<html><head><style> body {height: 100%; color:#000000; font-size:12pt; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;}</style></head><body><div>FWIW, I use copper anti-seize also.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div><br></div><div>----- Original Message -----<br>From: Max Byers <sbyers@ec.rr.com><br>To: healeys@autox.team.net<br>Sent: Mon, 11 May 2020 06:39:57 -0400 (EDT)<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Part III Knock offs<br></div><div><br></div><style><!--<br> <br> @font-face<br> {font-family:Wingdings;<br> panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}<br>@font-face<br> {font-family:"Cambria Math";<br> panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}<br>@font-face<br> {font-family:Calibri;<br> panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}<br>@font-face<br> {font-family:Tahoma;<br> panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}<br> <br> p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal<br> {margin:0in;<br> margin-bottom:.0001pt;<br> font-size:11.0pt;<br> font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}<br>a:link, span.MsoHyperlink<br> {mso-style-priority:99;<br> color:blue;<br> text-decoration:underline;}<br>a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed<br> {mso-style-priority:99;<br> color:purple;<br> text-decoration:underline;}<br>p<br> {mso-style-priority:99;<br> mso-margin-top-alt:auto;<br> margin-right:0in;<br> mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;<br> margin-left:0in;<br> font-size:12.0pt;<br> font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}<br>span.EmailStyle18<br> {mso-style-type:personal;<br> font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";<br> color:windowtext;}<br>span.EmailStyle19<br> {mso-style-type:personal-reply;<br> font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";<br> color:#1F497D;}<br>.MsoChpDefault<br> {mso-style-type:export-only;<br> font-size:10.0pt;}<br>@page Section1<br> {size:8.5in 11.0in;<br> margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}<br>div.Section1<br> {page:Section1;}<br>--></style><div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: #1f497d;" data-mce-style="color: #1f497d;">Relative motion between two<br>metallic surfaces in contact under high load can result in fretting of the<br>surfaces and possible stress corrosion cracking. Lubrication <b><i><u>is</u></i></b><br>necessary on the splines and conical surfaces of the wheel and hub to minimize<br>fretting. I’ve used only grease to lubricate the wheel and hub surfaces for 36<br>years and I do not leave the wheels on for years without cleaning and<br>re-lubrication. Never had a wheel seize on the hub, and the splines show no<br>signs of wear on the wheels or hubs after 80,000 miles – except that there is<br>some slight evidence of fretting on the inboard conical surfaces. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: #1f497d;" data-mce-style="color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: #1f497d;" data-mce-style="color: #1f497d;">Steve Byers</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: #1f497d;" data-mce-style="color: #1f497d;">HBJ8L/36666</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: #1f497d;" data-mce-style="color: #1f497d;">BJ8 Registry</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: #1f497d;" data-mce-style="color: #1f497d;">AHCA Delegate at Large</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: #1f497d;" data-mce-style="color: #1f497d;">Havelock, NC USA</span></p><div><div style="border: none; border-top: solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;" data-mce-style="border: none; border-top: solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';" data-mce-style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';" data-mce-style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';"> Healeys<br>[mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mirek Sharp<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:36 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Perry'<br><b>Cc:</b> healeys@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Part III Knock offs</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Perhaps a little tangential to the main<br>thread, and fully aware of the likelihood of me being accused of being pedantic<br>(which never happens on this list </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family: <br>Wingdings;" data-mce-style="font-family: <br>Wingdings;">J</span><span lang="EN-CA">), but regarding what to use on splines to<br>stop the wheel seizing on, I have never understood why the recommendation is<br>always for grease. Grease is designed to lubricate parts, whereas <br>the intent of applying it to the splines is to prevent them seizing on, not<br>reduce friction (i.e., lubricate). For that reason I have always used an<br>anti-seizing product, my favourite being Permatex Copper Anti-Seize Lubricant<br>(they call it a lubricant, but woe betide anyone who actually uses it to<br>lubricate). It should be used very sparingly, and I have never had an issue<br>with a wheel sizing on the splines. A very fine smear of grease on the<br>outside of the taper on the knock-off I agree is a good thing as the intent<br>there IS to lubricate. Also, providing it is used sparingly, I have never<br>had it seep out of the hub and onto the spokes, avoiding the (in my opinion)<br>terrible practice of smearing sillycone (mis-spell intended) over the spoke<br>heads inside the hub. Not to say grease does not work, it will, but why<br>not use a product designed for the purpose, and achieve clean spokes at the<br>same time?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Cheers, Mirek</span></p><div><div style="border: none; border-top: solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;" data-mce-style="border: none; border-top: solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';" data-mce-style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';" data-mce-style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';"> Healeys<br>[mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>gradea1@charter.net<br><b>Sent:</b> May-10-20 1:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Perry'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'healeys@autox.team.net'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Part III Knock offs</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Replacement parts-not NOS-what if the<br>knockoff bottoms out on the spline face before it tightens to the cone of<br>the wire wheel? A combination of measured errors on replacement parts<br>could create this condition-front to back. The knockoffs were made to tighten,<br>but not be whaled upon. If properly applied each side they are self<br>tightening and I normally spin them on hand tight, hit them with the rawhide<br>snug while still up in the air, and then wack them one more time on the ground<br>with the copper side of Thor.