<html><body>Notice that earlier forms of Amber and Crimson Castrol Brake Fluid did not use the word "synthetic" at all. The introduction of that word on later editions of the liquid revealed the fact that it was not a natural product, but like todays oils, man made. Were these early forms DOT 3 or DOT 4 or was this prior to the Dept. of Transports interference? My 1966 Austin-Healey 3000 came factory equipped with Castrol Amber. Hank<br><br><div class="reply-new-signature"></div><p>-----------------------------------------</p>From: "Christopher Moog via Healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net><br>To: healeys@autox.team.net<br>Cc: <br>Sent: Monday October 31 2022 7:48:02PM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Brake Fluid<br><br>
That about sums it up.<br><br><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/31/2022 7:56 PM, Simon Lachlan
via Healeys wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I
made myself some notes which I later submitted to our local AH mag.
Here’s the gist of them. May have posted this before….</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm;" type="1" start="1"><li class="MsoNoSpacing">
“<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">All
brake fluid is “synthetic”…it’s not a “natural”
product.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNoSpacing">
<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Most
synthetic fluids are NOT silicone. They are <span style="color:#222222;">polyethylene <u>glycol</u> ether
based.</span></span></li>
<li class="MsoNoSpacing">
<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">DOT 3 &
4, which can be mixed, are not silicone. They are
glycol.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNoSpacing">
<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">DOT 5,
which cannot be mixed with 3 or 4, is silicone. Can’t be mixed with
anything!</span></li>
<li class="MsoNoSpacing">
<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">DOT 5.1
is glycol based and cannot be mixed with DOT 5.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNoSpacing">
<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">DOT 5.1
can be mixed with DOT 3 or 4, as both are glycol based.</span></li>
</ol><p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">The word
“synthetic” began to appear when manufacturers worked out that it
made regular brake fluid sound more special ie they could charge us
more money for the same old stuff.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">DOT stands for
<b><u>D</u></b>ept. <b><u>O</u></b>f <b><u>T</u></b>ransport and
relates to the fluids’ boiling points. If a car brakes at high
speed, the brakes get hot. Some heat is carried away from the
brakes by the brake fluid. Bad news if the fluid boils! The faster
you’re going, the higher DOT you need. Higher DOT numbers indicate
higher boiling points for “Dry” fluid (has not absorbed any water)
and “Wet” fluids (has absorbed water). ie, the wetter it is, the
more problematic it becomes. Mixing 3 with 4 lowers the boiling
points and vice verca.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Simon</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="en-us">From:</span></b>
<span lang="en-us">Healeys <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><healeys-bounces@autox.team.net></a>
<b>On Behalf Of</b> Mark Donaldson<br><b>Sent:</b> 31 October 2022 22:06<br><b>To:</b> 'Bob Spidell' <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><bspidell@comcast.net></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Brake Fluid</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="en-nz">DOT5 and DOT 5.1 are <b>NOT</b> compatible.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="en-nz"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="en-nz">I’ve have been using Bel-Ray DOT5 SBF in my BN2 and my
tri-carb since 1992.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="en-nz">I’ve never had a problem.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="en-nz"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="en-nz">Mark</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="en-nz">Ardmore, NZ</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;" lang="en-nz"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="en-us">From:</span></b>
<span lang="en-us">Bob Spidell <<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bspidell@comcast.net</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 31 October 2022 5:35 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Brake Fluid</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-nz"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><span lang="en-nz">"... There is a newer Glycol Ester DOT5 ..."<br><br>
I think you're referring to 'DoT5.1' I also think it was
deliberately named so as to confuse the issue.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-nz">On 10/30/2022 8:05 PM,
Christopher Moog via Healeys wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><span lang="en-nz">I've used both. Currently prefer DOT4.<br><br>
Also everyone is speaking of DOT5 but there are now two different
DOT5s. The first is the older silicone based DOT5. There is a newer
Glycol Ester DOT5 that is compatible with DOT3 and DOT4. It has a
lower viscosity than the DOT3 and DOT4 so it works better in some
ABS systems. It also has a higher boiling point than DOT3 and DOT4.
Don't see an advantage in Healeys.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-nz">On 10/30/2022 10:00 PM,
Alan Seigrist wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><span lang="en-nz">The best selling point for Dot 4 is you can mix any Dot 4
or even Dot 3 if you need to fill up. As I understand it with
Dot 5 you should be careful to always use the same brand to fill up
if necessary.<br><br>
Also, neither Dot 5 not Dot 4 is great for sitting a long time, Dot
4 absorbs water, Dot 5 will push any water down into the
components.<br><br>
Dot 4, if the car is not used regularly, needs to be flushed every
couple of years.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-nz"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-nz">On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at
5:43 AM Michael MacLean <<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext">springer.mike51@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-nz">At this point in the
restoration I have a completely rebuilt brake system with all new
components and tubing. Now is the time to make the decision
to use DOT 4 or Silicone. What's the consensus, if there is
one?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-nz">Mike MacLean</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-nz"> </span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-nz"> </span></p>
</div>
<br><br>
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