From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Jul  1 18:07:39 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:07:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] chat line tonight
Message-ID: <00b601c8dbd7$a46a9880$6501a8c0@Glens>

Who's going to be there???

From turbovortec6 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 18:15:30 2008
From: turbovortec6 at yahoo.com (Randy Will)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:15:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] chat tonight
Message-ID: <18404.19150.qm@web32102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

 Glen, I won't be there tonight or anytime soon. I am no longer a part of the
landracing.com forum.

 Randy

From turbovortec6 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 20:36:47 2008
From: turbovortec6 at yahoo.com (Randy Will)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 19:36:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] chat tonight
Message-ID: <245080.14364.qm@web32108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Jon,

    one of the most treasured things that I have ever received from the LSR
community is the shirt that you gave me back in 2003 at Bonneville.If you
remember Clem and I jumped in and tore you bike down so you could pass tech
and claim the 2 (?) records you had set.This was after you tried to borrow the
tools from a fellow racer,  his reply was I have the tools but you're not
using them.Nice guy, Somehow I don't think he's on either of our Christmas
card list's.

 
  Jon what ever you do please do not take it personally that I removed myself
from landracing.com. It had nothing what so ever to do with you! I tried to
use the ignore button on a couple of members that seem to know it all. That
just don't  work for me at all. I feel that I'm being just as rude as they are
by using it. So I'm just going to cool my heels for awhile and see if they
self destruct.
   
With all respect,
Randy Williams

Wailer One Racing

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul  3 21:14:13 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:14:13 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Barry Kaplan
Message-ID: <005201c8dd84$0edcebc0$6501a8c0@Glens>

Master wrench Barry Kaplan of the Carr-Kaplan lakester (1st over 300 mph) in
the dirt passed away 2 days ago. Information should be posted on his service
on this web site and landracing,com when it's available.
Another major part of history in dry lakes and Bonneville land speed racing is
gone.
God Speed Barry.

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Jul  4 11:35:52 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:35:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Barry Kaplan
References: <005201c8dd84$0edcebc0$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <001001c8ddfc$685f9210$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

For those of you who did not know Barry he was a very special person in LSR. 
Just look at the El Mirage records for unblown fuel lakester and the dates 
and you will see what I mean. B/Blown Fuel at 306 was our first 300. Barry 
would look at me after some of the runs and say "Not bad for Jew Boy"  and 
we would laugh. He was one hell of a construction superintendent and knew 
how to get the job done..JD



> Master wrench Barry Kaplan of the Carr-Kaplan lakester (1st over 300 mph) 
> in
> the dirt passed away 2 days ago. Information should be posted on his 
> service
> on this web site and landracing,com when it's available.
> Another major part of history in dry lakes and Bonneville land speed 
> racing is
> gone.
> God Speed Barry.

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sat Jul  5 09:51:55 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 8:51:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Barry Kaplan
In-Reply-To: <001001c8ddfc$685f9210$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <20080705115155.JU4FJ.1238.imail@fed1rmwml38>

JD,, A very fitting coment for a Succesful Life----He knew how to get the "JOB DONE"---wish I had the opportunity to know him!!!!!!!!!! wmts
---- "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net> wrote: 
>
 He was one hell of a construction superintendent and knew 
> how to get the job done..JD
> 
> 
> 
> > Master wrench Barry Kaplan of the Carr-Kaplan lakester (1st over 300 mph) 
> > in
> > the dirt passed away 2 days ago. 

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Jul  5 10:28:56 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 09:28:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Barry Kaplan
Message-ID: <004201c8debc$3ab97630$6501a8c0@S>

FWD to list with edits
EW
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>; "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "J.D.
Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "landspeed at autox.team.net"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Barry Kaplan


> Barry was too young to leave us.  I'm saddened.
> Some 8 or so years ago IIRC we pitted next to Barry and we had some
chances
> to chat.  I don't remember the car he was running; but I sure remember
him.
> Working in Silicon Valley with a bit of early esposure to the Navy I've
met
> a lot of "high caliber" people.  Just a few ever really impressed me.
Barry
> Kaplan was in that league.  Like JD, I wish I'd gotten to know him better.
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
> To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "J.D. Tone"
> <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "landspeed at autox.team.net"
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 8:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Barry Kaplan
> > JD,, A very fitting coment for a Succesful Life----He knew how to get
the
> "JOB DONE"---wish I had the opportunity to know him!!!!!!!!!! wmts
> > ---- "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >  He was one hell of a construction superintendent and knew
> > > how to get the job done..JD
> > > > Master wrench Barry Kaplan of the Carr-Kaplan lakester (1st over 300
> mph) in the dirt passed away 2 days ago.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Jul  5 10:16:49 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 09:16:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Barry Kaplan
References: <20080705115155.JU4FJ.1238.imail@fed1rmwml38>
Message-ID: <000801c8deba$8a3806b0$6501a8c0@S>

Barry was to young to leave us.  I'm saddened.
Some 8 or so years ago IIRC we pitted next to Barry and we had some chances
to chat.  I don't remember the car he was running; but I sure remember him.
Working in Silicon Valley with a bit of early esposure to the Navy I've met
a lot of "high caliber" people.  Just a few ever really impressed me.  Barry
Kaplan was in that league.  Like JD, I wish I'd gotten to know him better.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "J.D. Tone"
<gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "landspeed at autox.team.net"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Barry Kaplan


> JD,, A very fitting coment for a Succesful Life----He knew how to get the
"JOB DONE"---wish I had the opportunity to know him!!!!!!!!!! wmts
> ---- "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
>  He was one hell of a construction superintendent and knew
> > how to get the job done..JD
> >
> >
> >
> > > Master wrench Barry Kaplan of the Carr-Kaplan lakester (1st over 300
mph)
> > > in
> > > the dirt passed away 2 days ago.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as 23.weldon at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Jul  6 09:39:02 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 09:39:02 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] hot wheels
Message-ID: <002901c8df7e$722c0520$6501a8c0@Glens>

According to the Salt Lake fish wrapper a $140k JEWELED HOT WHEELS CAR WILL BE
ON DISPLAY AT SPEED WEEK. It's the 40 th anniversary of hot wheels and  4
billionth hot wheels vehicle.
www.hotwheels.com/40th

The article doesn't say which hotel it will be displayed in.

Glen

--
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From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Jul  7 08:50:35 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 07:50:35 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Crankcase breathers
Message-ID: <48722D3B.00000F.03200@D3DP98F1>

I have been having problems with oil aeration which causes a drop in oil
pressure in toward the end of a run, especially since replacing my dry sump
pump. When we were doing the dyno work this in April, John suggested that I
was pulling too much air into the crankcase. I had a breather on each valve
cover. We taped off on valve cover and picked up about 10 psi at the upper
rpm, which verified his suggestion.

A few years ago, I was discussing crankcase breathing with my previous
engine guru and he said since it was good to have a vacuum in the crankcase,
the conventional wisdom was to use a closed system with a pressure relief.

Does anyone know where I can buy a closed breather with a built in pressure
relief. So far I have been unable to locate one on the net.

Tom

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of cat_side_en.gif]

From delsolid at gmail.com  Mon Jul  7 09:23:03 2008
From: delsolid at gmail.com (John Romero)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:23:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Crankcase breathers
In-Reply-To: <48722D3B.00000F.03200@D3DP98F1>
References: <48722D3B.00000F.03200@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <bbf5bf710807070823s6cf16fcfr60c0057f158eb96f@mail.gmail.com>

Tom,

I use this one from Z10 Motorsports. It's threads are -12 and has a
vacuum regulator and a safety blow off.

http://www.z10eng.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=33

John

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Mon Jul  7 09:23:06 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:23:06 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Crankcase breathers
In-Reply-To: <48722D3B.00000F.03200@D3DP98F1>
References: <48722D3B.00000F.03200@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <8E54E8ED142143649526DD1DDDACA688@DaveSatellite>

How many stage dry sump pump and how are the scavange lines laid out??
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
To: "Landspeed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:50 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Crankcase breathers


>I have been having problems with oil aeration which causes a drop in oil
> pressure in toward the end of a run, especially since replacing my dry 
> sump
> pump. When we were doing the dyno work this in April, John suggested that 
> I
> was pulling too much air into the crankcase. I had a breather on each 
> valve
> cover. We taped off on valve cover and picked up about 10 psi at the upper
> rpm, which verified his suggestion.
>
> A few years ago, I was discussing crankcase breathing with my previous
> engine guru and he said since it was good to have a vacuum in the 
> crankcase,
> the conventional wisdom was to use a closed system with a pressure relief.
>
> Does anyone know where I can buy a closed breather with a built in 
> pressure
> relief. So far I have been unable to locate one on the net.
>
> Tom

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Jul  7 19:23:51 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:23:51 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] hot wheels
In-Reply-To: <002901c8df7e$722c0520$6501a8c0@Glens>
References: <002901c8df7e$722c0520$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W6ABB8BACD5F472034A02FC9970@phx.gbl>

Noticed the 40th Anniversary Hot Wheels logo on the new 2008 SW Poster?Tom
ShannonMagna, Utah> From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com> To:
land-speed at autox.team.net> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 09:39:02 -0600> Subject:
[Land-speed] hot wheels> > According to the Salt Lake fish wrapper a $140k
JEWELED HOT WHEELS CAR WILL BE> ON DISPLAY AT SPEED WEEK. It's the 40 th
anniversary of hot wheels and 4> billionth hot wheels vehicle.>
www.hotwheels.com/40th> > The article doesn't say which hotel it will be
displayed in.> > Glen> > --> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for
private users.> It has removed 687 spam emails to date.> Paying users do not
have this message in their emails.> Get the free SPAMfighter here:
http://www.spamfighter.com/len>
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are
subscribed as saltfevr at q.com> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Thu Jul 10 10:44:19 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:44:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] test my subscription
Message-ID: <48763C63.7070704@wildblue.net>

If  >I<  get this back -- all is well.
Finally.

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Thu Jul 10 10:54:12 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:54:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Water Injection  --  Too Much???
Message-ID: <48763EB4.2020307@wildblue.net>

List,

I have only heard of one instance in the last 35 years where a high
level of water injection  may  have caused a problem.

Jack Lufkin, using a BBC twin turbo setup with huge alcohol/ice cooled
intercoolers couldn't build boost. The problem was solved by leaving
the intercooler water pump and the water injection off until the 1-2 shift.

Has anyone heard of a situation where someone reduced the amount of
water injected and gained power?

Thanks for any comments,
Bryan

I hope this hasn't been discussed in the past. If so, I'm sorry.

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Jul 10 11:02:09 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:02:09 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Water Injection  --  Too Much???
In-Reply-To: <48763EB4.2020307@wildblue.net>
References: <48763EB4.2020307@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <CF2839FA45F14A86A2BD71B9C25A8862@DaveSatellite>

It is pretty obvious why this happened and it had nothing to do with the 
intercooler.. It was the water injection way too much before there was 
enough heat in the exhaust.. If the exhaust is cold you don't get boost 
period.. Too much water no boost...
I would love to see a dyno sheet of an engine that has an ice water type 
intercooler and proper octane fuel and then the with and with out water 
injection results. I am just not sold on the whole deal for a well prepared 
racing engine.
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "List Land Speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:54 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Water Injection -- Too Much???


> List,
>
> I have only heard of one instance in the last 35 years where a high
> level of water injection  may  have caused a problem.
>
> Jack Lufkin, using a BBC twin turbo setup with huge alcohol/ice cooled
> intercoolers couldn't build boost. The problem was solved by leaving
> the intercooler water pump and the water injection off until the 1-2 
> shift.
>
> Has anyone heard of a situation where someone reduced the amount of
> water injected and gained power?
>
> Thanks for any comments,
> Bryan

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Thu Jul 10 14:52:51 2008
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:52:51 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay
In-Reply-To: <CF2839FA45F14A86A2BD71B9C25A8862@DaveSatellite>
References: <48763EB4.2020307@wildblue.net>
	<CF2839FA45F14A86A2BD71B9C25A8862@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20AC77177@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Some peoples kids, says his dad used to be a Sidewinder in charge of
making the tags.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SCTA-Blank-Timing-Tag-NOS-1938-1948_W0QQc
mdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80736QQihZ013QQitemZ230268552663QQrdZ1QQsspagename
ZWDVW

Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Jul 10 20:28:57 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:28:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] HELP-- Need Torch Tips
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20AC77177@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
References: <48763EB4.2020307@wildblue.net><CF2839FA45F14A86A2BD71B9C25A8862@DaveSatellite>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20AC77177@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <009701c8e2fd$e21e02c0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

List;

HELP!

I use an oxy- acetylene torch that I bought back in the early '70s and
somehow I've misplaced or lost the extra tips for it. Does anyone know where
I can get a -4 or -5 tip for a Craftsman 624-54131 torch? It has a
triangular body with the gas controls on the top end of the body. The copper
tips thread into the mixer and the major diameter of the threads is 0.276". 

I've checked Sears but it's too old for them to stock replacement parts.
Trips to many welding supply houses have been fruitless; nobody knows who
made the torch for Sears and I have not been able to find tips with the
proper thread in any catalog-- Victor, Purox, Airco, Harris, etc.

If anyone has a tip they'd like to sell or knows where to find one, please
let me know. I don't want to buy a new torch just to be able to handle
thicker tubing.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

From wolcott_jl at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 20:46:04 2008
From: wolcott_jl at yahoo.com (Joel Wolcott)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:46:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] HELP-- Need Torch Tips
Message-ID: <263335.24873.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Here you go - Lots of discussion of old craftsman torch and suppliers
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?t=28574



----- Original
Message ----
From: "neil at dbelltech.com" <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: List Land
Speed <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:28:57 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] HELP-- Need Torch Tips

List;

HELP!

I use an oxy-
acetylene torch that I bought back in the early '70s and
somehow I've
misplaced or lost the extra tips for it. Does anyone know where
I can get a -4
or -5 tip for a Craftsman 624-54131 torch? It has a
triangular body with the
gas controls on the top end of the body. The copper
tips thread into the mixer
and the major diameter of the threads is 0.276". 

I've checked Sears but it's
too old for them to stock replacement parts.
Trips to many welding supply
houses have been fruitless; nobody knows who
made the torch for Sears and I
have not been able to find tips with the
proper thread in any catalog--
Victor, Purox, Airco, Harris, etc.

If anyone has a tip they'd like to sell or
knows where to find one, please
let me know. I don't want to buy a new torch
just to be able to handle
thicker tubing.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net 
http://www.team.net/donate.html

Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed
as wolcott_jl at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul 10 20:54:41 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:54:41 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay
References: <48763EB4.2020307@wildblue.net><CF2839FA45F14A86A2BD71B9C25A8862@DaveSatellite>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20AC77177@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <00c101c8e301$77f1d8f0$6501a8c0@Glens>

It's been removed from E-BAY
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MEIERLE Mike" <Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "List Land Speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 2:52 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay


> Some peoples kids, says his dad used to be a Sidewinder in charge of
> making the tags.
> 
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SCTA-Blank-Timing-Tag-NOS-1938-1948_W0QQc
> mdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80736QQihZ013QQitemZ230268552663QQrdZ1QQsspagename
> ZWDVW
> 
> Mike Meierle
> #847 F/P/MP
> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
> ECTA Record Holder
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>

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It has removed 719 spam emails to date.
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From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 14:00:15 2008
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:00:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Water Injection  --  Too Much???
In-Reply-To: <48763EB4.2020307@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <40464.81833.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

We think that our ice/water ratio was wrong when running a BBC, N/A, on
gasoline in the Alfa. We used to fill the tank with ice, no water, waiting for
engine water to turn the ice to slurry. The car would run out 100-200', nose
over and kick out black smoke. The intercooler sensor would read 15 deg. We
started to cut back on the amount of ice and low end performance increased
greatly. Car ran 251 in three miles after that.
 
DW

--- On Thu, 7/10/08, Bryan Savage <b.a.savage at wildblue.net> wrote:

From: Bryan Savage <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Water Injection -- Too Much???
To: "List Land Speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 9:54 AM

List,

I have only heard of one instance in the last 35 years where a high
level of water injection  may  have caused a problem.

Jack Lufkin, using a BBC twin turbo setup with huge alcohol/ice cooled
intercoolers couldn't build boost. The problem was solved by leaving
the intercooler water pump and the water injection off until the 1-2 shift.

Has anyone heard of a situation where someone reduced the amount of
water injected and gained power?

Thanks for any comments,
Bryan

I hope this hasn't been discussed in the past. If so, I'm sorry.
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Jul 10 21:13:27 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:13:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] HELP-- Need Torch Tips
In-Reply-To: <263335.24873.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <263335.24873.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <009e01c8e304$18c299c0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Thanks for that link, Joel. Unfortunately that thread discussion was on
cutting tips instead of welding but I did find lots of interesting stuff
there.

 

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

  _____  

From: Joel Wolcott [mailto:wolcott_jl at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 7:46 PM
To: neil at dbelltech.com
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] HELP-- Need Torch Tips

 

Here you go - Lots of discussion of old craftsman torch and suppliers

 

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?t=28574

 

----- Original Message ----
From: "neil at dbelltech.com" <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: List Land Speed <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:28:57 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] HELP-- Need Torch Tips

List;

HELP!

I use an oxy- acetylene torch that I bought back in the early '70s and
somehow I've misplaced or lost the extra tips for it. Does anyone know where
I can get a -4 or -5 tip for a Craftsman 624-54131 torch? It has a
triangular body with the gas controls on the top end of the body. The copper
tips thread into the mixer and the major diameter of the threads is 0.276". 

I've checked Sears but it's too old for them to stock replacement parts.
Trips to many welding supply houses have been fruitless; nobody knows who
made the torch for Sears and I have not been able to find tips with the
proper thread in any catalog-- Victor, Purox, Airco, Harris, etc.

If anyone has a tip they'd like to sell or knows where to find one, please
let me know. I don't want to buy a new torch just to be able to handle
thicker tubing.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as wolcott_jl at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Jul 10 22:12:51 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:12:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Unofficial Hall of Fame Announcement!
Message-ID: <008101c8e30c$62efe220$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Here is the list so far for the 2008 Dry Lakes Hall of Fame. The Gold Coast
Roadsters & Racers club still has to get in touch with a couple people before
the list will be complete.

  Historical Race Vehicle and the People behind it:

  Deeds 4-WD Roadster (Burbank Engine Service)        Nancy Deeds (spouse) &
Kennerd Deeds (son)



  Presently Running Race Vehicle:

  Danny Boy                                                         Thomason &
Tradup Racing (partners)



  Motorcycle (Historical of Presently running)        Still pending
notification & availability


  People Who Have Contributed

  Don Ferguson III


  Jim Jensen

  Mike Manghelli

  Steve Tollar

  Dennis Varni

  Robert "Bob" Webb



  Manufacturer

  ERC Racing Fuels                                                 Rick Gold
(owner)



  People from the Past Who Have Achieved (Deceased)

  Quinn Epperly

  Jim Feuling



  Historian

  John Thawley






   Doug Odom in big ditch

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Jul 10 22:21:12 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:21:12 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay
Message-ID: <W50009529059921215750072@webmail16>

I just checked it... 9:00 PM, and it's up to $326.
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 07:54 PM
To: 'MEIERLE Mike', 'List Land Speed'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay

It's been removed from E-BAYGlen----- Original Message ----- From: "MEIERLE
Mike" To: "List Land Speed" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 2:52 PMSubject:
[Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay> Some peoples kids, says his dad used
to be a Sidewinder in charge of> making the tags.> > >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SCTA-Blank-Timing-Tag-NOS-1938-1948_W0QQc>
mdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80736QQihZ013QQitemZ230268552663QQrdZ1QQsspagename>
ZWDVW> > Mike Meierle> #847 F/P/MP> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA>
ECTA Record Holder> _______________________________________________>

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Jul 10 22:26:22 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:26:22 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Unofficial Hall of Fame Announcement!
Message-ID: <W503051973481521215750382@webmail14>

Nice choices Doug... That makes twice for Duane McKinney...... Anybody else
evr done that?
Ed


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Odom [mailto:dlodom at charter.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 09:12 PM
To: landspeed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Unofficial Hall of Fame Announcement!

Here is the list so far for the 2008 Dry Lakes Hall of Fame. The Gold
CoastRoadsters & Racers club still has to get in touch with a couple people
beforethe list will be complete. Historical Race Vehicle and the People behind
it: Deeds 4-WD Roadster (Burbank Engine Service) Nancy Deeds (spouse) &Kennerd
Deeds (son) Presently Running Race Vehicle: Danny Boy Thomason &Tradup Racing
(partners) Motorcycle (Historical of Presently running) Still
pendingnotification & availability People Who Have Contributed Don Ferguson
III Jim Jensen Mike Manghelli Steve Tollar Dennis Varni Robert "Bob" Webb
Manufacturer ERC Racing Fuels Rick Gold(owner) People from the Past Who Have
Achieved (Deceased) Quinn Epperly Jim Feuling Historian John Thawley Doug Odom
in big ditch

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 07:56:08 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:56:08 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay
In-Reply-To: <W50009529059921215750072@webmail16>
References: <W50009529059921215750072@webmail16>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W8159C45494B369F3A789CD9900@phx.gbl>

FYI everybody:   here's whats there written under the listing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SCTA-Blank-Timing-Tag-NOS-1938-1948_W0QQitemZ2
30268552663QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230268552663&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1308


" On Jul-10-08 at 23:14:50 PDT, seller added the following information:This
will be the Last Timing tag I will be selling on Ebay. SCTA has asked
me to stop selling them and I am going to comply with there wishes. I
am waiting for an return email from Roy Creel the President of SCTA. If
we come to an agreement before the end of this auction I will be
closing this auction. Thank You for all of the interest! "



     c heers to ya , ' Dirt Track Doug '
        -20 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
        -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
        -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
       -105 miles south of   'the Syracuse Mile' ...
       -241.4 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
       -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
                but never more than a few feet from a cold one
-------------------------- oooo ---------------------------
              Wise words from the ancients   -especially in light of America's
' troubles' :




                     VULGAS VULT DECEPI   - Phaedrus

                                           (  the (common)  people wish to be
deceived  )

=========================================================================


> From: ed at vetteracing.com
> To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com; Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com;
land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:21:12 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay
>
> I just checked it... 9:00 PM, and it's up to $326.

> Ed
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 07:54 PM
> To: 'MEIERLE Mike', 'List Land Speed'
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay
>
> It's been removed from E-BAYGlen----- Original Message ----- From: "MEIERLE
> Mike" To: "List Land Speed" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 2:52 PMSubject:
> [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay> Some peoples kids, says his dad
used
> to be a Sidewinder in charge of> making the tags.> > >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SCTA-Blank-Timing-Tag-NOS-1938-1948_W0QQc>
> mdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80736QQihZ013QQitemZ230268552663QQrdZ1QQsspagename>
> ZWDVW> > Mike Meierle> #847 F/P/MP> SCTA-BNI/Gear
Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA>
> ECTA Record Holder> _______________________________________________>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

_________________________________________________________________
Its a talkathon  but its not just talk.
http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 11 09:33:50 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:33:50 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay
Message-ID: <32737742.1215790431056.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

This was being handled as diplimatically as possible under the circumstances. Roy has done this before sucessfully and is doing a fantastic job with an incident like this. I'm afarid I could never be like this. 

In the old days it was very time consuming to do by hand and even the stamping machine took time. With all that said, in my opinion none of the tags ever belong to the person dioing the work. At times I have over 2000 in my office and they are not mine. They belong to the SCTA. They belong to the competitors after they are completed and awarded. I do about 1400 tags a year a far cry from the 50's. When I give up this job someday the remaining tags will go to my sucsessor and hopefully they will have the same feeling concerning the responsability this job intails. I hope the prior folks doing this job have not kept any of the "stock" either. This is also why we will not remake timing tags for just anyone asking. It'd great that you may have puchased a old race car with a history but don't expect to get a duplicate timing tag because you won't....JD

 

>
>
>" On Jul-10-08 at 23:14:50 PDT, seller added the following information:This
>will be the Last Timing tag I will be selling on Ebay. SCTA has asked
>me to stop selling them and I am going to comply with there wishes. I
>am waiting for an return email from Roy Creel the President of SCTA. If
>we come to an agreement before the end of this auction I will be
>closing this auction. Thank You for all of the interest! "

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 14:05:39 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:05:39 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay
In-Reply-To: <32737742.1215790431056.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <32737742.1215790431056.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W389C4698D77DB4DCC366CBD9900@phx.gbl>

I couldn't agree with you more JD.

thanks for not only doing the job, but keeping it exclusiveAS IT SHOULD BE.No
one that doesn't deserve one should have one.

They all 'cost' way too much for it to be otherwise.keep on keepin' on....

     c heers to ya , ' Dirt Track Doug '
        -20 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
        -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
        -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
       -105 miles south of   'the Syracuse Mile' ...
       -241.4 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
       -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
                   but never more than a few feet from a cold one
-------------------------- oooo ---------------------------



> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:33:50 -0700
> From: gmc6power at earthlink.net
> To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com; ed at vetteracing.com; speedtimer at beyondbb.com;
mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Blank Timing Tags on E-Bay
>
> This was being handled as diplomatically as possible under the
circumstances. Roy has done this before successfully and is doing a fantastic
job with an incident like this. I'm afraid I could never be like this.
>
> In the old days it was very time consuming to do by hand and even the
stamping machine took time. With all that said, in my opinion none of the tags
ever belong to the person doing the work. At times I have over 2000 in my
office and they are not mine. They belong to the SCTA. They belong to the
competitors after they are completed and awarded. I do about 1400 tags a year
a far cry from the 50's. When I give up this job someday the remaining tags
will go to my successor and hopefully they will have the same feeling
concerning the responsibility this job entails. I hope the prior folks doing
this job have not kept any of the "stock" either. This is also why we will not
remake timing tags for just anyone asking. It'd great that you may have
purchased a old race car with a history but don't expect to get a duplicate
timing tag because you won't....JD
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >" On Jul-10-08 at 23:14:50 PDT, seller added the following
information:This
> >will be the Last Timing tag I will be selling on Ebay. SCTA has asked
> >me to stop selling them and I am going to comply with there wishes. I
> >am waiting for an return email from Roy Creel the President of SCTA. If
> >we come to an agreement before the end of this auction I will be
> >closing this auction. Thank You for all of the interest! "
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_
Refresh_messenger_video_072008

From desotoman at dslextreme.com  Sat Jul 12 13:14:55 2008
From: desotoman at dslextreme.com (Tom Gerardi)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:14:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Temple Roadster
Message-ID: <cc88a2266eab77aa24784a.20080712121455.qrfbgbzna@webmail.dslextreme.com>

I would like to tip my hat to the Deed's Roadster for winning the vote for
"Historical Vehicle" at the Dry Lakes Racing Hall of Fame.

