From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 00:16:27 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:16:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] EFI Fuel Management
Message-ID: <000001c7ec5f$a16afca0$3574a943@dim8100>

Great post, John and thanks. Good luck at the BUB meet. I'm looking forward
to the information.  -Elon

 

Fri, 31 Aug 2007 From: "John Staiger"

(snip . . )When I get back from the BUB meet on the flats this week, I can
send you a drawing of the electrical system on the bike.  It is far more
comprehensive than most, however it will give you a very good idea on how a
system works and what is art of the possible.

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Sep  1 06:26:08 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 05:26:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr TRACK NEWS: Specialized Military Equipment on
 Display at GIR
Message-ID: <003701c7ec93$464b34f0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.truckseries.com:80/cgi-script/NCTS_07/articles/000123/012397.htm

nice story about JCB
dale
trying to wake up in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Sep  1 06:32:06 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 05:32:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Ohio.com - 300 mph is goal for fuel-cell car
Message-ID: <000501c7ec94$1bdafd80$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.ohio.com:80/business/9488577.html

Buckeye bullet will try for 300mph at world finals
dale
dark and 80 in pahrump

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Sep  1 06:34:17 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 07:34:17 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
Message-ID: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Okay guys... we've done the cockpit design to death...  now on to how we get
our junk there...

Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this year?

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?

K

From td at twinjugs.com  Sat Sep  1 06:42:57 2007
From: td at twinjugs.com (Todd)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 08:42:57 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <20070901123554.M79602@twinjugs.com>

I'll take "What does dryrot(mainly from the sun) along with insuffucient air 
pressure between meets cause" for $500. I'm guessing car guys might be able 
to add in inproper rating(ply) for weight being hauled.
Todd

> Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this year?
> Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?
> K

From jdos at dunkerton.net  Sat Sep  1 06:54:14 2007
From: jdos at dunkerton.net (Jim Dos)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 07:54:14 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<20070901123554.M79602@twinjugs.com>
Message-ID: <06c701c7ec97$38dc3180$0300a8c0@jimibmt30>

I'll echo

"alex, I'd like using old car tires " for $100

Jim
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd" <td at twinjugs.com>
To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>; "LSR List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?


> I'll take "What does dryrot(mainly from the sun) along with insuffucient 
> air
> pressure between meets cause" for $500. I'm guessing car guys might be 
> able
> to add in inproper rating(ply) for weight being hauled.
> Todd
>
>> Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this year?
>> Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?
>> K
> _______________________________________________
> jdos at dunkerton.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From joetimney at dol.net  Sat Sep  1 08:10:36 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:10:36 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <46D972DC.6040200@dol.net>

Donna & I had one flat (screw in tire) in Council Bluff, Iowa, but I saw 
the bulge and  changed it before the tire shredded. I run 55 psi in the 
trailer tires.
Came home and pulled all 4 wheels, repacked the bearings and found one 
tire that broke the belt, distorted the tire, leaving bald spots. I was 
at the weight limit of 7500 lbs.

Scott Griswold towed Morrison's trailer out this year, Colin Walsh & 
Scott went thru 8 tires & 1 rim...grossly overweight!!!
joe

Keith Turk wrote:
> Okay guys... we've done the cockpit design to death...  now on to how we get
> our junk there...
> 
> Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this year?
> 
> Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?
> 
> K
> _______________________________________________

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Sep  1 08:22:01 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:22:01 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <46D97589.40506@mayfco.com>

Hmmmm, haven't lost one..yet but I'll take over weight and under 
pressure for 2000, Alex...  My trailer book is pretty specific about 
tire pressures and overloading the trailer. Seems we have these big box 
trailers and the car only takes up someof the space. Gosh we should be 
able to fill the remaining space with anvils, lol... My trailer is about 
5500 dry and I load it out to no more than 11K with car, tool boxes, and 
other  junk.   I am sure that one day I will start loosing tire as 
well..  The big triple I have is rated to 15600 fully loaded however..

mayf
Keith Turk wrote:

>Okay guys... we've done the cockpit design to death...  now on to how we get
>our junk there...
>
>Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this year?
>
>Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?
>
>K
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sat Sep  1 08:43:46 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:43:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <20070901144320.573E2187A15@autox.team.net>

Keith,
I stopped having trailer tire failures when I started making sure 
that the air pressure in the tires matched the maximum "cold" 
pressure noted on the sidewall of each tire for maximum load. I used 
to lose about one per year until I did that. In three years I have 
not had a failure. I also make sure that there is no significant 
damage to the tires before I leave for the salt.
Skip




At 05:34 AM 9/1/2007, Keith Turk wrote:
>Okay guys... we've done the cockpit design to death...  now on to how we get
>our junk there...
>
>Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this year?
>
>Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?
>
>K
>_______________________________________________
>saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jon at infodestruction.com  Sat Sep  1 09:46:57 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:46:57 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] [ECTALSR] Trailer tires?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <E85224B3-D892-4AE9-9286-B30D021C9244@infodestruction.com>

The only time we've ever had a tire go away was last year -- our  
first year with the latest trailer.  The thing lost air, no puncture,  
no overload.  It was p[ointed out to us by another driver as we  
(both) got back onto I-80 in Pennsylvania.

It turned out that the previous owner has punctured the tire -- and  
"repaired" it by pulling out the valve stem, putting a tube inside  
the tubeless tire, and having the tube's stem stick out the valve  
stem hole.  Eventually the valve stem wore through and we lost air.   
So -- a few miles down the road we stopped for lunch and to have the  
tire patched -- and the shop simply plugged the hole -- from the  
outside.  We put the tire back into the spare holder in the trailer  
and that was that - until this spring, when I was prepping the  
trailer for the season.  I checked the air pressure in all four tires  
plus the spare -- and all were fine, save for a FLAT spare.

I took the spare to the local guys who took it apart and found the  
empty tube flopping around inside.  That's when we came up with the  
above scenario.  Sure glad we never needed to use that spare.


On Sep 1, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Keith Turk wrote:


Okay guys... we've done the cockpit design to death...  now on to how  
we get our junk there...

Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this  
year?

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?

K

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Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From jon at infodestruction.com  Sat Sep  1 09:47:42 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:47:42 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <068F6753-F45C-4489-A1A7-96ADF17B54CA@infodestruction.com>

On Sep 1, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Keith Turk wrote:

Okay guys... we've done the cockpit design to death...  now on to how  
we get
our junk there...

Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this  
year?

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?

K




The only time we've ever had a tire go away was last year -- our  
first year with the latest trailer.  The thing lost air, no puncture,  
no overload.  It was p[ointed out to us by another driver as we  
(both) got back onto I-80 in Pennsylvania.

It turned out that the previous owner has punctured the tire -- and  
"repaired" it by pulling out the valve stem, putting a tube inside  
the tubeless tire, and having the tube's stem stick out the valve  
stem hole.  Eventually the valve stem wore through and we lost air.   
So -- a few miles down the road we stopped for lunch and to have the  
tire patched -- and the shop simply plugged the hole -- from the  
outside.  We put the tire back into the spare holder in the trailer  
and that was that - until this spring, when I was prepping the  
trailer for the season.  I checked the air pressure in all four tires  
plus the spare -- and all were fine, save for a FLAT spare.

I took the spare to the local guys who took it apart and found the  
empty tube flopping around inside.  That's when we came up with the  
above scenario.  Sure glad we never needed to use that spare.


                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 10:02:22 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 09:02:22 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <002601c7ecb1$7da6d300$6501a8c0@S>

Give some thought to the weights of all the stuff you bring along on these
outings.  I have an old spring type bathroom scale in the shop that lives
under one of the tool boxes.  When I want to weigh something I pick it up
and go weigh myself. Then I put it down and subtract my empty handed weight.
For small items I have an old 25 pound baby scale.
My next trailer is going to be a serious light weight so I can pull it with
my everyday driver.  In planning I've estimated that I can get down to
around 500 pounds of extra stuff to support my modest street roadster
project on a trip to Bonneville.  This line of thinking could certainly be
applied to any size project from a 50cc bike to a corporate sponsored
streamliner.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <ECTALSR at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 5:34 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?


> Okay guys... we've done the cockpit design to death...  now on to how we
get
> our junk there...
>
> Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this year?
>
> Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?
>
> K
> _______________________________________________
> 23.weldon at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From john.szalay at att.net  Sat Sep  1 10:29:38 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 12:29:38 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46D972DC.6040200@dol.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c7ecb5$4dbc72e0$7901a8c0@531W>

> Keith Turk wrote:
>> >> Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this 
>> >> year?
>>
>> Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?
>>
>> K


Having towed trailers for years I can venture my thoughts.

As Always:
 Your mileage and opinion, may vary !



 how old are the tires ?  I've always used  5 years as a guide. some use 7 
years.

protect the tires from sunlight and ozone exposure when not on the road ?

Stay well within load capacity. and balance your trailer loading.

maintain air pressures at all times. ( however, I used to jack the trailers 
up during the winter
and lower tire pressures  when there was no load on them)

Goodyear and others  has some other advice..
 (while this info is for RV tires, I believe that it applies  to car haulers 
as well.)

  http://www.goodyear.com/rv/tirecare/tire_age.html

  http://www.tiresafety.com/

  http://www.rma.org/

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Sep  1 10:43:53 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 10:43:53 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p><46D972DC.6040200@dol.net>
	<000c01c7ecb5$4dbc72e0$7901a8c0@531W>
Message-ID: <014401c7ecb7$48d298c0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Over the many years I have seen many blow outs on trailers, also the tow 
vehicle and a few motor homes with over loaded tires. Remember the desert is 
hot and road temps can be over 150 degs. Keeping the speed down also helps. 
Road conditions very and can sneak up on you if night driving. Good judgment 
and pre-prep are on your side.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Szalay" <john.szalay at att.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?


>> Keith Turk wrote:
>>> >> Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this
>>> >> year?
>>>
>>> Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?
>>>
>>> K
>
>
> Having towed trailers for years I can venture my thoughts.
>
> As Always:
> Your mileage and opinion, may vary !
>
>
>
> how old are the tires ?  I've always used  5 years as a guide. some use 7
> years.
>
> protect the tires from sunlight and ozone exposure when not on the road ?
>
> Stay well within load capacity. and balance your trailer loading.
>
> maintain air pressures at all times. ( however, I used to jack the 
> trailers
> up during the winter
> and lower tire pressures  when there was no load on them)
>
> Goodyear and others  has some other advice..
> (while this info is for RV tires, I believe that it applies  to car 
> haulers
> as well.)
>
>  http://www.goodyear.com/rv/tirecare/tire_age.html
>
>  http://www.tiresafety.com/
>
>  http://www.rma.org/
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Sep  1 10:59:44 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 10:59:44 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
References: <003e01c7ec94$6ad35c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p><46D972DC.6040200@dol.net><000c01c7ecb5$4dbc72e0$7901a8c0@531W>
	<014401c7ecb7$48d298c0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <015101c7ecb9$7f85d290$6401a8c0@Glens>

One thing I forgot to mention is all trailers sway and cause some side 
loading on the tires that will shorten the life of the side wall.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "John Szalay" <john.szalay at att.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?


> Over the many years I have seen many blow outs on trailers, also the tow
> vehicle and a few motor homes with over loaded tires. Remember the desert 
> is
> hot and road temps can be over 150 degs. Keeping the speed down also 
> helps.
> Road conditions very and can sneak up on you if night driving. Good 
> judgment
> and pre-prep are on your side.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Szalay" <john.szalay at att.net>
> To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
>
>
>>> Keith Turk wrote:
>>>> >> Who here lost a trailer tire going to or coming from the meets this
>>>> >> year?
>>>>
>>>> Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why this is such a dang problem?
>>>>
>>>> K
>>
>>
>> Having towed trailers for years I can venture my thoughts.
>>
>> As Always:
>> Your mileage and opinion, may vary !
>>
>>
>>
>> how old are the tires ?  I've always used  5 years as a guide. some use 7
>> years.
>>
>> protect the tires from sunlight and ozone exposure when not on the road ?
>>
>> Stay well within load capacity. and balance your trailer loading.
>>
>> maintain air pressures at all times. ( however, I used to jack the
>> trailers
>> up during the winter
>> and lower tire pressures  when there was no load on them)
>>
>> Goodyear and others  has some other advice..
>> (while this info is for RV tires, I believe that it applies  to car
>> haulers
>> as well.)
>>
>>  http://www.goodyear.com/rv/tirecare/tire_age.html
>>
>>  http://www.tiresafety.com/
>>
>>  http://www.rma.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jnsolomonj at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 11:32:17 2007
From: jnsolomonj at yahoo.com (jack solomon)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 10:32:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] trailer tires
Message-ID: <970393.32061.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Must be a slow day!!!


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ 

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sat Sep  1 11:38:03 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:38:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] trailer tires
In-Reply-To: <970393.32061.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <970393.32061.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070901173635.2D27B187A69@autox.team.net>

At 10:32 AM 9/1/2007, jack solomon wrote:
>Must be a slow day!!!
>
  Not a slow day if it prevents changing a tire when it is 110 
degrees out and nice and sunshiney!
Skip 

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sat Sep  1 11:39:00 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:39:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires?
Message-ID: <20070901173729.205981879F6@autox.team.net>

Keith,
I stopped having trailer tire failures when I started making sure
that the air pressure in the tires matched the maximum "cold"
pressure noted on the sidewall of each tire for maximum load. I used
to lose about one per year until I did that. In three years I have
not had a failure. I also make sure that there is no significant
damage to the tires before I leave for the salt.
Skip

I forgot to edit.......

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Sep  1 13:32:54 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:32:54 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack )
References: <970393.32061.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00b801c7ecce$e5541720$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Yeah it is slow... and I'm trying to spiff it up a bit... make it more 
important to be here... maybe even more fun...

So my question ( not only to you but EVERYONE ).... is what are YOUR 
questions?  Do you know everything you need to know?  Want to know?... 
Seriously... isn't there something nagg'in at the back of your mind?   No... 
yeah me neither... so I came up with the silly Tire quesiton... it was the 
best I could come up with on short notice...

Wait I got one.... how bout I do the infamous DRAG/HP/Traction deal.... yeah 
that's a good idea....

SMILE damn it....

Keith ( Life is really good... gots me a surfer/racer T-shirt.... ya know, 
the one with a verticle strip on one side...  Seems adding oil does help the 
lathe cut metal... and adorns one's shirt with this really cool stripe... 
goes right thru the Bville 200mph club logo... ) Good thing it's one of the 
old shirts... I was threatened with personal castration if I ruined one of 
the new ones )... ( that Tonya can be mighty though when it comes to 
laundry ) 

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Sep  1 13:35:00 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:35:00 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
Message-ID: <00c101c7eccf$30a3e020$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

So... here's a thought for ya.... how can a Camaro with 1200hp go slower then
a Camaro with 900hp?

How much wheel speed is necessary to go 252mph?  ( think 295mph )....  Hmmm
or say 257?

Keith

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Sep  1 13:41:34 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 13:41:34 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack )
References: <970393.32061.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<00b801c7ecce$e5541720$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <016701c7ecd0$1b486330$6401a8c0@Glens>

Heck Keith, I thought it was a good question. Makes one think. How about the 
trailer clean up and brake inspection when you get home, easy to put off but 
a bitch three months later when the Wendover loc-tite has rusted everything 
together.
Lets start something Keith.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: "jack solomon" <jnsolomonj at yahoo.com>; "land speed" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack )


> Yeah it is slow... and I'm trying to spiff it up a bit... make it more
> important to be here... maybe even more fun...
>
> So my question ( not only to you but EVERYONE ).... is what are YOUR
> questions?  Do you know everything you need to know?  Want to know?...
> Seriously... isn't there something nagg'in at the back of your mind? 
> No...
> yeah me neither... so I came up with the silly Tire quesiton... it was the
> best I could come up with on short notice...
>
> Wait I got one.... how bout I do the infamous DRAG/HP/Traction deal.... 
> yeah
> that's a good idea....
>
> SMILE damn it....
>
> Keith ( Life is really good... gots me a surfer/racer T-shirt.... ya know,
> the one with a verticle strip on one side...  Seems adding oil does help 
> the
> lathe cut metal... and adorns one's shirt with this really cool stripe...
> goes right thru the Bville 200mph club logo... ) Good thing it's one of 
> the
> old shirts... I was threatened with personal castration if I ruined one of
> the new ones )... ( that Tonya can be mighty though when it comes to
> laundry )
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Sep  1 13:56:38 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 12:56:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
In-Reply-To: <00c101c7eccf$30a3e020$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <00c101c7eccf$30a3e020$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <46D9C3F6.4070105@mayfco.com>

I know the  answer so I will recuse myself, lol..

mayf
Keith Turk wrote:

>So... here's a thought for ya.... how can a Camaro with 1200hp go slower then
>a Camaro with 900hp?
>
>How much wheel speed is necessary to go 252mph?  ( think 295mph )....  Hmmm
>or say 257?
>
>Keith
>_______________________________________________

From jon at infodestruction.com  Sat Sep  1 14:19:57 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:19:57 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack )
In-Reply-To: <00b801c7ecce$e5541720$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <970393.32061.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<00b801c7ecce$e5541720$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <638F2B3C-3145-4695-A678-733A7C75C652@infodestruction.com>

On Sep 1, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Keith Turk wrote:
  I was threatened with personal castration ...  that Tonya can be  
mighty tough.




Keith, of all things a wife might do -- I wonder if this would be a  
case of "cutting off one's 'nose' to spite one's 'face'".  I mean,  
would she really be THAT upset -- to change her life to one of chastity?


                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From FastmetalBDF at aol.com  Sat Sep  1 14:25:30 2007
From: FastmetalBDF at aol.com (FastmetalBDF at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:25:30 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!
Message-ID: <d1a.1378d0a1.340b24ba@aol.com>

In eight or nine years of being on our list here, I  cannot recall any 
discussion of Desmodromic Valve Gear, as utilized at one  time by Mercedes-Benz on 
some of their racing engines.  Were any ever  actually used in competition, 
either pre-war or post-war ?  Eliminating  valve springs seems like a decided 
advantage in any  engine, and most  decidely in a high rev racing engine, but 
obviously there had to  be a down-side to this arrangement ...... any comments by 
our resident  engine gurus onboard here ?  NO FAIR running to Google or  
Mercedes-Benz websites, or anywhere online, for any info or descriptions ......  
all answers from your own personal knowledge and/or past experience, or 
reading,  Please !    Thanks in advance   ~   Bruce,  way back east, recalling the 
time, many, many moons ago, when I first saw the  inside of a big Ford V8 
'Cammer' ...... Connie Kalitta was checking the topside  out on his 'Bounty Hunter' 
fueler between rounds at our local strip( Connecticut  Dragway ),and the cam 
on the top of each bank was most impressive !!!   Those SOHC's were NOT 
desmodromic ...... but were really great looking and  exciting machinery !!!  ( End 
of old guy  ramble.)



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 14:29:34 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 13:29:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack )
References: <970393.32061.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<00b801c7ecce$e5541720$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <005701c7ecd6$d1892110$6501a8c0@S>

Whatsamatter, Keith? Won't she let you near that high tech computer
controlled washing machine?  Now that you've retired from driving and sold
off the "Family Jewel" it's time you developed new skills.  Like how to
preclean oil soaked cloths without greasing up the tub of the washer.
C'mon, guys, help me out.  Keith hasn't had a good chain pulling for a
while.
Temp is 107 here in balmy California.  I'm relearning the wisdom of siesta
time.  When I wake up I hope there will be a good "pull" going on.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: "jack solomon" <jnsolomonj at yahoo.com>; "land speed"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack )
> Yeah it is slow... and I'm trying to spiff it up a bit... make it more
> important to be here... maybe even more fun...
> Wait I got one.... how bout I do the infamous DRAG/HP/Traction deal....
yeah
> that's a good idea....
> SMILE damn it....
>
> Keith ( Life is really good... gots me a surfer/racer T-shirt.... ya know,
> the one with a verticle strip on one side...  Seems adding oil does help
the
> lathe cut metal... and adorns one's shirt with this really cool stripe...
> goes right thru the Bville 200mph club logo... ) Good thing it's one of
the
> old shirts... I was threatened with personal castration if I ruined one of
> the new ones )... ( that Tonya can be mighty though when it comes to
> laundry )

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sat Sep  1 14:32:53 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:32:53 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Mormon Meteor Best of Show Pebble Beach Concours
	2007
Message-ID: <d08.19e666f3.340b2675@aol.com>

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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Return-path: <BWANA343 at aol.com>
From: BWANA343 at aol.com
Full-name: BWANA343
Message-ID: <bc6.1911b1a9.340b2615 at aol.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:31:17 EDT
Subject: Mormon Meteor Best of Show Pebble Beach Concours 2007
To: BWANA343 at aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5041
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

_http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/20/pebble-beach-week-2007-mormon-meteor-takes
-best-of-show-at-pebb/_ 
(http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/20/pebble-beach-week-2007-mormon-meteor-takes-best-of-show-at-pebb/) 



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From v4gr at rcn.com  Sat Sep  1 15:23:08 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:23:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs  !!!!!
References: <d1a.1378d0a1.340b24ba@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001601c7ecde$4b307430$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

I believe the 300SL race cars as well as street driven cars were 
desmodromic. As well as lots of Ducuti motorcycles.   RF
----- Original Message ----- 
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!


> In eight or nine years of being on our list here, I  cannot recall any
> discussion of Desmodromic Valve Gear, as utilized at one  time by 
> Mercedes-Benz on
> some of their racing engines.  Were any ever  actually used in 
> competition,
> either pre-war or post-war ? 

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 15:32:47 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:32:47 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs  !!!!!
Message-ID: <000b01c7ecdf$a45403a0$563c2544@john>

How much power would a small block Chevy make at 19k rpm if it used 
compressed air to close the valves like an F1 engine . 

From dlodom at charter.net  Sat Sep  1 15:41:46 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:41:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs   !!!!!
In-Reply-To: <001601c7ecde$4b307430$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
References: <d1a.1378d0a1.340b24ba@aol.com>
	<001601c7ecde$4b307430$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <46D9DC9A.7060300@charter.net>

I believe the 300 SLR used desmodromic. It was a straight eight motor 
with the power take off in the middle, like 2 4's back to back. I don't 
think the 300 SL ever used that motor. Those were the cars in the mid 
50's that Sterling Moss and Juan Fangio drove. This is from memory so if 
I'm wrong someone jump in and straighten me out.     Doug Odom in big ditch

Rich Fox wrote:

>I believe the 300SL race cars as well as street driven cars were 
>desmodromic. As well as lots of Ducuti motorcycles.   RF
>----- Original Message ----- 
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!
>
>
>  
>
>>In eight or nine years of being on our list here, I  cannot recall any
>>discussion of Desmodromic Valve Gear, as utilized at one  time by 
>>Mercedes-Benz on
>>some of their racing engines.  Were any ever  actually used in 
>>competition,
>>either pre-war or post-war ? 
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________

From FastmetalBDF at aol.com  Sat Sep  1 15:48:00 2007
From: FastmetalBDF at aol.com (FastmetalBDF at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:48:00 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Desmo Doins'  .....
Message-ID: <bfd.19da0704.340b3810@aol.com>

John : UHHHHH : What is the stroke on your >> 19K  << theoretical small block 
Chev .... and whose rods do you plan on using  ?  Are they made of heat 
treated, shot-blasted & stress  relieved Unobtanium OR  ???
   Will this new powerplant be residing in your new liner  ?    ~   just 
wonderin'   ~    BDF
PS : where do ya set your rev-limiter at ?  You might consider a hefty  
HY-120 steel blast shield around your oil pan  .........



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From dlodom at charter.net  Sat Sep  1 15:50:00 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:50:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cell phone for radio?
Message-ID: <46D9DE88.7050502@charter.net>

I have been told that some people have been able to use their cell 
phones for a in car radio to the crew.  I have not been able to get the 
details yet but after thinking about it, I can see how it could work. 
Sure a lot less money than $3000 for racing radios.   Anyone on the list 
know anything about it?
Doug Odom in big ditch

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 15:51:09 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:51:09 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs   !!!!!
Message-ID: <001701c7ece2$3543d370$563c2544@john>

Wikipedia says :

>and in 1907 the Aries is described as having a V4 engine with 
>"desmodromique" valve actuation, >but details are scarce.

I didn't think Nick was nearly that old . 

From FastmetalBDF at aol.com  Sat Sep  1 16:06:37 2007
From: FastmetalBDF at aol.com (FastmetalBDF at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 18:06:37 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Desmo Doins' or NO Valve Spring-ums  ~
Message-ID: <c4f.1b827e3a.340b3c6d@aol.com>

HEY JoiseyJohn : YOU Cheated by goin' to Wikipedia  ...... LOL !!!  NO Prize 
for YOUSE !
 Neat pun about Nick since you mentioned Aries ..... slightly  diff. spelling 
than the piston guy but shouldn't buzz over too many heads here,  right ?
 
 
bdf, just half~fast these days  ~  NO Los Gatos 107 * Here  on the Shoreline 
: Mid 70s / just Fine   ~ 



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From wayneyeats at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 16:09:12 2007
From: wayneyeats at yahoo.com (Wayne Yeats)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 15:09:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Desmodromic
Message-ID: <229344.2741.qm@web60422.mail.yahoo.com>

Doug's right. They were never in the 300SL street
cars. By the way the name comes from the French word
desmodromique which means "to force to follow a
contour". One would think that it would minimize valve
float. Gee. All you need is another cam or more lobes
and rockers and stuff. Sounds like a hair brained idea
I'd come up with. Wayno


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Sep  1 16:22:09 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 15:22:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] =?iso-8859-1?q?Ducati=2Ecom_=7C=7C_Bikes_=7C=7C_Tech?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?_caf=E8?=
Message-ID: <000501c7ece6$89eb9760$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/techcafe.jhtml?artID=2&detail=article&part=techni
cal

desmodromic valve diagram
dale
hot and wearing out my finer typing in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Sep  1 16:23:31 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 15:23:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] desmodromic valve gear
Message-ID: <002801c7ece6$ba7ac630$6400a8c0@Dale>

desmodromic is derived from two Greek roots, desmos (controlled, linked) and
dromos (course, track. It refers to the exclusive valve control
dale
100+ in pahrump, trying to figure out how to change oil on my track back hoe

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 16:24:35 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 15:24:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!
References: <001701c7ece2$3543d370$563c2544@john>
Message-ID: <007601c7ece6$e39fc380$6501a8c0@S>

Long as we've broadened the subject to no valve springs...... Has anyone
ever heard of an actual running internal combustion engine that opened and
closed the valves with something as crude as an electric solenoid or, on the
other end, something as sophisticated as a computer controlled linear voice
coil?  Some searching found some university student papers on the subject
and a few recent (last two years) patents that have clains in that area.
I'd be willing to bet it would be relatively easy to build a hit and miss
engine with solenoid actuated valves; but that's a long way from a practical
automotive engine.  Maybe the model IC engine guys are dabbling in that
direction.
There were a bunch of them with a display at the Goodguy's Pleasanton Street
Rod event.  Even a couple of roots blown V-8's about the size of a soccer
ball and the guy selling the raw castings to make them from. (but that's
really another thread.....didn't mean to lose focus there)
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!


> Wikipedia says :
>
> >and in 1907 the Aries is described as having a V4 engine with
> >"desmodromique" valve actuation, >but details are scarce.
>
> I didn't think Nick was nearly that old .
> _______________________________________________
> 23.weldon at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 16:29:45 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 15:29:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!
Message-ID: <008501c7ece7$9b0d7760$6501a8c0@S>

Properly edited version forwarded to list ......High temperature brain
error.  Need more lemonade.
EW
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>; "LandSpeed List"
<Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!


> Long as we've broadened the subject to no valve springs...... Has anyone
> ever heard of an actual running internal combustion engine that opened and
> closed the valves with something as crude as an electric solenoid or, on
the
> other end, something as sophisticated as a computer controlled linear
voice
> coil?  Some searching found some university student papers on the subject
> and a few recent (last two years) patents that have clains in that area.
> I'd be willing to bet it would be relatively easy to build a hit and miss
> engine with solenoid actuated valves; but that's a long way from a
practical
> automotive engine.  Maybe the model IC engine guys are dabbling in that
> direction.
> There were a bunch of them with a display at the Goodguy's Pleasanton
Street
> Rod event.  Even a couple of roots blown V-8's about the size of a soccer
> ball and the guy selling the raw castings to make them from. (but that's
> really another thread.....didn't mean to lose focus there)
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
> To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 2:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!
> > Wikipedia says :
> > >and in 1907 the Aries is described as having a V4 engine with
> > >"desmodromique" valve actuation, >but details are scarce.
> > I didn't think Nick was nearly that old .

From FastmetalBDF at aol.com  Sat Sep  1 17:03:29 2007
From: FastmetalBDF at aol.com (FastmetalBDF at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 19:03:29 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Electrical Solenoid Valve Actuation ? YES.
Message-ID: <d0b.179b13c7.340b49c1@aol.com>

Electric Solenoids operating valves on an internal combustion engine, you  
ask ???  How about the Cadillac model a few years back with rockers  controlled 
by electrical signals so it could cruise on 4 cylinders after getting  up to 
speed on 8, and then 6, as it approached cruising speed  ?  Wasn't it referred 
to as the 4-6-8 Cadillac Mileage Motor  ?  Another Motor Marvel relegated to 
the dustbin of 20th Century  Wonder Cures for All that Ails Your Auto ?  At 
least this one got put into  production ..... Was it not a success ?  Too much 
maintenance involved  ?    Bruce, recalling waaaay back in my pre-teen years 
when  my very mechanically inclined uncle, who I saw as an expert on Anything at 
All  Automotive, used to tell me he put so many gas-saving devices on a car he 
once  owned that he had to drain the tank every two weeks !  In my teen  
years he had a super-neat '37 Chev coupe that I hoped & prayed would one day  be 
mine !  Alas, and alack .....he sold it sometime in my twenties. Gone  forever, 
never to see my shop.  Eventually, upon his passing, I did inherit  a car 
that he actually drove to the age of 82, when his eyesight got too  poor for any 
more driving.  That particular car was a tired out 1967 Camaro  with a stock 
six, and needing paint, brakes, body work & much TLC ......  Many of you saw 
this car on the Salt in 2000 and 2001, well after my oldest son  Doug first 
treated it to much mechanical love, a great looking big block Chev,  and Mopar 
'Plum Crazy' paint ..... it was the biggest hit at his high  school parking lot. 
He afterward traded it to my youngest boy, Darrell, who  dragged it a few 
times at Sears Point( NOT Infineon then )and then  pulled it all apart for the 
conversion to a Salt & dry lakes car ...... aka  the Black Radon Engineering # 
939 B/BFAltered. My uncle only saw my oldest  son as a little boy still playing 
with toy cars, and never got to see his  younger brother, but I kinda think he 
would have been pretty  proud of what they did to his old stovebolt six 
grocery  getter ..... 
Here Endeth This Oldguy Rant   ~



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From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 17:37:40 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:37:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires
Message-ID: <000001c7ecf1$16378800$3574a943@dim8100>

A plug is classified as an "emergency" fix only! It is designed to be a
quick repair to get you back on the road quickly. It is "temporary" and must
be replaced by an inside patch as soon as practical. If the hole is near or
on the side wall, and cannot be patched, the tire must be discarded. A plug
may work in that scenario but it will surely fail. You would be surprised at
how many kids in a tire shop are completely ignorant of the fact.
Experienced tire guys and shop owners know the difference but usually take
advantage of a traveler and "plug" because it is quick and CHEAP! (i.e.,
they can make a quick buck and 99% of the public don't know the difference).
Since you are traveling it is doubtful they will ever see you again.  It is
quite a different story if you are a loyal customer and they know you.
Never, ever, leave a flat "plugged"!  YMMV,   -Elon



Original Message

Jon Wennerberg

(Snip . . .) So -- a few miles down the road we stopped for lunch and to
have the tire patched -- and the shop simply plugged the hole -- from the
outside.

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 17:46:32 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:46:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?
Message-ID: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The use of a valve train consisting of camshaft, lifters, pushrods, rockers and heavy springs is really a fairly primitive way to open and close valves, and is certainly a performance limiter.  It seems like with the current development of electronic fuel injection, the same elctronics could be applied to opening anc closing valves.  Sort of a solonoid, operated by the same kind of ECU as EFI, in place of the entire valve train.  Any thoughts?
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas  

       
---------------------------------
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From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 17:50:53 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:50:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Paper Headlights
Message-ID: <000501c7ecf2$eedba000$3574a943@dim8100>

In the interest of safety, broken glass is not only a hazard to a driver but
posses a serious problem for course clean-up after an incident. It is quite
possible that residual glass pieces could be missed only to be run over by a
following contestant.  FOD is always a serious concern on any course.



If there is absolutely NO aerodynamic advantage; can headlights be replaced
with paper replicas in classes where WORKING lights are required? For
example, Production class, Gas class, and others.  If paper or plastic is
not legal, should the rules be changed in the interest of safety?  -Elon

From dlodom at charter.net  Sat Sep  1 18:25:29 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:25:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Paper Headlights
In-Reply-To: <000501c7ecf2$eedba000$3574a943@dim8100>
References: <000501c7ecf2$eedba000$3574a943@dim8100>
Message-ID: <46DA02F9.1070103@charter.net>

Looking in the rule book I see nothing that says WORKING in front of 
head lights or tail lights.

Doug Odom in big ditch

 >3 liter wrote:

>In the interest of safety, broken glass is not only a hazard to a driver but
>posses a serious problem for course clean-up after an incident. It is quite
>possible that residual glass pieces could be missed only to be run over by a
>following contestant.  FOD is always a serious concern on any course.
>
>
>
>If there is absolutely NO aerodynamic advantage; can headlights be replaced
>with paper replicas in classes where WORKING lights are required? For
>example, Production class, Gas class, and others.  If paper or plastic is
>not legal, should the rules be changed in the interest of safety?  -Elon
>_______________________________________________

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sat Sep  1 18:48:13 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 20:48:13 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs  !!!!!
References: <001701c7ece2$3543d370$563c2544@john>
	<007601c7ece6$e39fc380$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <001f01c7ecfa$fe07c650$2101a8c0@WinXP>

I thought Renault tried that with F1 type engines--solenoids maybe

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>; "LandSpeed List"
<Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!


> Long as we've broadened the subject to no valve springs...... Has anyone
> ever heard of an actual running internal combustion engine that opened and
> closed the valves with something as crude as an electric solenoid or, on
> the
> other end, something as sophisticated as a computer controlled linear
> voice
> coil?  Some searching found some university student papers on the subject
> and a few recent (last two years) patents that have clains in that area.
> I'd be willing to bet it would be relatively easy to build a hit and miss
> engine with solenoid actuated valves; but that's a long way from a
> practical
> automotive engine.  Maybe the model IC engine guys are dabbling in that
> direction.
> There were a bunch of them with a display at the Goodguy's Pleasanton
> Street
> Rod event.  Even a couple of roots blown V-8's about the size of a soccer
> ball and the guy selling the raw castings to make them from. (but that's
> really another thread.....didn't mean to lose focus there)
> Ed Weldon

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 18:54:10 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:54:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Paper Headlights
In-Reply-To: <46DA02F9.1070103@charter.net>
Message-ID: <000001c7ecfb$c61686e0$3574a943@dim8100>

Section 4.DD, page 42, Street Equipment:  ". . . Equipment required for
legal street operation in most states."  . . ."high and low beam headlights
. . . ""

How do you demonstrate "legal street operation" unless they are working?
-Elon

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Odomnet] 
Looking in the rule book I see nothing that says WORKING in front of head
lights or tail lights.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Sep  1 18:56:30 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:56:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Paper Headlights
References: <000001c7ecfb$c61686e0$3574a943@dim8100>
Message-ID: <00c901c7ecfc$1b9cc0c0$6501a8c0@S>

Elon-- Did you have to bring this up?
Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "3 liter" <saltfever at comcast.net>
To: "'DougOdom'" <dlodom at charter.net>
Cc: "'land-speed submit'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 5:54 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Paper Headlights


> Section 4.DD, page 42, Street Equipment:  ". . . Equipment required for
> legal street operation in most states."  . . ."high and low beam
headlights
> . . . ""
>
> How do you demonstrate "legal street operation" unless they are working?
> -Elon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Odomnet]
> Looking in the rule book I see nothing that says WORKING in front of head
> lights or tail lights.
> _______________________________________________
> 23.weldon at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Sat Sep  1 18:58:30 2007
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 12:58:30 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?
In-Reply-To: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CE2A2CA0F4154EA281B5906E77F83D7D@ChrisHarrisPC>

  The use of a valve train consisting of camshaft, lifters, pushrods, rockers
and heavy springs is really a fairly primitive way to open and close valves,
and is certainly a performance limiter.

  I hear what your saying Dick and totally agree. Even still using a
reciprocating engine amazes me in this hi-tech World. That's not to say I like
the rotary Wankel design cause I don't. That sound (which is
important........right)  just doesn't do it for me.

  Getting back to valuing systems, one that is super simple, reliable and
proven but it would seem, underdeveloped is rotary valves like the disc type
used on some 2 stroke scooters etc.

  I remember seeing a rotary log type rotary valve layout being tried on a
formula style V8. It apparently worked fine but didn't flow air well. Any
comments ?

  Chris H..............NZed.

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sat Sep  1 19:17:03 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 18:17:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?
References: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c7ecfe$f93b7460$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

The Knight sleeve valve engine certinly ran in lots of cars in it's day. And 
the engine in the Supermarine Sea Fury I believe was a radial sleeve valve 
engine. Plenty of rower there.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dick J" <lsr_man at yahoo.com>
To: "lsr list autox" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 4:46 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?


> The use of a valve train consisting of camshaft, lifters, pushrods, 
> rockers and heavy springs is really a fairly primitive way to open and 
> close valves, and is certainly a performance limiter.  It seems like with 
> the current development of electronic fuel injection, the same elctronics 
> could be applied to opening anc closing valves.  Sort of a solonoid, 
> operated by the same kind of ECU as EFI, in place of the entire valve 
> train.  Any thoughts?
>
>  DickJ
>  In East Texas

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Sep  1 21:41:28 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:41:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?
In-Reply-To: <001a01c7ecfe$f93b7460$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
References: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<001a01c7ecfe$f93b7460$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <46DA30E8.60108@wildblue.net>

I saw a comment on the SAE site several years ago about a single 
cylinder lab
motor used in a feasibility study that had solenoid controlled valves. 
Also a comment
about one using hydraulic cylinders for valve control. Looked ideal for 
a diesel because
at low power settings just enough air can be let into the cylinder to 
support combustion
without knocking. A quiet diesel ??.

Bryan

From dlodom at charter.net  Sat Sep  1 22:16:26 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:16:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cell phone for radio?
In-Reply-To: <45ac72e90709011634i7c779101o3b46c8f2ef4cca23@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46D9DE88.7050502@charter.net>
	<45ac72e90709011634i7c779101o3b46c8f2ef4cca23@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46DA391A.6020302@charter.net>

Bob, It looks like they make cell phones that work with motorcycles that 
plug into the helmets. I did a google search and found many. So I guess 
it would be no big trick to make it work for LSR.
Doug

Robert J. Denton wrote:

>Doug, I would imagine they are using those Motorolas that work as
>walkie talkies. These are very popular on construction sites.
>
>Bob
>
>On 9/1/07, DougOdom <dlodom at charter.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>I have been told that some people have been able to use their cell
>>phones for a in car radio to the crew.  I have not been able to get the
>>details yet but after thinking about it, I can see how it could work.
>>Sure a lot less money than $3000 for racing radios.   Anyone on the list
>>know anything about it?
>>Doug Odom in big ditch
>>_______________________________________________

From mactem at mebtel.net  Sun Sep  2 06:07:39 2007
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 08:07:39 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs   !!!!!
Message-ID: <009301c7ed59$dc1870d0$0200a8c0@brightstar>

I believe that Ducati has the fastest 800cc MotoGP bike at around 210
mph due to having desmodronic valve train. In a straight, they walk
right past the Japanese bikes.
David

From Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 07:14:44 2007
From: Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 13:14:44 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Group Phonecalls
Message-ID: <090220071314.26025.46DAB7440002540F000065A922007601809C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>

I've heard 'em advertized on the radio. I took no notice of who was advertizing, but I Googled up these guys...sounds like it would work well for LSR.

http://www.foonz.com/?gclid=CM3divTrpI4CFSgRGgodIl3mZQ

From john.szalay at att.net  Sun Sep  2 08:43:10 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:43:10 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Cell phone for radio?
Message-ID: <090220071443.16601.46DACBFE0009864A000040D92160376316970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

 Verizon wireless (cellphone) has that feature.
its what they call Push to Talk  or Walkie -Talkie .


http://support.vzw.com/features/data_services/push_to_talk.html


Not sure whom else offers that option. we had it where I worked.
its a good feature, if you need it .  BUT

EDITORIAL COMMENT!
but personaly I find it an annoying thing out in public. Its bad enough
to hear one side of a private conversation, but when its used in public
then you hear both sides..  
My .02  cents.

-------------- Original message from DougOdom <dlodom at charter.net>: -------------- 


> I have been told that some people have been able to use their cell 
> phones for a in car radio to the crew. I have not been able to get the 
> details yet but after thinking about it, I can see how it could work. 
> Sure a lot less money than $3000 for racing radios. Anyone on the list 
> know anything about it? 
> Doug Odom in big ditch 

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Sep  2 08:50:36 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 08:50:36 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack )
In-Reply-To: <00b801c7ecce$e5541720$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <970393.32061.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<00b801c7ecce$e5541720$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <20070902085036.kfbvgh19s0okwgoo@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Slow-shmo.

Good to hear the reminders about towing.  (always a scary thought -
yanking 15,000lbs of junk down the hiway @ 75!)  This may save a life
or an unplanned rest stop in the heat.

Tip: wear non-collectible items when making a mess (i'm no laundry queen).

cheers,
David in Durango



Quoting Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net>:

> Yeah it is slow... and I'm trying to spiff it up a bit... make it more
> important to be here... maybe even more fun...
>
> So my question ( not only to you but EVERYONE ).... is what are YOUR
> questions?  Do you know everything you need to know?  Want to know?...
> Seriously... isn't there something nagg'in at the back of your mind?
No...
> yeah me neither... so I came up with the silly Tire quesiton... it was the
> best I could come up with on short notice...
>
> Wait I got one.... how bout I do the infamous DRAG/HP/Traction deal....
yeah
> that's a good idea....
>
> SMILE damn it....
>
> Keith ( Life is really good... gots me a surfer/racer T-shirt.... ya know,
> the one with a verticle strip on one side...  Seems adding oil does help
the
> lathe cut metal... and adorns one's shirt with this really cool stripe...
> goes right thru the Bville 200mph club logo... ) Good thing it's one of the
> old shirts... I was threatened with personal castration if I ruined one of
> the new ones )... ( that Tonya can be mighty though when it comes to
> laundry )
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Sep  2 08:55:17 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 08:55:17 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
In-Reply-To: <00c101c7eccf$30a3e020$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <00c101c7eccf$30a3e020$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <20070902085517.vx9tkr51esc4k84k@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Wow, great question.

How much ( % ) wheel slip in encountered at 200ish speeds?

Besides a heavy foot, is this caused by aero drag?  (I assume this is  
the answer)

David in Durango, can hardly break the speed limit



Quoting Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net>:

> So... here's a thought for ya.... how can a Camaro with 1200hp go slower then
> a Camaro with 900hp?
>
> How much wheel speed is necessary to go 252mph?  ( think 295mph )....  Hmmm
> or say 257?
>
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  2 09:47:56 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 15:47:56 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NO Valve Springs   Jus' whoom-Bah
In-Reply-To: <009301c7ed59$dc1870d0$0200a8c0@brightstar>
References: <009301c7ed59$dc1870d0$0200a8c0@brightstar>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W301BB126DEF34F5CCCA644D9C80@phx.gbl>

          Halley -looooo-Ya!



  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,  -who's seen a dam fast one run
on the AMA mile pro flat track at Syracuse'  in 2005.  Lotta Harleys  to
fight, but there it was !                        (Saw an Aprillia run there
too -to place in the top 5 I believe)



> From: mactem at mebtel.net
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 08:07:39 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs   !!!!!
>
> I believe that Ducati has the fastest 800cc MotoGP bike at around 210
> mph due to having desmodronic valve train. In a straight, they walk
> right past the Japanese bikes.

    David


_________________________________________________________________
Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces.
It's easy!
http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m
kt=en-us

From kturk at ala.net  Sun Sep  2 10:12:54 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 11:12:54 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
References: <00c101c7eccf$30a3e020$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<20070902085517.vx9tkr51esc4k84k@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
Message-ID: <017b01c7ed7c$1f2c6800$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Yes our problems were created by DRAG....  with a given weight... you have X 
amount of Traction,  If you have the HP available it will overcome that 
traction and the tires spin,  Bout that simple.

So the choices are to decrease the HP to a level that doesn't spin the 
tires,  to decrease the overall drag of the car, or add more downforce ( 
think Ballast or aerodynamic aids/Band-Aids ).

By doing all three of these things we increased our speed on a deteriorating 
race track.

We could have decreased the HP simply by lifting our fat feet off the 
throttle a bit... but we had a really hinkey throttle set up... and it 
wasn't as polite as it should have been.... Throttle pedals need lots of 
travel and to be extremely smooth... this one had neither of those things... 
( but it was Morse cable actuated which we felt was a requirement with the 
blower, allows you to manually close the throttle blades )  By taking the 
Blower off and running an 8-1 motor on a single 4 and nitrous we decreased 
the Hp from 1200 down to around 900hp.

We increased the downforce by adding some spoiler angle.  Even thou it adds 
drag we felt the increase in pressure on the tires was worth the increase in 
drag.

Last but not least significant,  we took off that Barn door on the motor and 
put on our Aerodynamically friendly, wind tunnel approved Hood scoop. 
Radically decreasing the overall drag on the car and freeing up the traction 
we had to build speed instead of spinning the tires...

Hmmm that's about it.

Keith... ( see it wasn't even rocket science... just plain logic. )

From mactem at mebtel.net  Sun Sep  2 10:30:47 2007
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 12:30:47 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
Message-ID: <00ae01c7ed7e$9ea38fd0$0200a8c0@brightstar>

Dang... Don't ya just hate those hinkey throttles!

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Sep  2 10:39:19 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 09:39:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Book Review: Flat Out - MotorcycleUSA.com
Message-ID: <000501c7ed7f$cf386e80$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com:80/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=5222&Page=1

sounds like a great book
dale
resting after getting up at 5am to work on wall for wife in pahrump only 90
degrees now

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 10:46:09 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:46:09 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] 2007 Pebble Beach Winner>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <090220071646.15995.46DAE8D1000525A900003E7B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>

Wasn't the winner of the 2007 Pebble Beach Concour's a MArmon Meteor?

I know the MOrmons have a lot of influence in Utah and that Ab Jenkins probably was a Mormon but I don't believe The Church Of Latter Day Saints ever manufactured an automobile.

I noticed that even the web site link   (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/20/pebble-beach-week-2007-mormon-meteor-takes-b
est-of-show-at-pebb/) 
 called it a Mormon.  I'd like to give the church all the recognition they deserve but giving them credit for this fine automobile is carrying it a bit too far!

I guess that the fact that the Mormons are still in business and the Marmon Company is out of business just proves the old saying "It pays to advertise."

Jim

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Sep  2 10:53:11 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 10:53:11 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] 2007 Pebble Beach Winner>From>Jim McNaul
References: <090220071646.15995.46DAE8D1000525A900003E7B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <008301c7ed81$bf881880$6401a8c0@Glens>

All 3 cars have been named Mormon Meteors. The next time I see Marv who 
lives a couple of miles from me I will ask.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] 2007 Pebble Beach Winner>From>Jim McNaul


> Wasn't the winner of the 2007 Pebble Beach Concour's a MArmon Meteor?
>
> I know the MOrmons have a lot of influence in Utah and that Ab Jenkins 
> probably was a Mormon but I don't believe The Church Of Latter Day Saints 
> ever manufactured an automobile.
>
> I noticed that even the web site link 
> (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/20/pebble-beach-week-2007-mormon-meteor-takes-b
> est-of-show-at-pebb/)
> called it a Mormon.  I'd like to give the church all the recognition they 
> deserve but giving them credit for this fine automobile is carrying it a 
> bit too far!
>
> I guess that the fact that the Mormons are still in business and the 
> Marmon Company is out of business just proves the old saying "It pays to 
> advertise."
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at ala.net  Sun Sep  2 11:17:09 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 12:17:09 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] 2007 Pebble Beach Winner>From>Jim McNaul
References: <090220071646.15995.46DAE8D1000525A900003E7B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<008301c7ed81$bf881880$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <019201c7ed85$1941bb80$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

This is the first and second Mormon meteor... Brad and I got a ride in this 
car on our way to our first speedweek at Bonneville ... incredible 
machine.... hate that Knox Kershaw sold it.... but obviously it's a 
significant part of our history....

K (can't blame the guy for wanting the 4.5 million it brought thou... ) 

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 11:47:02 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:47:02 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Camless engine>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <090220071747.7095.46DAF715000F2B6D00001BB722007614380101090E030906@comcast.net>

The company I worked for for 32 years and retired from, International Truck & Engine Corp. has had a "Camless" diesel engine running since 1995. 

http://www.dieselnet.com/news/2000/04navistar.php

It uses an electro-hydraulic valve actuation controlled by the ECM. 

Jim McNaul
aka JGMagoo

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 11:58:31 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:58:31 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Valve springs - Or Lack Of Valve Springs>From>Jim
	McNaul
Message-ID: <090220071758.1459.46DAF9C7000A275D000005B322007503300101090E030906@comcast.net>

Last I heard from the highly secretive world of Formula One, was that they were using multiple poppet valves (like 5-per cylinder), opened by a camshaft but closed by compressed air pressure instead of valve springs.

They say cooling metalic valve springs at 19,000 RPM is an insurmountable problem.

Thats about 158 valve cycles per second! And they race for over an hour!

Eeee-yowwww!

JG

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 12:03:45 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 11:03:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Camless engine>From>Jim McNaul
References: <090220071747.7095.46DAF715000F2B6D00001BB722007614380101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003f01c7ed8b$9f743a60$6501a8c0@S>

Thanks, Jim.  This'll be an interesting lead to follow up when I cool down in
front of my computer this evening.
Looks like they may have it figured out for up to a few thousand rpm.  I
wonder how far they are from bringing this technology to market and what are
the limitations. Haven't read the whole press release yet, copied it into a
.doc; but when sweat is dripping in your eyes it's not worth trying to study
anything other than a glass of cold lemonade......... and that's a short
study.
Nothing new under this sun, is there?
Ed Weldon
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: jgmagoo at comcast.net
  To: 23.weldon at comcast.net>
  Cc: land-speed-digest
  Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 10:47 AM
  Subject: Camless engine>From>Jim McNaul


  The company I worked for for 32 years and retired from, International Truck
& Engine Corp. has had a "Camless" diesel engine running since 1995.

  http://www.dieselnet.com/news/2000/04navistar.php

  It uses an electro-hydraulic valve actuation controlled by the ECM.

  Jim McNaul
  aka JGMagoo

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun Sep  2 12:08:45 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 11:08:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Camless engine>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <090220071747.7095.46DAF715000F2B6D00001BB722007614380101090E030906@comcast.net>
References: <090220071747.7095.46DAF715000F2B6D00001BB722007614380101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <015f01c7ed8c$4e1bd640$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Jim;

Interesting link-- thanks. A low speed diesel engine is a much better
candidate for that technology. It gets really difficult when the RPM goes
up.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
jgmagoo at comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 10:47 AM
To: 23.weldon at comcast.net>
Cc: land-speed-digest
Subject: [Land-speed] Camless engine>From>Jim McNaul

The company I worked for for 32 years and retired from, International Truck
& Engine Corp. has had a "Camless" diesel engine running since 1995. 

http://www.dieselnet.com/news/2000/04navistar.php

It uses an electro-hydraulic valve actuation controlled by the ECM. 

Jim McNaul
aka JGMagoo
_______________________________________________
neil at dbelltech.com

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 12:11:22 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:11:22 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Soccer Ball Sized Engines>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <090220071811.27942.46DAFCCA00006FE800006D2622069997350101090E030906@comcast.net>

A fellow in Denver, Coloraod, Ron Bement has made these two 'soccer-ball-sized engines. An Offenhauser and a Ford flathead. 

Both run and were displayed in California.  The Offy has full mechanical Hilborn-style injection. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzjJYX74ZZE    (with sound)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBhiDHfc1es    (with sound)

He is currently working on a fully water-cooled Ardun OHV conversion flathead of the same scale. 

Jim McNaul
aka JGMagoo

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Sep  2 12:19:38 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 11:19:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Soccer Ball Sized Engines>From>Jim McNaul
References: <090220071811.27942.46DAFCCA00006FE800006D2622069997350101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001701c7ed8d$d2accc60$6400a8c0@Dale>

will these engines fit in I engine class?
dale
resting from heat and all the work this morning in pahrump

From>Jim McNaul


>A fellow in Denver, Coloraod, Ron Bement has made these two 
>'soccer-ball-sized engines. An Offenhauser and a Ford flathead.
>
> Both run and were displayed in California.  The Offy has full mechanical 
> Hilborn-style injection.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzjJYX74ZZE    (with sound)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBhiDHfc1es    (with sound)
>
> He is currently working on a fully water-cooled Ardun OHV conversion 
> flathead of the same scale.
>
> Jim McNaul
> aka JGMagoo

From karhu at california.com  Sun Sep  2 12:51:44 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 11:51:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer tires
References: <000001c7ecf1$16378800$3574a943@dim8100>
Message-ID: <00f401c7ed92$4f57a2e0$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

I've had at least several tires plugged, including a few i did myself
decades ago.  All of 'em wore out without the plug leaking...I think,
like lots of stuff, it's more important that you understand how the
technique should be done and when it can be used than a blanket
prohibition.  OTOH, mebbe I've just been lucky.
Benn

> Never, ever, leave a flat "plugged"!  YMMV,   -Elon

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Sep  2 13:02:48 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 13:02:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
In-Reply-To: <017b01c7ed7c$1f2c6800$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <00c101c7eccf$30a3e020$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<20070902085517.vx9tkr51esc4k84k@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
	<017b01c7ed7c$1f2c6800$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <20070902130248.7bfp4j4zcwgc0884@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Hmmm, it seems Slim or someother scooter guy told me about getting
high speed wheel spin due to aero drag so all you explained makes sense.

The unanswered question:  is there wheel slip and about how much? That
is, wheel slip short of the fancy dismount (BIG spin)???

and thanks for taking the time to run through all that typing . . .

David in Durango



Quoting Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net>:

> Yes our problems were created by DRAG....  with a given weight... you
> have X amount of Traction,  If you have the HP available it will
> overcome that traction and the tires spin,  Bout that simple.
>
> So the choices are to decrease the HP to a level that doesn't spin the
> tires,  to decrease the overall drag of the car, or add more downforce
> ( think Ballast or aerodynamic aids/Band-Aids ).
>
> By doing all three of these things we increased our speed on a
> deteriorating race track.
>
> We could have decreased the HP simply by lifting our fat feet off the
> throttle a bit... but we had a really hinkey throttle set up... and it
> wasn't as polite as it should have been.... Throttle pedals need lots
> of travel and to be extremely smooth... this one had neither of those
> things... ( but it was Morse cable actuated which we felt was a
> requirement with the blower, allows you to manually close the throttle
> blades )  By taking the Blower off and running an 8-1 motor on a single
> 4 and nitrous we decreased the Hp from 1200 down to around 900hp.
>
> We increased the downforce by adding some spoiler angle.  Even thou it
> adds drag we felt the increase in pressure on the tires was worth the
> increase in drag.
>
> Last but not least significant,  we took off that Barn door on the
> motor and put on our Aerodynamically friendly, wind tunnel approved
> Hood scoop. Radically decreasing the overall drag on the car and
> freeing up the traction we had to build speed instead of spinning the
> tires...
>
> Hmmm that's about it.
>
> Keith... ( see it wasn't even rocket science... just plain logic. )

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Sep  2 13:05:50 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 13:05:50 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Book Review: Flat Out - MotorcycleUSA.com
In-Reply-To: <000501c7ed7f$cf386e80$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7ed7f$cf386e80$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <20070902130550.unm3lc5668sgk888@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Only 90 degrees??

Send donations for the Pahrump sweater fund to . . . .



Quoting Dale H Pulju <d.pulju at pahrump.com>:

> http://www.motorcycle-usa.com:80/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=5222&Page=1
>
> sounds like a great book
> dale
> resting after getting up at 5am to work on wall for wife in pahrump only 90
> degrees now
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 15:00:35 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 15:00:35 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] More "Mormon Meteor"
In-Reply-To: <019201c7ed85$1941bb80$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <090220071646.15995.46DAE8D1000525A900003E7B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<008301c7ed81$bf881880$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<019201c7ed85$1941bb80$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <fa9ac1ad333941853e1555b7db8d2946@comcast.net>

The name "Mormon Meteor" was the winner in a contest to name the car 
sponsored by the Salt Lake City afternoon newspaper, the "Deseret 
News".  By that time Ab was an extremely popular guy in Utah as a 
result of his racing accomplishments.

Actually, the Mormon Meteor Knox Kershaw sold is Meteor #1.  Meteor #2, 
the 1935 car, was the Duesenberg car with the Duesenberg engine that 
wasn't up to the long, 4500 rpm, runs for Ab to be competitive.  He 
replaced that engine in the same chassis with a Curtiss Conqueror 
aircraft engine, matching the airplane motors the Brits were running.  
(The first non-stop flight across the Pacific Ocean was powered by a 
Curtiss Conqueror engine).  Lycoming Motors at Wiliamsport, PA 
converted two aircraft engines to Augie Duesenberg's specs and he 
supervised the engine replacement in the car.  Like the engines the 
Brits were using, they made more horsepower at half the rpm's.  With 
some bodywork changes that car became Mormon Meteor III.

Ab used to live two blocks from my home and I think about him every 
time I pass his old place.  Ab was very up front about being a Mormon.  
He credited his ability to drive for such extended periods of time to 
observing the "Word of Wisdom" which suggests not using tobacco or 
alcohol, "hot" drinks, (later defined as coffee and tea) and care in 
selecting your diet.  Pretty much what the doctors will tell you today 
but a revolutionary doctrine when it was first espoused in 1833.

