<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I’m being a bit facetious, I understand what people mean (sort of) but I’ve heard “Horsepower wins sales, torque wins races.” and the equivalent spoken or written sagely, with solemn nods all around, too many times not to comment. One is a functional equivalent of the other, both in a mathematical and practical sense. The relationship is linear. Torque is force. Horsepower includes a circular distance component to express work. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As you say, the numbers for the power and torque curves should equate at every point (adjusted by the function). The fact that they often don’t is ridiculous—horsepower measured by a dyno is calculated from torque and RPM, not directly measured. The shorthand bullshit detector for dyno curves expressed in Imperial units of ft-lbs and horsepower is to see if the curves cross at 5252 RPM. Many don’t, including those published in car magazines. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Sheesh. <br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Larry Young via Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" class="">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
P = T*R/5252 <br class="">
When people talk about a torquey engine, they usually mean it makes
its power a low revs. <br class="">
<br class="">
I once ran an engine on two different rolling road dynos (a Dynojet
and a Mustang Dyno. The guys at the dyno shop said the second one
would give less hp because they used a brake in their setup. I said,
"you didn't calibrate for that"? They backpedaled and gave me a line
of BS. Then the power and torque curves they produced did not agree
with the equation. To get an explanation, I worked my way up the
chain and eventually talked to the dyno companies head "technical"
guy. He said he thought it must be the calibration! I said, "it is
basic physics, like saying F = ma". Since then, I have never trusted
dyno numbers. Good for comparative tuning runs only and of course,
bench racing.<br class="">
- Larry<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/2/2018 10:46 PM, Bill via Fot
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:Wu2u1y01V15GZSQ01u2w82" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
It always puzzles me when people say that. Horsepower is torque
times RPM (and a conversion factor). Torque is horsepower/RPM. So
how can one count more than the other? <br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Sep 2, 2018, at 4:13 PM, Mordy Dunst via Fot
<<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">Its the torque that counts. So, I suspect the
motor enhancements took the benefit of the tractor stroke.
If the motor is able to produce that power at 6k rpm
with shift at 6500.
<div class="">I shift at @ 6200 - my motor
produces max power @5800 on the dyno. I use a kastner
designed cam for which I have the masters. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> <br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div id="__aol_mail_signature__" class="">MDunst
<a dir="ltr" href="http://headgasket.com/" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="link" x-apple-data-detectors-result="0" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Headgasket.com</a>
<a dir="ltr" href="tel:626.358.1616" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="1" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">626.358.1616</a>
<div class="">Fax <a dir="ltr" href="tel:626.628.3777" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="2" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">626.628.3777</a> </div>
<div class="">Triple R Munitions, Inc
<a dir="ltr" href="tel:626.201.9471" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="3" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">626.201.9471</a> </div>
<div class="">T
FFL 6,7 SOT 2</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="aolmail_replyHeader"> On Sunday, September
2, 2018, John Styduhar via Fot <<a dir="ltr" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="link" x-apple-data-detectors-result="4" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 9px;padding:0 0 0 9px;" class="">
<div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_6f74e8be-4e7c-4103-89ed-2529f44cfade" class="">
<div class="aolReplacedBody">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">What kind of
modifications were done to the engine to
extract over 200 HP from a tractor engine?