I would also like to thank any of you that voted for the Temple Roadster.
Thank You for your vote.

Tom G.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jul 13 09:23:11 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:23:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair Method..
Message-ID: <487A1DDF.2060903@mayfco.com>

Yesterday after running the SUnbeam fora few minutes I noticed that it 
was dumping out the wastegates port at idle. Since I have had some 
issues with wastegates before I started isolating the problem. I found 
it thankfully in only one of the gates. And fourtunately the easiest one 
to remove. The diaphram that moves the valve open and closed has a small 
hole in it. That releases the air from the bottom side to the top side 
of the diaphram causing that one to be essentially stuck closed all the 
time.. That same plumbing system controls the other unit as well. 

So the removed the offensive unit and tore into it. The piston inside 
has a sharpmetal edge that did the evil deed as the vlve opened and 
closed.  The real issue is that this is a chinese unit (yeah, I am a 
cheap SOB, so get over it) and replacement parts are non existent. I 
have ordered a couple more gates and they should be here in a week or so.

The question is, do any of you have any iideas on how to repair a red 
silicone material or know of any items like high temp tape that would 
work to plug this small hole? If the darned this was made of rubber like 
a bicycle inner tube, I would just use a patch on it. But is a silicone 
material and hardly anything really sticks to it.  And this area gets  
hot so it needs to be capable of around 500dF or so.

I just need suggestions or methods to repair this, so don't get crazy 
and tell me I am a dumb sh*t for buying this junk to begin with, yada, 
yada...

Anh helpful ideas out there?

mayf

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Jul 13 09:33:09 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:33:09 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair Method..
References: <487A1DDF.2060903@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c8e4fd$c77791a0$6501a8c0@Glens>

Mayf
Check with Aircraft Spruce in chino Cal. In air craft there is a red sealant 
used for many applications. If you have a local airport they might have 
something that will work, BUY USA.

Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair Method..


> Yesterday after running the SUnbeam fora few minutes I noticed that it
> was dumping out the wastegates port at idle. Since I have had some
> issues with wastegates before I started isolating the problem. I found
> it thankfully in only one of the gates. And fourtunately the easiest one
> to remove. The diaphram that moves the valve open and closed has a small
> hole in it. That releases the air from the bottom side to the top side
> of the diaphram causing that one to be essentially stuck closed all the
> time.. That same plumbing system controls the other unit as well.
>
> So the removed the offensive unit and tore into it. The piston inside
> has a sharpmetal edge that did the evil deed as the vlve opened and
> closed.  The real issue is that this is a chinese unit (yeah, I am a
> cheap SOB, so get over it) and replacement parts are non existent. I
> have ordered a couple more gates and they should be here in a week or so.
>
> The question is, do any of you have any iideas on how to repair a red
> silicone material or know of any items like high temp tape that would
> work to plug this small hole? If the darned this was made of rubber like
> a bicycle inner tube, I would just use a patch on it. But is a silicone
> material and hardly anything really sticks to it.  And this area gets
> hot so it needs to be capable of around 500dF or so.
>
> I just need suggestions or methods to repair this, so don't get crazy
> and tell me I am a dumb sh*t for buying this junk to begin with, yada,
> yada...
>
> Anh helpful ideas out there?
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> 


-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 771 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

From Joetimney at dol.net  Mon Jul 14 03:27:07 2008
From: Joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 05:27:07 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Week
Message-ID: <487B1BEB.1060203@dol.net>

Donna & I will NOT be attending Speed Week this year. This has certainly 
been a hard decision to make. We are in the middle of an expansion 
project for the shop and two and a half weeks on the road at a critical 
time is not a good idea. Add to that the $3000+ for fuel plus motels, 
not counting the liquor bill, it just makes sense to pull the plug.

We are already missing all of our friends and the action. Donna was 
looking forward to driving the roadster again this year.

joe

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 07:35:42 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:35:42 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair Method..
In-Reply-To: <002d01c8e4fd$c77791a0$6501a8c0@Glens>
References: <487A1DDF.2060903@mayfco.com>
	<002d01c8e4fd$c77791a0$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W54D94831D24309A71432A1D98D0@phx.gbl>

     BUY USA

      YOUR 'economy' (or lack of...)  depends on it.

                   thank you  , ' Dirt Track Doug '
                   -------------------------- oooo
---------------------------
              Wise words from the ancients   -especially in light of America's
' troubles' :




                     VULGAS VULT DECEPI   - Phaedrus

                                           (  the (common)  people wish to be
deceived  )



> From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> To: drmayf at mayfco.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:33:09 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair Method..
>
> Mayf
> Check with Aircraft Spruce in chino Cal. In air craft there is a red sealant
> used for many applications. If you have a local airport they might have
> something that will work, BUY USA.
>
> Glen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:23 AM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair Method..
>
>
> > Yesterday after running the SUnbeam fora few minutes I noticed that it
> > was dumping out the wastegates port at idle. Since I have had some
> > issues with wastegates before I started isolating the problem. I found
> > it thankfully in only one of the gates. And fourtunately the easiest one
> > to remove. The diaphram that moves the valve open and closed has a small
> > hole in it. That releases the air from the bottom side to the top side
> > of the diaphram causing that one to be essentially stuck closed all the
> > time.. That same plumbing system controls the other unit as well.
> >
> > So the removed the offensive unit and tore into it. The piston inside
> > has a sharpmetal edge that did the evil deed as the vlve opened and
> > closed.  The real issue is that this is a chinese unit (yeah, I am a
> > cheap SOB, so get over it) and replacement parts are non existent. I
> > have ordered a couple more gates and they should be here in a week or so.
> >
> > The question is, do any of you have any iideas on how to repair a red
> > silicone material or know of any items like high temp tape that would
> > work to plug this small hole? If the darned this was made of rubber like
> > a bicycle inner tube, I would just use a patch on it. But is a silicone
> > material and hardly anything really sticks to it.  And this area gets
> > hot so it needs to be capable of around 500dF or so.
> >
> > I just need suggestions or methods to repair this, so don't get crazy
> > and tell me I am a dumb sh*t for buying this junk to begin with, yada,
> > yada...
> >
> > Any helpful ideas out there?
> >
> > mayf



_________________________________________________________________
Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger.
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From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 11:06:07 2008
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:06:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Week
In-Reply-To: <487B1BEB.1060203@dol.net>
Message-ID: <959111.67615.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Joe,
 
Sorry to hear that you have to miss it.  Gail and I will be missing for yet
another year, but we are proof that you can survive.  I sold my camaro at
Bonneville after running in 2003 and we were "SURE" that we would have a car
ready and be back in 2004.  We are still working out bugs on the new car!  We
plan to be back in 2009!  In the meantime, we'll see you at Maxton.
 
Dick J  #729
AC/GC

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Mon Jul 14 12:00:06 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:00:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair Method..
In-Reply-To: <487A1DDF.2060903@mayfco.com>
References: <487A1DDF.2060903@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <487B9426.8070307@wildblue.net>

Mayf,

I thought a high temp silicone gasket maker might be the answer. There 
are several
that will handle 6,000 degrees, intermittent.
http://www.repair-parts.com/PERMA008.HTM
http://www.permatex.com/
I would consider a call/email to Permatex.

Bryan
 
drmayf wrote:
> Yesterday after running the SUnbeam fora few minutes I noticed that it 
> was dumping out the wastegates port at idle. Since I have had some 
> issues with wastegates before I started isolating the problem. I found 
> it thankfully in only one of the gates. And fourtunately the easiest one 
> to remove. The diaphram that moves the valve open and closed has a small 
> hole in it. That releases the air from the bottom side to the top side 
> of the diaphram causing that one to be essentially stuck closed all the 
> time.. That same plumbing system controls the other unit as well. 
>
> So the removed the offensive unit and tore into it. The piston inside 
> has a sharpmetal edge that did the evil deed as the vlve opened and 
> closed.  The real issue is that this is a chinese unit (yeah, I am a 
> cheap SOB, so get over it) and replacement parts are non existent. I 
> have ordered a couple more gates and they should be here in a week or so.
>
> The question is, do any of you have any iideas on how to repair a red 
> silicone material or know of any items like high temp tape that would 
> work to plug this small hole? If the darned this was made of rubber like 
> a bicycle inner tube, I would just use a patch on it. But is a silicone 
> material and hardly anything really sticks to it.  And this area gets  
> hot so it needs to be capable of around 500dF or so.
>
> I just need suggestions or methods to repair this, so don't get crazy 
> and tell me I am a dumb sh*t for buying this junk to begin with, yada, 
> yada...
>
> Anh helpful ideas out there?
>
> mayf

From dlodom at charter.net  Mon Jul 14 14:32:08 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:32:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville entrys
Message-ID: <003801c8e5f0$b06ec3e0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

I noticed that there are 11 entrys from New Zealand coming to Speedweek and
zero from Australia. I thought there would be more from Australia because they
have not been able to run Lake Gairdner for 2 years. With the Aussie dollar
worth more every month the price is getting better for them.
Doug Odom in big ditch

From Ulrace at aol.com  Mon Jul 14 14:37:46 2008
From: Ulrace at aol.com (Ulrace at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:37:46 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Land-speed Digest, Vol 2, Issue 210
Message-ID: <cc1.3ab5e9c2.35ad131a@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/14/2008 2:04:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
land-speed-request at autox.team.net writes:

>  From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "LSR"  <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:23  AM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair  Method..
>
>
> > Yesterday after running the SUnbeam fora  few minutes I noticed that it
> > was dumping out the wastegates port  at idle. Since I have had some
> > issues with wastegates before I  started isolating the problem. I found
> > it thankfully in only one  of the gates. And fourtunately the easiest one
> > to remove. The  diaphram that moves the valve open and closed has a small
> > hole in  it. That releases the air from the bottom side to the top side
> > of  the diaphram causing that one to be essentially stuck closed all the
>  > time.. That same plumbing system controls the other unit as well.
>  >
> > So the removed the offensive unit and tore into it. The  piston inside
> > has a sharpmetal edge that did the evil deed as the  vlve opened and
> > closed.  The real issue is that this is a  chinese unit (yeah, I am a
> > cheap SOB, so get over it) and  replacement parts are non existent. I
> > have ordered a couple more  gates and they should be here in a week or so.
> >
> > The  question is, do any of you have any iideas on how to repair a red
> >  silicone material or know of any items like high temp tape that would
>  > work to plug this small hole? If the darned this was made of rubber  like
> > a bicycle inner tube, I would just use a patch on it. But is  a silicone
> > material and hardly anything really sticks to  it.  And this area gets
> > hot so it needs to be capable of  around 500dF or so.
> >
> > I just need suggestions or  methods to repair this, so don't get crazy
> > and tell me I am a  dumb sh*t for buying this junk to begin with, yada,
> >  yada...
> >
> > Any helpful ideas out there?
>  >
> > mayf





Use the red high temp silicone that the part store sells. It's made to seal  
catalytic convertors. We use it on headers all the time in place of gaskets.  
Worth a try. I've used it on jag carb diaphragms.
 
bob



**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music 
scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!      
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Jul 14 15:14:18 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:14:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Week
In-Reply-To: <487B1BEB.1060203@dol.net>
References: <487B1BEB.1060203@dol.net>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W4877B9EC20579518E02C61C98D0@phx.gbl>

Joe;

So sorry to hear about you and Donna's SW decision. But I totally understand
.Goodluck with the shop expansion. The good Lord willing and the levee don't
break ,there will be another time. Continued success at Maxton!Tom
ShannonMagna, Utah> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 05:27:07 -0400> From:
Joetimney at dol.net> To: land-speed at autox.team.net> Subject: [Land-speed] Speed
Week> > Donna & I will NOT be attending Speed Week this year. This has
certainly > been a hard decision to make. We are in the middle of an expansion
> project for the shop and two and a half weeks on the road at a critical >
time is not a good idea. Add to that the $3000+ for fuel plus motels, > not
counting the liquor bill, it just makes sense to pull the plug.> > We are
already missing all of our friends and the action. Donna was > looking forward
to driving the roadster again this year.> > joe>
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are
subscribed as saltfevr at q.com> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfever at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 16:15:45 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:15:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair Method..
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1215972002.31167.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <000e01c8e6c8$549b2300$6501a8c0@dim8100>

Hi Mayf:
Sorry about the delayed response. Don't know if you got it fixed yet. Delete
if redundant. Seeing Glen's response triggered another idea. Maybe this is
what Glen meant anyway. Piston aircraft use a material called baffle seal.
It serves to pressurize the incoming air in the engine compartment and
direct air around the cooling fins. It is not a liquid sealant but a
rubber-like material you can cut with scissors or a knife.  It is usually a
dark orange or red color. Don't know the temp rating but cylinder heads can
run 380C. I see there is an airpark in Pahrump. Don't know if they have
hangars but maybe a drive out there will expose a friendly neighbor working
on his plane in his garage/hanger. It is fairly thick (0.125"?) so may not
be the answer you are looking for. Here is the stuff from Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/baffling.html.   -Elon


Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:23:11 -0700
From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
 . . . The question is, do any of you have any iideas on how to repair a red

silicone material or know of any items like high temp tape that would
work to plug this small hole?

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:33:09 -0600
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Check with Aircraft Spruce in chino Cal. In air craft there is a red sealant

used for many applications. If you have a local airport they might have
something that will work, BUY USA.

From saltfever at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 16:23:14 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:23:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair Method..
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1215972002.31167.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <001101c8e6c9$5fe04f50$6501a8c0@dim8100>

Just thought of this. There is a tubular material called fire-seal that is
designed to slip over important lines in aircraft engine compartments. It is
a much thinner material than baffle seal and is far more flexible. Again, I
don't know the temp rating but it is used for fire-proofing gas fires within
time limits. Aeroquip used to be a source but I'm sure a call to Russell or
other hose manufactures will get a source. Also, maybe used equipment from
NASCAR recyclers will have it.   -Elon

From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Subject: [Land-speed] Need a Shade Tree Repair Method..
The question is, do any of you have any iideas on how to repair a red
silicone material or know of any items like high temp tape that would
work to plug this small hole?

From SCowle at mentorcollege.edu  Thu Jul 17 10:47:52 2008
From: SCowle at mentorcollege.edu (Scott Cowle)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:47:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] (possibly spam: 8.2593) Re: [ECTALSR] Re: Maxton's
	fastest...
In-Reply-To: <661222.90710.qm@web51901.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <661222.90710.qm@web51901.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <487F3F78020000380000811B@gw.mentorcollege.edu>

Hey Keith -I'm not slammin your grasshoppers - just respectin them cause
up here we 've got mosquitos the size of small birds- When they bite,
you faint from blood loss. Scott----- Original Message ----
From: Todd <narider at twinjugs.com>
To: ECTALSR at yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:30:15 AM
Subject: [ECTALSR] Re: Maxton's fastest...


Ya know, I'll bet we host some of the fastest grasshoppers there are 
(and they're hands over fists faster then anyone that's ever made a 
pass through the traps). Joe's probably one of the few in the world to

get to time them over the years (luckily for all of us, they never show

up at impound!).
I'll bet a swarm of them puppies can sure spoil some air and clog up 
some hiem joints in one of the flying bubbles huh Keith, lol?
Todd

> Don't you be slamming our Grasshoppers. ... we're proud of them 
buggers you know... Eh... especially when the helicopters have to give

way at the re-fueling points...
> 
> K

 


      

 
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Any review, use, or distribution or disclosure by others is 
strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, or
authorized to receive the information from the recipient, please
contact the sender by email and delete all copies of this message.
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From saltfever at comcast.net  Thu Jul 17 21:08:50 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:08:50 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
Message-ID: <002601c8e883$9a650290$6501a8c0@dim8100>

With the new Speedweek schedule, has the Sunday SaltTalks date been slipped?
I wonder why Jon has been so quiet since selling the business, building a
Motel, and new web site. He must have a lot of spare time on his hands!!
-Elon

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Jul 18 08:22:31 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 08:22:31 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
References: <002601c8e883$9a650290$6501a8c0@dim8100>
Message-ID: <000801c8e8e1$bd240840$6501a8c0@Glens>

Elon
Salt talk is Sunday8-18
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:08 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?


> With the new Speedweek schedule, has the Sunday SaltTalks date been 
> slipped?
> I wonder why Jon has been so quiet since selling the business, building a
> Motel, and new web site. He must have a lot of spare time on his hands!!
> -Elon
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> 


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From saltrat at pahrump.com  Fri Jul 18 10:42:56 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:42:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
In-Reply-To: <000801c8e8e1$bd240840$6501a8c0@Glens>
References: <002601c8e883$9a650290$6501a8c0@dim8100>
	<000801c8e8e1$bd240840$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <20080718164226.DE02818767B@autox.team.net>

UUUHHHH Sunday is 8-17 according to my calendar........
Skip





At 07:22 AM 7/18/2008, Glen Barrett wrote:
>Elon
>Salt talk is Sunday8-18
>Glen
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>
>To: "land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:08 PM
>Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
>
>
> > With the new Speedweek schedule, has the Sunday SaltTalks date been
> > slipped?
> > I wonder why Jon has been so quiet since selling the business, building a
> > Motel, and new web site. He must have a lot of spare time on his hands!!
> > -Elon
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> >
>
>
>--
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>
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>
>You are subscribed as saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Jul 18 10:51:31 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:51:31 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
References: <002601c8e883$9a650290$6501a8c0@dim8100>
	<000801c8e8e1$bd240840$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<05.E6.22116.808C0884@msysmta02.broadbandsupport.net>
Message-ID: <005401c8e8f6$8826eb70$6501a8c0@Glens>

Yeah I know, Mayf got all over me the 1st thing this morning, at least I got 
the right day, See you on the salt.
gb

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "Elon" 
<saltfever at comcast.net>; "land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?


>
> UUUHHHH Sunday is 8-17 according to my calendar........
> Skip
>
>
>
>
>
> At 07:22 AM 7/18/2008, Glen Barrett wrote:
>>Elon
>>Salt talk is Sunday8-18
>>Glen
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>
>>To: "land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:08 PM
>>Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
>>
>>
>> > With the new Speedweek schedule, has the Sunday SaltTalks date been
>> > slipped?
>> > I wonder why Jon has been so quiet since selling the business, building 
>> > a
>> > Motel, and new web site. He must have a lot of spare time on his 
>> > hands!!
>> > -Elon
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> >
>> > Land-speed mailing list
>> >
>> > You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>> >
>> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
>>It has removed 847 spam emails to date.
>>Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
>>Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>You are subscribed as saltrat at pahrump.com
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>
> 


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From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Fri Jul 18 11:36:30 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:36:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
In-Reply-To: <005401c8e8f6$8826eb70$6501a8c0@Glens>
References: <002601c8e883$9a650290$6501a8c0@dim8100>
	<000801c8e8e1$bd240840$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<05.E6.22116.808C0884@msysmta02.broadbandsupport.net>
	<005401c8e8f6$8826eb70$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <4880D49E.7010101@wildblue.net>

I like 8-18 for Sunday Glen. I'll see you there on Sunday no matter what 
the numbers are.
Bryan

Glen Barrett wrote:
> Yeah I know, Mayf got all over me the 1st thing this morning, at least I got 
> the right day, See you on the salt.
> gb
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
> To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "Elon" 
> <saltfever at comcast.net>; "land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
>
>
>   
>> UUUHHHH Sunday is 8-17 according to my calendar........
>> Skip
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 07:22 AM 7/18/2008, Glen Barrett wrote:
>>     
>>> Elon
>>> Salt talk is Sunday8-18
>>> Glen
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>
>>> To: "land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:08 PM
>>> Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> With the new Speedweek schedule, has the Sunday SaltTalks date been
>>>> slipped?
>>>> I wonder why Jon has been so quiet since selling the business, building 
>>>> a
>>>> Motel, and new web site. He must have a lot of spare time on his 
>>>> hands!!
>>>> -Elon
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> Land-speed mailing list
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>>>>
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> --
>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
>>> It has removed 847 spam emails to date.
>>> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Land-speed mailing list
>>>
>>> You are subscribed as saltrat at pahrump.com
>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Jul 18 11:43:56 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:43:56 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
References: <002601c8e883$9a650290$6501a8c0@dim8100>
	<000801c8e8e1$bd240840$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<05.E6.22116.808C0884@msysmta02.broadbandsupport.net>
	<005401c8e8f6$8826eb70$6501a8c0@Glens> <4880D49E.7010101@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <007501c8e8fd$db173400$6501a8c0@Glens>

Looking forward to it Bryan and others as well
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>; "land-speed submit" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?


>I like 8-18 for Sunday Glen. I'll see you there on Sunday no matter what 
>the numbers are.
> Bryan
>
> Glen Barrett wrote:
>> Yeah I know, Mayf got all over me the 1st thing this morning, at least I 
>> got the right day, See you on the salt.
>> gb
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
>> To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "Elon" 
>> <saltfever at comcast.net>; "land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
>>
>>
>>
>>> UUUHHHH Sunday is 8-17 according to my calendar........
>>> Skip
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 07:22 AM 7/18/2008, Glen Barrett wrote:
>>>
>>>> Elon
>>>> Salt talk is Sunday8-18
>>>> Glen
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:08 PM
>>>> Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> With the new Speedweek schedule, has the Sunday SaltTalks date been
>>>>> slipped?
>>>>> I wonder why Jon has been so quiet since selling the business, 
>>>>> building a
>>>>> Motel, and new web site. He must have a lot of spare time on his 
>>>>> hands!!
>>>>> -Elon
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Land-speed mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
>>>> It has removed 847 spam emails to date.
>>>> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
>>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> Land-speed mailing list
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed as saltrat at pahrump.com
>>>>
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> 


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From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Fri Jul 18 12:32:16 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:32:16 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
In-Reply-To: <005401c8e8f6$8826eb70$6501a8c0@Glens>
References: <002601c8e883$9a650290$6501a8c0@dim8100>
	<000801c8e8e1$bd240840$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<05.E6.22116.808C0884@msysmta02.broadbandsupport.net>
	<005401c8e8f6$8826eb70$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <A16E2CC2-F83A-40FE-82E6-8F4246A94B93@nancyandjon.org>

On Jul 18, 2008, at 12:51 PM, Glen Barrett wrote:

Yeah I know, Mayf got all over me the 1st thing this morning, at  
least I got
the right day, See you on the salt.
gb



My calendar says Sunday is the 17th of August this year.  And that's  
the day/date we're planning to hold Salt Talks.

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Jul 18 12:37:25 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:37:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
In-Reply-To: <A16E2CC2-F83A-40FE-82E6-8F4246A94B93@nancyandjon.org>
References: <002601c8e883$9a650290$6501a8c0@dim8100>
	<000801c8e8e1$bd240840$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<05.E6.22116.808C0884@msysmta02.broadbandsupport.net>
	<005401c8e8f6$8826eb70$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<A16E2CC2-F83A-40FE-82E6-8F4246A94B93@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <4880E2E5.5040905@mayfco.com>

Ok, Salt Talks are on Sunday the 17th.  You are going to miss a lot of 
people I suspect. That's first day for inspection etc.   Oh, I need a 
coupl eor three 3 x size shirts and a couple large. Got any?

mayf
Jon Wennerberg wrote:

>On Jul 18, 2008, at 12:51 PM, Glen Barrett wrote:
>
>Yeah I know, Mayf got all over me the 1st thing this morning, at  
>least I got
>the right day, See you on the salt.
>gb
>
>
>
>My calendar says Sunday is the 17th of August this year.  And that's  
>the day/date we're planning to hold Salt Talks.
>
>Jon , tall guy with moustache
>and two 200 MPH Club hats
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Fri Jul 18 13:05:57 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:05:57 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] SaltTalks ?
In-Reply-To: <4880E2E5.5040905@mayfco.com>
References: <002601c8e883$9a650290$6501a8c0@dim8100>
	<000801c8e8e1$bd240840$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<05.E6.22116.808C0884@msysmta02.broadbandsupport.net>
	<005401c8e8f6$8826eb70$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<A16E2CC2-F83A-40FE-82E6-8F4246A94B93@nancyandjon.org>
	<4880E2E5.5040905@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <677CEB71-BB77-441F-B76B-224B84438EA2@nancyandjon.org>

On Jul 18, 2008, at 2:37 PM, drmayf wrote:

Ok, Salt Talks are on Sunday the 17th.  You are going to miss a lot  
of people I suspect. That's first day for inspection etc.   Oh, I  
need a coupl eor three 3 x size shirts and a couple large. Got any?

mayf

May, and all:

I think we've got five 3XL and 10 2XL on order -- as well as a batch  
of XL and L.  I wonder if I should ask for a couple or three extra  
more of the 3XL...

As for missing some folks -- well, maybe -- but we hope not.  We were  
forced to experiment, what with the new dates for the event and tech  
and such.  Wednesday is still the 2 Club dinner, and Thursday is the  
Volunteer's dinner, and Tuesday is something else, and so we were  
left with Sunday or Monday.  We chose Sunday partly because we know  
for sure that we won't be in impound and looking forward to getting  
up really early after a long evening of festivities at Salt Talks.   
I've been publicizing the date for a few months -- and the worst  
that'll happen is that we do, indeed, miss enough folks (because of  
the date) that we'll try something different next time.  After all --  
it is a picnic for the fun of it - rather than an officially- 
sanctioned event.  We hope you'll (all) be able to be there.

