<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=content-type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588"></HEAD>
<BODY dir=auto bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Not to me it isn't, it's not really proving
anything. Can't tell it it's leaking past seals.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Charly Mitchel<BR>TR6 #44</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=4msonset@gmail.com href="mailto:4msonset@gmail.com">J Wagner</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=charly@mitchelplumbing.com
href="mailto:charly@mitchelplumbing.com">Charly Mitchel</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=fot@autox.team.net
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 06, 2018 11:40
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Type A OD pressure
test</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Makes sense. Subsequently, is compressed air a viable means of
testing seals that normally run gear oil?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Mar 6, 2018, at 10:17 AM, Charly Mitchel <<A
href="mailto:charly@mitchelplumbing.com">charly@mitchelplumbing.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I believe the answer is the water molecules are
larger than the air molecules, which makes them easier to pass through the
space. I think Gore-Tex work the same way, lets the fabric breathe,
but keeps the water out.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Not sure why I know this :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Charly Mitchel<BR>TR6 #44</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fot@autox.team.net href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">J Wagner via
Fot</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=fot@autox.team.net
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 06, 2018 8:03
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Type A OD pressure
test</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I’m almost embarrassed to chime in here as I have no expertise on the
inner workings of a transmission, but perhaps it’s more of a
question than an answer.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I’ve run a lot of PVC irrigation pipe in my day, particularly in the
last few years landscaping my house. I’ve noticed that whenever I
turn on a new system, the air compressed by the incoming water with force
it’s way past connections of threaded pipe, joined with teflon tape, and
take a little water with it. Just when I’m thinking that I’ve failed
to tighten the pipe enough, the leaking stops once all the air
escapes. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I suppose it’s a fluid dynamics question. Will compressed air
act differently on seals than pressurized oil?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Maybe the escape of air is as meaningless as it has been in my
sprinklers?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>—Justin</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Mar 6, 2018, at 6:48 AM, M&M Hado via Fot <<A
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<META name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)">
<STYLE>@font-face {
font-family: Helvetica;
}
@font-face {
font-family: Helvetica;
}
@font-face {
font-family: Calibri;
}
@font-face {
font-family: Tahoma;
}
@page WordSection1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; }
P.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
LI.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
DIV.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
A:link {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
A:visited {
COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
SPAN.EmailStyle17 {
FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal-reply
}
.MsoChpDefault {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-style-type: export-only
}
DIV.WordSection1 {
page: WordSection1
}
</STYLE>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Greg,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Just a couple
more thoughts to add to the good suggestions already offered. I
especially liked Jack’s idea of hand-lapping in the aluminum seats with
a ball welded to a rod. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">I’m guessing
that most of the air you’re hearing is leaking around the outside of the
operating valve since air is much more likely to do so than the
relatively thick 90 weight oil. Just the fact that only 120 psi of
air pressure is enough to move the operating pistons tells me that the
rest of your system is relatively tight. The normal operating
pressure after all is about 400 psig so you have a lot of “fat” built
into it. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">One thing that
might cause the operating pistons to move with a relatively small
pressure is having weak or incorrect springs pushing the cone clutch
rearward. Be sure you have the so-called “long” and “short” ones
in the right locations, It’s actually the coil bound length that
determines which is which. If you put a long one where a short one
will be, it may bind before reaching full movement, resulting in the
cone clutch not reaching the brake ring. Don’t ask me how I know
this. To check this, I put each spring on a threaded rod and run a
nut down the rod until the coil binds. Measure the length at that
point and the long springs will be about 3/8” longer than the short
ones.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Also, the
seating of the balls on the aluminum seats in the casing is indeed
important but it’s also important to have a good seat between the ball
and tip of the operating valve. I had a D-type OD that was eating
my lunch with low operating pressure during engagement and the tip of
the valve was nicked resulting in a bad seal. Changing the valve
solved the problem. The oil flow is very small in the system so a
leak of even the smallest area will drop the pressure quite a
bit.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Lastly, you
mentioned the “relief valve” and I’m not sure which valve you are
referring to since the pressure relief occurs when the accumulator
piston moves enough to uncover the relief holes back to the sump.
