From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Aug  1 08:36:11 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:36:11 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] world clock - not LSR
Message-ID: <d35521fb85d36a2aaad9192f431f5107@comcast.net>

Something to do while waiting for the water to evaporate from the salt 
flats ...

http://www.peterrussell.dreamhosters.com/Odds/WorldClock.php

From rbuck at xmission.com  Wed Aug  1 09:48:26 2007
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:48:26 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Wendover weather (was: world clock - not LSR)
In-Reply-To: <d35521fb85d36a2aaad9192f431f5107@comcast.net>
References: <d35521fb85d36a2aaad9192f431f5107@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070801094605.0364d010@xmission.com>

Looks like there's a fair chance of more rain today and tonite:
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=wendover%2C+ut

Makes one wonder.

Wes, are ya gonna be at Miller's this weekend?  If I see ya, I'll say 
hi.  I'm jealous of the ride ya got with Desiree Wilson.  :)

Ray

At 08:36 AM 08/01/2007, Wester Potter wrote:
>Something to do while waiting for the water to evaporate from the salt
>flats ...
>
>http://www.peterrussell.dreamhosters.com/Odds/WorldClock.php

From dpitts at telusplanet.net  Wed Aug  1 09:54:54 2007
From: dpitts at telusplanet.net (dpitts at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed,  1 Aug 2007 09:54:54 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed]  Tires OEM H Rated
Message-ID: <1185983694.46b0acceaa5c4@webmail.telus.net>

Doug,
The first time we came to Bonneville we tried the 130 club during the World of 
Speed event. I thought 130 mph no problem. Not as easy as it sounds with a 
aerodynamic brick of a 70 Camaro. Best speed of 122mph. We calculated 20 mph 
of wheel spin thru the 1 mile trap.  Over the winter I figure we would try 
snow  tires (being from Canada and all).I tracked down some Michelin Artic 
Alpine 225/60R16 with an H speed rating. (26.6" diameter) When we showed up 
the next September, Roger and his team had blown their engine in their Camaro, 
and in typical Bonneville generosity, offered us their front runners. We made 
no modifications to the power train from the year before,and ran 137 mph first 
pass, and backed it up with 136 mph. Just for fun we removed the front runners 
and put the street rubber back on with 50 PSI. Best pass of 131mph. 
Conclusion: Front runners worth 5 mph, snows worth 9 mph. I didn't try front 
runners front and rear as a third option. I was pretty happy with the results 
this may work for your friend.

Darrell Pitts
Alberta Canada

Quoting DougOdom <dlodom at charter.net>:

> A friend is building an E or F Diesel truck. It will only go about 130 
> mph.  He asked me about tires. Book says OEM H rated.  OK, I have never 
> run street tires at Bonneville or El Mirage so I'm asking anyone out 
> there  that runs a small  car or truck what tires do you like?  I know 
> he will like the cost a whole lot better than the frontrunners.
> Doug in big ditch
> _______________________________________________
> dpitts at telusplanet.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Aug  1 11:48:58 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:48:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Tires   OEM H Rated
Message-ID: <001601c7d464$403b1360$6401a8c0@S>

Forwarded to list
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "DougOdom" <dlodom at charter.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tires OEM H Rated


> VR tires have been OEM stuff on Volvos for some years now. Some of the
older
> ones have sizes and profiles that look appropriate for fendered vehicles
and
> may fit on good available OEM steel wheels, especially if you don't mind
an
> inch or two of excess width and don't need that extra one mph to break the
> record.  You might be able to cut a pretty good deal (like even free, with
> your local tire shop for a partially worn down but good set.  Sounds like
a
> possibility to me...BUT...I'm no expert and would hope this post invites
> some commentary from you guys who are really in the know.  Like where can
> you likely go wrong with this approach?  Is there a "hot combination of
> wheel and tire that some land speed racer has already discovered?
> I'm not talking Long Course cars here.  And if I had somewhere on the
north
> side of $10-20K invested in my racing project I think I'd want something a
> bit above a set of "junkyard tires".
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "DougOdom" <dlodom at charter.net>
> To: "Landspeed List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:25 AM
> Subject: [Land-speed] Tires OEM H Rated
> > A friend is building an E or F Diesel truck. It will only go about 130
> > mph.  He asked me about tires. Book says OEM H rated.  OK, I have never
> > run street tires at Bonneville or El Mirage so I'm asking anyone out
> > there  that runs a small  car or truck what tires do you like?  I know
> > he will like the cost a whole lot better than the frontrunners.
> > Doug in big ditch

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  1 12:24:51 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:24:51 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tires OEM H Rated
Message-ID: <17104368.1185992692079.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I have run Michelin XVS radial tires on both my 40 Chev and roadster. The tire is a 215 listed tire at 28" tall; they were use on highway patrol vehicles in the mid 70"s. They are rated as an "H". They are narrow by todays standards. My coupe has been 153 on them and my roadster has been 165. I still have them and would use them again.

If I were looking to use an "H" tire I would look to the narrowest possible. At one time BF Goodrich had a highway pursuit tire which was also H rated for those old heavy Dodges and Chryslers...Good Luck 

>Quoting DougOdom <dlodom at charter.net>:
>
>> A friend is building an E or F Diesel truck. It will only go about 130 
>> mph.  He asked me about tires. Book says OEM H rated.  OK, I have never 
>> run street tires at Bonneville or El Mirage so I'm asking anyone out 
>> there  that runs a small  car or truck what tires do you like?  I know 
>> he will like the cost a whole lot better than the frontrunners.
>> Doug in big ditch

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Wed Aug  1 16:53:07 2007
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:53:07 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] world clock - not LSR
Message-ID: <20516858.1186008787202.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml20.mgt.cox.net>

It's hauntingly entertaining to say the least.   I was watching the cardiac drop-dead counter when I felt a little pang  in the upper left quadrant  (hopefully just indigestion from this  Mc Donalds chocolate shake..) and considered how lucky I was that  16,234,177 was somebody elses number.    The thought crossed my mind to hack  in and add "SCTA Blue Hats" just below bicycles and computers,   knowing for certain  that at least one fool on this planet would be checking it out every day,  all winter long just  waiting for it tick over... 

Time Until Bonneville Speedweek 2007
09 Days, 11 Hours, 12 Minutes, 01 Seconds (but who's counting...) 

---- Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net> wrote: 
> Something to do while waiting for the water to evaporate from the salt 
> flats ...
> 
> http://www.peterrussell.dreamhosters.com/Odds/WorldClock.php
> _______________________________________________
> ifixmgs at cox.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Aug  1 23:12:31 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:12:31 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt report
Message-ID: <1dabd890fde0f4805c204b3e6c0c41cc@comcast.net>

Not much to tell that isn't on the SCTA web page.  Larry Volk had been 
out on the salt, drove out to about the three mile markers and crossed 
all three courses which were under water at that point.  There are more 
thunderstorms predicted for tomorrow but the pattern for rain seems to 
be moving away from the salt flats.  The SCTA/BNI officials will be on 
the salt Saturday and Sunday and word is they will give a thumbs up or 
thumbs down at that time.  With predicted highs in the upper nineties 
it looks positive for quick drying of the course right now.  The salt 
flats can dry about 1/2 inch of water a day under these conditions.  
Larry says they will still have to drag the courses unless the drying 
gets rid of some of the bumpy areas under the water.

A month ago the salt was in great shape, rare at that time of the year, 
the courses had been dragged and were in super shape.  It's too bad 
USFRA isn't still doing our unprofitable July meet.  It would have been 
hot but on a great surface.

Glen Barrett lives in Washington, UT, near an area with flooding in the 
South West part of the state near Zion National Park.  He won't have to 
water his lawn for a week or so.  Gunlock reservoir a few miles away is 
nearly full and could be sending flood waters into the Virgin River by 
tomorrow.  Six homes have been damaged by the flooding at the last 
report.  I'm hoping Rick Vesco is high and dry at his new home.

Wes

From kturk at ala.net  Wed Aug  1 23:24:44 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 00:24:44 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt report
References: <1dabd890fde0f4805c204b3e6c0c41cc@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <013c01c7d4c5$70ff8bf0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Did he say how deep the water was?

K

From saltracer at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  2 04:14:52 2007
From: saltracer at hotmail.com (Phillip Landry)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 05:14:52 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] NSRA Nats
Message-ID: <BAY103-F26C2A80B974D13ADB94541A2E90@phx.gbl>

My son and I will be at the Street Rod Nationals this weekend. 337 654 4883 
if anyone would like to get together. Phil and Sean Landry

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 100_0219.JPG]

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Thu Aug  2 08:39:03 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:39:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt report
Message-ID: <16327863.1186065543232.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

It's time to be concerned but not to panic...yet. We have arrived on a Tuesdays to start setting up a few years back and had to fight water until Monday when limited running was done. By Tuesday of Speedweek all was OK and we ran thru Friday. Many records were set by those who could stay.

What is unfortunate is those who must travel cross country and those who go to work at the salt. For those you you who must leave have a person watching the websites to give you a call while your on the road. Make sure you carry your hotel # to cancel your rooms if it is cancelled.

One of our concerns is also to not destroy the salt surface will all of our trucks and trailers when driving the 3-4 miles to the pits. Damn hard on a truck.

I like some of you will be leaving at 0200 Sunday morning with my phone on hoping for the best.
Good Luck....JD

For all you newbies..........This is normal

From Askotto at aol.com  Thu Aug  2 13:01:25 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:01:25 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...
Message-ID: <d1a.109ae7d1.33e38405@aol.com>

Sooooooo I was perusing the newly designed SCTA web site and read the July  
2007 newsletter. It seems a plan very similar to what I proposed after SW 2006  
to expand to two tracks that run both short and long course vehicles is being 
 adopted. The SCTA upped my anti and added a new third special short course 
to  boot. Also the Pre-stage and stage areas are moved together behind the 
starting  line like I advocated. It all makes sense.
 
It's nice to see parallel thinking on top where it matters. Interestingly,  
all the feedback I received from the list was a barrage of negativity on  how 
it would never work, all the way to threats of severed limbs from Glens  
Daughter and co-timer.
 
Thanks go to the SCTA board for addressing the problem of being "too  
popular" these days and making progressive steps to stay abreast of the sports  
current needs. Bravo to all.
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Aug  2 13:27:42 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 13:27:42 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...
References: <d1a.109ae7d1.33e38405@aol.com>
Message-ID: <011001c7d53b$32684730$6401a8c0@Glens>

Well if my daughter sent you e-mail is must have been a PM. BTW, Otto, you 
are not the first to come up with this pre stage and stage. Many times it is 
a matter of real estate in the starting area and how far it's moved down. 
One year we were back to far and had a couple of 18 wheelers stuck along 
with a motorhome for the week. The area was so soft the cars coming back on 
the return road had to he detoured and escorted across. to the pits. No, 
your idea was not original this time.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Askotto at aol.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:01 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...


> Sooooooo I was perusing the newly designed SCTA web site and read the July
> 2007 newsletter. It seems a plan very similar to what I proposed after SW 
> 2006
> to expand to two tracks that run both short and long course vehicles is 
> being
> adopted. The SCTA upped my anti and added a new third special short course
> to  boot. Also the Pre-stage and stage areas are moved together behind the
> starting  line like I advocated. It all makes sense.
>
> It's nice to see parallel thinking on top where it matters. Interestingly,
> all the feedback I received from the list was a barrage of negativity on 
> how
> it would never work, all the way to threats of severed limbs from Glens
> Daughter and co-timer.
>
> Thanks go to the SCTA board for addressing the problem of being "too
> popular" these days and making progressive steps to stay abreast of the 
> sports
> current needs. Bravo to all.
>
> Otto

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Aug  2 13:38:01 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:38:01 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...
In-Reply-To: <011001c7d53b$32684730$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <006301c7d53c$a3d185c0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Can we al say Riddilen together?? Think of it as a sing along..

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Glen Barrett
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 3:28 PM
To: Askotto at aol.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...


Well if my daughter sent you e-mail is must have been a PM. BTW, Otto,
you
are not the first to come up with this pre stage and stage. Many times
it is
a matter of real estate in the starting area and how far it's moved
down.
One year we were back to far and had a couple of 18 wheelers stuck along

with a motorhome for the week. The area was so soft the cars coming back
on
the return road had to he detoured and escorted across. to the pits. No,

your idea was not original this time.
Glen
----- Original Message -----
From: <Askotto at aol.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:01 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...


> Sooooooo I was perusing the newly designed SCTA web site and read the
> July 2007 newsletter. It seems a plan very similar to what I proposed
> after SW 2006 to expand to two tracks that run both short and long
> course vehicles is being
> adopted. The SCTA upped my anti and added a new third special short
course
> to  boot. Also the Pre-stage and stage areas are moved together behind
the
> starting  line like I advocated. It all makes sense.
>
> It's nice to see parallel thinking on top where it matters.
> Interestingly, all the feedback I received from the list was a barrage

> of negativity on how it would never work, all the way to threats of
> severed limbs from Glens Daughter and co-timer.
>
> Thanks go to the SCTA board for addressing the problem of being "too
> popular" these days and making progressive steps to stay abreast of
> the sports current needs. Bravo to all.
>
> Otto
_______________________________________________
ddahlgren at snet.net

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/918 - Release Date:
7/25/2007 2:55 PM


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/918 - Release Date:
7/25/2007 2:55 PM

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Aug  2 14:06:46 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:06:46 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...
References: <006301c7d53c$a3d185c0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <012201c7d540$a7bc57b0$6401a8c0@Glens>

SAY PROZAC. LOL
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: "'Glen Barrett'" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; <Askotto at aol.com>; 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...


Can we al say Riddilen together?? Think of it as a sing along..  SAY PROZAC

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Glen Barrett
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 3:28 PM
To: Askotto at aol.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...


Well if my daughter sent you e-mail is must have been a PM. BTW, Otto,
you
are not the first to come up with this pre stage and stage. Many times
it is
a matter of real estate in the starting area and how far it's moved
down.
One year we were back to far and had a couple of 18 wheelers stuck along

with a motorhome for the week. The area was so soft the cars coming back
on
the return road had to he detoured and escorted across. to the pits. No,

your idea was not original this time.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Askotto at aol.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:01 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...


> Sooooooo I was perusing the newly designed SCTA web site and read the
> July 2007 newsletter. It seems a plan very similar to what I proposed
> after SW 2006 to expand to two tracks that run both short and long
> course vehicles is being
> adopted. The SCTA upped my anti and added a new third special short
course
> to  boot. Also the Pre-stage and stage areas are moved together behind
the
> starting  line like I advocated. It all makes sense.
>
> It's nice to see parallel thinking on top where it matters.
> Interestingly, all the feedback I received from the list was a barrage

> of negativity on how it would never work, all the way to threats of
> severed limbs from Glens Daughter and co-timer.
>
> Thanks go to the SCTA board for addressing the problem of being "too
> popular" these days and making progressive steps to stay abreast of
> the sports current needs. Bravo to all.
>
> Otto
_______________________________________________
ddahlgren at snet.net

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/918 - Release Date:
7/25/2007 2:55 PM


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/918 - Release Date:
7/25/2007 2:55 PM

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Thu Aug  2 14:39:32 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 13:39:32 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...
In-Reply-To: <012201c7d540$a7bc57b0$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <006301c7d53c$a3d185c0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
	<012201c7d540$a7bc57b0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <20070802203955.8F828187A02@autox.team.net>

I thought it was Al Gore's idea......like the Internet.
S





At 01:06 PM 8/2/2007, Glen Barrett wrote:
>SAY PROZAC. LOL
>GB
>----- Original Message ----- From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
>To: "'Glen Barrett'" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; <Askotto at aol.com>; 
><land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:38 PM
>Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...
>
>
>Can we al say Riddilen together?? Think of it as a sing along..  SAY PROZAC
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
>[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
>Of Glen Barrett
>Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 3:28 PM
>To: Askotto at aol.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...
>
>
>Well if my daughter sent you e-mail is must have been a PM. BTW, Otto,
>you
>are not the first to come up with this pre stage and stage. Many times
>it is
>a matter of real estate in the starting area and how far it's moved
>down.
>One year we were back to far and had a couple of 18 wheelers stuck along
>
>with a motorhome for the week. The area was so soft the cars coming back
>on
>the return road had to he detoured and escorted across. to the pits. No,
>
>your idea was not original this time.
>Glen

From karlepayne55 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 15:28:41 2007
From: karlepayne55 at yahoo.com (Karl Payne)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:28:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] One (1) Wendover room available - Please contact me
Message-ID: <273425.95272.qm@web34309.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

All,
  I have a reservation for one room at the State Line Nugget for August 8th thru the 18th, but I can use the room ONLY for two nights: Saturday the 11th and Sunday the 12th.  
   If you can use a room in Wendover during the Aug. 8 - Aug 10 period, and / 
  or the Aug 13 - 18 period please respond to my email below:
   
  payne.karl at orbital.com
   
  I will be glad to help you out on a first come first served basis.  You can buy me a cold drink on the salt.   :- )
  Please be considerate and financially responsible as you do this.  Nobody wants to get stuck with a bill for something they can't use.  This offer is open only until the middle of next week, at which time I will cancel and release control of any nights that are not spoken for.
   
  I hope this helps somebody,
   
  Karl Payne

       
---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 

From Askotto at aol.com  Thu Aug  2 20:37:05 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:37:05 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...
Message-ID: <cfd.15e3c747.33e3eed1@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/2/2007 1:30:05 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

No,  
your idea was not original this time.



Never said it was, just great minds think alike and I praise the  SCTA.
 
Otto
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Aug  2 20:53:08 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 19:53:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars
Message-ID: <000a01c7d579$6dc87000$3d01000a@Dale>

What is a nerf bar?
I just had running board tubes installed on my Tundra and they called them
nerf bars. In the old days nerf bars replaced the bumpers? Or am I over the
hill again?
dale
moving to Reno, nv tomorrow to await speedweek
dark and 80 in meridian .id

From Askotto at aol.com  Thu Aug  2 20:56:12 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:56:12 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Great minds think alike...
Message-ID: <ccf.1361e0b0.33e3f34c@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/2/2007 1:38:14 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
ddahlgren at snet.net writes:

Can we  al say Riddilen together?? Think of it as a sing alon
 
 



So Dave, why the personal attacks again? The SCTA adopts an idea I  mentioned 
even though someone else in the SCTA allegedly thought of first. I was  the 
first to put it in print on this forum for what's that worth and you attack  me 
because I take meds. At least I'M not in denial and doing something for  MY 
condition.
 
Besides how can you knock me when the SCTA had the same idea. At least I  
make constructive comments to help the sport.
 
Otto



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From adin at frontier.net  Thu Aug  2 22:11:09 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:11:09 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars
In-Reply-To: <000a01c7d579$6dc87000$3d01000a@Dale>
References: <000a01c7d579$6dc87000$3d01000a@Dale>
Message-ID: <20070802221109.n0hrd9u348k4gk0o@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Nerf bars, as I invented them, were small bumperette-ish items  
replacing bumpers.  At least in norcal in the 60s.

These days, folks might call anything anything with no more authority  
than "I said so" - imo.

You may be over the hill anyway and that's ok.

David, also invented the IC engine, refrigeration, the wheel, the  
stairmaster, thong underwear and pasties. (I said so.)


(its mostly jokes, don't get eggsighted.)




Quoting Dale H Pulju <d.pulju at pahrump.com>:

> What is a nerf bar?
> I just had running board tubes installed on my Tundra and they called them
> nerf bars. In the old days nerf bars replaced the bumpers? Or am I over the
> hill again?
> dale

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Fri Aug  3 02:45:52 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 04:45:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars
In-Reply-To: <20070802221109.n0hrd9u348k4gk0o@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>
Message-ID: <002001c7d5aa$b35112e0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Nerf bars are on the side.. God only knows changed enough of them in the
70's while racing short track modifieds..LOL Lottsa nerfing going on
there had one driver that said it was always easier to get through a
corner with 8 tires rather than the 4 we had on the car if that helps
with the visual..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of adin at frontier.net
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:11 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars


Nerf bars, as I invented them, were small bumperette-ish items
replacing bumpers.  At least in norcal in the 60s.

These days, folks might call anything anything with no more authority
than "I said so" - imo.

You may be over the hill anyway and that's ok.

David, also invented the IC engine, refrigeration, the wheel, the
stairmaster, thong underwear and pasties. (I said so.)


(its mostly jokes, don't get eggsighted.)

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/918 - Release Date:
7/25/2007 2:55 PM

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Aug  3 06:19:11 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 06:19:11 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] While waiting for the water to dry ...
Message-ID: <14b4bee07722b27272ed5f3f587f74a5@comcast.net>

This is a history every salt flats racer needs to know and appreciate.  
Reed Railton doesn't get the credit he deserves for designing the land 
speed cars and actually being the one Jenkins convinced to bring his 
British friends to try the salt flats for racing, among other 
omissions.  You'll notice that rain on the salt isn't a new happening.

Ab (rhymes with cab) Jenkins was an interesting character.  Brash at 
times, outspoken, a show off in his own way.  Auburn boat tail 
speedsters in 1935 carried a dash plaque certifying that the car had 
been driven over 100 MPH by Ab Jenkins before it left the factory.  Ab 
won the Salt Lake City mayor's race in 1939 by 51 votes without 
spending a penny or giving a campaign speech.  Some of his 100 or so 
endurance records have never been broken.  His association with the 
Duesenberg brothers and with the President of Firestone could make a 
book.  His own "Story of Speed"  The Salt of the Earth is a small book 
of 124 pages that is still available in paperback.  (I took the Save 
the Salt picture of Rick Vesco and Larry Volk on page 118 in the 
revised edition).  Gordon Eliot White's book Ab & Marvin Jenkins: The 
Studebaker Connection and the Mormon Meteors does a good job of filling 
in some of the details.  White is a Bonneville racing veteran and 
curator of the racing collection at the Smithsonian.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C695196997%2C00.html

From jon at infodestruction.com  Fri Aug  3 06:59:41 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:59:41 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] We're outa here...
Message-ID: <AFA20D62-B535-4303-8AF6-45EE6B98DB00@infodestruction.com>

It's 9 AM Friday, and Nancy and I are leaving now for Bonneville.   
Last year about seven of you called us as we were in mid-Nebraska --  
telling us to turn around, World Finals was cancelled.  I've given  
out the cellphone number to a batch of youse guys -- so that oughta  
be enough -- don't need more than four or five calls to make me  
believe it really is cancelled, you're not pulling my leg.

See you on the Salt, boys and girls!

          Nancy & Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From kturk at ala.net  Fri Aug  3 07:43:15 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:43:15 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars
References: <002001c7d5aa$b35112e0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <005e01c7d5d4$3f254a60$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Funny how different sections of the country call them different things.... 
Front in California for sure.... but I'd call that side bar on a circle 
track car a nerf bar as well.... so maybe it's simply a term for something 
that protects the car.

Hmmm

Keith 

From dlodom at charter.net  Fri Aug  3 10:14:09 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 09:14:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA Information phone number
Message-ID: <46B35451.8020104@charter.net>

Does the SCTA have a phone number with an answering machine that will 
give out the latest information on Bonneville? If not, why? Can't cost 
much and would be nice to be able to call while on the road with 
everyone having cell phones.  NOT bitchin, just wondering.   Doug Odom 
in big ditch

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Fri Aug  3 10:53:52 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:53:52 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA Information phone number
In-Reply-To: <46B35451.8020104@charter.net>
References: <46B35451.8020104@charter.net>
Message-ID: <fcaeb7836cf1b855afc11055a85bea85@comcast.net>

We ask for cell phone numbers on our USFRA entry forms.  Helps to 
notify folks before they get to the salt (or hopefully not too far from 
home) when we have a go or no go situation.  We scrambled in 2000 that 
way.  Ellen was on her cell phone at the end of the access road, I was 
at the truck stop pay phone with a calling card.  Joe Law was west of 
Chicago when we caught him.  That's a long way from Fairmont, WV.  
Those who have to travel that far really need all the help they can get 
when there are cancellation possibilities.

Wes

On Aug 3, 2007, at 10:14 AM, DougOdom wrote:

> Does the SCTA have a phone number with an answering machine that will
> give out the latest information on Bonneville? If not, why? Can't cost
> much and would be nice to be able to call while on the road with
> everyone having cell phones.  NOT bitchin, just wondering.   Doug Odom
> in big ditch
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Aug  3 10:53:11 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:53:11 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA Information phone number
References: <46B35451.8020104@charter.net>
Message-ID: <006001c7d5ee$c71da510$6401a8c0@Glens>

559-528-6279
Note: There is nothing posted as yet. There will be an inspection of the 
salt tomorrow. It will be posted on the web sites and on the phone answering 
machine. It will be official from SCTA only.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DougOdom" <dlodom at charter.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:14 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA Information phone number


> Does the SCTA have a phone number with an answering machine that will
> give out the latest information on Bonneville? If not, why? Can't cost
> much and would be nice to be able to call while on the road with
> everyone having cell phones.  NOT bitchin, just wondering.   Doug Odom
> in big ditch

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Aug  3 11:05:49 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 10:05:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA Information phone number
In-Reply-To: <46B35451.8020104@charter.net>
References: <46B35451.8020104@charter.net>
Message-ID: <46B3606D.30500@mayfco.com>

Well, now that is just a plain old good idea. Get a temporary 800  
number call in only line. Hell, I would even chip in for that. After the 
event turn it off.  Set it up for EM also.

mayf
DougOdom wrote:

>Does the SCTA have a phone number with an answering machine that will 
>give out the latest information on Bonneville? If not, why? Can't cost 
>much and would be nice to be able to call while on the road with 
>everyone having cell phones.  NOT bitchin, just wondering.   Doug Odom 
>in big ditch
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  3 11:25:34 2007
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:25:34 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars
In-Reply-To: <005e01c7d5d4$3f254a60$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <002001c7d5aa$b35112e0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
	<005e01c7d5d4$3f254a60$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <45ac72e90708031025j5a784350o1afb4a50a2041914@mail.gmail.com>

I think what happened is that you are all correct. Keith on the most
probable; regional. However, I believe that any type of round bar/tube
prohecting from front, rear, or sides, to "protect" the vehicle was
called a nerf bar. The tublular stuff on the front of AC cobras were
nerf bars, as were the vertical short bars with flat-stock bolted to
the fram horns. These vertical bars looked like push bars that might
be used by dry lakes racers. And everyone emulated those guys.
Possible???

Bob D.

On 8/3/07, Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net> wrote:
> Funny how different sections of the country call them different things....
> Front in California for sure.... but I'd call that side bar on a circle
> track car a nerf bar as well.... so maybe it's simply a term for something
> that protects the car.
>
> Hmmm
>
> Keith

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Aug  3 11:33:54 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 11:33:54 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars
References: <002001c7d5aa$b35112e0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405><005e01c7d5d4$3f254a60$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<45ac72e90708031025j5a784350o1afb4a50a2041914@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007c01c7d5f4$77121a00$6401a8c0@Glens>

As I recall they were used on the sides of midgets and sprints to keep the 
wheels from getting into the side of the cars, on hot rods I think I have 
seen a couple of hundred different designs, front, rear and sides. Think I 
will google and see what they say.
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert J. Denton" <rjdenton479 at gmail.com>
To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars


>I think what happened is that you are all correct. Keith on the most
> probable; regional. However, I believe that any type of round bar/tube
> prohecting from front, rear, or sides, to "protect" the vehicle was
> called a nerf bar. The tublular stuff on the front of AC cobras were
> nerf bars, as were the vertical short bars with flat-stock bolted to
> the fram horns. These vertical bars looked like push bars that might
> be used by dry lakes racers. And everyone emulated those guys.
> Possible???
>
> Bob D.
>
> On 8/3/07, Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net> wrote:
>> Funny how different sections of the country call them different 
>> things....
>> Front in California for sure.... but I'd call that side bar on a circle
>> track car a nerf bar as well.... so maybe it's simply a term for 
>> something
>> that protects the car.
>>
>> Hmmm
>>
>> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Aug  3 11:46:05 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 10:46:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars
In-Reply-To: <45ac72e90708031025j5a784350o1afb4a50a2041914@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002001c7d5aa$b35112e0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
	<005e01c7d5d4$3f254a60$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<45ac72e90708031025j5a784350o1afb4a50a2041914@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46B369DD.70100@mayfco.com>

Those little thingys on the front of the Cobra's were jack points. They 
used the kind that slip up under and the pit guy just lifter the car off 
the ground with them.  Pretty slick.

mayf
Robert J. Denton wrote:

>I think what happened is that you are all correct. Keith on the most
>probable; regional. However, I believe that any type of round bar/tube
>prohecting from front, rear, or sides, to "protect" the vehicle was
>called a nerf bar. The tublular stuff on the front of AC cobras were
>nerf bars, as were the vertical short bars with flat-stock bolted to
>the fram horns. These vertical bars looked like push bars that might
>be used by dry lakes racers. And everyone emulated those guys.
>Possible???
>
>Bob D.
>
>On 8/3/07, Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>Funny how different sections of the country call them different things....
>>Front in California for sure.... but I'd call that side bar on a circle
>>track car a nerf bar as well.... so maybe it's simply a term for something
>>that protects the car.
>>
>>Hmmm
>>
>>Keith
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From mactem at mebtel.net  Fri Aug  3 13:01:07 2007
From: mactem at mebtel.net (Mobley-Anderson)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:01:07 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars
Message-ID: <003501c7d600$a6df61f0$0400a8c0@brightstar>

How come nerf bars are so hard and nerf balls are so soft?  Does it make
any sense that they are both "nerf"?
David

From FastmetalBDF at aol.com  Fri Aug  3 13:23:03 2007
From: FastmetalBDF at aol.com (FastmetalBDF at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:23:03 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars( They are at Front & Rear )
Message-ID: <c0f.d91a9bb.33e4da97@aol.com>

On the question regarding nerf bars, I have always  of heard the handcrafted 
front and rear bumpers on racecars( midgets, sprint  cars, Indy cars, 
especially of the '30s through '60s era, and the modifieds  and supermodifieds ) 
referred to as the Nerf Bars ...... Having been around  oval track racing from 1948 
to 1983, I have also always heard of the  sidebars on any of these racecars 
referred to as Rub Rails, never as nerf bars  if they were the protective ones 
on the on the sides of the car.  For as  far back as I know, the term nerf bar 
also meant the various and  beautifully-crafted homemade bars, some solid 
steel, and some formed from  tubing, was used regarding all Hot Rods that 
displayed these.  Many of  these were works of metalworking art, with all welds 
ground down and the joints  filled in with brass for a one-piece blended look.  
Lots of  guys welded one or more of their initials on( the front one, mostly ),  
and the work involved prior to plating was quite extensive.  Any of us that  
have welded up our own custom headers, complete from flange to collectors 
......  or all the way to the mufflers and exhaust tips on street cars, can really  
appreciate the hours of work needed to ' do it right 'and make them worthy of 
 the racecar or hot rod . Maybe the newer crowd in the pits at oval races  
now call those side rubrails ' nerf bars', but I myself never heard that term  
for those on the car's side, during my time as spectator, railbird, pit  crew, 
and fabricator during five different decades around the oval tracks  in the 
Northeast.   Just my two cents worth here   ~   old guy Bruce here in 
Connecticut, which now only has three active oval tracks  left : Waterford Speedbowl in 
my town, Stafford Motor Speedway in Stafford  Springs, and Thompson Speedway 
in Thompson, a 5/8 mile asphalt oval that has  seen some great racing in many 
classes on that oval since BEFORE WWII, and also  the road race course there 
that is also now long-gone like so many other  oval tracks, both asphalt and 
dirt, in New England( and much of America  )   ~   It WAS a Golden Era in auto 
racing, indeed  !!!



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From BWANA343 at aol.com  Fri Aug  3 20:23:36 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 22:23:36 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] SCTA Information phone number
Message-ID: <c64.16c75560.33e53d28@aol.com>

There is a service that charges very little but is very fast and efficient  
to deliver a phone message to a large group. It is 
_http://www.callingpost.com/_ (http://www.callingpost.com/)  , and  has been in use by friends of mine in 
the NYFD for instant notification for many  years. For example,a retired 
member dies or a promotion takes place, you simply  call the service, leave a 
message, and it sends out the info simultaneously to  every number on the list.
Sure beats out the bad old days when the junior man went into the coin  op 
phone booth and called everybody up, one at a time. Check it out !!
Bob, junior man 40 years ago,W



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From BWANA343 at aol.com  Fri Aug  3 20:42:17 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 22:42:17 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars
Message-ID: <d66.fe52b20.33e54189@aol.com>

I seem to have a dim memory (as opposed to the usual foggy) of the Nerf bar  
actually being invented and named after a guy, probably SoCal type, in the  
50's. Somebody, probably on the HAMB list could corroborate this, I hope.   He 
probaly had a cousin named Wham-o..LOL
Bob, a nerfs enough,W



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From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Aug  4 06:17:01 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 05:17:01 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] =?iso-8859-1?q?deseretnews=2Ecom_=7C_The_need_for_sp?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?eed_-_Bonneville_Salt_Flats_is_home_to_many_world_speed_re?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?cords?=
Message-ID: <000501c7d691$5d33b420$9d01a8c0@Dale>

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,695196997,00.html

the need for speed
dale
dark and 65 in boardertown, nv

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Aug  4 05:59:30 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 06:59:30 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt up-date today?
Message-ID: <000201c7d698$4e6196e0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Man I've been sitting on my hands here in Alabama... ( okay what time I've
actually been here and not in LA )...

The deal is that I've got to pack my truck only... just our pit set up.. cause
the car's in LA... it leaves at the end of the week.... I leave today...

The only question is where am I going?  New Orleans?  or Bonneville...  DO I
tear my shop apart today or not?   The SCTA is going to give us an update
today...  hmmm  other then that it's been 4 days since anyone has been to the
salt...

What to do... What to do...

Keith

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Sat Aug  4 07:23:16 2007
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 9:23:16 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr nerf bars
Message-ID: <32448097.1186233796983.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml20.mgt.cox.net>

Maybe it comes from the French (nerf = nerve)  as in giving a Frenchman the cojones to actually hit something without the fear of being hit back....


---- BWANA343 at aol.com wrote: 
> I seem to have a dim memory (as opposed to the usual foggy) of the Nerf bar  
> actually being invented and named after a guy, probably SoCal type, in the  
> 50's. Somebody, probably on the HAMB list could corroborate this, I hope.   He 
> probaly had a cousin named Wham-o..LOL
> Bob, a nerfs enough,W
> 
> 
> 
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> ifixmgs at cox.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From fosterap at flash.net  Sat Aug  4 07:24:17 2007
From: fosterap at flash.net (JERRY FOSTER)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 06:24:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt up-date today?
In-Reply-To: <000201c7d698$4e6196e0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <533750.28605.qm@web80604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Well....I hope you guys get some good salt.  I can't make it this year....gonna be moving.  Good news is that I get a better shop area with more space at the new place.  I might try to sneak out to WOS.  Bet I can get a room then in Wendover.  Have fun guys!
  Jerry in Dallas.

Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net> wrote:
  Man I've been sitting on my hands here in Alabama... ( okay what time I've
actually been here and not in LA )...

The deal is that I've got to pack my truck only... just our pit set up.. cause
the car's in LA... it leaves at the end of the week.... I leave today...

The only question is where am I going? New Orleans? or Bonneville... DO I
tear my shop apart today or not? The SCTA is going to give us an update
today... hmmm other then that it's been 4 days since anyone has been to the
salt...

What to do... What to do...

Keith

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Aug  4 07:56:59 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 07:56:59 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt up-date today?
In-Reply-To: <533750.28605.qm@web80604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <533750.28605.qm@web80604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <72385d6f93b0a076bc7e7382b35fcbad@comcast.net>

Yeah, it's been four days since anyone went to the salt BUT the 
SCTA/BNI officials are due out there today!  While I wait for their 
opinions I'm going to go see some racing!

http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/php/mainevents/event3detail.html

No sense in just sitting around the phone when there's racing off Exit 
99 on I-80.  That's 95 miles from the Bonneville Salt flats exit and 21 
miles away from my driveway.

Wes

On Aug 4, 2007, at 7:24 AM, JERRY FOSTER wrote:

> Well....I hope you guys get some good salt.  I can't make it this 
> year....gonna be moving.  Good news is that I get a better shop area 
> with more space at the new place.  I might try to sneak out to WOS.  
> Bet I can get a room then in Wendover.  Have fun guys!
>   Jerry in Dallas.
>
> Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net> wrote:
>   Man I've been sitting on my hands here in Alabama... ( okay what 
> time I've
> actually been here and not in LA )...
>
> The deal is that I've got to pack my truck only... just our pit set 
> up.. cause
> the car's in LA... it leaves at the end of the week.... I leave 
> today...
>
> The only question is where am I going? New Orleans? or Bonneville... 
> DO I
> tear my shop apart today or not? The SCTA is going to give us an update
> today... hmmm other then that it's been 4 days since anyone has been 
> to the
> salt...
>
> What to do... What to do...
>
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Aug  4 08:11:38 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 07:11:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt up-date today?
References: <533750.28605.qm@web80604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<72385d6f93b0a076bc7e7382b35fcbad@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001801c7d6a1$5ff18150$9d01a8c0@Dale>

Well I went in the wrong direction, should have gone to Utah instead of Reno
dale
ssuunnyy and 63 in Reno,nv

Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Salt up-date today?


> Yeah, it's been four days since anyone went to the salt BUT the 
> SCTA/BNI officials are due out there today!  While I wait for their 
> opinions I'm going to go see some racing!
> 
> http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/php/mainevents/event3detail.html
> 
> No sense in just sitting around the phone when there's racing off Exit 
> 99 on I-80.  That's 95 miles from the Bonneville Salt flats exit and 21 
> miles away from my driveway.
> 
> Wes
> 
> On Aug 4, 2007, at 7:24 AM, JERRY FOSTER wrote:
> 
>> Well....I hope you guys get some good salt.  I can't make it this 
>> year....gonna be moving.  Good news is that I get a better shop area 
>> with more space at the new place.  I might try to sneak out to WOS.  
>> Bet I can get a room then in Wendover.  Have fun guys!
>>   Jerry in Dallas.
>>
>> Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net> wrote:
>>   Man I've been sitting on my hands here in Alabama... ( okay what 
>> time I've
>> actually been here and not in LA )...
>>
>> The deal is that I've got to pack my truck only... just our pit set 
>> up.. cause
>> the car's in LA... it leaves at the end of the week.... I leave 
>> today...
>>
>> The only question is where am I going? New Orleans? or Bonneville... 
>> DO I
>> tear my shop apart today or not? The SCTA is going to give us an update
>> today... hmmm other then that it's been 4 days since anyone has been 
>> to the
>> salt...
>>
>> What to do... What to do...
>>
>> Keith

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 08:45:46 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 07:45:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] 99 miles?
In-Reply-To: <72385d6f93b0a076bc7e7382b35fcbad@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <615593.6755.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

99 miles from the Bonneville Salt Flats and 21 miles from your driveway? ? ? ?  Wes, that is absolutely disgusting! ! !  I have to drive 21 miles just to reach the first paved road, and if I drive 99 miles I'm still in the same county! ! !     :)
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas 

Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net> wrote:
  Yeah, it's been four days since anyone went to the salt BUT the 
SCTA/BNI officials are due out there today! While I wait for their 
opinions I'm going to go see some racing!

http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/php/mainevents/event3detail.html

No sense in just sitting around the phone when there's racing off Exit 
99 on I-80. That's 95 miles from the Bonneville Salt flats exit and 21 
miles away from my driveway.

Wes

       
---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sat Aug  4 09:44:19 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:44:19 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Wendover
Message-ID: <004001c7d6ae$529e5430$6401a8c0@Glens>

Interesting article in today's Salt Lake Tribune regarding the 100 anniversary
of the city.  Mentioned Arfons, Breedlove and Jenkins as salt flat racers.
Also mentioned the population

Population
Wendover, Nevada, Latino 5091, 57%
Wendover, Utah,1632, Latino, 69%

There was no mention of SCTA, or USFRA or any other racers on the salt. A
small amount of information on the air base and the B-29 training for the
atomic bomb.

www.saltlaketribune,com

From jimwebb at nutsracing.com  Sat Aug  4 10:52:39 2007
From: jimwebb at nutsracing.com (Jim Webb)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 11:52:39 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] On Pins & Needles - Waiting Weather Report
Message-ID: <20070804165319.4E99D187AB4@autox.team.net>

Normally, we leave on Tuesday AM to arrive at the salt on Thursday.
Typically, that means that the truck has to be all finished the weekend
before, so all that's left is to pack the trucks and trailer and be ready
for an early departure.

 

This year is somewhat different. Here we are sitting with the truck about
90% together. The drivetrain is in and ready, but the rest of the sheet
metal is still scattered around the shop. There is a bit more fabrication to
do which requires quite a bit of my nice new sheet of aluminum that was
destined for the lakester. The deal is that the engine is a loaner for more
reasons than I care to go into. It should work great, but it's simply not my
junk, so I'd hate to break it. The owner needs it back as soon as we're done
'cause he's already started on his car.

 

We're at the decision point. keep assembling and whack up lots of luminum,
or start pulling it all apart???

 

I check Landracing, the list, and the SLC radar about every ten minutes! Of
course, if it's a go, we can just skip a few nights sleep - we don't need no
stinking sleep!

 

Jim Webb

Choc Full o' Nuts

A/PP B/PP ?/FL

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Aug  4 10:59:07 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 11:59:07 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] On Pins & Needles - Waiting Weather Report
References: <20070804165319.4E99D187AB4@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <002501c7d6b8$c5db2b30$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Jim like you I'm just a sitting  here waiting to hear anything from out 
west...

K 

From Jimwprice at aol.com  Sat Aug  4 12:13:00 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 14:13:00 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Sittin and a waiten
Message-ID: <ce7.1603078f.33e61bac@aol.com>

There are more plans in the air than 737's.



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Aug  4 14:46:05 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 15:46:05 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Sittin and a waiten
References: <ce7.1603078f.33e61bac@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005c01c7d6d8$7b9375d0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Okay Tonya and I are outta here.... call me if there's news other then we're 
going racing!!!

Keith 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Aug  4 16:03:08 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 15:03:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
Message-ID: <46B4F79C.1010104@mayfco.com>

Ok, so did the explorer party get lost on the way to the salt, lol? 
Having no clue as to what is involved in making a go/no go decision for 
the salt...why is it taking so long to wade out onto the lake, hmmm and 
haw a bit and flip a coin as to whether or not it will evaporate enough 
to start the meet on time... Some of my anxiety could be allievated by a 
description of the process involved in making such a large decision. I 
know that what ever it is, it wont be easy at all. But since I do not 
have that explanation, what the tarnation is taking so long...enquiring 
minds want to know, lol.

mayf, way off and far out in pahrump...

From Askotto at aol.com  Sat Aug  4 16:42:17 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:42:17 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] As usual, I have another brilliant solution!!!!
Message-ID: <d64.e2e595f.33e65ac9@aol.com>

We all know the weather can wipe out any Bonneville event and we can't  do 
anything about it. Currently the restrictive class rules require water  
unfriendly wheels and tires on every vehicle. This eliminates running on moist,  soft 
tracks much less on standing water.
 
I have a "fool proof" solution to race under any weather conditions,  even 
standing water!!! 
 
Bear with me. Have you seen the ski's you can put on the front of truck/car  
tires to glide across snow?  For the rear they put track treads  like a Snow 
Cat would have to power it through snow. Salt looks and acts just  like snow 
right?
 
Bingo! 
 
If we get watered out, we slap the ski's on the front and Snow Cat tracks  on 
the back!!! If the track is just mushy it would work great just like on  
snow! If there is standing water on the course, the front ski's would hydro  plane 
and the rear tracks would paddle across the top of the water just  like a 
duck on takeoff!!! Think of the rooster tails!!! I can't wait to make  mine for 
Ankle Biter!
 
I wonder if Snow Cat has 300 mph rated tracks??? Probably not. Wait! As an  
alternative to tracks, the rears could be equipped with ski's that have little  
Berkeley Jet drives on them!!! I'm Brilliant!
 
How about new class' for air boats??? Swamp buggies? Jet Ski's?
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From adin at frontier.net  Sat Aug  4 16:42:15 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:42:15 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
In-Reply-To: <46B4F79C.1010104@mayfco.com>
References: <46B4F79C.1010104@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20070804164215.bkwgbdikj4s8ksko@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Easy drmayf, it takes time to soak up all that liquid sunshine!


Quoting drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>:

> Ok, so did the explorer party get lost on the way to the salt, lol?
> Having no clue as to what is involved in making a go/no go decision for
> the salt...why is it taking so long to wade out onto the lake, hmmm and
> haw a bit and flip a coin as to whether or not it will evaporate enough
> to start the meet on time... Some of my anxiety could be allievated by a
> description of the process involved in making such a large decision. I
> know that what ever it is, it wont be easy at all. But since I do not
> have that explanation, what the tarnation is taking so long...enquiring
> minds want to know, lol.
>
> mayf, way off and far out in pahrump...
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Aug  4 16:44:15 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:44:15 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
In-Reply-To: <46B4F79C.1010104@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <007101c7d6e8$fe60c520$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

At this late hour time to cash in my plane tickets if things were good
and ok they would have been a long time ago now we are only down ton the
money lost if it does not happen..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of drmayf
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 6:03 PM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...


Ok, so did the explorer party get lost on the way to the salt, lol?
Having no clue as to what is involved in making a go/no go decision for
the salt...why is it taking so long to wade out onto the lake, hmmm and
haw a bit and flip a coin as to whether or not it will evaporate enough
to start the meet on time... Some of my anxiety could be allievated by a

description of the process involved in making such a large decision. I
know that what ever it is, it wont be easy at all. But since I do not
have that explanation, what the tarnation is taking so long...enquiring
minds want to know, lol.

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007
5:46 PM

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Aug  4 16:49:17 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:49:17 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] As usual, I have another brilliant  solution!!!!
In-Reply-To: <d64.e2e595f.33e65ac9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <007701c7d6e9$bb9bc360$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Have onother drink and take your drugs ok....

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Askotto at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 6:42 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] As usual, I have another brilliant solution!!!!


We all know the weather can wipe out any Bonneville event and we can't
do
anything about it. Currently the restrictive class rules require water
unfriendly wheels and tires on every vehicle. This eliminates running on
moist,  soft
tracks much less on standing water.

I have a "fool proof" solution to race under any weather conditions,
even
standing water!!!

Bear with me. Have you seen the ski's you can put on the front of
truck/car
tires to glide across snow?  For the rear they put track treads  like a
Snow
Cat would have to power it through snow. Salt looks and acts just  like
snow
right?

Bingo!

If we get watered out, we slap the ski's on the front and Snow Cat
tracks  on
the back!!! If the track is just mushy it would work great just like on

snow! If there is standing water on the course, the front ski's would
hydro  plane
and the rear tracks would paddle across the top of the water just  like
a
duck on takeoff!!! Think of the rooster tails!!! I can't wait to make
mine for
Ankle Biter!

I wonder if Snow Cat has 300 mph rated tracks??? Probably not. Wait! As
an
alternative to tracks, the rears could be equipped with ski's that have
little
Berkeley Jet drives on them!!! I'm Brilliant!

How about new class' for air boats??? Swamp buggies? Jet Ski's?

Otto

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007
5:46 PM

From vcviking at wildblue.net  Sat Aug  4 17:03:02 2007
From: vcviking at wildblue.net (MR VIKING)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 16:03:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The exact time we will know
Message-ID: <003401c7d6eb$a5062350$65cf2946@Dellie>

I have heard that up in Alaska that they have a contest where the folks pick
the exact time, to the second, that the ice in the river will break up. Maybe
next year we all should put a hunski and the one closest to the exact posting
time takes all the money.  At least during the wait, we could dream about what
we would spend all that cash on.    Jon Landen

From Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net  Sat Aug  4 17:05:45 2007
From: Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net (Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 23:05:45 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Hey Mayf
Message-ID: <080420072305.22571.46B506490004ECF50000582B22007456729C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>

It could be worse, you could be that Huntimer guy sitting on cartons of calenders just now.....

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sat Aug  4 17:08:43 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 16:08:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] As usual, I have another brilliant  solution!!!!
References: <d64.e2e595f.33e65ac9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c7d6ec$8d0f13f0$6401a8c0@S>

Otto--
I'm bringing my canoe.  It'll be there if you need re'skewing........
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Askotto at aol.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 3:42 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] As usual, I have another brilliant solution!!!!

> We all know the weather can wipe out any Bonneville event ............
> I have a "fool proof" solution to race under any weather conditions,  even
> standing water!!! .....................
> I wonder if Snow Cat has 300 mph rated tracks??? Probably not. Wait! As an
> alternative to tracks, the rears could be equipped with ski's that have
little
> Berkeley Jet drives on them!!! I'm Brilliant............  Otto

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Aug  4 17:36:45 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:36:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....
Message-ID: <46B50D8D.9050909@mayfco.com>

Just pulled this off of the site...
"

August 4, 2007

As of today at 3:00pm (PDT), there is standing water at the end of the 
road, and at the starting lines. There are also puddles on the courses. 
The SCTA/BNI board members are on their way to the salt and will be 
assessing the situation. Stay tuned for more details tomorrow (Sunday)."

Excuse me, but weren't the decision makers supposed to have been there 
at the salt making the decision?

 Maybe it will all work out....maybe...

mayf

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sat Aug  4 18:01:07 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 17:01:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
In-Reply-To: <46B4F79C.1010104@mayfco.com>
References: <46B4F79C.1010104@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20070805000138.4A831187CE8@autox.team.net>

Check the SCTA website.
Skip



At 03:03 PM 8/4/2007, drmayf wrote:
>Ok, so did the explorer party get lost on the way to the salt, lol?
>Having no clue as to what is involved in making a go/no go decision for
>the salt...why is it taking so long to wade out onto the lake, hmmm and
>haw a bit and flip a coin as to whether or not it will evaporate enough
>to start the meet on time... Some of my anxiety could be allievated by a
>description of the process involved in making such a large decision. I
>know that what ever it is, it wont be easy at all. But since I do not
>have that explanation, what the tarnation is taking so long...enquiring
>minds want to know, lol.
>
>mayf, way off and far out in pahrump...
>_______________________________________________

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sat Aug  4 18:03:40 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 17:03:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....
In-Reply-To: <46B50D8D.9050909@mayfco.com>
References: <46B50D8D.9050909@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20070805000401.3FC51187D91@autox.team.net>

As usual, I'm just a little late.........
Skip




At 04:36 PM 8/4/2007, drmayf wrote:
>Just pulled this off of the site...
>"
>
>August 4, 2007
>
>As of today at 3:00pm (PDT), there is standing water at the end of the
>road, and at the starting lines. There are also puddles on the courses.
>The SCTA/BNI board members are on their way to the salt and will be
>assessing the situation. Stay tuned for more details tomorrow (Sunday)."
>
>Excuse me, but weren't the decision makers supposed to have been there
>at the salt making the decision?
>
>  Maybe it will all work out....maybe...
>
>mayf
>_______________________________________________

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sat Aug  4 18:06:50 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:06:50 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
References: <46B4F79C.1010104@mayfco.com>
	<20070805000138.4A831187CE8@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <001001c7d6f4$85f6b250$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

This could be the way it used to be. You just knew nothing at all. Lots of 
phone calls. No information. No way to get information before all this 
computer stuff. You could just turn the computer off and show up next 
Saturday.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] The Waiting...


> Check the SCTA website.
> Skip
>
>
>
> At 03:03 PM 8/4/2007, drmayf wrote:
>>Ok, so did the explorer party get lost on the way to the salt, lol?
>>Having no clue as to what is involved in making a go/no go decision for
>>the salt...why is it taking so long to wade out onto the lake, hmmm and
>>haw a bit and flip a coin as to whether or not it will evaporate enough
>>to start the meet on time... Some of my anxiety could be allievated by a
>>description of the process involved in making such a large decision. I
>>know that what ever it is, it wont be easy at all. But since I do not
>>have that explanation, what the tarnation is taking so long...enquiring
>>minds want to know, lol.
>>
>>mayf, way off and far out in pahrump...
>>_______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> v4gr at rcn.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sat Aug  4 18:17:57 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:17:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....
References: <46B50D8D.9050909@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <002201c7d6f6$13df03f0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

I guess I don't understand your thinking. Haven't you ever went on the 
experience of others? At you, work did or do you make every decision 
yourself. (tab "a" in slot "b"...not to hard...I'll be back to watch the 
next one...now don't do anything unless I tell you...)

15 board members do not need to be standing at the end of the road, starting 
line, or on the course with tape measures at 7:00 am and again at 4:00 
pm...Very knowledgable people know how the salt resides and are not board 
members but are there for their expertise. One day earlier so YOU or WE can 
be IN THE KNOW is no big deal.

Let the ones who are doing it, do it and quit your whining. Everyone on the 
road is taking their chances and they know it. I'm leaving in 7 hours and 
I'm taking mine too. But I'm willing to wait until Monday or Tuesday to 
start. I'm sure I won't be drilling a thousand holes wareing hip boots; but 
I don't mind wet feet. Rain in August is NORMAL we loose days all the 
time.......JD
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....


> Just pulled this off of the site...

> Excuse me, but weren't the decision makers supposed to have been there
> at the salt making the decision?

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Aug  4 18:54:27 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 17:54:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
In-Reply-To: <001001c7d6f4$85f6b250$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
References: <46B4F79C.1010104@mayfco.com>
	<20070805000138.4A831187CE8@autox.team.net>
	<001001c7d6f4$85f6b250$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <46B51FC3.5020504@mayfco.com>

But, we do have all these wonderful communications tools at our 
disposal. Wouldn't it be great to use them? Yeah, I think so. And a 
dollar will get me a cuppa coffee...

mayf
Rich Fox wrote:

> This could be the way it used to be. You just knew nothing at all. 
> Lots of phone calls. No information. No way to get information before 
> all this computer stuff. You could just turn the computer off and show 
> up next Saturday.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Higginbotham" 
> <saltrat at pahrump.com>
> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 5:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
>
>
>> Check the SCTA website.
>> Skip
>>
>>
>>
>> At 03:03 PM 8/4/2007, drmayf wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, so did the explorer party get lost on the way to the salt, lol?
>>> Having no clue as to what is involved in making a go/no go decision for
>>> the salt...why is it taking so long to wade out onto the lake, hmmm and
>>> haw a bit and flip a coin as to whether or not it will evaporate enough
>>> to start the meet on time... Some of my anxiety could be allievated 
>>> by a
>>> description of the process involved in making such a large decision. I
>>> know that what ever it is, it wont be easy at all. But since I do not
>>> have that explanation, what the tarnation is taking so long...enquiring
>>> minds want to know, lol.
>>>
>>> mayf, way off and far out in pahrump...

From webmaster at landracing.com  Sat Aug  4 19:04:04 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 19:04:04 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
In-Reply-To: <46B51FC3.5020504@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAECEKEDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Im all about the coffee bit.... Cant keep enough in my system.... I am a
coffee nut, love coffee... Not a beer or alcohol drinker so that is my drink
of choice.... Was a Starbucks fanatic, I could call my Starbucks down the
street and tell them im running late and wouldnt make their closing time,
they would brew me two cups of coffee and put them in a small box outside
the door in a drink carrier and I would settle up with them the next day,
most times they wouldn't charge me, until they raised their coffee prices
again... There was a raise in prices in Ocotober last year, then recently
another one... They said because of the raise in dairy prices for milk...
Bullshit... My wifes parents recently closed their dairy, and whenever there
was an increase in dairy, they actually were paid the same or less for their
milk... Now I have banned starbucks, and McDonalds now brew a tasty cup of
coffee and that is my drink of choice, costs less and they are open 24
hours.

Jon


 Yeah, I think so. And a
dollar will get me a cuppa coffee...

mayf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Aug  4 19:11:08 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 18:11:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....
In-Reply-To: <002201c7d6f6$13df03f0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
References: <46B50D8D.9050909@mayfco.com>
	<002201c7d6f6$13df03f0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <46B523AC.8010506@mayfco.com>

Well, Jd, let me say...Blow it out your ass...

I was hoping for the sake of the bazillion folk who travel from far off 
places to have a bit of early warning to change directions. And that was 
what was promised. Decision on Saturday. So what changed? I understand 
the need to make the right decision. But you know this is a 175,000 
dollar effort under way here. 500 entries at 350 bucks each. That alone 
should cause management to step up the pace and get er done don't you 
think? And that does not include all the wasted fuel by folk traveling 
on a budget from who knows where.  So give it up and have the folks do 
the job promised. As to the experience of others why weren't they the 
one who went to look the situationover? Was there some question of water 
actually being on the salt that they sent someone to take a quick look? 
Then the "experience" can come up to verify that? In my line of 
business, I would have sent the right people up on a plane to look the 
situation over and then tell the rest of the management team what to do. 
As soon as people started showing concerns over the event actaulizing, 
management should have taken instant action to reassure those folk since 
they have already paid their money.

Some people have already lost the ability to cancel airline flights 
because of the delay in decision making. Will the SCTA step up to 
re-imbursement because of delayed information? Nah, I didn't think so. 
But a decision today would have made a difference.

Now you want to whine some?

mayf
J.D. Tone wrote:

> I guess I don't understand your thinking. Haven't you ever went on the 
> experience of others? At you, work did or do you make every decision 
> yourself. (tab "a" in slot "b"...not to hard...I'll be back to watch 
> the next one...now don't do anything unless I tell you...)
>
> 15 board members do not need to be standing at the end of the road, 
> starting line, or on the course with tape measures at 7:00 am and 
> again at 4:00 pm...Very knowledgable people know how the salt resides 
> and are not board members but are there for their expertise. One day 
> earlier so YOU or WE can be IN THE KNOW is no big deal.
>
> Let the ones who are doing it, do it and quit your whining. Everyone 
> on the road is taking their chances and they know it. I'm leaving in 7 
> hours and I'm taking mine too. But I'm willing to wait until Monday or 
> Tuesday to start. I'm sure I won't be drilling a thousand holes 
> wareing hip boots; but I don't mind wet feet. Rain in August is NORMAL 
> we loose days all the time.......JD
> Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....
>
>
>> Just pulled this off of the site...
>
>
>> Excuse me, but weren't the decision makers supposed to have been there
>> at the salt making the decision?

From mjb at autox.team.net  Sat Aug  4 19:24:34 2007
From: mjb at autox.team.net (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 19:24:34 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] [Fwd: Bonneville]
Message-ID: <46B526D2.30706@autox.team.net>

I'm assuming this fellow meant to send this message to
land-speed at autox.team.net and not just me.  I wish I
were heading out to the salt,  a quick jaunt for someone
who lives in Salt Lake City, but my travel plans are to
head back east, Indy oddly enough.  Shucks.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Bonneville
Date: 	Sat, 04 Aug 2007 21:12:52 -0400
From: 	joetimney <joetimney at dol.net>

	

	



I left Delaware at 3am this morning...west of Indy now! Come
on guys...let's go racing. It's 2300 miles for me, I'm
willing to gamble...you can too!

See you on the salt...stop talking about it...just leave!!!

joe

From Askotto at aol.com  Sat Aug  4 20:12:51 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:12:51 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] As usual, I have another brilliant  solution!!!!
Message-ID: <d52.ff623ee.33e68c23@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/4/2007 5:09:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
23.weldon at comcast.net writes:

Otto--
I'm bringing my canoe.  It'll be there if you need  re'skewing........
Ed Weldon





Hi Ed
 
Sweeeeet! I knew I could depend on you! 
 
What's a skewing and is it something "dirty"?
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Aug  4 20:51:39 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 20:51:39 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] As usual, I have another brilliant   solution!!!!
In-Reply-To: <d52.ff623ee.33e68c23@aol.com>
References: <d52.ff623ee.33e68c23@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b4c49f6d8d04960bbafadbe19f488b5d@comcast.net>

You'd be surprised at the oddball requests we get for 130 Club entries. 
  Otto's suggestion fits right in with the ones we turn down to protect 
the fragile salt surface.

Might work on a place like Black Rock.  Thy it when they have the 
"Burning Man" gathering.  Great stories about '49ers who left 
everything in the mud on that "dry" lake to rush to the Sierra's to 
pick gold up off the ground.  Other more practical types waited until 
the mud dried and hauled the abandoned gear on to the gold fields where 
they sold it to the same folks who had left it in the first place.

Wes

On Aug 4, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Askotto at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/4/2007 5:09:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> 23.weldon at comcast.net writes:
>
> Otto--
> I'm bringing my canoe.  It'll be there if you need  re'skewing........
> Ed Weldon
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ed
>
> Sweeeeet! I knew I could depend on you!
>
> What's a skewing and is it something "dirty"?
>
> Otto
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new 
> AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Aug  4 20:56:52 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 19:56:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr hot aug nights
Message-ID: <000801c7d70c$4703f6d0$9d01a8c0@Dale>

well we are out looking at cars today and the rest of the time until
speedweek.
dale
80 in Reno and 60+ at night

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Aug  4 21:00:43 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 21:00:43 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Hey Mayf
In-Reply-To: <080420072305.22571.46B506490004ECF50000582B22007456729C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
References: <080420072305.22571.46B506490004ECF50000582B22007456729C0B019D9B0108970D0D01BD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1dcd74d335f8c4a20e67588bfdfe7c15@comcast.net>

Will it cost Joe Timney or Keith Turk more for gas if they turn around 
tomorrow than Huntimer spent on his calendars?


On Aug 4, 2007, at 5:05 PM, Bobbyhotrods at comcast.net wrote:

> It could be worse, you could be that Huntimer guy sitting on cartons 
> of calenders just now.....
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sat Aug  4 21:06:04 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 20:06:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....
References: <46B50D8D.9050909@mayfco.com>
	<002201c7d6f6$13df03f0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<46B523AC.8010506@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c7d70d$900609d0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Nope. Sounds like you whined enough for all the entries to me......(minus 
mine of course).



> Well, Jd, let me say...Blow it out your ass...
> Now you want to whine some?

From jkamo at rushmore.com  Sat Aug  4 21:10:53 2007
From: jkamo at rushmore.com (jkamo)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 20:10:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
Message-ID: <46b53fbd.2a5.1c9b.1399226892@rushmore.com>

     Mayf...........hold on..........quick.......
 there is an "Official"   UPDATE........from
 SCTA website.....
 August 4, 2007, 8:55PM MT - SCTA Report.
 Salt is pretty wet, going to assess it tomorrow and compare
the  water level with today to determine the reality of
having an event.
  
  
 
----- Original Message Follows ----- 
From: drmayf  
To: Rich Fox  
Cc: LSR  
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] The Waiting... 
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 17:54:27 -0700 
 


>  But, we do have all these wonderful communications tools
>  at our  disposal. Wouldn't it be great to use them? Yeah,
>     I think so. And a  dollar will get me a cuppa
coffee...
>  
>  mayf
>  Rich Fox wrote:
>  
> >   This could be the way it used to be. You just knew
> >   nothing at all.  Lots of phone calls. No information.
No
> >   way to get information before  all this computer
stuff.
> >   You could just turn the computer off and show  up next
> >   Saturday. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip
> >    Higginbotham"  
> >   To: ; "LSR"
> >    Sent: Saturday, August 04,
>    >   2007 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [Land-speed] The
Waiting...
> >  
> >  
> >>   Check the SCTA website.
> >>   Skip
> >>  
> >>  
> >>  
> >>   At 03:03 PM 8/4/2007, drmayf wrote:
> >>  
> >>>   Ok, so did the explorer party get lost on the way to
>    the salt, lol? >>>  Having no clue as to what is
involved
> in making a go/no go decision for >>>  the salt...why is
it
> taking  so long to wade out onto the lake, hmmm and >>> 
haw
>  a bit and flip a coin as to whether or not it will
> evaporate     enough >>>  to start the meet on time...
Some of
> my anxiety could be allievated >>>   by a
> >>>   description of the process involved in making such a

From jdincau at qnet.com  Sat Aug  4 21:12:13 2007
From: jdincau at qnet.com (Jim Dincau)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 20:12:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....
References: <46B50D8D.9050909@mayfco.com><002201c7d6f6$13df03f0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf><46B523AC.8010506@mayfco.com>
	<002a01c7d70d$900609d0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <000f01c7d70e$6becbf20$0500000a@Den>

Amen JD.
Jim in Palmdale


> Nope. Sounds like you whined enough for all the entries to me......(minus
> mine of course).

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sat Aug  4 22:16:36 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 21:16:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Mother Nature
Message-ID: <8614156AFFDF4915BEDBE2F9BE6D6DFD@LMS>

In looking at the forecasts---the  best time to make OUR guess would prob. not
be until Mon. noon.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From ol38y at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 22:16:38 2007
From: ol38y at yahoo.com (Larry Cason)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 21:16:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision
Message-ID: <247997.17008.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have been reading this list for about a year and I find now I have to respond. I agree with you Mayf, YOU HAVE NO IDEA.The powers that be are doing everything they can to put on a race. You want a decision right now then I'll tell you. Just figure it's cancelled. If it was an easy decision they would have said so today. Obviousley it's not. It's borderline so they want to give it another day and see what the salt looks like. This is not a controlled environment as it seems you are acustomed to. It happens in every form of racing. As they say "+++ happens ". Like you, everyone else wants an answer. This is my first foray in LSR but not the first time I have had to wait on mother nature to find out if I get to race.  I can't wait to get on the salt and unlike some of you I will be going to the Bub meet as well. But, I don't want to wait untill then either. 
   
   So, thank you all for letting me vent...  I look forward to reading your posts for another year...    larry

From Flowbench at aol.com  Sat Aug  4 22:18:03 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 00:18:03 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....
Message-ID: <d17.130e5790.33e6a97b@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/4/2007 6:11:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
drmayf at mayfco.com writes:

But you  know this is a 175,000 
dollar effort under way here. 500 entries at 350  bucks each. That alone 
should cause management to step up the pace and get  er done don't you 
think?


Heard they moved the Space Shuttle launch back a day due to weather,  
humm.......



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From Flowbench at aol.com  Sat Aug  4 22:19:44 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 00:19:44 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision
Message-ID: <bfd.175d5ffb.33e6a9e0@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/4/2007 9:17:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
ol38y at yahoo.com writes:

I have  been reading this list for about a year and I find now I have to 
respond. I  agree with you Mayf, YOU HAVE NO IDEA.The powers that be are doing 
everything  they can to put on a race. You want a decision right now then I'll 
tell you.  Just figure it's cancelled. If it was an easy decision they would 
have said so  today. Obviousley it's not. It's borderline so they want to give it 
another  day and see what the salt looks like. This is not a controlled 
environment as  it seems you are acustomed to. It happens in every form of racing. 
As they say  "+++ happens ". Like you, everyone else wants an answer. This is 
my first  foray in LSR but not the first time I have had to wait on mother 
nature to  find out if I get to race.  I can't wait to get on the salt and unlike 
 some of you I will be going to the Bub meet as well. But, I don't want to 
wait  untill then either. 

So, thank you all for  letting me vent...  I look forward to reading your 
posts for another  year...    larry


Well said for a newbe...



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Aug  4 22:26:08 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 21:26:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision
References: <247997.17008.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c7d718$bf7325d0$9d01a8c0@Dale>

hey Larry I might be at the bub meet and world of speed if they are held, 
might not get home until end of sept
dale
rving in Reno looking at cars
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry Cason" <ol38y at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Land-speed] Decision


>I have been reading this list for about a year and I find now I have to 
>respond. I agree with you Mayf, YOU HAVE NO IDEA.The powers that be are 
>doing everything they can to put on a race. You want a decision right now 
>then I'll tell you. Just figure it's cancelled. If it was an easy decision 
>they would have said so today. Obviousley it's not. It's borderline so they 
>want to give it another day and see what the salt looks like. This is not a 
>controlled environment as it seems you are acustomed to. It happens in 
>every form of racing. As they say "+++ happens ". Like you, everyone else 
>wants an answer. This is my first foray in LSR but not the first time I 
>have had to wait on mother nature to find out if I get to race.  I can't 
>wait to get on the salt and unlike some of you I will be going to the Bub 
>meet as well. But, I don't want to wait untill then either.
>
>   So, thank you all for letting me vent...  I look forward to reading your 
> posts for another year...    larry

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Aug  4 22:26:48 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:26:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] TV weather
Message-ID: <140d9858dba367ed44e7c642472fcf3b@comcast.net>

Bright yellow on radar indicates some severe rainfall south of I-80 
near Wendover.  Light green color indicates possible light showers over 
the salt.  All this after the hottest July on record in SLC.

Wes

From jkamo at rushmore.com  Sat Aug  4 22:41:17 2007
From: jkamo at rushmore.com (jkamo)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 21:41:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision
Message-ID: <46b554ed.247.2e42.386342456@rushmore.com>

     Cason.........Mayf DOES have an idea........he has
 been going to Bonneville for MANY years...............
 There is a big difference between "getting to race".....
 and having a course good enough to go fast on.............
 AND yes Mayf.......is a GREAT guy as pretty much everyone
 we have ever met in LSR.....strong willed folks with lots
of passion....
 it shows in this very stressful period of preparation and 
anticipation.....
 Joe :) 
 
----- Original Message Follows ----- 
From: Larry Cason  
To: land-speed at autox.team.net 
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision 
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 21:16:38 -0700 (PDT) 
 


>  I have been reading this list for about a year and I find
>  now I have to respond. I agree with you Mayf, YOU HAVE NO
>  IDEA.The powers that be are doing everything they can to
>  put on a race. You want a decision right now then I'll
>  tell you. Just figure it's cancelled. If it was an easy
>  decision they would have said so today. Obviousley it's
>  not. It's borderline so they want to give it another day
>     and see what the salt looks like. This is not a
controlled
>  environment as it seems you are acustomed to. It happens
>  in every form of racing. As they say "+++ happens ". Like
>  you, everyone else wants an answer. This is my first
foray
>  in LSR but not the first time I have had to wait on
mother
>  nature to find out if I get to race.  I can't wait to get
>  on the salt and unlike some of you I will be going to the
>  Bub meet as well. But, I don't want to wait untill then
>  either. 
>     
>     So, thank you all for letting me vent...  I look
>  forward to reading your posts for another year...   
larry

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  5 00:30:37 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 23:30:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....
In-Reply-To: <002201c7d6f6$13df03f0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <458691.82920.qm@web52501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Call it "my bad"
   
  I'm with JD. We have sat out days, looked at Wendover property, etc.
   