Back to shirts -- I'll try once again to keep a list of shirts that  
are "reserved".  Such a list hasn't worked out too well in the past  
because it gets ignored - by whomever is selling the shirts at the  
party (not knowing that there is a list, that is) -- but I'll try  
once again.  Mayf wants 2 or is it 3 of the 3XL, and 2 of the L.   
Anybody else?  I know Pork Pie want some -- will have to look back  
and see how many of what size.  And - We've only ordered about 100  
this year.  We'll get more coming if I have enough demand for them  
ahead of time, so feel free to place your orders now.  Don't forget  
to get 'em, though -- I don't need too much unsold inventory lying  
about the place.

Later -

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Sat Jul 19 13:35:41 2008
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (JOHN SZALAY)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:35:41 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] New Email
Message-ID: <fc80d47e27b74.488209cd@insightbb.com>

 FWIW:

 My old e-mail address of john.szalay at att.net has been un-subscribed from the
LSR
list because of multiple bounced email issues ( their(AT&T) spam filters are
buggy and because of their failure to respond to repeated problems,  AND
because of major differences on usenet issues))

I've been a ATT.net user for almost 20 years, and up till now have lived with
their system
 its not perfect, but it was available everywhere.. but no longer.. I give
up..

I have resubscribed with my new ISP    insightbb.com

                jpszalay01 at insightbb.com 

lets see if they can do a better job..

    Good Luck on the Salt....
                                          John Szalay

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sat Jul 19 13:54:49 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:54:49 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] New Email
Message-ID: <c02.3d18bade.35b3a089@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/19/2008 3:36:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
jpszalay01 at insightbb.com writes:

I have  resubscribed with my new ISP    insightbb.com

_jpszalay01 at insightbb.com_ (mailto:jpszalay01 at insightbb.com)  
 
I Like it.....
 
Bob W, #343 2000 Honda Insight...lol






**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for 
FanHouse Fantasy Football today.      
(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 12:54:49 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:54:49 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <c33.32c68ce7.35b4e3f9@aol.com>

Being the car guy on my block, lately I've been getting involved in the  "how 
do I get better gas mileage" discussion at neighborhood gatherings. 
Besides the usual advice, we also kicked around the merit of going to a  
larger, as in taller, tire to effectively raise the final drive ratio for the  
longer legs.
I researched tire sizes and find that to get a perceptible mpg  difference,as 
in ten percent, the tire size and corresponding weight goes up  tremendously. 
Most of the taller tires are truck/SUV and E rated and heavy. 
I'm thinking the added sprung weight and cost of the tires might  neutralize 
any mpg added. Plus,the Speedpo/odo would read off, too. 
Yeah, I know, Duh ?
Bob W



**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for 
FanHouse Fantasy Football today.      
(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Sun Jul 20 15:36:05 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:36:05 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
References: <c33.32c68ce7.35b4e3f9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4883AFC5.00002E.03508@HOME>

My thinking on this is that altering from the engineered gearing will likely
result in no gain, or worse, a decrease in mileage. Some years ago, I had a
transmission tech that got involved with building an overdrive system (on my
time I might add). He eventually went into production. His primary market
was motor homes. He found that in many cases the mileage would improve for a
short time and then go back to the previous mileage. Computers have a
learning curve and will adjust themselves to do what they are designed to do
and quite often the engine is more efficient in a lower gear. Loaded engines
have lower vacuum and lower vacuum is a computer's signal for more fuel.
Todays' computers are even more sensitive to changes of inputs and some will
not tolerate changes in gearing, etc.

Each month, I write a short article for the local newspaper (an ad) and have
researched different ways to improve mileage and have seen references to
bigger, usually heavier wheels & tires resulting in decreased mileage. I
have cautioned people to be wary of mileage scams that are now rampant. I
have also decided to research some of the more promising "scams" by
investing in them myself and see what the results might be. I purchased the
Run your car on Water + Fuel" material; 104 pages of detailed instruction on
the construction of the device which looks to be something that will work,
but,  there are disclaimers warning about compatibility with computer
systems and what has to be done to make it work with them. Plus it is
probably illegal, at least in California. Most add-on devices are!

In the past, I have also doubted that the proposed 55 mph limits on vehicles
would be effective with todays more streamlined vehicles, but from material
I recently read about the throttle sensors now being used (no physical
connection between the throttle pedal and the fuel system) it seems that the
engineering is focused on 55 mph as the desired speed "sweet spot" for most
all vehicles. Having said all this, it appears that the most useful thing
you can do is to drive sensibly. Excessive use of heavy throttle and/or
braking is expensive.

Tom, (Hot & Smokey) Redding CA - 216 D/FCC

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From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Sun Jul 20 17:28:03 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:28:03 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <49819.1216596483@nancyandjon.org>

Here's my report:  On my '04 Duramax (4x4 GMC cab and a half, about 7700#)
I've run stock tires (LT245-75R16) and also
the next size bigger -- 265's.  I was in the habit of recording all fuel put
into the tank, as accurately as the pumps measured
it (readouts are down to the hundredth of a gallon).  I also recorded the
mileage on the odo as I put the fuel in.  So - I had a
record of the first 100,000 miles or so of fuel economy/use.  I also, by the
way, calibrated my odometer useing a GPS, so I'm
confident that the miles, as read off the odo times a small correction factor,
are correct.  I got various mileage depending on
the load and so on, but -- when I went to the larger tires and corrected the
odo for the slightly larger circumference of the
tires (they were about 3/4" taller, which'd come out about 2 1/4" more
circumference) -- my fuel economy went down.
Down by about 5% on average (for load and those other factors).  As soon as I
put the stock-size rubber on (new set of tires)
the economy went back to the original numbers.

The tires were of similar tread pattern, manufacturer, and so on, so I figure
that the difference was from the tire size.  Which
tells me that themanufacturer geared the truck for those size tires -- and
only those.

TYhat's what I found -- putting bigger tires on my truck cost me fuel, not
SAVED me fuel.  YRMV.

Jon

On Dom Jul 20 14:54 , BWANA343 at aol.com sent:

>Being the car guy on my block, lately I've been getting involved in the  "how
>do I get better gas mileage" discussion at neighborhood gatherings.
>Besides the usual advice, we also kicked around the merit of going to a
>larger, as in taller, tire to effectively raise the final drive ratio for the
>longer legs.
>I researched tire sizes and find that to get a perceptible mpg  difference,as
>in ten percent, the tire size and corresponding weight goes up  tremendously.
>Most of the taller tires are truck/SUV and E rated and heavy.
>I'm thinking the added sprung weight and cost of the tires might  neutralize
>any mpg added. Plus,the Speedpo/odo would read off, too.
>Yeah, I know, Duh ?
>Bob W
>
>
>
>FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
>(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair\?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun Jul 20 17:49:43 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:49:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <c33.32c68ce7.35b4e3f9@aol.com>
References: <c33.32c68ce7.35b4e3f9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004b01c8eac3$4b73c620$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Bob;

Just making sure their tires are inflated properly would save many folks a
few $. Most drivers only put air in the tires when they are very obviously
low on air pressure.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
BWANA343 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 11:55 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?

Being the car guy on my block, lately I've been getting involved in the
"how 
do I get better gas mileage" discussion at neighborhood gatherings. 
Besides the usual advice, we also kicked around the merit of going to a  
larger, as in taller, tire to effectively raise the final drive ratio for
the  
longer legs.
I researched tire sizes and find that to get a perceptible mpg
difference,as 
in ten percent, the tire size and corresponding weight goes up
tremendously. 
Most of the taller tires are truck/SUV and E rated and heavy. 
I'm thinking the added sprung weight and cost of the tires might  neutralize

any mpg added. Plus,the Speedpo/odo would read off, too. 
Yeah, I know, Duh ?
Bob W

From smsandimas at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 19:20:59 2008
From: smsandimas at earthlink.net (Steve Meierdiercks)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:20:59 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Milage,etc,non ls
Message-ID: <380-22008712112059284@earthlink.net>

List,. 
        Funny this discussion has turned to tires and mileage. A
friend,just today, sent me a question asking me about what I thought about
this unit.As most anybody else, the claims seem to be a little
inflated.Tom,would like to know if you have tested the hydro4000.It can be
found at www.hydro4000.com .If you have would like to know your thoughts
about this unit and if not, still would like know what you think.  Fancy
web site and news station also making big claims.Just seems to good to be
true.


Steve Meierdiercks
smsandimas at earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun Jul 20 19:33:53 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:33:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Milage,etc,non ls
In-Reply-To: <380-22008712112059284@earthlink.net>
References: <380-22008712112059284@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <007101c8ead1$d7cd4e80$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Steve;

Tell you friend to save his money-- P.T.Barnum was right.

This is simply electrolysis-- Chemistry 101 stuff wrapped in a slick
marketing effort. Take a glass of water, put in two metal electrodes, add a
small amount of acid to make the water conductive and put some DC current
through the electrodes. Voila! Oxygen & Hydrogen. You don't get more energy
out of the gas products than you put in in electricity. 

The price of gas is bringing out all sorts of snake oil products designed to
prey on the gullible.

Sorry, there's no such thing as a free lunch either. :)

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Steve Meierdiercks
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 6:21 PM
To: landspeed list
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Milage,etc,non ls

List,. 
        Funny this discussion has turned to tires and mileage. A
friend,just today, sent me a question asking me about what I thought about
this unit.As most anybody else, the claims seem to be a little
inflated.Tom,would like to know if you have tested the hydro4000.It can be
found at www.hydro4000.com .If you have would like to know your thoughts
about this unit and if not, still would like know what you think.  Fancy
web site and news station also making big claims.Just seems to good to be
true.


Steve Meierdiercks
smsandimas at earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 20:55:53 2008
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:55:53 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Milage,etc,non ls
References: <380-22008712112059284@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c8eadd$51318150$2101a8c0@WinXP>

List;

Generating Hydrogen by electrolysis of water using alternator output then
feeding the Hydrogen back into the engine is a looser efficiency-wise, so
those gadgets are scams.

As a result of a discussion with Mayf months ago, I did an analysis of that
kind of "topping cycle" --I'll glad to send a copy off-list to anyone who
wants it.

Lance

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Meierdiercks" <smsandimas at earthlink.net>
To: "landspeed list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:20 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Milage,etc,non ls


> List,.
>        Funny this discussion has turned to tires and mileage. A
> friend,just today, sent me a question asking me about what I thought about
> this unit.As most anybody else, the claims seem to be a little
> inflated.Tom,would like to know if you have tested the hydro4000.It can be
> found at www.hydro4000.com .If you have would like to know your thoughts
> about this unit and if not, still would like know what you think.  Fancy
> web site and news station also making big claims.Just seems to good to be
> true.
>
>
> Steve Meierdiercks
> smsandimas at earthlink.net

From ed at vetteracing.com  Sun Jul 20 22:32:48 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:32:48 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <W1420023313311401216614768@webmail16>

As for the 55 mph speed limit, there is no singlesweet spot as the gearing
varies from car to car. I made a 6000 milecoast to coast trip in my vette -
never re-setting the avg. MPG button- and got 30 mpg. In 6th gear, at 85 mph,
it was turning 1700 rpm. Togo 55 mph, I would have had to drop 2 gears at
least and would probablyturned more RPM..... I dare a Prius to try to get 30
MPG across Texas,air on, (radar detector on) at 85 MPH! As I recall, whenthey
passed the 55 MPH limit in the 70's. the big rigs got worse fueleconomy
because they had to drop 2 or more gears to comply, which putthem out of their
optimum operating range. As Tom mentions, thereis no substitute for prudent
driving.....
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Bryant [mailto:saltracer at awwwsome.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 02:36 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net, BWANA343 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?

My thinking on this is that altering from the engineered gearing will
likelyresult in no gain, or worse, a decrease in mileage. Some years ago, I
had atransmission tech that got involved with building an overdrive system (on
mytime I might add). He eventually went into production. His primary marketwas
motor homes. He found that in many cases the mileage would improve for ashort
time and then go back to the previous mileage. Computers have alearning curve
and will adjust themselves to do what they are designed to doand quite often
the engine is more efficient in a lower gear. Loaded engineshave lower vacuum
and lower vacuum is a computer's signal for more fuel.Todays' computers are
even more sensitive to changes of inputs and some willnot tolerate changes in
gearing, etc.Each month, I write a short article for the local newspaper (an
ad) and haveresearched different ways to improve mileage and have seen
references tobigger, usually heavier wheels & tires resulting in decreased
mileage. Ihave cautioned people to be wary of mileage scams that are now
rampant. Ihave also decided to research some of the more promising "scams"
byinvesting in them myself and see what the results might be. I purchased
theRun your car on Water + Fuel" material; 104 pages of detailed instruction
onthe construction of the device which looks to be something that will
work,but, there are disclaimers warning about compatibility with
computersystems and what has to be done to make it work with them. Plus it
isprobably illegal, at least in California. Most add-on devices are!In the
past, I have also doubted that the proposed 55 mph limits on vehicleswould be
effective with todays more streamlined vehicles, but from materialI recently
read about the throttle sensors now being used (no physicalconnection between
the throttle pedal and the fuel system) it seems that theengineering is
focused on 55 mph as the desired speed "sweet spot" for mostall vehicles.
Having said all this, it appears that the most useful thingyou can do is to
drive sensibly. Excessive use of heavy throttle and/orbraking is
expensive.Tom, (Hot & Smokey) Redding CA - 216 D/FCC

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Sun Jul 20 22:55:27 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:55:27 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Milage,etc,non ls
References: <380-22008712112059284@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <488416BE.000013.01668@HOME>

Steve,

I think that most of these add-ons, although they may work, they  may costs,
but similar devices run $1000 or more. Supposing that they do give a boost
to mileage, it still takes quite a time to recoup the price.no you notice, I
called them a "scam". It is still interesting to see what is out there. As
in most things of nature, you can't change one thing without creating
another issue to deal with. What I propose to due is get some facts on these
devices that can deter others from getting caught up in something they RI
11lly can't afforee66?
-------Original Message-------

From: Steve Meierdiercks
Date: 7/20/2008 6:21:23 PM
To: landspeed list
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Milage,etc,non ls

List,.
        Funny this discussion has turned to tires and mileage. A
friend,just today, sent me a question asking me about what I thought about
this unit.As most anybody else, the claims seem to be a little
inflated.Tom,would like to know if you have tested the hydro4000.It can be
found at www.hydro4000.com .If you have would like to know your thoughts
about this unit and if not, still would like know what you think.  Fancy
web site and news station also making big claims.Just seems to good to be
true.


Steve Meierdiercks
smsandimas at earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as saltracer at awwwsome.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1563 - Release Date: 7/20/2008
12:59 PM


.

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From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Jul 20 23:03:18 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:03:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <W1420023313311401216614768@webmail16>
Message-ID: <20080721010318.4GN9Z.63448.imail@fed1rmwml14>

The "SECRET" to good fuel economy is get in the higest gear possible and "STAY" there---I ordered my 1/2 ton truck with 4.10 gears---why---with my 30%  OD  it spend more time in OD---most vech. trans will shift back and forth under normal driving---mine hardly shifts ouyt of OD after I am at speed---ie. over 60---most GM trucks have 3.08-3.42 or 3.73s---Tires play a big part.---ie FDR---Final Drive Ratio 

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Jul 21 10:31:34 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:31:34 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
References: <W1420023313311401216614768@webmail16>
Message-ID: <4884B9E5.000019.03400@D3DP98F1>

Ed,

I don't doubt that what you say is correct. There are always exceptions. I
don't claim to be a "Rocket Scientist",  I was referring to a July 2007
article from  Motors Magazine by Mike Dale, "Meddle With the Pedal:
Electronic Throttle Control." This article was part of recent Instructor
Training that I attended for the CA Smog Program.

Quote.."Given normal gearing, the peak efficiency point for a vehicle turns
out to be around 55 mph. The double-nickel speed limit was not chosen
randomly, but rather with an eye to best results for fuel economy for the
average vehicle. For a given distance traveled, fuel economy tapers off at
both higher and lower speeds. Holding a constant speed is an advantage, as
it avoids both the extra fuel needed for acceleration and the increased
emissions that often result from deceleration.

Not surprisingly, the sweet spot of engine efficiency is also the sweet spot
for emissions output."....This is a very interesting article that can be
found on line by going to http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1179

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

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From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Jul 21 10:33:42 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:33:42 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Milage,etc,non ls
References: <380-22008712112059284@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4884BA66.00001F.03400@D3DP98F1>

I just read my post from last night. I guess  my sleeping pill was beginning
to work. Sorry about all the grammatically gibberish! My conclusion is these
gimmicks are not worth the cost.

As Neil says, "Sorry, there's no such thing as a free lunch either."

Tom, Redding CA  - #216 D/FCC

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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Jul 21 13:01:13 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:01:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <4884B9E5.000019.03400@D3DP98F1>
References: <W1420023313311401216614768@webmail16>
	<4884B9E5.000019.03400@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <4884DCF9.6040808@mayfco.com>

Tom, Ed, all..
not withstanding what Tom quoted, My towncar gets far better millage at 
75-80 mph than it does at 55 or 65.  I went to Texas recently for a 
family reunion and the average speed between there and return here, 
including the low speed in town driving there was 70 mph and the fuel 
mileage was 26.5 mpg.  Not as good as Ed's  'vette but then again I have 
a sofa on wheels. To me the issue revolves around the torque peak of the 
motor. as that is where the best BSFC comes in (isn't that right, Dave?) 
so riding  near that is best for millage provided the motor has the 
beans at that speed to pull the gears and against aero and rolling 
resistance forces.  So many factors need to be taken into account.  I 
drove back from LA one weekend and there was a tail wind of about 25 
mph...my mpg shot up to 33 mpg just from not  having to fight that small 
amount of wind.  I never use the cruise control because it is always 
applying the throttle up and down and each time enriching the fuel. So I 
drive level up hill and foot off and coast down as long as my speed is 
near the peak. of engine efficiency.



mayf
Tom Bryant wrote:

>Ed,
>
>I don't doubt that what you say is correct. There are always exceptions. I
>don't claim to be a "Rocket Scientist",  I was referring to a July 2007
>article from  Motors Magazine by Mike Dale, "Meddle With the Pedal:
>Electronic Throttle Control." This article was part of recent Instructor
>Training that I attended for the CA Smog Program.
>
>Quote.."Given normal gearing, the peak efficiency point for a vehicle turns
>out to be around 55 mph. The double-nickel speed limit was not chosen
>randomly, but rather with an eye to best results for fuel economy for the
>average vehicle. For a given distance traveled, fuel economy tapers off at
>both higher and lower speeds. Holding a constant speed is an advantage, as
>it avoids both the extra fuel needed for acceleration and the increased
>emissions that often result from deceleration.
>
>Not surprisingly, the sweet spot of engine efficiency is also the sweet spot
>for emissions output."....This is a very interesting article that can be
>found on line by going to http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1179
>
>Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Jul 21 13:12:02 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:12:02 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <4884DCF9.6040808@mayfco.com>
References: <W1420023313311401216614768@webmail16>
	<4884B9E5.000019.03400@D3DP98F1> <4884DCF9.6040808@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4BF6E7BA-EE8E-445C-BDE3-7F49E463FB03@nancyandjon.org>

On Jul 21, 2008, at 3:01 PM, drmayf wrote:

Tom, Ed, all..


mayf



Speaking to something that Ed mentioned a few posts ago -- the fuel  
computer display built into the dashboard.  On my '04 GMC pickup  
there's one of the computers, and I've checked the accuracy -- only  
to find it's a bit generous (when compared to my figuring of fuel  
economy).  A couple of mpg too generous, in fact.  The 'puter might  
show 25.4 mpg on a road trip -- and when I figure the number of  
gallons burned and the number of miles driven (using the readouts  
from the fuel stations and the corrected mileage shown on the  
odometer ) I'll get something like 23.9 mpg.  These numbers are close  
to the real world for me -- I do get mid-20's in my big pickup -- but  
the computer shows even better.

I drive at or below posted speed limits 99% of the time, use the  
cruise control as much as is possible, and don't do jackrabbit starts  
-- all of which contribute to good mileage.  Again -- YMMV.

Jon Wennerberg

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Jul 21 13:29:05 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:29:05 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <4BF6E7BA-EE8E-445C-BDE3-7F49E463FB03@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB1582DE@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Vee-hickle:  97 MKVIII LSC  (that means the short 3.27 gears) 4.6 4valve
motor, 4 speed AOD, a little bigger than mustang sized and heavy. 70 mph
is about 2100rpm.

This bugly car has two mileage modes: accumulated and instantaneous.
According to the book, the mileage is figured by flow - I checked the
first tank and it was within +/- 1 mpg fwiw.

I have learned that cruise control is about 2-4 mpg LESS than my foot
(barring any fun)

Last trip: 1100 miles round trip Durango (6600') to Las Vegas (1800') -
going "down" to vegas into the wind (70mph) 29 mpg.  Coming up to
durango with the wind = 30 mpg.  I believe in the flats w/ no wind @
60mph I could achieve 35 mpg!

It is interesting to watch the instantaneous readout while driving (no
cell phone or text thingie to play with) - very often I can back out of
the throttle, maintain speed and pick up 2-4 mpg!  Of course eventually
I lose momentum though . . .

Note: good to see the posts with documented results.

David, waiting for just one more "jackrabbit" start! (4mpg)

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Jon Wennerberg
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 1:12 PM
To: DR MAYF; land-speed submit
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?

On Jul 21, 2008, at 3:01 PM, drmayf wrote:

Tom, Ed, all..


mayf



Speaking to something that Ed mentioned a few posts ago -- the fuel
computer display built into the dashboard.  On my '04 GMC pickup
there's one of the computers, and I've checked the accuracy -- only
to find it's a bit generous (when compared to my figuring of fuel
economy).  A couple of mpg too generous, in fact.  The 'puter might
show 25.4 mpg on a road trip -- and when I figure the number of
gallons burned and the number of miles driven (using the readouts
from the fuel stations and the corrected mileage shown on the
odometer ) I'll get something like 23.9 mpg.  These numbers are close
to the real world for me -- I do get mid-20's in my big pickup -- but
the computer shows even better.

I drive at or below posted speed limits 99% of the time, use the
cruise control as much as is possible, and don't do jackrabbit starts
-- all of which contribute to good mileage.  Again -- YMMV.

Jon Wennerberg
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Jul 21 13:31:20 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:31:20 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <4BF6E7BA-EE8E-445C-BDE3-7F49E463FB03@nancyandjon.org>
References: <W1420023313311401216614768@webmail16><4884B9E5.000019.03400@D3DP98F1>
	<4884DCF9.6040808@mayfco.com>
	<4BF6E7BA-EE8E-445C-BDE3-7F49E463FB03@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <010f01c8eb68$607a40d0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Jon;

Mileage computers are best viewed with suspicion. Our Chrysler 300M computes
its mileage based on total fuel usage during the miles driven since the
computer was reset. This is what one would expect.

My reasonably new Dodge 2500 diesel mileage computer is apparently
programmed to compute a "rolling average" rather than the way the Chrysler
does it. Who knows what algorithm Dodge used to get that rolling average--
Kalman filtering, maybe? This rolling average makes this computer of dubious
worth. You only know what the average mileage was over some unknown time
period-- BFD.

I wonder why two Chrysler products can't compute fuel mileage the same way?

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Jon Wennerberg
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:12 PM
To: DR MAYF; land-speed submit
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?

On Jul 21, 2008, at 3:01 PM, drmayf wrote:

Tom, Ed, all..


mayf



Speaking to something that Ed mentioned a few posts ago -- the fuel  
computer display built into the dashboard.  On my '04 GMC pickup  
there's one of the computers, and I've checked the accuracy -- only  
to find it's a bit generous (when compared to my figuring of fuel  
economy).  A couple of mpg too generous, in fact.  The 'puter might  
show 25.4 mpg on a road trip -- and when I figure the number of  
gallons burned and the number of miles driven (using the readouts  
from the fuel stations and the corrected mileage shown on the  
odometer ) I'll get something like 23.9 mpg.  These numbers are close  
to the real world for me -- I do get mid-20's in my big pickup -- but  
the computer shows even better.

I drive at or below posted speed limits 99% of the time, use the  
cruise control as much as is possible, and don't do jackrabbit starts  
-- all of which contribute to good mileage.  Again -- YMMV.

Jon Wennerberg

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Jul 21 13:39:57 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:39:57 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <010f01c8eb68$607a40d0$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB1582DF@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

My ford product is reset-able for mileage, trip, oil change, blinker
fluid, muffler bearings, etc.

Accurate? Don't know.
Repeatable: seems good.

As stated, mileage is figured on fuel flow.  ???

YMMV ( hahahahaha)

David

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of neil at dbelltech.com
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 1:31 PM
To: 'Jon Wennerberg'; 'DR MAYF'; 'land-speed submit'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?

Jon;

Mileage computers are best viewed with suspicion. Our Chrysler 300M
computes
its mileage based on total fuel usage during the miles driven since the
computer was reset. This is what one would expect.

My reasonably new Dodge 2500 diesel mileage computer is apparently
programmed to compute a "rolling average" rather than the way the
Chrysler
does it. Who knows what algorithm Dodge used to get that rolling
average--
Kalman filtering, maybe? This rolling average makes this computer of
dubious
worth. You only know what the average mileage was over some unknown time
period-- BFD.

I wonder why two Chrysler products can't compute fuel mileage the same
way?

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of
Jon Wennerberg
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:12 PM
To: DR MAYF; land-speed submit
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?

On Jul 21, 2008, at 3:01 PM, drmayf wrote:

Tom, Ed, all..


mayf



Speaking to something that Ed mentioned a few posts ago -- the fuel
computer display built into the dashboard.  On my '04 GMC pickup
there's one of the computers, and I've checked the accuracy -- only
to find it's a bit generous (when compared to my figuring of fuel
economy).  A couple of mpg too generous, in fact.  The 'puter might
show 25.4 mpg on a road trip -- and when I figure the number of
gallons burned and the number of miles driven (using the readouts
from the fuel stations and the corrected mileage shown on the
odometer ) I'll get something like 23.9 mpg.  These numbers are close
to the real world for me -- I do get mid-20's in my big pickup -- but
the computer shows even better.

