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</head><body><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">The reason for a slight angel on the lifter is to keep it from digging into the ramp on the cam lobe due to an aggressive acceleration design. Typical American (cannot say what European mfg. does) lifters have approximately a 60 inch radius. I even have an additional edge radius put on the lifters. The cam lobes have a slight taper side to side for rotating the lifter. Lift on a cam is limited by base circle radius which in turn is limited by cam bearing diameter. Then you get into duration and how fast you can get the valve open. All the Triumph "flat" tappets I have ever seen have a slight radius. The rules say you must retain the same type (flat, roller, mushroom) lifter as stock. My question is "how flat is flat". Rule does not say the lifter has to rotate. If a lifter has a 0.75 inch radius across the lifter diameter and no taper on the cam lobe,you can keep the lifter from rotating and accelerate the cam opening very fast. Think about that.<br></p><blockquote type="cite">On July 23, 2018 at 8:46 AM Christian Marx via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote: <br> <br><div dir="auto">This may be true for American engines.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">All European engines have no angel in the Cam shaft. And all the tappets, lifters, rollers, are flat. Dead flat. No light with an edge on it.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So maybe this is just an American thing?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers Chris</div></div><br><div class="ox-e058c482ad-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">fubog1 < <a href="mailto:fubog1@aol.com">fubog1@aol.com</a>> schrieb am Mo., 23. Juli 2018, 15:40: <br></div><blockquote><div><span style="font-size: small;">This is well covered in many engine-building books & I've discussed it at length with several camshaft engineers over the years.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;">It's my understanding that the lobe should have a very slight angle ground in, and the "flat" tappet really isn't, it's very slightly convex. <br> </span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;">This will give it rotation, if it doesn't rotate it will wear.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;">There could also be spring pressure or lubrication issues?</span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;">In any case I would discuss it with the tappet supplier before doing anything, at the least make sure that they are sufficiently hard to begin with and can be reground.<br> </span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;"><br> </span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;">Glen<br> </span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">-----Original Message----- <br> From: Christian Marx via Fot < <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">fot@autox.team.net</a>> <br> To: fot@autox. team. net < <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">fot@autox.team.net</a>> <br> Sent: Mon, Jul 23, 2018 6:04 am <br> Subject: [Fot] Do(o)med or flat lifters? <br> <br><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolReplacedBody"><div dir="auto">In the past we had this discussion.<div dir="auto">I've bought some high quality lifters from USA, made from tool steel I suppose. 400$ they've cost..... and started to fail. On 3 of them, the very center does show e few pittings. Also visible that only a small part of the Cam is used.. The cam is okay</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The machine shop will grind the lifters dead flat, as they should be, they say.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers</div><div dir="auto">Chris</div></div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_gmail_extra"><br><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_gmail_quote">Am 18.07.2018 02:12 schrieb "fubog1 via Fot" < <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">fot@autox.team.net</a>>: <br><blockquote><div><span style="font-size: small;">Yes, lacking access to a Cam Doc, you can use a set of V or bearing blocks, a degree wheel, dial indicator, and a bit of time, checked at 5 cam degrees, works fine.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;">I'm still old school though, I plot them out on graph paper!<br> </span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;">That will give you the lobe profile but most folks don't have the full specs on the cam, usually just advertised lift and duration.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;">Since the tip of the lobe usually starts to go away first, a simple lift measurement will reveal the worst, best done with a dial indicator cuz some (cheap) cams are ground on different base circles.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;">Generally, ramp wear is unusual if the tip is still OK, although there can be exceptions.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;"><br> </span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;">Glen.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: small;"><br> </span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">-----Original Message----- <br> From: timmmurphh < <a href="mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>> <br> To: 'fubog1' < <a href="mailto:fubog1@aol.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">fubog1@aol.com</a>>; rbtr3a < <a href="mailto:rbtr3a@cox.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">rbtr3a@cox.net</a>> <br> Sent: Tue, Jul 17, 2018 12:38 pm <br> Subject: RE: [Fot] Cams <br> <br><div id="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544AOLMsgPart_1.ox-e058c482ad-2_29f0e059-9a54-4bb0-97f3-60a994db6d64"><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolReplacedBody"><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_WordSection1"><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal">By degreeing the cam using increments of 10 crankshaft degrees (5 camshaft degrees) and then plotting the results in Excel, it is possible to get a very accurate picture of the profile of the cam.</div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"> </div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal">I’ve attached a spreadsheet showing an intake and exhaust lobe comparison two years apart of our Kastner G3 cam for reference.</div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"> </div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal">Tim Murphy</div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal">#317 TR4</div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"> </div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"><strong>From:</strong> Fot <fot- <a>bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>fubog1 via Fot <br> <strong>Sent:</strong> Monday, July 16, 2018 6:31 AM <br> <strong>To:</strong> <a>rbtr3a@cox.net</a>; <a>fot@autox.team.net</a> <br> <strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Fot] Cams</div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"> </div><div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: black;">Generally any obvious wear or pitting would make it unserviceable, but the wear isn't always so obvious.</span></div></div><div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: black;">You can measure the lift and compare to spec, that will show any worn lobes, but the best way is to find someone who has a "cam doctor". It's a machine that sets it up and measures the complete profile.</span></div></div><div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: black;">Usually if there is anything apparent that suggests that there may be problems, there are...</span></div></div><div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: black;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: black;">Glen</span></div></div><div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: black;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: black;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="ox-e058c482ad-m_-2886787827239258993aolmail_m_151265155674621544aolmail_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: black;">-----Original Message-----<br> From: rbtr3a--- via Fot <<a>fot@autox.team.net</a>><br> To: fot <<a>fot@autox.team.net</a>><br> Sent: Sun, Jul 15, 2018 6:47 pm<br> Subject: [Fot] Cams<br> <br> How do I determine if a cam is good or bad. If there are any marks on it does that make it bad. I do know that two of the lifters has pitting on the surface. <br> <br> Ronnie<br> _______________________________________________<br> <a>fot@autox.team.net</a><br> <br> <a>http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br> <br> Donate: <a>http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br> Archive: <a>http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br> Unsubscribe/Manage: <a>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1@aol.com</a><br> <br> </span></div></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________ <br> <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">fot@autox.team.net</a> <br> <br> <a href="http://www.fot-racing.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br> <br> Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br> Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br> Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing@googlemail.com</a> <br> <br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>_______________________________________________ <br> <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">fot@autox.team.net</a> <br> <br> <a href="http://www.fot-racing.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br> <br> Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br> Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br> Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1@aol.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1@aol.com</a> <br> <br> <br></div></blockquote></div>_______________________________________________ <br>fot@autox.team.net <br> <br>http://www.fot-racing.com <br> <br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <br>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkrantz77@comcast.net <br> <br> <br></blockquote></body></html>