minimum pulse of 1.5 ms and a 600 lb/hr injector... > Dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Yacoucci" > To: "'LAND SPEED LIST'" > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 10:09 AM > Subject: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector > > >> Hi anybody have any experience with the Moran adjustable injector? >> >> Here is what there web page says >> EFI guru Mike Moran makes it easy for EFI engines to produce 1,000 to >> 4,000 >> HP with either gasoline or methanol, with the new M.R.E. PowerTip 5 fuel >> injector. Machined from a proprietary material, coated with titanium >> nitride, these PowerTip injectors flow from 150 lb/hr up to 600 lb/hr. >> The >> PowerTip 5 was designed as the first purpose built racing fuel injector. >> The >> injectors operate linearly with pulse width as small as 1.5 milliseconds >> and >> opens with the standard 4/1 amp peak & hold ECU drivers. Plus the M.R.E. >> PowerTip injector is a direct replacement for all standard injectors and >> are >> compatible with all aftermarket E.F.I systems out of the box, no injector >> driver adapters needed. >> Order yours today, Starting at $236 each. >> http://www.moranmotorsports.com/products/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=63&p >> roducts_id=103 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as karhu at california.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From ddahlgren at snet.net Fri Jan 9 19:35:03 2009 From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 21:35:03 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector In-Reply-To: <005d01c972bc$fda3fa50$f8ebeef0$@com> References: <004301c9726c$49fd6ef0$ddf84cd0$@com> <7EDB8D022B114B9EB71E83D5EDA049F7@DaveSatellite> <005d01c972bc$fda3fa50$f8ebeef0$@com> Message-ID: For argument sake lets pick a 500 inch engine and if you want to fill me in better with what you are running it helps.. a 2000 rpm idle with sequential system has an available time of 60 ms. 1.5/60=0.025 or a 2.5% duty cycle where the opening can be counted to repeat with some success according to the ad.. this equals 60 lbs/hr or 120 hp on gas or about 50 to 60 hp on alky..unless you are running nitro you will be very very rich.. an average friction load on a BBC is 12 to 16 hp or 6 to 8 lbs/hr.. with some luck you can hope for a slow but reliable opening time for this injector and suspect the case as it only needs 4 amps and for this flow rating it has to be there is just too much area in the nozzle to flow that much and not require more than the force 4 amps offer. So if the gods of EFI are smiling the opening time is 1 ms. painfully slow... now you have 0.5/60=0.008333 or .8333 duty cycle or a tiny bit less than 20 lbs/hr probably workable but will fail the linearity test that is claimed unless the flow rate somehow catches up at the very end of the duty cycle range... again non linear.. I would not believe any claims without extensive flow testing by someone independent.. Lesson over..LOL.. Dave Oh and EFI guru might be a dangerous word as well on what with what.. personally I will consider myself a practitioner workin on some of the fastest cars and bikes in the world rather than a 'guru'..LOL... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Yacoucci" To: "'Dave Dahlgren'" ; "'LAND SPEED LIST'" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:47 PM Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Racing fuel injector >I was thinking 300 lb/hr for my setup > > "The injectors operate linearly with pulse width as small as 1.5 > milliseconds" > > The way I understand this is that they will pulse under 1.5ms but not > linearly.... > Am I wrong in that assumption ? > > Rick From neil at dbelltech.com Fri Jan 9 19:54:17 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:54:17 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Totally non LSR... but fun music! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <701D441FFD7C4104843D747703AACEDF@DBTech> Thanks, Wes-- reminds me of Stephan Grappelli and Django Reinhardt. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wester Potter Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:12 PM To: LAND SPEED LIST Subject: [Land-speed] Totally non LSR... but fun music! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsXyKV8ElkM&featur Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Sun Jan 11 10:02:37 2009 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 09:02:37 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Defiantly NON-LSR The Violinist Message-ID: <496A262D.8040605@wildblue.net> *The Violinist * This is interesting: *Violinist in the Metro--- Wash, DC * * * A man sat at a metro station in Washington DC and started to play the violin; it was a cold January morning. He played six Bach pieces for about 45 minutes. During that time, since it was rush hour, it was calculated that thousands of people went through the station, most of them on their way to work. Three minutes went by and a middle aged man noticed there was musician playing. He slowed his pace and stopped for a few seconds and then hurried up to meet his schedule. A minute later, the violinist received his first dollar tip: a woman threw the money in the till and without stopping continued to walk. A few minutes later, someone leaned against the wall to listen to him, but the man looked at his watch and started to walk again. Clearly he was late for work. The one who paid the most attention was a 3 year old boy. His mother tagged him along, hurried but the kid stopped to look at the violinist. Finally the mother pushed hard and the child continued to walk turning his head all the time. This action was repeated by several other children. All the parents, without exception, forced them to move on. In the 45 minutes the musician played, only 6 people stopped and stayed for a while. About 20 gave him money but continued to walk their normal pace. He collected $32. When he finished playing and silence took over, no one noticed it. No one applauded, nor was there any recognition. No one knew this but the violinist was Joshua Bell, one of the best musicians in the world. He played one of the most intricate pieces ever written with a violin worth 3.5 million dollars. Two days before his playing in the subway, Joshua Bell sold out at a theater in Boston and the seats average $100. This is a real story. Joshua Bell playing incognito in the metro station was organized by the Washington Post as part of a social experiment about perception, taste and priorities of people. The outlines were: in a commonplace environment at an inappropriate hour: Do we perceive beauty? Do we stop to appreciate it? Do we recognize the talent in an unexpected context? One of the possible conclusions from this experience could be: If we do not have a moment to stop and listen to one of the best musicians in the world playing the best music ever written, how many other things are we missing? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From MPittwood at compuserve.com Sun Jan 11 14:13:09 2009 From: MPittwood at compuserve.com (MPittwood at compuserve.com) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:13:09 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Books for sale Message-ID: <200901111613_MC3-2-1A64-DCA9@compuserve.com> A good friend of mine is financing his forthcoming photographic book on British Land Speed Record Breakers by selling items from his speed collection. Mostly signed books and information. I thought that those on the list from around the world might want to know about these special items so they find a home rather than in Britain. As the funds are being recycled intoa book that many may wish to see on their bookshelves I hope no one minds this advertising'. Look up the following items on e bay 110336158833 110336167109 110336169815 110336172771 110336175795 110336181147 110336185236 And in 2010 look out for a new book with many unpublished pictures of the Brits. breaking the WLSR. Malcolm UK From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Mon Jan 12 14:02:08 2009 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:02:08 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com Message-ID: <20A6C6BD-E1D5-4E4E-AC7F-AE2A40B9F6AA@nancyandjon.org> Hello, boys and girls. Bob, the guy that's doing the technical work on landracing.com, has noticed that the "...checklist to race your vehicle on the Salt..." is missing. I don't have a copy to put on the website. Do any of you have it, and, if so, would you be so kind as to send it to me so I can post it? Thanks - in advance. Jon Wennerberg Tall guy with moustache and a pair of 2 Club hats From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Mon Jan 12 14:22:39 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:22:39 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com References: <20A6C6BD-E1D5-4E4E-AC7F-AE2A40B9F6AA@nancyandjon.org> Message-ID: Jon It's under techs and faqs. Near bottom of page under hints for Bonneville. I just opened it. Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" To: "LSR List" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:02 PM Subject: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com > Hello, boys and girls. Bob, the guy that's doing the technical work on > landracing.com, has noticed that the "...checklist to race your vehicle > on the Salt..." is missing. I don't have a copy to put on the website. > Do any of you have it, and, if so, would you be so kind as to send it to > me so I can post it? Thanks - in advance. > > Jon Wennerberg > Tall guy with moustache > and a pair of 2 Club hats > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.8 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2340 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org Mon Jan 12 14:47:54 2009 From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:47:54 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com In-Reply-To: References: <20A6C6BD-E1D5-4E4E-AC7F-AE2A40B9F6AA@nancyandjon.org> Message-ID: Wahahahaha, he probably couldn't see it from behind the snowblower. -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glen Barrett Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:23 PM To: Jon Wennerberg; LSR List Subject: Re: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com Jon It's under techs and faqs. Near bottom of page under hints for Bonneville. I just opened it. Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" To: "LSR List" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:02 PM Subject: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com > Hello, boys and girls. Bob, the guy that's doing the technical work > on landracing.com, has noticed that the "...checklist to race your > vehicle on the Salt..." is missing. I don't have a copy to put on the website. > Do any of you have it, and, if so, would you be so kind as to send it > to me so I can post it? Thanks - in advance. > > Jon Wennerberg > Tall guy with moustache > and a pair of 2 Club hats > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.8 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2340 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Mon Jan 12 15:10:15 2009 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:10:15 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com In-Reply-To: References: <20A6C6BD-E1D5-4E4E-AC7F-AE2A40B9F6AA@nancyandjon.org> Message-ID: On Jan 12, 2009, at 4:47 PM, Adin, David wrote: Wahahahaha, he probably couldn't see it from behind the snowblower. Yeah, yeah, well, so what? I haven't been able to use the (big) snowthrower for a week now. The impeller (the fan that throws the snow) drives the auger (that gathers the snow) through a 90-degree gearbox -- and said gear box detonated last week. I've got a big handful of parts/broken parts. A new one is $472! Parts are on order -- 'cause we're only half-way through the winter (with 126" of snow so far). As for the missing list -- I just got off the phone with Glen, and he said he saw the list at first -- but now he can't bring it up, either. As we talked - we think we both remembered that the list was from Keith Turk, so next I'm going to try to find him and see if he's got the one we're searching for. Over and out. Jon Wennerberg Tall guy with moustache and a pair of 2 Club hats From lsrvette at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 15:50:45 2009 From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:50:45 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com In-Reply-To: References: <20A6C6BD-E1D5-4E4E-AC7F-AE2A40B9F6AA@nancyandjon.org> Message-ID: <00ca01c97508$3e3a5c10$baaf1430$@com> John/Glen If Keith can't find his copy, drop me a note. I created a copy so we could modify it to our needs. Pretty sure I kept the original. John -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Adin, David Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 4:48 PM To: Glen Barrett; Jon Wennerberg; LSR List Subject: Re: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com Wahahahaha, he probably couldn't see it from behind the snowblower. -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glen Barrett Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:23 PM To: Jon Wennerberg; LSR List Subject: Re: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com Jon It's under techs and faqs. Near bottom of page under hints for Bonneville. I just opened it. Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" To: "LSR List" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:02 PM Subject: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com > Hello, boys and girls. Bob, the guy that's doing the technical work > on landracing.com, has noticed that the "...checklist to race your > vehicle on the Salt..." is missing. I don't have a copy to put on the website. > Do any of you have it, and, if so, would you be so kind as to send it > to me so I can post it? Thanks - in advance. > > Jon Wennerberg > Tall guy with moustache > and a pair of 2 Club hats > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.8 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2340 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as lsrvette at yahoo.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From gmc6power at earthlink.net Mon Jan 12 19:50:41 2009 From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:50:41 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself Message-ID: <60508DCC58AF496E96820DEF8AB6A609@mydf7618c59bbf> ----- AIN'T IT THE TRUTH!!? Joe Smith started the day early having set his Alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6am. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA ) Was perking, he shaved with his Electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG ). He put on a Dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA ), Designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE ) And Tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA ) After cooking his breakfast in his new Electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA ) He sat down with his Calculator (MADE IN MEXICO ) To see how much he could spend today. After setting his Watch (MADE IN TAIWAN ) To the radio (MADE IN INDIA ) He got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY ) Filled it with GAS (from Saudi Arabia ) And continued his search For a good paying job. At the end Of yet another discouraging And fruitless day Checking his Computer (Made In Malaysia ), Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL ) Poured himself a glass of Wine (MADE IN FRANCE ) And turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA ), And then wondered Why he can't find A good paying job In USA Y'all gotta Keep this one circulating, please.! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- . ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ . From kturk at adelphia.net Mon Jan 12 20:11:39 2009 From: kturk at adelphia.net (KeithTurk) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:11:39 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com References: <20A6C6BD-E1D5-4E4E-AC7F-AE2A40B9F6AA@nancyandjon.org> <00ca01c97508$3e3a5c10$baaf1430$@com> Message-ID: <003301c9752c$a767ac50$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> John... send him what you've got... my junk is buried right now... Seems like I saw that yesterday... on Landracing.com Hmmm K ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Staiger" To: "'Glen Barrett'" ; "'Jon Wennerberg'" ; "'LSR List'" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com > John/Glen > > If Keith can't find his copy, drop me a note. I created a copy so we could > modify it to our needs. Pretty sure I kept the original. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Adin, David > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 4:48 PM > To: Glen Barrett; Jon Wennerberg; LSR List > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com > > Wahahahaha, he probably couldn't see it from behind the snowblower. > > -----Original Message----- > From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glen Barrett > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:23 PM > To: Jon Wennerberg; LSR List > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com > > Jon > It's under techs and faqs. Near bottom of page under hints for > Bonneville. I just opened it. > Glen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jon Wennerberg" > To: "LSR List" > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:02 PM > Subject: [Land-speed] List for landracing.com > > >> Hello, boys and girls. Bob, the guy that's doing the technical work >> on landracing.com, has noticed that the "...checklist to race your >> vehicle on the Salt..." is missing. I don't have a copy to put on the > website. >> Do any of you have it, and, if so, would you be so kind as to send it > >> to me so I can post it? Thanks - in advance. >> >> Jon Wennerberg >> Tall guy with moustache >> and a pair of 2 Club hats >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Land-speed mailing list >> >> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed >> > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 5.8 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 2340 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as lsrvette at yahoo.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as kturk at adelphia.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 12 20:47:18 2009 From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:47:18 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself In-Reply-To: <60508DCC58AF496E96820DEF8AB6A609@mydf7618c59bbf> References: <60508DCC58AF496E96820DEF8AB6A609@mydf7618c59bbf> Message-ID: JD, you're' right..! ah yes, America's 'hoo-ray for me, screw the other guy' ways have finally come home to bite it square in the ass. funny,.. I've been trying to warn people about this selfish thoughtlessness for thirty (30) or more years -all- to deaf ears. Time for hearing aids now I guess. Must be everyone forgot the basic civics/economics lesson of the need -and reason- to buy 'local' -so the guy that you bought from, can AFFORD to buy from you. I'm 'just' a dumb ass schoolbus driver but even I could figure it out... - 'Dirt Track Doug ' - Why can't the rest of the population ? ******************************************************************** > From: gmc6power at earthlink.net > To: land-speed at autox.team.net > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:50:41 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed List ] Non LSR topic but I couldn't help myself AIN'T IT THE TRUTH!!? Joe Smith started the day early having set his Alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6am. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA ) Was perking, he shaved with his Electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG ). > > He put on a Dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA ), > > Designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE ) And Tennis shoes (MADE IN MALAYSIA ) > After cooking his breakfast in his new Electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA ) > > He sat down with his Calculator (MADE IN MEXICO ) > > To see how much he could spend today. After checking his Watch (MADE IN TAIWAN ) > > To the radio (MADE IN INDIA ) > > He got in his car (MADE IN JAPAN ) Filled it with GAS (from Saudi Arabia ) > > And continued his search For a good paying job. > > At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day checking his Computer (Made In Malaysia ), > > Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL ) Poured himself a glass of Wine (MADE IN FRANCE ) And turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA ), And then wondered why he can't find a 'good paying job' in the good ol' US of A Keep this one circulating... _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail.: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_ 012009 From ddahlgren at snet.net Tue Jan 13 06:03:05 2009 From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:03:05 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself In-Reply-To: <60508DCC58AF496E96820DEF8AB6A609@mydf7618c59bbf> References: <60508DCC58AF496E96820DEF8AB6A609@mydf7618c59bbf> Message-ID: Joe Smith was making 42 and hour putting left front wheels on Buicks is the problem with medical dental optical 401 and 8 weeks vacation.. Worse his union will fight any type of automation or anything that might make the factory profitable. to make it worse Buffy amd Muffy need new designer clothes every week but want them on the cheap so look alike from Sri Lanka is just fine with them Chippy needs sports gear for all 7 varsity sports so that means they need at least 2 SUVs to haul this all around and of course Joe needs a fun car of his own to park in front of the 5000 sq. ft house and pool... so where do you think the real problem might be.. It is called greed at the employee level along with the I gotta have it all and all of it right now..sigh.. Decades ago the USA buying public has changed priorities from quality to price and generally you can not have both so the problem is from within and we are the problem.