From NT788 at comcast.net  Fri Feb  1 11:27:32 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:27:32 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but w/implications
Message-ID: <020120081827.261.47A36494000AF790000001052212020784C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Well could I build myself a 50cc micro car then? Heck no, C.A.R.B, EPA Nancy Pelosi, ect. and the rule makers find ways to ban inovation!You can only save money by spending money!I.E. buy a hybred. Jack-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> 

> Wes, you are just too funny! We wont even bury waste in Yucky Mountain 
> here so what are we going to do with a country full of nuclear waste? 
> Say they sell 10,000 of these to American users... who gets the boill 
> for dumping the wastes? Where does it go? And how long will it take the 
> NRC to approve this thing? Right now the environmental impact statement 
> can take 10 years to get through the system and that includes no 
> construction time at all. Then where do we get lithium 6 isotops for the 
> nuetron absorber? I think I will let the first accident be in Japan, 
> lol... 
> 
> and yet... nah...to many side effects, mainly watse products... remember 
> our plants were originally going to make power too cheap to meter! Well, 
> that certainly didn't happen. 
> 
> I wonder what these doohickeys cost? A big plant has a 1000 megawatts 
> electrical and about 3000 megawatts thermal energy... 100x smaller that 
> would be 10 megawatts and 30 megawatts thermal. That is a LOT of waste 
> heat... 
> 
> nah, I'll pass... 
> 
> but clever, none the less... but wait...maybe we coould sell them to the 
> Taliban or Islamic countries? Tell them that it is absolutely safe? 
> 
> mayf 
> Wester Potter wrote: 
> 
> >Cheaper electricity could make battery power and hydrogen production 
> >more affordable. This is interesting! 
> > 
> >http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news-toshiba-micro-nuclear-12.1 
> 7b.html 
> >_______________________________________________ 
> >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> > 
> >Land-speed mailing list 
> > 
> >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com 
> > 
> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Fri Feb  1 15:18:44 2008
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 17:18:44 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR but w/implications
In-Reply-To: <020120081827.261.47A36494000AF790000001052212020784C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20080201171844.RD61O.183193.root@eastrmwml14.mgt.cox.net>

Falls under  "No good deed  unpunished, no idea unsquashed, no little guy  given quarter. " 
    
Good thing the EPA wasn't in business around the time of the flood...   Genesis (revised)  42, 16-17   "And the Lord submitted His impact statement to the powers that be.  And he waited. And he despaired. And Noah forsook sailing lessons to hove a cabin, twenty cubits by twenty cubits,  from stout logs."  



50cc micro car - Pelosi.....   You can only save money by spending money!I.E. buy a hybred. Jack-------------- Original message 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Feb  1 16:42:18 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:42:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Non LSR
Message-ID: <00dd01c8652c$15738dc0$6401a8c0@Glens>

----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Barrett
To: Wester Potter ;Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 4:39 PM
Subject: Non LSR


Ham and eggs....A days work for a chicken,a lifetime commitment for a pig

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Fri Feb  1 18:11:13 2008
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:11:13 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] BBC Carrillo Rod
Message-ID: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net>

List,
Does anyone have an extra Carrillo Rod for a big block Chevy? I need 
one (damaged will do) for a sample. I will return it.

Thanks,
Skip

From dlodom at charter.net  Sat Feb  2 10:57:00 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 09:57:00 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Free trans to good home
Message-ID: <47A4AEEC.4020601@charter.net>

Still cleaning up around here. I have a  1953 automatic out of a 
Chrysler 331 hemi car. Its the one that is a cast iron 3 speed with a 
converter. I forgot what they called it. Has the safety clutch pedal so 
you could shift it or fluid drive it.   Its heavy and going to the scrap 
place if no one wants it.     Doug Odom in big ditch

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sat Feb  2 11:06:41 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:06:41 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Free trans to good home
Message-ID: <020220081806.23524.47A4B1310000009500005BE42216549976C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Fluid drive, Its got a clutch pedal just in case, like a man has tits just in case he should get pregnant! I could use the fluid coupling for scutiny. Thanks jack

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: DougOdom <dlodom at charter.net> 

> Still cleaning up around here. I have a 1953 automatic out of a 
> Chrysler 331 hemi car. Its the one that is a cast iron 3 speed with a 
> converter. I forgot what they called it. Has the safety clutch pedal so 
> you could shift it or fluid drive it. Its heavy and going to the scrap 
> place if no one wants it. Doug Odom in big ditch 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Feb  2 12:13:42 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 14:13:42 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Free trans to good home
Message-ID: <000301c865cf$b9d09770$446b2544@john>

Chevy R&D / Jim Hall tried that combination in their Chaparral CanAm car 
with a torque converter and the Hewland transaxle .


> Still cleaning up around here. I have a  1953 automatic out of a
> Chrysler 331 hemi car. Its the one that is a cast iron 3 speed with a
> converter. I forgot what they called it. Has the safety clutch pedal so
> you could shift it or fluid drive it.   Its heavy and going to the scrap
> place if no one wants it.     Doug Odom in big ditch

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Feb  2 12:59:13 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:59:13 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Free trans to good home
In-Reply-To: <000301c865cf$b9d09770$446b2544@john>
References: <000301c865cf$b9d09770$446b2544@john>
Message-ID: <47A4CB91.8000003@wildblue.net>

That transmission is a 4 speed. 1&2 in low range and 3&4 in high. A Hot Rod
magazine described how drag racers forced it to quick shift from 1 to 2. 
I drove
one and got it in second gear after several tries. You have to wind the 
S--t out of
it low lift, then wait for the engine to slow to almost idle before the 
automatic
shift. 99.9 percent of owners just shifted to drive instead of waiting 
all day for the
1-2 shift. It was a beautiful design, if you didn't have to use it. Also 
super strong.

Bryan



John Burk wrote:
> Chevy R&D / Jim Hall tried that combination in their Chaparral CanAm car 
> with a torque converter and the Hewland transaxle .
>
>
>   
>> Still cleaning up around here. I have a  1953 automatic out of a
>> Chrysler 331 hemi car. Its the one that is a cast iron 3 speed with a
>> converter. I forgot what they called it. Has the safety clutch pedal so
>> you could shift it or fluid drive it.   Its heavy and going to the scrap
>> place if no one wants it.     Doug Odom in big ditch
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as b.a.savage at earthlink.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Sat Feb  2 13:29:35 2008
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:29:35 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Blower Injector
Message-ID: <20080202202935.C5A7F187676@autox.team.net>

List:
Does anyone have an old 2 holer injector for a 6-71? Or one that 
comes straight out of the blower.....any brand and number of holes 
will do. Still looking for an old Carrillo rod for a BBC.
Thanks everybody,
Skip

From dlodom at charter.net  Sat Feb  2 13:37:07 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:37:07 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Free trans to good home
In-Reply-To: <020220081806.23524.47A4B1310000009500005BE42216549976C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
References: <020220081806.23524.47A4B1310000009500005BE42216549976C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47A4D473.6010100@charter.net>

Jack, Like I said, first one to pick it up. Do you know anyone coming 
south from your place that might get it for you? I'm 3 hours south of 
you I would guess.    Pismo Beach area.       Doug     805  489-6228 
shop     805 458-0802 cell

NT788 at comcast.net wrote:

> Fluid drive, Its got a clutch pedal just in case, like a man has tits 
> just in case he should get pregnant! I could use the fluid coupling 
> for scutiny. Thanks jack
>  
>
>     -------------- Original message --------------
>     From: DougOdom <dlodom at charter.net>
>
>     > Still cleaning up around here. I have a 1953 automatic out of a
>     > Chrysler 331 hemi car. Its the one that is a cast iron 3 speed
>     with a
>     > converter. I forgot what they called it. Has the safety clutch
>     pedal so
>     > you could shift it or fluid drive it. Its heavy and going to the
>     scrap
>     > place if no one wants it. Doug Odom in big ditch

From dlodom at charter.net  Sat Feb  2 13:42:20 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:42:20 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Free trans to good home
In-Reply-To: <000301c865cf$b9d09770$446b2544@john>
References: <000301c865cf$b9d09770$446b2544@john>
Message-ID: <47A4D5AC.1020402@charter.net>

John Burk wrote:

>Chevy R&D / Jim Hall tried that combination in their Chaparral CanAm car 
>with a torque converter and the Hewland transaxle .
>
>John, I believe that was a modified Powerglide. I saw the unit. The same guy built a 5 speed in a Ford top loader that ran in some road races when you were only supposed to have a 4 speed.   ( nascar)   LOL   was not cheating because they never found it.
>  
>

Doug Odom in big ditch

>>Still cleaning up around here. I have a  1953 automatic out of a
>>Chrysler 331 hemi car. Its the one that is a cast iron 3 speed with a
>>converter. I forgot what they called it. Has the safety clutch pedal so
>>you could shift it or fluid drive it.   Its heavy and going to the scrap
>>place if no one wants it.     Doug Odom in big ditch
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sat Feb  2 13:59:14 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:59:14 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] BBC Carrillo Rod
In-Reply-To: <47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com>
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net>
	<47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net>

Actually trying to make a one litre, single cylinder engine with at 
least 100 lbs of manifold pressure. And then go to 2 litre.............
Skip




At 05:54 PM 2/1/2008, drmayf wrote:
>No, I don't have one, but my curiosity is up! What's it for? 
>Inquiring minds wana know..
>
>mayf
>Skip Higginbotham wrote:
>
>>List,
>>Does anyone have an extra Carrillo Rod for a big block Chevy? I 
>>need one (damaged will do) for a sample. I will return it.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Skip
>>_______________________________________________
>>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Feb  2 16:55:33 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 18:55:33 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Free trans to good home
Message-ID: <001101c865f7$19742a30$446b2544@john>

Doug

 I looked in Van Valkenburgh's book . What Chevy made for Chaparral were
custom 1 , 2 and 3 speed spur gear transmissions with custom torque converters
. They won a lot of races with the single speed before somebody noticed Hall
never took his hands off the steering wheel .


John Burk wrote:

Chevy R&D / Jim Hall tried that combination in their Chaparral CanAm car
with a torque converter and the Hewland transaxle .

John, I believe that was a modified Powerglide. I saw the unit. The same guy
built a 5 speed in a Ford top loader that ran in some road races when you were
only supposed to have a 4 speed.   ( nascar)   LOL   was not cheating because
they never found it.

Doug Odom in big ditch

Still cleaning up around here. I have a  1953 automatic out of a
Chrysler 331 hemi car. Its the one that is a cast iron 3 speed with a
converter. I forgot what they called it. Has the safety clutch pedal so
you could shift it or fluid drive it.   Its heavy and going to the scrap
place if no one wants it.     Doug Odom in big ditch
    _______________________________________________

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun Feb  3 11:15:42 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:15:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
In-Reply-To: <20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net>
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net><47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com>
	<20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Skip;

Be prepared for LOTS of vibration from that single cylinder. Anyone remember
the old British single cylinder bikes such as Triumph 500, etc?

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Skip Higginbotham
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 1:59 PM
To: drmayf at mayfco.com
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] BBC Carrillo Rod

Actually trying to make a one litre, single cylinder engine with at 
least 100 lbs of manifold pressure. And then go to 2 litre.............
Skip




At 05:54 PM 2/1/2008, drmayf wrote:
>No, I don't have one, but my curiosity is up! What's it for? 
>Inquiring minds wana know..
>
>mayf
>Skip Higginbotham wrote:
>
>>List,
>>Does anyone have an extra Carrillo Rod for a big block Chevy? I 
>>need one (damaged will do) for a sample. I will return it.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Skip

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sun Feb  3 11:43:05 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:43:05 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
In-Reply-To: <007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech>
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net><47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com><20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net>
	<007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite>

With 100lbs of manifold pressure at least you won't need much of an ignition 
system once you get to that point ought to light just fine without a spark..
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: "'Skip Higginbotham'" <saltrat at pahrump.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine


> Skip;
>
> Be prepared for LOTS of vibration from that single cylinder. Anyone 
> remember
> the old British single cylinder bikes such as Triumph 500, etc?
>
> Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
> Skip Higginbotham
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 1:59 PM
> To: drmayf at mayfco.com
> Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] BBC Carrillo Rod
>
> Actually trying to make a one litre, single cylinder engine with at
> least 100 lbs of manifold pressure. And then go to 2 litre.............
> Skip
>
>
>
>
> At 05:54 PM 2/1/2008, drmayf wrote:
>>No, I don't have one, but my curiosity is up! What's it for?
>>Inquiring minds wana know..
>>
>>mayf
>>Skip Higginbotham wrote:
>>
>>>List,
>>>Does anyone have an extra Carrillo Rod for a big block Chevy? I
>>>need one (damaged will do) for a sample. I will return it.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as ddahlgren at snet.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Sun Feb  3 12:55:47 2008
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 14:55:47 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
In-Reply-To: <AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <20080203145547.H5197.195888.root@eastrmwml14.mgt.cox.net>

   Once you get to those kind of spontaneous-detonation temps,   ignition timing is both moot, and random.  Water/alcohol injection and a direct port timed fuel spray might help, along with a dry ice and nitrous-chilled intercooler and a tunable  counterbalance shaft.     
   Actually the big Brit one lunger bikes  - or at least the three  in my in my past  - didn't vibrate;  they just sort of threw themselves around at idle like a  washing machine with a single blanket  then smoothed out to a dull shake.    I did have  a one lung Lister diesel in a sailboat that was a real pile driver - idling out of gear in dead calm, you could feel the boat trying to get away from all the thrashing...   

---- Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net> wrote: 
> With 100lbs of manifold pressure at least you won't need much of an ignition 
> system once you get to that point ought to light just fine without a spark..
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
> To: "'Skip Higginbotham'" <saltrat at pahrump.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:15 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
> 
> 
> > Skip;
> >
> > Be prepared for LOTS of vibration from that single cylinder. Anyone 
> > remember
> > the old British single cylinder bikes such as Triumph 500, etc?
> >
> > Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
> > [mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
> > Skip Higginbotham
> > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 1:59 PM
> > To: drmayf at mayfco.com
> > Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] BBC Carrillo Rod
> >
> > Actually trying to make a one litre, single cylinder engine with at
> > least 100 lbs of manifold pressure. And then go to 2 litre.............
> > Skip
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 05:54 PM 2/1/2008, drmayf wrote:
> >>No, I don't have one, but my curiosity is up! What's it for?
> >>Inquiring minds wana know..
> >>
> >>mayf
> >>Skip Higginbotham wrote:
> >>
> >>>List,
> >>>Does anyone have an extra Carrillo Rod for a big block Chevy? I
> >>>need one (damaged will do) for a sample. I will return it.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>Skip
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > You are subscribed as ddahlgren at snet.net
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as ifixmgs at cox.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Feb  3 12:56:51 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:56:51 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
In-Reply-To: <007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech>
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net><47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com>
	<20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net>
	<007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <47A61C83.8060506@wildblue.net>

There was a reason they were called "Thumpers".

Bryan


neil at dbelltech.com wrote:
> Skip;
>
> Be prepared for LOTS of vibration from that single cylinder. Anyone remember
> the old British single cylinder bikes such as Triumph 500, etc?
>
> Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
> Skip Higginbotham
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 1:59 PM
> To: drmayf at mayfco.com
> Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] BBC Carrillo Rod
>
> Actually trying to make a one litre, single cylinder engine with at 
> least 100 lbs of manifold pressure. And then go to 2 litre.............
> Skip
>
>
>
>
> At 05:54 PM 2/1/2008, drmayf wrote:
>   
>> No, I don't have one, but my curiosity is up! What's it for? 
>> Inquiring minds wana know..
>>
>> mayf
>> Skip Higginbotham wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> List,
>>> Does anyone have an extra Carrillo Rod for a big block Chevy? I 
>>> need one (damaged will do) for a sample. I will return it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Skip
>>>       
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as b.a.savage at earthlink.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Feb  3 13:01:19 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:01:19 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
In-Reply-To: <AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite>
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net><47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com><20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net>
	<007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <47A61D8F.1090800@wildblue.net>

Skip,

What are you going to inject into the cylinder?

Gasoline, diesel fuel, bunker C,....?

Bryan




Dave Dahlgren wrote:
> With 100lbs of manifold pressure at least you won't need much of an ignition 
> system once you get to that point ought to light just fine without a spark..
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
> To: "'Skip Higginbotham'" <saltrat at pahrump.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:15 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Feb  3 13:35:07 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:35:07 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
In-Reply-To: <47A61D8F.1090800@wildblue.net>
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net><47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com><20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net>
	<007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite>
	<47A61D8F.1090800@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <47A6257B.20305@wildblue.net>

Skip,

Kidding aside, It sounds like a fascinating project.

If you are not familiar with HCCI research, you might
want to check this out:
http://www.me.berkeley.edu/cal/HCCI/

It lists several SAE papers on the subject.

NOTE: A completely homogeneous fuel air charge will not
ping or detonate and cause damage that we are used to seeing.
The whole cylinder of fuel & air goes off all at once. There
is no flame front.
Potential for much higher efficiency and power.

Have fun,
Bryan

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Feb  3 14:09:47 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:09:47 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
In-Reply-To: <47A61D8F.1090800@wildblue.net>
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net>
	<47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com>
	<20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net>
	<007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite>
	<47A61D8F.1090800@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <20080203210945.C5803187870@autox.team.net>

We'll try several different fuels to see which makes best power. Some 
liquid and some gaseous. Ought to be fun. Lighting without spark also 
means without timing.......combustion chamber shape will be important, I think.
I appreciate the helpful comments.
Skip




At 12:01 PM 2/3/2008, Bryan Savage wrote:
>Skip,
>
>What are you going to inject into the cylinder?
>
>Gasoline, diesel fuel, bunker C,....?
>
>Bryan
>
>
>
>
>Dave Dahlgren wrote:
>>With 100lbs of manifold pressure at least you won't need much of an 
>>ignition system once you get to that point ought to light just fine 
>>without a spark..
>>Dave
>>----- Original Message ----- From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
>>To: "'Skip Higginbotham'" <saltrat at pahrump.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>>Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:15 PM
>>Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Feb  3 14:25:27 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:25:27 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net><47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com><20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net><007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech><AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite><47A61D8F.1090800@wildblue.net>
	<20080203210945.C5803187870@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <003601c866ab$5275ed00$6501a8c0@S>

When I worked in the Thiokol Dynastar test lab 40 years ago I recall that
the guy who had the most fun was the test engineer responsible for the
single cylinder test engine.  And of all of us he was the only one who
wasn't a gearhead.  The wonderful thing about singles is that when you had
to change parts you only needed to deal with one or two instead of 4,8,or
16.  I think it had a lot to do with the gripes from the machinists like
"......_____ engineers; I hope you don't want more than one of those..."
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>; "Dave Dahlgren"
<ddahlgren at snet.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine


> We'll try several different fuels to see which makes best power. Some
> liquid and some gaseous. Ought to be fun. Lighting without spark also
> means without timing.......combustion chamber shape will be important, I
think.
> I appreciate the helpful comments.
> Skip
>
>
>
>
> At 12:01 PM 2/3/2008, Bryan Savage wrote:
> >Skip,
> >
> >What are you going to inject into the cylinder?
> >
> >Gasoline, diesel fuel, bunker C,....?
> >
> >Bryan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Dave Dahlgren wrote:
> >>With 100lbs of manifold pressure at least you won't need much of an
> >>ignition system once you get to that point ought to light just fine
> >>without a spark..
> >>Dave
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
> >>To: "'Skip Higginbotham'" <saltrat at pahrump.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> >>Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> >>Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:15 PM
> >>Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as 23.weldon at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Feb  3 14:27:06 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:27:06 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net><47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com><20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net><007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech><AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite><47A61D8F.1090800@wildblue.net>
	<20080203210945.C5803187870@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <003a01c866ab$89b8f5a0$6501a8c0@S>

When I worked in the Thiokol Dynastar test lab 40 years ago I recall that
the guy who had the most fun was the test engineer responsible for the
single cylinder test engine.  And of all of us he was the only one who
wasn't a gearhead.  The wonderful thing about singles is that when you had
to change parts you only needed to deal with one or two instead of 4,8,or
16.  I think it had a lot to do with the gripes from the machinists like
"......_____ engineers; I hope you don't want more than one of those..."
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>; "Dave Dahlgren"
<ddahlgren at snet.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine

> We'll try several different fuels to see which makes best power. Some
> liquid and some gaseous. Ought to be fun. Lighting without spark also
> means without timing.......combustion chamber shape will be important, I
think.
> I appreciate the helpful comments.
> Skip

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sun Feb  3 14:51:08 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:51:08 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
Message-ID: <020320082151.19604.47A6374C0006271500004C942214756402C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Glow plugs?

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Skip Higginbotham <saltrat at pahrump.com> 

> We'll try several different fuels to see which makes best power. Some 
> liquid and some gaseous. Ought to be fun. Lighting without spark also 
> means without timing.......combustion chamber shape will be important, I think. 
> I appreciate the helpful comments. 
> Skip 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 12:01 PM 2/3/2008, Bryan Savage wrote: 
> >Skip, 
> > 
> >What are you going to inject into the cylinder? 
> > 
> >Gasoline, diesel fuel, bunker C,....? 
> > 
> >Bryan 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >Dave Dahlgren wrote: 
> >>With 100lbs of manifold pressure at least you won't need much of an 
> >>ignition system once you get to that point ought to light just fine 
> >>without a spark.. 
> >>Dave 
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: 
> >>To: "'Skip Higginbotham'" ; 
> >>Cc: 
> >>Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:15 PM 
> >>Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Feb  3 15:41:30 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:41:30 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
In-Reply-To: <47A6257B.20305@wildblue.net>
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net>
	<47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com>
	<20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net>
	<007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite>
	<47A61D8F.1090800@wildblue.net> <47A6257B.20305@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <20080203224127.B977A187655@autox.team.net>

Bryan,
I have read some about HCCI and while it is interesting, relatively 
high power outputs don't look like they are in the cards without a 
considerable amount of manifold pressure. So far experimenters have 
been heating the intake air with a heater.....the same could be 
accomplished through compressing the intake air but not using an 
intercooler. It also seems to me that a homogeneous fuel air charge 
needs to be created at a relatively slow pace. While the detonation 
characteristics are positive, it looks like significant power may not 
be. It will be fun to see where this goes (probably up in smoke) as I 
will first try to load up the cylinder with pressure and pick a fuel 
to match it in burn characteristics while using the heat generated by 
the intake air compression. Or inject the fuel into the hot intake 
air stream and homogenize it that way. Then to control it! Really not 
much different than multiple sparkplugs...just more of "them". Oh, 
likely not black oil.(-:
Thanks,
Skip




At 12:35 PM 2/3/2008, Bryan Savage wrote:

>Skip,
>
>Kidding aside, It sounds like a fascinating project.
>
>If you are not familiar with HCCI research, you might
>want to check this out:
>http://www.me.berkeley.edu/cal/HCCI/
>
>It lists several SAE papers on the subject.
>
>NOTE: A completely homogeneous fuel air charge will not
>ping or detonate and cause damage that we are used to seeing.
>The whole cylinder of fuel & air goes off all at once. There
>is no flame front.
>Potential for much higher efficiency and power.
>
>Have fun,
>Bryan

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sun Feb  3 17:11:55 2008
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 19:11:55 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net><47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com><20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net><007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech><AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite>
	<47A61D8F.1090800@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c866c2$947a22e0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

"bunker C"-----where'd that come from ?

I haven't heard of bunker C since 1956 when I was trying to measure its 
sodium content. The stuff used to get contaminated with sea water when it 
was pumped into the oil tanks for ballast during the "empty" leg of the 
round trip.

The sodium did bad things to gas turbine blades.

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine


> Skip,
>
> What are you going to inject into the cylinder?
>
> Gasoline, diesel fuel, bunker C,....?
>
> Bryan

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Feb  3 17:11:00 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:11:00 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
In-Reply-To: <20080203224127.B977A187655@autox.team.net>
References: <20080202011116.BE31D18764D@autox.team.net>
	<47A3CD55.2010900@mayfco.com>
	<20080202205919.2AA90187642@autox.team.net>
	<007301c86690$ca82e980$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<AC7735D2ECA741A5AA1B0E5E7217B08F@DaveSatellite>
	<47A61D8F.1090800@wildblue.net> <47A6257B.20305@wildblue.net>
	<20080203224127.B977A187655@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <47A65814.1020906@wildblue.net>

Skip,

A couple of additional notes.

It was reported the the 1,500cc Honda F1 Turbo motor
used exhaust heat around the intake ports, probably
to help vaporize the fuel (5% Gasoline, 95% ???).

Good old Smokey Y. built a small engine that ran at very
high temperature, and never pinged. The fuel air mix
went through a small turbo that produced a homogeneous
fuel air charge. Boost was only a pound or two, it was
a mixer. It ran very strong and got good mileage.
It had spark ignition.

If HCCI improves the efficiency 40%, the HP should also
increase at least 30%.

Bryan





Skip Higginbotham wrote:
> Bryan,
> I have read some about HCCI and while it is interesting, relatively 
> high power outputs don't look like they are in the cards without a 
> considerable amount of manifold pressure. So far experimenters have 
> been heating the intake air with a heater.....the same could be 
> accomplished through compressing the intake air but not using an 
> intercooler. It also seems to me that a homogeneous fuel air charge 
> needs to be created at a relatively slow pace. While the detonation 
> characteristics are positive, it looks like significant power may not 
> be. It will be fun to see where this goes (probably up in smoke) as I 
> will first try to load up the cylinder with pressure and pick a fuel 
> to match it in burn characteristics while using the heat generated by 
> the intake air compression. Or inject the fuel into the hot intake 
> air stream and homogenize it that way. Then to control it! Really not 
> much different than multiple sparkplugs...just more of "them". Oh, 
> likely not black oil.(-:
> Thanks,
> Skip

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun Feb  3 17:16:17 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 19:16:17 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Single Cylinder Engine
Message-ID: <003c01c866c3$29f6b8b0$446b2544@john>

Wikipedia has some interesting stuff on direct injected gasoline engines .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Mon Feb  4 16:19:22 2008
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:19:22 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Looking for stuff
Message-ID: <20080204231918.AD016187868@autox.team.net>

List,
Thank you all for considering my requests. Between Jim Dincau and Jim 
Price, the problem is now solved. Plus I got a lot of free advice on 
where to find existing information from a bunch of folks.....thank you.

Thanks again,
Skip

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Feb  5 12:23:02 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:23:02 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Off Topic - S-video connectiosn on Laptop..
Message-ID: <47A8B796.10305@mayfco.com>

Need so expert commentary here.  I have a laptop that has an S-video 
output, at lest I think it is output. Or is that an input from a video 
recorder...hmmm will have to find out.. But if it is an output I am 
wondering if I can connect this output to a projector which has a 
S-video input.  Any general thoughts here?

mayf

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Tue Feb  5 13:18:34 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 12:18:34 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Off Topic - S-video connectiosn on Laptop..
References: <47A8B796.10305@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <47A8C49A.00000F.05812@D3DP98F1>

Mayf,

I don't know what the technology is today, but I have a TView Micro device
that is used to convert a computer presentation to a projector or TV.
Http://www.focusinfo.com/

I think the function of the device is to convert signals from digital to
analog. With more things going digital, the S-Video may connect directly now
  My new TV has a S-Video port, so I would assume that the computer will use
the TV as a Monitor with a direct hookup. Don't know, just thinking out loud


Tom, Redding Ca - #216 D/FCC

From neil at dbelltech.com  Tue Feb  5 14:38:21 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:38:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Off Topic - S-video connectiosn on Laptop..
In-Reply-To: <47A8B796.10305@mayfco.com>
References: <47A8B796.10305@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <012d01c8683f$6ee79c00$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Mayf;

An S-video output on a laptop is rather unusual-- it may be a composite
video plus L & R audio output. Most projectors accept this.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
drmayf
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 12:23 PM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] Off Topic - S-video connectiosn on Laptop..

Need so expert commentary here.  I have a laptop that has an S-video 
output, at lest I think it is output. Or is that an input from a video 
recorder...hmmm will have to find out.. But if it is an output I am 
wondering if I can connect this output to a projector which has a 
S-video input.  Any general thoughts here?

mayf
_______________________________________________

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Feb  5 19:31:27 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:31:27 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Off Topic - S-video connectiosn on Laptop..
In-Reply-To: <47A8B796.10305@mayfco.com>
References: <47A8B796.10305@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <47A91BFF.40801@mayfco.com>

Thanks to all who responded. I am now fully capable of s-video 
output...as soon as I get a cable, lol... Skip Higginbotham wins the 
cupie doll... he sent me to a site   http://svideo.com   videos even on 
how to do it!

Thanks, Skip

mayf
drmayf wrote:

>Need so expert commentary here.  I have a laptop that has an S-video 
>output, at lest I think it is output. Or is that an input from a video 
>recorder...hmmm will have to find out.. But if it is an output I am 
>wondering if I can connect this output to a projector which has a 
>S-video input.  Any general thoughts here?
>
>mayf
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Feb  6 09:02:20 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:02:20 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Another Header Gasket Q
Message-ID: <47A9DA0C.8090802@mayfco.com>

Ok, is their an optimum thickmess for a header flange gasket? DC Water 
Jet is gonna help me out but I need to acquire the copper material. Any 
thoughts here?

mayf

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Wed Feb  6 13:22:59 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 12:22:59 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Pardon my ignorance
Message-ID: <47AA1723.90400@wildblue.net>

List I spent a long time digging around the SCTA web site for this years
entry fee --- No Joy

Can some enlighten ignorant me?

Many thanks,
Bryan

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Feb  7 09:37:50 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 08:37:50 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...
Message-ID: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com>

Have any of you looked at these doohickeys? I wonder..   
http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html 
<http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html>

Also, my latest Harbor Freight has leakdown testers at $29.99. 
Undoubtedly not legacy tools but probably good enough to toss onti the 
race trailer for salt use.
"US General item number 94190-3AXH" catalog 161-c winter 2008.

mayf

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Feb  7 09:42:16 2008
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 08:42:16 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Test
Message-ID: <20080207164204.AEC3E18764C@autox.team.net>

Just to see if I'm still on the list.

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Thu Feb  7 09:44:23 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 11:44:23 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Test
References: <20080207164204.AEC3E18764C@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c869a8$b2d73690$6501a8c0@Rick>

No you are not

:=d
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:42 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Test


> Just to see if I'm still on the list.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as rick at rbmotorsports.com
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Feb  7 09:50:43 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:50:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Test
References: <20080207164204.AEC3E18764C@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <006701c869a9$97d33550$6501a8c0@Glens>

What list?  lol
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:42 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Test


> Just to see if I'm still on the list.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Feb  7 10:13:07 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:13:07 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Test
In-Reply-To: <006701c869a9$97d33550$6501a8c0@Glens>
References: <20080207164204.AEC3E18764C@autox.team.net>
	<006701c869a9$97d33550$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <47AB3C23.5080507@charter.net>

Glen Barrett wrote:

>What list?  lol
>Glen
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat at pahrump.com>
>To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:42 AM
>Subject: [Land-speed] Test
>
>
>  
>
>>Just to see if I'm still on the list.
>>    
>>
   LOL, I've spent my whole life on somebodys list. Most of the time not 
a good place to be.
Doug Odom in big ditch

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Feb  7 10:25:29 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 12:25:29 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...
In-Reply-To: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com>
References: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <3258678DB8F7488490B8AC2DB123B0C5@DaveSatellite>

If you look at the gains they are mostly in engines that are poorly designed 
combustion chamber.. The fuel takes a finite time to burn no matter how you 
start the fire... a million watts for 2 billionths of a second.. This guy 
must have worked with Carl Sagan.. billions and billions and billion of 
eons... sigh..
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:37 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...


> Have any of you looked at these doohickeys? I wonder..
> http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html
> <http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html>
>
> Also, my latest Harbor Freight has leakdown testers at $29.99.
> Undoubtedly not legacy tools but probably good enough to toss onti the
> race trailer for salt use.
> "US General item number 94190-3AXH" catalog 161-c winter 2008.
>
> mayf

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Feb  7 11:04:39 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 11:04:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Test/question 1
In-Reply-To: <47AB3C23.5080507@charter.net>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D169CD@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Someone recently told me the following:  Toploader trannys don't do well
at Bonneville because of the sustation high rpm causing lack of lube to
the needle bearings.

Old wive's tale?  Common knowledge?

Any info apprectiated.

David in Durango

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Feb  7 11:06:53 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 11:06:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Question #2
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D169CE@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

It seems someone once said that leaving all the salt accumulations on
the car might be good for the aerodynamics.



True? False?  Crazy?



Thanks in advance. . .



David in Durango

From SCowle at mentorcollege.edu  Thu Feb  7 11:08:31 2008
From: SCowle at mentorcollege.edu (Scott Cowle)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:08:31 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Winter fun
Message-ID: <47AB02CF02000038000066D2@gw.mentorcollege.edu>

Well, I got the membership form for next year for the ECTA, and this is just
the incentive I need to get to work on my car.I have the car stripped down and
am ready to start rebuilding, so the hard part is already over,since to me
taking it apart is painful.Anyways I was just wondering what projects people
have going on in the deep of the off season? Scott



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This communication may contain confidential or privileged
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Any review, use, or distribution or disclosure by others is
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From v4gr at rcn.com  Thu Feb  7 11:20:25 2008
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 10:20:25 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Test/question 1
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D169CD@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <001201c869b6$1ca2e120$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

Mine has been working OK. But maybe faster cars have trouble.  RF
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Test/question 1


> Someone recently told me the following:  Toploader trannys don't do well
> at Bonneville because of the sustation high rpm causing lack of lube to
> the needle bearings.
> 
> Old wive's tale?  Common knowledge?
> 
> Any info apprectiated.
> 
> David in Durango

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Feb  7 11:44:12 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 11:44:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Test/question 1
In-Reply-To: <001201c869b6$1ca2e120$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D169D0@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Thanks for the quick update Rich.

The issue was couched as a sustained high rpm run - I might think that
this could happen at any power level.  I understand many items (lube,
condition, etc) could contribute.

Now that I think about this . . . all the races the Cobras ran (Lemans
etc) . . . I'd just never heard this before.

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Rich Fox
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:20 AM
To: Adin, David
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Test/question 1

Mine has been working OK. But maybe faster cars have trouble.  RF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Test/question 1


> Someone recently told me the following:  Toploader trannys don't do
well
> at Bonneville because of the sustation high rpm causing lack of lube
to
> the needle bearings.
>
> Old wive's tale?  Common knowledge?
>
> Any info apprectiated.
>
> David in Durango
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsrvette at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  7 13:00:47 2008
From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 15:00:47 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Test/question 1
In-Reply-To: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D169D0@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
References: <001201c869b6$1ca2e120$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
	<DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D169D0@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c869c4$2b6d0290$824707b0$@com>

Adin,

I recently pulled the Jarrico toploader transmission out of the Berkeley and
sent it for overhaul.  It has been installed and run at Bonneville for more
than 10 years.  The only issue I found was a layer of crap in the bottom
(should have change the oil more frequently)and a white band of water that
was most likely condensate (same issue as before). All gears, dogs, etc
where in perfect condition with no pitting, cracking or even signs of wear.
This car has been 260+ with no issues.

