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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I agree Simon. I too have lived in Europe and driven my Healey in Central European roadways. The fact that the victim too was familiar with those kinds of roadways sadly reduces Josef’s statements to an exhibit of prejudice and ageism. Josef has damaged his own reputation among all the rest of us Healey enthusiasts….. and for what purpose? Just to show his lack of sensitivity? You are right. It would have been better for him to not be airing his offensive opinions among those who might otherwise respect him.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-skip-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Simon Lachlan via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 7, 2022 4:38 AM<br><b>Cc:</b> 'Healeys' <healeys@autox.team.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Sad news - Rallyist Killed in Healey 100<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Speaking as one who drives in Europe and who has just returned from doing so in rural N.Ireland(!), I agree that some of the European roads require care and attention. But, surely the point is that, while you are entitled to your fairly offensive opinions, you should not be airing them here?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Healeys <<a href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>josef-eckert--- via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> 07 October 2022 07:39<br><b>To:</b> David Nock BCS <<a href="mailto:healeydoc@sbcglobal.net">healeydoc@sbcglobal.net</a>>; Jim Ryan <<a href="mailto:ryan@jimryan.com">ryan@jimryan.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Forum Healey <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Sad news - Rallyist Killed in Healey 100<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre id=tw-target-text><span class=y2iqfc><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Please only comment if you know the traffic situation here in Central Europe. I also do not allow myself</span></span><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br><span class=y2iqfc> to make any statements about the situation in the USA or Canada. We live here in narrow conurbations </span><br><span class=y2iqfc>and the traffic on country roads should not be underestimated. Places are usually a maximum of 10km apart.</span></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre id=tw-target-text><span class=y2iqfc><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The next time you are in Europe, drive a car on our European country roads or motorways and you will </span></span><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br><span class=y2iqfc>find that the traffic situations and road conditions are completely different than in a country as </span><br><span class=y2iqfc>large as the USA or Canada. As a driver, you are quickly overwhelmed if you are not used to it. </span><br><span class=y2iqfc>Unfortunately, we have a lot of older people here who can no longer cope with this traffic situation </span><br><span class=y2iqfc>and are extremely dangerous to themselves and their environment. In our area we have accidents like </span><br><span class=y2iqfc>this every month. And this described accident is typical. There is nothing wrong with being able to </span><br><span class=y2iqfc>drive a car as an older person. However, the accident described is the typical accident without </span><br><span class=y2iqfc>external influence - probably a health weakness caused by being overwhelmed, as we often have here. </span><br><span class=y2iqfc>Unfortunately, bystanders are often injured or even fatally injured in an accident.</span><br><br><span class=y2iqfc>Josef Eckert</span></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>PS: Those from the US who are commng over to the European Healey Event 2023 (Geiranger) may realise, they need to drive in different situations as they are used to, at least when passing Belgium, The Netherlands, France, Germany, Denmark.</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB>-----Original-Nachricht-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB>Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Sad news - Rallyist Killed in Healey 100<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB>Datum: 2022-10-07T00:31:18+0200<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB>Von: "David Nock BCS" <<a href="mailto:healeydoc@sbcglobal.net">healeydoc@sbcglobal.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB>An: "<a href="mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>" <<a href="mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>>, "Jim Ryan" <<a href="mailto:ryan@jimryan.com">ryan@jimryan.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'>So I assume that you know that his driving ability was the cause of the accident. Maybe someone or something was in the road and he tried to avoid it, or maybe there was a mechanical failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'>Are you will to give up your license at a set age no matter your physical health.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'>If you are assuming it was his age then how about you set an age that everyone has to stop driving and see how far that goes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'>I know many people well into there 80s that are perfectly safe drivers.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'>David Nock<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><strong><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></strong><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> josef-eckert--- via Healeys<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><strong><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Sent:</span></strong><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> Thursday, October 06, 2022 12:32 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><strong><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>To:</span></strong><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> Jim Ryan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><strong><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Cc:</span></strong><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> Forum Healey<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><strong><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Subject:</span></strong><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> Re: [Healeys] Sad news - Rallyist Killed in Healey 100<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Yes, please forward my comment to his family. </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>This person hasn´t recognizsed his limits and was a danger for other people on the road, drivers, bikers and cyclists, and even pedestrians, which are on our rural roads as well and also want to live and be not hurt by such a person.