Before he started endurance running on the salt, and convinced Reid 
Railton to bring his British friends to race there too, Ab made several 
coast to coast, record setting runs.  He did them with no relief and on 
roads that were sometimes very primitive in the 1920's.  When auto 
traffic made such runs more dangerous he switched to the hillclimb 
circuit.  He had the AAA select a Studebaker roadster from the assembly 
line in 1931 and he drove it to a win in every major hillclimb he 
entered that year.  He campaigned two Pierce Arrow "specials" on the 
salt in 1932 and 33-34 before switching to the Duesenberg chassis 
Meteor #1 in 1935.

Wes

On Sep 2, 2007, at 11:17 AM, Keith Turk wrote:

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  2 17:26:36 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes
Message-ID: <561563.13469.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What are some of the ways that wire seal holes have been drilled in engines?  I'm thinking cross-drilling a couple of head bolts?
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas

       
---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 17:38:17 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 23:38:17 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Marmons & Mormons>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <090220072338.24453.46DB4969000B3DDF00005F8522064246130101090E030906@comcast.net>

Many thanks to Glen, Wester, Kieth and Ed, for setting me straight!  

I somehow thought the 2007 Pebble Beach winner was manufactured by the MARMON Automobile Company (1903 to 1933 - makers of the 'Marmon Wasp' - first Indy 500 winner) and people were mis-spelling the name MORMON (the religion). 

Now I get it!   The thing was made by Dusenberg (in 1935) and named  "The Mormon Meteor" due to the Ab Jenkins / Mormon / salt flats connection.

Learning every day!!...and loving it!   ;o)

Jim

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sun Sep  2 17:47:26 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 16:47:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes
References: <561563.13469.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <006601c7edbb$a329ee90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Many have been drilling their timing chain or gear drive covers bolts or 
buying pre-drilled allens. It allows the cylinder heads to be removed and 
allow th pan to come off for crank inspection. We still may may make you 
remove push rods and pump the engine on an aluminum block which uses 
sleeves.. We have pan rail, head bolts and intake to head also....Good Luck

Subject: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes


> What are some of the ways that wire seal holes have been drilled in 
> engines?  I'm thinking cross-drilling a couple of head bolts?

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Sep  2 19:29:19 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:29:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes
In-Reply-To: <006601c7edbb$a329ee90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <561563.13469.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<006601c7edbb$a329ee90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <46DB636F.1050400@mayfco.com>

JD, all, this is an interesting question. Is this a hold over from days 
when there was no impound? Or was there always an impound. Seems to me 
that with Dan there eagle eying everything in impound it would be pretty 
difficult to make any kind of significant engine change especially given 
the 4 hour work rule. And I know there will be cheats among us who could 
figure a way to do something. But is this one of those rules that has 
outlived it's day? Don't mind it just curious about it.

mayf
J.D. Tone wrote:

>Many have been drilling their timing chain or gear drive covers bolts or 
>buying pre-drilled allens. It allows the cylinder heads to be removed and 
>allow th pan to come off for crank inspection. We still may may make you 
>remove push rods and pump the engine on an aluminum block which uses 
>sleeves.. We have pan rail, head bolts and intake to head also....Good Luck
>
>Subject: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes
>
>
>  
>
>>What are some of the ways that wire seal holes have been drilled in 
>>engines?  I'm thinking cross-drilling a couple of head bolts?
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 20:13:37 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:13:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes
References: <561563.13469.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com><006601c7edbb$a329ee90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<46DB636F.1050400@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <000601c7edd0$0c4caac0$6501a8c0@S>

Mayf-- You seal the engine and that seal is good for a long period of time.
Like months; I forget how many but it lets you run the rest of the meet and
near term future meets without having to tear down. (JD--How long?)  Lots of
folks take good advantage of that.  Especially important if your record
verification requires major work like a head removal and you forsee the
possibility of another record attempt in the near term.
Pays to preprep your engine with properly prepared bolts even though that
may be an act of extreme hubris.  (I'm thinking of myself here).  I remember
a scene some 19 years ago drilling holes in some 5/64 engine bolt heads
while in impound.  Fortunately someone brought a vise along.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
Cc: "lsr list autox" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes


> JD, all, this is an interesting question. Is this a hold over from days
> when there was no impound? Or was there always an impound. Seems to me
> that with Dan there eagle eying everything in impound it would be pretty
> difficult to make any kind of significant engine change especially given
> the 4 hour work rule. And I know there will be cheats among us who could
> figure a way to do something. But is this one of those rules that has
> outlived it's day? Don't mind it just curious about it.
> mayf

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Sun Sep  2 21:20:40 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:20:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?
In-Reply-To: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C421C600-7AAC-4EE2-B63C-60B00E3E7C2D@gmail.com>

On Sep 1, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Dick J wrote:

> The use of a valve train consisting of camshaft, lifters, pushrods,  
> rockers and heavy springs is really a fairly primitive way to open  
> and close valves, and is certainly a performance limiter.  It seems  
> like with the current development of electronic fuel injection, the  
> same elctronics could be applied to opening anc closing valves.   
> Sort of a solonoid, operated by the same kind of ECU as EFI, in  
> place of the entire valve train.  Any thoughts?
>
>   DickJ
>   In East Texas

I think these guys have what you want. I emailed them a couple years  
ago, got very little answers (wasn't a viable customer at the time) I  
would like to get this kind of system into my eclipse.

<http://www.sturmanindustries.com/>

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Sun Sep  2 21:23:24 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:23:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?
In-Reply-To: <C421C600-7AAC-4EE2-B63C-60B00E3E7C2D@gmail.com>
References: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<C421C600-7AAC-4EE2-B63C-60B00E3E7C2D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A13D0E10-9676-426D-9B4B-C7905BA4FB08@gmail.com>

On Sep 2, 2007, at 8:20 PM, Jon Bishop wrote:

>
> On Sep 1, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Dick J wrote:
>
>> The use of a valve train consisting of camshaft, lifters,  
>> pushrods, rockers and heavy springs is really a fairly primitive  
>> way to open and close valves, and is certainly a performance  
>> limiter.  It seems like with the current development of electronic  
>> fuel injection, the same elctronics could be applied to opening  
>> anc closing valves.  Sort of a solonoid, operated by the same kind  
>> of ECU as EFI, in place of the entire valve train.  Any thoughts?
>>
>>   DickJ
>>   In East Texas
>
> I think these guys have what you want. I emailed them a couple  
> years ago, got very little answers (wasn't a viable customer at the  
> time) I would like to get this kind of system into my eclipse.
>
> <http://www.sturmanindustries.com/>
>

Here's a specific link:

<http://www.sturmanindustries.com/main/hydraulicValveActuation.htm>

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 21:30:34 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:30:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New car commercials (non LSR)
References: <561563.13469.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com><006601c7edbb$a329ee90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf><46DB636F.1050400@mayfco.com>
	<000601c7edd0$0c4caac0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <000601c7edda$cc636d30$6501a8c0@S>

I just watched on TV yet another commercial where a film crew, sundry
production vehicles and professional drivers go out to some flat desert dry
lake and tear up the surface in an attempt to convince us how much we need
one of their products.
I guess this is OK as long as it's not one of "our" lakes and winter rains
can repair the damage.  But I wonder if these advertizing types ever think
about that.... anyway......
Anybody know where these people like to go for their photo shoots?  Do they
ever show up at El Mirage?  Most of these dry lakes in the West are BLM
territory, I guess.  Does the BLM permit some or all of this?  Do they like
to go to Blackrock?  How many times do they have to practice and do takes
before they get enough footage?  What is the production of this sort of
advertisement involve that we'd find interesting?  Any of you guys out there
work on this stuff to buy groceries?  Or know someone who does?
Just curious.......
Ed Weldon

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Sun Sep  2 21:31:22 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:31:22 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Electrical Solenoid Valve Actuation ? YES.
In-Reply-To: <d0b.179b13c7.340b49c1@aol.com>
References: <d0b.179b13c7.340b49c1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2F5546DD-7DF4-4A7F-982E-F8CF7B81FF4D@gmail.com>

On Sep 1, 2007, at 4:03 PM, FastmetalBDF at aol.com wrote:

> Electric Solenoids operating valves on an internal combustion  
> engine, you
> ask ???  How about the Cadillac model a few years back with  
> rockers  controlled
> by electrical signals so it could cruise on 4 cylinders after  
> getting  up to
> speed on 8, and then 6, as it approached cruising speed  ?  Wasn't  
> it referred
> to as the 4-6-8 Cadillac Mileage Motor  ?  Another Motor Marvel  
> relegated to
> the dustbin of 20th Century  Wonder Cures for All that Ails Your  
> Auto ?  At
> least this one got put into  production ..... Was it not a  
> success ?  Too much
> maintenance involved  ?    Bruce, recalling waaaay back in my pre- 
> teen years

It tanked. I guess the theory was good, but tech wasn't up to the job  
yet, so the motor ran poorly on 4 and 6, had little or no power at  
that range, and then was still a gas hog (which is what the 4-6-8  
design was trying to solve)

All new Chrysler Hemis run on a similiar "displacement on demand"  
design, 4 cylinder cruising with v8 power. They average 20mpg.

> <snip>

~Jon

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Sun Sep  2 21:34:19 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:34:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cell phone for radio?
In-Reply-To: <090220071443.16601.46DACBFE0009864A000040D92160376316970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
References: <090220071443.16601.46DACBFE0009864A000040D92160376316970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
Message-ID: <1C544B11-64EC-4DD2-B7B7-40E18AE06211@gmail.com>

On Sep 2, 2007, at 7:43 AM, John Szalay wrote:

>  Verizon wireless (cellphone) has that feature.
> its what they call Push to Talk  or Walkie -Talkie .
>
>
> http://support.vzw.com/features/data_services/push_to_talk.html
>
<snip>

Sprint/Nextel built their business (Nextel) on the PTT (push to talk)  
feature. It also works when cell reception is spotty.

~Jon

From David.Freiburger at primedia.com  Sun Sep  2 22:49:42 2007
From: David.Freiburger at primedia.com (Freiburger, David)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:49:42 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] New car commercials (non LSR)
Message-ID: <AF861B2175084742B5036EF0A13B88CF041053D7@PDGEVS01.primedia.prm>

That's all El Mirage, all permitted.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 22:59:44 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 21:59:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?
References: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com><C421C600-7AAC-4EE2-B63C-60B00E3E7C2D@gmail.com>
	<A13D0E10-9676-426D-9B4B-C7905BA4FB08@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002101c7ede7$442ff390$6501a8c0@S>

I looked over Sturman's website.  If I take what they say there at face
value it looks like they've pretty much solved the first order control and
valve actuation problems even for pretty high rpm's.  I note the following
words on one Sturman web page: "Integrated position feedback".  This is
pretty key IMHO.  I'd be willing to bet they are currently wrestling with
the problems of making their hardware work in the tough environment of real
world engine operation.
The cynic in me notes that the achievements they are able to publicise date
back 6 years (if you don't count the 2005 DOE contract). So does the
copyright date on web site layout.
 Too bad they seem to be a bit full of themselves to talk to any little
guys.  Folks like us are just as capable of signing an NDA as some big
corporation and probably a bit more likely to actually honor it.
That DOE contract probably supports several salaries and goes a long way to
pay the rent and buy hardware for the shop.  But I doubt if they can afford
to pay someone like Roush to build them a test bed car.
Maybe there's still an opportunity for one of our accomplished land speed
racing guys to make an interesting connection there.  The best way would be
to make a direct contact with Eddie Sturman and feel him out.  Would likely
require a pretty serious commitment.  How about pushing the frontier of
modern small bike engine technology beyond the limits imposed by the
conventional valve train?  And without needing a Formula 1 racing budget to
do it.
OK, back to reality............
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Bishop" <jon.the.wise at gmail.com>
To: "lsr list autox" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Dick J"
<lsr_man at yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?


> On Sep 2, 2007, at 8:20 PM, Jon Bishop wrote:

> > I think these guys have what you want. I emailed them a couple
> > years ago, got very little answers (wasn't a viable customer at the
> > time) I would like to get this kind of system into my eclipse.
> > <http://www.sturmanindustries.com/>
> Here's a specific link:
> <http://www.sturmanindustries.com/main/hydraulicValveActuation.htm>

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sun Sep  2 23:04:09 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 22:04:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes
References: <561563.13469.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<006601c7edbb$a329ee90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<46DB636F.1050400@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <002501c7ede7$dfe39210$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

In the "old days" 1975 there was no sealing of engines. After qualifying (on 
the short course this meant going over the record in the 1/4 mile even 
though the record was set in the mile) you went back to your pit and did 
what you wanted. In the morning you showed up at the gas truck with an empty 
tank. You bought the gas, the tank was sealed, and you went out and went 
both ways hopefully better than the old record. You then went to what was 
called impounds and removed your cylinder head for measuring. Everything was 
measured. If you wanted to run again you put it together in impounds. It 
could possibly be sealed with some tape and fingernail polish.

When Bruce Johnston and then Dan Warner took over record impounds things 
changed. Especially to 2 pass instead of 3 pass rules for a record. Today 
Dan and his team do things a little different. Especially when it comes to 
the displacement pump. They are sent off periodically for calibration and 
instructions are followed very closely. If properly used they can be very 
accurate. For the racers convience the engine MAYBE sealed and that is why 
we ask the holes for sealing be on each engine. The seal is good for one 
year.

At any time we may ask for a pump or tear down. It is Dan's discretion. If 
someone protests an engine I assume it would be measured directly and not 
pumped.. If a protest does occur and the engine will not be measured on site 
it must be sealed so that the person does see this is the correct engine 
they are measuring at the time it is done.



> JD, all, this is an interesting question. Is this a hold over from days 
> when there was no impound? Or was there always an impound. Seems to me 
> that with Dan there eagle eying everything in impound it would be pretty 
> difficult to make any kind of significant engine change especially given 
> the 4 hour work rule. And I know there will be cheats among us who could 
> figure a way to do something. But is this one of those rules that has 
> outlived it's day? Don't mind it just curious about it.
>
> mayf

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Sun Sep  2 23:39:40 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 22:39:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?
In-Reply-To: <002101c7ede7$442ff390$6501a8c0@S>
References: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com><C421C600-7AAC-4EE2-B63C-60B00E3E7C2D@gmail.com>
	<A13D0E10-9676-426D-9B4B-C7905BA4FB08@gmail.com>
	<002101c7ede7$442ff390$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <1F5AEF1D-D1E4-4E0B-BDD1-F5FFB163B576@gmail.com>

On Sep 2, 2007, at 9:59 PM, Ed Weldon wrote:

> I looked over Sturman's website.  If I take what they say there at  
> face
> value it looks like they've pretty much solved the first order  
> control and
> valve actuation problems even for pretty high rpm's.  I note the  
> following
> words on one Sturman web page: "Integrated position feedback".   
> This is
> pretty key IMHO.  I'd be willing to bet they are currently  
> wrestling with
> the problems of making their hardware work in the tough environment  
> of real
> world engine operation.

I dunno.

 From their site "In 2000, we drove one of our Camless vehicles to  
the top of Pikes Peak. In the same year, we took a Camless vehicle on  
a 10,000 mile U.S. tour. We have operated vehicles from a Camless VW  
Jetta to a Camless International semi-truck and have run our systems  
up to 15,000 rpm frequency."


> The cynic in me notes that the achievements they are able to  
> publicise date
> back 6 years (if you don't count the 2005 DOE contract). So does the
> copyright date on web site layout.

The cynic in me tends to agree with you.

>  Too bad they seem to be a bit full of themselves to talk to any  
> little
> guys.  Folks like us are just as capable of signing an NDA as some big
> corporation and probably a bit more likely to actually honor it.
> That DOE contract probably supports several salaries and goes a  
> long way to
> pay the rent and buy hardware for the shop.  But I doubt if they  
> can afford
> to pay someone like Roush to build them a test bed car.

I don't disagree, but it would appear they do have working vehicles  
built, if only proprietary systems, it's a start at least.

> Maybe there's still an opportunity for one of our accomplished land  
> speed
> racing guys to make an interesting connection there.  The best way  
> would be
> to make a direct contact with Eddie Sturman and feel him out.   
> Would likely
> require a pretty serious commitment.  How about pushing the  
> frontier of
> modern small bike engine technology beyond the limits imposed by the
> conventional valve train?  And without needing a Formula 1 racing  
> budget to
> do it.

Well, if anybody else has a 4g63t engine they'd like to do it with,  
that'd make 2 of us... I would like very much to see DSMLink  
incorporate control over valve timing the way the fuel and spark is  
controlled... see the charts here:

<http://www.sturmanindustries.com/main/flexibleCharts.htm>

> OK, back to reality............
> Ed Weldon

Why? Then I have to go pay the bills!

~Jon

>
>> On Sep 2, 2007, at 8:20 PM, Jon Bishop wrote:
>
>>> I think these guys have what you want. I emailed them a couple
>>> years ago, got very little answers (wasn't a viable customer at the
>>> time) I would like to get this kind of system into my eclipse.
>>> <http://www.sturmanindustries.com/>
>> Here's a specific link:
>> <http://www.sturmanindustries.com/main/hydraulicValveActuation.htm>

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Mon Sep  3 00:01:15 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:01:15 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Sturman Industries (was Re: How About - - No Cam at
 all?)
In-Reply-To: <002101c7ede7$442ff390$6501a8c0@S>
References: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com><C421C600-7AAC-4EE2-B63C-60B00E3E7C2D@gmail.com>
	<A13D0E10-9676-426D-9B4B-C7905BA4FB08@gmail.com>
	<002101c7ede7$442ff390$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <DB3D6245-294E-4BFD-B7E1-E5B8CE68A567@gmail.com>

Well, on a whim I thought I'd go ahead and email them again. It's  
been a couple years, my goals have changed, and my car has gotten a  
lot more put together, so I thought I'd give it a shot. Below is my  
email. I guess we shall see if I get any kind of response.

~Jon


> Hello,
>
> I'm a grassroots racer that's been working on building a car for  
> road racing/salt flat competition. My goal is to put together a car  
> that can produce high output power for short courses (the 1/4 mile,  
> Dallas Mile, etc) more sustained power (salt flats and other long  
> distance top speed venues) as well as road racing (laguna seca,  
> sears point, etc). The chosen vehicle is a 1995 mitsubishi eclipse  
> GSX. This is an all wheel drive, 4 cylinder turbocharged car. The  
> fuel and ignition systems are already tied to the ECU and can be  
> adjusted with the help of DSMLink (www.dsmlink.com). I would like  
> to find out about the possibility of integrating a hydraulic valve  
> system instead of the current Interference DOHC setup. Can you  
> please put me in contact with someone that might be able to advise  
> me as to what requirements I might have, and how I may implement  
> your technology on my car? Thanks a bunch.
>
> ~Jon Bishop

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Sep  3 00:35:57 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:35:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?
References: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com><C421C600-7AAC-4EE2-B63C-60B00E3E7C2D@gmail.com>
	<A13D0E10-9676-426D-9B4B-C7905BA4FB08@gmail.com>
	<002101c7ede7$442ff390$6501a8c0@S>
	<1F5AEF1D-D1E4-4E0B-BDD1-F5FFB163B576@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003701c7edf4$b5a8cc10$6501a8c0@S>

Jon--
Working vehicles with solenoid valve actuation don't show me a lot.  I can
think of several dozen current and past land speed racers who would be
perfectly capable of taking a modern car with a 4 cylinder overhead valve or
overhead cam engine and have it running with no cam and solenoids lifting
the valves in a few weeks of tinkering.  It wouldn't put out a lot of power
because the necessary light valve springs would severely limit rpm likely
well below 2000.  All you'd need would be a 2nd distributor with motor
comutators and brushes switching the solenoids backward and forward and
maybe some special attention to keeping them cool so the insulation wouldn't
burn up after prolonged operation since you'd want to keep them "on" to hold
the valves open or closed as required.  Timing changes would require just a
bit of creativity in design and building of the comutator segments and the
brush mountings.
I'm sure the project would climb Pikes Peak in first gear; but it would be a
slow trip.
It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put this thing under digital control
with a speed sensor on the crankshaft and some transistors and solid state
relays taking computer output and turning it into switching the solenoid
driver currents.  Might be a bit of a challenge synchronizing this with the
throttle and some dampening so it doesn't fight with the valve control.
Classic control problem.
Now developing this to the point of threatening an H or G gas
record.......That's a whole different story.
Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Bishop" <jon.the.wise at gmail.com>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
Cc: "lsr list autox" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Dick J"
<lsr_man at yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?

> On Sep 2, 2007, at 9:59 PM, Ed Weldon wrote:
> > I looked over Sturman's website. ......

> I don't disagree, but it would appear they do have working vehicles
> built, if only proprietary systems, it's a start at least.

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Mon Sep  3 01:36:21 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 00:36:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] How About - - No Cam at all?
In-Reply-To: <003701c7edf4$b5a8cc10$6501a8c0@S>
References: <124050.12330.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com><C421C600-7AAC-4EE2-B63C-60B00E3E7C2D@gmail.com>
	<A13D0E10-9676-426D-9B4B-C7905BA4FB08@gmail.com>
	<002101c7ede7$442ff390$6501a8c0@S>
	<1F5AEF1D-D1E4-4E0B-BDD1-F5FFB163B576@gmail.com>
	<003701c7edf4$b5a8cc10$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <58DF1B4C-0324-43F2-A302-F191D11E0678@gmail.com>

On Sep 2, 2007, at 11:35 PM, Ed Weldon wrote:


> well below 2000.  All you'd need would be a 2nd distributor with motor
> comutators and brushes switching the solenoids backward and forward  
> and
> maybe some special attention to keeping them cool so the insulation  
> wouldn't
> burn up after prolonged operation since you'd want to keep them  
> "on" to hold
> the valves open or closed as required.  Timing changes would  
> require just a
> bit of creativity in design and building of the comutator segments  
> and the
> brush mountings.

That's an interesting idea, sounds like the first steps in a  
mechanically controlled system... I think these guys at Sturman are  
using a computer and some hydraulics to perform this operation.

> I'm sure the project would climb Pikes Peak in first gear; but it  
> would be a
> slow trip.
> It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put this thing under digital  
> control
> with a speed sensor on the crankshaft and some transistors and  
> solid state
> relays taking computer output and turning it into switching the  
> solenoid
> driver currents.  Might be a bit of a challenge synchronizing this  
> with the
> throttle and some dampening so it doesn't fight with the valve  
> control.
> Classic control problem.

Yeap, and I think that they have managed to resolve this issue, but  
again, their site only shows limited info, so I couldn't say for sure.

> Now developing this to the point of threatening an H or G gas
> record.......That's a whole different story.
> Ed

See, that's what I'm wondering about, cause according to their site,  
they've gotten engines to run 15,000 rpms in Jettas and  
Internationals (at least one of each) so, the first question I have  
then, is this a diesel only application, or have they got it working  
well with both gas and diesel? (the jetta could be either) And  
finally at 15,000 rpms, what kind out output are they making?

<http://www.sturmanindustries.com/main/hydraulicValveActuation.htm> :
>  In 2000, we drove one of our Camless vehicles to the top of Pikes  
> Peak. In the same year, we took a Camless vehicle on a 10,000 mile  
> U.S. tour. We have operated vehicles from a Camless VW Jetta to a  
> Camless International semi-truck and have run our systems up to  
> 15,000 rpm frequency.

Guess I can just hope for a response to my email and see for myself,  
because the idea of being able to dyno tune my valve timing right  
along with my fuel and ignition on my laptop gives me both wet dreams  
AND nightmares to think about. :-)

~Jon

>> On Sep 2, 2007, at 9:59 PM, Ed Weldon wrote:
>>> I looked over Sturman's website. ......
>
>> I don't disagree, but it would appear they do have working vehicles
>> built, if only proprietary systems, it's a start at least.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Sep  3 07:29:08 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 06:29:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes
In-Reply-To: <002501c7ede7$dfe39210$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <561563.13469.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<006601c7edbb$a329ee90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<46DB636F.1050400@mayfco.com>
	<002501c7ede7$dfe39210$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <46DC0C24.3070208@mayfco.com>

Yhanks, I was curious.

mayf
J.D. Tone wrote:

> In the "old days" 1975 there was no sealing of engines. After 
> qualifying (on the short course this meant going over the record in 
> the 1/4 mile even though the record was set in the mile) you went back 
> to your pit and did what you wanted. In the morning you showed up at 
> the gas truck with an empty tank. You bought the gas, the tank was 
> sealed, and you went out and went both ways hopefully better than the 
> old record. You then went to what was called impounds and removed your 
> cylinder head for measuring. Everything was measured. If you wanted to 
> run again you put it together in impounds. It could possibly be sealed 
> with some tape and fingernail polish.
> When Bruce Johnston and then Dan Warner took over record impounds 
> things changed. Especially to 2 pass instead of 3 pass rules for a 
> record. Today Dan and his team do things a little different. 
> Especially when it comes to the displacement pump. They are sent off 
> periodically for calibration and instructions are followed very 
> closely. If properly used they can be very accurate. For the racers 
> convience the engine MAYBE sealed and that is why we ask the holes for 
> sealing be on each engine. The seal is good for one year.

>
> At any time we may ask for a pump or tear down. It is Dan's 
> discretion. If someone protests an engine I assume it would be 
> measured directly and not pumped.. If a protest does occur and the 
> engine will not be measured on site it must be sealed so that the 
> person does see this is the correct engine they are measuring at the 
> time it is done.
>
>
>
>> JD, all, this is an interesting question. Is this a hold over from 
>> days when there was no impound? Or was there always an impound. Seems 
>> to me that with Dan there eagle eying everything in impound it would 
>> be pretty difficult to make any kind of significant engine change 
>> especially given the 4 hour work rule. And I know there will be 
>> cheats among us who could figure a way to do something. But is this 
>> one of those rules that has outlived it's day? Don't mind it just 
>> curious about it.
>>
>> mayf

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Sep  3 08:44:05 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 08:44:05 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] New car commercials (non LSR)
References: <561563.13469.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com><006601c7edbb$a329ee90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf><46DB636F.1050400@mayfco.com><000601c7edd0$0c4caac0$6501a8c0@S>
	<000601c7edda$cc636d30$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <003201c7ee38$e270a1c0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Ed
It happens all the time at El Mirage, usually they are away from the race 
surface. The rave parties and off roaders do more damage to the lake bed.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "lsr list autox" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:30 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] New car commercials (non LSR)


>I just watched on TV yet another commercial where a film crew, sundry
> production vehicles and professional drivers go out to some flat desert 
> dry
> lake and tear up the surface in an attempt to convince us how much we need
> one of their products.
> I guess this is OK as long as it's not one of "our" lakes and winter rains
> can repair the damage.  But I wonder if these advertizing types ever think
> about that.... anyway......
> Anybody know where these people like to go for their photo shoots?  Do 
> they
> ever show up at El Mirage?  Most of these dry lakes in the West are BLM
> territory, I guess.  Does the BLM permit some or all of this?  Do they 
> like
> to go to Blackrock?  How many times do they have to practice and do takes
> before they get enough footage?  What is the production of this sort of
> advertisement involve that we'd find interesting?  Any of you guys out 
> there
> work on this stuff to buy groceries?  Or know someone who does?
> Just curious.......
> Ed Weldon
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Sep  3 08:53:55 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 08:53:55 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Marmons & Mormons>From>Jim McNaul
References: <090220072338.24453.46DB4969000B3DDF00005F8522064246130101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003f01c7ee3a$40dc1ef0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Jim
There is a book(small) on Ab Jenkins. When I get a chance I will look up 
where to buy it. Wester might know off the top of his head. It's good 
reading. Like I said earlier Marv. lives just down the road from me as does 
Rick Vesco. There are other LSR people in the area as well so this old 
Calif. racer isn't bored.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:38 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Marmons & Mormons>From>Jim McNaul


> Many thanks to Glen, Wester, Kieth and Ed, for setting me straight!
>
> I somehow thought the 2007 Pebble Beach winner was manufactured by the 
> MARMON Automobile Company (1903 to 1933 - makers of the 'Marmon Wasp' - 
> first Indy 500 winner) and people were mis-spelling the name MORMON (the 
> religion).
>
> Now I get it!   The thing was made by Dusenberg (in 1935) and named  "The 
> Mormon Meteor" due to the Ab Jenkins / Mormon / salt flats connection.
>
> Learning every day!!...and loving it!   ;o)
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Mon Sep  3 09:04:19 2007
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 11:04:19 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Marmons & Mormons>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <003f01c7ee3a$40dc1ef0$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <090220072338.24453.46DB4969000B3DDF00005F8522064246130101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<003f01c7ee3a$40dc1ef0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <45ac72e90709030804h70952180hc70d93b91e68a574@mail.gmail.com>

www.amazon.com search Ab Jenkins. The book comes up first on the list

On 9/3/07, Glen Barrett <speedtimer at beyondbb.com> wrote:
> Jim
> There is a book(small) on Ab Jenkins. When I get a chance I will look up
> where to buy it. Wester might know off the top of his head. It's good
> reading. Like I said earlier Marv. lives just down the road from me as does
> Rick Vesco. There are other LSR people in the area as well so this old
> Calif. racer isn't bored.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
> To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:38 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Marmons & Mormons>From>Jim McNaul
>
>
> > Many thanks to Glen, Wester, Kieth and Ed, for setting me straight!
> >
> > I somehow thought the 2007 Pebble Beach winner was manufactured by the
> > MARMON Automobile Company (1903 to 1933 - makers of the 'Marmon Wasp' -
> > first Indy 500 winner) and people were mis-spelling the name MORMON (the
> > religion).
> >
> > Now I get it!   The thing was made by Dusenberg (in 1935) and named  "The
> > Mormon Meteor" due to the Ab Jenkins / Mormon / salt flats connection.
> >
> > Learning every day!!...and loving it!   ;o)
> >
> > Jim
> > _______________________________________________
> > speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Sep  3 10:25:39 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 09:25:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
Message-ID: <46DC3583.1080206@mayfco.com>

Us geezers were having breakfast this morning at our usual haunt and the 
subject of aerodynamic surfaces came up. In this case, moveable 
aerodynamic surfaces. This would be int he form of say a rudder on a 
tail or a set of flaps on the trailing edges of wings.  These would be 
moveable during a run down the course. The question is legality. I do 
not see anything in the rule book that actually prevents this, so are 
moveable aerodynamic surfaces legal in any vehicle?  I can see where 
horizontal surfaces with flaps could enhance traction by putting more 
down force on the vehicle and I can see how a rudder with a moveable 
surface could help recover from an upset condition such as a spin.  So 
what's the answer? Anybody have an "in" with tech and rules committee?  
No, this is for discussion and curiosity only. I do not even have a 
spoiler on my car (yet).

Thanks,

mayf

From bennevl at bellsouth.net  Mon Sep  3 10:33:41 2007
From: bennevl at bellsouth.net (Bill Bennett)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:33:41 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Electrical Solenoid Valve Actuation ? YES.
References: <d0b.179b13c7.340b49c1@aol.com>
	<2F5546DD-7DF4-4A7F-982E-F8CF7B81FF4D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c7ee48$31020360$6401a8c0@homedesktop>

GM has brought it back . They are calling actrive fuel management. They are 
using it in the V6 and V8 motors in the suv and truck lines. Basically it's 
a hydraulic roller lifter with a locking pin that allows them to collapse 
the lifter. They use a bank of electrically activated hyrdualic valves 
mounted in the lifter valley to control the locking pins. The lifter itself 
is a highly complicated piece with very close tolerances and very diificult 
to produce.
Bill

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Bishop" <jon.the.wise at gmail.com>
To: <FastmetalBDF at aol.com>
Cc: <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electrical Solenoid Valve Actuation ? YES.


> On Sep 1, 2007, at 4:03 PM, FastmetalBDF at aol.com wrote:
>
>> Electric Solenoids operating valves on an internal combustion  engine, 
>> you
>> ask ???  How about the Cadillac model a few years back with  rockers 
>> controlled
>> by electrical signals so it could cruise on 4 cylinders after  getting 
>> up to
>> speed on 8, and then 6, as it approached cruising speed  ?  Wasn't  it 
>> referred
>> to as the 4-6-8 Cadillac Mileage Motor  ?  Another Motor Marvel 
>> relegated to
>> the dustbin of 20th Century  Wonder Cures for All that Ails Your  Auto ? 
>> At
>> least this one got put into  production ..... Was it not a  success ? 
>> Too much
>> maintenance involved  ?    Bruce, recalling waaaay back in my pre- teen 
>> years
>
> It tanked. I guess the theory was good, but tech wasn't up to the job 
> yet, so the motor ran poorly on 4 and 6, had little or no power at  that 
> range, and then was still a gas hog (which is what the 4-6-8  design was 
> trying to solve)
>
> All new Chrysler Hemis run on a similiar "displacement on demand"  design, 
> 4 cylinder cruising with v8 power. They average 20mpg.
>
>> <snip>
>
> ~Jon

From bennevl at bellsouth.net  Mon Sep  3 10:37:10 2007
From: bennevl at bellsouth.net (Bill Bennett)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:37:10 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes
References: <561563.13469.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com><006601c7edbb$a329ee90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf><46DB636F.1050400@mayfco.com>
	<002501c7ede7$dfe39210$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <006b01c7ee48$ad9c0dd0$6401a8c0@homedesktop>

Is there any way it can be certified and sealed at build time?
Bill

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Sep  3 11:59:28 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 11:59:28 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
References: <46DC3583.1080206@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <007601c7ee54$2e3cd270$6401a8c0@Glens>

Art Arfons had a movable wing on the Green Monster jet car. Others have 
tried different things over the years but I don't have a record on who tried 
what. It don't take a lot of movement to upset the balance. What works in a 
wind tunnel may not work on the salt. But that's what LSR is all about , 
trying things.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...


> Us geezers were having breakfast this morning at our usual haunt and the
> subject of aerodynamic surfaces came up. In this case, moveable
> aerodynamic surfaces. This would be int he form of say a rudder on a
> tail or a set of flaps on the trailing edges of wings.  These would be
> moveable during a run down the course. The question is legality. I do
> not see anything in the rule book that actually prevents this, so are
> moveable aerodynamic surfaces legal in any vehicle?  I can see where
> horizontal surfaces with flaps could enhance traction by putting more
> down force on the vehicle and I can see how a rudder with a moveable
> surface could help recover from an upset condition such as a spin.  So
> what's the answer? Anybody have an "in" with tech and rules committee?
> No, this is for discussion and curiosity only. I do not even have a
> spoiler on my car (yet).
>
> Thanks,
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Flowbench at aol.com  Mon Sep  3 12:43:02 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 14:43:02 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
Message-ID: <c48.187ce582.340dafb6@aol.com>

As recently as 1995 the Hoffman/Markley 'liner set the E/BFS record @ 248  
mph with retractable wings, or canards (sp). Not sure I'd try to steer with one, 
 seems I remember Breedlove tried it on the Sprit back in '63. Your covering 
over  2 1/2 football fields a second at 300, when the Hammond lakester crashed 
@ 315  it was over almost before you knew it was happening. 
Hey Glen, you and JD and a few others have so much history both in print  and 
memory, what are we going to do in the future? Are you trying to scan it and  
write it down? I know it a tremendous amount of work but I'd hate to see us 
lose  the historic resource you guys are. The past is important in LSR as I'm 
sure you  know.



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Sep  3 13:06:43 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 13:06:43 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
References: <c48.187ce582.340dafb6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008501c7ee5d$91c451c0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Flowbench

It's coming, there is something in the works. It will take time but will be 
worth the wait.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Flowbench at aol.com>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...


> As recently as 1995 the Hoffman/Markley 'liner set the E/BFS record @ 248
> mph with retractable wings, or canards (sp). Not sure I'd try to steer 
> with one,
> seems I remember Breedlove tried it on the Sprit back in '63. Your 
> covering
> over  2 1/2 football fields a second at 300, when the Hammond lakester 
> crashed
> @ 315  it was over almost before you knew it was happening.
> Hey Glen, you and JD and a few others have so much history both in print 
> and
> memory, what are we going to do in the future? Are you trying to scan it 
> and
> write it down? I know it a tremendous amount of work but I'd hate to see 
> us
> lose  the historic resource you guys are. The past is important in LSR as 
> I'm
> sure you  know.
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL 
> at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Sep  3 13:32:54 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:32:54 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
References: <46DC3583.1080206@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c7ee61$444772c0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Instead of wings and flaps why not shape the belly pan or underside of the 
car to form a venturi and add downforce that way ?

It's already done to a degree with IRL, CART, F1 cars and setting correct 
ride-height is necessary to properly "tune" the venturi.

The venturi down force could be made adjustable by bleeding some airflow 
upwards out of the venturi section as desired--might be easier to implement 
than building controlled wings or other aerodynamic surfaces. It may be that 
the additional drag from the venturi would be less than that due to wings 
for an equivalent amount of down force ( probably already known in secret F1 
inner sanctums). Maybe some list member could talk to Panoz or Dallara 
people about the venturi effect and it's application to LSR.

An alternate is the separate "sucker" fans as in the old Can-Am cars, but 
that requires a lot of complicated additional equipment and that much down 
force necessary for high g cornering isn't needed for straight-line salt 
running, so it might not be attractive cost/benefit wise either.

A fixed rudder can improve straight line stability but a moveable rudder to 
recover from a spin condition is another story. Would the frantic driver 
have to control both rudder and steering separately ? Link steering and 
rudder control together ? How and to what degree ? Use only the rudder for 
"at speed" steering ? Could work but very hairy to implement with lots of 
development and different driving skills required.

Lance


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...


> Us geezers were having breakfast this morning at our usual haunt and the
> subject of aerodynamic surfaces came up. In this case, moveable
> aerodynamic surfaces. This would be int he form of say a rudder on a
> tail or a set of flaps on the trailing edges of wings.  These would be
> moveable during a run down the course. The question is legality. I do
> not see anything in the rule book that actually prevents this, so are
> moveable aerodynamic surfaces legal in any vehicle?  I can see where
> horizontal surfaces with flaps could enhance traction by putting more
> down force on the vehicle and I can see how a rudder with a moveable
> surface could help recover from an upset condition such as a spin.  So
> what's the answer? Anybody have an "in" with tech and rules committee?
> No, this is for discussion and curiosity only. I do not even have a
> spoiler on my car (yet).
>
> Thanks,
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> jolylance at earthlink.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From Flowbench at aol.com  Mon Sep  3 13:37:00 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:37:00 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
Message-ID: <cff.15494dca.340dbc5c@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/3/2007 12:06:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

It's  coming, there is something in the works. It will take time but will be  
worth the wait.



Woo Hoo....
Thanks for EVERYTHING all you volunteers do.



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From Flowbench at aol.com  Mon Sep  3 13:53:47 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:53:47 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
Message-ID: <cce.165d4cf4.340dc04b@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/3/2007 11:43:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,  
Flowbench at aol.com writes:

As  recently as 1995 the Hoffman/Markley 'liner set the E/BFS record @ 248   

Opps, meant 348...

 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Sep  3 14:02:18 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 13:02:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes
References: <561563.13469.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com><006601c7edbb$a329ee90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf><46DB636F.1050400@mayfco.com>
	<002501c7ede7$dfe39210$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<006b01c7ee48$ad9c0dd0$6401a8c0@homedesktop>
Message-ID: <002d01c7ee65$5839f790$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Contact Dan Warner for directions. Many are done in this manner
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Wire Seal Holes


> Is there any way it can be certified and sealed at build time?
> Bill

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Sep  3 14:05:51 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 13:05:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
References: <46DC3583.1080206@mayfco.com>
	<003b01c7ee61$444772c0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <002301c7ee65$d6e9c2a0$6501a8c0@S>

The rule book allows this in modified roadsters subject to adherance to body
shape requirements.  Probably similar in other classes I'm less familiar
with like competition coupes.  You'll see variations on this theme in
several of the modified roadsters that are currently active.  Seems to help
there. IMHO better approach than a drag adding wing to get down force.  I'm
not so sure it would help in special construction classes where any rear
body contour is allowed.
With respect to spin control there may be some merit to the driver being
able to actively add downforce with a controlled change in aerodynamics like
when he/she feels the car getting a little loose at speed.  I think most of
us seem to agree, however, that once a spin starts events happen too fast
for a driver intervene in any useful way.
This is a tricky area to get into and would have to be watched pretty
closely until we all learned more about it.  Interesting to explore for
those whose resources are deep enough to include access to wind tunnel
testing.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joseph lance" <jolylance at earthlink.net>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...


> Instead of wings and flaps why not shape the belly pan or underside of the
> car to form a venturi and add downforce that way ?
> Lance

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Mon Sep  3 15:42:46 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:42:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cell phone for radio?
In-Reply-To: <1C544B11-64EC-4DD2-B7B7-40E18AE06211@gmail.com>
References: <090220071443.16601.46DACBFE0009864A000040D92160376316970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
	<1C544B11-64EC-4DD2-B7B7-40E18AE06211@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46DC7FD6.7020805@wildblue.net>

The salt in not friendly to radio transmission to or from cars
moving fast (150+) on the salt. Most notable failure was GM and
their telemetry. CB radios have the same problem. I don't know
about commercial FM radios or cell phones but I'd like to see
someone test them.


 

Jon Bishop wrote:
> On Sep 2, 2007, at 7:43 AM, John Szalay wrote:
>
>   
>>  Verizon wireless (cellphone) has that feature.
>> its what they call Push to Talk  or Walkie -Talkie .
>>
>>
>> http://support.vzw.com/features/data_services/push_to_talk.html
>>
>>     
> <snip>
>
> Sprint/Nextel built their business (Nextel) on the PTT (push to talk)  
> feature. It also works when cell reception is spotty.
>
> ~Jon

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Sep  3 16:09:25 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:09:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Electrical Solenoid Valve Actuation ? YES.
In-Reply-To: <005d01c7ee48$31020360$6401a8c0@homedesktop>
References: <d0b.179b13c7.340b49c1@aol.com><2F5546DD-7DF4-4A7F-982E-F8CF7B81FF4D@gmail.com>
	<005d01c7ee48$31020360$6401a8c0@homedesktop>
Message-ID: <1ECD27A8AD1C4787A42118DD0813E9A9@LMS>

Bill,  What is intresting ---as I understand it ther were two 
suppliers---when one didn't win the Major GM contract---they went with 
Chrysler---I think Gm uses both on different engs.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211 

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Sep  3 16:20:07 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:20:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Movable Spoiler
Message-ID: <C4FA16DDB19142C0A4141AD13A688E87@LMS>

I asked about a movable spoiler plate.   I was told if I wanted to make it
"Mecanical" that would be acceptable ie. if it returned to the same position
whether shiffting up or down ---if for example ---it was tied to the trans
gearshift position.  It would be consider not in compliance if it were to only
go down as it went down the track.

      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From bennevl at bellsouth.net  Mon Sep  3 16:29:26 2007
From: bennevl at bellsouth.net (Bill Bennett)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 18:29:26 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Electrical Solenoid Valve Actuation ? YES.
References: <d0b.179b13c7.340b49c1@aol.com><2F5546DD-7DF4-4A7F-982E-F8CF7B81FF4D@gmail.com>
	<005d01c7ee48$31020360$6401a8c0@homedesktop>
	<1ECD27A8AD1C4787A42118DD0813E9A9@LMS>
Message-ID: <010d01c7ee79$e3a0fae0$6401a8c0@homedesktop>

The company I work for has the contract for suppling the GM V6 lifters and 
all the hydraulic controls. We also supply the lifters for Chrysler but they 
are made in one of our plants in Germany. Both the GM and Chrysler lifters 
operate in a similar fashion but are of different design. The GM V8 lifters 
are made by someone else.
Bill

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
To: "Bill Bennett" <bennevl at bellsouth.net>
Cc: <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Electrical Solenoid Valve Actuation ? YES.


> Bill,  What is intresting ---as I understand it ther were two 
> suppliers---when one didn't win the Major GM contract---they went with 
> Chrysler---I think Gm uses both on different engs.
>      Sparky
> AA/_ L  2211 

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 17:52:49 2007
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 16:52:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!
Message-ID: <467211.89603.qm@web58009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Ducati has long been building and racing a series of "Desmo" valve bikes. As Rich stated, not all Ducati are Desmo yet all of the modern Ducati are so equipped. Also, all modern Ducati are two cylinders. 
I haven't seen a modern Ducati competing in much other than road racing where they have a considerable history of success. Besides the valve system, the trellis frame also makes the Ducati unique. Though not the first to use a trellis frame, they were one of the earliest to build a production trellis framed bike. 
Would love to try a modern water-cooled 4 valve per cylinder Ducati but I would be surprised if it could be a record beater. Though I prefer two cyclinder bikes and my everyday bike is a 97 Ducati Super sport, my opinion is that a twin isn't capable of beating the 4 cylinder Japanese bikes at LSR. 

For Ducati racing heritage;    
from http://www.ducatiDOTcom/heritage/anni50/storia.jhtml


"During 1958, Ducati also produced the  200 cc Elite. 1958 also marked the triumph of the desmodromic system, which engineer Taglioni had been developing since 1955. This project resulted in the famous twin-cylinder 250 cc of 1960, ordered from Ducati by the world famous English racer Mike Hailwood, who specifically requested a machine of superior performance."

Dale Krumheuer
Cleveland Oh

DougOdom <dlodom at charter.net> wrote: I believe the 300 SLR used desmodromic. It was a straight eight motor 
with the power take off in the middle, like 2 4's back to back. I don't 
think the 300 SL ever used that motor. Those were the cars in the mid 
50's that Sterling Moss and Juan  Fangio drove. This is from memory so if 
I'm wrong someone jump in and straighten me out.     Doug Odom in big ditch

Rich Fox wrote:

>I believe the 300SL race cars as well as street driven cars were 
>desmodromic. As well as lots of Ducuti motorcycles.   RF
>----- Original Message ----- 
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!
>
>
>  
>
>>In eight or nine years of being on our list here, I  cannot recall any
>>discussion of Desmodromic Valve Gear, as utilized at one  time by 
>>Mercedes-Benz on
>>some of their racing engines.  Were any ever  actually used in 
>>competition,
>>either pre-war or post-war ? 
>>    
>>
>


  
      I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the
  Intolerant, and kindness from the Unkind; yet strangely, I am
  ungrateful to these teachers."
  -Kahlil Gibran
  


        

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! 
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.


  
      I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the
  Intolerant, and kindness from the Unkind; yet strangely, I am
  ungrateful to these teachers."
  -Kahlil Gibran
  



       
---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. 

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 17:54:28 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 16:54:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Paper Headlights
In-Reply-To: <000501c7ecf2$eedba000$3574a943@dim8100>
Message-ID: <313604.74255.qm@web52501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

The 2007 rulebook states that headlights must be covered with some form of film that will keep all the small pieces together. This can be window safety film or even heavy packing tape.
   
  I would shy away from usinf NASCAR/NHRA type headlight decals unless specifically allowed in a class.
   
  DW

3 liter <saltfever at comcast.net> wrote:
  In the interest of safety, broken glass is not only a hazard to a driver but
posses a serious problem for course clean-up after an incident. It is quite
possible that residual glass pieces could be missed only to be run over by a
following contestant. FOD is always a serious concern on any course.



If there is absolutely NO aerodynamic advantage; can headlights be replaced
with paper replicas in classes where WORKING lights are required? For
example, Production class, Gas class, and others. If paper or plastic is
not legal, should the rules be changed in the interest of safety? -Elon
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
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Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 18:42:33 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 17:42:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
In-Reply-To: <002301c7ee65$d6e9c2a0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <695974.44736.qm@web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Recent experiences;
   
  At WoS a couple of years ago, Kelly & Hall lakester, 310 MPH, had a rear stablizer with a wing mounted on top. The wing had flaps that were controlled by the driver via electric motor. I guess the deal would be to start the run with max downforce then trim out the flaps down track , or vice versa. I do know that the motor burned up, may have been the airflow over the wing forcing the flaps down and killing the circuit.
   
  More recently, July 2006, the Honda F1 car had a stablizer with moveable rudder. This was a direct link to the steering but it could be adjusted down to decrease the angle of displacement. They finally ended up locking the rudder into place at 0 deg. of displacement.
   
  These examples are only the beginning of something that may be useful in LSR. Maybe not so useful?
   
  DW

Ed Weldon <23.weldon at comcast.net> wrote:
  The rule book allows this in modified roadsters subject to adherance to body
shape requirements. Probably similar in other classes I'm less familiar
with like competition coupes. You'll see variations on this theme in
several of the modified roadsters that are currently active. Seems to help
there. IMHO better approach than a drag adding wing to get down force. I'm
not so sure it would help in special construction classes where any rear
body contour is allowed.
With respect to spin control there may be some merit to the driver being
able to actively add downforce with a controlled change in aerodynamics like
when he/she feels the car getting a little loose at speed. I think most of
us seem to agree, however, that once a spin starts events happen too fast
for a driver intervene in any useful way.
This is a tricky area to get into and would have to be watched pretty
closely until we all learned more about it. Interesting to explore for
those whose resources are deep enough to include access to wind tunnel
testing.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joseph lance" 
To: "LSR" ; 
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...


> Instead of wings and flaps why not shape the belly pan or underside of the
> car to form a venturi and add downforce that way ?
> Lance
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
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From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Sep  3 19:08:32 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:08:32 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Marmons & Mormons>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <090420070108.19675.46DCB0100000D61800004CDB2206999735CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

The book is called "The Salt of the Earth" by Ab Jenkins and Wendell J, Ashton .  The edition I have was pubished by the Dixie College Foundation.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Jim
> There is a book(small) on Ab Jenkins. When I get a chance I will look up 
> where to buy it. Wester might know off the top of his head. It's good 
> reading. Like I said earlier Marv. lives just down the road from me as does 
> Rick Vesco. There are other LSR people in the area as well so this old 
> Calif. racer isn't bored.
> Glen

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon Sep  3 19:15:05 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 18:15:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Tires (no.1)
Message-ID: <000001c7ee91$07718fe0$3574a943@dim8100>

I guess an example gives a good visceral feel for the technique.  You find a
nail directly in the middle of your 200 MPH Goodyear. You take it into
Wendover and hand it to a high school kid with greasy hands in the tire
shop. He grabs a rubber plug in his slippery hands, smears some dried glue
on the plug, and stuffs it back into the tire. (a few of the frayed cords
are also pushed back in along with the plug). The kid puts 30 psi in the
tire for a leak check under water. It passes.



Drive 12 miles back to Lake Bonneville and put it on your car to qualify for
a Red Hat.  Don't forget to inflate to 70 PSI (the Goodyear recommended
pressure). Calmly drive 214 mph for your hat.  If the 70 psi didn't blow out
the plug, the imbalance (you forgot to re-balance after the plug) and
centrifugal force might.  You have no idea of the damage caused by the nail.
Did it cut cords, separate plies, start a fatigue separation due to
tred-squirm in the contact patch?  Continued in No.2  -Elon



Sun, 2 Sep 2007  From: "Benn" karhu at california.com

I've had at least several tires plugged, including a few i did myself
decades ago.  All of 'em wore out without the plug leaking...I think, like
lots of stuff, it's more important that you understand how the technique
should be done and when it can be used than a blanket prohibition.  OTOH,
mebbe I've just been lucky. Benn

From saltfever at comcast.net  Mon Sep  3 19:15:15 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 18:15:15 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Tires (no.2)
Message-ID: <000501c7ee91$0d07c4b0$3574a943@dim8100>

Without references, this information is anecdotal. My apologies since I
dont have the time to research the proper documents. I may do it in the
future.

Tire Plugs:

(1) Are illegal for commercial vehicles.

(2) Classified as temporary/emergency repair by the Calif. Highway patrol.

(3) Illegal in many States.

(4) Cancel the speed rating (V) speed) of OEM tires.

(5) Are not a recommended permanent repair by tire manufacturers.

(6) Are FAA illegal on all categories of aircraft.



A plug is a crude method, performed in uncontrolled conditions, by
unknowledgeable personnel, on a failed tire casing. Inspection is a
limited and crude visual by untrained personnel. People carry their most
precious cargo around on plugs everyday due to their naiveti and reliance
on professionals. However, there are sound technical reasons for all of
the above. Hopefully, you may believe there is possible merit in only one of
the above. However, Y M M V.  :-)   -Elon

From RACE427 at aol.com  Mon Sep  3 19:36:44 2007
From: RACE427 at aol.com (RACE427 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 21:36:44 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] tire plugs
Message-ID: <c54.18b0ead4.340e10ac@aol.com>

In all of my years in the auto trade I have never, ever trusted a repaired 
tire.   It could be a plug or a patch, the tire is never the same.  Oh, they 
will hold air but I never feel comfortable with that tire again.  You will find 
that they do lose air over a period of time.  How lucky do you feel taking a 
cross country trip with a repaired tire?   To go 200 mph plus !!   No way !!!

     Just a thought !!


**************************************
 Get a sneak peek 
of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Sep  3 19:39:07 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 18:39:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
References: <695974.44736.qm@web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c7ee94$64af9eb0$6400a8c0@Dale>

How about a front or rear wing linked to traction control by computer so it 
would increase traction when traction control called for it
dale
ssuunnyy and 100+ in pahrump


Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...


> Recent experiences;
>
>  At WoS a couple of years ago, Kelly & Hall lakester, 310 MPH, had a rear 
> stablizer with a wing mounted on top. The wing had flaps that were 
> controlled by the driver via electric motor. I guess the deal would be to 
> start the run with max downforce then trim out the flaps down track , or 
> vice versa. I do know that the motor burned up, may have been the airflow 
> over the wing forcing the flaps down and killing the circuit.
>
>  More recently, July 2006, the Honda F1 car had a stablizer with moveable 
> rudder. This was a direct link to the steering but it could be adjusted 
> down to decrease the angle of displacement. They finally ended up locking 
> the rudder into place at 0 deg. of displacement.
>
>  These examples are only the beginning of something that may be useful in 
> LSR. Maybe not so useful?
>
>  DW
>
> Ed Weldon <23.weldon at comcast.net> wrote:
>  The rule book allows this in modified roadsters subject to adherance to 
> body
> shape requirements. Probably similar in other classes I'm less familiar
> with like competition coupes. You'll see variations on this theme in
> several of the modified roadsters that are currently active. Seems to help
> there. IMHO better approach than a drag adding wing to get down force. I'm
> not so sure it would help in special construction classes where any rear
> body contour is allowed.
> With respect to spin control there may be some merit to the driver being
> able to actively add downforce with a controlled change in aerodynamics 
> like
> when he/she feels the car getting a little loose at speed. I think most of
> us seem to agree, however, that once a spin starts events happen too fast
> for a driver intervene in any useful way.
> This is a tricky area to get into and would have to be watched pretty
> closely until we all learned more about it. Interesting to explore for
> those whose resources are deep enough to include access to wind tunnel
> testing.
> Ed Weldon
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
>
>
>> Instead of wings and flaps why not shape the belly pan or underside of 
>> the
>> car to form a venturi and add downforce that way ?
>> Lance

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Mon Sep  3 20:34:52 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:34:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
References: <00c101c7eccf$30a3e020$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<20070902085517.vx9tkr51esc4k84k@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
Message-ID: <003701c7ee9c$2cc69870$6401a8c0@Rick>

The electric Fusion had more than 6% tire spin when it went 186 in the 
quarter.  Somewhere around 8% went 176 in the quarter, but 204 in the 5th 
with 207 exit.  This thing had lots of power.  The fuel cell stack made more 
power after being humidified after each pass.  (the 186 run was a turn out 
after the quarter because the computer system shut it down because of 
Overpower.  It made more power than they expected.

The car hooked a little in the 3 but basically spun the tires thru most of 
the 5 miles.  I see some things from the photos that show me some chassis 
changes that might help plant the rear tires.  I would love to come back 
with this car.  Some minor refinements and revisions.....who knows....

----- Original Message ----- 

> Wow, great question.
>
> How much ( % ) wheel slip in encountered at 200ish speeds?

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  3 20:57:42 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 02:57:42 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...and BOOKS
In-Reply-To: <008501c7ee5d$91c451c0$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <c48.187ce582.340dafb6@aol.com>
	<008501c7ee5d$91c451c0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W4D148590D26652C3DB2CDD9CA0@phx.gbl>

Glen  I'm very glad to hear you 'say' that...


All the best in your endeavor.


I want a signed copy an "Author proof"  LOL




  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one

     ------------------------------------- oooo
--------------------------------------

> From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> To: Flowbench at aol.com; drmayf at mayfco.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 13:06:43 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
>
> Flowbench
>
> It's coming, there is something in the works. It will take time but will be
> worth the wait.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Flowbench at aol.com>
> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
>
>
> > As recently as 1995 the Hoffman/Markley 'liner set the E/BFS record @ 248
> > mph with retractable wings, or canards (sp). Not sure I'd try to steer
> > with one, seems I remember Breedlove tried it on the Sprit back in '63.
Your
> > covering over  2 1/2 football fields a second at 300, when the Hammond
lakester
> > crashed @ 315  it was over almost before you knew it was happening.
> > Hey Glen, you and JD and a few others have so much history both in print
> > and memory, what are we going to do in the future? Are you trying to scan
it
> > and write it down? I know it a tremendous amount of work but I'd hate to
see
> > us lose  the historic resource you guys are. The past is important in LSR
as
> > I'm sure you  know.