I drive at or below posted speed limits 99% of the time, use the
cruise control as much as is possible, and don't do jackrabbit starts
-- all of which contribute to good mileage.  Again -- YMMV.

Jon Wennerberg
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Jul 21 13:45:55 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:45:55 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
References: <W1420023313311401216614768@webmail16>
	<4884B9E5.000019.03400@D3DP98F1> <4884DCF9.6040808@mayfco.com>
	<4BF6E7BA-EE8E-445C-BDE3-7F49E463FB03@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <4884E773.000013.01044@D3DP98F1>

My Firebird Trans Am does not have these creature comforts such as mileage
calculators (my GMC does), but I keep an accurate record of fuel used and
miles traveled. I don't drive at 55 mph except to get to 70 or 75 mph where
I cruise. In general it is 17-18 mpg around town and 26+ on the highway. I
can't tell you what it is a 55 mph because I would rather get a little less
mileage and get there in a timely manner. I have been regurgitating what I
have read, which is speaking more of smaller engines and cars, not from
actual experience.

 I do not support the government telling us to drive 55 mph. Truck (three
axles or more)speed limits in CA is 55 mph. I generally towed at 70 mph with
my open trailer, but found with the enclosed trailer, anything over 60 mph
rapidly reduced mileage. Things may have changed, but I know some nationwide
trucking companies used to pay their drivers bonuses for keeping to the 55
mph speeds so I would assume that there is fuel savings to do that. Again
every vehicle has its optimum efficiency speed so there is not a blanket
statement that applies to all. I do know that just as at Bonneville, over
gearing will reduce performance.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: Jon Wennerberg
Date: 07/21/08 12:12:31
To: DR MAYF;  land-speed submit
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?

On Jul 21, 2008, at 3:01 PM, drmayf wrote:

Tom, Ed, all..


mayf

Speaking to something that Ed mentioned a few posts ago -- the fuel
computer display built into the dashboard.  On my '04 GMC pickup
there's one of the computers, and I've checked the accuracy -- only
to find it's a bit generous (when compared to my figuring of fuel
economy).  A couple of mpg too generous, in fact.  The 'puter might
show 25.4 mpg on a road trip -- and when I figure the number of
gallons burned and the number of miles driven (using the readouts
from the fuel stations and the corrected mileage shown on the
odometer ) I'll get something like 23.9 mpg.  These numbers are close
to the real world for me -- I do get mid-20's in my big pickup -- but
the computer shows even better.

I drive at or below posted speed limits 99% of the time, use the
cruise control as much as is possible, and don't do jackrabbit starts
-- all of which contribute to good mileage.  Again -- YMMV.

Jon Wennerberg

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of cat_side_en.gif]

From ed at vetteracing.com  Mon Jul 21 14:11:14 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:11:14 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <W6960820866168391216671074@webmail17>

The article was a good read Tom, thanks for passing iton. I am not an engineer
(or rocket scientist.... heck, I didn't evenstay at a Holiday Inn last night)
and it was written at a level thateven I could understand ;-) I didn't
understand the author'sdefinition of "normal gearing" however, as my vehicles
are geared allover the board, from my tow vehicle to the Corvette, which was
designedas a high-speed touring car. Likewise, I have numerous
transmissions(both automatic and manual) , some including overdrives, and some
witha 1:1 final drive ratio. My personal experience is thatperformance and
mileage are all over the board (as I would expect). Ithink "normal" is a poor
choice of words as vehicle application variesgreatly. No argument about
judicious use of the throttle..... Mydiesel tow vehicle gets several MPG
better mileage at 65 than 75....and 60 is even better if I could stand to go
that slow. I have no doubtthat on a level surface, 55 mph would yield better
mileage, especiallygiven the load I am pulling . I didn't understand the
author'sassertion that diesels do not hqve a throttle... unless he is usingit
in a different context than I - as a means of regulatingengine speed. As for
gages... my truck's "averageMPG" gage reads the opposite than slim's.... It is
very pessimistic,and I find i actually get better mileage. However, the
"gallons used"gage is very accurate. With an 84 gallon capacity, I find it is
usuallyoff less than a gallon at fillup.
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Bryant [mailto:saltracer at awwwsome.com]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 09:31 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net, BWANA343 at aol.com, 'Ed Van Scoy'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?

Ed,

I don't doubt that what you say is correct. There are alwaysexceptions. I
don't claim to be a "Rocket Scientist", I wasreferring to a July 2007 article
from Motors Magazineby Mike Dale, "Meddle With the Pedal: Electronic
ThrottleControl." This article was part of recent Instructor Training that
Iattended for the CA Smog Program.

Quote.."Given normal gearing, the peak efficiency point for avehicle turns out
to be around 55 mph. The double-nickel speed limitwas not chosen randomly, but
rather with an eye to best results forfuel economy for the average vehicle.
For a givendistance traveled, fuel economy tapers off at both higher and
lowerspeeds. Holding a constant speed is an advantage, as it avoids both
theextra fuel needed for acceleration and the increased emissions thatoften
result from deceleration.

Not surprisingly, the sweet spot of engine efficiency is also thesweet spot
for emissions output."....This is a very interesting articlethat can be found
on line by going to http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1179

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of cat_side_en.gif]

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Jul 21 14:18:53 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:18:53 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <W6960820866168391216671074@webmail17>
References: <W6960820866168391216671074@webmail17>
Message-ID: <240EA9B7-B31F-42C6-A249-9E44C2B05A1C@nancyandjon.org>

On Jul 21, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:
  I didn't understand the
author'sassertion that diesels do not hqve a throttle... unless he is  
usingit
in a different context than I - as a means of regulatingengine speed.
Ed

----


Well, maybe he meant that they don't have a butterfly in the venturi  
-- no throttle plate, so to speak.

And, Ed -- if your mileage computer shows lower than real life --  
that only adds fuel to the discussion that the things aren't all that  
accurate.  I don't read the gallons used readout too much -- save  
that I've learned to watch the gauge carefully when it's getting  
low.  If the low-fuel light comes on and the doing-doing thing makes  
it's sound -- Nancy goes into panic mode that we're about to run out  
of fuel and be stranded in the middle of BF Egypt.  I try to have the  
"miles left 'til we're on fumes" number ready to respond to her fears!

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From ed at vetteracing.com  Mon Jul 21 14:23:34 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:23:34 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <W7161011661220261216671814@webmail30>

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wennerberg [mailto:jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 01:18 PM
To: 'Ed Van Scoy', 'land-speed submit'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?


On Jul 21, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:
 I didn't understand the
author'sassertion that diesels do not hqve a throttle... unless he is usingit
in a different context than I - as a means of regulatingengine speed.
Ed


----





Well, maybe he meant that they don't have a butterfly in the venturi -- no
throttle plate, so to speak.

Well, that is sort of what I think he means, but something has to control the
injectors.....



And,Ed -- if your mileage computer shows lower than real life -- that onlyadds
fuel to the discussion that the things aren't all thataccurate. I don't read
the gallons used readout too much -- savethat I've learned to watch the gauge
carefully when it's gettinglow. If the low-fuel light comes on and the
doing-doing thingmakes it's sound -- Nancy goes into panic mode that we're
about to runout of fuel and be stranded in the middle of BF Egypt. I try
tohave the "miles left 'til we're on fumes" number ready to respond toher
fears!

That is exactly why I carry a 5 gal jug of fuelin the trailer! I have been
stuck in BF Egypt, and it's not all that"Arabian Nights" makes it out to be
;-)
Ed


Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Jul 21 14:27:21 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:27:21 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <W7161011661220261216671814@webmail30>
References: <W7161011661220261216671814@webmail30>
Message-ID: <EE0E13FE-E8C3-4211-BD9B-719E20BD014A@nancyandjon.org>

On Jul 21, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:


----


Well, maybe he meant that they don't have a butterfly in the venturi  
-- no throttle plate, so to speak.

Well, that is sort of what I think he means, but something has to  
control the injectors.....

It's a big rheostat on my truck -- nothing but a volume control, so  
to speak, that tells the computer that I want to go faster (or  
slower) and the computer does the rest by adjusting injector timing/ 
volume and stuff like that.  Drive - by - wire comes to Detroit.


And, Ed -- if your mileage computer shows lower than real life --  
that only adds fuel to the discussion that the things aren't all that  
accurate.  I don't read the gallons used readout too much -- save  
that I've learned to watch the gauge carefully when it's getting  
low.  If the low-fuel light comes on and the doing-doing thing makes  
it's sound -- Nancy goes into panic mode that we're about to run out  
of fuel and be stranded in the middle of BF Egypt.  I try to have the  
"miles left 'til we're on fumes" number ready to respond to her fears!

That is exactly why I carry a 5 gal jug of fuel in the trailer! I  
have been stuck in BF Egypt, and it's not all that "Arabian Nights"  
makes it out to be ;-)

Yeah, the 5-gallon jug rides in the back of our rig, too.  We ran the  
tank dry once -- in Chillicothe, Ohio, as we were pulling into the  
fuel station.  What a bugger of a time trying to restart, even  
following instructions.  Tip the jug and life stays a lot better.
Ed

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From ed at vetteracing.com  Mon Jul 21 14:32:02 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:32:02 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <W7219021305304001216672322@webmail17>

Pour the jug in BEFORE you run out of fuel Jon!! Heck, the instructions are
right on the bottom of the jug! Yeah,the "prime" thing is no fun.... every
time I change a fuel filter Iwear out my thumb.
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wennerberg [mailto:jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 01:27 PM
To: 'Ed Van Scoy'
Cc: 'land-speed submit'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?


On Jul 21, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:


----





Well, maybe he meant that they don't have a butterfly in the venturi -- no
throttle plate, so to speak.

Well, that is sort of what I think he means, but something has to control the
injectors.....



It'sa big rheostat on my truck -- nothing but a volume control, so tospeak,
that tells the computer that I want to go faster (or slower) andthe computer
does the rest by adjusting injector timing/volume andstuff like that. Drive -
by - wire comes to Detroit.




And,Ed -- if your mileage computer shows lower than real life -- that onlyadds
fuel to the discussion that the things aren't all thataccurate. I don't read
the gallons used readout too much -- savethat I've learned to watch the gauge
carefully when it's gettinglow. If the low-fuel light comes on and the
doing-doing thingmakes it's sound -- Nancy goes into panic mode that we're
about to runout of fuel and be stranded in the middle of BF Egypt. I try
tohave the "miles left 'til we're on fumes" number ready to respond toher
fears!

That is exactly why Icarry a 5 gal jug of fuel in the trailer! I have been
stuck in BFEgypt, and it's not all that "Arabian Nights" makes it out to be
;-)


Yeah,the 5-gallon jug rides in the back of our rig, too. We ran thetank dry
once -- in Chillicothe, Ohio, as we were pulling into the fuelstation. What a
bugger of a time trying to restart, evenfollowing instructions. Tip the jug
and life stays a lot better.
 Ed


Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From advo at comcast.net  Mon Jul 21 15:42:20 2008
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:42:20 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] rental cars
Message-ID: <C4AA6CEC.1C6E%advo@comcast.net>

Let's suppose that one wanted to rent a car in Salt Lake City and drive it
on the salt back and forth to the pits during speed week....
Are any rental cars available these days that will not report GPS
coordinates back to the company, letting them know that you have been
"off-road"?

Thanks
Greg
#4594
Salt2Salt racing team

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Jul 21 15:51:12 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:51:12 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
References: <W7161011661220261216671814@webmail30>
Message-ID: <488504D0.000004.00420@D3DP98F1>

 That is correct Jon, what he is referring to is that a diesel does not have
the throttle blades that interfere with air flow. The diesel does obviously
use a throttle, but it regulates fuel.

Tom

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of cat_side_en.gif]

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 16:17:30 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:17:30 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <19017220.1216678650484.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I would guess he really meant "accelerator pump" which is the real waster of fuel in carburater equipment vehicles.

>
>
>On Jul 21, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:
> I didn't understand the
>author'sassertion that diesels do not hqve a throttle... unless he is usingit
>in a different context than I - as a means of regulatingengine speed.
>Ed

>Well, maybe he meant that they don't have a butterfly in the venturi -- no
>throttle plate, so to speak.
>
>Well, that is sort of what I think he means, but something has to control the
>injectors.....

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Jul 21 16:55:37 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:55:37 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] rental cars
In-Reply-To: <C4AA6CEC.1C6E%advo@comcast.net>
References: <C4AA6CEC.1C6E%advo@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <09415A74-6381-4A38-98F8-17CA11E7761A@nancyandjon.org>

On Jul 21, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Greg Meyers wrote:

Let's suppose that one wanted to rent a car in Salt Lake City and  
drive it
on the salt back and forth to the pits during speed week....
Are any rental cars available these days that will not report GPS
coordinates back to the company, letting them know that you have been
"off-road"?

Thanks
Greg
#4594
Salt2Salt racing team



Yes, sort of.  That is, rent from Rent a Wreck in SLC.  They don't  
mind if their rentals go on the salt, although they do ask you to take  
the worst of it off before you turn the car in.  However -- I've heard  
that they're just about sold out for SpeedWeek, so call now if that's  
when you're thinking of renting.  Anyway -- Tony, the manager, races  
at Bonneville and understands our needs and wants.

Regards,


      Jon Wennerberg
Tall guy with moustache
and a pair of 2 Club hats

From mike_lackey at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 17:07:37 2008
From: mike_lackey at yahoo.com (Mike Lackey)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:07:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <213352.37980.qm@web30004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

----- Original Message ----
From: Jon Wennerberg
<jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org>
To: Ed Van Scoy <ed at vetteracing.com>;
land-speed submit <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008
1:18:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?

On Jul 21,
2008, at 4:11 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:
  I didn't understand the
author'sassertion that diesels do not hqve a throttle... unless he is 
usingit
in a different context than I - as a means of regulatingengine speed.
Ed

----


Well, maybe he meant that they don't have a butterfly in the
venturi  
-- no throttle plate, so to speak.


That's precisely what he was
getting at.  Technically a "Throttle" is a valve which restricts fluid flow. 
On a gas engine, the throttle is the butterfly valve that restricts the air
flowing into the engine, which then creates a vacuum behind it.  Diesels do
not have this, and it is not correct to call the injectors or anything
controlling the injectors a "Throttle".  
A pedal controlling a throttle can
also be called a throttle, but again, it wouldn't be correct to call the pedal
in a diesel automobile a "Throttle".  "Accelerator" would be a better term.
Mike

From jdincau at qnet.com  Mon Jul 21 17:10:52 2008
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:10:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <19017220.1216678650484.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <19017220.1216678650484.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BBA544CB4759453D91D7AA0D1030BFD7@denpc>

     In 2006 I tried an experiment with my 2004 Dodge 2500 long bed crew cab 
diesel with a 3.70 rear a camper shell and stock tires. Not towing anything 
but with the back full:
Palmdale to Wendover at 55 MPH, 22 MPG.
Wendover to Palmdale at 5 MPH over the limit, 17 MPG.
Same route both ways through Bishop, Tonopah and Ely, calculated by miles 
traveled and fuel pumped. Pushing all that air is expensive. My brother 
wants to know if we are going to try 45 this year. I am not that patient, 
although in the past with some of the rigs we have had 45 MPH would have 
been flat out.
Jim

From jdincau at qnet.com  Mon Jul 21 17:14:31 2008
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:14:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <213352.37980.qm@web30004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <213352.37980.qm@web30004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C2A6F8422580484E9AF9E6A06F7D15CE@denpc>

     I don't know, I think we are splitting hairs here. The pedal controls 
the flow be it air, electricity, fuel or steam and I believe the term 
throttle is applicable.
Jim 

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Jul 21 17:43:29 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:43:29 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] rental cars
In-Reply-To: <C4AA6CEC.1C6E%advo@comcast.net>
References: <C4AA6CEC.1C6E%advo@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W178AC287764A1B5AA0BEB8C98A0@phx.gbl>

Greg;

Thats been brought up many times here. Search the archives for Rent-A -Wreck
in SLC. He's a deuce guy and very salt friendly. Several headed for Bville
have already booked with Tony. Good luck, cya on the salt!Tom ShannonMagna,
Utah> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:42:20 -0500> From: advo at comcast.net> To:
land-speed at autox.team.net> Subject: [Land-speed] rental cars> > Let's suppose
that one wanted to rent a car in Salt Lake City and drive it> on the salt back
and forth to the pits during speed week....> Are any rental cars available
these days that will not report GPS> coordinates back to the company, letting
them know that you have been> "off-road"?> > Thanks> Greg> #4594> Salt2Salt
racing team> _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are
subscribed as saltfevr at q.com> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From mike_lackey at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 18:44:24 2008
From: mike_lackey at yahoo.com (Mike Lackey)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <976759.3570.qm@web30005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Well, I see it as a fundamental difference between the two engine cycles.  In
a diesel engine, you have the same mass of air at a given RPM regardless of
the position of your pedal.  No power is wasted by creating a vacuum in the
intake manifold (AKA Throttling losses).  Several companies are currently
investigating methods of eliminating the need for a throttle in a gasoline
engine.  The common way I've read about is a sort of Diesel/Otto cycle hybrid
called HCCI.  GM and Mercedes both have functional prototypes.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/222168/vauxhall_vectra_22
_hcci.html
Mike

----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Dincau
<jdincau at qnet.com>
To: land-speed submit <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent:
Monday, July 21, 2008 4:14:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed]
Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?

    I don't know, I think we are splitting hairs
here. The pedal controls 
the flow be it air, electricity, fuel or steam and I
believe the term 
throttle is applicable.
Jim
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net 
http://www.team.net/donate.html

Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed
as mike_lackey at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Mon Jul 21 22:32:32 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:32:32 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <002001c8ebb3$f5b2fac0$466a2544@john>

" No power is wasted by creating a vacuum in the intake manifold (AKA 
Throttling losses). "

During the intake stroke it takes 60+ pounds to pull a 4" piston down 
against 10" of vacuum .

John 

From kturk at ala.net  Tue Jul 22 02:27:22 2008
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:27:22 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Brown Gas?
References: <002001c8ebb3$f5b2fac0$466a2544@john>
Message-ID: <001f01c8ebd4$c494f670$6500a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

I was at a buddies race shop the other day and one of his customers had 
build this system.... they were playing with it... and showed me how the 
bubbles would catch fire and pop.... actually had some fairly healthy noise 
going on...

So truth or non truth... it was at least interesting...

K 

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Jul 22 07:20:31 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:20:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
References: <002001c8ebb3$f5b2fac0$466a2544@john>
Message-ID: <001101c8ebfd$ba647c60$6501a8c0@S>

John -- I never thought about that.  But thinking just a bit further,  you
get part of that energy less the friction losses back in the first stage of
the power stroke until the cylinder pressure rises to the same level as the
crankcase pressure.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?


> " No power is wasted by creating a vacuum in the intake manifold (AKA
> Throttling losses). "
> During the intake stroke it takes 60+ pounds to pull a 4" piston down
> against 10" of vacuum .
> John

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Tue Jul 22 08:07:29 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:07:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <001101c8ebfd$ba647c60$6501a8c0@S>
References: <002001c8ebb3$f5b2fac0$466a2544@john>
	<001101c8ebfd$ba647c60$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <4885E9A1.3010103@wildblue.net>

Cars in Europe designed to be extra high MPG vehicles, all use CVT 
transmissions
so they can do what Mayf said while cruising, keep the engine at min 
BSFC. They
also use low rolling resistance tires which are available in the US, but 
the sizes are
very limited.

How about an Opal 1.9L TDI four. In a small sport coupe it will get 51 
MPG at
70mph on the A-4 with two people on board and AC on. It is governor limited
to 145mph because of the tires.

An HCCI engine running gas or whatever will do better, some day.  60-70 
MPG. 
Later when the camshaft is discarded and each valve is controlled 
separately, we'll
have 2.0L engines that will deliver 100 MPG in a 3,000 lb car that seats 
4 6'2" adults.
Max HP with the correct fuel will be 400 HP.
Probably in 20 years, 10 if cheap oil does go away.
They will have to keep the engine very small to make room for all of the 
Engine
Management Computers and the 10KW alternator. :-)

Bryan

From NT788 at comcast.net  Tue Jul 22 09:14:25 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:14:25 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
Message-ID: <072220081514.7266.4885F95100038C6A00001C622215578674C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Lets all save gas Then the price will go up! 
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
> My Firebird Trans Am does not have these creature comforts such as mileage
> calculators (my GMC does), but I keep an accurate record of fuel used and
> miles traveled. I don't drive at 55 mph except to get to 70 or 75 mph where
> I cruise. In general it is 17-18 mpg around town and 26+ on the highway. I
> can't tell you what it is a 55 mph because I would rather get a little less
> mileage and get there in a timely manner. I have been regurgitating what I
> have read, which is speaking more of smaller engines and cars, not from
> actual experience.
> 
>  I do not support the government telling us to drive 55 mph. Truck (three
> axles or more)speed limits in CA is 55 mph. I generally towed at 70 mph with
> my open trailer, but found with the enclosed trailer, anything over 60 mph
> rapidly reduced mileage. Things may have changed, but I know some nationwide
> trucking companies used to pay their drivers bonuses for keeping to the 55
> mph speeds so I would assume that there is fuel savings to do that. Again
> every vehicle has its optimum efficiency speed so there is not a blanket
> statement that applies to all. I do know that just as at Bonneville, over
> gearing will reduce performance.
> 
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
> 
> -------Original Message-------
> 
> From: Jon Wennerberg
> Date: 07/21/08 12:12:31
> To: DR MAYF;  land-speed submit
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
> 
> On Jul 21, 2008, at 3:01 PM, drmayf wrote:
> 
> Tom, Ed, all..
> 
> 
> mayf
> 
> Speaking to something that Ed mentioned a few posts ago -- the fuel
> computer display built into the dashboard.  On my '04 GMC pickup
> there's one of the computers, and I've checked the accuracy -- only
> to find it's a bit generous (when compared to my figuring of fuel
> economy).  A couple of mpg too generous, in fact.  The 'puter might
> show 25.4 mpg on a road trip -- and when I figure the number of
> gallons burned and the number of miles driven (using the readouts
> from the fuel stations and the corrected mileage shown on the
> odometer ) I'll get something like 23.9 mpg.  These numbers are close
> to the real world for me -- I do get mid-20's in my big pickup -- but
> the computer shows even better.
> 
> I drive at or below posted speed limits 99% of the time, use the
> cruise control as much as is possible, and don't do jackrabbit starts
> -- all of which contribute to good mileage.  Again -- YMMV.
> 
> Jon Wennerberg
> 
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> faint_grain.jpg]
> 
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 
> cat_side_en.gif]
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Jul 22 09:40:41 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:40:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <072220081514.7266.4885F95100038C6A00001C622215578674C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
References: <072220081514.7266.4885F95100038C6A00001C622215578674C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4885FF79.3050500@mayfco.com>

Jack! How ya been! You know this is a kinda funny issue. We are told 
that gas prices are up because of suppy and demand issues. And I guesss 
it is sorta true. Thw world demand is is but they really only want 
topump a certain amount. That raises price. But here in the states we 
apparently have all the product we need. There are no  long lines, no 
shoving and yealling at the pumps, etc. And Jack, I think you are right. 
If we cut back on fuel, then more fuel will go to th eother countries. 
That will make a real shortage here and the prices will go up.  They say 
drill for more oil. Ok, but what will the price for that oil be? It wont 
be 20 bucks a barrel for sure. Funny, but it will be near the current 
price of oil. Just like today, does anybody think that all those wells 
that are pumping away here in the US are selling their product for 
cheap? Not on your life, lol. They are charging nearly the same amounts 
as the mid east oil. Less the usual discount for heavy crude vs light 
sweet crude.  If wqe drill and get more oil, that oil will be sold to 
the foreigh countries and we wil lstill be short, lol.  This is a no win 
end game. What needs to happen is some form of fuel that is readily 
available and will never run out. And has no by products to deal with. 
Electricity? Maybe, if it comes from wind. NAt Gas? No, as it has by 
products that pollute the environment. Hydrogen? No because it is a 
stroage medium. Aalcohol? Naw, it also produces by products 
(aldehydes).. Algae? Maybe, this is workable for a short term fix but it 
also produces by products.

And none of it will ever be cheap again. Trust me on that?

Mayf
NT788 at comcast.net wrote:

>Lets all save gas Then the price will go up! 
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
>  
>
>>My Firebird Trans Am does not have these creature comforts such as mileage
>>calculators (my GMC does), but I keep an accurate record of fuel used and
>>miles traveled. I don't drive at 55 mph except to get to 70 or 75 mph where
>>I cruise. In general it is 17-18 mpg around town and 26+ on the highway. I
>>can't tell you what it is a 55 mph because I would rather get a little less
>>mileage and get there in a timely manner. I have been regurgitating what I
>>have read, which is speaking more of smaller engines and cars, not from
>>actual experience.

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Tue Jul 22 10:08:47 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:08:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <4885FF79.3050500@mayfco.com>
References: <072220081514.7266.4885F95100038C6A00001C622215578674C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
	<4885FF79.3050500@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4886060F.4040105@wildblue.net>

What is happening now is exactly what Admiral Rickover said would happen
in 1957, so it shouldn't be a surprise to us.
OBTW  Pres. Carter, a good Navy Submarine boy, got his energy ideas from 
his Admiral.