Many Nascar transmissions are based on the Toploader and spin some pretty
good speeds for a lot longer than we ever run.  Most break for strength
reasons. There are several shops that will update a stock ford unit for you
should you feel it is necessary or you can buy a "racing toploader" aka
Jarrico, etc. with all the modification already done.  These shops also have
allot of empirical data on how much torque/hp/RPM a unit will take. I think
it is a good transmission and should work well for you.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Adin, David
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:44 PM
To: Rich Fox
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Test/question 1

Thanks for the quick update Rich.

The issue was couched as a sustained high rpm run - I might think that
this could happen at any power level.  I understand many items (lube,
condition, etc) could contribute.

Now that I think about this . . . all the races the Cobras ran (Lemans
etc) . . . I'd just never heard this before.

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Rich Fox
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:20 AM
To: Adin, David
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Test/question 1

Mine has been working OK. But maybe faster cars have trouble.  RF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Test/question 1


> Someone recently told me the following:  Toploader trannys don't do
well
> at Bonneville because of the sustation high rpm causing lack of lube
to
> the needle bearings.
>
> Old wive's tale?  Common knowledge?
>
> Any info apprectiated.
>
> David in Durango
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as lsrvette at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From advo at comcast.net  Thu Feb  7 13:23:48 2008
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:23:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Plenum volume discussion
In-Reply-To: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20080207202542.1C3E418766B@autox.team.net>

I am looking for a source to study regarding plenum volume determination for
boosted motors.  I am also interested in knowing what the effect of shape is
on plenum efficiency.  Also, whether there is anyone who can knowledgeably
comment on what differences there are between air alone vs air/fuel mixtures
running in a plenum.

Greg

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Thu Feb  7 14:16:17 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:16:17 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Test/question 1
In-Reply-To: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D169D0@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D169D0@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <47AB7521.60006@wildblue.net>

David,

Just use real synthetic MTF (manual transmission fluid), TORCO AMSOIL.
You need to remember to change the oil every 25 years or 10,000 passes
which ever comes first.

Bryan

 

Adin, David wrote:
> Thanks for the quick update Rich.
>
> The issue was couched as a sustained high rpm run - I might think that
> this could happen at any power level.  I understand many items (lube,
> condition, etc) could contribute.
>
> Now that I think about this . . . all the races the Cobras ran (Lemans
> etc) . . . I'd just never heard this before.
>
> David in Durango

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Thu Feb  7 14:43:40 2008
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 10:43:40 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Test/question 1
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D169CD@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <779CBD6C85F349F19808B4F1E72303AA@ChrisHarrisPC>

Only trouble we've had with our toploader is twisting input shafts slightly,
otherwise no problem. Have heard it said 750 hp or 600 ft/lbs should be
considered their safe limit.
Bob Gribble has supplied us with a Jerico for this year, super nice piece.
Chris H...........NZed.

  Someone recently told me the following:  Toploader trannys don't do well
  at Bonneville because of the sustation high rpm causing lack of lube to
  the needle bearings.

  Old wive's tale?  Common knowledge?

  Any info apprectiated.

  David in Durango
  _______________________________________________

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Thu Feb  7 15:03:18 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:03:18 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...
In-Reply-To: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com>
References: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <47AB8026.8080400@wildblue.net>

I looked at the web site. The plug may help on my '71 F-250
but it won't have any effect on my '79 Ford Ranger.
Why?
The wiring diagram that they display, is of a breaker point ignition.
 
Modern ignition system work much differently.
They talk about their thing generating a pulse of electricity.
Well, that's exactly what modern ignition systems do.
A modern system does not use a "coil", it uses a pulse transformer
just like the ones used in radar transmitters. The control unit
sends a pulse of several hundred volts, about 10-100 microseconds long,
to the pulse transformer hooked to the plug. About 1.5 microseconds
after the pulse arrives the voltage at the plug goes from 0 to about
50,000 to 100,000 volts.
Modern racing ignitions send a much higher voltage to the pulse
transformer creating an arc at the plug in less than 1 microsecond
that has an enormous amount of power (watts). The spark at the plug
looks like a TIG welder on low current.

I don't plan to use them in my F-250,
Bryan




drmayf wrote:
> Have any of you looked at these doohickeys? I wonder..   
> http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html 
> <http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html>
>
> Also, my latest Harbor Freight has leakdown testers at $29.99. 
> Undoubtedly not legacy tools but probably good enough to toss onti the 
> race trailer for salt use.
> "US General item number 94190-3AXH" catalog 161-c winter 2008.
>
> mayf

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Feb  7 15:30:28 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:30:28 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...
In-Reply-To: <47AB8026.8080400@wildblue.net>
References: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com>
  <47AB8026.8080400@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <FAD336F79DF2408E912943CAFA5C64E3@DaveSatellite>

I think most passenger car systems are still inductive just replacing a 
transistor in place of the points. The system will not generate a voltage 
that is higher than the resistance at the plug gap. If you put an ignition 
scope on an engine and play with plug gaps and watch the voltage levels 
change. I am not so sure the billionth of a second spark is a good idea 
because if you miss the chance to get the mixture lit your chance for that 
cycle has passed. Conversely if you have a long burn time at the plug you 
stand a better chance to catch the mixture an lite it. This is how a magneto 
works.. and why they need a small plug gap to start up. I am sure there are 
a few cd units on cars but not convicted it is mainstream. With the advent 
of coil near plug and coil on plug the need for the fast rise times of cd 
systems is mitigated for the most part.
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...


>I looked at the web site. The plug may help on my '71 F-250
> but it won't have any effect on my '79 Ford Ranger.
> Why?
> The wiring diagram that they display, is of a breaker point ignition.
>
> Modern ignition system work much differently.
> They talk about their thing generating a pulse of electricity.
> Well, that's exactly what modern ignition systems do.
> A modern system does not use a "coil", it uses a pulse transformer
> just like the ones used in radar transmitters. The control unit
> sends a pulse of several hundred volts, about 10-100 microseconds long,
> to the pulse transformer hooked to the plug. About 1.5 microseconds
> after the pulse arrives the voltage at the plug goes from 0 to about
> 50,000 to 100,000 volts.
> Modern racing ignitions send a much higher voltage to the pulse
> transformer creating an arc at the plug in less than 1 microsecond
> that has an enormous amount of power (watts). The spark at the plug
> looks like a TIG welder on low current.
>
> I don't plan to use them in my F-250,
> Bryan

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Feb  7 16:29:14 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:29:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...
In-Reply-To: <47AB8026.8080400@wildblue.net>
References: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com>
  <47AB8026.8080400@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <007601c869e1$4024f0e0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Mayf;

I think it's a case of someone reinventing the internal gap spark plug.
Spark plugs seem to be an area where miracle "breakthroughs" are claimed
with monotonous regularity. And while I'm at it:

1. A cow magnet taped to a gas line doesn't do anything.

2. A little spinning propeller mounted underneath a carburetor doesn't
provide supercharging.

3. There is no secret 200mpg carburetor that "big oil" has kept off the
market.

:)

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bryan Savage
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:03 PM
To: LSR
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...

I looked at the web site. The plug may help on my '71 F-250
but it won't have any effect on my '79 Ford Ranger.
Why?
The wiring diagram that they display, is of a breaker point ignition.
 
Modern ignition system work much differently.
They talk about their thing generating a pulse of electricity.
Well, that's exactly what modern ignition systems do.
A modern system does not use a "coil", it uses a pulse transformer
just like the ones used in radar transmitters. The control unit
sends a pulse of several hundred volts, about 10-100 microseconds long,
to the pulse transformer hooked to the plug. About 1.5 microseconds
after the pulse arrives the voltage at the plug goes from 0 to about
50,000 to 100,000 volts.
Modern racing ignitions send a much higher voltage to the pulse
transformer creating an arc at the plug in less than 1 microsecond
that has an enormous amount of power (watts). The spark at the plug
looks like a TIG welder on low current.

I don't plan to use them in my F-250,
Bryan




drmayf wrote:
> Have any of you looked at these doohickeys? I wonder..   
> http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html 
> <http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html>
>
> Also, my latest Harbor Freight has leakdown testers at $29.99. 
> Undoubtedly not legacy tools but probably good enough to toss onti the 
> race trailer for salt use.
> "US General item number 94190-3AXH" catalog 161-c winter 2008.
>
> mayf

From David.Parks at lfr.com  Thu Feb  7 17:32:55 2008
From: David.Parks at lfr.com (Parks, David)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:32:55 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Plenum volume discussion
In-Reply-To: <20080207202542.1C3E418766B@autox.team.net>
References: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com>
	<20080207202542.1C3E418766B@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <52FC50879C1E2C43B5B0D7109FC9D0080720B8@ex-southwest.Ops.LFR.AD>

Air/fuel in the plenum can get exciting if you have a backfire.

This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the
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from disclosure under applicable law.
If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use,
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From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Feb  7 17:46:42 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:46:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Plenum volume discussion
In-Reply-To: <52FC50879C1E2C43B5B0D7109FC9D0080720B8@ex-southwest.Ops.LFR.AD>
References: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com><20080207202542.1C3E418766B@autox.team.net>
	<52FC50879C1E2C43B5B0D7109FC9D0080720B8@ex-southwest.Ops.LFR.AD>
Message-ID: <009001c869ec$12c5f260$0200a8c0@DBTech>

David;

Amen to that!

Early Porsche 911s are notorious for backfiring into their intake plenum
when started cold. The plenum is made of PLASTIC and it explodes, making an
expen$ive "bang". Popoff valves were added to later versions.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Parks, David
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 5:33 PM
To: Greg Meyers; LSR
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Plenum volume discussion

Air/fuel in the plenum can get exciting if you have a backfire.

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Feb  7 20:31:44 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 03:31:44 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Plenum volume discussion
Message-ID: <W413199831170271202441504@webmail22>

If you want real excitement, add a hit of NOS...........Newer F-body and Vette LS engines (and others) have compositeintakes...... You can buy a burst panel real cheap....goodinsurance. 

Ed Van Scoy
#128 B/GT Corvette
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder





>-----Original Message-----
>From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com]
>Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2008 05:46 PM
>To: ''Parks, David'', ''Greg Meyers'', ''LSR''
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Plenum volume discussion
>
>David;
>
>Amen to that!
>
>Early Porsche 911s are notorious for backfiring into their intake plenum
>when started cold. The plenum is made of PLASTIC and it explodes, making an
>expen$ive "bang". Popoff valves were added to later versions.
>
>Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
>Parks, David
>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 5:33 PM
>To: Greg Meyers; LSR
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Plenum volume discussion
>
>Air/fuel in the plenum can get exciting if you have a backfire.

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Feb  7 20:49:43 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:49:43 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed]  Plenum volume discussion
In-Reply-To: <W413199831170271202441504@webmail22>
References: <W413199831170271202441504@webmail22>
Message-ID: <47ABD157.1050908@charter.net>

Years ago we were doing some R & D with intakes on the dyno. We made 
them out of fiberglass to check out some ideas and a quick way to change 
things. We drilled a 1 inch hole and put in a rubber plug in a couple of 
places in the manifold. After you clean up the pieces from one that has 
had a back fire you like the idea of only having to find 2 rubber 
plugs.     Doug Odom in big ditch

Ed Van Scoy wrote:

>If you want real excitement, add a hit of NOS...........Newer F-body and Vette LS engines (and others) have compositeintakes...... You can buy a burst panel real cheap....goodinsurance. 
>
>Ed Van Scoy
>#128 B/GT Corvette
>SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2008 05:46 PM
>>To: ''Parks, David'', ''Greg Meyers'', ''LSR''
>>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Plenum volume discussion
>>
>>David;
>>
>>Amen to that!
>>
>>Early Porsche 911s are notorious for backfiring into their intake plenum
>>when started cold. The plenum is made of PLASTIC and it explodes, making an
>>expen$ive "bang". Popoff valves were added to later versions.
>>
>>Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ

From advo at comcast.net  Fri Feb  8 07:34:39 2008
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:34:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] plenum volume discussion
Message-ID: <20080208143618.DC4CA18765B@autox.team.net>

"You can buy a burst panel real cheap....good insurance."

 

Thanks for responding guys,  We have thought about the burst panel, and have
incorporated it on in our 2006 car which was a draw-thru flathead 6..
http://salt2salt.com/06_07_Update/Graphics/DSC01916.JPG

In calculating the plenum size, does one include the volume of the runners
down to the valves and the tube from the blower to the plenum chamber?  What
happens if there is a baffle or screen along the way?

Thanks again

Greg

http://salt2salt.com

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image001.gif]

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Feb  8 10:34:55 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:34:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...
In-Reply-To: <47ABDFEE.40606@mayfco.com>
References: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com> <47AB8026.8080400@wildblue.net>
	<007601c869e1$4024f0e0$0200a8c0@DBTech> <47ABDFEE.40606@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <00de01c86a78$eb620af0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Mayf;

Sorry to burst the balloon but I couldn't help myself. :)

As far as the car is going, it is dead slow (the progress, not the car). 

I've been occupied with a few other things recently-- we just installed a
"water harvesting" system to capture & store rainwater that runs off the
house & workshop roofs. The two tanks hold 1000 gallons apiece so it should
help water our trees and plants in the summer.

Another thing that I've needed to do for some time is to go through a lot of
boxes and inventory what is in them. Now I have labels on the outside of the
boxes so I know what is in them. I've found stuff that I'd forgotten about
and some other stuff that was pure junk-- I wonder why I saved it.

Another project was to finally buy an air compressor. I bought a vertical
two- cylinder 60 gal Campbell- Hausfeld at Home Depot for $399 which seemed
to be a good deal-- cast iron cylinders, oil lubricated, 220V, etc. I have
it plumbed up in my workshop now so I can use all those surplus aircraft &
Harbor Freight air tools that I've accumulated over the past few years.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:52 PM
To: neil at dbelltech.com
Cc: 'Bryan Savage'; 'LSR'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...

Oh, man... you have crushed me and my beliefs and dreams........ is 
there any need for me to continue in this life...well Hell yeah!    Of 
course, you taped the cow magnet to the fuel line with the correct pole 
against the line and  the other one at right angle to the line (ie 
perpendicular to the line)?  I am dismayed that the beanie propeller 
under the carb doesn't help.   But I am EFI anyway, lol  So what about 
those "vortec" generator doohickeys they place under throttle bodies?  
They seem to work or do they? I have no data.  On the 200 mpg carb, no, 
I am sure you are wrong. Wrong I say, and say again, YOU are wrong 
(hysterically)....

how is your car building coming along?

Mayf


neil at dbelltech.com wrote:

>Mayf;
>
>I think it's a case of someone reinventing the internal gap spark plug.
>Spark plugs seem to be an area where miracle "breakthroughs" are claimed
>with monotonous regularity. And while I'm at it:
>
>1. A cow magnet taped to a gas line doesn't do anything.
>
>2. A little spinning propeller mounted underneath a carburetor doesn't
>provide supercharging.
>
>3. There is no secret 200mpg carburetor that "big oil" has kept off the
>market.
>
>:)
>
>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
>
>
>
>drmayf wrote:
>  
>
>>Have any of you looked at these doohickeys? I wonder..   
>>http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html 
>><http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html>
>>
>>Also, my latest Harbor Freight has leakdown testers at $29.99. 
>>Undoubtedly not legacy tools but probably good enough to toss onti the 
>>race trailer for salt use.
>>"US General item number 94190-3AXH" catalog 161-c winter 2008.
>>
>>mayf

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Fri Feb  8 12:10:38 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:10:38 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Odd car related stuff...
In-Reply-To: <FAD336F79DF2408E912943CAFA5C64E3@DaveSatellite>
References: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com> <47AB8026.8080400@wildblue.net>
	<FAD336F79DF2408E912943CAFA5C64E3@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <47ACA92E.3050701@wildblue.net>

Dave is correct, of course. I don't know what to call the ignition
management system on the new MB V-12.
Maybe a modified for the road, laboratory fuel-air igniter.
Thanks Dave


Neil came up with the name of the type plug that accomplishes the same
thing as the gee whiz one. I thing they came out in the '60's.
Thanks Niel.

I am now entering the quiet zone!
Bryan


Dave Dahlgren wrote:
> I think most passenger car systems are still inductive just replacing 
> a transistor in place of the points. The system will not generate a 
> voltage that is higher than the resistance at the plug gap. If you put 
> an ignition scope on an engine and play with plug gaps and watch the 
> voltage levels change. I am not so sure the billionth of a second 
> spark is a good idea because if you miss the chance to get the mixture 
> lit your chance for that cycle has passed. Conversely if you have a 
> long burn time at the plug you stand a better chance to catch the 
> mixture an lite it. This is how a magneto works.. and why they need a 
> small plug gap to start up. I am sure there are a few cd units on cars 
> but not convicted it is mainstream. With the advent of coil near plug 
> and coil on plug the need for the fast rise times of cd systems is 
> mitigated for the most part.
> Dave

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Fri Feb  8 12:53:46 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:53:46 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Plenum volume discussion
In-Reply-To: <009001c869ec$12c5f260$0200a8c0@DBTech>
References: <47AB33DE.1070203@mayfco.com><20080207202542.1C3E418766B@autox.team.net>
	<52FC50879C1E2C43B5B0D7109FC9D0080720B8@ex-southwest.Ops.LFR.AD>
	<009001c869ec$12c5f260$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <47ACB34A.2000907@wildblue.net>

Back around '92, '93, Ak Miler was testing a multi fuel engine
in a F-150(lot's of room for fuel tanks) that hr set up to run
on gas, propane and methane.
Methane was a problem. The intake on the 4.6 motor was "plastic"
and methane  would backfire and break it. He got an aluminum one
from Ford which allowed him to work on the problem. Replacing
the "waste spark" ignition with an 8 coil setup, stopped the backfire
problem.
He thought the problem was caused by methane's wide range of air-fuel
combustibility. He wanted ford to pay for new cams and a turbo.

Bryan


neil at dbelltech.com wrote:
> David;
>
> Amen to that!
>
> Early Porsche 911s are notorious for backfiring into their intake plenum
> when started cold. The plenum is made of PLASTIC and it explodes, making an
> expen$ive "bang". Popoff valves were added to later versions.
>
> Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Feb  9 00:15:53 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 00:15:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Buying a new car?
Message-ID: <09D5F8DA-7B0D-421B-80C3-ADDED4F2FBFB@comcast.net>

A nine part article on buying a new car.  Edmunds sends a guy out
to get a job at two car dealerships and he reports his experiences.
An eye opener about car salesmen an dealership managers.


http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Feb  9 11:44:46 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:44:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] A different drag race
Message-ID: <56C6D400-5252-4AD4-8691-AE0CDD48BE98@comcast.net>

> This is the ultimate Drag Race, but it is between a 1000 HP Bugatti
> Veyron and a Jet Fighter.
>
> The two will start side by side from a standstill,  The car will go 1
> mile, slow down enough to turn around on a full width runway,
> then come back the 1 mile.  The fighter will take off as quickly as
> possible, go straight up 1 mile, turn around and come back down
> to about 100' off the deck to fly parallel to the car to attempt to  
> cross
> the Finish Line first.
> Who will win?
>
> http://www.snotr.com/video/568

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  9 11:48:10 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 10:48:10 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Buying a new car?
References: <09D5F8DA-7B0D-421B-80C3-ADDED4F2FBFB@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001e01c86b4c$51bff400$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

This was great and worth the read time.....JD

>A nine part article on buying a new car.  Edmunds sends a guy out
> to get a job at two car dealerships and he reports his experiences.
> An eye opener about car salesmen an dealership managers.
> 
> 
> http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html
> _______________________________________________

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sat Feb  9 17:44:28 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 17:44:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Buying a new car?
In-Reply-To: <09D5F8DA-7B0D-421B-80C3-ADDED4F2FBFB@comcast.net>
References: <09D5F8DA-7B0D-421B-80C3-ADDED4F2FBFB@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00a401c86b7e$17bcf550$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Thanks, Wes.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Wester Potter
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 12:16 AM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Buying a new car?

A nine part article on buying a new car.  Edmunds sends a guy out
to get a job at two car dealerships and he reports his experiences.
An eye opener about car salesmen an dealership managers.


http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  9 20:26:41 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 19:26:41 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <000801c86b94$c160fd70$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

88....................... Go Jr.

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Feb  9 20:55:49 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 03:55:49 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
In-Reply-To: <000801c86b94$c160fd70$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <000801c86b94$c160fd70$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W3502F1F5AFA47942C42ADFD9290@phx.gbl>

     JD,

      NASCAR       is for those unfortunates    ... who don't understand that
it is as the world wrestling federation is,

    - a charade of maka'believe


     RACING,  it is NOT


     c heers,  'Dirt  Track  Doug'
    -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
    -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
    -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
    -105 miles south of   'the Syracuse Mile' ...
    -262 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
    -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
             but never more than a few feet from a cold one

  Speedway Bikes, Harley- D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
      Dog Training, Murdersickle parts, Emergency Airship repair, hot air
          and Aerial Surveillance, Corrupt Politicians exposed,  Sprint Cars,

                         -and 'Slide Jobs' appreciated for the FINE ART  that
they are
          -------------------------- oooo ---------------------------
    Wise words from the ancients  especially in light of today's  ' troubles'
:




           VULGAS VULT DECEPI   - Phaedrus

                      ( the (common) people wish to be deceived )








> From: gmc6power at earthlink.net
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 19:26:41 -0800
> Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
>
> 88....................... Go Jr.

_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sun Feb 10 10:32:03 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:32:03 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <021020081732.15756.47AF351300076B6300003D8C2216525806C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Everybody just loves to level the playing field! Jack

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Doug Anderson <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com> 

> JD, 
> 
> NASCAR is for those unfortunates ... who don't understand that 
> it is as the world wrestling federation is, 
> 
> - a charade of maka'believe 
> 
> 
> RACING, it is NOT 
> 
> 
> c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug' 
> -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway, 
> -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway, 
> -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway 
> -105 miles south of 'the Syracuse Mile' ... 
> -262 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway 
> -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats 
> but never more than a few feet from a cold one 
> 
> Speedway Bikes, Harley- D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy, 
> Dog Training, Murdersickle parts, Emergency Airship repair, hot air 
> and Aerial Surveillance, Corrupt Politicians exposed, Sprint Cars, 
> 
> -and 'Slide Jobs' appreciated for the FINE ART that 
> they are 
> -------------------------- oooo --------------------------- 
> Wise words from the ancients especially in light of today's ' troubles' 
> : 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VULGAS VULT DECEPI - Phaedrus 
> 
> ( the (common) people wish to be deceived ) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: gmc6power at earthlink.net 
> > To: land-speed at autox.team.net 
> > Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 19:26:41 -0800 
> > Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR 
> > 
> > 88....................... Go Jr. 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________ 
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. 
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 10 11:16:21 2008
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:16:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
In-Reply-To: <BAY135-W3502F1F5AFA47942C42ADFD9290@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <148431.27515.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Decry NASCAR all you want. It is still the number two sport, live and televised, in the nation.
   
  Last night's race seemed OK to me. The photo in the LA Times sports section this morning will give JD and stuff to talk about while waiting for you guys to show up at impound.
   
  The race was a welcome relief from a long weekend of movies on the Life and Oxygen channels. This is normal tv fare in our house when the wife is down with the cold she blames on me.
   
  DW

Doug Anderson <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com> wrote:
  JD,

NASCAR is for those unfortunates ... who don't understand that
it is as the world wrestling federation is,

- a charade of maka'believe


RACING, it is NOT


c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug'
-22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
-21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
-63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
-105 miles south of 'the Syracuse Mile' ...
-262 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
-2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
but never more than a few feet from a cold one

Speedway Bikes, Harley- D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
Dog Training, Murdersickle parts, Emergency Airship repair, hot air
and Aerial Surveillance, Corrupt Politicians exposed, Sprint Cars,

-and 'Slide Jobs' appreciated for the FINE ART that
they are
-------------------------- oooo ---------------------------
Wise words from the ancients especially in light of today's ' troubles'
:




VULGAS VULT DECEPI - Phaedrus

( the (common) people wish to be deceived )








> From: gmc6power at earthlink.net
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 19:26:41 -0800
> Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
>
> 88....................... Go Jr.

_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed


       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

From karhu at california.com  Sun Feb 10 11:35:51 2008
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:35:51 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
References: <148431.27515.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c86c13$c37e9390$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>

If'n y'all wanna innerestin' read 'bout the origins of NASCAR, check out 
"Driving With the Devil" by Neal Thompson.

Wassat ya say?  I already plugged that there book before?  TWICE?  Goldurn 
brain fade....
Benn

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Feb 10 11:41:06 2008
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:41:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
References: <148431.27515.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001401c86c14$7efb8e20$6401a8c0@ZTxp>

Bwahahahaha - I watch NASCAR when "Terms of Endearment" isn't  on . . . .

makes me knit  faster!

http://images31.fotki.com/v1084/photos/4/43175/1803460/1082003-vi.jpg?1202191903

David, ordering parts and dreaming .  ..\ .



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
To: "Doug Anderson" <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>; "J.D. Tone" 
<gmc6power at earthlink.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR


> Decry NASCAR all you want. It is still the number two sport, live and 
> televised, in the nation.
>
>  Last night's race seemed OK to me. The photo in the LA Times sports 
> section this morning will give JD and stuff to talk about while waiting 
> for you guys to show up at impound.
>
>  The race was a welcome relief from a long weekend of movies on the Life 
> and Oxygen channels. This is normal tv fare in our house when the wife is 
> down with the cold she blames on me.
>
>  DW
>
> Doug Anderson <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>  JD,
>
> NASCAR is for those unfortunates ... who don't understand that
> it is as the world wrestling federation is,
>
> - a charade of maka'believe
>
>
> RACING, it is NOT
>
>
> c heers, 'Dirt Track Doug'
> -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
> -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
> -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
> -105 miles south of 'the Syracuse Mile' ...
> -262 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
> -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
> but never more than a few feet from a cold one
>
> Speedway Bikes, Harley- D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
> Dog Training, Murdersickle parts, Emergency Airship repair, hot air
> and Aerial Surveillance, Corrupt Politicians exposed, Sprint Cars,
>
> -and 'Slide Jobs' appreciated for the FINE ART that
> they are
> -------------------------- oooo ---------------------------
> Wise words from the ancients especially in light of today's ' troubles'
> :
>
>
>
>
> VULGAS VULT DECEPI - Phaedrus
>
> ( the (common) people wish to be deceived )
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: gmc6power at earthlink.net
>> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 19:26:41 -0800
>> Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
>>
>> 88....................... Go Jr.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! 
> Search.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sun Feb 10 12:19:24 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:19:24 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd:  NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <bd9.29f6a9b0.34e0a83c@aol.com>

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Return-path: <BWANA343 at aol.com>
From: BWANA343 at aol.com
Full-name: BWANA343
Message-ID: <ca0.255e75da.34e0a812 at aol.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:18:42 EST
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5043
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

Between the NHRA qualifying at Pomona and the short race at Daytona it  
filled in a cold winter evening nicely. Beats the hell out of those idiot  auction 
reruns from Phoenix.
Any good LSR rumors? Like is Banks building that Diesel streamliner? Are  
there rooms available for SW? 
Bob, windy, 40 degrees in snowless winter NY, W



**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 10 12:27:47 2008
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:27:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd:  NASCAR non-LSR
In-Reply-To: <bd9.29f6a9b0.34e0a83c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <752734.86346.qm@web52505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Bob,
   
  Try www.landracing.com, LSR Forums. All your wishes will come true there.
   
  DW
  

BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:
  **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. 
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Return-path: 
From: BWANA343 at aol.com
Full-name: BWANA343
Message-ID: 
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:18:42 EST
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5043
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

Between the NHRA qualifying at Pomona and the short race at Daytona it 
filled in a cold winter evening nicely. Beats the hell out of those idiot auction 
reruns from Phoenix.
Any good LSR rumors? Like is Banks building that Diesel streamliner? Are 
there rooms available for SW? 
Bob, windy, 40 degrees in snowless winter NY, W



**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. 
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
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From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sun Feb 10 12:40:22 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:40:22 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd:  NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <c72.270c11a2.34e0ad26@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/10/2008 2:28:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
dwarner230 at yahoo.com writes:

Bob,

Try www.landracing.com, LSR Forums. All  your wishes will come true there.

DW



Dan,
I know that, just looking to get a thread going here. All the news outside  
The Amo Chronicles is auto shows and similar bore dumb. 
Never did see anybody contribute anything to that question about Salt  
accumulation affecting drag/aero,either. Anybody ? 
Bob ,still here,W



**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Feb 10 14:47:56 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:47:56 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] A Rules Changes Question
Message-ID: <47AF710C.8040409@mayfco.com>

I had previously looked throught he changes to the rules and today 
downloaded the final changes. One particular one seems to me to need 
some additional discusson. It is a good rule abut the words need some 
additional comments. That is the one regarding the driver's helmet 
support. Here is the part that is odd to me:

" Lateral movement: The/* structure*/ shall provide restriction to 
lateral head movement of less than 2" per side by January 1, 2008. See 
Section 3.B.1"

I am not tring to be picky here but the use of the word /*structure*/ 
means, at least to me, the roll cage itself. Not the padding. 
/*Structure is load carrying*/ while the padding carries no loads. 
Padding only limits the applied force. So if /*structure*/ is the 
correct word then less than 2 inches from the roll cage and add SFI 
padding to that and we are restricted to maybe an inch or less side 
movement. Is that good? Seems like we need to be able to move our heads 
around some.

Who should I contact to get a reading on this?

Next, and this one is picky, lol... The same rule says this must be 
implemented by January 1, 2008.  Don't we really mean the rule is in 
effect on January 1, 2008? I suspect that cars will be being modified to 
meet lateral movement rule right up until first meet time and certainly 
not by January 1, 2008.

And finally, if we are bing so specific as to the wording on the 
limiting of head movement, what is going to be used to measure it? Are 
all drivers including alternate drivers going to be required at the 
first attending meet to get in the car and some sort of gage used to 
measure on both sides at once?  Will 2.1 inches be allowed? How about 
2.05"? The question is how will this actually be measured and when? And 
what about an alternate driver who may be smaller in stature and the 
helmet is smaller? The /*structure*/ part of the rule is violated here 
if it may made to meet the minimum of a larger helmet.

Seems to me that the quoted rule should have said padding may be used to 
limit the lateral head movement to less that 2 inches of free travel. 
And padding is any roll bar padding but if just the normal roll cage 
stuff must be used in conjunction with the sfi stuff.


As I mentioned, this is a good rule but it is goping to be hard to apply 
and keep track of and inspect.

Can we get some solid discussion from any of the rules folk in this? 
Stuff that will be binding?

mayf.

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 10 21:36:20 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:36:20 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
References: <148431.27515.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c86c67$a6a1ec00$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Life is Grand, life is good, my TV has 500 channels. The wonderful thing about
America is you don't have to watch it if you don't want too. Same thing about
the radio. You have your choice to listen to Rush Limbaugh or you don't :<)

Just remember, LSR is a motorsport that's NOT racing. It should be LSTT. They
are "time trials" It never has have been racing!

I repeat GO 88


  Decry NASCAR all you want. It is still the number two sport, live and
televised, in the nation.

  Last night's race seemed OK to me. The photo in the LA Times sports section
this morning will give JD and stuff to talk about while waiting for you guys
to show up at impound.

  The race was a welcome relief from a long weekend of movies on the Life and
Oxygen channels. This is normal tv fare in our house when the wife is down
with the cold she blames on me.


  NASCAR is for those unfortunates ... who don't understand that
  it is as the world wrestling federation is,

  - a charade of maka'believe


  RACING, it is NOT


  > 88....................... Go Jr.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Feb 10 22:38:12 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:38:12 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
In-Reply-To: <002a01c86c67$a6a1ec00$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <148431.27515.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<002a01c86c67$a6a1ec00$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <47AFDF44.5040702@mayfco.com>

JD, we hardly ever agree on anything, but on this you are correct, lol. 
LSR is high speed time trials... But, I guess if you get two competitors 
in the same class, they are going against each other although from what 
I have seen , most of the competitors will help you go faster than 
themselves.. kinda screwy for racing... time trials is better...

mayf
J.D. Tone wrote:

>Life is Grand, life is good, my TV has 500 channels. The wonderful thing about
>America is you don't have to watch it if you don't want too. Same thing about
>the radio. You have your choice to listen to Rush Limbaugh or you don't :<)
>
>Just remember, LSR is a motorsport that's NOT racing. It should be LSTT. They
>are "time trials" It never has have been racing!
>
>I repeat GO 88
>
>
>  Decry NASCAR all you want. It is still the number two sport, live and
>televised, in the nation.
>
>  Last night's race seemed OK to me. The photo in the LA Times sports section
>this morning will give JD and stuff to talk about while waiting for you guys
>to show up at impound.
>
>  The race was a welcome relief from a long weekend of movies on the Life and
>Oxygen channels. This is normal tv fare in our house when the wife is down
>with the cold she blames on me.
>
>
>  NASCAR is for those unfortunates ... who don't understand that
>  it is as the world wrestling federation is,
>
>  - a charade of maka'believe
>
>
>  RACING, it is NOT
>
>
>  > 88....................... Go Jr.
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Feb 11 09:40:42 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:40:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Test/question 1
In-Reply-To: <003c01c869c4$2b6d0290$824707b0$@com>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D169EF@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Thanks for taking the time send this information.

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: John Staiger [mailto:lsrvette at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:01 PM
To: Adin, David
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Test/question 1

Adin,

I recently pulled the Jarrico toploader transmission out of the Berkeley
and
sent it for overhaul.  It has been installed and run at Bonneville for
more
than 10 years.  The only issue I found was a layer of crap in the bottom
(should have change the oil more frequently)and a white band of water
that
was most likely condensate (same issue as before). All gears, dogs, etc
where in perfect condition with no pitting, cracking or even signs of
wear.
This car has been 260+ with no issues.

Many Nascar transmissions are based on the Toploader and spin some
pretty
good speeds for a lot longer than we ever run.  Most break for strength
reasons. There are several shops that will update a stock ford unit for
you
should you feel it is necessary or you can buy a "racing toploader" aka
Jarrico, etc. with all the modification already done.  These shops also
have
allot of empirical data on how much torque/hp/RPM a unit will take. I
think
it is a good transmission and should work well for you.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of
Adin, David
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:44 PM
To: Rich Fox
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Test/question 1

Thanks for the quick update Rich.

The issue was couched as a sustained high rpm run - I might think that
this could happen at any power level.  I understand many items (lube,
condition, etc) could contribute.

Now that I think about this . . . all the races the Cobras ran (Lemans
etc) . . . I'd just never heard this before.