_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx

From ed at vetteracing.com  Mon Sep  3 21:13:03 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:13:03 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Tires (no.2)
Message-ID: <W754371231217751188875583@webmail3>

I run the 90-mile Silver State Open Road Races in Nevada....... Plugged tires
in any speed class are illegal. Also, the date code onthe tire must be 3 years
or newer..... Just another venue'sinterpretation of tire safety.
Ed


>-----Original Message-----
>From: 3 liter [mailto:saltfever at comcast.net]
>Sent: Monday, September 3, 2007 06:15 PM
>To: ''land-speed submit''
>Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Tires (no.2)
>
>Without references, this information is anecdotal. My apologies since I
>don t have the time to research the proper documents. I may do it in the
>future.
>
>Tire Plugs:
>
>(1) Are illegal for commercial vehicles.
>
>(2) Classified as temporary/emergency repair by the Calif. Highway patrol.
>
>(3) Illegal in many States.
>
>(4) Cancel the speed rating ( V ) speed) of OEM tires.
>
>(5) Are not a recommended permanent repair by tire manufacturers.
>
>(6) Are FAA illegal on all categories of aircraft.
>
>
>
>A plug is a crude method, performed in uncontrolled conditions, by
>unknowledgeable personnel, on a failed tire casing. Inspection is a
>limited and crude visual by untrained personnel. People carry their most
>precious cargo around on plugs everyday due to their naiveti and reliance
>on professionals . However, there are sound technical reasons for all of
>the above. Hopefully, you may believe there is possible merit in only one of
>the above. However, Y M M V. :-) -Elon

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  3 21:18:08 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 03:18:08 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs  !!!!!
In-Reply-To: <467211.89603.qm@web58009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <467211.89603.qm@web58009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W1869491F9B979A92A4BE64D9CA0@phx.gbl>

Dale:

" I haven't seen a modern Ducati competing in much other than road racing... "


  See AMA Pro Flat Track racing..   -they run good !  cheers, "Dirt Track
Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
      and never more than a few feet from a cold one
  ------------------------------------------------------------
  Speedway Bikes, Harley D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
    Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,
      Aerial Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,

       -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they are


ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
c

> Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 16:52:49 -0700
> From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] ( Dear Jack ) & LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!
>
> Ducati has long been building and racing a series of "Desmo" valve bikes. As
Rich stated, not all Ducati are Desmo yet all of the modern Ducati are so
equipped. Also, all modern Ducati are two cylinders.
> I haven't seen a modern Ducati competing in much other than road racing
where they have a considerable history of success. Besides the valve system,
the trellis frame also makes the Ducati unique. Though not the first to use a
trellis frame, they were one of the earliest to build a production trellis
framed bike.
> Would love to try a modern water-cooled 4 valve per cylinder Ducati but I
would be surprised if it could be a record beater. Though I prefer two
cyclinder bikes and my everyday bike is a 97 Ducati Super sport, my opinion is
that a twin isn't capable of beating the 4 cylinder Japanese bikes at LSR.
>
> For Ducati racing heritage;
> from http://www.ducatiDOTcom/heritage/anni50/storia.jhtml

_________________________________________________________________
Explore the seven wonders of the world
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

From kturk at ala.net  Mon Sep  3 21:25:59 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:25:59 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Rocky is okay...
Message-ID: <02a401c7eea3$51924990$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

But Ack Attack wrecked at Bonneville on a back up run...  From what I can read
on Landracing.com he ran 290 on the first run and was trying to back it up and
lost control somewhere in the mile...

Man... I'm hating Hal-tech for holding up Jon Amo from being on the salt...
his updates at these events have always been a BIG part of following racing
out there...

Anyway if anyone else gets any up-dates from the Bub meet... Please pass them
on.

Keith

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Mon Sep  3 22:58:47 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 00:58:47 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction.....
Message-ID: <008c01c7eeb0$475b77a0$563c2544@john>

Rick
Was there instrumentation to measure aerodynamic lift ? What is the weight 
distribution ? Is it front wheel drive ?



> The electric Fusion had more than 6% tire spin when it went 186 in the
> quarter.  Somewhere around 8% went 176 in the quarter, but 204 in the 5th
> with 207 exit.  This thing had lots of power.  The fuel cell stack made 
> more
> power after being humidified after each pass.  (the 186 run was a turn out
> after the quarter because the computer system shut it down because of
> Overpower.  It made more power than they expected.
>
> The car hooked a little in the 3 but basically spun the tires thru most of
> the 5 miles.  I see some things from the photos that show me some chassis
> changes that might help plant the rear tires.  I would love to come back
> with this car.  Some minor refinements and revisions.....who knows....

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Sep  3 23:02:14 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 05:02:14 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] More Ab Jenkins and Mormon Meteor information
Message-ID: <090420070502.23810.46DCE6D60008A99000005D022200750744CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

A recently published larger format, paperback book by Gordon Eliot White on the Jenkins is "Ab and Marvin Jenkins: The Studebaket Connection and the Mormon Meteors".  It's better writing, a more comprehensive book than "Salt of the Earth" on the 1930's salt runs and the association with the Duesenberg brothers and other racing Ab did in the twenties.  I really appreciate his knowledge and have enjoyed all of his books.  Gordon held a Bonneville record in a sprint car within the last twenty years.  He is curator of the Smithsonian Racing collection and took four of us through the Smithsonian's Silver Hill warehouses to show us what isn't on dislay at the museum.  He was the Washington reporter for The Deseret News in the sixties and early seventies if memory serves.  See www,iconografix.com for information on other well researched books he has written.  Another book he wrote that was published by Motorbooks International is "Offenhauser: The Legendary Racing Engine and the Men Who B
uilt It".

Wes

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  3 23:39:22 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 05:39:22 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Gordon White
In-Reply-To: <090420070502.23810.46DCE6D60008A99000005D022200750744CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
References: <090420070502.23810.46DCE6D60008A99000005D022200750744CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W3DFA326E45C5523DB4FB1D9CA0@phx.gbl>

Wes & list ;    -and a gentleman he is too... a few years ago (1997 I think) I
helped him out as a last minute 'stooge' at Lime Rock Park in Connecticut when
he needed some assistance getting going,...  -out to race a gaggle of
teabaggers with his  Black & Red KK 110 Offy midget  -the same car he set the
record with on the salt back in  ( I think... ) 1988...  -when I first spoke
to him about his beautiful car.

 The sportscar race was a standing start,  and an Offy not havin' a clutch,..
he had to push off from the pits,..  and his only crew was his lady friend...
so I stepped up, introduced myself to refresh his memory of "who" I was,..
and helped him strap in and get his helmet on correctly wearing glasses...
Anyway he pushed off when they all took off from the grid, out the pit road he
went,  into the tailend of the pack of about 25 cars......and he finished a
close 2nd ...    to a red-hot race-prepped MGTD.

 Remember:   Gordon had just an in-and-out box,  and drove a car intended for
LEFT turns only.   And Lime Rock is crawling with right hand turns.   It was a
blast to watch.  He dam near whupped'em all.

 The following year (I believe) he had to bail out at about 35mph onto the
grass near the end of the long main stretch after the Offy coughed a rod out
the side and caught the car on fire...
 Yupper,   Gordon White is a RACER   too boys...  cheers to ya,   "Dirt Track
Doug"   in So. New York,
            -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,
Cold Beer, Fast Cars, an' Warm Willin'
Wimin'-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------

> From: wester6935 at comcast.net
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 05:02:14 +0000
> Subject: [Land-speed] More Ab Jenkins and Mormon Meteor information
>
> A recently published larger format, paperback book by Gordon Eliot White on
the Jenkins is "Ab and Marvin Jenkins: The Studebaket Connection and the
Mormon Meteors".  It's better writing, a more comprehensive book than "Salt of
the Earth" on the 1930's salt runs and the association with the Duesenberg
brothers and other racing Ab did in the twenties.  I really appreciate his
knowledge and have enjoyed all of his books.  Gordon held a Bonneville record
in a sprint car within the last twenty years.

He is curator of the Smithsonian Racing collection and took four of us through
the Smithsonian's Silver Hill warehouses to show us what isn't on dislay at
the museum.  He was the Washington reporter for The Deseret News in the
sixties and early seventies if memory serves.  See www,iconografix.com for
information on other well researched books he has written.  Another book he
wrote that was published by Motorbooks International is "Offenhauser: The
Legendary Racing Engine and the Men who built It".

> Wes

_________________________________________________________________
Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger 
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wl
mailtagline

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Sep  4 06:16:58 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 05:16:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Deseret Morning News | Electric-car driver sets sights
 on 136 mph
Message-ID: <000501c7eeed$7d962440$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://deseretnews.com:80/article/1,5143,695206731,00.html

another car for world of speed
dale
dark and 90 in pahrump

From jon at infodestruction.com  Tue Sep  4 07:21:44 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:21:44 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] tire plugs
In-Reply-To: <c54.18b0ead4.340e10ac@aol.com>
References: <c54.18b0ead4.340e10ac@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CB0983F0-C54E-46CE-8D63-B0458F733253@infodestruction.com>

On Sep 3, 2007, at 9:36 PM, RACE427 at aol.com wrote:

In all of my years in the auto trade I have never, ever trusted a  
repaired
tire.   It could be a plug or a patch, the tire is never the same.   
Oh, they
will hold air but I never feel comfortable with that tire again.  You  
will find
that they do lose air over a period of time.  How lucky do you feel  
taking a
cross country trip with a repaired tire?   To go 200 mph plus !!   No  
way !!!

      Just a thought !!





Once upon a time I bought new tires for my Gold Wing.  A day or two  
-- just one or two days! - later I managed to get a nail through the  
rear tire.  Dang!  So I had the almost-virgin tire plugged rather  
than trashing a brand-new $XXX tire.

A year later, after riding the bike sometimes solo, sometimes with a  
passenger, at least 8,000 miles across country and up and back to  
Fairbanks, Alaska, without having to add air (other than to  
compensate for what escaped when I'd check air pressure) I replaced  
the tire with a new one.

Plugs in tires:  Your results may vary.  I don't recommend plugging  
tires to others -- but this (and other) experience has shown me that  
plugs can be safely used.  I wouldn't have a tire plugged under ALL  
circumstances -- but I won't shy away from the process without good  
reason.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From john.szalay at att.net  Tue Sep  4 07:37:04 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:37:04 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Cell phone for radio?
Message-ID: <090420071337.5348.46DD5F8000017458000014E42160376223970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

Right:  http://sprint.com/nextel  for push to Talk cell feature info.

Now. a long rant!

As for Cell and radio on the salt, we have yet to have a problem on
the salt. We have AT&T cell, and had no trouble using it anywhere we 
went on the salt. even out at 7 miles.  and when we volunteered with
USFRA and used the FM radios they worked good, no matter where
we were ( and we went everywhere at WOS)
CB , we had no problem. both on our car, on Jon's (Seldom Seen Slim)
truck or at the USFRA timing RV.  or the timing slip tent.
But then,  I have a good antenna on the car for CB, and have an external
Cell antenna on the car, for good coverage now matter where we are.

a good antenna and the right radio make things 
IIRC: the radios we used at WOS were on the 464 MHZ freq
>From personal experience over the years , the 154 MHZ leave a
little to be desired as for range. the 460 MHZ radios seem to work 
great. the new 800 trunked radios leave MUCH to desired and this
is the same band that cell phones work, so an external antenna
helps, its a shame that most cell phones are not made to make use
of them. (ours (Nokia) does). 

Thats my opinion,
Your mileage may vary..

-------------- Original message from Bryan Savage <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>: -------------- 


> 
> The salt in not friendly to radio transmission to or from cars 
> moving fast (150+) on the salt. Most notable failure was GM and 
> their telemetry. CB radios have the same problem. I don't know 
> about commercial FM radios or cell phones but I'd like to see 
> someone test them. 
> 
> Jon Bishop wrote: 
> > On Sep 2, 2007, at 7:43 AM, John Szalay wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> >> Verizon wireless (cellphone) has that feature. 
> >> its what they call Push to Talk or Walkie -Talkie . 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> http://support.vzw.com/features/data_services/push_to_talk.html 
> >> 
> > Sprint/Nextel built their business (Nextel) on the PTT (push to talk) 
> > feature. It also works when cell reception is spotty. 
> > 
> > ~Jon 

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Sep  4 08:25:14 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 08:25:14 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
In-Reply-To: <003701c7ee9c$2cc69870$6401a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1663E@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Thanks Rick!

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Rick Byrnes
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 8:35 PM
To: adin at frontier.net; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...

The electric Fusion had more than 6% tire spin when it went 186 in the
quarter.  Somewhere around 8% went 176 in the quarter, but 204 in the
5th
with 207 exit.  This thing had lots of power.  The fuel cell stack made
more
power after being humidified after each pass.  (the 186 run was a turn
out
after the quarter because the computer system shut it down because of
Overpower.  It made more power than they expected.

The car hooked a little in the 3 but basically spun the tires thru most
of
the 5 miles.  I see some things from the photos that show me some
chassis
changes that might help plant the rear tires.  I would love to come back

with this car.  Some minor refinements and revisions.....who knows....

----- Original Message -----

> Wow, great question.
>
> How much ( % ) wheel slip in encountered at 200ish speeds?
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Sep  4 08:43:41 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 07:43:41 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Deseret Morning News | Electric-car driver sets
 sights on 136 mph
Message-ID: <4782983.1188917022024.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I love those "I'm gonna" articles. Most of the time it jinxs the attempt. Personally I like "I did" ones...............

>Subject: [Land-speed] Deseret Morning News | Electric-car driver sets sights on 136 mph

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Tue Sep  4 08:49:03 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 07:49:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] tire plugs
In-Reply-To: <CB0983F0-C54E-46CE-8D63-B0458F733253@infodestruction.com>
References: <c54.18b0ead4.340e10ac@aol.com>
	<CB0983F0-C54E-46CE-8D63-B0458F733253@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <46DD705F.6080405@wildblue.net>

A friend and one of our pit crew was a Traffic Collision Reconstructionist
for the San Jose PD. He said the first thing he looked for when a tire had
failed (he only worked fatal collisions)was a plug. They were usually the
cause.

A family member by marriage was a tire dealer in Southern Cal. He scared me
away from them in the late '60's. The, then new design, bias belted tires
were "destroyed" by plugs, he said. He went into a real rant.

I've had tubeless tires patched years ago. Steel belts seem to have
eliminated flat tires for me. I have to pull crap (including a 3"X <" 
lag bolt)
from the Bridgestones on my '71 F250 - haul it to the dump express, but 
it never
looses air. (wish my savings account worked that well).

Bryan

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Tue Sep  4 08:51:26 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 07:51:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Cell phone for radio?
In-Reply-To: <090420071337.5348.46DD5F8000017458000014E42160376223970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
References: <090420071337.5348.46DD5F8000017458000014E42160376223970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
Message-ID: <46DD70EE.8010909@wildblue.net>

Like I said, try it at 200 MPH.
Bryan



John Szalay wrote:
> Right:  http://sprint.com/nextel  for push to Talk cell feature info.
>
> Now. a long rant!
>
> As for Cell and radio on the salt, we have yet to have a problem on
> the salt. We have AT&T cell, and had no trouble using it anywhere we 
> went on the salt. even out at 7 miles.  and when we volunteered with
> USFRA and used the FM radios they worked good, no matter where
> we were ( and we went everywhere at WOS)
> CB , we had no problem. both on our car, on Jon's (Seldom Seen Slim)
> truck or at the USFRA timing RV.  or the timing slip tent.
> But then,  I have a good antenna on the car for CB, and have an external
> Cell antenna on the car, for good coverage now matter where we are.
>
> a good antenna and the right radio make things 
> IIRC: the radios we used at WOS were on the 464 MHZ freq
> >From personal experience over the years , the 154 MHZ leave a
> little to be desired as for range. the 460 MHZ radios seem to work 
> great. the new 800 trunked radios leave MUCH to desired and this
> is the same band that cell phones work, so an external antenna
> helps, its a shame that most cell phones are not made to make use
> of them. (ours (Nokia) does). 
>
> Thats my opinion,
> Your mileage may vary..

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Tue Sep  4 09:01:58 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:01:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
In-Reply-To: <003701c7ee9c$2cc69870$6401a8c0@Rick>
References: <00c101c7eccf$30a3e020$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<20070902085517.vx9tkr51esc4k84k@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
	<003701c7ee9c$2cc69870$6401a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <46DD7366.8010908@wildblue.net>

Anything under 10% made me happy. We were at 6% at WOS once.
Our normal was 8-10%

Bryan



Rick Byrnes wrote:
> The electric Fusion had more than 6% tire spin when it went 186 in the 
> quarter.  Somewhere around 8% went 176 in the quarter, but 204 in the 5th 
> with 207 exit.  This thing had lots of power.  The fuel cell stack made more 
> power after being humidified after each pass.  (the 186 run was a turn out 
> after the quarter because the computer system shut it down because of 
> Overpower.  It made more power than they expected.
>
> The car hooked a little in the 3 but basically spun the tires thru most of 
> the 5 miles.  I see some things from the photos that show me some chassis 
> changes that might help plant the rear tires.  I would love to come back 
> with this car.  Some minor refinements and revisions.....who knows....

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep  4 09:05:54 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:05:54 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Cell phone for radio?
Message-ID: <090420071505.16166.46DD74520002E43600003F262213528573CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

USFRA ran meets on CB radio for years but as conditions change, so does CB radio communication.  For years, just minor trucker problems, then we hit a year when course watchers had to do a double relay of messages from the 4 1/2 to the start.  That's when we switched to the FM radios for more reliable, uninterrupted communications for offficials about safety and track needs.  Gary Wilkinson has tried everything to give us the most reliable communications possible.  His untiring efforts really have paid off for us.  Doesn't mean the salt gremlins won't jump up and bite us in the future.  A chunk of the entry fees go for radio rentals every year.  As technology changes it becomes more obvious that renting is better than owning for our once a year use.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
> Right:  http://sprint.com/nextel  for push to Talk cell feature info.
> 
> Now. a long rant!
> 
> As for Cell and radio on the salt, we have yet to have a problem on
> the salt. We have AT&T cell, and had no trouble using it anywhere we 
> went on the salt. even out at 7 miles.  and when we volunteered with
> USFRA and used the FM radios they worked good, no matter where
> we were ( and we went everywhere at WOS)
> CB , we had no problem. both on our car, on Jon's (Seldom Seen Slim)
> truck or at the USFRA timing RV.  or the timing slip tent.
> But then,  I have a good antenna on the car for CB, and have an external
> Cell antenna on the car, for good coverage now matter where we are.
> 
> a good antenna and the right radio make things 
> IIRC: the radios we used at WOS were on the 464 MHZ freq
> >From personal experience over the years , the 154 MHZ leave a
> little to be desired as for range. the 460 MHZ radios seem to work 
> great. the new 800 trunked radios leave MUCH to desired and this
> is the same band that cell phones work, so an external antenna
> helps, its a shame that most cell phones are not made to make use
> of them. (ours (Nokia) does). 
> 
> Thats my opinion,
> Your mileage may vary..

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Sep  4 09:10:47 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:10:47 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
In-Reply-To: <46DD7366.8010908@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16640@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

10% seems huge!  (obviously) This means 20 mph on a 220 run?

My guess is this varies w/ salt conditions.  Anyone know if the slip %
changes  w/ speed?  How would we know what causes the slip? Aero drag,
too much hp (always  funny, eh?)

David, a curious big dummy

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Bryan Savage
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 9:02 AM
To: Rick Byrnes
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...

Anything under 10% made me happy. We were at 6% at WOS once.
Our normal was 8-10%

Bryan



Rick Byrnes wrote:
> The electric Fusion had more than 6% tire spin when it went 186 in the

> quarter.  Somewhere around 8% went 176 in the quarter, but 204 in the
5th
> with 207 exit.  This thing had lots of power.  The fuel cell stack
made more
> power after being humidified after each pass.  (the 186 run was a turn
out
> after the quarter because the computer system shut it down because of
> Overpower.  It made more power than they expected.
>
> The car hooked a little in the 3 but basically spun the tires thru
most of
> the 5 miles.  I see some things from the photos that show me some
chassis
> changes that might help plant the rear tires.  I would love to come
back
> with this car.  Some minor refinements and revisions.....who knows....
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com  Tue Sep  4 09:15:34 2007
From: Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com (Clay, Dale)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 08:15:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Aero Surfaces...
In-Reply-To: <cff.15494dca.340dbc5c@aol.com>
References: <cff.15494dca.340dbc5c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA13E@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>

Now THAT is good news!

Dale C.

speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

It's  coming, there is something in the works. It will take time but
will be
worth the wait.



Woo Hoo....
Thanks for EVERYTHING all you volunteers do.



The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient or employees of MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited.   If
you received this in error, pleasecontact the sender by email and delete the
material from any computer.

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 09:24:02 2007
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 08:24:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] tire plugs What about Fix a Flat ?
In-Reply-To: <46DD705F.6080405@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <336695.16007.qm@web58006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I know that we have all used Fix a flat before, the aerosol foam tire sealer. Admittedly, I've used it to fix a slow leak and promptly forgot about having the tire serviced. Not that I would use fix a flat for a serious tire problem but what about that irritating slow leaking tire? 

Bryan Savage <b.a.savage at wildblue.net> wrote: A friend and one of our pit crew was a Traffic Collision Reconstructionist
for the San Jose PD. He said the first thing he looked for when a tire had
failed (he only worked fatal collisions)was a plug. They were usually the
cause.

A family member by marriage was a tire dealer in Southern Cal. He scared me
away from them in the late '60's. The, then new design, bias belted tires
were "destroyed" by plugs, he said. He went into a real rant.

I've had tubeless tires patched years ago. Steel belts seem to have
eliminated flat tires for me. I have to pull crap (including a 3"X <" 
lag bolt)
from the Bridgestones on my '71 F250 - haul it to the dump express, but 
it never
looses air. (wish my savings account worked that well).

Bryan
_______________________________________________
dmirror3 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



  
      I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the
  Intolerant, and kindness from the Unkind; yet strangely, I am
  ungrateful to these teachers."
  -Kahlil Gibran
  



       
---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! 
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  4 09:26:06 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:26:06 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!   Ducati's
In-Reply-To: <95867.59628.qm@web58013.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <BAY135-W1869491F9B979A92A4BE64D9CA0@phx.gbl>
	<95867.59628.qm@web58013.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W12826FED123635DCB1276AD9CA0@phx.gbl>

Oh man  now youre askin' for it.I'm old and dumb, and it was 3 whole years
ago...Naw I cain't remember...  -sorry

but it was fast though and sounded really cool  -like an XR750      'only
different'

 and finished in the top 5 at Syracuse, 2005   ( I THINK)



BTW:  by AMA rules the pro series bikes are  all  750cc....  cheers, "Dirt
Track Doug" in So. New York,

cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007   From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: LOOK MA: NO Valve Springs !!!!!
To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com

Outstanding Doug! I had no idea that anyone was flat tracking a Ducati.

I havent been able to find a Ducati on the AMA Flatrack website, do you recall
the names of Ducati teams ?


ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

Doug Anderson <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com> wrote:     Dale:  " I haven't seen
a modern Ducati competing in much other than road racing... "


  See AMA Pro Flat Track racing..   -they run good !  cheers, "Dirt Track
Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
      and never more than a few feet from a cold one
  ------------------------------------------------------------
  Speedway Bikes, Harley D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
    Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,
      Aerial Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,

       -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they
 are




_________________________________________________________________
Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces.
It's easy!
http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m
kt=en-us

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Sep  4 09:27:35 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:27:35 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] tire plugs What about Fix a Flat ?
In-Reply-To: <336695.16007.qm@web58006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16642@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Tire slime?  (that green stuff)

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Dale Krumheuer
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 9:24 AM
To: Bryan Savage; Jon Wennerberg
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net; RACE427 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] tire plugs What about Fix a Flat ?

I know that we have all used Fix a flat before, the aerosol foam tire
sealer. Admittedly, I've used it to fix a slow leak and promptly forgot
about having the tire serviced. Not that I would use fix a flat for a
serious tire problem but what about that irritating slow leaking tire?

Bryan Savage <b.a.savage at wildblue.net> wrote: A friend and one of our
pit crew was a Traffic Collision Reconstructionist
for the San Jose PD. He said the first thing he looked for when a tire
had
failed (he only worked fatal collisions)was a plug. They were usually
the
cause.

A family member by marriage was a tire dealer in Southern Cal. He scared
me
away from them in the late '60's. The, then new design, bias belted
tires
were "destroyed" by plugs, he said. He went into a real rant.

I've had tubeless tires patched years ago. Steel belts seem to have
eliminated flat tires for me. I have to pull crap (including a 3"X <"
lag bolt)
from the Bridgestones on my '71 F250 - haul it to the dump express, but
it never
looses air. (wish my savings account worked that well).

Bryan
_______________________________________________
dmirror3 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed




      I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the
  Intolerant, and kindness from the Unkind; yet strangely, I am
  ungrateful to these teachers."
  -Kahlil Gibran





---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
Games.
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Sep  4 09:54:55 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 08:54:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Deseret Morning News | Electric-car driver sets
 sights on 136 mph
References: <4782983.1188917022024.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c7ef0b$f00533e0$6400a8c0@Dale>

if you don't try you don't did
dale
on way to Vegas , hot in pahrump
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Deseret Morning News | Electric-car driver sets 
sights on 136 mph


>I love those "I'm gonna" articles. Most of the time it jinxs the attempt. 
>Personally I like "I did" ones...............
>
>>Subject: [Land-speed] Deseret Morning News | Electric-car driver sets 
>>sights on 136 mph

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 10:07:02 2007
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:07:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] tire plugs What about Fix a Flat ?
In-Reply-To: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16642@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <582192.81038.qm@web58007.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Haven't tried the green stuff, I heard that the green stuff is basically anti freeze. The Fix a Flat is the emergency roadside stuff, that can inflate your tire and uhhh fix a flat. 

"Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org> wrote: Tire slime?  (that green stuff)

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Dale Krumheuer
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 9:24 AM
To: Bryan Savage; Jon Wennerberg
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net; RACE427 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] tire plugs What about Fix a Flat ?

I know that we have all used Fix a flat before, the aerosol foam tire
sealer. Admittedly, I've used it to fix a slow leak and promptly forgot
about having the tire serviced. Not that I would use fix a flat for a
serious tire problem but what about that irritating slow leaking tire? 

Bryan Savage  wrote: A friend and one of our
pit crew was a Traffic Collision Reconstructionist
for the San Jose PD. He said the first thing he looked for when a tire
had
failed (he only worked fatal collisions)was a plug. They were usually
the
cause.

A family member by marriage was a tire dealer in Southern Cal. He scared
me
away from them in the late '60's. The, then new design, bias belted
tires
were "destroyed" by plugs, he said. He went into a real rant.

I've had tubeless tires patched years ago. Steel belts seem to have
eliminated flat tires for me. I have to pull crap (including a 3"X <" 
lag bolt)
from the Bridgestones on my '71 F250 - haul it to the dump express, but 
it never
looses air. (wish my savings account worked that well).

Bryan
_______________________________________________


       
---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Tue Sep  4 10:08:20 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:08:20 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] HP/DRAG/Traction...
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16640@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <004e01c7ef0d$d3168430$6401a8c0@Rick>

To address all questions, then Glenys and I are off to the airport for the 
first leg of a Hawaii vacation and destination of a dear friends daughter.

AERO
The Fusion spent a number of hours in the wind tunnel, and while I don't 
have the specific data available to me now. (no longer employed) the car was 
very neutral at a drag cooef of .213  I think there was a couple hundred 
pounds of lift on both ends at lower drag numbers, but we had set ups to 
increase downforce, but of course increasing drag.  There was insufficient 
time to do all those things at SpeedWeek.  I have been working at the 
management guys that could cause this car to return to the salt.  Only time 
will tell.
Interestingly enough my old Merkur which was ~.28 Cd (no actual data) spun 
the tires in a similar way with 545 lbs ft on reasonable salt.

Also we made the fast run at around 4PM on course 1 which was reported to be 
noticeably less tractable than #2
The differences I saw in the 1/4 mile times between two different runs that 
the car would have run much faster thru the 5 mile with just a little better 
traction.

The curves of tire slip appeared to be pretty much the same at speeds above 
100 MPH.  We ended up using 3rd+4th gear with 5th late in the 4th mile. 
because we had more power and dont know if the power curve had change when 
the fuel cell stacks were so happy and making really good power, the car may 
have gone faster if I had left it in 4th gear.  The driveline in the Fusion 
was configured to provide a power curve similar to an IC engine.  Shifting 
was normal.  Shift light was set at 7500 motor rpm but the motor will run to 
10K rpm.  There is so much that could be optomized, now that the little 
first time gremlins have been chased away.

More when I get home from Hawaii

Rick

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Sep  4 12:09:27 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:09:27 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Steve Fosset missing
Message-ID: <00b901c7ef1e$bb98a930$6401a8c0@Glens>

----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Barrett
To: land-speed-digest at autox.team.net
Cc: Jonathan Amo
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:04 PM
Subject: Steve Fosset missing


Just hear on the news that Steve Fosset is missing after taking off in a small
plane last night in Nevada. More as it comes through.

Glen

From jimwebb at nutsracing.com  Tue Sep  4 17:22:25 2007
From: jimwebb at nutsracing.com (Jim Webb)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 18:22:25 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
Message-ID: <20070904232310.E70941879EF@autox.team.net>

Although the news is not final, this doesn't sound good. Fosset is a
remarkable man with many achievements and many near-achievements, but this
news has not sounded good all day. I am really hoping for a good outcome. It
just shows that you can undertake the most darting (yet well supported)
efforts and come out OK, just to have the little stuff bite you in the butt.

 

Jim Webb

Choc Full o' Nuts

A/PP B/PP ?/FL

 

 

 

Jim Webb

Choc Full o' Nuts

A/PP B/PP ?/FL

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Tue Sep  4 19:08:42 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 18:08:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] tire plugs What about Fix a Flat ?
In-Reply-To: <582192.81038.qm@web58007.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <582192.81038.qm@web58007.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B4984BC1-C16C-483C-BB02-8A75A98ECC16@gmail.com>

On Sep 4, 2007, at 9:07 AM, Dale Krumheuer wrote:

> Haven't tried the green stuff, I heard that the green stuff is  
> basically anti freeze. The Fix a Flat is the emergency roadside  
> stuff, that can inflate your tire and uhhh fix a flat.
>

I've never used slime in any of my cars or trucks, but I swear by the  
stuff in my tractors and bicycles! I live in the Sierras and like  
trail riding, so I pick up quite a few thorns in my tires, and all I  
have to do is pull them out, you see a quick dot of green come  
through the hole, and it's sealed, just that fast. At home I have  
issues with nails and occasional glass (the people I got the place  
from used to bury trash in the '80s) same thing, spot of green and  
it's sealed. But those are both semi low speed applications (I rarely  
get over 35 on my bike, that's with a good tailwind, downhill,  
probably never hit 20 on the tractors.)

~Jon

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep  4 20:35:53 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 02:35:53 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
Message-ID: <090520070235.8174.46DE16090009D6C800001FEE2205889116CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

One news broadcasst indicated he was looking for a playa to run on with 
the old Breedlove car.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Jim Webb" <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>
> Although the news is not final, this doesn't sound good. Fosset is a
> remarkable man with many achievements and many near-achievements, but this
> news has not sounded good all day. I am really hoping for a good outcome. It
> just shows that you can undertake the most darting (yet well supported)
> efforts and come out OK, just to have the little stuff bite you in the butt.
> 
>  
> 
> Jim Webb
> 
> Choc Full o' Nuts
> 
> A/PP B/PP ?/FL
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Jim Webb
> 
> Choc Full o' Nuts
> 
> A/PP B/PP ?/FL
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Sep  4 21:11:45 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 20:11:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] tire plugs What about Fix a Flat ?
References: <582192.81038.qm@web58007.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002401c7ef6a$845233a0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

If it were not for slim the horse trailer with the rebar would not have been 
able to perform at speed week.
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] tire plugs What about Fix a Flat ?


> Haven't tried the green stuff, I heard that the green stuff is basically 
> anti freeze. The Fix a Flat is the emergency roadside stuff, that can 
> inflate your tire and uhhh fix a flat.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep  4 22:00:05 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 04:00:05 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] What about Fix a Flat ?
Message-ID: <090520070400.26676.46DE29C500049711000068342200735834CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Any garage hates to deal with a tire with any of the Fix-A-Flat type
repairs.  I was in the gas station around the corner when a neighbor 
brought in a wheelbarrow tire with a slow leak he had tried to repair.  
They got it off the rim on one side and sent him to Harbor Freight to 
acquire a new one rather than trying to fix it with all the goo inside.
Said it would cost him more in time charges than the new tire and
rim from Harbor.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
> If it were not for slim the horse trailer with the rebar would not have been 
> able to perform at speed week.
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] tire plugs What about Fix a Flat ?
> 
> 
> > Haven't tried the green stuff, I heard that the green stuff is basically 
> > anti freeze. The Fix a Flat is the emergency roadside stuff, that can 
> > inflate your tire and uhhh fix a flat.
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Sep  5 06:07:15 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 05:07:15 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 2007 Bonneville Speed Trials Preview -
	MotorcycleUSA.com
Message-ID: <000501c7efb5$4cb7ee30$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com:80/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=5224&PageID=1


bub preview
dale
working on 57 chev hot and getting hotter in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Sep  5 06:09:05 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 05:09:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Payson Roundup: Payson team sets land-speed record
 at Bonneville Salt Flats
Message-ID: <000501c7efb5$8e7f60a0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.paysonroundup.com/section/frontpage_lead/story/30344

record setter at speed week, he did it
dale
dark and looking for models on internet in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Sep  5 06:12:00 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 05:12:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] San Jose Mercury News - Fossett's latest adventure was
 attempt to break land speed record
Message-ID: <000501c7efb5$f69509b0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_6801441?nclick_check=1


Steve Fossett , history , I hope they find him and he is ok
dale

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Sep  5 06:14:41 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 05:14:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] AMSOIL Promotions Update: Four Records and Going for
	More
Message-ID: <000501c7efb6$56909230$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://amsoilupdate.blogspot.com:80/2007/09/four-records-and-going-for-more.h
tml

sept 4 bub meet stop by high winds
dale

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  5 06:56:02 2007
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 08:56:02 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] San Jose Mercury News - Fossett's latest adventure
 was attempt to break land speed record
In-Reply-To: <000501c7efb5$f69509b0$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7efb5$f69509b0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <45ac72e90709050556s4410aa74g4b65eaf0a19786d7@mail.gmail.com>

I'm very curious about record attempts at other than sanctioned sites.
Who does the timing, tech, and all the other things associated with a
record run? Who pays for it? Is this an option open to all or only the
"super" teams?

Bob Denton

On 9/5/07, Dale H Pulju <d.pulju at pahrump.com> wrote:
> http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_6801441?nclick_check=1
>
>
> Steve Fossett , history , I hope they find him and he is ok
> dale
> _______________________________________________

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Sep  5 08:16:16 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 08:16:16 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] BUB MEET
Message-ID: <003c01c7efc7$536e5ae0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Some rain on the salt last night, they are running on the short course at
present and hoping they can get some runs in on the long course. I was on the
phone with the Rices(Chronologic Timing) for this update. If I hear later I
will update.
Glen

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Sep  5 08:45:23 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 08:45:23 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] San Jose Mercury News - Fossett's latest adventure
 was attempt to break land speed record
References: <000501c7efb5$f69509b0$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<45ac72e90709050556s4410aa74g4b65eaf0a19786d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003f01c7efcb$647b7300$6401a8c0@Glens>

It's the racers obligation for all costs, contracts, permits, course prep. 
etc. for a private meet. For a sanctioned meet it's share the costs by those 
who want a special meet. It ain't cheap.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert J. Denton" <rjdenton479 at gmail.com>
To: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] San Jose Mercury News - Fossett's latest adventure 
was attempt to break land speed record


> I'm very curious about record attempts at other than sanctioned sites.
> Who does the timing, tech, and all the other things associated with a
> record run? Who pays for it? Is this an option open to all or only the
> "super" teams?
>
> Bob Denton
>
> On 9/5/07, Dale H Pulju <d.pulju at pahrump.com> wrote:
>> http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_6801441?nclick_check=1
>>
>>
>> Steve Fossett , history , I hope they find him and he is ok
>> dale
>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jon at infodestruction.com  Wed Sep  5 09:05:24 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:05:24 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] BUB MEET
In-Reply-To: <003c01c7efc7$536e5ae0$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <003c01c7efc7$536e5ae0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <0227C338-BC29-42AB-84DE-4BED2AA82B66@infodestruction.com>

On Sep 5, 2007, at 10:16 AM, Glen Barrett wrote:

Some rain on the salt last night, they are running on the short  
course at
present and hoping they can get some runs in on the long course. I  
was on the
phone with the Rices(Chronologic Timing) for this update. If I hear  
later I
will update.
Glen




Thanks for the news, Glen.  Nancy and I plan to leave for the Salt  
for WoS on Friday morning -- that's less than two days from right now  
-- and we're watching the weather carefully to see if we'll need to  
change plans.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Sep  5 11:29:46 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 10:29:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steel garages
Message-ID: <002301c7efe2$5fa93300$6501a8c0@S>

I'm looking for a lead to a seller of small steel shed/garage type buildings.
I need something fairly highy quality to store my street rod in.  120 sf to
get in under building permit requirements and steel for protection against
possible brush fires in my particular location.
This fellow shows up every year at Turlock, CA swap meets and I also saw him
at the Goodguys August event in Pleasenton, CA this year with his trailer
mounted sample building.  Any of you West Coast guys have his contact info?
Ed Weldon

From rbuck at xmission.com  Wed Sep  5 12:01:26 2007
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:01:26 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Who's planning on WoS?
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070905114411.036fd060@xmission.com>

I got a call this morning from an out-of-state friend who asked if I 
knew who was planning to race at World of Speed.  I drew a blank in 
my mind (normal state) and couldn't give him any info.  He was 
particularly interested to know if any "high speed streamliner" (his 
verbiage) teams had any plans for that event.

I'd appreciate any info I could pass on to him....thanks,

Ray the Rat
(planning to be there if the creek don't rise...)

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Sep  5 12:11:02 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 11:11:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steel garages
In-Reply-To: <002301c7efe2$5fa93300$6501a8c0@S>
References: <002301c7efe2$5fa93300$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <20070905181129.BE031187A10@autox.team.net>

Ed,
If you are going to WOS, you might want to talk to my sponsor, Indaco 
Metals, Joe Inda is the Pres. and he will be at WOS. 
www.indacometals.com. Tell them that I said to contact them.
Skip



At 10:29 AM 9/5/2007, you wrote:
>I'm looking for a lead to a seller of small steel shed/garage type buildings.
>I need something fairly highy quality to store my street rod in.  120 sf to
>get in under building permit requirements and steel for protection against
>possible brush fires in my particular location.
>This fellow shows up every year at Turlock, CA swap meets and I also saw him
>at the Goodguys August event in Pleasenton, CA this year with his trailer
>mounted sample building.  Any of you West Coast guys have his contact info?
>Ed Weldon

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Sep  5 12:12:48 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 12:12:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Who's planning on WoS?
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20070905114411.036fd060@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <007c01c7efe8$5e409390$6401a8c0@Glens>

Ray
As usual it depends on the weather and courses available at that time. The 
conditions change almost daily this time of year. BUB is trying to get 
through their meet and USFRA is next. I am not trying to be negative but 
after all the years I have been going to the salt we get what we get.

Two weeks before speedweek we had three course, we were lucky to end up with 
two fair courses and got thru the event. We can only hope for the best.


Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Buck" <rbuck at xmission.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:01 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Who's planning on WoS?


>I got a call this morning from an out-of-state friend who asked if I
> knew who was planning to race at World of Speed.  I drew a blank in
> my mind (normal state) and couldn't give him any info.  He was
> particularly interested to know if any "high speed streamliner" (his
> verbiage) teams had any plans for that event.
>
> I'd appreciate any info I could pass on to him....thanks,
>
> Ray the Rat
> (planning to be there if the creek don't rise...)

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Sep  5 18:39:30 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 17:39:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] landracing.com
Message-ID: <005d01c7f01e$65ac1510$6501a8c0@S>

Anybody able to help me get back on Landracing.com?  I was once registered;
but can't remember my password.  Their website isn't helping me with that. And
it won't ;et me reregister cause it remembers my name and I reall don't want
to change it.  Some little glitch, I suppose. Is Jon Amo listening here?  He
still watching the store over there?
Ed Weldon

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Sep  5 19:07:31 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 19:07:31 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] landracing.com
References: <005d01c7f01e$65ac1510$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <00cb01c7f022$4d86e970$6401a8c0@Glens>

Ed
 I had to un-install it and re-install it when I had that problem when he 
changed to the new format.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 6:39 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] landracing.com


> Anybody able to help me get back on Landracing.com?  I was once 
> registered;
> but can't remember my password.  Their website isn't helping me with that. 
> And
> it won't ;et me reregister cause it remembers my name and I reall don't 
> want
> to change it.  Some little glitch, I suppose. Is Jon Amo listening here? 
> He
> still watching the store over there?
> Ed Weldon
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From webmaster at landracing.com  Wed Sep  5 19:54:18 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 19:54:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] landracing.com
In-Reply-To: <005d01c7f01e$65ac1510$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEAEEGDGAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

You shouldnt have to uninstall anything.. Maybe the best place to start
would be email the webmaster to help you at webmaster at landracing.com to get
you a new password or use the password retrieval tool. Sometime that wont
work if you have changed email addresses.

jon

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Ed Weldon
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 6:40 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] landracing.com


Anybody able to help me get back on Landracing.com?  I was once registered;
but can't remember my password.  Their website isn't helping me with that.
And
it won't ;et me reregister cause it remembers my name and I reall don't want
to change it.  Some little glitch, I suppose. Is Jon Amo listening here?  He
still watching the store over there?
Ed Weldon

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Sep  5 22:41:16 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:41:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
References: <20070904232310.E70941879EF@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <008201c7f040$2d221510$6501a8c0@S>

Anybody know where the searchers are doing their search?  I've been
following the news and the last I heard they had narrowed it down to a 600
sq. mile area and somewhere south/southeast toward Bishop. Also what's the
most economical cruising speed for a Citabria?  I read that it has about a 4
hour fuel supply.
I have this bad feeling they are looking in the wrong place for him.  There
are several remote dry lakes in a sector 30 to 90 degrees (Norhyteast to
Eaast) from Smith Valley and out towards Battle Mountain/Eureka 100-170
miles.  Several of these map on Google Earth with 7-8 miles of possible
surface for possible racing.  Doesn't look like anything anywhere near that
size to the southeast of Smith Valley.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Webb" <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>
To: "'landspeed at autox.team.net'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing


> Although the news is not final, this doesn't sound good. Fosset is a
> remarkable man with many achievements and many near-achievements, but this
> news has not sounded good all day. I am really hoping for a good outcome.
It
> just shows that you can undertake the most darting (yet well supported)
> efforts and come out OK, just to have the little stuff bite you in the
butt.
>
>
>
> Jim Webb
>
> Choc Full o' Nuts
>
> A/PP B/PP ?/FL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Webb
>
> Choc Full o' Nuts
>
> A/PP B/PP ?/FL
> _______________________________________________
> 23.weldon at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Sep  5 22:44:16 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:44:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Steve Fosset Missing
Message-ID: <008701c7f040$95ccd230$6501a8c0@S>

FWD to list with edits
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>; "'landspeed at autox.team.net'"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing


> Anybody know where the searchers are doing their search?  I've been
> following the news and the last I heard they had narrowed it down to a 600
> sq. mile area and somewhere south/southeast toward Bishop. Also what's the
> most economical cruising speed for a Citabria?  I read that it has about a
4
> hour fuel supply.
> I have this bad feeling they are looking in the wrong place for him.
There
> are several remote dry lakes in a sector 30 to 90 degrees (Norhyteast to
> Eaast) from Smith Valley and out towards Battle Mountain/Eureka 100-170
> miles.  Several of these map on Google Earth with 7-8 miles of possible
> surface for possible racing.  Doesn't look like anything anywhere near
that
> size to the southeast of Smith Valley.
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim Webb" <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>
> To: "'landspeed at autox.team.net'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
> > Although the news is not final, this doesn't sound good. Fosset is a
> > remarkable man with many achievements and many near-achievements, but
this
> > news has not sounded good all day. I am really hoping for a good
outcome.
> It
> > just shows that you can undertake the most darting (yet well supported)
> > efforts and come out OK, just to have the little stuff bite you in the
> butt.

From ed at vetteracing.com  Wed Sep  5 22:56:29 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 04:56:29 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
Message-ID: <W5441921657101731189054589@webmail15>

Ed,
I have the same feeling. I think they should be looking up in theBlack Rock
area. But, I talked to a guy tonite that saidFossett told a friend the general
are he was going to, so.... We'llsee. Hope he makes it........
Ed V



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ed Weldon [mailto:23.weldon at comcast.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 09:41 PM
>To: jimwebb at nutsracing.com, 'landspeed at autox.team.net'
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
>
>Anybody know where the searchers are doing their search? I've been
>following the news and the last I heard they had narrowed it down to a 600
>sq. mile area and somewhere south/southeast toward Bishop. Also what's the
>most economical cruising speed for a Citabria? I read that it has about a 4
>hour fuel supply.
>I have this bad feeling they are looking in the wrong place for him. There
>are several remote dry lakes in a sector 30 to 90 degrees (Norhyteast to
>Eaast) from Smith Valley and out towards Battle Mountain/Eureka 100-170
>miles. Several of these map on Google Earth with 7-8 miles of possible
>surface for possible racing. Doesn't look like anything anywhere near that
>size to the southeast of Smith Valley.
>Ed Weldon
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Webb" <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>
>To: "'landspeed at autox.team.net'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 4:22 PM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
>
>
>> Although the news is not final, this doesn't sound good. Fosset is a
>> remarkable man with many achievements and many near-achievements, but this
>> news has not sounded good all day. I am really hoping for a good outcome.
>It
>> just shows that you can undertake the most darting (yet well supported)
>> efforts and come out OK, just to have the little stuff bite you in the
>butt.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Webb
>>
>> Choc Full o' Nuts
>>
>> A/PP B/PP ?/FL

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Sep  5 23:05:19 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:05:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Steve Fosset Missing
References: <008701c7f040$95ccd230$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <009201c7f043$fba86260$6501a8c0@S>

Per Blackanthem.Com (Military News) an Air National Guard spokesman stated
the following:
"The area we are looking in is about 600 square miles," wrote Air Force
Capt. April Conway, the Nevada National Guard public affairs officer, via
e-mail from the aircraft. "We are searching from about 75 miles west of
Yerington to about 100 miles east of Yerington and south into Mammoth,
Calif."
Looking at that sector on Google Earth I see nothing longer than 6 miles or
so.  This length would be worthless to Steve.  Surely he would know that.
I have a bad feeling about this.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:44 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Steve Fosset Missing


> FWD to list with edits
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
> To: <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>; "'landspeed at autox.team.net'"
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
>
>
> > Anybody know where the searchers are doing their search?  I've been
> > following the news and the last I heard they had narrowed it down to a
600
> > sq. mile area and somewhere south/southeast toward Bishop. Also what's
the
> > most economical cruising speed for a Citabria?  I read that it has about
a
> 4
> > hour fuel supply.
> > I have this bad feeling they are looking in the wrong place for him.
> There
> > are several remote dry lakes in a sector 30 to 90 degrees (Norhyteast to
> > Eaast) from Smith Valley and out towards Battle Mountain/Eureka 100-170
> > miles.  Several of these map on Google Earth with 7-8 miles of possible
> > surface for possible racing.  Doesn't look like anything anywhere near
> that
> > size to the southeast of Smith Valley.
> > Ed Weldon
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Jim Webb" <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>
> > To: "'landspeed at autox.team.net'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 4:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
> > > Although the news is not final, this doesn't sound good. Fosset is a
> > > remarkable man with many achievements and many near-achievements, but
> this
> > > news has not sounded good all day. I am really hoping for a good
> outcome.
> > It
> > > just shows that you can undertake the most darting (yet well
supported)
> > > efforts and come out OK, just to have the little stuff bite you in the
> > butt.
> _______________________________________________
> 23.weldon at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Sep  5 23:20:18 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:20:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
References: <W5441921657101731189054589@webmail15>
Message-ID: <009901c7f045$a400e440$6501a8c0@S>

Ed -- Sure.  On Google Earth I can see the Black Rock area stretches out about
100 miles from Northeast to Southwast.  Lots of surface there to look at.
Midway from there to Winnemuca there are a couple of dry lakes that measure in
the 6-7 mile range.  But that's about all.
I gottta believe Steve did his homework on this before he left.  There's an
airport at Winnemuca about 80 or so miles east so he could have lingered a
long time over Black Rock before dropping in there to refuel.
Ed
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ed Van Scoy
  To: Ed Weldon ; jimwebb at nutsracing.com ; 'landspeed at autox.team.net'
  Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing


  Ed,
  I have the same feeling.  I think they should be looking up in the Black
Rock area.  But, I talked to a guy tonite that  said Fossett told a friend the
general are he was going to, so.... We'll see. Hope he makes it........
  Ed V

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep  6 06:19:10 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 05:19:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
References: <W5441921657101731189054589@webmail15>
	<009901c7f045$a400e440$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <001001c7f080$21577b90$6400a8c0@Dale>

There are three dry lakes just to the east of Cedarville, NV in the nw 
corner of the state that I have driven by several times and always looked at 
as a place to race lsr.
dale
dark and waiting for the sun to rise, only 75 in pahrump

To: "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com>; <
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing


> Ed -- Sure.  On Google Earth I can see the Black Rock area stretches out 
> about
> 100 miles from Northeast to Southwast.  Lots of surface there to look at.
> Midway from there to Winnemuca there are a couple of dry lakes that 
> measure in
> the 6-7 mile range.  But that's about all.
> I gottta believe Steve did his homework on this before he left.  There's 
> an
> airport at Winnemuca about 80 or so miles east so he could have lingered a
> long time over Black Rock before dropping in there to refuel.
> Ed
>  To: Ed Weldon ; jimwebb at nutsracing.com ; 'landspeed at autox.team.net'
>
>  Ed,
>  I have the same feeling.  I think they should be looking up in the Black
> Rock area.  But, I talked to a guy tonite that  said Fossett told a friend 
> the
> general are he was going to, so.... We'll see. Hope he makes it........
>  Ed V

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  6 06:25:58 2007
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:25:58 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
In-Reply-To: <001001c7f080$21577b90$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <W5441921657101731189054589@webmail15>
	<009901c7f045$a400e440$6501a8c0@S>
	<001001c7f080$21577b90$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <45ac72e90709060525v704841cxcb62f957840f0710@mail.gmail.com>

Why don't you guys who really know the area from an LSR point of view
reach out and contact the civil air patrol or the Air Guard or
whomever you can talk to. You guys should have a better grasp on what
he would have been looking for.

Bob D.

On 9/6/07, Dale H Pulju <d.pulju at pahrump.com> wrote:
> There are three dry lakes just to the east of Cedarville, NV in the nw
> corner of the state that I have driven by several times and always looked at
> as a place to race lsr.
> dale
> dark and waiting for the sun to rise, only 75 in pahrump
>
> To: "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com>; <
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
>
>
> > Ed -- Sure.  On Google Earth I can see the Black Rock area stretches out
> > about
> > 100 miles from Northeast to Southwast.  Lots of surface there to look at.
> > Midway from there to Winnemuca there are a couple of dry lakes that
> > measure in
> > the 6-7 mile range.  But that's about all.
> > I gottta believe Steve did his homework on this before he left.  There's
> > an
> > airport at Winnemuca about 80 or so miles east so he could have lingered a
> > long time over Black Rock before dropping in there to refuel.
> > Ed
> >  To: Ed Weldon ; jimwebb at nutsracing.com ; 'landspeed at autox.team.net'
> >
> >  Ed,
> >  I have the same feeling.  I think they should be looking up in the Black
> > Rock area.  But, I talked to a guy tonite that  said Fossett told a friend
> > the
> > general are he was going to, so.... We'll see. Hope he makes it........
> >  Ed V

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Sep  6 06:32:49 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 05:32:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
References: <W5441921657101731189054589@webmail15>
	<009901c7f045$a400e440$6501a8c0@S>
	<001001c7f080$21577b90$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <001501c7f082$0eceff50$6501a8c0@S>

Dale-- From Google Earth there looks like there maybe a good 10-12 miles on
the both the North and Middle lake if the surface is good.  Hard to tell
what they are, mud like El Mirage or thin akalai, by the colors in the
satellite photos.  I've never been up there.
Good time of day in the desert.  Where I live isn't considered a desert; but
this month it sure feels like one.
Ed W

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com>;
<jimwebb at nutsracing.com>; "'landspeed at autox.team.net'"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing


> There are three dry lakes just to the east of Cedarville, NV in the nw
> corner of the state that I have driven by several times and always looked
at
> as a place to race lsr.
> dale
> dark and waiting for the sun to rise, only 75 in pahrump

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Sep  6 06:39:12 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 05:39:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
References: <W5441921657101731189054589@webmail15>
	<009901c7f045$a400e440$6501a8c0@S>
	<001001c7f080$21577b90$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<45ac72e90709060525v704841cxcb62f957840f0710@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c7f082$f0e458e0$6501a8c0@S>

Bob-- I wish I knew who to contact.  I don't ever get close to that world.
The psychics seem to know how to get their fingers into that "game".  I
tried to put a bug in Glen's ear figuring he'd be the one they'd listen to.
My guess is that unless you've got an inside contact you'll never get
through the haze of publicity surrounding this story as big as it's gotten.
I can't claim any real expertise here.  Just that I got interested in it.
Ed
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert J. Denton" <rjdenton479 at gmail.com>
To: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>
Cc: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com>;
<jimwebb at nutsracing.com>; "landspeed at autox.team.net"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing


> Why don't you guys who really know the area from an LSR point of view
> reach out and contact the civil air patrol or the Air Guard or
> whomever you can talk to. You guys should have a better grasp on what
> he would have been looking for.
>
> Bob D.

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep  6 06:43:36 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 05:43:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
References: <W5441921657101731189054589@webmail15>
	<009901c7f045$a400e440$6501a8c0@S>
	<001001c7f080$21577b90$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<45ac72e90709060525v704841cxcb62f957840f0710@mail.gmail.com>
	<001a01c7f082$f0e458e0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <001f01c7f083$8b33ac70$6400a8c0@Dale>

I just got off the CAP, NV site and could not figure out a way to email, 
them, you have to be a CAP member to do any emailing in there system?
dale
still waiting for the sun to shine in pahrump


To: "Robert J. Denton" <rjdenton479 at gmail.com>; "Dale H Pulju" 
<d.pulju at pahrump.com>
Cc: "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com>; <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>; 
"landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing


> Bob-- I wish I knew who to contact.  I don't ever get close to that world.
> The psychics seem to know how to get their fingers into that "game".  I
> tried to put a bug in Glen's ear figuring he'd be the one they'd listen 
> to.
> My guess is that unless you've got an inside contact you'll never get
> through the haze of publicity surrounding this story as big as it's 
> gotten.
> I can't claim any real expertise here.  Just that I got interested in it.
> Ed

> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
>
>
>> Why don't you guys who really know the area from an LSR point of view
>> reach out and contact the civil air patrol or the Air Guard or
>> whomever you can talk to. You guys should have a better grasp on what
>> he would have been looking for.
>>
>> Bob D.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Sep  6 06:53:02 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 05:53:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
References: <W5441921657101731189054589@webmail15>
	<009901c7f045$a400e440$6501a8c0@S>
	<001001c7f080$21577b90$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<45ac72e90709060525v704841cxcb62f957840f0710@mail.gmail.com>
	<001a01c7f082$f0e458e0$6501a8c0@S>
	<001f01c7f083$8b33ac70$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <002701c7f084$df9b6180$6501a8c0@S>

Dale-- Yeah....That's the barrier you run into everywhere.  The only hope is
that some insider who'll be listened to knows something about landspeed
racing.  If he's out there sitting next to the plane with it's nose sunk in
the mud he's running out of time.  But I don't think that's likely.
Sadly.......
Ed W
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "Robert J. Denton"
<rjdenton479 at gmail.com>
Cc: "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com>; <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>;
"landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing


> I just got off the CAP, NV site and could not figure out a way to email,
> them, you have to be a CAP member to do any emailing in there system?
> dale
> still waiting for the sun to shine in pahrump

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  6 07:04:55 2007
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:04:55 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
In-Reply-To: <002701c7f084$df9b6180$6501a8c0@S>
References: <W5441921657101731189054589@webmail15>
	<009901c7f045$a400e440$6501a8c0@S>
	<001001c7f080$21577b90$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<45ac72e90709060525v704841cxcb62f957840f0710@mail.gmail.com>
	<001a01c7f082$f0e458e0$6501a8c0@S>
	<001f01c7f083$8b33ac70$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<002701c7f084$df9b6180$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <45ac72e90709060604g6aa50290l1f5474a62ab6d66a@mail.gmail.com>

Here guys.

shawnbrewer at nvwg.cap.gov Nevada Wing of the CAP.

On 9/6/07, Ed Weldon <23.weldon at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Dale-- Yeah....That's the barrier you run into everywhere.  The only hope
> is
> that some insider who'll be listened to knows something about landspeed
> racing.  If he's out there sitting next to the plane with it's nose sunk
> in
> the mud he's running out of time.  But I don't think that's likely.
> Sadly.......
> Ed W
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>
> To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "Robert J. Denton"
> <rjdenton479 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com>; <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>;
> "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
>
>
> > I just got off the CAP, NV site and could not figure out a way to email,
> > them, you have to be a CAP member to do any emailing in there system?
> > dale
> > still waiting for the sun to shine in pahrump
> _______________________________________________
> foxriverkid at earthlink.net

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep  6 07:53:14 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 06:53:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] RGJ.com: Fossett chronology
Message-ID: <000501c7f08d$45809c60$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://news.rgj.com:80/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070905/NEWS15/709050412/1
016/NEWS

better info for me
dale
its only 65 in pahrump and sun is up

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep  6 07:56:03 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 06:56:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fossett may have faced tricky winds | Chron.com -
 Houston Chronicle
Message-ID: <000501c7f08d$aa1ab340$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5111788.html

more about the winds
dale
in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep  6 07:59:29 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 06:59:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Markertek Land Speed Record Team 2007: First Report
 From the Salt
Message-ID: <000501c7f08e$252b3780$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://lsr2007.blogspot.com:80/2007/09/first-report-from-salt.html

these guys are tryoing
dale
pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep  6 08:02:31 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 07:02:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Katrina Quixote - Chris Rose - Times-Picayune -
	NOLA.com
Message-ID: <000501c7f08e$918c1ed0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://blog.nola.com:80/chrisrose/2007/09/katrina_quixote.html

a car from new Orleans flood to compete in sept 12 meet Bonneville
dale
pahrump

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Sep  6 08:09:38 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 10:09:38 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Katrina Quixote - Chris Rose - Times-Picayune
 -NOLA.com
In-Reply-To: <000501c7f08e$918c1ed0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <009b01c7f08f$900d78a0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Can you use a different forum for these threads??? I get endless
interupts and e-mails on something that has nothing to do with LSR.. I
feel bad for Mr. Fossett but if I had some interest in reading about it
would same goes for a flooded car.. Sorry but don't care.. There seem to
be 3 or 4 people posting on this between themselves.. So how about
adding the non-lsr in the subject line so my email might be able to send
it straight to the trash bin rather than me.. Whatever happened to that
courtesy?? Or take it off list??
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Dale H Pulju
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:03 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Katrina Quixote - Chris Rose - Times-Picayune
-NOLA.com


http://blog.nola.com:80/chrisrose/2007/09/katrina_quixote.html

a car from new Orleans flood to compete in sept 12 meet Bonneville dale
pahrump

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: 9/4/2007
10:36 PM

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Thu Sep  6 08:35:32 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 07:35:32 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
Message-ID: <29882377.1189089333367.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The SCTA unofficially went to one of these lake to try out a few cars and found them to be unacceptable. They grooved to easily after a run.

