[Healeys] Fwd: Recent 100M on BAT

Sat Dec 16 10:25:25 MST 2023

Rick,
No doubt that individuals were able to identify an "M" before and they will continue to do so in the future. What the Worldwide 100M Registry is doing is provide a potential buyer, the means to identify with a high degree of certainty that a given car is a genuine 100M or one that has been dealer optioned or modified later one. The Registry has also been able to, in some cases, prevent a possible purchaser to be defrauded by an unscrupulous seller claiming that the car on offer was a genuine 100M.
Given the level of interest to factory 100M offered for sale from time to time on Bring-a-Trailer, I would definitely say that the genuine factory still command a very high level of interest and so far, command an extra premium over a regular 100.
As far as the Worldwide 100M Registry is concerned, it will be continued, an announcement will be forthcoming soon.

Jean
________________________________
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of HealeyRick <healeyrik at gmail.com>
Sent: December 16, 2023 9:29 AM
To: Healeys <healeys at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Healeys] Fwd: Recent 100M on BAT

Hi Michael,

I know Bill Meade was trying to include the Registry along with the sale of his M., but the new owner wasn't interested. IMHO, more of an ass ache than an asset. Getting someone to take it on might be a problem, but people were able to identify factory Ms before the registry and will be able to do so in the future if the registry fades away

Happy Healeydays,
Rick Neville

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On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 5:16 PM Michael Salter <michaelsalter at gmail.com<mailto:michaelsalter at gmail.com>> wrote:
I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.
If the "M" designation involved significant performance modifications,  say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.
I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.
Just my opinion.

M

On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <healeys at autox.team.net<mailto:healeys at autox.team.net>> wrote:

What makes a 100M?
Very good question and not easy to answer.

In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is significantly higher than the normal 100,
is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and
no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification for me, as would a
conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a
Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me
the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a little more
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes.

Josef Eckert
Germany

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT

Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100

Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell at comcast.net<mailto:bspidell at comcast.net>>

An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik at gmail.com<mailto:healeyrik at gmail.com>>

Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).

I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).

On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that caveat.  Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it needed a new frame.  How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M?  Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at auction.

To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.  If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M cam in the lump!

Happy Healeydays,
Rick Neville

On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net<mailto:bspidell at comcast.net>> wrote:
Excellent report, thank you.

I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like my car).

The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value should be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.

Bob

On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
If you were following it recently,  you might find my observations interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.

It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount.

What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes seem as they never existed.  Along with that, where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall,  you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position.

I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end result.  I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power.

The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someone else to decide.

Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it's original.  It does indeed look to have some age, so?

I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?

With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the restoration,  it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.

The Millers

"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a test drive."
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