From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Dec  1 10:34:51 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 09:34:51 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Rule Changes for 2009?
Message-ID: <4934203B.50906@mayfco.com>

Anyone know what rules changes are being considered for 2009?  Are they 
posted anywhere just so I can get a look at them?

mayf

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Dec  1 10:37:13 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:37:13 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Rule Changes for 2009?
In-Reply-To: <4934203B.50906@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20081201123713.2G96X.334270.imail@fed1rmwml39>

SCTA home page lowere seft side 2009 Rules



----

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Dec  1 11:12:56 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:12:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Rule Changes for 2009?
References: <20081201123713.2G96X.334270.imail@fed1rmwml39>
Message-ID: <13EAE734B3964A278969A6349AAC5EEC@Glens>

Hi Mayf

Sunbeam sports cars will be disallowed in 2009. lol

Glen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: "AA list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Rule Changes for 2009?


> SCTA home page lowere seft side 2009 Rules
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>

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From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Dec  1 11:35:02 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:35:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Rule Changes for 2009?
In-Reply-To: <13EAE734B3964A278969A6349AAC5EEC@Glens>
Message-ID: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB016CE090@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

It's a toaster, a Sunbeam toaster.

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glen Barrett
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:13 AM
To: sparky.2211 at cox.net; drmayf at mayfco.com
Cc: AA list
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Rule Changes for 2009?

Hi Mayf

Sunbeam sports cars will be disallowed in 2009. lol

Glen

----- Original Message -----
From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: "AA list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Rule Changes for 2009?


> SCTA home page lowere seft side 2009 Rules
>
>
>
> ----
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>

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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Dec  1 14:44:28 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:44:28 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Rule Changes for 2009?
In-Reply-To: <13EAE734B3964A278969A6349AAC5EEC@Glens>
References: <20081201123713.2G96X.334270.imail@fed1rmwml39>
	<13EAE734B3964A278969A6349AAC5EEC@Glens>
Message-ID: <49345ABC.2000405@mayfco.com>

Aww heck, that is ok. Since Sunbeam actually calls it a roadster, then I 
will just enter it in at least one of the 250 classes for roadsters.

mayf
Glen Barrett wrote:

> Hi Mayf
>
> Sunbeam sports cars will be disallowed in 2009. lol
>
> Glen
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> Cc: "AA list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Rule Changes for 2009?
>
>
>> SCTA home page lowere seft side 2009 Rules
>>
>>
>>
>> ----
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Dec  1 16:44:29 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:44:29 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] SALT---LSR TV coverage
Message-ID: <20081201184429.TZJ7A.341728.imail@fed1rmwml39>

I recieved a call today from Lawrece---the dir. of a Modern Marvels program on Salt  he told me that the Salt Flat sequence made it in---will air tonight on the History Channel 8:00 PM here in Phoenix.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Dec  1 20:34:08 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:34:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Bloodhound SSC USA Desert Sites
Message-ID: <410745E6-151B-4C6D-9FFC-B5A7199CB6F2@comcast.net>

Latest on the next attempt.

Wes


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
> Date: December 1, 2008 3:18:03 PM MST
> To: <wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Stieg Svard" <axel_rod at msn.com>, <RGisseman at slco.org 
> >, "Jon Wennerberg" <jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org>, <hcgarage at comcast.net 
> >, "George C" <ElMGeo at aol.com>, <pinkelko at yahoo.com>, "'Barrie  
> Strachan'" <dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Robert Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com>
> Subject: Bloodhound SSC USA Desert Sites
>
> Site investigation for Andy's latest:
>
>
> http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/adventure/the_desert/us_survey_trip.cfm

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Dec  1 20:36:29 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:36:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Steam LSR
Message-ID: <D339C3AF-CF9A-4FF0-9BB5-9AC2325AC460@comcast.net>

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
> Date: December 1, 2008 3:13:06 PM MST
> To: <win359 at yahoo.com>, <wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Stieg Svard" <axel_rod at msn.com 
> >, "Steve Johnson" <gsjohnson2003 at yahoo.com>,  
> <ihavnus4u at earthlink.net>, <RGisseman at slco.org>, "Jon Wennerberg" <jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org 
> >, <hcgarage at comcast.net>, "Gary Donahoe" <gdonahoe at earthlink.com>,  
> "George C" <ElMGeo at aol.com>, <pinkelko at yahoo.com>, "'Barrie  
> Strachan'" <dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Robert Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com>
> Subject: Steam LSR
>
> http://www.steamcar.co.uk/

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Dec  1 20:50:27 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:50:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Modern Marvels: Salt airing 12/1, tonight!
References: <BCDAE9D8-96DB-4D9E-A906-6E3FEC7833FD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <861C0084-F4F5-462C-848E-6B4F4F99CCC6@comcast.net>

The salt flats portion is toward the end of the show.

Wes


>
> "Salt"  a program on the History Channel airs tonight.  Possibly
> 8:00 Eastern time, check your local listings.  Part was filmed at
> World of Speed this last September.
>
> For viewers in the Salt Lake City area:  The History channel, cable
> channel 10 on Comcast, will show the program from 9:00 to 10:00
> tonight.  Set your VCR.
>
> Please notify anyone you know where I don't have their email
> addresses or telephone numbers.
>
> Wes
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: "Lawrence Givens" <lawrenceg at actualprod.com>
>> Date: December 1, 2008 11:06:39 AM MST
>>
>> Subject: Modern Marvels: Salt airing 12/1, tonight!
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I attempted to send out an email before the holiday, but it
>> unfortunately did not go through.  I wanted to let you all know
>> that the program will be airing tonight on History.  From the
>> schedule I saw, it will be airing at 8PM and 12AM, but please check
>> your local listings to be sure.
>>
>> Thank you, once again, for all of your participation and help with
>> the program.  Weve all worked hard on it and think it turned out
>> to be a good show.  Hopefully you will agree.  If you have any
>> questions, feel free to ask.  The program will most likely re-air,
>> however, the channel does not inform me when that will be, so keep
>> an eye out on the schedule.  If I check the schedule and notice an
>> upcoming airing, I will let you know.
>>
>> Of course, feel free to forward on this info to any and everyone
>> you can!
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Lawrence Givens III
>> Producer
>> Actuality Productions
>> 20335 Ventura Blvd., Ste. 300
>> Woodland Hills, CA  91364
>> 818.444.5000 ext. 263
>> 818.444.5001 (Fax)

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Mon Dec  1 23:12:22 2008
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:12:22 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Modern Marvels: Salt airing 12/1,  tonight!
In-Reply-To: <861C0084-F4F5-462C-848E-6B4F4F99CCC6@comcast.net>
References: <BCDAE9D8-96DB-4D9E-A906-6E3FEC7833FD@comcast.net>
	<861C0084-F4F5-462C-848E-6B4F4F99CCC6@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5f048ef70812012212h34c907a1l4b22daccc3a4e69e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net>wrote:

> The salt flats portion is toward the end of the show.
>
> Wes
>
>
> >
> > "Salt"  a program on the History Channel airs tonight.  Possibly
> > 8:00 Eastern time, check your local listings.  Part was filmed at
> > World of Speed this last September.
> >
> > For viewers in the Salt Lake City area:  The History channel, cable
> > channel 10 on Comcast, will show the program from 9:00 to 10:00
> > tonight.  Set your VCR.
>

Who has VCRs anymore? Fortunately I already had Modern Marvels set to record
on my DVR, or I would have missed this (got the email, checked my listings,
and it had already recorded. Gotta love technology!)

-- 
~Jon

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Tue Dec  2 07:06:41 2008
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:06:41 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Modern Marvels: Salt airing 12/1,   tonight!
In-Reply-To: <5f048ef70812012212h34c907a1l4b22daccc3a4e69e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BCDAE9D8-96DB-4D9E-A906-6E3FEC7833FD@comcast.net><861C0084-F4F5-462C-848E-6B4F4F99CCC6@comcast.net>
	<5f048ef70812012212h34c907a1l4b22daccc3a4e69e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B54DF82@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Jon,
Gotta remember Flatheads still run on the salt, Wes's VCR is likey a
Betamax....:-)

Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:12 AM
To: LandSpeed
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fwd: Modern Marvels: Salt airing 12/1,
tonight!

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Wester Potter
<wester6935 at comcast.net>wrote:

> The salt flats portion is toward the end of the show.
>
> Wes
>
>
> >
> > "Salt"  a program on the History Channel airs tonight.  Possibly
> > 8:00 Eastern time, check your local listings.  Part was filmed at
> > World of Speed this last September.
> >
> > For viewers in the Salt Lake City area:  The History channel, cable
> > channel 10 on Comcast, will show the program from 9:00 to 10:00
> > tonight.  Set your VCR.
>

Who has VCRs anymore? Fortunately I already had Modern Marvels set to
record on my DVR, or I would have missed this (got the email, checked my
listings, and it had already recorded. Gotta love technology!)

--
~Jon

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Dec  2 07:31:50 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 07:31:50 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Modern Marvels: Salt airing 12/1, tonight!
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B54DF82@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
References: <BCDAE9D8-96DB-4D9E-A906-6E3FEC7833FD@comcast.net><861C0084-F4F5-462C-848E-6B4F4F99CCC6@comcast.net>
	<5f048ef70812012212h34c907a1l4b22daccc3a4e69e@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B54DF82@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <C78A7367-EC6C-4101-9825-D7ADC69BC04C@comcast.net>

Yeah ... I can record a program on the tivo ... if my daughter tells
me what to do.  What I want to do now is save it so I can pass it
along to someone else.  My VCR still works and I'm not too
proud to use it.  AND! I have a photo I took over 50 years ago
on the salt of the bed of a pickup carrying two flathead motors
with a sign on the back window:
"GOD BLESS THE FLATHEADS"!

Speaking about the SALT program, there was a nice clip featuring
Sparky Smith, comments from Rex Svoboda about going over
200 on the salt and a shot of the 'Tom Thumb Special" going
down the track among others.

Wes

On Dec 2, 2008, at 7:06 AM, MEIERLE Mike wrote:

> Jon,
> Gotta remember Flatheads still run on the salt, Wes's VCR is likey a
> Betamax....:-)
>
> Mike Meierle
> #847 F/P/MP
> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
> ECTA Record Holder
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jonathan
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:12 AM
> To: LandSpeed
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fwd: Modern Marvels: Salt airing 12/1,
> tonight!
>
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Wester Potter
> <wester6935 at comcast.net>wrote:
>
>> The salt flats portion is toward the end of the show.
>>
>> Wes
>>
>>
>>>
>>> "Salt"  a program on the History Channel airs tonight.  Possibly
>>> 8:00 Eastern time, check your local listings.  Part was filmed at
>>> World of Speed this last September.
>>>
>>> For viewers in the Salt Lake City area:  The History channel, cable
>>> channel 10 on Comcast, will show the program from 9:00 to 10:00
>>> tonight.  Set your VCR.
>>
>
> Who has VCRs anymore? Fortunately I already had Modern Marvels set to
> record on my DVR, or I would have missed this (got the email,  
> checked my
> listings, and it had already recorded. Gotta love technology!)
>
> --
> ~Jon
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Tue Dec  2 11:28:43 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:28:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Bloodhound SSC USA Desert Sites
In-Reply-To: <410745E6-151B-4C6D-9FFC-B5A7199CB6F2@comcast.net>
References: <410745E6-151B-4C6D-9FFC-B5A7199CB6F2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <723C9EF220184EB3AA8AEF8C7AA2D7E3@DBTech>

"...with Mrs. Green..." did Andy get married? To Sophie?

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wester Potter
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:34 PM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Bloodhound SSC USA Desert Sites

Latest on the next attempt.

Wes


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
> Date: December 1, 2008 3:18:03 PM MST
> To: <wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Stieg Svard" <axel_rod at msn.com>,
<RGisseman at slco.org 
> >, "Jon Wennerberg" <jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org>, <hcgarage at comcast.net

> >, "George C" <ElMGeo at aol.com>, <pinkelko at yahoo.com>, "'Barrie  
> Strachan'" <dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Robert Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com>
> Subject: Bloodhound SSC USA Desert Sites
>
> Site investigation for Andy's latest:
>
>
> http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/adventure/the_desert/us_survey_trip.cfm
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kidavis at beckman.com  Tue Dec  2 14:58:05 2008
From: kidavis at beckman.com (kidavis at beckman.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:58:05 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
Message-ID: <OFA4A8A215.C3B1D3E8-ON88257513.00781E85-88257513.0078AC88@beckman.com>

Hi,

I just received this email from a friend in New Zealand.
Looks like the Aussies could use some help. If you would
like me to email the mentioned letter, please contact me off list.

Cheers,
Karen Davis
1174 D/GR

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Barb Sundgren 
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:00 PM
Subject: DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!


 
Hi Everyone
 
This is really important - please do not delete this. Please read and act 
- it must be acted on now otherwise this motorsport could be lost 
forever!!
 
This email has come from my brother in aussie who has raced on the salt 
Lake Gardiner in Australia (yes there is another one apart from 
Bonneville). 
Long story short - The DLRA could lose racing on the lake due to an 
American mining firm that was drilling on the lake without Aboriginal 
permission. 
For those who don't know,  this lake is protected by them and is a 
reserve. They are very strict as to who is allowed on the lake etc you 
have to have
their permission - DLRA has had permission since 1990.
The Aboriginals have now said that no one is allowed on the lake, 
therefore the March speedweek at Lake Gardiner is on hold and any future 
speedweeks
may be lost forever!!! 
Please print out the attached letter sign and post it to Australia to help 
support the Dry Lake Racers - before their sport disappears!!!!!
 
Please email this to all your petrolhead mates, car clubs, dragracers, car 
lovers - anyone and get in behind these guys - this may be their only 
chance to fix this! 
If you want to know more then email Bob Ellis 
cambridgemotorsport at bigpond.com and sure he can give you more details
 
Thanks & Cheers
John Ellis
DLRA Member
NZHRA Member

The server  made the following annotations                           

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This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of Beckman Coulter, Inc.  It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute or use this message or any part thereof.  If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.

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From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Dec  2 14:59:07 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:59:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Chat line
Message-ID: <9C3DDB52E9F94632B11D0EC9F6519BE0@Glens>

It's Tuesday night chat tonight at 7:00 mountain time on www.landracing.com
Hope you can join us.

Glen

--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 5.7 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 2297 of my spam emails to date.
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From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  2 15:13:24 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:13:24 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
Message-ID: <25924613.1228256005112.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Damn American...........Taking from the natives again...

 
>American mining firm that was drilling on the lake without Aboriginal 
>permission. 

From saltfevr at q.com  Tue Dec  2 15:37:41 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:37:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona
Message-ID: <BAY122-W377AC394425514CCD1DD77C9000@phx.gbl>

Ed Van Scoy and other Valley of the Sun folks: located in Gilbert ,AZ Ed!!
Whats the scoop? legit or another craigs list scam? For sale since Nov 18th?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/924273457.html

Guys on the yahoo, gasser forum are wonderin?if link doesn't fire, go to
craigs list and put 1940 Willys in search.Tom ShannonMagna, Utah

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Dec  2 16:16:46 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:16:46 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona
Message-ID: <W59719862976111228259806@webmail12>

Hmmmmm..... All I can say is nobody I know owns it. Will make a great
Gasser!!
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Shannon [mailto:saltfevr at q.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 03:37 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona

Ed Van Scoy and other Valley of the Sun folks: located in Gilbert ,AZ Ed!!
Whats the scoop? legit or another craigs list scam? For sale since Nov 18th?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/924273457.html Guys on the yahoo, gasser
forum are wonderin?if link doesn't fire, go to craigs list and put 1940 Willys
in search.Tom ShannonMagna, Utah
_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed as
ed at vetteracing.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Tue Dec  2 16:19:57 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:19:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona
In-Reply-To: <W59719862976111228259806@webmail12>
References: <W59719862976111228259806@webmail12>
Message-ID: <C7C817F43AEC4881BA68724CE91D759B@DBTech>

It looks like a typical Gilbert garage-- maybe it is legit.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Van Scoy
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:17 PM
To: Tom Shannon; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona

Hmmmmm..... All I can say is nobody I know owns it. Will make a great
Gasser!!
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Shannon [mailto:saltfevr at q.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 03:37 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona

Ed Van Scoy and other Valley of the Sun folks: located in Gilbert ,AZ Ed!!
Whats the scoop? legit or another craigs list scam? For sale since Nov 18th?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/924273457.html Guys on the yahoo,
gasser
forum are wonderin?if link doesn't fire, go to craigs list and put 1940
Willys
in search.Tom ShannonMagna, Utah
_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html Land-speed mailing list You are subscribed
as
ed at vetteracing.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Dec  2 18:45:38 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:45:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
Message-ID: <E7639556-893F-47E0-89FE-ECC521E648F5@comcast.net>

The business of NASCAR.

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60717

From saltfevr at q.com  Tue Dec  2 19:25:27 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:25:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
In-Reply-To: <E7639556-893F-47E0-89FE-ECC521E648F5@comcast.net>
References: <E7639556-893F-47E0-89FE-ECC521E648F5@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W247946A825F5448A372F7AC9030@phx.gbl>

Wester;

Thanks for the link. A great read! But what would Smokey say?? uh um... Keep
it clean .LOL

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah> From: wester6935 at comcast.net> To: land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:45:38 -0700> Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the
last ten years.> > The business of NASCAR.> >
http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60717>
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are
subscribed as saltfevr at q.com> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Dec  2 19:54:08 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:54:08 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
In-Reply-To: <25924613.1228256005112.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa
	.earthlink.net>
References: <25924613.1228256005112.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20081203025411.ECEEC187922@autox.team.net>

Drilling???? for what? Maybe test holes to see if a business effort 
is warranted? I'm sure that they just got off the boat and started 
drilling without Australian government knowledge. I actually have no 
idea.......does anybody?

Is this serious? Who is the company? Do the Aborigines have cops? Why 
should we help? Need some more info.



At 02:13 PM 12/2/2008, James Tone wrote:
>Damn American...........Taking from the natives again...
>
>
> >American mining firm that was drilling on the lake without Aboriginal
> >permission.

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Dec  2 19:54:08 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:54:08 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
In-Reply-To: <25924613.1228256005112.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa
	.earthlink.net>
References: <25924613.1228256005112.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20081203025411.EF9D218792E@autox.team.net>

Drilling???? for what? Maybe test holes to see if a business effort 
is warranted? I'm sure that they just got off the boat and started 
drilling without Australian government knowledge. I actually have no 
idea.......does anybody?

Is this serious? Who is the company? Do the Aborigines have cops? Why 
should we help? Need some more info.



At 02:13 PM 12/2/2008, James Tone wrote:
>Damn American...........Taking from the natives again...
>
>
> >American mining firm that was drilling on the lake without Aboriginal
> >permission.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Dec  2 20:08:19 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:08:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
In-Reply-To: <20081203025411.ECEEC187922@autox.team.net>
References: <25924613.1228256005112.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<20081203025411.ECEEC187922@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <D12A4DD2-AABB-4E86-998F-F770A1240A61@comcast.net>

They must have a comparable government agency to the BLM.

Wes

On Dec 2, 2008, at 7:54 PM, Skip Higginbotham wrote:

> Drilling???? for what? Maybe test holes to see if a business effort  
> is warranted? I'm sure that they just got off the boat and started  
> drilling without Australian government knowledge. I actually have no  
> idea.......does anybody?
>
> Is this serious? Who is the company? Do the Aborigines have cops?  
> Why should we help? Need some more info.
>
>
>
> At 02:13 PM 12/2/2008, James Tone wrote:
>> Damn American...........Taking from the natives again...
>>
>>
>> >American mining firm that was drilling on the lake without  
>> Aboriginal
>> >permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 00:22:27 2008
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jonathan)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 23:22:27 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Modern Marvels: Salt airing 12/1,  tonight!
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B54DF82@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
References: <BCDAE9D8-96DB-4D9E-A906-6E3FEC7833FD@comcast.net>
	<861C0084-F4F5-462C-848E-6B4F4F99CCC6@comcast.net>
	<5f048ef70812012212h34c907a1l4b22daccc3a4e69e@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B54DF82@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <5f048ef70812022322m20b57bcdi9f8a44e8304deadb@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, MEIERLE Mike
<Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
>
> Jon,
> Gotta remember Flatheads still run on the salt, Wes's VCR is likey a
> Betamax....:-)

I contend that if Betamax had won out over VHS, it would have lasted
longer before dvd was adapted.

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 6:21 AM, Adin, David <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org> wrote:
>Call me when you throw your carbs away . . .

Well, the carbs I would be throwing away would be worthless to you - a
couple 1bbls that came off an old F100 and have been living in a 5
gallon bucket (often full of water) in the back of said truck.


On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 6:31 AM, Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Yeah ... I can record a program on the tivo ... if my daughter tells
> me what to do.  What I want to do now is save it so I can pass it
> along to someone else.  My VCR still works and I'm not too
> proud to use it.  AND! I have a photo I took over 50 years ago
> on the salt of the bed of a pickup carrying two flathead motors
> with a sign on the back window:
> "GOD BLESS THE FLATHEADS"!

Flatheads are, for lack of a better word, badass. VCRs, not so much. I
still have mine hooked up. I use it to switch between the Cable Box
(UHF into the VHS on Channel 4) and my DVD player (line1) and Wii
(line2). I have a PS3, the VCR, and my DVR (which isn't a tivo,
exactly, but a more complex system (built from 2 PC computers) than
most consumers will ever want to deal with... fortunately for me, it
works better than a TiVo ever could, and is ever expandable.

I've never felt a TiVo was that complex, I figure, if you can program
a VCR (and it doesn't flash 12:00) then you can probably figure out
the TiVo. As for sharing with others... well, I would just burn to DVD
(which is a function of my DVR that the TiVo lacks) and in that case,
your VCR wins over the TiVo.

-- 
~Jon

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 00:24:11 2008
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jonathan)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 23:24:11 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Modern Marvels: Salt airing 12/1,  tonight!
In-Reply-To: <5f048ef70812022322m20b57bcdi9f8a44e8304deadb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BCDAE9D8-96DB-4D9E-A906-6E3FEC7833FD@comcast.net>
	<861C0084-F4F5-462C-848E-6B4F4F99CCC6@comcast.net>
	<5f048ef70812012212h34c907a1l4b22daccc3a4e69e@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B54DF82@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<5f048ef70812022322m20b57bcdi9f8a44e8304deadb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5f048ef70812022324p61ec926fo40a1d88c2df7a0a1@mail.gmail.com>

> still have mine hooked up. I use it to switch between the Cable Box
> (UHF into the VHS on Channel 4) and my DVD player (line1) and Wii
> (line2). I have a PS3, the VCR, and my DVR (which isn't a tivo,
> exactly, but a more complex system (built from 2 PC computers) than
> most consumers will ever want to deal with... fortunately for me, it
> works better than a TiVo ever could, and is ever expandable.

This was supposed to say I have the PS3, the VCR and the DVR hooked to the TV.

~Jon

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Dec  3 09:17:25 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:17:25 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
Message-ID: <20081203161727.CD6D718798D@autox.team.net>

Yes, I thought so too.....so why is somebody cluttering up the site 
in the name of racers? That's why all the questions. If anybody can 
answer them then fine. Until then....no donations! We should 
concentrate on "Save the Salt" anyway.




At 10:14 PM 12/2/2008, drmayf wrote:
>Skip, after I read the note, I was thinking that it was another of 
>those lets everybody mail someting letters. And the attachment was 
>gone... The thing they want us to fill out and mail in...
>
>mayf
>Skip Higginbotham wrote:
>
>>Drilling???? for what? Maybe test holes to see if a business effort 
>>is warranted? I'm sure that they just got off the boat and started 
>>drilling without Australian government knowledge. I actually have 
>>no idea.......does anybody?
>>
>>Is this serious? Who is the company? Do the Aborigines have cops? 
>>Why should we help? Need some more info.
>>
>>
>>
>>At 02:13 PM 12/2/2008, James Tone wrote:
>>
>>>Damn American...........Taking from the natives again...
>>>
>>>
>>> >American mining firm that was drilling on the lake without Aboriginal
>>> >permission.

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Dec  3 09:53:15 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:53:15 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
In-Reply-To: <E7639556-893F-47E0-89FE-ECC521E648F5@comcast.net>
References: <E7639556-893F-47E0-89FE-ECC521E648F5@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4D7113BFFC6846EF928D59E7786D4C9A@DBTech>

It looks like actual racing is just a sideline for NASCAR.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wester Potter
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 6:46 PM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.

The business of NASCAR.

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60717
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  3 10:12:24 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:12:24 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
In-Reply-To: <4D7113BFFC6846EF928D59E7786D4C9A@DBTech>
References: <E7639556-893F-47E0-89FE-ECC521E648F5@comcast.net>
	<4D7113BFFC6846EF928D59E7786D4C9A@DBTech>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W34C3FB811F220E74326406D9030@phx.gbl>

     ho hum ..........

   did anyone have any doubts ?

  NASCAR hasn't been about racing since, ... well, since Richard Petty quit
drivin'


    When was that ? -about 1980 ?  -and no, I wasn't a Petty fan
  It's ALL about the almighty GREEN FROG SKIN   AKA   "da Benjamins"

   If you want to see REAL "Racing"  go to your local DIRT Track.

   c heers, ' Dirt Track Doug '



-105 + miles south of the world famous 'Syracuse
Mile '
  -241.4  miles north of the Williams Grove Speedway pit entrance
  -2247  or so miles due east of the marvelous Bonneville Salt
Flats

but never more than a few feet from a cold one



> From: neil at dbelltech.com
> To: wester6935 at comcast.net; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:53:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
>
> It looks like actual racing is just a sideline for NASCAR.
>
> Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>


> -----Original Message-----

> From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wester Potter
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 6:46 PM
> To: LAND SPEED LIST

> Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
>
> The business of NASCAR.

_________________________________________________________________
You live life online. So we put Windows on the web.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Wed Dec  3 10:52:19 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:52:19 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
In-Reply-To: <4D7113BFFC6846EF928D59E7786D4C9A@DBTech>
References: <E7639556-893F-47E0-89FE-ECC521E648F5@comcast.net>
	<4D7113BFFC6846EF928D59E7786D4C9A@DBTech>
Message-ID: <78CD97820B5C459DB401F35B433466CC@DaveSatellite>

It is not racing it is entertainment... Just like the circus and the pro 
wrestling.. the only thing nascar is lacking is the dunking tank.. They 
already have a ringmaster side shows vendors souvenirs and they travel from 
time to time.. hey you can even go for an elephant ride if you want to count 
the chance to ride as a passenger in a race car as the same...
If you want closed circuit racing that is real go to a sprinter or a ALMS 
race... If you have ever seen McNish or Weaver drive a WSC or LeMans type 
car it will make nascar seem like closing time at Wal-Mart... Nascar is Iroc 
every too weeks ..yawn and sigh all at once..they need to rename 'Wind 
Tunnel' to 'Pie Hole' but hey I really don't have an opinion.. For brute 
speed you can't beat the salt and I know this will raise the hairs on the 
back of your neck.. it does not take all that much talent.. sure there are 
calculated risks but it is not like a 2.5 g turn with the Armco 8 inches 
away and the guy next to you the same at speed.. Most of those drivers have 
2 lights.. one to shift and another to say ride is over it broke.. They are 
just way too busy..LOL On the salt you get very little seat time to perform 
well and seat time is what makes talent and refines it. You just can not 
compare that to running a double 2 hour stint in a ALMS car pulling big g 
forces constantly.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: "'Wester Potter'" <wester6935 at comcast.net>; "'LAND SPEED LIST'" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.


> It looks like actual racing is just a sideline for NASCAR.
>
> Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

From kidavis at beckman.com  Wed Dec  3 11:07:58 2008
From: kidavis at beckman.com (kidavis at beckman.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:07:58 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
In-Reply-To: <20081203161727.CD6D718798D@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <OF5827C7F2.47112DD7-ON88257514.0062BE81-88257514.00639C65@beckman.com>

OK, so I goofed. Just trying to be helpful here. I know I'll never have an
opportunity to run DLRA, but I also know a few folks that have run there.
Besides, all of us are on a constant lookout for new places to run and
trying to protect those we already have.

It didn't occur to me to just copy & paste the letter into the email 
yesterday,
so here it is. I feel it is legitimate or I would not have posted it. Do 
with as
you see fit.

So sorry for "Cluttering up the Site in the Name of Racers."

Have a nice day,
Karen Davis
# 1174 D/GR


26th November,    2008 

Hon Jay Weatherill,
Minister for Aboriginal Affairs & Reconciliation,
G.P.O. Box 1047,
Adelaide    S.A.       5001


Dear Sir,

As a supporter and speed trial enthusiast I wish to demonstrate my support 
for
the Dry Lakes Racers Australia (DLRA) March Speed Trials.

It is an asset to the State of South Australia and is one of only two 
places in the
world (the other being Bonneville, Utah, USA) that is capable of holding 
such a
unique event.
This event has attracted an international following through numerous 
magazine
and newspaper reports since 1990 and the DLRA (organisers) have gained the
admiration and respect of all competitors and spectators who attend the 
event.

You must do all in your power to insure the successful continuation of 
this amazing event.


Yours faithfully,



The server  made the following annotations                           

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From NT788 at comcast.net  Wed Dec  3 11:09:58 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 18:09:58 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
Message-ID: <120320081809.4395.4936CB760005B20B0000112B2215561264C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

I watched A movie called Dirty Racing. About a circle track in some shut down car building city.It had all the "drama' as NASBUCK just cheaper. Check it out! Jack



 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
> It is not racing it is entertainment... Just like the circus and the pro 
> wrestling.. the only thing nascar is lacking is the dunking tank.. They 
> already have a ringmaster side shows vendors souvenirs and they travel from 
> time to time.. hey you can even go for an elephant ride if you want to count 
> the chance to ride as a passenger in a race car as the same...
> If you want closed circuit racing that is real go to a sprinter or a ALMS 
> race... If you have ever seen McNish or Weaver drive a WSC or LeMans type 
> car it will make nascar seem like closing time at Wal-Mart... Nascar is Iroc 
> every too weeks ..yawn and sigh all at once..they need to rename 'Wind 
> Tunnel' to 'Pie Hole' but hey I really don't have an opinion.. For brute 
> speed you can't beat the salt and I know this will raise the hairs on the 
> back of your neck.. it does not take all that much talent.. sure there are 
> calculated risks but it is not like a 2.5 g turn with the Armco 8 inches 
> away and the guy next to you the same at speed.. Most of those drivers have 
> 2 lights.. one to shift and another to say ride is over it broke.. They are 
> just way too busy..LOL On the salt you get very little seat time to perform 
> well and seat time is what makes talent and refines it. You just can not 
> compare that to running a double 2 hour stint in a ALMS car pulling big g 
> forces constantly.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
> To: "'Wester Potter'" <wester6935 at comcast.net>; "'LAND SPEED LIST'" 
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
> 
> 
> > It looks like actual racing is just a sideline for NASCAR.
> >
> > Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at adelphia.net  Wed Dec  3 11:24:33 2008
From: kturk at adelphia.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:24:33 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
References: <OF5827C7F2.47112DD7-ON88257514.0062BE81-88257514.00639C65@beckman.com>
Message-ID: <001801c95574$64343480$6500a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Karen... all your comments are valid...  as are Skip's... the question is 
why instantly give way to the Abbo's?

