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<div> <font size="2">#1 cause of failure- dirt 40+%.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">#2 cause of failure- assembly error 40+% (note assemblers responsibility to ensure parts are to spec)<br>
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<div><font size="2">This is part of the problem with rebuilt failures, it isn't all "defective parts".</font></div>
<div><font size="2">HTH</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Glen</font><br>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 3px;">problems came in when people used aftermarket parts or tuning parts.</blockquote></div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Chris Marx via Fot <fot@autox.team.net><br>
To: tr4racing <tr4racing@googlemail.com>; pegandbobm <pegandbobm@aol.com>; rkrantz77 <rkrantz77@comcast.net>; fot <fot@autox.team.net>; Fubog1 <Fubog1@aol.com><br>
Sent: Wed, Aug 29, 2018 5:37 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Do(o)med or flat lifters?<br>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Let me add:</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Standard means….from factory</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Tuning means…..from so called “experts”</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">I don’t know how much experts they are but one thing is obvious.</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">In the past, Triumph seems not to have much trouble with camshafts…..problems came in when people used aftermarket parts or tuning parts.</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">This is always suspicious to me.</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Cheers</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Chris</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><b>Von:</b> <a href="mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com">tr4racing@googlemail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com">tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>> <br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 25. Juli 2018 07:54<br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:pegandbobm@aol.com">pegandbobm@aol.com</a>; <a href="mailto:rkrantz77@comcast.net">rkrantz77@comcast.net</a>; <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>; <a href="mailto:Fubog1@aol.com">Fubog1@aol.com</a>; <a href="mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com">tr4racing@googlemail.com</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> AW: [Fot] Do(o)med or flat lifters?</div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">I had a look around German forums and it seems to be a difference between tuning and standard engines.</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Standard – flat</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Tuning – domed.</span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><b>Von:</b> <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:pegandbobm@aol.com">pegandbobm@aol.com</a> <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:pegandbobm@aol.com">pegandbobm@aol.com</a>> <br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 23. Juli 2018 22:17<br>
<b>An:</b> <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:rkrantz77@comcast.net">rkrantz77@comcast.net</a>; <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>; <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:Fubog1@aol.com">Fubog1@aol.com</a>; <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com">tr4racing@googlemail.com</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] Do(o)med or flat lifters?</div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Not an expert but I WILL GUARANTEE the lifters in my air cooled German made VW Formula Vee engine have a slight radius/angle. I check this before each rebuild to ensure they have not flatten. Pre-Trump I think Germany was still considered part of Europe> </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> Bob </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Ron KRANTZ via Fot <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
To: Christian Marx via Fot <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>>; Fubog1@aol. com <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:Fubog1@aol.com">Fubog1@aol.com</a>>; Christian Marx <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com">tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>><br>
Sent: Mon, Jul 23, 2018 1:46 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Do(o)med or flat lifters?</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">The reason for a slight angel on the lifter is to keep it from digging into the ramp on the cam lobe due to an aggressive acceleration design. Typical American (cannot say what European mfg. does) lifters have approximately a 60 inch radius. I even have an additional edge radius put on the lifters. The cam lobes have a slight taper side to side for rotating the lifter. Lift on a cam is limited by base circle radius which in turn is limited by cam bearing diameter. Then you get into duration and how fast you can get the valve open. All the Triumph "flat" tappets I have ever seen have a slight radius. The rules say you must retain the same type (flat, roller, mushroom) lifter as stock. My question is "how flat is flat". Rule does not say the lifter has to rotate. If a lifter has a 0.75 inch radius across the lifter diameter and no taper on the cam lobe,you can keep the lifter from rotating and accelerate the cam opening very fast. Think about that.</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On July 23, 2018 at 8:46 AM Christian Marx via Fot <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">This may be true for American engines. </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">All European engines have no angel in the Cam shaft. And all the tappets, lifters, rollers, are flat. Dead flat. No light with an edge on it.</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">So maybe this is just an American thing?</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Cheers Chris</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">fubog1 < <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fubog1@aol.com">fubog1@aol.com</a>> schrieb am Mo., 23. Juli 2018, 15:40: </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">This is well covered in many engine-building books & I've discussed it at length with several camshaft engineers over the years.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">It's my understanding that the lobe should have a very slight angle ground in, and the "flat" tappet really isn't, it's very slightly convex. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">This will give it rotation, if it doesn't rotate it will wear.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">There could also be spring pressure or lubrication issues?</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">In any case I would discuss it with the tappet supplier before doing anything, at the least make sure that they are sufficiently hard to begin with and can be reground.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message----- <br>
From: Christian Marx via Fot < <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>> <br>
To: fot@autox. team. net < <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>> <br>
Sent: Mon, Jul 23, 2018 6:04 am <br>
Subject: [Fot] Do(o)med or flat lifters? </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">In the past we had this discussion. </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I've bought some high quality lifters from USA, made from tool steel I suppose. 400$ they've cost..... and started to fail. On 3 of them, the very center does show e few pittings. Also visible that only a small part of the Cam is used.. The cam is okay</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The machine shop will grind the lifters dead flat, as they should be, they say.</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Cheers</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Chris</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Am 18.07.2018 02:12 schrieb "fubog1 via Fot" < <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>>: </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Yes, lacking access to a Cam Doc, you can use a set of V or bearing blocks, a degree wheel, dial indicator, and a bit of time, checked at 5 cam degrees, works fine.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I'm still old school though, I plot them out on graph paper!</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">That will give you the lobe profile but most folks don't have the full specs on the cam, usually just advertised lift and duration.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Since the tip of the lobe usually starts to go away first, a simple lift measurement will reveal the worst, best done with a dial indicator cuz some (cheap) cams are ground on different base circles.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Generally, ramp wear is unusual if the tip is still OK, although there can be exceptions.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message----- <br>
From: timmmurphh < <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com">timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>> <br>
To: 'fubog1' < <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fubog1@aol.com">fubog1@aol.com</a>>; rbtr3a < <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:rbtr3a@cox.net">rbtr3a@cox.net</a>> <br>
Sent: Tue, Jul 17, 2018 12:38 pm <br>
Subject: RE: [Fot] Cams </span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">By degreeing the cam using increments of 10 crankshaft degrees (5 camshaft degrees) and then plotting the results in Excel, it is possible to get a very accurate picture of the profile of the cam.</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I’ve attached a spreadsheet showing an intake and exhaust lobe comparison two years apart of our Kastner G3 cam for reference.</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Tim Murphy</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">#317 TR4</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> Fot <fot- <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:bounces@autox.team.net">bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On Behalf Of </span></strong>fubog1 via Fot <br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong> Monday, July 16, 2018 6:31 AM <br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To:</span></strong> <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:rbtr3a@cox.net">rbtr3a@cox.net</a>; <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a> <br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [Fot] Cams</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Generally any obvious wear or pitting would make it unserviceable, but the wear isn't always so obvious.</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">You can measure the lift and compare to spec, that will show any worn lobes, but the best way is to find someone who has a "cam doctor". It's a machine that sets it up and measures the complete profile.</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Usually if there is anything apparent that suggests that there may be problems, there are...</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen</span></div>
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<div class="aolmail_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: rbtr3a--- via Fot <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
To: fot <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
Sent: Sun, Jul 15, 2018 6:47 pm<br>
Subject: [Fot] Cams<br>
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How do I determine if a cam is good or bad. If there are any marks on it does that make it bad. I do know that two of the lifters has pitting on the surface. <br>
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Ronnie<br>
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