[Healeys] Healeys Digest, Vol 16, Issue 54
wdavid890dd at aol.com
wdavid890dd at aol.com
Wed Mar 15 12:49:57 MDT 2023
Gary, Have you bled the master cylinder separately?
Dave Walsh
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On Wednesday, March 15, 2023, 2:04 PM, healeys-request at autox.team.net <healeys-request at autox.team.net> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Healeys Digest, Vol 16, Issue 53 (Allan Peters)
2. Aluminium shaper/fabricator for shroud (Richard Lester)
3. Re: Aluminium shaper/fabricator for shroud (Harold Manifold)
4. Re: Aluminium shaper/fabricator for shroud (Neil Anderson)
5. Re: Aluminium shaper/fabricator for shroud (Charles Frazer)
6. Re: Aluminium shaper/fabricator for shroud (Bob Spidell)
7. Re: Aluminium shaper/fabricator for shroud
(m.g.sharp at sympatico.ca)
8. FW: Re: Aluminium shaper/fabricator for shroud (Hank Leach)
Hi, I too had problems bleeding bn1 Brake system. It is most important that Handbrake is completely isolated,
So would reccommend disconnnecting rear linkage at drum !! Good Luck !!, Allan
On Tuesday, 14 March 2023 at 18:13:00 GMT, healeys-request at autox.team.net <healeys-request at autox.team.net> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. 100 brakes (warthodson at aol.com)
2. Re: Leaky Banjo Fittings at Carbs (Hank Leach)
3. Re: 100 brakes (Hank Leach)
4. Re: 100 brakes (Michael Salter)
5. Re: 100 brakes (greylinn at ozemail.com.au)
6. Re: 100 brakes (Hank Leach)
7. Re: 100 brakes (warthodson at aol.com)
8. Re: 100 brakes (warthodson at aol.com)
We are having a very difficult time adjusting & bleeding the brakes on a friend's BN1.The car has recently under a full ground up restoration so things like brake lines including flex lines are new, seals in the brake cylinders are new, the master cyl. is new, etc.We bleed the system so many times different way that I have lost track. We have adjusted the free play to assure that the plunger is able to return to the full "off" position.When we adjust the operating rod to achieve the specified 1/8" free movement at the pedal.We have adjusted the brake shoes to have a very slight drag at rest.Our issue is:Excessive brake pedal travel before the brakes begin to be effective. Pumping the brakes temporarily improve the pedal travel issue, which we think indicates air still in the system.We are not having any leaks & the reservoir port is functioning correctly, IE: no locking up of the brakes. Gary I dont think its the wrench, as both fit. It is more about the type of fiber washer and the proper placement of it. If you "wiggle" the fitting as you insert it by hand it will help to not strip out the casting (which is the scrafical item). If it does not start in smoothly, STOP and redo it again by hand. Carb bodies are expensive. Yes, WD-40 or even a bit of red grease will help the mating of the two threaded parts. "Genuine" SU parts are the best to use if you can find them. Hank
-----------------------------------------
From: "Bob Spidell"
To: "healeys at autox.team.net"
Cc:
Sent: Monday March 13 2023 11:01:57AM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Leaky Banjo Fittings at Carbs
Sure, but 13/16" fits well.
On 3/13/2023 9:37 AM, rct2bnc at aol.com wrote:
Bob,
I think that SU fittings are Whitworth size wrench sizes...not13/16". And you can strip out the threads in the cast fuel bowllids.
Ben CohenBN1, BN7, BJ8
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net>
To: healeys at autox.team.net
Sent: Mon, Mar 13, 2023 9:12 am
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Leaky Banjo Fittings at Carbs
Are the washers brown or black? Ibelieve the brown ones are the
original type and the black ones are being proffered by somesuppliers
and may be slightly undersized. I usually, if I think of it, soakthem
in WD-40 for an hour or so before installing, and re-torque themafter a
day or so because they do take a set. I torque them 'elbow-tight*'with
a 13/16" half-inch socket and wrench (fits the bolt head well). Itwould
be difficult, but not impossible to strip the threads on a banjofitting
as they're coarse (you'd likely strip the carb or pump threads, notthe
bolt).
