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    I certainly never got to the level of Jack and haven't played with
    these cars as much as Glen, but during my brief racing career, I too
    experimented a lot with gearing. I tried most of the combinations
    Jack mentioned. My favorite was almost the same - close ratio TR box
    with overdrive and a 4.55 rear. My choice was partly because my home
    track, Hallett, is tight, well suited to a 4.55. I had the OD for
    longer straights. We (my son Tom and I) ended up using the OD a lot
    more than just the straights. Like someone else said, sometimes
    you're too busy or it is faster or more convenient to shift the
    overdrive. I always like to tell the story about the time a throw
    out bearing went bad and I couldn't shift the tranny, so I ran
    Hallett using just 3rd and 3rd-OD. I was off my best lap  by only
    about 1 second. However, there was one other time when we lost
    overdrive and had to limit our speed on the long straights.<br>
    <br>
    A final word I will say. I think a lot of people shy away from an
    overdrive because of "fear of the unknown". In reality they are
    simpler than the transmission. Some people want to just buy a unit
    and bolt it on. Regardless of the route you go, I think you're in
    for a rebuild. I've never rebuilt a 5 speed, but I've done 3 speeds
    and 4 speeds. If I extrapolate the differences in complexity, I
    really don't want to rebuild a 5-speed.<br>
     - Larry<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/19/2018 4:57 PM, Jack Wheeler via
      Fot wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:1229176934.7475844.1532037420166@mail.yahoo.com">
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        <div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
          sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
          <div>Hi Glen.  I agree with most of your comments.  I raced a
            TR-4 in SCCA for 24 years, and used both close ratio, and
            stock ratio gearboxes with, and without overdrive.  I always
            used the later housings (TR-4A - TR-6) and the "A" Type
            overdrive, and I did all my own maintenance.  Early in my
            career, I always thought a straight 4 speed (without
            overdrive) would be more efficient for racing, due to less
            parasitic losses.  When close ratio gears became legal
            (about 1980), I thought this would be a big improvement over
            the overdrive option.  I had all 6 gear sets set up for my
            IRS car, so I could gear to use either transmission option
            at all the tracks I raced at.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>However, after years of experimenting at Road Atlanta,
            during The Runoffs, I concluded that using a close ratio
            overdrive gearbox with the 4.3 rear end gear was about 1
            second per lap faster than using a straight 4 speed with the
            3.7 rear end gear.  The 4.3 rear gear gave me a more usable
            second gear for some tight turns (like turn 7 at Atlanta)
            than the 3.7 rear gear.  I also tried the 4.1 rear gear with
            the straight 4 Speed, but the overdrive option was still
            faster.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I did less research at other tracks, but long tracks with
            tight turns (like Road America) would certainly favor the
            overdrive option.  There may not be as much difference on
            short, tighter tracks.  But, numbers don't lie, and a second
            a lap was worth it to me, to learn about building and
            maintaining overdrives, with high pump pressure for quicker
            shifting.  And, I found them to be very reliable
            mechanically.  The only problems I ever had were electrical.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Take it for what it's worth, but that's my story, and I'm
            stickin' to it!</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Jack<br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div id="ydpd07ec044yahoo_quoted_2171699424"
          class="ydpd07ec044yahoo_quoted">
          <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
            sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
            <div> On Thursday, July 19, 2018, 5:30:21 PM EDT, fubog1 via
              Fot <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"><fot@autox.team.net></a> wrote: </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854">
                <div><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
                    color="black">
                  </font>
                  <div> <font size="2">In all fairness to the
                      conversion advocates, in spite of the benefit of
                      both intermediate gearing & the extra top gear
                      with the O/D unit, there are some downsides to the
                      O/D.</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">First, it's getting hard to find
                      good units, a lot of what I run into is junk.
                      These have been in high demand since forever, I've
                      bought many junk TRs just for the overdrives.</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">As Larry pointed out, there are
                      alternatives, ie Volvo, but then you have to mod
                      it to suit.</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">Unless you find a guaranteed
                      plug-and-play TR box & O/D assembly, you'll
                      most likely be having to go through the gearbox as
                      well, and certainly if you're converting a
                      standard gearbox to overdrive cuz' the mainshaft
                      is different.</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">That leads to another problem,
                      parts availability for overdrive parts is a bit
                      limited, especially some of the early A-type
                      stuff, and as is normal these days, quality is
                      always a big concern.</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">Then if you have a rebuildable
                      unit, and all of the parts, it has to be properly
                      rebuilt, by the book.</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">It's a fairly labor-intensive job
                      and requires some degree of mechanical finesse.</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
                    </font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">If you have to pay someone to do
                      the entire job, the cost could easily get up there
                      to the point where a conversion gets more
                      attractive.<br clear="none">
                    </font></div>
                  <div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
                    </font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">There are also a few other
                      negatives, the TR box & O/D unit may weigh
                      more than some alternative units, there is some
                      very slight power loss with the O/D, and some
                      replacements may have better ratios available.</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
                    </font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">Having said (typed) this, for a
                      street car, a later TR-6 box, with the 17 tooth
                      laygear, better 1st ratio & much-improved 2nd
                      mainshaft gear, with a J-type on the back of it is
                      hard to improve on.</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">For racing, late 6 box with a set
                      of close ratio gears & a "big piston" A-type
                      works well.</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
                    </font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">I see both side of the argument
                      but personally I like the TRs as TRs, iff'n in
                      doesn't say Stanpart on it, I'm not interested
                      (grin).<br clear="none">
                    </font></div>
                  <div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
                    </font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">Glen<br clear="none">
                    </font></div>
                  <div> <br clear="none">
                  </div>
                  <div style="font-family:arial,
