[Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem

[Bob Spidell]

Hank,

Good point. I'm on record being very 'anti-County,' having had hugely 
disruptive failures with their water pumps. The two rears are 'no-name' 
so possibly County,  and the one front cyl I put in is Moss 'Classic 
Gold,' so possibly County (IIRC, it said 'Taiwan' on the box). The other 
three fronts are, AFAIK, original Girling with, yes, probably seal kits 
from Moss (we redid the brakes during restoration, and IIRC my dad did 
most of the work*). I'm loathing having to pull a front drum and 
re-pack, shim etc. again but will do so if no other solution works (I've 
already checked the rears for leaks). I did use a 'no-name' rear cyl on 
my BJ8, but so far it's given me no issues (that I know of).

*Side note: When I went to install one of the new rear cylinders the 
fitting would not go in easily, even though I was extremely careful not 
to cross-thread. Thinking I got a cyl with a bunged thread I ordered 
another, and had the same problem! I finally realized that when my dad 
rebuilt the brake system he used new steel lines, but likely re-used the 
(steel) fittings (correct fittings are available, but not common). On 
close inspection, the threads of the fitting were rust-colored, and even 
when tested on the bench did not want to screw in as easily as they 
should have. Even a thin coat of rust presents high resistance to 
torquing so I've taken to putting a VERY thin application of high-temp 
anti-seize on the threads ONLY (I can hear the howls of 'heresy!' and 
"you're gonna die!" already ;).  I use less than a BB in size of 
anti-seize and put it nowhere near the sealing surface, so contamination 
of the fluid, seal failures, etc. is unlikely (I know of some owners who 
use teflon tape, but I could see that conceivably posing a problem). Not 
only should this prevent rust-galling of steel-steel threads, it should 
make the fittings much easier to remove, so rounding out the nut is less 
likely. Seizing due to rust shouldn't be an issue with cupro-nickel 
lines and brass fittings. As usual, the interwebs are in violent 
disagreement on the subject (examples):

https://www.camaros.net/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-fittings.462049/

https://www.hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-line-fittings.174299/

Bob

On 4/25/2021 9:49 AM, gradea1 at charter.net wrote:
> Bob-one troublesome word you mentioned in relation to the wheel 
> cylinders is "new." These must be the County Brand...spelled China. If 
> you did get lucky, and they are good cylinders, what about the other 
> three for the front?  Rebuilt with Moss kits? I have seen the problem 
> with the seals being incorrect for the bore.  For instance, on a 
> Sprite master, one push of the pedal stuck the seal in the rear of the 
> casing and never again to function.  Replacement parts today are to be 
> suspect in an obscure issue like you are having. Sad Healey tales..Hank
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> From: "Bob Spidell"
> To: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE", "Healeys"
> Cc:
> Sent: Saturday April 24 2021 6:45:43PM
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem
>
> (non) progress report:
>
> Thinking Bill probably had the explanation, I clamped off the RF flex 
> line--the wheel I'd replaced the cylinder on--per Michael's suggestion 
> and, Voila!, a nice hard pedal. Thinking also that I hadn't expelled a 
> bubble, like Bill also suggested, I increased the pressure on my 
> pressure bleeding rig and bled all wheels again. Still, a nice hard 
> pedal, so I fired up my BJ8 to get it out of the garage so I could 
> pressure wash the undercarriage of the BN2 and take it (BJ8) for a 
> warm-up spin. Halfway around the 'block,' about 5 miles from home it 
> started running very rough so I pulled into a covid-closed restaurant 
> parking lot and popped the bonnet; coolant all over the passenger side 
> of the engine bay. It appears the gasket under the brass shut-off 
> valve for the heater hoses sprung a leak, so a call to AAA was in 
> order. After getting the BJ8 flat-bedded home I washed the 100's 
> underside, put on the new wheels and tires and hop in .. brake pedal 
> goes to the floor! Since I could get some brakes if I pumped the pedal 
> a couple times I took a chance on a short, abridged spin around a 
> smaller block--the new wheels and tires ride fantastic, and no 
> 'scuttle shake' detected--then parked it.
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. I meant to try the 
> 'hold-the-pedal-to-the-floor-with-a-board' technique, but by EOD I was 
> so beat I forgot. I've had trouble bleeding brakes on the BJ8, but the 
> BN2 has generally cooperated until now. Damned if I can explain why I 
> can get a good hard pedal, which proceeds to go soft from just 
> sitting. Good thing I love these cars.
>
> Bob
>
> On 4/23/2021 9:06 PM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE wrote:
>
>     The problem with the double leading edge brakes on the 100s and
>     100-6s is that the bleeder screw is at a low point in the system
>     so it takes a little extra effort expel any entrained air. You
>     probably got a pretty good slug when you changed the wheel
>     cylinder. Probably keep bleeding that wheel and use various
>     techniques until you find the one that actually moves the air out
>     of the bleeder.
>
>     Bill Lawrence
>     BN1 #554
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob
>     Spidell via Healeys <healeys at autox.team.net>
>     *Sent:* Saturday, April 24, 2021 3:04 AM
>     *To:* Healeys <healeys at autox.team.net>
>     *Subject:* [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem
>     Listers,
>
>     I have a problem with my BN2's brakes that is driving (heh) me up the
>     wall. Here's what I've done:
>
>     - new shoes and cylinders in both rear wheels
>     - one new cylinder in one front wheel (there's a total of 4 in the 2
>     front wheels)
>     - new master cylinder
>
>     I hadn't touched the M/C, so after all the installs I just
>     pressure bled
>     as I usually do (this has worked well on my BJ8 for decades and a
>     couple
>     times for the BN2). At first, I got decent pedal then, after a
>     period of
>     time I lost it; the pedal would go to the floor with only slight
>     pressure (probably from the return springs). Thinking it could only be
>     the M/C, I sprung for a new TRW brand M/C but after installing it and
>     bleeding I got the same results. I've put 2 full quarts of Castrol's
>     finest 'synthetic' DoT4 through the system and tried vacuum
>     bleeding and
>     old-fashioned 'pump and hold' method; same result for all methods. I'm
>     not losing fluid as far as I can tell, and the pedal will pump up
>     a bit
>     with a half-dozen or so strokes, but will go back to the floor after
>     some time.
>
>     Any and all ideas and suggestions accepted and welcomed.
>
>     TIA,
>     Bob
>     _______________________________________________
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/healeys/attachments/20210425/455daafc/attachment.htm>