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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>It is truly amazing that after all the discussion -- and the proof of Merriam-Webster's dictionary and professional jewelers -- that there are folks who still insist the badges are cloisonné.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>I think I'll check out of this discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>Steve Byers</span><span style='color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>HBJ8L/36666</span><span style='color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>BJ8 Registry</span><span style='color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>AHCA Delegate at Large</span><span style='color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>Havelock, NC </span><span style='color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Craig & Sue Rice<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 25, 2018 5:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Roger Moment'<br><b>Cc:</b> healeys@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Paint type<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Badge Connoisseurs,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>After all the rhetoric on this subject, I can say that Roger Moment’s message is SPOT ON. My original BN1 & BN2 (original owner) badge lettering pockets are filled with a red glasslike transparent material.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>As far as changes to the “Concours Guidelines”, I might suggest that the word “flat” be changed to “slightly curved”. I calculated my original BN1 & BN2 badges plus other original (not aftermarket) badges in my inventory at a 60 to 85 inch radius to fit the shroud profile. I would think the badges were manufactured with this curvature before the chrome plating and <span style='color:red'>CLOISONNÉ</span> process.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Craig Rice<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>BN1 & BN2 Original Owner <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger Moment<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2018 8:06 AM<br><b>To:</b> Curtis Arndt <cnaarndt@gmail.com>; gary brierton <gbrierton@hotmail.com><br><b>Cc:</b> Sean and Tricia Johnson <healey@communitynet.org>; Michael Salter <michael.salter@gmail.com>; Healey List <healeys@autox.team.net>; Tom, Kaye Kovacs <fntune@charter.net>; carol hodgman <carolhodgman@gmail.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Paint type<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>To all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I’m not clear about who wrote what, but <strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>ALL Healey wing badges </span></strong></span><em><b><u><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>WERE</span></u></b></em><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> CLOISONNÉ (</span></strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>up to late BJ8s, starting in Dec. 1966, as stated in the current Guidelines<strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>)!!!!!!!! </span></strong>You can tell this because the red lettering color is transparent and you can see through to the backing.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>This is why you cannot just repair the red on a badge. The Cloisonné process requires high heat and would destroy the Cr plating – they do the lettering first and plate with Cr afterwards.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I have had manly original badges restored by P-D Enamels in England. Yes, their name has “Enamels” in it, but the process they use to replicate original badges like the Healey winged ones is Cloisonné. They have seen a very large number of these and have restored them exactly as-new. They agree that the red ‘fill’ was Cloisonné!!! They restore them with this material.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Look at old defective badges. Where the color has started to separate from the backing it looks darker. This is because you are looking through a glass and can identify separation from the backing. Where it is missing in places it looks exactly like chipped out glass, not paint. It is much thicker than paint.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On the late BJ8s they went to paint. This looks totally different!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The Guidelines as currently written are correct!! <strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>DO NOT CHANGE!!!!!!!!</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>I’ll ‘go to the mat’ on this!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Roger<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Curtis Arndt <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:42 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> gary brierton <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Cc:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Healey List ; Michael Salter ; Roland Wilhelmy ; Roger Moment <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Re: [Healeys] Paint type<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Gary, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>With all due respect, sorry but you are mistaken on a number of points. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Michael Salter... Please make this my first revision for the next Concours Guidelines update. </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>First off, the badges were never Cloisonne, they are red enamel. Yes, the Concours Guidelines state that they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines are WRONG. I am officially submitting an update for the next Concours Guidelines revision.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmail-fontstyle0><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222'>Copied from the Concours Guidelines...</span></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmail-fontstyle0><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black'>"All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey "wings" mounted on the front between the grille and bonnet opening, with <u>red cloisonné lettering</u> inset in chrome."</span></i></span><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Change to read<i> </i></span><b><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>"</span></i></b><span class=gmail-fontstyle0><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black'>red enamel lettering</span></i></b></span><b><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>"</span></i></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>This is where the confusion first arises!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Secondly, all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from the very first BN1 in 1953 through the BJ8 at chassis no. 39975. After that they were indeed painted red. Also copied from the Concours Guidelines...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmail-fontstyle0><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black'>"BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date – December 1966) had a similar badge that <u>was not cloisonné but was painted red instead of the cloisonné</u>.</span></i></span><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></i><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black'>These later badges have a smooth background instead of the pebbled background of <span class=gmail-fontstyle0>the enameled badges." </span></span></i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Change to read<i> <b>"</b></i></span><span class=gmail-fontstyle0><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black'>was not enamel but was painted red instead of the enamel."</span></i></b></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years experience who owns Maxwell Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that automotive badges are enamel and NOT Cloisonne. Karla is the premier automotive emblem restorer in the US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach participants, is a neighbor and personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a number of badges personally for me, and I have done some Bakelite restoration work for Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was working on. Oh, and Karla's business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell Cloisonne. In the UK the best known badge restorer is PD Enamels, NOT PD Cloisonne.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I hope that this clears things up once and for all.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>This is from Karla's FAQ section of her website... <a href="http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html">http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div id=gmail-content1><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0B1A7A'>FAQ... How was my emblem created? </span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>These enameled emblems are often, <b><span style='background:yellow'>incorrectly</span>, referred to as <i>cloisonné</i></b>. Cloisonné is an enamel process in which separate bands of metal are bent then applied to a base. These labor intensive bands encase the enamel and create the design. <span style='background:yellow'>I have yet to see an automobile emblem done with cloisonné.</span> The process that is used is called <i>champlevé</i> (pronounced shomp´-leh-vay).</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The champlevé technique involves applying enamel into depressions in the base metal. These depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the case of automobile emblems, die stamped. The stamping process can also include the beautiful design work that shows under transparent enamels.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Historically the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to any shiny color. The correct terminology is <i>vitreous</i> [glass] enamel. It is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F. Enamel can be obtained as opaque, translucent or transparent. The colors are created by the addition of metallic oxides to the glass.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton <<a href="mailto:gbrierton@hotmail.com">gbrierton@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>OK...let's try and clear this up. As I understand it, the "flat wings with the Austin-Healey script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't know when it stopped), had red paint of unknown shade in the etched out lettering. Along came the larger badges with MKII or whatever, in </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>cloisonne</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>. THEN, to really screw us up, those badges returned to red paint of unknown shade, seemingly during BJ8 production. As was true with almost everything involving our cars, the exact change VIN number for all of this is largely indeterminate, at least as far as trim pieces are concerned...oh, and some major body parts, like wings with one or two signaling lights, swag lines, whatever. Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!) state that the guiding principle in assembling our cars was "use up what was on hand".<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I claim no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with their owners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Take it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, et. al.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>😁</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br><a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/cnaarndt@gmail.com" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/cnaarndt@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>