  In the 70s, 80s, 90s those of us that are real salt rats would show up and either race or not. 
   
  There is a lot of experience on the lakebed right now. Let 'em figure out what is the best for everybody.
  DW

"J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net> wrote:
  I guess I don't understand your thinking. Haven't you ever went on the 
experience of others? At you, work did or do you make every decision 
yourself. (tab "a" in slot "b"...not to hard...I'll be back to watch the 
next one...now don't do anything unless I tell you...)

15 board members do not need to be standing at the end of the road, starting 
line, or on the course with tape measures at 7:00 am and again at 4:00 
pm...Very knowledgable people know how the salt resides and are not board 
members but are there for their expertise. One day earlier so YOU or WE can 
be IN THE KNOW is no big deal.

Let the ones who are doing it, do it and quit your whining. Everyone on the 
road is taking their chances and they know it. I'm leaving in 7 hours and 
I'm taking mine too. But I'm willing to wait until Monday or Tuesday to 
start. I'm sure I won't be drilling a thousand holes wareing hip boots; but 
I don't mind wet feet. Rain in August is NORMAL we loose days all the 
time.......JD
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....


> Just pulled this off of the site...

> Excuse me, but weren't the decision makers supposed to have been there
> at the salt making the decision?
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
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From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  5 00:57:20 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 23:57:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] TV weather
In-Reply-To: <140d9858dba367ed44e7c642472fcf3b@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <227234.3680.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Stop the madness!!!!!
   
  DW

Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net> wrote:
  Bright yellow on radar indicates some severe rainfall south of I-80 
near Wendover. Light green color indicates possible light showers over 
the salt. All this after the hottest July on record in SLC.

Wes
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
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From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Aug  5 06:41:53 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 05:41:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] San Jose - RSSMicro Search
Message-ID: <000501c7d75e$00d51250$9d01a8c0@Dale>

http://www.rssmicro.com:80/?f=0&st=San+Jose&fid=74044512

dale
more motorcyclesgoing to Bonneville,
dark and watching f-1 in Reno

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Sun Aug  5 07:17:26 2007
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 9:17:26 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
Message-ID: <14018492.1186319846053.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml20.mgt.cox.net>

Sounds an awful lot like any  good/bad/indifferent day in the army for, let's
say, the last 200 years or sob& Because of the potential for  last minute
work related travel, I  went for the  refundable tickets two months ago just
in case.
  The  Farmers Almanack and the USWS said it would probably be drier and
warmer than usual owing to a half degree increase in average temps.  My take
is that three virtually immutable  "laws"  come into play:   The first,
involving one or more laws of thermodynamics results in energy going somewhere
-  in this case, instead of water under the bridge, it's water on the salt
waiting to go under the bridge...  Caused, in part,  by the second law
(Murphy, et al) and more or less guaranteed by the third : the old Man plans,
God laughs..   That said,  I always thought that He was a fuel coupe kind of
guy whose only chuckling at this point...
   My prayers go out  for everyone  who has poured time, blood, sweat, tears,
bucks and heart into their cars,    that  the salt be flat,  the weather fair,
the courses safe, and that everybody  makes an ok pass.  Would a banner year
for hats and records be asking a bit  too much???
Mark C

---- Rich Fox <v4gr at rcn.com> wrote:
> This could be the way it used to be. You just knew nothing at all. Lots of
> phone calls. No information. No way to get information before all this
> computer stuff. You could just turn the computer off and show up next
> Saturday.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
> To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 5:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
>
>
> > Check the SCTA website.
> > Skip
> >
> >
> >
> > At 03:03 PM 8/4/2007, drmayf wrote:
> >>Ok, so did the explorer party get lost on the way to the salt, lol?
> >>Having no clue as to what is involved in making a go/no go decision for
> >>the salt...why is it taking so long to wade out onto the lake, hmmm and
> >>haw a bit and flip a coin as to whether or not it will evaporate enough
> >>to start the meet on time... Some of my anxiety could be allievated by a
> >>description of the process involved in making such a large decision. I
> >>know that what ever it is, it wont be easy at all. But since I do not
> >>have that explanation, what the tarnation is taking so long...enquiring
> >>minds want to know, lol.
> >>
> >>mayf, way off and far out in pahrump...
> >>_______________________________________________
> > _______________________________________________
> > v4gr at rcn.com
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> ifixmgs at cox.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Aug  5 08:02:05 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 07:02:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
In-Reply-To: <14018492.1186319846053.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml20.mgt.cox.n et>
References: <14018492.1186319846053.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml20.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20070805140218.67361187BFC@autox.team.net>

Yep Rich! If we want to race.....go to the salt.
If it is too wet when we get there, wait or go
back home. Not too complicated. The technology does help.
Thanks Mark,
Skip




At 06:17 AM 8/5/2007, ifixmgs at cox.net wrote:
>Sounds an awful lot like
>any  good/bad/indifferent day in the army for,
>let's say, the last 200 years or so Because of
>the potential for  lasst minute work related
>travel, I  went for the  refundable tickets two months ago just in case.
>   The  Farmers Almanack and the USWS said it
> would probably be drier and warmer than usual
> owing to a half degree increase in average
> temps.  My take is that three virtually
> immutable  "laws"  come into play:   The first,
> involving one or more laws of thermodynamics
> results in energy going somewhere -  in this
> case, instead of water under the bridge, it's
> water on the salt waiting to go under the
> bridge...  Caused, in part,  by the second law
> (Murphy, et al) and more or less guaranteed by
> the third : the old Man plans, God
> laughs..   That said,  I always thought that He
> was a fuel coupe kind of guy whose only chuckling at this point...
>    My prayers go out  for everyone  who has
> poured time, blood, sweat, tears, bucks and
> heart into their cars,    that  the salt be
> flat,  the weather fair, the courses safe, and
> that everybody  makes an ok pass.  Would a
> banner year for hats and records be asking a bit  too much???
>Mark C
>
>---- Rich Fox <v4gr at rcn.com> wrote:
> > This could be the way it used to be. You just knew nothing at all. Lots
of
> > phone calls. No information. No way to get information before all this
> > computer stuff. You could just turn the computer off and show up next
> > Saturday.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
> > To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 5:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] The Waiting...
> >
> >
> > > Check the SCTA website.
> > > Skip

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Aug  5 08:10:00 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 08:10:00 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ranting
Message-ID: <003601c7d76a$53438e70$6401a8c0@Glens>

All of the name calling and whining about the salt report does nothing to
help. The advance crew that go up early to evaluate the salt are VOLUNTEERS,
they work, they have a business, they need to take the time off to get to the
salt, look over thousands of acres of that flats to try to fine enough  area
to layout the courses, the pit area, the roads necessary to support the meet.

If they find we can pull it off you should thank them, not get pissed because
they wait an additional day to make the call. Remember this event takes around
three weeks to make happen that includes locating, surveying,putting down the
black lines, setting up all of the support equipment, laying miles of wire,
placing 1000s of cones etc. This takes time and people(volunteers) to make it
a reality. Then the meet is run and all of the tear down, cleaning of
equipment and storing of same taking the trailers back to California, cleaning
them and getting ready for a lake meet a few days later.

If it don't happen this year so be it, but don't belittle the volunteers that
make it happen on their own time.

Glen

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Aug  5 09:48:17 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:48:17 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] New news?
In-Reply-To: <14018492.1186319846053.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml20.mgt.cox.net>
References: <14018492.1186319846053.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml20.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20070805094817.9kh2idcq8sccw4s8@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

http://www.killacycle.com/

How many batteries to run three miles?

Belt sanders anyone?

Also, my  $.02 - maybe the press releases regarding salt conditions  
could be different?

back to the garage . . .

best wishes to all!

David in Durango (rains every day lately)

From adin at frontier.net  Sun Aug  5 09:48:27 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:48:27 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] New news?
In-Reply-To: <14018492.1186319846053.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml20.mgt.cox.net>
References: <14018492.1186319846053.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml20.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20070805094827.6vv9dtemuoocw8k8@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

http://www.killacycle.com/

How many batteries to run three miles?

Belt sanders anyone?

Also, my  $.02 - maybe the press releases regarding salt conditions  
could be different?

back to the garage . . .

best wishes to all!

David in Durango (rains every day lately)

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  5 10:47:50 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 16:47:50 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Ranting
In-Reply-To: <003601c7d76a$53438e70$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F3701B416C29F2D81F27DEFD9E40@phx.gbl>

      HOLD TH' PHONE !



   AMEN to Glen,  Dan W  JD and all the other wise and seasoned veterans...

  THEY know better than (almost) any because,   THEY   volunteered through 
the years

  EVERYONE needs to not only realize this -but to get down on your knees and 
thank them for their service to all racers, and ask forgiveness of them for 
all the bitching and whining.  None of them controls the weather for cryin' 
out loud.  I also seriously doubt anyone loves LSR more than they.

  God  I jus wish I could be on the way there  -rain OR no rain.

   Instead I'm stuck here in New Yawk -as usual.

  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -22 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway

   and  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
                     -but never more than a few feet from a cold one







From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Land-speed] Ranting
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 08:10:00 -0600

All of the name calling and whining about the salt report does nothing to
help. The advance crew that go up early to evaluate the salt are VOLUNTEERS,
they work, they have a business, they need to take the time off to get to 
the
salt, look over thousands of acres of that flats to try to fine enough  area
to layout the courses, the pit area, the roads necessary to support the 
meet.

If they find we can pull it off you should thank them, not get pissed 
because
they wait an additional day to make the call. Remember this event takes 
around
three weeks to make happen that includes locating, surveying,putting down 
the
black lines, setting up all of the support equipment, laying miles of wire,
placing 1000s of cones etc. This takes time and people(volunteers) to make 
it
a reality. Then the meet is run and all of the tear down, cleaning of
equipment and storing of same taking the trailers back to California, 
cleaning
them and getting ready for a lake meet a few days later.

If it don't happen this year so be it, but don't belittle the volunteers 
that
make it happen on their own time.

Glen

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route! 
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Aug  5 11:05:20 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 10:05:20 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] My Mistakes...
Message-ID: <46B60350.6080808@mayfco.com>

I am just up and have finished watching my Power Block car programs. I 
have not read the bazillion responses to the flames I sent out yesterday 
nor the replies to other rants started.

I just want to say I am sorry for attacking JD and for the bad language 
I used. I had an epiphany last night and this morning that said to me, 
you dumb a$$, you aint the spokeman for this group, stop this crap. So I 
will. I am going to delete all the messages and start over. If that 
doesn't work, then I will just lurk and speak when spoken to. That 
always works.

Again, let me appologize to all those that might have been offended by 
my outburst and bad language.  I will be quiet  from now on.

mayf

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Aug  5 11:14:44 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:14:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] My Mistakes...
In-Reply-To: <46B60350.6080808@mayfco.com>
References: <46B60350.6080808@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <BFF9B63D7E834EECA74C95710EFBC50A@LMS>

Mayf---Thanks for admitting  the come to Jesus meeting you must have had 
with your self----we are all at the MERCY of Mother Nature---and we all 
should know about HER at tthis stage of our lives!!!!!!!!!! hoping for Sun 
and HOT SW winds!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message -----  

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 11:17:11 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:17:11 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Ranting
Message-ID: <c99.1659dfec.33e76017@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/5/2007 8:12:46 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

If it  don't happen this year so be it, but don't belittle the volunteers  
that
make it happen on their own  time.

Glen





Hi Glen
 
Sooooo I heard the Bonneville "Volunteers" are reimbursed for travel, food,  
living expense, get a nice banquet and are paid money for  "volunteering", 
including you. Any truth to that?
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Aug  5 11:19:04 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 11:19:04 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ranting
References: <c99.1659dfec.33e76017@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c7d784$b9718cf0$6401a8c0@Glens>

OTTO
I get a room at the Econo lodge, a lunch ticket that most of the time is cold
before we can eat it.
Glen
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Askotto at aol.com
  To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
  Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 11:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ranting


  In a message dated 8/5/2007 8:12:46 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:
    If it don't happen this year so be it, but don't belittle the volunteers
that
    make it happen on their own time.

    Glen



  Hi Glen

  Sooooo I heard the Bonneville "Volunteers" are reimbursed for travel, food,
living expense, get a nice banquet and are paid money for "volunteering",
including you. Any truth to that?

  Otto





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
  Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 11:35:07 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:35:07 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Ranting
Message-ID: <c25.1d00edd4.33e7644b@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/5/2007 11:21:26 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

OTTO
I get a room at the Econo lodge, a lunch ticket  that most of the time is 
cold before we can eat it. 
Glen



 
 
Hi Glen
 
OK, so we covered living and eating expense even if it's cold when you eat  
it but you failed to answer the question, do the volunteers like you get paid. 
 
Just curious. Not that you don't deserve it but just want to set the  
"volunteer" record straight.
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Aug  5 11:54:40 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:54:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Vols.
Message-ID: <C83013E143C14823910F8418CCE23509@LMS>

ODD (        ) TOE

----man on man---
just be thankful that there MAY be a race----because with out them --paid or
unpaid,, and the ones who prceeded them---there wouldn't be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From zoombot at cox.net  Sun Aug  5 13:04:15 2007
From: zoombot at cox.net (Pile,Chris)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:04:15 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] The Wait
Message-ID: <000e01c7d793$6adfba80$29486644@HomePC>

    Otto -

    You might be a guy I would like if we ever met, but you don't when to keep
your piehole shut.

    Chris Pile aka aircap

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Aug  5 12:14:56 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:14:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Comment on the weather
Message-ID: <46B613A0.4030004@wildblue.net>

List,

The wind has been out of the EAST for the last 5-6 hours.
Not good.
A 10 MPH wind out of the west would  get rid of the water but
that wouldn't mean it would stay away.

I wouldn't make the decision today, way too many variables for me.

Bryan

From Saltrat at pahrump.com  Sun Aug  5 12:45:38 2007
From: Saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:45:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Loading New Trailer
Message-ID: <20070805184603.2116F1879F4@autox.team.net>

In the midst of all this dialogue, I must hold up for a minute and 
declare success!!! Following a restructure of the Beavertail  and 
raising the floor center 3 1/2 inches, I singlehandedly (well me and 
the new winch), (no not wench!) have loaded the 40 foot liner into 
the new trailer without incurring any damage.
The logic here is that even though when loading time at the salt 
comes around and 6 or 8 guys and gals appear out of nowhere to 
help.....it will be easier than it was with my old homemade trailer.
I am pleased with myself.......so is Joyce who doesn't have to push 
any more......actually she has to push less (-:(-:
Skip, only 96 here in Pahrump.

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Aug  5 13:36:04 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:36:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  Ranting
Message-ID: <009801c7d797$de7b6210$6401a8c0@S>

Forwarded to list......Please be patient with Otto.  He's like Mt. St.
Helens.  A natural disaster, full of boundless energy somewhat difficult to
harness; but scientifically interesting nontheless........
Ed
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: <Askotto at aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ranting


> Otto--
> If the perks sound good why not volunter to do refreshments next year?
> (we'll get you "re-skewed" one way or another...)
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <Askotto at aol.com>
> To: <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Ranting
>
> > Hi Glen
> > Sooooo I heard the Bonneville "Volunteers" are reimbursed for travel,
> food,
> > living expense, get a nice banquet and are paid money for
"volunteering",
> > including you. Any truth to that?
> > Otto

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Aug  5 14:19:34 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 14:19:34 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week is on
Message-ID: <009401c7d79d$f08b0b30$6401a8c0@Glens>

Just got off the phone with Mike Cook, the meet is on. It will be a two course
event due to the past rains.
See you on the salt.
Glen

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sun Aug  5 14:38:36 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 16:38:36 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week is on
In-Reply-To: <009401c7d79d$f08b0b30$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <000001c7d7a0$aefd8d20$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

But what is the track like?????
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Glen Barrett
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 4:20 PM
To: landspeed at autox.team.net
Cc: Jonathan Amo
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week is on


Just got off the phone with Mike Cook, the meet is on. It will be a two
course event due to the past rains. See you on the salt. Glen
_______________________________________________
ddahlgren at snet.net

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007
5:46 PM


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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007
5:46 PM

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Aug  5 14:40:35 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 14:40:35 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week is on
References: <000001c7d7a0$aefd8d20$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <00a401c7d7a0$e34bbfc0$6401a8c0@Glens>

All I can say is it's has some water  under the surface and dry on top. Lots 
of heat the coming week. I wont know any more until tomorrow or they post it 
on the SCTA web page. At least we will have a meet.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: "'Glen Barrett'" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>; "'landspeed at autox.team.net'" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Cc: "'Jonathan Amo'" <jonamo at landracing.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] speed week is on


But what is the track like?????
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Glen Barrett
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 4:20 PM
To: landspeed at autox.team.net
Cc: Jonathan Amo
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week is on


Just got off the phone with Mike Cook, the meet is on. It will be a two
course event due to the past rains. See you on the salt. Glen
_______________________________________________
ddahlgren at snet.net

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007
5:46 PM


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007
5:46 PM

From RACE427 at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 14:43:38 2007
From: RACE427 at aol.com (RACE427 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 16:43:38 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto !
Message-ID: <ce1.16e3fd9b.33e7907a@aol.com>

Dear List,

      Most of the time I just plain sand bag it here,  I read many of the 
messages that are posted.  I could never compete with you guys and gals who race. 
 Otto rules, he has the knowledge and the facts to back it up.  I do not know 
him personally but I wish I did !

       Otto reminds me of some of the toughest men I have worked under in my 
younger days.  I learned alot from those guys,  even though they were tough, 
they were fair and I knew exactly where I stood with them !!   They always 
taught this young whipper-snapper a thing or two.  LOL

        I enjoy what Otto writes and I never can disagree with him.
        Everyone be safe on the salt and good luck !!!!!


         Tony G    LI,NY


**************************************
 Get a sneak 
peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From jimwebb at nutsracing.com  Sun Aug  5 15:00:41 2007
From: jimwebb at nutsracing.com (Jim Webb)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 16:00:41 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week is on
In-Reply-To: <009401c7d79d$f08b0b30$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <20070805210119.A26AD187A15@autox.team.net>

Which course is not going to be used?

Jim Webb
Choc Full o' Nuts
A/PP B/PP ?/FL
 

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+jimwebb=nutsracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+jimwebb=nutsracing.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Glen Barrett
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 3:20 PM
To: landspeed at autox.team.net
Cc: Jonathan Amo
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week is on

Just got off the phone with Mike Cook, the meet is on. It will be a two
course
event due to the past rains.
See you on the salt.
Glen
_______________________________________________
jimwebb at nutsracing.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Aug  5 15:01:06 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 15:01:06 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week is on
References: <20070805210119.A26AD187A15@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <00b401c7d7a3$be58cc00$6401a8c0@Glens>

There will be a long and short course
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Webb" <jimwebb at nutsracing.com>
To: "'landspeed at autox.team.net'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] speed week is on


> Which course is not going to be used?
>
> Jim Webb
> Choc Full o' Nuts
> A/PP B/PP ?/FL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces+jimwebb=nutsracing.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+jimwebb=nutsracing.com at autox.team.net] On 
> Behalf
> Of Glen Barrett
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 3:20 PM
> To: landspeed at autox.team.net
> Cc: Jonathan Amo
> Subject: [Land-speed] speed week is on
>
> Just got off the phone with Mike Cook, the meet is on. It will be a two
> course
> event due to the past rains.
> See you on the salt.
> Glen
> _______________________________________________
> jimwebb at nutsracing.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Aug  5 15:56:34 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 14:56:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto !
References: <ce1.16e3fd9b.33e7907a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00ad01c7d7ab$7fd73c20$6401a8c0@S>

Otto is OK.  This year I'm actually going to try to shake his hand if I can
come anywhere near to to that blur that exists wherever he pits.
I can't say that I never disagree with him; but most of the time our
differences are on pretty trivial issues that I'm usually not inclined to
write about.
Howsomever........It's really fun to pull his chain!!  He leaves it hanging
out so far and it's so easy to grab......
Ed Weldon
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: RACE427 at aol.com
  To: 23.weldon at comcast.net ; land-speed at autox.team.net
  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 1:43 PM
  Subject: Otto !


  Dear List,
  ........  Otto rules, he has the knowledge and the facts to back it up.  I
do not know him personally but I wish I did ! ................I enjoy what
Otto writes and I never can disagree with him.
  Everyone be safe on the salt and good luck !!!!!     Tony G    LI,NY

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 16:44:12 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 18:44:12 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Vols.
Message-ID: <bba.1d5a03d8.33e7acbc@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/5/2007 11:54:56 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
sparky.2211 at cox.net writes:

ODD  (        ) TOE

----man on man---
just be  thankful that there MAY be a race----because with out them --paid  or
unpaid,, and the ones who prceeded them---there wouldn't  be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sparky
AA/_ L   2211




Hi Sparky
 
I have no problem at all with the volunteers "getting paid" like I said.  
They deserve a lot more than $35 a day for what they do for the sport. We all  
know it wouldn't happen without them. I have personally thanked many of them at  
the last SW for their efforts.
 
I just think calling them volunteers is a slight stretch when  they are 
actually paid employees.
 
And on the "man to man" deal, shouldn't that be "Toe to toe"? LOL
 
Otto



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From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 16:49:11 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 18:49:11 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Lets get Otto again.
Message-ID: <d66.10049494.33e7ade7@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/5/2007 12:04:28 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
zoombot at cox.net writes:

Otto  -

You might be a guy I would like if we ever met, but you  don't when to keep
your piehole shut.

Chris Pile aka  aircap





Hi Chris
 
All I did was ask a simple question about our "volunteers" getting paid.  
What's wrong with that? Why am I always "the bad guy" no matter what I do?
 
Otto




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From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 17:02:15 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:02:15 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto !
Message-ID: <d20.11d4538a.33e7b0f7@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/5/2007 2:44:00 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
RACE427 at aol.com writes:

Dear  List,

Most of the time I just plain sand bag it  here,  I read many of the 
messages that are posted.  I could  never compete with you guys and gals who 
race. 
Otto rules, he has the  knowledge and the facts to back it up.  I do not know 
him personally  but I wish I did !

Otto reminds me of some  of the toughest men I have worked under in my 
younger days.  I  learned alot from those guys,  even though they were tough, 
they were  fair and I knew exactly where I stood with them !!   They always  
taught this young whipper-snapper a thing or two.  LOL

I enjoy what Otto writes and I never can disagree with  him.
Everyone be safe on the salt and good luck  !!!!!


Tony G     LI,NY






Hi Tony
 
Did I read that right? You actually think there's hope for me? Are you  
crazy!? LOL
 
I'm glad you and a few others on the list see who I really am.
 
Thanks
 
Otto



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From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Aug  5 18:04:58 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 17:04:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Vols.
In-Reply-To: <bba.1d5a03d8.33e7acbc@aol.com>
References: <bba.1d5a03d8.33e7acbc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46B665AA.608@wildblue.net>

List,

In 1985 my son Larry, and I worked a 1200 to about 1800 shift at the 5.5 
on the long course.
We got some Water and a "box lunch". My son and I had a great time, it 
was his first time
on the salt as an adult. He was a fireman and knew exactly what to do 
AND what NOT to do.
If I didn't have salt fever, I wouldn't do it for less than $25 an hour 
and a case of COLD
Bud (back at the motel).
I've watched Glenn work as timer. Imagine you are driving a cab in NYC 
and trying to hang
wall paper during a hurricane --- at the same time.

Amazing!


Bryan

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 18:12:26 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:12:26 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto !
Message-ID: <c68.19687901.33e7c16a@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/5/07 7:02:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Askotto at aol.com 
writes:

Hi Tony

Did I read that right? You actually think there's hope for me? Are you  
crazy!? LOL

I'm glad you and a few others on the list see who I really am.

Thanks

Otto

Put me on the NMOBILH list. Bob in connecticut.........Never met Otto but I 
like him



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From Jimwprice at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 18:21:45 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:21:45 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto
Message-ID: <d4a.d7b5f9c.33e7c399@aol.com>

To really appreciate the many talents of Otto one should visit his spread  
near Albuquerque.   He is a hard core motorhead that can do  anything.   He 
keeps herd on a large group of animals, cars, boats and  too much more for me to 
remember.  He is on the same financial lease  similar to many of us but still 
keeps everything ship shape.   An  amazing man.



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From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Aug  5 18:41:50 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 18:41:50 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Ranting
In-Reply-To: <c25.1d00edd4.33e7644b@aol.com>
References: <c25.1d00edd4.33e7644b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a0b99d71ac890198f1aaba10904ec258@comcast.net>

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth!

I wrote a long explanation telling what our "volunteers" get for the 
time they spend on the salt then said *%#@ &!%# Otto and deleted it.

Otto, just be glad those "volunteers" are there because you would hate 
to take a day or so away from racing to do what they do for what they 
get.  You show up for inspection after most of the work has been done.  
When the meet is over for you you go home.  Those volunteers pick up 
the crap you and others leave behind in addition to all the 
infrastructure that has been installed over ten plus miles of salt.  We 
have done it in water up to five inches in depth on the course in a 
pouring rainstorm.  There's no pay for the equipment clean up over the 
rest of the year other than perhaps a lunch.  The term "labor of love" 
isn't too far off.

Wes

On Aug 5, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Askotto at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/5/2007 11:21:26 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:
>
> OTTO
> I get a room at the Econo lodge, a lunch ticket  that most of the time 
> is
> cold before we can eat it.
> Glen
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Glen
>
> OK, so we covered living and eating expense even if it's cold when you 
> eat
> it but you failed to answer the question, do the volunteers like you 
> get paid.
>
> Just curious. Not that you don't deserve it but just want to set the
> "volunteer" record straight.
> Otto
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new 
> AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Aug  5 19:50:04 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:50:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Ranting
In-Reply-To: <a0b99d71ac890198f1aaba10904ec258@comcast.net>
References: <c25.1d00edd4.33e7644b@aol.com>
	<a0b99d71ac890198f1aaba10904ec258@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46B67E4C.6080005@wildblue.net>

Right on Wes.

I have wondered for years how USFRA and BNI get all of those people
for what we called in the service, "The Sh&& Detail". I helped a guy roll
up wire after a USFRA Sept. meet in 1986. The sun feels 100 times hotter
when nothing else is going on to distract me. I never volunteered for that
again. It hurt.

Bryan



Wester Potter wrote:
> Don't look a gift horse in the mouth!
>
> I wrote a long explanation telling what our "volunteers" get for the 
> time they spend on the salt then said *%#@ &!%# Otto and deleted it.
>
> Otto, just be glad those "volunteers" are there because you would hate 
> to take a day or so away from racing to do what they do for what they 
> get.  You show up for inspection after most of the work has been done.  
> When the meet is over for you you go home.  Those volunteers pick up 
> the crap you and others leave behind in addition to all the 
> infrastructure that has been installed over ten plus miles of salt.  We 
> have done it in water up to five inches in depth on the course in a 
> pouring rainstorm.  There's no pay for the equipment clean up over the 
> rest of the year other than perhaps a lunch.  The term "labor of love" 
> isn't too far off.
>
> Wes

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Aug  5 19:55:56 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:55:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wrench
Message-ID: <46B67FAC.2040604@wildblue.net>

I can't remember where I got it, but I have a Proto, box/open end
--- now hey this -- 7/16 BS - 3/8 W ..??!!

Does anyone need/want it for their MG - TD/C..???

Bryan

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Aug  5 20:01:18 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:01:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week
Message-ID: <000801c7d7cd$add9fb40$6401a8c0@Glens>

Leaving for the salt in the morning for timing equipment set up. I will not be
on line until the meet is over and home. I figure setting in front of the
computer for a week of long days I won't want to see one at the motel. I will
be glad to see everyone at inspection and the bend in the road salt talks.
Have a safe trip. I will check the mail in the morning before I leave.
Glen

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 21:03:47 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:03:47 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto !
Message-ID: <cb0.1772fb76.33e7e993@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/5/2007 6:12:26 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, Want1937hd  
writes:

Put me on the NMOBILH list. Bob in connecticut.........Never met Otto but  I 
like him



 
Hi Bob
 
I stared at the NMOBILH trying to figure out what it stood for. I'm not hip  
on IM abbreviations except for LOL! I actually got the last 5 letters right  
except I thought the NM stood for New Mexico. Then I realized it stood for your 
 last sentence. LOL  I'm a little slow as you can tell....
 
Thanks Dude
 
Otto



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From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 21:16:03 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:16:03 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto
Message-ID: <cf4.121299be.33e7ec73@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/5/2007 6:21:55 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
Jimwprice at aol.com writes:

To  really appreciate the many talents of Otto one should visit his spread   
near Albuquerque.   He is a hard core motorhead that can  do  anything.   He 
keeps herd on a large group of animals,  cars, boats and  too much more for 
me to 
remember.  He is on the  same financial lease  similar to many of us but 
still 
keeps  everything ship shape.   An  amazing  man.




Hi Jim
 
Thanks dude! I knew I'd get some "brownie points" when I gave you batteries  
for your digital camera!!! LOL   We still have the "puppies" if you  want them!
 
Ok guys, what's going on? This much "pro Otto" stuff has got to stop! I'm  
beginning to feel like a "human being". QUIT! 
 
Where's Dahlgren when I need him!
 
Otto



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From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 21:33:17 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:33:17 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Ranting
Message-ID: <cc1.16b2b59f.33e7f07d@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/5/2007 6:41:58 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
wester6935 at comcast.net writes:

Don't  look a gift horse in the mouth!

I wrote a long explanation telling what  our "volunteers" get for the 
time they spend on the salt then said *%#@  &!%# Otto and deleted it.

Otto, just be glad those "volunteers" are  there because you would hate 
to take a day or so away from racing to do  what they do for what they 
get.  You show up for inspection after  most of the work has been done.  
When the meet is over for you you go  home.  Those volunteers pick up 
the crap you and others leave behind  in addition to all the 
infrastructure that has been installed over ten  plus miles of salt.  We 
have done it in water up to five inches in  depth on the course in a 
pouring rainstorm.  There's no pay for the  equipment clean up over the 
rest of the year other than perhaps a  lunch.  The term "labor of love" 
isn't too far  off.

Wes





Hi Wes
 
Obviously you TOTALLY missed the praise I gave the "volunteers", in  person 
to last years SW workers and in print for the work they do for LSR.  I even 
advocated they receive "pay" for their work and would give more if I was  holding 
the pen. So where's the beef with "*%#@ &!%#  Otto" ?
 
I would love to volunteer for SW as I'm not racing this year. I do lots of  
"real" volunteer work with the Community and the homeless so getting perks 
would  be a first! Where do I sign up?!!!
 
Otto



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From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Aug  5 22:16:19 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 21:16:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Vols.
In-Reply-To: <bba.1d5a03d8.33e7acbc@aol.com>
References: <bba.1d5a03d8.33e7acbc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <049270ED288B4DB09B7E34B2EF944301@LMS>

Otto---lol---I can't even spell----oh---it came out ON---lol---

OH by the way nobody has offered up the best perk of all---go up early and
help out ---sometimes just sometimes you can get your  inspected on
Thurs.----can't beat that with a big stick...
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Askotto at aol.com
  To: sparky.2211 at cox.net
  Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 3:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Vols.


  In a message dated 8/5/2007 11:54:56 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
sparky.2211 at cox.net writes:

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Aug  5 22:25:46 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 21:25:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week
In-Reply-To: <000801c7d7cd$add9fb40$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <000801c7d7cd$add9fb40$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <61540F9FDC4649D5BD0733726ACA4D0A@LMS>

Glen.  have a safe trip.  I hope to get a GOOD timing slip---will bring it 
out to get you tyo autograph it!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 7:01 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week


> Leaving for the salt in the morning for timing equipment set up. I will 
> not be

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  5 22:30:30 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 04:30:30 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] speed week is ON !
In-Reply-To: <61540F9FDC4649D5BD0733726ACA4D0A@LMS>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F337655731FCF2073E98A02D9E50@phx.gbl>

   Glen, Sparky, Tom Bryant,

-and everyone:     go FAST     go Straight     and have a ball

   tell us all about it later  K?






  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one

  -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,
                            Cold Beer, Fast Cars, an' Warm Willin' Wimin'

  Speedway Bikes, Harley D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
    Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,
      Aerial Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,

        -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they are



From: "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>, 
"landspeed at autox.team.net"<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] speed week
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 21:25:46 -0700

Glen.  have a safe trip.  I hope to get a GOOD timing slip---will bring it
out to get you to autograph it!

       Sparky
AA/_ L  2211


----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>


 > Leaving for the salt in the morning for timing equipment set up. I will 
not be online

_________________________________________________________________
A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. 
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Mon Aug  6 06:49:13 2007
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 07:49:13 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Vols.
In-Reply-To: <bba.1d5a03d8.33e7acbc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB208C7A7E4@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

"I just think calling them volunteers is a slight stretch when  they are
actually paid employees"



Well, IMHO the people are Volunteers, No one forced them into the job.
The SCTA-BNI shows it's appreciation for their efforts by providing them
with a per deim to offset the costs incurred while performing their
duties. Having been a volunteer, I assure you, the cost to volunteer is
far in excess of any remuneration from the organization.

Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Mon Aug  6 06:57:03 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:57:03 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto !
Message-ID: <c3b.18935700.33e8749f@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/5/07 11:03:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Askotto writes:

 
Hi Bob
 
I stared at the NMOBILH trying to figure out what it stood for. I'm not hip 
on IM abbreviations except for LOL! I actually got the last 5 letters right 
except I thought the NM stood for New Mexico. Then I realized it stood for your 
last sentence. LOL  I'm a little slow as you can tell....
 
Thanks Dude
 
Otto


BS!!!! Have fun go fast and get yourself a red hat! Bob in connecticut



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From Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com  Mon Aug  6 07:28:08 2007
From: Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com (Clay, Dale)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 06:28:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 99 miles?
In-Reply-To: <615593.6755.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <72385d6f93b0a076bc7e7382b35fcbad@comcast.net>
	<615593.6755.qm@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA066@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>

You could be a redneck if the directions to your house begins "When ya
leave the black top ..."  LOL

Dale C.


Subject: [Land-speed] 99 miles?

99 miles from the Bonneville Salt Flats and 21 miles from your driveway?
? ? ?  Wes, that is absolutely disgusting! ! !  I have to drive 21 miles
just to reach the first paved road, and if I drive 99 miles I'm still in
the same county! ! !     :)

  DickJ
  In East Texas


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From saltrat at pahrump.com  Mon Aug  6 07:33:21 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 06:33:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Wrench
In-Reply-To: <46B67FAC.2040604@wildblue.net>
References: <46B67FAC.2040604@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <20070806133340.94551187A0B@autox.team.net>

Bryan,
7/16 British Standard and 3/8 Whitworth. I had a complete set of BS 
wrenches for the Roll engine in the Miss America P-51.
Skip




At 06:55 PM 8/5/2007, Bryan Savage wrote:
>I can't remember where I got it, but I have a Proto, box/open end
>--- now hey this -- 7/16 BS - 3/8 W ..??!!
>
>Does anyone need/want it for their MG - TD/C..???
>
>Bryan
>_______________________________________________
>saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From websters at pyramid.net  Mon Aug  6 07:39:51 2007
From: websters at pyramid.net (Dan)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 06:39:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] (no subject)
Message-ID: <001c01c7d82f$43a9c310$6401a8c0@gateway>

Good Morning all,

To all that are going to the Salt, have a great and safe trip and break a lot
of records.  Take Care  Dan Webster  # 313 Carson City, NV

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Aug  6 07:45:16 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 06:45:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SW worries--ECU not Found
Message-ID: <1EFDF2EC1F2A404FB52DD10CA3C7B610@LMS>

The ECU's bad connection is rearing it UGLY head again---"ECU not found"---I
swear I am begining to ENVY and ADMIRE cars like JD's---magnetos---with a kill
switch---high gear only---push off, engage clutch to pre lube switch on to
fire and run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whooeee---KISS---

PS    this comes from someone who is considering having a back carb or mech.
FI system!!!!!!!!!!!

      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Mon Aug  6 07:54:47 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 09:54:47 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] SW worries--ECU not Found
In-Reply-To: <1EFDF2EC1F2A404FB52DD10CA3C7B610@LMS>
Message-ID: <005701c7d831$653d45e0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Sparky you have a bad harness you sent me the system a long time ago and
told you that then. It is not going to heal up... Rust and corrosion
never sleep and it has been getting worse not better since then. My
personal bet is all the ground wires are corroded and black if you pull
the insulation off them.. I have raced EFI out there for ages and never
haed an issue with any of my stuff but also willing to spend what it
takes for that to happen wiring wise. You need either tin or silver
coated copper with tefzel insulation.. Covered by raychem dr-25.. And a
pile of money to pay for it all. A typical harness is around 1800.. But
so is a carb nowadays..

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Sparky
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:45 AM
To: AA List
Subject: [Land-speed] SW worries--ECU not Found


The ECU's bad connection is rearing it UGLY head again---"ECU not
found"---I swear I am begining to ENVY and ADMIRE cars like
JD's---magnetos---with a kill switch---high gear only---push off, engage
clutch to pre lube switch on to fire and run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
whooeee---KISS---

PS    this comes from someone who is considering having a back carb or
mech.
FI system!!!!!!!!!!!

      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
_______________________________________________
ddahlgren at snet.net

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007
5:46 PM


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007
5:46 PM

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Mon Aug  6 07:55:23 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 09:55:23 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] SW worries--ECU not Found
In-Reply-To: <1EFDF2EC1F2A404FB52DD10CA3C7B610@LMS>
Message-ID: <005801c7d831$795af630$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Sparky you have a bad harness you sent me the system a long time ago and
told you that then. It is not going to heal up... Rust and corrosion
never sleep and it has been getting worse not better since then. My
personal bet is all the ground wires are corroded and black if you pull
the insulation off them.. I have raced EFI out there for ages and never
haed an issue with any of my stuff but also willing to spend what it
takes for that to happen wiring wise. You need either tin or silver
coated copper with tefzel insulation.. Covered by raychem dr-25.. And a
pile of money to pay for it all. A typical harness is around 1800.. But
so is a carb nowadays..

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Sparky
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:45 AM
To: AA List
Subject: [Land-speed] SW worries--ECU not Found


The ECU's bad connection is rearing it UGLY head again---"ECU not
found"---I swear I am begining to ENVY and ADMIRE cars like
JD's---magnetos---with a kill switch---high gear only---push off, engage
clutch to pre lube switch on to fire and run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
whooeee---KISS---

PS    this comes from someone who is considering having a back carb or
mech.
FI system!!!!!!!!!!!

      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com  Mon Aug  6 08:21:20 2007
From: Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com (Clay, Dale)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 07:21:20 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] My Mistakes...
In-Reply-To: <46B60350.6080808@mayfco.com>
References: <46B60350.6080808@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA067@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>

Mayf, that is a man-up thing to do!  Don't go silent on us.

Dale C.


Again, let me appologize to all those that might have been offended by
my outburst and bad language.  I will be quiet  from now on.

mayf
_______________________________________________

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient or employees of MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited.   If
you received this in error, pleasecontact the sender by email and delete the
material from any computer.

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Mon Aug  6 09:13:55 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 08:13:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Vols.
In-Reply-To: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB208C7A7E4@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB208C7A7E4@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <46B73AB3.2010502@wildblue.net>

The Volunteers are not paid employees. If they were, BNI would need
a payroll department and be required to make deductions from their pay.
By paying Per Diem they can reimburse them for "out of pocket expenses"
that they would not have if working from home. The maximum is controlled
by the IRS and is calculated to pay a reasonable and customary amount for
breakfast, dinner (not lunch) , laundry and lodging. It is not taxable 
income
so you don't need a payroll department to deal with the IRS.
It does NOT pay for the work they do. And yes, the IRS does keep an eye
on this and it varies by location.
The current rate for Salt Lake City is $132 .00, first and last day - 
$40.50.
No on-line data for Wendover. Call the IRS in SLC if you must know.
Remember, their room comes out of that.

Bryan

STOP!!! this reminds me of work.....

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Aug  6 09:41:30 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:41:30 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Decision....
References: <46B50D8D.9050909@mayfco.com>
	<002201c7d6f6$13df03f0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <46B7412A.000001.03636@TOM>

Hello to All,

You don't have to have been around the salt as long as I have to understand
that very few weeks are seven days of competition. My first record was set
in 1965 when we didn't turn a wheel until Thursday. We did a variety of
things to pass the time in town from playing Volley Ball  to Jacks, but we
stayed until the salt was ready. Again, in 1992, we didn't run until
Wednesday or Thursday.  Another year we arrived and set up our pits to have
it flooded for a couple of days before we could get back on the salt.

Making the decision to run or not is a tough call, but I rely on those in
charge to make the right decision.

God willing, I will see you a the salt in a few days.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC (the car is in the trailer and I plan to head
Eastward Wednesday. )

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From jimwebb at nutsracing.com  Mon Aug  6 12:31:55 2007
From: jimwebb at nutsracing.com (Jim Webb)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 13:31:55 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Pre-Entry For Sale
Message-ID: <20070806183236.53AA4187A08@autox.team.net>

Sadly, we've decided to not make the trip to SpeedWeek this year. A lot of
factors are involved in that decision including the price of diesel and the
fact that I've got a borrowed engine that I'm not really prepared to buy.
Still, this wasn't an easy decision to make. I applaud the efforts of SCTA
to make the event happen and would dearly love to be there.

 

So, I have a pre-entry for sale at face value or reasonable offer. 

 

Jim Webb

Choc Full o' Nuts

A/PP B/PP ?/FL

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Aug  6 15:32:41 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:32:41 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR--A BARN FULL
Message-ID: <001001c7d871$57dc54f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

A NY man retired. He wanted to use his retirement money wisely, so it would
last, and decided to buy a home and a few acres in Portugal.
            The modest farmhouse had been vacant for 15yrs.; the owner and
wife both had died, and there were no heirs. The house was sold to pay taxes.
There had been several lookers, but the large barn had steel doors, and they
had been welded shut. Nobody wanted to go to the extra expense to see what was
in the barn, and it wasn't complimentary to the property anyway......so,
nobody made an offer on the place.
            The NY guy bought it at just over half of the property's worth,
moved in, and set about to tear in to the barn.......curiosity was killing
him.
            So, he and his wife bought a generator, and a couple of
grinders.......and cut thru the welds. What was in the barn...............?

            Go to; www.intuh.net/barnfinds/afa70.htm and start wishing it you
had bought the place.

            Click on the index for a faster download


--------------------------------------------------------------------

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Mon Aug  6 15:34:37 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:34:37 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR--A BARN FULL
Message-ID: <cab.176865cc.33e8eded@aol.com>

_http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/31/portuguese-barn-find-hoax-still-going-stro
ng/_ 
(http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/31/portuguese-barn-find-hoax-still-going-strong/) 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Aug  6 16:33:22 2007
From: jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net (John Thornton)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 16:33:22 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR--A BARN FULL
In-Reply-To: <001001c7d871$57dc54f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
References: <001001c7d871$57dc54f0$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <46B7A1B2.9060102@sbcglobal.net>

joseph lance wrote:
> A NY man retired. He wanted to use his retirement money wisely, so it would
> last, and decided to buy a home and a few acres in Portugal.
>             The modest farmhouse had been vacant for 15yrs.; the owner and
> wife both had died, and there were no heirs. The house was sold to pay taxes.
> There had been several lookers, but the large barn had steel doors, and they
> had been welded shut. Nobody wanted to go to the extra expense to see what was
> in the barn, and it wasn't complimentary to the property anyway......so,
> nobody made an offer on the place.
>             The NY guy bought it at just over half of the property's worth,
> moved in, and set about to tear in to the barn.......curiosity was killing
> him.
>             So, he and his wife bought a generator, and a couple of
> grinders.......and cut thru the welds. What was in the barn...............?

The magazine Sports Car Market apparently wrote a story about this 
"find" recently.
It isn't a find at all.
The cars have been in the same owners hands for years and the photos 
were recently taken by a photographer hired by him.
Really, who wouldn't look in a building like this before listing a 
property for sale these days?

John Thornton

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Aug  6 15:50:32 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 14:50:32 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR
Message-ID: <0E6837207F934B9DB79A0290F15C9DFC@LMS>

  I have a Toshiba notebook that has windows 98 in it---I was trying to clean
it up by deleteing a bunch of my daughters left over stuff---it now goes into
a loop of opening screen  "Tosh9iba, Windows 98 then does a partial evaluation
----all of this for a few times then peremantely to Windos 98 image----does
not respond to any thing but on-off seitch------HELP---I would like to make
this thing my ECU computer--
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From karhu at california.com  Mon Aug  6 17:04:37 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 16:04:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonus Edition of Bonneville: Wide Open
Message-ID: <000801c7d87e$29b5aec0$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

Hi gang,

Just wanted you to know that weve finally produced a bonus-tracks version of
our award-winning documentary Bonneville: Wide Open, with almost double the
footage of the original DVD. The bonus footage includes extended interviews,
out-takes, a couple of complete on-board-camera runs of Bob Lindstroms
roadster (and Ron Tezinskys colorful post-run comments), discussions of
driving issues, and some fun Bville stories to round it out.

In conjunction with the new edition we finally bit the bullet and paid for a
zillion professionally produced and manufactured DVDs with full-size case and
color cover.  The film itself also benefitted from the new edition, and
besides technical tuneups and improvements, now has an access menu and
chapterizing so you can go directly to the parts you want to replay.

We are holding the line on the price at only $25 per copy (postpaid in the
USA; $27.19 in CA).  So, if youd like more Bonneville insights and
entertainment, go to www.bonnevillewideopen.com and hit the ol BuyNow button.
As you might imagine, Ill also have a few copies at Speed Week (look for the
bearded geezer in the Bonneville: Wide Open T-shirt and silly desert hat or
leave a note on my dark-blue-with-white-roof "aErostar"). If youve already
bought the original version, may we humbly suggest you pass it along to a
friend (or maybe you can get a tax deduction if you give it to your local
library). Then get the bonus edition for yourself!

Benn of the Shameless Pitch

From clab at bellsouth.net  Mon Aug  6 23:26:27 2007
From: clab at bellsouth.net (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 01:26:27 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto
In-Reply-To: <cf4.121299be.33e7ec73@aol.com>
References: <cf4.121299be.33e7ec73@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46B80283.5040502@bellsouth.net>

And don't forget Otto's collection of engines, WOW!
Woops, I forgot, I'm a lurker, I'll just slip back into the shadows.......
chad

Askotto at aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 8/5/2007 6:21:55 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
>Jimwprice at aol.com writes:
>
>To  really appreciate the many talents of Otto one should visit his spread   
>near Albuquerque.   He is a hard core motorhead that can  do  anything.   He 
>keeps herd on a large group of animals,  cars, boats and  too much more for 
>me to 
>remember.  He is on the  same financial lease  similar to many of us but 
>still 
>keeps  everything ship shape.   An  amazing  man.
>
>
>
>
>Hi Jim
> 
>Thanks dude! I knew I'd get some "brownie points" when I gave you batteries  
>for your digital camera!!! LOL   We still have the "puppies" if you  want them!
> 
>Ok guys, what's going on? This much "pro Otto" stuff has got to stop! I'm  
>beginning to feel like a "human being". QUIT! 
> 
>Where's Dahlgren when I need him!
> 
>Otto

From Askotto at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 00:56:55 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 02:56:55 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto
Message-ID: <c8b.11ded4fe.33e971b7@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/6/2007 11:26:50 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
clab at bellsouth.net writes:

And  don't forget Otto's collection of engines, WOW!
Woops, I forgot, I'm a  lurker, I'll just slip back into the  shadows.......
chad





Hi Chad
 
You know what they say, "A guy can't have too many engines!"
 
You can blame David Freiburger for my collection!!! He validated it was OK  
to have 20 or 30 project cars sitting around. You need cool engines for all  
these projects right? Cool parts to go on these cool engines? The rest is  
history...
 
He and Steve Magnante, Terry McGean and Hot Rod TV producer Kevin Oeste  came 
on my live TV show, "Ask Otto" when they were in town for 2002 Power  Tour. 
David and I were comparing notes on our obsession to collect cars and  parts. 
We both will never have time to complete all of them even though we buy  them 
in earnest to build them into some weird and amusing hot rod. It's a  motor 
head sickness there is no cure for.
 
Come to think of it, when David came on the live set he fell over  backwards 
when he sat in the car bucket seats I have. His feet shot straight up  and all 
you could see was the bottom of his sandels! Oeste even ran the clip on  Hot 
Rod TV when they introduced David as the new Editor in Chief for Hot Rod  
"going head over heals" about his new job! He even "highlighted" it in Hot Rod  
Magazine as a Power Tour first, "Editor falls on ass on live TV!"
 
It was great meeting you guys!!! I haven't done anything on Ankle  Biter 
since you helped me pull the SB2.2. Want me to next day air some Sadies  grub? LOL
 
You gonna run Maxton this year?
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Tue Aug  7 01:43:19 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 00:43:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR
In-Reply-To: <0E6837207F934B9DB79A0290F15C9DFC@LMS>
References: <0E6837207F934B9DB79A0290F15C9DFC@LMS>
Message-ID: <89568FBB-E3B2-4ADD-8A7D-ABFF75DF0437@gmail.com>

You have a restore CD? You might need to (and I would) get a copy of  
windows 98 (hopefully you have CDs that came with laptop?) and do a  
complete fresh install... If you're using for your ECU only, you  
won't need any extra software on it, and can make the system much  
more reliable by doing a fresh load.


On Aug 6, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Sparky wrote:

>   I have a Toshiba notebook that has windows 98 in it---I was  
> trying to clean
> it up by deleteing a bunch of my daughters left over stuff---it now  
> goes into
> a loop of opening screen  "Tosh9iba, Windows 98 then does a partial  
> evaluation
> ----all of this for a few times then peremantely to Windos 98  
> image----does
> not respond to any thing but on-off seitch------HELP---I would like  
> to make
> this thing my ECU computer--
>       Sparky
> AA/_ L  2211
> _______________________________________________
> jon.the.wise at gmail.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Tue Aug  7 03:14:35 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 02:14:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR
In-Reply-To: <0E6837207F934B9DB79A0290F15C9DFC@LMS>
References: <0E6837207F934B9DB79A0290F15C9DFC@LMS>
Message-ID: <46B837FB.8090400@wildblue.net>

If you have the Win 98 CD that came with it, change the BIOS to boot
from the CD and reinstall 98.

Bryan

I would buy XP home edition, reformat the drive and install XP.
Actually I'd install XP Pro. but the home edition is OK. About
10-20 times better than 98. Do not get Vista until Service Pack 2
is available.

Sparky wrote:
>   I have a Toshiba notebook that has windows 98 in it---I was trying to clean
> it up by deleteing a bunch of my daughters left over stuff---it now goes into
> a loop of opening screen  "Tosh9iba, Windows 98 then does a partial evaluation
> ----all of this for a few times then peremantely to Windos 98 image----does
> not respond to any thing but on-off seitch------HELP---I would like to make
> this thing my ECU computer--
>       Sparky
> AA/_ L  2211

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Aug  7 03:23:08 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 05:23:08 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR
In-Reply-To: <46B837FB.8090400@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <00d501c7d8d4$92097c30$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

For what he needs to do win 98 is much better actually ms dos 6.22 is
the winner LOL the engine control progam is dos based so getting as
close to msdos as you can is best..all of windows 'features' just get in
the way.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Bryan Savage
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 5:15 AM
To: Sparky; List Land Speed
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR


If you have the Win 98 CD that came with it, change the BIOS to boot
from the CD and reinstall 98.

Bryan

I would buy XP home edition, reformat the drive and install XP. Actually
I'd install XP Pro. but the home edition is OK. About 10-20 times better
than 98. Do not get Vista until Service Pack 2 is available.

Sparky wrote:
>   I have a Toshiba notebook that has windows 98 in it---I was trying
> to clean it up by deleteing a bunch of my daughters left over
> stuff---it now goes into a loop of opening screen  "Tosh9iba, Windows
> 98 then does a partial evaluation ----all of this for a few times then

> peremantely to Windos 98 image----does not respond to any thing but
> on-off seitch------HELP---I would like to make this thing my ECU
computer--
>       Sparky
> AA/_ L  2211

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007
5:46 PM

From john.szalay at att.net  Tue Aug  7 07:34:35 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:34:35 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Barn finds
Message-ID: <080720071334.18928.46B874EB00050F42000049F02160280741970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

Makes for a good story, and its been around on the net for a while BUT
still a good collection.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/automobiles/barnfind.asp

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "joseph lance" <jolylance at earthlink.net>
>
> A NY man retired. He wanted to use his retirement money wisely, so it would
> last, and decided to buy a home and a few acres in Portugal.
>             The modest farmhouse had been vacant for 15yrs.; the owner and

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 09:48:33 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:48:33 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto
Message-ID: <c99.1685a353.33e9ee51@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/7/07 1:27:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
clab at bellsouth.net writes:

And don't forget Otto's collection of engines, WOW!
Woops, I forgot, I'm a lurker, I'll just slip back into the shadows.......
chad

They just showed an original Otto four stroke engine on the History Channel 
last night, that is one engine he needs to have. Guy from MIT claimed that was 
the start of the Ottomobile industry. Bob in connectricut. 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From BWANA343 at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 10:25:51 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:25:51 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto/non lsr
Message-ID: <bc2.13e5098c.33e9f70f@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/7/2007 1:27:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
clab at bellsouth.net writes:

And  don't forget Otto's collection of engines, WOW!
Woops, I forgot, I'm a  lurker, I'll just slip back into the  shadows.......
chad


Chads don't slip, they drop, We learned that in the last election.....  
ouch...
step up one time and they make fun of your name,every time...
Where's that Bonneville Web Cam ?
Bob W



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From zoombot at cox.net  Tue Aug  7 11:40:52 2007
From: zoombot at cox.net (Pile,Chris)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:40:52 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Portugal Barn Find
Message-ID: <007201c7d91a$1a1947f0$29486644@HomePC>

    List -

    I thought perhaps that this Land Speed List would be immune from that
wretched "urban legend", but I see it's now wormed it's way on here. This
bogus story is at least 5 years old by now, and has been posted almost monthly
on the 10 or so automotive forums I log onto daily. Also - nearly every
"friend of a friend" excitedly sends me the link because they've heard that I
"like cars" - and are always surprised when I send them the same answer.....

    IF IT SEEMS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE - IT PROBABLY IS!

    - Chris Pile aka aircap

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 10:48:08 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:48:08 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Portugal Barn Find
Message-ID: <d18.113f6cfd.33e9fc48@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/7/2007 12:41:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
zoombot at cox.net writes:

IF IT  SEEMS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE - IT PROBABLY IS!


Zactly, shows to go ya how many suckers there are out there. I'm like a  
cyber myth buster in my exposing stuff, mostly via Snopes.com. Amazing how many  
people email me telling me I'm like a party pooper by finding the truth. I 
think  I'm going to start bottling dehydrated water and selling it online....
Bob , PT Barnum, W



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From jolylance at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  7 11:51:54 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 13:51:54 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Portugal Barn Find
References: <d18.113f6cfd.33e9fc48@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000301c7d91b$aa1ed440$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Great idea---and dehydration should get rid of that dangerous hydrogen 
dioxide stuff.

----- Original Message ----- >

>  .............I  think  I'm going to start bottling dehydrated water and 
> selling it online....
> Bob , PT Barnum, W

From karhu at california.com  Tue Aug  7 12:44:12 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:44:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Portugal Barn Find
References: <d18.113f6cfd.33e9fc48@aol.com>
	<000301c7d91b$aa1ed440$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <004f01c7d922$f33c9de0$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

Uh, wouldn't that be Di-hydrogen oxide?
Benn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joseph lance" <jolylance at earthlink.net>
To: <BWANA343 at aol.com>; <zoombot at cox.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Portugal Barn Find


> Great idea---and dehydration should get rid of that dangerous hydrogen
> dioxide stuff.

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 13:23:10 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:23:10 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Scam of the Week
Message-ID: <c20.1bc7dcc2.33ea209e@aol.com>

I was discussing a recent car sale with a pal works for a brokerage outfit  
today who inquired how I accepted payment. When I replied we did it through  
Ebay's Paypal, he said that was fortunate as the latest ruse is fake cashiers or 
 bank checks. You take your authentic looking check to your bank, deposit it  
against your account, and when it gets through the process a few days later 
your  car/boat/bike is gone and  you are scrood. Obviously being the cynic I am 
 I'd have the bank authenticate the check before I'd make the property 
exchange,  but there are lots of people that would take the check, especially if 
they think  they really did well on the sale.
My point is I called my bank just now and they confirmed it is a rapidly  
growing scam and recommended spreading the info to everybody...caveat  emptor...
Bob W



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From clab at bellsouth.net  Tue Aug  7 15:05:07 2007
From: clab at bellsouth.net (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:05:07 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto/non lsr
In-Reply-To: <bc2.13e5098c.33e9f70f@aol.com>
References: <bc2.13e5098c.33e9f70f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46B8DE83.6080504@bellsouth.net>

BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:

>
> Chads don't slip, they drop, We learned that in the last election..... 
> ouch...

And, I from Florida.....................
chad


> Bob W
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com 
> <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>.

From clab at bellsouth.net  Tue Aug  7 15:07:45 2007
From: clab at bellsouth.net (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:07:45 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Otto
In-Reply-To: <c99.1685a353.33e9ee51@aol.com>
References: <c99.1685a353.33e9ee51@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46B8DF21.2030909@bellsouth.net>

Want1937hd at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/7/07 1:27:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> clab at bellsouth.net writes:
>
>     And don't forget Otto's collection of engines, WOW!
>     Woops, I forgot, I'm a lurker, I'll just slip back into the
>     shadows.......
>     chad
>
> They just showed an original Otto four stroke engine on the History 
> Channel last night, that is one engine he needs to have. Guy from MIT 
> claimed that was the start of the Ottomobile industry. Bob in 
> connectricut.

Have you seen Otto's collection. he may have one..........
chad

From Askotto at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 15:25:11 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:25:11 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Scam of the Week
Message-ID: <c6f.15bbb5c4.33ea3d37@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/7/2007 1:23:41 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
BWANA343 at aol.com writes:

My point  is I called my bank just now and they confirmed it is a rapidly   
growing scam and recommended spreading the info to  everybody...caveat  
emptor...
Bob W






Hi Bob
 
What's caveat emptor? You talking dirty? LOL
 
I do E-bay all the time and the only form of payment I accept  is PayPal, 
cash and a US Postal service MO. THEY ARE THE ONLY  FORM OF PAPER CHECKS THAT ARE 
ASSURED TO BE GOOD. No bank, cashiers  or certified checks are good for sure. 
They can ALL be canceled and  refunded to the purchaser. The purchaser 
doesn't need the original check to get  a refund. All they need is their duplicate 
receipt. As long as the check wasn't  cashed yet, they refund the purchaser in 
full. By the time you receive the  check, it's already worthless even if it 
was a legitimate check in the first  place. I know!!!!! A costly $1400 lesson!!! 
I'm much, much smarter now!
 
The latest scam is simply photo copy a returned check before they return  it. 
It starts as a good check to you, certified, cashiers, whatever.  Copiers do 
both sides of the check so the copied check looks just like the  original. You 
can't tell the difference. 
 
I do it all the time. Saves me a bunch of money... KIDDING  I'd be  going to 
SW if I did. Hmmmmmmmmm... LOL
 
Otto



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From Askotto at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 15:40:34 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:40:34 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Dies-Otto engine
Message-ID: <c76.17cc0ed4.33ea40d2@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/7/2007 3:08:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
clab at bellsouth.net writes:

And  don't forget Otto's collection of engines, WOW!
>      Woops, I forgot, I'm a lurker, I'll just slip back into the
>   shadows.......
>     chad
>
>  They just showed an original Otto four stroke engine on the History 
>  Channel last night, that is one engine he needs to have. Guy from MIT 
>  claimed that was the start of the Ottomobile industry. Bob in 
>  connectricut.

Have you seen Otto's collection. he may have  one..........
chad




Hi Chad
 
Dude, way to slip the surely bonds of lurkhood!!! That makes 3-4 posts in  
two days! Doesn't it feel good to be part of the action!
 
I saw a new engine concept that's called "Dies-Otto". Thankfully they  didn't 
reverse the words, "Otto Dies"! It's a combination engine that runs  on both 
principals, spark ignition and combustion pressure combustion. It's a  direct 
injection into the combustion chamber gas engine. The engine primarily  runs 
on spark ignition but switches over to diesel at cruise speeds. Think of  
putting detonation to work for you. Gets 40 mpg and has lots of torque. Enough  to 
power today's full size pickups to 7.5 seconds, 0-60.
Check it out.
 
Otto
 
_http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070725/FREE/70725004&Sea
rchID=73289267451177_ 
(http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070725/FREE/70725004&SearchID=73289267451177) 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Tue Aug  7 15:42:34 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:42:34 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Scam of the Week
References: <c6f.15bbb5c4.33ea3d37@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46B8E74A.00000B.02640@TOM>

I learned , when taking accounting in college, that any check is just a
promise to pay. Not really worth the paper it is written on. And any check
can be stopped by the one signing it.

And BTW a credit card is also risky since it can be disputed. I use PayPal
quite often when purchasing or selling online.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC (car loaded, ready to head East tomorrow.)

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From clab at bellsouth.net  Tue Aug  7 15:55:09 2007
From: clab at bellsouth.net (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:55:09 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Dies-Otto engine
In-Reply-To: <c76.17cc0ed4.33ea40d2@aol.com>
References: <c76.17cc0ed4.33ea40d2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46B8EA3D.7010505@bellsouth.net>

Well, actually I'm having problems with land-speed (also shop-talk),
not able to receive e-mails but my e-mails are making it to the list.
I re-subscribed so maybe I'll be back, besides it's lonely monitoring
a list (the lurkers list) for months with no posts. And, possible, if
I ever know something I can join in on the discussion.
chad

Askotto at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/7/2007 3:08:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, 
> clab at bellsouth.net writes:
>
>     And don't forget Otto's collection of engines, WOW!
>     >     Woops, I forgot, I'm a lurker, I'll just slip back into the
>     >     shadows.......
>     >     chad
>     >
>     > They just showed an original Otto four stroke engine on the History
>     > Channel last night, that is one engine he needs to have. Guy
>     from MIT
>     > claimed that was the start of the Ottomobile industry. Bob in
>     > connectricut.
>
>     Have you seen Otto's collection. he may have one..........
>     chad
>
>  
> Hi Chad
>  
> Dude, way to slip the surely bonds of lurkhood!!! That makes 3-4 posts 
> in two days! Doesn't it feel good to be part of the action!
>  
> I saw a new engine concept that's called "Dies-Otto". Thankfully they 
> didn't reverse the words, "Otto Dies"! It's a combination engine that 
> runs on both principals, spark ignition and combustion pressure 
> combustion. It's a direct injection into the combustion chamber gas 
> engine. The engine primarily runs on spark ignition but switches over 
> to diesel at cruise speeds. Think of putting detonation to work for 
> you. Gets 40 mpg and has lots of torque. Enough to power today's full 
> size pickups to 7.5 seconds, 0-60.
> Check it out.
>  
> Otto
>  
> http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070725/FREE/70725004&SearchID=73289267451177 
> <http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070725/FREE/70725004&SearchID=73289267451177>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com 
> <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>.

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Aug  7 16:07:30 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:07:30 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Scam of the Week
Message-ID: <W238281481473921186524450@webmail5>

Even PatPal is not fool-proof. I bought an item on Ebay, paid bypayPal, never
got the item so I disputed it. Here's the catch, IfPayPal can't recover the
funds, then YOU don't get the funds. My guessis he got my money and then
closed either his bank account or paypalaccount.... or both. All I got from
paypal was a "geewhiz...we're sorry". So, I was out the payment and got no
goods. Evencash can be dangerous... Too much and it gets seized by the
gov't,(ever see the 60 Minutes episode where the fellow had $40,000confiscated
at the airport when he was flying commercial to pickup a plane he was going to
buy?) or, it can becounterfeit. Sadly, crooks are too powerful to be stopped
byhonest people..... You just have to be as careful as you can.
Ed
Headed for the salt thurs.


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Bryant [mailto:saltracer at awwwsome.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 02:42 PM
>To: BWANA343 at aol.com, Askotto at aol.com
>Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Scam of the Week
>
>I learned , when taking accounting in college, that any check is just a
>promise to pay. Not really worth the paper it is written on. And any check
>can be stopped by the one signing it.
>
>And BTW a credit card is also risky since it can be disputed. I use PayPal
>quite often when purchasing or selling online.
>
>Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC (car loaded, ready to head East tomorrow.)

From Askotto at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 16:42:20 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 18:42:20 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Dies-Otto engine
Message-ID: <cb6.140c04a3.33ea4f4c@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/7/2007 3:55:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
clab at bellsouth.net writes:

I  re-subscribed so maybe I'll be back, besides it's lonely monitoring
a list  (the lurkers list) for months with no posts.


 
 
Hi Chad
 
What would expect from a bunch of lurkers! I thought having a list  "catering 
to" lurkers would bring them "out of the closet" but they lurk on  land-speed 
list and they lurk on the lurkers list! Makes sense... Once a lurker,  always 
a lurker. It does have a lot of cool pics on the Lurkers web site though.  I 
like that feature this list doesn't have. Wonder why they don't switch.
 
Otto



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http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From Askotto at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 17:08:49 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 19:08:49 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Scam of the Week
Message-ID: <c86.18936b90.33ea5581@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/7/2007 4:08:28 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
ed at vetteracing.com writes:

Even  PatPal is not fool-proof. I bought an item on Ebay, paid by payPal, 
never got  the item so I disputed it. Here's the catch, If PayPal can't recover 
the  funds, then YOU don't get the funds. 


 
 
Hi Ed
 
Watch out for the E-Bay "Fair trade deal" too. It's where you send 1/2 of  
the bread to the "Fair Trade people" and they give the bread to the seller. The  
seller is then sup post to ship the item. You are sup post to receive the 
goods  at which time, if you are happy, you send the seller the other 1/2 of the  
bread. If you don't like the goods, you send them back and get your 1/2 down  
back. Sounds fair. The only problem is the seller grabs the 50% and never 
sends  an item he never had.
 
I know! No I didn't get slammed, I caught a guy from the UK that listed a  34 
Ford 5 window coupe I had just sold on E-Bay for $34K. He listed it with a  
"Buy it now" for $8995.00 only he didn't have the car. It was on it's way to 
New  Jersey. Actually I caught two different "sellers" that scammed it. They  
both copied my add including all the pictures and simply listed it under a scam  
seller name. One of them scammed someone else's seller ID but the 
correspondents  went to him instead of the real sellers name.
 
The UK guy even gave me a phone number in the states that forwarded to his  
phone in the UK. He said the car was actually in a storage garage in England  
when I asked for more pics I knew he couldn't produce. I baited him along  
letting him think I wanted to buy his scam car. He made arrangements for me to  
send the 1/2 deposit to a "Fair Trade Location" which I agreed to. When he went  
to pick it up, the authorities cheerfully greeted him instead. The guy had 
been  doing it for a while for cars, Boats and Motorcycles. I was the only 
"buyer"  that knew he was a scammer before the fact so they were able to catch him  
in the act. All the others learned the hard way after he picked up his bread 
and  was long gone. 
 
Otto



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From yesford at clear.net.nz  Tue Aug  7 17:31:10 2007
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 11:31:10 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] Scam of the Week
In-Reply-To: <c86.18936b90.33ea5581@aol.com>
References: <c86.18936b90.33ea5581@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BFFFD04509D44DAF996E96172B0B231D@ChrisHarrisPC>

 When he went  to pick it up, the authorities cheerfully greeted him instead.

Well done Otto.

I came close once. I want a '92' Hemi engine (who doesn't) for what is likely
to be my last hot rod project.
Was offered a full resto 57 Newport for $5,000, sort of 'first in' deal.

Yep, same thing, repeated Ebay sale by scammer asking for $1,000 NOW to
secure. Must have taken a few but luckily not me.

So, this collection of yours, not a dusty old 'need a good home' iron Chrysler
with 'Firepower' valve covers by any chance ? (or anyone else out there).

Chris Harris..................NZed

From Askotto at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 18:27:28 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 20:27:28 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Hemi anyone?
Message-ID: <c3f.18bf3a9d.33ea67f0@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/7/2007 5:32:54 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
yesford at clear.net.nz writes:

So, this collection of yours, not a dusty old  'need a good home' iron 
Chrysler with 'Firepower' valve covers by any chance ?  (or anyone else out there).
 
Chris  Harris..................NZed  



 
 
Hi Chris
 
I have a fresh 354" poked .060, NOS Hilborn 4 port injection, fresh  6-71 
Blower, solid roller cam ready to go,,, right in my 30 Model A  coupe!
 
But I also have a 9/16" stroker, 511" billet Donovan blown fuel engine  ready 
to go,,,, in my nostalgia FED. Sorry I'm so selfish! 
 
Don't need any '49-'64, 303"-394" Olds engines do you? I have all the speed  
parts to go with them.
 
Anybody looking for a 215" aluminum Olds/Buick V8's? I have 4 "in  stock". I 
wanted one for my retro Track T, I never finished.....
 
Otto



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http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Aug  7 18:40:53 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:40:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Scam of the Week
References: <c86.18936b90.33ea5581@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003501c7d955$10a2a2d0$6401a8c0@S>

Otto--
You've already earned your "good guy" stripes IMHO.  But what you did in
that 34 scam ought to seal it.
Now you just keep that chain hanging loose........and make sure it doesn't
snag any unintended halos......
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Askotto at aol.com>
To: <ed at vetteracing.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Scam of the Week
> Watch out for the E-Bay "Fair trade deal" too. ..... I caught a guy from
the UK that listed a  34
> Ford 5 window coupe I had just sold on E-Bay for $34K. .......... I was
the only
> "buyer"  that knew he was a scammer before the fact so they were able to
catch him
> in the act. All the others learned the hard way after he picked up his
bread
> and  was long gone.
> Otto

From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Tue Aug  7 21:57:02 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:57:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] NON LSR
In-Reply-To: <00d501c7d8d4$92097c30$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
References: <00d501c7d8d4$92097c30$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <46B93F0E.7070106@wildblue.net>

Thank you Dave for the, as usual, good information.