>There are three dry lakes just to the east of Cedarville, NV in the nw 
>corner of the state that I have driven by several times and always looked at 
>as a place to race lsr.

From kturk at ala.net  Thu Sep  6 08:41:38 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:41:38 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Content/LSR/Interests
References: <009b01c7f08f$900d78a0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <03f701c7f094$09c46380$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

The guy is a land speed racer... and he's lost... ... and this Katrina guy 
is ole Blue hair... yep he's a racer too... and the article was great...

If it's off topic Dave's right... we should try and include ( non LSR ) in 
the subject line.

Keith 

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Sep  6 08:58:47 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 10:58:47 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Content/LSR/Interests
In-Reply-To: <03f701c7f094$09c46380$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <00a401c7f096$6e3339c0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Seriously... A guy not smart enough to file a flight plan with anyone
even as much as a note in the hanger.. Sigh.. When I used to go sailing
by myself always made sure someone knew where I was going and when I
intended to return.. Kind of basic common sense
The weather blog in New Orleans????
Anyone want to hear about the bad meal I got the other day??
Dave

Subject: Content/LSR/Interests


The guy is a land speed racer... and he's lost... ... and this Katrina
guy
is ole Blue hair... yep he's a racer too... and the article was great...

If it's off topic Dave's right... we should try and include ( non LSR )
in
the subject line.

Keith

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: 9/4/2007
10:36 PM

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Sep  6 09:52:55 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:52:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Content/LSR/Interests
In-Reply-To: <00a401c7f096$6e3339c0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
References: <00a401c7f096$6e3339c0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <46E02257.2050006@mayfco.com>

ddahlgren at snet.net wrote:

big snip..

>Anyone want to hear about the bad meal I got the other day??
>Dave
>
>  
>

Heck yeah, Dave...especially if it was at the truck stop or at one of 
the wendover hotels or at least at a burger joint somewhere around 
wendover...

ya just have to do what I do... hit delete when the subject line 
contains something you are not interest in.  And welcome home, lol...

mayf

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Thu Sep  6 10:13:46 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:13:46 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Content/LSR/Interests
Message-ID: <19459142.1189095226753.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Not sure he's a LSR racer yet. But Dave does have a point. If I want to know about him I'll look it up. I like LSR car stories but personally don't care where it came from. Good price tho. Non-LSR would be good on the subject line but how about every please deleting all the attachment and address junk and disclamers at the end...Thanks..

Dave was the meal from the Red Garter?

If it's off topic Dave's right... we should try and include ( non LSR ) in 
>the subject line.
>
>Keith 

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Sep  6 11:02:32 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:02:32 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non LSR- 1932 Chevy engine parts?
Message-ID: <46E032A8.3020607@charter.net>

I'm working on an 1932 Chevy 194ci six. Anyone have any information on 
this motor? Looks a lot like the 216 to me. Has a rod knock sound and 
I'm going to pull the pan today. I know it uses the sling dipper for the 
rods and the oil level was good.     Doug Odom in big ditch

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Sep  6 11:48:36 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 10:48:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Content/LSR/Interests
References: <00a401c7f096$6e3339c0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
	<46E02257.2050006@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <003901c7f0ae$2c8f8f10$6501a8c0@S>

OK..

Was this a thread about a "Land Speed Racer" or wasn't it.  What's a land
speed racer?  Somebody please tell me so I can be properly guided before I
disturb other land speed racers in the future.



Here's a man putting a serious effort into prepping a car to go 800 mph.
(not 200, 300, 400 or??)

He's already made an official application to use a dry lake in the USA for
his timed runs.

He goes missing on a potentially life threatening trip to further plan for
his test runs.



Oh, but wait a minute..this guy has money and fame.  Arguably the money
bought a big piece of the opportunity to gain that fame.  A lot of us are
just a bit jealous and a few actually are inclined to scorn his
accomplishments.  His car won't be racing where "we" race because it doesn't
fit in with the way "we" operate.  (And I personally have no argument with
that).  Is he really a landspeed racer and does his story fit in a forum for
land speed racers and is it any of their concern?



An interested party, not necessarily a landspeed racer because he has not
yet driven his own car in a timed event, (Ed Weldon) watches the developing
story and thinks all the searchers are missing something and looking in the
wrong place.  Wondering if other knowledgeable folks of similar interests
agree and possibly have contacts through which to contribute these thoughts
he goes on the landspeed digest forum to drum up interest and exchange
ideas.  Was this the right thing to do?  Was the rapid fire exchange of
emails an impolite intrusion into the activities of others on the list who
were not interested in getting involved in the remote possibility of saving
a life with vital information?  Is Weldon overdoing the hubris thing?



If there was an earthquake in Pahrump and a lot of workshops were wrecked,
if Pork Pie got lost at LAX, if Bonneville Bill got lost in the Nebraska
Sand Hills, if Dave Dahlgren disappeared in the Everglades or Ed Weldon
drove off the end of a dirt road trying to find his way to the Salt Flats
would any of that be about Land Speed racing?  Someone tell me, please..



rant finished...Ed Weldon
(thanks, Mayf, for the lead in)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Content/LSR/Interests
> ya just have to do what I do... hit delete when the subject line
> contains something you are not interest in.  And welcome home, lol...
> mayf

From john.szalay at att.net  Thu Sep  6 12:02:31 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:02:31 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
Message-ID: <090620071802.27817.46E040B6000DE00900006CA92160281302970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

-------------- Original message from "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>: -------------- 


> Ed -- Sure. On Google Earth I can see the Black Rock area stretches out about 
> 100 miles from Northeast to Southwast. Lots of surface there to look at. 
> 
I'm sure that if he had gone to Black Rock, someone should have seen something.
the Burning Man art festival ended on Sept 3rd, there are probably
still folks camping out and/or cleaning up the site.

From turbovortec6 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 12:55:41 2007
From: turbovortec6 at yahoo.com (Randy Will)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:55:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Content/LSR/Interests
In-Reply-To: <03f701c7f094$09c46380$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <287784.75217.qm@web32104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks Keith
            Randy

Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net> wrote:
  The guy is a land speed racer... and he's lost... ... and this Katrina guy 
is ole Blue hair... yep he's a racer too... and the article was great...

If it's off topic Dave's right... we should try and include ( non LSR ) in 
the subject line.

Keith 
_______________________________________________
turbovortec6 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Randy
No Class Racing
U/DT 4331
       
---------------------------------
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Sep  6 13:08:43 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:08:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
References: <090620071802.27817.46E040B6000DE00900006CA92160281302970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
Message-ID: <007a01c7f0b9$5b87f040$6501a8c0@S>

You've got something there.  I know at Bonneville whenever someone flies
close overhead there are a lot of eyes looking at them that can tell you
exactly what kind of plane they are flying.  Maybe fewer eyes after Burning
Man than at Speedweek; but still a possibility.  And the painted markings on
Steve's Citabria apparently are pretty distinctive.
Ed
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Szalay" <john.szalay at att.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
> > Ed -- Sure. On Google Earth I can see the Black Rock area stretches out
about
> > 100 miles from Northeast to Southwast. Lots of surface there to look at.
> I'm sure that if he had gone to Black Rock, someone should have seen
something.
> the Burning Man art festival ended on Sept 3rd, there are probably
> still folks camping out and/or cleaning up the site.

From john.szalay at att.net  Thu Sep  6 13:16:28 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:16:28 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NON _LSR Steve Fosset Missing
Message-ID: <090620071916.21242.46E0520B000D666B000052FA2161243646970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

-------------- Original message from "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>: -------------- 


> You've got something there. I know at Bonneville whenever someone flies   close overhead there are a lot of eyes looking at them that can tell you  exactly what kind of plane they are flying. Maybe fewer eyes after Burning  Man than at Speedweek; but still a possibility. And the painted markings on  Steve's Citabria apparently are pretty distinctive. 
> Ed 
> 

New report on the hunt less than an hour ago, sez that the route to Black rock is now included in the expanded search area.

From jon at infodestruction.com  Thu Sep  6 15:02:42 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:02:42 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Leaving for WoS
Message-ID: <0077D42C-9CA9-4A71-AA52-739004462DFB@infodestruction.com>

Nancy and I are leaving for World of Speed first thing tomorrow  
(Friday, 7 Sept) morning.  We won't even stop to check the computer.   
As of right now I have seen nothing to tell me that the event has  
been postponed/cancelled, and hope springs eternal that it won't be.   
In case it is -- and since we won't be near a computer on our three- 
day ride -- we'd appreciate a call to let us know the bad news.   
We'll be in my truck, with cellphone 906 361 6282 riding along.   
Thanks in advance.  In case of duplicate calls, the first one will  
receive the grand prize, which will be a photo of my tattoos.  The  
SECOND call gets the photo of Nancy's tattoos. . .

If the event is cancelled we've got contingency plans to keep going  
to some destination and do some vacationing/camping -- so we won't be  
boo-hoo-ing from central Montana (or wherever) when the dreaded calls  
start arriving.

See you on the Salt!

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

PS  We're not taking our race bikes -- just the pit bike and our  
leathers in case some thoughtful soul offers us a ride...

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep  6 16:32:47 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 15:32:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NetXNews - Wolverine emblazed El Camino to break world
 record - again
Message-ID: <000501c7f0d5$da13cee0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.netxnews.net/vnews/display.v/ART/2007/09/05/46df14c9e27ff

subject line says it all.
this is about people and schools building Bonneville cars
they already did it once
dale
resting in house in pahrump must be 90 outside

From rbuck at xmission.com  Thu Sep  6 17:06:04 2007
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:06:04 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NetXNews - Wolverine emblazed El Camino to break
 world record - again
In-Reply-To: <000501c7f0d5$da13cee0$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7f0d5$da13cee0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070906170435.03726d70@xmission.com>

Here's a link to a picture of the El Camino in the staging lane last 
year at WoS:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/bsf2006/wos/060913/060913_054r8_jpg.html

Ray the Rat


At 04:32 PM 09/06/2007, you wrote:
>http://www.netxnews.net/vnews/display.v/ART/2007/09/05/46df14c9e27ff
>
>subject line says it all.
>this is about people and schools building Bonneville cars
>they already did it once
>dale
>resting in house in pahrump must be 90 outside

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Sep  6 17:06:46 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:06:46 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NetXNews - Wolverine emblazed El Camino to break
 world record - again
Message-ID: <090620072306.13614.46E08806000D3AAF0000352E2200737478CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Todd will go a lot fater when he gets the nose of that El Camino a foot 
lower.

The automotive building at UVSC ws donated by Dick and JoAnn Losee.
They are old friends and hot rodders I've known for over fifty years.  
Their son Richard is the one who wrecked his Ferarri Monza last year in 
the Utah Fast Pass. The month before there was an article in Road and 
Track where he shows the speedometer at over 200 on a previous run.  
This year his dad loaned him  a car from his stable for the event.  A 15 
HP 1958 Fiat.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>
> http://www.netxnews.net/vnews/display.v/ART/2007/09/05/46df14c9e27ff
> 
> subject line says it all.
> this is about people and schools building Bonneville cars
> they already did it once
> dale
> resting in house in pahrump must be 90 outside

From mactem at mebtel.net  Thu Sep  6 20:22:20 2007
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:22:20 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed]  Leaving for WoS
Message-ID: <015a01c7f0f5$eb437970$0200a8c0@brightstar>

Jon and Nancy, I hope you have a wonderful trip.  See you in Maxton in a
few weeks!
David

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 08:00:47 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 07:00:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
In-Reply-To: <090620071802.27817.46E040B6000DE00900006CA92160281302970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
Message-ID: <823505.27821.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

"and/or cleaning up the site."
   
  That is not a part of their agenda.
   
  DW

John Szalay <john.szalay at att.net> wrote:
  -------------- Original message from "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>: -------------- 


> Ed -- Sure. On Google Earth I can see the Black Rock area stretches out about 
> 100 miles from Northeast to Southwast. Lots of surface there to look at. 
> 
I'm sure that if he had gone to Black Rock, someone should have seen something.
the Burning Man art festival ended on Sept 3rd, there are probably
still folks camping out and/or cleaning up the site.
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

From karhu at california.com  Fri Sep  7 10:39:00 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 09:39:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
References: <823505.27821.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c7f16d$9836b580$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

Based on accounts from several "burners" I've known, a tremendous effort
is put into cleaning up the site by the Burning Man people.  Now, the
stuff that blows away to who-knows-where--well, that probably isn't
retrieved any better than the stuff I see stuck in the hills around
B'ville after blowing off the salt.
Benn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
To: "John Szalay" <john.szalay at att.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing


> "and/or cleaning up the site."
>
>   That is not a part of their agenda.
>
>   DW
>
> John Szalay <john.szalay at att.net> wrote:
>   -------------- Original message from "Ed Weldon"
<23.weldon at comcast.net>: -------------- 
>
>
> > Ed -- Sure. On Google Earth I can see the Black Rock area stretches
out about
> > 100 miles from Northeast to Southwast. Lots of surface there to look
at.
> >
> I'm sure that if he had gone to Black Rock, someone should have seen
something.
> the Burning Man art festival ended on Sept 3rd, there are probably
> still folks camping out and/or cleaning up the site.
> _______________________________________________
> dwarner230 at yahoo.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>
>
>
> Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Got a little couch potato?
> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
> _______________________________________________
> karhu at california.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Sep  7 14:08:34 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:08:34 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
Message-ID: <090720072008.29485.46E1AFC20003ADD90000732D2207300793CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

The "Burning Man" crowd is extremely "green" and this year they put
a special emphasis on it from the print reports.

For many years Wendover has had a sanitary landfill just off the 
dirt road that continues from the bend in the road.  There's a lot
of stuff that blows over from there.  I think Tooele County has
clamped down on that but I don't see them hauling their trash
to the Tooele City dump.

The winds over the salt are from the west the majority of the time.
Not a lot gets into the hills west of the courses from those.  If
you check out the mining company's canal at about mile marker
14 where they taske the brine off to their ponds on the south 
side of the railroad you will see a lot of what blows off the salt 
... I've seen blue barrels, cones, plastic bags and that kind of 
stuff then you realize just how strong some of those winds 
actually are.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Benn" <karhu at california.com>
> Based on accounts from several "burners" I've known, a tremendous effort
> is put into cleaning up the site by the Burning Man people.  Now, the
> stuff that blows away to who-knows-where--well, that probably isn't
> retrieved any better than the stuff I see stuck in the hills around
> B'ville after blowing off the salt.
> Benn

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Sep  7 14:43:40 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 13:43:40 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Maintenance
Message-ID: <29674744.1189197821163.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Since my car is waiting for a few parts (I'm getting ready to go to World Finals) I thought I would look at the brake rebuild I did just before I went to Speed Week. Turned all 4 drums, serviced the bearings, and put on new seals...What could go wrong?

I washed out everything when I got back but wanted to look again. To my surprise all the drums were very rusty from going through the water at the end of the road twice. 2 hours of flapper wheeling brought them back to looking good again. Just 3 weeks from the end of Speed Week; I'm glad I didn't just load up and go. The rust would have destroyed the lining.

So if you haven't had a look I would do it before you think about that run to El Mirage or Maxton...............Good Luck 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Sep  7 15:47:39 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:47:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Maintenance
References: <29674744.1189197821163.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <011801c7f198$b6c279f0$6401a8c0@Glens>

JD, I brought this up right after speed week, The salt works fast as most of 
the old timers know. I remember one year when the spindles on Oppermanns 
lakester were frozen with Wendover Loc-tite.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 2:43 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Maintenance


> Since my car is waiting for a few parts (I'm getting ready to go to World 
> Finals) I thought I would look at the brake rebuild I did just before I 
> went to Speed Week. Turned all 4 drums, serviced the bearings, and put on 
> new seals...What could go wrong?
>
> I washed out everything when I got back but wanted to look again. To my 
> surprise all the drums were very rusty from going through the water at the 
> end of the road twice. 2 hours of flapper wheeling brought them back to 
> looking good again. Just 3 weeks from the end of Speed Week; I'm glad I 
> didn't just load up and go. The rust would have destroyed the lining.
>
> So if you haven't had a look I would do it before you think about that run 
> to El Mirage or Maxton...............Good Luck
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Sep  7 16:36:13 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:36:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Maintenance
References: <29674744.1189197821163.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<011801c7f198$b6c279f0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <001e01c7f1a0$141c2a40$6501a8c0@S>

After I came back from Speedweek I did my usual big cleanup of my truck but
didn't get to cleaning the driverside rubber floormat.  The other day I
looked at it and noticed little puddles.  I know what they are.  The bits of
salt attracts water right out of the air and creates a little local salt
brine environment.  Now, I live in the California in a place where the
humidity runs pretty low during the day but increases during the cool
nights, maybe not as dry as Pahrump or Lancaster, CA but still pretty dry.
So I guess this can happen just about anywhere even in the southern desert
areas this time of year when the hurricanes off the Mexican west coast push
their moisture north into the US Southwest.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Trailer Maintenance


> JD, I brought this up right after speed week, The salt works fast as most
of
> the old timers know. I remember one year when the spindles on Oppermanns
> lakester were frozen with Wendover Loc-tite.
> Glen

From jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep  7 17:40:04 2007
From: jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net (John Thornton)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:40:04 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Steve Fosset Missing
In-Reply-To: <46E1BBBE.2030101@sbcglobal.net>
References: <823505.27821.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<46E1BBBE.2030101@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <46E1E154.1070702@sbcglobal.net>

dan warner wrote:
>> "and/or cleaning up the site."
>>      That is not a part of their agenda.
>>      DW
>
>
> I have several friends who stay for up to a week after the festival 
> busting their ass cleaning up so don't go about making inaccurate 
> assumptions.
> They pay, from their own pockets, to haul away literally tons of garbage.
> They do as good a job, if not better, than any other festival you care 
> to name.
>
> John T.

From RACE427 at aol.com  Fri Sep  7 18:11:33 2007
From: RACE427 at aol.com (RACE427 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 20:11:33 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN
Message-ID: <ce1.1a2064af.341342b5@aol.com>

You guys have to know this answer.   Someone I know goes out and buys a BIG 
dollar 37 Ford Street Rod which is a fiberglass replica.   He says it is 
complete with a 37 Ford VIN number on his registration.    Here it 
comes........there is no indication of these numbers anywhere on the frame of this car.  He 
claims it is not necessary to have the VIN stamped on the car !!   I say bull.    
   If the police stop him and do a check, I believe this high $$$ car is 
going to be impounded.

     I have never heard of this before.    No way would I buy a car without a 
visual VIN somewhere on the chassis or in the case of a vintage Corvette on 
the steering column or in the glove box area.

     Any thoughts, comments and ideas are appreciated!!

      Thanks,    Tony G    LI,NY


**************************************
 See 
what's new at http://www.aol.com

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Sep  7 18:43:18 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 17:43:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN (but on the fringe of being
 "non-LSR")
References: <ce1.1a2064af.341342b5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002901c7f1b1$43e53a30$6501a8c0@S>

This is a swamp.  All too often state Motor Vehicle Department beaurocrats
make up their own rules as they go along.  Police departments and even
courts can be expected to even be less predictable in this area.  Early
(1930's) Fords usually had the frame serial number hidden to where it
couldn't be seen until after major disassembly.  Fortunately Ford was smart
enough to mark the same serial number on the transmission bell housing
visible with floorboard removal.  Unfortunately the folks at Ford didn't
anticipate the common practice of transmission replacement as a complete
assembly.  Just one example of how murky the waters are.
So your car gets stolen or impounded. The license plates get separated from
the car.  Are you ready to prove it's yours?  Will the police or a court
believe you?  I sure wouldn't own a collector grade car or street rod
without thinking that one through and doing what was needed before the
tradgedy.  Ask if your insurance will cover that situation also.   Your car
is gone.  Police find it but won't return it for whatever reason they come
up with.  Will your insurance adjuster say they won't pay off because the
car is still there even though you don't have legal possession?
How about your race car?  The moment its tires touch a public road (which
includes the shoulder of the road for all practical purposes)it's fair game.
Are you prepared?  (OK, this is the "LSR" part)
C'mon guys.........shoot holes in my assumptions!  We'll all be better
informed by the discussion.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <RACE427 at aol.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 5:11 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN


> You guys have to know this answer.   Someone I know goes out and buys a
BIG
> dollar 37 Ford Street Rod which is a fiberglass replica.   He says it is
> complete with a 37 Ford VIN number on his registration.    Here it
> comes........there is no indication of these numbers anywhere on the frame
of this car.  He
> claims it is not necessary to have the VIN stamped on the car !!   I say
bull.
>    If the police stop him and do a check, I believe this high $$$ car is
> going to be impounded.
>
>      I have never heard of this before.    No way would I buy a car
without a
> visual VIN somewhere on the chassis or in the case of a vintage Corvette
on
> the steering column or in the glove box area.
>
>      Any thoughts, comments and ideas are appreciated!!
>
>       Thanks,    Tony G    LI,NY
>
>
> **************************************
>  See
> what's new at http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> 23.weldon at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From RACE427 at aol.com  Fri Sep  7 19:06:41 2007
From: RACE427 at aol.com (RACE427 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 21:06:41 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN (but on the fringe of being
 "non-LSR")
Message-ID: <c06.21ea4661.34134fa1@aol.com>

This 37 Ford fiberglass street rod has a 79 Camaro 305 TPI engine under hood. 
  I would be worried about the origin of this small block and if it is 100% 
legit.


**************************************
 See what's new at 
http://www.aol.com

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Fri Sep  7 19:51:50 2007
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 13:51:50 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek 08 date.
Message-ID: <3062935BFF8D4F97814A2A7E92CE70EA@ChrisHarrisPC>

List,
OK it's still the 07 racing season, but does anyone know if a date has been
set for Speedweek next year.
Got a big contingent of both Kiwi cars and people going over.
Please let me know ASAP.

Chris H...................NZed.

From Flowbench at aol.com  Fri Sep  7 19:53:47 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 21:53:47 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek 08 date.
Message-ID: <c19.1f3b1898.34135aab@aol.com>

Starts Monday Aug. 18th in 2008....
See you then Chris.

Mike


**************************************
 See what's new at 
http://www.aol.com

From adin at frontier.net  Fri Sep  7 20:14:42 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 22:14:42 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN
References: <ce1.1a2064af.341342b5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003101c7f1be$04836a30$6501a8c0@ZTxp>

In Colorado the dmv will stamp a vin into anything without one.  No go 
otherwise.

The only other thing I know?  God help you if the VIN on the car doesn't 
match the VIN on the title.
(1973 car sold w/ wrong vin LETTERS)

cheers,

David in Durango
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <RACE427 at aol.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 8:11 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN


> You guys have to know this answer.   Someone I know goes out and buys a 
> BIG
> dollar 37 Ford Street Rod which is a fiberglass replica.   He says it is
> complete with a 37 Ford VIN number on his registration.    Here it
> comes........there is no indication of these numbers anywhere on the frame 
> of this car.  He
> claims it is not necessary to have the VIN stamped on the car !!   I say 
> bull.
>   If the police stop him and do a check, I believe this high $$$ car is
> going to be impounded.
>
>     I have never heard of this before.    No way would I buy a car without 
> a
> visual VIN somewhere on the chassis or in the case of a vintage Corvette 
> on
> the steering column or in the glove box area.
>
>     Any thoughts, comments and ideas are appreciated!!
>
>      Thanks,    Tony G    LI,NY
>
>
> **************************************
> See
> what's new at http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Fri Sep  7 23:02:29 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 22:02:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Doins
Message-ID: <F3BC80A3EF9C451AAB7685630A2A5396@LMS>

Rats update!

After a Strange Speedweek that included:

1.  not being to stay lit on push truck
2  a save by Paul Powells magic fingers on the ECU programing
3  getting Blown of the race coarse at 260 and sent back to inspection for it
4. Qualifying at 276 on a 267 record and getting to visit and spend the nighrt
with "HIS HONOR"-- Mayor of Impound-- DW !
5  getting to try to BACK UP on a new "green" track and overdriving what was
there---spining at 250 and                 bending the Tail feathers, "Side
ways  but not AROUND'---(yeah they work)---it  had been pointed out that they
before that they were were not HD enough before it happened.
6 getting Skip and my record bumped to 271

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. the front axel and steering has been redone
2. The frame is being extended to the end of the car
3. The chutes will now be attached at the back of the car and not in the
"chute cans"
4. am adding 400# of lead at the back to help with traction on a less than
perfect track and moving the cooling tank back will put more weight on rear
axel---may add winglets to frt to ofset frt axel weight difference
5. removed the "Spool"  ie-- welded spider gears--nobody makes a spool for the
Caddy 2.28 gears
6. installed 4 link to try to get more traction to off set the car being
probabaly 500# heavier.
7. Also the Fin will have a much stronger vertical bar

6. Praying I can get it all finished by WF
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Fri Sep  7 23:05:38 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 22:05:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
Message-ID: <F55D7796114F4A3C8C1A32DCEBB743D5@LMS>

Best wishes and safe travel, and runs to ALL WOS participants!!!!!!!!!!!!!

be SAFE and go FAST to all WOS participants
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  8 00:20:01 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 06:20:01 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN  NO   LSR   Dave
In-Reply-To: <ce1.1a2064af.341342b5@aol.com>
References: <ce1.1a2064af.341342b5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W21826026E8C4E6FA74DC7ED9C60@phx.gbl>

  OF COURSE   it needs the #  on the frame.

   How the hell ELSE can you match paperwork with the  'supposed'  car ?????

   Tell your buddy; Glass 37 foads   ain't   FORDS.


  They is just 1-1 scale model kits.





  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
> From: RACE427 at aol.com
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 20:11:33 -0400
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN
>
> You guys have to know this answer.   Someone I know goes out and buys a BIG
> dollar 37 Ford Street Rod which is a fiberglass replica.    He says it is
> complete with a 37 Ford VIN number on his registration.    Here it
> comes........there is no indication of these numbers anywhere on the frame
of this car.  He
> claims it is not necessary to have the VIN stamped on the car !!   I say
bull.
>    If the police stop him and do a check, I believe this high $$$ car is
> going to be impounded.
>
>      I have never heard of this before.    No way would I buy a car without
a
> visual VIN somewhere on the chassis or in the case of a vintage Corvette on
> the steering column or in the glove box area.
>
>      Any thoughts, comments and ideas are appreciated!!
>
>       Thanks,    Tony G    LI,NY
>
>
> **************************************
>  See
> what's new at http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Sep  8 06:49:03 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 05:49:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tyler's Gerald Jessup breaks Vintage speed record -
	TWT Forums
Message-ID: <000501c7f216$a29bf2c0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.twtex.com:80/forums/showthread.php?t=20967

he did it at age 71
dale
still working on 57 chev cool in pahrump 65 going to 95

From svoboda at marsweb.com  Sat Sep  8 08:51:15 2007
From: svoboda at marsweb.com (rex svoboda)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 08:51:15 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] sportsmanship
Message-ID: <46E2B6E3.8020600@marsweb.com>

I would like to recognize an individual at the BUB meet who demonstrated 
the spirit of sportsmanship that exists in the Land Speed community.  
The long course starting line had a half dozen streamliners of all sizes 
ready to launch after waiting a full day due to wind and rain.  The 
starter was having a tough time getting  them all lined up in order and 
launched.  Salt gremlins were present  and minor mechanical problems 
were slowing progress.  This rider stepped off his bike which was in 
competition for an FIM record and some $10,000 in possible prize money 
and helped the starter get things organized and the liners pushed off.  
In one instance this individual grabbed the starter who was looking in 
another direction after launching a liner and pulled him out of the way 
of a possible collision.   After qualifying, going through impound and 
staging at the 9 mile return starting line the winds came up holding him 
at that position.  The rider told the starter that the winds did not 
bother him but when informed that the cross winds were above event 
safety maximum (blowing at 20-25 mph) the rider said he understood and 
waited patiently.  When the day was finally called at 6:45 pm for the 
continuing winds  this rider went down the course with the starter and 
helped pull the flags down for the night.  This rider missed top sit on 
bike speed and $5,000 by 2 tenths of a mile per hour;  at the awards 
ceremony he just smiled and shrugged his shoulders. Thank you John Noonan

Rex Svoboda

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  8 09:56:51 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 15:56:51 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] sportsmanship
In-Reply-To: <46E2B6E3.8020600@marsweb.com>
References: <46E2B6E3.8020600@marsweb.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W961C55F51675C9487BA8ED9C60@phx.gbl>

    After reading this, ...    my impression here is that it is one class act
simply recognizing another....     cudo's to both gentlemen.    Class.
THAT's what its all about......
           "All we can take to our grave is our self-respect"  -
                               - cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,
-18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,   -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
-60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse
Mile" ...  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway  -2325 miles due east
of the Bonneville Salt Flats     and never more than a few feet from a cold
one  -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,
Cold Beer, Fast Cars, an' Warm Willin' Wimin'  Speedway Bikes, Harley D's and
Minibikes rode with equal joy,    Dog Training,  Murdersickel parts,
Emergency Zeppelin repairs,LSR, Aerial Surveillance,  Politics exposed for
what it is, Sprint Cars,              -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the
FINE ART that they are


     ------------------------------------- oooo
--------------------------------------


> Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 08:51:15 -0600
> From: svoboda at marsweb.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Land-speed] sportsmanship

 I would like to recognize an individual at the BUB meet who demonstrated the
spirit of sportsmanship that exists in the Land Speed community. The long
course starting line had a half dozen streamliners of all sizes ready to
launch after waiting a full day due to wind and rain.  The starter was having
a tough time getting  them all lined up in order and launched.  Salt gremlins
were present  and minor mechanical problems were slowing progress.

This rider stepped off his bike which was in competition for an FIM record and
some $10,000 in possible prize money and helped the starter get things
organized and the liners pushed off. In one instance this individual grabbed
the starter who was looking in  another direction after launching a liner and
pulled him out of the way of a possible collision.   After qualifying, going
through impound and staging at the 9 mile return starting line the winds came
up holding him at that position.  The rider told the starter that the winds
did not bother him but when informed that the cross winds were above event
safety maximum (blowing at 20-25 mph) the rider said he understood and waited
patiently.

When the day was finally called at 6:45 pm for the continuing winds  this
rider went down the course with the starter and helped pull the flags down for
the night.  This rider missed top sit on bike speed and $5,000 by 2 tenths of
a mile per hour;  at the awards
ceremony he just smiled and shrugged his shoulders.  Thank you John Noonan

                              - Rex Svoboda

_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sat Sep  8 11:00:28 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:00:28 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Jo Coddington's Spin On You Tube>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <090820071700.21862.46E2D52C0009BB8B0000556622007340760101090E030906@comcast.net>

Jo Coddington's spin is on you tube:

I don't see much braking or attempt to stop.  Note the 'near miss' to the time slip tent!

To 'flustered' to pull the chute??/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO2mxdzIkF0&mode=related&search

Jim McNaul

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 11:39:15 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 10:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN
In-Reply-To: <ce1.1a2064af.341342b5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <955703.39019.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Big issue in California. Boyd and others have been fined in recent years for creating cars that have never existed.
   
  There is a number on the '32 frame rails under my '29. This is the number that the car is registered with as a '32. I don't know where the number came from but the car is legal in the eyes of the DMV.
   
  DW
   
  

RACE427 at aol.com wrote:
  You guys have to know this answer. Someone I know goes out and buys a BIG 
dollar 37 Ford Street Rod which is a fiberglass replica. He says it is 
complete with a 37 Ford VIN number on his registration. Here it 
comes........there is no indication of these numbers anywhere on the frame of this car. He 
claims it is not necessary to have the VIN stamped on the car !! I say bull. 
If the police stop him and do a check, I believe this high $$$ car is 
going to be impounded.

I have never heard of this before. No way would I buy a car without a 
visual VIN somewhere on the chassis or in the case of a vintage Corvette on 
the steering column or in the glove box area.

Any thoughts, comments and ideas are appreciated!!

Thanks, Tony G LI,NY


**************************************
See 
what's new at http://www.aol.com
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links. 

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 11:52:20 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 10:52:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Doins
In-Reply-To: <F3BC80A3EF9C451AAB7685630A2A5396@LMS>
Message-ID: <155623.5164.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Sparky,
   
  What you didn't know was that Paul came to impound after you left, plugged in the laptop and finally said "thats 290". Folded up the laptop and went to dinner. I know because the crew drnnk my Miller Lite while Paul was working.
   
  I don't just check 'em in, I stay till then end of the day and know almost as many secrets as Jack D.
   
  DW

Sparky <sparky.2211 at cox.net> wrote:
  Rats update!

After a Strange Speedweek that included:

1. not being to stay lit on push truck
2 a save by Paul Powells magic fingers on the ECU programing
3 getting Blown of the race coarse at 260 and sent back to inspection for it
4. Qualifying at 276 on a 267 record and getting to visit and spend the nighrt
with "HIS HONOR"-- Mayor of Impound-- DW !
5 getting to try to BACK UP on a new "green" track and overdriving what was
there---spining at 250 and bending the Tail feathers, "Side
ways but not AROUND'---(yeah they work)---it had been pointed out that they
before that they were were not HD enough before it happened.
6 getting Skip and my record bumped to 271

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. the front axel and steering has been redone
2. The frame is being extended to the end of the car
3. The chutes will now be attached at the back of the car and not in the
"chute cans"
4. am adding 400# of lead at the back to help with traction on a less than
perfect track and moving the cooling tank back will put more weight on rear
axel---may add winglets to frt to ofset frt axel weight difference
5. removed the "Spool" ie-- welded spider gears--nobody makes a spool for the
Caddy 2.28 gears
6. installed 4 link to try to get more traction to off set the car being
probabaly 500# heavier.
7. Also the Fin will have a much stronger vertical bar

6. Praying I can get it all finished by WF
Sparky
AA/_ L 2211
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 11:59:07 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 10:59:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Jo Coddington's Spin On You Tube>From>Jim  McNaul
In-Reply-To: <090820071700.21862.46E2D52C0009BB8B0000556622007340760101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <234260.59959.qm@web52502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

It is my understanding that while rolling backwards she had both hands on the brake handle. Brakes didn't work in reverse.
   
  DW

jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:
  Jo Coddington's spin is on you tube:

I don't see much braking or attempt to stop. Note the 'near miss' to the time slip tent!

To 'flustered' to pull the chute??/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO2mxdzIkF0&mode=related&search

Jim McNaul
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake. 
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

From karhu at california.com  Sat Sep  8 12:08:45 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 11:08:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Jo Coddington's Spin On You Tube>From>Jim McNaul
References: <234260.59959.qm@web52502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007101c7f243$4c0b7b60$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

double leading shoes?  set too loose?
Benn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
To: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>; "land-speed-digest"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Jo Coddington's Spin On You Tube>From>Jim
McNaul


> It is my understanding that while rolling backwards she had both hands
on the brake handle. Brakes didn't work in reverse.
>
>   DW
>
> jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:
>   Jo Coddington's spin is on you tube:
>
> I don't see much braking or attempt to stop. Note the 'near miss' to
the time slip tent!
>
> To 'flustered' to pull the chute??/
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO2mxdzIkF0&mode=related&search
>
> Jim McNaul
> _______________________________________________
> dwarner230 at yahoo.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>
>
>
> Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> _______________________________________________
> karhu at california.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Sep  8 12:03:45 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 11:03:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN
References: <955703.39019.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001001c7f242$9961b830$6400a8c0@Dale>

my stock 34 has numbers on frame rail
dale
ssuunnyy and only 85 in pahrump, working on 57 chev

From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
To: <RACE427 at aol.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>


> Big issue in California. Boyd and others have been fined in recent years 
> for creating cars that have never existed.
>
>  There is a number on the '32 frame rails under my '29. This is the number 
> that the car is registered with as a '32. I don't know where the number 
> came from but the car is legal in the eyes of the DMV.
>
>  DW

> RACE427 at aol.com wrote:
>  You guys have to know this answer. Someone I know goes out and buys a BIG
> dollar 37 Ford Street Rod which is a fiberglass replica. He says it is
> complete with a 37 Ford VIN number on his registration. Here it
> comes........there is no indication of these numbers anywhere on the frame 
> of this car. He
> claims it is not necessary to have the VIN stamped on the car !! I say 
> bull.
> If the police stop him and do a check, I believe this high $$$ car is
> going to be impounded.
>
> I have never heard of this before. No way would I buy a car without a
> visual VIN somewhere on the chassis or in the case of a vintage Corvette 
> on
> the steering column or in the glove box area.
>
> Any thoughts, comments and ideas are appreciated!!
>
> Thanks, Tony G LI,NY

From wmtsmith at cox.net  Sat Sep  8 14:22:51 2007
From: wmtsmith at cox.net (Wm. T. Smith)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 13:22:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Doins
In-Reply-To: <155623.5164.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <155623.5164.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <593E9D1DE7474F53AB63FA6950FF6BA4@LMS>

Hopefully we get to find out this year!!!!!!!!!!  I knew Paul was suppose to
come by and down load the run and evaluate it----Afterward when we were
breaking camp I was able to thank him again for his help----he would not let
me buy him a beer but they drank yours----well looks like I need to replace
yours ---honorable thing to do at the very least!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Dan
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: dan warner
  To: Sparky ; AA List
  Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 10:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Doins


  Sparky,

  What you didn't know was that Paul came to impound after you left, plugged
in the laptop and finally said "thats 290". Folded up the laptop and went to
dinner. I know because the crew drnnk my Miller Lite while Paul was working.

  I don't just check 'em in, I stay till then end of the day and know almost
as many secrets as Jack D.

  DW

  to see what's on, when.

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Sat Sep  8 15:48:52 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 14:48:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN
In-Reply-To: <955703.39019.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <955703.39019.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <81759546-E54F-4C17-8C9E-8CA543429FF4@gmail.com>

On Sep 8, 2007, at 10:39 AM, dan warner wrote:

> Big issue in California. Boyd and others have been fined in recent  
> years for creating cars that have never existed.

Yea, I believe that california will issue 500 "new vehicle" vins to  
the first 500 applicants in the state each year... these are usually  
gone by the second or third of January, and unfortunately require  
said vehicle to pass all current smog regulations.

~Jon

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sat Sep  8 15:48:38 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 14:48:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Jo Coddington's Spin On You Tube>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <234260.59959.qm@web52502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <090820071700.21862.46E2D52C0009BB8B0000556622007340760101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<234260.59959.qm@web52502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <037b01c7f262$043334d0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Dan;

They must not be disc brakes then. Maybe a drum setup with leading shoes;
those become trailing shoes in reverse and need lots higher brake line
pressure. It would be interesting to know the details.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
dan warner
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 10:59 AM
To: jgmagoo at comcast.net; land-speed-digest
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Jo Coddington's Spin On You Tube>From>Jim McNaul

It is my understanding that while rolling backwards she had both hands on
the brake handle. Brakes didn't work in reverse.
   
  DW

jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:
  Jo Coddington's spin is on you tube:

I don't see much braking or attempt to stop. Note the 'near miss' to the
time slip tent!

To 'flustered' to pull the chute??/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO2mxdzIkF0&mode=related&search

Jim McNaul

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Sat Sep  8 18:59:58 2007
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 20:59:58 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Putting a #2H  fine point on  Jo Codding'spin
Message-ID: <33433524.1189299598751.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml11>

I agree that  had the car simply swapped ends, even after backing  off the throttle,   with the brake handle hauled tight at speed,  the leading shoes would be on the wrong side of the drums to be effective -   most of us have re-positioned reversed shoe sets over the years to  "magically" restore    braking power...    

With the throttle lifted,   in  neutral and/or  clutch  engaged, I would think that the CoF between salt and tires is low enough to lock them up  until it swaps ends back to nose first,  reloading  the shoes hard against the drums (providing the lever is hauled tight).  Theres a good chance that a hard tug on the brakes would induce a Hollywood spin regardless of which end is pointing wherever...     

I'd also speculate that once the wheels were  locked up, with all excess slack  out of the cable, when  the tail points in the direction of forward travel again,  the force  holding the shoes locked will outweigh  the negative torque against  the shoe set.     In the last few frames right after the timing tower pass, the car swapped ends one last time right  after the tires squeal (for the first time) and it looks like the brakes were set.  


---- neil at dbelltech.com wrote: 
> They must not be disc brakes then. Maybe a drum setup with leading shoes;
> those become trailing shoes in reverse and need lots higher brake line
> pressure. It would be interesting to know the details.

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  8 22:31:15 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 04:31:15 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN  NO LSR   ok Dave
In-Reply-To: <c9b.18fea0dc.3414cbb2@aol.com>
References: <c9b.18fea0dc.3414cbb2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W41ACA627C663DC28979F60D9C70@phx.gbl>

  'common sense is not all that common'

                  ---------   attributed to  Ben Franklin    -AND Voltare

  I'm thinkin Ben stole it from the Roman
                           -after he could'nt do nuthin' about it anyway.

  ( just using MY common sense)

  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,




From: RACE427 at aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 00:08:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Street Rod VIN  NO   LSR   Dave
To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com

Doug,



    I agree with you all the way !!!!!!    LOL



    Tony G

_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Sep  9 06:22:10 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 05:22:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] How I Love FAST Women! - Racing - CYCLE WORLD
	FORUMS#M1327
Message-ID: <000501c7f2dc$0bfb3d50$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://forums.cycleworld.com/cycleworld/board/message?board.id=racing&message
.id=1327#M1327

she set the record, and the comments after are interesting, sounds like this
group sometimes
dale
getting ready to work on 57 vhev, after watchinf f-1 on TV

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Sun Sep  9 07:27:43 2007
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 9:27:43 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Fast Women comment-ary
Message-ID: <27816674.1189344463922.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml11>

 Dale, 
That red-inked  "Cherry Picker's Heaven" comment was backed up by Go Daddy hisself,  but  even if the bike was set up and ready for a  monkey to bust the record, all it takes is one more knot of wind to close the course, or one little bump in the wrong place to ruin a whole day.   And, as proven so many times before, the big bad corporate wolves  waving  checkbooks  don't always blow the records from the  tightly clasped hands of the little guys.

It was  the comment from "Hackasaw" about "kids regularly bustin' 160" that showed  ignorance of what it takes to earn a record.  Anyone   can draw a killer  poker hand  once in a while - but the odds zilch against drawing two royal flushes in a row.  Sure, I could hop on my son's 'Busa and hit a buck sixty and let off the throttle....   But would I (or any number of us)  want to hang on to a two wheeled wobble-rocket for a whole mile on damp salt, twice?   Hmmm.... not me. 
I especially  liked the comment    "It must be a truly heavy burden, being the official corrector for the whole of a mistaken mankind.."   might even try that one out on a certain 'throw you under the bus" coworker.... 
Mark C 
at the edge of the Great Dizmal Swamp

Dale wrote: 
> she set the record, and the comments after are interesting....

From atrav at copper.net  Sun Sep  9 09:35:42 2007
From: atrav at copper.net (atrav)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 10:35:42 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] How I Love FAST Women! - Racing - CYCLE WORLD
 FORUMS#M1327
In-Reply-To: <000501c7f2dc$0bfb3d50$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7f2dc$0bfb3d50$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <46E412CE.4030900@copper.net>

I'd be curious as to what streamlining differences they're talking about 
with the reference to changing the body work from asphalt to salt.
-Aron-

Dale H Pulju wrote:
> http://forums.cycleworld.com/cycleworld/board/message?board.id=racing&message
> .id=1327#M1327
>
> she set the record, and the comments after are interesting, sounds like this
> group sometimes
> dale
> getting ready to work on 57 vhev, after watchinf f-1 on TV
> _______________________________________________
> atrav at copper.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Sep  9 09:37:37 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 15:37:37 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] How I Love FAST Women! - Racing - CYCLE WORLD
 FORUMS#M1327
Message-ID: <090920071537.7250.46E41340000E5F0C00001C522206824693CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

As a side note on this ... some fast men ...

Rollie Free made his record setting runs on the Vincent Black Lightning
on September 13, fifty nine years ago this coming week .  The iconic
shots show him flat on the bike in his bathing suit.  He describes 
himself as being "blue with the cold" after the early morning record
setting runs.  Two way average 150.313.
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/15october02vincentmotors.html

I'm sure the bikers have seen photos of the Joe Petrali record setting 
Harley from 1937.  He held the record Rollie Free broke on the salt in
1948.  The "official" photos show the Harley with streamlining from front
to back with the front wheel covered by discs like large Moon Discs.
In actuality, the bike was a pig at speed with those in place.  The actual 
FIM runs were with the front wire wheel exposed.  Jeff Decker did a life 
sized bronze series of the bike.  The original is at a Harley dealer in
Northern California.  There's another at Daytona where the old
course comes off the sand and onto the pavement.  Jeff made sure 
that one was well supported because even though it is on top of a 
monument he could see some drunk biker climbing up for a "ride".
Another copy is at the Harley factory.  They have the covered front
wheel.  The casting series is six.  I'm not sure where the other three
are.
http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/news/2002/PetraliRacer.asp

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: atrav <atrav at copper.net>
> I'd be curious as to what streamlining differences they're talking about 
> with the reference to changing the body work from asphalt to salt.
> -Aron-

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Sep  9 09:56:30 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 09:56:30 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Putting a #2H  fine point on  Jo Codding'spin
References: <33433524.1189299598751.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml11>
Message-ID: <002a01c7f2f9$fd986530$6401a8c0@Glens>

I had the best seat to witness the spin from the timing trailer.  The 
roadster was still under power when it went into the spin. She tried to 
correct it but appeared to over correct that is easy to do. She only has a 
few rides on the salt and it got away from her
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ifixmgs at cox.net>
To: "'land-speed-digest'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Putting a #2H fine point on Jo Codding'spin


>I agree that  had the car simply swapped ends, even after backing  off the 
>throttle,   with the brake handle hauled tight at speed,  the leading shoes 
>would be on the wrong side of the drums to be effective -   most of us have 
>re-positioned reversed shoe sets over the years to  "magically" restore 
>braking power...
>
> With the throttle lifted,   in  neutral and/or  clutch  engaged, I would 
> think that the CoF between salt and tires is low enough to lock them up 
> until it swaps ends back to nose first,  reloading  the shoes hard against 
> the drums (providing the lever is hauled tight).  Theres a good chance 
> that a hard tug on the brakes would induce a Hollywood spin regardless of 
> which end is pointing wherever...
>
> I'd also speculate that once the wheels were  locked up, with all excess 
> slack  out of the cable, when  the tail points in the direction of forward 
> travel again,  the force  holding the shoes locked will outweigh  the 
> negative torque against  the shoe set.     In the last few frames right 
> after the timing tower pass, the car swapped ends one last time right 
> after the tires squeal (for the first time) and it looks like the brakes 
> were set.
>
>
> ---- neil at dbelltech.com wrote:
>> They must not be disc brakes then. Maybe a drum setup with leading shoes;
>> those become trailing shoes in reverse and need lots higher brake line
>> pressure. It would be interesting to know the details.
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  9 11:14:56 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 17:14:56 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Putting a #2H  fine point on  Jo Codding'spin
In-Reply-To: <002a01c7f2f9$fd986530$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <33433524.1189299598751.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml11>
	<002a01c7f2f9$fd986530$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W1526B22C4BA65BCFA15657D9C70@phx.gbl>

    I say let's not 'pick on' Jo....  after all,

    it ain't her fault shes married to Floyd Cotterpin

     how would YOU like THAT job ?          LOL     ha  ha  ha  ha

    cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,



> From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> To: ifixmgs at cox.net; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 09:56:30 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Putting a #2H  fine point on  Jo Codding'spin
>
> I had the best seat to witness the spin from the timing trailer.  The
> roadster was still under power when it went into the spin. She tried to
> correct it but appeared to over correct that is easy to do. She only has a
> few rides on the salt and it got away from her
> Glen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ifixmgs at cox.net>
> To: "'land-speed-digest'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 6:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Putting a #2H fine point on Jo Codding'spin
>
>
> >I agree that  had the car simply swapped ends, even after backing  off the
> >throttle,   with the brake handle hauled tight at speed,  the leading shoes
> >would be on the wrong side of the drums to be effective -   most of us have
> >re-positioned reversed shoe sets over the years to  "magically" restore
> >braking power...
> >
> > With the throttle lifted,   in  neutral and/or  clutch  engaged, I would
> > think that the CoF between salt and tires is low enough to lock them up
> > until it swaps ends back to nose first,  reloading  the shoes hard against
> > the drums (providing the lever is hauled tight).  Theres a good chance
> > that a hard tug on the brakes would induce a Hollywood spin regardless of
> > which end is pointing wherever...
> >
> > I'd also speculate that once the wheels were  locked up, with all excess
> > slack  out of the cable, when  the tail points in the direction of forward
> > travel again,  the force  holding the shoes locked will outweigh  the
> > negative torque against  the shoe set.     In the last few frames right
> > after the timing tower pass, the car swapped ends one last time right
> > after the tires squeal (for the first time) and it looks like the brakes
> > were set.

_________________________________________________________________
More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live
Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration
_HM_mini_5G_0907

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sun Sep  9 13:21:42 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 19:21:42 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] How would YOU like THAT job?>From>Jim McNalul
Message-ID: <090920071921.21841.46E447C60004A68F0000555122007358340101090E030906@comcast.net>

how would YOU like THAT job ? 

I can't imagine anything worse!!!!

If that's his true persona shining through on American Hot Rodder , I have never seen a more dysfunctional managerial style in my life!!

JG

From dlodom at charter.net  Sun Sep  9 13:25:58 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:25:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tire machine
Message-ID: <46E448C6.7060907@charter.net>

I have a Coats 10-10 tire machine. Air operated, mounts and dismounts 
tires. Bonneville tires, race tires, truck tires, car tires.....etc.
I got a newer machine for free, just had to go pick it up.
Someone can have this machine for the same price.
Central coast of calif.  e-mail off list
Doug Odom in big ditch

From zoombot at cox.net  Sun Sep  9 15:59:17 2007
From: zoombot at cox.net (Pile,Chris)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 15:59:17 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek Pits on Google Satellite Maps
Message-ID: <000601c7f32c$ab13a350$34e3cd48@HomePC>

    List -

    Since Google's satellite maps are updated more often than Mapquest's - you
can actually find the Speedweek pits right now. The timing trailers are
visible, too. Difficult to tell, but brighter areas may be the scraped
courses. Roads are easily found in black, the canals are gray. The Bend in the
Road shows no vehicles, but what looks like tracks of some hot dogger whizzing
around. Neat stuff!

    Chris Pile aka aircap

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sun Sep  9 16:24:21 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:24:21 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] How would YOU like THAT job?>From>Jim McNalul
Message-ID: <ca0.1b4cd13c.3415cc95@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/9/2007 3:22:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
jgmagoo at comcast.net writes:

how  would YOU like THAT job ? 

I can't imagine anything worse!!!!

If  that's his true persona shining through on American Hot Rodder , I have 
never  seen a more dysfunctional managerial style in my  life!!

JG


Nah !!!...That's his Boob Tube personality/image, kind of a large Toulouse  
Lautrec in a Hawaiian shirt with a Paul Teutal Sr. attitude. Makes for  good 
TV.  How interesting would a clean-cut bean counter guy in a suit be  ?
 I still think there's room on the Discovery channel for TurkTV,  featuring 
Blue Hair, Teddy Bears, and the spontaneouesly burning  garages.
 Bob, BIG FAN, W
 
 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Sun Sep  9 16:36:55 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:36:55 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] How would YOU like THAT job?>From>Jim McNalul
Message-ID: <c5c.18d4afa3.3415cf87@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/9/07 6:24:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BWANA343 at aol.com 
writes:


Nah !!!...That's his Boob Tube personality/image, kind of a large Toulouse  
Lautrec in a Hawaiian shirt with a Paul Teutal Sr. attitude. Makes for  good 
TV.  How interesting would a clean-cut bean counter guy in a suit be  ?
I still think there's room on the Discovery channel for TurkTV,  featuring 
Blue Hair, Teddy Bears, and the spontaneouesly burning  garages.
Bob, BIG FAN, W

Don't forget people living in glass houses throwing fake rocks. Bob in 
connecticut



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From dlodom at charter.net  Sun Sep  9 17:38:35 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 16:38:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tire machine
Message-ID: <46E483FB.6040605@charter.net>

Sparky asked for the tire machine first. Thanks to the other people that 
were interested.

I have a Coats 10-10 tire machine. Air operated, mounts and dismounts
tires. Bonneville tires, race tires, truck tires, car tires.....etc.
I got a newer machine for free, just had to go pick it up.
Someone can have this machine for the same price.
Central coast of calif.  e-mail off list
Doug Odom in big ditch

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Sun Sep  9 20:20:13 2007
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 22:20:13 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Putting a #2H  fine point on  Jo Codding'spin
Message-ID: <30712583.1189390813725.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml11>

I'm with you on not pickin' on Jo.     I was just speculating on what might have happened.  At a buck-anything, things happen fast and even three seconds on the brakes  might seem like an eternity.    About THAT job... I'm sure there's times when my wife would swear there wasn't a whit of  difference between him and me except for the beard .   


---- Doug Anderson <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
>       I say let's not 'pick on' Jo....  after all,
> 
>     it ain't her fault shes married to Floyd Cotterpin
> 
>      how would YOU like THAT job ?   

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun Sep  9 20:21:26 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 22:21:26 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] How would YOU like THAT job?>From>Jim McNalul
Message-ID: <005101c7f351$4ade6d60$461a2544@john>

Paul Teutul Sr is really like that . My neighbor ordered a bike from them 
and then called back the next day to change the color . Paul said "look 
turkey , you call here again and I'm gona cancel the order and keep the 
deposit" .

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  9 21:46:07 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 03:46:07 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] How would YOU like THAT job?>From>Jim McNalul
In-Reply-To: <090920071921.21841.46E447C60004A68F0000555122007358340101090E030906@comcast.net>
References: <090920071921.21841.46E447C60004A68F0000555122007358340101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W24C421A968F94E4A78BA40D9C00@phx.gbl>

            I say,

          Hear     HEAR!



     cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,


From: jgmagoo at comcast.net
To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com
CC: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: How would YOU like THAT job?>From>Jim McNalul
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 19:21:42 +0000



how would YOU like THAT job ?

I can't imagine anything worse!!!!

If that's his true persona shining through on American Hot Rodder , I have
never seen a more dysfunctional managerial style in my life!!

JG

_________________________________________________________________
More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live
Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration
_HM_mini_5G_0907

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  9 21:53:35 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 03:53:35 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] How would YOU like THAT job?>From>Jim McNalul
In-Reply-To: <005101c7f351$4ade6d60$461a2544@john>
References: <005101c7f351$4ade6d60$461a2544@john>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W5A45D2A72FBE65591A924D9C00@phx.gbl>

  John,

  I've heard the same thing;   that he's just a big blowhard

   he 'was' a welder/steel salesman ....then, along came TVeeeeeeee

        ( he must be one whale of a good actor/bullshit artist is all I can
say ...)

    of course the BIG Q is  "WHY" in hell would your neighbor
                 -be so dumb as to want  one of their  "creations"

       -have you ever watched these clowns in action ?

        Jeees  I wouldn't let them near anything I owned

        cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,
.............................................................................
...................................

> From: joyseydevil at comcast.net
> To: Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 22:21:26 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] How would YOU like THAT job?>From>Jim McNalul
>
> Paul Teutul Sr is really like that . My neighbor ordered a bike from them
> and then called back the next day to change the color .

Paul said "look turkey , you call here again and I'm gonna cancel the order
and keep the deposit" .

_________________________________________________________________
Gear up for Halo. 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. Its our way
of saying thanks for using Windows Live.
http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_WLHMTxt_2

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Sep  9 22:14:46 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:14:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR--The Border
Message-ID: <C24BAF55CCB84B41BA1AFFF842B7E8A9@LMS>

I saw a documentry Sat. morning about our Southern Border---this was a non
partisan presentation about what is going on concerning our Border Security.
I feel so strongly about what I saw that I will send anyone who is genuinely
intrested a 1.5. hour DVD that will come out of my race budget at 24.95 per
copy.
 To get an idea of what I am talking about go to www.bordermovie.com you can
not order the dvd from this site is the reason I make this offer.

Please understand that I would not make this offer if I felt the movie was
overtly Political!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It is about the survivial of this great
country!!!!!!!!!!

If you send me your mailing address I will send you a copy untill my wife
stops me!!!!!!!!!!!! or I run out of race budget!!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Mon Sep 10 07:29:28 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:29:28 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Steve Fossett/Non LSR
Message-ID: <cde.1925e937.3416a0b8@aol.com>

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Return-path: <BWANA343 at aol.com>
From: BWANA343 at aol.com
Full-name: BWANA343
Message-ID: <cc9.1a25c54c.3416a093 at aol.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:28:51 EDT
Subject: Steve Fossett/Non LSR
To: BWANA343 at aol.com
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Aviation Web Site uses updated satellite images for Fossett search
 
_http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/SteveFossettSearch_AmazonMechanicalTurk_
PleaseHelp_196097-1.html_ 
(http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/SteveFossettSearch_AmazonMechanicalTurk_PleaseHelp_196097-1.html) 



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From ifixmgs at cox.net  Mon Sep 10 12:51:46 2007
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:51:46 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Don Biglow are you out there? Semi LSR
Message-ID: <241778.1189450306566.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml16.mgt.cox.net>

If Don is not on the BBS, and someone can get an email to him, please tell him that 
fellow racer Bill Crowley (Formula Fords in late 70's)  would like to get in touch to say 
hi!  He can send me an email and I'll forward it to Bill.   
  

Mark C
ifixmgs at cox.net

From RACE427 at aol.com  Mon Sep 10 19:11:03 2007
From: RACE427 at aol.com (RACE427 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:11:03 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] You Mentioned American Choppers: It's Shop Chaos
 on the Tube ~
Message-ID: <bd4.17242b39.34174527@aol.com>

I have also not heard good things about their workmanship.  Do not if it is 
true as I have only seen their Snap-On bike at the NYC Auto Show years ago.

