From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Jul  1 06:41:13 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 05:41:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Scale LSR Brits do it again
Message-ID: <000501c7bbdd$1cba81e0$3c01000a@Dale>

http://anonymousblogger.blogspot.com:80/2007/06/132-scale-land-speed-record-t
hose-top.html

dale
ssuunnyy and going to 90+ in Caldwell, id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Jul  1 06:55:14 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 05:55:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Scale LSR Brits do it again
Message-ID: <000801c7bbdf$11dac6c0$3c01000a@Dale>

Subject: Scale LSR Brits do it again



http://anonymousblogger.blogspot.com:80/2007/06/132-scale-land-speed-record-t
hose-top.html

dale
ssuunnyy and going to 90+ in Caldwell, id

From Jimwprice at aol.com  Sun Jul  1 08:02:40 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 10:02:40 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Scale LSR Brits do it again
Message-ID: <c41.1a04bc98.33b90e00@aol.com>

The scale land speed contest video was much more interesting than it had  any 
right to be.




************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Jul  1 10:53:09 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 10:53:09 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Distributor gear help
In-Reply-To: <77668.61979.qm@web50407.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <77668.61979.qm@web50407.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070701105309.klvyppjaosoo84g4@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Just pulled my distributor to verify before a long trip next weekend . . .

bronze gear is showing alarming wear - do I need a steel or iron gear?

MSD, ford.

any help appreciated.

David in Durango

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Jul  1 11:09:39 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 11:09:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Distributor gear help
References: <77668.61979.qm@web50407.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20070701105309.klvyppjaosoo84g4@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
Message-ID: <005c01c7bc02$9c35da80$6401a8c0@Glens>

Marlo had that problem on one of his Ford tow trucks. Had to change it out 
before he went back to Portland. He was in Los Angeles when it happened and 
we used Bob Oppermanns shop for a late niter.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <adin at frontier.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 10:53 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Distributor gear help


> Just pulled my distributor to verify before a long trip next weekend . . .
>
> bronze gear is showing alarming wear - do I need a steel or iron gear?
>
> MSD, ford.
>
> any help appreciated.
>
> David in Durango
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Jul  1 11:29:45 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 13:29:45 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Distributor gear help
Message-ID: <d1a.dd1db58.33b93e89@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/1/2007 10:55:18 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
adin at frontier.net writes:

Just  pulled my distributor to verify before a long trip next weekend . .  .

bronze gear is showing alarming wear - do I need a steel or iron  gear?

MSD, ford.

any help appreciated.

David in  Durango




Hi David
 
Are you running a billet roller cam? If not, the stock iron gear will work  
fine and won't wear as fast as the bronze. If this is a street vehicle, forget  
the bronze gear, it will wear "alarmingly" fast! As I understand it, the 
bronze  gears are only for billet cams, but what the hell do I know! LOL
 
Otto



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Jul  1 12:25:07 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 12:25:07 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Distributor gear help
In-Reply-To: <d1a.dd1db58.33b93e89@aol.com>
References: <d1a.dd1db58.33b93e89@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20070701122507.k3x5o8k2880s8kg0@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

It is a roller cam - don't know about the billet part, I'm checking on  
this now.

thanks!


Quoting Askotto at aol.com:

>
> In a message dated 7/1/2007 10:55:18 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> adin at frontier.net writes:
>
> Just  pulled my distributor to verify before a long trip next weekend . .  .
>
> bronze gear is showing alarming wear - do I need a steel or iron  gear?
>
> MSD, ford.
>
> any help appreciated.
>
> David in  Durango
>
>
>
>
> Hi David
>
> Are you running a billet roller cam? If not, the stock iron gear will work
> fine and won't wear as fast as the bronze. If this is a street   
> vehicle, forget
> the bronze gear, it will wear "alarmingly" fast! As I understand it, the
> bronze  gears are only for billet cams, but what the hell do I know! LOL
>
> Otto
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Jul  1 12:28:51 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 11:28:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Scale LSR Brits do it again
References: <c41.1a04bc98.33b90e00@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002101c7bc0d$ace82440$3c01000a@Dale>

Brits seem to be having more fun than they should
dale

  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Scale LSR Brits do it again


  The scale land speed contest video was much more interesting than it had any
right to be.





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
  See what's free at AOL.com.

From Flowbench at aol.com  Sun Jul  1 12:39:13 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 14:39:13 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Distributor gear help
Message-ID: <bff.1a63acd3.33b94ed1@aol.com>

Crane is the only company I know that makes a steel gear that will not wear  
out on a 8620 steel billet roller cam, I've used many of them. Comp makes a  
composite gear but only for Chevrolets & sb Ford, I don't know if you have a  
BB or SB.
A bronze gear will wear out on a steel cam unless your not driving an oil  
pump (i.e. dry sump), thats what it's designed to do.
The Crane gear sells for around $60.
Good Luck.



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun Jul  1 12:42:18 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 11:42:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Scale LSR Brits do it again
In-Reply-To: <000801c7bbdf$11dac6c0$3c01000a@Dale>
References: <000801c7bbdf$11dac6c0$3c01000a@Dale>
Message-ID: <001c01c7bc0f$8db09600$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Thanks, Dale. But....the Nevada salt flats???????

Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dale H Pulju
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 5:55 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Scale LSR Brits do it again

Subject: Scale LSR Brits do it again



http://anonymousblogger.blogspot.com:80/2007/06/132-scale-land-speed-record-
t
hose-top.html

dale
ssuunnyy and going to 90+ in Caldwell, id

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Jul  1 14:36:44 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 14:36:44 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Distributor gear help
In-Reply-To: <bff.1a63acd3.33b94ed1@aol.com>
References: <bff.1a63acd3.33b94ed1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20070701143644.0nuexbclws8kgwwg@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

SBF w/ roller hydraulic.

Just need to find the proper part now (here w/ little in the way of  
parts stores and machine shops) w/ 2 days before the holiday - looks  
like i'm into backup transportation.

Thanks much!



Quoting Flowbench at aol.com:

> Crane is the only company I know that makes a steel gear that will not wear
> out on a 8620 steel billet roller cam, I've used many of them. Comp makes a
> composite gear but only for Chevrolets & sb Ford, I don't know if you have a
> BB or SB.
> A bronze gear will wear out on a steel cam unless your not driving an oil
> pump (i.e. dry sump), thats what it's designed to do.
> The Crane gear sells for around $60.
> Good Luck.
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Jul  2 05:58:56 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 04:58:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Goodwood Festival of Speed! - Corvette Forum
Message-ID: <000501c7bca0$5ed9a6a0$3c01000a@Dale>

http://forums.corvetteforum.com:80/showthread.php?t=1746164

Jack makes the background in this pic.
dale
ssuunnyy and going to 95+ in Caldwell, id

From saltfevr at mail.sisna.com  Mon Jul  2 07:47:34 2007
From: saltfevr at mail.sisna.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon,  2 Jul 2007 07:47:34 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Goodwood Festival of Speed! - Corvette Forum
Message-ID: <200707020747.AA1522991170@mail.sisna.com>

Dale;

Thanks for sharing. Cya at Salt Talks!



Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah



---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>
Date:  Mon, 2 Jul 2007 04:58:56 -0700

>http://forums.corvetteforum.com:80/showthread.php?t=1746164
>
>Jack makes the background in this pic.
>dale
>ssuunnyy and going to 95+ in Caldwell, id

>
 
 
_________________________________
SISNA...more service, less money.
http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/ 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Jul  2 07:53:11 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 07:53:11 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] short vacation
Message-ID: <000c01c7bcb0$54ccea90$6401a8c0@Glens>

Will be gone until Friday, taking laptop if it will work where we are staying.
See ya later
Glen

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Jul  2 15:02:57 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 14:02:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fire Bottle Question
Message-ID: <46896801.6050605@mayfco.com>

Do our halon fire bottle age out? Is there a specified amount of time 
that they can be used before we have to replace them? Just curious..

mayf

From kturk at ala.net  Mon Jul  2 15:32:11 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:32:11 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Hey SKIP..
Message-ID: <016001c7bcf0$74147860$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Skip  I think your the guy who gave me the source for the water pump I'm using
on the Camaro and Berkeley.... it's just a water pump to move water from
around the radiator ...

Having lost the information on where to buy it... I obviously need to find it
again... Seems David has some grand scheme he's working on right now... and
some of it entails moving water around an intercooler...

Keith ( thanks by the way )( if someone wants to send me Skip's number that
would work too )

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Mon Jul  2 17:17:36 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 19:17:36 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Goodwood Festival of Speed! - Corvette Forum
Message-ID: <d4e.c2fd1ca.33bae190@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/2/2007 7:59:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
d.pulju at pahrump.com writes:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com:80/showthread.php?t=1746164

Jack  makes the background in this pic.
dale
ssuunnyy and going to 95+ in  Caldwell, id


Which/where/what ?  Jack's the Blue overalls? Either way, enjoyed the  black 
line/Salt Thing, AND all the LSR Legends in the pix.  Goodwood is top  of my 
Euro to-do list, definitely The Show in Great Britain.
Is everybody on vacation on this list? Anybody going to WOS or WF  instead of 
the Big Show this year?
We got some surgery lined up for early August, plan on WOS instead.  
Hopefully got our drive train gearing configured correctly now. Previous FD  allowed 
runs up to under only 270 mph....yeah, right...
Bob, gearloosed Gyro, W 



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Jul  2 18:59:44 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:59:44 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR, NEW PAHRUMP BUSINESS
Message-ID: <000e01c7bd0d$71ddbc10$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Any of you Pahrump guys on the Welcome Wagon Committee for Heidi Fleiss's new
business in your town?

The news report says the business will be called the "Dirty Laundry"--didn't
say if they will serve breakfast.

Lance

From joetimney at dol.net  Mon Jul  2 20:58:19 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 21:58:19 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fire Bottle Question
In-Reply-To: <46896801.6050605@mayfco.com>
References: <46896801.6050605@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4689BB4B.9020109@dol.net>

Mayf,
	Halon extinguisher manufacturers will not be able to re cert or refill 
after Dec 2007. Halon does not go bad but the valving and pressure 
rupture discs are suspect after several years. Some organizations, NHRA 
for one, have mandated annual and semi annual inspection of the systems. 
We should send our bottles back to the manufacturer every five years.
	By the way, Halon is still the best extinguisher product ever!!! Oh 
course, you can't breath it or you pass out due to lack of oxygen. 		 
The replacement gas agent, FE36 is not near as good. The other 
replacement agent, foam does a good job but needs to have a bladder 
separating it from the propellant to get all of the foam on the fire, 
nitrogen molecules are smaller than foam/water so they come out faster, 
leaving 1/3 of the agent in the bottle. 			
	The manufacturer I currently sell for will have a dual gas & foam unit 
out in the fall. I have witnessed the testing, the foam cools the FE36 
and the FE36 excites the foam into a better product.

I have gotten one hell of an education selling systems for many years. 
Attending the SFI conferences at PRI every year has also really helped.

My two cents,
joe

drmayf wrote:
> Do our halon fire bottle age out? Is there a specified amount of time 
> that they can be used before we have to replace them? Just curious..
> 
> mayf
> _______________________________________________

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Tue Jul  3 18:06:29 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 20:06:29 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON-LSR, NEW PAHRUMP BUSINESS
Message-ID: <c94.147b16dd.33bc3e85@aol.com>

It's a laundromat, get your mind out of the gutter !.... 
_http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/strange/news-article.aspx?storyid=8563_ 
(http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/strange/news-article.aspx?storyid=8563) 
 It's a public service provided by a civic minded new resident  of  Pahrumph, 
the only town named after a Fart.
Bob, drives civic-like race car, W



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From beckwithbob at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  4 05:57:38 2007
From: beckwithbob at hotmail.com (Bob Beckwith)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 07:57:38 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires needed
Message-ID: <BAY120-F9E05A5A6C9633A53FE883AD030@phx.gbl>

   Good Morning;

   I  am  trying  to  procure a set of tires for a land speed car for the
   August  Speed  week.   We  are looking for front tires in the 4.5 to 5
   inch wide range and 23 to 25 inches tall.  The rears could be 5.5 to 9
   inches  wide  and  26 to 28 inches tall.  Vehicle weight will be under
   6000  pounds. Does anyone have anything or suggestion on where I might
   find these?

   Thanks...
     _________________________________________________________________

   More  photos,  more  messages,  more  storageget 2GB with Windows Live
   Hotmail.

From kturk at ala.net  Wed Jul  4 06:14:35 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 07:14:35 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires needed
References: <BAY120-F9E05A5A6C9633A53FE883AD030@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <021d01c7be34$e34e3a00$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Bob I heard from a friend that Goodyear is making a small run of LSR tires 
right now... I think they are strictly 28"s... and don't have any data to 
confirm this... but the guy has been talking to Goodyear for a while...  I'd 
contact Shelby America in LA to see what they have to say...

Keith 

From smsandimas at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  4 06:22:49 2007
From: smsandimas at earthlink.net (Steve Meierdiercks)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 07:22:49 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires needed
Message-ID: <380-22007734122249546@earthlink.net>

    BOB,
         Try Goodyear,they have tires in the size you are looking for.Don't know where you are located,but if you look at their web site you should be able to find a distributor close to you.

STEVE
> 
>    Good Morning;
>
>    I  am  trying  to  procure a set of tires for a land speed car for the
>    August  Speed  week.   We  are looking for front tires in the 4.5 to 5
>    inch wide range and 23 to 25 inches tall.  The rears could be 5.5 to 9
>    inches  wide  and  26 to 28 inches tall.  Vehicle weight will be under
>    6000  pounds. Does anyone have anything or suggestion on where I might
>    find these?
>
>    Thanks...
>      _________________________________________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________

>
>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at ala.net  Wed Jul  4 06:23:30 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 07:23:30 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires needed
References: <BAY120-F9E05A5A6C9633A53FE883AD030@phx.gbl>
	<021d01c7be34$e34e3a00$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <022401c7be36$21fb3090$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Since the front are non drive tires they can simply be front runners... they 
can be the drag race style.

K 

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Jul  4 08:03:41 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 07:03:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
Message-ID: <1A6F3536FDFA4457B6B5083C914CC11E@LMS>

I am Whining---I know I know  no whining allowed!!!!!!!!!! in
LSR----manufacturing tolerances---Brand Names that FORMERLY had good
reputations for quality now nearly all have overseas supliers-- the tolerances
can be horrible and MOST will not own up to it --- just bought a new flex
plate has more run out than the new starter has shims---I am not  the first on
this list that this has cost time and money---get a commitment on how they
will handle the problem
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From SCowle at mentorcollege.edu  Wed Jul  4 08:19:24 2007
From: SCowle at mentorcollege.edu (Scott Cowle)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 10:19:24 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
In-Reply-To: <1A6F3536FDFA4457B6B5083C914CC11E@LMS>
References: <1A6F3536FDFA4457B6B5083C914CC11E@LMS>
Message-ID: <468B742C0200003800004719@gw.mentorcollege.edu>

Hi Sparky -I go to a parts supplier in my home town who actually tells me
right up front what the good parts are and what is the crap stuff,and he has
never been wrong yet. It goes a long way when you can get that kind of help.
Scott

>>> "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net> 7/4/2007 10:03 AM >>>
I am Whining---I know I know  no whining allowed!!!!!!!!!! in
LSR----manufacturing tolerances---Brand Names that FORMERLY had good
reputations for quality now nearly all have overseas supliers-- the
tolerances
can be horrible and MOST will not own up to it --- just bought a new flex
plate has more run out than the new starter has shims---I am not  the first
on
this list that this has cost time and money---get a commitment on how they
will handle the problem
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
_______________________________________________
scowle at mentorcollege.edu

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



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Any review, use, or distribution or disclosure by others is
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authorized to receive the information from the recipient, please
contact the sender by email and delete all copies of this message.
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From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Wed Jul  4 09:40:04 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 11:40:04 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires needed
References: <BAY120-F9E05A5A6C9633A53FE883AD030@phx.gbl>
	<021d01c7be34$e34e3a00$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <002201c7be51$99ebbbe0$6401a8c0@Rick>

Good Year 25' and 28' LSR tires are in stock now in Akron.  The Ford deal 
I'm involved with should have ours this week.
Verified by GY and Comp Tire Midwest who they were ordered thru.

Rick Byrnes 

From dlodom at charter.net  Wed Jul  4 12:59:46 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:59:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
In-Reply-To: <1A6F3536FDFA4457B6B5083C914CC11E@LMS>
References: <1A6F3536FDFA4457B6B5083C914CC11E@LMS>
Message-ID: <468BEE22.50909@charter.net>

Sparky wrote:

>I am Whining---I know I know  no whining allowed!!!!!!!!!! in
>LSR----manufacturing tolerances---Brand Names that FORMERLY had good
>reputations for quality now nearly all have overseas supliers-- the tolerances
>can be horrible and MOST will not own up to it --- just bought a new flex
>plate has more run out than the new starter has shims---I am not  the first on
>this list that this has cost time and money---get a commitment on how they
>will handle the problem
>      Sparky
>AA/_ L  2211
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>  
>
Sparky, What starter are you using? I'm asking because a stock type 
starter with regular 3/8 bolts,  not starter bolts can give you a problem.
I have used cheap flex plates before and not had any problems with run 
out. Did have a guy put one on backwards once ( he said it was his 15 
year old son ).
That didn't work too well.
Doug Odom in big ditch where it will be 73* today.

From neil at dbelltech.com  Wed Jul  4 14:58:28 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 13:58:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
In-Reply-To: <468B742C0200003800004719@gw.mentorcollege.edu>
References: <1A6F3536FDFA4457B6B5083C914CC11E@LMS>
	<468B742C0200003800004719@gw.mentorcollege.edu>
Message-ID: <000801c7be7e$12980d60$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Sparky;

Any chance you can tell us the name(s) of those brands? I'd sure like to
avoid them!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Scott Cowle
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 7:19 AM
To: Sparky
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin

Hi Sparky -I go to a parts supplier in my home town who actually tells me
right up front what the good parts are and what is the crap stuff,and he has
never been wrong yet. It goes a long way when you can get that kind of help.
Scott

>>> "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net> 7/4/2007 10:03 AM >>>
I am Whining---I know I know  no whining allowed!!!!!!!!!! in
LSR----manufacturing tolerances---Brand Names that FORMERLY had good
reputations for quality now nearly all have overseas supliers-- the
tolerances
can be horrible and MOST will not own up to it --- just bought a new flex
plate has more run out than the new starter has shims---I am not  the first
on
this list that this has cost time and money---get a commitment on how they
will handle the problem
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
_______________________________________________
scowle at mentorcollege.edu

From rgg14 at cox.net  Wed Jul  4 17:49:55 2007
From: rgg14 at cox.net (rgg14 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:49:55 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
Message-ID: <24553316.1183592995550.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml27.mgt.cox.net>

Sparky
Wouldn't that much runout also cause balance problems??
--- just bought a new flex
plate has more run out than the new starter has shims---

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Jul  4 17:58:24 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:58:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
In-Reply-To: <1A6F3536FDFA4457B6B5083C914CC11E@LMS>
References: <1A6F3536FDFA4457B6B5083C914CC11E@LMS>
Message-ID: <468C3420.6070801@mayfco.com>

Bill, remember that the flex plate is also bolted to a very close 
tolerance torque converter (generally) and that brings the flex plate 
back into trueness. The flex plate just carries the starter ring gear as 
its only purpose in life. I don't remember whether or not you are using 
a torque converter, but that will straighten out the issue.

mayf
Sparky wrote:

>I am Whining---I know I know  no whining allowed!!!!!!!!!! in
>LSR----manufacturing tolerances---Brand Names that FORMERLY had good
>reputations for quality now nearly all have overseas supliers-- the tolerances
>can be horrible and MOST will not own up to it --- just bought a new flex
>plate has more run out than the new starter has shims---I am not  the first on
>this list that this has cost time and money---get a commitment on how they
>will handle the problem
>      Sparky
>AA/_ L  2211
>_______________________________________________

From beckwithbob at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  4 18:31:58 2007
From: beckwithbob at hotmail.com (Bob Beckwith)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 20:31:58 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Land speed guys are the best. - flagrant patronage
Message-ID: <BAY120-F150A6AC322C7F4CFBAF3B7AD020@phx.gbl>

   WOW.   What  a response for my first post on this list.  Thank you all
   for  the great information. I'll be calling Goodyear in the morning! I
   may still need a few spares though.

   I  think this must be the rest of the equation to why I am so drawn to
   this  segment  of  the  auto racing sport.  Everyone involved is doing
   what  they  do  out  of  passion...  not for the prize money and media
   accolades.  While the rest of the sport is turning into a spec series,
   Land  Speed  is  the  last frontier.... where brains really matter and
   lots of  money  doesn't  necessarily  win (I am sure it would make the
   ride a bunch more comfortable).

   Thanks again,

   Bob
     _________________________________________________________________

   More  photos,  more  messages,  more  storageget 2GB with Windows Live
   Hotmail.

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Jul  4 18:33:34 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:33:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR----UREKA
Message-ID: <1008FDD5F1824BBC87E7B2298BA2305A@LMS>

Well---got lucky----took my two starters apart (one new one old)  and
"stacked" the parts to the give me the most clearance and with all of the
shims---got it to work and FIREed  IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as KT says "life is
good"
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Jul  4 18:36:11 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:36:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
In-Reply-To: <24553316.1183592995550.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml27.mgt.cox.net>
References: <24553316.1183592995550.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml27.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <A6EEBD11D4DE447AB418195BD93A99B8@LMS>

The run out was fore and afft---not out of round
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: rgg14 at cox.net
  To: Sparky ; AA List
  Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 4:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin



  Sparky

  Wouldn't that much runout also cause balance problems??

  --- just bought a new flex
  plate has more run out than the new starter has shims---

From wmtsmith at cox.net  Wed Jul  4 18:37:42 2007
From: wmtsmith at cox.net (Wm. T. Smith)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:37:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
In-Reply-To: <468C3420.6070801@mayfco.com>
References: <1A6F3536FDFA4457B6B5083C914CC11E@LMS>
	<468C3420.6070801@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4B03C8E57D1F40FF97B6C150A4402F52@LMS>

And the winner of the day is DR Mayf---I am not running a torque converter..
      Sparky 
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
Cc: "AA List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin


> Bill, remember that the flex plate is also bolted to a very close 
> tolerance torque converter (generally) and that brings the flex plate 
> back into trueness. The flex plate just carries the starter ring gear as 
> its only purpose in life. I don't remember whether or not you are using 
> a torque converter, but that will straighten out the issue.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Jul  4 18:51:30 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:51:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
In-Reply-To: <4B03C8E57D1F40FF97B6C150A4402F52@LMS>
References: <1A6F3536FDFA4457B6B5083C914CC11E@LMS>
	<468C3420.6070801@mayfco.com> <4B03C8E57D1F40FF97B6C150A4402F52@LMS>
Message-ID: <468C4092.7010605@mayfco.com>

Interesting, isn't it. SInce you are direct drive, why not use a true 
light weight flywheel as the transmisson hub/input shaft carrier. That 
would definitely be true and the small added mass would help any 
pulsations in the engine. Might not rev so quickly but then maybe a bit 
slower is better, especially with an automatic tanny? Not so much near 
instantaneous stress on rotating stuff?

glad to hear you got the problem solved and you have it running. Thoae 
are real Yee Ha moments! Congrats...

When you coming up this way again?

mayf
Wm. T. Smith wrote:

> And the winner of the day is DR Mayf---I am not running a torque 
> converter..
>      Sparky AA/_ L  2211
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
> Cc: "AA List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 4:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
>
>
>> Bill, remember that the flex plate is also bolted to a very close 
>> tolerance torque converter (generally) and that brings the flex plate 
>> back into trueness. The flex plate just carries the starter ring gear 
>> as its only purpose in life. I don't remember whether or not you are 
>> using a torque converter, but that will straighten out the issue.

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  4 20:01:24 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
In-Reply-To: <468C3420.6070801@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <733409.15213.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote: .. .. . The flex plate just carries the starter ring gear as its only purpose in life. 
   
  Well, not it's Only Purpose in Life - - those tiny little bolts are the only thing connecting the motor to the transmission, and in turn to the wheels.  They're pretty inportant little bolts, and the flex plates role in holding them is pretty important too.
   
  DickJ
  In east Texas
   

       
---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  4 20:10:23 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 02:10:23 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Land speed guys are the best. - flagrant patronage
In-Reply-To: <BAY120-F150A6AC322C7F4CFBAF3B7AD020@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F3011017AF226B6681AA6F2D9020@phx.gbl>

       Hi Bob     oh really?       LOL

      "welcome to the club"     -we've known that fo' years !

          It's just the best.       ENJOY.


  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,
                              Cold Beer, Fast Cars, an' Warm Willin' Wimin'

  Speedway Bikes, Harley D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
  Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,
  LSR, Aerial Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,

        -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they are

  ------------------------------------- oooo 
--------------------------------------


From: "Bob Beckwith" <beckwithbob at hotmail.com>
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Land speed guys are the best. - flagrant patronage
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 20:31:58 -0400



    WOW.   What  a response for my first post on this list.  Thank you all
    for  the great information. I'll be calling Goodyear in the morning! I
    may still need a few spares though.

    I  think this must be the rest of the equation to why I am so drawn to
    this  segment  of  the  auto racing sport.  Everyone involved is doing
    what  they  do  out  of  passion...  not for the prize money and media
    accolades.  While the rest of the sport is turning into a spec series,
    Land  Speed  is  the  last frontier.... where brains really matter and
    lots of  money  doesn't  necessarily  win (I am sure it would make the
    ride a bunch more comfortable).

    Thanks again,    Bob

_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Jul  4 21:59:12 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 20:59:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Land speed guys are the best. - flagrant patronage
In-Reply-To: <BAY120-F150A6AC322C7F4CFBAF3B7AD020@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY120-F150A6AC322C7F4CFBAF3B7AD020@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <EAE605E392CA442E83E7B55F6028C72C@LMS>

Bob,  Tell us a little about yourself and what you are running!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky 
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Beckwith" <beckwithbob at hotmail.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Land speed guys are the best. - flagrant patronage

From kturk at ala.net  Thu Jul  5 05:06:59 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 06:06:59 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
Message-ID: <02a901c7bef4$9bdbf610$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Just a couple of quick thoughts while I cool down...

1.   Always take a break when your upset... it seems to make things better. (
the relative size of the hammer on your return seems to be smaller )

2.   When tig welding aluminum... ( maybe even steel )  it's always better to
turn the gas prior to the application of the first arc...  other wise you'll
end up with some of that tip in your weld.

3.  irregardless of your current state of tan... ( browning of one's skin )
it's always better to wear a long sleeve shirt.. and maybe even pants...  (
long pants )... oh and socks...with your shoes ( maybe even boots covered by
your pants leg ...hmmm )

4.  When cleaning off a weld that's been contaminated with a piece of tig rod
tip... ( see #2 above ) and using the tig for heat.... a wire brush that is
used for Aluminum only... try not to brush towards yourself... ( especially if
you didn't head #3 )  Once you have accomplished this anyway... remember to
set the torch down and turn off the handle ( hand operated heat only, foot
pedals will be clear when you start your exercises )   Jumping up and down
only furthers the burning embers path into your tennis shoe.. thereby burning
the tender part of your foot.. ya know right under the arch thing... ( the
un-used portion of your foot anyway )...

5 Last but not least.. always secure large items to your bench...  if you
simply start your exercises in mid yelling... and pitch the torch ... often
times it could become involved with the grounding cable... which might bring
the whole mess to the floor... ( which might not be a bad thing in that the
hammer is much more effective when used against a solid surface )

Damn I love racing at Bonneville...

Keith

From fosterap at flash.net  Thu Jul  5 06:02:33 2007
From: fosterap at flash.net (JERRY FOSTER)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 05:02:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
In-Reply-To: <02a901c7bef4$9bdbf610$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <681118.26346.qm@web80613.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

You're right Keith......those little hot things always find their way into your shoe!  I have a lot of socks with holes.
   
  Jerry in Dallas 

Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net> wrote:
  Just a couple of quick thoughts while I cool down...

1. Always take a break when your upset... it seems to make things better. (
the relative size of the hammer on your return seems to be smaller )

2. When tig welding aluminum... ( maybe even steel ) it's always better to
turn the gas prior to the application of the first arc... other wise you'll
end up with some of that tip in your weld.

3. irregardless of your current state of tan... ( browning of one's skin )
it's always better to wear a long sleeve shirt.. and maybe even pants... (
long pants )... oh and socks...with your shoes ( maybe even boots covered by
your pants leg ...hmmm )

4. When cleaning off a weld that's been contaminated with a piece of tig rod
tip... ( see #2 above ) and using the tig for heat.... a wire brush that is
used for Aluminum only... try not to brush towards yourself... ( especially if
you didn't head #3 ) Once you have accomplished this anyway... remember to
set the torch down and turn off the handle ( hand operated heat only, foot
pedals will be clear when you start your exercises ) Jumping up and down
only furthers the burning embers path into your tennis shoe.. thereby burning
the tender part of your foot.. ya know right under the arch thing... ( the
un-used portion of your foot anyway )...

5 Last but not least.. always secure large items to your bench... if you
simply start your exercises in mid yelling... and pitch the torch ... often
times it could become involved with the grounding cable... which might bring
the whole mess to the floor... ( which might not be a bad thing in that the
hammer is much more effective when used against a solid surface )

Damn I love racing at Bonneville...

Keith
_______________________________________________

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Jul  5 07:17:56 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 06:17:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TheSamba.com :: View topic - Drag Racing and a 36hp
 unlimited class
Message-ID: <000501c7bf06$e7658e90$3c01000a@Dale>

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2332363#2332363

another Bonneville record chaser, working on 36  hp Volkswagen hop up
dale
ssuunnyy and going to 100+ in Caldwell, id

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Thu Jul  5 07:52:33 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:52:33 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
Message-ID: <be1.173be896.33be51a1@aol.com>

To me there is something magical when I read about TIG welding, brings back 
great memories of TIG welding GP Bugatti body work. That was 23 years ago but 
just reading TIG will give me a flashback to those times. The shop had an old 
machine and it would only work on aluminum, some day before I croke I want a 
shot at TIG welding steel, they say if I can still do aluminum I should be able 
to do steel.Nothing quite that roll of dimes look the TIG bead gives you.  
Remember stick welding? Does anyone still use that? Bob in connecticut



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Thu Jul  5 08:14:09 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 07:14:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR Frustratioin
In-Reply-To: <733409.15213.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <733409.15213.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9E4E6C09-12C6-4AAD-AB6D-802A4E1F100C@gmail.com>

You can say that again. I had a 90 Dodge Daytona with a 2.5 turbo,  
and I sheared the flexplate right at the bolt holes not once, but  
twice. After I installed the second flex plate, I decided I should  
sell the car, cause I didn't want to put a third in. On the bright  
side, it spun a rod bearing shortly therafter, so I didn't have to  
worry about the flexplate breaking again.


On Jul 4, 2007, at 7:01 PM, Dick J wrote:

> drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote: .. .. . The flex plate just  
> carries the starter ring gear as its only purpose in life.
>
>   Well, not it's Only Purpose in Life - - those tiny little bolts  
> are the only thing connecting the motor to the transmission, and in  
> turn to the wheels.  They're pretty inportant little bolts, and the  
> flex plates role in holding them is pretty important too.
>
>   DickJ
>   In east Texas

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Jul  5 08:18:17 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 07:18:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
References: <be1.173be896.33be51a1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001101c7bf0f$5cc382c0$6501a8c0@S>

Hmmmm...... The Zen of TIG welding.
One of those experiences in life that make you seriously wish you had a
third arm.  I suspect some experience with yoga techniques might help.  Lots
of respect here for the "kids" who can put a good TIG weld on the down side
of the tube junctions in a roll cage.

I'm old enough now (as friend, Doug, would say, "older than dirt") that my
hand-eye coordination is not as good as it used to be.
Anyway, as the Miller Econotig sits in the shop used only for stick welding,
I'm seriously considering investing in a Linclon 180C MIG.  The local
welding store is having a sale this month.

By the way, when I was getting new glasses last month the optician was
telling me about how they can make the bifocal lenses special with the close
up reading part at the top of the lens for working close up overhead.

Ed Weldon

From beckwithbob at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  5 08:23:02 2007
From: beckwithbob at hotmail.com (Bob Beckwith)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:23:02 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires needed - Thanks
Message-ID: <BAY120-F23180EED8B04C6551E6F95AD020@phx.gbl>

   Guys;

    Thanks for the help.  Goodyear has them!  One more thing to check off
   the  BIG list! I would still like a spare if possible.  4.5 x 23 to 25
   front and 5.5 to 9 x 28 rear. Anyone have any extras?

   Lots to do and time is really getting short. Good luck to everyone.

   Bob

     _________________________________________________________________

   Missed the show?  Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN.

From joetimney at dol.net  Thu Jul  5 09:23:51 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:23:51 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
In-Reply-To: <be1.173be896.33be51a1@aol.com>
References: <be1.173be896.33be51a1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <468D0D07.5020800@dol.net>

First of all, Keith's little writeup cracked me up!!!LOL Oh, I have done 
all of those things...AND MORE!!!
Bob,
I use stick to weld the tubes to the center section of 12 bolt Chevy and 
Dana rears for drag racers. I use All-state 275 electrode for high 
alloy, carbon steel or SS. it is the only rod I have found that is crack 
resistant. Of course, pre and post heating is critical for this type of 
work.
Other than that, I use stick when I'm building Bridges!!!

Come on down to Delaware and spend the afternoon welding all your heart 
can stand.
joe

Want1937hd at aol.com wrote:
> To me there is something magical when I read about TIG welding, brings back 
> great memories of TIG welding GP Bugatti body work. That was 23 years ago but 
> just reading TIG will give me a flashback to those times. The shop had an old 
> machine and it would only work on aluminum, some day before I croke I want a 
> shot at TIG welding steel, they say if I can still do aluminum I should be able 
> to do steel.Nothing quite that roll of dimes look the TIG bead gives you.  
> Remember stick welding? Does anyone still use that? Bob in connecticut
> 
> 
> 
> ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From kturk at ala.net  Thu Jul  5 09:18:51 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 10:18:51 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
References: <be1.173be896.33be51a1@aol.com> <001101c7bf0f$5cc382c0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <02fc01c7bf17$cb764fb0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Shoot and now I gotta invite Zen to the dance?  maybe he can be my third 
hand... hmmm

Row of dimes eh.... Hmmm I've seen welding like that... ( just not in my 
shop )

My welding more resembles Mud Dobbers.... well ... okay Mud Dobbers who've 
been drinking a bit...   instead of a row of dimes... think of a ship wreck 
and how wonderfully those coins are displayed on the bottom of the ocean.... 
now that could be me... ( please feel free to add the crustations to the 
visual image... )( yeah I know what one is... it's why God gave us the 
discovery channel... that and so we could watch people who actually know how 
to weld )

Best of all.... this stuff is STUCK together and won't leak water... oh and 
I did it my very own self....  ain't fancy... just DONE...

Keith.... 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul  5 10:05:33 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:05:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Thinking of a car.....
Message-ID: <468D16CD.5020101@mayfco.com>

for the wife to drive at Bville. SHe has exhibited only minimal interest 
in driving there but did say that if the car was not a screaming demon 
she would give it a try. So, while thumbing my way through the Hot Rod 
mag, August issue I see on the bottom of page 77 a Chevrolet Turbo 
Sprint, circa 1987. This would be the perfect car. 993 cc displacement, 
a small turbo to keep me happy and just enough speed to interest the wife. 

So where can I find one that is dirt cheap? I surfed around here but 
nothing.  This is a large list so maybe one of you knows some one who 
has one that wants to get rid of it at very low price?

Keep an eye out for me?

mayf

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Jul  5 12:50:17 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:50:17 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Misc. BS
Message-ID: <W50081122857421183661417@webmail30>

Well, after almost a month on the road, seeing the Southern portion ofthe US
through a Corvette windshield, I've finally made it home....Just in time for
116 degree heat.. One of the highlites of he trip hadto be a week-end at
Maxton. What a gem they have tucked away in thewoods there! Special thanks to
the Turks & Timneys for the VIPtreatment. Sooo., it's back to my non-air
conditioned shop towork on the car some more. At last the weatherman is
calling forthe temperature to plunge to 110 by this week-end............


Ed Van Scoy
#128 B/GT Corvette
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Jul  5 12:58:05 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:58:05 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Thinking of a car.....
Message-ID: <070520071858.12335.468D3F3D0005D7D00000302F2200735834CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Ron Christensen, the guy on our USFRA radio 1610 (we loan it to the SCTA) built one of these. He and his wife Ellen set several class records in the 112-117 mph range with it several years ago before whe died of cancer.  He dubbed it "The Salted Peanut" for some local car shows.  It now camaigns in California at El Mirage.  Ron played with the turbocharger to get a little more boost out of the engine.  Ellen actually set the fastest speed with the car ... said it was because Ron is a road racer and she just drove in a straight line.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> for the wife to drive at Bville. SHe has exhibited only minimal interest 
> in driving there but did say that if the car was not a screaming demon 
> she would give it a try. So, while thumbing my way through the Hot Rod 
> mag, August issue I see on the bottom of page 77 a Chevrolet Turbo 
> Sprint, circa 1987. This would be the perfect car. 993 cc displacement, 
> a small turbo to keep me happy and just enough speed to interest the wife. 
> 
> So where can I find one that is dirt cheap? I surfed around here but 
> nothing.  This is a large list so maybe one of you knows some one who 
> has one that wants to get rid of it at very low price?
> 
> Keep an eye out for me?
> 
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Jul  5 13:19:40 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:19:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Misc. BS
In-Reply-To: <W50081122857421183661417@webmail30>
References: <W50081122857421183661417@webmail30>
Message-ID: <468D444C.9020107@charter.net>

ed at vetteracing.com wrote:

>Well, after almost a month on the road, seeing the Southern portion ofthe US
>through a Corvette windshield, I've finally made it home....Just in time for
>116 degree heat.. One of the highlites of he trip hadto be a week-end at
>Maxton. What a gem they have tucked away in thewoods there! Special thanks to
>the Turks & Timneys for the VIPtreatment. Sooo., it's back to my non-air
>conditioned shop towork on the car some more. At last the weatherman is
>calling forthe temperature to plunge to 110 by this week-end............
>
>
>Ed Van Scoy
>#128 B/GT Corvette
>SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder
>_______________________________________________
>dlodom at charter.net
>
>
>  
>
Hey Ed, Drag it over here to big ditch and work on it. It was 73* 
yesterday and today.
Big ditch has refused to participate in global warming.
Record high was 108* set in Aug. 1962.
Record for July is 104 set in 1953.

Doug Odom in big ditch

From kd5kzn at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jul  5 20:19:31 2007
From: kd5kzn at sbcglobal.net (Bow)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 21:19:31 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Thinking of a car.....
In-Reply-To: <468D16CD.5020101@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20070705202503.72298187A06@autox.team.net>

Hay Mayf,

You might start your search here:
http://www.teamswift.net/index.php

The Sprint is a re-badged Suzuki (like the Geo line of cars is)

Sounds like a fun project.


Bow




-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:06
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] Thinking of a car.....

for the wife to drive at Bville. SHe has exhibited only minimal interest in
driving there but did say that if the car was not a screaming demon she
would give it a try. So, while thumbing my way through the Hot Rod mag,
August issue I see on the bottom of page 77 a Chevrolet Turbo Sprint, circa
1987. This would be the perfect car. 993 cc displacement, a small turbo to
keep me happy and just enough speed to interest the wife. 

So where can I find one that is dirt cheap? I surfed around here but
nothing.  This is a large list so maybe one of you knows some one who has
one that wants to get rid of it at very low price?

Keep an eye out for me?

mayf
_______________________________________________
kd5kzn at sbcglobal.net

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release Date: 7/4/2007
13:40
 

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release Date: 7/4/2007
13:40

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Jul  5 16:52:49 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:52:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
In-Reply-To: <02a901c7bef4$9bdbf610$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <02a901c7bef4$9bdbf610$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <003f01c7bf57$36579d40$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Keith;

Good advice! Let me add one more, learned from personal experience--

1. When gas welding, don't lean over too close to look at what you're doing
and set your hair on fire. :(

Regards, Neil


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Keith Turk
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:07 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...

Just a couple of quick thoughts while I cool down...

1.   Always take a break when your upset... it seems to make things better.
(
the relative size of the hammer on your return seems to be smaller )

2.   When tig welding aluminum... ( maybe even steel )  it's always better
to
turn the gas prior to the application of the first arc...  other wise you'll
end up with some of that tip in your weld.

3.  irregardless of your current state of tan... ( browning of one's skin )
it's always better to wear a long sleeve shirt.. and maybe even pants...  (
long pants )... oh and socks...with your shoes ( maybe even boots covered by
your pants leg ...hmmm )

4.  When cleaning off a weld that's been contaminated with a piece of tig
rod
tip... ( see #2 above ) and using the tig for heat.... a wire brush that is
used for Aluminum only... try not to brush towards yourself... ( especially
if
you didn't head #3 )  Once you have accomplished this anyway... remember to
set the torch down and turn off the handle ( hand operated heat only, foot
pedals will be clear when you start your exercises )   Jumping up and down
only furthers the burning embers path into your tennis shoe.. thereby
burning
the tender part of your foot.. ya know right under the arch thing... ( the
un-used portion of your foot anyway )...

5 Last but not least.. always secure large items to your bench...  if you
simply start your exercises in mid yelling... and pitch the torch ... often
times it could become involved with the grounding cable... which might bring
the whole mess to the floor... ( which might not be a bad thing in that the
hammer is much more effective when used against a solid surface )

Damn I love racing at Bonneville...

Keith

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul  5 17:48:49 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:48:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] A Quesstion on Power identification...
Message-ID: <468D8361.8050809@mayfco.com>

Well, I have been surfing around some looking at cars. I see some 
engines rated in HP, some in KW, and lately some is PS. Now what the 
heck is that?

ala   103ps


mayf

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Jul  5 17:55:34 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:55:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] A Quesstion on Power identification...
In-Reply-To: <468D8361.8050809@mayfco.com>
References: <468D8361.8050809@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <005001c7bf5f$fa9b2b60$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Ps = Pferd Stark = horse power (German)

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:49 PM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] A Quesstion on Power identification...

Well, I have been surfing around some looking at cars. I see some 
engines rated in HP, some in KW, and lately some is PS. Now what the 
heck is that?

ala   103ps


mayf
_______________________________________________

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul  5 18:00:31 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:00:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] A Quesstion on Power identification...
In-Reply-To: <005001c7bf5f$fa9b2b60$0200a8c0@DBTech>
References: <468D8361.8050809@mayfco.com>
	<005001c7bf5f$fa9b2b60$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <468D861F.7000905@mayfco.com>

thankee, sir! SAE or DIN or some special breed of super german hp?

mayf
neil at dbelltech.com wrote:

>Ps = Pferd Stark = horse power (German)
>
>Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
>Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:49 PM
>To: LSR
>Subject: [Land-speed] A Quesstion on Power identification...
>
>Well, I have been surfing around some looking at cars. I see some 
>engines rated in HP, some in KW, and lately some is PS. Now what the 
>heck is that?
>
>ala   103ps
>
>
>mayf
>_______________________________________________

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul  5 18:06:11 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:06:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Misc. BS
In-Reply-To: <W50081122857421183661417@webmail30>
References: <W50081122857421183661417@webmail30>
Message-ID: <468D8773.40107@mayfco.com>

yeah, Maxton is a neat place. Did you drive it? 2 doglegs. And the boys 
and girls do a heck of a job putting on the show.  I may come down to 
see you. I need to cool off. Hopefully by Friday evening early, the 
temps will head downward toward normal, what ever that is.

Hello to Mz Linda from the Pahrump crowd...

mayf
ed at vetteracing.com wrote:

>Well, after almost a month on the road, seeing the Southern portion ofthe US
>through a Corvette windshield, I've finally made it home....Just in time for
>116 degree heat.. One of the highlites of he trip hadto be a week-end at
>Maxton. What a gem they have tucked away in thewoods there! Special thanks to
>the Turks & Timneys for the VIPtreatment. Sooo., it's back to my non-air
>conditioned shop towork on the car some more. At last the weatherman is
>calling forthe temperature to plunge to 110 by this week-end............
>
>
>Ed Van Scoy
>#128 B/GT Corvette
>SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinder

From smsandimas at earthlink.net  Thu Jul  5 18:14:19 2007
From: smsandimas at earthlink.net (Steve Meierdiercks)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 19:14:19 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <380-2200775601419359@earthlink.net>

  List,
        Getting my car ready for Bonneville,would like to know what is
commonly used for toe-in? 1/16 per side?Any thoughts or recommendations.

   THANKS STEV

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Jul  5 18:16:12 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:16:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
In-Reply-To: <003f01c7bf57$36579d40$0200a8c0@DBTech>
References: <02a901c7bef4$9bdbf610$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<003f01c7bf57$36579d40$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <468D89CC.8060509@charter.net>

neil at dbelltech.com wrote:

>Keith;
>
>Good advice! Let me add one more, learned from personal experience--
>
>1. When gas welding, don't lean over too close to look at what you're doing
>and set your hair on fire. :(
>
>Regards, Neil
>
>Yes, Neil I agree. The only thing worse than the ugly bad smell of hair and flesh burning, is when you are the only one in the shop and know who it is that is burning. The one I really hate is when you have your head sideways and a hot spark goes into your ear. You can hear that sucker sizzling all the way down. On the serious side some of my welding burns on my arms have had to be removed because they became malignant.    
>  
>
Doug Odom in big ditch

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Jul  5 18:31:13 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:31:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Motorsport.com: News channel going after bonneville
 motorcyle record
Message-ID: <003901c7bf64$f5e4dd00$3c01000a@Dale>

http://www.motorsport.com:80/news/article.asp?ID=259912&FS

dale ssuunnyy and 105+ in Caldwell, id

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Jul  5 21:18:30 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:18:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
In-Reply-To: <468D89CC.8060509@charter.net>
References: <02a901c7bef4$9bdbf610$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<003f01c7bf57$36579d40$0200a8c0@DBTech> <468D89CC.8060509@charter.net>
Message-ID: <006d01c7bf7c$53f714a0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Doug;

In my ear??? Good grief I don't need to lose any more of my hearing. Between
open headers and gunfire, it isn't what it used to be.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: DougOdom [mailto:dlodom at charter.net] 
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:16 PM
To: neil at dbelltech.com
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...

neil at dbelltech.com wrote:

>Keith;
>
>Good advice! Let me add one more, learned from personal experience--
>
>1. When gas welding, don't lean over too close to look at what you're doing
>and set your hair on fire. :(
>
>Regards, Neil
>
>Yes, Neil I agree. The only thing worse than the ugly bad smell of hair and
flesh burning, is when you are the only one in the shop and know who it is
that is burning. The one I really hate is when you have your head sideways
and a hot spark goes into your ear. You can hear that sucker sizzling all
the way down. On the serious side some of my welding burns on my arms have
had to be removed because they became malignant.    
>  
>
Doug Odom in big ditch

From neil at dbelltech.com  Thu Jul  5 21:20:31 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:20:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] A Quesstion on Power identification...
In-Reply-To: <468D861F.7000905@mayfco.com>
References: <468D8361.8050809@mayfco.com>
	<005001c7bf5f$fa9b2b60$0200a8c0@DBTech> <468D861F.7000905@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <006e01c7bf7c$9bdf6fb0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Mayf;

I think Pork Pie needs to answer that one.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:01 PM
To: neil at dbelltech.com
Cc: 'LSR'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] A Quesstion on Power identification...

thankee, sir! SAE or DIN or some special breed of super german hp?

mayf
neil at dbelltech.com wrote:

>Ps = Pferd Stark = horse power (German)
>
>Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
>Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:49 PM
>To: LSR
>Subject: [Land-speed] A Quesstion on Power identification...
>
>Well, I have been surfing around some looking at cars. I see some 
>engines rated in HP, some in KW, and lately some is PS. Now what the 
>heck is that?
>
>ala   103ps
>
>
>mayf

From kturk at ala.net  Fri Jul  6 04:52:56 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 05:52:56 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
References: <02a901c7bef4$9bdbf610$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p><003f01c7bf57$36579d40$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<468D89CC.8060509@charter.net> <006d01c7bf7c$53f714a0$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <039201c7bfbb$d06184f0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Wow Doug... you mostly have to be overhead welding to get one in your ear... 
Seems to me like the last time that happened was almost 30 yrs ago... and I 
was gas welding the sills on my Healey.....

We have way better ways to mess yourself up today.... technology can blind 
you MUCH better these days...  Think of a plasma arch in your ear... ( 
course I'm thinking NOOOO )

K 

From kturk at ala.net  Fri Jul  6 05:02:28 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 06:02:28 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
References: <380-2200775601419359@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <039d01c7bfbd$249ad700$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

I've always stated that as a total of 1/8th" toe in...   check this thought 
out... ( thanks to Dahlgren )

Take a jack stand at each outside corner of the car... tie a string to to 
the back... and then set it so the string is laying on the back tire about 
mid height...   now tie the other end to the front jack stand ( same side .. 
Geez)...  and pull the string tight... with it touching the back of the rear 
tire start to bring the jack stand closer to the front tire... once it just 
touches the front of the back tire it's straight with the tire... Set it 
down.... do the same thing on the other side....

normally your front track is slightly less then your rear... so if you take 
one front tire and measure it exactly even... the other wheel should 
indicate the exact toe in.

Man if you followed that you could be a hero...

