<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">The fact that it’s a BN1 chassis (no flanges on the shocks tower) is certainly a red flag and I think that anyone who caught that discrepancy should feel obligated to inform prospective buyers. If you’re gonna clone a 100M, at least do it on a BN2 chassis. Right? <div><br></div><div>Rick is spot on. “If a seller doesn’t want honest opinions, go offer it somewhere else….. “. </div><div><br></div><div><div>
<div>Richard Mayor</div><div>boyracer466@gmail.com</div><div><br></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 17, 2023, at 3:29 PM, HealeyRick <healeyrik@gmail.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Craig,<div><br></div><div>Ethical commenters on BaT need to walk a tightrope between helping bidders avoid a mistake or pooching a seller's sale. I won't comment on a sale of someone I know because I don't want to be accused of puffing their sale or OTOH submarining one that is being offered by a friend. If a seller doesn't want honest opinions, go offer it somewhere else and stay off BaT. Someone who benefitted from your advice should be thankful. It's not supposed to be a cheerleading squad every time a person puts a car up for auction.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy Healeydays,</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 3:52 PM Craig Cooper <<a href="mailto:craiginchico@gmail.com">craiginchico@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: large;">Re: Recent 100 M on BaT</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: large;"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: large;">Rick and Bob: I did it. I was the one who posted on BaT Nov.16 that there is a problem with the front shock towers and maybe half a dozen other issues that went unanswered. Being incredulous at the number of issues on the bottom of the car, considering how glowingly it was being presented, I showed the pictures to my fellow Healey 100 obsessed neighbor who said "Aren't those BN1 shock towers?" I had also recently watched the walk around video and simply couldn't contain myself. Maybe it would have been better to just reach out to the seller, but I didn't think of that until just now. Contrary to being savage, I think my remarks showed restraint. There is a lot more there, and I didn't mention any of the top side problems. (Bob, I laughed when I read your "ashtray delete" remark) I think the open discussion of shortcomings of cars listed on BaT benefits both the buyer and the seller. Imagine the embarrassment of a neophyte Healey 100 enthusiast having paid top dollar for this car entering it in a concours ("would be welcome and do well in any concours") and having it judged to AH Club USA concours standards, or more likely declined to be judged. Think he might seek legal remedy? I wouldn't want to be the guy who sold it to him.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: large;"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: large;"> </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 11:01 AM <<a href="mailto:healeys-request@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys-request@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Send Healeys mailing list submissions to<br> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:healeys-request@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys-request@autox.team.net</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:healeys-owner@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys-owner@autox.team.net</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Healeys digest..."<br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Mark Bradakis)<br> 2. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Bob Spidell)<br> 3. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (<a href="mailto:rfbegani@gmail.com" target="_blank">rfbegani@gmail.com</a>)<br> 4. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (David Masucci)<br><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Mark Bradakis <<a href="mailto:mark@bradakis.com" target="_blank">mark@bradakis.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>Cc: <br>Bcc: <br>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:56:44 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br>On 12/16/23 9:55 AM, Curtis Arndt via Healeys wrote:<br>> Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I volunteered to take over<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> the registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost of doing<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> so came up and we decided that the price of admission was way too high<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> for something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work involved.<br><br>Try running Team Net for 30+ years!<br><br>mjb.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Bob Spidell <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>><br>To: HealeyRick <<a href="mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com" target="_blank">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: Michael Oritt <<a href="mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com" target="_blank">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:43:03 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br><u></u><div>Rick,<br><br>Last I heard, the owner was working with BaT to present another listing for this car (or did it sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as having a replacement chassis and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have no issues with it; it is, essentially, an 'M equivalent' with a (likely) reduced price. The commenters did a potential buyer a favor; if s/he knows what s/he got, and is happy with it, that's great.<br><br>Bob<br><br><br><div>On 12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Bob,<div><br></div><div> As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report" for the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>Healey Marque<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>this 100M discussion has been really helpful and interesting. I think your comment " I was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide " raises a great question of what exactly is the 100M certificate certifying? Bill Meade has written an article on what needs to be presented to be certified. <a href="https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf </a> But it seems to me it mainly focuses on the body parts that it left the factory with. I find it interesting there's no necessity for pictures of the engine number. And even if all the body parts, carbs, and distributor aren't there, Bill says in the article "If some of these items are missing, let the Registry know. It normally does not prevent registration provided enough ID points are present." So my impression, which I'll try to verify with Bill, is the certification is focused on the question whether this is the car that left the factory that matches the BMIHT certificate saying it had a louvered hood and not so much on whether it still has all the original parts an M would have come with.</div><div> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I think one of the benefits of the BaT comments for buyers (and probably not so much for sellers) is pointing out major deficiencies with an offering. Some buyer might have paid way more this car than it would be worth if not for the "savage" comments.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy Healeydays</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 11:46 AM Bob Spidell <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br><br>How many times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry thing).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>From the late, great Gary Anderson:<br><br><a href="https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" target="_blank">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br><br><br><div>On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what might otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade. If so it was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Best--Michael Oritt</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31 AM Bob Spidell <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?