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.D. Tone" To: Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 9:50 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself > ----- > > > > > > > AIN'T IT THE TRUTH!!? > > Joe Smith started the day early having set his > Alarm clock > > (MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6am. > While his coffeepot > > (MADE IN CHINA ) > > Was perking, he shaved with his > > Electric razor > > (MADE IN HONG KONG ). > > He put on a > > Dress shirt > > (MADE IN SRI LANKA ), > > Designer jeans > > (MADE IN SINGAPORE ) > > And > > Tennis shoes > > (MADE IN KOREA ) > > After cooking his breakfast in his new > > Electric skillet > > (MADE IN INDIA ) > > He sat down with his > > Calculator > > (MADE IN MEXICO ) > > To see how much he could spend today. After setting his > > Watch > > (MADE IN TAIWAN ) > > To the radio > > (MADE IN INDIA ) > > He got in his car > > (MADE IN GERMANY ) > > Filled it with GAS > > (from Saudi Arabia ) > > And continued his search > > For a good paying job. > > At the end > > Of yet another discouraging > > And fruitless day > > Checking his > > Computer > > (Made In Malaysia ), > > Joe decided to relax for a while. > > He put on his sandals > > (MADE IN BRAZIL ) > > Poured himself a glass of > > Wine > > (MADE IN FRANCE ) > > And turned on his > > TV > > (MADE IN INDONESIA ), > > And then wondered > > Why he can't find > > A good paying job > > In USA > > Y'all gotta Keep this one circulating, please.! From saltracer at awwwsome.com Tue Jan 13 08:22:56 2009 From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:22:56 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself References: <60508DCC58AF496E96820DEF8AB6A609@mydf7618c59bbf> Message-ID: <496CB1D0.000001.05500@D3DP98F1> AMEN it that Dave! Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC -------Original Message------- From: Dave Dahlgren Date: 1/13/2009 5:03:29 AM To: J.D. Tone; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself Joe Smith was making 42 and hour putting left front wheels on Buicks is the problem with medical dental optical 401 and 8 weeks vacation.. Worse his union will fight any type of automation or anything that might make the factory profitable. to make it worse Buffy amd Muffy need new designer clothes every week but want them on the cheap so look alike from Sri Lanka is just fine with them Chippy needs sports gear for all 7 varsity sports so that means they need at least 2 SUVs to haul this all around and of course Joe needs a fun car of his own to park in front of the 5000 sq. ft house and pool... so where do you think the real problem might be.. It is called greed at the employee level along with the I gotta have it all and all of it right now..sigh.. Decades ago the USA buying public has changed priorities from quality to price and generally you can not have both so the problem is from within and we are the problem.. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_animation_butterflies_en_020908.gif] From DAW1 at comcast.net Tue Jan 13 09:07:48 2009 From: DAW1 at comcast.net (DAW1) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:07:48 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Totally non LSR... but fun music! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Incredible!! But I got distracted watching Claudia Cardinale videos { Once apon a time in the West} and just lost a hour. dw ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wester Potter" To: "LAND SPEED LIST" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Totally non LSR... but fun music! > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsXyKV8ElkM&featur > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as daw1 at comcast.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 09:26:28 2009 From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:26:28 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself In-Reply-To: <496CB1D0.000001.05500@D3DP98F1> References: <60508DCC58AF496E96820DEF8AB6A609@mydf7618c59bbf> <496CB1D0.000001.05500@D3DP98F1> Message-ID: -and I too agree Dave. IMHO, I believe God's curse on mankind is GREED for shame, for shame. I too realized what you so well illustrated years ago, when I found myself -struggling- to explain to some Dufus 'why' my -hand-crafted- product at $1895.00 was 'better' than the one he saw at WalMart last week for $249.97 The writing was on the wall: so sadly, I quit -trying- to be a -quality- custom gunmaker, and resigned myself to going back to 'work for the man' in Industry. Shame on me: little did I know in 1990 "they" were too busy exporting every job they possibly could offshore -to have any time to interview -me- for a job. Ah, I see. SOLD OUT -by greed. Corporate greed. So now, I drive schoolbus. Oh well. It's a shame though; all the talent I have, ...going to waste -thrown away by a 'people' that just don't give a shit. "HI!" to Tom -hope you're feeling better ! ;-) c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug ' ex- GM Chevrolet 'master mechanic', ex-engine builder, ex-Machinist, ex-Certified DOT Welder, ex-Certified CAD Draftsman, ex-Mechanical Engineering Technician ================================================================ > -------Original Message------- > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:22:56 -0800 > From: saltracer at awwwsome.com > To: gmc6power at earthlink.net; land-speed at autox.team.net; ddahlgren at snet.net > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself > > AMEN it that Dave! > > Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC -------Original Message------- From: Dave Dahlgren > Date: 1/13/2009 5:03:29 AM > To: J.D. Tone; land-speed at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself > > Joe Smith was making 42 and hour putting left front wheels on Buicks is the > problem with medical dental optical 401 and 8 weeks vacation.. Worse his > union will fight any type of automation or anything that might make the > factory profitable. to make it worse Buffy amd Muffy need new designer > clothes every week but want them on the cheap so look alike from Sri Lanka > is just fine with them Chippy needs sports gear for all 7 varsity sports so > that means they need at least 2 SUVs to haul this all around and of course > Joe needs a fun car of his own to park in front of the 5000 sq. ft house and > pool... so where do you think the real problem might be.. It is called greed > at the employee level along with the I gotta have it all and all of it right > now..sigh.. Decades ago the USA buying public has changed priorities from > quality to price and generally you can not have both so the problem is from > within and we are the problem. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 18:43:09 2009 From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:43:09 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] Little LSR -but eligible !!! hey Mayf look at this ! Message-ID: when was the last time you saw one this good ? eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320330890359&_t rksid=e11010.m203&_trkparms=algo%3DCRX%26its%3DI%252BS%26itu%3DSI%252BUCI%26o tn%3D4&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:MOTORS:1348 enjoy! 'Dirt Track Doug ' _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 From adin at frontier.net Tue Jan 13 18:52:03 2009 From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:52:03 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Little LSR -but eligible !!! hey Mayf look at this ! References: Message-ID: <000b01c975ea$b2f111b0$6401a8c0@ZTxp> When I sold mine. (Not the smartest thing I ever did.) If you can get it for 25K its a steal! This seems to be very original (most are hot-rodded and/or over restored) but how much fun can it be if you can't take it out and play with it? Nice find, Doug. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug ............." To: Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 6:43 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Little LSR -but eligible !!! hey Mayf look at this ! > when was the last time you saw one this good ? eBay: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320330890359&_t > rksid=e11010.m203&_trkparms=algo%3DCRX%26its%3DI%252BS%26itu%3DSI%252BUCI%26o > tn%3D4&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:MOTORS:1348 > enjoy! 'Dirt Track Doug ' > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 18:56:30 2009 From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:56:30 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] here ya go Jack : a 'Job lead' for us all In-Reply-To: <3395B091F1854613A94C9A7C8F3C4D61@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <3395B091F1854613A94C9A7C8F3C4D61@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: Jack: finally a Yob lead ! c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug ' From: v4gr at rcn.com To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com CC: ddahlgren at snet.net Subject: Fw: Funny Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:44:06 -0800 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_01200 9 [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type video/x-ms-wmv] From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com Tue Jan 13 19:27:19 2009 From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:27:19 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] here ya go Jack : a 'Job lead' for us all In-Reply-To: References: <3395B091F1854613A94C9A7C8F3C4D61@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B788095@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com> Mayf???? Mike Meierle #847 F/P/MP SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA ECTA Record Holder -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug ............. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:57 PM To: LSR Jack Costella; LSR Rich Fox; LSR Glen Barrett; LSR WesPotter; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: [Land-speed] here ya go Jack : a 'Job lead' for us all Jack: finally a Yob lead ! c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug ' From: v4gr at rcn.com To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com CC: ddahlgren at snet.net Subject: Fw: Funny Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:44:06 -0800 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_ 01200 9 [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type video/x-ms-wmv] Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From NT788 at comcast.net Tue Jan 13 20:04:59 2009 From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 03:04:59 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] here ya go Jack : a 'Job lead' for us all Message-ID: <011420090304.25237.496D565B00020100000062952216554886C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net> What does it mean? -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "MEIERLE Mike" > > Mayf???? > > Mike Meierle > #847 F/P/MP > SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA > ECTA Record Holder > > > -----Original Message----- > From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug > ............. > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:57 PM > To: LSR Jack Costella; LSR Rich Fox; LSR Glen Barrett; LSR WesPotter; > land-speed at autox.team.net > Subject: [Land-speed] here ya go Jack : a 'Job lead' for us all > > > Jack: finally a Yob lead ! > > > c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug ' > > > > > From: v4gr at rcn.com > To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com > CC: ddahlgren at snet.net > Subject: Fw: Funny > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:44:06 -0800 > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_ > 01200 > 9 > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type video/x-ms-wmv] > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From drmayf at mayfco.com Tue Jan 13 23:14:44 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:14:44 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] here ya go Jack : a 'Job lead' for us all In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B788095@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com> References: <3395B091F1854613A94C9A7C8F3C4D61@your55e5f9e3d2> <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B788095@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com> Message-ID: <496D82D4.4020804@mayfco.com> Forwarded to me by Doug because of my Sunbeam connection no doubt. Plus I have a real Tiger as well as the red race car. mayf is the nickname I have had for more than 43 years or so. mayf MEIERLE Mike wrote: >Mayf???? > >Mike Meierle >#847 F/P/MP >SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA >ECTA Record Holder > > >-----Original Message----- >From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net >[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug >............. >Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:57 PM >To: LSR Jack Costella; LSR Rich Fox; LSR Glen Barrett; LSR WesPotter; >land-speed at autox.team.net >Subject: [Land-speed] here ya go Jack : a 'Job lead' for us all > > > Jack: finally a Yob lead ! > > >c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug ' > > > > >From: v4gr at rcn.com >To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com >CC: ddahlgren at snet.net >Subject: Fw: Funny >Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:44:06 -0800 > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. >http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_ >01200 >9 > >[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type video/x-ms-wmv] >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Wed Jan 14 08:52:44 2009 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:52:44 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself In-Reply-To: References: <60508DCC58AF496E96820DEF8AB6A609@mydf7618c59bbf> Message-ID: <496E0A4C.8060507@wildblue.net> Why isn't more stuff made in the USA???? Think about this, Out of the 30 something industrial countries, the kids in only one country won't be better educated than their parents. What poor country might that be? The USA, which has about a 70% or better High School dropout rate. In the 21st Century, a HS dropout is not qualified for a minimum wage job. Bryan Doug ............. wrote: > JD, you're' right..! > > > > > > ah yes, > > America's 'hoo-ray for me, screw the other guy' ways have finally come home > to bite it square in the ass. > > > funny,.. I've been trying to warn people about this selfish thoughtlessness > for thirty (30) or more years -all- to deaf ears. Time for hearing aids > now I guess. > Must be everyone forgot the basic civics/economics lesson of the need -and > reason- to buy 'local' > -so the guy that you bought from, can AFFORD to buy from you. > I'm 'just' a dumb ass schoolbus driver but even I could figure it out... - > 'Dirt Track Doug ' > > - Why can't the rest of the population ? > > ******************************************************************** From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 14 09:16:15 2009 From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:16:15 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself In-Reply-To: <496E0A4C.8060507@wildblue.net> References: <60508DCC58AF496E96820DEF8AB6A609@mydf7618c59bbf> <496E0A4C.8060507@wildblue.net> Message-ID: Bryan,.. -absolutely! I see it every morning: You can not -you would not, believe the sheer stupidity -on all levels -and- all age groups I see every day that there's school. Hell, a lot of these kids are simply 'missing' when I arrive to pick them up. They just don't attend -regularly. And this is in very small-town RURAL America... -where you'd think there'd still be some 'core values' left... NOT Officially, 39% of the student body I drive for is considered "special needs". Can you say 'Ritilin' ? Hell the 'special need', (-in -most- cases ) is a real good spanking, ivory soap in the mouth,.. -and a good hug. But "they" (the American people thru their legislators) won't let us. All we are allowed to do -for ANY reason or mis-behavior, is "write a report" ... It's a sin; the American School System (with the 'help' of the totally blind American 'Public" ) - has let down America. BIG Time. 'The dumbing down of America' -believe it. Hell there's stops on my routes that deliver brothers & sisters to the same address -that have 3 or 4 different last names. It's COMMON. I kid you not. GOD Save America , Doug ' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:52:44 -0800 > From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net > To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com > CC: gmc6power at earthlink.net; land-speed at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself > > > Why isn't more stuff made in the USA???? > > Think about this, Out of the 30 something industrial countries, the kids in only one > country won't be better educated than their parents. What poor country might that be? > > The USA, which has about a 70% or better High School dropout rate. In the 21st Century, a HS dropout is not qualified for a minimum wage job. > > Bryan > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Doug ............. wrote: > > JD, you're' right..! ah yes, America's 'hoo-ray for me, screw the other guy' ways have finally come home to bite it square in the ass. funny,.. I've been trying to warn people about this selfish thoughtlessness for thirty (30) or more years -all- to deaf ears. Time for hearing aids now I guess. Must be everyone forgot the basic civics/economics lesson of the need -and reason- to buy 'local' -so the guy that you bought from, can AFFORD to buy from you. I'm 'just' a dumb ass schoolbus driver but even I could figure it out... - 'Dirt Track Doug ' - Why can't the rest of the population ? _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_01200 9 From gmc6power at earthlink.net Wed Jan 14 18:36:03 2009 From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:36:03 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR-- Could't help it, had to send it Message-ID: <1AB09EC7FFC647F298697CFEF2E63833@mydf7618c59bbf> Is It NBA Or NFL? 36 have been accused of spousal abuse 7 have been arrested for fraud 19 have been accused of writing bad checks 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses 3 have done time for assault 71, repeat 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges 8 have been arrested for shoplifting 21 currently are defendants in lawsuits, and 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year Can you guess which organization this is? Give up yet? . . Scroll down, Neither, it's the 435 members of the United States Congress The same group of Idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line. You gotta pass this one on! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. .atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.fre ecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterN O62"> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Get instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image002.