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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=DE link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Backlash is okay. Pinion too deep in the ringgear.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Good to see how thin the ringgear teeth are now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If the ringgear sits too deep, then the pinion grind on the tooth edge which makes them thin.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This is the “drive” side of the tooth.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Very good to see how the contact is close to the inner side of the tooth, as the pinion is too deep.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>And the next thing visible, to get the recommended back leash you pulled the ring gear out of engagement, visible how high the white color sits on the tooth.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I suppose it gave some squeal noises?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Squeal noises of a diff means always: Hey, there is something wrong….please adjust me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Squeal on the forward drive – no go.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Squeal on the off throttle – if not too loud, permitted.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><img width=841 height=632 style='width:8.7604in;height:6.5833in' id="_x0000_i1029" src="cid:image005.jpg@01D44E17.0BE3A670" alt=image2.jpeg><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>Von:</b> Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Greg Blake via Fot<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 16. September 2018 20:48<br><b>An:</b> Fot <fot@autox.team.net><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] Fwd: Crown and pinion gear break in<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Here are my setup notes and a few photos from the failed unit. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Backlash averaged 0.0055” measured at 4 locations 90 degrees apart each. Largest being 0.006 smallest 0.005. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Depth from bottom of saddle to top of pinion head 0.726”. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Pictures of gear mesh with this setup. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><img width=2016 height=1512 style='width:21.0in;height:15.75in' id="_x0033_E2CACC5-8E00-4B5B-B051-F646A283219F" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D44E15.AE55B800" alt=image1.jpeg><img width=2016 height=1512 style='width:21.0in;height:15.75in' id=F27986DE-2A18-442A-AF1D-D486D9F1612D src="cid:image002.jpg@01D44E15.AE55B800" alt=image2.jpeg><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Picture of failed pinion gear. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><img width=2016 height=1512 style='width:21.0in;height:15.75in' id=E27D42DC-9E94-4DEC-93B8-EF080ECC0F87 src="cid:image003.jpg@01D44E15.AE55B800" alt=image3.jpeg><o:p></o:p></p><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>And companion ring gear. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><img width=2016 height=1512 style='width:21.0in;height:15.75in' id=DE51EC74-B569-4EEC-AC1C-66DB1D425D36 src="cid:image004.jpg@01D44E15.AE55B800" alt=image4.jpeg><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>I made a hell of a mess.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>It looks like I set the pinion too deep into the case by the write ups I’ve reviewed. But looking at the gear mess, it looks like I was pretty close. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>What do y’all think?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Sep 13, 2018, at 3:45 PM, Michael Porter <<a href="mailto:mdporter@dfn.com">mdporter@dfn.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 9/13/2018 4:52 AM, Greg Blake wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Speaking of pattern, Chris mentioned that the Bastuck gear sets are Oerlikon as opposed to Gleason gears. Apparently they require a different mesh pattern. Does anyone have a good resource for pictures of the proper mesh pattern for the Oerlikon type gears? I can not find one. I contacted Bastuck with no luck there. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal>This might help:<br><br><a href="https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/ring-and-pinion-gear-selection-for-optimal-performance/">https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/ring-and-pinion-gear-selection-for-optimal-performance/</a><br><br>Note that in the section on hobbed gears (Oerlikon type), I think the first photo has the toe and heel conditions reversed in the description, and it looks to me as if they're using the same set of photos for both types of gear (the hobbed gear has uniform tooth height and the top of the tooth changes thickness from heel to toe, while the milled gear has non-uniform tooth height and uniform tooth thickness at the top, but to me, the dimensions of the teeth look the same in both sets of photos). There's also general recommendations on break-in.<br><br>This is the closest I've come to finding a comparison of the meshing of the two types, even if it has errors, and some shortcuts in the descriptions. This, though, is simpler, and might be helpful:<br><br><a href="http://canadawideparts.com/downloads/dana_tooth_pattern.pdf">http://canadawideparts.com/downloads/dana_tooth_pattern.pdf</a><br><br>Truthfully, I don't see much difference in the two sets of examples. With regard to set-up, the crucial difference in the two types is where optimum tooth thickness occurs in relation to optimum backlash. One thing that these guides don't say is that hypoid gears, whether with standard helical pinions or worm-gear pinions, don't tolerate lack of backlash. I once worked in the shipping department of Boston Digital in Massachusetts as a lowly temp back in the mid-`80s, and my boss was grumbling about how the company was in trouble and it was going to affect his profit-sharing. So, what happened? "Big troubles with the fifth-axis on the 5-axis milling machines." And? "They use a hypoid worm and ring gear to operate it and it's failing early." And? "The engineers don't understand why." It turned out that they'd set up the ring gear set to zero backlash to eliminate the slop in the gear set because the encoders they were using couldn't compensate, and, of course, the gears wore out prematurely, and because none of them had an automotive background, they didn't understand that they'd created the failure themselves through bad design. And, they were Indian, like the rest of management, and the culture in India is that the upper classes are never wrong, so they simply couldn't acknowledge that they'd created the problem. The answer was to use absolute measurement such as flexible glass rules (which require no correction) and add backlash, but I don't know that they ever did that.<br><br><br>Cheers.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Michael Porter<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Roswell, NM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....<o:p></o:p></pre></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>