Keith 

From mactem at mebtel.net  Fri Jul  6 05:14:54 2007
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 07:14:54 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
Message-ID: <000301c7bfbe$e1a24cb0$0200a8c0@brightstar>

Once I was stick welding in jeans that had frayed cuffs.  I felt my leg
getting warm and looked down and my pants were on fire! I did some
exercises and then stuck my foot in a 5 gallon pail of water I kept
nearby.  Never welded while in frayed pants again.
David

From saltracer at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  6 05:49:31 2007
From: saltracer at hotmail.com (Phillip Landry)
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 06:49:31 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
Message-ID: <BAY103-F23E1DD9948E37D1D79998FA2010@phx.gbl>

The frayed blue jeans I was welding with was in the crutch area....got 
pretty exciting for a little while. Phil

>From: "Mobley-Anderson" <mactem at mebtel.net>
>To: "'LSR'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
>Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 07:14:54 -0400
>
>Once I was stick welding in jeans that had frayed cuffs.  I felt my leg
>getting warm and looked down and my pants were on fire! I did some
>exercises and then stuck my foot in a 5 gallon pail of water I kept
>nearby.  Never welded while in frayed pants again.
>David

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Fri Jul  6 12:58:42 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:58:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tig welding thoughts...
In-Reply-To: <02fc01c7bf17$cb764fb0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <be1.173be896.33be51a1@aol.com> <001101c7bf0f$5cc382c0$6501a8c0@S>
	<02fc01c7bf17$cb764fb0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <8AE9142FBBE54C3A97674123601EB1F3@LMS>

KT just how I felt about the rectangular dry sump tank  I built to fit the 
space---so far so god not indication of foaming and not "weeps" from my MIG 
welding---havent tried tig yet---that is coming!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; <Want1937hd at aol.com>; 
<land-speed at autox.team.net> 

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Jul  6 13:51:44 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:51:44 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Volunteers needed...
Message-ID: <070620071951.13558.468E9D500009A336000034F62200734076CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
To: "Win Phelps" <win359 at yahoo.com>, "W S Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Patrick Thomas" <patrick.thomas at wsapr.com>, "Emily Piper" <emilyjpiper at yahoo.com>, "Dave Pinkney" <pinkelko at yahoo.com>, "'Barrie Strachan'" <dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Dale Emery'" <dbemery at comcast.net>, "'Robert Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com>, <calvinpetersen at comcast.net>, "'Patrice Mckean'" <patricemck at msn.com>
Subject: Volunteers needed...
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 16:36:34 +0000
>  
> Volunteers needed...
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> <http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2007-07-06_D8Q72M3G0&show_article=1
> &cat=breaking>
> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2007-07-06_D8Q72M3G0&show_article=1&
> cat=breaking
From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
To: "Win Phelps" <win359 at yahoo.com>, "W S Potter"
  <wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Patrick Thomas" <patrick.thomas at wsapr.com>,
  "Emily Piper" <emilyjpiper at yahoo.com>, "Dave Pinkney"
  <pinkelko at yahoo.com>, "'Barrie Strachan'" <dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Dale
  Emery'" <dbemery at comcast.net>, "'Robert Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com>,
  <calvinpetersen at comcast.net>, "'Patrice Mckean'" <patricemck at msn.com>
Subject: Volunteers needed...
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 16:36:34 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from Multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/html

   Volunteers needed...

   http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2007-07-06_D8Q72M3G0&s
   how_article=1&cat=breaking

From v4gr at rcn.com  Fri Jul  6 15:53:32 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:53:32 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No LSR---Frank Fiore
Message-ID: <001e01c7c018$18e35c10$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

Today I read in the paper that Frank Fiore had died. I doubt any one here
knows who he was, but when I went to work at the airline in '65 he was pointed
out to me right away. Frank was a lead mechanic at the Line Matinance Facility
at SFO. And Frank had driven at Indy. For years after I went to work there
Frank continued to own and run an Indy car at the Indy 500. The really big
time. My shop steward had a 270 Offy powered sprinter he maintained for one of
the foreman. But Frank was part of the 500. I don't think just regular guys
still run in the 500. He was a hero to alot of us.  RF

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Fri Jul  6 16:08:44 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:08:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No LSR---Frank Fiore
In-Reply-To: <001e01c7c018$18e35c10$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
References: <001e01c7c018$18e35c10$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <15616B79E1874C69938A7E863A638463@LMS>

Rich---what a great connection---that is a "real race story"  I believe that 
is why it all seems so distached these days---we dont get to see real guys 
run much anymore at any thing but LSR
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Fox" <v4gr at rcn.com>
To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 2:53 PM 

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Fri Jul  6 16:27:59 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:27:59 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Volunteers needed...
In-Reply-To: <070620071951.13558.468E9D500009A336000034F62200734076CACCC
	7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
References: <070620071951.13558.468E9D500009A336000034F62200734076CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20070706222818.7FFF91879BD@autox.team.net>

Let us know the results Wes.....
Skip



At 12:51 PM 7/6/2007, wester6935 at comcast.net wrote:
>-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
>From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
>To: "Win Phelps" <win359 at yahoo.com>, "W S Potter" 
><wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Patrick Thomas" 
><patrick.thomas at wsapr.com>, "Emily Piper" <emilyjpiper at yahoo.com>, 
>"Dave Pinkney" <pinkelko at yahoo.com>, "'Barrie Strachan'" 
><dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Dale Emery'" <dbemery at comcast.net>, "'Robert 
>Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com>, <calvinpetersen at comcast.net>, "'Patrice 
>Mckean'" <patricemck at msn.com>
>Subject: Volunteers needed...
>Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 16:36:34 +0000
> >
> > Volunteers needed...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> <http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2007-07-06_D8Q72M3G0&show_article=1> 
> &cat=breaking>
> > 
> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2007-07-06_D8Q72M3G0&show_article=1&
> > cat=breaking
>From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
>To: "Win Phelps" <win359 at yahoo.com>, "W S Potter"
>   <wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Patrick Thomas" <patrick.thomas at wsapr.com>,
>   "Emily Piper" <emilyjpiper at yahoo.com>, "Dave Pinkney"
>   <pinkelko at yahoo.com>, "'Barrie Strachan'" <dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Dale
>   Emery'" <dbemery at comcast.net>, "'Robert Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com>,
>   <calvinpetersen at comcast.net>, "'Patrice Mckean'" <patricemck at msn.com>
>Subject: Volunteers needed...
>Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 16:36:34 +0000
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from Multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
>X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/html
>
>    Volunteers needed...
>
>    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2007-07-06_D8Q72M3G0&s
>    how_article=1&cat=breaking
>_______________________________________________
>saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Fri Jul  6 16:29:18 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:29:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Volunteers needed...
Message-ID: <20070706222938.3862E1879C0@autox.team.net>

Let us know the results Wes.....
Skip



At 12:51 PM 7/6/2007, wester6935 at comcast.net wrote:
>-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
>From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
>To: "Win Phelps" <win359 at yahoo.com>, "W S Potter" 
><wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Patrick Thomas" 
><patrick.thomas at wsapr.com>, "Emily Piper" <emilyjpiper at yahoo.com>, 
>"Dave Pinkney" <pinkelko at yahoo.com>, "'Barrie Strachan'" 
><dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Dale Emery'" <dbemery at comcast.net>, "'Robert 
>Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com>, <calvinpetersen at comcast.net>, "'Patrice 
>Mckean'" <patricemck at msn.com>
>Subject: Volunteers needed...
>Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 16:36:34 +0000
> >
> > Volunteers needed...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> <http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2007-07-06_D8Q72M3G0&show_article=1> 
> &cat=breaking>
> > 
> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2007-07-06_D8Q72M3G0&show_article=1&

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  6 21:20:34 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 03:20:34 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] No LSR---Frank Fiore
In-Reply-To: <001e01c7c018$18e35c10$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F35FAA9CADCAA5D1EB75A8BD9000@phx.gbl>

Hi Rich,   wondering here... I know a Joe Fiore back east here...



Big-time into restoring 'vintage' open wheel race cars...  and darn good at 
it too.

  Let me sit in one of the old Parnelli Jones Silver Crown cars (circa 
1962-64)
    he had just finished restoring once upon a time at Lime Rock Park
       when I screwd up enough 'courage' to ask if I could.

     and I've got picture proof.  ;- )      Nice guy, that Joe.

  - his sister 'was' / is  scorer for the URC.   Can this be the same family 
?

     I'd be willing to bet it is...    Joe must be 65-67 now   sister prolly 
younger...


     It seems ever'day we lose more of'em...


      regards ,  Dirt Track Doug






From: "Rich Fox" <v4gr at rcn.com>
Reply-To: Rich Fox <v4gr at rcn.com>
To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] No LSR---Frank Fiore
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:53:32 -0700

Today I read in the paper that Frank Fiore had died. I doubt any one here
knows who he was, but when I went to work at the airline in '65 he was 
pointed
out to me right away. Frank was a lead mechanic at the Line Maintenance 
Facility
at SFO. And Frank had driven at Indy. For years after I went to work there
Frank continued to own and run an Indy car at the Indy 500. The really big
time. My shop steward had a 270 Offy powered sprinter he maintained for one 
of
the foreman. But Frank was part of the 500. I don't think just regular guys
still run in the 500.

He was a hero to a lot of us.  RF

_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Jul  5 18:27:18 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:27:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Motorsport.com: News channel going after bonneville
	record
Message-ID: <001101c7bf64$9a917fd0$3c01000a@Dale>

http://www.motorsport.com:80/news/article.asp?ID=259912&FS=

going after motorcycle record in 2008
dale
ssuunnyy and 105+ in Caldwell,id

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Jul  7 04:07:40 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 06:07:40 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <039d01c7bfbd$249ad700$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <003001c7c07e$a85ba8a0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Be careful putting one tire straight if your front suspention has
ackerman in the steering. ( the inside front wheel turns more than the
outside front wheel in a corner. Then it is much safer to set the wheels
so the gap measurement is the same or close to it on both sudes to get a
more accurate measurment. Normally you would not need any ackerman in a
race car for LSR as there is no intentional cornering at anything over 5
or 10 mph..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Keith Turk
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:02 AM
To: smsandimas at earthlink.net; landspeed list
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] TOE IN


I've always stated that as a total of 1/8th" toe in...   check this
thought
out... ( thanks to Dahlgren )


normally your front track is slightly less then your rear... so if you
take
one front tire and measure it exactly even... the other wheel should
indicate the exact toe in.

Keith

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release Date: 7/2/2007
3:35 PM

From dlodom at charter.net  Sat Jul  7 09:19:38 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 08:19:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Non LSR Barnfind
Message-ID: <468FAF0A.1030101@charter.net>

Then again there could be a LSR car or two in here.


>Subject:  Barnfind
>Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:39:19 -0700
>
>
>
>
>>Eat your heart out...
>>
>>Imagine you find an old barn . . .
>>http://www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm
>>
Doug Odom in big ditch

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  7 09:46:52 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 08:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <003001c7c07e$a85ba8a0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <225667.74701.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I've been involved with a couple of streamliners where the front wheels are in the inline configuration. Rich Manchen will build in the Ackerman. The short tread dimension will cause the outside front wheel to lift without it.
   
  DW

ddahlgren at snet.net wrote:
  Be careful putting one tire straight if your front suspention has
ackerman in the steering. ( the inside front wheel turns more than the
outside front wheel in a corner. Then it is much safer to set the wheels
so the gap measurement is the same or close to it on both sudes to get a
more accurate measurment. Normally you would not need any ackerman in a
race car for LSR as there is no intentional cornering at anything over 5
or 10 mph..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Keith Turk
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:02 AM
To: smsandimas at earthlink.net; landspeed list
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] TOE IN


I've always stated that as a total of 1/8th" toe in... check this
thought
out... ( thanks to Dahlgren )


normally your front track is slightly less then your rear... so if you
take
one front tire and measure it exactly even... the other wheel should
indicate the exact toe in.

Keith

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release Date: 7/2/2007
3:35 PM
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  7 10:00:15 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 09:00:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Frank Fiore
Message-ID: <361892.35100.qm@web52508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Rich,
   
  I did a quick Goggle search, Frank Fiore +Indy 500, and found a couple mentions for Frank. It takes a little searching, ain't the internet grand?
   
  DW


Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links. 

From Askotto at aol.com  Sat Jul  7 10:42:20 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 12:42:20 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <d46.d778091.33c11c6c@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/6/2007 5:02:16 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
kturk at ala.net writes:

I've  always stated that as a total of 1/8th" toe in...   check this  thought 
out... ( thanks to Dahlgren )

Take a jack stand at each  outside corner of the car... tie a string to to 
the back... and then set  it so the string is laying on the back tire about 
mid  height...   now tie the other end to the front jack stand ( same  side 
.. 
Geez)...  and pull the string tight... with it touching the  back of the rear 
tire start to bring the jack stand closer to the front  tire... once it just 
touches the front of the back tire it's straight with  the tire... Set it 
down.... do the same thing on the other  side....

normally your front track is slightly less then your rear...  so if you take 
one front tire and measure it exactly even... the other  wheel should 
indicate the exact toe in.
 
How does this technique compensate for tire irregularities and mounting on  
the rim? Using the sides of the tires to set toe in sounds very inaccurate  and 
I have never heard of using this technique, which means nothing.
 
If the tracks/tire widths aren't the same how can stringing the front and  
rear tires work to come up with toe in? What am I missing?
 
I and many other racers jack up the front tires, spin each tire and  scribe a 
straight and true line in roughly the middle of each tread. Holding a  flat 
screw driver on edge while held securely against the spinning tire will  work 
as a scribe. Set the car back on the wheels, jump up and down on it, roll  it 
back and forth to get the suspension and steering to "stabilize" and simply  
measure the distance between the front and rear of the tire scribe lines. That's 
 your true toe in regardless of tire/rim irregularities which Dahlgrens 
method  doesn't address. As usual he has a complicated method to perform a very 
easy  task and his method isn't accurate to boot.
 
Otto
Back in form
 









************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From Askotto at aol.com  Sat Jul  7 10:50:25 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 12:50:25 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <d28.10534c44.33c11e51@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/7/2007 4:08:42 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
ddahlgren at snet.net writes:

Be  careful putting one tire straight if your front suspention has
ackerman in  the steering. ( the inside front wheel turns more than the
outside front  wheel in a corner. 
Just curious Dave, how does a person set one tire straight and the other  one 
"toed in"? As soon as the car moves forward the tires will stabilize to  
equal toe in on both sides.

Then it  is much safer to set the wheels
so the gap measurement is the same or close  to it on both sudes to get a
more accurate measurment. Normally you would  not need any ackerman in a
race car for LSR as there is no intentional  cornering at anything over 5
or 10 mph..
Why wouldn't anyone want Ackerman in their steering??? Is scrubbing tires  in 
turns becoming vogue?
 
Otto






************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Jul  7 12:48:52 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 14:48:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <001601c7c0c7$76fc4e60$563c2544@john>

> Be careful putting one tire straight if your front suspention has
> ackerman in the steering. ( the inside front wheel turns more than the
> outside front wheel in a corner.

With Keith's method of setting the toe in the ackerman causes an error of 
about .0004" .
John

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Jul  7 13:39:27 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 12:39:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis Question
	or 2..
Message-ID: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>

Too hot to work out in the shop  much today so I figured I would sit 
around and scratch my brain a bit.. Been thinking about green house 
gases and how they work. Co2 and methane, I think (dangerous) heat the 
earth by reflecting infrared heat back downward. Ie they trap the heat 
in the atmosphere. Now here is my question...if they reflect the heat 
back inward wouldn't they also reflect the heat from the sun in those 
wave lengths back into space? Seems that would be a net zero gain. Any 
atmosphericic chemists or other smart people out there that can explain 
it to me?

Next, how the heck do I figure out how much hydrogen and oxygen are 
produced for given voltage, current and electrode sizes?  I know that 
electrolysis works at a minimum of 1.2 volts and just milliamps, but 
what if the volts was say 12 volts or 24 volts or 40 volts and 20 amps? 
If the electrode is too large will it be effective as a gas producer 
because the current density is lower?

mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...

From jon at infodestruction.com  Sat Jul  7 13:48:35 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 15:48:35 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
In-Reply-To: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
References: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <C93BE3D9-9504-42D2-8C4C-8ED559C75EC5@infodestruction.com>

On Jul 7, 2007, at 3:39 PM, drmayf wrote:



mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...



Mayf, if you think it's hot there -- you oughta be here for a  
relatively hotter experience.  It's 88F right now, down from the 90  
we had earlier.

So what?  Well, for us 88 is darned near the breaking point.  We  
don't get temps this high very often.  When I built my business  
building ten or so years ago -- and had the offices equipped with  
central a/c -- many locals asked me why I was bothering to go to the  
expense of putting in a/c.  I'd tell 'em -- for resale value.  Glad I  
had it installed -- we've used it at least a dozen days already this  
summer.  Oh, for the days of ideal temps -- shorts and t-shirts at a  
sunny 50 degrees -- that's what we really can enjoy up here.

I'm going home to spend some time with the chain saw and trees in the  
ditch along our road.  Swelter on, one and all.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Jul  7 14:52:26 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 13:52:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The world's fastest Hamiltonian - Waikato Times: local,
 national & world news from Waikato's daily newspaper
Message-ID: <000501c7c0d8$b9f182b0$3501000a@Dale>

http://www.stuff.co.nz:80/stuff/waikatotimes/4118912a6004.html

NZ trying for motorcycle record at Bonneville aug 11 2007
dale
see you there

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sat Jul  7 15:28:54 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 17:28:54 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Questionor 2..
References: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <000301c7c0dd$dccdaac0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

mayf;

A long time ago I invented an electrolytic ramjet for undersea 
propulsion---once in motion the H2 and O2 gases produced by the electrolysis 
reduced the overall density and increased the velocity of the combined water 
and gas exiting the duct thereby providing a net thrust. It was a whimsical 
fallout of another project but I did get a patent award.

The device had obvious limitations (the performance fell off with increasing 
depth and the formation and collapse of bubbles is "noisy"--a disadvantage 
for military applications).

My calculations and design documentation are buried too deep in my archives 
for a quick look, but I can say that the voltage is a function of the 
electrolysis cell size, design configuration, and the electrical 
conductivity of the water, but that gas production is directly proportional 
to the total current flow passing through the water.
Lots of interesting design trade-offs. Once you exceed the minimum 1.2 
volts, the actual design voltage will be much higher and depends on how much 
current you want to push through a given volume of water of a given 
conductivity ( salty sea water has an electrical conductivity of about 7 
mho/meter--much less than copper, and distilled water is much lower still).

As for your question about greenhouse gases reflecting heat back towards the 
earth---I think the incoming radiation from the sun has a different wave 
length than the radiation reflected back upwards. So the green house gases 
are transparent to the sun's incoming radiation but opaque to the radiation 
reflected back upwards so it gets trapped---I'd check with Fred Singer's 
global warming web site to be sure.

Lance


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 3:39 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis Questionor 
2..


> Too hot to work out in the shop  much today so I figured I would sit
> around and scratch my brain a bit.. Been thinking about green house
> gases and how they work. Co2 and methane, I think (dangerous) heat the
> earth by reflecting infrared heat back downward. Ie they trap the heat
> in the atmosphere. Now here is my question...if they reflect the heat
> back inward wouldn't they also reflect the heat from the sun in those
> wave lengths back into space? Seems that would be a net zero gain. Any
> atmosphericic chemists or other smart people out there that can explain
> it to me?
>
> Next, how the heck do I figure out how much hydrogen and oxygen are
> produced for given voltage, current and electrode sizes?  I know that
> electrolysis works at a minimum of 1.2 volts and just milliamps, but
> what if the volts was say 12 volts or 24 volts or 40 volts and 20 amps?
> If the electrode is too large will it be effective as a gas producer
> because the current density is lower?
>
> mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Jul  7 16:06:54 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 16:06:54 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
References: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
	<C93BE3D9-9504-42D2-8C4C-8ED559C75EC5@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <00d101c7c0e3$214fde20$6401a8c0@Glens>

Jon
Oh boo hoo, it's 115 degrees here in St. George Utah. I think I'll go mow 
the lawn. Mayf and a few of us deal with a little heat, gets us ready for 
speed week.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Wennerberg" <jon at infodestruction.com>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis 
Question or 2..


> On Jul 7, 2007, at 3:39 PM, drmayf wrote:
>
>
>
> mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
>
>
>
> Mayf, if you think it's hot there -- you oughta be here for a
> relatively hotter experience.  It's 88F right now, down from the 90
> we had earlier.
>
> So what?  Well, for us 88 is darned near the breaking point.  We
> don't get temps this high very often.  When I built my business
> building ten or so years ago -- and had the offices equipped with
> central a/c -- many locals asked me why I was bothering to go to the
> expense of putting in a/c.  I'd tell 'em -- for resale value.  Glad I
> had it installed -- we've used it at least a dozen days already this
> summer.  Oh, for the days of ideal temps -- shorts and t-shirts at a
> sunny 50 degrees -- that's what we really can enjoy up here.
>
> I'm going home to spend some time with the chain saw and trees in the
> ditch along our road.  Swelter on, one and all.
>
>                 Jon Wennerberg
> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>              Marquette, Michigan
>              (that's 'way up north)
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Jul  7 18:02:49 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 17:02:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
In-Reply-To: <00d101c7c0e3$214fde20$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
	<C93BE3D9-9504-42D2-8C4C-8ED559C75EC5@infodestruction.com>
	<00d101c7c0e3$214fde20$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <469029A9.5020409@mayfco.com>

yeah, what he said! Nice to go to the salt and cool down. I may wear my 
/20 fire suit pants all the time just to stay warm.  Oh, by the way as I 
cruised by the airport in Las Vegas yesterday, it was 118!

mayf
Glen Barrett wrote:

> Jon
> Oh boo hoo, it's 115 degrees here in St. George Utah. I think I'll go 
> mow the lawn. Mayf and a few of us deal with a little heat, gets us 
> ready for speed week.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" 
> <jon at infodestruction.com>
> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 1:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis 
> Question or 2..
>
>
>> On Jul 7, 2007, at 3:39 PM, drmayf wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
>>
>>
>>
>> Mayf, if you think it's hot there -- you oughta be here for a
>> relatively hotter experience.  It's 88F right now, down from the 90
>> we had earlier.
>>
>> So what?  Well, for us 88 is darned near the breaking point.  We
>> don't get temps this high very often.  When I built my business
>> building ten or so years ago -- and had the offices equipped with
>> central a/c -- many locals asked me why I was bothering to go to the
>> expense of putting in a/c.  I'd tell 'em -- for resale value.  Glad I
>> had it installed -- we've used it at least a dozen days already this
>> summer.  Oh, for the days of ideal temps -- shorts and t-shirts at a
>> sunny 50 degrees -- that's what we really can enjoy up here.
>>
>> I'm going home to spend some time with the chain saw and trees in the
>> ditch along our road.  Swelter on, one and all.
>>
>>                 Jon Wennerberg
>> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>>              Marquette, Michigan
>>              (that's 'way up north)

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Jul  7 18:31:56 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 18:31:56 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
References: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
	<C93BE3D9-9504-42D2-8C4C-8ED559C75EC5@infodestruction.com>
	<00d101c7c0e3$214fde20$6401a8c0@Glens> <469029A9.5020409@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <012601c7c0f7$645e5f70$6401a8c0@Glens>

 I will be at the airport on Tuesday morn. It's about the same here, How 
about the people in Baker where it was 125 degs.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "Jon Wennerberg" <jon at infodestruction.com>; "LSR" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis 
Question or 2..


> yeah, what he said! Nice to go to the salt and cool down. I may wear my 
> /20 fire suit pants all the time just to stay warm.  Oh, by the way as I 
> cruised by the airport in Las Vegas yesterday, it was 118!
>
> mayf
> Glen Barrett wrote:
>
>> Jon
>> Oh boo hoo, it's 115 degrees here in St. George Utah. I think I'll go mow 
>> the lawn. Mayf and a few of us deal with a little heat, gets us ready for 
>> speed week.
>> Glen
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" 
>> <jon at infodestruction.com>
>> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>> Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 1:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis 
>> Question or 2..
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 7, 2007, at 3:39 PM, drmayf wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mayf, if you think it's hot there -- you oughta be here for a
>>> relatively hotter experience.  It's 88F right now, down from the 90
>>> we had earlier.
>>>
>>> So what?  Well, for us 88 is darned near the breaking point.  We
>>> don't get temps this high very often.  When I built my business
>>> building ten or so years ago -- and had the offices equipped with
>>> central a/c -- many locals asked me why I was bothering to go to the
>>> expense of putting in a/c.  I'd tell 'em -- for resale value.  Glad I
>>> had it installed -- we've used it at least a dozen days already this
>>> summer.  Oh, for the days of ideal temps -- shorts and t-shirts at a
>>> sunny 50 degrees -- that's what we really can enjoy up here.
>>>
>>> I'm going home to spend some time with the chain saw and trees in the
>>> ditch along our road.  Swelter on, one and all.
>>>
>>>                 Jon Wennerberg
>>> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>>>              Marquette, Michigan
>>>              (that's 'way up north)

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Jul  7 19:21:04 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:21:04 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
Message-ID: <070820070121.26154.46903C00000DED470000662A2200750744CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

103 and breezy at the Salt Lake fity Jazz Festival yesterday afternoon 
at 5:00.  The music was even hotter.  10 % humidity makes it bearable.

Glenn, you missed the chance to brag that it was 118 degrees just 
south of St George this week.  Of course mayf would just give you
the readings in Pahrump and leave us all gasping.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Jon
> Oh boo hoo, it's 115 degrees here in St. George Utah. I think I'll go mow 
> the lawn. Mayf and a few of us deal with a little heat, gets us ready for 
> speed week.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jon Wennerberg" <jon at infodestruction.com>
> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 1:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis 
> Question or 2..
> 
> 
> > On Jul 7, 2007, at 3:39 PM, drmayf wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
> >
> >
> >
> > Mayf, if you think it's hot there -- you oughta be here for a
> > relatively hotter experience.  It's 88F right now, down from the 90
> > we had earlier.
> >
> > So what?  Well, for us 88 is darned near the breaking point.  We
> > don't get temps this high very often.  When I built my business
> > building ten or so years ago -- and had the offices equipped with
> > central a/c -- many locals asked me why I was bothering to go to the
> > expense of putting in a/c.  I'd tell 'em -- for resale value.  Glad I
> > had it installed -- we've used it at least a dozen days already this
> > summer.  Oh, for the days of ideal temps -- shorts and t-shirts at a
> > sunny 50 degrees -- that's what we really can enjoy up here.
> >
> > I'm going home to spend some time with the chain saw and trees in the
> > ditch along our road.  Swelter on, one and all.
> >
> >                 Jon Wennerberg
> > Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
> >              Marquette, Michigan
> >              (that's 'way up north)
> > _______________________________________________
> > speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Sat Jul  7 19:35:42 2007
From: bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:35:42 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Toe In
Message-ID: <070820070135.12897.46903F6E000458A90000326122007503309C0B019D9B0108970D0D010D@comcast.net>

Ditto on Otto. Trammel points on a stick of sufficient length work well.
The track of my roadster is wider in the front than rear. My roundy pal told me to swing big arcs beneath each king pin such that there are two distant intersections. A line connecting them should be the centerline of the car, fix it if it isn't. A perpendicular line to the centerline can be layed out with a sheetrock square, adjust the rear to the perpendicular line. Makes sense to me. BJ

From drylakercr at comcast.net  Sat Jul  7 21:14:46 2007
From: drylakercr at comcast.net (drylakercr)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 20:14:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Looking for a Fellow Sidewinder Member
Message-ID: <C2B5A4B6.1549%drylakercr@comcast.net>

Hello all!

Life has been crazy for me since my mom & sister's passing in January. The
biggest pieces of wisdom I have learned in the passed six months are:

1. Cherish every moment you have with your loved ones.
2. Set up a Living Trust. Probate is awfully expensive, time consuming and
tedious.

Now to what I've come looking for...I signed up some time ago for my lakes
meet duty with my club, the Sidewinders. However, now I can't remember what
month it was for and I've also misplaced my club schedule! Really, I am
usually not this disorganized!

So, if any one of you are a Sidewinder and you have the schedule, could you
look at it for me? I think I signed up for setting up balloons in the fall.

Thanks and take care!
Katie Young Cortez
#256 XXO/VGC record holder

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Jul  7 21:18:23 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 23:18:23 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <000e01c7c10e$a4901f40$563c2544@john>

List

What is static toe in for ? Is it so that dynamic toe in is zero or is it
because cars handle better with a little dynamic toe in ? If the scrub radius
is small , compliance shouldn't change the toe in very much . Do IRS land
speed cars handle better with rear toe in ?

John

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  7 22:20:06 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
In-Reply-To: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20070708042006.81790.qmail@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Not only that, how many carbon credits are being used by all the people going to, performning at, etc. Al 'I invented the internet' Gore's concert today?
   
  Plus - how hopped up was his dope smoking kid's Prius that ran 100 mph in Orange County this week?
   
  DW

drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
  Too hot to work out in the shop much today so I figured I would sit 
around and scratch my brain a bit.. Been thinking about green house 
gases and how they work. Co2 and methane, I think (dangerous) heat the 
earth by reflecting infrared heat back downward. Ie they trap the heat 
in the atmosphere. Now here is my question...if they reflect the heat 
back inward wouldn't they also reflect the heat from the sun in those 
wave lengths back into space? Seems that would be a net zero gain. Any 
atmosphericic chemists or other smart people out there that can explain 
it to me?

Next, how the heck do I figure out how much hydrogen and oxygen are 
produced for given voltage, current and electrode sizes? I know that 
electrolysis works at a minimum of 1.2 volts and just milliamps, but 
what if the volts was say 12 volts or 24 volts or 40 volts and 20 amps? 
If the electrode is too large will it be effective as a gas producer 
because the current density is lower?

mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. 

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Jul  7 22:28:20 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:28:20 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <001601c7c0c7$76fc4e60$563c2544@john>
Message-ID: <001a01c7c118$6b5d4900$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

You must be either a savant or pure genius to know the amount of
Ackerman built in from an e-mail and no print especially like the
ability to measure in tenths of a thou with a Stanley tape measure LOL..
D

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Burk
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 2:49 PM
To: LandSpeed List
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] TOE IN


> Be careful putting one tire straight if your front suspention has
> ackerman in the steering. ( the inside front wheel turns more than the

> outside front wheel in a corner.

With Keith's method of setting the toe in the ackerman causes an error
of
about .0004" .
John


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release Date: 7/2/2007
3:35 PM

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  7 22:34:00 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:34:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <001a01c7c118$6b5d4900$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <169090.14723.qm@web52508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

You are up way too late tonight Dave.
   
  DW

ddahlgren at snet.net wrote:
  You must be either a savant or pure genius to know the amount of
Ackerman built in from an e-mail and no print especially like the
ability to measure in tenths of a thou with a Stanley tape measure LOL..
D

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Burk
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 2:49 PM
To: LandSpeed List
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] TOE IN


> Be careful putting one tire straight if your front suspention has
> ackerman in the steering. ( the inside front wheel turns more than the

> outside front wheel in a corner.

With Keith's method of setting the toe in the ackerman causes an error
of
about .0004" .
John


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release Date: 7/2/2007
3:35 PM
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. 

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Jul  7 22:47:39 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:47:39 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
In-Reply-To: <20070708042006.81790.qmail@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002501c7c11b$1d7feff0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Global warming works over millenia and we have history fior a couple of
hundred years suggests the data base is a bit shallow..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of dan warner
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 12:20 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
Question or 2..


Not only that, how many carbon credits are being used by all the people
going to, performning at, etc. Al 'I invented the internet' Gore's
concert today?

  Plus - how hopped up was his dope smoking kid's Prius that ran 100 mph
in Orange County this week?

  DW

drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
  Too hot to work out in the shop much today so I figured I would sit
around and scratch my brain a bit.. Been thinking about green house
gases and how they work. Co2 and methane, I think (dangerous) heat the
earth by reflecting infrared heat back downward. Ie they trap the heat
in the atmosphere. Now here is my question...if they reflect the heat
back inward wouldn't they also reflect the heat from the sun in those
wave lengths back into space? Seems that would be a net zero gain. Any
atmosphericic chemists or other smart people out there that can explain
it to me?

Next, how the heck do I figure out how much hydrogen and oxygen are
produced for given voltage, current and electrode sizes? I know that
electrolysis works at a minimum of 1.2 volts and just milliamps, but
what if the volts was say 12 volts or 24 volts or 40 volts and 20 amps?
If the electrode is too large will it be effective as a gas producer
because the current density is lower?

mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release Date: 7/2/2007
3:35 PM

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Jul  7 22:58:21 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:58:21 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <000e01c7c10e$a4901f40$563c2544@john>
Message-ID: <002c01c7c11c$9c378dc0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

If you try some toe out it will all be clear..LOL just be sure to hang
on tight..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Burk
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 11:18 PM
To: LandSpeed List
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] TOE IN


List

What is static toe in for ? Is it so that dynamic toe in is zero or is
it because cars handle better with a little dynamic toe in ? If the
scrub radius is small , compliance shouldn't change the toe in very much
. Do IRS land speed cars handle better with rear toe in ?

John
_______________________________________________

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release Date: 7/2/2007
3:35 PM

From Askotto at aol.com  Sat Jul  7 23:04:20 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:04:20 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <bf0.163170b0.33c1ca54@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/7/2007 12:49:06 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
joyseydevil at comcast.net writes:

With  Keith's method of setting the toe in the ackerman causes an error of 
about  .0004" .
John




Hi John
 
See!, I told you it was inaccurate! LOL
 
I spun two of my Bonneville tires mounted on Taylor high soot steel rims.  
The tires were shaved and high speed balanced by Nate Jones. There was .60  
runout at the side wall of the tire where the string is to be precisely measured  
for toe in. What does this do to your toe measurement?
 
Also and more importantly, the string method measures toe in at the widest  
part of the tire which is the sidewall and isn't where toe in is sup post  to 
be measured. Toe in is the difference of the tread centerline comparing the  
front of the tire with the rear of the tire AT THE TREAD!!! How does one get  
1/8" toe in at the tread when they measure 1/8" at the sidewall??? Obviously one 
 must calculate the difference in diameter at the sidewall and measure a 
lesser  distance than 1/8" to arrive at 1/8" at the tread. I didn't hear the 
formula for  this calculation in the string method of setting toe in. What is it 
Dave?
 
If you are using the sidewall for the precise measurement for toe in, why  
mess with 4 jack stands and string, just measure the difference between the  
front of the tire sidewall and the rear of the tire sidewall???
 
Also what if the rear end isn't perfectly centered in the chassis? What if  
the rear wheels don 't extend exactically the same distance from the centerline 
 of the chassis. What if the front axle isn't exactically centered in the 
frame?  What if your tires have run out at the sidewall due to manufacturing 
variables  of the wheels, tires and how the tires are mounted? What if your string 
is bent?  LOL
 
Knock yourself out with your jackstands and string, I'll stick to scribing  
the centerline of the tires as they roll down the track and simply comparing 
the  front and rear tire distances.
 
Otto



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Jul  7 23:16:21 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:16:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
In-Reply-To: <012601c7c0f7$645e5f70$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
	<C93BE3D9-9504-42D2-8C4C-8ED559C75EC5@infodestruction.com>
	<00d101c7c0e3$214fde20$6401a8c0@Glens> <469029A9.5020409@mayfco.com>
	<012601c7c0f7$645e5f70$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <46907325.8010301@mayfco.com>

It is always hot in Baker... when we took our cars to EM for the 
original prelininary tech inspection a year or two ago, on the way back 
the trucks temp gage for the outside air hit 127. Brutally hot.  
Supposed to cool down a bit next week. 109 or so at the airport.  Don't 
dally when out in the sun..

mayf
Glen Barrett wrote:

> I will be at the airport on Tuesday morn. It's about the same here, 
> How about the people in Baker where it was 125 degs.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Cc: "Jon Wennerberg" <jon at infodestruction.com>; "LSR" 
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis 
> Question or 2..
>
>
>> yeah, what he said! Nice to go to the salt and cool down. I may wear 
>> my /20 fire suit pants all the time just to stay warm.  Oh, by the 
>> way as I cruised by the airport in Las Vegas yesterday, it was 118!
>>
>> mayf
>> Glen Barrett wrote:
>>
>>> Jon
>>> Oh boo hoo, it's 115 degrees here in St. George Utah. I think I'll 
>>> go mow the lawn. Mayf and a few of us deal with a little heat, gets 
>>> us ready for speed week.
>>> Glen
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Wennerberg" 
>>> <jon at infodestruction.com>
>>> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>>> Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 1:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an 
>>> Electrolysis Question or 2..
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jul 7, 2007, at 3:39 PM, drmayf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mayf, if you think it's hot there -- you oughta be here for a
>>>> relatively hotter experience.  It's 88F right now, down from the 90
>>>> we had earlier.
>>>>
>>>> So what?  Well, for us 88 is darned near the breaking point.  We
>>>> don't get temps this high very often.  When I built my business
>>>> building ten or so years ago -- and had the offices equipped with
>>>> central a/c -- many locals asked me why I was bothering to go to the
>>>> expense of putting in a/c.  I'd tell 'em -- for resale value.  Glad I
>>>> had it installed -- we've used it at least a dozen days already this
>>>> summer.  Oh, for the days of ideal temps -- shorts and t-shirts at a
>>>> sunny 50 degrees -- that's what we really can enjoy up here.
>>>>
>>>> I'm going home to spend some time with the chain saw and trees in the
>>>> ditch along our road.  Swelter on, one and all.
>>>>
>>>>                 Jon Wennerberg
>>>> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>>>>              Marquette, Michigan
>>>>              (that's 'way up north)

From Askotto at aol.com  Sat Jul  7 23:24:07 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:24:07 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <c32.13e6edb3.33c1cef7@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/7/2007 10:58:43 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, John  
writes:

What is  static toe in for ? Is it so that dynamic toe in is zero or is
it because  cars handle better with a little dynamic toe in ?


 
Hi John
 
Static toe in is with the car at rest, Dynamic toe in is when the car  is 
moving forward. Although I never hung off the front bumper to measure dynamic  
toe in, I would guess it would be less than 1/8" only because of tire sidewall  
flex and suspension component clearances but far from straight up with no toe  
in.
 
Without some toe in, a car will tend to dart around unpredictably. I used  to 
run toe out in my circle track car just for fun! It made it turn  quicker.
 
I run my IRS with a little static toe in. Not sure if it's correct but it  
made sense for the same reasons the front is toed in. As I recall, C4 vette's  
have some IRS toe in for what that's worth.
 
Odd Toe In



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  8 00:00:53 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 06:00:53 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Green House Gases.. and Internet Al
In-Reply-To: <20070708042006.81790.qmail@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F218C5B6C5C2A3E4E7BD3EBD9070@phx.gbl>

  Touch'e  Dan'l     that's LOTTA  gas.  (both kinds)


  Does anybody other than me remember the time  ol' "internet Al" took
  $200,000.00 from the Chinese Communists in a Buddist temple out thar' in 
Cally ?

  Maybe now "Al" can use some of that dough to buy off some local 
'dignitary's' and judges
  for his miscreant Prius boy.  Yah that'll make it mo' bettah I rekon.   ha 
   ha  ha


        of course,... " your mileage may vary "

    cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  ------------------------------------- oooo 
--------------------------------------

Wise words from the ancients  especially in light of today's 'troubles' :

VULGAS VULT DECEPI    [ the (common) people wish to be deceived ]

      -Phaedrus





From: dan warner <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis 
Question or 2..
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:20:06 -0700 (PDT)

Not only that, how many carbon credits are being used by all the people 
going to, performning at, etc. Al 'I invented the internet' Gore's concert 
today?

   Plus - how hopped up was his dope smoking kid's Prius that ran 100 mph in 
Orange County this week?

   DW

drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
   Too hot to work out in the shop much today so I figured I would sit
around and scratch my brain a bit.. Been thinking about green house
gases and how they work. Co2 and methane, I think (dangerous) heat the
earth by reflecting infrared heat back downward. Ie they trap the heat
in the atmosphere. Now here is my question...if they reflect the heat
back inward wouldn't they also reflect the heat from the sun in those
wave lengths back into space? Seems that would be a net zero gain. Any
atmosphericic chemists or other smart people out there that can explain
it to me?

Next, how the heck do I figure out how much hydrogen and oxygen are
produced for given voltage, current and electrode sizes? I know that
electrolysis works at a minimum of 1.2 volts and just milliamps, but
what if the volts was say 12 volts or 24 volts or 40 volts and 20 amps?
If the electrode is too large will it be effective as a gas producer
because the current density is lower?

mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07


---------------------------------
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of 
spyware protection.
_______________________________________________
boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun Jul  8 08:15:22 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 10:15:22 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <000501c7c16a$6c1247e0$563c2544@john>

Dave

I guessed at the front tread width and wheelbase and with Keith being an 
accurate person I  assumed his ackerman was correct . The rest is simple 
math .

John



>You must be either a savant or pure genius to know the amount of
>Ackerman built in from an e-mail and no print especially like the
>ability to measure in tenths of a thou with a Stanley tape measure LOL..
>D

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Jul  8 08:37:41 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 08:37:41 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
References: <20070708042006.81790.qmail@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c7c16d$8ad465c0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Dan
He said it was a family matter and to give them privacy, after all the kid 
is going to re-hab just like all them chicks did and look how they are 
doing. It's all fiction in the Gore family, and they thought Dan Quail was a 
little off because he can't spell potato.
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis 
Question or 2..


> Not only that, how many carbon credits are being used by all the people 
> going to, performning at, etc. Al 'I invented the internet' Gore's concert 
> today?
>
>  Plus - how hopped up was his dope smoking kid's Prius that ran 100 mph in 
> Orange County this week?
>
>  DW
>
> drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
>  Too hot to work out in the shop much today so I figured I would sit
> around and scratch my brain a bit.. Been thinking about green house
> gases and how they work. Co2 and methane, I think (dangerous) heat the
> earth by reflecting infrared heat back downward. Ie they trap the heat
> in the atmosphere. Now here is my question...if they reflect the heat
> back inward wouldn't they also reflect the heat from the sun in those
> wave lengths back into space? Seems that would be a net zero gain. Any
> atmosphericic chemists or other smart people out there that can explain
> it to me?
>
> Next, how the heck do I figure out how much hydrogen and oxygen are
> produced for given voltage, current and electrode sizes? I know that
> electrolysis works at a minimum of 1.2 volts and just milliamps, but
> what if the volts was say 12 volts or 24 volts or 40 volts and 20 amps?
> If the electrode is too large will it be effective as a gas producer
> because the current density is lower?
>
> mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
> _______________________________________________

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Jul  8 08:40:31 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 08:40:31 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
References: <002501c7c11b$1d7feff0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <001c01c7c16d$ef9ba720$6401a8c0@Glens>

Who and where are all of those thermometers located for the last 200 years, 
who recorded the data was it one of Al Gores grandpas.??
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: "'dan warner'" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis 
Question or 2..


> Global warming works over millenia and we have history fior a couple of
> hundred years suggests the data base is a bit shallow..
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of dan warner
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 12:20 AM
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
> Question or 2..
>
>
> Not only that, how many carbon credits are being used by all the people
> going to, performning at, etc. Al 'I invented the internet' Gore's
> concert today?
>
>  Plus - how hopped up was his dope smoking kid's Prius that ran 100 mph
> in Orange County this week?
>
>  DW
>
> drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
>  Too hot to work out in the shop much today so I figured I would sit
> around and scratch my brain a bit.. Been thinking about green house
> gases and how they work. Co2 and methane, I think (dangerous) heat the
> earth by reflecting infrared heat back downward. Ie they trap the heat
> in the atmosphere. Now here is my question...if they reflect the heat
> back inward wouldn't they also reflect the heat from the sun in those
> wave lengths back into space? Seems that would be a net zero gain. Any
> atmosphericic chemists or other smart people out there that can explain
> it to me?
>
> Next, how the heck do I figure out how much hydrogen and oxygen are
> produced for given voltage, current and electrode sizes? I know that
> electrolysis works at a minimum of 1.2 volts and just milliamps, but
> what if the volts was say 12 volts or 24 volts or 40 volts and 20 amps?
> If the electrode is too large will it be effective as a gas producer
> because the current density is lower?
>
> mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
> _______________________________________________
> dwarner230 at yahoo.com
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release Date: 7/2/2007
> 3:35 PM
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dlodom at charter.net  Sun Jul  8 08:45:45 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 07:45:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <000501c7c16a$6c1247e0$563c2544@john>
References: <000501c7c16a$6c1247e0$563c2544@john>
Message-ID: <4690F899.3090801@charter.net>

John Burk wrote:

> Dave
>
> I guessed at the front tread width and wheelbase and with Keith being 
> an accurate person I  assumed his ackerman was correct . The rest is 
> simple math .
>
> John
>
> John, I'm ready to learn a new trick anytime. How can yuou measure 
> ackerman if you do not know the length of the steering arms and the 
> distance they are apart?

Doug Odom in big ditch

>
>> You must be either a savant or pure genius to know the amount of
>> Ackerman built in from an e-mail and no print especially like the
>> ability to measure in tenths of a thou with a Stanley tape measure LOL..
>> D
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------

From dlodom at charter.net  Sun Jul  8 08:49:26 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 07:49:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <039d01c7bfbd$249ad700$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <380-2200775601419359@earthlink.net>
	<039d01c7bfbd$249ad700$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <4690F976.4000102@charter.net>

>NASCAR guys have been using this method for years. I started in the 60's. A friend of mine told me the guy in town with a slinement shop said he could not believe it would work. Said to bring the car down and he would aline it for me for free. He put it on his new trick $hit, lazer, megabucks machine and guess what? It was spot on. We rolled it off and reloaded it and it was still right on. After a half hour of drawing pictures and explaning it to him he got it. A straight line is a straight line if its lazer or string pulled tight.
>
    It still amazes me that people talk about LSR cars like they are all 
the same. Look at the wheelbase, tread width, rear steer/ front steer, 
straight axle, independent  before you even talk about ackerman.
Doug Odom in big ditch

>I've always stated that as a total of 1/8th" toe in...   check this thought 
>out... ( thanks to Dahlgren )
>
>Take a jack stand at each outside corner of the car... tie a string to to 
>the back... and then set it so the string is laying on the back tire about 
>mid height...   now tie the other end to the front jack stand ( same side .. 
>Geez)...  and pull the string tight... with it touching the back of the rear 
>tire start to bring the jack stand closer to the front tire... once it just 
>touches the front of the back tire it's straight with the tire... Set it 
>down.... do the same thing on the other side....
>
>normally your front track is slightly less then your rear... so if you take 
>one front tire and measure it exactly even... the other wheel should 
>indicate the exact toe in.
>
>Man if you followed that you could be a hero...
>
>Keith 
>_______________________________________________

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sun Jul  8 10:43:46 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:43:46 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <000e01c7c17f$27add6e0$563c2544@john>

Doug asked

> How can you measure ackerman if you do not know the length of the steering
arms and the >distance they are apart?

Doug , if the ackerman is correct the axis of each front wheel crosses the
axis of the rear wheels at the same point . If the left front is turned 1 deg
left and the wheel base is 10 ft the radius of that triangle is 573 ft . If
the front tread is 4 ft the right front triangle (10 x 577) is .0993 deg .

John

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Sun Jul  8 10:48:44 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:48:44 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
References: <002c01c7c11c$9c378dc0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <003f01c7c17f$dae4bee0$6401a8c0@Rick>

Dave,
Doesn't it matter if the design is front or rear steer?
Besides who the hell is Ackerman cept for a guy that does the weather in 
Detroit TV.

:=d

Rick 

From Jimwprice at aol.com  Sun Jul  8 17:04:37 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:04:37 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
Message-ID: <bdf.1761022b.33c2c785@aol.com>

Please, please, please.  Keep the politics somewhere else. This is  supposed 
to be an LSR site.



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  8 20:06:29 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:06:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
In-Reply-To: <bdf.1761022b.33c2c785@aol.com>
Message-ID: <856666.23907.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Jim,
   
  I'm sorry. Too much red wine on a Saturday night, watching the concert. Politics aside it was a bitch'n concert. I have already told Jon that I'm moving on.
   
  Let's race,
   
  DW

Jimwprice at aol.com wrote:
      Please, please, please.  Keep the politics somewhere else. This is supposed to be an LSR site.



    
---------------------------------
  See what's free at AOL.com. 



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jul  8 20:37:29 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:37:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
In-Reply-To: <bdf.1761022b.33c2c785@aol.com>
References: <bdf.1761022b.33c2c785@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46919F69.7060702@mayfco.com>

Hmmm, I wan't aware of any particualy odius political content to either 
of the 2 technical questions I asked. What part was political? Was it 
the part where I asked how the greenhouse gases work? Or the one that 
asked how to figure out electrolysis? Seems neither of those is 
particularly political.  The green house gases intrigue me and so why 
would I not ask a list that has a zillion people who might have some 
experience in these matters?  Ditto with electrolysis since I saw a TV 
clip where a guy claims he can drive his car on water. Has some kind of 
electrolysis doohickey that seems to be able to make enough h2 and o2 to 
assist in the operation of the motor in his car. Where's the politics in 
that?
So, I will keep asking technical questions and prefacing them with "OT" 
which stands for off topic and for you to hit the delete key before 
engaging the message.

mayf

Jimwprice at aol.com wrote:

>Please, please, please.  Keep the politics somewhere else. This is  supposed 
>to be an LSR site.
>
>
>
>************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  8 20:54:17 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:54:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
In-Reply-To: <46919F69.7060702@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20070709025417.39180.qmail@web52502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

mayf,
   
  I started the political rant by jumping on Al Gore's kid, cabon credits and the general disarray of our great country. All that aside, the US is still the best place on Earth to do what we want to do and are allowed to do it.
   
  DW

drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
  Hmmm, I wan't aware of any particualy odius political content to either 
of the 2 technical questions I asked. What part was political? Was it 
the part where I asked how the greenhouse gases work? Or the one that 
asked how to figure out electrolysis? Seems neither of those is 
particularly political. The green house gases intrigue me and so why 
would I not ask a list that has a zillion people who might have some 
experience in these matters? Ditto with electrolysis since I saw a TV 
clip where a guy claims he can drive his car on water. Has some kind of 
electrolysis doohickey that seems to be able to make enough h2 and o2 to 
assist in the operation of the motor in his car. Where's the politics in 
that?
So, I will keep asking technical questions and prefacing them with "OT" 
which stands for off topic and for you to hit the delete key before 
engaging the message.

mayf

Jimwprice at aol.com wrote:

>Please, please, please. Keep the politics somewhere else. This is supposed 
>to be an LSR site.
>
>
>
>************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>
>
>
> 
>





Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. 

From ed at vetteracing.com  Sun Jul  8 21:56:16 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:56:16 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
Message-ID: <W533412002642281183953376@webmail6>

They counted tree rings.............
Ed

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com]
>Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2007 07:40 AM
>To: ddahlgren at snet.net
>Cc: landspeed at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis Question or 2..
>
>Who and where are all of those thermometers located for the last 200 years, 
>who recorded the data was it one of Al Gores grandpas.??
>GB
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
>To: "'dan warner'" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 10:47 PM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis 
>Question or 2..
>
>
>> Global warming works over millenia and we have history fior a couple of
>> hundred years suggests the data base is a bit shallow..
>> Dave

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sun Jul  8 23:16:22 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 01:16:22 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
References: <bdf.1761022b.33c2c785@aol.com>
  <46919F69.7060702@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <000401c7c1e8$56698d80$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Gentlemen (and Ladies);

Mayf just asked some interesting technical questions, maybe "off-topic" but
certainly not political

Water-fueled cars are either outright frauds or attempts to create perpetual
motion machines. For some good descriptions go to the Wikipedia (free
encyclopedia) web site and look up "Water fuel cell" and "Water-fuelled
car".  During my long years in the advanced energy business at Westinghouse
numerous people approached us and wanted us to invest in such "inventions",
but they always either refused to let us examine their devices or would not
explain them in terms of technical principles.

My version of the greenhouse/global warming effect is as follows:

--the earth is warmed by solar radiation which is visible light, full
spectrum radiation

--the earth must reflect some of the radiation back into space to stay in
constant temperature equilibrium.

--the reflected thermal radiation consists solely of longer wave length
infrared radiation--this is the key point.

--some of the infrared radiation interacts with, and heats, the so-called
greenhouse gases (CO2, Methane) which is good because it maintains the earth
at a liveable temperature.

--increasing (or decreasing) amounts of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere
increases ( or decreases) the earth's equilibrium temperature.

--the process is naturally cyclic which is why we have periodic ice ages.

--the solar output of the sun is also cyclic and presently in one of it's
peak output periods

--proponents of the "global warming" issue claim that human activities are
adding enough greenhouse gases to cause an increase in the equilibrium
temperature that will be higher than that of previous natural temperature
peaks--belief in this senario is not universal among scientists.

Mayf's question helped me think thru the above---it's not political (unless
a reader wants to make it so)

Lance




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: <Jimwprice at aol.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
Question or 2..


> Hmmm, I wan't aware of any particualy odius political content to either
> of the 2 technical questions I asked. What part was political? Was it
> the part where I asked how the greenhouse gases work? Or the one that
> asked how to figure out electrolysis? Seems neither of those is
> particularly political.  The green house gases intrigue me and so why
> would I not ask a list that has a zillion people who might have some
> experience in these matters?  Ditto with electrolysis since I saw a TV
> clip where a guy claims he can drive his car on water. Has some kind of
> electrolysis doohickey that seems to be able to make enough h2 and o2 to
> assist in the operation of the motor in his car. Where's the politics in
> that?
> So, I will keep asking technical questions and prefacing them with "OT"
> which stands for off topic and for you to hit the delete key before
> engaging the message.
>
> mayf
>
> Jimwprice at aol.com wrote:
>
>>Please, please, please.  Keep the politics somewhere else. This is
>>supposed
>>to be an LSR site.

From Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Mon Jul  9 06:11:39 2007
From: Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:11:39 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Greenhouse Gases
Message-ID: <070920071211.25867.469225FA000E97310000650B22007358349C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>

While there are plenty of holes in the global warming theory, I'm glad our unsustainable dependance on fossil fuel is finally under scrutiny, and driving the thinking and funding of alternatives.
I would love to be assured of being able to tow my deal the 3000 miles to the salt for many years to come. BJ

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Mon Jul  9 07:08:39 2007
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 08:08:39 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Looking for a Fellow Sidewinder Member
In-Reply-To: <C2B5A4B6.1549%drylakercr@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB2088A5F91@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Here ya go. You have Ballons out on OCT 21st, no late night partying for
you...

Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drylakercr
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 11:15 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Looking for a Fellow Sidewinder Member

Hello all!

Life has been crazy for me since my mom & sister's passing in January.
The biggest pieces of wisdom I have learned in the passed six months
are:

1. Cherish every moment you have with your loved ones.
2. Set up a Living Trust. Probate is awfully expensive, time consuming
and tedious.

Now to what I've come looking for...I signed up some time ago for my
lakes meet duty with my club, the Sidewinders. However, now I can't
remember what month it was for and I've also misplaced my club schedule!
Really, I am usually not this disorganized!

So, if any one of you are a Sidewinder and you have the schedule, could
you look at it for me? I think I signed up for setting up balloons in
the fall.

Thanks and take care!
Katie Young Cortez
#256 XXO/VGC record holder
_______________________________________________
mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of Sidewinders_Duties 6-25-07.xlr]

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Mon Jul  9 07:20:25 2007
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 08:20:25 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
In-Reply-To: <000401c7c1e8$56698d80$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB2088A5FBB@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

That's why Mars is experiencing Global Warming also...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

<soapbox=ON>
Al Gore is just a concert promoter lining his pockets
<soapbox=OFF>

Mike Meierle
Alcatel-Lucent
Sr. Systems Engineer
7751 Windsor Drive
Dublin, Ohio 43016
Office: (614) 733-3989
Fax:    (614) 733-3961
Cell:    (614) 284-6229



--the process is naturally cyclic which is why we have periodic ice
ages.

--the solar output of the sun is also cyclic and presently in one of
it's peak output periods

--proponents of the "global warming" issue claim that human activities
are adding enough greenhouse gases to cause an increase in the
equilibrium temperature that will be higher than that of previous
natural temperature peaks--belief in this senario is not universal among
scientists.

Mayf's question helped me think thru the above---it's not political
(unless a reader wants to make it so)

Lance




----- Original Message -----
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: <Jimwprice at aol.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
Question or 2..


> Hmmm, I wan't aware of any particualy odius political content to
either
> of the 2 technical questions I asked. What part was political? Was it
> the part where I asked how the greenhouse gases work? Or the one that
> asked how to figure out electrolysis? Seems neither of those is
> particularly political.  The green house gases intrigue me and so why
> would I not ask a list that has a zillion people who might have some
> experience in these matters?  Ditto with electrolysis since I saw a TV
> clip where a guy claims he can drive his car on water. Has some kind
of
> electrolysis doohickey that seems to be able to make enough h2 and o2
to
> assist in the operation of the motor in his car. Where's the politics
in
> that?
> So, I will keep asking technical questions and prefacing them with
"OT"
> which stands for off topic and for you to hit the delete key before
> engaging the message.
>
> mayf
>
> Jimwprice at aol.com wrote:
>
>>Please, please, please.  Keep the politics somewhere else. This is
>>supposed
>>to be an LSR site.
_______________________________________________
mike.meierle at alcatel-lucent.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of Mike Meierle.vcf]

From Nt788 at aol.com  Mon Jul  9 09:01:01 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:01:01 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Greenhouse Gases
Message-ID: <d07.137803e5.33c3a7ad@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/9/2007 5:12:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net writes:

While  there are plenty of holes in the global warming theory, I'm glad our  
unsustainable dependance on fossil fuel is finally under scrutiny, and driving 
 the thinking and funding of alternatives.
I would love to be assured of  being able to tow my deal the 3000 miles to 
the salt for many years to come.  


In Europe small diesel cars that get 50mpg are  permitted!   Sex, religion 
and politics--Three manipulative  activities used to control it all! Nebulous  
Theorem



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From Nt788 at aol.com  Mon Jul  9 09:24:40 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:24:40 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Sharing your drive or ride.
Message-ID: <c05.1a0795a3.33c3ad38@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/26/2007 10:51:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
MPittwood at compuserve.com writes:

With  even more litigation in the USA you may have to consider how you  have
documented the persons training and familiarisation with controls and  the
machines performance.  If they do even one pass, have you a  written risk
assessment for the event and track that you are  using?

Lots to think about.




I hope big brother has good tyres so he can get here sooner!  NT



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From Nt788 at aol.com  Mon Jul  9 09:14:28 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:14:28 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
Message-ID: <d31.f57e096.33c3aad4@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/8/2007 10:17:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jolylance at earthlink.net writes:

>>Please, please, please.  Keep the politics somewhere else.  This is
>>supposed
>>to be an LSR  site.



Ok but how soon will catalytic converters and smog control be required in  
racing? Maybe the're doing it for us! Jack



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Jul  9 12:06:44 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:06:44 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] rooms
Message-ID: <016301c7c253$e93865d0$6401a8c0@Glens>

# rooms available at speed week see www.landracing.com  they wont last long.
Glen

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Mon Jul  9 16:16:16 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:16:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <4690F976.4000102@charter.net>
References: <380-2200775601419359@earthlink.net>
	<039d01c7bfbd$249ad700$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<4690F976.4000102@charter.net>
Message-ID: <20070709221627.43387187A4A@autox.team.net>

Now suppose that you run a streamliner with an in-line front end. At 
what point in the turn radius do you line up the wheels/tires? And if 
the answer is "straight" how does one do that? Straightedge along the 
sides of the tires? Which tire is master and which is slave? With any 
real accuracy, I don't know where the toe in is on my car.
Skip




At 07:49 AM 7/8/2007, DougOdom wrote:
> >NASCAR guys have been using this method for years. I started in 
> the 60's. A friend of mine told me the guy in town with a slinement 
> shop said he could not believe it would work. Said to bring the car 
> down and he would aline it for me for free. He put it on his new 
> trick $hit, lazer, megabucks machine and guess what? It was spot 
> on. We rolled it off and reloaded it and it was still right on. 
> After a half hour of drawing pictures and explaning it to him he 
> got it. A straight line is a straight line if its lazer or string pulled tight.
> >
>     It still amazes me that people talk about LSR cars like they are all
>the same. Look at the wheelbase, tread width, rear steer/ front steer,
>straight axle, independent  before you even talk about ackerman.
>Doug Odom in big ditch
>
> >I've always stated that as a total of 1/8th" toe in...   check this thought
> >out... ( thanks to Dahlgren )
> >
> >Take a jack stand at each outside corner of the car... tie a string to to
> >the back... and then set it so the string is laying on the back tire about
> >mid height...   now tie the other end to the front jack stand ( 
> same side ..
> >Geez)...  and pull the string tight... with it touching the back 
> of the rear
> >tire start to bring the jack stand closer to the front tire... once it just
> >touches the front of the back tire it's straight with the tire... Set it
> >down.... do the same thing on the other side....
> >
> >normally your front track is slightly less then your rear... so if you take
> >one front tire and measure it exactly even... the other wheel should
> >indicate the exact toe in.
> >
> >Man if you followed that you could be a hero...
> >
> >Keith

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  9 16:20:50 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:20:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Question
Message-ID: <247771.37756.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

After fifty-plus years of playing with old cars, it would seem that I should have more answers than questions, but here goes, another stupid question.  
   
  I decided that while the motor was out of my car (77 Pontiac Firebird), I'd detail the engine compartment, and replace both of the old, bent-up front brake lines.  When I got ready to bleed the front brakes, I removed the bleeding nipples to clean them up a bit, and noticed bubbles streaming out of the caliper fitting.  After a moment, the bubbles stopped and a solid flow of fluid started leaking out.  I screwed the nipples back in and snugged them down.  I checked the master cylinder, which had just been filled, and the front bowl was about half empty.  I topped it off, got into the car to feel the pedal, and the brakes were fine.  The system had "bled itself" ? ? ?  
   
  I've done that with hydraulic front disc brakes on motorcycles before, helping along by tapping on the brake line, but I've never had it happen with a car.  
   
  Any comments??
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas

  
---------------------------------
Looking for earth-friendly autos? 
 Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.  

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Mon Jul  9 16:26:42 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:26:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Question
In-Reply-To: <247771.37756.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <247771.37756.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070709222652.BDF65187A54@autox.team.net>

That happens when the master cylinder is above the calipers. On my 
car I couldn't get the brakes bled until I located the MS such that 
it was above the calipers. Then the brakes bled themselves, like yours.
Skip



At 03:20 PM 7/9/2007, Dick J wrote:
>After fifty-plus years of playing with old cars, it would seem that 
>I should have more answers than questions, but here goes, another 
>stupid question.
>
>   I decided that while the motor was out of my car (77 Pontiac 
> Firebird), I'd detail the engine compartment, and replace both of 
> the old, bent-up front brake lines.  When I got ready to bleed the 
> front brakes, I removed the bleeding nipples to clean them up a 
> bit, and noticed bubbles streaming out of the caliper 
> fitting.  After a moment, the bubbles stopped and a solid flow of 
> fluid started leaking out.  I screwed the nipples back in and 
> snugged them down.  I checked the master cylinder, which had just 
> been filled, and the front bowl was about half empty.  I topped it 
> off, got into the car to feel the pedal, and the brakes were 
> fine.  The system had "bled itself" ? ? ?
>
>   I've done that with hydraulic front disc brakes on motorcycles 
> before, helping along by tapping on the brake line, but I've never 
> had it happen with a car.
>
>   Any comments??
>
>   DickJ
>   In East Texas

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Jul  9 17:08:49 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 23:08:49 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <070920072308.26308.4692C001000608BE000066C42200734830CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

I believe Joaquin Arnett actually published something about this.  They used in line front wheels on one of the Bean Bandit liners.  I seem to remember that Joaquin received some recognition for the explanation.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Skip Higginbotham <saltrat at pahrump.com>
> Now suppose that you run a streamliner with an in-line front end. At 
> what point in the turn radius do you line up the wheels/tires? And if 
> the answer is "straight" how does one do that? Straightedge along the 
> sides of the tires? Which tire is master and which is slave? With any 
> real accuracy, I don't know where the toe in is on my car.
> Skip

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Jul  9 17:19:44 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:19:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Questionor 2..
In-Reply-To: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
References: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <00b701c7c27f$a2ce1b40$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Mayf;

I just got back from being out of town for a few days so maybe someone else
has already answered this better than I can.

The deal on CO2 heat gain is the same as leaving your car windows up in the
sun-- the light from the sun has a large proportion of its energy at short
wavelengths and that passes through the glass easily where it is absorbed by
the car's interior. This heats up the dash, seats, etc to maybe 150F and
these hot surfaces radiate their heat at a much longer wavelength (the peak
wavelength of the radiation is dependent on the temperature of the surface--
very hot = short wavelength and warm = longer wavelength). Long wavelength
radiation is not transmitted easily by glass so there is a net gain in heat.
Ditto for CO2.

The sun's surface is roughly 6000F so it radiates visible light (some IR and
UV, too) but a cool surface such as the human body radiates in the long
infrared (about 5 to 15 microns). 

H2 & O2 are liberated by the number of Coulombs of energy you pass through
the electrolyte. Coulombs are amps X seconds. 

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 12:39 PM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis Questionor
2..

Too hot to work out in the shop  much today so I figured I would sit 
around and scratch my brain a bit.. Been thinking about green house 
gases and how they work. Co2 and methane, I think (dangerous) heat the 
earth by reflecting infrared heat back downward. Ie they trap the heat 
in the atmosphere. Now here is my question...if they reflect the heat 
back inward wouldn't they also reflect the heat from the sun in those 
wave lengths back into space? Seems that would be a net zero gain. Any 
atmosphericic chemists or other smart people out there that can explain 
it to me?

Next, how the heck do I figure out how much hydrogen and oxygen are 
produced for given voltage, current and electrode sizes?  I know that 
electrolysis works at a minimum of 1.2 volts and just milliamps, but 
what if the volts was say 12 volts or 24 volts or 40 volts and 20 amps? 
If the electrode is too large will it be effective as a gas producer 
because the current density is lower?

mayf, way off and far out in a hotter than hell pahrump...
_______________________________________________

From dlodom at charter.net  Mon Jul  9 18:45:19 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:45:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Question
In-Reply-To: <247771.37756.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <247771.37756.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4692D69F.4070405@charter.net>

Dick, I  use gravity to bleed my brakes every chance I can.    
Doug Odom in big ditch

Dick J wrote:

>After fifty-plus years of playing with old cars, it would seem that I should have more answers than questions, but here goes, another stupid question.  
>   
>  I decided that while the motor was out of my car (77 Pontiac Firebird), I'd detail the engine compartment, and replace both of the old, bent-up front brake lines.  When I got ready to bleed the front brakes, I removed the bleeding nipples to clean them up a bit, and noticed bubbles streaming out of the caliper fitting.  After a moment, the bubbles stopped and a solid flow of fluid started leaking out.  I screwed the nipples back in and snugged them down.  I checked the master cylinder, which had just been filled, and the front bowl was about half empty.  I topped it off, got into the car to feel the pedal, and the brakes were fine.  The system had "bled itself" ? ? ?  
>   
>  I've done that with hydraulic front disc brakes on motorcycles before, helping along by tapping on the brake line, but I've never had it happen with a car.  
>   
>  Any comments??
>   
>  DickJ
>  In East Texas
>
>  
>---------------------------------
>L

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  9 18:52:23 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:52:23 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Question
In-Reply-To: <247771.37756.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F3416B5E1B7997D94C229D5D9050@phx.gbl>

       Mother nature done smiled on you son.



      of course,  it's a matter of some gravity....          LOL     ha  ha  
ha



         " and of COURSE,  your mileage may vary "

        cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York, Okaaaaaaaaaaay,  I'll go 
back to sleep now,

       ....... zzz  zzz  zzzz zzzz  zzz zz zzz  zzz zzzzz  zz zzz zzz  zzz 
zzzz  zzzzz zzzzz  zzz zzzzz zzzzz



From: Dick J <lsr_man at yahoo.com>
To: lsr list autox <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Question
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:20:50 -0700 (PDT)

After fifty-plus years of playing with old cars, it would seem that I should 
have more answers than questions, but here goes, another stupid question.

   I decided that while the motor was out of my car (77 Pontiac Firebird), 
I'd detail the engine compartment, and replace both of the old, bent-up 
front brake lines.  When I got ready to bleed the front brakes, I removed 
the bleeding nipples to clean them up a bit, and noticed bubbles streaming 
out of the caliper fitting.  After a moment, the bubbles stopped and a solid 
flow of fluid started leaking out.  I screwed the nipples back in and 
snugged them down.  I checked the master cylinder, which had just been 
filled, and the front bowl was about half empty.  I topped it off, got into 
the car to feel the pedal, and the brakes were fine.  The system had "bled 
itself" ? ? ?

   I've done that with hydraulic front disc brakes on motorcycles before, 
helping along by tapping on the brake line, but I've never had it happen 
with a car.

   Any comments??      DickJ    In East Texas

_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  9 18:57:47 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:57:47 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed]  TOE IN  >>> Joaquin Arnett
In-Reply-To: <070920072308.26308.4692C001000608BE000066C42200734830CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F379E9B9E7B8E590FC31677D9050@phx.gbl>

  Wes & List,

   Speaking of whom, does anyone know how our friend Joaquin is doing ?

   I haven't seen him in years.  A great guy...  -a craftsman.    And funny.



         " keep your friends, you don't get many  "

  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -50 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


From: wester6935 at comcast.net


I believe Joaquin Arnett actually published something about this.
They used in line front wheels on one of the Bean Bandit liners.
I seem to remember that Joaquin received some recognition for the 
explanation.

Wes

===========================================================

  -------------- Original message ----------------------

From: Skip Higginbotham <saltrat at pahrump.com>
 > Now suppose that you run a streamliner with an in-line front end. At
 > what point in the turn radius do you line up the wheels/tires? And if
 > the answer is "straight" how does one do that? Straightedge along the
 > sides of the tires? Which tire is master and which is slave? With any
 > real accuracy, I don't know where the toe in is on my car.


 > Skip

_________________________________________________________________
Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one 
place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01

From dlodom at charter.net  Mon Jul  9 19:01:58 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:01:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <20070709221609.OUCK3316.aarpub05.charter.net@smtp.air-internet.com>
References: <380-2200775601419359@earthlink.net>
	<039d01c7bfbd$249ad700$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<4690F976.4000102@charter.net>
	<20070709221609.OUCK3316.aarpub05.charter.net@smtp.air-internet.com>
Message-ID: <4692DA86.9020702@charter.net>

Skip Higginbotham wrote:

>
> Now suppose that you run a streamliner with an in-line front end. At 
> what point in the turn radius do you line up the wheels/tires? And if 
> the answer is "straight" how does one do that? Straightedge along the 
> sides of the tires? Which tire is master and which is slave? With any 
> real accuracy, I don't know where the toe in is on my car.
> Skip
>
>
> Skip, I have never run inline wheels. But if I ever do change the 
> liner to inline front tires I  think I would make myself a toe gage. 
> My first idea would be to measure  off the right side of one of the 
> wheels and the left side of the other.  These lines should be 
> paralel.  Now if that didn't handle like I wanted I might think about 
> a little toe in. With the very small tire patch that we have with the 
> LSR tires I don't think a little toe would hurt anything.

What have you found works the best for your car?             Doug Odom 
in big ditch

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Jul  9 19:11:20 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:11:20 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN  >>> Joaquin Arnett
References: <BAY135-F379E9B9E7B8E590FC31677D9050@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <01b401c7c28f$3d5019c0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Last month I talked to one of the club members and he said he is not doing 
real well, Has trouble remembering things. A real hotrod pioneer though.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Anderson" <boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>
To: <wester6935 at comcast.net>; <saltrat at pahrump.com>; <dlodom at charter.net>; 
<kturk at ala.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:57 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN >>> Joaquin Arnett


>  Wes & List,
>
>   Speaking of whom, does anyone know how our friend Joaquin is doing ?
>
>   I haven't seen him in years.  A great guy...  -a craftsman.    And 
> funny.
>
>
>
>         " keep your friends, you don't get many  "
>
>  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,
>
>  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
>  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
>  -50 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
>  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
>  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
>  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
>          and never more than a few feet from a cold one
>
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> From: wester6935 at comcast.net
>
>
> I believe Joaquin Arnett actually published something about this.
> They used in line front wheels on one of the Bean Bandit liners.
> I seem to remember that Joaquin received some recognition for the
> explanation.
>
> Wes
>
> ===========================================================
>
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
>
> From: Skip Higginbotham <saltrat at pahrump.com>
> > Now suppose that you run a streamliner with an in-line front end. At
> > what point in the turn radius do you line up the wheels/tires? And if
> > the answer is "straight" how does one do that? Straightedge along the
> > sides of the tires? Which tire is master and which is slave? With any
> > real accuracy, I don't know where the toe in is on my car.
>
>
> > Skip

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Jul  9 19:12:57 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:12:57 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
References: <380-2200775601419359@earthlink.net><039d01c7bfbd$249ad700$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p><4690F976.4000102@charter.net><20070709221609.OUCK3316.aarpub05.charter.net@smtp.air-internet.com>
	<4692DA86.9020702@charter.net>
Message-ID: <01b701c7c28f$73de9f70$6401a8c0@Glens>

Al Teague's are off set just a little, I think Roy Fjasted's was as well.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DougOdom" <dlodom at charter.net>
To: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
Cc: "landspeed list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] TOE IN


> Skip Higginbotham wrote:
> 
>>
>> Now suppose that you run a streamliner with an in-line front end. At 
>> what point in the turn radius do you line up the wheels/tires? And if 
>> the answer is "straight" how does one do that? Straightedge along the 
>> sides of the tires? Which tire is master and which is slave? With any 
>> real accuracy, I don't know where the toe in is on my car.
>> Skip
>>
>>
>> Skip, I have never run inline wheels. But if I ever do change the 
>> liner to inline front tires I  think I would make myself a toe gage. 
>> My first idea would be to measure  off the right side of one of the 
>> wheels and the left side of the other.  These lines should be 
>> paralel.  Now if that didn't handle like I wanted I might think about 
>> a little toe in. With the very small tire patch that we have with the 
>> LSR tires I don't think a little toe would hurt anything.
> 
> What have you found works the best for your car?             Doug Odom 
> in big ditch
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Flowbench at aol.com  Mon Jul  9 19:41:40 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:41:40 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Question
Message-ID: <ce7.13b4abc0.33c43dd4@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/9/2007 5:45:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
dlodom at charter.net writes:

> Dick, I  use gravity to bleed my brakes every chance I can.   
> Doug Odom in big ditch
> 

It's a long wait for me, my master cylinder is lower than my calipers...

Mike


**************************************
 See what's free at 
http://www.aol.com.

From ed at vetteracing.com  Mon Jul  9 20:24:58 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 02:24:58 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Question
Message-ID: <W3418526256269341184034298@webmail30>

Apparently gravity doesn't work well in Arizona.... Seems like I alwayshave to
pump hell out of the pedal to bleed brakes/clutches. Never did like gravity,
but it's the law..........
Ed



>-----Original Message-----
>From: DougOdom [mailto:dlodom at charter.net]
>Sent: Monday, July 9, 2007 05:45 PM
>To: 'Dick J'
>Cc: 'lsr list autox'
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Brake Question
>
>Dick, I use gravity to bleed my brakes every chance I can.
>Doug Odom in big ditch
>
>Dick J wrote:
>
>>After fifty-plus years of playing with old cars, it would seemthat I should
have more answers than questions, but here goes, anotherstupid question.
>>
>> I decided that while the motor was out of my car (77 PontiacFirebird), I'd
detail the engine compartment, and replace both of theold, bent-up front brake
lines. When I got ready to bleed the frontbrakes, I removed the bleeding
nipples to clean them up a bit, andnoticed bubbles streaming out of the
caliper fitting. After a moment,the bubbles stopped and a solid flow of fluid
started leaking out. Iscrewed the nipples back in and snugged them down. I
checked the mastercylinder, which had just been filled, and the front bowl was
about halfempty. I topped it off, got into the car to feel the pedal, and
thebrakes were fine. The system had "bled itself" ? ? ?
>>
>> I've done that with hydraulic front disc brakes on motorcyclesbefore,
helping along by tapping on the brake line, but I've never hadit happen with a
car.
>>
>> Any comments??

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Mon Jul  9 22:03:44 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:03:44 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <001401c7c2a7$4f0baa40$563c2544@john>

Skip asked

> Now suppose that you run a streamliner with an in-line front end. At
> what point in the turn radius do you line up the wheels/tires? And if
> the answer is "straight" how does one do that? Straightedge along the
> sides of the tires? Which tire is master and which is slave? With any
> real accuracy, I don't know where the toe in is on my car.
> Skip


In Joysey we would put c-clamps on each hub and put enough bungees on the 
clamps to simulate rolling resistance and clamp a bar to the face of the 
front hub . When the bar is parallel to the chassis CL and parallel to the 
face of the rear hub the toe in is good .
John 

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Jul  9 22:49:36 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:49:36 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <071020070449.9436.46930FE00008CB3D000024DC2200745672CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

I'm pretty sure the Bean bandit liner had offset as well.
Might be worth a call to Al to ask questions.  From pictures
I have it looks like five inches or so.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Al Teague's are off set just a little, I think Roy Fjasted's was as well.
> Glen

From wmtsmith at cox.net  Mon Jul  9 22:54:34 2007
From: wmtsmith at cox.net (Wm. T. Smith)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:54:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Question or 2..
In-Reply-To: <000401c7c1e8$56698d80$2101a8c0@WinXP>
References: <bdf.1761022b.33c2c785@aol.com> 
	<46919F69.7060702@mayfco.com> <000401c7c1e8$56698d80$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <2519F30AA3244317B51DF79777649041@LMS>

---amen brother preach on!!!!!!!!!!!!!---a very HONEST assment!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joseph lance" <jolylance at earthlink.net>
To: <Jimwprice at aol.com>; "DR MAYF" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: "LAND-SPEED @ AUTOX.TEAM .NET" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 10:16 PM
>
> Mayf just asked some interesting technical questions, maybe "off-topic" 
> but
> certainly not political
>
> --the process is naturally cyclic which is why we have periodic ice ages.
>
> --the solar output of the sun is also cyclic and presently in one of it's
> peak output periods
>
> -- 

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Jul  9 23:06:18 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 01:06:18 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Questionor 2..
References: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
	<00b701c7c27f$a2ce1b40$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <000201c7c2b0$12d32a90$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Neil;

Good description of radiation wave lengths and the closed car or glass
greenhouse effect--they heat up inside mainly because there is no convective
heat transfer between the air in the enclosure and the air outside.

But the global warming "greenhouse" effect is a little different--there the
IR is absorbed by the CO2 molecules and the resulting excitation and
molecular collisions heat up the atmosphere. Still caused by IR but with a
different mechanism.  Maybe we could arrange a convective heat transfer
exchange with an outside planet...............(LOL).

Been talking with Mayf about electrolytic H2---did some Coulomb/Joule/Mole
calculations to prove (to myself) that making the stuff requires slightly
more electrical power than the resulting H2 is worth heating value wise. Not
a new or previously unknown result, but fun doing--nice thing about this
site is that it encourages me to limber up old skills and maybe ward off
Alzheimer's!!

Lance


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "'LSR'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
Questionor 2..


> Mayf;
>
> I just got back from being out of town for a few days so maybe someone
> else
> has already answered this better than I can.
>
> The deal on CO2 heat gain is the same as leaving your car windows up in
> the
> sun-- the light from the sun has a large proportion of its energy at short
> wavelengths and that passes through the glass easily where it is absorbed
> by
> the car's interior. This heats up the dash, seats, etc to maybe 150F and
> these hot surfaces radiate their heat at a much longer wavelength (the
> peak
> wavelength of the radiation is dependent on the temperature of the
> surface--
> very hot = short wavelength and warm = longer wavelength). Long wavelength
> radiation is not transmitted easily by glass so there is a net gain in
> heat.
> Ditto for CO2.
>
> The sun's surface is roughly 6000F so it radiates visible light (some IR
> and
> UV, too) but a cool surface such as the human body radiates in the long
> infrared (about 5 to 15 microns).
>
> H2 & O2 are liberated by the number of Coulombs of energy you pass through
> the electrolyte. Coulombs are amps X seconds.
>
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Jul 10 06:06:27 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 05:06:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bike flies in last test run before Speed Week - Local
 News - Waikato Times
Message-ID: <000501c7c2ea$bf1eefc0$3901000a@Dale>

http://www.stuff.co.nz:80/stuff/4121852a6579.html

Bike ready for Bonneville
dale
ssuunnyy and going to 99 in Caldwell,id

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Jul 10 08:12:04 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:12:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <4692DA86.9020702@charter.net>
References: <380-2200775601419359@earthlink.net>
	<039d01c7bfbd$249ad700$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<4690F976.4000102@charter.net>
	<20070709221609.OUCK3316.aarpub05.charter.net@smtp.air-internet.com>
	<4692DA86.9020702@charter.net>
Message-ID: <20070710141214.DFE09187A9D@autox.team.net>

Doug,
What I do is use a toe gage (long straight edge) on the left side of 
the front tire and line up the left side of the rear tire to it. The 
problem I have is getting the front tire pointed straight ahead 
(parallel with the chassis).
So basically the same method as you  would use. The car handles fine 
once we got the weight even on the front tires (critical item with 
solid suspension). Gary says he drives it with one hand and uses the 
other for switches, knobs, levers, etc.
Skip




At 06:01 PM 7/9/2007, DougOdom wrote:
>Skip Higginbotham wrote:
>>
>>Now suppose that you run a streamliner with an in-line front end. 
>>At what point in the turn radius do you line up the wheels/tires? 
>>And if the answer is "straight" how does one do that? Straightedge 
>>along the sides of the tires? Which tire is master and which is 
>>slave? With any real accuracy, I don't know where the toe in is on my car.
>>Skip
>>
>>
>>Skip, I have never run inline wheels. But if I ever do change the 
>>liner to inline front tires I  think I would make myself a toe 
>>gage. My first idea would be to measure  off the right side of one 
>>of the wheels and the left side of the other.  These lines should 
>>be paralel.  Now if that didn't handle like I wanted I might think 
>>about a little toe in. With the very small tire patch that we have 
>>with the LSR tires I don't think a little toe would hurt anything.
>What have you found works the best for your car?             Doug 
>Odom in big ditch

From Nt788 at aol.com  Tue Jul 10 08:18:27 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:18:27 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Questionor 2..
Message-ID: <ca4.13dd6ded.33c4ef33@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/10/2007 12:06:19 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jolylance at earthlink.net writes:

Good  description of radiation wave lengths and the closed car or  glass
greenhouse effect--they heat up inside mainly because there is no  convective
heat transfer between the air in the enclosure and the air  outside.



IT MIGHT BE OSMOSIS OF THE FUNNYMOSIS!



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From dlodom at charter.net  Tue Jul 10 08:50:42 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:50:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <000e01c7c17f$27add6e0$563c2544@john>
References: <000e01c7c17f$27add6e0$563c2544@john>
Message-ID: <46939CC2.1080303@charter.net>

John Burk wrote:

>Doug asked
>
>  
>
>>How can you measure ackerman if you do not know the length of the steering
>>    
>>
>arms and the >distance they are apart?
>
>Doug , if the ackerman is correct the axis of each front wheel crosses the
>axis of the rear wheels at the same point . If the left front is turned 1 deg
>left and the wheel base is 10 ft the radius of that triangle is 573 ft . If
>the front tread is 4 ft the right front triangle (10 x 577) is .0993 deg .
>
>John
>  
>
OK, Now if the ackerman is not correct after you measure it, what will 
you change to make it correct?
  Doug

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Jul 10 09:29:53 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:29:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <46939CC2.1080303@charter.net>
References: <000e01c7c17f$27add6e0$563c2544@john>
	<46939CC2.1080303@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4693A5F1.5010602@mayfco.com>

Doug, I suspect that the length of the steering arm at the wheel would 
have to be changed.  This is a very common issue with the SUnbeam Tiger 
sitting in my garage. The ackerman angles are truly farkled. As you 
turn, the inner wheel turn some but the outer wheel turns more! Makes 
for lots of oversteer. Thias all came about because Carroll Shelby was 
in a hurry to get the Tiger back to Lord Rootes for production design. 
Put the steering rack in the way wrong spot and then added angles tie 
rod ends to cure the problem. Result...ok in a dead straight line not 
worth a plugged nickle on a turn. Many things tried to fix. Only thing 
is a new front end design.

All, regards front end design for an in-line streamliner. On a four 
wheeled car in normal configuration, the front tires are separated by 
the track of the front tires. And as has been stated, if you turn, then 
the line drawn perpendicular to the wheel (or a line entending from the 
spindle straight out) strikes the line drawn through the rear axle 
(think of long extended axles). Then the outer wheel must turn  in a 
manner such that the line extended from the spindle meets the  same 
intersection point on the rear axle line as the inner wheel intersection 
line. SOunds complicated but really isn't.  Now I have not built or even 
participated in the building of a liner with inline steering wheels. But 
here is how I would do it. I would draw the line through the rear axle 
and put the car's centerline on it. Then measure up to the centerline of 
the rearmost steering wheel. Then scribe an arc down to the rear axle 
centerline. Do the same for the front steering wheel. If you do this, 
you will see that the front wheel turns less than the rear steering 
wheel. This would I believe be a correct ackerman.  Then I would fab up 
the steering arms to make this happen. I could very well be wrong in 
this however. It is my turn to be wrong this week...  Unfortunately this 
is really complicated by caster.  In order to work perectly the 
suspension would have to be straight up and down through the contact 
patch without any heeling over due to caster or king pin offset.

Or you could run a bike...

mayf


DougOdom wrote:

>John Burk wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Doug asked
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>How can you measure ackerman if you do not know the length of the steering
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>arms and the >distance they are apart?
>>
>>Doug , if the ackerman is correct the axis of each front wheel crosses the
>>axis of the rear wheels at the same point . If the left front is turned 1 deg
>>left and the wheel base is 10 ft the radius of that triangle is 573 ft . If
>>the front tread is 4 ft the right front triangle (10 x 577) is .0993 deg .
>>
>>John
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>OK, Now if the ackerman is not correct after you measure it, what will 
>you change to make it correct?
>  Doug
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Jul 10 09:36:41 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:36:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <46939CC2.1080303@charter.net>
References: <000e01c7c17f$27add6e0$563c2544@john>
	<46939CC2.1080303@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4693A789.7000200@mayfco.com>

Doug, I suspect that the length of the steering arm at the wheel would
have to be changed.  This is a very common issue with the SUnbeam Tiger
sitting in my garage. The ackerman angles are truly farkled. As you
turn, the inner wheel turn some but the outer wheel turns more! Makes
for lots of oversteer. Thias all came about because Carroll Shelby was
in a hurry to get the Tiger back to Lord Rootes for production design.
Put the steering rack in the way wrong spot and then added angles tie
rod ends to cure the problem. Result...ok in a dead straight line not
worth a plugged nickle on a turn. Many things tried to fix. Only thing
is a new front end design.

All, regards front end design for an in-line streamliner. On a four
wheeled car in normal configuration, the front tires are separated by
the track of the front tires. And as has been stated, if you turn, then
the line drawn perpendicular to the wheel (or a line entending from the
spindle straight out) strikes the line drawn through the rear axle
(think of long extended axles). Then the outer wheel must turn  in a
manner such that the line extended from the spindle meets the  same
intersection point on the rear axle line as the inner wheel intersection
line. SOunds complicated but really isn't.  Now I have not built or even
participated in the building of a liner with inline steering wheels. But
here is how I would do it. I would draw the line through the rear axle
and put the car's centerline on it. Then measure up to the centerline of
the rearmost steering wheel. Then scribe an arc down to the rear axle
centerline. Do the same for the front steering wheel. If you do this,
you will see that the front wheel turns less than the rear steering
wheel. This would I believe be a correct ackerman.  Then I would fab up
the steering arms to make this happen. I could very well be wrong in
this however. It is my turn to be wrong this week...  Unfortunately this
is really complicated by caster.  In order to work perectly the
suspension would have to be straight up and down through the contact
patch without any heeling over due to caster or king pin offset.

Or you could run a bike...

mayf


DougOdom wrote:

>John Burk wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Doug asked
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>How can you measure ackerman if you do not know the length of the steering
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>arms and the >distance they are apart?
>>
>>Doug , if the ackerman is correct the axis of each front wheel crosses the
>>axis of the rear wheels at the same point . If the left front is turned 1 deg
>>left and the wheel base is 10 ft the radius of that triangle is 573 ft . If
>>the front tread is 4 ft the right front triangle (10 x 577) is .0993 deg .
>>
>>John
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>OK, Now if the ackerman is not correct after you measure it, what will 
>you change to make it correct?
>  Doug

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Tue Jul 10 09:36:49 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:36:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Questionor 2..
In-Reply-To: <000201c7c2b0$12d32a90$2101a8c0@WinXP>
References: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
	<00b701c7c27f$a2ce1b40$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<000201c7c2b0$12d32a90$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <4693A791.5090705@wildblue.net>

 Good point Lance.

This list provides very good brain muscle exercise for this
70 year old fart.
Mayf sometimes gives it a charlie-horse, but it's worth it.

Bryan


joseph lance wrote:

.............
>  Not
> a new or previously unknown result, but fun doing--nice thing about this
> site is that it encourages me to limber up old skills and maybe ward off
> Alzheimer's!!
>
> Lance

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Jul 10 10:32:10 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:32:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OT: Green House Gases.. and an Electrolysis
 Questionor 2..
In-Reply-To: <4693A791.5090705@wildblue.net>
References: <468FEBEF.3060409@mayfco.com>
	<00b701c7c27f$a2ce1b40$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<000201c7c2b0$12d32a90$2101a8c0@WinXP> <4693A791.5090705@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <4693B48A.5060103@mayfco.com>

Hmmm... I am thinking that most people think of me as being a pain just 
a bit higher up, lol...

mayf
Bryan Savage wrote:

> Good point Lance.
>
> This list provides very good brain muscle exercise for this
> 70 year old fart.
> Mayf sometimes gives it a charlie-horse, but it's worth it.
>
> Bryan
>
>
> joseph lance wrote:
>
> .............
>
>>  Not
>> a new or previously unknown result, but fun doing--nice thing about this
>> site is that it encourages me to limber up old skills and maybe ward off
>> Alzheimer's!!
>>
>> Lance

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Jul 10 10:55:10 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:55:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <4693A789.7000200@mayfco.com>
References: <000e01c7c17f$27add6e0$563c2544@john>
	<46939CC2.1080303@charter.net> <4693A789.7000200@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20070710165521.1ACE8187B82@autox.team.net>

Mayf
It is the caster complication that my little brain couldn't get past. 
So I made the steering arms the same length so there should be no 
Ackerman effect. Shouldn't be needed for a car that runs straight......
I DO know that weight on wheels (steering) is very critical to the 
directional stability of my car. It is not on a conventional 4 cornered setup.
I agree with the rest of your proposed method as well. Hard to draw 
straight lines through the frame tho....(-:(-:
Skip




At 08:36 AM 7/10/2007, drmayf wrote:
>Doug, I suspect that the length of the steering arm at the wheel would
>have to be changed.  This is a very common issue with the SUnbeam Tiger
>sitting in my garage. The ackerman angles are truly farkled. As you
>turn, the inner wheel turn some but the outer wheel turns more! Makes
>for lots of oversteer. Thias all came about because Carroll Shelby was
>in a hurry to get the Tiger back to Lord Rootes for production design.
>Put the steering rack in the way wrong spot and then added angles tie
>rod ends to cure the problem. Result...ok in a dead straight line not
>worth a plugged nickle on a turn. Many things tried to fix. Only thing
>is a new front end design.
>
>All, regards front end design for an in-line streamliner. On a four
>wheeled car in normal configuration, the front tires are separated by
>the track of the front tires. And as has been stated, if you turn, then
>the line drawn perpendicular to the wheel (or a line entending from the
>spindle straight out) strikes the line drawn through the rear axle
>(think of long extended axles). Then the outer wheel must turn  in a
>manner such that the line extended from the spindle meets the  same
>intersection point on the rear axle line as the inner wheel intersection
>line. SOunds complicated but really isn't.  Now I have not built or even
>participated in the building of a liner with inline steering wheels. But
>here is how I would do it. I would draw the line through the rear axle
>and put the car's centerline on it. Then measure up to the centerline of
>the rearmost steering wheel. Then scribe an arc down to the rear axle
>centerline. Do the same for the front steering wheel. If you do this,
>you will see that the front wheel turns less than the rear steering
>wheel. This would I believe be a correct ackerman.  Then I would fab up
>the steering arms to make this happen. I could very well be wrong in
>this however. It is my turn to be wrong this week...  Unfortunately this
>is really complicated by caster.  In order to work perectly the
>suspension would have to be straight up and down through the contact
>patch without any heeling over due to caster or king pin offset.
>
>Or you could run a bike...
>
>mayf

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Jul 10 10:57:39 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:57:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] EFI lessons
Message-ID: <2E1F4759A1294685969914B78C9C8516@LMS>

1.  FAST injectors ground with activation of the electric fuel pump.  No
electric pump---no ground for the injectors---no squirt !!!!!

2.. FAST wiring harness are wired for GM sensors and controlers---some off
breed (Chrysler) sensors look and feel like GM--- BUT are wired much
different:

          TPS only 2 wires but have to be cut and switched.

          IAC 4 wires wired very different from GM --but will interchange as
for as bolt on and plug in.

 some of this can bee very simple once you understand there function and a way
to test them---dont always have to have expensive testors..  I was working
with a guy who is very good and I was able to help the cause by asking trouble
shooting questions, and more questions---I was able to stay and help but I
paid for the education in more ways than I might be aware of.

OHHH!!!!!!!! if you are going to try to chassic dyno tune---have a car with
clutch or torque converter---direct drive autos dont work????






      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From SCowle at mentorcollege.edu  Tue Jul 10 11:10:13 2007
From: SCowle at mentorcollege.edu (Scott Cowle)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:10:13 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Throttle bodies
Message-ID: <46938535020000380000477A@gw.mentorcollege.edu>

Does anyone have any experience switching their race car from carburetor to a
throttle body setup-is it worth the time and expense?I'm asking this because
there seems to be a consensus that a carbureted engine produces more power
with a blower than one that has a throttle body.Anyone know why?I'd like to go
with a throttle body for tuneability but not if it costs power. Scott



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Any review, use, or distribution or disclosure by others is
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authorized to receive the information from the recipient, please
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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Jul 10 11:55:00 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:55:00 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <4693A789.7000200@mayfco.com> 
References: <000e01c7c17f$27add6e0$563c2544@john>
	<46939CC2.1080303@charter.net> <4693A789.7000200@mayfco.com> 
Message-ID: <4693C7F4.9080005@mayfco.com>

Yup, in a car like yours caster is a booger because the suspension is 
rigid. As the wheels turn one tries to lift and the other lower all at 
the same time. Add to that the turn radius described by the tilt of the 
wheel caused by the caster and it gets complicated quickly.  As to 
drawing straight lines... you use a plumb bob on the center of the front 
of the car and drop a point on the floor. Ditto rear. Snap a chalk line 
between them. Draw a perpendicular line at the centerline of the rear 
axle. Now you got a really big diagram to work form and the accuracy 
goes up. And you didn't have to cut down a tree to make paper....

Still as you say, this ain't no autocross car, lol...  Still you don't 
want those front tires to wear out turning out...

mayf, in from cutting the front grass...finally cool enough that heat 
stroke is not much of a problem..

Rear grass this evening..

 
Skip Higginbotham wrote:

>
> Mayf
> It is the caster complication that my little brain couldn't get past. 
> So I made the steering arms the same length so there should be no 
> Ackerman effect. Shouldn't be needed for a car that runs straight......
> I DO know that weight on wheels (steering) is very critical to the 
> directional stability of my car. It is not on a conventional 4 
> cornered setup.
> I agree with the rest of your proposed method as well. Hard to draw 
> straight lines through the frame tho....(-:(-:
> Skip

From ecpurinton at wildblue.net  Wed Jul 11 05:20:47 2007
From: ecpurinton at wildblue.net (Ed Purinton)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:20:47 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] EFI lessons
Message-ID: <4694BD0F.3090808@wildblue.net>

Sparky,

     Re: ohhhh.    IF the car has a self starter,  hold down straps can 
be hooked up, drive wheels jacked up, car started, dyno rollers started, 
and drive wheels lowered onto rollers.  Probably not OSHA approved shop 
practice but have seen it done with a Lakester running a Jones in & out 
box/quick change.

                                                 Ed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Jul 11 06:48:39 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 05:48:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NEW CAR NET,
 the UK new car guide :: Ford news - Land speed Hydrogen Ford ::
 Links, Newsletter, She Drives, Galleries, Motor Show, Road Tests,
 User Reviews, Daily News, Car Videos, Features, NEWS /  REVIEWS,
 First Impressions, Motormouth, Blog
Message-ID: <000501c7c3b9$ce683390$3901000a@Dale>

http://www.newcarnet.co.uk:80/Ford_news.html?id=7001

Ford to compete for Hydrogen fuel cell car record at Bonneville
dale
ssuunnyy and going to 101 in Caldwell, id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Jul 11 06:56:26 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 05:56:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] =?iso-8859-1?q?Ford=27s_Hydrogen_999_racer_shooting_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?for_fuel_cell_land_speed_record_=BB_Hybrid_News?=
Message-ID: <000501c7c3ba$e4a12d50$3901000a@Dale>

http://www.hybridtactics.com:80/fords-hydrogen-999-racer-shooting-for-fuel-ce
ll-land-speed-record/1127
more news about ford fuel cell racer
dale
ssuunnyy and going to 101 in Caldwell, id , and I came here to get away from
the heat in pahrump?

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Wed Jul 11 08:02:06 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:02:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <4693C7F4.9080005@mayfco.com>
References: <000e01c7c17f$27add6e0$563c2544@john>
	<46939CC2.1080303@charter.net> <4693A789.7000200@mayfco.com>
	<4693C7F4.9080005@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4694E2DE.2060509@wildblue.net>

I like to work with BIG pictures. Butcher paper (from Costco) taped to the
floor has worked well for me. (50 year old garage floor)
Bryan 

drmayf wrote:
> Yup, in a car like yours caster is a booger because the suspension is 
> rigid. As the wheels turn one tries to lift and the other lower all at 
> the same time. Add to that the turn radius described by the tilt of the 
> wheel caused by the caster and it gets complicated quickly.  As to 
> drawing straight lines... you use a plumb bob on the center of the front 
> of the car and drop a point on the floor. Ditto rear. Snap a chalk line 
> between them. Draw a perpendicular line at the centerline of the rear 
> axle. Now you got a really big diagram to work form and the accuracy 
> goes up. And you didn't have to cut down a tree to make paper....
>
> Still as you say, this ain't no autocross car, lol...  Still you don't 
> want those front tires to wear out turning out...
>
> mayf, in from cutting the front grass...finally cool enough that heat 
> stroke is not much of a problem..
>
> Rear grass this evening..

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Wed Jul 11 10:33:07 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:33:07 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Ford=27s_Hydrogen_999_racer_shooting_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?for_fuel_cell_land_speed_record_=BB_Hybrid_News?=
References: <000501c7c3ba$e4a12d50$3901000a@Dale>
Message-ID: <000f01c7c3d9$2c2fd400$6401a8c0@Rick>

I AM BLESSED
OK, now I can finally talk about it publicly.
Ford came to me thru Roush Ind. to help build a safe, legal race car using 
Hydrogen power for a large array of fuel cells.  Safe for LSR that is, and 
safe for me....
I am also under contract to drive the car at Speed Week this year.  We have 
done some testing with battery power, and will test tomorrow on a chassis 
dyno with full functioning fuel cells and this weekend at the test track. 
The fuel cell tray is on line making power, and is ready to go.
The car is, as the articles say, a highly modified Fusion with lots of aero 
work, and will run for Time Only.  There actually is no class for production 
based electric cars, but that is achedemic.  The group of Ford Research 
scientists and engineers are demonstrating their level of expertise with 
Hydrogen powered fuel cells, and It is considerable.  I won't try to 
describe the technical detail the car because it will speak for itself,  I'm 
just the driver.  I'm certain though that the LSR community will like the 
car and the presence of Ford at Speed Week.  We have been attempting to be 
really low key with this deal, but as you might imagine it is becomming 
harder.   The logistics of such a complex program sort of demands lots of 
people and support.   The Ford engineering community has been working with 
SCTA so there will NOT be any surprises.
As for the car itself, it is rear wheel drive, quite conventional using a 
Ford GT gear box, and custom built suspension.  The chassis if full boogie 
race car with a funny car/pro stock "Halo" type cage and a full containment 
NASCAR type seat, but lay down of 30 degrees.  The driver compartment is 
really small and basically built around me, an average height guy of 5'4" 
tall and 200 lbs :=d   (actually less than that when I can finally zip up my 
fire suit.
We have built a VERY safe car, with  and I am quite excited about the 
opportunity given  me.  As I said earlier, I am blessed.

Rick Byrnes


I'm sure there will be more info coming

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 11 10:41:47 2007
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
  cell land speed record » Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <000f01c7c3d9$2c2fd400$6401a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <916138.79361.qm@web58010.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Quite cool Rick, best of luck to you and the team. Any predictions on performance ? From the linked article it sounds as though you will have plenty of performance capabilities.  
Dale Krumheuer
Cleveland Oh
 
Rick Byrnes <Rick at RBMotorsports.com> wrote: I AM BLESSED
OK, now I can finally talk about it publicly.
Ford came to me thru Roush Ind. to help build a safe, legal race car using 
Hydrogen power for a large array of fuel cells.  Safe for LSR that is, and 
safe for me....
I am also under contract to drive the car at Speed Week this year.  We have 
done some testing with battery power, and will test tomorrow on a chassis 
dyno with full functioning fuel cells and this weekend at the test track. 
The fuel cell tray is on line making power, and is ready to go.
The car is, as the articles say, a highly modified Fusion with lots of aero 
work, and will run for Time Only.  There actually is no class for production 
based electric cars, but that is achedemic.  The group of Ford Research 
scientists and engineers are demonstrating their level of expertise with 
Hydrogen powered fuel cells, and It is considerable.  I won't try to 
describe the technical detail the car because it will speak for itself,  I'm 
just the driver.  I'm certain though that the LSR community will like the 
car and the presence of Ford at Speed Week.  We have been attempting to be 
really low key with this deal, but as you might imagine it is becomming 
harder.   The logistics of such a complex program sort of demands lots of 
people and support.   The Ford engineering community has been working with 
SCTA so there will NOT be any surprises.
As for the car itself, it is rear wheel drive, quite conventional using a 
Ford GT gear box, and custom built suspension.  The chassis if full boogie 
race car with a funny car/pro stock "Halo" type cage and a full containment 
NASCAR type seat, but lay down of 30 degrees.  The driver compartment is 
really small and basically built around me, an average height guy of 5'4" 
tall and 200 lbs :=d   (actually less than that when I can finally zip up my 
fire suit.
We have built a VERY safe car, with  and I am quite excited about the 
opportunity given  me.  As I said earlier, I am blessed.

Rick Byrnes


I'm sure there will be more info coming
_


  
    Therere no rules of the roadnot even understandings. Craziest is king and the contestants are bold.



 
---------------------------------
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

From mactem at mebtel.net  Wed Jul 11 10:46:21 2007
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:46:21 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
Message-ID: <002001c7c3db$0360fb10$0300a8c0@brightstar>

Rick, Thanks for sharing that info.  Be prepared for a lot of questions.
See you on the salt!
David

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Jul 11 10:54:20 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:54:20 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NEW CAR NET,
 the UK new car guide :: Ford news - Land speed Hydrogen Ford ::
 Links, Newsletter, She Drives, Galleries, Motor Show, Road Tests,
 User Reviews, Daily News, Car  Videos, Features, NEWS /  REVIEWS,
 First Impressions, Motormouth, Blog
Message-ID: <071120071654.22355.46950B3B000E9BDC000057532200734830CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

With Rousch doing the modifications on the Ford car and with the same technology being used by the Ohio Staate streamliner it should be an inteesting time on the salt.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>
> http://www.newcarnet.co.uk:80/Ford_news.html?id=7001
> 
> Ford to compete for Hydrogen fuel cell car record at Bonneville
> dale
> ssuunnyy and going to 101 in Caldwell, id
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Nt788 at aol.com  Wed Jul 11 11:04:44 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:04:44 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <d54.d3c0c7d.33c667ac@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/10/2007 9:12:31 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
drmayf at mayfco.com writes:

Unfortunately this
is really complicated by caster.  In order to work  perectly the
suspension would have to be straight up and down through the  contact
patch without any heeling over due to caster or king pin  offset.




I think the least amount of caster is best,(lsr)  jack



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From Askotto at aol.com  Wed Jul 11 12:04:51 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:04:51 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
Message-ID: <c5a.155420a6.33c675c3@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/10/2007 8:47:46 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
dlodom at charter.net writes:

OK, Now  if the ackerman is not correct after you measure it, what will 
you change  to make it correct?
Doug





Hi Doug
 
For Ackerman to be correct, the angle of the steering arm in relation to  the 
centerline of the wheel/tire needs to be proper. If you draw a straight line  
from the king pin/center spindle through the steering arm heim/tie rod end 
pivot  it should intersect at the center of the rear axle.
 
If it doesn't intersect in the middle, change the steering arm angle to the  
wheel centerline until it does.
 
Changing the length of the steering arm only changes the turn radius and  
steering ratio and has no effect on Ackerman.
 