                    helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">-----Original
                    Message-----<br clear="none">
                    From: Larry Young via Fot <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"><fot@autox.team.net></a><br
                      clear="none">
                    To: fot <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"><fot@autox.team.net></a><br clear="none">
                    Sent: Thu, Jul 19, 2018 12:32 pm<br clear="none">
                    Subject: Re: [Fot] best gearbox for TR6<br
                      clear="none">
                    <br clear="none">
                    <div class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854yqt4050296548"
                      id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854yqt20748">
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id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854AOLMsgPart_1.2_d6df0125-c4e5-4c26-884e-b81f2758b4d0">
                        <div
                          class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolReplacedBody">
                          Yeah, Glen is right. I should have shut up. I
                          did a cost comparison a few years ago. Someone
                          was making a Ford 5 speed conversion also. The
                          cost was more or less the same, but of course,
                          it depends on how much you are going to do
                          yourself. I have heard the Toyota boxes are
                          getting scarce also ($550 seems like a lot).
                          Quantum Mechanics does (or did) a turnkey A or
                          J type overdrive. He has everything you need
                          to convert a Volvo J-type to any of the TR
                          series. I've helped a couple of guys do this
                          conversion. Volvo's from the 80's are
                          relatively unloved, so a couple years ago I
                          could find the Volvo J-types on Ebay for $150.
                          Of course, buying the Volvo overdrive or a
                          Toyota 5 speed is just the tip of the iceberg.
                          If you want a turnkey deal that you install,
                          you're probably looking at $2500 - $3000
                          regardless of the route you go. If you do
                          everything yourself, you can probably get by
                          for half that.<br clear="none">
                          <br clear="none">
                          I've had my TR250 from new and didn't have an
                          overdrive until 5 years ago. I did a 7,000
                          mile road trip in it a couple of years ago and
                          found all 7 speeds to be useful. Even 2nd OD
                          was nice when stuck behind an RV going up a
                          mountain pass.<br clear="none">
                          <br clear="none">
                          Like I said, I should have kept quiet, but my
                          point is that I think you will find the cost
                          similar regardless of the direction you go. It
                          really boils down to what you prefer.<br
                            clear="none">
                           - Larry<br clear="none">
                          <br clear="none">
                          <div
                            class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-cite-prefix">On
                            7/19/2018 7:43 AM, Bill Tobin via Fot wrote:<br
                              clear="none">
                          </div>
                          <blockquote>
                            <div>I dunno larry, I got my conversion from
                              Eaglegate, who was also from New Mexico,
                              and it bolted in. Plug and play. Works
                              great, shifts smoothly, and  (so far!)
                              reliable.</div>
                            <div>Me being me, at the time, '13 I think,
                              I picked up two spare transmissions.
                              Celica W58. For about $175 each. A friend
                              with a wrecking yard looked them  up
                              yesterday: around $550. No, they are not
                              for sale!</div>
                            <div>I believe a guy in Kansas City took
                              over Eaglegate. If anyone is interested, I
                              could look it up.</div>
                            <div>Cheers, Bill<br clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <br clear="none">
                            <div
                              class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-cite-prefix">On
                              7/18/2018 11:56 PM, Larry Young via Fot
                              wrote:<br clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <blockquote> I'd rather have an A-type (or
                              even a J) overdrive - 7 gears, easier to
                              shift, easier to install, probably less
                              expensive - What's not to like? Keep the
                              wife definitely.<br clear="none">
                               - Larry<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              <div
                                class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-cite-prefix">On
                                7/14/2018 4:13 PM, dustin nicholson via
                                Fot wrote:<br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              <blockquote> Is the HVDA conversion kit
                                for the Toyota 5 speed still available
                                since Herman’s passing?
                                <div><br clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <div>Dusty <br clear="none">
                                  <br clear="none">
                                  <div
                                    id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_AppleMailSignature">Sent
                                    from my iPhone</div>
                                  <div><br clear="none">
                                    On Jul 12, 2018, at 8:05 PM, Bobby
                                    Whitehead via Fot <<a
                                      shape="rect"
                                      href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"
                                      rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
                                    wrote:<br clear="none">
                                    <br clear="none">
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote>
                                    <div>
                                      <div
                                        style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times
                                        new roman, new york, times,
                                        serif;font-size:13px;">
                                        <div
id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1531450952573_4207">My
                                          wife is trying to convince me
                                          to keep our 1971 TR6 we've
                                          owned for 26 years...mhhhh....
                                          I told her if we did I needed
                                          an overdrive or 5th
                                          gear...what's the best
                                          conversion?</div>
                                        <div
id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1531450952573_4268"><br
                                            clear="none">
                                        </div>
                                        <div
id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1531450952573_4269">Bobby
                                          Whitehead</div>
                                        <div>Jester's Racing<br
                                            clear="none">
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  <blockquote>
                                    <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br
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</pre>
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<a shape="rect" class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fot-racing.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>