Bryan



drmayf wrote:
> Jack! How ya been! You know this is a kinda funny issue. We are told 
> that gas prices are up because of suppy and demand issues. And I guesss 
> it is sorta true. Thw world demand is is but they really only want 
> topump a certain amount. That raises price. But here in the states we 
> apparently have all the product we need. There are no  long lines, no 
> shoving and yealling at the pumps, etc. And Jack, I think you are right. 
> If we cut back on fuel, then more fuel will go to th eother countries. 
> That will make a real shortage here and the prices will go up.  They say 
> drill for more oil. Ok, but what will the price for that oil be? It wont 
> be 20 bucks a barrel for sure. Funny, but it will be near the current 
> price of oil. Just like today, does anybody think that all those wells 
> that are pumping away here in the US are selling their product for 
> cheap? Not on your life, lol. They are charging nearly the same amounts 
> as the mid east oil. Less the usual discount for heavy crude vs light 
> sweet crude.  If wqe drill and get more oil, that oil will be sold to 
> the foreigh countries and we wil lstill be short, lol.  This is a no win 
> end game. What needs to happen is some form of fuel that is readily 
> available and will never run out. And has no by products to deal with. 
> Electricity? Maybe, if it comes from wind. NAt Gas? No, as it has by 
> products that pollute the environment. Hydrogen? No because it is a 
> stroage medium. Aalcohol? Naw, it also produces by products 
> (aldehydes).. Algae? Maybe, this is workable for a short term fix but it 
> also produces by products.
>
> And none of it will ever be cheap again. Trust me on that?
>
> Mayf

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Jul 22 10:32:48 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:32:48 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <4886060F.4040105@wildblue.net>
References: <072220081514.7266.4885F95100038C6A00001C622215578674C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net><4885FF79.3050500@mayfco.com>
	<4886060F.4040105@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <B37316A1F4E94DA9BC89DF86D828E2A2@DaveSatellite>

Drilling does no good we have no refineries.. The NIMBY problem with where 
to put  them and the same for some nuclear reactors that we do need for 
electric power.. Oh NIMBY= Not In My Back Yard....
Dave 

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Tue Jul 22 10:40:54 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:40:54 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <B37316A1F4E94DA9BC89DF86D828E2A2@DaveSatellite>
References: <072220081514.7266.4885F95100038C6A00001C622215578674C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net><4885FF79.3050500@mayfco.com>
	<4886060F.4040105@wildblue.net>
	<B37316A1F4E94DA9BC89DF86D828E2A2@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <0670F4E3-096B-44DC-99F9-147A2DEA9813@nancyandjon.org>

On Jul 22, 2008, at 12:32 PM, Dave Dahlgren wrote:

Drilling does no good we have no refineries.. The NIMBY problem with  
where
to put  them and the same for some nuclear reactors that we do need for
electric power.. Oh NIMBY= Not In My Back Yard....
Dave



Yes, no spare/unused capacity at existing refineries -- and no new  
ones built in many years, no new ones on the books, either.

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From jauguston at msn.com  Tue Jul 22 11:23:12 2008
From: jauguston at msn.com (Jim Auguston)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:23:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
Message-ID: <BAY105-DS457AEEA251E5B8FB65A6BAF850@phx.gbl>

I am a lurker here but I have to comment on the often said story that there
haven't been any new refineries built for (fill in a number) years.

I worked as a construction crane operator for 40+ years and spent a lot of
those years working in the four refineries here in Northwest Washington.

Each of those refineries are refining approximately four times the number of
barrels of crude oil per day as they did when they were built. There is the
equivalent of 12 new refineries inside those four. Not new locations-true-but
new refining capacity.

Jim

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Jul 22 11:45:44 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:45:44 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DS457AEEA251E5B8FB65A6BAF850@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-DS457AEEA251E5B8FB65A6BAF850@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1D3DBB054C5D4BC193DFCA785959DF36@DaveSatellite>

I had understood and possibly wrong though that all the refineries in the 
USA are running in the 95% range of capacity due the loss of capacity after 
the gulf coast losses from Katrina.
dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Auguston" <jauguston at msn.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:23 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries


>I am a lurker here but I have to comment on the often said story that there
> haven't been any new refineries built for (fill in a number) years.
>
> I worked as a construction crane operator for 40+ years and spent a lot of
> those years working in the four refineries here in Northwest Washington.
>
> Each of those refineries are refining approximately four times the number 
> of
> barrels of crude oil per day as they did when they were built. There is 
> the
> equivalent of 12 new refineries inside those four. Not new 
> locations-true-but
> new refining capacity.
>
> Jim

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Tue Jul 22 11:58:12 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:58:12 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <1D3DBB054C5D4BC193DFCA785959DF36@DaveSatellite>
References: <BAY105-DS457AEEA251E5B8FB65A6BAF850@phx.gbl>
	<1D3DBB054C5D4BC193DFCA785959DF36@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <0C9D2249-CB16-437E-B6AA-78594FBE29FC@nancyandjon.org>

On Jul 22, 2008, at 1:45 PM, Dave Dahlgren wrote:

I had understood and possibly wrong though that all the refineries in  
the
USA are running in the 95% range of capacity due the loss of capacity  
after
the gulf coast losses from Katrina.
dave


I'll claim the same ignorance as Dave did -- I made my statement  
based on what I read in the Economist and Business week, both of  
which I had (note the past tense) faith in to present accurate  
information.  I will repeat, though, that new or upgraded -- they're  
running just about flat out and don't have much spare capacity left  
over.

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Jul 22 12:15:58 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:15:58 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <0C9D2249-CB16-437E-B6AA-78594FBE29FC@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB1582E9@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

We aren't believing everything we read in the press or hear on TV, are
we?

The three most common lies heard in (pick your state):
1) I won this belt buckle at the rodeo;
b) My pickup is paid for;
3) I was just trying to help that sheep over the fence.

David in Durango, yes I have a 300mph pickup - I must have left the
timing slip in my tuxedo

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Jon Wennerberg
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 11:58 AM
To: Dave Dahlgren
Cc: lsr list autox
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No new Refineries

On Jul 22, 2008, at 1:45 PM, Dave Dahlgren wrote:

I had understood and possibly wrong though that all the refineries in
the
USA are running in the 95% range of capacity due the loss of capacity
after
the gulf coast losses from Katrina.
dave


I'll claim the same ignorance as Dave did -- I made my statement
based on what I read in the Economist and Business week, both of
which I had (note the past tense) faith in to present accurate
information.  I will repeat, though, that new or upgraded -- they're
running just about flat out and don't have much spare capacity left
over.

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 22 13:21:43 2008
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:21:43 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
References: <BAY105-DS457AEEA251E5B8FB65A6BAF850@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001501c8ec30$33e992f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

This thread raises some thoughts:

If existing refineries are capable of meeting the present demand for oil 
products and gasoline and we consider the following over the next 20 years:

--- the government is mandating increases in replacement ethanol and 
biofuels

--- conservation due to price is reducing demand

--- over that 20 year span, we'll see plug-in hybrids and maybe fully 
electric cars

--- natural gas could replace some gasoline as a transportation fuel (the 
Boone Pickens scheme)

Given all of the above, how can an oil company justify a brand new ~ $1 
billion investment in a new refinery to their shareholders when that 
investment is probably a looser ?

The occasional talk about nationalizing refineries reminds me of another 
Rickover experience--at one point the government / congress insisted that 
Rickover build a nuke sub in a government shipyard instead of the usual 
privately owned shipyards. The result was the Thresher which sunk during 
it's sea trials and killed Navy and Westinghouse people due to defects in 
the silver soldering of the condenser cooling water pipe joints.

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Auguston" <jauguston at msn.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:23 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries


>I am a lurker here but I have to comment on the often said story that there
> haven't been any new refineries built for (fill in a number) years.
>
> I worked as a construction crane operator for 40+ years and spent a lot of
> those years working in the four refineries here in Northwest Washington.
>
> Each of those refineries are refining approximately four times the number 
> of
> barrels of crude oil per day as they did when they were built. There is 
> the
> equivalent of 12 new refineries inside those four. Not new 
> locations-true-but
> new refining capacity.
>
> Jim

From jauguston at msn.com  Tue Jul 22 14:21:03 2008
From: jauguston at msn.com (Jim Auguston)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:21:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] no new Refineries
Message-ID: <BAY105-DS521D7EAF6DBB73CC58655AF850@phx.gbl>

My point in posting what I did was to address the specific statement that you
hear over and over that there haven't been any new refineries built for (fill
in a number) years. By the slimmest of margins that statement can be said to
be true. The problem is the statement is used for political purposes and is
pretty much meaningless when you understand the amount of increased capacity
that is continuously being built in all the plants around the country. It is
far easier to increase capacity in existing plants than it is to build a new
plant from the ground up.

From bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Tue Jul 22 14:39:58 2008
From: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:39:58 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Milage
Message-ID: <072220082039.11916.4886459E000BE74800002E8C22068246939C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>

I did some arithmetic and compared the result of driving 75 mph and using 15 mpg verses driving 60 and getting 22 mpg. The time differential is worth about $25 per hour.
My Dad use to quote a distant family member when a car passed him at speed, "Everybody's in a big hurry to get someplace and sit on their ass."

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Tue Jul 22 14:52:12 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:52:12 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
References: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB1582E9@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <4886487C.000028.00516@D3DP98F1>

Ok, since I am basically ready to go racing, I'll sign in on this. First, I
take the unpopular position that the oil companies are not to blame. Yes
they have had good profits, but when compared to many other industries, not
obscene. These are public owned entities so many people are being rewarded
by the profitability.  A few years ago, when they were struggling, I didn't
hear a cry for someone to help them. The talk of nationalization of oil is
scary! Taxing them is also not the answer. Corporations don't pay taxes, the
consumer does. It is just added to the price of the product.

Secondly, if we produce more oil that increases supply which will, I believe
 lower prices once the supply surpasses the demand. Just the possibility
that there will be new trouble
In the Mid-East sends oil prices up. And you may have noticed the increased
talk of offshore drilling has sent prices down. More proof that the
speculation has an effect on the price of oil.

Thirdly, the price of gas is not because of lack of refinery capacity. As
has been mentioned, refineries are constantly being upgraded and becoming
more efficient. That doesn't mean that we should not be building more,
however.

And finally, energy research is ongoing, some things are promising and
others are not cost effective energy wise. The electric automobiles on the
horizon sound good, but more electric cars impact electrical generation,
then what. Ethanol from corn is not the answer, its not efficient and
impacts food prices. The most promising thing I have heard lately is the
algae farming. http://www.usatoday
com/tech/science/2006-01-10-algae-powerplants_x.htm and there are many more
sites.

I could go on for ever here, but the point is, I believe, if given the
unfettered opportunity to step outside the box and use their inguenuity,
private business will solve the problem. The best thing that government can
do is get out of the way! Just my humble opinion.


Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

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From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Tue Jul 22 14:59:44 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:59:44 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
References: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB1582E9@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<4886487C.000028.00516@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <48864A40.00002B.00516@D3DP98F1>

For some reason the link did not go through I'll try again. Just goggle
algae farming" will give you lots to look at.

 Http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-01-10-algae-powerplants_x.htm

Tom

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From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Tue Jul 22 16:53:02 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:53:02 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
References: <256061.32486.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <488664CE.000019.01668@D3DP98F1>

Joel,

I said my position was not popular...all you have to do is pick up a paper
or tune into the news and this is what you hear. What isn't taken into
account is the massive investment and volume of $'s the oil companies handle
 My sources say that there is about ten cents profit in a gallon of gasoline
 Government taxes are at least triple that in most states. The feds also
collected $30 billion in taxes on Exxon's profits.

According to the financial report on MSN, XOM (Exxon Mobil) earned net
profits of 9.7% of sales, in the last 12 months. Healthy, but hardly
alarming. Intel netted 17.3% of sales. Microsoft netted 28.3%. Profitable
companies employ people...that's good news.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC



-------Original Message-------

From: Joel Wolcott
Date: 07/22/08 14:13:59
To: Tom Bryant
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No new Refineries

Exxon Mobil makes more than $10 billion
No. 1 U.S. oil company earns $1,318 a second - topping forecasts - but comes
in just shy of a record.
By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney.com staff writer
July 27 2006: 4:27 PM EDT


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Profits at Exxon Mobil surged 36 percent to a
near record $10.4 billion in the second quarter as surging oil prices helped
the world's largest publicly traded company soundly beat Wall Street
forecasts.
The company's profit - which amounts to a cool $1,318 a second - is the
second biggest ever reported by a U.S. company, behind only the $10.7
billion Exxon itself earned in the fourth quarter of 2005.

Exxon Mobil Profit Sets Record Again
Published: February 1, 2008
By any measure, Exxon Mobil"s performance last year was a blowout.
The company reported Friday that it beat its own record for the highest
profits ever recorded by any company, with net income rising 3 percent to
$40.6 billion, thanks to surging oil prices. The company"s sales, more than
$404 billion, exceeded the gross domestic product of 120 countries.
Exxon Mobil earned more than $1,287 of profit for every second of 2007.
The company also had its most profitable quarter ever. It said net income
rose 14 percent, to $11.7 billion, or $2.13 a share, in the last three
months of the year. The company handily beat analysts" expectations of $1.95
a share, after missing targets in the last two quarters.

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From jdincau at qnet.com  Tue Jul 22 17:02:39 2008
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:02:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <488664CE.000019.01668@D3DP98F1>
References: <256061.32486.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<488664CE.000019.01668@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <0C6CE7C3B68C4BC0AC564D14AA9695FD@denpc>

     How about this for a new law. You can't trade in commodity futures 
unless you actually take delivery of the product. That should slow the oil 
speculators down.
Jim 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Jul 22 17:08:48 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:08:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Paul Stanley
Message-ID: <012001c8ec4f$e67aacf0$6501a8c0@Glens>

Just heard from Dan Warner that long time Bonneville and El Mirage racer Paul
Stanley passed away yesterday. Member of the El Mirage 200 mph club, and for
many years president of the Sidewinder car club.
God Speed Paul

--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 907 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Tue Jul 22 17:54:12 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:54:12 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <0C6CE7C3B68C4BC0AC564D14AA9695FD@denpc>
References: <256061.32486.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<488664CE.000019.01668@D3DP98F1>
	<0C6CE7C3B68C4BC0AC564D14AA9695FD@denpc>
Message-ID: <DCFEF606-A81A-4980-BEBF-0B47F04DAFF7@nancyandjon.org>

On Jul 22, 2008, at 7:02 PM, Jim Dincau wrote:

     How about this for a new law. You can't trade in commodity futures
unless you actually take delivery of the product. That should slow the  
oil
speculators down.
Jim


That's exactly what the deal was (for oil) until the current Bush  
administration was elected.  Before then it always was that only those  
that actually took delivery of the oil could buy and sell futures.   
Thanks, George...


       Jon Wennerberg
Tall guy with moustache
and a pair of 2 Club hats

From vintagethunder at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 19:25:06 2008
From: vintagethunder at hotmail.com (Udo Horn)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:25:06 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <DCFEF606-A81A-4980-BEBF-0B47F04DAFF7@nancyandjon.org>
References: <256061.32486.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<488664CE.000019.01668@D3DP98F1> 
	<0C6CE7C3B68C4BC0AC564D14AA9695FD@denpc> 
	<DCFEF606-A81A-4980-BEBF-0B47F04DAFF7@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <BAY136-W197BBBE8FE4597EB275699DD840@phx.gbl>

Get it right....."The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000" (CFMA)
H.R.4541  June 14, 2000.  Thank Mr. Clinton> From:
jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org> To: jdincau at qnet.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008
19:54:12 -0400> CC: land-speed at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No
new Refineries> > On Jul 22, 2008, at 7:02 PM, Jim Dincau wrote:> > How about
this for a new law. You can't trade in commodity futures> unless you actually
take delivery of the product. That should slow the > oil> speculators down.>
Jim> > > That's exactly what the deal was (for oil) until the current Bush >
administration was elected. Before then it always was that only those > that
actually took delivery of the oil could buy and sell futures. > Thanks,
George...> > > Jon Wennerberg> Tall guy with moustache> and a pair of 2 Club
hats> _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are
subscribed as vintagethunder at hotmail.com> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
_________________________________________________________________
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_fami
ly_safety_072008

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Jul 22 22:30:14 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 0:30:14 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires,Mileage,etc/non LSR ?
In-Reply-To: <B37316A1F4E94DA9BC89DF86D828E2A2@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <20080723003014.NKK1Q.83661.imail@fed1rmwml14>

In france if you live within a given distance of a Nuke power plant you get free elect. forever---- build one on the golf course next door with that condition---I would love it!!!!!!!!!!

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Jul 22 22:31:10 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:31:10 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
Message-ID: <W8732431559212371216787470@webmail20>

The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 or CFMA (Public Law 106?554,
?1(a)(5) [H.R. 5660], December 21, 2000, 114 Stat. 2763, 2763A?365, 7 U.S.C. ?
1), was passed by the United States Congress and signed by President Bill
Clinton in December 2000 in large part to allow for the creation of U.S.
exchanges for the listing of a new sort of derivative security, the
single-stock future.

Ain't sayin' it's right or wrong, but here's the origin. (per Wikipedia)
Ed


-----Original Message-----
From: Udo Horn [mailto:vintagethunder at hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 06:25 PM
To: 'Jon Wennerberg', 'Jim Dincau'
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No new Refineries

Get it right....."The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000"
(CFMA)H.R.4541 June 14, 2000. Thank Mr. Clinton>
From:jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org> To: jdincau at qnet.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul
200819:54:12 -0400> CC: land-speed at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Land-speed]
Nonew Refineries> > On Jul 22, 2008, at 7:02 PM, Jim Dincau wrote:> > How
aboutthis for a new law. You can't trade in commodity futures> unless you
actuallytake delivery of the product. That should slow the > oil> speculators
down.>Jim> > > That's exactly what the deal was (for oil) until the current
Bush >administration was elected. Before then it always was that only those >
thatactually took delivery of the oil could buy and sell futures. >
Thanks,George...> > > Jon Wennerberg> Tall guy with moustache> and a pair of 2
Clubhats>

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Jul 22 22:31:58 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:31:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DS457AEEA251E5B8FB65A6BAF850@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20080723003158.2565A.83676.imail@fed1rmwml14>

Jim that is true at nearly everyone!



---- Jim Auguston <jauguston at msn.com> wrote: 
> I am a lurker here but I have to comment on the often said story that there
> haven't been any new refineries built for (fill in a number) years.
> 
> I worked as a construction crane operator for 40+ years and spent a lot of
> those years working in the four refineries here in Northwest Washington.
> 
> Each of those refineries are refining approximately four times the number of
> barrels of crude oil per day as they did when they were built. There is the
> equivalent of 12 new refineries inside those four. Not new locations-true-but
> new refining capacity.
> 
> Jim
> ___

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Jul 22 22:40:39 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:40:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Thresher
In-Reply-To: <001501c8ec30$33e992f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <20080723004040.LPVHT.83748.imail@fed1rmwml14>

Lance---I from what I "heard" thre was a bad design of the emergency blow  system---when the air went though the vale orfice when they tried to emergency blow the tanks-it iced up from the pressure drop---relulting in no emergency assent


---- joseph lance <jolylance at earthlink.net> wrote: 
> This thread raises some thoughts:

From gneimeyer at apex2000.net  Tue Jul 22 23:19:47 2008
From: gneimeyer at apex2000.net (Glenn Neimeyer)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:19:47 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Thresher
References: <20080723004040.LPVHT.83748.imail@fed1rmwml14>
Message-ID: <007b01c8ec83$b99f60c0$6402a8c0@userd94de66577>

  Several changes were put in place which became the "Subsafe " requirement 
for future boat construction in the sixties. I was assigned to her sister 
ship the Barb, SSN-596, from ' 74 - '77 (Refit/overhaul, new core, initial 
sea trials, first WestPac). I could have gone aboard Thresher and found my 
way blindfolded anywhere aft of frame 52 ( the Nuc half of the boat).

Glenn in West Texas
"Submarines are the only boats the Navy owns"
MM2 (SS)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
To: "Jim Auguston" <jauguston at msn.com>; "joseph lance" 
<jolylance at earthlink.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 11:40 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Thresher


> Lance---I from what I "heard" thre was a bad design of the emergency blow 
> system---when the air went though the vale orfice when they tried to 
> emergency blow the tanks-it iced up from the pressure drop---relulting in 
> no emergency assent

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Jul 23 08:13:17 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:13:17 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
Message-ID: <c99.2ddb6b45.35b8967d@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/23/2008 12:31:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
ed at vetteracing.com writes:

The  Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 or CFMA (Public Law  106?554,
?1(a)(5) [H.R. 5660], December 21, 2000, 114 Stat. 2763,  2763A?365, 7 U.S.C. 
?
Getting back to my original question (tires,remember?)..............
Thank You All for your input, it was educating and entertaining. 
Bottom line, keep your tires well inflated, drive at the right speed for  
your vehicle which is probably a LOT slower than you do now. Improvements might  
include upgrading to lower resistance tires when applicable, using synthetic 
oil  in engine and possibly trans, breathing; air cleaner and exhaust , and  
Diesel guys have chips to explore. Did I cover everything ? 
A comment on the skyrocketing popularity of used veggie oil for the  diesels, 
until recently a throw away from restaurants. There's been a few  instances 
of people being caught locally actually stealing by siphoning the gunk  from 
storage tanks behind the kitchens. Yuck.
BOB W



**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for 
FanHouse Fantasy Football today.      
(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Jul 23 09:50:31 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:50:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <c99.2ddb6b45.35b8967d@aol.com>
References: <c99.2ddb6b45.35b8967d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <48875347.7040005@mayfco.com>

The use of  cooking oils and any other fuel not taxed by the feds and 
states can be hazardous to your pocket book. Bothe State and Feds want 
their taxes on the fuel and are willing to fine you a LOT. So to all who 
use the stuff, be careful as it can urt.

mayf
BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 7/23/2008 12:31:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
>ed at vetteracing.com writes:
>
>The  Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 or CFMA (Public Law  106?554,
>?1(a)(5) [H.R. 5660], December 21, 2000, 114 Stat. 2763,  2763A?365, 7 U.S.C. 
>?
>Getting back to my original question (tires,remember?)..............
>Thank You All for your input, it was educating and entertaining. 
>Bottom line, keep your tires well inflated, drive at the right speed for  
>your vehicle which is probably a LOT slower than you do now. Improvements might  
>include upgrading to lower resistance tires when applicable, using synthetic 
>oil  in engine and possibly trans, breathing; air cleaner and exhaust , and  
>Diesel guys have chips to explore. Did I cover everything ? 
>A comment on the skyrocketing popularity of used veggie oil for the  diesels, 
>until recently a throw away from restaurants. There's been a few  instances 
>of people being caught locally actually stealing by siphoning the gunk  from 
>storage tanks behind the kitchens. Yuck.
>BOB W
>
>
>
>**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for 
>FanHouse Fantasy Football today.      
>(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)
>_______________________________________________
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>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
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From ddahlgren at snet.net  Wed Jul 23 12:46:27 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:46:27 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <48875347.7040005@mayfco.com>
References: <c99.2ddb6b45.35b8967d@aol.com>
  <48875347.7040005@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <BF7E6ED6DF0C4E5C83DC0753DFC5BEC9@DaveSatellite>

How do you tax something if it was free?? Yes I am sure there is probably a 
way.. My next problem is proving the still I have in the backyard is for 
making ethanol for my car and not me.. LOL Yeah right...
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: <BWANA343 at aol.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No new Refineries


> The use of  cooking oils and any other fuel not taxed by the feds and
> states can be hazardous to your pocket book. Bothe State and Feds want
> their taxes on the fuel and are willing to fine you a LOT. So to all who
> use the stuff, be careful as it can urt.
>
> mayf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Jul 23 17:23:58 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:23:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <BF7E6ED6DF0C4E5C83DC0753DFC5BEC9@DaveSatellite>
References: <c99.2ddb6b45.35b8967d@aol.com> <48875347.7040005@mayfco.com>
	<BF7E6ED6DF0C4E5C83DC0753DFC5BEC9@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <4887BD8E.2060703@mayfco.com>

Free or not, motor fuels are taxed. As I recall the one asked to pay was 
kinda smart mouthed about it and they said he could pay the tax or the 
$250,000 fine.  What would your choice be?   How you doing anyway?  You 
decided whether or not to come to speedweek?

mayf
Dave Dahlgren wrote:

> How do you tax something if it was free?? Yes I am sure there is 
> probably a way.. My next problem is proving the still I have in the 
> backyard is for making ethanol for my car and not me.. LOL Yeah right...
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: <BWANA343 at aol.com>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
>
>
>> The use of  cooking oils and any other fuel not taxed by the feds and
>> states can be hazardous to your pocket book. Bothe State and Feds want
>> their taxes on the fuel and are willing to fine you a LOT. So to all who
>> use the stuff, be careful as it can urt.
>>
>> mayf

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Jul 23 17:44:44 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:44:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <c99.2ddb6b45.35b8967d@aol.com>
References: <c99.2ddb6b45.35b8967d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00ae01c8ed1e$183b4b40$0200a8c0@DBTech>

With the price of an injection pump being what it is I don't think I want to
experiment with putting anything but #2 diesel in my truck.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
BWANA343 at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:13 AM
To: ed at vetteracing.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No new Refineries

In a message dated 7/23/2008 12:31:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
ed at vetteracing.com writes:

The  Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 or CFMA (Public Law
106?554,
?1(a)(5) [H.R. 5660], December 21, 2000, 114 Stat. 2763,  2763A?365, 7
U.S.C. 
?
Getting back to my original question (tires,remember?)..............
Thank You All for your input, it was educating and entertaining. 
Bottom line, keep your tires well inflated, drive at the right speed for  
your vehicle which is probably a LOT slower than you do now. Improvements
might  
include upgrading to lower resistance tires when applicable, using synthetic

oil  in engine and possibly trans, breathing; air cleaner and exhaust , and

Diesel guys have chips to explore. Did I cover everything ? 
A comment on the skyrocketing popularity of used veggie oil for the
diesels, 
until recently a throw away from restaurants. There's been a few  instances 
of people being caught locally actually stealing by siphoning the gunk  from

storage tanks behind the kitchens. Yuck.
BOB W



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From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Jul 23 18:05:27 2008
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:05:27 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <BF7E6ED6DF0C4E5C83DC0753DFC5BEC9@DaveSatellite>
References: <c99.2ddb6b45.35b8967d@aol.com> <48875347.7040005@mayfco.com>
	<BF7E6ED6DF0C4E5C83DC0753DFC5BEC9@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20AD36926@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

The Indiana State Police (a customer of mine) checks the COLOR of your
Diesel Fuel/Gasoline on traffic stops. If they find you are using Farm
Diesel/Gas(no road tax) in your vehicle you get the hefty fine on top of
your violation.

Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Jul 23 19:00:13 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:00:13 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd:  No new Refineries
Message-ID: <c57.39c5de0d.35b92e1d@aol.com>

____________________________________
 From: BWANA343
To: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com
Sent: 7/23/2008  8:59:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Re: [Land-speed] No new  Refineries




In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:05:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com writes:

The  Indiana State Police (a customer of mine) checks the COLOR of your
Diesel  Fuel/Gasoline on traffic stops. If they find you are using  Farm
Diesel/Gas(no road tax) in your vehicle you get the hefty fine on  top of
your violation.
Soooooo, keep a 5 gall tank of Veggie oil in the bed, with a switch  to main 
tank. If stopped by fuzzicles, flip switch, blame discolor on  McDonalds ?
 Bob Greasy, W






 
____________________________________
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Football  today_ 
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From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Jul 23 19:35:50 2008
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:35:50 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd:  No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <c57.39c5de0d.35b92e1d@aol.com>
References: <c57.39c5de0d.35b92e1d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20AD3693F@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

With the tank in the bed you get the added violation for distribution!
Kinda like selling pot, there's possession and the added volume that
qualifies you as a dealer. Both are tax violations....

Mike M.



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+mike.meierle=alcatel-lucent.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+mike.meierle=alcatel-lucent.com at autox.team.ne
t] On Behalf Of BWANA343 at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:00 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: No new Refineries

____________________________________
 From: BWANA343
To: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com
Sent: 7/23/2008  8:59:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Re: [Land-speed] No new  Refineries




In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:05:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com writes:

The  Indiana State Police (a customer of mine) checks the COLOR of your
Diesel  Fuel/Gasoline on traffic stops. If they find you are using  Farm
Diesel/Gas(no road tax) in your vehicle you get the hefty fine on  top
of your violation.
Soooooo, keep a 5 gall tank of Veggie oil in the bed, with a switch  to
main tank. If stopped by fuzzicles, flip switch, blame discolor on
McDonalds ?
 Bob Greasy, W







____________________________________
 Get fantasy football with free live scoring. _Sign up for FanHouse
Fantasy
Football  today_
(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) .





**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
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Land-speed mailing list

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From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Wed Jul 23 23:37:45 2008
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:37:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Brown Gas?
In-Reply-To: <001f01c8ebd4$c494f670$6500a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <002001c8ebb3$f5b2fac0$466a2544@john>
	<001f01c8ebd4$c494f670$6500a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <D06FC15F-9A62-4DE5-8DA3-9CE1F28561E2@gmail.com>

I think the concept is interesting, I just don't believe that people  
should be charging hundreds or thousands of dollars for a device you  
can make for under $50 (accounting for their fancy cases and whatnot,  
really $20 is a more realistic cost point)

I have a couple pdf books about it. Really interesting stuff. The hard  
part is tuning to compensate for the extra fuel (hydrogen).

~Jon

On Jul 22, 2008, at 1:27 AM, Keith Turk wrote:

> I was at a buddies race shop the other day and one of his customers  
> had
> build this system.... they were playing with it... and showed me how  
> the
> bubbles would catch fire and pop.... actually had some fairly  
> healthy noise
> going on...
>
> So truth or non truth... it was at least interesting...
>
> K
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as jon.the.wise at gmail.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Thu Jul 24 10:14:08 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:14:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
In-Reply-To: <BF7E6ED6DF0C4E5C83DC0753DFC5BEC9@DaveSatellite>
References: <c99.2ddb6b45.35b8967d@aol.com> <48875347.7040005@mayfco.com>
	<BF7E6ED6DF0C4E5C83DC0753DFC5BEC9@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <4888AA50.1060403@wildblue.net>

The Federal Tax is a "Road Use Tax" not sales tax calculated on the 
selling price.
It does not change when the price goes up or down.


We need a Federal law that  forces the planet earth to make an infinite 
supply of light sweet crude
available at a depth of 1000 feet where the land is dry and level and 
transportation is no more
than 10 miles away.

Bryan

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul 24 10:52:43 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:52:43 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] No new Refineries
References: <c99.2ddb6b45.35b8967d@aol.com>
	<48875347.7040005@mayfco.com><BF7E6ED6DF0C4E5C83DC0753DFC5BEC9@DaveSatellite>
	<4888AA50.1060403@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <002701c8edad$b2f5fdd0$6501a8c0@Glens>

Someone a while back on a talk show said something that made good sense was 
why not use all of the military bases that were closed to set up refineries, 
the ground is contaminated any way and way to expensive  to replace acres of 
dirt so a mini mall can be built on it.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <BWANA343 at aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No new Refineries


> The Federal Tax is a "Road Use Tax" not sales tax calculated on the
> selling price.
> It does not change when the price goes up or down.
>
>
> We need a Federal law that  forces the planet earth to make an infinite
> supply of light sweet crude
> available at a depth of 1000 feet where the land is dry and level and
> transportation is no more
> than 10 miles away.
>
> Bryan
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> 


-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 957 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 24 13:20:52 2008
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:20:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Anyone in the Las Vegas area?
Message-ID: <45ac72e90807241220p80a6ache9ef1f5452b91cbb@mail.gmail.com>

I need someone to check out a vehicle for me, in Las Vegas. It is a large
catering truck and I need to know if it is mechanically sound and the
equipment is functional. No, you don't need to be a cook. Just turn
equipment on and off and check the truck out mechanically. You know, the
usual mechanical stuff. I would fly out myself, but I just got out of the
hospital after almost three weeks and I can't travel.

I am willing to pay well.

Bob Denton
rjdenton479 at gmail.com
(248)335-9568

-- 
"Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what is for lunch." My
Curbside Gourmet

From dlodom at charter.net  Fri Jul 25 08:33:43 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 07:33:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Performance  Hard to find automotive items!
Message-ID: <4889E447.8090600@charter.net>

Here is a little known Company that sells the really trick race car parts.

Doug Odom in big ditch
http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 
<http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1>

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Fri Jul 25 09:25:46 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:25:46 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Performance  Hard to find automotive items!
In-Reply-To: <4889E447.8090600@charter.net>
Message-ID: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB1582F5@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

We've heard rumors of a major sponsorship for your team . . . .

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of DougOdom
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:34 AM
To: LandSpeed List
Subject: [Land-speed] Performance Hard to find automotive items!

Here is a little known Company that sells the really trick race car
parts.

Doug Odom in big ditch
http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1
<http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1>
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Jul 25 09:51:37 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:51:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Performance  Hard to find automotive items!
In-Reply-To: <4889E447.8090600@charter.net>
References: <4889E447.8090600@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4889F689.6080606@mayfco.com>

Great catch I just purchased two of the adjustabel powerbands for the 
SUnbeam. As everyone knows I have been down on power so these, one 
installed and a spare, should help to make up for the missing rpm I had 
last summer!

I already had some of the O pipes though...

mayf
DougOdom wrote:

>Here is a little known Company that sells the really trick race car parts.
>
>Doug Odom in big ditch
>http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 
><http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Jul 25 12:37:52 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:37:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Performance  Hard to find automotive items!
In-Reply-To: <4889E447.8090600@charter.net>
References: <4889E447.8090600@charter.net>
Message-ID: <001201c8ee85$8e3b4850$0200a8c0@DBTech>

"Cross- drilled brake lines"-- why didn't I think of that?

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
DougOdom
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 7:34 AM
To: LandSpeed List
Subject: [Land-speed] Performance Hard to find automotive items!

Here is a little known Company that sells the really trick race car parts.

Doug Odom in big ditch
http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 
<http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1>
_______________________________________________

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Fri Jul 25 12:48:35 2008
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:48:35 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Performance  Hard to find automotive items!
References: <4889E447.8090600@charter.net>
	<001201c8ee85$8e3b4850$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <002BB9268479411DBB28372EC70F7068@531W>

Probably the same reason, it took the Professor  so long to start selling 
the Flux Capacitor
or the 710 cap..

--------------------------------------------------
From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 2:37 PM
To: "'DougOdom'" <dlodom at charter.net>; "'LandSpeed List'" 
<Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Performance  Hard to find automotive items!

> "Cross- drilled brake lines"-- why didn't I think of that?
>
> Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
>
>
> > http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1
> <http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1>
> _______________________________________________

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 25 14:39:51 2008
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:39:51 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Performance Hard to find automotive items!
In-Reply-To: <002BB9268479411DBB28372EC70F7068@531W>
References: <4889E447.8090600@charter.net>
	<001201c8ee85$8e3b4850$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<002BB9268479411DBB28372EC70F7068@531W>
Message-ID: <45ac72e90807251339v42ea173fg9dc712e8c200626d@mail.gmail.com>

I used the cross drilled brakes when I was running a reverse flow 176 blower
on my engine. Man they are cool. We de-radialized the tires on the rear and
used nonbiased tires on the front. Too bad that they don't make squarehead
non-plugged engines any more. Life's a changin' laddies.

Bob Denton

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 2:48 PM, John Szalay <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>
wrote:

> Probably the same reason, it took the Professor  so long to start selling
> the Flux Capacitor
> or the 710 cap..
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 2:37 PM
> To: "'DougOdom'" <dlodom at charter.net>; "'LandSpeed List'"
> <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Performance  Hard to find automotive items!
>
> > "Cross- drilled brake lines"-- why didn't I think of that?
> >
> > Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
>
-- 
"Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what is for lunch." My
Curbside Gourmet

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Fri Jul 25 17:15:42 2008
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:15:42 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
Message-ID: <072520082315.16764.488A5E9E000E37B90000417C22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>

Hi All, 

We're coming to Speedweek and driving a couple of antique vehicles. (One is a 1932 Ford 3-W coupe that was a 'barn find' and still has the original paint, etc.). 

What are you guys recommendations for preparing these vehicles for driving on the salt before we arrive,  and also what are the recommendations for the clean-up process to prevent damage from rust and salt corrosion after we get home. 

All suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

JGMagoo
Silverthorne, Colorado

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 17:53:57 2008
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
In-Reply-To: <072520082315.16764.488A5E9E000E37B90000417C22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <407720.40540.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Get some "Salt-X".  Spray the bottom of the car profusely before you go on the
salt.  When you leave the salt, go to the first car wash you can find, be
ready to get wet, and just lay down with the high pressure wash and was the
bottom of the car for as many quarters as you can afford.  spray the entire
bottom with Salt-X again.  When you get to the next car was, do the under car
wash again.  Repeat this four or five times every hundred miles or so.  I
still had chunks of salt falling out of the bottom of my truck in El Paso
after five car wash trips, but finally got all of the salt out by the time I
made it the fifteen hundred miles back home.  Repeated under car washes is the
answer. I had the guys with the portable pressure wash hit if first when
leaving the salt at the bend in the road, then I did it again in Wendover,
then three times in Salt Lake City, once in Flagstaff, once in Roswell, again
in El Paso. When I got home, I parked the
 truck over a lawn sprinkler for a day.
 
I'm serious.  It worked, I still ended up with a little salt-induced rust
around one bumper bolt!
 
Dick J
In East Texas 
 

--- On Fri, 7/25/08, jgmagoo at comcast.net <jgmagoo at comcast.net> wrote:

From: jgmagoo at comcast.net <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 6:15 PM

Hi All,

We're coming to Speedweek and driving a couple of antique vehicles. (One is
a 1932 Ford 3-W coupe that was a 'barn find' and still has the original
paint, etc.).

What are you guys recommendations for preparing these vehicles for driving on
the salt before we arrive,  and also what are the recommendations for the
clean-up process to prevent damage from rust and salt corrosion after we get
home.

All suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

JGMagoo
Silverthorne, Colorado
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as lsr_man at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From karhu at california.com  Fri Jul 25 19:03:59 2008
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:03:59 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
References: <072520082315.16764.488A5E9E000E37B90000417C22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c8eebb$7c7f9450$6401a8c0@BennsDesktop>

Getting "down under" with the pressure wand is probably the best....but if
you don't have someone else to drive the vehicle out of the wash bay after
you've done your Salt Monkey job, you may not want to get that wet.  In any
case, plan on a shower afterwards (truck stop is the best).  I've typically
spent several dollars in quarters at the Wendover wash place (around the
bend behind the super market as I recall) and got whatever I can see on my
haunches or knees (hmm, knee pads wouldn't be a bad idea).  I wasn't aware
that there were Salt Monkeys at the "bend in the road" leading out to the
flats, but will probably avail myself of them this year.  Then when I get
home, I put on goggles, grab the hose sprayer, lay under the car, and go at
it.  (If you have plantings you care about, keep in mind that the salt water
could be a serious detriment).  Normally I try to break off the bigger
chunks of salt mechanically or with the spray head as I go.  Quite a lot
will come off in big chunks.   I spend about 45-60 minutes under the car
spraying inside the frame rails and any other places the spray head will
access.  I've done this process several times, and so far have no rust
showing anywhere, but of course there are almost certainly bolts that are
pretty rusted in spite of these efforts.  OTOH, I'm talking about a
reasonably late model unibody vehicle, and earlier stuff probably has more
crannies to hide salt.  I've never used the Salt-X, but it sounds like a
good idea, especially if you're driving a vehicle you really care about and
not just a grocery-getter.
Benn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo


> Hi All,
>
> We're coming to Speedweek and driving a couple of antique vehicles. (One
> is a 1932 Ford 3-W coupe that was a 'barn find' and still has the original
> paint, etc.).
>
> What are you guys recommendations for preparing these vehicles for driving
> on the salt before we arrive,  and also what are the recommendations for
> the clean-up process to prevent damage from rust and salt corrosion after
> we get home.
>
> All suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
>
> JGMagoo
> Silverthorne, Colorado
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as karhu at california.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Jul 25 21:09:44 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:09:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
References: <072520082315.16764.488A5E9E000E37B90000417C22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001601c8eecd$10104ff0$6501a8c0@S>

JG --
Do what Dick J and Benn suggest, but hold off on the frequent washes on the
way home.  The less time (in hours) that salt, water and high temperatures
have to work on unpainted steel in cracks and crevices the better off you
are.  Dick J lives in a year round warm humid climate.  He has to get rid of
the salt ASAP.  You live in dry Colorado (except maybe during the spring
thaw).  So plan on pulling the body off the frame of that deuce well before
the snow melts, give everything a good scrubbing to get any salt off and
then put on your favorite rust proofing coating. Also pull the drums and
check the leaf springs for salt deposits.  And if you can't find the time to
do that yourself, hire a shop to do it for you.  You don't have to do a
complete restoration.  Just get a good coating where it's needed, put in new
wiring harnesses with marine electrical sealant around all the connections
and put it back together with new fasteners & theads coated with neversieze.
You can wash that 32 till the cows come home and you won't get the salt out
of the seams in places like between the body and frame, individual sheet
metal assemblies and under the wood body framing.  And just to make sure you
know what to expect, the Bonneville is almost always wet, so salt sticks to
surfaces easily.  Even when the sun "dries" it and the humidity is 10% it is
sucking water out of the air.  And another thing...... the salt gets up into
the air with any wind and flies around as a fine dust that gets into
everything.  Modern vehicles have electrical systems that are fairly
resistant to that stuff (but not completely, not even my Toyota Tacoma)  And
most metal surfaces have some kind of coating.  Not so for vehicles made
before the late 1970's
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo


> Hi All,
> We're coming to Speedweek and driving a couple of antique vehicles. (One
is a 1932 Ford 3-W coupe that was a 'barn find' and still has the original
paint, etc.).
> What are you guys recommendations for preparing these vehicles for driving
on the salt before we arrive,  and also what are the recommendations for the
clean-up process to prevent damage from rust and salt corrosion after we get
home.
> All suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
> JGMagoo
> Silverthorne, Colorado

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 00:34:21 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:34:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
References: <072520082315.16764.488A5E9E000E37B90000417C22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003201c8eee9$a3addbd0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

No matter what anyone says or how may products you can come up with the only 
sure way is don't take them on the salt. If that won't do when your driving 
at 5mph and think it's to slow your going too fast...............Good Luck
----- Original Message ----- >
> JGMagoo
> Silverthorne, Colorado
> _______________________________________________

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Sat Jul 26 08:11:19 2008
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:11:19 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
In-Reply-To: <000a01c8eebb$7c7f9450$6401a8c0@BennsDesktop>
Message-ID: <20080726101119.8VY0D.16133.imail@eastrmwml24.mgt.cox.net>

For those who intend to use the Wendover coin wash....   Caution:  "Expert Opinion"  in progress -  I haven't spent a night in a Holiday iInn Express recently, but  I was an engineer with  a company that  designed and constructed carwashes  of every ilk .... 
     Because of EPA issues with road and engine oils and grease, etc  getting into  either greywater or storm drains, most  carwashes nowadays use recycled water.  While some  "treat" the water (a scrubber system followed by a  shot of bleach and an antibacterial to kill  the stench from the cistern)  unless Wendover doesn't recycle its water, or has a fairly sophisticated, large capacity distillation system (and some actually  do) , it's probably not removing much, if any of the salt  from the runoff.   Generally, if the "last step" is an "anti-waterspot" rinse, it   means that the "wash/rinse" water isn't all that contaminant or mineral free, and low volume, low- pressure distilled water is used -  sometimes they will add "Jet Dri" to the distilled rinse for the "sheeting action".    
    So,  before putting any money in the slot and  getting down-under with the wand, I recommend tasting the  rinse water coming out of the wand for salts (for those with compromised immune systems, or just wanting to be safe.....  follow  with  a liberal dose of Tequilla or some other medicinal of choice JUST IN CASE....   
   At any rate,  there's  no sense in replacing salt crystals with a briny   "clear coat"   that will get into cracks and crevasses where  the salt might not ordinarily go.    Might be better to bring a 110v pressure washer and hose,  and hook it up to the motel's garden hose spigot (Gee, I've NEVER done that before, ever... I swear) 
     Mark C 



---- Benn <karhu at california.com> wrote: 
> Getting "down under" with the pressure wand is probably the best....but if
> you don't have someone else to drive the vehicle out of the wash bay after
> you've done your Salt Monkey job, you may not want to get that wet.  In any
> case, plan on a shower afterwards (truck stop is the best).  I've typically
> spent several dollars in quarters at the Wendover wash place (around the
> bend behind the super market as I recall) and got whatever I can see on my
> haunches or knees (hmm, knee pads wouldn't be a bad idea). 

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Jul 26 10:39:28 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 09:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
In-Reply-To: <20080726101119.8VY0D.16133.imail@eastrmwml24.mgt.cox.net>
References: <20080726101119.8VY0D.16133.imail@eastrmwml24.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <488B5340.4090201@wildblue.net>

Sorry, I forgot a major item. Electrical connections. I used Ford "disc 
brake and
dielectric grease", a Silicon grease at Bonneville on our streamliner 
and had no evidence
of corrosion even with plane Jane connectors. I smear a load on 
everything that is part
of the electrical system. The more the better, wipe off excess if you like.
Get it at a Ford parts counter, I consider it cheap. I also use it on 
light bulb threads, after
many years they unscrew very easily.

Bryan

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Sat Jul 26 10:56:55 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 09:56:55 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
References: <072520082315.16764.488A5E9E000E37B90000417C22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<001601c8eecd$10104ff0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <488B5757.00000A.03164@D3DP98F1>

JGMagoo,

Quiet frankly, I would never drive a vehicle like that onto the salt if I
could avoid it. Especially it there is standing water to go through. It will
never be the same regardless of efforts to clean it up. Salt will get into
places you never will access with clean up, short of an off-frame
restoration. (Maybe I am just envious that you have an original '32 and I
don't!)

You could park it at the end of the access road and catch a ride to the pits


Tom, Redding CA #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of cat_side_en.gif]

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Jul 26 11:56:50 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:56:50 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
In-Reply-To: <488B5757.00000A.03164@D3DP98F1>
References: <072520082315.16764.488A5E9E000E37B90000417C22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<001601c8eecd$10104ff0$6501a8c0@S> <488B5757.00000A.03164@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <488B6562.6090808@wildblue.net>

An ORIGINAL '32 ... I missed that. All I see these days are repo. '32's.

Just do what Tom says or put it in shipping wrap and bring it on a flat bed.

Bryan




Tom Bryant wrote:
> JGMagoo,
>
> Quiet frankly, I would never drive a vehicle like that onto the salt if I
> could avoid it. Especially it there is standing water to go through. It will
> never be the same regardless of efforts to clean it up. Salt will get into
> places you never will access with clean up, short of an off-frame
> restoration. (Maybe I am just envious that you have an original '32 and I
> don't!)
>
> You could park it at the end of the access road and catch a ride to the pits
>
>
> Tom, Redding CA #216 D/FCC

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Jul 26 14:39:35 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:39:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
In-Reply-To: <488B5757.00000A.03164@D3DP98F1>
References: <072520082315.16764.488A5E9E000E37B90000417C22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<001601c8eecd$10104ff0$6501a8c0@S> <488B5757.00000A.03164@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <488B8B87.6000203@mayfco.com>

Yeah, what Tom said. The salt pan is  not a place for anything you want 
to keep.  Last year a fellow from down under drove his SUnbeam Tiger out 
to my pits...I nearly had a heart attack, lol... If you want people to 
ooh and aah over your car, show it at the hotel.

mayf
Tom Bryant wrote:

>JGMagoo,
>
>Quiet frankly, I would never drive a vehicle like that onto the salt if I
>could avoid it. Especially it there is standing water to go through. It will
>never be the same regardless of efforts to clean it up. Salt will get into
>places you never will access with clean up, short of an off-frame
>restoration. (Maybe I am just envious that you have an original '32 and I
>don't!)
>
>You could park it at the end of the access road and catch a ride to the pits
>
>
>Tom, Redding CA #216 D/FCC
>
>[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]
>
>[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of cat_side_en.gif]
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Jul 26 15:08:37 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:08:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust
References: <072520082315.16764.488A5E9E000E37B90000417C22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<001601c8eecd$10104ff0$6501a8c0@S> <488B5757.00000A.03164@D3DP98F1>
	<488B6562.6090808@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c8ef63$c9c68310$6501a8c0@S>

WARNING...RANT INCOMING!!
I'll give JGMagoo the benefit of the doubt and assume he's not part of the
strange side show that has gotten to going in recent years. This consists of
seeing who can make the biggest salt ball out of an unrestored old hot rod
or rat rod.  First off, I have nothing against rat rods whether they be
newly built safe drivers,  bizarre art forms safe only for very limited use
under power or original unrestored hot rods.  And I think it's way cool to
drive one to Speedweek even if it's only the 10 mile trip from Wendover
instead of a body wasting trek across half of the Great American Desert.

But I really cringe when I see nice old rods that have never been out of dry
country or spent the last 40 years in a barn away from the elements now
covered roof to frame rail with corrosive salt from purposely driving at
speed through salt brine or whatever they do to get it all over themselves.
It's like in the old days where games of oneupmanship would involve who
would light his cigar with the highest denomination banknote.  IMHO
purposely damaging a historic vehicle for no better reason that to say
something like "look at me, I'm rich enough to do this without a second
thought" is disgusting and puts our entire LSR culture in a bad light.

And while I'm at it I'd like to say that I'm not a big fan of sideshows put
on by "kids" with ratrods doing donuts in the saltbed near the Bend like I
saw in 2007.  I don't know how to practically stop that kind of "Salt
damage"; but I certainly would not want to encourage it.  I'm not sure I'd
want to one of the BLM reps to see that going on.

Old Fogey's Rant Over;     Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
Cc: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>; "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>;
"Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
> An ORIGINAL '32 ... I missed that. All I see these days are repo. '32's.
> Just do what Tom says or put it in shipping wrap and bring it on a flat
bed.
> Bryan

> Tom Bryant wrote:
> > JGMagoo,
> > Quiet frankly, I would never drive a vehicle like that onto the salt if
I
> > could avoid it. Especially it there is standing water to go through. It
will
> > never be the same regardless of efforts to clean it up. Salt will get
into
> > places you never will access with clean up, short of an off-frame
> > restoration. (Maybe I am just envious that you have an original '32 and
I
> > don't!)
> > You could park it at the end of the access road and catch a ride to the
pits
> > Tom, Redding CA #216 D/FCC

From nelsonspeedway at gmail.com  Sat Jul 26 21:01:38 2008
From: nelsonspeedway at gmail.com (Hot Rod Racing)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 22:01:38 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Land-speed Digest, Vol 2, Issue 227
In-Reply-To: <mailman.20163.1217090366.1200.land-speed@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.20163.1217090366.1200.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <ece097d60807262001k19f4ee9ete4bbb846b9e0c2f1@mail.gmail.com>

I heard that also, about the coin wash that they recycle the
water.........so you are washing you car with "salt
water"........hmmm......I we wondered why the roadster p/u had brake issues
from the Bonneville loctite.........Oh yea, for the guy that is bringing the
32'.......drive it and enjoy your car on the salt and when you get back
home, put a lawn sprinkler under the car on LOW pressure and let it do the
dirty work.......we run the sprinkler pretty much most of the day after
getting home from the Salt while moving it around thru out the day.

Chris Nelson
Kansas

>
>
> For those who intend to use the Wendover coin wash....   Caution:  "Expert
> Opinion"  in progress -  I haven't spent a night in a Holiday iInn Express
> recently, but  I was an engineer with  a company that  designed and
> constructed carwashes  of every ilk ....
>     Because of EPA issues with road and engine oils and grease, etc
>  getting into  either greywater or storm drains, most  carwashes nowadays
> use recycled water.  While some  "treat" the water (a scrubber system
> followed by a  shot of bleach and an antibacterial to kill  the stench from
> the cistern)  unless Wendover doesn't recycle its water, or has a fairly
> sophisticated, large capacity distillation system (and some actually  do) ,
> it's probably not removing much, if any of the salt  from the runoff.
> Generally, if the "last step" is an "anti-waterspot" rinse, it   means that
> the "wash/rinse" water isn't all that contaminant or mineral free, and low
> volume, low- pressure distilled water is used -  sometimes they will add
> "Jet Dri" to the distilled rinse for the "sheeting action".
>    So,  before putting any money in the slot and  getting down-under with
> the wand, I recommend tasting the  rinse water coming out of the wand for
> salts (for those with compromised immune systems, or just wanting to be
> safe.....  follow  with  a liberal dose of Tequilla or some other medicinal
> of choice JUST IN CASE....
>   At any rate,  there's  no sense in replacing salt crystals with a briny
> "clear coat"   that will get into cracks and crevasses where  the salt might
> not ordinarily go.    Might be better to bring a 110v pressure washer and
> hose,  and hook it up to the motel's garden hose spigot (Gee, I've NEVER
> done that before, ever... I swear)
>     Mark C
>
>
>


-- 
A Devil with A Hammer & Hell with A Torch

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Jul 26 22:50:12 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:50:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Intercooler Question
Message-ID: <488BFE84.5080801@mayfco.com>

I was thumbing my way through the latest issue of Muscle Mustang and 
Fast Fords and ran across an advert for Killerchiller.com. This is a 
system that uses the cars air conditioner to provide refrigeration type 
cooling to water that circulates through a water / air intercooler.