* Torque settings : finger-tight, wrist-tight,elbow-tight,
shoulder-tight and all-you-got tight.
Bob
On 3/13/2023 8:39 AM, Harold Manifold wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am having a problem with leaky banjo fittings on my HD6carburetors.
> The leaks are at the banjo washers. The washers are new andall
> surfaces are clean and smooth.
>
> I would appreciate any suggestions on how to solve the leaks.Should
> the washers be soaked in anything first? Is there arecommended
> sealant? Is there a maximum torque for the banjobolts?
>
> Thanks.... Harold
>
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It sure sounds like air. The 100 system is difficult to bleed due to the placement of the wheel cylinders and bleeders. I like to pull out the fluid rather than push out the stuff. Use something like a Mityvac to do this starting at the right rear.
The smallest bubbles will create a lot of pedal travel but if it pumps up to a hard pedal then its for sure air in the system. Keep the cap on the canister when bleeding and check under the canister for a wet finger. Moss has good seals for that purpose.
The word "new" in brake systems scares me, as there are so many crappy replacement parts made in foreign countries that look like good new items. I prefer to rebuilt original or sleeve them if necessary to use the original items. The seal kits are another story. Can you find good Girling repair kits. Many of the foreign replacements are knockoffs of the original. Use TRW (they bought Lockheed) only-not unknown brands...even new Lucas is not old Lucas.
I pumped and pulled gallons of brake fluid thru a MKI bugeye system only to find the seal stuck in the back of the master cylinder because the Moss purchased seals were too big! Use TRW. When I got the replacement seals from them, they had the same number stamp on the seal. They are using the same molds to make the seals.
Did you use red grease on all the threaded fittings? Check all for a wet finger. Hope this info lessens your frustration. A word that goes hand in hand with brake bleeding. Hank
-----------------------------------------
From: "warthodson--- via Healeys"
To: "healeys at autox.team.net"
Cc:
Sent: Monday March 13 2023 12:07:18PM
Subject: [Healeys] 100 brakes
Weare having a very difficult time adjusting & bleeding the brakes ona friend's BN1.The car has recently under a full ground up restoration sothings like brake lines including flex lines are new, seals in thebrake cylinders are new, the master cyl. is new, etc.We bleed the system so many times different way that I havelost track. We have adjusted the free play to assure that the plunger isable to return to the full "off" position.When we adjust the operating rod to achieve the specified 1/8"free movement at the pedal.We have adjusted the brake shoes to have a very slight drag atrest.Our issue is:Excessive brake pedal travel before the brakes begin to beeffective. Pumping the brakes temporarily improve the pedal travel issue,which we think indicates air still in the system.We are not having any leaks & the reservoir port isfunctioning correctly, IE: no locking up of the brakes. Gary This article may help.https://precisionsportscar.com/bleeding-austin-healey-4-wheel-drum-brakes/
On Tue., Mar. 14, 2023, 7:54 a.m. warthodson--- via Healeys, <healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:
We are having a very difficult time adjusting & bleeding the brakes on a friend's BN1.The car has recently under a full ground up restoration so things like brake lines including flex lines are new, seals in the brake cylinders are new, the master cyl. is new, etc.We bleed the system so many times different way that I have lost track. We have adjusted the free play to assure that the plunger is able to return to the full "off" position.When we adjust the operating rod to achieve the specified 1/8" free movement at the pedal.We have adjusted the brake shoes to have a very slight drag at rest.Our issue is:Excessive brake pedal travel before the brakes begin to be effective. Pumping the brakes temporarily improve the pedal travel issue, which we think indicates air still in the system.We are not having any leaks & the reservoir port is functioning correctly, IE: no locking up of the brakes. Gary _______________________________________________
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Michael assuming you have some resistance after pumping the pedal, jam the pedal down hard and leave it at least overnight, preferably longer. Do this repeatedly & you will find the pedal comes up. Don’t ask me why, but I’ve done this several times with my own and other people’s cars, and it works!
