[Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT

Fri Dec 15 11:31:56 MST 2023

What makes a 100M? 
Very good question and not easy to answer.

In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is significantly higher than the normal 100, 
is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and 
no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification for me, as would a 
conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a 
Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me 
the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a little more 
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes.

Josef Eckert
Germany

-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell at comcast.net>
An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik at gmail.com>

Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be 
what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with 
aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).

I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be 
somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and 
parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main problem I see is an earnest owner 
may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an 
owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently 
forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock 
bands).

On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:

    This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that
    caveat.  Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it
    needed a new frame.  How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body
    parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis
    plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body
    parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with
    non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent
    Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M?  Some
    pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis
    and still bring big money at auction. 

    To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.  If an M no longer has its
    original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an
    M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a
    Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor.
    Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not
    much of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be
    non-original carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove
    those from an original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve
    cover, remove the rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so
    we can see if there is still a 100M cam in the lump!

    Happy Healeydays,
    Rick Neville

    On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net
    <mailto:bspidell at comcast.net> > wrote:
      Excellent report, thank you.

      I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but,
      since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and
      could only point out obvious differences with my car (which was
      completely original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body
      work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the
      Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies (the
      carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand
      scribing like my car).

      The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car?
      Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value 
      should be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And,
      what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this
      car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would
      need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.

      Bob

      On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:

          If you were following it recently,  you might find my
          observations interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars
          to help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here
          is what I found.

          It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has
          the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced
          welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket.
          The front shock towers have no evidence of being replaced and
          show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows
          non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate
          the BN2 mount. 

          What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD
          relays mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it
          different directions to just make out the slight evidence of
          filled holes (4 of then for the two relays). And I was able to
          reach inside the vent just below that area with my fingers and
          feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4
          holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make
          those holes seem as they never existed.  Along with that, where a
          BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with
          machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall, 
          you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what
          would be a BN2 relay position. 

          I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter
          stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped
          with a deeper end result.  I took my repo engine tag along to
          compare, and they appeared identical in the stampings. The body/
          bath tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that doesn't mean
          that the engine isn't the correct M engine, because there could
          be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove
          a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in
          power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power. 

          The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped
          off another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the
          boot shows some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original.
          I could not make out any evidence of the bonnet number being
          sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say that the underside of
          the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestine. I couldn't
          detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someone else
          to decide. 

          Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I simply
          don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it
          looks old, it's original.  It does indeed look to have some age,
          so?

          I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some
          effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled
          on a BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an
          attempt to fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on
          the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't realize that the holes
          continued over to the BN2's, and thought they were erasing
          evidence of a BN1 chassis? 

          With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car
          correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is
          straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to
          be a very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike
          has years of experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions
          on that. With the quality of the restoration,  it is surprising
          that the front frame to shroud brackets were not welded to the
          frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some trophies at
          a popular vote car would not be an issue. 

          The Millers

          "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is
          a test drive."

      _______________________________________________
      Support Team.Net<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
      Suggested annual donation  $12.75

      Archive:<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys>
      <http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>

      Healeys at autox.team.net <mailto:Healeys at autox.team.net>
      <http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>

      Unsubscribe/Manage:
      <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeyrik@gmail.com>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/healeys/attachments/20231215/4b492718/attachment.htm>