Since you only had 120 psi, the accumulator piston would not have moved
nearly enough to “relieve.” I’m guessing you were referring to the
operating valve.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Mike
Hado<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Fot [<A
href="mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net">mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>barry rosenberg via Fot<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday,
March 6, 2018 5:31 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Jack Wheeler; Greg Blake via
Fot<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Type A OD pressure
test<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
used to put the ball in a tap in down with a blunt punch. As the case is
aluminum and the ball hard steel, it made a very nice seat for itself.
This can be done without pulling the OD apart. Just pull the plug,
spring and little plunger.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1520335633478_5731>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Barry<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">On
Monday, March 5, 2018 5:26 PM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <<A
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</A>>
wrote:</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yiv8470877085>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi
Greg. Here is a tip for you. When I used to rebuild A-Type
overdrives, I would "lap in" the surface that the ball sits on. I
had a spare ball of the correct size, and I welded a small rod to it
(about 3/16" diam.). Then I put a bit of valve grinding compound
on the ball, inserted it down into the hole, then turned it back and
forth, thus lapping the surface that the ball sits on. This is a
tip that Hardy Prentice gave me years ago, when we were both racing, and
obviously the purpose was to minimize any leakage past the ball.
This may be to late in your case, as you would have to do this while the
unit is apart, so that you can carefully clean all of the grinding
compoound out of the housing after the lapping. Maybe this will
help you next time. Good luck.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Jack
Wheeler<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv8470877085ydp70470255yahoo_quoted_0759735189>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">On
Monday, March 5, 2018, 12:12:29 AM EST, Greg Blake via Fot <<A
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</A>> wrote:
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">All
knowing FOT<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Attached
is a video of my Type A OD unit ready to bolt up to the transmission. I
decided to do a pressure test with 120psi of compressed air plumbed into
the operating vale port. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The
engagement seems to work well when I move the operating lever. But I am
concerned about the amount of air that can be heard leaking. I believe
it is going past the relief valve. Is this abnormal amount of
leaking?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
noticed upon tear down that the nonreturn valve had a 1/4" ball instead
of the 5/16" this unit should have had. The test you see in the video is
with a new 5/16" ball. I am sure on a previous rebuild someone
mistakenly used the later style 1/4". <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: #26282a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><BR>Just
wanted opinions before I buttoned this up to the transmission for some
bench testing. <BR><BR>Thanks. <BR><BR>Greg<BR><BR>Sent from my
iPhone_______________________________________________<BR><A
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"
target=_blank>fot@autox.team.net</A><BR><BR><A
href="http://www.fot-racing.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.fot-racing.com</A><BR><BR>Donate: <A
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"
target=_blank>http://www.team.net/donate.html</A><BR>Archive: <A
href="http://www.team.net/archive"
target=_blank>http://www.team.net/archive</A><BR>Forums: <A
href="http://www.team.net/forums"
target=_blank>http://www.team.net/forums</A><BR>Unsubscribe/Manage: <A
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jwheeler1947@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jwheeler1947@yahoo.com</A><BR><BR><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">_______________________________________________<BR><A
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</A><BR><BR><A
href="http://www.fot-racingcom/"
target=_blank>http://www.fot-racing.com</A><BR><BR>Donate: <A
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"
target=_blank>http://www.team.net/donate.html</A><BR>Archive: <A
href="http://www.team.net/archive"
target=_blank>http://www.team.net/archive</A><BR>Forums: <A
href="http://www.team.net/forums"
target=_blank>http://www.team.net/forums</A><BR>Unsubscribe/Manage: <A
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/britcars@bellsouth.net"
target=_blank>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/britcars@bellsouth.net</A><BR><BR><BR><BR><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><SPAN>_______________________________________________</SPAN><BR><SPAN><A
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN></SPAN><BR><SPAN><A
href="http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN></SPAN><BR><SPAN>Donate:
<A
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN>Archive:
<A
href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN>Forums:
<A
href="http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN>Unsubscribe/Manage:
<A
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/4msonset@gmail.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/4msonset@gmail.com</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN></SPAN><BR><SPAN></SPAN><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P></P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR><A
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</A><BR><BR><A
href="http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</A><BR><BR>Donate:
<A
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</A><BR>Archive:
<A
href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</A><BR>Forums:
<A
href="http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</A><BR>Unsubscribe/Manage:
<A
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/charly@mitchelplumbing.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/charly@mitchelplumbing.com</A><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>