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Spitballing ...<br>
<br>
I went through my BJ8's O/D a few years ago. The car had 64K miles
on it when I bought it (approx. 1984), and about 215K* miles on it
when I did the overhaul. The O/D cone clutch was serviceable--and
AFAIK didn't slip--and I reinstalled it. If new cone clutches were
readily available I <i>might</i> have bought new, on principle,
depending on cost, but all I could find was a re-manned one from
DWM. To me this implied they didn't often need replacement, whereas
known wear items like the accumulator are offered by several vendors
(I would have installed one with an O-ring if I'd known about it).<br>
<br>
All this to say, unless the car has extremely high mileage and/or
the O/D has been abused somehow I'd be surprised if the clutch is
worn 'to the bone.' Obviously, slippage in the cone clutch would
cause Simon's car's symptoms; if so, the problem will get
progressively worse (and more consistent). I think one way to test
an O/D clutch would be to really lug the car pulling an uphill grade
in 4th-O/D, if the clutch is going to slip it would do it then (as
would a worn engine clutch). There's also a (remote) possibility
that, for some reason, O/D pressure fluctuates during driving.<br>
<br>
<br>
* Anyone else have this many or more known miles on a Healey?<br>
<br>
bs<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/26/2024 4:51 AM, Michael Salter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB3i7LKL17=VUo7tjwUNX=jM8-NhB=jv6XJmHogrdmBo3KrVDA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:12.8px">"What
I can’t do is understand the leap to the OD cone clutch?"</span><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:12.8px"> Fair
question.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:12.8px">Between
the flywheel and the rear wheels there are only 2 places
where "slippage" can occur these are the clutch and the
overdrive's cone clutch. </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:12.8px">The
gearbox, other than the cone clutch in the overdrive, is a
go/no go arrangement, i.e. no "slippage".</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:12.8px">The
rear wheel splines, believe it or not, can also produce
"slippage " if they are in really bad condition but I
presume that isn't the case here.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:12.8px">The
test that you just completed resulted in no driveline
slippage when the overdrive was disabled. </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:12.8px">You
are reporting slippage when the overdrive operating system
is enabled so it follows that further diagnosis of that is
required.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="times new roman, serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">Yes, your next step would be the
same test drive, i.e. full engine torque on an uphill
grade, to confirm that the slippage issue has returned now
that the overdriveoperating valvehasbe re-installed. </span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="times new roman, serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">I would do this test drive BEFORE
making any adjustments to the overdrive valve or solenoid
in order to confirm that meerly installing the overdrive
operating valve resulted in the slippage issue returning. </span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="times new roman, serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">Hope the weather improves,
beautiful day here.</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="times new roman, serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">M</span></font></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri., Apr. 26, 2024, 7:24
a.m. Simon Lachlan, <<a
href="mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word"
lang="EN-GB">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Hi,
Thanks for this.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Not
sure I understand fully. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Once
I’d finished the test drive with the OD operating
valve out of the car, I returned the rod, ball, spring
etc and put in the gauge rather than the nut. And got
500+ psi. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">What
I can’t do is understand the leap to the OD cone
clutch. Not arguing…just saying no comprende. As I sat
in the car, I was thinking that the function of the OD
seems OK and that it’s being interfered with by
something in its circuitry……relay, solenoid or
throttle switch. That’s probably wishful thinking as I
really don’t want to be swimming in those waters.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I
did, as a matter of course, clean out the tiny hole in
the rod but didn’t detect any blockage….which doesn’t
mean much as something minute could have been inside
and been washed away by the detergent/hot water then
WD40…..</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">After
someone’s advice – some time back – I’ve got another
rod whose aperture has been drilled out to 1.5mm. This
was “to allow the OD to disengage faster”. Don’t
recall if I tried it. Could that rod be any help here?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The
ball seems to be sitting square on its seat and the
tip of the rod, where the ball sits, is not worn or
chipped.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Residual
pressure….. goes to 500+ when I switch OD ON and stays
there until, engine and switch OFF, I energize the
solenoid a few times whereupon it drops to zero.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Another
test drive(s) seems called for. But the hood is off to
enable access and the forecast is grim for the next
week.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Very
open to more suggestions. Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Simon</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> Michael Salter <<a
href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 26, 2024 12:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon Lachlan <<a
href="mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Healeys <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Overdrive pressure or clutch
slip Step 2!</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Okay, then it is confirmed that
neither the clutch (on the flywheel) nor the overdrive
cone clutch (in it's normal drive condition) are
producing the slippage. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">From this we can conclude that
even when the overdrive solenoid is <b><u>not</u></b>
energized the slippage is occurring at the overdrive
cone clutch and that for some reason hydraulic
pressure is finding its way into the overdrive
operating cylinders even when the overdrive
operating valve is closed.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This can be caused by leakage
past operating the valve or residual pressure.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The question of residual pressure
can be resolved by checking that the bleed hole in
the bottom of the long overdrive valve push rod is
not blocked.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Whether or not hydraulic pressure
is leaking past the operating valve ball can be
checked by ensuring that the ball is clearly on its
seat when the operating valve is <b><u>not </u></b> energized.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">M</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu., Apr. 25, 2024, 3:38 p.m.