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image003.jpg] From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 14 19:05:21 2009 From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:05:21 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR-- Could't help it, had to send it In-Reply-To: <1AB09EC7FFC647F298697CFEF2E63833@mydf7618c59bbf> References: <1AB09EC7FFC647F298697CFEF2E63833@mydf7618c59bbf> Message-ID: didn't have to look; Intuition told me it was our "leaders" does anyone feel like a lemming ? c heers, Doug ' > From: gmc6power at earthlink.net > To: land-speed at autox.team.net > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:36:03 -0800 > Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR-- Could't help it, had to send it > > Is It the NBA Or NFL? > > > > > 36 have been accused of spousal abuse > > > > > 7 have been arrested for fraud > > > > > > 19 have been accused of writing bad checks > > > > > > 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses > > > > > 3 have done time for assault > > > > 71, repeat > > 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit > > > 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges > > > 8 have been arrested for shoplifting > > > > 21 currently are defendants in lawsuits, and > > > > > 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year > > > Can you guess which organization this is? Give up yet? . . Scroll down, > Neither, it's the 435 members of the United States Congress The same group of Idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Thu Jan 15 11:35:21 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:35:21 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Passings Message-ID: <926533F6D134463E9AFC56CCE1C0B800@Glens> Jay Steel of Taylor Engines passed away last night after a long battle with throat cancer. Engine builder and racer. Glen -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.8 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2341 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From joetimney at dol.net Thu Jan 15 11:54:43 2009 From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:54:43 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Book on Weather Message-ID: <496F8673.2060807@dol.net> Patrick Hale (www.dragracingpro.com ) has a new book out on weather. John Beckett and I used Patrich's BonnevillePro program with great success from '99 thru 2001 so I bought the book before Christmas. As far as I'm concerned, Patrick has another winner. He covers all aspects of weather, with great definitions. Included is a good comparison on Barometers, more of what to stay away from. The book is written on drag racing but weather is, well, just weather!!! Definitely for the techno-geek!!! When it comes to weather, I really like my Kestral 4000 Weather Station. I own about $800 worth the weather instruments from my drag racing days but the little box gives me more info, a lot easier and has a running one month memory. Kestral has a new model, the 4250, which includes Grams of Water. Hope this helps, joe From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Thu Jan 15 12:12:59 2009 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:12:59 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but I couln't help myself In-Reply-To: <496E1135.9090004@lintech.com> References: <60508DCC58AF496E96820DEF8AB6A609@mydf7618c59bbf> <496E0A4C.8060507@wildblue.net> <496E1135.9090004@lintech.com> Message-ID: <496F8ABB.6080501@wildblue.net> Brian, and List. I'm sorry, I got it backward. You are correct, of course. The number is 30%. I think this will help explain the different numbers flying around about dropout rate. http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/Feature_Stories/U.S._high_school_dropout_rate_higher_than_thought.html Because of the political ramifications , it is hard to find believable numbers, as always. I never use Fox as a source and I rarely use the media, other that the London Times, as a source. My search got "about 1,510,000 " hits. I've been using the internet sense 1989. I normally restrict my search for facts to .EDU and/or .GOV sites to eliminate opinion and propaganda. Thank you for pointing out my error Brian, Bryan Brian Mullaney wrote: > Bryan Savage wrote: >> The USA, which has about a 70% or better High School dropout rate. In >> the 21st Century, a HS dropout >> is not qualified for a minimum wage job. >> > > Where do you get this number? The only place I can find something > recent that says 70% is at > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344190,00.html > > Which says: > > "Nationally, about 70 percent of U.S. students graduate on time with a > regular diploma and about 1.2 million students drop out annually." > > Which would mean a 30% or so dropout rate. > > > Brian From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Thu Jan 15 12:16:27 2009 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:16:27 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR-- Could't help it, had to send it In-Reply-To: <1AB09EC7FFC647F298697CFEF2E63833@mydf7618c59bbf> References: <1AB09EC7FFC647F298697CFEF2E63833@mydf7618c59bbf> Message-ID: <496F8B8B.4090008@wildblue.net> Source, Please. Bryan J.D. Tone wrote: > Is It NBA Or NFL? > > > > > 36 > have been accused of spousal abuse > > > > > 7 > have been arrested for fraud > > > > > > 19 > have been accused of writing bad checks > > > > > > 117 > have directly or indirectly > bankrupted at least 2 businesses > > > > > 3 > have done time for assault > > > > 71, > repeat > > 71 cannot > get a credit card due to bad credit > > > 14 > have been arrested on drug-related charges > > > 8 > have been arrested for shoplifting > > > > 21 > currently > are defendants in lawsuits, and > > > > > 84 > have been arrested for drunk driving > in > the last year > > > Can > you guess which organization this is? > > Give > up yet? . . Scroll down, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither, > it's the 435 members of the > United States Congress > > > The > same group of Idiots that crank out > hundreds of new laws each year > designed to keep the rest of us in line. > > You > gotta pass this one on! > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. > .atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.fre > ecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterN > O62"> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Get instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse > with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image002.jpg] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image003.jpg] > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as b.a.savage at wildblue.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From ddahlgren at snet.net Thu Jan 15 12:53:51 2009 From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:53:51 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Book on Weather In-Reply-To: <496F8673.2060807@dol.net> References: <496F8673.2060807@dol.net> Message-ID: <92AADF9D9C6F4CE7AD9ABAD4F44398DD@DaveSatellite> Going from 0 to 100% humdity there is +- 2% correction.. I can promise you after 30 years on a dyno tuning engines if I dial in +-2% fuel there only a way too far to the right of the decimal point change in HP... i dare you to find Holley jets better than 1%..LOL Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Timney" To: "LAND SPEED LIST" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 1:54 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Book on Weather > Patrick Hale (www.dragracingpro.com ) has > a new book out on weather. John Beckett and I used Patrich's > BonnevillePro program with great success from '99 thru 2001 so I bought > the book before Christmas. As far as I'm concerned, Patrick has another > winner. He covers all aspects of weather, with great definitions. > Included is a good comparison on Barometers, more of what to stay away > from. The book is written on drag racing but weather is, well, just > weather!!! Definitely for the techno-geek!!! > > When it comes to weather, I really like my Kestral 4000 Weather Station. > I own about $800 worth the weather instruments from my drag racing days > but the little box gives me more info, a lot easier and has a running > one month memory. Kestral has a new model, the 4250, which includes > Grams of Water. > > Hope this helps, > joe From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Jan 15 13:13:44 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:13:44 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Book on Weather In-Reply-To: <92AADF9D9C6F4CE7AD9ABAD4F44398DD@DaveSatellite> References: <496F8673.2060807@dol.net> <92AADF9D9C6F4CE7AD9ABAD4F44398DD@DaveSatellite> Message-ID: <496F98F8.2050009@mayfco.com> Hmmm...I don't mess with humidity because I do not go fast enough to worry about the last erg of energy from the motor. Either I am too smart to worry about it or too dumb. I suspect the latter. So I need some tutoring here. Lemme see, one would need to determine the grains of water in the air at the temp and pressure where the motor is. Then because water vapor displaces air then the number of grains of air would be displaced from any particular volume of air. So with a lessened amount of air and hence less oxygen to burn with the fuel then hp would be down. So how much would that actually be? I don't have the tools to figure this our. Ie how much humidity is present at B'ville on a typical 95 degree day at a baro pressure of 12.5 psia. Then how many grains of water would that be? I could work it out from there... No my efi doesn't take into account water vapor automatically but I could change the fuel table a smidge to account for it. Anybody on the list actually tune accounting for water vapor when on the salt? Just curious... mayf Dave Dahlgren wrote: > Going from 0 to 100% humdity there is +- 2% correction.. I can promise > you after 30 years on a dyno tuning engines if I dial in +-2% fuel > there only a way too far to the right of the decimal point change in > HP... i dare you to find Holley jets better than 1%..LOL > Dave > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Timney" > To: "LAND SPEED LIST" > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 1:54 PM > Subject: [Land-speed] Book on Weather > > >> Patrick Hale (www.dragracingpro.com ) has >> a new book out on weather. John Beckett and I used Patrich's >> BonnevillePro program with great success from '99 thru 2001 so I bought >> the book before Christmas. As far as I'm concerned, Patrick has another >> winner. He covers all aspects of weather, with great definitions. >> Included is a good comparison on Barometers, more of what to stay away >> from. The book is written on drag racing but weather is, well, just >> weather!!! Definitely for the techno-geek!!! >> >> When it comes to weather, I really like my Kestral 4000 Weather Station. >> I own about $800 worth the weather instruments from my drag racing days >> but the little box gives me more info, a lot easier and has a running >> one month memory. Kestral has a new model, the 4250, which includes >> Grams of Water. >> >> Hope this helps, >> joe > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From David.Parks at lfr.com Thu Jan 15 13:24:26 2009 From: David.Parks at lfr.com (Parks, David) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:24:26 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR-- Could't help it, had to send it In-Reply-To: <496F8B8B.4090008@wildblue.net> References: <1AB09EC7FFC647F298697CFEF2E63833@mydf7618c59bbf> <496F8B8B.4090008@wildblue.net> Message-ID: <2250EAF246F5BD4F944363A212DD352701971E0714@ca17exmbs1.arcadis-us.com> http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the named addressee(s) and may contain information that is legally privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone or by return e-mail and delete this message, along with any attachments, from your computer. Thank you. From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Thu Jan 15 13:56:03 2009 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:56:03 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR-- Could't help it, had to send it In-Reply-To: <2250EAF246F5BD4F944363A212DD352701971E0714@ca17exmbs1.arcadis-us.com> References: <1AB09EC7FFC647F298697CFEF2E63833@mydf7618c59bbf> <496F8B8B.4090008@wildblue.net> <2250EAF246F5BD4F944363A212DD352701971E0714@ca17exmbs1.arcadis-us.com> Message-ID: <496FA2E3.3090203@wildblue.net> Thank you David. As I suspected. It seems to me that 99.9% of all negative political comments are lies. A friend of mine says they are all *%$$^ and just deletes them before reading. I'm going to adopt his policy. Thanks again David, Bryan Parks, David wrote: > http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp From jolylance at earthlink.net Thu Jan 15 14:36:46 2009 From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:36:46 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR, LIGHT BULB ADVISORY Message-ID: <001601c97759$5e05c180$2101a8c0@WinXP> This is an alert---as you may know Congress has passed a law banning incandescent light bulbs and mandating the use of fluorescents beginning in 2012. I have a lot of flood lamps and track lighting bulbs of various sizes and types on dimmer switches. Some manufacturers are starting to make dimmable fluorescent bulbs but they are very expensive compared to incandescent. So I decided to stock up on incandescent in the sizes and types that I use--but the problem is that some manufacturers are already phasing them out or have stopped manufacturing them. So I had to pay a premium price for some types. As 2012 approaches the supply / price problem will get worse. At the risk of stimulating demand and further price increases, some of you may want to buy a few incandescents soon if you have applications like mine. On the internet "1000Bulbs.com" has low prices. As Will Rogers said "whenever congress pass a law it becomes a joke, and whenever congress makes a joke it becomes a law". So we can expect them to pass additional laws to mandate disposal fees because of the Mercury contained in CFL bulbs which will then require a welfare program to subsidize the purchase of the even more expensive CFLs. You don't have to worry if you are growing Marijuana indoors--those types of incandescents are exempt. Lance From NT788 at comcast.net Thu Jan 15 17:56:27 2009 From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:56:27 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR, LIGHT BULB ADVISORY Message-ID: <011620090056.28804.496FDB3B00085633000070842214756402C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net> Remember "Maybe they are doing it for us!" -------------- Original message -------------- From: "joseph lance" > This is an alert---as you may know Congress has passed a law banning > incandescent light bulbs and mandating the use of fluorescents beginning in > 2012. > > I have a lot of flood lamps and track lighting bulbs of various sizes and > types on dimmer switches. Some manufacturers are starting to make dimmable > fluorescent bulbs but they are very expensive compared to incandescent. > > So I decided to stock up on incandescent in the sizes and types that I > use--but the problem is that some manufacturers are already phasing them out > or have stopped manufacturing them. So I had to pay a premium price for some > types. As 2012 approaches the supply / price problem will get worse. > > At the risk of stimulating demand and further price increases, some of you may > want to buy a few incandescents soon if you have applications like mine. On > the internet "1000Bulbs.com" has low prices. > > As Will Rogers said "whenever congress pass a law it becomes a joke, and > whenever congress makes a joke it becomes a law". So we can expect them to > pass additional laws to mandate disposal fees because of the Mercury contained > in CFL bulbs which will then require a welfare program to subsidize the > purchase of the even more expensive CFLs. > > You don't have to worry if you are growing Marijuana indoors--those types of > incandescents are exempt. > > Lance > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From saltfever at comcast.net Thu Jan 15 18:41:55 2009 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:41:55 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Book on Weather Message-ID: If you go to Patrick's web page you cannot buy the book from his web page. www.dragracingpro.com He links to another site that bought his software business last year. That site does NOT list his new book. The easiest way is to use PayPal. Otherwise , snail mail him a check to the address listed on his web page. This information confirmed by phone with Patrick. -Elon From saltfever at comcast.net Thu Jan 15 19:34:29 2009 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:34:29 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Could't help it, had to send it Message-ID: Bryan thanks for your posting. 99.9% . . . I have never seen a true statement yet! I use to spend the time to check validity and send it back to the email source, hoping they would get a clue. I have given up. Naivety and ignorance are infinite. I just wish ''consideration for others'' would thwart posting that rubbish here. -Elon PS: it only took 2 or 3 years for the redundant, incessant, outmoded jokes to subside. Original message: snip . . . It seems to me that 99.9% of all negative political comments are lies. A friend of mine says they are all *%$$^ and just deletes them before reading. I'm going to adopt his policy. Thanks again David, Bryan From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Fri Jan 16 05:21:58 2009 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 07:21:58 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR, LIGHT BULB ADVISORY In-Reply-To: <001601c97759$5e05c180$2101a8c0@WinXP> References: <001601c97759$5e05c180$2101a8c0@WinXP> Message-ID: <0368B7AF-1D9B-4A76-9CC0-E9E106CAC46F@nancyandjon.org> On Jan 15, 2009, at 4:36 PM, joseph lance wrote: This is an alert---as you may know Congress has passed a law banning incandescent light bulbs and mandating the use of fluorescents beginning in 2012. I have a lot of flood lamps and track lighting bulbs of various sizes and types on dimmer switches. Some manufacturers are starting to make dimmable fluorescent bulbs but they are very expensive compared to incandescent. Lance Lance: Before you rule out the dimmable fluorescents -- give one or two a try. I've got one - and the cost for the bulb itself is about the same as for a non-dimmable fluorescent. No need to give up your need for dimming on a "Costs too much" basis -- the dimmer you've already bought (which wasn't all that cheap, I expect) will work with the new type bulb. I've converted our entire house to fluorescent lamps (save one or two specialty bulbs that aren't yet available in fluorescents. Spotlights, floodlights, indoors and outdoors -- at least two dozen in all. I admit there are differences between them and the old-style incandescents. Fluorescents take a few seconds to reach full brightness -- up to a minute for units that are outdoors in the sub- zero cold (it's -13F as I type this). And, on the other hand, incandescent bulbs use four or seven (or whatever) times more energy to give the same amount of light. The manufacturers claim that fluorescents last far longer than an incandescent of similar light output - while using less energy over the life of the bulb, and the increased life at fewer cents per hour of operation are where the user (you or me) gets his investment returned. I haven't had many fluorescents "burn out" yet so can't really compare, but I've been anal enough to write the in-service date on the new bulbs so that when they do go bad -- I'll know how long they lasted,. Don't knee-jerk against the fluorescent bulbs until you've tried them - and then you won't find nearly as much reason to do so as you state in your message. Jon Wennerberg Tall guy with moustache and a pair of 2 Club hats From jdincau at qnet.com Fri Jan 16 05:58:51 2009 From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 04:58:51 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] trailer ramps Message-ID: <03669E5F83C84C78B69BC9E5FA25CAE0@denpc> Hi all, I am about to build some ramps for an open trailer. They need to be ten feet long for a 2,000 lb max car. Any suggestions for light weight construction? Jim in Palmdale From 23.weldon at comcast.net Fri Jan 16 09:19:51 2009 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:19:51 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] trailer ramps References: <03669E5F83C84C78B69BC9E5FA25CAE0@denpc> Message-ID: <001401c977f6$449e8770$6401a8c0@S> Jim -- I built a set of ramps out of exterior plywood the way you'd build a boat except closed on both sides to get the best beam strength. They are curved just right , thin in the ends and thick in the middle, screwed and glued together. This does three things for you. It makes a perfect beam shape for strength(like a crossection of an airplane wing), it positions the underside of the car to properly clear the edge of the trailer so you don't have to jack the tongue up real high when loading and it makes for smaller and simpler transition pieces at each end (I used the simple aftermarket aluminum extension kits designed to go on the ends of 2x12's.) Mine are 8 ft. long. Note that the belly pan won't be right over the back edge of the trailer to drag on it as the car comes to perfect parallel level with the trailer bed because tthe curve in the ramps is over "air' not the back edge of the trailer. If you're going to go longer than 8 ft (which you probably won't need to do if you make them my way) you'll have to scarf extensions on at one end, preferably the end that touches the ground. (or hunt up some longer 10 ft plywood which a few building suppliers can get) This scarfing is common boat building practice for plywood construction and works well with an 8:1 taper at the joint, good epoxy adhesive and lots of clamps. You cut the scarfs with a belt sander and watch the spacing between the plywood layers to get them right while sanding. Ed Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Dincau" To: "land Speed List" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:58 AM Subject: [Land-speed] trailer ramps > Hi all, > I am about to build some ramps for an open trailer. They need to be ten > feet long for a 2,000 lb max car. Any suggestions for light weight > construction? > Jim in Palmdale > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as 23.weldon at comcast.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From gmc6power at earthlink.net Fri Jan 16 10:16:27 2009 From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:16:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Land-speed] trailer ramps Message-ID: <22046253.1232126187914.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Jim I found the best thing to use was metal scaffoldng "planks". They are 8" to 12" wide and different lengths up to 10'. Some have slip resistant coating or holes which help in keeping them light weight. I trimmed an angle where they met the ground with a cut off wheel and welded an steel angle at the trailer for attachment. I had straps under the trailer for storage but they could be placed in many places on or under the trailer. My coupe and roadster both weighed over 3000# so I'm sure they will handle what you need without a lot of construction on your part. > >Hi all, > I am about to build some ramps for an open trailer. They need to be ten >feet long for a 2,000 lb max car. Any suggestions for light weight >construction? >Jim in Palmdale >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as gmc6power at earthlink.