Otto



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Jul 11 12:49:09 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:49:09 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] count down
Message-ID: <007501c7c3ec$2ad85fb0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Wow,Only 30 days to speed week. Are you counting KT.
Glen

From joetimney at dol.net  Wed Jul 11 15:03:20 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:03:20 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] count down
In-Reply-To: <007501c7c3ec$2ad85fb0$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <007501c7c3ec$2ad85fb0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <46954598.4090909@dol.net>

Keith is in California putting the motor in the car for El Mirage.
joe

Glen Barrett wrote:
> Wow,Only 30 days to speed week. Are you counting KT.
> Glen
> _______________________________________________

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Jul 11 16:08:56 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:08:56 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] count down
References: <007501c7c3ec$2ad85fb0$6401a8c0@Glens> <46954598.4090909@dol.net>
Message-ID: <009c01c7c408$13d001d0$6401a8c0@Glens>

That should get his attention, See you and Donna in a few days.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Timney" <joetimney at dol.net>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] count down


> Keith is in California putting the motor in the car for El Mirage.
> joe
> 
> Glen Barrett wrote:
>> Wow,Only 30 days to speed week. Are you counting KT.
>> Glen
>> _______________________________________________

From dlodom at charter.net  Wed Jul 11 16:33:11 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:33:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <c5a.155420a6.33c675c3@aol.com>
References: <c5a.155420a6.33c675c3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46955AA7.4070407@charter.net>

Otto, You are correct! I build my race cars with zero ackerman. I want 
both front tires pointed in the direction I'm trying to go with a race 
car.      Doug Odom in big ditch

> Hi Doug
>  
> For Ackerman to be correct, the angle of the steering arm in relation 
> to the centerline of the wheel/tire needs to be proper. If you draw a 
> straight line from the king pin/center spindle through the steering 
> arm heim/tie rod end pivot it should intersect at the center of the 
> rear axle.
>  
> If it doesn't intersect in the middle, change the steering arm angle 
> to the wheel centerline until it does.
>  
> Changing the length of the steering arm only changes the turn radius 
> and steering ratio and has no effect on Ackerman.
>  
> Otto
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See what's free at AOL.com 
> <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.

From dlodom at charter.net  Wed Jul 11 16:41:03 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:41:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN
In-Reply-To: <d54.d3c0c7d.33c667ac@aol.com>
References: <d54.d3c0c7d.33c667ac@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46955C7F.80501@charter.net>

Nt788 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/10/2007 9:12:31 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
> drmayf at mayfco.com writes:
>
>       Unfortunately this
>     is really complicated by caster.  In order to work perectly the
>     suspension would have to be straight up and down through the contact
>     patch without any heeling over due to caster or king pin offset.
>
> I think the least amount of caster is best,(lsr) jack
>
> Yep, You need just enough caster to maintain directional stability. 
> After that it just steers harder. A rough, rutty uneven surface needs 
> more caster than a flat smooth surface.

Doug Odom in big ditch

>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See what's free at AOL.com 
> <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 11 16:56:55 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:56:55 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Joaquin Arnett
In-Reply-To: <01b401c7c28f$3d5019c0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F218B17975A1211AFD030C5D9040@phx.gbl>

    GLEN:  Please,  if you do see Joaquin,

   Please give my best regards, and tell him I sure miss their "Burrito 
Feeds"

   -and most especially seeing him...

    Please do that for me ?  I am forever in your debt....


    -Doug Anderson  AKA "Dirt Track Doug"

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "Doug Anderson" 
<boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>,<wester6935 at comcast.net>,<saltrat at pahrump.com>,<dlodom at charter.net>,<kturk at ala.net>
CC: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: Joaquin Arnett

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:11:20 -0600

Last month I talked to one of the club members and he said he is not doing 
real well, Has trouble remembering things. A real hotrod pioneer though.

Glen


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Anderson" 
<boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com>
To: <wester6935 at comcast.net>; <saltrat at pahrump.com>; <dlodom at charter.net>; 
<kturk at ala.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:57 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] TOE IN >>> Joaquin Arnett


>  Wes & List,
>
>   Speaking of whom, does anyone know how our friend Joaquin is  doing ?



   I haven't seen him in years.  A great guy...  -a craftsman.    And funny.


        " keep your friends, you don't get many  "

    cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"   in exile, in So. New York,

>  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
>  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
>  -50 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
>  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
>  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
>  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
>         -and never more than a few feet from a cold one
>
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>From: wester6935 at comcast.net
>
>
>I believe Joaquin Arnett actually published something about this.
>They used in line front wheels on one of the Bean Bandit liners.
>I seem to remember that Joaquin received some recognition for the
>explanation.
>
>Wes

_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 11 17:28:19 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:28:19 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed rec
In-Reply-To: <000f01c7c3d9$2c2fd400$6401a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F344CA065C00EAD043CD813D9040@phx.gbl>

    Hey!

    -did somebody say "boogie" ???

     afraid that's my angle of expertise there Rick...

     Can me & Boogie Woogie (  she is IS a FORD after all, )  get 'in on the 
action'

      (sorta as the "before"   in the "before & After"  fotos ? )    LOL!

         " lookin' for a job "

    cheers, AND congratulations!  - "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -50 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one

     Speedway Bikes, Harley D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
     Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,
     Aerial Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,

           -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they are

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
To: "Dale H Pulju" <d.pulju at pahrump.com>, <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell 
land speed record ; Hybrid News
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:33:07 -0400

I AM BLESSED

OK, now I can finally talk about it publicly.

Ford came to me thru Roush Ind. to help build a safe, legal race car using
Hydrogen power for a large array of fuel cells.  Safe for LSR that is, and
safe for me....

I am also under contract to drive the car at Speed Week this year.  We have
done some testing with battery power, and will test tomorrow on a chassis
dyno with full functioning fuel cells and this weekend at the test track.
The fuel cell tray is on line making power, and is ready to go.
The car is, as the articles say, a highly modified Fusion with lots of aero
work, and will run for Time Only.  There actually is no class for production
based electric cars, but that is achedemic.  The group of Ford Research
scientists and engineers are demonstrating their level of expertise with
Hydrogen powered fuel cells, and It is considerable.  I won't try to
describe the technical detail the car because it will speak for itself,  I'm
just the driver.  I'm certain though that the LSR community will like the
car and the presence of Ford at Speed Week.  We have been attempting to be
really low key with this deal, but as you might imagine it is becomming
harder.   The logistics of such a complex program sort of demands lots of
people and support.   The Ford engineering community has been working with
SCTA so there will NOT be any surprises.

As for the car itself, it is rear wheel drive, quite conventional using a
Ford GT gear box, and custom built suspension.  The chassis if full boogie
race car with a funny car/pro stock "Halo" type cage and a full containment
NASCAR type seat, but lay down of 30 degrees.  The driver compartment is
really small and basically built around me, an average height guy of 5'4"
tall and 200 lbs :=d   (actually less than that when I can finally zip up my
fire suit.

We have built a VERY safe car, with  and I am quite excited about the
opportunity given  me.  As I said earlier, I am blessed.

Rick Byrnes

_________________________________________________________________
Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!  
http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Jul 11 17:32:38 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:32:38 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] More techie semi LSR stuff
Message-ID: <cd0.13190fc4.33c6c296@aol.com>

I have a " Kool Shirt" device in my car. For those unfamiliar, it's  
basically a T-shirt w/ built-in plastic tubing leading to an ice water container  (in 
my case, the intercooler ice-a-box) with a little pump and switch to keep  
your cool while you wear your snow suit in August in the desert.
For Father's Day, my son got me one of those cooler/heater box deals for  
long trips, as in Maxton, The Salt, etc.
I did a little research and found the principle that makes this work is the  
Peltier effect, another one of those things that work in spite of logic, kinda 
 like airplane wing lift, bumblebees, etc. 
My question is the possibility of the LSR application of this principle,  
primarily in the Kool shirt mode for you guys without ice a boxes. I'm attaching  
an outfit that custom makes them for rally cars, basically the same reason 
we'd  use them. They sound initially expensive buy I'd bet there are some 
computer  savvy Hot Rodders out there that could Goldberg one of these up, no?
 



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From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Jul 11 17:42:42 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:42:42 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd:  More techie semi LSR stuff ( the attachment)
Message-ID: <c71.16d18300.33c6c4f2@aol.com>

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From: BWANA343 at aol.com
Full-name: BWANA343
Message-ID: <c09.1c9ad738.33c6c466 at aol.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:40:22 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] More techie semi LSR stuff ( the attachment)
To: BWANA343 at aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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MOTOR  SPORTPROBLEM:  A rally car racing team had a need to chill drinking 
water inside their moving  vehicles, while they raced through very hot desert 
conditions.  
SOLUTION:  A solid state cold plate based on TECA model _AHP-300CP_ 
(http://www.thermoelectric.com/2005/pr/cp/ahp-300cp.htm) . 
(http://www.thermoelectric.com/2005/app/images/ahp300cp.jpg)  
The _AHP-300CP_ (http://www.thermoelectric.com/2005/pr/cp/ahp-300cp.htm) , 
which draws power directly from the car battery,  was the solution to maintain 
the temperature of the water at an acceptable  level.  With a ready supply of 
chilled water, the racing team could drive  at peak performance. 
_http://www.thermoelectric.com/2005/pr/cp/ahp-300cp.htm_ 
(http://www.thermoelectric.com/2005/pr/cp/ahp-300cp.htm) 



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From ddahlgren at snet.net  Wed Jul 11 19:18:32 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:18:32 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Throttle bodies
In-Reply-To: <46938535020000380000477A@gw.mentorcollege.edu>
Message-ID: <001d01c7c422$90931940$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Depends on who 'they' are..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Scott Cowle
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:10 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Throttle bodies


Does anyone have any experience switching their race car from carburetor
to a throttle body setup-is it worth the time and expense?I'm asking
this because there seems to be a consensus that a carbureted engine
produces more power with a blower than one that has a throttle
body.Anyone know why?I'd like to go with a throttle body for tuneability
but not if it costs power. Scott



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Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

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From saltfevr at mail.sisna.com  Wed Jul 11 21:02:14 2007
From: saltfevr at mail.sisna.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:02:14 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Ford=27s_Hydrogen_999_racer_shooting_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?for_fuel_cell_land_speed_record_=BB_Hybrid_News?=
Message-ID: <200707112102.AA4183556338@mail.sisna.com>

Rick;

Congrats on this very historic ride! Hopefully you know the entire Ford Fusion Team and Ohio State Univ has been invited to a Media Event & Car Show after SpeedWeek,Sat. Aug. 18 in Salt Lake. Welcomed by USFRA. Heres a link: Its produced by Kent & Brent Singleton. You might remember seeing young Brent running his elect. Jr Dragster at WOS a few yrs. ago.
http://www.Race2TheFuture.com

Thanks Dale & Rick



Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah



---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Date:  Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:33:07 -0400

>I AM BLESSED
>OK, now I can finally talk about it publicly.
>Ford came to me thru Roush Ind. to help build a safe, legal race car using 
>Hydrogen power for a large array of fuel cells.  Safe for LSR that is, and 
>safe for me....
>I am also under contract to drive the car at Speed Week this year.  We have 
>done some testing with battery power, and will test tomorrow on a chassis 
>dyno with full functioning fuel cells and this weekend at the test track. 
>The fuel cell tray is on line making power, and is ready to go.
>The car is, as the articles say, a highly modified Fusion with lots of aero 
>work, and will run for Time Only.  There actually is no class for production 
>based electric cars, but that is achedemic.  The group of Ford Research 
>scientists and engineers are demonstrating their level of expertise with 
>Hydrogen powered fuel cells, and It is considerable.  I won't try to 
>describe the technical detail the car because it will speak for itself,  I'm 
>just the driver.  I'm certain though that the LSR community will like the 
>car and the presence of Ford at Speed Week.  We have been attempting to be 
>really low key with this deal, but as you might imagine it is becomming 
>harder.   The logistics of such a complex program sort of demands lots of 
>people and support.   The Ford engineering community has been working with 
>SCTA so there will NOT be any surprises.
>As for the car itself, it is rear wheel drive, quite conventional using a 
>Ford GT gear box, and custom built suspension.  The chassis if full boogie 
>race car with a funny car/pro stock "Halo" type cage and a full containment 
>NASCAR type seat, but lay down of 30 degrees.  The driver compartment is 
>really small and basically built around me, an average height guy of 5'4" 
>tall and 200 lbs :=d   (actually less than that when I can finally zip up my 
>fire suit.
>We have built a VERY safe car, with  and I am quite excited about the 
>opportunity given  me.  As I said earlier, I am blessed.
>
>Rick Byrnes
>
>
>I'm sure there will be more info comi
>
 
 
_________________________________
SISNA...more service, less money.
http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/ 

From ecpurinton at wildblue.net  Thu Jul 12 05:17:15 2007
From: ecpurinton at wildblue.net (Ed Purinton)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:17:15 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] EFI lessons
Message-ID: <46960DBB.4050401@wildblue.net>

Sparky,

     Have the car positioned and strapped down to prevent it from moving 
forward BEFORE jacking drive wheels, starting car and dyno rollers, and 
then slowly lowering wheels against spinning rollers to test. We used 
straps from the front of the car running rearward to the floor and a 
floor jack under the rear of the car.  My function was the operation of 
the rear master electrical power switch on the car, either stood well to 
the side or had an escape path planned at all times.  Always the 
possibility of big things happening real fast.  Plan and set up 
accordingly, be careful, and it can be done.  Hope you have a safe and 
successful test.

     Thanks for the EFI tips, very interesting.

                                                                            
Ed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 12 09:49:37 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:49:37 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed]
 =?utf-8?q?Ford=27s_Hydrogen_999_racer_shooting_for_f?=
 =?utf-8?q?uel_cell_land_speed_record_=C2=BB_Hybrid_News?=
Message-ID: <30085065.1184255377777.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>>We have built a VERY safe car, with  and I am quite excited about the 
>opportunity given  me.  As I said earlier, I am blessed.
>
>Rick Byrnes
>
>
>I'm sure there will be more info coming


Rick you have good fortune. I hope Ford's interest does not cause the "circus" event that many of the others have. By the meager explanation the vehicle is not anything anyone could ever own but shows some potential for someone. 

GM's "joke" (my opinion) with SoCal by building a car, changing the drive train. chopping the top, etc and then saying we have the fastest Cobalt, HHR, etc does not improve an image or impress me at all. I can't buy it so why do it. Sorry my feeling. 

If I had all the money they have I would ask them to bring out an engine in my pickup that was not using the public as a test bench then complain when it doesn't work out. 

With over 500 entries and the circus which happens each time one of these cars leave the line or end up in impounds makes toleration difficult at best for the average guy wanting to run his car. Hey it happens and we know it. 

Publicity is good but if none of these vehicles ever showed up the meet would go on like it always have, no big deal. I hope someone learns something from this. 

Another opinion, Hydogen cars will never work out in mass. Ethanol cars will be another joke as soon as owners find out 15 gallons won't take you anywhere and maintenance cost have yet to be stated. 

OK it's everyones turn to yell at me....JD   

>_______________________________________________

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 10:22:50 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:22:50 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
  cell land speed record » Hybrid News
Message-ID: <071220071622.6203.4696555A0001C5D30000183B2200745672CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Actually, the SoCal car that set a record was a stock bodied Cobalt. I have
no idea of engine location, front/rear drive on that car.  I guess I was always 
more enamored with the other projects they were playing with. The HHR
was modified the way it was to avoid some pre-release spy shots from what I 
was told by some of the attending crew.  Whether that is correct or not is
not that important.  Remember, it was on the salt a couple of years before 
the production HHR's made an appearance.  That car was well buile for safety 
as the crash video has shown

With Rick's experience on the salt I'm sure the car he is driving will be very
safe.  He had some major input early on in the project.  Being a retired Ford
engineer does have some influence when it goes with a 2 Club hat, even 
with Roush.  He's in the same situation some of us used to be in at school.
You caught more flack at home after a problem all was cleared at school.  
Glynis would not be very forgiving if he hurt himself while racing.  Remember 
he still has that lakester to sort out.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: James Tone <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
> >>We have built a VERY safe car, with  and I am quite excited about the 
> >opportunity given  me.  As I said earlier, I am blessed.
> >
> >Rick Byrnes
> >
> >
> >I'm sure there will be more info coming
> 
> 
> Rick you have good fortune. I hope Ford's interest does not cause the "circus" 
> event that many of the others have. By the meager explanation the vehicle is not 
> anything anyone could ever own but shows some potential for someone. 
> 
> GM's "joke" (my opinion) with SoCal by building a car, changing the drive train. 
> chopping the top, etc and then saying we have the fastest Cobalt, HHR, etc does 
> not improve an image or impress me at all. I can't buy it so why do it. Sorry my 
> feeling. 
> 
> If I had all the money they have I would ask them to bring out an engine in my 
> pickup that was not using the public as a test bench then complain when it 
> doesn't work out. 
> 
> With over 500 entries and the circus which happens each time one of these cars 
> leave the line or end up in impounds makes toleration difficult at best for the 
> average guy wanting to run his car. Hey it happens and we know it. 
> 
> Publicity is good but if none of these vehicles ever showed up the meet would go 
> on like it always have, no big deal. I hope someone learns something from this. 
> 
> Another opinion, Hydogen cars will never work out in mass. Ethanol cars will be 
> another joke as soon as owners find out 15 gallons won't take you anywhere and 
> maintenance cost have yet to be stated. 
> 
> OK it's everyones turn to yell at me....JD   
> 
> >_______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jdincau at qnet.com  Thu Jul 12 10:41:18 2007
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:41:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
  cell land speed record » Hybrid News
References: <30085065.1184255377777.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00ee01c7c4a3$78e95760$0500000a@Den>

> Rick you have good fortune. I hope Ford's interest does not cause the 
> "circus" event that many of the others have. By the meager explanation the 
> vehicle is not anything anyone could ever own but shows some potential for 
> someone.
>
> GM's "joke" (my opinion) with SoCal by building a car, changing the drive 
> train. chopping the top, etc and then saying we have the fastest Cobalt, 
> HHR, etc does not improve an image or impress me at all. I can't buy it so 
> why do it. Sorry my feeling.
>
> If I had all the money they have I would ask them to bring out an engine 
> in my pickup that was not using the public as a test bench then complain 
> when it doesn't work out.
>
> With over 500 entries and the circus which happens each time one of these 
> cars leave the line or end up in impounds makes toleration difficult at 
> best for the average guy wanting to run his car. Hey it happens and we 
> know it.
>
> Publicity is good but if none of these vehicles ever showed up the meet 
> would go on like it always have, no big deal. I hope someone learns 
> something from this.
>
> Another opinion, Hydogen cars will never work out in mass. Ethanol cars 
> will be another joke as soon as owners find out 15 gallons won't take you 
> anywhere and maintenance cost have yet to be stated.
>
> OK it's everyones turn to yell at me....JD



Amen JD amen

Jim in Palmdale

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 12 10:42:22 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:42:22 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Ford=27s_Hydrogen_999_racer_shooting_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?for_fuel_cell_land_speed_record_=BB_Hybrid_News?=
In-Reply-To: <30085065.1184255377777.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <30085065.1184255377777.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <469659EE.4090007@mayfco.com>

heck, JD, I am gonna yell *with* you! In fact, I hope Rick takes your 
message and shows it to the people in charge of the project to show them 
what kind of reception they may get if they suck up all the rooms, if 
they hold up the prestaging and staging lines for stuff other than 
getting ready to run and the annoyance of having 50 people running 
around "helping". As you said with more than 500 entries, it is gonna be 
difficult to get to drive.  I am not sure exactly what Ford hopes to 
gain (but I am glad for Rick!!) but seems to me that they could have 
done this better on the autobahn or a test track somewhere. SO the 
reason is publicity and that always means a crowd.  Rick says they have 
worked with SCTA to assure no glitches and I guess that means no 
surprises in tech/safety. Maybe it should just be armwaved through since 
it is for time only. That would at least help the rest of us through 
tech by them getting out of the way. Another thing they could do to help 
the rest of us, is to show up for the last 3 or 4 days only. A lot of 
folk have gone home by then, hardly any tech line at all, no big crowds, 
yet the publicity woud still be there.

mayf
James Tone wrote:

>>>We have built a VERY safe car, with  and I am quite excited about the 
>>>      
>>>
>>opportunity given  me.  As I said earlier, I am blessed.
>>
>>Rick Byrnes
>>
>>
>>I'm sure there will be more info coming
>>    
>>
>
>
>Rick you have good fortune. I hope Ford's interest does not cause the "circus" event that many of the others have. By the meager explanation the vehicle is not anything anyone could ever own but shows some potential for someone. 
>
>GM's "joke" (my opinion) with SoCal by building a car, changing the drive train. chopping the top, etc and then saying we have the fastest Cobalt, HHR, etc does not improve an image or impress me at all. I can't buy it so why do it. Sorry my feeling. 
>
>If I had all the money they have I would ask them to bring out an engine in my pickup that was not using the public as a test bench then complain when it doesn't work out. 
>
>With over 500 entries and the circus which happens each time one of these cars leave the line or end up in impounds makes toleration difficult at best for the average guy wanting to run his car. Hey it happens and we know it. 
>
>Publicity is good but if none of these vehicles ever showed up the meet would go on like it always have, no big deal. I hope someone learns something from this. 
>
>Another opinion, Hydogen cars will never work out in mass. Ethanol cars will be another joke as soon as owners find out 15 gallons won't take you anywhere and maintenance cost have yet to be stated. 
>
>OK it's everyones turn to yell at me....JD   

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 10:42:36 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:42:36 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Can anyone confirm this?  Not LSR
Message-ID: <64d7ac86e9c7c24ae7b1285143400f12@comcast.net>

Question was why are boat steering wheels on the right side?  This was 
the answer posted by one respondent.

Boat propellers turn clockwise, sez Leon, and hulls used to be designed 
in such a way that when there was torque on the prop, the right side of 
the boat would rise up. So the wheel was put on the right, so the 
weight of these "healthy sized" fishermen would counteract that. As 
long as they didn't put the beer cooler on the left, which would throw 
everything off. This is not a problem with modern hulls, but the design 
stuck. Racing boats, however usually have the wheel on the left, like 
American cars.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 12 10:52:52 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:52:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Can anyone confirm this?  Not LSR
In-Reply-To: <64d7ac86e9c7c24ae7b1285143400f12@comcast.net>
References: <64d7ac86e9c7c24ae7b1285143400f12@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46965C64.1010007@mayfco.com>

Wes, I am not a boater. But seems to me that navigaton os what did it 
that way. Don't ships and other boats "drive" on the left side of the 
water way? My drag boat had it,s steering and controls on the left side 
like our cars.  For anything larger than a row boat, I don't think the 
reaction torque would be much because of the fluidity of the water.

How you doing?

mayf
Wester Potter wrote:

>Question was why are boat steering wheels on the right side?  This was 
>the answer posted by one respondent.
>
>Boat propellers turn clockwise, sez Leon, and hulls used to be designed 
>in such a way that when there was torque on the prop, the right side of 
>the boat would rise up. So the wheel was put on the right, so the 
>weight of these "healthy sized" fishermen would counteract that. As 
>long as they didn't put the beer cooler on the left, which would throw 
>everything off. This is not a problem with modern hulls, but the design 
>stuck. Racing boats, however usually have the wheel on the left, like 
>American cars.

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Jul 12 10:56:16 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:56:16 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Can anyone confirm this?  Not LSR
In-Reply-To: <64d7ac86e9c7c24ae7b1285143400f12@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001301c7c4a5$90ca3f50$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

He is right.. Most racing boats have twin engines so one prop cancels
the other.. And if a real race boat you need a throttle man as well..If
not like a hydroplane center steer.. BTW racing boats literally fly and
the only thing in the water is the prop..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Wester Potter
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:43 PM
To: list LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] Can anyone confirm this? Not LSR


Question was why are boat steering wheels on the right side?  This was
the answer posted by one respondent.

Boat propellers turn clockwise, sez Leon, and hulls used to be designed
in such a way that when there was torque on the prop, the right side of
the boat would rise up. So the wheel was put on the right, so the
weight of these "healthy sized" fishermen would counteract that. As
long as they didn't put the beer cooler on the left, which would throw
everything off. This is not a problem with modern hulls, but the design
stuck. Racing boats, however usually have the wheel on the left, like
American cars.
_______________________________________________
ddahlgren at snet.net


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release Date: 7/2/2007
3:35 PM

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Thu Jul 12 11:08:21 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:08:21 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR mileage
In-Reply-To: <466FE632.901@dol.net>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D164B9@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

I tried a search and failed . . .

Anyone know what kind of mileage the Nacar boyz are getting?  Restrictor
plate/non?

Fuel lines? AN-6, AN-10 or AN-eleventeen?


Thanks

David in Durango

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 12 11:12:07 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:12:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Can anyone confirm this?  Not LSR
In-Reply-To: <001301c7c4a5$90ca3f50$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <185430.91399.qm@web30712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yep, it's a fact, Wes.  I raced outboard hydroplanes way back in the early fifties.  Back then, racers steered with their left hand and throttles were on the right side.  That was to allow the racer to shift his weight and push down with his right elbo to balance the boat on the straight aways.
   
  DickJ
  In east Texas 

ddahlgren at snet.net wrote:
  He is right.. Most racing boats have twin engines so one prop cancels
the other.. And if a real race boat you need a throttle man as well..If
not like a hydroplane center steer.. BTW racing boats literally fly and
the only thing in the water is the prop..
Dave

 
---------------------------------
 Get your own web address.
 Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

From Flowbench at aol.com  Thu Jul 12 11:18:24 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:18:24 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR mileage
Message-ID: <c2d.14e1a267.33c7bc60@aol.com>

3.75 to 4.25 mpg is about what they get.



**************************************
 Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at 
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From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Thu Jul 12 11:24:19 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:24:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON lsr  Company cars
Message-ID: <1896C57B4D664004BD6DCC02E5C40E34@LMS>

Guys, guys---it "ant" about the racin it's about "the show" ---

THE SHOW STARTS 30 DAYS!!!!!!

      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 11:35:54 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:35:54 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Ford=27s_Hydrogen_999_racer_shooting_?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?for_fuel_cell_land_speed_record_=BB_Hybrid_News?=
References: <30085065.1184255377777.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<469659EE.4090007@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <003301c7c4ab$1bdf01c0$6501a8c0@S>

Mayf--
Sounds good on paper; but who's going to want to tell his crew and
especially the people who bankroll his effort for a publicity return that he
waited for shorter lines and got an event killing thunderstorm and 4 inches
of water on the Salt instead or project problems that took more than 3 days
to solve after the first run?
OK, GM had their chance to get a good reputation and ended up with some egg
on their face.  Now it's Ford's turn.  They pretty much blew it when the
universities like UC Davis handed them hybrid technology on a silver platter
in the early 90's annual competitions.  We'll get a chance in our own
"house" to see if they've managed to shed any of the hubris that seems to
grow like weeds around Detroit.
These things always make an interesting study.  I hope the layers of Ford
management directly involved will listen to Rick and not just treat him like
just another hired gun to be used and discarded when it's convenient.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
land speed record ; Hybrid News


> heck, JD, I am gonna yell *with* you! ..............Another thing they
could do to help
> the rest of us, is to show up for the last 3 or 4 days only. A lot of
> folk have gone home by then, hardly any tech line at all, no big crowds,
> yet the publicity woud still be there.
>
> mayf

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Thu Jul 12 11:37:50 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:37:50 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Can anyone confirm this?  Not LSR
Message-ID: <bd5.127e609f.33c7c0ee@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/12/07 1:17:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
lsr_man at yahoo.com writes:

Yep, it's a fact, Wes.  I raced outboard hydroplanes way back in the early 
fifties.  Back then, racers steered with their left hand and throttles were on 
the right side.  That was to allow the racer to shift his weight and push down 
with his right elbo to balance the boat on the straight aways.

DickJ
In east Texas 

Are you sure this doesn't go back to the days of righthanded sword fighting & 
pistol duels? Bob in connecticut



************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From webmaster at landracing.com  Thu Jul 12 11:40:29 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:40:29 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <469659EE.4090007@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEAEDGDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

I would have to disagree with some of this.

As far as I know they only have 3 or 4 rooms. I dont really call that
sucking up the rooms.
Why would they hold up prestage or staging? I have seen more holups from
your average racer, who wasnt ready, misfired, or didnt start, or had to do
a last minute change.
I have seen more people around, watching, helping and crowding a vehicle on
Teague's car then almost anybody. Did anybody bitch? NOPE. The Brits with
the Andy Green had a hell of a lot of people, they didnt hold up the lines
that I saw, they waited their turn like everybody else.. (exception to the
100 mph run on long course for all the miles).
I would assume Ford hopes to gain the same thing you are there for, run
their race vehicle down the track. Why limit them to the last 3 or 4 days.
That is a joke. They paid their entry as everybody else did. I hope they
make 50 passes. Would they hold up the lines anymore then a no-start vehicle
that is next in line? Which happens every year. I would almost put dinner
that they wont be holding up any lines, and the crowds will be the
spectators and not the crew...

And you say armwaved thru tech, so the rest of the racers can get thru
faster? Come on,, are you serious, every new vehicle on the salt gets a
complete and second look tech inspection... Same way you got one when you
brought the sunbeam..

Rick Im sure has a game plan, and has explained it very well to them...

Mayf, just seems like in your post, (and my opinion) that they are less of a
race team then you are, and with that you get more privlage then them???

Jon


Mayf Wrote.
heck, JD, I am gonna yell *with* you! In fact, I hope Rick takes your
message and shows it to the people in charge of the project to show them
what kind of reception they may get if they suck up all the rooms, if
they hold up the prestaging and staging lines for stuff other than
getting ready to run and the annoyance of having 50 people running
around "helping". As you said with more than 500 entries, it is gonna be
difficult to get to drive.  I am not sure exactly what Ford hopes to
gain (but I am glad for Rick!!) but seems to me that they could have
done this better on the autobahn or a test track somewhere. SO the
reason is publicity and that always means a crowd.  Rick says they have
worked with SCTA to assure no glitches and I guess that means no
surprises in tech/safety. Maybe it should just be armwaved through since
it is for time only. That would at least help the rest of us through
tech by them getting out of the way. Another thing they could do to help
the rest of us, is to show up for the last 3 or 4 days only. A lot of
folk have gone home by then, hardly any tech line at all, no big crowds,
yet the publicity woud still be there.

mayf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 12 12:08:48 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:08:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Can anyone confirm this?  Not LSR
In-Reply-To: <001301c7c4a5$90ca3f50$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
References: <001301c7c4a5$90ca3f50$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <46966E30.50408@mayfco.com>

My old drag boat had a spiffy Italian racing prop and was a hydroplane. 
The only things touching th ewater after lift off was the back edges of 
the sponsons and the transome a littl ebit. For a first timer, sponson 
walk, was a bit scary at speed...

mayf
ddahlgren at snet.net wrote:

>He is right.. Most racing boats have twin engines so one prop cancels
>the other.. And if a real race boat you need a throttle man as well..If
>not like a hydroplane center steer.. BTW racing boats literally fly and
>the only thing in the water is the prop..
>Dave
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
>Of Wester Potter
>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:43 PM
>To: list LSR
>Subject: [Land-speed] Can anyone confirm this? Not LSR
>
>
>Question was why are boat steering wheels on the right side?  This was
>the answer posted by one respondent.
>
>Boat propellers turn clockwise, sez Leon, and hulls used to be designed
>in such a way that when there was torque on the prop, the right side of
>the boat would rise up. So the wheel was put on the right, so the
>weight of these "healthy sized" fishermen would counteract that. As
>long as they didn't put the beer cooler on the left, which would throw
>everything off. This is not a problem with modern hulls, but the design
>stuck. Racing boats, however usually have the wheel on the left, like
>American cars.
>_______________________________________________

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul 12 13:28:13 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:28:13 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEAEDGDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <007001c7c4ba$cab529e0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Rick is also a retired Ford Engineer, he knows what to do.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell 
land speed record > Hybrid News


>I would have to disagree with some of this.
>
> As far as I know they only have 3 or 4 rooms. I dont really call that
> sucking up the rooms.
> Why would they hold up prestage or staging? I have seen more holups from
> your average racer, who wasnt ready, misfired, or didnt start, or had to 
> do
> a last minute change.
> I have seen more people around, watching, helping and crowding a vehicle 
> on
> Teague's car then almost anybody. Did anybody bitch? NOPE. The Brits with
> the Andy Green had a hell of a lot of people, they didnt hold up the lines
> that I saw, they waited their turn like everybody else.. (exception to the
> 100 mph run on long course for all the miles).
> I would assume Ford hopes to gain the same thing you are there for, run
> their race vehicle down the track. Why limit them to the last 3 or 4 days.
> That is a joke. They paid their entry as everybody else did. I hope they
> make 50 passes. Would they hold up the lines anymore then a no-start 
> vehicle
> that is next in line? Which happens every year. I would almost put dinner
> that they wont be holding up any lines, and the crowds will be the
> spectators and not the crew...
>
> And you say armwaved thru tech, so the rest of the racers can get thru
> faster? Come on,, are you serious, every new vehicle on the salt gets a
> complete and second look tech inspection... Same way you got one when you
> brought the sunbeam..
>
> Rick Im sure has a game plan, and has explained it very well to them...
>
> Mayf, just seems like in your post, (and my opinion) that they are less of 
> a
> race team then you are, and with that you get more privlage then them???
>
> Jon
>
>
> Mayf Wrote.
> heck, JD, I am gonna yell *with* you! In fact, I hope Rick takes your
> message and shows it to the people in charge of the project to show them
> what kind of reception they may get if they suck up all the rooms, if
> they hold up the prestaging and staging lines for stuff other than
> getting ready to run and the annoyance of having 50 people running
> around "helping". As you said with more than 500 entries, it is gonna be
> difficult to get to drive.  I am not sure exactly what Ford hopes to
> gain (but I am glad for Rick!!) but seems to me that they could have
> done this better on the autobahn or a test track somewhere. SO the
> reason is publicity and that always means a crowd.  Rick says they have
> worked with SCTA to assure no glitches and I guess that means no
> surprises in tech/safety. Maybe it should just be armwaved through since
> it is for time only. That would at least help the rest of us through
> tech by them getting out of the way. Another thing they could do to help
> the rest of us, is to show up for the last 3 or 4 days only. A lot of
> folk have gone home by then, hardly any tech line at all, no big crowds,
> yet the publicity woud still be there.
>
> mayf

From webmaster at landracing.com  Thu Jul 12 14:42:02 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:42:02 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <4696760D.6040000@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEMEDHDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Mayf,

"And this is not a race vehicle. It is a PR vehicle."

Really... I guess the full roll cage, the lowering of the vehicle, the
extensive wind tunnel work, the fire systems, the tires etc etc are all for
show and were just done for appearance looks to the consumer, doubt it...
Just as much a race vehicle as your sunbeam. I guess Im ready to go head to
head with the good Dr. to argue this one... All in good fun Dr. Mayf...

"The point is that none of us really know how to inspect the car except for
the normal IC engine stuff."

Really... So the SCTA inspectors have never inspected a turbine powered
vehicle, an electric vehicle and a hydrogen powered vehicle before... Not
true...

"What about fire safety? Who is going to know how to fight that battle if it
gets on fire?"

Make sure the safety pressure valves work, in event of fire you must have to
see it first, keep a straw broom handy since it burns pale blue and may by
hard to detect, have an outside source for turning off hydrogen valve to
stop flow of gas, keep storage tank cool by spraying water on it, and do not
put the fire out they say let it burn out. IF it needs to be out NOW, any
type of firefighting agent will work, dry powder suggested.

Sure maybe not all your questions are answered, and maybe not to your
liking, but the answers are out there, and im sure somebody has done their
homework. It could be the Fire and Ambulance emergency crews already know
about what is being run on the salt and have done their homework.. I guess
we could test them and ask them if they have a broom...

Jon

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul 12 14:59:49 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:59:49 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEMEDHDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <00a701c7c4c7$9953a400$6401a8c0@Glens>

All of the safety issues with these Hydrogen vehicles have been addressed 
and they will be in their own pit section during speed week. Roy Creel is 
the fire guy that has been involved and the ERT's will be aware of what to 
expect from the vehicles. The people behind these vehicles know what to do 
and have the necessary equipment to handle any emergency in the pit area. I 
am sure there will be restrictions to the vehicles from the spectators and 
racers. Lets work with them and help where we can. I hope all goes well and 
they run fast.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell 
land speed record > Hybrid News


> Mayf,
>
> "And this is not a race vehicle. It is a PR vehicle."
>
> Really... I guess the full roll cage, the lowering of the vehicle, the
> extensive wind tunnel work, the fire systems, the tires etc etc are all 
> for
> show and were just done for appearance looks to the consumer, doubt it...
> Just as much a race vehicle as your sunbeam. I guess Im ready to go head 
> to
> head with the good Dr. to argue this one... All in good fun Dr. Mayf...
>
> "The point is that none of us really know how to inspect the car except 
> for
> the normal IC engine stuff."
>
> Really... So the SCTA inspectors have never inspected a turbine powered
> vehicle, an electric vehicle and a hydrogen powered vehicle before... Not
> true...
>
> "What about fire safety? Who is going to know how to fight that battle if 
> it
> gets on fire?"
>
> Make sure the safety pressure valves work, in event of fire you must have 
> to
> see it first, keep a straw broom handy since it burns pale blue and may by
> hard to detect, have an outside source for turning off hydrogen valve to
> stop flow of gas, keep storage tank cool by spraying water on it, and do 
> not
> put the fire out they say let it burn out. IF it needs to be out NOW, any
> type of firefighting agent will work, dry powder suggested.
>
> Sure maybe not all your questions are answered, and maybe not to your
> liking, but the answers are out there, and im sure somebody has done their
> homework. It could be the Fire and Ambulance emergency crews already know
> about what is being run on the salt and have done their homework.. I guess
> we could test them and ask them if they have a broom...
>
> Jon
> _______________________________________________

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 12 15:07:24 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:07:24 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
Message-ID: <28615507.1184274444457.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I agree with Glen, Rick knows what to do there is no question with that. If the starter/tower stops the other 2 courses when this car is running we will all know whether they are holding up the meet or not. They will on the short/short course for a few runs anyway. 

Some cars are inspected in the pits. nuf said on that. Hopefully they will take a back pit. Can you imagine how many "guest/spectator" cars will be around it?

For Jon: Yes, it's built as a race vehicle and will meet the rules I'm sure. Will it race...IMO Not much...It will be a PR car like all the concepts, etc..It that OK, you bet. Personally I hope they do good, go fast, and give Rick a safe ride.

Who gave up #999? 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 12 15:13:44 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:13:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEEEDHDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEEEDHDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <46969988.2080200@mayfco.com>

Jon, sounds like you have volunteered to inspect the car! Great!  I am 
sure that you will do a good job. Not me, I have a pretty extensive 
engineering background and I don't know squat about fuel cells, except 
that one blew the side out of one of the lunar missions and the mission 
had to be scrubbed (or was that Skylab?).  Now I gotta tell you, that 
that vehicle received more inspections and safety reviews than anything 
that has ever run on the salt or ever will, and it still failed 
disasterously. Now the point of the fire is good but when do you use the 
broom? After you have burned the dookey out of yourself? Are you 
qualified to inspect pressure relief valves? Do you know how they are 
certified? And what happens inside a cell when the flow of electricity 
is cut off? Does the reaction continue? Does it get hot (you bet it 
does!).   If there is a possiblity of explosion after an upset, how long 
does the fire crew wait to get the driver out?  With turbines and 
gasoline and electricity from batteries, these are common things to 
react to. Fuel cells are not. And on the flip side they may be as safe 
as anyhing we ever use. BUt there is no experience with them.

Now another odd part to this and actually any corporate program car 
entered. The rules say the owner and the driver must both be BNI 
members. Now Rick, in this case is for sure a member, but who signs for 
the owner? Not Rick, he is not culpable in any lawsuit. So who is? Is 
the owner a lawyer from the law staff? Did Mr. JCB sign for the Diesel 
Max? How about the GM cars? No, I don't really care, this is just the 
odd question..   I would think that if FOrd is gonna claim 
respponsibility for the "record" then Mmaybe my Boein compatriot Allan 
Mullaly should sign as th eresponsibel owner... Yeah, that ain't ever 
gonna happen is it... It would be interesting to trace the ownership of 
the vehicle.... just to see who is accountable.

mayf
Jon Amo wrote:

>"And this is not a race vehicle. It is a PR vehicle."
>
>Really... I guess the full roll cage, the lowering of the vehicle, the
>extensive wind tunnel work, the fire systems, the tires etc etc are all for
>show and were just done for appearance looks to the consumer, doubt it...
>Just as much a race vehicle as your sunbeam. I guess Im ready to go head to
>head with the good Dr. to argue this one... All in good fun Dr. Mayf...
>
>"The point is that none of us really know how to inspect the car except for
>the normal IC engine stuff."
>
>Really... So the SCTA inspectors have never inspected a turbine powered
>vehicle, an electric vehicle and a hydrogen powered vehicle before... Not
>true...
>
>"What about fire safety? Who is going to know how to fight that battle if it
>gets on fire?"
>
>Make sure the safety pressure valves work, in event of fire you must have to
>see it first, keep a straw broom handy since it burns pale blue and may by
>hard to detect, have an outside source for turning off hydrogen valve to
>stop flow of gas, keep storage tank cool by spraying water on it, and do not
>put the fire out they say let it burn out. IF it needs to be out NOW, any
>type of firefighting agent will work, dry powder suggested.
>
>Sure maybe not all your questions are answered, and maybe not to your
>liking, but the answers are out there, and im sure somebody has done their
>homework. It could be the Fire and Ambulance emergency crews already know
>about what is being run on the salt and have done their homework.. I guess
>we could test them and ask them if they have a broom...
>
>Jon

From gary at arrowracing.org  Thu Jul 12 15:36:24 2007
From: gary at arrowracing.org (Gary C. Hensley)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:36:24 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Fuel Cell Car
Message-ID: <004901c7c4cc$b2c5d2f0$1200a8c0@Presario2100>

To Ford's and Roush's credit they asked a couple of us local LSR types to
help out. This included advice on LSR educate.
 
Gary C Hensley
Phone: 248-670-0883 
Team Arrow Racing #1150B 
World Land Speed Record Holder
S-G-650  210.728 mph August 21, 2004
Fastest 500 cc Motorcycle on the Planet 228.559mph August 18, 2006 
HYPERLINK "http://www.arrowracing.org/"http://www.arrowracing.org/
 

 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007
5:44 PM

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of att3c23a.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of tech.gif]

From webmaster at landracing.com  Thu Jul 12 15:38:11 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:38:11 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <28615507.1184274444457.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEIEDJDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Sam Wheeler gave up #999 for speedweek, for them to run... The story behind
that is significant in that the very first race car Ford Motor Co ever did was
old 999 done by Henry Ford himself....

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: James Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:07 PM
To: webmaster at landracing.com; drmayf at mayfco.com
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
cell land speed record > Hybrid News


I agree with Glen, Rick knows what to do there is no question with that. If
the starter/tower stops the other 2 courses when this car is running we will
all know whether they are holding up the meet or not. They will on the
short/short course for a few runs anyway.

Some cars are inspected in the pits. nuf said on that. Hopefully they will
take a back pit. Can you imagine how many "guest/spectator" cars will be
around it?

For Jon: Yes, it's built as a race vehicle and will meet the rules I'm sure.
Will it race...IMO Not much...It will be a PR car like all the concepts,
etc..It that OK, you bet. Personally I hope they do good, go fast, and give
Rick a safe ride.

Who gave up #999?

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul 12 15:42:45 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:42:45 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEIEDJDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <00c001c7c4cd$95d62e50$6401a8c0@Glens>

Makes sense, besides Sam's a true gentleman.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
To: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell 
land speed record > Hybrid News


> Sam Wheeler gave up #999 for speedweek, for them to run... The story 
> behind
> that is significant in that the very first race car Ford Motor Co ever did 
> was
> old 999 done by Henry Ford himself....
>
> Jon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:07 PM
> To: webmaster at landracing.com; drmayf at mayfco.com
> Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
> cell land speed record > Hybrid News
>
>
> I agree with Glen, Rick knows what to do there is no question with that. 
> If
> the starter/tower stops the other 2 courses when this car is running we 
> will
> all know whether they are holding up the meet or not. They will on the
> short/short course for a few runs anyway.
>
> Some cars are inspected in the pits. nuf said on that. Hopefully they will
> take a back pit. Can you imagine how many "guest/spectator" cars will be
> around it?
>
> For Jon: Yes, it's built as a race vehicle and will meet the rules I'm 
> sure.
> Will it race...IMO Not much...It will be a PR car like all the concepts,
> etc..It that OK, you bet. Personally I hope they do good, go fast, and 
> give
> Rick a safe ride.
>
> Who gave up #999?
> _______________________________________________

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul 12 15:48:01 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:48:01 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEMEDHDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <00c701c7c4ce$52372040$6401a8c0@Glens>

Makes me think back to the Electric streamliner the Japanese brought over 
and they had their own rescue guy is a rubber suit because of the chance of 
electrocution. We were told after it ran not to approach the vehicle in case 
it was still hot. It never got off the starting line anyway.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell 
land speed record > Hybrid News


> Mayf,
>
> "And this is not a race vehicle. It is a PR vehicle."
>
> Really... I guess the full roll cage, the lowering of the vehicle, the
> extensive wind tunnel work, the fire systems, the tires etc etc are all 
> for
> show and were just done for appearance looks to the consumer, doubt it...
> Just as much a race vehicle as your sunbeam. I guess Im ready to go head 
> to
> head with the good Dr. to argue this one... All in good fun Dr. Mayf...
>
> "The point is that none of us really know how to inspect the car except 
> for
> the normal IC engine stuff."
>
> Really... So the SCTA inspectors have never inspected a turbine powered
> vehicle, an electric vehicle and a hydrogen powered vehicle before... Not
> true...
>
> "What about fire safety? Who is going to know how to fight that battle if 
> it
> gets on fire?"
>
> Make sure the safety pressure valves work, in event of fire you must have 
> to
> see it first, keep a straw broom handy since it burns pale blue and may by
> hard to detect, have an outside source for turning off hydrogen valve to
> stop flow of gas, keep storage tank cool by spraying water on it, and do 
> not
> put the fire out they say let it burn out. IF it needs to be out NOW, any
> type of firefighting agent will work, dry powder suggested.
>
> Sure maybe not all your questions are answered, and maybe not to your
> liking, but the answers are out there, and im sure somebody has done their
> homework. It could be the Fire and Ambulance emergency crews already know
> about what is being run on the salt and have done their homework.. I guess
> we could test them and ask them if they have a broom...
>
> Jon

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 15:56:19 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:56:19 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] So Ford and Ohio Sstate ...
Message-ID: <071220072156.13162.4696A383000106610000336A2200734830CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

I'm hearing a lot of comments on the Ford entry but nothing about the Ohio State Buckeye Bullet that is running the same technology.  They had an air conditioning unit for their batteries the last time they were on the salt.  That was quite the entourage at the starting line.  They are salt veterans, record holders and supposedly are going to be as quick as any other car.  Consider though, that this is a student effort, the team will change due to graduation and the team leader is probably the only constant in the crew.  I don't know who the driver will be this year but I'm guessing he has the licensing runs taken care of.  Will they hold up lines?  Who knows. 

Wes

From webmaster at landracing.com  Thu Jul 12 15:56:25 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:56:25 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <00c701c7c4ce$52372040$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEKEDKDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Glen,

It got off the starting line, just only went a few think If I remember... I
remember the electric streamliner like it was yesterday...The crane they had
to get it off the flatbed on the salt... And talk about a huge crew... We
camped at KOA that year and I had some of them drawing pictures of it on
napkins about the internals... The owner went back and I heard was viewed as
failure went backrupt and not really heard from again. The Kenwood Electric
Car.

jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:48 PM
To: webmaster at landracing.com; drmayf at mayfco.com
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net; Rick Byrnes
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
cell land speed record > Hybrid News


Makes me think back to the Electric streamliner the Japanese brought over
and they had their own rescue guy is a rubber suit because of the chance of
electrocution. We were told after it ran not to approach the vehicle in case
it was still hot. It never got off the starting line anyway.
Glen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
land speed record > Hybrid News


> Mayf,
>
> "And this is not a race vehicle. It is a PR vehicle."
>
> Really... I guess the full roll cage, the lowering of the vehicle, the
> extensive wind tunnel work, the fire systems, the tires etc etc are all
> for
> show and were just done for appearance looks to the consumer, doubt it...
> Just as much a race vehicle as your sunbeam. I guess Im ready to go head
> to
> head with the good Dr. to argue this one... All in good fun Dr. Mayf...
>
> "The point is that none of us really know how to inspect the car except
> for
> the normal IC engine stuff."
>
> Really... So the SCTA inspectors have never inspected a turbine powered
> vehicle, an electric vehicle and a hydrogen powered vehicle before... Not
> true...
>
> "What about fire safety? Who is going to know how to fight that battle if
> it
> gets on fire?"
>
> Make sure the safety pressure valves work, in event of fire you must have
> to
> see it first, keep a straw broom handy since it burns pale blue and may by
> hard to detect, have an outside source for turning off hydrogen valve to
> stop flow of gas, keep storage tank cool by spraying water on it, and do
> not
> put the fire out they say let it burn out. IF it needs to be out NOW, any
> type of firefighting agent will work, dry powder suggested.
>
> Sure maybe not all your questions are answered, and maybe not to your
> liking, but the answers are out there, and im sure somebody has done their
> homework. It could be the Fire and Ambulance emergency crews already know
> about what is being run on the salt and have done their homework.. I guess
> we could test them and ask them if they have a broom...
>
> Jon

From Askotto at aol.com  Thu Jul 12 15:59:37 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:59:37 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR mileage
Message-ID: <c2f.17f57976.33c7fe49@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/12/2007 11:08:48 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
DavidAdin at mercydurango.org writes:

Fuel  lines? AN-6, AN-10 or AN-eleventeen?


Thanks

David in  Durango




Hi David
 
AN-10 leading into the mechanical fuel pump and AN-6 coming out through the  
filter and into the carb's dual feeds.
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 16:01:37 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:01:37 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
Message-ID: <071220072201.17111.4696A4C1000D1DE2000042D72200737478CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Great source of batteries for the racers who were there the day they packed it in.
That pyramid must have been ten betteries high at one time.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
> Glen,
> 
> It got off the starting line, just only went a few think If I remember... I
> remember the electric streamliner like it was yesterday...The crane they had
> to get it off the flatbed on the salt... And talk about a huge crew... We
> camped at KOA that year and I had some of them drawing pictures of it on
> napkins about the internals... The owner went back and I heard was viewed as
> failure went backrupt and not really heard from again. The Kenwood Electric
> Car.
> 
> jon

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul 12 16:05:18 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:05:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
References: <071220072201.17111.4696A4C1000D1DE2000042D72200737478CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00d601c7c4d0$bcbc09b0$6401a8c0@Glens>

I still have one in the garage Wes.Jon I know it attempted to make a run 
but a few feet don't count. It was driven around later though on the 
starting area before the rain.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <wester6935 at comcast.net>
To: <webmaster at landracing.com>; "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; 
<drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Rick 
Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell 
land speed record > Hybrid News


> Great source of batteries for the racers who were there the day they 
> packed it in.
> That pyramid must have been ten betteries high at one time.
>
> Wes
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
>> Glen,
>>
>> It got off the starting line, just only went a few think If I remember... 
>> I
>> remember the electric streamliner like it was yesterday...The crane they 
>> had
>> to get it off the flatbed on the salt... And talk about a huge crew... We
>> camped at KOA that year and I had some of them drawing pictures of it on
>> napkins about the internals... The owner went back and I heard was viewed 
>> as
>> failure went backrupt and not really heard from again. The Kenwood 
>> Electric
>> Car.
>>
>> jon

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 16:16:16 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:16:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEKEDKDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <008301c7c4d2$46b98c90$6501a8c0@S>

I had mixed feelings about the Kenwood Electric Car effort; but in the end I
really felt bad for them when one of our infamous thunderstorms added insult
to their agony and a miserable mess of a pit setup to pack up and move out.
With some luck with our weather this year the first time guys from Ford
won't have to go through that.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
land speed record > Hybrid News


> Glen,
> It got off the starting line, just only went a few think If I remember...
I
> remember the electric streamliner like it was yesterday...The crane they
had
> to get it off the flatbed on the salt... And talk about a huge crew... We
> camped at KOA that year and I had some of them drawing pictures of it on
> napkins about the internals... The owner went back and I heard was viewed
as
> failure went backrupt and not really heard from again. The Kenwood
Electric
> Car.
> jon

From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Jul 12 16:17:04 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:17:04 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
Message-ID: <W785614302234511184278624@webmail4>

Legend has it that salt got in the motor and shorted it out..... true or rumor?
Ed

>-----Original Message-----
>From: wester6935 at comcast.net [mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net]
>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 03:01 PM
>To: webmaster at landracing.com, 'Glen Barrett', drmayf at mayfco.com
>Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net, 'Rick Byrnes'
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell land speed record > Hybrid News
>
>Great source of batteries for the racers who were there the day they packed it in.
>That pyramid must have been ten betteries high at one time.
>
>Wes

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul 12 16:21:41 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:21:41 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
References: <W785614302234511184278624@webmail4>
Message-ID: <013501c7c4d3$06062cc0$6401a8c0@Glens>

I heard it was a relay or circuit breaker that failed. That was a long time
ago Ed, so I could be wrong.
Glen
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: ed at vetteracing.com
  To: wester6935 at comcast.net ; webmaster at landracing.com ; Glen Barrett ;
drmayf at mayfco.com
  Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net ; Rick Byrnes
  Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
land speed record > Hybrid News


  Legend has it that salt got in the motor and shorted it out..... true or
rumor?
  Ed

  >-----Original Message-----
  >From: wester6935 at comcast.net [mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net]
  >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 03:01 PM
  >To: webmaster at landracing.com, 'Glen Barrett', drmayf at mayfco.com
  >Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net, 'Rick Byrnes'
  >Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
land speed record > Hybrid News
  >
  >Great source of batteries for the racers who were there the day they packed
it in.
  >That pyramid must have been ten betteries high at one time.
  >
  >Wes

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 12 17:29:38 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:29:38 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed rec
In-Reply-To: <28615507.1184274444457.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F329391C5533A5DBEF59984D9FC0@phx.gbl>

            JD,



                " Who gave up #999 ? "




                  BARNEY OLDFIELD


         " your HYDROGEN may vary "

  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -50 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one

  -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,
                          Cold Beer, Fast Cars, an' Warm Willin' Wimin'


  ------------------------------------- oooo 
--------------------------------------




From: James Tone <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
Reply-To: James Tone <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: webmaster at landracing.com, drmayf at mayfco.com
CC: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell 
land speed record > Hybrid News
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:07:24 -0700 (GMT-07:00)

I agree with Glen, Rick knows what to do there is no question with that. If 
the starter/tower stops the other 2 courses when this car is running we will 
all know whether they are holding up the meet or not. They will on the 
short/short course for a few runs anyway.