    Tony G     LI,NY


**************************************
 See what's new at 
http://www.aol.com

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 20:15:23 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:15:23 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] You Mentioned American Choppers: It's Shop Chaos
 on the Tube ~
In-Reply-To: <bd4.17242b39.34174527@aol.com>
References: <bd4.17242b39.34174527@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5f048ef70709101915s758917c6x532818a1e013bc1a@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/10/07, RACE427 at aol.com <RACE427 at aol.com> wrote:
> I have also not heard good things about their workmanship.  Do not if it is
> true as I have only seen their Snap-On bike at the NYC Auto Show years ago.
>

I used to wath that show when it first was on discovery... Personally,
I think their bikes are really cool looking, but most are hardly
functional looking, and some appear really difficult to comfortably
cruise on... *shrugs* And Paul's an ass (both of them, but especially
senior)

-- 
~Jon

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Sep 11 21:02:06 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:02:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Total Motorcycle Community :: View topic - BUELL BLAST
 SETS NEW LAND SPEED RECORD AT BONNEVILLE NATIONA
Message-ID: <000501c7f4e9$4ecd8e80$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com:80/BBS/archive/o_t__t_24800__buell-blast-sets-
new-land-speed-record-at-bonneville-nationa.html

motorcycle guys set record
dale
dark and thinking about what to do tomorrow in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Sep 11 21:04:38 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:04:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA at NHRA museum-The Internet Source for
 Motorsports News and Information
Message-ID: <000501c7f4e9$aaab2a50$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.whowon.com:80/sResults.asp?SanctionID=1141&StoryID=232452

dale in pahrump

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 11 21:22:49 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 03:22:49 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR- -ABOUT OUR  Border
In-Reply-To: <C24BAF55CCB84B41BA1AFFF842B7E8A9@LMS>
References: <C24BAF55CCB84B41BA1AFFF842B7E8A9@LMS>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W428B4F0A2D64A3C7533AB3D9C20@phx.gbl>

Sparky;

 I've been watching (and trying to warn people about) this "problem" for
twenty years.

No-one was ever interested.

Thank God I don't have kids growing up, to someday try to enter the
workforce.


thanks for the offer m' friend,..  but I think I don't need to see it
         -I've been watching from the helpless sidelines for a long, long
time...

seriously,  "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

     ------------------------------------- oooo
--------------------------------------
    Wise words from the ancients especially in light of today's 'troubles' :
VULGAS VULT DECEPI

( the (common) people wish to be deceived )                            -
Phaedrus



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xx

> From: sparky.2211 at cox.net
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:14:46 -0700
> Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR--The Border
>
> I saw a documentary Sat. morning about our Southern Border---this was a non
> partisan presentation about what is going on concerning our Border
Security.
> I feel so strongly about what I saw that I will send anyone who is
genuinely
> interested a 1.5. hour DVD that will come out of my race budget at 24.95
per
> copy.  To get an idea of what I am talking about go to www.bordermovie.com
you can not order the dvd from this site is the reason I make this offer.
>
> Please understand that I would not make this offer if I felt the movie was
> overtly Political!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It is about the survival of this great
country!!!!!!!!!!
>
> If you send me your mailing address I will send you a copy untill my wife
> stops me!!!!!!!!!!!!    or I run out of race budget!!!!!!!!!!!
>
 Sparky
> AA/_ L  2211

_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From zoombot at cox.net  Wed Sep 12 13:53:49 2007
From: zoombot at cox.net (Pile,Chris)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:53:49 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA at NHRA museum
Message-ID: <000b01c7f576$a35cc320$34e3cd48@HomePC>

    List & Dale -

    I notice the first car listed is Stu Hilborn's - is this Lattin's
replica?

    Thanks! - Chris Pile aka aircap

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 14:20:10 2007
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:20:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] MAT-Team cracks over 200 mph... on ice!
Message-ID: <154945.49995.qm@web58006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

"Oulu, Finland - A Bentley Continental GT, driven by four-times                        World Rally Champion Juha Kankkunen, smashed the world ice                        speed record, reaching an average speed of 321.65km/h on                        frozen sea off the coast of Finland."

http://www.mat.fi/news.htm

Found this while checking out their restoration work. Take a look at the gallery, beautiful work on stunning cars. 

Dale Krumheuer
Cleveland Ohio


  
      I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the
  Intolerant, and kindness from the Unkind; yet strangely, I am
  ungrateful to these teachers."
  -Kahlil Gibran
  



       
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 14:35:44 2007
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:35:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] MAT-Team cracks over 200 mph... on ice!
In-Reply-To: <154945.49995.qm@web58006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <138788.56813.qm@web58006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

and here it is on youtube;  

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NCXkaR_6BS4

Dale Krumheuer <dmirror3 at yahoo.com> wrote: "Oulu, Finland - A Bentley Continental GT, driven by four-times                        World Rally Champion Juha Kankkunen, smashed the world ice                        speed record, reaching an average speed of 321.65km/h on                        frozen sea off the coast of Finland."

http://www.mat.fi/news.htm

Found this while checking out their restoration work. Take a look at the gallery, beautiful work on stunning cars. 

Dale Krumheuer
Cleveland Ohio


  
      I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the
  Intolerant, and kindness from the Unkind; yet strangely, I am
  ungrateful to these teachers."
  -Kahlil Gibran
  



       
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
_______________________________________________
dmirror3 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed


       
---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
Check out fitting  gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

From Nt788 at aol.com  Wed Sep 12 14:42:08 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:42:08 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR- -ABOUT OUR  Border
Message-ID: <c91.15aa44bc.3419a920@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/11/2007 8:23:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com writes:

Please  understand that I would not make this offer if I felt the movie was
>  overtly Political!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It is about the survival of this  great
country!!!!!!!!!!



no borders is ok with me! jack



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From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Sep 12 15:33:23 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:33:23 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA at NHRA museum
References: <000b01c7f576$a35cc320$34e3cd48@HomePC>
Message-ID: <009f01c7f584$8cb181c0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Thats the one
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pile,Chris" <zoombot at cox.net>
To: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA at NHRA museum


>    List & Dale -
> 
>    I notice the first car listed is Stu Hilborn's - is this Lattin's
> replica?
> 
>    Thanks! - Chris Pile aka aircap
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Wed Sep 12 17:52:24 2007
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:52:24 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Is Don Biglow out there?
Message-ID: <23021845.1189641144384.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml11>

May be a redux: 
 If Don Biglow is on the BBS or anyone has his email address, please ask him to drop me a line. An old racing  acquaintence of his from the 70's would like to hear from him.
Mark C 
at the edge of the Great Dismal Swamp

From karhu at california.com  Wed Sep 12 18:21:10 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:21:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] MAT-Team cracks over 200 mph... on ice!
References: <138788.56813.qm@web58006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003401c7f59b$fcdb1260$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

As a half-Finn, it's interesting on a couple of counts.....But, I don't
think 321.65 km/hr qualifies as cracking 200mph.  It doesn't miss by
much, but it is shy a small fraction of a mph according to my calc.
I wonder how they got a smooth course--road grader?  The edges look
pretty rough...
Benn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dale Krumheuer" <dmirror3 at yahoo.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] MAT-Team cracks over 200 mph... on ice!


> and here it is on youtube;
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=NCXkaR_6BS4
>
> Dale Krumheuer <dmirror3 at yahoo.com> wrote: "Oulu, Finland - A Bentley
Continental GT, driven by four-times                        World Rally
Champion Juha Kankkunen, smashed the world ice
speed record, reaching an average speed of 321.65km/h on
frozen sea off the coast of Finland."

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep 13 06:42:20 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:42:20 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 10 Year Anniversary of the Breaking of the World Land
 Speed Record - Press Release
Message-ID: <000501c7f603$86fd4af0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.earthtimes.org:80/articles/show/news_press_release,176037.shtml

nice reunion and test for Ed Shadle
dale
going to work on 57 chev today

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep 13 06:49:16 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:49:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] =?iso-8859-1?q?The_Jalopy_Journal_=BB_Blog_Archive_?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=BB_The_Mabee_Special?=
Message-ID: <000501c7f604$7ea0d4c0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.jalopyjournal.com:80/?p=1248

great story about what racing is all about
dale
happy in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep 13 06:55:05 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:55:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Women Set Records At Bonneville: Best times on a Gold
 Wing and Panhead!
Message-ID: <000501c7f605$4e9a1a60$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.womenridersnow.com:80/PublicFiles/Departmentviewer.asp?ArticleID=7
08

another great story of someone running for the first time and setting a
record
dale
up in pahrump must be 60-70 outside on air  on truck this morning

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Sep 13 13:59:00 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:59:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non LSR  but racing
Message-ID: <46E99684.9060604@charter.net>

I see McLaren just got fined 100 million for spying on Ferrari. NASCAR 
and F1 sure do take the fun out of racing.    LOL
Doug Odom in big ditch

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Sep 13 16:14:30 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:14:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
Message-ID: <001e01c7f653$78ab01e0$6501a8c0@S>

21st century engine technology..HELP!!!!

Yes, I know that it got started sometime back in the 1980's when some brainiac
automotive engineer discovered computer chips.  Now I'm being dragged kicking
and screaming into that world.  I tried to postpone the inevitable when I
bought a new Toyota Tacoma pickup (with the yellow canoe on top) in 2000.  My
rationale was "Now I have a reliable new truck I don't have to mess with
except periodic changes of fluids and filters."  Ha!! The first sign was the
illumination of the "check engine" light a couple of months ago at 87K miles.
So I said "Self.Now is time to go get one of those code readers I've been
hearing about and figure out how to use it".

"P302"  #2 cylinder misfire"

OK, time for new spark plugs.  But first the challenge of finding the
sparkplugs on this modern 4 banger smog engine.  Where are the sparkplug
wires?  Etc, etc.  Fast forward to this morning when I paid someone to do a
compression test because I'd run out of obvious things to check.  BAD NEWS.
#1,2,3, 185 to 190;  #2 120.  A NEW TRUCK HAS JUST BECOME AN OLD TRUCK!

But I don't want to buy a new truck.  No one makes anything like my little Toy
anymore.  All the pickups available now have been fed steroids for the last 7
years and get worse mileage.  So I've got to learn how this thing works so I
can fix it from now on whenever some mechanic hands me a 4 figure estimate for
a day's work and a few parts.

Which brings me to my question..Any of you guys (or women) know of a good book
or online discussion of how modern engines work?  Specifically for old geezers
who already understand 1960's engine technology pretty well but have gone into
a state of de Nile like me.

Ed Weldon  (under the hood of my truck where the sun don't shine today)

And by the way, any of you guys that want to tell me what I've done wrong that
I just paid $165 (and that's just the beginning) to learn;  realize that I
have pictures of most of you taken at the Salt and elseware and a good supply
of sharp pins.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Sep 13 17:57:48 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:57:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
References: <001e01c7f653$78ab01e0$6501a8c0@S> <46E9BF94.4080205@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c7f661$e7dab840$6501a8c0@S>

Bryan-- thanks for the tips.  I found the service manuals on ebay, buy it
now prices for original books and CD, $150 and $40 respectively.  I'm
debating which way to go. I may well spend an evening searching the online
card catalogs of some of the local libraries.  But I suspect the travel and
the cost to photocopy pages may eat up a significant part of the money I'd
spend for the CD.
Redoing the compression check as you suggest I think will tell me something.
And I'm thinking if I take the valve cover off, go buy the special valve
adjusting tool setup and an assortmant of shims (which I'll need in the
future anyway) and do some leakdown testing at various valve clearances on
the #2 cylinder I may get a better handle on the problem that may suggest a
quick fix rather than a complete head rebuild.
All to often in this life I've approached a repair with a preconceived
notion of the cause only to find absolutely no evidence of the damage once I
got everything apart.  And at that point the subtle evidence traces are all
too often gone.
Thanks again....Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "List Land Speed"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck


>
> Ed,
> The first thing I would do in find out if there is a library
> that has the factory shop manuals available. Probably 2
> volumes.
> Find out how to pull the plugs, usually an amazingly difficult
> job on modern engines.
> Then check the compression again to determine if it is rings or
> valves/head gasket -- you know the old compression before adding
> oil to the cylinders and after.
> The head gasket is the most likely source of the problem. My son
> has 285,000 on his old 1989 Toyota PU and it just passed Smog.
> A new clutch and water pump is all that has been done.
> Searching the Internet will provide a lot of good information Ed.
> Hope that helps,  Bryan

From mactem at mebtel.net  Thu Sep 13 18:11:11 2007
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:11:11 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
Message-ID: <002201c7f663$c23f6c00$0200a8c0@brightstar>

Ed,
Try looking online for Toyota forums.  There are many to cover the
different vehicles and a few that cover Toyota in general.  There are
many members of the forums that have run into any problem that trucks
and cars can have. I'm on a Celica and a MR 2 list and its great.   But,
didn't you mention having a 4G63 turbo motor in your race car? 
David

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Sep 13 18:37:22 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:37:22 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
References: <001e01c7f653$78ab01e0$6501a8c0@S>
	<46E9BF94.4080205@wildblue.net> <003c01c7f661$e7dab840$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <019001c7f667$6ac2bc80$6401a8c0@Glens>

Ed
Try the library, some times they still have them
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>; "List Land Speed" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck


> Bryan-- thanks for the tips.  I found the service manuals on ebay, buy it
> now prices for original books and CD, $150 and $40 respectively.  I'm
> debating which way to go. I may well spend an evening searching the online
> card catalogs of some of the local libraries.  But I suspect the travel 
> and
> the cost to photocopy pages may eat up a significant part of the money I'd
> spend for the CD.
> Redoing the compression check as you suggest I think will tell me 
> something.
> And I'm thinking if I take the valve cover off, go buy the special valve
> adjusting tool setup and an assortmant of shims (which I'll need in the
> future anyway) and do some leakdown testing at various valve clearances on
> the #2 cylinder I may get a better handle on the problem that may suggest 
> a
> quick fix rather than a complete head rebuild.
> All to often in this life I've approached a repair with a preconceived
> notion of the cause only to find absolutely no evidence of the damage once 
> I
> got everything apart.  And at that point the subtle evidence traces are 
> all
> too often gone.
> Thanks again....Ed
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
> To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; "List Land Speed"
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
>
>
>>
>> Ed,
>> The first thing I would do in find out if there is a library
>> that has the factory shop manuals available. Probably 2
>> volumes.
>> Find out how to pull the plugs, usually an amazingly difficult
>> job on modern engines.
>> Then check the compression again to determine if it is rings or
>> valves/head gasket -- you know the old compression before adding
>> oil to the cylinders and after.
>> The head gasket is the most likely source of the problem. My son
>> has 285,000 on his old 1989 Toyota PU and it just passed Smog.
>> A new clutch and water pump is all that has been done.
>> Searching the Internet will provide a lot of good information Ed.
>> Hope that helps,  Bryan
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 19:25:08 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:25:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
In-Reply-To: <002201c7f663$c23f6c00$0200a8c0@brightstar>
References: <002201c7f663$c23f6c00$0200a8c0@brightstar>
Message-ID: <8D2285BA-8E53-4778-8661-19D9CD6AC310@gmail.com>

On Sep 13, 2007, at 5:11 PM, Mobley-Anderson wrote:

> Ed,
> Try looking online for Toyota forums.  There are many to cover the
> different vehicles and a few that cover Toyota in general.  There are
> many members of the forums that have run into any problem that trucks
> and cars can have. I'm on a Celica and a MR 2 list and its great.    
> But,
> didn't you mention having a 4G63 turbo motor in your race car?
> David

David- 4G63 is a mitsubishi motor.

Ed- Go with the CD, it takes up less space, and you can print out the  
specific sections you need, take them out the the engine bay, and not  
care if they get all greased out... I would suggest not only doing a  
compression test, but a leakdown test as well (oh, you mentioned that  
in another message)... I have a feeling you're going to find bad  
rings is your issue. I had an old Tercel (a '91) that had a blown  
head gasket when I got it (and MANY miles on the motor after the  
gasket went, they just kept filling the water) and once I redid the  
head gasket I found 1,2, and 4 all got 135psi and #3 had 90. Add a  
little oil to the cylinder, and all of a sudden they all held 135. I  
ran it for a year like that before I had to smog it, and it was time  
for a new car... (cause the Tercel had cost me a total of $500 at  
this point, and getting to pass smog was going to require more than  
that)

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Fri Sep 14 05:59:05 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 04:59:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr (Where in India would you try for a lsr
	record?)
Message-ID: <000701c7f6c6$a685c2d0$6400a8c0@Dale>

A Bugatti Veyron is going to try to better there 407.5 KPH lsr record , in
India , at the end of Sept 2007 , with Castrol motor oil as event sponsor.
Where in India ??

dale
still working on 57 chev in pahrump

From Nt788 at aol.com  Fri Sep 14 08:52:00 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:52:00 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
Message-ID: <c52.1fd5e641.341bfa10@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/13/2007 3:14:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
23.weldon at comcast.net writes:

But I  don't want to buy a new truck.  No one makes anything like my little  
Toy
anymore.  All the pickups available now have been fed  steroids     
My rusty 68 Chev camper,(Rommel) when something fell off, if I found  it I 
put it back. My new Dodge Sprinter's motor light went on and the turbo  quit.I 
found I could turn the ign off and on and get power back,every few  miles.      
" Maybe they're doing it for us"  Jack

My                                         



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From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Sep 14 11:30:08 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:30:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
References: <002201c7f663$c23f6c00$0200a8c0@brightstar>
Message-ID: <002d01c7f6f4$e69b2990$6501a8c0@S>

David, Glen and Jon -- Thanks for your comments and advice--
Replying individually:
David -- The online forums are very helpful. Still wading through them.  I
found what sounds like my problem, loss of valve lash and the resultant
burning of exhaust valves is a rare but known problem with these trucks.
That seems to be the most likely diagnosis at this point.  I've got time to
do a good amount of further investigation before tearing down since I have
alternative daily drivers.  My LSR street roadster project will be starting
out with an SBC "D" motor as a "mule" for shakedown and having fun while I
build a serious (read "expensive" XX motor.)
Glen -- Thanks for the library tip.  A bit of internet searching of card
catalogs in local NorCal Bay Area Libraries shows mostly aftermarket books
like the Haynes book I already have, Chilton's and others.  Seems to me that
factory service manuals have just gotten too pricey for public libraries to
invest in the hundreds of books they'd have to buy each year to keep up.
The Haynes book I have does cover the subject but the pictures are poor
quality and they tend to edit out and combine info to the point where I
don't completely trust it for this project.
Jon-- I'm going for a CD first.  Hopfully working my way through the pages
won't be too slow and painstaking on the computer to find what I want.  Once
there it's easy for me to print a few pages; take them over to my favorite
easy chair; chase Clemmie, dachshund queen of the house; and settle down for
a read.  A leakdown test is part of the program; and as soon as I find the
special tool for changing the Toyota valve shims I'll go through that part
and try see just how badly I might have hurt any of the 4 (2 would have been
enough for me) valves on that cylnder and whether I can spot a difference
with successive leakdown tests after running the engine a bit.
Thanks again, guys,  Ed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Sep 14 11:38:25 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:38:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
References: <c52.1fd5e641.341bfa10@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c7f6f6$11aac360$6501a8c0@S>

Jack-- No "maybe's" about it.  I'm not going to let this truck, it's maker and
their shills own me for very long.  They won't make the product I want.  I
hope I have the patience to build what I want for myself and be done worrying
about repair estimates that run to 4 figures.
Ed
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Nt788 at aol.com
  To: 23.weldon at comcast.net ; land-speed at autox.team.net
  Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck


  In a message dated 9/13/2007 3:14:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
23.weldon at comcast.net writes:
    But I don't want to buy a new truck.  No one makes anything like my little
Toy
    anymore.  All the pickups available now have been fed steroids
  My rusty 68 Chev camper,(Rommel) when something fell off, if I found it I
put it back. My new Dodge Sprinter's motor light went on and the turbo quit.I
found I could turn the ign off and on and get power back,every few miles.
" Maybe they're doing it for us" Jack
                                                                             
                                                                             
                                                                             
                                                                             
                                                                             
                                                                        My





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
  See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

From karhu at california.com  Fri Sep 14 12:09:40 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:09:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
References: <002201c7f663$c23f6c00$0200a8c0@brightstar>
	<002d01c7f6f4$e69b2990$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <021201c7f6fa$6b75fd20$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

Ed, if the special tool you refer to is to collapse the valve springs on
a DOHC motor (dunno if that's what you have), I made one that worked
quite well from a cheap 6" Channellock knockoff by shortening the jaws.
More details if you need 'em.
Benn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "'LSR'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck


> David, Glen and Jon -- Thanks for your comments and advice--
> Replying individually:
> David -- The online forums are very helpful. Still wading through
them.  I
> found what sounds like my problem, loss of valve lash and the
resultant
> burning of exhaust valves is a rare but known problem with these
trucks.
> That seems to be the most likely diagnosis at this point.  I've got
time to
> do a good amount of further investigation before tearing down since I
have
> alternative daily drivers.  My LSR street roadster project will be
starting
> out with an SBC "D" motor as a "mule" for shakedown and having fun
while I
> build a serious (read "expensive" XX motor.)
> Glen -- Thanks for the library tip.  A bit of internet searching of
card
> catalogs in local NorCal Bay Area Libraries shows mostly aftermarket
books
> like the Haynes book I already have, Chilton's and others.  Seems to
me that
> factory service manuals have just gotten too pricey for public
libraries to
> invest in the hundreds of books they'd have to buy each year to keep
up.
> The Haynes book I have does cover the subject but the pictures are
poor
> quality and they tend to edit out and combine info to the point where
I
> don't completely trust it for this project.
> Jon-- I'm going for a CD first.  Hopfully working my way through the
pages
> won't be too slow and painstaking on the computer to find what I want.
Once
> there it's easy for me to print a few pages; take them over to my
favorite
> easy chair; chase Clemmie, dachshund queen of the house; and settle
down for
> a read.  A leakdown test is part of the program; and as soon as I find
the
> special tool for changing the Toyota valve shims I'll go through that
part
> and try see just how badly I might have hurt any of the 4 (2 would
have been
> enough for me) valves on that cylnder and whether I can spot a
difference
> with successive leakdown tests after running the engine a bit.
> Thanks again, guys,  Ed
> _______________________________________________
> karhu at california.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From john at engr.wisc.edu  Fri Sep 14 12:17:41 2007
From: john at engr.wisc.edu (john robinson)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:17:41 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] (NON-lsr) New truck-->Old truck
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070914131100.021fedf0@cae.wisc.edu>

so spending enough money for rebuilding an engine bothers you? a days work 
and a few parts? you expect that the U.S. mechanic who is doing the work is 
working for $3.75 an hour? and paying for health benefits out of his pay 
too...

           John Robinson, Mechanician
   Mechanical Engineering University of Wisconsin
                 1513 University Ave.
                  Madison, Wi. 53706
                     608-262-3606
            Current World Land Speed Record Holder
                  Bonneville Salt Flats
                      H/GCC 92 cu.in. 1980 Dodge Colt
                  144.396 MPH set 2000
         Antarctic Ice Driller 2002-03
         Greenland Ice Driller 2006 

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Fri Sep 14 18:22:49 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:22:49 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Spying/non LSR
Message-ID: <d31.15b4577a.341c7fd9@aol.com>

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Return-path: <BWANA343 at aol.com>
From: BWANA343 at aol.com
Full-name: BWANA343
Message-ID: <c32.16639b44.341c7f04 at aol.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:19:16 EDT
Subject: Spying/non LSR
To: BWANA343 at aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5041
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

This kind of makes the football NE Patriots spying and subsequent fine  seem 
downright trivial.
Funny part is they didn't penalize the drivers any points,though they  
benefitted as much as McLaren
 
_http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/9/6767.html_ 
(http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/9/6767.html) 
 
Also amazing how there is NO coverage of F1 news here...But if Dale Jr gets  
a zit........
Bob W
 
 



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From Want1937hd at aol.com  Fri Sep 14 20:54:54 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:54:54 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Spying/non LSR
Message-ID: <cbc.1b06ff7c.341ca37e@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/14/07 8:23:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BWANA343 at aol.com 
writes:

Also amazing how there is NO coverage of F1 news here...But if Dale Jr gets  
a zit........
Bob W

Tony Stewart got a Toyota ............... Bob in connecticut



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From wmtsmith at cox.net  Fri Sep 14 22:10:24 2007
From: wmtsmith at cox.net (Wm. T. Smith)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:10:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Spying/non LSR
In-Reply-To: <cbc.1b06ff7c.341ca37e@aol.com>
References: <cbc.1b06ff7c.341ca37e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5A2A4944BC1B44879B07E977D3F18AB2@LMS>

Yeah and JGR---lost a VERY loyal 12 year fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky 
AA/_ L  2211
> 
> Tony Stewart got a Toyota ............... Bob in connecticut

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 15 00:18:56 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 06:18:56 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Spying/   non LSR
In-Reply-To: <5A2A4944BC1B44879B07E977D3F18AB2@LMS>
References: <cbc.1b06ff7c.341ca37e@aol.com>
	<5A2A4944BC1B44879B07E977D3F18AB2@LMS>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W9442141170550F557AB83D9BD0@phx.gbl>

    you and me  both Sparky ...   "         VULGAS VULT DECEPI  ( the (common)
people wish to be deceived )   "   cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway - I'm announcing Sat'dy nite

  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one



     ------------------------------------- oooo
--------------------------------------

    Wise words from the ancients especially in light of today's 'troubles' :

       VULGAS VULT DECEPI  ( the (common) people wish to be deceived )

                                                                         -Pha
edrus

ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

> From: wmtsmith at cox.net
> To: Want1937hd at aol.com; BWANA343 at aol.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:10:24 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fwd: Spying/non LSR
>
    Yeah and JGR---lost a VERY loyal 12 year fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
       Sparky   AA/_ L  2211



 Tony Stewart got a Toyota ............... Bob in connecticut

_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From ecpurinton at wildblue.net  Sat Sep 15 08:27:36 2007
From: ecpurinton at wildblue.net (Ed Purinton)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:27:36 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Spying-Non LSR
Message-ID: <46EBEBD8.8070300@wildblue.net>

FWIW, NA$CAR soured me when they $old out their mother of traditional 
events Darlington Labor Day weekend.  For me 'bout like subbing rice 
pudding for apple pie..............  Some interest still there but not 
near as strong now.  LSR is tops by a wider margin now.

                                             Ed Purinton

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Sep 15 08:33:52 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 08:33:52 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Spying-Non LSR
References: <46EBEBD8.8070300@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <002601c7f7a5$70830e10$6401a8c0@Glens>

I hardly ever watch a Nascar race, or F1, it don't give out what real racing 
was before the big dollar took it over. Going to a Nascar race as a 
spectator costs big bucks to just park and get in.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Purinton" <ecpurinton at wildblue.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Spying-Non LSR


> FWIW, NA$CAR soured me when they $old out their mother of traditional
> events Darlington Labor Day weekend.  For me 'bout like subbing rice
> pudding for apple pie..............  Some interest still there but not
> near as strong now.  LSR is tops by a wider margin now.
>
>                                             Ed Purinton
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Sep 15 10:11:30 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:11:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non-lsr Shelby sets Guinness world speed record 255.83
 Tri-City Herald: Mid-Columbia news
Message-ID: <000501c7f7b3$145dd990$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/tch/local/story/9301484p-9215967c.html

interesting technology
dale
on way to Vegas today in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Sep 15 10:14:10 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:14:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non-lsr Carr on lsr racing AMAFlatTrack.com: Official
 website of the AMA Flat Track Championship
Message-ID: <000501c7f7b3$733d6ac0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.amaflattrack.com:80/article.php?UID=Eg1SVUKJhLojiubhtEI38TytE4K8K3
&sc=1074&aid=10563

dale
out in pahrump,nv

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Sep 15 13:37:41 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:37:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non-lsr Shelby sets Guinness world speed record
 255.83 Tri-City Herald: Mid-Columbia news
In-Reply-To: <000501c7f7b3$145dd990$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7f7b3$145dd990$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <46EC3485.8000301@mayfco.com>

Dale H Pulju wrote:

>http://www.tri-cityherald.com/tch/local/story/9301484p-9215967c.html
>
>interesting technology
>dale
>on way to Vegas today in pahrump
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>
>
>
>  
>
What is interessting is that they used GPS to determine speed. Nor did 
it state that it was over a given trap distance. I suspect that this 
puppy hit it's top speed and then decelerated. I would like to see this 
and the bug on the salt flats. I suspect that going for a full mile or 
more at full boogie would be hard for either of them to do. Thoughts? 
Anybody on the list witness this?

mayf

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 15 14:12:28 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 20:12:28 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCABS  -No LSR  Dave
In-Reply-To: <46EBEBD8.8070300@wildblue.net>
References: <46EBEBD8.8070300@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W24F22A7A3C18D416B0B458D9BD0@phx.gbl>

    Ed,..  All;

   I haven't watched a NASCAB race since the 1990 Daytona 500

    see,..  I like REAL racing, not disneyworld makabelieve horsepuckle thats
an embarrassment to real racers.  Just LOOK where Tony Stewart spends HIS
money,.. and what he does on his 'time' off.

When he's 'working' he's just  'milkin' cows'    ;-)   ha  ha  ha    - ha  ha
ha!

  Sprint Cars, Midgets, "Silver Crown Cars", and Speedway Bike racing is where
its AT.
                             PURE adrenaline racing at its very finest...

Like I allas say;

'wise words from the ancients; especially in light of today's ' NASCAR
RACING' :

   VULGAS VULT DECEPI    (the (common) people wish to be deceived )
       - Phaedrus

  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

      --- who as a teen, 'was' a NASCAR Mechanic" in 1964
            - in order to be on a local stockcar team at Fonda Speedway
                      - in central NY   -and still has his member pin to prove
it...

          Back when men were men and 'stock cars' were made from real stock
cars.



     ------------------------------------- oooo
--------------------------------------

> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:27:36 -0400
> From: ecpurinton at wildblue.net
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Spying-Non LSR
>
> FWIW, NA$CAR soured me when they $old out their mother of traditional
> events Darlington Labor Day weekend.  For me 'bout like subbing rice
> pudding for apple pie..............  Some interest still there but not
> near as strong now.  LSR is tops by a wider margin now.
>
>                                              Ed Purinton

_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline

From zoombot at cox.net  Sat Sep 15 16:09:47 2007
From: zoombot at cox.net (Pile,Chris)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 16:09:47 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Spying/NON-LSR
Message-ID: <002e01c7f7e5$21285010$34e3cd48@HomePC>

    List & Bob -

    Why should F1 get coverage here?
    As far as the media goes - F1 doesn't spend any money here. Guess there's
not any market to report to, right?

    If you want F1 coverage, read AutoWeek.

    - Chris Pile aka aircap

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 15 23:55:06 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 05:55:06 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] speedway bikes, adreneline, and  -No LSR    Dave
In-Reply-To: <001b01c7f7f3$3cfe97a0$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <46EBEBD8.8070300@wildblue.net>
	<BAY135-W24F22A7A3C18D416B0B458D9BD0@phx.gbl>
	<001b01c7f7f3$3cfe97a0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W181338EB591423D9610CA3D9BE0@phx.gbl>

Hi Dale... go to   www.speedwaybikes.com   to look for closest track.

I'm gonna guess for you,  it would be 'Fast Friday's' in Auburn Ca...

also for streaming video of it go to

 http://www.xtremespeedwayaction.com/2007/2007webpage2/xsahome.html

 -based and shot from So. Cal mostly  -though I've been feeding them some NY
racing fotos, and will again soon as I took about 20 -25 shots tonight at
Champion Speedway where I announced.  I just got home @ 12:45 from it... its
about 65 miles SW of where I live...   GREAT Stuff!




  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2325 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
   and never more than a few feet from a cold one

ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

> From: d.pulju at pahrump.com
> To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCABS  -No LSR  Dave
> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 16:50:44 -0700
>
> where do I see Speedway Bike racing?

       > dale  > home from Vegas in pahrump


cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc


> From: "Doug Anderson" <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>
> To: <ecpurinton at wildblue.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NASCABS -No LSR Dave
>
>
> >    Ed,..  All;
> >
> >   I haven't watched a NASCAB race since the 1990 Daytona 500
> >
> >    see,..  I like REAL racing, not disneyworld makabelieve horsepuckle
> > thats an embarrassment to real racers.  Just LOOK where Tony Stewart
spends HIS money,.. and what he does on his 'time' off.
> >
> > When he's 'working' he's just  'milkin' cows'    ;-)   ha  ha  ha    - ha
ha ha!
> >
> >  Sprint Cars, Midgets, "Silver Crown Cars", and Speedway Bike racing is
> > where its AT. PURE adrenaline racing at its very finest...
> >
> > Like I allas say;
> >

> >   VULGAS VULT DECEPI    (the (common) people wish to be deceived )
> >       - Phaedrus
> >
> >  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,
> >
> >      --- who as a teen, 'was' a NASCAR Mechanic" in 1964
> >            - in order to be on a local stockcar team at Fonda Speedway
> >                      - in central NY   -and still has his member pin to
prove it...
> >
> >          Back when men were men and 'stock cars' were made from real stock
cars.

_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Sep 16 05:35:46 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:35:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non-tech about people) HONDATA Breaks Four Landspeed
 Records In An RSX Type-S - Honda Civic News - Honda Civic Forum
Message-ID: <000501c7f855$b973a160$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.civicforums.com:80/forums/192-honda-civic-news/299860-hondata-brea
ks-four-landspeed-records-rsx-type-s.html

dale
getting ready for f1 race in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Sep 16 05:41:48 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:41:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (about people with engine info) 50ccs: 50cc Land Speed
	Records
Message-ID: <000501c7f856$911be9b0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://50ccs.blogspot.com:80/2007/09/50cc-land-speed-records.html

interesting the many different engine combos

dale
still waiting for f1 to start in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Sep 16 05:56:53 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:56:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (about people with engine info) 50ccs: 50cc Land
 SpeedRecords
References: <000501c7f856$911be9b0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <001f01c7f858$ac7e5740$6400a8c0@Dale>

if you go to (here) at end of article it gets real techie and shows the 
whole build on the car ( motorcycle)
dale
still dark in pahrump

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:41 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] (about people with engine info) 50ccs: 50cc Land 
SpeedRecords


> http://50ccs.blogspot.com:80/2007/09/50cc-land-speed-records.html
>
> interesting the many different engine combos
>
> dale
> still waiting for f1 to start in pahrump
> _______________________________________________
> d.pulju at pahrump.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Sep 16 09:18:34 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:18:34 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] non LSR  but racing
Message-ID: <091620071518.28069.46ED494A000411DF00006DA52205889116CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Just another reason to enjoy land-speed racing.

The NASCAR car that spun yesterday may have set a record for the number of revolutions in a spin.  I heard up to eight.  

Didn't do a "Coddington" however.  That spin was fun to watch ... thanks to whoever possted that YouTube link.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: DougOdom <dlodom at charter.net>
> I see McLaren just got fined 100 million for spying on Ferrari. NASCAR 
> and F1 sure do take the fun out of racing.    LOL
> Doug Odom in big ditch
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Sep 16 09:27:47 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:27:47 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Spying/NON-LSR
References: <002e01c7f7e5$21285010$34e3cd48@HomePC>
Message-ID: <003101c7f876$231449b0$6501a8c0@ZTxp>

www.f1/com (mostly lame, but has some nice features.)
www.speedtv.com

I suppose there are others.

FWIW, IMO . . . Looks like the nascar hijinx may get them some more viewers 
. . . .?

David, remembers when the tires were skinny and the drivers were fat.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pile,Chris" <zoombot at cox.net>
To: "Land Speed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:09 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Spying/NON-LSR


>    List & Bob -
>
>    Why should F1 get coverage here?
>    As far as the media goes - F1 doesn't spend any money here. Guess 
> there's
> not any market to report to, right?
>
>    If you want F1 coverage, read AutoWeek.
>
>    - Chris Pile aka aircap
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Sep 16 09:31:47 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 09:31:47 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Spying-Non LSR
References: <46EBEBD8.8070300@wildblue.net>
	<002601c7f7a5$70830e10$6401a8c0@Glens> <46ECD539.40605@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <004901c7f876$b23e1170$6401a8c0@Glens>

I usually watch the race at Sonoma road course. That's pretty much it 
though.
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: <ecpurinton at wildblue.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Spying-Non LSR


>
> Same here Glenn.
>
> The last exciting, real, NASCAR race I watched ran with ZERO yellow flags.
> The 1985 Talladega spring race.
> Bill Elliot started on the pole but had to pit to get an oil fitting 
> tightened.
> He came out almost two laps down and WITHOUT THE HELP of a yellow flag won
> the race........ WITHOUT THE HELP of a yellow flag !!!!
>
> Fortunately I was a home alone so I didn't scare my wife and kids.
>
> Nothing I've seen in Pro Auto racing that could even make 2-10 in that 
> category.
> But even that is # 3.
> #1. Standing at the 5 when Al went by at 432.
> #2. At Black Rock watching Andy Green go by at 762.
> #3. Bill Elliot lap the field under the green 1.9 times
> #4 - #10 blank it this time
>
> All my opinions, of course,
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Glen Barrett wrote:
>> I hardly ever watch a Nascar race, or F1, it don't give out what real 
>> racing was before the big dollar took it over. Going to a Nascar race as 
>> a spectator costs big bucks to just park and get in.
>> Glen

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Sep 16 11:46:32 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:46:32 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
Message-ID: <006301c7f889$856623a0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Glad to see USFRA got their meet off and without rain. Dick Clark had top
speed at 308 mph. results not posted at this time. This meet is tough to get
off this time of year and with the rain prior to speed week, the Bub meet and
this meet all running within weeks of each other the salt took a lot runs
basically in the same area. I heard the FIA meet was cancelled as well due to
not enough length and dry salt to run on.

We can only hope that the world finals will have something to run on. There is
still plenty of interest. Rick Vesco got 3 runs in with the 444 car 1st built
by his Dad in 1957. Best speed with the Mod.B- 4 cyl. was 194 mph. This is the
50th anniversary for the car. It's been through many up grades over the years.
For some history log onto www.teamvesco.com
Glen

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Sep 16 12:52:40 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:52:40 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
References: <006301c7f889$856623a0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <000e01c7f892$c1ffd0f0$6501a8c0@ZTxp>

The Vesco 444 is truly beautiful
http://images27.fotki.com/v1022/photos/4/43175/5396525/wos2007069-vi.jpg?1189968556

Salt condition was "a little different" but man managed records anyway.

Missed seeing some folks, but it was good seeing folks that did show.

Cheers,

David in Durango


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:46 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS


> Glad to see USFRA got their meet off and without rain. Dick Clark had top
> speed at 308 mph. results not posted at this time. This meet is tough to 
> get
> off this time of year and with the rain prior to speed week, the Bub meet 
> and
> this meet all running within weeks of each other the salt took a lot runs
> basically in the same area. I heard the FIA meet was cancelled as well due 
> to
> not enough length and dry salt to run on.
>
> We can only hope that the world finals will have something to run on. 
> There is
> still plenty of interest. Rick Vesco got 3 runs in with the 444 car 1st 
> built
> by his Dad in 1957. Best speed with the Mod.B- 4 cyl. was 194 mph. This is 
> the
> 50th anniversary for the car. It's been through many up grades over the 
> years.
> For some history log onto www.teamvesco.com
> Glen
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Sep 16 12:58:02 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (David in Durango)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:58:02 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
References: <006301c7f889$856623a0$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<000e01c7f892$c1ffd0f0$6501a8c0@ZTxp>
Message-ID: <000601c7f893$81cbb340$6501a8c0@ZTxp>

should read "many managed records"

I'm going back to my cave.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David in Durango" <adin at frontier.net>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "landspeed at autox.team.net" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] WOS


> The Vesco 444 is truly beautiful
> http://images27.fotki.com/v1022/photos/4/43175/5396525/wos2007069-vi.jpg?1189968556
>
> Salt condition was "a little different" but man managed records anyway.
>
> Missed seeing some folks, but it was good seeing folks that did show.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David in Durango
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:46 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
>
>
>> Glad to see USFRA got their meet off and without rain. Dick Clark had top
>> speed at 308 mph. results not posted at this time. This meet is tough to
>> get
>> off this time of year and with the rain prior to speed week, the Bub meet
>> and
>> this meet all running within weeks of each other the salt took a lot runs
>> basically in the same area. I heard the FIA meet was cancelled as well 
>> due
>> to
>> not enough length and dry salt to run on.
>>
>> We can only hope that the world finals will have something to run on.
>> There is
>> still plenty of interest. Rick Vesco got 3 runs in with the 444 car 1st
>> built
>> by his Dad in 1957. Best speed with the Mod.B- 4 cyl. was 194 mph. This 
>> is
>> the
>> 50th anniversary for the car. It's been through many up grades over the
>> years.
>> For some history log onto www.teamvesco.com
>> Glen
>> _______________________________________________
>> adin at frontier.net
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sun Sep 16 13:22:33 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:22:33 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Homebuilt turbine car/non LSR
Message-ID: <d59.141a94ce.341edc79@aol.com>

Listage,  
I met this guy today at a local car show in nearby Peekskill, NY. We  BS'd 
about our commonality in choosing Hondas as HotRods, mine because of Aero,  his 
is because he's cheap. Got a feeling I might be hanging out with him a  lot, 
especially if I run out of motors.
Bob W 
 
 
 
_http://www.turbinefun.com/TurbinePoweredHondaCRX.asp_ 
(http://www.turbinefun.com/TurbinePoweredHondaCRX.asp) 





************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Sep 16 19:24:50 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 01:24:50 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
Message-ID: <091720070124.1399.46EDD76200079EBA000005772206424413CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

As of Saturday morning there were seventeen new records.  The vehicles in impound ran after that list was assembled.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "David in Durango" <adin at frontier.net>
> should read "many managed records"
> 
> I'm going back to my cave.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David in Durango" <adin at frontier.net>
> To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "landspeed at autox.team.net" 
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 2:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] WOS
> 
> 
> > The Vesco 444 is truly beautiful
> > 
> http://images27.fotki.com/v1022/photos/4/43175/5396525/wos2007069-vi.jpg?1189968
> 556
> >
> > Salt condition was "a little different" but man managed records anyway.
> >
> > Missed seeing some folks, but it was good seeing folks that did show.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > David in Durango
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> > To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:46 PM
> > Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
> >
> >
> >> Glad to see USFRA got their meet off and without rain. Dick Clark had top
> >> speed at 308 mph. results not posted at this time. This meet is tough to
> >> get
> >> off this time of year and with the rain prior to speed week, the Bub meet
> >> and
> >> this meet all running within weeks of each other the salt took a lot runs
> >> basically in the same area. I heard the FIA meet was cancelled as well 
> >> due
> >> to
> >> not enough length and dry salt to run on.
> >>
> >> We can only hope that the world finals will have something to run on.
> >> There is
> >> still plenty of interest. Rick Vesco got 3 runs in with the 444 car 1st
> >> built
> >> by his Dad in 1957. Best speed with the Mod.B- 4 cyl. was 194 mph. This 
> >> is
> >> the
> >> 50th anniversary for the car. It's been through many up grades over the
> >> years.
> >> For some history log onto www.teamvesco.com
> >> Glen
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> adin at frontier.net
> >>
> >> Land-speed mailing list
> >>
> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> > _______________________________________________
> > adin at frontier.net
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Sep 16 19:31:53 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 01:31:53 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
Message-ID: <091720070131.11778.46EDD90900014A8400002E022206424413CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

As Rick was leaving on Saturday he told me this was the first time he had ever left the salt with that liner with a 4 cylinder engine in it that would still run.  Ken did a heck of a job building the engine.  The flathead full of his experimental parts ran well in his Falcon too.  He was passing out birthday cake while they loaded the car on the trailer.  Can't believe I've known Ken and Dorothy for around forty seven years.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Glad to see USFRA got their meet off and without rain. Dick Clark had top
> speed at 308 mph. results not posted at this time. This meet is tough to get
> off this time of year and with the rain prior to speed week, the Bub meet and
> this meet all running within weeks of each other the salt took a lot runs
> basically in the same area. I heard the FIA meet was cancelled as well due to
> not enough length and dry salt to run on.
> 
> We can only hope that the world finals will have something to run on. There is
> still plenty of interest. Rick Vesco got 3 runs in with the 444 car 1st built
> by his Dad in 1957. Best speed with the Mod.B- 4 cyl. was 194 mph. This is the
> 50th anniversary for the car. It's been through many up grades over the years.
> For some history log onto www.teamvesco.com
> Glen
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Sep 18 04:59:46 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 03:59:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] whatsa   goin on then ?
References: <BAY135-W20BF6B2B07FE4BAD65BF09D9B80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001101c7f9e3$0ac714a0$6501a8c0@S>

POSTWOS effect?
Tyranny of the honeydoos?
Old body complaining; need sleep?
Everybody Hush!!  Don't get Weldon started again........
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Doug Anderson
  Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:45 PM
  Subject: whatsa goin on then ?
  Gawsh  Have I fallen off the plant ?
  Has the LSR list gone down      -or what?

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Sep 18 06:50:56 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 05:50:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non tech non lsr?)Hydrogen Go-Kart Breaks Land Speed
	Record
Message-ID: <000501c7f9f2$8ec5fb90$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com:80/blog/2007/09/hydrogen-go-kart-breaks-land-s
peed.html

also green cars coming
dale
back from Vegas and dark in pahrump

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 07:02:02 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 06:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
Message-ID: <118806.62406.qm@web30713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What happened with Steve Fosset?  I've been away from the computer and any news source for a couiple of weeks.  Last I heard, his plane was missing in Nevada.
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas

       
---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 18 07:08:10 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:08:10 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] whatsa   goin on then ?
In-Reply-To: <001101c7f9e3$0ac714a0$6501a8c0@S>
References: <BAY135-W20BF6B2B07FE4BAD65BF09D9B80@phx.gbl>
	<001101c7f9e3$0ac714a0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W23AA8A5CE3611E042BC122D9B80@phx.gbl>

    Ha!     Hi Ed  -glad to know 'alls well'   wid da 'speed wacko' community
but...  whatever happened to your 'reverse rant' about 'the way things are'
from las' week  ...   I neva got one....    hmmmmmmmm                 ........
were you arrested  by 'the powers'  ?     ;-)


  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York,

  -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
   -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
   -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
   -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
   -2325 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
     and never more than a few feet from a cold one

  -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,
                       Cold Beer, Fast Cars, an' Warm Willin' Wimin'

  Speedway bikes, Harley D's and minibikes rode with equal joy,
   Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,
    Airship Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,

           -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they are

          -------------------------- oooo ---------------------------


From: 23.weldon at comcast.net

To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com
CC: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: whatsa   goin on then ?
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 03:59:46 -0700










POSTWOS effect?
Tyranny of the honeydoos?
Old body complaining; need sleep?
Everybody Hush!!  Don't get Weldon started
again.....







  From:
  Doug Anderson
  Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:45
  PM
  Subject: whatsa goin on then
  ?

Gawsh  Have I fallen off the plant ?

Has the LSR list gone
  down      -or what ?

_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 18 07:17:37 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:17:37 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
In-Reply-To: <118806.62406.qm@web30713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <118806.62406.qm@web30713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W97C2E2ACF54294AF0AE8AD9B80@phx.gbl>

    Still is...  I heard last night on NPR radio that the search is about
called off.

         - they said the area searched is 2X the size of New Joisey

    -just goes to show ya,  well I guess our lesson is that we better live
life large
       ... every day because you really do never know -do you ?

   the last So. NY Flat Track Race is Saturday night at the Square Deal
Raceway...
    lightenin' fast 1/4 mile.  wanna guess where I'll be ?


  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  still in exile in So. New York,


  -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,

  -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,

   -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway

   -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...

   -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway

   -2325 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats

     and never more than a few feet from a cold one



  -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,

                       Cold Beer, Fast Cars, an' Warm Willin' Wimin'



  Speedway bikes, Harley D's and minibikes rode with equal joy,

   Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,

    Airship Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,



           -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they are

          -------------------------- oooo ---------------------------


    Wise words from the ancients especially in light of today's 'troubles' :




    VULGAS VULT DECEPI     ( the (common) people wish to be deceived )



          -Phaedrus

ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
cccccccccccco

> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 06:02:02 -0700
> From: lsr_man at yahoo.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
>
> What happened with Steve Fosset?  I've been away from the computer and any
news source for a couple of weeks.  Last I heard, his plane was missing in
Nevada.
>
>   Dick J

>   In East Texas

_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep 18 07:50:32 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:50:32 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
Message-ID: <091820071350.25576.46EFD7A80007D636000063E82200734076CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

I was away from my computer for a week too but the search was a topic of conversation on the salt and around the truck stop Mexican restaurant/Red Flame gas grille/casino lunch counter/dinner table at WoS.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I heard the computer satellite search had turned up some other wrecks that had been overlooked.  Another theory was his plane had gone down in water ... anyone else hear that?

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Dick J <lsr_man at yahoo.com>
> What happened with Steve Fosset?  I've been away from the computer and any news 
> source for a couiple of weeks.  Last I heard, his plane was missing in Nevada.
>    
>   DickJ
>   In East Texas

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep 18 07:54:15 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:54:15 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] articles ... salt related
Message-ID: <091820071354.18188.46EFD887000E4B4B0000470C2206998499CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Nice coverage in the latest Hot Rod on the restoration of the Goldenrod.

Tactful Bonneville Racing News article on the Coddington disaster by Ron Christensen ... and the hole is still there.

Wes

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Sep 18 08:00:06 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:00:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's "hole"--salt related
In-Reply-To: <091820071354.18188.46EFD887000E4B4B0000470C2206998499CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
References: <091820071354.18188.46EFD887000E4B4B0000470C2206998499CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <AED89FCBB66E4CE98BF09C66EB25142B@LMS>

If he had any "CLASS" he would pickup the expense and oversee the repairing 
of that hole.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
>From 

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Sep 18 08:13:43 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:13:43 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
In-Reply-To: <BAY135-W97C2E2ACF54294AF0AE8AD9B80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <006701c7f9fe$1f4714f0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

He died of the dead Kennedy disease.. Thought physics and common sense
do not apply... It is what happens when you get too complacent and think
something that has inherent risks are no big deal.. If he filed a flight
plan he would have been found dead or alive right away. Saving the
taxpayers millions in the process. Kinda makes Coddingtons hole a little
on the low buck side eh??
Always politically incorrect but to the point..
Sometimes the real truth is not polite at times..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Doug Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:18 AM
To: Dick J; lsr list autox
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?


    Still is...  I heard last night on NPR radio that the search is
about called off.

         - they said the area searched is 2X the size of New Joisey

    -just goes to show ya,  well I guess our lesson is that we better
live life large
       ... every day because you really do never know -do you ?



No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.16/1004 - Release Date:
9/12/2007 5:22 PM

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Sep 18 08:19:28 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:19:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR Phoenix 65 degs.
Message-ID: <6FB722AFB5A240F699A32DD632086D92@LMS>

Doors open and AC OFF first time in months! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Sep 18 08:54:13 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:54:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
In-Reply-To: <118806.62406.qm@web30713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <118806.62406.qm@web30713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46EFE695.4090600@mayfco.com>

Been in jail with no newspapers, eh?

he went searching for dry lakebeds in Baron Hilton's small aerobatic 
place and crashed somewhere in Nevada or east calif.

mayf
Dick J wrote:

>What happened with Steve Fosset?  I've been away from the computer and any news source for a couiple of weeks.  Last I heard, his plane was missing in Nevada.
>   
>  DickJ
>  In East Texas
>
>       
>---------------------------------
>Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
>Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Sep 18 08:57:10 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:57:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
In-Reply-To: <091820071350.25576.46EFD7A80007D636000063E82200734076CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
References: <091820071350.25576.46EFD7A80007D636000063E82200734076CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46EFE746.7090006@mayfco.com>

If he went down in water, they are looking in the wrong place...no water 
in nevada, lol (hysterically)l.
mayf
wester6935 at comcast.net wrote:

>I was away from my computer for a week too but the search was a topic of conversation on the salt and around the truck stop Mexican restaurant/Red Flame gas grille/casino lunch counter/dinner table at WoS.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I heard the computer satellite search had turned up some other wrecks that had been overlooked.  Another theory was his plane had gone down in water ... anyone else hear that?
>
>Wes
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>From: Dick J <lsr_man at yahoo.com>
>  
>
>>What happened with Steve Fosset?  I've been away from the computer and any news 
>>source for a couiple of weeks.  Last I heard, his plane was missing in Nevada.
>>   
>>  DickJ
>>  In East Texas
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From karhu at california.com  Tue Sep 18 09:46:30 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:46:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
References: <091820071350.25576.46EFD7A80007D636000063E82200734076CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
	<46EFE746.7090006@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <000601c7fa0b$1529e580$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

Pyramid Lake, Rye Patch Reservoir, Walker Lake, all look pretty big on
my map...lotsa smaller reservoirs, too.
Benn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: <wester6935 at comcast.net>
Cc: "lsr list autox" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?


> If he went down in water, they are looking in the wrong place...no
water
> in nevada, lol (hysterically)l.
> mayf
> wester6935 at comcast.net wrote:
>
> >I was away from my computer for a week too but the search was a topic
of conversation on the salt and around the truck stop Mexican
restaurant/Red Flame gas grille/casino lunch counter/dinner table at
WoS.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I heard the computer satellite
search had turned up some other wrecks that had been overlooked.
Another theory was his plane had gone down in water ... anyone else hear
that?
> >
> >Wes
> >
> > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> >From: Dick J <lsr_man at yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >>What happened with Steve Fosset?  I've been away from the computer
and any news
> >>source for a couiple of weeks.  Last I heard, his plane was missing
in Nevada.
> >>
> >>  DickJ
> >>  In East Texas
> >>
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >drmayf at mayfco.com
> >
> >Land-speed mailing list
> >
> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> karhu at california.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Tue Sep 18 09:48:52 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:48:52 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
Message-ID: <c56.1d3083f7.34214d64@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/18/2007 9:50:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
wester6935 at comcast.net writes:

Someone  correct me if I'm wrong but I heard the computer satellite search 
had turned  up some other wrecks that had been overlooked.  Another theory was 
his  plane had gone down in water ... anyone else hear  that?

Wes



They did find a bunch of   planes that went down years  ago, maybe the only 
positive outcome of the search.
The official seen most often giving updates on the search did say  Fossett 
might have used the "Walker River" as a landmark and flown along it.  
Considering the lack of flight plan, or other normal precautions, it seems the  search 
has faded out and he'll just be considered MIA until someone  stumbles over the 
wreck, if ever.
Bob W
 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Sep 18 10:10:18 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:10:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR Phoenix 65 degs.
In-Reply-To: <6FB722AFB5A240F699A32DD632086D92@LMS>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16676@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Bwahahaha - 43 here this morning.  I can breathe!

Relief comes to those to have patience, file a flight plan . . .and
stick to it.

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Sparky
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:19 AM
To: AA List
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR Phoenix 65 degs.

Doors open and AC OFF first time in months! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 18 10:16:39 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:16:39 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened to Fosset ?
In-Reply-To: <006701c7f9fe$1f4714f0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
References: <BAY135-W97C2E2ACF54294AF0AE8AD9B80@phx.gbl>
	<006701c7f9fe$1f4714f0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W2659C1DD79D17B633B0085D9B80@phx.gbl>

Dave,   youre absoloutely right  AGAIN       Drat!       LOL!


            Send



  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York,

          -------------------------- oooo ---------------------------


    Wise words from the ancients especially in light of today's 'troubles' :




    VULGAS VULT DECEPI     ( the (common) people wish to be deceived )



          -Phaedrus
.............................................................................
..............................................
> From: ddahlgren at snet.net
> To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com; lsr_man at yahoo.com;
land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:13:43 -0400
>
> He died of the dead Kennedy disease.. Thought physics and common sense
> do not apply... It is what happens when you get too complacent and think
> something that has inherent risks are no big deal.. If he filed a flight
> plan he would have been found dead or alive right away. Saving the
> taxpayers millions in the process. Kinda makes Coddingtons hole a little
> on the low buck side eh??
>
    Always politically incorrect but to the point..
> Sometimes the real truth is not polite at times..
> Dave
>
> -----Original
Message-----------------------------------------------------------------
 On Behalf Of Doug Anderson

>
>
>     Still is...  I heard last night on NPR radio that the search is
> about called off.
>
>          - they said the area searched is 2X the size of New Joisey
>
>     -just goes to show ya,  well I guess our lesson is that we better
> live life large ... every day because you really do never know -do you ?

_________________________________________________________________
More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live
Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration
_HM_mini_5G_0907

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Sep 18 10:52:49 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:52:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
References: <006701c7f9fe$1f4714f0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <003b01c7fa14$5ab26880$6501a8c0@S>

Dave's right.  "File an flight plan"
Not a bad philosophy for living, especially if you care about others.
We live in a  connected age; "flight plans" are easy to do.
Ed Weldon
"What you do for yourself is just maintenance and self improvement.
What you do for others is what really counts.  Run up that score"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened
> ....... If he filed a flight  plan he would have been found
> dead or alive right away.....
> Dave

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 11:34:01 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:34:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
In-Reply-To: <46EFE695.4090600@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <419530.46447.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote: ... ... Been in jail with no newspapers, eh?
   
  JAIL? ?   Nah, not this time.  Wanted to get away from the hustle and bustle of rural Texas so I spent a week in Nova Scotia.
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas



       
---------------------------------
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!

From john.szalay at att.net  Tue Sep 18 11:34:21 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:34:21 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
Message-ID: <091820071734.7119.46F00C1D0004BF0400001BCF2160280741970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

Not called off, owever the CAP search is being scaled  WAY back ,
 and the private search aircraft operating out of the Ranch still goes on. as does the Google-Earth search of the less then 3 days old sat images..

someone funded some big bucks to get up-to-date Digital_Earth high rez
images of the search area posted for use with Google-Earth..