I have raced there...and the Greenies have taken over that country and the 
mentality is so damn wrong it defies discription...  ( not the average 
Aussie... just the damn greenies )... it's like nobody outside the green 
part cares about the environment...  complete idiots... and unfortunately 
they represent a full 1/3 of the voting public..

Now Do I care about Lake Gairdner and the DRLA... absolutely... great group 
of folks... but what are we as "American's" going to do once "we" have 
already been found to be at Fault...

Just a bunch of Wankers if you ask me...

Keith 

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Wed Dec  3 11:26:28 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:26:28 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
Message-ID: <3795166.1228328788278.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>> > It looks like actual racing is just a sideline for NASCAR.

Ever since they needed to make the "SHOW" the real racing quit. You can tell by the way NASCAR reps speak that the only thing is the the $$$ generated. 

How many have you have noticed the empty seats.  Race fans have started to leave with the inflated ticket prices and with this economy more will follow. Fans will still go but maybe to only 1 or 2 a year instead of everyone they went to years ago. If they ever move to "Pay for View" they wil loose another "fan"............(don't think they aren't concidering it)

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Wed Dec  3 11:28:26 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:28:26 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
Message-ID: <22001387.1228328906614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The Greenies will get El Mirage some day too. I just hope it's not in my lifetime.

>
and the Greenies have taken over that country and the 
>mentality is so damn wrong it defies discription...  

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Dec  3 11:49:19 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:49:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
In-Reply-To: <78CD97820B5C459DB401F35B433466CC@DaveSatellite>
References: <E7639556-893F-47E0-89FE-ECC521E648F5@comcast.net>
	<4D7113BFFC6846EF928D59E7786D4C9A@DBTech>
	<78CD97820B5C459DB401F35B433466CC@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <37B19709-4289-4C7A-9A02-0BDCECC4A9C2@comcast.net>

Dave,

We are lucky here in Salt Lake City to have the Miller Motorsports  
Park just 30 miles away.
The ALMS is just one of the full schedule of races (see: http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/events.php) 
  and we have yet to see the NASCAR circus.
With Bonneville ninety minutes away and the Rocky Mountain Raceway for  
drag racing and circle track stuff between town and the MMP we are
very fortunate to have some of the very best of racing just minutes  
away.

Wes

On Dec 3, 2008, at 10:52 AM, Dave Dahlgren wrote:

> It is not racing it is entertainment... Just like the circus and the  
> pro wrestling.. the only thing nascar is lacking is the dunking  
> tank.. They already have a ringmaster side shows vendors souvenirs  
> and they travel from time to time.. hey you can even go for an  
> elephant ride if you want to count the chance to ride as a passenger  
> in a race car as the same...
> If you want closed circuit racing that is real go to a sprinter or a  
> ALMS race... If you have ever seen McNish or Weaver drive a WSC or  
> LeMans type car it will make nascar seem like closing time at Wal- 
> Mart... Nascar is Iroc every too weeks ..yawn and sigh all at  
> once..they need to rename 'Wind Tunnel' to 'Pie Hole' but hey I  
> really don't have an opinion.. For brute speed you can't beat the  
> salt and I know this will raise the hairs on the back of your neck..  
> it does not take all that much talent.. sure there are calculated  
> risks but it is not like a 2.5 g turn with the Armco 8 inches away  
> and the guy next to you the same at speed.. Most of those drivers  
> have 2 lights.. one to shift and another to say ride is over it  
> broke.. They are just way too busy..LOL On the salt you get very  
> little seat time to perform well and seat time is what makes talent  
> and refines it. You just can not compare that to running a double 2  
> hour stint in a ALMS car pulling big g forces constantly.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
> To: "'Wester Potter'" <wester6935 at comcast.net>; "'LAND SPEED LIST'" <land-speed at autox.team.net 
> >
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Big change in the last ten years.
>
>
>> It looks like actual racing is just a sideline for NASCAR.
>>
>> Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Dec  3 12:22:44 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:22:44 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Green El Mirage -- was DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
References: <22001387.1228328906614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <004401c9557c$8985e910$6501a8c0@S>

El Mirage and the greens



JD -- 

I used to be a much stronger supporter of the "green" position than I am
today.  I still think there are a lot of good things we can do to conserve
and preserve our environment and the natural assets of our planet.  But I am
sick and tired of the ignorance, illogic and downright fraud being pushed by
so called environmentalists that are most interested in making a good living
from various endowments that pay their salaries as leaders of this, that or
the other advocacy group.



We need to push back with real facts, not emotion stirring hyperbole and
falsehoods.  The human race is not a pathological infestation of this
planet.  In a universe with millions of similar planets (do the math, now)
the one we live about is really about one thing, Humanity.  Certainly we
need all the other animals, plants and ecosystems and do well to preserve
them for various good reasons.  But they are all secondary.  People come
first.



El Mirage is a tiny piece of the millions of acres of similar desert
landscape in California.  It serves a very useful social purpose of
providing an outdoor recreation site for a lot of our citizens.  It is
currently managed responsibly and produces negligible impact on the
surrounding natural environment.  The dry lake and surrounding trails
provide an operational and testing ground for the efforts of hundreds of
responsible hobbyists.  These folks are some of the last remnants of the
slowly dying US manufacturing technology.  We should be doing everything we
can to encourage them rather than locking the gates to one of the few places
they can enjoy the fruits of their creativity.



Close El Mirage?  What are they trying to do?  Stop scaring a few
jackrabbits?   Put us all in a safe little sedentary cocoon where we'd all
die from heart disease and diabetes by eating ourselves to death?  Improve
property values for developers who would cover the entire desert with urban
sprawl and suck up all the ground water if they could?



Not in my lifetime either!! And I'd bet a lot of us would be ready to fight
the "E-parasites".

Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at adelphia.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>;
"SkipHigginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>;
<kidavis at beckman.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!


> The Greenies will get El Mirage some day too. I just hope it's not in my
lifetime.

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Dec  3 12:32:10 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:32:10 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
In-Reply-To: <OF5827C7F2.47112DD7-ON88257514.0062BE81-88257514.00639C65@
	beckman.com>
References: <20081203161727.CD6D718798D@autox.team.net>
	<OF5827C7F2.47112DD7-ON88257514.0062BE81-88257514.00639C65@beckman.com>
Message-ID: <20081203193216.50DB518786E@autox.team.net>

Karen,
I did not intend for my comments to be an attack on you. Please 
accept my apology. In my own not-so-graceful way, I worded my note so 
that it didn't sound so good. I am all for helping any racer that 
needs it. This includes letters, money, and whatever else is required.

It's just that this whole thing sounds funny.....why isn't the leader 
of the DLRA asking for help? Or is he/she? We have had no word from 
them about this dilemma until you brought it to our attention, and 
thank you for doing so.

Let's hear something from DLRA too.

Skip






At 10:07 AM 12/3/2008, kidavis at beckman.com wrote:

>OK, so I goofed. Just trying to be helpful here. I know I'll never have an
>opportunity to run DLRA, but I also know a few folks that have run there.
>Besides, all of us are on a constant lookout for new places to run and
>trying to protect those we already have.
>
>It didn't occur to me to just copy & paste the letter into the email 
>yesterday,
>so here it is. I feel it is legitimate or I would not have posted 
>it. Do with as
>you see fit.
>
>So sorry for "Cluttering up the Site in the Name of Racers."
>
>Have a nice day,
>Karen Davis
># 1174 D/GR
>
>
>26th November,    2008
>
>Hon Jay Weatherill,
>Minister for Aboriginal Affairs & Reconciliation,
>G.P.O. Box 1047,
>Adelaide    S.A.       5001
>
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>As a supporter and speed trial enthusiast I wish to demonstrate my 
>support for
>the Dry Lakes Racers Australia (DLRA) March Speed Trials.
>
>It is an asset to the State of South Australia and is one of only 
>two places in the
>world (the other being Bonneville, Utah, USA) that is capable of 
>holding such a
>unique event.
>This event has attracted an international following through numerous magazine
>and newspaper reports since 1990 and the DLRA (organisers) have gained the
>admiration and respect of all competitors and spectators who attend 
>the event.

From jdincau at qnet.com  Wed Dec  3 13:15:05 2008
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:15:05 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA
Message-ID: <76F724FAE1CA464D9F3749E5F6E9E71E@denpc>

I looked on the DLRA web site and they talk about not being able to schedule
meetings with the "indigenous stake holders" but nothing about illegal
drilling or exclusions.
Jim

From ed at vetteracing.com  Wed Dec  3 13:40:06 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:40:06 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona
Message-ID: <W367511402617841228336806@webmail49>

If it's a typical Gilbert garage, it's probably in foreclosure............
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 04:19 PM
To: ''Ed Van Scoy'', ''Tom Shannon'', land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona

It looks like a typical Gilbert garage-- maybe it is legit. Regards, Neil
Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Van Scoy Sent:
Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:17 PM To: Tom Shannon; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona
Hmmmmm..... All I can say is nobody I know owns it. Will make a great Gasser!!
Ed -----Original Message----- From: Tom Shannon [mailto:saltfevr at q.com] Sent:
Tuesday, December 2, 2008 03:37 PM To: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject:
[Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona Ed Van Scoy and
other Valley of the Sun folks: located in Gilbert ,AZ Ed!! Whats the scoop?
legit or another craigs list scam? For sale since Nov 18th?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/924273457.html Guys on the yahoo, gasser
forum are wonderin?if link doesn't fire, go to craigs list and put 1940 Willys
in search.Tom ShannonMagna, Utah

From ghatfiel at bigpond.net.au  Wed Dec  3 13:52:14 2008
From: ghatfiel at bigpond.net.au (Graham Hatfield)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:52:14 +1100
Subject: [Land-speed] Racing at Lake Gairdner
Message-ID: <E78209C3201244AA99CC6E61121AEB5E@GRAHAM>

Hi all, not posted via this E-mail forum before, but though I throw in my 2C
worth. I'm a member of the DLRA, and the facts that we have so far are
sketchy, BUT.. I do know that the situation is very sensitive, and must be
approached in the correct manner. The DLRA hierarchy have asked that we
E-mail certain people to get the parties together to discuss how racing may
continue with all 'stakeholders' approval. So, please bear with us, I am
sure that when the DLRA need help from you guys in the US we will holler up
at the right moment!

 

Regarding the 'sensitivity' issue, some of the things said in Keith Turks
E-mail to this forum are the types of statements that would definitely
inflame this situation. I am aware of all that Keith does for the LSR
community and I congratulate him, I know he is a top guy and I can feel his
enthusiasm in the E-mail! However, as I said, I am told we must approach
this in a 'sensitive' manner!

 

For what it's worth, I have heard nothing about any drilling on the lake by
anyone. 

 

Hope this helps, maybe someone else in the DLRA can add to this...

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 13:54:12 2008
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:54:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona
In-Reply-To: <W367511402617841228336806@webmail49>
Message-ID: <710882.32173.qm@web52502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

40K is an awful lot for a car with no history. Maybe the money will hold the
hounds at bay.
 
DW

--- On Wed, 12/3/08, Ed Van Scoy <ed at vetteracing.com> wrote:

From: Ed Van Scoy <ed at vetteracing.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona
To: neil at dbelltech.com, "'Ed Van Scoy'" <ed at vetteracing.com>, "'Tom Shannon'"
<saltfevr at q.com>, land-speed at autox.team.net
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 12:40 PM

If it's a typical Gilbert garage, it's probably in
foreclosure............
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 04:19 PM
To: ''Ed Van Scoy'', ''Tom Shannon'',
land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona

It looks like a typical Gilbert garage-- maybe it is legit. Regards, Neil
Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Van Scoy Sent:
Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:17 PM To: Tom Shannon; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona
Hmmmmm..... All I can say is nobody I know owns it. Will make a great
Gasser!!
Ed -----Original Message----- From: Tom Shannon [mailto:saltfevr at q.com] Sent:
Tuesday, December 2, 2008 03:37 PM To: land-speed at autox.team.net Subject:
[Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona Ed Van Scoy and
other Valley of the Sun folks: located in Gilbert ,AZ Ed!! Whats the scoop?
legit or another craigs list scam? For sale since Nov 18th?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/924273457.html Guys on the yahoo,
gasser
forum are wonderin?if link doesn't fire, go to craigs list and put 1940
Willys
in search.Tom ShannonMagna, Utah
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Dec  3 14:01:42 2008
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:01:42 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Green El Mirage -- was DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
References: <22001387.1228328906614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<004401c9557c$8985e910$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <15928A4AE8AD4C59B6C3DBFF101E8107@ChrisHarrisPC>

Ed Weldon wrote :

  But I am sick and tired of the ignorance, illogic and downright fraud 
being pushed by
 so called environmentalists.

You want to talk about greenies out of control. In New Zealand dairy 
products are a major export. The greenies wanted to levy those farmers with 
a 'fart tax' for the methane released by the flatulence from the cows. 
Google  'fart tax'

With regard our precious few land speed sights round the World, the racers 
are their greatest custodians and naturally always will be.

Chris Harris...........................NZed. 

From DAW1 at comcast.net  Wed Dec  3 15:55:15 2008
From: DAW1 at comcast.net (DAW1)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:55:15 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Green El Mirage -- was DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
In-Reply-To: <15928A4AE8AD4C59B6C3DBFF101E8107@ChrisHarrisPC>
References: <22001387.1228328906614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net><004401c9557c$8985e910$6501a8c0@S>
	<15928A4AE8AD4C59B6C3DBFF101E8107@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <BCFE5FF823144ECDA4E9BEAC97D982C0@SallyPC>

Chris, the same stupidity has hit the USA. Today in the local central PA. 
newspaper there was an article about charging farmers a tax of $175 per cow 
per year, to curb methane gas. The article was so vague I couldn't tell if 
it was a state or federal tax or how it would be enforced OR what the tax 
would be used for. There isn't $175 dollars worth of PROFIT per cow to make 
it worth while for the farmer. doug w.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Harris" <yesford at clear.net.nz>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "James Tone" 
<gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "Keith Turk" <kturk at adelphia.net>; 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>; "SkipHigginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>; 
<drmayf at mayfco.com>; <kidavis at beckman.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Green El Mirage -- was DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!


> Ed Weldon wrote :
>
>  But I am sick and tired of the ignorance, illogic and downright fraud 
> being pushed by
> so called environmentalists.
>
> You want to talk about greenies out of control. In New Zealand dairy 
> products are a major export. The greenies wanted to levy those farmers 
> with a 'fart tax' for the methane released by the flatulence from the 
> cows. Google  'fart tax'
>
> With regard our precious few land speed sights round the World, the racers 
> are their greatest custodians and naturally always will be.
>
> Chris Harris...........................NZed. 
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as daw1 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From kturk at adelphia.net  Wed Dec  3 16:22:37 2008
From: kturk at adelphia.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:22:37 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Racing at Lake Gairdner
References: <E78209C3201244AA99CC6E61121AEB5E@GRAHAM>
Message-ID: <000e01c9559e$07dc4680$6500a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Graham... Sorry if I offended ... that wasn't the intent... I simply call it 
like I see it...


Keith 

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Dec  3 16:36:37 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:36:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona
In-Reply-To: <W367511402617841228336806@webmail49>
References: <W367511402617841228336806@webmail49>
Message-ID: <043667D62AA64009BF8EFC7D83CB141F@DBTech>

Touchi, Ed.



We just bought a house in Gilbert last week (a short sale) to be used as a
rental. Lots of For Sale signs in Gilbert! Not a bad neighborhood, though.



Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

  _____

From: Ed Van Scoy [mailto:ed at vetteracing.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:40 PM
To: neil at dbelltech.com; 'Ed Van Scoy'; 'Tom Shannon';
land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona



If it's a typical Gilbert garage, it's probably in foreclosure............

Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: neil at dbelltech.com [mailto:neil at dbelltech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 04:19 PM
To: ''Ed Van Scoy'', ''Tom Shannon'', land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel Willys in Arizona

It looks like a typical Gilbert garage-- maybe it is legit. Regards, Neil
Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From:
land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Ed Van Scoy Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:17 PM To: Tom
Shannon; land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs
List, Steel Willys in Arizona Hmmmmm..... All I can say is nobody I know
owns it. Will make a great Gasser!! Ed -----Original Message----- From: Tom
Shannon [mailto:saltfevr at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 03:37 PM To:
land-speed at autox.team.net Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr)Craigs List, Steel
Willys in Arizona Ed Van Scoy and other Valley of the Sun folks: located in
Gilbert ,AZ Ed!! Whats the scoop? legit or another craigs list scam? For
sale since Nov 18th? http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/924273457.html
Guys on the yahoo, gasser forum are wonderin?if link doesn't fire, go to
craigs list and put 1940 Willys in search.Tom ShannonMagna, Utah

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Dec  3 16:53:07 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:53:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Green El Mirage -- was DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
In-Reply-To: <BCFE5FF823144ECDA4E9BEAC97D982C0@SallyPC>
References: <22001387.1228328906614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net><004401c9557c$8985e910$6501a8c0@S><15928A4AE8AD4C59B6C3DBFF101E8107@ChrisHarrisPC>
	<BCFE5FF823144ECDA4E9BEAC97D982C0@SallyPC>
Message-ID: <1413A43A784B4D71993340EAC35A2ABD@DBTech>

Sometimes after reading some of these nitwit proposals I have to check the
calendar to see if it's April 1st.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of DAW1
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 3:55 PM
To: Chris Harris; Ed Weldon; James Tone; Keith Turk;
land-speed at autox.team.net; SkipHigginbotham; drmayf at mayfco.com;
kidavis at beckman.com
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Green El Mirage -- was DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!

Chris, the same stupidity has hit the USA. Today in the local central PA. 
newspaper there was an article about charging farmers a tax of $175 per cow 
per year, to curb methane gas. The article was so vague I couldn't tell if 
it was a state or federal tax or how it would be enforced OR what the tax 
would be used for. There isn't $175 dollars worth of PROFIT per cow to make 
it worth while for the farmer. doug w.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Harris" <yesford at clear.net.nz>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "James Tone" 
<gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "Keith Turk" <kturk at adelphia.net>; 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>; "SkipHigginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>; 
<drmayf at mayfco.com>; <kidavis at beckman.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Green El Mirage -- was DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!


> Ed Weldon wrote :
>
>  But I am sick and tired of the ignorance, illogic and downright fraud 
> being pushed by
> so called environmentalists.
>
> You want to talk about greenies out of control. In New Zealand dairy 
> products are a major export. The greenies wanted to levy those farmers 
> with a 'fart tax' for the methane released by the flatulence from the 
> cows. Google  'fart tax'
>
> With regard our precious few land speed sights round the World, the racers

> are their greatest custodians and naturally always will be.
>
> Chris Harris...........................NZed. 
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as daw1 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Dec  3 17:31:20 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 19:31:20 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] Green El Mirage -- was DLRA NEEDS YOUR HELP!!
Message-ID: <bdf.44e7b537.36687ed8@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/3/2008 6:54:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
neil at dbelltech.com writes:

Today in  the local central PA. 
newspaper there was an article about charging  farmers a tax of $175 per cow 
per year, to curb methane gas.  
Would not the US Ag standard Cow Average Fart Exam (CAFE) rating apply here  
? I mean, compute  out the Big Holsteins with the little Jersey  compacts and 
charge the Angus Beef cows with a hay Guzzler surcharge, and Voila  !
OR, put a Cowtylitic Converter on the tail end, condense the methane , run  
the Priusii on it . 
OR, stop drinking Milk, and raise Hops, Barley, grains, Malts , grow BEER  !!!
I think (hope) this thread is worn thinner than skim milk.
BOBW
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Dec  3 22:37:27 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 22:37:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Discovery Channel Show
References: <A105E1968878450C8A2B10ABE043A4DA@JacksPC>
Message-ID: <57BF1F62-589C-4183-968E-7B763EBCEFB2@comcast.net>

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: RadRides Jack
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:36 PM
> Subject: Discovery Channel Show
>
> Christmas is early this year, Discovery Channel will air ( Speed  
> Capital Of The World Bonneville ) on December, 16 at 9pm Central.  
> George Poteet's 69 Cuda the Blowfish built by Rad Rides By Troy is  
> one of the salt cars featured in the hour long story of men and  
> machines against the salt in attempts to set land speed records.
>    This should be some of the best coverage of Bonneville do to the  
> amount of special equipment used by the Discovery team involved in  
> its production.
>     Ride along with George at a top speed of 290mph and experience  
> why these men go back each year.
>        ---  Bonneville the most beautiful Race Track in the world,  
> Built by God ---   Jack
>
> RadRides By Troy
> 24 East Third Street
> Manteno,IL 60950
> (radrides at comcast.net)
> www.radrides.com
> wk.815-468-2590
> Fax 815-468-2589
> Jacks cell 815-351-4434

From lsr350 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  4 00:00:00 2008
From: lsr350 at hotmail.com (gary baker)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:00:00 +1100
Subject: [Land-speed] Racing at Lake Gairdner
In-Reply-To: <000e01c9559e$07dc4680$6500a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <E78209C3201244AA99CC6E61121AEB5E@GRAHAM>
	<000e01c9559e$07dc4680$6500a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <BAY116-W30C227E7E6AE6F0D0CBC8794020@phx.gbl>

Gary Baker   DLRA member #282  G;day racers  been a while since I last posted,
here is some background info re our latest plight, for us (DLRA) to race we
must jump through many hoops and now we must jump through another ,firstly the
lake is a national park and we must meet all the requirements that the govt
places on us to use it ,they have now placed another condition ,that being an
ILUA ( indigenous land use agreement ) which in a nutshell means we have to
negotiate a legally binding agreement with the traditional land owners (
barngarla & kokatha peoples ) on their terms to be able to use the lake for
our racing purposes ,a meeting was arranged but for some reason (unknown by
myself ) pulled out at the last moment , we are now in limbo without this ILUA
we cannot race , It has absolutely nothing to do with greenies and everything
to do with current government / political  flavour of the year , we just
happen to be the meat in the sandwich , and are between a rock and a hard
place and must tread very lightly and not offend any of the following ,who all
have the power and right to stop us racing until the cows come home   SA
government  ,current property owner and the traditional owners > From:
kturk at adelphia.net> To: ghatfiel at bigpond.net.au; land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:22:37 -0600> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Racing at Lake
Gairdner> > Graham... Sorry if I offended ... that wasn't the intent... I
simply call it > like I see it...> > > Keith >
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are
subscribed as lsr350 at hotmail.com> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
_________________________________________________________________
Messenger's gift to you! Download free emoticons today!
http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758

From kturk at adelphia.net  Thu Dec  4 06:16:06 2008
From: kturk at adelphia.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:16:06 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Lake Gairdner and our support.
Message-ID: <00af01c95612$77c30780$6500a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Several Racers from Australia have written me about the mess they are in down
there.. and what they are actually looking for is support for the racing
effort on Lake Gairdner...  I balked at first .... but they've convinced me
that I was wrong and should support the effort... and frankly they are
right...

If World wide support is needed to keep racing at Lake Gairdner then we'd be
remiss in our duties in not supporting it... a simple letter like the one
drafted below is all that is required of us... and it would truly aid them in
showing that they have people around the world that care.

Thank you ... I appreciate the effort it takes to print and send the letter
below...

Keith Turk

----------------------------------------------------------


26th November,    2008

Hon Jay Weatherill,
Minister for Aboriginal Affairs & Reconciliation,
G.P.O. Box 1047,
Adelaide    S.A.       5001


Dear Sir,

As a supporter and speed trial enthusiast I wish to demonstrate my support
for
the Dry Lakes Racers Australia (DLRA) March Speed Trials.

It is an asset to the State of South Australia and is one of only two
places in the
world (the other being Bonneville, Utah, USA) that is capable of holding
such a
unique event.
This event has attracted an international following through numerous
magazine
and newspaper reports since 1990 and the DLRA (organizers) have gained the
admiration and respect of all competitors and spectators who attend the
event.

You must do all in your power to insure the successful continuation of
this amazing event.


Yours faithfully,

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Dec  4 09:40:49 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 08:40:49 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
Message-ID: <49380811.3020502@mayfco.com>

One of th eapproved rule changes, required for the 2010 season is the 
implementation of an inertia switch to shut down an electric fuel pump 
in an upset condition.  I think this is a greeat idea. BUt seems that 
there may be some open issues with that, at least it seems that way to 
me. One is what is the requirement for impact to trigger the switch? It 
needs to be higher that the bump of a push car yet low enough to be 
effective. Can a switch be placed in a control line of a relay or does 
it need to be in the primary line? I can purchase one from Pegasus for 
about 60 bucks that is for 10 - 12 g's and it is used in the circuit 
course racing. But is that too much? Too little?  And that begs the 
question of where and to what the switch should be mounted. Chassis / 
framework? Inside the cockpit area? Does it for some reason need to be 
accessible to the safety crew?  I suspect more questions could be asked 
but this is enough for me now, lol. Have any of you chatted with club 
officials as to what they might actually be looking for during tech 
inspection?

Input is appreciated and no I wont bend over, lol...

mayf

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Dec  4 10:02:47 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:02:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
In-Reply-To: <49380811.3020502@mayfco.com>
References: <49380811.3020502@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <756494A97CCB4BC88343A2D115F449BD@DBTech>

Mayf;

I'd mount the sensor on the chassis so the shock will not be attenuated by
soft padding, etc. The sensor probably will have enough current capacity to
drive a relay in series with the electric fuel pump but not to switch the
high current directly. 10 to 12 Gs sounds reasonable; even a mercury switch
can be used to sense an upset. I can't see why it needs to be accessible to
the safety crew-- the required external electrical system shutoff switch
should take care of the electric fuel pump.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 9:41 AM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...

One of th eapproved rule changes, required for the 2010 season is the 
implementation of an inertia switch to shut down an electric fuel pump 
in an upset condition.  I think this is a greeat idea. BUt seems that 
there may be some open issues with that, at least it seems that way to 
me. One is what is the requirement for impact to trigger the switch? It 
needs to be higher that the bump of a push car yet low enough to be 
effective. Can a switch be placed in a control line of a relay or does 
it need to be in the primary line? I can purchase one from Pegasus for 
about 60 bucks that is for 10 - 12 g's and it is used in the circuit 
course racing. But is that too much? Too little?  And that begs the 
question of where and to what the switch should be mounted. Chassis / 
framework? Inside the cockpit area? Does it for some reason need to be 
accessible to the safety crew?  I suspect more questions could be asked 
but this is enough for me now, lol. Have any of you chatted with club 
officials as to what they might actually be looking for during tech 
inspection?

Input is appreciated and no I wont bend over, lol...

mayf
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Dec  4 10:07:17 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:07:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
In-Reply-To: <49380811.3020502@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB016CE0C0@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Mayf,
It would seem the intent is to shut off the fuel in the event of an
"upset" and one would hope your push truck is gentler than such an
event.

However, this is a VERY good question as the ford switch (afaik) will
trip if the veehickle is hit in the back (ford's intent, anyway) . . . .

It will be interesting to see how this works in reality.  Maybe someone
is already using this and can chime in?

The ford switch is about $35 new or can be source at a recyler.

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 9:41 AM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...

One of th eapproved rule changes, required for the 2010 season is the
implementation of an inertia switch to shut down an electric fuel pump
in an upset condition.  I think this is a greeat idea. BUt seems that
there may be some open issues with that, at least it seems that way to
me. One is what is the requirement for impact to trigger the switch? It
needs to be higher that the bump of a push car yet low enough to be
effective. Can a switch be placed in a control line of a relay or does
it need to be in the primary line? I can purchase one from Pegasus for
about 60 bucks that is for 10 - 12 g's and it is used in the circuit
course racing. But is that too much? Too little?  And that begs the
question of where and to what the switch should be mounted. Chassis /
framework? Inside the cockpit area? Does it for some reason need to be
accessible to the safety crew?  I suspect more questions could be asked
but this is enough for me now, lol. Have any of you chatted with club
officials as to what they might actually be looking for during tech
inspection?

Input is appreciated and no I wont bend over, lol...

mayf
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Dec  4 10:39:46 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:39:46 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA and International Support
In-Reply-To: <00af01c95612$77c30780$6500a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <00af01c95612$77c30780$6500a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <20081204173947.727D7187889@autox.team.net>

Keith,

I, for one, will be pleased to send a letter if that is what DLRA 
officials want us to do. If DLRA had provided correct information to 
Karen in the first place, and accusations of improper drilling 
written by others, supposedly involved, refuted, most all the fuss 
could have been avoided. As I see it, we now have two votes for 
helping by sending the letter Karen graciously sent to us and no 
visible DLRA request yet.

Are there offices in addition to the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs 
and Reconciliation to which letters of support could be of value?

Where are you DLRA? I just don't want to inhibit efforts to keep on 
racing there. Is there anyone out there who is directly involved in 
the negotiations who wants help? If not, then we could damage their 
cause by sending unwanted letters.

Skip



t 05:16 AM 12/4/2008, Keith Turk wrote:
>Several Racers from Australia have written me about the mess they are in down
>there.. and what they are actually looking for is support for the racing
>effort on Lake Gairdner...  I balked at first .... but they've convinced me
>that I was wrong and should support the effort... and frankly they are
>right...
>
>If World wide support is needed to keep racing at Lake Gairdner then we'd be
>remiss in our duties in not supporting it... a simple letter like the one
>drafted below is all that is required of us... and it would truly aid them in
>showing that they have people around the world that care.
>
>Thank you ... I appreciate the effort it takes to print and send the letter
>below...
>
>Keith Turk
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>26th November,    2008
>
>Hon Jay Weatherill,
>Minister for Aboriginal Affairs & Reconciliation,
>G.P.O. Box 1047,
>Adelaide    S.A.       5001
>
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>As a supporter and speed trial enthusiast I wish to demonstrate my support
>for
>the Dry Lakes Racers Australia (DLRA) March Speed Trials.
>
>It is an asset to the State of South Australia and is one of only two
>places in the
>world (the other being Bonneville, Utah, USA) that is capable of holding
>such a
>unique event.
>This event has attracted an international following through numerous
>magazine
>and newspaper reports since 1990 and the DLRA (organizers) have gained the
>admiration and respect of all competitors and spectators who attend the
>event.
>
>You must do all in your power to insure the successful continuation of
>this amazing event.
>
>
>Yours faithfully,
>_______________________________________________

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Dec  4 11:02:12 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:02:12 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
In-Reply-To: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB016CE0C0@cddgomsx03.durang
	o-co.catholichealth.net>
References: <49380811.3020502@mayfco.com>
	<37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB016CE0C0@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <20081204180213.CC0571878CE@autox.team.net>

David,

I have one in my liner that activates a relay that shuts down the 
ignition circuit. I have a mechanical fuel pump. This Ford switch has 
only been activated once....on purpose.....to see if it worked. I 
installed the switch in 2000 after a low speed rollover that some of 
you may remember.