Some cars are inspected in the pits. nuf said on that. Hopefully they will 
take a back pit. Can you imagine how many "guest/spectator" cars will be 
around it?

For Jon: Yes, it's built as a race vehicle and will meet the rules I'm sure. 
Will it race...IMO Not much...It will be a PR car like all the concepts, 
etc..It that OK, you bet. Personally I hope they do good, go fast, and give 
Rick a safe ride.

Who gave up #999?

_________________________________________________________________
Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!  
http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 17:47:19 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:47:19 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Fossett Update July 11
Message-ID: <071220072347.18938.4696BD87000BBBF2000049FA2206424613CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Thanks to Ron for this.

Wes

-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: "Ron Christensen" <ron.christensen at wsapr.com>
To: <larry at rockymountainracedeck.com>, "Win Phelps" <win359 at yahoo.com>, "W S Potter" <wester6935 at comcast.net>, "Stieg Svard" <axel_rod at msn.com>, "Sandra Haney" <haneyss at yahoo.com>, "Lynn Shepherd" <olshep48 at yahoo.com>, <jon at infodestruction.com>, <hcgarage at comcast.net>, "Gary Donahoe" <gdonahoe at earthlink.com>, "Dave Pinkney" <pinkelko at yahoo.com>, "'Barrie Strachan'" <dgdsh at bresnan.net>, "'Robert Green'" <robminil7 at mac.com>
Subject: Fossett Update July 11
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:18:18 +0000
>  
> 
> www.stevefossett.com
> 
> It was updated yesterday with some news!

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 12 18:13:42 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:13:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Rule Question...
Message-ID: <4696C3B6.7090804@mayfco.com>

As ya'll know I am on th e look out for a small turbocharged car that I 
can let my wife drive. I am looking for a 1987/1988 Chevrolet Turbo 
Sprint or on eof the variants as sold in Canada. But, now in rereading 
the rules, para 5.E.2, something has popped up and I would like a 
clarification on... the rule says the "vehicle shall be as originally 
equipped and configured e.g. if it comes with two  (2) superchargers, it 
shall have two (2) superchargers."  The part about as "originally 
equipped" is the root of my question. Does this mean that if I had a car 
with a very small turbo from the factory and wanted to install a bigger 
turbo that I could not do it?   What about an intercooler?  It had one 
about the size of a postage stamp, lol, but I was thinking of water to 
air type. That would be key to making one of these dinky suckers run 
fairly fast.  Are there any other thoughts I should consider before 
jumping off the deep end here (yeah, I know some of ya want me to do 
that...and with an anchor tied around my neck, lol)?

Dan, anybody else in the know know the answer here?  Any more thoughts?

mayf

From webmaster at landracing.com  Thu Jul 12 18:15:11 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:15:11 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <46969988.2080200@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEMEDMDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Mayf,
"I have a pretty extensive engineering background and I don't know squat
about fuel cells, except that one blew the side out of one of the lunar
missions and the mission had to be scrubbed (or was that Skylab?)."

Wasn't that from an oxygen tank stir on Apollo 13????

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:14 PM
To: webmaster at landracing.com
Cc: James Tone; land-speed at autox.team.net; Rick Byrnes
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
cell land speed record > Hybrid News


Jon, sounds like you have volunteered to inspect the car! Great!  I am
sure that you will do a good job. Not me, I have a pretty extensive
engineering background and I don't know squat about fuel cells, except
that one blew the side out of one of the lunar missions and the mission
had to be scrubbed (or was that Skylab?).  Now I gotta tell you, that
that vehicle received more inspections and safety reviews than anything
that has ever run on the salt or ever will, and it still failed
disasterously. Now the point of the fire is good but when do you use the
broom? After you have burned the dookey out of yourself? Are you
qualified to inspect pressure relief valves? Do you know how they are
certified? And what happens inside a cell when the flow of electricity
is cut off? Does the reaction continue? Does it get hot (you bet it
does!).   If there is a possiblity of explosion after an upset, how long
does the fire crew wait to get the driver out?  With turbines and
gasoline and electricity from batteries, these are common things to
react to. Fuel cells are not. And on the flip side they may be as safe
as anyhing we ever use. BUt there is no experience with them.

Now another odd part to this and actually any corporate program car
entered. The rules say the owner and the driver must both be BNI
members. Now Rick, in this case is for sure a member, but who signs for
the owner? Not Rick, he is not culpable in any lawsuit. So who is? Is
the owner a lawyer from the law staff? Did Mr. JCB sign for the Diesel
Max? How about the GM cars? No, I don't really care, this is just the
odd question..   I would think that if FOrd is gonna claim
respponsibility for the "record" then Mmaybe my Boein compatriot Allan
Mullaly should sign as th eresponsibel owner... Yeah, that ain't ever
gonna happen is it... It would be interesting to trace the ownership of
the vehicle.... just to see who is accountable.

mayf

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 18:25:49 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:25:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  FW: Fossett Update July 11
Message-ID: <009601c7c4e4$5ee59400$6501a8c0@S>

Sounds like it would be a good idea to minimize human activity in the area
that Steve Fosset plans to use.  Assuming a location will be known before
Speedweek, hopefully SCTA/BNI and later USFRA will be in a position to
minimize that intrusion from curious or even unknowing participants and
spectators at our events.  If the location is deemed to best be kept secret
we ought to urge everyone to try to stay reasonable close to our marked
roads during the course of our events even if it means having to put up with
traffic or slusshy spots in the salt.  I'd also suggest a bit of effort on
everyone's part to keep trash, especially big stuff, from getting picked up
by the wind.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <wester6935 at comcast.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:47 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Fossett Update July 11

> www.stevefossett.com
> Thanks to Ron for this.
> Wes

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 12 19:04:33 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:04:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  FW: Fossett Update July 11
In-Reply-To: <009601c7c4e4$5ee59400$6501a8c0@S>
References: <009601c7c4e4$5ee59400$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <4696CFA1.7010309@mayfco.com>

Sounds like betweens SW and WOS? There is less than a three week window 
there.  Is SCTA providing the timing and race course activities? Man, I 
would want more than 12 miles... Whay do they wan tto test here? Why not 
Black Rock? Longer and safer there, isn't it? But then dirt creates 
rolling resistance... Be nice to be a fly on the wall...

mayf
Ed Weldon wrote:

>Sounds like it would be a good idea to minimize human activity in the area
>that Steve Fosset plans to use.  Assuming a location will be known before
>Speedweek, hopefully SCTA/BNI and later USFRA will be in a position to
>minimize that intrusion from curious or even unknowing participants and
>spectators at our events.  If the location is deemed to best be kept secret
>we ought to urge everyone to try to stay reasonable close to our marked
>roads during the course of our events even if it means having to put up with
>traffic or slusshy spots in the salt.  I'd also suggest a bit of effort on
>everyone's part to keep trash, especially big stuff, from getting picked up
>by the wind.
>Ed Weldon
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <wester6935 at comcast.net>
>To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:47 PM
>Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Fossett Update July 11
>
>  
>
>>www.stevefossett.com
>>Thanks to Ron for this.
>>Wes
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 19:07:19 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 01:07:19 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  FW: Fossett Update July 11
Message-ID: <071320070107.5581.4696D04700001750000015CD2206424613CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

I think they already have a long course dragged for Fosset.  Consider this ... 3 courses for Speedweek, two for World of Speed ... usually the same courses after a month to heal, Fosset's course, the Bub course and probably a long FIA attempt course for Burklands, Nish and Poteet.  I'd need pre-programmed coordinates in my GPS to find starting lines and course markings for all of those.  The long courses will likely have to cross other shorter courses.  There's going to have to be a serious attempt to keep the salt as pristine as possible by everyone who ventures off the access road.  Some dune byggey types have already left deep donuts off the end of the access road, tearing up the salt in that fragile area.  The mountain side of the salt is still wet a long way down the normal access road's track.  The bottom line is; respect the area for whomever is coming after you.  This includes dumping of coolant and the drink coolers as well.  As much as you can, take your own trash off the
 salt rather than using the dumpsters where stuff can blow out.  Think of it as you being the next guy.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
> Sounds like it would be a good idea to minimize human activity in the area
> that Steve Fosset plans to use.  Assuming a location will be known before
> Speedweek, hopefully SCTA/BNI and later USFRA will be in a position to
> minimize that intrusion from curious or even unknowing participants and
> spectators at our events.  If the location is deemed to best be kept secret
> we ought to urge everyone to try to stay reasonable close to our marked
> roads during the course of our events even if it means having to put up with
> traffic or slusshy spots in the salt.  I'd also suggest a bit of effort on
> everyone's part to keep trash, especially big stuff, from getting picked up
> by the wind.
> Ed Weldon

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul 12 19:07:56 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:07:56 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  FW: Fossett Update July 11
References: <009601c7c4e4$5ee59400$6501a8c0@S> <4696CFA1.7010309@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <015d01c7c4ea$3fc5fdc0$6401a8c0@Glens>

The courses are laid out and SCTA & USFRA & Bub  all know the locations. Jon 
Amo was up there a couple of weeks ago and saw the markers. I don't think 
there will be a problem with anyone hurting the salt and where we run at 
speed week.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: FW: Fossett Update July 11


> Sounds like betweens SW and WOS? There is less than a three week window
> there.  Is SCTA providing the timing and race course activities? Man, I
> would want more than 12 miles... Whay do they wan tto test here? Why not
> Black Rock? Longer and safer there, isn't it? But then dirt creates
> rolling resistance... Be nice to be a fly on the wall...
>
> mayf
> Ed Weldon wrote:
>
>>Sounds like it would be a good idea to minimize human activity in the area
>>that Steve Fosset plans to use.  Assuming a location will be known before
>>Speedweek, hopefully SCTA/BNI and later USFRA will be in a position to
>>minimize that intrusion from curious or even unknowing participants and
>>spectators at our events.  If the location is deemed to best be kept 
>>secret
>>we ought to urge everyone to try to stay reasonable close to our marked
>>roads during the course of our events even if it means having to put up 
>>with
>>traffic or slusshy spots in the salt.  I'd also suggest a bit of effort on
>>everyone's part to keep trash, especially big stuff, from getting picked 
>>up
>>by the wind.
>>Ed Weldon
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: <wester6935 at comcast.net>
>>To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:47 PM
>>Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Fossett Update July 11
>>
>>
>>
>>>www.stevefossett.com
>>>Thanks to Ron for this.
>>>Wes
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 12 19:17:43 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:17:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  FW: Fossett Update July 11
In-Reply-To: <015d01c7c4ea$3fc5fdc0$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <009601c7c4e4$5ee59400$6501a8c0@S>
	<4696CFA1.7010309@mayfco.com> <015d01c7c4ea$3fc5fdc0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <4696D2B7.2060108@mayfco.com>

Jeeze, Glen, is the salt so good that we can't hurt it or is is it so 
bad nothing we can do will hurt it any more, lol... Have yo been up to 
check it out? I haven't heard from anyone on the condition as of now. 
How you doing in the heat? we have cooled back down to our normal temp 
range of meerly hotter than hell..

mayf
Glen Barrett wrote:

> The courses are laid out and SCTA & USFRA & Bub  all know the 
> locations. Jon Amo was up there a couple of weeks ago and saw the 
> markers. I don't think there will be a problem with anyone hurting the 
> salt and where we run at speed week.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: FW: Fossett Update July 11

From webmaster at landracing.com  Thu Jul 12 19:20:52 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:20:52 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  FW: Fossett Update July 11
In-Reply-To: <015d01c7c4ea$3fc5fdc0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEOEDODFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

GLen is correct. I was up there and saw the course that Fossett has marked
out. It runs to the right of the Speedweek Combo course #1. Right next to
it, not on it. And it starts approx two miles back from the Speedweek start.
I also dont think it runs on the international course, I think its close to
it but not on it. Fossett running there is great, the only thing I dont
think will do good is the skid brake, not sure about the effect of that on
the salt???
BLM has been on the SCTA/USFRA/BUB side when they were deciding on where he
could run. Part of it was he couldnt cross or run on any exisiting courses
that were being used... OR something close to that anyways..

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Glen Barrett
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:08 PM
To: drmayf at mayfco.com; Ed Weldon
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: FW: Fossett Update July 11


The courses are laid out and SCTA & USFRA & Bub  all know the locations. Jon
Amo was up there a couple of weeks ago and saw the markers. I don't think
there will be a problem with anyone hurting the salt and where we run at
speed week.
Glen
----- Original Message -----
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: FW: Fossett Update July 11


> Sounds like betweens SW and WOS? There is less than a three week window
> there.  Is SCTA providing the timing and race course activities? Man, I
> would want more than 12 miles... Whay do they wan tto test here? Why not
> Black Rock? Longer and safer there, isn't it? But then dirt creates
> rolling resistance... Be nice to be a fly on the wall...
>
> mayf
> Ed Weldon wrote:
>
>>Sounds like it would be a good idea to minimize human activity in the area
>>that Steve Fosset plans to use.  Assuming a location will be known before
>>Speedweek, hopefully SCTA/BNI and later USFRA will be in a position to
>>minimize that intrusion from curious or even unknowing participants and
>>spectators at our events.  If the location is deemed to best be kept
>>secret
>>we ought to urge everyone to try to stay reasonable close to our marked
>>roads during the course of our events even if it means having to put up
>>with
>>traffic or slusshy spots in the salt.  I'd also suggest a bit of effort on
>>everyone's part to keep trash, especially big stuff, from getting picked
>>up
>>by the wind.
>>Ed Weldon
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <wester6935 at comcast.net>
>>To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:47 PM
>>Subject: [Land-speed] FW: Fossett Update July 11
>>
>>
>>
>>>www.stevefossett.com
>>>Thanks to Ron for this.
>>>Wes
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
webmaster at landracing.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Jul 12 19:28:43 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:28:43 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  FW: Fossett Update July 11
References: <009601c7c4e4$5ee59400$6501a8c0@S>
	<4696CFA1.7010309@mayfco.com> <015d01c7c4ea$3fc5fdc0$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<4696D2B7.2060108@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <016a01c7c4ed$26ff3060$6401a8c0@Glens>

SCTA was there last week doing prep. Say the salt looks good. There is 
always a chance someone can screw it up but we are the first on the salt and 
as always we leave it clean and drug when we are done. I was in Vegas 
yesterday and it was about the heat as here, 107 or so. Should be up in the 
112 range next week. I going to El Mirage this week end to help time the 
meet.
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: FW: Fossett Update July 11


> Jeeze, Glen, is the salt so good that we can't hurt it or is is it so bad 
> nothing we can do will hurt it any more, lol... Have yo been up to check 
> it out? I haven't heard from anyone on the condition as of now. How you 
> doing in the heat? we have cooled back down to our normal temp range of 
> meerly hotter than hell..
>
> mayf
> Glen Barrett wrote:
>
>> The courses are laid out and SCTA & USFRA & Bub  all know the locations. 
>> Jon Amo was up there a couple of weeks ago and saw the markers. I don't 
>> think there will be a problem with anyone hurting the salt and where we 
>> run at speed week.
>> Glen
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>

From smsandimas at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 12 19:53:10 2007
From: smsandimas at earthlink.net (Steve Meierdiercks)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:53:10 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Rule Book Question !
Message-ID: <380-22007751315310328@earthlink.net>

   In the rule book under "3.R" Cooling System All liquid cooling systems
using non-braided circ. lines shall have metal clamps at each connection.I
have used on my cooling lines Russell "twist lok or push lok" fitting and
hose.The question being do I still have to use hose clamps on each
connection?

THANKS STEVE

From mcmeekin at columbus.rr.com  Thu Jul 12 21:28:21 2007
From: mcmeekin at columbus.rr.com (Jane McMeekin)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:28:21 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] So Ford and Ohio Sstate ...
In-Reply-To: <071220072156.13162.4696A383000106610000336A2200734830CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
References: <071220072156.13162.4696A383000106610000336A2200734830CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <D87CBE57-1D57-4F4D-A1AD-00DE8C6D9D6A@columbus.rr.com>

Wester,
      Yeah, they'll probably eat at the "Flamer" and use the toilets  
too. Sure sounds like this crew is gonna be a real pain in the butt.  
Maybe we should have a rule that limits the total weight of a crew to  
800lbs or so to lessen the risk. Is it the target, or the size of the  
gun that bothers us?
On Jul 12, 2007, at 5:56 PM, wester6935 at comcast.net wrote:

> I'm hearing a lot of comments on the Ford entry but nothing about  
> the Ohio State Buckeye Bullet that is running the same technology.   
> They had an air conditioning unit for their batteries the last time  
> they were on the salt.  That was quite the entourage at the  
> starting line.  They are salt veterans, record holders and  
> supposedly are going to be as quick as any other car.  Consider  
> though, that this is a student effort, the team will change due to  
> graduation and the team leader is probably the only constant in the  
> crew.  I don't know who the driver will be this year but I'm  
> guessing he has the licensing runs taken care of.  Will they hold  
> up lines?  Who knows.
>
> Wes
> _______________________________________________
> mcmeekin at columbus.rr.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From webmaster at landracing.com  Thu Jul 12 22:01:38 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:01:38 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <4696D733.3080400@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAECEECDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Im not sure why you are so scared of the Hydrogen projects and im not sure
why the SCTA is taking special precautions for the vehicle.

Is it the tanks, the risk of explosion, or the fire that scare you??? I
think I have an answer for all three.

The tanks are DOT approved and have a safety factor in them of almost 2.5 to
3 times.  They are three or more layers, and safety blowoff valves designed
into system, sometimes and usually more then one.... Hydrogen tank
explosions have been non exsistant in the fuel cell vehicles out today.
Todays tanks can withstand shots from a 357 magnum and a sticks of dynamite.
You stated stuff that happened decades ago and much larger scale , and
totally different operating circumstances.

Risk of explosion is very low and are in reality TONS safer then any
gasoline or fuel tank setup. Think about it, a race type car with 10 gallons
of fuel ruptures a fuel tank and you have liquid fire, burns very hot, and
spreads fast and goes everywhere and saturates everything. A hydrogen fire
will go out very very fast after shutoff of valve due to pressures involved,
and some systems have temprature and pressure monitoring systems build into
the cells. Some of fuel cell tanks have strain gauages built into the
composite shell for fiber optic monitoring.

Fire is scarey when thinking about it. But the radiant heat from Hydrogen is
very very low. Risk of burn due to heat is extremely low as long as you are
not sitting on flame. when used on smaller scale like a fuel cell vehicle,
now when you talk about large scale NASA Shuttle stuff, all bets are off.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:37 PM
To: webmaster at landracing.com
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
cell land speed record > Hybrid News


Jon, back in th early days there were other flights with the hardware.
Service Module 20 which was to have flown on Apollo 6 was destroyed in
an explosion. The dim recesses of my mind want to say that was fuel cell
but it coul dhave been someting else. It has been a long time, lol...
Maybe before you were born even... SM 14 was refurbed from ground
testing and flown in it's place.  Yes, you were correct about Apollo 13,
it was an oxygen tank heater that caused an overpressure that caused the
explosion which took out all the fuel cells. And breathing air and water
to boot.

mayf
Jon Amo wrote:

>Mayf,
>"I have a pretty extensive engineering background and I don't know squat
>about fuel cells, except that one blew the side out of one of the lunar
>missions and the mission had to be scrubbed (or was that Skylab?)."
>
>Wasn't that from an oxygen tank stir on Apollo 13????
>
>Jon

From webmaster at landracing.com  Thu Jul 12 22:04:30 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:04:30 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <4696760D.6040000@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEIEECDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Im not sure why you are so scared of the Hydrogen projects and im not sure
why the SCTA is taking special precautions for the vehicle.

Is it the tanks, the risk of explosion, or the fire that scare you??? I
think I have an answer for all three.

The tanks are DOT approved and have a safety factor in them of almost 2.5 to
3 times.  They are three or more layers, and safety blowoff valves designed
into system, sometimes and usually more then one.... Hydrogen tank
explosions have been non exsistant in the fuel cell vehicles out today.
Todays tanks can withstand shots from a 357 magnum and a sticks of dynamite.
You stated stuff that happened decades ago and much larger scale , and
totally different operating circumstances.

Risk of explosion is very low and are in reality TONS safer then any
gasoline or fuel tank setup. Think about it, a race type car with 10 gallons
of fuel ruptures a fuel tank and you have liquid fire, burns very hot, and
spreads fast and goes everywhere and saturates everything. A hydrogen fire
will go out very very fast after shutoff of valve due to pressures involved,
and some systems have temprature and pressure monitoring systems build into
the cells. Some of fuel cell tanks have strain gauages built into the
composite shell for fiber optic monitoring.

Fire is scarey when thinking about it. But the radiant heat from Hydrogen is
very very low. Risk of burn due to heat is extremely low as long as you are
not sitting on flame. when used on smaller scale like a fuel cell vehicle,
now when you talk about large scale NASA Shuttle stuff, all bets are off.

Jon

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 12 22:23:00 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:23:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  FW: Fossett Update July 11
In-Reply-To: <4696D2B7.2060108@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20070713042300.25324.qmail@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Try:
   
  www.landracing.com 
   
  read the multi part report written by Jon Amo two weeks ago.
   
  DW

drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
  Jeeze, Glen, is the salt so good that we can't hurt it or is is it so 
bad nothing we can do will hurt it any more, lol... Have yo been up to 
check it out? I haven't heard from anyone on the condition as of now. 
How you doing in the heat? we have cooled back down to our normal temp 
range of meerly hotter than hell..

mayf
Glen Barrett wrote:

> The courses are laid out and SCTA & USFRA & Bub all know the 
> locations. Jon Amo was up there a couple of weeks ago and saw the 
> markers. I don't think there will be a problem with anyone hurting the 
> salt and where we run at speed week.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" 
> To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: FW: Fossett Update July 11
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

 
---------------------------------
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 12 22:26:27 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:26:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Rule Book Question !
In-Reply-To: <380-22007751315310328@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <742713.29241.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

This issue has recently been discussed by the technical committees. It has been decided that this type of connector is Ok for use.
   
  DW

Steve Meierdiercks <smsandimas at earthlink.net> wrote:
  In the rule book under "3.R" Cooling System All liquid cooling systems
using non-braided circ. lines shall have metal clamps at each connection.I
have used on my cooling lines Russell "twist lok or push lok" fitting and
hose.The question being do I still have to use hose clamps on each
connection?

THANKS STEVE
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 22:45:30 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:45:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
 land speed record > Hybrid News
Message-ID: <00d001c7c508$a5db6e60$6501a8c0@S>

Forwarded with edits
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: <webmaster at landracing.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: "LSR List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
land speed record > Hybrid News


> Jon-- I'm pretty much with you on this subject.  But we still don't have a
> lot of experience with compressed hydrogen fuel in everyday transportation
> use.  I think erring on the side of caution is a good idea until we're
well
> past the possibility of the "Gawd, I wouldn't have imagined that anything
> like that would happen" stage.  I think a lot of us have been cowed by the
> pictures of the Hindenburg disaster.  Recent research and learned analyses
> of that incident have shown that the process or burning of the airship was
a
> lot more complicated than we thought.
>
> Hydrogen has the useful property of diffusing extremely rapidly making the
> maintenance of an explosive mix with oxygen in the atmosphere a very
> transient condition.  The net result of this is IMHO the maintenance of a
> substantial volume mixture of explosive potential fairly difficult; i.e.
not
> a good bet for really big "bangs".  In this statement I'll readily defer
to
> the wisdom of guys like Roy Creel or people with real world experience.
>
> I think if gasoline powered automobiles had just been invented there would
> be an incredible outcry about the hazards of carrying around 10 or 15
> gallons of the stuff in human controlled vehicles that travel at 70 mph
and
> can crash under conditions of improper operation.  So I'm a bit hesitant
> about jumping on the fear bandwagon with respect to hydrogen fuels.
>
> All of this notwithstanding I remain very skeptical about the
practicallity
> of compressed gaseous hydrogen as a motor fuel for consumer
transportation.
> Still I'd encourage Ford to go forward with their research and prove me
> wrong.  This is something we have to explore even if it ultimately fails
to
> prove to be a great commercial success.
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> Cc: "LSR List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
> land speed record > Hybrid News
> > Im not sure why you are so scared of the Hydrogen projects and im not
sure
> > why the SCTA is taking special precautions for the vehicle..........
> > Jon

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Jul 12 23:02:29 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:02:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Can anyone confirm this?  Not LSR
References: <64d7ac86e9c7c24ae7b1285143400f12@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <006601c7c50b$04585b40$3901000a@Dale>

I think you have to go back to the days of sail when the Capt sat on the 
right side of the ship to look out for who had the right of way under 
different wind conditions, I know not the rules of sail
dale
wife is now the proud owner of a Toyota sr5 pickup
dark and 88 in Caldwell, id

Subject: [Land-speed] Can anyone confirm this? Not LSR


> Question was why are boat steering wheels on the right side?  This was
> the answer posted by one respondent.
>
> Boat propellers turn clockwise, sez Leon, and hulls used to be designed
> in such a way that when there was torque on the prop, the right side of
> the boat would rise up. So the wheel was put on the right, so the
> weight of these "healthy sized" fishermen would counteract that. As
> long as they didn't put the beer cooler on the left, which would throw
> everything off. This is not a problem with modern hulls, but the design
> stuck. Racing boats, however usually have the wheel on the left, like
> American cars.
> _______________________________________________
> d.pulju at pahrump.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Jul 12 23:34:45 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:34:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
 cell land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <00d001c7c508$a5db6e60$6501a8c0@S>
References: <00d001c7c508$a5db6e60$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <46970EF5.6090704@mayfco.com>

well, Ed, you woul dbe wrong about the really big bang part. Back in 
Apollo days there was a free hydrogen explosion at the Rocketdyne 
facility in Santa Susana. They detanked stage 2 from the Saturn rocket 
system which used Hydrogen as the fuel. The hydrogen was allowed to boil 
off into the atmosphere.  Something set it off. For just about a mile 
around the complex, every window was blown inward trailer complex was 
crushed, cars were mashed and windows blown in, eardrums were ruptured.
And as I recall, the upper and lower explosive limits for h2 are 2% and 
98% in air. So inside a closed race car it can get concentrated enough 
to explode, not burn. Explode.

mayf
Ed Weldon wrote:

>Forwarded with edits
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
>To: <webmaster at landracing.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>Cc: "LSR List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:35 PM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
>land speed record > Hybrid News
>
>
>  
>
>>Jon-- I'm pretty much with you on this subject.  But we still don't have a
>>lot of experience with compressed hydrogen fuel in everyday transportation
>>use.  I think erring on the side of caution is a good idea until we're
>>    
>>
>well
>  
>
>>past the possibility of the "Gawd, I wouldn't have imagined that anything
>>like that would happen" stage.  I think a lot of us have been cowed by the
>>pictures of the Hindenburg disaster.  Recent research and learned analyses
>>of that incident have shown that the process or burning of the airship was
>>    
>>
>a
>  
>
>>lot more complicated than we thought.
>>
>>Hydrogen has the useful property of diffusing extremely rapidly making the
>>maintenance of an explosive mix with oxygen in the atmosphere a very
>>transient condition.  The net result of this is IMHO the maintenance of a
>>substantial volume mixture of explosive potential fairly difficult; i.e.
>>    
>>
>not
>  
>
>>a good bet for really big "bangs".  In this statement I'll readily defer
>>    
>>
>to
>  
>
>>the wisdom of guys like Roy Creel or people with real world experience.
>>
>>I think if gasoline powered automobiles had just been invented there would
>>be an incredible outcry about the hazards of carrying around 10 or 15
>>gallons of the stuff in human controlled vehicles that travel at 70 mph
>>    
>>
>and
>  
>
>>can crash under conditions of improper operation.  So I'm a bit hesitant
>>about jumping on the fear bandwagon with respect to hydrogen fuels.
>>
>>All of this notwithstanding I remain very skeptical about the
>>    
>>
>practicallity
>  
>
>>of compressed gaseous hydrogen as a motor fuel for consumer
>>    
>>
>transportation.
>  
>
>>Still I'd encourage Ford to go forward with their research and prove me
>>wrong.  This is something we have to explore even if it ultimately fails
>>    
>>
>to
>  
>
>>prove to be a great commercial success.
>>Ed Weldon
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
>>To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
>>Cc: "LSR List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:01 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell
>>land speed record > Hybrid News
>>    
>>
>>>Im not sure why you are so scared of the Hydrogen projects and im not
>>>      
>>>
>sure
>  
>
>>>why the SCTA is taking special precautions for the vehicle..........
>>>Jon
>>>      
>>>
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Jul 12 23:51:58 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:51:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
 cell land speed record > Hybrid News
References: <00d001c7c508$a5db6e60$6501a8c0@S> <46970EF5.6090704@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <010001c7c511$eef57c90$6501a8c0@S>

Mayf--  Ahhhh.........I told you I'd defer to folks who knew more about it
than me.  I remain skeptical though on both sides.  To me we'd best err on
the side of caution.  That 2%-98% range is scary.  But still that needs to
be measured against the rapid difusion rate of the tiny hydrogen molecules.
What do we know about the postmortem analysis of that Santa Susana event?
Interesting subject.  You got any good Google search words to try?
Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
cell land speed record > Hybrid News


> well, Ed, you would be wrong about the really big bang part. Back in
> Apollo days there was a free hydrogen explosion at the Rocketdyne
> facility in Santa Susana. They detanked stage 2 from the Saturn rocket
> system which used Hydrogen as the fuel. The hydrogen was allowed to boil
> off into the atmosphere.  Something set it off. For just about a mile
> around the complex, every window was blown inward trailer complex was
> crushed, cars were mashed and windows blown in, eardrums were ruptured.
> And as I recall, the upper and lower explosive limits for h2 are 2% and
> 98% in air. So inside a closed race car it can get concentrated enough
> to explode, not burn. Explode.
>
> mayf

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Fri Jul 13 05:57:24 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:57:24 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Rule Question...
References: <4696C3B6.7090804@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <005801c7c544$fb120a60$6401a8c0@Rick>

DOC
having run production Supercharged for many years, You may change the size 
of the turbo just not the quantity.  Same for charge air cooling.  It is a 
modification of the intake system.  I had compound charge air cooling and a 
turbo of more than 75 Pounds per minute on the Merk back in 97/98.  The next 
turbo motor is in planning stages and will have 120 PPM air flow.
Go for It.
Ms Doc will be happy.

Rick 

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 13 09:04:10 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:04:10 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
 cell land speed record > Hybrid News
Message-ID: <5061146.1184339050512.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

  That 2%-98% range is scary.  But still that needs to
>be measured against the rapid diffusion rate of the tiny hydrogen molecules.

I have worked with hydrogen cooled generators my entire electrical career which has now spanned over 40 years. I have had the responsibility with the electrical department to gas and degas our hydrogen cooled generators. The lowest pressure I worked with was 5 pounds and the highest 60. Hydrogen is never, I repeat never, allowed to vent to the atmosphere in air accept in small quantites to an area void of any possible sparking or flame. The first H2 generator came to California in 1947 so we have a lot of knowledge on how to work with it.

 Our "safe" practice is to displace the hydrogen in the generators with CO2 gas and then displace the CO2 with air prior to opening them up for maintenance. As long as the percentages are kept between the levels in the above listing they are safe. Generator hydrogen explosions are very nasty. I have never been involved with one but have watched films concerning their destruction capabilities. 

We all have been near pressure containing tanks. Those on this site who gas weld and those who have propane barbeques. All are dangerous but not like H2. I have no idea how a fuel cell exactly works but hydrogen under pressure can be a problem.

I believe these folks will not put anyone at risk. As stated they could not afford the possibility.  Most of us will learn from them and with what the fire experts we have working with our association tell us by watching them can only help us all....JD  

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 13 09:27:28 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
 cell land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <010001c7c511$eef57c90$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <517463.91509.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Ed,
   
  Google "creation of the Santa Susanna pass".
   
  DW

Ed Weldon <23.weldon at comcast.net> wrote:
  Mayf-- Ahhhh.........I told you I'd defer to folks who knew more about it
than me. I remain skeptical though on both sides. To me we'd best err on
the side of caution. That 2%-98% range is scary. But still that needs to
be measured against the rapid difusion rate of the tiny hydrogen molecules.
What do we know about the postmortem analysis of that Santa Susana event?
Interesting subject. You got any good Google search words to try?
Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" 
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
cell land speed record > Hybrid News


> well, Ed, you would be wrong about the really big bang part. Back in
> Apollo days there was a free hydrogen explosion at the Rocketdyne
> facility in Santa Susana. They detanked stage 2 from the Saturn rocket
> system which used Hydrogen as the fuel. The hydrogen was allowed to boil
> off into the atmosphere. Something set it off. For just about a mile
> around the complex, every window was blown inward trailer complex was
> crushed, cars were mashed and windows blown in, eardrums were ruptured.
> And as I recall, the upper and lower explosive limits for h2 are 2% and
> 98% in air. So inside a closed race car it can get concentrated enough
> to explode, not burn. Explode.
>
> mayf
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

 
---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Jul 13 12:30:58 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:30:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
 cell land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <517463.91509.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <517463.91509.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4697C4E2.1010106@mayfco.com>

Very phunny, Dan...  there is another scary part of the facilities 
there. Rocketdyne also had a small sodium breeder ( I think it was a 
sodium breeder) reactor up there somewhere and the stuff  leaked. Since 
Boeing now owns Rocketdyne, they are liable for the cleanup. 

mayf
dan warner wrote:

> Ed,
>  
> Google "creation of the Santa Susanna pass".
>  
> DW
>
> */Ed Weldon <23.weldon at comcast.net>/* wrote:
>
>     Mayf-- Ahhhh.........I told you I'd defer to folks who knew more
>     about it
>     than me. I remain skeptical though on both sides. To me we'd best
>     err on
>     the side of caution. That 2%-98% range is scary. But still that
>     needs to
>     be measured against the rapid difusion rate of the tiny hydrogen
>     molecules.
>     What do we know about the postmortem analysis of that Santa Susana
>     event?
>     Interesting subject. You got any good Google search words to try?
>     Ed
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "drmayf"
>     To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
>     Cc:
>     Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:34 PM
>     Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting
>     for fuel
>     cell land speed record > Hybrid News
>
>
>     > well, Ed, you would be wrong about the really big bang part. Back in
>     > Apollo days there was a free hydrogen explosion at the Rocketdyne
>     > facility in Santa Susana. They detanked stage 2 from the Saturn
>     rocket
>     > system which used Hydrogen as the fuel. The hydrogen was allowed
>     to boil
>     > off into the atmosphere. Something set it off. For just about a mile
>     > around the complex, every window was blown inward trailer
>     complex was
>     > crushed, cars were mashed and windows blown in, eardrums were
>     ruptured.
>     > And as I recall, the upper and lower explosive limits for h2 are
>     2% and
>     > 98% in air. So inside a closed race car it can get concentrated
>     enough
>     > to explode, not burn. Explode.
>     >
>     > mayf

From v4gr at rcn.com  Fri Jul 13 22:10:55 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:10:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
 cell land speed record > Hybrid News
References: <00d001c7c508$a5db6e60$6501a8c0@S> <46970EF5.6090704@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <001501c7c5cc$f9c2ec50$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 6 or 8 hydrogen powered cars run at 
Speedweek some years ago. Kind of had their own competion going within the 
rest of the meet. None of them blew up and i don't remember them being 
treated differently. I know Ford has been there before with that Lincoln 
deal ( What Every Luxery Car Should Be - Fast) and I remember some guys from 
the Canada foundry running a V6 roadster with a Blower telling me they were 
testing different blocks because there was a Blown Tbird super coup comming 
out, and Ford wanted front main bearing fauliers fixed. 

From webmaster at landracing.com  Fri Jul 13 22:52:48 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:52:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
 cell land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <001501c7c5cc$f9c2ec50$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEOEEIDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Probably the first was Ben Jordan from Denver Colorado, I think in 1980 give
or take a year, ran a Hydrogen powered Abarth... Went like 79 mph. Then
there was the Hydrogen powered Corbra a few years ago at WOS meet. That is
all I recall...


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Rich Fox
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:11 PM
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for
fuel cell land speed record > Hybrid News


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 6 or 8 hydrogen powered cars run at
Speedweek some years ago. Kind of had their own competion going within the
rest of the meet. None of them blew up and i don't remember them being
treated differently. I know Ford has been there before with that Lincoln
deal ( What Every Luxery Car Should Be - Fast) and I remember some guys from
the Canada foundry running a V6 roadster with a Blower telling me they were
testing different blocks because there was a Blown Tbird super coup comming
out, and Ford wanted front main bearing fauliers fixed.

From ed at vetteracing.com  Fri Jul 13 23:39:17 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 05:39:17 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
 cell land speed record > Hybrid News
Message-ID: <W914435060261561184391557@webmail10>

I can remember the mega-speed peroxide powered drag cars back in the70's (yeah, it was a bit foggy then).... Has anybody run one ofthose on the salt?
Ed



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jon Amo [mailto:webmaster at landracing.com]
>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 09:52 PM
>To: 'Rich Fox'
>Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel cell land speed record > Hybrid News
>
>Probably the first was Ben Jordan from Denver Colorado, I think in 1980 give
>or take a year, ran a Hydrogen powered Abarth... Went like 79 mph. Then
>there was the Hydrogen powered Corbra a few years ago at WOS meet. That is
>all I recall...
>
>
>Jon
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
>Behalf Of Rich Fox
>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:11 PM
>Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for
>fuel cell land speed record > Hybrid News
>
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 6 or 8 hydrogen powered cars run at
>Speedweek some years ago. Kind of had their own competion going within the
>rest of the meet. None of them blew up and i don't remember them being
>treated differently. I know Ford has been there before with that Lincoln
>deal ( What Every Luxery Car Should Be - Fast) and I remember some guys from
>the Canada foundry running a V6 roadster with a Blower telling me they were
>testing different blocks because there was a Blown Tbird super coup comming
>out, and Ford wanted front main bearing fauliers fixed.
>_______________________________________________
>ed at vetteracing.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From john.szalay at att.net  Sat Jul 14 11:58:11 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:58:11 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR mileage
Message-ID: <071420071758.8579.46990EB300056B59000021832158766720970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

-------------- Original message from "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>: -------------- 


> I tried a search and failed . . . 
> 
> Anyone know what kind of mileage the Nacar boyz are getting? Restrictor 
> plate/non? 
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> David in Durango 
> 

Assuming you meant NASCAR.

4 - 7 MPG  

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=700065

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sat Jul 14 15:10:49 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:10:49 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Vehicles And Safety>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <071420072110.11646.46993BD900041AC700002D7E22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>

This was copied and pasted from the article on page two on  www.landracing.com  entitled "Ford To Run Hydrogen Powered Fusion At Bonneville...."

"The company already has a fleet of 30 hydrogen powered Focus fuel cell vehicles on the road as part of a worldwide, seven-city program to conduct real world testing of fuel cell technology. The 30-car fleet has accumulated more than 540,000 miles since its inception in 2005."

If Ford Motor Company is comfortable with the liabillity of running 30 hydrogen powered vehicles on the road, 'worldwide, 7-cities',  they must have the safety aspects pretty well  figured out.

JGMagoo
aka Jim McNaul
Silverthorne, Colorado
(It's sunny and 72-degrees outside at 9,600 ft. and I'm looking at the snow-capped peaks above the house.)

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Jul 14 15:36:13 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:36:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Vehicles And Safety>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <071420072110.11646.46993BD900041AC700002D7E22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
References: <071420072110.11646.46993BD900041AC700002D7E22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <469941CD.30107@mayfco.com>

That's a pretty impressive experience base. I wonder how many of them 
have endo'e at B'ville? In a one off car with extra fuel cells and extra 
h2 tanks. With lot sof ice water cooling tanks. I just want inspection 
to be very rigorous when it comes to safety for the driver and any 
response folk who have to potentially clean up a mess.
mayf

  jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:

>This was copied and pasted from the article on page two on  www.landracing.com  entitled "Ford To Run Hydrogen Powered Fusion At Bonneville...."
>
>"The company already has a fleet of 30 hydrogen powered Focus fuel cell vehicles on the road as part of a worldwide, seven-city program to conduct real world testing of fuel cell technology. The 30-car fleet has accumulated more than 540,000 miles since its inception in 2005."
>
>If Ford Motor Company is comfortable with the liabillity of running 30 hydrogen powered vehicles on the road, 'worldwide, 7-cities',  they must have the safety aspects pretty well  figured out.
>
>JGMagoo
>aka Jim McNaul
>Silverthorne, Colorado
>(It's sunny and 72-degrees outside at 9,600 ft. and I'm looking at the snow-capped peaks above the house.)
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From adin at frontier.net  Sat Jul 14 15:59:35 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:59:35 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NASCAR mileage
In-Reply-To: <071420071758.8579.46990EB300056B59000021832158766720970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
References: <071420071758.8579.46990EB300056B59000021832158766720970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>
Message-ID: <20070714155935.9rdx7qxqdc40w8k0@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Yes. I cannot type.

thank you.


Quoting John Szalay <john.szalay at att.net>:

> -------------- Original message from "Adin, David"   
> <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>: --------------
>
>
>> I tried a search and failed . . .
>>
>> Anyone know what kind of mileage the Nacar boyz are getting? Restrictor
>> plate/non?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> David in Durango
>>
>
> Assuming you meant NASCAR.
>
> 4 - 7 MPG
>
> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=700065
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sat Jul 14 17:05:36 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 16:05:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Vehicles And Safety>From>Jim McNaul
References: <071420072110.11646.46993BD900041AC700002D7E22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469941CD.30107@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c7c66b$7dc48560$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

When I went to work for UAL I had to do heat treat sometimes. The oven ran 
between 1400 and 2000 degrees most of the time. When I wanted to put 
something in the oven I would put on the silver suit, get the big shovel, 
and open it up. The oven had a Hydrogen atmosphere. There was a pipe with 
natural gas forward of the door and a pilot light. This would make a flame 
curtain to keep oxygen out of the oven and away from the very hot hydrogen. 
Sometimes the fire curtain would fail to start. Then the oven would blow up. 
It was noisy, and some times threw a few bricks around. But the operator was 
standing there right in front of it when that happened and I never heard of 
anyone being hurt. What does this tell us about Fords at the salt? I don't 
know.   RF
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
Cc: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Vehicles And Safety>From>Jim McNaul


> That's a pretty impressive experience base. I wonder how many of them
> have endo'e at B'ville? In a one off car with extra fuel cells and extra
> h2 tanks. With lot sof ice water cooling tanks. I just want inspection
> to be very rigorous when it comes to safety for the driver and any
> response folk who have to potentially clean up a mess.
> mayf
>
>  jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:
>
>>This was copied and pasted from the article on page two on 
>>www.landracing.com  entitled "Ford To Run Hydrogen Powered Fusion At 
>>Bonneville...."
>>
>>"The company already has a fleet of 30 hydrogen powered Focus fuel cell 
>>vehicles on the road as part of a worldwide, seven-city program to conduct 
>>real world testing of fuel cell technology. The 30-car fleet has 
>>accumulated more than 540,000 miles since its inception in 2005."
>>
>>If Ford Motor Company is comfortable with the liabillity of running 30 
>>hydrogen powered vehicles on the road, 'worldwide, 7-cities',  they must 
>>have the safety aspects pretty well  figured out.

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Jul 14 20:03:49 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:03:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Vehicles And Safety>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <469941CD.30107@mayfco.com>
References: <071420072110.11646.46993BD900041AC700002D7E22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469941CD.30107@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <46998085.3080606@wildblue.net>

Wouldn't Ford go to the NASA technology transfer folks for about 40 years
worth of experience Mayf.
I'd go to them for a list of unknowns so I don't get blind sided.
Bryan



drmayf wrote:
> That's a pretty impressive experience base. I wonder how many of them 
> have endo'e at B'ville? In a one off car with extra fuel cells and extra 
> h2 tanks. With lot sof ice water cooling tanks. I just want inspection 
> to be very rigorous when it comes to safety for the driver and any 
> response folk who have to potentially clean up a mess.
> mayf

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Jul 14 20:08:54 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:08:54 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Vehicles And Safety>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <000b01c7c66b$7dc48560$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
References: <071420072110.11646.46993BD900041AC700002D7E22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469941CD.30107@mayfco.com>
	<000b01c7c66b$7dc48560$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <469981B6.2000603@wildblue.net>

Wow Rich!
Now that is the neatest piece of shop equipment outside of the
aerospace industry I've ever heard of.

I love LN2,
Bryan



Rich Fox wrote:
> When I went to work for UAL I had to do heat treat sometimes. The oven ran 
> between 1400 and 2000 degrees most of the time. When I wanted to put 
> something in the oven I would put on the silver suit, get the big shovel, 
> and open it up. The oven had a Hydrogen atmosphere. There was a pipe with 
> natural gas forward of the door and a pilot light. This would make a flame 
> curtain to keep oxygen out of the oven and away from the very hot hydrogen. 
> Sometimes the fire curtain would fail to start. Then the oven would blow up. 
> It was noisy, and some times threw a few bricks around. But the operator was 
> standing there right in front of it when that happened and I never heard of 
> anyone being hurt. What does this tell us about Fords at the salt? I don't 
> know.   RF
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
> Cc: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 2:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Vehicles And Safety>From>Jim McNaul
>
>
>   
>> That's a pretty impressive experience base. I wonder how many of them
>> have endo'e at B'ville? In a one off car with extra fuel cells and extra
>> h2 tanks. With lot sof ice water cooling tanks. I just want inspection
>> to be very rigorous when it comes to safety for the driver and any
>> response folk who have to potentially clean up a mess.
>> mayf
>>
>>  jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> This was copied and pasted from the article on page two on 
>>> www.landracing.com  entitled "Ford To Run Hydrogen Powered Fusion At 
>>> Bonneville...."
>>>
>>> "The company already has a fleet of 30 hydrogen powered Focus fuel cell 
>>> vehicles on the road as part of a worldwide, seven-city program to conduct 
>>> real world testing of fuel cell technology. The 30-car fleet has 
>>> accumulated more than 540,000 miles since its inception in 2005."
>>>
>>> If Ford Motor Company is comfortable with the liabillity of running 30 
>>> hydrogen powered vehicles on the road, 'worldwide, 7-cities',  they must 
>>> have the safety aspects pretty well  figured out.
>>>       
> _______________________________________________
> b.a.savage at wildblue.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Jul 14 20:51:03 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:51:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Vehicles And Safety>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <46998085.3080606@wildblue.net>
References: <071420072110.11646.46993BD900041AC700002D7E22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469941CD.30107@mayfco.com> <46998085.3080606@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <46998B97.8020702@mayfco.com>

Actually I am sure that the fuel cell technology itself is pretty safe. 
Safety comes in in theupset conditions. Just running down the road is 
probably going to be perfectly safe and sane. It is th eunknowns that I 
get concerned with. For instance, how well are the H2 tanks tied down? 
Hopefully better than in the street car version. And there are 
additional tankage because the normal tankage would not let it run the 
full course. Now, see that is someting different than the proposed 
streeet machine. It has extrra stuff. It also has tankage for fuel cell 
coolants that are necessary because it has to run wide open for a long 
time (comparitively).  So all that stuff  has to be anchored to 
someting. And since this needs to be safe, there has to be some way that 
the rescue drew can disable the electricals in the event that the driver 
cannot. That has to be both H2 and electricity.  And because it is a 
fuel cell, there may very well be a sequence for shut down that must be 
followed in the event of upset. Otherwise, shutting things off out of 
sequence could in reality make them worse.  I amnot worried about the 
normal car aspects of that in this case especially soince Rousch is 
involved in that part of it. It is just all this other stuff that can be 
worrisome. Rick will do a wonderful job driving the car for all it is 
worth. But he is like a rest pilot taking the airplane out for it's 
first flight. The envelope edges have to be found carefully. And 
unfortuanately, issues is what permits us to move forward with bettr 
designs. I just hope Rick isn't on the bad end of someting because 
something was overlooked. Or somebody thought of someting but decided 
that it just couldn't possibly happen... Those things always jump up to 
bit you.  As to NASA, things that live in space a long while generally 
have thermoelectric power generators or solar panels. It is just the 
short term stuff that has the fuel cells, like Apollo and the shuttle. 
Or batteries.

mayf, way offf (base) and far out (in left field) in pahrump

Bryan Savage wrote:

> Wouldn't Ford go to the NASA technology transfer folks for about 40 years
> worth of experience Mayf.
> I'd go to them for a list of unknowns so I don't get blind sided.
> Bryan
>
>
>
> drmayf wrote:
>
>> That's a pretty impressive experience base. I wonder how many of them 
>> have endo'e at B'ville? In a one off car with extra fuel cells and 
>> extra h2 tanks. With lot sof ice water cooling tanks. I just want 
>> inspection to be very rigorous when it comes to safety for the driver 
>> and any response folk who have to potentially clean up a mess.
>> mayf

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sat Jul 14 20:52:42 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 02:52:42 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Tanks>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <071520070252.16465.46998BFA000821430000405122069997350101090E030906@comcast.net>

Here's an interesting video, actually produced by BMW, regarding the use of hydrogen as a motor fuel. 

The car shown in the video is powered by a conventional reciprocating internal combustion engine, but fueled entirely by hydrogen. They say it went 300+ kph. 

The interesting part of the video to me is the discussion of the liquid hydrogen tanks they used and the claimed safety aspects of those tanks.