I have a PC DOS 2000 CD if you would like to try it Sparkey.
I also have it on 8 floppies.

Bryan


ddahlgren at snet.net wrote:
> For what he needs to do win 98 is much better actually ms dos 6.22 is
> the winner LOL the engine control progam is dos based so getting as
> close to msdos as you can is best..all of windows 'features' just get in
> the way.
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
> Of Bryan Savage
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 5:15 AM
> To: Sparky; List Land Speed
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] NON LSR
>
>
> If you have the Win 98 CD that came with it, change the BIOS to boot
> from the CD and reinstall 98.
>
> Bryan
>
> I would buy XP home edition, reformat the drive and install XP. Actually
> I'd install XP Pro. but the home edition is OK. About 10-20 times better
> than 98. Do not get Vista until Service Pack 2 is available.
>
> Sparky wrote:
>   
>>   I have a Toshiba notebook that has windows 98 in it---I was trying 
>> to clean it up by deleteing a bunch of my daughters left over 
>> stuff---it now goes into a loop of opening screen  "Tosh9iba, Windows 
>> 98 then does a partial evaluation ----all of this for a few times then
>>     
>
>   
>> peremantely to Windos 98 image----does not respond to any thing but 
>> on-off seitch------HELP---I would like to make this thing my ECU
>>     
> computer--
>   
>>       Sparky
>> AA/_ L  2211

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Tue Aug  7 23:15:36 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 05:15:36 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Scam of the Week
In-Reply-To: <c86.18936b90.33ea5581@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F22985BB84C78688751ED20D9E70@phx.gbl>

       Otto  your'e a freaking HERO


               wow,  you DA man


        burned that sucker -you did!         whoa.


           heavy stuff



  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one

===============================================


From: Askotto at aol.com


ed at vetteracing.com writes:

Even  PatPal is not fool-proof. I bought an item on Ebay, paid by payPal,
never got  the item so I disputed it. Here's the catch, If PayPal can't 
recover
the  funds, then YOU don't get the funds.

==============================


Hi Ed

Watch out for the E-Bay "Fair trade deal" too. It's where you send 1/2 of
the bread to the "Fair Trade people" and they give the bread to the seller. 
The
seller is then sup post to ship the item. You are sup post to receive the
goods  at which time, if you are happy, you send the seller the other 1/2 of 
the
bread. If you don't like the goods, you send them back and get your 1/2 down
back. Sounds fair. The only problem is the seller grabs the 50% and never
sends  an item he never had.

I know! No I didn't get slammed, I caught a guy from the UK that listed a  
34
Ford 5 window coupe I had just sold on E-Bay for $34K. He listed it with a
"Buy it now" for $8995.00 only he didn't have the car. It was on it's way to
New  Jersey. Actually I caught two different "sellers" that scammed it. They
both copied my add including all the pictures and simply listed it under a 
scam
seller name. One of them scammed someone else's seller ID but the
correspondents  went to him instead of the real sellers name.

The UK guy even gave me a phone number in the states that forwarded to his
phone in the UK. He said the car was actually in a storage garage in England
when I asked for more pics I knew he couldn't produce. I baited him along
letting him think I wanted to buy his scam car. He made arrangements for me 
to
send the 1/2 deposit to a "Fair Trade Location" which I agreed to. When he 
went
to pick it up, the authorities cheerfully greeted him instead. The guy had
been  doing it for a while for cars, Boats and Motorcycles. I was the only
"buyer"  that knew he was a scammer before the fact so they were able to 
catch him
in the act. All the others learned the hard way after he picked up his bread
and  was long gone.

Otto

_________________________________________________________________
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http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Aug  8 04:59:51 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 03:59:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SpeedWeek
Message-ID: <3F9C035E4FCC4CE89DDD8FAD2FA426E2@LMS>

Trailer mods are done.
The Rat is on the trailer and washed.
Today load the trucks.
Thursday early head out for the SALT and canoing out at the bend in the road.
Friday Inspect and be inspected.

      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

PS   Safe journey for all travlers----See U on the Salt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Aug  8 05:07:25 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 04:07:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SpeedWeek correction
Message-ID: <02E84ECF87C3430EAFA845AC59EA659F@LMS>

CAMPING----not canoing---beter not be canoing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From dlodom at charter.net  Wed Aug  8 09:58:25 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:58:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Pit Setup
Message-ID: <46B9E821.90209@charter.net>

Does anyone know for sure that it will be dry enough to set up your pit 
on Friday?  Don't want to park at the end of the road and pay for a 
hotel Friday nightDoug Odom in big ditch

From Jimwprice at aol.com  Wed Aug  8 10:29:34 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:29:34 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Salt
Message-ID: <be2.18d4cdb2.33eb496e@aol.com>

I heard that the only water is for about 100 yards from where the road  stops 
and the salt begins.  It is then a bit slushy but the pits should be  OK.   
It is supposed to be drying rapidly.  This from Pete  Prentice who talked to 
Monte Warnock.



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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Aug  8 11:01:03 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 10:01:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Week
Message-ID: <46B9F6CF.90804@mayfco.com>

Are any of you folk that are coming to Speed Week using a megasquirt 
engine management system on you vehicle? If so, may I stop by and chat, 
take a look? Ditto for haltech. I am looking for inexpensive stuff  for 
the new race car (wife's turbo sprint, 3 cyl of turbocharged screaming 
fury). Shoot me a vehicle number or how I can find you...

mayf

From Askotto at aol.com  Wed Aug  8 13:10:35 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:10:35 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] E-Bay scam of the week
Message-ID: <cdc.18179525.33eb6f2b@aol.com>

The most common scam by far is you receive a totally official looking  e-mail 
from "e-bay" saying it's time to renew your account info. The e-mail is  
identical in appearance to real e-bay notices except when you click on the e-bay  
icons, it sends you to a different site! You can spot it immediately when you  
look at the address it's going to after you click it, if you look at the 
address  that is.... You have to look quick as some of them change the address in 
a  second or two to a more official looking site address, IE, E-bay may be  
somewhere in the address now. We're getting smarter and smarter hackers these  
days!
 
Once there, it appears just like an official e-bay site with all the logos  
etc. It asks you for credit card info, SS# etc. Bingo, identity theft!
 
You can also get them from "Paypal" saying similar BS.
 
Beware! A good rule of thumb is E-Bay or Paypal will never ask for your SS#  
or credit card info. You do that yourself when you sign up by logging into 
their  site directly by going to official E-Bay or Paypal sites. Never go there  
from an e-mail icon you received.
 
If you ever get suspicious E-Mails from E-Bay or Paypal, same  company, 
forward them to
 
_spoof at ebay.com_ (mailto:spoof at ebay.com) 
 
They will notify you if it's a scam and it always is. You get to  spotting 
them immediately.
 
 
I'm much, much smarter now!
 

Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From webmaster at landracing.com  Wed Aug  8 16:01:14 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:01:14 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Week
In-Reply-To: <46B9F6CF.90804@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEOELLDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

Mayf,

Im running a Haltech E11 box... we will talk over dinner... How does
Thursday night sound???
We are leaving here at 9-10 PM, be one the salt early Thursday for
inspection..

JOn


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of drmayf
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 11:01 AM
To: LSR
Subject: [Land-speed] Speed Week


Are any of you folk that are coming to Speed Week using a megasquirt
engine management system on you vehicle? If so, may I stop by and chat,
take a look? Ditto for haltech. I am looking for inexpensive stuff  for
the new race car (wife's turbo sprint, 3 cyl of turbocharged screaming
fury). Shoot me a vehicle number or how I can find you...

mayf
_______________________________________________

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Aug  8 23:42:03 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:42:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] B'ville or Bust
Message-ID: <638FAA633F5243089A6A57911638B5FC@LMS>

"They" have be rounded up---Loaded Up---nothing left to to but head OUT  N.--
early AM---I should get there about Dark thirtry!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From karhu at california.com  Thu Aug  9 08:46:30 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 07:46:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Can't see it yet, but it's a' comin'
Message-ID: <001301c7da94$12e28ac0$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

On my way!  See y'all that are fortunate enough to make it to the hallowed
salt.
Benn
www.bonnevillewideopen.com

From landspeed at doesnotplaywellwithothers.net  Thu Aug  9 15:41:06 2007
From: landspeed at doesnotplaywellwithothers.net (LandSpeed)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:41:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SoCal Ride to Speedweek
Message-ID: <011801c7dacd$fff9cba0$ffed62e0$@net>

I am looking for a ride to speed week on Friday night or Saturday morning.

I am working with the Poteet and Main streamliner and was unable to levee
with the car on Wednesday.

 

If anyone has room, it would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Bill Guzenski

SCTA ElMirage announcer

E-mail direct

bill at justracecars.com

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  9 21:06:50 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 03:06:50 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] E-Bay scam of the week
In-Reply-To: <cdc.18179525.33eb6f2b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F319A42EC887CFA1FFE2D01D9E10@phx.gbl>

   OTTO is right on -as usual

   I also have received many.


  Also send ( by forwarding ) them to ' spoof at paypal.com "  as well


  DO NOT do anything the dam thing tells you to do!


  I say burn the Bas'tids


   cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx




From: Askotto at aol.com
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] E-Bay scam of the week
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:10:35 EDT

The most common scam by far is you receive a totally official looking  
e-mail
from "e-bay" saying it's time to renew your account info. The e-mail is
identical in appearance to real e-bay notices except when you click on the 
e-bay
icons, it sends you to a different site! You can spot it immediately when 
you
look at the address it's going to after you click it, if you look at the
address  that is.... You have to look quick as some of them change the 
address in
a  second or two to a more official looking site address, IE, E-bay may be
somewhere in the address now. We're getting smarter and smarter hackers 
these
days!

Once there, it appears just like an official e-bay site with all the logos
etc. It asks you for credit card info, SS# etc. Bingo, identity theft!

You can also get them from "Paypal" saying similar BS.

Beware! A good rule of thumb is E-Bay or Paypal will never ask for your SS#
or credit card info. You do that yourself when you sign up by logging into
their  site directly by going to official E-Bay or Paypal sites. Never go 
there
from an e-mail icon you received.

If you ever get suspicious E-Mails from E-Bay or Paypal, same  company,
forward them to

_spoof at ebay.com_ (mailto:spoof at ebay.com)

They will notify you if it's a scam and it always is. You get to  spotting
them immediately.


I'm much, much smarter now!


Otto

_________________________________________________________________
Messenger Cafi  open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. 
Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline

From Askotto at aol.com  Thu Aug  9 21:31:12 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 23:31:12 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] E-Bay scam of the week
Message-ID: <d29.11443f5c.33ed3600@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/9/2007 9:07:13 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com writes:

I say  burn the Bas'tids


cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New  York,




Right on! Let's git em!
 
The sad part is many people fall for the scam and the next thing they know,  
there's an electronic transfer out of their account into someone else's. My  
buddy had it happen but he just happened to check his account on-line and saw  
the pending transfer and stopped it. He did report it and the guy was nabbed 
in  Florida. That's pretty stupid to be a scammer and get a transfer into your 
own  account! I thought these hackers were smarter!
 
I forgot to mention the recurring E-bay scam where a hacker e-mails  you and 
inquires why you haven't paid for an item and he's about ready to report  you 
to the e-bay cops and get you suspended from E-Bay! The e-mail comes on a  
scam copy of the normal buyer/seller format about asking a question. It  gives 
you the item number with a convenient icon as usual to go to the item  directly. 
You see the "normal" E-Bay log-in screen asking you for your handle  and 
password. SOP. The only thing is it has directed you to the scammers site.  You 
can spot these like other scams as the address it goes to after clicking the  
icon isn't an e-bay site. I see them all the time and I "go along with it"  
except when asked for my handle and password, I enter something  like "scammers 
will die" for the handle and something cute like "F%$# you  asshole" in the 
password.
 
Oddly, it will actually take you to the item on e-bay but they already have  
your info, if you fell for it. This is how the scammer sellers get your 
password  so they can use your account to list fraudulent items or use it to list 
their  legitimate items,,, on your nickel!!! 
 
Just goes to show you, nowadays being street smart moves into your living  
room!
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Fri Aug 10 11:26:14 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:26:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] E-Bay scam of the week
In-Reply-To: <d29.11443f5c.33ed3600@aol.com>
References: <d29.11443f5c.33ed3600@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46BC9FB6.4050000@wildblue.net>

I have 6 different email addresses that I use. One is only for ebay and 
paypal
and contains non alpha characters which random address generators have never
hit - so far. This address is the one I use for  Internet activities 
like this, another
for all online purchases, another for political stuff, etc.
Special characters like . - _  #  where allowed, reduce the junk by 99.9%.

I don't have to worry about virus type stuff  because  my Internet PC runs
Mac OS X on the old PowerPC processor (non-X386 code).
My very old desktop desktop runs Win 2000 Pro and the laptop, XP Pro
and DOS.

Bryan  

Wish I was at Wendover.







Askotto at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 8/9/2007 9:07:13 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
> boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com writes:
>
> I say  burn the Bas'tids
>
>
> cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New  York,
>
>
>
>
> Right on! Let's git em!
>  
> The sad part is many people fall for the scam and the next thing they know,  
> there's an electronic transfer out of their account into someone else's. My  
> buddy had it happen but he just happened to check his account on-line and saw  
> the pending transfer and stopped it. He did report it and the guy was nabbed 
> in  Florida. That's pretty stupid to be a scammer and get a transfer into your 
> own  account! I thought these hackers were smarter!
>  
> I forgot to mention the recurring E-bay scam where a hacker e-mails  you and 
> inquires why you haven't paid for an item and he's about ready to report  you 
> to the e-bay cops and get you suspended from E-Bay! The e-mail comes on a  
> scam copy of the normal buyer/seller format about asking a question. It  gives 
> you the item number with a convenient icon as usual to go to the item  directly. 
> You see the "normal" E-Bay log-in screen asking you for your handle  and 
> password. SOP. The only thing is it has directed you to the scammers site.  You 
> can spot these like other scams as the address it goes to after clicking the  
> icon isn't an e-bay site. I see them all the time and I "go along with it"  
> except when asked for my handle and password, I enter something  like "scammers 
> will die" for the handle and something cute like "F%$# you  asshole" in the 
> password.
>  
> Oddly, it will actually take you to the item on e-bay but they already have  
> your info, if you fell for it. This is how the scammer sellers get your 
> password  so they can use your account to list fraudulent items or use it to list 
> their  legitimate items,,, on your nickel!!! 
>  
> Just goes to show you, nowadays being street smart moves into your living  
> room!
>  
> Otto
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> b.a.savage at wildblue.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Mon Aug 13 17:47:22 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:47:22 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there ?
Message-ID: <c3d.1a47cc0e.33f2478a@aol.com>

Lots of "turnouts" at today's runs at SW, goes to show all youse guys what  
didn't take your cars out there are more smarter? 
Nice pix on SCTA site, and always good coverage from Amo,Inc. 
'So, who's going to BUB or WOS ? 
Anybody else on The Salt not report in?
Inquiring mindless masses need a List Fix......
Bob, gas below $3 here, Hallelujah !, W



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 13 18:56:45 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:56:45 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there  ?
References: <c3d.1a47cc0e.33f2478a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000301c7de0e$02ff1b50$2101a8c0@WinXP>

I is here (in Pennsylvania unfortunately)

Nice to see that Don Ferguson, #75, XXO/FS, hit 306,  over his record of 295 
mph.

I'm a fan of the X classes, especially when they're not Ford flatheads (but 
they are okay too).

Talked to Ferguson and crew at El Mirage last September, nice to see an old 
GMC in-line six go 300+

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BWANA343 at aol.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 7:47 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there ?


> Lots of "turnouts" at today's runs at SW, goes to show all youse guys what
> didn't take your cars out there are more smarter?
> Nice pix on SCTA site, and always good coverage from Amo,Inc.
> 'So, who's going to BUB or WOS ?
> Anybody else on The Salt not report in?
> Inquiring mindless masses need a List Fix......
> Bob, gas below $3 here, Hallelujah !, W
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL 
> at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> jolylance at earthlink.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 13 19:32:46 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:32:46 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there  ?
In-Reply-To: <000301c7de0e$02ff1b50$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F26B440B2AD4E2639D24419D9DD0@phx.gbl>

        X's are the best......   ya boy.


           Joe,  BTW,


      if youre in Pa.,

    then you BETTER be planning on going to Susquehanna, Selinsgrove, Port 
Royal,  Lincoln,

    -and Williams Grove this week...  !

            - or you're 'nuts'      LOL

    cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York, (who wishes he was )

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one

  Speedway Bikes, Harley D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
    Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,
      Aerial Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,

                 -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they 
are

     ------------------------------------- oooo 
------------------------------------




From: "joseph lance" <jolylance at earthlink.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>, <BWANA343 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there  ?
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:56:45 -0400

I is here (in Pennsylvania unfortunately)

Nice to see that Don Ferguson, #75, XXO/FS, hit 306,  over his record of 295
mph.

I'm a fan of the X classes, especially when they're not Ford flatheads (but 
they are okay too).

Talked to Ferguson and crew at El Mirage last September, nice to see an old 
GMC in-line six go 300+

Lance



----- Original Message -----
From: <BWANA343 at aol.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 7:47 PM

Subject: [Land-speed] Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there ?


Lots of "turnouts" at today's runs at SW,
goes to show all youse guys what didn't take your cars out there are more 
smarter ?
  Nice pix on SCTA site, and always good coverage from Amo,Inc.

   'So, who's going to BUB or WOS ?

  Anybody else on The Salt not report in?

   Inquiring mindless masses need a List Fix......

    Bob, gas below $3 here,  Hallelujah !,  W

_________________________________________________________________
Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! 
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Aug 13 21:28:55 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:28:55 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there  ?
In-Reply-To: <c3d.1a47cc0e.33f2478a@aol.com>
References: <c3d.1a47cc0e.33f2478a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ef8c158886c037c3fedaf072a28130da@comcast.net>

I guess my salt report was too many words on Sunday morning.  I'll 
catch up later.  The Salt Talks were fun last night.

Wes

On Aug 13, 2007, at 5:47 PM, BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:

> Lots of "turnouts" at today's runs at SW, goes to show all youse guys 
> what
> didn't take your cars out there are more smarter?
> Nice pix on SCTA site, and always good coverage from Amo,Inc.
> 'So, who's going to BUB or WOS ?
> Anybody else on The Salt not report in?
> Inquiring mindless masses need a List Fix......
> Bob, gas below $3 here, Hallelujah !, W
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new 
> AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Tue Aug 14 08:58:45 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:58:45 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there  ?
Message-ID: <d07.16b8ab5d.33f31d25@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/13/2007 11:29:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
wester6935 at comcast.net writes:

I guess  my salt report was too many words on Sunday morning.  I'll 
catch up  later.  The Salt Talks were fun last  night.

Wes


I hope you didn't misunderstand me, I'd never knock anybody involved with  
volunteer work. The coverage from the people attending has been fine, almost  
puts us Salt non residents on the scene. Anyboy spending a loooong day on that  
Desert takes time to get on a lap top after that is top of my good guy or girl 
 list.
THANK YOU !!!..... ALL of YOU !!!
My "Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there ?" was directed to the  
Listards Not on the Salt, as in what are these shut-outs/shut-ins? doing this  
week? 
Bob, palindromic named nice guy, W



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Aug 14 11:04:58 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:04:58 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there  ?
In-Reply-To: <d07.16b8ab5d.33f31d25@aol.com>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16591@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

This land speed fan has been off to the Sandhills Open Road Challenge in
NE.

Primary part is a 55 mile run on a closed road - entrant picks an
average speed OR w/ safety gear to match one can run in the unlimited
class.  The record was broken this year by a fellow with a twin turbo
Viper 144mph up from 133ish.

The other element of the event is a standing start mile (and I REALLY
wanted to do this) on the "smoothest, widest, road in the county" . .
.haha.  The Viper mentioned above ran a 215.1mph in the mile . . .for
second place.  King of the Hill honors (best single mile run) went to a
Mistubishi sedan - 215.9 mph but still tuning!

 David, dreaming about that magical place














In a message dated 8/13/2007 11:29:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wester6935 at comcast.net writes:

I guess  my salt report was too many words on Sunday morning.  I'll
catch up  later.  The Salt Talks were fun last  night.

Wes


I hope you didn't misunderstand me, I'd never knock anybody involved
with
volunteer work. The coverage from the people attending has been fine,
almost
puts us Salt non residents on the scene. Anyboy spending a loooong day
on that
Desert takes time to get on a lap top after that is top of my good guy
or girl
 list.
THANK YOU !!!..... ALL of YOU !!!
My "Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there ?" was directed to
the
Listards Not on the Salt, as in what are these shut-outs/shut-ins? doing
this
week?
Bob, palindromic named nice guy, W



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_______________________________________________
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Land-speed mailing list

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From blindasabatgraphixs at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 14 12:37:35 2007
From: blindasabatgraphixs at hotmail.com (1 eyedwonder)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:37:35 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed]  Hello,Hello,Hello...Is there anybody out there ?
Message-ID: <BAY137-W2286E63DA7D3E878B76D78A8DD0@phx.gbl>

Well I'm here in Seattle...unfortunately. I had spent most of the winter
working on Dave haller's #93 A/FL.  Seems like the boys aren't having things
go so well so far. Hope they can get things sorted out. New car for Dave (from
the Barretta to the lakester)as well as switching from gas to fuel
injection.......not to mention from 4 speed to turbo automatic.  They're on
the learning curve...just hope the frustration level doesn't get to high.I
had to make an unexpected hospital visit (kidney's..damn stones) and was
unable to attend this years event.  As always Amo's daily updates are much
appreciated (Kielani's reports have been very entertaining....I think Jon has
now lost his reporters job.).  I'm disappointed I was unable to make Salt
Talks as it sounds like it was a great event....and I missed the opportunity
to see the Camel!! I always look forward to wandering through the pits talking
with everyone and enjoying looking at all the cars and bikes....sure am
missing it this year.I too was happy to see the inline Jimmy goin 300.  I like
to see the unusual...and Jack Costella's cars are always a favorite.Pat in a
sunny Seattle
_________________________________________________________________
See what youre getting intobefore you go there
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507

From Askotto at aol.com  Wed Aug 15 10:31:19 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:31:19 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Sample scam E-Bay e-mail
Message-ID: <cb3.172f7bcb.33f48457@aol.com>

I just received this. It's a sample of scam e-bay  notices if you want to 
check it out.
 
Otto
 
 
 
 
eBay sent this message to your registered email  address.
Your registered name is included to show this  message originated from eBay. 
_Learn  more_ (http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/name-userid-emails.html) .
  
Non Paying Bidder Alert Nr.3  -- Respond Now
               eBay sent this  message on behalf of an eBay member through My 
 Messages. Responses sent using email will go ! to  the e Bay member directly 
and will include your  email address.         Dear eBay  member,

It's been 3 weeks since you won my  auction and you haven't sent the payment 
yet. I will report  you to the police and to eBay right away. You will receive 
a  non paying bidder report and your eBay account will be  suspended 
imediately. You are a bad person and you deserve  this. Bye bye.  
Respond to this alert   

Responses in My Messages will not include  your email address.  


Thank you,
_4eb! _ (http://myworld.ebay.com/4eb) ( 9 679)  
(http://pages.ebay.com/services/buyandsell/powersellers.html)  (http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/4eb)  
(http://stores.ebay.com/ejum-TEC) 


_Marketplace Safety  Tip_ (http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter)        
Always  remember to complete your transactions on eBay -  it's the safer way to 
trade.

Is this  message an offer to buy your item directly!  through email without 
winning the item on eBay?  If so, please help make the eBay marketplace  safer 
by reporting it to us. These "outside of  eBay" transactions may be unsafe and 
are against  eBay policy. _Learn more about trading  safely_ 
(http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter/selling_safely.html) .          Is this  email 
inappropriate? Does it violate _eBay policy_ 
(http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-unwelcome-email-misuse.html) ? Help  protect the Community by _reporting  it_ 
(http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-unwelcome-email-misuse.html) .




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From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 15 18:08:41 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:08:41 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Sample scam E-Bay e-mail
In-Reply-To: <cb3.172f7bcb.33f48457@aol.com>
References: <cb3.172f7bcb.33f48457@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ae6f4614fc51ee1ef5515009458bdd53@comcast.net>

My daughter found a 2001 Grand Cherokee for $9,000.  She told the 
seller she wanted the car.  In the meantime the location of the car 
moved by 700 miles.  They contacted her yesterday and instructed her to 
send a money order for the full amount to a bank in London, England.  
She suggested they try their scam on someone else and reported them to 
ebay.

Wes

On Aug 15, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Askotto at aol.com wrote:

> I just received this. It's a sample of scam e-bay  notices if you want 
> to
> check it out.
>
> Otto
>
>
>
>
> eBay sent this message to your registered email  address.
> Your registered name is included to show this  message originated from 
> eBay.
> _Learn  more_ 
> (http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/name-userid-emails.html) .
>
> Non Paying Bidder Alert Nr.3  -- Respond Now
>                eBay sent this  message on behalf of an eBay member 
> through My
>  Messages. Responses sent using email will go ! to  the e Bay member 
> directly
> and will include your  email address.         Dear eBay  member,
>
> It's been 3 weeks since you won my  auction and you haven't sent the 
> payment
> yet. I will report  you to the police and to eBay right away. You will 
> receive
> a  non paying bidder report and your eBay account will be  suspended
> imediately. You are a bad person and you deserve  this. Bye bye.
> Respond to this alert
>
> Responses in My Messages will not include  your email address.
>
>
> Thank you,
> _4eb! _ (http://myworld.ebay.com/4eb) ( 9 679)
> (http://pages.ebay.com/services/buyandsell/powersellers.html)  
> (http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/4eb)
> (http://stores.ebay.com/ejum-TEC)
>
>
> _Marketplace Safety  Tip_ (http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter)
> Always  remember to complete your transactions on eBay -  it's the 
> safer way to
> trade.
>
> Is this  message an offer to buy your item directly!  through email 
> without
> winning the item on eBay?  If so, please help make the eBay 
> marketplace  safer
> by reporting it to us. These "outside of  eBay" transactions may be 
> unsafe and
> are against  eBay policy. _Learn more about trading  safely_
> (http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter/selling_safely.html) .          
> Is this  email
> inappropriate? Does it violate _eBay policy_
> (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-unwelcome-email-misuse.html) 
> ? Help  protect the Community by _reporting  it_
> (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-unwelcome-email-misuse.html) .
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new 
> AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 15 20:51:04 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:51:04 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Sample scam E-Bay e-mail
In-Reply-To: <bd7.1875f92b.33f4f1b2@aol.com>
References: <bd7.1875f92b.33f4f1b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <11cb995a09192586499cdf7c593083d2@comcast.net>

With the seller on the phone she really didn't have that option.  She 
did ask them if they thought she was stupid, to send money out of the 
country for something she didn't have in her possession!  Her husband 
and I had both told her that it seemed too good to be true.  A price 
differential of over $5,000 from Blue Book sent up some flags for both 
of us.  A loaded V8 '01 model with 51,000 miles is listed at around 
$13,900.

Wes

On Aug 15, 2007, at 6:17 PM, BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 8/15/2007 8:09:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> wester6935 at comcast.net writes:
>> She suggested they try their scam on someone else and reported them to
>> ebay.
> Maybe she should have contacted Ebay first, possibly set up a sting ? 
> I'd REALLY like to get personal with one of these dirtbags, I have a 
> reputation for vindictiveness, still hold grudges from the 8th grade.
> Bob, angry old man,W
>
>
>
> Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

From Askotto at aol.com  Wed Aug 15 21:49:58 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:49:58 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Sample scam E-Bay e-mail
Message-ID: <cc8.17bd256f.33f52366@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/15/2007 6:09:01 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
wester6935 at comcast.net writes:

My  daughter found a 2001 Grand Cherokee for $9,000.  She told the 
seller  she wanted the car.  In the meantime the location of the car 
moved by  700 miles.  They contacted her yesterday and instructed her to 
send a  money order for the full amount to a bank in London, England.  
She  suggested they try their scam on someone else and reported them to  
ebay.

Wes




Good save!!!!!!
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From Askotto at aol.com  Wed Aug 15 22:04:21 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:04:21 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Sample scam E-Bay e-mail
Message-ID: <ca6.16ccf586.33f526c5@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/15/2007 6:35:46 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
rjdenton479 at gmail.com writes:

I was  told by someone that my Austin Healey was for sale on ebay. I
looked it up  and to be sure, there it was. My pictures and my
description lifted off of  the website of a major concours show. The
saddest part was he had a $15,000  buy it now price and got no buyers.
I have over $70,000 in it. Needless to  say, Ebay shut that one down.

Bob
Detroit, where the Woodward Avenue  Dream Cruise is in 2 days.




Hi Bob
 
Next time, consider working with the officials and play along like I did  and 
you have a better chance of ending his scam. The only way they can catch  
them is if someone baits them in and they get caught at the receiving end. When  
they show to collect the bread they get surprised by handcuffs instead. 
 
I worked with the E-Bay "cops" and they worked with the real cops in the  UK. 
They just asked me to play along, except sending money of course and  forward 
all e-mail correspondence I had with the scammer. It was fun! I  found 
busting them much more rewarding than just blowing them off. Try  it, you'll like it!
 
Otto



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From Want1937hd at aol.com  Thu Aug 16 07:47:48 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:47:48 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] ANOTHER eBay scam
Message-ID: <ce3.183dcb95.33f5af84@aol.com>

Just listed a 1988 Chrysler on eBay and the "Buyer" hit the Buy it Now 
option. Got an email right away with instructions that more money would be sent and 
a "shipper" would pick it up. I questioned the logic of trucking a car of this 
quality 1,500 miles across the country. She said it was just going to the 
docks for shipment to the UK. Zero feedback and a Private coverage as well. The 
old fake MO trick that causes you to loose the vehicle and you are lible for 
the lost funds to your bank. I know a turnip truck when I see one. Contacted 
eBay and asked for a refund that they granted and relisted the car with 
instructions NOT to bid unless you had 10 positive feedbacks. SAME SOB hit Buy it Now 
with a eBay Id that was one didget different than the other. eBay corrected 
things. Got a refund and the other party is no longer on eBay.........with those 
two ID's. Bob in connecticut



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From Want1937hd at aol.com  Thu Aug 16 07:51:23 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:51:23 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NOT an eBay SCAM == $1,000 '32 Ford Roadster
Message-ID: <c70.19d7c0e9.33f5b05b@aol.com>

That is correct! Go to the HAMB website and scroll down to the $1,000 '32 
Ford thread. Seller used the worst photos you can imagine, auction had 8 visits 
until a smart guy hit the Buy it Now and WON big time. They are still out 
there! This was a Pre War Hot Rod, and sold by the original builders son. Bob in 
connecticut



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From Askotto at aol.com  Thu Aug 16 13:27:09 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:27:09 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] NOT an eBay SCAM == $1,000 '32 Ford Roadster
Message-ID: <d2d.140971e1.33f5ff0d@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/16/2007 7:51:23 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  Want1937hd 
writes:

That is  correct! Go to the HAMB website and scroll down to the $1,000 '32 
Ford thread.  Seller used the worst photos you can imagine, auction had 8 visits 
until a  smart guy hit the Buy it Now and WON big time. They are still out 
there! This  was a Pre War Hot Rod, and sold by the original builders son. Bob 
in  connecticut




Nice going Bob! You REALLY know how to make a man cry!!!! LOL
 
Otto



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From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 04:08:51 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:08:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] August 19: TEXAS MILE: SPEED TV: SPEED RECORDS
Message-ID: <492910.87259.qm@web30712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Some of you might be interested in watching this when it comes on. The crew did some filming at the last Texas Mile.  I'm not sure what else might be in this pilot.
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas

infonasatx <info at nasatx.com> wrote:
  To: NASATxNews at yahoogroups.com
From: "infonasatx" <info at nasatx.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 00:10:53 -0000
Subject: [NASATxNews] :August 19: TEXAS MILE: SPEED TV: SPEED RECORDS

  Hi All,
  It is official.  SPEED RECORDS with some of the episodes featuring racers from The Texas Mile will begin on August 19, 2007 on SPEED TV.  According to the schedule online, the first show will be Sunday, August 19, 2007 at 10 PM Eastern, 9PM Central, 8PM Mountain and 7 PM Pacific. PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK YOUR TV PROGRAMMING FOR TIMES!!!!
  Go to the web site www.speedtv.com for future dates and showings. Go to the programs link and choose program schedule. Once on the schedule page, you can search for the show times under the program of LAUNH HOUR. 
  YOUR FEEDBACK and WATCHING THE SHOW will be vital to the success of the show and getting SPEED TV more involved in events like the TEXAS MILE. You need to send them feedback via their web site. There is information about feedback on the programs page for Launch Hour: http://www.speedtv.com/programs/515/.
  Also...here is a copy of some information they have on the site:
  SPEED empowers YOU, the viewer, with this new series that premieres new show pilots and asks for your feedback. From the producers of PINKS, comes your hour of power. Do you like this pilot? Should it be canned and never shown again, or is this the type of programming that SPEED needs to be running more of? 

SPEED RECORDS
If you're going for a national, regional, state, or local track record we'll be there! Watch as people make history breaking SPEED records across the country!

Send your comments on SPEED Records! to:
  rich at launchhour.tv and in the subject line put:
SPEED Records Comments
  TUNE IN and ENJOY.
  God's Speed,
  Shannon E. Matus
J&S Matus Motorsports, Inc.
281-802-9863
info at nasatx.com
www.nasatx.com
www.texasmile.com
www.txspeed.com
  
 
   
__._,_.___  

  Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional 
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) 
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured 
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe 


__,_._,___ 

       
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 

From Askotto at aol.com  Fri Aug 17 21:33:59 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:33:59 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car...
Message-ID: <c42.1896d8fb.33f7c2a7@aol.com>

I was checking SW results and the Hot Rod Mag Special is at it again  setting 
records at a record pace. They need to rename it to the "Red Hat  Special"! 
How about a new record in a different class, every day! Check this  out.
 
Monday     AA/BFCC       249.832  Keith Turk
Tuesday    AA/BGCC       246.301  DF
Wed           AA/CBFALT   225.068  Tonya Turk
Thursday   AA/BGALT    249.741 Steve Atwell
Friday        AA/CFALT    252.481   DF
 
Although some records were on open or soft records, it's still a heck of an  
accomplishment!
Congratulations too all.
 
Lets see, what's left, AA/CBGALT, AA/FCC, AA/GCC, AA/GALT and AA/FALT. So  
many records to break, so little time. They still have 2 days! Good Luck! What  
fun!!!
 
Otto



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From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Fri Aug 17 23:53:34 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:53:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek
Message-ID: <59381983822740829842B2312CA602A7@LMS>

Got home last night after a VERY eventful week---will update later---Thanks to
KT for introducing me to 3 people who help salvage it!--- best run put me in
inpound 9 miles above the old record---could not back it up the next AM---for
lots of reasons---RATICAl is at the chassis shop getting a nose job, a tail
job, a new rear axel, and some WEIGHT in the Rats -ss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From Askotto at aol.com  Sat Aug 18 00:03:21 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 02:03:21 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek
Message-ID: <d3f.113b1cca.33f7e5a9@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/17/2007 11:53:53 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
sparky.2211 at cox.net writes:

Got home  last night after a VERY eventful week---will update later---Thanks 
to
KT  for introducing me to 3 people who help salvage it!--- best run put me  in
inpound 9 miles above the old record---could not back it up the next  AM---for
lots of reasons---RATICAl is at the chassis shop getting a nose  job, a tail
job, a new rear axel, and some WEIGHT in the Rats  -ss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sparky
AA/_ L   2211




Way to go Sparky!
 
Sorry you couldn't back it up but it's still an accomplishment to top the  
old record by 9 mph! Good luck next time.
 
Otto



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From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Aug 18 08:06:44 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 07:06:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Nevada County Local Sports: Need for speed -
	TheUnion.com
Message-ID: <000501c7e1a1$023f36f0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.theunion.com:80/article/20070817/SPORTS/108170171

record set with truck engine by 70 year youngman
dale

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Aug 18 14:09:41 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:09:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
Message-ID: <000001c7e1d3$b6ec0a60$3574a943@dim8100>

I don't see how that is possible, Otto.  From the very conception of the
Classis Class there has been a rule preventing the changing out of that
class within the year. Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a vehicle in
the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned event, the
vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing season".



The records you have listed show the same car in BOTH the CLASSIC category
and the MODIFIED category. That ain't possible.  Have they changed the rule
in mid-season? Did you make a mistake? Were they different cars? What is
your source of the data?  -Elon



Otto wrote:

...I was checking SW results and the Hot Rod Mag Special is at it again
setting records at a record pace. They need to rename it to the "Red Hat
Special"! How about a new record in a different class, every day! Check this
out.

Monday   AA/BFCC   249.832  Keith Turk

Tuesday  AA/BGCC   246.301  DF

Wed      AA/CBFALT 225.068  Tonya Turk

Thursday AA/BGALT  249.741 Steve Atwell

Friday    AA/CFALT  252.481   DF

From webmaster at landracing.com  Sat Aug 18 14:17:48 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:17:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
In-Reply-To: <000001c7e1d3$b6ec0a60$3574a943@dim8100>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEGEMNDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

I was thinking the same thing, I thought maybe the Classic catagory was at
end of week, which by that means, it would be ok, but if it was done in the
middle of the week... There may be some discussion...

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of 3 liter
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 2:10 PM
To: land-speed submit
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car


I don't see how that is possible, Otto.  From the very conception of the
Classis Class there has been a rule preventing the changing out of that
class within the year. Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a vehicle in
the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned event, the
vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing season".



The records you have listed show the same car in BOTH the CLASSIC category
and the MODIFIED category. That ain't possible.  Have they changed the rule
in mid-season? Did you make a mistake? Were they different cars? What is
your source of the data?  -Elon



Otto wrote:

...I was checking SW results and the Hot Rod Mag Special is at it again
setting records at a record pace. They need to rename it to the "Red Hat
Special"! How about a new record in a different class, every day! Check this
out.

Monday   AA/BFCC   249.832  Keith Turk

Tuesday  AA/BGCC   246.301  DF

Wed      AA/CBFALT 225.068  Tonya Turk

Thursday AA/BGALT  249.741 Steve Atwell

Friday    AA/CFALT  252.481   DF
_______________________________________________
webmaster at landracing.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sat Aug 18 14:25:51 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:25:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEGEMNDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <000801c7e1d5$f8cdd0b0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

You can't change into or out of Classic category during the meet. As I 
understand the rule. Of course it's always possible that the rule means 
something completely different then what I am reading.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
To: "3 liter" <saltfever at comcast.net>; "land-speed submit" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car


>I was thinking the same thing, I thought maybe the Classic catagory was at
> end of week, which by that means, it would be ok, but if it was done in 
> the
> middle of the week... There may be some discussion...
>
> Jon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of 3 liter
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 2:10 PM
> To: land-speed submit
> Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
>
>
> I don't see how that is possible, Otto.  From the very conception of the
> Classis Class there has been a rule preventing the changing out of that
> class within the year. Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a vehicle 
> in
> the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned event, the
> vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing season".
>
>
>
> The records you have listed show the same car in BOTH the CLASSIC category
> and the MODIFIED category. That ain't possible.  Have they changed the 
> rule
> in mid-season? Did you make a mistake? Were they different cars? What is
> your source of the data?  -Elon
>
>
>
> Otto wrote:
>
> ...I was checking SW results and the Hot Rod Mag Special is at it again
> setting records at a record pace. They need to rename it to the "Red Hat
> Special"! How about a new record in a different class, every day! Check 
> this
> out.
>
> Monday   AA/BFCC   249.832  Keith Turk
>
> Tuesday  AA/BGCC   246.301  DF
>
> Wed      AA/CBFALT 225.068  Tonya Turk
>
> Thursday AA/BGALT  249.741 Steve Atwell
>
> Friday    AA/CFALT  252.481   DF

From webmaster at landracing.com  Sat Aug 18 14:26:06 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:26:06 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car #2
In-Reply-To: <000001c7e1d3$b6ec0a60$3574a943@dim8100>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEKEMNDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

I just talked with Keith, He says they entered the AA/CBGALT class with
Steve Atwell driving, and it could just be a typo error... Or wrong class
code error... Same car...

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of 3 liter
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 2:10 PM
To: land-speed submit
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car


I don't see how that is possible, Otto.  From the very conception of the
Classis Class there has been a rule preventing the changing out of that
class within the year. Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a vehicle in
the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned event, the
vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing season".



The records you have listed show the same car in BOTH the CLASSIC category
and the MODIFIED category. That ain't possible.  Have they changed the rule
in mid-season? Did you make a mistake? Were they different cars? What is
your source of the data?  -Elon



Otto wrote:

...I was checking SW results and the Hot Rod Mag Special is at it again
setting records at a record pace. They need to rename it to the "Red Hat
Special"! How about a new record in a different class, every day! Check this
out.

Monday   AA/BFCC   249.832  Keith Turk

Tuesday  AA/BGCC   246.301  DF

Wed      AA/CBFALT 225.068  Tonya Turk

Thursday AA/BGALT  249.741 Steve Atwell

Friday    AA/CFALT  252.481   DF
_______________________________________________
webmaster at landracing.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 14:37:51 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:37:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
In-Reply-To: <000001c7e1d3$b6ec0a60$3574a943@dim8100>
Message-ID: <900131.21805.qm@web30709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I may be wrong, but I think they did it the other way around.  They knocked off the "regular" classes first, then changed into the "Classic" category.  Now they can't go back into "regular" classes until next year.  They just made the rules "work" for them.
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas
   
  
3 liter <saltfever at comcast.net> wrote:
  I don't see how that is possible, Otto. From the very conception of the
Classis Class there has been a rule preventing the changing out of that
class within the year. Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a vehicle in
the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned event, the
vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing season".



The records you have listed show the same car in BOTH the CLASSIC category
and the MODIFIED category. That ain't possible. Have they changed the rule
in mid-season? Did you make a mistake? Were they different cars? What is
your source of the data? -Elon



Otto wrote:

...I was checking SW results and the Hot Rod Mag Special is at it again
setting records at a record pace. They need to rename it to the "Red Hat
Special"! How about a new record in a different class, every day! Check this
out.

Monday AA/BFCC 249.832 Keith Turk

Tuesday AA/BGCC 246.301 DF

Wed AA/CBFALT 225.068 Tonya Turk

Thursday AA/BGALT 249.741 Steve Atwell

Friday AA/CFALT 252.481 DF
       
---------------------------------
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Check out fun summer activities for kids.

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sat Aug 18 14:45:15 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:45:15 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
Message-ID: <000501c7e1d8$aea54240$3574a943@dim8100>

You can't change into or out of the CLASSIC class for the "entire racing
season". That means the car stays CLASSIC (or MODIFIED) from the time it
enterers an event until the SEASON is over . . . not the EVENT. That would
be World Finals in October. This is a common sense rule that was part and
parcel of creating the CLASSIC class. Someone has made a mistake in their
reporting :-)

  -Elon

 

Rich Fox:

You can't change into or out of Classic category during the meet. As I 

understand the rule. Of course it's always possible that the rule means 

something completely different then what I am reading.

From Askotto at aol.com  Sat Aug 18 14:51:09 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:51:09 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
Message-ID: <c19.1d6fd936.33f8b5bd@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/18/2007 2:09:51 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
saltfever at comcast.net writes:

The  records you have listed show the same car in BOTH the CLASSIC category
and  the MODIFIED category. That ain't possible.  Have they changed the  rule
in mid-season? Did you make a mistake? Were they different cars? What  is
your source of the data?  -Elon




Hi Elon
 
My source was the SCTA results for SW 2007 on their web site.
 
Otto
 
 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From Askotto at aol.com  Sat Aug 18 15:09:21 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:09:21 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
Message-ID: <c46.1bf1f178.33f8ba01@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/18/2007 2:09:51 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
saltfever at comcast.net writes:

I don't  see how that is possible, Otto.  From the very conception of  the
Classis Class there has been a rule preventing the changing out of  that
class within the year. Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a  vehicle in
the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned  event, the
vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing  season".




Hi Elon
 
Actually they didn't break the rule unless they ran the car at EM in the  
classic category earlier this year. If they ran ALT or CC they would still be  
cool. They switched to Classic after the other records were set.
 
I have "mixed" feelings of just switching the class of a car without doing  
anything but switch class designations on the car and go "cherry  picking" on 
soft or open records. Seems like a hollow victory to me but I'm  probably just 
jealous because they're doing it and I'm not!!! LOL
 
You know what they say, "A mans ego is only as big as his AA engine".
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Aug 18 15:15:22 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:15:22 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
References: <c46.1bf1f178.33f8ba01@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001201c7e1dc$e50233d0$6400a8c0@Dale>

Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car


> In a message dated 8/18/2007 2:09:51 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> saltfever at comcast.net writes:
>
> I don't  see how that is possible, Otto.  From the very conception of  the
> Classis Class there has been a rule preventing the changing out of  that
> class within the year. Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a  vehicle 
> in
> the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned  event, the
> vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing  season".
>
>
>
>
> Hi Elon
>
> Actually they didn't break the rule unless they ran the car at EM in the
> classic category earlier this year. If they ran ALT or CC they would still 
> be
> cool. They switched to Classic after the other records were set.
>
> I have "mixed" feelings of just switching the class of a car without doing
> anything but switch class designations on the car and go "cherry  picking" 
> on
> soft or open records. Seems like a hollow victory to me but I'm  probably 
> just
> jealous because they're doing it and I'm not!!! LOL
>
> You know what they say, "A mans ego is only as big as his AA engine".
>
> Otto
>
My AA engine is only 502 so I am at the bottom of the ego
dale
ssuunnyy and back home after a great Bonneville experience 

From Askotto at aol.com  Sat Aug 18 15:18:01 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:18:01 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
Message-ID: <d21.1212f5f9.33f8bc09@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/18/2007 3:15:39 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
d.pulju at pahrump.com writes:

My AA  engine is only 502 so I am at the bottom of the  ego
dale



Hi Dale
 
Hey, mines only 358", where does that leave me on the ego scale! LOL
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Aug 18 16:58:55 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:58:55 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
In-Reply-To: <d21.1212f5f9.33f8bc09@aol.com>
References: <d21.1212f5f9.33f8bc09@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9fb75a82043e4f33340139a8503183f8@comcast.net>

You know what they say about things getting smaller with age!

Wes

On Aug 18, 2007, at 3:18 PM, Askotto at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/18/2007 3:15:39 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> d.pulju at pahrump.com writes:
>
> My AA  engine is only 502 so I am at the bottom of the  ego
> dale
>
>
>
> Hi Dale
>
> Hey, mines only 358", where does that leave me on the ego scale! LOL
>
> Otto
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new 
> AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sat Aug 18 17:30:10 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:30:10 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek
In-Reply-To: <59381983822740829842B2312CA602A7@LMS>
References: <59381983822740829842B2312CA602A7@LMS>
Message-ID: <001a01c7e1ef$b8552690$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Sparky;

I left for home on Wednesday morning and as I passed Knolls on I-80 and
before it faded out I heard the radio announcer report that you spun on the
course. I'm sure that was a bit of drama that you really didn't need.
Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you're OK.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Sparky
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 10:54 PM
To: AA List
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek

Got home last night after a VERY eventful week---will update later---Thanks
to
KT for introducing me to 3 people who help salvage it!--- best run put me in
inpound 9 miles above the old record---could not back it up the next
AM---for
lots of reasons---RATICAl is at the chassis shop getting a nose job, a tail
job, a new rear axel, and some WEIGHT in the Rats -ss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
_______________________________________________

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Sat Aug 18 19:04:00 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:04:00 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] SPEEDWEEK
Message-ID: <46C796FF.000003.04012@TOM>

HELLO TO ALL:

 Got home yesterday at 5PM. Had a good week, saw several old friends,
learned a few things... Made our  best  run since 2004 @ 234 mph which would
have been great five years ago, but not up to expectations this year.. Last
run was not good. Spun a bearing, broke a rod, (too much alky in the oil I
suspect) major repairs needed in the next 3 weeks. I will fill you in on the
details later.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_pets_cat1_en.gif]

From David.Freiburger at primedia.com  Sat Aug 18 20:53:55 2007
From: David.Freiburger at primedia.com (Freiburger, David)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:53:55 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
References: <c46.1bf1f178.33f8ba01@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AF861B2175084742B5036EF0A13B88CF03BF59D4@PDGEVS01.primedia.prm>

Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a  vehicle in
the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned  event, the
vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing  season".

My copy of the rule book says the same thing. But it does not say that a car
that competes in non-Classic categories must remain non-Classic all year. The
HRM Spl. did not compete at any SCTA-BNI sanctioned event  prior to Speed
Week. The first two classes we entered at Speed Week were in Comp Coupe. We
then changed out of Comp Coupe by removing the belly pan (see '07 rule book
page 59) and into the Classic Altered classes.

The rule was designed so that cars could not compete in Gas Coupe and Classic
Gas Coupe, in Gas Altered and Classic Gas Altered, and so on. There is no
class for Classic Comp Coupe.

We didn't find it a hollow victory to run 225-plus mph on ten consecutive
passes, or to set two out of five new records that would have qualified for
red hats, but your opinion may vary.

DF


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+david.freiburger=primedia.com at autox.team.net on
behalf of Askotto at aol.com
Sent: Sat 8/18/2007 4:09 PM
To: saltfever at comcast.net
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car

In a message dated 8/18/2007 2:09:51 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
saltfever at comcast.net writes:

I don't  see how that is possible, Otto.  From the very conception of  the
Classis Class there has been a rule preventing the changing out of  that
class within the year. Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a  vehicle in
the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned  event, the
vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing  season".

From webmaster at landracing.com  Sat Aug 18 21:50:02 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:50:02 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
In-Reply-To: <AF861B2175084742B5036EF0A13B88CF03BF59D4@PDGEVS01.primedia.prm>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEOEMPDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

I think its a very noble effort, with the speeds to show... Like I said on
the Landracing.com forum, they went fast, went into multiple catagories and
went very fast... I just hope there arent rules written to prevent it in
future... Great job Dave it was a pleasure to see it all happen... Great job
again. 5 records....


Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Freiburger, David
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 8:54 PM
To: Askotto at aol.com; saltfever at comcast.net
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car


Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a  vehicle in
the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned  event, the
vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing  season".

My copy of the rule book says the same thing. But it does not say that a car
that competes in non-Classic categories must remain non-Classic all year.
The
HRM Spl. did not compete at any SCTA-BNI sanctioned event  prior to Speed
Week. The first two classes we entered at Speed Week were in Comp Coupe. We
then changed out of Comp Coupe by removing the belly pan (see '07 rule book
page 59) and into the Classic Altered classes.

The rule was designed so that cars could not compete in Gas Coupe and
Classic
Gas Coupe, in Gas Altered and Classic Gas Altered, and so on. There is no
class for Classic Comp Coupe.

We didn't find it a hollow victory to run 225-plus mph on ten consecutive
passes, or to set two out of five new records that would have qualified for
red hats, but your opinion may vary.

DF


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+david.freiburger=primedia.com at autox.team.net on
behalf of Askotto at aol.com
Sent: Sat 8/18/2007 4:09 PM
To: saltfever at comcast.net
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car

In a message dated 8/18/2007 2:09:51 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
saltfever at comcast.net writes:

I don't  see how that is possible, Otto.  From the very conception of  the
Classis Class there has been a rule preventing the changing out of  that
class within the year. Page, 57 of '07 rule books states, "Once a  vehicle
in
the Classic Category has competed in an SCTA-BNI sanctioned  event, the
vehicle MUST REMAIN in that category for the current racing  season".
_______________________________________________
webmaster at landracing.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sat Aug 18 22:25:28 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:25:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
References: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEOEMPDFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>
Message-ID: <000801c7e218$f99ae940$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

So KT and friends set a bunch of records. What's the harm? IMHO the whole 
"Classic" category is a classic boondoggle of the first magnitude anyway. I 
hope that someday it is expunged from the rules completely.   RF
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Amo" <webmaster at landracing.com>
To: "Freiburger, David" <David.Freiburger at primedia.com>; <Askotto at aol.com>; 
<saltfever at comcast.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car


>I think its a very noble effort, with the speeds to show... Like I said on
> the Landracing.com forum, they went fast, went into multiple catagories 
> and
> went very fast... I just hope there arent rules written to prevent it in
> future... Great job Dave it was a pleasure to see it all happen... Great 
> job
> again. 5 records....
>
>
> Jon 

From saltfever at comcast.net  Sun Aug 19 00:03:11 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:03:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
In-Reply-To: <000801c7e218$f99ae940$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <000001c7e226$9fc263e0$3574a943@dim8100>

Thanks Dick (he was the first to clarify the issue correctly) and all the
others to respond to my original message. It makes sense to me now in the
manner the records were collected. I could care less if a record is hard,
soft, open, or even a 78 or a 45 :-) Anybody that makes those two trips down
the salt, under legal conditions resulting in a record, gets my highest
respect and admiration.   -Elon

From webmaster at landracing.com  Sun Aug 19 00:26:12 2007
From: webmaster at landracing.com (Jon Amo)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:26:12 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
In-Reply-To: <000001c7e226$9fc263e0$3574a943@dim8100>
Message-ID: <LAEPJFHLDPAFPIMKHBAEOENADFAA.webmaster@landracing.com>

THis takes me to another question. The rule book states "Competed in a
SCTA-BNI event", so could they goto a USFRA event and run another class,
like back to anything but classic catagory.... They just use same rule book
but it says SCTA-BNI event... the USFRA event is different just use same
record book.

Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+webmaster=landracing.com at autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of 3 liter
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 12:03 AM
To: 'Rich Fox'; 'Freiburger, David'; Askotto at aol.com
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car


Thanks Dick (he was the first to clarify the issue correctly) and all the
others to respond to my original message. It makes sense to me now in the
manner the records were collected. I could care less if a record is hard,
soft, open, or even a 78 or a 45 :-) Anybody that makes those two trips down
the salt, under legal conditions resulting in a record, gets my highest
respect and admiration.   -Elon
_______________________________________________
webmaster at landracing.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 00:48:16 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 02:48:16 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
Message-ID: <d48.f07d7e4.33f941b0@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/18/2007 8:54:08 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
David.Freiburger at primedia.com writes:

We  didn't find it a hollow victory to run 225-plus mph on ten consecutive 
passes,  or to set two out of five new records that would have qualified for red 
hats,  but your opinion may vary.

DF





Hi David
 
OK, hollow victory is a bad term and besides, like I said, I was jealous I  
wasn't out there doing it myself, said it was a heck of an  accomplishment and 
wished you luck. 
 
I guess what I was trying to say is there are racers out there that put  
their heart and sole into there cars trying to set records and they never reach  
that point. Some racers come out year after year before finally setting the new 
 record. That has to be a tremendous accomplishment to these racers. 
 
On the other hand, having someone hop into someone else's car,  make two runs 
and go home with a record just doesn't seem to be as meaningful,  in my 
opinion... Unless I'm the one doing it, then it's a tremendous  accomplishment! LOL
 
I think it's great you have the HRMS dialed in to "Bracket car" consistency  
on the elusive salt. That in itself is a tremendous accomplishment. You did 
your  aero homework and it shows. The fact that you can seemingly put anybody in 
the  seat and set a record is pretty amazing. I want my turn on the E ticket 
ride!  LOL
 
How come your team didn't score 5 red hats along with the 5 records over  200?
 
Otto



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From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 19 07:02:54 2007
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:02:54 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise (NON-LSR)
Message-ID: <45ac72e90708190602g6c58e589ie2db6e5b0bbacede@mail.gmail.com>

Here are  some photos. Click on the slideshow button for best viewing.

Bob Denton

http://picasaweb.google.com/rjdenton479/WoodwardAvenueDreamCruise2007

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Aug 19 07:56:34 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 06:56:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise (NON-LSR)
References: <45ac72e90708190602g6c58e589ie2db6e5b0bbacede@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002101c7e268$c11bf6e0$6400a8c0@Dale>

great slide show
dale
ssuunnyy and going to 99+ in pahrump
mabe work on car

Subject: [Land-speed] Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise (NON-LSR)


> Here are  some photos. Click on the slideshow button for best viewing.
> 
> Bob Denton
> 
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rjdenton479/WoodwardAvenueDreamCruise2007

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Aug 19 08:00:25 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 07:00:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Back to Bonneville with a record roar - Times Online
Message-ID: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/article2
277715.ece

The Brits are coming for the big one
dale
ssuunnyy and talking to the dog

From neil at dbelltech.com  Sun Aug 19 10:08:39 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:08:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Back to Bonneville with a record roar - Times
 Online
In-Reply-To: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <000801c7e27b$35073cb0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Dale;

This fits in with what Andy Green told me last week-- yes, he was there at
Speedweek but not with the JCB team. He said that Goodyear already had the
high speed tires (tyres?) and were taking data on tire pressure vs traction
on the salt. Maybe you saw the Goodyear truck off the far end of the pits;
they were running an instrumented vehicle around an oval course to collect
data.

Next year should be interesting!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Dale H Pulju
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:00 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Back to Bonneville with a record roar - Times Online

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/article
2277715.ece


The Brits are coming for the big one
dale
ssuunnyy and talking to the dog
_______________________________________________

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 19 10:14:48 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:14:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car #1
In-Reply-To: <d48.f07d7e4.33f941b0@aol.com>
References: <d48.f07d7e4.33f941b0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <c49a8fe62061f04be9e54657e1567401@comcast.net>

If you take two weeks of long hours assembling an engine for a specific 
class and then run it on the salt in a proven car I don't see that to 
be a hollow victory.  I'd be more inclined to say congratulations to 
Dave.  If you want to start on open records and soft speeds you may as 
well go back to the sixties rule book as well when classes were split 
and records retired to give an advantage to "friends".  Check out the 
records Wilford Day set as an example.  Ford funneled a bunch of money 
to some shops to try and break those records and they never succeeded.

I have been friends with Don West since 1951 when I first met him on 
the salt.  I was delighted to find he lived fifteen miles from my home. 
  Over the years he has run a flathead n a '32 Ford coupe (and I was 
happy when he hit 120), among others he built a belly tank lakester 
that ran on the salt, a Chrysler powered '53 Studebaker that actually 
was the first door-slammer over 200, a Corvair with the supercharged 
Chrysler tucked under the windshield and a Firebird with the Chrysler 
power.  After over thirty five years of trying and one "incident" that 
banged him up pretty well he finally got a red hat at a 247 average in 
a Firebird.  He put the car away for years but after the Classic class 
was defined he freshened it up and his son Marty set a record in the 
class at over 260 mph after a couple of frustrating years trying to go 
over 200 in a Monza.  Again I was happy for him.  The car was on the 
Speedweek tee shirt a year ago.  Unfortunately Marty and his brother 
died within a month of each other just over a year ago.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 19 10:15:54 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:15:54 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car #2
In-Reply-To: <d48.f07d7e4.33f941b0@aol.com>
References: <d48.f07d7e4.33f941b0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <41902b097dac60406e4eb88723013c27@comcast.net>

This is a long way of saying that if you take a car that fits in the 
class and run over an existing record because the car has been proven 
and you can get the power to the salt, there's nothing wrong with the 
record you set.  There's a lot of red hats that are the result of 
finding the right record to run on ... some in a class that didn't 
exist the year or two before.  There's nothing wrong with that as long 
as they go the speeds necessary to qualify and qualify under the rules. 
  The 2Club minimums are designed to deny red hats to those who are not 
running as fast as the class really requires.

Wes

On Aug 19, 2007, at 12:48 AM, Askotto at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/18/2007 8:54:08 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> David.Freiburger at primedia.com writes:
>
> We  didn't find it a hollow victory to run 225-plus mph on ten 
> consecutive
> passes,  or to set two out of five new records that would have 
> qualified for red
> hats,  but your opinion may vary.
>
> DF

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Aug 19 10:17:29 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:17:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Back to Bonneville with a record roar - Times
 Online
In-Reply-To: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <46C86D19.8060608@mayfco.com>

This just drive me bat sh*t...

Its an enormous challenge and a great opportunity to show the world 
what British design and engineering skill can achieve, Green said.

And oh, 10s ofl milions of dollars (or pounds). Why do wenot compare the 
dollars for the Vesco car and say BUrklands efforts with that of the 
Dieselmax efforts.. Hell, even I could build a car with that amount of 
money..

mayf

Dale H Pulju wrote:

>http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/article2
>277715.ece
>
>The Brits are coming for the big one
>dale
>ssuunnyy and talking to the dog
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 19 10:26:35 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:26:35 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Back to Bonneville with a record roar - Times
 Online
In-Reply-To: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <1d680e9a3b5ce1850fea61d455b2d86f@comcast.net>

Funny, my GPS was saying the altitude was some 1500 feet lower than  
6,000.  Rick Gold and I had a chat about it.

I hope we have the salt for a good course to see the Diesel Max and  
Burklands both run their best.  Then there's Marlo's Target 550 new car  
just about ready for testing.

Wes

On Aug 19, 2007, at 8:00 AM, Dale H Pulju wrote:

> http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/ 
> article2
> 277715.ece
>
> The Brits are coming for the big one
> dale
> ssuunnyy and talking to the dog
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Aug 19 10:37:41 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:37:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr money
Message-ID: <000801c7e27f$4359c8b0$6400a8c0@Dale>

money does not buy success in lsr racing, just look at history of busts on the
salt
dale
wish I had some though

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 19 10:38:42 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:38:42 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Back to Bonneville with a record roar - Times
 Online
In-Reply-To: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <2a6e3772fda4c75e8bbd42d8ad1367d3@comcast.net>

For another opinion on bio-fuels ...  
http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn12496-forget-biofuels-- 
burn-oil-and-plant-forests-instead.html

Wes

On Aug 19, 2007, at 8:00 AM, Dale H Pulju wrote:

> http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/ 
> article2
> 277715.ece
>
> The Brits are coming for the big one
> dale
> ssuunnyy and talking to the dog
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Sun Aug 19 11:03:21 2007
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:03:21 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Back to Bonneville with a record roar - Times
 Online
Message-ID: <12332649.1187543001128.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml24.mgt.cox.net>

I've always thought the altitude (msl) was  4500"  but according to a couple of websites, it apparently  averages 4320" msl (give or take a few inches of scraped salt or surface  water)    Mark C   42 feet below sea level in the Dismal Swamp..

---- Wester Potter <wester6935 at comcast.net> wrote: 
> Funny, my GPS was saying the altitude was some 1500 feet lower than  
> 6,000.  Rick Gold and I had a chat about it.
> 
> I hope we have the salt for a good course to see the Diesel Max and  
> Burklands both run their best.  Then there's Marlo's Target 550 new car  
> just about ready for testing.
> 
> Wes
> 
> On Aug 19, 2007, at 8:00 AM, Dale H Pulju wrote:
> 
> > http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/ 
> > article2
> > 277715.ece
> >
> > The Brits are coming for the big one
> > dale
> > ssuunnyy and talking to the dog
> > _______________________________________________
> > wester6935 at comcast.net
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> ifixmgs at cox.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 11:58:47 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:58:47 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Face it, a record is a record, in your eyes, not mine
Message-ID: <c1b.1d325d87.33f9ded7@aol.com>

OK, I admit that a record is a record. When it's in the book a record  
holders name that only made two pass' on a soft record in a borrowed car looks  just 
like the name of a racer who may have designed and built his car from  
scratch and may have thousands of hours of knuckle breaking in the car and  many 
trips to the salt to get their name in the book, compared to the  "two pass 
wonder".
 
To everybody that responded but me, that's just fine. Even though I praised  
DF's team in every way for their accomplishments of getting the bracket racer  
brick down the salt safely for 10 pass', their cherry pickin records didn't  
impress me as much, that's all.
 
The only difference is my opinion of what a record "should stand for"  
compared to apparently "everybody" else.
 
Try and pop 4 different drivers in a C class car and see if they can break  5 
different class records in 10 runs!!! Do you see the difference? It would  be 
nearly impossible. But take soft or open records in the AA class and it  
"appears" to be a relative piece of cake. That should light up the  list!!!!
 
I hold the C/GL record in Texas at 196.703. Woopie. It doesn't mean a thing  
to me because I'm the only C/GL to ever run Texas. I set the record on an 
"open  record" so it means nothing to me. If I ran 60 mph, I would still hold the  
record.
 
On the other hand, I was extremely pleased with my first ever LSR  experience 
in a car I designed, built and drive myself. I have gone over 222 in  it 
which is an accomplishment, I am told. I still haven't hit my personal goal  of 
250. Maybe next year, If I live through the bypass surgery!!! LOL
 
But like I said, my "record" doesn't mean squat to me. Just a different  
level of discrimination on records.
 
To me a record has to mean something to get my respect.
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 12:20:59 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:20:59 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Face it, a record is a record, in your eyes,
 not mine
Message-ID: <d1e.e7e23cc.33f9e40b@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/19/2007 2:02:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
Askotto at aol.com writes:

I hold  the C/GL record in Texas at 196.703. Woopie. It doesn't mean a thing  
 
to me because I'm the only C/GL to ever run Texas. I set the record on an  
"open  record" so it means nothing to me. If I ran 60 mph, I would  still 
hold the  
record.



The Bonneville record for C/GL is 272.371 set at Speedweek 2004 by  
C.R.Markley. The rule of thumb for one mile tracks like Goliad or Maxton is  about 20% 
faster on the Salt due to the longer run-up. Your personal best of 196  puts 
you under that record at 240ish, which is still fine for a first timer. 
Bottom line, what ever floats your boat, gets you through the night, or  
makes you happy is what most LSR types strive for. All the guys with  multiple 
records with the exact same car could make the same argument in reverse  as to 
why you don't take advantage of the duplicity of the rules. I call it  
horizontal competition, and my personal preference is to either go to a larger  engine, 
fuel or Aero stuff, as in vertical advancement.
But first I got to go there and back up what I say I can do, like KT and  the 
Sunshine Bananas did, many times.....with a push rod Brick, yet...
Bob, trying hard for WOS, W 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Aug 19 12:32:37 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:32:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Records Accomplishment
Message-ID: <17FE04F938954603A38891DCC548CFB8@LMS>

Think what you may!!!!!!!

Getting any car down a track that varied as much as this weeks --10 times at
between 225 and 260  is one Hell of an accomplishment----I can only say-- I
will consider it a MAJOR accomplishment!!!!
Accomplishments like that are not easy to come by!!!!!   IT may have helped
some that they didn't have to run flat out----but the car got down the track
each time----that is for sure more than I can say!!!!

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE HRM CREW!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From rbuck at xmission.com  Sun Aug 19 12:56:36 2007
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:56:36 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Back to Bonneville with a record roar - Times
 Online
In-Reply-To: <46C86D19.8060608@mayfco.com>
References: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale> <46C86D19.8060608@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070819125222.03706858@xmission.com>

I think I could arrange a fair assault on the WLSR if I had a 
personal net worth of over 10 Billion Pounds.  My hat's off to the 
folks who set records in ANY class with far less resources.

Ray the Rat
(Really missed being at Speed Week)


At 10:17 AM 08/19/2007, drmayf wrote:
>This just drive me bat sh*t...
>
>Its an enormous challenge and a great opportunity to show the world
>what British design and engineering skill can achieve,Green said.
>
>And oh, 10s ofl milions of dollars (or pounds). Why do wenot compare the
>dollars for the Vesco car and say BUrklands efforts with that of the
>Dieselmax efforts.. Hell, even I could build a car with that amount of
>money..
>
>mayf
>
>Dale H Pulju wrote:
>
> >http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/feature 
> s/article2
> >277715.ece
> >
> >The Brits are coming for the big one
> >dale
> >ssuunnyy and talking to the dog
> >_______________________________________________
> >drmayf at mayfco.com
> >
> >Land-speed mailing list
> >
> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>_______________________________________________
>rbuck at xmission.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 13:46:54 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:46:54 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] What's the true "meaning" of  LSR to you?
Message-ID: <c2d.185abbd7.33f9f82e@aol.com>

When I entered LSR 3 years ago, I jumped in with both feet and built a  C/GL. 
The reason I picked C class is I like a challenge. I looked at the records  
in the various class' and realized the A and AA records were open or soft  but 
that didn't attract me at all. Ever since I saw "the original" Charley  
Markley in Hot Rod Mag in 63, I have been inspired to build a lakester. As I  
followed the LSR sport through the years in the pages of Hot Rod, I saw the  
dedication of the racers to come out year after year chasing the elusive records  and 
striving to make their cars go faster every year. Achieving the personal  
goal to make your car go as fast as you can attracted me. If you break a record  
along the way, more power to you. To me, that's what LSR is all about.
 
On the other hand, there is another school of thought that LSR is all about  
just getting the red hat and into the record books. Screw improving your last  
runs in the true LSR tradition. Just play the rules and become a hero. The 
more  records you hold in as many venues as you possibly can, the happier you 
are.  That's fine and good!!!  That's a great accomplishment in any body's book. 
 Plenty of racers do the same thing. Nothing wrong with that at all, just 
like  there's nothing wrong with "Trailer Queens".....
 
Of course I've sealed my fate of my life long dream of ever  getting my F.I. 
57 Bel Air or any of my other cars in Hot Rod mag but I'm a man  of principal. 
Sorry David and the rest of the list, your team record spree  doesn't mean a 
whole hella of a lot to me. Apparently I'm the only looser  who feels that way 
but that's fine with me.
 
My "problem" is I'm one of those die hard motor heads that do EVERYTHING on  
ALL of my hot rods. Nobody but me touch's any of my cars and I have plenty. 
That  immediately puts me on the "attack" with "Plug and play" racers. I treat  
them like Dahlgren treats me!!! LOL 
 
Am I unconsciously competing for the list "Asshole of the year" award???  
How'm I doing? LOL
 
 
The forever blackballed
Otto
 
 
 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Aug 19 14:13:02 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:13:02 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] What's the true "meaning" of  LSR to you?
References: <c2d.185abbd7.33f9f82e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000401c7e29d$58f347f0$6401a8c0@Glens>

WE took a vote and counted yours OTTO, you are NUMBER ONE. LOL
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Askotto at aol.com>
To: <David.Freiburger at primedia.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 1:46 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] What's the true "meaning" of LSR to you?