-------------- Original message from ddahlgren at snet.net>: --------------  Of Doug Anderson 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:18 AM 
> To: Dick J; lsr list autox 
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened? 
> 
> 
> Still is... I heard last night on NPR radio that the search is 
> about called off. 
> 
> - they said the area searched is 2X the size of New Joisey 

From lsr1301 at dahmurf.com  Tue Sep 18 11:42:59 2007
From: lsr1301 at dahmurf.com (DahMurf)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:42:59 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
In-Reply-To: <003b01c7fa14$5ab26880$6501a8c0@S>
References: <006701c7f9fe$1f4714f0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
	<003b01c7fa14$5ab26880$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <20070918173104.M48899@dahmurf.com>

We use our cell phone text messaging to track our "ride plan" and 
arrival/departure times. I also had the chaperone feature enabled on my cell 
phone so hubby can track me. It's handy when I'm stuck in traffic doing 
10mph on the bike and I'm unable to call and say I'm stuck in traffic. This 
way if I'm running late & he hears about a wreck along my route, and 
especially if it's a bike, he can figure out where I am and that it's not 
me. (So far it hasn't been me! I save the wrecking for the track where it 
belongs! hehehe) I also like the fact that if I did end up in a ditch they'd 
have a reasonable chance of finding me! (We just had a guy in our area 
allegedly stuck overturned in a ditch for a whole week and nobody found him 
till he managed to crawl up to the road. The story is a little fishy but I 
suppose it could happen)

It is a shame about Steve Fossett, we like others, were hoping for a 
positive outcome.

Deb #1302
Twin Jugs Racing

> Dave's right.  "File an flight plan"
> Not a bad philosophy for living, especially if you care about others.
> We live in a  connected age; "flight plans" are easy to do.
> Ed Weldon
> "What you do for yourself is just maintenance and self improvement.
> What you do for others is what really counts.  Run up that score"

From lsrvette at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 12:23:49 2007
From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:23:49 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Maintenance
In-Reply-To: <001e01c7f1a0$141c2a40$6501a8c0@S>
References: <29674744.1189197821163.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net><011801c7f198$b6c279f0$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<001e01c7f1a0$141c2a40$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <00bb01c7fa21$1608f8e0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>

Ok, when is it allowable (actually required) to over inflate trailer tires
by 10psi above the max. load psi rating on the sidewall?   I was very
surprised to find out that almost all 'ST' marked trailer tires have this
requirement to maintain their load rating for what I will call 'normal (65 -
75MPH) highway driving (OK, don't beat me up for running fast - it's not the
point of this thread).

Don't believe me? Check this link out ->
http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/marathon_gen_info_032806.pdf

Apparently I have been living in the dark for many years.  Am I the only one
who did not know this?

JLS

From webmaster at landracing.com  Tue Sep 18 16:40:20 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jonathan Amo)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:40:20 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's "hole"--salt related
In-Reply-To: <AED89FCBB66E4CE98BF09C66EB25142B@LMS>
References: <091820071354.18188.46EFD887000E4B4B0000470C2206998499CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
	<AED89FCBB66E4CE98BF09C66EB25142B@LMS>
Message-ID: <2F6646694CAE43EDAFC545190E3ADF22@JonPC>

To all who have followed... Look Cottington got stuck, no deny that claim... 
But who is actually at fault? The wrecker who tried to pull them out should 
have known, accessed the situation.. BUT NO,  they have to get three of them 
stuck before pulling in the big rig to get them all out... Cottington just 
called for a service.
The issue is being resolved. The Tow Company is paying and doing the work to 
restore that area. Starting with a bobcat to fill in the area, then bringing 
in a Truck load of salt for damage repair. the TOW company is doing this...

Jon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
To: <wester6935 at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:00 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's "hole"--salt related


> If he had any "CLASS" he would pickup the expense and oversee the 
> repairing
> of that hole.
>      Sparky
> AA/_ L  2211
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>From
> _______________________________________________
> webmaster at landracing.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Sep 18 16:44:44 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:44:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's "hole"--salt related
References: <091820071354.18188.46EFD887000E4B4B0000470C2206998499CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net><AED89FCBB66E4CE98BF09C66EB25142B@LMS>
	<2F6646694CAE43EDAFC545190E3ADF22@JonPC>
Message-ID: <000401c7fa45$823b4bc0$6400a8c0@Dale>

Does that mean don't bother calling toW truck in future if stuck on salt?

dale
working on shop people doors ,old new lathe, and 57 chev in pahrump


> To all who have followed... Look Cottington got stuck, no deny that 
> claim...
> But who is actually at fault? The wrecker who tried to pull them out 
> should
> have known, accessed the situation.. BUT NO,  they have to get three of 
> them
> stuck before pulling in the big rig to get them all out... Cottington just
> called for a service.
> The issue is being resolved. The Tow Company is paying and doing the work 
> to
> restore that area. Starting with a bobcat to fill in the area, then 
> bringing
> in a Truck load of salt for damage repair. the TOW company is doing 
> this...
>
> Jon
>>
>> If he had any "CLASS" he would pickup the expense and oversee the
>> repairing
>> of that hole.
>>      Sparky
>> AA/_ L  2211

From webmaster at landracing.com  Tue Sep 18 17:01:18 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jonathan Amo)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:01:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's "hole"--salt related
In-Reply-To: <000401c7fa45$823b4bc0$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <091820071354.18188.46EFD887000E4B4B0000470C2206998499CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net><AED89FCBB66E4CE98BF09C66EB25142B@LMS>
	<2F6646694CAE43EDAFC545190E3ADF22@JonPC>
	<000401c7fa45$823b4bc0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <F0C664AC5D3A4C7B9C28608BD1A02BB6@JonPC>

And actually he did have some "Class" Sparky, he donated $1000 to Save the 
Salt.
dale, you can call whoever you want for tow truck, but its up to them to do 
their job not yours.

Jon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>
To: "Jonathan Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>; "Sparky" 
<sparky.2211 at cox.net>; <wester6935 at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Coddington's "hole"--salt related


> Does that mean don't bother calling toW truck in future if stuck on salt?
>
> dale
> working on shop people doors ,old new lathe, and 57 chev in pahrump
>
>
>> To all who have followed... Look Cottington got stuck, no deny that 
>> claim...
>> But who is actually at fault? The wrecker who tried to pull them out 
>> should
>> have known, accessed the situation.. BUT NO,  they have to get three of 
>> them
>> stuck before pulling in the big rig to get them all out... Cottington 
>> just
>> called for a service.
>> The issue is being resolved. The Tow Company is paying and doing the work 
>> to
>> restore that area. Starting with a bobcat to fill in the area, then 
>> bringing
>> in a Truck load of salt for damage repair. the TOW company is doing 
>> this...
>>
>> Jon
>>>
>>> If he had any "CLASS" he would pickup the expense and oversee the
>>> repairing
>>> of that hole.
>>>      Sparky
>>> AA/_ L  2211

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Sep 18 17:03:09 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:03:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Maintenance
In-Reply-To: <00bb01c7fa21$1608f8e0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>
References: <29674744.1189197821163.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<011801c7f198$b6c279f0$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<001e01c7f1a0$141c2a40$6501a8c0@S>
	<00bb01c7fa21$1608f8e0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>
Message-ID: <20070918230253.42F13187A3D@autox.team.net>

John,
Read it again. The 10 psi is actually a warning that you must not 
exceed "cold".......not that it must be set 10 psi higher in order to 
maintain load rated capacity. The wheel is the limiting factor in my 
experience.
Skip



At 11:23 AM 9/18/2007, John Staiger wrote:
>Ok, when is it allowable (actually required) to over inflate trailer tires
>by 10psi above the max. load psi rating on the sidewall?   I was very
>surprised to find out that almost all 'ST' marked trailer tires have this
>requirement to maintain their load rating for what I will call 'normal (65 -
>75MPH) highway driving (OK, don't beat me up for running fast - it's not the
>point of this thread).
>
>Don't believe me? Check this link out ->
>http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/marathon_gen_info_032806.pdf

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Sep 18 17:13:26 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:13:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
In-Reply-To: <091820071734.7119.46F00C1D0004BF0400001BCF2160280741970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
References: <091820071734.7119.46F00C1D0004BF0400001BCF2160280741970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
Message-ID: <43B278731F7B4DB49BB17A755A21AA23@LMS>

Well----- between Hilton and Fosset they might be able to scrape up a buck 
or two!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Szalay" <john.szalay at att.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?


> someone funded some big bucks to get up-to-date Digital_Earth high rez
> images of the search area posted for use with Google-Earth..

From john.szalay at att.net  Tue Sep 18 17:16:59 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 23:16:59 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
Message-ID: <091820072316.25695.46F05C6A000A371A0000645F2160280651970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

-------------- Original message from wester6935 at comcast.net: -------------- 


> I was away from my computer for a week too but the search was a topic of > conversation on the salt and around the truck stop Mexican restaurant/Red Flame > gas grille/casino lunch counter/dinner table at WoS. Someone correct me if I'm > wrong but I heard the computer satellite search had turned up some other wrecks 
> that had been overlooked. Another theory was his plane had gone down in water > ... anyone else hear that? 
> 
> Wes 
> 

 They have two boats with sidescan sonar searching Walker Lake.
found nothing as of last reports.
Air Search and Sat image searches, have located 8 old wrecks
3 of those are un-documented. one carries ID from a plane
registered in OR and missing for over 30 years.
 they will be marked and reviewed later by crews.  and if they are military, a team from the Hawaii lab will be notified for recovery of remains.  ( JPAC)
     http://www.jpac.pacom.mil/


 The search team has decided that its unlikely he was more that 50 miles
from the Flying M ranch .

 Latest real news is on his page. 
media has lost interest..      (short attention span)

 http://www.stevefossett.com/


 Thats a LOT of rugged country. Drove through it in 2003 before WOS
looking for Ghost towns and whatever.
and have reviewed over 1000 of the search images (latest set)
and my eyes are tired..

From kturk at ala.net  Tue Sep 18 17:17:50 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:17:50 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's "hole"--salt related
References: <091820071354.18188.46EFD887000E4B4B0000470C2206998499CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net><AED89FCBB66E4CE98BF09C66EB25142B@LMS><2F6646694CAE43EDAFC545190E3ADF22@JonPC><000401c7fa45$823b4bc0$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<F0C664AC5D3A4C7B9C28608BD1A02BB6@JonPC>
Message-ID: <072a01c7fa4a$28dcee80$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

I'm sorry Jon... when the Helicopter flew low over the crowd and then went 
out and did wooferdill's showing off and trying to impress folks... I lost 
total respect for the whole effort...

K 

From wmtsmith at cox.net  Tue Sep 18 17:17:56 2007
From: wmtsmith at cox.net (Wm. T. Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:17:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's "hole"--salt related
In-Reply-To: <F0C664AC5D3A4C7B9C28608BD1A02BB6@JonPC>
References: <091820071354.18188.46EFD887000E4B4B0000470C2206998499CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net><AED89FCBB66E4CE98BF09C66EB25142B@LMS>
	<2F6646694CAE43EDAFC545190E3ADF22@JonPC>
	<000401c7fa45$823b4bc0$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<F0C664AC5D3A4C7B9C28608BD1A02BB6@JonPC>
Message-ID: <3D6FB6218C874C36AB5AF3B89C441185@LMS>

Thanks Jon for that info!!!!!
      Sparky 
AA/_ L  2211

From john.szalay at att.net  Tue Sep 18 17:22:37 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 23:22:37 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened?
Message-ID: <091820072322.780.46F05DBD00054E3B0000030C2160280651970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

They got some good people involved,  even Dick Rutan is flying one
of the search planes. 

-------------- Original message from "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>: -------------- 
> Well----- between Hilton and Fosset they might be able to scrape up a buck  or two!!!!!!!!! 
> Sparky 
> AA/_ L 2211 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Szalay" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:34 AM 
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Not LSR What Happened? 
> 
> 
> > someone funded some big bucks to get up-to-date Digital_Earth high rez 
> > images of the search area posted for use with Google-Earth.. 

From karhu at california.com  Tue Sep 18 17:35:10 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:35:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Maintenance
References: <29674744.1189197821163.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net><011801c7f198$b6c279f0$6401a8c0@Glens><001e01c7f1a0$141c2a40$6501a8c0@S><00bb01c7fa21$1608f8e0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>
	<20070918230253.42F13187A3D@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <003f01c7fa4c$8de1ea40$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

Hey, Skip, that sounds like "interesting" experience--wanna tell us
about it?  (I've always wondered if Hunter S. Thompson could actually
put a 70's-ish Chevy wheel up to 85 psi without blowing up).

> maintain load rated capacity. The wheel is the limiting factor in my
> experience.
> Skip

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Sep 18 17:42:07 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:42:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Trailer Maintenance
In-Reply-To: <20070918230253.42F13187A3D@autox.team.net>
References: <29674744.1189197821163.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<011801c7f198$b6c279f0$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<001e01c7f1a0$141c2a40$6501a8c0@S>
	<00bb01c7fa21$1608f8e0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>
	<20070918230253.42F13187A3D@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <46F0624F.9080907@mayfco.com>

Yup, on the wheels. My Pace book has a max tire psi based on the 
aluminum wheel. So I  never exceed that number which is 55 psig.

mayf
Skip Higginbotham wrote:

>John,
>Read it again. The 10 psi is actually a warning that you must not 
>exceed "cold".......not that it must be set 10 psi higher in order to 
>maintain load rated capacity. The wheel is the limiting factor in my 
>experience.
>Skip
>
>
>
>At 11:23 AM 9/18/2007, John Staiger wrote:
>  
>
>>Ok, when is it allowable (actually required) to over inflate trailer tires
>>by 10psi above the max. load psi rating on the sidewall?   I was very
>>surprised to find out that almost all 'ST' marked trailer tires have this
>>requirement to maintain their load rating for what I will call 'normal (65 -
>>75MPH) highway driving (OK, don't beat me up for running fast - it's not the
>>point of this thread).
>>
>>Don't believe me? Check this link out ->
>>http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/marathon_gen_info_032806.pdf
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Sep 18 20:05:00 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 02:05:00 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's"hole"--salt  related
Message-ID: <W674432243759311190167500@webmail14>

Hope they do a better job than Toyota did a few years back...........
Ed


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Amo [mailto:webmaster at landracing.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 03:40 PM
>To: 'Sparky', wester6935 at comcast.net, land-speed at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Coddington's "hole"--salt related
>
>To all who have followed... Look Cottington got stuck, no deny that claim... 
>But who is actually at fault? The wrecker who tried to pull them out should 
>have known, accessed the situation.. BUT NO, they have to get three of them 
>stuck before pulling in the big rig to get them all out... Cottington just 
>called for a service.
>The issue is being resolved. The Tow Company is paying and doing the work to 
>restore that area. Starting with a bobcat to fill in the area, then bringing 
>in a Truck load of salt for damage repair. the TOW company is doing this...
>
>Jon
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
>To: <wester6935 at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:00 AM
>Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's "hole"--salt related
>
>
>> If he had any "CLASS" he would pickup the expense and oversee the 
>> repairing
>> of that hole.
>> Sparky
>> AA/_ L 2211
>> ----- Original Message ----- 

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Tue Sep 18 23:19:32 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 01:19:32 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's 1927 T Roadster build on TLC
Message-ID: <d10.13cf5d6b.34220b64@aol.com>

Last Thursday they showed the start of the build on the Coddington '27 T 
roadster on American Hot Rod. Like most Coddington builds he started with a 100% 
stock complete car, and only kept the body. After much cutting and hacking he 
had a cowl section, new fabed doors from flat stock and the turtle deck. My 
question is would the rules have allowed him to use a fiberglass body so the T 
could be saved for a restoration or Hot Rod build? Bob in connecticut



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From Flowbench at aol.com  Tue Sep 18 23:28:12 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 01:28:12 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's 1927 T Roadster build on TLC
Message-ID: <d68.11eee9d4.34220d6c@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/18/2007 10:20:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,  
Want1937hd at aol.com writes:

My  
question is would the rules have allowed him to use a fiberglass body so  the 
T 
could be saved for a restoration or Hot Rod build? 


Yes



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From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Sep 19 06:50:48 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 05:50:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (non-tech lsr) Lady Riders Wanted for Bonneville
 Racing - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Message-ID: <000501c7fabb$b3bced40$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.fireblades.org/forums/general-discussion/59409-lady-riders-wanted-
for-bonneville-racing.html

here is aguy doing good
dale
dark and on way to Vegas again in pahrump

From kturk at ala.net  Wed Sep 19 08:25:23 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:25:23 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] The Berekely
Message-ID: <001401c7fac8$eb3d8830$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Just thought I'd mention that I sold the Berkeley to John Staiger,  He's been
a list member for  several years and has worked with Gary Hensley on the Bike
project...

Lots of reasons to sell the car... but mostly because I love working on that
Girly Camaro... and the Berk needed to run faster then I really had a desire
to run...

I'm looking forward to seeing it run again... Race cars aren't much good
sitting in the Garage.

Keith

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Sep 19 08:36:05 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:36:05 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] The Berekely
References: <001401c7fac8$eb3d8830$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <004701c7faca$69a97700$6401a8c0@Glens>

Keith
Good for you, I know John will do well with the Berk. At least it will be 
running.
glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <ECTALSR at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 8:25 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] The Berekely


> Just thought I'd mention that I sold the Berkeley to John Staiger,  He's 
> been
> a list member for  several years and has worked with Gary Hensley on the 
> Bike
> project...
>
> Lots of reasons to sell the car... but mostly because I love working on 
> that
> Girly Camaro... and the Berk needed to run faster then I really had a 
> desire
> to run...
>
> I'm looking forward to seeing it run again... Race cars aren't much good
> sitting in the Garage.
>
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Wed Sep 19 09:02:45 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:02:45 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] The Berekely
References: <001401c7fac8$eb3d8830$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <46F13A15.000007.01072@TOM>

Keith,

You are a prince! If you don't want to explore the car's potential, let
someone else do it. I know that you will always be connected to what it does


Through the years, I have found that I don't need to drive the car in order
to enjoy running it. I haven't reached the point of letting someone else run
it, yet. If my present luck continues, who knows?

We are rebuilding again after our third engine failure within the year.
(Last meet I lost a piston on the first run, (junk in the nozzle screens
from letting alcohol set in part of the system to long). Replaced the piston
and all crank bearings, then Barry took a pass, intending to go  to the 3
mile on a check out run, but broke a rod before he got there.

I have a  taken the machine work to another shop.  I have really screwed up
on some things, but I still feel that something is not right with the
bearing tolerances.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC (hanging my head in shame!)

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From RACE427 at aol.com  Wed Sep 19 09:22:02 2007
From: RACE427 at aol.com (RACE427 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:22:02 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
Message-ID: <cc8.1b2709e6.3422989a@aol.com>

Remember I teach automotive shop class...LOL   This  should be alot of fun ??
 
   My co-worker who goes out and buys for 40 K a 37  Ford kit car without 
correct VIN numbers on the vehicle, bad enough, now he has  a friend who totals 
out a fiberglass replica of a 33 Willys Coupe.
 
   He spins out on the NY State Thruway in a turn  when the road was wet, 
hits a tree and this over priced piece of junk  dis-intergrates.   Brags the car 
is worth 70  K..       I do not get it, going out and spending  40 or 70K for 
something which is not the real deal?   For that kind of  money one can buy a 
Porsche, Corvette or a Viper that comes with a warranty, is  safer than that 
wood and glass model junk and will out run those kit cars  hands down with much 
better fuel mileage.   Any new production  performance car is quicker than 
the patched together crap.   Plus,  they turn and stop also !!!!
 
    Must be the the Yuppie generation who have  alot of money to burn on 
their childhood fantasies !!!    LOL   Me, I work too damn hard for my money.
 
    Any thoughts, comments?   I am  sure there are going to be plenty !!!
 
     Tony G    LI,NY



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From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 19 09:33:52 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:33:52 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
Message-ID: <17154810.1190216032305.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

My thought! you are right. He would have been better off to by a 55 Chevy......JD

 this over priced piece of junk  dis-intergrates.   Brags the car 
>is worth 70  K..       I do not get it, going out and spending  40 or 70K for 
>something which is not the real deal? 

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Sep 19 09:49:38 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:49:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
References: <cc8.1b2709e6.3422989a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c7fad4$b63054e0$6501a8c0@S>

Hey Tony..... Quick knocking childhood fantasies!
>From closeup and careful examination of the homo sapiens americanus (study
subjects: our two sons) I have concluded that childhood lasts until
approximately age 30.
My estimation is that 67 percent of the cars and bikes in land speed racing
are the end stage result of these childhood fantasies.
So what's wrong with having a vehicle with a fiberglass body and no serial
numbers that is so poorly engineered that it can only go in a straight line?
And why should anyone hack up a perfectly good steel 27T roadster body (like
our friend in the salt excavation business) when a fiberglass replica will
do just as well?
Ed Weldon  (LOL...yeah, me too!)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <RACE427 at aol.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
>     Must be the the Yuppie generation who have  alot of money to burn on
> their childhood fantasies !!!    LOL   Me, I work too damn hard for my
money.
>     Any thoughts, comments?   I am  sure there are going to be plenty !!!
>      Tony G    LI,NY

From SCowle at mentorcollege.edu  Wed Sep 19 10:01:22 2007
From: SCowle at mentorcollege.edu (Scott Cowle)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:01:22 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
In-Reply-To: <cc8.1b2709e6.3422989a@aol.com>
References: <cc8.1b2709e6.3422989a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46F10F920200003800004C1E@gw.mentorcollege.edu>

Well, I agree that the real deal is better but I would love to get a 41 Willys
and put a hemi in it, just like in the movie "Hot Rod" but where do I find a
genuine Willys that I can afford? I would hope there are kits out there that
cost less than 40 thou if you are willing to do the work yourself, which
people in the Landspeed community seem to be willing to do. Scott

>>> <RACE427 at aol.com> 9/19/2007 11:22 AM >>>
Remember I teach automotive shop class...LOL   This  should be alot of fun ??

   My co-worker who goes out and buys for 40 K a 37  Ford kit car without
correct VIN numbers on the vehicle, bad enough, now he has  a friend who
totals
out a fiberglass replica of a 33 Willys Coupe.

   He spins out on the NY State Thruway in a turn  when the road was wet,
hits a tree and this over priced piece of junk  dis-intergrates.   Brags the
car
is worth 70  K..       I do not get it, going out and spending  40 or 70K for
something which is not the real deal?   For that kind of  money one can buy a
Porsche, Corvette or a Viper that comes with a warranty, is  safer than that
wood and glass model junk and will out run those kit cars  hands down with
much
better fuel mileage.   Any new production  performance car is quicker than
the patched together crap.   Plus,  they turn and stop also !!!!

    Must be the the Yuppie generation who have  alot of money to burn on
their childhood fantasies !!!    LOL   Me, I work too damn hard for my money.

    Any thoughts, comments?   I am  sure there are going to be plenty !!!

     Tony G    LI,NY



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_______________________________________________
scowle at mentorcollege.edu

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



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From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Sep 19 11:17:10 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:17:10 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Pine Acres Rms available now
Message-ID: <ce2.1ba2019d.3422b396@aol.com>

Due to the early arrival of my annual nasty URI, I won't be attending the  
ECTA event this weekend. I was told when I spoke with the Pine Acres desk  guy I 
was the last reservation being taken. I have two rooms available  for Friday 
and Saturday night.  Give me an email and I'll call  them and put the res in 
your name. Try to get me before Thursday afternoon so I  know at least someone 
on this list gets them.
And for once the car is ready........
Bob, breathless and unsettled, W 



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From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Sep 19 16:17:53 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:17:53 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
Message-ID: <c08.226a128c.3422fa11@aol.com>

If you agree with this thread you'll love this....A repro that is at the  low 
end of an original..this weeks AutoWeek...
_http://autoweek.anmarketplace.com/classifieds/index.mv_ 
(http://autoweek.anmarketplace.com/classifieds/index.mv)  
 
Bob W



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From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Sep 19 16:25:13 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:25:13 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Subject: Re:  Overpriced Junk !
Message-ID: <d4b.11e6b3e3.3422fbc9@aol.com>

    _
click image to enlarge_ (javascript:Classifieds_Popup( '001716796469' );)  
1956 Mercedes 300 SL Reproduction by Gullwing Cars. All  Mercedes parts; Engine, 
Susp, Gearbox etc. Silver/Blue leather. Fitted  luggage. Better than 
original. $225K.   Contact (703)395-2133. (VA)
 Often takes a lot of time to send stuff on this particular  medium..sorry...
Bob W



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From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Sep 19 16:58:30 2007
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris R Harris)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:58:30 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's 1927 T Roadster build on TLC
References: <d10.13cf5d6b.34220b64@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002001c7fb10$9b701190$af6a65da@Wendover>

Bob, I thought the same many episodes back when they sourced an incredibly perfect 'T' coupe in running condition that 
in all honesty looked 10 years old. It too was unceremoniously hacked up despite objection by some of his men. Glass 
versions in both cases readily available and acceptable under the rules if an accurate copy.
I don't agree with cutting up good condition, now rare examples if glass alternatives exist for that purpose.
Chris Harris,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NZed.


Last Thursday they showed the start of the build on the Coddington '27 T
roadster on American Hot Rod. Like most Coddington builds he started with a 100%
stock complete car, and only kept the body. After much cutting and hacking he
had a cowl section, new fabed doors from flat stock and the turtle deck. My
question is would the rules have allowed him to use a fiberglass body so the T
could be saved for a restoration or Hot Rod build? Bob in connecticut

From bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Wed Sep 19 17:53:58 2007
From: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:53:58 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Traffic, non LSR
Message-ID: <091920072353.5675.46F1B6960002387C0000162B22007348309C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>

There was a spot on national news last night about traffic.
If they made a lane only for lightweight vehicles that got, say, 60 m.p.g. minimum, they'd sell a ton of 'em.
What do you think?  BJ

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Sep 19 18:12:18 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:12:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Traffic, non LSR
References: <091920072353.5675.46F1B6960002387C0000162B22007348309C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <004f01c7fb1a$e8b13ec0$6401a8c0@Glens>

I think a lot would get blown off the road by heavy weight 18 wheelers.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bobbyhotrods at comcast.net>
To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:53 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Traffic, non LSR


> There was a spot on national news last night about traffic.
> If they made a lane only for lightweight vehicles that got, say, 60 m.p.g. 
> minimum, they'd sell a ton of 'em.
> What do you think?  BJ
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Sep 19 18:16:57 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:16:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Traffic, non LSR
In-Reply-To: <091920072353.5675.46F1B6960002387C0000162B22007348309C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
References: <091920072353.5675.46F1B6960002387C0000162B22007348309C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46F1BBF9.50904@mayfco.com>

They already do have a lane for them, it is the slow far right lane... :-)

mayf
bobbyhotrods at comcast.net wrote:

>There was a spot on national news last night about traffic.
>If they made a lane only for lightweight vehicles that got, say, 60 m.p.g. minimum, they'd sell a ton of 'em.
>What do you think?  BJ
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From RACE427 at aol.com  Wed Sep 19 18:28:06 2007
From: RACE427 at aol.com (RACE427 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:28:06 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
Message-ID: <bcf.1d4f9734.34231896@aol.com>

Whatever you buy today as far as cars, even motorcycles, they are light years 
ahead of what we used to own.   I cannot see how anyone can justify spending 
40-100K for a fiberglass kit car which are not safe and built like garbage.  
To me it just looks like alot of Bling !!

    I met Caroll Shelby once and he even remarked as  what garbage the 
fiberglass replicas of his famed Cobra were.    At that time he stated that he had 
enough parts in stock to be able to build about 100 or so new all steel Cobras.

    The guy I work with, who claims he spent 40K on a Gibbons 37 Ford without 
correct VIN identification has a Mustang II front end,   need I say more?   
what junk that front end was back in the mid-late 70's !!

     If I had 40 -50K to spend on a performance car it would be a new 
Corvette, best bang for the buck.   The car has plenty of power, stops and turns 
better than anything else for that price.

     Back in 1968 a friend of mine owned a 38 Ford Coupe stuffed with a 371 
Olds, Corvette 4 spd and an Olds rear and the car was really nice.  He wanted $ 
1700.00 for it.  I was 15, that amount of money was impossible for me to 
earn.   I can only imagine what that all steel car would go for today.   Surely, 
fiberglass repro junk cannot be worth what they are asking.   But, yuppies will 
pay the price for anything !!!  LOL

     Just thinking out loud !!!  LOL

      Tony G    LI,NY


**************************************
 See what's new at 
http://www.aol.com

From saltfevr at q.com  Wed Sep 19 20:48:00 2007
From: saltfevr at q.com (TOM M SHANNON)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:48:00 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] New Email addie
Message-ID: <BAY122-W36EF55A32B0F85FA16A4BAC9BA0@phx.gbl>

 Hello everyone;

After  about 6 yrs with dial up ISP, I've decided to get DSL Broadband. Wow,
the modem green lights are neat. Now ,are they battery receiver or transmitter
timing lights? LOL Good to be back on the list. Have been away since SW. BTW,
my new email is now: saltfevr at q.com  my old address is in effect till Oct 9.
saltfevr at sisna.com

Thanks, hope to see y'all at WF's.
Tom ShannonMagna, Utah

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Sep 19 21:09:51 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:09:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New Email addie
References: <BAY122-W36EF55A32B0F85FA16A4BAC9BA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000a01c7fb33$b801ad50$6501a8c0@S>

Tom-- Seems every year I shake your hand at the Salt Talks and then it's
another whole year before I shake it again.  Now maybe we can talk a little
more often just by pushing some electrons around.  This is good!!
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "TOM M SHANNON" <saltfevr at q.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 7:48 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] New Email addie


> Hello everyone;
>
> After  about 6 yrs with dial up ISP, I've decided to get DSL Broadband.
Wow,
> the modem green lights are neat. Now ,are they battery receiver or
transmitter
> timing lights? LOL Good to be back on the list. Have been away since SW.
BTW,
> my new email is now: saltfevr at q.com  my old address is in effect till Oct
9.
> saltfevr at sisna.com
>
> Thanks, hope to see y'all at WF's.
> Tom ShannonMagna, Utah
> _______________________________________________
> 23.weldon at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Sep 19 21:45:44 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:45:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
In-Reply-To: <bcf.1d4f9734.34231896@aol.com>
References: <bcf.1d4f9734.34231896@aol.com>
Message-ID: <915E9EBF110B4F899352B56D84F48F67@LMS>

BEATS leaving it to the KIDS!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky 
AA/_ L  2211

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 19 21:47:24 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 03:47:24 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] New Email addie
In-Reply-To: <000a01c7fb33$b801ad50$6501a8c0@S>
References: <BAY122-W36EF55A32B0F85FA16A4BAC9BA0@phx.gbl>
	<000a01c7fb33$b801ad50$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W30366F39CFF68B0CD236CCD9BA0@phx.gbl>

Hiya  Tommy!   good to hear from ya.

don't be a 'lurker'   LOL!



  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York,


  -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,

  -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,

   -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway

   -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...

   -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway

   -2325 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats

     and never more than a few feet from a cold one



  Speedway bikes, Harley D's and minibikes rode with equal joy,

   Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,

    Airship Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,



           -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they are

cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccco

> From: 23.weldon at comcast.net
> To: saltfevr at q.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:09:51 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] New Email addie
>
> Tom-- Seems every year I shake your hand at the Salt Talks and then it's
> another whole year before I shake it again.  Now maybe we can talk a little
> more often just by pushing some electrons around.  This is good!!
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "TOM M SHANNON" <saltfevr at q.com>
> To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 7:48 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] New Email addie
>
>
> > Hello everyone;
> >
> After  about 6 yrs with dial up ISP, I've decided to get DSL Broadband.
> Wow, the modem green lights are neat. Now ,are they battery receiver or
> transmitter timing lights? LOL Good to be back on the list. Have been away
since SW. BTW, my new email is now: saltfevr at q.com  my old address is in
effect till Oct
> 9. saltfevr at sisna.com
> >
> > Thanks, hope to see y'all at WF's.
> > Tom ShannonMagna, Utah

_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Sep 19 22:03:16 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:03:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant
Message-ID: <054C9F8C4D3A41D699F28CB88ED8C4A2@LMS>

Thanks to all who responded!!!!!
As to the several of you who felt that there was NO threat from the Southern
Border---you might not want to tell that to the new widow of slain Phoenix
police officer Nick Erfle.
     He stopped three pedisterians for jay walking yesterday.  One was an
illegal scum bag who was deported last year from Phoenix---he whipped out a
gun and shot the officer in the head---thank God he was shot a short time
later as he was aparently about to shoot his hostage.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 22:11:24 2007
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:11:24 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant
In-Reply-To: <054C9F8C4D3A41D699F28CB88ED8C4A2@LMS>
References: <054C9F8C4D3A41D699F28CB88ED8C4A2@LMS>
Message-ID: <45ac72e90709192111ma804eb6ja1f4802f86288ac@mail.gmail.com>

I'm justguessing, but I think you will find that the murder rate by
"illegals" from south of the border is less per thousand people than
the murder rate by citizens..

Just a thought.

On 9/20/07, Sparky <sparky.2211 at cox.net> wrote:
> Thanks to all who responded!!!!!
> As to the several of you who felt that there was NO threat from the Southern
> Border---you might not want to tell that to the new widow of slain Phoenix
> police officer Nick Erfle.
>      He stopped three pedisterians for jay walking yesterday.  One was an
> illegal scum bag who was deported last year from Phoenix---he whipped out a
> gun and shot the officer in the head---thank God he was shot a short time
> later as he was aparently about to shoot his hostage.
>       Sparky
> AA/_ L  2211

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 19 22:35:44 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:35:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR
References: <BAY122-W36EF55A32B0F85FA16A4BAC9BA0@phx.gbl>
	<000a01c7fb33$b801ad50$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <002b01c7fb3f$b5ff7e40$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Drank about a 10,000+ Budwisers and found a headache in every can or bottle. 
I'm a MGD guy today.

Don't like Mountain Dew much as I'm a 50's RC cola guy. Sorry Keith no diet.

I'm all for the military and if AMP Energy is the same company that make the 
thousands of of electrical connectors I've crimped on I'll be cheering for 
the # 88 in the "taxicab" races next year.

I won't be throwing my Wranglers away any time soon and every thou my pick 
up is a Ford it will be nice to see 88 on a GM product again (Bobby Allison 
Olds)

Just like the last few years, go Junior and Tony 

From mike_lackey at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 23:02:27 2007
From: mike_lackey at yahoo.com (Mike Lackey)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:02:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Traffic, non LSR
Message-ID: <700631.61118.qm@web30015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

My commuter can get 60mpg and I never get blown off the road.  And it already
allows me special lane rights.  I don't see people flocking to buy them
though; most are biased towards having 4 wheels...

Mike

----- Original
Message ----
From: Glen Barrett <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To:
bobbyhotrods at comcast.net; Landspeed <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent:
Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Traffic,
non LSR


I think a lot would get blown off the road by heavy weight 18
wheelers.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bobbyhotrods at comcast.net>
To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19,
2007 5:53 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Traffic, non LSR


> There was a spot on
national news last night about traffic.
> If they made a lane only for
lightweight vehicles that got, say, 60 m.p.g. 
> minimum, they'd sell a ton of
'em.
> What do you think?  BJ
>
_______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
>
Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
_______________________________________________
mike_lackey at yahoo.com
Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
_____________________________________________________________________________
_______
Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
Check out fitting gifts for grads at
Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz

From david_dymaxion at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 01:46:30 2007
From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com (David Dymaxion)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Electrathons at World of Speed
Message-ID: <463346.35835.qm@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks USFRA for putting on such a great event, even though I just spectated
it was great!

I threw up a web page with some pictures of one of the
Electrathon racers (limited to 67 pounds of batteries). One went 86 mph, and
another 89 mph.

http://www.explodingdinosaurs.com/saltflats/2007worldofspeed
Keep checking back, I have a bunch more pictures I'll be putting up.
_____________________________________________________________________________
_______
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep 20 06:29:47 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 05:29:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (tech info on Coddington Car) AMSOIL Promotions
 Update: AMSOIL/Coddington Bonneville Race Car Build Continues
Message-ID: <000501c7fb81$eeb6aa50$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://amsoilupdate.blogspot.com:80/2007/09/amsoilcoddington-bonneville-race-
car.html

list of parts on Codington car and listing for last show on build
dale
dark and making progress on 57 chev in pahrump

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 20 08:02:22 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:02:22 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
Message-ID: <092020071402.18930.46F27D6E000AC962000049F22205886172CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

There's another way ...
I was at Kirkham's Cobras a couple of years ago and tucked away in a back room was a prototype, all aluminum, 41 Willys coupe body awaiting their finishing touches.  Made in the same aircraft factory in Poland as their Cobra bodies it was the result of skilled metalcrafting.  Wonder what it would do against the old Stone Woods Cook car in finished form?  Has to be MUCH lighter weight. Their roller Cobras go out the door just needing an engine and transmission for around $60,000, more or less.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Scott Cowle" <SCowle at mentorcollege.edu>
> Well, I agree that the real deal is better but I would love to get a 41 Willys
> and put a hemi in it, just like in the movie "Hot Rod" but where do I find a
> genuine Willys that I can afford? I would hope there are kits out there that
> cost less than 40 thou if you are willing to do the work yourself, which
> people in the Landspeed community seem to be willing to do. Scott

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Thu Sep 20 08:22:38 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 07:22:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Berk
Message-ID: <87B4412D5F6343D8842C966D176E68D0@LMS>

Congratulations to John---I am sure you guys are going to have a Great time
with her!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 20 08:23:13 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:23:13 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
Message-ID: <092020071423.15026.46F282510002BB0B00003AB22207300793CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Shelby supposedly sold all of his spare parts to the Kirkham boys some
years back.  They had quite a collection at one time.

Shelby has bought at least 125 rollers from Kirkham's.  Their serial numbers 
surpass the total Shelby production by about two hundred.  They CNC all their 
suspension pieces on site.  I watched a machine mill knock off's one day 
while Rick Byrnes was talking gaskets to the brothers.  I can't wait to see 
their big 5 axis mill in operation making aluminum engine blocks.  Oh yes,
you can get a replacement on a fender from them and it will fit.  Try that on
an "original" AC body.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: RACE427 at aol.com
> Whatever you buy today as far as cars, even motorcycles, they are light years 
> ahead of what we used to own.   I cannot see how anyone can justify spending 
> 40-100K for a fiberglass kit car which are not safe and built like garbage.  
> To me it just looks like alot of Bling !!
> 
>     I met Caroll Shelby once and he even remarked as  what garbage the 
> fiberglass replicas of his famed Cobra were.    At that time he stated that he 
> had 
> enough parts in stock to be able to build about 100 or so new all steel Cobras.
> 
>     The guy I work with, who claims he spent 40K on a Gibbons 37 Ford without 
> correct VIN identification has a Mustang II front end,   need I say more?   
> what junk that front end was back in the mid-late 70's !!
> 
>      If I had 40 -50K to spend on a performance car it would be a new 
> Corvette, best bang for the buck.   The car has plenty of power, stops and turns 
> better than anything else for that price.
> 
>      Back in 1968 a friend of mine owned a 38 Ford Coupe stuffed with a 371 
> Olds, Corvette 4 spd and an Olds rear and the car was really nice.  He wanted $ 
> 1700.00 for it.  I was 15, that amount of money was impossible for me to 
> earn.   I can only imagine what that all steel car would go for today.   Surely, 
> fiberglass repro junk cannot be worth what they are asking.   But, yuppies will 
> pay the price for anything !!!  LOL
> 
>      Just thinking out loud !!!  LOL
> 
>       Tony G    LI,NY

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Thu Sep 20 08:28:19 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 07:28:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR
In-Reply-To: <002b01c7fb3f$b5ff7e40$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <BAY122-W36EF55A32B0F85FA16A4BAC9BA0@phx.gbl><000a01c7fb33$b801ad50$6501a8c0@S>
	<002b01c7fb3f$b5ff7e40$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <EB522B79A7144155BDFA3DA7BC315E5B@LMS>

JD,  AMP is some new super MD--sorry mountain dew---not MIller Draft---I am 
a big Tony Stewart fan---I just dont think that I can root for him in a Jap 
car!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message -----  

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 20 08:59:00 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:59:00 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: ALZHEIMERS TEST
Message-ID: <092020071459.22598.46F28AB4000C10F0000058462200734076CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

An "age appropriate" email ...

Wes

-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: "THOMAS W BERG" <TBERG at WEBWEST.COM>
To: <RAYB at ETV.NET>, "'Rees Bandley'" <BandleyRW at ldschurch.org>, "'Rick Widdop'" <rwiddop at amesco.com>, "'Craig Howerton'" <chowerton300 at yahoo.com>, <kfortitude at cox.net>, <kentdavis2 at juno.com>, "BILL SIDWELL" <bill.sidwell at fluor.com>, "'Margaret Sidwell'" <msidwell at commspeed.net>, "'Michael Johnson'" <mike_a_j at hotmail.com>, "'jessie thomson'" <jessie.thomson at granite.k12.ut.us>, <Garyheiner at aol.com>, <GdKarma478 at aol.com>, "'Wester Potter'" <wester6935 at comcast.net>
Subject: ALZHEIMERS TEST
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:59:43 +0000
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Subject: ALZHEIMERS TEST
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> This was developed as an age test by an R&D department at Harvard
> University. Take your time and see if you can read each line aloud 
> without a mistake. The average person over 50 years of age can't do it!
> 
> 1. This is this cat
> 2. This is is cat
> 3. This is how cat 
> 4. This is to cat
> 5. This is keep cat
> 6. This is an cat
> 7. This is old cat
> 8. This is fart cat
> 9. This is busy cat
> 10. This is for cat
> 11. This is forty cat
> 12. This is seconds cat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now go back and read the third word in each line from the top down, and I
> betcha you can't resist passing it on.
From: "THOMAS W BERG" <TBERG at WEBWEST.COM>
To: <RAYB at ETV.NET>, "'Rees Bandley'" <BandleyRW at ldschurch.org>, "'Rick
  Widdop'" <rwiddop at amesco.com>, "'Craig Howerton'"
  <chowerton300 at yahoo.com>, <kfortitude at cox.net>, <kentdavis2 at juno.com>,
  "BILL SIDWELL" <bill.sidwell at fluor.com>, "'Margaret Sidwell'"
  <msidwell at commspeed.net>, "'Michael Johnson'" <mike_a_j at hotmail.com>,
  "'jessie thomson'" <jessie.thomson at granite.k12.ut.us>,
  <Garyheiner at aol.com>, <GdKarma478 at aol.com>, "'Wester Potter'"
  <wester6935 at comcast.net>
Subject: ALZHEIMERS TEST
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:59:43 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from Multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/html

   Subject: ALZHEIMERS TEST

   This was developed as an age test by an R&D department at Harvard
   University. Take your time and see if you can read each line aloud 
   without  a  mistake.  The average person over 50 years of age can't do
   it!
   1. This is this cat
   2. This is is cat
   3. This is how cat 
   4. This is to cat
   5. This is keep cat
   6. This is an cat
   7. This is old cat
   8. This is fart cat
   9. This is busy cat
   10. This is for cat
   11. This is forty cat
   12. This is seconds cat
   Now  go  back  and read the third word in each line from the top down,
   and I
   betcha you can't resist passing it on.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 20 09:12:11 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:12:11 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] bogus email ... September 2007
Message-ID: <092020071512.20386.46F28DCA000EEAE200004FA22200734830CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

I've received this email twice.  It is headed September 2007.

DON'T OPEN IT!

I didn't send it.

Wes

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Sep 20 09:51:27 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:51:27 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant
Message-ID: <W337910574123001190303487@webmail21>

Also, a fact you won't read in the paper, 5 out of the last 7cops shot in the line of duty were illegals. Oh, by the way,Phoenix is a Sanctuary City....... coincidence?
Ed


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sparky [mailto:sparky.2211 at cox.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 09:03 PM
>To: 'AA List'
>Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant
>
>Thanks to all who responded!!!!!
>As to the several of you who felt that there was NO threat from the Southern
>Border---you might not want to tell that to the new widow of slain Phoenix
>police officer Nick Erfle.
> He stopped three pedisterians for jay walking yesterday. One was an
>illegal scum bag who was deported last year from Phoenix---he whipped out a
>gun and shot the officer in the head---thank God he was shot a short time
>later as he was aparently about to shoot his hostage.
> Sparky
>AA/_ L 2211
>_______________________________________________
>ed at vetteracing.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 20 10:05:29 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:05:29 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR
Message-ID: <9689564.1190304330175.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I root for Tony because he drives a Fontana powered midget. He has many of them with different power but the one he normally wins with has a Fontana in it. He drove Fontana's corporate midget when he was young and upcoming. Most of the Jap cars today are assembled right here in the old ol USA giving our people work. My 2 Honda Civics were assembled in Ohio and almost everything was actually made here.

It's just a Camery decal anyway as all the cars are identical anyway; but I wish Gibbs would have stayed with GM.


I have heard the AMP is another "Monster" type drink from Pepsi. Jr better drive that one the most because it's not green.

SR
>
>JD,  AMP is some new super MD--sorry mountain dew---not MIller Draft---I am 
>a big Tony Stewart fan---I just dont think that I can root for him in a Jap 
>car!

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Sep 20 10:17:48 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:17:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
In-Reply-To: <W337910574123001190303487@webmail21>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

(this is probably another bi-polar "I'm tired of this f***Ed up life"
bad day syndrome.)

Delete or bite me, as you mood strikes.



Notice:  Rat Bastard Racing will change its name to Recent Immigrant
Racing effective immediately.

Traced family roots indicate immigrations starting in the late 1600's
through 1907.  No felonies committed that I am aware of.  I will be the
last of the line (luckily as I am the bottom of the barrel.)

My family has worked hard and contributed to society, including killing
many babies in Viet Nam.

I am sorry we are no longer welcome.  Arrangements for deportation will
commence when the house is sold.

David in Durango
(the message here is criminals are the problem,  not johnny-come-latelys
- of which we all are guilty.)

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Ed Van Scoy
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:51 AM
To: Sparky; AA List
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant

Also, a fact you won't read in the paper, 5 out of the last 7cops shot
in the line of duty were illegals. Oh, by the way,Phoenix is a Sanctuary
City....... coincidence?
Ed


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sparky [mailto:sparky.2211 at cox.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 09:03 PM
>To: 'AA List'
>Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant
>
>Thanks to all who responded!!!!!
>As to the several of you who felt that there was NO threat from the
Southern
>Border---you might not want to tell that to the new widow of slain
Phoenix
>police officer Nick Erfle.
> He stopped three pedisterians for jay walking yesterday. One was an
>illegal scum bag who was deported last year from Phoenix---he whipped
out a
>gun and shot the officer in the head---thank God he was shot a short
time
>later as he was aparently about to shoot his hostage.
> Sparky
>AA/_ L 2211
>_______________________________________________
>ed at vetteracing.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Sep 20 10:30:12 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:30:12 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
Message-ID: <W56721065697331190305812@webmail11>

As a former Marine that spent a very unpleasant year in Viet Nam, Istrongly resent your comment about killing babies in Viet Nam. How about finding another topic .
Ed



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Adin, David [mailto:DavidAdin at mercydurango.org]
>Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 09:17 AM
>To: 'Ed Van Scoy', 'Sparky', 'AA List'
>Subject: RE: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
>
>(this is probably another bi-polar "I'm tired of this f***Ed up life"
>bad day syndrome.)
>
>Delete or bite me, as you mood strikes.
>
>
>
>Notice: Rat Bastard Racing will change its name to Recent Immigrant
>Racing effective immediately.
>
>Traced family roots indicate immigrations starting in the late 1600's
>through 1907. No felonies committed that I am aware of. I will be the
>last of the line (luckily as I am the bottom of the barrel.)
>
>My family has worked hard and contributed to society, including killing
>many babies in Viet Nam.
>
>I am sorry we are no longer welcome. Arrangements for deportation will
>commence when the house is sold.
>
>David in Durango 
>(the message here is criminals are the problem, not johnny-come-latelys
>- of which we all are guilty.)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
>Behalf Of Ed Van Scoy
>Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:51 AM
>To: Sparky; AA List
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant
>
>Also, a fact you won't read in the paper, 5 out of the last 7cops shot
>in the line of duty were illegals. Oh, by the way,Phoenix is a Sanctuary
>City....... coincidence?
>Ed
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Sparky [mailto:sparky.2211 at cox.net]
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 09:03 PM
>>To: 'AA List'
>>Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant
>>
>>Thanks to all who responded!!!!!
>>As to the several of you who felt that there was NO threat from the
>Southern
>>Border---you might not want to tell that to the new widow of slain
>Phoenix
>>police officer Nick Erfle.
>> He stopped three pedisterians for jay walking yesterday. One was an
>>illegal scum bag who was deported last year from Phoenix---he whipped
>out a
>>gun and shot the officer in the head---thank God he was shot a short
>time
>>later as he was aparently about to shoot his hostage.
>> Sparky
>>AA/_ L 2211
>>_______________________________________________
>>ed at vetteracing.com
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>_______________________________________________
>davidadin at mercydurango.org
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Thu Sep 20 10:35:43 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:35:43 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <46F2A15E.000001.00540@TOM>

Let us all keep cool...It seems to me that this thread has gotten out of
focus. I suspect that we are all the offspring of immigrants. The problem
isn't immigrants, this country is richer because of them. Its illegal
immigrants that I along with many others oppose. I can't blame anyone for
wanting a better life, actually that is good. There is a system to enter
this country, use it. Illegals are a problem, period!

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: Adin, David
Date: 9/20/2007 9:18:25 AM
To: Ed Van Scoy;  Sparky;  AA List
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted

(this is probably another bi-polar "I'm tired of this f***Ed up life"
bad day syndrome.)

Delete or bite me, as you mood strikes.



Notice:  Rat Bastard Racing will change its name to Recent Immigrant
Racing effective immediately.

Traced family roots indicate immigrations starting in the late 1600's
through 1907.  No felonies committed that I am aware of.  I will be the
Last of the line (luckily as I am the bottom of the barrel.)

My family has worked hard and contributed to society, including killing
many babies in Viet Nam.

I am sorry we are no longer welcome.  Arrangements for deportation will
commence when the house is sold.

David in Durango
(the message here is criminals are the problem,  not johnny-come-latelys
- of which we all are guilty.)

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Sep 20 10:49:14 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:49:14 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] SUSPECT: Re:  NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
In-Reply-To: <46F2A15E.000001.00540@TOM>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16683@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Looks like Tom was able to phrase my thoughts a little better.  I
apologize for any hurt caused my my blaggering fingers.



D



-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Bryant [mailto:saltracer at awwwsome.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:36 AM
To: Ed Van Scoy; Sparky; AA List; Adin, David
Subject: SUSPECT: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted



Let us all keep cool...It seems to me that this thread has gotten out of
focus. I suspect that we are all the offspring of immigrants. The
problem isn't immigrants, this country is richer because of them. Its
illegal immigrants that I along with many others oppose. I can't blame
anyone for wanting a better life, actually that is good. There is a
system to enter this country, use it. Illegals are a problem, period!



Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC



-------Original Message-------



From: Adin, David <mailto:DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>

Date: 9/20/2007 9:18:25 AM

To: Ed Van Scoy <mailto:ed at vetteracing.com> ;  Sparky
<mailto:sparky.2211 at cox.net> ;  AA List
<mailto:land-speed at autox.team.net>

Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted



(this is probably another bi-polar "I'm tired of this f***Ed up life"

bad day syndrome.)



Delete or bite me, as you mood strikes.







Notice:  Rat Bastard Racing will change its name to Recent Immigrant

Racing effective immediately.



Traced family roots indicate immigrations starting in the late 1600's

through 1907.  No felonies committed that I am aware of.  I will be the

Last of the line (luckily as I am the bottom of the barrel.)



My family has worked hard and contributed to society, including killing

many babies in Viet Nam.



I am sorry we are no longer welcome.  Arrangements for deportation will

commence when the house is sold.



David in Durango

(the message here is criminals are the problem,  not johnny-come-latelys

- of which we all are guilty.)









  <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=102287>

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image002.gif]

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Sep 20 10:52:49 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:52:49 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] speed record
Message-ID: <005201c7fba6$adad57f0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Fox news has a video tape of a mountain biker on a 45 degree down hill in the
snow over a measured mile at 130 mph. Didn't say if it was a timed mile or a
time trap at the end. At least it was white stuff but not flat
Glen

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Sep 20 10:53:39 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:53:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<46F2A15E.000001.00540@TOM>
Message-ID: <005901c7fba6$cbaa5870$6401a8c0@Glens>

Tom
Good words.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
To: "Ed Van Scoy" <ed at vetteracing.com>; "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>; "AA 
List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Adin David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted


> Let us all keep cool...It seems to me that this thread has gotten out of
> focus. I suspect that we are all the offspring of immigrants. The problem
> isn't immigrants, this country is richer because of them. Its illegal
> immigrants that I along with many others oppose. I can't blame anyone for
> wanting a better life, actually that is good. There is a system to enter
> this country, use it. Illegals are a problem, period!
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Adin, David
> Date: 9/20/2007 9:18:25 AM
> To: Ed Van Scoy;  Sparky;  AA List
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
>
> (this is probably another bi-polar "I'm tired of this f***Ed up life"
> bad day syndrome.)
>
> Delete or bite me, as you mood strikes.
>
>
>
> Notice:  Rat Bastard Racing will change its name to Recent Immigrant
> Racing effective immediately.
>
> Traced family roots indicate immigrations starting in the late 1600's
> through 1907.  No felonies committed that I am aware of.  I will be the
> Last of the line (luckily as I am the bottom of the barrel.)
>
> My family has worked hard and contributed to society, including killing
> many babies in Viet Nam.
>
> I am sorry we are no longer welcome.  Arrangements for deportation will
> commence when the house is sold.
>
> David in Durango
> (the message here is criminals are the problem,  not johnny-come-latelys
> - of which we all are guilty.)
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> faint_grain.jpg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 
> elephant_en.gif]
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 20 10:56:16 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:56:16 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
In-Reply-To: <46F2A15E.000001.00540@TOM>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<46F2A15E.000001.00540@TOM>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W180E9539D967F500C80184D9BA0@phx.gbl>

  as USUAL,  our friend Tom is SPOT ON with an eloquent reply...

          thank you sir,...



  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York,
          -------------------------- oooo ---------------------------
    Wise words from the ancients especially in light of today's 'troubles' :




    VULGAS VULT DECEPI     ( the (common) people wish to be deceived )



          -Phaedrus


ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
o

> Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:35:43 -0700
> From: saltracer at awwwsome.com


> Let us all keep cool...It seems to me that this thread has gotten out of
> focus. I suspect that we are all the offspring of immigrants. The problem
> isn't immigrants, this country is richer because of them. Its illegal
> immigrants that I along with many others oppose. I can't blame anyone for
> wanting a better life, actually that is good. There is a system to enter
> this country, use it. Illegals are a problem, period!
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Adin, David  > Date: 9/20/2007

>
> (this is probably another bi-polar "I'm tired of this f***Ed up life"
> bad day syndrome.)
>
> Delete or bite me, as you mood strikes.
>
>
> Notice:  Rat Bastard Racing will change its name to Recent Immigrant
> Racing effective immediately.
>
> Traced family roots indicate immigrations starting in the late 1600's
> through 1907.  No felonies committed that I am aware of.  I will be the
> Last of the line (luckily as I am the bottom of the barrel.)
>
> My family has worked hard and contributed to society, including killing
> many babies in Viet Nam.
>
> I am sorry we are no longer welcome.  Arrangements for deportation will
> commence when the house is sold.
>
> David in Durango

> (the message here is criminals are the problem,  not johnny-come-latelys
> - of which we all are guilty.)

_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Thu Sep 20 11:34:34 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:34:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR
In-Reply-To: <9689564.1190304330175.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <9689564.1190304330175.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C940C98EE7044A3CA0460540A2FA9ABC@LMS>

JD,
 I so admired the whole Gibbs effort---but I suspect they figured they were 
better off having a real good chance being # 1 with Toyota---because I think 
they understood they probabaly understood they were never going to be # 1 
team with GM.   I also will continue to cheer for Tony---just not when he 
rides around in a Toyota "decal"
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
Cc: "AA List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Non LSR


>I root for Tony because he drives a Fontana powered midget. ----but I wish 
>Gibbs would have stayed with GM.
>
>
> I have heard the AMP is another "Monster" type drink from Pepsi. Jr better 
> drive that one the most because it's not green.
>
> SR

From lsrvette at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 12:24:47 2007
From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:24:47 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] The Berekely
In-Reply-To: <001401c7fac8$eb3d8830$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <001401c7fac8$eb3d8830$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <015d01c7fbb3$8fd817d0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>

Thank you to everyone for the kind words of encouragement and to Keith for
selling me such a great car.  This cars capability is truly amazing and I am
very excited to be its new owner!  Based on it's documented history and the
wind tunnel data Keith provided, I truly believe 300mph is within the cars
capacity.  Of course our plans to start off with are much more humble...  

Gary Hensley has graciously agreed to partner with me in this pursuit.  We
will be joined by old fiends who have been absent from the salt for a few
years.  Collectively we plan to do great things with the old Berkeley while
having a lot of fun along the way.

We have already started sizing up the car for it's new engines and have
begun listing out a few other improvements and rebuilds that will be needed
along the way...

John


...to understand what you achieve in life one must fully experience the
journey...

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Keith Turk
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:25 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net; ECTALSR at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Land-speed] The Berekely

Just thought I'd mention that I sold the Berkeley to John Staiger,  He's
been
a list member for  several years and has worked with Gary Hensley on the
Bike
project...

Lots of reasons to sell the car... but mostly because I love working on that
Girly Camaro... and the Berk needed to run faster then I really had a desire
to run...

I'm looking forward to seeing it run again... Race cars aren't much good
sitting in the Garage.

Keith
_______________________________________________
lsrvette at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 12:40:02 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:40:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Traffic, non LSR
In-Reply-To: <700631.61118.qm@web30015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <700631.61118.qm@web30015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87EDC43A-1D35-48FA-903B-C92F10D75C3A@gmail.com>

On Sep 19, 2007, at 10:02 PM, Mike Lackey wrote:

> My commuter can get 60mpg and I never get blown off the road.  And  
> it already
> allows me special lane rights.  I don't see people flocking to buy  
> them
> though; most are biased towards having 4 wheels...
>
> Mike

I don't think it's the wheels that people are so attached to, it's  
the cage and air bags...

