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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi all, thanks for your thoughts Al; things that many (most?) of us have thought about. I was with you until the last paragraph. I have always been of a mind with Austin-Healeys (Healeys) that there are enough of them around (well, excluding a few rare models), that I have never been offended when somebody customizes them to suit their own tastes. I feel differently with rare cars as I think there is some obligation on behalf of those owners to preserve some history, but I don’t feel that way about Healeys. I had a number of “discussions” with Rich Chrysler about this and as many of you know he was an uber-ardent supporter of complete originality; they were “interesting” discussions!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>However, for me, owning and driving a Healey (I am a second owner and have had my BT7 for 50 years in a few months) goes beyond what it looks like or its mediocre performance and questionable handling (mine is bog stock). There is an indefinable “essence of Healey” that I love. At some point, as the number of modifications increase, it becomes, for me, less of a Healey. I enjoy its quirks. If I wanted a safe, reliable better performing hobby car, I would buy one. If my Healey lets me down on the road, and it rarely has, I have confidence that because it is mechanically simple I can fix a lot of it roadside and carry tools and spares to do a lot. Granted, most of my drives are under 100 km from home, but I have driven a few times through the eastern states (I am near Toronto, ON), done a few laps of Lime Rock in it, and driven to friends in southern Michigan, and frankly if I had reason, would be OK driving it anywhere in North America. I know I could get more accurate timing with a modified distributor and electronic ignition, but I enjoy occasionally setting the point gap and timing; I like the “open” look of 48 spokes, so when I replaced the wheels, that is what I bought – painted; I don’t have a modified starter, or a spin-on filter; I have the original mechanical regulator and a generator, run original lights all around and it has the original radiator, bellows thermostat and original fan (and no cooling issues). I feel that every one of the modifications available to us, although technically sound, detracts to varying degrees from it being a Healey. As for an electric “Healey”, well for me that is simply no longer a Healey. I can even live with owners dropping V-8s into them, at least that was a period conversion – it represents part of the spectrum of Healeys I saw as a teenager, (though I waffle on whether I can think of them as Healeys). “Nasty Boys” don’t appeal to me, but nor do they bother me. I am not completely obsessed with originality. For example I run modern tires of the correct size (i.e., not biased-ply) and I use modern lubricants. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It is not about the styling, it is about it being a Healey. However, I recognize and respect that we all feel differently and I am OK with that. I will continue to strive to maintain mine as close as I can to when it came out of the factory (thank you all the authors of the concours guidelines!), pretty much with the same conviction as Rich had, but for different reasons – I just enjoy driving something that old (and older – I have M.G.s from the 30s and 40s). I enjoy it for what it is, a beautiful, reliable for its time, 65 year-old English sports car. If the younger generation don’t want that, then they can buy something else. I confess I am lucky in that I have a 38 year-old son who is mechanically minded and loves the old technology. He will get mine.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This is an old argument with, in my opinion, no rights or wrongs, and I was going to stay silent, but heck, its late, I am tired, and probably made a bad decision!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers, Mirek<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>alfuller194@gmail.com<br><b>Sent:</b> February 17, 2025 6:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'James Frey' <rcw414@icloud.com>; 'Michael Salter' <michaelsalter@gmail.com><br><b>Cc:</b> 'Healey List' <healeys@autox.team.net><br><b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] The Future of Healey Ownership<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Michael, Jim and All:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Your comments below have me thinking about what I have valued in my Austin-Healeys, and by extension what others do, will, or might value in them – as balanced against the costs of buying, restoring, upgrading or maintaining the cars.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>The Healey was never the fastest car I owned, and it was never the absolute best handling (though, the last BJ-8 with a new frame and gas shocks does handle pretty well). Obviously the Healey never had the most up-to-date safety features, and its exterior and dash lighting needed LED upgrades to perform even adequately. The list of things the cars were not is endless I compared to modern cars…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>BUT: driving a Healey usually put a smile on my face, and it appeared to put smiles on a lot of other people’s faces when out and about. As you all know, you cannot drive one of these cars without getting smiles, waves, thumbs-up, casual nods, etc – all acknowledging the wonderful looks the Healeys have! If you park one, you will undoubtedly find your self in a conversation with someone who either had one and sold it, wished he had bought one way back when, wished he could buy one now, had an uncle who had one, or a cousin, or a friend’s dad, or, or, or… - you know how it goes! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>As much fun as it has been to drive my Healeys all over the US and Canada, as well as Norway, Denmark and Sweden – I can say that maintaining the cars has been the sore spot for me, and I’m now at an age and physical condition where it’s somewhere between really-not-fun, really-not-practical and really-not-possible anymore. As such, this conversation hits home for me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>SO – what do I think about the future of Healey ownership? I suspect there will always be a small cadre of serious collectors who want and value cars that are as original as possible (whether “concours” level, or just plain nice cars!). The pool of cars that survive in such condition is shrinking gradually, but then so is the pool of such people! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>I also suspect that there is a substantial and growing group who would love the opportunity to have a car with the classic styling of an Austin-Healey, but the reliability and drivability of a modern car. “Modern” in this context may well be a very plastic term – meaning different things to different generations. For today’s purposes I ask you all whether the future might be electric? An Austin-Healey that has good acceleration and brakes, good handling, no fluid leaks (!!) and far fewer to no 60 year-old parts to go bad – all combined with the classic lines of the Healey.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>What do you say?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>-----------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>All the best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Al Fuller<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Healeys <<a href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Frey via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 16, 2025 3:10 PM<br><b>To:</b> Michael Salter <<a href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Healey List <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Hello<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'>The costs you cite below are inexorably linked to the “What to Do with our Healeys” question that was also raised. Over the last several years, I have restored/built 3 cars with most of the work done by a local shop (one of which was a Bugeye). I needed to have most work performed by my shop. Although my skills are moderate and I enjoy turning wrenches, my time available to do so has lessened in recent years. </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'>Given the above circumstances, I have easily spent 2-3 times market value on the purchase price, work performed, parts, etc. I consider myself lucky to have a trusted local shop, but depending on where you live (even assuming you are willing to spend the money), it can be extraordinarily difficult to get the cars serviced, let alone have significant restoration work done. I also don’t see the value of most Healeys going up much, and it might go down given the (arguably) shrinking market/demographics for these cars. </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'>So given my recent experience, as much as I might love to own a BJ8 and would consider myself “a trusted steward”, paying significant dollars (even for a beautifully restored car) in a declining market might not be the best idea. As for a car that “needs work”, I’m starting to feel like I’ve been there and done that a little too often. Also, there are fun (more modern) cars out there for similar dollars that don’t present the same financial risk and difficulties in selling. </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'>Lastly, I’m 61 (so not “young”) and I think those that are younger than me are an even tougher sell. I have 2 adult sons that have a moderate interest in cars and the “old cars” they might have an interest in are probably from 2000-2010. </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'>The market is undeniably softer than previously, but I actually think current values are a sellers market, even in the US. With the potential for declining demand, it’s hard for me to see an improving Healey market over the next 10+ years. </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'>Jim</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On Feb 16, 2025, at 2:16 PM, Michael Salter <<a href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Very good question. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>All the work that you describe requires an individual with significant skill(s). These tasks are not something that your "run of the mill" parts changer can undertake. In our part of the world (Canada) those "parts changers", without breaking a sweat can easily pull in 6 figures which equates to $50/hr. $50/hr paid to the tradesman will typically be charged out at an hourly rate of at least $100.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>In my book a full restoration takes 1200 hours at least, usually a lot more to produce concours standards.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>So labour ONLY $120K.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Parts and materials usually at least 50% of labour. $60K.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Incidentals at least another $20K<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>It's getting up there </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif'>😳😳</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>M<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On Sun., Feb. 16, 2025, 1:40 p.m. warthodson--- via Healeys, <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>The list has been very quiet for a long time.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>How about a discussion about the cost of restoring a BN1? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>The metal work is About 90% done. The remaining work includes final fitting all body panels, preparing for paint & final painting.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Wiring, plumbing including rebuilding the brakes, interior, fitting the windscreen, convertible top, side curtains including providing all material where necessary. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Rebuild the engine including all the machining. I have all the necessary components.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Gary Hodson<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="m_6446190483034331511ydpaa12e928yahoo_quoted_0398894478"><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Sunday, February 16, 2025 at 10:46:32 AM CST, Mike Sinclair via Healeys <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div id="m_6446190483034331511ydpaa12e928yiv3642250353"><div><p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Is it me, or is the list quiet? I haven't seen anything for quite a while?</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Mik</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><br><a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/warthodson@aol.com" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/warthodson@aol.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><br><a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><br><a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/rcw414@icloud.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/rcw414@icloud.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>