Simon Lachlan, <<a
href="mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Of course. Isn’t
that how I got the 520psi?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> Michael Salter <<a
href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 25, 2024 6:19
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon Lachlan <<a
href="mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Healeys <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Overdrive pressure or
clutch slip Step 2!</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Question ... when you got
home and did the pressure test I presume that
was AFTER you had put the valve with the "top
hat", ball, spring and valve rod cap and
washer back into position?</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">M</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu., Apr. 25, 2024,
12:29 p.m. Simon Lachlan, <<a
href="mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">So, here is
Michael’s “Step 1” completed. (See his
email, below).</span></p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Removed the
operating valve and, just for luck,
disconnected the two wires into 3<sup>rd</sup>/4<sup>th</sup>
switch. Took the car for a spin.
Up/down longish/steepish hills, 10
miles on motorway. Various rpm…..no
slippage at all.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Had a
puncture…..nail in tyre. Rear RHS.
Flat as a pancake at once. Nearly
onto rim. Nail! I imagine the inner
tube is shredded and the tyre may be
a write-off. (Usually are!). Anyhow,
I bore you with this as I’m
convinced that I’d never have got
the wheel off without the little
scissors jack which I carry to get
the car up the first few inches
until the Healey jack comes into
play. Just a suggestion…….</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Got home and
jacked car up to test pressure.
Steady at 520psi which, I recall, is
plenty. Stayed at 520 across rev
range. Dropped very slowly once
engine was off and dropped to zero
as I engaged/disengaged OD a few
times. Which is normal I think?</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Solenoid makes a
robust “click” when it should and
engages the OD when activated.</span></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">So what’s a
sensible “Step 2”??</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I have been urged
to check the setting of the Throttle
Switch (TS). Assuming that the
slippage returns (and why wouldn’t
it?), I’ll short the TS out to see if
that fixes it. If it does, I’ll check
the adjustment.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Suggestions would
be more than welcome……I do dread
having to take that box out again.
I’ve got a very adequate ramp and a
very strong volunteer(?) but,
regardless of all that, it’s still
quite a task. And, like a few of us,
I’m not as young as I once was. I’ve
always enjoyed the lines from the
manual which I reproduce, below.
“Gently ease”!?! </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thanks, Simon</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> Michael Salter <<a
href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 22, 2024
3:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon Lachlan <<a
href="mailto:simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Healeys <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys]
Overdrive pressure or clutch slip</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><u>Correct
diagnosis is 1/2 the repair!!</u></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">First you need to
confirm whether the clutch (on the
flywheel) or the overdrive is causing
the slippage. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To do this you
ABSOLUTELY MUST disable the
overdrive as a badly misadjuster
overdrive operating valve can
produce similar symptoms. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To do this I
would remove the overdrive operating
valve completely. (There are other
ways but this is absolutely
definitive).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now drive the car
up a long hill where you are amle to
use full throttle at around 3000 RPM
(maximum torque) for a few seconds.
If it is the clutch (on the
flywheel) that is causing the
slippage these operating conditions.
Test this a few times to be sure.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If there is no
slippage we have confirmed that the
overdrive clutch is at fault.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Step 1 completed.
Please report results. MS.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon., Apr.
22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. Simon
Lachlan via Healeys, <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You may recall the
very extended overdrive and
clutch saga last year.</span>
<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Long story
short(ish)…</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">OD was slipping in
and out depending on oil
temperature.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Correctly
diagnosed pressure. Checked
with gauge.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Attempted
rebuild…going only so far as</span>
<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">accumulator and
related seals.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Stymied as could
not get pump out. Turned out
to have been “fixed” at some
stage with some form of
“chemical metal” which was
coming loose/apart.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Took it up to OD
Spares who fixed it..new
housing etcetc</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Why not a new
clutch I thought? Sensible
while you’re in the area
looking at a 30+ yr old
item.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">New clutch…no
good. Noisy, wouldn’t</span>
<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">engage/disengage/play
at all.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Gearbox out again.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Refit clutch.
Presumed I’d made some
beginner’s mistake.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Refit gearbox…no
good. Same</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Can’t recall
whether I tried again. Lost
count and enthusiasm by now.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Turned out that
the new clutch kit was
defective. (Thanks Mirek)
(Genuine B&B from
AHSpares).</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">New one did work.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Saga over until
yesterday.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Same sort of
symptoms…..</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">All’s well for
first 10 or so miles. Then
the dreaded slippage(?)
starts. But it’s not quite
the same. Reminds me more of
a slipping clutch. (But NO
smell)</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Symptoms continue
if it’s in or out of OD.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Symptoms reduce at
speed.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Yes, plenty of
oil. Over the full mark.
Looks very clean. Pretty
sure it’s 40wt</span> <span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">non-detergent
topped up with 30wt
non-detergent. (Or
vice-versa).</span> <span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Am confident in
state of the filter, magnets
etc.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">No, I have not
pressure tested it yet and
yes, I dread restarting the
whole bloody process all
over again. I’m not sure I
can face taking the box out
again once, let alone
multiple times.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">What I want and
experience tells me I’m
unlikely to get is a miracle
cure!</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">One initial
question…..do OD relays
either work or not work? ie,
can the relay hover between
on and off</span> <span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">which might lead
to the OD coming in and out?
I think that could happen if
the switch is off but the
unit still hasn’t got the
message to disengage from
the bulkhead switch.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">And a
supplementary….how</span> <span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">do I bench test</span>
<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">the relay?</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Simon</span></p>
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