</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Sorry, no mercy at all from my side.</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>-----Original-Nachricht-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Sad news - Rallyist Killed in Healey 100<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Datum: 2022-10-06T21:15:03+0200<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Von: "Jim Ryan" <<a href="mailto:ryan@jimryan.com">ryan@jimryan.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>An: "<a href="mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>" <<a href="mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Well, THAT was harsh. You might want to forward that to his family just so they know how you feel about him. When exactly is it you think we should all stop driving? Is it 75? 80? I'm 71, I just want to get your advice on what age I'm endangering other people. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>That was easily the most insensitive posting I have ever seen on this list.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 11:52 AM josef-eckert--- via Healeys <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>To be honest, I have no respect for such a person, or better 82 years old fart who brought others in danger with his driving. Thankfully no other person was invoved and injured. <br><br>Its very common all over in central Europe to have these ditches, trees or even walls along country roads. That is how we love it. <br><br>For big money you can book in to take part in one of these leasure raĺlys, where you get all accomodation organised, only you have to come from a to b along. these rallys are mainly booked from those mainly elderly people who do not know what to do otherwise with their money, even they are completely overextended by driving an old classic car. <br><br>One should be wise enough to give up driving, when you are no more capable to drive. <br><br>I am only sorry about the wrecked Austin-Healey.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Josef Eckert<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>konigswinter/GERMANY<br><br><br> <br><br> <br><br> <br><br>-----Original-Nachricht----- <br><br>Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Sad news - Rallyist Killed in Healey 100 <br><br>Datum: 2022-10-06T10:31:49+0200 <br><br>Von: "Michael Oritt" <<a href="mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>> <br><br>An: "Michael Salter" <<a href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> <br><br> <br><br> <br><br> <br><br>Michael-- <br><br> <br><br>Most of them weren't "open" ditches--they were filled with rocks. <br><br>I fondly recall the time we missed a left-hander, went off the road, somehow hurtled OVER the ditch and landed in a tree in a fellow's front yard. As I remember it he stood there rather stunned while we cleared the branches out of the wheel openings, then hopped into the car and took off without much conversation. <br><br> <br><br>Best--Michael Oritt <br><br><br>On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 10:36 PM Michael Salter via Healeys <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: <br><br>"all the roads are surrounded by open drainage ditches." <br><br>Just like Newfoundland which for me was a major factor in giving up on the Targa there. <br><br> <br><br>M <br><br>On Wed., Oct. 5, 2022, 1:06 a.m. Alan Seigrist via Healeys, <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net">mailto:healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: <br><br>Italian roads are amazing for driving through beautiful countryside, but they are deadly because all the roads are surrounded by open drainage ditches. <br><br><br>On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 at 3:27 AM, Richard Kahn via Healeys <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: <br><br>I saw this yesterday. Very sad on so many levels. I was wondering if this is the drive a number of the Southern California Healey Association members are on in Europe at this moment. <br><br> <br><br>From: Healeys <<a href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> on behalf of Randy Hicks via Healeys <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> <br>Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 5:40 AM <br>To: Healey List <<a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> <br>Subject: [Healeys] Sad news - Rallyist Killed in Healey 100 <br><br> <br><br>Awful. <br><br> <br><br><a href="https://www.the-sun.com/news/6355269/british-expat-killed-horror-crash-rally-austin-healey/">https://www.the-sun.com/news/6355269/british-expat-killed-horror-crash-rally-austin-healey/</a> <br><br> <br><br>Randy <br><br>_______________________________________________ <br>Support Team.Net <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Suggested annual donation 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href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@gmail.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@gmail.com</a> <br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><br><a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/ryan@jimryan.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/ryan@jimryan.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Jim Ryan</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;color:black'>©¿©¬<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p style='margin:0in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><hr 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