[Healeys] gas/alcohol

Tue Sep 3 04:07:29 MDT 2024

Around here, 93 octane cost $1 more a gallon than regular (87 octane).

Bob Haskell
Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar

On 9/2/24 15:19, Bob Spidell via Healeys wrote:
> CORRECTION: Hank is correct in that ethanol isn't necessarily used to 
> boost octane in pump gas--my assumption was incorrect--it's only added 
> because of the federal mandate. It can raise octane, though the effect 
> is probably minimal (the Penn State article didn't give the blend 
> ratio, but 102 over 100 isn't much regardless). You can refine 
> 100-octane gas from crude, but it would probably cost $10/gallon or 
> more; and running E85 allows compression ratios to be raised for 
> better efficiency and performance. That's why TEL was developed: to 
> cheaply increase fuel detonation resistance while simultaneously 
> poisoning every living thing on the planet.
>
> In digging further, I came across this, which pretty much acknowledges 
> what a lot of us suspected: ethanol in gas causes vapor lock, and not 
> just in our Healeys. Also surprising to me, as ethanol has a lower 
> vapor pressure than gasoline--I'd assumed the opposite--but blending 
> them increases vapor pressure.
>
> "... Gasoline vapor lock causes engines to stall, mostly when the car 
> is in traffic and temperature is rising high. Similarly when a car is 
> parked for a short period of time the heated motor won´t start. The 
> higher the temperature, the higher the altitude, the more likely it is 
> that Gasoline vapors build a vapor lock, preventing the fuel in the 
> line from moving to the engine."
>
> https://www.grabner-instruments.com/-/media/ametekgrabnerinstruments/files/pdfs/application--vapor-pressure--vl-ratio-of-gasolineethanol-blends.pdf?la=en&revision=00f78dc8-029e-4481-ba85-e640bdc7e338
>
> Note there is some effort to change all gas to 93-octane only, which 
> would accommodate all engines and simplify the refining and delivery 
> process. We can hope, I guess.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On 9/2/2024 10:32 AM, Bob Spidell via Healeys wrote:
>> "Ethanol boosts the octane number of fuel, which helps prevent 
>> pre-ignition knock. Incidentally, the octane rating system for fuels 
>> was originally developed by Penn State chemist Russell Marker in the 
>> 1920s. The octane rating (Anti-Knock Index, AKI) of normal unleaded 
>> gasoline in the United States is 87. The octane rating of pure 
>> ethanol is 100. What's interesting is that when ethanol is blended 
>> with gasoline, it performs as if its octane rating is 112, making 
>> ethanol a very effective octane booster when used in gasoline. High 
>> octane is one reason why NASCAR uses ethanol for their 
>> high-compression racing engines. Engines that are designed and 
>> optimized for ethanol fuel have the potential to run at higher 
>> efficiencies than engines designed for and using gasoline."
>>
>> https://extension.psu.edu/fuel-ethanol-hero-or-villain
>>
>> On 9/2/2024 10:19 AM, Hank Leach wrote:
>>> Ethanol will not raise the octane level of fuel-only the "tanes" 
>>> shown on the chart affect boost and the higher the tane the more 
>>> expensive the fuel.
>>> If you procure fuel from an airport spout for road use there is a 
>>> hefty fine (about $50K I think) and maybe jail time,  so they won't 
>>> sell you any.  If clear gas (no eth) is not available you are stuck 
>>> with ethanol. Hank
>>>
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> From: "Bob Spidell via Healeys" <healeys at autox.team.net>
>>> Reply-To: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell at comcast.net>
>>> To: <healeys at autox.team.net>
>>> Sent: September 2, 2024 at 10:02 AM PDT
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] gas/alcohol
>>> Living in California, I have been running 'gasahol' in all my cars 
>>> longer than some. Best we can usually get is 91-octane; I was able 
>>> to buy higher-octane--93 and 100--fuel at times but, guess what: the 
>>> octane was boosted with ethanol (added water to some and measured 
>>> before and after; don't recall the exact mix but IIRC I figured it 
>>> was 10% ethanol; standard from the pump seems to be about 8%).
>>>
>>> I have about 140K miles on my BJ8 running mostly 91-octane gasahol, 
>>> and there have been no negative effects save some 'vapor lock*' on 
>>> starting when hot. I replaced the hard line to carburettor flex line 
>>> that had been on the car for a couple decades and, except for it 
>>> being a little stiff there was no visible degradation. About 8 years 
>>> ago I put a new carb jet in pure/denatured ethanol and there is also 
>>> no visible degradation. Rubber components sold since the 
>>> introduction of gasahol are impervious to the stuff. Theoretically, 
>>> due to its oxygen content gasahol could cause an engine to run a 
>>> little lean, and at least one knowledgeable person recommends 
>>> changing to rich carb needles, but both my cars have long since been 
>>> tuned to run on it with std. needles. The BJ8 was rebuilt to 
>>> standard 9.1:1 compression ratio, the BN2 is a 100M and has the 
>>> 'high compression' 8.7:1 pistons. I've been told Healeys will run 
>>> fine on 91 up to about 11:1 compression, depending on the cam and 
>>> timing.
>>>
>>> Good luck trying to 'steal' from an airport--when I owned airplanes 
>>> I would occasionally get some--but the fuel providers aren't likely 
>>> to be enthusiastic about selling it to you. Technically, you would 
>>> owe 'road tax,' and the stuff is full of TEL and highly toxic (don't 
>>> breathe any of it and don't let it get on your skin).
>>>
>>> * not technically 'vapor lock,' but the alcohol vaporizes and 
>>> cavitates the fuel next to the exhaust manifold, causing some 
>>> stumbling for a mile or so.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> On 9/2/2024 7:45 AM, carl and gerry rubino via Healeys wrote:
>>>
>>>     A message from Canada. For the last 30 years I have been running
>>>     my 100/6 on 93 gas with no alcohol.
>>>     In its infinite wisdom our government is going to legislate
>>>     alcohol in all grades of gas.
>>>     Other than stealing gas from an airport any recommendations to
>>>     deal with this?
>>>
>>
>>
>
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