They seem to say that it is no more complicated or dangerous than running a vehicle on propane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeyLmmCAEH8


Jim McNaul
Silverthorne, Colorado : 58-degrees at 20:48  ;o) 

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Jul 14 22:14:23 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:14:23 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Vehicles And Safety>From>Jim McNaul
References: <071420072110.11646.46993BD900041AC700002D7E22064244130101090E030906@comcast.net><469941CD.30107@mayfco.com>
	<46998085.3080606@wildblue.net> <46998B97.8020702@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <002701c7c696$a1fc77a0$6501a8c0@S>

The more thoughts and commentary that get fielded on new ventures like this,
the better.  The real danger comes when big egos dominate and ignore things
they don't agree with.  On the other hand there comes a time to shoot the
engineers and "start production".
The trouble with crash conditions is that they are low probability events
full of hard to predict variables.  Better to solve the engineering problems
up front rather than rely on "test" results.  The problem for engineering is
that you need to understand the problem first before you design the
solution.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Bryan Savage" <b.a.savage at wildblue.net>
Cc: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Hydrogen Vehicles And Safety>From>Jim McNaul


> Actually I am sure that the fuel cell technology itself is pretty safe.
> Safety comes in in the upset conditions. Just running down the road is
> probably going to be perfectly safe and sane. It is the unknowns that I
> get concerned with. ...............>

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Jul 15 10:03:02 2007
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 09:03:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
Message-ID: <20070715160356.7314B1879BC@autox.team.net>

Now if you want to use a fuel that has energy and is proven to be as 
easy to handle as propane albeit a bit more smelly (understatement), 
why not use anhydrous ammonia? Meter it like we meter propane. I have 
safely transferred thousands of gallons of the stuff from trailer 
tanks to tractor tanks for fertilizing fields. Same/similar safety 
precautions as propane for a road vehicle should work.
Skip

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 15 10:16:00 2007
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 12:16:00 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
In-Reply-To: <20070715160356.7314B1879BC@autox.team.net>
References: <20070715160356.7314B1879BC@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <45ac72e90707150916x74da0c00o31ffcfd62d52dd89@mail.gmail.com>

I was just reading that ethanol takes anywhere from three quarters of
a gallon to a gallon and a quarter of fossil fuel to produce. It must
be transported by tanker truck since it tears pipes apart and when
left in your gas tank the water separates. All good things for your
fuel system. Why are we pursuing this direction?

Bob D.

On 7/15/07, Skip Higginbotham <Saltrat at pahrump.com> wrote:
> Now if you want to use a fuel that has energy and is proven to be as
> easy to handle as propane albeit a bit more smelly (understatement),
> why not use anhydrous ammonia? Meter it like we meter propane. I have
> safely transferred thousands of gallons of the stuff from trailer
> tanks to tractor tanks for fertilizing fields. Same/similar safety
> precautions as propane for a road vehicle should work.
> Skip

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Jul 15 10:26:10 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 09:26:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
In-Reply-To: <45ac72e90707150916x74da0c00o31ffcfd62d52dd89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070715160356.7314B1879BC@autox.team.net>
	<45ac72e90707150916x74da0c00o31ffcfd62d52dd89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <469A4AA2.1030205@wildblue.net>

Because ADM ordered Congress to do so.

Bryan

Robert J. Denton wrote:
> I was just reading that ethanol takes anywhere from three quarters of
> a gallon to a gallon and a quarter of fossil fuel to produce. It must
> be transported by tanker truck since it tears pipes apart and when
> left in your gas tank the water separates. All good things for your
> fuel system. Why are we pursuing this direction?
>
> Bob D.
>
> On 7/15/07, Skip Higginbotham <Saltrat at pahrump.com> wrote:
>   
>> Now if you want to use a fuel that has energy and is proven to be as
>> easy to handle as propane albeit a bit more smelly (understatement),
>> why not use anhydrous ammonia? Meter it like we meter propane. I have
>> safely transferred thousands of gallons of the stuff from trailer
>> tanks to tractor tanks for fertilizing fields. Same/similar safety
>> precautions as propane for a road vehicle should work.
>> Skip
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> b.a.savage at wildblue.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Jul 15 11:03:19 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:03:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
In-Reply-To: <45ac72e90707150916x74da0c00o31ffcfd62d52dd89@mail.gmail.co
  m>
References: <20070715160356.7314B1879BC@autox.team.net>
	<45ac72e90707150916x74da0c00o31ffcfd62d52dd89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070715170414.96AA2187A0B@autox.team.net>

HHHMMM...how did ethanol get to be a response to this note? Oh 
well.... Doesn't ethanol absorb water?????
Skip



At 09:16 AM 7/15/2007, Robert J. Denton wrote:
>I was just reading that ethanol takes anywhere from three quarters of
>a gallon to a gallon and a quarter of fossil fuel to produce. It must
>be transported by tanker truck since it tears pipes apart and when
>left in your gas tank the water separates. All good things for your
>fuel system. Why are we pursuing this direction?
>
>Bob D.
>
>On 7/15/07, Skip Higginbotham <Saltrat at pahrump.com> wrote:
>>Now if you want to use a fuel that has energy and is proven to be as
>>easy to handle as propane albeit a bit more smelly (understatement),
>>why not use anhydrous ammonia? Meter it like we meter propane. I have
>>safely transferred thousands of gallons of the stuff from trailer
>>tanks to tractor tanks for fertilizing fields. Same/similar safety
>>precautions as propane for a road vehicle should work.
>>Skip

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Jul 15 11:07:17 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:07:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
In-Reply-To: <469A4AA2.1030205@wildblue.net>
References: <20070715160356.7314B1879BC@autox.team.net>
	<45ac72e90707150916x74da0c00o31ffcfd62d52dd89@mail.gmail.com>
	<469A4AA2.1030205@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <20070715170735.23F61187A2D@autox.team.net>

Bryan,
OK, I'm completely out of it.....what is ADM?
Skip




At 09:26 AM 7/15/2007, Bryan Savage wrote:

>Because ADM ordered Congress to do so.
>
>Bryan
>
>Robert J. Denton wrote:
>>I was just reading that ethanol takes anywhere from three quarters of
>>a gallon to a gallon and a quarter of fossil fuel to produce. It must
>>be transported by tanker truck since it tears pipes apart and when
>>left in your gas tank the water separates. All good things for your
>>fuel system. Why are we pursuing this direction?
>>
>>Bob D.
>>
>>On 7/15/07, Skip Higginbotham <Saltrat at pahrump.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Now if you want to use a fuel that has energy and is proven to be as
>>>easy to handle as propane albeit a bit more smelly (understatement),
>>>why not use anhydrous ammonia? Meter it like we meter propane. I have
>>>safely transferred thousands of gallons of the stuff from trailer
>>>tanks to tractor tanks for fertilizing fields. Same/similar safety
>>>precautions as propane for a road vehicle should work.
>>>Skip
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>b.a.savage at wildblue.net
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jul 15 11:07:59 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:07:59 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gasseous Hydrogen as Fuel...
Message-ID: <469A546F.9080008@mayfco.com>

After watching the you tube video on the BMW effort for a hydrogen 
powered car, one question kept jumping up in my head.  Their method of 
just using H2 to replace gasoline seems to me to be a good short term 
solution. But I am always puzzeled by the statements that the only by 
produced is water, just plain old water. But it seems to me, that if you 
are also using the Oxygen from the atmosphere, you get all sorts of 
other gasses into the combuston chamber as well. Stuff like Nitrogen.  
Doesn't the buring of fuel with oxygen in the combustion chamber create 
enough heat to form the nitrides  and oxides of nitrogen?  Aren't those 
pollutants? Also, don't you still have the odd drop of oil that gets 
burned in the chamber as well? For sure most of the other junk may be 
greatly reduced but some is always produced, don't you think? Heck, if 
it does not burn stoichometically then maybe you get some other strange 
pollutants... like maybe Skip's ammonia as a by product. Or not. Just 
may be swapping one set of pollutants for a different set. Ditto for 
methanol. Burning alcohol generates some stuff far worse that what we 
are producing now.  

Maybe the interim solution is not to completely replace gasoline but to 
supplement it with H2, especially in the stop and go situations. 
Although it is gonna cost a lot becasue of the low energy density of the 
fuel.

Still....

mayf

From jon at infodestruction.com  Sun Jul 15 11:21:24 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 13:21:24 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
In-Reply-To: <20070715170735.23F61187A2D@autox.team.net>
References: <20070715160356.7314B1879BC@autox.team.net>
	<45ac72e90707150916x74da0c00o31ffcfd62d52dd89@mail.gmail.com>
	<469A4AA2.1030205@wildblue.net>
	<20070715170735.23F61187A2D@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <FC49CB43-F199-4BF4-B2E1-BEBE427763C0@infodestruction.com>

On Jul 15, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Skip Higginbotham wrote:

Bryan,
OK, I'm completely out of it.....what is ADM?
Skip



Archer Daniels Midland, a big agricultural conglomerate that makes  
ethanol and lots of other stuff.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Jul 15 11:34:53 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:34:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
In-Reply-To: <FC49CB43-F199-4BF4-B2E1-BEBE427763C0@infodestruction.com>
References: <20070715160356.7314B1879BC@autox.team.net>
	<45ac72e90707150916x74da0c00o31ffcfd62d52dd89@mail.gmail.com>
	<469A4AA2.1030205@wildblue.net>
	<20070715170735.23F61187A2D@autox.team.net>
	<FC49CB43-F199-4BF4-B2E1-BEBE427763C0@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <20070715173510.E9B6C187A29@autox.team.net>

Thank you Jon. I appreciate it.
Skip



At 10:21 AM 7/15/2007, Jon Wennerberg wrote:

>On Jul 15, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Skip Higginbotham wrote:
>
>Bryan,
>OK, I'm completely out of it.....what is ADM?
>Skip
>
>
>
>Archer Daniels Midland, a big agricultural conglomerate that makes 
>ethanol and lots of other stuff.
>
>                 Jon Wennerberg
>Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>              Marquette, Michigan
>              (that's 'way up north)

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Jul 15 11:37:13 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:37:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gasseous Hydrogen as Fuel...
In-Reply-To: <469A546F.9080008@mayfco.com>
References: <469A546F.9080008@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20070715173729.528DF187A29@autox.team.net>

May be a good idea. Propane and diesel in combination seems to work well.
Skip


At 10:07 AM 7/15/2007, drmayf wrote:
>After watching the you tube video on the BMW effort for a hydrogen
>powered car, one question kept jumping up in my head.  Their method of
>just using H2 to replace gasoline seems to me to be a good short term
>solution. But I am always puzzeled by the statements that the only by
>produced is water, just plain old water. But it seems to me, that if you
>are also using the Oxygen from the atmosphere, you get all sorts of
>other gasses into the combuston chamber as well. Stuff like Nitrogen.
>Doesn't the buring of fuel with oxygen in the combustion chamber create
>enough heat to form the nitrides  and oxides of nitrogen?  Aren't those
>pollutants? Also, don't you still have the odd drop of oil that gets
>burned in the chamber as well? For sure most of the other junk may be
>greatly reduced but some is always produced, don't you think? Heck, if
>it does not burn stoichometically then maybe you get some other strange
>pollutants... like maybe Skip's ammonia as a by product. Or not. Just
>may be swapping one set of pollutants for a different set. Ditto for
>methanol. Burning alcohol generates some stuff far worse that what we
>are producing now.
>
>Maybe the interim solution is not to completely replace gasoline but to
>supplement it with H2, especially in the stop and go situations.
>Although it is gonna cost a lot becasue of the low energy density of the
>fuel.
>
>Still....
>
>mayf
>_______________________________________________
>saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ed at vetteracing.com  Sun Jul 15 11:59:20 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:59:20 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
Message-ID: <W2194930678108091184522360@webmail2>

You left out the most important objection to the production ofethenol........
It has caused the price of beer to go updramatically!!! With the price of corn
soaring to produceethanol, farmers are plowing under hops to join the party,
and theprice at the pump has increased accordingly! (the beer pump, ofcourse)
Then of course there are the tortilla riots inMexico...... Maybe if we planted
sugar cane like the do in Brazil
Ed



>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
>
>I was just reading that ethanol takes anywhere from three quarters of
>a gallon to a gallon and a quarter of fossil fuel to produce. It must
>be transported by tanker truck since it tears pipes apart and when
>left in your gas tank the water separates. All good things for your
>fuel system. Why are we pursuing this direction?
>
>Bob D.

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Jul 15 12:03:05 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 11:03:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
In-Reply-To: <W2194930678108091184522360@webmail2>
References: <W2194930678108091184522360@webmail2>
Message-ID: <20070715180357.185CF187AA7@autox.team.net>

There is no saying that we don't have a variety of interests on this 
list!!!! (-:(-:
Skip (The beer price worries me)


At 10:59 AM 7/15/2007, ed at vetteracing.com wrote:
>You left out the most important objection to the production of 
>ethenol........ It has caused the price of beer to go up 
>dramatically!!!  With the price of corn soaring to produce ethanol, 
>farmers are plowing under hops to join the party, and the price at 
>the pump has increased accordingly! (the beer pump, of course)  Then 
>of course there are the tortilla riots in Mexico......  Maybe if we 
>planted sugar cane like the do in Brazil
>Ed
>
>
>
> >Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
> >
> >I was just reading that ethanol takes anywhere from three quarters of
> >a gallon to a gallon and a quarter of fossil fuel to produce. It must
> >be transported by tanker truck since it tears pipes apart and when
> >left in your gas tank the water separates. All good things for your
> >fuel system. Why are we pursuing this direction?
> >
> >Bob D.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jul 15 12:40:39 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 11:40:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
In-Reply-To: <W2194930678108091184522360@webmail2>
References: <W2194930678108091184522360@webmail2>
Message-ID: <469A6A27.5070806@mayfco.com>

Sugar cane? Maybe in Louisana. Have you seen much of it growing in 
Phoenix. lol? Needs a bit more of a tropical climate. Now sugar beets 
may be a different story.  But burning it still produces bad pollutants 
( aldehydes). But it will be fearsome indeed if the beer drinkers unite 
with the tortilla rioters.

mayf
ed at vetteracing.com wrote:

>You left out the most important objection to the production ofethenol........
>It has caused the price of beer to go updramatically!!! With the price of corn
>soaring to produceethanol, farmers are plowing under hops to join the party,
>and theprice at the pump has increased accordingly! (the beer pump, ofcourse)
>Then of course there are the tortilla riots inMexico...... Maybe if we planted
>sugar cane like the do in Brazil
>Ed
>
>
>
>  
>
>>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
>>
>>I was just reading that ethanol takes anywhere from three quarters of
>>a gallon to a gallon and a quarter of fossil fuel to produce. It must
>>be transported by tanker truck since it tears pipes apart and when
>>left in your gas tank the water separates. All good things for your
>>fuel system. Why are we pursuing this direction?
>>
>>Bob D.
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sun Jul 15 12:47:56 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:47:56 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>

Gasoline and diesel fuel have been developed for over a century now as the highest performance, most efficient, CHEAPEST, safest motor fuels ever produced. 

(Notice that the above list of attributes does NOT include 'low-emissions' or 'infinite supply'.) 

With the looming necessity of going to an alternative source of vehicle-propulsion fuel, we are probably looking at some (or all) of the following characteristics:

Lower performance
More expensive.
Less safety, or at least increased risk. 
Less efficient.

However, 'cleaner emissions' and 'infinite supply' MAY be on the plus side for the future. 

Hydrogen does produce very low emissions. Hydrogen CAN be produced very cheaply and in almost infinite supply. Hydrogen CAN produce high performance.

Efficiency will not really matter if the electricity used to produce the hydrogen comes from nuclear power which is extremely cheap and in nearly  infinite supply. 

Safety is still the number one hurdle in all of the above. 

Jim McNaul

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jul 15 13:48:40 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 12:48:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
References: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <469A7A18.5010806@mayfco.com>

Jim, how do you produce hydrogen cheaply?  Not by electrolysis, not by 
reforming natural gas or coal by products, not by solar electricity. 
How? That has been the largest stumbling block of all. It takes as much 
energy to  make hydrogen as it gives back in energy.  Point me in the 
right direction. Oh, the best method I have seen so far is the 13 enzyme 
reaction for starches (sugars).  This would work well, maybe becasue yo 
just need water, sugar, and the enzymes.   What other methods are there?

Oh, wait I see that you mention NUkes for the electricity. Yep that 
would do it all right. I invite you to Nevada to join the bazillion 
people who do not want the waste product repository in our back yard. 
Will you let us use your state instead?  Nukes, while they could be 
cheap, are dirty. The mining and processing makes an environmental mess. 
Enriching it to reactor grade takes a ton of electricity to do (see Oak 
Ridge). Breeders are even worse becasue you ultimately have to get rid 
of the sodium as well as the rest of the waste.  And if you relax the 
standards to build them cheaper, then Chernoble is a possibility. Was 
very close at 3 mile Island.  Fusion is 50 years at the earliest.

Wind is also a possibility. I saw a program where in the Netherlands 
that a private company is installing several thousand windmills. But 
when he was done, it would only suppor tabout 100,000 homes and the cost 
was jinormous!.

So we are in a crunch. Or will be in a few short years. IMHO...

mayf, way off and far out in Pahrump, where the Nuke repository is not 
very far away at all...
jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:

>snip
>

>
>Hydrogen does produce very low emissions. Hydrogen *CAN be produced very cheaply* and in almost infinite supply. Hydrogen CAN produce high performance.
>
>Efficiency will not really matter if the electricity used to produce the hydrogen comes from nuclear power which is extremely cheap and in nearly  infinite supply. 
>
>Safety is still the number one hurdle in all of the above. 
>
>Jim McNaul
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Jul 15 14:26:58 2007
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 13:26:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Ammonia (NH3)
Message-ID: <20070715202715.D3A21187A18@autox.team.net>

It would appear that NH3 could give you Hydrogen really easily???? 
What say? Don't know what to do with the N byproducts.
Before you get all upset about this, NH3 is the coolant in your RV 
refer. and H is supposed to be the primary operative element.
Skip

From webmaster at landracing.com  Sun Jul 15 14:41:40 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:41:40 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
 cell land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <46970EF5.6090704@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEGEEODFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Mayf,

"And as I recall, the upper and lower explosive limits for h2 are 2% and
98% in air. So inside a closed race car it can get concentrated enough
to explode, not burn. Explode."

Are you sure about that. Explosions maybe if compressed. Since you like to
think large scale (meaning you use NASA Rocket stuff to relate to a LSR
Car)(And there is no similarities there), lets use the Hindenberg as an
example, it didnt explode did it? And there was alot of it. Hydrogen has a
very low flame propogation rate. If it is compressed it will explode, but
you talked about hydrogen filing in the interier of car.

Jon



mayf
Ed Weldon wrote:

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Jul 15 15:10:34 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:10:34 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
Message-ID: <071520072110.26749.469A8D4A0005BF2C0000687D2209224627CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

Thinking of KT ... It's a good thing Diet Coke doesn't use a corn syrup sweetener.  Can you imagine where the price of Keith's drink of choice would excalate?

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Skip Higginbotham <saltrat at pahrump.com>
> There is no saying that we don't have a variety of interests on this 
> list!!!! (-:(-:
> Skip (The beer price worries me)
> 
> 
> At 10:59 AM 7/15/2007, ed at vetteracing.com wrote:
> >You left out the most important objection to the production of 
> >ethenol........ It has caused the price of beer to go up 
> >dramatically!!!  With the price of corn soaring to produce ethanol, 
> >farmers are plowing under hops to join the party, and the price at 
> >the pump has increased accordingly! (the beer pump, of course)  Then 
> >of course there are the tortilla riots in Mexico......  Maybe if we 
> >planted sugar cane like the do in Brazil
> >Ed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Jul 15 15:15:57 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:15:57 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternate Fuels
Message-ID: <071520072115.1999.469A8E8C000F2108000007CF2209224627CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

So I can't type ... I meant escalate.

W

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: wester6935 at comcast.net
> Thinking of KT ... It's a good thing Diet Coke doesn't use a corn syrup 
> sweetener.  Can you imagine where the price of Keith's drink of choice would 
> excalate?
> 
> Wes

From Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Sun Jul 15 19:11:38 2007
From: Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:11:38 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR
Message-ID: <071620070111.13377.469AC5CA000670380000344122007507449C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>

Yeah, corn is grown as a commodity and price supported by the government. They have to support it because the farmers aren't making money growing it. Thanks to petroleum based fertilizers (nitrogen) and high yield hybrid seed, farmers have ceased rotating crops, with the exception of some soybean.
This is why Iowa is brown, except when the corn's growing.
There's plenty of nitrogen runoff, too, which is why the Gulf is dead.
Their farming takes place only a few weeks a year, when they aren't doing their other job.
We think of farming corn as a renewable resource, but the way we do it isn't sustainable, and it's hugely petroleum based.
BTW, there are some few hip folks out there who call themselves Grass Farmers (no, not that, Otto). They'd argue the best solar energy use is natural grasslands, and careful pasturing of different animals in a scheduled procession via mobile pens produces high food yields naturally, while the grass grows like hell.
We cannot grow fuel for vehicles, only people. My 2 cents. BJ

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sun Jul 15 19:32:42 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:32:42 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR
In-Reply-To: <071620070111.13377.469AC5CA000670380000344122007507449C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000001c7c749$35850ac0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

At the end of the day car consumption of petro products only accounts
for 18 % so are not we working on the wrong side  of the decimal place??
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 9:12 PM
To: Landspeed
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR


Yeah, corn is grown as a commodity and price supported by the
government. They have to support it because the farmers aren't making
money growing it. Thanks to petroleum based fertilizers (nitrogen) and
high yield hybrid seed, farmers have ceased rotating crops, with the
exception of some soybean. This is why Iowa is brown, except when the
corn's growing. There's plenty of nitrogen runoff, too, which is why the
Gulf is dead. Their farming takes place only a few weeks a year, when
they aren't doing their other job. We think of farming corn as a
renewable resource, but the way we do it isn't sustainable, and it's
hugely petroleum based. BTW, there are some few hip folks out there who
call themselves Grass Farmers (no, not that, Otto). They'd argue the
best solar energy use is natural grasslands, and careful pasturing of
different animals in a scheduled procession via mobile pens produces
high food yields naturally, while the grass grows like hell. We cannot
grow fuel for vehicles, only people. My 2 cents. BJ

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.10.4/898 - Release Date:
7/12/2007 4:08 PM

From vcviking at wildblue.net  Sun Jul 15 19:46:02 2007
From: vcviking at wildblue.net (MR VIKING)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:46:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR
References: <071620070111.13377.469AC5CA000670380000344122007507449C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000701c7c74b$17a34880$83cf2946@Dellie>

Does not Brazil run most of their light vehicles on ethanol???  I think I 
have read that they use sugar cane as their sugar source, and burn the 
crushed and dried cane material to fire their stills.  If their farm 
tractors and trucks hauling the cane to the plants are ethanol powered, is 
not this 100% non petroleum and CO2 neutral????      I have heard that the 
major auto manufactures make alcohol engines (higher compression) available 
only in Brazil????  What do you folks think????                  Jon Landen


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net>
To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 6:11 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR


> Yeah, corn is grown as a commodity and price supported by the government. 
> They have to support it because the farmers aren't making money growing 
> it. Thanks to petroleum based fertilizers (nitrogen) and high yield hybrid 
> seed, farmers have ceased rotating crops, with the exception of some 
> soybean.
> This is why Iowa is brown, except when the corn's growing.
> There's plenty of nitrogen runoff, too, which is why the Gulf is dead.
> Their farming takes place only a few weeks a year, when they aren't doing 
> their other job.
> We think of farming corn as a renewable resource, but the way we do it 
> isn't sustainable, and it's hugely petroleum based.
> BTW, there are some few hip folks out there who call themselves Grass 
> Farmers (no, not that, Otto). They'd argue the best solar energy use is 
> natural grasslands, and careful pasturing of different animals in a 
> scheduled procession via mobile pens produces high food yields naturally, 
> while the grass grows like hell.
> We cannot grow fuel for vehicles, only people. My 2 cents. BJ
> _______________________________________________
> vcviking at wildblue.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Sun Jul 15 20:53:39 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jonathan)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:53:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR
In-Reply-To: <071620070111.13377.469AC5CA000670380000344122007507449C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
References: <071620070111.13377.469AC5CA000670380000344122007507449C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5f048ef70707151953k31ed3cb7l94a119e48e7c3b9b@mail.gmail.com>

We could grow food for vehicles, but not without changing a couple laws.

Hemp people!

Every single product produced with petroleum (especially plastics!!!!)
could be produced with hemp. The seeds have higher protien than any
other plant (except soy) and fiber could be used to make everything
from fabric, ropes and linens to fiberglass. The cellulose material
can be used to make paper, and building materials (think fiberboard,
just stronger and lighter). Not to mention hemp seed oil for
lubrication (the Navy's preferred lubricant!) and or course fuel.
(hempseed oil used to be used in lanterns instead of kerosene)

It's a shame the fed has their head up Bush's ass. Good thing
California is finally jumping on the bandwagon and making an attempt
to legalize the farming of Industrial Hemp. Going to make me a lot of
money when they do. (do you know how many TONS of hemp are IMPORTED
into the US every year?!?! U.S. retailers import 1.9+ million pounds
of hemp fiber and 450,000+ pounds of hemp seeds from Canada because of
bans on growing hemp in the United States)

Oh, yea, and the hemp plant is a weed, so it needs no fertilizers, no
pesticides, and when it's harvested, it's just clearcut, leaving a
massive root system to be reclaimed by the earth for the next years
crop... this leaves the soil healthier each year (quite the opposite
of corn) so crop rotation wouldn't even be needed.

Course, this would solve too many issues that our nation faces all at
once, so the restrictive government that's slowly taken over couldn't
possibly allow that!

~Jon

On 7/15/07, Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net <Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net> wrote:
> Yeah, corn is grown as a commodity and price supported by the government. They have to support it because the farmers aren't making money growing it. Thanks to petroleum based fertilizers (nitrogen) and high yield hybrid seed, farmers have ceased rotating crops, with the exception of some soybean.
> This is why Iowa is brown, except when the corn's growing.
> There's plenty of nitrogen runoff, too, which is why the Gulf is dead.
> Their farming takes place only a few weeks a year, when they aren't doing their other job.
> We think of farming corn as a renewable resource, but the way we do it isn't sustainable, and it's hugely petroleum based.
> BTW, there are some few hip folks out there who call themselves Grass Farmers (no, not that, Otto). They'd argue the best solar energy use is natural grasslands, and careful pasturing of different animals in a scheduled procession via mobile pens produces high food yields naturally, while the grass grows like hell.
> We cannot grow fuel for vehicles, only people. My 2 cents. BJ



-- 
~Jon

From Jimwprice at aol.com  Sun Jul 15 21:01:50 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:01:50 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
Message-ID: <c90.10512c52.33cc399e@aol.com>

I heard rumbles from the streamliner crowd concerning the new course set  up.
Has any one else heard of any specific gripes



************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From ed at vetteracing.com  Sun Jul 15 21:19:01 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 03:19:01 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR
Message-ID: <W555442773555531184555941@webmail3>

This is what we did during WWII. I grew up in Alabama where largequantities of
hemp were grown for the war effort. When the war ended,ALL of the fields were
burned and plowed under. But,through the years, Mother Nature had blown seeds
far & wideand it was common to find it growing along the highway even.
TheCannibus level was so low that you couldn't get high off it, but it
wasstill illegal under federal law, so a great campaign was launched
toeradicate it. This was done at the same time, by the same geniouses,that
decided we needed Kudzu for erosion control. Been to theSouth lately? Hemp
lost and Kudzu took over Dixie!
Ed


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan [mailto:jon.the.wise at gmail.com]
>Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 07:53 PM
>To: 'LandSpeed'
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR
>
>We could grow food for vehicles, but not without changing a couple laws.
>
>Hemp people!
>
>Every single product produced with petroleum (especially plastics!!!!)
>could be produced with hemp. The seeds have higher protien than any
>other plant (except soy) and fiber could be used to make everything
>from fabric, ropes and linens to fiberglass. The cellulose material
>can be used to make paper, and building materials (think fiberboard,
>just stronger and lighter). Not to mention hemp seed oil for
>lubrication (the Navy's preferred lubricant!) and or course fuel.
>(hempseed oil used to be used in lanterns instead of kerosene)
>
>It's a shame the fed has their head up Bush's ass. Good thing
>California is finally jumping on the bandwagon and making an attempt
>to legalize the farming of Industrial Hemp. Going to make me a lot of
>money when they do. (do you know how many TONS of hemp are IMPORTED
>into the US every year?!?! U.S. retailers import 1.9+ million pounds
>of hemp fiber and 450,000+ pounds of hemp seeds from Canada because of
>bans on growing hemp in the United States)
>
>Oh, yea, and the hemp plant is a weed, so it needs no fertilizers, no
>pesticides, and when it's harvested, it's just clearcut, leaving a
>massive root system to be reclaimed by the earth for the next years
>crop... this leaves the soil healthier each year (quite the opposite
>of corn) so crop rotation wouldn't even be needed.
>
>Course, this would solve too many issues that our nation faces all at
>once, so the restrictive government that's slowly taken over couldn't
>possibly allow that!
>
>~Jon

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Sun Jul 15 21:24:20 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 03:24:20 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Petroleum Conservation
Message-ID: <071620070324.28220.469AE4E400014ADD00006E3C22064246130101090E030906@comcast.net>

Dave D, 

I totally agree. It is TRUE that cars and light trucks (under 10,000# GVW) account for only 18% of all petroleum use in the USA!

Why shouldn't the OTHER 82% of petroleum users have to scrimp and save and conserve too??   

How 'bout the manufactures of plastic packaging?  How 'bout the asphalt on the highways?   How 'bout burning oil to generate electricity in power plants?

82% of petroleum does NOT go into cars.

Jim

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 15 21:23:59 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:23:59 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Salt Water Fuel
Message-ID: <007201c7c758$c1384b90$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Try this one....The oil companies would buy the oceans
Subject: Salt Water Fuel

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type video/x-ms-wmv which had a name of SaltWater.wmv]

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 15 21:37:05 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:37:05 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR
References: <W555442773555531184555941@webmail3>
Message-ID: <006501c7c75a$94daf4b0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

We had the same problem here in Pennsylvania when somebody developed a plant
called Crown Vetch for erosion control along our highways. Had to stop using
it when it spread everywhere like some science fiction monster.

Wonder if anyone tried to smoke it?

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ed at vetteracing.com>
To: "Jonathan" <jon.the.wise at gmail.com>; "LandSpeed"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR


> This is what we did during WWII. I grew up in Alabama where
> largequantities of
> hemp were grown for the war effort. When the war ended,ALL of the fields
> were
> burned and plowed under. But,through the years, Mother Nature had blown
> seeds
> far & wideand it was common to find it growing along the highway even.
> TheCannibus level was so low that you couldn't get high off it, but it
> wasstill illegal under federal law, so a great campaign was launched
> toeradicate it. This was done at the same time, by the same geniouses,that
> decided we needed Kudzu for erosion control. Been to theSouth lately? Hemp
> lost and Kudzu took over Dixie!
> Ed

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 15 21:38:08 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:38:08 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
References: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469A7A18.5010806@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <006801c7c75a$bab6ba70$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Mayf;

The problem with Chernoble was not "cheapness"---it was an asinine design
(positive reactivity feedback and inherently unstable) and the incompetent
operating crew had to violate their own safety regulations to cause the
accident.

Nobody, except the Russians, has ever used Chernoble type reactors to
generate electricity. Our reactors have negative reactivity feedback and are
inherently stable. At Three Mile Island the initiating cause was a leaky
valve which was ignored but the safety systems worked and the public was
protected.

The Oak Ridge electricity usage doesn't count---that was used to make 90 % +
enriched Uranium for bombs. The Uranium for civilian reactors requires only
5 % enrichment which is not "bomb grade" and centrifuges can do that--the
old Oak Ridge electrical method is not used.

Uranium mining and processing and nuclear waste disposal may be "dirty" but
are much smaller in scale than that of coal usage. And since coal contains a
small amount of Uranium, the public gets a bigger radiation dose from a coal
fired power plant than it does from a nuclear plant.

The amount of Uranium mining could be reduced significantly if we recycled
spent reactor fuel (which would reduce the amount of nuclear waste stored in
Nevada by a factor of ten)-- presently it's not economically attractive but
it will be in the future.

Nuclear plants get a bad rap politically primarily because the fear mongers
play on the public's fear of radiation ---while all of us live in a sea of
natural radiation which is hundreds of times more intense.

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
Cc: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul


> Jim, how do you produce hydrogen cheaply?  Not by electrolysis, not by
> reforming natural gas or coal by products, not by solar electricity.
> How? That has been the largest stumbling block of all. It takes as much
> energy to  make hydrogen as it gives back in energy.  Point me in the
> right direction. Oh, the best method I have seen so far is the 13 enzyme
> reaction for starches (sugars).  This would work well, maybe becasue yo
> just need water, sugar, and the enzymes.   What other methods are there?
>
> Oh, wait I see that you mention NUkes for the electricity. Yep that
> would do it all right. I invite you to Nevada to join the bazillion
> people who do not want the waste product repository in our back yard.
> Will you let us use your state instead?  Nukes, while they could be
> cheap, are dirty. The mining and processing makes an environmental mess.
> Enriching it to reactor grade takes a ton of electricity to do (see Oak
> Ridge). Breeders are even worse becasue you ultimately have to get rid
> of the sodium as well as the rest of the waste.  And if you relax the
> standards to build them cheaper, then Chernoble is a possibility. Was
> very close at 3 mile Island.  Fusion is 50 years at the earliest.
>
> Wind is also a possibility. I saw a program where in the Netherlands
> that a private company is installing several thousand windmills. But
> when he was done, it would only suppor tabout 100,000 homes and the cost
> was jinormous!.
>
> So we are in a crunch. Or will be in a few short years. IMHO...
>
> mayf, way off and far out in Pahrump, where the Nuke repository is not
> very far away at all...

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 15 21:40:20 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:40:20 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR
References: <000001c7c749$35850ac0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <006b01c7c75b$095ade90$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Dave;

In the U.S.the amount of energy (in the form of oil) that we use for
transportation (all types) is about three times the amount of energy (all 
types of fuel) that we
use to generate electricity.

So using electrolytic hydrogen for transportation would require an enourmous 
number of new big
electric utility power plants--solar and wind power are insignificant by
comparison.

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: <Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net>; "'Landspeed'" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR


> At the end of the day car consumption of petro products only accounts
> for 18 % so are not we working on the wrong side  of the decimal place??
> Dave

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 15 21:42:33 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:42:33 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
References: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <006e01c7c75b$583f4000$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Jim;

I agree except for a couple of fine points:

The Hydrogen production cost will be equal to the cost of electricity plus
the capital and operating cost of the electrolyzer facility, the cost of the
water feedstock, plus some profit---I don't think it will ever be as "cheap"
as present day gasoline or diesel.

Hydrogen supply is almost infinite because it is eventually recycled as
water but a regular supply of water for electrolysis will be a significant
cost (as it is for farmers, irrigation, etc.) of hydrogen production,
especially because it will have to be purified or treated before
electrolysis.

Electricity is put on the grid and sold at the market price regardless of 
how it is generated
(nuclear, coal,etc.). Presently operating nuke plants are low cost producers
by a little but their output (~ 22 % of total U.S.) just goes into the
market price.  Electricity will be the biggest cost component of Hydrogen
production. The theoretical maximum efficiency of electrolysis is 86.5 %
(neglecting future breakthroughs) and a lot of development and capital cost
will go into getting close to that figure.

Nuclear power is an "almost infinite supply" of a hundred years if we just
continue to mine and process Uranium, maybe 1000 years if we build breeder
reactors and recycle spent nuclear fuel---beyond that I'm not too worried.

If you guys keep this up, you'll provoke me into doing some capital and
operating cost estimates for Hydrogen fuel production and compare it with
gasoline as oil prices go up (providing it doesn't interfere with lurking,
bench racing, or sex---LOL).

Lance




----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 2:47 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul


> Gasoline and diesel fuel have been developed for over a century now as the
> highest performance, most efficient, CHEAPEST, safest motor fuels ever
> produced.
>
> (Notice that the above list of attributes does NOT include 'low-emissions'
> or 'infinite supply'.)
>
> With the looming necessity of going to an alternative source of
> vehicle-propulsion fuel, we are probably looking at some (or all) of the
> following characteristics:
>
> Lower performance
> More expensive.
> Less safety, or at least increased risk.
> Less efficient.
>
> However, 'cleaner emissions' and 'infinite supply' MAY be on the plus side
> for the future.
>
> Hydrogen does produce very low emissions. Hydrogen CAN be produced very
> cheaply and in almost infinite supply. Hydrogen CAN produce high
> performance.
>
> Efficiency will not really matter if the electricity used to produce the
> hydrogen comes from nuclear power which is extremely cheap and in nearly
> infinite supply.
>
> Safety is still the number one hurdle in all of the above.
>
> Jim McNaul

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Jul 15 22:26:42 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:26:42 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
Message-ID: <20070716042657.3B8F1187A43@autox.team.net>

I like it....too bad I'm not entered.
Skip



At 08:01 PM 7/15/2007, you wrote:
>I heard rumbles from the streamliner crowd concerning the new course set  up.
>Has any one else heard of any specific gripes
>
>
>
>************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>_______________________________________________
>saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jul 15 22:54:10 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:54:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: Ford's Hydrogen 999 racer shooting for fuel
 cell land speed record > Hybrid News
In-Reply-To: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEGEEODFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEGEEODFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <469AF9F2.6060209@mayfco.com>

Jon, th e Hindenbeerg burned around the periphery of the hydrogen cloud. 
If it was mixed with air, like it would be in a closed car, it woul 
dhave exploded. ANd no, it does not have to be compressed.  And I did 
over state the lower explosive limit and th eupper limits. IMy memory 
was bad. It is more like 17% to 56 percent or some such. Never the less, 
turn it loos int he interior of a car and it certainly will explode if a 
spark source is present.

mayf
Jon Amo wrote:

>Mayf,
>
>"And as I recall, the upper and lower explosive limits for h2 are 2% and
>98% in air. So inside a closed race car it can get concentrated enough
>to explode, not burn. Explode."
>
>Are you sure about that. Explosions maybe if compressed. Since you like to
>think large scale (meaning you use NASA Rocket stuff to relate to a LSR
>Car)(And there is no similarities there), lets use the Hindenberg as an
>example, it didnt explode did it? And there was alot of it. Hydrogen has a
>very low flame propogation rate. If it is compressed it will explode, but
>you talked about hydrogen filing in the interier of car.
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>mayf
>Ed Weldon wrote:

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jul 15 23:10:31 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 22:10:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <006801c7c75a$bab6ba70$2101a8c0@WinXP>
References: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469A7A18.5010806@mayfco.com> <006801c7c75a$bab6ba70$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <469AFDC7.8050900@mayfco.com>

Excuse me but you are wrong. I worked at Oak Ridge. K25 was the 
enrichment palnt for all nuclear fuel. Power plant or bomb except that 
bombs  all now use plutonium which is the by product of fast burning of 
uranium fuel.  Oak Ridge has mor e reactor ready materials for nuke 
plants than can be used in a hundred years. Why? It was too costly to 
shut down.  As to 3 mile Island, yeah we were protecte but just barely. 
And at that there were serious problems. The fuel had fractured and was 
in the process of becoming the china syndrome before humans got enough 
water on it to cool it down. I spent quite a lot of time in a nuke spent 
fuel plant looking over the designs to assure safety. There is on eheck 
of a lot of liquid wastes that have to go somewhere (nitric acid is one 
of the liquids).  Part of the bad rap on nukes is the unbelieveable 
costs involved with building one. And them maintaining it. And then 
decommissioning it when it's useful life ahs completed.  I did a lot of 
work for the US Senate regarding spent fuel, nuclear waste, storage and 
reprocessing. Then I spent a lot of time in oak ridge designing new and 
improved methods of enriching uranium. I ahve some back f=ground here 
and your data just does not fly.

mayf
joseph lance wrote:

> Mayf;
>
> The problem with Chernoble was not "cheapness"---it was an asinine design
> (positive reactivity feedback and inherently unstable) and the 
> incompetent
> operating crew had to violate their own safety regulations to cause the
> accident.
>
> Nobody, except the Russians, has ever used Chernoble type reactors to
> generate electricity. Our reactors have negative reactivity feedback 
> and are
> inherently stable. At Three Mile Island the initiating cause was a leaky
> valve which was ignored but the safety systems worked and the public was
> protected.
>
> The Oak Ridge electricity usage doesn't count---that was used to make 
> 90 % +
> enriched Uranium for bombs. The Uranium for civilian reactors requires 
> only
> 5 % enrichment which is not "bomb grade" and centrifuges can do that--the
> old Oak Ridge electrical method is not used.
>
> Uranium mining and processing and nuclear waste disposal may be 
> "dirty" but
> are much smaller in scale than that of coal usage. And since coal 
> contains a
> small amount of Uranium, the public gets a bigger radiation dose from 
> a coal
> fired power plant than it does from a nuclear plant.
>
> The amount of Uranium mining could be reduced significantly if we 
> recycled
> spent reactor fuel (which would reduce the amount of nuclear waste 
> stored in
> Nevada by a factor of ten)-- presently it's not economically 
> attractive but
> it will be in the future.
>
> Nuclear plants get a bad rap politically primarily because the fear 
> mongers
> play on the public's fear of radiation ---while all of us live in a 
> sea of
> natural radiation which is hundreds of times more intense.
>
> Lance

From webmaster at landracing.com  Sun Jul 15 23:22:21 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:22:21 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
In-Reply-To: <c90.10512c52.33cc399e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEIEFBDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Whats wrong with the course setup... Specifically??? I praise the three
course setup... I only see three problems that could exsist.. Which arent
really problems rather then a work in progress.
1st. According to the map of the courses the timing slip pickup for your
speeds is located between the 6 and 7 mile marker for combination #1 Course.
That means for a short course or long course vehicle that only may run the
combination course thru the 3 or 4 and pulls off course asap. May have to
load the race vehicle then travel down to the 6 1/2 to get your timing
ticket. Then back down to impound.
2nd. For the spectators for the event there wont be much to see after the
pits. Again the end of the pits shows 6 mile on course, so for spectators
wont be much of a show down there.
3rd. If the combination course 2 is used for a long course vehicle
(streamliner type, that also loads onto a trailer or pushes back at rather
low rate of speed). I could see the 1 hour timetable to get to impound may
be an issue for some teams. Timing starts when you exit the last or first
timed mile? So now your tow rig how to go down 7-8 miles for pickup, then
load then back 7-8 more miles, go around the pre-stage area which will be a
very slow area, I see that could be a rather large turnaround, then back
another 3 miles to impound area. Using posted speed limits, one stop at
timing slips, and pushing rather slow back, and having short reception at
end when crew shows up, then loading the car.. I come up with 58 minutes...
And there is some safety margin in there. And that was assuming 50 mph down,
30 mph back, 10 mph around prestage area, 30 mph to impound area, and 15
minute reception and load time to prepare vehicle for push or tow back, 2-3
minute time slip pickup.

Would like to hear how fast (MPH) people tow back, in both a trailer loaded
vehicle, and a push type vehicle. I have seen some push back fast and some
very slow, I guess it just depends on vehicle.

I love the way the system is in place for this year, and I was just thinking
about it.. No complaints here as I dont think I will have an issue. Then
again if its just my wife and I again loading and unloading it takes a
little more time.

Maybe a little give on time to get to impound should be addressed??? Just
rambling here...

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Jimwprice at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 9:02 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz LSR


I heard rumbles from the streamliner crowd concerning the new course set
up.
Has any one else heard of any specific gripes



************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL
at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
_______________________________________________
webmaster at landracing.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Jul 15 23:36:09 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 22:36:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
References: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<006e01c7c75b$583f4000$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <006301c7c76b$3a0bd2f0$6501a8c0@S>

Nuclear power is the only logical answer to general power needs in this
century given what we know now.  Opposition based on safety considerations
is largely emotional and has little basis in logic   If clean coal methods
including putting the carbon back underground are discovered to be
economically competitive with nuclear power then that's a possibility; but
the science isn't here yet.
For transportation hydrocarbon fuels are the only sure thing.  A lot of work
still needs to be done to get them to be economical and carbon neutral.
With respect to hydrogen fuel cells I have more hope for the fuel cell part
than the compressed hydrogen part.  Still a whole lot of work to do there.
I have two answers for the short run transportation needs of our economy.

First is encourage reduction of inefficiencies such as wasteful disapation
of energy to hydrodynamic drag and waste heat loss from archaic energy
conversion technology of common automotive brake systems.  Both sources can
be reduced by taxing operation of vehicles at economically unnecessary high
speeds on public roads.  Taxation is very possible with existing automotive
computer, GPS and transponder technology.  Miles traveled at some excess
speed up to an established safety limit would result in direct deductions
from a prepaid account.  (like Fastrak on the San Francisco Bay bridges)
(and the system would shut off at the Nevada state line).  Note that
aerodynamic losses increase by the third power of speed. When the account
goes dry a computerized engine governor takes over and limits speed.  The
second is to tax vehicles according to their design use and weight. The
light trucks, SUV's and passenger cars we drive tend to be much heavier than
they need to be to fulfill their purpose.  With modern materials and design
technology I can think of no reason why a vehicle's dry weight shouldn't be
less than its load carrying capacity.

Second is to change employment laws to require that hours worked begin at
the time the employee leaves his/her place of residence and end when they
return based on the average travel times for the trip.  Think about this for
a moment.  Employers certainly wouldn't want their people sitting in traffic
doing nothing while they were being paid.  Imagine all the possible ways an
employer could come up with to reduce that inefficiency.  Would you hire
someone who had to spend 3 hours a day going to or from work?  If you did
you might be highly motivated to provide the employee with a seat on a bus
or train that was a moving internet wireless hot spot.

Lance-- Run the numbers.  In a society inflicted with a seemingly incurable
case of innumerology we need to do more real number crunching on energy
problems.  People's "gut feel" and emotions are not gonna get this job done.
The only thing we have to fear is the loss of our testosterone!!
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joseph lance" <jolylance at earthlink.net>
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
> Jim;
> I agree except for a couple of fine points:................
> If you guys keep this up, you'll provoke me into doing some capital and
> operating cost estimates for Hydrogen fuel production and compare it with
> gasoline as oil prices go up (providing it doesn't interfere with lurking,
> bench racing, or sex---LOL).
> Lance

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Mon Jul 16 01:59:09 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:59:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Amazing American Educational Breakthrough
Message-ID: <469B254D.4010004@wildblue.net>

*Van Von Hunter, Volume 1: Kaplan SAT/ACT Vocabulary-Building Manga (Van
Von Hunter) (Paperback) *
http://www.amazon.com/Van-Von-Hunter-Kaplan-Vocabulary-Building/dp/1427754942/ref=sr_1_46/104-0405763-8123149?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184571425&sr=1-46

This kind of Paperback used to be called a Comic Book and when I read
them, I wasn't
studying for the SAT/ACT. At least I don't think I was.

Not to worry, we can get  all of the engineers and scientist we need from
China, India and South Korea, (not to mention Cuba).

Cheers everyone,
Bryan

From Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Mon Jul 16 06:41:01 2007
From: Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:41:01 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR
Message-ID: <071620071241.8186.469B675D000C121F00001FFA22007503309C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>

Dave, we spend a lot more dough on gasoline in this household than we do on home heating oil and electricity combined. If Washington had an energy policy maybe we'd all know these basic facts, but then again they're so inept and money driven perhaps it's just as well. I think what we'll be driving down the line might look more like Nebulous Theorem than what's in the driveway now. We'll need better roads where trucks are prohibited for these lightweight vehicles. But what do I know? BJ

From jon at infodestruction.com  Mon Jul 16 07:50:43 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:50:43 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <006801c7c75a$bab6ba70$2101a8c0@WinXP>
References: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469A7A18.5010806@mayfco.com> <006801c7c75a$bab6ba70$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <03F2101B-89F1-4989-9B74-05D5A214E7CC@infodestruction.com>

On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:38 PM, joseph lance wrote:

Mayf;
  And since coal contains a
small amount of Uranium, the public gets a bigger radiation dose from  
a coal
fired power plant than it does from a nuclear plant.

Lance



I had heard that indeed, there is radiation from the coal at coal- 
fired power plants, but it's from the radioactive radon gas that's  
exuded from the coal -- not from included uranium.  I don't know  
about other places in the country, but up here -- with our tightly- 
insulated houses and old-fashioned stone-walled basements -- radon  
gas is a big enough threat to public safety that most county health  
departments have radon gas test kits available for the public, and  
they run public service announcements about radon on the radio stations.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Mon Jul 16 07:55:14 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 06:55:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
In-Reply-To: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEIEFBDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
References: <c90.10512c52.33cc399e@aol.com>
	<LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEIEFBDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <20070716135536.9E9F7187A9F@autox.team.net>

Jon,
We use a dolly and go down at about 45 MPH....we pull back at about 
20-25 MPH. It takes 3-4 minutes to hook it up. We take about 5 
minutes for debrief in the shutdown area. Driver picks up the 
chute(s) while waiting. Back to impound currently take us about 40-45 
minutes if we don't mess around.
Skip




At 10:22 PM 7/15/2007, Jon Amo wrote:
>Whats wrong with the course setup... Specifically??? I praise the three
>course setup... I only see three problems that could exsist.. Which arent
>really problems rather then a work in progress.
>1st. According to the map of the courses the timing slip pickup for your
>speeds is located between the 6 and 7 mile marker for combination #1 Course.
>That means for a short course or long course vehicle that only may run the
>combination course thru the 3 or 4 and pulls off course asap. May have to
>load the race vehicle then travel down to the 6 1/2 to get your timing
>ticket. Then back down to impound.
>2nd. For the spectators for the event there wont be much to see after the
>pits. Again the end of the pits shows 6 mile on course, so for spectators
>wont be much of a show down there.
>3rd. If the combination course 2 is used for a long course vehicle
>(streamliner type, that also loads onto a trailer or pushes back at rather
>low rate of speed). I could see the 1 hour timetable to get to impound may
>be an issue for some teams. Timing starts when you exit the last or first
>timed mile? So now your tow rig how to go down 7-8 miles for pickup, then
>load then back 7-8 more miles, go around the pre-stage area which will be a
>very slow area, I see that could be a rather large turnaround, then back
>another 3 miles to impound area. Using posted speed limits, one stop at
>timing slips, and pushing rather slow back, and having short reception at
>end when crew shows up, then loading the car.. I come up with 58 minutes...
>And there is some safety margin in there. And that was assuming 50 mph down,
>30 mph back, 10 mph around prestage area, 30 mph to impound area, and 15
>minute reception and load time to prepare vehicle for push or tow back, 2-3
>minute time slip pickup.
>
>Would like to hear how fast (MPH) people tow back, in both a trailer loaded
>vehicle, and a push type vehicle. I have seen some push back fast and some
>very slow, I guess it just depends on vehicle.
>
>I love the way the system is in place for this year, and I was just thinking
>about it.. No complaints here as I dont think I will have an issue. Then
>again if its just my wife and I again loading and unloading it takes a
>little more time.
>
>Maybe a little give on time to get to impound should be addressed??? Just
>rambling here...
>
>Jon

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Jul 16 08:01:13 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:01:13 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
References: <c90.10512c52.33cc399e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <007001c7c7b1$c5c2df50$6401a8c0@Glens>

Be more specific Jim.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Jimwprice at aol.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 9:01 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz LSR


>I heard rumbles from the streamliner crowd concerning the new course set 
>up.
> Has any one else heard of any specific gripes

From jon at infodestruction.com  Mon Jul 16 08:07:56 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:07:56 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
In-Reply-To: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEIEFBDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEIEFBDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <40AD35D4-8468-4D95-88BB-9082852D9447@infodestruction.com>

On Jul 16, 2007, at 1:22 AM, Jon Amo wrote:


Maybe a little give on time to get to impound should be addressed???  
Just
rambling here...

Jon




You know, now that I think about it, I don't remember being checked  
for the time when entering impound.  It's usually just a smile and a  
wave in.  One of the tech guys is happy to take my time slip and  
initiate the paperwork -- but I'd think the person at the impound  
entrance would be the person to note the time of arrival.

As for the course layout -- which comments I deleted (above) -- I  
wondered about the location of the timing slip stand on that course,  
too, and maybe it's not going to be at the 6 1/2 or whatever - it  
might be shown in the wrong spot.  Your comments are valid, Jon,  
about how much of a hassle it'll be for a vehicle that runs to the  
three (and qualifies), but has to go all the way to the 6 1/2 just to  
get the slip, then all the way back.  We'll see, we'll see.