Skip




At 09:07 AM 12/4/2008, Adin, David wrote:
>Mayf,
>It would seem the intent is to shut off the fuel in the event of an
>"upset" and one would hope your push truck is gentler than such an
>event.
>
>However, this is a VERY good question as the ford switch (afaik) will
>trip if the veehickle is hit in the back (ford's intent, anyway) . . . .
>
>It will be interesting to see how this works in reality.  Maybe someone
>is already using this and can chime in?
>
>The ford switch is about $35 new or can be source at a recyler.
>
>David in Durango
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
>Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 9:41 AM
>To: LSR
>Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
>
>One of th eapproved rule changes, required for the 2010 season is the
>implementation of an inertia switch to shut down an electric fuel pump
>in an upset condition.  I think this is a greeat idea. BUt seems that
>there may be some open issues with that, at least it seems that way to
>me. One is what is the requirement for impact to trigger the switch? It
>needs to be higher that the bump of a push car yet low enough to be
>effective. Can a switch be placed in a control line of a relay or does
>it need to be in the primary line? I can purchase one from Pegasus for
>about 60 bucks that is for 10 - 12 g's and it is used in the circuit
>course racing. But is that too much? Too little?  And that begs the
>question of where and to what the switch should be mounted. Chassis /
>framework? Inside the cockpit area? Does it for some reason need to be
>accessible to the safety crew?  I suspect more questions could be asked
>but this is enough for me now, lol. Have any of you chatted with club
>officials as to what they might actually be looking for during tech
>inspection?
>
>Input is appreciated and no I wont bend over, lol...
>
>mayf

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Thu Dec  4 11:09:58 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:09:58 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
References: <49380811.3020502@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <001801c9563b$85b85880$6501a8c0@Rick>

First
The impact to knock out the "inertia" switch is considerably higher than the 
bumping of a push truck.
How many push trucks have triggered this switch?
Have anyone with anything manufactured in the past 16 or so years 
experienced this other than in an accident?
Quit worrying.  Mount it like the OEM did, and make sure it is accessible to 
you.
Hell, mine in the liner is under the seat, and the seat shell has to come 
out to reset it.  Thats how much confidence I have that it is not 
accidentally going to be tripped.
SCTA is not going to tell us what to use but will look in inspection for the 
presence and proper wiring.  It will be hard to prove that it works without 
removal or banging into the race car Really hard.
The Ford switch has been in production since the late 70's basically 
unchanged, and has very proven reliability.

I have used the Ford switch on each of my cars, and never had a problem. 
Wire in series with the activation of the relay or solenoid that controls 
voltage to the fuel pump.  If you are not using a relay you should be.  My 
Weldon pump draws almost 20 Amps at working pressure and flow. (Methanol- 
100psig)

My inertia switches came from junk yards and work just fine.  They have the 
connectors too.

Ricky B
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:40 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...


> One of th eapproved rule changes, required for the 2010 season is the 
> implementation of an inertia switch to shut down an electric fuel pump in 
> an upset condition.  I think this is a greeat idea. BUt seems that there 
> may be some open issues with that, at least it seems that way to me. One 
> is what is the requirement for impact to trigger the switch? It needs to 
> be higher that the bump of a push car yet low enough to be effective. Can 
> a switch be placed in a control line of a relay or does it need to be in 
> the primary line? I can purchase one from Pegasus for about 60 bucks that 
> is for 10 - 12 g's and it is used in the circuit course racing. But is 
> that too much? Too little?  And that begs the question of where and to 
> what the switch should be mounted. Chassis / framework? Inside the cockpit 
> area? Does it for some reason need to be accessible to the safety crew?  I 
> suspect more questions could be asked but this is enough for me now, lol. 
> Have any of you chatted with club officials as to what they might actually 
> be looking for during tech inspection?
>
> Input is appreciated and no I wont bend over, lol...
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as rick at rbmotorsports.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From lsrvette at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 12:01:31 2008
From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:01:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
In-Reply-To: <49380811.3020502@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <578801.5919.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

mayf
 
Interesting questions... I use crossed Mercury switches mounted to the
firewall to fire the chute and kill all electrical systems (pump, ECU,
injectors, etc) in both the 1150 streamliner bike and the Berkeley by tripping
out the master solenoid... adding an inertia switch seems like a good idea...
do automotive inertial switches also trip on an upset? i.e. upside down? or
just inertia (impact)?   also, has anyone played with micro gyros?  I always
wanted to use one of these to trip out the chute if speed > 100 and yawl
greater than 3 degrees... OK a bit over the edge, but those dam electrons are
so much faster than my reflexes...
 
JLS

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:

From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 11:40 AM

One of th eapproved rule changes, required for the 2010 season is the
implementation of an inertia switch to shut down an electric fuel pump in an
upset condition.  I think this is a greeat idea. BUt seems that there may be
some open issues with that, at least it seems that way to me. One is what is
the
requirement for impact to trigger the switch? It needs to be higher that the
bump of a push car yet low enough to be effective. Can a switch be placed in
a
control line of a relay or does it need to be in the primary line? I can
purchase one from Pegasus for about 60 bucks that is for 10 - 12 g's and it
is used in the circuit course racing. But is that too much? Too little?  And
that begs the question of where and to what the switch should be mounted.
Chassis / framework? Inside the cockpit area? Does it for some reason need to
be
accessible to the safety crew?  I suspect more questions could be asked but
this
is enough for me now, lol. Have any of you chatted with club officials as to
what they might actually be looking for during tech inspection?

Input is appreciated and no I wont bend over, lol...

mayf
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as lsrvette at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Thu Dec  4 14:31:57 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:31:57 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
Message-ID: <16428439.1228426317958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

There is a discussion about this on the Landracing website. It's obvious that at least 2 folks have been using these switches and the rest of us have 1+ years to figure out what to do. 

Holley blues and Mallory 110's do not draw high amperage and only ask for a 7-8 amp fuse. This style of pump could probably be used without a relay. Dan stated on landracing "proof of excecution" and that may be a problem as I don't know of a practical test; maybe Rick does. To me you could mount it on the frame next to the pump and it would do what it needs to do in some kind of an impact. I can't see it activating in a spin but on an enddo it would do it's job. I'm going to "wait and see" before anything but am definately leaning towards the FOMOCO.

>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
>
>First
>The impact to knock out the "inertia" switch is considerably higher than the 
>bumping of a push truck.
>How many push trucks have triggered this switch?
>Have anyone with anything manufactured in the past 16 or so years 
>experienced this other than in an accident?
>Quit worrying.  Mount it like the OEM did, and make sure it is accessible to 
>you.
>Hell, mine in the liner is under the seat, and the seat shell has to come 
>out to reset it.  Thats how much confidence I have that it is not 
>accidentally going to be tripped.
>SCTA is not going to tell us what to use but will look in inspection for the 
>presence and proper wiring.  It will be hard to prove that it works without 
>removal or banging into the race car Really hard.
>The Ford switch has been in production since the late 70's basically 
>unchanged, and has very proven reliability.
>
.  My 
>Weldon pump draws almost 20 Amps at working pressure and flow. (Methanol- 
>100psig)

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Thu Dec  4 14:51:01 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:51:01 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA and International Support
Message-ID: <c17.4ee5409d.3669aac5@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/4/2008 12:40:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
saltrat at pahrump.com writes:

Where  are you DLRA?
I went to the DRLA website, on Home page is "Help the DRLA" with all the  
info needed. Write on !!!!
 
_http://www.dlra.org.au/index.htm_ (http://www.dlra.org.au/index.htm) 
 
BOBW
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Dec  4 16:05:46 2008
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:05:46 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] DLRA and International Support
In-Reply-To: <c17.4ee5409d.3669aac5@aol.com>
References: <c17.4ee5409d.3669aac5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20081204230545.2FC3C18786C@autox.team.net>

Wow Bob,

I just love it when someone applies logic to solve a problem.......I 
am now writing.....with red face,

Thanks,
Skip


At 01:51 PM 12/4/2008, BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:
>
>
>In a message dated 12/4/2008 12:40:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
>saltrat at pahrump.com writes:
>Where are you DLRA?
>
>I went to the DRLA website, on Home page is "Help the DRLA" with all 
>the info needed. Write on !!!!
>
><http://www.dlra.org.au/index.htm>http://www.dlra.org.au/index.htm
>
>BOBW
>
>
>
>
>----------
>Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite 
>sites in one place. 
><http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010>Try 
>it now.

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Dec  4 16:43:31 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:43:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
In-Reply-To: <16428439.1228426317958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <16428439.1228426317958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DD783AFBB13944BFA4290320D7052464@DBTech>

Jim;

Be really careful with placing loads on switches unless you know for
absolutely certain that they are rated for the load current. If the contacts
are overloaded it is not uncommon for the contacts to weld themselves
together-- then the switch won't open when it should!

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of James Tone
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:32 PM
To: Rick Byrnes; drmayf at mayfco.com; LSR
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...

There is a discussion about this on the Landracing website. It's obvious
that at least 2 folks have been using these switches and the rest of us have
1+ years to figure out what to do. 

Holley blues and Mallory 110's do not draw high amperage and only ask for a
7-8 amp fuse. This style of pump could probably be used without a relay. Dan
stated on landracing "proof of excecution" and that may be a problem as I
don't know of a practical test; maybe Rick does. To me you could mount it on
the frame next to the pump and it would do what it needs to do in some kind
of an impact. I can't see it activating in a spin but on an enddo it would
do it's job. I'm going to "wait and see" before anything but am definately
leaning towards the FOMOCO.

>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
>
>First
>The impact to knock out the "inertia" switch is considerably higher than
the 
>bumping of a push truck.
>How many push trucks have triggered this switch?
>Have anyone with anything manufactured in the past 16 or so years 
>experienced this other than in an accident?
>Quit worrying.  Mount it like the OEM did, and make sure it is accessible
to 
>you.
>Hell, mine in the liner is under the seat, and the seat shell has to come 
>out to reset it.  Thats how much confidence I have that it is not 
>accidentally going to be tripped.
>SCTA is not going to tell us what to use but will look in inspection for
the 
>presence and proper wiring.  It will be hard to prove that it works without

>removal or banging into the race car Really hard.
>The Ford switch has been in production since the late 70's basically 
>unchanged, and has very proven reliability.
>
.  My 
>Weldon pump draws almost 20 Amps at working pressure and flow. (Methanol- 
>100psig)
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Dec  4 17:30:18 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:30:18 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
In-Reply-To: <16428439.1228426317958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <16428439.1228426317958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4938761A.80008@mayfco.com>

James, all... I too wonder how to demonstrate that the device is 
functional. But another thought also comes to mind. Are these things 
directional?  Would they activate in a roll over?  Or does it take the 
10 g crash loading of impact to actually trigger them?  If they are 
directional, then would the demonstration need to be conducted in three 
orthoginal axis and then off axis conditions?  As an old test guy I'd 
say yes.  Each one would need to be activated in all directions or at 
least a good sampling of them.   Anyone know how the SCCA regulates and 
specs this kind of system? Heck, since it is a safety feature, maybe it 
needs an SFI tag as well....Then a manufacturer would be on the hook to 
demonstrate that it works.

mayf

James Tone wrote:

>There is a discussion about this on the Landracing website. It's obvious that at least 2 folks have been using these switches and the rest of us have 1+ years to figure out what to do. 
>
>Holley blues and Mallory 110's do not draw high amperage and only ask for a 7-8 amp fuse. This style of pump could probably be used without a relay. Dan stated on landracing "proof of excecution" and that may be a problem as I don't know of a practical test; maybe Rick does. To me you could mount it on the frame next to the pump and it would do what it needs to do in some kind of an impact. I can't see it activating in a spin but on an enddo it would do it's job. I'm going to "wait and see" before anything but am definately leaning towards the FOMOCO.
>
>  
>
>>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
>>
>>First
>>The impact to knock out the "inertia" switch is considerably higher than the 
>>bumping of a push truck.
>>How many push trucks have triggered this switch?
>>Have anyone with anything manufactured in the past 16 or so years 
>>experienced this other than in an accident?
>>Quit worrying.  Mount it like the OEM did, and make sure it is accessible to 
>>you.
>>Hell, mine in the liner is under the seat, and the seat shell has to come 
>>out to reset it.  Thats how much confidence I have that it is not 
>>accidentally going to be tripped.
>>SCTA is not going to tell us what to use but will look in inspection for the 
>>presence and proper wiring.  It will be hard to prove that it works without 
>>removal or banging into the race car Really hard.
>>The Ford switch has been in production since the late 70's basically 
>>unchanged, and has very proven reliability.
>>
>>    
>>
>.  My 
>  
>
>>Weldon pump draws almost 20 Amps at working pressure and flow. (Methanol- 
>>100psig)

From saltfever at comcast.net  Thu Dec  4 23:55:30 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 22:55:30 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch
Message-ID: <06136A3F859C453D8AE5AA5187EDB856@dim8100>

Sounds like a great idea.  Any more information like where are they located
in the car? What make and model year should I be looking for in the wrecking
yard?

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Dec  5 01:10:56 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 01:10:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch
In-Reply-To: <06136A3F859C453D8AE5AA5187EDB856@dim8100>
References: <06136A3F859C453D8AE5AA5187EDB856@dim8100>
Message-ID: <A5E36C18-153F-4D65-8FC1-51E5A673943E@comcast.net>

I Googled it:  http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/InertiaSwitch.html

Wes

On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:55 PM, Elon wrote:

> Sounds like a great idea.  Any more information like where are they  
> located
> in the car? What make and model year should I be looking for in the  
> wrecking
> yard?
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Fri Dec  5 03:31:06 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 05:31:06 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
In-Reply-To: <4938761A.80008@mayfco.com>
References: <16428439.1228426317958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4938761A.80008@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <15AA8B487A8241ECBD4F32E62F4B8A77@DaveSatellite>

No one has asked the big question what resets them ie. are they a one time 
use if so you can not test them.. sort of like testing a fuse.. They should 
at least latch up if activated.. Testing is sort of a joke in real time a 10 
or 12 g test means a crash test for all the cars.. at least the lines will 
be short for the bikes..lol
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Rick Byrnes" 
<Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...


> James, all... I too wonder how to demonstrate that the device is 
> functional. But another thought also comes to mind. Are these things 
> directional?  Would they activate in a roll over?  Or does it take the 10 
> g crash loading of impact to actually trigger them?  If they are 
> directional, then would the demonstration need to be conducted in three 
> orthoginal axis and then off axis conditions?  As an old test guy I'd say 
> yes.  Each one would need to be activated in all directions or at least a 
> good sampling of them.   Anyone know how the SCCA regulates and specs this 
> kind of system? Heck, since it is a safety feature, maybe it needs an SFI 
> tag as well....Then a manufacturer would be on the hook to demonstrate 
> that it works.
>
> mayf

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Fri Dec  5 07:18:23 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:18:23 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
References: <16428439.1228426317958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4938761A.80008@mayfco.com>
	<15AA8B487A8241ECBD4F32E62F4B8A77@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <004201c956e4$55b446e0$6501a8c0@Rick>

Dave
The switches are manualy re set (Ford has a push button on top)
Mine are mounted in the same plane as oem did, and is only mildy 
inaccessable being under the seat.
I really think from past experience with this same switch being in millions 
of vehicles, that it will only activate in an accident at which point 
resetting is sort of a moot point.

As I wrote at landracing.com, an inertia switch is in every fuel injected 
vehicle, including Ford Diesels, that have been made since I think 1979.
Virtually all of our push trucks, and I don't think we have seen a 
activation while bumping into a race car.

Doc
I don't think SCTA will cause us to demonstrate function, but look for its 
proper installation, and wiring to be functional.  Since mine is under the 
seat, I'm gonna have to make sure they can see it by removing body panels. 
but liners are inspected naked.  I think a note in the log book is probably 
a good starting point.
I suggest goint to a junkyard, getting one of these things and playing with 
it.  We did that when they first went into production, and found you can 
shake it really hard  and activate it, then reset and do it again.
They don't sense rollover, but will trip with a hard enough impact in 
directions other than for/aft.

OEM (ford) mounts them either in the trunk (side panel) or foot well.  We 
have complete design freedom.  I chose to mount next to the  high current 
solenoids that control electrical systems.

A few years ago I remember watching a video of a little lakester going 
upside down and running on for about 30 seconds after coming to a stop. 
Nothing bad happened, but could have.
I really think this new rule is a good inclusion.

OK, I'm not gonna write about this subject again.
I get to work in the garage today.  Oh and put up Christmas lights.
Tis a special season for Glenys and I.

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Dec  5 08:36:24 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 07:36:24 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
Message-ID: <24267416.1228491385058.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Neal and all. I've been and still am an electrician in a power plant 40 years and have been in the industrial electrical field for 42 years. I know the importance of relays and how they work. I built my first Bonneville car in 1975 and to this day have never used a relay. Granted the loads I've used are not that high and keeping with a one wire altenator has been a great help. 

I purchase only high current toggle switches and have always used knife disconnects and spark plug wire for magnetos as I don't trust any toggle for that job. I have used toggle switches on fuel pumps, water pumps, air blowers, ignitions, nitrous systems, starters, etc and as I have said never a problem. I used terminal boards for a common connection point and make a drawing (print) for different applications and separate wire looms when changing engines. I check all connections every year for corsion and tightness. Everyone should do this. 

At this time I am looking for the load capacity of these inertia switches and for many if it can carry the load of the fuel pump putting it in series with the pump should be sufficient. I personally don't want to add more wiring to my car than is absolutly necessary. 

Wiring fails especially in the enviornment we put it in. You see it every year on the salt where people do not service what they have. Discussion here is good because most take electrical stuff for granted and see it as a "black science". I feel blessed to be working safely all these years with voltages from 125 to 500,000 AC and DC from 24 to 375.

My motto has always been to keep it as simple a possible and if I could run a mechanical pump easily with my carburated engine I would. Like I said I keep it simple.............JD


>Jim;
>
>Be really careful with placing loads on switches unless you know for
>absolutely certain that they are rated for the load current. If the contacts
>are overloaded it is not uncommon for the contacts to weld themselves
>together-- then the switch won't open when it should!
>
>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Dec  5 10:04:24 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:04:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch
In-Reply-To: <A5E36C18-153F-4D65-8FC1-51E5A673943E@comcast.net>
References: <06136A3F859C453D8AE5AA5187EDB856@dim8100>
	<A5E36C18-153F-4D65-8FC1-51E5A673943E@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <A350E13802C94D5484CAF214CD4A2453@DBTech>

Thanks, Wes. Now I don't have to take one apart to see how it works.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wester Potter
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:11 AM
To: Elon
Cc: land-speed submit
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch

I Googled it:
http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/InertiaSwitch.html

Wes

On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:55 PM, Elon wrote:

> Sounds like a great idea.  Any more information like where are they  
> located
> in the car? What make and model year should I be looking for in the  
> wrecking
> yard?
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Dec  5 11:24:47 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:24:47 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
In-Reply-To: <6439E23623AA4638B701A3C00EF06320@DBTech>
References: <24267416.1228491385058.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<6439E23623AA4638B701A3C00EF06320@DBTech>
Message-ID: <493971EF.1040400@mayfco.com>

Neil..it would surely add some "spark" to your life, lol...

mayf

neil at dbelltech.com wrote:

>JD;
>

>Big snip
>


>used to putting my fingers in the circuits that if I ever went
>back to working on tube stuff, I'd probably electrocute myself.
>
>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Dec  5 11:37:42 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:37:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
Message-ID: <29664991.1228502262470.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

You have given the reasons to read about what you are buying. Most of the toggles I buy are rated at 40/50 amps and are rated for DC. Toggles for the most part can not taken aart for servicing. The older equipment I currently repair was built when you could. High current items like big fule pumps, horns, extra lighting, etc: should always use a relay....Thanks for your input.

Like I stated this is a good reason for this thread. If you have some knowledge it can only make your racing better because you are making the correct decisions...............JD

 My point is that overloaded contacts-- whether a relay or switch--
>will eventually fail and "welded shut" is a common failure mechanism.
>
>Switches & relays in automotive applications require DC rated contacts. AC
>rated only contacts will fail in DC applications because of erosion of one
>of the contacts caused by the current being in only one direction. AC rated
>switches depend on the erosion to average out since the current reverses
>itself every cycle. There are different contact materials that are optimized
>for the switch ratings-- some are silver, others are a silver alloy.
>
>Some switches and relays use small gold- plated contacts because they are
>intended for switching only very low current (typically below 0.1A); these
>are called "dry contact" switches. If these are used in high current DC
>applications they will fail after only a few cycles.
>
>Automotive and aircraft switches and relays (if you can find 12V ones, most
>are 28V) are DC rated; appliance switches may be rated AC/DC or AC only.

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Dec  5 11:54:33 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:54:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
In-Reply-To: <493971EF.1040400@mayfco.com>
References: <24267416.1228491385058.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<6439E23623AA4638B701A3C00EF06320@DBTech>
	<493971EF.1040400@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <8B96F0FC56364B34A68296BBC89F9BF0@DBTech>

Shocking, Mayf!!!

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:25 AM
To: neil at dbelltech.com
Cc: 'James Tone'; 'Rick Byrnes'; 'LSR'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...

Neil..it would surely add some "spark" to your life, lol...

mayf

neil at dbelltech.com wrote:

>JD;
>

>Big snip
>


>used to putting my fingers in the circuits that if I ever went
>back to working on tube stuff, I'd probably electrocute myself.
>
>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Dec  5 12:55:09 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:55:09 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
In-Reply-To: <8B96F0FC56364B34A68296BBC89F9BF0@DBTech>
References: <24267416.1228491385058.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<6439E23623AA4638B701A3C00EF06320@DBTech>
	<493971EF.1040400@mayfco.com>
	<8B96F0FC56364B34A68296BBC89F9BF0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <4939871D.1010906@mayfco.com>

Maybe even  "Electrifying!"

mayf
neil at dbelltech.com wrote:

>Shocking, Mayf!!!
>
>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com] 
>Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:25 AM
>To: neil at dbelltech.com
>Cc: 'James Tone'; 'Rick Byrnes'; 'LSR'
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch Specs...
>
>Neil..it would surely add some "spark" to your life, lol...
>
>mayf
>
>neil at dbelltech.com wrote:
>
>  
>
>>JD;
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Big snip
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>
>>used to putting my fingers in the circuits that if I ever went
>>back to working on tube stuff, I'd probably electrocute myself.
>>
>>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Dec  5 13:23:57 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:23:57 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch
In-Reply-To: <A350E13802C94D5484CAF214CD4A2453@DBTech>
References: <06136A3F859C453D8AE5AA5187EDB856@dim8100>
	<A5E36C18-153F-4D65-8FC1-51E5A673943E@comcast.net>
	<A350E13802C94D5484CAF214CD4A2453@DBTech>
Message-ID: <49398DDD.9040204@mayfco.com>

yes they are interesting and so far the schematics fo the ones I have 
looked at they are all pretty much the same. But for this particular 
one, I am curious about something. Let's say the front of the vehicle is 
to the left side of picture 1 and the rear of the car to the right side. 
If a rear end impact to the car occurs, the ball will rollup the right 
side funnel. It hits the lever arm trigger  very close to it's pivot. 
That should make for a quick acting switch, but the ball must move 
upwards a long distance to trigger the switch. A frontal impact gets the 
ball into contact with the lever much quicker, but it has to move the 
lever a longer distance to trigger. The question is: are these more 
sensitive in one direction than another? It certainly looks like it to 
me. So were the engineers more wary of a front end impact or rear (rear 
I suspect as that is where the fuel tank and pump is located) and so 
designed it to be more sensitive to one direction than another? For 
instance if this was installed in a Taurus and that car ran into the 
back of another vehicle, mighten you not want the switch to trigger as 
easily? But if that Taurus was rear ended in the fuel tank area, 
wouldn't you want to cut power in that case particularly? If the switch 
mounts sideways to the picture then the senistivity would be about the 
same in a front or rear end impact. But a side impact would like be 
sensitive to one side of the car or the other. IMHO...

Simple and interesting... and effective

mayf


neil at dbelltech.com wrote:

>Thanks, Wes. Now I don't have to take one apart to see how it works.
>
>Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wester Potter
>Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:11 AM
>To: Elon
>Cc: land-speed submit
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch
>
>I Googled it:
>http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/InertiaSwitch.html
>
>Wes
>
>On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:55 PM, Elon wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Sounds like a great idea.  Any more information like where are they  
>>located
>>in the car? What make and model year should I be looking for in the  
>>wrecking
>>yard?
>>_______________________________________________

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Fri Dec  5 14:39:23 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:39:23 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Being exhaustingly musical
Message-ID: <62174.1228513163@nancyandjon.org>

   Think you've got a sweet-sounding set of pipes?
   > http://www.youtube.com/watch\?v=IAetOJvdOzs&feature=related< /a>
   Jon Wennerberg

From saltfever at comcast.net  Fri Dec  5 15:46:11 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:46:11 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch
Message-ID: <C65B155F7C3F42149850F4D3E5734C72@dim8100>

Many thanks for everyone that is contributing to this thread and to the
instigator that brought it up :) 

 

I hate to do it but I have to ask the question again.  There are so many
devices, relays, packaged ICs, connectors, and stuff on modern cars, how do
I go about finding one of these things in a car or truck?  Rick you gave
good information about Ford products and I'll try that route.  Can anybody
add to this? Can somebody post a picture to Landracing.com of the in-car
switch and location on the car?  TIA  :)     -Elon

From adin at frontier.net  Fri Dec  5 16:55:44 2008
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 16:55:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch
References: <C65B155F7C3F42149850F4D3E5734C72@dim8100>
Message-ID: <005e01c95734$fd2c13d0$6401a8c0@ZTxp>

Since Mr Elon long ago banned my posts for some reason, please pass onto him 
the following information:

In my car, the device is very near the 4" square sign in the trunk that says 
"Fuel pump shutoff switch" with a big arrow.  Driver's side . . . . .







----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch


> Many thanks for everyone that is contributing to this thread and to the
> instigator that brought it up :)
>
>
>
> I hate to do it but I have to ask the question again.  There are so many
> devices, relays, packaged ICs, connectors, and stuff on modern cars, how 
> do
> I go about finding one of these things in a car or truck?  Rick you gave
> good information about Ford products and I'll try that route.  Can anybody
> add to this? Can somebody post a picture to Landracing.com of the in-car
> switch and location on the car?  TIA  :)     -Elon
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfever at comcast.net  Fri Dec  5 17:16:00 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 16:16:00 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Inertia Switch
Message-ID: <F7FDDBFCDCAA48B1A6F4B2D3B3D3C139@dim8100>

Here is one link that may be useful.

http://www.coolcats.net/tech/troubleshooting/inertia.html

 

If someone has a better pic or precise location on other cars please pm me.
TIA,  -Elon

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Dec  6 00:08:59 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 00:08:59 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Benchrace.com
Message-ID: <71598531-AE12-4AAF-BBA6-7C769275A435@comcast.net>

A friend sent me this link.  I probably could spend hours just looking.

http://www.benchrace.com/

Wes

From jdincau at qnet.com  Sat Dec  6 14:35:50 2008
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:35:50 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Super T-10
Message-ID: <7460A631214644BEAC5F1A58F1AEA49A@denpc>

Hi all,
     Took it apart this morning, front seal is OK, bearing retainer is not 
leaking. It is leaking around the countershaft but only when running. How do 
you get the case vent out?
Jim 

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Sat Dec  6 16:49:36 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:49:36 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Tire Testing in So Cal
Message-ID: <493B0F90.00000E.04144@HOME>

Hello LSR,

Just forwarding a video that I found entertaining.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC


-------Original Message-------

From: mike dawson
Date: 12/6/2008 10:34:37 AM
To: Chris Ponder;  Michelle Dawson;  Tom E. Bryant;  dave bowman;  Ray
Forshey;  Logan Steckler;  `Gene Stafford;  don hink;  Tony Dawson
Subject: Fw: Tire Testing in So Cal




From: urlie at earthlink.net
To: enc.projectgarage at verizon.net; cprguy at earthlink.net; skingdon at msn.com
Subject: Tire Testing in So Cal
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:19:56 -0800


Pretty cool driving exhibition.  If the link below doesnt work, go to www
kenblockracing.com and click on videos.





Subject: Tire Testing in So Cal


http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader
swf?vendor_id=204&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_animation_butterflies_en_020908.gif]

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Dec  6 22:06:10 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 05:06:10 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] TOM !     how are you
In-Reply-To: <493B0F90.00000E.04144@HOME>
References: <493B0F90.00000E.04144@HOME>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W38A23FD6C6A4BEA7FA0CB4D9FC0@phx.gbl>

     we missed you   -a lot

     hope you're well and with those you love for the holidays


         go fast, take names

c heers, ' Dirt Track Doug ' Anderson



       -105 + miles south of the world famous 'Syracuse
Mile '
       -241.4  miles north of the Williams Grove Speedway pit entrance
       -2247  or so miles due east of the marvelous Bonneville Salt
Flats

but never more than a few feet from a cold one
             Speedway Bikes, Minibikes and Harley- D's rode with equal joy,
Dog Training,  Murdersickle Parts,  Emergency Airship repair, Hot air,
                  Aerial Surveillance, Corrupt Politicians exposed, and
Midgets, Sprint Cars

                              -and 'Slide Jobs'  truly appreciated  for the
FINE ART  that they are

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooo


> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:49:36 -0800
> From: saltracer at awwwsome.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Tire Testing in So Cal

         Hello LSR,

     Just forwarding a video that I found entertaining.


       Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC




> From: urlie at earthlink.net
> To: enc.projectgarage at verizon.net; cprguy at earthlink.net; skingdon at msn.com
> Subject: Tire Testing in So Cal
> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:19:56 -0800



 Pretty cool driving exhibition.
If the link below doesnt work, go to www.kenblockracing.com and click on
videos.



 Subject: Tire Testing in So Cal


> http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader
> swf?vendor_id=204&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0

_________________________________________________________________
You live life online. So we put Windows on the web.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Sun Dec  7 09:12:49 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 08:12:49 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Tire Testing in So Cal
Message-ID: <493BF601.000001.03488@HOME>

Sorry, It seems that the other forward did not work. Try this!