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Rich Fox
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:20 AM
To: Adin, David
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Test/question 1

Mine has been working OK. But maybe faster cars have trouble.  RF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Test/question 1


> Someone recently told me the following:  Toploader trannys don't do
well
> at Bonneville because of the sustation high rpm causing lack of lube
to
> the needle bearings.
>
> Old wive's tale?  Common knowledge?
>
> Any info apprectiated.
>
> David in Durango
Land-speed mailing list

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From NT788 at comcast.net  Mon Feb 11 10:37:13 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:37:13 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <021120081737.26757.47B087C900046A81000068852216538496C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

I call what I do Speed trials Jack

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> 

> JD, we hardly ever agree on anything, but on this you are correct, lol. 
> LSR is high speed time trials... But, I guess if you get two competitors 
> in the same class, they are going against each other although from what 
> I have seen , most of the competitors will help you go faster than 
> themselves.. kinda screwy for racing... time trials is better... 
> 
> mayf 
> J.D. Tone wrote: 
> 
> >Life is Grand, life is good, my TV has 500 channels. The wonderful thing about 
> >America is you don't have to watch it if you don't want too. Same thing about 
> >the radio. You have your choice to listen to Rush Limbaugh or you don't :<) 
> > 
> >Just remember, LSR is a motorsport that's NOT racing. It should be LSTT. They 
> >are "time trials" It never has have been racing! 
> > 
> >I repeat GO 88 
> > 
> > 
> > Decry NASCAR all you want. It is still the number two sport, live and 
> >televised, in the nation. 
> > 
> > Last night's race seemed OK to me. The photo in the LA Times sports section 
> >this morning will give JD and stuff to talk about while waiting for you guys 
> >to show up at impound. 
> > 
> > The race was a welcome relief from a long weekend of movies on the Life and 
> >Oxygen channels. This is normal tv fare in our house when the wife is down 
> >with the cold she blames on me. 
> > 
> > 
> > NASCAR is for those unfortunates ... who don't understand that 
> > it is as the world wrestling federation is, 
> > 
> > - a charade of maka'believe 
> > 
> > 
> > RACING, it is NOT 
> > 
> > 
> > > 88....................... Go Jr. 
> >_______________________________________________ 
> >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> > 
> >Land-speed mailing list 
> > 
> >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com 
> > 
> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Mon Feb 11 10:45:21 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:45:21 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] A Rules Changes Question
In-Reply-To: <47AF710C.8040409@mayfco.com>
References: <47AF710C.8040409@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <47B089B1.9020408@wildblue.net>

Mayf

I think that is an excellent evaluation of the rule. Were I
responsible for that rule, I would eagerly solicit your input.
That rule, as currently written, says you must restrict lateral
head movement in a way that will be antiquate to us.

That does not give me a warm feeling.

Bryan


drmayf wrote:
> I had previously looked throught he changes to the rules and today 
> downloaded the final changes. One particular one seems to me to need 
> some additional discusson. It is a good rule abut the words need some 
> additional comments. That is the one regarding the driver's helmet 
> support. Here is the part that is odd to me:
>
> " Lateral movement: The/* structure*/ shall provide restriction to 
> lateral head movement of less than 2" per side by January 1, 2008. See 
> Section 3.B.1"
>
> I am not tring to be picky here but the use of the word /*structure*/ 
> means, at least to me, the roll cage itself. Not the padding. 
> /*Structure is load carrying*/ while the padding carries no loads. 
> Padding only limits the applied force. So if /*structure*/ is the 
> correct word then less than 2 inches from the roll cage and add SFI 
> padding to that and we are restricted to maybe an inch or less side 
> movement. Is that good? Seems like we need to be able to move our heads 
> around some.
>
> Who should I contact to get a reading on this?
>
> Next, and this one is picky, lol... The same rule says this must be 
> implemented by January 1, 2008.  Don't we really mean the rule is in 
> effect on January 1, 2008? I suspect that cars will be being modified to 
> meet lateral movement rule right up until first meet time and certainly 
> not by January 1, 2008.
>
> And finally, if we are bing so specific as to the wording on the 
> limiting of head movement, what is going to be used to measure it? Are 
> all drivers including alternate drivers going to be required at the 
> first attending meet to get in the car and some sort of gage used to 
> measure on both sides at once?  Will 2.1 inches be allowed? How about 
> 2.05"? The question is how will this actually be measured and when? And 
> what about an alternate driver who may be smaller in stature and the 
> helmet is smaller? The /*structure*/ part of the rule is violated here 
> if it may made to meet the minimum of a larger helmet.
>
> Seems to me that the quoted rule should have said padding may be used to 
> limit the lateral head movement to less that 2 inches of free travel. 
> And padding is any roll bar padding but if just the normal roll cage 
> stuff must be used in conjunction with the sfi stuff.
>
>
> As I mentioned, this is a good rule but it is goping to be hard to apply 
> and keep track of and inspect.
>
> Can we get some solid discussion from any of the rules folk in this? 
> Stuff that will be binding?
>
> mayf.

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Mon Feb 11 11:03:17 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:03:17 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
References: <148431.27515.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<002a01c86c67$a6a1ec00$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <001001c86cd8$62668200$6501a8c0@Rick>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
>
> Just remember, LSR is a motorsport that's NOT racing. It should be LSTT. 
> They
> are "time trials" It never has have been racing!

JD you are so right.  At PRI in Dec I had a discussion with Chris Economacki 
about LSR and he kept insisting that its not racing, to a point that I was a 
little pissed, but after thinking about his statement  "until you line up 
two cars at the same time it's not racing", I have come to agree.  What we 
do is Time Trials.


Rick 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Feb 11 11:16:35 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:16:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
References: <148431.27515.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002a01c86c67$a6a1ec00$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<001001c86cd8$62668200$6501a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <00b601c86cda$3d6e2c80$6501a8c0@Glens>

I have a plaque on my wall that says.

                                                             "Bonneville 
Nationals Speed Week"
                                                                 "Worlds 
fastest speed Trials"

Just like the decals

Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "dan warner" 
<dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; "Doug Anderson" <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>; 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR


> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
>>
>> Just remember, LSR is a motorsport that's NOT racing. It should be LSTT.
>> They
>> are "time trials" It never has have been racing!
>
> JD you are so right.  At PRI in Dec I had a discussion with Chris 
> Economacki
> about LSR and he kept insisting that its not racing, to a point that I was 
> a
> little pissed, but after thinking about his statement  "until you line up
> two cars at the same time it's not racing", I have come to agree.  What we
> do is Time Trials.
>
>
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Feb 11 13:35:11 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:35:11 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
In-Reply-To: <00b601c86cda$3d6e2c80$6501a8c0@Glens>
References: <148431.27515.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002a01c86c67$a6a1ec00$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<001001c86cd8$62668200$6501a8c0@Rick>
	<00b601c86cda$3d6e2c80$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <47B0B17F.5070006@mayfco.com>

Welol, ok, Glen... but why speed? Speed has to be calculated where as 
time does dot. It is teh independent parameter, speed requires another 
parameter and that is distance. I know, I know, picky picky and having 
fun...

mayf
Glen Barrett wrote:

>I have a plaque on my wall that says.
>
>                                                             "Bonneville 
>Nationals Speed Week"
>                                                                 "Worlds 
>fastest speed Trials"
>
>Just like the decals
>
>Glen
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
>To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "dan warner" 
><dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; "Doug Anderson" <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>; 
><land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:03 AM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
>
>
>  
>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
>>    
>>
>>>Just remember, LSR is a motorsport that's NOT racing. It should be LSTT.
>>>They
>>>are "time trials" It never has have been racing!
>>>      
>>>
>>JD you are so right.  At PRI in Dec I had a discussion with Chris 
>>Economacki
>>about LSR and he kept insisting that its not racing, to a point that I was 
>>a
>>little pissed, but after thinking about his statement  "until you line up
>>two cars at the same time it's not racing", I have come to agree.  What we
>>do is Time Trials.
>>
>>
>>Rick
>>_______________________________________________
>>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ed at vetteracing.com  Mon Feb 11 13:37:14 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:37:14 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <W621338199284431202762234@webmail34>

 You are right. The word "racing" never appears there..... So why does my
insurance company think it's racing???
Ed



-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:16 AM
To: 'Rick Byrnes', 'J.D. Tone', 'dan warner', 'Doug	Anderson',
land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR

I have a plaque on my wall that says. "Bonneville Nationals Speed Week"
"Worlds fastest speed Trials"Just like the decalsGlen----- Original Message
----- From: "Rick Byrnes" To: "J.D. Tone" ; "dan warner" ; "Doug Anderson" ;
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:03 AMSubject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR
non-LSR> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J.D. Tone" >>>> Just remember,
LSR is a motorsport that's NOT racing. It should be LSTT.>> They>> are "time
trials" It never has have been racing!>> JD you are so right. At PRI in Dec I
had a discussion with Chris > Economacki> about LSR and he kept insisting that
its not racing, to a point that I was > a> little pissed, but after thinking
about his statement "until you line up> two cars at the same time it's not
racing", I have come to agree. What we> do is Time Trials.>>> Rick>
_______________________________________________

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Feb 11 13:44:46 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:44:46 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
In-Reply-To: <W621338199284431202762234@webmail34>
References: <W621338199284431202762234@webmail34>
Message-ID: <7411E4D5-0E89-456E-AF71-1326CD5DD82D@nancyandjon.org>

On Feb 11, 2008, at 3:37 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:

  You are right. The word "racing" never appears there..... So why  
does my
insurance company think it's racing???
Ed




Ed, don't get me started on life insurance!  I can't get life  
insurance these days, even if I suggest they add a rider saying that  
I'm not covered if I buy the farm while engaged in LSR.  And worse  
still -- don't I remember hearing that land speed racing with  
motorcycles has a perfect -- ZERO -- fatality count over the last 60  
years or whatever?  What the heck do they want?  How can you get any  
better than perfect?

Okay, back to my cave.

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Feb 11 14:09:05 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:09:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
In-Reply-To: <7411E4D5-0E89-456E-AF71-1326CD5DD82D@nancyandjon.org>
References: <W621338199284431202762234@webmail34>
	<7411E4D5-0E89-456E-AF71-1326CD5DD82D@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <1B8DC3E9-401B-4EBF-A3D0-AF8DEFAC252D@comcast.net>

Jon.

Is that a snow cave you are talking about?

It is racing . . . against the clock!

Just like ski racing is one competitor against the time clock.

  Land speed racing is one vehicle against the clock/computer/elapsed  
time measuring device.

You are racing against a speed/elapsed time benchmark set by another  
competitor and trying to surpass that speed.

It is the "Worlds Fastest Motorsport Event".

Wes



On Feb 11, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Jon Wennerberg wrote:

> On Feb 11, 2008, at 3:37 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:
>
>  You are right. The word "racing" never appears there..... So why
> does my
> insurance company think it's racing???
> Ed
>
>
>
>
> Ed, don't get me started on life insurance!  I can't get life
> insurance these days, even if I suggest they add a rider saying that
> I'm not covered if I buy the farm while engaged in LSR.  And worse
> still -- don't I remember hearing that land speed racing with
> motorcycles has a perfect -- ZERO -- fatality count over the last 60
> years or whatever?  What the heck do they want?  How can you get any
> better than perfect?
>
> Okay, back to my cave.
>
> Jon , tall guy with moustache
> and two 200 MPH Club hats
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Feb 11 15:01:19 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:01:19 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <16659670.1202767279778.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

   Insurance????  You  have  insurance????  When  I'm  dead,   I'm  dead.
   Hopefully  the wife had some on me, otherwise she will need to live on
   what  I've  got left............Now do I have some an her? :<) What do
   you think.

   So why does my
   insurance company think it's racing???
   Ed
   Ed,  don't  get  me  started  on  life  insurance!   I  can't get life
   insurance these days,
   Okay, back to my cave.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Feb 11 15:37:23 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:37:23 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
References: <148431.27515.qm@web52504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002a01c86c67$a6a1ec00$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<001001c86cd8$62668200$6501a8c0@Rick>
	<00b601c86cda$3d6e2c80$6501a8c0@Glens> <47B0B17F.5070006@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <001501c86cfe$ac7c9d40$6501a8c0@Glens>

Mayf
Don't screw with my mind. It the ET to cover the distance, one mile. 
converted to MPH.or 3600 divided by seconds
Gb
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>; "J.D. Tone" 
<gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; "Doug 
Anderson" <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR


> Welol, ok, Glen... but why speed? Speed has to be calculated where as time 
> does dot. It is teh independent parameter, speed requires another 
> parameter and that is distance. I know, I know, picky picky and having 
> fun...
>
> mayf
> Glen Barrett wrote:
>
>>I have a plaque on my wall that says.
>>
>>                                                             "Bonneville 
>> Nationals Speed Week"
>>                                                                 "Worlds 
>> fastest speed Trials"
>>
>>Just like the decals
>>
>>Glen
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
>>To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "dan warner" 
>><dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; "Doug Anderson" <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>; 
>><land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:03 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
>>
>>
>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
>>>
>>>>Just remember, LSR is a motorsport that's NOT racing. It should be LSTT.
>>>>They
>>>>are "time trials" It never has have been racing!
>>>>
>>>JD you are so right.  At PRI in Dec I had a discussion with Chris 
>>>Economacki
>>>about LSR and he kept insisting that its not racing, to a point that I 
>>>was a
>>>little pissed, but after thinking about his statement  "until you line up
>>>two cars at the same time it's not racing", I have come to agree.  What 
>>>we
>>>do is Time Trials.
>>>
>>>
>>>Rick
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>Land-speed mailing list
>>>
>>>You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>>>
>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Feb 11 16:09:59 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:09:59 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <14905617.1202771399678.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

It's obvious that Glen gives out time in speed or MPH. So they are speed trials.

In the far distant past of the SCTA the timing tags had many numbers on them. 

The time, in seconds, was over a 1/4 mile piece of dirt and that time was listed on the tag. It was converted to speed and that too was listed. 

I believe this way was dropped after the war when the 132 feet was begining to be used. Glen can correct me on this because he was also driving early drag car. They used the 132' but I don't know the exact date. I imagine it might have been at the Santa Ana drags on Eddie Martin Field.

JD

>Don't screw with my mind. It the ET to cover the distance, one mile. 
>converted to MPH.or 3600 divided by seconds
>Gb
>
>
>> Welol, ok, Glen... but why speed? Speed has to be calculated where as time >> does dot. It is teh independent parameter, speed requires another 
>> parameter and that is distance. I know, I know, picky picky and having 
>> fun...
>>
>> mayf
 Glen Barrett wrote:

I have a plaque on my wall that says.

  "Bonneville Nationals Speed Week"
  "Worlds fastest speed Trials"

Just like the decals

 I have come to agree.  What 
  we do is Time Trials.

>>>>Rick

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Feb 11 16:42:33 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 16:42:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
References: <14905617.1202771399678.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <009701c86d07$cc7075a0$6501a8c0@Glens>

I can see it now, The Bonneville national elapsed time trials.Some how don't 
sound the same as SPEED.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>; "J.D. Tone" 
<gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; "Doug 
Anderson" <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR


> It's obvious that Glen gives out time in speed or MPH. So they are speed 
> trials.
>
> In the far distant past of the SCTA the timing tags had many numbers on 
> them.
>
> The time, in seconds, was over a 1/4 mile piece of dirt and that time was 
> listed on the tag. It was converted to speed and that too was listed.
>
> I believe this way was dropped after the war when the 132 feet was 
> begining to be used. Glen can correct me on this because he was also 
> driving early drag car. They used the 132' but I don't know the exact 
> date. I imagine it might have been at the Santa Ana drags on Eddie Martin 
> Field.
>
> JD
>
>>Don't screw with my mind. It the ET to cover the distance, one mile.
>>converted to MPH.or 3600 divided by seconds
>>Gb
>>
>>
>>> Welol, ok, Glen... but why speed? Speed has to be calculated where as 
>>> time >> does dot. It is teh independent parameter, speed requires 
>>> another
>>> parameter and that is distance. I know, I know, picky picky and having
>>> fun...
>>>
>>> mayf
> Glen Barrett wrote:
>
> I have a plaque on my wall that says.
>
>  "Bonneville Nationals Speed Week"
>  "Worlds fastest speed Trials"
>
> Just like the decals
>
> I have come to agree.  What
>  we do is Time Trials.
>
>>>>>Rick

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Feb 11 20:12:37 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:12:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
References: <14905617.1202771399678.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <010301c86d25$223ba190$6501a8c0@Glens>

In the beginning the speeds on the drag strips were measured with a 132 foot 
timing trap. This would be 66' on each side of the 1/4 mile finish line that 
is used for elapsed time only. A few years back NHRA took out the last 66 ' 
and measure the speed to the finish line at the 1/4 mile to this day. One 
reason was the faster cars were staying under power past the last 66' feet 
and were having trouble stopping on the shorter courses.So now the ET and 
speed are measured at the end.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>; "J.D. Tone" 
<gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; "Doug 
Anderson" <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR


> It's obvious that Glen gives out time in speed or MPH. So they are speed 
> trials.
>
> In the far distant past of the SCTA the timing tags had many numbers on 
> them.
>
> The time, in seconds, was over a 1/4 mile piece of dirt and that time was 
> listed on the tag. It was converted to speed and that too was listed.
>
> I believe this way was dropped after the war when the 132 feet was 
> begining to be used. Glen can correct me on this because he was also 
> driving early drag car. They used the 132' but I don't know the exact 
> date. I imagine it might have been at the Santa Ana drags on Eddie Martin 
> Field.
>
> JD
>
>>Don't screw with my mind. It the ET to cover the distance, one mile.
>>converted to MPH.or 3600 divided by seconds
>>Gb
>>
>>
>>> Welol, ok, Glen... but why speed? Speed has to be calculated where as 
>>> time >> does dot. It is teh independent parameter, speed requires 
>>> another
>>> parameter and that is distance. I know, I know, picky picky and having
>>> fun...
>>>
>>> mayf
> Glen Barrett wrote:
>
> I have a plaque on my wall that says.
>
>  "Bonneville Nationals Speed Week"
>  "Worlds fastest speed Trials"
>
> Just like the decals
>
> I have come to agree.  What
>  we do is Time Trials.
>
>>>>>Rick

From mactem at mebtel.net  Tue Feb 12 05:10:46 2008
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:10:46 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] New Aussie rod and custom mag. (non lsr)
Message-ID: <001501c86d70$4d1d26e0$0300a8c0@brightstar>

This popped up in my email this morning.  Looks like a tradition hot
rods, but on the wrong side of the road.
http://www.chopped.com.au/email/20080213-email-hosted.html
David

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 12 07:54:37 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:54:37 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] New Aussie rod and custom mag. (non lsr)
Message-ID: <12789931.1202828077464.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Nice shot of Neil Thompsons Studebaker

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Feb 12 08:42:04 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:42:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New Aussie rod and custom mag. (non lsr)
In-Reply-To: <12789931.1202828077464.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A00@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

This article?

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/featuredvehicles/1953_studebaker_cou
pe/index.html



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of James Tone
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:55 AM
To: Mobley-Anderson; LSR
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] New Aussie rod and custom mag. (non lsr)

Nice shot of Neil Thompsons Studebaker
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From NT788 at comcast.net  Tue Feb 12 10:52:26 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:52:26 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <021220081752.9367.47B1DCDA00077EBD000024972215575114C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Speed  because I don't have to get here first or quicker! Nebulous Theorem!

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> 

> In the beginning the speeds on the drag strips were measured with a 132 foot 
> timing trap. This would be 66' on each side of the 1/4 mile finish line that 
> is used for elapsed time only. A few years back NHRA took out the last 66 ' 
> and measure the speed to the finish line at the 1/4 mile to this day. One 
> reason was the faster cars were staying under power past the last 66' feet 
> and were having trouble stopping on the shorter courses.So now the ET and 
> speed are measured at the end. 
> Glen 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Tone" 
> To: "Glen Barrett" ; 
> Cc: "Rick Byrnes" ; "J.D. Tone" 
> ; "dan warner" ; "Doug 
> Anderson" ; 
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 4:09 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR 
> 
> 
> > It's obvious that Glen gives out time in speed or MPH. So they are speed 
> > trials. 
> > 
> > In the far distant past of the SCTA the timing tags had many numbers on 
> > them. 
> > 
> > The time, in seconds, was over a 1/4 mile piece of dirt and that time was 
> > listed on the tag. It was converted to speed and that too was listed. 
> > 
> > I believe this way was dropped after the war when the 132 feet was 
> > begining to be used. Glen can correct me on this because he was also 
> > driving early drag car. They used the 132' but I don't know the exact 
> > date. I imagine it might have been at the Santa Ana drags on Eddie Martin 
> > Field. 
> > 
> > JD 
> > 
> >>Don't screw with my mind. It the ET to cover the distance, one mile. 
> >>converted to MPH.or 3600 divided by seconds 
> >>Gb 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Welol, ok, Glen... but why speed? Speed has to be calculated where as 
> >>> time >> does dot. It is teh independent parameter, speed requires 
> >>> another 
> >>> parameter and that is distance. I know, I know, picky picky and having 
> >>> fun... 
> >>> 
> >>> mayf 
> > Glen Barrett wrote: 
> > 
> > I have a plaque on my wall that says. 
> > 
> > "Bonneville Nationals Speed Week" 
> > "Worlds fastest speed Trials" 
> > 
> > Just like the decals 
> > 
> > I have come to agree. What 
> > we do is Time Trials. 
> > 
> >>>>>Rick 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From NT788 at comcast.net  Tue Feb 12 11:34:29 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:34:29 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <021220081834.19379.47B1E6B50006707B00004BB32215575114C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Ok What if there was a puddle of oil at the start line and I spun my tires for two days? What formula applies?150mph in a quarter impossible! Jack

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> 

> Mayf 
> Don't screw with my mind. It the ET to cover the distance, one mile. 
> converted to MPH.or 3600 divided by seconds 
> Gb 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "drmayf" 
> To: "Glen Barrett" 
> Cc: "Rick Byrnes" ; "J.D. Tone" 
> ; "dan warner" ; "Doug 
> Anderson" ; 
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:35 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR 
> 
> 
> > Welol, ok, Glen... but why speed? Speed has to be calculated where as time 
> > does dot. It is teh independent parameter, speed requires another 
> > parameter and that is distance. I know, I know, picky picky and having 
> > fun... 
> > 
> > mayf 
> > Glen Barrett wrote: 
> > 
> >>I have a plaque on my wall that says. 
> >> 
> >> "Bonneville 
> >> Nationals Speed Week" 
> >> "Worlds 
> >> fastest speed Trials" 
> >> 
> >>Just like the decals 
> >> 
> >>Glen 
> >>----- Original Message ----- 
> >>From: "Rick Byrnes" 
> >>To: "J.D. Tone" ; "dan warner" 
> >>; "Doug Anderson" ; 
> >> 
> >>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:03 AM 
> >>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>From: "J.D. Tone" 
> >>> 
> >>>>Just remember, LSR is a motorsport that's NOT racing. It should be LSTT. 
> >>>>They 
> >>>>are "time trials" It never has have been racing! 
> >>>> 
> >>>JD you are so right. At PRI in Dec I had a discussion with Chris 
> >>>Economacki 
> >>>about LSR and he kept insisting that its not racing, to a point that I 
> >>>was a 
> >>>little pissed, but after thinking about his statement "until you line up 
> >>>two cars at the same time it's not racing", I have come to agree. What 
> >>>we 
> >>>do is Time Trials. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>Rick 
> >>>_______________________________________________ 
> >>>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> >>> 
> >>>Land-speed mailing list 
> >>> 
> >>>You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com 
> >>> 
> >>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
> >>> 
> >>_______________________________________________ 
> >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> >> 
> >>Land-speed mailing list 
> >> 
> >>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com 
> >> 
> >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Tue Feb 12 12:39:58 2008
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:39:58 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Life Insurance>From>J G Magoo
Message-ID: <021220081939.24825.47B1F60D000C2DC7000060F922007614380101090E030906@comcast.net>

RE: Life Insurance:

I have always felt that it is unwise to sleep next to a woman with your throat totally exposed when she knows that you are worth more dead than alive!

JGMagoo

From karlepayne55 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 12 16:44:02 2008
From: karlepayne55 at yahoo.com (Karl Payne)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:44:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Engineers just think different  -  non-LSR
Message-ID: <378598.89086.qm@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

  Two engineering students were crossing the campus when one said, "Where
   did you get such a great bike?"
   The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday
   minding my own business when a beautiful coed rode up on this bike.
   She threw the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes and said,
   "Take what you want." 
  The first engineer was horrified:  "YOU IDIOT!  Why did you take the bike?"
  The bike owner replied smugly:
  "I'm no dummy; I KNEW the clothes wouldn't fit."

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

From NT788 at comcast.net  Tue Feb 12 17:14:44 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:14:44 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <021320080014.13031.47B2367400064DD2000032E72216551406C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Well could be. Exept in racing you have to get there first, or quickest. So its a race to beat someones speed, like getting to the track first? Jack

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net> 

> Jon. 
> 
> Is that a snow cave you are talking about? 
> 
> It is racing . . . against the clock! 
> 
> Just like ski racing is one competitor against the time clock. 
> 
> Land speed racing is one vehicle against the clock/computer/elapsed 
> time measuring device. 
> 
> You are racing against a speed/elapsed time benchmark set by another 
> competitor and trying to surpass that speed. 
> 
> It is the "Worlds Fastest Motorsport Event". 
> 
> Wes 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 11, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Jon Wennerberg wrote: 
> 
> > On Feb 11, 2008, at 3:37 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote: 
> > 
> > You are right. The word "racing" never appears there..... So why 
> > does my 
> > insurance company think it's racing??? 
> > Ed 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Ed, don't get me started on life insurance! I can't get life 
> > insurance these days, even if I suggest they add a rider saying that 
> > I'm not covered if I buy the farm while engaged in LSR. And worse 
> > still -- don't I remember hearing that land speed racing with 
> > motorcycles has a perfect -- ZERO -- fatality count over the last 60 
> > years or whatever? What the heck do they want? How can you get any 
> > better than perfect? 
> > 
> > Okay, back to my cave. 
> > 
> > Jon , tall guy with moustache 
> > and two 200 MPH Club hats 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> > 
> > Land-speed mailing list 
> > 
> > You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net 
> > 
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Feb 12 17:29:06 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:29:06 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
In-Reply-To: <021320080014.13031.47B2367400064DD2000032E72216551406C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
References: <021320080014.13031.47B2367400064DD2000032E72216551406C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47B239D2.80405@mayfco.com>

Jack, I dunno about getting to the track first but it sure helps to get 
a good pit space, lol...

mayf..
NT788 at comcast.net wrote:

>Well could be. Exept in racing you have to get there first, or quickest. So its a race to beat someones speed, like getting to the track first? Jack
>
>-------------- Original message -------------- 
>From: Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net> 
>
>  
>
>>Jon. 
>>
>>Is that a snow cave you are talking about? 
>>
>>It is racing . . . against the clock! 
>>
>>Just like ski racing is one competitor against the time clock. 
>>
>>Land speed racing is one vehicle against the clock/computer/elapsed 
>>time measuring device. 
>>
>>You are racing against a speed/elapsed time benchmark set by another 
>>competitor and trying to surpass that speed. 
>>
>>It is the "Worlds Fastest Motorsport Event". 
>>
>>Wes 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Feb 11, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Jon Wennerberg wrote: 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>On Feb 11, 2008, at 3:37 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote: 
>>>
>>>You are right. The word "racing" never appears there..... So why 
>>>does my 
>>>insurance company think it's racing??? 
>>>Ed 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Ed, don't get me started on life insurance! I can't get life 
>>>insurance these days, even if I suggest they add a rider saying that 
>>>I'm not covered if I buy the farm while engaged in LSR. And worse 
>>>still -- don't I remember hearing that land speed racing with 
>>>motorcycles has a perfect -- ZERO -- fatality count over the last 60 
>>>years or whatever? What the heck do they want? How can you get any 
>>>better than perfect? 
>>>
>>>Okay, back to my cave. 
>>>
>>>Jon , tall guy with moustache 
>>>and two 200 MPH Club hats 
>>>_______________________________________________ 
>>>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
>>>
>>>Land-speed mailing list 
>>>
>>>You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net 
>>>
>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________ 
>>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list 
>>
>>You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 12 17:46:38 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:46:38 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Engineers just think different  -  non-LSR
In-Reply-To: <378598.89086.qm@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <378598.89086.qm@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W21CF7E7F54E9579C16AE11D9240@phx.gbl>

       Yup,

       thats them all right

        I'd know them anywhere.    - LOL

      - a'course  in the looooooong  run,

       ... the bike  -WAS-  prob'ly worth more       - LOL   somemore


   c heers,  'Dirt  Track  Doug'
    -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
    -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
    -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
    -105 miles south of   'the Syracuse Mile' ...
    -262 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
    -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
             but never more than a few feet from a cold one

     -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,
                              Cold Beer, Fast Cars, an' Warm Willin' Wimin'

  Speedway Bikes, Harley- D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
      Dog Training, Murdersickle parts, Emergency Airship repair, hot air
          and Aerial Surveillance, Corrupt Politicians exposed,  Sprint Cars,

                             -and 'Slide Jobs' appreciated for the FINE ART
that they are

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000





> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008    > From: karlepayne55 at yahoo.com



 Subject: [Land-speed]     Engineers just think different  -  non-LSR

 Two engineering students were crossing the campus when one said, "Where did
you get such a great bike?"

The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday minding my
own business when a beautiful coed rode up on this bike.  She threw the bike
to the ground, took off all her clothes and said,  "Take what you want."


 The first engineer was horrified:  "YOU IDIOT!     Why did you take the bike
?"


The bike owner replied smugly:   "I'm no dummy; I KNEW the clothes wouldn't
fit."

_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Feb 12 18:13:07 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:13:07 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <W6515512092257141202865187@webmail28>

I feel your pain ;-)
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wennerberg [mailto:jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 01:44 PM
To: 'Ed Van Scoy'
Cc: 'Glen Barrett', 'Rick Byrnes', 'J.D. Tone', 'dan warner', 'Doug
Anderson',
land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR


On Feb 11, 2008, at 3:37 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:

You are right. The word "racing" never appears there..... So why does my
insurance company think it's racing???
Ed








Ed,don't get me started on life insurance! I can't get lifeinsurance these
days, even if I suggest they add a rider saying thatI'm not covered if I buy
the farm while engaged in LSR. And worsestill -- don't I remember hearing that
land speed racing withmotorcycles has a perfect -- ZERO -- fatality count over
the last 60years or whatever? What the heck do they want? How can youget any
better than perfect?


Okay, back to my cave.


Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Feb 12 18:17:38 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:17:38 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <W6526927317198091202865458@webmail12>

Many medical plans Including certain gov't plans) exclude "risky" behavior
like sky-diving, jet skis, and yes, evenSTREET RIDING of motorcycles. There is
a bill in the AZ legislature tooutlaw descrimination by insurance co's of
riders of street licensedmotorcycles.
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Wester Potter [mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 02:09 PM
To: 'Jon Wennerberg'
Cc: 'Ed Van Scoy', land-speed at autox.team.net, 'Rick Byrnes'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR

Jon.Is that a snow cave you are talking about?It is racing . . . against the
clock!Just like ski racing is one competitor against the time clock. Land
speed racing is one vehicle against the clock/computer/elapsed time measuring
device.You are racing against a speed/elapsed time benchmark set by another
competitor and trying to surpass that speed.It is the "Worlds Fastest
Motorsport Event".WesOn Feb 11, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Jon Wennerberg wrote:> On
Feb 11, 2008, at 3:37 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:>> You are right. The word
"racing" never appears there..... So why> does my> insurance company think
it's racing???> Ed>>>>> Ed, don't get me started on life insurance! I can't
get life> insurance these days, even if I suggest they add a rider saying
that> I'm not covered if I buy the farm while engaged in LSR. And worse> still
-- don't I remember hearing that land speed racing with> motorcycles has a
perfect -- ZERO -- fatality count over the last 60> years or whatever? What
the heck do they want? How can you get any> better than perfect?>> Okay, back
to my cave.>> Jon , tall guy with moustache> and two 200 MPH Club hats>
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html>> Land-speed mailing list>> You are subscribed
as wester6935 at comcast.net>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfevr at q.com  Tue Feb 12 18:53:48 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (TOM M SHANNON)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:53:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Tony Pedregon Boomer Video
Message-ID: <BAY122-W41C04917CA1E00998C045CC9240@phx.gbl>

 In case you missed Pomona ESPN coverage ,heres some Tony Fire Video:
7 min race clip and Today Show interview with Tony:

please excuse the 1 min commercial you might have to suffer before it fires:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23125354/

ESPN Pedregon video with nice analysis by Mike Dunn from Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99IfK3xQU4I
Good shot of JF into sandtrap.Tom ShannonMagna, Utah

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Feb 12 19:40:00 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 02:40:00 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Tony Pedregon Boomer Video
Message-ID: <W70285144889141202870400@webmail23>

I was watching this..... I loved Force's answer when asked why he didn't
deploy his chute or brakes... "I forgot"
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: TOM M SHANNON [mailto:saltfevr at q.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 06:53 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Tony Pedregon Boomer Video

 In case you missed Pomona ESPN coverage ,heres some Tony Fire Video:7 min
race clip and Today Show interview with Tony:please excuse the 1 min
commercial you might have to suffer before it
fires:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23125354/ESPN Pedregon video with nice
analysis by Mike Dunn from
Youtube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99IfK3xQU4IGood shot of JF into
sandtrap.Tom ShannonMagna,
Utah_______________________________________________Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.htmlLand-speed mailing listYou are subscribed as
ed at vetteracing.comhttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From NT788 at comcast.net  Wed Feb 13 11:22:03 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:22:03 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR
Message-ID: <021320081822.23861.47B3354B00063A6100005D352212020784C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

vote for Ron Paul

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com> 

> Many medical plans Including certain gov't plans) exclude "risky" behavior 
> like sky-diving, jet skis, and yes, evenSTREET RIDING of motorcycles. There is 
> a bill in the AZ legislature tooutlaw descrimination by insurance co's of 
> riders of street licensedmotorcycles. 
> Ed 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Wester Potter [mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net] 
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 02:09 PM 
> To: 'Jon Wennerberg' 
> Cc: 'Ed Van Scoy', land-speed at autox.team.net, 'Rick Byrnes' 
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCAR non-LSR 
> 
> Jon.Is that a snow cave you are talking about?It is racing . . . against the 
> clock!Just like ski racing is one competitor against the time clock. Land 
> speed racing is one vehicle against the clock/computer/elapsed time measuring 
> device.You are racing against a speed/elapsed time benchmark set by another 
> competitor and trying to surpass that speed.It is the "Worlds Fastest 
> Motorsport Event".WesOn Feb 11, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Jon Wennerberg wrote:> On 
> Feb 11, 2008, at 3:37 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:>> You are right. The word 
> "racing" never appears there..... So why> does my> insurance company think 
> it's racing???> Ed>>>>> Ed, don't get me started on life insurance! I can't 
> get life> insurance these days, even if I suggest they add a rider saying 
> that> I'm not covered if I buy the farm while engaged in LSR. And worse> still 
> -- don't I remember hearing that land speed racing with> motorcycles has a 
> perfect -- ZERO -- fatality count over the last 60> years or whatever? What 
> the heck do they want? How can you get any> better than perfect?>> Okay, back 
> to my cave.>> Jon , tall guy with moustache> and two 200 MPH Club hats> 
> _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net 
> http://www.team.net/donate.html>> Land-speed mailing list>> You are subscribed 
> as wester6935 at comcast.net>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Feb 13 19:36:11 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:36:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: End of the High performance car???
References: <000001c86eac$d4ecd420$1800a8c0@WSAPR.local>
Message-ID: <96A2BE83-616B-4D83-8B0E-CDADAE524C97@comcast.net>

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
> Date: February 13, 2008 6:56:36 PM MST
> To: "Win Phelps" <win359 at yahoo.com>, "Roger Gisseman" <RGisseman at slco.org 
> >, "W S Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Stieg Svard" <axel_rod at msn.com 
> >, "Steve Johnson" <gsjohnson2003 at yahoo.com>, "Jon Wennerberg" <wennerberg at nancyandjon.org 
> >, <hcgarage at comcast.net>, "Dave Pinkney" <pinkelko at yahoo.com>,  
> "'Barrie Strachan'" <dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Robert Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com 
> >
> Subject: End of the High performance car???
>
> Better rush out there and buy that Z1 while there's still time . . .  
> if you can believe this guys prediction:
>
> http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=455013&topart=utes

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Feb 13 20:02:47 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:02:47 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: End of the High performance car???
In-Reply-To: <96A2BE83-616B-4D83-8B0E-CDADAE524C97@comcast.net>
References: <000001c86eac$d4ecd420$1800a8c0@WSAPR.local>
	<96A2BE83-616B-4D83-8B0E-CDADAE524C97@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47B3AF57.9030507@mayfco.com>

I guess all the gasoline records will be retired and we will all be 
using fuel or diesel or hydrogen or electricity, eh? I'll be too old by 
then anyway...  All our cars will be in small museums...  I guess I need 
to get my car jollies in my Tiger right now...so I think my next move on 
that car is a 500 hp street motor...  Maybe a nice 350 hp ground pounder 
with a 150 shot, lol... just the thing for running to the handi mart for 
a 6 pack...

mayf
Wester Potter wrote:

>Begin forwarded message:
>
>  
>
>>From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
>>Date: February 13, 2008 6:56:36 PM MST
>>To: "Win Phelps" <win359 at yahoo.com>, "Roger Gisseman" <RGisseman at slco.org 
>>    
>>
>>>, "W S Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Stieg Svard" <axel_rod at msn.com 
>>>, "Steve Johnson" <gsjohnson2003 at yahoo.com>, "Jon Wennerberg" <wennerberg at nancyandjon.org 
>>>, <hcgarage at comcast.net>, "Dave Pinkney" <pinkelko at yahoo.com>,  
>>>      
>>>
>>"'Barrie Strachan'" <dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Robert Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com 
>>    
>>
>>Subject: End of the High performance car???
>>
>>Better rush out there and buy that Z1 while there's still time . . .  
>>if you can believe this guys prediction:
>>
>>http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=455013&topart=utes
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Wed Feb 13 20:46:20 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:46:20 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: End of the High performance car???
Message-ID: <00a801c86ebc$29c39650$b2272544@john>

The Big 3 can just dust off the designs for the direct injected 2 cycle 
engines they were going to use in the early 90's till congress canceled the 
stiff CAFE standards . They say they are a lot cleaner and less thirsty not 
to mention cheaper and lighter .

