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I certainly never got to the level of Jack and haven't played with
these cars as much as Glen, but during my brief racing career, I too
experimented a lot with gearing. I tried most of the combinations
Jack mentioned. My favorite was almost the same - close ratio TR box
with overdrive and a 4.55 rear. My choice was partly because my home
track, Hallett, is tight, well suited to a 4.55. I had the OD for
longer straights. We (my son Tom and I) ended up using the OD a lot
more than just the straights. Like someone else said, sometimes
you're too busy or it is faster or more convenient to shift the
overdrive. I always like to tell the story about the time a throw
out bearing went bad and I couldn't shift the tranny, so I ran
Hallett using just 3rd and 3rd-OD. I was off my best lap by only
about 1 second. However, there was one other time when we lost
overdrive and had to limit our speed on the long straights.<br>
<br>
A final word I will say. I think a lot of people shy away from an
overdrive because of "fear of the unknown". In reality they are
simpler than the transmission. Some people want to just buy a unit
and bolt it on. Regardless of the route you go, I think you're in
for a rebuild. I've never rebuilt a 5 speed, but I've done 3 speeds
and 4 speeds. If I extrapolate the differences in complexity, I
really don't want to rebuild a 5-speed.<br>
- Larry<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/19/2018 4:57 PM, Jack Wheeler via
Fot wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1229176934.7475844.1532037420166@mail.yahoo.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div>Hi Glen. I agree with most of your comments. I raced a
TR-4 in SCCA for 24 years, and used both close ratio, and
stock ratio gearboxes with, and without overdrive. I always
used the later housings (TR-4A - TR-6) and the "A" Type
overdrive, and I did all my own maintenance. Early in my
career, I always thought a straight 4 speed (without
overdrive) would be more efficient for racing, due to less
parasitic losses. When close ratio gears became legal
(about 1980), I thought this would be a big improvement over
the overdrive option. I had all 6 gear sets set up for my
IRS car, so I could gear to use either transmission option
at all the tracks I raced at.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, after years of experimenting at Road Atlanta,
during The Runoffs, I concluded that using a close ratio
overdrive gearbox with the 4.3 rear end gear was about 1
second per lap faster than using a straight 4 speed with the
3.7 rear end gear. The 4.3 rear gear gave me a more usable
second gear for some tight turns (like turn 7 at Atlanta)
than the 3.7 rear gear. I also tried the 4.1 rear gear with
the straight 4 Speed, but the overdrive option was still
faster.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I did less research at other tracks, but long tracks with
tight turns (like Road America) would certainly favor the
overdrive option. There may not be as much difference on
short, tighter tracks. But, numbers don't lie, and a second
a lap was worth it to me, to learn about building and
maintaining overdrives, with high pump pressure for quicker
shifting. And, I found them to be very reliable
mechanically. The only problems I ever had were electrical.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Take it for what it's worth, but that's my story, and I'm
stickin' to it!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jack<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ydpd07ec044yahoo_quoted_2171699424"
class="ydpd07ec044yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Thursday, July 19, 2018, 5:30:21 PM EDT, fubog1 via
Fot <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"><fot@autox.team.net></a> wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
color="black">
</font>
<div> <font size="2">In all fairness to the
conversion advocates, in spite of the benefit of
both intermediate gearing & the extra top gear
with the O/D unit, there are some downsides to the
O/D.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">First, it's getting hard to find
good units, a lot of what I run into is junk.