<br><br>I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?').<br><br>I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 cars only 3,000 remain).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>bs<br><br><br><div>On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="auto">I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100. <div dir="auto">If the "M" designation involved significant performance modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.<div dir="auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.</div><div dir="auto">Just my opinion. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">M</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><pre id="m_-4437042785009811673m_3035444886437018827m_1603492253125454553m_-4413793566936237617m_-8948067483587624533tw-target-text" dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"><span lang="en" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">What makes a 100M?
Very good question and not easy to answer.
In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is significantly higher than the normal 100,
is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and
no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification for me, as would a
conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a
Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me
the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a little more
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes.
Josef Eckert
Germany
</span></pre><p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><div style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div style="margin: 0px;">An: "HealeyRick" <<a href="mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>></div><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;">Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><em>maybe</em>). The main problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br><br><br><div>On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div><blockquote><div dir="ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M? Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at auction. <div> </div><div>To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M cam in the lump!</div><div><div> </div><div>Happy Healeydays,</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05 PM Bob Spidell <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Excellent report, thank you.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like my car).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><em>should</em>be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.<br><br>Bob<br><br><br><br><div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div><blockquote><div style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; background-color: transparent;"><div>If you were following it recently, you might find my observations interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.</div><div> </div><div>It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount. </div><div> </div><div>What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes seem as they never existed. Along with that, where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall, you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position. </div><div> </div><div>I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end result. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power. </div><div> </div><div>The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someone else to decide. </div><div> </div><div>Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and I simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it's original. It does indeed look to have some age, so?</div><div> </div><div>I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis? </div><div> </div><div>With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the restoration, it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue. </div></div><div> </div><div>The Millers<br> <br>"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a test drive."</div></blockquote></div>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><br><a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeyrik@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeyrik@gmail.com</a><br><br></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><br><a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com</a><br><br></blockquote></div></blockquote><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><br><a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@gmail.com</a><br><br></blockquote></div></blockquote><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><br><a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeyrik@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeyrik@gmail.com</a><br><br></blockquote></div></blockquote><br></div><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <<a href="mailto:rfbegani@gmail.com" target="_blank">rfbegani@gmail.com</a>><br>To: <<a href="mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de" target="_blank">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>><br>Cc: <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:06:32 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br><div lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Dear Josef:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Your comments are the same in the USA especially in Florida where there are large numbers of retired people. My good friend and President of our British Car Club Hermann Schuller formerly of Germany has said that younger people want Japanese or European sports cars. It is the same for those who enjoy boating. Sailors today are 55 to 80 years old. I had to give away my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition at our summer home on Lake Michigan as younger boaters want speed and comfort. I still have another younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta Gorda, Florida and will continue to sail in accordance with the agreement with my wife that I will not sail alone. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Also, our British Car Club of SW Florida is very large and growing thanks to the efforts of Hermann who revived the club. He is a born salesman and a lover of old sports cars.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Bob Begani<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">67 BJ8<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Healeys <<a href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>josef-eckert--- via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, December 16, 2023 1:15 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bob Spidell <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>; Michael Oritt <<a href="mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com" target="_blank">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="margin: 0in;"><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">It's like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">They can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him either.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met through friends.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">But back to the 100M.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>There is also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just enough comfort.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">But younger people don't want these old cars at all.</span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.</span></span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin: 0in;"><span><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events which are expensive, but not inviting.