[Healeys] Healeys Digest, Vol 16, Issue 227

Fri Sep 22 14:23:50 MDT 2023

Start the car with the bonnet open put a blanket over on top of the bonnet and block all the light, look for arcing around the wires  and distributer. Easy check good luck. 
Dave Walsh

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On Thursday, September 21, 2023, 5:22 PM, healeys-request at autox.team.net <healeys-request at autox.team.net> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: update on shutdown issue (Kees Oudesluijs)
  2. Re: update on shutdown issue (Michael Salter)
  3. Re: update on shutdown issue (jomar healey)
  4. Re: update on shutdown issue (Robert Markovich)
  5. Re: update on shutdown issue (Robert Markovich)
  6. Re: update on shutdown issue (Robert Markovich)
  7. Re: update on shutdown issue (Tom Felts)
  8. Re: update on shutdown issue (Robert Markovich)
  9. Re: update on shutdown issue (Jonathan Einhorn)

Is it a gradual or instat shut down?
 Kees

 Op 20-9-2023 om 17:39 schreef Bob Spidell:

 re: "The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas."

 Which type/brand of pump do you have? I've seen pumps, both points and SS, do some unexplainable things. Another thought: something in the tank that intermittently blocks the pickup. We bought a used tank for our BN2 and experienced erratic behavior from the engine; my dad finally tracked it down to a pinhole leak near where the pickup was soldered to the tank. Dad surmised the flux used to facilitate the soldering eventually etched the hole (the tank was otherwise in good shape).

 bs

 On 9/20/2023 7:46 AM, Tom Felts via Healeys wrote:

   Since having the car towed home I have checked all connections in the ignition system, pulled the distributor base plate out and cleaned it--the the two pieces were very tight.  I have let her run in the garage for long periods of time and she has not shut down again so I haven't been able to check spark.  
  When it did shut down, it wouldn't take long before she would start again then shut down.  Then start, then shut down.   
  I know my trial and error method wasn't the best approach, but without being able to check spark it seemed appropriate to change out components.   
  Tell me if my analysis is correct on this.  I thought it might be a fuel supply issue.  So---I pulled the float bowl covers and all was ok there--also pulled and cleaned the carbs.  If the float bowl jets were stuck in a closed position it would get no gas and eventually shut down---but---both would have to stick so each carb wouldn't get gas.  this seems like an unlikely condition. 
  If they were stock in the open position it would be dumping gas out of the overflow tubes---so, again, unlikely since it would still run.  I have already changed fuel filter and blew out the line.  The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas.  So--I have basically ruled out fuel starvation as a cause.     in the garage she sits and purrs forever with no shutdown------so, as I mentioned, I can't ch spark   

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 I've had problem Tom.Traced it to ignition by installing a spark tester (photo) semi permanently. When the engine stopped, left the ignition on lifted the bonnet and cranked with the solenoid button.. no spark. After pouring cold water over the coil it immediately restarted.However... pretty sure you have changed the coil. ☹️
M

On Wed., Sep. 20, 2023, 10:59 a.m. Tom Felts via Healeys, <healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:

 Since having the car towed home I have checked all connections in the ignition system, pulled the distributor base plate out and cleaned it--the the two pieces were very tight.  I have let her run in the garage for long periods of time and she has not shut down again so I haven't been able to check spark. 
When it did shut down, it wouldn't take long before she would start again then shut down.  Then start, then shut down.  
I know my trial and error method wasn't the best approach, but without being able to check spark it seemed appropriate to change out components.  
Tell me if my analysis is correct on this.  I thought it might be a fuel supply issue.  So---I pulled the float bowl covers and all was ok there--also pulled and cleaned the carbs.  If the float bowl jets were stuck in a closed position it would get no gas and eventually shut down---but---both would have to stick so each carb wouldn't get gas.  this seems like an unlikely condition.
If they were stock in the open position it would be dumping gas out of the overflow tubes---so, again, unlikely since it would still run.  I have already changed fuel filter and blew out the line.  The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas.  So--I have basically ruled out fuel starvation as a cause.   in the garage she sits and purrs forever with no shutdown------so, as I mentioned, I can't ch spark _______________________________________________
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 I'm late to this but I aaume the wire in the distributor is not frayed.  I had this on my BJ8 and whenver the vacuum advanced activate it caused the wire to short on the plate and the negined died.  If this has been covered I apologize.
Joe#923
    On Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 03:37:13 PM EDT, Alan Garrison via Healeys <healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:  

Before you go out on a test run I suggest you purchase a can of “Dry-Gas”.  If the car shuts down again then add the Dry-Gas and drive on to see if the problem re-occurs.