These have been in high demand since forever, I've
bought many junk TRs just for the overdrives.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">As Larry pointed out, there are
alternatives, ie Volvo, but then you have to mod
it to suit.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Unless you find a guaranteed
plug-and-play TR box & O/D assembly, you'll
most likely be having to go through the gearbox as
well, and certainly if you're converting a
standard gearbox to overdrive cuz' the mainshaft
is different.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">That leads to another problem,
parts availability for overdrive parts is a bit
limited, especially some of the early A-type
stuff, and as is normal these days, quality is
always a big concern.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Then if you have a rebuildable
unit, and all of the parts, it has to be properly
rebuilt, by the book.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">It's a fairly labor-intensive job
and requires some degree of mechanical finesse.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2">If you have to pay someone to do
the entire job, the cost could easily get up there
to the point where a conversion gets more
attractive.<br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2">There are also a few other
negatives, the TR box & O/D unit may weigh
more than some alternative units, there is some
very slight power loss with the O/D, and some
replacements may have better ratios available.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Having said (typed) this, for a
street car, a later TR-6 box, with the 17 tooth
laygear, better 1st ratio & much-improved 2nd
mainshaft gear, with a J-type on the back of it is
hard to improve on.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">For racing, late 6 box with a set
of close ratio gears & a "big piston" A-type
works well.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2">I see both side of the argument
but personally I like the TRs as TRs, iff'n in
doesn't say Stanpart on it, I'm not interested
(grin).<br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Glen<br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div> <br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,
helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">-----Original
Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Larry Young via Fot <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"><fot@autox.team.net></a><br
clear="none">
To: fot <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"><fot@autox.team.net></a><br clear="none">
Sent: Thu, Jul 19, 2018 12:32 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] best gearbox for TR6<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854yqt4050296548"
id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854yqt20748">
<div
id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854AOLMsgPart_1.2_d6df0125-c4e5-4c26-884e-b81f2758b4d0">
<div
class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolReplacedBody">
Yeah, Glen is right. I should have shut up. I
did a cost comparison a few years ago. Someone
was making a Ford 5 speed conversion also. The
cost was more or less the same, but of course,
it depends on how much you are going to do
yourself. I have heard the Toyota boxes are
getting scarce also ($550 seems like a lot).
Quantum Mechanics does (or did) a turnkey A or
J type overdrive. He has everything you need
to convert a Volvo J-type to any of the TR
series. I've helped a couple of guys do this
conversion. Volvo's from the 80's are
relatively unloved, so a couple years ago I
could find the Volvo J-types on Ebay for $150.
Of course, buying the Volvo overdrive or a
Toyota 5 speed is just the tip of the iceberg.
If you want a turnkey deal that you install,
you're probably looking at $2500 - $3000
regardless of the route you go. If you do
everything yourself, you can probably get by
for half that.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I've had my TR250 from new and didn't have an
overdrive until 5 years ago. I did a 7,000
mile road trip in it a couple of years ago and
found all 7 speeds to be useful. Even 2nd OD
was nice when stuck behind an RV going up a
mountain pass.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Like I said, I should have kept quiet, but my
point is that I think you will find the cost
similar regardless of the direction you go. It
really boils down to what you prefer.<br
clear="none">
- Larry<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div
class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-cite-prefix">On
7/19/2018 7:43 AM, Bill Tobin via Fot wrote:<br
clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>I dunno larry, I got my conversion from
Eaglegate, who was also from New Mexico,
and it bolted in. Plug and play. Works
great, shifts smoothly, and (so far!)
reliable.</div>
<div>Me being me, at the time, '13 I think,
I picked up two spare transmissions.
Celica W58. For about $175 each. A friend
with a wrecking yard looked them up
yesterday: around $550. No, they are not
for sale!</div>
<div>I believe a guy in Kansas City took
over Eaglegate. If anyone is interested, I
could look it up.</div>
<div>Cheers, Bill<br clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div
class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-cite-prefix">On
7/18/2018 11:56 PM, Larry Young via Fot
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote> I'd rather have an A-type (or
even a J) overdrive - 7 gears, easier to
shift, easier to install, probably less
expensive - What's not to like? Keep the
wife definitely.<br clear="none">
- Larry<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div
class="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_moz-cite-prefix">On
7/14/2018 4:13 PM, dustin nicholson via
Fot wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote> Is the HVDA conversion kit
for the Toyota 5 speed still available
since Herman’s passing?
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Dusty <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div
id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_AppleMailSignature">Sent
from my iPhone</div>
<div><br clear="none">
On Jul 12, 2018, at 8:05 PM, Bobby
Whitehead via Fot <<a
shape="rect"
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times
new roman, new york, times,
serif;font-size:13px;">
<div
id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1531450952573_4207">My
wife is trying to convince me
to keep our 1971 TR6 we've
owned for 26 years...mhhhh....
I told her if we did I needed
an overdrive or 5th
gear...what's the best
conversion?</div>
<div
id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1531450952573_4268"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="ydpd07ec044yiv6156230854aolmail_yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1531450952573_4269">Bobby
Whitehead</div>
<div>Jester's Racing<br
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</div>
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