Tom, Redding CA - 216 D/FCC


-------Original Message-------

From: Tom Bryant
Date: 12/6/2008 3:43:34 PM
To: Jeff Bryant
Subject: Fw: Tire Testing in So Cal


Jeff,

Jeff,

You will appreciate this video. Mike Dawson forwarded this to me.

 Dad


 Pretty cool driving exhibition.  If the link below doesnt work, go to www
kenblockracing.com and click on videos.





Subject: Tire Testing in So Cal


http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader
swf?vendor_id=204&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_animation_butterflies_en_020908.gif]

From saltfevr at q.com  Sun Dec  7 11:02:25 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:02:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Lions Vintage AA/GS Jacket
Message-ID: <BAY122-W55145ABB9A7D20A7210EFAC9FC0@phx.gbl>

Not sure of the size or if really belonged to Siroonian?
http://www.ebay.com  search for item # 140287379981  now at $899
Tom Shannon


Magna, Utah

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Dec  8 11:34:17 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:34:17 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Tom Shannon?
Message-ID: <493D68A9.3090508@mayfco.com>

Tom, I understand you are tryign to get ahold of me... reply to this 
memo and lemme know whatcha got

mayf

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Mon Dec  8 12:55:07 2008
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:55:07 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Welding info
Message-ID: <9A6E29082AD84C34A7BCD7EE8800A157@ChrisHarrisPC>

List,
Below is a request from my brother in law who is an engineer at a local fast 
expanding aircraft business involved with virtually all aspects of small to 
medium size aircraft from contract flying through maintenance and 
fabrication. Any advice or recommendation would be greatly appreciated.
Chris Harris.......................NZed.


Subject: Welding info

> Hi Chris, For some time now we (Farmers Air) have been doing our own
> repairs to our Landing gear and other Steel (mostly chromemoly 4130)
> structural components. We have recently gained certification to
> produce and use our own designed components. The problem that I have
> relates to locally welded components and the quality of the welding,
> by this I mean mostly the appearance of the weld (T.I.G) Even though
> the welders that we use are certified and the welds pass the ministry
> tests....the appearance leaves a bit to be desired, especially when
> compared to the welding you see produced by the various Hot Rod/Race
> Car Chassis builders in the US. The problem we have is getting
> information about what Filler Wire these guys in the States are using
> and (if any) special blend of Argon. The best Filler wire we have
> been able to get here is a generic type PZ6500 with 3 1/2% nickel
> mix. While this produces a reasonable looking Cap...it still falls
> somewhat short of what those American Race Car Chassis builders are
> producing. Is there any way you could find out for me just what it is
> that they use when welding 4130 Chromemoly tube. Cheers Warrick
>
> Warrick and Donna Smith

From david_dymaxion at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  9 12:15:19 2008
From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com (David Dymaxion)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:15:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Welding Rod Info
References: <mailman.13.1228849203.6683.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <262543.77334.qm@web32805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://www.usweldingcorp.com/


http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/4130steelwire.php

I tried some, and my welds are better with it, but welder skill is the far bigger variable.



________________________________
> Hi Chris, For some time now we (Farmers Air) have been doing our own
> repairs to our Landing gear and other Steel (mostly chromemoly 4130)
> structural components. We have recently gained certification to
> produce and use our own designed components. The problem that I have
> relates to locally welded components and the quality of the welding,
> by this I mean mostly the appearance of the weld (T.I.G) Even though
> the welders that we use are certified and the welds pass the ministry
> tests....the appearance leaves a bit to be desired, especially when
> compared to the welding you see produced by the various Hot Rod/Race
> Car Chassis builders in the US. The problem we have is getting
> information about what Filler Wire these guys in the States are using
> and (if any) special blend of Argon. The best Filler wire we have
> been able to get here is a generic type PZ6500 with 3 1/2% nickel
> mix. While this produces a reasonable looking Cap...it still falls
> somewhat short of what those American Race Car Chassis builders are
> producing. Is there any way you could find out for me just what it is
> that they use when welding 4130 Chromemoly tube. Cheers Warrick

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Tue Dec  9 12:34:49 2008
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:34:49 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Welding info
References: <9A6E29082AD84C34A7BCD7EE8800A157@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <79C8008DC43C41A3BF8BD754A9ACB0B7@531W>

 The problem we have is getting
>> information about what Filler Wire these guys in the States are using
>> and (if any) special blend of Argon. The best Filler wire we have
>> been able to get here is a generic type PZ6500 with 3 1/2% nickel
>> mix. While this produces a reasonable looking Cap...it still falls
>> somewhat short of what those American Race Car Chassis builders are
>> producing. Is there any way you could find out for me just what it is
>> that they use when welding 4130 Chromemoly tube. Cheers Warrick
>>
>> Warrick and Donna Smith
>



  When I was TIG welding any of the nickel blends, I had a mixture of
95/5   Argon Hydrogen     95% Argon and  5% Hydrogen blended by the
welding gas supplier in one tank.  makes for a very  pretty  smooth weld,
HOWEVER  we never had any x-ray or structural testing done of the resulting
welds.  so I would recommend those be done considering the parts you stated
were being worked.

Also kept the post-flow gas set for a long time to allow the weld to cool 
and be protected
by the cover gas.   most folks keep postflow short to economize on gas 
costs, but I liked
to keep the weld area protected..

Can,t remember the filler rod  off hand, but will see if I can find the 
catalog..

NOTE:
NEVER try to blend the gases yourself or use separate Argon and Hydrogen 
tanks..
not worth the risk..  Our gas supplier came through fine,.after we explained 
what we were
after..

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Dec 10 08:45:06 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:45:06 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: A Win XP Pro vs Vista Question...
Message-ID: <493FE402.2080107@mayfco.com>

One of our local Pahrump associates has something he want to do with his 
laptop. And that is, dump VISTA and install XP Pro. But, he has a fear. 
He has a 200GB hard drive with stuff on it in the laptop and he is 
concerned that when he loads the XP Pro over Vista that XP won't 
recognize the drive size and he will have lost his data / information.  
Have any of you done this and if so, results? What should I pass along 
to him about doing this? I suggested that he transfer all the info to a 
USB external drive before messing with the installed drive.

Hhhheeeeellllllppppppp!

mayf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Dec 10 08:46:50 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:46:50 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Win XP Pro vs Vista Question
Message-ID: <493FE46A.9080305@mayfco.com>

One of our local Pahrump associates has something he want to do with his 
laptop. And that is, dump VISTA and install XP Pro. But, he has a fear. 
He has a 200GB hard drive with stuff on it in the laptop and he is 
concerned that when he loads the XP Pro over Vista that XP won't 
recognize the drive size and he will have lost his data / information.  
Have any of you done this and if so, results? What should I pass along 
to him about doing this? I suggested that he transfer all the info to a 
USB external drive before messing with the installed drive.

Hhhheeeeellllllppppppp!

mayf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Dec 10 09:02:07 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:02:07 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Win XP Pro vs Vista Question
Message-ID: <493FE7FF.8020800@mayfco.com>

One of our local Pahrump associates has something he wants to do with 
his laptop. And that is, dump VISTA and install XP Pro. But, he has a 
fear. He has a 200GB hard drive with stuff on it in the laptop and he is 
concerned that when he loads the XP Pro over Vista that XP won't 
recognize the drive size and he will have lost his data / information.  
Have any of you done this and if so, results? What should I pass along 
to him about doing this? I suggested that he transfer all the info to a 
USB external drive before messing with the installed drive.

Hhhheeeeellllllppppppp!

mayf

From awumaillist at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Dec 10 10:42:55 2008
From: awumaillist at blueyonder.co.uk (mail_list)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:42:55 -0000
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Win XP Pro vs Vista Question
In-Reply-To: <493FE7FF.8020800@mayfco.com>
References: <493FE7FF.8020800@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <D3400584FEF147979243F40E8E9D0056@AndrewUrwinLT>

you MUST back up all the data to cd-dvd-or usb drive. if you
don't you will guarantee it will get lost. then format the laptop
hdd and then boot the machine with the xp disk. make sure
you first download all the drivers you may need, if the computer
is new then make sure you can get xp drivers for it !!!!!

Andrew


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: <tweecer at yahoogroups.com>; "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:02 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Win XP Pro vs Vista Question


> One of our local Pahrump associates has something he wants to do with
> his laptop. And that is, dump VISTA and install XP Pro. But, he has a
> fear. He has a 200GB hard drive with stuff on it in the laptop and he is
> concerned that when he loads the XP Pro over Vista that XP won't
> recognize the drive size and he will have lost his data / information.
> Have any of you done this and if so, results? What should I pass along
> to him about doing this? I suggested that he transfer all the info to a
> USB external drive before messing with the installed drive.
>
> Hhhheeeeellllllppppppp!
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as awumaillist at blueyonder.co.uk
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.16/1841 - Release Date: 10/12/2008 
09:30

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Dec 10 11:25:00 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:25:00 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Win XP Pro vs Vista Question
Message-ID: <c82.346a67ce.3671637c@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/10/2008 10:47:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
drmayf at mayfco.com writes:

One of  our local Pahrump associates has something he want to do with his 
laptop.  And that is, dump VISTA and install XP Pro. But, he has a fear. 
He has a  200GB hard drive with stuff on it in the laptop and he is 
concerned that  when he loads the XP Pro over Vista that XP won't 
recognize the drive size  and he will have lost his data / information.  
Have any of you done  this and if so, results? What should I pass along 
to him about doing this?  I suggested that he transfer all the info to a 
USB external drive before  messing with the installed drive.
 
 
 
Yes
 
Bob W
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

From dlodom at charter.net  Wed Dec 10 12:03:39 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:03:39 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: A Win XP Pro vs Vista Question...
References: <493FE402.2080107@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <03e401c95afa$03cead10$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Mayf, There is a Yahoo group winxphelp that is full of computer geeks that 
love to answer these questions. I think if he went there and asked he could 
get the best way to do things.
Doug Odom in big ditch were its sunny and 71 today.


Subject: [Land-speed] OT: A Win XP Pro vs Vista Question...


> One of our local Pahrump associates has something he want to do with his 
> laptop. And that is, dump VISTA and install XP Pro. But, he has a fear. He 
> has a 200GB hard drive with stuff on it in the laptop and he is concerned 
> that when he loads the XP Pro over Vista that XP won't recognize the drive 
> size and he will have lost his data / information.  Have any of you done 
> this and if so, results? What should I pass along to him about doing this? 
> I suggested that he transfer all the info to a USB external drive before 
> messing with the installed drive.
>
> Hhhheeeeellllllppppppp!
>
> mayf

From lsr1301 at dahmurf.com  Wed Dec 10 16:01:30 2008
From: lsr1301 at dahmurf.com (lsr1301)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:01:30 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: A Win XP Pro vs Vista Question...
In-Reply-To: <03e401c95afa$03cead10$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
References: <493FE402.2080107@mayfco.com>
	<03e401c95afa$03cead10$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <0F74DEF2D2FF45A8AB74C76507BB9F45@Laptop3>

I had a similar discussion with our nephew whom is WAY more geeky then
myself. He's told me that in many cases this is not possible as Vista
Machines are wired differently then XP machines. Something about different
Hardware needs and that's why the Vista machines can be built so much 
cheaper. I agree with backing up to an external source if you want to be
100% sure of no data loss. External drives are relatively cheap. Beyond that
I would do some checking with someone that knows to see if it is really
possible. Also there is a 32 bit & 64 bit Version of Vista and this may be
part of the key on if you can do it.
Good luck!
Debbie

> One of our local Pahrump associates has something he want to do with his 
> laptop. And that is, dump VISTA and install XP Pro. 

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Wed Dec 10 16:44:11 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:44:11 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: A Win XP Pro vs Vista Question...
In-Reply-To: <03e401c95afa$03cead10$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
References: <493FE402.2080107@mayfco.com>
	<03e401c95afa$03cead10$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <4940544B.9050007@wildblue.net>

Mayf,
I got home!

***

Doug's got the right idea. Because there are major differences between 
Vi$ta and XP Pro,
most Vi$ta programs programs won't run on XP.

If anyone thinks they can install Vi$ta ad then go back to XP ---- they 
are flat WRONG.
Vi$ta is user lethal!

My basic approach would be:
Copy the current partition to a USB drive with a Floppy Dick program 
like Partition Magic.
What ever you use, it must create an identical bootable partition that 
you can copy back
and use. The usb drive should have enough space for a backup copy if the 
XP partition that
you are working on. I suggest backing up XP after each major change.
Then using the internet and a lot of time, install XP and start moving 
your data using
information from the internet. You will be able to get all of the 
information from the
internet if  you're patient.

NOTE:
Some data may not be movable. You will need to obtain XP versions of 
most programs.
BEFORE buying an XP version, call their Support Group and ask how you 
can move
your data -- Vista -> XP. Some software doesn't have useful support, 
don't buy it!!

I must have missed something, so if  "it"  isn't obvious, keep asking 
(the internet) until it is!!!
Remember it won't be easy, but you can beat it into submission.

All the best,
Bryan

OBTW    In my opinion, XP Pro is vastly superior to Vi$ta.




Doug Odom wrote:
> Mayf, There is a Yahoo group winxphelp that is full of computer geeks 
> that love to answer these questions. I think if he went there and 
> asked he could get the best way to do things.
> Doug Odom in big ditch were its sunny and 71 today.

From karhu at california.com  Wed Dec 10 17:16:03 2008
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:16:03 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: A Win XP Pro vs Vista Question...
References: <493FE402.2080107@mayfco.com><03e401c95afa$03cead10$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
	<4940544B.9050007@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <9D650A1C76F94820AD9C18A60B2939BC@BennsDesktop>

> My basic approach would be:
> Copy the current partition to a USB drive with a Floppy Dick program

> I must have missed something, so if  "it"  isn't obvious, keep asking (the 
> internet) until it is!!!

Indeed, the internet and attendant spam seem to often deal with the program 
problem you've described, but it would seem to be of a more personal 
nature... 

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Thu Dec 11 10:59:59 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:59:59 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] 1940 Barn Dodge/non LSR
Message-ID: <cb3.48acb058.3672af1f@aol.com>

Don't know if this went around already, hope most of you enjoy,  anyhow..
 
_http://www.californiaclassix.com/archive/40_Barn-Dodge_c154.html_ 
(http://www.californiaclassix.com/archive/40_Barn-Dodge_c154.html) 
 
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Dec 11 15:02:53 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:02:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] You heard it here first ...
Message-ID: <EC4E72DF-5EE1-4101-9C5E-543A6CCF4CD4@comcast.net>

SEMA eNews, Vol. 11, No. 49 - Dec 11, 2008
U.S. POSTAL SERVICE RAISES SHIPPING RATES
The U.S. Postal Service (USPS) announced that prices for Express Mail,  
Priority Mail, Parcel Select and other parcel services will increase  
about 5% on January 18, 2009. The annual adjustment reflects higher  
operating costs. The USPS has adopted a once-a-year increase,  
generally tied to inflation, in order to provide predictability and  
price protection.

Price changes for first-class mailing services, including stamps, will  
be announced in February and will go into effect in May 2009.

For more information, contact Stuart Gosswein: stuartg at sema.org.

Email a friend 

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Dec 11 20:36:26 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:36:26 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] You heard it here first ...
Message-ID: <W529262658441781229052986@webmail42>

Now we gotta bail them out too!!??
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Wester Potter [mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 03:02 PM
To: 'LAND SPEED LIST'
Subject: [Land-speed] You heard it here first ...

SEMA eNews, Vol. 11, No. 49 - Dec 11, 2008 U.S. POSTAL SERVICE RAISES SHIPPING
RATES The U.S. Postal Service (USPS) announced that prices for Express Mail,
Priority Mail, Parcel Select and other parcel services will increase about 5%
on January 18, 2009. The annual adjustment reflects higher operating costs.
The USPS has adopted a once-a-year increase, generally tied to inflation, in
order to provide predictability and price protection. Price changes for
first-class mailing services, including stamps, will be announced in February
and will go into effect in May 2009. For more information, contact Stuart
Gosswein: stuartg at sema.org. Email a friend

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Dec 11 21:47:08 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:47:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR gift idea
Message-ID: <8F3DD8ED-FAA1-4D10-9A50-42D67AEC99F4@comcast.net>

Have any teenagers on your gift list?  Guaranteed to get them up and  
going in the morning.

http://www.genuinehotrod.com/PartDetail.asp?DepID=7&SecID=13&PLID=70&PartId=7736

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Dec 12 00:26:38 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:26:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
Message-ID: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net>

I'm sure that there are some on this list who remember Bette Paige ...

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b73000_pinup_queen_bettie_page_dead_85.html

Teen age fantasies aside, which was the first magazine you picked up  
in 1956, when you had a choice, Hot Rod or Playboy?  Be honest now!

Wes

From AI6V at aol.com  Fri Dec 12 07:56:57 2008
From: AI6V at aol.com (AI6V at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:56:57 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] Land-speed Digest, Vol 2, Issue 386
Message-ID: <d51.3bc732a7.3673d5b9@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/11/2008 7:04:16 P.M. GMT Standard Time,  
land-speed-request at autox.team.net writes:

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed


HELP
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

From saltfevr at q.com  Fri Dec 12 14:29:49 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:29:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
In-Reply-To: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net>
References: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W21EC2482E3D0AF4292E596C9F90@phx.gbl>

Seeing I was all of 2 yrs old at the time, I think it was Gerber?? Then later
Boys Life?? LOL

Tom Shannon


Magna, Utah> From: wester6935 at comcast.net> To: land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:26:38 -0700> Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember
her?> > I'm sure that there are some on this list who remember Bette Paige
...> >
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b73000_pinup_queen_bettie_page_dead_85.html> >
Teen age fantasies aside, which was the first magazine you picked up > in
1956, when you had a choice, Hot Rod or Playboy? Be honest now!> > Wes>
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are
subscribed as saltfevr at q.com> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Dec 12 15:05:11 2008
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:05:11 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
In-Reply-To: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net>
References: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B60ADEB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

 I was a gleam in daddy's eye that year......

Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wester Potter
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:27 AM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?

I'm sure that there are some on this list who remember Bette Paige ...

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b73000_pinup_queen_bettie_page_dead_85.h
tml

Teen age fantasies aside, which was the first magazine you picked up in
1956, when you had a choice, Hot Rod or Playboy?  Be honest now!

Wes
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Fri Dec 12 15:10:37 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:10:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B60ADEB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <37A8566939582C439A165159E7F7BDCB016CE129@cddgomsx03.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

We moved into the 'burbs in 1963 - the neighbor kid took me to the only
barber on our side of the highway - the only magazines were Playboys.
My dad couldn't figure why it took me 3 hours to get a haircut . . . My
eyes were wide open when I started high school in the fall. -> and the
kids had hot rods, not "customs" woo hoo!

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MEIERLE Mike
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 3:05 PM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?


 I was a gleam in daddy's eye that year......

Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wester Potter
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:27 AM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?

I'm sure that there are some on this list who remember Bette Paige ...

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b73000_pinup_queen_bettie_page_dead_85.h
tml

Teen age fantasies aside, which was the first magazine you picked up in
1956, when you had a choice, Hot Rod or Playboy?  Be honest now!

Wes
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Fri Dec 12 15:12:00 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:12:00 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
References: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B60ADEB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <000801c95ca6$a8d92760$6501a8c0@Rick>

As a healthy 12 year old what do you think I was doing?

Rick
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MEIERLE Mike" <Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?


> I was a gleam in daddy's eye that year......
> 
> Mike Meierle
> #847 F/P/MP
> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
> ECTA Record Holder
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wester Potter
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:27 AM
> To: LAND SPEED LIST
> Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
> 
> I'm sure that there are some on this list who remember Bette Paige ...
> 
> http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b73000_pinup_queen_bettie_page_dead_85.h
> tml
> 
> Teen age fantasies aside, which was the first magazine you picked up in
> 1956, when you had a choice, Hot Rod or Playboy?  Be honest now!
> 
> Wes
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as rickbyrnes at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dlodom at charter.net  Fri Dec 12 15:53:55 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:53:55 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
References: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net><7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B60ADEB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<000801c95ca6$a8d92760$6501a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <00e301c95cac$83991db0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Well I was 15 and I only read it for the articles. But it was hard to read 
words when your eyes are all glassie.

Doug in big ditch

From: "Rick Byrnes"
> As a healthy 12 year old what do you think I was doing?
>
> Rick

> From: "MEIERLE Mike"
>> I was a gleam in daddy's eye that year......
>>
>> Mike Meierle
>> #847 F/P/MP
>> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
>> ECTA Record Holder
>>
>>
>> I'm sure that there are some on this list who remember Bette Paige ...
>>
>> http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b73000_pinup_queen_bettie_page_dead_85.h
>> tml
>>
>> Teen age fantasies aside, which was the first magazine you picked up in
>> 1956, when you had a choice, Hot Rod or Playboy?  Be honest now!
>>
>> Wes

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Dec 12 16:39:39 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:39:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
In-Reply-To: <00e301c95cac$83991db0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
References: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net><7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B60ADEB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<000801c95ca6$a8d92760$6501a8c0@Rick>
	<00e301c95cac$83991db0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <2F1D8128-F88C-42B4-8E1F-EF7CC42297CB@comcast.net>

I'm a little older than most of you and remember the "Vargas girls"  
Alberto Vargas did for Esquire very well.  I am reminded of how lovely  
they were every time I pull out the CD "The Last of the Whorehouse  
Piano Players" By Ralph Sutton and Jay McShann with one of his nudes  
on the front.  Photography is wonderful but nothing can touch the  
allure of those Vargas drawings.  Betty Paige just couldn't compete,  
even in Playboy.  And, come to think of it the music is great too,  
that's why I pull it out of the drawer ... the illustration is just  
the bonus.  I'm going to dub off a copy to have in the car, minus the  
illustration however.  Just great piano playing!

Wes


On Dec 12, 2008, at 3:53 PM, Doug Odom wrote:

> Well I was 15 and I only read it for the articles. But it was hard  
> to read words when your eyes are all glassie.
>
> Doug in big ditch
>
> From: "Rick Byrnes"
>> As a healthy 12 year old what do you think I was doing?
>>
>> Rick
>
>> From: "MEIERLE Mike"
>>> I was a gleam in daddy's eye that year......
>>>
>>> Mike Meierle
>>> #847 F/P/MP
>>> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
>>> ECTA Record Holder
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sure that there are some on this list who remember Bette  
>>> Paige ...
>>>
>>> http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b73000_pinup_queen_bettie_page_dead_85.h
>>> tml
>>>
>>> Teen age fantasies aside, which was the first magazine you picked  
>>> up in
>>> 1956, when you had a choice, Hot Rod or Playboy?  Be honest now!
>>>
>>> Wes
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 12 23:15:48 2008
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:15:48 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
References: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net><7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B60ADEB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com><000801c95ca6$a8d92760$6501a8c0@Rick><00e301c95cac$83991db0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
	<2F1D8128-F88C-42B4-8E1F-EF7CC42297CB@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000301c95cea$45ab32c0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

I remember the "Vargas girls" but my all-time favorites were (and are) the 
drawings of Bill Ward. See  www.womenofward.net and several other internet 
sites displaying his work.

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
To: "Doug Odom" <dlodom at charter.net>
Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?


> I'm a little older than most of you and remember the "Vargas girls" 
> Alberto Vargas did for Esquire very well.  I am reminded of how lovely 
> they were every time I pull out the CD "The Last of the Whorehouse  Piano 
> Players" By Ralph Sutton and Jay McShann with one of his nudes  on the 
> front.  Photography is wonderful but nothing can touch the  allure of 
> those Vargas drawings.  Betty Paige just couldn't compete,  even in 
> Playboy.  And, come to think of it the music is great too,  that's why I 
> pull it out of the drawer ... the illustration is just  the bonus.  I'm 
> going to dub off a copy to have in the car, minus the  illustration 
> however.  Just great piano playing!
>
> Wes

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Sat Dec 13 05:40:19 2008
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 7:40:19 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
In-Reply-To: <00e301c95cac$83991db0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <20081213074019.YM7XA.15891.imail@eastrmwml43>

 My mom's youngest brother at  16   was a rich-kid JD ,  private school drop out who drove a ragged looking custom 51 ford with a glovebox full of tickets, smoked Luckies and sported a ducks ass 'do.   And in spite of her death-penalty warnings for him NOT to teach or show me ANYTHING that she didn't first approve of,  by 1954 Uncle Johnny had  secretly and completely corrupted me. He let  me read his Hot Rods (answering THAT question...)   and when I was about eight,  under the guise of going out for ice cream, he  took me to a car club meeting where the walls of the club house garage  were plastered with centerfold pin-ups.     I was speechless.  A whole parking lot filled with hot rods, and a whole room filled with both nekked women. What more could an eight year old gearhead wannabe need from life besides maybe a chopped and channeled Western Flyer -  a subscription to Playboy?       

---- Doug Odom <dlodom at charter.net> wrote: 
> Well I was 15 and I only read it for the articles. But it was hard to read 
> words when your eyes are all glassie.
> 
> Doug in big ditch
> 
> From: "Rick Byrnes"
> > As a healthy 12 year old what do you think I was doing?
> >
> > Rick
> 
> > From: "MEIERLE Mike"
> >> I was a gleam in daddy's eye that year......
> >>
> >> Mike Meierle
> >> #847 F/P/MP
> >> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
> >> ECTA Record Holder
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm sure that there are some on this list who remember Bette Paige ...
> >>
> >> http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b73000_pinup_queen_bettie_page_dead_85.h
> >> tml
> >>
> >> Teen age fantasies aside, which was the first magazine you picked up in
> >> 1956, when you had a choice, Hot Rod or Playboy?  Be honest now!
> >>
> >> Wes
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as ifixmgs at cox.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Sat Dec 13 12:44:10 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:44:10 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] John Goodman
Message-ID: <000801c95d5b$2bad6200$6501a8c0@Rick>

Has anyone heard from John lately.  I just got one I suspect is a scam, but
just in case.

Rick

From jimwebb at nutsracing.com  Sat Dec 13 12:55:17 2008
From: jimwebb at nutsracing.com (Jim Webb)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:55:17 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] John Goodman
In-Reply-To: <000801c95d5b$2bad6200$6501a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <20081213195543.B21FE187645@autox.team.net>

Rick,

I did. It looks like his email account was hijacked. At least it didn't say
he was in Nigeria!

Jim Webb
Choc Full o' Nuts
A/PP B/PP D/PP ?/FL

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Dec 13 13:18:38 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:18:38 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] John Goodman
In-Reply-To: <000801c95d5b$2bad6200$6501a8c0@Rick>
References: <000801c95d5b$2bad6200$6501a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <D046D8AF45244CB191505531AF03F7D0@DaveSatellite>

Me as well.. though do anything I can if real...
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
To: "land Speed List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:44 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] John Goodman


> Has anyone heard from John lately.  I just got one I suspect is a scam, 
> but
> just in case.
>
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as ddahlgren at snet.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From rbuck at xmission.com  Mon Dec 15 11:58:52 2008
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:58:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
In-Reply-To: <000301c95cea$45ab32c0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
References: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net>
	<7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B60ADEB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<000801c95ca6$a8d92760$6501a8c0@Rick>
	<00e301c95cac$83991db0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
	<2F1D8128-F88C-42B4-8E1F-EF7CC42297CB@comcast.net>
	<000301c95cea$45ab32c0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <E1LCIlB-0001mo-Ar@mx04.mta.xmission.com>

Is this the same Bill Ward who ran the orange #30 Opel GT in Modified 
Sports?  His drawings seemed more cartoon-like than Vargas's.

And yes, I remember Vargas and his art (I musta been a bit 
precocious, Wes...I found 'em in my father's Playboys.  Until he 
started hiding 'em.  But I always seemed to find the occasional 
tidbit under the front seat of his 53 Buick.  Never saw the Esquire 
pics, though) and he was fantastic.  I still have a collection of his 
drawings in digital form.

I also remember Bettie Page and the famous bangs.  I'd read about her 
getting religion, but I didn't realize that she had reconciled it 
with her modelling.  She was a very lovely lady.  I always thought 
that her best photos were done by Bunny Yeager, who was also a pinup 
model...but wielded a mean Speed Graphic camera, too.

RtR

At 11:15 PM 12/12/2008, joseph lance wrote:
>I remember the "Vargas girls" but my all-time favorites were (and 
>are) the drawings of Bill Ward. See  www.womenofward.net and several 
>other internet sites displaying his work.
>
>Lance
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
>To: "Doug Odom" <dlodom at charter.net>
>Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
>
>
>>I'm a little older than most of you and remember the "Vargas girls" 
>>Alberto Vargas did for Esquire very well.  I am reminded of how 
>>lovely they were every time I pull out the CD "The Last of the 
>>Whorehouse  Piano Players" By Ralph Sutton and Jay McShann with one 
>>of his nudes  on the front.  Photography is wonderful but nothing 
>>can touch the  allure of those Vargas drawings.  Betty Paige just 
>>couldn't compete,  even in Playboy.  And, come to think of it the 
>>music is great too,  that's why I pull it out of the drawer ... the 
>>illustration is just  the bonus.  I'm going to dub off a copy to 
>>have in the car, minus the  illustration however.  Just great piano playing!
>>
>>Wes

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Dec 15 12:41:07 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:41:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
References: <5DA90B16-1642-44F5-9F47-DAF73C6B3709@comcast.net><7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B60ADEB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com><000801c95ca6$a8d92760$6501a8c0@Rick><00e301c95cac$83991db0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA><2F1D8128-F88C-42B4-8E1F-EF7CC42297CB@comcast.net><000301c95cea$45ab32c0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<E1LCIlB-0001mo-Ar@mx04.mta.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <275E1093B9664626ACA83679A7B92E26@Glens>

NO, not him.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Buck" <rbuck at xmission.com>
To: "joseph lance" <jolylance at earthlink.net>; "Doug Odom" 
<dlodom at charter.net>; "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?