My questions is: has anyone just used the refrigeration from the air 
conditioner as a cooling system directly on the air going to the motor? 
Sorta like in your hose with the AC running. Could a car AC be enough to 
cool charge air temps after the super or turbo charger?  Anybody ever 
thought about doing it? Could you  run the AC from an electric motor? Or 
battery with a large enough alternaor?

Comments? I am going to do a littl ebit of thermo regards the refrig 
cycle but up front info would help.

mayf

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Sun Jul 27 04:57:16 2008
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 03:57:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Intercooler Question
In-Reply-To: <488BFE84.5080801@mayfco.com>
References: <488BFE84.5080801@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <84DB90E9-38D3-4ACB-827F-1A9938BA8F6D@gmail.com>

I've thought about it. That's as far as I've gotten though. I don't  
think an electric motor (small enough to fit in the engine  
compartment) has enough power to turn an A/C compressor, and then  
using it to cool water seems like a bit of excess. If you're going to  
use a water-air intercooler, just drop a couple blocks of dry ice into  
the water reservoir. With a buncha ice, and it should stay cool for a  
couple of runs...


On Jul 26, 2008, at 9:50 PM, drmayf wrote:

> I was thumbing my way through the latest issue of Muscle Mustang and
> Fast Fords and ran across an advert for Killerchiller.com. This is a
> system that uses the cars air conditioner to provide refrigeration  
> type
> cooling to water that circulates through a water / air intercooler.
>
> My questions is: has anyone just used the refrigeration from the air
> conditioner as a cooling system directly on the air going to the  
> motor?
> Sorta like in your hose with the AC running. Could a car AC be  
> enough to
> cool charge air temps after the super or turbo charger?  Anybody ever
> thought about doing it? Could you  run the AC from an electric  
> motor? Or
> battery with a large enough alternaor?
>
> Comments? I am going to do a littl ebit of thermo regards the refrig
> cycle but up front info would help.
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as jon.the.wise at gmail.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From advo at comcast.net  Sun Jul 27 06:44:40 2008
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:44:40 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Intercooler Question
In-Reply-To: <84DB90E9-38D3-4ACB-827F-1A9938BA8F6D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C4B1D7E8.1D20%advo@comcast.net>

You can release CO2 over the intercooler (just keep it away from the air
cleaner......It will chill the air  passing through it. Run the line along
your fuel line if you want to chill that too.....

Greg
Salt2Salt.com

On 7/27/08 5:57 AM, "Jon Bishop" <jon.the.wise at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've thought about it. That's as far as I've gotten though. I don't
> think an electric motor (small enough to fit in the engine
> compartment) has enough power to turn an A/C compressor, and then
> using it to cool water seems like a bit of excess. If you're going to
> use a water-air intercooler, just drop a couple blocks of dry ice into
> the water reservoir. With a buncha ice, and it should stay cool for a
> couple of runs...
> 
> 
> On Jul 26, 2008, at 9:50 PM, drmayf wrote:
> 
>> I was thumbing my way through the latest issue of Muscle Mustang and
>> Fast Fords and ran across an advert for Killerchiller.com. This is a
>> system that uses the cars air conditioner to provide refrigeration
>> type
>> cooling to water that circulates through a water / air intercooler.
>> 
>> My questions is: has anyone just used the refrigeration from the air
>> conditioner as a cooling system directly on the air going to the
>> motor?
>> Sorta like in your hose with the AC running. Could a car AC be
>> enough to
>> cool charge air temps after the super or turbo charger?  Anybody ever
>> thought about doing it? Could you  run the AC from an electric
>> motor? Or
>> battery with a large enough alternaor?
>> 
>> Comments? I am going to do a littl ebit of thermo regards the refrig
>> cycle but up front info would help.
>> 
>> mayf
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> 
>> Land-speed mailing list
>> 
>> You are subscribed as jon.the.wise at gmail.com
>> 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as advo at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sun Jul 27 09:29:03 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 15:29:03 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
Message-ID: <072720081529.23948.488C943E000E1E7100005D8C2216525856C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

dear jg magoo    enter the "barn find "in a destruction derby instead! it will be more fun to talk about! jack
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
> JG --
> Do what Dick J and Benn suggest, but hold off on the frequent washes on the
> way home.  The less time (in hours) that salt, water and high temperatures
> have to work on unpainted steel in cracks and crevices the better off you
> are.  Dick J lives in a year round warm humid climate.  He has to get rid of
> the salt ASAP.  You live in dry Colorado (except maybe during the spring
> thaw).  So plan on pulling the body off the frame of that deuce well before
> the snow melts, give everything a good scrubbing to get any salt off and
> then put on your favorite rust proofing coating. Also pull the drums and
> check the leaf springs for salt deposits.  And if you can't find the time to
> do that yourself, hire a shop to do it for you.  You don't have to do a
> complete restoration.  Just get a good coating where it's needed, put in new
> wiring harnesses with marine electrical sealant around all the connections
> and put it back together with new fasteners & theads coated with neversieze.
> You can wash that 32 till the cows come home and you won't get the salt out
> of the seams in places like between the body and frame, individual sheet
> metal assemblies and under the wood body framing.  And just to make sure you
> know what to expect, the Bonneville is almost always wet, so salt sticks to
> surfaces easily.  Even when the sun "dries" it and the humidity is 10% it is
> sucking water out of the air.  And another thing...... the salt gets up into
> the air with any wind and flies around as a fine dust that gets into
> everything.  Modern vehicles have electrical systems that are fairly
> resistant to that stuff (but not completely, not even my Toyota Tacoma)  And
> most metal surfaces have some kind of coating.  Not so for vehicles made
> before the late 1970's
> Ed Weldon
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
> To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 4:15 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
> 
> 
> > Hi All,
> > We're coming to Speedweek and driving a couple of antique vehicles. (One
> is a 1932 Ford 3-W coupe that was a 'barn find' and still has the original
> paint, etc.).
> > What are you guys recommendations for preparing these vehicles for driving
> on the salt before we arrive,  and also what are the recommendations for the
> clean-up process to prevent damage from rust and salt corrosion after we get
> home.
> > All suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
> > JGMagoo
> > Silverthorne, Colorado
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sun Jul 27 09:45:20 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 15:45:20 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
Message-ID: <072720081545.24351.488C981000052E8900005F1F2216525856C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Enter them in a destruction derby instead. a lot more to talk about!
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net
> Hi All, 
> 
> We're coming to Speedweek and driving a couple of antique vehicles. (One is a 
> 1932 Ford 3-W coupe that was a 'barn find' and still has the original paint, 
> etc.). 
> 
> What are you guys recommendations for preparing these vehicles for driving on 
> the salt before we arrive,  and also what are the recommendations for the 
> clean-up process to prevent damage from rust and salt corrosion after we get 
> home. 
> 
> All suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
> 
> JGMagoo
> Silverthorne, Colorado
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ed at vetteracing.com  Sun Jul 27 12:13:00 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:13:00 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo
Message-ID: <W822455873112451217182380@webmail34>

Hey Glen,
Didn't you used to mix up some "cocktail" of ATF and kerosene or some such?
Seems to me you used to swear by it????
Ed


-----Original Message-----
From: Dick J [mailto:lsr_man at yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 04:53 PM
To: 'land-speed-digest', jgmagoo at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagoo

Get some "Salt-X". Spray the bottom of the car profusely before you go on
thesalt. When you leave the salt, go to the first car wash you can find,
beready to get wet, and just lay down with the high pressure wash and was
thebottom of the car for as many quarters as you can afford. spray the
entirebottom with Salt-X again. When you get to the next car was, do the under
carwash again. Repeat this four or five times every hundred miles or so.
Istill had chunks of salt falling out of the bottom of my truck in El
Pasoafter five car wash trips, but finally got all of the salt out by the time
Imade it the fifteen hundred miles back home. Repeated under car washes is
theanswer. I had the guys with the portable pressure wash hit if first
whenleaving the salt at the bend in the road, then I did it again in
Wendover,then three times in Salt Lake City, once in Flagstaff, once in
Roswell, againin El Paso. When I got home, I parked the truck over a lawn
sprinkler for a day. I'm serious. It worked, I still ended up with a little
salt-induced rustaround one bumper bolt! Dick JIn East Texas --- On Fri,
7/25/08, jgmagoo at comcast.net  wrote:From: jgmagoo at comcast.net Subject:
[Land-speed] Preventing Salt Damage & Rust>From>JGMagooTo: "land-speed-digest"
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 6:15 PMHi All,We're coming to Speedweek and
driving a couple of antique vehicles. (One isa 1932 Ford 3-W coupe that was a
'barn find' and still has the originalpaint, etc.).What are you guys
recommendations for preparing these vehicles for driving onthe salt before we
arrive, and also what are the recommendations for theclean-up process to
prevent damage from rust and salt corrosion after we gethome.All suggestions
would be appreciated. Thanks!JGMagooSilverthorne, Colorado

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Jul 27 13:07:04 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:07:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Intercooler Question
In-Reply-To: <488BFE84.5080801@mayfco.com>
References: <488BFE84.5080801@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <488CC758.6070704@wildblue.net>

They are using water as a heat sink. The intercooler dumps a bunch in
for 5-10 sec. and the AC pulls it out over several minutes. Great for
street use. I can't see an application at Bonneville.
Bryan

drmayf wrote:
> I was thumbing my way through the latest issue of Muscle Mustang and 
> Fast Fords and ran across an advert for Killerchiller.com. This is a 
> system that uses the cars air conditioner to provide refrigeration type 
> cooling to water that circulates through a water / air intercooler.
>
> My questions is: has anyone just used the refrigeration from the air 
> conditioner as a cooling system directly on the air going to the motor? 
> Sorta like in your hose with the AC running. Could a car AC be enough to 
> cool charge air temps after the super or turbo charger?  Anybody ever 
> thought about doing it? Could you  run the AC from an electric motor? Or 
> battery with a large enough alternaor?
>
> Comments? I am going to do a littl ebit of thermo regards the refrig 
> cycle but up front info would help.
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as b.a.savage at wildblue.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun Jul 27 15:08:51 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:08:51 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Intercooler Question
Message-ID: <001401c8f02c$f8fe6cf0$466a2544@john>

Mayf

At 100% efficiency it takes 22.7 hp driving the compressor to equal each 10# 
of ice the intercooler would melt in 90 seconds if I converted btu/min. to 
watts to hp correctly .

John 

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Jul 27 22:24:39 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 0:24:39 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] DO'ins
Message-ID: <20080728002439.3TCE4.28425.imail@fed1rmwml14>

Another good day of brackett racing!!!!!!!!!!---Pickup the eng from the D'yno Mon. PM----

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Jul 29 21:01:18 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:01:18 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: : Free Beer For Land Speed  Racers!
Message-ID: <W8679831275123861217386878@webmail24>

Subject: Free Beer For Land Speed Racers!

Hey Ed,

Just saw a news report that you were on. Cool! Here is the link:
www.News3Online.com

Best,

Barack Obama








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From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Jul 29 21:05:29 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:05:29 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: : Free Beer For Land Speed  Racers!
Message-ID: <W8705113663224161217387129@webmail17>

Well, my "funny" of the day back-fired.... The linksorta self-destructed in
cyberspace, so don't waste your time. See yaat SpeedWeek,
Ed


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 08:01 PM
To: 'Land-Speed List'
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: : Free Beer For Land Speed Racers!

Subject: Free Beer For Land Speed Racers!Hey Ed,Just saw a news report that
you were on. Cool! Here is the link:www.News3Online.comBest,Barack ObamaPlease
beadvised that the e-mails created are not private messages and canbeviewed
and played by others on the internet. The sender, notPaltalk,controls the
content of this email. By accessing this email,youacknowledge that: (i) you
may be exposed to content provided by thesenderthat is abusive, offensive or
otherwise objectionable; and (ii)Paltalk willnot be liable in any way for such
content, including, butnot limited to anyerrors or omissions in such content
or e-mailaddresses included therein or anyloss or damage of any kind
incurredas a result of the review and/or use ofsuch content. For
moreinformation regarding your privacy, please access thefollowing link,
http://www.paltalk.com/en/privacy.shtml______________________________________
_________Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.htmlLand-speed mailing
listYou are subscribed as
ed at vetteracing.comhttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Jul 30 11:37:27 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:37:27 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Lynn Yakel Passed
Message-ID: <003a01c8f26a$f0140c40$6501a8c0@Glens>

Race car and streamliner designer Lynn Yakel passed away yesterday. Major
designer and member of the Larson Cummins stream liner and aided the Vescos in
their Bike and cars designs. A great person. RIP Lynn.

--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 1107 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

From jdincau at qnet.com  Wed Jul 30 17:11:34 2008
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:11:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fire bottle tags
Message-ID: <2FAE87FEF1AD41A18A0854282FE3E0DA@denpc>

     Anyone know of a place in the Antelope Valley, CA. area that will tag 
race car fire bottles. All the places listed in the phone book will only do 
UL rated fire extinguishers. The local race car shops are clueless. 

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Jul 30 17:57:11 2008
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:57:11 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] Barn find with interesting car.
Message-ID: <17B89DD7C6B44CCD9EDBB434996838A0@ChrisHarrisPC>

 List,
Here's a link to an Australian collection of cars. Click on the slide show. 
One car caught my eye on picture 35 and 36, famous name there.
Anyone have further info.

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/content/aussiebarnfind

Chris Harris.............NZed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 20:41:54 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:41:54 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
Message-ID: <000901c8f2b6$fe554570$466a2544@john>

Red, white , blue and smart fuel . Works as diesel and heating oil or can be
refined into gasoline .



http://gas2.org/2008/04/25/could-we-grow-100000-gallons-of-oil-per-acre-yes-s
ays-vertigro-algae-biofuel-video/

John

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 08:27:27 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:27:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
References: <000901c8f2b6$fe554570$466a2544@john>
Message-ID: <001f01c8f319$916c6070$6501a8c0@S>

Credible?  Who knows?  Much if not most of what we see of this sort of thing
over the next few years will be pure flim-flam designed to extract money
from fools.  Even the legitimate ideas can be sunk in a short time by a
change in technology or governmental actions.
The only sure thing will be reducing the amount of fuel you use.
Anyone clever enough to put together a land speed racing machine ought to be
able to come up with a decent high mileage machine once he decides that the
price of gas or ordinary diesel is too high for his liking.
I'm not there yet either; but I'm watching.
So who among us will be the first to build a really small diesel powered 5th
wheel tow vehicle weighing under 3000 lbs. to go with a lightweight
gooseneck trailer?  (Don't expect the car companies to do this anytime soon)
How about a lightweight (like 1300 lb) glass bodied T bucket on a homebuilt
Lotus 7 type chassis to use for a grocery/parts chaser?
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 7:41 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel

> Red, white , blue and smart fuel . Works as diesel and heating oil or can
be
> refined into gasoline .
>
http://gas2.org/2008/04/25/could-we-grow-100000-gallons-of-oil-per-acre-yes-s
> ays-vertigro-algae-biofuel-video/
> John

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Jul 31 08:42:22 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:42:22 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
In-Reply-To: <001f01c8f319$916c6070$6501a8c0@S>
References: <000901c8f2b6$fe554570$466a2544@john>
	<001f01c8f319$916c6070$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <D41C52D0AD28445BB374BCCFD02DCEB6@DaveSatellite>

I have been toying with the idea to build something like a Lola T70 replica 
but use some slippery body style rather than a t bucket. I need to figure 
out at what time it goes from being a hand built car to a custom or modified 
one in CT as the registration process is vastly different. If you don't have 
a VIN number to start with it has to be trailered to a special inspection 
station for their evaluation possibly several times and I don't own a truck 
and trailer... I am thinking along the lines of a Honda B-18 engine with the 
variable cam timing and a rear engine car that comes in around 1800 lbs if 
done right. I was also thinking about using the plastic panels off a Fiero 
or something similar to get into 1980's emissions though that might require 
using the Fiero engine which is ok on fuel but not great. An ecotech 4 
cylinder might have some possibilities as well. I don't want to have to meet 
2008 emissions though..
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel


> Credible?  Who knows?  Much if not most of what we see of this sort of 
> thing
> over the next few years will be pure flim-flam designed to extract money
> from fools.  Even the legitimate ideas can be sunk in a short time by a
> change in technology or governmental actions.
> The only sure thing will be reducing the amount of fuel you use.
> Anyone clever enough to put together a land speed racing machine ought to 
> be
> able to come up with a decent high mileage machine once he decides that 
> the
> price of gas or ordinary diesel is too high for his liking.
> I'm not there yet either; but I'm watching.
> So who among us will be the first to build a really small diesel powered 
> 5th
> wheel tow vehicle weighing under 3000 lbs. to go with a lightweight
> gooseneck trailer?  (Don't expect the car companies to do this anytime 
> soon)
> How about a lightweight (like 1300 lb) glass bodied T bucket on a 
> homebuilt
> Lotus 7 type chassis to use for a grocery/parts chaser?
> Ed Weldon

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 09:03:11 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:03:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] High mileage homebuilts
References: <000901c8f2b6$fe554570$466a2544@john>
	<001f01c8f319$916c6070$6501a8c0@S>
	<D41C52D0AD28445BB374BCCFD02DCEB6@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <002a01c8f31e$8eda51a0$6501a8c0@S>

Dave --
I sympathize with you regarding Connecticut's approach to registering
vehicles.  I used to live in New Jersey where it was similarly difficult to
register anything homebuilt.  California has always been much more liberal.
I believe that as long as a vehicle passes the reasonable safety
requirements of the DMV referees and meets the smog requirements for the
engine you use you are "in".  Any CA guys on this list been through that in
the last year or so?  Am I anywhere near correct in my statement above?
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "LandSpeed List"
<Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel


> I have been toying with the idea to build something like a Lola T70
replica
> but use some slippery body style rather than a t bucket. I need to figure
> out at what time it goes from being a hand built car to a custom or
modified
> one in CT as the registration process is vastly different. If you don't
have
> a VIN number to start with it has to be trailered to a special inspection
> station for their evaluation possibly several times and I don't own a
truck
> and trailer... I am thinking along the lines of a Honda B-18 engine with
the
> variable cam timing and a rear engine car that comes in around 1800 lbs if
> done right. I was also thinking about using the plastic panels off a Fiero
> or something similar to get into 1980's emissions though that might
require
> using the Fiero engine which is ok on fuel but not great. An ecotech 4
> cylinder might have some possibilities as well. I don't want to have to
meet
> 2008 emissions though..
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
> To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
> > How about a lightweight (like 1300 lb) glass bodied T bucket on a
> > homebuilt Lotus 7 type chassis to use for a grocery/parts chaser?
> > Ed Weldon

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 31 09:10:42 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:10:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
In-Reply-To: <000901c8f2b6$fe554570$466a2544@john>
References: <000901c8f2b6$fe554570$466a2544@john>
Message-ID: <4891D5F2.6080302@mayfco.com>

Yep, algae is a great producer of bio diesel.  However, there were a few 
significant details missing, lol.. Like this takes the equivalent of 200 
acres to produce he 100,000 gallons per YEAR It also need carbon dioxide 
as well. Yeah we have lots of that right now but putting a facility in 
th emiddl eof nowhere requires yo have some extracion methods for CO2 to 
feed to the algae.  Just supposing, bu if you wanted to replace all the 
petro fuels with this then you woul dneed approximately 731,000 acre 
equivalents.  And did we notice how the extraction is done? Nope becaus 
eit is not as easy to do as made to sound.  That takes a fair amount of 
energy itslf as I understand it. You don't just throw a wad of it into 
the tank of the truck. I believer it has to be dried first, then crushed 
and the oils separated form the left overs and then processed.  Will it 
work, You betcha! I saw a proram the other evening regarding a power 
plant in partnership with an algae company doing similar except that 
they were capturing the co2 from the stacks to feed the algae and they 
also used bio reactors which were individual grow tanks, similar to this.

I hope this happens but believe me, diesel won't come back down in 
price. How you gonna get them back on the farm when they been to the 
city, lol...

Good catch, I like that  people are thinking out of the box..

mayf
John Burk wrote:

>Red, white , blue and smart fuel . Works as diesel and heating oil or can be
>refined into gasoline .
>
>
>
>http://gas2.org/2008/04/25/could-we-grow-100000-gallons-of-oil-per-acre-yes-s
>ays-vertigro-algae-biofuel-video/
>
>John
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From NT788 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 09:22:43 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:22:43 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
Message-ID: <073120081522.16143.4891D8C2000F3CC500003F0F2215555884C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Why don't we make fuel with all the fat from polar bears that have died from 2 stroke model airplane  exhaust? Jack
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> Yep, algae is a great producer of bio diesel.  However, there were a few 
> significant details missing, lol.. Like this takes the equivalent of 200 
> acres to produce he 100,000 gallons per YEAR It also need carbon dioxide 
> as well. Yeah we have lots of that right now but putting a facility in 
> th emiddl eof nowhere requires yo have some extracion methods for CO2 to 
> feed to the algae.  Just supposing, bu if you wanted to replace all the 
> petro fuels with this then you woul dneed approximately 731,000 acre 
> equivalents.  And did we notice how the extraction is done? Nope becaus 
> eit is not as easy to do as made to sound.  That takes a fair amount of 
> energy itslf as I understand it. You don't just throw a wad of it into 
> the tank of the truck. I believer it has to be dried first, then crushed 
> and the oils separated form the left overs and then processed.  Will it 
> work, You betcha! I saw a proram the other evening regarding a power 
> plant in partnership with an algae company doing similar except that 
> they were capturing the co2 from the stacks to feed the algae and they 
> also used bio reactors which were individual grow tanks, similar to this.
> 
> I hope this happens but believe me, diesel won't come back down in 
> price. How you gonna get them back on the farm when they been to the 
> city, lol...
> 
> Good catch, I like that  people are thinking out of the box..
> 
> mayf
> John Burk wrote:
> 
> >Red, white , blue and smart fuel . Works as diesel and heating oil or can be
> >refined into gasoline .
> >
> >
> >
> >http://gas2.org/2008/04/25/could-we-grow-100000-gallons-of-oil-per-acre-yes-s
> >ays-vertigro-algae-biofuel-video/
> >
> >John
> >_______________________________________________
> >Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> >Land-speed mailing list
> >
> >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
> >
> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From NT788 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 09:29:34 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:29:34 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
Message-ID: <073120081529.8447.4891DA5E000AB09E000020FF2215555884C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Hi dave i have complete molds for a lotus 23. I also have ways to make it monocoque. talk about slippery. surely the smog nazis would bitch tho! jack
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
> I have been toying with the idea to build something like a Lola T70 replica 
> but use some slippery body style rather than a t bucket. I need to figure 
> out at what time it goes from being a hand built car to a custom or modified 
> one in CT as the registration process is vastly different. If you don't have 
> a VIN number to start with it has to be trailered to a special inspection 
> station for their evaluation possibly several times and I don't own a truck 
> and trailer... I am thinking along the lines of a Honda B-18 engine with the 
> variable cam timing and a rear engine car that comes in around 1800 lbs if 
> done right. I was also thinking about using the plastic panels off a Fiero 
> or something similar to get into 1980's emissions though that might require 
> using the Fiero engine which is ok on fuel but not great. An ecotech 4 
> cylinder might have some possibilities as well. I don't want to have to meet 
> 2008 emissions though..
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
> To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
> 
> 
> > Credible?  Who knows?  Much if not most of what we see of this sort of 
> > thing
> > over the next few years will be pure flim-flam designed to extract money
> > from fools.  Even the legitimate ideas can be sunk in a short time by a
> > change in technology or governmental actions.
> > The only sure thing will be reducing the amount of fuel you use.
> > Anyone clever enough to put together a land speed racing machine ought to 
> > be
> > able to come up with a decent high mileage machine once he decides that 
> > the
> > price of gas or ordinary diesel is too high for his liking.
> > I'm not there yet either; but I'm watching.
> > So who among us will be the first to build a really small diesel powered 
> > 5th
> > wheel tow vehicle weighing under 3000 lbs. to go with a lightweight
> > gooseneck trailer?  (Don't expect the car companies to do this anytime 
> > soon)
> > How about a lightweight (like 1300 lb) glass bodied T bucket on a 
> > homebuilt
> > Lotus 7 type chassis to use for a grocery/parts chaser?
> > Ed Weldon
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Jul 31 09:35:15 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:35:15 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
In-Reply-To: <073120081522.16143.4891D8C2000F3CC500003F0F2215555884C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB158314@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Why don't we make fuel with all the fat from polar bears that have died
from 2 stroke model airplane  exhaust? Jack
 -------------- Original message ----------------------


Wouldn't that starve the indiginous people?  (Eskimo types)

Point taken.