Nitrous shot.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="">On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at
3:05 PM Thomas Boyd <<a href="mailto:tom@trenterprises.com" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">tom@trenterprises.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto" class="">
<div class="">All of our FIA race cars are
running legal 87mm engines.</div>
<div id="m_8321584711312764493AppleMailSignature" class="">Just rolling roaded the latest
SLR build at well north of 200bhp<br class="">
<br class="">
Thomas Boyd
<div class="">Director</div>
<div class="">TR Enterprises</div>
<div class=""><a dir="ltr" href="tel:01623%20793807;302" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="6" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">01623
793807 (ext 302)</a></div>
<div class=""><a href="http://www.trenterprises.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.trenterprises.com</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
On 1 Sep 2018, at 17:02, John Styduhar via
Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">If you
really had serious compliance with
most group's rules, I would guess
half the TR cars would not pass
muster. Let's have fun together. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="">On Sat, Sep 1,
2018 at 9:40 AM Terry Stetler via
Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="">
<div class="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">Indeed
there are Glen.</p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal">Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">
Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" class="">
<div id="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class=""><font style="font-size:11pt" class="" face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><b class="">
From:</b> Fot <<a href="mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>>
on behalf of fubog1 via Fot
<<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b>
Saturday, September 1, 2018
7:34:26 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:rkramer56@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rkramer56@gmail.com</a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re:
[Fot] 89MM piston question</font>
<div class=""> </div>
</div>
<div class=""><font class="" size="2" face="Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:
arial, helvetica; font-size:
10pt;" class="">
<div id="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104AOLMsgPart_2_9833cc70-880c-4ad8-a3c6-7dd354e849c9" class=""><font class="" size="2" face="Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif">
<blockquote style="border-left:2px
solid
blue;padding-left:3px" class="">everybody
else seems to be using
89.<br class="">
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class=""><font class="" size="2">HaHa
not everybody,
rules say 87mm,
there are still a
few guys running
them (and
winning)...<br class="">
</font></div>
<div class=""><font class="" size="2">Glen
<br class="">
</font></div>
<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family:
arial, helvetica;
font-size: 10pt;" class="">-----Original
Message-----<br class="">
From: Bob Kramer via
Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class="">
To: van.mulders.marcel
<<a href="mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be</a>><br class="">
Cc: fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class="">
Sent: Fri, Aug 31,
2018 11:26 pm<br class="">
Subject: Re: [Fot]
89MM piston question<br class="">
<br class="">
<div id="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104AOLMsgPart_1.2_a86129b9-5eb9-4e6e-bc70-68cf0b670447" class="">
<div class="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104aolReplacedBody">
<div dir="ltr" class="">I've
always used 87
MM due to the
rules but
everybody else
seems to be
using 89. The
procedures are
the same so
It'll be the
same. I blew a
head gasket last
time out,
compression into
the cooling
system and blew
off the bottom
hose. I guess it
wasn't tight
enough, and
scuffed two
pistons
before I could
shut it down. </div>
<div class="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104aolmail_gmail_extra"><br class="" clear="all">
<div class="">
<div class="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104aolmail_gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Bob
Kramer</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104aolmail_gmail_quote">On
Fri, Aug 31,
2018 at 12:43
PM, <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a rel="noopener
noreferrer" href="mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104aolmail_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="">
<div style="font-family:
Verdana,
Arial,
Helvetica,
sans-serif;
font-size:
10pt;" class="">
<div class="">Bob,</div>
<div class="">It
is definitely
necessary to
make that
modification
to the liners.
The relieve
should
correspond to
the shape of
the combustion
chambers :
about 4 mm
wide on a 89mm
engine.</div>
<div class="">Marcel</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<hr id="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104aolmail_m_-391070137228553199zwchr" class="">
<div class=""><b class="">Van:
</b>"fot" <<a rel="noopener
noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:
</b>"fot" <<a rel="noopener
noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Verzonden:
</b>Donderdag
30 augustus
2018 00:05:43<br class="">
<b class="">Onderwerp:
</b>[Fot] 89MM
piston
question<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Do
the guys
running the
89MM pistons
and liners
need to
relieve the
liners to
clear the
intake valve,
or does the
extra MM make
the
difference?<br class="">
<div class="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104aolmail_gmail_extra"><br class="" clear="all">
<div class="">
<div class="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104aolmail_m_-391070137228553199gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Bob
Kramer</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="m_8321584711312764493m_8355303263618601104aolmail_gmail_quote">On
Tue, </div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fot-racing.com/">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br class="">
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Donate: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br class="">
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br class="">
Unsubscribe/Manage:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com</a><br class="">
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<pre wrap="" class="">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fot-racing.com/">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>
Donate: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>
Unsubscribe/Manage: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel@pobox.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel@pobox.com</a>
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_______________________________________________<br class=""><a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" class="">fot@autox.team.net</a><br class=""><br class="">http://www.fot-racing.com<br class=""><br class="">Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br class="">Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br class="">Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>