> Is this the same Bill Ward who ran the orange #30 Opel GT in Modified 
> Sports?  His drawings seemed more cartoon-like than Vargas's.
>
> And yes, I remember Vargas and his art (I musta been a bit precocious, 
> Wes...I found 'em in my father's Playboys.  Until he started hiding 'em. 
> But I always seemed to find the occasional tidbit under the front seat of 
> his 53 Buick.  Never saw the Esquire pics, though) and he was fantastic. 
> I still have a collection of his drawings in digital form.
>
> I also remember Bettie Page and the famous bangs.  I'd read about her 
> getting religion, but I didn't realize that she had reconciled it with her 
> modelling.  She was a very lovely lady.  I always thought that her best 
> photos were done by Bunny Yeager, who was also a pinup model...but wielded 
> a mean Speed Graphic camera, too.
>
> RtR
>
> At 11:15 PM 12/12/2008, joseph lance wrote:
>>I remember the "Vargas girls" but my all-time favorites were (and are) the 
>>drawings of Bill Ward. See  www.womenofward.net and several other internet 
>>sites displaying his work.
>>
>>Lance
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Wester Potter" 
>><wester6935 at comcast.net>
>>To: "Doug Odom" <dlodom at charter.net>
>>Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:39 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR: remember her?
>>
>>
>>>I'm a little older than most of you and remember the "Vargas girls" 
>>>Alberto Vargas did for Esquire very well.  I am reminded of how lovely 
>>>they were every time I pull out the CD "The Last of the Whorehouse  Piano 
>>>Players" By Ralph Sutton and Jay McShann with one of his nudes  on the 
>>>front.  Photography is wonderful but nothing can touch the  allure of 
>>>those Vargas drawings.  Betty Paige just couldn't compete,  even in 
>>>Playboy.  And, come to think of it the music is great too,  that's why I 
>>>pull it out of the drawer ... the illustration is just  the bonus.  I'm 
>>>going to dub off a copy to have in the car, minus the  illustration 
>>>however.  Just great piano playing!
>>>
>>>Wes
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> 


-- 
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From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Mon Dec 15 14:57:38 2008
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:57:38 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Capitol Of The World - Bonneville - Primeres
 Tues. Dec. 15th.
Message-ID: <121520082157.2963.4946D2D1000E818F00000B9322007614380101090E030906@comcast.net>

Speed Capital of the World: Bonneville- Premieres Tuesday, 10PM (EST) on Discovery Channel

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Dec 15 15:18:37 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:18:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Capitol Of The World - Bonneville - Primeres
 Tues. Dec. 15th.
In-Reply-To: <121520082157.2963.4946D2D1000E818F00000B9322007614380101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D051968DC@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>

Are you the star of the show??????????????????????

I appreciate the reminder!

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
jgmagoo at comcast.net
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 2:58 PM
To: land-speed-digest
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Capitol Of The World - Bonneville - Primeres
Tues. Dec. 15th.

Speed Capital of the World: Bonneville- Premieres Tuesday, 10PM (EST) on
Discovery Channel _______________________________________________
Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html

Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Dec 17 09:55:05 2008
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:55:05 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

You guys should really like this....



http://www.americantorque.com/game/engine-id/


Mike Meierle
Alcatel-Lucent
Sr. Systems Engineer
7751 Windsor Drive
Dublin, Ohio 43016
Office: (614) 733-3989
Fax:    (614) 733-3961
Cell:    (614) 284-6229

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Glacier Bkgrd.jpg]

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Wed Dec 17 10:23:59 2008
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:23:59 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <D7BEF50ACCFF41BDB14ED5416467DDE0@531W>

Not bad, I guess got 13 out of the 17 right...

--------------------------------------------------
From: "MEIERLE Mike" <Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:55 AM
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire

> You guys should really like this....
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.americantorque.com/game/engine-id/
> 
> 
> Mike Meierle

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Dec 17 10:44:45 2008
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:44:45 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
In-Reply-To: <D7BEF50ACCFF41BDB14ED5416467DDE0@531W>
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<D7BEF50ACCFF41BDB14ED5416467DDE0@531W>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF5F@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

My score was 12 of 17, I'm short on Mopar "knowledge"

Mike M.

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Szalay
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:24 PM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire

Not bad, I guess got 13 out of the 17 right...

--------------------------------------------------
From: "MEIERLE Mike" <Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:55 AM
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire

> You guys should really like this....
>
>
>
> http://www.americantorque.com/game/engine-id/
>
>
> Mike Meierle

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Dec 17 10:45:07 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:45:07 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
Message-ID: <cd2.46570835.367a94a3@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/17/2008 11:55:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com writes:

You guys  should really like this....
 
 
12 out of 17. I'm spending too much time w/ ricer motors. 
Where's all the comments on last night's Discovery Channel Bonneville show  ? 
My take is Monster Garage type production (and music) featuring hot biker  
chick, wild and crazy electric geeks, and the million dollar race car, and lots  
of commercials and repetition. All due respect to Leslie Porterfield, George  
Poteet, and OSU, but they were picked to embroider the story line. 
I guess a show that we'd like would be a bomb, its gots to bees jazzed up  
for commercial TV. 
You'd think a day to day, from on the road to, tech, Salt Talks, the  parking 
lot at the Nuggett, rat rods, all the international spectators and  
participants, and all our usual suspect characters, could generate something  
marketable .  A kind of Endless Summer treatment, remember that movie ? 
BOB W 
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, 
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)

From v4gr at rcn.com  Wed Dec 17 10:51:48 2008
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:51:48 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<D7BEF50ACCFF41BDB14ED5416467DDE0@531W>
Message-ID: <B4155B9828864B6494321908E91A0F98@your55e5f9e3d2>

I missed one.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Szalay" <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire


> Not bad, I guess got 13 out of the 17 right...
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "MEIERLE Mike" <Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:55 AM
> To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
> 
>> You guys should really like this....
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.americantorque.com/game/engine-id/
>> 
>> 
>> Mike Meierle
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as v4gr at rcn.com
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From rbuck at xmission.com  Wed Dec 17 11:03:46 2008
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:03:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show (was: Engine ID
 questionnaire)
In-Reply-To: <cd2.46570835.367a94a3@aol.com>
References: <cd2.46570835.367a94a3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <E1LD0rI-0006ot-GN@mx04.mta.xmission.com>

I agree with you, Bob.  I wasn't impressed with the show.  I really 
dislike the repetition that's so commonly seen in the Discovery 
Channel's productions (maybe it's all shows...I watch very little 
tv.)  But George Poteet as "Daddy Warbucks" and the OSU team 
"blackballed?"  And then the endless harping on crashes to the point 
of showing the blood inside a car after a crash.  Jeeze...I've been 
asked to point my camera elsewhere for much less "bad press" stuff than that.

Did SCTA have a chance to view and approve the show?  Will Discovery 
come back for the next installation of "crash, death and mayhem on 
the salt?"  If so, I think I'll read a book or write an email instead 
of watching it.

Maybe I'm just getting old and this is the new face of 
television.  If so, I can do without it.

RtR



At 10:45 AM 12/17/2008, BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 12/17/2008 11:55:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com writes:
>
>You guys  should really like this....
>
>
>12 out of 17. I'm spending too much time w/ ricer motors.
>Where's all the comments on last night's Discovery Channel Bonneville show  ?
>My take is Monster Garage type production (and music) featuring hot biker
>chick, wild and crazy electric geeks, and the million dollar race 
>car, and lots
>of commercials and repetition. All due respect to Leslie Porterfield, George
>Poteet, and OSU, but they were picked to embroider the story line.
>I guess a show that we'd like would be a bomb, its gots to bees jazzed up
>for commercial TV.
>You'd think a day to day, from on the road to, tech, Salt Talks, the  parking
>lot at the Nuggett, rat rods, all the international spectators and
>participants, and all our usual suspect characters, could generate something
>marketable .  A kind of Endless Summer treatment, remember that movie ?
>BOB W

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Wed Dec 17 11:14:44 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:14:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire/comments on Bonneville tv
In-Reply-To: <cd2.46570835.367a94a3@aol.com>
References: <cd2.46570835.367a94a3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D051968EA@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>

Discovery's Bonneville:  this old geezer certainly did NOT like the
"production values" (modern editing) as it makes me dizzy. (no comments,
thanks.)  It was great seeing everything.

Someone, somewhere made a comment about certain folks getting all the
face time on camera. . . . About the first three folks I met were: some
skinny guy, some one named "Skip", and this guy traveling through town
that wanted to have a beer and talk LSR - "Bill Smith" - a likely lie .
. .

Turns out all these folks are "heroes" or giants on the salt and ya know
what?  Everyone out there is a hero and a giant!  Everyone answers my
dumb questions (within reason) and lends a hand.  I don't care if
someone is on TV or not - what matters is how they treat the dummies
(me) and how hard they work.

Another hero:  just finish my blazing 152 mph run (haha) and the first
worker I see says:  "Do you need water or a soda?"  and then:  "How was
your run?"  HERO.

Thanks to all - sorry I got off on this rant.

Have a safe holiday . . . .



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BWANA343 at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:45 AM
To: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire

In a message dated 12/17/2008 11:55:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com writes:

You guys  should really like this....


12 out of 17. I'm spending too much time w/ ricer motors.
Where's all the comments on last night's Discovery Channel Bonneville
show  ?
My take is Monster Garage type production (and music) featuring hot
biker chick, wild and crazy electric geeks, and the million dollar race
car, and lots of commercials and repetition. All due respect to Leslie
Porterfield, George Poteet, and OSU, but they were picked to embroider
the story line.
I guess a show that we'd like would be a bomb, its gots to bees jazzed
up for commercial TV.
You'd think a day to day, from on the road to, tech, Salt Talks, the
parking lot at the Nuggett, rat rods, all the international spectators
and participants, and all our usual suspect characters, could generate
something marketable .  A kind of Endless Summer treatment, remember
that movie ?
BOB W
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0
0000025)
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From v4gr at rcn.com  Wed Dec 17 11:14:44 2008
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:14:44 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com><D7BEF50ACCFF41BDB14ED5416467DDE0@531W>
	<B4155B9828864B6494321908E91A0F98@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <6DCE5EB1070A4133A96ADD7242F6692C@your55e5f9e3d2>

To: "John Szalay" <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>; "LAND SPEED LIST" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire


>I missed one. I guessed 409 when it was a 348. Should have been some 
>Studebaker/Packard examples on the test. Make it fair. 

From jdincau at qnet.com  Wed Dec 17 11:28:00 2008
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:28:00 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
In-Reply-To: <B4155B9828864B6494321908E91A0F98@your55e5f9e3d2>
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com><D7BEF50ACCFF41BDB14ED5416467DDE0@531W>
	<B4155B9828864B6494321908E91A0F98@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <0C20FC7437A1448E82D4FFAC821D4547@denpc>

I missed 2 

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Dec 17 11:35:49 2008
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:35:49 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CFA5@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Second engine questionnaire on the site....1957 - 1972

http://www.americantorque.com/game/60s-V8-engine-ID/

And Car History

http://www.americantorque.com/game/automotive-history/

Mike M.


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MEIERLE Mike
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:55 AM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire

You guys should really like this....



http://www.americantorque.com/game/engine-id/


Mike Meierle
Alcatel-Lucent
Sr. Systems Engineer
7751 Windsor Drive
Dublin, Ohio 43016
Office: (614) 733-3989
Fax:    (614) 733-3961
Cell:    (614) 284-6229

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name
of Glacier Bkgrd.jpg] _______________________________________________
Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html

Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Dec 17 11:41:18 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:41:18 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com><D7BEF50ACCFF41BDB14ED5416467DDE0@531W><B4155B9828864B6494321908E91A0F98@your55e5f9e3d2>
	<0C20FC7437A1448E82D4FFAC821D4547@denpc>
Message-ID: <001d01c96077$0eed57a0$6501a8c0@S>

Me too..... But gotta admit I guessed right on a couple of others.
How about a quiz on flatheads and sixes?
Gettin' old here.......Guess it shows.......Big seven-zero next week
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau at qnet.com>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire


> I missed 2 

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Wed Dec 17 11:40:53 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:40:53 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <494947B5.000001.01852@D3DP98F1>

A great trip into the past. 14 out of 17 for me.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: MEIERLE Mike
Date: 12/17/2008 8:55:54 AM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire

You guys should really like this....



http://www.americantorque.com/game/engine-id/


Mike Meierle
Alcatel-Lucent
Sr. Systems Engineer
7751 Windsor Drive
Dublin, Ohio 43016
Office: (614) 733-3989
Fax:    (614) 733-3961
Cell:    (614) 284-6229

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
Glacier Bkgrd.jpg]
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as saltracer at awwwsome.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed


____________________________________________________________

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1852 - Release Date: 12/16/2008
6:11 PM

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of snowman.gif]

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Dec 17 12:01:49 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:01:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
In-Reply-To: <494947B5.000001.01852@D3DP98F1>
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<494947B5.000001.01852@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <32ED3CB84A4346CC98C1A084021BB1A7@DBTech>

I won't even admit my score-- if it isn't a SBC, Corvair, or a Colombo V12,
I'm lost.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tom Bryant
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:41 AM
To: LAND SPEED LIST; MEIERLE Mike
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire

A great trip into the past. 14 out of 17 for me.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: MEIERLE Mike
Date: 12/17/2008 8:55:54 AM
To: LAND SPEED LIST
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire

You guys should really like this....



http://www.americantorque.com/game/engine-id/


Mike Meierle
Alcatel-Lucent
Sr. Systems Engineer
7751 Windsor Drive
Dublin, Ohio 43016
Office: (614) 733-3989
Fax:    (614) 733-3961
Cell:    (614) 284-6229

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
Glacier Bkgrd.jpg]
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as saltracer at awwwsome.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed


____________________________________________________________

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1852 - Release Date: 12/16/2008
6:11 PM

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of
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Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

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From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Dec 17 12:02:28 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:02:28 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show (was: Engine ID
 questionnaire)
Message-ID: <d2f.33b47429.367aa6c4@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/17/2008 1:04:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
rbuck at xmission.com writes:

But  George Poteet as "Daddy Warbucks" and the OSU team 
"blackballed?"   And then the endless harping on crashes to the point 
of showing the blood  inside a car after a crash.  Jeeze...I've been 
asked to point my  camera elsewhere for much less "bad press" stuff than that.

Did SCTA  have a chance to view and approve the show?  Will Discovery 
come back  for the next installation of "crash, death and mayhem on 
the salt?"   If so, I think I'll read a book or write an email instead 
of watching  it.

Maybe I'm just getting old and this is the new face of  
television.  If so, I can do without it.

RtR
 
Considering  all this , I wonder where Land Speed Louise stands on all  this. 
I did see her name in the  credits. Then again, I personally know NY  Fire 
Chiefs that were "technical advisors" to TV and movie Fire related shows,  and I 
guess you don't get paid if you actually advise technically. 
I don't think the SCTA needs this kind of coverage.,.I.M. very H.O., or  
publicity. 
BOB W



**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, 
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Wed Dec 17 12:33:28 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:33:28 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
In-Reply-To: <d2f.33b47429.367aa6c4@aol.com>
References: <d2f.33b47429.367aa6c4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <49495408.7040406@wildblue.net>

List,

I don't see what the problem is.
It's a TV show!
The only reason a TV show exists, is to sell Viagra and Tampons.
Truth is flexible and/or irrelevant, it(the show) absolutely must 
entertain the viewer so that the product can be sold.
Blood, gore and crashes SELL!  Just watch a NASCAR commercial. Crash, 
crash, crash, crash, etc.


Two or three non-commercial stations exist, but their viewer base is 
very small because usually they
are not ENTERTAINING!!! They usually are just factual.

Bryan

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Dec 17 12:38:03 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:38:03 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] [Fwd: land speed racing on Discovery this Tuesday!!!]
Message-ID: <4949551B.3050704@mayfco.com>

Here is what LSL sent around to some of us. I know the server will 
remove the picture but maybe comments to her personnally will get tothe 
right place? I hop so, I am going to send in a few...

mayf

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	land speed racing on Discovery this Tuesday!!!
Date: 	Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:12:38 -0600
From: 	LandSpeed Louise <louise at landspeedproductions.biz>
To: 	News Alert <tech at landspeedproductions.biz>



 

 

Tuesday, December 16, 2008

10PM (Eastern Standard Time) Check local listings for your time slot

Discovery Channel 

Each summer during Bonneville Speed Week the Utah salt desert transforms 
into the greatest racetrack on the planet.

Scorching heat and slippery salt brings racers to their knees as they 
attempt to achieve speed immortality.

 

As the Associate Producer of the show it would be a true gift if you 
were send me your comments - good or ill -- about the show.

 

 

*Speedy Regards,*

* *

*"LandSpeed" Louise Ann Noeth*

Motor Press Guild Officer, Board of Directors.

Member: American Auto Racing Writers & Broadcasters, Society of 
Automotive Historians,

Western Automotive Journalists, Society of Land Speed Racing Historians

*www.landspeedproductions.biz <http://www.landspeedproductions.biz/>*

 

//"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving 
safely in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in 
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming 
"Wow! What a Ride!"//

**P**** ****Please consider the environment before printing this email.**

From dlodom at charter.net  Wed Dec 17 12:55:10 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:55:10 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
References: <d2f.33b47429.367aa6c4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <013901c96081$5e7a70a0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Well, that picture was of my car and my BLOOD from a blow over crash at El 
Mirage in 2000. They wanted to show a picture of my face puffed up from the 
crash but I refused to sign the release. My face was hurt because the lenses 
in my glasses came out and beat my cheeks around enought to make blood come 
out of my tear duct. The only sore place on my body was my face. My glasses 
were too big and the cheek pads inside the helmet pushed the lenses out of 
the frame when my helmet hit the side padding on the roll cage on the first 
bounce. I kind of thought it was going to be a blood and guts type show from 
the start instead of a racing show.

Doug Odom in big ditch


> But  George Poteet as "Daddy Warbucks" and the OSU team
> "blackballed?"   And then the endless harping on crashes to the point
> of showing the blood  inside a car after a crash.  Jeeze...I've been
> asked to point my  camera elsewhere for much less "bad press" stuff than 
> that.
>
> Did SCTA  have a chance to view and approve the show?  Will Discovery
> come back  for the next installation of "crash, death and mayhem on
> the salt?"   If so, I think I'll read a book or write an email instead
> of watching  it.
>
> Maybe I'm just getting old and this is the new face of
> television.  If so, I can do without it.
>
> RtR
>
> Considering  all this , I wonder where Land Speed Louise stands on all 
> this.
> I did see her name in the  credits. Then again, I personally know NY  Fire
> Chiefs that were "technical advisors" to TV and movie Fire related shows, 
> and I
> guess you don't get paid if you actually advise technically.
> I don't think the SCTA needs this kind of coverage.,.I.M. very H.O., or
> publicity.
> BOB W

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Wed Dec 17 13:06:26 2008
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:06:26 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] [Fwd: land speed racing on Discovery this
 Tuesday!!!]
References: <4949551B.3050704@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <D6F63923DF0849C9B83D3639200D941E@531W>

> As the Associate Producer of the show it would be a true gift if you 
> were send me your comments - good or ill -- about the show.
> > 
> *Speedy Regards,*
> > *"LandSpeed" Louise Ann Noeth*
> 

 FWIW:
I was glad to see the presentation, however I'm not impressed with the 
"Hollywood" and NASCAR type treatment.   IE:
 
the crashs,   (we saw the bike crash several times, as well as the flip and
streamliner roll,     (come on, once is enough) the subject is racing 
and Bonneville's place in LSR.

the summarization (or catch up) at the start of each segment after
a commercial break, 

the quick change of shots ( its very disturbing and nauseating)
   ( and I REALLY hate when they do a steady-cam walk around )

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Wed Dec 17 13:17:19 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:17:19 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
In-Reply-To: <494947B5.000001.01852@D3DP98F1>
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<494947B5.000001.01852@D3DP98F1>
Message-ID: <C5E3919816BE475B860B408FA75322D4@DaveSatellite>

Got them all...:)
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "MEIERLE Mike" 
<Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire


>A great trip into the past. 14 out of 17 for me.
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: MEIERLE Mike
> Date: 12/17/2008 8:55:54 AM
> To: LAND SPEED LIST
> Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
>
> You guys should really like this....
>
>
>
> http://www.americantorque.com/game/engine-id/
>
>
> Mike Meierle
> Alcatel-Lucent
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> 7751 Windsor Drive
> Dublin, Ohio 43016
> Office: (614) 733-3989
> Fax:    (614) 733-3961
> Cell:    (614) 284-6229
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
> Glacier Bkgrd.jpg]
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as saltracer at awwwsome.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1852 - Release Date: 
> 12/16/2008
> 6:11 PM
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> faint_grain.jpg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 
> snowman.gif]
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as ddahlgren at snet.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Dec 17 13:20:45 2008
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:20:45 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20ACEE423@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Both quizzes?

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: Tom Bryant <saltracer at awwwsome.com>; LAND SPEED LIST <land-speed at autox.team.net>; MEIERLE Mike
Sent: Wed Dec 17 14:17:19 2008
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire

Got them all...:)
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "MEIERLE Mike" 
<Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire


>A great trip into the past. 14 out of 17 for me.
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: MEIERLE Mike
> Date: 12/17/2008 8:55:54 AM
> To: LAND SPEED LIST
> Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
>
> You guys should really like this....
>
>
>
> http://www.americantorque.com/game/engine-id/
>
>
> Mike Meierle
> Alcatel-Lucent
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> 7751 Windsor Drive
> Dublin, Ohio 43016
> Office: (614) 733-3989
> Fax:    (614) 733-3961
> Cell:    (614) 284-6229
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
> Glacier Bkgrd.jpg]
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as saltracer at awwwsome.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1852 - Release Date: 
> 12/16/2008
> 6:11 PM
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> faint_grain.jpg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 
> snowman.gif]
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as ddahlgren at snet.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 17 13:40:17 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:40:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
Message-ID: <9406006.1229546417481.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Got them all....Stuck in the 60's I guess...Way to many "bent" engines


>
>You guys should really like this....

From joetimney at dol.net  Wed Dec 17 14:17:00 2008
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:17:00 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
In-Reply-To: <C5E3919816BE475B860B408FA75322D4@DaveSatellite>
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<494947B5.000001.01852@D3DP98F1>
	<C5E3919816BE475B860B408FA75322D4@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <49496C4C.1060202@dol.net>

I got them all too...I have owned a 348, 409, have 2 of the 303 Olds 
motors along with many Mopars and Chevys. Of course from building hot 
rods for people, I get to play with Caddys and other oddball stuff. I 
can not identify any new cars at all...the all look alike if you take 
off the emblems.LOL

joe

Dave Dahlgren wrote:
> Got them all...:)
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
> To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "MEIERLE Mike" 
> <Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
>
>
>> A great trip into the past. 14 out of 17 for me.
>>
>> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>>
>> -------Original Message-------

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Dec 17 14:50:09 2008
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 10:50:09 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
	<D7BEF50ACCFF41BDB14ED5416467DDE0@531W>
Message-ID: <B4A91070FFDA463AAAE8294E282B02BE@ChrisHarrisPC>

Got them all, not bad for an ex farm boy.
The 348 was tricky, then remembered a story about a bloke who had 
intermittent plug misfire in his 348. Was caused by loose dipstick on left 
side shorting plug lead.
Chris Harris.....................NZed 

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 17 17:47:45 2008
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:47:45 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] [Fwd: land speed racing on Discovery this
 Tuesday!!!]
References: <4949551B.3050704@mayfco.com>
	<D6F63923DF0849C9B83D3639200D941E@531W>
Message-ID: <001201c960aa$44256ce0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

What I saw on the hour-long Discovery channel program was about 30 minutes 
worth of commercials, a lot of salt flat sound bites with no real context, 
and maybe ten minutes of actual footage most of which was repeated before 
and after each commercial break.

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Szalay" <jpszalay01 at insightbb.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] [Fwd: land speed racing on Discovery this 
Tuesday!!!]


>> As the Associate Producer of the show it would be a true gift if you were 
>> send me your comments - good or ill -- about the show.
>> >
>> *Speedy Regards,*
>> > *"LandSpeed" Louise Ann Noeth*
>>
>
> FWIW:
> I was glad to see the presentation, however I'm not impressed with the 
> "Hollywood" and NASCAR type treatment.   IE:
>
> the crashs,   (we saw the bike crash several times, as well as the flip 
> and
> streamliner roll,     (come on, once is enough) the subject is racing and 
> Bonneville's place in LSR.
>
> the summarization (or catch up) at the start of each segment after
> a commercial break,
> the quick change of shots ( its very disturbing and nauseating)
>   ( and I REALLY hate when they do a steady-cam walk around )

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 17 19:11:37 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 02:11:37 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W25066A5E542D86D80953CED9F30@phx.gbl>

got'em all...

         well ok,   'cept I messed up on the BB Ford or Pontiac? question
(about #15 or so...)
         - the exhaust ports/headers messed me up.

              I was sure it was a FE because of the center spread-apart port
locations...   Oops.

          fun though,


c heers, ' Dirt Track Doug '



       -105 + miles south of the world famous 'Syracuse
Mile '
       -241.4  miles north of the Williams Grove Speedway pit entrance
       -2247  or so miles due east of the marvelous Bonneville Salt
Flats

but never more than a few feet from a cold one          Cold Beer, Hot Blues,
and warm willin' wimin' our specialty,

             Speedway Bikes, Minibikes and Harley- D's rode with equal joy,
Dog Training,  Murdersickle Parts,  Emergency Airship repair, Hot air,
                  Aerial Surveillance, Corrupt Politicians exposed, and
Midgets, Sprint Cars

                              -and 'Slide Jobs'  truly appreciated  for the
FINE ART  that they are




> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:55:05 -0600
> From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
>
> You guys should really like this....
>
>
>
> http://www.americantorque.com/game/engine-id/
>
>
> Mike Meierle

_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere
_122008

From rbuck at xmission.com  Wed Dec 17 19:20:10 2008
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:20:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
In-Reply-To: <013901c96081$5e7a70a0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
References: <d2f.33b47429.367aa6c4@aol.com>
	<013901c96081$5e7a70a0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <E1LD8bk-0008OX-5W@mx04.mta.xmission.com>

Oh, man Doug!  I didn't know that.  But then none of the viewers knew 
it either (except for a very few) and they showed blood and gore from 
6 years previous and an entirely different meet?  Jeeze!

I just started re-watching it to count the number of times they 
showed Jason's crash, implying it was Leslie's and Glen's voice 
saying "Rider down' for the car crash (I can't remember her name...I 
can't remember names hardly at all.)  In the 1st 15 minutes, I saw 
Jason's crash 3 times, The USU "Buckeye Bullets" twice, the car crash 
twice and then the phone rang and I had to handle that.

The other thing that really kinda gravelled my butt was the way they 
referred to the Buckeye Bullet as "A hydrogen bomb on wheels."  Oh, 
man!  Poetic license is all well and good, but is there any frikkin 
wonder how the masses get so much misinformation?

Come to think of it, I'm glad the phone rang.  I'm not gonna bother 
with the rest of the darned thing.

RtR


At 12:55 PM 12/17/2008, Doug Odom wrote:
>Well, that picture was of my car and my BLOOD from a blow over crash 
>at El Mirage in 2000. They wanted to show a picture of my face 
>puffed up from the crash but I refused to sign the release. My face 
>was hurt because the lenses in my glasses came out and beat my 
>cheeks around enought to make blood come out of my tear duct. The 
>only sore place on my body was my face. My glasses were too big and 
>the cheek pads inside the helmet pushed the lenses out of the frame 
>when my helmet hit the side padding on the roll cage on the first 
>bounce. I kind of thought it was going to be a blood and guts type 
>show from the start instead of a racing show.
>
>Doug Odom in big ditch
>
>
>>But  George Poteet as "Daddy Warbucks" and the OSU team
>>"blackballed?"   And then the endless harping on crashes to the point
>>of showing the blood  inside a car after a crash.  Jeeze...I've been
>>asked to point my  camera elsewhere for much less "bad press" stuff 
>>than that.
>>
>>Did SCTA  have a chance to view and approve the show?  Will Discovery
>>come back  for the next installation of "crash, death and mayhem on
>>the salt?"   If so, I think I'll read a book or write an email instead
>>of watching  it.
>>
>>Maybe I'm just getting old and this is the new face of
>>television.  If so, I can do without it.
>>
>>RtR
>>
>>Considering  all this , I wonder where Land Speed Louise stands on all this.
>>I did see her name in the  credits. Then again, I personally know NY  Fire
>>Chiefs that were "technical advisors" to TV and movie Fire related 
>>shows, and I
>>guess you don't get paid if you actually advise technically.
>>I don't think the SCTA needs this kind of coverage.,.I.M. very H.O., or
>>publicity.
>>BOB W

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Dec 17 19:34:18 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:34:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Obscure engines
Message-ID: <9A1EA2B9-5944-4B91-9937-EFF138E014FB@comcast.net>

If you want to try your luck on some more obscure engines just go  
here:  <http://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/Collections/Engines.shtml>

They do identify the engines for you but there are several one of a  
kind engines in their collection that are just plain interesting to see.

The Museum of American Speed - Speedway Motors museum in Lincoln, NE  
has a large and interesting collection of stand alone engine displays

There's 4 and 6 cylinder engines in this collection and there are V8  
and V 16 engines here too but you can spend lots of time just enjoying  
the different engines on display.
When a block is painted white it is a stock block showing aftermarket  
heads and accessories.

I've been fortunate to have some freedom to just look around at the  
museum and also go on several guided tours.  Each docent does his or  
her thing so you get different
emphasis from each one.  When Speedy Bill does a tour you can learn  
stuff the other docents have no idea about and I've been on four tours  
Bill conducted.  Even those are
different depending on the visitors involved.  The Lincoln Continental  
Owners Club tour was far different from the one the five USAC guys  
got.  They told Bill stuff about
his engines even he didn't know.  I just wished I knew more about the  
individuals, the cars and races they were experts on.

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 17 19:41:49 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 02:41:49 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Obscure engines
In-Reply-To: <9A1EA2B9-5944-4B91-9937-EFF138E014FB@comcast.net>
References: <9A1EA2B9-5944-4B91-9937-EFF138E014FB@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W3638F0F6971E6BD5EF9616D9F30@phx.gbl>

It IS a treat to 'tour' with Speedy Bill.

    I've been fortunate to have done it in '98 and again in '03 on the way to
the salt.

     Both visits were with Bill and his most knowledgeable 'better half'
Joyce...

     F.U.N. stuff  for sure.


c heers, ' Dirt Track Doug '



       -105 + miles south of the world famous 'Syracuse
Mile '
       -241.4  miles north of the Williams Grove Speedway pit entrance
       -2247  or so miles due east of the marvelous Bonneville Salt
Flats

but never more than a few feet from a cold
one==========================================================================
===




> From: wester6935 at comcast.net
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:34:18 -0700
> Subject: [Land-speed] Obscure engines
>
 If you want to try your luck on some more obscure engines just go

 here:  <http://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/Collections/Engines.shtml>

They do identify the engines for you but there are several one of a kind
engines in their collection that are just plain interesting to see.
>
> The Museum of American Speed - Speedway Motors museum in Lincoln, NE has a
large and interesting collection of stand alone engine displays
>
> There's 4 and 6 cylinder engines in this collection and there are V8 and V
16 engines here too but you can spend lots of time just enjoying the different
engines on display. When a block is painted white it is a stock block showing
aftermarket heads and accessories.
>
> I've been fortunate to have some freedom to just look around at the   museum
and also go on several guided tours.  Each docent does his or   her thing so
you get different emphasis from each one.  When Speedy Bill does a tour you
can learn   stuff the other docents have no idea about and I've been on four
tours Bill conducted.  Even those are different depending on the visitors
involved.  The Lincoln Continental Owners Club tour was far different from the
one the five USAC guys   got.