The problem may be water in the gas tank either from condensation or from the underground fuel tanks at your gas station. This has happened to me a few times over the past 50+ years of ownership with the same symptoms you described.

Good luck!

Alan

‘59 BN6

From: Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Tom Felts via Healeys
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 10:50 AM
To: healeys <healeys at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] update on shutdown issue

Continued----I will next take her out on the road--and if she shut down on me again I'll try to get a quick spark test.  Other than what I've done, not sure what happens next if she shuts down and I have spark.  There is an auto-electric place near me--might consider taking here there.

Tom

From: "Tom Felts" <tomfelts at windstream.net>
To: "healeys" <healeys at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 10:46:07 AM
Subject: update on shutdown issue

Since having the car towed home I have checked all connections in the ignition system, pulled the distributor base plate out and cleaned it--the the two pieces were very tight.  I have let her run in the garage for long periods of time and she has not shut down again so I haven't been able to check spark. 

When it did shut down, it wouldn't take long before she would start again then shut down.  Then start, then shut down.  

I know my trial and error method wasn't the best approach, but without being able to check spark it seemed appropriate to change out components.  

Tell me if my analysis is correct on this.  I thought it might be a fuel supply issue.  So---I pulled the float bowl covers and all was ok there--also pulled and cleaned the carbs.  If the float bowl jets were stuck in a closed position it would get no gas and eventually shut down---but---both would have to stick so each carb wouldn't get gas.  this seems like an unlikely condition.

If they were stock in the open position it would be dumping gas out of the overflow tubes---so, again, unlikely since it would still run.  I have already changed fuel filter and blew out the line.  The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas.  So--I have basically ruled out fuel starvation as a cause.  

in the garage she sits and purrs forever with no shutdown------so, as I mentioned, I can't ch spark

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  Couple more thoughts: 1) There’s a thin black braided ground wire beneath the condenser inside the distributor if that and the points are still in place. If the distributor is the stock Lucas unit, even with Pertronix, that wire may still exist; worth checking for frayed ends. Result: the car runs fine, then stalls as heat and electrical resistance build. Then the car will restart and run fine—for a few minutes—until the same thing happens again. This happened to me until I found the frayed wire. 2) The distributor isn’t advancing properly due to broken advance springs or some other issue. 3) The fuel pump isn’t delivering enough fuel and/or the filter is clogged. All of these are easy to check …

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On Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 3:14 PM, Jim Ryan <ryan at jimryan.com> wrote:

I'm a little confused. The car will start and run an idle seemingly forever. But if you start it up and drive it, it dies? Or are you just getting into it and revving the engine a bit and it dies?
Sorry Tom, if I missed something, I think I read the whole thread.. 
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023, 11:03 AM Tom Felts via Healeys <healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:

 Since having the car towed home I have checked all connections in the ignition system, pulled the distributor base plate out and cleaned it--the the two pieces were very tight.  I have let her run in the garage for long periods of time and she has not shut down again so I haven't been able to check spark. 
When it did shut down, it wouldn't take long before she would start again then shut down.  Then start, then shut down.  
I know my trial and error method wasn't the best approach, but without being able to check spark it seemed appropriate to change out components.  
Tell me if my analysis is correct on this.  I thought it might be a fuel supply issue.  So---I pulled the float bowl covers and all was ok there--also pulled and cleaned the carbs.  If the float bowl jets were stuck in a closed position it would get no gas and eventually shut down---but---both would have to stick so each carb wouldn't get gas.  this seems like an unlikely condition.
If they were stock in the open position it would be dumping gas out of the overflow tubes---so, again, unlikely since it would still run.  I have already changed fuel filter and blew out the line.  The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas.  So--I have basically ruled out fuel starvation as a cause.   in the garage she sits and purrs forever with no shutdown------so, as I mentioned, I can't ch spark _______________________________________________
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Might the brass floats also have pinholes, causing them to fill with fuel and preventing them from rising as they should? The new nitro phyll floats solve that issue. If not, I’d suspect the distributor (internal ground wire or advence weights). Might also be worth buying another Pertronix module and a 3-ohm coil (always smart to have a spare along anyway) and see if it isn’t one of those. Still, it sounds more and more like an advance problem if the engine won’t reverse. 

