[Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)

Bob Spidell bspidell at comcast.net
Fri Nov 30 21:09:31 MST 2018 

Moah DATA!  Yeah!

Definitely makes sense.  Both my Healeys have had their tanks sloshed 
with Bill Hirsch sealer (I heard Bill Hirsch died recently, BTW).  The 
BJ8's tank was done at least 20 years ago, the BN2's more recently.  I 
inspect them occasionally and have seen no evidence of any fragments of 
the sealer either coming out of the feed pipe or in the pumps when I 
pull them apart.  Also, when the last pump stopped and I fitted my last 
spare pump it started pumping enthusiastically--and I drove it for 10 or 
so miles--so if the pickup tube in the tank is plugged I wouldn't expect 
that, but I'll have a look inside the tanks.

I've reported it before, but when restoring the BN2 we bought a used 
tank.  We had an issues with an extremely erratic pump: no pumping, 
heavy thrashing (like fibrillation you get when the tank runs dry or you 
have an inlet leak) and occasionally, normal pumping.  We blew out the 
lines, tried several needle valves and Grose jets but to no avail.  
Finally, my dad had a hunch and cut the pickup tube out of the tank.  
Sure enough, there was a lot of corrosion and a pinhole leak in the tube 
near where it exited the tank.  Dad speculated that the flux used to 
solder the tube in the tank was corrosive and not cleaned off correctly 
(well, it was a 40-year-old tank at the time).  Something to put in the 
diagnostics database.

Bob

On 11/28/2018 8:26 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
> This discussion about fuel pumps has revived something from the old 
> grey matter ...
> To those mentioning repeated failures one problem that will cause 
> premature failure is restrictions in the supply to the pump.
> The way these pumps work is that the spring in the pump provides the 
> pressure. As the pressure on the output side of the pump decreases the 
> diaphragm moves down to a point where the points close, that energizes 
> the coil to pull the armature up against the spring pressure to the 
> point where the points "flip" and open to stop the current flow 
> through the coil.
> HOWEVER if there is a restriction in the fuel line feeding the pump 
> the low pressure at the pump inlet can create a partial vacuum which 
> will prevent the armature from rising fully and thus the points from 
> "flipping" .
> When this happens the coil remains energized and "cooks" in a short 
> time thus ruining the pump.
> I discovered this while trying to resolve a delivery problem in a car 
> that had had the tank "sloshed". The sloshing compound had coated the 
> gauze filter  inside the tank severly restricting the flow.
> The test was to put an analogue ammeter on the pump electrical supply 
> which showed the prolonged current flow to the pump.
>
> M
>
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 9:45 PM Kees Oudesluijs <coudesluijs at chello.nl 
> <mailto:coudesluijs at chello.nl> wrote:
>
>     Quite so. The only thing I can come up with is the car is hardly
>     being used and being stored in dampish non ventilated conditions,
>     thus corroding the points. As I said before I have had SU fuel
>     pumps in from more than 50 years old which were absolutely perfect
>     except for the points corroded because the car was not used enough
>     or worn because of not being adjusted properly.
>
>     If used regularly and kept dry internally they last forever.
>
>     Another thing: If you have had to tap the pump to get it going,
>     replace/polish and adjust the points ASAP. Do not wait until you
>     have to repeat the tapping.
>
>     When fitting a new SU-pump you best remove the cap to inspect and
>     if needed clean the points first with very fine polishing paper, I
>     use at least 1000. It is even not uncommon that brand new pumps
>     that have been on the shelf for a while, either at home, in the
>     garage or at the suppliers do not work because the points are
>     dirty/corroded and have to be attended to first. I have bought
>     many pumps that were sold as "defective, for spares or repair" 
>     for a song, that did not work and appeared to be in fact NOS.
>     Cleaning and polishing the points was all that was needed for
>     these. If you have a new/rebuild spare pump in store , remove the
>     cap and insert a bit of acid free paper in between the points,
>     this will stop electrolytic corrosion.
>
>     In the late 70´s I was collecting  quite a lot of Jensen parts and
>     got presented a new pump by Jensen Parts & Service that was said
>     to be defective but only needed some small attention. My old pump
>     kept working (more than 160000mls) so the new pump was never
>     needed. About 5 or 6 years ago I came across that pump and decided
>     to have a look inside. It was of course mint but there were real
>     cauliflowers around the points. Just polished them, fitted a
>     transil (as I do with all my rebuilds) and is now in my present car.
>
>
>     Kees Oudesluijs
>
>
>
>     Op 28-11-2018 om 18:50 schreef healeydoc at gmail.com
>     <mailto:healeydoc at gmail.com>:
>>     I do not understand the problem with the SU pump that everyone
>>     feels that they have to re invent the wheel. I have using the
>>     standard SU pump with points in my Healey for almost 75000 miles
>>     and never had a failure.
>>     We also have been installing the standard SU points pump here at
>>     the shop on every car we do for over 40 years
>>     Everything from Healey’s, MG’s and Jaguar’s and had very few
>>     failures.
>>     David Nock
>>     healeydoc at sbcglobal.net <mailto:healeydoc at sbcglobal.net>
>>     209 948 8767
>>     www.britishcarspecialists.com <http://www.britishcarspecialists.com>
>>
>>     Help us have our Founder Norman Nock inducteed into the
>>     British Sportscar Hall of Fame, You can vote for your favorites
>>     by visiting the site at.
>>     www.britishsportscarhall.org <http://www.britishsportscarhall.org>
>>     *From:* Tom <mailto:ah3000me at gmail.com>
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, November 28, 2018 6:00 AM
>>     *To:* healeys at autox.team.net <mailto:healeys at autox.team.net>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)
>>     I found the voltage regulator was misadjusted when i got my car. 
>>     At 17V, a new pump quit working in less than a year.  At 14V, the
>>     replacement is 10 years old and happily ticking away.
>>     Tom
>>     On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 9:16 PM Frank Magnusson <fmags at cox.net
>>     <mailto:fmags at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Bob,
>>
>>         I’m also not sure why you’re having problems with pumps. 
>>         Maybe something common between all of them; the vent, the
>>         ground, the venting of the fuel system, etc.
>>
>>         I replaced my original pump in the late 80’s with a stock SU
>>         pump with points and it’s been on the car ever since; no
>>         problems except last year when it didn’t want to start, but a
>>         rap with a rubber mallet and it’s been working ever since.
>>
>>         Try Healey Surgeons for a replacement pump.  Their parts are
>>         100% correct and I’ve never had a problem with anything from
>>         them in almost 30 years.
>>
>>         Best of luck,
>>
>>         Frank
>>
>>         ’65 BJ8
>>
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