They told Bill stuff about his engines even he didn't know.

I just wished I knew more about the individuals, the cars and races they were
experts on.

_________________________________________________________________
You live life online. So we put Windows on the web.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/

From v4gr at rcn.com  Wed Dec 17 19:51:46 2008
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:51:46 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Obscure engines
References: <9A1EA2B9-5944-4B91-9937-EFF138E014FB@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <090233BEFDC14689BF24944CDF7E44CD@your55e5f9e3d2>

It's a real nice collection now but it's about to get better.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wester Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:34 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Obscure engines


> If you want to try your luck on some more obscure engines just go  
> here:  <http://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/Collections/Engines.shtml>
> 
> They do identify the engines for you but there are several one of a  
> kind engines in their collection that are just plain interesting to see.
> 
> The Museum of American Speed - Speedway Motors museum in Lincoln, NE  
> has a large and interesting collection of stand alone engine displays
> 
> There's 4 and 6 cylinder engines in this collection and there are V8  
> and V 16 engines here too but you can spend lots of time just enjoying  
> the different engines on display.
> When a block is painted white it is a stock block showing aftermarket  
> heads and accessories.
> 
> I've been fortunate to have some freedom to just look around at the  
> museum and also go on several guided tours.  Each docent does his or  
> her thing so you get different
> emphasis from each one.  When Speedy Bill does a tour you can learn  
> stuff the other docents have no idea about and I've been on four tours  
> Bill conducted.  Even those are
> different depending on the visitors involved.  The Lincoln Continental  
> Owners Club tour was far different from the one the five USAC guys  
> got.  They told Bill stuff about
> his engines even he didn't know.  I just wished I knew more about the  
> individuals, the cars and races they were experts on.
>speed

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Wed Dec 17 22:01:32 2008
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:01:32 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20B67CF34@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com><494947B5.000001.01852@D3DP98F1><C5E3919816BE475B860B408FA75322D4@DaveSatellite>
	<49496C4C.1060202@dol.net>
Message-ID: <000801c960cd$b26893d0$6501a8c0@Rick>

Got all but one, the Dumb Slowpar 340
I guess thats not bad for a Ford boy.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Timney" <joetimney at dol.net>
Cc: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire


>I got them all too...I have owned a 348, 409, have 2 of the 303 Olds 
> motors along with many Mopars and Chevys. Of course from building hot 
> rods for people, I get to play with Caddys and other oddball stuff. I 
> can not identify any new cars at all...the all look alike if you take 
> off the emblems.LOL
> 
> joe
> 
> Dave Dahlgren wrote:
>> Got them all...:)
>> Dave
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
>> To: "LAND SPEED LIST" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "MEIERLE Mike" 
>> <Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
>>
>>
>>> A great trip into the past. 14 out of 17 for me.
>>>
>>> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>>>
>>> -------Original Message-------
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
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> 
> You are subscribed as rickbyrnes at comcast.net
> 
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From saltfever at comcast.net  Thu Dec 18 02:35:23 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:35:23 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
Message-ID: <94EC177ED6B346DBB1B760F2313EC129@dim8100>

A $36,000 motorcycle engine

A $500,000 Dodge Charger

A $4,000,000 hydrogen streamliner

There were 500 entries at SW, all with their own story. Yet they choose
those three and some accidents.  That is the epitome of journalism,
pandering to the ignorant and titillation of the morose. It fills air time
and pays the bills but nothing more. It was not a show designed for a racer.
It was simple minded entertainment for the uninformed who will go away even
more deluded.



The Worlds Fastest Indian told a story that is closer to the heart and soul
of the majority of the racers. To tell a good story takes hard work, talent,
and intellectual honesty. The Discovery Channel failed all three.

From saltfever at comcast.net  Thu Dec 18 02:44:57 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:44:57 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Engine ID questionnaire
Message-ID: <185C9A46407B45F78452363E18C42B76@dim8100>

Missed the only one where the screen was too dark to see.  It helps to have
"lived" with all of those engines in high school and shortly there after. I
always liked that 331 Cad. Lightest V-8 for its displacement at the time
(before SBC). The highest "correct" was the nail-head at 78%.  

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Thu Dec 18 10:33:47 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 09:33:47 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
In-Reply-To: <d2f.33b47429.367aa6c4@aol.com>
References: <d2f.33b47429.367aa6c4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <494A897B.7090803@wildblue.net>

List,

I don't see what the problem is.
It's a TV show!
The only reason a TV show exists, is to sell Viagra and Tampons.
Truth is flexible and/or irrelevant, it(the show) absolutely must
entertain the viewer so that the product can be sold.
Blood, gore and crashes SELL!  Just watch a NASCAR commercial. Crash,
crash, crash, crash, etc.


Two or three non-commercial stations exist, but their viewer base is
very small because usually they
are not ENTERTAINING!!! They usually are just factual.

Bryan

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Thu Dec 18 11:55:46 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:55:46 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
Message-ID: <bf0.409123e8.367bf6b2@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/18/2008 12:34:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
b.a.savage at wildblue.net writes:

I don't  see what the problem is.
It's a TV show!
The only reason a TV show  exists, is to sell Viagra and Tampons.
Truth is flexible and/or irrelevant,  it(the show) absolutely must
entertain the viewer so that the product can  be sold.
Blood, gore and crashes SELL!  Just watch a NASCAR  commercial. Crash,
crash, crash, crash, etc.


Two or three  non-commercial stations exist, but their viewer base is
very small because  usually they
are not ENTERTAINING!!! They usually are just  factual.

Bryan
 
Remember back to my original thought ?  
"You'd think a day to day, from on the road to, tech, Salt Talks, the  
parking lot at the Nugget, rat rods, all the international spectators and  
participants, and all our usual suspect characters, could generate something  
marketable .  A kind of Endless Summer treatment, remember that movie  ?"
Nobody commented on that,  does anybody think this is a good idea ?  
AND, as Dr.Mayf suggested, maybe sending along a comment to our old pal  Land 
Speed Louise @
_www.landspeedproductions.biz_ (http://www.landspeedproductions.biz) 
would help vent on an individual basis or get some explanatory feedback  ?
I will, don't know about youse all.
BOB W 

 
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, 
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 18 12:27:22 2008
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 11:27:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
In-Reply-To: <bf0.409123e8.367bf6b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <156935.86504.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

She has already asked for thoughts on the show. As an associate producer I
would have thought she could save this mess.
 
I sent my comments this morning.
 
DW

--- On Thu, 12/18/08, BWANA343 at aol.com <BWANA343 at aol.com> wrote:

From: BWANA343 at aol.com <BWANA343 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
To: b.a.savage at wildblue.net, land-speed at autox.team.net
Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 10:55 AM

In a message dated 12/18/2008 12:34:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
b.a.savage at wildblue.net writes:

I don't  see what the problem is.
It's a TV show!
The only reason a TV show  exists, is to sell Viagra and Tampons.
Truth is flexible and/or irrelevant,  it(the show) absolutely must
entertain the viewer so that the product can  be sold.
Blood, gore and crashes SELL!  Just watch a NASCAR  commercial. Crash,
crash, crash, crash, etc.


Two or three  non-commercial stations exist, but their viewer base is
very small because  usually they
are not ENTERTAINING!!! They usually are just  factual.

Bryan

Remember back to my original thought ?
"You'd think a day to day, from on the road to, tech, Salt Talks, the

parking lot at the Nugget, rat rods, all the international spectators and
participants, and all our usual suspect characters, could generate something
marketable .  A kind of Endless Summer treatment, remember that movie  ?"
Nobody commented on that,  does anybody think this is a good idea ?
AND, as Dr.Mayf suggested, maybe sending along a comment to our old pal  Land
Speed Louise @
_www.landspeedproductions.biz_ (http://www.landspeedproductions.biz)
would help vent on an individual basis or get some explanatory feedback  ?
I will, don't know about youse all.
BOB W


**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom000000
25)
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 18 18:42:08 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:42:08 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
In-Reply-To: <94EC177ED6B346DBB1B760F2313EC129@dim8100>
References: <94EC177ED6B346DBB1B760F2313EC129@dim8100>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W53D61ED0CBA258C028FA01D9F00@phx.gbl>

      IMHO,



Elon's take on pandering to the 'sheeple' is spot on.

           What more can you expect ?

c heers, ' Dirt Track Doug '



Dougs Theory of Dumbability

-an attempt to make sense of it all  - by
Doug Anderson



 Moral,  rational,
reasonably intelligent people often make the choice to not have
children  -while those possessing
lesser standards, gray matter, and morality,
procreate like rabbits  spawning offspring like a frog makes
tadpoles  thereby diluting the human gene
pool to all time lows.





The net result of this population glut is an entire country completely overrun
with clueless human like
creatures entertained and informed by sound byte  all,  unfortunately,  with
the right to vote. 



-by this, we
can explain rudeness, moron drivers, body piercing, Gangsta Rappers, Hip
Hop,  and the slide of morals, ethics,
and corrupt politicians into perdition




 ============================================================================
========



> From: saltfever at comcast.net
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:35:23 -0800
> Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
>
> A $36,000 motorcycle engine
>
> A $500,000 Dodge Charger
>
> A $4,000,000 hydrogen streamliner
>
> There were 500 entries at SW, all with their own story. Yet they choose
> those three and some accidents.  That is the epitome of journalism,
> pandering to the ignorant and titillation of the morose. It fills air time
> and pays the bills but nothing more. It was not a show designed for a
racer.
> It was simple minded entertainment for the uninformed who will go away even
> more deluded.
>
>
>
> The Worlds Fastest Indian told a story that is closer to the heart and soul
> of the majority of the racers. To tell a good story takes hard work,
talent,
> and intellectual honesty. The Discovery Channel failed all three.

_________________________________________________________________
You live life online. So we put Windows on the web.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/

From NT788 at comcast.net  Fri Dec 19 08:55:55 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:55:55 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
Message-ID: <121920081555.28136.494BC40B000BA97600006DE82215578674C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Be careful what you wish for! 
I voted for Ron Paul. 
Jack




 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Doug ............." <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>
>       IMHO,
> 
> 
> 
> Elon's take on pandering to the 'sheeple' is spot on.
> 
>            What more can you expect ?
> 
> c heers, ' Dirt Track Doug '
> 
> 
> 
> Dougs Theory of Dumbability
> 
> -an attempt to make sense of it all  - by
> Doug Anderson
> 
> 
> 
>  Moral,  rational,
> reasonably intelligent people often make the choice to not have
> children  -while those possessing
> lesser standards, gray matter, and morality,
> procreate like rabbits  spawning offspring like a frog makes
> tadpoles  thereby diluting the human gene
> pool to all time lows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The net result of this population glut is an entire country completely overrun
> with clueless human like
> creatures entertained and informed by sound byte  all,  unfortunately,  with
> the right to vote. 
> 
> 
> 
> -by this, we
> can explain rudeness, moron drivers, body piercing, Gangsta Rappers, Hip
> Hop,  and the slide of morals, ethics,
> and corrupt politicians into perdition
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  ============================================================================
> ========
> 
> 
> 
> > From: saltfever at comcast.net
> > To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> > Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:35:23 -0800
> > Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
> >
> > A $36,000 motorcycle engine
> >
> > A $500,000 Dodge Charger
> >
> > A $4,000,000 hydrogen streamliner
> >
> > There were 500 entries at SW, all with their own story. Yet they choose
> > those three and some accidents.  That is the epitome of journalism,
> > pandering to the ignorant and titillation of the morose. It fills air time
> > and pays the bills but nothing more. It was not a show designed for a
> racer.
> > It was simple minded entertainment for the uninformed who will go away even
> > more deluded.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Worlds Fastest Indian told a story that is closer to the heart and soul
> > of the majority of the racers. To tell a good story takes hard work,
> talent,
> > and intellectual honesty. The Discovery Channel failed all three.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> You live life online. So we put Windows on the web.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From NT788 at comcast.net  Fri Dec 19 09:36:22 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:36:22 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
Message-ID: <121920081636.25846.494BCD860004B45D000064F62215578674C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!!! JACK

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: dan warner <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
> She has already asked for thoughts on the show. As an associate producer I
> would have thought she could save this mess.
>  
> I sent my comments this morning.
>  
> DW
> 
> --- On Thu, 12/18/08, BWANA343 at aol.com <BWANA343 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> From: BWANA343 at aol.com <BWANA343 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
> To: b.a.savage at wildblue.net, land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 10:55 AM
> 
> In a message dated 12/18/2008 12:34:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> b.a.savage at wildblue.net writes:
> 
> I don't  see what the problem is.
> It's a TV show!
> The only reason a TV show  exists, is to sell Viagra and Tampons.
> Truth is flexible and/or irrelevant,  it(the show) absolutely must
> entertain the viewer so that the product can  be sold.
> Blood, gore and crashes SELL!  Just watch a NASCAR  commercial. Crash,
> crash, crash, crash, etc.
> 
> 
> Two or three  non-commercial stations exist, but their viewer base is
> very small because  usually they
> are not ENTERTAINING!!! They usually are just  factual.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> Remember back to my original thought ?
> "You'd think a day to day, from on the road to, tech, Salt Talks, the
> 
> parking lot at the Nugget, rat rods, all the international spectators and
> participants, and all our usual suspect characters, could generate something
> marketable .  A kind of Endless Summer treatment, remember that movie  ?"
> Nobody commented on that,  does anybody think this is a good idea ?
> AND, as Dr.Mayf suggested, maybe sending along a comment to our old pal  Land
> Speed Louise @
> _www.landspeedproductions.biz_ (http://www.landspeedproductions.biz)
> would help vent on an individual basis or get some explanatory feedback  ?
> I will, don't know about youse all.
> BOB W
> 
> 
> **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
> Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom000000
> 25)
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From NT788 at comcast.net  Fri Dec 19 09:54:29 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:54:29 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Discovery Channel show
Message-ID: <121920081654.6320.494BD1C500003AB0000018B02215578674C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Would you like to be a media hero, or a record holder? Think what a high profile will do for lsr. Templates maybe! 
A fence has been put around El Mirage for us!
Jack







 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Doug Odom" <dlodom at charter.net>
> Well, that picture was of my car and my BLOOD from a blow over crash at El 
> Mirage in 2000. They wanted to show a picture of my face puffed up from the 
> crash but I refused to sign the release. My face was hurt because the lenses 
> in my glasses came out and beat my cheeks around enought to make blood come 
> out of my tear duct. The only sore place on my body was my face. My glasses 
> were too big and the cheek pads inside the helmet pushed the lenses out of 
> the frame when my helmet hit the side padding on the roll cage on the first 
> bounce. I kind of thought it was going to be a blood and guts type show from 
> the start instead of a racing show.
> 
> Doug Odom in big ditch
> 
> 
> > But  George Poteet as "Daddy Warbucks" and the OSU team
> > "blackballed?"   And then the endless harping on crashes to the point
> > of showing the blood  inside a car after a crash.  Jeeze...I've been
> > asked to point my  camera elsewhere for much less "bad press" stuff than 
> > that.
> >
> > Did SCTA  have a chance to view and approve the show?  Will Discovery
> > come back  for the next installation of "crash, death and mayhem on
> > the salt?"   If so, I think I'll read a book or write an email instead
> > of watching  it.
> >
> > Maybe I'm just getting old and this is the new face of
> > television.  If so, I can do without it.
> >
> > RtR
> >
> > Considering  all this , I wonder where Land Speed Louise stands on all 
> > this.
> > I did see her name in the  credits. Then again, I personally know NY  Fire
> > Chiefs that were "technical advisors" to TV and movie Fire related shows, 
> > and I
> > guess you don't get paid if you actually advise technically.
> > I don't think the SCTA needs this kind of coverage.,.I.M. very H.O., or
> > publicity.
> > BOB W
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Dec 19 17:30:15 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:30:15 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
Message-ID: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com>

I have been messing around building a math model of a 4 wheeled vehicle 
that I might be able touse in determining the onset of a spin or slde.  
Rather than use seat of the pants to feel the onset, I think a yaw rate 
detector would be the sensor of choice.  I think that the sensor could 
be coupled to an active yaw contol system so that the vehicle never gets 
fully involved with a spin.  I think also that mweight added to the rear 
of a vehicle for traction purposes might be used as the reaction mass in 
a control system.  Control could be through a fast acting fluid system 
ala hydraulic or pneumaic cylinder, a solenoid like device or 
magnetics.  If magnetics are used then the power requirements could be 
reduced to virtually zero.

But, I gotta ask...is yaw control legal, lol...  I know we spent a 
million words on traction control and that is simpler to implement.


just stuff for thought....

mayf

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Dec 19 17:46:38 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:46:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com>
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <511D2F15676E499AB244CF804BB201F3@DBTech>

I always wondered what to do with that little rate gyro that's been sitting
on my shelf for a long time, Mayf. :)

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:30 PM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control

I have been messing around building a math model of a 4 wheeled vehicle 
that I might be able touse in determining the onset of a spin or slde.  
Rather than use seat of the pants to feel the onset, I think a yaw rate 
detector would be the sensor of choice.  I think that the sensor could 
be coupled to an active yaw contol system so that the vehicle never gets 
fully involved with a spin.  I think also that mweight added to the rear 
of a vehicle for traction purposes might be used as the reaction mass in 
a control system.  Control could be through a fast acting fluid system 
ala hydraulic or pneumaic cylinder, a solenoid like device or 
magnetics.  If magnetics are used then the power requirements could be 
reduced to virtually zero.

But, I gotta ask...is yaw control legal, lol...  I know we spent a 
million words on traction control and that is simpler to implement.


just stuff for thought....

mayf
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 19 18:39:07 2008
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:39:07 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com>
	<511D2F15676E499AB244CF804BB201F3@DBTech>
Message-ID: <000901c96243$d50e60f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Just wondering---some tall skyscrapers have spring dampened sliding weights 
on the top floor to null out swaying motion caused by wind forces. A form of 
yaw control.

Could an added weight in the rear used for traction enhancement be similarly 
used for yaw control if it was allowed to oscillate side-to-side 
(constrained by springs) at a certain frequency ?

A "damper" of this type would not require any power input. Design weight and 
springs for a resonant frequency related to yaw rate?

Lance



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "'LSR'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control


>I always wondered what to do with that little rate gyro that's been sitting
> on my shelf for a long time, Mayf. :)
>
> Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:30 PM
> To: LSR
> Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
>
> I have been messing around building a math model of a 4 wheeled vehicle
> that I might be able touse in determining the onset of a spin or slde.
> Rather than use seat of the pants to feel the onset, I think a yaw rate
> detector would be the sensor of choice.  I think that the sensor could
> be coupled to an active yaw contol system so that the vehicle never gets
> fully involved with a spin.  I think also that mweight added to the rear
> of a vehicle for traction purposes might be used as the reaction mass in
> a control system.  Control could be through a fast acting fluid system
> ala hydraulic or pneumaic cylinder, a solenoid like device or
> magnetics.  If magnetics are used then the power requirements could be
> reduced to virtually zero.
>
> But, I gotta ask...is yaw control legal, lol...  I know we spent a
> million words on traction control and that is simpler to implement.
>
>
> just stuff for thought....
>
> mayf
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as jolylance at earthlink.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Dec 19 19:13:55 2008
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:13:55 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <004f01c96248$9f49a1a0$6401a8c0@S>

Mayf -- You're running modified sports car class aren't you?  Says in the
rule book that you can run a headrest fairing as long as it doesn't extend
past the rear of the body.  This ought to put the sideways CP further aft
like a fin.  This may do a lot more good than any active spin control.
Still the idea of active spin control is an interesting topic.  How about a
fin (on cars where it would be illegal in a completed timed run) deployed by
a small explosive or compressed gas charge at the initiation of the spin.
OK, there's no reason why the driver couldn't use a switch that deactivates
the fin deployment in a record setting or qualifying run if he has the
cojones.  I mean like how would you like to set a record while spinning
throught the lights and then be told you were disqualified because the fin
made your car illegal?
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:30 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control


> I have been messing around building a math model of a 4 wheeled vehicle
> that I might be able to use in determining the onset of a spin or slide.
> Rather than use seat of the pants to feel the onset, I think a yaw rate
> detector would be the sensor of choice.  I think that the sensor could
> be coupled to an active yaw contol system so that the vehicle never gets
> fully involved with a spin. .............(snip)

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Fri Dec 19 21:46:58 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:46:58 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <000901c96243$d50e60f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com>
	<511D2F15676E499AB244CF804BB201F3@DBTech>
	<000901c96243$d50e60f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <494C78C2.3080801@wildblue.net>

Good questions folks.

My first step would be to learn exactly what excessive yaw is and what 
leads up to it.

To me, I see excessive yaw as when the driver has  to lift or it's too 
distracting to the
driver. This, of course is driver dependent.  I believe if I can't set a 
car up so that it
doesn't threaten the driver all of the time, I should be painting my house.

Monitoring wheel rpm and vertical G's in addition to yaw rate may 
produce data that
would enable determining the precursors to excessive yaw. This should 
allow a small
weight, properly controlled, to do the job.

Wouldn't it be nice to talk to some of the folks who worked on F-1 
computerized
suspension back in the early 80's?

Interesting subject Mayf, thanks,
Bryan

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Dec 19 22:59:39 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:59:39 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <494C78C2.3080801@wildblue.net>
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com>
	<511D2F15676E499AB244CF804BB201F3@DBTech>
	<000901c96243$d50e60f0$2101a8c0@WinXP> <494C78C2.3080801@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <494C89CB.9010009@mayfco.com>

Wouldn't need to be excessiv eyaw. But yaw rate.  As soon as yaw rate 
cause a liit to be reacedd then control uses a mass as a reaction body 
to create and off setting force. Mass free floats on a shaft. Controls 
at both ends to amplify the force. Use magnetics and make very high 
spring rates to put stuff back where it goes. Car would never even feel 
like it was going astray.

As I develop my model of spin mathematics to see how small the yaw angle 
needs to be then I will add some control...



mayf 
Bryan Savage wrote:

>
> Good questions folks.
>
> My first step would be to learn exactly what excessive yaw is and what 
> leads up to it.
>
> To me, I see excessive yaw as when the driver has  to lift or it's too 
> distracting to the
> driver. This, of course is driver dependent.  I believe if I can't set 
> a car up so that it
> doesn't threaten the driver all of the time, I should be painting my 
> house.
>
> Monitoring wheel rpm and vertical G's in addition to yaw rate may 
> produce data that
> would enable determining the precursors to excessive yaw. This should 
> allow a small
> weight, properly controlled, to do the job.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to talk to some of the folks who worked on F-1 
> computerized
> suspension back in the early 80's?
>
> Interesting subject Mayf, thanks,
> Bryan

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Dec 20 03:01:15 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 05:01:15 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  YAW Control
Message-ID: <C1F62F3B9EC04FB5982E8C4501169565@john>

Mayf

High performance gliders have a couple of things in common with rear drive 
lsr cars . They carry ballast and they work better if they give away 
directional stability by moving the cg back to the middle . My glider pilot 
friend was thinking of using forwardly sprung ballast that the pilot 
triggered at the first sign a flat spin .

Worst case with an unintentional cg shift would be harmless .

John




> Wouldn't need to be excessiv eyaw. But yaw rate.  As soon as yaw rate 
> cause a liit to be reacedd then control uses a mass as a reaction body to 
> create and off setting force. Mass free floats on a shaft. Controls at 
> both ends to amplify the force. Use magnetics and make very high spring 
> rates to put stuff back where it goes. Car would never even feel like it 
> was going astray.
>
> As I develop my model of spin mathematics to see how small the yaw angle 
> needs to be then I will add some control...

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Dec 20 03:16:31 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 05:16:31 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com>
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <A7E2FB5D36B945A7AA351C6B04D101D6@DaveSatellite>

Does the word undetectable come to mind...
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:30 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control


>I have been messing around building a math model of a 4 wheeled vehicle 
> that I might be able touse in determining the onset of a spin or slde.  
> Rather than use seat of the pants to feel the onset, I think a yaw rate 
> detector would be the sensor of choice.  I think that the sensor could 
> be coupled to an active yaw contol system so that the vehicle never gets 
> fully involved with a spin.  I think also that mweight added to the rear 
> of a vehicle for traction purposes might be used as the reaction mass in 
> a control system.  Control could be through a fast acting fluid system 
> ala hydraulic or pneumaic cylinder, a solenoid like device or 
> magnetics.  If magnetics are used then the power requirements could be 
> reduced to virtually zero.
> 
> But, I gotta ask...is yaw control legal, lol...  I know we spent a 
> million words on traction control and that is simpler to implement.
> 
> 
> just stuff for thought....
> 
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> You are subscribed as ddahlgren at snet.net
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Dec 20 05:56:18 2008
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 06:56:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com><511D2F15676E499AB244CF804BB201F3@DBTech><000901c96243$d50e60f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<494C78C2.3080801@wildblue.net> <494C89CB.9010009@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <701052A56DB849BC9BC48A6B693E4657@keithhrijwmm4p>

Mayf... wierd as this might sound... oh and obnoxious.. most of us just... 
ahhh DRIVE...seriously... your butt will tell you everything you need to 
know... if your butt is going left, turn that way.... same thing for the 
right only different... if your butt is going right.... Turn RIGHT... ( not 
left... see  I told ya it was different )

Seroiusly... it's your job in the few minutes we get on the salt each 
year... the rest of it is a pure mechanical exercise ...

Keith 

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sat Dec 20 07:11:49 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 9:11:49 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] SPINS---YAW  hooooo!!!!!!!!1
Message-ID: <20081220091149.IWK93.120374.imail@eastrmwml47>

Mayf,  IF you KNOW your car spin without too much happening----play with it and have some FUN LEARNING experience---but I would use Differential breaking!!!!!!!!!!!! or a AIR pulse jet CANNON!!!!!!!!!!  

have fun

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Dec 20 09:01:52 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:01:52 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <701052A56DB849BC9BC48A6B693E4657@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com><511D2F15676E499AB244CF804BB201F3@DBTech><000901c96243$d50e60f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<494C78C2.3080801@wildblue.net> <494C89CB.9010009@mayfco.com>
	<701052A56DB849BC9BC48A6B693E4657@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <494D16F0.4030206@wildblue.net>

You're right Keith --- for normal cars.

I was thinking about Streamliners and some have been built with the 
driver just
behind the front axle. In a 30 foot long car, this doesn't give the 
driver's butt much
yaw feed back.

How well the drivers butt has been trained is, in my opinion, critical. 
Drivers whose
experience includes Saturday night at the Fairgrounds dirt track stand 
out in their
ability to handle spin prone cars.


Bryan





Keith Turk wrote:
> Mayf... wierd as this might sound... oh and obnoxious.. most of us 
> just... ahhh DRIVE...seriously... your butt will tell you everything 
> you need to know... if your butt is going left, turn that way.... same 
> thing for the right only different... if your butt is going right.... 
> Turn RIGHT... ( not left... see  I told ya it was different )
>
> Seroiusly... it's your job in the few minutes we get on the salt each 
> year... the rest of it is a pure mechanical exercise ...
>
> Keith

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 20 09:06:22 2008
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:06:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <494D16F0.4030206@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <678664.19787.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

If you have a "spin prone" streamliner you need to look at other areas. Get a
new piece of paper and sharpen your pencil.
 
DW

--- On Sat, 12/20/08, Bryan Savage <b.a.savage at wildblue.net> wrote:

From: Bryan Savage <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
Cc: "'LSR'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 8:01 AM

You're right Keith --- for normal cars.

I was thinking about Streamliners and some have been built with the driver
just
behind the front axle. In a 30 foot long car, this doesn't give the
driver's butt much
yaw feed back.

How well the drivers butt has been trained is, in my opinion, critical.
Drivers
whose
experience includes Saturday night at the Fairgrounds dirt track stand out in
their
ability to handle spin prone cars.


Bryan





Keith Turk wrote:
> Mayf... wierd as this might sound... oh and obnoxious.. most of us just...
ahhh DRIVE...seriously... your butt will tell you everything you need to
know...
if your butt is going left, turn that way.... same thing for the right only
different... if your butt is going right.... Turn RIGHT... ( not left... see
I
told ya it was different )
>
> Seroiusly... it's your job in the few minutes we get on the salt each
year... the rest of it is a pure mechanical exercise ...
>
> Keith
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Dec 20 09:07:27 2008
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:07:27 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com><511D2F15676E499AB244CF804BB201F3@DBTech><000901c96243$d50e60f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<494C78C2.3080801@wildblue.net> <494C89CB.9010009@mayfco.com>
	<701052A56DB849BC9BC48A6B693E4657@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<494D16F0.4030206@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <894BB4EB265C4438883C9040A7F8A472@keithhrijwmm4p>

Best part about being up front is they are closer to the scene of the 
incident and can report accurately...

Keith ( hey it's what we always said about fighter pilots... ( damn Jet 
Jockies always thought they were Hot Stuff... we knew better of course... 
they were Looking at it ) 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Dec 20 10:46:49 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:46:49 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <494D16F0.4030206@wildblue.net>
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com><511D2F15676E499AB244CF804BB201F3@DBTech><000901c96243$d50e60f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<494C78C2.3080801@wildblue.net> <494C89CB.9010009@mayfco.com>
	<701052A56DB849BC9BC48A6B693E4657@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<494D16F0.4030206@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <494D2F89.3000706@mayfco.com>

Short cars are far worse. Becasue of the short wheel base, a short car 
has moved some distance before the driver can react.

mayf
Bryan Savage wrote:

>
> You're right Keith --- for normal cars.
>
> I was thinking about Streamliners and some have been built with the 
> driver just
> behind the front axle. In a 30 foot long car, this doesn't give the 
> driver's butt much
> yaw feed back.
>
> How well the drivers butt has been trained is, in my opinion, 
> critical. Drivers whose
> experience includes Saturday night at the Fairgrounds dirt track stand 
> out in their
> ability to handle spin prone cars.
>
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
> Keith Turk wrote:
>
>> Mayf... wierd as this might sound... oh and obnoxious.. most of us 
>> just... ahhh DRIVE...seriously... your butt will tell you everything 
>> you need to know... if your butt is going left, turn that way.... 
>> same thing for the right only different... if your butt is going 
>> right.... Turn RIGHT... ( not left... see  I told ya it was different )
>>
>> Seroiusly... it's your job in the few minutes we get on the salt each 
>> year... the rest of it is a pure mechanical exercise ...
>>
>> Keith

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sat Dec 20 10:48:23 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:48:23 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  YAW Control
Message-ID: <122020081748.28.494D2FE70006FDA90000001C2216538496C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Consider 1to 3 degrees of caster!Jack

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net> 

> Mayf 
> 
> High performance gliders have a couple of things in common with rear drive 
> lsr cars . They carry ballast and they work better if they give away 
> directional stability by moving the cg back to the middle . My glider pilot 
> friend was thinking of using forwardly sprung ballast that the pilot 
> triggered at the first sign a flat spin . 
> 
> Worst case with an unintentional cg shift would be harmless . 
> 
> John 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't need to be excessiv eyaw. But yaw rate. As soon as yaw rate 
> > cause a liit to be reacedd then control uses a mass as a reaction body to 
> > create and off setting force. Mass free floats on a shaft. Controls at 
> > both ends to amplify the force. Use magnetics and make very high spring 
> > rates to put stuff back where it goes. Car would never even feel like it 
> > was going astray. 
> > 
> > As I develop my model of spin mathematics to see how small the yaw angle 
> > needs to be then I will add some control... 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sat Dec 20 11:10:25 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:10:25 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Capitol Of The World - Bonneville - Primeres
 Tues. Dec. 15th.
Message-ID: <122020081810.5790.494D35110001182D0000169E2216538496C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Its Good to be the star!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org> 

> Are you the star of the show?????????????????????? 
> 
> I appreciate the reminder! 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net 
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of 
> jgmagoo at comcast.net 
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 2:58 PM 
> To: land-speed-digest 
> Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Capitol Of The World - Bonneville - Primeres 
> Tues. Dec. 15th. 
> 
> Speed Capital of the World: Bonneville- Premieres Tuesday, 10PM (EST) on 
> Discovery Channel _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Land-speed mailing list 
> 
> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Dec 20 11:28:16 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:28:16 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <494D2F89.3000706@mayfco.com>
References: <494C3C97.5060306@mayfco.com><511D2F15676E499AB244CF804BB201F3@DBTech><000901c96243$d50e60f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<494C78C2.3080801@wildblue.net> <494C89CB.9010009@mayfco.com>
	<701052A56DB849BC9BC48A6B693E4657@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<494D16F0.4030206@wildblue.net> <494D2F89.3000706@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <494D3940.4060507@wildblue.net>

Time is the big problem with a short wheelbase car. You detect something 
bad is
going on when you notice you're facing the starting line.