Pits to the 6?  Well, I've heard that since every racer seems to want  
"beach-front seating" -- that the pits will be long and not very  
deep.  The early drawing of the course that I got in mid-June showed  
pits from the 2 to the 4, and now they look to be lots longer.  Again  
-- we'll see when we get there.

Above all, folks, don't worry too much -- no matter what's where,  
there'll be a porta-potty within no more than a mile or two.  Maybe  
even closer...

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Jul 16 08:12:25 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:12:25 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEIEFBDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <00a801c7c7b3$5614b6e0$6401a8c0@Glens>

We had a meeting at the lakes on Saturday after noon and there are several 
changes to the original operation and planning of how it will work. The #2 
course will probably hold vehicles at the far end and move them across the 
#1 course which will result in a much shorter road back. They will be 
escorted to impound if they have qualified for a record to assure they get 
there on time. We have done this in the past and it works well.

We all need to work together to make it all come together for a fast and 
safe met.
Glen


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
To: <Jimwprice at aol.com>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] New course buzz LSR


> Whats wrong with the course setup... Specifically??? I praise the three
> course setup... I only see three problems that could exsist.. Which arent
> really problems rather then a work in progress.
> 1st. According to the map of the courses the timing slip pickup for your
> speeds is located between the 6 and 7 mile marker for combination #1 
> Course.
> That means for a short course or long course vehicle that only may run the
> combination course thru the 3 or 4 and pulls off course asap. May have to
> load the race vehicle then travel down to the 6 1/2 to get your timing
> ticket. Then back down to impound.
> 2nd. For the spectators for the event there wont be much to see after the
> pits. Again the end of the pits shows 6 mile on course, so for spectators
> wont be much of a show down there.
> 3rd. If the combination course 2 is used for a long course vehicle
> (streamliner type, that also loads onto a trailer or pushes back at rather
> low rate of speed). I could see the 1 hour timetable to get to impound may
> be an issue for some teams. Timing starts when you exit the last or first
> timed mile? So now your tow rig how to go down 7-8 miles for pickup, then
> load then back 7-8 more miles, go around the pre-stage area which will be 
> a
> very slow area, I see that could be a rather large turnaround, then back
> another 3 miles to impound area. Using posted speed limits, one stop at
> timing slips, and pushing rather slow back, and having short reception at
> end when crew shows up, then loading the car.. I come up with 58 
> minutes...
> And there is some safety margin in there. And that was assuming 50 mph 
> down,
> 30 mph back, 10 mph around prestage area, 30 mph to impound area, and 15
> minute reception and load time to prepare vehicle for push or tow back, 
> 2-3
> minute time slip pickup.
>
> Would like to hear how fast (MPH) people tow back, in both a trailer 
> loaded
> vehicle, and a push type vehicle. I have seen some push back fast and some
> very slow, I guess it just depends on vehicle.
>
> I love the way the system is in place for this year, and I was just 
> thinking
> about it.. No complaints here as I dont think I will have an issue. Then
> again if its just my wife and I again loading and unloading it takes a
> little more time.
>
> Maybe a little give on time to get to impound should be addressed??? Just
> rambling here...
>
> Jon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Jimwprice at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 9:02 PM
> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz LSR
>
>
> I heard rumbles from the streamliner crowd concerning the new course set
> up.
> Has any one else heard of any specific gripes
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL

From dlodom at charter.net  Mon Jul 16 08:40:47 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:40:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] El Mirage
Message-ID: <469B836F.6040100@charter.net>

This weekend results are posted already.   Great job SCTA !   Did see 
Sparky had no time and nothing about Keith's girlie camero. I'm too busy 
rewiring the Vette to get over there this weekend.     Doug Odom in big 
ditch

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Jul 16 09:19:52 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:19:52 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] El Mirage
References: <469B836F.6040100@charter.net>
Message-ID: <00b701c7c7bc$c22433c0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Keith wasn't there and Sparky didn't run, saw his car still on the trailer 
late Saturday.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DougOdom" <dlodom at charter.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] El Mirage


> This weekend results are posted already.   Great job SCTA !   Did see
> Sparky had no time and nothing about Keith's girlie camero. I'm too busy
> rewiring the Vette to get over there this weekend.     Doug Odom in big
> ditch

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Mon Jul 16 09:29:54 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:29:54 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <03F2101B-89F1-4989-9B74-05D5A214E7CC@infodestruction.com>
References: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469A7A18.5010806@mayfco.com> <006801c7c75a$bab6ba70$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<03F2101B-89F1-4989-9B74-05D5A214E7CC@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <469B8EF2.2060100@wildblue.net>

I thought the radioactive stuff in coal was Carbon 14.....??

Bryan


Jon Wennerberg wrote:
> On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:38 PM, joseph lance wrote:
>
> Mayf;
>   And since coal contains a
> small amount of Uranium, the public gets a bigger radiation dose from  
> a coal
> fired power plant than it does from a nuclear plant.
>
> Lance
>
>
>
> I had heard that indeed, there is radiation from the coal at coal- 
> fired power plants, but it's from the radioactive radon gas that's  
> exuded from the coal -- not from included uranium.  I don't know  
> about other places in the country, but up here -- with our tightly- 
> insulated houses and old-fashioned stone-walled basements -- radon  
> gas is a big enough threat to public safety that most county health  
> departments have radon gas test kits available for the public, and  
> they run public service announcements about radon on the radio stations.
>
>                  Jon Wennerberg
> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>               Marquette, Michigan
>               (that's 'way up north)
> _______________________________________________
> b.a.savage at wildblue.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Flowbench at aol.com  Mon Jul 16 09:36:24 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:36:24 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
Message-ID: <c8d.110c426f.33ccea78@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/16/2007 7:08:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
jon at infodestruction.com writes:

> You know, now that I think about it, I don't remember being checked  
> for the time when entering impound.  It's usually just a smile and a  
> wave in.  One of the tech guys is happy to take my time slip and  
> initiate the paperwork -- but I'd think the person at the impound  
> entrance would be the person to note the time of arrival.
> 

Jon, the time of your run is on the timeslip. The tech crew writes it down 
when you give it to them. You're just always early. If your running late you 
might want the gate crew to note your time of entry, especially if the impound is 
busy...


**************************************
 Get a sneak peak of the all-new 
AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From jon at infodestruction.com  Mon Jul 16 10:05:50 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:05:50 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <469B8EF2.2060100@wildblue.net>
References: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469A7A18.5010806@mayfco.com> <006801c7c75a$bab6ba70$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<03F2101B-89F1-4989-9B74-05D5A214E7CC@infodestruction.com>
	<469B8EF2.2060100@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <50C49F2C-252B-422A-993D-92DCD5DE0D71@infodestruction.com>

On Jul 16, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Bryan Savage wrote:

I thought the radioactive stuff in coal was Carbon 14.....??

Bryan





Well, you made me wonder -- so I looked it up.  I found this in a
USGS factsheet:

"Coal is largely composed of organic matter, but it is the inorganic
matter in coalminerals and trace elements that have been cited as
possible causes of health, environmental, and technological problems
associated with the use of coal. Some trace elements in coal are
naturally radioactive. These radioactive elements include uranium
(U), thorium (Th), and their numerous decay products, including
radium (Ra) and radon (Rn)."

So there you have it -- there IS uranium in the coal.  I didn't see
any mention of C14, though. . .  If you want to read more, either
Google it yourself -- or follow this link:

http://greenwood.cr.usgs.gov/energy/factshts/163-97/FS-163-97.html

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

PS  I think I'm going to the environmental stuff website for a while
this afternoon -- to see if they've got any land speed racing chit
chat going on.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Jul 16 10:26:43 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:26:43 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <071620071626.19104.469B9C430005D11E00004AA02206424413CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

For what it's worth ...

When the uranium boom hit Utah fifty years ago I knew several guys who spent considerable time looking with geiger counters for their fortune.  Several brought back some radioactive rocks. A couple had yellow cake, the high radiation kind.  The ones I knew best lived to be in their eighties and the biggest problem with exposure was ruined film in their cameras.  That's spectacular country for photographers.

Wes

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Jon Wennerberg <jon at infodestruction.com>
> On Jul 16, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Bryan Savage wrote:
> 
> I thought the radioactive stuff in coal was Carbon 14.....??
> 
> Bryan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you made me wonder -- so I looked it up.  I found this in a
> USGS factsheet:
> 
> "Coal is largely composed of organic matter, but it is the inorganic
> matter in coalminerals and trace elements that have been cited as
> possible causes of health, environmental, and technological problems
> associated with the use of coal. Some trace elements in coal are
> naturally radioactive. These radioactive elements include uranium
> (U), thorium (Th), and their numerous decay products, including
> radium (Ra) and radon (Rn)."
> 
> So there you have it -- there IS uranium in the coal.  I didn't see
> any mention of C14, though. . .  If you want to read more, either
> Google it yourself -- or follow this link:
> 
> http://greenwood.cr.usgs.gov/energy/factshts/163-97/FS-163-97.html
> 
>                  Jon Wennerberg
> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>               Marquette, Michigan
>               (that's 'way up north)
> 
> PS  I think I'm going to the environmental stuff website for a while
> this afternoon -- to see if they've got any land speed racing chit
> chat going on.
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 16 10:55:03 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:55:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
In-Reply-To: <c8d.110c426f.33ccea78@aol.com>
Message-ID: <618604.13856.qm@web52505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

The person manning the impound gate at Bonneville will mark on the time slip the time you arrive. This is done for the cars, I think the M/C guys just go over to the M/C tech trailer for sign in.
   
  DW

Flowbench at aol.com wrote:
  In a message dated 7/16/2007 7:08:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
jon at infodestruction.com writes:

> You know, now that I think about it, I don't remember being checked 
> for the time when entering impound. It's usually just a smile and a 
> wave in. One of the tech guys is happy to take my time slip and 
> initiate the paperwork -- but I'd think the person at the impound 
> entrance would be the person to note the time of arrival.
> 

Jon, the time of your run is on the timeslip. The tech crew writes it down 
when you give it to them. You're just always early. If your running late you 
might want the gate crew to note your time of entry, especially if the impound is 
busy...


**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new 
AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
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From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 16 11:28:19 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:28:19 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
References: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469A7A18.5010806@mayfco.com> <006801c7c75a$bab6ba70$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<03F2101B-89F1-4989-9B74-05D5A214E7CC@infodestruction.com>
	<469B8EF2.2060100@wildblue.net>
	<50C49F2C-252B-422A-993D-92DCD5DE0D71@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <002101c7c7ce$b9673e50$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Carbon 14 is a naturally occurring radioactive isotope that plants and animals
absorb from the atmosphere (while we are alive).

If the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and EPA strictly enforced their
regulations we'd all have to be buried in nuclear waste dumps.

Lance
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jon Wennerberg
  To: Bryan Savage
  Cc: joseph lance ; land-speed-digest ; jgmagoo at comcast.net
  Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 12:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul




  On Jul 16, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Bryan Savage wrote:


  I thought the radioactive stuff in coal was Carbon 14.....??


  Bryan



  Well, you made me wonder -- so I looked it up.  I found this in a USGS
factsheet:


  "Coal is largely composed of organic matter, but it is the inorganic matter
in coalminerals and trace elements that have been cited as possible causes
of health, environmental, and technological problems associated with the use
of coal. Some trace elements in coal are naturally radioactive. These
radioactive elements include uranium (U), thorium (Th), and their numerous
decay products, including radium (Ra) and radon (Rn)."


  So there you have it -- there IS uranium in the coal.  I didn't see any
mention of C14, though. . .  If you want to read more, either Google it
yourself -- or follow this link:


  http://greenwood.cr.usgs.gov/energy/factshts/163-97/FS-163-97.html


                  Jon Wennerberg
  Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
               Marquette, Michigan
               (that's 'way up north)


  PS  I think I'm going to the environmental stuff website for a while this
afternoon -- to see if they've got any land speed racing chit chat going on.

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 16 13:50:45 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:50:45 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed]  Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <001001c7c7e2$9f2dbe60$2101a8c0@WinXP>

> Uranium enrichment at the 5% or less level for civilian nuke reactors was
> privatized in the early 1990s and its a thriving business, so I don't know
> why Oak Ridge would still be involved.
>
> Sounds like you are combining the civilian and military nuclear
> programs--the radioactive liquid nuclear waste at Hanford was left over 
> from
> the military program.
>
> I don't agree that nuclear plants costs are "unbelievable".  The nuclear
> plant cost includes the capital cost of the equipment and construction 
> labor
> and materials plus the interest during construction (IDC) that the utility
> must pay to borrow the money to build the plant. If the capital cost is
> $1,730/kwe then a 1000Mwe plant costs $1.73 Billion. To borrow that amount
> at 6% interest costs ~$100 million per year. For the plants ordered in the
> 1960s thru the early 1980s the construction schedules were originally 6
> years. But Ralph Nader and his fellow interveners used all kinds of court
> challenges to delay construction for years, extending schedules to 12 
> years
> or more. So a 6 year delay would increase the plant cost by $600 million 
> or
> more just for IDC. Then Nader etc. turned around and dishonestly said 
> "see,
> we told you they were too expensive" even though they caused the problem. 
> That's how the Nukes got a false bad rap on costs.
>
> Currently the operating nuclear power plants are valued at $1,730/kwe and
> the new simplified designs can be built for that price. By comparison, new
> coal plants are more expensive at $2000/kwe. Nuclear fuel (including 
> mining,
> enrichment, and fuel fab) is much cheaper than coal on a $ per Btu basis. 
> Any
> differences in operation & maintenance costs are insignificant by
> comparison. So the nuclear generated electricity is cheaper.
>
> The nuclear plant operators are taxed by the government to pay for waste
> processing activities. Decommissioning can be funded from the 40-50 years 
> of
> revenue from electricity sales and we have both civilian and military
> (nuclear sub) decommisioning experience.
>
> My experience has been in the design, performance, and economic analysis 
> of
> power plants, so I'll defer to DrMayf's hands-on experience regarding the
> other safety issues.
>
> Mayf--looks like we need to move on to LSR issues-- I'll be glad to 
> discuss
> the above with you off-list if you are so inclined.
>
> Lance
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "drmayf" >
>> Excuse me but you are wrong. I worked at Oak Ridge. K25 was the 
>> enrichment
>> palnt for all nuclear fuel. Power plant or bomb except that bombs  all 
>> now
>> use plutonium which is the by product of fast burning of uranium fuel.
>> Oak Ridge has mor e reactor ready materials for nuke plants than can be
>> used in a hundred years. Why? It was too costly to shut down.  As to 3
>> mile Island, yeah we were protecte but just barely. And at that there 
>> were
>> serious problems. The fuel had fractured and was in the process of
>> becoming the china syndrome before humans got enough water on it to cool
>> it down. I spent quite a lot of time in a nuke spent fuel plant looking
>> over the designs to assure safety. There is on eheck of a lot of liquid
>> wastes that have to go somewhere (nitric acid is one of the liquids).
>> Part of the bad rap on nukes is the unbelieveable costs involved with
>> building one. And them maintaining it. And then decommissioning it when
>> it's useful life ahs completed.  I did a lot of work for the US Senate
>> regarding spent fuel, nuclear waste, storage and reprocessing. Then I
>> spent a lot of time in oak ridge designing new and improved methods of
>> enriching uranium. I ahve some back f=ground here and your data just does
>> not fly.
>>
>> mayf

From jkamo at rushmore.com  Mon Jul 16 15:34:53 2007
From: jkamo at rushmore.com (jkamo)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:34:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
Message-ID: <469be47d.1bf.445c.2021991948@rushmore.com>

     it would be nice if the folks at the gate could write
down
 an impound entry time on EVERYONE's slip as they enter
 impound.....!!!!!!!!!!:):):):)
 having to enter, then stay out of folks way, and migrate
over to 
 tech trailer then try to find a MC tech guy not teching
vehicles to get
 an accurate time.......I have often lost time standing at
the trailer waiting  for tech guy...
  
 
----- Original Message Follows ----- 
From: dan warner  
To: Flowbench at aol.com, jon at infodestruction.com,
webmaster at landracing.com 
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net 
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR 
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:55:03 -0700 (PDT) 
 


>  The person manning the impound gate at Bonneville will
>  mark on the time slip the time you arrive. This is done
>  for the cars, I think the M/C guys just go over to the
M/C
>  tech trailer for sign in.
>     
>    DW
>  
>  Flowbench at aol.com wrote:
>    In a message dated 7/16/2007 7:08:30 AM Pacific
Standard
>  Time,  jon at infodestruction.com writes:
>  
> >   You know, now that I think about it, I don't remember
>    >   being checked  for the time when entering impound.
It's
> >   usually just a smile and a  wave in. One of the tech
> >   guys is happy to take my time slip and  initiate the
> >   paperwork -- but I'd think the person at the impound 
> >   entrance would be the person to note the time of
>  arrival. 
>  
>  Jon, the time of your run is on the timeslip. The tech
>  crew writes it down  when you give it to them. You're
just
>  always early. If your running late you  might want the
>     gate crew to note your time of entry, especially if
the
>  impound is  busy...

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Mon Jul 16 16:57:29 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:57:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Alternative Fuels>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <50C49F2C-252B-422A-993D-92DCD5DE0D71@infodestruction.com>
References: <071520071847.2548.469A6BDC000B84FA000009F422135285730101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<469A7A18.5010806@mayfco.com> <006801c7c75a$bab6ba70$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<03F2101B-89F1-4989-9B74-05D5A214E7CC@infodestruction.com>
	<469B8EF2.2060100@wildblue.net>
	<50C49F2C-252B-422A-993D-92DCD5DE0D71@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <469BF7D9.7080106@wildblue.net>

Thank you Jon, you are absolutely right.

We may never know what I was thinking about.
A senior moment I suppose....

Bryan (thanks for the URL Jon)



Jon Wennerberg wrote:
>
> On Jul 16, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Bryan Savage wrote:
>
> I thought the radioactive stuff in coal was Carbon 14.....??
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, you made me wonder -- so I looked it up. I found this in a USGS 
> factsheet:
>
> "Coal is largely composed of organic matter, but it is the inorganic 
> matter in coalminerals and trace elements that have been cited as 
> possible causes of health, environmental, and technological problems 
> associated with the use of coal. Some trace elements in coal are 
> naturally radioactive. These radioactive elements include uranium (U), 
> thorium (Th), and their numerous decay products, including radium (Ra) 
> and radon (Rn)."
>
> So there you have it -- there IS uranium in the coal. I didn't see any 
> mention of C14, though. . . If you want to read more, either Google it 
> yourself -- or follow this link:
>
> http://greenwood.cr.usgs.gov/energy/factshts/163-97/FS-163-97.html
>
> Jon Wennerberg
> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
> Marquette, Michigan
> (that's 'way up north)
>
> PS I think I'm going to the environmental stuff website for a while 
> this afternoon -- to see if they've got any land speed racing chit 
> chat going on.

From wmtsmith at cox.net  Mon Jul 16 17:29:13 2007
From: wmtsmith at cox.net (Wm. T. Smith)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:29:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] El Mirage
In-Reply-To: <469B836F.6040100@charter.net>
References: <469B836F.6040100@charter.net>
Message-ID: <1AB4A436B8934A32A4A855E83C7F6C2F@LMS>

The Ratical had a bad news good news story---I broke a dry sump belt----the 
good news was it was in the pits sunday Morning and not under way should not 
be any issue with eng damage---it was on start up..
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
-----  

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Jul 16 17:58:24 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:58:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] El Mirage
In-Reply-To: <1AB4A436B8934A32A4A855E83C7F6C2F@LMS>
References: <469B836F.6040100@charter.net>
	<1AB4A436B8934A32A4A855E83C7F6C2F@LMS>
Message-ID: <469C0620.3000800@mayfco.com>

So have you figured out why? Otherwise you my be at full boogie and have 
another one snap or what ever it did... find the reason.

mayf
Wm. T. Smith wrote:

>The Ratical had a bad news good news story---I broke a dry sump belt----the 
>good news was it was in the pits sunday Morning and not under way should not 
>be any issue with eng damage---it was on start up..
>      Sparky
>AA/_ L  2211
>-----  
>_______________________________________________

From v4gr at rcn.com  Mon Jul 16 18:10:55 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:10:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] El Mirage
References: <469B836F.6040100@charter.net><1AB4A436B8934A32A4A855E83C7F6C2F@LMS>
	<469C0620.3000800@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <000901c7c806$f214b1f0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Wm. T. Smith" <wmtsmith at cox.net>
Cc: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] El Mirage


> So have you figured out why? Otherwise you my be at full boogie and have
> another one snap or what ever it did... find the reason.
> Yeah. maybe something came loose and got in the rotor, jaming it and 
> breaking the belt. On my Plymouth I drove the fuel pump off the oil pump. 
> If the belt broke (never did) I hoped it would run out of gas before it 
> ran out of oil.  RF 

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Jul 16 18:51:27 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:51:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
In-Reply-To: <469be47d.1bf.445c.2021991948@rushmore.com>
References: <469be47d.1bf.445c.2021991948@rushmore.com>
Message-ID: <EBBE8BEC1FBD4F4A83A72A74E6EA8BAB@LMS>

Joe,   I found it strange that there were to different systems also---having 
no history with B'ville cycles---Russ and I didnt know who to look for---we 
almost got thrown out
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jkamo" <jkamo at rushmore.com>
To: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; <Flowbench at aol.com>; 
<jon at infodestruction.com>; <webmaster at landracing.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] New course buzz LSR


>     it would be nice if the folks at the gate could write
> down
> an impound entry time on EVERYONE's slip as they enter
> impound.....!!!!!!!!!!:):):):)
> having to enter, then stay out of folks way, and migrate
> over to
> tech trailer then try to find a MC tech guy not teching
> vehicles to get
> an accurate time.......I have often lost time standing at
> the trailer waiting  for tech guy...
>
>
> ----- Original Message Follows ----- 
> From: dan warner
> To: Flowbench at aol.com, jon at infodestruction.com,
> webmaster at landracing.com
> Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:55:03 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>
>>  The person manning the impound gate at Bonneville will
>>  mark on the time slip the time you arrive. This is done
>>  for the cars, I think the M/C guys just go over to the
> M/C
>>  tech trailer for sign in.
>>
>>    DW
>>
>>  Flowbench at aol.com wrote:
>>    In a message dated 7/16/2007 7:08:30 AM Pacific
> Standard
>>  Time,  jon at infodestruction.com writes:
>>
>> >   You know, now that I think about it, I don't remember
>>    >   being checked  for the time when entering impound.
> It's
>> >   usually just a smile and a  wave in. One of the tech
>> >   guys is happy to take my time slip and  initiate the
>> >   paperwork -- but I'd think the person at the impound
>> >   entrance would be the person to note the time of
>>  arrival.
>>
>>  Jon, the time of your run is on the timeslip. The tech
>>  crew writes it down  when you give it to them. You're
> just
>>  always early. If your running late you  might want the
>>     gate crew to note your time of entry, especially if
> the
>>  impound is  busy...
> _______________________________________________
> sparky.2211 at cox.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Jul 16 18:55:26 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:55:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] El Mirage
In-Reply-To: <000901c7c806$f214b1f0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
References: <469B836F.6040100@charter.net><1AB4A436B8934A32A4A855E83C7F6C2F@LMS><469C0620.3000800@mayfco.com>
	<000901c7c806$f214b1f0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <35154E1246714C8AB4914D490D9CC051@LMS>

then dont buy a moroso pump---they dont have that option available..
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Fox" <v4gr at rcn.com>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "Wm. T. Smith" <wmtsmith at cox.net>
Cc: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] El Mirage


> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "Wm. T. Smith" <wmtsmith at cox.net>
> Cc: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 4:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] El Mirage
>
>
>> So have you figured out why? Otherwise you my be at full boogie and have
>> another one snap or what ever it did... find the reason.
>> Yeah. maybe something came loose and got in the rotor, jaming it and
>> breaking the belt. On my Plymouth I drove the fuel pump off the oil pump.
>> If the belt broke (never did) I hoped it would run out of gas before it
>> ran out of oil.  RF
> _______________________________________________
> sparky.2211 at cox.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jon at infodestruction.com  Tue Jul 17 06:39:02 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:39:02 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
In-Reply-To: <469be47d.1bf.445c.2021991948@rushmore.com>
References: <469be47d.1bf.445c.2021991948@rushmore.com>
Message-ID: <35173ACB-5016-441E-90D1-3C48009CEBFD@infodestruction.com>

On Jul 16, 2007, at 5:34 PM, jkamo wrote:

it would be nice if the folks at the gate could write down

an impound entry time on EVERYONE's slip as they enter

impound.....!!!!!!!!!!:):):):)

having to enter, then stay out of folks way, and migrate over to

tech trailer then try to find a MC tech guy not teching vehicles to get

an accurate time.......I have often lost time standing at the trailer  
waiting for tech guy...




With all due respect to others -- Hey, Joe, it's good to see that  
someone got my point.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 17 11:06:55 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:06:55 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
Message-ID: <25793437.1184692015514.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Jon W, it sounds funny to me the M/C's would not have had the same thing happen to them that happens to the cars when entering the impound gate. My time was always written down as I stopped at the entrance. The guy has a table and an umbrella. Maybe I'm missing something here where the M/C inspection team want each competitor too check in with them too.  Maybe the M/C guys don't stop at the gate or are told during inspection that they are to check in only with the inspection trailer. I'll see Russ and Tom at the Friday meeting and ask them. 

Just remember that even tho I'm back this year you still have the Heads until you find someone else :<)...J.D. 

>
>it would be nice if the folks at the gate could write down
>
>an impound entry time on EVERYONE's slip as they enter
>
>impound.....!!!!!!!!!!:):):):)
>
>having to enter, then stay out of folks way, and migrate over to
>
>tech trailer then try to find a MC tech guy not teching vehicles to get
>
>an accurate time.......I have often lost time standing at the trailer  
>waiting for tech guy...

From jon at infodestruction.com  Tue Jul 17 11:22:46 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:22:46 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
In-Reply-To: <25793437.1184692015514.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <25793437.1184692015514.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ACBB3863-52F0-4925-8E8B-C457A9A0F608@infodestruction.com>

On Jul 17, 2007, at 1:06 PM, James Tone wrote:

Jon W, it sounds funny to me the M/C's would not have had the same  
thing happen to them that happens to the cars when entering the  
impound gate. My time was always written down as I stopped at the  
entrance. The guy has a table and an umbrella. Maybe I'm missing  
something here where the M/C inspection team want each competitor too  
check in with them too.  Maybe the M/C guys don't stop at the gate or  
are told during inspection that they are to check in only with the  
inspection trailer. I'll see Russ and Tom at the Friday meeting and  
ask them.

Just remember that even tho I'm back this year you still have the  
Heads until you find someone else :<)...J.D.





J.D:

Not that we've gone to impound all that many times -- but more than  
just a few times -- at the "gate" we'd slow down to say hi and get  
the slip signed -- and we'd get waved through without having to stop  
for a signature or check of the timing slip.  We both know that we're  
supposed to check in -- but it hasn't been required of us each and  
every time.  Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I do make sure once we're in impound -- usually before I take the  
time to park the rig -- that I scurry over to the bike trailer and  
get someone to log us in so there is an official time of arrival on  
the slip/paperwork.

I don't tell folks NOT to stop at the gate when I'm inspecting, and I  
don't remember getting told that, either.  Yes, please -- get Russ  
and Tom together so all the racers are playing on the same field.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

PS  Whaddaya mean, find someone else -- to be the official Potentate  
of Porta Potties?  You think I'd give up that honorable title without  
a struggle?

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Jul 17 11:25:21 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:25:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] MC check in
Message-ID: <41160378188C40E9BB69BE70A822A368@LMS>

JD,  the 2 years I CC for Russ Mack's PP/MC you had to GO Find on of the MC
guys---and you had better not start on any thing untill you "Found"  one of
them and they "started the clock"---almost cost us a record because we "did"
it like cars
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Jul 17 13:08:12 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (wester6935 at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:08:12 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Cool BBQ we need for Salt Talks
Message-ID: <071720071908.29387.469D139C0008A72C000072CB2207020853CACCC7C09D0A9B9C0A99@comcast.net>

I can just see Sparky slaving over this barbecue.

Wes

-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: "Stan Wanlass" <pursangt38 at gmail.com>
To: wester6935 at comcast.net, 
Subject: Fwd: Cool BBQ
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:27:42 +0000
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Steven M. Serr <serrcnstco at dslextreme.com>
> Date: Jul 16, 2007 11:08 PM
> Subject: Cool BBQ
> To: Undisclosed-Recipient
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chevy

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Jul 17 15:58:02 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:58:02 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Chat tonight
Message-ID: <019c01c7c8bd$8c1acfd0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Don't forget the chat tonight at 7:00pm mountain time.

From Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Tue Jul 17 20:53:26 2007
From: Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 02:53:26 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Petrol breakdown, not LSR
Message-ID: <071820070253.7578.469D80A60005BAFF00001D9A22058861729C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>

I got to thinking that Dave might be right, he usually is, dammit, so I nosed around the web and found 47% of crude becomes gasoline, 23% becomes home heating oil/ diesel, 10% jet fuel, 4% propane, 18% other products like chemicals and plastics.
Nearly 60% of what we use is imported.
I couldn't find the ratio of fuels used by power plants. I'm clueless as to how much oil is used by them, maybe not alot compared to coal, gas, nukes and hydro.
Hard to fold in natural gas usage. I'm not sure there's a looming problem there anyway. BJ

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Jul 17 21:39:46 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 03:39:46 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
Message-ID: <W298932176641571184729986@webmail32>

Like J.D. says, there is always somebody at the table at the
impoundgate........ Maybe people just make the turn and don't stop?
Ed



>-----Original Message-----
>From: James Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:06 AM
>To: 'Jon Wennerberg', jkamo at rushmore.com
>Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net, Flowbench at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] New course buzz LSR
>
>Jon W, it sounds funny to me the M/C's would not have had the samething
happen to them that happens to the cars when entering the impoundgate. My time
was always written down as I stopped at the entrance. Theguy has a table and
an umbrella. Maybe I'm missing something here wherethe M/C inspection team
want each competitor too check in with themtoo. Maybe the M/C guys don't stop
at the gate or are told duringinspection that they are to check in only with
the inspection trailer.I'll see Russ and Tom at the Friday meeting and ask
them.
>
>Just remember that even tho I'm back this year you still have the Heads until
you find someone else :<)...J.D.
>
>>
>>it would be nice if the folks at the gate could write down
>>
>>an impound entry time on EVERYONE's slip as they enter
>>
>>impound.....!!!!!!!!!!:):):):)
>>
>>having to enter, then stay out of folks way, and migrate over to
>>
>>tech trailer then try to find a MC tech guy not teching vehicles to get
>>
>>an accurate time.......I have often lost time standing at the trailer
>>waiting for tech guy...

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 17 21:44:18 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:44:18 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Petrol breakdown, not LSR
References: <071820070253.7578.469D80A60005BAFF00001D9A22058861729C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000201c7c8ed$f31236d0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Of the total input energy (coal, nuclear, natural gas, hydro, and others)
used by power plants to generate electricity, oil is only a tiny percentage.

I used to do a lot of work with those numbers.

You can find those numbers by starting with the Department of Energy's web
site but you have to work your way through a lot of stuff to find it--the
numbers are updated annually.

>From memory, approximately: nuke ~ 20%, coal ~ 50%, natural gas is next
biggie, hydro ~ 5%, solar & wind ~ 1%  This is electrical generation only.

Natural gas could be a looming supply and price problem, we are importing 
increasing amounts of the stuff because of environmental restrictions on 
tapping our own off shore. Us people in the north who use it for home 
heating have seen major price increases in the last few years--could get 
chilly for us.

Lance




----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net>
To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:53 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Petrol breakdown, not LSR


>I got to thinking that Dave might be right, he usually is, dammit, so I
>nosed around the web and found 47% of crude becomes gasoline, 23% becomes
>home heating oil/ diesel, 10% jet fuel, 4% propane, 18% other products like
>chemicals and plastics.
> Nearly 60% of what we use is imported.
> I couldn't find the ratio of fuels used by power plants. I'm clueless as
> to how much oil is used by them, maybe not alot compared to coal, gas,
> nukes and hydro.
> Hard to fold in natural gas usage. I'm not sure there's a looming problem
> there anyway. BJ
> _______________________________________________
> jolylance at earthlink.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Jul 17 22:21:32 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:21:32 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Petrol breakdown, not LSR
References: <071820070253.7578.469D80A60005BAFF00001D9A22058861729C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
	<000201c7c8ed$f31236d0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <002b01c7c8f3$22431be0$6501a8c0@S>

Just for grins-- Here in California for electric power we do about 25%
nuclear, 10-20% hydroelectric, a small amount of solar, wind power and
geothermal, maybe less than 10%.  The rest is natural gas. NO COAL ALLOWED
IN CALIFORNIA.  At my house (Bay area, 1000ft elevation) we run about 4000
degree days per winter for heating with a min temp around 30F.  Summer
maximums are running maybe 15-20 days over 100F (10-15% humidity) when we
need to air condition for a few hours. Fortunately in our dry climate it
cools down 20-30 degrees at night in the summer. With my graduated PG&E
electric costs we end up paying 38 cents per KWH for electricity when we air
condition or couldn't use the pellet stove in the winter during pellet fuel
shortages.  That's right, 38 cents per KWH!   Really stings.  Stove pellets
here run about $325 a ton which last for my 1400 sq ft house about 3/4 of
the winter season.  Not all that impossible though.  What hurts more is the
prospect of a $1000 gasoline cost to tow a race car to the Salt, run around
there for 7 days and tow home.
Ed Weldon  Los Gatos, CA

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joseph lance" <jolylance at earthlink.net>
To: "Landspeed" <Land-speed at Autox.team.net>; <Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Petrol breakdown, not LSR


> Of the total input energy (coal, nuclear, natural gas, hydro, and others)
> used by power plants to generate electricity, oil is only a tiny
percentage.
> I used to do a lot of work with those numbers.
> You can find those numbers by starting with the Department of Energy's web
> site but you have to work your way through a lot of stuff to find it--the
> numbers are updated annually.
> >From memory, approximately: nuke ~ 20%, coal ~ 50%, natural gas is next
> biggie, hydro ~ 5%, solar & wind ~ 1%  This is electrical generation only.
> Natural gas could be a looming supply and price problem, we are importing
> increasing amounts of the stuff because of environmental restrictions on
> tapping our own off shore. Us people in the north who use it for home
> heating have seen major price increases in the last few years--could get
> chilly for us.
> Lance

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Wed Jul 18 05:42:25 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 04:42:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Petrol breakdown, not LSR
In-Reply-To: <071820070253.7578.469D80A60005BAFF00001D9A22058861729C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
References: <071820070253.7578.469D80A60005BAFF00001D9A22058861729C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <469DFCA1.90701@wildblue.net>

We're in better shape with crude than natural gas.
I think all of the power plants in California run on NG.
Most California NG comes from Canada.
Bryan


Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net wrote:
> I got to thinking that Dave might be right, he usually is, dammit, so I nosed around the web and found 47% of crude becomes gasoline, 23% becomes home heating oil/ diesel, 10% jet fuel, 4% propane, 18% other products like chemicals and plastics.
> Nearly 60% of what we use is imported.
> I couldn't find the ratio of fuels used by power plants. I'm clueless as to how much oil is used by them, maybe not alot compared to coal, gas, nukes and hydro.
> Hard to fold in natural gas usage. I'm not sure there's a looming problem there anyway. BJ

From Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Wed Jul 18 06:58:56 2007
From: Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:58:56 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Petrol Useage
Message-ID: <071820071258.7469.469E0E90000C519F00001D2D22007510909C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>

So we can say that about 75% of petroleum use goes for transportation and not be far wrong. Some years ago I got an oil burner license and hung out with a classroom of oil guys for alot of nights. They referred to natural gas usage and "being on the pipe" as being captive to that pricing without recourse. I'm getting so I think there may be something conspiritorial to it. BJ

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Wed Jul 18 09:21:20 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:21:20 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Petrol breakdown, not LSR
References: <071820070253.7578.469D80A60005BAFF00001D9A22058861729C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
	<000201c7c8ed$f31236d0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
	<002b01c7c8f3$22431be0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <469E2FEF.000004.02032@TOM>

I feel fortunate to live in Redding CA. I am not up to speed on the cost per
KW, (my wife pays those bills),  but I do know that our rates are much lower
than P.G.E. Redding has an agreement with the Shasta Dam Generation for
power, plus we have had some visionaries in the power department that
acquired and built generation plants so that they actually export power to
other areas most of the time.

I understand that P.G.E. Is abandoning many of the hydroelectric facilities,
this having to do with an agreement when they were coming out of bankruptcy.
Maybe some one on line knows something about the reasons for this. I am
puzzled!

We installed a new Central A/C & Heating (gas) Unit at our home this past
year. It is amazing how much energy can be saved by simply updating this
type of equipment. We cut our consumption by at least 25%. A lot of power
can also be saved by changing lighting. My thought is that if we want to
preserve our present lifestyle, we must have a mind for conservation.

The end of May, I journeyed back to Rock Port MO to see family and attend my
60th High School Graduation Bash. At the Banquet, the mayor spoke and told
us that Rock Port would receive 100 %
Of its power from wind generation by the end of the year. The first
town/city in the US to do so. They are also building an Alcohol Plant and
Bio-Diesel Plant. I suspect that other communities are making moves in the
direction also. Particularly in the Midwest where the wind is dependable and
the corn grows tall.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: Ed Weldon
Date: 7/17/2007 9:21:37 PM
To: joseph lance;  Landspeed;  Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Petrol breakdown, not LSR

Just for grins-- Here in California for electric power we do about 25%
nuclear, 10-20% hydroelectric, a small amount of solar, wind power and
Geothermal, maybe less than 10%.  The rest is natural gas. NO COAL ALLOWED
IN CALIFORNIA.  At my house (Bay area, 1000ft elevation) we run about 4000
degree days per winter for heating with a min temp around 30F.  Summer
maximums are running maybe 15-20 days over 100F (10-15% humidity) when we
Need to air condition for a few hours. Fortunately in our dry climate it
cools down 20-30 degrees at night in the summer. With my graduated PG&E
electric costs we end up paying 38 cents per KWH for electricity when we air
condition or couldn't use the pellet stove in the winter during pellet fuel
shortages.  That's right, 38 cents per KWH!   Really stings.  Stove pellets
here run about $325 a ton which last for my 1400 sq ft house about 3/4 of
the winter season.  Not all that impossible though.  What hurts more is the
prospect of a $1000 gasoline cost to tow a race car to the Salt, run around
there for 7 days and tow home.
Ed Weldon  Los Gatos, CA

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From gary at arrowracing.org  Wed Jul 18 12:42:34 2007
From: gary at arrowracing.org (Gary C. Hensley)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:42:34 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] My Ford Shovel
Message-ID: <004101c7c96b$6836e460$1200a8c0@Presario2100>

Glen, you know with that many pictures of the shovel it had to Rick's
idea...
Gary C Hensley
Phone: 248-670-0883 
Team Arrow Racing #1150B 
World Land Speed Record Holder
S-G-650  210.728 mph August 21, 2004
Fastest 500 cc Motorcycle on the Planet 228.559mph August 18, 2006 
HYPERLINK "http://www.arrowracing.org/"http://www.arrowracing.org/
 

 

-- 
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007
5:44 PM

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[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of tech.gif]

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Jul 18 13:13:04 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:13:04 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] My Ford Shovel
References: <004101c7c96b$6836e460$1200a8c0@Presario2100>
Message-ID: <00d801c7c96f$aaef22a0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Gary
Wonder why it was behind the driver, is it a pooper scooper for scary rides.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary C. Hensley" <gary at arrowracing.org>
To: "LandSpeed Digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:42 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] My Ford Shovel


> Glen, you know with that many pictures of the shovel it had to Rick's
> idea...
> Gary C Hensley
> Phone: 248-670-0883
> Team Arrow Racing #1150B
> World Land Speed Record Holder
> S-G-650  210.728 mph August 21, 2004
> Fastest 500 cc Motorcycle on the Planet 228.559mph August 18, 2006
> HYPERLINK "http://www.arrowracing.org/"http://www.arrowracing.org/
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007
> 5:44 PM
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> 201.276sm.jpg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 
> tech.gif]
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gary at arrowracing.org  Wed Jul 18 13:29:39 2007
From: gary at arrowracing.org (Gary C. Hensley)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:29:39 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] My Ford Shovel
Message-ID: <004a01c7c971$fc930750$1200a8c0@Presario2100>

Glen, that does not paint a very pretty picture does it?
Gary C Hensley
Phone: 248-670-0883 
Team Arrow Racing #1150B 
World Land Speed Record Holder
S-G-650  210.728 mph August 21, 2004
Fastest 500 cc Motorcycle on the Planet 228.559mph August 18, 2006 
HYPERLINK "http://www.arrowracing.org/"http://www.arrowracing.org/
 

 

-- 
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007
5:44 PM

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 201.276sm.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of tech.gif]

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Jul 18 14:01:12 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:01:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR doins
Message-ID: <5DEBD8001AD44C85AEAFA19C7FA00577@LMS>

well---not as fast as a top fuel team---but I got the eng. & dry sump tank out
in less than 3 hours---first time out for the new systems.

I am changing the Alt. drive and installing heaters in the dry sump tank. and
tryin to figure out som sort of pre oiler drive. for the dry sump pump.


      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Jul 18 17:02:55 2007
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:02:55 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] My Ford Shovel
In-Reply-To: <004101c7c96b$6836e460$1200a8c0@Presario2100>
References: <004101c7c96b$6836e460$1200a8c0@Presario2100>
Message-ID: <81AB165DBDD940778306493F20DCCE14@ChrisHarrisPC>

Hi Gary,
Really enjoyed your site. Great to see the inner construction of your record
setter, terrific work.
Looking at your footage, that crash seemed so instant, like no time to react,
makes all that expert construction worth the effort.
All the best for Speedweek, will catch up again in 08 my friend.
Chris Harris.........New Zealand.

Gary C Hensley
Phone: 248-670-0883
Team Arrow Racing #1150B
World Land Speed Record Holder
S-G-650  210.728 mph August 21, 2004
Fastest 500 cc Motorcycle on the Planet 228.559mph August 18, 2006
HYPERLINK "http://www.arrowracing.org/"http://www.arrowracing.org/

From jkamo at rushmore.com  Wed Jul 18 17:17:03 2007
From: jkamo at rushmore.com (jkamo)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:17:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR
Message-ID: <469e9f6f.120.89b.1240353458@rushmore.com>

     its funny that it sounds funny ....:):):)
 thats right the bike guys couldnt check in at the impound
entrance to 
 get an impound arrival time.....
 we have/had to pull in,  negotiate parking the vehicle,
then find a mc  tech
 inspector to check in with......... and get the time that
you found  them, they have 
 been very hospitable, just the logistics seemed odd
 Thankfully Dan the man Warner is having pitty on some of us
mc types
 and is throwing us a bone by helping out in having this
addressed...
 he was  a "SCTA man of the year" for VERY good reason...
  
 
----- Original Message Follows ----- 
From: James Tone  
To: Jon Wennerberg , jkamo at rushmore.com 
Cc: Flowbench at aol.com, land-speed at autox.team.net 
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] New course buzz  LSR 
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:06:55 -0700 (GMT-07:00) 
 


>  Jon W, it sounds funny to me the M/C's would not have had
>     the same thing happen to them that happens to the cars
>  when entering the impound gate. My time was always
written
>  down as I stopped at the entrance. The guy has a table
and
>  an umbrella. Maybe I'm missing something here where the
>  M/C inspection team want each competitor too check in
with
>  them too.  Maybe the M/C guys don't stop at the gate or
>     are told during inspection that they are to check in
only
>  with the inspection trailer. I'll see Russ and Tom at the
>  Friday meeting and ask them. 
>  
>  Just remember that even tho I'm back this year you still
> have the Heads until you find someone else:<)...J.D. 
>     
> >  
>  >it would be nice if the folks at the gate could write
> down     > 
>  >an impound entry time on EVERYONE's slip as they enter
> >  
>     >impound.....!!!!!!!!!!:):):):)
> >  
>  >having to enter, then stay out of folks way, and migrate
> over  to > 
>     >tech trailer then try to find a MC tech guy not
teching
> vehicles  to get > 
>     >an accurate time.......I have often lost time
standing at
>  the trailer   >waiting for tech guy...

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Wed Jul 18 17:25:07 2007
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:25:07 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR doins
In-Reply-To: <5DEBD8001AD44C85AEAFA19C7FA00577@LMS>
References: <5DEBD8001AD44C85AEAFA19C7FA00577@LMS>
Message-ID: <E5D7F67BA9C34904A8C3449EEDBCB18E@ChrisHarrisPC>

Sparky, you can get ratchet drive dry sump gears that allow you to spin the
pump while still belted to a non running engine.
Check pump & associated gear manufacturers.
Chris H............NZed.


  I am changing the Alt. drive and installing heaters in the dry sump tank.
and
  tryin to figure out som sort of pre oiler drive. for the dry sump pump.

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Jul 18 17:54:43 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:54:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR doins
In-Reply-To: <E5D7F67BA9C34904A8C3449EEDBCB18E@ChrisHarrisPC>
References: <5DEBD8001AD44C85AEAFA19C7FA00577@LMS>
	<E5D7F67BA9C34904A8C3449EEDBCB18E@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <43EC400D2B224CC28D7D952CB6761555@LMS>

Chris, Doug Odom also suggested that--- CV Products used to handle it ---seems
like Stewart is no longer making it.  Petersen may look into it.  thanks
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Chris Harris
  To: Sparky ; AA List
  Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:25 PM

From Nt788 at aol.com  Wed Jul 18 21:19:44 2007
From: Nt788 at aol.com (Nt788 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:19:44 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Corn and Ethanol, not LSR
Message-ID: <d3d.da6ddde.33d03250@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/15/2007 7:59:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jon.the.wise at gmail.com writes:

Course,  this would solve too many issues that our nation faces all at
once, so the  restrictive government that's slowly taken over couldn't
possibly allow  that!



They must be doing it for us! Jack



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From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Fri Jul 20 13:51:25 2007
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:51:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Busy???
Message-ID: <20070720195151.D469C187A29@autox.team.net>

Well, I'm doing some stuff on the trailer and getting ready to fire 
the liner and check all the systems out.
Is there any body out there?
Skip

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Jul 20 14:00:24 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:00:24 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Busy???
References: <20070720195151.D469C187A29@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <001b01c7cb08$9c6944f0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Just the timer, Hi Skip say hi to the desert rats over in Pahrump.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Busy???


> Well, I'm doing some stuff on the trailer and getting ready to fire 
> the liner and check all the systems out.
> Is there any body out there?
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Jimwprice at aol.com  Fri Jul 20 17:04:08 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:04:08 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Busy???
Message-ID: <c0c.1b82ab8e.33d29968@aol.com>

The truck is ready to go, lashed down in the new enclosed trailer and I am  
going through the "To take list" to make sure everything that is really  needed 
 has a good place for storage.     



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From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Jul 20 21:09:40 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 21:09:40 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt flats rain
Message-ID: <f7f38e94e70395cf150ffe1e8c6ce9c5@comcast.net>

The TV news reported a .75 rain reading in Wendover last Wednesday.  
That's great to help the courses firm up.  The salt is pretty hard and 
that should help the top surface.  With 102 degree temperatures and 
humidity under 20 percent that amount of water on the salt won't last 
very long.

Wes

From vcviking at wildblue.net  Sun Jul 22 07:40:41 2007
From: vcviking at wildblue.net (MR VIKING)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 06:40:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wendover rooms
Message-ID: <000a01c7cc65$eac59910$89cd2946@Dellie>

Being a Jonnie come lately, I don't seem to be able to crack the code on how
to get a room at Wendover.  I hear that they will not reserve a room till
April 1, 2008, but if you call at 0600 hrs on April 1st, all the rooms are
gone?????

Does it make since for the "seasoned" salt flat folks to try to get the Hotels
to reserve rooms for us now (for 2008) if we were willing to pay for them on a
non refundable cash up front basis????  Might they even give a "racer's cash
discount"???

Can you please help me break the code?????     Jon Landen
vcviking at wildblue.net

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Jul 22 08:21:16 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 07:21:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wendover rooms
In-Reply-To: <000a01c7cc65$eac59910$89cd2946@Dellie>
References: <000a01c7cc65$eac59910$89cd2946@Dellie>
Message-ID: <46A367DC.9050208@wildblue.net>

Jon,

Wendover is a Gambling destination. The casino's don't make money
on renting rooms. They only want GAMBLERS loosing $100.00 a day
or more in their rooms.
Racer' cash discount -- not a prayer, raise the rates to keep us out, of 
course.

The Motel's are a little bit better, but to support the local economy
they would rather have GAMBLERS.

If I was running the casinos, I would try to force the racers to come later
in the year when they can't fill their rooms. Remember, that would not
be mean or nasty, just good business.

I will not be coming to Speedweek. I don't want to stay in Salt Lake City
and commute 115 miles every day. Maybe next year. I might make the
World of Speed meet in September.

OBTW there is a list of all Wendover motel's in the back of "The Rule 
Book".

Bryan Savage

From jon at infodestruction.com  Sun Jul 22 11:11:28 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:11:28 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt Flats Cafe
Message-ID: <C90CC584-63E0-4708-8D4D-C281413F3062@infodestruction.com>

Hey there, racer-folk.  Does anyone have -- and if so, are you  
willing to share -- the MAILING address for the Salt Flats Cafe, a/k/ 
a "the Mexican restaurant" at the Exit 4 truckstop?

I've got something I want to mail to the cafe -- need the addy.  Thanks.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Jul 22 11:20:21 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:20:21 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt Flats Cafe
References: <C90CC584-63E0-4708-8D4D-C281413F3062@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c7cc84$95ef0f10$6401a8c0@Glens>

Jon
Their business cards shows the following.
Marcelo Escobar

Salt Flats Cafe
I-80  exit 4
Wendover,Utah 84383

Glen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Wennerberg" <jon at infodestruction.com>
To: "land-speed-digest List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 11:11 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt Flats Cafe


> Hey there, racer-folk.  Does anyone have -- and if so, are you  
> willing to share -- the MAILING address for the Salt Flats Cafe, a/k/ 
> a "the Mexican restaurant" at the Exit 4 truckstop?
> 
> I've got something I want to mail to the cafe -- need the addy.  Thanks.
> 
>                 Jon Wennerberg
> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>              Marquette, Michigan
>              (that's 'way up north)
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 22 13:07:44 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 12:07:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] BBC Cooling System
Message-ID: <710514.31673.qm@web30709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Who uses thermostats, and who uses restrictors?  If a restrictor, what size hole?
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas

       
---------------------------------
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. 

From jkamo at rushmore.com  Sun Jul 22 18:17:35 2007
From: jkamo at rushmore.com (jkamo)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:17:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wendover rooms
Message-ID: <46a3f39f.fd.7c04.1794658111@rushmore.com>

     every year since 91'.....we havent had  any trouble
getting
 a place to stay during SW......
 dont have alot of money.......do have some
persistence.......
 Joe :) 
 
----- Original Message Follows ----- 
From: "MR VIKING"  
To: "Landspeed"  
Subject: [Land-speed] Wendover rooms 
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 06:40:41 -0700 
 


>  Being a Jonnie come lately, I don't seem to be able to
>  crack the code on how to get a room at Wendover.  I hear
>  that they will not reserve a room till April 1, 2008, but
>  if you call at 0600 hrs on April 1st, all the rooms are
>  gone?????
>  
>  Does it make since for the "seasoned" salt flat folks to
>  try to get the Hotels to reserve rooms for us now (for
>  2008) if we were willing to pay for them on a non
>  refundable cash up front basis????  Might they even give
a
>  "racer's cash discount"???

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Jul 22 21:32:04 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:32:04 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] BBC Cooling System
Message-ID: <c31.1720e3d5.33d57b34@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/22/2007 1:08:00 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
lsr_man at yahoo.com writes:

Who uses  thermostats, and who uses restrictors?  If a restrictor, what size  
hole?

DickJ
In East  Texas




Hi DickJ
 
I run a 180 degree thermostat in the Lakester but I run a 5/8" up to a 3/4"  
diameter restrictor's in my drag and roundy round cars.
 
