I actually think the Vredesteins suck. They follow the rain grooves and are very nervous feeling. The old Michelin XZX in 165 were nicer than these Vredesteins in 185/70. Yokohamas were also nice but not available anymore. I should have waited for the Pirelli CN36 reproductions. They were great in the 1970's. Ken Freese 65 BJ8