~Jon

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Sep 20 12:46:21 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:46:21 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] The Berekely
References: <001401c7fac8$eb3d8830$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<015d01c7fbb3$8fd817d0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>
Message-ID: <000e01c7fbb6$8a0e96a0$6401a8c0@Glens>

John and team
Now is the time to start a photo history of everything you do. When it's 
done you can go back and see what it really took to make it happen. Have a 
great time and enjoy the ride. A few years from now you will look back and 
enjoy it even more. Log everything you do and make templates and patterns 
for future use or changes.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Staiger" <lsrvette at yahoo.com>
To: "'Keith Turk'" <kturk at ala.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>; 
<ECTALSR at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] The Berekely


> Thank you to everyone for the kind words of encouragement and to Keith for
> selling me such a great car.  This cars capability is truly amazing and I 
> am
> very excited to be its new owner!  Based on it's documented history and 
> the
> wind tunnel data Keith provided, I truly believe 300mph is within the cars
> capacity.  Of course our plans to start off with are much more humble...
>
> Gary Hensley has graciously agreed to partner with me in this pursuit.  We
> will be joined by old fiends who have been absent from the salt for a few
> years.  Collectively we plan to do great things with the old Berkeley 
> while
> having a lot of fun along the way.
>
> We have already started sizing up the car for it's new engines and have
> begun listing out a few other improvements and rebuilds that will be 
> needed
> along the way...
>
> John
>
>
> ...to understand what you achieve in life one must fully experience the
> journey...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
> Keith Turk
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:25 AM
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net; ECTALSR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Land-speed] The Berekely
>
> Just thought I'd mention that I sold the Berkeley to John Staiger,  He's
> been
> a list member for  several years and has worked with Gary Hensley on the
> Bike
> project...
>
> Lots of reasons to sell the car... but mostly because I love working on 
> that
> Girly Camaro... and the Berk needed to run faster then I really had a 
> desire
> to run...
>
> I'm looking forward to seeing it run again... Race cars aren't much good
> sitting in the Garage.
>
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> lsrvette at yahoo.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 12:52:41 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:52:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
In-Reply-To: <bcf.1d4f9734.34231896@aol.com>
References: <bcf.1d4f9734.34231896@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8D1A40C4-8098-4194-9A18-A733616222F9@gmail.com>

On Sep 19, 2007, at 5:28 PM, RACE427 at aol.com wrote:

> Whatever you buy today as far as cars, even motorcycles, they are  
> light years
> ahead of what we used to own.   I cannot see how anyone can justify  
> spending
> 40-100K for a fiberglass kit car which are not safe and built like  
> garbage.
> To me it just looks like alot of Bling !!

I agree, people want something that has a certain look, and don't  
seem to care about the underlying foundation. Fiberglass does that  
very well... but isn't very structurally sound.

>      If I had 40 -50K to spend on a performance car it would be a new
> Corvette, best bang for the buck.   The car has plenty of power,  
> stops and turns
> better than anything else for that price.

I disagree, not because the Corvette isn't a wonderful car, by all  
means it is a monster on 4 wheels for it's price, but it's doesn't  
have the handling... For 40-50k, I would get an Arial Atom (now being  
built in the US by Brammo <www.brammo.com>, so no importing  
required!). Of course, many would argue that it's not really a "car"  
so much as a motorcycle with a couple extra wheels. To each his own,  
Top Gear tested the atom, and the Enzo Ferrari was the only car that  
mad a better time on their track, and that's good enough for me :-)

>      Back in 1968 a friend of mine owned a 38 Ford Coupe stuffed  
> with a 371
> Olds, Corvette 4 spd and an Olds rear and the car was really nice.   
> He wanted $
> 1700.00 for it.  I was 15, that amount of money was impossible for  
> me to
> earn.   I can only imagine what that all steel car would go for  
> today.   Surely,
> fiberglass repro junk cannot be worth what they are asking.   But,  
> yuppies will
> pay the price for anything !!!  LOL

Yea, people with too much money and not enough sense will pay way too  
much for something that looks like the car they wanted when they were  
a kid... and since most these cars are 50 or more years old, the only  
place you can find them still original is Cuba. They still run there  
too. But anyway, so stateside, all the repro companies are making  
their bucks off the suckers that will buy cheap reproductions...  
*shrugs* That's the law of supply and demand.

~Jon

From lsrvette at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 12:57:19 2007
From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:57:19 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] The Berekely
In-Reply-To: <000e01c7fbb6$8a0e96a0$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <001401c7fac8$eb3d8830$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<015d01c7fbb3$8fd817d0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>
	<000e01c7fbb6$8a0e96a0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <016201c7fbb8$1a655030$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>

Glen - Sage advise if I ever heard any...

Thanks,

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:46 PM
To: John Staiger; 'Keith Turk'; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] The Berekely

John and team
Now is the time to start a photo history of everything you do. When it's 
done you can go back and see what it really took to make it happen. Have a 
great time and enjoy the ride. A few years from now you will look back and 
enjoy it even more. Log everything you do and make templates and patterns 
for future use or changes.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Staiger" <lsrvette at yahoo.com>
To: "'Keith Turk'" <kturk at ala.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>; 
<ECTALSR at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] The Berekely


> Thank you to everyone for the kind words of encouragement and to Keith for
> selling me such a great car.  This cars capability is truly amazing and I 
> am
> very excited to be its new owner!  Based on it's documented history and 
> the
> wind tunnel data Keith provided, I truly believe 300mph is within the cars
> capacity.  Of course our plans to start off with are much more humble...
>
> Gary Hensley has graciously agreed to partner with me in this pursuit.  We
> will be joined by old fiends who have been absent from the salt for a few
> years.  Collectively we plan to do great things with the old Berkeley 
> while
> having a lot of fun along the way.
>
> We have already started sizing up the car for it's new engines and have
> begun listing out a few other improvements and rebuilds that will be 
> needed
> along the way...
>
> John
>
>
> ...to understand what you achieve in life one must fully experience the
> journey...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
> Keith Turk
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:25 AM
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net; ECTALSR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Land-speed] The Berekely
>
> Just thought I'd mention that I sold the Berkeley to John Staiger,  He's
> been
> a list member for  several years and has worked with Gary Hensley on the
> Bike
> project...
>
> Lots of reasons to sell the car... but mostly because I love working on 
> that
> Girly Camaro... and the Berk needed to run faster then I really had a 
> desire
> to run...
>
> I'm looking forward to seeing it run again... Race cars aren't much good
> sitting in the Garage.
>
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> lsrvette at yahoo.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 13:00:32 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:00:32 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] speed record
In-Reply-To: <005201c7fba6$adad57f0$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <005201c7fba6$adad57f0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <81534061-517B-411A-88E5-5B5EF9F4041B@gmail.com>

On Sep 20, 2007, at 9:52 AM, Glen Barrett wrote:

> Fox news has a video tape of a mountain biker on a 45 degree down  
> hill in the
> snow over a measured mile at 130 mph. Didn't say if it was a timed  
> mile or a
> time trap at the end. At least it was white stuff but not flat
> Glen

For what it's worth, I ride mountain bikes, and there's NO WAY you're  
getting me going that fast on a bike... I don't care if it's snow or  
high density foam or goose down, when you wipe out on a mountain  
bike, downhill, it's usually (for me) the front tire that causes  
it...  this leads to me hurdling the bike and outrunning it as it  
crashes to the ground... better hope you can fly at them speeds. I'll  
pass.

~Jon

From jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 20 14:00:11 2007
From: jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net (John Thornton)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:00:11 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
In-Reply-To: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <46F2D14B.90905@sbcglobal.net>

Well said.
Since I'm a Cherokee you're all immigrants to me.
Although those first immigrants were sure guilty of lots of killing too.

John T.



Adin, David wrote:
> (this is probably another bi-polar "I'm tired of this f***Ed up life"
> bad day syndrome.)
>
> Delete or bite me, as you mood strikes.
>
>
>
> Notice:  Rat Bastard Racing will change its name to Recent Immigrant
> Racing effective immediately.
>
> Traced family roots indicate immigrations starting in the late 1600's
> through 1907.  No felonies committed that I am aware of.  I will be the
> last of the line (luckily as I am the bottom of the barrel.)
>
> My family has worked hard and contributed to society, including killing
> many babies in Viet Nam.
>
> I am sorry we are no longer welcome.  Arrangements for deportation will
> commence when the house is sold.
>
> David in Durango
> (the message here is criminals are the problem,  not johnny-come-latelys
> - of which we all are guilty.)

From gary at arrowracing.org  Thu Sep 20 13:03:59 2007
From: gary at arrowracing.org (Gary C. Hensley)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:03:59 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Amen
Message-ID: <006b01c7fbb9$00dfd8a0$0600000a@Presario2100>

Agree.....
Gary C Hensley
Phone: 248-670-0883 
Team Arrow Racing #1150B 
World Land Speed Record Holder
S-G-650  210.728 mph August 21, 2004
Fastest 500 cc Motorcycle on the Planet 228.559mph August 18, 2006 
HYPERLINK "http://www.arrowracing.org/"http://www.arrowracing.org/
 

 

-- 
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007
5:44 PM

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 201.276sm.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of tech.gif]

From jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 20 14:03:12 2007
From: jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net (John Thornton)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:03:12 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
In-Reply-To: <46F2A15E.000001.00540@TOM>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<46F2A15E.000001.00540@TOM>
Message-ID: <46F2D200.1000209@sbcglobal.net>

Tom Bryant wrote:
> Illegals are a problem, period!
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>   

Your writing this does not make it so, period!
They are a problem to YOU not to the country as a whole.

John Thornton

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Sep 20 13:16:05 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:16:05 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net><46F2A15E.000001.00540@TOM>
	<46F2D200.1000209@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <002e01c7fbba$b1a57d10$6401a8c0@Glens>

Looks like a good time to drop this subject before someone gets pissed off 
and another war gets started.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Thornton" <jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted


> Tom Bryant wrote:
>> Illegals are a problem, period!
>>
>> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>>
>
> Your writing this does not make it so, period!
> They are a problem to YOU not to the country as a whole.
>
> John Thornton
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gary at arrowracing.org  Thu Sep 20 13:21:17 2007
From: gary at arrowracing.org (Gary C. Hensley)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:21:17 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Bob Denton
Message-ID: <007101c7fbbb$6d08d520$0600000a@Presario2100>

Bob,
 
Hurry up and get well we need you here in Michigan.
 
I miss going to your shop and drooling over your collection of cool cars.
 
 
Gary C Hensley
Phone: 248-670-0883 
Team Arrow Racing #1150B 
World Land Speed Record Holder
S-G-650  210.728 mph August 21, 2004
Fastest 500 cc Motorcycle on the Planet 228.559mph August 18, 2006 
HYPERLINK "http://www.arrowracing.org/"http://www.arrowracing.org/
 

 

-- 
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007
5:44 PM

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 201.276sm.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of tech.gif]

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 13:21:06 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:21:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
In-Reply-To: <46F2D200.1000209@sbcglobal.net>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<46F2A15E.000001.00540@TOM> <46F2D200.1000209@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <6DE13E91-0AE5-4F55-960D-3C77F5B62525@gmail.com>

On Sep 20, 2007, at 1:03 PM, John Thornton wrote:

> Tom Bryant wrote:
>> Illegals are a problem, period!
>>
>> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>>
>
> Your writing this does not make it so, period!
> They are a problem to YOU not to the country as a whole.
>
> John Thornton

Unfortunately, that's incorrect. Illegals put a burden on our entire  
system. Not saying that our system is any good. That's another  
problem, but unrelated to illegals.

See, what happens, is they come here, and they get a bunch of under  
the table type jobs, and then start using services, like the  
Emergency room and such, and misc other public services, but they  
don't pay any taxes. They get caught, they're deported home and have  
to come back again. There's no reason for them not to.

The thing is, the USA is a melting pot... Our immigration plan should  
work like a melting pot, where you add some shavings, and they melt  
into the mix, you get them immigrants speaking english, and learning  
some of the culture before you add more, otherwise they just make  
their own little communities. That's what's happening today, just  
like if you threw a bunch of several pound blocks into a melting pot,  
instead of the shavings... they're not going to melt down and  
conform, so really, the problem isn't that we have immigrants, or  
even that we have illegal immigrants... it's just that we have too  
many coming at once, and we can't absorb them into the communities we  
already have. It's not our problem, it's every other person that  
wants to immigrates problem. Sorta like the fire marshall putting a  
max occupancy sign on the door of a building... it's not that he's  
trying to keep people out, it's just that the facility can only  
handle so much. But it's our facility, and so it's an issue that  
needs to be addressed by us, so we can allow more immigrants.

Watch this simple example: <http://video.google.com/videoplay? 
docid=4094926727128068265>

~Jon

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Sep 20 14:38:48 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:38:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
In-Reply-To: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D1667F@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <46F2DA58.5080601@mayfco.com>

So, David, are you an illegal?  I don't think any one has a problem with 
folk who come through the proper gates to be in America. It is the crush 
of  illegals that we are all concerned with.

mayf
Adin, David wrote:

>(this is probably another bi-polar "I'm tired of this f***Ed up life"
>bad day syndrome.)
>
>Delete or bite me, as you mood strikes.
>
>
>
>Notice:  Rat Bastard Racing will change its name to Recent Immigrant
>Racing effective immediately.
>
>Traced family roots indicate immigrations starting in the late 1600's
>through 1907.  No felonies committed that I am aware of.  I will be the
>last of the line (luckily as I am the bottom of the barrel.)
>
>My family has worked hard and contributed to society, including killing
>many babies in Viet Nam.
>
>I am sorry we are no longer welcome.  Arrangements for deportation will
>commence when the house is sold.
>
>David in Durango
>(the message here is criminals are the problem,  not johnny-come-latelys
>- of which we all are guilty.)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
>Behalf Of Ed Van Scoy
>Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:51 AM
>To: Sparky; AA List
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant
>
>Also, a fact you won't read in the paper, 5 out of the last 7cops shot
>in the line of duty were illegals. Oh, by the way,Phoenix is a Sanctuary
>City....... coincidence?
>Ed
>
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Sparky [mailto:sparky.2211 at cox.net]
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 09:03 PM
>>To: 'AA List'
>>Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant
>>
>>Thanks to all who responded!!!!!
>>As to the several of you who felt that there was NO threat from the
>>    
>>
>Southern
>  
>
>>Border---you might not want to tell that to the new widow of slain
>>    
>>
>Phoenix
>  
>
>>police officer Nick Erfle.
>>He stopped three pedisterians for jay walking yesterday. One was an
>>illegal scum bag who was deported last year from Phoenix---he whipped
>>    
>>
>out a
>  
>
>>gun and shot the officer in the head---thank God he was shot a short
>>    
>>
>time
>  
>
>>later as he was aparently about to shoot his hostage.
>>Sparky
>>AA/_ L 2211
>>_______________________________________________
>>ed at vetteracing.com
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>davidadin at mercydurango.org
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep 20 16:06:05 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:06:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (lsr bio-diesel motorcycle) Bio-Beemer breaks record:
 Bikes & Quads: New Models: Wheels24
Message-ID: <000501c7fbd2$70e44320$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.wheels24.co.za:80/Wheels24/BikesQuads/NewModels/0,,1369-1962-1963_
2186522,00.html

bio-diesel motorcycle sets record at bub
dale
trying to work on 57 chev, to much computer in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Sep 20 16:08:27 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:08:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non-lsr cole scego design: human powered land speed
	record
Message-ID: <000501c7fbd2$c56d7f60$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://colescegodesign.blogspot.com:80/2007/09/human-powered-land-speed-recor
d.html

they are trying today for the human powered record at battle mt, nv
dale

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 20 18:41:41 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:41:41 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Overpriced Junk !
Message-ID: <092120070041.27437.46F313450006E63D00006B2D2200734830CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Might work in the South but I couldn't see me driving it in Utah.
I want a body, air conditioning and a heater.  When you have four 
seasons an Arial Atom is really impractical.

Wes

> 
> I disagree, not because the Corvette isn't a wonderful car, by all  
> means it is a monster on 4 wheels for it's price, but it's doesn't  
> have the handling... For 40-50k, I would get an Arial Atom (now being  
> built in the US by Brammo <www.brammo.com>, so no importing  
> required!). Of course, many would argue that it's not really a "car"  
> so much as a motorcycle with a couple extra wheels. To each his own,  
> Top Gear tested the atom, and the Enzo Ferrari was the only car that  
> mad a better time on their track, and that's good enough for me :-)

From saltfevr at q.com  Thu Sep 20 19:45:58 2007
From: saltfevr at q.com (TOM M SHANNON)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:45:58 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS 120mph Go Kart Video
Message-ID: <BAY122-W134852F0C420249C48D8CDC9BB0@phx.gbl>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac_j7CIjdS4

If video doesn't launch go to: http://www.youtube.com  type salt flat ,go kart
in search window. These folks from Canada had a wonderful time over at the
130mph club track parallel to the Salduro Dike. Husband and wife kept trying
to better their respective speeds. I thoroughly enjoyed my  2 1/2 days working
with the 130mph club guys!
  PS You'll love the parachute deployement!! They're coming back next yr!

Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 21:42:26 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] News service
Message-ID: <448747.4280.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

"to much computer in pahrump"
   
  Then unsubscribe to the news service and stop forwarding to the list.
   
  DW
  


       
---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! 
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 21 09:26:58 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:26:58 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Spam?
Message-ID: <092120071526.2682.46F3E2C20006D12200000A7A2207300793CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Do not open any email from wes at saltflats.com 

I have no idea if they are hacked or spam, but they are not from me or my computer.

My computer does not identify itself that way, legitimate emails will come from <wester6935 at comcast.net>

Wes

From gary at arrowracing.org  Fri Sep 21 09:44:44 2007
From: gary at arrowracing.org (Gary C. Hensley)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:44:44 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Bob & Glen
Message-ID: <007d01c7fc66$554816c0$0600000a@Presario2100>

Bob, your on. This car is way cool, way fast and will take really good
photos too.
 
Glen, we still have at least another month to go on the shop before we start
in earnest on the car but I promise we will take lots of pictures when we do
get started. John has already started an ABC list for after Speed week 2008.
There is lots we can do with this car but like Keith said we need to get it
to the races with as few changes as possible and then after we have some
real experience with it we can intelligently move forward with upgrades and
changes. 
Gary C Hensley
Phone: 248-670-0883 
Team Arrow Racing #1150B 
World Land Speed Record Holder
S-G-650  210.728 mph August 21, 2004
Fastest 500 cc Motorcycle on the Planet 228.559mph August 18, 2006 
HYPERLINK "http://www.arrowracing.org/"http://www.arrowracing.org/
 

 

-- 
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007
5:44 PM

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 201.276sm.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of tech.gif]

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 21 09:53:06 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:53:06 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Spam?
In-Reply-To: <092120071526.2682.46F3E2C20006D12200000A7A2207300793CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
References: <092120071526.2682.46F3E2C20006D12200000A7A2207300793CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W112EFCBEB19CBD214E4EDBD9BB0@phx.gbl>

THANKS WES         WILL (not)  DO



  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York

          -------------------------- oooo ---------------------------


    Wise words from the ancients especially in light of today's 'troubles' :




    VULGAS VULT DECEPI     ( the (common) people wish to be deceived )



          -Phaedrus

9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999


> From: wester6935 at comcast.net
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:26:58 +0000
> Subject: [Land-speed] Spam?
>
> Do not open any email from wes at saltflats.com
>
> I have no idea if they are hacked or spam, but they are not from me or my
computer.
>
> My computer does not identify itself that way, legitimate emails will come
from <wester6935 at comcast.net>

                      >> Wes

_________________________________________________________________
Gear up for Halo. 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. Its our way
of saying thanks for using Windows Live.
http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_WLHMTxt_2

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Sep 21 10:45:07 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:45:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Mountain Biker 130mph Downhill in Snow
In-Reply-To: <005201c7fba6$adad57f0$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <005201c7fba6$adad57f0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <01d501c7fc6e$c4d7fd40$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Glen;

Did they say he was in the middle of an avalanche?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ  


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Glen Barrett
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:53 AM
To: landspeed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] speed record

Fox news has a video tape of a mountain biker on a 45 degree down hill in
the
snow over a measured mile at 130 mph. Didn't say if it was a timed mile or a
time trap at the end. At least it was white stuff but not flat
Glen

From karhu at california.com  Fri Sep 21 16:52:18 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:52:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non-lsr Mountain Biker 130mph Downhill in Snow
References: <005201c7fba6$adad57f0$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<01d501c7fc6e$c4d7fd40$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <008701c7fca2$10636780$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

Hmm, terminal speed for a falling body is 120mph or so, right?  But is that in
a tight tuck dive or flared out (methinks the latter)?  How do you get a bike
wheel to get traction in snow?  Did it have wheels or skis?  So many
questions...
Benn
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: neil at dbelltech.com
  To: 'Glen Barrett' ; 'landspeed at autox.team.net'
  Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 9:45 AM
  Subject: [Land-speed] Mountain Biker 130mph Downhill in Snow


  Glen;

  Did they say he was in the middle of an avalanche?

  Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


  -----Original Message-----
  From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
  [mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
  Glen Barrett
  Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:53 AM
  To: landspeed at autox.team.net
  Subject: [Land-speed] speed record

  Fox news has a video tape of a mountain biker on a 45 degree down hill in
  the
  snow over a measured mile at 130 mph. Didn't say if it was a timed mile or
a
  time trap at the end. At least it was white stuff but not flat
  Glen
  _______________________________________________
  karhu at california.com

  Land-speed mailing list

  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From karhu at california.com  Fri Sep 21 16:57:58 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:57:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non-lsr Mountain Biker 130mph Downhill in Snow
References: <005201c7fba6$adad57f0$6401a8c0@Glens><01d501c7fc6e$c4d7fd40$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<008701c7fca2$10636780$6501a8c0@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c7fca2$db190520$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

Here 'tis gang:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE-za2v8XPM

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 21 19:11:00 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:11:00 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] LSR--BOOK?
Message-ID: <003701c7fcb5$70ba82e0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Somebody on the List recently recommended "FLAT OUT", the motorcycle land
speed record book by Rocky Robinson--I just finished it and it was a great
read, so thanks to who recommended it.

So guys & girls, please take a lot of photos and videos and think about
writing about your exploits when reaching geezerhood (if not before!).

Meanwhile, any other recommendations for LSR related full length books ?

I can find a lot of books by searching the web, but recommendations by List
members would carry extra weight.

Lance

From dwright at genetics.utah.edu  Mon Sep 17 09:49:32 2007
From: dwright at genetics.utah.edu (Dan Wright)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:49:32 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] "Liner #667 Video request
Message-ID: <CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF65C5796D9F6@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>

Hi
On Friday at World of Speed, we crashed our G/FS #667.   The driver was not
injured, but the damage to the car will probably not "Buff Out".
If anyone has video or still photos of that crash please contact me off line,
we would like to better understand the accident.
It seems we had an unintended parachute deployment of a parachute that then
burst and destabilized the car.
Again, we are seeking video of that incident.
Thanks.

Dan Wright
Daniel.wright at genetics.utah.edu<mailto:Daniel.wright at genetics.utah.edu>

A GUY WHO DRIVES
A CAR WIDE OPEN
IS NOT THINKIN'
HE'S JUST HOPIN'
Burma Shave

From david_dymaxion at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 01:16:28 2007
From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com (David Dymaxion)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 00:16:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Electric Barstool sets Land Speed Record!
Message-ID: <284855.85476.qm@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The results aren't posted on the saltflats website yet, but I was there and I
saw it happen! Yes, ladies and gentlemen, 48 miles per hour on an electric
barstool! You can see some pictures, video, and commentary on:
http://www.explodingdinosaurs.com/saltflats/2007worldofspeed/barstool

Enjoy!
_____________________________________________________________________________
_______
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you
all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Sep 22 08:37:22 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:37:22 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR ... I was always told...
Message-ID: <092220071437.25634.46F528A2000917B9000064222206424613CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

If you dig straight down from where you live where will you end up?

http://www.ubasics.com/dighole/

I truly believe you can find almost anything on the internet. 
Enjoy your Saturday while I go to the BYU-AFA game in Provo.

Wes

From karhu at california.com  Sat Sep 22 11:15:06 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:15:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] LSR--BOOK?
References: <003701c7fcb5$70ba82e0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <002501c7fd3c$1f79f5a0$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

When in NZ this summer, Casey Hill gave me a copy of "Three Times in a Row" by
Bill Ward (2006).  It was a quick (118 pages), fun, personal account of his
B'ville efforts.  The back cover reads:  "Everybody who has raced at
Bonneville has a story to tell of their efforts, achievements and even their
disappointments and the fascination the place has for them.  This is mine."
I think everyone who has ever campaigned a vehicle will be able to identify
with his triumphs and tribulations.
Benn
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: joseph lance
  To: LAND-SPEED @ AUTOX.TEAM .NET
  Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:11 PM
  Subject: [Land-speed] LSR--BOOK?


  Somebody on the List recently recommended "FLAT OUT", the motorcycle land
  speed record book by Rocky Robinson--I just finished it and it was a great
  read, so thanks to who recommended it.

  So guys & girls, please take a lot of photos and videos and think about
  writing about your exploits when reaching geezerhood (if not before!).

  Meanwhile, any other recommendations for LSR related full length books ?

  I can find a lot of books by searching the web, but recommendations by List
  members would carry extra weight.

  Lance

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sun Sep 23 08:45:00 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:45:00 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton ?
Message-ID: <ce2.1c0b0c21.3427d5ec@aol.com>

Anybody got anything to share about the Super Bike Top Street High Fast  
Shootout thing going on in NC?
Due to an unfortunate onset of the Geezer Wheezes and accompanying  
irregularity brought on by high doses of antibiotics that are unconducive to  
FireSuits, I ain't there.
Looks like a great, and warm, weekend for racing down there.
Bob, close to home,W



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From ecpurinton at wildblue.net  Sun Sep 23 09:14:40 2007
From: ecpurinton at wildblue.net (Ed Purinton)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:14:40 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton?
Message-ID: <46F682E0.90104@wildblue.net>

Bob,

     Sharing your frustrations due to a combination of various other 
reasons here in the territories of Western MA.

     No, haven't heard anything yet.  No one from here could make this 
meet.  If all goes as planned, should be a couple of rigs from our area 
down there next month.

     Hope you get better and we can see you next month.  Take care,

                                                       Ed Purinton, on 
the sunny side of the home ridge.

From gary_ellen at msn.com  Sun Sep 23 09:44:24 2007
From: gary_ellen at msn.com (Ellen Wilkinson)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 09:44:24 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton?
References: <46F682E0.90104@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV132B44CB3DD3A2A695EBF3F9B50@phx.gbl>

This link came through with some pictures from it.  Not much more info.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210296


Gary & Ellen Wilkinson
Utah Salt Flats Racing Association
World of Speed Sept. 17 - 20, 2008
www.saltflats.com -See you on the Salt!

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 23 11:59:47 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 13:59:47 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton?
References: <46F682E0.90104@wildblue.net>
	<BAY103-DAV132B44CB3DD3A2A695EBF3F9B50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000301c7fe0b$93067dc0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Thanks for the link to Scott's Maxton photos and videos.

Liked the #9530 coupe with the nail head Buick V8.

The Crossley coupe with the straight eight Buick is a beautiful 
machine--does it belong to a List member ? anybody have more details, did it 
run ?

Both Buicks look like they're basically street legal with plates in the good 
old hot rod tradition.

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ellen Wilkinson" <gary_ellen at msn.com>
To: <ecpurinton at wildblue.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Maxton?


> This link came through with some pictures from it.  Not much more info.
>
> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210296
>
>
> Gary & Ellen Wilkinson
> Utah Salt Flats Racing Association
> World of Speed Sept. 17 - 20, 2008
> www.saltflats.com -See you on the Salt!

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Sep 23 14:52:45 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:52:45 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR John Force hurt in top in accident
Message-ID: <004a01c7fe23$b1b41cb0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Kenny Bernstein drifted into the left lane and hit John Force putting him in
the wall. 1st report is two broken legs, foot and hand injuries. Full story on
www.nhra.com.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Sep 23 15:42:25 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:42:25 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR John Force hurt in top in accident
References: <004a01c7fe23$b1b41cb0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <005c01c7fe2a$a1ee50a0$6401a8c0@Glens>

See Update and Video on nhra.com It looks like John may have had a chute 
tear and turn the car into Kenny. The 1st statement was from NHRA saying 
that Kenny drifted into the lane John was in. There is a statement by Kenny 
on the web site as well.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 2:52 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR John Force hurt in top in accident


> Kenny Bernstein drifted into the left lane and hit John Force putting him 
> in
> the wall. 1st report is two broken legs, foot and hand injuries. Full 
> story on
> www.nhra.com.
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun Sep 23 16:18:01 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:18:01 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR John Force hurt in top in accident
Message-ID: <001301c7fe2f$9b39e850$9f3d2544@john>

It looked like the top fuel final at Indy in 1970 where Jim Nichol's clutch 
cut his frame in half .



> See Update and Video on nhra.com It looks like John may have had a chute
> tear and turn the car into Kenny. The 1st statement was from NHRA saying
> that Kenny drifted into the lane John was in. There is a statement by 
> Kenny
> on the web site as well.
> Glen

From john.szalay at att.net  Sun Sep 23 17:58:17 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:58:17 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR John Force hurt in top in accident
Message-ID: <092320072358.3050.46F6FD990003CC6400000BEA2160281060970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

 They just showed slow-mo video on ESPN2 
it appears John goes across the line and hits Kenny.
nasty crash..

 will probably reshow it soon..
-------------- Original message from "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>: -------------- 


> See Update and Video on nhra.com It looks like John may have had a chute  tear and turn the car into Kenny. The 1st statement was from NHRA saying that Kenny drifted into the lane John was in. There is a statement by Kenny > on the web site as well. 
> Glen 

From john.szalay at att.net  Sun Sep 23 18:10:37 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:10:37 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR John Force hurt in top in accident
Message-ID: <092420070010.14511.46F7007D00013BB5000038AF2160281060970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

 they Just stated that the video will be reshown at about 8EDT on ESPN2
the one NHRA is from the front the one on ESPN2 was from the rear view

watched the video on the NHRA page and from what I see, Kenny drifted
into the lane cones and flipped one into Johns car causing him to swerve.
either from a blown tire or chute malfunction.


-------------- Original message from "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>: -------------- 


> Kenny Bernstein drifted into the left lane and hit John Force putting him in 
> the wall. 1st report is two broken legs, foot and hand injuries. Full story on 
> www.nhra.com. 

From john.szalay at att.net  Sun Sep 23 18:34:14 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:34:14 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR John Force hurt in top in accident
Message-ID: <092420070034.3032.46F706060003073800000BD82160281060970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

Appears not to be a cone, but one of the lane timing light boxes.


and the video will be shown just prior to 9EDT on ESPN2

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun Sep 23 18:55:49 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:55:49 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR John Force hurt in top in accident
References: <092420070010.14511.46F7007D00013BB5000038AF2160281060970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c7fe45$a659f3e0$9f3d2544@john>

John I think if you look closely Force's chassis broke in half just as his 
chutes come out and the back half with him in it stayed in the left lane .


> watched the video on the NHRA page and from what I see, Kenny drifted
> into the lane cones and flipped one into Johns car causing him to swerve.
> either from a blown tire or chute malfunction.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Sep 23 19:33:33 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:33:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident
Message-ID: <46F713ED.909@mayfco.com>

I just rewatched the accident all over again from several different 
vantage points. ANd I am sure that everyone who sees it will have a 
different view and opinion. Right at the finish line, Kenny hit the 
timing light boxes and lights. One box actually went behind John's car 
but other stuff, like maybe the light itself bounced off the far wall 
and came back towards JOhn's car on the driver's side. Both cars were 
past the finish line. And it looked like a clutch explosion or the tires 
shook the car to pieces. Both rear tires were deflated before it came 
apart.  Could the thingy that went across the track and back at John cut 
the tires? Yeah to me it could have.  Then after the chutes were out on 
both cars the Castrol car came apart. The rear continued down track 
while the front moved over and crashed Kenny and knocked his body off as 
well. Then the rear of John's car drifted back to the wall on Kenney' 
side where it came to rest.  When they got John out and the rear section 
was on the transporter, there was no frame pieces remaining from the 
front edge of the seat forward.  Some how I seriously doubt that a 
parachute yank would have separated the car like that. So it was some 
sort of mechanical failure which broke that part: either violent tire 
shake due to flat tires or explosion. Since John is reasonably ok for 
such a wreck, I am sure he will have a pretty fare story of what 
happened from his perspective.


No flames, no arguments, just my opinion and that ain't worth much.

mayf.

From ecpurinton at wildblue.net  Sun Sep 23 19:45:52 2007
From: ecpurinton at wildblue.net (Ed Purinton)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:45:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton?
Message-ID: <46F716D0.1030507@wildblue.net>

Gary & Ellen,

     Thanks for the heads up on the link, probably would have gotten by 
me otherwise.  Hope to get back to Mecca some one of these years, WOS 
starting to look like a very good option to me.

                               Ed

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Sun Sep 23 20:44:31 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:44:31 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's 1927 T Roadster build on TLC
Message-ID: <cfc.1b449462.34287e8f@aol.com>

The Coddington T has got me thinking about roadster rollcages. I don't have a 
rule book, so maybe it is a rule to have a cage taller than most kids swing 
set. This must give the same aero numbers as a motorcycle strapped to the roof 
rack of the family wagon. Is the woman standing up in the car like a Divco 
milk truck driver or what? Top fuel car cages seam to work well and look a hell 
of a lot racer. Bob in connecticut. 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 23 20:49:49 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 02:49:49 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident
In-Reply-To: <46F713ED.909@mayfco.com>
References: <46F713ED.909@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W277F1005DAE01EF8279319D9B60@phx.gbl>

     Christ.   they,    -and we are so fortunate tonight...

      easily,.......       it could have become much, much worse.

    Thank God.


cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York,


  -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,

  -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,

   -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway

   -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...

   -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway

   -2325 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats

         and never more than a few feet from a cold one

========================================

> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:33:33 -0700
> From: drmayf at mayfco.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident
>
> I just rewatched the accident all over again from several different
> vantage points. ANd I am sure that everyone who sees it will have a
> different view and opinion. Right at the finish line, Kenny hit the
> timing light boxes and lights. One box actually went behind John's car
> but other stuff, like maybe the light itself bounced off the far wall
> and came back towards JOhn's car on the driver's side. Both cars were
> past the finish line. And it looked like a clutch explosion or the tires
> shook the car to pieces. Both rear tires were deflated before it came
> apart.  Could the thingy that went across the track and back at John cut
> the tires? Yeah to me it could have.  Then after the chutes were out on
> both cars the Castrol car came apart. The rear continued down track
> while the front moved over and crashed Kenny and knocked his body off as
> well. Then the rear of John's car drifted back to the wall on Kenney'
> side where it came to rest.  When they got John out and the rear section
> was on the transporter, there was no frame pieces remaining from the
> front edge of the seat forward.  Some how I seriously doubt that a
> parachute yank would have separated the car like that. So it was some
> sort of mechanical failure which broke that part: either violent tire
> shake due to flat tires or explosion. Since John is reasonably ok for
> such a wreck, I am sure he will have a pretty fare story of what
> happened from his perspective.
>
>
> No flames, no arguments, just my opinion and that ain't worth much.
>
> mayf.

_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Sep 23 21:24:35 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:24:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's 1927 T Roadster build on TLC
References: <cfc.1b449462.34287e8f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c7fe5a$7007ce60$6501a8c0@S>

Bob--
The tall roll cages in street roadsters are a product of the short 27T
roadster cockpit, tall drivers, not enough reading of the rulebook,
inexperience in building racecars and maybe a bit of "we can't learn
anything from anyone else" attitude.
And yes, they don't help "aero" any.  A number of noteworthy street roadster
records have been set by cars with later bodies that have more room to
package the driver.  There are now available stretched 27T street rod
bodies.  I, for one, will scream like a wounded eagle if there is any
attempt to make them legal in SCTA.  That extra 4" of cockpit can result in
a substantial lowering of the roll cage and enough less drag to give a
serious advantage.
Interesting to note is tall roll cages show in some of the lower
displacement SCCA road racing classes.  They look really wierd on the little
roadsters.  It's my understanding that they have to have some kind of loop
at the top so a wrecker crane truck can quickly pick them up and get them
off the race course when they crash or break.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Want1937hd at aol.com>
To: <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>; <yesford at clear.net.nz>
Cc: <sparky.2211 at cox.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Coddington's 1927 T Roadster build on TLC
> The Coddington T has got me thinking about roadster rollcages. I don't
have a
> rule book, so maybe it is a rule to have a cage taller than most kids
swing
> set. ....... Bob in connecticut.

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 23 21:44:27 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:44:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's 1927 T Roadster build on TLC
In-Reply-To: <cfc.1b449462.34287e8f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <953566.31648.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

In my opinion, it's the old "I gotta see the front tires" syndrome. Some do not understand the sit on the floor deal.
   
  DW

Want1937hd at aol.com wrote:
  The Coddington T has got me thinking about roadster rollcages. I don't have a 
rule book, so maybe it is a rule to have a cage taller than most kids swing 
set. This must give the same aero numbers as a motorcycle strapped to the roof 
rack of the family wagon. Is the woman standing up in the car like a Divco 
milk truck driver or what? Top fuel car cages seam to work well and look a hell 
of a lot racer. Bob in connecticut. 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Sep 24 10:51:56 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:51:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Coddington's 1927 T Roadster build on TLC
References: <953566.31648.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c7fecb$39da9130$6501a8c0@S>

Right on Dan!!  You're not the only old timer that has made that suggestion
to me.
The rule book requires the driver (which arguably includes the helmet he
wears) to be within the confines of the cockpit.  This is easily
defined by the front surface of the headrest.  Rear supports for the
headrest and the two rear bars of the headrest can go further aft.  It's
quite simple to notch the body for these members, reinforce it and build a
small removable plate out of the piece of the turtledeck you had to cut out
thereby allowing body removal eithout disturbing the cage.  Another trick as
commonly used in the roadster and modified roadster classes is to put the
gas pedal up on the transmission tunnel next to the firewall.  That's how my
project is laid out and my 6 foot tall son, David, fits in very comfortably
in 20 suit with all proper helmet clearances to the cage top.  We've got an
old Kirkey aluminum seat but it's rear corner is against the floor with the
front of the seat tilted up 1-3/4 inches where a cage crossmember with seat
mounts passes under it.  The seat has nice side supports; but there is no
real reason why side supports couldn't just be added with the floor being
the seat bottom.  A clever builder could even make them adjustable to fit
different hip widths.
Ed Weldon,  923 still in the barn.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Coddington's 1927 T Roadster build on TLC


> In my opinion, it's the old "I gotta see the front tires" syndrome. Some
do not understand the sit on the floor deal.
>   DW

> Want1937hd at aol.com wrote:
>   The Coddington T has got me thinking about roadster rollcages. I don't
have a
> rule book, so maybe it is a rule to have a cage taller than most kids
swing
> set.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Sep 24 11:08:13 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:08:13 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident
References: <46F713ED.909@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c7fecd$7e26a0c0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Just to clarify one thing he center box's are Styrofoam 12" square with a 4" 
reflector on each side, They are soft material not wood or other material..I 
too watched the tape at least 20 times and I don't think either of the 
blocks hit the car or chutes. There was also a top fuel car that had a tire 
coming apart and chunking pieces off. I looked like the right rear went down 
1st. The chassis is designed to brake in half to get rid of weight. Or it 
could have been a chassis failure due to the stresses they put on them. They 
are CM steel and more fragile. I will wait for the experts to determine what 
really happened. The car has load cells and sensors that they were down 
loading last night.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 7:33 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident


>I just rewatched the accident all over again from several different
> vantage points. ANd I am sure that everyone who sees it will have a
> different view and opinion. Right at the finish line, Kenny hit the
> timing light boxes and lights. One box actually went behind John's car
> but other stuff, like maybe the light itself bounced off the far wall
> and came back towards JOhn's car on the driver's side. Both cars were
> past the finish line. And it looked like a clutch explosion or the tires
> shook the car to pieces. Both rear tires were deflated before it came
> apart.  Could the thingy that went across the track and back at John cut
> the tires? Yeah to me it could have.  Then after the chutes were out on
> both cars the Castrol car came apart. The rear continued down track
> while the front moved over and crashed Kenny and knocked his body off as
> well. Then the rear of John's car drifted back to the wall on Kenney'
> side where it came to rest.  When they got John out and the rear section
> was on the transporter, there was no frame pieces remaining from the
> front edge of the seat forward.  Some how I seriously doubt that a
> parachute yank would have separated the car like that. So it was some
> sort of mechanical failure which broke that part: either violent tire
> shake due to flat tires or explosion. Since John is reasonably ok for
> such a wreck, I am sure he will have a pretty fare story of what
> happened from his perspective.
>
>
> No flames, no arguments, just my opinion and that ain't worth much.
>
> mayf.
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Mon Sep 24 11:22:19 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:22:19 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident
Message-ID: <c43.19c6d4da.34294c4b@aol.com>

Given the technoligy we have today, it shouldn't take long for someone to 
produce a digital reenactment of this event. Did the steering butterfly stay with 
the front half of the car? Bob in connecticut



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From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Sep 24 11:33:13 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:33:13 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident
References: <c43.19c6d4da.34294c4b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004b01c7fed0$fc60e650$6401a8c0@Glens>

Bob
Not sure on the steering wheel. You can bet this will be a high tech
investigation. It's important that the experts review it and let everyone know
the true story. Nothing I saw looked like the clutch blew. Normally there
would have been lots of sparks if it was the clutch.
Glen
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Want1937hd at aol.com
  To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com ; drmayf at mayfco.com ; land-speed at autox.team.net
  Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 11:22 AM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident


  Given the technoligy we have today, it shouldn't take long for someone to
produce a digital reenactment of this event. Did the steering butterfly stay
with the front half of the car? Bob in connecticut




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
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From Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com  Mon Sep 24 11:37:00 2007
From: Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com (Clay, Dale)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:37:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident
In-Reply-To: <004b01c7fed0$fc60e650$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <c43.19c6d4da.34294c4b@aol.com>
	<004b01c7fed0$fc60e650$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA162@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>

One thing I read said that there we "no frame tubes forward of the
seat."  That certainly can't be a good thing!  John is damn lucky!

They're having to tuff season with Eric being killed, Ashley having a
big shunt (uninjured) and now John's accident ...

Dale C.



Subject: Re: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident

Bob
Not sure on the steering wheel. You can bet this will be a high tech
investigation. It's important that the experts review it and let
everyone know
the true story. Nothing I saw looked like the clutch blew. Normally
there
would have been lots of sparks if it was the clutch.
Glen

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient or employees of MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited.   If
you received this in error, pleasecontact the sender by email and delete the
material from any computer.

From advo at comcast.net  Mon Sep 24 11:52:52 2007
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:52:52 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] rulebook question
In-Reply-To: <AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA162@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>
Message-ID: <20070924175328.CDBDE187B54@autox.team.net>

Guys, just wondering...
Provided an adequately designed roll-cage , harness, fire extinguisher and
fire-prep typical of a salt-prepped street roadster, could I run a
three-wheeler (2 front-one rear..none in line) for time at speed-week?  It
will be licensed in MN as a motorcycle.  Front tires would be front-runners,
rear a speed rated 60 series. The engine powered our Salt2Salt car to 137mph
last year.  I'd want to run it on LP gas, with careful attention to
shielding for the gas bottle.  I don't believe it would fit into any class,
including sidehack...
See this site to check out the project :
http://turbostude.com/Tribaker/index.htm
Thanks
Greg
http://salt2salt.com

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Sep 24 11:54:33 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:54:33 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident
References: <c43.19c6d4da.34294c4b@aol.com>
	<004b01c7fed0$fc60e650$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA162@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c7fed3$f72b40b0$6401a8c0@Glens>

We can all speculate and guess. Another theory is that if the tire blew or 
went down it could have rolled under the lower right frame rail and took the 
tubing out. I saw the picture of the cage but it went by on the truck pretty 
fast.
Again just a theory.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clay, Dale" <Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; <Want1937hd at aol.com>; 
<drmayf at mayfco.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident


One thing I read said that there we "no frame tubes forward of the
seat."  That certainly can't be a good thing!  John is damn lucky!

They're having to tuff season with Eric being killed, Ashley having a
big shunt (uninjured) and now John's accident ...

Dale C.



Subject: Re: [Land-speed] John Force's Accident

Bob
Not sure on the steering wheel. You can bet this will be a high tech
investigation. It's important that the experts review it and let
everyone know
the true story. Nothing I saw looked like the clutch blew. Normally
there
would have been lots of sparks if it was the clutch.
Glen

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to 
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or 
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or 
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of MD Helicopters, 
Inc. is prohibited.   If you received this in error, pleasecontact the 
sender by email and delete the material from any computer.

From v4gr at rcn.com  Mon Sep 24 12:10:17 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:10:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] rulebook question
References: <20070924175328.CDBDE187B54@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <001301c7fed6$29d8a9b0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

Perhaps you could contact Rick Yacoucci about acquiring his tag axle and 
then you would have enough wheels for anyone. 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Meyers" <advo at comcast.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] rulebook question


> Guys, just wondering...
> Provided an adequately designed roll-cage , harness, fire extinguisher and
> fire-prep typical of a salt-prepped street roadster, could I run a
> three-wheeler (2 front-one rear..none in line) for time at speed-week?  It
> will be licensed in MN as a motorcycle.  Front tires would be 
> front-runners,
> rear a speed rated 60 series. The engine powered our Salt2Salt car to 
> 137mph
> last year.  I'd want to run it on LP gas, with careful attention to
> shielding for the gas bottle.  I don't believe it would fit into any 
> class,
> including sidehack...
> See this site to check out the project :
> http://turbostude.com/Tribaker/index.htm
> Thanks
> Greg
> http://salt2salt.com

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 24 12:27:04 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:27:04 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] rulebook question
Message-ID: <488548.1190658424854.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Love your idea and work. If it's a motorcycle it would not need any of the 4 wheel directed equipment. But I wouldn't push it. When done I would run it at the USFRA meet. Good Luck 

>Subject: [Land-speed] rulebook question
>
>Guys, just wondering...
>Provided an adequately designed roll-cage , harness, fire extinguisher and
>fire-prep typical of a salt-prepped street roadster, could I run a
>three-wheeler (2 front-one rear..none in line) for time at speed-week?  It
>will be licensed in MN as a motorcycle.  Front tires would be front-runners,
>rear a speed rated 60 series. The engine powered our Salt2Salt car to 137mph
>last year.  I'd want to run it on LP gas, with careful attention to
>shielding for the gas bottle.  I don't believe it would fit into any class,
>including sidehack...

From advo at comcast.net  Mon Sep 24 12:59:18 2007
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:59:18 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] rulebook question
In-Reply-To: <488548.1190658424854.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070924185950.1B0F9187B16@autox.team.net>

Thanks,
This is a project I have been thinking about for 30 years, one way or the
other, and it would be nice to have some sort of venue to wring it out, even
if I don't get in a rulebook!
Best to all
Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: James Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 1:27 PM
To: Greg Meyers; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] rulebook question

Love your idea and work. If it's a motorcycle it would not need any of the 4
wheel directed equipment. But I wouldn't push it. When done I would run it
at the USFRA meet. Good Luck 

>Subject: [Land-speed] rulebook question
>
>Guys, just wondering...
>Provided an adequately designed roll-cage , harness, fire extinguisher and
>fire-prep typical of a salt-prepped street roadster, could I run a
>three-wheeler (2 front-one rear..none in line) for time at speed-week?  It
>will be licensed in MN as a motorcycle.  Front tires would be
front-runners,
>rear a speed rated 60 series. The engine powered our Salt2Salt car to
137mph
>last year.  I'd want to run it on LP gas, with careful attention to
>shielding for the gas bottle.  I don't believe it would fit into any class,
>including sidehack...

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Sep 24 15:32:46 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:32:46 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] News on John Force
Message-ID: <002201c7fef2$731a6980$6401a8c0@Glens>

On www.nhra.com in the Geiger counter column this was just released. The
doctors have John standing and seeing how much pressure he can put on the
ankle and knee. How's that for starting rehab. He ask the doctors if he could
drive at Richman in 2 weeks, they said no and will be down rest of the season,
we'll see on that I guess. One lucky dude. Hang in there John

Glen

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Sep 24 18:24:03 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:24:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
Message-ID: <46F85523.6000905@mayfco.com>

Other than very carefully, how does one go about drilling very small 
holes, holes on the order of 0.020 - 0.040 diameter? How do you chuck 
something that small? And I suspect that sharpening drills that small is 
not gonna happen. Can hardly see drill bits that small..

I would be drilling in aluminum.

mayf

From gary_ellen at msn.com  Mon Sep 24 18:27:09 2007
From: gary_ellen at msn.com (Ellen Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:27:09 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
References: <46F85523.6000905@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV45075AED118CF2403BF1EF9B70@phx.gbl>

I use a hand held pin vise

Gary W



  Other than very carefully, how does one go about drilling very small
  holes, holes on the order of 0.020 - 0.040 diameter?

  mayf
  _______________________________________________
  gary_ellen at msn.com<mailto:gary_ellen at msn.com>

  Land-speed mailing list

  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed<http://autox.team.net/mai
lman/listinfo/land-speed>

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Sep 24 18:35:18 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:35:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
References: <46F85523.6000905@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <009701c7ff0b$f3651680$6401a8c0@Glens>

How thick is the material, what type, hardness, I have a very small drill 
press and small tooling vises to hold small parts. I made a jig to hold jets 
in the old carb days. Took the drills to a place that sharpens tooling. Also 
had several of the needed drills. It's a slow process and lots of low 
pressure on the drill bit and the proper lube for the material.
Cussing allowed during the operation.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:24 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...


> Other than very carefully, how does one go about drilling very small
> holes, holes on the order of 0.020 - 0.040 diameter? How do you chuck
> something that small? And I suspect that sharpening drills that small is
> not gonna happen. Can hardly see drill bits that small..
>
> I would be drilling in aluminum.
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 24 19:16:25 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:16:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Pressure Switch and Temperature Sensor
Message-ID: <900879.58453.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I want to install a warning light for low oil pressure (under 30 lbs); and a warning light for too hot (245 degrees?).  Does anybody have the part numbers for such switches from either NAPA, Speedway, Summit or GM?  Going on a BBC.
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas
   

       
---------------------------------
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From kturk at ala.net  Mon Sep 24 19:21:20 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:21:20 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Pressure Switch and Temperature Sensor
References: <900879.58453.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <02f401c7ff12$613b02e0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Dick you didn't ask this question but I'll answer it anyway...

I'd recommend the oil pressure at 50psi and the water temp at 230... both 
are avalible from autometer and sold by Summit or jegs.

My thought is that it's always better to know sooner then later...

Keith 

From Flowbench at aol.com  Mon Sep 24 19:25:12 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:25:12 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Pressure Switch and Temperature Sensor
Message-ID: <bc7.1be45db0.3429bd78@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/24/2007 6:16:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
lsr_man at yahoo.com writes:

> I want to install a warning light for low oil pressure (under 30 lbs); and 
> a warning light for too hot (245 degrees?).  Does anybody have the part 
> numbers for such switches from either NAPA, Speedway, Summit or GM?  Going on a 
> BBC.
>   
>  DickJ
> 

Moroso makes a kit for the oil pressure #49500

A poormans way to do it if you can't watch the guage for water temp is to put 
tape over the gauge where you want it to run below (if you want it to run @ 
200 put the tape there). If you glance at the guage and the needle is "gone" 
shut it down. 


**************************************
 See what's new at 
http://www.aol.com

From karhu at california.com  Mon Sep 24 19:36:51 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:36:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
References: <46F85523.6000905@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <00a001c7ff14$8c9a4de0$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

I'm no machinist (hey, Rich, how about some help here?), but I would think you
want pretty high speed for small bits.  But I could be full of shit.
Definitely want the "right" lube, I'd think.  And this completes my
know-nothing dissertation on the subject.
Benn
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: drmayf
  To: LSR
  Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:24 PM
  Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...


  Other than very carefully, how does one go about drilling very small
  holes, holes on the order of 0.020 - 0.040 diameter? How do you chuck
  something that small? And I suspect that sharpening drills that small is
  not gonna happen. Can hardly see drill bits that small..

  I would be drilling in aluminum.

  mayf
  _______________________________________________
  karhu at california.com

  Land-speed mailing list

  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From v4gr at rcn.com  Mon Sep 24 19:32:36 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:32:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
References: <46F85523.6000905@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c7ff13$f4504030$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

If you can get a Sensitive Hand Drill Feed chuck like the ones Rutland 
sells. Page 646 in their cataloge. With chuck prices rang from $107 to $299. 
800-289-4787
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...


> Other than very carefully, how does one go about drilling very small
> holes, holes on the order of 0.020 - 0.040 diameter? How do you chuck
> something that small? And I suspect that sharpening drills that small is
> not gonna happen. Can hardly see drill bits that small..
>
> I would be drilling in aluminum.
>
> mayf

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Sep 24 19:35:33 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:35:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
In-Reply-To: <46F85523.6000905@mayfco.com>
References: <46F85523.6000905@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <03be01c7ff14$5db2dba0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Mayf;

Printed circuit board (PCB) shops routinely drill holes that size and even
smaller; they use solid carbide drills with a standardized 1/8" shank. You
can find these drills on eBay now & then. Use a collet- type holder such as
a tap wrench, etc. Use a light feed and high RPM with a little kerosene for
lubricant on aluminum.

Regards, Neil

Regards, Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
drmayf
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:24 PM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...

Other than very carefully, how does one go about drilling very small 
holes, holes on the order of 0.020 - 0.040 diameter? How do you chuck 
something that small? And I suspect that sharpening drills that small is 
not gonna happen. Can hardly see drill bits that small..

I would be drilling in aluminum.

mayf

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 24 19:40:42 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:40:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Pressure Switch and Temperature Sensor
In-Reply-To: <02f401c7ff12$613b02e0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <571712.97060.qm@web30712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yep, the instant that I hit "send" I wished I had asked that too.  Thanks.  I'll order those from Summit.
   
  DickJ

Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net> wrote:
  Dick you didn't ask this question but I'll answer it anyway...

I'd recommend the oil pressure at 50psi and the water temp at 230... both 
are avalible from autometer and sold by Summit or jegs.

My thought is that it's always better to know sooner then later...

Keith 




       
---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
Check out fitting  gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

From kturk at ala.net  Mon Sep 24 19:42:38 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:42:38 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Superstreet bike/Maxton this weekend.
Message-ID: <033101c7ff15$5bee79e0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

We had an incredible weekend of racing at Maxton...  Hot weather... fast bikes
and some Very fun cars...  how bout a Crosley engine in a lakester? ( 67mph
)... run by 5 older fella's that had WAY to much fun... ( those guys are gonna
get their entry fee bumped up to cover the fun they had... it was that bad )
A couple of brothers brought their Datsun roadster and ran against each other
in the 103 to 105 range... ( again we gotta double these guys fee's )

The bikes were competing not only with us but they were also running for
jackets in the Super Streetbike Top Speed challenge... and the outcome was a
bit surprising... Walt Kudron ran a wicked 244mph against Rich Yancy's bud
bike's 236mph,  Debbie Dross was also back from her collar bone injury and did
a ton of pass's in the late 180's....  ( awesome display of both riding and
courage )

Hmmm 99 entry's...around 600 runs,  253 new members so far this year... and
simply a great time ...

K

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Sep 24 19:40:16 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:40:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Drilling teeny holes...
Message-ID: <004c01c7ff15$dfe40fd0$6501a8c0@S>

Forwarded with edits
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" <>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...


> Mayf--Both Glen and Gary are right.
> I've had a good bit of experience with such tiny drills in the #55 to #80
> range.  Pin vises work well on aluminum and brass but naturally requre
> patience.  An old modelers' trick when drilling metal is to poke the drill
> into some beeswax so it fills the flutes.  Provides cutting lubrication
and
> helps to capture chips which otherwise might jam against the flutes and
let
> you overstress the drill.  Drills are impossible to sharpen well enough
for
> metal unless you have a microscope.  Once you've broken it get a new one.
> Well equipped hobby shops are sources for single drills in the 60-80 range
> beyond what you'll find in the hardware stores.  Prices run in the $1-$2
> range.
> On the other end of the scale machine drilling is best done at very high
> speed like 5000-10,000 rpm.  Well beyond what you can get with an ordinary
> bench drill press.  Not to mention that virtually all the drill chucks
> available for these machines, either jacobs type or the quick release type
> won't chuck anything smaller than a 5/64.  There is a tiny jacobs style
that
> is found on miniature drill presses like the one I think Glen has.  It's a
> Jacobs #0 and will chunk down to about .012.  These drill presses usually
> have a sensitive hand feed.  I think you can do this with a dremel tool
> mounted in their drill press accessory if  and that is IF you can find a
> dremel accessory chuck that will hold your tiny drill without excessive
> runout.  I don't use that kind of machine.  I was lucky to find a Dumore
> miniature drill press with a Jacobs 0 chuck at a swap meet a few years
ago.
> Paid $5.00 for it.  Fitted it out with a light and a dimmer switch speed
> control and then proceeded to pay $50.00 for a miniature Unimat vise for
it.
> Still a pretty good deal considering similar albeit higher quality units
> sell new today between $700 and $1600.
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
> > How thick is the material, what type, hardness, I have a very small
drill
> > press and small tooling vises to hold small parts....... Glen

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 24 20:05:03 2007
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 19:05:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
In-Reply-To: <46F85523.6000905@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <746670.98027.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I use a a Dremel type tool with small bits like you describe. Set the bit as far into the chuck as you can. Start slow until the bit begins to cut, then increase your speed. When you begin to apply pressure with the drill, watch the drill bit for any bend. If the bit bends while drilling, relax your pressure on the tool. Use cutting oils that are appropriate for the material that you are drilling. Lots of oil. Yes, as mentioned, forget about sharpening the bits, they are far too small to sharpen. 
I learned to drill from a clock and watch repairman. Buy plenty of bits, take your time and watch for any bend in the bit. They break easily and usually leave their broken bits deep in the hole you are trying to create.  Always wear  safety glasses, I usually wear my dime store reading glasses so that I can see the small stuff. 
Dale Krumheuer
Cleveland OH


drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote: Other than very carefully, how does one go about drilling very small 
holes, holes on the order of 0.020 - 0.040 diameter? How do you chuck 
something that small? And I suspect that sharpening drills that small is 
not gonna happen. Can hardly see drill bits that small..

I would be drilling in aluminum.

mayf
_______________________________________________
dmirror3 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed




  Truth is what you're stuck with once you beat the shit out of hope



       
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links. 