> When I entered LSR 3 years ago, I jumped in with both feet and built a 
> C/GL.
> The reason I picked C class is I like a challenge. I looked at the records
> in the various class' and realized the A and AA records were open or soft 
> but
> that didn't attract me at all. Ever since I saw "the original" Charley
> Markley in Hot Rod Mag in 63, I have been inspired to build a lakester. As 
> I
> followed the LSR sport through the years in the pages of Hot Rod, I saw 
> the
> dedication of the racers to come out year after year chasing the elusive 
> records  and
> striving to make their cars go faster every year. Achieving the personal
> goal to make your car go as fast as you can attracted me. If you break a 
> record
> along the way, more power to you. To me, that's what LSR is all about.
>
> On the other hand, there is another school of thought that LSR is all 
> about
> just getting the red hat and into the record books. Screw improving your 
> last
> runs in the true LSR tradition. Just play the rules and become a hero. The
> more  records you hold in as many venues as you possibly can, the happier 
> you
> are.  That's fine and good!!!  That's a great accomplishment in any body's 
> book.
> Plenty of racers do the same thing. Nothing wrong with that at all, just
> like  there's nothing wrong with "Trailer Queens".....
>
> Of course I've sealed my fate of my life long dream of ever  getting my 
> F.I.
> 57 Bel Air or any of my other cars in Hot Rod mag but I'm a man  of 
> principal.
> Sorry David and the rest of the list, your team record spree  doesn't mean 
> a
> whole hella of a lot to me. Apparently I'm the only looser  who feels that 
> way
> but that's fine with me.
>
> My "problem" is I'm one of those die hard motor heads that do EVERYTHING 
> on
> ALL of my hot rods. Nobody but me touch's any of my cars and I have 
> plenty.
> That  immediately puts me on the "attack" with "Plug and play" racers. I 
> treat
> them like Dahlgren treats me!!! LOL
>
> Am I unconsciously competing for the list "Asshole of the year" award???
> How'm I doing? LOL
>
>
> The forever blackballed
> Otto
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL 
> at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 14:23:06 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:23:06 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Records Accomplishment
Message-ID: <cdb.153113fd.33fa00aa@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/19/2007 12:32:52 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
sparky.2211 at cox.net writes:

Think  what you may!!!!!!!




Thanks Spark, I do. 
 
I not only think it, I say it. You know that about me since the first time  
we met. I was ready to quit LSR after you told me the SCTA horror tales. 
 
Ok, to you feathering a "rent-a-car" to a soft record is a miraculous feat.  
To me it's not such a big deal. Just two opinions from two different  people.
 
I did praise them for getting the car down the track consistently with  
different drivers at those speeds but you apparently missed that part, like  most 
others who responded to the list did. No problem. Some people look at the  
positive things in life and others only look for the negative. I'm glad I'm a  
positive person in life even if you don't think so.
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 14:29:52 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:29:52 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] What's the true "meaning" of  LSR to you?
Message-ID: <cf6.1705bdc0.33fa0240@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/19/2007 2:13:10 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

WE took  a vote and counted yours OTTO, you are NUMBER ONE.  LOL
GB




Hi Glen
 
Well thank god I'm first at something. I was beginning to think I was  
hopeless at everything!!!
 
Otto



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From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Aug 19 14:30:12 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:30:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr to rich fox
Message-ID: <008701c7e29f$beffc8a0$6400a8c0@Dale>

Rich Fox I need your email address.
dale
trying to get to shop to clean up

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sun Aug 19 14:42:09 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:42:09 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] What's the true "meaning" of  LSR to you?
In-Reply-To: <cf6.1705bdc0.33fa0240@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001101c7e2a1$6a8fa7c0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

ROTFLMAO.. Dave.

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Askotto at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 4:30 PM
To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] What's the true "meaning" of LSR to you?


In a message dated 8/19/2007 2:13:10 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

WE took  a vote and counted yours OTTO, you are NUMBER ONE.  LOL GB




Hi Glen


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date:
8/17/2007 5:43 PM

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 15:30:59 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 17:30:59 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] What's the true "meaning" of  LSR to you?
Message-ID: <d1b.11b4331d.33fa1093@aol.com>

-----Original Message-----
From:  land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net]  On Behalf
Of Askotto at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 4:30 PM
To:  speedtimer at beyondbb.com
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re:  [Land-speed] What's the true "meaning" of LSR to you?


In a message  dated 8/19/2007 2:13:10 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,   
speedtimer at beyondbb.com writes:

WE took  a vote and counted  yours OTTO, you are NUMBER ONE.  LOL GB





In a message dated 8/19/2007 2:42:25 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
ddahlgren at snet.net writes:

ROTFLMAO.. Dave.
 
 



Dave,,, buddy, think about it...
 
You have been reduced to a the second place list Asshole.
 
You hate being second in anything!!!! 
 
It eats at you,,, bad!!!
 
Now I'm ROTFLMAO,,, what ever that means. I hope it's not something  dirty!!!
 
Otto



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From b.a.savage at wildblue.net  Sun Aug 19 17:17:43 2007
From: b.a.savage at wildblue.net (Bryan Savage)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:17:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Back to Bonneville with a record roar - Times
 Online
In-Reply-To: <1d680e9a3b5ce1850fea61d455b2d86f@comcast.net>
References: <000501c7e269$4b0e99c0$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<1d680e9a3b5ce1850fea61d455b2d86f@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46C8CF97.70502@wildblue.net>

Wes,
My information said it's 4216 feet about where the starting line is. 
About 10 miles
toward Floating Mountain it's 3-4 feet higher so everyone is running uphill.
Ricks instrument's measure Density Altitude etc.


Mayf,
I've seen big money (Honda & GM) show up at Bonneville and after a week
of trying, look rather silly. The young  JCB folks I talked to should do 
well.
They all were smart enough to understand that they were in an alien
environment that had  unusual requirements. Honda & GM both thought
they knew a lot more than those amateur Hot Rodders.
They were fun to watch.

Bryan
Does anyone know if Goodyear will sell the JCB tyres?




Wester Potter wrote:
> Funny, my GPS was saying the altitude was some 1500 feet lower than  
> 6,000.  Rick Gold and I had a chat about it.

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Aug 19 18:47:39 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 17:47:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Deseret Morning News | Salt & Speed: Record number of
 entries test Bonneville's flats
Message-ID: <000501c7e2c3$b71dc4b0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://deseretnews.com:80/article/1,5143,695201087,00.html

more stories of people going to Bonneville
dale
done for the day in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Aug 19 18:58:49 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 17:58:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] gsjones: A Stranger in Paradise
Message-ID: <000501c7e2c5$4679f1a0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://gsjones.livejournal.com:80/100838.html

the ramblings of a newcomer to lsr racing
dale
going to dinner

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Aug 19 19:00:53 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:00:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 608---record holder
Message-ID: <A32107E2B2C1443D99E4EC00DF6E5477@LMS>

My apologies to the 608 team----my senior memory could not rember the number
between web-sites---sorry !!!!!!!!

  Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 19 20:02:38 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:02:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
References: <d48.f07d7e4.33f941b0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006001c7e2ce$33812330$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

I believe all of you see what you want to see. Dave came prepaired, had a 
plan, and did what he hoped would happened. He, or they, as the case may be, 
did not sell "hats" into the 2 club. The car set records that are 
attainanable by anyone wishing to do it. My reason for this is a "C" blown 
pickup, right I said pickup truck, went 248+ now that's a number to shoot at 
in a brick...Dave's engine is a AA.

Why your all complaining why don't you aim at Irene Hanchard. She set 3 
records all at less than 100 mph. I can guarentee that her smile was as big 
as Dave's. How about 8 Scott Guthrie entrie's with records? Paul Friebus 
with 4 on one M/C? I'm the luckiest one of the bunch by working impounds. I 
get to see all of this.

A friend of mine comes with a AA/GMR with a  record of 255. He runs over 
220. AA/FMR is open and he won't run on it for a "cheap" record. We all make 
choices. One of HR mag car records was a 95mph when he got there. Now it's 
where it belongs

My son and I feel very privilaged to do what we do. At 6:15 am Monday 
morning while we were in impounds warming our engine for a return run. I saw 
Dave came by with his camera. I stepped back, said nothing, he took a few 
pictures, and when he was done left to go back to his warming car or take 
additional pictures. Later in the week he came by our pit to ask some 
question about our carburated GMC. He had no idea it was mine. He ask about 
it concentrating on an article idea he has in mind. He talked to Patrick, as 
I was once again measuring engines in impounds. If it's used, we will be the 
fortunate ones.

 In 2002 when we were the first to take a vintage engine over 200 mph in a 
high-boy roadster and set a record  no one cared accept the people who 
wanted to be the fist ones and those who wanted to beat us. You would think 
there would have been some coverage somewhere but there wasn't. I'm not out 
promoting what I do and would never do that like others who come on to LSR. 
Peer recognition and a little respect for doing it is all I need and Joe 
Fontana, Patrick, and I recieved that.

Congrats Dave and all who helped you
-
-
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Askotto at aol.com>
To: <David.Freiburger at primedia.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car


> In a message dated 8/18/2007 8:54:08 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> David.Freiburger at primedia.com writes:
>
> We  didn't find it a hollow victory to run 225-plus mph on ten consecutive
> passes,  or to set two out of five new records that would have qualified 
> for red
> hats,  but your opinion may vary.
>
> DF

From kturk at ala.net  Sun Aug 19 22:07:41 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:07:41 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
References: <d48.f07d7e4.33f941b0@aol.com>
	<006001c7e2ce$33812330$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <012a01c7e2df$a7670740$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Okay guys...  Wait a dang minute here...

Nobody got a new red hat... All 4 of us already had them !!!  We're just 
racers... in other words we didn't just show up one year and cherry pick a 
few records... and never come back...  This was my tenth year on the salt. 
All of us love the salt and the challange it provides.

David built this motor with his own hands... and money,   Tonya and I flew 
out and installed it with David's help  ( you try that in someone else's 
shop)...  Steve killed himself all week thrashing on the car...

I'd built the belly pan in 2002... so the car could compete in the Comp 
Coupe Class... David sorted out the avalible records both in Comp coupe and 
Altered...  Sure some had no or low records...  We fixed that... if you have 
something faster... go fix them again. ( bring a race car... )

You want heroic?  how bout you take your 8 to 1 Compression Big block and 
run it without the blower on Nitrous and beat our 252mph record...  By the 
way that was our own record at 249mph that we upped to 252mph.

All and all.... it was an incredible week... and Nothing anyone can say will 
ever take back the feelings we all have over the real accomplishment of 
it...

Keith ( something about sticking that in your pipe and smoking it ) 

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 23:12:32 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:12:32 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
Message-ID: <d2e.e740789.33fa7cc0@aol.com>

Hi Keith
 
I pulled this from the e-mail "that started it all".
 
In a message dated 8/19/2007 12:48:16 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, Askotto  
writes:

I think it's great you have the HRMS dialed in to "Bracket car"  consistency 
on the elusive salt. That in itself is a tremendous  accomplishment. You did 
your aero homework and it shows. The fact that you can  seemingly put anybody 
in the seat and set a record is pretty amazing. I want  my turn on the E ticket 
ride! LOL

 
 
Somehow EVERYBODY missed that paragraph. 
 
So get it straight, I have total respect for the HRMS's accomplishments on  
the salt. But, in my opinion, the record setting spree was a hollow victory  
because they were mostly on soft or open records. Just like my 197 record at the 
 Texas mile. It means nothing to me because it was an open record. People 
have  different "values" for things, plain and simple. What's the big deal?
 
As usual when I start an LSR powder keg like this one, there are vocal  
opponents that tell everybody on the list how wrong I am. That's fine,  everybody 
get's their own opinion, except me! LOL.
 
You know how there are two sides to a coin?
 
As usual, I get more support on the subject from listers,,, off list  of 
course! Many of them are not the usual lurker but listers who flap their  jaws 
regularly on the list but unlike me, they are afraid to say it. You  may find 
this impossible to believe but there are a lot of racers who  think your record 
setting spree was a mockery to the SCTA records and an  insult to some record 
holders, just like I did. 
 
Otto

 



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From kturk at ala.net  Sun Aug 19 23:17:22 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:17:22 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
References: <d2e.e740789.33fa7cc0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <014801c7e2e9$63e751f0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Which side of your mouth am I supposed to believe?

That our accomplishments were good or hollow?

Having a bit of trouble with that one Otto...

Keith

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 23:58:17 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:58:17 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
Message-ID: <cb4.18ffab95.33fa8779@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/19/2007 11:17:29 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
kturk at ala.net writes:

Which  side of your mouth am I supposed to believe?

That our accomplishments  were good or hollow?

Having a bit of trouble with that one  Otto...

Keith




Hi Keith
 
That's easy, you can believe both sides of my mouth because both sides  
spoke. The accomplishments were good and hollow! I'll try to explain.  I'll type 
slowly! LOL
 
Respecting how the car performed on the salt is one thing. It went down  
track and never skipped a beat. It's stable and very fast. The drivers were  
skilled as were their mechanical abilities. I respect all of that and never  
challenged it! Are we together so far? That's the "good" side of my mouth.
 
On the other hand, I wasn't as impressed that your entire, well planned out  
and executed goal, was to break as many open or soft records as humanely  
possible. That was the original goal of the car as I recall in David's  original 
editorial in Hot Rod on the birth of the Camaro. Nothing wrong  with that. 
 
Unlike your team's goals, I'm not a cherry picker. I like a challenge.  
Always have, always will. I see no inner reward to me, the only person I have to  
impress, by setting an open or soft record. 
 
Just two schools of thought and two levels of personal integrity.
 
Otto
 
 



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From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Aug 20 02:24:45 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:24:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Soft Records
Message-ID: <D5A5E7FD63114902BEE10C7F3A660165@LMS>

Otto,
I guess that I am one of those "soft record" no interigity guys you refer to!
When I started in 00 as an engine partner in Skips car there were open records
in all four AA special construction classes.  I was a driver in 01 and we
posted SOFT records of 262.AA/FL l and 267 AA/GL. Now these records wre so
soft----both were below the min. of the 2 club of 280 and 270 that the gas
record has been run on for nearly ever year since and the 608 car who was in
qualifying inpound 4 times this meet before being succesfull by raising the
record 4mph...

Otto, for the life of me I don't understand where you are comming from other
than to vent---sometimes you talk not only from both sides of your mouth but
also your lower body orfice---it dosent become you and does not do JUSTCIE to
the person I thought I found you to be in person.

If you stay in LSR and choose to become other than a one meet ATHOURITY---I
suspect that you will come to respect just what an accomplishment it is to get
that car dialed in as you so stated and to be able to get it down the track on
so many back to back runs.

I know I am having my problems geting my car "dialed in" on the track
conditions we raced on---I am learnig why so many high hp, higher speed cars
have weight and or wings. My goal is to have my Lakester as dialed in as the
HRM and the 608 were this meet.---I should be so lucky----but I do have one
good pass in it and as I continue to make changes as suggested and in some
cases "required"---I will be able to run as my runs as the 608 and the HRM did
this week!!!!!

My hats off to you guys--- thanks for showing what planning and presistance
can do!!!!!!!!

      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From kturk at ala.net  Mon Aug 20 06:21:46 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:21:46 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
References: <cb4.18ffab95.33fa8779@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002501c7e324$ad429c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Otto to prove your point... you just need to establish a record faster then 
any of the records we've ever set with either car in any class...

I think the slowest record we hold is around 225...

Drop me a line when you accomplish that so I can congradulate you...

K 

From td at twinjugs.com  Mon Aug 20 07:43:12 2007
From: td at twinjugs.com (Todd)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:43:12 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Most    prolific record setting car
In-Reply-To: <cb4.18ffab95.33fa8779@aol.com>
References: <cb4.18ffab95.33fa8779@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20070820132058.M6285@twinjugs.com>

> I like a challenge.

Then here's your challenge. Build a Camaro to do a two way 250mph average on 
the salt flats - report back when you realize how tough it is or you complete 
so EASILY.

The speeds I've run on the east coast in my class are certainly nothing 
outstanding and I've picked lower records to run on in the past also(mainly 
as it raises the bar of the whole class). There's other's running in those 
classes too. And there's a thing or two as well as a few people that we don't 
all agree about or get along with each other, but guess what... I do agree 
with the fact that they are out there and doing it and putting a full effort 
in and making headway at it(no matter how soft the records are or are not). 
They will surely pass my records this year and(again no matter how soft), I 
know how hard and costly it is to show up and make that happen and there's 
many of them that will forever have my respect because of their drive and 
accomplishemnts to date.  

To bitch about something that has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU is really crazy(and 
this from a person that does his share of bitching at times). If you aren't 
contesting the vehicle or the manner it was done in(as in protecting class 
integrity, etc), then your attitude is the last thing this venue needs. To 
those that(supposedly) wrote you privately... speak up or shut up(there's 
more quite ones like you then needed around also).

KT, Tonya and Dave... awesome job as usual. Only thing that would of been 
better is if your goal would of been to specifically irritate Atto. lol
Todd

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Mon Aug 20 07:52:30 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:52:30 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Soft Records
In-Reply-To: <D5A5E7FD63114902BEE10C7F3A660165@LMS>
References: <D5A5E7FD63114902BEE10C7F3A660165@LMS>
Message-ID: <20070820135233.79F5B187A11@autox.team.net>

Hear, Hear!
Skip





At 01:24 AM 8/20/2007, Sparky wrote:
>Otto,
>I guess that I am one of those "soft record" no interigity guys you refer to!
>When I started in 00 as an engine partner in Skips car there were open records
>in all four AA special construction classes.  I was a driver in 01 and we
>posted SOFT records of 262.AA/FL l and 267 AA/GL. Now these records wre so
>soft----both were below the min. of the 2 club of 280 and 270 that the gas
>record has been run on for nearly ever year since and the 608 car who was in
>qualifying inpound 4 times this meet before being succesfull by raising the
>record 4mph...
>
>Otto, for the life of me I don't understand where you are comming from other
>than to vent---sometimes you talk not only from both sides of your mouth but
>also your lower body orfice---it dosent become you and does not do JUSTCIE to
>the person I thought I found you to be in person.
>
>If you stay in LSR and choose to become other than a one meet ATHOURITY---I
>suspect that you will come to respect just what an accomplishment it is to get
>that car dialed in as you so stated and to be able to get it down the track on
>so many back to back runs.
>
>I know I am having my problems geting my car "dialed in" on the track
>conditions we raced on---I am learnig why so many high hp, higher speed cars
>have weight and or wings. My goal is to have my Lakester as dialed in as the
>HRM and the 608 were this meet.---I should be so lucky----but I do have one
>good pass in it and as I continue to make changes as suggested and in some
>cases "required"---I will be able to run as my runs as the 608 and the HRM did
>this week!!!!!
>
>My hats off to you guys--- thanks for showing what planning and presistance
>can do!!!!!!!!
>
>       Sparky
>AA/_ L  2211
>_______________________________________________
>saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 09:05:47 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:05:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car - - Let's change the
	subject
In-Reply-To: <002501c7e324$ad429c20$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <474797.17118.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Speaking of "either car" Keith, what's up with the Berk?  I haven't heard anything about it in quite a while.  In fact, at first, I thought it was the Berk you shipped to Oz until I saw the picture in HRM.
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas

       
---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake. 
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

From kturk at ala.net  Mon Aug 20 09:17:16 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:17:16 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car - - Let's change
 thesubject
References: <474797.17118.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c7e33d$318f17c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

I'm selling the Berkeley...  simply stated... the car has the ability to run 
300mph and I don't have an interest in doing that....   That dang Camaro has 
spoiled me on the "Fun Factor" ...

Trying to run 2 cars at one time is really tough....  that and I don't 
really have room to store it on a long term basis.

I've got several offers so far... so I'm not advertizing it yet...

Keith 

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Aug 20 10:02:52 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:02:52 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Soft Records
References: <D5A5E7FD63114902BEE10C7F3A660165@LMS>
Message-ID: <46C9BB2C.000003.02672@TOM>

Hey let's cool it! Having run on open records and set a few since, I can
tell you that just because a class has an open record doesn't necessarily
result in an easy time of it. In the mid to late eighties we were running on
a open record of 205 mph and having quite rough a time qualifying. Since, we
have inched upward to a 244+ mph record and are now having a rough time
going that fast.

The Salt is a strange place...if anyone thinks that they have a handle on
the tune up for the salt, just wait a while and you will find that it doesn
t work anymore. Most of my problems have been self-inflicted, but I have
great respect for anyone who sets a record at Bonneville, regardless of the
former speed. Just be aware that records are made to be broken.

The key to success at any event is being prepared, I wasn't this year, or
the couple proceeding. I will be ready for the WOS.  Sometimes It takes an
event like our Speedweek to sharpen the senses.  It was expensive, but
educational!

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_pets_cat1_en.gif]

From Askotto at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 10:34:10 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:34:10 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
Message-ID: <c38.1c2233e2.33fb1c82@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/20/2007 6:21:42 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
kturk at ala.net writes:

Otto to  prove your point... you just need to establish a record faster then 
any of  the records we've ever set with either car in any  class...







Hi Keith
 
I don't have to prove anything to anybody but to myself, certainly not  you.
 
What is the big deal if I'm not impressed with setting open/soft  
records?????????????
 
It's just my opinion, get it! I'm entitled to my opinion whether you or  
anybody else "approves" of it.
 
If you think setting cherry pickin records is cool, more power to you. It  
doesn't mean squat to me.
 
Otto



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From kturk at ala.net  Mon Aug 20 10:41:52 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:41:52 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...
Message-ID: <00b101c7e349$03945900$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Tom, you bring up a good point...  rather then let this thing turn into a
mess... lets fix it.

Here's what I'd propose...  each of us oughta take a minute and sort out the
things we did right and wrong and post them....  by sharing our experiences
maybe someone else won't make the same mistake in the future and we'll all
benefit.

I for example didn't bring my trailer and thought I could load my pit set up
in the truck... which we did for the most part... but what we didn't bring was
enough tools... for example I didn't pack my jack and stands... and the one's
David brought were somewhat marginal....  We ended up borrowing a ton more
stuff then we should have... ( I always feel guilty when I borrow more then I
loan )

What we did spot on was establish in advance the goal of swapping the intake
on the salt... After David had done his dyno work on the Blower set up... he
took the time to pull it off and stick on a dominator manifold set up and tune
it on the dyno... so we had a great baseline for that combination to do our
Nitrous runs that last couple of days.  I'd sorted out the Manifold in the hot
rod shop to accept our Nitrous set up and had evaluated all the plumbing and
wiring requirements and had an established plan that actually worked fairly
well.

The one thing we missed was the Progressive nitrous set up.... seems it shut
off after 15 seconds and went into a reset mode...  once again... while
testing this in the pits we found the problem ( good for us )... what we
couldn't do was fix it... so once again we ran with an all or nothing
situation and David had to actuate the Nitrous multiple times before he could
get it totally hooked up and switched on...  ( imagine fanning the button
acting like a progressive controller while running deep into the 250's )

More to follow I'm sure as I remember the whole thing

Tell us what you did right and wrong...

Keith

From MPittwood at compuserve.com  Mon Aug 20 10:49:18 2007
From: MPittwood at compuserve.com (M Pittwood)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:49:18 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] JCB Corporate bid
Message-ID: <200708201249_MC3-1-EAE1-783B@compuserve.com>

Having enjoyed the hospitality of those in Pahrump I would not wish to
upset friends there but I have to say that DrMayf's reaction to the return
of JCB Dieselmax is an aggresive stance to another LSR contender.  A stance
that I would not agree with.  Do not dislike a team just because of the
money pot available and the people involved (numbers and skills).

JCB and Andy hold the SCTA-BNI diesel streamliner class record at over 300
mph and if they return to Speedweek '08 then they will run against their
own record having gone faster on private time in '06.  Are there any 'hot
rod' AA Diesel streamlined cars being assembled to SCTA rules any way?

As far as the outright record speed for wheeldriven speed (458 mph) I am
not sure where the JCB Dieselmax will pick up 100 mph - even with another
gear and two longer runs.  Indeed, only three months ago I was informed
that the car, as designed, would only just reach speeds higher than Al
Teague and Bob Summers and would probably not get near the Tom Burkland
SCTA speed.

Even if the JCB team were to get over 458 mph the Dieselmax, being in a
different category and class, would not 'take away' the FIA record set by
Don Vesco (or its SCTA).  The JCB team may just get the bragging rights to
"the world's fastest wheeldriven vehicle".  It is worth reading Ugo
Fadini's web pages on the wheeldriven (or Automobile) 'World' records.

Many have noted how cubic money and corporate support does not always prove
succesful.  Great Britain was behind the Bluebird CN7 project in 1960 to
1964 and the history books tell us that one car was totalled at Bonneville
before reaching record speeds and then bad track conditions in Australia
limited the final FIA record to "just" 403 mph.  There are many examples of
cubic money that this list has recorded that have not made their goals.
Just remember that this time it is a return visit to the salt - they are
not just coming as a 'one hit wonder' either.  Certainly for many records
the 'hot rodder' can still compete and whatever speed the JCB Dieselmax
reaches then that record, along with Don's 458 mph, can be broken with
persistence and the LSR mentality of most who compete in this field.

JCB team did look good at Bonneville '06 (I read the book but did not
attend) and the results were as they expected.  I am not sure that speeds
in the 450 plus bracket will appear so easy to attain.  But please Mayf
respect what they will try to achieve and look beyond the $millions or
#millions.

Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England

From v4gr at rcn.com  Mon Aug 20 11:01:27 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:01:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Soft Records
References: <D5A5E7FD63114902BEE10C7F3A660165@LMS> <46C9BB2C.000003.02672@TOM>
Message-ID: <001001c7e34b$bfb040c0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

Somebody has to be first. If not there would never be a record. And the 
numbers set were not all that bad by any standard. Some people are happy to 
set a 151 record in AA just to set a record. Prove that they were there. I 
am still waiting to find out who was harmed by the KT & HRM record flurry. 
Only somebody planning on running on a cherry, I guess.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
To: "AA List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Soft Records


> Hey let's cool it! Having run on open records and set a few since, I can
> tell you that just because a class has an open record doesn't necessarily
> result in an easy time of it. In the mid to late eighties we were running 
> on
> a open record of 205 mph and having quite rough a time qualifying. Since, 
> we
> have inched upward to a 244+ mph record and are now having a rough time
> going that fast.
>
> The Salt is a strange place...if anyone thinks that they have a handle on
> the tune up for the salt, just wait a while and you will find that it 
> doesn
> t work anymore. Most of my problems have been self-inflicted, but I have
> great respect for anyone who sets a record at Bonneville, regardless of 
> the
> former speed. Just be aware that records are made to be broken.
>
> The key to success at any event is being prepared, I wasn't this year, or
> the couple proceeding. I will be ready for the WOS.  Sometimes It takes an
> event like our Speedweek to sharpen the senses.  It was expensive, but
> educational!
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC 

From Askotto at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 12:08:26 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:08:26 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Why this list sucks.... Part 1
Message-ID: <cf6.17195c75.33fb329a@aol.com>

Remember when I asked the sac religious question, "Is it true the SCTA  
volunteers get paid?" 
 
Simple question right? What happened? All hell broke loose. First the truth  
was conveniently "omitted" and finally the truth came out that, Yes, the  
volunteers get paid a per diem, lodging and some meals. I was totally in favor  of 
that and voiced that they should get paid more. I never said anything  
negative about the volunteers and have always praised them and thanked them  
personally. My question was answered and I was fine with that. I was done.
 
BUT, what happened??? I and the list was hit with a 5 day barrage of  all the 
things the volunteers do, how much they mean to the sport, how I should  come 
out and volunteer myself before criticizing them. It went on and on and on  
culminating with recommendations I should split because "I'm polluting" the  
list".
 
And for what???? I was totally in favor of paying the volunteers  but 
everybody bitching at me totally missed that part, again.
 
To boot, all of the pollution on the list was from the usual lister's who  
told me how wrong I was. They initiated all of it and bitched at me for  
"causing" it!
 
Why was it a big secret in the first place???? Why was I attacked for  asking 
the question???
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From Askotto at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 12:37:10 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:37:10 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Why this list sucks, part 2
Message-ID: <d53.116cc67a.33fb3956@aol.com>

History repeats itself again.
 
I send an e-mail to the list reporting how many records the HRMS car  set and 
how I was impressed with the cars and teams performance and efforts  getting 
it down the track so reliably.
 
I made another sac religious comment on how I wasn't that impressed with  the 
actual records because some of the records were set on soft or open records.  
Just my opinion. I never said the HRM crew sucks or they are bottom  feeding 
scumbags or that they and their car sucks or anything like  that.
 
BUT, All hell broke loose, again.
 
The usual's took my comment that to me, setting open or soft records isn't  a 
big deal and turned it into the usual fiasco of blind attacks at me. For the  
last 3 days I and the list have been barraged with why I should respect any  
record regardless if it was an open or soft record. Like everybody saw, it 
went  on and on and on again culminating with I should split the list again so 
the  list won't be polluted with BS.
 
Guess what? All the pollution was from the usuals that played God to me  with 
how I should think and what I should say. They kept the miss guided thread  
rolling, not me!
 
OK, I get the message. You wanna get along in the LSR community, be and act  
like everybody. Praise everybody for everything they do even though inside you 
 think the opposite. Don't ask any inflammatory questions that would make 
anybody  admit the truth. Did I miss anything?
 
The rebel
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From Askotto at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 12:48:39 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:48:39 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Racers with traction control are wimps!!!
Message-ID: <ca1.19582e99.33fb3c07@aol.com>

OK, just kidding!!! Calm down!!!
 
I would love to have it!!!
 
It's a good thing for safety and especially for a newbie like me who  thinks 
the throttle has two positions! I'm all for it.
 
Oh no!, I hope I didn't open another can of worms!!! Is traction control  
politically correct? Is it OK I'm in favor of it. Should I hate it?  Help  me out 
here!   LOL
 
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Aug 20 13:15:56 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:15:56 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Racers with traction control are wimps!!!
References: <ca1.19582e99.33fb3c07@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46C9E86A.00000C.02672@TOM>

Otto,

I respect your opinions on all matters. I think what hits a nerve with most
of us is that you have no history (to my knowledge) of running at Bonneville
 so your critical  thoughts are not received that well. I suspect that, like
myself, you are too caustic in your remarks at times which causes the
criticism that you mention.

There is a Native American saying that goes something like, "Let me not
criticize another until I have walked a mile in his moccasins." I think that
this is a good pattern to follow.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Aug 20 13:26:19 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:26:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Soft Records
References: <D5A5E7FD63114902BEE10C7F3A660165@LMS> <46C9BB2C.000003.02672@TOM>
	<001001c7e34b$bfb040c0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <001601c7e35f$fc6898a0$6400a8c0@Dale>

They took my planned for soft AA/GCC record so if I want to set a record now 
I have something to shoot for
dale
happy they did it in Pahrump

Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Soft Records


> Somebody has to be first. If not there would never be a record. And the
> numbers set were not all that bad by any standard. Some people are happy 
> to
> set a 151 record in AA just to set a record. Prove that they were there. I
> am still waiting to find out who was harmed by the KT & HRM record flurry.
> Only somebody planning on running on a cherry, I guess.

> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Soft Records
>
>
>> Hey let's cool it! Having run on open records and set a few since, I can
>> tell you that just because a class has an open record doesn't necessarily
>> result in an easy time of it. In the mid to late eighties we were running
>> on
>> a open record of 205 mph and having quite rough a time qualifying. Since,
>> we
>> have inched upward to a 244+ mph record and are now having a rough time
>> going that fast.
>>
>> The Salt is a strange place...if anyone thinks that they have a handle on
>> the tune up for the salt, just wait a while and you will find that it
>> doesn
>> t work anymore. Most of my problems have been self-inflicted, but I have
>> great respect for anyone who sets a record at Bonneville, regardless of
>> the
>> former speed. Just be aware that records are made to be broken.
>>
>> The key to success at any event is being prepared, I wasn't this year, or
>> the couple proceeding. I will be ready for the WOS.  Sometimes It takes 
>> an
>> event like our Speedweek to sharpen the senses.  It was expensive, but
>> educational!
>>
>> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

From saltracer at shaw.ca  Mon Aug 20 13:27:46 2007
From: saltracer at shaw.ca (salt)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:27:46 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Why this list sucks.... Part 1
References: <cf6.17195c75.33fb329a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01bc01c7e360$33054f20$6401a8c0@racer>

Some weeks the list would be almost dead without Otto.

Bob

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Aug 20 13:45:26 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:45:26 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...
References: <00b101c7e349$03945900$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <46C9EF56.00000F.02672@TOM>

Keith and all,

Our problems at Speedweek were brain fade! As you know, we had been fighting
a fuel delivery problem for two years. I fixed the problem by installing a
Kinsler Vapor Separator System. It seemed to work well at the Lakes in May,
so I went to the salt expecting all to be well with the fuel system.

We had multiple problems...first a plugged nozzle attributed to a new hose I
made for the system at the barrel valve. After cleaning "all" the nozzles to
be safe, I thought now we had it whipped. It was better on eight cylinders,
but still running in the low 230s. After a couple of runs, we decided to run
a leakage test on the cylinders. We found the head gasket leaking between #3
& #5 cylinders. We pulled the head and replaced the gasket. Now we were
certain that it would run in the high 140s. Wrong again! A run at 135, still
not pulling well in high gear and we didn't have the computer turned on to
gather info.

We had hooked up a pressure sensor on the Vapor Cannister to see just what
was happening there and moved our fuel pressure monitoring to the barrel
valve side of the compensator valve (a part of the vapor system that is
supposed to compensate for the pressure added to the suction of the Injector
Pump). Our ninth run, we did have the computer on and set. We got some very
useful info, but unfortunately, with all the concentration on performance
problems I neglected to change the oil soon enough which ended up spinning a
bearing. The chain reaction cost me a crankshaft two rods and pistons a
camshaft and two lifters, timing gear set and a badly bruised block. BTW
what does the listers have to say about oil? I have been running Pennzoil
20W/50W for several years. I heard from a couple of sources before this
mishap that Pennzoil doesn't like alky. Any comments?

More later.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From td at twinjugs.com  Mon Aug 20 14:01:38 2007
From: td at twinjugs.com (Todd)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:01:38 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Why this list sucks.... Part 1
In-Reply-To: <01bc01c7e360$33054f20$6401a8c0@racer>
References: <cf6.17195c75.33fb329a@aol.com>
	<01bc01c7e360$33054f20$6401a8c0@racer>
Message-ID: <20070820200040.M10329@twinjugs.com>

> Some weeks the list would be almost dead without Otto.

And vice versa I imagine!
Todd

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Aug 20 11:57:55 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:57:55 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] suspension
In-Reply-To: <c38.1c2233e2.33fb1c82@aol.com>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E4@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

I've "heard" a lot about the air bag suspension systems:  cheap and make
a pig into a road course wonder, etc.

Any thoughts on how this might work on the salt (twould be cool to lower
the car onto the salt, eh?)

Any thoughts, comments, hints would be appreciated.

David in Durango

From gary_ellen at msn.com  Mon Aug 20 14:33:47 2007
From: gary_ellen at msn.com (Ellen Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:33:47 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...
References: <00b101c7e349$03945900$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46C9EF56.00000F.02672@TOM>
Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV6AF1E700E10F10FA33609F9DB0@phx.gbl>

Tom
You might contact Gary Allen he ran Rotella with good success.

Gary W
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Tom Bryant<mailto:saltracer at awwwsome.com>
  To: land-speed at autox.team.net<mailto:land-speed at autox.team.net> ; Keith
Turk<mailto:kturk at ala.net>
  Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 1:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...


  I have been running Pennzoil
  20W/50W for several years. I heard from a couple of sources before this
  mishap that Pennzoil doesn't like alky. Any comments?

  More later.

  Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

  [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
faint_grain.jpg]

  [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of
elephant_en.gif]
  _______________________________________________
  gary_ellen at msn.com<mailto:gary_ellen at msn.com>

  Land-speed mailing list

  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed<http://autox.team.net/mai
lman/listinfo/land-speed>

From MPittwood at compuserve.com  Mon Aug 20 15:10:21 2007
From: MPittwood at compuserve.com (MPittwood at compuserve.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:10:21 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] British superiority in engineering?
Message-ID: <200708201710_MC3-1-EB20-B47F@compuserve.com>

Mayf & list

I did not see in the latest article any claims of British superiority in
engineering - although in the case of the diesel power unit its engineering
performance could be inferred from holding the LSR and being more efficient
and accepting more boost pressure than the Audi or Peugeot LeMans race
diesels or any F1 or Champ Car engines.

Andy Green's quote was  "  ...... a great opportunity to show the world
what British design and engineering skill can achieve."

I would not agree that the US press ............... given a story on a
forthcoming outright world speed record bid ................... would hold
back from making claims regarding the engineering or manufacturing skills
of their own Country or countrymen involved in the project.

[Maybe I cannot see where and when the engineering skills .......... of a
major British business (arguably the best designer and maker of yellow
painted construction digger vehicles (LOL)), that is worth billions - in
association with some high profile partners - decides to spend a 'modest
amount' of turnover on a publicity or marketing driven LSR bid,
............. are replaced by or because of the amount of money spent.].

Would you expect a world class business to limit the enthusiaism for its
successes? (The PR consultancy would be sacked for holding back -
regardless of their Country of origin).

Of course we know that the LSR outright wheeldriven record will only fall
to a "superior" effort by the British ..................  because of
Goodyear state of the art high speed tyres (450 + mph)  - made to be
superior than all others in the USA.

Many in the UK in LSR circles hope that the tyres will be made available to
all racers.  At the moment I do not know anything that would keep the tyres
just to the JCB team.  But what size will they be?  Will US racers want
them?

Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Aug 20 15:17:33 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:17:33 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Racers with traction control are wimps!!!
In-Reply-To: <ca1.19582e99.33fb3c07@aol.com>
References: <ca1.19582e99.33fb3c07@aol.com>
Message-ID: <75046b99345f6e54a415ab8ae735f2aa@comcast.net>

You and Dahlgren agree on something?

Wes

On Aug 20, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Askotto at aol.com wrote:

> OK, just kidding!!! Calm down!!!
>
> I would love to have it!!!
>
> It's a good thing for safety and especially for a newbie like me who  
> thinks
> the throttle has two positions! I'm all for it.
>
> Oh no!, I hope I didn't open another can of worms!!! Is traction 
> control
> politically correct? Is it OK I'm in favor of it. Should I hate it?  
> Help  me out
> here!   LOL
>
> Otto

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Aug 20 11:00:15 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:00:15 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...
In-Reply-To: <00b101c7e349$03945900$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E2@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Holy c**p this is a good idea.

Heaven forbid I should learn something other than the little personality
quirks . . .

David in Durango
Saw a Mitsubishi econo box beat a twin turbo Viper at the Sandhill mile
bwahahahahaha

PS: Hats off to anyone who goes beyond the "neat chrome dipstick" or
"I'd go with the polished wheels . . "
Peace, love and brown rice . . .

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Keith Turk
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 10:42 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...

Tom, you bring up a good point...  rather then let this thing turn into
a
mess... lets fix it.

Here's what I'd propose...  each of us oughta take a minute and sort out
the
things we did right and wrong and post them....  by sharing our
experiences
maybe someone else won't make the same mistake in the future and we'll
all
benefit.

I for example didn't bring my trailer and thought I could load my pit
set up
in the truck... which we did for the most part... but what we didn't
bring was
enough tools... for example I didn't pack my jack and stands... and the
one's
David brought were somewhat marginal....  We ended up borrowing a ton
more
stuff then we should have... ( I always feel guilty when I borrow more
then I
loan )

What we did spot on was establish in advance the goal of swapping the
intake
on the salt... After David had done his dyno work on the Blower set
up... he
took the time to pull it off and stick on a dominator manifold set up
and tune
it on the dyno... so we had a great baseline for that combination to do
our
Nitrous runs that last couple of days.  I'd sorted out the Manifold in
the hot
rod shop to accept our Nitrous set up and had evaluated all the plumbing
and
wiring requirements and had an established plan that actually worked
fairly
well.

The one thing we missed was the Progressive nitrous set up.... seems it
shut
off after 15 seconds and went into a reset mode...  once again... while
testing this in the pits we found the problem ( good for us )... what we
couldn't do was fix it... so once again we ran with an all or nothing
situation and David had to actuate the Nitrous multiple times before he
could
get it totally hooked up and switched on...  ( imagine fanning the
button
acting like a progressive controller while running deep into the 250's )

More to follow I'm sure as I remember the whole thing

Tell us what you did right and wrong...

Keith
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Aug 20 15:23:59 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:23:59 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] British superiority in engineering?
In-Reply-To: <200708201710_MC3-1-EB20-B47F@compuserve.com>
References: <200708201710_MC3-1-EB20-B47F@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <cff0f6e2f493d98d4420cef70f042d3f@comcast.net>

Malcolm,
I've been curious.  Why did JCB scrub the manufacturer's name off the 
sidewalls of the tires they ran last year?
Wes

On Aug 20, 2007, at 3:10 PM, MPittwood at compuserve.com wrote:

> Mayf & list
>
> I did not see in the latest article any claims of British superiority 
> in
> engineering - although in the case of the diesel power unit its 
> engineering
> performance could be inferred from holding the LSR and being more 
> efficient
> and accepting more boost pressure than the Audi or Peugeot LeMans race
> diesels or any F1 or Champ Car engines.
>
> Andy Green's quote was  "  ...... a great opportunity to show the world
> what British design and engineering skill can achieve."
>
> I would not agree that the US press ............... given a story on a
> forthcoming outright world speed record bid ................... would 
> hold
> back from making claims regarding the engineering or manufacturing 
> skills
> of their own Country or countrymen involved in the project.
>
> [Maybe I cannot see where and when the engineering skills .......... 
> of a
> major British business (arguably the best designer and maker of yellow
> painted construction digger vehicles (LOL)), that is worth billions - 
> in
> association with some high profile partners - decides to spend a 
> 'modest
> amount' of turnover on a publicity or marketing driven LSR bid,
> ............. are replaced by or because of the amount of money 
> spent.].
>
> Would you expect a world class business to limit the enthusiaism for 
> its
> successes? (The PR consultancy would be sacked for holding back -
> regardless of their Country of origin).
>
> Of course we know that the LSR outright wheeldriven record will only 
> fall
> to a "superior" effort by the British ..................  because of
> Goodyear state of the art high speed tyres (450 + mph)  - made to be
> superior than all others in the USA.
>
> Many in the UK in LSR circles hope that the tyres will be made 
> available to
> all racers.  At the moment I do not know anything that would keep the 
> tyres
> just to the JCB team.  But what size will they be?  Will US racers want
> them?
>
> Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Aug 20 15:27:35 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:27:35 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Genesis of Hot Rodding - B'ville
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E8@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Speedvision tonite 8:00 mountain time



8:00 pm

American Muscle Car <http://www.speedtv.com/programs/172/>

Bonneville -- The Genesis of Hot Rodding

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Aug 20 15:41:12 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:41:12 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] suspension
In-Reply-To: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E4@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E4@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <4963580e7da38d3ab32c887b6a31e15e@comcast.net>

I think Keith has had some experience with this.

Wes

On Aug 20, 2007, at 11:57 AM, Adin, David wrote:

> I've "heard" a lot about the air bag suspension systems:  cheap and 
> make
> a pig into a road course wonder, etc.
>
> Any thoughts on how this might work on the salt (twould be cool to 
> lower
> the car onto the salt, eh?)
>
> Any thoughts, comments, hints would be appreciated.
>
> David in Durango
> _______________________________________________

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Aug 20 16:30:24 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:30:24 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Aerial photos of the Speedweek starting line
Message-ID: <35a9196aa62969cbe9f4a4a07bcaaaaf@comcast.net>

Ron Christensen just sent me some photos of the Speedweek starting line 
that he got from George Callaway.  I can't forward them to the list 
because they will be removed but if you would like to see them please 
email me and I'll forward them.

Wes

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Mon Aug 20 16:28:42 2007
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:28:42 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] Most prolific record setting car
In-Reply-To: <012a01c7e2df$a7670740$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <d48.f07d7e4.33f941b0@aol.com>
	<006001c7e2ce$33812330$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
	<012a01c7e2df$a7670740$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <F73354CEC63840DBBEC3FC928E7A3006@ChrisHarrisPC>

To Keith, Tonya, David & Steve,
Awesome effort people, that's what dreams are made of, I'm staggered at what
you all achieved at SW and can appreciate the forward planning that went into
it.
Keith........once again your total unselfish attitude has provided the
springboard allowing others to participate and achieve at a high level. Your
connection with David has bought much to our sport plus lots of personal
satisfaction for him as well no doubt.
Chris Harris...........NZed.

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Mon Aug 20 16:38:32 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:38:32 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Why this list sucks.... Part 1
References: <cf6.17195c75.33fb329a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001901c7e37a$d72cc820$6501a8c0@Rick>

Odd toe

Providing lunch and picking up hotel costs of volunteers has been NO secret 
to those of us who have been around for a while and taken the time to 
notice.
After spending two days helping this year, I more appreciate the workers. 
Many give up lots of hours so we may race, and this year required even more.
It was a great meet in spite of the original courses being washed out.


Rick

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 16:44:21 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:44:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] suspension
In-Reply-To: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E4@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <102463.89912.qm@web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It's a real neat way to get the car high enough to get it off and on the trailer without dragging the headers off!
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas

"Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org> wrote:
  I've "heard" a lot about the air bag suspension systems: cheap and make
a pig into a road course wonder, etc.

Any thoughts on how this might work on the salt (twould be cool to lower
the car onto the salt, eh?)

Any thoughts, comments, hints would be appreciated.

David in Durango

       
---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
 Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. 

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 17:06:18 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:06:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] This List Does Not Suck - - Remember What The List is
	For
Message-ID: <800728.20330.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I don't figure this list sucks at all.  I try to remember what it's for, or at least what I think it's for, and then use it like a rational adult.  There are several things that this list (forum) does really well:
   
  1.  If somebody has a gripe, this is where they can air their feelings.
  2.  If somebody has praise, this is where they can voice those praises.
  3.  If somebody wants to complain, this is where it can be done.
  4.  If somebody wants to toot their own horn, this is where bench racing bragging is OK.
  5.  If somebody learns an important lesson, this is where they can pass it on.
  6.  If somebody has an important question, like how to jet their carb, what kind of tire to run, which gears work best, etc, etc, etc; this is where they can ask that question and get a good answer.
  7.  If somebody isn't sure what a rule paragraph really means, this is where they can get some answers.
   
  If you are not interested in any thread that gets going, it's real easy to hit "delete" before reading!  
   
  This list let's me be a part of the scene on a daily basis, even when I'm stuck here in Texas and the action is in Utah!  
   
  I love this list, and all the guys on it are great!
   
  Dick J
  In East Texas 

       
---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. 

From kturk at ala.net  Mon Aug 20 18:10:45 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:10:45 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] suspension
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E4@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
	<4963580e7da38d3ab32c887b6a31e15e@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00b401c7e387$b88236a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

I've had an air ride system for many years on the Camaro... there are 
advantages and disadvantages...

My original reason was to aid me in putting it on the trailer...also to help 
put a jack under the car,  a hidden upside was that I could measure bag 
pressure to roughly determine downforce on the front and rear of the 
car....but it also has a couple of down sides...   The deal is if you loose 
air pressure it can cause a sudden decrease in ride height.

When designing one of these systems you need to determine how stiff you want 
the car to be... in our case the bags come in the form of "Shockwaves" from 
Air Ride technology's which have the shock and air bag combined in a single 
unit.... and thier length is set from the factory.... position in the car 
determines the amount of pressure in the bag at the correct ride height.... 
I've found that stiffer suspensions in my cars has worked fairly well and to 
do that with an air ride system we've been keeping the pressure around 
80-100 psi.  that doesn't leave a lot of room to actually raise the car from 
a lowered or race position...

Real world travel is around 4" at the maximum psi of around 150psi....

Shock valve settings are also relatively stiff in these units... so they 
dampen fairly well...

The last thing to remember is that toe, and camber settings change on an A 
frame front end based on right height at the time....  so we always string 
the car prior to racing after extended trailering.

Keith 

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Aug 20 18:39:57 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:39:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] suspension
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E4@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net><4963580e7da38d3ab32c887b6a31e15e@comcast.net>
	<00b401c7e387$b88236a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <001901c7e38b$cec9f610$6400a8c0@Dale>

ok now that you guys have my soft AA/BGCC record I need to steel your 
suspension to try for the record, what is string the car? something to do 
with the front end alignment? tow in tow out ,  camber caster?
dale
have to work harder on car now, might cost money

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] suspension


> I've had an air ride system for many years on the Camaro... there are
> advantages and disadvantages...
>
> My original reason was to aid me in putting it on the trailer...also to 
> help
> put a jack under the car,  a hidden upside was that I could measure bag
> pressure to roughly determine downforce on the front and rear of the
> car....but it also has a couple of down sides...   The deal is if you 
> loose
> air pressure it can cause a sudden decrease in ride height.
>
> When designing one of these systems you need to determine how stiff you 
> want
> the car to be... in our case the bags come in the form of "Shockwaves" 
> from
> Air Ride technology's which have the shock and air bag combined in a 
> single
> unit.... and thier length is set from the factory.... position in the car
> determines the amount of pressure in the bag at the correct ride 
> height....
> I've found that stiffer suspensions in my cars has worked fairly well and 
> to
> do that with an air ride system we've been keeping the pressure around
> 80-100 psi.  that doesn't leave a lot of room to actually raise the car 
> from
> a lowered or race position...
>
> Real world travel is around 4" at the maximum psi of around 150psi....
>
> Shock valve settings are also relatively stiff in these units... so they
> dampen fairly well...
>
> The last thing to remember is that toe, and camber settings change on an A
> frame front end based on right height at the time....  so we always string
> the car prior to racing after extended trailering.
>
> Keith

From kturk at ala.net  Mon Aug 20 18:44:13 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:44:13 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] suspension checking...
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E4@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net><4963580e7da38d3ab32c887b6a31e15e@comcast.net><00b401c7e387$b88236a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<001901c7e38b$cec9f610$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <00d801c7e38c$653383f0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

ahhh now we get back to the alignment thread of last month... where you set 
up jack stands and run strings to the front of the car.....  simply measures 
tow in and gives you that warm fuzzy feeling that nothing has changed...

Keith 

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Aug 20 18:56:27 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:56:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] suspension checking...
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E4@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net><4963580e7da38d3ab32c887b6a31e15e@comcast.net><00b401c7e387$b88236a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<001901c7e38b$cec9f610$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<00d801c7e38c$653383f0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <002801c7e38e$1c6ff930$6400a8c0@Dale>

ok, I wasn't  paying attention, just like in high school, watching girls, 
now watching cars get old.
dale
getting dark in pahrump

Subject: Re: [Land-speed] suspension checking...


> ahhh now we get back to the alignment thread of last month... where you 
> set up jack stands and run strings to the front of the car.....  simply 
> measures tow in and gives you that warm fuzzy feeling that nothing has 
> changed...
>
> Keith

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Aug 20 19:05:13 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:05:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
Message-ID: <46CA3A49.2050509@mayfco.com>

Some of you know that I had some issues with boost and with over 
fueling.  Many said I looked like a diesel heading down the salt. Well, 
today I started checking things. Well actually a day or two ago. I was 
looking for places where boost could sneak off and hide. I may have 
found a loose hose clamp on one turbo. Maybe. But I found no other 
gaskets out of place or lookinglike they had leaked. Not counting the 
intake to head gaskets. But today I ran a compression test on all 8 
cylinders and ...bummer... #3 and # 8 were both down. # 3 down to 60 
psig and #8 down to 100 where the tohers were all above 127 and very 
closely matched. So I borrowed Skips leakdown tester and went at those 2 
cylinders. Yikes! #3 would only hold 8 psig when hit with 100 on the 
input. #8 was far better at 100 / 92 in / out. So I don't know about it. 
But #3 is difinately out of whack. I listened at the intake manifold, no 
hissing, no hissing at the exhaust pispe and surprisingly no bubbles int 
he radiator water surge tank.  Never the less, I suspect the big blown 
gasket. Now mind you these are Cometic MLS gaskets that are supposed to 
be really good.  In the interest of scientific survey, however, let me 
poll the group: What head gaskets are best for a 5.0L ford with aluminum 
heads and running 16 to 18 psig boost? Any body want to hazard a guess 
based on experience? I need to order some so that I can play with it all 
next week. I have to go out of town this week to see a dentist (I 
amgoing to sneak across the border the other way, lol) so no work after 
tuesday..until Sat.

Helpful hints?  Thoughts?

many thanks,
'
mayf

From yesford at clear.net.nz  Mon Aug 20 19:31:52 2007
From: yesford at clear.net.nz (Chris Harris)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:31:52 +1200
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
In-Reply-To: <46CA3A49.2050509@mayfco.com>
References: <46CA3A49.2050509@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <8016067AD7EF4375979A6FE1F46CFDAE@ChrisHarrisPC>

 What head gaskets are best for a 5.0L ford with aluminum
heads and running 16 to 18 psig boost?

Mayf, providing head & deck surfaces are flat and are torqued correctly, the
Cometics will be fine. Even the good old blue Teflon coated Fel-Pros can
perform surprisingly well.
You 'rattle em'.............."you'll lose em, however.
Chris H.........NZed.

From ifixmgs at cox.net  Mon Aug 20 21:05:25 2007
From: ifixmgs at cox.net (ifixmgs at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:05:25 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
Message-ID: <29122556.1187665525547.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml13.mgt.cox.net>

Mayf,
   I've  sent you a novella on the subject, which is near and dear to my heart....  I didn't mention that I'm running TrickFlow Twisted Wedge heads and ARP Pro Series studs.  
Mark C 


 What head gaskets are best for a 5.0L ford with aluminum 
> heads and running 16 to 18 psig boost? Any body want to hazard a guess 
> based on experience? I need to order some so that I can play with it all 
> next week. I have to go out of town this week to see a dentist (I 
> amgoing to sneak across the border the other way, lol) so no work after 
> tuesday..until Sat.
> 
> Helpful hints?  Thoughts?
> 
> many thanks,
> '
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> ifixmgs at cox.net
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 21:21:28 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:21:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] record
Message-ID: <759177.56983.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

"happy they did it in Pahrump"
   
  Dale,
   
  I thought it was done in Utah.
   
  DW


Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
 Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. 

From Askotto at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 21:51:38 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:51:38 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Being  Bipolar sucks!!!!!!
Message-ID: <cf2.16e3e197.33fbbb4a@aol.com>

Sooooooo have you noticed I swing from "Mr. helpful" with technical answers  
to the biggest asshole in the world???
 
Welcome to the life of a Bipolar.
 
I have found that I have little or no control over my big mouth when I'm on  
a down swing. As much as I try, the BS just comes flowing out. It's like my  
muscles start bulging and I turn green and all hell breaks loose! When I'm  
"better", I look at what I've done or said and I can't believe myself! I'm so  
ashamed then.
 
It really sucks being Bi polar. Just ask one. You go from short spurts of  
being on top of the world to long periods of wanting to kill yourself to put the 
 demon to rest.
 
I'm on the down swing and I don't want it to get any uglier than it already  
is. So to avoid from putting the list through my mood swings and resulting  
barrage of BS, I've chosen to bail off the list.
 
I want to apologize to the HRM team and the rest of the list for being such  
an asshole.
 
I've really enjoyed my short stint in LSR. I've met a lot of great  people!
 
I'll be signing off the list now
 
Good by
Otto



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 20 22:04:40 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:04:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Being  Bipolar sucks!!!!!!
References: <cf2.16e3e197.33fbbb4a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c7e3a8$68bc4bd0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

So Otto, why don't you write what you want to get it off your chest, then 
delete it. I do it all the time.


Subject: [Land-speed] Being Bipolar sucks!!!!!!


> Sooooooo have you noticed I swing from "Mr. helpful" with technical 
> answers
> to the biggest asshole in the world???
>
> Welcome to the life of a Bipolar.
>
> I have found that I have little or no control over my big mouth when I'm 
> on
> a down swing. As much as I try, the BS just comes flowing out. It's like 
> my
> muscles start bulging and I turn green and all hell breaks loose! When I'm
> "better", I look at what I've done or said and I can't believe myself! I'm 
> so
> ashamed then.
>
> It really sucks being Bi polar. Just ask one. You go from short spurts of
> being on top of the world to long periods of wanting to kill yourself to 
> put the
> demon to rest.
>
> I'm on the down swing and I don't want it to get any uglier than it 
> already
> is. So to avoid from putting the list through my mood swings and resulting
> barrage of BS, I've chosen to bail off the list.
>
> I want to apologize to the HRM team and the rest of the list for being 
> such
> an asshole.
>
> I've really enjoyed my short stint in LSR. I've met a lot of great 
> people!
>
> I'll be signing off the list now
>
> Good by
> Otto
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL 
> at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> _______________________________________________
> gmc6power at earthlink.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Flowbench at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 22:11:37 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:11:37 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Being  Bipolar sucks!!!!!!
Message-ID: <c5d.1d43f75b.33fbbff9@aol.com>

Otto, I know many will not let your answer about being Bi be the end all  
answer. I have a family member who has this problem and it is no joke. Some days  
she is a perfect loving person others you are afraid to be in the same room 
as  she might accuse you of sexual harassment. 
I have found myself so pissed at you but I've not replied because I knew  
what the true issue was. Take care my friend, Zoloff works wonders, you just  
need to remember you need the help and not that you can handle it on your own. 
Don't leave the list, those that understand will, those that don't  won't.
 
Mike



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 20 22:27:12 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:27:12 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Being  Bipolar sucks!!!!!!
Message-ID: <BAY135-W40099BDDCC3F4F6063F8CFD9D40@phx.gbl>

I unnerstand Otto.  I'm that way some myself.


You gotta try real hard to "NOT" click 'send' buttons [or speak out loud] ...
when you get that way -and it's HARD to do.   I know.

hang in there.don't go no place.keep buildin' cars.  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug"
in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one

cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc>
From: Flowbench at aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:11:37 -0400> To:
Askotto at aol.com; land-speed at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Being
Bipolar sucks!!!!!!> > Otto, I know many will not let your answer about being
Bi be the end all  > answer. I have a family member who has this problem and
it is no joke. Some days  > she is a perfect loving person others you are
afraid to be in the same room > as  she might accuse you of sexual harassment.
> I have found myself so pissed at you but I've not replied because I knew  >
what the true issue was. Take care my friend, Zoloff works wonders, you just
> need to remember you need the help and not that you can handle it on your
own. > Don't leave the list, those that understand will, those that don't
won't.>  > Mike>
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&
cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&
encType=1&FORM=MGAC01

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 22:59:38 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:59:38 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Being  Bipolar sucks!!!!!!
Message-ID: <c95.18229bdc.33fbcb3a@aol.com>

Gay, straigt or bi, I like polar bears. Take care Otto! Bob in connecticut



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Aug 20 23:06:19 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:06:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] record
In-Reply-To: <759177.56983.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <759177.56983.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46CA72CB.70801@mayfco.com>

Wha? wha? wha we talking bout here?

mayf...
dan warner wrote:

>"happy they did it in Pahrump"
>   
>  Dale,
>   
>  I thought it was done in Utah.
>   
>  DW
>
>
>Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07
>
>       
>---------------------------------
>Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. 
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Aug 21 07:01:21 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:01:21 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] suspension
In-Reply-To: <00b401c7e387$b88236a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E9@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Thank you!

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Turk [mailto:kturk at ala.net]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 6:11 PM
To: Wester Potter; Adin, David
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] suspension

I've had an air ride system for many years on the Camaro... there are
advantages and disadvantages...

My original reason was to aid me in putting it on the trailer...also to
help
put a jack under the car,  a hidden upside was that I could measure bag
pressure to roughly determine downforce on the front and rear of the
car....but it also has a couple of down sides...   The deal is if you
loose
air pressure it can cause a sudden decrease in ride height.

When designing one of these systems you need to determine how stiff you
want
the car to be... in our case the bags come in the form of "Shockwaves"
from
Air Ride technology's which have the shock and air bag combined in a
single
unit.... and thier length is set from the factory.... position in the
car
determines the amount of pressure in the bag at the correct ride
height....
I've found that stiffer suspensions in my cars has worked fairly well
and to
do that with an air ride system we've been keeping the pressure around
80-100 psi.  that doesn't leave a lot of room to actually raise the car
from
a lowered or race position...

Real world travel is around 4" at the maximum psi of around 150psi....

Shock valve settings are also relatively stiff in these units... so they

dampen fairly well...

The last thing to remember is that toe, and camber settings change on an
A
frame front end based on right height at the time....  so we always
string
the car prior to racing after extended trailering.

Keith

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Aug 21 07:35:53 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:35:53 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] OSU Buckeye Bullet 2 tops 200 MPH at Bonneville -
	AutoblogGreen
Message-ID: <000501c7e3f8$32402e50$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/08/20/osu-buckeye-bullet-2-tops-200-mph-at-
bonneville/

Way to go Ohio State
dale
still glad they did it in Pahrump, even if the run was in Utah

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Aug 21 07:40:11 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:40:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] record
References: <759177.56983.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002201c7e3f8$cbe3ffa0$6400a8c0@Dale>

Hay we have a dry lake next to town bigger than el mirage, where we might 
practice in the future
dale
ssuunnyy and going high in temp today

Subject: [Land-speed] record


> "happy they did it in Pahrump"
>
>  Dale,
>
>  I thought it was done in Utah.
>
>  DW
>
>
> Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Tue Aug 21 09:12:21 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:12:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] record
In-Reply-To: <759177.56983.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <759177.56983.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070821151223.B583D1879FD@autox.team.net>

Dale is glad they did it.....and he is in Pahrump! PRC rodeo? (-:(-: Congrats!

Hi Dan,

Skip...also in Pahrump where one has to be imaginative sometimes.





At 08:21 PM 8/20/2007, dan warner wrote:
>"happy they did it in Pahrump"
>
>   Dale,
>
>   I thought it was done in Utah.
>
>   DW
>
>
>Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
>  Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
>_______________________________________________
>saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Tue Aug 21 09:34:27 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:34:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
In-Reply-To: <46CA3A49.2050509@mayfco.com>
References: <46CA3A49.2050509@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <C23643DD-4061-40AA-9137-C70E5B41DB55@gmail.com>

On Aug 20, 2007, at 6:05 PM, drmayf wrote:

> <snipped for brevety>
> Helpful hints?  Thoughts?

Mayf-

Boost leaks, even small and undetected will play hell with your  
engine, especially if you're using a mass airflow metering system.  
Best thing to do is build a boost leak tester... essentially  
something you can hook to the input of your turbo and pressurize your  
system. I've seen many made of 3" pvc with a cap, a valve stem and a  
guage. once you've got your system under pressure, you do the soapy  
water in a spray bottle inspection, and see if you have leaks. It's  
the easiest way to make sure there's no leaks, and you can do it with  
a bicycle pump while waiting in line.

For heads, if you're running 15-18 psi, the cometic are supposed to  
be able to handle that, but I've been told that to run high boost, I  
should get "O" rings installed in my head. What this essentially  
involves is a machine shop cuts a small groove around the cylinder of  
each head and puts a square ring of wire into the groove. When you  
torque down the heads you get a solid seal and it stands up to way  
more pressure than any head gasket could handle. I personally have  
not tried this, I'm still working on the body of my turbo eclipse,  
but I've looked into it, and it seems like a pretty solid solution to  
boost past 25 psi. Your results may vary.


> many thanks,
> '
> mayf

Always glad to have a bit of knowledge to share.

~Jon

From karhu at california.com  Tue Aug 21 09:56:55 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:56:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
References: <46CA3A49.2050509@mayfco.com>
	<C23643DD-4061-40AA-9137-C70E5B41DB55@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003801c7e40b$e68caa60$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

How do you pressurize the intake when some valves are almost certainly
open (including some in overlap)?
Benn

> Mayf-
>
> Boost leaks, even small and undetected will play hell with your
> engine, especially if you're using a mass airflow metering system.
> Best thing to do is build a boost leak tester... essentially
> something you can hook to the input of your turbo and pressurize your
> system. I've seen many made of 3" pvc with a cap, a valve stem and a
> guage. once you've got your system under pressure, you do the soapy
> water in a spray bottle inspection, and see if you have leaks. It's
> the easiest way to make sure there's no leaks, and you can do it with
> a bicycle pump while waiting in line.
>
> For heads, if you're running 15-18 psi, the cometic are supposed to
> be able to handle that, but I've been told that to run high boost, I
> should get "O" rings installed in my head. What this essentially
> involves is a machine shop cuts a small groove around the cylinder of
> each head and puts a square ring of wire into the groove. When you
> torque down the heads you get a solid seal and it stands up to way
> more pressure than any head gasket could handle. I personally have
> not tried this, I'm still working on the body of my turbo eclipse,
> but I've looked into it, and it seems like a pretty solid solution to
> boost past 25 psi. Your results may vary.
> ~Jon

From FastmetalBDF at aol.com  Tue Aug 21 10:15:22 2007
From: FastmetalBDF at aol.com (FastmetalBDF at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:15:22 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
Message-ID: <c6e.170aa9c6.33fc699a@aol.com>

Benn wrote "How do you pressurize the intake  when some of the valves are 
open ?"
 
                      
                       Back off on the intake rockers to close those valves 
during  testing ........
 
 
bdf



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From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Aug 21 10:16:42 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:16:42 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] record
In-Reply-To: <20070821151223.B583D1879FD@autox.team.net>
References: <759177.56983.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20070821151223.B583D1879FD@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <a84b6ee12327834f9214cc68c5181b55@comcast.net>

As an official inductee in the Pahrump Valley Timing Association, I'm 
glad too!

Wes

On Aug 21, 2007, at 9:12 AM, Skip Higginbotham wrote:

> Dale is glad they did it.....and he is in Pahrump! PRC rodeo? (-:(-: 
> Congrats!
>
> Hi Dan,
>
> Skip...also in Pahrump where one has to be imaginative sometimes.
>
>
>
>
>
> At 08:21 PM 8/20/2007, dan warner wrote:
>> "happy they did it in Pahrump"
>>
>>   Dale,
>>
>>   I thought it was done in Utah.
>>
>>   DW
>>
>>
>> Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 21 10:37:03 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:37:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] OSU Buckeye Bullet 2 tops 200 MPH at Bonneville -
 AutoblogGreen
Message-ID: <10811084.1187714224183.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Too bad they keep calling it a Hydrogen car. It's an electric car with no batteries; just another way of converting to electric power. Without that 700 HP electric motor it would just sit there. Good job Rick and the OSU-Ford group

>
>Subject: [Land-speed] OSU Buckeye Bullet 2 tops 200 MPH at Bonneville -	AutoblogGreen

From john.szalay at att.net  Tue Aug 21 10:59:29 2007
From: john.szalay at att.net (John Szalay)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:59:29 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] This List Does Not Suck - - Remember What The List
 is For
Message-ID: <082120071659.2092.46CB19F10001A4120000082C2160376223970E040E969CD202080106@att.net>

Hear Hear,,,,,I raise my glass to this post.........


-------------- Original message from Dick J lsr_man at yahoo.com>:  I don't figure this list sucks at all. I try to remember what it's for, or at 
> least what I think it's for, and then use it like a rational adult. There are 
> several things that this list (forum) does really well: 
> 
> 1. If somebody has a gripe, this is where they can air their feelings. 
> 2. If somebody has praise, this is where they can voice those praises. 
> 3. If somebody wants to complain, this is where it can be done. 
> 4. If somebody wants to toot their own horn, this is where bench racing > bragging is OK. 
> 5. If somebody learns an important lesson, this is where they can pass it on. 
> 6. If somebody has an important question, like how to jet their carb, what  kind of tire to run, which gears work best, etc, etc, etc; this is where they   can ask that question and get a good answer. 
> 7. If somebody isn't sure what a rule paragraph really means, this is where  they can get some answers. 
> 
> If you are not interested in any thread that gets going, it's real easy to hit  "delete" before reading! 
> 
> This list let's me be a part of the scene on a daily basis, even when I'm 
> stuck here in Texas and the action is in Utah! 
> 
> I love this list, and all the guys on it are great! 
> 
> Dick J 
> In East Texas 

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Tue Aug 21 11:07:29 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:07:29 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
References: <46CA3A49.2050509@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c7e415$c29b43f0$6501a8c0@Rick>

Hi Doc
After John Staigers comments I guess I need to reply.

The MLS gaskets you have are really pretty good and should have stood up to 
the boost levels you have subjected them to, providing that surface finish, 
flatness, and waviness are within acceptable limits.
The unit load in the bore area should be sort of OK if you have good clamp 
load on all fasteners (studs)
UNLESS
You have experienced pre ignition or detonation.
If the gasket cylinder sealing area is nibbled away and/or looks like a 
blowtorch hit it, you have preignition and there is virtually no gasket that 
will survive.
The music wire is a crutch, and the very best seal is a high pressure gas 
filled metallic"O" ring on the edge of the bore.  (usually inconnel X750 
material).  This can now be done without machining the block or head. 
Cometic and others make gaskets (spacers) that seal fluid passages and have 
a larger bore to accommodate the O ring.  (Helicoflex)
If in fact you have a blown gasket in the combustion sealing area, you need 
to resurface the heads and block to make sure flatness and waviness are 
good.  The machine shop needs to use early specifications of 4.6L Ford in 
all three parameters.
You should also look at clamp load.  With 4   7/16" fasteners for each bore 
I feel that you are marginal.  1/2" studs that provide more clamp load for 
equal torque values work well with the small block Ford.  Watch the exhaust 
side fasteners though for loss of clamp load.  If you overcome the column 
strength of the boss in the head, with high heat in the port area you can 
loose load with aluminum heads.  My 2.3 L engines have seen that problem in 
the past till I updated to the latest head with crossflow cooling and water 
all around the exhaust port.
I hope some of this helps.

Rick 

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Tue Aug 21 11:24:41 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:24:41 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] OSU Buckeye Bullet 2 tops 200 MPH at Bonneville -
 AutoblogGreen
References: <10811084.1187714224183.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <003701c7e418$29a92f10$6501a8c0@Rick>

JD, you sure have a way of saying things       :-d
Thanks for your kind words.  Both groups of people are wonderful and 
inspiring.
You are so right about them just being electric vehicles without batteries. 
While I view both cars as a vehicle of simple systems stacked up on each 
other, the fuel cell stacks and control systems are extremely complex and 
they showed that last week.
The scientists and engineers on both programs performed even better than 
expected, and the success we had is a direct reflection of their Knowledge, 
skill and determination.  I cannot be more impressed than I am with these 
young poeple.
In the beginning I was the only real racer on the Ford team, but after 
reflecting on the speeds we ran, almost all of the team want to return to 
the salt.  I don't know if it will be with the Fusion, but I expect to see 
them again. (actually, I hope to be working with them again)
I'm having withdrawl symptoms.