Bryan




drmayf wrote:
> Short cars are far worse. Becasue of the short wheel base, a short car 
> has moved some distance before the driver can react.
>
> mayf
> Bryan Savage wrote:

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sat Dec 20 11:32:45 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:32:45 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  YAW Control
Message-ID: <122020081832.11171.494D3A4C000F182200002BA32216538496C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Dr 
15degrees is to much. Any steering corection will X the traction to the outside drive wheel and and cause badness,even morso when you correct! Caster is for letting go of the wheel in a turn causing it to center. You have a steering wheel to do that! Yes it does contribute at the onset! As soon as traction fails and the car moves sidways ,the driver corrects, and caster causes trouble. Elininate it! You control the car, the car shouldn't control you! Jack

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> 

> Jack, my car has 16 degrees of caster. But that does not help th eonset 
> of a spin. And from my experienc, does npt help after either, except if 
> you take hands off and let the car decide what to do, lol. Was fun 
> watching the steering control thes kid. Just like they told us in high 
> school...steer into th skid. 
> 
> mayf 
> NT788 at comcast.net wrote: 
> 
> >Consider 1to 3 degrees of caster!Jack 
> > 
> >-------------- Original message -------------- 
> >From: "John Burk" 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>Mayf 
> >> 
> >>High performance gliders have a couple of things in common with rear drive 
> >>lsr cars . They carr y ballast and they work better if they give away 
> >>directional stability by moving the cg back to the middle . My glider pilot 
> >>friend was thinking of using forwardly sprung ballast that the pilot 
> >>triggered at the first sign a flat spin . 
> >> 
> >>Worst case with an unintentional cg shift would be harmless . 
> >> 
> >>John 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>Wouldn't need to be excessiv eyaw. But yaw rate. As soon as yaw rate 
> >>>cause a liit to be reacedd then control uses a mass as a reaction body to 
> >>>create and off setting force. Mass free floats on a shaft. Controls at 
> >>>both ends to amplify the force. Use magnetics and make very high spring 
> >>>rates to put stuff back where it goes. Car would never even feel like it 
> >>>was going astray. 
> >>> 
> >>>As I develop my model of spin mathematics to see how small the yaw angle 
> >>>needs to be then I will add some control... 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>_______________________________________________ 
> >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> >> 
> >>Land-speed mailing list 
> >> 
> >>You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net 
> >> 
> >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 
> >> 
> >> 
> >_______________________________________________ 
> >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> > 
> >Land-speed mailing list 
> > 
> >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com 
> > 
> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Dec 20 11:32:56 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:32:56 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <122020081748.28.494D2FE70006FDA90000001C2216538496C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
References: <122020081748.28.494D2FE70006FDA90000001C2216538496C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <494D3A58.9080005@wildblue.net>

OK, I'll bite Jack. How does caster relate to maintaining lateral stability?

Bryan


NT788 at comcast.net wrote:
> Consider 1to 3 degrees of caster!Jack

From NT788 at comcast.net  Sat Dec 20 11:46:25 2008
From: NT788 at comcast.net (NT788 at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:46:25 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  YAW Control
Message-ID: <122020081846.2694.494D3D81000DCF3E00000A862216538496C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>

Bryan
Traction fails 
Vehicle responds by moving the rearend out
Driver corrects
Caster causes weight transfer to the inside front, and outside rear
Opps it fishtails 
Once ,twice ,then spins
It does not help maintain L.S. it destabilizes it when it happens
Nebulous Theorem
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Bryan Savage <b.a.savage at wildblue.net> 

> 
> OK, I'll bite Jack. How does caster relate to maintaining lateral stability? 
> 
> Bryan 
> 
> 
> NT788 at comcast.net wrote: 
> > Consider 1to 3 degrees of caster!Jack 

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Dec 20 15:05:24 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:05:24 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
Message-ID: <3B73F562EA5C423A95EA6C8B81C795CC@dim8100>

Great idea, Mayf. I have been working on the same thing myself but only as a
means to quickly deploy a chute. I have contacted Systron Donner
www.systron.com <http://www.systron.com/>  and have quotes on a couple of
devices. Some of the prices are shocking ($2,300) but I'm waiting for a
low-cost quote on a new device.  I'm not as interested in saving a run as
much as saving the driver and car. By replaying countless spin films (thanks
Hooley and others) you can see a rate sensor would respond incredibly faster
than a human to get the chute out. I don't anticipate any rules issues as it
is a safety device for chute deployment. . . the run is over by then. I'm
also considering yaw angle, rather than rate, as the trigger mechanism.
Initial rate may be too slow, and then become constant, which may never
trigger the device. Angle limits work regardless of rate. That is why your
research is so incredibly interesting. Quantifying the trigger angle is the
unknown!



I'll have to disagree with Keith in that the human response time (seat of
the pants) is far too slow in many situations. Yes, it varies with driver
experience, car type, and salt conditions.  But the fact that spins occur
proves the point. A tiny quartz rate-sensor is far more sensitive than
anybody's gluteus maximus.   -Elon

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Dec 20 16:02:17 2008
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:02:17 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
References: <3B73F562EA5C423A95EA6C8B81C795CC@dim8100>
Message-ID: <FA52BF7D43484A928FF0ABB5890F7AEB@keithhrijwmm4p>

I've talk to Bob Stroud at lenght about an emergency chute... but I don't 
want a switch or electronic device to deploy it for me...

Every single Nitrous Safety device I've used on the Camaro at Bonneville has 
failed ruining some great or not so great runs as a result... hence I don't 
run Nitrous safety devices... I count on the driver to have a brain... and 
some degree of personal control...

Just my thoughts... I've enjoyed the comments and look forward to the new 
idea's...

Keith 

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 20 16:45:19 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:45:19 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR  A U.S. map we can understand
Message-ID: <46F3412E6F2B42E7A852762523D20963@mydf7618c59bbf>

You may not find this funny but if you watch the news and read the papers it's
not very far off...............Enjoy

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ATT00077.jpg]

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Dec 20 18:08:00 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:08:00 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <FA52BF7D43484A928FF0ABB5890F7AEB@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <3B73F562EA5C423A95EA6C8B81C795CC@dim8100>
	<FA52BF7D43484A928FF0ABB5890F7AEB@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <381E9A9D86BA4BF98F0AF3189F534A3E@DaveSatellite>

which ones i was there for all that i can remember and none from a design 
syandpoint that i can think of....
dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>; "land-speed submit" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control


> I've talk to Bob Stroud at lenght about an emergency chute... but I don't 
> want a switch or electronic device to deploy it for me...
>
> Every single Nitrous Safety device I've used on the Camaro at Bonneville 
> has failed ruining some great or not so great runs as a result... hence I 
> don't run Nitrous safety devices... I count on the driver to have a 
> brain... and some degree of personal control...
>
> Just my thoughts... I've enjoyed the comments and look forward to the new 
> idea's...
>
> Keith _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as ddahlgren at snet.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 20 21:03:17 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:03:17 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR  A U.S. map we can understand
References: <46F3412E6F2B42E7A852762523D20963@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<494DAB35.2080305@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <04966A49C0D6410DBB097FA16236FC37@mydf7618c59bbf>

Sorry gang it removes it automatically..I'll if I can get my daughter to 
send it a different way



> J.D. the land-speed server removes all attachments. send it directly?
>
> mayf
> J.D. Tone wrote:
>
>>You may not find this funny but if you watch the news and read the papers 
>>it's
>>not very far off...............Enjoy

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Dec 20 21:13:28 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:13:28 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  YAW Control
Message-ID: <DCEAFD8B6EBF42FFACA1F04E11124FCB@DaveSatellite>

sent this once but never got back to me so assume no one else either..
Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>; "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>; 
"land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control


> which ones i was there for all that i can remember and none from a design 
> standpoint that i can think of....
> dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
> To: "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>; "land-speed submit" 
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 6:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
>
>
>> I've talk to Bob Stroud at lenght about an emergency chute... but I don't 
>> want a switch or electronic device to deploy it for me...
>>
>> Every single Nitrous Safety device I've used on the Camaro at Bonneville 
>> has failed ruining some great or not so great runs as a result... hence I 
>> don't run Nitrous safety devices... I count on the driver to have a 
>> brain... and some degree of personal control...
>>
>> Just my thoughts... I've enjoyed the comments and look forward to the new 
>> idea's...
>>
>> Keith _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> You are subscribed as ddahlgren at snet.net
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Dec 20 22:39:33 2008
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:39:33 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] [BULK] Fw:  YAW Control
References: <DCEAFD8B6EBF42FFACA1F04E11124FCB@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <B9298908A9BB43A7BFE38EC790D67660@keithhrijwmm4p>

Dave at the end of the Berkeley's life for us... I was serious about 
building an emergency chute designed with the that express purpose...  the 
chutes in the car as we used them were designed for slowing and bringing the 
car down from fairly large speeds... ( 300 + mph ).... my intent of the 
Emergency chute was an Eye Popping... somewhat dangerous device used to 
immediately to bring the car back to a normal position...

K
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: "lsr list autox" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:13 PM
Subject: [BULK][Land-speed] Fw: YAW Control


> X-SpamDetect-Info: ------------- Start ASpam results ---------------
> X-SpamDetect-Info: This message may be spam. This message BODY has been 
> altered to show you the spam information X-SpamDetect: ******: 6.100000 
> From4consonants=0.5, SPF Default Fail=1.0, X-Verify-Failed present=2.0, 
> Dns Paranoid fail=1.0, X-Verify-MX present=1.6
> X-SpamDetect-Info: ------------- End ASpam results -----------------
>
> sent this once but never got back to me so assume no one else either..
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>
> To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>; "Elon" <saltfever at comcast.net>; 
> "land-speed submit" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
>
>
>> which ones i was there for all that i can remember and none from a design 
>> standpoint that i can think of....
>> dave

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Dec 20 23:39:30 2008
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:39:30 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Non-LSR  A U.S. map we can understand
In-Reply-To: <04966A49C0D6410DBB097FA16236FC37@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <46F3412E6F2B42E7A852762523D20963@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<494DAB35.2080305@mayfco.com>
	<04966A49C0D6410DBB097FA16236FC37@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <494DE4A2.7080402@wildblue.net>

Give us a search argument..

Bryan


J.D. Tone wrote:
> Sorry gang it removes it automatically..I'll if I can get my daughter 
> to send it a different way
>
>
>
>> J.D. the land-speed server removes all attachments. send it directly?
>>
>> mayf
>> J.D. Tone wrote:
>>
>>> You may not find this funny but if you watch the news and read the 
>>> papers it's
>>> not very far off...............Enjoy
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as b.a.savage at wildblue.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Dec 21 06:55:55 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 8:55:55 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <3B73F562EA5C423A95EA6C8B81C795CC@dim8100>
Message-ID: <20081221085555.7NAS1.128718.imail@eastrmwml43>

 A tiny quartz rate-sensor is far more sensitive than
> anybody's gluteus maximus.   -Elon

Preach on Brother---preach on----so-so-true!!!!!!!!!!!

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun Dec 21 09:56:45 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:56:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <3B73F562EA5C423A95EA6C8B81C795CC@dim8100>
References: <3B73F562EA5C423A95EA6C8B81C795CC@dim8100>
Message-ID: <CE8898C7B2CE4B3890941B7B7362483E@DBTech>

Elon;

It looks like Analog Devices has developed a nice line of integrated
sensors-- accelerometers, shock sensors, and rate gyros. Their distributor's
catalog page is here:  http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T083/P2451.pdf

More detail can be found on the Analog Devices website.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Elon
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:05 PM
To: land-speed submit
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control

Great idea, Mayf. I have been working on the same thing myself but only as a
means to quickly deploy a chute. I have contacted Systron Donner
www.systron.com <http://www.systron.com/>  and have quotes on a couple of
devices. Some of the prices are shocking ($2,300) but I'm waiting for a
low-cost quote on a new device.  I'm not as interested in saving a run as
much as saving the driver and car. By replaying countless spin films (thanks
Hooley and others) you can see a rate sensor would respond incredibly faster
than a human to get the chute out. I don't anticipate any rules issues as it
is a safety device for chute deployment. . . the run is over by then. I'm
also considering yaw angle, rather than rate, as the trigger mechanism.
Initial rate may be too slow, and then become constant, which may never
trigger the device. Angle limits work regardless of rate. That is why your
research is so incredibly interesting. Quantifying the trigger angle is the
unknown!



I'll have to disagree with Keith in that the human response time (seat of
the pants) is far too slow in many situations. Yes, it varies with driver
experience, car type, and salt conditions.  But the fact that spins occur
proves the point. A tiny quartz rate-sensor is far more sensitive than
anybody's gluteus maximus.   -Elon
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun Dec 21 10:20:14 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:20:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <CE8898C7B2CE4B3890941B7B7362483E@DBTech>
References: <3B73F562EA5C423A95EA6C8B81C795CC@dim8100>
	<CE8898C7B2CE4B3890941B7B7362483E@DBTech>
Message-ID: <5905F6253D814F47B7D19B646CA0E36A@DBTech>

Elon;

This is a presentation by ADI on their sensors: 

http://dkc1.digikey.com/us/en/tod/Adi/iSensor/iSensor.html

The prices of these IC sensors are pretty reasonable compared to other types
of sensors.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of neil at dbelltech.com
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:57 AM
To: 'Elon'; 'land-speed submit'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control

Elon;

It looks like Analog Devices has developed a nice line of integrated
sensors-- accelerometers, shock sensors, and rate gyros. Their distributor's
catalog page is here:  http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T083/P2451.pdf

More detail can be found on the Analog Devices website.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Elon
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:05 PM
To: land-speed submit
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control

Great idea, Mayf. I have been working on the same thing myself but only as a
means to quickly deploy a chute. I have contacted Systron Donner
www.systron.com <http://www.systron.com/>  and have quotes on a couple of
devices. Some of the prices are shocking ($2,300) but I'm waiting for a
low-cost quote on a new device.  I'm not as interested in saving a run as
much as saving the driver and car. By replaying countless spin films (thanks
Hooley and others) you can see a rate sensor would respond incredibly faster
than a human to get the chute out. I don't anticipate any rules issues as it
is a safety device for chute deployment. . . the run is over by then. I'm
also considering yaw angle, rather than rate, as the trigger mechanism.
Initial rate may be too slow, and then become constant, which may never
trigger the device. Angle limits work regardless of rate. That is why your
research is so incredibly interesting. Quantifying the trigger angle is the
unknown!



I'll have to disagree with Keith in that the human response time (seat of
the pants) is far too slow in many situations. Yes, it varies with driver
experience, car type, and salt conditions.  But the fact that spins occur
proves the point. A tiny quartz rate-sensor is far more sensitive than
anybody's gluteus maximus.   -Elon
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Dec 21 16:42:51 2008
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:42:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Capitol Of The World - Bonneville - Primeres
 Tues. Dec. 15th.
References: <122020081810.5790.494D35110001182D0000169E2216538496C8C8C9ABB2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001501c963c5$d69e5e60$6401a8c0@ZTxp>

I'll have to take your word for it!

be safe.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <NT788 at comcast.net>
To: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>; <jgmagoo at comcast.net>; 
"land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Speed Capitol Of The World - Bonneville - Primeres 
Tues. Dec. 15th.


> Its Good to be the star!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
>
>> Are you the star of the show??????????????????????
>>
>> I appreciate the reminder!
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
>> [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
>> jgmagoo at comcast.net
>> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 2:58 PM
>> To: land-speed-digest
>> Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Capitol Of The World - Bonneville - Primeres
>> Tues. Dec. 15th.
>>
>> Speed Capital of the World: Bonneville- Premieres Tuesday, 10PM (EST) on
>> Discovery Channel _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> You are subscribed as davidadin at mercydurango.org
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> You are subscribed as nt788 at comcast.net
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as adin at frontier.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun Dec 21 18:53:28 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:53:28 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
Message-ID: <4B061A62BD5B4564A7FB043D3E9DDE72@john>

Why not a small ruder that's steered by the relative wind that dumps the 
high speed chute through a microswitch and solenoid at X degrees yaw . 
Details like unintentional activation and not interfeering with manuel chute 
operation would be easy . 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Dec 21 18:55:08 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:55:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Killinger and Freund Motorcycle
Message-ID: <6C8627D8BA4E4745A28B96A30449F2A6@Glens>

Check it out.

Glen

----- Original Message -----
Subject: Killinger and Freund Motorcycle



http://greyfalcon.us/Killinger%20and%20Freund%20Motorcycle.htm


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---




I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter
We are a community of 5.7 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 2312 of my spam emails to date.
The Professional version does not have this message

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Dec 21 19:23:46 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:23:46 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Killinger and Freund Motorcycle
In-Reply-To: <6C8627D8BA4E4745A28B96A30449F2A6@Glens>
References: <6C8627D8BA4E4745A28B96A30449F2A6@Glens>
Message-ID: <494EFA32.7040404@mayfco.com>

Well, now, that is just different!  Back in th eolden days when the 
rotary LaRohone engine was used in airplanes it had lots of turning 
issues because of the motor spinning while the crank was held 
stationary. I wonder if this also had similar issues.  But why stop with 
the front wheel? This could have been a dual motor application with one 
in the rear also.  Pretty nifty. I wonder how loud it was since it 
appears the pipes just dumped. 

Nice catch, Glen

mayf
Glen Barrett wrote:

>Check it out.
>
>Glen
>
>----- Original Message -----
>Subject: Killinger and Freund Motorcycle
>
>
>
>http://greyfalcon.us/Killinger%20and%20Freund%20Motorcycle.htm
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>---
>
>
>
>
>I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter
>We are a community of 5.7 million users fighting spam.
>SPAMfighter has removed 2312 of my spam emails to date.
>The Professional version does not have this message
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Dec 21 20:24:46 2008
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:24:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Happy Holiday
Message-ID: <000801c963e4$d6bd18e0$6401a8c0@ZTxp>

this page has some nice images . . . .

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318694&page=2

From jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org  Mon Dec 22 07:45:20 2008
From: jonwennerberg at nancyandjon.org (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:45:20 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Killinger and Freund Motorcycle
In-Reply-To: <6C8627D8BA4E4745A28B96A30449F2A6@Glens>
References: <6C8627D8BA4E4745A28B96A30449F2A6@Glens>
Message-ID: <63D0BE6D-6355-42C0-BB72-2BCE34390537@nancyandjon.org>

On Dec 21, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Glen Barrett wrote:

Check it out.

Glen

----- Original Message -----
Subject: Killinger and Freund Motorcycle


http://greyfalcon.us/Killinger%20and%20Freund%20Motorcycle.htm


Somewhere around here I've got a 20 x 30 poster of the Megola  
motorcycle - with the five-cylinder engine in the front wheel.  Better  
than just seeing the full-color thing -- I got the poster at the "Art  
of the Motorcycle" show when it went through Chicago a few years ago.   
What were there -- like a hundred or more iconic bikes of history.   
And one of them belonged to one of the LSR folks -- Larry Forstall,  
from Pennsylvania, had (I think it was) a Ducati in the exhibition.   
One of those bikes with only a mile or two on the odo -- and those  
miles were from rolling the bike into this and out of that exhibition  
over the years.

Back to the Megola -- if I can find a photo I'll post it.  Quite an  
interesting concept.  No streamlining, like the K - and - F, though.


       Jon Wennerberg
Tall guy with moustache
and a pair of 2 Club hats

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Dec 22 09:40:02 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:40:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Killinger and Freund Motorcycle
In-Reply-To: <6C8627D8BA4E4745A28B96A30449F2A6@Glens>
References: <6C8627D8BA4E4745A28B96A30449F2A6@Glens>
Message-ID: <4F21B3153B974A18B2C42E6C0E9CD269@DBTech>

A front wheel drive motorcycle-- interesting; thanks, Glen.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glen Barrett
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:55 PM
To: Glenn Freudenberger; Jonathan Amo; jon wennnerberg; Dan Warner; kent
riches; landspeed at autox.team.net; james tone
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Killinger and Freund Motorcycle

Check it out.

Glen

----- Original Message -----
Subject: Killinger and Freund Motorcycle



http://greyfalcon.us/Killinger%20and%20Freund%20Motorcycle.htm


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From ddahlgren at snet.net  Mon Dec 22 15:45:57 2008
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (Dave Dahlgren)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:45:57 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] [BULK] Fw:  YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <B9298908A9BB43A7BFE38EC790D67660@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <DCEAFD8B6EBF42FFACA1F04E11124FCB@DaveSatellite>
	<B9298908A9BB43A7BFE38EC790D67660@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <FF14B415AAA549929F194DF70DF44A07@DaveSatellite>

What I took great exception to was the nitrous never worked right.. your 
quote....the only safety device was an rpm switch from MSD as an interlock 
so if for some reason the rpm dropped too low we would not knock the 
bearings out.. Seemed to work every time I was there. Maybe I was day 
dreaming and missed the failure though doubt it to be candid. I take a 
tremendous amount of pride in my accomplishments on the salt and you have 
disparaged them in my mind.. pretty sad at the end of the day to be 
honest... I have helped a bunch of people set records including you and 
Tonya the last email you sent diminished that a great deal and as I said I 
take great offense at that. If it makes you feel better great but as well 
you know the real deal... sigh.... This note is starting to convince me 
anything other than a personal effort a large waste of time to be candid... 
Sort of like how we were all set for tickets to the 2 club banquet until I 
got there and there were none.. you and Tonya had too many guests and I was 
free crew other than a plane ticket.. taken for granted an understatement in 
my mind.. bigger sigh.. it's the old deal what comes around goes around but 
have no time for make believe stories that are self serving just does not 
play well here or anywhere for that matter.. I do forgive though never 
forget I guess it is all about being the old sage and bling factor for you I 
have none nor need any... In the end I am truly disappointed in you.... The 
only person I ever met with disposable friends...
Dave

Here it is..
Every single Nitrous Safety device I've used on the Camaro at Bonneville has
failed ruining some great or not so great runs as a result... hence I don't
run Nitrous safety devices... I count on the driver to have a brain... and
some degree of personal control...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren at snet.net>; "lsr list autox" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [BULK][Land-speed] Fw: YAW Control


> Dave at the end of the Berkeley's life for us... I was serious about 
> building an emergency chute designed with the that express purpose...  the 
> chutes in the car as we used them were designed for slowing and bringing 
> the car down from fairly large speeds... ( 300 + mph ).... my intent of 
> the Emergency chute was an Eye Popping... somewhat dangerous device used 
> to immediately to bring the car back to a normal position...
>
> K

From kturk at ala.net  Mon Dec 22 15:52:49 2008
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:52:49 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] [BULK] Fw:  YAW Control
References: <DCEAFD8B6EBF42FFACA1F04E11124FCB@DaveSatellite><B9298908A9BB43A7BFE38EC790D67660@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<FF14B415AAA549929F194DF70DF44A07@DaveSatellite>
Message-ID: <F5FF3303B199475CBA3293FE412E4916@keithhrijwmm4p>

Dave... as the tuner you took them off...

The Fuel pressure low switch and the Throttle switch... both caused us 
problems...  None of this was "your" fault in anyway and Please accept my 
apology if any of that felt directed.... Truly it wasn't directed at you... 
but the two parts we removed that in fact hurt us several times before YOU 
sorted it out...

I've given you immense credit in the past and you deserve every bit of it... 
Thank you for every minute of your efforts...

Keith 

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Dec 22 17:01:04 2008
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:01:04 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] [BULK] Fw:  YAW Control
References: <DCEAFD8B6EBF42FFACA1F04E11124FCB@DaveSatellite><B9298908A9BB43A7BFE38EC790D67660@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<FF14B415AAA549929F194DF70DF44A07@DaveSatellite>
	<F5FF3303B199475CBA3293FE412E4916@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <49502A40.00001F.03944@HOME>

Keith and Dave,

This is all about friendship. I have had my great days and many more not so
good ones and I suspect that you have too.  Come on guys, let's not get too
wrapped up in our failures and successes and who is responsible. I admire
what you guys have done on the salt, but remember that is the place that
will jump up and ruin your day at times.

It has been my experience that sometimes things that are suppose to make it
fool-proof, simple fail and are better left in the tool box. The more simple
the system the better. The main thing that I will not accept on a nitrous
system is a full throttle only switch. Quarter mile is a different scene,
but at Bonneville or Lakes, I like to back out of the throttle somewhat when
engaging the nitrous and if I have to peddle it a bit down course, I don't
want to lose the nitrous. This has always work well for me.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

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From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 22 23:09:26 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:09:26 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: 1932 Helicron
Message-ID: <AD9467F5B9CA403FA545807DEC70D0A3@mydf7618c59bbf>

>From my daughter in Florida...........Can this be a friend of
Glens??????????????????????????







        1932 Helicron
        In the late 1930s this one-of-a-kind Helicron was placed in a barn and
forgotten. More than six decades later this odd lost little gem was
rediscovered, rebuilt, and reintroduced to the world. Although the
manufacturer is unknown, it's believed that this car was built in  France
1932. Following the first World War it was not uncommon for recently displaced
airplane engineers to look towards the automobile industry for employment.

        As in this example, a few entrepreneurs developed propeller-powered
cars with the notion that propeller power was an efficient means of moving a
vehicle.On this car, when the wooden propeller is spinning at full speed and
efficiently, this little 1,000-pound boat-tailed skiff can hit freeway speeds
exceeding 75 mph. This is the one and only Helicron in existence, owned by
Lane MotorMuseum in  Nashville ,  TN.



















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From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Dec 22 23:21:00 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:21:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: 1932 Helicron
In-Reply-To: <AD9467F5B9CA403FA545807DEC70D0A3@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <AD9467F5B9CA403FA545807DEC70D0A3@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <56A3ED00-EAFE-42AB-8C47-26CAD22AF8BA@comcast.net>

Naaah, not old enough.

Wes

On Dec 22, 2008, at 11:09 PM, J.D. Tone wrote:

>> From my daughter in Florida...........Can this be a friend of
> Glens??????????????????????????
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>        1932 Helicron
>        In the late 1930s this one-of-a-kind Helicron was placed in a  
> barn and
> forgotten. More than six decades later this odd lost little gem was
> rediscovered, rebuilt, and reintroduced to the world. Although the
> manufacturer is unknown, it's believed that this car was built in   
> France
> 1932. Following the first World War it was not uncommon for recently  
> displaced
> airplane engineers to look towards the automobile industry for  
> employment.
>
>        As in this example, a few entrepreneurs developed propeller- 
> powered
> cars with the notion that propeller power was an efficient means of  
> moving a
> vehicle.On this car, when the wooden propeller is spinning at full  
> speed and
> efficiently, this little 1,000-pound boat-tailed skiff can hit  
> freeway speeds
> exceeding 75 mph. This is the one and only Helicron in existence,  
> owned by
> Lane MotorMuseum in  Nashville ,  TN.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>        One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,  
> Gmail, and
> Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations - including  
> songs for the
> holidays - FREE while you browse. Start Listening Now!
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a  
> name of ATT00013.jpg]
>
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> name of ATT00016.jpg]
>
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> name of ATT00019.jpg]
>
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>
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>
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> name of ATT00028.jpg]
>
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> name of ATT00031.jpg]
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Dec 22 23:56:20 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:56:20 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Sparky in Bonneville Racing News
Message-ID: <8737F47D-E872-4FE0-B61E-FF56E43C713C@comcast.net>

Nice article on Sparky Smith in the BRN I received today.  Also some  
fine photos by Ray the Rat and Cris Shearer illustrating other  
articles.  With four extra pages, a run down on records, red hats (and  
blue, green and maroon hats) from the racing this fall there's enough  
to hold a Saltaholic into 2009.

The Top 1 meet coverage on Burkland's 411 and Rocky and the Top 1 bike  
is worth reading and re-reading.  It brings back great memories and  
even Linda will find familiar things from her vantage point at the end  
of the road.

Thanks Wendy!

Wes

From kturk at ala.net  Tue Dec 23 05:19:07 2008
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:19:07 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] [BULK] Sparky in Bonneville Racing News
References: <8737F47D-E872-4FE0-B61E-FF56E43C713C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FD4E7DCC49624C83BFE271BE9E48D1D0@keithhrijwmm4p>

You know what.... Sparky ... ( aka Bill Smith )... totally stunned me this 
year with this performance...  couldn't be more proud of him and the SCTA 
...

They've worked hard together bringing that car up to a reasonable standard 
( It wasn't much when he bought it )...and Bill's just done a wonderful job 
with the HP to boot... and now he's enjoying the fruits of his many years 
labor...

Good on ya Bill...

Keith 

From neil at dbelltech.com  Tue Dec 23 10:01:38 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:01:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <4B061A62BD5B4564A7FB043D3E9DDE72@john>
References: <4B061A62BD5B4564A7FB043D3E9DDE72@john>
Message-ID: <EB524E85E5C34EFB8CE13E8C6B526906@DBTech>

John;

I like the simplicity but what about crosswinds?