Cheers
Peter
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Michael Salter via Healeys
Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2023 5:43 AM
To: warthodson at aol.com
Cc: healeys at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 brakes
This article may help.
https://precisionsportscar.com/bleeding-austin-healey-4-wheel-drum-brakes/
On Tue., Mar. 14, 2023, 7:54 a.m. warthodson--- via Healeys, <healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:
We are having a very difficult time adjusting & bleeding the brakes on a friend's BN1.
The car has recently under a full ground up restoration so things like brake lines including flex lines are new, seals in the brake cylinders are new, the master cyl. is new, etc.
We bleed the system so many times different way that I have lost track.
We have adjusted the free play to assure that the plunger is able to return to the full "off" position.
When we adjust the operating rod to achieve the specified 1/8" free movement at the pedal.
We have adjusted the brake shoes to have a very slight drag at rest.
Our issue is:
Excessive brake pedal travel before the brakes begin to be effective.
Pumping the brakes temporarily improve the pedal travel issue, which we think indicates air still in the system.
We are not having any leaks & the reservoir port is functioning correctly, IE: no locking up of the brakes.
Gary
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Peter-yea, what I think happens there, providing there are no leaks anywhere else, is that under pressure, overnight, the system "pushes" the air bubble to the only place that it can get out-the vent hole in the canister!
I have used this method also for "final bleeding"...could be a line item on an invoice to look official and garner more dough, Ha. Hank
-----------------------------------------
From: "greylinn--- via Healeys"
To: "Michael Salter"
Cc: healeys at autox.team.net
Sent: Monday March 13 2023 4:02:50PM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 brakes
Michael assuming you have someresistance after pumping the pedal, jam the pedal down hard andleave it at least overnight, preferably longer. Do this repeatedly& you will find the pedal comes up. Don’t ask me why, but I’ve donethis several times with my own and other people’s cars, and itworks!
Cheers
Peter
From:Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net>On Behalf Of Michael Salter via Healeys
Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2023 5:43 AM
To: warthodson at aol.com
Cc: healeys at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 brakes
This article may help.
https://precisionsportscar.com/bleeding-austin-healey-4-wheel-drum-brakes/
On Tue., Mar. 14, 2023, 7:54 a.m.warthodson--- via Healeys, <healeys at autox.team.net>wrote:
We arehaving a very difficult time adjusting & bleeding the brakes on afriend's BN1.
The carhas recently under a full ground up restoration so things likebrake lines including flex lines are new, seals in the brakecylinders are new, the master cyl. is new, etc.
We bleedthe system so many times different way that I have losttrack.
We haveadjusted the free play to assure that the plunger is able to returnto the full "off" position.
When weadjust the operating rod to achieve the specified 1/8" freemovement at the pedal.
We haveadjusted the brake shoes to have a very slight drag atrest.
Ourissue is:
Excessivebrake pedal travel before the brakes begin to beeffective.
Pumpingthe brakes temporarily improve the pedal travel issue, which wethink indicates air still in the system.
We arenot having any leaks & the reservoir port is functioning correctly,IE: no locking up of the brakes.
Gary
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One more related question. The attached illustrates exactly how our pedal assembly & master cylinder are installed. In order to get the specified 1/8" free play at the pedal pad, the lever with the arrow pointing at it is against the foot board. Is that normal/correct? Gary H
-----Original Message-----
From: greylinn at ozemail.com.au
To: 'Michael Salter' <michaelsalter at gmail.com>; warthodson at aol.com
Cc: healeys at autox.team.net
Sent: Mon, Mar 13, 2023 5:29 pm
Subject: RE: [Healeys] 100 brakes
Michael assuming you have some resistance after pumping the pedal, jam the pedal down hard and leave it at least overnight, preferably longer. Do this repeatedly & you will find the pedal comes up. Don’t ask me why, but I’ve done this several times with my own and other people’s cars, and it works!