John 

From advo at comcast.net  Wed Feb 13 22:28:16 2008
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:28:16 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
In-Reply-To: <47B3AF57.9030507@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <C3D92D90.DF7%advo@comcast.net>

We would like to run two 12 volt electric water pumps on our racer this
August.  Can anyone recommend or discourage particular pumps?  We have used
the Centripuppy bait cooler pump, but it is no longer available, and it was
a bit fragile.

Greg
http://salt2salt.com

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 14 00:35:21 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:35:21 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
References: <C3D92D90.DF7%advo@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c86edc$27ec30b0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

West Marine GROCO FLO MASTER CENTRIFUGAL, Same as Jabsco brass impeller 
centrifugal pump 12VDC.

Also try a CSR remote or Meziere remote. (Summit, Jegs) Meziere has 20, 35, 
& 55 gpm. Check out the websites them put in the numbers to Summit.

Good Luck--JD



> We would like to run two 12 volt electric water pumps on our racer this
> August.  Can anyone recommend or discourage particular pumps?  We have 
> used
> the Centripuppy bait cooler pump, but it is no longer available, and it 
> was
> a bit fragile.
>
> Greg
> http://salt2salt.com

From mactem at mebtel.net  Thu Feb 14 06:41:27 2008
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:41:27 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
Message-ID: <006701c86f0f$4cdddc60$0300a8c0@brightstar>

If all the future cars run on other fuels, then the price of gas will
fall and we'll still be able to run our gas class. And like Lutz says...
There will always be people who will find a way to go fast.  
David

From advo at comcast.net  Thu Feb 14 09:12:59 2008
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:12:59 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] FW:  Electric water pumps
In-Reply-To: <C3D92D90.DF7%advo@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C3D9C4AB.E0E%advo@comcast.net>

Thanks guys,
I should be able to find motorhome hot water pumps in the land of the
Winabago.......
Greg

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Thu Feb 14 09:19:36 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:19:36 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
References: <C3D92D90.DF7%advo@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47B46A18.000004.00140@D3DP98F1>

We used to run Jabsco Pumps, but they were a bit weak on deliver. I now run
a CSI  Pump. They can be used in stock location or as a remote pump. I
believe that they deliver around 35 GPM.

Tom, Redding CA  - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: Greg Meyers
Date: 2/13/2008 9:28:41 PM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps

We would like to run two 12 volt electric water pumps on our racer this
August.  Can anyone recommend or discourage particular pumps?  We have used
the Centripuppy bait cooler pump, but it is no longer available, and it was
a bit fragile.

Greg
http://salt2salt.com
_______________________________________________

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_pets_cat1_en.gif]

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Feb 14 09:36:49 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:36:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
In-Reply-To: <000a01c86edc$27ec30b0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

How does a person determine the proper "gpm" for a given application?
How much is too much?  Or is there such a thing as too much?

Thanks,

David in Durango


Also try a CSR remote or Meziere remote. (Summit, Jegs) Meziere has 20,
35,
& 55 gpm. Check out the websites them put in the numbers to Summit.

Good Luck--JD

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Thu Feb 14 11:18:37 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:18:37 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>

Always run a thermostat or restriction. Water that moves too fast will not
pick up the heat. I prefer a 190 degree F. thermostat.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: Adin, David
Date: 2/14/2008 8:37:29 AM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps

How does a person determine the proper "gpm" for a given application?
How much is too much?  Or is there such a thing as too much?

Thanks,

David in Durango

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_pets_cat1_en.gif]

From jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Feb 14 11:58:37 2008
From: jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net (John Thornton)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:58:37 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
In-Reply-To: <006701c86f0f$4cdddc60$0300a8c0@brightstar>
References: <006701c86f0f$4cdddc60$0300a8c0@brightstar>
Message-ID: <47B48F5D.20303@sbcglobal.net>

If gasoline isn't refined in huge quantities for road vehicles it will 
be expensive as hell and difficult to obtain. Think AVGas only worse.
Most people on this list aren't particularly young are they?
Don't most of you remember this "end of performance" garbage in the 1970's?
My new Mustang outperforms my uncle's (since destroyed) Shelby GT350 in 
every aspect of performance quite easily. It outperforms his GT 500 KR 
(also since destroyed) as well.
A small efficient generator (running on ?) providing AC power to 4 hub 
motors will make for a very fast ride.
At least that's the theory I'm currently working on   : )

John Thornton




Mobley-Anderson wrote:
> If all the future cars run on other fuels, then the price of gas will
> fall and we'll still be able to run our gas class. And like Lutz says...
> There will always be people who will find a way to go fast.  
> David

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Feb 14 12:11:43 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:11:43 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] FW:  Electric water pumps
In-Reply-To: <C3D9C4AB.E0E%advo@comcast.net>
References: <C3D92D90.DF7%advo@comcast.net>
  <C3D9C4AB.E0E%advo@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20080214191139.38B7E187872@autox.team.net>

Most RV waterpumps deliver about 3 gals per minute......not nearly 
enough. aim for 20 and cooling will be good. And they don't generally 
like hot water.....at all.
Skip (Skip's RV Service)






At 08:12 AM 2/14/2008, Greg Meyers wrote:
>Thanks guys,
>I should be able to find motorhome hot water pumps in the land of the
>Winabago.......
>Greg

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Thu Feb 14 12:20:08 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:20:08 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
Message-ID: <c2e.2a8cc4e6.34e5ee68@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/14/2008 2:03:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net writes:

Don't  most of you remember this "end of performance" garbage in the  1970's?
The last of the performance cars are now called "Muscle cars," I wonder  what 
they'll call today's big HP cars in the distant future?


A small efficient generator (running on ?) providing AC power  to 4 hub 
motors will make for a very fast ride.
At least that's the  theory I'm currently working on   : )
Dodge had a concept pickup several years ago, called it the Contractor  
special, never made production. Wheel motors in front hubs, RWD, big generator  to 
feed the motors and provide job site power and for emergency black outs.  Put 
a diesel in it and you'd think it would be a big seller, but?



Bob W

 



**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy 
Awards. Go to AOL Music.      
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)

From advo at comcast.net  Thu Feb 14 13:59:52 2008
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:59:52 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] FW:  Electric water pumps
Message-ID: <C3DA07E8.E28%advo@comcast.net>

Thanks Skip.  The Centripuppy I used before had a bronze pump, and no
plastic parts. It was advertised at 19.5gpm at 3 ft head.  The replacement
being sold is plastic.  I suppose whatever is used should be built to
withstand perhaps 300 degrees and pressures
up to maybe 50 pounds?

In addition, to summarize what has been suggested in this thread:
You believe about 20 gpm is adequate to carry away heat from perhaps 300 hp
applied over perhaps 6 minutes, without a water reservoir beyond
conventional hoses and radiator.  A 3/4" restriction either as a thermostat
or fitting should be in the return line?
Greg

On 2/14/08 1:11 PM, "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com> wrote:

> 
> Most RV waterpumps deliver about 3 gals per minute......not nearly
> enough. aim for 20 and cooling will be good. And they don't generally
> like hot water.....at all.
> Skip (Skip's RV Service)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 08:12 AM 2/14/2008, Greg Meyers wrote:
>> Thanks guys,
>> I should be able to find motorhome hot water pumps in the land of the
>> Winabago.......
>> Greg

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Feb 14 16:18:57 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:18:57 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] FW:  Electric water pumps
In-Reply-To: <C3DA07E8.E28%advo@comcast.net>
References: <C3DA07E8.E28%advo@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20080214231905.C3664187646@autox.team.net>

Yes I do. It should be plenty if the radiator has sufficient 
capacity. I cool about 1200 hp easily for about 2 minutes with 30 
gallons of water and a 180 degree thermostat at 32 gpm. No radiator.




At 12:59 PM 2/14/2008, Greg Meyers wrote:
>Thanks Skip.  The Centripuppy I used before had a bronze pump, and no
>plastic parts. It was advertised at 19.5gpm at 3 ft head.  The replacement
>being sold is plastic.  I suppose whatever is used should be built to
>withstand perhaps 300 degrees and pressures
>up to maybe 50 pounds?
>
>In addition, to summarize what has been suggested in this thread:
>You believe about 20 gpm is adequate to carry away heat from perhaps 300 hp
>applied over perhaps 6 minutes, without a water reservoir beyond
>conventional hoses and radiator.  A 3/4" restriction either as a thermostat
>or fitting should be in the return line?
>Greg
>
>On 2/14/08 1:11 PM, "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Most RV waterpumps deliver about 3 gals per minute......not nearly
> > enough. aim for 20 and cooling will be good. And they don't generally
> > like hot water.....at all.
> > Skip (Skip's RV Service)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 08:12 AM 2/14/2008, Greg Meyers wrote:
> >> Thanks guys,
> >> I should be able to find motorhome hot water pumps in the land of the
> >> Winabago.......
> >> Greg

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Feb 14 16:22:15 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:22:15 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] FW:  Electric water pumps
Message-ID: <20080214232214.6988B187646@autox.team.net>

Yes I do. It should be plenty if the radiator has sufficient 
capacity. I cool about 1200 hp easily for about 2 minutes with 30 
gallons of water and a 180 degree thermostat at 32 gpm. No radiator.




At 12:59 PM 2/14/2008, Greg Meyers wrote:
>Thanks Skip.  The Centripuppy I used before had a bronze pump, and no
>plastic parts. It was advertised at 19.5gpm at 3 ft head.  The replacement
>being sold is plastic.  I suppose whatever is used should be built to
>withstand perhaps 300 degrees and pressures
>up to maybe 50 pounds?
>
>In addition, to summarize what has been suggested in this thread:
>You believe about 20 gpm is adequate to carry away heat from perhaps 300 hp
>applied over perhaps 6 minutes, without a water reservoir beyond
>conventional hoses and radiator.  A 3/4" restriction either as a thermostat
>or fitting should be in the return line?
>Greg
>
>On 2/14/08 1:11 PM, "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Most RV waterpumps deliver about 3 gals per minute......not nearly
> > enough. aim for 20 and cooling will be good. And they don't generally
> > like hot water.....at all.
> > Skip (Skip's RV Service)

From karhu at california.com  Thu Feb 14 16:56:58 2008
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:56:58 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity, was Electric water pumps
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <000001c86f65$4d500910$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>

OK, I'll bite.  How is it that "water that moves too fast will not pick up 
the heat"?  It doesn't make any sense--the faster water moves over a 
surface, the BETTER it will transfer heat.  (I would suppose that would hold 
up to some crazy-high level where the friction of water over the surface 
adds to heat.)
Benn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Adin David" 
<DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps


> Always run a thermostat or restriction. Water that moves too fast will not
> pick up the heat. I prefer a 190 degree F. thermostat.
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Feb 14 17:09:04 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:09:04 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity, was Electric water  pumps
In-Reply-To: <000001c86f65$4d500910$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>
	<000001c86f65$4d500910$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
Message-ID: <47B4D820.1000309@mayfco.com>

Yes, Benn, I am with you. In fact, I think if you look on Stewart water 
pump web site they even explain this ongoing myth. Here is the deal. 
Fast water picks up a littl eheat but since th ewater is flowing so fast 
thenext little increment also picks up the heat until it  all is 
transferred. The system has to be fairly well designed.

mayf
Benn wrote:

>OK, I'll bite.  How is it that "water that moves too fast will not pick up 
>the heat"?  It doesn't make any sense--the faster water moves over a 
>surface, the BETTER it will transfer heat.  (I would suppose that would hold 
>up to some crazy-high level where the friction of water over the surface 
>adds to heat.)
>Benn
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
>To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Adin David" 
><DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
>Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:18 AM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
>
>
>  
>
>>Always run a thermostat or restriction. Water that moves too fast will not
>>pick up the heat. I prefer a 190 degree F. thermostat.
>>
>>Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Thu Feb 14 17:15:45 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:15:45 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity, was Electric water  pumps
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>
	<000001c86f65$4d500910$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
Message-ID: <47B4D9B1.000007.03404@D3DP98F1>

Benn,

I cannot explain it, I just know that has been my experience. Maybe some of
our engineers will jump in here. I'm not the brightest bulb in the
chandelier.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC



------Original Message-------

From: Benn
Date: 2/14/2008 3:58:26 PM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity, was Electric water pumps

OK, I'll bite.  How is it that "water that moves too fast will not pick up
the heat"?  It doesn't make any sense--the faster water moves over a
surface, the BETTER it will transfer heat.  (I would suppose that would hold
up to some crazy-high level where the friction of water over the surface
adds to heat.)
Benn

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_pets_cat1_en.gif]

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Feb 14 17:22:21 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:22:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
In-Reply-To: <47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <007901c86f68$d4e37ee0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Tom;

Water can't move "too fast to pick up the heat" in the block or the
radiator; water picks up heat by increasing its temperature-- if the flow is
low (low volume) the water temperature increase is high. If the flow
(volume) is high, the water temperature increases less but the amount of
heat is the same-- all things being equal otherwise. The total heat absorbed
(in a given time)is the water volume times the temperature increase going
through the block.

One important factor is the pressure in the cooling jacket caused by the
water pump flow and the restriction of the thermostat. Electric pumps
typically don't develop the pressure in the block that a good mechanical
pump can. Low pressure means local hot spots in the block due to lower
boiling temperature caused by low coolant pressure. Water pump flow through
the block & heads add to the radiator pressure cap value.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Tom Bryant
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:19 AM
To: LAND SPEED LIST; Adin David
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps

Always run a thermostat or restriction. Water that moves too fast will not
pick up the heat. I prefer a 190 degree F. thermostat.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: Adin, David
Date: 2/14/2008 8:37:29 AM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps

How does a person determine the proper "gpm" for a given application?
How much is too much?  Or is there such a thing as too much?

Thanks,

David in Durango

[

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Feb 14 17:32:18 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:32:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
In-Reply-To: <c2e.2a8cc4e6.34e5ee68@aol.com>
References: <c2e.2a8cc4e6.34e5ee68@aol.com>
Message-ID: <007f01c86f6a$3919d570$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Bob;

Our old Corporal Type IIB missile transporter was based on a LeTourneau log
hauler-- an air- cooled Continental tank engine driving a DC generator which
powered electric motors in each wheel hub. This monster was steered by a
small spring- loaded toggle switch!

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
BWANA343 at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:20 PM
To: jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???

In a message dated 2/14/2008 2:03:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net writes:

Don't  most of you remember this "end of performance" garbage in the
1970's?
The last of the performance cars are now called "Muscle cars," I wonder
what 
they'll call today's big HP cars in the distant future?


A small efficient generator (running on ?) providing AC power  to 4 hub 
motors will make for a very fast ride.
At least that's the  theory I'm currently working on   : )
Dodge had a concept pickup several years ago, called it the Contractor  
special, never made production. Wheel motors in front hubs, RWD, big
generator  to 
feed the motors and provide job site power and for emergency black outs.
Put 
a diesel in it and you'd think it would be a big seller, but?



Bob W

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Feb 14 17:39:21 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:39:21 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
References: <c2e.2a8cc4e6.34e5ee68@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001901c86f6b$376bbad0$6501a8c0@S>

Talk about Detroit not knowing their market!!  We all know the only reason
that contractors buy those big pickups loaded with toys is that they are ego
food that can be written off.  Eliminate the writeoff and you'd see a lot
more baserock laid down on jobsites.
Who would want to drive a self propelled motor generator on the road?  And
besides, it's the rare jobsite that would need more than one of these.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BWANA343 at aol.com>
To: <jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
> Dodge had a concept pickup several years ago, called it the Contractor
> special, never made production. Wheel motors in front hubs, RWD, big
generator  to
> feed the motors and provide job site power and for emergency black outs.
Put
> a diesel in it and you'd think it would be a big seller, but?
> Bob W

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Thu Feb 14 17:45:03 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:45:03 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity, was Electric water   pumps
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>
	<000001c86f65$4d500910$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
	<47B4D820.1000309@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <47B4E08F.00001C.03404@D3DP98F1>

OK an engineer stepped up to the plate. As I said, I was using a 20 gallon
water tank. Maybe in my case it was cooling too well, therefore the
restriction was needed.

I still want a thermostat. Heat is HP! There is certainly is no advantage to
run an engine under 190 degrees. Strangely, it took many years for the
automotive engineers to realize this. When I was growing up, the CW was to
run a 160 thermostat in the summer and a 180 in the winter. (The heater
wouldn't work with a 160) However, we had a tractor that ran a 180
thermostat year round. Now everything automotive is running about 210
degrees F.

One pound of pressure raises the boiling point of water about 3 degrees. A
20 lb cap will result in a boiling point over 270 degrees and if you are
running coolant (50/50 antifreeze/water) even higher. I know that there is a
limit to how hot you can run safely, but some of our best performance has
been with coolant temps at 250+ degrees.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

------Original Message-------

From: drmayf
Date: 2/14/2008 4:09:38 PM
To: Benn
Cc: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity, was Electric water pumps

Yes, Benn, I am with you. In fact, I think if you look on Stewart water
pump web site they even explain this ongoing myth. Here is the deal.
Fast water picks up a littl eheat but since th ewater is flowing so fast

The next little increment also picks up the heat until it  all is
transferred. The system has to be fairly well designed.

mayf

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_pets_cat1_en.gif]

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Feb 14 17:47:45 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:47:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] FW:  Electric water pumps
In-Reply-To: <20080214231905.C3664187646@autox.team.net>
References: <C3DA07E8.E28%advo@comcast.net>
	<20080214231905.C3664187646@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <008001c86f6c$616c0780$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Check me out on this, Mayf-- 

1. One BTU raises one pound of water one degree F 
2. One horsepower equals 2547 BTU per hour
3. One gallon of water weighs about 8.33 pounds

Depending on the engine's horsepower and its efficiency (waste HP; heat to
be dissipated), these three equations can be used to find required flow,
etc.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Skip Higginbotham
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:19 PM
To: Greg Meyers; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] FW: Electric water pumps

Yes I do. It should be plenty if the radiator has sufficient 
capacity. I cool about 1200 hp easily for about 2 minutes with 30 
gallons of water and a 180 degree thermostat at 32 gpm. No radiator.




At 12:59 PM 2/14/2008, Greg Meyers wrote:
>Thanks Skip.  The Centripuppy I used before had a bronze pump, and no
>plastic parts. It was advertised at 19.5gpm at 3 ft head.  The replacement
>being sold is plastic.  I suppose whatever is used should be built to
>withstand perhaps 300 degrees and pressures
>up to maybe 50 pounds?
>
>In addition, to summarize what has been suggested in this thread:
>You believe about 20 gpm is adequate to carry away heat from perhaps 300 hp
>applied over perhaps 6 minutes, without a water reservoir beyond
>conventional hoses and radiator.  A 3/4" restriction either as a thermostat
>or fitting should be in the return line?
>Greg
>
>On 2/14/08 1:11 PM, "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Most RV waterpumps deliver about 3 gals per minute......not nearly
> > enough. aim for 20 and cooling will be good. And they don't generally
> > like hot water.....at all.
> > Skip (Skip's RV Service)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 08:12 AM 2/14/2008, Greg Meyers wrote:
> >> Thanks guys,
> >> I should be able to find motorhome hot water pumps in the land of the
> >> Winabago.......
> >> Greg
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Feb 14 17:49:15 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:49:15 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Travel Sensors?
Message-ID: <47B4E18B.7020909@charter.net>

We are going to add a couple new sensors to our LM-1 Data system. Does 
anyone know any good supplier for linear travel sensor or string pot 
type sensor?
The travel on the suspension will only be about 1/2 inch but I can use a 
bell crank to make it read more than that. If you have a bad story just 
send me an off line email so we don't make anyone mad.    Doug Odom in 
big ditch still not a happy camper about not being able to race in 
Australia and the plane ticket is not refundable.

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Thu Feb 14 17:51:08 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:51:08 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>
	<007901c86f68$d4e37ee0$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <47B4E1FC.000022.03404@D3DP98F1>

Well stated Neil. ......I told you I was not the brightest!

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: neil at dbelltech.com
Date: 2/14/2008 4:29:30 PM
To: 'Tom Bryant';  'LAND SPEED LIST';  'Adin David'
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps

Tom;

Water can't move "too fast to pick up the heat" in the block or the
radiator; water picks up heat by increasing its temperature-- if the flow is
low (low volume) the water temperature increase is high. If the flow
(volume) is high, the water temperature increases less but the amount of
heat is the same-- all things being equal otherwise. The total heat absorbed
(in a given time)is the water volume times the temperature increase going
through the block.

One important factor is the pressure in the cooling jacket caused by the
water pump flow and the restriction of the thermostat. Electric pumps
typically don't develop the pressure in the block that a good mechanical
Pump can. Low pressure means local hot spots in the block due to lower
boiling temperature caused by low coolant pressure. Water pump flow through
the block & heads add to the radiator pressure cap value.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_pets_cat1_en.gif]

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Feb 14 18:03:13 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:03:13 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity, was Electric water    pumps
In-Reply-To: <47B4E08F.00001C.03404@D3DP98F1>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>
	<000001c86f65$4d500910$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
	<47B4D820.1000309@mayfco.com> <47B4E08F.00001C.03404@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <47B4E4D1.4090101@charter.net>

Tom Bryant wrote:

>OK an engineer stepped up to the plate. As I said, I was using a 20 gallon
>water tank. Maybe in my case it was cooling too well, therefore the
>restriction was needed.
>
>I still want a thermostat. Heat is HP! There is certainly is no advantage to
>run an engine under 190 degrees. Strangely, it took many years for the
>automotive engineers to realize this. When I was growing up, the CW was to
>run a 160 thermostat in the summer and a 180 in the winter. (The heater
>wouldn't work with a 160) However, we had a tractor that ran a 180
>thermostat year round. Now everything automotive is running about 210
>degrees F.
>
>One pound of pressure raises the boiling point of water about 3 degrees. A
>20 lb cap will result in a boiling point over 270 degrees and if you are
>running coolant (50/50 antifreeze/water) even higher. I know that there is a
>limit to how hot you can run safely, but some of our best performance has
>been with coolant temps at 250+ degrees.
>
>Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>
>  
>
This topic reminds me of the first time I ran into this. Shelby was 
running the Mustang at the Trans-am races at Riverside raceway in 
Calif.  It was the middle of summer and very hot. The motors were over 
heating bad until we installed a blanking plate with a 5/8 hole in the 
water outlet. That cured the problem with over heating. Over the years I 
have found that around 5/8 to 3/4 inch works the best in roundy round 
cars. I have heard many different reasons why. All I know is what works 
I go with because I have enough other problems to keep me busy.   Doug 
Odom in big ditch

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Feb 14 18:09:29 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:09:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Travel Sensors?
In-Reply-To: <47B4E18B.7020909@charter.net>
References: <47B4E18B.7020909@charter.net>
Message-ID: <008101c86f6f$6a3f3780$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Doug;

I've found linear position sensors on eBay from time to time. A nice sensor
is the LVDT- type (linear variable differential transformer). It is excited
by an AC source and its magnetic core is used to read the position. Most
require an external electronics circuit to work but now and then you can
find one with built- in electronics.

A linear potentiometer is a lower cost option that is well- suited to
measuring longer travels. 

A "cheap & dirty" solution is to use a conventional potentiometer-- place a
pulley on its shaft and use 1/16" aircraft cable (or even a piece of string)
to rotate the shaft as the cable is pulled up & down. These wear out
eventually (LVDTs don't) and be sure to use a "linear taper" pot.

Well, since your ticket is not refundable I guess you'll just have to go to
OZ for a vacation; it's a great country!

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
DougOdom
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:49 PM
To: LandSpeed List
Subject: [Land-speed] Travel Sensors?

We are going to add a couple new sensors to our LM-1 Data system. Does 
anyone know any good supplier for linear travel sensor or string pot 
type sensor?
The travel on the suspension will only be about 1/2 inch but I can use a 
bell crank to make it read more than that. If you have a bad story just 
send me an off line email so we don't make anyone mad.    Doug Odom in 
big ditch still not a happy camper about not being able to race in 
Australia and the plane ticket is not refundable.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Feb 14 18:16:06 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:16:06 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net><47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>
	<007901c86f68$d4e37ee0$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <003701c86f70$596ac950$6501a8c0@S>

Always an interesting subject.  I'd like to stick my fingers in here to ask if
anyone has some actual up to date data for modern engines on the heat loss to
coolant.  If you've messed around with engines on dynos a lot maybe you can
lend some insight.
The data I have is from a chart in the 1944 edition of Obert and Jennings,
Internal Combustion Engines, Analysis and Practice.  Test engine was an 8
cylinder flathead somewhere around 280 cubic inches and 5.4:1 compression
ratio.  Heat lost to "coolant", which included water as well as  radiation and
conduction from hot external surfaces ranged from 9.4% at 1000 rpm to 8.7% at
3600 rpm.  Percentages are related to the total BTU content of the fuel
consumed.  Kind of hard to extrapolate this to your "run of the mill" 600hp
small block.
Any good data points out there?
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message -----
From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: "'Tom Bryant'" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>; "'LAND SPEED LIST'"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>; "'Adin David'" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 14 18:46:31 2008
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:46:31 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net><47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1><007901c86f68$d4e37ee0$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<003701c86f70$596ac950$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <00b401c86f74$9710a8c0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Compression ratio is directly related to thermal efficiency--with a low cr 
of 5.4 it dumps a lot of heat into the water.

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: <neil at dbelltech.com>; "'Tom Bryant'" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>; "'LAND 
SPEED LIST'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "'Adin David'" 
<DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps


> Always an interesting subject.  I'd like to stick my fingers in here to 
> ask if
> anyone has some actual up to date data for modern engines on the heat loss 
> to
> coolant.  If you've messed around with engines on dynos a lot maybe you 
> can
> lend some insight.
> The data I have is from a chart in the 1944 edition of Obert and Jennings,
> Internal Combustion Engines, Analysis and Practice.  Test engine was an 8
> cylinder flathead somewhere around 280 cubic inches and 5.4:1 compression
> ratio.  Heat lost to "coolant", which included water as well as  radiation 
> and
> conduction from hot external surfaces ranged from 9.4% at 1000 rpm to 8.7% 
> at
> 3600 rpm.  Percentages are related to the total BTU content of the fuel
> consumed.  Kind of hard to extrapolate this to your "run of the mill" 
> 600hp
> small block.
> Any good data points out there?
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
> To: "'Tom Bryant'" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>; "'LAND SPEED LIST'"
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "'Adin David'" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electric water pumps
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as jolylance at earthlink.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Fri Feb 15 01:15:02 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:15:02 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity,
 was Electric water     pumps
Message-ID: <002f01c86faa$de658de0$b2272544@john>

This talk of waste heat brings to mind Bruce Crower's 6 cycle engines that 
don't need radiators . 

John

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Fri Feb 15 07:28:05 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:28:05 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
In-Reply-To: <007f01c86f6a$3919d570$0200a8c0@DBTech>
References: <c2e.2a8cc4e6.34e5ee68@aol.com>
	<007f01c86f6a$3919d570$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <23076918-487B-4C7D-9F8A-DF154498666F@nancyandjon.org>

On Feb 14, 2008, at 7:32 PM, <neil at dbelltech.com>  
<neil at dbelltech.com> wrote:

Bob;

Our old Corporal Type IIB missile transporter was based on a  
LeTourneau log
hauler-- an air- cooled Continental tank engine driving a DC  
generator which
powered electric motors in each wheel hub. This monster was steered by a
small spring- loaded toggle switch!

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ




Ditto the LeTourneau-Westinghouse earthmovers -- those giant units  
they used to build the interstate highways.  One diesel engine in  
front driving a generator, and a grab-bar for the operator to hold --  
with a toggle switch conveniently located by each thumb.  Click right  
switch for right turn, click left switch for left turn.  Don't ask me  
what'd happen if they clicked both at the same time -- I was about 10  
years old and didn't have the opportunity to drive one.

Also -- it's not uncommon for mining haul trucks to be equipped with  
diesel-electric drives, and by haul trucks I mean the BIG ones -- 325  
(and more) ton payload, gross weight on the order of a million  
pounds.  I believe they're rear-wheel drive only, and steering is by  
the more traditional form of turning the front wheels this way or that.


Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From dwright at genetics.utah.edu  Fri Feb 15 09:16:40 2008
From: dwright at genetics.utah.edu (Dan Wright)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:16:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Linear travel sensor
In-Reply-To: <CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF674DC7201E4@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>
References: <CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF674DC7201E4@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF674DC7201E7@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>

Doug, list
I am also recording suspension travel on my liner.  I made my own linear
travel sensors.  I took a throttle position sensor, made a mount block from
aluminum, it carries a bearing and mounts the sensor to the chassis.  I added
a shaft and lever arm.  I ran them front and rear, they worked well.

These particular sensors are from Dodge Mini vans with the V-6, but there is
nothing special about that, I just had a couple of them.  They need a +5 V
input, a ground and they output 0-5V signal.
I would be glad to answer questions or discuss this further.
It is a low buck way to get the job done.


Daniel Wright

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of MVC-016S.JPG]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of MVC-017S.JPG]

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Feb 15 09:25:35 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:25:35 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity,
 was Electric water      pumps
In-Reply-To: <002f01c86faa$de658de0$b2272544@john>
References: <002f01c86faa$de658de0$b2272544@john>
Message-ID: <47B5BCFF.2090001@mayfco.com>

Interesting catch. When I looked through the article I googled, it was 
last updated in 2006....makes you wonder if it is viable. That article 
said at that time that it had  not under gone any kind  of load testing 
on a dyno. Also he was hollering about how it could reduce the truck 
weight if the radiator and all that cooling water was removed...but 
didn't stress that an amount of water equal to the amount of fuel was 
need to be carried along the vehicle. 

mayf
John Burk wrote:

>This talk of waste heat brings to mind Bruce Crower's 6 cycle engines that 
>don't need radiators . 
>
>John
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Fri Feb 15 10:23:21 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:23:21 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Linear travel sensor
References: <CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF674DC7201E4@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>
	<CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF674DC7201E7@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <001d01c86ff7$97330e50$6501a8c0@Rick>

For the not so economical linear potentiometers try Penny + Giles
www.racingsensors.com
I have used one as throttle position sensor and it works well.  Suspension 
sensors to be added yet this year
Actully they are not really expensive as durability and reliability are 
quite good.  I'm finding that we are having problems with "cheap" connectors 
that are much too large for the application.
That is something to tackle later when I get this thing running again.

Rick 

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Fri Feb 15 10:53:06 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:53:06 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity,
 was Electric water      pumps
References: <002f01c86faa$de658de0$b2272544@john>
Message-ID: <47B5D182.000007.01600@D3DP98F1>

How about Smokey Yunick's "Hot Vapor Cycle Engine". As I recall, he said the
unexpected side effect of this experiment was that the cooling fan never
came on. He saw a future engine that used no cooling system.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: John Burk
Date: 2/15/2008 12:15:35 AM
To: LandSpeed List
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity, was Electric water pumps

This talk of waste heat brings to mind Bruce Crower's 6 cycle engines that
don't need radiators .

John
_______________________________________________

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_pets_cat1_en.gif]

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Fri Feb 15 11:13:30 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:13:30 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR - helmet vs. turban
Message-ID: <4327B3D5-F8F9-4180-99BC-0B778CB322A3@nancyandjon.org>

I'll break this into two emails so it doesn't get kicked out because  
it's too long.  Believe this if you'd like to do so:

Part One:  Watchdog backs motorcyclist in turban battle
Feb 15, 2008 04:30 AM
BOB MITCHELL
STAFF REPORTER
The Ontario Human Rights Commission has ridden to the defence of a  
Brampton
man who says being forced to wear a motorcycle helmet instead of his  
turban
runs counter to his religious faith.

Baljinder Badesha, above, who was charged by Peel police in September  
2005
with failing to wear a helmet, said he understands the inherent  
dangers of
riding a motorcycle without a helmet but is willing to take the risk to
follow his Sikh tenets.

"I know it is for safety, but people die in car accidents all the  
time," the
39-year-old owner of a used car dealership said yesterday outside a  
Brampton
court. He is fighting a $110 ticket he received for wearing his turban
instead of a helmet while riding his motorcycle on Queen St. in Brampton
near Hwy. 410.

Now the Ontario Human Rights Commission is siding with him, insisting
Badesha is being discriminated against.

"Telling Mr. Badesha to choose between his religion or participating  
in the
normal life of Ontario is discrimination," Scott Hutchison, an  
attorney for
the human rights commission, told a Brampton court yesterday.

"Roads and riding a motorcycle are something that is available to  
everybody
in Ontario provided they wear a helmet. But that condition makes it
impossible for Mr. Bedesha and everybody of the Sikh religion. That  
amounts
to discrimination."