</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">One time in the early '70s I witnessed a<br>BMC "mechanic" whaling on a knockoff of the Healey, still hanging on<br>the lube rack, with a ten pound long handle sledge hammer! Flat ears? you<br>betcha.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">I would make sure that when mounted, the<br>front edge of the wheel is just forward of the inner depth of the knockoff so<br>that it actually contacts metal as it snugs it to the rear ring on the<br>hub. </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" data-mce-style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-CA">Also-grease-not<br>to much- but be sure splines, and ring of hub, and knockoff threads have a<br>light smear. I use HD wheel bearing grease so it doesn't seep out the<br>spoke nibs like moly or light grease would. Hank</span></p><p><span lang="EN-CA">-----------------------------------------</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" data-mce-style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-CA">From:<br>"Perry via Healeys" <br></span></p><div><br></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" data-mce-style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-CA">To: "rrengineer.mike@att.net"<br></span></p><div><br></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" data-mce-style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-CA">Cc: "healeys@autox.team.net"<br></span></p><div><br></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" data-mce-style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-CA">Sent: Sunday May 10 2020 9:01:21AM<br></span></p><div><br></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" data-mce-style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-CA">Subject: Re: [Healeys] The Saturday Night Rant - Part III Knock offs</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';" data-mce-style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Michael et al,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Contemplate the mechanical connections<br>between the hub extension, wire wheel hub and the knockoff. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">The hub extension is bolted to the axle<br>using tapered nuts that seat in the face of the extension. No rotational<br>movement.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">The wire wheel is connected to the hub<br>extension via the splines. The tolerances in the splines may allow for some<br>rotational movement but they have to be loose enough to get the wheel off the<br>extension. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">What else holds the wheel in place…the<br>knockoff. The cone in the knock off forces the wire wheel hub against the hub<br>extension, The contact interface is the tapers on the hub extension and the<br>wire wheel hub. You know the little area that we are frequently reminded to<br>apply a smear of grease to stop the little squeaky noise at low speed. If the<br>knock off is tight enough there is not movement here either.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">So Mike, if you see movement between the<br>knock off and the wire wheel, the knock off is not tight enough. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Suspect that the folks that developed knock<br>offs understood the problem of owners/mechanics not getting them tight enough<br>and used the handed (left and right) threads that self tighten. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Gentlemen, remember your Mother today!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Perry</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p><div style="border: none; border-top: solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;" data-mce-style="border: none; border-top: solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA">From: </span></b><span lang="EN-CA"><a href="mailto:rrengineer.mike@att.net" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:rrengineer.mike@att.net">Michael MacLean</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, May 10, 2020 12:57 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net">Healeys</a><br><b>Subject: </b>[Healeys] The Saturday Night Rant - Part III</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';" data-mce-style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';">At<br>my age (approaching this side of 70) I am on lock down at my house. I<br>even have my groceries delivered. I will only go out to eat at a drive through<br>with an N95 mask on. My Boston Terrier that goes with me does not wear<br>one. He refuses, but he is only three years old. So, being<br>sequestered to my domicile I have taken up the restoration of my BN2 with a<br>vengeance. I did not know I knew so many off color phrases. <br>Everything to be done on this car is difficult due to parts incompatibility,<br>parts fit, parts unavailability or just my general ignorance and/or<br>incompetence. This evening I finished mounting the right side front hub<br>with all new parts. I thought I had done a nice job. No lateral<br>play in the hub. Turns easily without binding. The correct amount<br>of shims after much trial and error. Disc brake conversion was mounted<br>and braided stainless steel flex brake lines hooked up at both ends. I<br>have yet to run the brake lines. Maybe next. This rant is<br>about the brand new Dayton wire wheels. I mounted the wire wheels which<br>have temporary used tires on them so I can move the car when it is down off the<br>dollies. After mounting the wheel I gave the two eared knockoff several<br>pretty good whacks. Now the moment of truth. I grabbed the wheel at<br>9 and 3 o'clock position and pulled straight back and forth. Yay! No<br>play, but when I rocked the wheel it moved slightly. I thought it was the<br>hub, but looking closely you can see the wire wheel hub rocking back and forth<br>in the knockoff! What!?! How hard are you supposed to hit those<br>knockoffs?</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';" data-mce-style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';">Mike<br>MacLean</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></body></html>