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From lsr_man at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 11:15:37 2009 From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:15:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Land-speed] trailer ramps In-Reply-To: <22046253.1232126187914.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <473244.24793.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim, With ten foot ramps, I highly recommend some support about half way to keep them from sagging too much and maybe breaking or bending on you. Make yourself a pair of prism-shaped wheel chocks at the same time. Make them about a foot high. When you load and unload, put them under the center of the ramps to act as supports. When you determine the location, weld or bolt a small cross-brace at that point to keep the supports from trying to roll over. Once you are ready to unhitch the trailer, put them between the wheels to function as chocks. DickJ In East Texas --- On Fri, 1/16/09, James Tone wrote: From: James Tone Subject: Re: [Land-speed] trailer ramps To: "Jim Dincau" , "land Speed List" Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 11:16 AM Jim I found the best thing to use was metal scaffoldng "planks". They are 8" to 12" wide and different lengths up to 10'. Some have slip resistant coating or holes which help in keeping them light weight. I trimmed an angle where they met the ground with a cut off wheel and welded an steel angle at the trailer for attachment. I had straps under the trailer for storage but they could be placed in many places on or under the trailer. My coupe and roadster both weighed over 3000# so I'm sure they will handle what you need without a lot of construction on your part. > >Hi all, > I am about to build some ramps for an open trailer. They need to be ten >feet long for a 2,000 lb max car. Any suggestions for light weight >construction? >Jim in Palmdale >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as gmc6power at earthlink.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as lsr_man at yahoo.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From wester6935 at comcast.net Fri Jan 16 18:04:34 2009 From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:04:34 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR question on headlights Message-ID: <3D0CA698-A6A5-4E72-A2E0-7505E046AE62@comcast.net> List, I have a 97 Chev truck with the daylight running headlights. They are getting somewhat dim and I want to replace them. I'd like to use halogen bulbs but I wonder if the headlight units are designed to handle the heat they create. The Sylvania web site makes recommendations about the high beams but not the low beams. Anyone know what the situation is on those? Wes From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com Sat Jan 17 13:17:43 2009 From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:17:43 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR question on headlights In-Reply-To: <3D0CA698-A6A5-4E72-A2E0-7505E046AE62@comcast.net> References: <3D0CA698-A6A5-4E72-A2E0-7505E046AE62@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B788C43@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com> I replaved the white DRL on my truck with the Amber long life units, more modern.... -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wester Potter Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:05 PM To: LAND SPEED LIST Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR question on headlights List, I have a 97 Chev truck with the daylight running headlights. They are getting somewhat dim and I want to replace them. I'd like to use halogen bulbs but I wonder if the headlight units are designed to handle the heat they create. The Sylvania web site makes recommendations about the high beams but not the low beams. Anyone know what the situation is on those? Wes Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From saltfevr at q.com Sat Jan 17 22:32:21 2009 From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:32:21 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Supercharged Jag XF Does 225mph at Bonneville | Autopia from Wired.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dale; Thanks for the link. Not sure if that was Mike Cook and the Rice Bros. doing the timing. Heres the team websire and cool video link http://www.rocketsportsracing.com Click on story then Bville video!Tom ShannonMagna, Utah From: d.pulju at pahrump.comTo: ;Subject: Supercharged Jag XF Does 225mph at Bonneville | Autopia from Wired.comDate: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:39:52 -0800 http://blog.wired.com:80/cars/2009/01/supercharged-ja.html nice car dale From wester6935 at comcast.net Sun Jan 18 06:20:20 2009 From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 06:20:20 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: How about this one... References: <895abd770803291016i6396db9cpe3f0dde8eb19bc1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67342E2F-9D57-40CC-8743-9E94E760D346@comcast.net> Can Barrett-Jackson top this one for outrageous? Begin forwarded message: > From: "john stahmann" > Date: March 29, 2008 11:16:48 AM MDT > To: "Wester Potter" > Subject: How about this one... > > http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm? > LOT_ID=SC0508-65922 > > Wow! From drmayf at mayfco.com Sun Jan 18 10:24:29 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:24:29 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: How about this one... In-Reply-To: <67342E2F-9D57-40CC-8743-9E94E760D346@comcast.net> References: <895abd770803291016i6396db9cpe3f0dde8eb19bc1d@mail.gmail.com> <67342E2F-9D57-40CC-8743-9E94E760D346@comcast.net> Message-ID: <497365CD.1000607@mayfco.com> Definitely one of a kind! I wonder what the reserve value is for the auction. mayf Wester Potter wrote: >Can Barrett-Jackson top this one for outrageous? > >Begin forwarded message: > > > >>From: "john stahmann" >>Date: March 29, 2008 11:16:48 AM MDT >>To: "Wester Potter" >>Subject: How about this one... >> >>http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm? >>LOT_ID=SC0508-65922 >> >>Wow! >> >> >_______________________________________________ From drmayf at mayfco.com Tue Jan 20 17:11:46 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:11:46 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List Message-ID: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com> Have I dropped off the earth? Received zip, nada, zero from the list.. Somebody shoot me a reply iff you get this through the list.. mayf From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 20 17:20:00 2009 From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:20:00 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List In-Reply-To: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com> References: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com> Message-ID: I got it Mayf. Same story here ; "no news -is not necessarily... good news" what'sup widat? Ever'body watching reruns of Obama's Inaugural -mebbe ? c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug ' > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:11:46 -0800 > From: drmayf at mayfco.com > To: land-speed at autox.team.net > Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List > > Have I dropped off the earth? Received zip, nada, zero from the list.. > Somebody shoot me a reply iff you get this through the list.. > > mayf > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Tue Jan 20 17:23:41 2009 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:23:41 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List In-Reply-To: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com> References: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <79A72339-E5E2-49B3-8E36-2E2A906CF9D4@nancyandjon.org> On Jan 20, 2009, at 7:11 PM, drmayf wrote: Have I dropped off the earth? Received zip, nada, zero from the list.. Somebody shoot me a reply iff you get this through the list.. mayf We're here, we're here. Lotsa snow in Skandia, Michigan - about 2 feet since midday Saturday. The season total is now at 149.5" Makes you jealous, hey? Jon Wennerberg Tall guy with moustache and a pair of 2 Club hats From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 20 17:32:14 2009 From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:32:14 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List In-Reply-To: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com> References: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com> Message-ID: I got it Mayf. Same story here ; "no news -is not necessarily... good news" what'sup widat? Ever'body watching reruns of Obama's Inaugural -mebbe ? c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug ' > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:11:46 -0800 > From: drmayf at mayfco.com > To: land-speed at autox.team.net > Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List > > Have I dropped off the earth? Received zip, nada, zero from the list.. > Somebody shoot me a reply iff you get this through the list.. > > mayf > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_01200 9 From drmayf at mayfco.com Tue Jan 20 17:35:39 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:35:39 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List In-Reply-To: References: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <49766DDB.1000400@mayfco.com> Ok, so I got a few email messages now List is definitely working.. mayf Doug ............. wrote: > > > I got it Mayf. Same story here ; > > "no news -/is not necessarily.../ good news" > > what'sup widat? > > Ever'body watching reruns of Obama's Inaugural -mebbe ? > > c heers, '*Dirt Track Doug* ' > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:11:46 -0800 > > From: drmayf at mayfco.com > > To: land-speed at autox.team.net > > Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List > > > > Have I dropped off the earth? Received zip, nada, zero from the list.. > > Somebody shoot me a reply iff you get this through the list.. > > > > mayf > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Land-speed mailing list > > > > You are subscribed as boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com > > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. > From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Tue Jan 20 18:14:39 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:14:39 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List References: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com> <49766DDB.1000400@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <4D79319EF3E74EE29F63C98D2D847693@Glens> Works great in Utah Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" To: "Doug ............." Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Quiet List > Ok, so I got a few email messages now List is definitely working.. > > mayf > Doug ............. wrote: > >> >> >> I got it Mayf. Same story here ; >> "no news -/is not necessarily.../ good news" >> >> what'sup widat? >> Ever'body watching reruns of Obama's Inaugural -mebbe ? >> >> c heers, '*Dirt Track Doug* ' >> >> > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:11:46 -0800 >> > From: drmayf at mayfco.com >> > To: land-speed at autox.team.net >> > Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List >> > >> > Have I dropped off the earth? Received zip, nada, zero from the list.. >> > Somebody shoot me a reply iff you get this through the list.. >> > >> > mayf >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > >> > Land-speed mailing list >> > >> > You are subscribed as boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com >> > >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. >> > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.9 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2343 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From Rick at RBMotorsports.com Tue Jan 20 19:46:38 2009 From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:46:38 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List References: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com> <49766DDB.1000400@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <000e01c97b72$7c9caa60$6501a8c0@Rick> works good in snowy Michigan Some of us are out in the shop working. So much to do so little time...oh woe is me :-d ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" To: "Doug ............." Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Quiet List > Ok, so I got a few email messages now List is definitely working.. > > mayf > Doug ............. wrote: > >> >> >> I got it Mayf. Same story here ; >> "no news -/is not necessarily.../ good news" >> >> what'sup widat? >> Ever'body watching reruns of Obama's Inaugural -mebbe ? >> >> c heers, '*Dirt Track Doug* ' >> >> > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:11:46 -0800 >> > From: drmayf at mayfco.com >> > To: land-speed at autox.team.net >> > Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List >> > >> > Have I dropped off the earth? Received zip, nada, zero from the list.. >> > Somebody shoot me a reply iff you get this through the list.. >> > >> > mayf >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > >> > Land-speed mailing list >> > >> > You are subscribed as boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com >> > >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. >> > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as rickbyrnes at comcast.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From kturk at adelphia.net Tue Jan 20 20:56:35 2009 From: kturk at adelphia.net (KeithTurk) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:56:35 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] Quiet List References: <49766842.3070207@mayfco.com><49766DDB.1000400@mayfco.com> <4D79319EF3E74EE29F63C98D2D847693@Glens> Message-ID: <022101c97b7c$46745500$6400a8c0@valued28a6af5c> I've been busy running the show at the rock shop till business picks up again... Life is Good still... just busy... K From drmayf at mayfco.com Wed Jan 21 12:00:44 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:00:44 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... Message-ID: <497770DC.20809@mayfco.com> I know others are working very hard to gather funds through donations for the Save the Salt program. HAs anyone considered just gathering the aluminum cans from the meets in August, Sept and October? Is this already being done? Seems like we could have a few smaller bins in the pits which announce that the cans go to a good purpose. Cans could then be taken to a recycler for weighing and crushing and whatever else happens to used cans... How about if each pit had a specific can bag? And they dumped the can bag daily or however often into the collection bin(s). Make it a prt of the instructions for entry into these events. Just a thought mayf From drmayf at mayfco.com Wed Jan 21 12:08:35 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:08:35 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] SpeedWeek... Message-ID: <497772B3.4010205@mayfco.com> I know the dates are August 8 - 14. But what is the first day I can drag the trailer and car out onto the salt and into a pit, even if I cannot unload it at that time? mayf From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Wed Jan 21 12:18:09 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:18:09 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... References: <497770DC.20809@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <1FAD9518E39F4B8F8B79BEF2FBBEF44D@Glens> As I understand it the cans don't work well when melted down and used for casting plaques. Best to contact Bo Burkdoll and ask him. He is the USFRA president and listed on the their web site. Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" To: "LSR" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... >I know others are working very hard to gather funds through donations for >the Save the Salt program. HAs anyone considered just gathering the >aluminum cans from the meets in August, Sept and October? Is this already >being done? Seems like we could have a few smaller bins in the pits which >announce that the cans go to a good purpose. Cans could then be taken to a >recycler for weighing and crushing and whatever else happens to used >cans... How about if each pit had a specific can bag? And they dumped the >can bag daily or however often into the collection bin(s). Make it a prt >of the instructions for entry into these events. > Just a thought > > mayf > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.9 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2344 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Wed Jan 21 12:18:40 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:18:40 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] SpeedWeek... References: <497772B3.4010205@mayfco.com> Message-ID: Will be announced at a later date. ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" To: "LSR" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:08 PM Subject: [Land-speed] SpeedWeek... >I know the dates are August 8 - 14. But what is the first day I can drag > the trailer and car out onto the salt and into a pit, even if I cannot > unload it at that time? > > mayf > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.9 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2344 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From donpearsall at comcast.net Wed Jan 21 12:33:08 2009 From: donpearsall at comcast.net (Don Pearsall) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:33:08 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... In-Reply-To: <497770DC.20809@mayfco.com> References: <497770DC.20809@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <00c201c97bff$1b1ea580$515bf080$@net> I have always thought that BNI, Save the Salt, or SCTA should include a Save the Salt fee included with the entry fee. The fee would then pay for a full-time salt washing station somewhere near the flats exit. Last year I saw a setup that was intended to do that, but when I drove by many times, it was not operational. Doing it this way would ensure that vehicles would leave the salt right there, and do not drive home carrying 100 pounds of salt. Excess funds go to STS. I would not mind paying $20-30 extra on the entry fee for this. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:01 AM To: LSR Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... I know others are working very hard to gather funds through donations for the Save the Salt program. HAs anyone considered just gathering the aluminum cans from the meets in August, Sept and October? Is this already being done? Seems like we could have a few smaller bins in the pits which announce that the cans go to a good purpose. Cans could then be taken to a recycler for weighing and crushing and whatever else happens to used cans... How about if each pit had a specific can bag? And they dumped the can bag daily or however often into the collection bin(s). Make it a prt of the instructions for entry into these events. Just a thought mayf Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as donpearsall at comcast.