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On Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 2:49 PM, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:

 re: "The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas."

 Which type/brand of pump do you have? I've seen pumps, both points and SS, do some unexplainable things. Another thought: something in the tank that intermittently blocks the pickup. We bought a used tank for our BN2 and experienced erratic behavior from the engine; my dad finally tracked it down to a pinhole leak near where the pickup was soldered to the tank. Dad surmised the flux used to facilitate the soldering eventually etched the hole (the tank was otherwise in good shape).

 bs

 On 9/20/2023 7:46 AM, Tom Felts via Healeys wrote:

  Since having the car towed home I have checked all connections in the ignition system, pulled the distributor base plate out and cleaned it--the the two pieces were very tight.  I have let her run in the garage for long periods of time and she has not shut down again so I haven't been able to check spark.  
  When it did shut down, it wouldn't take long before she would start again then shut down.  Then start, then shut down.   
  I know my trial and error method wasn't the best approach, but without being able to check spark it seemed appropriate to change out components.   
  Tell me if my analysis is correct on this.  I thought it might be a fuel supply issue.  So---I pulled the float bowl covers and all was ok there--also pulled and cleaned the carbs.  If the float bowl jets were stuck in a closed position it would get no gas and eventually shut down---but---both would have to stick so each carb wouldn't get gas.  this seems like an unlikely condition. 
  If they were stock in the open position it would be dumping gas out of the overflow tubes---so, again, unlikely since it would still run.  I have already changed fuel filter and blew out the line.  The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas.  So--I have basically ruled out fuel starvation as a cause.     in the garage she sits and purrs forever with no shutdown------so, as I mentioned, I can't ch spark   

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Again, this sounds like a bad ground wire connection in the distributor (you have to pull the condenser to see it—and I’d change condenser out while you’re at it). The same exact thing happened to me on the 100/6 I owned some years ago and I tried all the same things as I thought it was in the fuel system (don’t we all!). Finally I happened to pull the condenser on the roadside and saw that little black ground wire hanging on by a few strands. After going through the entire fuel system! Same exact symptoms. Crimping on a new connector and battening the wire down solved the problem instantly. A buildup of heat and electrical resistance compromising that bad ground wire connection explains why the car will run fine, then stall, restart after a few minutes as things cool, then crap out again as heat and resistance build again. 

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On Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 11:24 AM, Tom Felts via Healeys <healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:

 Since having the car towed home I have checked all connections in the ignition system, pulled the distributor base plate out and cleaned it--the the two pieces were very tight.  I have let her run in the garage for long periods of time and she has not shut down again so I haven't been able to check spark. 
When it did shut down, it wouldn't take long before she would start again then shut down.  Then start, then shut down.  
I know my trial and error method wasn't the best approach, but without being able to check spark it seemed appropriate to change out components.  
Tell me if my analysis is correct on this.  I thought it might be a fuel supply issue.  So---I pulled the float bowl covers and all was ok there--also pulled and cleaned the carbs.  If the float bowl jets were stuck in a closed position it would get no gas and eventually shut down---but---both would have to stick so each carb wouldn't get gas.  this seems like an unlikely condition.
If they were stock in the open position it would be dumping gas out of the overflow tubes---so, again, unlikely since it would still run.  I have already changed fuel filter and blew out the line.  The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas.  So--I have basically ruled out fuel starvation as a cause.   in the garage she sits and purrs forever with no shutdown------so, as I mentioned, I can't ch spark _______________________________________________
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I'm using the new floats, have a new 3ohm coil, and have changed the Pertronix to a new one.  This is crazy----but after my last attempt by cleaning and oiling the baseplate of the distributor, she has sat at idle for a loooooong tie and has not shut down.  I'm still shooting in the dark, I'll admit, and if she shuts down again I'll do a quick spark test.
Tom
From: "Robert Markovich via Healeys" <healeys at autox.team.net>
To: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell at comcast.net>, "healeys" <healeys at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 5:41:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] update on shutdown issue