See you all at World Finals

Rick 

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Aug 21 14:25:18 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:25:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The hunt for the Missing Boost...
Message-ID: <46CB4A2E.2000803@mayfco.com>

Repeated the leakdown... still hasn't healed itself. So, on Skips 
advice, tore it down. And the news is not good... burned the top land of 
#3 piston plus looks like it was getting a bit hot in other places on 
that piston.  Interesting in that all the others on that side show 
moderate carbon on the pistons but this one is pretty darn clean. Very 
little combustion product on it at all. So I am thinking maybe the 
injector wasn't firing or is plugged or some how farkled.  I also found 
that the waste gate controller hot side gasket was blown out on one 
side. So now I am going to have to track some of those down ans well. 
Life is grand, ain't it.  Gotta call D.S.S. for pistons and rings and 
maybe bearings... how much fun can a guy have, lol...

mayf

From Flowbench at aol.com  Tue Aug 21 14:30:57 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:30:57 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] The hunt for the Missing Boost...
Message-ID: <d38.118b7307.33fca581@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/21/2007 1:25:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
drmayf at mayfco.com writes:

> ... how much fun can a guy have, lol...
> 
> 

But think of how much your learning about turbo motors....




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From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Aug 21 14:33:18 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:33:18 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] The hunt for the Missing Boost...
References: <46CB4A2E.2000803@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <01da01c7e432$82e9da10$6401a8c0@Glens>

And the beat goes on. LSR will always bite you along the way Mayf. It's just 
part of racing.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; <tigers at autox.team.net>; "Alpines" 
<alpines at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:25 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] The hunt for the Missing Boost...


> Repeated the leakdown... still hasn't healed itself. So, on Skips
> advice, tore it down. And the news is not good... burned the top land of
> #3 piston plus looks like it was getting a bit hot in other places on
> that piston.  Interesting in that all the others on that side show
> moderate carbon on the pistons but this one is pretty darn clean. Very
> little combustion product on it at all. So I am thinking maybe the
> injector wasn't firing or is plugged or some how farkled.  I also found
> that the waste gate controller hot side gasket was blown out on one
> side. So now I am going to have to track some of those down ans well.
> Life is grand, ain't it.  Gotta call D.S.S. for pistons and rings and
> maybe bearings... how much fun can a guy have, lol...
>
> mayf
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Aug 21 14:33:26 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:33:26 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] The hunt for the Missing Boost...
In-Reply-To: <d38.118b7307.33fca581@aol.com>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165F5@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Yeah, Mayf needs some experience w/ assembly & disassembly (grin)!

(Mayf, I'll be at WOS to keep your cooler in the shade . . . .)

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Flowbench at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:31 PM
To: drmayf at mayfco.com; land-speed at autox.team.net; tigers at autox.team.net;
alpines at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] The hunt for the Missing Boost...

In a message dated 8/21/2007 1:25:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
drmayf at mayfco.com writes:

> ... how much fun can a guy have, lol...
>
>

But think of how much your learning about turbo motors....




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_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Flowbench at aol.com  Tue Aug 21 14:33:25 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:33:25 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] The hunt for the Missing Boost...
Message-ID: <c5e.1a6ed917.33fca615@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/21/2007 1:25:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
drmayf at mayfco.com writes:

> So I am thinking maybe the 
> injector wasn't firing or is plugged or some how farkled.

If your injector was not firing you can't lift a ring land or burn a piston, 
ya gotta have some fuel, just not enough.



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From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Aug 21 14:38:16 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:38:16 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Chat line
Message-ID: <01fc01c7e433$33fa1180$6401a8c0@Glens>

Should be an interesting chat line tonight.
Glen

From MPittwood at compuserve.com  Tue Aug 21 15:58:53 2007
From: MPittwood at compuserve.com (MPittwood at compuserve.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:58:53 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Some LSR answers
Message-ID: <200708211759_MC3-1-EB2A-F66F@compuserve.com>

List

Putting a number of answers into one e mail.  Yes I know it s***ws the
archive but working long hours means that savings have to be made in
typing.

Wes - You have the advantage of being on the salt in '06.  I have seen
pictures of the tyres both with and without the Goodyear name painted in
white.  I have not seen or read about any sidewall name removal by JCB.
There is  achapter in the David Tremayne penned book and apart from careful
storage and handling there is no mention of sidewall alterations to 'hide'
Goodyear..  However the JCB team did apparently approach a UK based maker
to sort out some new high speed tyres but were not offered support.

Mayf - Jane is well and we do plan to be back in Bonneville, Vegas &
Pahrump (perhaps) in 2008.

Bryan - I have not been subject to the full onslaught of Richard Noble for
so many years I think it was '95! but with the SSC project he needed all
his marketing and selling skills to keep the funding rolling in and some
'over the top claims' could have been made then.  I would suggest there was
not a lot that was unique or particularly superior in engineering terms
with SSC - except how Ron Ayres dealt with the air pressure transients
beneath the car - but as a whole it was a package that got the job done as
safely as possible (rear steer and all!).

I have not had contact with Ron myself for quite a while - just prior to
the JCB effort in '06 I think.  I am sure he would appreciate e mails from
friends made in America during either campaign (SSC & JCB) -  a South
African speed record organiser will be visiting him in October here in the
UK.

Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England
(Who admires the way Keith Turk  promotes LSR with the Camaro ........ a
20th century car showing so well in many hands in the 21st.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Aug 21 17:17:41 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:17:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
In-Reply-To: <c6e.170aa9c6.33fc699a@aol.com>
References: <c6e.170aa9c6.33fc699a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46CB7295.1060703@mayfco.com>

Well that is ok if you are in the shop or pits. But on my car that 
involves a lot of effort. So this woul dbe a home shop exercise. But it 
could be doable.

mayf
FastmetalBDF at aol.com wrote:

>Benn wrote "How do you pressurize the intake  when some of the valves are 
>open ?"
> 
>                      
>                       Back off on the intake rockers to close those valves 
>during  testing ........
> 
> 
>bdf
>
>
>
>************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Tue Aug 21 17:40:53 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:40:53 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] THANK YOU
Message-ID: <000e01c7e44c$b7f28440$6501a8c0@Rick>

I posted on the landracing.com site, but would like to repeat here.
Sam Wheeler graciously allowed Ford Motor Co, and me to borrow his number
999.
It meant a lot to our entire team and I would like to publicly thank Sam...

THANKS SAM....YOU ARE A TRUE GENTLEMAN.

Rick Byrnes

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Aug 21 17:53:31 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:53:31 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Rebuilding and Flow testing
Message-ID: <46CB7AFB.70205@mayfco.com>

Ok who has a favorit efi injector rebuilder and flow tester? I am going 
to get the ones I have refurbed. Lemme know.. urls and or phone numbers or?

mayf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Aug 21 19:01:04 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:01:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] More Odd Ball Questions.
Message-ID: <46CB8AD0.3040803@mayfco.com>

Many thanks to al who have replied to my plight regarding boost and 
other issues. I know most of you could care less, but a lot of you have 
responded and for that thanks! Now I have another question. My motor is 
a Ford 5.0L bored 30  over, 8.5:1 compression level. . I am running a 
mustang computer and wiring harness with a tunner thingy so I can make 
changes to the tune up. A guy has been helping me and he thinks I have 
too much spark advance (24 degrees). ANy one of you Ford guys running 
small block with turbos care to share your spark curve, boost level, and 
fuel you are running? We are trying to get a handle on this thing 
without killing a any more parts.

I appreciate it! Will be out of town next few days but will answer each 
and every post. Please feel free to use PM and stay off the list if you 
want to.

mayf

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 21 20:37:36 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:37:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Fuel Injector Rebuilding and Flow testing
In-Reply-To: <46CB7AFB.70205@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <953149.99087.qm@web52505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Check out the major sponser of the World of Speed. Linder Fuel Injection? See www.saltflats.com
   
  DW

drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
  Ok who has a favorit efi injector rebuilder and flow tester? I am going 
to get the ones I have refurbed. Lemme know.. urls and or phone numbers or?

mayf
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links. 

From Askotto at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 16:26:45 2007
From: Askotto at aol.com (Askotto at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:26:45 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] So how fast should a "Sluggo the wonder pup" go?
Message-ID: <c4e.1b8eb8fc.33fa1da5@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/19/2007 12:22:12 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
ddahlgren at snet.net writes:

Geez get  a grip...though can understand when
a brick Camero is light years faster  than a purpose built car.. With a
little effort you will get the C lakester  to go faster than a G/FL been
236 on 2 liters LOL.. Though it had a rather  short fuse at that pace.. A
C/?L at anything under 250 to 275 is sluggo the  wonder pup.. Sorry...
Dave




First Dave, you're not sorry, quit lying! You love it!!! LOL
 
OK, you think my lakester is a turd and called it "Sluggo the wonder pup".  I 
respect your opinion and actually, I love the name and will change it from  
"Ankle Biter" to "Sluggo the Wonder Pup" when I paint it. What a cool name!!! I 
 really love it!!!
 
OK, two men's opinions on my car. Mine is a little brighter. I see my car  as 
a budding flower ready to bloom, a new baby fresh out of the womb ready for  
the slap in the butt, a palette full of colors with a fresh canvas in front of 
 me, an untapped threshold of ingenuity ready to explode. Enough BS!!!
 
Ok, if you look at my car close, it is a turd. It has poorly aligning  panels 
because I was out of talent and time just before SW 2006. It has a rough  
cross hatch finish of 36 grit sandpaper that is sure to slow it by 50  mph! I 
admit that. It is an embarrassment to me for how crude it looks, on the  outside.
 
But, on the inside I have the ingredients to go much faster.
 
When I ran Texas at 197, I had no traction and went through the traps in  
third gear after unsuccessfully trying to shift it into fourth a number of  
times. I gunned it in third at over half track and hit 197 at the mile. My  first 
run was 171, in second gear after coasting most of the way trying to  get it to 
shift. Obviously the car has much more potential in the mile.
 
When I ran the 222 at 2006 SW, I had over geared intentionally it to "calm  
it down" for my first attempts at the salt. Made sense to me but I never 
changed  the gearing after my licensing pass'. I geared it to run 320. On the 222 
run I  shifted from third to fourth about the 2 mile and cruised the last 3 
miles.  The car actually lost some speed when I shifted into forth. It "screamed"  
through the traps at a "rod friendly" 4000. Can you say BOOOOGGGGG! It should 
 have been spinning 8000-8500!
 
Another thing is I turned 218 on the short course during an easy  throttle 
licensing pass in third gear. Just upping to 222 on the long course  shows the 
big problem. I don't think I've hit the wall yet.
 
So with the correct gearing and a few other enhancements like improved  
induction and more cubes, I'm confident it will runs speeds worthy of a C/GL and  
not a G/FL like you disrespected me with. 
 
Come to think of it, Davey, didn't Kugel & Le Fevers run 295 and  change with 
a C class door slammer like your 260+ mph AA Camaro? Remember, he  who throws 
the first stone must learn how to duck. Quack! LOL
 
Your best buddy
Otto
 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Aug 16 19:14:56 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:14:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Back From The Salt Wars...
Message-ID: <46C4F690.5060205@mayfco.com>

Well, the wife and I rolled in just a few minutes ago. There were goods 
and bads. For the LSR folk, the meet went very well. It was all due to 
the absolutely professional attitudes and never say die mentality  of 
the volunteers. When we arrived, the water was everywhere.Sticky salt on 
everything. Courses were damp as were the pits. But they got better and 
better all due to the effort of the volunteers. I say thanks to each and 
every one of you no matter what poart you played in this years Speed 
WeeK! M hat is off to you all!.  Tweecer folk;  the car ran 172.5 mph or 
so right out of the gate. But you know what? That is the speed at which 
the computer says you are going fast enough (when you use my gear ratio 
and tire size itr comes exactly to this). The speed limiters even though 
set at 127.5 in each scalar cell did not turn it off! Even the littl 
ebox I added to cut the number of pulses in half did not work because it 
apparently resets itself to default when all power is removed. 
Umplugging the VSS did the trick. Now for the good news. After I removed 
the  VSS I was able to get to 184 and change.  Boost was high at 16 psig 
and  somewhere I started loosing metered air. AFRs went to 9.5 , load x 
went to 199.99 and load was into the 150's. Injectors went into 100 
percent duty cycle for a while. Max Pulse widths apparently.  Right 
after the 184, the motor nosed over a bit and ran a solid 175 in the 
last mile, 3 mile for me. When I looked at the data log it was apparent 
that it wasn't notmal. Found a bad gasket at the TB to Turbo hat, fixed 
that and that wasn't it. Still loosing metered air somewhere. Plugs look 
like chimney soot all over them, lol. My turbo bonnes is no longer a 
flat bottom sauce pan as it now has a rounded bottom, lol.

I will post the config file for the A9P I used for this run as well as 
the high boost data log and the one following it. Maybe some of you folk 
have some ideas. I really need to get this sorted some before World of 
Speed next month. Ike, Dan, Sailor Bob, you guys up for helping me out 
here. Time is short and I have a basket of things I need to fix that are 
mechanical (one is getting several hundred pounds of salt off the truck 
trailer and car, lol).

For the Tiger and Alpine folk. I did pretty good all things considering. 
I managed my B license, got my long course approval and had a heck of a 
time. Met a number of you who stopped by and in general, had a dang good 
time! The car ran pretty well cond-sidering it was so rich that it as 
blowing black smoke like a diesel. But heck, that is safe so I prolly 
didn't hurt anything. I was geared for a record run,.    but it would 
not run well on the return run, so bummer. But I'll tak 184and change 
for a top speed for the car! It was due in part to the well wishes you 
all sent!

I need some reall trouble shooting thoughts on where the air is going 
after the turbos. Thoughts? Ideas? Anything will help. I have considered 
the gasket beween the tb and base plate, the gasket between the base 
plate and the manifold, and intake manifold gaskets. Any other ideas?

more later...pooped out right now...

mayf

From dwright at genetics.utah.edu  Tue Aug 21 10:31:10 2007
From: dwright at genetics.utah.edu (Dan Wright)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:31:10 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Bonneville SpeedWeek Notes
Message-ID: <CFE1DF3BA20F424689DA0881A14055BE0166592B@m.hg.genetics.utah.edu>

Hi All

Just wanted to congratulate all who got to run at SW.  A special tip of
the hat to all who set records, or got to park in impound.

There are no soft records at Bonneville.  Any chance to park in the
Bonneville Impound Lot is one heck of an accomplishment.

We lost a head gasket on #790 D/GAlt, but we successfully collected some
data, and hopefully learned a little along the way.

We always consider ourselves among the lucky to be able to participate.



Dan Wright



"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler."

Albert Einstein

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 12 08:47:42 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 08:47:42 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] My take on Speedweek
Message-ID: <329eb8656c28b64cdf00232e2407944e@comcast.net>

The best news for me came out of the driver's meeting.  A little 
background first ... Mike Cook has been building a Honda race car for 
John Hanson who is the manager of three of the Wendover Casino Hotels 
so they have had a chance for some involved conversations.  John is a 
hot rodder, has owned several nice street rods and is sympathetic to 
the needs of the racers.  John has been doing some maneuvering to work 
out a solution for housing problems.

The announcement was that Wendover is once again opening their arms to 
the racers.  They will no longer schedule poker tournaments or golf 
tournaments on the same weekend as Speedweek.  That should open up an 
additional 500 rooms for the racers.  The racers will start racing a 
couple of days later in the week so the heavy hit for rooms will not 
fall on the Friday-Saturday weekend nights when the casinos welcome the 
big gamblers.  The casinos will also not jack prices up on rooms like 
they have been doing.  The whole announcement should come from SCTA/BNI 
with all the details in the next day or so as soon as they can put the 
details on their web site.  By working with both parties in this it's a 
win-win situation.  The racers give some by not needing the bulk of the 
rooms until Sunday night and starting the racing on Monday when the 
Casinos are not so busy and can give the normal prices on rooms.  I'm 
assuming the Utah side motels are going along with this on pricing too.

With two courses they are running a long course car then a short course 
car on each course.  That gives a better chance for the long course 
cars to collect chutes and get off the course at the far end.  The 
course watchers are now the ones telling the starter the course is 
clear although Glen and others in the timing tower can override them if 
necessary.  As with any new program there was some confusion to begin 
with but by early afternoon it seemed to be working more smoothly.  Ron 
Christensen was hopping on the AM radio to keep track of who was 
running and trying to give information on previous speeds and results.  
There were not the longer waits we are used to on the single long 
course.  The lines funnel to course 1 and course 2 with a 40-50 yard 
break between the cars on deck to run and the ones needing drivers to 
suit up and be ready to actually run.  It seemed like things were 
moving more rapidly than in the past.  I'm sure part of it was just 
forcing people to be ready to run when their turn came.

Perhaps it is just me but it seems like there are a LOT of bikes this 
year.  I'll let the Amo boys comment on that since they follow the 
bikes more closely.

mayf was 2 mph off his targeted speed in his afternoon run.  sparky is 
having spark problems with his lakester.  KT got his milk, cookies and 
hopefully his afternoon nap on Friday before the Camaro arrived on the 
salt.  Dave has been sleepless for days getting the engine built and 
installed.  Yesterday they were working on important details like where 
the sponsor decals should be.  Tonya was the designated decal gal from 
what I could tell.

Watch for the Blowfish and the former Flatfire to put up some numbers.  
They found an additional aero 30 mph on the Blowfish in the wind tunnel 
and the liner formerly known as Flatfire is seven feet longer and is 
now powered by one of the Dodge sprint car motors.  The Rad Rides by 
Troy gang have a challenge from Boyd Coddington for the "name" builders 
this year.  I didn't get close enough to actually see what Coddington 
brought.  The Ford Fusion car had a problem with a coolant pump that 
required dropping the entire "engine" to replace.  A design shortcut 
that didn't work out as well as hoped for.
They have the hydrogen cars a long way away from the rest of the pits.  
The pits may be 3/4 of a mile long ... I guess I should actually clock 
the distance on the odometer.

Wes

From karhu at california.com  Tue Aug 21 22:29:08 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:29:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Cleanup
Message-ID: <001c01c7e474$fbbf3560$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

I weighed the salt that I could readily collect from the underside of the car
after getting home--25#.  This probably represented 50-80% of what was on when
I got home (the rest being disolved in the runoff from my careful underchassis
hosing at home).  This after first spraying off (at the West Wendover
hand-wand carwash) an estimated 50-80% of what was on there to begin with,
then driving home about 800 miles including 100 miles of dirt roads in Nevada
over several days.  So I'll guestimate that 20-50% of what was left after the
hand-wand job fell off in transit.  That means my van hauled between a low
limit estimate of 78 pounds and a high limit estimate of 500 (!) pounds of
salt off the flats.  Multiply this by 500 competitors with an average of, say,
6 vehicles per crew, and that amounts to 117 to 750 tons of salt removed per
event (and that doesn't include workers or spectators).  This would be the
equivalent of between 4 and 25 semi-trailers at 30 tons per.   Is this a drop
in the lake vis-a-vis the potash extraction operation, or should we be
concerned about it?
Benn

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Wed Aug 22 01:13:50 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 00:13:50 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
In-Reply-To: <46CB7295.1060703@mayfco.com>
References: <c6e.170aa9c6.33fc699a@aol.com>
  <46CB7295.1060703@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <BF90415B-F964-4335-8572-A9856F53FB18@gmail.com>

I've been told that the throttle body should hold back most (not all,  
but 99%) of the pressure, otherwise, you have issues with your TB too.

On Aug 21, 2007, at 4:17 PM, drmayf wrote:

> Well that is ok if you are in the shop or pits. But on my car that
> involves a lot of effort. So this woul dbe a home shop exercise.  
> But it
> could be doable.
>
> mayf
> FastmetalBDF at aol.com wrote:
>
>> Benn wrote "How do you pressurize the intake  when some of the  
>> valves are
>> open ?"
>>
>>
>>                       Back off on the intake rockers to close  
>> those valves
>> during  testing ........
>>
>>
>> bdf
>>
>>
>>
>> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all- 
>> new AOL at
>> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>> _______________________________________________
>> drmayf at mayfco.com
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> _______________________________________________
> jon.the.wise at gmail.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 22 07:16:17 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:16:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] SPAL USA's "Rocket Ranger" Pickup Sets New Land Speed
	Record
Message-ID: <000501c7e4be$a0754e70$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.prnewswire.com:80/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-
21-2007/0004649375&EDATE=

another happy record holder
dale

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 22 07:20:34 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:20:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Fastest Lap: Go to a race - like the Bathurst 1000
Message-ID: <000501c7e4bf$39798460$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://fastestlap.blogspot.com:80/2007/08/go-to-race-like-bathurst-1000.html

The first paragraph says it all
dale
ssuunnyy and 65 in pahrump, going up though

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Wed Aug 22 07:22:24 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:22:24 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] SPAL USA's "Rocket Ranger" Pickup Sets New Land
 SpeedRecord
In-Reply-To: <000501c7e4be$a0754e70$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165FA@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Congratulations - sounds like the hard work paid off.

Not to spoil the party . . . didn't a Gale Banks truck go 222?

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Dale H Pulju
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:16 AM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] SPAL USA's "Rocket Ranger" Pickup Sets New Land
SpeedRecord

http://www.prnewswire.com:80/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/stor
y/08-
21-2007/0004649375&EDATE=

another happy record holder
dale
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Aug 22 08:18:56 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:18:56 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Photos
Message-ID: <46CC45D0.4070308@mayfco.com>

A request... if any of you took pictures or me and car 1542 at Speed 
week this year or last and WOS last year, would you mind sending them 
tome? I am trying to put together a cd full of noting but jpegs. Just to 
give away to the Sunbeam people or others that want it.

many thanks

mayf

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 22 08:38:36 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:38:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
In-Reply-To: <BF90415B-F964-4335-8572-A9856F53FB18@gmail.com>
References: <c6e.170aa9c6.33fc699a@aol.com> <46CB7295.1060703@mayfco.com>
	<BF90415B-F964-4335-8572-A9856F53FB18@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070822143834.9878C1879BF@autox.team.net>

A properly gasketed exhaust system will permit capping the exhaust to 
further the sealing process. (Leave the plugs in) Then no need to 
loosen rockers. System pressurization results are surprising!!!
Skip



At 12:13 AM 8/22/2007, Jon Bishop wrote:
>I've been told that the throttle body should hold back most (not all,
>but 99%) of the pressure, otherwise, you have issues with your TB too.
>
>On Aug 21, 2007, at 4:17 PM, drmayf wrote:
>
> > Well that is ok if you are in the shop or pits. But on my car that
> > involves a lot of effort. So this woul dbe a home shop exercise.
> > But it
> > could be doable.
> >
> > mayf
> > FastmetalBDF at aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> Benn wrote "How do you pressurize the intake  when some of the
> >> valves are
> >> open ?"
> >>
> >>
> >>                       Back off on the intake rockers to close
> >> those valves
> >> during  testing ........
> >>
> >>
> >> bdf
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-
> >> new AOL at
> >> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> drmayf at mayfco.com
> >>
> >> Land-speed mailing list
> >>
> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> > _______________________________________________
> > jon.the.wise at gmail.com
> >
> > Land-speed mailing list
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>_______________________________________________
>saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Wed Aug 22 09:36:44 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:36:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
References: <c6e.170aa9c6.33fc699a@aol.com>
	<46CB7295.1060703@mayfco.com><BF90415B-F964-4335-8572-A9856F53FB18@gmail.com>
	<20070822143834.9878C1879BF@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <001801c7e4d2$40e5b710$6501a8c0@S>

Skip-- Gotta tell you; this is a neat idea.  One of those "A HAAA" moments.
Ed Weldon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
To: "Jon Bishop" <jon.the.wise at gmail.com>; "LSR List"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Gaskets...


> A properly gasketed exhaust system will permit capping the exhaust to
> further the sealing process. (Leave the plugs in) Then no need to
> loosen rockers. System pressurization results are surprising!!!
> Skip

From rbuck at xmission.com  Wed Aug 22 10:21:26 2007
From: rbuck at xmission.com (Ray Buck)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:21:26 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] SpeedWeek 08?
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070822101454.03548568@xmission.com>

First of all, congrats to Mike Cook and John Hansen for the great 
work on room availability.  I know this will help a whole lotta 
folks, probably including me (I'm gettin too old and decrepit to 
spend the nights in the cab of my Ugly Truck.)

So anyway, I got a call yesterday from a fella who tells me that 
he'll be bringing his flathead powered roadster to SW next year and 
wanted to know what the dates are so he can schedule stuff.  I 
couldn't find anything about it on the SCTA-BNI or Landracing 
websites, so that leads me to believe that dates might not be etched 
in stone yet.

If dates HAVE been set, I'd appreciate any info on it...and if I 
overlooked it on the web sites, please let me know (Hey dummy!  It's 
right there on the site...", etc.)

Thanks,

Ray the Rat

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 22 10:37:04 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:37:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
In-Reply-To: <001801c7e4d2$40e5b710$6501a8c0@S>
References: <c6e.170aa9c6.33fc699a@aol.com> <46CB7295.1060703@mayfco.com>
	<BF90415B-F964-4335-8572-A9856F53FB18@gmail.com>
	<20070822143834.9878C1879BF@autox.team.net>
	<001801c7e4d2$40e5b710$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <20070822163702.9D6A51879F2@autox.team.net>

Ed, wish I could take credit for it. Also, use a leakdown tester to 
pressurize for obvious reasons.
Skip




At 08:36 AM 8/22/2007, Ed Weldon wrote:
>Skip-- Gotta tell you; this is a neat idea.  One of those "A HAAA" moments.
>Ed Weldon
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Skip Higginbotham" <saltrat at pahrump.com>
>To: "Jon Bishop" <jon.the.wise at gmail.com>; "LSR List"
><land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:38 AM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
>
>
> > A properly gasketed exhaust system will permit capping the exhaust to
> > further the sealing process. (Leave the plugs in) Then no need to
> > loosen rockers. System pressurization results are surprising!!!
> > Skip

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 22 10:48:28 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:48:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Gaskets...
Message-ID: <20070822164827.408041879F2@autox.team.net>

I couldn't agree with you more, John. I think the purpose of the 
pressurization exercise is for trouble shooting only. Seems like a 
lot of work for a casual check after a run. But if you are set up for 
it, a poor run might be avoided.
Skip




At 09:23 AM 8/22/2007, John Streeter wrote:
>Just build a good Engine. Tearing an Engine down every run just 
>guarantees that you will eventually forget to do something.  I have 
>already started to build the Engine for my car.  I'm not going to do 
>that One Week Build like they do on TV anymore.
>
>JR Streeter
>S & H Landspeed Racing
><http://www.saltfever.com/>www.saltfever.com

From Jimwprice at aol.com  Wed Aug 22 11:22:03 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:22:03 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
Message-ID: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com>

Has anyone ever run, or heard of running,  5/16" toe in, on  purpose, in an 
LSR car? 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 22 11:40:49 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:40:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
In-Reply-To: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com>
References: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20070822174047.D774A1879DA@autox.team.net>

No, I run them straight. But mine are inline. 5/16 toe in sounds like 
an excessive amount.
Skip



At 10:22 AM 8/22/2007, Jimwprice at aol.com wrote:
>Has anyone ever run, or heard of running,  5/16" toe in, on  purpose, in an
>LSR car?
>
>
>
>************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>_______________________________________________
>saltrat at pahrump.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at ala.net  Wed Aug 22 11:46:54 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:46:54 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
References: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <021f01c7e4e4$6e0b4fe0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Most I've ever heard someone else run is 3/16ths...

Keith.

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 22 12:43:20 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:43:20 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
References: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com>
	<021f01c7e4e4$6e0b4fe0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <002001c7e4ec$51033d10$6400a8c0@Dale>

Is that what you run on the girly camero?
dale
inquiring minds would like to know

Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query


> Most I've ever heard someone else run is 3/16ths...
> 
> Keith.

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 22 15:01:28 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:01:28 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Tearing up the salt
Message-ID: <6845c957698177a9b6cbc2add48fd31a@comcast.net>

Apparently Boyd Coddington's motorhome bogged down after going through 
the thin salt crust.  The rescue vehicles didn't fare much better and 
there is a very long, deep gouge in the salt and mud where they were 
marooned.  Pure speculation on my part ... but I can see the day when 
those big transporters may have to offload their cargo at the end of 
the pavement to preserve the salt surface for racing.  The motorhomes 
may have to be under a certain weight and restricted to a narrow alley 
leading to and from the pits and no using them as push vehicles.

The talk that the salt is back may be more fiction than we would like 
to believe.

Wes

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 22 15:16:32 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:16:32 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] My take on Speedweek
Message-ID: <043fb5847648a91b47daa3a57baa609d@comcast.net>

The posting that came through today was actually sent on the 12th of 
August.  Some of the information is stale and some may not be as 
accurate as I had hoped in regard to some of the announced changes.  
The landracing.com blog gives more complete information from the 
driver's meeting.  Always worth checking EVERY available source.  After 
the USFRA meeting next week I'll try to bring things up to date a bit 
more.

Wes

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Wed Aug 22 15:30:15 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:30:15 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Tearing up the salt
References: <6845c957698177a9b6cbc2add48fd31a@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46CCAAE4.000001.03408@TOM>

Wes,

I don't know where Coddington's motor home  bogged down, but the salt is
very thin in many places. A few years ago, I believe at a WOS Meet, a motor
home got buried near the starting line near the dike.

 I also remember a Diesel Semi-Trailer that came into the pits a few years
ago and got buried. The driver had nothing to do with racing, just curious I
guess. But I am sure he had some explaining to do to his boss.  We had the
pits just off the end of the access road on the mountain side of the
International Course. The crust was very thin in that location.

There are many other places where the salt is thin. I suspect that one of
the big problems with the salt thickness, at least around the access road,
is the building of the freeway and the access road which does not allow the
water to move freely back and forth as it did in the past. I suspect that
there is a salt layer with mud on top and a salt layer on top of that mud.
It would be interesting to take a core sample and see just what is under the
surface salt.

 Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Wed Aug 22 15:37:58 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:37:58 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Tearing up the salt
References: <6845c957698177a9b6cbc2add48fd31a@comcast.net>
	<46CCAAE4.000001.03408@TOM>
Message-ID: <00bf01c7e504$b5f59930$6401a8c0@Glens>

Being somewhat farther east this area is thin from the mining. We warned 
people about the thin salt and to not take heavy vehicles down the #2 return 
road. I guess they didn't have a radio on and missed the info we gave out.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
To: "list LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "Wester Potter" 
<wester6935 at comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Tearing up the salt


> Wes,
>
> I don't know where Coddington's motor home  bogged down, but the salt is
> very thin in many places. A few years ago, I believe at a WOS Meet, a 
> motor
> home got buried near the starting line near the dike.
>
> I also remember a Diesel Semi-Trailer that came into the pits a few years
> ago and got buried. The driver had nothing to do with racing, just curious 
> I
> guess. But I am sure he had some explaining to do to his boss.  We had the
> pits just off the end of the access road on the mountain side of the
> International Course. The crust was very thin in that location.
>
> There are many other places where the salt is thin. I suspect that one of
> the big problems with the salt thickness, at least around the access road,
> is the building of the freeway and the access road which does not allow 
> the
> water to move freely back and forth as it did in the past. I suspect that
> there is a salt layer with mud on top and a salt layer on top of that mud.
> It would be interesting to take a core sample and see just what is under 
> the
> surface salt.
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> faint_grain.jpg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 
> elephant_en.gif]
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com  Wed Aug 22 15:42:03 2007
From: Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com (Clay, Dale)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:42:03 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Tearing up the salt
In-Reply-To: <00bf01c7e504$b5f59930$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <00bf01c7e504$b5f59930$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA0FC@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>

I guess they didn't have a radio on and missed the info we gave out.
Glen

Guess they learned THAT lesson!  :)

Dale C.

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient or employees of MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited.   If
you received this in error, pleasecontact the sender by email and delete the
material from any computer.

From kturk at ala.net  Wed Aug 22 15:45:59 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:45:59 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
References: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com><021f01c7e4e4$6e0b4fe0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<002001c7e4ec$51033d10$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <024201c7e505$d5132f70$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

No we run 1/8th "....  in of course...

K

From ed at vetteracing.com  Wed Aug 22 16:03:05 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:03:05 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Tearing up the salt
Message-ID: <W1995026554189471187820185@webmail13>

As you know, this isn't the first time a motorhome has gotten stuckjust off
the starting line. The damage done in the Coddington incidentmay never heal.
But some years it is hard as I-80 on the returnroads so it might not make
sense to make a hard & fast rule(no salt pun intemded)
Ed

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wester Potter [mailto:wester6935 at comcast.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 02:01 PM
>To: 'list LSR'
>Subject: [Land-speed] Tearing up the salt
>
>Apparently Boyd Coddington's motorhome bogged down after going through
>the thin salt crust. The rescue vehicles didn't fare much better and
>there is a very long, deep gouge in the salt and mud where they were
>marooned. Pure speculation on my part ... but I can see the day when
>those big transporters may have to offload their cargo at the end of
>the pavement to preserve the salt surface for racing. The motorhomes
>may have to be under a certain weight and restricted to a narrow alley
>leading to and from the pits and no using them as push vehicles.
>
>The talk that the salt is back may be more fiction than we would like
>to believe.
>
>Wes
>_______________________________________________

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 22 16:08:08 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:08:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
References: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com><021f01c7e4e4$6e0b4fe0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<002001c7e4ec$51033d10$6400a8c0@Dale>
	<024201c7e505$d5132f70$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <002201c7e508$eca78890$6400a8c0@Dale>

ok more info for my wannna be girly camero
dale
ssuunnyy and 100+ in pahrump

Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query


> No we run 1/8th "....  in of course...
> 
> K

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Wed Aug 22 18:54:40 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:54:40 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Tearing up the salt
Message-ID: <c10.19d3a007.33fe34d0@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/22/2007 5:32:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
saltracer at awwwsome.com writes:

There  are many other places where the salt is thin. I suspect that one of
the big  problems with the salt thickness, at least around the access road,
is the  building of the freeway and the access road which does not allow the
water  to move freely back and forth as it did in the past. I suspect that
there  is a salt layer with mud on top and a salt layer on top of that mud.
It  would be interesting to take a core sample and see just what is under  the
surface salt.

Tom, Redding CA - #216  D/FCC




I wonder if ground penetrating radar could differentiate the sub surface  
conditions? There has been a lot of it used in fly overs for archaeologic  digs 
that shows roads, depths of long buried civilizations,  etc. 
Is there other existent technology like Infrared or the like that has a  
similar application? 
It'd be great if we could run an ultralight over the entire area and  pick 
out the best surface and subsurface.
Bob, or a used Huey?,W





************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Aug 23 06:00:11 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 05:00:11 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Stacey's Auto Parts Resources: Legendary Mercedes-Benz
 'Silver Arrow' At SeeRed 2007
Message-ID: <000501c7e57d$28e29880$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://thefastestautoparts.blogspot.com:80/2007/08/legendary-mercedes-benz-si
lver-arrow-at.html

more lsr history
dale
dark and 66 in pahrump

From jimbelford at msn.com  Thu Aug 23 09:09:38 2007
From: jimbelford at msn.com (Jim Belford)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:09:38 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] WOS
Message-ID: <BAY107-DAV14B0E61EE078220C6CBF31DFD60@phx.gbl>

Will anyone be at WOS that can help me on September 12th and 13th.  I have
someone coming out on Friday and Saturday but could use a driver (for the
chase truck) on Wed. and Thursday.

 

Thanks, Jim 

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Thu Aug 23 15:47:58 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:47:58 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek '07
Message-ID: <46CE008E.000009.01348@TOM>

Hello to all,

If you want the "rest of the story" on our Speedweek adventures, go to my
web site @ www.bryantauto.com and click on Bryant Racing, then on 2007 under
Archives.

We are regrouping and rebuilding for the WOS.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_usa1.gif]

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Thu Aug 23 16:31:04 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:31:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek '07
References: <46CE008E.000009.01348@TOM>
Message-ID: <000601c7e5d5$4add2470$6400a8c0@Dale>

we were two to three cars behind you and one lane over for two days , were 
wondering how you did, sorry about the blow up., great site I have saved it 
for future looks
dale
just finished compression test on 57 looks bad maybe new engine
100+ in pahrump

Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek '07


> Hello to all,
>
> If you want the "rest of the story" on our Speedweek adventures, go to my
> web site @ www.bryantauto.com and click on Bryant Racing, then on 2007 
> under
> Archives.
>
> We are regrouping and rebuilding for the WOS.
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Thu Aug 23 16:40:51 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:40:51 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Pictures
Message-ID: <46CE0CF3.000003.04072@TOM>

Hello to all,

I have also posted some pictures that Bob Brissetti sent of the stuck
motorhome and the consequences.

Go to www.bryantauto click on Bryant Racing and scroll to bottom and then
click on Photo Albums.

Tom, Redding CA  -  #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_usa1.gif]

From saltfever at comcast.net  Thu Aug 23 16:51:51 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:51:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Edit your replies?
Message-ID: <000001c7e5d8$32e23290$3574a943@dim8100>

Jon:

A hearty "thank you" for editing your response!  For those of us receiving
the Digest Format, it makes it so much easier to follow a thread. You
consideration is much appreciated. -Elon  

 

Date: 21 Aug 2007: From: Jon Bishop Subject: Re: Gaskets...

> <snipped for brevety>

> Helpful hints?  Thoughts?

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Aug 23 17:19:22 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:19:22 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Pictures (of soft salt)
References: <46CE0CF3.000003.04072@TOM>
Message-ID: <004301c7e5dc$0e67d4c0$6501a8c0@S>

Does anyone know what happened after the pics were taken?  Did they finally
get everything out of there that evening or did even more equipment have to
come in to finish the job?   Uhhh..... Is it finished yet?
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
To: "Landspeed" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:40 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Pictures
> I have also posted some pictures that Bob Brissetti sent of the stuck
> motorhome and the consequences.
> Go to www.bryantauto click on Bryant Racing and scroll to bottom and then
> click on Photo Albums.
> Tom, Redding CA  -  #216 D/FCC

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Fri Aug 24 11:44:22 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:44:22 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] The Goldenhawk Streamliner Project: Landspeed Louise,
 "  Canadians missed you"!
Message-ID: <000501c7e676$67c03e50$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://goldenhawkproject.blogspot.com:80/2007/08/landspeed-louise-canadians-m
issed-you.html

Louise Ann Nothe on way back
dale
putting 4bl manifold on 57 chev, compression test yesterday ok
ssuunnyy and going to 106 in pahrump

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Aug 24 13:57:48 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:57:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
In-Reply-To: <002001c7e4ec$51033d10$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com>
	<021f01c7e4e4$6e0b4fe0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<002001c7e4ec$51033d10$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <46CF383C.6020401@mayfco.com>

What's a "camero"?

mayf


Dale H Pulju wrote:

>Is that what you run on the girly camero?
>dale
>inquiring minds would like to know
>
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
>
>
>  
>
>>Most I've ever heard someone else run is 3/16ths...
>>
>>Keith.
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltrat at pahrump.com  Fri Aug 24 14:17:08 2007
From: saltrat at pahrump.com (Skip Higginbotham)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:17:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
In-Reply-To: <46CF383C.6020401@mayfco.com>
References: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com>
	<021f01c7e4e4$6e0b4fe0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<002001c7e4ec$51033d10$6400a8c0@Dale> <46CF383C.6020401@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <20070824201703.5BE96187A50@autox.team.net>

Made in Mexico?????
Skip




At 12:57 PM 8/24/2007, drmayf wrote:
>What's a "camero"?
>
>mayf
>
>
>Dale H Pulju wrote:
>
> >Is that what you run on the girly camero?
> >dale
> >inquiring minds would like to know

From jon at infodestruction.com  Fri Aug 24 14:16:38 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:16:38 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
In-Reply-To: <46CF383C.6020401@mayfco.com>
References: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com>
	<021f01c7e4e4$6e0b4fe0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<002001c7e4ec$51033d10$6400a8c0@Dale> <46CF383C.6020401@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <F7E7C36D-874E-424C-ACD4-D35025FC529B@infodestruction.com>

On Aug 24, 2007, at 3:57 PM, drmayf wrote:

What's a "camero"?

mayf


Mayf, it's amazing how common that spelling is.  Back in the mid-80s,  
when I sold cars at the local Ford dealership, the used car manager  
used the "Camero" version all the time.  I guess we're stuck with it.


                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Fri Aug 24 14:19:28 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:19:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
References: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com>
	<021f01c7e4e4$6e0b4fe0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<002001c7e4ec$51033d10$6400a8c0@Dale> <46CF383C.6020401@mayfco.com>
	<F7E7C36D-874E-424C-ACD4-D35025FC529B@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c7e68c$13490170$6400a8c0@Dale>

youse guys are picking on my spelling?
dale
ssuunnyy and going to look at aluminum heads, manifold and carb for 57

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jon Wennerberg
  To: drmayf at mayfco.com
  Cc: Dale H Pulju ; land-speed at autox.team.net
  Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 1:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query




  On Aug 24, 2007, at 3:57 PM, drmayf wrote:


  What's a "camero"?


  mayf




  Mayf, it's amazing how common that spelling is.  Back in the mid-80s, when I
sold cars at the local Ford dealership, the used car manager used the "Camero"
version all the time.  I guess we're stuck with it.




                  Jon Wennerberg
  Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
               Marquette, Michigan
               (that's 'way up north)

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Fri Aug 24 18:02:19 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:02:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Hypothetical toe in query
In-Reply-To: <20070824201703.5BE96187A50@autox.team.net>
References: <bc0.1a3f52c3.33fdcabb@aol.com>
	<021f01c7e4e4$6e0b4fe0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<002001c7e4ec$51033d10$6400a8c0@Dale> <46CF383C.6020401@mayfco.com>
	<20070824201703.5BE96187A50@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <1BE01D4A-0E3B-4333-A41E-1EF988DABC05@gmail.com>

On Aug 24, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Skip Higginbotham wrote:

> Made in Mexico?????
> Skip
> At 12:57 PM 8/24/2007, drmayf wrote:
>> What's a "camero"?
>>
>> mayf
>>
>>
>> Dale H Pulju wrote:
>>
>>> Is that what you run on the girly camero?
>>> dale
>>> inquiring minds would like to know
> _______________________________________________

Yep, it's a mexican camera.

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Fri Aug 24 21:52:52 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:52:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] 1925 Sunbeam Land Speed Record Open Wheel Race Car at
 the Pebble Beach Concours d' Elegance 2007 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Message-ID: <000501c7e6cb$6ed87ea0$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.flickr.com:80/photos/ikeya/1215842261/

Seagrave sunbeam tiger to be at Pebble Beach
dale
dark an 90 in pahrump

From adin at frontier.net  Fri Aug 24 22:46:19 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:46:19 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] 1925 Sunbeam Land Speed Record Open Wheel Race Car
 at the Pebble Beach Concours d' Elegance 2007 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
In-Reply-To: <000501c7e6cb$6ed87ea0$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7e6cb$6ed87ea0$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <20070824224619.tgm5t53q80swckgw@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

More pics from 2004

http://images6.fotki.com/v90/free/b7e40/4/43175/147329/t03-vi.jpg?1089518730

http://images6.fotki.com/v91/free/b7e40/4/43175/147329/t04-vi.jpg?1089518808

http://images6.fotki.com/v90/free/b7e40/4/43175/147329/t05-vi.jpg?1089518919

http://images6.fotki.com/v90/free/b7e40/4/43175/147329/t07-vi.jpg?1089518987

http://images6.fotki.com/v90/free/b7e40/4/43175/147329/t08-vi.jpg?1089519032

http://images6.fotki.com/v90/free/b7e40/4/43175/147329/t06-vi.jpg?1089519113

http://images6.fotki.com/v91/free/b7e40/4/43175/147329/t09-vi.jpg?1089519179

http://images6.fotki.com/v91/free/b7e40/4/43175/147329/t10-vi.jpg?1089519277

David in Durango






Quoting Dale H Pulju <d.pulju at pahrump.com>:

> http://www.flickr.com:80/photos/ikeya/1215842261/
>
> Seagrave sunbeam tiger to be at Pebble Beach
> dale
> dark an 90 in pahrump
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 25 09:57:14 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 08:57:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Mater Cylinder
Message-ID: <657757.97130.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm looking some Wilwood master cylinders.  I notice that they have a choice between .750 and .850 bore.  I understand hydraulics, but I don't know which master cylinder would be better for my application.  It's a 1977 Firebird with manual brakes for LSR only.   Drums rear and discs front. It appears that the .850 would give me more brake for the amount of foot pressure, but why is the .750 even offered?  Any suggestions? 
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas

       
---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Aug 25 10:46:59 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:46:59 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
Message-ID: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Well I've pondered this question quite a bit and wanted to bring it up simply
as a topic of discussion.

We all assume we are gods at driving race cars... simply cause we're guys (
for the most part )   My question is how good are we really?  Most of us are
semi older ( not all of us want to admit that-Tonya signed us up for AARP this
morning)... our reflexes are what they are... and our experience is truly
limited to the occasional opportunities that we have each year...

David's recommended a couple of different driving schools to increase our
skills and Both Tonya and I are interested in doing that...  mostly because we
think it would be a blast and increase our knowledge base...

One of the things that I can say for both of us is that we don't drive over
our skill level...  we have a tendency if anything to be a bit conservative...
but even with that said... what is our skill level and how can we increase it
with so few opportunities....

Any thoughts on the whole subject?  or anything specific?

Keith

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sat Aug 25 10:54:13 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:54:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <1ABB277DA67B4063AEAEB5B11875355E@LMS>

Try driving on slick wet dirt---not gravel---roads or on ice and snow---this 
is sorta tounge in cheek---
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills


> Well I've pondered this question quite a bit and wanted to bring it up 
> simply
> as a topic of discussion.
>
> We all assume we are gods at driving race cars... simply cause we're guys 
> (
> for the most part )   My question is how good are we really?  Most of us 
> are
> semi older ( not all of us want to admit that-Tonya signed us up for AARP 
> this
> morning)... our reflexes are what they are... and our experience is truly
> limited to the occasional opportunities that we have each year...
>
> David's recommended a couple of different driving schools to increase our
> skills and Both Tonya and I are interested in doing that...  mostly 
> because we
> think it would be a blast and increase our knowledge base...
>
> One of the things that I can say for both of us is that we don't drive 
> over
> our skill level...  we have a tendency if anything to be a bit 
> conservative...
> but even with that said... what is our skill level and how can we increase 
> it
> with so few opportunities....
>
> Any thoughts on the whole subject?  or anything specific?

From Jimwprice at aol.com  Sat Aug 25 10:54:49 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 12:54:49 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
Message-ID: <c96.1733da88.3401b8d9@aol.com>

I quit driving in the late fifties.  Even youth was no substitute for  skill. 
  I spun at the drags, the lakes and Bonneville.  Not only  that but other 
drivers were invariably at least five miles an hour faster in the  same car.  My 
nick name was balloon foot.  I like working on the cars  and being a 
participating member of the LSR fraternity but don't miss the  driving.



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sat Aug 25 10:57:08 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:57:08 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Mater Cylinder
In-Reply-To: <657757.97130.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <657757.97130.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <417402577B0F477A979876EC378B0C9E@LMS>

Dick, I would guess that the smaller gives you more pressure for foot effort 
and the big one gives you more volume----check the volumes on the one you 
are taking off? Howe makes a great selection of master cyls. also.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211 

From joetimney at dol.net  Sat Aug 25 12:08:31 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 13:08:31 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Mater Cylinder
In-Reply-To: <657757.97130.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <657757.97130.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46D0701F.5010705@dol.net>

Pressure VS Volume... Drum brakes require more Volume. Call Wilwood for 
their recommendation. They will ask about your pedal ratio so have the 
number available.
joe


Dick J wrote:
> I'm looking some Wilwood master cylinders.  I notice that they have a choice between .750 and .850 bore.  I understand hydraulics, but I don't know which master cylinder would be better for my application.  It's a 1977 Firebird with manual brakes for LSR only.   Drums rear and discs front. It appears that the .850 would give me more brake for the amount of foot pressure, but why is the .750 even offered?  Any suggestions? 
>    
>   DickJ
>   In East Texas

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 25 11:32:23 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:32:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <632359.53693.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Yeah, Jim Miller and I have been discussing the subject of drivers recently.
   
  Jim had experiences at Speedweek with new drivers, specifically, older and heavier drivers who are rookies. He had several incidences of this group during the bailout drills. The new to the sport drivers with physical challenges appear to be a safety issue with potential legal consequences that could put our racing in jeopardy.
   
  Some, but not all, cases involved a gentleman who is partially paralyzed. He could get in the car but could not exit without assistance. At his pleading Jim spent a large amount of time designing a canopy fix and developing a bailout procedure. We went to their pits after they had practiced the drill and claimed that they were ready to test. As we watched I thought to myself that this is not a good thing. The driver was able to get out of the car with verbal coaching and support from the crew. I think that in a fire situation all that  would have been forgotten in an instant.

  After more practice they decided that they would use a different driver. Broke the gentleman's heart, a dream shattered.
   
  Other things we saw was a driver with an oxygen bottle, one car (four drivers) none of whom could exit the car unassisted with full gear while under observation. Another driver who became disoriented and dizzy even though he was wearing a cool suit and a fresh air pump to the helmet, I think I heard that the tube to the helmet was pinched shut in this case.
   
  All of these and more should be addressed by a doctor's release for  drivers over 60 maybe. Other suggestions?
   
  DW
Keith Turk <kturk at ala.net> wrote:
  Well I've pondered this question quite a bit and wanted to bring it up simply
as a topic of discussion.

We all assume we are gods at driving race cars... simply cause we're guys (
for the most part ) My question is how good are we really? Most of us are
semi older ( not all of us want to admit that-Tonya signed us up for AARP this
morning)... our reflexes are what they are... and our experience is truly
limited to the occasional opportunities that we have each year...

David's recommended a couple of different driving schools to increase our
skills and Both Tonya and I are interested in doing that... mostly because we
think it would be a blast and increase our knowledge base...

One of the things that I can say for both of us is that we don't drive over
our skill level... we have a tendency if anything to be a bit conservative...
but even with that said... what is our skill level and how can we increase it
with so few opportunities....

Any thoughts on the whole subject? or anything specific?

Keith
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed


       
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 

From karhu at california.com  Sat Aug 25 11:43:20 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:43:20 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <000f01c7e73f$6de923e0$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

In my twenties I roadraced.  Now in my fifties, I realized that I'd lost
a lot of my "edge", and I don't just mean reaction times (which
apparently start to fade as we leave our teens).  My solution?  AutoX.
This is low cost ($40 per outing or so), low risk, fun, and you can ride
with others during the runs.  I've improved a bunch, and I feel more
confident in my street driving as well.  I'm now running in the middle
of the pack for my class, which I feel good about.  While I run my old
'vette or MR2 on street tires, you can run pretty much anything that
won't roll over (e.g., no SUVs or pickups).  You need a recent
Snell-approved helmet.  Several people around here run recent full-size
sedans including rear-drive Impalas and Cadillacs, to add to the mix of
various sports cars and small sedans and coupes.  Your grocery-getter
will probably work fine, or share a car with someone who has something
with a bit more spunk.  Low-friction surfaces are often available in the
winter and spring (they run rain or shine).  While nothing will simulate
a spin at 200 (autoX speeds are typically 25-65), you can improve your
"feel" for impending slides and spins, as well as improve your control
of them.
Benn
opinion worth what you paid for it...

> Well I've pondered this question quite a bit and wanted to bring it up
simply
> as a topic of discussion.
>
> We all assume we are gods at driving race cars... simply cause we're
guys (
> for the most part )   My question is how good are we really?  Most of
us are
> semi older ( not all of us want to admit that-Tonya signed us up for
AARP this
> morning)... our reflexes are what they are... and our experience is
truly
> limited to the occasional opportunities that we have each year...
> Any thoughts on the whole subject?  or anything specific?
>
> Keith

From karhu at california.com  Sat Aug 25 11:54:49 2007
From: karhu at california.com (Benn)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:54:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Car Exiting Problems
References: <632359.53693.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001401c7e741$07ecd300$6501a8c0@sonic.net>

I'm glad someone is paying attention to this issue.  What I saw in the
tech inspection area made me v. concerned, but I didn't feel that it was
my place to interfere.  I don't understand why there is no specific time
limit to get out of the car.  In the student Formula SAE competitions, I
believe the drivers had to get out in five or ten seconds.  At least one
individual at inspection at this year's Speed Week took at least three
minutes, and even that wasn't satisfactorily performed, in my view.   I
would think that 20 seconds should be a reasonable upper limit.
To cover the liability, perhaps anyone who can't exit in the required
time and who still wants to run would be required to purchase a bond or
insurance policy with SCTA-BNI as the named insured.  I dunno, I'm not a
lawyer, but I hate to see people not able to live their dream, so I
would hope there are ways to make it work.  Maybe there is a mechanical
solution?  (Explosive fasteners, soft-ejection seats,....?)
Benn

>   Jim had experiences at Speedweek with new drivers, specifically,
older and heavier drivers who are rookies. He had several incidences of
this group during the bailout drills. The new to the sport drivers with
physical challenges appear to be a safety issue with potential legal
consequences that could put our racing in jeopardy.
>   All of these and more should be addressed by a doctor's release for
drivers over 60 maybe. Other suggestions?
>
>   DW

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sat Aug 25 11:57:32 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 13:57:32 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <632359.53693.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00aa01c7e741$6a40ca70$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

I have a couple of rather specific thoughts..
First the guy with the O2 bottle is a no go sorry.. Think fire.. Look at
the rules for nitrous bottle containment and go from there. This is not
a jet fighter LOL.

Second motor racing in general is not an equal opportunity thing for the
disabled. I am truly sorry for life's misfortunes but some things are
just more than realistic if you can not meet the basic equipment list of
capability and getting out during a mishap top of the list. Start with
what can go wrong and work your way to what might go right enjoyment
wise..

Third the driver owner rider crew can sign anything and guess what Aunt
Minnie did not and is now psychologically traumatized from the loss of
her nephew.. Don't laugh it is real.

Fourth never be your own judge of capability no matter what get a
realistic check ride from a disinterested person. This is not to say I
don't think Keith or Tonya are not only that it is a very dangerous
attitude to take. I have in years gone by driven a variety of race cars
even had a bike that I gave away as I knew it would kill me very easily.
I decided a long while ago though I love racing I will never drive to my
aspirations. If I had 2 fantasies in my life it would be to turn just
one lap at the Daytona road course in a GTP car in the 1:40 range but it
won't happen right up with never riding a pro stock bike at over 200..
Or for that matter riding the last mile with Don Vesco or Tom Burkland
it must be a real hoot at 450 + out the back door.. Maybe I am too tough
on myself maybe not never crashed a race car that I drove though the
bike another story I am not a happy camper when it rains sigh everything
hurts..

Sorry I sniped out the original post between Dan and Keith but this
looks too long with it to pass the size filter..sigh..
Dave


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date:
8/17/2007 5:43 PM

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Sat Aug 25 12:28:21 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:28:21 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <46D074C1.000006.02464@TOM>

Keith,

Although, I agree that it would be fun to take some driving courses where
you get to drive the road course and  such, I don't believe that that type
of experience is all that useful for what we do.

Having spent quite a bit of time in the seat at Bonneville and the Lakes, I
have this to say... I have driven both roadsters and coupes, stock wheelbase
and extended wheelbase, my thinking is that the skills needed are not of the
road racing nature, but just plain common sense. We all, I suspect, have a
tendency to stay on the throttle when it would be more prudent to lift a bit
 I have spun at Bonneville (never at the lakes) twice in the roadster and
twice in the Pierson Coupe, every time it was self-inflicted.

It is true that as we age our reflexes slow a bit. I think the bigger
problem is that we get too comfortable in the cockpit. Regardless of what we
might feel, we are over our head on every run. Anyone who thinks his or her
driving skills can overcome a dangerous situation is probably going to find
themselves in trouble. There are so many things that go through the mind on
a run, that I find I have to force myself to concentrate on keeping it
between the black lines and let some of the other thoughts slide. The best
way to avoid trouble is to realize that what you are doing is serious
business and total focus is necessary. The throttle works both ways and if
you are getting uncomfortable with the run, you should probably lift your
foot.

I realize that there are situations where mechanical or other conditions can
take you by surprise, but to remain humble and focused are the best tools in
your box.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sat Aug 25 13:06:52 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 12:06:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Car Exiting Problems
References: <632359.53693.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<001401c7e741$07ecd300$6501a8c0@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <000601c7e74b$1937cfc0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

Every time I put a different driver in my car, he/she was required to 
demonstrate a 20 second bail out at inspection. I am sure that is done for 
everyone not just me.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Benn" <karhu at california.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Car Exiting Problems


> I'm glad someone is paying attention to this issue.  What I saw in the
> tech inspection area made me v. concerned, but I didn't feel that it was
> my place to interfere.  I don't understand why there is no specific time
> limit to get out of the car.  In the student Formula SAE competitions, I
> believe the drivers had to get out in five or ten seconds.  At least one
> individual at inspection at this year's Speed Week took at least three
> minutes, and even that wasn't satisfactorily performed, in my view.   I
> would think that 20 seconds should be a reasonable upper limit.
> To cover the liability, perhaps anyone who can't exit in the required
> time and who still wants to run would be required to purchase a bond or
> insurance policy with SCTA-BNI as the named insured.  I dunno, I'm not a
> lawyer, but I hate to see people not able to live their dream, so I
> would hope there are ways to make it work.  Maybe there is a mechanical
> solution?  (Explosive fasteners, soft-ejection seats,....?)
> Benn

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sat Aug 25 14:01:29 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 13:01:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Car Exiting Problems
References: <632359.53693.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com><001401c7e741$07ecd300$6501a8c0@sonic.net>
	<000601c7e74b$1937cfc0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
	<BAY104-W140412F7BDFE72C1907BCCCBD00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001901c7e752$ba906bf0$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

You mean Miler Mike was just picking on me? I always kind of felt so. Plymouth
envy.  RF
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: John Streeter
  To: Rich Fox
  Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:25 PM
  Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Car Exiting Problems


  Sometimes it depends on who you are. I've seen it too. But not when I was
inspecting, I do not care who the individual was. Since I did'nt know to many
people.  That was the best part of being New to the venue.

  JR Streeter
  S & H Landspeed Racing
  www.saltfever.com
  \easy! Try it!

From svoboda at marsweb.com  Sat Aug 25 14:33:12 2007
From: svoboda at marsweb.com (rex svoboda)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:33:12 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] driver skills
Message-ID: <46D09208.6090406@marsweb.com>

If we want to continue driving race vehicles late into life we must .... 
practice, practice and practice.  Anything to keep the reflexes as sharp 
as age will let them be has to be good.  More important practice at the 
limits of control to keep mental judgment from rusting.   Many 
opportunities exist: autocross, driving schools, motorcycles, 
snowmobiles, lawn mowers, skiing (?)- this is America we will race 
anything.   My limited experience tells me that Bonneville high speed 
driving requires a sensitivity to the smallest bit of  vehicle feedback 
and quick mental judgment to make the right decision.  We can cross 
train for this all year long.
hoping to keep at it for a while   Rex

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Aug 25 14:40:07 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 13:40:07 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <46D093A7.7020008@mayfco.com>

Well, good to see Tonya has you figured out, old man... Interesting 
topic. If you are talking about driving skills for street application, 
the unfortunate part here is that the other 99% of us really don't know 
how to drive well. So learning how to dodge them would be good but they 
are the ones that will get you killed. If you are talking about 
motorsports driving skills well, yeah. But not many of us will ever 
venture onto a road course and I bet no diving school around can tell 
you about salt, lol... I woul dbe interested in hearing what you come up 
with in the nature of driving schools for codgers like us.

mayf
Keith Turk wrote:

>Well I've pondered this question quite a bit and wanted to bring it up simply
>as a topic of discussion.
>
>We all assume we are gods at driving race cars... simply cause we're guys (
>for the most part )   My question is how good are we really?  Most of us are
>semi older ( not all of us want to admit that-Tonya signed us up for AARP this
>morning)... our reflexes are what they are... and our experience is truly
>limited to the occasional opportunities that we have each year...
>
>David's recommended a couple of different driving schools to increase our
>skills and Both Tonya and I are interested in doing that...  mostly because we
>think it would be a blast and increase our knowledge base...
>
>One of the things that I can say for both of us is that we don't drive over
>our skill level...  we have a tendency if anything to be a bit conservative...
>but even with that said... what is our skill level and how can we increase it
>with so few opportunities....
>
>Any thoughts on the whole subject?  or anything specific?
>
>Keith
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Aug 25 14:42:47 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:42:47 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] driver skills
In-Reply-To: <46D09208.6090406@marsweb.com>
References: <46D09208.6090406@marsweb.com>
Message-ID: <88179ea6d5ebd1c87d3f7209ceb66b9c@comcast.net>

Driving across Tennessee on I-40 could be considered good practice as 
well.  Requires exacting vehicle placement and control as well as 
careful judgment finding open spots to avoid the slower cars ahead of 
you.  Next time I go that way I plan on using another corridor.  I 
realize my reactions aren't as good as they used  to be.  I try to make 
up for it by being aware of where everything is located that is 
traveling the same direction.

Wes
On Aug 25, 2007, at 2:33 PM, rex svoboda wrote:

> If we want to continue driving race vehicles late into life we must 
> ....
> practice, practice and practice.  Anything to keep the reflexes as 
> sharp
> as age will let them be has to be good.  More important practice at the
> limits of control to keep mental judgment from rusting.   Many
> opportunities exist: autocross, driving schools, motorcycles,
> snowmobiles, lawn mowers, skiing (?)- this is America we will race
> anything.   My limited experience tells me that Bonneville high speed
> driving requires a sensitivity to the smallest bit of  vehicle feedback
> and quick mental judgment to make the right decision.  We can cross
> train for this all year long.
> hoping to keep at it for a while   Rex
> _______________________________________________

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sat Aug 25 14:44:48 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:44:48 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <46D093A7.7020008@mayfco.com>
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46D093A7.7020008@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <dc5d3c40a5ff84f48fd891658bc96ec4@comcast.net>

My wife tells me the AARP has some driving courses.

Wes

On Aug 25, 2007, at 2:40 PM, drmayf wrote:

> Well, good to see Tonya has you figured out, old man... Interesting
> topic. If you are talking about driving skills for street application,
> the unfortunate part here is that the other 99% of us really don't know
> how to drive well. So learning how to dodge them would be good but they
> are the ones that will get you killed. If you are talking about
> motorsports driving skills well, yeah. But not many of us will ever
> venture onto a road course and I bet no diving school around can tell
> you about salt, lol... I woul dbe interested in hearing what you come 
> up
> with in the nature of driving schools for codgers like us.
>
> mayf
> Keith Turk wrote:

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 25 14:58:16 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:58:16 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <001801c7e75a$b325f2b0$2101a8c0@WinXP>

I'm not sure what kind of skills you're thinking about developing or what 
kind of driving school experience you would expect.

I recently did the one-day Chrysler SRT driving school that's run by Richard 
Petty people. It included autocross, drag racing, and the road course at the 
BeaveRun racing complex in Waumpum, Pa. Tested my skills (such as they are), 
learned some, and it was a fun experience. Thought it was worth the cost 
(especially since my son paid for my $500 ticket).

I put together a document with photos describing our SRT experience, if any 
body wants to see it I'll be glad to email it to you off-list.

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:46 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills


> Well I've pondered this question quite a bit and wanted to bring it up 
> simply
> as a topic of discussion.
>
> We all assume we are gods at driving race cars... simply cause we're guys 
> (
> for the most part )   My question is how good are we really?  Most of us 
> are
> semi older ( not all of us want to admit that-Tonya signed us up for AARP 
> this
> morning)... our reflexes are what they are... and our experience is truly
> limited to the occasional opportunities that we have each year...
>
> David's recommended a couple of different driving schools to increase our
> skills and Both Tonya and I are interested in doing that...  mostly 
> because we
> think it would be a blast and increase our knowledge base...
>
> One of the things that I can say for both of us is that we don't drive 
> over
> our skill level...  we have a tendency if anything to be a bit 
> conservative...
> but even with that said... what is our skill level and how can we increase 
> it
> with so few opportunities....
>
> Any thoughts on the whole subject?  or anything specific?
>
> Keith

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 25 15:11:08 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:11:08 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46D093A7.7020008@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <002201c7e75c$7e8a9f90$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Here in western PA we've learned to steer clear of old codgers who wear hats 
when driving, especially if his wife is wearing a babushka.

Lance (codger emeritus)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills


> Well, good to see Tonya has you figured out, old man... Interesting
> topic. If you are talking about driving skills for street application,
> the unfortunate part here is that the other 99% of us really don't know
> how to drive well. So learning how to dodge them would be good but they
> are the ones that will get you killed. If you are talking about
> motorsports driving skills well, yeah. But not many of us will ever
> venture onto a road course and I bet no diving school around can tell
> you about salt, lol... I woul dbe interested in hearing what you come up
> with in the nature of driving schools for codgers like us.
>
> mayf

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 25 15:29:52 2007
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:29:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <002201c7e75c$7e8a9f90$2101a8c0@WinXP>
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46D093A7.7020008@mayfco.com> <002201c7e75c$7e8a9f90$2101a8c0@WinXP>
Message-ID: <45ac72e90708251429j786679f5i5673e35f44691c83@mail.gmail.com>

Driver's School is a blast and if you get Hot Rod Magazine to pay for
it, it's even better. David can assign someone to write an article.

Bob Denton
running the race of my life; lung cancer. But I'm winning, so far.

On 8/25/07, joseph lance <jolylance at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Here in western PA we've learned to steer clear of old codgers who wear hats
> when driving, especially if his wife is wearing a babushka.
>
> Lance (codger emeritus)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
> Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 4:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills
>
>
> > Well, good to see Tonya has you figured out, old man... Interesting
> > topic. If you are talking about driving skills for street application,
> > the unfortunate part here is that the other 99% of us really don't know
> > how to drive well. So learning how to dodge them would be good but they
> > are the ones that will get you killed. If you are talking about
> > motorsports driving skills well, yeah. But not many of us will ever
> > venture onto a road course and I bet no diving school around can tell
> > you about salt, lol... I woul dbe interested in hearing what you come up
> > with in the nature of driving schools for codgers like us.
> >
> > mayf

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sat Aug 25 15:59:12 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:59:12 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bail out
Message-ID: <D7ABC44AFAAE408DB3D10792AFF6CE06@LMS>

Dan,
    I for one would like to a section in the Saftey rules about a fire at
Speed:


When building cars; builders and drivers should be mindful of placement of
seats, controls, and releases to facilitate exit in case of fire. For saftey
reasons all drivers must be capable of performing "A Bailout"

Driver is expected to be simulate in full drivers suit at any meet at the
request of the Chief inspector. Failure to be peformed in satisfactory manner
in less that 30 seconds in 2 of 3 attemps results in suspension of right to
drive that car untill procedure can be done at a future meet.

Fire declared by a Clap of hands:
1. Stop car--Chute deployment & hard breaking simulation
2. Stop Fire--simulate deploying the apporiate fire suppresion system or
systems
3. Bailout to ground.




      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Sat Aug 25 16:02:56 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:02:56 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Car Exiting Problems
Message-ID: <000901c7e763$b14fe410$563c2544@john>

This Speedweek as a lakester or streamliner (I've forgotten which) came to 
the line and there was several minutes of discussion between the driver and 
the starter and they pushing back to the pits . As I got it , the starter 
thought the large driver couldn't have passed the bail-out test . Does 
anybody know more on this ? 

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Sat Aug 25 16:16:03 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:16:03 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <006901c7e765$87898bc0$6401a8c0@Rick>

nononono Turk
She signed YOU up.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:46 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills


> Well I've pondered this question quite a bit and wanted to bring it up 
> simply
> as a topic of discussion.
>
> We all assume we are gods at driving race cars... simply cause we're guys 
> (
> for the most part )   My question is how good are we really?  Most of us 
> are
> semi older ( not all of us want to admit that-Tonya signed us up for AARP 
> this
> morning)... our reflexes are what they are... and our experience is truly
> limited to the occasional opportunities that we have each year...
>
> David's recommended a couple of different driving schools to increase our
> skills and Both Tonya and I are interested in doing that...  mostly 
> because we
> think it would be a blast and increase our knowledge base...
>
> One of the things that I can say for both of us is that we don't drive 
> over
> our skill level...  we have a tendency if anything to be a bit 
> conservative...
> but even with that said... what is our skill level and how can we increase 
> it
> with so few opportunities....
>
> Any thoughts on the whole subject?  or anything specific?
>
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> rickbyrnes at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sat Aug 25 16:22:28 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 15:22:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Car Exiting Problems
In-Reply-To: <000901c7e763$b14fe410$563c2544@john>
References: <000901c7e763$b14fe410$563c2544@john>
Message-ID: <4DE8270A97AA49298991407F9576EE85@LMS>

John,  That might have been the American Eagle H/BFL car my friend Kevin 
Draper owns---Kevin is fighting cancer and is on "Chemo"  he had some sever 
issues with bailout as I undestand.

