<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:Calibri
}
--></style></head>
<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Wow! That video took me back to my college algebra days. Although I was attracted to science, then business, ultimately I decided to study law and become an attorney. I really hated those complicated convoluted algebraic equations. <br><br>Now, to add fuel to the fire. I believe that my engine builder has been using bronze valve guides in my race motors for over 30 years and I have never had a problem. Is that possible now that I've read all these damning posts about bronze valve guides?<br><br>Richard<br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 10:49:06 -0400<br>From: michaelsalter@gmail.com<br>To: pajtamuvek@gmail.com<br>CC: healeys@autox.team.net<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] valve guides<br><br><div dir="ltr"><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">Ok Gergo, <br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">We are making progress....<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">From your answer I believe that you would concur that both the ID and the OD of an unrestrained guide would increase as it is heated . i.e. thermal expansion.<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">However, you conclude that solids are, to quote, "not that "solid" as they may look". <br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">From that statement I presume that you are indicating that the solid material of the guide distorts or deforms because it is constrained by the hole in the cylinder head.<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">Now I would ask you to refer to this video from Purdue University College of Technology: <br><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6D3QgdO5Bk" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6D3QgdO5Bk</a><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">If you are not into the mathematics just skip to 6:45 for the result.<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">371,000 lbs (168tonnes)!!!<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">Now check the structural strength of bronze... of course it varies a little with different alloys but a yield strength of 650 Mpa ( 94274 p.s.i.) is typical.<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">The mathematics required to use these numbers to calculate the forces required to radially crush a cylinder (i.e. our valve guide) are a little complex but be assured the numbers are MASSIVE.<br>So, if the wall of our guide is presumed to have an area of only 600 sq mm. (0.1 sq in), it would take 4276 kg (9427lbf)to distort or deform it. <br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">Now, armed with that knowledge please read my <a href="http://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=384" target="_blank">blog post</a> carefully and you may have an inkling for why I strongly advise against the use of bronze guides in a cast iron head.<br><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">Michael S<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br><br><br><br></div></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 3:25 AM, Austin Healey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pajtamuvek@gmail.com" target="_blank">pajtamuvek@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Yes. This is happening. The head material expands less, the guide expand more, and thus it has to go somewhere. Metals are not that "solid" as they might look like.<div><br></div><div>Gergo</div></div><div class="ecxHOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">2015-03-29 4:09 GMT+02:00 Michael Salter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com" target="_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">So Gergo, <br>if I understand you correctly in a situation where the guide was not installed in a head and it was then heated the outside diameter and for that matter the inside diameter of the guide would increase due to thermal expansion....correct?<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">However, the difference, when the guide is installed in the head is that the head material, i.e. the hole that the guide is installed in, would prevent the guide from expanding or, expressed another way, because the hole in the head would not increase in diameter as much as the guide would increase in diameter the head material would effectively compress the guide and prevent it from expanding..... correct?<br><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">Michael S<br></div></div><div><div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Austin Healey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pajtamuvek@gmail.com" target="_blank">pajtamuvek@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Yes it does. The material has to expand somewhere. It cant go in the oposite direction.<div><br></div><div>g</div></div><div><div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">2015-03-28 20:12 GMT+01:00 Michael Salter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com" target="_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">Hi Gergo, <br>just so I'm clear...you are suggesting that the internal diameter of the guide will get smaller as it heats up therefore that extra clearance is required?<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">Michael S<br></div></div><div><div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 3:08 AM, Austin Healey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pajtamuvek@gmail.com" target="_blank">pajtamuvek@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Bronze guides expand more when they heat up. Thats why You have to use greater clearance. But when they work, the clearance will be the same. Worn out guides have two negative side effects: oil consumption, and premature wear on the valves as they dissipate heat slower due to rocking on the valve seat. The exhaust guides are more prone to oil consumption, exhaust guides are more prone to overheating.<div><br></div><div>Gergo</div></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote"><div><div>2015-03-27 20:01 GMT+01:00 Michael Salter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com" target="_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br></div></div><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">Hi Raymond, <br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">The factory specification calls for 0.0025 to 0.0015 clearance for the inlets and 0.002 to 0.001 clearance for the exhausts if you are using cast iron guides however if you are using bronze THAT WILL NOT WORK!!!<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">To be safe with bronze guides you will have to hog them out to about 0.006" clearance..which means there is really no point in replacing them.<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">I would point you to <a href="http://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=384" target="_blank">this article</a> on my blog...been there done that...<br><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">Michael S<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;">BN1 #174<br></div></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote"><span>On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 2:17 PM, RAYMOND SMITHSON <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rjsmithson@shaw.ca" target="_blank">rjsmithson@shaw.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br></span><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><span><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;">I am rebuilding my 3000 cylinder head and have found the inlet valve stems have .008" clearance but the exhaust stems have only .002" clearance. Does anyone know if this is common?</div></div><br></span>_______________________________________________<br>
Support Team.Net <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Suggested annual donation $12.75<br>
Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href="http://www.team.net/forums" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
<a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br>
Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter%40gmail.com" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><span><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><i><span style="color:black;">If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.</span></i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div></div>
</font></span></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Support Team.Net <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Suggested annual donation $12.75<br>
Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href="http://www.team.net/forums" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net" target="_blank">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
<a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br></div></div>
Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/pajtamuvek%40gmail.com" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/pajtamuvek@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><i><span style="color:black;">If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.</span></i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><i><span style="color:black;">If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.</span></i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="ecxgmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><i><span style="color:black;">If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.</span></i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/mayorrichard@hotmail.com</div> </div></body>
</html>