Cheers Peter From: Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Michael Salter via Healeys
Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2023 5:43 AM
To: warthodson at aol.com
Cc: healeys at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 brakes This article may help.https://precisionsportscar.com/bleeding-austin-healey-4-wheel-drum-brakes/ On Tue., Mar. 14, 2023, 7:54 a.m. warthodson--- via Healeys, <healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:
We are having a very difficult time adjusting & bleeding the brakes on a friend's BN1. The car has recently under a full ground up restoration so things like brake lines including flex lines are new, seals in the brake cylinders are new, the master cyl. is new, etc.We bleed the system so many times different way that I have lost track. We have adjusted the free play to assure that the plunger is able to return to the full "off" position.When we adjust the operating rod to achieve the specified 1/8" free movement at the pedal.We have adjusted the brake shoes to have a very slight drag at rest.Our issue is:Excessive brake pedal travel before the brakes begin to be effective. Pumping the brakes temporarily improve the pedal travel issue, which we think indicates air still in the system.We are not having any leaks & the reservoir port is functioning correctly, IE: no locking up of the brakes. Gary _______________________________________________
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The bubble will perhaps migrate to the highest point & if that is the reservoir then it might escape, but this only applies if the path is always up. Then bubble will never migrate on its own down. Also, the system is not pushing on the bubble in any single direction. If the system is under pressure, the is uniform throughout the entire system. Essentially, the bubble, being lighter than the fluid, trying to float. Bleeding the system is different, there is flow of the fluid to help move the bubble.Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: Hank Leach <gradea1 at charter.net>
To: 'greylinn at ozemail.com.au' <greylinn at ozemail.com.au>
Cc: 'Michael Salter' <michaelsalter at gmail.com>; 'warthodson at aol.com' <warthodson at aol.com>; 'healeys at autox.team.net' <healeys at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Mar 13, 2023 7:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 brakes
Peter-yea, what I think happens there, providing there are no leaks anywhere else, is that under pressure, overnight, the system "pushes" the air bubble to the only place that it can get out-the vent hole in the canister!
I have used this method also for "final bleeding"...could be a line item on an invoice to look official and garner more dough, Ha. Hank
-----------------------------------------From: "greylinn--- via Healeys"
To: "Michael Salter"
Cc: healeys at autox.team.net
Sent: Monday March 13 2023 4:02:50PM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 brakes
Michael assuming you have someresistance after pumping the pedal, jam the pedal down hard andleave it at least overnight, preferably longer. Do this repeatedly& you will find the pedal comes up. Don’t ask me why, but I’ve donethis several times with my own and other people’s cars, and itworks!
Cheers Peter From:Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net>On Behalf Of Michael Salter via Healeys
Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2023 5:43 AM
To: warthodson at aol.com
Cc: healeys at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 brakes This article may help.https://precisionsportscar.com/bleeding-austin-healey-4-wheel-drum-brakes/ On Tue., Mar. 14, 2023, 7:54 a.m.warthodson--- via Healeys, <healeys at autox.team.net>wrote:
We arehaving a very difficult time adjusting & bleeding the brakes on afriend's BN1.The carhas recently under a full ground up restoration so things likebrake lines including flex lines are new, seals in the brakecylinders are new, the master cyl. is new, etc.We bleedthe system so many times different way that I have losttrack. We haveadjusted the free play to assure that the plunger is able to returnto the full "off" position.When weadjust the operating rod to achieve the specified 1/8" freemovement at the pedal.We haveadjusted the brake shoes to have a very slight drag atrest.Ourissue is:Excessivebrake pedal travel before the brakes begin to beeffective. Pumpingthe brakes temporarily improve the pedal travel issue, which wethink indicates air still in the system.We arenot having any leaks & the reservoir port is functioning correctly,IE: no locking up of the brakes. Gary
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As a follow up to my earlier email looking f=or a front shroud. I may have found one but it needs a little work. Does any=one have recommendations for someone with experience repairing these aluminu=m shrouds (shaping and fabricating). Aluminium requires a different skill se=t from that for steel. I live in the Portland area
<=div>
Richard Lester
m: 503-706-3693
lester.home at comcast.net
=Richard,
Have you tried Healey Lane? They have not done work for me but I have seen cars they have restored to a high standard.