He said the Human Rights code "prevails" over the Highway Traffic Act  
(HTA).
Forcing him to wear his helmet "infringes on his human dignity,"  
Hutchison
said.

Badesha hasn't ridden his motorcycle since he received his ticket.

"I was riding for three or four weeks. They caught me one day and  
gave me a
ticket," said Badesha, outside of the courtroom. "I haven't ridden  
since."

The married father of four has also been prevented from test-riding
motorcycles sold at his dealership.

To be continued

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Fri Feb 15 11:14:22 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:14:22 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
Message-ID: <781AD4C8-928B-4A85-BF60-261748D97456@nancyandjon.org>

Having previously resided in British Columbia, where Sikhs are exempt  
from
wearing helmets, he said he didn't know it was against the law in  
Ontario.
Court heard that Manitoba also makes the exemption as does the United
Kingdom, Hong Kong and India.

In an affidavit entered in court, Badesha said he had a "sincere" belief
that he was obligated under the tenets of his faith to wear a turban  
at all
times when outside his home.

"We want an exemption for our religion," he said outside court.

Hutchison said Badesha would not be required to take off his turban  
if he
went into a restaurant that had a requirement for people to take off  
their
hats.

"The code would apply," he said.

Should Justice James Blacklock acquit Badesha on the grounds he was
discriminated against, Hutchison said it would not prohibit officers  
from
laying charges against other Sikhs, who would have to seek similar  
relief
from the courts.

The trial continues today.


Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Feb 15 12:01:00 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:01:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Automobile/racing internet sites
References: <91C575BF-29E9-4DB7-8E03-35A5AE12C703@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BF685EF6-7E28-4293-8882-00C2C596C925@comcast.net>

> Found a new list of sites that apparently are broken down by number  
> of hits and other sites the viewer visits.
>
> Check out this listing and see if there are auto related sites you  
> may not know about that could interest you.
>
> http://www.quantcast.com/search/saltflats.com
>
> Wes

From karhu at california.com  Fri Feb 15 13:29:54 2008
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:29:54 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
References: <781AD4C8-928B-4A85-BF60-261748D97456@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <000701c87011$8620ca70$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>

And if I had a "sincere belief" that speed laws shouldn't apply to me,
then I should be allowed to speed at will, right?  

And what ever happened to the Florida case of the woman who said it
was against her religion to remove her burqa for a DMV photo?
Benn



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Wennerberg" <jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org>
To: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:14 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two


> Having previously resided in British Columbia, where Sikhs are exempt  
> from
> wearing helmets, he said he didn't know it was against the law in  
> Ontario.
> Court heard that Manitoba also makes the exemption as does the United
> Kingdom, Hong Kong and India.
> 
> In an affidavit entered in court, Badesha said he had a "sincere" belief
> that he was obligated under the tenets of his faith to wear a turban  
> at all
> times when outside his home.
> 
> "We want an exemption for our religion," he said outside court.
> 
> Hutchison said Badesha would not be required to take off his turban  
> if he
> went into a restaurant that had a requirement for people to take off  
> their
> hats.
> 
> "The code would apply," he said.
> 
> Should Justice James Blacklock acquit Badesha on the grounds he was
> discriminated against, Hutchison said it would not prohibit officers  
> from
> laying charges against other Sikhs, who would have to seek similar  
> relief
> from the courts.
> 
> The trial continues today.
> 
> 
> Jon , tall guy with moustache
> and two 200 MPH Club hats
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as karhu at california.com
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Fri Feb 15 15:13:30 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:13:30 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity,
 was Electric water      pumps
Message-ID: <000201c87020$00b586a0$b2272544@john>

Mayf

You could have an exhaust steam condenser where the radiator normally is .

> Interesting catch. When I looked through the article I googled, it was
> last updated in 2006....makes you wonder if it is viable. That article
> said at that time that it had  not under gone any kind  of load testing on
> a dyno. Also he was hollering about how it could reduce the truck weight
> if the radiator and all that cooling water was removed...but didn't stress
> that an amount of water equal to the amount of fuel was need to be carried
> along the vehicle.
> mayf
> John Burk wrote:
>
>>This talk of waste heat brings to mind Bruce Crower's 6 cycle engines that
>>don't need radiators .
>>John
>>_______________________________________________
>>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Feb 15 15:20:44 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:20:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR - helmet vs. turban
In-Reply-To: <4327B3D5-F8F9-4180-99BC-0B778CB322A3@nancyandjon.org>
References: <4327B3D5-F8F9-4180-99BC-0B778CB322A3@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <00e901c87021$02198e00$0200a8c0@DBTech>

...wrap the turban around the OUTSIDE of the helmet---- QED... problem
solved.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Jon Wennerberg
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 11:14 AM
To: Land Speed Digest
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR - helmet vs. turban

I'll break this into two emails so it doesn't get kicked out because  
it's too long.  Believe this if you'd like to do so:

Part One:  Watchdog backs motorcyclist in turban battle
Feb 15, 2008 04:30 AM
BOB MITCHELL
STAFF REPORTER
The Ontario Human Rights Commission has ridden to the defence of a  
Brampton
man who says being forced to wear a motorcycle helmet instead of his  
turban
runs counter to his religious faith.

Baljinder Badesha, above, who was charged by Peel police in September  
2005
with failing to wear a helmet, said he understands the inherent  
dangers of
riding a motorcycle without a helmet but is willing to take the risk to
follow his Sikh tenets.

"I know it is for safety, but people die in car accidents all the  
time," the
39-year-old owner of a used car dealership said yesterday outside a  
Brampton
court. He is fighting a $110 ticket he received for wearing his turban
instead of a helmet while riding his motorcycle on Queen St. in Brampton
near Hwy. 410.

Now the Ontario Human Rights Commission is siding with him, insisting
Badesha is being discriminated against.

"Telling Mr. Badesha to choose between his religion or participating  
in the
normal life of Ontario is discrimination," Scott Hutchison, an  
attorney for
the human rights commission, told a Brampton court yesterday.

"Roads and riding a motorcycle are something that is available to  
everybody
in Ontario provided they wear a helmet. But that condition makes it
impossible for Mr. Bedesha and everybody of the Sikh religion. That  
amounts
to discrimination."

He said the Human Rights code "prevails" over the Highway Traffic Act  
(HTA).
Forcing him to wear his helmet "infringes on his human dignity,"  
Hutchison
said.

Badesha hasn't ridden his motorcycle since he received his ticket.

"I was riding for three or four weeks. They caught me one day and  
gave me a
ticket," said Badesha, outside of the courtroom. "I haven't ridden  
since."

The married father of four has also been prevented from test-riding
motorcycles sold at his dealership.

To be continued

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Feb 15 15:24:27 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:24:27 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity,
 was Electric water       pumps
In-Reply-To: <000201c87020$00b586a0$b2272544@john>
References: <000201c87020$00b586a0$b2272544@john>
Message-ID: <47B6111B.4030604@mayfco.com>

So how would that work?  Isn't the water direct injected into the 
combustion chamber? So wouldn't you have to somehow sort all the 
combustion junk out of the water to keep from fouling the injectors? Or 
have I got this motor all wrong? Yeah, that is a high probability, lol...

mayf
John Burk wrote:

>Mayf
>
>You could have an exhaust steam condenser where the radiator normally is .
>
>  
>
>>Interesting catch. When I looked through the article I googled, it was
>>last updated in 2006....makes you wonder if it is viable. That article
>>said at that time that it had  not under gone any kind  of load testing on
>>a dyno. Also he was hollering about how it could reduce the truck weight
>>if the radiator and all that cooling water was removed...but didn't stress
>>that an amount of water equal to the amount of fuel was need to be carried
>>along the vehicle.
>>mayf
>>John Burk wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>This talk of waste heat brings to mind Bruce Crower's 6 cycle engines that
>>>don't need radiators .
>>>John
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>Land-speed mailing list
>>>
>>>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>>>
>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>>>      
>>>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Fri Feb 15 15:43:49 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:43:49 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity,
 was Electric water       pumps
Message-ID: <000a01c87024$3c720ca0$b2272544@john>

Having an exhaust valve dedicated to steam would help that problem .


> So how would that work?  Isn't the water direct injected into the 
> combustion chamber? So wouldn't you have to somehow sort all the 
> combustion junk out of the water to keep from fouling the injectors? Or 
> have I got this motor all wrong? Yeah, that is a high probability, lol...
>
> mayf
> John Burk wrote:
>
>>Mayf
>>
>>You could have an exhaust steam condenser where the radiator normally is .
>>
>>
>>>Interesting catch. When I looked through the article I googled, it was
>>>last updated in 2006....makes you wonder if it is viable. That article
>>>said at that time that it had  not under gone any kind  of load testing 
>>>on
>>>a dyno. Also he was hollering about how it could reduce the truck weight
>>>if the radiator and all that cooling water was removed...but didn't 
>>>stress
>>>that an amount of water equal to the amount of fuel was need to be 
>>>carried
>>>along the vehicle.
>>>mayf
>>>John Burk wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>This talk of waste heat brings to mind Bruce Crower's 6 cycle engines 
>>>>that
>>>>don't need radiators .
>>>>John
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>>Land-speed mailing list
>>>>
>>>>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>>>>
>>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Sparky.2211 at cox.net  Fri Feb 15 16:55:53 2008
From: Sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:55:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity, was Electric water   pumps
In-Reply-To: <47B4D820.1000309@mayfco.com>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net><47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1><000001c86f65$4d500910$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
	<47B4D820.1000309@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <605F64D98FB7454DBE0EF4C838DA0499@LindaPC>

IT should all be about pressure and volume---the pressure cap suppllies only 
part of the pressure--the rest needs to come from the pump working against 
restrictions---to keep the steam bubbles supressed---which prevents steam 
pockest from forming!!!!!!!!!!!! 

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Fri Feb 15 17:18:26 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:18:26 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
In-Reply-To: <000701c87011$8620ca70$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
References: <781AD4C8-928B-4A85-BF60-261748D97456@nancyandjon.org>
	<000701c87011$8620ca70$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
Message-ID: <062B3D54BFED4DE1B0E0D91FEB3A1693@DaveSatellite>

These people are forgetting one of their most scared rights.. the right to 
leave if they don't like their surroundings. I find it astounding how many 
immigrants want more rights than the citizens and out court system goes 
along with it. The ACLU and others like it out real homeland security 
problem in my mind..
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Benn" <karhu at california.com>
To: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two


> And if I had a "sincere belief" that speed laws shouldn't apply to me,
> then I should be allowed to speed at will, right?
>
> And what ever happened to the Florida case of the woman who said it
> was against her religion to remove her burqa for a DMV photo?
> Benn

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Fri Feb 15 18:00:49 2008
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:00:49 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
Message-ID: <d32.24550e81.34e78fc1@aol.com>

If this turban yahoo does have a motorcycle dealership every effort should be 
made to see that he NEVER sells one. Starve him out of busness maybe he'll go 
home. Bob in connecticut



**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy 
Awards. Go to AOL Music.      
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 18:23:44 2008
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:23:44 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity,
 was Electric water     pumps
In-Reply-To: <47B4E4D1.4090101@charter.net>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1>
	<000001c86f65$4d500910$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
	<47B4D820.1000309@mayfco.com> <47B4E08F.00001C.03404@D3DP98F1>
	<47B4E4D1.4090101@charter.net>
Message-ID: <A1840408-3C07-44EB-8EBA-168CC38BE84A@gmail.com>

> This topic reminds me of the first time I ran into this. Shelby was
> running the Mustang at the Trans-am races at Riverside raceway in
> Calif.  It was the middle of summer and very hot. The motors were over
> heating bad until we installed a blanking plate with a 5/8 hole in the
> water outlet. That cured the problem with over heating. Over the  
> years I
> have found that around 5/8 to 3/4 inch works the best in roundy round
> cars. I have heard many different reasons why. All I know is what  
> works
> I go with because I have enough other problems to keep me busy.   Doug
> Odom in big ditch
> _


I think that the reason for this was likely that that water was  
running too fast for the radiator to properly cool it before it got  
back to the motor, and it wasn't able to remove as much heat. With a  
larger radiator, or multi gallon reservoir for the water, you likely  
wouldn't have encountered any problems.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Feb 15 18:40:00 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:40:00 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
References: <d32.24550e81.34e78fc1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006801c8703c$dabce3e0$6501a8c0@S>

Guys--With all due respect; please take this discussion off list.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Want1937hd at aol.com>
To: <ddahlgren at snet.net>; <karhu at california.com>;
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
> If this turban yahoo .......

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 18:45:38 2008
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:45:38 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
In-Reply-To: <47B48F5D.20303@sbcglobal.net>
References: <006701c86f0f$4cdddc60$0300a8c0@brightstar>
	<47B48F5D.20303@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <767CEF24-A555-43D0-B608-B2AFEE2BF8C3@gmail.com>

On Feb 14, 2008, at 10:58 AM, John Thornton wrote:

> If gasoline isn't refined in huge quantities for road vehicles it will
> be expensive as hell and difficult to obtain. Think AVGas only worse.
> Most people on this list aren't particularly young are they?
> Don't most of you remember this "end of performance" garbage in the  
> 1970's?
> My new Mustang outperforms my uncle's (since destroyed) Shelby  
> GT350 in
> every aspect of performance quite easily. It outperforms his GT 500 KR
> (also since destroyed) as well.
> A small efficient generator (running on ?) providing AC power to 4 hub
> motors will make for a very fast ride.
> At least that's the theory I'm currently working on   : )
>

Mitsubishi currently has an Evo that has 4 AC hub motors. It makes  
over a thousand pounds of torque. I think each wheel makes close to 280.

Electric motor tech isn't our big problem. It's batteries. Once we  
have better batteries, everything will go electric. Until then, it's  
just not practical.

From karhu at california.com  Fri Feb 15 19:30:11 2008
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:30:11 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Absolutely Non-LSR turban, part two
References: <781AD4C8-928B-4A85-BF60-261748D97456@nancyandjon.org>
	<000701c87011$8620ca70$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
	<062B3D54BFED4DE1B0E0D91FEB3A1693@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <000501c87043$db1538e0$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>

I can't agree with you there, Dave, even if you're being a bit facetious. 
The ACLU exists to promote free expression guaranteed by the bill of rights. 
Such rights effectively mean little to the majority at any given time, 
because the majority (well, money helps, too) gets their way accepted anyway 
(if not always implemented).  But minority opinions, and especially those 
that we disagree with most, are the ones that need protection if our rights 
are to mean anything.  And it's the constant tug-o-war amongst these various 
forms of expression (and tolerance for the same) that makes our society so 
dynamic and strong and worth our efforts to keep it going, and improve it 
where we can.  Yeah, everyone has a different idea of what "improvement" is 
as well, but, like they say, democracy is messy.  And ain't that just like 
life.
Benn, now off the soapbox

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: "Benn" <karhu at california.com>; "Land Speed Digest" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two


> These people are forgetting one of their most scared rights.. the right to 
> leave if they don't like their surroundings. I find it astounding how many 
> immigrants want more rights than the citizens and out court system goes 
> along with it. The ACLU and others like it out real homeland security 
> problem in my mind..
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Benn" <karhu at california.com>
> To: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
>
>
>> And if I had a "sincere belief" that speed laws shouldn't apply to me,
>> then I should be allowed to speed at will, right?
>>
>> And what ever happened to the Florida case of the woman who said it
>> was against her religion to remove her burqa for a DMV photo?
>> Benn

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sat Feb 16 09:03:37 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:03:37 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Absolutely Non-LSR turban, part two
Message-ID: <021620081603.20409.47B70959000B627400004FB92216548686C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Thanks Benn for taking an unpopular position! Now why can't I cook with briquetes, or have a two stroke. Jack

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Benn" <karhu at california.com> 

> I can't agree with you there, Dave, even if you're being a bit facetious. 
> The ACLU exists to promote free expression guaranteed by the bill of rights. 
> Such rights effectively mean little to the majority at any given time, 
> because the majority (well, money helps, too) gets their way accepted anyway 
> (if not always implemented). But minority opinions, and especially those 
> that we disagree with most, are the ones that need protection if our rights 
> are to mean anything. And it's the constant tug-o-war amongst these various 
> forms of expression (and tolerance for the same) that makes our society so 
> dynamic and strong and worth our efforts to keep it going, and improve it 
> where we can. Yeah, everyone has a different idea of what "improvement" is 
> as well, but, like they say, democracy is messy. And ain't that just like 
> life. 
> Benn, now off the soapbox 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave Dahlgren" 
> To: "Benn" ; "Land Speed Digest" 
> 
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:18 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two 
> 
> 
> > These people are forgetting one of their most scared rights.. the right to 
> > leave if they don't like their surroundings. I find it astounding how many 
> > immigrants want more rights than the citizens and out court system goes 
> > along with it. The ACLU and others like it out real homeland security 
> > problem in my mind.. 
> > Dave 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Benn" 
> > To: "Land Speed Digest" 
> > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:29 PM 
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two 
> > 
> > 
> >> And if I had a "sincere belief" that speed laws shouldn't apply to me, 
> >> then I should be allowed to speed at will, right? 
> >> 
> >> And what ever happened to the Florida case of the woman who said it 
> >> was against her religion to remove her burqa for a DMV photo? 
> >> Benn 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sat Feb 16 09:11:54 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:11:54 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR - helmet vs. turban
Message-ID: <021620081611.9610.47B70B4A000117F90000258A2216548686C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

He came here for freedom I bet! Jack

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: <neil at dbelltech.com> 

> ...wrap the turban around the OUTSIDE of the helmet---- QED... problem 
> solved. 
> 
> Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net 
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of 
> Jon Wennerberg 
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 11:14 AM 
> To: Land Speed Digest 
> Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR - helmet vs. turban 
> 
> I'll break this into two emails so it doesn't get kicked out because 
> it's too long. Believe this if you'd like to do so: 
> 
> Part One: Watchdog backs motorcyclist in turban battle 
> Feb 15, 2008 04:30 AM 
> BOB MITCHELL 
> STAFF REPORTER 
> The Ontario Human Rights Commission has ridden to the defence of a 
> Brampton 
> man who says being forced to wear a motorcycle helmet instead of his 
> turban 
> runs counter to his religious faith. 
> 
> Baljinder Badesha, above, who was charged by Peel police in September 
> 2005 
> with failing to wear a helmet, said he understands the inherent 
> dangers of 
> riding a motorcycle without a helmet but is willing to take the risk to 
> follow his Sikh tenets. 
> 
> "I know it is for safety, but people die in car accidents all the 
> time," the 
> 39-year-old owner of a used car dealership said yesterday outside a 
> Brampton 
> court. He is fighting a $110 ticket he received for wearing his turban 
> instead of a helmet while riding his motorcycle on Queen St. in Brampton 
> near Hwy. 410. 
> 
> Now the Ontario Human Rights Commission is siding with him, insisting 
> Badesha is being discriminated against. 
> 
> "Telling Mr. Badesha to choose between his religion or participating 
> in the 
> normal life of Ontario is discrimination," Scott Hutchison, an 
> attorney for 
> the human rights commission, told a Brampton court yesterday. 
> 
> "Roads and riding a motorcycle are something that is available to 
> everybody 
> in Ontario provided they wear a helmet. But that condition makes it 
> impossible for Mr. Bedesha and everybody of the Sikh religion. That 
> amounts 
> to discrimination." 
> 
> He said the Human Rights code "prevails" over the Highway Traffic Act 
> (HTA). 
> Forcing him to wear his helmet "infringes on his human dignity," 
> Hutchison 
> said. 
> 
> Badesha hasn't ridden his motorcycle since he received his ticket. 
> 
> "I was riding for three or four weeks. They caught me one day and 
> gave me a 
> ticket," said Badesha, outside of the courtroom. "I haven't ridden 
> since." 
> 
> The married father of four has also been prevented from test-riding 
> motorcycles sold at his dealership. 
> 
> To be continued 
> 
> Jon , tall guy with moustache 
> and two 200 MPH Club hats 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Sat Feb 16 10:49:47 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:49:47 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR - helmet vs. turban
References: <021620081611.9610.47B70B4A000117F90000258A2216548686C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c870c4$5382a170$6501a8c0@Rick>

He is not here.  He is in Canada


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <NT788 at comcast.net>
To: <neil at dbelltech.com>; "'Jon Wennerberg'" 
<jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org>; "'Land Speed Digest'" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR - helmet vs. turban


> He came here for freedom I bet! Jack

From john.szalay at att.net  Sat Feb 16 11:10:39 2008
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:10:39 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
References: <781AD4C8-928B-4A85-BF60-261748D97456@nancyandjon.org>
	<000701c87011$8620ca70$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
Message-ID: <2447C7228E30477EB4F6ECED8F383D7D@531W>

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Benn" <karhu at california.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:29 PM
To: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two

> And if I had a "sincere belief" that speed laws shouldn't apply to me,
> then I should be allowed to speed at will, right?
>
> And what ever happened to the Florida case of the woman who said it
> was against her religion to remove her burqa for a DMV photo?
> Benn
>
>

 Still in appeal... But  IIRC: she has turned in her lic. while it goes 
on...

http://www.courttv.com/trials/freeman/backgrounder_ctv.html

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultaana_Freeman 

From jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net  Sat Feb 16 11:20:36 2008
From: jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net (John Thornton)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:20:36 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
In-Reply-To: <767CEF24-A555-43D0-B608-B2AFEE2BF8C3@gmail.com>
References: <006701c86f0f$4cdddc60$0300a8c0@brightstar>
	<47B48F5D.20303@sbcglobal.net>
	<767CEF24-A555-43D0-B608-B2AFEE2BF8C3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47B72974.90102@sbcglobal.net>

Jon Bishop wrote:
> On Feb 14, 2008, at 10:58 AM, John Thornton wrote:
>
>   
>> If gasoline isn't refined in huge quantities for road vehicles it will
>> be expensive as hell and difficult to obtain. Think AVGas only worse.
>> Most people on this list aren't particularly young are they?
>> Don't most of you remember this "end of performance" garbage in the  
>> 1970's?
>> My new Mustang outperforms my uncle's (since destroyed) Shelby  
>> GT350 in
>> every aspect of performance quite easily. It outperforms his GT 500 KR
>> (also since destroyed) as well.
>> A small efficient generator (running on ?) providing AC power to 4 hub
>> motors will make for a very fast ride.
>> At least that's the theory I'm currently working on   : )
>>
>>     
>
> Mitsubishi currently has an Evo that has 4 AC hub motors. It makes  
> over a thousand pounds of torque. I think each wheel makes close to 280.
>
> Electric motor tech isn't our big problem. It's batteries. Once we  
> have better batteries, everything will go electric. Until then, it's  
> just not practical.


Generating electricity on-board makes more sense right now. More so than 
storing energy anyway.
Partial load throttle response is a problem for current lean burn 
technology but that isn't an issue for a motor used only to generate 
electricity.
We can use a lean burn motor only to generate electricity and 
drastically improve economy while not sacrificing performance.
It is possible to get ~50 to ~60 mpg and get performance comparable to a 
500 bhp motor. We have the technology to do this right now and at a 
reasonable cost.
I'm working on a small lean burn motor incorporating infinitely variable 
valve lift, timing, and duration towards this end right now. Since none 
of this is yet patented I can't really go into any detail but it is all 
very "doable" as they say.

John Thornton

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Feb 16 12:00:02 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:00:02 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Linear travel sensor
In-Reply-To: <001d01c86ff7$97330e50$6501a8c0@Rick>
References: <CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF674DC7201E4@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>
	<CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF674DC7201E7@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>
	<001d01c86ff7$97330e50$6501a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <47B732B2.2010101@wildblue.net>

Rick,

Coat all of your connectors and battery cable ends with Ford
"Brake Caliper and Dielectric Silicone Grease". The stuff is
magic.

Bryan


Rick Byrnes wrote:
> For the not so economical linear potentiometers try Penny + Giles
> www.racingsensors.com
> I have used one as throttle position sensor and it works well.  Suspension 
> sensors to be added yet this year
> Actully they are not really expensive as durability and reliability are 
> quite good.  I'm finding that we are having problems with "cheap" connectors 
> that are much too large for the application.
> That is something to tackle later when I get this thing running again.
>
> Rick 
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as b.a.savage at earthlink.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Feb 16 12:20:48 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:20:48 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Cooling water velocity, was Electric water    pumps
In-Reply-To: <605F64D98FB7454DBE0EF4C838DA0499@LindaPC>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A11@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net><47B485FD.00000A.00140@D3DP98F1><000001c86f65$4d500910$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
	<47B4D820.1000309@mayfco.com>
	<605F64D98FB7454DBE0EF4C838DA0499@LindaPC>
Message-ID: <47B73790.4010109@wildblue.net>

FYI:

"the rest needs to come from the pump working against restrictions"

That is the reason for the "Cool Down Lap" and washers where the
thermostat was. --  Smokey Yunick

I read that the Honda F1 1500cc Turbo V-6 had
three atmospheres coolant pressure cold, to prevent
steam pockets.


Bryan



Sparky wrote:
> IT should all be about pressure and volume---the pressure cap suppllies only 
> part of the pressure--the rest needs to come from the pump working against 
> restrictions---to keep the steam bubbles supressed---which prevents steam 
> pockest from forming!!!!!!!!!!!! 
> ______________________________________________

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Feb 16 12:35:47 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:35:47 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
In-Reply-To: <062B3D54BFED4DE1B0E0D91FEB3A1693@DaveSatellite>
References: <781AD4C8-928B-4A85-BF60-261748D97456@nancyandjon.org>
	<000701c87011$8620ca70$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
	<062B3D54BFED4DE1B0E0D91FEB3A1693@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <47B73B13.1080501@wildblue.net>

Thats Diversity in action. France has supported Diversity
for Islamic immigrants and now has areas in their cities
where the Police refuse to go. God help Tourists.
Then there's the Divorce Ceremony for the fundamentalists.
Take wife out side, throw gasoline and a match on her. Oh,
and stuff cotton in your ears.

My, how religious.

Doing insane things is not a right in a modern society.

Bryan




Dave Dahlgren wrote:
> These people are forgetting one of their most scared rights.. the right to 
> leave if they don't like their surroundings. I find it astounding how many 
> immigrants want more rights than the citizens and out court system goes 
> along with it. The ACLU and others like it out real homeland security 
> problem in my mind..
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Benn" <karhu at california.com>
> To: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
>
>
>   
>> And if I had a "sincere belief" that speed laws shouldn't apply to me,
>> then I should be allowed to speed at will, right?
>>
>> And what ever happened to the Florida case of the woman who said it
>> was against her religion to remove her burqa for a DMV photo?
>> Benn
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as b.a.savage at earthlink.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Feb 16 13:42:59 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:42:59 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
In-Reply-To: <062B3D54BFED4DE1B0E0D91FEB3A1693@DaveSatellite>
References: <781AD4C8-928B-4A85-BF60-261748D97456@nancyandjon.org>
	<000701c87011$8620ca70$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop>
	<062B3D54BFED4DE1B0E0D91FEB3A1693@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <47B74AD3.4070902@wildblue.net>

Thats Diversity in action. France has supported Diversity
for Islamic immigrants and now has areas in their cities
where the Police refuse to go. God help Tourists.
Then there's the Divorce Ceremony for the fundamentalists.
Take wife out side, throw gasoline and a match on her. Oh,
and stuff cotton in your ears.

My, how religious.

Doing insane things is not a right in a modern society.

Bryan




Dave Dahlgren wrote:
> These people are forgetting one of their most scared rights.. the right to 
> leave if they don't like their surroundings. I find it astounding how many 
> immigrants want more rights than the citizens and out court system goes 
> along with it. The ACLU and others like it out real homeland security 
> problem in my mind..
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Benn" <karhu at california.com>
> To: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
>
>
>   
>> And if I had a "sincere belief" that speed laws shouldn't apply to me,
>> then I should be allowed to speed at will, right?
>>
>> And what ever happened to the Florida case of the woman who said it
>> was against her religion to remove her burqa for a DMV photo?
>> Benn

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sat Feb 16 13:54:51 2008
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:54:51 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
References: <781AD4C8-928B-4A85-BF60-261748D97456@nancyandjon.org><000701c87011$8620ca70$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop><062B3D54BFED4DE1B0E0D91FEB3A1693@DaveSatellite>
	<47B74AD3.4070902@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <000601c870de$2da0c260$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

If the guy doesn't want to wear a helmet, it's his head, I don't care. How 
much of your person will you give up to the lawmakers just because they are 
the lawmakers. Who will be threatened if I decide to ride without a helmet? 
Or run with scissors? Or drive without seatbelts?  RF
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Cc: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two


> Thats Diversity in action. France has supported Diversity
> for Islamic immigrants and now has areas in their cities
> where the Police refuse to go. God help Tourists.
> Then there's the Divorce Ceremony for the fundamentalists.
> Take wife out side, throw gasoline and a match on her. Oh,
> and stuff cotton in your ears.
>
> My, how religious.
>
> Doing insane things is not a right in a modern society.
>
> Bryan

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sat Feb 16 15:10:54 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:10:54 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cutting Chassis Tubing
Message-ID: <017001c870e8$ccd87300$0200a8c0@DBTech>

List;

 

I'm relocating my chassis front bulkhead to get more legroom and it entails
cutting 2" x 2" tubing members as well as a welded- in sheet steel support
for the pedal assembly. I got tired of fooling around with a small air-
powered abrasive cut- off wheel and tried cutting the tubing with my Ryobi
reciprocating saw. With bi-metal 14 TPI blades it does a great job! It's far
faster than the abrasive wheel and doesn't throw sparks all over the shop.

 

I was skeptical that it was going to be too useful; my previous experience
had been with cutting steel with a saber saw and bimetal blades. That always
worked for a very short time because the stroke was so small that it wore
out a short section of the teeth that did the cutting. The longer stroke and
heavier blades of a reciprocating saw make a big difference.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to pass along this experience for what it's worth. 

 

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

From Sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sat Feb 16 15:13:53 2008
From: Sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:13:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
In-Reply-To: <47B73B13.1080501@wildblue.net>
References: <781AD4C8-928B-4A85-BF60-261748D97456@nancyandjon.org><000701c87011$8620ca70$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop><062B3D54BFED4DE1B0E0D91FEB3A1693@DaveSatellite>
	<47B73B13.1080501@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <98409E3697C34EC2B4750EA47FAC56F0@LindaPC>

you dont have to go to France---we have Cops in AZ that only stop old white 
guys---because they are the SAFE STOP---and are dumb enough to still pay our 
tickets!!!!!!!!!!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Cc: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two


> Thats Diversity in action. France has supported Diversity

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 16 15:43:37 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:43:37 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban,   part  three
In-Reply-To: <000601c870de$2da0c260$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
References: <781AD4C8-928B-4A85-BF60-261748D97456@nancyandjon.org><000701c87011$8620ca70$6801a8c0@BennsDesktop><062B3D54BFED4DE1B0E0D91FEB3A1693@DaveSatellite>
	<47B74AD3.4070902@wildblue.net> 
	<000601c870de$2da0c260$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W43F68A99CEFC0C4737C097D9270@phx.gbl>

I couldn't agree more with you both;

Rich we can thank all the #$%^& Lawyers for all this ludicrous encroachment on
OUR civil RIGHTS

Its all because some S.O.B. wants to make a fortune on insurance payments
while,.. (according to his way of thinking,...) 'not paying'  for trauma
because he can make 'the people wear helmets and seat belts ,thus sparing
themselves from great damage'.

  I think you'll agree;  I RESENT someone 'doing my thinking' for me.

    I can manage quite well on my own thank you.

  -And Bryan; -how true, how true.

 -At the great risk of inciting unrest on this site, let me just say,...

  ...well maybe I better NOT.




   c heers to ya ,  'Dirt  Track  Doug'
    -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
    -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
    -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
    -105 miles south of   'the Syracuse Mile' ...
    -262 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
    -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
           but never more than a few feet from a cold one
          -------------------------- oooo ---------------------------
    Wise words from the ancients  especially in light of today's   ' topic'
:




           VULGAS VULT DECEPI   - Phaedrus

                      ( the (common) people wish to be deceived )



         vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
vvvv


> From: v4gr at rcn.com
> To: b.a.savage at wildblue.net; ddahlgren at snet.net
> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:54:51 -0800
> CC: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two

>
> If the guy doesn't want to wear a helmet, it's his head, I don't care. How
> much of your person will you give up to the lawmakers just because they are
> the lawmakers. Who will be threatened if I decide to ride without a helmet?
> Or run with scissors?   Or drive without seatbelts?      RF

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
> To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
> Cc: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 12:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two


 Thats Diversity in action. France has supported Diversity for Islamic
immigrants and now has areas in their cities where the Police refuse to go.
God help Tourists.


 Then there's the Divorce Ceremony for the fundamentalists.
 Take wife out side, throw gasoline and a match on her. Oh, and stuff cotton
in your ears.

 My, how religious.

 Doing insane things is not a right in a modern society.


                      Bryan

_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Feb 16 15:56:49 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:56:49 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Some classification Questions (non turban,
 religion or  political related)
Message-ID: <47B76A31.6060000@mayfco.com>

Was just sitting here pondering my navel and and some odd thoughts came 
to me. You know they are odd because they are mine, lol... All have to 
do with car propulsion method classifications..

for instance, my car is a BFMS with a C motor (barely). How would the 
classification go if I wanted to stick a small diesel in it? No, not 
planning on it, just curious. Lets say the diesel was 2.5 L displacement 
if that matters...

and, what if I wanted to convert it to electrical propulsion? Would that 
be a ??? Example?  Assume the car weighs 2500 lbs if that matters.


similarly, steam?  
I know Ford run the hydrogen car but it was really electrically 
motivated. The hydrogen only provided the electricity so what class was 
that car in. To my dim thinking that should have been some kind of 
electrical designation.

I know there is a spot in the rules that say someting like  a 
supplemental engine has to contribute to the propulsion of a car before 
it is considered for cubic inch displacement...but wouldn't a gas or 
diesel generator drivng electric propulsion be directly connected 
especially if no batterys are involved anywhere?

