[Healeys] 100 lifters
Bob Spidell
bspidell at comcast.net
Mon Aug 9 10:11:09 MDT 2021
Unless there's been another one, the reduction in ZDDP in thinner
viscosity oils happened years ago, coincident with catalytic converters
being installed on, well, pretty much every car. Supposedly, thicker
oils, like 20W-50 were allowed to keep higher levels, since no modern
cars use such a thick oil (BMW apparently excepted). Does anyone know if
the levels were reduced again? Some brands, like Castrol and Valvoline,
have advertised their ZDDP levels to capitalize on this market.
According to this, the additive package in VR1 was 'reformulated' (also,
it's the 'P'--phosphorous--in ZDDP that provides the anti-wear aspect):
https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq
On 8/9/2021 4:20 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
> Bob--
>
> I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent
> lowering by DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been
> fine a year earlier was no longer sufficient to protect the new cam
> and lifters. I'll certainly plead guilty to the sometimes-specious
> thinking that "more is better", but on the other hand "less" is
> sometimes not enough, and therein lies the dilemma.
>
> Best--Michael Oritt
>
> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Healeys
> <healeys at autox.team.net <mailto:healeys at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>
> Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies
> stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding
> anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as
> a detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising
> side-effect (like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to
> increase octane rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve
> seats was a side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a
> little of this is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not
> necessarily true. ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the
> 'sweet spot' appears to be about 1,500PPM.
>
> Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to
> improper break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which
> makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don't know how
> bucket lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems
> to be reduced wear of the block.
>
>
> On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys wrote:
>> Good practice
>>
>> Ira Erbs
>> 1959 AH 100-6
>> 1967 MGB
>> Milwaukie, OR
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Alan Seigrist <healey.nut at gmail.com
>> <mailto:healey.nut at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay? I
>> have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys
>> <healeys at autox.team.net <mailto:healeys at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>>
>> In about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils
>> became a commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing
>> communities, I bought a new race engine for my
>> MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
>> recommended I use Mobil 1. Somewhere during the first
>> race weekend performance fell off and upon disassembly it
>> was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged due to
>> wear from the lifters.
>>
>> After replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP
>> racing oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good
>> measure. Though the Royal Purple probably contained
>> sufficient zddp on its own and some folks
>> cautioned against too high levels of zinc I have
>> continued this combination and have not lost a cam, etc.
>> since.
>>
>> YMMV....
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter
>> <michaelsalter at gmail.com
>> <mailto:michaelsalter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> The first sign of problems was having to adjust the
>> tappets which had initially been silent after 2000
>> miles and then again at 4500.
>> After adjusting they were still audible and had
>> previously been silent.
>> Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was
>> "fir" in the drain plug magnet.
>> I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low
>> mileage "M" cam and a set of NOS lifters that I had
>> been saving for decades.
>> I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride
>> lifters manufactured but at over $1000 a set its a
>> serious investment.
>>
>> M
>>
>> On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury,
>> <airtightproductions at icloud.com
>> <mailto:airtightproductions at icloud.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my
>> lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These were
>> their new design for better oil flow. I now have
>> 1000 miles or so on the new engine and once I got
>> my problems figured out with my distributor, the
>> car is running well and smooth.
>> Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going
>> to drop! What problems did you have pointing you
>> to the lifters as the source of those problems?
>> When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the
>> rockers and found no problems. They were a little
>> off, but I expected a little.
>> What should I be looking for? I used Driven
>> Break In oil and then I switched to VR1 like you
>> after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to
>> build up some trust in it and it's turning in to
>> a joy to drive. I've got M mods on this engine,
>> cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters.
>> So far, so good.
>> Thanks for your help,
>> Steven Kingsbury
>> BN1
>>
>> On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via
>> Healeys <healeys at autox.team.net
>> <mailto:healeys at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>>
>>> After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I
>>> installed in my engine with a very low mileage
>>> "M" cam have started to deteriorate.
>>> This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non
>>> synthetic and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.
>>> Very disappointing.
>>> I'm considering trying bucket type Buick
>>> lifters with longer push rods and a new cam.
>>> Does anyone have experience with the durability
>>> of the old Buick lifters ... getting a little
>>> desperate here.
>>> Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined
>>> the engine.
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>
>
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