Might the brass floats also have pinholes, causing them to fill with fuel and preventing them from rising as they should? The new nitro phyll floats solve that issue. If not, I’d suspect the distributor (internal ground wire or advence weights). Might also be worth buying another Pertronix module and a 3-ohm coil (always smart to have a spare along anyway) and see if it isn’t one of those. Still, it sounds more and more like an advance problem if the engine won’t reverse. 

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On Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 2:49 PM, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:

 re: "The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas."

 Which type/brand of pump do you have? I've seen pumps, both points and SS, do some unexplainable things. Another thought: something in the tank that intermittently blocks the pickup. We bought a used tank for our BN2 and experienced erratic behavior from the engine; my dad finally tracked it down to a pinhole leak near where the pickup was soldered to the tank. Dad surmised the flux used to facilitate the soldering eventually etched the hole (the tank was otherwise in good shape).

 bs

 On 9/20/2023 7:46 AM, Tom Felts via Healeys wrote:

  Since having the car towed home I have checked all connections in the ignition system, pulled the distributor base plate out and cleaned it--the the two pieces were very tight.  I have let her run in the garage for long periods of time and she has not shut down again so I haven't been able to check spark.  
  When it did shut down, it wouldn't take long before she would start again then shut down.  Then start, then shut down.   
  I know my trial and error method wasn't the best approach, but without being able to check spark it seemed appropriate to change out components.   
  Tell me if my analysis is correct on this.  I thought it might be a fuel supply issue.  So---I pulled the float bowl covers and all was ok there--also pulled and cleaned the carbs.  If the float bowl jets were stuck in a closed position it would get no gas and eventually shut down---but---both would have to stick so each carb wouldn't get gas.  this seems like an unlikely condition. 
  If they were stock in the open position it would be dumping gas out of the overflow tubes---so, again, unlikely since it would still run.  I have already changed fuel filter and blew out the line.  The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas.  So--I have basically ruled out fuel starvation as a cause.     in the garage she sits and purrs forever with no shutdown------so, as I mentioned, I can't ch spark   

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If the engine starts and idles nicely—and there’s a nice fat spark at the plugs—but won’t rev, it sounds like a distributor advance sping(s) is broken or faulty in some other way. Might consider rebuilding or replacing the distributor (I’d choose a Mallory dual point over the Pertronix dist, and Pertronix makes a module for that as well). If the car runs well but conks out on the road after it warms up, then restarts and repeats, it’s that stupid little ground wire inside. Someone else mentioned a blocked gas cap breather, which is also quite easy to check. Rust in the gas tank? Could cause the engine to run well and then stop, which is a good reason to use a clear fuel filter. But this really sounds like a dist problem …

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On Thursday, September 21, 2023, 6:05 AM, Tom Felts <tomfelts at windstream.net> wrote:

I'm using the new floats, have a new 3ohm coil, and have changed the Pertronix to a new one.  This is crazy----but after my last attempt by cleaning and oiling the baseplate of the distributor, she has sat at idle for a loooooong tie and has not shut down.  I'm still shooting in the dark, I'll admit, and if she shuts down again I'll do a quick spark test.
Tom
From: "Robert Markovich via Healeys" <healeys at autox.team.net>
To: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell at comcast.net>, "healeys" <healeys at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 5:41:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] update on shutdown issue

Might the brass floats also have pinholes, causing them to fill with fuel and preventing them from rising as they should? The new nitro phyll floats solve that issue. If not, I’d suspect the distributor (internal ground wire or advence weights). Might also be worth buying another Pertronix module and a 3-ohm coil (always smart to have a spare along anyway) and see if it isn’t one of those. Still, it sounds more and more like an advance problem if the engine won’t reverse. 

