[Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul

joseph lance jolylance at earthlink.net
Sun Jul 15 21:42:33 MDT 2007


Jim;

I agree except for a couple of fine points:

The Hydrogen production cost will be equal to the cost of electricity plus
the capital and operating cost of the electrolyzer facility, the cost of the
water feedstock, plus some profit---I don't think it will ever be as "cheap"
as present day gasoline or diesel.

Hydrogen supply is almost infinite because it is eventually recycled as
water but a regular supply of water for electrolysis will be a significant
cost (as it is for farmers, irrigation, etc.) of hydrogen production,
especially because it will have to be purified or treated before
electrolysis.

Electricity is put on the grid and sold at the market price regardless of 
how it is generated
(nuclear, coal,etc.). Presently operating nuke plants are low cost producers
by a little but their output (~ 22 % of total U.S.) just goes into the
market price.  Electricity will be the biggest cost component of Hydrogen
production. The theoretical maximum efficiency of electrolysis is 86.5 %
(neglecting future breakthroughs) and a lot of development and capital cost
will go into getting close to that figure.

Nuclear power is an "almost infinite supply" of a hundred years if we just
continue to mine and process Uranium, maybe 1000 years if we build breeder
reactors and recycle spent nuclear fuel---beyond that I'm not too worried.

If you guys keep this up, you'll provoke me into doing some capital and
operating cost estimates for Hydrogen fuel production and compare it with
gasoline as oil prices go up (providing it doesn't interfere with lurking,
bench racing, or sex---LOL).

Lance




----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 2:47 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul


> Gasoline and diesel fuel have been developed for over a century now as the
> highest performance, most efficient, CHEAPEST, safest motor fuels ever
> produced.
>
> (Notice that the above list of attributes does NOT include 'low-emissions'
> or 'infinite supply'.)
>
> With the looming necessity of going to an alternative source of
> vehicle-propulsion fuel, we are probably looking at some (or all) of the
> following characteristics:
>
> Lower performance
> More expensive.
> Less safety, or at least increased risk.
> Less efficient.
>
> However, 'cleaner emissions' and 'infinite supply' MAY be on the plus side
> for the future.
>
> Hydrogen does produce very low emissions. Hydrogen CAN be produced very
> cheaply and in almost infinite supply. Hydrogen CAN produce high
> performance.
>
> Efficiency will not really matter if the electricity used to produce the
> hydrogen comes from nuclear power which is extremely cheap and in nearly
> infinite supply.
>
> Safety is still the number one hurdle in all of the above.
>
> Jim McNaul


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