My theory is get the Lakester up to running temp quicker with the  thermostat 
but in the other race cars, which typically are already warm from  time 
trials, track packing and hot laps, so I want to cool the engine the  whole time 
it's running and I don't have to worry about a stuck thermostat  taking me out. 
Also I circulate the water through the radiator in the pits with  an electric 
water pump and having a thermostat in these cars would stop the flow  during 
cool down.
 
Some theorists says never run a restrictor as the engine should always run  a 
thermostat to "regulate" the engine temp.... I totally agree with getting it  
up to running temp as quickly as possible as more engine wear happens during 
the  first 60 seconds of the engine running than it would incur on a 100 mile  
trip.
 
That's also why it's a bad idea to warm up your car by letting it idle for  
long periods before you drive it on cold winter mornings. Some people think 
they  are doing the engine a favor warming it up before driving it but that's not 
the  case.
 
Otto



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From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Jul 22 21:59:15 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:59:15 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Wendover rooms or lack there of
Message-ID: <c4b.18e7f72b.33d58193@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/22/2007 6:17:57 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
jkamo at rushmore.com writes:

every  year since 91'.....we havent had  any trouble
getting
a place to  stay during SW......
dont have alot of money.......do have  some
persistence.......
Joe :) 




List
 
The beauty of camping in an RV as opposed to staying in rooms is you never  
have to worry about making reservations as it's no problem finding camping  
space at "the hip place to stay", the Bend in the Road. The "rates" there never  
go up during SW and the number one reason to camp there, you can't get a  DWI 
getting home from the Salt Talks!!!
 
Otto



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From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Jul 22 22:59:44 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 00:59:44 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] BBC Cooling System, part 2
Message-ID: <c64.15a2148d.33d58fc0@aol.com>

Hi  DickJ

I run a 180 degree thermostat in the Lakester but I run a 5/8" up  to a 3/4"  
diameter restrictor's in my drag and roundy round  cars.





Part 2
 
The size hole for each application is determined from trial and error  based 
on the capabilities of your cooling system to transfer heat.
 
I want to run the engine as hot as possible without getting into  detonation, 
melt down or heat related oil failure. 
 
Heat is HP,,, to a point. 
 
I find 220 a nice "safe place" to run. I don't like to go over 230-240 on a  
regular basis, unless it's the last lap and I'm leading, then I run it till  
meltdown!!! I'm just going from esperience on those temps.
 
DickJ, I got to looking at your handle. My "dick" looked like a "J" once.  
I'm on a MC trip from Chi to Boston. I meet a lovely lady at the bar who  digs 
my scooter and we head back to her place. We're both frantically  stripping 
down and I realize I need to take out my contact lenses before I  forget and glue 
my eyes shut during the night. I rush up to her waist high  dresser which has 
a full mirror behind it. It also had the top drawer open. My  "special 
purpose" hung over the open drawer until I bent over to  get a closer look in the 
mirror at which time it went in the drawer just as I  leaned forward, closing 
the drawer shut! And I mean SHUT! I jumped back in pain  which freed "Big 
Willie" when "it" stretched out and pulled the drawer open....  Ouch! It still hurts 
me when I think about it!!! Fortunately the "J" bend  straightened out very 
quickly!
 
True story.
Otto



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From webmaster at landracing.com  Sun Jul 22 23:23:23 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:23:23 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] BBC Cooling System, part 2
In-Reply-To: <c64.15a2148d.33d58fc0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEIEHADFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Thanks for that Otto, now ill proceed to claw me eyes out to get that image
out of my head..

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Askotto at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 11:00 PM
To: lsr_man at yahoo.com
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] BBC Cooling System, part 2


Hi  DickJ

I run a 180 degree thermostat in the Lakester but I run a 5/8" up  to a 3/4"
diameter restrictor's in my drag and roundy round  cars.





Part 2

The size hole for each application is determined from trial and error  based
on the capabilities of your cooling system to transfer heat.

I want to run the engine as hot as possible without getting into
detonation,
melt down or heat related oil failure.

Heat is HP,,, to a point.

I find 220 a nice "safe place" to run. I don't like to go over 230-240 on a
regular basis, unless it's the last lap and I'm leading, then I run it till
meltdown!!! I'm just going from esperience on those temps.

DickJ, I got to looking at your handle. My "dick" looked like a "J" once.
I'm on a MC trip from Chi to Boston. I meet a lovely lady at the bar who
digs
my scooter and we head back to her place. We're both frantically  stripping
down and I realize I need to take out my contact lenses before I  forget and
glue
my eyes shut during the night. I rush up to her waist high  dresser which
has
a full mirror behind it. It also had the top drawer open. My  "special
purpose" hung over the open drawer until I bent over to  get a closer look
in the
mirror at which time it went in the drawer just as I  leaned forward,
closing
the drawer shut! And I mean SHUT! I jumped back in pain  which freed "Big
Willie" when "it" stretched out and pulled the drawer open....  Ouch! It
still hurts
me when I think about it!!! Fortunately the "J" bend  straightened out very
quickly!

True story.
Otto

From saltfevr at mail.sisna.com  Mon Jul 23 10:19:28 2007
From: saltfevr at mail.sisna.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:19:28 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] test
Message-ID: <200707231019.AA2193948870@mail.sisna.com>

I know everyone is busy wrenching for SW. No posts in a few days?Gotta have my fix!just wonderin' if this gizmo is still up & flying?




Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah 
 
_________________________________
SISNA...more service, less money.
http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/ 

From jon at infodestruction.com  Mon Jul 23 10:21:54 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:21:54 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] test
In-Reply-To: <200707231019.AA2193948870@mail.sisna.com>
References: <200707231019.AA2193948870@mail.sisna.com>
Message-ID: <32AD0D84-0EED-41BC-9462-0AEDC5D0C696@infodestruction.com>

On Jul 23, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Tom Shannon wrote:

I know everyone is busy wrenching for SW. No posts in a few days? 
Gotta have my fix!just wonderin' if this gizmo is still up & flying?




Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah




They're not wrenching, they're out exercising to work up an appeitite  
for Salt Talks.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

PS  Yeah, it's working all the way to Marquette, at least.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Jul 23 10:22:35 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:22:35 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] test
References: <200707231019.AA2193948870@mail.sisna.com>
Message-ID: <000901c7cd45$ae4f7970$6401a8c0@Glens>

Tom
It's working, just people getting ready for a salt fix. Say hi to Cathy, see 
you in a few days.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Shannon" <saltfevr at mail.sisna.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] test


>I know everyone is busy wrenching for SW. No posts in a few days?Gotta have 
>my fix!just wonderin' if this gizmo is still up & flying?
>
>
>
>
> Tom Shannon
> Magna, Utah
>
> _________________________________
> SISNA...more service, less money.
> http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Jul 23 10:28:48 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:28:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] test
In-Reply-To: <200707231019.AA2193948870@mail.sisna.com>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16503@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Get the no-room-no-nothing-to-run bluea, oh mommy . . . . .

Working on acquiring the tow truck (with air-conditioned camper) from
hell.

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Tom Shannon
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 10:19 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] test

I know everyone is busy wrenching for SW. No posts in a few days?Gotta
have my fix!just wonderin' if this gizmo is still up & flying?




Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

_________________________________
SISNA...more service, less money.
http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Jul 23 10:30:23 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:30:23 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] test
In-Reply-To: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16503@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16504@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

blueZ, not bluea, oh mommy I can't type bluez.

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Adin, David
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 10:29 AM
To: saltfevr at mail.sisna.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] test

Get the no-room-no-nothing-to-run bluea, oh mommy . . . . .

Working on acquiring the tow truck (with air-conditioned camper) from
hell.

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Tom Shannon
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 10:19 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] test

I know everyone is busy wrenching for SW. No posts in a few days?Gotta
have my fix!just wonderin' if this gizmo is still up & flying?




Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

_________________________________
SISNA...more service, less money.
http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfevr at mail.sisna.com  Mon Jul 23 14:02:10 2007
From: saltfevr at mail.sisna.com (Tom Shannon)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:02:10 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] test
Message-ID: <200707231402.AA126287970@mail.sisna.com>

Thanks for the replies guys!! All is now right in the LSR Universe. Well maybe not quite. A new 500 room Wendover Hotel in the nest 2 weeks would be nice. Hey, save me a Brat or Pastie for Salt Talks!



Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah



---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Jon Wennerberg <jon at infodestruction.com>
Date:  Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:21:54 -0400

>
>On Jul 23, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Tom Shannon wrote:
>
>I know everyone is busy wrenching for SW. No posts in a few days? 
>Gotta have my fix!just wonderin' if this gizmo is still up & flying?
>
>
>
>
>Tom Shannon
>Magna, Utah
>
>
>
>
>They're not wrenching, they're out exercising to work up an appeitite  
>for Salt Talks.
>
>                 Jon Wennerberg
>Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>              Marquette, Michigan
>              (that's 'way up north)
>
>PS  Yeah, it's working all the way to Marquette, at least.
>
>
 
 
_________________________________
SISNA...more service, less money.
http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/ 

From Jimwprice at aol.com  Mon Jul 23 15:55:37 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:55:37 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] test
Message-ID: <c29.1a6818de.33d67dd9@aol.com>

For the first time ever I am ready to leave two and half weeks  early.   I am 
not superstitious so I am sure I won't cause a meet  ending rainstorm or some 
other no fun event.  I am keeping my fingers  crossed just in case.   
Bob Brissette stopped by the yard here in Las Vegas on his way from LA to  
Kanab for a rest stop.  He is taking a C motor for his lakester that his  son 
Rob is working on in Utah.  He should be ready to go by  Speedweek..  



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 23 21:47:49 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:47:49 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] test:   ' can you hear me now? '
In-Reply-To: <200707231402.AA126287970@mail.sisna.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F33276FAA0E09B10D71AB1DD9F00@phx.gbl>

      just don't ever forget how lucky you dawgs are....


         " totally bummed, "

   cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one

  -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,
                          Cold Beer, Fast Cars, an' Warm Willin' Wimin'

  Speedway Bikes, Harley D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
  Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,
  Aerial Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,

    -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they are

  ------------------------------------- oooo 
--------------------------------------




From: "Tom Shannon" <saltfevr at mail.sisna.com>
Reply-To: saltfevr at mail.sisna.com
To: <saltfevr at mail.sisna.com>, Jon Wennerberg <jon at infodestruction.com>
CC: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] test
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:02:10 -0600

Thanks for the replies guys!! All is now right in the LSR Universe. Well 
maybe not quite. A new 500 room Wendover Hotel in the nest 2 weeks would be 
nice. Hey, save me a Brat or Pastie for Salt Talks!



Tom Shannon
Magna, Utah

_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 24 07:58:23 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 06:58:23 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Silence is Golden
Message-ID: <19047028.1185285503513.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Are you ready? Is your trailer serviced? How about your truck?. 

One week and 1 day after a sucessful El Mirage "shaked down" cruise and new record, I have completed all the discrepencies found by the Chief Inspector, Alan Fogliadini, and ready to put the roadster in the trailer for Bonneville. Yes, even a pretty good inspector can miss a few things. I was a pleasure to have Fogy do it. 

I would rather not run July for a test but this year it happened that way. All filters looked good oil, both gasolines, and the the fuel tank has been emptied for ERC. 

The driver will be arriving Sunday, yep you geuessed it no room till then, so I can have fun with Dan and Fogy for a few days. I hope my competition doesn't push the record up too far. Looking forward into drilling a lot of holes in the salt.

I hope you all get ready and we have a good safe meet.........JD

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Jul 24 08:05:13 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:05:13 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Silence is Golden
References: <19047028.1185285503513.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00c501c7cdfb$a85051f0$6401a8c0@Glens>

JD, I will arrive on Monday for timing set up and to give my approval to the 
White Goose Bar and social club.
At least the food places wont be crowded for a few day.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:58 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Silence is Golden


> Are you ready? Is your trailer serviced? How about your truck?.
>
> One week and 1 day after a sucessful El Mirage "shaked down" cruise and 
> new record, I have completed all the discrepencies found by the Chief 
> Inspector, Alan Fogliadini, and ready to put the roadster in the trailer 
> for Bonneville. Yes, even a pretty good inspector can miss a few things. I 
> was a pleasure to have Fogy do it.
>
> I would rather not run July for a test but this year it happened that way. 
> All filters looked good oil, both gasolines, and the the fuel tank has 
> been emptied for ERC.
>
> The driver will be arriving Sunday, yep you geuessed it no room till then, 
> so I can have fun with Dan and Fogy for a few days. I hope my competition 
> doesn't push the record up too far. Looking forward into drilling a lot of 
> holes in the salt.
>
> I hope you all get ready and we have a good safe meet.........JD
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Jul 24 10:05:21 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:05:21 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel Fuel Additives
Message-ID: <W9257827165134731185293121@webmail8>

Glad to hear you got a handle on it, and by way, congrats on last meet's
record.

Soooooooo........ Here's a question pertaining to diesel tow vehicles. Diesel
internet groups rave about fuel additives such as Diesel Kleen and Stanadyne.
I have believed in additives, but this is my first diesel (Duramax) and as I
understand it, there is merit in these additives, especially since the
long-term effects of low-sulphur fuel are unknown as yet. Anybody care to
comment on whether this is snake-oil or a good thing?
Ed


>-----Original Message-----
>From: James Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 06:58 AM
>To: land-speed at autox.team.net
>Subject: [Land-speed] Silence is Golden
>
>Are you ready? Is your trailer serviced? How about your truck?.
>
>One week and 1 day after a sucessful El Mirage "shaked down" cruiseand new
record, I have completed all the discrepencies found by theChief Inspector,
Alan Fogliadini, and ready to put the roadster in thetrailer for Bonneville.
Yes, even a pretty good inspector can miss afew things. I was a pleasure to
have Fogy do it.
>
>I would rather not run July for a test but this year it happenedthat way. All
filters looked good oil, both gasolines, and the the fueltank has been emptied
for ERC.
>
>The driver will be arriving Sunday, yep you geuessed it no roomtill then, so
I can have fun with Dan and Fogy for a few days. I hopemy competition doesn't
push the record up too far. Looking forward intodrilling a lot of holes in the
salt.
>
>I hope you all get ready and we have a good safe meet.........JD
>_______________________________________________
>ed at vetteracing.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Tue Jul 24 10:15:03 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:15:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel additives
Message-ID: <4FF079E7E7FB4F97A1169ADC2BDD7652@LMS>

Ed,  My old 6.2T has a completely different system than yours---but I have run
the Stanadyne additives in all of my diesels for the last 25 years----maybe I
have been lucky but with all of the pump problems that have happened over the
years---I have yet to have any.  KOW  knock on wood!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From kturk at ala.net  Tue Jul 24 10:18:36 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:18:36 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel additives
References: <4FF079E7E7FB4F97A1169ADC2BDD7652@LMS>
Message-ID: <008b01c7ce0e$4aab41f0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Run my 7.3 powerstrokes on pump fuel and nothing else for years now... and 
put over 400k on them with no issue I didn't cause...

K 

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Jul 24 10:28:16 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:28:16 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel additives
Message-ID: <W94297140936681185294496@webmail32>

One thing I forgot to mention....... I have a 50 gal. aux. tankin the bed. I
don't drive this truck everyday, and in theoff-season, sometime it sits for
quite awhile. I know gasgoes bad real fast without Stabil, or something like
it, how about diesel?
Ed



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Keith Turk [mailto:kturk at ala.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 09:18 AM
>To: 'Sparky', 'AA List'
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Diesel additives
>
>Run my 7.3 powerstrokes on pump fuel and nothing else for years now... and
>put over 400k on them with no issue I didn't cause...
>
>K
>_______________________________________________
>ed at vetteracing.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Jul 24 10:31:26 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:31:26 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel Fuel Additives
Message-ID: <W9461317686124571185294686@webmail17>

Should read NEVER believed in additives........... Need an additive to help my typing.
Ed

>
>Soooooooo........ Here's a question pertaining to diesel tow vehicles. Diesel
>internet groups rave about fuel additives such as Diesel Kleen and Stanadyne.
>I have believed in additives, but this is my first diesel (Duramax) and as I
>understand it, there is merit in these additives, especially since the
>long-term effects of low-sulphur fuel are unknown as yet. Anybody care to
>comment on whether this is snake-oil or a good thing?
>Ed
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: James Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net]
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 06:58 AM
>>To: land-speed at autox.team.net
>>Subject: [Land-speed] Silence is Golden
>>
>>Are you ready? Is your trailer serviced? How about your truck?.
>>
>>One week and 1 day after a sucessful El Mirage "shaked down" cruiseand new
>record, I have completed all the discrepencies found by theChief Inspector,
>Alan Fogliadini, and ready to put the roadster in thetrailer for Bonneville.
>Yes, even a pretty good inspector can miss afew things. I was a pleasure to
>have Fogy do it.
>>
>>I would rather not run July for a test but this year it happenedthat way. All
>filters looked good oil, both gasolines, and the the fueltank has been emptied
>for ERC.
>>
>>The driver will be arriving Sunday, yep you geuessed it no roomtill then, so
>I can have fun with Dan and Fogy for a few days. I hopemy competition doesn't
>push the record up too far. Looking forward intodrilling a lot of holes in the
>salt.
>>
>>I hope you all get ready and we have a good safe meet.........JD

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Jul 24 10:33:51 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:33:51 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel Fuel Additives
References: <W9257827165134731185293121@webmail8>
Message-ID: <00d801c7ce10$6bd63ef0$6401a8c0@Glens>

I have never run any additives in either of my diesels. I make sure I don't 
buy at gippo stations and use name brands.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ed at vetteracing.com>
To: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:05 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel Fuel Additives


> Glad to hear you got a handle on it, and by way, congrats on last meet's
> record.
>
> Soooooooo........ Here's a question pertaining to diesel tow vehicles. 
> Diesel
> internet groups rave about fuel additives such as Diesel Kleen and 
> Stanadyne.
> I have believed in additives, but this is my first diesel (Duramax) and as 
> I
> understand it, there is merit in these additives, especially since the
> long-term effects of low-sulphur fuel are unknown as yet. Anybody care to
> comment on whether this is snake-oil or a good thing?
> Ed
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: James Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net]
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 06:58 AM
>>To: land-speed at autox.team.net
>>Subject: [Land-speed] Silence is Golden
>>
>>Are you ready? Is your trailer serviced? How about your truck?.
>>
>>One week and 1 day after a sucessful El Mirage "shaked down" cruiseand new
> record, I have completed all the discrepencies found by theChief 
> Inspector,
> Alan Fogliadini, and ready to put the roadster in thetrailer for 
> Bonneville.
> Yes, even a pretty good inspector can miss afew things. I was a pleasure 
> to
> have Fogy do it.
>>
>>I would rather not run July for a test but this year it happenedthat way. 
>>All
> filters looked good oil, both gasolines, and the the fueltank has been 
> emptied
> for ERC.
>>
>>The driver will be arriving Sunday, yep you geuessed it no roomtill then, 
>>so
> I can have fun with Dan and Fogy for a few days. I hopemy competition 
> doesn't
> push the record up too far. Looking forward intodrilling a lot of holes in 
> the
> salt.
>>
>>I hope you all get ready and we have a good safe meet.........JD
>>_______________________________________________
>>ed at vetteracing.com
>>
>>Land-speed mailing list
>>
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 24 11:11:50 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:11:50 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel Fuel Additives
Message-ID: <5643424.1185297110736.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>Subject: Diesel Fuel Additives
>
>Glad to hear you got a handle on it, and by way, congrats on last meet's record.
>
>Soooooooo........ Here's a question pertaining to diesel tow vehicles. Diesel internet groups rave about fuel additives such as Diesel Kleen and Stanadyne. I have believed in additives, but this is my first diesel (Duramax) and as I understand it, there is merit in these additives, especially since the long-term effects of low-sulphur fuel are unknown as yet. Anybody care to comment on whether this is snake-oil or a good thing?
>Ed

Ed this will be a never ending subject. You didn't say what you bought but I will tell you what I do. I have a 04 Ford 6.0. Next to the 03 what is said to be the worst one....How much trouble have I had...None. One leaking lower rad hose and a minor A/C problem at 3 years.

What do I do? Change oil before 4000 miles. The oil in these new ones are the most important item because of the lubricating they do to the injectors. I put Stanadyne in every tank of fuel from day one...Why? The lubricity has been removed from the fuel by law and emmisions. 

I have added a coolant filter to help save the water pump.  It uses a Baldwin filter which is an excellant brand. Change the fuel filters at 15K. Do it, you won't regret it. After 24K miles I added an oil additive from Lubrication Specialites; you can look them up as to why the product was made for the Ford Motor Company and International. If I every thought I had a problem coming on it's now gone. The product is only to be used to clear things up. I won't use it continuously.

The next is a personal opinion; if you bought a Ford (especially not a new one) If your thinking of hopping it up it will break something or at least they seem too. I will never, I repeat, never chip mine. International built these as 265 HP and Ford made them 325's; so to me they are already on the ragged edge. Add a 100 HP and something will go wrong. Put the $$$ in your race car.

I look at it this way as you are peacefully climbing into Ely at 55/60 mph with out a care in the world just remember yoour gas engine doing at 30/35 in low gear.

Good Luck, There are problems with every brand and it seem like the older 7.3 Fords and the 5.9 90's Dodges are trouble free but what do I know I just tow with it.

From jon at infodestruction.com  Tue Jul 24 11:33:59 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:33:59 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel Fuel Additives
In-Reply-To: <W9257827165134731185293121@webmail8>
References: <W9257827165134731185293121@webmail8>
Message-ID: <EEB98C6B-C6FA-46CB-A028-95A23E148F79@infodestruction.com>

On Jul 24, 2007, at 12:05 PM, ed at vetteracing.com wrote:

Glad to hear you got a handle on it, and by way, congrats on last meet's
record.

Soooooooo........ Here's a question pertaining to diesel tow  
vehicles. Diesel
internet groups rave about fuel additives such as Diesel Kleen and  
Stanadyne.
I have believed in additives, but this is my first diesel (Duramax)  
and as I
understand it, there is merit in these additives, especially since the
long-term effects of low-sulphur fuel are unknown as yet. Anybody  
care to
comment on whether this is snake-oil or a good thing?
Ed




I haven't run any additives in my Duramax-by-Isuzu 6.6L -- and at  
135,000 miles it's apparently doing fine.  No issues of any kind - so  
far.  I do fill at the off-road pump now and then -- that's high- 
sulfur, and also not quite within the rules (no road taxes) -- so my  
engine gets some sulfur.

Our road trucks are both Caterpillar 3126 engines -- and we don't put  
additives in those tanks except for the occasional anti-gel during  
the coldest weather.  I don't use it at all in my pickup -- but I  
keep the p/u in the garage at home, so the temps don't get much below  
zero.

Yes, there's a chance that the diesel, when stored for a long time --  
will develop some algae in the tanks, so consider putting something  
in there to retard the growth.  I know there's something -- I don't  
know the name of it.

I doubt that gelling is a problem for those of you in the warm  
climates, but to help reduce it up here I wrap a layer of fiberglas  
insulation around the fuel filter during the winter, to keep that  
device from getting too cold.   We haven't had an ice up for a couple  
of years.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From jdincau at qnet.com  Tue Jul 24 12:45:47 2007
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:45:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] M T 30 inch tires
Message-ID: <000301c7ce22$d9f2dad0$0500000a@Den>

Has anyone out there received their tires yet?
Jim in  Palmdale 

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Tue Jul 24 15:43:37 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:43:37 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] M T 30 inch tires
References: <000301c7ce22$d9f2dad0$0500000a@Den>
Message-ID: <46A67288.00000A.01592@TOM>

I just received a call from Mickey Thompson Tires while I was writing this.
They said they would be shipped by Thursday. I am still waiting on wheels
from "Taylor Made Wheels" , however. It is not critical for me, but I would
feel better them for Speedweek.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: Jim Dincau
Date: 7/24/2007 12:06:06 PM
To: land Speed List
Subject: [Land-speed] M T 30 inch tires

Has anyone out there received their tires yet?
Jim in  Palmdale
_______________________________________________
saltracer at awwwsome.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed


.

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From Askotto at aol.com  Tue Jul 24 17:42:28 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:42:28 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] M T 30 inch tires
Message-ID: <cc9.15a70701.33d7e864@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/24/2007 3:45:30 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
saltracer at awwwsome.com writes:

I am  still waiting on wheels
from "Taylor Made Wheels" , however. It is not  critical for me, but I would
feel better them for Speedweek.

Tom,  Redding CA - #216 D/FCC




Hi Tom
 
Good luck with Taylor Made. Seems everyone has to hammer them to get  
anything done. I begged them for 3 months and still had to NEXT DAY AIR 4 wheels  and 
tires, $789.00, to get them the day I left for Bonneville!
 
Your experience may vary... LOL
 
Good luck. I wish I was going!
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Tue Jul 24 17:44:39 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:44:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel Fuel Additives
In-Reply-To: <W9257827165134731185293121@webmail8>
References: <W9257827165134731185293121@webmail8>
Message-ID: <46A68EE7.4050503@wildblue.net>

Ed, Re: "since the long-term effects of low-sulfur fuel are unknown"

Not true. The European Common Union legislated it over 10 years ago.
American engineers have known what is required, there have been SAE papers
on the subject back in the '90's.
What their management let's them do is another thing, unfortunitly.

Fact: American diesel powered trucks have been operation in Europe for
over 10 years without additives. (our military and specialized equipment).
There are have been no problems. Don't add anything to diesel fuel, BUT ----
water and dirt must be removed. Good, small water separator/filters are
available at marine supply places.

Two huge benefits, in my opinion, the crankcase is no longer a sulphuric 
acid
factory and you can build engines like the GM Opal 1.9 4 TDI that puts out
214 HP and gives over 50MPG on the highway at 75 MPH.
Oil changes at 6,000 to 10,000 miles are nice.

I suggest you study the owners manual.
For racing, it's not what you put in the oil, it's what you take out 
that's important -- AIR.
(Smokey Y.)

Bryan



ed at vetteracing.com wrote:
> Glad to hear you got a handle on it, and by way, congrats on last meet's
> record.
>
> Soooooooo........ Here's a question pertaining to diesel tow vehicles. Diesel
> internet groups rave about fuel additives such as Diesel Kleen and Stanadyne.
> I have believed in additives, but this is my first diesel (Duramax) and as I
> understand it, there is merit in these additives, especially since the
> long-term effects of low-sulphur fuel are unknown as yet. Anybody care to
> comment on whether this is snake-oil or a good thing?
> Ed
>
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 06:58 AM
>> To: land-speed at autox.team.net
>> Subject: [Land-speed] Silence is Golden
>>
>> Are you ready? Is your trailer serviced? How about your truck?.
>>
>> One week and 1 day after a sucessful El Mirage "shaked down" cruiseand new
>>     
> record, I have completed all the discrepencies found by theChief Inspector,
> Alan Fogliadini, and ready to put the roadster in thetrailer for Bonneville.
> Yes, even a pretty good inspector can miss afew things. I was a pleasure to
> have Fogy do it.
>   
>> I would rather not run July for a test but this year it happenedthat way. All
>>     
> filters looked good oil, both gasolines, and the the fueltank has been emptied
> for ERC.
>   
>> The driver will be arriving Sunday, yep you geuessed it no roomtill then, so
>>     
> I can have fun with Dan and Fogy for a few days. I hopemy competition doesn't
> push the record up too far. Looking forward intodrilling a lot of holes in the
> salt.
>   
>> I hope you all get ready and we have a good safe meet.........JD
>> _______________________________________________
>> ed at vetteracing.com
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> b.a.savage at wildblue.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Tue Jul 24 17:49:48 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:49:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel Fuel Additives
In-Reply-To: <W9257827165134731185293121@webmail8>
References: <W9257827165134731185293121@webmail8>
Message-ID: <46A6901C.20001@wildblue.net>

Ed, Re: "since the long-term effects of low-sulfur fuel are unknown"

Not true. The European Common Union legislated it over 10 years ago.
American engineers have known what is required, there have been SAE papers
on the subject back in the '90's.
What their management let's them do is another thing, unfortunitly.

Fact: American diesel powered trucks have been operation in Europe for
over 10 years without additives. (our military and specialized equipment).
There are have been no problems. Don't add anything to diesel fuel, BUT ----
water and dirt must be removed. Good, small water separator/filters are
available at marine supply places.

Two huge benefits, in my opinion, the crankcase is no longer a sulphuric
acid
factory and you can build engines like the GM Opal 1.9 4 TDI that puts out
214 HP and gives over 50MPG on the highway at 75 MPH.
Oil changes at 6,000 to 10,000 miles are nice.

I suggest you study the owners manual.
For racing, it's not what you put in the oil, it's what you take out
that's important -- AIR.
(Smokey Y.)

Bryan



ed at vetteracing.com wrote:
> Glad to hear you got a handle on it, and by way, congrats on last meet's
> record.
>
> Soooooooo........ Here's a question pertaining to diesel tow vehicles. Diesel
> internet groups rave about fuel additives such as Diesel Kleen and Stanadyne.
> I have believed in additives, but this is my first diesel (Duramax) and as I
> understand it, there is merit in these additives, especially since the
> long-term effects of low-sulphur fuel are unknown as yet. Anybody care to
> comment on whether this is snake-oil or a good thing?
> Ed

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Jul 24 20:41:25 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:41:25 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Diesel Fuel Additives
Message-ID: <W3117627233230411185331285@webmail4>

Thanks for the information Brian.
Ed

>Ed, Re: "since the long-term effects of low-sulfur fuel are unknown"
>
>Not true. The European Common Union legislated it over 10 years ago.
>American engineers have known what is required, there have been SAE papers
>on the subject back in the '90's.
>What their management let's them do is another thing, unfortunitly.
>
>Fact: American diesel powered trucks have been operation in Europe for
>over 10 years without additives. (our military and specialized equipment).
>There are have been no problems. Don't add anything to diesel fuel, BUT ----
>water and dirt must be removed. Good, small water separator/filters are
>available at marine supply places.
>
>Two huge benefits, in my opinion, the crankcase is no longer a sulphuric 
>acid
>factory and you can build engines like the GM Opal 1.9 4 TDI that puts out
>214 HP and gives over 50MPG on the highway at 75 MPH.
>Oil changes at 6,000 to 10,000 miles are nice.
>
>I suggest you study the owners manual.
>For racing, it's not what you put in the oil, it's what you take out 
>that's important -- AIR.
>(Smokey Y.)
>
>Bryan
>
>
>
>ed at vetteracing.com wrote:
>> Glad to hear you got a handle on it, and by way, congrats on last meet's
>> record.
>>
>> Soooooooo........ Here's a question pertaining to diesel tow vehicles. Diesel
>> internet groups rave about fuel additives such as Diesel Kleen and Stanadyne.
>> I have believed in additives, but this is my first diesel (Duramax) and as I
>> understand it, there is merit in these additives, especially since the
>> long-term effects of low-sulphur fuel are unknown as yet. Anybody care to
>> comment on whether this is snake-oil or a good thing?
>> Ed

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 25 09:07:46 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:07:46 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NOT much LSR -just a hot rod for sale   -to friends
Message-ID: <BAY135-F31076D873A62D5D587C88DD9F10@phx.gbl>

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Hi all;

           DRIVING MISS DAISY,?                Huh?       no,  SELLING BW

Hi all,  Please forgive a shameless plug,  but I want to let all my LSR 
friends know that Boogie Woogie is REALLY for sale. I'd much rather see her 
go to m' friends that to 'just anybody'.  Unfortunately what with 
'economics' , age discrimination and the job market being what they are, 
she's 'for sale'  -for real.

The car is fully road-worthy and ready, in fact -she's got 33,000 'smiles' 
on her now -with 2 trips back & forth to Bonneville from NYS...  Perhaps 
lesser known to most folks, is that she's also "3/4 of the way there"  to 
being a race car.  She's got an integral 1 3/4" x 1/4" wall D.O.M. Rollbar, 
and a fully removable bolt-in  chrome-moly roll cage with a swing-out 
sidebar as well. There's a 9" ford rear with 3:00-1 gears, Strange 
Engineering 31 spline race axles,  a nice set of fitted race headers,  all 
the mounts for 5 way harnesses,  the floor and doors even have 'zippers'   
-meaning they are designed for very easy removal in minutes for servicing 
the car.  The inside aluminum trunk panel and center floor are in fact held 
in with Dzus fasteners.

  Construction quality is top shelf throughout; inside and out whether it's 
seen or not. This car was built as a labor of love.  In fact MOST of the car 
was -hand fabricated-  by myself... the engine is a 1966 chev 327 poked to 
332"  and is nice n' warm  -as street engines go.  18-20 mpg can be expected 
with this fun car.   I hate to part with'er but that's the way things go.

Many fotos of the car can be seen at the following:

http://photobucket.com/albums/f192/boogiewoogie12/?action=view&current=Ft.jpg

see the listing:    
http://www.hotrodhotline.com/classifieds/classifieds.php?a=5&b=208&c=

see another at:    http://www.hotrodsforsale.com/ford/ford/index_ford.htm

                            (-then click on the '1930's' link on left...)



of course you can contact me for pages of further info .

OH: a substantial 'commission' WILL be paid to the successful 'salesman' (or 
saleswoman ;-)  who leads me to a successful sale.  NO foolin'

Thanks for your indulgence         Cheers, and best regards  -Doug

_________________________________________________________________
Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one 
place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Jul 25 10:11:52 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:11:52 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] fire suit
Message-ID: <005401c7ced6$83fb34b0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Rick Vesco is looking for a fire suit to borrow for his son to drive in at
speed week SFI3.2/A20 for a streamliner. He is 6' 6" 230 lbs. If you know of
anyone willing please PM me with info.
Thanks
Glen

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 25 21:53:59 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:53:59 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] -just a hot rod for sale -to friends
Message-ID: <BAY135-F33ED165D5662F6C948C5A4D9F20@phx.gbl>

    I donno          -------- they usta!

   try this

~  go to:  http://www.hotrodsforsale.com/ford/ford/ford_index.htm

~  then click 'classic',  '1930'  at left side,

~  then click "pg 4" (in upper right frame)  scroll down to photo of the 
red/white BW


     it worked for me...


     thanks for asking    cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


From: RYNDBOYS at aol.com
To: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NOT much LSR -just a hot rod for sale   -to 
friends
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:59:05 EDT


In a message dated 7/25/07 11:08:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com writes:

http://www.hotrodsforsale.com/ford/ford/index_ford.htm



your sites don"t work

_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of B. W. Statistics For Sale --2 fotos.doc]

From mactem at mebtel.net  Thu Jul 26 04:23:04 2007
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:23:04 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Land-speed] -just a hot rod for sale -to friends
Message-ID: <009f01c7cf6e$f3f7bd40$0400a8c0@brightstar>

Great pictures Doug.  Must have been great to run that on the dirt
track.  Very nice ride!  If I weren't already outspending my income I'd
think about buying it. Looks like a magnet for those "warm willin women"
you're always talking about.
David

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Jul 23 11:11:58 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:11:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bio-fuel Powered Car Breaks World Speed Record
Message-ID: <000a01c7d087$e4d33dc0$3d01000a@Dale>

http://www.prnewswire.com:80/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/07-
16-2007/0004626188&EDATE=

go green
dale
nice in zims hot springs, id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Jul 23 11:14:38 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:14:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] =?iso-8859-1?q?Setting_a_Land_Speed_Record_on_a_modi?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?fied_500_-_faster_than_a_Hayabusa_=96_motorcyclistonline?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?=2Ecom_Checkers_-_U=2ES=2E_Racing_Forum?=
Message-ID: <000b01c7d087$e547f890$3d01000a@Dale>

http://forums.motorcyclistonline.com:80/70/6335134/checkers-us-racing/setting
-a-land-speed-record-on-a-modified-500-fast/

go Honda
dale
zims , id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Jul 23 11:09:13 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:09:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Dirt Bike Magazine
Message-ID: <001c01c7d087$e596b4d0$3d01000a@Dale>

http://www.dirtbikemagazine.com:80/detail.asp?id=833

dale
59 and going to 80 in Zims hot springs ,id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Jul 23 11:29:48 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:29:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Pneumatic Rolling-Sphere Carrier Delusion: Stanley
 Rocket - July 21, 2007
Message-ID: <000c01c7d087$e5b81f80$3d01000a@Dale>

http://cablecarguy.blogspot.com:80/2007/07/stanley-rocket-july-21-2007.html

go steam
dale
hot springs, id are good

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Jul 23 11:11:58 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:11:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bio-fuel Powered Car Breaks World Speed Record
Message-ID: <001d01c7d087$e60b96b0$3d01000a@Dale>

http://www.prnewswire.com:80/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/07-
16-2007/0004626188&EDATE=

go green
dale
nice in zims hot springs, id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Jul 23 11:14:38 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:14:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] =?iso-8859-1?q?Setting_a_Land_Speed_Record_on_a_modi?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?fied_500_-_faster_than_a_Hayabusa_=96_motorcyclistonline?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?=2Ecom_Checkers_-_U=2ES=2E_Racing_Forum?=
Message-ID: <001e01c7d087$e6bbfaf0$3d01000a@Dale>

http://forums.motorcyclistonline.com:80/70/6335134/checkers-us-racing/setting
-a-land-speed-record-on-a-modified-500-fast/

go Honda
dale
zims , id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Jul 23 11:29:48 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:29:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Pneumatic Rolling-Sphere Carrier Delusion: Stanley
 Rocket - July 21, 2007
Message-ID: <001f01c7d087$e72e6bd0$3d01000a@Dale>

http://cablecarguy.blogspot.com:80/2007/07/stanley-rocket-july-21-2007.html

go steam
dale
hot springs, id are good

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Jul 23 11:09:13 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:09:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Dirt Bike Magazine
Message-ID: <000901c7d087$e45e5be0$3d01000a@Dale>

http://www.dirtbikemagazine.com:80/detail.asp?id=833

dale
59 and going to 80 in Zims hot springs ,id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Jul 26 10:41:21 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:41:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Local man designs championship racing bikes
Message-ID: <001501c7d088$34b930b0$3d01000a@Dale>

http://www.hidesertstar.com:80/articles/2007/07/25/features/feature1.txt

another motorcycle going for records
dale
cool 59 in New Meadows,id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Jul 26 10:41:21 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:41:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Local man designs championship racing bikes
Message-ID: <002a01c7d088$34bb7aa0$3d01000a@Dale>

http://www.hidesertstar.com:80/articles/2007/07/25/features/feature1.txt

another motorcycle going for records
dale
cool 59 in New Meadows,id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Fri Jul 27 13:49:52 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:49:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The High Society of Automobiles | Newport | Rhode
 Island news | projo.com | The Providence Journal
Message-ID: <001601c7d088$352deb80$3d01000a@Dale>

http://www.projo.com/ri/newport/content/wk-CONCOURS_07-26-07_F46F0SG.2020135.
html

Sounds like Newport is going to have a great show of race cars
dale
85 in merdian,id and going to 101

From jdincau at qnet.com  Fri Jul 27 14:33:56 2007
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:33:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] MT tires
Message-ID: <001d01c7d08d$74920040$0500000a@Den>

     UPS delivered mine today.
Jim in Palmdale 

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sat Jul 28 00:54:07 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:54:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR  --  Computer problem
Message-ID: <46AAE80F.3070400@wildblue.net>

I  noticed that something was wrong with the mouse hooked up
to my laptop this morning.
A few minuets ago I got around to looking at the mouse. The problem
was the mouse wheel didn't move smoothly. After about a turn it
got sticky and hard to turn. I took it apart and saw that the rubber
tire was swollen and pulled away from the plastic wheel.
Further examination with my eye loop showed two groups of very
small puncture wounds in the rubber wheel. In my opinion, these
holes would be a perfect match for Suzie's teeth.
Suzie is a seven pound cat.

The damn cat got my mouse.

Bryan

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sat Jul 28 05:15:28 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 04:15:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] MT tires
Message-ID: <33ECC405FFB14A5E865A33FF1432B6EC@LMS>

at 1:05 PDST---my neraly 5 year wait was over---the door bell rang----went to
the door to see the UPS truck drive off----but before my wondering eys were my
MT tires big and small.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Jul 28 07:00:38 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 06:00:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Corvettes In Drag Racing - The Midyear Era - Vette
	Magazine
Message-ID: <001501c7d119$138661b0$3d01000a@Dale>

http://www.vetteweb.com:80/features/vemp_0701_drag_racing_c2_corvettes/

old time land speed racer
dale
dark and going to 98 in meridan,id

From dmirror3 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 28 13:25:24 2007
From: dmirror3 at yahoo.com (Dale Krumheuer)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:25:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR  --  Computer problem
In-Reply-To: <46AAE80F.3070400@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <511653.56320.qm@web58002.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Had a similar situation, the mouse looked fine but the arrow didnt move. Cleaned the little rubber ball and the contacts. Nothing. Checked the connnection to the computer, yep, still plugged in. Then checked the cord. Dozens of little teeth marks. Teeth marks too small to be from the Great Dane. Logic dictates Cat. Cat kills mouse. Apparent evolution of Cat, 21st century instinct I suppose. 

Bryan Savage <b.a.savage at wildblue.net> wrote: I  noticed that something was wrong with the mouse hooked up
to my laptop this morning.
A few minuets ago I got around to looking at the mouse. The problem
was the mouse wheel didn't move smoothly. After about a turn it
got sticky and hard to turn. I took it apart and saw that the rubber
tire was swollen and pulled away from the plastic wheel.
Further examination with my eye loop showed two groups of very
small puncture wounds in the rubber wheel. In my opinion, these
holes would be a perfect match for Suzie's teeth.
Suzie is a seven pound cat.

The damn cat got my mouse.

Bryan
_______________________________________________
dmirror3 at yahoo.com



  
    Therere no rules of the roadnot even understandings. Craziest is king and the contestants are bold.



       
---------------------------------
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. 

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 28 13:45:57 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:45:57 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR  --  Computer problem
References: <511653.56320.qm@web58002.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000501c7d14f$f192cda0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Get a laser mouse--cheap (Microsoft makes them).  No wheel, contacts, or 
rubber tire (MT or otherwise).

Our cats don't like lasers.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dale Krumheuer" <dmirror3 at yahoo.com>

> Had a similar situation, the mouse looked fine but the arrow didnt move. 
> Cleaned the little rubber ball and the contacts. Nothing. Checked the 
> connnection to the computer, yep, still plugged in. Then checked the cord. 
> Dozens of little teeth marks. Teeth marks too small to be from the Great 
> Dane. Logic dictates Cat. Cat kills mouse. Apparent evolution of Cat, 21st 
> century instinct I suppose.
>
> Bryan Savage <b.a.savage at wildblue.net> wrote: I  noticed that something 
> was wrong with the mouse hooked up
> to my laptop this morning.
> A few minuets ago I got around to looking at the mouse. The problem
> was the mouse wheel didn't move smoothly. After about a turn it
> got sticky and hard to turn. I took it apart and saw that the rubber
> tire was swollen and pulled away from the plastic wheel.
> Further examination with my eye loop showed two groups of very
> small puncture wounds in the rubber wheel. In my opinion, these
> holes would be a perfect match for Suzie's teeth.
> Suzie is a seven pound cat.
>
> The damn cat got my mouse.
>
> Bryan

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 28 21:48:45 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:48:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] MT tires
In-Reply-To: <33ECC405FFB14A5E865A33FF1432B6EC@LMS>
Message-ID: <516423.31829.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thank you Mike Cook,
   
  DW

Sparky <sparky.2211 at cox.net> wrote:
  at 1:05 PDST---my neraly 5 year wait was over---the door bell rang----went to
the door to see the UPS truck drive off----but before my wondering eys were my
MT tires big and small.
Sparky
AA/_ L 2211
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
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From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Jul 29 05:05:04 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 04:05:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] MT tires
In-Reply-To: <516423.31829.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <516423.31829.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <51D6E1AD26454167BE4B767B6D3CF905@LMS>

Dan,  You are so right---Thanks to MT, Mike Cook and anyone else who played a
ROLE. however large or small.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: dan warner
  To: Sparky ; AA List
  Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 8:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] MT tires


  Thank you Mike Cook,

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Jul 29 09:09:37 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 08:09:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] World's fastest 'weather girl' heads for Bonneville -
 27 Jul 2007 - Motoring News - New Zealand Herald
Message-ID: <000501c7d1f2$7b3db180$3d01000a@Dale>

http://www.nzherald.co.nz:80/section/9/story.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10454251

our own weather girl from NZ going for bike 250 record ?
dale
ssuunnyy and going to 95 in meridian, id

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Jul 29 09:16:41 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 08:16:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] International Motorcycle Speed Trials - Hot Bike
	Magazine
Message-ID: <001301c7d1f3$79d615c0$3d01000a@Dale>

http://www.hotbikeweb.com/features/0705_hbkp_bonneville_salt_flats/

more women on bikes for BUB meet
dale
sssuuunnyy and going to 95 in meridian,id

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Jul 29 08:20:44 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 08:20:44 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] World's fastest 'weather girl' heads for
 Bonneville - 27 Jul 2007 - Motoring News - New Zealand Herald
In-Reply-To: <000501c7d1f2$7b3db180$3d01000a@Dale>
References: <000501c7d1f2$7b3db180$3d01000a@Dale>
Message-ID: <20070729082044.1v93npaxz4so04gg@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Not quite the "weather girl" i fantasized about, but wish you all the  
best anyway!

(Danger: incoming kiwi nut)

hahaha.




Quoting Dale H Pulju <d.pulju at pahrump.com>:

> http://www.nzherald.co.nz:80/section/9/story.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10454251
>
> our own weather girl from NZ going for bike 250 record ?
> dale
> ssuunnyy and going to 95 in meridian, id
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From john.szalay at att.net  Sun Jul 29 08:31:12 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:31:12 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR  --  Computer problem
Message-ID: <072920071431.28832.46ACA4B000039A96000070A02160280741970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

I'm really partial to the trackball myself.  hand cramps up handling a mouse.


-------------- Original message from "joseph lance" <jolylance at earthlink.net>: -------------- 

> Get a laser mouse--cheap (Microsoft makes them). No wheel, contacts, or  rubber tire (MT or otherwise). 
> Our cats don't like lasers. 

From john.szalay at att.net  Sun Jul 29 08:37:55 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:37:55 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR  --  Computer problem
Message-ID: <072920071437.2620.46ACA643000237D800000A3C2160280741970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

MEMO:
To:Service Technicians
Re:Replacement of Mouse Balls

If a mouse fails to operate or performs erratically, it may need a ball replacement. Mouse balls are now available as FRU (Field Replacement Units). Because of the delicate nature of this procedure, replacement of mouse balls should only be attempted by properly trained personnel. Before proceeding, determine the type of mouse balls by examining the underside of the mouse. Domestic balls will be larger and harder than foreign balls. Ball removal procedures differ depending upon the manufacturer of the mouse. Foreign balls can be replaced using the pop off method. Domestic balls are replaced by using the twist off method. Mouse balls are not usually static sensitive. However, excessive handling can result in sudden discharge.
Upon completion of ball replacement, the mouse may be used immediately. It is recommended that each technician have a pair of spare balls for maintaining optimum customer satisfaction. Any customer missing his balls should contact the local personnel in charge of removing and replacing these necessary items. Please keep in mind that a customer without properly working balls is an unhappy customer.




 > > Bryan Savage wrote: I noticed that something 
> > was wrong with the mouse hooked up  to my laptop this morning. 
> > A few minuets ago I got around to looking at the mouse. The problem > > was the mouse wheel didn't move smoothly. After about a turn it 
> > got sticky and hard to turn. I took it apart and saw that the rubber 
> > tire was swollen and pulled away from the plastic wheel. 
> > Further examination with my eye loop showed two groups of very 
> > small puncture wounds in the rubber wheel. In my opinion, these 
> > holes would be a perfect match for Suzie's teeth. 
> > Suzie is a seven pound cat. 
> > 
> > The damn cat got my mouse. 
> > 
> > Bryan 

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Sun Jul 29 16:36:23 2007
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:36:23 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] International Motorcycle Speed Trials - Hot Bike
 Magazine
In-Reply-To: <001301c7d1f3$79d615c0$3d01000a@Dale>
References: <001301c7d1f3$79d615c0$3d01000a@Dale>
Message-ID: <D401E3C65129407E91B4AC3686046FDC@ChrisHarrisPC>

Aren't New Zealand women attractive ?
Chris H.............NZed.

  http://www.hotbikeweb.com/features/0705_hbkp_bonneville_salt_flats/

  more women on bikes for BUB meet
  dale

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jul 29 20:17:11 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:17:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt Report?
Message-ID: <46AD4A27.3040703@mayfco.com>

Chatted briefly today with Jon Amo and he mentioned some rain just past 
few days and a chance of some more in the near future... Has anyone got 
a good salt update? Is it wet, dry and hard (I wish),  under water, or 
what? Do I need a barge to get to the course?

Only a few days to go..

mayf

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 29 20:49:22 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 02:49:22 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] International Motorcycle Speed Trials - Hot Bike
 Magazine
In-Reply-To: <D401E3C65129407E91B4AC3686046FDC@ChrisHarrisPC>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F241FC9DA09C9ECB9B12D8DD9EE0@phx.gbl>

   hey,........ wadaya mean ?  'alla NZ birds I ever saw were downright 
luscious !



                               cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Chris Harris <yesford at clear.net.nz>
To: Dale H Pulju <d.pulju at pahrump.com>, land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] International Motorcycle Speed Trials - Hot Bike 
Magazine
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:36:23 +1200

Aren't New Zealand women attractive ?

Chris H.............NZed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

   http://www.hotbikeweb.com/features/0705_hbkp_bonneville_salt_flats/

   more women on bikes for BUB meet    -dale

_________________________________________________________________
Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one 
place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Jul 30 09:33:03 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:33:03 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt Report?
References: <46AD4A27.3040703@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <46AE04AE.000001.02096@TOM>

Mayf,

The word I got on Friday was that the salt is under water. Someone from the
USFRA  was suppose to go and check conditions over the weekend. I should
know more today. It is understandable that many are interested in this so
when I hear more, I will post it.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: drmayf
Date: 7/29/2007 7:17:54 PM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt Report?

Chatted briefly today with Jon Amo and he mentioned some rain just past
few days and a chance of some more in the near future... Has anyone got
a good salt update? Is it wet, dry and hard (I wish),  under water, or
what? Do I need a barge to get to the course?

Only a few days to go..

mayf

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Jul 30 10:23:04 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:23:04 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] gringo [1]
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16541@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

It can be done, though the aero package leaves us wanting.


David in Durango

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=16533

[1] the term "gringo" was derived from a song the 'merkin troups would
sing "greed grow the lilacs . . . "  - here instead of "green grow" we
have "green go" . . .sorry.  merkin is another story.

From dlodom at charter.net  Tue Jul 31 11:25:18 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:25:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires   OEM H Rated
Message-ID: <46AF707E.6060709@charter.net>

A friend is building an E or F Diesel truck. It will only go about 130 
mph.  He asked me about tires. Book says OEM H rated.  OK, I have never 
run street tires at Bonneville or El Mirage so I'm asking anyone out 
there  that runs a small  car or truck what tires do you like?  I know 
he will like the cost a whole lot better than the frontrunners.
Doug in big ditch

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Jul 31 11:25:26 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:25:26 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Interesting article ... not LSR
Message-ID: <02cf8bb6d10e33bbe2453d1048ac4472@comcast.net>

I got a great "fast lap" of the 4 1/2 mile long track at the Miller 
Motorsports Park yesterday with Desiree Wilson.  I still have a smile 
on my face.

I've been reading another list where a guy is defending his 
environmentally friendly Prius.  Another contributor sent this link 
that was very interesting to read.  Carbon footprint and environmental 
footprint may be ways to determine how green we are ... with the Prius 
losing BIG TIME.

Wes

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Jul 31 11:37:59 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:37:59 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Lsr news
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16555@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=16540

Yet another guy gets a red hat (maybe) before I do . . . .

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Jul 31 12:47:54 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:47:54 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] guess it would help if I sent a link ...
Message-ID: <8836b4ed89e904683f230899b39975a4@comcast.net>

http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=11001