From NT788 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 09:35:08 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:35:08 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
Message-ID: <073120081535.26490.4891DBAC0009EE720000677A2215555884C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

How about a lotus 23 monocoque , with a 500cc snowmobile 4stroke with reverse? i have molds. good ideas , bad goverment! jack
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
> Credible?  Who knows?  Much if not most of what we see of this sort of thing
> over the next few years will be pure flim-flam designed to extract money
> from fools.  Even the legitimate ideas can be sunk in a short time by a
> change in technology or governmental actions.
> The only sure thing will be reducing the amount of fuel you use.
> Anyone clever enough to put together a land speed racing machine ought to be
> able to come up with a decent high mileage machine once he decides that the
> price of gas or ordinary diesel is too high for his liking.
> I'm not there yet either; but I'm watching.
> So who among us will be the first to build a really small diesel powered 5th
> wheel tow vehicle weighing under 3000 lbs. to go with a lightweight
> gooseneck trailer?  (Don't expect the car companies to do this anytime soon)
> How about a lightweight (like 1300 lb) glass bodied T bucket on a homebuilt
> Lotus 7 type chassis to use for a grocery/parts chaser?
> Ed Weldon
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
> To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 7:41 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
> 
> > Red, white , blue and smart fuel . Works as diesel and heating oil or can
> be
> > refined into gasoline .
> >
> http://gas2.org/2008/04/25/could-we-grow-100000-gallons-of-oil-per-acre-yes-s
> > ays-vertigro-algae-biofuel-video/
> > John
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Jul 31 09:42:06 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:42:06 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
In-Reply-To: <D41C52D0AD28445BB374BCCFD02DCEB6@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB158315@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

One can dance around VIN and tax issues - emissions seems to be the
serious issue.

WE (here in zip code EIEIO) do a lot of "creative" registrations . .
.BUT we have no emissions standards.

David, somewhere in the west
No taxation without intelligent life making the laws!





I have been toying with the idea to build something like a Lola T70
replica
but use some slippery body style rather than a t bucket. I need to
figure
out at what time it goes from being a hand built car to a custom or
modified
one in CT as the registration process is vastly different. If you don't
have
a VIN number to start with it has to be trailered to a special
inspection
station for their evaluation possibly several times and I don't own a
truck
and trailer... I am thinking along the lines of a Honda B-18 engine with
the
variable cam timing and a rear engine car that comes in around 1800 lbs
if
done right. I was also thinking about using the plastic panels off a
Fiero
or something similar to get into 1980's emissions though that might
require
using the Fiero engine which is ok on fuel but not great. An ecotech 4
cylinder might have some possibilities as well. I don't want to have to
meet
2008 emissions though..
Dave

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 31 09:45:48 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:45:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
In-Reply-To: <073120081522.16143.4891D8C2000F3CC500003F0F2215555884C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
References: <073120081522.16143.4891D8C2000F3CC500003F0F2215555884C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4891DE2B.7060308@mayfco.com>

Jack! We DO! But that fat from polar bears is used to make the fuel that 
is used in model airplanes flown only n Alaska and Northern Canada.  I 
don't think the polar bears in Russia have been affected yet. 

mayf
NT788 at comcast.net wrote:

>Why don't we make fuel with all the fat from polar bears that have died from 2 stroke model airplane  exhaust? Jack
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>  
>
>>Yep, algae is a great producer of bio diesel.  However, there were a few 
>>significant details missing, lol.. Like this takes the equivalent of 200 
>>acres to produce he 100,000 gallons per YEAR It also need carbon dioxide 
>>as well. Yeah we have lots of that right now but putting a facility in 
>>th emiddl eof nowhere requires yo have some extracion methods for CO2 to 
>>feed to the algae.  Just supposing, bu if you wanted to replace all the 
>>petro fuels with this then you woul dneed approximately 731,000 acre 
>>equivalents.  And did we notice how the extraction is done? Nope becaus 
>>eit is not as easy to do as made to sound.  That takes a fair amount of 
>>energy itslf as I understand it. You don't just throw a wad of it into 
>>the tank of the truck. I believer it has to be dried first, then crushed 
>>and the oils separated form the left overs and then processed.  Will it 
>>work, You betcha! I saw a proram the other evening regarding a power 
>>plant in partnership with an algae company doing similar except that 
>>they were capturing the co2 from the stacks to feed the algae and they 
>>also used bio reactors which were individual grow tanks, similar to this.
>>
>>I hope this happens but believe me, diesel won't come back down in 
>>price. How you gonna get them back on the farm when they been to the 
>>city, lol...
>>
>>Good catch, I like that  people are thinking out of the box..
>>
>>mayf 

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Jul 31 10:14:58 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:14:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
In-Reply-To: <073120081522.16143.4891D8C2000F3CC500003F0F2215555884C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
References: <073120081522.16143.4891D8C2000F3CC500003F0F2215555884C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <01c601c8f328$978a16f0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Jack;

Maybe we can have a bumper sticker printed that says "Kill a polar bear--
save an Eskimo". :)

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
NT788 at comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 8:23 AM
To: drmayf at mayfco.com; John Burk
Cc: LandSpeed List
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel

Why don't we make fuel with all the fat from polar bears that have died from
2 stroke model airplane  exhaust? Jack
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> Yep, algae is a great producer of bio diesel.  However, there were a few 
> significant details missing, lol.. Like this takes the equivalent of 200 
> acres to produce he 100,000 gallons per YEAR It also need carbon dioxide 
> as well. Yeah we have lots of that right now but putting a facility in 
> th emiddl eof nowhere requires yo have some extracion methods for CO2 to 
> feed to the algae.  Just supposing, bu if you wanted to replace all the 
> petro fuels with this then you woul dneed approximately 731,000 acre 
> equivalents.  And did we notice how the extraction is done? Nope becaus 
> eit is not as easy to do as made to sound.  That takes a fair amount of 
> energy itslf as I understand it. You don't just throw a wad of it into 
> the tank of the truck. I believer it has to be dried first, then crushed 
> and the oils separated form the left overs and then processed.  Will it 
> work, You betcha! I saw a proram the other evening regarding a power 
> plant in partnership with an algae company doing similar except that 
> they were capturing the co2 from the stacks to feed the algae and they 
> also used bio reactors which were individual grow tanks, similar to this.
> 
> I hope this happens but believe me, diesel won't come back down in 
> price. How you gonna get them back on the farm when they been to the 
> city, lol...
> 
> Good catch, I like that  people are thinking out of the box..
> 
> mayf
> John Burk wrote:
> 
> >Red, white , blue and smart fuel . Works as diesel and heating oil or can
be
> >refined into gasoline .
> >
> >
> >
>
>http://gas2.org/2008/04/25/could-we-grow-100000-gallons-of-oil-per-acre-yes
-s
> >ays-vertigro-algae-biofuel-video/
> >
> >John
> >_______________________________________________
> >Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> >Land-speed mailing list
> >
> >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
> >
> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From mike_lackey at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 13:09:43 2008
From: mike_lackey at yahoo.com (Mike Lackey)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:09:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
Message-ID: <509421.83634.qm@web30007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The laws regarding engine swaps and emissions are federal laws and apply
regardless of whether your local area does emissions testing or not.
A brief
synopsis:
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/policies/civil/caa/mobile/engswitch.p
df
Even more brief: you can swap engines so long as all emissions equipment is
present and functional, the engine must be from the same year or newer than
the chassis, and you stick to similar vehicle types (light duty vs. heavy
duty).

If you live in Timbuktu chances are exceedingly slim that anyone will
ever notice or care, but it's something to be aware of anyways.  Even in
cities, it's doubtful anyone will care.  I saw 20+ classic cars with LSx
engines swapped in at the Good Guys show last weekend near Seattle, and I
didn't see a single one with a charcoal canister and I doubt any had catalytic
converters.
Mike


----- Original Message ----
From: "Adin, David"
<DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
To: Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net>; Ed Weldon
<23.weldon at comcast.net>; LandSpeed List <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent:
Thursday, July 31, 2008 8:42:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
One can dance around VIN and tax issues - emissions seems to be the
serious
issue.

WE (here in zip code EIEIO) do a lot of "creative" registrations . .
.BUT we have no emissions standards.

David, somewhere in the west
No taxation
without intelligent life making the laws!





I have been toying with the
idea to build something like a Lola T70
replica
but use some slippery body
style rather than a t bucket. I need to
figure
out at what time it goes from
being a hand built car to a custom or
modified
one in CT as the registration
process is vastly different. If you don't
have
a VIN number to start with it
has to be trailered to a special
inspection
station for their evaluation
possibly several times and I don't own a
truck
and trailer... I am thinking
along the lines of a Honda B-18 engine with
the
variable cam timing and a rear
engine car that comes in around 1800 lbs
if
done right. I was also thinking
about using the plastic panels off a
Fiero
or something similar to get into
1980's emissions though that might
require
using the Fiero engine which is ok
on fuel but not great. An ecotech 4
cylinder might have some possibilities as
well. I don't want to have to
meet
2008 emissions though..
Dave
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net 
http://www.team.net/donate.html

Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed
as mike_lackey at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From v4gr at rcn.com  Thu Jul 31 13:18:39 2008
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:18:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] fuel and such
Message-ID: <001201c8f342$3d560da0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

Yesterday I went to the store and bought some oranges. We grow plenty of
oranges in California. These looked good and taste good. I just looked at the
little label on them and they came from Australia. That's a pretty long haul
for an Orange. I guess they came in a refrigerated container. Still must have
burned a fair amount of fuel to get here and still sell cheap. RF

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 13:28:35 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:28:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] fuel and such
References: <001201c8f342$3d560da0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <002501c8f343$a1cd64d0$6501a8c0@S>

What do you want to bet that someone, either the farmer or some middle man,
is stuck with a contract negotiated when air freight was cheaper than today
and is now shipping money with every orange......
Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Fox" <v4gr at rcn.com>
To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:18 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] fuel and such


> Yesterday I went to the store and bought some oranges. We grow plenty of
> oranges in California. These looked good and taste good. I just looked at
the
> little label on them and they came from Australia. That's a pretty long
haul
> for an Orange. I guess they came in a refrigerated container. Still must
have
> burned a fair amount of fuel to get here and still sell cheap. RF
> _______________________________________________

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Jul 31 14:11:27 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:11:27 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
In-Reply-To: <509421.83634.qm@web30007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB15831B@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

You aren't a revenue agent, are you?

FWIW, my "legal" motors spew forth far more in a month than my other stuff
does in  a year.

Ma, pass me the shotgun . . .

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lackey [mailto:mike_lackey at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 1:10 PM
To: Adin, David; LandSpeed List
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel

The laws regarding engine swaps and emissions are federal laws and apply
regardless of whether your local area does emissions testing or not.
A brief synopsis:
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/policies/civil/caa/mobile/engswitch.p
df
Even more brief: you can swap engines so long as all emissions equipment is
present and functional, the engine must be from the same year or newer than
the chassis, and you stick to similar vehicle types (light duty vs. heavy
duty).

If you live in Timbuktu chances are exceedingly slim that anyone will ever
notice or care, but it's something to be aware of anyways.  Even in cities,
it's doubtful anyone will care.  I saw 20+ classic cars with LSx engines
swapped in at the Good Guys show last weekend near Seattle, and I didn't see a
single one with a charcoal canister and I doubt any had catalytic converters.
Mike


----- Original Message ----
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
To: Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net>; Ed Weldon <23.weldon at comcast.net>;
LandSpeed List <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 8:42:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel

One can dance around VIN and tax issues - emissions seems to be the
serious issue.

WE (here in zip code EIEIO) do a lot of "creative" registrations . .
.BUT we have no emissions standards.

David, somewhere in the west
No taxation without intelligent life making the laws!





I have been toying with the idea to build something like a Lola T70
replica
but use some slippery body style rather than a t bucket. I need to
figure
out at what time it goes from being a hand built car to a custom or
modified
one in CT as the registration process is vastly different. If you don't
have
a VIN number to start with it has to be trailered to a special
inspection
station for their evaluation possibly several times and I don't own a
truck
and trailer... I am thinking along the lines of a Honda B-18 engine with
the
variable cam timing and a rear engine car that comes in around 1800 lbs
if
done right. I was also thinking about using the plastic panels off a
Fiero
or something similar to get into 1980's emissions though that might
require
using the Fiero engine which is ok on fuel but not great. An ecotech 4
cylinder might have some possibilities as well. I don't want to have to
meet
2008 emissions though..
Dave
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as mike_lackey at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 14:14:36 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:14:36 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] fuel and such
In-Reply-To: <002501c8f343$a1cd64d0$6501a8c0@S>
References: <001201c8f342$3d560da0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
	<002501c8f343$a1cd64d0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <3FCF02E4-949C-4974-A2CE-88269F7DAE1D@comcast.net>

Does anyone have an idea what terms the California Citrus Growers  
contract
specifies with companies like Sunkist?  Last I heard it was very  
limiting for
the growers to sell their surplus fruit at ANY price.  It may be  
cheaper to bring
citrus products in from Australia rather than pay Sunkist and industry  
prices
in the U S.

Wes

On Jul 31, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Ed Weldon wrote:

> What do you want to bet that someone, either the farmer or some  
> middle man,
> is stuck with a contract negotiated when air freight was cheaper  
> than today
> and is now shipping money with every orange......
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Fox" <v4gr at rcn.com>
> To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:18 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] fuel and such
>
>
>> Yesterday I went to the store and bought some oranges. We grow  
>> plenty of
>> oranges in California. These looked good and taste good. I just  
>> looked at
> the
>> little label on them and they came from Australia. That's a pretty  
>> long
> haul
>> for an Orange. I guess they came in a refrigerated container. Still  
>> must
> have
>> burned a fair amount of fuel to get here and still sell cheap. RF
>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 14:29:43 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:29:43 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuels technology breakthrough
Message-ID: <70A27592-B726-4F21-8DB7-77740156A838@comcast.net>

 From another list ...  Interesting read!

Scientists have figured out how to cheaply and simply replicate  
plant's photosynthesis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.

http://www.forbes.com/business/2008/07/30 /nocera-solar-power-biz- 
energy-cz_jf_0731s olar.html?feed=rss_business

The findings will be published in the Journal Science tomorrow.

It is presumed that the chemical reaction can be powered by existing  
photovoltaic technology. The hydrogen and oxygen particles freed from  
the reaction can in turn be used in a fuel cell. Solar power,  
splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen which are in turn used in a  
fuel cell for power. WOW!

With inexpensive, thin-film photovoltaic cell's coming online (like  
nanosolar and others) as well as breakthroughs like this, we are on  
the verge of having an energy revolution in this country and worldwide  
that will come to harness solar power in a huge way.

This is not your water-powering-vehicles project-in-the-garage by your  
crazy uncle stuff. These are real scientists in grant-supported  
research labs making big-time advances along with private-equity  
banking manufacturers to roll out inexpensive solar cells.

From adin at frontier.net  Thu Jul 31 14:39:54 2008
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:39:54 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuels technology breakthrough
In-Reply-To: <70A27592-B726-4F21-8DB7-77740156A838@comcast.net>
References: <70A27592-B726-4F21-8DB7-77740156A838@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20080731143954.p3g085us2ssgogc0@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Hey, my uncle wasn't crazy.

Hope your optimism bears fruit.

How will this be taxed? and will this affect the college girl next
door - I've been studying her ability to get energy from the sun!

David, with a little less optimism . . . . .


Quoting Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net>:

>  From another list ...  Interesting read!
>
> Scientists have figured out how to cheaply and simply replicate
> plant's photosynthesis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.
>
> http://www.forbes.com/business/2008/07/30 /nocera-solar-power-biz-
> energy-cz_jf_0731s olar.html?feed=rss_business
>
> The findings will be published in the Journal Science tomorrow.
>
> It is presumed that the chemical reaction can be powered by existing
> photovoltaic technology. The hydrogen and oxygen particles freed from
> the reaction can in turn be used in a fuel cell. Solar power,
> splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen which are in turn used in a
> fuel cell for power. WOW!
>
> With inexpensive, thin-film photovoltaic cell's coming online (like
> nanosolar and others) as well as breakthroughs like this, we are on
> the verge of having an energy revolution in this country and worldwide
> that will come to harness solar power in a huge way.
>
> This is not your water-powering-vehicles project-in-the-garage by your
> crazy uncle stuff. These are real scientists in grant-supported
> research labs making big-time advances along with private-equity
> banking manufacturers to roll out inexpensive solar cells.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 15:19:27 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:19:27 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Algae Biodiesel
Message-ID: <001101c8f353$1d48e210$466a2544@john>

Oil producing algae needs sun and  water , fresh or salt. They say sea water
could be piped to where there's plenty of sun but all the left over salt could
be a problem . I know of a sunny place that could use the salt .

John

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 31 15:24:36 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:24:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuels technology breakthrough
In-Reply-To: <70A27592-B726-4F21-8DB7-77740156A838@comcast.net>
References: <70A27592-B726-4F21-8DB7-77740156A838@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <48922D94.6010903@mayfco.com>

Neat sounding! But so far, only on a lab scale and that can be very 
small indeed. Scaling factors have to be included. It seems like there 
is one more step to be taken though. It needs a photovoltaic to make it 
go and isn't that only in day time? Also, it almost sounds like 
electrolysis.. put cobalt and phosphates in water and applie electricity 
to it... hydrogen and oxy became split? Huh, isn't that electrolysis?  
The one more step would be to include CO2 in the equation and let that 
reduce the green house gas while making fuel ala chh4 or ? and free 
oxygen... lots of potential side experiments here.

mayf
Wester Potter wrote:

> From another list ...  Interesting read!
>
>Scientists have figured out how to cheaply and simply replicate  
>plant's photosynthesis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.
>
>http://www.forbes.com/business/2008/07/30 /nocera-solar-power-biz- 
>energy-cz_jf_0731s olar.html?feed=rss_business
>
>The findings will be published in the Journal Science tomorrow.
>
>It is presumed that the chemical reaction can be powered by existing  
>photovoltaic technology. The hydrogen and oxygen particles freed from  
>the reaction can in turn be used in a fuel cell. Solar power,  
>splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen which are in turn used in a  
>fuel cell for power. WOW!
>
>With inexpensive, thin-film photovoltaic cell's coming online (like  
>nanosolar and others) as well as breakthroughs like this, we are on  
>the verge of having an energy revolution in this country and worldwide  
>that will come to harness solar power in a huge way.
>
>This is not your water-powering-vehicles project-in-the-garage by your  
>crazy uncle stuff. These are real scientists in grant-supported  
>research labs making big-time advances along with private-equity  
>banking manufacturers to roll out inexpensive solar cells.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 18:16:24 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:16:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuels technology breakthrough
References: <70A27592-B726-4F21-8DB7-77740156A838@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001501c8f36b$d7e3a610$6501a8c0@S>

My oldest son, David, who was there in the picture with the original Road's
End Gang in 1986, is working as a mechanical engineer for a solar company no
one has ever heard of. (They are pretty secretive).  I can tell you this
much about it.  There is a lot of private equity money being invested there.
And they are not the only ones.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 1:29 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuels technology breakthrough
> This is not your water-powering-vehicles project-in-the-garage by your
> crazy uncle stuff. These are real scientists in grant-supported
> research labs making big-time advances along with private-equity
> banking manufacturers to roll out inexpensive solar cells.

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Jul 31 18:50:22 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:50:22 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuels technology breakthrough
In-Reply-To: <70A27592-B726-4F21-8DB7-77740156A838@comcast.net>
References: <70A27592-B726-4F21-8DB7-77740156A838@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <01f201c8f370$96119300$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Wes;

I haven't done the math but I suspect that you would have to pave the state
of Arizona with thin- film solar cells to get enough electricity to generate
enough hydrogen to power all the cars in this country.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Wester Potter
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 1:30 PM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuels technology breakthrough

 From another list ...  Interesting read!

Scientists have figured out how to cheaply and simply replicate  
plant's photosynthesis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.

http://www.forbes.com/business/2008/07/30 /nocera-solar-power-biz- 
energy-cz_jf_0731s olar.html?feed=rss_business

The findings will be published in the Journal Science tomorrow.

It is presumed that the chemical reaction can be powered by existing  
photovoltaic technology. The hydrogen and oxygen particles freed from  
the reaction can in turn be used in a fuel cell. Solar power,  
splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen which are in turn used in a  
fuel cell for power. WOW!

With inexpensive, thin-film photovoltaic cell's coming online (like  
nanosolar and others) as well as breakthroughs like this, we are on  
the verge of having an energy revolution in this country and worldwide  
that will come to harness solar power in a huge way.

This is not your water-powering-vehicles project-in-the-garage by your  
crazy uncle stuff. These are real scientists in grant-supported  
research labs making big-time advances along with private-equity  
banking manufacturers to roll out inexpensive solar cells.
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfever at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 20:21:32 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:21:32 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] fuel and such
Message-ID: <002301c8f37d$50be9cf0$6501a8c0@dim8100>

GM published an SAE paper last spring about a newly revised 4.7 liter
Duramax diesel for 2010. It will be available in light trucks and some
premium cars. Additionally, a small, 2.7 liter diesel is destined for the
European market. All the manufacturers (BMW, Honda, Chrysler, etc) have
small, clean (meeting 2010 emission requirements) slated for 010. My 6,300
lb Duramax easily gets 20MPG. And if I painfully drive various speed limits
it gets 21 mpg. Folks, that is a 6,400 lb vehicle with trailer towing
mirrors! Those mirrors alone must cost me 2 mpg in drag!  So if you put a
small, clean, 2010 diesel, in a low drag, light weight body (as Dave and Ed
suggested) then gear it 2.0:1 overall; tell me you won't get phenomenal
mileage. Don't react to the 2.0:1 gear. Torque is the name of the game in
diesels and fuel efficiency. Friction comes with horsepower. It will never
be as efficient as a lower rpm torque motor.



BTW, these designs have been on the drawing boards for 3 or more years. Just
because the public is unaware of corporate stealth doesn't make the
manufacturers Neanderthal engineers. Improved technology may be a solution
to a problem but it comes at a price. It can't be utilized until wallets
open up and that trade is now occurring.  -Elon

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 31 20:46:51 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:46:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Anti-freeze Disposal..
Message-ID: <4892791B.4080803@mayfco.com>

Ok, so I am gonna change my ford over to a different anti-freeze 
manufacturer. Ford approved Zerex G05 for my powerstroke motor. So I 
get's myself 4 gallons of the orange stuff and am reading the back of 
the bottle. It says to dispose of anti-freeze in an approved state and 
local manner, don't pour it on the ground but a "sanitary sever system" 
is ok... Now just what the heck is a sanitary sewer system...sorta 
sounds like an oxymoron to me. I gather that a storm drain  is not such 
a beast, but is a septic system satisfactory? Will that stuff kill all 
the bacteria in my septic system?

What do I do with 33 quarts of the stuff, lol...


mayf

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 31 20:50:14 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:50:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] fuel and such
References: <002301c8f37d$50be9cf0$6501a8c0@dim8100>
Message-ID: <000401c8f381$536dba90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Little diesels are all over Europe. They laugh at us driving a Prius 
thinking 45 mpg is good. Major problem is the fuel. If there were suddenly a 
1,000,000 more diesels on the american highways the price would be $8 a 
gallon from the demand. The refineries are not geared up for diesel and 
would clame 5 years to do so...............
----- Original Message ----- 

> GM published an SAE paper last spring about a newly revised 4.7 liter
> Duramax diesel for 2010. It will be available in light trucks and some
> premium cars. Additionally, a small, 2.7 liter diesel is destined for the
> European market. All the manufacturers (BMW, Honda, Chrysler, etc) have
> small, clean (meeting 2010 emission requirements) slated for 010. 

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Thu Jul 31 22:02:52 2008
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:02:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuels technology breakthrough
In-Reply-To: <01f201c8f370$96119300$0200a8c0@DBTech>
References: <70A27592-B726-4F21-8DB7-77740156A838@comcast.net>
	<01f201c8f370$96119300$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <F8687400-923D-4F4A-9B22-94712EFBF69E@gmail.com>

Guys,

Hydrogen from solar isn't a new idea. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJVzySk0Pks 
 >  They're just finding new ways to do it now.

~Jon

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Thu Jul 31 22:08:36 2008
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:08:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] High mileage homebuilts
In-Reply-To: <002a01c8f31e$8eda51a0$6501a8c0@S>
References: <000901c8f2b6$fe554570$466a2544@john>
	<001f01c8f319$916c6070$6501a8c0@S>
	<D41C52D0AD28445BB374BCCFD02DCEB6@DaveSatellite>
	<002a01c8f31e$8eda51a0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <2B2A2728-716C-493B-A7EE-AFCF00607034@gmail.com>

On Jul 31, 2008, at 8:03 AM, Ed Weldon wrote:

> Dave --
> I sympathize with you regarding Connecticut's approach to registering
> vehicles.  I used to live in New Jersey where it was similarly  
> difficult to
> register anything homebuilt.  California has always been much more  
> liberal.
> I believe that as long as a vehicle passes the reasonable safety
> requirements of the DMV referees and meets the smog requirements for  
> the
> engine you use you are "in".  Any CA guys on this list been through  
> that in
> the last year or so?  Am I anywhere near correct in my statement  
> above?
> Ed Weldon

I can't say for sure (as I've never actually dealt with it), but as I  
understand it, the other caveat is that the motor has be of the same  
year as the body, or newer. Then it has to meet the smog standards for  
the year that it was made (the engine).

I've been toying with the idea of putting a small 2 liter mitsubishi  
diesel in my eclipse for near half a decade... but I am still partial  
to the 7000 rpm powerband of the 2.0 turbo, and it still get's 25+ mpg  
most the time.

~Jon

From saltfever at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 22:45:00 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:45:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] fuel and such
In-Reply-To: <000401c8f381$536dba90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <000c01c8f391$5b74fc20$6501a8c0@dim8100>

In theory a gallon of oil contains more diesel than gasoline and refining is
cheaper. However, since the demand (volume) for gas is greater, hydro
cracking (or is that hydrogenation?) is performed in refining to yield a
greater percentage of gas out of a gallon than normal. If your 1M users
switched from gas to diesel the refinery's costs would be less. Although, I
don't know the extra cost for refining new LOW sulfur content diesel. But
you are right . . . it would take years to see a lower cost result :-)
-Elon

-----Original Message-----
From: J.D. Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net]
Little diesels are all over Europe. They laugh at us driving a Prius
thinking 45 mpg is good. Major problem is the fuel. If there were suddenly a

1,000,000 more diesels on the american highways the price would be $8 a
gallon from the demand. The refineries are not geared up for diesel and
would clame 5 years to do so...............