<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>Makes sense. Subsequently, is compressed air a viable means of testing seals that normally run gear oil?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>On Mar 6, 2018, at 10:17 AM, Charly Mitchel <<a href="mailto:charly@mitchelplumbing.com">charly@mitchelplumbing.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="content-type">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I believe the answer is the water molecules are
larger than the air molecules, which makes them easier to pass through the
space. I think Gore-Tex work the same way, lets the fabric breathe, but
keeps the water out.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Not sure why I know this :)</font></div>
<div>Charly Mitchel<br>TR6 #44</div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="fot@autox.team.net" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">J Wagner via
Fot</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="fot@autox.team.net" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 06, 2018 8:03
AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Type A OD pressure
test</div>
<div><br></div>
<div></div>
<div>I’m almost embarrassed to chime in here as I have no expertise on the
inner workings of a transmission, but perhaps it’s more of a question
than an answer.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I’ve run a lot of PVC irrigation pipe in my day, particularly in the last
few years landscaping my house. I’ve noticed that whenever I turn on a
new system, the air compressed by the incoming water with force it’s way past
connections of threaded pipe, joined with teflon tape, and take a little water
with it. Just when I’m thinking that I’ve failed to tighten the pipe
enough, the leaking stops once all the air escapes. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I suppose it’s a fluid dynamics question. Will compressed air act
differently on seals than pressurized oil?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Maybe the escape of air is as meaningless as it has been in my
sprinklers?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>—Justin</div>
<div><br>On Mar 6, 2018, at 6:48 AM, M&M Hado via Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)">
<style>@font-face {
font-family: Helvetica;
}
@font-face {
font-family: Helvetica;
}
@font-face {
font-family: Calibri;
}
@font-face {
font-family: Tahoma;
}
@page WordSection1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; }
P.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
LI.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
DIV.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
A:link {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
A:visited {
COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
SPAN.EmailStyle17 {
FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal-reply
}
.MsoChpDefault {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-style-type: export-only
}
DIV.WordSection1 {
page: WordSection1
}
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Just a couple more
thoughts to add to the good suggestions already offered. I especially liked
Jack’s idea of hand-lapping in the aluminum seats with a ball welded to a
rod. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">I’m guessing that
most of the air you’re hearing is leaking around the outside of the
operating valve since air is much more likely to do so than the relatively
thick 90 weight oil. Just the fact that only 120 psi of air pressure
is enough to move the operating pistons tells me that the rest of your
system is relatively tight. The normal operating pressure after all is
about 400 psig so you have a lot of “fat” built into it.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">One thing that might
cause the operating pistons to move with a relatively small pressure is
having weak or incorrect springs pushing the cone clutch rearward. Be
sure you have the so-called “long” and “short” ones in the right
locations, It’s actually the coil bound length that determines which
is which. If you put a long one where a short one will be, it may bind
before reaching full movement, resulting in the cone clutch not reaching the
brake ring. Don’t ask me how I know this. To check this, I put
each spring on a threaded rod and run a nut down the rod until the coil
binds. Measure the length at that point and the long springs will be
about 3/8” longer than the short ones.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Also, the seating of
the balls on the aluminum seats in the casing is indeed important but it’s
also important to have a good seat between the ball and tip of the operating
valve. I had a D-type OD that was eating my lunch with low operating
pressure during engagement and the tip of the valve was nicked resulting in
a bad seal. Changing the valve solved the problem. The oil flow
is very small in the system so a leak of even the smallest area will drop
the pressure quite a bit.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Lastly, you
mentioned the “relief valve” and I’m not sure which valve you are referring
to since the pressure relief occurs when the accumulator piston moves enough
to uncover the relief holes back to the sump. Since you only had 120
psi, the accumulator piston would not have moved nearly enough to
“relieve.” I’m guessing you were referring to the operating
valve.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Mike
Hado<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Fot [<a href="mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net">mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>barry rosenberg via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March
6, 2018 5:31 AM<br><b>To:</b> Jack Wheeler; Greg Blake via
Fot<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Type A OD pressure
test<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
used to put the ball in a tap in down with a blunt punch. As the case is
aluminum and the ball hard steel, it made a very nice seat for itself. This
can be done without pulling the OD apart. Just pull the plug, spring and
little plunger.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1520335633478_5731">
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Barry<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">On
Monday, March 5, 2018 5:26 PM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div id="yiv8470877085">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi
Greg. Here is a tip for you. When I used to rebuild A-Type
overdrives, I would "lap in" the surface that the ball sits on. I had
a spare ball of the correct size, and I welded a small rod to it (about
3/16" diam.). Then I put a bit of valve grinding compound on the ball,
inserted it down into the hole, then turned it back and forth, thus lapping
the surface that the ball sits on. This is a tip that Hardy Prentice
gave me years ago, when we were both racing, and obviously the purpose was
to minimize any leakage past the ball. This may be to late in your
case, as you would have to do this while the unit is apart, so that you can
carefully clean all of the grinding compoound out of the housing after the
lapping. Maybe this will help you next time. Good
luck.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Jack
Wheeler<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div id="yiv8470877085ydp70470255yahoo_quoted_0759735189">
<div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">On
Monday, March 5, 2018, 12:12:29 AM EST, Greg Blake via Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">All
knowing FOT<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Attached
is a video of my Type A OD unit ready to bolt up to the transmission. I
decided to do a pressure test with 120psi of compressed air plumbed into the
operating vale port. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The
engagement seems to work well when I move the operating lever. But I am
concerned about the amount of air that can be heard leaking. I believe it is
going past the relief valve. Is this abnormal amount of
leaking?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
noticed upon tear down that the nonreturn valve had a 1/4" ball instead of
the 5/16" this unit should have had. The test you see in the video is with a
new 5/16" ball. I am sure on a previous rebuild someone mistakenly used the
later style 1/4". <o:p></o:p></span></p></div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br><br>Just
wanted opinions before I buttoned this up to the transmission for some bench
testing. <br><br>Thanks. <br><br>Greg<br><br>Sent from my
iPhone_______________________________________________<br><a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br><br><a href="http://www.fot-racing.com/" target="_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums: <a href="http://www.team.net/forums" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jwheeler1947@yahoo.com" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jwheeler1947@yahoo.com</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">_______________________________________________<br><a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a><br><br><a href="http://www.fot-racingcom/" target="_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums: <a href="http://www.team.net/forums" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/britcars@bellsouth.net" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/britcars@bellsouth.net</a><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span><a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a></span><br><span></span><br><span><a href="http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate:
<a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive:
<a href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span>Forums:
<a href="http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage:
<a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/4msonset@gmail.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/4msonset@gmail.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote>
<p>
</p><hr>
<p></p>_______________________________________________<br><a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a><br><br><a href="http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate:
<a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:
<a href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums:
<a href="http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:
<a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/charly@mitchelplumbing.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/charly@mitchelplumbing.com</a><br><br><br></blockquote>
</div></blockquote></body></html>