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    Pat,<br>
    You should be able to send the cam back if it doesn't match the
    specs. Any cam should be within a few thousands of the stated lift.
    That is one reason I would thoroughly degree a cam before installing
    it. Otherwise, you are left with "Trust Me". Most of the time, it is
    the seat-to-seat duration which is off, usually greater than spec
    and often 10 degrees or more. 0.050 numbers are more accurate, but
    you rarely get those from UK grinders.<br>
    <br>
    Most people treat the cam card as if it is sacred, but the numbers
    are just educated guesses. The conventional wisdom is that the
    advance should be increased at longer durations. This keeps the most
    important timing event, intake closing, from getting too far out of
    whack. A 110 intake center would be 0 advance if the lobe separation
    is 110, because separation is in cam degrees and the events are in
    crank degrees. If the duration is greater than stock, I would set
    the intake a few degrees less than 110. I have a couple of pages at
    my website that discuss degreeing cams and what to do when you have
    no cam card - <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tildentechnologies.com/Cams/Tips_Takes.html">http://tildentechnologies.com/Cams/Tips_Takes.html</a><br>
     - Larry Young<br>
     <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/25/2017 10:25 PM,
      patrickmannion1--- via Fot wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:SCT91w03L1ATEnU01CTAKH">
      <div>Hi Duncan, John and all,</div>
      <div>I sent the proper information to Newmans in June and again
        this week but haven't had any response.I was wrong when I posted
        the lift figure, on Monday. When I didn't get a response from
        Newman in June with accurate timing events I through my notes in
        a box and misread them the other night, the lift was actually
        .015" less than specified in lift at cam which would be .022"
        less lift at the valve.</div>
      <div>The total lift, rise figure at TDC, and the figure at which
        max rise should occur did not match what their website
        specified. The two sentence response from them was like a
        politician saying "trust me", it only stated</div>
      <pre>"The best way to set the camshaft is that you have maximum valve lift on the
inlet 110° after top dead centre" with no other information to second verify events</pre>
      <div>In the past when we've ever had a figure on a timing card
        that didn't match our cam grinder would get back and be able to
        say, check timing events at this lift and verify by checking
        lobe centers and he would give you ways to verify that all was
        correct. His cams always worked great.</div>
      <div>I have three different types of cams, I'm going to plot and
        graph them later in the week but will just use a camshaft from
        now on from a source I trust.</div>
      <div>thanks for you responses</div>
      <div>Pat Mannion, Santa Cruz<br>
        <br>
        ---------- Original Message ----------<br>
        From: Duncan Charlton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com"><duncan.charlton54@gmail.com></a><br>
        To: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"><fot@autox.team.net></a><br>
        Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:patrickmannion1@netzero.com">patrickmannion1@netzero.com</a><br>
        Subject: Re: [Fot] Re TR4 camshafts<br>
        Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:50:56 -0500<br>
        <br>
        <p>Hi Patrick,</p>
        <div class=""> </div>
        <div class="">You didn’t say whether you determined how many
          degrees of advance/retard you’re putting in by setting max
          lift at 110˚ ATDC.  Confirming that figure ought to give you
          some confidence that what they’re telling you is in the
          ballpark.  2 to 4 degrees advance seems appropriate for a
          street engine.</div>
        <div class=""> </div>
        <div class="">Since you've been in the business for a while
          (I’ve heard your name in Morgan circles for many years) I
          assume you already have the tools and knowledge to do this, so
          I won’t go into a long-winded description of the process, but
          for those reading this who haven’t done this before:  put a
          degree wheel on the crank, zero it at true TDC and measure
          lift at the cam or at the valve using a dial indicator,
          starting a few degrees before max lift and ending a few
          degrees after max lift to be sure you’ve found mean maximum
          lift.  Do this for both intake and exhaust and calculate the
          midpoint between those two mean maximum lift points.  That
          gives you the cam's “zero” point.  Decide whether to advance
          or retard a few degrees from zero.  Advancing moves torque
          lower down on the rpm scale (but also decreases intake valve
          to piston clearance).  I find I have to plot this on paper so
          I can make sense of it and to make sure I don’t move the the
          wrong direction in altering the valve timing.</div>
        <div class=""> </div>
        <div class="">Newman overstated lift by 34%.  Wow.</div>
        <div class=""> </div>
        <div class="">Duncan</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
          <div>
            <blockquote class="">
              <div class="">On Oct 23, 2017, at 2:48 PM, John Styduhar
                via Fot <<a class="" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
                wrote:</div>
              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <div class="">
                <div class="" dir="ltr">
                  <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">​Follow
                    the instructions for setting the cam and you will be
                    fine.  An adjustable cam sprocket will make the job
                    easier.  </div>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
                  <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 11:54
                    AM, riverside--- via Fot <span class="" dir="ltr"><<a
                        class="" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>></span>
                    wrote:<br class="">
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0
                      .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left:
                      1ex;">Yikes!   I  have always had great success
                      with Dema's cams.<br class="">
                      I hope his shop survived the fires.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      art de armond<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      -----Original Message----- From:
                      patrickmannion1--- via Fot<br class="">
                      Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 5:11 PM<br
                        class="">
                      To: <a class="" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a><br
                        class="">
                      Subject: [Fot] Re TR4 camshafts<span class=""><br
                          class="">
                        <br class="">
                        Hello all,<br class="">
                        I have always nearly always built Triumph TR4
                        engines with cams from Dema Elgin Superlobes in
                        Santa Rosa. Occasionally I had installed other
                        cams supplied by customers that had a valid
                        timing card supplied. I decided with the English
                        pound being low vs the Dollar I would try the
                        PH1 Cam from Newman Cams in England. I had heard
                        good things about their PH1 cam as being a great
                        street cam.<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        When installing the cam. Information on there
                        website stated peak cam lift was .295" (it is
                        only .220") resulting in a lift at the valve
                        being .120" less than stated. Starting off with"
                        incorrect lift figure all valve event figures on
                        the website are wrong. After several emails I
                        got a two sentence email saying ,set Intake for
                        max lift at 110 degrees ATDC and the cam will
                        work,<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        After doing lots of engine modifications I would
                        like a more scientific answer than the cam will
                        work. Has anyone used this cam or a Newman cam
                        before, or found that the information supplied
                        by Newman was incorrect. I hate to eat the cost
                        of the camshafts I bought or incur the cost of
                        sending them back to England, but I would have
                        no confidence in using a camshaft without having
                        a correct timing card for the camshaft. -<br
                          class="">
                        thanks<br class="">
                        Pat Mannion<br class="">
                        Santa Cruz California<br class="">
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