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From gary_ellen at msn.com Wed Jan 21 12:35:56 2009 From: gary_ellen at msn.com (Ellen Wilkinson) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:35:56 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... In-Reply-To: <497770DC.20809@mayfco.com> <1FAD9518E39F4B8F8B79BEF2FBBEF44D@Glens> References: <497770DC.20809@mayfco.com> <1FAD9518E39F4B8F8B79BEF2FBBEF44D@Glens> Message-ID: Jim Burkdoll is the president of USFRA, Bo is his son. Gary W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Barrett" > As I understand it the cans don't work well when melted down and used for > casting plaques. Best to contact Bo Burkdoll and ask him. He is the USFRA > president and listed on the their web site. > Glen From drmayf at mayfco.com Wed Jan 21 12:44:19 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:44:19 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... In-Reply-To: <1FAD9518E39F4B8F8B79BEF2FBBEF44D@Glens> References: <497770DC.20809@mayfco.com> <1FAD9518E39F4B8F8B79BEF2FBBEF44D@Glens> Message-ID: <49777B13.9050706@mayfco.com> Sorry wasn't thinking of giving the cans to them. Simply taking them to the can recycler and getting cash to give to StS. Or don't they take just money? Or is this one of those situations where only one person/agency can be making donations this way? Stepping on some one's turf? mayf Glen Barrett wrote: > As I understand it the cans don't work well when melted down and used > for casting plaques. Best to contact Bo Burkdoll and ask him. He is > the USFRA president and listed on the their web site. > Glen > ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" > To: "LSR" > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:00 PM > Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... > > >> I know others are working very hard to gather funds through donations >> for the Save the Salt program. HAs anyone considered just gathering >> the aluminum cans from the meets in August, Sept and October? Is this >> already being done? Seems like we could have a few smaller bins in >> the pits which announce that the cans go to a good purpose. Cans >> could then be taken to a recycler for weighing and crushing and >> whatever else happens to used cans... How about if each pit had a >> specific can bag? And they dumped the can bag daily or however often >> into the collection bin(s). Make it a prt of the instructions for >> entry into these events. >> Just a thought >> >> mayf >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Land-speed mailing list >> >> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From drmayf at mayfco.com Wed Jan 21 12:48:00 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:48:00 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... In-Reply-To: <00c201c97bff$1b1ea580$515bf080$@net> References: <497770DC.20809@mayfco.com> <00c201c97bff$1b1ea580$515bf080$@net> Message-ID: <49777BF0.7040100@mayfco.com> Another great idea. But why not just have the extra fee or say 10 bucks per entry? Or 20? Heck, make it voluntary on the entry form, just like when we pay our income taxes..contribute a buck or so to the political campaigns. mayf Don Pearsall wrote: >I have always thought that BNI, Save the Salt, or SCTA should include a Save >the Salt fee included with the entry fee. The fee would then pay for a >full-time salt washing station somewhere near the flats exit. Last year I >saw a setup that was intended to do that, but when I drove by many times, it >was not operational. Doing it this way would ensure that vehicles would >leave the salt right there, and do not drive home carrying 100 pounds of >salt. Excess funds go to STS. > >I would not mind paying $20-30 extra on the entry fee for this. > > >Don Pearsall > >-----Original Message----- >From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net >[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf >Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:01 AM >To: LSR >Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... > >I know others are working very hard to gather funds through donations >for the Save the Salt program. HAs anyone considered just gathering the >aluminum cans from the meets in August, Sept and October? Is this >already being done? Seems like we could have a few smaller bins in the >pits which announce that the cans go to a good purpose. Cans could then >be taken to a recycler for weighing and crushing and whatever else >happens to used cans... How about if each pit had a specific can bag? >And they dumped the can bag daily or however often into the collection >bin(s). Make it a prt of the instructions for entry into these events. > >Just a thought > >mayf >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as donpearsall at comcast.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From saltrat at pahrump.com Wed Jan 21 13:05:38 2009 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:05:38 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... In-Reply-To: <49777B13.9050706@mayfco.com> References: <497770DC.20809@mayfco.com> <1FAD9518E39F4B8F8B79BEF2FBBEF44D@Glens> <49777B13.9050706@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <20090121200548.F31EC187650@autox.team.net> I think that your idea for recycling cans is a really good idea. If it doesn't go forward, I'll save my cans for the recycler and donate those funds. Such as they might be. Skip At 11:44 AM 1/21/2009, drmayf wrote: >Sorry wasn't thinking of giving the cans to them. Simply taking them >to the can recycler and getting cash to give to StS. Or don't they >take just money? Or is this one of those situations where only one >person/agency can be making donations this way? Stepping on some one's turf? > >mayf >Glen Barrett wrote: > >>As I understand it the cans don't work well when melted down and >>used for casting plaques. Best to contact Bo Burkdoll and ask him. >>He is the USFRA president and listed on the their web site. >>Glen >>----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" >>To: "LSR" >>Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:00 PM >>Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... >> >> >>>I know others are working very hard to gather funds through >>>donations for the Save the Salt program. HAs anyone considered >>>just gathering the aluminum cans from the meets in August, Sept >>>and October? Is this already being done? Seems like we could have >>>a few smaller bins in the pits which announce that the cans go to >>>a good purpose. Cans could then be taken to a recycler for >>>weighing and crushing and whatever else happens to used cans... >>>How about if each pit had a specific can bag? And they dumped the >>>can bag daily or however often into the collection bin(s). Make >>>it a prt of the instructions for >>>entry into these events. >>>Just a thought >>> >>>mayf >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>>Land-speed mailing list >>> >>>You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com >>> >>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as saltrat at pahrump.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From v4gr at rcn.com Wed Jan 21 13:18:26 2009 From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:18:26 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... References: <497770DC.20809@mayfco.com><1FAD9518E39F4B8F8B79BEF2FBBEF44D@Glens> <49777B13.9050706@mayfco.com> <20090121200548.F31EC187650@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <0525B856F5384222ACEE63E7DF5594EF@your55e5f9e3d2> I agree with Mayf and Skip. There are an awful lot of cans empted during these meets. A sign and collection point at end of road would catch the spectators and racers. I bet it would turn out to be a nice sum. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Higginbotham" To: ; "Glen Barrett" Cc: "LSR" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... >I think that your idea for recycling cans is a really good idea. If it >doesn't go forward, I'll save my cans for the recycler and donate those >funds. Such as they might be. > > Skip From v4gr at rcn.com Wed Jan 21 13:59:55 2009 From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:59:55 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Saving the Salt and funds for that... Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Fox" To: ; "Glen Barrett" ; "Skip Higginbotham" Cc: "LSR" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... >I agree with Mayf and Skip. There are an awful lot of cans empted during >these meets. A sign and collection point at end of road would catch the >spectators and racers. I bet it would turn out to be a nice sum. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Skip Higginbotham" > To: ; "Glen Barrett" > Cc: "LSR" > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... > > >>I think that your idea for recycling cans is a really good idea. If it >>doesn't go forward, I'll save my cans for the recycler and donate those >>funds. Such as they might be. >> >> Skip From blindasabatgraphixs at hotmail.com Wed Jan 21 14:47:05 2009 From: blindasabatgraphixs at hotmail.com (P Halsey) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:47:05 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I work the Western Washington Fair in Puyallup, WA. The fair has a Fiesta Day the last Sunday before it closes. Beer sales in the beer garden area amounted to 5,500 cans, in 4 hours no less, and since I provided and removed the dumpsters I know that amounts to 3 full dumpsters. Now, knowing how many people attend Speedweek in just the first three days, there would be a lot of cans. Pat in Tacoma > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:18:26 -0800 > From: "Rich Fox" > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... > To: , "Glen Barrett" , > "Skip Higginbotham" > Cc: LSR > Message-ID: <0525B856F5384222ACEE63E7DF5594EF at your55e5f9e3d2> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > I agree with Mayf and Skip. There are an awful lot of cans empted during > these meets. A sign and collection point at end of road would catch the > spectators and racers. I bet it would turn out to be a nice sum. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_01200 9 From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Wed Jan 21 17:00:35 2009 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:00:35 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] SpeedWeek... In-Reply-To: <497772B3.4010205@mayfco.com> References: <497772B3.4010205@mayfco.com> Message-ID: On Jan 21, 2009, at 2:08 PM, drmayf wrote: I know the dates are August 8 - 14. But what is the first day I can drag the trailer and car out onto the salt and into a pit, even if I cannot unload it at that time? mayf __ Good question,Mayf. Last year the first day for trailers was Inspection day - much to the dismay of many racers that are used to getting set up the day or so before Inspection. With that date-change idea having been relegated to "tried it" status and SpeedWeek returning to the Friday inspection date -- I wouldn't be surprised if trailers can be taken out there a day or so before inspection. No promises -- check with someone that knows. Of course -- I didn't get online all day, so by now maybe someone has already responded. Jon Wennerberg Tall guy with moustache and a pair of 2 Club hats From yesford at clear.net.nz Wed Jan 21 17:02:54 2009 From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:02:54 +1300 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... References: Message-ID: <43A7E34AA6FD48BBA59631CFE2061029@ChrisHarrisPC> All initiatives that would raise money for 'Save the Salt' should be supported. Can collecting, fees levy, two easily implemented examples. Dealing with problems, right from an individual approach seems to have a familiar ring these days. Chris H......................NZed. From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Wed Jan 21 17:13:29 2009 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:13:29 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... In-Reply-To: <43A7E34AA6FD48BBA59631CFE2061029@ChrisHarrisPC> References: <43A7E34AA6FD48BBA59631CFE2061029@ChrisHarrisPC> Message-ID: <8E60AFC7-049E-43F5-93A5-DAC221AB4459@nancyandjon.org> On Jan 21, 2009, at 7:02 PM, Chris Harris wrote: All initiatives that would raise money for 'Save the Salt' should be supported. Can collecting, fees levy, two easily implemented examples. Dealing with problems, right from an individual approach seems to have a familiar ring these days. Chris H......................NZed. _______________________________________________ I have no idea how much aluminum cans are worth at the recycler. I expect there's some value -- else why would folks take 'em back and suffer the indignities of drippy and smelly cans? Here in Michigan we pay (and get back upon return) a 10-cent per can recycling fee -- that's why I don't know what they're worth on the open market. And - No, I can't bring the out-of-state cans back here to get the big bucks (okay, the dimes) for StS -- there are rules preventing that, and even the bar codes on the cans are different -- the machines won't take 'em. Jon Wennerberg Tall guy with moustache and a pair of 2 Club hats From Savethesaltflats at aol.com Wed Jan 21 18:20:12 2009 From: Savethesaltflats at aol.com (Savethesaltflats at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:20:12 EST Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... Message-ID: Dear Group: So everyone can learn from our mistakes, okay? There a better way...but our experience was: Boy Scout Troop 96 planned ahead and took the advice of SpeedWeek officials to place over 50 properly Labeled & Special Purpose (round holes in top of for aluminum cans only) Collection Containers with plastic liners at strategic locations (see grey container to the right of outhouse in picture below). We even had a roll-off strategically placed on the salt with cooperation of everyone, including security. Scouts got in free and all the cooperation of everyone was outstanding with early preparation, so it was announced at every opportunity of the Boy Scout Aluminum Can Collection Project: _http://www.savethesaltflats.com/page5.html_ (http://www.savethesaltflats.com/page5.html) (bottom of page you can see these photos): In conclusion, we ended up with dirty garbage mixed in with a few cans in the special purpose aluminum can collection containers. lol The roll-off ended up with wild car parts, including a roll of carpet + regular garbage. The taller Boy Scout is 6'5" so you can see how much effort it took to overlook the signs saying "Please, Aluminum Cans Only" lol We discovered at least three participant/spectator groups who collect aluminum cans yearly. lol Dumpsters sizes weren't available, nor as easy to move as a roll-off for the nearest recycle facility was SLC & Ogden. lol Dare you to guess what the out of pocket expenses were? lol The Singletons In a message dated 1/21/2009 12:09:43 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, drmayf at mayfco.com writes: I know others are working very hard to gather funds through donations for the Save the Salt program. HAs anyone considered just gathering the aluminum cans from the meets in August, Sept and October? Is this already being done? Seems like we could have a few smaller bins in the pits which announce that the cans go to a good purpose. Cans could then be taken to a recycler for weighing and crushing and whatever else happens to used cans... How about if each pit had a specific can bag? And they dumped the can bag daily or however often into the collection bin(s). Make it a prt of the instructions for entry into these events. Just a thought mayf **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) From saltrat at pahrump.com Thu Jan 22 09:29:27 2009 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:29:27 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Saving the Salt and funds for that... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090122162941.BF7E31878B7@autox.team.net> Thank you, Singletons for your effort! Now....what can "everyone learn" from your experience? Don't collect cans? Racers and spectators don't care? People weren't aware of the project in spite of all you did? Save the Salt isn't worth the effort? People didn't realize that it was for SOS? Announced where? Did Ron announce it every hour or so? Did Glen announce it? I never heard it announced. SOS booth didn't say a word about it when we were there. What to do differently next time? Quit? I noticed in your response that your are laughing after each of your comments......I don't think that it is very funny. Skip (I'm still going to collect my cans at the salt......and still trying to run BGS effectively) At 05:20 PM 1/21/2009, Savethesaltflats at aol.com wrote: >Dear Group: > >So everyone can learn from our mistakes, okay? There a better >way...but our experience was: > >Boy Scout Troop 96 planned ahead and took the advice of SpeedWeek >officials to place over 50 properly Labeled & Special Purpose (round >holes in top of for aluminum cans only) Collection Containers with >plastic liners at strategic locations (see grey container to the >right of outhouse in picture below). > >We even had a roll-off strategically placed on the salt with >cooperation of everyone, including security. > >Scouts got in free and all the cooperation of everyone was >outstanding with early preparation, so it was announced at every >opportunity of the Boy Scout Aluminum Can Collection >Project: >http://www.savethesaltflats.com/page5.html >(bottom of page you can see these photos): > >[] > > >[] > >[] > >In conclusion, we ended up with dirty garbage mixed in with a few >cans in the special purpose aluminum can collection containers. lol > >The roll-off ended up with wild car parts, including a roll of >carpet + regular garbage. The taller Boy Scout is 6'5" so you can >see how much effort it took to overlook the signs saying "Please, >Aluminum Cans Only" lol > >We discovered at least three participant/spectator groups who >collect aluminum cans yearly. lol > >Dumpsters sizes weren't available, nor as easy to move as a roll-off >for the nearest recycle facility was SLC & Ogden. lol > >Dare you to guess what the out of pocket expenses were? lol > >The Singletons From wester6935 at comcast.net Thu Jan 22 23:11:01 2009 From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:11:01 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD References: Message-ID: <01C196C2-6EE8-4AEB-A364-C76EECE20734@comcast.net> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:44 PM > Subject: Fwd: MODEL T-FORD > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sent: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 2:03 pm > Subject: FW: MODEL T-FORD > > > > Subject: FW: MODEL T-FORD > > > > > > > MODEL T-FORD > > Neat to see those guys making the old wooden wheels, by hand > mostly. Video > here of Henry riding the 15 millionth Model T off the production > line. The > places that car had to (and could) go... > > Enjoy the film. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4KrIMZpwCY > > > > > > > > > > > > ExchangeDefender Message Security: Check Authenticity > > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! From SCowle at mentorcollege.edu Fri Jan 23 06:31:24 2009 From: SCowle at mentorcollege.edu (Scott Cowle) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:31:24 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Piston problem Message-ID: <4979805C0200003800009751@gw.mentorcollege.edu> Hello everyone. I usually write this site with questions that seem obvious to most of you I guess,my technical knowledge of engines is limited, but I have a curious situation with my big block mopar. It is a 500cid stroker motor with a procharger supercharger and I have consistently burnt up pistons I guess due to too much boost and too little fuel and too much timing. But this time I noticed that while I only hurt two pistons ,all of the pistons showed the same characteristics of carbon buildup. The half of the piston closest to the sparkplug has what I would call a normal amount of carbon on it but the half furthest from the plug has none.It does not matter how much fuel I give the motor the results are the same. This suggests to me that the flame is getting snuffed out as it goes across the piston .Is this what is probably happening? I know I have to reduce the boost from the supercharger-I'm getting 15lbs of boost on a 9:1 compression engine and this will be taken care of but I just wanted to know what was happening in the engine. I would appreciate any opinions on this . Scott ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This communication may contain confidential or privileged proprietary material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, or distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, or authorized to receive the information from the recipient, please contact the sender by email and delete all copies of this message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- <<>> From saltrat at pahrump.com Fri Jan 23 09:35:53 2009 From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:35:53 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Piston problem In-Reply-To: <4979805C0200003800009751@gw.mentorcollege.edu> References: <4979805C0200003800009751@gw.mentorcollege.edu> Message-ID: <20090123163558.D365618767D@autox.team.net> Scott, It would be nice to know what your fuel mixture and timing are. 9:1 and 15lbs shouldn't be too much. If the mixture is 11:1 or just a little leaner, your problem is likely too much timing (or poor fuel). Are you burning the same pistons each time? Is it a hemi? What is your inlet temp?????? I run a BBC with 8.5:1 compression, 30 degrees advance and 20 lbs boost. (and really good gas 120 octane).....no burned pistons (yet). I am now adding an intercooler. Skip At 05:31 AM 1/23/2009, Scott Cowle wrote: >Hello everyone. I usually write this site with questions that seem obvious to >most of you I guess,my technical knowledge of engines is limited, but I have a >curious situation with my big block mopar. It is a 500cid stroker motor with a >procharger supercharger and I have consistently burnt up pistons I guess due >to too much boost and too little fuel and too much timing. But this time I >noticed that while I only hurt two pistons ,all of the pistons showed the same >characteristics of carbon buildup. The half of the piston closest to the >sparkplug has what I would call a normal amount of carbon on it but the half >furthest from the plug has none.It does not matter how much fuel I give the >motor the results are the same. This suggests to me that the flame is getting >snuffed out as it goes across the piston .Is this what is probably happening? >I know I have to reduce the boost from the supercharger-I'm getting 15lbs of >boost on a 9:1 compression engine and this will be taken care of but I just >wanted to know what was happening in the engine. I would appreciate any >opinions on this . Scott > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >This communication may contain confidential or privileged >proprietary material for the sole use of the intended recipient. >Any review, use, or distribution or disclosure by others is >strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, or >authorized to receive the information from the recipient, please >contact the sender by email and delete all copies of this message. >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ><<>> >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as saltrat at pahrump.