Due to heat exhaustion and possibility other issues Kevin did not make a 
start after waiting most of the day to make the first run.  I was approached 
about driving it---the next afternoon I spent several hours in their pits 
getting familiar with the car, basacially a bike with 4 wheels,  Lord that 
thing is beautiful---next morning Jim Travis checked me out on "Bailing 
Out".  I got the car up to 175-180 for a 145 mile time on the first pass for 
the car.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Car Exiting Problems


> This Speedweek as a lakester or streamliner (I've forgotten which) came to
> the line and there was several minutes of discussion between the driver 
> and
> the starter and they pushing back to the pits . As I got it , the starter
> thought the large driver couldn't have passed the bail-out test . Does
> anybody know more on this ?
> _______________________________________________

From David.Freiburger at primedia.com  Sat Aug 25 16:49:12 2007
From: David.Freiburger at primedia.com (Freiburger, David)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:49:12 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46D093A7.7020008@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <AF861B2175084742B5036EF0A13B88CF03BF5A0D@PDGEVS01.primedia.prm>

I'll disagree with you there. Both the street courses and the road-race
classes can be valuable. I've been to the San Bernadino County Sheriff's
school once, to Fast Time once, to Sprint Car school once, to Skip Barber
once, and to Bondurant three time, plus I've been lucky enough to have
instruction at press events from Rusty Wallace, Mike Skinner, and Andy
Pilgrim. Obviously those are job perks for me, but the reason I list all of
them is to point out that I improved my overall skills every single time and
that each and every time I absolutely proved without a shadow of a doubt that
I had gotten very rusty due to lack of seat time.

Anyone can sign up for Barber or Bondurant street courses and learn tons about
vehicle control. I feel such courses should be required for anyone getting a
driver license (it would be better governmant spending than airbag laws). The
racing classes are even better as they teach throttle control, oversteer,
understeer, shifting technique, and other things that absolutely have
application at the Salt. Vision is chief among them. The ice-driving schools
would also be valuable. Plus any race class gets you used to just physically
being in a race car and the metal preparedness. I bet the tech inspectors at
Bonneville have seen a hundred cases where a guy brings a new car to the Salt
and he has never before worn all his safety gear and been strapped hard into
the car. I bet fewer can touch all the controls in the car with a blindfold on
and with distractions in the background, which IMO should be part of the
licensing process. Few other racing venues require safely stopping a burnng
car from 250-plus mph with no guardrail to slow you down.

Also, to Dan's point, the SCTA is the only sanctioning body I know of that
does not require a physical exam. NHRA requires it for a 9-second license
(130ish mph) and SCCA demands it for anything other than playing around at
open-track days. Getting a physical is a PITA. I bet if SCTA required it, then
the problem of long lines would be self-solving.

DF

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+david.freiburger=primedia.com at autox.team.net on
behalf of drmayf
Sent: Sat 8/25/2007 3:40 PM
To: Keith Turk
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills

Well, good to see Tonya has you figured out, old man... Interesting
topic. If you are talking about driving skills for street application,
the unfortunate part here is that the other 99% of us really don't know
how to drive well. So learning how to dodge them would be good but they
are the ones that will get you killed. If you are talking about
motorsports driving skills well, yeah. But not many of us will ever
venture onto a road course and I bet no diving school around can tell
you about salt, lol... I woul dbe interested in hearing what you come up
with in the nature of driving schools for codgers like us.

mayf

From Flowbench at aol.com  Sat Aug 25 17:12:21 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 19:12:21 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
Message-ID: <bbf.14c75c8f.34021155@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/25/2007 3:49:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
David.Freiburger at primedia.com writes:

Also, to  Dan's point, the SCTA is the only sanctioning body I know of that
does not  require a physical exam. NHRA requires it for a 9-second license
(130ish  mph) and SCCA demands it for anything other than playing around  at
open-track days. Getting a physical is a PITA. I bet if SCTA required  it, 
then
the problem of long lines would be  self-solving.



I've thought about Dan's question all day. As David points out above all  
major forms of motorsports require a physical, how bad do you want to race? As a  
300+ lb guy I understand how hard it is to do a bailout as I certainly  was 
not graceful in my exit test but I could get out in less than 20  seconds if I 
had to, but as I was driving the car I wondered... could I do  it if I was 
breathing smoke, and couldn't see not to mention getting  stopped from 275+ mph? 
Land speed racing is supposed to be fun yes but the  safety issues need to be 
considered for the good of the sport. I wouldn't want  anyone to not get the 
chance to enjoy running at the salt but we must protect  the organization.
Lastly I'm sure it would slim down the troops
 
Mike LeFevers
Lucky 2 club member



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http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 25 17:21:29 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:21:29 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Mater Cylinder
References: <657757.97130.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c7e76e$b0839260$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

I use a .750" with rear brakes only. At the time I bought my Wilwood they 
offered .500", .750" and 1.00". For rears only I should have bought the 
.500"...I believe I would have had more control.
In the old days brakes on LSR vehicles are for loading and unloading 
vehicles safely from trailers. Now with winches and enclosed trailers brakes 
are used less. The most important thing is not letting them have any 
drag.....One of the reasons I do not like discs...Good Luck
----- Original Message ----- 
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Mater Cylinder


> I'm looking some Wilwood master cylinders.  I notice that they have a 
> choice between .750 and .850 bore.  I understand hydraulics, but I don't 
> know which master cylinder would be better for my application.  It's a 
> 1977 Firebird with manual brakes for LSR only.   Drums rear and discs 
> front. It appears that the .850 would give me more brake for the amount of 
> foot pressure, but why is the .750 even offered?  Any suggestions?
>
>  DickJ
>  In East Texas

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 25 17:22:41 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:22:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <002101c7e76e$d821efb0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

You can sign up at any age for AARP.



> Well I've pondered this question quite a bit and wanted to bring it up 
> simply
> as a topic of discussion.
>
 ( not all of us want to admit that-Tonya signed us up for AARP this
> morning)... 

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sat Aug 25 18:00:36 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:00:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p><46D093A7.7020008@mayfco.com>
	<dc5d3c40a5ff84f48fd891658bc96ec4@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003201c7e774$24853240$6400a8c0@Dale>

been there done that in pahrump, and my car insurance went down
dale 
back from mt Charleston and the cold


Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills


> My wife tells me the AARP has some driving courses.
> 
> Wes
> 
> On Aug 25, 2007, at 2:40 PM, drmayf wrote:
> 
>> Well, good to see Tonya has you figured out, old man... Interesting
>> topic. If you are talking about driving skills for street application,
>> the unfortunate part here is that the other 99% of us really don't know
>> how to drive well. So learning how to dodge them would be good but they
>> are the ones that will get you killed. If you are talking about
>> motorsports driving skills well, yeah. But not many of us will ever
>> venture onto a road course and I bet no diving school around can tell
>> you about salt, lol... I woul dbe interested in hearing what you come 
>> up
>> with in the nature of driving schools for codgers like us.
>>
>> mayf
>> Keith Turk wrote:

From wmtsmith at cox.net  Sat Aug 25 18:25:58 2007
From: wmtsmith at cox.net (Wm. T. Smith)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:25:58 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <bbf.14c75c8f.34021155@aol.com>
References: <bbf.14c75c8f.34021155@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C4AA38F751CD4ED78C80DED412A4A4C3@LMS>

Mike you are right---I dropped 20+ lbs. in '01 when I was going to drive 
Skips car---just so I could bailout better---I was so concerened I spent 
hours---I was so nervous---once I had done it and got signed off---my car is 
actually harder to get out of than Skips or Kevins---in Kevins car I did not 
pronounce my self ready untill I could do it with my eyes shut..I want to 
drop another 15 lbs so I can get out of mine even better.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message -----  

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sat Aug 25 18:31:04 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 20:31:04 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
Message-ID: <bdf.19a6837d.340223c8@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/25/2007 1:32:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
dwarner230 at yahoo.com writes:

All of  these and more should be addressed by a doctor's release for  drivers 
 over 60 maybe. Other suggestions?




I see it as a common practice by guys on this list to drive hundreds of  
miles just to tech the cars. If someone had to find out they failed tech because  
they could not exit the car in an emergency situation, they didn't put enough  
time into the preparation of their project. We have rulebooks that spell out  
both the safety and tech requirements to race. We have other venues to 
tune-up  for The Salt. I've been practicing for Bonneville for seven years, and find 
it  hard to sympathize with those who don't read the rulebook, to the point 
of  practically memorizing the thing, to know what they need. 99% of my 
concerns are  passing tech, safety first, any other car stuff a distant second. I 
made  a  few trips out there for SW in 05 and 04, and witnessed a  few of these 
tech  nightmares. In some cases the money and time put into the performance of 
the car  as opposed to the safety was just stupid. Dan and the tech crew can 
elaborate on  the best of the worst stories.
If you are over 50, overweight, and out of shape, driving a straight line  
can still be the most physically strenuous task one might encounter, contrary to 
 hopefully wishful thinking.
Bob, will probaly fail tech now ,W






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From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sat Aug 25 18:51:05 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 20:51:05 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
Message-ID: <d03.186454dd.34022879@aol.com>

For those of you NOT subscribed to Hot Rod magazine, ( shame on  you) there 
coincidentally are a slew of articles in the latest issue  on driver safety. 
Also some great "Barn Finds" stories. And an old pic of Dave  with his 
incredibly skinny girly legs. (Probably what qualified him to drive the  Girly HRM car)
Bob, manly leggage, W



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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Aug 25 19:01:57 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:01:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
Message-ID: <46D0D105.9080104@mayfco.com>

I responded earlier to Dan's musing on driver safety. Now having see 
some other messages, I have to ask... who gets to decide when you are 
too old to drive? Or even too young? I saw 60 as a number. But why that 
number? Why not 35? Or 70? Maybe all driver's need to meet fighter pilot 
standards? Who gets to decide who is not capable of driving? That makes 
a very elitist organization. Is it unsafer today that it was in the 50's 
and 60s? No, it probably is far safer. Was there hue and cry about 
drivers then? Why now? This is an amatuer sport. Make the release paper 
very good and let all who can meet a   minimum standard, such as getting 
out fairly easily in some time standard, drive.  I would vote for 
eliminating all drivers over the age of 40. Our reflexes are just not up 
to what they were when we were 30 or so.  Ron Jollife watched me bail 
and he was very cool about it. Wanted to know that I knew where all the 
knobs and doo dads were and how to shut the car down safely. Then he 
said don't get to excited about trying to get out really quickly because 
if the car is on fire, you will get out. I practiced, like everyone else 
to be able to do it in under 20 seconds from about 35 mph or so.  I 
don't like the sounds of the organization making nosies about 
eliminating people by age  for any reason. Capability and competence are 
the only gauges I would suggest.

mayf

From Jimwprice at aol.com  Sat Aug 25 19:02:51 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:02:51 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Brake Master Cylinder
Message-ID: <cd9.1809c53a.34022b3b@aol.com>

Pete Prentice used the brakes on the 500 car at times while at full  throttle 
to get the car to hook up with the track .   I don't know if  he did it at 
the salt or just at Mirage. He still holds the El Mirage  record at 312 so he 
must know something.  
 Brakes on streamliners have historically been plan B when the chutes  failed 
and need to be as good as can be obtained.



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From mcmeekin at columbus.rr.com  Sat Aug 25 20:18:19 2007
From: mcmeekin at columbus.rr.com (Jane McMeekin)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 22:18:19 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <00aa01c7e741$6a40ca70$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
References: <00aa01c7e741$6a40ca70$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <BA38DFFE-2E81-4DD3-ACD7-943488AF1D63@columbus.rr.com>

Dave,
       Your thoughts are on target. Making sure that a driver is  
capable of doing the job regardless of the circumstances, is a no  
brainer. But often the guy driving is actually riding. Can you  
believe some of the stuff drivers are willing to strap on? Who in  
their right mind would get into a 2000 hp, 100" wheelbase, mile high  
street roadster, to take a little 200 mph spin (pun intended) on wet  
salt? And we thought those AA fuel altered fellows had a screw loose.  
They were driving on asphalt! Well since we can't expect the boys to  
put up their hands and put down their guns it does make sense to  
focus on the driver/rider.
           Don
On Aug 25, 2007, at 1:57 PM, ddahlgren at snet.net wrote:

> I have a couple of rather specific thoughts..
> First the guy with the O2 bottle is a no go sorry.. Think fire..  
> Look at
> the rules for nitrous bottle containment and go from there. This is  
> not
> a jet fighter LOL.
>
> Second motor racing in general is not an equal opportunity thing  
> for the
> disabled. I am truly sorry for life's misfortunes but some things are
> just more than realistic if you can not meet the basic equipment  
> list of
> capability and getting out during a mishap top of the list. Start with
> what can go wrong and work your way to what might go right enjoyment
> wise..
>
> Third the driver owner rider crew can sign anything and guess what  
> Aunt
> Minnie did not and is now psychologically traumatized from the loss of
> her nephew.. Don't laugh it is real.
>
> Fourth never be your own judge of capability no matter what get a
> realistic check ride from a disinterested person. This is not to say I
> don't think Keith or Tonya are not only that it is a very dangerous
> attitude to take. I have in years gone by driven a variety of race  
> cars
> even had a bike that I gave away as I knew it would kill me very  
> easily.
> I decided a long while ago though I love racing I will never drive  
> to my
> aspirations. If I had 2 fantasies in my life it would be to turn just
> one lap at the Daytona road course in a GTP car in the 1:40 range  
> but it
> won't happen right up with never riding a pro stock bike at over 200..
> Or for that matter riding the last mile with Don Vesco or Tom Burkland
> it must be a real hoot at 450 + out the back door.. Maybe I am too  
> tough
> on myself maybe not never crashed a race car that I drove though the
> bike another story I am not a happy camper when it rains sigh  
> everything
> hurts..
>
> Sorry I sniped out the original post between Dan and Keith but this
> looks too long with it to pass the size filter..sigh..
> Dave
>
>
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date:
> 8/17/2007 5:43 PM
> _______________________________________________
> mcmeekin at columbus.rr.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From ecpurinton at wildblue.net  Sat Aug 25 20:48:16 2007
From: ecpurinton at wildblue.net (Ed Purinton)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 22:48:16 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Land-speed driving skills
Message-ID: <46D0E9F0.50103@wildblue.net>

     I second drmayf's statement as to capability and competence being 
the only gauges.  Cars are all different and drivers are all 
individuals, it's if/how the combination works thats important.

     Dan has some very valid thoughts on the physical idea but with all 
due respect I  think it might be difficult to carry out fairly and 
effectively.  I seem to recall that in the early '70's some very 
prominent AMA riders on the National Trail had a gynocologist's 
signature on their required physical papers.............no girls riding 
at that level then............

     Anybody show with an o2 bottle, politely remind them of the Herda 
liner incident as you say no.......... 

     I really like Sparky's ideas of practicing the bailout with eyes 
closed and the three slightly different drill bit at tech, maybe even 
doing 4 in random order [1 twice] so the driver really has to react 
properly and not be able to guess.

     From someone who is on the North side of the halfway mark just hope 
I can recognize my own limits when the time comes without putting a tech 
inspector on the spot.

                                  Ed Purinton

From lsr1301 at dahmurf.com  Sat Aug 25 12:05:43 2007
From: lsr1301 at dahmurf.com (DahMurf)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:05:43 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <PKEAJDAKJMECPJDGNLFLMEIGDIAA.lsr1301@dahmurf.com>

I spend a lot of time working on this stuff with the bike. Some may apply to
cars, some may not. Some might help the bike folk so here goes.

I practice my tuck on the highway so it's comfortable & second nature.
That's one thing that can be legally done on the highway!
I've taken a drag racing class twice this year. A lot of the setup and
pre-run thought are directly applicable to LSR and have & will help me.
Handling the bike on launch, on the top end & on shut down at the drag strip
helps me better my skills for handling the bike. Things like handling
wheelies, loose rear, tire spin... all applicable to LSR. Shifting at the
right rpm and shifting efficiently. I don't get through all the gears but
what works in the first 3 or 4 pretty much works in them all. If you hit a
test & tune day you can run all day on the 1/4 mile strip. Great practice.
Road race. I want to take a road race course to better my cornering skills.
I won't be able to swing that one this year but I am going out riding with a
friend that's skilled, knowledgeable and experienced in this form of racing
that's willing to help teach me. That will help me better handle the shut
down turn at higher speeds.
I watch bike road racing & drag racing on TV to get a better understanding &
more comfortable with what can be done. I pretty much pay attention to
anyone going faster then me on a bike in any type of riding/racing
(including stunt riders) and think about how I can apply it to my riding.
Then I go out on the street & practice what I can. The rest I do at the drag
strip.
I've talked to a lot of skilled motorcycle riders to get advice & tips on
all aspects of riding. Just about everything I've heard is useful to me in
one way or another.

The only thing I haven't done is practice for the lack of traction at
Bonneville. I'm not ready to run there yet but once I am you can bet I'm
going to find a place to ride that will be comparable to the lack of
traction so I can practice.

Basically I identify my weakest link and work on it until I better it as a
skill, then I find the next weakest link and work on it. Right now I have a
list of 3 to get through. When I'm done with that I'll figure out the next
ones. Unless of course something else becomes blatantly apparent as a
weakness and gets moved up in the list!

practice, practice, practice, seat time, seat time, seat time.

I don't know about the riding over my skill level thing. I'm not sure where
the top of my skill level is and I'll never progress if I don't push the
limits. I know I won't ride "well" beyond my skill level but a little bit,
sure, it's the best way to gain experience!

Debbie #1302
Twin Jugs Racing

-------------------------------------<snipped
apart>-------------------------------------
Well I've pondered this question quite a bit and wanted to bring it up
simply
as a topic of discussion.

We all assume we are gods at driving race cars... simply cause we're guys (
for the most part )   My question is how good are we really?

David's recommended a couple of different driving schools to increase our
skills and Both Tonya and I are interested in doing that...  mostly because
we
think it would be a blast and increase our knowledge base...

what is our skill level and how can we increase it
with so few opportunities....

Any thoughts on the whole subject?  or anything specific?

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Aug 25 22:56:33 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:56:33 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <00aa01c7e741$6a40ca70$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
	<BA38DFFE-2E81-4DD3-ACD7-943488AF1D63@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <01a401c7e79d$7a351790$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Hey guys..  I really didn't bring this topic up as an "age" issue... but as 
a skill question.

Don Biglow was driving a Lakester out there this year and he's over 70... 
I'd put his physical condition down as better then most of us in our 40's... 
( he runs Marathons )  He also has tons of experience driving sprint cars 
and has been doing the LSR gig quite a while....  So he'd be a classic case 
of a guy who is not only physically capable but mentally skilled in the art 
of driving race cars.  His age has little bearing on his skill set.

My concept here was to bring up the subject of driving skill and to discuss 
how each of us could better our own efforts...  I think I'm going to write 
and e-mail to you guys about learning and the laws of learning... it might 
have some value at this point...  it will take some time... ( mostly just to 
remember this crap )...

K 

From kturk at ala.net  Sat Aug 25 23:35:17 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:35:17 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Learning to drive a race car? or learning in general.
Message-ID: <01b101c7e7a2$e3a5a370$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

This is junk I taught folks that were learning to teach people to fly...

The definition of learning is " A change in behavior as a result of experience
"  My contention is that the term "experience" can be a mental or physical
exercise... in other words we don't have to stick our hands on the stove to
learn that it's Hot.

There are 6 laws of learning...

Readiness, Exercise, Effect, Primacy, Intensity and Recency

Readiness... is nothing more then a willingness or desire to learn... being in
the right mindset...  If your already a driving god... and your ego comes
first...then you don't need any of this... but if your willing to admit that
you could improve then you would be ready to learn.

Exercise...  This is the practice of driving a race car on a regular basis...
I'm not sure this can't be done anywhere any time... simply totally
concentrating on driving from stop light to stop light might constitute
exercise if you take it seriously.  ( maybe on this one... but the concept
might have value )  I know that my skill level is fairly low on the
motorcycles so I take riding them Very seriously... while doing this I
maintain a certain level of concentration that could be considered exercising
my skill set.

Effect... goes back to one of Dahlgrens favorite concepts... which is if you
do the same thing year after year poorly... how many years of experience do
you really have... 10 or the same one year 10 times?  In other words... Effect
is learning a skill correctly and insuring that each time you practice that
skill you maintain a certain level of correctness in the event.  its then
effective.

Primacy...  if you learn something correctly the first time it's many times
more likely to stick... This is one of the most important laws of learning, in
that we often simply assume we know stuff rather then teaching it to ourselves
correctly the first time.

Intensity... is fun... the more vivid an experience the better we learn it...
so adding emotion to the egress procedure can in fact make the learning
experience better... or since your mom told you the stove was hot... you stuck
your finger on that burner and had a wickedly intense learning experience.

Recency...  This means that just because you did the Egress stuff when you
built the car... you still need to go thru it frequently to maintain some
degree of learning...  One of the ways I do this for myself is to bail out of
the car every time I bring it to a stop... I always have to wave a hello to
course workers to let them know everything is okay and that I'm only
practicing my bail out... but I do it every time.

Keith ( there are a couple of spelling errors in there that the spell checker
won't fix.. and I'm over it ...)

From kturk at ala.net  Sun Aug 26 00:02:28 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:02:28 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] learning part 2
Message-ID: <01ba01c7e7a6$af7646a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

The other thing I wanted to bring up here with this learning junk... is the 4
levels of learning.  Often we'll stop learning because we think we "have it"
and don't need to reinforce the change in behavior past the level we're at...
so here are the 4 levels of learning.

Rote, Understanding, Application and Correlation

Rote.... is the simple memorization of a skill and the ability to repeat it
back after you've learned it.  This is the very basis of learning a skill....
think of the shut down procedures your going to use...  Parachute, ease off
the throttle, put the car in Neutral, check temp's.  The ability to repeat
that back is Rote learning.

Understanding... is knowing why you do each of those things... I drive into
the chute underpower, then back off the throttle, slip the car into neutral
and then take a peak at how bad I hurt it.

Application... is the physical use of the steps... what you really do
mechanically in the car... touching each of the handles and making sure you
get it all in the proper sequence.

Correlation ... is putting the shut down procedures with all of the rest of it
to actually make a pass.... there's start procedures, launch procedures, run
stuff and ultimately what you do in shut down... so basically Correlation is
putting together a complete series of the independent events to compete a
single run...

Keith ( okay I'll try and put all of this together for you in the last one of
these )

From kturk at ala.net  Sun Aug 26 00:17:22 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:17:22 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] learning part 3
Message-ID: <01c301c7e7a8$c49f88a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

The point of this whole exercise was to talk about how we go about learning to
race a car correctly...   Tonya and I have had a great time doing all of this
and teaching her to drive a race car has been one of the true joys of my
life...  Maybe I think to much about this junk... but after each event we go
thru a process of evaluating performance and critiquing it to the inth
degree...  reinforcing the positives and evaluating changes necessary for the
negatives...

One of the things we've come up with is the deal with recency and real skill
sets... the discussion about driving schools was specifically associated with
increasing our skill set.

Another great part of my life is doing Tech for the Hot Rod magazine events
and it cracks me up every time... because these yahoo's are exactly like
Bonneville racers... they will work on a motor until is sings to the last
single Hp available... but do they check that the horn works or that the
blinkers Blink?  oh hell no.... that's simply not part of the skill set...
I'm bringing all this driving and learning stuff up.... because after you've
squeezed that last full hp out of it... someone still has to competently get
it down the course...  Somewhere in there is a driver... and that driver has
to learn to do this ....

Keith ( damn I love waking up in the middle of the night with a thought and
not being able to get it outta my head...  hopefully I won't wake up in the
morning and regret I did this )

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sun Aug 26 03:23:59 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:23:59 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <46D0D105.9080104@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <00d501c7e7c2$d6ba8c50$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

The  problem is this, it is our society or lack there of. In the 50's if
someone did something silly well at least in the observers eyes they
just said that was a shame to die doing that.. Now we have to find the
guilty party as there is always someone to blame for every thing.
Litigation is the king now you can not come up with a disclaimer that
covers everyone and everything F Lee Baily can not neither can L Patrick
Grey.. So don't think you can or your local attorney can there is always
a way to sue. Why do you think tires are so  problematic. It is not that
they can not be made or can not be profitable. They don't want to sell
1000 tires for 500 bucks each and have to buy them back at 20 million
each. Selling those tires has to be right up there with being the
official rope provider for climbing Mt. Everest..

Age has nothing to do with capability in general but is a factor to be
considered. Lets not forget for one moment that the majority of those
involved with this sport are reliving a youth missed but now we can do
it as we can afford to be young in actions and deeds at least but the
physical part left a long while ago. I have always wanted to fly a jet
fighter though growing up and being the right age to take that up during
the Vietnam war was a bad plan. The spookiest thing I ever saw was in
the back lot of the local air museum, an F4 with Lt. Dahlgren under the
canopy that was riddled with bullet holes.. What I am getting at is life
is not always fair and you can't always do what you want but each has to
be judged on an individual basis and if you don't meet the standards you
dont know moving them to accommodate someone because everyone gets to
play.. This is not T-ball sorry..

FWIW there are only 3 sports mountain climbing bull fighting and motor
racing the rest are 'games'  and pro or amateur the rewards and
sacrifices are identical.
Dave
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills


I responded earlier to Dan's musing on driver safety. Now having see
some other messages, I have to ask... who gets to decide when you are
too old to drive? Or even too young? I saw 60 as a number. But why that
number? Why not 35? Or 70? Maybe all driver's need to meet fighter pilot

standards? Who gets to decide who is not capable of driving? That makes
a very elitist organization. Is it unsafer today that it was in the 50's

and 60s? No, it probably is far safer. Was there hue and cry about
drivers then? Why now?
mayf

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date:
8/17/2007 5:43 PM

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Aug 26 04:43:04 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:43:04 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Learning
Message-ID: <E252B2A67B12443492FF5955A1AEBB78@LMS>

KT & Dave----lets just don't start an insomniacs club OK!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Sun Aug 26 04:49:14 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 06:49:14 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Learning
In-Reply-To: <E252B2A67B12443492FF5955A1AEBB78@LMS>
Message-ID: <00dc01c7e7ce$befd77b0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

I could be the president of that..LOL
dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Sparky
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:43 AM
To: AA List
Subject: [Land-speed] Learning


KT & Dave----lets just don't start an insomniacs club OK!
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date:
8/17/2007 5:43 PM

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Aug 26 07:06:22 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 06:06:22 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Puerto Rico George: Faster Than a Speeding Bullet:
 Glenn H. Curtiss
Message-ID: <000501c7e7e1$e698cd20$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://blogging-bob93007.blogspot.com:80/2007/08/faster-than-speeding-bullet-
glenn-h.html

I have been to the museum 2 times and want to go back. What a great man.
dale
dark in pahrump, taking the dog outside and watching f-1 on TV

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Sun Aug 26 07:10:17 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 06:10:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] non lsr html
Message-ID: <005c01c7e7e2$72eb5900$6400a8c0@Dale>

if you have a problem loading the story about glenn curtus type in the whole
address.

dale
watching f-1

From v4gr at rcn.com  Sun Aug 26 08:31:52 2007
From: v4gr at rcn.com (Rich Fox)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:31:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] KT and TV
Message-ID: <001201c7e7ed$d889e690$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>

I have noticed lately that every time I turn on the Speed Channel I see a spot
for a Record Setting show and part of that is our friend Keith. It's like
every day, some times twice a day there is KT right in my living room. They
could have used Tonya, but no. This morning I was waiting for my breakfast and
the paper hadn't come yet so I turned on Speed and there was Keith. Before
breakfast. I bring this to your attention as a warning of what can happen. On
the plus side I have not seen Paris Hilton on TV since Keith started showing
up.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Aug 26 08:55:23 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:55:23 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] KT and TV
In-Reply-To: <001201c7e7ed$d889e690$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
References: <001201c7e7ed$d889e690$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
Message-ID: <46D1945B.6010505@mayfco.com>

If seeing Keith on TV is key to keeping PAris off, then I will become a 
TV sponsor, lol... Yo should live here in Vegas...

mayf
Rich Fox wrote:

>I have noticed lately that every time I turn on the Speed Channel I see a spot
>for a Record Setting show and part of that is our friend Keith. It's like
>every day, some times twice a day there is KT right in my living room. They
>could have used Tonya, but no. This morning I was waiting for my breakfast and
>the paper hadn't come yet so I turned on Speed and there was Keith. Before
>breakfast. I bring this to your attention as a warning of what can happen. On
>the plus side I have not seen Paris Hilton on TV since Keith started showing
>up.
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at ala.net  Sun Aug 26 09:13:15 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 10:13:15 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] KT and TV
References: <001201c7e7ed$d889e690$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
	<46D1945B.6010505@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <023b01c7e7f3$a15dd9a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Ahhh the real beauty of it is that Little bit in the preview is ALL you get 
of me in the show ... so the show itself actually has some minor value.

K 

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 26 09:16:13 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:16:13 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] KT and TV
In-Reply-To: <023b01c7e7f3$a15dd9a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <001201c7e7ed$d889e690$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
	<46D1945B.6010505@mayfco.com>
	<023b01c7e7f3$a15dd9a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <939b6db8e5f518aaf21067f32f919a1e@comcast.net>

If one of the talks in church today is about being grateful for small 
favors ...

Wes

On Aug 26, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Keith Turk wrote:

> Ahhh the real beauty of it is that Little bit in the preview is ALL 
> you get
> of me in the show ... so the show itself actually has some minor value.
>
> K
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 26 09:49:37 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 08:49:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Bail out
In-Reply-To: <D7ABC44AFAAE408DB3D10792AFF6CE06@LMS>
Message-ID: <628706.42738.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I thought this was already done except for the time limit. Page 28, section 3.E.
   
  DW

Sparky <sparky.2211 at cox.net> wrote:
  Dan,
I for one would like to a section in the Saftey rules about a fire at
Speed:


When building cars; builders and drivers should be mindful of placement of
seats, controls, and releases to facilitate exit in case of fire. For saftey
reasons all drivers must be capable of performing "A Bailout"

Driver is expected to be simulate in full drivers suit at any meet at the
request of the Chief inspector. Failure to be peformed in satisfactory manner
in less that 30 seconds in 2 of 3 attemps results in suspension of right to
drive that car untill procedure can be done at a future meet.

Fire declared by a Clap of hands:
1. Stop car--Chute deployment & hard breaking simulation
2. Stop Fire--simulate deploying the apporiate fire suppresion system or
systems
3. Bailout to ground.




Sparky
AA/_ L 2211
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! 
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 26 09:50:36 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 08:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Car Exiting Problems
In-Reply-To: <000901c7e763$b14fe410$563c2544@john>
Message-ID: <348495.24888.qm@web52505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Yep, see my original post.
   
  DW

John Burk <joyseydevil at comcast.net> wrote:
  This Speedweek as a lakester or streamliner (I've forgotten which) came to 
the line and there was several minutes of discussion between the driver and 
the starter and they pushing back to the pits . As I got it , the starter 
thought the large driver couldn't have passed the bail-out test . Does 
anybody know more on this ? 
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 26 10:06:22 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:06:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <46D0D105.9080104@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <46206.19625.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

If you reread my original post I put a question mark by 60.
   
  I totally agree that age not be the limiting factor. If you can do the bail out within a reasonable time frame unassisted and are not obviously physically challenged you are good to go in my book.
   
  Trying to get out of a car for several minutes, getting overheated and confused as to what you are doing. Panic when you realize that what you thought was an easy process is what concerns me.
   
  DW

drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
  I responded earlier to Dan's musing on driver safety. Now having see 
some other messages, I have to ask... who gets to decide when you are 
too old to drive? Or even too young? I saw 60 as a number. But why that 
number? Why not 35? Or 70? Maybe all driver's need to meet fighter pilot 
standards? Who gets to decide who is not capable of driving? That makes 
a very elitist organization. Is it unsafer today that it was in the 50's 
and 60s? No, it probably is far safer. Was there hue and cry about 
drivers then? Why now? This is an amatuer sport. Make the release paper 
very good and let all who can meet a minimum standard, such as getting 
out fairly easily in some time standard, drive. I would vote for 
eliminating all drivers over the age of 40. Our reflexes are just not up 
to what they were when we were 30 or so. Ron Jollife watched me bail 
and he was very cool about it. Wanted to know that I knew where all the 
knobs and doo dads were and how to shut the car down safely. Then he 
said don't get to excited about trying to get out really quickly because 
if the car is on fire, you will get out. I practiced, like everyone else 
to be able to do it in under 20 seconds from about 35 mph or so. I 
don't like the sounds of the organization making nosies about 
eliminating people by age for any reason. Capability and competence are 
the only gauges I would suggest.

mayf
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
Check out fitting  gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

From jon at infodestruction.com  Sun Aug 26 10:38:44 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:38:44 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <006901c7e765$87898bc0$6401a8c0@Rick>
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<006901c7e765$87898bc0$6401a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <CBCA2B20-957C-4E27-B918-23F52D42ED13@infodestruction.com>

On Aug 25, 2007, at 6:16 PM, Rick Byrnes wrote:

nononono Turk
She signed YOU up.



Rick, when "I" signed up for AARP (8 1/2 years ago) -- Nancy got  
included in the deal, got the membership card in her name, gets the  
"benefits" -- even though she still isn't 50 (turns 48 in a few months).
Ergo, Tonya could have signed up both of them, even if she is stuck  
at age 39.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From jon at infodestruction.com  Sun Aug 26 10:46:56 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:46:56 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <AF861B2175084742B5036EF0A13B88CF03BF5A0D@PDGEVS01.primedia.prm>
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46D093A7.7020008@mayfco.com>
	<AF861B2175084742B5036EF0A13B88CF03BF5A0D@PDGEVS01.primedia.prm>
Message-ID: <83D5B221-03F3-4284-9FAB-26A7AD19996B@infodestruction.com>

On Aug 25, 2007, at 6:49 PM, Freiburger, David wrote:

I'll disagree with you there. Both the street courses and the road-race
classes can be valuable. I've been to the San Bernadino County Sheriff's
school once, to Fast Time once, to Sprint Car school once, to Skip  
Barber
once, and to Bondurant three time, plus I've been lucky enough to have
instruction at press events from Rusty Wallace, Mike Skinner, and Andy
Pilgrim. Obviously those are job perks for me, but the reason I list  
all of
them is to point out that I improved my overall skills every single  
time and
that each and every time I absolutely proved without a shadow of a  
doubt that
I had gotten very rusty due to lack of seat time.
  DF



Okay, I'll chip in now, before reading all of the "driver skills"  
responses.

I've attended five motorcycle high-performance driving schools (one  
Reg Pridmore and four Keith Code) over the past ten years.  What  
David says is correct -- I've improved my ability to ride each and  
every time.  I've often told the story about when I encountered a  
deer about to run in front of me as I rode the Gold Wing.  I reacted  
with maneuvers that I had learned in the schools, missing the deer  
and not crashing the bike.  When I stopped a few hundred yards down  
the road (to change underpants, that's how close it had seemed), I  
thought through the incident -- and in my thoughts I DID IT WRONG!   
The school had given me the skills to do it right without having to  
think.

It's not infrequent that someone -- often a young buck that's just  
bought himself a faster-than-the-dickens motorcycle -- asks me to  
suggest what he should spend his monry on first so his bike will be  
faster.  I ALWAYS suggest a high-performance driving school.  The  
kid'll complain that it sounds dull -- why not a fancy new exhaust  
pipe, or slick tires, or this or that?  I explain that with what he'd  
learn in the school he'd be able to ride circles around the others in  
his group, tell him the above deer story -- and wonder if he'll take  
my advice.

Plus -- an on-track driving school is a great way to get your ya-yahs  
in a safe environment.  Hey -- a day spent riding around the Road  
America course is a day that most folks will never experience.  It's  
worth the bucks -- and will darn near certainly make you a better  
rider/driver.

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 26 11:17:50 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:17:50 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] KT and TV
Message-ID: <BAY135-W428D422EA979D6C8EAB20DD9D10@phx.gbl>

Geese Rich       warn us,   - willya ???   I dam near lost all my breakfast
cheerios thru my nose!

  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,


     ------------------------------------- oooo
--------------------------------------

> From: v4gr at rcn.com> To: land-speed at autox.team.net> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007
07:31:52 -0700> Subject: [Land-speed] KT and TVI have noticed lately that
every time I turn on the Speed Channel I see a spot for a Record Setting show
and part of that is our friend Keith. It's like every day, some times twice a
day there is KT right in my living room. They could have used Tonya, but no.
This morning I was waiting for my breakfast and the paper hadn't come yet so I
turned on Speed and there was Keith.   Before  breakfast. I bring this to your
attention as a warning of what can happen. On the plus side I have not seen
Paris Hilton on TV since Keith started showing up.
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&
cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&
encType=1&FORM=MGAC01

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 26 12:30:29 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:30:29 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Convenient driver's school
Message-ID: <eedca15f8d0391b0c98b57d4e6209e3f@comcast.net>

The Miller Mostorsport's Park has schools for bikes, cars and karts
and it's less than a hundred miles from the salt.  Show up a couple
of days early and take a refresher course even if you have already
prepared yourself for an event.

See http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/ for details.  Seven
miles or so from I-80 Exit 99.

Wes

Jon said:

Plus -- an on-track driving school is a great way to get your ya-yahs
in a safe environment.  Hey -- a day spent riding around the Road
America course is a day that most folks will never experience.  It's
worth the bucks -- and will darn near certainly make you a better
rider/driver.

                  Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
               Marquette, Michigan
               (that's 'way up north)

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 26 12:32:41 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:32:41 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Learning
In-Reply-To: <00dc01c7e7ce$befd77b0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
References: <00dc01c7e7ce$befd77b0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <afb56c3eaea22aaca0101c4d709f88d7@comcast.net>

What better way to use that time?

Wes

On Aug 26, 2007, at 4:49 AM, <ddahlgren at snet.net> wrote:

> I could be the president of that..LOL
> dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
> Of Sparky
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:43 AM
> To: AA List
> Subject: [Land-speed] Learning
>
>
> KT & Dave----lets just don't start an insomniacs club OK!
>       Sparky
> AA/_ L  2211
>
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date:
> 8/17/2007 5:43 PM
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 26 12:37:19 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:37:19 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
Message-ID: <25811888.1188153440121.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I think it's great that you all want to pick a number or pass a physical test or whatever. I will make the recommdation the all workers must also meet these requirements. At 60 Dan, I, Carlson, Waters, Creel, Barrett, Bullis, etc would all no longer be required to drill holes, put out cones, inspect cars, run impounds, time vehicles, work registration etc...... Sounds good to me 

>
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills
>
>If you reread my original post I put a question mark by 60.
>   
>  DW
>
>drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
 Maybe all driver's need to meet fighter pilot 
>standards? 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Aug 26 12:44:44 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:44:44 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <25811888.1188153440121.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <01f801c7e811$2bdb9f50$6401a8c0@Glens>

Does that mean we can just go have fun, I love it.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills


>I think it's great that you all want to pick a number or pass a physical 
>test or whatever. I will make the recommdation the all workers must also 
>meet these requirements. At 60 Dan, I, Carlson, Waters, Creel, Barrett, 
>Bullis, etc would all no longer be required to drill holes, put out cones, 
>inspect cars, run impounds, time vehicles, work registration etc...... 
>Sounds good to me
>
>>
>>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills
>>
>>If you reread my original post I put a question mark by 60.
>>
>>  DW
>>
>>drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
> Maybe all driver's need to meet fighter pilot
>>standards?
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Aug 26 12:48:33 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:48:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] KT and TV
In-Reply-To: <023b01c7e7f3$a15dd9a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <001201c7e7ed$d889e690$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
	<46D1945B.6010505@mayfco.com>
	<023b01c7e7f3$a15dd9a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <46D1CB01.5070608@mayfco.com>

Keith Turk wrote:

> Ahhh the real beauty of it is that Little bit in the preview is ALL 
> you get of me in the show ... so the show itself actually has some 
> minor value.
>
> K
>
>
>
Actually , Keith, you have a good "presence" on camera. You are never at 
a loss for words and they are straight to the point without being 
overbearing. You come across good. I wouldn't mine more of Keith on TV. 
Maybe you could take over the Hot ROd  tv program, lol...

mayf

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Aug 26 12:54:33 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:54:33 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <01f801c7e811$2bdb9f50$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <25811888.1188153440121.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<01f801c7e811$2bdb9f50$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <46D1CC69.6080102@mayfco.com>

Nope, it would mean that all you can do is wrench and spectate or crew. 

mayf
Glen Barrett wrote:

> Does that mean we can just go have fun, I love it.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
> To: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" 
> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills
>
>
>> I think it's great that you all want to pick a number or pass a 
>> physical test or whatever. I will make the recommdation the all 
>> workers must also meet these requirements. At 60 Dan, I, Carlson, 
>> Waters, Creel, Barrett, Bullis, etc would all no longer be required 
>> to drill holes, put out cones, inspect cars, run impounds, time 
>> vehicles, work registration etc...... Sounds good to me
>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills
>>>
>>> If you reread my original post I put a question mark by 60.
>>>
>>>  DW
>>>
>>> drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe all driver's need to meet fighter pilot
>>
>>> standards?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 26 13:08:45 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:08:45 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Re KT and TV
In-Reply-To: <46D1CB01.5070608@mayfco.com>
References: <001201c7e7ed$d889e690$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2>
	<46D1945B.6010505@mayfco.com>
	<023b01c7e7f3$a15dd9a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46D1CB01.5070608@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <350425a78eb5f451a24183f845f2674a@comcast.net>

Remember TV Tommy Ivo?  We could have TV Turk!  Perhaps even
better we could have TV Tonya and Keith Turk!

Wes

On Aug 26, 2007, at 12:48 PM, drmayf wrote:

> Keith Turk wrote:
>
>> Ahhh the real beauty of it is that Little bit in the preview is ALL
>> you get of me in the show ... so the show itself actually has some
>> minor value.
>>
>> K
>>
>>
>>
> Actually , Keith, you have a good "presence" on camera. You are never 
> at
> a loss for words and they are straight to the point without being
> overbearing. You come across good. I wouldn't mine more of Keith on TV.
> Maybe you could take over the Hot ROd  tv program, lol...
>
> mayf

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Aug 26 13:13:07 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:13:07 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] KT and TV
References: <001201c7e7ed$d889e690$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2><46D1945B.6010505@mayfco.com><023b01c7e7f3$a15dd9a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46D1CB01.5070608@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <021601c7e815$2336a710$6401a8c0@Glens>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] KT and TV


> Keith Turk wrote:
> 
>> Ahhh the real beauty of it is that Little bit in the preview is ALL 
>> you get of me in the show ... so the show itself actually has some 
>> minor value.
>>
>> K
>>
>>
>>
> Actually , Keith, you have a good "presence" on camera. You are never at 
> a loss for words and they are straight to the point without being 
> overbearing. You come across good. I wouldn't mine more of Keith on TV. 
> Maybe you could take over the Hot ROd  tv program, lol...
> 
> mayf
> __
Tanya says he never shuts up. lol
Glen

_____________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Sun Aug 26 13:13:51 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:13:51 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <25811888.1188153440121.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<01f801c7e811$2bdb9f50$6401a8c0@Glens> <46D1CC69.6080102@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <021b01c7e815$3d112700$6401a8c0@Glens>

Hell, that works too.
GB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>; "dan warner" 
<dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills


> Nope, it would mean that all you can do is wrench and spectate or crew.
> mayf
> Glen Barrett wrote:
>
>> Does that mean we can just go have fun, I love it.
>> Glen
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
>> To: "dan warner" <dwarner230 at yahoo.com>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "LSR" 
>> <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills
>>
>>
>>> I think it's great that you all want to pick a number or pass a physical 
>>> test or whatever. I will make the recommdation the all workers must also 
>>> meet these requirements. At 60 Dan, I, Carlson, Waters, Creel, Barrett, 
>>> Bullis, etc would all no longer be required to drill holes, put out 
>>> cones, inspect cars, run impounds, time vehicles, work registration 
>>> etc...... Sounds good to me
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills
>>>>
>>>> If you reread my original post I put a question mark by 60.
>>>>
>>>>  DW
>>>>
>>>> drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe all driver's need to meet fighter pilot
>>>
>>>> standards?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>>>
>>> Land-speed mailing list
>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Aug 26 13:23:09 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:23:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] KT and TV
References: <001201c7e7ed$d889e690$6401a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2><46D1945B.6010505@mayfco.com><023b01c7e7f3$a15dd9a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p><46D1CB01.5070608@mayfco.com>
	<021601c7e815$2336a710$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <002801c7e816$8b92d990$6501a8c0@S>

Keith-- Does this all mean you're going to give up getting haircuts?  Or
maybe go the shaved head look?
Ed
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
> To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
> Cc: "landspeed at autox.team.net" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] KT and TV
> > Keith Turk wrote:
> >> Ahhh the real beauty of it is that Little bit in the preview is ALL
> >> you get of me in the show ... so the show itself actually has some
> >> minor value.
> >> K

From BWANA343 at aol.com  Sun Aug 26 13:31:00 2007
From: BWANA343 at aol.com (BWANA343 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 15:31:00 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
Message-ID: <cb0.19702c8b.34032ef4@aol.com>

Welcome to KTV on Speedvision, sponsored by  Diet Coke, Marlboro, and  who 
ever made that Purple Fire Suit. 
Follow the wild and wacky adventures of Keith, his faithful sidekick  
Tonto,er Tonya, laff a minute Dave Frieburger, Doc Dahlgren, Capt Joe Timney as  they 
cruise America in the Girly CamEro in search of multiple records and the  
Elephants lost graveyard.
If Dancing with the Stars sells,so will this...
Bob, misses Gilligan,W



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Sun Aug 26 13:39:17 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:39:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <25811888.1188153440121.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net><01f801c7e811$2bdb9f50$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<46D1CC69.6080102@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c7e818$ccbd0fb0$6501a8c0@S>

Before this subject deteriorates completely into good natured humor I'd like
to add a couple of thoughts--
-- I don't think we should try to write any elaborate and constricting rule
changes around this issue, especially the process of exiting the race car,
at least at this point.  I'd much rather trust the judgement of the race
officials and the centuries of experience in the LSR, particularly the SCTA,
communities.
--In my on again/off again street roadster project (now "on") I spent a good
part of the year mocking up a succession of roll cage configutations out of
1-3/4" exhaust bends and 1-1/2" EMT before coming up with the right layout
to package the drivers(one 6ft, 170 lb; the other 5'7" 190 lb.) for
entry,belting in, driving and exiting. (a good electric fan helps when
tacking the EMT).  For me, time well spent given the cost of fabricating the
final roll cage.
By the way, Glen, I don't think your friends here are going to let you off
so easily........
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drmayf" <drmayf at mayfco.com>
To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
Cc: "LSR" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills


> Nope, it would mean that all you can do is wrench and spectate or crew.
> mayf
> Glen Barrett wrote:
> > Does that mean we can just go have fun, I love it.
> > Glen

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 26 14:08:16 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:08:16 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Re KT and TV
Message-ID: <BAY135-W287FDE7F4E389A06F82CD1D9D10@phx.gbl>

Wes,   Now THAT's got a great ring to it!


  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
          and never more than a few feet from a cold one

     ------------------------------------- oooo
--------------------------------------


> From: wester6935 at comcast.net> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:08:45 -0600> To:
drmayf at mayfco.com> CC: land-speed at autox.team.net> Subject: [Land-speed] Re KT
and TV> > Remember TV Tommy Ivo?  We could have TV Turk!  Perhaps even> better
we could have TV Tonya and Keith Turk!> > Wes> > On Aug 26, 2007, at 12:48 PM,
drmayf wrote:> > > Keith Turk wrote:> >> >> Ahhh the real beauty of it is that
Little bit in the preview is ALL> >> you get of me in the show ... so the show
itself actually has some> >> minor value.> >>> >> K
_________________________________________________________________
Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too!
http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink

From bennevl at bellsouth.net  Sun Aug 26 16:32:02 2007
From: bennevl at bellsouth.net (Bill Bennett)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:32:02 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Land-speed Digest, Vol 1, Issue 118
References: <mailman.11832.1188109013.12556.land-speed@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <007001c7e830$ed109670$6501a8c0@homedesktop>

I know I don't have a dog in this fight, but thought I would throw my 
pennies worth in . Why not include a blindfold into the bail out procedure? 
Disorientation and familarization of controls are 2 biggies. If this has 
already been mentioned, sorry for the repost, but I have had to go to digest 
form and sometimes miss things. I have been very fortunate here lately. One 
of the guys I work with is an SCCA instructor found out about my TBird and 
has offered for free to coach me on open track days at the local road race 
course here in Camden, SC. And all these drag race guys aroound here are 
dying to get me out to the strip.
Bill

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <land-speed-request at autox.team.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:16 AM
Subject: Land-speed Digest, Vol 1, Issue 118


> Send Land-speed mailing list submissions to
> land-speed at autox.team.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> land-speed-request at autox.team.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> land-speed-owner at autox.team.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Land-speed digest..."
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Driving skills (BWANA343 at aol.com)
>   2. Re: Driving skills (drmayf)
>   3. Re: Brake Master Cylinder (Jimwprice at aol.com)
>   4. Re: Driving skills (Jane McMeekin)
>   5. Re: Land-speed driving skills (Ed Purinton)
>   6. Re: Driving skills (DahMurf)
>   7. Re: Driving skills (Keith Turk)
>   8. Learning to drive a race car? or learning in general. (Keith Turk)
>   9. learning part 2 (Keith Turk)
>  10. learning part 3 (Keith Turk)
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> Land-speed mailing list
> Land-speed at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 26 17:21:27 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:21:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Drag Race Guys
In-Reply-To: <007001c7e830$ed109670$6501a8c0@homedesktop>
Message-ID: <816870.36555.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bill Bennett <bennevl at bellsouth.net> wrote:.. .. ..  all these drag race guys around here are dying to get me out to the strip.
Bill

   
  Yeah, same thing here.  I guess they think they'll show you that their cars are really faster than yours or something.  I keep trying to tell them:  "Life Begins at 1321".
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas

       
---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
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From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 26 19:30:52 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 01:30:52 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Drag Race Guys   and REAL speed
Message-ID: <BAY135-W66912729D8616B4AE9AC2D9D20@phx.gbl>

correction:  the correct retort should be   ""Life Begins at two miles"
LOL     ha  ha   ha  ha  ha   ha  ha  ha  ha  ha  ha    LOL   ha  ha  ha ha
ha  ha

  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -18 miles from Square Deal Raceway,
  -20 miles east of Action Park Speedway,
  -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
  -105 miles south of "the  Syracuse  Mile" ...
  -265 miles north of Williams Grove Speedway
  -2425 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
   and never more than a few feet from a cold one

  Speedway Bikes, Harley D's and Minibikes rode with equal joy,
    Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin repairs,
      Aerial Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint Cars,

        -and "Slide Jobs" appreciated for the FINE ART that they are

     ------------------------------------- oooo
--------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:21:27 -0700> From: lsr_man at yahoo.com> To:
bennevl at bellsouth.net; land-speed at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Land-speed]
Drag Race Guys> > Bill Bennett <bennevl at bellsouth.net> wrote:.. .. ..  all
these drag race guys around here are dying to get me out to the strip. Bill >
Yeah, same thing here.  I guess they think they'll show you that their cars
are really faster than yours or something.  I keep trying to tell them:  "Life
Begins at 1321".>    >   DickJ    In East Texas> >
_________________________________________________________________
Messenger Cafi  open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily.
Visit now.
http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_AugWLtagline

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Sun Aug 26 20:59:10 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:59:10 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <010601c7e737$8f4aa5c0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p><006901c7e765$87898bc0$6401a8c0@Rick>
	<CBCA2B20-957C-4E27-B918-23F52D42ED13@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <00c201c7e856$3edeaa80$6401a8c0@Rick>

I know that Jon, but couldn't resist a chance to jab Keith.

:-d
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Wennerberg" <jon at infodestruction.com>
To: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
Cc: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills


> On Aug 25, 2007, at 6:16 PM, Rick Byrnes wrote:
> 
> nononono Turk
> She signed YOU up.
> 
> 
> 
> Rick, when "I" signed up for AARP (8 1/2 years ago) -- Nancy got  
> included in the deal, got the membership card in her name, gets the  
> "benefits" -- even though she still isn't 50 (turns 48 in a few months).
> Ergo, Tonya could have signed up both of them, even if she is stuck  
> at age 39.
> 
>                 Jon Wennerberg
> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>              Marquette, Michigan
>              (that's 'way up north)
> _______________________________________________
> rick at rbmotorsports.com
> 
> Land-speed mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Sun Aug 26 21:23:06 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:23:06 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bail out
In-Reply-To: <628706.42738.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <628706.42738.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <041A6B1E90714C31949A680980D6CBAB@LMS>

Dan, I would be more specific---outline the procedure the drivers are going to
be evaluated on, time frame expected to be able to perform the requirements
and  that driver is subject to be asked  at any time to perform, and a follow
up opportunity to redeem themselves if they fail---ie: they must NAIL the next
two attemps---also I would consider requiring it for the first meet attended
of the season, and every meet after 70.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: dan warner
  To: Sparky ; AA List
  Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 8:49 AM
  Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bail out


  I thought this was already done except for the time limit. Page 28, section
3.E.

  DW

  Sparky <sparky.2211 at cox.net> wrote:
    Dan,
    I for one would like to a section in the Saftey rules about a fire at
    Speed:


    When building cars; builders and drivers should be mindful of placement
of
    seats, controls, and releases to facilitate exit in case of fire. For
saftey
    reasons all drivers must be capable of performing "A Bailout"

    Driver is expected to be simulate in full drivers suit at any meet at the
    request of the Chief inspector. Failure to be peformed in satisfactory
manner
    in less that 30 seconds in 2 of 3 attemps results in suspension of right
to
    drive that car untill procedure can be done at a future meet.

    Fire declared by a Clap of hands:
    1. Stop car--Chute deployment & hard breaking simulation
    2. Stop Fire--simulate deploying the apporiate fire suppresion system or
    systems
    3. Bailout to ground.




    Sparky
    AA/_ L 2211
    _______________________________________________
    dwarner230 at yahoo.com
    ) at Yahoo! Games.

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 26 21:47:08 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:47:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <25811888.1188153440121.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <924107.25911.qm@web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Make that 60+++++++ JD
   
  DW

James Tone <gmc6power at earthlink.net> wrote:
  I think it's great that you all want to pick a number or pass a physical test or whatever. I will make the recommdation the all workers must also meet these requirements. At 60 Dan, I, Carlson, Waters, Creel, Barrett, Bullis, etc would all no longer be required to drill holes, put out cones, inspect cars, run impounds, time vehicles, work registration etc...... Sounds good to me 

>
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills
>
>If you reread my original post I put a question mark by 60.
> 
> DW
>
>drmayf wrote:
Maybe all driver's need to meet fighter pilot 
>standards? 



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

From joetimney at dol.net  Mon Aug 27 04:52:57 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 05:52:57 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <cb0.19702c8b.34032ef4@aol.com>
References: <cb0.19702c8b.34032ef4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46D2AD09.6040907@dol.net>

I just spit coffee all over the screen!!! Bob, That was good! LOL
joe

BWANA343 at aol.com wrote:
> Welcome to KTV on Speedvision, sponsored by  Diet Coke, Marlboro, and  who 
> ever made that Purple Fire Suit. 
> Follow the wild and wacky adventures of Keith, his faithful sidekick  
> Tonto,er Tonya, laff a minute Dave Frieburger, Doc Dahlgren, Capt Joe Timney as  they 
> cruise America in the Girly CamEro in search of multiple records and the  
> Elephants lost graveyard.
> If Dancing with the Stars sells,so will this...
> Bob, misses Gilligan,W

From john at engr.wisc.edu  Mon Aug 27 06:57:48 2007
From: john at engr.wisc.edu (john robinson)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 07:57:48 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070827072128.024631e0@cae.wisc.edu>

Howdy,
         Speaking from personal experience, riding a motorcycle should be 
easy especially after riding one for 20 years, but try taking an 
experienced rider course for street or one for the race track and find out 
just what you have been doing wrong all those years, and being humbled by 
your lack of skills in the riding portion of the test ..... I agree with 
several of the other people on this list, take as much training as you can 
get for driving a car or a bike.  I've taken the experienced rider course 
for street riding 3 times in the last 5 years,and the track time course 
once down at the Blackhawk race track and each time I've learned something 
new (no, I did not forget and relearn)  and learned not just from the 
training course, but also from the riders who were taking the course having 
a different perspective and experience than the teacher or the course 
material.... everybody gets set in their ways, we all have a route we drive 
daily and repetition causes us to slack off, and most of us have been 
driving for 30+ years... the EAA suggests that a pilot other than the 
builder fly a newly built experimental airplane for the first time, due to 
the amateur builder having not practiced the skills needed to fly an 
airplane during his build time. And the vehicles we drive on the Salt are 
all experimental... and we should be trained in skills that we need for 
driving. (I did not say required, only should) Escaping from a vehicle in 
an allotted time should be on both the builders and drivers mind, and the 
driver should have much needed practice getting out. An example of 
practice, as a skydiver, we try to practice the jump maneuvers three times 
correctly before we make a jump, muscle memory comes into play here, and if 
you do it wrong once and practice correctly only once or even twice before 
the jump, we find you will forget a maneuver, and blow the jump.

           John Robinson, Mechanician
   Mechanical Engineering University of Wisconsin
                 1513 University Ave.
                  Madison, Wi. 53706
                     608-262-3606
            Current World Land Speed Record Holder
                  Bonneville Salt Flats
                      H/GCC 92 cu.in. 1980 Dodge Colt
                  144.396 MPH set 2000
         Antarctic Ice Driller 2002-03
         Greenland Ice Driller 2006 

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 27 07:13:40 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 06:13:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070827072128.024631e0@cae.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <861046.14275.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

" we find you will forget a maneuver, and blow the jump."
   
  That could hurt.
   
  DW
  
john robinson <john at engr.wisc.edu> wrote:
  Howdy,
Speaking from personal experience, riding a motorcycle should be 
easy especially after riding one for 20 years, but try taking an 
experienced rider course for street or one for the race track and find out 
just what you have been doing wrong all those years, and being humbled by 
your lack of skills in the riding portion of the test ..... I agree with 
several of the other people on this list, take as much training as you can 
get for driving a car or a bike. I've taken the experienced rider course 
for street riding 3 times in the last 5 years,and the track time course 
once down at the Blackhawk race track and each time I've learned something 
new (no, I did not forget and relearn) and learned not just from the 
training course, but also from the riders who were taking the course having 
a different perspective and experience than the teacher or the course 
material.... everybody gets set in their ways, we all have a route we drive 
daily and repetition causes us to slack off, and most of us have been 
driving for 30+ years... the EAA suggests that a pilot other than the 
builder fly a newly built experimental airplane for the first time, due to 
the amateur builder having not practiced the skills needed to fly an 
airplane during his build time. And the vehicles we drive on the Salt are 
all experimental... and we should be trained in skills that we need for 
driving. (I did not say required, only should) Escaping from a vehicle in 
an allotted time should be on both the builders and drivers mind, and the 
driver should have much needed practice getting out. An example of 
practice, as a skydiver, we try to practice the jump maneuvers three times 
correctly before we make a jump, muscle memory comes into play here, and if 
you do it wrong once and practice correctly only once or even twice before 
the jump, we find you will forget a maneuver, and blow the jump.

John Robinson, Mechanician
Mechanical Engineering University of Wisconsin
1513 University Ave.
Madison, Wi. 53706
608-262-3606
Current World Land Speed Record Holder
Bonneville Salt Flats
H/GCC 92 cu.in. 1980 Dodge Colt
144.396 MPH set 2000
Antarctic Ice Driller 2002-03
Greenland Ice Driller 2006 
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

From john at engr.wisc.edu  Mon Aug 27 08:01:33 2007
From: john at engr.wisc.edu (john robinson)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:01:33 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <861046.14275.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20070827072128.024631e0@cae.wisc.edu>
	<861046.14275.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070827083957.02476c60@cae.wisc.edu>

nah, not really, we do "relative work" in freefall,  where we maneuver in 
freefall relative to one another , taking various handgrips, legs, hands or 
combination of, to make "points". by "blowing the jump" , I meant that 
somebody forgot the next maneuver and subsequently screwed up the rest of 
the jump by being in the wrong place in the formation, with the wrong 
handhold ... on the big jumps, where 200-300 jumpers are trying for a 
record, everybody has to have the correct handhold, and be in the correct 
slot, and everybody has to hold the dive for 5 seconds, one wrong hold, one 
hand not making contact, and the dive has been blown, and no record... 357 
skydivers in formation is the world record by the way.....and I will never 
have the skill level needed for the big jumps like that...  I started 
jumping way too late in my life for the skills needed..33 years old for my 
first jump..24 years ago..

you wrote:

>" we find you will forget a maneuver, and blow the jump."
>
>That could hurt.
>
>DW

           John Robinson, Mechanician
   Mechanical Engineering University of Wisconsin
                 1513 University Ave.
                  Madison, Wi. 53706
                     608-262-3606
            Current World Land Speed Record Holder
                  Bonneville Salt Flats
                      H/GCC 92 cu.in. 1980 Dodge Colt
                  144.396 MPH set 2000
         Antarctic Ice Driller 2002-03
         Greenland Ice Driller 2006 

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Aug 27 10:18:35 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:18:35 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Bail out
References: <628706.42738.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<041A6B1E90714C31949A680980D6CBAB@LMS>
Message-ID: <46D2F95B.000004.04032@TOM>

Hello to all,

I am somewhat troubled by this discussion of age being a factor in our
capacities to participate as a driver at Bonneville. I know that that there
are situations that warrant concern, but I don't believe age is the primary
factor.

At 77 years, I am basically blind in one eye (have been all my life) deaf in
one ear and hearing impaired in the other (also a condition that goes back
many years) basically I am in better physical condition than many that I
know in their 50s. I plan to be doing this for another 5-10 years. When I am
no longer physically able to do this safely, then I will hang it up. Just
don't take an arbitrary figure and say this is unsafe for me.

The most at risk are those physically and mentally unprepared. Keeping
active physically and mentally alert, by the exercise of both body and mind,
will serve us well in all areas of life.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Aug 27 10:42:36 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:36 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Bail out/driver ed/ some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <46D2F95B.000004.04032@TOM>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16621@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

My second trip to the salt (running the "130 club") we spent about a 1/2
day in the "tech tent" - fascinating stuff.  Learned  tons (not near
enough) and witnessed the following:
A first- timer going through tech w/ a yet virgin car.  The Driver/owner
was quite prosperous.  (My doc always says I'm getting more and more
prosperous.) The car was a pretty serious A or B roadster (scary to me).

Tech goes along, car is pretty good (those tech guys are thorough -
thank god) then they suggest the driver get suited up/ now the
helmet/now we want to see the belts and all safety gear in place.

Then the "show" started.  To the driver:  OK, you are on fire - GET OUT!
Driver: what do you want me to do first?
Tech: you are on fire, its up to you.

I was surprised the guy didn't code (have a heart attack)  right on the
spot.  He was red, sweaty and panting when he got out.  First thing he
says is:  "Guess I need to practice some . . . "

I learned a good lesson at that fellow's expense.

Blindfold?  By the time I get suited, collared, helmeted, strapped in
and tethered I can't see a damn thing . . .  (but it's a great idea.)

Driver's Ed:  Once can't have too many skills.

And finally:  eligibilty criteria should NOT be based on age.  Ability,
knowledge, conditioning, hardware but not age.

My $.02 . . . .

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Tom Bryant
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:19 AM
To: dan warner; AA List; Sparky
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bail out

Hello to all,

I am somewhat troubled by this discussion of age being a factor in our
capacities to participate as a driver at Bonneville. I know that that
there
are situations that warrant concern, but I don't believe age is the
primary
factor.

At 77 years, I am basically blind in one eye (have been all my life)
deaf in
one ear and hearing impaired in the other (also a condition that goes
back
many years) basically I am in better physical condition than many that I
know in their 50s. I plan to be doing this for another 5-10 years. When
I am
no longer physically able to do this safely, then I will hang it up.
Just
don't take an arbitrary figure and say this is unsafe for me.

The most at risk are those physically and mentally unprepared. Keeping
active physically and mentally alert, by the exercise of both body and
mind,
will serve us well in all areas of life.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name
of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name
of elephant_en.gif]
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 11:11:57 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:11:57 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bail out/driver ed/ some thoughts
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16621@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <003a01c7e8cd$6590da00$6501a8c0@S>

David-- I agree on all points.  I guess Lee Kennedy's crew sees this
repeated every year.
It never ceases to amaze me that someone will spend into the 4 figures for
personal safety gear and never try it on in the car.  It's as if they figure
the driving suit is something you just paint on your bod and then forget.
I propose that every new car/owner combination have a pre-inspection
"bachelor party" for all drivers as a matter of hallowed LSR tradition.  The
"ejection" (I hope I spelled that correctly) ceremony, with stopwatch, has
to be a central feature of that event!!
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
To: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>; "AA List"
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bail out/driver ed/ some thoughts
> A first- timer going through tech w/ a yet virgin car. . .  First thing he
> says is:  "Guess I need to practice some . . . " ...........

> Blindfold?  By the time I get suited, collared, helmeted, strapped in
> and tethered I can't see a damn thing . . .  (but it's a great idea.)
> Driver's Ed:  Once can't have too many skills.
> And finally:  eligibilty criteria should NOT be based on age.  Ability,
> knowledge, conditioning, hardware but not age.
> My $.02 . . . . David in Durango

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 11:45:41 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:45:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Packaging the driver
Message-ID: <004701c7e8d2$1ac39530$6501a8c0@S>

Seems to me a bit strange that in most of our car classes we're dealing with a
body of rule constrained dimensions originally designed to carry 2 (or more)
people yet all to often can't find enough room to safely and efficiently
package just a driver alone.
IMHO the first thing anyone preparing a car for landspeed racing should think
about is the driver.  Safety for and efficient operation of this "central
control system" is #1.  We can learn a lot about this from the people who
design tactical fighter aircraft and, I'm sure, other established and by now
highly professionalized forms of motor racing.  Engines, drive trains,
streamlining, suspension.......all important.  But perfection in all of these
areas is of little use if the "central control system" fails.
Been there, seen that up close.  This year, Monday morning in impound, the
broken rocker arm and lifter, an excellent chance to set a new record lost to
what we strongly think was improper location of the tach and the resultant
accidental overrev.  The link between driver and feedback signal broken, the
system goes into a  much looser secondary mode relying on driver instinct and
audible feedbacks.  Sure the engine was on the ragged edge.  Its a rare
situation when you don't push the hardware to the limits when the record is on
the hard side.
Time to think through the check list for the next bachelor party.
Ed Weldon

From JON at infodestruction.com  Mon Aug 27 12:17:50 2007
From: JON at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:17:50 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] "Flat Out"
Message-ID: <E632143A-3388-4A3C-8F34-3C6273348F05@infodestruction.com>

At SpeedWeek we got a copy of Rocky Robinson's book "Flat Out", and  
I've started reading it.  It's way more entertaining than I expected  
-- well-written, funny, informative, and so on.  I heartily suggest  
that you get a copy of the book to add to your collection of Land  
Speed Racing books.

No, I'm not on Rocky's payroll -- I paid for my copy.  I don't know  
if Jonathon's website store carries the book (for that matter, I  
don't know if he's got the store back up yet), but if he doesn't  
carry the book, he should.

I'm only about 20% done with the book -- and here I am, recommending  
it.  That's how much I'm enjoying "Flat Out".

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 12:26:00 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:26:00 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Bailout Test>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <082720071826.24474.46D31738000CFF3100005F9A22092299270101090E030906@comcast.net>

The blindfold suggestion during the bailout test makes a lot of sense to me.  A simple, loose-fitting black bag over the helmet would be an easy way to accomplish this. 

If nothing else, I will practice this  procedure myself just as a drill. 

JGMagoo
aka Jim McNaul

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 27 12:53:43 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:53:43 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] learning part 2
References: <01ba01c7e7a6$af7646a0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <001e01c7e8db$a092de10$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Keith--you keep talking like this them Alabamy people are going to start 
thinking you're a polymath or maybe even a morphologist.

Lance

PS-keep it up anyway, good stuff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:02 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] learning part 2


> The other thing I wanted to bring up here with this learning junk... is 
> the 4
> levels of learning.  Often we'll stop learning because we think we "have 
> it"
> and don't need to reinforce the change in behavior past the level we're 
> at...
> so here are the 4 levels of learning.
>
> Rote, Understanding, Application and Correlation
>
> Rote.... is the simple memorization of a skill and the ability to repeat 
> it
> back after you've learned it.  This is the very basis of learning a 
> skill....
> think of the shut down procedures your going to use...  Parachute, ease 
> off
> the throttle, put the car in Neutral, check temp's.  The ability to repeat
> that back is Rote learning.
>
> Understanding... is knowing why you do each of those things... I drive 
> into
> the chute underpower, then back off the throttle, slip the car into 
> neutral
> and then take a peak at how bad I hurt it.
>
> Application... is the physical use of the steps... what you really do
> mechanically in the car... touching each of the handles and making sure 
> you
> get it all in the proper sequence.
>
> Correlation ... is putting the shut down procedures with all of the rest 
> of it
> to actually make a pass.... there's start procedures, launch procedures, 
> run
> stuff and ultimately what you do in shut down... so basically Correlation 
> is
> putting together a complete series of the independent events to compete a
> single run...
>
> Keith ( okay I'll try and put all of this together for you in the last one 
> of
> these )

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Aug 27 12:54:17 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:54:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...
In-Reply-To: <46C9EF56.00000F.02672@TOM>
References: <00b101c7e349$03945900$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46C9EF56.00000F.02672@TOM>
Message-ID: <031701c7e8db$ab86ab80$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Tom;

This may indicate an oil dilution problem; could the alcohol be dribbling
into a cylinder or two when the engine is shut off? If it leaks down past
the rings into the pan it will dilute your oil and cause this type of
problem.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Tom Bryant
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 12:45 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net; Keith Turk
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...

Keith and all,

Our problems at Speedweek were brain fade! As you know, we had been fighting
a fuel delivery problem for two years. I fixed the problem by installing a
Kinsler Vapor Separator System. It seemed to work well at the Lakes in May,
so I went to the salt expecting all to be well with the fuel system.

We had multiple problems...first a plugged nozzle attributed to a new hose I
made for the system at the barrel valve. After cleaning "all" the nozzles to
be safe, I thought now we had it whipped. It was better on eight cylinders,
but still running in the low 230s. After a couple of runs, we decided to run
a leakage test on the cylinders. We found the head gasket leaking between #3
& #5 cylinders. We pulled the head and replaced the gasket. Now we were
certain that it would run in the high 140s. Wrong again! A run at 135, still
not pulling well in high gear and we didn't have the computer turned on to
gather info.