</span></span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> </span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Josef Eckert</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Germany</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin: 0in;"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin: 0in;"> <u></u><u></u></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: David Masucci <<a href="mailto:dmasucci@charter.net" target="_blank">dmasucci@charter.net</a>><br>To: "<a href="mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de" target="_blank">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>" <<a href="mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de" target="_blank">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>><br>Cc: Bob Spidell <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>, Michael Oritt <<a href="mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com" target="_blank">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>>, Ahealey help <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:10:57 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br><div>All of this is inevitable, and not a bad thing. Let’s just continue to enjoy what we can while we can. There will be other passions that will entice follow-on generations to enjoy memories from their youth. <div><br></div><div>Dave<br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healeys <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;"><span lang="en"><span><span>As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>It's like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>They can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him either.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met through friends.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>But back to the 100M.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>There is also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just enough comfort.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>But younger people don't want these old cars at all.</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span><span>They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.<br></span></span></span></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;"><span lang="en"><span><span>Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events which are expensive, but not inviting.</span></span></span></span></div><p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;"> </span></p><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;">Josef Eckert</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;">Germany</span></div><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><div style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div style="margin: 0px;">An: "Michael Oritt" <<a href="mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com" target="_blank">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>></div><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br><br>How many times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry thing).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>From the late, great Gary Anderson:<br><br><a href="https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" target="_blank">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br><br><br><div>On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:</div><blockquote><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what might otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade. If so it was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);"> </div><div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Best--Michael Oritt</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31 AM Bob Spidell <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?<br><br>I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?').<br><br>I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 cars only 3,000 remain).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>bs<br><br><br><div>On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:</div><blockquote><div dir="auto">I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100. <div dir="auto">If the "M" designation involved significant performance modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.<div dir="auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.</div><div dir="auto">Just my opinion. </div><div dir="auto"> </div><div dir="auto">M</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><pre dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"><span lang="en" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is significantly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification for me, as would a conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a little more horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes. Josef Eckert Germany </span></pre><p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><div style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div style="margin: 0px;">An: "HealeyRick" <<a href="mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>></div><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><p style="margin: 0px;"> </p><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><em>maybe</em>). The main problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br><br><br><div>On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div><blockquote><div dir="ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M? Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at auction. <div> </div><div>To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M cam in the lump!</div><div><div> </div><div>Happy Healeydays,</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05 PM Bob Spidell <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Excellent report, thank you.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like my car).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><em>should</em><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.<br><br>Bob<br><br><br><br><div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div><blockquote><div style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; background-color: transparent;"><div>If you were following it recently, you might find my observations interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.</div><div> </div><div>It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount. </div><div> </div><div>What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes seem as they never existed. Along with that, where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall, you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position. </div><div> </div><div>I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end result. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power. </div><div> </div><div>The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someone else to decide. </div><div> </div><div>Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and I simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it's original. It does indeed look to have some age, so?</div><div> </div><div>I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis? </div><div> </div><div>With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the restoration, it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue. </div></div><div> </div><div>The Millers<br> <br>"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a test drive."</div></blockquote></div>_______________________________________________<br>Support<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://team.net/" target="_blank">Team.Net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><br><a 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text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Unsubscribe/Manage:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/boyracer466@gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/boyracer466@gmail.com</a></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>