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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">While I have my engines built I have been in the engine aftermarket selling parts for Federal Mogul and Dane as well as Mahle since 1983. I have never seen a
flat bottom lifter yet. They all have a crown/bevel/high spot on them. They have been called flat tappets for a zillion years but it is an inaccurate description.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;line-height:105%"><a href="dieselperformanceparts.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="144" height="56" id="Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image001.png@01D4232F.D2F56680" alt="http://dieselperformanceparts.com/media/mail/logo_small_dppi.png"></span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:red;text-transform:uppercase;letter-spacing:1.2pt">Mark Craig<br>
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Diesel Performance Parts, Inc.<br>
411 Allied Drive, Nashville, TN 37211<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.dieselperformanceparts.com/"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0563C1">www.dieselperformanceparts.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Phone: 615-834-0066<br>
Fax: 615-834-9923<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:mark@dieselperformanceparts.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">mark@dieselperformanceparts.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>pegandbobm--- via Fot<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 23, 2018 3:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> rkrantz77@comcast.net; fot@autox.team.net; Fubog1@aol.com; tr4racing@googlemail.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Do(o)med or flat lifters?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Not an expert but I WILL GUARANTEE the lifters in my air cooled German made VW Formula Vee engine have a slight radius/angle. I check this before each rebuild to
ensure they have not flatten. Pre-Trump I think Germany was still considered part of Europe>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> Bob <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Ron KRANTZ via Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
To: Christian Marx via Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>>; Fubog1@aol. com <<a href="mailto:Fubog1@aol.com">Fubog1@aol.com</a>>; Christian Marx <<a href="mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com">tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>><br>
Sent: Mon, Jul 23, 2018 1:46 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Do(o)med or flat lifters?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">The reason for a slight angel on the lifter is to keep it from digging into the ramp on the cam lobe due to an aggressive acceleration design. Typical American (cannot say
what European mfg. does) lifters have approximately a 60 inch radius. I even have an additional edge radius put on the lifters. The cam lobes have a slight taper side to side for rotating the lifter. Lift on a cam is limited by base circle radius which
in turn is limited by cam bearing diameter. Then you get into duration and how fast you can get the valve open. All the Triumph "flat" tappets I have ever seen have a slight radius. The rules say you must retain the same type (flat, roller, mushroom) lifter
as stock. My question is "how flat is flat". Rule does not say the lifter has to rotate. If a lifter has a 0.75 inch radius across the lifter diameter and no taper on the cam lobe,you can keep the lifter from rotating and accelerate the cam opening very
fast. Think about that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On July 23, 2018 at 8:46 AM Christian Marx via Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">This may be true for American engines.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">All European engines have no angel in the Cam shaft. And all the tappets, lifters, rollers, are flat. Dead flat. No light with an edge on it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">So maybe this is just an American thing?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Cheers Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">fubog1 <
<a href="mailto:fubog1@aol.com" target="_blank">fubog1@aol.com</a>> schrieb am Mo., 23. Juli 2018, 15:40:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">This is well covered in many engine-building books & I've discussed it at length with several camshaft engineers over the years.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">It's my understanding that the lobe should have a very slight angle ground in, and the "flat" tappet really isn't, it's very slightly convex.
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">This will give it rotation, if it doesn't rotate it will wear.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">There could also be spring pressure or lubrication issues?</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">In any case I would discuss it with the tappet supplier before doing anything, at the least make sure that they are sufficiently hard to begin with and can be reground.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message-----
<br>
From: Christian Marx via Fot < <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">
fot@autox.team.net</a>> <br>
To: fot@autox. team. net < <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
<br>
Sent: Mon, Jul 23, 2018 6:04 am <br>
Subject: [Fot] Do(o)med or flat lifters? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">In the past we had this discussion.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I've bought some high quality lifters from USA, made from tool steel I suppose. 400$ they've cost..... and started to fail. On 3 of them, the very center does show
e few pittings. Also visible that only a small part of the Cam is used.. The cam is okay<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The machine shop will grind the lifters dead flat, as they should be, they say.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Am 18.07.2018 02:12 schrieb "fubog1 via Fot" <
<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>>: <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Yes, lacking access to a Cam Doc, you can use a set of V or bearing blocks, a degree wheel, dial indicator, and a bit of time, checked at 5 cam degrees, works fine.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I'm still old school though, I plot them out on graph paper!</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">That will give you the lobe profile but most folks don't have the full specs on the cam, usually just advertised lift and duration.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Since the tip of the lobe usually starts to go away first, a simple lift measurement will reveal the worst, best done with a dial indicator cuz some (cheap) cams are ground on different
base circles.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Generally, ramp wear is unusual if the tip is still OK, although there can be exceptions.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message-----
<br>
From: timmmurphh < <a href="mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com" target="_blank">timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
To: 'fubog1' < <a href="mailto:fubog1@aol.com" target="_blank">fubog1@aol.com</a>>; rbtr3a <
<a href="mailto:rbtr3a@cox.net" target="_blank">rbtr3a@cox.net</a>> <br>
Sent: Tue, Jul 17, 2018 12:38 pm <br>
Subject: RE: [Fot] Cams <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">By degreeing the cam using increments of 10 crankshaft degrees (5 camshaft degrees) and then plotting the results in Excel, it is possible to get a very accurate
picture of the profile of the cam.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I’ve attached a spreadsheet showing an intake and exhaust lobe comparison two years apart of our Kastner G3 cam for reference.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Tim Murphy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">#317 TR4<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> Fot <fot-
<a href="mailto:bounces@autox.team.net">bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On Behalf Of
</span></strong>fubog1 via Fot <br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong> Monday, July 16, 2018 6:31 AM
<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To:</span></strong> <a href="mailto:rbtr3a@cox.net">
rbtr3a@cox.net</a>; <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a> <br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [Fot] Cams<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Generally any obvious wear or pitting would make it unserviceable, but the wear isn't always so obvious.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">You can measure the lift and compare to spec, that will show any worn lobes, but the best way is to find someone who has a "cam doctor". It's a machine that sets
it up and measures the complete profile.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Usually if there is anything apparent that suggests that there may be problems, there are...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: rbtr3a--- via Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
To: fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
Sent: Sun, Jul 15, 2018 6:47 pm<br>
Subject: [Fot] Cams<br>
<br>
How do I determine if a cam is good or bad. If there are any marks on it does that make it bad. I do know that two of the lifters has pitting on the surface.
<br>
<br>
Ronnie<br>
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