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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the old clamshell TR3 rotors have
pads with significantly larger area. I kept the old calipers for
that reason. Newer isn't always better.<br>
- Larry<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/12/2018 8:56 AM, John H. Hasty via
Fot wrote:<br>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">I was
wondering about exactly this. The 6 rotor is 10.5” and the
3 rotor is 11”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ashley Page
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:apage@prosystembrakes.com">mailto:apage@prosystembrakes.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John H. Hasty <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jhasty@mhc-law.com"><jhasty@mhc-law.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com">timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] FW: brake pad and rotor
discovery and update<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div id="compose-container">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As far as braking effect it’s
simple math. Assuming the master cylinder, pad
compound and rotors are not changed then the calipers
with the largest dia pistons will, for a given pedal
effort, generate more clamping force. If you care to
to go to extremes then you would also factor in the
distance from the axle center to the CG of the pad
friction which is the “friction radius” - but that’s
picking the fly poop out of the pepper for what you
are doing. <span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Other considerations: <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Assuming the TR6 caliper will bolt
up to the TR3 knuckle, you would need to make sure the
rotor path through the caliper would accept the bigger
rotor- likely would but should be checked. At some
point a rotor with larger dia than the caliper is
designed for will touch the rotor path at the ends of
the caliper (to small of rotor will touch in the path
next to the pad opening). In both those extremes the
pads typically won’t fit either.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Another issue to check is rotor
thickness. If the TR3 rotor is thinner then make sure
as the pads wear that a caliper piston can’t come out
of the caliper.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Also check the pad to make sure
it’s annulus is not larger than the TR3 rotor. You
don’t want overhang or under hang of friction
material. Also you want the friction to cover the
rotor with very little unused swept area of rotor ID
or OD. To much unused iron can be a problem also. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Get <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef"
moz-do-not-send="true">Outlook for iOS</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Wed, Jul
11, 2018 at 8:23 PM -0400, "John H. Hasty" <<a
href="mailto:jhasty@mhc-law.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jhasty@mhc-law.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">What is
the effect of using TR6 calipers designed for use on
10.75 rotors on TR3 11” rotors ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jul 11, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Ashley Page via Fot <<a
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div id="compose-container">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As Glenn pointed out ID to
OD taper happens with some pads. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can also be a sign of loose
wheel bearings. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But probably as he
describes due to higher rubbing speed on OD. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">You can easily taper cut
the pads with a 4” diamond masonry blade from
just about any hardware or Lowe’s. You can do
it with any number of ways even a hacksaw but
anything but diamond will wear quickly<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Get <a
href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef"
moz-do-not-send="true">Outlook for iOS</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On
Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 2:08 PM -0400, "timmmurphh---
via Fot" <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a
href="mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2018 8:36
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'DAVE HOGYE' <<a
href="mailto:dlhogye@comcast.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dlhogye@comcast.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Fot] brake pad and
rotor discovery and update<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for this report. We
have had some issues with the Carbotech pads
on our TR4 at Blackhawk and the Kcup. We use
the CT2-XP10 compound. I will check our pad
to caliper slot clearance. Does anyone know
offhand of the slot on the 16P calipers on our
TR4 is the same as the TR3 at 3.095”?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tim Murphy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">#317 TR4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Fot <<a
href="mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>DAVE HOGYE via Fot<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 10, 2018 3:22
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Friends of Triumph <<a
href="mailto:Fot@autox.team.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">Fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Fot] brake pad and rotor
discovery and update<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">Hello
Friends,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">I
have been finding out quite a bit about the
unusual and developing front brake pad,
rotor and caliper issues that I have
discovered on my TR3.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">What
I found was that the Carbotech CT-57 pads
were causing the problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">The
supporting or backing plates of the pads had
been ground down at Carbotech, far under the
normal plate width that I measured in 4
other production pads that I have on hand.
Besides that, they were not ground down
squarely.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">This
allowed the piston to take tremendous side
load under braking causing the uneven and
diagonal wear pattern in the pads. This
also caused the rotor to contact the caliper
as the pads took on heavy uneven wear.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">The
slot in the TR6 caliper is 3.095" and the
four non-Carbotech pads sets have a plate
width of no less than 3.082". The Carbotech
plates have an out of square measurement of
3.030-3.050". That's as much as .065"
clearance in the caliper slot. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">The
plates have too much clearance. I found
that a maximum of .010" backing plate to
caliper slot clearance is more normal. One
set of pads have only .005" clearance. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">Furthermore,
the corners of the Carbotech plates and pads
were ground down far enough that the lower
end of the pads hardly made contact with the
caliper slot allowing more stress on the
caliper piston.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">I
have been going back and forth with
Carbotech on this matter and I will be
sending back the badly worn set along with a
brand set that have the same production
issues. I bought the two sets at the same
time last August. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">What
I found is that any backing plates that show
evidence of sanding or grinding marks should
be measured for proper clearance, but that
really, there should be no sanding or
grinding marks...ever.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">All
of the other pads I have show no evidence of
sanding or grinding marks. The previously
shaped friction pads are cleanly attached to
the backing plates and the backing plate is
revealed around the friction material. Only
the backing plate makes contact with the
caliper slot. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">It
looks like I have to find another race pad
supplier. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">Thoughts?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">Dave
H.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">831-234-4928</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>
Donate: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>
Unsubscribe/Manage: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel@pobox.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel@pobox.com</a>
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