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From sparky.2211 at cox.net Fri Jan 23 10:26:08 2009 From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 9:26:08 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Piston problem In-Reply-To: <4979805C0200003800009751@gw.mentorcollege.edu> Message-ID: <20090123122608.LG10E.208099.imail@fed1rmwml34> Scott, Are you EFI, suck thru or blow thru? ---- From yesford at clear.net.nz Fri Jan 23 19:20:09 2009 From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:20:09 +1300 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD References: <01C196C2-6EE8-4AEB-A364-C76EECE20734@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7D73F3F21B90457BA0E0996069F9B695@ChrisHarrisPC> >> Subject: FW: MODEL T-FORD The Model T and internet, though vastly diverse, would be 2 of the greatest inventions of the 20th century, especially considering how both broadened people's horizon's in their own way. Chris H........................NZed. From neil at dbelltech.com Sat Jan 24 09:12:22 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:12:22 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD In-Reply-To: <7D73F3F21B90457BA0E0996069F9B695@ChrisHarrisPC> References: <01C196C2-6EE8-4AEB-A364-C76EECE20734@comcast.net> <7D73F3F21B90457BA0E0996069F9B695@ChrisHarrisPC> Message-ID: <89103C751872426587AC2CA5C9A83DAB@DBTech> Chris; Add to that the invention of the vacuum tube by Lee DeForest and the transistor by Brattain, Bardeen, & Schokley. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chris Harris Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 7:20 PM To: Wester Potter; LAND SPEED LIST Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD >> Subject: FW: MODEL T-FORD The Model T and internet, though vastly diverse, would be 2 of the greatest inventions of the 20th century, especially considering how both broadened people's horizon's in their own way. Chris H........................NZed. Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From jolylance at earthlink.net Sat Jan 24 09:38:00 2009 From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:38:00 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD References: <01C196C2-6EE8-4AEB-A364-C76EECE20734@comcast.net><7D73F3F21B90457BA0E0996069F9B695@ChrisHarrisPC> <89103C751872426587AC2CA5C9A83DAB@DBTech> Message-ID: <000301c97e42$2523bc10$2101a8c0@WinXP> Don't forget the ubiquitous laser, invented by Townes, Gould, Maiman, and some guys at Westinghouse R&D Lance ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'Chris Harris'" ; "'Wester Potter'" ; "'LAND SPEED LIST'" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD > Chris; > > Add to that the invention of the vacuum tube by Lee DeForest and the > transistor by Brattain, Bardeen, & Schokley. > > Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ From b.a.savage at wildblue.net Sat Jan 24 11:24:28 2009 From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:24:28 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD In-Reply-To: <000301c97e42$2523bc10$2101a8c0@WinXP> References: <01C196C2-6EE8-4AEB-A364-C76EECE20734@comcast.net><7D73F3F21B90457BA0E0996069F9B695@ChrisHarrisPC> <89103C751872426587AC2CA5C9A83DAB@DBTech> <000301c97e42$2523bc10$2101a8c0@WinXP> Message-ID: <497B5CDC.4000208@wildblue.net> You guy's (Chris,Neil & Lance) got me thinking again.. In my lifetime, 71 years, an enormous amount of amazing and important discoveries have been made. Both weapons of mass destruction, which had a significant impact on my life, are an example. The Engineering advances have been at least as important and are almost endless. Bryan joseph lance wrote: > Don't forget the ubiquitous laser, invented by Townes, Gould, Maiman, > and some guys at Westinghouse R&D > > Lance > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "'Chris Harris'" ; "'Wester Potter'" > ; "'LAND SPEED LIST'" > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD > > >> Chris; >> >> Add to that the invention of the vacuum tube by Lee DeForest and the >> transistor by Brattain, Bardeen, & Schokley. >> >> Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as b.a.savage at wildblue.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From saltfever at comcast.net Sat Jan 24 16:42:40 2009 From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:42:40 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Piston Problem Message-ID: <96D193635C4B4799B724FE4D42DEA7D4@dim8100> Is the bare area under the exhaust valve? If so, it may be clean because the carbon is burned off that area. I agree with Skip that 15psi is not too much if fuel and advance are appropriate. A suggestion would be to start a thread on Landracing.com so you could post magnified pics of CLEAN plugs after a WOT pull. Also, installing and O2 sensor and data record would be helpful. -Elon From: "Scott Cowle" (snip . . . ) The half of the piston closest to the sparkplug has what I would call a normal amount of carbon on it but the half furthest from the plug has none. It does not matter how much fuel I give the motor the results are the same. This suggests to me that the flame is getting snuffed out as it goes across the piston . From ddahlgren at snet.net Sat Jan 24 16:48:40 2009 From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:48:40 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Piston Problem In-Reply-To: <96D193635C4B4799B724FE4D42DEA7D4@dim8100> References: <96D193635C4B4799B724FE4D42DEA7D4@dim8100> Message-ID: <43BB89F8F37147548B4F45517C5B4169@DaveSatellite> how about if you gave it less..lol are you using a lambda meter to get even the slightest clue how rich or lean you might be?? If not get with it... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elon" To: "land-speed submit" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 6:42 PM Subject: [Land-speed] Piston Problem > Is the bare area under the exhaust valve? If so, it may be clean because > the carbon is burned off that area. I agree with Skip that 15psi is not > too > much if fuel and advance are appropriate. A suggestion would be to start > a > thread on Landracing.com so you could post magnified pics of CLEAN plugs > after a WOT pull. Also, installing and O2 sensor and data record would be > helpful. -Elon > > > > From: "Scott Cowle" > > (snip . . . ) The half of the piston closest to the sparkplug has what I > would call a normal amount of carbon on it but the half furthest from the > plug has none. It does not matter how much fuel I give the motor the > results > are the same. This suggests to me that the flame is getting snuffed out as > it goes across the piston . From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org Mon Jan 26 07:07:28 2009 From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:07:28 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD In-Reply-To: <497B5CDC.4000208@wildblue.net> References: <01C196C2-6EE8-4AEB-A364-C76EECE20734@comcast.net><7D73F3F21B90457BA0E0996069F9B695@ChrisHarrisPC><89103C751872426587AC2CA5C9A83DAB@DBTech><000301c97e42$2523bc10$2101a8c0@WinXP> <497B5CDC.4000208@wildblue.net> Message-ID: Odd, no one mentions refrigeration. Imagine, warm beer. -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Savage Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:24 AM To: joseph lance Cc: 'LAND SPEED LIST'; Wester at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD You guy's (Chris,Neil & Lance) got me thinking again.. In my lifetime, 71 years, an enormous amount of amazing and important discoveries have been made. Both weapons of mass destruction, which had a significant impact on my life, are an example. The Engineering advances have been at least as important and are almost endless. Bryan joseph lance wrote: > Don't forget the ubiquitous laser, invented by Townes, Gould, Maiman, > and some guys at Westinghouse R&D > > Lance > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "'Chris Harris'" ; "'Wester Potter'" > ; "'LAND SPEED LIST'" > > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fwd: MODEL T-FORD > > >> Chris; >> >> Add to that the invention of the vacuum tube by Lee DeForest and the >> transistor by Brattain, Bardeen, & Schokley. >> >> Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as b.a.savage at wildblue.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Mon Jan 26 08:25:25 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:25:25 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Eric Rickman Message-ID: <0201A88EB35947F3B6C092A1A9EB70E6@Glens> A pioneer of the sport of hot rodding Eric Rickman passed away on Saturday. Eric was the photographer for Hot Rod Magazine for over 40 years. His photos from the dry lakes, drag strips and Bonneville helped many kids become racers. Knowing Rick was a pleasure as were his many stories. RIP and God Speed Eric Rickman Glen Barrett -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.9 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2346 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From ifixmgs at cox.net Tue Jan 27 03:42:51 2009 From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 5:42:51 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Eric Rickman In-Reply-To: <0201A88EB35947F3B6C092A1A9EB70E6@Glens> Message-ID: <20090127054251.8FNQ2.52699.imail@eastrmwml39> So long E Rick Mann.you had a way with the lens. ---- Glen Barrett wrote: > A pioneer of the sport of hot rodding Eric Rickman passed away on Saturday. > Eric was the photographer for Hot Rod Magazine for over 40 years. His photos > from the dry lakes, drag strips and Bonneville helped many kids become racers. > Knowing Rick was a pleasure as were his many stories. > > RIP and God Speed Eric Rickman > > Glen Barrett > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 5.9 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 2346 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as ifixmgs at cox.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org Tue Jan 27 12:31:55 2009 From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:31:55 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] hot news? Message-ID: or old shoes? http://www.freiburgersjunkyard.com/blog/Breaking-News-Freiburger-Going-B ack-to-Hot-Rod-Magazine.html From drmayf at mayfco.com Tue Jan 27 13:06:24 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:06:24 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] hot news? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497F6940.1040300@mayfco.com> Dave, thanks for the info! I may have been the last person on earth who didn't know already, lol. I am gld to see him return. He had good name recognition everywhere. mayf Adin, David wrote: >or old shoes? > >http://www.freiburgersjunkyard.com/blog/Breaking-News-Freiburger-Going-B >ack-to-Hot-Rod-Magazine.html >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org Tue Jan 27 13:09:40 2009 From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:09:40 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] hot news? In-Reply-To: <497F6940.1040300@mayfco.com> References: <497F6940.1040300@mayfco.com> Message-ID: Well, second to last. Wes sent me that great photo of Kinnan sleeping @ Bonneville . . . Hilarious! -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:06 PM To: Adin, David Cc: LAND SPEED LIST Subject: Re: [Land-speed] hot news? Dave, thanks for the info! I may have been the last person on earth who didn't know already, lol. I am gld to see him return. He had good name recognition everywhere. mayf Adin, David wrote: >or old shoes? > >http://www.freiburgersjunkyard.com/blog/Breaking-News-Freiburger-Going- >B >ack-to-Hot-Rod-Magazine.html >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Land-speed mailing list > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From 23.weldon at comcast.net Wed Jan 28 22:26:42 2009 From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:26:42 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Cool LSR support vehicle project References: <497F6940.1040300@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <005601c981d2$2f46bc90$6401a8c0@S> http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2009/01/22/nasas-chevy-streamliner Neat street rod project with cool prototype history. Got a 37 chevy that was rear ended? Or just a cowl and front sheet metal? Was there one of these sitting at Bodie? Backhalf it with a teardrop trailerlike body. A big opening door in the back for shade for spectating and camping activities (no one will really know if the original had that). Push/tow car? Accomodations for the "Bend" at Speedweek? Drive the restorers nuts? Personalized license plate with the letters "NACA"? Is it really lost? Or the first car put into orbit? Ed Weldon From ecpurinton at wildblue.net Wed Jan 28 22:44:55 2009 From: ecpurinton at wildblue.net (Ed Purinton) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:44:55 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Cool LSR support vehicle project In-Reply-To: <005601c981d2$2f46bc90$6401a8c0@S> References: <497F6940.1040300@mayfco.com> <005601c981d2$2f46bc90$6401a8c0@S> Message-ID: First car to make a pass at the Maxton Monster Mile? Ed Purinton On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Ed Weldon <23.weldon at comcast.net> wrote: > http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2009/01/22/nasas-chevy-streamliner > Neat street rod project with cool prototype history. Got a 37 chevy that > was rear ended? Or just a cowl and front sheet metal? Was there one of > these sitting at Bodie? > Backhalf it with a teardrop trailerlike body. A big opening door in the > back for shade for spectating and camping activities (no one will really > know if the original had that). > Push/tow car? Accomodations for the "Bend" at Speedweek? Drive the > restorers nuts? Personalized license plate with the letters "NACA"? > Is it really lost? Or the first car put into orbit? > Ed Weldon > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as ecpurinton at wildblue.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From BWANA343 at aol.com Thu Jan 29 07:50:17 2009 From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:50:17 EST Subject: [Land-speed] Cool LSR support vehicle project Message-ID: In a message dated 1/29/2009 12:27:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 23.weldon at comcast.net writes: http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2009/01/22/nasas-chevy-streamliner Neat street rod project with cool prototype history. _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_T87_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_T87) ^ This car ^, discussed on this list awhile ago, was existent about the same time. In production for a few years, and had that neat little Hemi engine. It seems like the Aero rear concept was more visually acceptable then, but the front had to retain that carriage-like appearance that was popular into the 50s. BOB W **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) From karhu at california.com Thu Jan 29 11:42:58 2009 From: karhu at california.com (Benn) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:42:58 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Message-ID: <0525C9CC3E5847B887D839ADD8EC4CA6@BennsDesktop> Looking to get a set of ratchet box-end wrenches. It would seem that besides a fine-tooth ratchet, one would want the smallest possible head diameter (the thinnest I've seen are about 3/16" total wall thickness including the moving socket and stationary outer wall). Some of the cheaper sheetmetal-sandwich types have horrendously large heads. I also want units that are reversible, so that they can have the fixed angled offset. I'm not hot on flex-head types, which always seem to move when you don't want them to. And just to make it tougher, I probably can't rationalize a $100+ Snap-On set. Recommendations? Benn From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Thu Jan 29 12:17:20 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:17:20 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches References: <0525C9CC3E5847B887D839ADD8EC4CA6@BennsDesktop> Message-ID: SEARS comes to mind. GB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benn" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:42 AM Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > Looking to get a set of ratchet box-end wrenches. It would seem that > besides > a fine-tooth ratchet, one would want the smallest possible head diameter > (the > thinnest I've seen are about 3/16" total wall thickness including the > moving > socket and stationary outer wall). Some of the cheaper > sheetmetal-sandwich > types have horrendously large heads. I also want units that are > reversible, > so that they can have the fixed angled offset. I'm not hot on flex-head > types, which always seem to move when you don't want them to. And just to > make it tougher, I probably can't rationalize a $100+ Snap-On set. > Recommendations? > Benn > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From ed at vetteracing.com Thu Jan 29 14:10:23 2009 From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:10:23 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA Banquet Message-ID: 2 tickets for sale. Due to unforseen circumstances, I am unable to attend the banquet Sat. If anyone needs tickets, Bill "Sparky" Smith will take them over for me. See him, or send me a PM and I will give you Sparky's cell number. Thanks all, Ed Van Scoy #128 B/GT Corvette SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Jan 29 14:39:29 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:39:29 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches In-Reply-To: References: <0525C9CC3E5847B887D839ADD8EC4CA6@BennsDesktop> Message-ID: <49822211.90807@mayfco.com> Yep bought a metric and sae set for less than 100 total. 5/1 trhough 3/4 for the sae and do not remember th emetric but equivalent. They were not craftsman however but something like gear wrench. Seem to work ok. mayf Glen Barrett wrote: > SEARS comes to mind. > GB > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benn" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:42 AM > Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > >> Looking to get a set of ratchet box-end wrenches. It would seem that >> besides >> a fine-tooth ratchet, one would want the smallest possible head >> diameter (the >> thinnest I've seen are about 3/16" total wall thickness including the >> moving >> socket and stationary outer wall). Some of the cheaper >> sheetmetal-sandwich >> types have horrendously large heads. I also want units that are >> reversible, >> so that they can have the fixed angled offset. I'm not hot on flex-head >> types, which always seem to move when you don't want them to. And >> just to >> make it tougher, I probably can't rationalize a $100+ Snap-On set. >> Recommendations? >> Benn >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Land-speed mailing list >> >> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com Thu Jan 29 14:48:32 2009 From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:48:32 -0600 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20ACEE445@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com> The issue I have with the starter set I bought is the box ends are too large to fit bolts in places where they would be most useful. The second issue is the rachet mechanisms are too flimsy to break loose a stubborn bolt or nut without breaking the mechanism (10MM wrench is busted) necessitating a regular wrench, making 2 tools I'm fishing for on my back under the truck. IMHO, not worth the trouble, will be available at the next garage sale... Mike M. ----- Original Message ----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net To: Glen Barrett Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net Sent: Thu Jan 29 15:39:29 2009 Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Yep bought a metric and sae set for less than 100 total. 5/1 trhough 3/4 for the sae and do not remember th emetric but equivalent. They were not craftsman however but something like gear wrench. Seem to work ok. mayf Glen Barrett wrote: > SEARS comes to mind. > GB > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benn" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:42 AM > Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > >> Looking to get a set of ratchet box-end wrenches. It would seem that >> besides >> a fine-tooth ratchet, one would want the smallest possible head >> diameter (the >> thinnest I've seen are about 3/16" total wall thickness including the >> moving >> socket and stationary outer wall). Some of the cheaper >> sheetmetal-sandwich >> types have horrendously large heads. I also want units that are >> reversible, >> so that they can have the fixed angled offset. I'm not hot on flex-head >> types, which always seem to move when you don't want them to. And >> just to >> make it tougher, I probably can't rationalize a $100+ Snap-On set. >> Recommendations? >> Benn >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Land-speed mailing list >> >> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From dlodom at charter.net Thu Jan 29 14:55:39 2009 From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:55:39 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches References: <0525C9CC3E5847B887D839ADD8EC4CA6@BennsDesktop> <49822211.90807@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <00ce01c9825c$5393ff60$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA> I have a set of Gear Wrench from Sears. Last Christmas I was given a set of Pittsburg gear wrenches from Harbor Freight. They look like they could have been made in the same factory. I love them and use them every chance I get and have not broken one yet. Don't remember what I paid for the Sears ones but you could probably look it up on line. Doug in big ditch enjoying the sunshine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" To: "Glen Barrett" Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > Yep bought a metric and sae set for less than 100 total. 