<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Yes, leaks are feasible, though I never had a problem. The benefits of annular bearings are substantial—self-adjusting, no radial thrust. Properly set up they are a very neat solution. But yes, you take a chance of leaking. <br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Aug 19, 2024, at 6:35 AM, Robert Lang via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div><div class="ydpd1b2149dyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Hi,</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I'll jump in again...</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Yes, real production cars have been using annular bearings for a long time. No question. Retrofitting these t/o bearings to our cars can have issues.<br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">You don't have to mess up the dimensions very much to wind up with a problem.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">There aren't any bolt-in setups that I've had my hands on. I'd be prone to trust the Vitesse setup (Miata gears in a NEW case and bellhousing) as that is a bolt-in. But I haven't had my hands on one, so no data point. As I recall, one of the issues with the aftermarket setups is matching the input shaft housing to the aftermarket part. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that if you're not a machinist or you have access to a really knowlegable machinist, there are ways to screw it up.<br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Regarding clutches - not everyone runs a racing clutch. I use OEM style clutches because I'm not trying to spin the engine like a rotary etc. And I don't build for 3x OEM power. All this is for reliability vs max performance. Also, even with the stock setup, there are ways to screw it up and folks will blame the parts rather than an improper installation... because you can. For example, I've fixed a lot of TR6 clutch problems just by using the proper alignment bolts - this occurs pretty frequently... probably 30% of the cars that I've worked on. <br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">So, part of the discussion is related to how you will be using the setup, e.g. "real vintage" or "real racing" and then go from there. Racing philosophy also plays into this. And it is possible to make the stock stuff work well and reliably without a lot of engineering.<br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Just my "tuppence".</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Regards.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Bob Lang<br></div><div><br></div>
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On Monday, August 19, 2024 at 09:14:16 AM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
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I'm amazed to hear all of these stories of bad experiences.</div>
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Many production cars and race cars have used these for years. Saab used them for ~40 years.</div>
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Many aftermarket manufacturers make them. Tilton, QuarterMaster, PowerTrain, ...</div>
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Are people using poor quality units, or are they being installed incorrectly?</div>
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Remember that aftermarket/race clutches often require 50-100% more force to disengage than the stock clutch, especially the smaller units.</div>
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Has anyone observed or measured the twist and bend on the stock cross shaft when paired with a race clutch?</div>
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I guess if your bushings are worn enough, then the assembly can tolerate this distortion.</div>
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<div id="ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302yqt50719" class="ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302yqt4391177287"><div dir="ltr" id="ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302divRplyFwdMsg"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;"><b>From:</b> Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot@autox.team.net><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 19, 2024 8:01 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Bert Brown <moosehd2@pacbell.net><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> Friends of Triumph Group Email <fot@autox.team.net><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] TR6 Race Clutch Release Bearing - Hydraulic or Standard wSlave Cylinder?</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Sebring 2020, internal throwout bearing leaking.
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<div dir="ltr" class="ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302x_gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 1:14 AM Bert Brown via Fot <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">I was just at the Monterey Historics this weekend hanging out with 2 racer friends and one of their friends pops into our pit space with the news that his internal hydraulic release bearing leaked in the Friday session and the clutch was inoperable.
He had a Cobra and pulling a trans in one of those cars is an absolute bitch! He wanted to know what our experience was with these bearings and if we had a replacement. Everyone said they have had many problems with hydraulic leaks with these internal release
bearings and "no", they didn't have a spare. </div>
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<div dir="ltr">Everyone's vote at our pit was to use the external linkage and slave cylinder. When I used to go to the track with my car I always carried spare hydraulics and the external cylinder on my Spit was a snap to change.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">By the way the Cobra guy couldn't find a replacement at the track and loaded his car on his trailer and missed his race. All because of a damn internal hydraulic release bearing that he never thought he would have to replace! Racing is fun!</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Bert Brown</div>
<div dir="ltr">ex GP Spitfire</div>
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<div>On Sunday, August 18, 2024 at 07:59:48 PM PDT, Charly via Fot <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:
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<div dir="ltr">Mark, I have always run the 'stock' style T.O. bearing. I've run several different clutches, from Laycock to Tilton, and have always had good luck with it.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">I've known several TR racers who have used the 'hydraulic' type mechanism and have always had problems at the track and have been difficult if not impossible to fix.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">My vote is the stock linkage and a Tilton clutch, <br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">BTW, car is still for sale.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Charly Mitchel<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">On Sun 18/08/24 7:05 PM , Mark Cook via Fot <a shape="rect" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
fot@autox.team.net</a> sent:<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> So, I one of my TR6s has a close ratio transmission with Mcleod hydraulic<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> release bearing, which is leaking. While there, trying to decide on<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> whether to go back to a stock bearing, yoke etc, with an external slave<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> cylinder. For reference, as part of the engine rebuild, going with the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> Racetorations Arrow billet crank, 7 1/4" lightweight flywheel, cover<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> and four paddle clutch disc. <br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> Not keen on having to remove the transmission for seal leaks related to the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> hydraulic release bearing. At the same time not familiar enough to know if<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> a hydraulic release bearing's failure rate is any worse than a standard<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> release bearing. Everything I have read makes the hydraulic bearing seem<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> more sensitive to initial set up as well.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> Thoughts?<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> Thanks,<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">> Mark Cook<br clear="none">
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