We had hooked up a pressure sensor on the Vapor Cannister to see just what
was happening there and moved our fuel pressure monitoring to the barrel
valve side of the compensator valve (a part of the vapor system that is
supposed to compensate for the pressure added to the suction of the Injector
Pump). Our ninth run, we did have the computer on and set. We got some very
useful info, but unfortunately, with all the concentration on performance
problems I neglected to change the oil soon enough which ended up spinning a
bearing. The chain reaction cost me a crankshaft two rods and pistons a
camshaft and two lifters, timing gear set and a badly bruised block. BTW
what does the listers have to say about oil? I have been running Pennzoil
20W/50W for several years. I heard from a couple of sources before this
mishap that Pennzoil doesn't like alky. Any comments?

More later.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Aug 27 13:02:36 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:02:36 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] suspension
In-Reply-To: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E4@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
References: <c38.1c2233e2.33fb1c82@aol.com>
	<DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D165E4@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <031801c7e8dc$d51a2ca0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

David;

Springs are springs, no matter what they're made of-- air, rubber, steel, or
unobtanium. Spring materials do vary on things like spring rate, linearity,
and hysteresis (energy absorbed, like a built- in shock absorber) so there
are differences in how they react to bump & rebound forces.

I knew a fellow who wanted to build a small displacement road race car using
multiple valve springs in his suspension (instead of the usual coil springs)
in order to save weight. I don't know if he ever built that car but it
should have worked.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Adin, David
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 10:58 AM
Cc: land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: [Land-speed] suspension

I've "heard" a lot about the air bag suspension systems:  cheap and make
a pig into a road course wonder, etc.

Any thoughts on how this might work on the salt (twould be cool to lower
the car onto the salt, eh?)

Any thoughts, comments, hints would be appreciated.

David in Durango
_______________________________________________

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Aug 27 13:08:47 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:08:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] British superiority in engineering?
In-Reply-To: <200708201710_MC3-1-EB20-B47F@compuserve.com>
References: <200708201710_MC3-1-EB20-B47F@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <031901c7e8dd$b26999b0$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Malcolm & Mayf;

I think that "Engineering" phrase on the JCB press release was a product of
their marketing or public relations group so let's not put much emphasis on
it.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
MPittwood at compuserve.com
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 2:10 PM
To: Land Speed List
Subject: [Land-speed] British superiority in engineering?

Mayf & list

I did not see in the latest article any claims of British superiority in
engineering - although in the case of the diesel power unit its engineering
performance could be inferred from holding the LSR and being more efficient
and accepting more boost pressure than the Audi or Peugeot LeMans race
diesels or any F1 or Champ Car engines.

Andy Green's quote was  "  ...... a great opportunity to show the world
what British design and engineering skill can achieve."

I would not agree that the US press ............... given a story on a
forthcoming outright world speed record bid ................... would hold
back from making claims regarding the engineering or manufacturing skills
of their own Country or countrymen involved in the project.

[Maybe I cannot see where and when the engineering skills .......... of a
major British business (arguably the best designer and maker of yellow
painted construction digger vehicles (LOL)), that is worth billions - in
association with some high profile partners - decides to spend a 'modest
amount' of turnover on a publicity or marketing driven LSR bid,
............. are replaced by or because of the amount of money spent.].

Would you expect a world class business to limit the enthusiaism for its
successes? (The PR consultancy would be sacked for holding back -
regardless of their Country of origin).

Of course we know that the LSR outright wheeldriven record will only fall
to a "superior" effort by the British ..................  because of
Goodyear state of the art high speed tyres (450 + mph)  - made to be
superior than all others in the USA.

Many in the UK in LSR circles hope that the tyres will be made available to
all racers.  At the moment I do not know anything that would keep the tyres
just to the JCB team.  But what size will they be?  Will US racers want
them?

Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Aug 27 13:11:26 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:11:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bailout Test>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <082720071826.24474.46D31738000CFF3100005F9A22092299270101090E030906@comcast.net>
References: <082720071826.24474.46D31738000CFF3100005F9A22092299270101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46D321DE.6000806@mayfco.com>

Ok, all...I have seen a number of references to using a blind fold 
during the bail out procedures. I am not sure of the reason for this? I 
don't race in the dark. My car is not enclosed.   Is it to demonstrate 
proficiency? If so, then you really need to set the car on fire and test 
the driver, lol... And why, suddenly, is this kind of thinking 
surfacing?  Is there a pending lawsuit? How many vehicles have run 
without this kind of "testing"  Have drivers proven to be unsafe or 
incapable of getting out? Has there been cases where the driver was 
sufficiently dazed that he could not escape?  HAve there been cases 
where the driver was unfazed by a wreck or fire but he forgot what to do 
to get out and had to be rescued?  Just curious as to where this comes 
from. I know Dan or someone mentioned the guy who had trouble at the 
starting line and that is understandable.  In order to determine 
proficiency doesn't the tester have to have the same or better 
proficiency in the specific vehicle? How does the tester know where my 
switches are, how to shut my car off safely in an upset conditon?  Ie, 
the F16 fighter pilot doesn't know how the Aapache helicopter works so 
he should not be testing the chopper pilot. Me I have one big switch on 
my dash that kills everything, another on the rear of the car. I have 
one big chute release. And one big brake pedal. And one big harness 
release. And two big fire bottle pulls.  How much stuff is needed to 
demonstrate proficiency? To me driver safety comes in the form of a good 
solid design that is ergonomic and strong.

mayf, wondering where this is going..


jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:

>The blindfold suggestion during the bailout test makes a lot of sense to me.  A simple, loose-fitting black bag over the helmet would be an easy way to accomplish this. 
>
>If nothing else, I will practice this  procedure myself just as a drill. 
>
>JGMagoo
>aka Jim McNaul
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gary_ellen at msn.com  Mon Aug 27 13:46:42 2007
From: gary_ellen at msn.com (Ellen Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:46:42 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] "Flat Out"
In-Reply-To: <E632143A-3388-4A3C-8F34-3C6273348F05@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F39F891809189AB4EE17ED6F9D20@phx.gbl>

   Read Dan Wrights book review at www.saltflats.com  .  We have added it
   to our store!
   Gary & Ellen Wilkinson
   Utah Salt Flats Racing Association
   World of Speed Sept. 12 - 15, 2007
   www.saltflats.com -See you on the Salt!
       ______________________________________________________________

     From:  Jon Wennerberg <JON at infodestruction.com>
     To:  land-speed-digest List <land-speed at autox.team.net>
     Subject:  [Land-speed] "Flat Out"
     Date:  Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:17:50 -0400
     >At  SpeedWeek  we  got a copy of Rocky Robinson's book "Flat Out",
     and
     >I've  started  reading  it.  It's  way  more  entertaining  than I
     expected
     >--  well-written,  funny,  informative,  and  so  on.  I  heartily
     suggest
     >that you get a copy of the book to add to your collection of Land
     >Speed Racing books.
     >
     >No,  I'm  not  on  Rocky's payroll -- I paid for my copy.  I don't
     know
     >if Jonathon's website store carries the book (for that matter, I
     >don't know if he's got the store back up yet), but if he doesn't
     >carry the book, he should.
     >
     >I'm  only  about  20%  done  with  the  book  --  and  here  I am,
     recommending
     >it.  That's how much I'm enjoying "Flat Out".
     >
     >                  Jon Wennerberg
     >Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
     >               Marquette, Michigan
     >               (that's 'way up north)
     >_______________________________________________
     >gary_ellen at msn.com
     >
     >Land-speed mailing list
     >
     >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Aug 27 13:47:40 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:47:40 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070827072128.024631e0@cae.wisc.edu>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20070827072128.024631e0@cae.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <50AC3DB6A6784998BC4F6B9322B7F993@LMS>

John, When I was programing myself in the American Eagle car I had my eyse 
closed and was going through all of these gyrations with my hands and 
arms---one of the guys wife asked, "What are you doing"?---my reply"Dirt 
Dancing!"
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "john robinson" <john at engr.wisc.edu>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills


 Escaping from a vehicle in -- an allotted time should be on both the 
builders and drivers mind, and the
> driver should have much needed practice getting out.

An example of
> practice, as a skydiver, we try to practice the jump maneuvers three times
> correctly before we make a jump, muscle memory comes into play here, and 
> if
> you do it wrong once and practice correctly only once or even twice before
> the jump, we find you will forget a maneuver, and blow the jump.
>
>           John Robinson, Mechanician
>   Mechanical Engineering University of Wisconsin
>                 1513 University Ave.
>                  Madison, Wi. 53706
>                     608-262-3606
>            Current World Land Speed Record Holder
>                  Bonneville Salt Flats
>                      H/GCC 92 cu.in. 1980 Dodge Colt
>                  144.396 MPH set 2000
>         Antarctic Ice Driller 2002-03
>         Greenland Ice Driller 2006
> _______________________________________________
> sparky.2211 at cox.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Aug 27 13:56:16 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:56:16 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Bailout Test>From>Jim McNaul
References: <082720071826.24474.46D31738000CFF3100005F9A22092299270101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46D32C5D.000001.02856@TOM>

Jim,

I tried to reply to your former email about the Burt Monroe Pictures, but it
was bounced back twice. I will reply here and see if it works.

In the Photo Album, accessed from my web page, the pictures of Burt's bike
on display, were taken at a Department Store in In Invercargill NZ, Burt's
hometown.  I suspect the bike is still in NZ. I am not sure who owns it, but
it was said that the movie people tried to get it for the movie, but could
not. They had two replicas made for the movie.

On the subject line...I have likely had more seat time at Bonneville than
anyone else on the network. This is not to brag, but it does qualify me to
make these comments.

I have no objection to bailout procedures. In fact when I look back at how
we used to operate, frankly, it scares me. Anyone could get into a fast car
and there were no restrictions or tests that I am aware of. The bailout
procedure is fairly new and a good thing, especially for new drivers. The
licensing process is also good, but does not give anyone enough experience
to be a good driver. However, it does help to get accustom to the car and
the course. Safety is important. Just discussing this is good because it
puts the subject into our thinking process. Just like taking a "First Aid
Course" makes you a more cautious person. At least for a while.

Personally, I think the most dangerous situations are the new young drivers.
The young have great reactions, but can be too brave. Regardless of all the
talk about driver's training and such, although it can give you an edge,
there is no substitute for seat time. Driving at Bonneville is unlike
anything you will find on asphalt.  Sometimes, great reactions will get you
into trouble. It seems to me that, on the salt, you should  "herd" a car
rather than drive it.

Unlike other venues, there is lots of room, which allows for measured
corrections, as opposed to following a tight line. When lifting the throttle
 care should be taken not to lift completely. This is much like applying the
brakes to the rear wheel and can create a problem. This is a natural
reaction to an uncomfortable condition. I have had this happen to me on icy
highways twice. Both times, after I recovered my composure,  I applied a
little power and was able to drive out of the problem.

The quote, "Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes
from bad judgment" is applicable here. Unfortunately, some times you don't
chance to learn from your mistakes. So listening to others can help. I
learned to drive on muddy roads, snow and ice. In my judgement, this
prepares you for the conditions at the salt as well as anything can.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From david_dymaxion at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 27 14:07:00 2007
From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com (David Dymaxion)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:07:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Race 2 the Future
Message-ID: <868810.25535.qm@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Race 2 the Future promotes using alternate fuel vehicles to race on the Salt
Flats. The Buckeye Bullet wasn't there as I had hoped (315 mph on batteries!),
but I enjoyed seeing 2 electric Salt Flats racers, plus a couple of
neighborhood electric vehicles, plus a few more cars. I posted a few pictures
from the event:

<http://www.explodingdinosaurs.com/race2thefuture18Aug2007>
_____________________________________________________________________________
_______
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Mon Aug 27 14:09:18 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:09:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Burts Bike
In-Reply-To: <46D32C5D.000001.02856@TOM>
References: <082720071826.24474.46D31738000CFF3100005F9A22092299270101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<46D32C5D.000001.02856@TOM>
Message-ID: <0FA1B6E3427E4AA1AEDB173170F08229@LMS>

Tom,  In 1980 it was displayed in the NZ Transportation Museum--at the 
Aukland airport.

      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message -----  

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Mon Aug 27 14:40:01 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:40:01 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...
References: <00b101c7e349$03945900$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46C9EF56.00000F.02672@TOM> <031701c7e8db$ab86ab80$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <46D3369A.000006.02856@TOM>

Neil,

I think that I have come to a conclusion on what my problems were. I spent
about an hour on the phone with Kinsler's tech, Brad. I understand  better
how the Vapor Canister Valve Controls  work. It doesn't seem likely that the
Vapor System was the problem with performance, although I did get lower
pressure readings at the barrel valve than at the pump. I had not measured
the pressure there before, so have nothing to compare it with. It still
doesn't seem to me that 15-20 psi should be lost through the filter and
lines, though.

When I disassembled the engine,  I found the bolts attaching the timing gear
to the cam were not tight, why I don't know. (the last time it was apart was
after Speedweek 2005)  I generally use Loctite on critical fasteners. Maybe,
I failed to get them tight in the first place. I just don't know!  I run a
Cloyes Gear & Roller Chain Set that is adjustable by a rotating button on
the cam dowel pin. When I removed the fuel pump drive, I found the button in
its most retarded position and broken into several pieces. I dialed checked
the cam and found it to be about 20 degrees retarded. At first, I thought
that this all had taken place when the cam got hit by the broken rod, but
after thinking about it for a while, I believe the cam was retarded all week
 I just didn't have the presences of mind to check cam timing. We did check
for proper TDC when we were replacing the head gasket. It would have been a
simple task to have checked for proper cam timing at the same time.

The truth of the matter will never be known. The engine was on the lean side
(1150-1250 EGTs) on top end all week even with a .018 span of jet choices. I
still got the oil loaded with alcohol.  Things may become more clear when we
see what happens with a fresh motor.

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Mon Aug 27 15:30:27 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:30:27 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] fires @ bend in the road
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16627@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Does Burec bless fires at the Bend in the Road?

Okay or not, please advise.

David in Durango

From kturk at ala.net  Mon Aug 27 16:12:19 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:12:19 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
Message-ID: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

The point of the driving skills exercise was to get us off our collective
butts and to start talking of things that have value...

We are a very intelligent group of racers...( just a sec... Glen... not so
fast )... we don't have to talk about each other... or money... we can
actually talk about ideas....  that was mine... it was a subject that has
carried us for days and made the list at least a bit interesting....  Now it's
your turn...  Think of something we can discuss to answer a question... ask a
question in general... or whatever... this is your play ground... jump in...

Oh and you folks out there just monitoring and not adding anything of value...
it's time... jump your nappy butt in and say HELLO.... My name is.... and I've
been doing this for XXXX number of years....  you wouldn't be quite in a group
discussion at a Saturday night bench racing session.... open up...

Hmmmm  Oh be nice to each other...   Just .... well be nice dang it!!!

Keith

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Aug 27 16:47:44 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:47:44 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
References: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <009c01c7e8fc$48cbb1e0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Keith
All I am doing is reading and verifying records. But I might not be quiet 
forever, Say hi to Tonya.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 4:12 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )


> The point of the driving skills exercise was to get us off our collective
> butts and to start talking of things that have value...
>
> We are a very intelligent group of racers...( just a sec... Glen... not so
> fast )... we don't have to talk about each other... or money... we can
> actually talk about ideas....  that was mine... it was a subject that has
> carried us for days and made the list at least a bit interesting....  Now 
> it's
> your turn...  Think of something we can discuss to answer a question... 
> ask a
> question in general... or whatever... this is your play ground... jump 
> in...
>
> Oh and you folks out there just monitoring and not adding anything of 
> value...
> it's time... jump your nappy butt in and say HELLO.... My name is.... and 
> I've
> been doing this for XXXX number of years....  you wouldn't be quite in a 
> group
> discussion at a Saturday night bench racing session.... open up...
>
> Hmmmm  Oh be nice to each other...   Just .... well be nice dang it!!!
>
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 17:40:17 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:40:17 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] fires @ bend in the road
References: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16627@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <006c01c7e903$a35663b0$6501a8c0@S>

David--
I've been hanging out at the "Bend" since 1986 when the original Roads End
Gang (Dr Flame-O Hostetter and Bonneville Bill Bernstrauch) could still camp
at the end of the asphalt.  I missed a few years don't recall any
"guvinment" types complaining about campfires.  There was one story I heard
but didn't witness about a Utah highway patrolman driving 25 miles west on I
80 to investigate a very bright white light he saw on the horizon.  He
arrived at the bend, received a cordial welcome and saw the remains of a
burning VW crankcase as the answer to his white light observation.  That was
it far as I know.
About a mile up the ranch road from the Bend there is a BLM sign and the
usual instructions for recreational use of the lands throughout the Silver
Mountain area.  I checked it out on Monday and don't recall anything other
than the expected rules for campfires same as most other desert areas.
So as far as campfires are concerned I'm pretty sure they are OK if within
the bounds of common sense........Uhhhhh.......OK, maybe large amounts of
magnesium fuel is pushing it a little.  But hey!! This is a 20 plus year
SpeedWeek tradition...........
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
To: <land-speed at Autox.Team.Net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] fires @ bend in the road


> Does Burec bless fires at the Bend in the Road?
> Okay or not, please advise.
> David in Durango

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Aug 27 17:42:55 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:42:55 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <00d501c7e7c2$d6ba8c50$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
References: <46D0D105.9080104@mayfco.com>
	<00d501c7e7c2$d6ba8c50$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <00a701c7e903$fdeed550$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Dave;

I think that quote "... there are only 3 sports; mountain climbing, bull
fighting, and motor racing..." is from Earnest Hemmingway.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
ddahlgren at snet.net
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:24 AM
To: drmayf at mayfco.com; 'LSR'
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills

The  problem is this, it is our society or lack there of. In the 50's if
someone did something silly well at least in the observers eyes they
just said that was a shame to die doing that.. Now we have to find the
guilty party as there is always someone to blame for every thing.
Litigation is the king now you can not come up with a disclaimer that
covers everyone and everything F Lee Baily can not neither can L Patrick
Grey.. So don't think you can or your local attorney can there is always
a way to sue. Why do you think tires are so  problematic. It is not that
they can not be made or can not be profitable. They don't want to sell
1000 tires for 500 bucks each and have to buy them back at 20 million
each. Selling those tires has to be right up there with being the
official rope provider for climbing Mt. Everest..

Age has nothing to do with capability in general but is a factor to be
considered. Lets not forget for one moment that the majority of those
involved with this sport are reliving a youth missed but now we can do
it as we can afford to be young in actions and deeds at least but the
physical part left a long while ago. I have always wanted to fly a jet
fighter though growing up and being the right age to take that up during
the Vietnam war was a bad plan. The spookiest thing I ever saw was in
the back lot of the local air museum, an F4 with Lt. Dahlgren under the
canopy that was riddled with bullet holes.. What I am getting at is life
is not always fair and you can't always do what you want but each has to
be judged on an individual basis and if you don't meet the standards you
dont know moving them to accommodate someone because everyone gets to
play.. This is not T-ball sorry..

FWIW there are only 3 sports mountain climbing bull fighting and motor
racing the rest are 'games'  and pro or amateur the rewards and
sacrifices are identical.
Dave

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 17:48:16 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:48:16 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
References: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<009c01c7e8fc$48cbb1e0$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <007501c7e904$c1ac1610$6501a8c0@S>

Gheeesh, Glen!  So that's how the records get verified and become official.
Good thing this isn't the NHRA or they'd have you take a vision and
temperence test before they belted you into your easy chair.  Too bad you
can't get the Board to hire you a summer intern for the clerical work.......
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "Keith Turk" <kturk at ala.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )


> Keith
> All I am doing is reading and verifying records. But I might not be quiet
> forever, Say hi to Tonya.
> Glen

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Aug 27 17:50:05 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:50:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
In-Reply-To: <cb0.19702c8b.34032ef4@aol.com>
References: <cb0.19702c8b.34032ef4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00b001c7e904$fe261c80$0200a8c0@DBTech>

That's a great TV show description, Bob :)

Neil  Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
BWANA343 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:31 PM
To: speedtimer at beyondbb.com; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills

Welcome to KTV on Speedvision, sponsored by  Diet Coke, Marlboro, and  who 
ever made that Purple Fire Suit. 
Follow the wild and wacky adventures of Keith, his faithful sidekick  
Tonto,er Tonya, laff a minute Dave Frieburger, Doc Dahlgren, Capt Joe Timney
as  they 
cruise America in the Girly CamEro in search of multiple records and the  
Elephants lost graveyard.
If Dancing with the Stars sells,so will this...
Bob, misses Gilligan,W

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Mon Aug 27 17:59:14 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:59:14 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Bailout Test>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <46D321DE.6000806@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <002101c7e906$45c93bc0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

The ability to see should not be assumed perhaps..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of drmayf
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:11 PM
To: jgmagoo at comcast.net
Cc: land-speed-digest
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bailout Test>From>Jim McNaul


Ok, all...I have seen a number of references to using a blind fold
during the bail out procedures. I am not sure of the reason for this? I
don't race in the dark. My car is not enclosed.   Is it to demonstrate
proficiency? If so, then you really need to set the car on fire and test

the driver, lol... And why, suddenly, is this kind of thinking
surfacing?  Is there a pending lawsuit? How many vehicles have run
without this kind of "testing"  Have drivers proven to be unsafe or
incapable of getting out? Has there been cases where the driver was
sufficiently dazed that he could not escape?  HAve there been cases
where the driver was unfazed by a wreck or fire but he forgot what to do

to get out and had to be rescued?  Just curious as to where this comes
from. I know Dan or someone mentioned the guy who had trouble at the
starting line and that is understandable.  In order to determine
proficiency doesn't the tester have to have the same or better
proficiency in the specific vehicle? How does the tester know where my
switches are, how to shut my car off safely in an upset conditon?  Ie,
the F16 fighter pilot doesn't know how the Aapache helicopter works so
he should not be testing the chopper pilot. Me I have one big switch on
my dash that kills everything, another on the rear of the car. I have
one big chute release. And one big brake pedal. And one big harness
release. And two big fire bottle pulls.  How much stuff is needed to
demonstrate proficiency? To me driver safety comes in the form of a good

solid design that is ergonomic and strong.

mayf, wondering where this is going..

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date:
8/25/2007 5:00 PM

From jolylance at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 27 18:14:41 2007
From: jolylance at earthlink.net (joseph lance)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:14:41 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Driving skills
References: <46D0D105.9080104@mayfco.com><00d501c7e7c2$d6ba8c50$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
	<00a701c7e903$fdeed550$0200a8c0@DBTech>
Message-ID: <001001c7e908$75776e80$2101a8c0@WinXP>

Yes, it's from Hemmingway.  I believe the whole quote is "there are only 
three real sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and auto racing--all 
the rest are mere games"

Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <neil at dbelltech.com>
To: <ddahlgren at snet.net>; <drmayf at mayfco.com>; "'LSR'" 
<land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills


> Dave;
>
> I think that quote "... there are only 3 sports; mountain climbing, bull
> fighting, and motor racing..." is from Earnest Hemmingway.
>
> Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:land-speed-bounces+neil=dbelltech.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
> ddahlgren at snet.net
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:24 AM
> To: drmayf at mayfco.com; 'LSR'
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Driving skills
>
> The  problem is this, it is our society or lack there of. In the 50's if
> someone did something silly well at least in the observers eyes they
> just said that was a shame to die doing that.. Now we have to find the
> guilty party as there is always someone to blame for every thing.
> Litigation is the king now you can not come up with a disclaimer that
> covers everyone and everything F Lee Baily can not neither can L Patrick
> Grey.. So don't think you can or your local attorney can there is always
> a way to sue. Why do you think tires are so  problematic. It is not that
> they can not be made or can not be profitable. They don't want to sell
> 1000 tires for 500 bucks each and have to buy them back at 20 million
> each. Selling those tires has to be right up there with being the
> official rope provider for climbing Mt. Everest..
>
> Age has nothing to do with capability in general but is a factor to be
> considered. Lets not forget for one moment that the majority of those
> involved with this sport are reliving a youth missed but now we can do
> it as we can afford to be young in actions and deeds at least but the
> physical part left a long while ago. I have always wanted to fly a jet
> fighter though growing up and being the right age to take that up during
> the Vietnam war was a bad plan. The spookiest thing I ever saw was in
> the back lot of the local air museum, an F4 with Lt. Dahlgren under the
> canopy that was riddled with bullet holes.. What I am getting at is life
> is not always fair and you can't always do what you want but each has to
> be judged on an individual basis and if you don't meet the standards you
> dont know moving them to accommodate someone because everyone gets to
> play.. This is not T-ball sorry..
>
> FWIW there are only 3 sports mountain climbing bull fighting and motor
> racing the rest are 'games'  and pro or amateur the rewards and
> sacrifices are identical.
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> jolylance at earthlink.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed 

From neil at dbelltech.com  Mon Aug 27 18:29:51 2007
From: neil at dbelltech.com (neil at dbelltech.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:29:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...
In-Reply-To: <46D3369A.000006.02856@TOM>
References: <00b101c7e349$03945900$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46C9EF56.00000F.02672@TOM> <031701c7e8db$ab86ab80$0200a8c0@DBTech>
	<46D3369A.000006.02856@TOM>
Message-ID: <00c801c7e90a$8c809410$0200a8c0@DBTech>

Tom;

It's easy to forget which bolts have been torqued or Loctited. I usually try
to write "L" with a Magic Marker on the heads of bolts that I've Loctited
and torqued; this way if I get interrupted while working I don't have to
remember what I had done (or not done) previously.

Good luck getting it back together. Keep an eye out for oil dilution,
though-especially with alky.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

  _____  

From: Tom Bryant [mailto:saltracer at awwwsome.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:40 PM
To: land-speed at autox.team.net; 'Keith Turk'; neil at dbelltech.com
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] Speedweek tips and thoughts...

 


Neil,

 

I think that I have come to a conclusion on what my problems were. I spent
about an hour on the phone with Kinsler's tech, Brad. I understand  better
how the Vapor Canister Valve Controls  work. It doesn't seem likely that the
Vapor System was the problem with performance, although I did get lower
pressure readings at the barrel valve than at the pump. I had not measured
the pressure there before, so have nothing to compare it with. It still
doesn't seem to me that 15-20 psi should be lost through the filter and
lines, though.

 

When I disassembled the engine,  I found the bolts attaching the timing gear
to the cam were not tight, why I don't know. (the last time it was apart was
after Speedweek 2005)  I generally use Loctite on critical fasteners. Maybe,
I failed to get them tight in the first place. I just don't know!  I run a
Cloyes Gear & Roller Chain Set that is adjustable by a rotating button on
the cam dowel pin. When I removed the fuel pump drive, I found the button in
its most retarded position and broken into several pieces. I dialed checked
the cam and found it to be about 20 degrees retarded. At first, I thought
that this all had taken place when the cam got hit by the broken rod, but
after thinking about it for a while, I believe the cam was retarded all
week. I just didn't have the presences of mind to check cam timing. We did
check for proper TDC when we were replacing the head gasket. It would have
been a simple task to have checked for proper cam timing at the same time. 

 

The truth of the matter will never be known. The engine was on the lean side
(1150-1250 EGTs) on top end all week even with a .018 span of jet choices. I
still got the oil loaded with alcohol.  Things may become more clear when we
see what happens with a fresh motor.

 

Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/FCC

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg]

From wayneyeats at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 27 18:34:33 2007
From: wayneyeats at yahoo.com (Wayne Yeats)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:34:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] Bail out
Message-ID: <829828.49122.qm@web60425.mail.yahoo.com>

Keith, I'm in the middle of building my Lakester right
now and attention to the successful bailing is right
on the top of my list right now. Thanx. Wayno (Elmo Rodge)


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 27 19:04:48 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:04:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
References: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p><009c01c7e8fc$48cbb1e0$6401a8c0@Glens>
	<007501c7e904$c1ac1610$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <002001c7e90f$6e8d1730$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Glen gets to verify his hand numbers with the ones of the tapes, figure 
which mile to use, and if the course was the right one. I get to look at the 
56 pages, that's right folks 56 pages landscape style, determine which 
vehicle numbers did not set the final records and start looking for the 
fastest speed for the blue tags. Can't use the exit speed so those are lined 
out, can't use the quarter mile speed cause tha't only to get on the long 
course, then type them all out for the engraver. Yes, I get calls on why 
can't I have the 1/4 mile speed it was my fastest.

Then I'll go thru Glens record stuff trying to match them with Eds numbers 
on following days for the records. I'll do all the certs and send them off 
to Glen who will go thru them and tell me about 20% are wrong, switched 2 
numbers, spelled the entry name wrong, wrong date etc. After all the certs 
are correct I'll do the red tags with Glens numbers even if the the record 
on the site is different than Ed's. (just the way it is folks)

While I'm doing this I get to do 3 more El Mirage meets plus the World Fnals 
which is done the same way speed week is....I also get requests for 
duplicates, e-mail on where are my tags?, Where are mine from last year , 
etc..By the way I have 15 envelops from the last few years with 
undeliverable addresses record certs included.

At this time I would like to prepare my car for World Finals and El Mirage, 
manage and play on a adult Slow-Pitch ball club and watch my grandson play 
Football. I know what I'd rather do--------play soft ball.

I've tried to get fired by Jim Lattin and he says no way. So why everyone 
else is worried about how to get out of their car in a firesuit they have 
never worn, blind folded with a bag over their head. I'll just plunk thru 
the pages of numbers and have a few chuckles.

PS: Ed W summer intern----get real





> Gheeesh, Glen!  So that's how the records get verified and become 
> official.
> Good thing this isn't the NHRA or they'd have you take a vision and
> temperence test before they belted you into your easy chair.  Too bad you
> can't get the Board to hire you a summer intern for the clerical 
> work.......
> Ed Weldon
>
>> Keith
>> All I am doing is reading and verifying records. But I might not be quiet
>> forever, Say hi to Tonya.
>> Glen

From lsr1301 at dahmurf.com  Mon Aug 27 19:42:52 2007
From: lsr1301 at dahmurf.com (DahMurf)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:42:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
In-Reply-To: <007501c7e904$c1ac1610$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <PKEAJDAKJMECPJDGNLFLAEKODIAA.lsr1301@dahmurf.com>

My next question, why does it take
ssssssssssssssssssssssooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long for my responses to
make it to the list? It's 9:41 pm EST. Lets see how long this one takes. I
sent one earlier, around 6pm EST & it's not there yet. :^/

Deb

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 19:44:43 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:44:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw:  HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
Message-ID: <009e01c7e915$04f3a590$6501a8c0@S>

Forward to list...pulling JD's chain.........
EW
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )


> Glen-- WOW!! you already have an intern!  Bit long in the tooth; but seems
> to love the job.  Yea, Jim Lattin!  Good Judgement......
> Seriously, it's always interesting to get glimpses of the behind the
scenes
> stuff in SCTA/BNI.  Someone should write a book about it.  Might even sell
a
> couple of hundred copies.  Hey you writers out there ----- Got a pesty
> publisher you really hate?  How about a brother in law?
> Focus now....... Check list item.  Keep the roadster away from the
> inspectors if JD is around..........
> Ed Weldon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "J.D. Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
> To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
> ........... I'll go thru Glens record stuff trying to match them with Eds
> numbers
> > on following days for the records. I'll do all the certs and send them
off
> > to Glen who will go thru them and tell me about 20% are wrong, switched
2
> > numbers, spelled the entry name wrong, wrong date etc.
> >I know what I'd rather do--------play soft ball.
> >
> > I've tried to get fired by Jim Lattin and he says no way. So why
everyone
> > else is worried about how to get out of their car in a firesuit they
have
> > never worn, blind folded with a bag over their head. I'll just plunk
thru
> > the pages of numbers and have a few chuckles.
> >
> > PS: Ed W summer intern----get real

From lsr1301 at dahmurf.com  Mon Aug 27 20:19:38 2007
From: lsr1301 at dahmurf.com (DahMurf)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:19:38 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
In-Reply-To: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <20070828021947.M17944@dahmurf.com>

Ok, I have a question. How come I write a small book in response to your 
question with some really good ideas and y'all act like I don't exist? 
Is it cause I ride a bike?
Is it cause I'm a girl?
Am I too young?
Too green?
Was it too long?
Do I have to show up in Bonneville before y'all will talk to me?

hmmmmmmmmmmmm ......... ?

Just wondering. Feel free to ignore me as usual. It still won't make me go 
away! :^P

Debbie #1302
Twin Jugs Racing

PS: I think the age "consideration" in your prior conversation is a bad one. 
I had a hip replacement at age 26 and I'm hearing impaired & have worn a 
hearing age since age 16. Both are typically "old age" issues but on a young 
person. Both "can" (but don't) inhibit my abilities in LSR. Both would 
likely go without notice since I'm "young" (or at least I "was" young! LOL)

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Mon Aug 27 20:57:45 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:57:45 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
References: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<20070828021947.M17944@dahmurf.com>
Message-ID: <00d001c7e91f$364d6bd0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Hey Deb, I love you and will always answer your questions.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DahMurf" <lsr1301 at dahmurf.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )


> Ok, I have a question. How come I write a small book in response to your
> question with some really good ideas and y'all act like I don't exist?
> Is it cause I ride a bike?
> Is it cause I'm a girl?
> Am I too young?
> Too green?
> Was it too long?
> Do I have to show up in Bonneville before y'all will talk to me?
>
> hmmmmmmmmmmmm ......... ?
>
> Just wondering. Feel free to ignore me as usual. It still won't make me go
> away! :^P
>
> Debbie #1302
> Twin Jugs Racing
>
> PS: I think the age "consideration" in your prior conversation is a bad 
> one.
> I had a hip replacement at age 26 and I'm hearing impaired & have worn a
> hearing age since age 16. Both are typically "old age" issues but on a 
> young
> person. Both "can" (but don't) inhibit my abilities in LSR. Both would
> likely go without notice since I'm "young" (or at least I "was" young! 
> LOL)
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 27 21:13:52 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:13:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
References: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<20070828021947.M17944@dahmurf.com>
Message-ID: <003101c7e921$768a34b0$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Actually I don't know who you are. But that's not a problem. I have a 
roadster and a vintage coupe, everyone seems to know that. Some of my best 
friends are bikers. I have a '91 hopped up Heritage and a restored 39 Indian 
Scout. Tom Evans hates me when I remind him in 1951 or 2 the first year 
M/C's were invited to run Bonneville they were to be on their best behavior 
to be invited back....I don't know what happened. I can't imagine a biker on 
"good behavior" On mine, I know I'm not.

Anyway the SCTA was born on roadsters, lakers & streamliners and no parts 
wash (gasoline) I'm old and I fit that.

As for remembering you.  In 10 minutes I can truthfully say "Honest Johnny 
Cochran I never met the person" and mean it. I takes me years. For good 
ideas, we change all the time just some sections are slower. I really don't 
know how the certs and tags were done before I got them but they took a 
long, long time and we had 150 entries. Keep trying is all I can 
say............................JD (Social Security is my friend)



> Ok, I have a question. How come I write a small book in response to your
> question with some really good ideas and y'all act like I don't exist?
> Is it cause I ride a bike?
> Is it cause I'm a girl?
> Am I too young?
> Too green?
> Was it too long?
> Do I have to show up in Bonneville before y'all will talk to me?

From kturk at ala.net  Mon Aug 27 21:16:46 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:16:46 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
References: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<20070828021947.M17944@dahmurf.com>
Message-ID: <008b01c7e921$de52a820$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Yeah Deb... I thought your quarter mile stuff was outstanding... great 
practice...

I think we've fairly well established that age isn't a determining factor 
here.... it's most about ability... you should see some of the folks that 
think they can drive a car 200mph...  and have NEVER putt on their gear and 
sat in the car.... they waddle up... try to fit in a to small cage and then 
get pissed at the fella's for making them go thru the egress.... I've seen 
it several times now...  it's honestly NOT normal... but the odd cases are 
fairly miserable.

Keith 

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 21:27:21 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:27:21 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] "Flat Out" and another ...
In-Reply-To: <E632143A-3388-4A3C-8F34-3C6273348F05@infodestruction.com>
References: <E632143A-3388-4A3C-8F34-3C6273348F05@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <fefabbdb010dde063bfe2ed82d3b967c@comcast.net>

I'm on volume 3, "The Fabulous Trashwagon" of four B. S. Levy books.
Another author who really understands racing and cars.  I can highly
recommend his series.  It builds on the first one so read them in
sequence.  Our SLC library has the first two on the shelves.  I was
introduced to them at the Miller Motorsports Park store where he
was autographing copies of "The Last Open Road."  He knows Keith
Turk which may or may not be a recommendation for his character.

Wes

On Aug 27, 2007, at 12:17 PM, Jon Wennerberg wrote:

> At SpeedWeek we got a copy of Rocky Robinson's book "Flat Out", and
> I've started reading it.  It's way more entertaining than I expected
> -- well-written, funny, informative, and so on.  I heartily suggest  
> that you get a copy of the book to add to your collection of Land
> Speed Racing books.
>
> No, I'm not on Rocky's payroll -- I paid for my copy.  I don't know
> if Jonathon's website store carries the book (for that matter, I
> don't know if he's got the store back up yet), but if he doesn't
> carry the book, he should.
>
> I'm only about 20% done with the book -- and here I am, recommending
> it.  That's how much I'm enjoying "Flat Out".
>
>                  Jon Wennerberg
> Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
>               Marquette, Michigan
>               (that's 'way up north)
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 21:48:27 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:48:27 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
References: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<20070828021947.M17944@dahmurf.com>
Message-ID: <00b901c7e926$4d405800$6501a8c0@S>

Debbie--
They're all scared they're going to insult you.  Or they're mostly car types
that don't understand bikes.  Or they're all still sleeping off SpeedWeek.
Or they're busy joining AARP. or......who knows?
Sometimes this bunch likes to just chat, sometimes they get real
philosophical, sometimes they're just too busy to read past the third
sentence in a posting.
As for me.........
I like the motorcycle racers in the LSR world.  They do a lot of neat stuff.
And they're a pretty solid bunch.  I promised Sandy, my wife of 44 years,
when we first started going together that I would just mess with cars and no
bikes.  She's full supported the car hobby ever since.  But I have to admit
that the state of engine development in the bike world offers some real
interesting stuff.
Women in the LSR sport are quite welcome to most of us.  Some of them are
especially good in the driver's seat.  They also have an advantage in square
inches of frontal area.
Young racers are the future of our sport. All the better if they are new at
it.  Without you there would be nobody who would listen to what us old
geezers say.
A well thought out and written commentary like yours of a few days ago is a
keeper.  You might be surprised at how many read it and even copy it for
future reference without saying anything.
So what'll it take to get you to Bonneville?
Ed Weldon


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DahMurf" <lsr1301 at dahmurf.com>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )


> Ok, I have a question. How come I write a small book in response to your
> question with some really good ideas and y'all act like I don't exist?
> Is it cause I ride a bike?
> Is it cause I'm a girl?
> Am I too young?
> Too green?
> Was it too long?
> Do I have to show up in Bonneville before y'all will talk to me?

> Debbie #1302
> Twin Jugs Racing

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 21:47:45 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:47:45 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bailout Test>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <46D321DE.6000806@mayfco.com>
References: <082720071826.24474.46D31738000CFF3100005F9A22092299270101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<46D321DE.6000806@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <8612258F-7A57-4D1D-A287-48B1944428D0@gmail.com>

On Aug 27, 2007, at 12:11 PM, drmayf wrote:

> Ok, all...I have seen a number of references to using a blind fold
> during the bail out procedures. I am not sure of the reason for  
> this? I
> don't race in the dark. My car is not enclosed.   Is it to demonstrate
> proficiency?
> <snip>
>
> mayf, wondering where this is going..
>

In the event that there is a fire, and the smoke is too thick for you  
to see what's happening in your cockpit, you should still be able to  
get out of the car, yes? I'm sure there is other issues that might  
arise to impair your vision, where you would want to get out of the car.

~Jon

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 21:49:24 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:49:24 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
In-Reply-To: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <003c01c7e8f7$57ae8610$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <a000e9d834875d1e48cd507ae86296c0@comcast.net>

I agree with Keith, but what he really means is you wouldn't be quiet 
in a
group discussion at a Saturday night bench racing session.

We have to look out for him, right Glen?

Wes

On Aug 27, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Keith Turk wrote:

> The point of the driving skills exercise was to get us off our 
> collective
> butts and to start talking of things that have value...
>
> We are a very intelligent group of racers...( just a sec... Glen... 
> not so
> fast )... we don't have to talk about each other... or money... we can
> actually talk about ideas....  that was mine... it was a subject that 
> has
> carried us for days and made the list at least a bit interesting....  
> Now it's
> your turn...  Think of something we can discuss to answer a 
> question... ask a
> question in general... or whatever... this is your play ground... jump 
> in...
>
> Oh and you folks out there just monitoring and not adding anything of 
> value...
> it's time... jump your nappy butt in and say HELLO.... My name is.... 
> and I've
> been doing this for XXXX number of years....  you wouldn't be quite in 
> a group
> discussion at a Saturday night bench racing session.... open up...
>
> Hmmmm  Oh be nice to each other...   Just .... well be nice dang it!!!
>
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> wester6935 at comcast.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From dlodom at charter.net  Mon Aug 27 21:54:05 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:54:05 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Timing slip question
Message-ID: <46D39C5D.7070805@charter.net>

OK, on my timing slips from Bonneville it shows wind 11.0 mph from the 
NW,Temp: 96.3F, Humid: 4%, ST: 5.680 and DA: 7531ft.
ST 5.680 means what? I understand the others.      Doug Odom in big ditch

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 22:03:44 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:03:44 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Bailout Test>From>Jim McNaul
References: <082720071826.24474.46D31738000CFF3100005F9A22092299270101090E030906@comcast.net><46D321DE.6000806@mayfco.com>
	<8612258F-7A57-4D1D-A287-48B1944428D0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c801c7e928$dec5b110$6501a8c0@S>

How about a "gentle" spray of ATF in the cockpit of a modified roadster at
200 plus.  Brian King can tell you about that.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Bishop" <jon.the.wise at gmail.com>
To: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Bailout Test>From>Jim McNaul


> On Aug 27, 2007, at 12:11 PM, drmayf wrote:
> > Ok, all...I have seen a number of references to using a blind fold
> > during the bail out procedures. I am not sure of the reason for
> > this? I
> > don't race in the dark. My car is not enclosed.   >

> In the event that there is a fire, and the smoke is too thick for you
> to see what's happening in your cockpit, you should still be able to
> get out of the car, yes? I'm sure there is other issues that might
> arise to impair your vision, where you would want to get out of the car.
> ~Jon

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Mon Aug 27 22:17:04 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:17:04 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Blindfold>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <082820070417.26885.46D3A1C0000710640000690522092299270101090E030906@comcast.net>

Hi Doc, 

The car I am building IS enclosed and the thought of going through "the shut-down-bail-out drill seems very real to me. 

If nothing else, I intend to practice it blindfolded, and upside down.

It was a suggestion offered in a constructive vein, absolutely no criticism intended. 

I know your car has an abundance of fresh air!!  You lucky dog!

I can hardly imagine anyone driving ANY car that he has to search and read the labels on the switches and buttons in order to use them!   ;o)  I even try to familiarize myself with the controls on a rental car before pulling out of the airport parking lot!

An airplane I used to fly had a WHEEL-shaped knob on the landing gear lever, and a FLAP-shaped knob on the flap lever.  Seemed like a pretty neat idea to me and the reasoning was obvious. 

Like the question posed by George Carlin:  "Why are the buttons on the ATM at the drive-up window at the bank also printed in braille?"

JG

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 27 22:59:13 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:59:13 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Race 2 the Future :  'Lectric Cars
Message-ID: <BAY135-W402C428B81DA170F5790F2D9D30@phx.gbl>

David D:got to give 'all you guys'  and 'the movement' a LOT of credit. I'm
impressed.there is not only a lot of interesting engineering going on there,
but it looks like someone hired somebody to be 'style police' as well.  A very
important thing to be sure...no style,   nobody buys.   Maybe a sad fact, but
a fact neverthelesskeep on keepin' on. I'm tired of being ripped off by rich
guys ever time I buy gasoline.  Though it REALLY makes me warm & fuzzy inside
every time I fuel up my souped up 25yr. old  Harley -Davidson Sportster and
check the mileage :  55 to 59mpg.   Screw the camel jockeys.  LOL  cheers,
'Dirt Track Doug' in So. New York,  -20 miles from Square Deal Raceway,   -20
miles east of Action Park Speedway,   -60 miles northeast of Champion Speedway
-105 miles south of  'the  Syracuse  Mile' ...  -265 miles north of Williams
Grove Speedway  -2225 miles due east of the Bonneville Salt Flats
and never more than a few feet from a cold one  -'point man' in the
never-ending search for Hot Blues,                            Cold Beer, Fast
Cars, an' Warm Willin' Wimin'  Speedway Bikes, Harley D's and Minibikes rode
with equal joy,    Dog Training, Murdersickel parts, Emergency Zeppelin
repairs,      Aerial Surveillance, Politics exposed for what it is, Sprint
Cars,        -and 'Slide Jobs' appreciated for the FINE ART that they
arecccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
co> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:07:00 -0700> From: david_dymaxion at yahoo.com> To:
ev at lists.sjsu.edu; land-speed at autox.team.net> Subject: [Land-speed] Race 2 the
Future> > Race 2 the Future promotes using alternate fuel vehicles to race on
the Salt> Flats. The Buckeye Bullet wasn't there as I had hoped (315 mph on
batteries!),> but I enjoyed seeing 2 electric Salt Flats racers, plus a couple
of> neighborhood electric vehicles, plus a few more cars. I posted a few
pictures> from the event:> >
<http://www.explodingdinosaurs.com/race2thefuture18Aug2007>>
_____________________________________________________________________________>
_______> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.>
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/>
_______________________________________________> boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com> >
Land-speed mailing list> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&
cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&
encType=1&FORM=MGAC01

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Aug 28 00:23:10 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 02:23:10 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
In-Reply-To: <002001c7e90f$6e8d1730$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>
Message-ID: <003201c7e93b$e8985c70$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

An excel spred sheet would do all that as fast as the data is entered
you are working way to hard and way too error prone.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+ddahlgren=snet.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of J.D. Tone
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:05 PM
To: Ed Weldon; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )


Glen gets to verify his hand numbers with the ones of the tapes, figure
which mile to use, and if the course was the right one. I get to look at
the
56 pages, that's right folks 56 pages landscape style, determine which
vehicle numbers did not set the final records and start looking for the
fastest speed for the blue tags. Can't use the exit speed so those are
lined
out, can't use the quarter mile speed cause tha't only to get on the
long
course, then type them all out for the engraver. Yes, I get calls on why

can't I have the 1/4 mile speed it was my fastest.

Then I'll go thru Glens record stuff trying to match them with Eds
numbers
on following days for the records. I'll do all the certs and send them
off
to Glen who will go thru them and tell me about 20% are wrong, switched
2
numbers, spelled the entry name wrong, wrong date etc. After all the
certs
are correct I'll do the red tags with Glens numbers even if the the
record
on the site is different than Ed's. (just the way it is folks)

While I'm doing this I get to do 3 more El Mirage meets plus the World
Fnals
which is done the same way speed week is....I also get requests for
duplicates, e-mail on where are my tags?, Where are mine from last year
,
etc..By the way I have 15 envelops from the last few years with
undeliverable addresses record certs included.

At this time I would like to prepare my car for World Finals and El
Mirage,
manage and play on a adult Slow-Pitch ball club and watch my grandson
play
Football. I know what I'd rather do--------play soft ball.

I've tried to get fired by Jim Lattin and he says no way. So why
everyone
else is worried about how to get out of their car in a firesuit they
have
never worn, blind folded with a bag over their head. I'll just plunk
thru
the pages of numbers and have a few chuckles.

PS: Ed W summer intern----get real


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date:
8/25/2007 5:00 PM

From wester6935 at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 01:38:16 2007
From: wester6935 at comcast.net (Wester Potter)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 01:38:16 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fwd: Speedtraps,  this is cool
Message-ID: <cc3ac1d9b908b1c955a198d91ca6efc2@comcast.net>

I'm sure you all know these areas to watch but it is interesting to see
others opinions.

Wes

Begin forwarded message:

> From: TwoDocBob at aol.com
> Date: August 28, 2007 12:26:42 AM MDT
> To: wester6935 at comcast.net

> Subject: Fwd: FW: Speedtraps,  this is cool
>
>
>   
>  
>
> Subject: Fw: Speedtraps this is cool
>  
>  
>  
> I knew West Covina had a couple, but did not know they had this
> many.....
>  
>  
> A WORD TO THE WISE--CHECK OUT THIS WEBSITE!!!--IF YOU DRIVE
>  
>  
>
> This is interesting. Click on what ever state you want and then it
> will show the city or towns you want to view, click on which one you
> want to view.  See if you know any of them.
>
>  Be sure to add any you know of Interest!
>  You can see them in the cities in the U.S. or Canada.  Very
> interesting.
>
>
>  SPEED TRAPS - NO JOKE...CHECK IT OUT!
>
>  I had no idea this was available to everyone.
>
>  Do you know the speedtraps in your hometown?
>
>                          
> http://www.speedtrap.org/speedtraps/stetlist.asp
>
>
>  
>  
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
>  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>  Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date:
> 8/25/2007 5:00 PM
>
>
>  __________ NOD32 2486 (20070827) Information __________
>
>  This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com

From kturk at ala.net  Tue Aug 28 05:06:41 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 06:06:41 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout
Message-ID: <00f701c7e963$848d5f00$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

All this talk of blind cockpit drills got me to thinking about the basic
design and layout of the drivers station...

Tonya and I went to New Orleans to tech a car on the way to speedweek... Ole
Blue hair is building a car called the "Stinkin Lincoln"...  JT Nesbitt is
quite a character, so when he called and asked... I just couldn't refuse....
He's a very talented writer and designer... but he's very into CHEAP.... and
confusing...  The gage layout in the car was wickedly complicated... He had
attitude gauges as well as every engine monitoring gauge in the world... all
from different cars... the dash looked like the bridge on the star ship
enterprise....  ( okay it wasn't really that bad... but I'm using it to make a
point here )

The way I set up the Berkeley after building the Camaro was to put all the
gauges directly in front of me and to limit the information the driver had to
a bare minimum.... Oil pressure, Water temp, RPM...  I had lights that give
you the ability to look at nothing but the tach...  The warning light comes on
if the oil goes below 50psi or the water gets above 220.  A shift light and We
ended up putting in a white light to tell you if there was wheel slip in
excess of 10 percent...     The real point being here everything was Directly
in front of the driver...

The Camaro has the gauges off to the right in the center of the dash and
Everytime I look at them I had to remind myself not to turn the car.... one of
the things that happens as a matter of course... is that if you look right...
you will turn right... look left and you will turn left...

The point of the blind cockpit drills is to keep you from having to physically
look at a handle to actuate it... everything should be placed so that it's
easy to find and require a minimum of movement to get to.  ( you want your arm
restraints as short as possible )

I like the idea of having different style handles which indicate different
things...

Okay guys what am I missing?

Keith

From lsr1301 at dahmurf.com  Tue Aug 28 06:12:29 2007
From: lsr1301 at dahmurf.com (DahMurf)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:12:29 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
In-Reply-To: <00b901c7e926$4d405800$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <PKEAJDAKJMECPJDGNLFLOELHDIAA.lsr1301@dahmurf.com>

>They're all scared they're going to insult you.
I'm used to hanging with the boys, it takes a lot for me to feel insulted!

>So what'll it take to get you to Bonneville?
Probably the same as everyone, time & money. We were a week away from going
a few years back & that's when Todd had his heart attack. He's all button up
now & the shop has recovered so we're starting to toss the idea around
again. We don't have anything "Bonneville worthy" right now but we do want
to go out at least once without our own bikes to learn the ropes.

>Ed Weldon

Deb #1302
Twin Jugs Racing

From td at twinjugs.com  Tue Aug 28 06:15:52 2007
From: td at twinjugs.com (Todd)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:15:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout
In-Reply-To: <00f701c7e963$848d5f00$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <00f701c7e963$848d5f00$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <20070828121338.M48796@twinjugs.com>

> The Camaro has the gauges off to the right in the center of the dash
> ...snip... 
> Okay guys what am I missing?
> Keith

HUD ;-)
Todd

From lsr1301 at dahmurf.com  Tue Aug 28 06:34:46 2007
From: lsr1301 at dahmurf.com (DahMurf)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:34:46 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
In-Reply-To: <003201c7e93b$e8985c70$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <PKEAJDAKJMECPJDGNLFLAELJDIAA.lsr1301@dahmurf.com>

Spreadsheet, database, it can be done, it can be automated... 
(no I'm not volunteering! lol been there done/doing that! :^D )

Deb

-----Original Message-----
To: 'J.D. Tone'; 'Ed Weldon'; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )


An excel spred sheet would do all that as fast as the data is entered
you are working way to hard and way too error prone.
Dave

From lsr1301 at dahmurf.com  Tue Aug 28 06:34:46 2007
From: lsr1301 at dahmurf.com (DahMurf)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:34:46 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout
In-Reply-To: <00f701c7e963$848d5f00$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <PKEAJDAKJMECPJDGNLFLCELJDIAA.lsr1301@dahmurf.com>

IMO this is a no brainer for a bike person. You want your eyes on the
road/track not looking
at gauges. I know where my stuff is at before going down the track &
visualize it before my runs. If something goes wrong I have to react NOW &
not be looking around for switches, gauges, levers. I can think of so many
reasons why you would want to know where everything is & have it within
reach & I'm on a bike not in a car!

One thing I've noticed on the bike is when I come through the traps, if I
back it down & brake too hard too fast the force is enough that I have lost
visual for a second or three. It didn't phase me because I know what I want
to be doing & when even if I can't see. (just don't throw cones in front of
me!)

In a car, here's a bunch of the reasons I can think of loosing visuals;
rain, wind storm kicking up salt/sand, something in your eye, shield fog,
eye glass fog, contact lenses lifting (been there) a spin that disorients
you or puts you in a cloud of salt/dust, a roll, a fire, engine smoke,
people respond differently to rapid acceleration / deceleration, what if you
temporarily loose visual like I have, what if you have a medical emergency.
I think doing this stuff with you eyes closed or a blind fold on is a no
brainer. Anyone that's against it is just leaving out a valuable tool that
could save your behind!

Oh yeah & what Keith said about going where you're looking, that's the
truth! One of the racers we know ran through the Maxton shut down turn doing
all the normal stuff to get through it but focused on a cone & despite
proper body/bike position, they still went towards the cone! Target fixation
is a strong force, looking where you want to go is important & looking away
from what you want to avoid is something to be practiced too!

Deb #1302
Twin Jugs Racing

>The point of the blind cockpit drills is to keep you from having to
physically
>look at a handle to actuate it... everything should be placed so that it's
>easy to find and require a minimum of movement to get to.  ( you want your
arm
>restraints as short as possible )

>I like the idea of having different style handles which indicate different
>things...

>Okay guys what am I missing?

>Keith

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Aug 28 06:52:36 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 06:52:36 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] fires @ bend in the road
In-Reply-To: <006c01c7e903$a35663b0$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16629@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

Thanks Ed!

David, still recruiting new salt racers . . .

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Weldon [mailto:23.weldon at comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 5:40 PM
To: Adin, David
Cc: land-speed at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] fires @ bend in the road

David--
I've been hanging out at the "Bend" since 1986 when the original Roads
End
Gang (Dr Flame-O Hostetter and Bonneville Bill Bernstrauch) could still
camp
at the end of the asphalt.  I missed a few years don't recall any
"guvinment" types complaining about campfires.  There was one story I
heard
but didn't witness about a Utah highway patrolman driving 25 miles west
on I
80 to investigate a very bright white light he saw on the horizon.  He
arrived at the bend, received a cordial welcome and saw the remains of a
burning VW crankcase as the answer to his white light observation.  That
was
it far as I know.
About a mile up the ranch road from the Bend there is a BLM sign and the
usual instructions for recreational use of the lands throughout the
Silver
Mountain area.  I checked it out on Monday and don't recall anything
other
than the expected rules for campfires same as most other desert areas.
So as far as campfires are concerned I'm pretty sure they are OK if
within
the bounds of common sense........Uhhhhh.......OK, maybe large amounts
of
magnesium fuel is pushing it a little.  But hey!! This is a 20 plus year
SpeedWeek tradition...........
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adin, David" <DavidAdin at mercydurango.org>
To: <land-speed at Autox.Team.Net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] fires @ bend in the road


> Does Burec bless fires at the Bend in the Road?
> Okay or not, please advise.
> David in Durango

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 09:24:13 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:24:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
References: <PKEAJDAKJMECPJDGNLFLOELHDIAA.lsr1301@dahmurf.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c7e987$82678e70$6501a8c0@S>

Debbie--
What part of the country would you and Todd be traveling from to reach
Bonneville?
How would you travel?  Bike? Car/truck/camper?
Is camping, like at the Bend in the Road, practical for you two?
If so I have some useful tips......
Ed Weldon (Los Gatos, CA)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DahMurf" <lsr1301 at dahmurf.com>
To: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )

> Probably the same as everyone, time & money. We were a week away from
going
> a few years back & that's when Todd had his heart attack. He's all button
up
> now & the shop has recovered so we're starting to toss the idea around
> again. We don't have anything "Bonneville worthy" right now but we do want
> to go out at least once without our own bikes to learn the ropes.
> Deb #1302
> Twin Jugs Racing

From saltracer at awwwsome.com  Tue Aug 28 10:43:13 2007
From: saltracer at awwwsome.com (Tom Bryant)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:43:13 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Land-speed] Timing slip question
References: <46D39C5D.7070805@charter.net>
Message-ID: <46D450A0.000004.02984@TOM>

Yes, Doug, I was a bit puzzled by the ST number,  too. Also, the humidity
readings obviously were incorrect.

Tom, Redding CA  - #216 D/FCC

-------Original Message-------

From: DougOdom
Date: 8/27/2007 8:54:31 PM
To: Landspeed List
Subject: [Land-speed] Timing slip question

OK, on my timing slips from Bonneville it shows wind 11.0 mph from the
NW,Temp: 96.3F, Humid: 4%, ST: 5.680 and DA: 7531ft.
ST 5.680 means what? I understand the others.      Doug Odom in big ditch

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif]

From MPittwood at compuserve.com  Tue Aug 28 11:17:23 2007
From: MPittwood at compuserve.com (M Pittwood)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:17:23 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Skills at the controls of an LSR
Message-ID: <200708281317_MC3-1-EBB2-51D4@compuserve.com>

List

Dr Mayf included the item 'ergonomics' in his list of the elements that can
demonstrate skills in handling an LSR vehicle.  I talk to that and
'intuitive skills'.

This element was investigated in the crash involving the outright British
LSR car with Richard Hammond at the controls but was perhaps not fully
covered in the report issued to the public under the UK freedom of
information (FoI) act.

Whilst Richard was the same size (height, arm length, torso and leg length,
etc) as the cars regular driver and could reach all of the control levers
and see all that was needed, it was his 'intuitive reaction' as a driver
that came into play when things started to develop that his training had
not, up to then, encountered.

Richard was on the seventh run of his training programme when the offside
front tyre deflated and delaminated.  When it did and he saw it fail, his
inputs reverted to those it seems of a normal car driver (his intuition
took over) - he did not react as a jet car driver would have done.

You do not find a hand lever control of throttle and parachute release in a
road or 'conventional' track car.  There is no kill all systems safety
switch under the left foot that needs the foot lifting in a road car.
(Declutching adds pressure from the left foot to a pedal).  You do however
find a foot brake for the right foot  - and it was used.  The steering into
the 'skid' was "natural" and a driver uses both hands to do this.  Note
however that as the power of the jet remained at full afterburner throttle,
their effects were nullified.  There is a shut down and release lever for
the left hand to reach, but that is a back up system that few jet car
drivers ever need or wish to use.  Right handed people are not likely to
use it as first choice it seems.

Late into the final run, as the car was leaving the runway almost
backwards, Richard recalled the words and cockpit actions of his training
and the BBC film shows him using his right hand to shut down the jet and
release the parachute.

My point is if you put a driver into a car that has the controls that they
can reach but laid out in an unfamiliar way, they will not have had enough
practice and experience to do what is correct by their training, but they
will drive as they 'normally do' even when things are not going to plan.

So as Andy Green (Thrust SSC, MGF 255 and JCB Dieselmax driver) advised me
after the crash.  Set out the cockpit (even of a jet car) and its controls
in the way that you would drive your road car.  Even down to the chute
release being like the streamlined bikes - operable without either hand
coming off the wheel.

Having done this work for yourself, do think through these control matters
when you offer your car to anyone else to drive.  [Do they drive an auto
trans and left foot brake on the road?  Are they left handed?]

Just a few pence more to add to the thread.

Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Aug 28 11:30:40 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:30:40 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Timing slip question
References: <46D39C5D.7070805@charter.net> <46D450A0.000004.02984@TOM>
Message-ID: <008601c7e999$283ea250$6401a8c0@Glens>

I believe it's station pressure.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Bryant" <saltracer at awwwsome.com>
To: "Landspeed List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>; "DougOdom" 
<dlodom at charter.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Timing slip question


> Yes, Doug, I was a bit puzzled by the ST number,  too. Also, the humidity
> readings obviously were incorrect.
>
> Tom, Redding CA  - #216 D/FCC
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: DougOdom
> Date: 8/27/2007 8:54:31 PM
> To: Landspeed List
> Subject: [Land-speed] Timing slip question
>
> OK, on my timing slips from Bonneville it shows wind 11.0 mph from the
> NW,Temp: 96.3F, Humid: 4%, ST: 5.680 and DA: 7531ft.
> ST 5.680 means what? I understand the others.      Doug Odom in big ditch
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
> faint_grain.jpg]
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 
> elephant_en.gif]
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 11:41:34 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:41:34 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Skills at the controls of an LSR
References: <200708281317_MC3-1-EBB2-51D4@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <003f01c7e99a$afe60030$6501a8c0@S>

Malcolm-- Good stuff. Thanks for the wisdom.  You comments are a keeper.
Ed Weldon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "M Pittwood" <MPittwood at compuserve.com>
To: "Land Speed List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:17 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Skills at the controls of an LSR
> Dr Mayf included the item 'ergonomics' in his list of the elements that
can
> demonstrate skills in handling an LSR vehicle.  I talk to that and
> 'intuitive skills'. ................snip...........
> Just a few pence more to add to the thread.
> Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England

From kturk at ala.net  Tue Aug 28 11:54:52 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:54:52 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Skills at the controls of an LSR
References: <200708281317_MC3-1-EBB2-51D4@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <016c01c7e99c$8a7a9d90$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

Malcolm... I concur... great comments... it's one of the reasons I hate hand 
brakes in roadsters...  simply a piss poor answer to a common problem that 
folks with real fabrication skills can avoid.

( can you tell I'm not a fan of a handle one grabs to slow a car? )
K 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Tue Aug 28 12:04:43 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:04:43 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: question
Message-ID: <00ae01c7e99d$ea29be50$6401a8c0@Glens>

Heres the answer to the ST that should be SP from the guy that programmed the
system.
Glen
----- Original Message -----
From: Rice, James
To: Glen Barrett
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: question


That was a miss-abbreviation that should have been SP, (it was corrected on
some timing slips, towards the end of the week).  SP stands for Station
Pressure, which means un-corrected barometric pressure.  Barometers measure
air pressure, but since air pressure also varies by altitude, they are
corrected to read equivalent sea level values.   Station Pressure is the
actual, un-corrected value the instrument read.  Station Pressure is needed to
calculate the density altitude that is also printed on the timing slip.

James Rice
ChronoLogic Timing
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Glen Barrett [mailto:speedtimer at beyondbb.com]
  Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:38 AM
  To: Rice, James
  Subject: question


  What is ST on the time slips, they are asking on the net.
  Glen

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Aug 28 12:08:13 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:08:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] motoring.co.za - The need for speed - it's an
	addiction!
Message-ID: <000501c7e99e$673d6590$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.motoring.co.za:80/index.php?fArticleId=4004503&fSectionId=759&fSet
Id=381

Great story about Andy Sills
dale
working on 57 chev, going to 100+ in pahrump

From jon at infodestruction.com  Tue Aug 28 12:09:52 2007
From: jon at infodestruction.com (Jon Wennerberg)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:09:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Fire suit stuff
Message-ID: <6410A8A4-521B-4481-A9FA-9D1191DC100F@infodestruction.com>

Okay, John Noonan will let us use his firesuit pants/jacket.  But my  
feet won't fit his boots, so we'll need to borrow some boots that'll  
fit my size 14 clompers.  And a helmet sock, too (I assume they're  
required for the 150 Club -- someone tell me if we don't need it).   
Gloves, too.  What else can you think of that we need to wear/need to  
borrow?

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 28 12:31:13 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:31:13 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
Message-ID: <11380018.1188325873271.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Dave we do use an excel spread sheet you can see it for yourself at the SCTA-BNI website. All 2200+ runs. This year with technically 3 timing areas, short 1 mile, 2 to the 3 short course and 2 thru the 5 long course. + 1/4 mile times and exit speeds on the long courses combined on 2 differebnt tracks on the entire spread sheet, what to eliminate becomes a problem. 

It's not that bad to look at each run of the "blue tag" cars/bikes and find the fastest speed after eliminating the 1/4's, and exits. If a # only makes 2 or 3 passes it's easy. If more just a little harder. I use Glens numbers for record runs and look back at Ed's #'s to check dates.

With so many I need to type them for the engraver. 

For El Mirage the excel file with the none used columns pinched off, goes directly to the engraver which is a change from the long ago way of doing things. An El Mirage meet take about 30 minutes including moving the record setters to the end and changing their color to red. I also sort them by club so I can pack them up easier

>
>An excel spred sheet would do all that as fast as the data is entered
>you are working way to hard and way too error prone.
>Dave

From dlodom at charter.net  Tue Aug 28 12:37:48 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:37:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Fw: question
In-Reply-To: <00ae01c7e99d$ea29be50$6401a8c0@Glens>
References: <00ae01c7e99d$ea29be50$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <46D46B7C.8060405@charter.net>

Thanks Glen, I have one timing slip with SP and three with ST. I didn't 
want to muddy up the question about that till I got the answer about ST.

Doug Odom in big ditch

Glen Barrett wrote:

>Heres the answer to the ST that should be SP from the guy that programmed the
>system.
>Glen
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Rice, James
>To: Glen Barrett
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:58 AM
>Subject: RE: question
>
>
>That was a miss-abbreviation that should have been SP, (it was corrected on
>some timing slips, towards the end of the week).  SP stands for Station
>Pressure, which means un-corrected barometric pressure.  Barometers measure
>air pressure, but since air pressure also varies by altitude, they are
>corrected to read equivalent sea level values.   Station Pressure is the
>actual, un-corrected value the instrument read.  Station Pressure is needed to
>calculate the density altitude that is also printed on the timing slip.
>
>James Rice
>ChronoLogic Timing

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Tue Aug 28 12:37:57 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:37:57 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )
In-Reply-To: <11380018.1188325873271.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <003301c7e9a2$8deafd70$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Excell can do all that last I looked though may be wrong the standard
dislaimer..LOL..
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: James Tone [mailto:gmc6power at earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:31 PM
To: ddahlgren at snet.net; 'Ed Weldon'; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] HEY GUYS ( and gals? )


Dave we do use an excel spread sheet you can see it for yourself at the
SCTA-BNI website. All 2200+ runs. This year with technically 3 timing
areas, short 1 mile, 2 to the 3 short course and 2 thru the 5 long
course. + 1/4 mile times and exit speeds on the long courses combined on
2 differebnt tracks on the entire spread sheet, what to eliminate
becomes a problem.

It's not that bad to look at each run of the "blue tag" cars/bikes and
find the fastest speed after eliminating the 1/4's, and exits. If a #
only makes 2 or 3 passes it's easy. If more just a little harder. I use
Glens numbers for record runs and look back at Ed's #'s to check dates.

With so many I need to type them for the engraver.

For El Mirage the excel file with the none used columns pinched off,
goes directly to the engraver which is a change from the long ago way of
doing things. An El Mirage meet take about 30 minutes including moving
the record setters to the end and changing their color to red. I also
sort them by club so I can pack them up easier

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date:
8/25/2007 5:00 PM

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Tue Aug 28 14:18:01 2007
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:18:01 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Was Speedweek Faster or Slower?
In-Reply-To: <003301c7e9a2$8deafd70$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20900AA43@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Speedweek participants!, was the new format, mixing of long and short
runs over two courses vs. the dedicated courses of the past, better or
worse?

<SOAPBOX=ON>

Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Aug 28 14:20:35 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:20:35 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout
Message-ID: <W3228110654137591188332435@webmail13>

You forgot to confess about the duct tape arrow you put on theinside of the windshield at SW ;-) It pointed right and said"Turn Out" How come you didn't use a turn signal flashing lite ?;-))
Ed



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Keith Turk [mailto:kturk at ala.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 04:06 AM
>To: land-speed at autox.team.net
>Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout
>
>All this talk of blind cockpit drills got me to thinking about the basic
>design and layout of the drivers station...
>
>Tonya and I went to New Orleans to tech a car on the way to speedweek... Ole
>Blue hair is building a car called the "Stinkin Lincoln"... JT Nesbitt is
>quite a character, so when he called and asked... I just couldn't refuse....
>He's a very talented writer and designer... but he's very into CHEAP.... and
>confusing... The gage layout in the car was wickedly complicated... He had
>attitude gauges as well as every engine monitoring gauge in the world... all
>from different cars... the dash looked like the bridge on the star ship
>enterprise.... ( okay it wasn't really that bad... but I'm using it to make a
>point here )
>
>The way I set up the Berkeley after building the Camaro was to put all the
>gauges directly in front of me and to limit the information the driver had to
>a bare minimum.... Oil pressure, Water temp, RPM... I had lights that give
>you the ability to look at nothing but the tach... The warning light comes on
>if the oil goes below 50psi or the water gets above 220. A shift light and We
>ended up putting in a white light to tell you if there was wheel slip in
>excess of 10 percent... The real point being here everything was Directly
>in front of the driver...
>
>The Camaro has the gauges off to the right in the center of the dash and
>Everytime I look at them I had to remind myself not to turn the car.... one of
>the things that happens as a matter of course... is that if you look right...
>you will turn right... look left and you will turn left...
>
>The point of the blind cockpit drills is to keep you from having to physically
>look at a handle to actuate it... everything should be placed so that it's
>easy to find and require a minimum of movement to get to. ( you want your arm
>restraints as short as possible )
>
>I like the idea of having different style handles which indicate different
>things...
>
>Okay guys what am I missing?
>
>Keith

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Tue Aug 28 14:21:27 2007
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:21:27 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Fire suit stuff
In-Reply-To: <6410A8A4-521B-4481-A9FA-9D1191DC100F@infodestruction.com>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20900AA4A@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Neck brace?