Donate: <a shape="rect" class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a shape="rect" class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>
Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape="rect" class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin31@verizon.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin31@verizon.net</a>


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                            <pre>_______________________________________________
<a shape="rect" class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>

<a shape="rect" class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fot-racing.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>

Donate: <a shape="rect" class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a shape="rect" class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>
Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape="rect" class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel@pobox.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel@pobox.com</a>


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                    _______________________________________________<br
                      clear="none">
                    <a shape="rect" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"
                      rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a><br
                      clear="none">
                    <br clear="none">
                    <a shape="rect" href="http://www.fot-racing.com"
                      rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br
                      clear="none">
                    <br clear="none">
                    Donate: <a shape="rect"
                      href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"
                      rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br
                      clear="none">
                    Archive: <a shape="rect"
                      href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"
                      rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br
                      clear="none">
                    Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape="rect"
                      href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1@aol.com"
                      rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1@aol.com</a><br
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                </div>
              </div>
              <div class="ydpd07ec044yqt4050296548"
                id="ydpd07ec044yqt54160">_______________________________________________<br
                  clear="none">
                <a shape="rect" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"
                  rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a><br
                  clear="none">
                <br clear="none">
                <a shape="rect" href="http://www.fot-racing.com"
                  rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br
                  clear="none">
                <br clear="none">
                Donate: <a shape="rect"
                  href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="nofollow"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br
                  clear="none">
                Archive: <a shape="rect"
                  href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"
                  rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br
                  clear="none">
                Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape="rect"
                  href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jwheeler1947@yahoo.com"
                  rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jwheeler1947@yahoo.com</a><br
                  clear="none">
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            </div>
          </div>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>

Donate: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>
Unsubscribe/Manage: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel@pobox.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel@pobox.com</a>


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