5/1 trhough 3/4 > for the sae and do not remember th emetric but equivalent. They were not > craftsman however but something like gear wrench. Seem to work ok. > > mayf > Glen Barrett wrote: > >> SEARS comes to mind. >> GB >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benn" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:42 AM >> Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches >> >> >>> Looking to get a set of ratchet box-end wrenches. It would seem that >>> besides >>> a fine-tooth ratchet, one would want the smallest possible head diameter >>> (the >>> thinnest I've seen are about 3/16" total wall thickness including the >>> moving >>> socket and stationary outer wall). Some of the cheaper >>> sheetmetal-sandwich >>> types have horrendously large heads. I also want units that are >>> reversible, >>> so that they can have the fixed angled offset. I'm not hot on flex-head >>> types, which always seem to move when you don't want them to. And just >>> to >>> make it tougher, I probably can't rationalize a $100+ Snap-On set. >>> Recommendations? >>> Benn From BWANA343 at aol.com Thu Jan 29 15:12:06 2009 From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:12:06 EST Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Message-ID: In a message dated 1/29/2009 4:39:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, drmayf at mayfco.com writes: one would want the smallest possible head >> diameter (the >> thinnest I've seen are about 3/16" total wall thickness including the >> moving How come nobody mentioned the ever popular Mousechet wrenches ? Smaller than Ratchet.... Come on...anybody ? **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) From race427 at aol.com Thu Jan 29 16:56:56 2009 From: race427 at aol.com (race427 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:56:56 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches In-Reply-To: <0525C9CC3E5847B887D839ADD8EC4CA6@BennsDesktop> References: <0525C9CC3E5847B887D839ADD8EC4CA6@BennsDesktop> Message-ID: <8CB508466C25591-10C4-AB0@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> Hi Benn, B B B Have you looked into Matco Tools? B B They are a little less $$ than Snap On. B B B Tony G You are subscribed as race427 at aol.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From neil at dbelltech.com Thu Jan 29 17:44:10 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:44:10 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches In-Reply-To: <0525C9CC3E5847B887D839ADD8EC4CA6@BennsDesktop> References: <0525C9CC3E5847B887D839ADD8EC4CA6@BennsDesktop> Message-ID: <0F258FA6E45B45F3A5BA11E9B58E4C74@DBTech> Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting box on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Benn Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:43 AM To: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Looking to get a set of ratchet box-end wrenches. It would seem that besides a fine-tooth ratchet, one would want the smallest possible head diameter (the thinnest I've seen are about 3/16" total wall thickness including the moving socket and stationary outer wall). Some of the cheaper sheetmetal-sandwich types have horrendously large heads. I also want units that are reversible, so that they can have the fixed angled offset. I'm not hot on flex-head types, which always seem to move when you don't want them to. And just to make it tougher, I probably can't rationalize a $100+ Snap-On set. Recommendations? Benn Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From dlodom at charter.net Thu Jan 29 18:23:34 2009 From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:23:34 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches References: <0525C9CC3E5847B887D839ADD8EC4CA6@BennsDesktop> <8CB508466C25591-10C4-AB0@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00fb01c98279$5f4ec020$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA> Just for giggles I went to the sears website. They have the 8 pc. 5/16 to 3/4 on sale for $59.99 on line now. Thats about $7.50 per wrench. Don't think you can get a much better price than that. Doug in big ditch ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > Hi Benn, > > > > B B B Have you looked into Matco Tools? B B They are a little less $$ > than > Snap On. > > > > > B B B Tony G From ed at vetteracing.com Thu Jan 29 19:09:43 2009 From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:09:43 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Message-ID: Neil, Righty-tighty Lefty-loosey 0-) Ed V -----Original Message----- From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 05:44 PM To: ''Benn'', land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting box on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Benn Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:43 AM To: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Looking to get a set of ratchet box-end wrenches. It would seem that besides a fine-tooth ratchet, one would want the smallest possible head diameter (the thinnest I've seen are about 3/16" total wall thickness including the moving socket and stationary outer wall). Some of the cheaper sheetmetal-sandwich types have horrendously large heads. I also want units that are reversible, so that they can have the fixed angled offset. I'm not hot on flex-head types, which always seem to move when you don't want them to. And just to make it tougher, I probably can't rationalize a $100+ Snap-On set. Recommendations? Benn Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From ed at vetteracing.com Thu Jan 29 19:19:41 2009 From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:19:41 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Message-ID: Doug, I have a set of Craftsman offsets, they are OK but I am pretty sure they are imports. They just don't have the quality and feel of a good tool. I have a set of the first GearWrench's that came out and I like them and they have held up with daily use for 15 or so years. I think they are imports also, but are noticably better quality. Ed V -----Original Message----- From: Doug Odom [mailto:dlodom at charter.net] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 06:23 PM To: karhu at california.com, land-speed at autox.team.net, race427 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Just for giggles I went to the sears website. They have the 8 pc. 5/16 to 3/4 on sale for $59.99 on line now. Thats about $7.50 per wrench. Don't think you can get a much better price than that. Doug in big ditch From neil at dbelltech.com Thu Jan 29 19:45:52 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:45:52 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ed; True but which side of the wrench is "righty"? Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ _____ From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:10 PM To: neil at dbelltech.com; 'Benn'; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Neil, Righty-tighty Lefty-loosey 0-) Ed V -----Original Message----- From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 05:44 PM To: ''Benn'', land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting box on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Benn Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:43 AM To: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Looking to get a set of ratchet box-end wrenches. It would seem that besides a fine-tooth ratchet, one would want the smallest possible head diameter (the thinnest I've seen are about 3/16" total wall thickness including the moving socket and stationary outer wall). Some of the cheaper sheetmetal-sandwich types have horrendously large heads. I also want units that are reversible, so that they can have the fixed angled offset. I'm not hot on flex-head types, which always seem to move when you don't want them to. And just to make it tougher, I probably can't rationalize a $100+ Snap-On set. Recommendations? Benn Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From ed at vetteracing.com Thu Jan 29 20:41:42 2009 From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 03:41:42 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Message-ID: Come on Neil, with your background it should be obvious!! I will give you "Mayf's Answer"........ The opposite of lefty! Ed V v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }Ed; True but which side of the wrench is ?righty?? Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:10 PM To:neil at dbelltech.com; 'Benn'; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Neil, Righty-tighty Lefty-loosey 0-) Ed V -----Original Message----- From:neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 05:44 PM To: ''Benn'', land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting box on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- From jolylance at earthlink.net Thu Jan 29 20:43:12 2009 From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:43:12 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR OLD CAR AND TRUCK PHOTOS Message-ID: <001001c9828c$e09ce220$2101a8c0@WinXP> A motorhead can get lost for hours in this website. My favorites include Studebaker Hawks (had two of them), pre WWII Buick Centurys, and the 1949 Buick Roadmaster Sedanette (no matter how it handles!!) Lance www.oldcarandtruckpictures.com From neil at dbelltech.com Thu Jan 29 20:48:16 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:48:16 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Why didn't I think of that, Ed? Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ _____ From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:42 PM To: neil at dbelltech.com; 'Ed Van Scoy'; 'Benn'; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Come on Neil, with your background it should be obvious!! I will give you "Mayf's Answer"........ The opposite of lefty! Ed V Ed; True but which side of the wrench is ?righty?? Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ _____ From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:10 PM To: neil at dbelltech.com; 'Benn'; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Neil, Righty-tighty Lefty-loosey 0-) Ed V -----Original Message----- From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 05:44 PM To: ''Benn'', land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting box on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- From ed at vetteracing.com Thu Jan 29 21:07:17 2009 From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:07:17 +0000 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Message-ID: Too much "formal education" ;-) Ed -----Original Message----- From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 08:48 PM To: ''Ed Van Scoy'', ''Benn'', land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }Why didn?t I think of that, Ed? Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:42 PM To:neil at dbelltech.com; 'Ed Van Scoy'; 'Benn'; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Come on Neil, with your background it should be obvious!! I will give you "Mayf's Answer"........ The opposite of lefty! Ed V Ed; True but which side of the wrench is ?righty?? Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:10 PM To:neil at dbelltech.com; 'Benn'; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Neil, Righty-tighty Lefty-loosey 0-) Ed V -----Original Message----- From:neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 05:44 PM To: ''Benn'', land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting box on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Jan 29 23:06:50 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:06:50 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498298FA.1060204@mayfco.com> Actually, when I use my wrenches, I never worry about righty tighty lefty loosey or was that lefty righty loosy goosey. In any case my wrenches all work from the same side without having to flip them over. I merely flip the really small lever one way of the other. These do have a nifty feature though and that is that the wrench box end area has a lip so that the wrench will not go on too far. No, the opposite of righty is polarize... mayf neil at dbelltech.com wrote: >Why didn't I think of that, Ed? > > > >Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ > > _____ > >From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com] >Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:42 PM >To: neil at dbelltech.com; 'Ed Van Scoy'; 'Benn'; land-speed at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > > >Come on Neil, with your background it should be obvious!! I will give you >"Mayf's Answer"........ The opposite of lefty! > >Ed V > > > > > > >Ed; > > > >True but which side of the wrench is ?righty?? > > > >Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ > > _____ > >From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com] >Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:10 PM >To: neil at dbelltech.com; 'Benn'; land-speed at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > > >Neil, > > > >Righty-tighty > >Lefty-loosey > >0-) > > > >Ed V > >-----Original Message----- >From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com] >Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 05:44 PM >To: ''Benn'', land-speed at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > >Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting box >on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and >"OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Fri Jan 30 08:46:50 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:46:50 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches References: Message-ID: <7AA90DD0CE0A4D6796376AEBAF9C7869@Glens> It's opposite of un do. Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'Ed Van Scoy'" ; "'Benn'" ; Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > Ed; > > > > True but which side of the wrench is "righty"? > > > > Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ > > _____ > > From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:10 PM > To: neil at dbelltech.com; 'Benn'; land-speed at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > > > Neil, > > > > Righty-tighty > > Lefty-loosey > > 0-) > > > > Ed V > > -----Original Message----- > From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 05:44 PM > To: ''Benn'', land-speed at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting > box > on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and > "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- > > > > > > > > Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Benn Sent: > Thursday, > January 29, 2009 11:43 AM To: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: > [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Looking to get a set of ratchet box-end > wrenches. It would seem that besides a fine-tooth ratchet, one would want > the smallest possible head diameter (the thinnest I've seen are about > 3/16" > total wall thickness including the moving socket and stationary outer > wall). > Some of the cheaper sheetmetal-sandwich types have horrendously large > heads. > I also want units that are reversible, so that they can have the fixed > angled offset. I'm not hot on flex-head types, which always seem to move > when you don't want them to. And just to make it tougher, I probably can't > rationalize a $100+ Snap-On set. Recommendations? Benn Land-speed mailing > list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Land-speed mailing list > > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Fri Jan 30 09:19:36 2009 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:19:36 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches In-Reply-To: <7AA90DD0CE0A4D6796376AEBAF9C7869@Glens> References: <7AA90DD0CE0A4D6796376AEBAF9C7869@Glens> Message-ID: <09F06E7D-EDA3-4229-A074-B43BEB15F6AD@nancyandjon.org> On Jan 30, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Glen Barrett wrote: It's opposite of un do. Glen ----- O > Ed; > > > > True but which side of the wrench is "righty"? > > > > Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ > > > Neil, > > > > Righty-tighty > > Lefty-loosey > > 0-) > > > > Ed V > > Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a > ratcheting box > on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and > "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- > > > Okay, that's it. Someone has to come up with something to beat the winter blahs. We're reduced to arguing over how to remove a reverse- Metric-threaded Whitworth fastener. There's gotta be something better than this to talk about. I'd post a photo of Nancy's newest tattoo but the list machine won't let me do photos. 11F (that's +11!! Yee- hah!, warm weather finally) in Skandia. Jon Wennerberg Tall guy with moustache and a pair of 2 Club hats From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Fri Jan 30 10:00:57 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:00:57 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches References: <7AA90DD0CE0A4D6796376AEBAF9C7869@Glens> <09F06E7D-EDA3-4229-A074-B43BEB15F6AD@nancyandjon.org> Message-ID: <2CAE27C605F34DECAE3D2B9B1B7D68B5@Glens> Yeah but how many of you have a set of Bristol allen type wrenches, I do. GB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" To: "Glen Barrett" Cc: ; "'Ed Van Scoy'" ; "'Benn'" ; Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > On Jan 30, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Glen Barrett wrote: > > It's opposite of un do. > Glen > ----- O > >> Ed; >> >> >> >> True but which side of the wrench is "righty"? >> >> >> >> Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ >> >> >> Neil, >> >> >> >> Righty-tighty >> >> Lefty-loosey >> >> 0-) >> >> >> >> Ed V >> >> Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting >> box >> on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and >> "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- >> >> >> > > > > Okay, that's it. Someone has to come up with something to beat the > winter blahs. We're reduced to arguing over how to remove a reverse- > Metric-threaded Whitworth fastener. There's gotta be something better > than this to talk about. I'd post a photo of Nancy's newest tattoo but > the list machine won't let me do photos. 11F (that's +11!! Yee- hah!, > warm weather finally) in Skandia. > > Jon Wennerberg > Tall guy with moustache > and a pair of 2 Club hats From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org Fri Jan 30 10:13:19 2009 From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:13:19 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches In-Reply-To: <2CAE27C605F34DECAE3D2B9B1B7D68B5@Glens> References: <7AA90DD0CE0A4D6796376AEBAF9C7869@Glens><09F06E7D-EDA3-4229-A074-B43BEB15F6AD@nancyandjon.org> <2CAE27C605F34DECAE3D2B9B1B7D68B5@Glens> Message-ID: This will be interesting . . . . (my old tools) Bristol sound british . . . .?????? -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glen Barrett Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 10:01 AM To: Jon Wennerberg Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Yeah but how many of you have a set of Bristol allen type wrenches, I do. GB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" To: "Glen Barrett" Cc: ; "'Ed Van Scoy'" ; "'Benn'" ; Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > On Jan 30, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Glen Barrett wrote: > > It's opposite of un do. > Glen > ----- O > >> Ed; >> >> >> >> True but which side of the wrench is "righty"? >> >> >> >> Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ >> >> >> Neil, >> >> >> >> Righty-tighty >> >> Lefty-loosey >> >> 0-) >> >> >> >> Ed V >> >> Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting >> box >> on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and >> "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- >> >> >> > > > > Okay, that's it. Someone has to come up with something to beat the > winter blahs. We're reduced to arguing over how to remove a reverse- > Metric-threaded Whitworth fastener. There's gotta be something better > than this to talk about. I'd post a photo of Nancy's newest tattoo but > the list machine won't let me do photos. 11F (that's +11!! Yee- hah!, > warm weather finally) in Skandia. > > Jon Wennerberg > Tall guy with moustache > and a pair of 2 Club hats Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Fri Jan 30 10:25:28 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:25:28 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches References: <7AA90DD0CE0A4D6796376AEBAF9C7869@Glens><09F06E7D-EDA3-4229-A074-B43BEB15F6AD@nancyandjon.org> <2CAE27C605F34DECAE3D2B9B1B7D68B5@Glens> Message-ID: <09EF74D9EECE484EA931E0429005C5A4@Glens> The Bristol hex wrenches were made in Waterbury, Conn. Still in original package. I also have a set of sockets made by Blackhawk that are 7/16 square drive, also has a 1/2 to 7/16 adapter with them. Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adin, David" To: "Glen Barrett" ; "Jon Wennerberg" Cc: Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: RE: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches This will be interesting . . . . (my old tools) Bristol sound british . . . .?????? -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glen Barrett Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 10:01 AM To: Jon Wennerberg Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Yeah but how many of you have a set of Bristol allen type wrenches, I do. GB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" To: "Glen Barrett" Cc: ; "'Ed Van Scoy'" ; "'Benn'" ; Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > On Jan 30, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Glen Barrett wrote: > > It's opposite of un do. > Glen > ----- O > >> Ed; >> >> >> >> True but which side of the wrench is "righty"? >> >> >> >> Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ >> >> >> Neil, >> >> >> >> Righty-tighty >> >> Lefty-loosey >> >> 0-) >> >> >> >> Ed V >> >> Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting >> box >> on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and >> "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- >> >> >> > > > > Okay, that's it. Someone has to come up with something to beat the > winter blahs. We're reduced to arguing over how to remove a reverse- > Metric-threaded Whitworth fastener. There's gotta be something better > than this to talk about. I'd post a photo of Nancy's newest tattoo but > the list machine won't let me do photos. 11F (that's +11!! Yee- hah!, > warm weather finally) in Skandia. > > Jon Wennerberg > Tall guy with moustache > and a pair of 2 Club hats Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org Fri Jan 30 10:38:19 2009 From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:38:19 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches In-Reply-To: <09EF74D9EECE484EA931E0429005C5A4@Glens> References: <7AA90DD0CE0A4D6796376AEBAF9C7869@Glens><09F06E7D-EDA3-4229-A074-B43BEB15F6AD@nancyandjon.org> <2CAE27C605F34DECAE3D2B9B1B7D68B5@Glens> <09EF74D9EECE484EA931E0429005C5A4@Glens> Message-ID: Late forties/early fifties my Dad was a phone company lineman - there are some "Bell system" donations in my tool box - "snips" , sidecutters (can I say "dykes"???) and a soldering iron of ample size w/ a cloth covered cord - still my favorite on the bench. There is something about a "just about worn out" hand tool . . .. Glen, don't lose that adapter hahahahaha! -----Original Message----- From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 10:25 AM To: Adin, David; Jon Wennerberg Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches The Bristol hex wrenches were made in Waterbury, Conn. Still in original package. I also have a set of sockets made by Blackhawk that are 7/16 square drive, also has a 1/2 to 7/16 adapter with them. Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adin, David" To: "Glen Barrett" ; "Jon Wennerberg" Cc: Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: RE: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches This will be interesting . . . . (my old tools) Bristol sound british . . . .?????? -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glen Barrett Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 10:01 AM To: Jon Wennerberg Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Yeah but how many of you have a set of Bristol allen type wrenches, I do. GB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" To: "Glen Barrett" Cc: ; "'Ed Van Scoy'" ; "'Benn'" ; Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > On Jan 30, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Glen Barrett wrote: > > It's opposite of un do. > Glen > ----- O > >> Ed; >> >> >> >> True but which side of the wrench is "righty"? >> >> >> >> Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ >> >> >> Neil, >> >> >> >> Righty-tighty >> >> Lefty-loosey >> >> 0-) >> >> >> >> Ed V >> >> Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting >> box >> on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and >> "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- >> >> >> > > > > Okay, that's it. Someone has to come up with something to beat the > winter blahs. We're reduced to arguing over how to remove a reverse- > Metric-threaded Whitworth fastener. There's gotta be something better > than this to talk about. I'd post a photo of Nancy's newest tattoo but > the list machine won't let me do photos. 11F (that's +11!! Yee- hah!, > warm weather finally) in Skandia. > > Jon Wennerberg > Tall guy with moustache > and a pair of 2 Club hats Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From karhu at california.com Fri Jan 30 10:42:37 2009 From: karhu at california.com (Benn) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:42:37 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches References: <498298FA.1060204@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <2B438DF76389482EB975C4A0DFB98EA8@BennsDesktop> Yeah, Mayf, but waddya do when you need the offset of the wrench the other direction? You can't do it. I've thought about the design you have and can't decide if it is enough more useful most of the time to offset the few times that you really need the wrench on "backwards" for clearance to nearby obstructions. As I figured, people have a lot of thoughts on tools, and I thank one and all for their input.. I love thinking about the progression over the millenia from the first hammer to current robots. Our nicely shaped pieces of steel are well-suited to their specialized tasks, but I'm probably more impressed with the proto-human who first tied a rock to a stick. (Hence the naming of our production company "Fire and Tools".) I suspect that many of us have an almost visceral but reverent feeling for these way cool extensions of our capabilities. Benn ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" > > merely flip the really small lever one way of the other. These do have > a nifty feature though and that is that the wrench box end area has a lip > so that the wrench will not go on too far. From neil at dbelltech.com Fri Jan 30 10:49:38 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:49:38 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches In-Reply-To: <09EF74D9EECE484EA931E0429005C5A4@Glens> References: <7AA90DD0CE0A4D6796376AEBAF9C7869@Glens><09F06E7D-EDA3-4229-A074-B43BEB15F6AD@nancyandjon.org><2CAE27C605F34DECAE3D2B9B1B7D68B5@Glens> <09EF74D9EECE484EA931E0429005C5A4@Glens> Message-ID: <07EA88B4D3A040B8A1FB9FD896F27AE9@DBTech> Glen; Are those Bristol wrenches right- hand or left- hand? Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glen Barrett Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 10:25 AM To: Adin, David; Jon Wennerberg Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches The Bristol hex wrenches were made in Waterbury, Conn. Still in original package. I also have a set of sockets made by Blackhawk that are 7/16 square drive, also has a 1/2 to 7/16 adapter with them. Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adin, David" To: "Glen Barrett" ; "Jon Wennerberg" Cc: Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: RE: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches This will be interesting . . . . (my old tools) Bristol sound british . . . .?????? -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glen Barrett Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 10:01 AM To: Jon Wennerberg Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Yeah but how many of you have a set of Bristol allen type wrenches, I do. GB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" To: "Glen Barrett" Cc: ; "'Ed Van Scoy'" ; "'Benn'" ; Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > > On Jan 30, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Glen Barrett wrote: > > It's opposite of un do. > Glen > ----- O > >> Ed; >> >> >> >> True but which side of the wrench is "righty"? >> >> >> >> Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ >> >> >> Neil, >> >> >> >> Righty-tighty >> >> Lefty-loosey >> >> 0-) >> >> >> >> Ed V >> >> Benn; Try COSTCO; I have a set with open-end on one end and a ratcheting >> box >> on the other-- works great but they forgot to label the sides "ON" and >> "OFF". Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----- >> >> >> > > > > Okay, that's it. Someone has to come up with something to beat the > winter blahs. We're reduced to arguing over how to remove a reverse- > Metric-threaded Whitworth fastener. There's gotta be something better > than this to talk about. I'd post a photo of Nancy's newest tattoo but > the list machine won't let me do photos. 11F (that's +11!! Yee- hah!, > warm weather finally) in Skandia. > > Jon Wennerberg > Tall guy with moustache > and a pair of 2 Club hats Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Jan 30 13:06:49 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:06:49 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Week Daily Schedule.... Message-ID: <49835DD9.8080207@mayfco.com> I know the event starts on the 7th. Is that day for pit setup and inspections? Is Saturday the drivers meeting and racing start? I am asking because a couple of guys want to come and see the show but they wont be able to be here long. They want to know the Best Days to see as much as they can see. mayf From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com Fri Jan 30 13:31:23 2009 From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:31:23 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches (NONE LSR) References: Message-ID: -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ed Van Scoy" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:09 PM To: ; "'Benn'" ; Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches > Neil, > > Righty-tighty > Lefty-loosey > 0-) > > Ed V > Reminds me of the stencils on the NASA 747 shuttle carrier aircraft. on the mountings points where they attach the shuttle to 747 are little messages to the crew doing the work... one sez" CAUTION PLACE OBITER(sic) HERE BLACK SIDE DOWN http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Shuttle_mounting_point.JPG and another site has a different angle shot.. right under the photo of the 747 itself.. http://edwards.airshowjournal.com/2003/ Reportedly the One other is stenciled with LEFTY LOOSY RIGHTY TIGHTY Haven't found a photo of it yet, but I have it from good authority that's its there.. =========================================================================== In ice bound Louisville Ky with no electric for 3rd day.. From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Fri Jan 30 14:38:46 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:38:46 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Rachet wrenches and other stuff. Message-ID: <340C7F3051E14276BA0006404E703CE7@Glens> Neil For some reason I tried to forward the next chapter on the wrenches and it won't go thru to anyone. so the remarks regarding the Bristol wrenches was are the left or right hand? I answered they were for ambidextrous in case Drmayf didn't know which side to stand on, or they might be universal. Add on Seeing as how he lives in Pahrump where the magnetic field is confused in the valley of snakes and lost Indians he has to ask these questions. Glen From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Jan 30 14:59:39 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:59:39 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Rachet wrenches and other stuff. In-Reply-To: <340C7F3051E14276BA0006404E703CE7@Glens> References: <340C7F3051E14276BA0006404E703CE7@Glens> Message-ID: <4983784B.9070508@mayfco.com> Glen Barrett wrote: > Neil > For some reason I tried to forward the next chapter on the wrenches > and it won't go thru to anyone. so the remarks regarding the Bristol > wrenches was are the left or right hand? > I answered they were for ambidextrous in case Drmayf didn't know which > side to stand on, or they might be universal. > > Add on > Seeing as how he lives in Pahrump where the magnetic field is confused > in the valley of snakes and lost Indians he has to ask these questions. > > Glen Huh? Ambidextrous wrenches? So then is that lefty tighty righty loosey then? Universal wrenches? So one tool would be good for all things? Like opening a can of worms? Or fixing a muffler bearing? As to pahrump, the magnetic fields are not the only things confused here! And snakes.. the only one we have actually seen here is of all things a "desert rose pyhon". The wife was in her garden spot working away at pulling weeds and there it was.... she scared the crap outta the snake and vice versa, lol.... twas about 3 feet long. And quite pretty. As snakes go that is... Back to the shop to uise some more of my special words.... mayf From neil at dbelltech.com Fri Jan 30 15:01:56 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:01:56 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Rachet wrenches and other stuff. In-Reply-To: <340C7F3051E14276BA0006404E703CE7@Glens> References: <340C7F3051E14276BA0006404E703CE7@Glens> Message-ID: OK, Glen. You know how to properly tighten those wrenches, right? "tighten 'till you feel it 'give' and then back off a half- turn." Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ _____ From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:39 PM To: neil albaugh; jon wennnerberg; Adin, David; drmayf; landspeed at autox.team.net Subject: Rachet wrenches and other stuff. Neil For some reason I tried to forward the next chapter on the wrenches and it won't go thru to anyone. so the remarks regarding the Bristol wrenches was are the left or right hand? I answered they were for ambidextrous in case Drmayf didn't know which side to stand on, or they might be universal. Add on Seeing as how he lives in Pahrump where the magnetic field is confused in the valley of snakes and lost Indians he has to ask these questions. Glen From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Fri Jan 30 15:09:15 2009 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:09:15 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Week Daily Schedule.... In-Reply-To: <49835DD9.8080207@mayfco.com> References: <49835DD9.8080207@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <77D1CF28-D0F6-4384-AD1F-08E53C291D5E@nancyandjon.org> On Jan 30, 2009, at 3:06 PM, drmayf wrote: I know the event starts on the 7th. Is that day for pit setup and inspections? Is Saturday the drivers meeting and racing start? I am asking because a couple of guys want to come and see the show but they wont be able to be here long. They want to know the Best Days to see as much as they can see. mayf Mayf: I'm pretty sure that Friday is inspection/setup/open to the public day. I think (also) that no admittance for racers/crews/trailers will be allowed before Friday -- although I could be wrong and folks will be allowed to enter Thursday. Don't believe me -- wait for official word on that. Racing will start Saturday, like it has in the recent past (except for last year) after the morning driver's meeting and the course ride/ rookie orientation. Tell your buddies to be there Friday and Saturday if they've only got two days -- although Saturday and Sunday would also be good viewing. We've got snow snakes here in Skandia -- no desert roses. Jon Wennerberg Tall guy with moustache and a pair of 2 Club hats From speedtimer at beyondbb.com Fri Jan 30 15:09:53 2009 From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:09:53 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Rachet wrenches and other stuff. References: <340C7F3051E14276BA0006404E703CE7@Glens> Message-ID: Give is a nano-second before the snap sound. temp. must be considered as they break when colder and bend when hot Glen ----- Original Message ----- From: neil at dbelltech.com To: 'Glen Barrett' ; 'jon wennnerberg' ; 'Adin, David' ; 'drmayf' ; 'landspeed at autox.team.net' Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 3:01 PM Subject: RE: Rachet wrenches and other stuff. OK, Glen. You know how to properly tighten those wrenches, right? "tighten 'till you feel it 'give' and then back off a half- turn." Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:39 PM To: neil albaugh; jon wennnerberg; Adin, David; drmayf; landspeed at autox.team.net Subject: Rachet wrenches and other stuff. Neil For some reason I tried to forward the next chapter on the wrenches and it won't go thru to anyone. so the remarks regarding the Bristol wrenches was are the left or right hand? I answered they were for ambidextrous in case Drmayf didn't know which side to stand on, or they might be universal. Add on Seeing as how he lives in Pahrump where the magnetic field is confused in the valley of snakes and lost Indians he has to ask these questions. Glen From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Jan 30 18:04:49 2009 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:04:49 -0800 Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Week Daily Schedule.... In-Reply-To: <77D1CF28-D0F6-4384-AD1F-08E53C291D5E@nancyandjon.org> References: <49835DD9.8080207@mayfco.com> <77D1CF28-D0F6-4384-AD1F-08E53C291D5E@nancyandjon.org> Message-ID: <4983A3B1.1080705@mayfco.com> Ahhh, the dreaded snow snake....wtf is that? thanks for info below.. mayf Jon Wennerberg wrote: > > On Jan 30, 2009, at 3:06 PM, drmayf wrote: > > I know the event starts on the 7th. Is that day for pit setup and > inspections? Is Saturday the drivers meeting and racing start? > > I am asking because a couple of guys want to come and see the show > but they wont be able to be here long. They want to know the Best > Days to see as much as they can see. > > > mayf > > > > Mayf: > > I'm pretty sure that Friday is inspection/setup/open to the public > day. I think (also) that no admittance for racers/crews/trailers > will be allowed before Friday -- although I could be wrong and folks > will be allowed to enter Thursday. Don't believe me -- wait for > official word on that. > > Racing will start Saturday, like it has in the recent past (except > for last year) after the morning driver's meeting and the course > ride/ rookie orientation. > > Tell your buddies to be there Friday and Saturday if they've only got > two days -- although Saturday and Sunday would also be good viewing. > > We've got snow snakes here in Skandia -- no desert roses. > > > Jon Wennerberg > Tall guy with moustache > and a pair of 2 Club hats From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org Fri Jan 30 18:16:17 2009 From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:16:17 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Week Daily Schedule.... In-Reply-To: <4983A3B1.1080705@mayfco.com> References: <49835DD9.8080207@mayfco.com> <77D1CF28-D0F6-4384-AD1F-08E53C291D5E@nancyandjon.org> <4983A3B1.1080705@mayfco.com> Message-ID: On Jan 30, 2009, at 8:04 PM, drmayf wrote: Ahhh, the dreaded snow snake....wtf is that? thanks for info below.. mayf They're related, biologically or at least in the literature, to snipes and other stuff. I suppose there is some real thinking behind the legends, though -- because it's very common to see tracks in the snow -- tracks that wiggle and meander as might a snake's. But the culprit is the vole, a little mouse-like creature that tunnels along about an inch or so under the surface of the snow. A couple of beers and the vole tunnels might well look like something left behind by a snow snake. Further deponent sayeth not. Jon, your friend and mine. From rbuck at xmission.com Fri Jan 30 19:12:45 2009 From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:12:45 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR OLD CAR AND TRUCK PHOTOS In-Reply-To: <001001c9828c$e09ce220$2101a8c0@WinXP> References: <001001c9828c$e09ce220$2101a8c0@WinXP> Message-ID: There's also a good thread with lotsa Bonneville photos on landracing.com: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,5202.0.html RtR (I love Stude Hawks. I've wanted a Silver Hawk most of my life.) At 08:43 PM 1/29/2009, joseph lance wrote: >A motorhead can get lost for hours in this website. > >My favorites include Studebaker Hawks (had two of them), pre WWII Buick >Centurys, and the 1949 Buick Roadmaster Sedanette (no matter how it >handles!!) > >Lance >www.oldcarandtruckpictures.com From joyseydevil at comcast.net Fri Jan 30 19:36:42 2009 From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:36:42 -0500 Subject: [Land-speed] ratchet wrenches Message-ID: <0D3D495D51FF4FA8AE10AC6701E5C39C@john> Glen Yours must be to adjust your Ricardo Mille watch . EBay #270315991274 > Yeah but how many of you have a set of Bristol allen type wrenches, I do. > GB From neil at dbelltech.com Sat Jan 31 17:45:07 2009 From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:45:07 -0700 Subject: [Land-speed] Plasma Cutter Message-ID: <6A971C48FD1645DAB5B3721A3871B45F@DBTech> FYI, I just bought a light- duty plasma cutter from Harbor Freight on sale for $399. If anyone is interested in a plasma cutter you might have a look at that one. It isn't anything fancy and can cut only 0.200" thick steel but that is really all I need. I fired it up for the first time and cut a piece of 16 ga. scrap tubing with ease. It will also cut stainless, aluminum, & titanium. I think their sale is on for another week. The Box says "120 Volt Inverter Plasma Cutter" & "Item 97994". It isn't a Miller or Lincoln by any means but it seems to work OK and I could afford it. Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ From Jimwprice at aol.com Sat Jan 31 21:55:20 2009 From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:55:20 EST Subject: [Land-speed] Plasma Cutter Message-ID: Does HF sell the expendables? They are where the up keep bucks are. **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023)