Comments? Thoughts?

lets see if we can scare up a meaningful discussion...

oh one final odd one... and it has to do with elec drives. HP is hp when 
it comes to over coming the aero issues and rolling resistance. So it it 
takes 500 hp to go 200 mph wouldn't the elec motor also have to produce 
that same amount of power? And if running off a generator in the car 
wouldn't that also have to have very significant hp as well?


mayf

From ed at vetteracing.com  Sat Feb 16 16:28:47 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 23:28:47 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
Message-ID: <W439328134190411203204527@webmail30>

Exactly Sparky...... As of last month we had 80,000 unserved warrents in
Maricopa County (Phoenix area) .
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Sparky [mailto:Sparky.2211 at cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 03:13 PM
To: 'Bryan Savage', 'Dave Dahlgren'
Cc: 'Land Speed Digest'
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two

you dont have to go to France---we have Cops in AZ that only stop old white
guys---because they are the SAFE STOP---and are dumb enough to still pay our
tickets!!!!!!!!!!----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Savage" To: "Dave
Dahlgren" Cc: "Land Speed Digest" Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 12:35
PMSubject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two> Thats Diversity in
action. France has supported
Diversity_______________________________________________

From ed at vetteracing.com  Sat Feb 16 16:35:02 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 23:35:02 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban,   part  three
Message-ID: <W480819238300091203204902@webmail12>

You know what they say about helmet laws.......... They allow you to have an
open casket funeral.
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Anderson [mailto:boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 03:43 PM
To: 'Rich Fox', 'Bryan Savage', 'Dave Dahlgren'
Cc: 'Land Speed Digest'
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part three

I couldn't agree more with you both;Rich we can thank all the #$%^& Lawyers
for all this ludicrous encroachment onOUR civil RIGHTSIts all because some
S.O.B. wants to make a fortune on insurance paymentswhile,.. (according to his
way of thinking,...) 'not paying' for traumabecause he can make 'the people
wear helmets and seat belts ,thus sparingthemselves from great damage'. I
think you'll agree; I RESENT someone 'doing my thinking' for me. I can manage
quite well on my own thank you. -And Bryan; -how true, how true. -At the great
risk of inciting unrest on this site, let me just say,... ...well maybe I
better NOT. c heers to ya , 'Dirt Track Doug' -22 miles from Square Deal
Raceway, -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway, -63 miles northeast of
Champion Speedway -105 miles south of 'the Syracuse Mile' ... -262 miles north
of Williams Grove Speedway -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
but never more than a few feet from a cold one -------------------------- oooo
-

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Feb 16 16:42:10 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:42:10 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
In-Reply-To: <47B72974.90102@sbcglobal.net>
References: <006701c86f0f$4cdddc60$0300a8c0@brightstar>
	<47B48F5D.20303@sbcglobal.net>
	<767CEF24-A555-43D0-B608-B2AFEE2BF8C3@gmail.com>
	<47B72974.90102@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <47B774D2.3050604@wildblue.net>

John,

Have you looked at HCCI technology? Some interesting possibilities.

Bryan


> Generating electricity on-board makes more sense right now. More so than 
> storing energy anyway.
> Partial load throttle response is a problem for current lean burn 
> technology but that isn't an issue for a motor used only to generate 
> electricity.
> We can use a lean burn motor only to generate electricity and 
> drastically improve economy while not sacrificing performance.
> It is possible to get ~50 to ~60 mpg and get performance comparable to a 
> 500 bhp motor. We have the technology to do this right now and at a 
> reasonable cost.
> I'm working on a small lean burn motor incorporating infinitely variable 
> valve lift, timing, and duration towards this end right now. Since none 
> of this is yet patented I can't really go into any detail but it is all 
> very "doable" as they say.
>
> John Thornton

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sat Feb 16 17:30:45 2008
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:30:45 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Some classification Questions (non turban,
 religion or  political related)
References: <47B76A31.6060000@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <001201c870fc$563543e0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

As I remember there is a steam engine class with a 145 mph record. The 
Diesel/Gas/Nitro Electric question was asked and someone said the class 
would still be decided by the cubic inches of the engine driving the 
generator. What would be cooler than that would be a giant spring that would 
take two Electromotive diesels to wind, installed in your Sunbeam. Point it 
at Floating Mt. and let it go. Have to have another one waiting for the 
return run.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 2:56 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Some classification Questions (non turban, religion or 
political related)


> Was just sitting here pondering my navel and and some odd thoughts came
> to me. You know they are odd because they are mine, lol... All have to
> do with car propulsion method classifications..
>
> for instance, my car is a BFMS with a C motor (barely). How would the
> classification go if I wanted to stick a small diesel in it? No, not
> planning on it, just curious. Lets say the diesel was 2.5 L displacement
> if that matters...
>
> and, what if I wanted to convert it to electrical propulsion? Would that
> be a ??? Example?  Assume the car weighs 2500 lbs if that matters.
>
>
> similarly, steam?
> I know Ford run the hydrogen car but it was really electrically
> motivated. The hydrogen only provided the electricity so what class was
> that car in. To my dim thinking that should have been some kind of
> electrical designation.
>
> I know there is a spot in the rules that say someting like  a
> supplemental engine has to contribute to the propulsion of a car before
> it is considered for cubic inch displacement...but wouldn't a gas or
> diesel generator drivng electric propulsion be directly connected
> especially if no batterys are involved anywhere?
>
> Comments? Thoughts?
>
> lets see if we can scare up a meaningful discussion...
>
> oh one final odd one... and it has to do with elec drives. HP is hp when
> it comes to over coming the aero issues and rolling resistance. So it it
> takes 500 hp to go 200 mph wouldn't the elec motor also have to produce
> that same amount of power? And if running off a generator in the car
> wouldn't that also have to have very significant hp as well?
>
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as v4gr at rcn.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Feb 16 17:32:40 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:32:40 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Some classification Questions
References: <47B76A31.6060000@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <006801c870fc$9c538d50$6501a8c0@S>

Mayf and odd others--
Nothing in the class rules is absolute. All of that stuff is more or less
fuzzy.  (I'm thinking windshield posts on roadsters) Push a limit and you
force a decision whether you can or can't.  Just like our US judicial
system.  If they rule against you go find enough like minded racers (or do
we have to call them "timetrialers" now?) and petition for a new class or
class boundary.
I think we're in a era of new motor vehicle propulsion technologies.  How to
split them up for practical land speed competition classes remains to be
seen.  SCTA/BNI is pretty much set on wheel driven; so other creative
variants that we see primarily in aircraft drop out.  But with respect to
other areas of propulsion there seem to me to be some logical divisions.  We
already work with types of energy sources; gasoline, other liquid fuels,
compressed gasses, batteries.  Energy conversion methods include not only
internal combustion types; otto, diesel, but also steam, gas turbines and
straight electric motors.  Gas-electric or diesel electric (or
turbine-electric or whatever) are just variations on the energy conversion.
With respect to size classes we generally like to use some measurable
physical characteristic like displacement that is directly related to how
much energy can be converted per second, minute or whatver.  (this gets a
bit fuzzy with electric vehicles; not yet a real problem).  We can even deal
with hybrids of any type once we accept the idea that a hybrid is really a
combination of several conversion and several energy storage methods and
figure out how to simply classify and control whatever class breaks make
sense.  I think the big issue to handle is the storage of energy especially
at intermediate stages of conversion.  Right now that's not an issue.
Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 2:56 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Some classification Questions (non turban, religion or
political related)


> ..... odd thoughts came to me......
>You know they are odd because they are mine, lol... All have to
> do with car propulsion method classifications..
> for instance, my car is a BFMS with a C motor (barely). How would the
> classification go if I wanted to stick a small diesel in it? No, not
> planning on it, just curious. Lets say the diesel was 2.5 L displacement
> if that matters...
> and, what if I wanted to convert it to electrical propulsion? Would that
> be a ??? ........

From bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Sat Feb 16 17:38:00 2008
From: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 00:38:00 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban
Message-ID: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>

I want helmet laws because they reduce the numbers of brain-damaged crash victims that become the burden of the taxpayers.
I think if our Canadian friend wrapped his using resin-soaked fiberglas cloth he'd be all set.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Feb 16 17:54:04 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 17:54:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Some classification Questions (non turban,
 religion or  political related)
References: <47B76A31.6060000@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <019001c870ff$9e11fed0$6501a8c0@Glens>

Lets See.........Mayf has to much time on his hands class. I couldn't find a 
C/Modified Mayf mobile in the rule book.

Could be to much lint in the navel to find out what you don't need to know. 
Or Ask Dan w.
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 3:56 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Some classification Questions (non turban, religion or 
political related)


> Was just sitting here pondering my navel and and some odd thoughts came
> to me. You know they are odd because they are mine, lol... All have to
> do with car propulsion method classifications..
>
> for instance, my car is a BFMS with a C motor (barely). How would the
> classification go if I wanted to stick a small diesel in it? No, not
> planning on it, just curious. Lets say the diesel was 2.5 L displacement
> if that matters...
>
> and, what if I wanted to convert it to electrical propulsion? Would that
> be a ??? Example?  Assume the car weighs 2500 lbs if that matters.
>
>
> similarly, steam?
> I know Ford run the hydrogen car but it was really electrically
> motivated. The hydrogen only provided the electricity so what class was
> that car in. To my dim thinking that should have been some kind of
> electrical designation.
>
> I know there is a spot in the rules that say someting like  a
> supplemental engine has to contribute to the propulsion of a car before
> it is considered for cubic inch displacement...but wouldn't a gas or
> diesel generator drivng electric propulsion be directly connected
> especially if no batterys are involved anywhere?
>
> Comments? Thoughts?
>
> lets see if we can scare up a meaningful discussion...
>
> oh one final odd one... and it has to do with elec drives. HP is hp when
> it comes to over coming the aero issues and rolling resistance. So it it
> takes 500 hp to go 200 mph wouldn't the elec motor also have to produce
> that same amount of power? And if running off a generator in the car
> wouldn't that also have to have very significant hp as well?
>
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Feb 16 18:18:48 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 17:18:48 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban
References: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <007701c87103$102415a0$6501a8c0@S>

I think an excellent project for a graduate engineering student would be to
design an acceptably functioning head protection gear for turban wearing
Sikhs.  I don't think it would need to meet the standards of our SA2005
helmets.  Like look at the "beanies" most states allow the Harley guys to
wear.  I stongly suspect that the shock absorbing capabilities of their
turbans may be a lot more than people realize and may even be adequete as
they are put together with nothing added.  This would be a truly useful
project to explore at the scientific level with a combination or shock
testing and structural vibration analysis.  (Yup, graduate student labor is
cheap and can provide useful information atlow cost.)  You'd be surprised at
how many engineering students are looking for interesting and useful project
or thesis subjects so they can complete their degree requirements doing
something that produces more than just a paper that no one but their thesis
advisor will ever read.  Think about that next time you have a question to
do with your racer that you can't begin to find an answer for.
By the way, these Sikh folks, if you don't know them well, are a respected
component of the immigrant community in the CA Bay area.  From my experience
they are a cut or maybe even two above most of the other immigrant groups
around here.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bobbyhotrods at comcast.net>
To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban


> I want helmet laws because they reduce the numbers of brain-damaged crash
victims that become the burden of the taxpayers.
> I think if our Canadian friend wrapped his using resin-soaked fiberglas
cloth he'd be all set.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as 23.weldon at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From nt788 at comcast.net  Sun Feb 17 09:52:19 2008
From: nt788 at comcast.net (nt788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:52:19 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two
Message-ID: <021720081652.3234.47B86643000A8F3500000CA22212059214C8C8C99B02@comcast.net>

Don't forget the helmet, seat belt and catalytic converter lobby! jack

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Rich Fox" <v4gr at rcn.com> 

> If the guy doesn't want to wear a helmet, it's his head, I don't care. How 
> much of your person will you give up to the lawmakers just because they are 
> the lawmakers. Who will be threatened if I decide to ride without a helmet? 
> Or run with scissors? Or drive without seatbelts? RF 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Savage" 
> To: "Dave Dahlgren" 
> Cc: "Land Speed Digest" 
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 12:42 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban, part two 
> 
> 
> > Thats Diversity in action. France has supported Diversity 
> > for Islamic immigrants and now has areas in their cities 
> > where the Police refuse to go. God help Tourists. 
> > Then there's the Divorce Ceremony for the fundamentalists. 
> > Take wife out side, throw gasoline and a match on her. Oh, 
> > and stuff cotton in your ears. 
> > 
> > My, how religious. 
> > 
> > Doing insane things is not a right in a modern society. 
> > 
> > Bryan 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Feb 17 10:40:30 2008
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:40:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban
In-Reply-To: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
References: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20080217104030.r0er3ario8kwgcc0@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Exactly - the "freedom" riders should be able to ride "free" just as
they please.  Of course, the folks that live within the rules and help
economize on resources should get "line privileges" in the ER while
the "freedom riders" wait in the parking lot.

Hard and ugly? perhaps.  Tell you wife or mother that while she is
waiting for a doctor in the ER that some "freedom rider" needs the
staff more than she does.

Holy crap, I think I hate the person I have become . . . . but I was
raised to believe I could have what I wanted and do what I wanted IFF
(if and only if) I was willing to suffer the consequences.

"son, do you want a new car? - get a job and buy what you want."







Quoting bobbyhotrods at comcast.net:

> I want helmet laws because they reduce the numbers of brain-damaged
> crash victims that become the burden of the taxpayers.
> I think if our Canadian friend wrapped his using resin-soaked
> fiberglas cloth he'd be all set.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun Feb 17 11:07:46 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:07:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban
In-Reply-To: <007701c87103$102415a0$6501a8c0@S>
References: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
	<007701c87103$102415a0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <01b401c8718f$ffdf37a0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

So, Ed-- to sum up this proposed turban research, "Sikh and ye shall find?"
:)

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Ed Weldon
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:19 PM
To: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net; Landspeed
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban

I think an excellent project for a graduate engineering student would be to
design an acceptably functioning head protection gear for turban wearing
Sikhs.  I don't think it would need to meet the standards of our SA2005
helmets.  Like look at the "beanies" most states allow the Harley guys to
wear.  I stongly suspect that the shock absorbing capabilities of their
turbans may be a lot more than people realize and may even be adequete as
they are put together with nothing added.  This would be a truly useful
project to explore at the scientific level with a combination or shock
testing and structural vibration analysis.  (Yup, graduate student labor is
cheap and can provide useful information atlow cost.)  You'd be surprised at
how many engineering students are looking for interesting and useful project
or thesis subjects so they can complete their degree requirements doing
something that produces more than just a paper that no one but their thesis
advisor will ever read.  Think about that next time you have a question to
do with your racer that you can't begin to find an answer for.
By the way, these Sikh folks, if you don't know them well, are a respected
component of the immigrant community in the CA Bay area.  From my experience
they are a cut or maybe even two above most of the other immigrant groups
around here.
Ed Weldon

From dlodom at charter.net  Sun Feb 17 11:33:51 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:33:51 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] OT  Daytona
Message-ID: <47B87E0F.6050806@charter.net>

The Daytona ( The Great American Race) 500 is about to start. Did anyone 
notice there are more Toyotas in the race than Fords? The pole is a 
Toyota. 3 of the top 10 are Toyotas. The fastest Ford is 11th and there 
are only 3 Fords in the top 25. I'm not saying its good or bad but it 
sure is different.

16 Chevys - 11 Dodges - 9 Toyotas - 7 Fords.

Doug Odom in big ditch

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Feb 17 11:43:51 2008
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:43:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT  Daytona
In-Reply-To: <47B87E0F.6050806@charter.net>
References: <47B87E0F.6050806@charter.net>
Message-ID: <20080217114351.enzs08xrks44w4wo@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Yeah, pretty depressing.  I'm not near "into it" enough to know why
(sponsorship/rules/aero) some don't make it and others do.

Not near enough strong Fords, and the mopars don't seem to have a
package that works (aero or what?)

The Jeff/Hoonior (jr.) team seems strong (dang chebbies).

Maybe I should have kept my Toyota?



David, blue oval deflicted to the end . . .



Quoting DougOdom <dlodom at charter.net>:

> The Daytona ( The Great American Race) 500 is about to start. Did anyone
> notice there are more Toyotas in the race than Fords? The pole is a
> Toyota. 3 of the top 10 are Toyotas. The fastest Ford is 11th and there
> are only 3 Fords in the top 25. I'm not saying its good or bad but it
> sure is different.
>
> 16 Chevys - 11 Dodges - 9 Toyotas - 7 Fords.
>
> Doug Odom in big ditch
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sun Feb 17 12:13:47 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:13:47 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban
In-Reply-To: <20080217104030.r0er3ario8kwgcc0@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
References: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
	<20080217104030.r0er3ario8kwgcc0@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
Message-ID: <24BAFC8A94064D41B1374178933F9E66@DaveSatellite>

I dated a girl for a while recently that was an ER nurse.. 90% of the 
patients in a very well to do neighborhood..think high 6 figure income 
normal.. are either illegal aliens or people seeking drugs from all walks of 
life the last 10% are there because they need to be. So the next time you 
really need to be in an ER look around and it might just scare you.. They 
end up being politically correct telling someone politely so there are no 
lawsuits they cannot self prescribe drugs and can not have them while in 
another room some one is coding and on the edge of death..Sad but very 
true.. I have held this girl in my arms while she cried over the absurdity 
of it all... So while I am not politically correct as well in comes from 
dealing with the consequences in real life as opposed to the so called 
correct or right thing to do.. I have personally come to the conclusion that 
the politically correct is the  same as not being able to see things as they 
are and calling them out as well for how silly and out of bounds they are..
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <adin at frontier.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban


> Exactly - the "freedom" riders should be able to ride "free" just as
> they please.  Of course, the folks that live within the rules and help
> economize on resources should get "line privileges" in the ER while
> the "freedom riders" wait in the parking lot.
>
> Hard and ugly? perhaps.  Tell you wife or mother that while she is
> waiting for a doctor in the ER that some "freedom rider" needs the
> staff more than she does.
>
> Holy crap, I think I hate the person I have become . . . . but I was
> raised to believe I could have what I wanted and do what I wanted IFF
> (if and only if) I was willing to suffer the consequences.
>
> "son, do you want a new car? - get a job and buy what you want."

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sun Feb 17 13:16:02 2008
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:16:02 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban
References: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net><20080217104030.r0er3ario8kwgcc0@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
	<24BAFC8A94064D41B1374178933F9E66@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <001501c871a1$eb588720$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

If you want to see people that are brain damaged go to the VA Hospital, or a 
State Mental Institution. Lots of brain Damaged people there. But they 
didn't do it on a Motorcycle they did it on a bar stool. I bet the ratio is 
100 to 1 or better. Proabition was tried in the US but it was a money loser 
for the State and so failed. Seatbelt/Helmet laws on the other hand are a 
revenue stream. Here in California only the very worst cases are still in 
State care, the rest are sleeping in bushes or dead. Their freedom to drink 
well preserved.  RF 

From jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Feb 17 16:26:36 2008
From: jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net (John Thornton)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:26:36 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
In-Reply-To: <47B774D2.3050604@wildblue.net>
References: <006701c86f0f$4cdddc60$0300a8c0@brightstar>
	<47B48F5D.20303@sbcglobal.net>
	<767CEF24-A555-43D0-B608-B2AFEE2BF8C3@gmail.com>
	<47B72974.90102@sbcglobal.net> <47B774D2.3050604@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <47B8C2AC.40405@sbcglobal.net>

Both the valve design and piston crown we're experimenting with would be 
incompatible with HCCI. The variable valve event aspect may or may not 
be compatible.
The intake valves and piston are integral parts of our patentable work 
so we're certainly wedded to them.
Our lean burn design is attendant upon a specific flame front 
propagation that results from the unique swirl and tumble 
characteristics of our intake system and the infinitely variable lift, 
duration, and timing (within a specific crank angle range) along with 
the shape of the piston crown and it's attendant squish area.
HCCI seems like a more expensive proposition to develop than what we're 
working on.
Portions of our system are able to be used on an existing engine head 
and block combination but a mildly redesigned head would yield more gains.

John Thornton



Bryan Savage wrote:
> John,
>
> Have you looked at HCCI technology? Some interesting possibilities.
>
> Bryan
>
>
>> Generating electricity on-board makes more sense right now. More so 
>> than storing energy anyway.
>> Partial load throttle response is a problem for current lean burn 
>> technology but that isn't an issue for a motor used only to generate 
>> electricity.
>> We can use a lean burn motor only to generate electricity and 
>> drastically improve economy while not sacrificing performance.
>> It is possible to get ~50 to ~60 mpg and get performance comparable 
>> to a 500 bhp motor. We have the technology to do this right now and 
>> at a reasonable cost.
>> I'm working on a small lean burn motor incorporating infinitely 
>> variable valve lift, timing, and duration towards this end right now. 
>> Since none of this is yet patented I can't really go into any detail 
>> but it is all very "doable" as they say.
>>
>> John Thornton

From jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Feb 17 17:36:00 2008
From: jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net (John Thornton)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:36:00 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] End of the High performance car???
In-Reply-To: <47B8C2AC.40405@sbcglobal.net>
References: <006701c86f0f$4cdddc60$0300a8c0@brightstar>
	<47B48F5D.20303@sbcglobal.net>
	<767CEF24-A555-43D0-B608-B2AFEE2BF8C3@gmail.com>
	<47B72974.90102@sbcglobal.net> <47B774D2.3050604@wildblue.net>
	<47B8C2AC.40405@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <47B8D2F0.5030105@sbcglobal.net>

John Thornton wrote:

Sorry, I intended that to be off-list to Bryan.

From Sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Feb 17 17:49:35 2008
From: Sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:49:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non LSR  OT  Daytona
In-Reply-To: <47B87E0F.6050806@charter.net>
References: <47B87E0F.6050806@charter.net>
Message-ID: <A658DABD86D448B9B50AED5F6E1CD4BB@LindaPC>

---that implemented the ABT RULE---anyone but Toyota!!!!!!!!!---yeah Neuman 
and Bush!!!!!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DougOdom" <dlodom at charter.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 11:33 AM
Subject: [ 

From Sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Feb 17 17:54:49 2008
From: Sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:54:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr---Tougher Turban
In-Reply-To: <24BAFC8A94064D41B1374178933F9E66@DaveSatellite>
References: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net><20080217104030.r0er3ario8kwgcc0@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
	<24BAFC8A94064D41B1374178933F9E66@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <E150DECD586548FD91061C540D2BCCDE@LindaPC>

Dave you are correct----if we don't "Posse Up" as individual citizens---we 
are gone as a country!!!!!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: <adin at frontier.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban


 I have personally come to the conclusion that
> the politically correct is the  same as not being able to see things as 
> they
> are and calling them out as well for how silly and out of bounds they 
> are..
> Dave
> >> Hard and ugly? perhaps.  Tell you wife or mother that while she is
>> waiting for a doctor in the ER that some "freedom rider" needs the
>> staff more than she does.
>>
>> Holy crap, I think I hate the person I have become . . . . but I was
>> raised to believe I could have what I wanted and do what I wanted IFF
>> (if and only if) I was willing to suffer the consequences.

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Feb 17 20:30:45 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:30:45 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Some classification Questions (non turban,
 religion or  political related)
In-Reply-To: <001201c870fc$563543e0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
References: <47B76A31.6060000@mayfco.com>
	<001201c870fc$563543e0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <47B8FBE5.6070100@wildblue.net>

Excellent idea Rich!

What class would a 6 inch steam turbine run in?

Bryan



Rich Fox wrote:
> As I remember there is a steam engine class with a 145 mph record. The 
> Diesel/Gas/Nitro Electric question was asked and someone said the class 
> would still be decided by the cubic inches of the engine driving the 
> generator. What would be cooler than that would be a giant spring that would 
> take two Electromotive diesels to wind, installed in your Sunbeam. Point it 
> at Floating Mt. and let it go. Have to have another one waiting for the 
> return run.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 2:56 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Some classification Questions (non turban, religion or 
> political related)

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Feb 17 20:52:19 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:52:19 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban
In-Reply-To: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
References: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47B900F3.3040501@wildblue.net>

I would outlaw all helmets!!!

I'm 70 years old and brain dead, 16 to 24 year olds are perfect organ 
donors.
Us old folks need those organs. We can obviously put them to better use than
the original owner.

Good OLD Bryan



bobbyhotrods at comcast.net wrote:
> I want helmet laws because they reduce the numbers of brain-damaged crash victims that become the burden of the taxpayers.
> I think if our Canadian friend wrapped his using resin-soaked fiberglas cloth he'd be all set.
> _______________________________________________

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Feb 18 07:20:34 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:20:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: [Non Land-speed] Tougher Turban
References: <4194AD33-C971-474B-BA64-8643D1620818@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <75C6F075-96EA-4068-80F3-CF135124F6B6@comcast.net>

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net>
> Date: February 17, 2008 12:45:21 PM MST
> To: Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net>, LAND SPEED LIST <land-speed at autox.team.net 
> >
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban
>
> My daughter would agree with Dave's friend.  She is the Saturday/ 
> Sunday
> ER receptionist in the inner city hospital in Salt Lake while  
> finishing college
> with the intent of becoming a nurse.  She comes home simply furious at
> the people who have no health insurance and use the ER as their  
> private
> physician.  One regular drug seeker who has a $30,000 bill at the  
> hospital
> is in almost every weekend with a different "serious" pain.  They  
> can't legally
> cut her off.  People have learned that they can go to this hospital,  
> rather
> than two other hospitals a mile and four miles away, because of the  
> legal
> hassle should they be refused service for things that would keep them
> waiting at a regular doctor's office.  Their serial demands for  
> immediate
> attention leave her furious at the "entitled" attitude.  "This is an  
> emergency
> room and my problem is an emergency" is a common complaint.  The
> good part of this is the hospital is not a first line trauma  
> hospital so the
> critical cases go to the other hospitals.  The bad thing is they are  
> rarely
> able to collect a co-pay or normal emergency room charges.  It's a for
> profit corporation that owns the hospital and the bulk of the write  
> offs
> are reimbursed by the government in some various ways.
>
> Then there's the drunk, brought in off the street by ambulance, under
> police custody.  He was put in a room without being effectively  
> searched
> and while being given oxygen, lit a cigarette.  That specific room  
> was out
> of service for longer than it took for him to be brought in again by  
> the police,
> found passed out on the streets . . . drunk again.
> Wes

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Feb 18 08:31:36 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:31:36 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban,   part  three
References: <W480819238300091203204902@webmail12>
Message-ID: <47B9A4D8.000019.02820@D3DP98F1>

Being one that has ridden motorcycles with my hair (not much hair anymore)
blowing in the wind, I can sympathize with the non-helmet crowd and
non-governmental interference in our lives. However, that being said, there
are many areas of our life where we don't seem to be intelligent enough to
care for our selves. Plus, as a society, we have invited government to be
responsible for our safety and the taxpayer to pick up the tab for
individual stupidity. Talk to a nurse in emergency and you get a very
negative view of the results of motorcycle mishaps.

I think the thing that has driven helmet and seatbelt laws is a fact that,
in an accident,  there is less trauma to the body if these safety devices
are employed. And quite often someone else has to pay the hospital bill.

I know we wouldn't think of running our race vehicles without these safety
measures. It wasn't always this way, however. If we know to do better,
shouldn't we? Without government regulations, our cars would likely be
produced with plate glass windows. In recent years, a foot on the brake is
required to put the shift selector from neutral into gear because so many
drivers couldn't figure that one out for themselves. Sometimes we need a
push-start to do what is right.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_pets_cat1_en.gif]

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Mon Feb 18 08:34:33 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:34:33 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr---Tougher Turban
In-Reply-To: <E150DECD586548FD91061C540D2BCCDE@LindaPC>
References: <021720080038.11743.47B781E8000125F300002DDF22135753339C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
	<20080217104030.r0er3ario8kwgcc0@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
	<24BAFC8A94064D41B1374178933F9E66@DaveSatellite>
	<E150DECD586548FD91061C540D2BCCDE@LindaPC>
Message-ID: <20080218153431.8305418763D@autox.team.net>

Hear, hear!
Skip




At 04:54 PM 2/17/2008, Sparky wrote:
>Dave you are correct----if we don't "Posse Up" as individual citizens---we
>are gone as a country!!!!!!!
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
>To: <adin at frontier.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:13 PM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban
>
>
>  I have personally come to the conclusion that
> > the politically correct is the  same as not being able to see things as
> > they
> > are and calling them out as well for how silly and out of bounds they
> > are..
> > Dave
> > >> Hard and ugly? perhaps.  Tell you wife or mother that while she is
> >> waiting for a doctor in the ER that some "freedom rider" needs the
> >> staff more than she does.
> >>
> >> Holy crap, I think I hate the person I have become . . . . but I was
> >> raised to believe I could have what I wanted and do what I wanted IFF
> >> (if and only if) I was willing to suffer the consequences.

From jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Feb 18 10:40:14 2008
From: jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net (John Thornton)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:40:14 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban,   part  three
In-Reply-To: <47B9A4D8.000019.02820@D3DP98F1>
References: <W480819238300091203204902@webmail12>
	<47B9A4D8.000019.02820@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <47B9C2FE.9000106@sbcglobal.net>

Tom Bryant wrote:
> Being one that has ridden motorcycles with my hair (not much hair anymore)
> blowing in the wind, I can sympathize with the non-helmet crowd and
> non-governmental interference in our lives. However, that being said, there
> are many areas of our life where we don't seem to be intelligent enough to
> care for our selves. Plus, as a society, we have invited government to be
> responsible for our safety and the taxpayer to pick up the tab for
> individual stupidity. Talk to a nurse in emergency and you get a very
> negative view of the results of motorcycle mishaps.
>
> I think the thing that has driven helmet and seatbelt laws is a fact that,
> in an accident,  there is less trauma to the body if these safety devices
> are employed. And quite often someone else has to pay the hospital bill.
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

As an ex-paramedic my opinion is if you want to ride sans helmet go for 
it but don't whine if you're involved in an accident and you're 
prioritized last since paramedics can then take that as a sign that you 
care very little about your own well being. If first responders are 
exempt from helping in order of need those who wish to behave 
irresponsibly and the emergency personnel in the hospital are also 
allowed to prioritize the helmetless last over everyone else then I 
don't' see the problem.
I've scrapped up kids who were too cool to wear their seatbelts and 
motorcyclists who were too cool to wear a helmet more times than I care 
to recall. If you want to place your reckless individuality over the 
public good be my guest but when society reciprocates just remember your 
pressing need for rugged individualism and take care of your own injuries.
In the end the public has the right to legislate the publicly built 
roadways. You can ride sans a helmet on your own property but on the 
publics roads the publics majority will is law. There are lots of 
restrictions on what one can and cannot do in the public sphere. Safety 
equipment falls squarely within the purview of motor vehicle legislation.
Do any of you oppose the mandatory use of helmets in racing or record 
breaking? Why is this any different? Buy enough property to ride an 
off-road bike around on without a helmet if you need the wind in your 
hair that much.

John Thornton

From atrav at copper.net  Mon Feb 18 13:52:55 2008
From: atrav at copper.net (atrav)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:52:55 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban,   part  three
In-Reply-To: <47B9C2FE.9000106@sbcglobal.net>
References: <W480819238300091203204902@webmail12>
	<47B9A4D8.000019.02820@D3DP98F1> <47B9C2FE.9000106@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <47B9F027.9040509@copper.net>

John Thornton wrote:
> As an ex-paramedic my opinion is if you want to ride sans helmet go for 
> it but don't whine if you're involved in an accident and you're 
> prioritized last since paramedics can then take that as a sign that you 
> care very little about your own well being. 

Don't assume a guy without a helmet cares little, FWIW I've had two 
helmets stolen over the decades I've been a rider, both giving an 'in 
the wind' ride home.
Plus, if people were dumb enough to leave their helmet locked to their 
bike at the parking lot across from St. Andrews Hall in Detroit, there'd 
be a good chance someone would piss in it. ;o)
Frankly, I'd say that if motorcyclists are going to get screwed in the 
ER, then at least put the SUV cell phone talkers last in line.

And that is worth all of the $0.02.

-Aron-

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Mon Feb 18 14:29:00 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:29:00 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban,   part  three
In-Reply-To: <47B9A4D8.000019.02820@D3DP98F1>
References: <W480819238300091203204902@webmail12>
	<47B9A4D8.000019.02820@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <47B9F89C.4090806@wildblue.net>

So very true Tom.

And this "And quite often someone else has to pay the hospital bill.*"*
In other countries that's called "Universal Health Care"
I started riding the streets of L.A. in 1962. I figured out in a few
days what I had to do to stay alive, pretend that I was invisible. I
assumed it would be my fault if I let a car get to me.
I'm between bikes right now and if I get another one, it will have
3 wheels. At my age, I wouldn't trust myself on a 2 wheeler!

I hate the current concept of "No Fault Life"'

Bryan






Tom Bryant wrote:
> Being one that has ridden motorcycles with my hair (not much hair 
> anymore) blowing in the wind, I can sympathize with the non-helmet 
> crowd and non-governmental interference in our lives. However, that 
> being said, there are many areas of our life where we don't seem to be 
> intelligent enough to care for our selves. Plus, as a society, we have 
> invited government to be responsible for our safety and the taxpayer 
> to pick up the tab for individual stupidity. Talk to a nurse in 
> emergency and you get a very negative view of the results of 
> motorcycle mishaps.
>  
> I think the thing that has driven helmet and seatbelt laws is a fact 
> that, in an accident,  there is less trauma to the body if these 
> safety devices are employed. And quite often someone else has to pay 
> the hospital bill.
>  
> I know we wouldn't think of running our race vehicles without these 
> safety measures. It wasn't always this way, however. If we know to do 
> better, shouldn't we? Without government regulations, our cars would 
> likely be produced with plate glass windows. In recent years, a foot 
> on the brake is required to put the shift selector from neutral into 
> gear because so many drivers couldn't figure that one out for 
> themselves. Sometimes we need a push-start to do what is right.
>  
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>  
>  
>
> 	
> 	
>
> FREE Animations for your email - By IncrediMail! Click Here! 
> <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=101218&rui=94775040>

From ed at vetteracing.com  Mon Feb 18 19:17:27 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 02:17:27 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Faster towing!?
Message-ID: <W8733626630298341203387447@webmail30>

Utah Considers Joining 80 MPH Speed Limit Club

80MPH limit unveiled in Texas. Texas may lose the distinction of being the
state with the highest legal speed limit in the US. With the blessing of the
Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT), state Representative James A
Dunnigan (R-Taylorsville) introduced legislation that would test the effects
of higher speed limits on a stretch of Interstate 15.

The state House Business and Labor Committee unanimously approved Dunnigan's
bill on Wednesday.

"The engineering studies that we conduct would determine what the appropriate
speed would be," a UDOT Government Affairs Director Linda Hull explained on
Wednesday. "Looking at it from the outside we think it might be eighty miles
per hour."

The test would consider the 85th percentile speed -- the actual speed at which
the majority of traffic is moving in safety -- along with ten other factors to
determine whether to increase the I-15 limit from 75 MPH to 80 or more. UDOT
would report back on the safety effects of the change to legislators who would
determine whether limits could be raised elsewhere in the state.

A similar bill that would have raised the speed limit to 80 MPH last year was
amended before becoming law. Instead of setting a top speed of 80, that law
mandates that all speed limits be set according to engineering studies.
The same law also requires slower vehicles in the far left-hand lane to yield
when a faster vehicle approaches from behind. Texas officials approved an 80
MPH limit on I-10 and I-20 in 2006

Ed Van Scoy
#128 B/GT Corvette
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon Feb 18 19:32:30 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:32:30 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban,   part  three
In-Reply-To: <mailman.19.1203361202.4946.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <000001c8729f$ae213ec0$6501a8c0@dim8100>

There are two laws. You can break one but not the other. Darwinism just
takes a little longer.  -Elon

From: John Thornton: . . . if you want to ride sans helmet go for it but
don't whine if you're involved in an accident and you're prioritized last. .
.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Feb 18 19:34:44 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:34:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Faster towing!?
References: <W8733626630298341203387447@webmail30>
Message-ID: <00ca01c872a0$02fd2ee0$6501a8c0@Glens>

I guess we will have to slow down when we go thru Cedar City.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com>
To: "Land-Speed List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:17 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Faster towing!?