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

On Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 2:49 PM, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:

 re: "The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas."

 Which type/brand of pump do you have? I've seen pumps, both points and SS, do some unexplainable things. Another thought: something in the tank that intermittently blocks the pickup. We bought a used tank for our BN2 and experienced erratic behavior from the engine; my dad finally tracked it down to a pinhole leak near where the pickup was soldered to the tank. Dad surmised the flux used to facilitate the soldering eventually etched the hole (the tank was otherwise in good shape).

 bs

 On 9/20/2023 7:46 AM, Tom Felts via Healeys wrote:

  Since having the car towed home I have checked all connections in the ignition system, pulled the distributor base plate out and cleaned it--the the two pieces were very tight.  I have let her run in the garage for long periods of time and she has not shut down again so I haven't been able to check spark.  
  When it did shut down, it wouldn't take long before she would start again then shut down.  Then start, then shut down.   
  I know my trial and error method wasn't the best approach, but without being able to check spark it seemed appropriate to change out components.   
  Tell me if my analysis is correct on this.  I thought it might be a fuel supply issue.  So---I pulled the float bowl covers and all was ok there--also pulled and cleaned the carbs.  If the float bowl jets were stuck in a closed position it would get no gas and eventually shut down---but---both would have to stick so each carb wouldn't get gas.  this seems like an unlikely condition. 
  If they were stock in the open position it would be dumping gas out of the overflow tubes---so, again, unlikely since it would still run.  I have already changed fuel filter and blew out the line.  The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas.  So--I have basically ruled out fuel starvation as a cause.     in the garage she sits and purrs forever with no shutdown------so, as I mentioned, I can't ch spark   

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Did you try bypassing the cutoff switch in the trunk? That solved a similar problem for me
Jon 
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 10:31 PM Robert Markovich via Healeys <healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:

Might the brass floats also have pinholes, causing them to fill with fuel and preventing them from rising as they should? The new nitro phyll floats solve that issue. If not, I’d suspect the distributor (internal ground wire or advence weights). Might also be worth buying another Pertronix module and a 3-ohm coil (always smart to have a spare along anyway) and see if it isn’t one of those. Still, it sounds more and more like an advance problem if the engine won’t reverse. 

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

On Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 2:49 PM, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:

 re: "The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas."

 Which type/brand of pump do you have? I've seen pumps, both points and SS, do some unexplainable things. Another thought: something in the tank that intermittently blocks the pickup. We bought a used tank for our BN2 and experienced erratic behavior from the engine; my dad finally tracked it down to a pinhole leak near where the pickup was soldered to the tank. Dad surmised the flux used to facilitate the soldering eventually etched the hole (the tank was otherwise in good shape).

 bs

 On 9/20/2023 7:46 AM, Tom Felts via Healeys wrote:

  Since having the car towed home I have checked all connections in the ignition system, pulled the distributor base plate out and cleaned it--the the two pieces were very tight.  I have let her run in the garage for long periods of time and she has not shut down again so I haven't been able to check spark.  
  When it did shut down, it wouldn't take long before she would start again then shut down.  Then start, then shut down.   
  I know my trial and error method wasn't the best approach, but without being able to check spark it seemed appropriate to change out components.   
  Tell me if my analysis is correct on this.  I thought it might be a fuel supply issue.  So---I pulled the float bowl covers and all was ok there--also pulled and cleaned the carbs.  If the float bowl jets were stuck in a closed position it would get no gas and eventually shut down---but---both would have to stick so each carb wouldn't get gas.  this seems like an unlikely condition. 
  If they were stock in the open position it would be dumping gas out of the overflow tubes---so, again, unlikely since it would still run.  I have already changed fuel filter and blew out the line.  The pump pumps normally and each time I pulled the float bowl caps, they have been full of gas.  So--I have basically ruled out fuel starvation as a cause.     in the garage she sits and purrs forever with no shutdown------so, as I mentioned, I can't ch spark   

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