From jdincau at qnet.com  Mon Sep 24 20:13:23 2007
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 19:13:23 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
References: <746670.98027.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <009101c7ff19$a6c7b680$0500000a@Den>

For drilling main jets, we had the best luck with holding the drill a pin 
vice, the jet in a hand held clamp (vice grip) and drilling by hand very 
slowly. 

From jdincau at qnet.com  Mon Sep 24 20:17:42 2007
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 19:17:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
References: <746670.98027.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00a801c7ff1a$40df0a20$0500000a@Den>

Always drill undersize and check the resulting hole with the shank of the 
drill size you want.
Jim 

From ed at vetteracing.com  Mon Sep 24 20:42:40 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (Ed Van Scoy)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 02:42:40 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Drilling teeny holes...
Message-ID: <W8799626717143971190688160@webmail16>

Yeah, I know it's Mickey Mouse.... but itworks. If the drill is too small for your chuck to hold it, wrapthe end of the bit in duct tape, slide it in and tighten it up. 
Ed



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ed Weldon [mailto:23.weldon at comcast.net]
>Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 06:40 PM
>To: land-speed at autox.team.net
>Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Drilling teeny holes...
>
>Forwarded with edits
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
>To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" <>
>Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:28 PM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
>
>
>> Mayf--Both Glen and Gary are right.
>> I've had a good bit of experience with such tiny drills in the #55 to #80
>> range. Pin vises work well on aluminum and brass but naturally requre
>> patience. An old modelers' trick when drilling metal is to poke the drill
>> into some beeswax so it fills the flutes. Provides cutting lubrication
>and
>> helps to capture chips which otherwise might jam against the flutes and
>let
>> you overstress the drill. Drills are impossible to sharpen well enough
>for
>> metal unless you have a microscope. Once you've broken it get a new one.
>> Well equipped hobby shops are sources for single drills in the 60-80 range
>> beyond what you'll find in the hardware stores. Prices run in the $1-$2
>> range.
>> On the other end of the scale machine drilling is best done at very high
>> speed like 5000-10,000 rpm. Well beyond what you can get with an ordinary
>> bench drill press. Not to mention that virtually all the drill chucks
>> available for these machines, either jacobs type or the quick release type
>> won't chuck anything smaller than a 5/64. There is a tiny jacobs style
>that
>> is found on miniature drill presses like the one I think Glen has. It's a
>> Jacobs #0 and will chunk down to about .012. These drill presses usually
>> have a sensitive hand feed. I think you can do this with a dremel tool
>> mounted in their drill press accessory if and that is IF you can find a
>> dremel accessory chuck that will hold your tiny drill without excessive
>> runout. I don't use that kind of machine. I was lucky to find a Dumore
>> miniature drill press with a Jacobs 0 chuck at a swap meet a few years
>ago.
>> Paid $5.00 for it. Fitted it out with a light and a dimmer switch speed
>> control and then proceeded to pay $50.00 for a miniature Unimat vise for
>it.
>> Still a pretty good deal considering similar albeit higher quality units
>> sell new today between $700 and $1600.
>> Ed Weldon
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
>> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
>> > How thick is the material, what type, hardness, I have a very small
>drill
>> > press and small tooling vises to hold small parts....... Glen

From dlodom at charter.net  Mon Sep 24 20:57:36 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 19:57:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
In-Reply-To: <46F85523.6000905@mayfco.com>
References: <46F85523.6000905@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <46F87920.5030701@charter.net>

drmayf wrote:

>Other than very carefully, how does one go about drilling very small 
>holes, holes on the order of 0.020 - 0.040 diameter? How do you chuck 
>something that small? And I suspect that sharpening drills that small is 
>not gonna happen. Can hardly see drill bits that small..
>
>I would be drilling in aluminum.
>
>mayf
>
>
>  
>
Mayf, Get yourself a couple pin vices. You can chuck up the collet in 
your drill press or use it by hand.  Those small bits don't like the 
bend so the drill press holds it straight the best.     Doug in big ditch

From jdincau at qnet.com  Mon Sep 24 21:09:44 2007
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:09:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
References: <746670.98027.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<009101c7ff19$a6c7b680$0500000a@Den>
Message-ID: <001101c7ff21$8651a610$0500000a@Den>

Of course if I want to do precision location small holes I have a 0 to 1/8 
Jacobs chuck with a cylindrical shank that is ground true to the chuck jaws. 
I put this chuck in a collet in my mill. The average drill press has too 
much slop in the spindle for drilling with really small drills.
Jim 

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 24 21:19:43 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:19:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Pressure Switch and Temperature Sensor
References: <900879.58453.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004401c7ff22$eb1129d0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

If it were me doing it I would put 2 pressure switches in your vehicle. A 
50# pound for a light and a 30# for a kill switch. They could be fed off the 
same oil line.

If you don't have #30 pounds on starting your engine put a bypass around it 
and when you get it started flip the switch to off arming the #30 pound kill 
pressure switch.

The #50 red light will come on clueing you to a problem and the #30 just 
might save your engine....Good luck




>I want to install a warning light for low oil pressure (under 30 lbs); and 
>a warning light for too hot (245 degrees?).  Does anybody have the part 
>numbers for such switches from either NAPA, Speedway, Summit or GM?  Going 
>on a BBC.
>
>  DickJ
>  In East Texas

From saltfevr at q.com  Mon Sep 24 21:53:01 2007
From: saltfevr at q.com (TOM M SHANNON)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:53:01 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] News on John Force
In-Reply-To: <002201c7fef2$731a6980$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <002201c7fef2$731a6980$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W392D4667139468987CCF4C9B70@phx.gbl>

If you missed the ESPN broadcast ,heres a 9 min clip and crash clean-up
footage. Hang Tuff Brute Force!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFCAu1UQXekTom ShannonMagna, Utah> From:
speedtimer at beyondbb.com> To: land-speed at autox.team.net> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007
15:32:46 -0600> Subject: [Land-speed] News on John Force> > On www.nhra.com in
the Geiger counter column this was just released. The> doctors have John
standing and seeing how much pressure he can put on the> ankle and knee. How's
that for starting rehab. He ask the doctors if he could> drive at Richman in 2
weeks, they said no and will be down rest of the season,> we'll see on that I
guess. One lucky dude. Hang in there John> > Glen>
_______________________________________________> saltfevr at q.com> > Land-speed
mailing list> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Sep 24 23:16:33 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:16:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
In-Reply-To: <001101c7ff21$8651a610$0500000a@Den>
References: <746670.98027.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<009101c7ff19$a6c7b680$0500000a@Den>
	<001101c7ff21$8651a610$0500000a@Den>
Message-ID: <46F899B1.3000707@mayfco.com>

Thanks, guys, I have enough info now to fully destroy all the new bits I 
ordered from McMaster-Carr, lol.  I only want to drill less than 5 
holes, lol. So this is gonna be jury rigged. Pin vices seem to be good 
for reaming a predrilled hole. This is a full drill job through virgin 
aluminum metal. I got it now though!

mayf
Jim Dincau wrote:

>Of course if I want to do precision location small holes I have a 0 to 1/8 
>Jacobs chuck with a cylindrical shank that is ground true to the chuck jaws. 
>I put this chuck in a collet in my mill. The average drill press has too 
>much slop in the spindle for drilling with really small drills.
>Jim 
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfever at comcast.net  Tue Sep 25 02:39:09 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 01:39:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
Message-ID: <000001c7ff4f$8b7a5d20$6401a8c0@dim8100>

Mayf I'll add one more to the list.  The single greatest reason for breaking
small drill bits is ones inability to sense DOWNFORCE!  Your sense of touch
is drastically reduced by any kind of drill press or device that increases
the spindle down-force through a rack or gear reduction. You simply can't
feel the stress on the small bit with enough precision to feed the drill at
the correct rate.

The answer is to use an Albrecht spring-loaded hand chuck. It looks like a
pin chuck and is chucked up in any drill press. However, there is a collar
on the outside that stays stationary as you hold it. The chuck turns on the
inside and is spring loaded to translate along the z axis. IOW, the feed is
completely independent from the drill press. You do not run the spindle up
or down. You move the Albrecht chuck up or down with your fingers holding
onto the non-rotating collar. You add the push necessary with your finger
tips! Range is typically about 1/2 in. This is a >must have< item in every
tool box.

Rich Fox "hit the nail on the head" with his recommendation. I think this is
similar.  I sent you an eBay link but found this one cheaper after I sent
the eBay information.
http://www.jlindustrial.com/ACS-05570A/SEARCH:CATEGORY/product.html

As previously mentioned, nothing you own will give the correct high speed
for tiny drills. Typical speeds would be 10,000 - 55,000 rpm for the range
of sizes you mentioned. Industrial applications sometimes use air driven
speeders, attached to the quill, to get the correct rpm.

Here is a "rule of thumb" to determine rpm for most machines.
CS x 4 / D = RPM
CS= cutting speed of the material in ft/min (Aluminum is 400)
4 = constant to convert lineal fpm to a rotating diameter
D = the diameter of the rotating item (either the work or the cutter)
  -Elon

From joetimney at dol.net  Tue Sep 25 05:14:37 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 06:14:37 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton?
In-Reply-To: <000301c7fe0b$93067dc0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
References: <46F682E0.90104@wildblue.net>
	<BAY103-DAV132B44CB3DD3A2A695EBF3F9B50@phx.gbl>
	<000301c7fe0b$93067dc0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <46F8ED9D.3070901@dol.net>

The car belongs to Steve DiMartino out of Lexington, Ky, who races a 
Beautiful Belly tank with a S2000 Honda motor.
  It didn't run but Steve plans to run Vintage Comp Coupe next year. He 
has a big collection of Crosleys.
joe

joseph lance wrote:
> Thanks for the link to Scott's Maxton photos and videos.
> 
> Liked the #9530 coupe with the nail head Buick V8.
> 
> The Crossley coupe with the straight eight Buick is a beautiful 
> machine--does it belong to a List member ? anybody have more details, did it 
> run ?
> 
> Both Buicks look like they're basically street legal with plates in the good 
> old hot rod tradition.
> 
> Lance

From joetimney at dol.net  Tue Sep 25 06:03:38 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 07:03:38 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
In-Reply-To: <000001c7ff4f$8b7a5d20$6401a8c0@dim8100>
References: <000001c7ff4f$8b7a5d20$6401a8c0@dim8100>
Message-ID: <46F8F91A.5020009@dol.net>

Mike's comment on sensing pressure is spot on. Lube is also very 
important. Many years ago, I got a great tip about a wonderful lube to 
use on drill bits, especially small ones. Try using Elmer's glue...yes 
the white stuff you used as a kid. The stuff has lard oil in it, sticks 
to the bit and will blow your mind how well it works. I have been able 
to drill hardened shafts to install a magnet for data-ack systems.



joe

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Sep 25 07:03:37 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 07:03:37 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] World Finals
Message-ID: <005201c7ff74$7d54b0e0$6401a8c0@Glens>

WORLD FINALS are a GO. Salt is hard and dry. Larry Volk reported yesterday.
Advance team packing to leave and start prep on Saturday. See you there
Glen

From jon at infodestruction.com  Tue Sep 25 07:42:20 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:42:20 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] World Finals
In-Reply-To: <005201c7ff74$7d54b0e0$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <005201c7ff74$7d54b0e0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <8AD8D08C-4299-4E3F-B9A5-91B6D1BBEE79@infodestruction.com>

On Sep 25, 2007, at 9:03 AM, Glen Barrett wrote:

WORLD FINALS are a GO. Salt is hard and dry. Larry Volk reported  
yesterday.
Advance team packing to leave and start prep on Saturday. See you there
Glen



Nancy and I fly out of Marquette early Sunday morning -- and should  
be in Wendover by suppertime that evening.  Glad to hear the meet is  
a "go" -- the airline tickets are non-refundable.

We'll stay in Wonderful Wendover through Monday morning -- to help  
with setup and teardown.  See you on the Salt!

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Sep 25 08:14:02 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:14:02 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] News on John Force
Message-ID: <092520071414.8737.46F917AA0008A3DE000022212209229927CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

I sat by John force about ten years ago while waiting to see a GM contact at SEMA.
The term "antsy" is about as close as I can come to describing his lack of patience
during the wait.  The man literally was bouncing in his chair after a minute or two.
Good luck to the doctors who are trying to keep him from re-injuring himself while
out of circulation.  He is the ultimate ADHD type and if my wife had him in school
she would strongly recommend Ritalin ... although teachers can't do that.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: TOM M SHANNON <saltfevr at q.com>
> If you missed the ESPN broadcast ,heres a 9 min clip and crash clean-up
> footage. Hang Tuff Brute Force!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFCAu1UQXekTom ShannonMagna, Utah> From:
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com> To: land-speed at autox.team.net> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007
> 15:32:46 -0600> Subject: [Land-speed] News on John Force> > On www.nhra.com in
> the Geiger counter column this was just released. The> doctors have John
> standing and seeing how much pressure he can put on the> ankle and knee. How's
> that for starting rehab. He ask the doctors if he could> drive at Richman in 2
> weeks, they said no and will be down rest of the season,> we'll see on that I
> guess. One lucky dude. Hang in there John> > Glen>
> _______________________________________________> saltfevr at q.com> > Land-speed
> mailing list> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Sep 25 08:21:55 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:21:55 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] News on John Force
References: <092520071414.8737.46F917AA0008A3DE000022212209229927CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <008a01c7ff7f$6d76cc20$6401a8c0@Glens>

I think John could out talk one of my daughters and that's a task. Spent an 
afternoon with John at his shop a few years ago and he is at full throttle 
all the time.He did it the hard way and he deserves all of the rewards that 
go with it.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <wester6935 at comcast.net>
To: "TOM M SHANNON" <saltfevr at q.com>; "Glen Barrett" 
<speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] News on John Force


>I sat by John force about ten years ago while waiting to see a GM contact 
>at SEMA.
> The term "antsy" is about as close as I can come to describing his lack of 
> patience
> during the wait.  The man literally was bouncing in his chair after a 
> minute or two.
> Good luck to the doctors who are trying to keep him from re-injuring 
> himself while
> out of circulation.  He is the ultimate ADHD type and if my wife had him 
> in school
> she would strongly recommend Ritalin ... although teachers can't do that.
>
> Wes
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: TOM M SHANNON <saltfevr at q.com>
>> If you missed the ESPN broadcast ,heres a 9 min clip and crash clean-up
>> footage. Hang Tuff Brute Force!
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFCAu1UQXekTom ShannonMagna, Utah> From:
>> speedtimer at beyondbb.com> To: land-speed at autox.team.net> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 
>> 2007
>> 15:32:46 -0600> Subject: [Land-speed] News on John Force> > On 
>> www.nhra.com in
>> the Geiger counter column this was just released. The> doctors have John
>> standing and seeing how much pressure he can put on the> ankle and knee. 
>> How's
>> that for starting rehab. He ask the doctors if he could> drive at Richman 
>> in 2
>> weeks, they said no and will be down rest of the season,> we'll see on 
>> that I
>> guess. One lucky dude. Hang in there John> > Glen>
>> _______________________________________________> saltfevr at q.com> > 
>> Land-speed
>> mailing list> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dwright at genetics.utah.edu  Tue Sep 25 09:06:06 2007
From: dwright at genetics.utah.edu (Dan Wright)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:06:06 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] drilling tiny holes
Message-ID: <CACA6BF13836AF4CA0C40492599D7CF65C59071E46@m2.hg.genetics.utah.edu>

Mayf
The gizmo you want is called a "Sensitive Drill" or a "micro drill adaptor".
This device chucks in your regular drill press, but has a freewheeling ring
(and a small precision drill chuck) that you hold with your hand and that hand
applies the drilling pressure, as the drill press turn it, rather than using
the handle on the drill press.  I have one of these here at the U and I have
successfully drilled holes as small as .010"
My Enco Catalog has one listed as model #290-1291 priced at $98.  Of course
using plenty of the right lube (I recommend Alumicut or Tap Magic for this
operation) and raising the drill to clear the chips VERY frequently are
critical too.  If those little drills get chip bound, they break.

Dan Wright

A GUY WHO DRIVES
A CAR WIDE OPEN
IS NOT THINKIN'
HE'S JUST HOPIN'
Burma Shave

From td at twinjugs.com  Tue Sep 25 09:16:37 2007
From: td at twinjugs.com (Todd)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:16:37 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
In-Reply-To: <46F8F91A.5020009@dol.net>
References: <000001c7ff4f$8b7a5d20$6401a8c0@dim8100> <46F8F91A.5020009@dol.net>
Message-ID: <20070925151146.M7016@twinjugs.com>

> Try using Elmer's glue...yes the white stuff you used as a kid. 
> I have been able to drill hardened shafts to install a magnet for data-ack
> systems.
> joe

I agree, after Joe turned me onto this my Mac man wasn't replacing my bits 
nearly as often and actually started including a small bottle(he buys them 
at the dollar store) with his drill bit kit sales(he's one of the few that 
still offers free replacements on his small bits).
By the way, the Elmer's "wood glue" works just as well too.
Todd
PS: I'd use a different glue to hold those magnets though Joe ;-)

From v4gr at rcn.com  Tue Sep 25 10:51:43 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:51:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] tiny holes
Message-ID: <000e01c7ff94$5a4a9b30$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

I understand your not wanting to invest to heavily in five holes. If you can,
it would be a big help to just touch the work piece with an "0" center drill
or smaller first. Gives the bit a good start on a straight hole.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Sep 25 11:15:26 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:15:26 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] tiny holes
References: <000e01c7ff94$5a4a9b30$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <00c501c7ff97$aaba0210$6401a8c0@Glens>

Good idea Rich, I use center drills for 99% of the holes I drill. I also 
step drill to the larger sizes and in some cases ream for a good fit. Us old 
aircraft people were taught the proper way.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Fox" <v4gr at rcn.com>
To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:51 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] tiny holes


>I understand your not wanting to invest to heavily in five holes. If you 
>can,
> it would be a big help to just touch the work piece with an "0" center 
> drill
> or smaller first. Gives the bit a good start on a straight hole.
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From karhu at california.com  Tue Sep 25 11:40:50 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:40:50 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] larger-than-tiny holes
References: <000e01c7ff94$5a4a9b30$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
	<00c501c7ff97$aaba0210$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <014801c7ff9b$36c14cc0$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

Hey all, for larger holes, my sense was that you want to make a pilot hole at
least as large as the length of the line-junction of the two cutting lips.
(And if I was more knowledgeable, I'd know the right terms for these parts of
the bit).  So, a 1/8" pilot hole should suffice for a 1/2" final drill,
right?
Benn
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] tiny holes


  Good idea Rich, I use center drills for 99% of the holes I drill. I also
  step drill to the larger sizes and in some cases ream for a good fit. Us old
  aircraft people were taught the proper way.
  Glen

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Sep 25 11:48:04 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:48:04 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] larger-than-tiny holes
References: <000e01c7ff94$5a4a9b30$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2><00c501c7ff97$aaba0210$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<014801c7ff9b$36c14cc0$6501a8c0@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <00cc01c7ff9c$3a156450$6401a8c0@Glens>

Depends on the type of material, Sheet metal, plate and tubing all us a 
little different approach. Proper drill speed and the right drill bit angle. 
In many cases I use a pilot hole and a spot face on thin metals, they don't 
grab the metal and rip it or break your wrist when a larger drill bit grabs 
and re locates it across the shop or your gut.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Benn" <karhu at california.com>
To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] larger-than-tiny holes


> Hey all, for larger holes, my sense was that you want to make a pilot hole 
> at
> least as large as the length of the line-junction of the two cutting lips.
> (And if I was more knowledgeable, I'd know the right terms for these parts 
> of
> the bit).  So, a 1/8" pilot hole should suffice for a 1/2" final drill,
> right?
> Benn
>  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] tiny holes
>
>
>  Good idea Rich, I use center drills for 99% of the holes I drill. I also
>  step drill to the larger sizes and in some cases ream for a good fit. Us 
> old
>  aircraft people were taught the proper way.
>  Glen
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Sep 25 15:31:31 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:31:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] World FInals..
Message-ID: <46F97E33.40901@mayfco.com>

I just downloaded th eschedule and see that pits are open at 1000 on 
Tuesday. Can I park my trailer on the salt on Monday after the tow up 
and then do my set up and etc on Tuesday? Or do I have to park it 
somewhere then drag it out on Tuesday morning at 10 am?   What is the 
trus skinny here?

mayf

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Sep 25 15:50:56 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:50:56 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] World FInals..
References: <46F97E33.40901@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <011201c7ffbe$27a28560$6401a8c0@Glens>

I think it means Tuesday, Monday will be set up, etc. I don't think they 
want a bunch of people out there except the group that is working. There's a 
chance they might but you would need to contact the BNI board.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] World FInals..


>I just downloaded th eschedule and see that pits are open at 1000 on
> Tuesday. Can I park my trailer on the salt on Monday after the tow up
> and then do my set up and etc on Tuesday? Or do I have to park it
> somewhere then drag it out on Tuesday morning at 10 am?   What is the
> trus skinny here?
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Sep 25 18:03:33 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:03:33 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Landracing.com virus
References: <46F97E33.40901@mayfco.com> <011201c7ffbe$27a28560$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<018a01c7ffc9$f30c56d0$0200a8c0@Dell6000>
Message-ID: <013001c7ffd0$adf05e00$6401a8c0@Glens>

Don
The chat line is ok but there is something wrong with the web. I get the 
same message as you. I left Jon a message to see if he has any idea what's 
going on.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall at comcast.net>
To: "'Glen Barrett'" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:15 PM
Subject: Landracing.com virus


> Whenever I go to landracing.com or any forum, I get a message from IE 
> asking
> if I want to download the file land_racing.com. I think the site may be
> hacked and dangerous. Can anyone confirm?
>
> Don Pearsall
> 567B

From atrav at copper.net  Tue Sep 25 19:11:12 2007
From: atrav at copper.net (atrav)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:11:12 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Drilling teeny holes...
In-Reply-To: <00a801c7ff1a$40df0a20$0500000a@Den>
References: <746670.98027.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<00a801c7ff1a$40df0a20$0500000a@Den>
Message-ID: <46F9B1B0.1030602@copper.net>

Jim Dincau wrote:
> Always drill undersize and check the resulting hole with the shank of the 
> drill size you want.
> Jim 

If you need to be precise, get a set of pin gages off of ebay. I had 
some jets come with a motorcycle project that I was suspicious had been 
drilled out, as they seemed bigger than what they were stamped, so the 
pin gages were handy for that. Recently I found that the float valve 
holes in a set of carbs were different, so the pin gages were handy to 
find why two carbs were running lean.

The old watch makers way of tiny holes was to flatten the end of a wire, 
then grind it into a miniature spade bit to the size you want, then 
harden. Maybe harden then grind, I don't remember. I wonder if these 
laser cutting places could 'pop' a tiny hole with accuracy?

-Aron-

From webmaster at landracing.com  Tue Sep 25 18:19:12 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jonathan Amo)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:19:12 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Landracing.com virus
In-Reply-To: <013001c7ffd0$adf05e00$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <46F97E33.40901@mayfco.com>
	<011201c7ffbe$27a28560$6401a8c0@Glens><018a01c7ffc9$f30c56d0$0200a8c0@Dell6000>
	<013001c7ffd0$adf05e00$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <B6C19901D2FA47BE9FBFA4363A14D080@JonPC>

the Landracing.com server is having issues, there are NO VIRUS coming thru 
the server. What has happened is some of the mime programing is screwed. 
wont recognize the database or PHP files. So when you click on forums or 
pages of the website, your browser is looking for someway to open the file. 
IT is NOT A VIRUS. working on solutions as we speak. I have seen this happen 
before on an overloaded server that used to much system resources, and 
crashes.

Jon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall at comcast.net>
Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Landracing.com virus


> Don
> The chat line is ok but there is something wrong with the web. I get the
> same message as you. I left Jon a message to see if he has any idea what's
> going on.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall at comcast.net>
> To: "'Glen Barrett'" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:15 PM
> Subject: Landracing.com virus
>
>
>> Whenever I go to landracing.com or any forum, I get a message from IE
>> asking
>> if I want to download the file land_racing.com. I think the site may be
>> hacked and dangerous. Can anyone confirm?
>>
>> Don Pearsall
>> 567B
> _______________________________________________
> webmaster at landracing.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From webmaster at landracing.com  Tue Sep 25 18:47:46 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jonathan Amo)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:47:46 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Landracing.com virus
In-Reply-To: <B6C19901D2FA47BE9FBFA4363A14D080@JonPC>
References: <46F97E33.40901@mayfco.com><011201c7ffbe$27a28560$6401a8c0@Glens><018a01c7ffc9$f30c56d0$0200a8c0@Dell6000><013001c7ffd0$adf05e00$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<B6C19901D2FA47BE9FBFA4363A14D080@JonPC>
Message-ID: <6D4D5B411DAB45CEA44160344C60690D@JonPC>

Servers are back online, it was a rather simple fix.

Jon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jonathan Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "Don Pearsall" 
<donpearsall at comcast.net>
Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Landracing.com virus


> the Landracing.com server is having issues, there are NO VIRUS coming thru
> the server. What has happened is some of the mime programing is screwed.
> wont recognize the database or PHP files. So when you click on forums or
> pages of the website, your browser is looking for someway to open the 
> file.
> IT is NOT A VIRUS. working on solutions as we speak. I have seen this 
> happen
> before on an overloaded server that used to much system resources, and
> crashes.
>
> Jon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> To: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall at comcast.net>
> Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Landracing.com virus
>
>
>> Don
>> The chat line is ok but there is something wrong with the web. I get the
>> same message as you. I left Jon a message to see if he has any idea 
>> what's
>> going on.
>> Glen
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall at comcast.net>
>> To: "'Glen Barrett'" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:15 PM
>> Subject: Landracing.com virus
>>
>>
>>> Whenever I go to landracing.com or any forum, I get a message from IE
>>> asking
>>> if I want to download the file land_racing.com. I think the site may be
>>> hacked and dangerous. Can anyone confirm?
>>>
>>> Don Pearsall
>>> 567B
>> _______________________________________________
>> webmaster at landracing.com
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> webmaster at landracing.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Sep 26 09:09:19 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:09:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] World FInals
Message-ID: <46FA761F.3090406@mayfco.com>

Well, my main crew has other duties during WF. So I be needing someone 
who is familiar with strapping a big old dork into a car and keeping him 
calm enough to drive, lol. Any of you that wants to help, come on by and 
check us out!

Of course this depends on whether or not the motor will run good enough 
on Saturday at the dyno, lol


mayf

From kturk at ala.net  Wed Sep 26 16:23:43 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:23:43 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Ron Christenson's contact info
Message-ID: <00cf01c8008b$e69a5fb0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Rob Kinnan would like to get a hold of him to get some photo's he took...

Keith

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Sep 26 16:28:38 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:28:38 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ron Christenson's contact info
References: <00cf01c8008b$e69a5fb0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <008d01c8008c$95f85340$6401a8c0@Glens>

Try
ron.christensen at wsapr.com

Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:23 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Ron Christenson's contact info


> Rob Kinnan would like to get a hold of him to get some photo's he took...
> 
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Nt788 at aol.com  Wed Sep 26 22:23:56 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:23:56 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
Message-ID: <c78.1e53f0f7.342c8a5c@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/20/2007 1:41:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
drmayf at mayfco.com writes:

So,  David, are you an illegal?  I don't think any one has a problem with  
folk who come through the proper gates to be in America. It is the crush  
of  illegals that we are all concerned  with.




SOMEBODY HAS TO FILL ALL THE CONDEMINIMUMS



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From Nt788 at aol.com  Wed Sep 26 22:29:20 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:29:20 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
Message-ID: <c23.232b6d85.342c8ba0@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/20/2007 12:22:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jon.the.wise at gmail.com writes:

But it's  our facility, and so it's an issue that  
needs to be addressed by us,  so we can allow more immigrants.



NEED MORE CONDOS!



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From Nt788 at aol.com  Wed Sep 26 22:36:19 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:36:19 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
Message-ID: <c45.212458fb.342c8d43@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/20/2007 12:03:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net writes:

My  family has worked hard and contributed to society, including killing
>  many babies in Viet Nam.



The more immigrants, the more condos! We all get  rich!



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From Nt788 at aol.com  Wed Sep 26 22:44:55 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:44:55 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] SUSPECT: Re:  NON LSR---Border Rant re-ranted
Message-ID: <d46.144348c9.342c8f47@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/20/2007 9:49:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
DavidAdin at mercydurango.org writes:

Let us  all keep cool...It seems to me that this thread has gotten out of
focus. I  suspect that we are all the offspring of immigrants. The
problem isn't  immigrants, this country is richer because of them. Its
illegal immigrants  that I along with many others oppose. I can't blame
anyone for wanting a  better life, actually that is good. There is a
system to enter this  country, use it. Illegals are a problem, period!



Tom, Redding  CA - #216 D/FCC




Banning 2strokes now that's a problem! I like illegal old cars!  jack



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From SCowle at mentorcollege.edu  Thu Sep 27 12:23:34 2007
From: SCowle at mentorcollege.edu (Scott Cowle)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:23:34 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] ECTA
Message-ID: <46FBBCE60200003800004D42@gw.mentorcollege.edu>

Well I dun blowed up another transmission testing my car on one of the local
highways, and If I can get it repaired in time I'll be at Maxton in October
for my once a year attempt at my little bit of glory.Why do I keep trying?
Cause there isn't any other place like Maxton on the East Coast. I have to
tell you all that the volunteers do a great job and they try so very hard to
be fair to everyone. I look forward to the trip every year-I'm obsessed with
it. I hope to see you all there in a month's time. Scott



----------------------------------------------------------------------
This communication may contain confidential or privileged
proprietary material for the sole use of the intended recipient.
Any review, use, or distribution or disclosure by others is
strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, or
authorized to receive the information from the recipient, please
contact the sender by email and delete all copies of this message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<<<MentorCollege>>>

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Thu Sep 27 12:52:45 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:52:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] ECTA
In-Reply-To: <46FBBCE60200003800004D42@gw.mentorcollege.edu>
References: <46FBBCE60200003800004D42@gw.mentorcollege.edu>
Message-ID: <5A5DCD3247254CD5A4E986AE037E8C80@LMS>

Scott,  You can get it done----We know how much you love it---hope you blew 
it up by having WAY to much HP!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Cowle" <SCowle at mentorcollege.edu>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:23 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] ECTA


> Well I dun blowed up another transmission testing my car on one of the 
> local
> highways, and If I can get it repaired in time I'll be at Maxton in 
> October
> for my once a year attempt at my little bit of glory.Why do I keep trying?
> Cause there isn't any other place like Maxton on the East Coast. I have to
> tell you all that the volunteers do a great job and they try so very hard 
> to
> be fair to everyone. I look forward to the trip every year-I'm obsessed 
> with
> it. I hope to see you all there in a month's time. Scott
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> This communication may contain confidential or privileged
> proprietary material for the sole use of the intended recipient.
> Any review, use, or distribution or disclosure by others is
> strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, or
> authorized to receive the information from the recipient, please
> contact the sender by email and delete all copies of this message.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> <<<MentorCollege>>>
> _______________________________________________
> sparky.2211 at cox.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsr1301 at dahmurf.com  Thu Sep 27 14:14:31 2007
From: lsr1301 at dahmurf.com (DahMurf)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:14:31 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] ECTA
In-Reply-To: <46FBBCE60200003800004D42@gw.mentorcollege.edu>
References: <46FBBCE60200003800004D42@gw.mentorcollege.edu>
Message-ID: <20070927201315.M47294@dahmurf.com>

You do it because people like Todd & I wait ALL YEAR to see your awesome car 
make a run down the track! It is always one of the highlights for us!

I hope you get it back together & make it down again!
Deb #1302
Twin Jugs Racing

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Scott Cowle" <SCowle at mentorcollege.edu>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:23:34 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] ECTA

> Well I dun blowed up another transmission testing my car on one of the 
local
> highways, and If I can get it repaired in time I'll be at Maxton in October
> for my once a year attempt at my little bit of glory.Why do I keep trying?
> Cause there isn't any other place like Maxton on the East Coast. I have to
> tell you all that the volunteers do a great job and they try so very hard 
to
> be fair to everyone. I look forward to the trip every year-I'm obsessed 
with
> it. I hope to see you all there in a month's time. Scott

From rbuck at xmission.com  Thu Sep 27 20:13:02 2007
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:13:02 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Pics from WoS
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070927201125.03598a68@xmission.com>

I finally waded thru the pics I took at WoS and got 'em on my 
server.  If you're interested, they're at:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/bsf2007/wos/Welcome.html

Ray the Rat
(lookin forward to WF)

From rbuck at xmission.com  Thu Sep 27 22:08:15 2007
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:08:15 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Grand Am Crash pics
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070927220638.037b9eb0@xmission.com>

A coupla weeks ago I was at a Grand Am race where there was a very 
scary-lookin crash on the first lap.  Since I've been trying to get 
the backlog of pics edited before I go back to the salt and take even 
more pics, I thought I'd include this short "pseudo time-lapse" 
sequence on its own page (s):
http://www.chevyasylum.com/racing07/crash070915/crash090715.html

Just seeing the picture of the midst of the crash with the Mazda 
upside-down in the air doesn't tell the full story.  I hope this is a 
little better way of presenting it.

Da Rat

From rbuck at xmission.com  Thu Sep 27 22:16:59 2007
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:16:59 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] OT Daytona Prototype Crash pics
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070927221409.037e36b0@xmission.com>

A coupla weeks ago I was at a Grand Am race at Miller's where there 
was a very scary-lookin crash on the first lap.  Since I've been 
trying to get the backlog of pics edited before I go back to the salt 
and take even more pics, I thought I'd include this short "pseudo 
time-lapse" sequence on its own page:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/racing07/crash070915/crash090715.html 
Btw, both drivers were uninjured, but there are rumors that the DP 
driver (Seth Ingham) has been invited NOT to come back to Grand 
Am.  I have no idea how much truth there is to that, but I spose time 
will tell.

Just seeing the picture of the midst of the crash with the Mazda 
upside-down in the air doesn't tell the full story.  I hope this is a 
little better way of presenting it.

Da Rat

From rbuck at xmission.com  Thu Sep 27 22:19:14 2007
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:19:14 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Oops.
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070927221809.037b9eb0@xmission.com>

Sorry for the duplicate post.  It's WAY past this ol man's bed time 
and I haven't even had my milk and cookies.  :)

Da Rat

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 27 23:15:28 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:15:28 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Oops.
Message-ID: <092820070515.14578.46FC8DF00003D064000038F22213528573CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Don't worry about it Ray, according to Keith Turk the best way
to spend an afternoon is in this order:  milk, cookies, NAP.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Ray Buck <rbuck at xmission.com>
> Sorry for the duplicate post.  It's WAY past this ol man's bed time 
> and I haven't even had my milk and cookies.  :)
> 
> Da Rat

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Fri Sep 28 03:14:22 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:14:22 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Oops.
In-Reply-To: <092820070515.14578.46FC8DF00003D064000038F22213528573CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
References: <092820070515.14578.46FC8DF00003D064000038F22213528573CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <DA8044EC35E4483EA7FE2CB2C9BD56B1@LMS>

Wes, KT would---mine---cookies & milk, nap
      Sparky 
AA/_ L  2211

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Sep 28 04:58:01 2007
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:58:01 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] The Journey Begins
In-Reply-To: <DA8044EC35E4483EA7FE2CB2C9BD56B1@LMS>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20940E3D4@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Leaving this morning for The World Finals on the Bonneville Salt Flats.
Columbus, Ohio to Wendover Utah, 1811 Miles. Just to drive a musty old
truck 3 miles on the salt, Yeah baby now that's a vacation. Hope to see
all the usual suspects when I get there! Especially Dan in Impound!


Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Fri Sep 28 16:29:37 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:29:37 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
Message-ID: <d40.145999c9.342eda51@aol.com>

US Army newsreel footage about the photographers and the glider base at  
Maxton.
 
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbjd0s2g8jk_ 
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbjd0s2g8jk) 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From td at twinjugs.com  Fri Sep 28 17:28:48 2007
From: td at twinjugs.com (Todd)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:28:48 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
In-Reply-To: <d40.145999c9.342eda51@aol.com>
References: <d40.145999c9.342eda51@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20070928231711.M89535@twinjugs.com>

Excellent find... Thanks! Both of these seem to be relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjZyaRANv4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbjd0s2g8jk
Todd

> US Army newsreel footage about the photographers and the glider base at  
> Maxton.
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbjd0s2g8jk)

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Sep 28 18:40:34 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:40:34 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
References: <d40.145999c9.342eda51@aol.com>
	<20070928231711.M89535@twinjugs.com>
Message-ID: <016401c80231$59230720$6401a8c0@Glens>

When we moved back to California after WW-II (yeah I'm that old) they had 
glider training off of  Redondo Beach. They would tow the gliders with a 
winch down the hill side and release them over the cliffs of Redondo and 
they updraft/thermals would give them the lift to fly around and later land 
on the beach. They would remove the wings and trailer them back up the hill. 
This was around 1945.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd" <td at twinjugs.com>
To: <BWANA343 at aol.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Maxton/Laurinburg 1944


> Excellent find... Thanks! Both of these seem to be relevant.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjZyaRANv4Q
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbjd0s2g8jk
> Todd
>
>> US Army newsreel footage about the photographers and the glider base at
>> Maxton.
>> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbjd0s2g8jk)
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Fri Sep 28 19:01:56 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:01:56 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Maxton/Laurinburg 1944 (non LSR)
Message-ID: <cb7.18e03cde.342efe04@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/28/2007 8:39:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

glider  training off of  Redondo Beach. They would tow the gliders with a  
winch down the hill side and release them over the cliffs 


When I was stationed in Germany with the 4th AD in 65/67 we used to get  
glider rides with the local Sailplane club for $5 @ trip. They were all  
Ex-Luftwaffe Old Farts Like Us, only in the Air and w/o Engines.
Not a lot of soldiers went up and these junior Red Baron wannabees  needed 
very little encouragement to show you their stuff, ala rolls, loops,  dives, 
etc. The scariest part of the trip was the takeoff, when you were winched  up to 
what you thought was vertical before the line was dropped. After that it  was 
all fun, if your lunch stayed put. 
Bob, got pix someplace, W
 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From neil at dbelltech.com  Fri Sep 28 19:27:26 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:27:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gliders/Sailplanes
In-Reply-To: <cb7.18e03cde.342efe04@aol.com>
References: <cb7.18e03cde.342efe04@aol.com>
Message-ID: <064b01c80237$e4fcf8e0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Bob;

I was in Germany too but in '62-'63. I joined the local German Aero Club in
Babenhausen where I was stationed and our instructor was an old
Messerschmitt fighter pilot who spoke no English. The club used a winch for
launching the gliders from a grass field behind the kaserne. The first time
he had me in the glider he did a side- slip to lose altitude for landing and
that scared the crap out of me-- I had no idea what was happening!

After I returned to the States and found out how expensive it was to fly
here I abandoned the idea. It was fun though!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ 

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
BWANA343 at aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:02 PM
To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Maxton/Laurinburg 1944 (non LSR)

In a message dated 9/28/2007 8:39:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

glider  training off of  Redondo Beach. They would tow the gliders with a  
winch down the hill side and release them over the cliffs 


When I was stationed in Germany with the 4th AD in 65/67 we used to get  
glider rides with the local Sailplane club for $5 @ trip. They were all  
Ex-Luftwaffe Old Farts Like Us, only in the Air and w/o Engines.
Not a lot of soldiers went up and these junior Red Baron wannabees  needed 
very little encouragement to show you their stuff, ala rolls, loops,  dives,

etc. The scariest part of the trip was the takeoff, when you were winched
up to 
what you thought was vertical before the line was dropped. After that it
was 
all fun, if your lunch stayed put. 
Bob, got pix someplace, W

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Sep 28 22:08:45 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:08:45 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Wally Parks
Message-ID: <000801c8024e$6e795850$6401a8c0@Glens>

Just heard that Wally Parks passed away today, A pioneer of hot rodding, SCTA,
and NHRA, I am so glad to have known this man. God Speed Mr. Wally Parks.
Thanks for all you did for all of us to enjoy.

Our prayers are with the family.
Glen And Carol Barrett

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Fri Sep 28 22:53:28 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:53:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Journey Begins
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20940E3D4@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20940E3D4@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <9EFFFC7A10464B5C884EFB6CAC78CDF3@LMS>

Mike---I am thrasing my self---will try to fire in the AM---to see if it 
will still run---major rework since SW
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MEIERLE Mike" <Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:58 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] The Journey Begins


> Leaving this morning for The World Finals on the Bonneville Salt Flats.
> Columbus, Ohio to Wendover Utah, 1811 Miles. Just to drive a musty old
> truck 3 miles on the salt, Yeah baby now that's a vacation. Hope to see
> all the usual suspects when I get there! Especially Dan in Impound!
>
>
> Mike Meierle

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 28 23:21:53 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 05:21:53 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Wally Parks
In-Reply-To: <000801c8024e$6e795850$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <000801c8024e$6e795850$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W64B0E59D0335A835F6E61D9B30@phx.gbl>

I too am grateful for having met and spoken with this man...

- in different decades, -at the drags, -and at Bonneville,  many, many
hundreds of  miles and many,many years apart.

An Amazing visionary,

Wally Parks was a Racer.    A better tribute I do not know.


there comes a time,...    we all must face.

How old was he Glen ?         94 ?

God Speed,   Wally Parks,..




  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York,

    0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

> From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:08:45 -0600
> Subject: [Land-speed] Wally Parks
>
> Just heard that Wally Parks passed away today, A pioneer of hot rodding,
SCTA,
> and NHRA, I am so glad to have known this man. God Speed Mr. Wally Parks.
> Thanks for all you did for all of us to enjoy.
>
> Our prayers are with the family.    Glen And Carol Barrett

_________________________________________________________________
Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger 
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wl
mailtagline

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 02:41:05 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 01:41:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Combustion Video
Message-ID: <000001c80274$798f8590$6401a8c0@dim8100>

Great video of real-time combustion. Try to single-step through it the
second time to see details you missed on the first pass.  Looks like the
injectors are only 50% duty cycle. Try and note the spark travel. It moves
to the end of the ground and then the burn starts.  Do you think that is
detonation at frame 00:12.  Maybe.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...93860613
<http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5815350492893860613&hl=en> &hl=en

  -Elon

From jimwebb at nutsracing.com  Sat Sep 29 04:34:16 2007
From: jimwebb at nutsracing.com (Jim Webb)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 05:34:16 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Leaving for World Finals
Message-ID: <20070929103453.7D8DD1879C8@autox.team.net>

The big red truck from Texas is hitting the road today headed for World
Finals. Please call my cell 979 215-1928 if there is any change in status of
the meet. Looking forward to seeing everyone on the salt!

 

Jim Webb

Choc Full o' Nuts

A/PP B/PP ?/FL

From ecpurinton at wildblue.net  Sat Sep 29 06:40:16 2007
From: ecpurinton at wildblue.net (Ed Purinton)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:40:16 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Re combustion video
Message-ID: <46FE47B0.4090807@wildblue.net>

     BIG thanks for the link, VERY interesting.  Will have to re-study 
pre-spark and spark events a lot more.  Found intake charge action very 
interesting  at different valve lifts both opening and closing.  Wonder 
what the total intake port looked like? 

                                   Ed

From john.szalay at att.net  Sat Sep 29 09:17:10 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:17:10 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NON-  Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
Message-ID: <092920071517.24008.46FE6C760001DAEB00005DC82160281060970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

Many years ago, (1965-68) I was in the paratroops (101st)
my Sgt Maj  wore two sets of wings, Jump wings like the rest of us
and a set of Glider wings. thats was the only set of glider wings I had
ever seen wore by anyone.  Always impressed me.
I had ridden  in sail planes with the CAP over Bellows Field in
Hawaii. and I just could not believe that anyone would ride a glider
into an invasion with a Jeep and artillery aboard into combat.. unreal.

During the war, paratroops got jump pay, the glider troops got nothing.
-------------- Original message from BWANA343 at aol.com: 
> US Army newsreel footage about the photographers and the glider base at > Maxton. 
> 
> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbjd0s2g8jk_ 
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbjd0s2g8jk) 

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sat Sep 29 09:56:24 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:56:24 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR  Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
Message-ID: <d20.17551b11.342fcfa8@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/29/2007 11:17:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
john.szalay at att.net writes:

I just  could not believe that anyone would ride a glider
into an invasion with a  Jeep and artillery aboard into combat.. unreal.

During the war,  paratroops got jump pay, the glider troops got  nothing.



Everything I ever saw/read about these plywood beasts was horrible. Lousy  
handling, nasty landing stats, more injuries than actual combat. Your Sgt was  
indeed a rarity! I wonder if Life/disability insurance was available back  then?
That's one perfectly good airplane I'd have no problem jumping out of  !
Bob, no death from splinters needed,W



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 29 12:01:40 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:01:40 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR  Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
In-Reply-To: <d20.17551b11.342fcfa8@aol.com>
References: <d20.17551b11.342fcfa8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W108C8A3E6B59044DEC8E2ED9B30@phx.gbl>

   of course, the whole point...

       ...  was to get the jeep & Artillery 'TO'  the scene of the combat...

    those fellas had iron guts.  I SALUTE them


  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York,

 -who's dad went thru WWII in a Sherman of the 741st Tank Battallion,  D-Day
to VE Day

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooo



> From: BWANA343 at aol.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:56:24 -0400
> To: john.szalay at att.net; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON-LSR  Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
>
> In a message dated 9/29/2007 11:17:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> john.szalay at att.net writes:
>
> I just  could not believe that anyone would ride a glider
> into an invasion with a  Jeep and artillery aboard into combat.. unreal.
>
> During the war,  paratroops got jump pay, the glider troops got  nothing.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Everything I ever saw/read about these plywood beasts was horrible. Lousy
> handling, nasty landing stats, more injuries than actual combat. Your Sgt
was
> indeed a rarity! I wonder if Life/disability insurance was available back
then?
> That's one perfectly good airplane I'd have no problem jumping out of  !
>

 Bob, no death from splinters needed, W

_________________________________________________________________
Explore the seven wonders of the world
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 12:48:44 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:48:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Combustion video
Message-ID: <000001c802c9$5d34c2c0$6401a8c0@dim8100>

It looks like the link got corrupted when the "digest" reformatted and was
sent out. See if this is better. -Elon

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5815350492893860613&hl=en&hl=en

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 12:54:45 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (Elon)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:54:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Combustion Video
Message-ID: <000101c802ca$33ee3e40$6401a8c0@dim8100>

Notice two exhaust valves. It is probably a typical 4-valve hemi but the
intakes are bigger and one of them is out of camera range. I wish there was
a lot more information about this clip.  -Elon

From: Ed Purinton (snip . . .) Wonder what the total intake port looked
like?

From jon at infodestruction.com  Sat Sep 29 13:57:38 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:57:38 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Off we go...
Message-ID: <E77CCF18-842D-4D8F-8893-BF8268C15F67@infodestruction.com>

...into the wild blue yonder.

Nancy and I fly out of Marquette tomorrow morning, headed for World  
Finals.  Rest assured that the porta-potties will be taken care of  
for this event.

We'll have cell phone 906 361 6281 with us -- not the usual number.   
We'll be back Monday night 8 October 2007.

See you on the Salt!

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 14:03:08 2007
From: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 20:03:08 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Screen
Message-ID: <092920072003.18112.46FEAF7C000D0221000046C022070009539C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>

Has anyone ever seen a puny filter or screen on an intake for a turbo? My deal's really pretty tight, with the intake facing the block only about an 1 1/2" away. I should have something there to keep at least the larger fasteners from going in. 4" diameter.
Alternately I'll make something, maybe using foam and a screen. Any foam experts out there? Thanks, BJ in Beantown, where the Sox finished in front of the Yankees.....

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Sep 29 14:04:56 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:04:56 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Screen
In-Reply-To: <092920072003.18112.46FEAF7C000D0221000046C022070009539C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00a101c802d4$02274730$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

You are way off in the wrong time zone on this one..sigh..
dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of bobbyhotrods at comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:03 PM
To: Landspeed
Subject: [Land-speed] Screen


Has anyone ever seen a puny filter or screen on an intake for a turbo?
My deal's really pretty tight, with the intake facing the block only
about an 1 1/2" away. I should have something there to keep at least the
larger fasteners from going in. 4" diameter. Alternately I'll make
something, maybe using foam and a screen. Any foam experts out there?
Thanks, BJ in Beantown, where the Sox finished in front of the
Yankees..... _______________________________________________
ddahlgren at snet.net

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

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From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 15:12:31 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:12:31 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Off we go...
Message-ID: <092920072112.25250.46FEBFBF00045265000062A22200760180CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Bring your longjohns ... it's not raining in Wendover but it's snowing in Salt Lake right now.  Two different weather systems.  The forecast for the salt is low 70's and 40's at night.  Great air for racing.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Jon Wennerberg <jon at infodestruction.com>
> ...into the wild blue yonder.
> 
> Nancy and I fly out of Marquette tomorrow morning, headed for World  
> Finals.  Rest assured that the porta-potties will be taken care of  
> for this event.
> 
> We'll have cell phone 906 361 6281 with us -- not the usual number.   
> We'll be back Monday night 8 October 2007.
> 
> See you on the Salt!
> 
>                  Jon Wennerberg
> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>               Marquette, Michigan
>               (that's 'way up north)
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sat Sep 29 16:11:15 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:11:15 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR  Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
In-Reply-To: <BAY135-W108C8A3E6B59044DEC8E2ED9B30@phx.gbl>
References: <d20.17551b11.342fcfa8@aol.com>
	<BAY135-W108C8A3E6B59044DEC8E2ED9B30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <06b701c802e5$a7ac9190$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Bob;

There were two main types of gliders, the WACO and the Horsa. If I remember
right the smaller WACO only carried troops. In the age before helicopters
there wasn't much of a choice as to how men & equipment were delivered to
the battlefield-- land it or drop it. These were true gliders as opposed to
sailplanes; sailplanes are designed to gain altitude when possible but those
WW II gliders sure couldn't do that!

My dad had glider wings but although he was qualified he never had to use
that training-- fortunately.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Doug Anderson
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:02 AM
To: bwana343 at aol.com; john.szalay at att.net; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON-LSR Maxton/Laurinburg 1944

   of course, the whole point...

       ...  was to get the jeep & Artillery 'TO'  the scene of the combat...

    those fellas had iron guts.  I SALUTE them


  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York,

 -who's dad went thru WWII in a Sherman of the 741st Tank Battallion,  D-Day
to VE Day

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o
oooo



> From: BWANA343 at aol.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:56:24 -0400
> To: john.szalay at att.net; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON-LSR  Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
>
> In a message dated 9/29/2007 11:17:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> john.szalay at att.net writes:
>
> I just  could not believe that anyone would ride a glider
> into an invasion with a  Jeep and artillery aboard into combat.. unreal.
>
> During the war,  paratroops got jump pay, the glider troops got  nothing.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Everything I ever saw/read about these plywood beasts was horrible. Lousy
> handling, nasty landing stats, more injuries than actual combat. Your Sgt
was
> indeed a rarity! I wonder if Life/disability insurance was available back
then?
> That's one perfectly good airplane I'd have no problem jumping out of  !
>

 Bob, no death from splinters needed, W

_________________________________________________________________

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 29 16:33:46 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:33:46 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR  Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
References: <d20.17551b11.342fcfa8@aol.com>
	<BAY135-W108C8A3E6B59044DEC8E2ED9B30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000501c802e8$d31d7350$2101a8c0@WinXP>

That's nothin, my Dad went thru Prohibition as a tail gunner on a beer 
truck.

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Anderson" <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>
To: <bwana343 at aol.com>; <john.szalay at att.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON-LSR Maxton/Laurinburg 1944


>   of course, the whole point...
>
>       ...  was to get the jeep & Artillery 'TO'  the scene of the 
> combat...
>
>    those fellas had iron guts.  I SALUTE them
>
>
>  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York,
>
> -who's dad went thru WWII in a Sherman of the 741st Tank Battallion, 
> D-Day
> to VE Day
>
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> oooo

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sat Sep 29 17:53:44 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:53:44 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Screen
Message-ID: <ccf.1920a855.34303f88@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/29/2007 4:03:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
bobbyhotrods at comcast.net writes:

Has  anyone ever seen a puny filter or screen on an intake for a turbo? My 
deal's  really pretty tight, with the intake facing the block only about an 1 
1/2"  away. I should have something there to keep at least the larger fasteners 
from  going in. 4" diameter.
Alternately I'll make something, maybe using foam  and a screen. Any foam 
experts out there? Thanks, BJ in Beantown, where the  Sox finished in front of 
the Yankees.....




I had the same question/argument with my engine  guy regarding the necessity 
of air filter on inlet. Does it screw up the  Venturi effect and/or the air 
flow? As it's still in the engine compartment I'd  think Salt will work it's way 
in, especially more so as it's not naturally  aspirated.
Am I in the right time zone? Is this the right frequency, Kenneth? I won't  
comment on The Yankees/sux as it's non LSR.
Bob W in Yorktown



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From john.szalay at att.net  Sat Sep 29 18:23:18 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 00:23:18 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NON-  Maxton/Laurinburg 1944
Message-ID: <093020070023.15212.46FEEC760009233300003B6C2161243646970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

Yep the 101st artillery went by glider, the infantry went by parachute.

IIRC:  The saying  was  

Glider troops,
" No jump pay
  No flight Pay,
   But, Never a dull moment."

-------------- Original message from John Streeter <jrstreeter at msn.com>: -------------- 

During the D-Day Invasion the General of the 101st Airborne Division was killed in Action when the glider that he was landing in came to an abrupt stop upon touching down and the Jeep that was inside decided to keep going.

JR Streeter
S & H Landspeed Racing
www.saltfever.com

From rgg14 at cox.net  Sat Sep 29 19:52:59 2007
From: rgg14 at cox.net (rgg14 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:52:59 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Combustion Video
In-Reply-To: <000001c80274$798f8590$6401a8c0@dim8100>
Message-ID: <20070929215259.D0YAF.42676.root@eastrmwml22.mgt.cox.net>

It looks to me that there are droplets of raw fuel near the intakes on every compression stroke. On ignition, they burn with a rich yellow flame instead on controled explosion. Of course YMMV and I've been wrong before. LOL

---- Elon <saltfever at comcast.net> wrote:
Great video of real-time combustion. Try to single-step through it the
second time to see details you missed on the first pass. Looks like the
injectors are only 50% duty cycle. Try and note the spark travel. It moves
to the end of the ground and then the burn starts. Do you think that is
detonation at frame 00:12. Maybe.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...93860613
<http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5815350492893860613&hl=en> &hl=en

-Elon
_______________________________________________
rgg14 at cox.net

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 29 21:53:25 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 03:53:25 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Screen
In-Reply-To: <ccf.1920a855.34303f88@aol.com>
References: <ccf.1920a855.34303f88@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W301699D38213CEAAD3348D9AC0@phx.gbl>

  I foam every time I drink  Beer


  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"  in exile in So. New York,


  -22 miles from Square Deal Raceway,

  -21 miles east of Action Park Speedway,

   -63 miles northeast of Champion Speedway

   -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...

   -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway

   -2325 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats

     and never more than a few feet from a cold one


00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

> From: BWANA343 at aol.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:53:44 -0400
> To: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net; land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Screen
>
> In a message dated 9/29/2007 4:03:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bobbyhotrods at comcast.net writes:
>
> Has  anyone ever seen a puny filter or screen on an intake for a turbo? My
> deal's  really pretty tight, with the intake facing the block only about an
1
> 1/2"  away. I should have something there to keep at least the larger
fasteners
> from  going in. 4" diameter.

> Alternately I'll make something, maybe using foam  and a screen.

Any foam  experts out there?

Thanks, BJ in Beantown, where the  Sox finished in front of  the Yankees.....

_________________________________________________________________
Explore the seven wonders of the world
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 22:03:45 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 00:03:45 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Combustion Video
Message-ID: <000301c80316$e5a9e660$9f3d2544@john>

In about 1947 when GM was planning the Olds and Cadillac ohv v8's which were 
the first modern high compression engines they used glass heads and high 
speed photography on a single cylinder engine to understand detonation . We 
saw a film about that in science class in 1955 . I remember that more 
clearly than anything else in high school . 

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 29 22:24:30 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 04:24:30 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Combustion Video
In-Reply-To: <000301c80316$e5a9e660$9f3d2544@john>
References: <000301c80316$e5a9e660$9f3d2544@john>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W221259D58DAB35436A86F1D9AC0@phx.gbl>

  prolly because that was the most honest thing they ever showed you in High
School


   " when I think back on all the crap I learned in High School, ...

                         ....it's a wonder I can think at all"

                                                                             
 -Simon & Garfunkel


       wiser words were never wrote


cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"


  ====================================================================

> From: joyseydevil at comcast.net
> To: Land-speed at autox.team.net
> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 00:03:45 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Combustion Video
>
> In about 1947 when GM was planning the Olds and Cadillac ohv v8's which were
> the first modern high compression engines they used glass heads and high
> speed photography on a single cylinder engine to understand detonation . We
> saw a film about that in science class in 1955 . I remember that more
> clearly than anything else in high school .

_________________________________________________________________
Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger 
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wl
mailtagline

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Sep 30 06:39:15 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 06:39:15 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] World Finals
Message-ID: <002101c8035e$e98c3bf0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Leaving in about one hour for the salt. Everyone have a safe trip and will see
you there.
Glen

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Sep 30 07:28:23 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 06:28:23 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] WF Thrash
Message-ID: <B17F516A88654C2B87789FFA9EF738B6@LMS>

If I have a good day in the shop----I still have lots of little systems to
check and have to attach and reattach a lot of skin panels!--- 440# of lead IN
and attached and the chutes now attach at the rear of the car...if all goes
well will pull out early Tues AM
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Sep 30 17:08:19 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:08:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] WE Schedule
Message-ID: <47002C63.6030008@mayfco.com>

I see that tech, registration, and pits will open at 10 am. Can we get 
on the salt earlier than that. First timer here so be gentle, 
lol..       But it seems that if tech is open at thesame time as the 
pits open then tech is gonna be sittingon their hands for a couple of 
hours or so...

I will be at the Super 8 Monday night so can I pull onto the salt first 
thing Tuesday morning? Or heck, Monday afternoon? I wouldn't want to set 
up, just park the trailer and homestead pit space for me and Sparky...

mayf