> Utah Considers Joining 80 MPH Speed Limit Club
>
> 80MPH limit unveiled in Texas. Texas may lose the distinction of being the
> state with the highest legal speed limit in the US. With the blessing of 
> the
> Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT), state Representative James A
> Dunnigan (R-Taylorsville) introduced legislation that would test the 
> effects
> of higher speed limits on a stretch of Interstate 15.
>
> The state House Business and Labor Committee unanimously approved 
> Dunnigan's
> bill on Wednesday.
>
> "The engineering studies that we conduct would determine what the 
> appropriate
> speed would be," a UDOT Government Affairs Director Linda Hull explained 
> on
> Wednesday. "Looking at it from the outside we think it might be eighty 
> miles
> per hour."
>
> The test would consider the 85th percentile speed -- the actual speed at 
> which
> the majority of traffic is moving in safety -- along with ten other 
> factors to
> determine whether to increase the I-15 limit from 75 MPH to 80 or more. 
> UDOT
> would report back on the safety effects of the change to legislators who 
> would
> determine whether limits could be raised elsewhere in the state.
>
> A similar bill that would have raised the speed limit to 80 MPH last year 
> was
> amended before becoming law. Instead of setting a top speed of 80, that 
> law
> mandates that all speed limits be set according to engineering studies.
> The same law also requires slower vehicles in the far left-hand lane to 
> yield
> when a faster vehicle approaches from behind. Texas officials approved an 
> 80
> MPH limit on I-10 and I-20 in 2006
>
> Ed Van Scoy
> #128 B/GT Corvette
> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ed at vetteracing.com  Mon Feb 18 19:43:06 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 02:43:06 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Faster towing!?
Message-ID: <W889432671825901203388986@webmail34>

Or.... At least the sppeding tickets won't be so bad ;-)
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 07:34 PM
To: 'Ed Van Scoy', 'Land-Speed List'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Faster towing!?

I guess we will have to slow down when we go thru Cedar City.Glen-----
Original Message ----- From: "Ed Van Scoy" To: "Land-Speed List" Sent: Monday,
February 18, 2008 7:17 PMSubject: [Land-speed] Faster towing!?> Utah Considers
Joining 80 MPH Speed Limit Club>> 80MPH limit unveiled in Texas. Texas may
lose the distinction of being the> state with the highest legal speed limit in
the US. With the blessing of > the> Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT),
state Representative James A> Dunnigan (R-Taylorsville) introduced legislation
that would test the > effects> of higher speed limits on a stretch of
Interstate 15.>> The state House Business and Labor Committee unanimously
approved > Dunnigan's> bill on Wednesday.>> "The engineering studies that we
conduct would determine what the > appropriate> speed would be," a UDOT
Government Affairs Director Linda Hull explained > on> Wednesday. "Looking at
it from the outside we think it might be eighty > miles> per hour.">> The test
would consider the 85th percentile speed -- the actual speed at > which> the
majority of traffic is moving in safety -- along with ten other > factors to>
determine whether to increase the I-15 limit from 75 MPH to 80 or more. >
UDOT> would report back on the safety effects of the change to legislators who
> would> determine whether limits could be raised elsewhere in the state.>> A
similar bill that would have raised the speed limit to 80 MPH last year > was>
amended before becoming law. Instead of setting a top speed of 80, that > law>
mandates that all speed limits be set according to engineering studies.> The
same law also requires slower vehicles in the far left-hand lane to > yield>
when a faster vehicle approaches from behind. Texas officials approved an >
80> MPH limit on I-10 and I-20 in 2006>> Ed Van Scoy> #128 B/GT Corvette>
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Feb 18 20:21:16 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:21:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Faster towing!?
In-Reply-To: <W889432671825901203388986@webmail34>
References: <W889432671825901203388986@webmail34>
Message-ID: <659DDAD1-B53D-4B4F-B4F8-89EF4FBE92DF@comcast.net>

The cops around Fillmore, UT  have what they call the "Utah 500",  
that's the number of speeding tickets they give to BYU students going  
home after school lets out in April.  Probably happens around the  
Christmas vacation time too.  All those California kids heading home  
to go surfing or anxious for an In-N-Out burger fix. This speed limit  
change could put a dent in the city treasury if it passes.

Wes

On Feb 18, 2008, at 7:43 PM, Ed Van Scoy wrote:

> Or.... At least the sppeding tickets won't be so bad ;-)
> Ed
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 07:34 PM
> To: 'Ed Van Scoy', 'Land-Speed List'
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Faster towing!?
>
> I guess we will have to slow down when we go thru Cedar City.Glen-----
> Original Message ----- From: "Ed Van Scoy" To: "Land-Speed List"  
> Sent: Monday,
> February 18, 2008 7:17 PMSubject: [Land-speed] Faster towing!?> Utah  
> Considers
> Joining 80 MPH Speed Limit Club>> 80MPH limit unveiled in Texas.  
> Texas may
> lose the distinction of being the> state with the highest legal  
> speed limit in
> the US. With the blessing of > the> Utah Department of  
> Transportation (UDOT),
> state Representative James A> Dunnigan (R-Taylorsville) introduced  
> legislation
> that would test the > effects> of higher speed limits on a stretch of
> Interstate 15.>> The state House Business and Labor Committee  
> unanimously
> approved > Dunnigan's> bill on Wednesday.>> "The engineering studies  
> that we
> conduct would determine what the > appropriate> speed would be," a  
> UDOT
> Government Affairs Director Linda Hull explained > on> Wednesday.  
> "Looking at
> it from the outside we think it might be eighty > miles> per  
> hour.">> The test
> would consider the 85th percentile speed -- the actual speed at >  
> which> the
> majority of traffic is moving in safety -- along with ten other >  
> factors to>
> determine whether to increase the I-15 limit from 75 MPH to 80 or  
> more. >
> UDOT> would report back on the safety effects of the change to  
> legislators who
>> would> determine whether limits could be raised elsewhere in the  
>> state.>> A
> similar bill that would have raised the speed limit to 80 MPH last  
> year > was>
> amended before becoming law. Instead of setting a top speed of 80,  
> that > law>
> mandates that all speed limits be set according to engineering  
> studies.> The
> same law also requires slower vehicles in the far left-hand lane to  
> > yield>
> when a faster vehicle approaches from behind. Texas officials  
> approved an >
> 80> MPH limit on I-10 and I-20 in 2006>> Ed Van Scoy> #128 B/GT  
> Corvette>
> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 19 20:06:53 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:06:53 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban,   part  three
In-Reply-To: <47B9A4D8.000019.02820@D3DP98F1>
References: <W480819238300091203204902@webmail12>
	<47B9A4D8.000019.02820@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W16FDFEF73FB37F3C6FEC9AD9230@phx.gbl>

As always, the sage advise of one of esteemed friends clears the airand states
(what should be) the obvious,...


   thanks Tom,   I trust you are well ?


   c heers,  'Dirt  Track  Doug'
    -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
    -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
    -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
    -105 miles south of   'the Syracuse Mile' ...
    -262 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
    -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats



Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:31:36 -0800
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com
To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com; v4gr at rcn.com; b.a.savage at wildblue.net;
ddahlgren at snet.net; ed at vetteracing.com
CC: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non-LSR turban,   part  three















Being one that has ridden motorcycles with my hair (not much hair anymore)
blowing in the wind, I can sympathize with the non-helmet crowd and
non-governmental interference in our lives. However, that being said, there
are many areas of our life where we don't seem to be intelligent enough to
care for our selves. Plus, as a society, we have invited government to be
responsible for our safety and the taxpayer to pick up the tab for individual
stupidity. Talk to a nurse in emergency and you get a very negative view of
the results of motorcycle mishaps.

I think the thing that has driven helmet and seatbelt laws is a fact that, in
an accident,  there is less trauma to the body if these safety devices are
employed. And quite often someone else has to pay the hospital bill.

I know we wouldn't think of running our race vehicles without these safety
measures. It wasn't always this way, however. If we know to do better,
shouldn't we? Without government regulations, our cars would likely be
produced with plate glass windows. In recent years, a foot on the brake is
required to put the shift selector from neutral into gear because so many
drivers couldn't figure that one out for themselves. Sometimes we need a
push-start to do what is right.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC










_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your
"fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif]

From NT788 at comcast.net  Wed Feb 20 10:13:23 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:13:23 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr---Tougher Turban
Message-ID: <022020081713.14320.47BC5FB3000BC644000037F02216538496C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Ron Paul would let us do it!

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Sparky" <Sparky.2211 at cox.net> 

> Dave you are correct----if we don't "Posse Up" as individual citizens---we 
> are gone as a country!!!!!!! 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave Dahlgren" 
> To: ; 
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:13 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban 
> 
> 
> I have personally come to the conclusion that 
> > the politically correct is the same as not being able to see things as 
> > they 
> > are and calling them out as well for how silly and out of bounds they 
> > are.. 
> > Dave 
> > >> Hard and ugly? perhaps. Tell you wife or mother that while she is 
> >> waiting for a doctor in the ER that some "freedom rider" needs the 
> >> staff more than she does. 
> >> 
> >> Holy crap, I think I hate the person I have become . . . . but I was 
> >> raised to believe I could have what I wanted and do what I wanted IFF 
> >> (if and only if) I was willing to suffer the consequences. 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From NT788 at comcast.net  Wed Feb 20 11:16:05 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:16:05 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Tougher Turban
Message-ID: <022020081816.27891.47BC6E65000A3E6F00006CF32215568884C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Rich Rich--- Common sense, come on! I thought "they" were doing it for us! Darn! How about the war? Jack 

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Rich Fox" <v4gr at rcn.com> 

> If you want to see people that are brain damaged go to the VA Hospital, or a 
> State Mental Institution. Lots of brain Damaged people there. But they 
> didn't do it on a Motorcycle they did it on a bar stool. I bet the ratio is 
> 100 to 1 or better. Proabition was tried in the US but it was a money loser 
> for the State and so failed. Seatbelt/Helmet laws on the other hand are a 
> revenue stream. Here in California only the very worst cases are still in 
> State care, the rest are sleeping in bushes or dead. Their freedom to drink 
> well preserved. RF 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Feb 21 12:51:12 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:51:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] test
Message-ID: <00c401c874c3$22a3e430$6501a8c0@Glens>

 Test, is this getting out??

Thanks
Glen

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Feb 21 13:00:23 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:00:23 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] test
In-Reply-To: <00c401c874c3$22a3e430$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A3E@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Yes,
David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Glen Barrett
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:51 PM
To: Wester Potter; landspeed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] test

 Test, is this getting out??

Thanks
Glen
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Thu Feb 21 13:41:14 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:41:14 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] test
References: <00c401c874c3$22a3e430$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <000e01c874ca$1a975400$6501a8c0@Rick>

NO

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>; "landspeed at autox.team.net" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:51 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] test


> Test, is this getting out??
>
> Thanks
> Glen
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as rick at rbmotorsports.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Feb 21 13:45:47 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:45:47 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] test
In-Reply-To: <000e01c874ca$1a975400$6501a8c0@Rick>
References: <00c401c874c3$22a3e430$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<000e01c874ca$1a975400$6501a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <47BDE2FB.3000306@mayfco.com>

This is interesting... I got the reply but never received the original 
from Glen....

mayf
Rick Byrnes wrote:

>NO
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
>To: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>; "landspeed at autox.team.net" 
><land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:51 PM
>Subject: [Land-speed] test
>
>
>  
>
>>Test, is this getting out??
>>
>>Thanks
>>Glen
>>_______________________________________________

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Thu Feb 21 14:05:54 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:05:54 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] test
Message-ID: <bfe.2fb8c79b.34ef41b2@aol.com>

Yes....AND how come I can't find any more news on The Earthquake? Earlier  on 
a news channel it was supposedly centered in Wells, Nevada and reported to be 
 a 6.3 on the Richter scale. Any damage/effect in Wendover or nearby? Did it  
effect the Coddington Rift? 
Bob, inquiring mind, W



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.      
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

From david_dymaxion at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 21 14:20:50 2008
From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com (David Dymaxion)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:20:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
Message-ID: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Here is a new contender for land speed racing. The inventor says it could go 200 mph, and up to 300 mph with more work. He also says it'll go as far as 1000 miles on a charge (80 currently), and cost < $24k. The inventor says his electronic brake is "10 times more powerful than a disk brake." The video is good for a quick look, read some of the text for some eye popping claims (like spending $60k to build it!).

http://www.dreamcar123.com/





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Feb 21 14:23:44 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:23:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] test
References: <bfe.2fb8c79b.34ef41b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00f401c874d0$0a8902b0$6501a8c0@Glens>

The quake was a few miles from Wells in Elko. No damage in Wendover that I
have heard of. try the paper www.saltlaketribune.com
or look up Utah and Nevada tv stations on google. I guess there were only a
few minor injuries and a bunch of old buildings damaged. There was also
something about some dude in the local cat house when it hit, something about
the ride being different.
Glen
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: BWANA343 at aol.com
  To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com ; land-speed at autox.team.net
  Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] test


  Yes....AND how come I can't find any more news on The Earthquake? Earlier on
a news channel it was supposedly centered in Wells, Nevada and reported to be
a 6.3 on the Richter scale. Any damage/effect in Wendover or nearby? Did it
effect the Coddington Rift?
  Bob, inquiring mind, W





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
  Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 21 14:30:19 2008
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:30:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] test
In-Reply-To: <bfe.2fb8c79b.34ef41b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <739406.9687.qm@web58013.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I heard that Coddington Rift was the epicenter ?. 
sorry, couldn't resist
BWANA343 at aol.com wrote: Yes....AND how come I can't find any more news on The Earthquake? Earlier  on 
a news channel it was supposedly centered in Wells, Nevada and reported to be 
 a 6.3 on the Richter scale. Any damage/effect in Wendover or nearby? Did it  
effect the Coddington Rift? 
Bob, inquiring mind, W



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.      
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dmirror3 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



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---------------------------------
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From lsrvette at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 21 14:30:56 2008
From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:30:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Earthquake in Nevada
Message-ID: <184622.50088.qm@web50407.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Magnatude 6.3, 43 miles west of Wendover, NV. for more information, see

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Quakes/us2008nsa9.php#maps

...as if racing on the salt was not hard enough, now it's going to be moving side to side...

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 21 14:36:23 2008
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] test
In-Reply-To: <00f401c874d0$0a8902b0$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <741334.7994.qm@web58009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

"There was also
something about some dude in the local cat house when it hit, something about
the ride being different."
As a matter of fact yes,  I did feel the earth move....

Glen Barrett <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> wrote: The quake was a few miles from Wells in Elko. No damage in Wendover that I
have heard of. try the paper www.saltlaketribune.com
or look up Utah and Nevada tv stations on google. I guess there were only a
few minor injuries and a bunch of old buildings damaged. There was also
something about some dude in the local cat house when it hit, something about
the ride being different.
Glen
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: BWANA343 at aol.com
  To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com ; land-speed at autox.team.net
  Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] test


  Yes....AND how come I can't find any more news on The Earthquake? Earlier on
a news channel it was supposedly centered in Wells, Nevada and reported to be
a 6.3 on the Richter scale. Any damage/effect in Wendover or nearby? Did it
effect the Coddington Rift?
  Bob, inquiring mind, W





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
  Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dmirror3 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



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---------------------------------
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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Feb 21 16:40:16 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:40:16 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
In-Reply-To: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47BE0BE0.1050506@mayfco.com>

It would seem he studied aerodynamics at the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid 
School for Aerodynamics.  I suspect his engineering skills came from a 
similar source. I think the SCTA or USFRA, should challenge this guy to 
bring the car to the salt to see if it will even go a mile under full 
boogie conditions. The roll cage should be an interesting construct! It 
mostly appeared to be an electric golf cart rebodied and presumeably 
rebadged to Pryamid Auto Works or PAW which is what he will likely be 
using when it runs out of electrons....

mayf
David Dymaxion wrote:

>Here is a new contender for land speed racing. The inventor says it could go 200 mph, and up to 300 mph with more work. He also says it'll go as far as 1000 miles on a charge (80 currently), and cost < $24k. The inventor says his electronic brake is "10 times more powerful than a disk brake." The video is good for a quick look, read some of the text for some eye popping claims (like spending $60k to build it!).
>
>http://www.dreamcar123.com/

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Feb 21 17:06:09 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:06:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
References: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47BE0BE0.1050506@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <012001c874e6$bae09680$6501a8c0@Glens>

He's probably related to the PROPSTER GUY.
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "David Dymaxion" <david_dymaxion at yahoo.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender


> It would seem he studied aerodynamics at the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid
> School for Aerodynamics.  I suspect his engineering skills came from a
> similar source. I think the SCTA or USFRA, should challenge this guy to
> bring the car to the salt to see if it will even go a mile under full
> boogie conditions. The roll cage should be an interesting construct! It
> mostly appeared to be an electric golf cart rebodied and presumeably
> rebadged to Pryamid Auto Works or PAW which is what he will likely be
> using when it runs out of electrons....
>
> mayf
> David Dymaxion wrote:
>
>>Here is a new contender for land speed racing. The inventor says it could 
>>go 200 mph, and up to 300 mph with more work. He also says it'll go as far 
>>as 1000 miles on a charge (80 currently), and cost < $24k. The inventor 
>>says his electronic brake is "10 times more powerful than a disk brake." 
>>The video is good for a quick look, read some of the text for some eye 
>>popping claims (like spending $60k to build it!).
>>
>>http://www.dreamcar123.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Feb 21 17:10:58 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:10:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
In-Reply-To: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <030701c874e7$66b27d20$0200a8c0@DBTech>

P.T. Barnum was right.

Love that hair dryer "heater".

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
David Dymaxion
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:21 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender

Here is a new contender for land speed racing. The inventor says it could go
200 mph, and up to 300 mph with more work. He also says it'll go as far as
1000 miles on a charge (80 currently), and cost < $24k. The inventor says
his electronic brake is "10 times more powerful than a disk brake." The
video is good for a quick look, read some of the text for some eye popping
claims (like spending $60k to build it!).

http://www.dreamcar123.com/

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Thu Feb 21 17:29:50 2008
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:29:50 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
In-Reply-To: <47BE0BE0.1050506@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20080221192950.L7VB2.8822.imail@eastrmwml30>

-  C-minus  third grade  science fair development models.                   $74.95 at Boys R Us
-  Diploma from the As Seen on TV School of Public Speaking            $149.95 plus S&H (offer void in NC and VT) 
-  Forty-something Tryhard batteries                                                             $2,327.53 FOB Sears
-  Driving thirteen  miles per hour in the cul de sac without worrying about your Trac II blades ever dulling? Aparently Priceless


---- drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote: 
> It would seem he studied aerodynamics at the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid 
> School for Aerodynamics.  I suspect his engineering skills came from a ...

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Feb 21 17:51:28 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:51:28 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
In-Reply-To: <012001c874e6$bae09680$6501a8c0@Glens>
References: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47BE0BE0.1050506@mayfco.com> <012001c874e6$bae09680$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <47BE1C90.9030403@charter.net>

Glen Barrett wrote:

>He's probably related to the PROPSTER GUY.
>GB
>
>  
>
Reminds me of that phony DALE car back in the early 70's. Some 
transvestite was getting money to build. I saw the prototype at the LA 
car show and could tell it was just a body shell on a frame.     Doug 
Odom in big ditch

>  
>
>>It would seem he studied aerodynamics at the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid
>>School for Aerodynamics.  I suspect his engineering skills came from a
>>similar source. I think the SCTA or USFRA, should challenge this guy to
>>bring the car to the salt to see if it will even go a mile under full
>>boogie conditions. The roll cage should be an interesting construct! It
>>mostly appeared to be an electric golf cart rebodied and presumeably
>>rebadged to Pryamid Auto Works or PAW which is what he will likely be
>>using when it runs out of electrons....
>>
>>mayf
>>David Dymaxion wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Here is a new contender for land speed racing. The inventor says it could 
>>>go 200 mph, and up to 300 mph with more work. He also says it'll go as far 
>>>as 1000 miles on a charge (80 currently), and cost < $24k. The inventor 
>>>says his electronic brake is "10 times more powerful than a disk brake." 
>>>The video is good for a quick look, read some of the text for some eye 
>>>popping claims (like spending $60k to build it!).
>>>
>>>http://www.dreamcar123.com/

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Thu Feb 21 18:48:06 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:48:06 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] test
Message-ID: <bf4.1eba5f63.34ef83d6@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/21/2008 4:23:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

I guess there were only a few minor injuries and a bunch of old buildings  
damaged. There was also something about some dude in the local cat house when  
it hit, something about the ride being different.
Glen



The sheriffs wife should have a statement about saloon damage, or even a  
nasty crack about Boyd's Canyon?
 I'm starting to sound like Dolan....
Thanks for the seismic update
Bob, shaken, not stirred, W



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.      
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Feb 21 18:57:23 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:57:23 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
In-Reply-To: <20080221192950.L7VB2.8822.imail@eastrmwml30>
References: <20080221192950.L7VB2.8822.imail@eastrmwml30>
Message-ID: <47BE2C03.104@mayfco.com>

Oh man, I forgot about Pyramid Power! That's how he charges the 
batteries! In adition to keeping his razor blades sharp forever as 
mentioned.

mayf
ifixmgs at cox.net wrote:

>-  C-minus  third grade  science fair development models.                   $74.95 at Boys R Us
>-  Diploma from the As Seen on TV School of Public Speaking            $149.95 plus S&H (offer void in NC and VT) 
>-  Forty-something Tryhard batteries                                                             $2,327.53 FOB Sears
>-  Driving thirteen  miles per hour in the cul de sac without worrying about your Trac II blades ever dulling? Aparently Priceless
>
>
>---- drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote: 
>  
>
>>It would seem he studied aerodynamics at the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid 
>>School for Aerodynamics.  I suspect his engineering skills came from a ...

From rbuck at xmission.com  Thu Feb 21 19:55:42 2008
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:55:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
In-Reply-To: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E1JSO4x-0004hY-4V@mgr1.xmission.com>

I saw something like that in a motel parking lot in Mesquite, Nevada 
last year.  It may have lacked the pyramid power concept of energy 
concentration (you can find all about that in Sedona, Arizona) but it 
had a sort of unique charm:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/temp/20070405_003r8.jpg

I found out what it really was and then promptly forgot it.  It's 
built on a Ford F350 chassis, I think.  I have no idea what it was 
doing in that parking lot in Mesquite, though.

Ray the (snow-covered) Rat


At 02:20 PM 2/21/2008, David Dymaxion wrote:
>Here is a new contender for land speed racing. The inventor says it 
>could go 200 mph, and up to 300 mph with more work. He also says 
>it'll go as far as 1000 miles on a charge (80 currently), and cost < 
>$24k. The inventor says his electronic brake is "10 times more 
>powerful than a disk brake." The video is good for a quick look, 
>read some of the text for some eye popping claims (like spending 
>$60k to build it!).
>
>http://www.dreamcar123.com/

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Thu Feb 21 20:08:36 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:08:36 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
Message-ID: <c08.2eebd34e.34ef96b4@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/21/2008 9:56:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
rbuck at xmission.com writes:

I found  out what it really was and then promptly forgot it.  It's 
built on a  Ford F350 chassis, I think.  I have no idea what it was 
doing in that  parking lot in Mesquite, though.



Coincidentally, there was a show on a PBS station a few nights ago  featuring 
that very vehicle. It's a tornado chase rig, designed to withstand a  direct 
hit from these types of storms. I'm sorry I don't recall exactly  which/where 
I saw this, but I'm hoping another Lister also saw it. 
It does look like something you'd expect to see parked near Roswell or in  
Vegas. 
Bob W



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.      
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

From rbuck at xmission.com  Thu Feb 21 21:10:08 2008
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:10:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
In-Reply-To: <c08.2eebd34e.34ef96b4@aol.com>
References: <c08.2eebd34e.34ef96b4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <E1JSPEz-0003Bl-4S@mgr1.xmission.com>

Ahhh, yes.  Mayf clued me in and then it came back.  Mind like a steel sieve.

It was built as a tornado chaser.  Here's a link to a writeup on it 
and a coupla other chase vehicles (it's called IMAX):
http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/tornado-intercept-vehicles.html

I love gettin old and forgetting what I already forgot.  I think.

RtR


At 08:08 PM 2/21/2008, BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 2/21/2008 9:56:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
>rbuck at xmission.com writes:
>I found out what it really was and then promptly forgot it.  It's
>built on a Ford F350 chassis, I think.  I have no idea what it was
>doing in that parking lot in Mesquite, though.
>
>Coincidentally, there was a show on a PBS station a few nights ago 
>featuring that very vehicle. It's a tornado chase rig, designed to 
>withstand a direct hit from these types of storms. I'm sorry I don't 
>recall exactly which/where I saw this, but I'm hoping another Lister 
>also saw it.
>It does look like something you'd expect to see parked near Roswell 
>or in Vegas.
>Bob W

From rbuck at xmission.com  Thu Feb 21 21:15:50 2008
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:15:50 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
Message-ID: <E1JSPKV-0003bS-3M@mgr1.xmission.com>

Woops!  Belay that order.  It's called the TIV (Tornado Intercept 
Vehicle {Mk I...more or less}) and was built for the IMAX filming 
outfit.  Sposeta be a movie released this year about their adventures.

Ray (the mind-boggled) Rat
(I been playin the same piece on the piano for an hour straight tryin 
to get it right.  Musta warped what's left of the brain.  I think I'm 
a idjit for takin up piano playin at the age of 60.  But I started 
playin bass at 57, so what the heck, huh?)


Ahhh, yes.  Mayf clued me in and then it came back.  Mind like a steel sieve.

It was built as a tornado chaser.  Here's a link to a writeup on it 
and a coupla other chase vehicles (it's called IMAX):
http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/tornado-intercept-vehicles.html

I love gettin old and forgetting what I already forgot.  I think.

RtR


At 08:08 PM 2/21/2008, BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 2/21/2008 9:56:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
>rbuck at xmission.com writes:
>I found out what it really was and then promptly forgot it.  It's
>built on a Ford F350 chassis, I think.  I have no idea what it was
>doing in that parking lot in Mesquite, though.
>
>Coincidentally, there was a show on a PBS station a few nights ago 
>featuring that very vehicle. It's a tornado chase rig, designed to 
>withstand a direct hit from these types of storms. I'm sorry I don't 
>recall exactly which/where I saw this, but I'm hoping another Lister 
>also saw it.
>It does look like something you'd expect to see parked near Roswell 
>or in Vegas.
>Bob W

From john.szalay at att.net  Fri Feb 22 07:26:27 2008
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:26:27 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] test  NON-LSR
Message-ID: <022220081426.15763.47BEDB92000E281400003D9322230704929B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

all the details. without the media hype.. check all the tabs..

 http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Quakes/us2008nsa9.php#details

 felt in Wendover, but no damage..

http://weather.weatherbug.com/UT/Wendover-weather/weather-cams/local-cams.html?zcode=z6169
-------------- Original message from BWANA343 at aol.com: -------------- 


> Yes....AND how come I can't find any more news on The Earthquake? Earlier on  a news channel it was supposedly centered in Wells, Nevada and reported to be a 6.3 on the Richter scale. Any damage/effect in Wendover or nearby? Did it effect the Coddington Rift? 
> Bob, inquiring mind, W 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Feb 22 10:18:36 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:18:36 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Helmet SIde Support Qs
Message-ID: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com>

I want to try and be compliant with the new rules abot having less than 
2 inches side movement of the helmet. I think the rule is flawed, but I 
don't get a vote so I want to build a better supprt. I see the nascar 
seats have a pair of "horns" attached to that the helmet cannot rattle 
from side to side. I want to add something like that to my roll cage. a 
piece of flat aluminum bar stock that goes from the front bar back to 
the rear vertical bars on each side. Then I will put some foam pad on 
it. I think you can buy the SFI stuff in flat sheets and that may be my 
answer for padding. Question - how wide should this bar be?  1 inch? 2" 
Or More? How thick? 1/8 inch? 3/16"? 1/4" or more?  Thoughts or 
comments? No I am not going to creplace my seat with one of  one of 
thoses. Won't fit and they are way too expensive.  I am not worried 
abotu forward head movement, just side to side. Comment on this proposed 
solution please..

mayf

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Feb 22 10:29:13 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:29:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Helmet SIde Support Qs
References: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <004901c87578$7320bdb0$6501a8c0@Glens>

Mayf
The new rule book will be out in a couple of weeks and I would wait to see 
if they have included any drawings in it to show the requirements.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:18 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Helmet SIde Support Qs


>I want to try and be compliant with the new rules abot having less than
> 2 inches side movement of the helmet. I think the rule is flawed, but I
> don't get a vote so I want to build a better supprt. I see the nascar
> seats have a pair of "horns" attached to that the helmet cannot rattle
> from side to side. I want to add something like that to my roll cage. a
> piece of flat aluminum bar stock that goes from the front bar back to
> the rear vertical bars on each side. Then I will put some foam pad on
> it. I think you can buy the SFI stuff in flat sheets and that may be my
> answer for padding. Question - how wide should this bar be?  1 inch? 2"
> Or More? How thick? 1/8 inch? 3/16"? 1/4" or more?  Thoughts or
> comments? No I am not going to creplace my seat with one of  one of
> thoses. Won't fit and they are way too expensive.  I am not worried
> abotu forward head movement, just side to side. Comment on this proposed
> solution please..
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Feb 22 11:23:20 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:23:20 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - scratch one satellite
References: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com>
	<004901c87578$7320bdb0$6501a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <002c01c87580$029aeb30$6401a8c0@S>

 Go Navy!!
Most Americans don't yet realize what a big deal it was for a guided missle
cruiser to turn a satellite into football sized chunks.
But I'm sure none of it was lost on the folks in the PRC military
leadership.
Kinda would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in the wardroom when
the exec announced that set of orders.
Ed Weldon

From Joetimney at dol.net  Fri Feb 22 11:47:43 2008
From: Joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:47:43 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Helmet SIde Support Qs
In-Reply-To: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com>
References: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <47BF18CF.5090204@dol.net>

May I offer one of the best head restraint systems I have seen to date. 
Go to www.ispseats.com. Kris VanGilder is the guy John Force went to 
when Meddian got killed to update his fleet of hotrods.

Go the the custom drag head surrounds and look at what he offers. The 
one that goes around the side of your head is $325. That includes the 
aluminum plate that you mount, return to him and they pad it and install 
the covering. This system is SFI 45.2 approved. This is a triple density 
foam, soft on the outside to stop the eye shutter from the vibration you 
receive when the helmet touches the hard padding.

Donna & I meet with Kris at PRI and We were impressed with Kris's 
credentials in seat testing...he did all of the impact testing for 
Butler seats for 11 years before going on his own. His custom seats 
start about $900, $200 less that Kirkey sells them for...and they are 
built for you.

As far as buying the foam to do it yourself, try BSCI. 
www.rollbarpadding.com They sell sheets that they will slit to the 
thickness you need.

Kris buys all his foam from BSCI.

Kris will be making all of the padding for my new liner.

Sure hope this helps you,
joe

drmayf wrote:
> I want to try and be compliant with the new rules abot having less than 
> 2 inches side movement of the helmet. I think the rule is flawed, but I 
> don't get a vote so I want to build a better supprt. I see the nascar 
> seats have a pair of "horns" attached to that the helmet cannot rattle 
> from side to side. I want to add something like that to my roll cage. a 
> piece of flat aluminum bar stock that goes from the front bar back to 
> the rear vertical bars on each side. Then I will put some foam pad on 
> it. I think you can buy the SFI stuff in flat sheets and that may be my 
> answer for padding. Question - how wide should this bar be?  1 inch? 2" 
> Or More? How thick? 1/8 inch? 3/16"? 1/4" or more?  Thoughts or 
> comments? No I am not going to creplace my seat with one of  one of 
> thoses. Won't fit and they are way too expensive.  I am not worried 
> abotu forward head movement, just side to side. Comment on this proposed 
> solution please..
> 
> mayf

From zoombot at cox.net  Fri Feb 22 12:54:26 2008
From: zoombot at cox.net (Pile,Chris)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:54:26 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite
Message-ID: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC>

    List -

    In the coverage about shooting down this non-functional satellite, the
powers that be were worried about the fuel left in this bus-sized flying
junker. Did anyone ever catch the name of the fuel? That crazy-badass rocket
fuel that did a little part-time job in Top Fuel tanks for awhile back in the
day - hydrazine!

    Chris Pile aka aircap

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Feb 22 13:03:22 2008
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:03:22 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite
In-Reply-To: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20A1104C8@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

There is a BUS sized spy satellite full of all the latest technology
floating around uncontrollably and could come down anywhere, and they
were worried that a little Hydrazine was going to spill?

Boy aren't we nice Global Citizens.... The Navy did do a pretty good job
with their Pea Shooter, bet they have their thumbs up under their
suspenders!

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Fri Feb 22 13:17:15 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:17:15 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite
In-Reply-To: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A49@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

What I remember is " if you stood all day inhaling fumes you might be in
danger"  (don't know if this is true or bs).

Seems to be another case like my weeks in the North China Sea (watching
fellow sailors die) because we needed a "show of force".  I guess we
showed them.

It all has purpose somewhere in someone's mind . . . .

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Pile,Chris
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:54 PM
To: Land Speed Digest
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite

    List -

    In the coverage about shooting down this non-functional satellite,
the
powers that be were worried about the fuel left in this bus-sized flying
junker. Did anyone ever catch the name of the fuel? That crazy-badass
rocket
fuel that did a little part-time job in Top Fuel tanks for awhile back
in the
day - hydrazine!

    Chris Pile aka aircap
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Feb 22 14:11:11 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:11:11 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A49@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <006601c87597$7679e2b0$6401a8c0@S>

Hydrazine--
My one bit of knowledge of this stuff came some 40 years ago from a senior
technician at the Reaction Motors Lake Denmark (NJ) test site.  He had seen
a fellow worker spill some on his pants following which they disappeared in
a rapid sheet of flame causing little more than minor first degree burns.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
To: "Pile,Chris" <zoombot at cox.net>; "Land Speed Digest"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite


> What I remember is " if you stood all day inhaling fumes you might be in
> danger"  (don't know if this is true or bs).

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Feb 22 17:17:18 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:17:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite
In-Reply-To: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC>
References: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC>
Message-ID: <036301c875b1$73f3ae30$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Chris;

Back in the early Sixties we used hydrazine and furfural alcohol along with
a red fuming nitric acid oxidizer in our old Corporal IIB missiles. No big
deal-- just use caution with it.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Pile,Chris
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:54 PM
To: Land Speed Digest
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite

    List -

    In the coverage about shooting down this non-functional satellite, the
powers that be were worried about the fuel left in this bus-sized flying
junker. Did anyone ever catch the name of the fuel? That crazy-badass rocket
fuel that did a little part-time job in Top Fuel tanks for awhile back in
the
day - hydrazine!