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Burk
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:53 PM
To: LandSpeed List
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control

Why not a small ruder that's steered by the relative wind that dumps the 
high speed chute through a microswitch and solenoid at X degrees yaw . 
Details like unintentional activation and not interfeering with manuel chute

operation would be easy . 
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lowtek at ptd.net  Tue Dec 23 10:19:26 2008
From: lowtek at ptd.net (Richard Kensicki)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:19:26 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: 1932 Helicron & prop driven
In-Reply-To: <AD9467F5B9CA403FA545807DEC70D0A3@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <AD9467F5B9CA403FA545807DEC70D0A3@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <49511D9E.3060202@ptd.net>

Been sitting on this for a while waiting for someone to dip their toe in 
the waters of propeller driven again. Is there a place for twin engine 
prop driven motorcycles in the rules?
http://www.wackerengines.com/Gallery.htm
About 2/3rds the way down the page.

J.D. Tone wrote:
> >From my daughter in Florida...........Can this be a friend of
> Glens??????????????????????????
>
>
>         1932 Helicron
>         In the late 1930s this one-of-a-kind Helicron was placed in a barn and
> forgotten. More than six decades later this odd lost little gem was
> rediscovered, rebuilt, and reintroduced to the world. Although the
> manufacturer is unknown, it's believed that this car was built in  France
> 1932. Following the first World War it was not uncommon for recently displaced
> airplane engineers to look towards the automobile industry for employment.
>
>         As in this example, a few entrepreneurs developed propeller-powered
> cars with the notion that propeller power was an efficient means of moving a
> vehicle.On this car, when the wooden propeller is spinning at full speed and
> efficiently, this little 1,000-pound boat-tailed skiff can hit freeway speeds
> exceeding 75 mph. This is the one and only Helicron in existence, owned by
> Lane MotorMuseum in  Nashville ,  TN.
>
>   
-- 
RichK 

I could be wrong.
Your mileage may vary.    
Always wear a seatbelt.   
Don't drink and drive.

From jpszalay01 at insightbb.com  Tue Dec 23 12:32:43 2008
From: jpszalay01 at insightbb.com (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:32:43 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: 1932 Helicron  NO LSR but neat..
References: <AD9467F5B9CA403FA545807DEC70D0A3@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <748129043E834AEAB5EA5300C6A7F48F@531W>

>        1932 Helicron
>        In the late 1930s this one-of-a-kind Helicron was placed in a barn 
> and
> forgotten. More than six decades later this odd lost little gem was
> rediscovered, rebuilt, and reintroduced to the world. Although the
> manufacturer is unknown, it's believed that this car was built in  France
> 1932. Following the first World War it was not uncommon for recently 
> displaced
> airplane engineers to look towards the automobile industry for employment.
>
>        As in this example, a few entrepreneurs developed propeller-powered
> cars with the notion that propeller power was an efficient means of moving 
> a
> vehicle.On this car, when the wooden propeller is spinning at full speed 
> and
> efficiently, this little 1,000-pound boat-tailed skiff can hit freeway 
> speeds
> exceeding 75 mph. This is the one and only Helicron in existence, owned by
> Lane MotorMuseum in  Nashville ,  TN.
>
>


 Hey  There is even a youtube video of that one running..

Lord
 the pedestrian issues alone,  Don,t even Lloyds of London would take the 
insurance
on this street wise..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dv-gl6RCGc 

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Dec 23 14:27:10 2008
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:27:10 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: 1932 Helicron  NO LSR but neat..
Message-ID: <W675604670241411230067630@webmail24>

That must have REALLY been fun driving in the rain............
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: John Szalay [mailto:jpszalay01 at insightbb.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:32 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: 1932 Helicron NO LSR but neat..

> 1932 Helicron > In the late 1930s this one-of-a-kind Helicron was placed in
a barn > and > forgotten. More than six decades later this odd lost little gem
was > rediscovered, rebuilt, and reintroduced to the world. Although the >
manufacturer is unknown, it's believed that this car was built in France >
1932. Following the first World War it was not uncommon for recently >
displaced > airplane engineers to look towards the automobile industry for
employment. > > As in this example, a few entrepreneurs developed
propeller-powered > cars with the notion that propeller power was an efficient
means of moving > a > vehicle.On this car, when the wooden propeller is
spinning at full speed > and > efficiently, this little 1,000-pound
boat-tailed skiff can hit freeway > speeds > exceeding 75 mph. This is the one
and only Helicron in existence, owned by > Lane MotorMuseum in Nashville , TN.
> > Hey There is even a youtube video of that one running.. Lord the
pedestrian issues alone, Don,t even Lloyds of London would take the insurance
on this street wise.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dv-gl6RCGc

From neil at dbelltech.com  Tue Dec 23 14:36:55 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:36:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: 1932 Helicron  NO LSR but neat..
In-Reply-To: <W675604670241411230067630@webmail24>
References: <W675604670241411230067630@webmail24>
Message-ID: <CBADB9A7D3B84B589F81C14AD999DB8A@DBTech>

Ed;

Better rain than a big swarm of bugs!

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Van Scoy
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:27 PM
To: John Szalay; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: 1932 Helicron NO LSR but neat..

That must have REALLY been fun driving in the rain............
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: John Szalay [mailto:jpszalay01 at insightbb.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:32 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: 1932 Helicron NO LSR but neat..

> 1932 Helicron > In the late 1930s this one-of-a-kind Helicron was placed
in
a barn > and > forgotten. More than six decades later this odd lost little
gem
was > rediscovered, rebuilt, and reintroduced to the world. Although the >
manufacturer is unknown, it's believed that this car was built in France >
1932. Following the first World War it was not uncommon for recently >
displaced > airplane engineers to look towards the automobile industry for
employment. > > As in this example, a few entrepreneurs developed
propeller-powered > cars with the notion that propeller power was an
efficient
means of moving > a > vehicle.On this car, when the wooden propeller is
spinning at full speed > and > efficiently, this little 1,000-pound
boat-tailed skiff can hit freeway > speeds > exceeding 75 mph. This is the
one
and only Helicron in existence, owned by > Lane MotorMuseum in Nashville ,
TN.
> > Hey There is even a youtube video of that one running.. Lord the
pedestrian issues alone, Don,t even Lloyds of London would take the
insurance
on this street wise.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dv-gl6RCGc
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 23 15:03:39 2008
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:03:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: 1932 Helicron & prop driven
Message-ID: <19031782.1230069819857.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Is there a place for twin engine 
>prop driven motorcycles in the rules?

NO! Wheel driven only in the rules governed by the SCTA. Somebody else's rules who knows....

But you can rent a place and get some other sanctioning body to just about do anything if you have enough $$$$.  

From saltfevr at q.com  Tue Dec 23 19:09:02 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:09:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Sparky in Bonneville Racing News
In-Reply-To: <8737F47D-E872-4FE0-B61E-FF56E43C713C@comcast.net>
References: <8737F47D-E872-4FE0-B61E-FF56E43C713C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W34291750C63EB31D549CF2C9ED0@phx.gbl>

I agree Wester. Really great BRN issue. And oh yeah, The real story on how
"Sparky" got his name!! Why Bill, you devil you !! LOL

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah> From: wester6935 at comcast.net> To: land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:56:20 -0700> Subject: [Land-speed] Sparky in
Bonneville Racing News> > Nice article on Sparky Smith in the BRN I received
today. Also some > fine photos by Ray the Rat and Cris Shearer illustrating
other > articles. With four extra pages, a run down on records, red hats (and
> blue, green and maroon hats) from the racing this fall there's enough > to
hold a Saltaholic into 2009.> > The Top 1 meet coverage on Burkland's 411 and
Rocky and the Top 1 bike > is worth reading and re-reading. It brings back
great memories and > even Linda will find familiar things from her vantage
point at the end > of the road.> > Thanks Wendy!> > Wes>
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are
subscribed as saltfevr at q.com> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Tue Dec 23 19:43:18 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:43:18 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
Message-ID: <A649DA32AD07434A8145F50FAC2B2723@john>

Neil

If the ruder was sprung to center the crosswind wouldn't exert the 
triggering force unless the car was going fairly fast .


> John;
>
> I like the simplicity but what about crosswinds?
>
> Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Burk
> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:53 PM
> To: LandSpeed List
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
>
> Why not a small ruder that's steered by the relative wind that dumps the
> high speed chute through a microswitch and solenoid at X degrees yaw .
> Details like unintentional activation and not interfeering with manuel 
> chute
>
> operation would be easy .
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Wed Dec 24 09:31:25 2008
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:31:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] old jackets
Message-ID: <F65754F39ABABE41B43CC86C276D4D05196919@chimsx015.CHI.catholichealth.net>

Guy on the hamb list says he bought this - "crew chief" on the front . .
. .

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268312&d=
1169667917

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From kturk at ala.net  Wed Dec 24 15:52:51 2008
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:52:51 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] a Christmas story...
Message-ID: <FA237111B83D48379419C28D9701A5B7@keithhrijwmm4p>

I just had to share this...

You guys know I don't do this... but this was worth it...

http://www.nhra.com/content/news/34465.htm

K

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Dec 24 16:53:41 2008
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:53:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] a Christmas story...
In-Reply-To: <FA237111B83D48379419C28D9701A5B7@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <FA237111B83D48379419C28D9701A5B7@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <50D1CF9A0F0B4AF1A7AE2C4C6AB0072B@DBTech>

That's a really great story-- thanks Keith. Merry Christmas to you and
Tonya.

 

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

 

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Keith Turk
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 3:53 PM
To: 'LSR'
Subject: [Land-speed] a Christmas story...

 

I just had to share this...

 

You guys know I don't do this... but this was worth it...

 

http://www.nhra.com/content/news/34465.htm

 

 

K
Land-speed mailing list

 

You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com

 

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Wed Dec 24 19:11:04 2008
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:11:04 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
Message-ID: <F6B61A04124C4B88B3053857BB5D657F@john>

Somebody had a malfunction of a device where ride height automatically
adjusted wing pitch so they don't allow that now . The driver is still allowed
to adjust the wing during a run .



>DO the rules have any requirements for all wings or the sort to be fixed?

>JR Streeter
>S & H Landspeed Racing
www.saltfever.com




> From: joyseydevil at comcast.net
> To: Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:43:18 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
>
> Neil
>
> If the ruder was sprung to center the crosswind wouldn't exert the
> triggering force unless the car was going fairly fast .
>
>
> > John;
> >
> > I like the simplicity but what about crosswinds?
> >
> > Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
> > [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Burk
> > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:53 PM
> > To: LandSpeed List
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
> >
> > Why not a small ruder that's steered by the relative wind that dumps the
> > high speed chute through a microswitch and solenoid at X degrees yaw .
> > Details like unintentional activation and not interfeering with manuel
> > chute
> >
> > operation would be easy .
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as jrstreeter at msn.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
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how

From saltfevr at q.com  Wed Dec 24 22:24:51 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:24:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Enola Gay Hangar Rebuilt
Message-ID: <BAY122-W18A951B064A86BF28D06AEC9EA0@phx.gbl>

The famed Enola Gay Hangar at Historic Wendover Airfield will receive $450,000
from "Save Americas Treasures" Fund! Its about time this piece of history is
saved for future generations. I'm sure you've been sickened as I, to see the
deplorable condition of this hallowed piece of US history. Sure wish the State
of Utah had seen fit to right this wrong.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705270763,00.htmlTom ShannonMagna,
Utah

From saltfevr at q.com  Wed Dec 24 23:12:03 2008
From: saltfevr at q.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:12:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] a Christmas story...
In-Reply-To: <FA237111B83D48379419C28D9701A5B7@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <FA237111B83D48379419C28D9701A5B7@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W84C5622C6455727613245C9EA0@phx.gbl>

KT;

Thanks for posting this link. After 6 yrs.,this Force story is still great.
Heres one from this week, where Force opens up about Eric Medlen,therapy,and
todays economy.
http://www.go2geiger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=bl
og&id=25&Itemid=48
Tom Shannon


Magna, Utah> From: kturk at ala.net> To: land-speed at autox.team.net> Date: Wed, 24
Dec 2008 16:52:51 -0600> Subject: [Land-speed] a Christmas story...> > I just
had to share this...> > You guys know I don't do this... but this was worth
it...> > http://www.nhra.com/content/news/34465.htm> > K>
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Land-speed mailing list> > You are
subscribed as saltfevr at q.com> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From websters at pyramid.net  Thu Dec 25 07:04:14 2008
From: websters at pyramid.net (Dan)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 06:04:14 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] (no subject)
Message-ID: <000d01c96699$b0585c20$6401a8c0@gateway>

Good Morning to all and Merry Christmas.  May you have a great Christmas and
New Year.
Take Care  Dan Webster # 313 Carson City, Nevada

From fosterap at flash.net  Thu Dec 25 08:03:40 2008
From: fosterap at flash.net (JERRY FOSTER)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 07:03:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <000d01c96699$b0585c20$6401a8c0@gateway>
Message-ID: <831725.80309.qm@web80605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ditto from Jerry in Dallas....


--- On Thu, 12/25/08, Dan <websters at pyramid.net> wrote:

From: Dan <websters at pyramid.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] (no subject)
To: "land speed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 8:04 AM

Good Morning to all and Merry Christmas.  May you have a great Christmas and
New Year.
Take Care  Dan Webster # 313 Carson City, Nevada

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 25 08:24:44 2008
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 07:24:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Land-speed] YAW Control
In-Reply-To: <F6B61A04124C4B88B3053857BB5D657F@john>
Message-ID: <321598.10556.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

That may be an ECTA rule but, does not apply to SCTA competition.
 
DW

--- On Wed, 12/24/08, John Burk <joyseydevil at comcast.net> wrote:

From: John Burk <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 6:11 PM

Somebody had a malfunction of a device where ride height automatically
adjusted wing pitch so they don't allow that now . The driver is still
allowed
to adjust the wing during a run .



>DO the rules have any requirements for all wings or the sort to be fixed?

>JR Streeter
>S & H Landspeed Racing
www.saltfever.com




> From: joyseydevil at comcast.net
> To: Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:43:18 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
>
> Neil
>
> If the ruder was sprung to center the crosswind wouldn't exert the
> triggering force unless the car was going fairly fast .
>
>
> > John;
> >
> > I like the simplicity but what about crosswinds?
> >
> > Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
> > [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Burk
> > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:53 PM
> > To: LandSpeed List
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
> >
> > Why not a small ruder that's steered by the relative wind that
dumps the
> > high speed chute through a microswitch and solenoid at X degrees yaw
.
> > Details like unintentional activation and not interfeering with
manuel
> > chute
> >
> > operation would be easy .
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as jrstreeter at msn.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed


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Life on your PC is safer, easier, and more enjoyable with Windows Vista.. See
how
Land-speed mailing list

You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at ala.net  Thu Dec 25 09:38:38 2008
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:38:38 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Wing Control...
References: <321598.10556.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9FF2E1B8657140A6BB71C61C4AC715E9@keithhrijwmm4p>

Nope Dan... we don't out law it... maybe Drag racing huh?... LOL

Keith
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>; "John Burk" 
<joyseydevil at comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control


> That may be an ECTA rule but, does not apply to SCTA competition.
>
> DW
>
> --- On Wed, 12/24/08, John Burk <joyseydevil at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> From: John Burk <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
> To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 6:11 PM
>
> Somebody had a malfunction of a device where ride height automatically
> adjusted wing pitch so they don't allow that now . The driver is still
> allowed
> to adjust the wing during a run .
>
>
>
>>DO the rules have any requirements for all wings or the sort to be fixed?
>
>>JR Streeter
>>S & H Landspeed Racing
> www.saltfever.com
>
>
>
>
>> From: joyseydevil at comcast.net
>> To: Land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:43:18 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> If the ruder was sprung to center the crosswind wouldn't exert the
>> triggering force unless the car was going fairly fast .
>>
>>
>> > John;
>> >
>> > I like the simplicity but what about crosswinds?
>> >
>> > Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
>> > [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Burk
>> > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:53 PM
>> > To: LandSpeed List
>> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] YAW Control
>> >
>> > Why not a small ruder that's steered by the relative wind that
> dumps the
>> > high speed chute through a microswitch and solenoid at X degrees yaw
> .
>> > Details like unintentional activation and not interfeering with
> manuel
>> > chute
>> >
>> > operation would be easy .
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> >
>> > Land-speed mailing list
>> >
>> > You are subscribed as neil at dbelltech.com
>> >
>> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> You are subscribed as jrstreeter at msn.com
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> Life on your PC is safer, easier, and more enjoyable with Windows Vista.. 
> See
> how
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as dwarner230 at yahoo.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as kturk at adelphia.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at ala.net  Thu Dec 25 09:39:20 2008
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:39:20 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Wing Control...
Message-ID: <6D66621F4D37443A8777E0DFC1F3E53C@keithhrijwmm4p>

> Nope Dan... we don't out law it... maybe Drag racing huh?... LOL
> 
> Keith

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Thu Dec 25 12:06:00 2008
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (sparky.2211 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 14:06:00 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] KUDO's
Message-ID: <20081225140600.WSO9A.262290.imail@fed1rmwml34>

To all who called, e-mailled and LIST posted---thanks again for all of your kind and supportive words.

If nothing changes but the RAT we will be back in '09!!!!!!!  He is in the shop and we will be making some small changes and trying to install our Data Logging System.  Maybe just maybe we will be able to figure some of this out.

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Fri Dec 26 12:55:23 2008
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:55:23 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] GREAT OLD BONNEVILLE PICTURES
Message-ID: <122620081955.5689.495536AB000048980000163922007503300101090E030906@comcast.net>

Hey Guys,
Some guy on the H.A.M.B discovered a box of old Bonneville, Daytona, Dry Lakes, Pikes Peak and early dry lakes pictures that he bought at an estate sale and posted some of them on the H.A.M.B. 

Here's the link.  Check 'em out.  ENJOY!

I'll bet some of you guys can identify a bunch of them!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319789


JGMagoo
Silverthorne, Colorado

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Dec 26 12:59:38 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:59:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Enola Gay Hangar Rebuilt
References: <BAY122-W18A951B064A86BF28D06AEC9EA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BF8996B993594EED82651843EABD2C9D@Glens>

Anyone with the interest in the history of Wendover should order the book 
Wendover-winds of change, by Ronald Bateman. It covers the air base during 
the whole WW-ll and the Enola Gay, the Bonneville salt flats and much more.
The ISBN #  0-9745983-2-1
You won't regret the investment.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Shannon" <saltfevr at q.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:24 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] (non lsr) Enola Gay Hangar Rebuilt


> The famed Enola Gay Hangar at Historic Wendover Airfield will receive 
> $450,000
> from "Save Americas Treasures" Fund! Its about time this piece of history 
> is
> saved for future generations. I'm sure you've been sickened as I, to see 
> the
> deplorable condition of this hallowed piece of US history. Sure wish the 
> State
> of Utah had seen fit to right this wrong.
> http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705270763,00.htmlTom 
> ShannonMagna,
> Utah
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> You are subscribed as speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> 


-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
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From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sun Dec 28 21:57:16 2008
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:57:16 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] 7-Page Article About Richard Noble's New
	Car>From>JGMagoo
Message-ID: <122920080457.1755.495858AC000D4F7F000006DB22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>

There's an interesting 7-page article about Richard Nobles design and plans for his new 1,000-MPH land speed record car in the January 2009 issue of 'Racecar Engineering' magazine. 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Dec 30 11:30:39 2008
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:30:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Chat tonoght
Message-ID: <1BAEA777FC6448BC9F54958CFE5EFB97@Glens>

Don't forget the Tuesday nite chat on www.landracing.com
Last chance this year to pick on people, answer questions and good LSR talk.
7:00 pm Mountain time

--
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From yesford at clear.net.nz  Tue Dec 30 21:12:23 2008
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:12:23 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Happy New Year.
Message-ID: <6E648736DACA4C3E87F046883F84BB5F@ChrisHarrisPC>

Well it's New Years eve 'Down Under' so here's wishing all on this LSR list 
the very best for the coming year.
Looking back we've had a very volatile past 12 months in all areas of our 
everyday lives, so here's to more settled times ahead.

Last few days I've been putting thought into the layout of a new dry sump 
engine pan. Sure there's plenty of a proven design on Ebay, ex NASCAR and 
the like. They tend to be fairly shallow and we've room for quiet a deep pan 
which is desirable, and I want to maintain.  For the scavenge pick-ups in 
the bottom of the pan, which work best, a boxed pick-up with a filter screen 
or just scavenge tubes with external line filters outside the pan.

The boxed pick-up style most common, so is there some fluid dynamics at play 
here, or just the better way to filter.

Kind regards,
Chris, Lesley & Lincoln Harris......................NZed. 

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 30 22:48:47 2008
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug .............)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 05:48:47 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Happy New Year.
In-Reply-To: <6E648736DACA4C3E87F046883F84BB5F@ChrisHarrisPC>
References: <6E648736DACA4C3E87F046883F84BB5F@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W4254908DEEE5C5FA19DABAD9E40@phx.gbl>

      I wish you the VERY BEST  Happy New Year that you ever had my friend
       Here's to you & yours !      -and to EVERYONE  on the LSR List as well
!

cheers !   'Dirt Track Doug '



       -105 + miles south of the world famous 'Syracuse
Mile '
       -241.4  miles north of the Williams Grove Speedway pit gate
       -2247  or so miles due east of the marvelous Bonneville Salt
Flats

but never more than a few feet from a cold one         Cold Beer, Hot Blues,
and warm willin' wimin' is what we're all about....

             Speedway Bikes, Minibikes and Harley- D's rode with equal joy,
Dog Training,   Bear neutering,  Emergency Airship repair,  Hot air ,
                  Aerial Surveillance, Corrupt Politicians exposed,  Midgets,
Sprint Cars

                              -and 'Slide Jobs'  truly appreciated  for the
FINE ART  that they are

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh Boy  itsa new
year !


> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:12:23 +1300
> From: yesford at clear.net.nz
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Land-speed] Happy New Year.
>
> Well it's New Years eve 'Down Under' so here's wishing all on this LSR list
> the very best for the coming year.
> Looking back we've had a very volatile past 12 months in all areas of our
> everyday lives, so here's to more settled times ahead.
>
> Last few days I've been putting thought into the layout of a new dry sump
> engine pan. Sure there's plenty of a proven design on Ebay, ex NASCAR and
> the like. They tend to be fairly shallow and we've room for quiet a deep pan
> which is desirable, and I want to maintain.  For the scavenge pick-ups in
> the bottom of the pan, which work best, a boxed pick-up with a filter screen
> or just scavenge tubes with external line filters outside the pan.
>
> The boxed pick-up style most common, so is there some fluid dynamics at play
> here, or just the better way to filter.
>
> Kind regards,
> Chris, Lesley & Lincoln Harris......................NZed

_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass.
http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere
_122008

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Dec 31 12:43:23 2008
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:43:23 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Ethanol?
Message-ID: <50DC9C4D-D3B4-4129-A676-63A4FBE6913A@comcast.net>

Think E 85 is the answer?

http://www.nextautos.com/stanford-university-study-shows-ethanol-be-worst-form-renewable-energy

I wonder what the proponents would say about this article.

From dlodom at charter.net  Wed Dec 31 13:19:50 2008
From: dlodom at charter.net (Doug Odom)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:19:50 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Ethanol?
References: <50DC9C4D-D3B4-4129-A676-63A4FBE6913A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000f01c96b85$22c618c0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>

Wes, Did you read the comments under the article? If you wade through the BS 
and weed out the facts it is interesting.
Doug in big ditch were its 66 today.


> Think E 85 is the answer?
>
> http://www.nextautos.com/stanford-university-study-shows-ethanol-be-worst-form-renewable-energy
>
> I wonder what the proponents would say about this article.

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Dec 31 14:00:23 2008
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:00:23 EST
Subject: [Land-speed] Happy New Year.
Message-ID: <cd3.4a58f5eb.368d3767@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/30/2008 11:15:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
yesford at clear.net.nz writes:

Well  it's New Years eve 'Down Under' so here's wishing all on this LSR list 
the  very best for the coming year.
Looking back we've had a very volatile past  12 months in all areas of our 
everyday lives, so here's to more settled  times ahead.
 
 
Sooo, what's 2009 like ? Is tomorrow worth it ? I'm considering throwing  out 
my "09 Calendar and staying here in 2008. Hell, half the guys on this  list  
still think it's 1958. 
Everybody be safe tonight, the other guy is drunk .....
BOB W ( thought 1969 was just perfect )
 
**************New year...new news.  Be the first to know what is making 
headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)

From jdincau at qnet.com  Wed Dec 31 14:19:17 2008
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:19:17 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Ethanol?
In-Reply-To: <000f01c96b85$22c618c0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
References: <50DC9C4D-D3B4-4129-A676-63A4FBE6913A@comcast.net>
	<000f01c96b85$22c618c0$6401a8c0@YOUR588B4A13EA>
Message-ID: <E7990B14CE8644E1814A774D50E00A28@denpc>

Look at what they compare it to, anything looks bad compared to perpetual 
motion.
Jim 

From saltfever at comcast.net  Wed Dec 31 20:39:44 2008
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:39:44 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump
Message-ID: <94FD142EC4254FC091BCEC039F284A8A@dim8100>

Chris:

I imagine it has to do with oil's high surface tension. In this case a
square has more area than a round tube and attracts oil, via surface
tension, to the pickup area. Or you are distributing the pressure drop over
a large area, meaning a lower velocity into the entrance of the tube. Lower
velocity should have a greater probability of laminar flow with less
turbulence. A bell-mouth tube (like injector stacks) may have as much
surface area and be even better than the square with non-turbulent flow;
however, it would locate the tube entrance too high off of the floor of the
pan (leaving too much oil on the floor) which is the antithesis of a dry
sump.  Putting the bell-mouth entrance on the bottom of the pan adds too
much height (due to plumbing underneath) to an engine package that is always
trying to be lower in CG. However, in your case you state a deep pan is fine
so tubes coming out of the bottom may be ok. I realize serious credence
should be given to current practice because beaucoup R $$ D has been put
into the square pick-up. However, those systems are optimized for race
courses that deviate from a straight line. Why not do a test? Machine both
kind of ports into a piece of lexan and run your pump with a cordless drill
and watch what happens. Let us know the results. Oh! and Happy New year
Chris :-)  -Elon  USD$.02



Original Message (snip . .. )

For the scavenge pick-ups in the bottom of the pan, which work best, a boxed
pick-up with a filter screen

or just scavenge tubes with external line filters outside the pan.



The boxed pick-up style most common, so is there some fluid dynamics at play


here, or just the better way to filter.

From jdincau at qnet.com  Wed Dec 31 21:03:07 2008
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:03:07 -0800
Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump
In-Reply-To: <94FD142EC4254FC091BCEC039F284A8A@dim8100>
References: <94FD142EC4254FC091BCEC039F284A8A@dim8100>
Message-ID: <F84C614886334A3A998AE1F27938E830@denpc>

Chris:
     External screens are conducive to proper maintenance whether integral 
with the outlet on the pan or in line. The screened pickups require the pan 
be dropped, the windage tray removed and in some cases the pickups 
themselves removed from the pan for cleaning and inspection. We check the 
filter and screens after every run. Dyno tests we ran at Billy Williams shop 
on Dale Smarts drag race motors (blown alcohol) proved that the deeper the 
pan the better, dry sump or not.
Jim in Palmdale 

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Dec 31 22:43:54 2008
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 18:43:54 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump
References: <94FD142EC4254FC091BCEC039F284A8A@dim8100>
Message-ID: <0499581D42C34D6E92D80F462091CDCF@ChrisHarrisPC>

Many thanks Elon for your analytical answer. Just what I was looking for.
I've pretty much decided to go with the 'status quo' of screened-boxed 
pick-ups. Actually found the very u-weld pick-up kit in the Moroso catalog 
Pt# 24840.
I like having a deep pan regardless simply because the further the pan floor 
is from the crank the better.
Many thanks for all your replies & good wishes people. Not likely to make it 
back to the 'big white dyno' till 2010 so have a great LSR season everyone.
Chris H....................NZed.

> Chris:
>
> I imagine it has to do with oil's high surface tension. In this case a
> square has more area than a round tube and attracts oil, via surface
> tension, to the pickup area. Or you are distributing the pressure drop 
> over
> a large area, meaning a lower velocity into the entrance of the tube. 
> Lower
> velocity should have a greater probability of laminar flow with less
> turbulence. A bell-mouth tube (like injector stacks) may have as much
> surface area and be even better than the square with non-turbulent flow;
> however, it would locate the tube entrance too high off of the floor of 
> the
> pan (leaving too much oil on the floor) which is the antithesis of a dry
> sump.  Putting the bell-mouth entrance on the bottom of the pan adds too
> much height (due to plumbing underneath) to an engine package that is 
> always
> trying to be lower in CG. However, in your case you state a deep pan is 
> fine
> so tubes coming out of the bottom may be ok. I realize serious credence
> should be given to current practice because beaucoup R $$ D has been put
> into the square pick-up. However, those systems are optimized for race
> courses that deviate from a straight line. Why not do a test? Machine both
> kind of ports into a piece of lexan and run your pump with a cordless 
> drill
> and watch what happens. Let us know the results. Oh! and Happy New year
> Chris :-)  -Elon  USD$.02
>
>
>
> Original Message (snip . .. )
>
> For the scavenge pick-ups in the bottom of the pan, which work best, a 
> boxed
> pick-up with a filter screen
>
> or just scavenge tubes with external line filters outside the pan.
>
>
>
> The boxed pick-up style most common, so is there some fluid dynamics at 
> play
>
>
> here, or just the better way to filter.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
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>
> You are subscribed as yesford at clear.net.nz
>
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From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Dec 31 23:26:38 2008
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 19:26:38 +1300
Subject: [Land-speed] Dry Sump
References: <94FD142EC4254FC091BCEC039F284A8A@dim8100>
	<F84C614886334A3A998AE1F27938E830@denpc>
Message-ID: <866216E4F7364DF0ADAC7C1B0ADD752F@ChrisHarrisPC>

Amen Jim,
I agree with all your pointers.

Heard a story, BS or not about a Pro/Stock team dyno testing the bottom end 
for least oil windage. Best HP 1380. Then one suggested filling the oil tank 
and doing one quick pull with NO PAN !
I figured a slight gain thru no pan cancelled out by lost power from no pan 
vacuum. Story goes power jumped to 1420 HP. Less power to drive pump had to 
be part of it however...........................didn't catch on. LOL.

Chris H..................NZed.

> Chris:
>     External screens are conducive to proper maintenance whether integral 
> with the outlet on the pan or in line. The screened pickups require the 
> pan be dropped, the windage tray removed and in some cases the pickups 
> themselves removed from the pan for cleaning and inspection. We check the 
> filter and screens after every run. Dyno tests we ran at Billy Williams 
> shop on Dale Smarts drag race motors (blown alcohol) proved that the 
> deeper the pan the better, dry sump or not.
> Jim in Palmdale ____________________________________________