Gloves, too.  What else can you think of that we need to wear/need to
borrow?

                 Jon Wennerberg
Seldom Seen Slim Land Speed Racing
              Marquette, Michigan
              (that's 'way up north)
___

From Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com  Tue Aug 28 14:40:14 2007
From: Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com (Clay, Dale)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:40:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout
In-Reply-To: <W3228110654137591188332435@webmail13>
References: <W3228110654137591188332435@webmail13>
Message-ID: <AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA122@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>

LOL  Actually that's a pretty good idea.  When I was racing carts I had
digital tach & CHT gauges in the steering wheel.  On the bottom of one I
had a grid that I put grease pencil race numbers in of the grid with
mine open (rolling starts like sprint cars), the other had the message
"THINK!"

Dale C.  :)

Subject: Re: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout

You forgot to confess about the duct tape arrow you put on theinside of
the windshield at SW ;-) It pointed right and said"Turn Out" How come
you didn't use a turn signal flashing lite ?;-))
Ed


The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient or employees of MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited.   If
you received this in error, pleasecontact the sender by email and delete the
material from any computer.

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Tue Aug 28 15:00:39 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:00:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Was Speedweek Faster or Slower?
References: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB20900AA43@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c7e9b6$7da0fa50$6400a8c0@Dale>

we only waited 4-5hrs vs 8hrs so I thought it was great, then as the week 
went along and people left the wait time limit got shorter
dale
just a crew member from pahrump
working on new old lathe


Subject: [Land-speed] Was Speedweek Faster or Slower?


> Speedweek participants!, was the new format, mixing of long and short
> runs over two courses vs. the dedicated courses of the past, better or
> worse?
>
> <SOAPBOX=ON>
>
> Mike Meierle
> #847 F/P/MP
> SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
> ECTA Record Holder

From DavidAdin at mercydurango.org  Tue Aug 28 15:07:30 2007
From: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org (Adin, David)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:07:30 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout
In-Reply-To: <AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA122@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>
Message-ID: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16636@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>

I've seen signs painted in race cars . . .

<---Faster	Slower--->

on the hump by the "foot feed" . . . .

David in Durango

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+davidadin=mercydurango.org at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Clay, Dale
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:40 PM
To: ed at vetteracing.com; Keith Turk; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout

LOL  Actually that's a pretty good idea.  When I was racing carts I had
digital tach & CHT gauges in the steering wheel.  On the bottom of one I
had a grid that I put grease pencil race numbers in of the grid with
mine open (rolling starts like sprint cars), the other had the message
"THINK!"

Dale C.  :)

Subject: Re: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout

You forgot to confess about the duct tape arrow you put on theinside of
the windshield at SW ;-) It pointed right and said"Turn Out" How come
you didn't use a turn signal flashing lite ?;-))
Ed


The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient or employees of MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited.
If
you received this in error, pleasecontact the sender by email and delete
the
material from any computer.
_______________________________________________
davidadin at mercydurango.org

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsr1301 at dahmurf.com  Tue Aug 28 15:23:36 2007
From: lsr1301 at dahmurf.com (DahMurf)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:23:36 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout
In-Reply-To: <DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16636@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
References: <AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA122@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>
	<DED4A4C1DC044B438FDBC428A339D2D505D16636@cddgomsx01.durango-co.catholichealth.net>
Message-ID: <20070828211521.M30787@dahmurf.com>

We have checklists taped to our tanks on our bikes. We don't really have a 
pit crew so it's usually only the pilot and possibly one crew member at the 
line. Arm this, flip that switch, whatever. You can bet when I run at 
Bonneville I'll have it taped on there which way to turn & how many miles to 
run! lol! If you try to remember too much you get bogged down in details you 
don't need on your mind while you're trying to run. All I have to remember 
is to check the list & once that's done it's out of my head. There's nothing 
worse then hitting that button to shift only to find out you didn't arm the 
shifter! I've even gone as far as to tape off shift points on the speedo of 
a bike that had no tach. Whatever works!

We've told a lot of racers to do it & some are "too proud" to do it. And yet 
they botch run after run because they forgot this or that!

Check lists are good! :^D

Debbie #1302
Twin Jugs Racing

From advo at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 15:57:44 2007
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:57:44 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
In-Reply-To: <20070828211521.M30787@dahmurf.com>
Message-ID: <20070828215806.7CBF8187A20@autox.team.net>

While we're on the general topic, does anyone have a good source for general
guidelines on cockpit design? I mean like measurements from seat to
firewall, seat back angles, distance from shoulder to steering wheel.....
I'm designing a vehicle from the ground up which will be used for driving
twisty roads. It will use the turbocharged flathead six XO motor we raced on
the salt last year (land speed content).

Thanks
Greg
http://salt2salt.com
http://www.biophiz.com/turbostude/Tribaker.htm
http://turbostude.com

From Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com  Tue Aug 28 16:04:48 2007
From: Dale.Clay at mdhelicopters.com (Clay, Dale)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:04:48 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
In-Reply-To: <20070828215806.7CBF8187A20@autox.team.net>
References: <20070828211521.M30787@dahmurf.com>
	<20070828215806.7CBF8187A20@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <AC71AB6270402E4D868235BF4ACACF31017EA126@galileo.internal.mdhelicopters.com>

Freiburger would appreciate your "dare to be different" approach!

Dale C.

Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT

I'm designing a vehicle from the ground up which will be used for
driving
twisty roads. It will use the turbocharged flathead six XO motor we
raced on
the salt last year (land speed content).

Thanks
Greg

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient or employees of MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited.   If
you received this in error, pleasecontact the sender by email and delete the
material from any computer.

From advo at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 18:37:52 2007
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:37:52 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
In-Reply-To: <009501c7e9ce$d6bddb90$6501a8c0@S>
Message-ID: <20070829003815.AA074187B0D@autox.team.net>

Thanks Ed,
I have built a  movable elevated "stage" jig to develop the chassis on.  I
mocked up the car as you suggested.  The amount of room for the footwells,
the amount of knee-bend and elbow bend that may be appropriate will be a
little hard to know until I try to drive it.  I am using measurements from a
Mini Cooper S as a sort of guideline, since I know that I can live with
that, however I will be lower to the ground and more recumbent in the
"Tribaker". Right now, I'm grappling with extending the  wheelbase to
accommodate me, my LP tanks and a CG height of 19". 
Best to all
We'll be back on the Salt next August!
Greg Meyers


Greg-- 
There are no "right" dimensions...........

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 19:01:19 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:01:19 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
Message-ID: <009c01c7e9d8$1e22e6c0$6501a8c0@S>

Forwarded to list in pieces to pass filters
EW
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "Greg Meyers" <advo at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT


> Greg-- 
> There are no "right" dimensions.  Every car situation is different, every
> driver is different.  In general give yourself as much space to start as
you
> can afford.  You can always adjust the seat inward.  Make sure you have
the
> rule book for whatever the applicable racing organization in front of you.
> Much of the layout will depend on safety considerations like protecting
> various parts of your bod.  This gets a lot of "ink" in LSR forums.
> Remember you have to be able to see and/or reach all the controls and
> instruments.  Oh yeah, and the course ahead.
>
> If you're any good at drawing to scale get yourself a positionable human
> figure drawing template.  Google search "Alvin TD1735BG Human Figure" for
> sources of one example.  Cost is less than $10.00.  Then you can draw the
> rough dimensions of the car components like seat, steering wheel and
pedals
> in side view profile in a scale drawing.  These figure templates range
> around 1/8 or 1/10 scale an usually represent the statistical average
human
> figure dimensions.
>
> OK, you say your driver in not that average size?  Go find a copier
(Kinkos)
> to scale the pieces up or down.  Cut them out, paste them to pieces of
this
> cardboard (like cereal boxes) put them together with pins at the joints
and
> set them down on the drawing.
> While at kinkos make some copies of your scale drawings of car components
> and glue them to cardboard shapes.  That way you can move them around also
> on the drawing of the car frame.

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Meyers" <advo at comcast.net>
> To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:57 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
>
>
> > While we're on the general topic, does anyone have a good source for
> general
> > guidelines on cockpit design? I mean like measurements from seat to
> > firewall, seat back angles, distance from shoulder to steering
wheel.....
> > I'm designing a vehicle from the ground up which will be used for
driving
> > twisty roads. It will use the turbocharged flathead six XO motor we
raced
> on
> > the salt last year (land speed content).
> > Thanks
> > Greg

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 19:03:25 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:03:25 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
Message-ID: <00a401c7e9d8$69913440$6501a8c0@S>

Forwarded to list in pieces to pass filters -- #2
EW
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
To: "Greg Meyers" <advo at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT


> Greg-- Piece#2
> Now, you say you can't draw worth a darn.  Do it full size on the garage
> floor or out on the patio.  This is how wooden boats get built using a
small
> scale drawing or sometimes just a table of offsets.  They call it
"lofting"
> in that world.
> Use whatever cheap materials are available like large corrugated appliance
> box panels, old plywood to rough out a seat, etc.  I even used 6" radius
> 1-3/4 exhaust u-bends and 1-1/2" electrical conduit to mock up a roll
cage.
> You can rough out a pretty sturdy cockpit and firewall shape from 3/4"
> electrical conduit.   Get all possible drivers to test fit this layout.
>
> Here's a tip:  Look for an old out of date belt and shoulder harness setup
> to use when your construction gets far enough along to test the fit of the
> driver.  That way you can wait until the last month or so before the first
> tech inspection to buy a fresh belt set.
>
> What I would not do is try to design it entirely on paper or a computer
CAD
> system and then just go start cutting metal or building molds.  It takes
> years of experience for a designer to be able to layout a driving position
> in a vehicle properly in addition to the CAD/drawing skills and
exceptional
> spatial visualization talents needed to solve the myriad of 3 dimensional
> fit problems.  In all probability you don't have it.
> Ed Weldon,  Los Gatos, CA
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Meyers" <advo at comcast.net>
> To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:57 PM
> Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT

From joetimney at dol.net  Tue Aug 28 20:43:27 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:43:27 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
In-Reply-To: <20070828215806.7CBF8187A20@autox.team.net>
References: <20070828215806.7CBF8187A20@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <46D4DD4F.8000802@dol.net>

Greg,
My suggestion is to never have your left hand off the wheel. All 
non-steering wheel controls should be done with your right hand. In a 
bad situation, you will not have to trade hands. I build cars for a 
living and I will not deviate from this policy.
The more you are reclined, the less you can feel the change in side ways 
angle to the track if you get out of shape...the recline number is 20 %.
I prefer a tight shoulder width, helps if the car is out of shape.
Slightly bend arms...better strength to control the wheel...never 
straight arms.
Cockpit length is about 60 inches approx.

Hope this helps.
joe


Greg Meyers wrote:
> While we're on the general topic, does anyone have a good source for general
> guidelines on cockpit design? I mean like measurements from seat to
> firewall, seat back angles, distance from shoulder to steering wheel.....
> I'm designing a vehicle from the ground up which will be used for driving
> twisty roads. It will use the turbocharged flathead six XO motor we raced on
> the salt last year (land speed content).
> 
> Thanks
> Greg

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Aug 28 19:56:52 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:56:52 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
In-Reply-To: <46D4DD4F.8000802@dol.net>
References: <20070828215806.7CBF8187A20@autox.team.net>
	<46D4DD4F.8000802@dol.net>
Message-ID: <46D4D264.9050200@mayfco.com>

Yp, that's the way the sunbeam is constructed. 20 degree layback on the 
seat, all controls at the right hand, left always on the wheel.  I 
didn't know why, so I am glad Joe has told us me and you the reasons.  
Thanks Joe!

mayf
Joe Timney wrote:

>Greg,
>My suggestion is to never have your left hand off the wheel. All 
>non-steering wheel controls should be done with your right hand. In a 
>bad situation, you will not have to trade hands. I build cars for a 
>living and I will not deviate from this policy.
>The more you are reclined, the less you can feel the change in side ways 
>angle to the track if you get out of shape...the recline number is 20 %.
>I prefer a tight shoulder width, helps if the car is out of shape.
>Slightly bend arms...better strength to control the wheel...never 
>straight arms.
>Cockpit length is about 60 inches approx.
>
>Hope this helps.
>joe
>
>
>Greg Meyers wrote:
>  
>
>>While we're on the general topic, does anyone have a good source for general
>>guidelines on cockpit design? I mean like measurements from seat to
>>firewall, seat back angles, distance from shoulder to steering wheel.....
>>I'm designing a vehicle from the ground up which will be used for driving
>>twisty roads. It will use the turbocharged flathead six XO motor we raced on
>>the salt last year (land speed content).
>>
>>Thanks
>>Greg
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From advo at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 19:59:07 2007
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:59:07 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
In-Reply-To: <46D4DD4F.8000802@dol.net>
Message-ID: <20070829015929.85D841879E2@autox.team.net>

Great advice.  I was wondering about how reclining might effect control.
The tight shoulder width won't be a problem!
Thanks
Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+advo=comcast.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+advo=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe
Timney
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:43 PM
To: List
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT

Greg,
My suggestion is to never have your left hand off the wheel. All 
non-steering wheel controls should be done with your right hand. In a 
bad situation, you will not have to trade hands. I build cars for a 
living and I will not deviate from this policy.
The more you are reclined, the less you can feel the change in side ways 
angle to the track if you get out of shape...the recline number is 20 %.
I prefer a tight shoulder width, helps if the car is out of shape.
Slightly bend arms...better strength to control the wheel...never 
straight arms.
Cockpit length is about 60 inches approx.

Hope this helps.
joe


Greg Meyers wrote:
> While we're on the general topic, does anyone have a good source for
general
> guidelines on cockpit design? I mean like measurements from seat to
> firewall, seat back angles, distance from shoulder to steering wheel.....
> I'm designing a vehicle from the ground up which will be used for driving
> twisty roads. It will use the turbocharged flathead six XO motor we raced
on
> the salt last year (land speed content).
> 
> Thanks
> Greg
Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 20:08:38 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:08:38 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
References: <20070828215806.7CBF8187A20@autox.team.net>
	<46D4DD4F.8000802@dol.net>
Message-ID: <00b301c7e9e1$87e4f130$6501a8c0@S>

Joe--Thanks from me too.  Glad you were able to comment on this question.
Ed Weldon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Timney" <joetimney at dol.net>
To: "List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT


> Greg,
> My suggestion is to never have your left hand off the wheel. ....
> ...the recline number is 20 %.
> I prefer a tight shoulder width, helps if the car is out of shape.
> Slightly bend arms...better strength to control the wheel...never 
> straight arms.
> Cockpit length is about 60 inches approx. .........
> joe

From ed at vetteracing.com  Tue Aug 28 20:45:29 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 02:45:29 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
Message-ID: <W552812514459711188355529@webmail3>

I would make sure I was wearing my firesuit - or at least a simulation- when
laying out the cockpit. I had my seating and controlsperfect.... until I put
on the suit, belted in and then discovered Icould not reach one of the fire
bottle controls..... Opps! Had to move it.....
Ed V

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ed Weldon [mailto:23.weldon at comcast.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 06:03 PM
>To: land-speed at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
>
>Forwarded to list in pieces to pass filters -- #2
>EW
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ed Weldon" <23.weldon at comcast.net>
>To: "Greg Meyers" <advo at comcast.net>; <land-speed at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:54 PM
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
>
>
>> Greg-- Piece#2
>> Now, you say you can't draw worth a darn. Do it full size on the garage
>> floor or out on the patio. This is how wooden boats get built using a
>small
>> scale drawing or sometimes just a table of offsets. They call it
>"lofting"
>> in that world.
>> Use whatever cheap materials are available like large corrugated appliance
>> box panels, old plywood to rough out a seat, etc. I even used 6" radius
>> 1-3/4 exhaust u-bends and 1-1/2" electrical conduit to mock up a roll
>cage.
>> You can rough out a pretty sturdy cockpit and firewall shape from 3/4"
>> electrical conduit. Get all possible drivers to test fit this layout.
>>
>> Here's a tip: Look for an old out of date belt and shoulder harness setup
>> to use when your construction gets far enough along to test the fit of the
>> driver. That way you can wait until the last month or so before the first
>> tech inspection to buy a fresh belt set.
>>
>> What I would not do is try to design it entirely on paper or a computer
>CAD
>> system and then just go start cutting metal or building molds. It takes
>> years of experience for a designer to be able to layout a driving position
>> in a vehicle properly in addition to the CAD/drawing skills and
>exceptional
>> spatial visualization talents needed to solve the myriad of 3 dimensional
>> fit problems. In all probability you don't have it.
>> Ed Weldon, Los Gatos, CA

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 20:50:42 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:50:42 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
Message-ID: <002b01c7e9e7$641da4d0$563c2544@john>

My streamliner has a lever just below the steering wheel that the high speed 
chute , the fuel shut off and the engine electrical cut off passes through . 
Pulling the lever works all three or you can pull them independantly . For 
normal shut down or trouble the driver only needs to move his hand 6 inches 
and pull one knob . 

From jon.the.wise at gmail.com  Wed Aug 29 02:12:28 2007
From: jon.the.wise at gmail.com (Jon Bishop)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 01:12:28 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
In-Reply-To: <20070829003815.AA074187B0D@autox.team.net>
References: <20070829003815.AA074187B0D@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <1DA6C777-7532-4929-B3D4-83D861BD729B@gmail.com>

On Aug 28, 2007, at 5:37 PM, Greg Meyers wrote:

> Thanks Ed,
> I have built a  movable elevated "stage" jig to develop the chassis  
> on.  I
> mocked up the car as you suggested.  The amount of room for the  
> footwells,
> the amount of knee-bend and elbow bend that may be appropriate will  
> be a
> little hard to know until I try to drive it.  I am using  
> measurements from a
> Mini Cooper S as a sort of guideline, since I know that I can live  
> with
> that, however I will be lower to the ground and more recumbent in the
> "Tribaker". Right now, I'm grappling with extending the  wheelbase to
> accommodate me, my LP tanks and a CG height of 19".
> Best to all
> We'll be back on the Salt next August!
> Greg Meyers
>
>
> Greg--
> There are no "right" dimensions...........


If you're looking to make it a rallier, you should check out the  
Subaru WRX and Mitsubishi Lancer EVO for dimensions, they're both  
very dominant rally cars that have had decades of development and  
refining.

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Aug 29 08:56:59 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 07:56:59 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Mod Sports top chopping
Message-ID: <C0633D5610A3442FA15E8F516A7877D1@LMS>

Thismay have been discussed some in the past

4.i page 38         "Without changing the original shape top or bottom"

Just What does this mean; you need to rake the front and rear post fore and
aft and expand the surface area of the top so that it is not necessary to
slant or tilt  the post toward the center of the car?

 Or that you leave the roof intact and make the nesessary adjustments with the
A & B pilliars toward the centerline and rake the posts fore and aft?.

 Is there any limit on how much you can take out?

How much windshield do you need to leave?
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 10:16:03 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:16:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Mod Sports top chopping
Message-ID: <27196202.1188404164059.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

This my opinion only and it has been used properly in the vintage class top chopping. If done properly, top chopping "normally takes 2 tops from the original vehicle. If you bring the door post down the size of your chop the front and rear do not line up unless you are working with a straight up top. (20's and early 30's)

This is where the extra top comes in; you recut the top across the center in both directions and line up the front and rear "posts" This means adding 2 or 3 " across the top length and width. Now everything is in it's proper alignment. You also need to add a piece to the door top. The top on a properly choped top is actually larger than the original top.

In comp coupe and mod sports it may be different and you need to discuss this with the committee chairmen discussing what I have said. Even with this style of chop a higher windshield opening was and is allowed. My cars I have lookd at during inspection appear to have a slant on their windshields which is greater than stock.  Good Luck

>
>Thismay have been discussed some in the past
>
>4.i page 38         "Without changing the original shape top or bottom"
>
>Just What does this mean; you need to rake the front and rear post fore and
>aft and expand the surface area of the top so that it is not necessary to
>slant or tilt  the post toward the center of the car?
>
> Or that you leave the roof intact and make the nesessary adjustments with the
>A & B pilliars toward the centerline and rake the posts fore and aft?.
>
> Is there any limit on how much you can take out?
>
>How much windshield do you need to leave?
>      Sparky
>AA/_ L  2211
>_______________________________________________
>gmc6power at earthlink.net
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Aug 29 12:24:49 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:24:49 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Mod Sports top chopping
In-Reply-To: <27196202.1188404164059.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <27196202.1188404164059.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <07C8CF37AEF9418FBD4F8C1EAB1AE800@LMS>

Thanks JD I sorta asumed that was what you need to do but is there any limit 
on how narrow you can make the vertical height---I remember the old hod rod 
mags saying a cop expected a dollar bill vert height--no mention I can find 
in rules---I understand the horiz. width will be greater...thanks again  I 
will contact Miller
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Tone" <gmc6power at earthlink.net>
To: "Sparky" <sparky.2211 at cox.net>; "AA List" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Mod Sports top chopping

From jgmagoo at comcast.net  Wed Aug 29 13:28:11 2007
From: jgmagoo at comcast.net (jgmagoo at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:28:11 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>

I read the post about being able to release the chute without taking either hand off the steering wheel. This is interesting and makes sense. 

I am building an enclosed cockpit lakester. 

My question is, what is a super-reliable, fool-proof system for releasing the chute using a button/ switch on the steering wheel?  I assume it would be something of an electrical or air-actuated release.  What I guess I'm asking is what is the safest and most reliable method of accomplishing this. A lever and cable release, which I see used by many, seems very reliable and fool-proof, but the hands-on-the-wheel idea seems to have merit also.  Decisions, decisions!

Thanks. 

Jim

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 14:13:16 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:13:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <406400.72081.qm@web30715.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Jim,
   
  I thought of electrical, using a button on the steering wheel, but I decided I didn't want to lose my chute too if I already had a blown engine or something and had killed the power, or maybe had an electrical short.  I just thought I'd feel better with a direct link to the chute.  I then thought of a foot release, in my case,using the parking brake pedal, but I nixed that out of choice. 
   
  I designed a lever release which is mounted on the left front cage downtube.  The lever is "L"-shaped and the tip of it's handle is three inches from the outside rim of my steering wheel.  That leaves me enough room to turn the steering wheel as much as I want to with my hands fully in place, but keeps the release within finger-tip distance. 
   
  I "pull" the chute without taking my hands off the wheel.  I just extend the two outside fingers on my left hand, catch the lever, and move it down. I've used it quite a few times and really like it.  It's particularly nice to have both hands steady on the wheel when pulling the chute in a crosswind.
   
  If you're interested, send me an email off-line and I'll send you a couple of photos.
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas
   
  

jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:
  I read the post about being able to release the chute without taking either hand off the steering wheel. This is interesting and makes sense. 

I am building an enclosed cockpit lakester. 

My question is, what is a super-reliable, fool-proof system for releasing the chute using a button/ switch on the steering wheel? I assume it would be something of an electrical or air-actuated release. What I guess I'm asking is what is the safest and most reliable method of accomplishing this. A lever and cable release, which I see used by many, seems very reliable and fool-proof, but the hands-on-the-wheel idea seems to have merit also. Decisions, decisions!

Thanks. 

Jim
       
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 

From sparky.2211 at cox.net  Wed Aug 29 15:21:37 2007
From: sparky.2211 at cox.net (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:21:37 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Chute relelease
In-Reply-To: <082820070417.26885.46D3A1C0000710640000690522092299270101090E030906@comcast.net>
References: <082820070417.26885.46D3A1C0000710640000690522092299270101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <9358047F19A24F42B1E4746C35D0B32D@LMS>

JG, I have changed mine to a solenoid release on the wheel---I can release 
my HI speed chute by slightly repositin my thump---It saved my bacon during 
a sever gust at the 4.5 at about 260 chute was out before I crossed the 
black line and was able to steer back on the coarse---the HD sokenoid I got 
from speedway.
      Sparky
AA/_ L  2211
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>
To: <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: "land-speed-digest" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Blindfold>From>Jim McNaul

From boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 29 20:44:15 2007
From: boogiewoogie12 at hotmail.com (Doug Anderson)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:44:15 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] Latham Axial Flow Superchargers
Message-ID: <BAY135-W98C918CD7BA438BD31E16D9CD0@phx.gbl>

Got a buddy, Tom ,..
 and Tom is buildin' a '28 Chrysler two door
street-driven Hot Rod.  Note I did not
use that cursed word 'streetrod' .  Tom also
has an old eastern dragrace 392 that resided in a '32 Nash roadster back in
the
day.  He got the engine complete from the
drainplug, to the Mallory dual point and 440 wires, up to,   to the Latham
Axial Flow Supercharger with
4 sidedrafts.  Now how Kool is that ?



He's asked me if I knew anyone who's taken one apart.  Now he's a pretty darn
sharp mechanic, so for
him to ask me, well that tells me he really can't get it apart.  He does not
want to hurt the thing so he
wisely stopped to learn more about it.



BTW: the Chizler will be controlled with a vintage torqueflyte of
the 'typewriter' shifter variety and will have NO fenners as Pennsylvania
came
out of the dark ages and made them 'optional' with Pa. er. 'streetrod'
plates  grrrrrrrr theres that word again



Anyway, Anyone on the list have any experience, manuals, or
spare parts to help him out ?  I will
forward any & all info to him



Thanks in advance,
You Otto know something about it shouldn't you ?   ;- )



  cheers, "Dirt Track Doug" in So. New York,

  -'point man' in the never-ending search for Hot Blues,
                        Cold Beer,  Fast Cars,  an' Warm Willin' Wimin'

_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 29 22:00:14 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:00:14 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Need For Speed
Message-ID: <000501c7eaba$46a36b00$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.tylerpaper.com:80/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070829/SPORTS01/708
290307

I wish I was at the bub meet to watch this 71 year young  guy run
dale
hot and watching the full moon in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 29 22:05:26 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:05:26 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Newswise Science News | Student Hopes to Break Human
 Land Speed Record
Message-ID: <000501c7eaba$ff3ea260$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.newswise.com:80/articles/view/532888/

human power record to be set in Nevada, I was on this road this spring it is
in great shape
dale
dark in pahrump, more work on 57 chev tomorrow

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 29 22:10:13 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:10:13 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] That's Racin' | 08/29/2007 | Saluting the March Meet:
 Fifty years of racing exhibit opens at Wally Parks museum
Message-ID: <000501c7eabb$aa864a60$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.thatsracin.com:80/119/story/6202.html

nice history of the drags at Bakersfield, I was there.
dale
darker and going to bed in pahrump

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 29 22:14:39 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:14:39 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Romance Novel: Ultimate Aero TT to Break Veyrons Speed
	Record
Message-ID: <000501c7eabc$49e6c440$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://romance-novelkeseoite.blogspot.com:80/2007/08/ultimate-aero-tt-to-brea
k-veyrons-speed.html

does anyone know if this car set the record
dale
inquiring minds would like to know

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Wed Aug 29 22:19:18 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:19:18 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] D&D Exhaust | The Assalt Weapon Needs a D&D
	Performance Pipe
Message-ID: <000501c7eabc$f00ca420$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.danddexhaust.com/news/2007/08/the_assalt_weap.htm

more bikes headed to bub , its going to be a good meet
dale
wish I was going in pahrump

From kturk at ala.net  Thu Aug 30 03:40:35 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:40:35 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
References: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <006b01c7eae9$d289bc30$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

I've kind of sat back on this one... but Sorry guys... I drive with my left 
hand and use my right hand to do all kinds of things....  oh like say SHIFT? 
The first part of the course is when I do the most driving and my right hand 
is rowing a shifter most the time as the car is accelerating thru the 
gears...  Normally on the big end of the course everything is settled down 
and I put both hands on the wheel.... but I'm very comfortable reaching for 
the chute cable with my right hand.  I even put my hand on the chute handle 
for the last 1/2 mile or so...

Currently we even have the Nitrous button on the shifter... ( I don't agree 
with this...it's just what we have. )  Hard to put your hand on the chute 
when it's actuating a Nitrous button by the way... and it delays the amount 
of time you have in places like Maxton or El Mirage.

Anyway...  The advantage of a Cable that your pulling on is that it's almost 
always effective...

Keith 

From joetimney at dol.net  Thu Aug 30 06:30:51 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:30:51 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
In-Reply-To: <006b01c7eae9$d289bc30$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
References: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<006b01c7eae9$d289bc30$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
Message-ID: <46D6B87B.2030708@dol.net>

I have to agree with Keith on this one. (No, we don't always agree) LOL 
Electrical release mechanisms are ok but you need an override system. As 
a tech inspector at Maxton & Bonneville, I would not sign off on a 
non-cable system without a cable backup. Maxton is no place to be late 
with the chute...or with a wrong size chute( it hurts when you land on 
the drivers rocker panel).

I like to have a master kill switch on the wheel so I can use my left 
thumb to hit it down as I cross the finish line while clutching the car. 
My right hand has already pulled the chute and is going for the shifter.

Just things I have learned the hard & expensive way,
joe

Keith Turk wrote:
> I've kind of sat back on this one... but Sorry guys... I drive with my left 
> hand and use my right hand to do all kinds of things....  oh like say SHIFT? 
> The first part of the course is when I do the most driving and my right hand 
> is rowing a shifter most the time as the car is accelerating thru the 
> gears...  Normally on the big end of the course everything is settled down 
> and I put both hands on the wheel.... but I'm very comfortable reaching for 
> the chute cable with my right hand.  I even put my hand on the chute handle 
> for the last 1/2 mile or so...
> 
> Currently we even have the Nitrous button on the shifter... ( I don't agree 
> with this...it's just what we have. )  Hard to put your hand on the chute 
> when it's actuating a Nitrous button by the way... and it delays the amount 
> of time you have in places like Maxton or El Mirage.
> 
> Anyway...  The advantage of a Cable that your pulling on is that it's almost 
> always effective...
> 
> Keith 
> _______________________________________________

From rjdenton479 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 30 05:48:56 2007
From: rjdenton479 at gmail.com (Robert J. Denton)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:48:56 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
In-Reply-To: <46D6B87B.2030708@dol.net>
References: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<006b01c7eae9$d289bc30$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46D6B87B.2030708@dol.net>
Message-ID: <45ac72e90708300448h532ab2b1uc3c088f3101dab84@mail.gmail.com>

I'm more impressed with the advocacy of driving 200+MPH with one hand
on the wheel, especially on the salt. Sounds sensible to me.

On 8/30/07, Joe Timney <joetimney at dol.net> wrote:
> I have to agree with Keith on this one. (No, we don't always agree) LOL
> Electrical release mechanisms are ok but you need an override system. As
> a tech inspector at Maxton & Bonneville, I would not sign off on a
> non-cable system without a cable backup. Maxton is no place to be late
> with the chute...or with a wrong size chute( it hurts when you land on
> the drivers rocker panel).
>
> I like to have a master kill switch on the wheel so I can use my left
> thumb to hit it down as I cross the finish line while clutching the car.
> My right hand has already pulled the chute and is going for the shifter.
>
> Just things I have learned the hard & expensive way,
> joe
>
> Keith Turk wrote:
> > I've kind of sat back on this one... but Sorry guys... I drive with my left
> > hand and use my right hand to do all kinds of things....  oh like say SHIFT?
> > The first part of the course is when I do the most driving and my right hand
> > is rowing a shifter most the time as the car is accelerating thru the
> > gears...  Normally on the big end of the course everything is settled down
> > and I put both hands on the wheel.... but I'm very comfortable reaching for
> > the chute cable with my right hand.  I even put my hand on the chute handle
> > for the last 1/2 mile or so...
> >
> > Currently we even have the Nitrous button on the shifter... ( I don't agree
> > with this...it's just what we have. )  Hard to put your hand on the chute
> > when it's actuating a Nitrous button by the way... and it delays the amount
> > of time you have in places like Maxton or El Mirage.
> >
> > Anyway...  The advantage of a Cable that your pulling on is that it's almost
> > always effective...
> >
> > Keith

From kturk at ala.net  Thu Aug 30 06:33:48 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:33:48 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
References: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net><006b01c7eae9$d289bc30$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p><46D6B87B.2030708@dol.net>
	<45ac72e90708300448h532ab2b1uc3c088f3101dab84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008501c7eb02$049fec40$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

"  I'm more impressed with the advocacy of driving 200+MPH with one hand
> on the wheel, especially on the salt. Sounds sensible to me."

Hmmm done it at least 5 times I can prove.... LOL

K

From dwarner230 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 07:18:29 2007
From: dwarner230 at yahoo.com (dan warner)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:18:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <826136.90588.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

You will also need a redundent, cable, release in the case of failure of the primary steering wheel release.
   
  DW

jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:
  I read the post about being able to release the chute without taking either hand off the steering wheel. This is interesting and makes sense. 

I am building an enclosed cockpit lakester. 

My question is, what is a super-reliable, fool-proof system for releasing the chute using a button/ switch on the steering wheel? I assume it would be something of an electrical or air-actuated release. What I guess I'm asking is what is the safest and most reliable method of accomplishing this. A lever and cable release, which I see used by many, seems very reliable and fool-proof, but the hands-on-the-wheel idea seems to have merit also. Decisions, decisions!

Thanks. 

Jim
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07

       
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links. 

From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Thu Aug 30 07:35:27 2007
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:35:27 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <826136.90588.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB209077571@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

I think section 3.N in the book may need some updating...

3.N Parachute Release

Any car equipped with a parachute must have the
parachute release mounted in such a fashion that the
driver may actuate it under emergency conditions while
strapped securely in the seat wearing all safety equipment.

Nothing there about redundant, manual, electric etc..., now a SMART
person would have a Manual Backup to the Electrical Primary but there
doesn't appear to be any specification...

Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder



-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+mike.meierle=alcatel-lucent.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+mike.meierle=alcatel-lucent.com at autox.team.ne
t] On Behalf Of dan warner
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 9:18 AM
To: jgmagoo at comcast.net; land-speed-digest
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul

You will also need a redundent, cable, release in the case of failure of
the primary steering wheel release.

  DW

jgmagoo at comcast.net wrote:
  I read the post about being able to release the chute without taking
either hand off the steering wheel. This is interesting and makes sense.


I am building an enclosed cockpit lakester.

My question is, what is a super-reliable, fool-proof system for
releasing the chute using a button/ switch on the steering wheel? I
assume it would be something of an electrical or air-actuated release.
What I guess I'm asking is what is the safest and most reliable method
of accomplishing this. A lever and cable release, which I see used by
many, seems very reliable and fool-proof, but the hands-on-the-wheel
idea seems to have merit also. Decisions, decisions!

Thanks.

Jim
_______________________________________________
dwarner230 at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed



Started 62nd, first to finish - PRC Reliability Run '07


---------------------------------
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From Jimwprice at aol.com  Thu Aug 30 09:09:35 2007
From: Jimwprice at aol.com (Jimwprice at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:09:35 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] One hand (That's is all he has)
Message-ID: <c64.194d095d.340837af@aol.com>

How does the driver for Hair Ball racing do it with just one hand and  arm?



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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From ed at vetteracing.com  Thu Aug 30 09:19:28 2007
From: ed at vetteracing.com (ed at vetteracing.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:19:28 +0000
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
Message-ID: <W8682463535111188487168@webmail13>

I have to echo KT's remarks..... With a manual tranny, my right handkeeps
pretty busy, especially at El Mirage. My fire bottle actuatorsare right below
the steering wheel on the right side, and the chutelever is a a Pro Stock /
Funny Car type that hangs down from acenter roll bar cross member. I just "bat
it" and the chuteopens. hard to beat a good old fashioned Morse cable........
Ed



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Keith Turk [mailto:kturk at ala.net]
>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 02:40 AM
>To: jgmagoo at comcast.net, 'land-speed-digest'
>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
>
>I've kind of sat back on this one... but Sorry guys... I drive with my left
>hand and use my right hand to do all kinds of things.... oh like say SHIFT?
>The first part of the course is when I do the most driving and my right hand
>is rowing a shifter most the time as the car is accelerating thru the
>gears... Normally on the big end of the course everything is settled down
>and I put both hands on the wheel.... but I'm very comfortable reaching for
>the chute cable with my right hand. I even put my hand on the chute handle
>for the last 1/2 mile or so...
>
>Currently we even have the Nitrous button on the shifter... ( I don't agree
>with this...it's just what we have. ) Hard to put your hand on the chute
>when it's actuating a Nitrous button by the way... and it delays the amount
>of time you have in places like Maxton or El Mirage.
>
>Anyway... The advantage of a Cable that your pulling on is that it's almost
>always effective...
>
>Keith

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Thu Aug 30 09:38:06 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:38:06 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul
References: <826136.90588.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005a01c7eb1b$c3a233a0$6401a8c0@Rick>

Actually an all electric/air system may be designed and implemented with 
redundancy designed in.

My high speed chute in the linerwannabe is an adaption of that used by Don 
Vesco and I believe Sam Wheeler.
Early on in my liner quest, Don and I talked about "How do you know you are 
on fire?" .
He suggested a system that I have incorporated and describe.

A spring loaded air actuater, when energized with 100 psig air thru a 
Shrader valve, holds the chute closed.  If air supply is lost the chute 
deploys.

Nylon 6-6 air hose is run thru the engine bay around oil pan area, under 
intake manif -around fuel rail-fuel filter under fuel tank etc etc....
Now I need to point out, plastic air hose (1/4") is not run near exhaust 
system, which is mounted up high, where a fire is probably not going to 
initiate.

Additionally this air supply is routed to a small air relay/solenoid that is 
normally open, so if it looses 12 volts it vents the air to atmosphere.
A switch on the steering wheel is wired so it is normally open so when 
switched to an off position the system looses its ground and the air is 
vented, thus the chute deploys.  We know it works.  In 04 only too well with 
an overly sensitive switch    :=D  If the 12 volt system fails for any 
reason the chute deploys.

On the Ford Hydrogen car we had an automatic fire system that I am 
replicating that will be incorporated into this system.  Another normally 
closed solenoid is used so upon loosing air pressure, the relay closes 
actuating an electric device that punctures the seal on a halon bottle.

I'm also looking at a commercially available and reasonable $$$ smoke 
detector that we used on the Ford Hydrogen Fuel Cell car.  When parts are 
working well together I will report.  For now, I am mocking up the fire 
system since it is in addition to the 33 pounds of 1301 I currently utilize.


My low speed parachute uses a normal pull cable for deployment that is quite 
close to my right hand as are all controls, including shifting, but with air 
shifted Jerico that is a story in itself.....

Rick

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Thu Aug 30 09:45:51 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:45:51 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
References: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net><006b01c7eae9$d289bc30$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>
	<46D6B87B.2030708@dol.net>
Message-ID: <006a01c7eb1c$d8baf050$6401a8c0@Rick>

I'm in agreement with Joe in that all controls should be to the drivers 
right side.  We in America get in the vehicle on the left side, and with 
controls being on the right, nothing to get in the way and accidentally 
activated.  Even being left handed, switches on the right seem to be very 
natural.
Switches for shut down on the steering wheel.  Since I am EFI, Fuel pump 
switch, ignition switch, along with high speed parachute switch can be 
activated without removing hands from the wheel.

Rick Byrnes 

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Aug 30 10:17:52 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:17:52 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
In-Reply-To: <006a01c7eb1c$d8baf050$6401a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <001701c7eb21$50f5e990$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

Fuel pump switch????? Why noy just let the ecu turn it on..No rpm no
fuel.. That way 1 switch turns off ign fuel pump and ecu..
Dave


Switches for shut down on the steering wheel.  Since I am EFI, Fuel pump

switch, ignition switch, along with high speed parachute switch can be
activated without removing hands from the wheel.

Rick Byrnes

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date:
8/25/2007 5:00 PM

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Thu Aug 30 10:49:01 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:49:01 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
References: <001701c7eb21$50f5e990$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <002901c7eb25$ab91b9c0$6401a8c0@Rick>

Actually you are right Dave
I chose two because I used two high load relays that also handle several 
other things.  When Fuel pump is on, H20 pump for charge air cooling is also 
on.  Same with ignition, When it is on other systems are also powered on. 
ECU is switched separately.
You are correct though the electrical system could be simplified  and then 
give me room on the steering wheel for the shift button....
Thanks, nice to hear different view points once in a while.

Rick

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: "'Rick Byrnes'" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>; "'Joe Timney'" 
<joetimney at dol.net>
Cc: "'land-speed-digest'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)


Fuel pump switch????? Why noy just let the ecu turn it on..No rpm no
fuel.. That way 1 switch turns off ign fuel pump and ecu..
Dave


Switches for shut down on the steering wheel.  Since I am EFI, Fuel pump

switch, ignition switch, along with high speed parachute switch can be
activated without removing hands from the wheel.

Rick Byrnes

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date:
8/25/2007 5:00 PM

From ddahlgren at snet.net  Thu Aug 30 11:06:16 2007
From: ddahlgren at snet.net (ddahlgren at snet.net)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:06:16 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
In-Reply-To: <002901c7eb25$ab91b9c0$6401a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <002101c7eb28$13f2d8d0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>

You sound like you are surprisd I am right LOL..
Dave

-

Actually you are right Dave
I chose two because I used two high load relays that also handle several

other things.  When Fuel pump is on, H20 pump for charge air cooling is
also
on.  Same with ignition, When it is on other systems are also powered
on.
ECU is switched separately.
You are correct though the electrical system could be simplified  and
then
give me room on the steering wheel for the shift button.... Thanks, nice
to hear different view points once in a while.

Rick

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date:
8/25/2007 5:00 PM

From Rick at RBMotorsports.com  Thu Aug 30 11:27:11 2007
From: Rick at RBMotorsports.com (Rick Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:27:11 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
References: <002101c7eb28$13f2d8d0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
Message-ID: <003f01c7eb2b$00a0ae80$6401a8c0@Rick>

NO Dave, I'm never surprised when you are right.

Rick
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
To: "'Rick Byrnes'" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>; "'Joe Timney'" 
<joetimney at dol.net>
Cc: "'land-speed-digest'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)


> You sound like you are surprisd I am right LOL..
> Dave
>
> -
>
> Actually you are right Dave
> I chose two because I used two high load relays that also handle several
>
> other things.  When Fuel pump is on, H20 pump for charge air cooling is
> also
> on.  Same with ignition, When it is on other systems are also powered
> on.
> ECU is switched separately.
> You are correct though the electrical system could be simplified  and
> then
> give me room on the steering wheel for the shift button.... Thanks, nice
> to hear different view points once in a while.
>
> Rick
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date:
> 8/25/2007 5:00 PM
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> rick at rbmotorsports.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Thu Aug 30 11:33:22 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:33:22 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
References: <002101c7eb28$13f2d8d0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405>
	<003f01c7eb2b$00a0ae80$6401a8c0@Rick>
Message-ID: <017901c7eb2b$dd5c4000$6401a8c0@Glens>

Rick, that should start something. Waiting for the remarks to fly.LOL
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
To: <ddahlgren at snet.net>; "'Joe Timney'" <joetimney at dol.net>
Cc: "'land-speed-digest'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)


> NO Dave, I'm never surprised when you are right.
>
> Rick
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
> To: "'Rick Byrnes'" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>; "'Joe Timney'"
> <joetimney at dol.net>
> Cc: "'land-speed-digest'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
>
>
>> You sound like you are surprisd I am right LOL..
>> Dave
>>
>> -
>>
>> Actually you are right Dave
>> I chose two because I used two high load relays that also handle several
>>
>> other things.  When Fuel pump is on, H20 pump for charge air cooling is
>> also
>> on.  Same with ignition, When it is on other systems are also powered
>> on.
>> ECU is switched separately.
>> You are correct though the electrical system could be simplified  and
>> then
>> give me room on the steering wheel for the shift button.... Thanks, nice
>> to hear different view points once in a while.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date:
>> 8/25/2007 5:00 PM
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rick at rbmotorsports.com
>>
>> Land-speed mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From Flowbench at aol.com  Thu Aug 30 11:54:40 2007
From: Flowbench at aol.com (Flowbench at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:54:40 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul
Message-ID: <c96.17b3e4b8.34085e60@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/29/2007 12:29:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
jgmagoo at comcast.net writes:

> My question is, what is a super-reliable, fool-proof system for releasing 
> the chute using a button/ switch on the steering wheel? 

By now I'm sure everyone is tired of the replies either for or against a 
steering wheel mounted chute release. So in that vain I'll just add to the cannon 
fodder....
On the new car we are building we have an air shifted transmission with a 
shift button on one side of the steering wheel and a second chute release button 
on the other using a small air solenoid to "pull" the chute cable for us. 
Simple. Yes, it's no big deal to mount a simpler (is that a word?) lever pull the 
chute open as most of us have done in the past so chose what fits the best for 
you.

Mike


**************************************
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From Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com  Thu Aug 30 12:01:15 2007
From: Mike.Meierle at alcatel-lucent.com (MEIERLE Mike)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:01:15 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <c96.17b3e4b8.34085e60@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7C6E77E36A1EAD4BAD7F02E98294BDB209077900@USDALSMBS01.ad3.ad.alcatel.com>

Just don't get the buttons confused during the run... talk about driving
into the 'chute....

Mike Meierle
#847 F/P/MP
SCTA-BNI/Gear Grinders/Sidewinders/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder





Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:55 PM
To: jgmagoo at comcast.net; land-speed at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul

In a message dated 8/29/2007 12:29:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jgmagoo at comcast.net writes:

> My question is, what is a super-reliable, fool-proof system for
> releasing the chute using a button/ switch on the steering wheel?

By now I'm sure everyone is tired of the replies either for or against a
steering wheel mounted chute release. So in that vain I'll just add to
the cannon fodder....
On the new car we are building we have an air shifted transmission with
a shift button on one side of the steering wheel and a second chute
release button on the other using a small air solenoid to "pull" the
chute cable for us.
Simple. Yes, it's no big deal to mount a simpler (is that a word?) lever
pull the chute open as most of us have done in the past so chose what
fits the best for you.

Mike

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of Mike Meierle.vcf]

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Thu Aug 30 12:41:51 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:41:51 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
References: <002101c7eb28$13f2d8d0$8701a8c0@SataliteM10405><003f01c7eb2b$00a0ae80$6401a8c0@Rick>
	<017901c7eb2b$dd5c4000$6401a8c0@Glens>
Message-ID: <00a701c7eb35$72a4b760$6501a8c0@S>

Trust Rick....from a recent conversation with him I got the impression that
his last gig gave him ample opportunity to polish his skills in diplomacy.
Ed Weldon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer at beyondbb.com>
To: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>; <ddahlgren at snet.net>;
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
> Rick, that should start something. Waiting for the remarks to fly.LOL
> Glen

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rick Byrnes" <Rick at RBMotorsports.com>
> To: <ddahlgren at snet.net>;
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
> > NO Dave, I'm never surprised when you are right..... Rick

> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: <ddahlgren at snet.net>
> > To: "'Rick Byrnes'" > > Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
> >> You sound like you are surprised I am right LOL....... Dave

From dlodom at charter.net  Thu Aug 30 13:07:02 2007
From: dlodom at charter.net (DougOdom)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:07:02 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
In-Reply-To: <W8682463535111188487168@webmail13>
References: <W8682463535111188487168@webmail13>
Message-ID: <46D71556.4020801@charter.net>

I have to jump in here also. I do thing a little different, ( does that 
surprise anyone? ) Everything on the right side is for going and 
everything on the left side is for stopping. The right foot is for going 
and the left foot for stopping. The right hand works the starter button, 
shift lever and or the air shifter button on the wheel. The left hand  
works the parachute lever and or the air activator button on the wheel ( 
high speed chute only ). With the slow steering and stop limits I see no 
need to use two hands to steer the car. If it takes two hands then you 
need to figure out why.  What ever works for you is the best way to have 
it set up. Someone asked me what would happen to the chute if we forgot 
to turn the air on? Well the trans would not shift so I guess we would 
not need the high speed chute. But the air activator is hooked to a 
lever so I can over ride the system with my hand if needed.   Doug Odom 
in big ditch

>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Keith Turk [mailto:kturk at ala.net]
>>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 02:40 AM
>>To: jgmagoo at comcast.net, 'land-speed-digest'
>>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
>>
>>I've kind of sat back on this one... but Sorry guys... I drive with my left
>>hand and use my right hand to do all kinds of things.... oh like say SHIFT?
>>The first part of the course is when I do the most driving and my right hand
>>is rowing a shifter most the time as the car is accelerating thru the
>>gears... Normally on the big end of the course everything is settled down
>>and I put both hands on the wheel.... but I'm very comfortable reaching for
>>the chute cable with my right hand. I even put my hand on the chute handle
>>for the last 1/2 mile or so...
>>
>>Currently we even have the Nitrous button on the shifter... ( I don't agree
>>with this...it's just what we have. ) Hard to put your hand on the chute
>>when it's actuating a Nitrous button by the way... and it delays the amount
>>of time you have in places like Maxton or El Mirage.
>>
>>Anyway... The advantage of a Cable that your pulling on is that it's almost
>>always effective...
>>
>>Keith
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________

From joetimney at dol.net  Thu Aug 30 15:04:50 2007
From: joetimney at dol.net (Joe Timney)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:04:50 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
In-Reply-To: <46D71556.4020801@charter.net>
References: <W8682463535111188487168@webmail13> <46D71556.4020801@charter.net>
Message-ID: <46D730F2.8070004@dol.net>

That is the beauty of this list. For all of us to share our thoughts and 
believes.
I have been building cars & bikes since age 14, drag racing since 15, 
worked at S&W Race Cars in the '70's, on my own since '79. What I do 
today is what I have learned from some of the best and worst in the 
world, yes, some of the best lessons come from poor executions. I 
wouldn't ride today in things I built 'back in the day'!!! Scary stuff!!!
My style today is a culmination of all I have learned since birth.

So please keep the thoughts and examples coming...

joe

For use DougOdom wrote:
> I have to jump in here also. I do thing a little different, ( does that 
> surprise anyone? ) 

    Doug Odom
> in big ditch

From lsr_man at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 16:51:18 2007
From: lsr_man at yahoo.com (Dick J)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:51:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
In-Reply-To: <46D71556.4020801@charter.net>
Message-ID: <621722.88565.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

DougOdom <dlodom at charter.net> wrote:.. .. ... What ever works for you is the best way to have it set up. 
   
  Now that sounds like a solution!
   
  DickJ
  In East Texas

       
---------------------------------
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From smsandimas at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 31 08:04:23 2007
From: smsandimas at earthlink.net (Steve Meierdiercks)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:04:23 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle
Message-ID: <380-22007853114423312@earthlink.net>

    What are the plus and minus of running a narrow front axle on a
roadster? Also looking for someone to build a new straight tube axle for my
car.Any help would be appreciated.

        THANKS STEVE

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Aug 31 08:47:23 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:47:23 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle
References: <380-22007853114423312@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <004f01c7ebdd$d7bf3280$6401a8c0@Glens>

Steve it would help if you said what area you live in for someone to fab the 
axle. Check the rule book on width.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Meierdiercks" <smsandimas at earthlink.net>
To: "landspeed list" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:04 AM
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle


>    What are the plus and minus of running a narrow front axle on a
> roadster? Also looking for someone to build a new straight tube axle for 
> my
> car.Any help would be appreciated.
>
>        THANKS STEVE
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From joyseydevil at comcast.net  Fri Aug 31 11:56:29 2007
From: joyseydevil at comcast.net (John Burk)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:56:29 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle
Message-ID: <000901c7ebf8$427af680$563c2544@john>

>    What are the plus and minus of running a narrow front axle on a
> roadster? Also looking for someone to build a new straight tube axle for 
> my
> car.Any help would be appreciated.
>

Steve
An aerodynamicist told me the gap between the tire and the body should be at 
least as wide as the tire and that aerodynamically a 7" tire with a 5" gap 
is the same as a 12" tire with no gap . 

From speedtimer at beyondbb.com  Fri Aug 31 12:05:27 2007
From: speedtimer at beyondbb.com (Glen Barrett)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:05:27 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle
References: <000901c7ebf8$427af680$563c2544@john>
Message-ID: <007301c7ebf9$830845d0$6401a8c0@Glens>

Steve
The thing you didn't mention was the type of roadster, standard high boy, 
street or modified roadster. The rules are different depending on the class. 
If you have a rule book contact one of the roadster committee people for all 
of the info you are looking for. That's what great about this racers site. 
Everyone is willing to help and answer questions. Steering you to the right 
place is also important. Good luck with the project. Also www.landracing.com 
is the other source for LSR racers.
Glen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Burk" <joyseydevil at comcast.net>
To: "LandSpeed List" <Land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Front axle


>>    What are the plus and minus of running a narrow front axle on a
>> roadster? Also looking for someone to build a new straight tube axle for
>> my
>> car.Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>
> Steve
> An aerodynamicist told me the gap between the tire and the body should be 
> at
> least as wide as the tire and that aerodynamically a 7" tire with a 5" gap
> is the same as a 12" tire with no gap .
> _______________________________________________
> speedtimer at beyondbb.com
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From saltfever at comcast.net  Fri Aug 31 14:48:21 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:48:21 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands (I disagree)
Message-ID: <000001c7ec10$44dd3c90$3574a943@dim8100>

I like the logic of the idea but would appreciate a few more details. I am
assuming the ECU senses rpm by some kind of hall-effect sensor or ignition
pulse? That works when you want the fuel pump to turn on but what happens
when you want to kill it? If the engine is already running and you kill the
ECU the rpm sensor is still feeding information. Does the ECU shut down all
solenoids as part of its shut-down procedure? Do you need a "normally
closed" relay so when ECU power is lost the relay automatically goes to its
normal state? An EFI pump consumes copious amps. Can the ECU supply it, or
is there a relay in-line?  Sorry for so many questions but you can tell a
MFI guy may be merging into the EFI world :-)    -Elon 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: ddahlgren at snet.net, August 30, 2007

Fuel pump switch????? Why noy just let the ecu turn it on..No rpm no fuel..
That way 1 switch turns off ign fuel pump and ecu.. Dave

From saltfever at comcast.net  Fri Aug 31 14:55:41 2007
From: saltfever at comcast.net (3 liter)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:55:41 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands(I disagree)
Message-ID: <000501c7ec11$4b1a1c30$3574a943@dim8100>

A couple of years ago Glen described on this list, a redundant
chute-deployment system he used on his Dragster. I am sure it would be
interesting to hear about it again.   -Elon



----- Original Message -----

"'Rick Byrnes'"

(Snip . . .) Since I am EFI, Fuel pump switch, ignition switch, along with
high speed parachute switch can be activated without removing hands from the
wheel.

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 31 15:53:01 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (James Tone)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:53:01 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle
Message-ID: <6453205.1188597181282.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

There is a minimum tread width that must be followed. The rest is up to you. Most all gas/fuel roadsters are similar today. Drivers position vary as well as drivers set back position to the extent of the rules. It all depends on what you like. Minimun tread width is spelled out in the rule book. 

Speciality axle widths and spring style vary and with todays "lawyers" dictating many of the manulacturing of speciality axles.  Many will only make a "standard" width, along with the spindle styles on using. Discussions with them is the only way to find out what they will do.

Most of the time it's the guy who can get the most amount of horse power to the ground who holds the record not the width of the front axle.
   
Good Luck

>Subject: Re: [Land-speed] Front axle
>
>>    What are the plus and minus of running a narrow front axle on a
>> roadster? Also looking for someone to build a new straight tube axle for 
>> my
>> car.Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>
>Steve
>An aerodynamicist told me the gap between the tire and the body should be at 
>least as wide as the tire and that aerodynamically a 7" tire with a 5" gap 
>is the same as a 12" tire with no gap . 
>_______________________________________________
>gmc6power at earthlink.net
>
>Land-speed mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From adin at frontier.net  Fri Aug 31 16:55:58 2007
From: adin at frontier.net (adin at frontier.net)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:55:58 -0600
Subject: [Land-speed] Newswise Science News | Student Hopes to Break
 Human Land Speed Record
In-Reply-To: <000501c7eaba$ff3ea260$6400a8c0@Dale>
References: <000501c7eaba$ff3ea260$6400a8c0@Dale>
Message-ID: <20070831165558.zed1bj8hogskgc80@webmail.brainstorminternet.net>

Interesting!

Here's a photo of Sam Whittingham HPLSR (at the time) 80mph and change.

http://images17.fotki.com/v8/photos/4/43175/149033/samwork-vi.jpg?1032729953

enjoy.


Quoting Dale H Pulju <d.pulju at pahrump.com>:

> http://www.newswise.com:80/articles/view/532888/
>
> human power record to be set in Nevada, I was on this road this spring it is
> in great shape
> dale
> dark in pahrump, more work on 57 chev tomorrow
> _______________________________________________
> adin at frontier.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From lsrvette at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 31 18:13:29 2007
From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:13:29 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul
In-Reply-To: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
References: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <01e401c7ec2c$f7a8a7d0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>

Excuse this post if this suggestion has already be stated, however a simple
and low cost hands free chute system can be added to a traditional (and very
reliable) Morse cable by doing the following:  add a 12v solenoid (think
electric door lock) to the existing Morse cable.  By this I mean that we
added a short length of 3/16 stainless wire rope between the solenoid and a
cable clamp on the exposed end of the Morse near the chute.  The solenoid is
then triggered via a standard automotive relay and the push button switch of
your choice. 

We mounted two of these (high speed and emergency) on the 1150 streamliner
bike so Gary did not have to take is hands off the bar (very bad things can
happen when you do this on a bike!).  They have never failed or given us the
slightest problems.  And if they do... there is always the manual pull.

Just a thought...

John

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
jgmagoo at comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 3:28 PM
To: land-speed-digest
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul

I read the post about being able to release the chute without taking either
hand off the steering wheel. This is interesting and makes sense. 

I am building an enclosed cockpit lakester. 

My question is, what is a super-reliable, fool-proof system for releasing
the chute using a button/ switch on the steering wheel?  I assume it would
be something of an electrical or air-actuated release.  What I guess I'm
asking is what is the safest and most reliable method of accomplishing this.
A lever and cable release, which I see used by many, seems very reliable and
fool-proof, but the hands-on-the-wheel idea seems to have merit also.
Decisions, decisions!

Thanks. 

Jim
_______________________________________________
lsrvette at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Fri Aug 31 18:34:43 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:34:43 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul
References: <082920071928.6715.46D5C8CB0009C09700001A3B22058891160101090E030906@comcast.net>
	<01e401c7ec2c$f7a8a7d0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>
Message-ID: <003a01c7ec2f$e7e0b5b0$6501a8c0@S>

I like this method most of all for my application.  Thanks, John
Ed Weldon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Staiger" <lsrvette at yahoo.com>
To: <jgmagoo at comcast.net>; "'land-speed-digest'" <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Land-speed] No Hands Chute Release>From>Jim McNaul


> Excuse this post if this suggestion has already be stated, however a
simple
> and low cost hands free chute system can be added to a traditional (and
very
> reliable) Morse cable by doing the following:  add a 12v solenoid (think
> electric door lock) to the existing Morse cable.  By this I mean that we
> added a short length of 3/16 stainless wire rope between the solenoid and
a
> cable clamp on the exposed end of the Morse near the chute.  The solenoid
is
> then triggered via a standard automotive relay and the push button switch
of
> your choice.
> We mounted two of these (high speed and emergency) on the 1150 streamliner
> bike so Gary did not have to take is hands off the bar (very bad things
can
> happen when you do this on a bike!).  They have never failed or given us
the
> slightest problems.  And if they do... there is always the manual pull.
> Just a thought...John

From lsrvette at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 31 18:36:33 2007
From: lsrvette at yahoo.com (John Staiger)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:36:33 -0400
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands (I disagree)
In-Reply-To: <000001c7ec10$44dd3c90$3574a943@dim8100>
References: <000001c7ec10$44dd3c90$3574a943@dim8100>
Message-ID: <01e801c7ec30$2d6b98c0$6801a8c0@StaigerNet.net>

Elon,

In reverse order; ECUs generally have two separate internal power supplies.
One feeds the "brain and memory" and is on as long as the master switch is
on.  The other powers the ECU's output drivers (e.g. fuel injectors, spark
box, relays, etc.)  The important thing to remember, is when the
manufacturers are building solid state electronics, it is much easier to
switch a ground (sink power to ground) than to switch the power (provide
amperage). As such, most ECUs require power be delivered to the device (e.g.
injectors) out side of the ECU.

It is common for a standard Bosch 30AMP relay to be used as the "switch" for
the power under control of the ECU.  The ECU only needed to switch a few
milliamps verses the full 30 amps.  Since the relay will generally have lots
of excess capacity - why not let it switch the fuel pump? After all, the
fuel pump is not needed if the injectors are in the off state (ignition off
that is).  With this type of setup, the ECU can be "running" yet have all
solenoids, injectors, spark boxes, etc. in the off state.  As for the
question on the RPM sensor, if the ECU is off (or the ECU drivers have been
told to turn off), the ECU will have shut off the relays hence killing the
power to everything including the RMP sensor - no power, no signal,
regardless if the engine is still spinning.

When I get back from the BUB meet on the flats this week, I can send you a
drawing of the electrical system on the bike.  It is far more comprehensive
than most, however it will give you a very good idea on how a system works
and what is art of the possible.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:land-speed-bounces+lsrvette=yahoo.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of 3
liter
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 4:48 PM
To: land-speed submit
Subject: [Land-speed] No Hands (I disagree)

I like the logic of the idea but would appreciate a few more details. I am
assuming the ECU senses rpm by some kind of hall-effect sensor or ignition
pulse? That works when you want the fuel pump to turn on but what happens
when you want to kill it? If the engine is already running and you kill the
ECU the rpm sensor is still feeding information. Does the ECU shut down all
solenoids as part of its shut-down procedure? Do you need a "normally
closed" relay so when ECU power is lost the relay automatically goes to its
normal state? An EFI pump consumes copious amps. Can the ECU supply it, or
is there a relay in-line?  Sorry for so many questions but you can tell a
MFI guy may be merging into the EFI world :-)    -Elon 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: ddahlgren at snet.net, August 30, 2007

Fuel pump switch????? Why noy just let the ecu turn it on..No rpm no fuel..
That way 1 switch turns off ign fuel pump and ecu.. Dave
_______________________________________________
lsrvette at yahoo.com

Land-speed mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From kturk at ala.net  Fri Aug 31 21:23:17 2007
From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:23:17 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle AERO?
References: <380-22007853114423312@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001201c7ec47$7127dee0$6900a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p>

We asked the Front axle aero question about width to Gary Eaker ( he owns 
the wind tunnel in Charlotte ).... and he didn't think it mattered how long 
the axles were... his thought was stablity first and the miniscule aero 
advantage of closer to the body a VERY distant second....  he emphised that 
it really didn't matter how far they stuck out...

K 

From smsandimas at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 31 21:56:24 2007
From: smsandimas at earthlink.net (Steve Meierdiercks)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:56:24 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle
Message-ID: <380-2200796135624890@earthlink.net>

Glen and JD,
                    What I was trying to find out if there are any
advantages going to a narrower front axle.It seems that some of the
roadsters have the wheels in a closer to the body then mine. This was my
first year running at Bonneville and the learning experience was truly
unbelievable.       
                    About 6 years ago when I started building my roadster
for Bonneville,I had  a front axle built by Specialty Cars in Calif..It was
built out of 2 inch DOM and 44" wide at the bosses.After calling them to
ask about a new shorter axle,it seems they are no longer in business.After
a few calls today there seems no one wants to build a tube axle at the
length I want.So I  guess I will have to build my own.
                   After leaving So Cal 2 years ago and now living in NW
Arkansas, still trying to make some new connections. 
  
THANKS STEVE

From Want1937hd at aol.com  Fri Aug 31 23:15:29 2007
From: Want1937hd at aol.com (Want1937hd at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 01:15:29 EDT
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle AERO?
Message-ID: <c18.1aafd9be.340a4f71@aol.com>

Some time before 1910 they filled I beam front axles with wood blocks to form 
a wing profile. Does that have any positive effect other than just looking 
cool? Bob the historian in connecticut

We asked the Front axle aero question about width to Gary Eaker ( he owns 
the wind tunnel in Charlotte ).... and he didn't think it mattered how long 
the axles were... his thought was stablity first and the miniscule aero 
advantage of closer to the body a VERY distant second....  he emphised that 
it really didn't matter how far they stuck out...

K 





************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From gmc6power at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 31 23:51:24 2007
From: gmc6power at earthlink.net (J.D. Tone)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:51:24 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle
References: <380-2200796135624890@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <003601c7ec5c$240da990$0200a8c0@mydf7618c59bbf>

Page 46 stats a minimum of 44" or tread width. My personal roadster has the 
top center of the king pin at 41" and my tread width is 50". My rear tread 
is 50" also.  Tracking is important. Try negitive off set wheels if you want 
to move yours in. Cheaper than an axle..I do not consider mine close to the 
body...Good luck
Subject: [Land-speed] Front axle


> Glen and JD,
>                    What I was trying to find out if there are any
> advantages going to a narrower front axle.It seems that some of the
> roadsters have the wheels in a closer to the body then mine. This was my
> first year running at Bonneville and the learning experience was truly
> unbelievable.
>                    About 6 years ago when I started building my roadster
> for Bonneville,I had  a front axle built by Specialty Cars in Calif..It 
> was
> built out of 2 inch DOM and 44" wide at the bosses.After calling them to
> ask about a new shorter axle,it seems they are no longer in business.After
> a few calls today there seems no one wants to build a tube axle at the
> length I want.So I  guess I will have to build my own.
>                   After leaving So Cal 2 years ago and now living in NW
> Arkansas, still trying to make some new connections.
>
> THANKS STEVE
> _______________________________________________
> gmc6power at earthlink.net
>
> Land-speed mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/land-speed

From 23.weldon at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 17:54:47 2007
From: 23.weldon at comcast.net (Ed Weldon)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:54:47 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
References: <20070828215806.7CBF8187A20@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <009501c7e9ce$d6bddb90$6501a8c0@S>

Greg-- 
There are no "right" dimensions.  Every car situation is different, every
driver is different.  In general give yourself as much space to start as you
can afford.  You can always adjust the seat inward.  Make sure you have the
rule book for whatever the applicable racing organization in front of you.
Much of the layout will depend on safety considerations like protecting
various parts of your bod.  This gets a lot of "ink" in LSR forums.
Remember you have to be able to see and/or reach all the controls and
instruments.  Oh yeah, and the course ahead.

If you're any good at drawing to scale get yourself a positionable human
figure drawing template.  Google search "Alvin TD1735BG Human Figure" for
sources of one example.  Cost is less than $10.00.  Then you can draw the
rough dimensions of the car components like seat, steering wheel and pedals
in side view profile in a scale drawing.  These figure templates range
around 1/8 or 1/10 scale an usually represent the statistical average human
figure dimensions.

OK, you say your driver in not that average size?  Go find a copier (Kinkos)
to scale the pieces up or down.  Cut them out, paste them to pieces of this
cardboard (like cereal boxes) put them together with pins at the joints and
set them down on the drawing.
While at kinkos make some copies of your scale drawings of car components
and glue them to cardboard shapes.  That way you can move them around also
on the drawing of the car frame.

Now, you say you can't draw worth a darn.  Do it full size on the garage
floor or out on the patio.  This is how wooden boats get built using a small
scale drawing or sometimes just a table of offsets.  They call it "lofting"
in that world.
Use whatever cheap materials are available like large corrugated appliance
box panels, old plywood to rough out a seat, etc.  I even used 6" radius
1-3/4 exhaust u-bends and 1-1/2" electrical conduit to mock up a roll cage.
You can rough out a pretty sturdy cockpit and firewall shape from 3/4"
electrical conduit.   Get all possible drivers to test fit this layout.

Here's a tip:  Look for an old out of date belt and shoulder harness setup
to use when your construction gets far enough along to test the fit of the
driver.  That way you can wait until the last month or so before the first
tech inspection to buy a fresh belt set.

What I would not do is try to design it entirely on paper or a computer CAD
system and then just go start cutting metal or building molds.  It takes
years of experience for a designer to be able to layout a driving position
in a vehicle properly in addition to the CAD/drawing skills and exceptional
spatial visualization talents needed to solve the myriad of 3 dimensional
fit problems.  In all probability you don't have it.
Ed Weldon,  Los Gatos, CA

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Meyers" <advo at comcast.net>
To: <land-speed at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:57 PM
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT


> While we're on the general topic, does anyone have a good source for
general
> guidelines on cockpit design? I mean like measurements from seat to
> firewall, seat back angles, distance from shoulder to steering wheel.....
> I'm designing a vehicle from the ground up which will be used for driving
> twisty roads. It will use the turbocharged flathead six XO motor we raced
on
> the salt last year (land speed content).
> Thanks
> Greg

From d.pulju at pahrump.com  Mon Aug 27 15:03:09 2007
From: d.pulju at pahrump.com (Dale H Pulju)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:03:09 -0700
Subject: [Land-speed] FAST FRIENDS: Speed-loving seniors from Michigan chase
	world records
Message-ID: <000501c7e8ed$ac89e580$6400a8c0@Dale>

http://www.freep.com:80/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070826/SPORTS16/70826071
6/1118/RSS

great article about Bonneville racing
dale
just brought home new old lathe, resting from 100+ heat

From advo at comcast.net  Tue Aug 28 09:22:31 2007
From: advo at comcast.net (Greg Meyers)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:22:31 -0500
Subject: [Land-speed] cockpit design and layout OT
In-Reply-To: <PKEAJDAKJMECPJDGNLFLCELJDIAA.lsr1301@dahmurf.com>
Message-ID: <20070828152256.75FB61879D8@autox.team.net>

While we're on the general topic, does anyone have a good source for general
guidelines on cockpit design? I mean like measurements from seat to
firewall, seat back angles, distance from shoulder to steering wheel.....
I'm designing a vehicle from the ground up which will be used for driving
twisty roads. It will use the turbocharged flathead six XO motor we raced on
the salt last year (land speed content).

Thanks
Greg
http://salt2salt.com
http://www.biophiz.com/turbostude/Tribaker.htm
http://turbostude.com