Harold
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 3:39 PM Richard Lester <lester.home at comcast.net> wrote:
As a follow up to my earlier email looking for a front shroud. I may have found one but it needs a little work. Does anyone have recommendations for someone with experience repairing these aluminum shrouds (shaping and fabricating). Aluminium requires a different skill set from that for steel. I live in the Portland area
Richard Lester
m: 503-706-3693
lester.home at comcast.net
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Try Robert Wilson at Healey Lane Restoration, Marcola, OR
Neil Anderson
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 5:40 PM Richard Lester <lester.home at comcast.net> wrote:
As a follow up to my earlier email looking for a front shroud. I may have found one but it needs a little work. Does anyone have recommendations for someone with experience repairing these aluminum shrouds (shaping and fabricating). Aluminium requires a different skill set from that for steel. I live in the Portland area
Richard Lester
m: 503-706-3693
lester.home at comcast.net
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Look into Vintageunderground.com630 Garfield StreetEugene, OR 97402
On Mar 14, 2023, at 3:17 PM, Richard Lester <lester.home at comcast.net> wrote:
As a follow up to my earlier email looking for a front shroud. I may have found one but it needs a little work. Does anyone have recommendations for someone with experience repairing these aluminum shrouds (shaping and fabricating). Aluminium requires a different skill set from that for steel. I live in the Portland area
Richard Lester m: 503-706-3693lester.home at comcast.net
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Since you're in Portland, I'll say give Tom Monaco a call. He'll help you if he can.
https://tomsimport.com/
On 3/14/2023 3:53 PM, Harold Manifold wrote:
Richard,
Have you tried Healey Lane? They have not done work for me but I have seen cars they have restored to a high standard.
Harold
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 3:39 PM Richard Lester <lester.home at comcast.net> wrote:
As a follow up to my earlier email looking for a front shroud. I may have found one but it needs a little work. Does anyone have recommendations for someone with experience repairing these aluminum shrouds (shaping and fabricating). Aluminium requires a different skill set from that for steel. I live in the Portland area
Richard Lester
m: 503-706-3693
lester.home at comcast.net
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Richard, If you find someone in the US then great, but you are not far from the Canadian border and there is an outstanding panel-former and welder with A LOT of experience with Healeys in the Vancouver area. His name is Colin Bailey. Colin worked for years with Rich Chrysler, which many listers will remember as being as a fastidious and extremely knowledgeable Healey restorer. Colin moved to Vancouver some 10 years ago and I’d have to track him down for you, but I have wanted to touch base with him again anyhow, so I am happy to do that. I’ll attach a photo of Colin welding a new flange on the rear shroud of my BT7.
Cheers, Mirek
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Charles Frazer
Sent: March 14, 2023 8:00 PM
To: Richard Lester <lester.home at comcast.net>
Cc: healeys at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Aluminium shaper/fabricator for shroud
Look into Vintageunderground.com
630 Garfield Street
Eugene, OR 97402
On Mar 14, 2023, at 3:17 PM, Richard Lester <lester.home at comcast.net> wrote:
As a follow up to my earlier email looking for a front shroud. I may have found one but it needs a little work. Does anyone have recommendations for someone with experience repairing these aluminum shrouds (shaping and fabricating). Aluminium requires a different skill set from that for steel. I live in the Portland area
Richard Lester
m: 503-706-3693
lester.home at comcast.net
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Robert uses a great body shop in Eugene called Precision Classics-they did my 100 and many, many Healeys for John Wilson. Wonderfulcraftsmen with modern day skills. I highly recommend their work.It's worth the trip to Eugene to have them finish your car. Hank
-----------------------------------------
From: "Neil Anderson"
To: "Richard Lester"
Cc: "Austin Healey"
Sent: Tuesday March 14 2023 5:28:56PM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Aluminium shaper/fabricator for shroud
Try Robert Wilson at Healey Lane Restoration, Marcola, OR
Neil Anderson
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 5:40 PMRichard Lester <lester.home at comcast.net>wrote:
As a follow up to my earlier email looking for a front shroud.I may have found one but it needs a little work. Does anyone haverecommendations for someone with experience repairing thesealuminum shrouds (shaping and fabricating). Aluminium requires adifferent skill set from that for steel. I live in the Portlandarea
Richard Lester
m: 503-706-3693
lester.home at comcast.net
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