    Chris Pile aka aircap

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Fri Feb 22 17:23:50 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:23:50 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
In-Reply-To: <E1JSO4x-0004hY-4V@mgr1.xmission.com>
References: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<E1JSO4x-0004hY-4V@mgr1.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <47BF6796.3070809@wildblue.net>

That's a Burning Man Limo. Ray

Bryan

 

Ray Buck wrote:
> I saw something like that in a motel parking lot in Mesquite, Nevada 
> last year.  It may have lacked the pyramid power concept of energy 
> concentration (you can find all about that in Sedona, Arizona) but it 
> had a sort of unique charm:
> http://www.chevyasylum.com/temp/20070405_003r8.jpg
>
> I found out what it really was and then promptly forgot it.  It's 
> built on a Ford F350 chassis, I think.  I have no idea what it was 
> doing in that parking lot in Mesquite, though.
>
> Ray the (snow-covered) Rat

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Fri Feb 22 17:29:11 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:29:11 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] test  NON-LSR
In-Reply-To: <022220081426.15763.47BEDB92000E281400003D9322230704929B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
References: <022220081426.15763.47BEDB92000E281400003D9322230704929B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
Message-ID: <47BF68D7.7090500@wildblue.net>

I wonder if any big cracks opened in the salt?
If I were closer, I'd go check. I don't know enough about the
geology of the salt flats to have any idea.

Hoeing for smooth salt,
Bryan


John Szalay wrote:
> all the details. without the media hype.. check all the tabs..
>
>  http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Quakes/us2008nsa9.php#details
>
>  felt in Wendover, but no damage..
>
> http://weather.weatherbug.com/UT/Wendover-weather/weather-cams/local-cams.html?zcode=z6169
> -------------- Original message from BWANA343 at aol.com: -------------- 

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Fri Feb 22 17:29:59 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:29:59 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrazine
In-Reply-To: <036301c875b1$73f3ae30$0200a8c0@DBTech>
References: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC>
	<036301c875b1$73f3ae30$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <20080223003005.7F4AF187684@autox.team.net>

I ran it once in my blown Chrysler.....went faster and turned the 
cylinder walls blue in one pass. I was told not to get it on my 
skin.....I didn't.
Skip




At 04:17 PM 2/22/2008, neil at dbelltech.com wrote:
>Chris;
>
>Back in the early Sixties we used hydrazine and furfural alcohol along with
>a red fuming nitric acid oxidizer in our old Corporal IIB missiles. No big
>deal-- just use caution with it.
>
>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
>Pile,Chris
>Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:54 PM
>To: Land Speed Digest
>Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite
>
>     List -
>
>     In the coverage about shooting down this non-functional satellite, the
>powers that be were worried about the fuel left in this bus-sized flying
>junker. Did anyone ever catch the name of the fuel? That crazy-badass rocket
>fuel that did a little part-time job in Top Fuel tanks for awhile back in
>the
>day - hydrazine!
>
>     Chris Pile aka aircap

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Fri Feb 22 17:53:58 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:53:58 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Helmet SIde Support Qs
In-Reply-To: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com>
References: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <47BF6EA6.1050506@wildblue.net>

Mayf,
I would first call the Manufacturer of your helmet and see if they
have any ideas.

I would like a 2" wide 3/16 or 1/4 inch bar, depending on the length.
Position vertically so that it contacts the helmet at the CG of the
head - helmet assembly.
Cover that with the hard foam that is used in helmets, between
the shell and the softer padding. Cover this with 1/2 inch or more of SFI.

Tom Burkland pointed out to me that, first you must survive the crash,
then you worry about all of the other stuff. That sounded reasonable to me.

Just my opinion's,
Bryan


drmayf wrote:
> I want to try and be compliant with the new rules abot having less than 
> 2 inches side movement of the helmet. I think the rule is flawed, but I 
> don't get a vote so I want to build a better supprt. I see the nascar 
> seats have a pair of "horns" attached to that the helmet cannot rattle 
> from side to side. I want to add something like that to my roll cage. a 
> piece of flat aluminum bar stock that goes from the front bar back to 
> the rear vertical bars on each side. Then I will put some foam pad on 
> it. I think you can buy the SFI stuff in flat sheets and that may be my 
> answer for padding. Question - how wide should this bar be?  1 inch? 2" 
> Or More? How thick? 1/8 inch? 3/16"? 1/4" or more?  Thoughts or 
> comments? No I am not going to creplace my seat with one of  one of 
> thoses. Won't fit and they are way too expensive.  I am not worried 
> abotu forward head movement, just side to side. Comment on this proposed 
> solution please..
>
> mayf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Feb 22 18:04:36 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:04:36 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrazine
In-Reply-To: <20080223003005.7F4AF187684@autox.team.net>
References: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC>
	<036301c875b1$73f3ae30$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<20080223003005.7F4AF187684@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <47BF7124.7060409@mayfco.com>

For all those who have used this stuff before, we now know what is wrong 
with you, lol... take a look at this link to MSDS sheet for Anhydrous 
Hydrazine (the rocket fuel).  If you have any breathing or respiratory 
issues or eye problems, etc... scroll down to the Emergency Overview... 
By the way, Red Fuming Nitric Acid  is no better.

https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/11040.htm


mayf
Skip Higginbotham wrote:

>I ran it once in my blown Chrysler.....went faster and turned the 
>cylinder walls blue in one pass. I was told not to get it on my 
>skin.....I didn't.
>Skip
>
>
>
>
>At 04:17 PM 2/22/2008, neil at dbelltech.com wrote:
>  
>
>>Chris;
>>
>>Back in the early Sixties we used hydrazine and furfural alcohol along with
>>a red fuming nitric acid oxidizer in our old Corporal IIB missiles. No big
>>deal-- just use caution with it.
>>
>>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
>>[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
>>Pile,Chris
>>Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:54 PM
>>To: Land Speed Digest
>>Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite
>>
>>    List -
>>
>>    In the coverage about shooting down this non-functional satellite, the
>>powers that be were worried about the fuel left in this bus-sized flying
>>junker. Did anyone ever catch the name of the fuel? That crazy-badass rocket
>>fuel that did a little part-time job in Top Fuel tanks for awhile back in
>>the
>>day - hydrazine!
>>
>>    Chris Pile aka aircap
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 18:12:51 2008
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:12:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrazine
In-Reply-To: <20080223003005.7F4AF187684@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <734851.22495.qm@web58015.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hydrazine is a current thread on the HAMB. If there is anyone out there not familiar with HAMB, what are you waiting for ? get on board !. If you're on this list, you'll love the HAMB. 

http://tinyurl.com/3cj4ej

Dale
Cleveland

Skip Higginbotham <saltrat at pahrump.com> wrote: I ran it once in my blown Chrysler.....went faster and turned the 
cylinder walls blue in one pass. I was told not to get it on my 
skin.....I didn't.
Skip




At 04:17 PM 2/22/2008, neil at dbelltech.com wrote:
>Chris;
>
>Back in the early Sixties we used hydrazine and furfural alcohol along with
>a red fuming nitric acid oxidizer in our old Corporal IIB missiles. No big
>deal-- just use caution with it.
>
>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
>Pile,Chris
>Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:54 PM
>To: Land Speed Digest
>Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - Scratch One Satellite
>
>     List -
>
>     In the coverage about shooting down this non-functional satellite, the
>powers that be were worried about the fuel left in this bus-sized flying
>junker. Did anyone ever catch the name of the fuel? That crazy-badass rocket
>fuel that did a little part-time job in Top Fuel tanks for awhile back in
>the
>day - hydrazine!
>
>     Chris Pile aka aircap
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dmirror3 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Human beings hardly ever learn from the experience of others. They learn; when they do, which isn't often, on their own, the hard way. 


       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Fri Feb 22 18:29:39 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:29:39 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - scratch one satellite
In-Reply-To: <002c01c87580$029aeb30$6401a8c0@S>
References: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com>
	<004901c87578$7320bdb0$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<002c01c87580$029aeb30$6401a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <47BF7703.2000907@wildblue.net>

I think it's a very big deal.

What surprised me ED was the amount of energy they got into a small
package. Current electronics are so small that you can buy a complete
inertial system that is about 3x3x4 inches. Add to that phased array
radar and a targeting system and  your in business. The avionics are,
in my mind, the easy part.
The propulsion system is what amazes me. It must be 100% reliable or
your going to be building a lot of ships. Not a good plan.

Bryan


Ed Weldon wrote:
>  Go Navy!!
> Most Americans don't yet realize what a big deal it was for a guided missle
> cruiser to turn a satellite into football sized chunks.
> But I'm sure none of it was lost on the folks in the PRC military
> leadership.
> Kinda would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in the wardroom when
> the exec announced that set of orders.
> Ed Weldon
> _______________________________________________

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Feb 22 18:40:10 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:40:10 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - scratch one satellite
In-Reply-To: <47BF7703.2000907@wildblue.net>
References: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com>
	<004901c87578$7320bdb0$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<002c01c87580$029aeb30$6401a8c0@S> <47BF7703.2000907@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <47BF797A.3020703@mayfco.com>

The sat was traveling at 17000 mph and the SM-3 speed was a reported 
6000 mph. 23000 mph closing speed. put the mass of the two together and 
convert the speed to fps and suddenly you have a lot of very high 
energy.    I don't know what the sat mass was but it was probably 
significant, maybe 10,000 lbs. Ignore the missile mass... my rusty math 
says 1.76 time 10 to the 11 power in ft-lbs of energy released....  
SOmebody check me...

mayf
Bryan Savage wrote:

>I think it's a very big deal.
>
>What surprised me ED was the amount of energy they got into a small
>package. Current electronics are so small that you can buy a complete
>inertial system that is about 3x3x4 inches. Add to that phased array
>radar and a targeting system and  your in business. The avionics are,
>in my mind, the easy part.
>The propulsion system is what amazes me. It must be 100% reliable or
>your going to be building a lot of ships. Not a good plan.
>
>Bryan
>
>
>Ed Weldon wrote:
>  
>
>> Go Navy!!
>>Most Americans don't yet realize what a big deal it was for a guided missle
>>cruiser to turn a satellite into football sized chunks.
>>But I'm sure none of it was lost on the folks in the PRC military
>>leadership.
>>Kinda would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in the wardroom when
>>the exec announced that set of orders.
>>Ed Weldon
>>_______________________________________________
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 22 19:25:44 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:25:44 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrazine
References: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC><036301c875b1$73f3ae30$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<20080223003005.7F4AF187684@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <001e01c875c3$656d17e0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrazine

If you've ever worked for a power company with large steam boilers you know 
it "ain't no big thing". We have barrels of it..... 

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Fri Feb 22 19:34:09 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:34:09 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR - scratch one satellite
In-Reply-To: <47BF797A.3020703@mayfco.com>
References: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com>
	<004901c87578$7320bdb0$6501a8c0@Glens>
	<002c01c87580$029aeb30$6401a8c0@S> <47BF7703.2000907@wildblue.net>
	<47BF797A.3020703@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <47BF8621.5040609@wildblue.net>

Sorry Mayf, I wasn't clear.
I was talking about the power of the small rocket motor and the 
reliability needed.

Bryan

drmayf wrote:
> The sat was traveling at 17000 mph and the SM-3 speed was a reported 
> 6000 mph. 23000 mph closing speed. put the mass of the two together 
> and convert the speed to fps and suddenly you have a lot of very high 
> energy.    I don't know what the sat mass was but it was probably 
> significant, maybe 10,000 lbs. Ignore the missile mass... my rusty 
> math says 1.76 time 10 to the 11 power in ft-lbs of energy 
> released....  SOmebody check me...
>
> mayf

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Fri Feb 22 20:14:22 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:14:22 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender
In-Reply-To: <47BF6796.3070809@wildblue.net>
References: <516927.24652.qm@web32802.mail.mud.yahoo.com><E1JSO4x-0004hY-4V@mgr1.xmission.com>
	<47BF6796.3070809@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <1D3CE01C4A4B430892B1CF4EF1A6CC11@LindaPC>

Sorta looks like my Lakester!!!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "Ray Buck" <rbuck at xmission.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "David Dymaxion" <david_dymaxion at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] New Land Speed Contender


> That's a Burning Man Limo. Ray

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Fri Feb 22 20:50:59 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:50:59 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Helmet SIde Support Qs
In-Reply-To: <47BF18CF.5090204@dol.net>
References: <47BF03EC.6080901@mayfco.com> <47BF18CF.5090204@dol.net>
Message-ID: <04159FE9559944D38519F61EEB4BE64E@LindaPC>

Thanks for the post Joe---it looks like this is deffinitely a better mouse 
trap!!!!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Timney" <Joetimney at dol.net> 

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 22 20:51:22 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:51:22 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt Dreams
In-Reply-To: <3A9AC6A9-D95B-4B99-A306-28D5B64596A0@comcast.net>
References: <340744.67523.qm@web903.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3A9AC6A9-D95B-4B99-A306-28D5B64596A0@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W743B1B346493E8E4F74C1D91E0@phx.gbl>

wish we could all get a chance to see it.....


   c heers to ya ,  ' Dirt  Track  Doug '
    -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
    -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
    -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
    -105 miles south of   'the Syracuse Mile' ...
    -262 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
    -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
              but never more than a few feet from a cold one

         -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,
                                     Cold Beer, Fast Cars, an' Warm Willin'
Wimin'

  Speedway Bikes,  Minibikes  and Harley- D's rode with equal joy,
      Dog Training,  Murdersickle Parts,  Emergency Airship repair,  Hot Air
        Aerial Surveillance,  Corrupt Politicians exposed,  Midgets,  Sprint
Cars,

                            -and 'Slide Jobs'  appreciated  for the  FINE ART
that they are
             -------------------------- oooo ---------------------------
    Wise words from the ancients   -especially in light of America's  '
troubles' :




             VULGAS VULT DECEPI   - Phaedrus

                          (  the (common)  people wish to be deceived  )



> From: wester6935 at comcast.net
> To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> Subject: Salt Dreams
> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:29:13 -0700
>
> No one had more fun on the salt last year than this crew!
>
> They'll be back, they caught "Salt Fever" in a big way.
>
> Wes
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>

_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 22 23:21:10 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:21:10 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: 1957CarShow
Message-ID: <001c01c875e4$486ee6c0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Some you may like this. I was 13 in '57 and grew up in Inglewood Ca. near 
Isky's shop. I remember some of these cars and especially the trucks. I saw 
the Copper Kart and Dream Truck many times



> These are some real historical early car shows..... super neat....
>
>
> Subject: 1957CarShow
>
>
>
> This is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the info and about the customs!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>>>>>> This is a movie of a 1957 car show at Excelsior High School in 
>>>>>> Norwalk,
>>>>>> Caifornia put on by the Coachmen Car Club of Norwalk, Ca.  Excelsior 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Norwalk H S's were cross town rivals of Artesia H S in Artesia,
> Ca.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This will knock your socks off!!!
>>>>>> If you have trouble opening it from this e-mail try and google 
>>>>>> Jalopy Journal or the H.A.M.B.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1836
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1836

From saltfevr at q.com  Sat Feb 23 09:39:21 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (TOM M SHANNON)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:39:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: 1957CarShow
In-Reply-To: <001c01c875e4$486ee6c0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <001c01c875e4$486ee6c0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W29DE3A55066E4FDB8B779BC91E0@phx.gbl>

JD:

Thanks for forwarding the HAMB Norwalk link. I don't get over to the Hamb as
much as I should. Loved the flamed gullwing! Great seeing how things were in a
much simpler time. And to think many of those young rodders were off to "Nam"
a few yrs. later. Thanks again JD!Tom ShannonMagna, Utah> From:
gmc6power at earthlink.net> To: land-speed at autox.team.net> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008
22:21:10 -0800> Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: 1957CarShow> > Some you may like
this. I was 13 in '57 and grew up in Inglewood Ca. near > Isky's shop. I
remember some of these cars and especially the trucks. I saw > the Copper Kart
and Dream Truck many times> > > > > These are some real historical early car
shows..... super neat....> >> >> > Subject: 1957CarShow> >> >> >> > This is
GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the info and about the customs!!!!!!!!!> >> >> >>>>>>
This is a movie of a 1957 car show at Excelsior High School in > >>>>>>
Norwalk,> >>>>>> Caifornia put on by the Coachmen Car Club of Norwalk, Ca.
Excelsior > >>>>>> and> >>>>>> Norwalk H S's were cross town rivals of Artesia
H S in Artesia,> > Ca.> >>>>>>> >>>>>> This will knock your socks off!!!>
>>>>>> If you have trouble opening it from this e-mail try and google > >>>>>>
Jalopy Journal or the H.A.M.B.> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1836> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1836>
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are
subscribed as saltfevr at q.com> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sat Feb 23 16:32:52 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:32:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrazine
In-Reply-To: <47BF7124.7060409@mayfco.com>
References: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC>
	<036301c875b1$73f3ae30$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<20080223003005.7F4AF187684@autox.team.net>
	<47BF7124.7060409@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <03e301c87674$68fd1700$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Mayf;

Ever wonder what comes after a "5, 4, 3, 2, 1, zero" countdown sequence and
nothing happens? It happened to us during missile firing practice. We were
airlifted to the Outer Hebrides Islands to use the Royal Artillery Guided
Weapons Range on Benbecula. A couple of Corporal missiles were launched out
into the Atlantic successfully and then this happened.

The missile sat on the launcher when the count reached "zero" so the count
continued "A, B, C, D,..." until it reached "J"; at that point the order was
given to vent the oxidizer overboard and clouds of red nitric acid blew out
of the vents. After decontamination the hydrazine fuel needed to be unloaded
but first the missile internal power (NiCd batteries) needed to be
disconnected. A sergeant went up in a cherry picker to disconnect the power
but a wind gust caught the cherry picker, broke the shear pin and it spun
around 360 degrees and slammed into the still- fueled missile. We looked
on-- horrified-- as the missile rocked back and forth on its launcher.
Fortunately, it settled back instead of toppling over. That sergeant in the
cherry picker basket was awfully glad to get his feet back on the ground.

End of "war story" but maybe you're right about its effect on me. :)

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 6:05 PM
To: Skip Higginbotham
Cc: neil at dbelltech.com; 'Pile,Chris'; 'Land Speed Digest'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Hydrazine

For all those who have used this stuff before, we now know what is wrong 
with you, lol... take a look at this link to MSDS sheet for Anhydrous 
Hydrazine (the rocket fuel).  If you have any breathing or respiratory 
issues or eye problems, etc... scroll down to the Emergency Overview... 
By the way, Red Fuming Nitric Acid  is no better.

https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/11040.htm


mayf

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Sat Feb 23 19:26:04 2008
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:26:04 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] {Land-speed/Not} Fw: 1957CarShow
In-Reply-To: <BAY122-W29DE3A55066E4FDB8B779BC91E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20080223212604.X3ZRV.27056.imail@eastrmwml30>

   I always forget to check out its parent site Jalopyjournal.com.  Some very  talented folks are posting the art and history of car crafting on the homepage.  Those three car show movies are national rodding treasures, and I'm grateful that they were freely shared  because otherwise a lot of us would have missed them altogether.     The flamed Mercedes really caught my attention too - a  "ricer" a half century  before its time (minus the wing and thumpin' stereo....)     I'll bet some guys on the field were  oogling the intake plumbing, wondering how to bolt it to a Jimmy...   
 
   I was only nine in '56 but  had the great fortune of a car-nut dad, and  two working uncles with hot rods.  But  it was our next door neighbor   -  a HS junior/  car club member with  a mild custom 53 Ford  with spotlights and front visor  and his girlfriend Betty's name  professionally lettered on the skirts  who  took me to car shows,  and occassional races that turned me into a gearhead.      
  This morning after tending to the horses in an icy  downpour,  I plopped on the couch, vegged out  and watched  a program (for the first time)  on Speed called "Livin' the Low Life"    Ok, it was mostly about a curvy girl, but she actually sounded interested and seemed to be having a lot of  fun hanging around car guys. Some bouncers and Imps, but mostly just cool old Bombs.    Anyone seen it?    I must be  getting nostalgic in my "advanced age"....  a  couple weeks ago I started actively  looking for reasonably priced '48 Chev Stylemaster sedan  or 50 Ford Tudor to re-live the joys of either of my first two cars. I've got two in my sights on the HAMB right now.  
  





---- TOM M SHANNON <saltfevr at q.com> wrote: 
> JD:
> Thanks for forwarding the HAMB Norwalk link. I don't get over to the Hamb as
> much as I should. Loved the flamed gullwing! Great seeing how things were in a
> much simpler time. And to think many of those young rodders were off to "Nam"
> a few yrs. later. Thanks again JD!Tom ShannonMagna, Utah> From:

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Feb 23 22:12:40 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:12:40 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrazine
In-Reply-To: <03e301c87674$68fd1700$0200a8c0@DBTech>
References: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC>
	<036301c875b1$73f3ae30$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<20080223003005.7F4AF187684@autox.team.net>
	<47BF7124.7060409@mayfco.com> <03e301c87674$68fd1700$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <47C0FCC8.4010008@mayfco.com>

Did you hear about the Titan that blew up in Arkansas?  One of the guys 
who worked for me was on the MArtin investigation team... That caused a 
750 ton door to actually disappear, blown into very small fragments. 750 
tons.  All because a tech in a space suit dropped a wrench that bounced 
off the missile and cause a weeping leak in the oxydizer, ed fuming 
nitric acid... I suspect you folk were very lucky to be alive. Although 
the corporal was a small battlefield tactical weapon.

mayf.
neil at dbelltech.com wrote:

>Mayf;
>
>Ever wonder what comes after a "5, 4, 3, 2, 1, zero" countdown sequence and
>nothing happens? It happened to us during missile firing practice. We were
>airlifted to the Outer Hebrides Islands to use the Royal Artillery Guided
>Weapons Range on Benbecula. A couple of Corporal missiles were launched out
>into the Atlantic successfully and then this happened.
>
>The missile sat on the launcher when the count reached "zero" so the count
>continued "A, B, C, D,..." until it reached "J"; at that point the order was
>given to vent the oxidizer overboard and clouds of red nitric acid blew out
>of the vents. After decontamination the hydrazine fuel needed to be unloaded
>but first the missile internal power (NiCd batteries) needed to be
>disconnected. A sergeant went up in a cherry picker to disconnect the power
>but a wind gust caught the cherry picker, broke the shear pin and it spun
>around 360 degrees and slammed into the still- fueled missile. We looked
>on-- horrified-- as the missile rocked back and forth on its launcher.
>Fortunately, it settled back instead of toppling over. That sergeant in the
>cherry picker basket was awfully glad to get his feet back on the ground.
>
>End of "war story" but maybe you're right about its effect on me. :)
>
>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com] 
>Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 6:05 PM
>To: Skip Higginbotham
>Cc: neil at dbelltech.com; 'Pile,Chris'; 'Land Speed Digest'
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Hydrazine
>
>For all those who have used this stuff before, we now know what is wrong 
>with you, lol... take a look at this link to MSDS sheet for Anhydrous 
>Hydrazine (the rocket fuel).  If you have any breathing or respiratory 
>issues or eye problems, etc... scroll down to the Emergency Overview... 
>By the way, Red Fuming Nitric Acid  is no better.
>
>https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/11040.htm
>
>
>mayf

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Feb 24 10:33:36 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:33:36 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrazine
In-Reply-To: <47C0FCC8.4010008@mayfco.com>
References: <001301c8758c$ba8db720$e8b36744@HomePC>
	<036301c875b1$73f3ae30$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<20080223003005.7F4AF187684@autox.team.net>
	<47BF7124.7060409@mayfco.com> <03e301c87674$68fd1700$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<47C0FCC8.4010008@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <47C1AA70.3010202@wildblue.net>

That sure brings back memory's Mayf.
I worked on ATLAS F sites in Kansas and New Mexico in the early '60's.
I heard a lot of scary stuff primarily related to LOX. Most of what was
being done was new to EVERYONE. The learning curve as almost vertical.
I don't think the USAF ever had a successful launch from a real military
silo, but did have some interesting attempts. The problem was the missile
was not locked to the launch elevator. If both boosters didn't have
identical power up curves. tilt - boom.
I was allergic to LOX. That's what I told my boss. We were still learning
how to handle the stuff and some of the construction folks couldn't 
understand
why they had to be so picky about keeping the LOX system clean. The idea
of blowing 22,500 Gal. of LO2 into a stainless steel balloon in 90 seconds
always struck me as a little bit crazy.
I got to see a SAC scramble at Walker AFB. Very impressive. The ride in the
last B-52 must have been a lot of fun, if you were drunk.

Cheers,
Bryan

OBTW - A Titan-1 blew a Vandenberg during a test. A buddy of mine lived on
Base and said there were small pieces of "stuff" everywhere.



drmayf wrote:
> Did you hear about the Titan that blew up in Arkansas?  One of the guys 
> who worked for me was on the MArtin investigation team... That caused a 
> 750 ton door to actually disappear, blown into very small fragments. 750 
> tons.  All because a tech in a space suit dropped a wrench that bounced 
> off the missile and cause a weeping leak in the oxydizer, ed fuming 
> nitric acid... I suspect you folk were very lucky to be alive. Although 
> the corporal was a small battlefield tactical weapon.
>
> mayf

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Tue Feb 26 12:03:16 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:03:16 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Firesuit vendor?
Message-ID: <E678EEB9-BB98-409E-AFDC-2BF68E8E3759@nancyandjon.org>

Okay, maybe I'll buy a firesuit that Nancy and I can wear for when  
someone offers us a ride.  I've got a line on a used -15 now -- and  
it'll probably be what we need.  But just in case, where's the place  
to shop for a used suit?  eBay?  Firesuits-R-us?  I'll post a  
"wanted" on landracing.com, but thought I'd put out a feeler here,  
too.  Used is fine -- don't need to buy brand new -- but if I did,  
where's the place to shop for new?

Thanks.

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Feb 26 12:30:31 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:30:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] MI venue?
In-Reply-To: <E678EEB9-BB98-409E-AFDC-2BF68E8E3759@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16A5C@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Ocsoda MI - Wurtsmith Air Base. (See Feb "Car and Driver" 0-200-0
article - interesting!)

Sounds like enough pavement to run some time trials ( mile and
shutdown).

Can we go play there?

David, still chasing parts . . .

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Jon Wennerberg
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:03 PM
To: Land Speed Digest
Subject: [Land-speed] Firesuit vendor?

Okay, maybe I'll buy a firesuit that Nancy and I can wear for when
someone offers us a ride.  I've got a line on a used -15 now -- and
it'll probably be what we need.  But just in case, where's the place
to shop for a used suit?  eBay?  Firesuits-R-us?  I'll post a
"wanted" on landracing.com, but thought I'd put out a feeler here,
too.  Used is fine -- don't need to buy brand new -- but if I did,
where's the place to shop for new?

Thanks.

Jon , tall guy with moustache
and two 200 MPH Club hats
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From mactem at mebtel.net  Tue Feb 26 15:02:09 2008
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:02:09 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed]  Firesuit vendor?
Message-ID: <007c01c878c3$3beb2080$0300a8c0@brightstar>

Jon, Try this site.
http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/st3nosfi3cus2.html  Can't wait
to see you and Nancy in the same suit!
David

From saltrcr at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 16:22:30 2008
From: saltrcr at yahoo.com (gene barbee)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:22:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Firesuit vendor?
In-Reply-To: <E678EEB9-BB98-409E-AFDC-2BF68E8E3759@nancyandjon.org>
Message-ID: <299013.11720.qm@web36807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

      I have a mint  20 suit for someone  @ 6'2" 185
lbs  one piece    Gene  -B 
--- Jon Wennerberg <jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org>
wrote:

> Okay, maybe I'll buy a firesuit that Nancy and I can
> wear for when  
> someone offers us a ride.  

From saltfevr at q.com  Tue Feb 26 19:39:25 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (TOM M SHANNON)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:39:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) March Meet  AAFD
Message-ID: <BAY122-W33270B4DA30AD63937AB1BC91A0@phx.gbl>

Found this site to help cheer on your favorite Nostalgia Top Fueler Drivers if
you can't attend the 50th, March Meet, March 5-7,2008. 30 funnys expected,plus
25 Top Fuel. Go Jack Harris and Rick White!
http://www.allamericanfueldragsters.com
Post your comments on their fan forum.Tom ShannonMagna, Utah

From saltfevr at q.com  Tue Feb 26 19:44:07 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (TOM M SHANNON)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:44:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) March Meet  AAFD
Message-ID: <BAY122-W21CF22BE93DDB23F08A084C91A0@phx.gbl>

Forgot to also say good luck to Utahs 'Sudden Impact' and driver,Scott
Mason!Tom ShannonMagna, Utah


From: saltfevr at q.comTo: land-speed at autox.team.netSubject: (non lsr) March Meet
AAFDDate: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:39:25 -0700


Found this site to help cheer on your favorite Nostalgia Top Fueler Drivers if
you can't attend the 50th, March Meet, March 5-7,2008. 30 funnys expected,plus
25 Top Fuel. Go Jack Harris and Rick White!
http://www.allamericanfueldragsters.comPost your comments on their fan
forum.Tom ShannonMagna, Utah

From rbuck at xmission.com  Wed Feb 27 14:32:35 2008
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:32:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Boyd Coddington dies at 63
Message-ID: <E1JUTth-0003rR-4U@mgr1.xmission.com>

Boyd Coddington dies at age 63 at 6:30 am Pacific time Feb 27, 2008 
in a hospital in Whittier, Ca.  In the news story in the url below, a 
spokeswoman at his company would not disclose the cause of death.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/02/27/state/n103701S80.DTL&type=health

Ray the Rat

From RACE427 at aol.com  Wed Feb 27 15:28:37 2008
From: RACE427 at aol.com (RACE427 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:28:37 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Boyd Coddington dies at 63
Message-ID: <c17.2e1a2bbe.34f73e15@aol.com>

This man was a genious who had alot of vision for the future  of hot rods.




**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.      
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Feb 27 16:13:04 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:13:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Boyd Coddington died!
Message-ID: <178A1634-BD70-412E-AF8A-C9B5A147267B@comcast.net>

Check his name under Google, apparently he died today.

Wes

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Feb 27 16:15:56 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:15:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: RIP Buddy Miles RIP  - for music fasns
References: <BAY104-DAV31BB5A6F5C665ECDB756DDF1A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1E947BA4-A867-4196-A52B-7480C0C3510E@comcast.net>

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "JAN O HYDE" <JANOHYDE at msn.com>
> Date: February 27, 2008 2:03:27 PM MST
> To: "Bill Crismon" <wrcrismon at msn.com>, "Brent Faulkner" <bwf40 at yahoo.com 
> >, "Campbell" <globob61 at msn.com>, "Dave Asman"  
> <klezbros at klezbros.com>, "David Halliday" <lonepeaksound at yahoo.com>,  
> "Denson Angulo" <densonbass at yahoo.com>, "gregoryfloor" <gregoryfloor at comcast.net 
> >, "Henry Wolking" <Henry.Wolking at music.utah.edu>, "herschelbullen" <herschelbullen at netscape.net 
> >, "Jay Lawrence" <drummerjl at networld.com>, "Jerry Floor" <jerry.floor at comcast.net 
> >, "Kelly Wallis" <kelly.wallis at att.net>, "Kenny Breinholt" <kenbreinholt at earthlink.net 
> >, "keven johansen" <kevenwjohansen at mac.com>, "Laurence Yorgason" <laurenceyorgason at comcast.net 
> >, "Mel Telford" <mrtelford at cableone.net>, "Andrew Fockel" <afockel at hotmail.com 
> >, "Nate Botts" <nbotts at gmail.com>, "Paul Frederick" <soltonman at yahoo.com 
> >, "Ray Smith" <ray_smith at byu.edu>, "Robert Walzel" <robert.walzel at music.utah.edu 
> >, "Steve Call" <stevecall at byu.edu>, "Vince Frates" <vfrates at comcast.net 
> >, "Warren Trulson" <wtrulson at gmail.com>, "Wayne Christianson" <dim71 at juno.com 
> >, "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Will Lovell" <will_lovell3 at hotmail.com 
> >, "Wilson Brown" <wilsoncbrown at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Fw: RIP Buddy Miles RIP
>
> From a friend...
>
> JO
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Klein
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 1:44 PM
> Subject: RIP Buddy Miles RIP
>
> > Passed away yesterday. More info. At his myspace. Besides being a
> > great
> > drummer, he was an awesome singer as well. Ck. Him out singing Neil
> > Young's "Down by the River" or "Them Changes". And let's not forget
> > his
> > time with Jimi and a cd he did with Carlos Santana. Peace be with  
> you
> > Buddy.

From rbuck at xmission.com  Wed Feb 27 16:29:36 2008
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:29:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Boyd Coddington died!
In-Reply-To: <178A1634-BD70-412E-AF8A-C9B5A147267B@comcast.net>
References: <178A1634-BD70-412E-AF8A-C9B5A147267B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <E1JUVip-00031J-40@mgr1.xmission.com>

Seems he was hospitalized a couple of weeks ago:
http://www.pr-usa.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63276&Itemid=9

"The legendary hot rod designer and fabricator who just completed a 
million-dollar, hand-built Delehaye inspired hot rod fell ill shortly 
after the holidays.

According to his wife Jo Coddington, Boyd was rushed to the hospital 
after a fall at his home. Boyd Coddington, the multi-award winning 
designer, fabricator and alumni of the Hot Rod Hall of Fame, was 
admitted for observation and then released. Several days later, Boyd 
complained of continued complications and was re-admitted to a 
hospital near his Southern California home. There doctors made a 
diagnosis and he was rushed to surgrey.

"We are happy to report that Boyd is recovering and doing very well, 
he is expected to go home next week. Boyd and I would like to thank 
all of the people who have sent their well wishes and support!", 
stated Jo Coddington."


At 04:13 PM 2/27/2008, Wester Potter wrote:
>Check his name under Google, apparently he died today.
>
>Wes

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Thu Feb 28 13:27:56 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:27:56 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] M/T tires
Message-ID: <000801c87a48$6b0ff120$6501a8c0@Rick>

For sale, 3 brand new M/T 24.5X7.50 - 16 tires
Stored in black plastic bags in cool dark place (basement).
Price 720  each  Just what I paid plus shipping.
(What was I thinking?)

Rick

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Feb 28 13:37:28 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:37:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] ECTA
Message-ID: <005401c87a49$bc8dccb0$6501a8c0@Glens>

I just received my ECTA rule book. Lots of changes and upgrades. Great job for
everyone's time and effort.
They want to assure the rules comply with the SCTA-BNI for those that run the
Bonneville Venue. ECTA is growing and has made upgrades to the Maxton mile as
well.
Be sure to thank them for the hard work they have put in during the off
season.
Glen

From david_dymaxion at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 13:50:04 2008
From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com (David Dymaxion)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:50:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Boyd Coddington Land Speed History
Message-ID: <613045.79257.qm@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Here is a story about Boyd Coddington getting his motorhome stuck on the Salt Flats:

http://www.saltflats.com/stuck.htm





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From john.szalay at att.net  Thu Feb 28 13:52:31 2008
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:52:31 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Boyd Coddington  Passes
Message-ID: <022820082052.17627.47C71F0F000BB973000044DB22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

Car-building legend Boyd Coddington, whose testosterone-injected cable TV reality show "American Hot Rod" introduced the nation to the West Coast hot rod guru, has died.
 He was 63.
 Boyd Coddington won numerous awards for his creative car customizing designs.
 Coddington died Wednesday at Presbyterian Intercommunity Hospital in suburban Whittier. His La Habra office spokeswoman Amanda Curry wouldn't disclose the cause of death.

From dlodom at charter.net  Fri Feb 29 15:01:45 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:01:45 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] OT  Looking for Jim Dincau address
Message-ID: <47C880C9.8030106@charter.net>

Sorry but I lost Jims email address.  His High school is looking for him 
for his 50th class reunion.
Doug Odom in big ditch, waiting for my liner to get back from Australia.